

==========

Subject: valeria?

From: cbaljs@med.unc.edu (Linda Stevenson)

Date: 31 Oct 1993 23:50:25 GMT

--------

Could anyone give me more information on this.  How do you make

a tinture of it. (I've heard that you have to use it with

caution- maybe one or two drops?)



where is the plant grown.  What parts do you use etc.



I was wondering about using it for headaches and also as

a sleeping aid.



thanks











==========

Subject: Dry skin

From: rharvey@charlie.usd.edu

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 14:11:42 GMT

--------

I have found that udder balm, which is used to soften cows' udders,

works wonderfully.  You can get it at any farm-supply store, or I

have an address where you can mail-order it for around five dollars.

It's a thick, gloppy, sticky stuff, so not everyone likes it, but it

works for me.  The label says "For Veterinary Use Only"  but members

of my family have been using it for close to a hundred years with no

harm done.  Just don't eat it!!!  :)



---Renee

   rharvey@charlie.usd.edu









==========

Subject: Re: Dry skin

From: sba@austin.ibm.com (Shirley Ackerman)

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 17:05:41 GMT

--------



Bag Balm is also available by mail from the Vermont Country Store. 

I don't know the address - but I remember seeing it in a recent 

catalog.       

I also used it when I was growning up - We always had it on hand...



Shirley A. 

-- 

Shirley Ackerman         | Internet: sba@austin.ibm.com

AIX Software Support     | VNET: shirleya@ausvm6

Austin, TX               | 1-512-823-9315

My opinions are mine, not my employers.









==========

Subject: Re: Dry skin

From: bk131@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Paquette)

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 19:33:55 GMT

--------



Hi - Recently I have noticed a couple of requests for dry skin cures.  I

had trouble with really dry skin around my nose.  It was red, peeling and

VERY unhappy.  It also stung with most creams and moisturizers I tried. 

It was driving me crazy.  Finally I found a cure at the local health food

store - CamoCare Soothing Cream.  CamoCare is a german line of beauty

products with camomile and a fwe other friendly ingredients.  They have

astringents, moisturizers and other stuff.  The soothing cream is for

severely dry skin.  I used to put it on in the morning, mid-day and at

night (lots at night to let it soak in).  I managed to get rid of my

red-nose without stinging or bringing on acne from over moisturizing.  I

hope this helps.



Carlene



P.S. - The product is distributed by ABKIT Inc., 1160 Park Avenue, New

York, NY, 10128.  If you can't find it you could try contacting them to

find the nearest distributor.



Also - these CamoCare products were studied in Germany for their wrinkle

reducing action and found to be very good.











==========

Subject: pumkin seeds

From: tlindgre@cvbnet.prime.com (Terence Lindgren x5360 5-2)

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 16:40:37 GMT

--------



	Can anyone tell me what pumkin seeds are good for?









==========

Subject: re: pumkin seeds

From: 869634@academic.stu.StThomasU.ca (AIRD     MELANIE DAWN)

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:55:12 GMT

--------

they can be used in cookies like hermits.  they can also be baked till 

golden, with a little salt, onion, or garlic powder.

somehow, i don't think that that's what you are looking for.









==========

Subject: re: pumkin seeds

From: jagordon@agsm.ucla.edu

Date: 3 Nov 1993 17:10:08 GMT

--------



In article <CFtnnp.C3L@cvbnet.CV.COM> tlindgre@cvbnet.prime.com (Terence Lindgren x5360 5-2) writes:

>

>	Can anyone tell me what pumkin seeds are good for?



They are pretty essential for growing pumpkins, among other things.









==========

Subject: Re: pumkin seeds

From: rharvey@charlie.usd.edu

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 20:49:38 GMT

--------

In article <CFtnnp.C3L@cvbnet.CV.COM>, tlindgre@cvbnet.prime.com (Terence Lindgren x5360 5-2) writes:

>



>	Can anyone tell me what pumkin seeds are good for?



According to _The New Age Herbalist_ by Richard Mabey, pumpkin seeds are good

for people with acne.  This is because they are rich in zinc, which helps

facilitate absorbtion of vitamin A, which Mabey says scientists have 

demonstrated to be helpful for acne.  He does not name a study or a source.



He also mentions pumpkin seeds for enlargement of the prostate gland, because

of the zinc, and also because they contain a "male hormone-type component".



I hope this is helpful.



---Renee

   rharvey@charlie.usd.edu











==========

Subject: Re: pumkin seeds

From: jeq@lachman.com (Jonathan E. Quist)

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 20:45:51 GMT

--------

In article <CFtnnp.C3L@cvbnet.CV.COM> tlindgre@cvbnet.prime.com (Terence Lindgren x5360 5-2) writes:

>

>	Can anyone tell me what pumkin seeds are good for?





Er, growing pumpkins?



Slightly more seriously, though, I find them tasty enough

toasted and lightly salted that I don't need them to be

good for anything but snacking... :')





-- 

Jonathan E. Quist        jeq@lachman.com       Lachman Technology, Incorporated

DoD #094, EGFC #002, KotPP, KotCF '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep"   Naperville, IL

 __       "I love Boris Yeltsin.  He's kind of like Ted Baxter's

 \/   chubby older brother."  - WBEZ (Chicago) personality Aaron Freeman









==========

Subject: Re: pumkin seeds

From: rossr@efn.org (Ross Randrup)

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 06:47:14 GMT

--------

In <CFtnnp.C3L@cvbnet.CV.COM> tlindgre@cvbnet.prime.com (Terence Lindgren x5360 5-2) writes:





>	Can anyone tell me what pumkin seeds are good for?



Here's some information from "The Male Herbal" by James Green



Pumpkin seeds contain zinc



Zinc is essential to testosterone production and sexual

development in the male. 



* zinc is necessary for healthy skin and hair



* zinc is important in healing damaged heart tissue



* you lose zinc in semen



* zinc deficiency is indicated as a causative factor in

atherosclerosis and is implicated with hypertension



They also contain linoleic acid(Vitamin F) which is important for

repiration of internal organs and to help decongest the prostate

gland and lessen residual urine.





I really like the book, check it out!









==========

Subject: Re: Depressant effects of scullcap (skullcap)?

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 21:54:39 GMT

--------

In article <2asdti$id4@agate.berkeley.edu> Eric J. Korpela,

korpela@mofo.ssl.berkeley.edu writes:

> These items were given to me without reference, however.

> Can anyone give me any hard references to the medicinal

> and/or harmful effects of scullcap?



My latest reference (copyright 1991) states plainly that there are no reports

of toxicity from skullcap infusions, but that *large amounts* can cause

confusion,

giddiness, twitching, and possibly convulsions.  



It's possible that your informant has been reading FDA stuff.  The FDA put

skullcap

on its black list in 1943 and has, at least to my knowledge, neither done

research

of its own nor accepted published reports from Europe and Japan since that

time.

At the risk of beginning another discussion, this is another illustration of

the fact that the FDA is *not* a scientific institution:  it is a governmental

body and, as such, largely incapable of changing once it has made up its mind.



Baird

__

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 1 Nov 1993 14:58 PST

--------

In article <2b02nl$5du@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes...

#In article <30OCT199315062518@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:

#=In article <2aue4e$es4@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes...

#=



   [stuff deleted]



#=  Cripes, Carl, don't you think that I am qualified to set up a test and

#= then judge the results myself??

# 

#Depends on the size of the effect, now doesn't it?  Surely you understand that

#for a remedy with a small effect, you've got to run quite a few trials before

#you can conclude anything?  Just how many friends do you have who are willing

#to forego treatment that's been demonstrated to be effective in order to see

#whether a folk remedy has SOME effect?



  I agree.  I do not want to make or arrange for any "friends" to suffer

 on my account, of course.  I do want them to have the right to make an

 informed choice.  And if they should choose to do intelligent experimenting,

 well, that is their choice.  Taking drugs from the Doctor is a choice and

 a gamble as well, especailly when taking a new drug, as I am sure you will

 acknowledge.  Crossing the street is a risk, as is driving a car.  But if

 I had the power, would I buy my friends new cars?  You bet.



   Now you are going to tell me that making an informed choice requires

 information, and with that I agree.  You need the best information which

 is available.  Often Western Medicine has no information, just because they

 don't have the results of one or more of their famous sacred double-blind

 studies, and some hold this to mean that therefore nobody else has any useful

 information either.  I say Balderdash!



# 

#= When I had allergy problems the Doctors

#= told me what to do and then they expected me to do the experiments and

#= to take the data and to form my own conclusions.  They would review my

#= data, if they wanted, and rubberstamp my conclusions.  Cheap lab work, eh?

# 

#That's one way of looking at it.  Of course, if that's how you want to view it,

#I sincerely hope that you're also looking for a treatment for your blindness. 

                                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



   Ouch. ;-)



#You see, the tests that they want you to do have been calibrated against rather

#sizeable populations.  The medical community's actually invested quite a bit of

#effort in, e.g., determining just what level of dosage one needs to administer

#in the skin tests in order to diagnose a clinically significant response to the

#putative allergen.

# 



   The Allergy Specialists tell me that the skin tests are only good as

 a pointer, and the accurate Data that I collect would be superior.  Also,

 the skin tests do not show food allergies correctly.  What they show is, of

 course, skin allergies, and not necessarily nasal, lung or g.i. allergies.

 I don't have any evidence which would make me disagree with this.



#=  Incidentally, some warts go away and some don't.  If I had several warts

#= which I wanted to get rid of, I would try the medication on SOME of them

#= and hold the others back to see if there were any differences.

# 



#Sorry, but you're overlooking a minor detail.  You see, hypnosis appears to

#have an effect on warts.  Yup.  Hypnotize someone, convince him under hypnosis

#that the warts are going to go away, and they go away.  Yeah, the effect size

#is small, and no, this particular treatment hasn't been rigorously tested (but,

#hey!  it's got as much support for it as do many folk remedies!





  So can you say a few hypnotic words to me to make my warts go away?  ;-)



  More seriously, I am interested in this topic of what would seem to

 me to be an extreme form of the placebo effect.  Tell me more, please.





#                                                                If you're

#gonna accept the folk remedies without question, then you've got to accept the

#hypnotic cure for warts!).  Now, given that (admittedly flimsy) evidence in

#support of one's attitude toward one's warts being able to cure them, the

#experiment you propose is flawed:  You know which warts you think should go

#away soonest.  Is it the remedy you're using or you expectation of the

#disappearance of warts that cures them?  Difficult question, eh?  Well, it

#turns out the scientific community addressed this issue quite some time ago. 

#They even invented a technique to deal with it.  It's called the "double blind

#study."  Here's how it works:  Randomly divide the patients into two groups. 

#One group gets a placebo treatment, which is made to look as much as possible

#like the treatment under study.  The other group gets the real treatment.  Now,

#here's the important part:  Neither the doctor nor the patient knows whether

#the patient's getting the placebo or the real treatment!  The patient getting

#the real treatment has no better reason to believe that his warts will be cured

#than does the patient getting the placebo!  And (and this is important, and is

#the reason such studies are called "double-blind") the doctor doesn't have any

#reason to expect more cures in one group than in another (since he doesn't know

#who's in which group). so he can't give any patients clues as to whether

#they're "supposed" to get well or not!  Nifty, eh?  Rules out virtually all

#common biases.  But don't take my word for it.  If you think you've discovered

#some hidden way that such an experiment can be biased, publish it!  You could

#end up receiving the Nobel Prize in Medicine! (but don't forget to mention the

#fact that I suggested it to you;  I'd kind of like to meet the monarch of

#Sweden, myself).



   Carl, I would be glad to give your suggestion all the publication it

 deserves. :-)   Gee this is fun....   Nice to have you over here in

 alt.folklore.herbs as well (I suppose this is a result of the crossposting,

 and I have changed the title to show that we have drifted away from the

 Birth Control thread).



   I understand the double-blind system.  Trouble is, it's kinda hard

 to do yourself.  When I explore some new treatment, I approach it with

 an open, in fact skeptical, mind.  I try to be aware of the placebo effect

 and "auto-hypnosis", if that is what you would call it.  I do the tests

 many times under different circumstances, trying not to have too many

 variables change at once (this would cloud the results and possibly 

 invalidate the tests.  Then I keep a running average of the effects so

 as to have something to go on in making future decisions.  Now I realize

 that this technique has built into it the seeds of bias, but a fellow cannot

 conduct his life as a double-blind experiment forever.  There comes a time

 to analyze the data and a time to use it to make daily decisions.  Why

 not conduct a double-blind experiment on yourself to see if 30 chocolate

 bars every day is good for you?  You'd have to keep it up for a long time

 to get any good statistics on paper.  Perhaps you would need about one

 or two days in which to determine the effect for to your own satisfaction.

 Well, I don't think any intelligent person would inflict this upon his own

 body.



  I believe my technique amounts to what is commonly called "common sense";

 a man has to have and use some data upon which to base his daily decisions.

 And he has to realize that the conclusions to which those data point may

 change a little or a lot over time as more data become available.



   Let me tell you my story of *my* discovery of Vitamin E,  (that is, my

 discovering it for myself, since it has been known about from about the

 1920's) :



      I was in a IHOP restaurant in Burnaby when the waitress served 

  me some apple pie on a plate that was **very** hot.  That was back in

  my really skeptical years <gee, Carl, you're still there.  Must be nice

  to stay so young for so long ;-) > when I was deeply in love with science

  and rejected folklore and folk medicine (I guess I believed all those ads

  and posters--have you ever seen them?).



     Anyway, the waitress DID warn me about the plate so I guess my

  burning the tip of one finger was my fault to some extent.  It was

  fairly painful (but small) and it raised a little blister.  Someone

  told me that Vitamin E was good for this sort of thing.  Of course I

  did not believe them but I took some (about 100 I.U.) just to show

  them wrong.  Well, to my amazement the blister and pain went down

  (you could see the blister was smaller at the end of the day).  So

  this is just the natural course of affairs I thought.  It doesn't

  prove anything.  Well, the next day the blister was back again and

  so was the pain.  Another shot of vitamin E repeated the effects.

  Needless to say, you could have knocked me over with a feather:  here

  was a cheap and obviously useful food (extracted from some food) that

  really works and the Western Medical Profession has been poo-pooing

  this.  Made me skeptical and shook my faith in Science a little.  Since

  then I have seen this work several times (it always helps me) but

  it does *not* help everybody.  It is now known that Vitamin E, which

  they have to give to the astronaughts so that they don't get a particular

  type of space anemia, is one of the chief molecules involved with the

  repair of injuries to tissue, speeding the flow of charge and materials

  across the cell walls.  Folk medicine knew this by effect, and as far as

  I am concerned if Western Medicine had done any decent studies, they would

  have "discovered" and published this information.  Sure it doesn't work

  on everybody, but my body needs it sometimes and it sure as hell

  works on me, and Nobody can prove that the effect is not real.  Anyway

  if they try I don't give a sh*t because I already know the answer.

  Also, it is unreasonable to think that I would be the only person on

  planet earth to be susceptble to these healing effects of Vitamin E.

  Since I have to be the ultimate judge as to what I will put into my

  body, I will be the judge.  Evidence, hard evidence, I will listen to,

  but philosophic BS and skepticism only goes so far.  You see, a person

  has to believe something in order to function.  At the very least one

  has to believe in statistics <of course some just go on luck...> .



   You know that I agree with what you say about testing things when one is

 interested in producing the *proof* itself as a viable commodity.  However,

 again and again I keep hearing on the news and in the literature of new

 drugs that the West has found that have been in use in Chinese cultural

 medicine for years.  Many people feel that they don't have time to wait

 for Western Medicine to catch up in these areas, and maybe they are right.



   The Chinese culture has no problem, I think, with accepting the efficacy

 of most Western drugs when they are needed.  Yet, the Chinese system is

 obviously advanced in some areas which are being explored more and more by

 Western Medicine.  These treatments, while not as refined as Western Pharmacy

 could (and will) make them, exist in areas where Western Pharmacy has little

 or nothing, or what it does have may have nasty side effects. 



#= The results

#= of my tests would guide further tests.  If the tests matched my hypotheses

#= then I would have strong evidence pointing to the usefullness or uselessness

#= of the medication.  Heck, I tune the cyclotron this way and I can find and

#= identify and quantify and repeatedly demonstrate all sorts of little nuances

#= this way.  It's what I do professionally.  You know, the cyclotron doctor.

# 

#Hmmm.  Does your cyclotron have a brain?  But let's try to avoid the fuzziness



   You mean a mind of its own?  Some would say so! <snort>  ;-)



#so beloved of philosophers here, and make the question more specific:  How many

#degrees of freedom does your cyclotron posess?



   More than anyone knows.  We are still exploring its "beamspace".  In fact

 there are two Development Groups here whose job is to do just that, to find

 and make use of newly identified phenomena.  Theoretical Physics is good, 

 but you actually have to make it work.



# 

#=#Are you seriously claiming that every such remedy described in folklore is

#=#efficacious?

#=# 



   Since you requoted your question, it gives me another chance to answer

 it directly. No.



#=

#=   The ones described in the old and tried and tested books all have 

#=  some measure of stated efficacy.

# 

#Gee.  The Bible says the Earth was created about 6000 years ago.  Just because

#someone wrote something down, does that mean it's true?  Hmmm.  I seem to



  Possibly wrong.  Now if you want to get into a religious discussion I will

  have to take alt.folklore.herbs out of the newsgroups list.  Suffice it to 

  say that in the Bible it says that "In the beginning, God created the

  heavens and the earth" and then it goes on to describe the effects on

  the surface of the earth.  A careful reading and a careful study show

  that these "creative days" were not 24 hours long.  I know, I know, a

  lot or religious fundamentalists will argue this point, but I think they

  need to take another look at it, too.  The actual "creation" of the

  heavens (where the stars an sun and moon are) could have been earlier, and

  the description in Genesis could mean their becoming visible as the

  atmosphere cleared.  That's how I take it.





#recall someone asking me a very similar question just a day or so ago.  Could

#it have been you, perhaps?

# 



  I don't think so.  I haven't been reading sci.skeptic before Saturday.



#=  The indications vary.  Read the books.

# 

#And meanwhile, why don't you read the sacred literature of various religions. 

#Let me know when you've found a way of reconciling all the traditions.



   Ah, the study of the ages.  Well, I have a lot to say on this topic

  but it will have to wait for another time.  :-( .



# 

#=  There may be some differences in the plants themselves in the past few

#=  hundred years, however.

# 



#Hmmm.  Got any evidence (or even a plausible argument) to support this?  Last

#person I heard who claimed that things EVER changed that fast told me I was

#going to go to hell if I didn't renounce my belief in evolution.

# 



   The species change just a little with the weather and with breeding.  Humans

 are taller now than in England during the dark ages.  Of course we are

 still humans.  And I don't believe in a firey hell.



#=  This does pose a problem and would require

#=  re-evaluation by qualified herbalists every so often.

# 

#For cultivated crops, you've probably got a point.  For herbs that are

#harvested from cultivated areas, you've still probably got a point.  For herbs

#harvested from uncultivated areas, you might, just possibly, have a point, but

#if you wear a hat, it won't be so noticeable.

               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



  Carl, you're a scream!



# 

#=  As well, folks

#=  who just go out and pick wild herbs may not be experts and may pick the

#=  wrong ones.  With mushrooms we know how deadly this can be.  So again,

#=  accurate knowledge is required, supplemented by periodic testing.  But

#=  I would like to say that **I** can do the testing.  I don't necessarily

#=  need the FDA.

# 

#Y'know, that's exactly what every snake-oil salesman in history has claimed. 

#Hey, if you want to play Russion roulette, I'm not going to stop you.  If you

#want to foist your superstitions off one unsuspecting folks as time-tested

#remedies, then I'm a bit more ambivalent.  After thinking about it a bit, go

#ahead!  Do it!  Think of it as evolution in action!

# 



  You know what -- snake-oil salesmen have been around a lot longer

 than the FDA! < Heh Heh Heh.  Yeah, that's the ticket... >, and I see

 that the FDA hasn't gotten rid of them yet....



#=   Well... maybe.  But it is suggestive, nevertheless.  It is only evidence

#= that suggests careful personal experimentation.  Each of us must be his own

#= judge.  We all have a right to accept or refuse any medical treatment based

#= on informed consent.

# 

#Ever checked what the term "informed consent" means, legally?  If curanderos

                                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^



    A new word. [ Please explain...only humans can explain --"Norman"]



#were subject to informed consent, they'd all be out of business.

# 

#= Furthermore, religious freedom is a big issue here. 

#= The medical priesthood sits up and takes notice when you demand alternative

#= medical management,

# 

#They sure do.  They're not at all happy to find themselves in a situation where

#they've got to treat a patient who's in critical condition because he opted for

#"alternative medical management" rather than undergoing an efficacious

#treatment that didn't promise him miracles.  It's a hell of a lot tougher to

#treat someone who's almost dead of a disease than it is to treat him if you

#catch the disease early.



   Naw, it's a hell of a lot harder to make money off him if he won't take

  your treatments. ;-)



# 

#= and they darned well know it and it makes them fear

#= for their wallets.

# 

#Yup.  It's more expensive to treat a patient who's damned near been killed by

#quacks, too.

# 

#=#I've not made any such blanket rejection.  I HAVE been arguing against a

#=#blanket acceptance.  The two are NOT equivalent.

#=

#=   Carl, I feel that you are playing the Devil's advocate here for the

#= purposes of an intelligent discussion.

# 

#To the extent that I haven't accused you of copracephaly, you're right.  I

#figure you know better than to believe the bullshit you've been spouting, and

#have been willing to play second banana in your excellent satire on the topic

#of "alternative medicine."

# 

#= Very good.  Actually I made no

#= accusation that *you* made the statement, but I made a general comment that

#= the blanket rejection would be wrong since so many other folks read this.

#=

#=   You know, I think we are coming closer and closer to an agreement. :-)

# 

#Perhaps.  Near as I can tell, you've been grossly exaggerating the position of

#informed people who advocate "alternative medicine."  I've been reacting by

#pointing out the flaws in those arguments, and have, as a result, found myself

#exaggerating the position of the skeptics (yeah, I could've tried to address

#the various ludicrous claims you've put forth in a somewhat moderate manner. 

#To do so, however, would've required considerably lengthier responses, and

#though I'm a pretty good typist, I've only got a 19200-baud terminal.  If

#nothing else, I suspect we've given anybody who's patient [not to mention

#masochistic] enough to have followed this thread a look at the two extreme

#positions, subject to the requirement that they be at least somewhat

#well-reasoned.

# 

#Now, shall we move on to the question of whether the mouse is the greatest

#thing since sliced bread?

#--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   Gladly.  It's been a slice!





#Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

# 

#Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

#understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

#unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

#organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

#hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.



 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: abm1@crux5.cit.cornell.edu (a.B. Mayers; BOTmaster)

Date: 3 Nov 93 05:55:58 GMT

--------

music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) wanders all over heaven, hell, and

	his warts in a long rambling article quoting someone named Carl:



>#Sorry, but you're overlooking a minor detail.  You see, hypnosis appears to

>#have an effect on warts.  Yup.  Hypnotize someone, convince him under hypnosis

>#that the warts are going to go away, and they go away.  Yeah, the effect size

>#is small, and no, this particular treatment hasn't been rigorously tested

>#(but, hey!  it's got as much support for it as do many folk remedies!



>  So can you say a few hypnotic words to me to make my warts go away?  ;-)



>  More seriously, I am interested in this topic of what would seem to

> me to be an extreme form of the placebo effect.  Tell me more, please.



Actually, although I'd rather not get into the middle of this, I would like

to point out that the Warts&hypnosis tests were run against placebo conditions

(like all good psychological studies) and that the reason for the "non-

rigorous" testing of hypnosis is that Psychologists still have trouble defining

hypnosis.



Zimbardo, Philip G.; Psychology and Life 13th ed. pg 123-126



"However, research has shown that the specific effects hypnosis produces

in deeply hypnotized subjects is distinguishable from both the expectancy

efffects of placebo responding and general suggestibility effects."



The book directs your attention to the following study:



Evans, F. J. (1989). The independence of suggestibility, placebo response,

and hypnotizability. In V.A. Gheorgiu, P. Netter, H.J. Eysenck, & R.

Rosenthal (Eds.), _Suggestion and suggestibility_ (pp 145-154). New York:

Springer, Verlag.



The warts reference...



Harary, Keith. _The Trouble with Hypnosis_



"Numerous reports attest the effectiveness of hypnosis in the treatment of

warts.  In those who have been hypnotized, warts later disappear entirely

on their own, without medicine or surgery.  Since warts are virally induced,

this striking phenomenon has fueled belief that hypnosis somehow mobilizes

immune response."



and



"The absence of a standard definition [of hypnosis] is far more than a

semantic quibble.  It appears to signify a fatal flaw in the way we think

about hypnosis--and in the way we think about ourselves"





>   I understand the double-blind system.  Trouble is, it's kinda hard

> to do yourself.  When I explore some new treatment, I approach it with

> an open, in fact skeptical, mind.  I try to be aware of the placebo effect

> and "auto-hypnosis", if that is what you would call it.  I do the tests



Nonono.  Get two friends, one to mix up a wart remover substance, and a

placebo substance that looks and smells just like it, and one to give both

to you, not knowing which is which, so you have no expectancy biases.



> as to have something to go on in making future decisions.  Now I realize

> that this technique has built into it the seeds of bias, but a fellow cannot

> conduct his life as a double-blind experiment forever.  There comes a time



That's why you need other people.  You can never operate your life in a

double-blind condition, since double-blind requires three people, a subject

and an experimenter who know nothing, and a third who knows and can keep track.



>  I believe my technique amounts to what is commonly called "common sense";



But don't call it an experiemental technique, then.  It's little better than

"Science coated journalism" then.



>   You know that I agree with what you say about testing things when one is

> interested in producing the *proof* itself as a viable commodity.  However,

> again and again I keep hearing on the news and in the literature of new

> drugs that the West has found that have been in use in Chinese cultural

> medicine for years.  Many people feel that they don't have time to wait

> for Western Medicine to catch up in these areas, and maybe they are right.



Western medicine builds in safety, that's the cause of the delay.  I don't

see you turning into a Buddhist overnight because acupuncture works...

(I know, bad example, but you get my drift) you can't blindly accept

everything that anyone has to say about everything, because people are

fallable, and they may paint a convincing picture (think about how long we

believed in aether) and still be wrong wrong wrong.



-aB Mayers









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 3 Nov 1993 12:48 PST

--------

In article <abm1.752306158@crux1.cit.cornell.edu>, abm1@crux5.cit.cornell.edu (a.B. Mayers; BOTmaster) writes...

#music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) wanders all over heaven, hell, and

#	his warts in a long rambling article quoting someone named Carl:



   Thanks for the information on the hypnotic removal of warts.  Carl J.

 Lydick, a VMS guru and at least a self-considered skeptic from sci.skeptic,

 brought the topic up.  The matters of religion were brought up by myself

 since I feel that the legalization of the suppression of herbalism in general

 infringes upon your, my, and other people's religious rights.



    Somehow I doubt that you want me to go into this further.



 #>   I understand the double-blind system.  Trouble is, it's kinda hard

#> to do yourself.  When I explore some new treatment, I approach it with

#> an open, in fact skeptical, mind.  I try to be aware of the placebo effect

#> and "auto-hypnosis", if that is what you would call it.  I do the tests

# 

#Nonono.  Get two friends, one to mix up a wart remover substance, and a

#placebo substance that looks and smells just like it, and one to give both

#to you, not knowing which is which, so you have no expectancy biases.

# 



   Yeah.  It's kinda hard to do ** by yourself **.  I see you agree.



#> as to have something to go on in making future decisions.  Now I realize

#> that this technique has built into it the seeds of bias, but a fellow cannot

#> conduct his life as a double-blind experiment forever.  There comes a time

# 

#That's why you need other people.  You can never operate your life in a

#double-blind condition, since double-blind requires three people, a subject

#and an experimenter who know nothing, and a third who knows and can keep track.



   We agree.



#>  I believe my technique amounts to what is commonly called "common sense";



    I failed to mention that other people's observations of my actions,

 reactions or lack thereof should be noted in any of my proposed self-

 experimentation.  Thanks for pointing this out.





#But don't call it an experiemental technique, then.  It's little better than

#"Science coated journalism" then.



    Can't really argue with that.



#>   You know that I agree with what you say about testing things when one is

#> interested in producing the *proof* itself as a viable commodity.  However,

#> again and again I keep hearing on the news and in the literature of new

#> drugs that the West has found that have been in use in Chinese cultural

#> medicine for years.  Many people feel that they don't have time to wait

#> for Western Medicine to catch up in these areas, and maybe they are right.

# 

#Western medicine builds in safety, that's the cause of the delay.  I don't



   Some people cannot wait for the delay, and they would rather make

 their *own* decisions on the Safety aspects.  I think they should have

 this right, especially people with terminal illnesses.



#see you turning into a Buddhist overnight because acupuncture works...



   Right you are.  However...



   there was a fabulous documentary in a Life magazine years ago where

 a famous writer had developed terminal cancer of the skull.  The medical

 scans could point it up, and they did.  Then the writer went to an Oriental

 Medicine man ( I think he might have been a Buddhist ) who changed the

 fellow's diet to exclude many Western foods and meats, and to include

 a special brown-rice ball every day.  I remember the big picture in

 the magazine of the brown-rice ball.  Anyway, contrary to all predictions

 (except that of the herbalist), the cancer disappeared, and although the

 herbalist warned against taking the scans again (excess radiation exposure

 was cited as the reason), the writer decided that the scans were very

 important to document the total remission for history, and to validate

 the herbalist's prescribed diet.  I believe this all happened in New York.

 The article was sure a good slap at Conventional Western Medicine, and 

 at its contempt for other philosophies and other medicines.



   I don't want anyone to misunderstand me and my views on Buddhist

 *religious* philosophy, however.  I certainly do NOT promote that.  But

 the Oriental herbal cures should NOT be ignored or poo-pooed blindly.



#(I know, bad example, but you get my drift) you can't blindly accept

#everything that anyone has to say about everything, because people are

#fallable, and they may paint a convincing picture (think about how long we

#believed in aether) and still be wrong wrong wrong.



    Agreed.



#-aB Mayers



 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)

Date: 4 Nov 1993 00:57:02 GMT

--------

In article <3NOV199312481528@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:

=   there was a fabulous documentary in a Life magazine years ago where

= a famous writer had developed terminal cancer of the skull.  The medical

= scans could point it up, and they did.  Then the writer went to an Oriental

= Medicine man ( I think he might have been a Buddhist ) who changed the

= fellow's diet to exclude many Western foods and meats, and to include

= a special brown-rice ball every day.  I remember the big picture in

= the magazine of the brown-rice ball.  Anyway, contrary to all predictions

= (except that of the herbalist), the cancer disappeared, and although the

= herbalist warned against taking the scans again (excess radiation exposure

= was cited as the reason), the writer decided that the scans were very

= important to document the total remission for history, and to validate

= the herbalist's prescribed diet.  I believe this all happened in New York.

= The article was sure a good slap at Conventional Western Medicine, and 

= at its contempt for other philosophies and other medicines.



I don't suppose the Life documentary bothered to investigate the cure rate

rather than just taking that ONE recovery?  You see, spontaneous remission of

cancer is far from unheard-of.  It seems to me rather likely that you could

find at least on case of spontaneous remission associated with whatever

regimen you choose to tout.  To make a case for the effectiveness of a

particular regimen, you've got to show that the remission rate among those

using that regimen is higher than the overall remission rate.  The article as

you describe it is yet another example of the credulity of western journalists.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL



Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: rrd@fc.hp.com (Ray Depew)

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 15:52:24 GMT

--------

First:

: In article <3NOV199312481528@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:

: =   there was a fabulous documentary in a Life magazine years ago where

: = a famous writer had developed terminal cancer of the skull.  

[deleted]



Was that in Life, or in Health?  I remember reading it too.



Then,

Carl J Lydick (carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU) wrote:



: I don't suppose the Life documentary bothered to investigate the cure rate

: rather than just taking that ONE recovery?  

[deleted]

: The article as

: you describe it is yet another example of the credulity of western 

: journalists.



Well, it was meant to be "one man's story," and it was written by the

patient/victim/famous-writer himself.  The tone of the article made it

clear that it wasn't intended to be a refutation of Western science,

but rather a celebration of one man's triumph.  The feeling the article

generated was the same feeling I got after I watched "The Doctor".  Too

hard to describe.



But the article was not intended to declare with any degree of authority

that Oriental medicine was better at treating EVERYONE'S cancer than was

Western medicine.  At least, it didn't convince me.





Regards

Ray Depew

Integrated Circuits Business Division

Hewlett Packard Co, Fort Collins, Colorado

rrd@hpfiqa.fc.hp.com









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 8 Nov 1993 13:41 PST

--------

In article <CFz5FC.6oy@fc.hp.com>, rrd@fc.hp.com (Ray Depew) writes...

#First:

#: In article <3NOV199312481528@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:

#: =   there was a fabulous documentary in a Life magazine years ago where

#: = a famous writer had developed terminal cancer of the skull.  

#[deleted]

# 

#Was that in Life, or in Health?  I remember reading it too.



   Yeah.  Life, I think.  Could have easily been both mag's.  Anyway, do you

 remember the lead picture of this fellow holding up a plate with this huge,

 brown rice ball on it?  That picture stands out in my mind.



# 

#Then,

#Carl J Lydick (carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU) wrote:

# 

#: I don't suppose the Life documentary bothered to investigate the cure rate

#: rather than just taking that ONE recovery?  

#[deleted]

#: The article as

#: you describe it is yet another example of the credulity of western 

#: journalists.

# 

#Well, it was meant to be "one man's story," and it was written by the

#patient/victim/famous-writer himself.  The tone of the article made it

#clear that it wasn't intended to be a refutation of Western science,

#but rather a celebration of one man's triumph.  The feeling the article

#generated was the same feeling I got after I watched "The Doctor".  Too

#hard to describe.

# 

   Right.  Thanks for explaining that.



#But the article was not intended to declare with any degree of authority

#that Oriental medicine was better at treating EVERYONE'S cancer than was

#Western medicine.  At least, it didn't convince me.



   It convinced a lot of people, myself included, that Conventional Western

 Medicine just too quickly dismisses all the herbalists in one fell swoop

 without even giving them a fair hearing.  Just because there is one quack

 or even 10 quacks, or even 100 quacks in a field, does that mean that

 everyone in that field is a quack?  No.  But that is the way the that 

 Conventional Western Medicine has treated herbalists for years.



   Thanks much for your support.



#Regards

#Ray Depew

#Integrated Circuits Business Division

#Hewlett Packard Co, Fort Collins, Colorado

#rrd@hpfiqa.fc.hp.com



 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)

Date: 8 Nov 1993 23:17:14 GMT

--------

In article <8NOV199313411922@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:

=   It convinced a lot of people, myself included, that Conventional Western

= Medicine just too quickly dismisses all the herbalists in one fell swoop

= without even giving them a fair hearing.



They're asked to do controlled studies to demonstrate the efficacy of their

claims.  Some, I suppose, would claim that that requirement is a case of

denying them a fair hearing.



= Just because there is one quack

= or even 10 quacks, or even 100 quacks in a field, does that mean that

= everyone in that field is a quack?  No.



No, but if you've seen enough quacks, that's the way to bet.  At that point, it

becomes incumbent on the legitimate practitioners (if any exist) to demonstrate

that they're NOT quacks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL



Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 8 Nov 1993 17:05 PST

--------

  I have shortened the newsgroup list. I hope that was the right thing to do.



In article <2bmk1q$2m9@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes...

#In article <8NOV199313411922@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca

 (FRED W. BACH) writes:



   [stuff deleted]



#= Just because there is one quack

#= or even 10 quacks, or even 100 quacks in a field, does that mean that

#= everyone in that field is a quack?  No.

# 

#No, but if you've seen enough quacks, that's the way to bet.  At that point, it

#becomes incumbent on the legitimate practitioners (if any exist) to demonstrate

#that they're NOT quacks.



   When we use words like incumbent, and since we are mentioning betting here,

 it seems to me to ask *why* should the legitimate practitioners spend all 

 their time smoking out the fakers when they could be spending their time

 legitimately (at least in their own eyes) curing their patients and learning

 about both old and new herbals preparations, and for that matter, about the

 Western pharmaceuticals?  Where do they place their best "bet" when it comes

 to their time and efforts?  "Incumbent" suggests it is their responsibility. 

 Heck, there are thousands of liars in the world, most of them are political

 and some of them are salespeople and the rest may be lawyers and their ilk 

 (well, possibly  :-)  ) or may be found on sci.skeptic for all I know.  Just

 because they exist, should I be out there trying to expose them and spout my

 own philosophical truth?  It surely would take more time than I could give it. 

 So, would you really answer "yes" to "Is it incumbent" on me?.  You might

 say "yes", since it's my time you'd be dealing away.   :-)



   It would seem that this job should rightly fall to some legitimate 

 *professional* body.  I wonder if there is such a college of herbalists.

 Does anybody know?



  And yes, as a skeptic, I *did* want to know more about that particular

 herbalist and his success ratio.  It was the obvious question to which,

 unfortunately, we did not get a complete answer.  It surely left us hanging

 in mid air, as it were.



#Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

# 



 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)

Date: 9 Nov 1993 05:44:44 GMT

--------

In article <8NOV199317052886@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:

=#= Just because there is one quack

=#= or even 10 quacks, or even 100 quacks in a field, does that mean that

=#= everyone in that field is a quack?  No.

=# 

=#No, but if you've seen enough quacks, that's the way to bet.  At that point, it

=#becomes incumbent on the legitimate practitioners (if any exist) to demonstrate

=#that they're NOT quacks.

=

=   When we use words like incumbent, and since we are mentioning betting here,

= it seems to me to ask *why* should the legitimate practitioners spend all 

= their time smoking out the fakers when they could be spending their time

= legitimately (at least in their own eyes) curing their patients and learning

= about both old and new herbals preparations, and for that matter, about the

= Western pharmaceuticals?



Well, if the goal is to see as many patients as possible helped, then a

strategy involving proving the effectiveness of the more effective remedies is

going to be more effective than is one in which the effectiveness remains a

matter of folklore and anecdotal evidence.



= Where do they place their best "bet" when it comes

= to their time and efforts?  "Incumbent" suggests it is their responsibility. 

= Heck, there are thousands of liars in the world, most of them are political

= and some of them are salespeople and the rest may be lawyers and their ilk 

= (well, possibly  :-)  ) or may be found on sci.skeptic for all I know.  Just

= because they exist, should I be out there trying to expose them and spout my

= own philosophical truth?



No, but if you want other people to adopt your practices, the best way is to

demontrate that your practices are effective.  It's not a matter of

demonstrating that the charlatans ARE charlatans, but that despite the number

of charlatans in your field, YOU are actually using effective techniques.



= It surely would take more time than I could give it. 

= So, would you really answer "yes" to "Is it incumbent" on me?.



If you want people to treat your remedies as other than snake oil, yes.  It may

not be your fault that the remedies you use are largely ignored, but if you

don't consider it worth YOUR time to demonstrate that they work, why should

anybody else?  After all, YOU'RE the one claiming to know that they're

effective.



=   It would seem that this job should rightly fall to some legitimate 

= *professional* body.  I wonder if there is such a college of herbalists.

= Does anybody know?



A, the problems of the English language.  I didn't mean the word "you" to imply

singularity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL



Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal remedies vs synthetics (was Re: Looking for Organic method of Birth Control, advice wanted)

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 8 Nov 1993 13:33 PST

--------

In article <2b9k0u$rt8@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes...

#In article <3NOV199312481528@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:

#=   there was a fabulous documentary in a Life magazine years ago where

#= a famous writer had developed terminal cancer of the skull.  The medical

#= scans could point it up, and they did.  Then the writer went to an Oriental

#= Medicine man ( I think he might have been a Buddhist ) who changed the

#= fellow's diet to exclude many Western foods and meats, and to include

#= a special brown-rice ball every day.  I remember the big picture in

#= the magazine of the brown-rice ball.  Anyway, contrary to all predictions

#= (except that of the herbalist), the cancer disappeared, and although the

#= herbalist warned against taking the scans again (excess radiation exposure

#= was cited as the reason), the writer decided that the scans were very

#= important to document the total remission for history, and to validate

#= the herbalist's prescribed diet.  I believe this all happened in New York.

#= The article was sure a good slap at Conventional Western Medicine, and 

#= at its contempt for other philosophies and other medicines.

# 

#I don't suppose the Life documentary bothered to investigate the cure rate

#rather than just taking that ONE recovery?  You see, spontaneous remission of

#cancer is far from unheard-of.  It seems to me rather likely that you could

#find at least on case of spontaneous remission associated with whatever

#regimen you choose to tout.  To make a case for the effectiveness of a

#particular regimen, you've got to show that the remission rate among those

#using that regimen is higher than the overall remission rate.  The article as

#you describe it is yet another example of the credulity of western journalists.

#--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

# 



  Of course, looking at this one case, you would be right.  But the article

 addressed this objection, as I recall.   It could not be *proven* that

 this was not a spontaneous remission; those involved with the case on the

 side of Western Medicine had deemed the condition terminal.  The herbalist,

 on the other hand, had seen this before and knew just what to do.  The fellow

 who had the cancer was (or became) a writer, and as I recall, he previously

 held some high position in the Western Medical field.  Anyway, the whole

 question of the article was, since the facts of the case could not be denied:

 was this just Faith Healing, or just might there be something to the claims

 of the herbalist?   It was left for the reader to decide.  In fact, even if

 it was just "faith healing", who cares?, since the objective had been reached

 (the cancer eliminated).  The fellow who had the cancer himself had all the

 proof *he* needed to make up his *own* mind, even though he was thoroughly

 indoctrinated with Western Medicine, its credos and lore.  The specificity

 of the herbal treatment, and its effectiveness appeared to be quite stunning.

 And whereas one thoroughly documented case does not *prove* anything positive

 in a scientific way, it does lend some weight to the view that these herbalists

 and their claims should not be just dismissed outright.



    Carl, I thought you were tired of typing ;-)  .



 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: Herbal stimulates

From: qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov (Krispy Kritter)

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 18:56:55 GMT

--------

I'm looking for plants/herbs with stimulating/anti-fatigue properties.

I must stay away from caffine sources.  



thanxs

krispy 









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal stimulates

From: mlang@eagle.wesleyan.edu

Date: 3 Nov 93 22:42:53 EST

--------

In article <CFvoMv.89v@news.ssc.gov>, qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov (Krispy Kritter) writes:

> I'm looking for plants/herbs with stimulating/anti-fatigue properties.

> I must stay away from caffine sources.  

> 

> thanxs

> krispy 



I used to be a caffeine fiend and quit last year.  I've been using Siberian

Ginseng (drops) with satisfactory effects.  One drawback is the alcohol content

so you might consider it in another form.  BUt for me the drops are fine.  Gaia

herbs in Massachusetts is a good source.  A friend of mine bought a gallon of

it from somewhere else i think.  I can get that info for you if you like.



--meli









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal stimulates

From: kim@umbc.edu (Ms. Kim Collins)

Date: 5 Nov 1993 14:19:21 -0500

--------

Two other good herbal stimulants are bee pollen/royal jelly and spirulina.  I 

have found that spirulina works better for me than the bp/rj, but see what 

works for you.  



Spirulina is an algae that is high in beta-carotene; it has anti-fatigue as 

well as appetite-suppressant characteristics.  You will need to take it for

about a week before you notice higher energy-levels.  It's not an instant

energy boost, like caffeine.  But if you take one capsule a day for about

a week you will probably notice that you have more energy.  I noticed it the

day I forgot to take spirulina and I was dragging in the afternoon.  Good luck!



kim











==========

Subject: Re: Herbal stimulates

From: korpela@islay.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela)

Date: 5 Nov 1993 19:30:21 GMT

--------

In article <CFvoMv.89v@news.ssc.gov> qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov (Krispy Kritter) writes:

>

>I'm looking for plants/herbs with stimulating/anti-fatigue properties.

>I must stay away from caffine sources.  

>



I've heard that coca extracts are good as a stimulant.



:) :) :) ;)  (<---- for the humor impaired)



They're also good for getting you dead.



Eric



-- 

Eric Korpela                        |  The two most common things in the

korpela@ssl.berkeley.edu            |  universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.

                                    |        -Harlan Ellison









==========

Subject: Apocynum cannabinum

From: glcross2@infonode.ingr.com (Gordon Cross)

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 18:03:44 GMT

--------



I came across a jar labelled "Apocynum Cannabinum" while sorting through boxes

that have been stored since my grandmother's death.  Can someone tell me what

this is and what it is used for??  The only reference I've found so far says

that it is "rated slightly dangerous" and offers no other information.

Thanks in advance!

-- 



Gordon Cross          UUCP:     uunet!ingr!infonode!glcross2  "all opinions are

111 Westminister Way  INTERNET: glcross2@infonode.ingr.com   mine and not those

Madison, AL 35758     MA BELL:  (205) 730-3760               of my employer."









==========

Subject: Re: Apocynum cannabinum

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 21:10:14 GMT

--------

In article <1993Nov3.180344.7371@infonode.ingr.com> Gordon Cross,

glcross2@infonode.ingr.com writes:

> I came across a jar labelled "Apocynum Cannabinum" while sorting through

boxes

> that have been stored since my grandmother's death.  Can someone tell me what

> this is and what it is used for??  The only reference I've found so far says

> that it is "rated slightly dangerous" and offers no other information.

> Thanks in advance!



The stuff is Hemp Dogbane or Indian Hemp (common names for the same plant).

 The "hemp" part comes not because it's smokable (lest anyone get any bright

 ideas) but because the bark is stringy and can be twisted or braided into

cords.

  The rhizome and root, when dried, can be infused to yield an emetic.  It

"acts

  like the digitalis group of heart stimulants," according to one of my sources

  (Nelson Coon, _Using Plants for Healing_, 1979, Rodale Press), and he further

  cites Youngken:  "a 'cardiac stimulant in threatened cardiac failure, and

  diuretic in dropsy.'"  I found no hint whether it loses potency with age or

  not, but I'd treat it with respect, anyhow.

  

  --Baird

  __

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Christopher John Arnold)

Date: 3 Nov 1993 18:15:17 GMT

--------



Greetings!



Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?



-=Chris=-











==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: clynne@cco.caltech.edu (Constance L. Villani)

Date: 3 Nov 1993 18:53:14 GMT

--------

Christopher John Arnold <gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:

>Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

>or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?



I had a roommate who used to SWEAR by Acidophilus in milk

products as a preventative.  Personally, it never worked 

for me...



On the other hand, keeping the vaginal area clean and dry 

is a good start for a remedy - and it's a great excuse to sit 

around the house with no pants on! :)



Avoiding stress and getting a good nights sleep is good for

remedying a yeast infection, too.



I found out the hard way (no money to go to the doctor) that

a yeast infection will eventually clear up if you take

good care of yourself and avoid sex until it goes away.  Of

course, it took three weeks instead of one, but it was cheap,

and natural, if uncomfortable...  :)



Also, no sex until the infection has gone away (your s. o. 

may get it and give it back to you, without realizing he

has an infection).  One way to tell is if he suddenly seems

to have a lot of dry skin around his penis - that's what a 

yeast infection looks like on guys.  Another telltale is

if you keep treating it and it keeps coming back.  Make him

go to the doctor and get some clotriminole (a cream) or 

whatever to kill it.





:) Constance









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: a207141@mksol.dseg.ti.com (Denise L Bourgoyne)

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:15:28 GMT

--------

: Christopher John Arnold <gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:

: >Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

: >or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?



Avoid eating sugar.



D. Bourgoyne









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: clynne@cco.caltech.edu (Constance L. Villani)

Date: 4 Nov 1993 00:39:26 GMT

--------

Diane Stothard <dstothar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:

>I'm not sure, but I have heard that this may not be a good idea. An untreated 

>infection could lead to tissue damage, i.e., scar tissue, i.e., sterility or at

>least reduced fertility. (Hey maybe this should be considered under the natural

>birth control topic, though it's not a very good idea). Either way, it might be

>worth your trouble and expense to see a doctor and find out for sure first.



Good point - I should have mentioned that I was kind of 

worried that something like that would happen.  Once I

HAD enough money to go in for a checkup, I DID ask the 

doctor and she said that there weren't any problems, as

far as she could tell.  She said there was more danger

of scarring and whatnot from untreated STDs, but I have

to admit that "more danger" does imply some danger.



:) Constance

 











==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: swardwel@nyx.cs.du.edu (Stephanie  Wardwell)

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 19:18:07 GMT

--------

I have actually had a lot of luck with vinegar & water douches.  You

shouldn't ordinarily douche much, but the irrigation itself seems to help 

a lot in clearing out the infection, with the vinegar helping to make the 

wrong environment for the yeast.  I can usually clear the infection in 

3-4 days rather than a week.



Maeven





--

   Lost in Time       Surrounded by Network Nozzles     Low on Ratings

                        **  Army of Leapers  **



Stephanie Wardwell		             swardwel@mail.sas.upenn.edu









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: cfanger@epas.utoronto.ca (Claire Fanger)

Date: 3 Nov 1993 20:55:40 -0500

--------

In article <2b8umq$h10@gap.cco.caltech.edu> clynne@cco.caltech.edu (Constance L. Villani) writes:

>Christopher John Arnold <gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:

>>Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

>>or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?

>

>I had a roommate who used to SWEAR by Acidophilus in milk

>products as a preventative.  Personally, it never worked 

>for me...



It may not work for everyone, but it does for me.  I tried it after

reading a short newspaper article mentioning a study (in typical

journalistic fashion the writer omitted who had performed this study

and where) in which women who consumed 8 ounces of yogurt daily for a

six month period suffered significantly fewer infections than the

control group.  I conquered a recurrent monthly infection by

increasing my intake of yogurt.  I still try to eat yogurt regularly

(tho not daily, and usually less than 8 ounces).  I haven't had any

trouble with yeast since except when taking antibiotics.  This is

something that more women really ought to know about.  NB -- it does

not cure infections (at least not more quickly than just waiting for

them to go away).  Also you have to keep it up.  But it does seem to

prevent recurrences of chronic infections, in my experience as well as

according to this study.



Claire Fanger

cfanger@epas.utoronto.ca















==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: sandy@twg.com (Sandy Vrooman)

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 20:33:27 GMT

--------

In article <2b8sfl$dgo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Christopher John Arnold) writes:

>

>Greetings!

>

>Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

>or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?



Remove as much sugar and carbohydrates (that turn into sugar when digested)

and eat Yogurt or other cultured foods. Wear cotton undies.



Sandy Vrooman>









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: jareed@rodan.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed)

Date: 5 Nov 93 13:16:41 GMT

--------



 One poster mentioned eating yoghurt. Another recommendation is to douche

with it - the bacteria and acidity help fight the infection. Not herbal, but

certainly natural.               









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: lurker@cyberia.bowlgreen.oh.us (Lurker On The Threshold)

Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 18:32:19 EST

--------

sandy@twg.com (Sandy Vrooman) writes:

 

> In article <2b8sfl$dgo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Christopher 

> John Arnold) writes:

>>

>>Greetings!

>>

>>Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

>>or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?

>

> Remove as much sugar and carbohydrates (that turn into sugar when digested)

> and eat Yogurt or other cultured foods. Wear cotton undies.

> 

> Sandy Vrooman>

 

Important:  Look at any vitamin/mineral supplements you might be 

taking...  many are made by growing YEAST in a "broth" of the nutrients 

the supplement is intended to contain.  The yeast is then dried and 

concentrated to make the supplement.  When you take it, guess what 

happens? 

 

-- 

No one in Cyberia is responsible for ANYTHING, let alone

some caller's opinions...









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: cvammahh@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu

Date: 4 Nov 93 15:06:21 PST

--------

In article <2b8sfl$dgo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Christopher John Arnold) writes:

> 

> Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

> or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?

> 

The other suggestions made have been wonderful, but none I have personally

heard of.  Once you are sure that it is a yeast infection that you are dealing

with (which is different from a sexually transmitted disease) there is one

simple way to rid yourself of the problem.  Purchase a clove of garlic and

remove one portion of it.  Nick the ends with a knife and remove the skin. 

Place the fresh garlic in gauze and insert it in the vagina over night.  A few

nights of this will definitely raise the acidity level of your vagina, thereby

making it difficult for the yeast to exist.  



Also, try baths as opposed to showers, avoiding bubbles.  In fact, add a touch

a vinegar into the bath to raise the acidity level.



If it doesn't go away after a time, be sure you are dealing with a yeast

infection.  Symptoms (discharge, itch, etc.) can be for many different

illnesses.  Perhaps you need an antibiotic.



Finally, to avoid further problems, make sure both you and your partner wash

right before sex, and then afterward, excuse yourself for a trip to the toilet.

 The urine will help flush away any germs in the urethra.  Good luck!-- 

---

Lisa Devereaux aka Morgan le Fay       Email: cvammahh@csupomona.edu

                    We are the spiders; we are the thread

                    We are the witches back from the dead.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: jennifer@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jennifer Lucille Dunajski)

Date: 7 Nov 1993 19:51:41 GMT

--------

cvammahh@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu wrote:

: Also, try baths as opposed to showers, avoiding bubbles.  In fact, add a touch

: a vinegar into the bath to raise the acidity level.

-no, no baths (take it from one who has delt with recurring yeast infections until i finally found a doctor who told me what to do)! 

1) avoid baths, take showers

2) if you are taking anti-biotics, eat yougart every day (or if you tend to get recurring yeast infections

3) wear cotton underwear (less heat build-up)

4) avoid sex (it tends to be painful when you have a full-blown yeast infection anyway, besides you can give it to your S.O. and he can give it back to you, etc...)



-has worked for me...even when on anti-biotics...no more yeast infections!



--

jennifer@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

--

No one really knows why or even how, but around 100,000 years ago

early humans developed a tremendous brain and concurrently the ability

to talk.  Today the talking part seems to be overused and the brain

part underused, even though we delude ourselves that the opposite is

the case.









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: sschilli@nmsu.edu (Sandy Schilling)

Date: 5 Nov 1993 02:16:10 GMT

--------

In article <2b8sfl$dgo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Christopher John Arnold) writes:

> Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

> or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?



I get recurring yeast infections due to hormone fluxuations.  When I feel

one coming on, I take acidophilus and Pao d' Arco 3-4 times a day.  For

the burning around the vagina, I use vitamin E oil (just break open a capsule).

Most of the time I catch it before there is a lot of discharge and burning.

If I don't, then I mix a small amount of plain yogurt (*plain* NO sugar! 

Dannon is good because it also has active cultures) with the contents of 1 

capsule of acidophilus and insert it vagina at bedtime.  One or two doses of 

that, and I'm fine.



As others have said, make sure it is a yeast infection before trying to treat

it with the method above.  It's best to check it out with a doctor first.

Mine (surprisingly enough) approves with what I use.



Good luck.



--sandy 











==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: dstothar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Diane Stothard)

Date: 5 Nov 1993 02:23:34 GMT

--------

>stuff about inserting garlic in the vagina deleted



First of all, as for garlic in the vagina, I personally wouldn't put ANYTHING

that is NOT STERILE in my vagina. Garlic from the supermarket or anywhere else

is NOT sterile. It may in fact work, but I would be hesitant to try it. If you

have a reaction to it, your situation would be worse.



>If it doesn't go away after a time, be sure you are dealing with a yeast

>infection.  Symptoms (discharge, itch, etc.) can be for many different

>illnesses.  Perhaps you need an antibiotic.



Good advise. However, DO NOT take antibiotics for a yeast infection. 

Antibiotics kill bacteria. Yeast is a fungus. Antibiotics have NO EFFECT on 

yeast. In fact, taking antibiotics will actually make your situation worse 

because it is the natural bacteria in the vagina that keep the natural yeast 

that reside there in check. Bacterial metabolism creates acidic by-products 

that help control the growth of the yeast. So, if you do have a yeast 

infection, do not take antibiotics. You need an antifungal medication.



> The urine will help flush away any germs in the urethra.



I'm not sure what is meant by this statement. There are no germs in the 

urethra, or there shouldn't be! unless you have a urinary tract infection as 

well as a yeast infection. The vagina (where yeast infections occur) and the 

urethra (where urine travels out of the body) have nothing to do with each 

other.



Good luck,

Diane









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: sallyh@netcom.com (Sally Holmes)

Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1993 00:08:48 GMT

--------

dstothar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Diane Stothard) writes:



> ...I personally wouldn't put ANYTHING

>that is NOT STERILE in my vagina. 



Gee, that must make sex a little difficult...





What method do you prefer: boiling for five minutes, or a  solution of

sodium hypochlorite?



Sally











==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: leira@dionysus (Linda L. Julien)

Date: 5 Nov 1993 16:52:17 GMT

--------

In article <2b8sfl$dgo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu  

(Christopher John Arnold) writes:

> 

> Could anyone tell me of successful herbal/natural preventatives

> or remedies for vaginal yeast infection?



I was recently told about a remedy for yeast infections.  I haven't had  

the necessity to try it yet, but it sounds promising, and I know people  

who swear by it.



Make a paste of slippery elm powder and water, and insert it into the  

vagina (but not *really* deeply like you would with Monistat or the like).   

Wear a pantyliner and let it sit for 2-3 hours.  If you let it sit longer,  

the paste will start to dry, which isn't good.  After the 2-3 hours,  

remove the paste by douching with an infusion of damiana.



As I said, I haven't needed to try this yet, but I had a yeast infection  

looming recently, and drinking a few cups of damiana tea drove it off.  I  

also try to eat yogurt and drink cranberry juice semi-regularly, which  

I've had a lot of success with.  I'm about to add damiana tea to that  

list, too.



Linda









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal treatment for yeast infections

From: clynne@cco.caltech.edu (Constance L. Villani)

Date: 5 Nov 1993 19:15:24 GMT

--------

Linda L. Julien <leira@dionysus> wrote:

>I also try to eat yogurt and drink cranberry juice semi-regularly, which  



My doctor actually recommended cranberries for yeast 

infections and urinary tract infections while I was

pregnant.  The only thing to worry about is that most

commercial Cranberry juice preparations have a lot of

sugar in them, which is of course bad for a yeast infection.



Two alternatives were jellied cranberries (lots of sugar

but very concentrated amounts of cranberry stuff, I am

told), or my favorite, dried cranberries.  These things

are just like raisins, only they taste good!  They're 

a little tart, but if you don't like 'em alone, they perk

up bran muffins or morning cereal, too.  The only problem 

is that they're kind of expensive (up to $5/ half pound!), 

unless you buy them in bulk from Casa de Fruta (which I

understand does mail order).  Trader Joes has them for I

think $2/ half pound, which is still highway robbery, but

marginally reasonable.



:) Connie-Lynne













==========

Subject: Herbs for hair growth?

From: susan_soric@upubs.uchicago.edu (Susan Soric)

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 20:46:11 GMT

--------

Are there any herbs (taken internally or applied

externally)  that stimulate the scalp, protect

hair follicles, and/or promote hair growth?



Any leads or info. will be appreciated.



Susan

susan_soric@upubs.uchicago.edu









==========

Subject: Can Sassafrass Cause Cancer?

From: baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet (Dreamer)

Date: 3 Nov 93 21:13:19 CST

--------

I read in a fairly new book about herbs and stuff "Magic and Medicine

of Plants" (Reader's Digest thing) .. It said something about

Sassafrass "The US Food and Drug Administration lists sassafras oil as

"unsafe" because of determinations that the safrole in the oil is a

potential carcinogen" (Carcinogen - Cancer Causing Agent.. ) .. does

this go the same for the tea?  Is the tea safe? 









==========

Subject: Re: Can Sassafrass Cause Cancer?

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 22:25:27 GMT

--------

In article <1993Nov3.211320.8493@wkuvx1> Dreamer, baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

> I read in a fairly new book about herbs and stuff "Magic and Medicine

> of Plants" (Reader's Digest thing) .. It said something about

> Sassafrass "The US Food and Drug Administration lists sassafras oil as

> "unsafe" because of determinations that the safrole in the oil is a

> potential carcinogen" (Carcinogen - Cancer Causing Agent.. ) .. does

> this go the same for the tea?  Is the tea safe? 



According to Coon, safrole is a potent inhibitor of certain liver enymes (or

so it is claimed).  Nothing in any of my sources, however, indicates how *much*

safrole was fed to the lab animals at one time (I assume it was done that way:

the

experience of the American public with saccharin comes immediately to mind).

 Perhaps one of the professionals on the group can tell us more.

 __

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Re: Can Sassafrass Cause Cancer?

From: rharvey@charlie.usd.edu

Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 15:17:16 GMT

--------

In article <CFznMG.MHC@jabba.ess.harris.com>, Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com> writes:

>In article <1993Nov3.211320.8493@wkuvx1> Dreamer, baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

>> I read in a fairly new book about herbs and stuff "Magic and Medicine

>> of Plants" (Reader's Digest thing) .. It said something about

>> Sassafrass "The US Food and Drug Administration lists sassafras oil as

>> "unsafe" because of determinations that the safrole in the oil is a

>> potential carcinogen" (Carcinogen - Cancer Causing Agent.. ) .. does

>> this go the same for the tea?  Is the tea safe? 

>

>According to Coon, safrole is a potent inhibitor of certain liver enymes (or

>so it is claimed).  Nothing in any of my sources, however, indicates how *much*

>safrole was fed to the lab animals at one time (I assume it was done that way:

>the

>experience of the American public with saccharin comes immediately to mind).

> Perhaps one of the professionals on the group can tell us more.

> __

>Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)



In _The Way of Herbs_ by Micheal Tierra, he says that safrole, when isolated

and fed to rats and mice, did result in the formation of liver tumors. 

However, he cites a 1977 Swiss study in which sassafras was given my mouth to

humans, and it did not metabolize into 1'-hydroxysafrole, which is the

metabolist that makes safrole carcinogenic.  His conclusion is that there is

something in whole sassafras that prevents it from causing cancer in people. 

He also states that safrole is found in many other common foods such as basil,

nutmeg, and black pepper.



IMHO, the Reader's Digest book expresses a very patronizing attitude towards

herbal medicine.  I understand that such a widely read publisher must be

cautious about what harm people might cause with a little, but not nearly

enough knowledge about medicinal herbs.  However, I found the constant warnings

about almost every herb to be a bit much.  Sassafras is a prime example. 

There's an awful lot of people out there who drink sassafras as a beverage (not

medicinally) who enjoy it and seem to be in excellent health.  Most people, if

they use their common sense, even when using herbs medicinally, will not overdo

 or misuse them, just as most people are able to responsibly handle

over-the-counter drugs.  It's good to be careful, but no need to be paranoid. 

 Besides, if a person could manage to avoid every potentially carcinogenic or otherwise harmful compound, you'd have

to live a terribly isolated and boring life!!!



---Renee

   rharvey@charlie.usd.edu









==========

Subject: Re: Can Sassafrass Cause Cancer?

From: baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet (Dreamer)

Date: 7 Nov 93 20:56:28 CST

--------

In article <CG0yGt.AzE@sunfish.usd.edu>, rharvey@charlie.usd.edu writes:

> In article <CFznMG.MHC@jabba.ess.harris.com>, Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com> writes:

>>In article <1993Nov3.211320.8493@wkuvx1> Dreamer, baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

>>> I read in a fairly new book about herbs and stuff "Magic and Medicine

>>> of Plants" (Reader's Digest thing) .. It said something about

>>> Sassafrass "The US Food and Drug Administration lists sassafras oil as

>>> "unsafe" because of determinations that the safrole in the oil is a

>>> potential carcinogen" (Carcinogen - Cancer Causing Agent.. ) .. does

>>> this go the same for the tea?  Is the tea safe? 

>>

>>According to Coon, safrole is a potent inhibitor of certain liver enymes (or

>>so it is claimed).  Nothing in any of my sources, however, indicates how *much*

>>safrole was fed to the lab animals at one time (I assume it was done that way:

>>the

>>experience of the American public with saccharin comes immediately to mind).

>> Perhaps one of the professionals on the group can tell us more.

>> __

>>Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)

> 

> In _The Way of Herbs_ by Micheal Tierra, he says that safrole, when isolated

> and fed to rats and mice, did result in the formation of liver tumors. 

> However, he cites a 1977 Swiss study in which sassafras was given my mouth to

> humans, and it did not metabolize into 1'-hydroxysafrole, which is the

> metabolist that makes safrole carcinogenic.  His conclusion is that there is

> something in whole sassafras that prevents it from causing cancer in people. 

> He also states that safrole is found in many other common foods such as basil,

> nutmeg, and black pepper.

> 

> IMHO, the Reader's Digest book expresses a very patronizing attitude towards

> herbal medicine.  I understand that such a widely read publisher must be

> cautious about what harm people might cause with a little, but not nearly

> enough knowledge about medicinal herbs.  However, I found the constant warnings

> about almost every herb to be a bit much.  Sassafras is a prime example. 

> There's an awful lot of people out there who drink sassafras as a beverage (not

> medicinally) who enjoy it and seem to be in excellent health.  Most people, if

> they use their common sense, even when using herbs medicinally, will not overdo

>  or misuse them, just as most people are able to responsibly handle

> over-the-counter drugs.  It's good to be careful, but no need to be paranoid. 

>  Besides, if a person could manage to avoid every potentially carcinogenic or otherwise harmful compound, you'd have

> to live a terribly isolated and boring life!!!

> 

> ---Renee

>    rharvey@charlie.usd.edu





Hmm.  I think I am going to trust you out of all those replys.  When

is the best time to dig up the roots to make tea?  



Thank you for all the info. 









==========

Subject: Re: Can Sassafrass Cause Cancer?

From: baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet (Dreamer)

Date: 7 Nov 93 11:45:04 CST

--------

In article <CFznMG.MHC@jabba.ess.harris.com>, Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com> writes:

> In article <1993Nov3.211320.8493@wkuvx1> Dreamer, baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

>> I read in a fairly new book about herbs and stuff "Magic and Medicine

>> of Plants" (Reader's Digest thing) .. It said something about

>> Sassafrass "The US Food and Drug Administration lists sassafras oil as

>> "unsafe" because of determinations that the safrole in the oil is a

>> potential carcinogen" (Carcinogen - Cancer Causing Agent.. ) .. does

>> this go the same for the tea?  Is the tea safe? 

> 

> According to Coon, safrole is a potent inhibitor of certain liver enymes (or

> so it is claimed).  Nothing in any of my sources, however, indicates how *much*

> safrole was fed to the lab animals at one time (I assume it was done that way:

> the

> experience of the American public with saccharin comes immediately to mind).

>  Perhaps one of the professionals on the group can tell us more.

>  __

> Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)





Hmm.. Would the tea be the same?  It says "in the oil of the bark on

the root".. 









==========

Subject: Herbs,  Something for everyone!

From: ramona@stacie.West.Sun.COM (Ramona)

Date: 4 Nov 1993 19:28:31 GMT

--------

Hello,



I am really excited that I just found this alias Today.  I have had a

wonderful experience with herbs, and it is really hard to get most

people to try something natural.  So I have decided to post here, where I

can get support and learn.  

I have never been into herbs in my life (until now) and always did what

the doctors told me to do.  You know medications for headaches,

depression, allergies, and irritable bowl syndrome.  I was a total

caffeine addict (up to 15 cups a day) and that did not seem to bother

the doctor to much.  Well after being on antidepressants for three

years needless to say I have gained about 46 lbs.  Anyway to make a

long story short.  I was introduced to a company called Enrich that

sales herbs.  No chemicals and all organically grown.  I was really not

to sure about them because I had never tried herbs in my life.  But

when someone said, "it's all organic.  Its Gods medicine.  Well I started

taking herbs around the end of August for weight loss, loss of inches

and energy.  Well at the end of November will be three months.  Not only have

I lost 3 inches in the hips and 5 inches in the waist,  I have gained a

lot of energy.  I am off my antidepressants, allergy medicine and I

drink a herb drink in place of the coffee I drink all day. It gives me

energy and it does a lot of wonderful things for your body.



I have a book great book I would like to share with you!  You look up

your problem and it will tell you what herbs it recommends.  I have not

tired all of them (175 kinds), but there is something for everything

you can think of.  It is really worth looking at.  Everything I have

read today on the posting is in the book.  

Let me tell you I am a true believer about herbs.  

When I am having a problem with my body, I just look it up and

order it instead of going to the doctor.  

Theses herbs are fantastic and I feel great!



If you would like to have a book to look over these herbs please let me know,

and I will be happy to send a book to you.  



Thanks,

Ramona











==========

Subject: re: Herbs,  Something for everyone!

From: jagordon@agsm.ucla.edu

Date: 4 Nov 1993 21:56:09 GMT

--------



In article <2bbl4v$829@newscast.West.Sun.COM> ramona@stacie.West.Sun.COM writes:

>Hello,

>

>I am really excited that I just found this alias Today.  I have had a

>wonderful experience with herbs, and it is really hard to get most

>people to try something natural.  So I have decided to post here, where I

>can get support and learn.  

stuff deleted

>I have a book great book I would like to share with you!  You look up

>your problem and it will tell you what herbs it recommends.  I have not

>tired all of them (175 kinds), but there is something for everything

>you can think of.  It is really worth looking at.  Everything I have

>read today on the posting is in the book.  

>Let me tell you I am a true believer about herbs.  

>When I am having a problem with my body, I just look it up and

>order it instead of going to the doctor.  

>Theses herbs are fantastic and I feel great!

>

>If you would like to have a book to look over these herbs please let me know,

>and I will be happy to send a book to you.  

>



Is it just me or do I smell a multi-level marketing venture here?

Jan









==========

Subject: Re: Herbs,  Something for everyone!

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 22:32:42 GMT

--------

In article <2bbtpp$3j7@news.mic.ucla.edu> , jagordon@agsm.ucla.edu writes:

> >If you would like to have a book to look over these herbs please let me

know,

> >and I will be happy to send a book to you.  

> >

> 

> Is it just me or do I smell a multi-level marketing venture here?

> Jan



New converts to *anything* tend to gush.  She never mentioned the book title,

after all.  It would have been nice, though, had she tried products from more

than one company.  Health food stores, for instance, frequently sell herbs in

bulk for a mere fraction of the cost of ordering from a catalog (a comment

addressed

to the first poster and not to everyone who already knows this and is ready

with flames in which grandmothers and sucked eggs figure prominently.)

__

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: to: ... the printer guy

From: mineault@zebu.cvm.msu.edu (NEAULT, MICHAEL)

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 22:49:15 GMT

--------

A while back you expressed interest in getting information from me about 

Veterinary folklore cures.  I have been trying to e-mail you for sometime, but 

my system won't let me send anything to you.  E-mail me back with your 

address, and I will send this info to you in a week or two.



mike neault









==========

Subject: migranes

From: aringl1@umbc2.umbc.edu

Date: 5 NOV 93 07:33:31 EST

--------

also try fennel. It is good for migrane type headaches!









==========

Subject: Ginseng seeds?

From: Rob.Stamper@launchpad.unc.edu (rob stamper)

Date: 6 Nov 1993 20:55:42 GMT

--------

I am looking for the address of any company that sells fresh ginseng

seeds.  Any information would be extremely helpful.  Thanks.

     Rob





--

   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of

     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information

        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.

           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80









==========

Subject: Re: Ginseng seeds?

From: j0m1742@venus.tamu.edu (MANHART, JAMES)

Date: 9 Nov 1993 19:40 CDT

--------

In article <1993Nov9.214444.22179@lehman.com>, jackvg@lehman.com writes...

>	I have been looking for Ginseng seeds also.  Anyone know of

>anybody who sells them?

> 

> 



I believe that Parks Seeds had them available at one time.  If you

cannot locate them in the seed catalogs, you might try to find

a ginseng grower who could supply you with seeds.  There are growers

in the southeast U.S. and I believe there is at least one large

grower in Wisconsin but I do not have any names at hand.





*********************************************************************

Jim Manhart, Dept. of Biology, Texas A&M University, College Station, 

TX 77843-3258, (409) 845-3356, email:  J-Manhart@TAMU.EDU (Internet) 

*********************************************************************









==========

Subject: Re: Ginseng seeds?

From: behlert@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Brian Ehlert)

Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 13:53:26 GMT

--------

In article <1993Nov9.214444.22179@lehman.com>,

Jack Van Geldern <jackvg@lehman.com> wrote:

>

>	I have been looking for Ginseng seeds also.  Anyone know of

>anybody who sells them?

Richters

Goodwood, Ontario

Canada  L0c 1A0

Phone: 416/640-6677

fax: 416/ 640-6641



Great selection, but catalog is not free.  They are worth the catalog cost.



BrianE

--

=========

"I sometimes wonder how people like you happen."

"The same as anyone else, mister, and its fun for a couple people for a 

while, and then the trouble starts."   -- Roger Zelazny









==========

Subject: <None>

From: baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet (Dreamer)

Date: 7 Nov 93 10:46:07 CST

--------

What do you do about cysts caused by breathing in toxic chemicals like

gasoline, and so forth?   (Pin-head sized cysts)



Thank you for any help with this.









==========

Subject: <None>

From: phuyett@vax1.umkc.edu

Date: 14 Mar 94 16:21:47 CST

--------

Double blind studies have shown feverfew works on migraines.  You have to take

it every day.  One or two capsules.  A friend who tried this found that he had

fewer migraines and when he did have one, it wasn't as bad an he could knock it

out easily with Excedrine.















==========

Subject: <None>

From: phuyett@vax1.umkc.edu

Date: 1 Apr 94 13:26:20 CST

--------

My favorite herb book is * Natural Healing with herbs* by Humbart Santillo.  I

use it all the time.  There's another good one by Penny C. Royal (obviously not

her real name) but I don't recall the title.











==========

Subject: <None>

From: johnsg@carleton.edu

Date: 10 May 94 23:14:42 CST

--------

What are some good uses for Marigold?  I know they keep away some bugs, but do

they have many medicinal purposes?  I have a lovely pot full of them growing

now, and I wonder if they'd be good for things





_______________________________________________________________________________

Gretchen Johns 						johnsg@carleton.edu

		Good Tea		Nice House









==========

Subject: <None>

From: jlynch@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu

Date: 17 Oct 94 14:59:27 CDT

--------

I use Wild lettuce extract for inducing sleep. It works well for me, but	

Valerian doesn't (go figure!).

                                     John Lynch



                                      jlynch@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu

Valerian di













==========

Subject: <None>

From: psmp@orion.alaska.edu

Date: 24 Oct 94 21:50:54 AST

--------

WGreetings from the Glacial Moraine....

When I was a child, my family used Ginger Ale to soothe the upset

stomach...this was when there were dirt roads where there are now

super highways....anyway, I've had the habit of drinking a tea of 

Ginger....it is INCREDIBLE for stomach upset....and earaches (to

confirm a recent post by another reader). Just buy fresh root at 

your favorit grocery store...cut it in thin slices, and boil it in

water...like a quart....you can boil the slices several times before

they lose their strength. We keep the liquid in the icebox in a 

jug, and heat a cup at a time....use it daily....

Glacier Gruff











==========

Subject: - Cysts - Toxic Chemicals

From: baxteam@wkuvx1.bitnet (Dreamer)

Date: 7 Nov 93 10:47:06 CST

--------

What are you to do about "Cysts" caused by breathing toxic chemicals

like Gasoline, propane, etc.  (Tiny pin-head sized cysts) 



Thank you for any help.









==========

Subject: herb recipes

From: grimya@cardinal.ksu.ksu.edu (Lyn/Grimya)

Date: 7 Nov 1993 13:40:51 -0600

--------







	Does anyone know of any good books that have recipes for perfume,

cosmetics, soaps, shampoos, etc?  I'd appreciate any information you might

have.



	Thanks!



Lyn









==========

Subject: mustard seed cancer remedy?

From: David L. Sobel <dsobel@igc.apc.org>

Date: 07 Nov 93 12:33 PST

--------



I have been advised by a homeopath to locate the root of the brown mustard seed

(BRASSICA JUNCEA) for treatment of a serious cancer condition.  I have looked

high and low and had no luck -- we did manage to get the seeds from a seed

company and grew our own plants but this supply went very quikly.  If anyone

has any ideas, it would be most appreciated (For instance, someone suggested 

contacting a company that makes brown mustard but I have not pursued this

idea.)



Please reply by E-Mail. Thank you for your cooperation.



dsobel@igc.apc.org











==========

Subject: pulmo vulpis (Wolf's Lung)

From: David L. Sobel <dsobel@igc.apc.org>

Date: 07 Nov 93 12:37 PST

--------



Does anyone know where PULMO VULPIS (Wolf's Lung) can be obtained?

It is a homeopathic remedy for a skin condition....maybe someone has

access to a homeopathic remedy source? 



Please reply by e-mail, thanks alot.



dsobel@igc.apc.org











==========

Subject: Nettles and High BP

From: henrys@netcom.com (Henry B. Smith)

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 16:22:32 GMT

--------

My wife is currently taking freeze dried nettles for her allergies

with good results.



In Earl Mindell's HERB BIBLE, on page 134, he shows the benefits of

nettles but does not list any side effects.



However, on page 218 he says to avoid nettles if you have high blood

pressure.  He gives no further information.



Does anybody have any information on the effect of nettles on blood pressure?



Henry.



-- 

Henry B. Smith - NA5K           |  henrys@netcom.com

1380 Camino Real                |  Home phone   (214) 562-3049

McKinney, TX 75069              |  Office phone (214) 333-6077









==========

Subject: Re: Nettles and High BP

From: j0m1742@venus.tamu.edu (MANHART, JAMES)

Date: 8 Nov 1993 13:21 CDT

--------

In article <henrysCG6LHK.85I@netcom.com>, henrys@netcom.com (Henry B. Smith) writes...



>In Earl Mindell's HERB BIBLE, on page 134, he shows the benefits of

>nettles but does not list any side effects.

> 

>However, on page 218 he says to avoid nettles if you have high blood

>pressure.  He gives no further information.

> 

>Does anybody have any information on the effect of nettles on blood pressure?



> 

Foster and Duke in "Eastern/Central Medicinal Plants" state that

studies have suggested that Urtica dioica (stinging nettle) may

be a CNS-depressant and that it "inhibits effects of adrenaline".

They give a set of references for the entire book but do not cite them

specifically.





*********************************************************************

Jim Manhart, Dept. of Biology, Texas A&M University, College Station, 

TX 77843-3258, (409) 845-3356, email:  J-Manhart@TAMU.EDU (Internet) 

*********************************************************************









==========

Subject: Scoville rating system for chilis...

From: dan@netcom.com (just Dan)

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 05:24:18 GMT

--------

quoting from Jean Andrews' _Peppers_, ISBN 0-292-76523-1:



"... An oral method employing human "guinea pigs" as a taste panel,

the Scoville Organoleptic Test of 1912, is still the most used means

of analysis."



(some numbers in here: bell:0, anaheim:1000, jalapeno and cayenne:2500

to 25000, tabasco:60000 to 80000)



and



"The test has many limitations, the first being that the subject

tested cannot be one who is accustomed to a diet of chili-peppers."



-- 

Dan Liddell   dan@netcom.com









==========

Subject: Re: Scoville rating system for chilis...

From: billgrae@echonyc.com (Bill Grae)

Date: 11 Nov 1993 08:52:22 GMT

--------

just Dan (dan@netcom.com) wrote:

: quoting from Jean Andrews' _Peppers_, ISBN 0-292-76523-1:



: "... An oral method employing human "guinea pigs" as a taste panel,

: the Scoville Organoleptic Test of 1912, is still the most used means

: of analysis."



: (some numbers in here: bell:0, anaheim:1000, jalapeno and cayenne:2500

: to 25000, tabasco:60000 to 80000)



[material deleted]



You forgot the grand poo-bah of the pepper world: the habenero, aka the

Scotch Bonnet Pepper (actually two different sub-species of the same pepper):

Scoville rating of 200 - 350,000.



And no, that's not a typo.  And yes, I do (pant pant) have personal

experience with these beauties.



--

Regards,



Bill Grae

billgrae@echonyc.com

____________________________________________________________________

Dulce est desipere in loco.  Whoop - there it is!









==========

Subject: Ma Huang

From: rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist)

Date: 10 Nov 1993 16:31:54 GMT

--------

Does anyone have any information on a herb called

"Ma Huang".  I took some pills last night with

Ma Huang (and a bunch of other herbs) and as

promised it seemed to give me a lot of energy;

I was up till 1AM, then woke up at 6AM without

being tired.



The pills were Herbalife "Thermogenics".



I have tried making tea from the actual dried

plants bought at a local health food store, but

didn't get much of an effect.



Does Ma Huang have caffiene?  I avoid all forms

of caffiene and didn't notice the usual

caffiene reaction from the pills, so I suspect

not (I'll know for sure if I don't get a headache

tonight).



Rick Karlquist

rkarlqu@scd.hp.com











==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: bdienes@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Bruce Dienes)

Date: 10 Nov 1993 19:35:22 GMT

--------

rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist) writes:



>Does anyone have any information on a herb called

>"Ma Huang".  I took some pills last night with

>Ma Huang (and a bunch of other herbs) and as

>promised it seemed to give me a lot of energy;

>I was up till 1AM, then woke up at 6AM without

>being tired.



>The pills were Herbalife "Thermogenics".



>I have tried making tea from the actual dried

>plants bought at a local health food store, but

>didn't get much of an effect.



>Does Ma Huang have caffiene?  I avoid all forms

>of caffiene and didn't notice the usual

>caffiene reaction from the pills, so I suspect

>not (I'll know for sure if I don't get a headache

>tonight).



>Rick Karlquist

>rkarlqu@scd.hp.com



My wife was using a MaHuang tincture to alleviate symptoms of Myasthenia

Gravis and it seemed to work well in giving her more energy.  However,

her naturopath cautioned her that the herb was toxic and not to be used

in high doses or over a prolonged period of uninterrupted time.  I think

it is also counterindicated for pregnant women.  It may well be that the

pills you are taking are not as potent as the tincture, so it may not be

as much of an issue.  Check with your naturopathic doctor for more

precise info.



Bruce













==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 22:34:18 GMT

--------

In article <2br51q$h4b@hpscit.sc.hp.com> Richard Karlquist, rkarlqu@scd.hp.com

writes:

> Does Ma Huang have caffiene?  I avoid all forms

> of caffiene and didn't notice the usual

> caffiene reaction from the pills, so I suspect

> not (I'll know for sure if I don't get a headache

> tonight).



No caffeine, at least none that's mentioned in any of my sources.  Ma Huang

is either _Ephedra gerardiana_, _E. sinica_, or _E. distachya_ (more likely

the second, as that's the species mentioned most often).  As may be guessed

from the name, it is the genus from which the drug Ephedrine was originally

derived for sufferers from practically any form of runny nose or bronchial

congestion.

 It does stimulate the cerebral cortex, according to one source, which may

result

 in hyperactivity.  According to another, the ephedrine is very similar in

chemical

 nature to adrenalin -- whence may come its stimulant properties.  Along with

 those properties, however, it can induce palpitation of the heart and

hypertension

 (I'm assuming this is the pure drug in fairly large doses).

 __

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: szikopou@superior.carleton.ca (Steven Zikopoulos)

Date: Sun, 29 May 1994 15:06:42 GMT

--------

In <2s5t08$qo0@marlin.ssnet.com> Keith <keith@marlin.ssnet.com> writes:



>In article <szikopou.769907433@superior> Steven Zikopoulos,

>szikopou@superior.carleton.ca writes:



>>actually according to the Merck index Ma Huang contains

>>pseudoephedrine in addition to ephedrine.



>Yes, but l-ephedrine base is quite water soluble (1g/20mL) while

>d-pseudoephedrine base is only "sparingly" soluble (according to the

>Merck Index)





unless the temp is specified the solubility comments are at "room

temp"...which is 20 or 25 degrees C...i don't recall.  a hot water

reflux would significantly increase the amont of p-epinephrine.



anyway...the reason i mentiond it was because someone claimed that

pseudoephedrine was synthetic and did not occur in nature.



sz





>--keith

-- 

Steven Zikopoulos <szikopou@ccs.carleton.ca>









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: RMyers@molbio.uoregon.edu (Rik Myers)

Date: 31 May 1994 04:30:01 GMT

--------

In article <CqH921.Loo@eskimo.com>, tinne@eskimo.com (Susan Profit) wrote:



> a close relative of

> the Ephedra sinica, E. Vulgaris was known variously as desert tea,

> Mormon tea, Squaw tea, teamster's tea, and Brigham Young Weed. It was

> taken by a lot of the native and Mormon women among others, and it was

> not taken for its sleep producing effects. When it was chemically

> analysed, and discovered to be a stimulant herb, it caused quite a shock

> in certain communities who made the assumption it was a harmless

> pleasant tasting tea with no stimulant effects to damage their women.



...and amphetamines calm hyperactive children and lysergic acid derivatives

ground the visions (prodromes) of migraine sufferers. There are many

well-documented cases of pharmacologically "antagognistic" compunds acting

bass-ackward (blessed be, another brain-teaser for the reductionists to

worry about).

-- 

Rik Myers

Zanga Zanga



**********************************************

* Earth is an asylum for angels with amnesia *

**********************************************









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: lizbla@aol.com (Liz BLA)

Date: 2 Oct 1994 00:57:02 -0400

--------

In article <31r8s6$97m@search01.news.aol.com>, martirem@aol.com (MartiRem)

writes:



For those of you out there who are using Ma Huang for appetite suppression

AND asthma please be forewarned:  Ma Huang is NOT intended for long term

use.  It is catagorized in Chinese medicine as a diaphoretic, an herb that

promotes perspiration and is to be used for short periods of time when a

person is experiencing an upper respiratory, viral infection with cold

symptoms (headache, tight stiff muscles, clear copious mucus).  

 

The same properties that promote sweating drain a person's energy; it is

fatiguing.  That is the reason one can initially feel energetic, but then

feel even more drained over time.  

 

Long term use of this herb is Contraindicated and is an abuse of the herb.

 There are other herbs to be used for chronic conditions (check with your

local Chinese herbal specialist, usually an acupuncturist who has studied

herbal therapeutics and formula preparation.  IF PEOPLE ABUSE THESE

GOD-GIVEN SUBSTANCES, SOME MEDIC FROM THE FDA WILL RAILROAD RESTRICTIONS

ON THESE FOOD SUBSTANCES.  

 











==========

Subject: Ma Huang 

From: nboals@amoco.com

Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 02:05:28 GMT

--------





 

 There were several postings about Ma Huang a while back that I didn't save.  

 Now my son is interested in taking something called PhaseI whose main

 ingredient is Ma Huang.  He has high blood pressure and his cousin died from 

 heart failure at 21 (yes, in college).  I tried to tell him that this a  

serious stimulant, but he wants to hear from it from someone else.  Anyone????	

 Thanks. 











==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: pawgep@aol.com (Paw Gep)

Date: 12 Oct 1994 19:17:05 -0400

--------

In article <1994Oct12.001404.28426@tdc.amoco.com>, nboals@amoco.com

writes:



>Now my son is interested in taking something called PhaseI whose main

 ingredient is Ma Huang.  He has high blood pressure and his cousin died

>from  

 heart failure at 21 (yes, in college).



Dear Son,



Do NOT use this stuff.



Get a clue!



-Paw Gep









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: weigand@stimpy.eecis.udel.edu (Steven Weigand)

Date: 13 Oct 1994 06:12:18 GMT

--------

In article <37hqph$oj4@newsbf01.news.aol.com> pawgep@aol.com (Paw Gep) writes:

>In article <1994Oct12.001404.28426@tdc.amoco.com>, nboals@amoco.com

>writes:

>

>>Now my son is interested in taking something called PhaseI whose main

> ingredient is Ma Huang.  He has high blood pressure and his cousin died

>from 

> heart failure at 21 (yes, in college).

>

>Dear Son,

>

>Do NOT use this stuff.

>

>Get a clue!



Yes,  ma-huang is pseudo-ephedra.  As you may recognize,  ephedra is 

the main ingredient in Ephadril.  It is a stimulant.  If used in short

periods,  it may pick you up from fealings of fatigue and wear due to

fevers/flus.  But,  if you continue use for prolonged amount of time,

it will have very negative effects on the body.  It will actually sap

energy later on, and will mess with blood pressure and heart rate.  It's

almost like caffeine.  At least, this is what I've been told.



 - Steve ("Not a doctor in any way,  just a humble hobbiest.") Weigand

  (weigand@udel.edu)











==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang 

From: morrison@cybrdrom.com (Amy Morrison)

Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 06:18:45 GMT

--------

nboals@amoco.com wrote:





:  

:  There were several postings about Ma Huang a while back that I didn't save.  

:  Now my son is interested in taking something called PhaseI whose main

:  ingredient is Ma Huang.  He has high blood pressure and his cousin died from 

:  heart failure at 21 (yes, in college).  I tried to tell him that this a  

: serious stimulant, but he wants to hear from it from someone else.  Anyone????	

:  Thanks. 



I just went to my Doctor today to get a refill on my Ventolin inhaler.

I showed the doctor of Breathe-Aid, a herbal formula which contains ephedrine

(the active ingredient of MaHuang.) He told me to stop taking it as it

was elevating my blood pressure (particularly the diastolic, I had a 

pressure of 128/92). And I had not even taken the pills today, I imagine

my blood pressure is higher on the days I do take them. I took three of 

the pills about 24 hours before going to the doctor. 128/92 is not

life threatening, but I normally have a blood pressure slightly on the

low side of normal. For someone who already has high blood pressure

to begin with, this could be very bad indeed. My bottle says it should

not be used by people with high blood pressure.











==========

Subject: RE:Ma Huang

From: rdower@csulb.edu (Robert Dower)

Date: 15 Oct 1994 07:27:27 GMT

--------

Phase I from Cybergenics is a very SAFE method of bodybuilding. Although 

one of the supplements does contain some ephedrine, which shouldn't be 

used by someone with high blood pressure, heart disease, etc., it is not 

necessary to use that particular supplement to do the Phase I training 

program. Remember, when you are buying one of the Cybergenics training 

programs, 90% of your results come from doing their training program and 

nutrition protocol. The supplements just support the program. The one 

supplement that contains the ephedra is not necessary to use the program 

since it is only for energy, it does not provide any nutrition to support 

the program. BTW, I would always recommend that anyone starting any kind 

of bodybuilding or exercise program should consult a physician, 

especially those with underlying medical conditions. However, Phase I is 

a perfectly safe and effective approach to bodybuildingfor a otherwise 

healthy person. Just to balance the record.



                           Robert









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: moreta@prostar.com (Moreta)

Date: Sat, 15 Oct 94 11:02:58 PST

--------





The thing you have to remember about Ma Huang is that it builds up in

your system.. its not totally water soulable.. its not a herb to be

using to gain "energy" from.  Its also advisable to not take it if you

have a history of hypertention, cardiac problems etc.. without the

guidence of a professional.. also if you are pregnant it can cause a

spontanious abortion in some women..



Mo









==========

Subject: Ma Huang

From: Lyn.Robinson@mysteria.expressnet.org (Lyn Robinson)

Date: 17 Oct 94 00:12:24 -0800

--------

Ma Haung is not recommended for people with high blood pressure. Why would he

like to take it? There may be other herbs that will do the job, but would be

better for him.

--

|Expressnet:  Lyn Robinson 11:310/18

|Internet: Lyn.Robinson@mysteria.expressnet.org

|

| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.











==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: YOUNG@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (STEPHEN YOUNG)

Date: 10 Dec 1994 16:19:57 GMT

--------

In <3cbndh$cuq@louie.udel.edu> weigand@stimpy.eecis.udel.edu writes:



> In article <3cagiq$28p@news.mic.ucla.edu> aramirez@agsm.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:

> >I have heard of two uses for the Chinese herb Ma Huang.  (I forget the

> >botanical name.  Might be ephedra.) One is for

> >clearing congestion out of the lungs, and it is used as an important

> >ingredient in Breathe Easy tea.  Secondly, it is supposed to do

> >something to fat (i.e., help get rid of it.)  Has anyone had

> >experience, positive or negative, in its fat-burning uses?

> 

> Hmmm.. That makes sense that ma huang should burn fat.  It's just 

> like any of those diet pills you see that contains caffeine or the 

> like.  Basically, ma huang is a stimulant.   It is pseudo-ephedra,



	It is my understanding that Ma Haung is a natural source of of Ephedra

and not pseudo-ephedra. Pseudo-ephedra is a man made form of ephedra hence the

name PSEUDO-ephedra. :-)

	Just observations from stuff I have read. Cheers,

							Stephen





> I believe. One would use it for colds, flus,  respiratory problems,

> etc.  I don't know the difference between ephedra and psuedo-ephedra,

> but ephedra is, I think, the main ingredient in Ephedril.  

> 

> One word of caution, though.  Like many drugs,  it is not intended 

> for daily everyday use.  It's only to be used temporarily.  That makes

> it fairly useless as a weight loss pill,  except if you don't care

> about your life.

> 

> Oh well... Ciao for now,

>  - Steve "Not a doctor, just a guy" Weigand

>   (weigand@udel.edu)

> 









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: rfisher@indirect.com (Ron Fisher)

Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 03:23:28 GMT

--------



Unless I've missed it somewhere, I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned 

that Ma Huang also can raise blood pressure.



--



rfisher@indirect.com

"Drop Me A Line Sometime"













==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: brumstik@interaccess.com (broomstick)

Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 10:57:50

--------

In article <D0s6r5.9A6@indirect.com> rfisher@indirect.com (Ron Fisher) writes:

>From: rfisher@indirect.com (Ron Fisher)

>Subject: Re: Ma Huang

>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 03:23:28 GMT





>Unless I've missed it somewhere, I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned 

>that Ma Huang also can raise blood pressure.



Actually, it has been mentioned.  I'm not surprised, as most stimulants and 

bronchiodialators (Ma Huang is a mild one compared to say, Albuterol) have 

this side effect, as well as many decongestants.  I'm sure there's an 

explanation (anyone out there know it?) but what I don't know myself.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

			|

>---Broomstick---	| "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains,

			| however improbable, must be the truth."

			|				-- S. Holmes

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------













==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: hisbn461@unix.cc.emory.edu (Paul David Menair)

Date: 14 Dec 1994 23:44:36 GMT

--------

Andre Paquette (bk131@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

: In a previous posting, Alice Ramirez (aramirez@agsm.ucla.edu) writes:

: > I have heard of two uses for the Chinese herb Ma Huang.  (I forget the

: > botanical name.  Might be ephedra.)

: > 

: I'm pretty sure that when you try to use Ma Huang for Fat burning you also

: have to take caffeine to properly activate it.  



Ephedra sinica.  Contains ephedrine, adrenelin, and nor-epinephrine.  

Commonly found in herbal "energy" pills and herbal alternatives to OTC 

decongestant drugs.  It's a stimulant, with diaphoretic (sweat-inducing), 

diuretic and decongestant properties.  It may be better for you than 

dexatrim, or those white-cross tabs you find in truck stops and in the 

back of magazines (which are, BTW, ephedrine pills...).  But in essence 

what you are doing by taking Ma Huang is substituting an herbal source 

for a common chemical constituent of the diet pills at your local drug store.



There are other herbal approaches to weight loss, which other people 

probably know more about than I do.  Basically, my understanding is that 

it may be possible to treat underlying (and interlocking) disorders of 

digestion, metabolism and mood which lead to the overwieght condition.  

There are various formulas on the market which attempt or purport to do 

this.  Who knows if they work, but the idea seems more attractive to me 

than intense, single herb stimulant therapy.



I don't know what a cup of coffee would do to "activate" Ephedra.  

I've seen Ma Huang formulas, and none of the ones I've seen involve 

caffeine.  But caffeine is also, of course, a common ingredient of diet 

pills...











==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: brumstik@interaccess.com (broomstick)

Date: Sat, 24 Dec 1994 08:28:10

--------

In article <3d101i$joj@newsbf01.news.aol.com> plantmed@aol.com (PlantMed) writes:

>From: plantmed@aol.com (PlantMed)

>Subject: Re: Ma Huang

>Date: 18 Dec 1994 04:40:02 -0500



>In article <3cagiq$28p@news.mic.ucla.edu>, aramirez@agsm.ucla.edu (Alice

>Ramirez) writes:



>Fat-burning is a misuse of Ma Huang, and that will likely be the reason

>the FDA will ban it.  Ma Huang is used traditionally in combination with

>other herbs to balance its side effects, such as rapid heartbeat, high

>blood pressure.  It is used for asthma and "cold-type" external disorders

>in Chinese diagnostics.



Rumors, rumors, rumors....



Seriously, IS the FDA planning to ban Ma Huang and/or other varieties of 

Ephedra?  Don't give me "my friend heard from HIS friend and they said 

that..." kind of info, I want HARD FACTS.



I know the FDA is under pressure from the industrio-pharmaceutical types to 

ban herbal remedies - the reasons usually given are that they are "dangerous" 

(so is crossing the street) or that "they don't work" which WE know is bovine 

excretement.



Anyone got hard info out there?  I'm particularly concerned about Ma Huang as 

it gets me through the pollen season.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

			|

>---Broomstick---	| "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains,

			| however improbable, must be the truth."

			|				-- S. Holmes

------------------------------------------------------------------------------











==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: plantmed@aol.com (PlantMed)

Date: 24 Dec 1994 12:20:13 -0500

--------

The FDA is currently "investigating" Ma Huang due to a couple of toxic

overdoses.  Luckily, the new law makes it more difficult for them, but

Chinese products are very easy to stop simply by denying them entry.  The

FDA regularly bans Chinese patent medicines due to certain ingredients.  I

know of at least ten medicines that we have lost.  A couple of them were

rightfully banned, since they had pharmaceutical ingredients, but a number

of banned products simply had ingredients that the FDA decided were toxic,

even though there have never been any toxic reactions.  Most people don't

know about this, since these products are used mostly by Chinese people

and acupuncturists.  Since Ma Huang is currently abused in so-called

"energy" products as well as in some decongestants, there have been toxic

reactions.  We can only hope that the FDA exercises some restraint while

investigating this herb.









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: E. M. Tatsuhwa <me194@delphi.com>

Date: Wed, 28 DEC 94 23:50:15 -0500

--------

PlantMed <plantmed@aol.com> writes:

 

>and acupuncturists.  Since Ma Huang is currently abused in so-called

>"energy" products as well as in some decongestants, there have been toxic

>reactions.  We can only hope that the FDA exercises some restraint while

 

   What kind of toxic reactions are they?  I'm hypoglycemic and, though I can

usually regulate ny blood-sugar with nutritional supplements, I sometimes

_have_to_ use Ma Hung as a stimulant when my blood-sugar bottoms out, or suffer

lethargy & a deep sleep similar to a black-out (which sucks when I have to

work or function in school).  Ma Hung is the only herb/stimulant I've found

that let's me function completely fine even when I'm aware that my blood-sugar

just sank into a dark pit.  I can look down and say "Ha!  I no longer suffer

down in that pit!"  I use other herbs of course, but none have the immediate

effect (if I need it, I need it within 30 min. or I'm gone) and the overpowering

effect of Ma Hung.  All other herbs that I've tried or currently use, take about

12 hours to a week or more and are still quite subtle:  Fine for the long term,

but useless for the now.









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: plantmed@aol.com (PlantMed)

Date: 30 Dec 1994 04:51:30 -0500

--------

PlantMed <plantmed@aol.com> writes:

 

>and acupuncturists.  Since Ma Huang is currently abused in so-called

>"energy" products as well as in some decongestants, there have been toxic

>reactions.  We can only hope that the FDA exercises some restraint while

 

 >  What kind of toxic reactions are they?  I'm hypoglycemic and, though I

can

usually regulate ny blood-sugar with nutritional supplements, I sometimes

_have_to_ use Ma Hung as a stimulant when my blood-sugar bottoms out, or

suffer

lethargy & a deep sleep similar to a black-out (which sucks when I have to

work or function in school).  Ma Hung is the only herb/stimulant I've

found

that let's me function completely fine even when I'm aware that my

blood-sugar

just sank into a dark pit.  I can look down and say "Ha!  I no longer

suffer

down in that pit!"  I use other herbs of course, but none have the

immediate

effect (if I need it, I need it within 30 min. or I'm gone) and the

overpowering

effect of Ma Hung.  All other herbs that I've tried or currently use, take

about

12 hours to a week or more and are still quite subtle:  Fine for the long

term,

but useless for the now.>







Reply from plantmed:

The most common side effects are rapid heartbeat and raised blood

pressure.  If Ma Huang gives you energy, then so does coffee or speed. 

This so-called energy is simply your autonomic nervous system cranking up.

 An experienced practitioner would focus on normalizing your blood sugar

with diet and herbs in order to produce true energy.









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: brumstik@interaccess.com (broomstick)

Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 12:31:29

--------

In article <3e0l72$m16@newsbf02.news.aol.com> plantmed@aol.com (PlantMed) writes:

>From: plantmed@aol.com (PlantMed)

>Subject: Re: Ma Huang

>Date: 30 Dec 1994 04:51:30 -0500



>PlantMed <plantmed@aol.com> writes:

> 

>>and acupuncturists.  Since Ma Huang is currently abused in so-called

>>"energy" products as well as in some decongestants, there have been toxic

>>reactions.  We can only hope that the FDA exercises some restraint while

> 

> >  What kind of toxic reactions are they?  I'm hypoglycemic and, though I

>can

>usually regulate ny blood-sugar with nutritional supplements, I sometimes

>_have_to_ use Ma Hung as a stimulant when my blood-sugar bottoms out, or

>suffer

>lethargy & a deep sleep similar to a black-out (which sucks when I have to

>work or function in school).  Ma Hung is the only herb/stimulant I've

>found

>that let's me function completely fine even when I'm aware that my

>blood-sugar

>just sank into a dark pit.



[snip]



>Reply from plantmed:

>The most common side effects are rapid heartbeat and raised blood

>pressure.  If Ma Huang gives you energy, then so does coffee or speed. 

>This so-called energy is simply your autonomic nervous system cranking up.

> An experienced practitioner would focus on normalizing your blood sugar

>with diet and herbs in order to produce true energy.



This last paragraph could only have been posted by someone who DOESN'T suffer 

a metabolic disorder (no offense - just an observation).



While a proper diet IS key to normalizing hypoglycemia (or many other 

metabolic disorders) there ARE times when this is not possible.



For example:  you go somewhere, your car breaks down, you're stranded, this 

throws you off your diet and meal schedule, the added stress causes your body 

to burn energy faster, etc.  Before you know it, you're heading for a 

blackout.  This will happen no matter how well you eat otherwise.



You go on a trip, and when you look for food (it's mealtime) all you can find 

is either deep fried, high fat garbage or donuts - both of which will cause a 

hypoglycemic problems.  So, you're a hundred (or more) miles from home, your 

plane is going to take off in five minutes what do you do?  Take your lunch?  

If you can!  If you cross an international border or board an airplane this 

may be forbidden by law, to carry food with you!  Don't travel?  What if your 

job requires it?  What if it's to visit a sick relative?



OCCASSIONAL use of Ma Huang to tide one over in such situation is NOT abuse, 

it is USE.  The problem is when this gets to be a daily thing.



=============================================================================

			|

>---Broomstick---	| If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains,

			| however improbable, must be the truth.

			|				-- S. Holmes

=============================================================================











==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: rfisher@indirect.com (Ron Fisher)

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 04:09:54 GMT

--------

PlantMed (plantmed@aol.com) wrote:

: PlantMed <plantmed@aol.com> writes:

:  

: lethargy & a deep sleep similar to a black-out (which sucks when I have to

: work or function in school).  Ma Hung is the only herb/stimulant I've

: found

: that let's me function completely fine even when I'm aware that my

: blood-sugar

: just sank into a dark pit.



: Reply from plantmed:

: The most common side effects are rapid heartbeat and raised blood

: pressure.



[stuff deleted from above]



It seems to me the most significant element has been overlooked.  If you 

know your blood sugar is low (you can feel it), and if you feel as 

though you will begin to sink into a "dark pit", then I really think you 

should leave the herbs alone for the moment and reach for something to 

elevate your blood sugar.  If left to run its course, this "dark pit" may 

be the last thing you get into before a coffin.  You can quickly and 

easily lose touch when you reach this stage.  Within minutes you may not 

have the ability to reach for anything.



Take care of yourself immediately by RAISING YOUR SUGAR.  Then try to 

stabalize your diet when you have time to spare.



Some herbs which may help are Licorice, Marshmallow, Valerian, Skullcap, 

and Juniper.



Health and happiness in the New Year!



--

    ____  ____

   /___/ /__isher

  / \on /           rfisher@indirect.com













==========

Subject: Ma Huang

From: sstaf@aol.com (SStaf)

Date: 11 Jul 1995 22:15:13 -0400

--------

How can I tell the difference between genuine Ma Huang and product that

has been adulterated with ephedrine (I have a well-equipped lab)?









==========

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: p_iannone@pop.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: 12 Jul 1995 05:18:01 GMT

--------

In message ID <3tvb7h$72@newsbf02.news.aol.com> on 7/11/95, SStaf wrote:



: How can I tell the difference between genuine Ma Huang and product that

: has been adulterated with ephedrine (I have a well-equipped lab)?



Presence of synthetic forms:



"(-)-Ephedrine and (+)-pseudoephedrine occur in plant material; (+)-ephedrine

and (-)-pseudoephedrine are synthetic products."



Percentage of components --might-- be another way:



"about 1% total alkaloid containing 63%-34% ephedrine and 20%-34%

pseudoephedrine was obtained."



Both quotes from the excellent abstract in Chinese Drugs of Plant Origin

(Tang, Eisenbrand. Springer Verlag, Berlin, 1992)



--Paul  ||  p_iannone@pop.com

--









==========

Subject: primrose oil & asthma

From: blakstar@nevada.edu (JOHN BARTLEY)

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 16:37:04 GMT

--------





	can anyone tell me if evening primrose oil tablets has an effect 

on people with asthma??



please reply to blakstar@redrock.nevada.edu





thanxs,

blakstar









==========

Subject: Dealing with a cold

From: saurvok@kaiwan.com (Southern California)

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 19:41:22 GMT

--------



Hi,

 

  Does anyone have some herbal folklore treatments 

for dealing with a cold?  Any suggestions

would be appreciated. 

 

Thank you.            











==========

Subject: Re: Dealing with a cold

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 10 Nov 1993 14:12 PST

--------

In article <CGAK0y.K3w@kaiwan.com>, saurvok@kaiwan.com (Southern California) writes...

# 

#Hi,

# 

#  Does anyone have some herbal folklore treatments 

#for dealing with a cold?  Any suggestions

#would be appreciated. 

# 

#Thank you.            

# 





  Outside of Chicken Soup and fresh-squeexed lemon in gingerale, I use

 the QUEST Vitamins Herbal Formula 21 capsules which contain Golden Seal,

 Echinicea (I never can spell that), garlic, and Kelp, among other things.







 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: Re: Dealing with a cold

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 22:39:03 GMT

--------

In article <10NOV199314125235@erich.triumf.ca> FRED W. BACH,

music@erich.triumf.ca writes:

>   Outside of Chicken Soup and fresh-squeexed lemon in gingerale, I use

>  the QUEST Vitamins Herbal Formula 21 capsules which contain Golden Seal,

>  Echinicea (I never can spell that), garlic, and Kelp, among other things.



Or, you can get some of the *leaves* (NOT the fruit) of the ginko that shows

up so regularly in this newsgroup, drop them in boiling water and inhale the

vapors.  Ma huang (Ephedra sinica) may also be useful.

__

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Need help

From: rcarmelo@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu

Date: 10 Nov 93 16:16:26 CDT

--------

I am writing to you in hopes that someone can provide some info either about

a product or the company - what I am requesting info on is Nature's Nutrition

- Formula One it is distributed by Alliance USA out of Richardson, TX. The 

product is supposed to increase your energy level - it contains Ma Huang, Kola

Nut, Ginger, White Willow, Ginkgo Biloba, Bladderwrack among other things

if anyone knows about these herbs or the company please let me know.  Thanks

Rose









==========

Subject: Re: Need help

From: billgrae@echonyc.com (Bill Grae)

Date: 11 Nov 1993 08:55:51 GMT

--------

rcarmelo@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:

: I am writing to you in hopes that someone can provide some info either about

: a product or the company - what I am requesting info on is Nature's Nutrition

: - Formula One it is distributed by Alliance USA out of Richardson, TX. The 

: product is supposed to increase your energy level - it contains Ma Huang, Kola

: Nut, Ginger, White Willow, Ginkgo Biloba, Bladderwrack among other things

: if anyone knows about these herbs or the company please let me know.  Thanks

: Rose



Gotu kola and ginkgo are both used in Ayurvedic medicine as brain tonics -

one's supposed to help clear and focus the mind, the other's supposed to

give your thoughts energy, but I forget which is which.



(as you can tell, I haven't tried either one myself)



Regards,



Bill Grae

billgrae@echonyc.com

____________________________________________________________________

Dulce est desipere in loco.  Whoop - there it is!









==========

Subject: Re: Herbal Detox Bath

From: Dave_Watson@mindlink.bc.ca (Dave Watson)

Date: 11 Nov 93 00:09:07 GMT

--------

Jack Van Geldern writes:



Msg-ID: <1993Nov9.214957.22481@lehman.com>

Posted: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 21:49:57



Org.  : Lehman Brothers, Inc.



        A while ago, someone posted a herbal bath for detoxing.  Anybody

still have a copy they could email me?



        Thanks.









I'd like a copy of this too, please. It might be better to just have to clean

the bathtub than to keep throwing away t-shirts













==========

Subject: eczema

From: abetts@crc.ac.uk (Mr. A.M. Betts)

Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 16:32:07 GMT

--------

Hi all,

	As a recent subscriber to this group I am probably repeating requests

	that have been posted before. My question is does anyone know of a

	remedy for reducing the symptoms of eczema? I realise there are 

	many general remedies for this sort of thing but has anyone had a 

	particular sucess with any special herb? I am currently using a 

	mixture of some seven prescribed by a chineese herbalist but they

	dont seem to be helping much......

	any news/views much appreciated....



			Alan



	~r .sig











==========

Subject: Re: eczema

From: j0m1742@venus.tamu.edu (MANHART, JAMES)

Date: 12 Nov 1993 12:57 CDT

--------

In article <1993Nov12.163207.1957@crc.ac.uk>, abetts@crc.ac.uk (Mr. A.M. Betts) writes...

>Hi all,

>	As a recent subscriber to this group I am probably repeating requests

>	that have been posted before. My question is does anyone know of a

>	remedy for reducing the symptoms of eczema? I realise there are 

>	many general remedies for this sort of thing but has anyone had a 

>	particular sucess with any special herb? 







Actually, I think your post is the first I have seen about eczema.

I believe that eczema is an autoimmune disease, like hives.  You might

try changing your diet, soaps, or try to come up with anything that

you changed about the time the trouble started.  I had problems with

eczema at one time; it appeared and then went away for reasons unknown.

You might also try some stress reduction techniques, they may help and 

can't possibly make it worse.









*********************************************************************

Jim Manhart, Dept. of Biology, Texas A&M University, College Station, 

TX 77843-3258, (409) 845-3356, email:  J-Manhart@TAMU.EDU (Internet) 

*********************************************************************









==========

Subject: Re: eczema

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 12 Nov 1993 12:45 PST

--------

In article <12NOV199312572651@venus.tamu.edu>, j0m1742@venus.tamu.edu (MANHART, JAMES) writes...

#In article <1993Nov12.163207.1957@crc.ac.uk>, abetts@crc.ac.uk (Mr. A.M. Betts) writes...

#>Hi all,

#>	As a recent subscriber to this group I am probably repeating requests

#>	that have been posted before. My question is does anyone know of a

#>	remedy for reducing the symptoms of eczema? I realise there are 

#>	many general remedies for this sort of thing but has anyone had a 

#>	particular sucess with any special herb? 

# 

# 

#Actually, I think your post is the first I have seen about eczema.

#I believe that eczema is an autoimmune disease, like hives.  You might





     Well, you may be correct, but I was always taught that it was an

 allergic reaction to something in the environment or something eaten.





#try changing your diet, soaps, or try to come up with anything that





    Indeed.  I am very allergic to perfumed soaps and I had a heck of

 a time with something between hives and eczema when I changed from

 Lifebouy to Zest.  Two "doctors" couldn't find it but the third one

 recognized it immediately.  (He was in Edmonton, Alberta, where I

 went for a trip despite my illness.)



    My mother reacted this way to lanolin in her younger years, and

 my daughter now reacts to certain dish-washing detergents (she gets

 exzema on her forearms).  The effects are reproducible.  And, it

 seems a good excuse to get someone else to do the dishes! :-)



   Certain anti-histamines are helpful.  Also, in my case, they

 prescribed for me a certain cortizone-like hormone white cream that

 they said worked better on men.  I wish I could remember its name.





#you changed about the time the trouble started.  I had problems with

#eczema at one time; it appeared and then went away for reasons unknown.

#You might also try some stress reduction techniques, they may help and 

#can't possibly make it worse.





   Excellent advice, I second this advice.





#Jim Manhart, Dept. of Biology, Texas A&M University, College Station, 

#TX 77843-3258, (409) 845-3356, email:  J-Manhart@TAMU.EDU (Internet) 



 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: Re: eczema

From: u9217446@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca (K.M. Sperling)

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 16:31:00 GMT

--------

>>	My question is does anyone know of a

>>	remedy for reducing the symptoms of eczema?



I know of a person who had horrible eczema for the longest time until they

discovered they had an allergy which was causing it.  You might want to

get yourself tested for any allergies and then see if the condition

improves by avoiding them.



--Kathleen.









==========

Subject: eczema

From: kim@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca (kim wood)

Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:54:29 GMT

--------

Does anyone know of a herb or preparation which is useful in the treatment 

of eczema. My Son has a severe case with spots on his face, arms and legs. 

We've tried most of the usual creams etc.









==========

Subject: Re: eczema

From: fredl@leland.Stanford.EDU (Frederic Michael Luskin)

Date: 8 Apr 1994 18:05:40 GMT

--------

In article <kim.14.2DA58C45@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca>,

kim wood <kim@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca> wrote:

>Does anyone know of a herb or preparation which is useful in the treatment 

>of eczema. My Son has a severe case with spots on his face, arms and legs. 

>We've tried most of the usual creams etc.



The absolutely best cure I've seen for eczema is (hold on to your hats

folks...) urine! there are many misnomers on this miracle cure. urine

is not dirty or unhealthy as is feces. urine is the way the body maintains

a homeostasis. basically, the short story is that because of this, one's

urine is the perfect homeopathic remedy for the body. it is a perfect

snapshot of what the body needs right now to trigger a healing response.



there are two ways of using urine, topically and drinking. i won't get into

the drinking aspect now, but for eczema, have your son use a cotton pad

and saturate the areas of affected skin with urine every day at least

two times a day until it goes away. 



(quick caveat about drinking urine: never do this if you are on any

drugs. since the body uses urine to rid the body of drugs, drinking

it will recycle the drugs back into the body to toxic levels. *this

does not apply to topical use however.*)



at the same time, he needs to do internal cleansing. look into intestinal

cleansing products in health food stores, use wheatgrass juice, 

perhaps a couple of months of a good acidophillus.



my friend *had* eczema for years. tried everything from mainstream drugs

to herbs, creams, etc. nothing worked until she tried urine therapy and

it all disappeared within a couple of weeks. i've had the same results.



good luck!





----------------------------------------------------------------------------

           [eric braun - piggy backing of off fredl's account]

"Open your heart today......Don't wait for a surgeon to do it for you."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------









==========

Subject: Re: eczema

From: af280@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sandra P. Hoffman)

Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 02:30:26 GMT

--------





In a previous article, kim@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca (kim wood) says:



>Does anyone know of a herb or preparation which is useful in the treatment 

>of eczema. My Son has a severe case with spots on his face, arms and legs. 

>We've tried most of the usual creams etc.

>



We have used aloe gel, and St Johns Wort oil rubbed onto the eczema. My

partner prefers aloe, I prefer the St. Johns Wort. The Aloe occasionally

stings. Both have worked on my son who has the worst problems with eczema.



We also add dried or fresh stinging nettle into anything it can be hidden

in. We keep a jar by the stove. You can make a strong nettle tea, but

after tasting it I was pretty sure my son would not drink it. 



My son's eczema is related to an allergy to citrus. All citrus. He seems

to be gradually outgrowing it, but especially in winter we avoid citrus

as much as possible.



sph



-- 



                     af280@freenet.carleton.ca









==========

Subject: Re: eczema 

From: hoffmann@stolaf.edu

Date: Sun, 10 Apr 94 08:04:47 CST

--------



In article <kim.14.2DA58C45@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca>, 

<kim@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca> writes:



> 

> Does anyone know of a herb or preparation which is useful in the 

treatment 

> of eczema. My Son has a severe case with spots on his face, arms 

and legs. 

> We've tried most of the usual creams etc.

------------

If you are interested, here are some pieces of info from Weiss

"Lehrbuch der Phytotherapie", Stuttgart 1991: The book differenciates

between acute and chronic (dry stage) of eczema. For external 

treatment of the chronic eczema various tar products are 

recommended: Juniper, spruce, beech. COncentration should be 

increased slowly but it may irritate the kidneys. Seems to me this

should only be done under supervision of a dermatologist. According 

to the book the exact connection between eczemas and metabolism are 

not known. But it may be worth a try to do something in that area 

also, for example using a tea made of viola tricolor. etc. etc.

Please not that I am not a medical doctor and these are quotes from

the book I mentioned. Any responsibilitiy for following the advise

is yours.

Norbert 









==========

Subject: Re: eczema

From: bbischof@rsmas.miami.edu (Barbie)

Date: 11 Apr 1994 00:39:56 GMT

--------

In article <kim.14.2DA58C45@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca>,

kim@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca (kim wood) wrote:

> 

> Does anyone know of a herb or preparation which is useful in the treatment 

> of eczema. My Son has a severe case with spots on his face, arms and legs. 

> We've tried most of the usual creams etc.



I have used something that seems to cover ANY kind of skin ailments...I've

used it on my cats when they "overscratch" themselves creating severe skin

irritations, my niece used it for foot fungus, I've used it for mosquito

bites, a spider bite (helps the healing NOT the itch), rashes...this stuff

is amazing and it is quite easy to make...smells funny, though:



THYME OINTMENT



You need about 1-1.5 cup(s) fresh thyme (one whole spice jar--5 or 6oz?--

of the dried herb) 

1 lb. of UNSALTED butter (Land O' Lakes "sweet cream" butter is what I use)



Take the butter and melt in in a pan...Warm it up enough to where you begin

to get the bubbley white stuff floating to the top, but don't burn it and

try NOT to brown it...you want to sift off all the bubbles and white stuff

that comes to the top to leave behind the oily base.  This is called

"ghee".  Let it cool a bit.  Take the thyme and dump it in (you can add

some chamomile as well, but it is not necessary)...Put it back on the

burner and heat it up, let it ALMOST simmer for about 30 minutes...I

usually use a cast iron sauce pan and put it in the oven on the top rung on

200 degrees for about 30 minutes or so, that way I don't have to constantly

mix it...the butter will bubble and fry, the thyme gets black and the smell

is different...just make sure not to burn it.  Pull it out of the oven and

let it cool enough to where you can pour it into a jar through a

seive...You may want to use cheese cloth as small bits go through some of

the holes, but either way is fine...let it cool.  When it is solid, you'll

have a greenish cloudy ointment.  KEEP IT IN THE FRIDGE or it will

spoil...Use it like like you would an ointment.  The animal fat from the

butter is not too harsh for your skin and the thyme has AMAZING healing

properties for all kinds of skin problems.  



Barbie Bischof

Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atomospheric Science

Division of Marine Geology and Geophysics









==========

Subject: Re: eczema

From: dwheeler@twain.ucs.umass.edu (Diane M Wheeler)

Date: 11 Apr 1994 16:44:57 GMT

--------

kim wood (kim@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca) wrote:

: Does anyone know of a herb or preparation which is useful in the treatment 

: of eczema. My Son has a severe case with spots on his face, arms and legs. 

: We've tried most of the usual creams etc.



Marigold is a good topical treatment for exzema.  It is important to 

allow the sores to breath so oils/powders that clog the pores are bad for 

it.  I know a number of people who have received benefits from having 

colonics done.  Since the skin is the last frontier of waster in our 

bodies cleaning out the "indoor piping" can help eleveate the exterenal 

waste through the skin.









==========

Subject: Re: eczema

From: stacey@uoknor.edu (Stacey B. Martin)

Date: 12 Apr 1994 14:21:52 GMT

--------

In article <kim.14.2DA58C45@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca>,

kim@physiol.heart.rri.uwo.ca (kim wood) wrote:

> 

> Does anyone know of a herb or preparation which is useful in the treatment 

> of eczema. My Son has a severe case with spots on his face, arms and legs. 

> We've tried most of the usual creams etc.





Eczema should be treated internally, also. For external use, chickweed,

calendula, and heartsease (I think - it's also johnny-jump-up) are good 

in creams. Internally, red clover is a good blood cleanser and nutritive,

and one of my sources recommends it for childhood eczema.



Stacey









==========

Subject: valerian- which one???

From: cbaljs@med.unc.edu (Linda Stevenson)

Date: 12 Nov 1993 16:59:59 GMT

--------

I called a plant shop and asked if they

had Valerian.  I was told that this was

a common name for the following plants:

Red Centranlus(sp?) Jacob's Ladder and

Polemanium(sp)



Which of these is the plant used to make 

a tea for relaxation/insomia????

or is a entirely different herb with a commom

name of Valerian??



thanks











==========

Subject: Re: valerian- which one???

From: dawn@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dawn Owens-Nicholson)

Date: 12 Nov 1993 19:35:15 GMT

--------

cbaljs@med.unc.edu (Linda Stevenson) writes:



>I called a plant shop and asked if they

>had Valerian.  I was told that this was

>a common name for the following plants:

>Red Centranlus(sp?) Jacob's Ladder and

>Polemanium(sp)



>Which of these is the plant used to make 

>a tea for relaxation/insomia????



The one you want is  Valeriana officinalis.  I have only heard it

called Valerian.  Mrs. Grieve's Modern Herbal says that some common

names for it are: All-Heal, Great Wild Valerian, Amantilla, Setwall,

Setewale, and Capon's Tail.  The part you want for your tea is the root.



The items the plant store mentioned are NOT what you want.

 

Centranthus rubra (also called Red-spur Valerian) has no relaxing or

     sedative properties, but its leaves can be eaten in a salad or

     something.



Jacob's Ladder I have only heard as a common name for Lily of the Valley

     (Convallaria magalis).  I have no idea what you would use it for, but

     Grieve says that its action resembles that of digitalis.



Polemonium reptans (also called American Greek Valerian and False Jacob's

     Ladder) is an expectorant.



Good Luck,



Dawn











==========

Subject: Re: valerian- which one???

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 21:51:37 GMT

--------

In article <2c0fef$7jb@samba.oit.unc.edu> Linda Stevenson, cbaljs@med.unc.edu

writes:

> I called a plant shop and asked if they

> had Valerian.  I was told that this was

> a common name for the following plants:

> Red Centranlus(sp?) Jacob's Ladder and

> Polemanium(sp)

> 

> Which of these is the plant used to make 

> a tea for relaxation/insomia????

> or is a entirely different herb with a commom

> name of Valerian??



Tell them you want _Valeriana officinales_ and will accept no subsitutes.  They

can't argue with the proper taxonomic nomenclature:  most of their plants

should

also be labelled with their Latin names.  Of course, that doesn't guarantee

they won't tell you they don't carry it . . . .  (As far as I can determine,

none of the names they gave you are common names for all-heal, although they

are members of the same genus.)

__

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: ma huang

From: demarcom@cs.bu.edu (Marianne DeMarco)

Date: 12 Nov 1993 21:00:06 GMT

--------

i am currently inhaling ma huang in massive doses, daily.

its effects seems to have waned.  any thoughts?  thanks.











==========

Subject: remedies for eczema

From: milom@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul A Sihvonen Binder)

Date: 12 Nov 1993 22:46:40 GMT

--------



In article 1217, someone wrote asking for herbs for eczema.  Goldenseal 

root is very good.  Use it externally as a wash or compress for the dry 

areas.  Chickweed juice is helpful to itchy patches that have become 

sore.  Also, try making an oil with the following:



Add:

10 drops of calendula, 5 drops chamomile, 5 drops geranium, and 5 drops 

lavender oil or extract to 2 ounces of carrier oil.  Apply to dry areas 

of skin.



(Info taken from The Complete Book of Herbs, by Lesley Bremness)



Examine how much oil and fat  you get in your diet.  Fish oils are a good 

remedy for dry skin.  Try Vitamin A and Vitamin E oils, directly on the skin.



hope this helps.



Lisa (using my husband's account.  All opinions are my own, not to be 

associated with him)













==========

Subject: ATTENTION:  WRITERS

From: cvammahh@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu (L. Devereaux)

Date: 13 Nov 93 08:24:03 PST

--------

Is anyone out there interested in writing an article or a series of articles on

herbal health?  I own a small publication, and am eager to include information

on cures to common illnesses.  If you have a little writing talent and a lot of

herbal knowledge, please email me directly.  Thanks.-- 

---

L. Devereaux aka Morgan le Fay       Email: cvammahh@csupomona.edu

                    We are the spiders; we are the thread

                    We are the witches back from the dead.









==========

Subject: ulcers

From: chapman_c@ix.wcc.govt.nz (TURKEY)

Date: 14 Nov 1993 04:17:30 GMT

--------

I have a bad problem with ulcers on occasions.  On other occasions I'm fine.

These ulcers (oh, yeah, MOUTH ulcers) dont seem to be directly stress related

since they dont coincide with stressful periods.  Is it possible that I have 

a defficiency of something in my diet?

 Even better, is there any herbal solution to mouth ulcers?









==========

Subject: Re: primrose oil and prostaglandins

From: rharvey@charlie.usd.edu

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 16:46:58 GMT

--------

In article <2c3jrh$8c6@triton.unm.edu>, mycol1@unm.edu (Bryant) writes:



>The really interesting thing was that

>primrose oil contains prostglandin analogues at all, and yet the

>literature reflects ZERO research of its utility in mood management in

>humans!!  

>

>If any of you know of studies or anecdotal info on the matter of primrose

>oil and mood, please e-mail it to me or post it here.  Thanks.



According to _The New Age Herbalist_, evening primrose oil contains gamma

linoleic acid, which the body can use to produce prostaglandin PGE 1.  While

the book does not mention using it to treat post-partum depression, it does

describe it being used for PMS.  It refers to a study done in 1981 at St.

Thomas's Hospital in London, where 65 women were treated with evening primrose

oil.  61% experienced complete relief and 23% experienced partial relief.  72%

of the women reported less breast swelling than usual while using the oil.



If it is the same lack of prostaglandin that causes post-partum depression that

causes PMS, it would make sense that evening primrose oil would work in both

situations.  Does anyone have any info on the causes of post-partum depression?



---Renee



























==========

Subject: SEDATIVE, TRANQUELIZER, ????

From: jdhst25@vms.cis.pitt.edu

Date: 15 Nov 93 21:14:57 GMT

--------

I am looking for an herb that has strong effects as a sedative...a legal one.

I am tired of valerian, lemon balm, chamomile, etc.  They have no effect

on me.  Does anyone know of anything that would have the effect of say.......

VALIUM????



Thank you....you will save my brittle nerves



E-mail replies appreciated.













==========

Subject: midwifery

From: studentuser@duckmail.uoregon.edu ()

Date: 16 Nov 1993 01:04:06 GMT

--------

Is there a net or bbs or ftp archive, anything anywhere that is devoted to

discussions of midwifery.  If so please please email me.



I am ahess@duckmail.uoregon.edu

Thanks!



-- 

Statements made by me do not reflect 

the opinions of anyone other than myself.









==========

Subject: Re: midwifery

From: lahg8287@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (NukeEChick)

Date: 16 Nov 1993 14:33:55 GMT

--------

studentuser@duckmail.uoregon.edu () writes:



>Is there a net or bbs or ftp archive, anything anywhere that is devoted to

>discussions of midwifery.  If so please please email me.



   could you maybe post it?  I'd be interested too-



   Lisa



-- 

lahg8287@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu          -The NukeEChick-

				    









==========

Subject: midwifery

From: gosbee@cleo.bc.edu (beth gosbee)

Date: 1 Nov 1994 01:52:38 GMT

--------

I am a college student in Boston interested in having conversations with

others interested in midwifery and natural childbirth.  I'm interested in

talking about herbs, homeopathy, and natural/alternative methods of 

relieving pain.  Please respond!  -------beth lauren :      

gosbee@cleo.bc.edu









==========

Subject: midwifery

From: amberlyn@comtch.iea.com (Amberlyn)

Date: 15 Nov 1994 03:31:35 GMT

--------

If there are any midwifes here, I would like to ask you some questions as 

to training, mail-lists, etc. Please email me.



Thx

Amberlyn

amberlyn@comtch.iea.com









==========

Subject: Pawpaws - Recipes & Folklore

From: ar727@yfn.ysu.edu (Kathy Bilton)

Date: 17 Nov 1993 03:03:08 GMT

--------



A friend of mine is looking for some sources of recipes and stories or folklore

concerning the Pawpaw (Asimina triloba).  If any of you out there know

of any good sources of this information, please let me know.  (He is aware

of that Pawpaw association - in Washoington, DC - I believe.



Thanks.   Kathy Bilton

#@##

-- 









==========

Subject: Herbs in medieval brewing...

From: miss059@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Rich Bainter)

Date: 17 Nov 1993 10:16:17 -0600

--------



(Note: I didn't set a follow-up since I didn't know which of the groups

would like to discuss this further. If someone feels that this is too

wide a spectrum, please reduce it.)



Good Morning,



   I'm doing a little personal research and I'm interested in finding

out what herbs were used in medieval brewing and why. If it's just for

taste, that's fine, but a lot of things are not used just for taste when

it comes to herbs. I'm sorry I'm being so vague on this, but I don't

even know where to start. As for time-period, I'm looking for

pre-1600's.



   Thanks for any and all assistance!



Ciao,

-- 

Richard Bainter      | "I want to be called COTTONTIPS. There is something 

Phelim Utred Gervas  |  graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with 

Pug                  |  vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes

pug@arlut.utexas.edu |  beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"









==========

Subject: Re: Herbs in medieval brewing...

From: jonathan@indial1.io.com (Jonathan David Bow)

Date: 19 Nov 1993 02:27:13 GMT

--------

Rich Bainter (miss059@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) wrote:





:    I'm doing a little personal research and I'm interested in finding

: out what herbs were used in medieval brewing and why. If it's just for

: taste, that's fine, but a lot of things are not used just for taste when

: it comes to herbs. I'm sorry I'm being so vague on this, but I don't

: even know where to start. As for time-period, I'm looking for

: pre-1600's.



:    Thanks for any and all assistance!



: Ciao,

: -- 

: Richard Bainter      | "I want to be called COTTONTIPS. There is something 

: Phelim Utred Gervas  |  graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with 

: Pug                  |  vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes

: pug@arlut.utexas.edu |  beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"



For the time period you specified I recommend you consult John Gerard's

_Herbal_, a classic work.  The complete text of the 1633 edition was

republished in 1975 by Dover Publications.  Library of Congress Card No.

74-18719.



Jonathan Bow









==========

Subject: Re: Herbs in medieval brewing...

From: billgrae@echonyc.com (Bill Grae)

Date: 22 Nov 1993 04:00:58 GMT

--------

Jonathan David Bow (jonathan@indial1.io.com) wrote:

: Rich Bainter (miss059@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) wrote:





: :    I'm doing a little personal research and I'm interested in finding

: : out what herbs were used in medieval brewing and why. If it's just for

: : taste, that's fine, but a lot of things are not used just for taste when

: : it comes to herbs. I'm sorry I'm being so vague on this, but I don't

: : even know where to start. As for time-period, I'm looking for

: : pre-1600's.



: :    Thanks for any and all assistance!

If you're near a particularly large library, check to see if a copy of

_The Closet of Sir Kenelm Digby, Knight, Opened_.  The book is a

compilation of brewing and meal reciptes assembled in the early 1600's (I

think). Sir Kenelm was fascinated not only with the traditional English

practices of brewing but also the new practices that had been introduced

as a result of contact with "infidels, French, and Germans."



BTW, as I'm sure you're aware, the use or non-use of hops was at one point

a raging controversy in Britain with sufficiently political overtones that

hops were actually banned for a while.



Hope this helps.  If your library doesn't have it, find out if Cornell's

Mann Library is willing to part with its copy.



--

Regards,



Bill Grae

billgrae@echonyc.com

____________________________________________________________________

Dulce est desipere in loco.  Whoop - there it is!









==========

Subject: Re: Herbs in medieval brewing...

From: isy3wtm@cabell.vcu.edu (William T. McDonald)

Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 20:27:54 GMT

--------

billgrae@echonyc.com (Bill Grae) writes:



>If you're near a particularly large library, check to see if a copy of

>_The Closet of Sir Kenelm Digby, Knight, Opened_.  The book is a

>compilation of brewing and meal reciptes assembled in the early 1600's (I

>think). Sir Kenelm was fascinated not only with the traditional English

>practices of brewing but also the new practices that had been introduced

>as a result of contact with "infidels, French, and Germans."



Digby is good, but pulls from late in period. There are some earlier

works, German 15th and 16th century, that are specifically about

distillation of spirits. Also, "Il Herbario de Trento", an Italian

herbal from in-period. Also, some research into the origins of

various European liqueurs may reveal the original uses of some of

the herbs and spices in brewing (e.g., hyssop, angelica, anise,

fennel, grains of paradise, cubebs, cumin, cloves, etc.). A review

of the complete Gerard's herbal (versus the excerpt reprints that

are more common) may yield useful information. Also, Bancke's

herbal (English), and a manuscript of Dodoen's (Dutch, from whom

Gerard may have generously 'borrowed').



Hope this proves useful.



Thomas









==========

Subject: Re: Herbs in medieval brewing...

From: jennifer@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jennifer Lucille Dunajski)

Date: 19 Nov 1993 17:59:08 GMT

--------

Rich Bainter (miss059@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) wrote:



:    I'm doing a little personal research and I'm interested in finding

: out what herbs were used in medieval brewing and why. If it's just for

: taste, that's fine, but a lot of things are not used just for taste when

: it comes to herbs. I'm sorry I'm being so vague on this, but I don't

: even know where to start. As for time-period, I'm looking for

: pre-1600's.



-i would suggest trying rec.crafts.brewin









==========

Subject: Lemon balm

From: coutts@bldg.hsc.lan1.umanitoba.ca (Amanda )

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 21:57:59 GMT

--------

Hi, I would like any information and/or uses anyone  could tell me about

lemon balm. I bought some leaves and dried them, but I don't know what the

properties of lemon balm are.  THANX!



-- 

AC









==========

Subject: Re: Lemon balm

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 00:33:46 GMT

--------

In article <coutts-171193165759@murph2.biochem.umanitoba.ca> Amanda,

coutts@bldg.hsc.lan1.umanitoba.ca writes:

> Hi, I would like any information and/or uses anyone  could tell me about

> lemon balm. I bought some leaves and dried them, but I don't know what the

> properties of lemon balm are.  THANX!



_Melissa oficinalis_ (lemon balm, also called just plain "balm") is usually

used in an infusion to "treat feverish colds and headaches," according to one

source, and as "a specific for infants and children when signs of fever, colds

and flu approach," according to another.  The Reader's Digest _Magic and

Medicine

of Plants_ also suggests it may relieve menstrual cramps (which I didn't know

when *that* thread was running, or I'd have mentioned it), and adds that the

crushed (fresh) leaves may help heal wounds and insect bites.  Avicenna also

prescribed it as an antidepressant;  but everyone knows about the eleventh

century's

medical expertise (or lack thereof).



It can also be used to impart a sort of lemony flavor when cooking, or fresh

in salads.  The oil is used as a perfume in some cosmetics.



As with most of the herbs that have been around for several centuries, its uses

seem largely to depend on which authorities you consult.



Baird

__

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Lemon Balm

From: rharvey@charlie.usd.edu

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 02:19:24 GMT

--------

My favorite use for Lemon Balm, also known as Melissa, is to make tea.  It

tastes good (lemony) and it is very relaxing.  It is very useful for when

you have an upset stomach, but it is good to drink anytime.



---Renee

   rharvey@charlie.usd.edu









==========

Subject: Re: Lemon Balm

From: singer@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (Bart Singer)

Date: 18 Nov 1993 14:34:42 GMT

--------

I have found the leaves to be a reasonable mosquito repellent.  I have a plant

in a barrel (I used to have it in my garden but it proceeded to take over, so

I pulled it all up and planted some in the barrel.) by the back door.  I pull

a few leaves and wipe it on my arms and legs when I go out in the summertime.

It works well for 15-20 outings, but I need stronger stuff for longer

excursions.

--



                                         Bart Singer

                                         High Technology Corp.

                                         MS 156

                                         NASA Langley Research Center

                                         Hampton, VA  23681

                                         b.a.singer@larc.nasa.gov

                                         (804) 864-2316









==========

Subject: Lemon Balm

From: u9004710@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca (L.P. Boksman)

Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 23:10:42 GMT

--------

In a previous article, N. Bennett asked about Lemon Balm and whether or 

not the plant could be harvested all summer.  I have grown Lemon Balm in 

the garden for a few years now, and I harvest it all summer, and even 

into the fall until the frost kills it.  I do recall reading somewhere 

that Lemon Balm should be harvested before it flowers.  I haven't noticed 

any difference in the taste of Lemon Balm tea when made with leaves 

picked after flowers appear, when compared to tea made with leaves from 

before flowers.  However, I should note that I always try to pick young 

leaves, and thus not leaves near the flowers which are on the older 

stems.  Frequent harvesting (when the plant gets large enough, I 

often pick a handful or two of leaves each day for tea) doesn't seem to 

harm the plant, and if anything, seems to encourage bushy growth.



One thing I noticed the other day:  my lemon balm is being attacked by 

bugs, the poor thing.  I don't know what kind of bugs they are, but they 

are small and bright green - almost indistinguishable in colour from the 

bottom of the leaves.  The poor leaves look so ill - the aflicted ones 

(which, unfortunately are increasing in number) shrivel and curl and lose 

their bright healthy colour.  I obviously want to get rid of these (I 

really want some of that Lemon Balm tea!), but I don't like using 

insecticides, especially on herbs that I will be eating.  I have a n 

incecticide that says it is made from extracts of certain chrysanthemum 

species.  It says that it is safe to use on food plants, but I was hoping 

for others opinions on this.  I have already sprayed once, and don't know 

whether to keep the plant in spite of the spray, or give up and go buy 

another plant.  Any advice would be appreciated.



Happy pickings!



Laura

(who has a real craving for Lemon Balm tea now that she has been typing 

about it for so long)









==========

Subject: Re: Lemon Balm

From: JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu (Jon C. Gilliam)

Date: 3 Jun 1994 08:00:45 -0500

--------

u9004710@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca (L.P. Boksman) writes:

>One thing I noticed the other day:  my lemon balm is being attacked by

>bugs, the poor thing.  I don't know what kind of bugs they are, but they

>are small and bright green - almost indistinguishable in colour from the

>bottom of the leaves.  The poor leaves look so ill - the aflicted ones

>(which, unfortunately are increasing in number) shrivel and curl and lose

>their bright healthy colour.  I obviously want to get rid of these (I

>really want some of that Lemon Balm tea!), but I don't like using

>insecticides, especially on herbs that I will be eating.



   Using a knife, make shavings out of 1/4 a bar of hand soap -- best to

use a variety as free of additives (perfumes, deodorants, colorings, etc.)

as possible.  Put the shavings in an old pot with 2 cups of water, and boil

until well dissolved.  Add this to 2 gallons of water, and pour into a

sprayer.  Spray the bugs with the soapy water whenever you see them.  Note

that this only works as a contol, and you need to respray as you see more

bugs.



:jon



-----

Jon C. Gilliam <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>



   First get your facts; then you can distort them at your

   leisure.

   -- Mark Twain











==========

Subject: Re: Lemon Balm

From: dww5@email.cac.psu.edu (Dale Woika)

Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 13:40:20 GMT

--------

In article <9406031300.AA06957@morgan.popgen.fccc.edu> JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu (Jon C. Gilliam) writes:

>From: JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu (Jon C. Gilliam)

>Subject: Re: Lemon Balm

>Date: 3 Jun 1994 08:00:45 -0500



>u9004710@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca (L.P. Boksman) writes:

>>One thing I noticed the other day:  my lemon balm is being attacked by

>>bugs, the poor thing.  I don't know what kind of bugs they are, but they

>>are small and bright green - almost indistinguishable in colour from the

>>bottom of the leaves.  The poor leaves look so ill - the aflicted ones

>>(which, unfortunately are increasing in number) shrivel and curl and lose

>>their bright healthy colour.  I obviously want to get rid of these (I

>>really want some of that Lemon Balm tea!), but I don't like using

>>insecticides, especially on herbs that I will be eating.



>   Using a knife, make shavings out of 1/4 a bar of hand soap -- best to

>use a variety as free of additives (perfumes, deodorants, colorings, etc.)

>as possible.  Put the shavings in an old pot with 2 cups of water, and boil

>until well dissolved.  Add this to 2 gallons of water, and pour into a

>sprayer.  Spray the bugs with the soapy water whenever you see them.  Note

>that this only works as a contol, and you need to respray as you see more

>bugs.



It sounds to me like APHIDS!  If you are interested in biological control, 

call one of the larger seed companies (Gurneys, Park, etc) & order 

LADYBUGS.  These guys love aphids, & many other little pests, & won't harm 

your lemon balm in the least.  Actually, in California, if I read your IP 

address right, you can probably obtain them from your local garden suppliers 

or farm suppliers.



Also, you may ne interested to know the local ants may be tending the 

aphids.  The aphids secrete a sugary substance which the ants really like.

 The ants protect the aphids in return for the sweet snack the aphids 

provide.  It is interesting to watch.  



Anyway, good luck w/your aphids & balm.



Dale









==========

Subject: Info needed:  Stevia

From: awoods@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Alan Woods)

Date: 19 Nov 1993 03:37:47 GMT

--------

We found an herb called "Stevia" at our local co-op, and can't find any 

information about it.  It has a strongly sweet taste, is a dark blue/green.  

Can it be used as a sweetener in baking?  Anybody know what it is?  In 

short--help!

     Alan and Ann Woods









==========

Subject: Re: Info needed:  Stevia

From: ar727@yfn.ysu.edu (Kathy Bilton)

Date: 20 Nov 1993 00:47:26 GMT

--------



It's funny that you all should post your question just now - as I've

recently been thinking about Stevia myself.  I used to use it all the

time as a sweetener for my tea and coffee, though I never baked with it.

I have heard that it can be used by diabetics - but I would want to find

out more about it before using it if I were a diabetic.  



It's full name is Stevia rebaudiansa and is a member of the Asyter family.

It is a native of Paraguay and, according to what I have read, has been

used as a sweetener by the Indians there for many, many years.  My 

understanding is that it has not yet met with FDA approval, though I know

that ione can sometimes find it  avialable for purchase.   



Ktathy Bilton ar727#@yfn.ysu.edu     kbilton@cap.gwu.edu

-- 









==========

Subject: Re: Info needed:  Stevia

From: ANDY.CME@MAIL.HEALTH.UFL.EDU (Andy Hunn)

Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 09:57:42

--------

In article <2cjpeu$fqc@news.ysu.edu> ar727@yfn.ysu.edu (Kathy Bilton) writes:

>From: ar727@yfn.ysu.edu (Kathy Bilton)

>Subject: Re: Info needed:  Stevia

>Date: 20 Nov 1993 00:47:26 GMT





>It's funny that you all should post your question just now - as I've

>recently been thinking about Stevia myself.  I used to use it all the

>time as a sweetener for my tea and coffee, though I never baked with it.

>I have heard that it can be used by diabetics - but I would want to find

>out more about it before using it if I were a diabetic.  



>It's full name is Stevia rebaudiansa and is a member of the Asyter family.

>It is a native of Paraguay and, according to what I have read, has been

>used as a sweetener by the Indians there for many, many years.  My 

>understanding is that it has not yet met with FDA approval, though I know

>that ione can sometimes find it  avialable for purchase.   



>Ktathy Bilton ar727#@yfn.ysu.edu     kbilton@cap.gwu.edu

>-- 



Yes this is true. I have used Stevia for some time now as a sweetener but I 

don't know how good it is for baking. Stevia currently has not been approved 

by the FDA for unknown reasons, but in order to make it available to the 

public some health food companies market is as different items such as facial 

masks or scrubs. It sounds strange but all it is is the sweetener. This is 

just a way to get around the FDA. I have more info about Stevia but I'll have 

to go through my files. Hope I could help.









==========

Subject: Re: Info needed:  Stevia

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 00:36:03 GMT

--------

In article <2cjpeu$fqc@news.ysu.edu> Kathy Bilton, ar727@yfn.ysu.edu writes:

> It's funny that you all should post your question just now - as I've

> recently been thinking about Stevia myself.  I used to use it all the

> time as a sweetener for my tea and coffee, though I never baked with it.

> I have heard that it can be used by diabetics - but I would want to find

> out more about it before using it if I were a diabetic.  



And here is more about it.



According to the Reader's Digest _Magic and Medicine of Plants_ on Sweet Herb

(_Stevia rebaudiana_): "the glycoside stevioside is 300 times as sweet as

granulated

table sugar.  But stevioside is potentially far more than a nonfattening sugar

substitute:  it actually triggers hypoglicemic activity, reducing blood sugar

levels as it sweetens.  Hence it can be a true lifesaver for many diabetics."



There is a problem, however.  The article goes on to mention "the alarming fact

that sweet herb's natural habitat in northeastern Paraguay near the Brazilian

border is being extensively exploited for timber and developed for agriculture

by means of the notoriously destructive slash-and-burn method.  Although

concerned

citizens have been trying to transplant sweet herb to plantations in other

regions,

they face grave problems because the plant is sensitive to environmental change

and may not survive the move."



 . . . And it is the opinion of the US government (among many others) that what

 South American countries do to their environments, whether rain forests or

 pampas, during the course of their efforts to develop is rightly the concern

 of no other citizens of the world.

 

 Baird

 __

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Primrose Oil

From: vincent@erich.triumf.ca (Bill Vincent)

Date: 18 Nov 1993 22:09 PST

--------

Further information is available in depth from your local medical library. 

Borage Oil is a preferred source of GLA as the shape of the carbon chains off

the trigliceride are four times more efficient in  humans

The John Bastier Naturopathic College in Seattle has a biochemist Bill Mitchell

who specialized in this type of application.  A healthy balance of omega 3's as

well as the omega 6 GLA is reccommended.  I suggest Flax seed oil. An imbalance

 of omega 3 & Omega 6 EFA's  result in an imbalance of downstream 

prostiglandin production  A one to one ratio approaches optimum 

See the NATO advanced research workshops report on EFA's 1988 Italy



============================================================================                   

"et in Arcadia id..."                      Bill Vincent

                                        "using my brother's account"     









==========

Subject: Question: liniments and knees

From: sheila@maputo.berkeley.edu ()

Date: 19 Nov 1993 18:29:00 GMT

--------

Would anyone be willing to explain how liniments work to 

relieve pain and swelling in the joints and how effective they are in

reversing structural damage? I ask because a message therapist 

once stated quite confidently that some liniments, used regularly, 

can actually help reverse some kinds of damage in the knees. According to her

lights, most people who get knee surgery don't really need it or could

have have avoided it by means of the slower, long-term healing methods

involving herbal remedies such as balms or liniments.  Now I had

always understood that liniments might alleviate the symptoms of

certain types of knee trouble; this is the first time I've heard

anyone state that they can sometimes correct or ameliorate the 

structural causes of such symptoms.



Sheila Newbery

sheila@math.berkeley.edu









==========

Subject: Ginseng varieties

From: weigand@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Steven Weigand)

Date: 20 Nov 1993 00:27:37 GMT

--------

I've seen many types of ginseng capsules in the fitness centers.

One brand they're trying to pass off as ginseng really isn't, I

think... Well,  that's what I'm trying to figure out.



Normal Panax Ginseng is called "arilaceae" (I think that's the

correct spelling).  But there's a brand of ginseng called

Siberian Ginseng and is actually "Eleutherococcus senticosus",

which appears not to be true ginseng.



Am I wrong?  What is the difference between Siberian ginseng

and Panax Ginseng?



There's also Korean Ginseng.  (I don't have the latin name for

it.)



Am I being scammed if I buy Siberian Ginseng?



Thanks, 

 - Steve Weigand

  (Weigand@udel.edu)











==========

Subject: Re: Ginseng varieties

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 00:52:01 GMT

--------

In article <2cjo9p$llk@louie.udel.edu> Steven Weigand,

weigand@krusty.ee.udel.edu writes:

> Am I being scammed if I buy Siberian Ginseng?



Nope.  Siberian ginseng "is not true ginseng,  but it contains similar

active chemicals and studies show it has similar effects.  As a result, all

three are grouped together as "ginseng," and used interchangeably in the West."

 (Castleman, _The Healing Herbs_, p. 193)

 

 Baird

 __

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Re: Ginseng varieties

From: dyates@panix.com (Don Yates)

Date: 26 Nov 1993 07:17:08 -0500

--------

In <CGvBqp.Ktu@jabba.ess.harris.com> Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com> writes:



>In article <2cjo9p$llk@louie.udel.edu> Steven Weigand,

>weigand@krusty.ee.udel.edu writes:

>> Am I being scammed if I buy Siberian Ginseng?



>Nope.  Siberian ginseng "is not true ginseng,  but it contains similar

>active chemicals and studies show it has similar effects.  As a result, all

>three are grouped together as "ginseng," and used interchangeably in the West."

> (Castleman, _The Healing Herbs_, p. 193)

> 

> Baird

> __

>Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)



My understanding is that Eleuthro root (Siberian ginseng) is preferred for

women, especially post-menopause.  True ginseng in part has its effect

because it simulates the production of testosterone, not an effect many

women will desire.  (A bio-chemist friend tells me that estogen and

testosterone are so closely related chemically that one can change into

the other depending on conditions in the body.)



I have been concerned hearing radios ads for Ginsana (SP?) as being "good

for middle aged men and women."  Can't be both, IMHO.



D













==========

Subject: Herbs in Medieval Brewing...

From: Moira_Carlson@mindlink.bc.ca (Moira Carlson)

Date: 20 Nov 93 01:28:10 GMT

--------

In response to Rich Bainter: miss059@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu who writes:



>I'm doing a little personal research and I'm interested in finding

>out what herbs were used in medieval brewing and why. If it's just for

>taste, that's fine, but a lot of things are not used just for taste when

>it comes to herbs. I'm sorry I'm being so vague on this, but I don't

>even know where to start. As for time-period, I'm looking for

>pre-1600's.







1. Ground Ivy (Glechoma hederacea).  It has lots of common names, but two of

them: "Tunhoof" and "Alehoof" indicate that it was used in brewing (I think

to clarify the ale).



2. Wall Germander (Teucrium chamaedrys), also used to clarify ale.



3. Costmary (Chrysanthemum balsamita), also known as "Alecost".  It was used

as a flavouring.



Hope this helps.  You might also try checking in to the history of hops,

because I seem to remember that they weren't widely used until about the

1600s...it is therefore likely that a good information source on hops will

mention what was used before they were.



Hope this helps.

-Moira Carlson











==========

Subject: ESSIAC?

From: chalmers@nbnet.nb.ca (J.G. Chalmers JH SCHOOL)

Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 00:16:20 GMT

--------

A vey dear friend of mine has been fighting lung cancer for the past three 

years.  She ahs decided to start taking essiac.  Could somebody please fill 

me in? I'd like to know what this is all about.









==========

Subject: Re: ESSIAC?

From: waddell@firnvx.firn.edu

Date: 21 Nov 93 13:40:06 EST

--------

In article <chalmers.20.0@nbnet.nb.ca>, chalmers@nbnet.nb.ca 

   (J.G. Chalmers JH SCHOOL) writes:

> A vey dear friend of mine has been fighting lung cancer for the past three 

> years.  She ahs decided to start taking essiac.  Could somebody please fill 

> me in? I'd like to know what this is all about.



My sister brought to my attention an article on Essiac in Wildfire Vol. 6 No.

1 titled "Essiac: Nature's Cure for Cancer, An interview with Dr. Gary L.

Glum" by Elizabeth Robinson.  In it there was mentioned a book written and

published by Dr. Glum in 1988 called "Calling of an Angel" about Essiac and

Rene Caisse, the Canadian nurse who discovered this remedy through a patient

who had been given it by an Objibway herbalist.  

 

Rene left the hospital in 1922 at the age of 33 and for the next 60 years

treated hundreds of people with this herbal remedy.  Most of those she treated

where referred to her by physicians because the patients had terminal or

incurable forms of cancer.  Many of these patients lived 35-45 years longer.

 

Most of the article was an interview with Dr. Glum...

 

..."I learned about Rene Caisse from Mary McPherson who was a very close

personal friend of Rene's...not only a friend but also a patient.  Mary's

mother and her husband were also patients.  They were all treated for cancer

and cured by Mary.

   Mary worked with Rene beginning in the 1930's and she had in her possession

all these documents that had to do with Essiac over the 40 years Rene

administered it.  All the documents Rene had were destroyed by the Canadian

Ministry of Health & Welfare at the time of her death in 1978.  They burned

all the information in fifty-five gallon drums behind her home."

 

ER:  Why?

 

GG:  Because they don't want this information in the hands of the public or

press or anybody else.  They indeed found out what Essiac was in 1937.  The

Royal Cancer Commission hearings had then come to the same conclusions that

Rene had -- that Essiac was a cure for cancer.

 

...

 

ER: ... Why do you think the information on Essiac is not more widely known?

 

GG:  The information is withheld because cancer is the second largest revenue

producing business in the world, next to the petrochemical business.  Money

and power suppress this truth.

     No one has ever sought to cure cancer -- only to control it. 

...

ER:  In your book you mention that the Brusch Clinic in Massachusetts worked

with Rene...

 

GG:  Dr. Charles A. Brusch is not practicing at this time.  He was a personal

physician to the late President John F. Kennedy.  Dr. Brusch worked with Rene

Caisse from 1959 to 1962.  He worked with thousands of cancer patients.  He

also worked with the Presidential Cancer Commission, with others like Dr.

Armand Hammer, the American Cancer Society, and the National Cancer Institute.

    Dr. Brusch presented his findings after 10 years of research.  He had come

to the conclusion that, in his own words, "Essiac is a cure for cancer,

period.  All studies done at laboratories in the United States and Canada

support this conclusion."

    Whereupon the federal government issued a gag order and said, "You've got

one of two choices, either you keep quiet about this or we'll haul you off to

military prison and you'll never be heard of again."  So we never heard

another word out of him.

    Brusch's Essiac patients included Ted Kennedy's son who had a sarcoma in

his leg, and who had his leg amputated.  He was being treated at that time by

the Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, Massachusetts.  Dr. Farber didn't know

how to save him so he went to Dr. Brusch who suggested to put him on Essiac,

and after they did he didn't have a cancer cell in his body.

 

...

GG:  Right now Essiac is being used in every state in the United Sates, it's

throughout Canada, into Mexico, it's in Australia, Europe, Asia, and recently

also in Africa...  But it's still known only on a very limited basis.

   Of course now you also have the problem of herbal distributing companies

throughout the world that are substituting yellow dock and curly dock for

sheep's sorrel -- rumex acetosella -- , which is one of the critical

ingredients in Essiac.

     The sheep's sorrel is the herbal ingredient in Essiac that was found to

be responsible for the destruction of cancer cells in the body, or their

amalgamation where metastasized cancer cells actually return to the original

tumor site.

    The research was done by Dr. Chester Stock at Sloan-Kettering in New York

for over a three-year period.  But when they gathered that information, they

withheld it form the general public -- yet they gave it to the Canadian

Ministry of Health and Welfare.  The Canadian government then immediately

banned that herb for sale and distribution.

 

ER:  Banned a common weed like sheep's sorrel?

 

GG:  Yes, sheep's sorrel is just a common weed that grows in abundance

throughout North America and into Canada. ... It's just a question of

identifying the plant and then harvesting it correctly and drying it properly

and then putting it together with the other herbs.

     Rene would harvest the sheep's sorrel -- Rumex acetosella -- when it was

four to six inches high.  She cut it back and it would grow up again, and

she'd cut it back again.  She would do that about 3 times and then she let it

go to seed.  It will grow to 14 or 18 inches.

    She would take the herb cutting s home and lay them out at room

temperature to dry them.  She'd let the cuttings sit for 3 or 4 days before

she'd begin turning the herbs.  Then she'd turn them every 2 days until they

were properly dry, which took about 10 to 14 days.  It takes about a bushel of

harvested sheep's sorrel to produce one pound of the dried powdered herb which

is used in the formula.

  

...

 

ER:  Have you any personal experiences with Essiac?

 

GG:  Yes< I can give you an example.  He was a 1-yr-old boy named Toby Wood. 

He had acute lymphoblastic, which is one of the most virulent of all

leukemias.  He had been on chemotherapy for 4 yrs and radiation for 3.  His

mother's only hope in life was to find a cure for him.  She went everywhere. 

She tried every alternative treatment.

     Her last stop was Dr. Alvazados in Athens, Greece where her son's white

cell count was 186,000.  He had no red blood cells and no platelets.  He was

hemorrhaging to death.  So they transfused Toby in Greece and put him on a

plane home to Alaska where was given less than 5 days to live.  

     I met his mother's sister in Los Angeles...We sat down and talked.  She

borrowed money for a flight to Anchorage, and delivered a bottle of Essiac. 

By the time she got there Toby was given 3 days to live.  He was in a state of

complete deterioration.  He was given the Essiac and all the hemorrhaging

stopped within 24 hours.  Within 3 months all his blood tests were normal.  I

arrived in alaska later that year and met him.

     Toby Wood did die, and we finally found a pathologist who would do an

exhaustive autopsy.  We knew he didn't have leukemia any more.  We wanted to

find out what was the cause of death.  The pathologist autopsied the brain,

testicles, and all life support organs, including the bone marrow.  No blast

cells were found in any life support organ, or in the bone marrow.  There were

a few stray cells in the testicles and in the brain.  Cause of death was

damage to the myocardial sac of the heart, a result of the chemotherapy.

    This was the first report anywhere in medial history of anyone surviving

lymphoblastic leukemia.  That information was taken to AP and UPI but they

said it was not newsworthy.

...

     So that's the problem.  No one wants the information disseminated.  And

it's not just the media, either.  It includes the herbal companies who are now

substituting the curly dock for sheep's sorrel.  So people are getting the

wrong ingredients for Essiac, not to mention the five or six other formulas

that are circulating which are different from the one I send out. ... There is

a disinformation campaign going on here, somehow.

...

    Rene also found that Essiac was a strong preventive.  These findings were

substantiated by Dr. Albert Schatz at Temple University who discovered the

core for tuberculosis.

    Rene also found that Essiac would normalize the thyroid gland.  My wife

was on two grains of thyroid since the sixth grade.  After I met her, she

started taking Essiac, and she hasn't taken a grain of thyroid since.

     Rene also found that Essiac would heal stomach ulcers within 3 or 4

weeks.  She felt that ulcers were a precursor to cancer.

     Sir Frederick Banting, the co-discoverer of insulin, wanted to work with

Rene.  She had clinical cases where a person on insulin discontinued it with

the Essiac, since no one knew haw Essiac would interact with the insulin. 

Apparently Essiac regulated the pancreas in cases of diabetes mellitus.  So

these people became insulin free....

     I also worked with AIDS Project Los Angeles through their Long Beach and

San Pedro districts.  They sent 179 patients home to die.  They all had

pneumocystis carinii and histoplasmosis.  Their weight was down to about 100

pounds.  Their T-4 cell counts were less than ten.  The Project gave me 5 of

these patients.  I took them off AZT and the DDI and put them on Essiac 3

times a day.  Those are the only ones alive today....

 

GG:  It also cures the common cold.  Essiac elevates the immune system.  I've

been taking one once a day for seven years, and in 7 years I haven't had a

cold, flu or virus.

 

ER:  And all of this from a simple Native herbal remedy?

 

GG:  Yes.  Although Rene did alter it.  She altered it with Turkish rhubarb

root (Rheum palmatum)....

 

ER:  Turkish rhubarb root certainly is not native in this country, nor

available here.  Herbals from foreign countries are fumigated and irradiated,

so is it a good idea to use the Turkish rhubarb?

 

GG:  You can substitute ordinary rhubarb root.  The other 2 ingredients are

burdock root (Arctium lappa) and the inner bark of slippery elm (Ulmus fulva). 

They are easy to obtain, usually.  Sheep's sorrel, Rumex acetosella, is what

destroys the cancer cells.  The other 3 herbs are blood purifiers.

     Essiac elevates the enzyme system and gives all cancer patients and AIDS

patients the enzymes that have been destroyed.  Essiac elevates the hormone

system, which elevates the immune system, so the body can cure its own

disease.

 

ER:  What about quantities?  Some herbals are toxic.

 

GG:  ...You can take Essiac safely, through all the clinical trials that have

been done, up to six ounces a day....

 

ER:  ...Would you tell people how to get your book and the information on

Essiac?

 

GG:  They simply call me in California at 310-271-9931.  The book is $35.00. 

The formula is free.

 

In July 1991, the Canadian Journal of Herbalism published an article, "Old

Ontario Remedies," about Essiac.  The article gives specific information on

the ingredients of Essiac....

 

The article also warns of high oxalic acid content in two of the herbs, making

the remedy unsafe for persons with kidney ailments or arthritic conditions.

...

Write Ontario Herbalists Association, M. J. Pimentel MH, 7 Alpine Ave.,

Toronto, Ontario, Canada M6P 3R6 for information on obtaining a copy of the

July 1991 issue, Vol xii, No iii of the Canadian Journal of Herbalism.



-- 



Have fun!



   =-Kathy->                                   waddell@firnvx.firn.edu









==========

Subject: Re: ESSIAC?

From: waddell@firnvx.firn.edu

Date: 22 Nov 93 09:31:19 EST

--------

In article <1993Nov21.134006.1@firnvx.firn.edu>, 

   waddell@firnvx.firn.edu writes:

>.. 

> My sister brought to my attention an article on Essiac in Wildfire Vol. 6 No.

> 1 titled "Essiac: Nature's Cure for Cancer, An interview with Dr. Gary L.

> Glum" by Elizabeth Robinson. 

> ...

> ER:  Have you any personal experiences with Essiac?

>  

> GG:  Yes< I can give you an example.  He was a 1-yr-old boy named Toby Wood.

                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^



Although there are a few other typos this is the most confusing, it

should be "10-year-old boy". 



Sorry.

-- 



Have fun!



   =-Kathy->                                   waddell@firnvx.firn.edu









==========

Subject: extraction of essential oils

From: Josh@flux.demon.co.uk (Joshua Portway)

Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 01:04:32 GMT

--------

Could anyone offer any help or advise about any good books, about how

to extract essential oils from herbs and plants please ? Is there any

info on-line anywhere ?



josh.









==========

Subject: Re: extraction of essential oils

From: klier@cobra.uni.edu

Date: 22 Nov 93 18:34:28 -0500

--------

In article <CGtHnL.9p@demon.co.uk>, Josh@flux.demon.co.uk (Joshua Portway) writes:

> Could anyone offer any help or advise about any good books, about how

> to extract essential oils from herbs and plants please ? Is there any

> info on-line anywhere ?



Enfleurage, extraction with cold fats, is easy.  Take a glass sheet

smeared with a thin film of fat (hydrogenated vegetable oil works fine)

and place it in a covered container with the flowers (leaves, etc.) you

want to extract.  Replace plants daily.  When the fat is scented

strongly enough to suit, you can use as is, distill, solvent extract,

or steam distill.



Kay Klier   Biology Dept  UNI











==========

Subject: essential oil extraction

From: vincent@erich.triumf.ca (Bill Vincent)

Date: 20 Nov 1993 20:59 PST

--------

With regard to the inquirery of extraction methodologies

I suggest looking into CO2 super critical fluid extraction at your local

engineering library or gopher sight.  



============================================================================                   

"et in Arcadia id..."                      Bill Vincent

                                        "using my brother's account"     









==========

Subject: re: essential oil extraction

From: sbialkow@cc.usu.edu (Stephen Bialkowski)

Date: 22 Nov 93 10:50:50 MDT

--------



In article <20NOV199320595387@erich.triumf.ca> vincent@erich.triumf.ca (Bill Vincent) writes:

>With regard to the inquirery of extraction methodologies

>I suggest looking into CO2 super critical fluid extraction at your local

>engineering library or gopher sight.  

>

>============================================================================                   

>"et in Arcadia id..."                      Bill Vincent

>                                        "using my brother's account"     

This is a rather new technique that costs quite a bit to use.  You should

look into "A Modern Herbal" Dover (author? I forget) for some of the more

traditional methods.  The most common is to use alcohols, either wood 

(methanol) or grain (ethanol) as the extracting fluid.  

Stephen Bialkowski









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)

Date: 22 Nov 1993 19:27:57 GMT

--------

In article <1993Nov22.105050.4412@cc.usu.edu> sbialkow@cc.usu.edu (Stephen Bialkowski) writes:

>

>In article <20NOV199320595387@erich.triumf.ca> vincent@erich.triumf.ca (Bill Vincent) writes:

>>With regard to the inquirery of extraction methodologies

>>I suggest looking into CO2 super critical fluid extraction at your local

>>engineering library or gopher sight.  

>

>This is a rather new technique that costs quite a bit to use.  You should

>look into "A Modern Herbal" Dover (author? I forget) for some of the more

>traditional methods.  The most common is to use alcohols, either wood 

>(methanol) or grain (ethanol) as the extracting fluid.  



Actually, it's possible to do CO2 fluid extraction in your garage, although

not one of the more pleasant things to do.



Using grain alcohol for extraction, however, is pretty easy, but there are

a lot of substances that may not be soluble in alcohol.  Acetone and ether

are also fairly popular, but the latter is becoming very difficult to obtain

from your local pharmacy.

--scott

-- 

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: sbialkow@cc.usu.edu Stephen Bialkowski

Date: 22 Nov 93 19:52:40 MDT

--------



In article <2cr3rt$t7o@reznor.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey) writes:

>In article <1993Nov22.105050.4412@cc.usu.edu> sbialkow@cc.usu.edu (Stephen Bialkowski) writes:

>>

>>In article <20NOV199320595387@erich.triumf.ca> vincent@erich.triumf.ca (Bill Vincent) writes:

>>>With regard to the inquirery of extraction methodologies

>>>I suggest looking into CO2 super critical fluid extraction at your local

>>>engineering library or gopher sight.  

>>

>>This is a rather new technique that costs quite a bit to use.  You should

>>look into "A Modern Herbal" Dover (author? I forget) for some of the more

>>traditional methods.  The most common is to use alcohols, either wood 

>>(methanol) or grain (ethanol) as the extracting fluid.  

>

>Actually, it's possible to do CO2 fluid extraction in your garage, although

>not one of the more pleasant things to do.

But for people who don't know chemical extractions, the cost of the high 

pressure/temperature equipment, pressure regulators, and the like could be

as high as the critical temperature!  I'd stick with regular old alcohol 

anyday (or every day!).

>

>Using grain alcohol for extraction, however, is pretty easy, but there are

>a lot of substances that may not be soluble in alcohol.  Acetone and ether

>are also fairly popular, but the latter is becoming very difficult to obtain

>from your local pharmacy.

Ya, especially because of the folks who have used these to free-base cocain.

In addition, these substances are highly volatile and flamable.  Not the kind

of stuff a novice should be fooling around with.  "A Modern Herbal" gives some

recipies that use oils (vegetable oils) as the extractant.  Of course the

viscosity is high and mixing can be a problem.  

Stephen









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: ady1691@zeus.tamu.edu (YAKIMOVICZ, ANN DENISE)

Date: 25 Nov 1993 12:25 CDT

--------

To obtain essential oils which are most useful in both

physical and psychological therapeutic situations, I

recommend you look into steam extraction and distillation.

With other methods, you really don't know *what* residual

solvents remain in your finished product.



Be careful to choose plants from the purest sources, to

start with...organically or biodynamically grown.  Watch

the environmental limits if you choose to harvest wild

plants.



Basic chemistry books, and recent books on aromatherapy,

can provide details of the distillation process.



Ann Yakimovicz

Aromatherapist

ady1691@venus.tamu.edu 









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: raman@violet.berkeley.edu ()

Date: 23 Nov 1993 03:13:07 GMT

--------



I have found that simply putting plant matter into a bottle of olive oil

works very well.  The most effective approach is to start with a half-full

bottle of oil, put as much plant matter as possible in, and leave

this in the sun or heat it on the stove gently (like in a double

boiler).  Then, change the plant matter (say, daily, for the sun method)

until the oil takes on the scent of the plant being extracted.  Fresh

plants/flowers work best, but I have had some success extracting oils

from dried herbs, as well, with this method.  You will never get very

concentrated extracts this way, but depending on the use you have in

mind, this may be sufficient.



Nerine Cherepy

Department of Chemistry

University of California, Berkeley

nerine@zinc.cchem.berkeley.edu













==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: jwr9311@u.cc.utah.edu (Joseph Roberts)

Date: 22 Nov 1993 20:47:15 -0700

--------



I would like to reccomend a new book that deals with herbal medicine

including how to obtain the various treatment types (oils, infusions,

tinctures, decoctions, etc). The book is "THE COMPLETE MEDICINAL HERBAL"

by Penelope Ody. The $29.95 book is coffee-table size in full color with

descriptions of herbs and plants, common usages, medical usages (does not

diagnose but states what has been used -- also suggests, probably for

legal reasons, that a doctor should always be consulted), and a how on

extracting the various treatments.



It is an excellent reference work, especially for the novice like me.





-- 

Joseph W. Roberts                            (801) 581-6181                

Middle East Center                           Joseph.Roberts@m.cc.utah.edu  

University of Utah

Salt Lake City, UT 84112









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: Richard.Boyd@f9721.n246.z2.fidonet.org (Richard Boyd)

Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 11:14:24 +0200

--------

 -=> Quoting Scott Dorsey to All <=-



 SD> From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)

 SD> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs



 SD> In article <1993Nov22.105050.4412@cc.usu.edu> sbialkow@cc.usu.edu

 SD> (Stephen Bialkowski) writes: >



 SD> Using grain alcohol for extraction, however, is pretty easy, but there

 SD> are a lot of substances that may not be soluble in alcohol.  Acetone

 SD> and ether are also fairly popular, but the latter is becoming very

 SD> difficult to obtain from your local pharmacy.



Try looking in a auto supply store for ether. It is quite often

used to start difficult moters.

                                  Rich

... Freedom begins when you tell Grundy to go fly a kite.

 * Origin: Infinite Improbability Board (2:246/9721)









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 26 Nov 1993 17:04 PST

--------

In article <754308159.AA04417@krypta.in-berlin.de>, Richard.Boyd@f9721.n246.z2.fidonet.org (Richard Boyd) writes...

> -=> Quoting Scott Dorsey to All <=-

> 

> SD> From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)

> SD> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

> 

> SD> In article <1993Nov22.105050.4412@cc.usu.edu> sbialkow@cc.usu.edu

> SD> (Stephen Bialkowski) writes: >

> 

> SD> Using grain alcohol for extraction, however, is pretty easy, but there

> SD> are a lot of substances that may not be soluble in alcohol.  Acetone

> SD> and ether are also fairly popular, but the latter is becoming very

> SD> difficult to obtain from your local pharmacy.

> 

>Try looking in a auto supply store for ether. It is quite often

>used to start difficult moters.

>                                  Rich



   Yes, acetone (methyl-methyl ketone) is used in Automotive applications, but

 usually as a cleaner or as a paint solvent.  What is used to start hard-to-

 start engines is an ETHER, not a KETONE, as far as I know.  We can buy

 pressurized cans of (di-ethyl?) ether here for exactly this purpose.



   Incidentally, ethers make terrific solvents and extractors.  But they

 are ***very*** ***very*** explosive.  (I don't know if this is true of

 all the modern plastics used for the job, but I have many times cleaned the

 plastic lenses of my eye-glasses in acetone, and it did not hurt them.  

 However, the optical technicians tell me that ETHER will indeed dissolve the

 plastic.   Just goes to show you how much more powerful a solvent ether is.

 If you try cleaning your plastic (uncoated) lenses with acetone, I cannot

 say what the results would be in *your* case, however.  So you're on your

 own there.)



   There have been illicit-drug-manufacturing facilities that have blown

 up because of mis-handling of ether.  I hear that a lot of them use pure

 acetone now, and, as such, the supply of really pure acetone is restricted.

 Who knows what's in the acetone you buy in the hardware or automotive store

 now?!  Of course, if you knew what you were doing you could probably test it

 and purify it, but that would probably require special knowledge and certainly

 would require special equipment.



   Beware that any solvents meant for Automotive use may have impurities

 in them that do not evaporate, but that may remain in the solute after the

 solvent has evaporated.  These may be toxic.  There is NO NEED for extreme

 purity in an Automotive application, so don't expect it.  Rather, I would

 expect the opposite, i.e., that it probably would be contaminated with some

 kind of nasty stuff to prevent its use in the illicit drug trade.



   Anything you use for herbal extractions that will be used INTERNALLY had

 better be ****very*** pure or else ***very*** harmless.



 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)

Date: 27 Nov 1993 01:10:27 GMT

--------

> SD> Using grain alcohol for extraction, however, is pretty easy, but there

> SD> are a lot of substances that may not be soluble in alcohol.  Acetone

> SD> and ether are also fairly popular, but the latter is becoming very

> SD> difficult to obtain from your local pharmacy.

>

>Try looking in a auto supply store for ether. It is quite often

>used to start difficult moters.



Starting ether is a mixture of low purity ether and various light

petroleum distillates.  I wouldn't use it for anything that I was 

going to put into my body, personally, since it's a mixture of so

many different compounds that it's difficult to tell what

has been removed when you boil the solvents off, and what hasn't.

--scott

-- 

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: j0m1742@venus.tamu.edu (MANHART, JAMES)

Date: 29 Nov 1993 08:23 CDT

--------

In article <754308159.AA04417@krypta.in-berlin.de>, Richard.Boyd@f9721.n246.z2.fidonet.org (Richard Boyd) writes...

> 

>Try looking in a auto supply store for ether. It is quite often

>used to start difficult moters.





I would not recommend the use of ether, it is extremely flammable

and very dangerous in inexperienced hands.  It is heavier than air and

will move to the lowest surface in the room and ignite with the 

slightest spark.  It is also famous for exploding inside refrigerators. 

There is no container than can efficiently contain the fumes, the fumes

fill up the inside of the refrigerator, the ether is ignited

and you have a refrigerator door flying across the room.



*********************************************************************

Jim Manhart, Dept. of Biology, Texas A&M University, College Station, 

TX 77843-3258, (409) 845-3356, email:  J-Manhart@TAMU.EDU (Internet) 

*********************************************************************









==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: henley@eng.auburn.edu (James Paul Henley)

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 14:27:47 GMT

--------

In article <29NOV199308234067@venus.tamu.edu> j0m1742@venus.tamu.edu (MANHART, JAMES) writes:

>In article <754308159.AA04417@krypta.in-berlin.de>, Richard.Boyd@f9721.n246.z2.fidonet.org (Richard Boyd) writes...

>> 

>>Try looking in a auto supply store for ether. It is quite often

>>used to start difficult moters.

>

>

>I would not recommend the use of ether, it is extremely flammable

>and very dangerous in inexperienced hands.  It is heavier than air and

>*********************************************************************



Just to add my $0.02 here...



The problem with ether is that if you keep a partially filled container of

ether, containing a mixture of air and ether vapor,  the ether and oxygen form

a peroxide that deposits on the walls of the container.  It is this peroxide

that is highly explosive.  This reaction is slow, so it is usually a problem

with partially filled ether containers that have been sitting on the shelf

a long time.  As long as you have a nearly full container, and you purge the

air, then it is not so dangerous.   In an aerosol can, there is no air, so 

the problem does not exist.  ( which is why the pressurized cans of ether 

starting fluid are not that dangerous ) As with any volatile flammable liquid,

a mixture of ether vapor and air is explosive, but the peroxide deposits

are as dangerous as nitro glycerin.  Also, peroxides present in the liquid

ether can explode during distillation.



There are methods of detecting and removing peroxides from ether, and unless

you practice these methods, liquid ether in unpressurized containers is

dangerous.



See: _Morrison and Boyd Organic Chemistry_, Fourth Edition, Robert Morrison

and Robert Boyd, Allyn and Bacon Inc.,  1983, pages 534-535 (in 4th ed.)

for more information.



James P. Henley Jr.

Visiting Assistant Professor

Department of Chemical Engineering

Auburn University











==========

Subject: Re: essential oil extraction

From: klier@cobra.uni.edu

Date: 30 Nov 93 20:14:30 -0600

--------

In article <henley.931130082747@einstein.che.eng.auburn.edu>, henley@eng.auburn.edu (James Paul Henley) writes:

> In article <29NOV199308234067@venus.tamu.edu> j0m1742@venus.tamu.edu (MANHART, JAMES) writes:

>>In article <754308159.AA04417@krypta.in-berlin.de>, Richard.Boyd@f9721.n246.z2.fidonet.org (Richard Boyd) writes...

>>> 

>>>Try looking in a auto supply store for ether. It is quite often

>>>used to start difficult moters.



>>I would not recommend the use of ether, it is extremely flammable

>>and very dangerous in inexperienced hands.  It is heavier than air and

>>*********************************************************************



> The problem with ether is that if you keep a partially filled container of

> ether, containing a mixture of air and ether vapor,  the ether and oxygen form

> a peroxide that deposits on the walls of the container.  It is this peroxide

> that is highly explosive.  



How explosive can small quantities of ether be?  My ex- found out

when he dumped a few milliliters of ether (maybe a teaspoon or so)

down a drain in the lab... and later turned on some VERY hot water.

The heat from the water ignited the ether fumes, and there were

little explosions in all the drains in the lab...  Blew a hole

in one of the drainpipes, too.



Don't mess with ether... go sit in the middle of the freeway if you

want a thrill --- it's safer than playing with ether.



Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI









==========

Subject: essential oil extraction

From: chastang@beagle.Colorado.EDU (CHASTANG JULIEN)

Date: 2 Jul 1994 20:36:46 GMT

--------

I'm looking for any information on how to extract essential oils from

seeds, barks, etc. Please give me the location of the faq if this information

may be found in there. Thanks.



-Julien











==========

Subject: essential oil extraction

From: bill.lambdin@pcohio.com (Bill Lambdin)

Date: Wed,  6 Jul 94 19:37:00 -0500

--------

>From CHASTANG JULIEN To ALL  about essential oil extraction on 07-02-94



CJ [I'm looking for any information on how to extract essential oils fro

CJ [seeds, barks, etc. Please give me the location of the faq if this in

CJ [may be found in there. Thanks.



I would like to know that facts about that issue myself. I have heard 

several ways to extract the oils that I have bought the little kit from 

Edmund Scientific catalog.

 

This talks about a 5 step process, and comes with a solar stil or 

concentration unit. for extracting the oil.



If you're interested, the item number is R71,684, and sells for $29.95



In addition to the unit, it says that you will need to supply two 

ingredients.

 

lard

undenatured ethyl alcohol (grain alcohol)

 

If this process works, I will post a message.

 

Many people suggest using a tincture of the herb. This is done by 

placing the dried herb in a jar, and pouring enough Undenatured Ethyl 

Alcohol in the jar to cover the herb. Sit this back two weeks, and 

strain the liquid and throw away the dried herb.

 

This works great for some things, but I need the pure essential oil for 

salves, etc. They would be too thin if I were to add 2 fl OZs of the 

tincture ro 4OZs of salve as well as very painful when applying the 

alcohol laden salve to fresh cuts and scrapes. etc.





>Bill<



bill.lambdin@pcohio.com - PGP key available by request

PGP - 8D 3C D4 7A 9D 98 08 6F  61 67 57 83 90 B6 76 53



---

 * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY









==========

Subject: PMS

From: vincent@erich.triumf.ca (Bill Vincent)

Date: 20 Nov 1993 21:31 PST

--------

Further comments on this subject; I attended a lecture by Bill Mitchel,

Biochemist who, at the time was studying the effects of adgent orange on

Vietnam Vets. His associated findings involving the liver in heme production

and corresponding lack of it produced further investigations into accute

intermittant porphorea {spelling was never my forte). Various factors

contributed to heme production losses including lead poisoning which blocked

the ferro=chelatase enzyme from converting dietary iron into heme.  As well

various excessive demands on the alpha-reductase enzyme from dietary

improprietary foods caused the beta-reductase enzyme to "take up the slack"

The down stream result of this secondary enzyme via its subordinate pathways 

was to produce excessive hormonal imbalances in the brain responsible for PMS.

Various bogus fats such as long chain saturated Hard fats are particularly

efficient at consuming alpha-reductase. So are various environmental pollutants

such as paint fumes & car exha Oranges are rich in dietary beta

beta-reductase which can be very dangerous to PMS sufferers or persons with

taxed livers. Pure licorice is rich in dietary alpha-reductase which the body

needs lots of for PMS sufferers. Good dietary sources of essential fatty acids

balanced in omega 3's and omega 6's and NO SATURATED FATS help the liver by

not taxing the alpha_reductase enzyme cycle. Excessive amounts of

beta-reductase cause a piquement change in the skin adding a browning to the

face especially under the eyes. Ingesting dietary sources of alph-reductase

from licorice (not artificial licorice flavour) can effect a resultant shift in

the skin color within as little as 15 minutes. This produces some symptomology

feedback with regards the alpha-beta reductase balances. Perhaps this finding

cross references one small aspect of the ancient Chineese art of face reading

where brown-gray circles under the eyes indicated a liver problem and just

brown circles under the eyes indicated a kidney problem. Both organs are

involved in the heme cycle pathways. 

Bill Mitchel was practicing in Seattle and was teaching at the John Bastyre

College.









============================================================================                   

"et in Arcadia id..."                      Bill Vincent

                                        "using my brother's account"     









==========

Subject: Mind and herbs.

From: weigand@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Steven Weigand)

Date: 21 Nov 1993 17:28:40 GMT

--------

Is there any herb that is reported to have positive effects on

things like memory,  concentration,  analytical thinking, etc.?

Anything related to the brain?



Just curious, 

 - Steve Weigand

  (weigand@udel.edu)













==========

Subject: Re: Mind and herbs.

From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)

Date: 21 Nov 1993 09:48 PST

--------

In article <2co8g9$4f7@louie.udel.edu>, weigand@udel.edu writes...

#Is there any herb that is reported to have positive effects on

#things like memory,  concentration,  analytical thinking, etc.?

#Anything related to the brain?



   I find coffee helpful.  It's the caffeine.  :-)



#Just curious, # - Steve Weigand  #  (weigand@udel.edu)



 Just being funny.   -- Fred.



   More seriously, though, there was a Scientific American or Discover

 article quite a few years ago on increasing the neurotransmitter

 concentrations in the brains of elderly patients.  As I recall, it seemed 

 that the neurotransmitter glutamic acid noticeably improved the responses

 that you mention when it was administered to elderly test patients.



   So I suppose foods naturally rich in that, or its progenitors, might have

 some chance of being what you want.  The chemically related, artificial food

 additive mono-sodium glutamate, however, was NOT a wise choice in most cases

 due to its potential side effects <allergic reactions and disturbances of 

 blood-pressure regulation mechanisms are two known powerful side effects,

 especially if the patient is already on some other types of medications>.



 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca

 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278

 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074

 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3



 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.

 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.









==========

Subject: sweating

From: chalmers@nbnet.nb.ca (J.G. Chalmers JH SCHOOL)

Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 21:10:07 GMT

--------

This may sound like a stupid question but I am gong to ask it anyway. Does 

anyboyd know of some herbal treatment to reduce sweating?  I have treid 

virtually every anti-perspirant on the market and none seems effective.  I 

am not talkign about body odor -- I dont have to deal with that one, thank 

God!  It is just the sweating.  It is very embarrassing.









==========

Subject: chealating agents

From: lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu (CLAIGEANN)

Date: 22 Nov 1993 07:36:20 -0600

--------

I was wondering if there were any natural chelating(sp?) agents that would

take large metal ions out of bone.

I had a little fun with lead at a summer job and my lead level is nice

and low, but it is now in my bones, and I was wondering if I could get rid of

it, without extreme measures, hopefully by altering my diet

I dont get a change to read USENET news that often so if you could mail me

at:

lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu

or

lembke@ceramics.bitnet

it would be great

thanks

brett









==========

Subject: re: chealating agents

From: sbialkow@cc.usu.edu (Stephen Bialkowski)

Date: 22 Nov 93 10:55:38 MDT

--------



In article <00975E9A.FEB5A240.32238@bigvax.alfred.edu> lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu (CLAIGEANN) writes:

>I was wondering if there were any natural chelating(sp?) agents that would

>take large metal ions out of bone.

>I had a little fun with lead at a summer job and my lead level is nice

>and low, but it is now in my bones, and I was wondering if I could get rid of

>it, without extreme measures, hopefully by altering my diet

>I dont get a change to read USENET news that often so if you could mail me

>at:

>lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu

>or

>lembke@ceramics.bitnet

>it would be great

>thanks

>brett

Of course Nature's chelator is the porphorin system.  These are in many enzymes and hemoglobin

A local company, Porphorin Products, manufactures a number of synthetic analogs to the

Nature's wonders.  They are located in Logan, Utah.  

Lead specific binding is not all that difficult.  You should go to the doctor.

Stephen









==========

Subject: Re: chealating agents

From: feldman@deshaw.com (David Feldman)

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 21:00:31 GMT

--------

sbialkow@cc.usu.edu (Stephen Bialkowski) writes:





>In article <00975E9A.FEB5A240.32238@bigvax.alfred.edu>

>lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu (CLAIGEANN) writes:



>>I was wondering if there were any natural chelating(sp?) agents that would

>>take large metal ions out of bone.  I had a little fun with lead at a

>>summer job and my lead level is nice and low, but it is now in my bones,

>>and I was wondering if I could get rid of it, without extreme measures,

>>hopefully by altering my diet I dont get a change to read USENET news that

>>often so if you could mail me at:

>>lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu

>>or

>>lembke@ceramics.bitnet

>>it would be great

>>thanks

>>brett



>Of course Nature's chelator is the porphorin system.  These are in many

>enzymes and hemoglobin A local company, Porphorin Products, manufactures a

>number of synthetic analogs to the Nature's wonders.  They are located in

>Logan, Utah.  Lead specific binding is not all that difficult.  You should

>go to the doctor.  Stephen



Stephen,



Do you mean porphyrin?  I have very high levels of copraporphyrins and knew

that this could deplete my body of copper.  Do you have any references as to

the chelating nature of porphyrins?  I am now wondering if this isn't the

mysterious cause of the loss of Zn/Mn in my body.  If so, I am really going

to be pissed that it took me this long to find this out.



=-Dave-F->

-- 

_   /|					Dave Feldman

\'o.O'					feldman@deshaw.com

=(___)=

   U					DFA : land of wonder and enchantment









==========

Subject: Re: chealating agents

From: news@cc.usu.edu

Date: 30 Nov 93 10:52:29 MDT

--------



In article <CH9uCw.8H5@deshaw.com> feldman@deshaw.com (David Feldman) writes:

>sbialkow@cc.usu.edu (Stephen Bialkowski) writes:

>

>

>>In article <00975E9A.FEB5A240.32238@bigvax.alfred.edu>

>>lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu (CLAIGEANN) writes:

>

>>>I was wondering if there were any natural chelating(sp?) agents that would

>>>take large metal ions out of bone.  I had a little fun with lead at a

>>>summer job and my lead level is nice and low, but it is now in my bones,

>>>and I was wondering if I could get rid of it, without extreme measures,

>>>hopefully by altering my diet I dont get a change to read USENET news that

>>>often so if you could mail me at:

>>>lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu

>>>or

>>>lembke@ceramics.bitnet

>>>it would be great

>>>thanks

>>>brett

>

>>Of course Nature's chelator is the porphorin system.  These are in many

>>enzymes and hemoglobin A local company, Porphorin Products, manufactures a

>>number of synthetic analogs to the Nature's wonders.  They are located in

>>Logan, Utah.  Lead specific binding is not all that difficult.  You should

>>go to the doctor.  Stephen

>

>Stephen,

>

>Do you mean porphyrin?  I have very high levels of copraporphyrins and knew

>that this could deplete my body of copper.  Do you have any references as to

>the chelating nature of porphyrins?  I am now wondering if this isn't the

>mysterious cause of the loss of Zn/Mn in my body.  If so, I am really going

>to be pissed that it took me this long to find this out.

>

>=-Dave-F->

>-- 

>_   /|					Dave Feldman

>\'o.O'					feldman@deshaw.com

>=(___)=

>   U					DFA : land of wonder and enchantment









==========

Subject: Re: chealating agents

From: news@cc.usu.edu

Date: 30 Nov 93 13:46:28 MDT

--------



>In article <CH9uCw.8H5@deshaw.com> feldman@deshaw.com (David Feldman) writes:

>Do you mean porphyrin?  I have very high levels of copraporphyrins and knew

>that this could deplete my body of copper.  Do you have any references as to

>the chelating nature of porphyrins?  I am now wondering if this isn't the

>mysterious cause of the loss of Zn/Mn in my body.  If so, I am really going

>to be pissed that it took me this long to find this out.



Yes: porphyrin.  Sorry I'm such a poor speller.  Porphyrines are wonderful

chelators.  They are a planar heterocyclic ring system with pyrrole nitrogens

directed toward the center.  The metal sits in the "pocket" of the 4 pyrrole

rings.  Metal binding constants tend to be large compared to other chelators.

Many enzymes and in particular, "heme" proteins have porphyrin chelator systems.



There are many known natural porphyrins.  The distinction between them lies in

oxidation state of the interconnecting structure comprising the molecule.  

coproporphyrin is just one of the class.  



As for your lack of Zn and Mn, I'm not an M.D., but I would suspect that if 

you have an excess of Cu depleting coproporphyrins, this would also cause

other metal deficiencies.  Porphyrines have high binding constants for

all transition metals and may not be all that selective.  



For more information, pick up an introductory biochemistry text.



Stephen Bialkowski











==========

Subject: Re: chealating agents

From: LOHSEACH@MAX.CC.Uregina.CA

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 20:50:27 CST

--------

In article <00975E9A.FEB5A240.32238@bigvax.alfred.edu>

lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu (CLAIGEANN) writes:

 

>I was wondering if there were any natural chelating(sp?) agents that would

>take large metal ions out of bone.

>I had a little fun with lead at a summer job and my lead level is nice

>and low, but it is now in my bones, and I was wondering if I could get rid of

>it, without extreme measures, hopefully by altering my diet

>I dont get a change to read USENET news that often so if you could mail me

>at:

>lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu

>or

>lembke@ceramics.bitnet

>it would be great

>thanks

>brett

take organically bound selenium, 400 micrograms per day.  I recommend

Nutrition 21 brand, as many selenium products claim to be yeast-based,

but are only inorganic selenium salts mixed with yeast.  Yeast grown in

a selenium-rich medium is most effectively taken up by the human body

and is also better tolerated.

 

 

 

 

 

lohseach@max.cc.uregina.ca   achim.lohse@f45.n140.z1.fidonet.org

 

  snail: Box 20033, Regina Sk, Canada S4P 4J7

 

 

 









==========

Subject: Re: chealating agents

From: LOHSEACH@MAX.CC.Uregina.CA

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 21:21:58 CST

--------

In article <16C8E12529.LOHSEACH@MAX.CC.Uregina.CA>

LOHSEACH@MAX.CC.Uregina.CA writes:

 

>

>In article <00975E9A.FEB5A240.32238@bigvax.alfred.edu>

>lembke@bigvax.alfred.edu (CLAIGEANN) writes:

>

>>I was wondering if there were any natural chelating(sp?) agents that would

>>take large metal ions out of bone.

>>brett

 

>take organically bound selenium, 400 micrograms per day.  I recommend

>Nutrition 21 brand, as many selenium products claim to be yeast-based,

>but are only inorganic selenium salts mixed with yeast.  Yeast grown in

>a selenium-rich medium is most effectively taken up by the human body

>and is also better tolerated.

>

(self) CORRECTION! I should have said 200 mcg. per day. 400 is getting

into the theraputic range, and should be taken under medical supervision

to be absolutely safe (given the unknown factor of intake through

food or industrial sources).

>

>

Achim

>

>









==========

Subject: herbal cleansing bath

From: bevan@aa.wl.com (Beth Bevan)

Date: 22 Nov 1993 14:42:12 GMT

--------



A month or so ago, someone posted  

about a herbal cleansing bath. I 

saved it, but during a purge to 

free up disk space, I removed it.



Could someone please post or email

it.



Thanks









Beth Bevan

bevan@aa.wl.com













==========

Subject: Cleansing the System

From: z_leachms@ccsvax.sfasu.edu

Date: 22 Nov 93 19:30:35 CST

--------

Dear Fellows,

I see demands for an Herbal cleansing bath.

This is much more simple, and as good as anything you can do.



Eat nothing but Raw Apples for 3 days.  Include water of course.

At the end of this period drink .25 cup olive oil and be sure to stay near a

bathroom for a few hours after drinking the oil.



This cleans the toxins out of a system.



A good high colonic per week does a good job too.



Best of luck,

Matthew S. Leach











==========

Subject: Re: Cleansing the System

From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)

Date: 23 Nov 1993 03:59:53 GMT

--------

In article <1993Nov22.193035.8138@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_leachms@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:

>Dear Fellows,

>I see demands for an Herbal cleansing bath.

>This is much more simple, and as good as anything you can do.

>

>Eat nothing but Raw Apples for 3 days.  Include water of course.

>At the end of this period drink .25 cup olive oil and be sure to stay near a

>bathroom for a few hours after drinking the oil.



Isn't this called a liver flush? The method I heard about used lemon juice

instead of apples but did use the olive oil. I think this puts considerable 

stress on the liver and causes side effects worth looking into before

undergoing this treatment. I got the idea that this was not a casual

procedure. Professional supervision should probably be sought. I've never

tried it myself but know someone who has.



Lawrence

london@sunSITE.unc.edu









==========

Subject: Re: Cleansing the System

From: gold@ilp.mit.edu (Mark D. Gold)

Date: 23 Nov 93 12:53:54 -0500

--------

In article <1993Nov22.193035.8138@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> 

z_leachms@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:



>Dear Fellows,

>I see demands for an Herbal cleansing bath.

>This is much more simple, and as good as anything you can do.

>

>Eat nothing but Raw Apples for 3 days.  Include water of course.

>At the end of this period drink .25 cup olive oil and be sure to stay near a

>bathroom for a few hours after drinking the oil.



In article <1993Nov22.193035.8138@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>

london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) writes:



>Isn't this called a liver flush? The method I heard about used lemon juice

>instead of apples but did use the olive oil. I think this puts considerable 

>stress on the liver and causes side effects worth looking into before

>undergoing this treatment. I got the idea that this was not a casual

>procedure. Professional supervision should probably be sought. I've never

>tried it myself but know someone who has.



Larry,



It is a very simplified version of a liver and gallbladdar flush.  If 

you're not experienced with cleansing techniques, it should DEFINATELY 

be done under professional supervision (as you suggested).  I've 

included an outline of a liver & gallbladdar flush at the end of this 

post for persons who are experienced with cleansing techniques.



The process does put some stress on the liver and gallbladdar.  Most 

cleansing techniques that get an organ to dump large amounts of toxic 

substances do put some stress on that organ.  The first time I did 

this flush I got out many golf ball-size gallstones as well as lots 

of fat and mucous from the liver.  Of course, what you get out 

depends upon many factors, especially your dietary history.



                             - Mark



***********************************************************************



                 Outline of a Liver & Gallbladdar flush



1.  For one week, drink alot of organic apple cider or juice.  If it is 

    possible, juice it yourself so it is fresh.  This will help to 

    soften the gallstones.



2.  During the week, eat no meat, sugar, dairy, and coffee.  Try to 

    limit the wheat products if possible.



3.  Three hours after lunch on the 7th day, take a very powerful, 

    _natural_ laxative.  It is important to have the bowels moving when 

    the stones get dumped into the intestines.



4.  One or two hours later, drink a cup or two of organic prune 

    juice.



5.  Just before dinner, take a very thorough enema (~6 bags of spring 

    water total) or a colonic.



6.  Dinner should consist of only freshly squeezed orange or lemon 

    juice (organic, of course).



7.  One hour before bed take a mixture of 8 oz. of olive oil and 4-8 

    oz. of fresh squeezed lemon juice.



8.  Lie down in bed on your right side, with your knees pulled up to

    your chest for one hour.  Then try to go to sleep that way if

    possible.



9.  The next morning, take another dose of the very powerful, natural

    laxative.



10. One half hour later, drink up to one quart of prune juice.



You should have a bowel movement sometime that day where you will get 

out gallstones and possibly mucous and fat dumped from the liver.

You may feel slightly nauseous during the day due to the large amount 

of toxic substances being removed from the liver and gallbladdar.









==========

Subject: Essential oil Extraction

From: vincent@erich.triumf.ca (Bill Vincent)

Date: 23 Nov 1993 01:18 PST

--------

My suggestion to look into critical fluid extraction was based on the 

notion of purity and quality of product returned for investment cost.

Granted many of the suggestions put forward are valid, dependant on

the nature, intended use, quality of source material and eventual

outcome you intend. CO2 critical fluid extraction though an engineers

dream (or nightmare) definately yields one of the highest grade and

purest product outcomes available.  



============================================================================                   

"ET in ARcadIA ID..."                      Bill Vincent

                                        "using my brother's account"     









==========

Subject: What is Salix aliba?

From: danielw@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Endangered Species Program)

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 17:35:41 GMT

--------

Does anyone know what this stuff is.  My wife takes several pills of

this every day.  It does what?  It is mixed with an herbal weight loss

program that is very expensive and I was wondering if this has a

common name to find a cheaper formula.  Please respond by Email .

 









==========

Subject: infections

From: stacey@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (Stacey B. Martin)

Date: 24 Nov 1993 16:22:46 GMT

--------

My mom has a bone infection from having her ankle fused several

years ago.The infection did not occur until she came back from

a trip to Russia (she	thinks it was aggravated by the less than

adequate food and living conditions on the trip.) She's had it now

for 3 years.



She takes strong antibiotics, but they don't kill the infection.

The reason may be the methytrexate,which she takes because

she has rheumatoid arthritis (it suppresses the immune system).



She has gone to a Chinese doctor, who has prescribed ginseng and other

herbs. Her general health has improved. At the moment she is out of

ginseng, so I have given her echinacea tincture to take internally

for a couple of weeks and to bathe her foot. Other than echinacea,

does anyone know of any remedies that might possible work for her?

She needs cataract surgery, but she can't have it until the infection

is gone, and that doesn't look like it will happen until she gives

up methytrexate or is the recipient of a miracle.



Any help or suggestions you have would be GREATLY appreciated. You

can post here or mail me at sbm@uoknor.edu.



Stacey









==========

Subject: Seneca Snakeroot

From: somer@bnr.ca (Jim Somerville)

Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 19:04:21 GMT

--------



Hi,



Can anyone tell me anything about Seneca Snakeroot?  What is it used for?

What does it look like?  Is it used for treating snake-bite (and hence its 

name)?

-- 

Jim Somerville 				Phone:	(613) 763-4497

Bell-Northern Research, Stop 149	  ESN:        393-4497

P.O. Box 3511, Station C, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7









==========

Subject: Re: Seneca Snakeroot

From: ar727@yfn.ysu.edu (Kathy Bilton)

Date: 24 Nov 1993 23:19:50 GMT

--------



According to the Flora of WV - Seneca Snakeroot is Polygala senega.  It grows



in dry or moist woods, and on prairies.  Acc. to Cronquist - hthe range is

New Burunswick to Alberta and south to Georgia and Arjkansas.  It

prefers calcareous soilds.  The WvV book, as well as Mabberley, say 

thhat the Indians used the dried roots a s a remedy for snakebite.

-- 









==========

Subject: whooping cough

From: mchamb@vax2.concordia.ca (CHAMBERLAIN, MICHAEL)

Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 19:09:00 GMT

--------

I am looking for info regarding herbal remedies or ameliorants for 

whooping cough and contraindications for pregnant women.

Message-ID: <24NOV199314091416@vax2.concordia.ca>

Organization: Concordia University

News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    



Mike Chamberlain 

e-mail mchamb@vax2.concordia.ca 









==========

Subject: German word for feverfew?

From: frl@verdi.rd.sub.org (Frank Luthe)

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 10:43:33 GMT

--------

Hi all,



recently somebody announced that feverfew would be a good remedy for

migraine. I searched for this word in every reachable dictionary, but

couldn't find it until now.



Would somebody be so kind to tell me the german word for feverfew?



Thanx in advance, 

  Frank



-- 

Frank Luthe, Flensburger Str. 38, 24768 Rendsburg, Germany

email: frl@verdi.rd.sub.org











==========

Subject: Re: German word for feverfew?

From: Baird Stafford <bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com>

Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1993 21:05:39 GMT

--------

In article <1993Nov26.104333.1923@verdi.rd.sub.org> Frank Luthe,

frl@verdi.rd.sub.org writes:

> Would somebody be so kind to tell me the german word for feverfew?



Instead of trying to find it in the vernacular (any vernacular!), try looking

it up as _Chrysanthemum parthenium_.  The herb was brought to North America

from Northern Europe, where one assumes it had been in use for long enough to

build up a library of common names, in all languages.



Baird

__

Baird Stafford  (bstafford@bstafford.ess.harris.com)









==========

Subject: Headaches -- *not* migraines

From: pandora@camelot.bradley.edu (Amy Wedell)

Date: 28 Nov 1993 23:29:00 -0600

--------

My mom and I both suffer from a plethora of sinus headaches and

allergy-related symptoms, and we were both wondering if there were any herbs

that were good for sinus headaches.  I know about feverfew and valerian for

migraines, but since we don't suffer from those, we wanted to know if anyone

knows of any herbs that work well on other kinds of headaches, either as a

preventative or as a treatment during the headache.



Thanks!!! 8)



------<pandora@camelot.bradley.edu>-----From Edith Hamilton's _Mythology_------

 "For Pandora, like all women, was possessed of a lively curiosity.  She _had_

    to know what was in the box.  One day she lifted the lid--and out flew

   plagues innumerable, sorrow and mischief for mankind.  In terror Pandora

      clapped the lid down, but too late.  One good thing, however, was

  there--Hope.  It was the only good the casket had held among the many evils,

      and it remains to this day mankind's sole comfort in misfortune."

--------------Amy Wedell------------------------Bradley University-------------









==========

Subject: Re: Headaches -- *not* migraines

From: j0m1742@venus.tamu.edu (MANHART, JAMES)

Date: 29 Nov 1993 08:32 CDT

--------

In article <pandora.754550732@camelot>, pandora@camelot.bradley.edu (Amy Wedell) writes...

>My mom and I both suffer from a plethora of sinus headaches and

>allergy-related symptoms, and we were both wondering if there were any herbs

>that were good for sinus headaches.  I know about feverfew and valerian for

>migraines, but since we don't suffer from those, we wanted to know if anyone

>knows of any herbs that work well on other kinds of headaches, either as a

>preventative or as a treatment during the headache.

> 



You might try nettle (Urtica dioica), either freeze-dried leaves that

have been ground up and placed in capsules or nettle tea.  Freeze-drying

and/or boiling destroy the irritants.  I typically have a good case of

hay fever in the Fall and it is a matter of choosing of the effects of

the hay fever or the side effects of antihistamines and decongestants.

I tried freeze-dried nettles this year and did not have to take any

over-the-counter remedies at all.  It does not give immediate relief

but it has no side effects and it appeared to work for me.







*********************************************************************

Jim Manhart, Dept. of Biology, Texas A&M University, College Station, 

TX 77843-3258, (409) 845-3356, email:  J-Manhart@TAMU.EDU (Internet) 

*********************************************************************









==========

Subject: Re: Headaches -- *not* migraines

From: mrathor@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Mukesh Rathor)

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 23:44:44 GMT

--------



-- 

In article <pandora.754550732@camelot>, pandora@camelot.bradley.edu (Amy Wedell) writes:

|> My mom and I both suffer from a plethora of sinus headaches and

|> allergy-related symptoms, and we were both wondering if there were any herbs

|> that were good for sinus headaches.  I know about feverfew and valerian for

|> migraines, but since we don't suffer from those, we wanted to know if anyone

|> knows of any herbs that work well on other kinds of headaches, either as a

|> preventative or as a treatment during the headache.

|> 

|> Thanks!!! 8)

|> 

|> ------<pandora@camelot.bradley.edu>-----From Edith Hamilton's _Mythology_------

|>  "For Pandora, like all women, was possessed of a lively curiosity.  She _had_

|>     to know what was in the box.  One day she lifted the lid--and out flew

|>    plagues innumerable, sorrow and mischief for mankind.  In terror Pandora

|>       clapped the lid down, but too late.  One good thing, however, was

|>   there--Hope.  It was the only good the casket had held among the many evils,

|>       and it remains to this day mankind's sole comfort in misfortune."

|> --------------Amy Wedell------------------------Bradley University-------------

 Boy, have I been trying to deal with those pounding *sinus* headaches?

 In my case, the nettles don't work as good. I read that a tea of herb called

 fenugreek is good for sinus drainage. I find the ephedra sinicia from 

 ma-huang (chinese herb) works really well. You can get the tea at health food

store or some grocery stores. U should find in the herbal tea section. Its 

called "Breathe Easy" and comes in tea-bags. If I take it just before my

headache is starting, then I can sometimes stop it. Other herbal stuff I 

found very effective is natural decongestant called: SINUSTOP. Its made by

a company called Murdock (I think!!). But that works extremely well.



Good Luck

 

Mukesh Rathor









==========

Subject: Re: Headaches -- *not* migraines

From: lbrown@opus.nmsu.edu (BROWN)

Date: 6 Dec 1993 01:06:59 GMT

--------

Amy Wedell (pandora@camelot.bradley.edu) wrote:

: My mom and I both suffer from a plethora of sinus headaches and

: allergy-related symptoms, and we were both wondering if there were any herbs

: that were good for sinus headaches.  I know about feverfew and valerian for

                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



Have you ever tried these? We have had good effects from both for

non-migraine headaches.



: migraines, but since we don't suffer from those, we wanted to know if anyone

: knows of any herbs that work well on other kinds of headaches, either as a

: preventative or as a treatment during the headache.



: Thanks!!! 8)



: ------<pandora@camelot.bradley.edu>-----From Edith Hamilton's _Mythology_---



--

lbrown@dante.nmsu.edu



"Life is a big tambourine, the more that you shake it the better it

seems."         Robert Plant - "Down to the Sea"









==========

Subject: I'M GOING NUTS!

From: barspi@wam.umd.edu (Barzilai Spinak)

Date: 29 Nov 1993 16:21:05 GMT

--------

   Well, not really...

My question is: what are the dangers/benefits of eating lots of nuts?

( mainly walnuts, pecans, almonds, and those round brown ones with very hard

shell which are called "avellanas" in Spanish but I don't remember the English

name)



   For some time now, I've been eating a lot of these things at night while

I'm studying. I only know that they have a lot of calories, but I don't

know what they are good or bad for.



(I don't care about the calories and all that because I'm actually underweight

and food doesn't seem to make a difference for me)



+---------------------------------+

|        Barzilai Spinak          |

|   .....      barspi@wam.umd.edu |

|  (-O-O-)     barspi@eng.umd.edu | 

+nnn--U--nnn----------------------+









==========

Subject: Re: I'M GOING NUTS!

From: grimya@caravan.ksu.ksu.edu (Lyn/Grimya)

Date: 29 Nov 1993 13:31:29 -0600

--------







	I don't know a lot about nuts, but if I remember correctly they are

high in triglycerides and cholesterol.  If you have the right genetics, you

can eat them without any problem, but you should probably have your levels

checked sometime to see if you are in a "dangerous" range for either of

these components.

-- 

Seeya!

Lyn/Grimya

grimya@matt.ksu.ksu.edu









==========

Subject: herb vinegars

From: jtaylor@pietro.pichem.adelaide.edu.au (Jo Taylor)

Date: 30 Nov 1993 13:06:31 +1030

--------

I was wondering if anyone has any ideas for mixtures of herbs to use

in making herb vinegars. Any replies would be greatly appreciated.



Jo Taylor





-- 

Jo Taylor

Dept of Chemistry, University of Adelaide, South Australia.

jtaylor@chemistry.adelaide.edu.au









==========

Subject: Re: herb vinegars

From: rharvey@charlie.usd.edu

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 16:52:34 GMT

--------



>I am new to herbs... What is the perpose of an erb vinegar?

>-------

>Dave Brodersen

>daveb@nevada.edu



Herb vinegars are used just like regular vinegar, except the herbs make the

vinegar taste better.  Don't restrict yourself to a recipe.  Any herb will

work, but everyone's tastes are different.  If you don't like how it tastes,

don't make it again!  Some that I like are garlic, dill, oregano, basic, or

rosemary.  You can also flavor cooking oils with herbs if you like.



---Renee

   rharvey@charlie.usd.edu









==========

Subject: SUMMARY: Herbs in medieval brewing... (Long?)

From: miss059@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Rich Bainter)

Date: 30 Nov 1993 09:25:18 -0600

--------



Sorry for not editing more out of the following messages, but it seemed

to be if not needed it atleast was on the subject.







From: DDF2@cornell.edu (David Friedman)



The recipe for mead in Buch von Gute Speise uses hops, sage and a resined

vessel. It is the only usable pre-1600 mead recipes I know of. Curye on

Englysch has two more, although they do not have enough information, in my

judgement, to make it clear how they are really done. If you do not have

access to a copy, and can probably dig out mine.



The Closet of Sir Kenelm Digby, Opened, c. 1660, is the first source I know

of with lots of fermented drinks. There are also a few descriptions of beer

making from the sixteenth century. Harrison's preface to Holinshed's

chronicles has one that mentions hops, arras (?), and bayberries finely

powdered, also long pepper as an alternative.. 



From: billgrae@echonyc.com (Bill Grae)



If you're near a particularly large library, check to see if a copy of

_The Closet of Sir Kenelm Digby, Knight, Opened_.  The book is a

compilation of brewing and meal reciptes assembled in the early 1600's (I

think). Sir Kenelm was fascinated not only with the traditional English

practices of brewing but also the new practices that had been introduced

as a result of contact with "infidels, French, and Germans."



BTW, as I'm sure you're aware, the use or non-use of hops was at one point

a raging controversy in Britain with sufficiently political overtones that

hops were actually banned for a while.



From: isy3wtm@cabell.vcu.edu (William T. McDonald)



Digby is good, but pulls from late in period. There are some earlier

works, German 15th and 16th century, that are specifically about

distillation of spirits. Also, "Il Herbario de Trento", an Italian

herbal from in-period. Also, some research into the origins of

various European liqueurs may reveal the original uses of some of

the herbs and spices in brewing (e.g., hyssop, angelica, anise,

fennel, grains of paradise, cubebs, cumin, cloves, etc.). A review

of the complete Gerard's herbal (versus the excerpt reprints that

are more common) may yield useful information. Also, Bancke's

herbal (English), and a manuscript of Dodoen's (Dutch, from whom

Gerard may have generously 'borrowed').



From: Peter Michael Wolanin <pwolanin@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>



I have a book (_Making Mead_ by Roger Morse) on making mead that has 

the following two books listed as references on early mead making:



_The Closet of the Eminently Learned Sir Kenelme Digbie Kt Opened:

Whereby is Discovered Several Ways for Making of Metheglin, Sider,

Cherry-Wine, &c together with Excellent Directions for Cookery: As also

for Preserving, Conserving, &c._

published in 1669, reprinted in 1910 by Anne Macdonnel.

Digbie was apparently the queen of England's brewer.  Three of the

recipes are reproduced in my book.





_Wassail! in Mazers of Mead_ by G.R. Gayre. Published by Phillimore and

Co. Ltd in 1948.  Supposedly discusses the history of mead from

mithology up to 18th century.





From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)



There is also a single recipe for mead (called "Bouchet", but clearly mead)

in the Menagier, listed under dishes for invalids, as I recall.  There is

some difficulty with working out the measures, though.  It is not reproduced

in the Eileen Power translation, but is in the (complete but not commercially

published) Janet Hinson translation that Cariadoc sells.



I agree absolutely with Cariadoc that the first collection of recipes 

anywhere near extensive enough to tell you anything about customary use

of herbs and other flavorings in brewing is Kenelm Digby.  And the "why"

is far from evident.



From: jab2@stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)



Alecost was used for brewing, I've got some growing in my back garden,

but sadly I haven't any recipes. So if anyone knows what part it did

play let me know. I suspect it was used like hops are now.



The fruit of the service tree was used to make beer in england, and

pubs serving ale made from service fruit were called chequer pubs

because of the trees chequered bark. You can still find old pubs

called chequers which probably started out serving ale from the

service tree.



I have no idea if it had any medicinal properties, but I would

guess its an old beverage because service trees won't seed in our

currently cold climate, so the custom might date to when the country

was warmer a millenium ago? Nowadays the tree will grow from seed in

France but is infertile here where, though it can extend by suckers

from the root system.



When the queen got into the supers of my beehives she layed brood all

over the honey and the result was a bitter tasting honey. In medieval

beekeeping where the queen was not restricted in her movements about

the colony honey flavoured with bitter brood food would be common. We

used the honey to brew a spicy metheglin and it tasted quite good,

perhaps some of the metheglin recipes which use herbs or spices in

mead were a result of brewers making best use of their worst honey?

I suppose spices were quite expensive whereas herbs could be home

grown, so disguising a bad taste might be a more likely use for herbs

than spices?



From: rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)



Do you have the Gayre/Papazian book on mead?  (Brewing Mead / Wassail! In

Mazers of Mead)  There's a bunch of bits scattered through Gayre's part of

the book.



Related specifically to mead, "metheglin" is the term for mead with added

herbs and spices.  It's a Welsh-derived word, a cognate of "medicine",

which seems relevant to your "not used just for taste" comment.



From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L            (MCVAX0::RX31852)



The new Special Issue of Zymurgy has an article by Gary Spedding about

beers without hops. He gives many examples and lists his references.

This would probably give you a running start.



From: jonathan@indial1.io.com (Jonathan David Bow)



For the time period you specified I recommend you consult John Gerard's

_Herbal_, a classic work.  The complete text of the 1633 edition was

republished in 1975 by Dover Publications.  Library of Congress Card No.

74-18719.



From: eden.rain@aldus.com (Eden Rain,Cnslt)

	From: Luxueil on Wed, Nov 17, 1993 2:21 PM



"Cinnamon, Ginger, Nutmeg, and Cloves, and that gave me my jolly red nose"

Words to a song in a c.1600 collection which refer to the spiced used in

ale/beer.  I am *Told* that these were used in place of hops, but since I

know nothing of brewing I don't know how accurate this

is.







From: jschmidt@spiff.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)

	From: lynchl@attmail.com

	Subject: Period Ale



Well, Well.  I hope none of you mind the fact that, since I recieved so

many responses to my offer of help with period brewing, I am writing a

generized response.  If I end up speaking down to someone, I am sorry.



First, a few references:



Lost Country Life, Dorothy Hartly, Pantheon Books.

This one is a must have for anyone with an interest in the 'common life'

of pre-industrial people in England.  Ale and Beer are discussed in 

several places.  Unfortunetly, she seems to equate mashing (of malt) and

hops, as she indicates that mashing was not done until the end of the

mideval period.  This is (very) false.



The Historical Companion to House-Brewing, Clive La Pensee, Montag Pub.

This is a very good historical reference to beer making.  Most of it

is out of period, but there is more here on pre-hop beer making then I

have found anywhere else.  This book includes many period beer recipes,

but most are of German origin, and German adopted hops earlyer the the

English.  Also has very good info on mashing at home!



The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing, Charlie Papazian, Avon.

Good book on beginning and intermediate home brewing.



The New World Guide to Beer, Michael Jackson, Running Press.

Very good book on beer styles world wide.  Some historical info.



All of these (except Hartly) can be purchased mail-order from the

Association of Brewers, (303) 447-0816, weekdays 8-5 Mountain Time.





Next, a simple how-to on brewing.  To those of you who have brewed 

beer before, this is VERY simple and general.  Skip this section.

This example will brew a basic ale.  Generally of an English light

ale type.



To everyone else.  This procedure may sound more complex then that stated

in most beer kits.  I know very few people who follow the directions on

those kits that manage to make good beer.  These instructions are not

goof-proof, but they will minimize the chances for contamination.



Many of you make mead or wine.  That's good, you can use much of the same

equipment.  But beer has a much lower alchohol level, and generally a much

lower acidity as well.  This means that it is much more suseptible to

infection.  Infections in beer can only make the beer taste bad, however,

not hurt you.  One other point, these instructions call for using bleach

as a sanitizer.  Use it.  I know you may use sulphite in wine/mead, but

it doesn't work in beer.



Basic Equipment:

Large (3-4 gal) stainless or enameled pot.  No Aluminum! it will make your

beer taste funny!

5-6 gal food grade plastic bucket (with lid) or glass carboy.

Racking tube.

plastic tubing (3-4 feet).

airlock and drilled stopper for your bucket/carboy.

plastic funnel to fit carboy, if one is used.

48 empty beer or champagne bottles.  Don't use other kinds of bottles,

they are not strong enough.

New bottle caps.

Capper.



Basic Ingrediants:

6-7 pounds of pale / amber / dark unhopped malt extract.  This is 

available in bulk at homebrew stores as a syrup or dry.  Either works.



5 gal Good tasting water.  If you use distilled or purified water, 

you will need to add a 'pinch' (less then 1/4 tsp.) of Epsom salt to it.

The yeast need it.



1-2 oz of Hops (or whatever).  DO NOT buy these from a health

food store, they are not kept well.  Use 'low alpha' varieties like

Hallertauer, Goldings, Fuggles, Tettnanger, Saaz, Cascade, Willamette,

Mt. Hood, etc.  Stay away from varieties like Eroica, Centennial, and

Chinook.  Your friendly, local or mail-order homebrew supply person will

help.



1 T. of 'Irish Moss'.  Available from a homebrew supply or a health food

store.  Not nessessary, but it will make your beer clearer.



10-20 grams of dry Ale yeast.  This comes in 5, 8, and 12 gram packets.  

I prefer 'Whitbread', but any should do.  Stay away from 'Red Star' though



Process:

Night before - boil 3 gal. water. If you are going to add epsom salt, 

do it now.  Let cool while covered.  While cooling,

put 1 oz (a capfull) of unscented bleach in your bucket/carboy, and fill

with tap/hose water.  Let stand for one half to one hour or until the

boiled water is cool enough to add to glass (if the carboy is used).

Empty the bucket/carboy and shake out the drops.  Do not rinse.  The 

very small amount of chlorine left is less than that in your tap water.

Put the boiled water into the bucket/carboy.  Seal it up and leave it

over night.



Next Day - Dissolve extract in 1.75 to 2 gal. water.  Bring to a boil.  

Add Hops. Boil for 1/2 hour uncovered.  Add Irish Moss and boil for 

another 1/2 hour uncovered.  By this point, you should be down to 2 gal.

or so. What you have now is called 'wort' (sounds like 'word'). 

Pour the wort into the water boiled and cooled the night before.  

If you are using a carboy, use a funnel sterilized by pouring boiling 

water through it.  The funnel will direct the hot wort into the cool 

water, cooling it enough not to break the glass (usually...).  Let the 

(thiner) wort cool until the glass/plastic is only warm to the touch

and add the yeast.  Put the air lock on, fill halfway with water, and

let it sit for a week. If a glass carboy is used, don't fill it up to

the neck, leave about 1/2 gal of headroom.  If it foams over anyway,

don't worry.  Just put the (cleaned) airlock back on and clean up.



After a week, sterilize your bottles by running them through a dish washer

or soaking them in a chlorine solution (1 oz to 5 gal).  I have a friend

that bakes them in an oven at 250 degrees for 1/2 hour or so, then lets

them cool in the oven until he needs them...

Boil 3/4 cup of corn sugar (or table sugar, but corn sugar is better) in

3/4 cup of water. let cool.  Sterilize your siphon tube and plastic

tubing in chlorine solution (see above).

Now, if you have TWO carboys or buckets, sterilize the second one, and

siphon the beer into it, leaving the spent yeast behind.  If not, well,

cloudy beer is period.  Add the sugar water to the beer and stir very

gently with the siphon tube.  Don't splash!.  Now, siphon the beer into

the beer bottles carefully.  Do not splash.  Fill each to within an inch

of the top.  Cap them.  Wait for 2-3 weeks before sampling.  The beer

will continue to change over the next month or two.  Depending on how good

you were with sanitation, the beer could last from 1 month (try again!) to

a year or so (you've done this before!).  As Charlie says, "Don't worry,

have a homebrew!"





Now the historical stuff.

Before hops, there was Grout.  If you are German, there was Gruit.  

Grout was the blend of spices and herbs the brewer used to make their

beer interesting.  Fermented malt water is very sweet and bland.

Because of this, brewers generally used at least one bitter herb.  If

they didn't, they chose herbs that tasted good in a sweet medium.  

There arn't a lot of grout recipies, because this was the brewers secret.

Incedently, most period brewers were women.  It was cooking, and therefor

considered womens work, hence the term 'Alewife'.  Even monisaries would

sometimes hire a woman to come in and help the brothers make beer.  Once

brewing became a profitable buisness, instead of housework, well...



Bitter herbs:

Ground Ivy (Alehoof, Creeping Jenny, ...)

Buckbean

Carduus

Centaury

Nettle

Wood Sage

Wormwood

Germander



Less bitter or sweet herbs:

Juniper berries

Sweet Gale

Sweet Woodruff

Lavender

Tansey

Alecost

Comfrey

Dandelion

Elecampane

Eyebright

Hyssop

Mugwort

Pennyroyal

Sage

Coriander seed

Cloves

Seville orange (or any orange) peel

Cinnamon

Vanilla

Ginger

Cherries

Raspberries

etc.



To make a period Ale:

Follow above procedure for making beer, but don't buy hops.  Reduce the

boil to 1/2 hour, and use grout instead.  Some herbs are better added

just after the heat is removed, and stteped, like a tea.



Good Grouts:

1/2 oz Ground Ivy

1/2 oz Juniper

2 oz Woodruff



1 oz Germander

1 oz Coriander

2 oz Orange Peel



1 stick cinnimun

1 oz buckbean



1 oz Ground Ivy

1.5 oz Ginger



Etc. Play around with what you have!



Note: Customers didn't like hops, because they weren't used to them. 

So why, you might ask, did hops take over?  Because when they were used,

beer lasted longer.  Hops are a preservitive.  This means that the beer

made with grout will not last as long as beer made with hops.  You were

warned!  (Although I have no evidence to support it, I suspect that

during the transition from Ale to Beer, brewers would occationally use

both hops and spices in beer.  The hops would keep the beer, the spices

would keep the customer! )  



Fruit beers are very good, add 3-8 pounds at the end of the boil, and let

them soak for 15 min or so...

-- 

Richard Bainter      | "I want to be called COTTONTIPS. There is something 

Phelim Utred Gervas  |  graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with 

Pug                  |  vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes

pug@arlut.utexas.edu |  beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"









==========

Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Herbs in medieval brewing... (Long?)

From: DDF2@cornell.edu (David Friedman)

Date: 30 Nov 1993 23:09:45 GMT

--------

miss059@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Rich Bainter) quotes various replies to his

queries, on which I have only one comment:



> Digbie was apparently the queen of England's brewer.  Three of the

> recipes are reproduced in my book. (one of Rich's correspondents)



Presumably a conclusion based on "Hydromel as I made it weak for the Queen

Mother" or some similar recipe title. I have cooked things for a lot of

people, but I am not their cook, and I don't think Digby was the queen's

brewer.



and then offers some conclusions, recipes, etc.  He never makes it clear,

however, how much of his conclusion is based on period practice and how

much on what he thinks tastes good. In particular, I notice that his

suggested "less bitter or sweet herbs" include vanilla, which comes from

the new world and was certainly not used in medieval brewing.



-- 

David/Cariadoc

DDF2@Cornell.Edu







