

==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Herbs for fractures etc.

From: Penny Hemans <pennyh@THENET.CO.UK>

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:07:41 +0000

--------

My dad slid on the icy pavement yesterday and has a clean break in his shoulder which has

been strapped up and his arm put in a sling.



He is in a fair amount of pain and discomfort and has been prescribed heavy painkillers.  I

do have a comfrey paste ( 'knitbone'  being its common name here).

However, would be grateful for any thoughts and advice on this one please.  Also, he is 78

years old, is in the first stage of alzheimers, and has just begun to lose control of his

bladder.  He is taking Gingko biloba for his circulation/memory.



May I take this opportunity of wishing all the listers A Very Happy New Year.



Penny





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs for fractures etc.

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:26:09 EST

--------

Penny-



Comfery seems to be the herb of choice for broken bones.  Boneset

(Eupatorium perfoliatum) might also be a good choice for healing,

although it is better known as a sudorific.  I might suggest St.

Johnswort (Hypercicum perforatum) as a volnuary, pain reliever and a

nervine, but I am concerned about possible interaction with the

painkillers- you might have to do some research on that.  If he can take

it, it may have the extra benefit of helping the depression that often

accompanies alzheimers.  Black cohosh (Cimifuga racemosa) might be a

better choice.  Filipendula (meadowsweet) is good for pain relief, but

its salicylic acid may compete with his other pain medication.



Avena sativa would be good for incontinence and may contribute to the

shoulder healing because of its nervine properties.  I'd get a good bone

vitamin formula, with bioavailable calcium, magnesium, potassium, boron,

selinium, vitamin D and trace minerals.  Use rosemary and garlic

liberally in food.



When he is out of the cast, massage with a mixed arnica, St. Johnswort,

calendula oil.  Poultices of comfery, muellin and mouse ear (Pilosella

officinarum), with a little cayennne to potentiate, may be useful as

well.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:07:41 +0000 Penny Hemans <pennyh@THENET.CO.UK>

writes:

>My dad slid on the icy pavement yesterday and has a clean break in his

>shoulder which has

>been strapped up and his arm put in a sling.

>

>He is in a fair amount of pain and discomfort and has been prescribed

>heavy painkillers.  I

>do have a comfrey paste ( 'knitbone'  being its common name here).

>However, would be grateful for any thoughts and advice on this one

>please.  Also, he is 78

>years old, is in the first stage of alzheimers, and has just begun to

>lose control of his

>bladder.  He is taking Gingko biloba for his circulation/memory.

>

>May I take this opportunity of wishing all the listers A Very Happy

>New Year.

>

>Penny

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbs and children

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:36:06 -0900

--------

At 11:54 AM 12/30/96 PST, Robin C. Whitmore wrote:

> I DON'T BELEAVE IN GIVING CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF10YEARS OLD

>HERBS.BECAUSE I THINK THEY SHOULD BE OLD ENOUGH TO TELL ME

>HOW THEY FEEL WHEN TAKING HERBS.THERE ARE SO MY DIFFERENT

>HERBS OUT THERE. IF YOU WANT TO GIVE YOUR CHILD HERBS I THINK

>YOU SHOULD TALK WITH SOME ONE WHERE YOU LIVE ABOUT CHILDRENS

>HERBS PRODUCES.AND THEY CAN TELL YOU WHAT ONE'S  ARE RIGHT FOR YOUR CHILD

>AND WHAT AMOUNT YOU SHOULD GIVE YOUR CHILD..

>

>

Having raised 5 children, I must disagree with the first statement.  Even

babies can benefit from proper admistration of mild herbs.  I don't know

what I would have done without chamomile and peppermint.  There's many a

time when a crying, teething baby was soothed by a little chamomile.  It's

not hard to tell how a child feels when consuming the herbs.  Any mom knows

when the medication is effective even in a tiny baby.  It's not too hard to

tell when they are pain free and back to normal temperature.  There's much

you can tell by simply knowing your child.

  However, I absolutely agree that you should have a good source of

information concerning which herbs and dosages are appropriate.  there are

many good books available and of course there are reliable sources on the

internet, the authors of those books.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbs and children

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:41:19 EST

--------

>>Robin

>> I DON'T BELEAVE IN GIVING CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF10YEARS OLD

>>HERBS.

>

>>

>Having raised 5 children, I must disagree with the first statement.

>

>**************************************************************

>*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

>**************************************************************

>

Anita, I've loved your balanced posts since day one of my time on this

list! I have to agree here - are we not to feed our children

lambsquarter, or give them soothing thyme baths, or rub plantain salve on

their poison ivy or give them homemade cough syrup at night when they are

coughing?  Herbs are the BEST things to give a sick child, next to

breastmilk!  Herbs are the best thing to give well children too- my (6)

kids love comfrey cooked with onions and potatoes, chickweed in their

pitas, and iced red raspberry tea in the summer.  Herbs are food!

Granted many are not, but give me a break!  : )



Kim in VA

Who has just finished making a quart of garlic lemonade sweetened with a

touch of stevia for my young son's cold.  Mmmmmmm





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: herbs and children

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 19:40:55 -0500

--------

An interesting discussion - indeed.



It occurs to me this matter is related to the issue of who has the

responsibility for a person's health - is it the individual person, or has

the person unwinningly surrendered that responsibility to some member(s) of a

medical business.  In the case of minor children, in the past it was accepted

that parents held this responsibility.  However, it has also become obvious

in recent years that politicians are attempting at every turn to usurp not

only this responsibility, but all other individual responsibilities they can

con individuals out of.



Assuming people have retained (or perhaps reclaimed) the responsibility for

their own health, it occurs to me they would do well to determine for

themselves the truth about health matters.  This is not as difficult a matter

as it is made out to be.  For starters, serious students would do well to

refer to whatever scriptures they have confidence in, for here they will find

most of the basics they seek.  In this matter, those who profess no beliefs

in scriptures, will find themselves needlessly handicapped by their own self

imposed limits.



As a basic guideline for herbal education, serious students might consider

not giving advice to anyone, about things which they themselves have not

experienced.  If advice given is their own opinion they ought to say so.  If

they know a good source of the appropriate information they would do well to

pass along the name of the source.



Herbal substances in their most natural form appear to me to be the best

starting point for those seeking an herbal education.  The safest practical

source of herbal substances in my experience has been powdered herbal plant

capsules and tablets.  There are relatively few contraindications, warnings,

cautions or dangers connected with the use of powdered herbs, compared to the

mountains of documented problems, side effects, and real dangers associated

with the use of patent and prescription drugs.



The majority of problems known in the use of herbs come from the misuse of

herbal extracts.  Those people concerned with the dangers of using herbs, who

do not understand the difference between the powdered herb plants and

extracts derived from herbs, would do well to continue with their education

and experience until they have a valid basis for their opinions.   A part of

that education also includes experience with, and a working definition of the

two terms disease crisis, and healing crisis.



If herbal beginners do their home work by reading two or three basic herbals

concerning specific herbs' actions, properties, contraindications, and

combinations with other herbs, prior to taking any of the herbs - they will

have checked their herbal road maps, and will have a good idea of where they

are going.  If they are not willing to do their home work, and take

responsibility for their own actions, they shouldn't  be messing around with

herbs in the first palce.



As for myself, I would far rather take the responsibility of trusting the

herbs I've had experience with, as being a valid answer to my childrens'

health problems, than I would trust the choice of drugs and the opinions of a

medical professional whose living is made by "practicing medicine", and so

hasn't the slightest interest in herbal solutions to health problems.  I had

enough medicine practiced on me while I was growing up, that I wouldn't

willing subject children to such goings on, unless there was no other

alternative.



When it comes to judging a good herbal, I suggest a prerequisite is that an

herbal's advice about using herbs for all conditions, including children's

health problems - should be consistent with similar information from other

other good herbals.  That sounds like a play on words??  Not really - good

herbal information has been collected for thousands of years, and if

herbalists had been following some secret, mystical herbal agenda the whole

time, someone by now would have exposed the farce.  Also George Washington

gave a clue to those willing to read, when he said that truth is consistent,

and it wins out - when sufficient efforts are made to bring it to light.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: hello list

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:11:33 -0900

--------

At 01:00 PM 12/31/96 -0500, Hilton D. Clinton Jr wrote:

>Hello all,

>I am new to the list and hope i'm doin' this right.

>I'm wanting to know if anyone knows of a good (reliable,inexpensive)

>source of mail order herbs.  In particular, am lookin for supply of

>Turkey rhubarb root and sheep sorrel. Had used essiac recipe

>several years ago for spouse (spot on lung) with great succes.

>I had taken tea also as blood purifier, and would like to use again,

>if can obtain the ingredients easily......thanks.......

>

>HDC

>

>

TRy this source: R. Hartenthaler, 490 Lion Hope Road, Clayton, DL 19938.  I

believe a catalog is available for $1.00.  He sends nice fresh bulk herbs.

I hope he doesn't get inundated with this posting.  I need to send an order

soon and hope there's some herbs left.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: herbs for gout

From: "Nan Korman@Aol.Com" <NanKorman@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:36:17 -0500

--------

I have read that several herbs may be helpful in curtailing the recurrence,

or the severity of the attacks, of gout.  The herbs I read about were:

dandelion root, alfalfa, mugwort and celery seeds.  Dosage information was

lacking and, not having a lot of knowledge on this myself, I would appreciate

any advice.  Maybe other herbs are more effective?



The doctors prescribe anti-inflammatories and medicines that limit the uric

acid in the system.  Are there herbs that can do the same effectively?



Thanks for any suggestions!





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbs for gout

From: Thomas Cornick <BeeCrofter@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:50:28 -0500

--------

First and foremost with stones or gout  adequate intake of good clean water

most of us do not get enough water   so with gout or stones you have to all

but float





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Essiac Ingredients

From: Wayne Laurents <laurents@CRIS.COM>

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:06:04 -0500

--------

For Essiac ingredients, organically grown, or for the tea,try



Trout Lake Farms

40 Warner Road

Trout Lake WA 98650-9727



Phone: 509-395-2025

FAX  : 509-395-2645



I have no connection with Trout Lake, other than being a satisfied

customer.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Garlic lemonade?

From: Walter Semerenko <walter@ORLINTER.COM>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 13:09:48 +0000

--------

At 09:41 AM 1/1/97 EST, you wrote:



>Kim in VA

>Who has just finished making a quart of garlic lemonade sweetened with a

>touch of stevia for my young son's cold.  Mmmmmmm



Yum.  How do you make garlic lemonade?



Walter.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Garlic lemonade?

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 16:28:06 EST

--------

On Wed, 1 Jan 1997 13:09:48 +0000 Walter Semerenko <walter@ORLINTER.COM>

writes:



>

>Yum.  How do you make garlic lemonade?

>



Infuse a few cloves of chopped garlic in a quart of hot water and add the

juice of two fresh lemons. Add a little stevia to taste. Don't strain out

the garlic- just let it go down with the rest!  Hits the spot when you've

got the cold from the bad place....which hit last night but I'm already

almost over -my little guy is much perkier as well. ; )



Kim in VA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Garlic lemonade

From: JESUS FREAK <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:34:30 -0600

--------

Not sure how appealing it sounds...but I'm willing to give it a

try...what is stevia?



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Garlic lemonade

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 21:58:13 -0800

--------

At 11:55 PM 1/1/97 -0800, you wrote:

>JESUS FREAK wrote:

>>

>> Not sure how appealing it sounds...but I'm willing to give it a

>> try...what is stevia?

>>

>> Deana

>

>

> Dear Deana :

> Stevia rebaudiana Hems. L ( Eupatorium rebaudianum Bertoni ) is a plant

>deeply "edulcorant", soft laxative. It produces soft hypoglycemia also.

>Warning..it is not recommended to use it for a long time as it has

>antihormonal effects.

>                           Mariana

>

>hello:

Other name fot this type of Eupatorium is Caajee  or Caahee. if you take a

part of caajee and a part of mate is a good thing for diabetes. IS NOT TOXIC,

Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Garlic lemonade

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:40:01 -0900

--------

At 11:55 PM 1/1/97 -0800, Mariana Chapochnikoff wrote:

>JESUS FREAK wrote:

>>

>> Not sure how appealing it sounds...but I'm willing to give it a

>> try...what is stevia?

>>

>> Deana

>

>

> Dear Deana :

> Stevia rebaudiana Hems. L ( Eupatorium rebaudianum Bertoni ) is a plant

>deeply "edulcorant", soft laxative. It produces soft hypoglycemia also.

>Warning..it is not recommended to use it for a long time as it has

>antihormonal effects.

>                           Mariana

>

>

Soft hypoglycaemia?????  I've never heard this term before.  Perhaps an

explanation is in order???  This is interesting. Let's discuss.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Garlic lemonade

From: Mariana Chapochnikoff <mch@IMPSAT1.COM.AR>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:55:23 -0800

--------

JESUS FREAK wrote:

>

> Not sure how appealing it sounds...but I'm willing to give it a

> try...what is stevia?

>

> Deana





 Dear Deana :

 Stevia rebaudiana Hems. L ( Eupatorium rebaudianum Bertoni ) is a plant

deeply "edulcorant", soft laxative. It produces soft hypoglycemia also.

Warning..it is not recommended to use it for a long time as it has

antihormonal effects.

                           Mariana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Bad things about stevia? (Was Re: Garlic lemonade)

From: Michael Redman <mredman@BVOICE.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:09:00 +0000

--------

Mariana Chapochnikoff wrote:



>  Stevia rebaudiana Hems. L ( Eupatorium rebaudianum Bertoni ) is a plant

> deeply "edulcorant", soft laxative. It produces soft hypoglycemia also.

> Warning..it is not recommended to use it for a long time as it has

> antihormonal effects.

>



First bad thing I've heard about stevia. I am considering using it for

its non-glycemic sweetening qualities.



Tell me more.



--Michael





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Bad things about stevia? (Was Re: Garlic lemonade)

From: Stacey Kubyn <SGKESQ@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:46:17 -0500

--------

(Perk!)  Sorry I missed the post on bad aspects.  Please is there some

reference material on this point?  Many thanks.



-stacey kubyn





In a message dated 97-01-02 04:35:49 EST, you write:



<< Mariana Chapochnikoff wrote:



 >  Stevia rebaudiana Hems. L ( Eupatorium rebaudianum Bertoni ) is a plant

 > deeply "edulcorant", soft laxative. It produces soft hypoglycemia also.

 > Warning..it is not recommended to use it for a long time as it has

 > antihormonal effects.

 >



 First bad thing I've heard about stevia. I am considering using it for

 its non-glycemic sweetening qualities.



 Tell me more.



 --Michael >>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Bad things about stevia? (Was Re: Garlic lemonade)

From: Michael Redman <mredman@BVOICE.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:51:42 +0000

--------

Stacey Kubyn wrote:

>

> (Perk!)  Sorry I missed the post on bad aspects.  Please is there some

> reference material on this point?  Many thanks.





"Soft laxative" "Soft Hypoglycemia" and "Antihormonal" may not be _evil_

aspects, but if stevia is used as a sugar substitute rather than a

medicinal herb and those effects are real, the side effects are

certainly something to think about. More info please.



The following that you quoted was the post on the aspects that concerned

me.



--Michael





>

> In a message dated 97-01-02 04:35:49 EST, you write:

>

> << Mariana Chapochnikoff wrote:

>

>  >  Stevia rebaudiana Hems. L ( Eupatorium rebaudianum Bertoni ) is a plant

>  > deeply "edulcorant", soft laxative. It produces soft hypoglycemia also.

>  > Warning..it is not recommended to use it for a long time as it has

>  > antihormonal effects.

>  >

>

>  First bad thing I've heard about stevia. I am considering using it for

>  its non-glycemic sweetening qualities.

>

>  Tell me more.

>

>  --Michael >>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Bad things about stevia? (Was Re: Garlic lemonade)

From: Mark Gold <mgold@MAX.TIAC.NET>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:10:02 -0500

--------

>Date:         Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:51:42 +0000

>From:         Michael Redman <mredman@BVOICE.COM>

>Subject:      Re: Bad things about stevia? (Was Re: Garlic lemonade)

>To:           HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR



>"Soft laxative" "Soft Hypoglycemia" and "Antihormonal" may not be _evil_

>aspects, but if stevia is used as a sugar substitute rather than a

>medicinal herb and those effects are real, the side effects are

>certainly something to think about. More info please.



Michael,



I have never seen any of those things mentioned in recent scientific

research or reviews.  In addition, I have not heard of those effects

(or other adverse effects) being reported.  In the past, there were

some unsubstantiated rumors about stevia, including that it had

contraceptive effects.



Preliminary research has shown that stevia may help reduce

hyperglycemia, but that hypoglycemic effect was limited to cases of

hyperglycemia and not cases with normal blood sugar levels.



I do believe that stevia or any sweetener (e.g., barley malt,

evaporated cane juice, etc.) should not be used in large amounts.



Best Wishes,

                             - Mark

                          mgold@tiac.net

             http://www.tiac.net/users/mgold/health.html

           http://www.tiac.net/users/mgold/sweet/sweet.html

                     No Web Access? Email Me





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Dandelion recipes/Bull...

From: Daniela Lowe <danlowe@OVERNET.COM.AR>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:15:47 -0300

--------

Hi Anette, and the whole list!

As I have been with problems with my mails I would like to know if you have

received this one. 

Excuse me if you did.

HAPPY NEW YEAR FOR EVERYBODY



>My aunt makes a dandelion greens salad (delicious) and dandelion wine

>(yummy).  Unfortunately, I don't know the recipes but they probably could be

>found in a cookbook at the library.

>Annette

>

 Hi Anette, Merry Christmas, and for all of you too!

Hope your wishes come true!

Thanks for your suggestion, but if you ever go to your aunts ask her for the

salad recipe?



Now a new subject, as I have also bull thristle, I wonder if this is a

neetle or not and if it has herbal applications.Any suggestions?



By the way I wanted to let you know that by reading all the info that comes

and goes, I am learning quite a lot.

So Thank You.



Have a nice Weekend and Happy new year!!!

Danielita

Buenos Aires



AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE EST.   @-;-'---,'--- 







       





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Analgesic Liniment

From: Barbara Radcliff <rick.cutler@RSCS.NET>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:58:31 -0500

--------

     Anyone have recipes for analgesic liniments?  I have one on Yarrow and

some others but I would appreciate any other suggestions.



Yarrow Liniment



Ingredients:



Extracted in a base medium of warm olive oil; whole flowering tops of the

following fresh plants:Comfrey (Symphytum officinalis), Burdock (Arctium

Lappa), Yarrow (Achillea Millifolium), St.Johnswort (Hypericum perforatum),

Red Clover (Trifolium Pratense). Fresh Wild-harvested root of Dandelion

(Taraxicum dens lionus), Yellowdock (Rumex crispus), Goldenseal (Hydrastis

canadensis), and native Balm of Gilead resin (Populus tacamahaca). Pure

Essential oil of Rosemary

(Rosmarinus officinalis). Beeswax.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Analgesic Liniment

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 21:34:04 +0000

--------

> Ingredients:

   <snip>

> Fresh Wild-harvested root of Dandelion

> (Taraxicum dens lionus), Yellowdock (Rumex crispus),

>Goldenseal (Hydrastis canadensis),  <snip>

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^





Let's start replacing that wild goldenseal with either farm grown,

or a substitute herb (Oregon Grape or Barberry, for example).



This sounds like a good liniment, that would work for many things.

But lets gets more specific. Are we talking muscle pain? In that case

I'd skip alot of it add an external muscle relaxant like

Lobelia. OK I'll whip one up:



Extract into oil:



Lobelia

St. John's Wort

Comfrey Leaf

Lavender Oil to scent

and some arnica to potentiate the whole thing.



Great for muscular pains, sprains, strains.



Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



Wildcrafting is Stewardship





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fungus treatment

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:33:49 -0800

--------

>

>Richard, as I have troubles with fungus too, I was very interested in your

>fungi treatment, just would like to know what canola oil is. May be you know

>the name in spanish.



>>here's one formula that's used in the northwest

>>in one gallon of water mix

>>1 tablespoon white vinegar

>>1 tablespoon canola oil

>>1 1/2 tablespoon baking soda

>>spray all leaf surfaces. i would test it first on a small sample.

>>

canola is the 'new' name for rapeseed oil. unfortunatley i can't find the

scientific name

for rapeseed. if you can't find rapeseed oil try using another

monounsaturated oil. another

oil to try would be horticulture oil. experiment.



richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fungus treatment

From: Karen Rhoda <Itype@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:41:49 -0500

--------

Sorry to come in on this thread so late. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. The

best fungus treatment I have found is straight Tea Tree Oil applied to the

area three times a day.



Hope this helps.



Karen





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: thanks and opinions wanted

From: "Hilton D. Clinton Jr" <Yahu72@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:53:50 -0500

--------

Hey all,

I just wanted to thank all who responded to my last post

with info on supply sources of Essiac ingedients....mucho helpful



now, i'd like to ask for some opinions from list members on the

medicinal usage of marijuana......it seems like it's all over the news

these days, what with the new laws passed in CA and ARIZ.

its kind of a political football....seems like those in the medical

profession are either for it or against it, with no middle ground.

anyway what do you all think ?



HDC





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Bruce Mencer <BMencer@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:40:20 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-02 01:55:49 EST, you write:



<< now, i'd like to ask for some opinions from list members on the

 medicinal usage of marijuana.... >>



I personally am of the belief that ANYTHING that will cause relief without

harm for anyone who is suffering, should be allowed.  If there is a benefit

to using marujuana that outweighs any long term negative effects, I am in

favor of it.



Bruce





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: "Theresa J. McGarry" <tjm-a@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:41:24 -0600

--------

>In a message dated 97-01-02 01:55:49 EST, you write:

>

><< now, i'd like to ask for some opinions from list members on the

> medicinal usage of marijuana.... >>

>

>I personally am of the belief that ANYTHING that will cause relief without

>harm for anyone who is suffering, should be allowed.  If there is a benefit

>to using marujuana that outweighs any long term negative effects, I am in

>favor of it.

>

>Bruce

*******************



My husband was diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma in October

and has been undergoing the CHOP regimen of chemotherapy (his choice),

and due to the toxicity of the chemicals involved, he had to have a

vena cava catheter implanted.  Within a week of the surgery, and

less than a week after his first chemotherapy session, he was in the

hospital with a 103 degree temperature.  Needless to say, during all

of this, he has been taking massive pain medication doses, all kinds

of anti-nausea, and antibiotics, all the pharmaceuticals that the allopathic

system has seen fit to throw at him.  They removed the first catheter,

and let him heal less than a week before they put a new one in, and

second chemotherapy the next day (the Wednesday before Thanksgiving).

It has become infected as well, but thankfully, not a staph infection like

the first one.  He takes a variety of anti-nausea medications still, as

you may imagine, and with the help of kind-hearted friends (because

-I- had no idea), he has also had marijuana, which helps him when

nothing else can because he lost 20 pounds in three weeks of being

diagnosed and it really is not a good thing to lose weight during

chemotherapy, trust me.  Your body needs all the help it can muster

to fight this particular type of curing of cancer, and healthy foods,

if you can keep them down, help immensely, but just the natural

energy from food itself will also help.



Personally, I would do -anything- for him that would ease his

pain at all.  I would rather do it holistically, but I will support

and help him however he decides to get well again.  Marijuana

is simply one of the tools that can help, in my opinion, and if

it helps ease pain or discomfort or lack of appetite, then my

suggestion is to use it.



Theresa





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: "Kathryn M. Bensinger" <kbensin@MAIL.STATE.TN.US>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:37:28 PST

--------

Like any other medicinal herb, marijana has it's uses and place in

medicine.  This one, unfortunately, has been "muddied up" by politics

complicated by wide spread abuse.  Unless human nature takes a sudden

improvement over past history, it will be several more generations

before the necessary balance is achieved to make "pot" acceptable as

medicine to the masses.

-------------------------------------

E-mail: kbensin@mail.state.tn.us

Date: 1/4/97

Time: 11:37:28 AM



This message was sent by Chameleon

-------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: "M. Pacord" <Mpacord@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:37:35 -0500

--------

Frankly, there are a number of physicians (me being one of them), who feel

that the Federal government has overstepped its bounds, and is dictating the

practice of medicine within a state's own borders.  The attack on medical

marijuana continues what it has always been.... an ill-conceived, frantic,

untruthful battle to protect the status quo, preserve insane budgets, and

exert control over someone who knows more than you do.  I have joined NORML

(www.norml.org), and will fight to reverse the policies of General McCaffrey,

who feels that HE is wiser than the collective voters of California and

Arizona.  The war on drugs has already been lost, we just need to gather in

the stragglers who don't know any better.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: "V. Suzanne Drake" <tanager@CRL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:57:54 -0800

--------

Dear M.



I agree with 100%.  But, think of all the high paying jobs that will be

lost if this "drug" is legal.  All of the marijuana sniffing agents

here in the "wilds" of northern California, the border patrol etc.

There is so much money involved in the illegality of marijuana that it

will take a long fight to change things.  I'll check out NORML.

Good luck.  Suzanne



On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, M. Pacord wrote:



> Frankly, there are a number of physicians (me being one of them), who feel

> that the Federal government has overstepped its bounds, and is dictating the

> practice of medicine within a state's own borders.  The attack on medical

> marijuana continues what it has always been.... an ill-conceived, frantic,

> untruthful battle to protect the status quo, preserve insane budgets, and

> exert control over someone who knows more than you do.  I have joined NORML

> (www.norml.org), and will fight to reverse the policies of General McCaffrey,

> who feels that HE is wiser than the collective voters of California and

> Arizona.  The war on drugs has already been lost, we just need to gather in

> the stragglers who don't know any better.

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Patricia Brown <Pbrown1225@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:34:48 -0500

--------

Suzanne wrote:

>  I agree with 100%.  But, think of all the high paying jobs that will be

>  lost if this "drug" is legal.  All of the marijuana sniffing agents

>  here in the "wilds" of northern California, the border patrol etc.

>  There is so much money involved in the illegality of marijuana that it

>  will take a long fight to change things.



Then maybe those same people who are employed to rid this country of

marijuana

could concentrate on the other drugs ie cocaine, heroin, lsd, etc.  In my

opinion, that's where the main focus should be anyhow.

pat b.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:52:00 -0900

--------

At 06:57 PM 1/5/97 -0800, V. Suzanne Drake wrote:

>Dear M.

>

>I agree with 100%.  But, think of all the high paying jobs that will be

>lost if this "drug" is legal.  All of the marijuana sniffing agents

>here in the "wilds" of northern California, the border patrol etc.

>There is so much money involved in the illegality of marijuana that it

>will take a long fight to change things.  I'll check out NORML.

>Good luck.  Suzanne

>

>On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, M. Pacord wrote:

>

>> Frankly, there are a number of physicians (me being one of them), who feel

>> that the Federal government has overstepped its bounds, and is dictating the

>> practice of medicine within a state's own borders.  The attack on medical

>> marijuana continues what it has always been.... an ill-conceived, frantic,

>> untruthful battle to protect the status quo, preserve insane budgets, and

>> exert control over someone who knows more than you do.  I have joined NORML

>> (www.norml.org), and will fight to reverse the policies of General McCaffrey,

>> who feels that HE is wiser than the collective voters of California and

>> Arizona.  The war on drugs has already been lost, we just need to gather in

>> the stragglers who don't know any better.

>>

>

>

While I am not totally against using Cannabis or Poppies or any other herb

for medicinal use, I feel that adequate control is essential.  I do not for

a minute believe it is safe for recreational use.  The terms "recreational"

and "drugs" should never be used in the same sentence.  I feel the same in

regard to alcohol use.  It should not be used recreationally.  I've never

seen a truly happy drunk.  My concern with legalizing Cannabis for medicinal

use is that it would send the message that this is OK to use for fun too.

There is already a problem with illegal use of amphetamines and opiates and

other drugs.  The use of Cannabis is already  in place as an illegal drug

and is widely abused.  What will happen if it is allowed to be grown

commercially?

  There's lots of questions and few simple answers.  It is NOT completely

safe for use.  It has side effects like any other drug in this category.

Perhaps it should be studied and made available for persons suffering.  But

what will be the effects of legalizing it for medicinal use.  Will it

increase illegal use?

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: John A <amphlett@INREACH.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:52:52 +0000

--------

We already condone the manufacture and sale of alcohol (a poison)

and tobacco products, which are poisons.



Marijuana is harmful to the lungs but why then is it singled out from

the other two big legal deadly drugs mentioned in my first sentence?



Purely and simply:



economics.



the alcohol and tobacco industries have quite a source of income to

protect through the politicians they purchase.



most politicos are lawyers. lawyers make the laws. lawyers make laws

which appeal to their own self interests. legaleeze is a cover for

ripping the common person off. lawyers appear to be fighting against

each other in court, but they end up at the same alumni association

parties.  they laugh together at the bank!

are there federal grants for law schools?



john a





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Douglas A Moller <damoller@ODIN.THOR.NET>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 05:54:22 -0800

--------

John A wrote:

>

> We already condone the manufacture and sale of alcohol (a poison)

> and tobacco products, which are poisons.

>

> Marijuana is harmful to the lungs but why then is it singled out from

> the other two big legal deadly drugs mentioned in my first sentence?

>

> Purely and simply:

>

> economics.

>

> the alcohol and tobacco industries have quite a source of income to

> protect through the politicians they purchase.

>

> most politicos are lawyers. lawyers make the laws. lawyers make laws

> which appeal to their own self interests. legaleeze is a cover for

> ripping the common person off. lawyers appear to be fighting against

> each other in court, but they end up at the same alumni association

> parties.  they laugh together at the bank!

> are there federal grants for law schools?

>

> john a

everything is poison, everthing has a different level of toxisity.

Smoking anything is not good but that is each persons choice.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Thomas Cornick <BeeCrofter@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:07:38 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-06 20:52:16 EST, you write:



<<

 other drugs.  The use of Cannabis is already  in place as an illegal drug

 and is widely abused.  What will happen if it is allowed to be grown

 commercially? >>

The question that is overlooked is should drug abuse be a problem to be

addressed by a lawyer or by a physician.

Personally I feel we would accomplish more if the drug issue was treated as a

health problem.

Of course the legal system and prison industry will most likely disagree .

.

Of course their jobs would be downsized inf this happened.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:49:47 -0900

--------

At 12:07 AM 1/7/97 -0500, Thomas Cornick wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-06 20:52:16 EST, you write:

>

><<

> other drugs.  The use of Cannabis is already  in place as an illegal drug

> and is widely abused.  What will happen if it is allowed to be grown

> commercially? >>

>The question that is overlooked is should drug abuse be a problem to be

>addressed by a lawyer or by a physician.

>Personally I feel we would accomplish more if the drug issue was treated as a

>health problem.

>Of course the legal system and prison industry will most likely disagree .

>.

>Of course their jobs would be downsized inf this happened.

>

>

most people I know who abuse Pot would not think they have any sort of

health problem.  I personally would not like to be on a highway with pot

smoking drivers any more than I would drunk drivers.  This is an example of

when it becomes a legal rather than a health issue.  When you endanger the

lives of other innocent people, you should be punished.  As I have seen

changes in the attitude towards criminals as poor picked on persons rather

than law breakers there suddenly seems to be more of them and they are less

and less repentant about their crimes.  AS we have looked the other way,

crime has become more of a problem.

  As this relates to the Cannabis issue, there are two aspects to its use.

One is as a medicinal herb the other is an abused drug.  The first is a

health issue, the second is a legal issue.

  You can eat sour grapes all day long about who has jobs trying to police

illegal pot use but it has little relation to the immorality issue of

breaking the law in the first place.  Teach you children to honor and obey

the law.  Then you won't have to worry about who's got the job to throw them

in jail.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:49:55 -0900

--------

At 12:52 AM 1/7/97 +0000, John A wrote:

>We already condone the manufacture and sale of alcohol (a poison)

>and tobacco products, which are poisons.

>

>Marijuana is harmful to the lungs but why then is it singled out from

>the other two big legal deadly drugs mentioned in my first sentence?

>

>Purely and simply:

>

>economics.

>

>the alcohol and tobacco industries have quite a source of income to

>protect through the politicians they purchase.

>

>most politicos are lawyers. lawyers make the laws. lawyers make laws

>which appeal to their own self interests. legaleeze is a cover for

>ripping the common person off. lawyers appear to be fighting against

>each other in court, but they end up at the same alumni association

>parties.  they laugh together at the bank!

>are there federal grants for law schools?

>

>john a

>

>

I fail to see how legalizing a potentially harmful if abused substance will

help anything.  Comparing it to other abused substances is just smoke and

mirrors. Grousing about politics is not addressing the problem of the

substance itself.

  Marijuana causes hormone problems particularly in males (breast

enlargement and sterility).  It can be psycologically if not physically

addictive.  The problems with smoking it have already been stated along with

the ingestion of carbon monoxide which has obvious problems.  Frequent users

become paranoid, lazy and unmotivated.  They begin to have problems with

memory loss and often stutter.

  These are the problems that come to mind immediately.  There may be

others.  So this is what you say we should condone as a "recreational drug"!

NO WAY!!  I've seen more than one person waste their whole lives away

because of this abused herb.  Maybe it has some medicinal uses but it should

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be turned loose as OK to sport with.  IT IS NOT SAFE.....

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: John A <amphlett@INREACH.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:25:45 +0000

--------

Anita Hales wrote:

>

> At 12:52 AM 1/7/97 +0000, John A wrote:

> >We already condone the manufacture and sale of alcohol (a poison)

> >and tobacco products, which are poisons.

> >

> >Marijuana is harmful to the lungs but why then is it singled out from

> >the other two big legal deadly drugs mentioned in my first sentence?

> >

> >Purely and simply:

> >

> >economics.

> >

> >the alcohol and tobacco industries have quite a source of income to

> >protect through the politicians they purchase.

> >

> >most politicos are lawyers. lawyers make the laws. lawyers make laws

> >which appeal to their own self interests. legaleeze is a cover for

> >ripping the common person off. lawyers appear to be fighting against

> >each other in court, but they end up at the same alumni association

> >parties.  they laugh together at the bank!

> >are there federal grants for law schools?

> >

> >john a

> >

> >

> I fail to see how legalizing a potentially harmful if abused substance will

> help anything.  Comparing it to other abused substances is just smoke and

> mirrors. Grousing about politics is not addressing the problem of the

> substance itself.

>   Marijuana causes hormone problems particularly in males (breast

> enlargement and sterility).  It can be psycologically if not physically

> addictive.  The problems with smoking it have already been stated along with

> the ingestion of carbon monoxide which has obvious problems.  Frequent users

> become paranoid, lazy and unmotivated.  They begin to have problems with

> memory loss and often stutter.

>   These are the problems that come to mind immediately.  There may be

> others.  So this is what you say we should condone as a "recreational drug"!

> NO WAY!!  I've seen more than one person waste their whole lives away

> because of this abused herb.  Maybe it has some medicinal uses but it should

> NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be turned loose as OK to sport with.  IT IS NOT SAFE.....

> **************************************************************

> *            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

> **************************************************************

> *Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

> **************************************************************

Anita:



Let's just assume that everything you say is true about the drug pot.

It may be.  I don't know.

But I DO know that alcohol and tobacco create just as many if not more

problems for the people who abuse them and yet they are freely sold each

and every minute of every day.....



That is my point....the hypocrisy....not the dangers of pot.



By the way, you better stop breathing...did you know that the air is

dirty?  tee hee hee....



and if that doesn't kill you, the clock will......guaranteed.



We should outlaw time...it will kill us all!!!



john a





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: "M. Pacord" <Mpacord@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:49:31 -0500

--------

You are correct in what you say.  even the medical use of cannabis is not

without risk.  However, the message I see sent is that the government, by

using untrue arguments, has told the young people that the true power in this

country lies with those in power at the time, and not the people who LIVE in

the country. It also says that the truth is immaterial, in terms of the

medical use of any medication, and that that doctors cannot judge what is

best for their patients.  I realize that the majority of people are not fond

of physicians, but the truth is that society has spent one HELL of a lot of

money, in helping me and other physicians learn to make judgement calls, and

no one is even SUGGESTING that the unrestricted use of any medication is

desirable.  No physician I know would even suggest that making Valium (or

morphine, or Demerol, or Prozac, or Fen-Phen, or alcohol, or tobacco ) legal

for adults sends the message that it should be available to anyone except

those for whom it is intended.  I fully agree that the regulations need to be

tightened up, and that significant restrictions and penalties need to be

instituted, and enforced.  But the approach taken by the White House

(Remember for whom General McCafrey works) is that of not even being willing

to discuss what is and is not true.  Let's not forget that one Surgeon

General resigned at least in part because she suggested that we SHOULD TALK

about the issue of the insane laws dealing with cannabis.  While it would be

convenient to blame this on the conservatives in Congress, even Mr. Gingrich,

in a letter in the Journal of the Americam Medical Assn., encouraged the

government ot make cannabis legal for the medical conditions for which it has

been used for at least the past three or four thousand years.

Another major isuue unaddressed is that of benefit vs risk, which is what the

use of medications is all about.  Cannabis, used medically, is far safer than

aspirin, in terms of the therapeutic versus the lethal dose.  There has NEVER

been a single death attributed to cannabis, and most of the myths we repeat

concerning it are just that--myths.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:02:03 -0900

--------

**

>Anita:

>

>Let's just assume that everything you say is true about the drug pot.

>It may be.  I don't know.



I am a "child of the 60's".  I was there when all this stuff really started

to take off.  The things I say are not only supported by research but I have

SEEN it myself.  I know well the long term effects of marijuana abuse.  I

can put names to it.



>But I DO know that alcohol and tobacco create just as many if not more

>problems for the people who abuse them and yet they are freely sold each

>and every minute of every day.....

>

>That is my point....the hypocrisy....not the dangers of pot.



Yes, there is hypocrisy.  I hate it too.  However, caving in to pressure to

make Cannabis legal for everyday use, even if it does not change some

things, will bring about a whole slew of new societal problems.  Why gain a

tradition of drug abuse with this or other hallucinogens when we have such a

problem with the drugs (e.g. alcohol and tobacco) that we now allow.  The

current legislation to supposedly make medicinal use of marijuana legal may

be nothing more than a first step for the pot-heads to make their habit

legal.  I understand that one of the issues voted on included heroin and LSD

for "medicinal use".  Hah! How dumb do you think we are?  Our society does

NOT need this type of tradition at all.  We may end up with a similar

problem to the Netherlands (I think that's the one) where drug addicts were

given drugs by the government and now the government can no longer afford

the problem they have created.



>

>By the way, you better stop breathing...did you know that the air is

>dirty?  tee hee hee....



Not here in my corner of Alaska.  We have the best breathing air anywhere in

the world.  Come on up and take a whiff.  It's the best high in the world.



>

>and if that doesn't kill you, the clock will......guaranteed.

>

>We should outlaw time...it will kill us all!!!



You've got a point there.  Maybe we should petition congress.



>

>john a

>

>

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:02:12 -0900

--------

>Another major isuue unaddressed is that of benefit vs risk, which is what the

>use of medications is all about.  Cannabis, used medically, is far safer than

>aspirin, in terms of the therapeutic versus the lethal dose.  There has NEVER

>been a single death attributed to cannabis, and most of the myths we repeat

>concerning it are just that--myths.

>

>

The politics are mind boggling and lies abound.  One finds it difficult to

believe anything the press prints too.  I doubt it will ever be simple.  We

may never find out the motivation behind the push for legalization of

Cannabis for medicinal use.  Alaska had a legal pot law for a few years but

found it created all kinds of problems.  So the law was repealed.  However,

it was for general use not restricted to medicinal use.  It might have made

a difference.

  If it is to be legalized for medicine, it must be standardized so doctors

can prescibe accurately. I don't think this issue has been addressed

properly.  Potency of Cannibis varies greatly depending of various factors

and some strains are very potent.  It would be good to seek for strains that

are high in the medicinal qualities desired and low in the hallucinogenic

area.  It's hallucinogenic properties make it a difficult drug to prescribe.

   Maybe the drug is not directly deadly but I surely would not want to be

in an airplane piloted by a marijuana impaired pilot or on a freeway full of

marijuana impaired drivers.  A truck full of deadly chemicals can kill you

real nice.  You didn't mention specific "myths" so I can't say what you mean

by your last statement.  I won't even get into the political junk.  It makes

me mad.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: "M. Pacord" <Mpacord@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:49:38 -0500

--------

I think your approach is a wise one.  There is nothing medical that scares

me, as a physician, about cannabis.  However, the politics, as with you, make

me mad.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Paul & Kathy Sedler <smeherbs@MAKO.COM>

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:00:38 -0800

--------

On another thread I believe it was mentioned about other drugs being

legalized as well.  I wanted to just add my two cents here.  I have a

relative who takes cannabis (legally) for lack of appetite due to AIDS, some

people I know with cancer who have a lack of appetite from treatments take

it as well.  I do not intend to make any judgements here for those people.

It has worked for them, although I personally would not wish to try it.  I

also have another relative who has spent many months in jail from it's daily

recreational use.



My point is, with the thread about legalizing any known mind-altering

substance ( and I wish to include some powerful pharmaceuticals here)  in

looking at the core of the issue.  IMHO, does this not have to do with a

society that wishes to escape from the stress and self imposed chaos?  To

find external substances, be they plants or chemically engineered

substances, which will help them "cope".  Seems to me that it reflects the

state of our emotional/spiritual dis-ease which some companies/individuals

are more than willing to capitalize on.



Granted some powerful plants have been used for centuries in spiritual

quest, but in the use of those plants it was understood that the plant was

revered for it's abilities and used only for very specific

instances/circumstances.  Not to  possibly escape from daily inner turmoils.

They are/were referred to as Sacred Medicine.  Taken from the Earth and

prepared in a very specific way. Seems to me, IMHO, we have lost touch in

many cases, with the uses of some of our plant allies.



I don't want to start any flame wars here, so please email me privately for

responses.  :)



Kathy McQuade-Sedler



Sedler's Mother Earth Herbs - 5272-A West Gold Ct., Beale AFB, CA  95903

916-788-0138 ***** email SMEHerbs@mako.com

FAX 916-788-0849 (not dedicated line)

(All appropriate disclaimers apply.)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: "Yolanda@worldaccess.nl" <yolanda@WORLDACCESS.NL>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:26:31 +1

--------

On  Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:02:03 -0900

Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET> wrote

> I am a "child of the 60's".  I was there when all this stuff really started

> to take off.  The things I say are not only supported by research but I have

> SEEN it myself.  I know well the long term effects of marijuana abuse.  I

> can put names to it.



Anita, seems to me you are talking about abuse, not about just the use of cannabis

or marijuana. I was a teenager in the 60's growing up in USA,

Australia and Europe and most of my friends used it but they all

finished  college or university and have well

paying jobs, none of them got hooked on it nor on any other stronger

drugs.



But I think you are confusing medical use with drug abuse as well.

Some eye problems like glaucoma can be helped, if not cured by using cannabis.

Using the leaves in a soothing tea has been a habit for some nations for thousands of

years.

Grown near a potatoe plot it stimulates the growth of the potatoes.



Yolanda

http://www.worldaccess.nl/~yolanda

In hun winterrust kijken de vlieren telkens eens naar elkander (Basho)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: thanks and opinions wanted

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:54:31 -0900

--------

>But I think you are confusing medical use with drug abuse as well.

>Some eye problems like glaucoma can be helped, if not cured by using cannabis.

>Using the leaves in a soothing tea has been a habit for some nations for

thousands of

>years.

>Grown near a potatoe plot it stimulates the growth of the potatoes.

>

>Yolanda

>http://www.worldaccess.nl/~yolanda

>In hun winterrust kijken de vlieren telkens eens naar elkander (Basho)

>

>

Sigh, I was trying not to confuse the two.  The comments you quoted do refer

to abuse.  I thought other comments I have made indicated a difference

between medical and abusive use of the plant.  It's so difficult to converse

with several hundred people at the same time.  you never know where to come

from.

  My problem with the recent attempts to legalize Cannabis for medical use

is not the medical use but the possibility of opening a can of worms

considering the attitude towards this herb by many.  Some will see the

legislation as a door open for abuse of the drug.  I don't know how to get

around it.  I also question the motives of some of the legislation.  Why was

LSD and heroin included in the ballot measure?  While some may argue that

those things may be used medicinally there are certainly safer alternatives

that do just as well or better and do not have the dangerous side effects.

  Throwing out comparisons to use of tobacco and alcohol is not a true

reason to legalize the drug.  The situations are entirely different and

should be handled differently.  I am not against the legalization of

Cannabis for medicinal use.  I am against its abuse.  It is not without side

effects and should be monitored.

  BTW, is your sig. Dutch, Scandinavian?  What does it mean?  Just curios.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Problems with Listserv (was Re: "digested form")

From: turgut kalfaoglu <turgut@TK-OS2.EGE.EDU.TR>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:51:39 +0200

--------

On Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:49:54 -0600, John Pastore wrote:

>On 28 Dec 96 at 8:15, Frank Burns wrote:

> >Anyone else getting the digested form of this list, getting

>> >a slew of digests per day now? I got over 10 just for Dec

>> >27th, most of which had only a message or two.



We had a problem with the server -- first its definition in the network

tables was wrong (maintained by Listserv's creator, Eric Thomas) causing

it to be considered 'the' server for Europe (although we are the busiest

server in Europe, there are a whole bunch of other Listserv's in Europe

that help out), then network definition caused it to be considered to have

the fastest links in Europe; we currently have a 256KB link to Europe;

soon to be 512K, but we are nowhere the fastest :) So, we ended up with

all the distribution jobs, even lists in Sweden were using us to

distribute their mail to people in France ;) We had over 50 thousand

messages waiting at one point. Now the situation is corrected, and we are

back in business. Sorry for the lack of mail for a long time, and then

having the 'dam burst' afterwards.. -turgut



------------------------

turgut@vm.ege.edu.tr

http://www.egenet.com.tr

http://www.bbs.tr





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Selenium in plants

From: "Yolanda@worldaccess.nl" <yolanda@WORLDACCESS.NL>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:03:53 +1

--------

On  Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:46:45 +0100 I send this question,

which was rejected by the listserver because I had changed my mailing program and the

new program adds pop3 to my adress. I hope I have overcome the

problem now.



> Hi everybody,

> In the answer to the dandelion question I read the contents of

> minerals and was pleased to see it mentioned a little Selenium.

> In my country -the Netherlands- the soil lacks Selenium and

> doctors think this might be the cause of some diseases.  (The soil

> also lacks Jodium and for a long time this was added to bread and

> salt)

> I usual eat food grown organically in my own region, lately we have

> been eating a little more imported organically grown vegetables as well.

> I wonder if anyone knows vegetables which contain more

> Selenium?  Over here It is not mentioned in tables  where the mineral

> contents are shown.

> Yolanda van Nieuwkoop

> Wishing you happy holidays and all the best in 1997

--

***************************************

Yolanda@worldaccess.nl

http://www.worldaccess.nl/~yolanda

http://huizen.dds.nl/~yoli/tuinen.htm

***************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:21:09 -0900

--------

At 12:03 PM 1/2/97 +1, Yolanda@worldaccess.nl wrote:

>On  Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:46:45 +0100 I send this question,

>which was rejected by the listserver because I had changed my mailing

program and the

>new program adds pop3 to my adress. I hope I have overcome the

>problem now.

>

>> Hi everybody,

>> In the answer to the dandelion question I read the contents of

>> minerals and was pleased to see it mentioned a little Selenium.

>> In my country -the Netherlands- the soil lacks Selenium and

>> doctors think this might be the cause of some diseases.  (The soil

>> also lacks Jodium and for a long time this was added to bread and

>> salt)

>> I usual eat food grown organically in my own region, lately we have

>> been eating a little more imported organically grown vegetables as well.

>> I wonder if anyone knows vegetables which contain more

>> Selenium?  Over here It is not mentioned in tables  where the mineral

>> contents are shown.

>> Yolanda van Nieuwkoop

>> Wishing you happy holidays and all the best in 1997

>--

>***************************************

>Yolanda@worldaccess.nl

>http://www.worldaccess.nl/~yolanda

>http://huizen.dds.nl/~yoli/tuinen.htm

>***************************************

>

>

A problem here as I see it is that if the soil has no selenium, how can the

plants get it?  I would say that selenium supplementation would be a good

idea regardless of which plants you eat in selenium depleted soils.  I

personally think that supplementation with ocean or Great Salt Lake or Dead

Sea minerals would be excellent for anybody.  Modern practice of using

nitrogen to increase plant yields in agriculture has led to a worldwide

problem of mineral depleted soils.  Farmers would be better off feeding the

soils minerals rather than nitrogen.  Maybe it's getting better than it was

years ago but I feel the problem remains.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:18:12 +0000

--------

Netters,



And yet in some cases selenium content in soils can be so high as to

cause the plants to become toxic. This generally occurs in desert

areas, so it need not concern the mountain wildcrafter.  Selenium

from soils have poisoned both humans and livestock. Some plants

concentrate selenium, and become more poisonous than the other plants

around them. Fortunately for folks wildcrafting around here,  the

soils in the Pacific Northwest are low in this mineral.



 General Custer, on his way to Little

Bighorn, rode on horses that grazed on  native forages due to a

shortage of army hay. A selenium accumulator,  Astragalus bisculatus,

was in its succulent stage at that time of year, and Custer was

travelling through possibly toxic areas. If the horses ate this

plant, they would have become ill.  Sitting Bull's horses came from

outside the selenium toxicity area. Perhaps this affected the outcome

of that day's events. For more information about selenium

accumulators, see Kirk's Wild Edible Plants  or a basic soils

textbook.





Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



Wildcrafting is Stewardship





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 03:10:05 -0500

--------

There is an interesting compound called montmorillonite which has solved many

mineral depletion problems.  It has been sold under a number of names, and it

has the joking nick name of "The periodic table in a bottle", among a few of

the nutritionally oriented groups in the world.  What makes it an interesting

substance is that all living things benefit from its properties - plants -

animals - humans.



Chemical analyses over the years all agree that most samples of

montmorillonite usually contain over 70 different minerals -  including

selenium.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: Marianne Lepa <mlepa@IOSPHERE.NET>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:13:11 -0500

--------

Hi list,



Chuck wrote:

>There is an interesting compound called montmorillonite which has solved many

>mineral depletion problems.  It has been sold under a number of names, and it

>has the joking nick name of "The periodic table in a bottle", among a few of

>the nutritionally oriented groups in the world.  What makes it an interesting

>substance is that all living things benefit from its properties - plants -

>animals - humans.



Chuck, I'm not sure what you mean by 'compound', is this naturally occuring

or is it manufactured? Would an organic grower be able to use this to

provide trace elements to needy soils?



Marianne





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: "Yolanda@worldaccess.nl" <yolanda@WORLDACCESS.NL>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 02:47:26 +1

--------

Howie Brounstein wrote:



>. Some plants

> concentrate selenium, and become more poisonous than the other plants

> around them. Fortunately for folks wildcrafting around here,  the

> soils in the Pacific Northwest are low in this mineral.

<>

So, since my soil is extremely low in selenium, I would want to eat

more plants which accumulate the selenium.  I am very reluctant to

buy any supplements to my food.



> For more information about selenium

> accumulators, see Kirk's Wild Edible Plants  or a basic soils

> textbook.



Thank you for this story and information, now I'll try to find a basic

soils  textbook which does have information on this, since mine

doesn't,  and in the meantime I woul like to know the exact name of

the  author,  ISDN etc  of this book on  wild edible plants, so I can

look for it over here in Europe.



BTW what is meant by wildcrafting?



Yolanda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 01:11:01 +0000

--------

Yolanda said:



> Thank you for this story and information, now I'll try to find a basic

> soils  textbook which does have information on this, since mine

> doesn't,  and in the meantime I woul like to know the exact name of

> the  author,  ISDN etc  of this book on  wild edible plants, so I can

> look for it over here in Europe.



Kirk, Donald R. Wild Edible Plants of the Western United States.

Naturegraph Publishers, Inc., Happy Camp, CA, 1970, 1975.



> BTW what is meant by wildcrafting?



Gathering plants in their natural "wild" environment.

Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 19:16:45 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-06 02:46:47 EST, you write:



>We sell a colloidal mineral product which has been on the market since

>the 1920's and it comes from plant material which has been buried in

>catastrophic flooding and is now somewhat left in a preserved state

>which allows it to be dug up and processed into a liquid form for human

>consumption. It too, comes from Utah. It has 72 trace minerals including

>selenium.

>A bottle which lasts for a month costs $38 wholesale.  I have never had

>anything do so much for my physical well being.

>Soaring Eagle Ventures is the name of the manufacturer and dist.

>

>



Yes, this subject has been beat to death by the "Dead Doctors Don't Lie tape

and subsequent multi-level product. There must be a dozen or more companies

putting out these colloidal mineral products from the same source with 72-77

mineral claims. The price of yours, however is extremely high. You will find

quality and less expense in your local health store. Many of them are very

good products.



If Paul were here he would lambaste anyone mentioning multi-level/sales on

this list.



Wishing you wellness,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: John A <amphlett@INREACH.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:31:06 +0000

--------

Kathy Lingo wrote:

>

> In a message dated 97-01-06 02:46:47 EST, you write:

>

> >We sell a colloidal mineral product which has been on the market since

> >the 1920's and it comes from plant material which has been buried in

> >catastrophic flooding and is now somewhat left in a preserved state

> >which allows it to be dug up and processed into a liquid form for human

> >consumption. It too, comes from Utah. It has 72 trace minerals including

> >selenium.

> >A bottle which lasts for a month costs $38 wholesale.  I have never had

> >anything do so much for my physical well being.

> >Soaring Eagle Ventures is the name of the manufacturer and dist.

> >

> >

>

> Yes, this subject has been beat to death by the "Dead Doctors Don't Lie tape

> and subsequent multi-level product. There must be a dozen or more companies

> putting out these colloidal mineral products from the same source with 72-77

> mineral claims. The price of yours, however is extremely high. You will find

> quality and less expense in your local health store. Many of them are very

> good products.

>

> If Paul were here he would lambaste anyone mentioning multi-level/sales on

> this list.

>

> Wishing you wellness,

>

> Kathy

Kathy:



I do not sell this product. But I do buy it.  My question now, since you

know alot about this, is what do you think about the claims made for

"colloidal" versus regular minerals in pill form?

The one thing I have found in my search for truth regarding health

products is this:  there is no yardstick to check it out by.



So many claims, so many healings, and we all know of the placebo effects

of many products....so.....who can know?



This is truly a subject of mystery.



I do not place any trust in science either, so I guess it is a toss-up.



john A





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: "Sarah A. Boardman" <LUCKYSARAH@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:33:02 -0500

--------

Colloidal Minerals

According to science, the surface of the earth has changed significantly

since it's inception.  Once of these changes apparently occurred

approximately 70 million years ago in an area where The Rockland Mine is now

located.  Supposedly a glacier or other causes of earth movement buried a

large quantity of vegetative matter which may have been a dense growth or a

washed in bog of numerous plants.  Today this area of 1000 acres entombs a 30

foot thick strata of prehistoric deposit of plants, which was or still is,

under great pressure from the earth.  All of the moisture has been compressed

out of the humus and what remains is nothing more than prehistoric plant

derivatives.



This prehistoric deposit was discovered in 1926.  By 1930, trial and error

tests revealed that minerals could be extracted from the humus with water

through a natural leaching process.  Continued tests over the years revealed

 that the humus contained numerous minerals, which are colloidal in nature

(from plants) rather than normally recognized metallic minerals which come

from ground up rocks and soil.  These plant derived minerals have been sold

in liquid form to millions since 1931.   It is now available in powdered form

which has been encapsulated to overcome the inherently unpleasant taste of

pure plant minerals, yet it is absorbed into your body at the same rate as

the bitter tasting liquid form.  The fact is that the second the capsule is

introduced into your body with any kind of liquid, such as a glass of water

to wash it down, it is immediately returned to it's liquid state without the

aftertaste.



The prehistoric plant humus is excavated from The Rockland Mine at an

elevation of 6,600 feet above sea level.   The humus is placed in large food

grade vats and covered with cool, catalyzed, contaminant free water which

gradually leaches the minerals from the humus.  This simple process extends

over a period of weeks during which time the vats are undisturbed so as to

prevent unnatural or forced extraction of dissolved mineral solids.  Nothing

such as citric acid or hot water is used to force mineral extraction and

nothing is added to the product.  It is one of the most natural products on

earth.  Each quart of the liquid mineral contains approximately 38,000

milligrams of 7 major minerals and 70 trace minerals.  The liquid minerals

are now low temperature concentrated by TRC and the concentration of

dissolved solids.  This is the purest, most comprehensive and most result

producing plant derived colloidal mineral supplement in the world in my

research. It can help supplement a body's daily mineral needs, and because

it's minerals come from plants, it is one of the most absorbable nutrients

one can use.



I have completed some extensive research, as you can see with the write up,

on colloidal minerals and have not enjoyed the TASTE of the liquid form.

 When I found the colloidal mineral available in tablet form it was a

blessing, because the benefits are like John A. stated OUTSTANDING and I now

do not have to put-up with the bad taste.  Sorry to have run on so much, but

like John A. I am very happy and surprised about this discovery.



I agree with Kathy about not promoting any particular company on this list,

but I am more than willing to share my source for the capsule form of these

minierals with anyone.  E-mail me at luckysarah@aol.com and I will share.  I

would hope that others will do the same.



One point to be aware of with purchasing supplements, I learned the hard way,

and that is you should do your homework on anything sold off the consumer

shevles.  Comsumer Report did a great research and testing piece a couple of

years ago on supplement "PILL COMPANIES" I recommend everyone read it.  I

found where the medical professional obtain their "pharmacutical grade"

supplements and there is a big difference in my opinion.



Happy Herb & Health to all,

Ken Boardman





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:45:27 -0800

--------

>

>Yes, this subject has been beat to death by the "Dead Doctors Don't Lie tape

>and subsequent multi-level product.



>If Paul were here he would lambaste anyone mentioning multi-level/sales on

>this list.



Wishing you wellness,

>

>Kathy



he would also be lambasting the phony claims of collodial minerals.



richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: John A <amphlett@INREACH.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:55:12 +0000

--------

linda/richard wrote:

>

> >

> >Yes, this subject has been beat to death by the "Dead Doctors Don't Lie tape

> >and subsequent multi-level product.

>

> >If Paul were here he would lambaste anyone mentioning multi-level/sales on

> >this list.

>

> Wishing you wellness,

> >

> >Kathy

>

> he would also be lambasting the phony claims of collodial minerals.

>

> richard

>         richard  and linda                      seattle wa.



richard:

I must admit i know almost nothing about colloidals or regular minerals

so please fill me in.  How are they phony?

What yardstick do you use to find the truth about such things?



john a





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 09:04:47 -0800

--------

At 08:33 PM 1/6/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Colloidal Minerals

>

(Large snip)



>I have completed some extensive research, as you can see with the write up,



Ken, would you please share the sources of your extensive research.  Thank you.



Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:45:57 -0800

--------

>richard:

>I must admit i know almost nothing about colloidals or regular minerals

>so please fill me in.  How are they phony?

>What yardstick do you use to find the truth about such things?

>

>john a

>

john;

phony because there is nothing solid to back up all the claims. no studies,

no science.

my wife is a ND so we get many journals and periodicals, have a good med.

library nearby

and we also go to conventions and talk to research people. most companies

who's products we use make their research available to us and/or provide

references.



while iam not totally in love with the scientific approach to healing there

are times when the scientific method is useful.



richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Selenium in plants

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:13:39 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-07 03:42:55 EST, you write:



>I do not sell this product. But I do buy it.  My question now, since you

>know alot about this, is what do you think about the claims made for

>"colloidal" versus regular minerals in pill form?

>The one thing I have found in my search for truth regarding health

>products is this:  there is no yardstick to check it out by.

>

>So many claims, so many healings, and we all know of the placebo effects

>of many products....so.....who can know?

>

>This is truly a subject of mystery.

>

>I do not place any trust in science either, so I guess it is a toss-up.

>

>john A



Hi John!



It is tough to know who is speaking truth and who is trying to sell a

product. I read a lot since I own a health store. And I became very convinced

that colloidal was the best form  for mineral absorption. Then I ran across a

very credible article that advocated equal absorption from chelated--and it

left me wondering. What I do know is that I probably need mineral

supplementation. I choose a company who has longevity, reputation, and

investment in natural healing and for whom I have respect and I use their

product depending on personal preferences. One time I might choose liquid

form because I am tired of swallowing pills--and the next time I might choose

the convenience of a pill. I tend to vary my routine a bit and give my body

choices and changes.



Wishing you wellness,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Suma

From: Will Bason <wbason@SWVA.NET>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:58:57 -0500

--------

Hello,



        I'm looking for information on the herb "suma" or "brazilian

ginseng". Can anyone help by telling me about it or where to find info

about it.



                                                thanks,

                                                        will





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Suma

From: D J Raven <djraven@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:11:01 EST

--------

On Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:58:57 -0500 Will Bason <wbason@SWVA.NET> writes:

>Hello,

>

>        I'm looking for information on the herb "suma" or "brazilian

>ginseng". Can anyone help by telling me about it or where to find info

>about it.

>

Suma is one of mother natures pep pills. Take it very early in the day if

you want to sleep at night.



DJ





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Suma

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:55:54 EST

--------

Suma (pfaffia paniculata) is called Brazilian ginseng or Brazilian

carrot.  It is a shrub that grows in laterite soils which contain large

amounts of iron oxide and aluminium hydroxides, but very little humus or

other nutrients.  The thick rhyzome is the part used.  It appears to

contain high amounts of iron, natural sugars and several ginseng-related

compounds.  It is useful in treating anemia, fatigue and PMS.

Anti-cancer activity attributed to the drug would be due to pfaffosides

and pfaffic acid, according to Japanese in vitro research on malignant

melanoma cells.  It apparently has little ethnobotanic tradition behind

it, especially for any duration.  Heinerman quotes a botanist as saying

that the herb use has been entrepeneurially driven rather than an

expansion of traditional native medicine.  I do not know if aluminium

compounds are found within the plant, but that would be a caution.



For botanical information check out:

 http://www.helsinki.fi:80/kmus/botmenu.html

 http://herb.biol.uregina.ca/liu/bio/botany.html

 Vol 23 of _Phytochemistry_ and vol 2102 (191149n) of _Chemical

Abstracts_



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:58:57 -0500 Will Bason <wbason@SWVA.NET> writes:

>Hello,

>

>        I'm looking for information on the herb "suma" or "brazilian

>ginseng". Can anyone help by telling me about it or where to find info

>about it.

>

>                                                thanks,

>                                                        will

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux

From: Dave Miller <millerd@CYB1.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:22:47 -0500

--------

I have a 4 year old child that was born with Hydroencephelitus (spelling?), he has severe Cerebal Palsy and is fed via a stomach tube and has a Traech to breathe with.



Any herbs for reflux? 



He is taking a medication called Cisipride (propulsid) which is a reflux suppressant I believe, and Tagamet which is used to neutralize the acid. The effectiveness of the Cisipride is questionable, and has long term side effects.



His diet is strictly a formulae called Pediasure, he does not take any by mouth - tends to aspirate.



Thanks,



Dave Miller

millerd@cyb1.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux

From: Dave Miller <millerd@CYB1.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:22:47 -0500

--------

I have a 4 year old child that was born with Hydroencephelitus (spelling?), he has severe Cerebal Palsy and is fed via a stomach tube and has a Traech to breathe with.



Any herbs for reflux? 



He is taking a medication called Cisipride (propulsid) which is a reflux suppressant I believe, and Tagamet which is used to neutralize the acid. The effectiveness of the Cisipride is questionable, and has long term side effects.



His diet is strictly a formulae called Pediasure, he does not take any by mouth - tends to aspirate.



Thanks,



Dave Miller

millerd@cyb1.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux

From: Susan bendixen <Susipnr@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:05:39 -0500

--------

My mother in law has reflux and has found that drinking aloe vera has really

helped.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:49:16 -0900

--------

At 09:22 AM 1/2/97 -0500, Dave Miller wrote:

>I have a 4 year old child that was born with Hydroencephelitus (spelling?),

he has severe Cerebal Palsy and is fed via a stomach tube and has a Traech

to breathe with.

>

>Any herbs for reflux?

>

>He is taking a medication called Cisipride (propulsid) which is a reflux

suppressant I believe, and Tagamet which is used to neutralize the acid. The

effectiveness of the Cisipride is questionable, and has long term side effects.

>

>His diet is strictly a formulae called Pediasure, he does not take any by

mouth - tends to aspirate.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Dave Miller

>millerd@cyb1.com

>

>

My niece has a child (1 yr) with the same problem.  I'd be interested to

hear discussion of this.  This baby is undergoing surgery next week for a

cleft pallet.  She is also unable to eat my mouth but does not need a traech

for breathing.  What exactly is the action of the cicipride? Perhaps there

is an herb that would have similar action. I am unfamiliar with this drug.

As to Tagamet, I know of no herb that will neutralize acids as this does.

An herbal approach would involve aiding digestion to bring about proper

introduction of digestive juices to avoid excess acid in the first place.  I

don't know if this would be helpful in your case.  It's more complicated due

to the physical condition of the child.  Nothing's ever simple is it?

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:40:47 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-02 15:11:33 EST, you write:



>As to Tagamet, I know of no herb that will neutralize acids as this does.

>An herbal approach would involve aiding digestion to bring about proper

>introduction of digestive juices to avoid excess acid in the first place.



Anita,



Would Deglyccerizzed Licorice Root be an option? I ask because it was

suggested by my Naturopathic doctor as a substitute for Tagamet--and it works

beautifully for stomache acid distress.



And could digestion be aided with pancreatin? It greatly helps digestion

without causing discomfort for people with hiatal hernias. I am just shooting

off the cuff here with some thoughts that may or may not have a bearing on

such a difficult problem.



Wishing you all the best,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:24:29 -0900

--------

At 07:40 PM 1/2/97 -0500, Kathy Lingo wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-02 15:11:33 EST, you write:

>

>>As to Tagamet, I know of no herb that will neutralize acids as this does.

>>An herbal approach would involve aiding digestion to bring about proper

>>introduction of digestive juices to avoid excess acid in the first place.

>

>Anita,

>

>Would Deglyccerizzed Licorice Root be an option? I ask because it was

>suggested by my Naturopathic doctor as a substitute for Tagamet--and it works

>beautifully for stomache acid distress.

>

>And could digestion be aided with pancreatin? It greatly helps digestion

>without causing discomfort for people with hiatal hernias. I am just shooting

>off the cuff here with some thoughts that may or may not have a bearing on

>such a difficult problem.

>

>Wishing you all the best,

>

>Kathy

>

>

Probably liquorice would be good for this.  It's good for just about

anything else.  A wonderful herb.  I'm not sure the action would be the same

as tagamet but if the result is decreased acid, why not?   I'm not really

familiar with using tissue salts but they may also be helpful in such a

case.  It's difficult to decide what to do when there are physical defects

to deal with.  Those are things you can't usually fix with herbs but need

surgery to correct.  I guess you just have to work around it.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux

From: Annette Greco <AGRECO4391@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 06:37:37 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-02 19:43:49 EST, you write:



<< And could digestion be aided with pancreatin? It greatly helps digestion

 without causing discomfort for people with hiatal hernias. I am just

shooting

 off the cuff here with some thoughts that may or may not have a bearing on

 such a difficult problem.

  >>



What is pancreatin and where can one obtain it?  My mother suffers from a

hiatal hernia and reflux.  There was also a suggestion to drink aloe vera to

help reflux.  What are the advantages of each?



Thanks!

Annette





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:15:07 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-07 07:38:14 EST, you write:



><< And could digestion be aided with pancreatin? It greatly helps digestion

> without causing discomfort for people with hiatal hernias. I am just

>shooting

> off the cuff here with some thoughts that may or may not have a bearing on

> such a difficult problem.

>  >>

>

>What is pancreatin and where can one obtain it?  My mother suffers from a

>hiatal hernia and reflux.  There was also a suggestion to drink aloe vera to

>help reflux.  What are the advantages of each?

>

>Thanks!

>Annette





Annette,



Hiatal hernias are very common. It is estimated that 40-50% of the population

over 40 have them. However, not all are bothered by them.



My acid reflux has been greatly helped by 1) finding food allergies and

eliminating them (this one is very important!), 2) using Mega-Zyme by

Enzymatic Therapy (Proteolytic enzymes & Pancreatin) with all meals, 3)

eating small, frequent meals and never over-eating, 4) sitting up super

straight when I eat, 5) not bending, lifting, or reclining after meals, 6)

chewing papaya tablets frequently (with meals and snacks),  7) manual

manipulation (press in firmly with thumb as high in the stomache as ribs will

allow and press inward and downward), 8) chiropractic adjustment of the

zyphoid and 9) eliminating fried foods & constipation. Digestive enzymes with

hydrochloric acid will irritate people with active hiatal hernias.



Wishing you wellness,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Ointments for Nerve Damage

From: "D. J. Haut" <chat97@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:28:05 PST

--------

Does anyone know of any Herbal Ointments

or Lotions for  Damaged Nerves?



Danielle



(By the way, the flooding in my area is looking

better, but as for south of us looks bad still)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ointments for Nerve Damage

From: Alison Birks <ali@NTPLX.NET>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:04:26 +0100

--------

Danielle:



The best herbal oil/ointment for damaged nerves is St. Johnswort

(Hypericum perforatum).  I've seen it work incredibly well for wounds

with minor nerve trauma, and I highly recommend it.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ointments for Nerve Damage

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:49:14 -0900

--------

At 10:28 AM 1/2/97 PST, D. J. Haut wrote:

>Does anyone know of any Herbal Ointments

>or Lotions for  Damaged Nerves?

>

>Danielle

>

>(By the way, the flooding in my area is looking

>better, but as for south of us looks bad still)

>

>

Nerve damage is a difficult thing.  My daughter had nerve damage from an

injury on her leg about 10 years ago.  she is just now getting feeling back

in the area.  I have found that using Symphytum, Verbascum, Zanthoxylum, and

Hypericum with maybe a dash of Capsicum to be very healing and helps

eliminate inflammation and swelling in the affected area.  The more

inflammation you can eliminate, the better the situation is for healing.

Zanthoxylum and Capsicum are excellent stumulants to help bring circulation

to the area.  Zanthozylum is slower and more diffusive, Capsicum is more

direct and faster to act.  You may also want to add Lobelia to relax

tissues.  I'd just add  all but the stimulants in equal parts in the

ointment and use about 1/4 stimulants.  Adding a dash of Melaleuca essential

oil will make it penetrate deeper but may be irritating to some so use it

with discretion and use it sparingly.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ointments for Nerve Damage

From: Gary Malm <gmalm@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:35:58 -0800

--------

D. J. Haut wrote:

> >Does anyone know of any Herbal Ointments

> >or Lotions for  Damaged Nerves?

> >





Danielle,



Saw your post and thought I might be able to add a thought or two. I have

a 'complex' nerve/pain syndrome called TN. I have only found remission

and reliet through TCM, the Chinese doctor I go to INSISTED that I eat

avena sativa each morning (organic, and well cooked) this is OATS. At

first I didn't know why he recommended this but subsequent investigation

of the herb revealed that oats has a valuable nerve tonic component in

it. Since the nerve problem and its' associated pain is now gone/in

remission...I would like to pin some of the credit on the oats and herbal

tonics and digestive stimulating herbs I receive regularly from the

Chinese doctor. My advice is to extend your external approach to include

diet as well.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ointments for Nerve Damage

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:40:52 -0500

--------

Hypericum in homeopathic dosage may be something to look into also. It works

very well for nerve disruptions of a dental nature.



Consulting a Homeopathic Doctor would be another option if the topicals don't

work for you.



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ointments for Nerve Damage

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:34:33 EST

--------

Hello,



I'm curious, I had magnetic therapy last year and I'm almost guaranteed

that my left index finger, part of my middle finger and top hand is numb

and highly sensitive as a cause of the magnet that was placed on my hand.

 I must put my hand into a fist to protect it from anyone touching it, or

else I will have extreme pain in the area of numbness.... The problem has

not been reversed and I am interested if such a problem can be reversed

with St. Johnswort as previously mentioned?



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Bad things about stevia?

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:31:25 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-02 04:41:00 EST, you write:



>Mariana Chapochnikoff wrote:

>

>>  Stevia rebaudiana Hems. L ( Eupatorium rebaudianum Bertoni ) is a plant

>> deeply "edulcorant", soft laxative. It produces soft hypoglycemia also.

>> Warning..it is not recommended to use it for a long time as it has

>> antihormonal effects.

>>

>

>First bad thing I've heard about stevia. I am considering using it for

>its non-glycemic sweetening qualities.

>

>Tell me more.

>

>--Michael





I have always heard that Stevia helps to stabilize blood sugar. And I have

not, prior to this, heard any negatives either.



What is the source of your information regarding Stevia's side effects?



Thanks,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Herbal Medicine Making

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:07:36 -0800

--------

Hello Fellow Listmembers,



In February, I will be presenting an informal workshop about herbal medicine

making at an herbal and aromatherapy conference in Scottsdale, AZ.  I will

cover some general terms, techniques and considerations relative to making

infusions, decoctions, tinctures, oil infusions, glycerites and salves.   We

will also explore a variety of herbs useful for infusing in vinegars and

oils for skin care.  We will end the session by preparing infused vinegars

and oils in the "folk method" for participants to take home.



I am putting together a slide presentation to help visualize some of the

apparatus used, both ancient and modern, used in herbal medicine making.  I

am gleaning information from a variety of sources from Dr. Chase's Second

Receipt Book, published in 1873 to Penelope Ody and James Green's definitive

works published in the 1990's.   I would appreciate biblio and resource

suggestions, if you are willing to share.



I also would like to hear from those of you who might take such a workshop.

What specific methods would you like to know the most about?  Is it

important for you to also learn economic, intuitive or spiritual/social

principles alongside the practical?  Please share any other considerations

you might have.



You can email me privately.  Thanks very much.



Be well,









Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbal Medicine Making

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:31:22 EST

--------

Marcia-



I recently attended the Green Nations Gathering in Phonecia, NY, which

held a number of workshops in subjects like those you are proposing.  The

workshops I found most useful were those in which Amanda McQuade Crawford

discussed the phytochemistry and biology of how nervines, Lyme disease

treatments and phytoestrogens worked.  I also found the workshops on

making tinctures and cosmetics helpful, but I would have liked more

discussion on modifying the recipies for different herbs. (eg:  using 100

proof vodka to tincture hypercicum but 80 proof for echinicea.)  Also

discussion of which herbs do not mix well and something on the theory of

formulary mixtures.



Also, I don't know if its a problem in your area, but I would have

appreciated less in the way of Native American (pseudo Native American)

religious practices (as opposed to insights, which I greatly appreciate.)

Some of us already have religious beliefs.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:07:36 -0800 Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

writes:

>Hello Fellow Listmembers,

>

>In February, I will be presenting an informal workshop about herbal

>medicine

>making at an herbal and aromatherapy conference in Scottsdale, AZ.  I

>will

>cover some general terms, techniques and considerations relative to

>making

>infusions, decoctions, tinctures, oil infusions, glycerites and

>salves.   We

>will also explore a variety of herbs useful for infusing in vinegars

>and

>oils for skin care.  We will end the session by preparing infused

>vinegars

>and oils in the "folk method" for participants to take home.

>

>I am putting together a slide presentation to help visualize some of

>the

>apparatus used, both ancient and modern, used in herbal medicine

>making.  I

>am gleaning information from a variety of sources from Dr. Chase's

>Second

>Receipt Book, published in 1873 to Penelope Ody and James Green's

>definitive

>works published in the 1990's.   I would appreciate biblio and

>resource

>suggestions, if you are willing to share.

>

>I also would like to hear from those of you who might take such a

>workshop.

>What specific methods would you like to know the most about?  Is it

>important for you to also learn economic, intuitive or

>spiritual/social

>principles alongside the practical?  Please share any other

>considerations

>you might have.

>

>You can email me privately.  Thanks very much.

>

>Be well,

>

>

>

>

>Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

>Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

>                                  Herbal Indulgence

>                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbal Medicine Making

From: Bruce Mencer <BMencer@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:14:35 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-17 14:20:09 EST, you write:



<< Tami, I for one, enjoyed and appreciated the attachment from Mr. (Dr.?)

 Doyle.  Bandwidth be damned.  Are you the list administrator?  If so, say

 so.  And to a few on the list: get a thicker skin and a sense of humor.

 Kay?



 Storme Shaw

 Bangor, ME >>



Yeah!  What she said.  Thick skin. Laugh more.  We're here to help.  Let's

help.

By the way, anyone familiar with the "Sundown" brand of herbs?  I was using a

formulation from Trace Minerals called "StressX" which worked but was very

expensive.  Have just purchased Sundowns "Calm 500" a mix of valerian root,

siberian ginseng and skullcap.  Seems to work, less expensive (by 2/3).  I am

just curious.  Also life has been calm...I guess we'll wait and see.



Thanks



Bruce





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbal Medicine Making

From: Jayel <jayel@SLINKNET.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:52:48 -0600

--------

At 04:14 PM 1/18/97 -0500, Bruce wrote:



<various other words laying on the cutting room floor>



>By the way, anyone familiar with the "Sundown" brand of herbs?  I was using a

>formulation from Trace Minerals called "StressX" which worked but was very

>expensive.  Have just purchased Sundowns "Calm 500" a mix of valerian root,

>siberian ginseng and skullcap.  Seems to work, less expensive (by 2/3).  I am

>just curious.  Also life has been calm...I guess we'll wait and see.

>

>Thanks

>

>Bruce



I think if you query the listserver database you will find that StressX and

Sundown were discussed before... a very useful feature really...



As I recall there was a discussion of Sun... something or other and the

consensus was that they are an abomination to all makind... sundown?

suntracker? sunrider? Something like that... this is where the database

comes in... it doesn't forget. But then again it isn't being pestered by the

cat and doesn't have to think of things like coming back as a K-Mart motion

detector...



Jayel Hoover

jayel@slinknet.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:00:58 +0100

--------

In a message dated Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:53:50 -0500, you wrote:

>

> now, i'd like to ask for some opinions from list members on the

> medicinal usage of marijuana.... >>



I think what all herbal practitioners (as well as professionals in any

field of human endeavor) use as their guide is the following: if it works,

go for it. The issue of using cannabis sativa (marijuana) for medicinal

purposes is so intertwined with politics, (so-called) morality and lobbying

activities in America today that a responsible, logical response from the

government is *not* to be expected.



 On Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:41:24 -0600 Theresa J. McGarry

<tjm-a@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU> wrote:

>he has also had marijuana, which helps him when

>nothing else can because he lost 20 pounds in three weeks of being

>diagnosed and it really is not a good thing...



There can be *no* argument with the fact that marijuana is excellent for

the stimulation of appetite. It had been in use as a pharmaceutical for

thousands of years before running afoul of the law in the twentieth

century. According to Mrs. M. Grieve in her book 'A Modern Herbal'

published in 1931, that is before the marijuana scare hit the fan, its

"principal use...in medicine is for easing pain and inducing sleep, and

...a soothing influence in nervous disorders...It is useful in neuralgia,

gout, rheumatism, delerium tremens, (the DT's-coming off alcohol

addiction), insanity, infantile convulsions, insomnia, etc."

        Please pass along all the compassion there is to your husband.



        Don't know whether to believe the following but I pass it along anyway

from the same herbal written for an antibiotic-less world:

"The following is stated to be a certain cure for gonorrhoea. Take equal

parts of tops of male and female hemp in blossom. Bruise in a mortar,

express the juice, and add an equal portion of alcohol. Take 1 to 3 drops

every two to three hours." Anybody game?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Taheebo, La Pacho, Pau d'Arco

From: Graham White <hendongreen@GN.APC.ORG>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:23:19 GMT

--------

>For anyone interested in reference book starters - I think "The New Holistic

>Herbal" by David Hoffmann, and "Natural Healing with Herbs", by Humbart

>Santillo are about as good as anyone will find.  Both of these books are

>available in any good health food store, or Borders, or Barnes & Nobel.



Anyone wanting a more detailed review article there is :



'Lapacho' by Edward H. Oswald in British Journal of Phytotherapy (1993/4).

Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 112-117. This is a translation of an article published

elsewhere in Dutch (I think) but I don't know where.



Cheers











Graham White

------------



hendongreen@gn.apc.org

gw035@mdx.ac.uk





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: St. Johns Wort

From: Lynn Rausch <lrausc19@EMAIL8.STARNETINC.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:28:01 GMT

--------

Hello everyone,





 I'm new to this list and have been lurking about for 1 week now. I was

wondering if anybody has used this St. Johns Wort for anxiety and panic attacks?

They had mentioned St. John's on TV once. I'm very tired of taking these

medicines Zoloft, Klonopin.

 Has anyone tired any of the DHEA stuff? If so do you like it? I've been reading

about DHEA. Sounds like something I'd like to try.



Lynn



lrausc19@email8.starnetinc.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: St. Johns Wort

From: Lynn Rausch <lrausc19@EMAIL8.STARNETINC.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:28:01 GMT

--------

Hello everyone,





 I'm new to this list and have been lurking about for 1 week now. I was

wondering if anybody has used this St. Johns Wort for anxiety and panic attacks?

They had mentioned St. John's on TV once. I'm very tired of taking these

medicines Zoloft, Klonopin.

 Has anyone tired any of the DHEA stuff? If so do you like it? I've been reading

about DHEA. Sounds like something I'd like to try.



Lynn



lrausc19@email8.starnetinc.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:24:48 EST

--------

Lynn-



I've used St. Johnswort for other problems, but not for depression.

However there is an entire web site dedicated to that use:



http:\\hypercicum.com



I'll send you some old posts on St. Johnswort offlist, since thay have

already been posted.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:28:01 GMT Lynn Rausch

<lrausc19@EMAIL8.STARNETINC.COM> writes:

>Hello everyone,

>

>

> I'm new to this list and have been lurking about for 1 week now. I

>was

>wondering if anybody has used this St. Johns Wort for anxiety and

>panic attacks?

>They had mentioned St. John's on TV once. I'm very tired of taking

>these

>medicines Zoloft, Klonopin.

> Has anyone tired any of the DHEA stuff? If so do you like it? I've

>been reading

>about DHEA. Sounds like something I'd like to try.

>

>Lynn

>

>lrausc19@email8.starnetinc.com

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:39:41 -0800

--------

At 07:28 PM 1/3/97 GMT, you wrote:

>Hello everyone,

>

>

>

> Has anyone tired any of the DHEA stuff? If so do you like it? I've been

reading

>about DHEA. Sounds like something I'd like to try.

>

>Lynn

>

lynn;

its not a good idea to 'try' something like dhea, a steroid hormone.

find a professional who can evaluate your condition and constitution and if

warranted

test for dhea levels before use. levels should be checked again 3 months

after beginning

supplementation.

you really need a diagnosis of need before randomly taking hormones



richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort

From: Bruce Mencer <BMencer@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 07:30:54 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-04 05:40:08 EST, you write:



<< They had mentioned St. John's on TV once. I'm very tired of taking these

 medicines Zoloft, Klonopin. >>



Lynn,

   I have never tried St John's Wort, but have used Zoloft.  I was

recommended an excellent herbal replacement for it.  It is put out by Trace

minerals and it's called Stress-X.  It's guaranteed to work or your money

back.  I have used it for over a month now and I am amazed at the difference

in my life.



Good luck,



Bruce





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort

From: "Theresa J. McGarry" <tjm-a@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:00:21 -0600

--------

>Hello everyone,

>

>

> I'm new to this list and have been lurking about for 1 week now. I was

>wondering if anybody has used this St. Johns Wort for anxiety and panic

>attacks?

>They had mentioned St. John's on TV once. I'm very tired of taking these

>medicines Zoloft, Klonopin.

> Has anyone tired any of the DHEA stuff? If so do you like it? I've been

>reading

>about DHEA. Sounds like something I'd like to try.

>

>Lynn

>

>lrausc19@email8.starnetinc.com

********************



As a matter of fact, I used St. John's Wort to relieve the anxiety

brought on after my husband was diagnosed with cancer this last

fall.  I had been on allopathic anti-depressants and had nearly

gotten myself -off- of those, working toward a more holistic

and natural approach, and I didn't want to fall backward on my

progress, as it were, but I knew that I was having some coping

problems.  The St. John's Wort, far more subtle but just as

effective or more than anything from the allopathic medical

community, helped -- sincerely.  I keep it in the cabinet for

stressful times and just that it's there helps relieve my mind :)



Theresa





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort

From: Daniela Lowe <danlowe@OVERNET.COM.AR>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:32:58 -0300

--------

At 19:28 3/01/97 GMT, you wrote:

>Hello everyone,

>

>

> I'm new to this list and have been lurking about for 1 week now. I was

>wondering if anybody has used this St. Johns Wort for anxiety and panic

attacks?

>They had mentioned St. John's on TV once. I'm very tired of taking these

>medicines Zoloft, Klonopin.

> Has anyone tired any of the DHEA stuff? If so do you like it? I've been

reading

>about DHEA. Sounds like something I'd like to try.

>

>Lynn

>

>lrausc19@email8.starnetinc.com



Hi Lynn,Welcome to the list.

I have gone through panic attacks a lot of times, during the last three

years, what helped me appart from Zoloft, was taking vitamins, a good B

complex, and also going into a Theraphy treatment. I am quite better, also

had some help with Gestalt treatment, and phsycodrama.

May be you could tell me what is ST.Johns Wort cause I have never heard

about it.

Remember I live far away...

If you want to write to me feel free to do it to my mail.

Receive my best wishes for you for this year, and remember that strength is

inside ourselves, the same as panic...It's our task to defeat it.

Cheers

Daniela.

Danielita

Buenos Aires



AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE EST.   @-;-'---,'--- 







       





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort

From: Linda K Shipley <lindashipley@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:56:23 EST

--------

There is a web site on SJW--www.hypericum.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux... licorice DGL

From: Robert Thiel <gavilan@NBNET.NB.CA>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:39:55 -0400

--------

>

>Would Deglyccerizzed Licorice Root be an option? I ask because it was

>suggested by my Naturopathic doctor as a substitute for Tagamet--and it works

>beautifully for stomache acid distress.



Zantac was prescribed for me by my GP for a small esophageal ulcer. I took

the stuff for over 2 years, but still had problems if I didn't watch what I

ate (if I didn't combine properly).



Then a couple of months ago I read that Zantac changed the stomach lining

negatively, a few days later I came across an article about Licorice DGL,

bought some at a local health food store, stopped taking the Zantac and

haven't had any problems with ulcer since then even when I did the

traditional turkey dinner at Xmas time (with lots of wine). It's the first

herb that has benefited me (to my knowledge).



Be sure and buy the 'DGL' (Deglycyrrhizinated) form of licorice.



Happy New Year to you all,



-Bob





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux... licorice DGL

From: Daniela Lowe <danlowe@OVERNET.COM.AR>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:33:13 -0300

--------

Bob, please let me know about this, if possible in Spanish, I have to take

care too with what I eat, four years ago, and due to a spine problem, I was

given a medication that cause 3 stomach ulcers. Ulcers are gone, but not the

acidity I have sometimes, and also the swelling and the dispepsia.

I was also given Zantac, and also Losec, but I don't wont to get back on

them again.

Thanks a lot and I hope you can give me some good news!!!

Cheers, Daniela.











 16:39 3/01/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>

>>Would Deglyccerizzed Licorice Root be an option? I ask because it was

>>suggested by my Naturopathic doctor as a substitute for Tagamet--and it works

>>beautifully for stomache acid distress.

>

>Zantac was prescribed for me by my GP for a small esophageal ulcer. I took

>the stuff for over 2 years, but still had problems if I didn't watch what I

>ate (if I didn't combine properly).

>

>Then a couple of months ago I read that Zantac changed the stomach lining

>negatively, a few days later I came across an article about Licorice DGL,

>bought some at a local health food store, stopped taking the Zantac and

>haven't had any problems with ulcer since then even when I did the

>traditional turkey dinner at Xmas time (with lots of wine). It's the first

>herb that has benefited me (to my knowledge).

>

>Be sure and buy the 'DGL' (Deglycyrrhizinated) form of licorice.

>

>Happy New Year to you all,

>

>-Bob

>

>

Danielita

Buenos Aires



AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE EST.   @-;-'---,'--- 







       





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux... licorice DGL

From: Robert Thiel <gavilan@NBNET.NB.CA>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:53:19 -0400

--------

>>

>Danielita

>Buenos Aires

>

>AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE EST.   @-;-'---,'---

>



Licorice es, claro, 'regaliz' en espaol. Es importante comprarlo en la

forma 'dgl'. Esto significa que han sacado la parte txica que contiene el

regaliz.



Ojal y lo puedas comprar en BA. Me ha ayudado mucho. Tambin hay que tener

cuidado con las combinaciones que comes. Es decir no mezclar la carne

(protena) con los 'starches'. Si como carne, la acompao solamente con

verduras y no con patatas or pasta. Si quieres pasta, por ejemplo,tambien

la comes con verduras, etc.



Con cario,



-Bob



ps Cre que no haba llegado mi posting a la lista. T eres la nica

persona que ha mencionado lo que escrib sobre el regaliz DGL.



  *+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*



    -+-  Bob Thiel  -+-

    Moncton, NB, Canada

    gavilan@nbnet.nb.ca

Translator: Spanish to English





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux... licorice DGL

From: Daniela Lowe <danlowe@OVERNET.COM.AR>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:43:15 -0300

--------

At 18:53 5/01/97 -0400, you wrote:



>

>Licorice es, claro, 'regaliz' en espaol. Es importante comprarlo en la

>forma 'dgl'. Esto significa que han sacado la parte txica que contiene el

>regaliz.

>

>Ojal y lo puedas comprar en BA. Me ha ayudado mucho. Tambin hay que tener

>cuidado con las combinaciones que comes. Es decir no mezclar la carne

>(protena) con los 'starches'. Si como carne, la acompao solamente con

>verduras y no con patatas or pasta. Si quieres pasta, por ejemplo,tambien

>la comes con verduras, etc.

>

>Con cario,

>

>-Bob

>

>ps Cre que no haba llegado mi posting a la lista. T eres la nica

>persona que ha mencionado lo que escrib sobre el regaliz DGL.

>

>  *+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*

>

>    -+-  Bob Thiel  -+-

>    Moncton, NB, Canada

>    gavilan@nbnet.nb.ca

>Translator: Spanish to English

>

>HOLA BOB!!!

How are you my friend!

Thanks for such a prompt answer. So it is regaliz , we call it here orozuz

too, I use to have lot of regaliz when being a little girl in a type of

gummy rolled sweet. I couldn't find that sweet any more, sorry I am, but may

be if you can explin what is "dgl" I can start on it again.

Do you know in what quantities should regaliz be ingested and if it must be

like a tea infussion or not?

Thanking you in advance.



My best wishes for you and your beloved.

Daniela, 

who has started taking tea of dandelion prepared with a little bit of petals

and a Melissa leave.

I sugared it with honey, and it tasted gorgeus!!! 

Danielita

Buenos Aires



AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE EST.   @-;-'---,'--- 







       





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux... licorice DGL

From: Daniela Lowe <danlowe@OVERNET.COM.AR>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:43:19 -0300

--------

At 17:36 5/01/97 EST, you wrote:



>If you need any messages translated into Spanish, I would be glad to do

>it for you. Just send then to me as saundrag@juno.com, with your request.

>

>BTW, I love your motto.

>

>Saundra in Texas

>

Sandra; 

Hola, como ests?

Thanks for your kind offer, it really surprised me cause it was unexpected,

and I accept your offer as for english language is not so easy for me,

nevertheless, I try to speak and write it the way I know, if I make

mistakes, well, I  am sorry, it is not my intention.

What I can assure to you is that being on mailing lists is a wonderful

language practise for me.

BTW I have a strange question Do you know how many farenheits make a C ?

I would like to understand your temps.

My best wishes for you in this new year

Daniela 

In a hot 35C midday.

Danielita

Buenos Aires



AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE EST.   @-;-'---,'--- 







       





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Reflux... licorice DGL

From: natalia nis <nnis@BA.NET>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:38:00 EST

--------

Mensaje para Daniela.



Soy nueva en la lista y veo que tu tienes una gran participacion.  tambien

yo soy de BA y me interesan los yuyos.  



Chau



Natalia



>At 18:53 5/01/97 -0400, you wrote:

>

>>

>>Licorice es, claro, 'regaliz' en espaol. Es importante comprarlo en la

>>forma 'dgl'. Esto significa que han sacado la parte txica que contiene el

>>regaliz.

>>

>>Ojal y lo puedas comprar en BA. Me ha ayudado mucho. Tambin hay que tener

>>cuidado con las combinaciones que comes. Es decir no mezclar la carne

>>(protena) con los 'starches'. Si como carne, la acompao solamente con

>>verduras y no con patatas or pasta. Si quieres pasta, por ejemplo,tambien

>>la comes con verduras, etc.

>>

>>Con cario,

>>

>>-Bob

>>

>>ps Cre que no haba llegado mi posting a la lista. T eres la nica

>>persona que ha mencionado lo que escrib sobre el regaliz DGL.

>>

>>  *+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*

>>

>>    -+-  Bob Thiel  -+-

>>    Moncton, NB, Canada

>>    gavilan@nbnet.nb.ca

>>Translator: Spanish to English

>>

>>HOLA BOB!!!

>How are you my friend!

>Thanks for such a prompt answer. So it is regaliz , we call it here orozuz

>too, I use to have lot of regaliz when being a little girl in a type of

>gummy rolled sweet. I couldn't find that sweet any more, sorry I am, but may

>be if you can explin what is "dgl" I can start on it again.

>Do you know in what quantities should regaliz be ingested and if it must be

>like a tea infussion or not?

>Thanking you in advance.

>

>My best wishes for you and your beloved.

>Daniela, 

>who has started taking tea of dandelion prepared with a little bit of petals

>and a Melissa leave.

>I sugared it with honey, and it tasted gorgeus!!! 

>Danielita

>Buenos Aires

>

>AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE EST.   @-;-'---,'--- 

>

>

>

>       

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Cholesterol Level

From: "Oscar S. Maglasang" <Osmag@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:46:08 -0500

--------

Does vinegar really could bring down cholesterol level?.

Any Info is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Oscar





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cholesterol Level

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 01:03:16 -0800

--------

At 06:46 PM 1/3/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Does vinegar really could bring down cholesterol level?.

>Any Info is greatly appreciated.

>Thanks

>Oscar

>

>Yes, but is beter the Garlic oil, or a Garlic Lemonade. If you take two

capsules of pure garlic oil at day the cholesterol level decrease

significantly.

I hipe help you.



Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cholesterol Level

From: Bruce Mencer <BMencer@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 07:30:56 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-04 06:09:10 EST, you write:



<< If you take two

 capsules of pure garlic oil at day the cholesterol level decrease

 significantly. >>

Carlos,

  I need something to bring down my cholesterol.  Does this garlic oil really

work?  And how much is "significantly"?  Are there some forms/brands that are

better ?

Thanks for any info.



Bruce





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cholesterol Level

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 13:37:19 -0800

--------

At 07:30 AM 1/4/97 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-04 06:09:10 EST, you write:

>

><< If you take two

> capsules of pure garlic oil at day the cholesterol level decrease

> significantly. >>

>Carlos,

>  I need something to bring down my cholesterol.  Does this garlic oil really

>work?  And how much is "significantly"?  Are there some forms/brands that are

>better ?

>Thanks for any info.

>

>Bruce

>

>I think any brand (in EUA) is good one. Significantly is "dawn to normal",

more or less in 15 days. If your proportion of cholesterol is very high,

take tow capsules twice at day.



Caarlos





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cholesterol Level

From: Linda Woodward <lwood@FRONTIERNET.NET>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:54:32 -0800

--------

I have been taking odor free garlic tablets (2 tablets 3x per day) for

the past six months, not because my cholesteral level was bad, but the

end result has been a rise in my 'good' cholesteral count.  The total

count has not changed.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cholesterol Level

From: "JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D." <JoeZ6@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:51:41 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-04 07:36:07 EST, you write:



<<  I need something to bring down my cholesterol.  Does this garlic oil

really

 work?  And how much is "significantly"?  Are there some forms/brands that

are

 better ?

 Thanks for any info.

  >>

Bruce, from my readings garlic oil (in capsules) is not nearly as

potent/helpful as taking tablets of garlic that are enteric-coated (to

protect against destruction in the stomach) and have guaranteed

allicin-yields.  Also, no bad breath from them.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cholesterol Level

From: "JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D." <JoeZ6@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:41:34 -0500

--------

BMencer@AOL.COM (Bruce Mencer)

Bruce inquired about brands of enteric-coated garlic.  I've tried several,

Bruce, including KAL and MMS.  I've switched to DaVinci's new product:  TAP

Garlic.  They claim that their manufacturing process stabilizes the precursor

alliin and the enzyme allinase before they're converted to allicin, and that

they do this without preservatives or additives.  Each 400 mg tablet is

standardized to contain 4 mg. Allicin in each enteric coated tablet.



Suggested retail is $9.20 per bottle of 60 tabs.  Discounts for health

professionals.

800-325-1776.



Good health,





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Flame Form

From: Rosamond -Rusty- Taylor <rtaylor@SILVERLINK.NET>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:47:58 -0800

--------

>This was sent to me on another list and I thought you all might get a kick

>out of it as well since flaming is a regular topic on the herb list for some

>odd reason.  This might make it easier to send a literate flame to those

>deserving souls who need it.  I hope you all have a very Happy New Year.

>The snow won't last forever.  Just think, it will be wildcrafting time again

>before we know it.  Maybe all this moisture will benefit the wild herbs we

>all love.  TTFN--Anita

>__________________________________________________

(snip a great form!!)



Thanks, Anita.  Well, Christmas vacation was eaten up by 2 feet of snow,

then torrential rain, and then a wind storm.  We were out of power for most

of 4 days.  But, at least it wasn't too cold.  So, now we are into a new

year.  I have been having fun teaching people how to deal with the flu (hot

bath, herbal teas, etc.)  People are shocked when I tell them that no one

in my family gets flu shots.  Our oldest had a 103.5 degree temperature for

a day, and then it was gone, with just a little cough for a few days.  My

husband had a fever and was throwing up for a day, and then had a cough for

a few days, but then he was okay.  Around here, adults and kids are going

to the hospital and are out with the flu for 2 weeks.  Seems to get nastier

every year.  I dose everyone in the family with Dr. Christopher's

anti-plague formula (LOTS of garlic in it) and it seems to keep us pretty

healthy.



Hope you have a Happy New Year!



TTFN... Rusty



***************************************************************************

                          Bob & Rusty Taylor

                             Poulsbo, WA

                          rtaylor@silverlink.net (home)



***************************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: ~Happy New Year~

From: Rosamond -Rusty- Taylor <rtaylor@SILVERLINK.NET>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:48:12 -0800

--------

>Northern California ~ And the storms are still raging here.

>Danielle

>On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 21:02:57 -0800 "V. Suzanne Drake" <tanager@CRL.COM>

>writes:

>>For hevvin's sakes where do all you ~floaters~ live?  I'm sitting here

>>at

>>the computer waiting for the "big storm" to hit in a few hours

>>probably

>>knocking out the electricity.  Suzanne in Sebastopol, CA

>>

>>On Tue, 31 Dec 1996, Robin C. Whitmore wrote:

>>

>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE..

>>> AND I HOPE WE ALL DON'T FLOAT

>>> TOO.

>>>

>>





There's alot of flooding going on around here in western Washington, too,

now that the snow has pretty much melted away.  First we had 2 to 3 feet of

snow, then torrential rains, then a wind storm.  We were only out of power

for most of 4 days.  Others have been out for a week, now.  I'm so glad we

have a propane stove, now.  I can cook when power is out.  No trees fell on

us, and there are no leaks in our roof.  Our home is safe from flooding,

but downtown Poulsbo isn't.  And Silverdale is terrible.  We went to a

movie down there last night.  It took us as long to get home as it did to

watch the movie (should only be a 25 min. trip back from Silverdale).



I just heard from a friend who's parents live in norther Cal. that they are

having to move up into the Butte (sp?) mts. because a levy looks like it is

going to give way.  This is the second bad winter in a row.  Gee, I wonder

if this could be a pattern developing?



Happy New Year, everyone!



Rusty  =^}



***************************************************************************

      /\ (lime jello)

  /\ /  \ /\  /\              Bob & Rusty Taylor

 /  /    \  \/  \               Poulsbo, WA

 \ /\    /   \   \        rtaylor@silverlink.net (home)

 / \ \  /\OO /   /        yukiko@aol.com (home, but not used as much)

/   \  ^^^  ^^^ /

***************************************************************************



     Wealth is not what you have, but what you are.



                                        Sterling W. Sill



***************************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:24:48 EST

--------

Eric-



You said >>According to Mrs. M. Grieve in her book 'A Modern Herbal'

published in 1931, ...



Does anyone know how to get a copy of this book or its text?  I have been

looking for it without success in used bookstores.  (And has anyone put

it on the Web?)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Henriette Kress <HeK@HETTA.PP.FI>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:41:28 GMT

--------

On Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:24:48 EST, Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM> wrote

to HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR:



>Eric-

>

>You said >>According to Mrs. M. Grieve in her book 'A Modern Herbal'

>published in 1931, ...

>

>Does anyone know how to get a copy of this book or its text?  I have been

>looking for it without success in used bookstores.  (And has anyone put

>it on the Web?)



Quoting from the book entry of the medicinal herbfaq:



quote



   * Maude Grieve: A Modern Herbal, in two volumes. (You need them both.)

     1931, reprinted in 1971, Dover Publications, Inc., 180 Varick Street,

     New York, N.Y. 10014, USA.

     ISBN 0-486-22798-7 (I), 0-486-22799-5 (II), listprice USD 9.95 each.

     A good all-round book as a reference; it has so much information on so

     many plants that it's not really outdated yet. 866 pages + index...



It's on the WWW too, scanned and OCR'd in full by Ed Greenwood:

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.html



unquote



Most of the bookstores on the web carry it, too, if you want to have it handy

without having to open the computer.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Peter Gail <PETERGAIL@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:47:46 -0500

--------

A Modern Herbal by Maude Grieve, published in 2 volumes, has been reprinted

by Dover Publications in New York, and as far as I know is still in print.

 The last Dover catalog I received still showed it. Go to your bookstore and

have them look for it in Books in Print, or ask the bookstore or library to

give you their address and write them for a catalog of their books about

medical botany.



Peter Gail





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Kim Scott <kscott@QUICKLNK.QUICKLINK.NET>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 07:54:05 -0600

--------

Eric -



I purchased a copy (which happens to be two volumes, paperback) through a

warehouse that supplies books to libraries, schools, bookstores, etc.  I am

sure if you inquire at one of the large bookstores, they should be able to

order you one.  I bought mine about a year ago.  I think they just reprinted

it not too long ago.  Sorry, I don't remember what I paid for it (I purchase

mucho books on botanical and other areas).



Kim



 At 08:24 PM 1/3/97 EST, you wrote:

>Eric-

>

>You said >>According to Mrs. M. Grieve in her book 'A Modern Herbal'

>published in 1931, ...

>

>Does anyone know how to get a copy of this book or its text?  I have been

>looking for it without success in used bookstores.  (And has anyone put

>it on the Web?)

>

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:12:49 -0900

--------

At 08:24 PM 1/3/97 EST, Karen Vaughan wrote:

>Eric-

>

>You said >>According to Mrs. M. Grieve in her book 'A Modern Herbal'

>published in 1931, ...

>

>Does anyone know how to get a copy of this book or its text?  I have been

>looking for it without success in used bookstores.  (And has anyone put

>it on the Web?)

>

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com

>

>

It is a two volume text. I would bet you could get a copy ordered through

any reputable book store.  I've seen it at Waldenbooks and Border books.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: "M. Pacord" <Mpacord@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:46:11 -0500

--------

This book is also available as a single volume from Barnes and Noble, and can

be found on-line at

     http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.html





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: "LaVonne M. Davis-Schenck" <lavds@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 23:00:12 EST

--------

On Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:24:48 EST Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

writes:

-

>You said >>According to Mrs. M. Grieve in her book 'A Modern Herbal'

>published in 1931, ...

>

>Does anyone know how to get a copy of this book or its text?  I have

>been looking for it without success in used bookstores.  (And has

>anyone put it on the Web?)



   Dear Karen,



   It's amazing how we run across things sometimes....Just yesterday I

received a new Barnes and Noble catalog, and what do you think was one of

the books featured on the cover? :>



  Anyway, you can order by phone from Barnes and Noble at 1-800-THEBOOK

(843-2665), 24/7.  Its stock number is 1799014, price is $14.98.

Shipping on an order of any size is $4.95, so if you have a Barnes and

Noble near you, it might be worth getting it through them.  In the

catalog, it says "Only from Barnes and Noble".  I would take that to mean

that they now hold the copyright, and putting it up on the Web might not

be a very good idea.



  Good luck,

  LaVonne <lavds@juno.com>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Henriette Kress <HeK@HETTA.PP.FI>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:57:20 GMT

--------

On Sun, 5 Jan 1997 23:00:12 EST, "LaVonne M. Davis-Schenck" <lavds@JUNO.COM>

wrote to HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR:



>  Anyway, you can order by phone from Barnes and Noble at 1-800-THEBOOK

>(843-2665), 24/7.  Its stock number is 1799014, price is $14.98.

>Shipping on an order of any size is $4.95, so if you have a Barnes and

>Noble near you, it might be worth getting it through them.  In the

>catalog, it says "Only from Barnes and Noble".  I would take that to mean

>that they now hold the copyright, and putting it up on the Web might not

>be a very good idea.



The copyright expired ages ago, which is when Dover made the reprint. Note that

the only thing copyrighted in the Dover edition is the revised latin-name

index...

That 'Only from Barnes and Noble' is clearly a try to corner the market for

something which is as free-for-all as Culpeper.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Tina Bloom <Frumble@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 02:34:41 -0500

--------

Hi all--wanted to post an addendum to my earlier note about the Abundant Life

Seeds catalog--just noticed that they also carry the herbal encyclopedia

written by Mrs. Grieve.  I'll post the address again:

Abundant Life Seed Foundation Catalog

#22, Annual Catalog

930 Lawrence Street

P.O. Box 772 (mailing)

Port Townsend, WA  98368

Phone (360_ 385-5660

fax (360) 385-7455



Sincerely, TLB





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: "LaVonne M. Davis-Schenck" <lavds@JUNO.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:13:03 EST

--------

>The copyright expired ages ago, which is when Dover made the reprint.



>Note that the only thing copyrighted in the Dover edition is the

>revised latin-name index...

>That 'Only from Barnes and Noble' is clearly a try to corner the

>market for something which is as free-for-all as Culpeper.

>

>Henriette



   Dear Henriette,



   I'd never seen nor heard of the Dover edition before I got about a

gazillion posts mentioning it in yesterday's mail.  :>  However,  you did

give me something to think about, and I think I've figured it out.  The

B&N edition is a single volume of 921 pages.  All the others listed

mentioned two volumes.  Could that explain the "only from..." ?



 Happy herbing,

    LaVonne





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Graham White <hendongreen@GN.APC.ORG>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:11:15 GMT

--------

Or the British hardback version (one volume) published 1994 by Tiger Books

International, London. ISBN 1-85501-249-9.





>On Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:24:48 EST, Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM> wrote

>to HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR:

>

>>Eric-

>>

>>You said >>According to Mrs. M. Grieve in her book 'A Modern Herbal'

>>published in 1931, ...

>>

>>Does anyone know how to get a copy of this book or its text?  I have been

>>looking for it without success in used bookstores.  (And has anyone put

>>it on the Web?)

>

>Quoting from the book entry of the medicinal herbfaq:

>

>quote

>

>   * Maude Grieve: A Modern Herbal, in two volumes. (You need them both.)

>     1931, reprinted in 1971, Dover Publications, Inc., 180 Varick Street,

>     New York, N.Y. 10014, USA.

>     ISBN 0-486-22798-7 (I), 0-486-22799-5 (II), listprice USD 9.95 each.

>     A good all-round book as a reference; it has so much information on so

>     many plants that it's not really outdated yet. 866 pages + index...

>

>It's on the WWW too, scanned and OCR'd in full by Ed Greenwood:

>http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.html







Graham White

------------



hendongreen@gn.apc.org

gw035@mdx.ac.uk





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mrs. Grieve

From: Michael Bailes <frgntgar@FASTLINK.COM.AU>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:45:06 +1100

--------

Penquin also do  a paperback one volume with index.

Best value is the hardback at the moment. The following from The Fragrant

Garden Newsletter 8 may be of interest

Classic herb books.

Maude Grieve's

 "A Modern Herbal"

There are some herb books that will go on forever.  Such a one is Maude

Grieve's, A Modern Herbal.. It is an encyclopedic reference that is a must

for anyone interested in plants and herbs.  Over the years since it was

printed we have analysed herbs with our increasingly sophisticated

technology and the list of their constituents has grown longer every year.

You wonder however whether this analysis has really told us any more than

Mrs. Grieve wrote at the beginning of this century.  A Modern Herbal  has

one of the best sections on lavender and the commercial growing thereof.

It still is my first reference when I go searching for information on some

obscure "new" herb.  It  is still as relevant, as fresh and interesting as

when it was first written.

 Maude Grieve went to India as a young bride and on her husband's

retirement, returned to England to one and a half acres of garden which she

simply "crammed" with plants.  She supplied herbs to a manufacturing

chemist but it was not until the outbreak of WW1 that England urgently

needed supplies of those medicinal herbs that had been previously imported

from Germany and other parts of Europe.  Maude was asked to train herb

cultivators; she conducted identification classes, set up massive drying

sheds, opened up extra gardens, visited museums and libraries, researched

and wrote a whole series of individual pamphlets which form the basis of

her remarkable books.  This artistic, kind and very feminine lady who loved

jewellery and who owned over 50 pairs of pretty, coloured, handmade suede

boots had written the closest thing to a herbal encyclopedia we now have.

Very little comes close to its scope, range and detail. Malcolm Stewart's

book "Encyclopedia of Herbs and Herbalism ($29,95 from bookshop)  comes to

mind as the next best thing especially with its many colour photos.  But

while Stuart's chemical analysis is a bit more modern, his work on the

plants is not as detailed.

A Modern Herbal  is available in paperback, softcover and hardback.  I have

already demolished one paperback over the years I have used it as a

reference. I am onto my second copy but I think my next investment will be

a hardback copy.  Like a much thumbed and loved cookbook, a hardback will

last the distance.

Two Volume softcover $29.95

Paperback $35.95

Hardcover $24.95





Michael Bailes

The Fragrant Garden

Portsmouth Road

Erina. N.S.W. 2250

Australia.

Int fax 61 43 651979 Phone 043 677322

Next Chilli festival  8/9  March 1997

frgntgar@worldgrp.fastlink.com.au (Michael Bailes)

"I've decided to skip 'holistic.'  I don't know what it means, and I don't

want to know.

That may seem extreme, but I followed the same strategy toward 'Gestalt'

and 'The Twist,' and lived to tell the tale."

Calvin Trillin











==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Your herb post

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 00:47:38 EST

--------

Hi Chetera,

What a beautiful name you have!



>For example, I have some stevia -- but have no idea how to use it.  I

>got it

>for myself -- it was suggested as a safe sweetener for me, with non

>insulin

>dependent diabetes.



Well, so far have  heard  good things about stevia and stabilizing blood

sugar.. it's certainly worth a try. Watch your levels and start with

small amounts.



 > How did you make the garlic tea?



I make hot garlic lemonade with chopped garlic, 2 fresh lemons and a

little stevia- pour one quart of boiling water and drink when cool.

Nothing fancy.



> How much stevia?



About 1/4 teaspoon(?) (I just kind of throw a pinch in!)



> Do you ever bake with stevia?



You can use stevia in baking - experiment and see what tastes right for

you - a little goes a long way.



>Do you ever use cayenne in preparations for your children?  How much?



I'm not crazy about  cayenne...it's rather heroic.



>What is your BEST herb treatment?



Hmm- that's a tough one- since skin problems are the most common thing

needing treatment around here, the salve gets used almost on a daily

basis.



>  Any books you suggest?



Well, there are some great authors right on this list!  (Anita? are you

published yet? : ) )





Let me know how you like the stevia!



 Kim in VA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Depression and St. John's Worth

From: JESUS FREAK <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:58:17 -0600

--------

After several years, practically my whole life, of experiencing

depression, I went on Paxil just 2 years ago.  It worked wonderfully

and except for some weight gain, there was not too many side effects.

However, i wanted to try something natural so I switched to St. John's.

Wort.  Before this I tried weening myself off Paxil and I became pretty

depressed again.  When I switched to SJW, I started taking 2 SJW and

cutting down my Paxil in half each day.  After a month of the SJW

building up in my system I took my Paxil off completely and now take

4 SJW tablets a day.  Things are great!  Not better, not worse, than

on Paxil but now it is natural and I don't have the insomnia or weight

gain.  Hopefully  I will lose weight again.  So it does work.  However,

I am taking quite a bit and when I cut down on SJW any I start to get

depressed a bit.



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Depression and St. John's Worth

From: Patricia Haag <PHaag80090@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:55:36 -0500

--------

Hi everyone, where can I get St. John's Wort? Is it available in health food

stores?

I would like to try it. I stopped taking Prozac in May because I was having

nasty side effects. My doctor is all too happy to let me try something else,

too happy.. I am tired of struggling with myself over this. If I could find

an herbal remedy, it would certainly be worth it to me. I would much rather

try that first. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Depression and St. John's Worth

From: Linda K Shipley <lindashipley@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:56:23 EST

--------

I was on prozac and got off.  Have you heard of Phyto-Proz or kava kava?

Linda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Depression and St. John's Worth

From: Paul & Kathy Sedler <smeherbs@MAKO.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 21:28:33 -0800

--------

At 11:55 AM 1/5/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi everyone, where can I get St. John's Wort? Is it available in health food

>stores?

>I would like to try it. I stopped taking Prozac in May because I was having

>nasty side effects. My doctor is all too happy to let me try something else,

>too happy.. I am tired of struggling with myself over this. If I could find

>an herbal remedy, it would certainly be worth it to me. I would much rather

>try that first. Any assistance would be appreciated.

>Thanks,

>Pat



Pat,

I use St. John's Wort in the form of fresh plant tincture which seems to be

much more effective than capsules/etc.  I believe it was Michael Moore who

has written extensively about this herb losing potency very rapidly after

being picked, and virtually ineffective in the dried state.    The flowering

tops are used and are available around July.  It can take up to several

weeks to see noticeable effects in cases of mild to moderate depression.  I

take 4-6 dropperfuls of potent tincture I made daily. (I also use it for

it's nervine properties.)

As an aside, given the fact that this wonderful plant is being

systematically destroyed in California, I planted some in my yard for just

this reason.  (It is most difficult to find here!)

So, look for any tinctures made from the fresh flowering tops only for the

highest potency IMHO.

Kathy in Ca.

Kathy McQuade-Sedler



Sedler's Mother Earth Herbs - 5272-A West Gold Ct., Beale AFB, CA  95903

916-788-0138 ***** email SMEHerbs@mako.com

FAX 916-788-0849 (not dedicated line)

(All appropriate disclaimers apply.)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Herbs

From: Thomas Cornick <BeeCrofter@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:30:43 -0500

--------

  If anyone on this list server is still interested in discussing herbs.

I would be curious to know what folks are growing.

Here I have Anise Hyssop, Lavender , Mint, Monarda,Elder,Tarragon,Orregano

Leeks,Asparagus,Red Clover,Teasel,Mullein,Horseradish,Raspberry





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Jo Ann A Kyle <jo45@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:02:27 EST

--------

04, January 1997

Hi Thomas,



Yes,  Although not very knowledgeable about herbs I would like to discuss

them, learn more about them and how to use them.  I  enjoy growing a

variety of herbs.  Last summer I had the following: Thyme, Peppermint,

Mountain Mint, Tansy, Anise Hyssop,  Lemon Balm, Hyssop, English

Lavender, Cuban Sage,   Basil, Purple Basil,  Monarda, Rosemary, and many

others I can't remember at the moment.  I grow them for my own enjoyment.

 When searching for peace and serenity I love to run my hands through the

leaves so they release their essence into the air and on my hands.  It

relaxes me and fills me with a sense of fulfulment.  Occasionally I use

some for seasoning and teas.   I'm always looking for new, different and

unusual varieties.  Most of the herbs I plant I buy as seedlings from the

local Farmers Market.  I have tried several times to start them from seed

but don't have the best of luck.  I'd be interested in any secrets to

germinating the seeds.



Jo Kyle         E-Mail  Jo45@Juno.com     or jokyle@aol.com





On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:30:43 -0500 Thomas Cornick <BeeCrofter@AOL.COM>

writes:

>  If anyone on this list server is still interested in discussing

>herbs.

>I would be curious to know what folks are growing.

>Here I have Anise Hyssop, Lavender , Mint,

>Monarda,Elder,Tarragon,Orregano

>Leeks,Asparagus,Red Clover,Teasel,Mullein,Horseradish,Raspberry

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:37:16 EST

--------

What a nice thing to list in the dead of winter....I am growing lemon

balm, echinicea, onion chives, garlic, elephant garlic, feverfew,

artemesia annua, liatris, wild ginger (asarum), bloodroot, garlic

mustard, roses, smartweed, parsley, pennyroyal, peppermint, chocolate

mint, xylityl (unless it just died), lavender (several types), monarda,

gingko, Dutch clover, dewberry, steeplebrush, blueberry, rasberry,

marjoram and oxalis, I find mugwort, Mexican bamboo (although we call it

Brooklyn bamboo), pokeweed, several varieties of smartweed, ground ivy,

garlic mustard, lambs quarters, several mushroom varieties, white pine,

sassafras, goutweed and garlic chives growing wild in nearby Prospect

Park.



And I should probably decant the white pine vinegar, lavender honey and

oat  and mugwort tinctures...



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:30:43 -0500 Thomas Cornick <BeeCrofter@AOL.COM>

writes:

>  If anyone on this list server is still interested in discussing

>herbs.

>I would be curious to know what folks are growing.

>Here I have Anise Hyssop, Lavender , Mint,

>Monarda,Elder,Tarragon,Orregano

>Leeks,Asparagus,Red Clover,Teasel,Mullein,Horseradish,Raspberry

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: "Heather St. Giles" <Heather@BAYSYSCG.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:42:13 -0800

--------

I am familiar with the other herbs in your garden, but what is Teasel?

What is your climate?





>From:  Thomas Cornick[SMTP:BeeCrofter@AOL.COM]

>Sent:  Saturday, January 04, 1997 8:30 AM

>If anyone on this list server is still interested in discussing herbs.

>I would be curious to know what folks are growing.

>Here I have Anise Hyssop, Lavender , Mint, Monarda,Elder,Tarragon,Orregano

>Leeks,Asparagus,Red Clover,Teasel,Mullein,Horseradish,Raspberry

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Thomas Cornick <BeeCrofter@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 07:42:19 -0500

--------

   Climate here is Temperate about 185 days without frost.Teasel is a type of

thistle that was once used to raise the nap on wool  . I grow it primarily to

encourage butterflies and bumblebees and finches to visit my garden.

   Scientific name is Dipsacus  a reference to thirst as the leaves are

cupped around the stems and hold water.

    The plant can become quite a pesty weed and if you look along the

highways around  Corning NY and by the Key Bridge near washington DC you can

see it growing along the roadside.

Tom





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Robin Dorey Deerfield Academy-library <rdorey@K12.OIT.UMASS.EDU>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:03:25 -0500

--------

Hi Tom,



Teasel grew wild around our place in Syracuse and I missed it so I planted

it in my yard here in western Mass.  I love the lavendar rings of blossoms

and the bumble bees love it.  Are you around Corning, NY?  Robin Dorey in

zone 5.



>

>   Climate here is Temperate about 185 days without frost.Teasel is a type of

>thistle that was once used to raise the nap on wool  . I grow it primarily to

>encourage butterflies and bumblebees and finches to visit my garden.

>   Scientific name is Dipsacus  a reference to thirst as the leaves are

>cupped around the stems and hold water.

>    The plant can become quite a pesty weed and if you look along the

>highways around  Corning NY and by the Key Bridge near washington DC you can

>see it growing along the roadside.

>Tom

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Thomas Cornick <BeeCrofter@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 21:22:19 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-06 20:08:00 EST, you write:



<<

 Hi Tom,



 Teasel grew wild around our place in Syracuse and I missed it so I planted

 it in my yard here in western Mass.  I love the lavendar rings of blossoms

 and the bumble bees love it.  Are you around Corning, NY?  Robin Dorey in

 zone 5. >>

Hi Robin ,  actually I am in New London CT  but when I go visiting I keep a

sharp eye out at the roadside weeds .  Since becoming a beekeeper one never

quite looks at flowers the same way.  Funny thing is you can go nuts trying

to identify some of the most common weeds/native plants.

  I guess they tend to fall beneath notice of most authors.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:08:58 EST

--------

I found learning the native grasses to be the most trying.  They're left

out of most of the guidebooks and the only grass guide I could find had

delicate line drawings that barely differed from each other.



Between the medicinal/edible/wildflower and fungi guides most of the

other plants were covered.  It makes me wonder if there _are_ any plants

that don't have medicinal/food or other uses.  The more I learn, the

fewer plants escape notice.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com



>  Since becoming a beekeeper one never quite looks at flowers the

>same way.  Funny thing is you can go nuts trying

>to identify some of the most common weeds/native plants.

>  I guess they tend to fall beneath notice of most authors.

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 01:09:35 +0000

--------

> I found learning the native grasses to be the most trying.  They're left

> out of most of the guidebooks and the only grass guide I could find had

> delicate line drawings that barely differed from each other.



Identifying grasses can be tricky to learn at first.



>

> Between the medicinal/edible/wildflower and fungi guides most of the

> other plants were covered.  It makes me wonder if there _are_ any plants

> that don't have medicinal/food or other uses.  The more I learn, the

> fewer plants escape notice.



That is the danger of studying only useful plants. Nearly twenty

years ago, when I first started showing people plants, before I even

started teaching for money, I showed a friend around a field for a

couple hours pointing out edibles and medicinals. At the end, she

said, " I feel like I could just eat everything!" This freaked me

out, because there were just as many poisons, or unknowns, and it is

EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to eat any plant that is not positively

identified. So I showed her around again, this time telling her what

not to eat. Then she understod that there is much to learn before

harvesting and using wild plants.



BTW, for MOST of the plant species on earth we know absolutely

nothing concerning constituents, or uses. We have only their

names.There are many more unknowns worldwide than knowns.



These plants may have uses, we just don't know them.



Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



"I hope that's Valerian I smell!"





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:39:01 EST

--------

Howie-



Undoubtedly many of the poisonous plants you pointed out overlapped with

the medicinal plants.



Pokeweed is my favorite plant to point out the complexity of nature: it

is edible, medicinal, dyestuff, _and_ poisonous.



I absolutely agree with your cautions.  And share your sentiment that

most plants have uses, although we don't know about them.  The best thing

we can do is to know well as many of the herbs that grow around us as is

possible.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Tue, 7 Jan 1997 01:09:35 +0000 Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

responded:

>>

>> Between the medicinal/edible/wildflower and fungi guides most of the

>> other plants were covered.  It makes me wonder if there _are_ any

>plants

>> that don't have medicinal/food or other uses.  The more I learn, the

>> fewer plants escape notice.

>

>That is the danger of studying only useful plants. Nearly twenty

>years ago, when I first started showing people plants, before I even

>started teaching for money, I showed a friend around a field for a

>couple hours pointing out edibles and medicinals. At the end, she

>said, " I feel like I could just eat everything!" This freaked me

>out, because there were just as many poisons, or unknowns, and it is

>EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to eat any plant that is not positively

>identified. So I showed her around again, this time telling her what

>not to eat. Then she understod that there is much to learn before

>harvesting and using wild plants.

>

>BTW, for MOST of the plant species on earth we know absolutely

>nothing concerning constituents, or uses. We have only their

>names.There are many more unknowns worldwide than knowns.

>

>These plants may have uses, we just don't know them.

>

>Howie Brounstein

>howieb@teleport.com

>http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html

>

>"I hope that's Valerian I smell!"

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:29:35 +0000

--------

> Undoubtedly many of the poisonous plants you pointed out overlapped with

> the medicinal plants.



The difference between medicine and poison is dosage.



> most plants have uses, although we don't know about them.  The best

>thing

> we can do is to know well as many of the herbs that grow around us as is

> possible.



And to know them all is beyond one person's capabilities. I think

that knowing a few plants well is much more valuable than knowing

a little bit about many plants, especially when it comes to medicinal

uses.



Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



-insert snappy herb joke here-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Hart Hill <greengenes@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:30:53 EST

--------

>I also have a question; does anyone know of an herbal salve or other

>treatment that would help with carpal tunnel syndrome?



>Nancy Hodinka

>Stone Mountain, GA



Nancy--try DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) as a topical treatment for carpal

tunnel pain. Also good for pimples, and other  minor swelling

problems--available at animal feed stores in large plastic bottles of

clear fluid, similar to turpentine in consistency, but used for centuries

as a horse liniment. Label will have warnings, about skin contact etc.,

but DMSO is used extensively on humans in Arizona, Oregon, amd

Mexico--even given intravenously!  If used on the hands and wrist, a

slight warmness sensation happens under the skin--as the DMSO penetrates,

latches on the excess water molecules, then evaporates. Not a cure, but

great relief for joint/digit pain, and a totally different approach from

Ben-Gay and other eucalyptus--type "heat" remedies, which merely irritate

the skin, doing nothing about the cause of it. Good Luck!

--Hart





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:07:05 EST

--------

Nancy,



 does anyone know of an herbal salve or other

>treatment that would help with carpal tunnel syndrome?>>



I'm not too sure about herbs that would be helpful for carpal tunnel, but

I do know that accupuncture has helped many people with carpal tunnel and

so far, no complaints.



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:54:25 -0900

--------

>I also have a question; does anyone know of an herbal salve or other

>treatment that would help with carpal tunnel syndrome?

>

>Nancy Hodinka

>Stone Mountain, GA

>

>

I have used the old Mullein compress with success on this condition.  If you

didn't get the recipe from my recent posting, I'd be happy to e-mail it to

you. Just give me an electronic note.  Also, alternating iceing and heating

is helpful.  Just freeze some water in a paper cup and move it over the area

until it is quite numb.  This can be initially painful but keep going until

it is very cold.  After the area has returned to normal temperature, apply

moist heat.  Simple but effective and cheap to do.  I got this idea from my

physical therapist.  Supplementing with calcium, magnesium, vitamin C, E, A

and selenium. Is also helpful.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:54:34 -0900

--------

At 05:30 PM 1/12/97 EST, Hart Hill wrote:

>>I also have a question; does anyone know of an herbal salve or other

>>treatment that would help with carpal tunnel syndrome?

>

>>Nancy Hodinka

>>Stone Mountain, GA

>

>Nancy--try DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) as a topical treatment for carpal

>tunnel pain. Also good for pimples, and other  minor swelling

>problems--available at animal feed stores in large plastic bottles of

>clear fluid, similar to turpentine in consistency, but used for centuries

>as a horse liniment. Label will have warnings, about skin contact etc.,

>but DMSO is used extensively on humans in Arizona, Oregon, amd

>Mexico--even given intravenously!  If used on the hands and wrist, a

>slight warmness sensation happens under the skin--as the DMSO penetrates,

>latches on the excess water molecules, then evaporates. Not a cure, but

>great relief for joint/digit pain, and a totally different approach from

>Ben-Gay and other eucalyptus--type "heat" remedies, which merely irritate

>the skin, doing nothing about the cause of it. Good Luck!

>--Hart

>

>

Living here in timber country, we have had a good source of cheap DMSO.  It

is a by product of timber pulp production.  Knowing the noxious chemicals

used to reduce a tree to pulp, it scares me alot that people are using this

chemical.  It seems to be a powerful penetrant.  If you apply it on top of

another topical remedy, it "pushes" that substance into the body.  I prefer

to stick with other remedies.  I read a Reader's Digest article a few years

ago about a woman who was admitted to an emergency room emanating noxious

odors that made everyone around her sick and dizzy.  It was tentatively

concluded that she had been using DMSO and some other remedy for arthritis

and it reacted in her body to produce a poison gas which eventually killed

her.  This is extremely rare.  I believe the article mentioned only two

cases ever.  I can't remember exactly.  But in light of this and knowing

what goes on in a pulp mill, I can't bring myself to use DMSO.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:01:44 -0800

--------

At 02:54 PM 1/14/97 -0900, Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET> wrote:



>At 05:30 PM 1/12/97 EST, Hart Hill wrote:

>>>I also have a question; does anyone know of an herbal salve or other

>>>treatment that would help with carpal tunnel syndrome?

>>

>>>Nancy Hodinka

>>>Stone Mountain, GA

>>

>>Nancy--try DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) as a topical treatment for carpal

>>tunnel pain. Also good for pimples, and other  minor swelling

>>problems--available at animal feed stores in large plastic bottles of

>>clear fluid, similar to turpentine in consistency, but used for centuries

>>as a horse liniment. Label will have warnings, about skin contact etc.,

>>but DMSO is used extensively on humans in Arizona, Oregon, amd

>>Mexico--even given intravenously!  If used on the hands and wrist, a

>>slight warmness sensation happens under the skin--as the DMSO penetrates,

>>latches on the excess water molecules, then evaporates. Not a cure, but

>>great relief for joint/digit pain, and a totally different approach from

>>Ben-Gay and other eucalyptus--type "heat" remedies, which merely irritate

>>the skin, doing nothing about the cause of it. Good Luck!

>>--Hart

>>

>>

>Living here in timber country, we have had a good source of cheap DMSO.  It

>is a by product of timber pulp production.  Knowing the noxious chemicals

>used to reduce a tree to pulp, it scares me alot that people are using this

>chemical.  It seems to be a powerful penetrant.  If you apply it on top of

>another topical remedy, it "pushes" that substance into the body.  I prefer

>to stick with other remedies.  I read a Reader's Digest article a few years

>ago about a woman who was admitted to an emergency room emanating noxious

>odors that made everyone around her sick and dizzy.  It was tentatively

>concluded that she had been using DMSO and some other remedy for arthritis

>and it reacted in her body to produce a poison gas which eventually killed

>her.  This is extremely rare.  I believe the article mentioned only two

>cases ever.  I can't remember exactly.  But in light of this and knowing

>what goes on in a pulp mill, I can't bring myself to use DMSO.

>**********************************************************************

>* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

>*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

>*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

>* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

>**********************************************************************

>* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

>**********************************************************************

>

Ditto, Anita.  DMSO is scary........and I'd never use it, either!  Herbs

work without any help from chemicals if used properly.





Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs

From: JAN BLOOM <LHKF55C@PRODIGY.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 16:40:09 -0500

--------

Where in Fla. do you live. I am in Tampa.  We have an herb society

here where you can learn a lot about herbs. Most herbs will grow here.

.. It's just a matter of adjusting the seasons.  Jan





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cholesterol Level and garlic

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:32:43 EST

--------

If you want to bring down your cholesterol, eat two raw garlic cloves per

day.  The easiest way to eat them is to mince the clove in place, coat

with honey and swallow, with a large chaser of water.  Most garlic

supplements lack something significant and many components of garlic are

not stable enough to survive manufacture.  Allicin is not the only active

component, although several companies measure it as a proxy for their

purity.  I take garlic for respiratory illness and have found no

supplement at all which works, but the fresh garlic does.  It is my

understanding that capsules and Kyolic are somewhat more useful for heart

conditions than respiratory conditions however.  One manufacturer

encapsulates a different form of the garlic within its allicin-stabilized

exterior:  read the labels.



If you live in North America, there is a form of wild mustard called

Garlic mustard which grows widely as a weed.  It is delicious raw or

cooked like spinach and also contains several of garllic's

anticholesterol components.





Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 07:30:56 -0500 Bruce Mencer <BMencer@AOL.COM> writes:

>In a message dated 97-01-04 06:09:10 EST, you write:

>

><< If you take two

> capsules of pure garlic oil at day the cholesterol level decrease

> significantly. >>

>Carlos,

>  I need something to bring down my cholesterol.  Does this garlic oil

>really

>work?  And how much is "significantly"?  Are there some forms/brands

>that are

>better ?

>Thanks for any info.

>

>Bruce

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cholesterol Level and garlic

From: Henriette Kress <HeK@HETTA.PP.FI>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:14:58 GMT

--------

On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:32:43 EST, Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM> wrote

to HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR:



>If you live in North America, there is a form of wild mustard called

>Garlic mustard which grows widely as a weed.  It is delicious raw or

>cooked like spinach and also contains several of garllic's

>anticholesterol components.



You mean Alliaria petiolata (former A.officinalis)? That grows over here (in

northern Europe), too. Abundantly. Only thing is, it's flowers early in spring

(that's end May/beg.June over here), so you can't pick it after end June or so.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Pennyroyal

From: "Kathy Atchley. User" <KLAtchley@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:13:49 -0500

--------

I've been wanting to grow Pennyroyal for some time.  The problem is I can't

find a plant or seeds at any of the nurseries in my area. Can someone tell me

were to find this herb.



Thank you

Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Pennyroyal

From: Lyn J Slazyk <lynevaj@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:24:05 -0800

--------

You wrote:

>

>I've been wanting to grow Pennyroyal for some time.  The problem is I

can't

>find a plant or seeds at any of the nurseries in my area. Can someone

tell me

>were to find this herb.

>

Kathy--I don't know where you live that it's hard to find but it should

not be difficult to find in catalogs. I rue the day (herb pun not

intended) I first planted it. It will take over your yard and garden

but it smells terrific!



It has insect repellent properties and I've made flea collars of it for

my animals as well as scattering it in their sleeping areas. It also

deters ants and other insects. I planted it in the spaces in a stone

path but it grows well over a foot high and pulling it up is of little

use. It escaped into the lawn but mowing takes care of it and the smell

is reward enough to mow.



Beware of ingesting it as it IS toxic although would probably take a

large amount to do real damage. In years past a strong infusion was

used to cause spontaneous abortion. (Still is I'm told in some areas.)



Peace, Lyn





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Pennyroyal

From: "V. Suzanne Drake" <tanager@CRL.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:36:35 -0800

--------

Kathy;, I don't know where you live, but I find lots of it in the meadow

near where I live in northern California.  Also some came up in my front

lawn (!!??) this year.  Suzanne



On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Kathy Atchley. User wrote:



> I've been wanting to grow Pennyroyal for some time.  The problem is I can't

> find a plant or seeds at any of the nurseries in my area. Can someone tell me

> were to find this herb.

>

> Thank you

> Kathy

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Pennyroyal

From: John A <amphlett@INREACH.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 22:58:21 +0000

--------

V. Suzanne Drake wrote:

>

> Kathy;, I don't know where you live, but I find lots of it in the meadow

> near where I live in northern California.  Also some came up in my front

> lawn (!!??) this year.  Suzanne

>

> On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Kathy Atchley. User wrote:

>

> > I've been wanting to grow Pennyroyal for some time.  The problem is I can't

> > find a plant or seeds at any of the nurseries in my area. Can someone tell me

> > were to find this herb.

> >

> > Thank you

> > Kathy

> >



Suzanne:

I too have seen the yellow flowers of this in the orchards around my

town, Vacaville, in the early spring....are these the ones which are

part of the mustard species?  I always hate to see them plowed under

after they spring up each year.....but I guess it is part of the orchard

grower's thing..



John A





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Pennyroyal

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:26:10 EST

--------

John-



I think you are referring to wild mustard rather than pennyroyal.

Pennyroyal, in my experience has lavender blue flowers.  It is a mint.

We used to find it growing wild in the Sierra Nevada on backpack trips.

Now, on the east coast I find it in farmer's markets.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 22:58:21 +0000 John A <amphlett@INREACH.COM> writes:



>

>Suzanne:

>I too have seen the yellow flowers of this in the orchards around my

>town, Vacaville, in the early spring....are these the ones which are

>part of the mustard species?  I always hate to see them plowed under

>after they spring up each year.....but I guess it is part of the

>orchard

>grower's thing..

>

>John A

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Pennyroyal

From: "Kathy Atchley. User" <KLAtchley@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 09:57:54 -0500

--------

Sorry I forgot to put where I am from. I live in Madison, IL.  This is right

across the river from St. Louis, Mo. (about 2 miles).





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Pennyroyal

From: Tina Bloom <Frumble@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:39:18 -0500

--------

Hello friends- thought I'd pass on this catalog address for you; (I am not

connected in any way with this organization, other than enjoying their

catalog a great deal.)  It's the Abundant Life Seed Foundation, a nonprofit

organization.  Besides a lot of other seeds they also have around 150

varieties of herbs--many certified organic or sustainably grown.  Pennyroyal

is in there too.

The address:

Abundant Life Seed Foundation Catalog

#22, Annual Catalog

930 Lawrence Street

P.O. Box 772 (mailing)

Port Townsend, WA  98368

Phone (360_ 385-5660

fax (360) 385-7455



I'm new to this list, and to herbs in general--find it all very

interesting... I can feel myself making a paradigm shift. BTW, I am a OB

nurse, and see enough of allopathic medicine to question much of its

philosophy, especially now that I have moved from a beloved job at a

freestanding birth center to one at a large, interventionist  hospital.

 (Anyone who cares to get on a tangential discussion of this with me, feel

free to email me.)

Thanks again.

Tina Bloom





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: garlic-one man's opinion

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 22:57:24 +0100

--------

        I wouldn't be fooled by garlic capsules.(Disclaimer: unless I had no

access to the real thing). Think about it, can they really be as

efficacious as *real* garlic cloves. I don't want to sound brutal or

condemn any 'garlic capsule factory workers' to the unemployment lines but

isn't it just another essencified supposedly long life shelf item catering

to 'health food' awareness  ofttimes coupled with propaganda appealing to

paranoia about not causing classic 'garlic breath'. The down side is that

the stuff in garlic that gives off the *smell* is the very stuff that is

beneficial to the organism but the up side is that it works.

        This feels like a sure thing to me. Haven't the benefits of raw garlic

been documented to death? Any other views on this?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: garlic-one man's opinion

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:36:28 -0900

--------

At 10:57 PM 1/4/97 +0100, Eric Feingold wrote:

>        I wouldn't be fooled by garlic capsules.(Disclaimer: unless I had no

>access to the real thing). Think about it, can they really be as

>efficacious as *real* garlic cloves. I don't want to sound brutal or

>condemn any 'garlic capsule factory workers' to the unemployment lines but

>isn't it just another essencified supposedly long life shelf item catering

>to 'health food' awareness  ofttimes coupled with propaganda appealing to

>paranoia about not causing classic 'garlic breath'. The down side is that

>the stuff in garlic that gives off the *smell* is the very stuff that is

>beneficial to the organism but the up side is that it works.

>        This feels like a sure thing to me. Haven't the benefits of raw garlic

>been documented to death? Any other views on this?

>

>

There is a simple way to de-scent your garlic.  Just eat a sprig of parsley

after eating your garlic.  The clorophyll will naturally freshen your breath

and help with the garlic smell.  Some people eat so much garlic that you

can't stand to be in the same room with them.  A little parsley would help

alot, and don't take your shoes off in public.  It's really easy to make a

little garlic elixir too that rivals Kyolic.  And it's much cheaper.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: St. John's Wort

From: Jeff <jmh@RIVERVIEW.NET>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:37:24 -0500

--------

Last spring I purchased a plant I believed to be St. John's

Wort, but upon closer look at the tag discovered it was

Hypericum calycinum. I have been unable to find any references

to it in any of my herb books. Can anyone provide me with some

information on this plant? Does it have properties similar to

Hypericum perforatum?



Thanks,

Jeff Humphreys

Howard City, MI





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. John's Wort

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:54:11 -0800

--------

At 09:37 PM 1/4/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Last spring I purchased a plant I believed to be St. John's

>Wort, but upon closer look at the tag discovered it was

>Hypericum calycinum. I have been unable to find any references

>to it in any of my herb books. Can anyone provide me with some

>information on this plant? Does it have properties similar to

>Hypericum perforatum?

>

>Thanks,

>Jeff Humphreys

>Howard City, MI

>

There is a decorative plant also called St. John's Wort, much larger and

showier flowers.  H, calycinum is a dwarf sub-shub variety that does well in

dry banks in sun or semishade.  Not interchangeable, sorry.



Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Skin problems

From: "Saundra T. Gaines" <saundrag@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:52:06 EST

--------

On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 00:47:38 EST Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

writes:

 s a long way.



>>What is your BEST herb treatment?

>

>Hmm- that's a tough one- since skin problems are the most common thing

>needing treatment around here, the salve gets used almost on a daily

>basis.





*****************************************



What can you reccommend for a bad rash? The doctors  (allopathic--I can't

find anything else in southwest Texas) are stumped, and it is still

spreading.



Thanks for any help you can give,

Saundra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Skin problems

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:10:48 -0500

--------

It has been my experience that skin problems, rashes, allergies, etc. are

usually the result of food habits.



The worst skin rashes I have had experience with were with relatives whose

diet consisted mainly of simple carbohydrates, i.e. lots of sugars and

starches, and little or no fresh raw foods in the diet.  One incidence

included lots of the above along with plenty of red meats.   Those who began

restricting their consumption of simple carbohydrated (and meats), and

gradually changed over to whole grain products, and fresh fruits and

vegetables, with ocasional proteins, found their problems disappearing over

the time of a few months.  Those who continued their diets with no changes

still experience variations of their problems.



It appears from my experience, that those wishing to have better health can

achieve it, at the price of changing their life styles back toward natural

varieties of foods, and away from the synthetic, chemical feast provided by

our "modern" food industry.



Of course, as you can see - I am prejudiced toward the natural side of things

- simply because - it worked for me.  I got tired of being sick, and took the

advice of a  well meaning friend, who told me - "You fight nature, and nature

fights back".



It makes more sense to me to work with nature, rather than to fight nature,

and it is a lot less expensive on the medical bill paying side of the ledger.



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Skin problems

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:36:31 -0900

--------

At 12:52 AM 1/5/97 EST, Saundra T. Gaines wrote:

>On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 00:47:38 EST Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

>writes:

> s a long way.

>

>>>What is your BEST herb treatment?

>>

>>Hmm- that's a tough one- since skin problems are the most common thing

>>needing treatment around here, the salve gets used almost on a daily

>>basis.

>

>

>*****************************************

>

>What can you reccommend for a bad rash? The doctors  (allopathic--I can't

>find anything else in southwest Texas) are stumped, and it is still

>spreading.

>

>Thanks for any help you can give,

>Saundra

>

>

Is this rash red, bumpy, scaly, weapy, hive-ish, does it have infection, is

it itchy, hot, or what.  Please describe.  It could be a number of things.

Most rashes can be helped by taking herbs that disperse heat such as

peppermint, boneset, yarrow and others such as these.  A good place to start

would be to drink "gallons" of strong peppermint tea daily. (By "gallons" I

mean as much as you can take).  I'd also start eating one food meals to see

if there is an allergy problem.  Start by eliminating the usual possible

allergens like milk, corn, corn starch, eggs, yeast, peanut butter, sugars

and fruits.  Grains like wheat should be avoided too.  Rice is usually well

tolerated.  Eat lots of rice. A salve made from Plantago spp., aloe, yarrow

and peppermint would be good as well as using Elder flower oil topically.

Taking St. Johnswort internally and applying a salve externally would be

relaxing to tissues as well.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: endometriosis

From: Paula Baumgartner <yogt@MAIL.KIVA.NET>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 02:51:22 -0500

--------

Hello Med&Aro list,

          I had an hystorectomy 3 years ago for endometriosis (?) and my

daughter in law just had a D&C for the same.  Before she reaches such

proportions as I, does anyone have suggestions for herbal uses?



Thank you.

d

Peace,

   Paula

Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. Independent Associate

Monthly fee means extensive legal coverage throughout the US



The Perennial Conspiracy,Perennial Specialist

Nursery, Design, Sales



http://www.pplsi.com/financial.html

Gardener's Log

http://members.tripod.com/~DirtyFingernails/index.html

http://mkn.co.uk/help/extra/people/DirtyFingernails

Garden Consultant

http://www.powernet.com/freepage/Gardener

Zone 5





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: endometriosis

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:26:10 EST

--------

I know that birth control pills can exaberate endometriosis.



Hormonal foods, like eggs and dairy can exaberate it as well.  I know

several women who have had endometriosis recede after eliminating those

foods.



A combination tincture formula might include:  Echinicea, Burdock root,

Dong Quai, Dandelion, Kelp, Borrage seed, Chapparral, Licorice and a dash

of Capsicum.  Also take garlic and antioxidants.  Use dried nettles

freely in cooking along with parsley and basil.  Infuse vinegar with red

rasberry leaves and use regularly in salads and cooking as well.



If you have access to a good accupuncturist with herbal training -one who

has taken the full 2000 hour accupuncture training instead of the 200

hour MD version, I would suggest her getting a complete diagnosis.  It is

likely to be far better than self-treatment and the underlying condition

that creates the endometriosis can be addressed.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sun, 5 Jan 1997 02:51:22 -0500 Paula Baumgartner <yogt@MAIL.KIVA.NET>

writes:

>Hello Med&Aro list,

>  I had an hystorectomy 3 years ago for endometriosis (?) and my

>daughter in law just had a D&C for the same.  Before she reaches such

>proportions as I, does anyone have suggestions for herbal uses?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: Richters Herbs <owner-richters-l@GREATBASIN.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 06:12:41 -0800

--------

-----------------------  Richters HerbLetter  ------------------------

  Published by:     Richters, Canada's Herb Specialists

                    Goodwood, Ontario L0C 1A0, Canada

  Editor:           Conrad Richter <conrad@richters.com>

  Subscriptions to: majordomo@richters.com

                    - message should be (don't include square brackets;

                    but do include angle brackets):

                    SUBSCRIBE RICHTERS-L [<your email address>] [your name]

  Cancellations to: majordomo@richters.com

                    - message should be:

                    UNSUBSCRIBE RICHTERS-L [your email address]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 97/01/04

Sender: owner-richters-l@richters.com

Precedence: bulk

Reply-To: inquiry@richters.com



Contents

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.  Company Claims Kava Kava Product Not Guilty of Causing Sickness

2.  Nepal to Promote Herbal Planting in Rural Areas

3.  Zimbabwean Traditional Healers Preying on AIDS Sufferers

4.  New Herbal Treatment for Cellulite

5.  Ginger: A Year-Round Seasoning Herb with Curative Properties

------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.  Company Claims Kava Kava Product Not Guilty of Causing Sickness

------------------------------------------------------------------------

  LOS ANGELES, Jan. 2 (UPI) -- A company that makes a product based on the herb

Kava Kava says the substance does not cause the symptoms described by dozens of

people who got sick at a New Year's Eve party that provided vials of liquid

containing the herb.

  Monique Caulfield of Pacific Sensuals, who said her company did not make the

product handed out at the party, says she believes something else in the Biolife

f-X given out at the party caused the symptoms, which included coma, breathing

problems and headaches.

  Organizers of the dance party that attracted 10,000 young people to the

Olympic Auditorium handed out vials of yellow liquid labeled fX that were

confiscated after people started passing out and getting sick and police were

called.

  Thursday, police issued a statement saying that no illegal substances were

found, and "Assuming that the product is consistent with its labeling...the

'problem' ingredient is Kava Kava, an extract from the root of the kava plant

indigenous to the South Pacific Islands."

  Caulfield said the company that made the fX has said it adds crystalline

caffeine to the product. She said clinical studies by Yale University and

hundreds of years of kava usage in the Islands show it does not cause the

symptoms suffered New Year's Eve.

  She said the worst that can happen is the user falls asleep.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.  Nepal to Promote Herbal Planting in Rural Areas

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 KATHMANDU (Jan. 2) XINHUA - The Nepali government will promote the planting of

natural herbs in rural areas as a means to generate self-employment, the local

press reported today.

  Inspecting a herb production and processing company here Wednesday, Prime

Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba said that herb planting can significantly help

boost the economic status of poor rural communities in the country.

  He urged local businessmen to promote the export of herbal products, which

he said have a great potential of earning hard currencies.

  Officials of the Herbs Production and Processing Company said the company,

the first of its kind in the country, is now producing, processing and

exporting herb products worth 650,000 U.S. dollars annually.

  The company sells about two thirds of its products, including essential oils

and medicinal extracts, in the international market, they said.

  According to officials of the Forest and Soil Conservation Ministry who

accompanied Deuba on the inspection tour, the government will work out programs

and policies to make herb planting an income-generating resource for rural

people.

  They said only 10 percent of Nepal's 7,000 species of natural herbs have

been identified so far.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.  Zimbabwean Traditional Healers Preying on AIDS Sufferers

------------------------------------------------------------------------

  BULAWAYO, Zimbabwe (PANA, 01/01/97) - Riled by an increase in AIDS cure

claims by local herbalists, the Zimbabwe National Traditional dealers Association

(ZINATHA) has threatened to punish those who prescribe incest as a remedy

against the incurable disease.

  The association's president, Gordon Chavunduka, said that while members were

encouraged to research on cures for the disease, they should desist from making

public claims that could mislead the public.

  "If someone seriously believes they have a medicine that can heal they must

report to us and we will make clinical trials," he said.

  Chavunduka's statement came over the weekend after some traditional healers

who, despite warnings, continue to claims of a cure and charge exorbitant fees

to AIDS sufferers.

  He said that the ongoing clinical trials on herbal medicines, conducted by

the Ministry of Health and Child Welfare, were encouraging. He said some of the

medicines could reverse AIDS symptoms completely.

  For several years now, the Zimbabwean health ministry has authorized some

local traditional healers to help treat people living with HIV, the virus that

eventually leads to full-blown AIDS.

  Chavunduka urged the public to report healers who prescribed incest with

minors as an AIDS cure so they could be disciplined.

  Several cases of adults raping minors, including some children below the age

of four years, have been reported in Zimbabwe in recent years, reportedly after

being advised by traditional healers.

  Chavunduka said that such healers would be brought before the ZINATHA

Disciplinary Committee and the Traditional Medical Practitioners Council which

had more legal powers than ZINATHA.

  "Although we are aware of that problem, we do not have evidence, so I urge

people to report such healers to us. We want evidence from those who are

abused," said Chavunduka, who is also chairman of the council.

  Incest is taboo in African society.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

4.  New Herbal Treatment for Cellulite

------------------------------------------------------------------------

  GLASTONBURY, Conn.--(BUSINESS WIRE FEATURES)--Dec. 30, 1996-- Cellulite. It

causes women to grimace and groan, and dread shopping for bathing suits. It

also caused women to purchase more than $90 million in cellulite treatments in

1994 alone.

  For the millions of women who struggle with unsightly cellulite, a

proven-effective, all-natural solution is now available -- and just in time for

the inevitable New Year's resolutions. BioTech Corporation, a U.S.

manufacturer and distributor of herbal supplements, has introduced

Cellu-Rid(TM), a unique new combination of herbs formulated to attack the

specific components that contribute to cellulite.

  For centuries, people in the Far East and Europe have successfully used

herbs to combat, prevent or treat certain afflictions and ailments. The

science of herbology is now gaining a wide-spread following in the U.S.

  Cellulite is unmetabolized fat and waste which manifests itself with a

dimpled appearance on women's hips and thighs. The dimpled effect is caused by

the fibers of the connective tissue in the area, which lose their elasticity

with age. The overlying skin attached to these fibers then contracts. If the

size of the encased fat cells does not shrink proportionately, an overall

dimpling occurs on the surface of the skin.

  David Thorndyke, the researcher who developed Cellu-Rid(TM) in conjunction

with BioTech, notes that restricted blood flow is the cause of cellulite.

Based on the premise, Cellu-Rid(TM) herbal formation works to naturally

stimulate circulation and metabolism to increase the purging and elimination

process.

  "In studies, more than 90 percent of the women taking Cellu-Rid(TM)

experienced positive results after a two to four week period," said Greg Kelly,

president of BioTech. "Best results are achieved when used in conjunction with

a proper diet and increased exercise."

  Cellu-Rid(TM) offers a healthy, all-natural, cost effective alternative to

other cellulite treatments such as body wraps, liposuction, massage, topical

creams, and endermologie. The bottle of Cellu-Rid(TM) containing 60 capsules

is $16.99. Recommended dosage is two capsules per day.

  Herbs including cayenne and cinnamon extract in Cellu-Rid(TM)'s formulation

work to stimulate vasodilation, allowing blood to flow through the blood

vessels faster, preventing cellulite build-up and breaking down deposits.

Cellu-Rid(TM) also affects thermogenesis -- the production of heat -- helping

to speed up the metabolism. Finally, Cellu-Rid(TM) combats cellulite through

waste extraction, the removal of food and dead fat cells.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. Ginger: A Year-Round Seasoning Herb with Curative Properties

------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Dec 27, Country Living Magazine/AP --  Ginger isn't just for cookies and

spice cakes -- it's a year-round seasoning that can be used in dishes from

sauces and soups to stir-fried dishes.

  Ginger gives Chinese dishes their characteristic flavor, according to an

article in the current issue of Country Living, as well as contributing to the

spiciness of Indian curries and, when pickled, serves as a pungent compliment to

Japanese sushi.

  Ginger root -- which is technically the thick, branching underground stem, or

rhizome, of the perennial ginger plant -- can be used fresh or in its dried form

to add flavor and complexity to any number of foods.

  In addition to fresh ginger, you can also store sliced, ready-to-use ginger

in jars of sherry in the refrigerator and keep ground and crystallized ginger in

your pantry. You can buy fresh ginger in most supermarkets. Ginger also is

available dried and ground or whole, preserved in syrup, crystallized and

pickled.

  For centuries ginger has been prized for both its pungent, peppery flavor and

its curative properties. In many cultures, ginger is employed medicinally to

treat digestive disorders, soothe motion sickness, relieve congestion and reduce

arthritis inflammation.

  The herb also is the main flavoring agent used in the production of ginger

ale, ginger beer and ginger tea. Some travelers report that ingesting dried

ground ginger capsules an hour or so before traveling or nibbling on

crystallized ginger during an excursion relieves the queasiness associated with

motion sickness.

  Fresh ginger root, harvested when the plant is mature and the leaves have

died back, is cultivated commercially in such tropical locations as Hawaii,

Fiji, Brazil, Costa Rica, Honduras and China.

  In addition to mature ginger, in Asian markets you can find young fresh

ginger, or stem ginger, which is harvested when it is about 5 months old. Ground

dried ginger, crystallized ginger and other ginger products are available from

the West Indies, particularly Jamaica, as well as Australia, India and West

Africa.

  In most parts of North America, though, ginger's best chance of survival is

indoors as a houseplant. Ginger's young leaves give salads zest, while its

immature, thin-skinned roots, which are less fibrous than mature roots, can be

stir-fried and eaten as a vegetable.

  When buying fresh ginger, select smooth, firm roots. Large pieces are often

broken into lengths of different sizes.

  To use ginger, slice off just what you need from the root, then peel away the

brown outer layer and chop, grate, or slice the fibrous flesh. The peel can be

sauteed in oil to add flavor but should be discarded prior to stir-frying any

food.

  Store the whole root -- uncleaned, wrapped in a paper towel, and enclosed in

plastic wrap -- in the warmest part of the refrigerator, which usually is

located on the top shelf. An ideal temperature for ginger is 55 degrees.

  Avoid getting ginger wet, as it tends to mold.

  Pieces of peeled ginger root can be preserved in a jar of sherry, rice wine

or sake in the refrigerator. The flavorful, ginger-suffused liquor can then be

splashed into soups and sauces.

  Ginger also freezes when it is covered in plastic wrap or sealed in a plastic

bag. As with fresh ginger, cut off only what you plan to use at any given meal,

then return the root to the freezer.

  Replace ground ginger once its bite and pungent aroma have faded. Ginger's

essential oil is highly volatile, meaning it vaporizes when exposed to air. As

ground ginger ages, its flavor and oil diminish.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

  * * * * * New 1997 Edition Hot Off The Press!  * * * * *

  Richters Herb Catalogue: 103 pages, colour, over 770 herb plants,

  seeds, and dried herbs. Over 40 new herbs, including many rare Chinese

  medicinals like Dong Quai (Angelica sinensis) and Tan Shen (Salvia

  miltiorrhiza). Also Richters exclusive introduction: Orange Spice(TM)

  Thyme -- a wonderful new thyme unlike any other. Order catalogue by

  email at catalog@richters.com (include name and postal address in

  message). Or order on the Richters Web page, www.richters.com .

------------------------------------------------------------------------





RICHTERS HERBS                     | Info:                 info@richters.com

Goodwood, ON  L0C 1A0, Canada      | Catalog Requests:  catalog@richters.com

Tel +1-905-640-6677  Fax 640-6641  | Website:               www.richters.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Pennyroyal sources

From: "Nan Korman@Aol.Com" <NanKorman@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:12:49 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-04 15:38:54 EST, you write:



<< I've been wanting to grow Pennyroyal for some time.  The problem is I

can't

 find a plant or seeds at any of the nurseries in my area. Can someone tell

me

 were to find this herb.



 Thank you

 Kathy

  >>

Some sources for pennyroyal:  (I use it as a beautiful ground cover -- I

guess because I'm in zone 5 it doesn't take over.)



Burpee, seeds, $1.95, plants, 6 for $14.95.  800-888-1447

Nichol's, seeds of English pennyroyal, $1.10.   541-928-9280

Pinetree, seeds, $0.85.   207-926-3400

Fox Hollow, seeds of English pennyroyal, $1.00 or $0.65 (depending on packet

size)

Fox Hollow, seeds of American pennyroyal, $1.00   412-548-SEED



Hope this helps.



Nancy

NanKorman@aol.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: gout herbs

From: "Nan Korman@Aol.Com" <NanKorman@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:21:38 -0500

--------

I sent the following message almost a week ago and haven't seen any

responses.  Did it make it to the list?  Sorry if it's a repeat....



<I have read that several herbs may be helpful in curtailing the recurrence,

or the severity of the attacks, of gout.  The herbs I read about were:

dandelion root, alfalfa, mugwort and celery seeds.  Dosage information was

lacking and, not having a lot of knowledge on this myself, I would appreciate

any advice.  Maybe other herbs are more effective?



The doctors prescribe anti-inflammatories and medicines that limit the uric

acid in the system.  Are there herbs that can do the same effectively?



Thanks for any suggestions!>



Nancy

NanKorman@aol.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: gout herbs

From: "Hilton D. Clinton Jr" <Yahu72@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:29:00 -0500

--------

Hi all,



on 1/5/97 (earlier today)

Nancy wrote asking about herbs that are effective in limiting uric acid

production....

I have heard that a tea made from saffron is very effective as a gout

preventative..

Also it can be added to your favorite recipes......It has an almost

'butterry' taste...

See ya.......



HDC





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: gout herbs

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:45:41 -0500

--------

Someone on another list just mentioned that adding fresh, young stinging

nettle leaves to salads or making a tea from the same may help eliminate

excess uric acid. And the Prescriptions for Nutritional Healing book says Vit

C (3-5,000 mg. throughout the day), and Kelp (6 tablets per day) both help

lower uric acid.



Other useful herbs include birch, burdock, hyssop and juniper.



It additionally suggests: eat only raw fruits and veges for two weeks,

include grains, seeds and nuts, fresh or frozen cherry juice (cherries and

strawberries neutralize uric acid--eat lots of them), eat no meat, gravies,

cakes, pies, white flour, sugar.



All the best to you,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: gout herbs

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:36:40 -0900

--------

At 03:21 PM 1/5/97 -0500, Nan Korman@Aol.Com wrote:

>I sent the following message almost a week ago and haven't seen any

>responses.  Did it make it to the list?  Sorry if it's a repeat....

>

><I have read that several herbs may be helpful in curtailing the recurrence,

>or the severity of the attacks, of gout.  The herbs I read about were:

>dandelion root, alfalfa, mugwort and celery seeds.  Dosage information was

>lacking and, not having a lot of knowledge on this myself, I would appreciate

>any advice.  Maybe other herbs are more effective?

>

>The doctors prescribe anti-inflammatories and medicines that limit the uric

>acid in the system.  Are there herbs that can do the same effectively?

>

>Thanks for any suggestions!>

>

>Nancy

>NanKorman@aol.com

>

>

Use infusion of celery seed, 1 tsp ground seed to 500 ml water.  Combine

with 1 part lignum vitae to 2 parts celery seed in infusion.  Use diuretics

like yarrow and gravel root in tincture form.  Wall germander (Teucrium

chamaedrys) is also effective as a bitter, digestive tonic and diuretic.

combine with yarrow and celery seed in infusion to encourage uric acid

excretion.  Daily use of Swedish Bitters is recommended.  They can be

purchased at most health food stores.  follow directions on the label.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: JESUS FREAK <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:32:47 -0600

--------

Okay, I need some advice folks.  There is a woman in her fifties

with breast cancer.  She is having tremendous problems with hot

flashes because she is also going through menopause.  She is also

on Tamoxifen, which has side effects of menopausal symptoms, so

her hot flashes are increasingly worse, along with all her other

meopausal symptoms (such as depression, insomnia, etc).  Since she

has the history of breast cancer, she cannot take estrogen (breast

cancer often feeds off it). so they have only put her on anti-depressants.

We are looking for some herbs that can help her with these symptoms;

however, they can contain _no_ estrogen at all.  Thanks.



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:36:35 -0900

--------

At 02:32 PM 1/5/97 -0600, JESUS FREAK wrote:

>Okay, I need some advice folks.  There is a woman in her fifties

>with breast cancer.  She is having tremendous problems with hot

>flashes because she is also going through menopause.  She is also

>on Tamoxifen, which has side effects of menopausal symptoms, so

>her hot flashes are increasingly worse, along with all her other

>meopausal symptoms (such as depression, insomnia, etc).  Since she

>has the history of breast cancer, she cannot take estrogen (breast

>cancer often feeds off it). so they have only put her on anti-depressants.

>We are looking for some herbs that can help her with these symptoms;

>however, they can contain _no_ estrogen at all.  Thanks.

>

>Deana

>

>

If she has cancer, she may benefit from such alterative herbs as Burdock (#1

remedy), Red clover and the addition of lymph cleansers like Cleavers.  you

will find Burdock in many cancer remedies and I believe it is one of the

best alteratives for cancer.  It is the main ingredient of the Essiac cancer

formula. I personally know a man completely cured of bladder cancer after

the failure of chemotherapy and several surgeries.  It was his last ditch

try to save his life. He used Essiac for about a year and his last two

checkups were completely clear of cancer cells and tumors.  If there are

tumors on the breast, a person could use a Poke Root poultice to remove the

tumor.  Poke root should be used internally only under supervision of an

experienced herbalist or holistic physician, it is listed as a poison.  Dr.

Henry Nowell describes a treatment using Poke root for breast cancer.  "I

procure fresh Phytolacca root, grind fine and grind only enough for one

using.  this I roll out into a moderately thin plaster large enough to cover

the breast entirely, cutting out a hole for the nipple.  On a piece of

muslin apply this to the breast and once daily moisten this poultice with a

little Fluid extract of Phytolacca of one sixteenth strength. do this for

three days and put on a fresh poultice. In about two weeks the surface of

the breast will become covered with postular sores.  In about four weeks

from the beginning of the trteatment all the hardness will be gone from the

breast and throughout will be soft.  Then wash carefully and cover with

boric acid powder and allow the entire surface of the breast to dry and in a

week or ten days the entire surface will be healed and the entire trouble

cured. Such has been my experience."



The berries of Phytolacca are milder than the root and are what is usually

used for internal use.  Poke root is extremely powerful and should be used

with caution.  This is not one to experiment with.  Follow a practitioners

instructions to the letter.  More is not better.  It is slow in its action

like Burdock but is persistent and will effect a cleansing of lymph, blood

and tissues like nothing else.  After a cure is effected, use of this herb

should cease.  I have not had occasion to use the above mentioned cure for

the breast but apparently Dr. Nowell effected many cures with this method.



As to Hot flashes, I usually recommend Black cohosh and Chaste tree berries

(Vitex).  Vitex increases production of progesterone and balances estrogen.

It does not contain estrogen.  I'm not sure if I would use it until the

cancer is taken care of however.  Fix the cancer first, then deal with hot

flashes.  I think I would go the Essiac route and maybe supplement with a

few drops of poke berries tincture if you can find it and drink Cleavers tea

to cleanse the lymph.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Terry King <terryk@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:07:38 EST

--------

Anita wrote:

>If she has cancer, she may benefit from such alterative herbs as Burdock

(#1

>remedy), Red clover and the addition of lymph cleansers like Cleavers.

you



Red Clover contains fairly high levels of natural estrogens.



Terry     terryk@juno.com

When searching for faults use a mirror not a telescope. Unknown

If you always do what you have always done, you'll only get what you

already have.

Harry Browne, Liberatarian





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:19:11 +0000

--------

> Red Clover contains fairly high levels of natural estrogens.



Sorry, Terry. I completely disagree. Red Clovers do not contain

"natural estrogens" nor any estrogenic-like compounds in any amounts

to be of value in that way.



The whole concept of natural esrogens is an herbal can of worms.



Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



Wildcrafting is Stewardship





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: "JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D." <JoeZ6@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:23:49 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-06 19:38:59 EST, Hales1@KNN.Net  wrote:



<< she has cancer, she may benefit from such alterative herbs as Burdock (#1

 remedy), Red clover and the addition of lymph cleansers like Cleavers.  you

 will find Burdock in many cancer remedies and I believe it is one of the

 best alteratives for cancer >>

Please provide some references for those of us searching for breast cancer

treatments.  I'd sure like to learn more about studies of the efficacy of

Burdock and Red Clover.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:43:35 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-08 16:21:41 EST, you write:



> I gtuess the cancer part

>is irrelevant except that she cannot take anything with estrogen.

>I really need some help with her menopausal sympotoms ((insomnia,

>depression, etc), especially the hot flashes.  Thanks!

>

>Deana

>

>



Deana,



I wouldn't think the plant-like estrogens would be a problem, but evidently

you have checked and they are. Most hot flash remedies are in that category.

Eating more soy products or utilizing the soy capsules (Genistein by Source

Naturals is found in most health stores) is very effective, but again, I

think they contain an estrogen-like plant ingredient.



There is another alternative. Homeopathy. There are several remedies that can

help with hot flashes. If you go to a homeopathic doc. he would be able to

choose precisely the right one. Some of the remedies that can help if they

fit the symptom picture are:

Folicullinum, Sepia, lachesis & Pulsatilla. There are many others. The first

two seem to help many.



Vitamin E, D, & Calcium/Magnesium can also help. The calcium can also help

with sleep problems. You will find many herbal sleep (Nutra-Sleep, Calms

Forte) and depression (St. Johns Wort or L-Tyrosine) formulas in health

stores that should not be a contraindication.



Wishing you all the best,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Pam Edwards <Drolma@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:46:51 -0500

--------

Deana,

Have your friend include TOFU in her daily diet.  It will reduce the

symptoms of  menopause.  Very sorry to hear of your friends condition

and I wish her well.

best regards, Drolma





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:50:18 -0900

--------

At 08:23 AM 1/7/97 -0500, JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D. wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-06 19:38:59 EST, Hales1@Ktn.Net  wrote:

>

><< she has cancer, she may benefit from such alterative herbs as Burdock (#1

> remedy), Red clover and the addition of lymph cleansers like Cleavers.  you

> will find Burdock in many cancer remedies and I believe it is one of the

> best alteratives for cancer >>

>Please provide some references for those of us searching for breast cancer

>treatments.  I'd sure like to learn more about studies of the efficacy of

>Burdock and Red Clover.

>

>

Alot of my information comes from my course material from Dominion Herbal

college which is of course copyrighted material and must be paid for.  I

have more than a hundred herb books and I just pick up a little here and a

little there.  One good source is M. Grieve and another is Herbal Medicine

Past and Present vol. II--A reference guide to medicinal plants.  The latter

has extensive interviews with A. L. Tommie Bass, a famed Appalachian

herbalist who died last year.  I've also read some good information in some

journals and periodicals that my mother used to get which, unfortunately,

are gone now.  I'll be sure and forward to you any good sources I come across.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Carole Rishel <CaroleER@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:47:10 -0500

--------

Hi! I'm new.

Just my two cents worth - I've been using a yam cream for several months now.

 No estrogen - only natural progesterone.  It stopped my hot flashes from the

first day I used it.  It has many other benefits resulting from the yams and

natural progesterone.



My neighbor had a mastectomy last summer and was told by her herbalist and

doctor not to take dong quai as it contains estrogen.  BTW, there are also

environmental estrogens (plastic bags, car seats etc) that ya gotta watch out

for.



Carole Rishel





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:47:09 EST

--------

Deanna-



I just returned from Susun Weed's workshop on menopause, and several of

her comments are apt.



First, have your friend check the product insert of Tamoxifen and see if

it has damaging effects on the liver. (I just checked- it does.) Susun

said she went through a period of serious, repeating hot flashes, that

didn't seem to stop.  Taking vitex and black cohosh didn't help and she

concluded that her liver wasn't able to "deactivate" the chemicals

circulating in her blood after the flashes, so that they kept coming

back.  She took steps to nourish her liver, including dandelion in all

forms, burdock, curly (yellow) dock and milk thistle.  The hot flashes

greatly diminished.



Susun Weed's book "Breast cancer? Breast Health!" has an entire section

devoted to herbal supports for women who are taking Tamoxifen.  The liver

isn't the only area of concern.  Side effects like inflamation of the

blood veins may exacerbate the hot flashes. (Garlic; an infusion of 1/2

oz. red clover, 1/2 oz. nettle leaf and a pinch of horsetail in a quart

of boiling water, capped and left overnight, drunk daily; 1-8 drops of

pokeweed tincture (which also has anti-cancer and anti-endometriosis

effects.)]



Dandelion should play a major part in her diet.  She can eat the greens

(raw in salads or cooked like spinach, including the pot liquor), drink

the flower wine and make vinegars.  (Fill a jar with fresh greens and

some root, cover with apple cider vinegar, protect the metal top with

saran wrap, shake daily and decant after 6 weeks).  Fresh milk thistle

seed is delicious and can be ground like pepper over food or made into an

alcohol tincture.



She should probably increase phytosterols in her diet, through daily use

of beans, lentils, soy products, astralagus and red clover.  (Phytosterol

rich diets may give as much resistance to cancer as Tamoxifen, and since

most women develop resistance to Tamoxifen within 5 years, it would be a

good practice.)



When her hot flashes are more normalized, she may find herbs useful for

support.  Fenugreek tea or nettle everything, vitex, or milk thistle or

motherwort tinctures may help.  She should probably choose one and stick

with it for three months.  Vitex especially needs time to build up.  But

she may need to change them as her menopause develops.



I recommend both of Susun Weed's books, "Breast Cancer? Breast Health"

and "Menopausal Years the Wise Woman Way," although you will have to do

some translating out of "goddess-ese."  She is very well-read in the

literature, although the breast cancer book is much better at citing the

references.  Much of the information is available nowhere else.



Secondly, let your friend know that hot flashes have a purpose, although

the Tamoxifen may have pushed her into overdrive.  They tone the heart

(which often palpitates).  Suggestive studies of octogenarian women who

remembered suffering from hot flashes, concluded that they had measurably

stronger hearts than did women who did not have strong hot flashes.



Hot flashes force us to take appropriate time away from serving others to

focus on our own spiritual and bodily development.   Spiritually, God

gives us hot flashes to learn from.  If we hold anger in our hearts, the

muscles contract and the flash may be blocked, increasing the severity of

heart palpitations.  If we create mental barriers, we may get severe

headaches.  If we deal with these barriers, the flashes create

biochemical conditions that are similar to the biochemical responses of

peak religious experiences.  (Yes, both have been studdied and measured,

and I have asked Susun to mail me the references for the similarity

studies.)



Menopause is a time when we transform from a family role to a larger

social role as elder, teacher and advocate.  God gives us the transition

time to learn who we are and what our committments will be.  It isn't

always easy, but it does give us growth.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:09:20 GMT

--------

>Secondly, let your friend know that hot flashes have a purpose, although

>the Tamoxifen may have pushed her into overdrive.  They tone the heart

>(which often palpitates).  Suggestive studies of octogenarian women who

>remembered suffering from hot flashes, concluded that they had measurably

>stronger hearts than did women who did not have strong hot flashes.



All that measures is Yang constitution women, who tend toward Heat naturally.

The cart is before the horse. Another useless correlation.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: skin problems

From: JESUS FREAK <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:35:20 -0600

--------

Is it wrong to promote homeopathic medicines on this list?  I use the

homeopathic center's tablets for acne and skin rashes and it works

quite well.  Have not yet found an herb that does the same.



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Depression and St. John's Wort

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:59:48 -0500

--------

Pat,



Yes, you can get St. John's Wort at any health food store. The most effective

and potent will be a standardized extract--and you may find it in many

different combinations also. Make sure also to get adequate Vitamin B complex

and minerals. Look into your diet, stress level, exercise program and support

system. They are all important in effectively dealing with depression.



It works wonderfully well for many people. Good Luck to you.



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:24:19 -0900

--------

For a long time, I've been looking for a good simple book about botany that

would be helpful to a wildcrafter.  (Wildcrafting is collecting herbs in the

wild.)  This Christmas I was given a book called, "The Practical Botanist"

that fits the bill almost perfectly.

  It not only gives you just enough information about the physical

characteristics of plants necessary for identification, it talks about

photography, collecting, preserving and finding the plants.  8 different

habitats are covered in detail.  It is excellent for the beginner and

helpful to an intermediate wildcrafter.  It would probably be too simplified

for a professional botanist but is excellent for all the rest of us.

        "The Practical Botanist"

         "An essential field guide to studying, classifying, and collecting

plants"

        Rick Imes

        Simon and Schuster/Fireside books

        Quarto publishing

        Lib on congress #90-45450

        ISBN0-671-69306-90-671-69305-0 Pbk.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs - Growing seeds

From: "Maria T. Bohle" <FRJOBO@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:57:55 -0500

--------

Parks Seeds puts out a wonderful little book about starting herbs with Seeds.

 It will tell you what you need to know.   Be sure to start with sterilized

seed starting soil.  do not be in a hurry, germination can take some time for

many of the herbs.



Good luck.





Maria





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Juana Blanca

From: "Maria T. Bohle" <FRJOBO@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:59:25 -0500

--------

Can anyone help me to find out about a herb called Juana Blanca?  It is a

buttonweed, is grown  in Puerto Rico and is used for kidney and bladder

problems among others.





Thanks,   Maria





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Juana Blanca

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:47:16 EST

--------

Maria-



Do you have the latin name?  I can't locate it under the Spanish common

name.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:59:25 -0500 "Maria T. Bohle" <FRJOBO@AOL.COM>

writes:

>Can anyone help me to find out about a herb called Juana Blanca?  It

>is a

>buttonweed, is grown  in Puerto Rico and is used for kidney and

>bladder problems among others.

>

>

>Thanks,   Maria

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: High priced mineral water

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:47:16 EST

--------

Mud based mineral water for $38 a bottle, wholesale?!!



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com







>We sell a colloidal mineral product which has been on the market since

>the 1920's and it comes from plant material which has been buried in

>catastrophic flooding and is now somewhat left in a preserved state

>which allows it to be dug up and processed into a liquid form for

>human consumption. It too, comes from Utah. It has 72 trace minerals

>including selenium. A bottle which lasts for a month costs $38

wholesale.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Goldenseal

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:47:16 EST

--------

The standard dose is 2-4 ml tincture 3x per day.  If you are hypoglycemic

or pregnant you shouldn't take any at _all_.



But it becomes ENDANGERED in any amount.  Find a substitute, like gloden

thread.  Goldenseal is not cultivated to any appreciable extent.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:56:23 EST Linda K Shipley <lindashipley@JUNO.COM>

writes:

>Hi,

>I don't know the answer to your question but I am wondering at what

>dosage goldenseal becomes toxic?

>Linda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Goldenseal

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:38:28 -0800

--------

At 09:47 AM 1/6/97 EST, you wrote:

>The standard dose is 2-4 ml tincture 3x per day.  If you are hypoglycemic

>or pregnant you shouldn't take any at _all_.

>

>But it becomes ENDANGERED in any amount.  Find a substitute, like gloden

>thread.  Goldenseal is not cultivated to any appreciable extent.

>

berberis ( oregon grape root) is the preferred alternative to goldenseal

richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@TREARNPC.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Attending Susun Weeds Mohonk workshop?

From: creationsgarden@juno.com (Karen Vaughan)

Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 09:47:16 EST

--------

Is anyone attending Susun Weed's menopause workshop at Mohonk Mountain

house in NY State this weekend?  Would like to meet.  We also have room

for one extra female roomate.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort (& postpartum and colic)

From: "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 13:18:22 -0800

--------

Does anyone know if St. Johns would help postpartum depression?

I have one recipe for a tea: licorice root, rasberry leaf, rosemary and

skullcap.  I haven't tried it yet.  I have a mild case of the baby blues,

probably due to a traumatic labor, that my body is pretty beat up from.



Also, any remedies for colic?  I gave up all dairy (I was eating cheese) and

that seems to help a little.  The baby is 4 weeks and has shrill painful

crying between 7-10pm that is helped by walking him around. I tried the

homepathic remedy by Hylands--helps once in  while.



Thanks

Krista









At 12:00 PM 1/4/97 -0600, you wrote:

>>Hello everyone,

>>

>>

>> I'm new to this list and have been lurking about for 1 week now. I was

>>wondering if anybody has used this St. Johns Wort for anxiety and panic

>>attacks?

>>They had mentioned St. John's on TV once. I'm very tired of taking these

>>medicines Zoloft, Klonopin.

>> Has anyone tired any of the DHEA stuff? If so do you like it? I've been

>>reading

>>about DHEA. Sounds like something I'd like to try.

>>

>>Lynn

>>

>>lrausc19@email8.starnetinc.com

>********************

>

>As a matter of fact, I used St. John's Wort to relieve the anxiety

>brought on after my husband was diagnosed with cancer this last

>fall.  I had been on allopathic anti-depressants and had nearly

>gotten myself -off- of those, working toward a more holistic

>and natural approach, and I didn't want to fall backward on my

>progress, as it were, but I knew that I was having some coping

>problems.  The St. John's Wort, far more subtle but just as

>effective or more than anything from the allopathic medical

>community, helped -- sincerely.  I keep it in the cabinet for

>stressful times and just that it's there helps relieve my mind :)

>

>Theresa

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort (& postpartum and colic)

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:52:03 -0900

--------

At 01:18 PM 1/6/97 -0800, K. wrote:

>Does anyone know if St. Johns would help postpartum depression?

>I have one recipe for a tea: licorice root, rasberry leaf, rosemary and

>skullcap.  I haven't tried it yet.  I have a mild case of the baby blues,

>probably due to a traumatic labor, that my body is pretty beat up from.

>

>Also, any remedies for colic?  I gave up all dairy (I was eating cheese) and

>that seems to help a little.  The baby is 4 weeks and has shrill painful

>crying between 7-10pm that is helped by walking him around. I tried the

>homepathic remedy by Hylands--helps once in  while.

>

>Thanks

>Krista

>

>

For colic and for the depression you can drink a little cup of chamomile

tea.  If you are nursing, it is safe for the baby and will help prevent the

colic.  If  the baby has colic just spoon a little chamomile tea into the

baby's mouth or use a dropper.  He/she might even drink a little from a

bottle.  You can sweeten it mildly with a little pasteurized honey or sugar,

not too much.  Another good nervine that is good for the tummy is catnip.

You can add a little mint to these for the baby and for you too.  Mozart is

good for depression too.  It's beautiful.  These are simple, inexpensive and

effective.  They should be used more often.  Every baby should be born with

a baggie full of chamomile.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort (& postpartum and colic)

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 23:04:19 EST

--------

Krista-



This is an intuitive guess, but I don't think that St. Johnswort is the

best depression herb if you are nursing.  Lavender might be more

appropriate.  I've had some dermatitis which I believe was

oversensitivity to St. Johnswort and I would be afraid that it might go

through the milk.  Lavender is also good for depression and I suspect,

less potentially reactive.



The licorice, rasberry, rosemary and skullcap tea sounds good.



You can also try aromatherapy oils for depression:  smell them on a

hankerchief, spray them around your room, on your pillow, etc.  (Lavender

and rosemary will also have some antimicrobal action, which is always

helpful around babies.)



For colic, chammomile or catnip tea in a bottle can help.  If the baby

won't take it and you are nursing, try drinking it yourself.



Pamper yourself and try to get some help once in a while so you can get

some sleep.  Good luck.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 13:18:22 -0800 "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:

>Does anyone know if St. Johns would help postpartum depression?

>I have one recipe for a tea: licorice root, rasberry leaf, rosemary

>and

>skullcap.  I haven't tried it yet.  I have a mild case of the baby

>blues,

>probably due to a traumatic labor, that my body is pretty beat up

>from.

>

>Also, any remedies for colic?  I gave up all dairy (I was eating

>cheese) and

>that seems to help a little.  The baby is 4 weeks and has shrill

>painful

>crying between 7-10pm that is helped by walking him around. I tried

>the

>homepathic remedy by Hylands--helps once in  while.

>

>Thanks

>Krista

>

>

>

>

>At 12:00 PM 1/4/97 -0600, you wrote:

>>>Hello everyone,

>>>

>>>

>>> I'm new to this list and have been lurking about for 1 week now. I

>was

>>>wondering if anybody has used this St. Johns Wort for anxiety and

>panic

>>>attacks?

>>>They had mentioned St. John's on TV once. I'm very tired of taking

>these

>>>medicines Zoloft, Klonopin.

>>> Has anyone tired any of the DHEA stuff? If so do you like it? I've

>been

>>>reading

>>>about DHEA. Sounds like something I'd like to try.

>>>

>>>Lynn

>>>

>>>lrausc19@email8.starnetinc.com

>>********************

>>

>>As a matter of fact, I used St. John's Wort to relieve the anxiety

>>brought on after my husband was diagnosed with cancer this last

>>fall.  I had been on allopathic anti-depressants and had nearly

>>gotten myself -off- of those, working toward a more holistic

>>and natural approach, and I didn't want to fall backward on my

>>progress, as it were, but I knew that I was having some coping

>>problems.  The St. John's Wort, far more subtle but just as

>>effective or more than anything from the allopathic medical

>>community, helped -- sincerely.  I keep it in the cabinet for

>>stressful times and just that it's there helps relieve my mind :)

>>

>>Theresa

>>

>>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort (& postpartum and colic)

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 02:41:06 +0000

--------

> This is an intuitive guess, but I don't think that St. Johnswort is the

> best depression herb if you are nursing.  Lavender might be more

> appropriate.  I've had some dermatitis which I believe was

> oversensitivity to St. Johnswort and I would be afraid that it might go

> through the milk.  Lavender is also good for depression and I suspect,

> less potentially reactive.

>



I agree. Hypericum messes with neurotransmitter functions. Not

something to take when nursing, if at all possible.



Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



-insert snappy herb joke here-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort (& postpartum and colic)

From: "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:10:49 -0800

--------

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. Thanks for the advice.  My mild case of baby

blues turned out to be ppd, but my homeopathic doctor helped with a remedy.



I've been using the chamomile tea (drinking and giving some to the baby) and

it really seems to help. For me it is VERY relaxing and I have to remember

not to drink it if I need to be motivated to get up and do something!)  I

don't like the taste too much but I hesitate on the sweeteners, especially

honey because of the bacteria or whatever is in it that is supposed to be

bad for infants under 1 year.



I've never used catnip.  Mint is out because of the homeopathic remedies.



Ahhh the music... I'm one of the musically hopeless (as far as playing or

carrying a tune)  but I have found that my children love the classical

music.  Playing it for them, I have developed an appreciation.  There was a

very interesting article in "South Florida Parenting" about the I.Q.

raising/brain enhancing effects of playing classical music for the unborn

thru 2 year olds... I believe their web site is: www.sfparenting.com



Thanks again for the advice

God's Love,

Krista





>>

>For colic and for the depression you can drink a little cup of chamomile

>tea.  If you are nursing, it is safe for the baby and will help prevent the

>colic.  If  the baby has colic just spoon a little chamomile tea into the

>baby's mouth or use a dropper.  He/she might even drink a little from a

>bottle.  You can sweeten it mildly with a little pasteurized honey or sugar,

>not too much.  Another good nervine that is good for the tummy is catnip.

>You can add a little mint to these for the baby and for you too.  Mozart is

>good for depression too.  It's beautiful.  These are simple, inexpensive and

>effective.  They should be used more often.  Every baby should be born with

>a baggie full of chamomile.

>**************************************************************

>*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

>**************************************************************

>*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

>**************************************************************

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St. Johns Wort (& postpartum and colic)

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:49:38 -0900

--------

At 11:10 PM 1/21/97 -0800, K. wrote:

>Sorry I didn't reply sooner. Thanks for the advice.  My mild case of baby

>blues turned out to be ppd, but my homeopathic doctor helped with a remedy.

>

>I've been using the chamomile tea (drinking and giving some to the baby) and

>it really seems to help. For me it is VERY relaxing and I have to remember

>not to drink it if I need to be motivated to get up and do something!)  I

>don't like the taste too much but I hesitate on the sweeteners, especially

>honey because of the bacteria or whatever is in it that is supposed to be

>bad for infants under 1 year.



Raw honey is implicated in this.  If you use pasteurized honey, there is no

problem.



>

>I've never used catnip.  Mint is out because of the homeopathic remedies.

>

>Ahhh the music... I'm one of the musically hopeless (as far as playing or

>carrying a tune)  but I have found that my children love the classical

>music.  Playing it for them, I have developed an appreciation.



If you want a real treat, get a recording of "The Music of Hildegard of

Bingen". She was a 12th century nun, visionary and healer who was very

knowledgeable in herbs.  This album is wonderful.  So soothing and relaxing.

It's better than Prozac.



 There was a

>very interesting article in "South Florida Parenting" about the I.Q.

>raising/brain enhancing effects of playing classical music for the unborn

>thru 2 year olds... I believe their web site is: www.sfparenting.com

>

>Thanks again for the advice

>God's Love,

>Krista

>

>

>>>

>>For colic and for the depression you can drink a little cup of chamomile

>>tea.  If you are nursing, it is safe for the baby and will help prevent the

>>colic.  If  the baby has colic just spoon a little chamomile tea into the

>>baby's mouth or use a dropper.  He/she might even drink a little from a

>>bottle.  You can sweeten it mildly with a little pasteurized honey or sugar,

>>not too much.  Another good nervine that is good for the tummy is catnip.

>>You can add a little mint to these for the baby and for you too.  Mozart is

>>good for depression too.  It's beautiful.  These are simple, inexpensive and

>>effective.  They should be used more often.  Every baby should be born with

>>a baggie full of chamomile.

>>**************************************************************

>>*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

>>**************************************************************

>>*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

>>**************************************************************

>>

>>

>

>

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Temperatures

From: "Saundra T. Gaines" <saundrag@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 21:49:51 EST

--------

Daniela,

 your English is very good. I had seen a few of your messages before, and

I never suspected that you were not a native speaker of English.



The way to convert the temperature from Fahrenheit to Celsius (formerly

known as Centigrade)   is F=9/5C+32 where = degrees -Fahrenheit and

C=degrees-Celsius.

To go from C to F, the formula is C=5/9(F-32). Your 35 degrees =about

95F. Water boils at 212F and freezes at 32F. 70-72 is considered the most

comfortable  temperature.Here today we are at 28F, with strong, wet

winds, and the forecast is for up to 7 inches of snow tonight. This is

most unusual. Last week we were above 80. We are in southwest Texas, not

that far from Mexico, and in the northern edge of the Chihuahuan desert.

Other parts of the USA have severe winters, but we usually do not.



You wrote that you like the practice that the English mailing lists

afford you. Likewise, I would like to take advantage of a good list in

Spanish, if you could recommend one to me. My interests lie in natural

healing, Chronic Fatigue Immune Disfunction Syndrome,  Fibromyalgia,

Chronic Pain, and Bible



!Que Dios les bendiga!



Atte.,

Saundra

saundra@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Stinging Nettles]

From: Marc Fassardi <mfassard@SMINTER.COM.AR>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:11:00 -0300

--------

>Formic acid is the stinging chemical in nettle.  It dissipates with

>cooking or drying, but is present in the fresh plant.  It is a highly

>irritating substance, which gives creedance to using fresh nettles as a

>rubefacient "switch" to tre



Hi Alison,

 I read a book that states that it has been discovered

that the stinging principle is not formic acid but histamine and

acetylcholine. That's why am looking for clarification about this topic.

Buy the way, the only natural ocurring source of formic acid happened

to be red ants(formica rufa).





 Thanks,

--- Marc





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cannibis opinions wanted

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:08:58 EST

--------

On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:52:00 -0900 Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET> writes:



>While I am not totally against using Cannabis or Poppies or any other

>herb for medicinal use, I feel that adequate control is essential.  I do



>not for a minute believe it is safe for recreational use.  The terms

>"recreational" and "drugs" should never be used in the same sentence.

>  I feel the same in regard to alcohol use.  It should not be used

>recreationally.  I've never seen a truly happy drunk.



snip



>  What will happen if it is allowed to be grown commercially?

>  There's lots of questions and few simple answers.  It is NOT

>completely safe for use.  It has side effects like any other drug in

this

>category. Perhaps it should be studied and made available for persons

suffering.

> But what will be the effects of legalizing it for medicinal use.  Will

it

>increase illegal use?



During Prohibition, alcohol use went down.  So did deaths from chirossis

of the liver and alcohol-related accidents. BUT it also put vast numbers

of people on the wrong side of the law, stimulated organized crime and

engendered a disrespect for law that may have been more corrosive to the

health of society than was the expanded number or alcohol-related deaths

before prohibition.



Cannibis use would probably rise if legalized.  Like alcohol, it can be

used socially as well as abused.  I am old enough to remember people

passing around small amounts of marijuana the way people might drink

wine.  Perhaps todays potent tetraploid hybrids might be more equivalent

to straight vodka, and hence more prenicious.  Stilll, with the highest

incarceration rate in the Western world, primarily due to minor drug

arrests, I am not convinced that the effects on society would be net

worsened if cannibis were legalized.



But since only medical use is contemplated under the recent spate of

bills, I doubt that it would make much difference.  Virginia, if I am not

mistaken, has had a medical marijuana bill for 12 years or so without

massive dislocation.  If further legislation were to permit licensed

growing for medicinal uses, I think the impact would be minor.  (The

price would be kept artificially high, as with all pharmaceuticals, but

that is another story.)  After all, medical opiates are manufactured

without letting children believe that their abuse is acceptible.



But I believe that there is no doubt that cannibis has legitimate medical

uses.  It was permitted under either compassionate use or experimental

protocols until a few years ago, when Marinol was declared an effective

substitute and permission for the herb was removed.  (Note that Marinol

has the same potential for abuse if sold outside of legal channels-

psychoactive components have not been removed, contrary to public

opinion.]  However Marinol is a pharmeceutical company patent, and

somehow that makes all the difference.



I expect to see this scenario replayed with a number of the legal herbs

we now use.  Drug companies will study and patent altered forms, then get

the FDA to declare that the raw herbs have too many side effects and

restrict their sale.  This has already happened in Germany and most of

western Europe.  If John Hammel is correct, the Codex being considered

under GATT will do the same here unless we act to prevent it.



(So we herbalists won't be burned at the stake as witches, like in the

middle ages, but we may be sent to jail with the drug dealers.  And

phytochemicals will be safe for profits.)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cannibis opinions wanted

From: "O.O.A.S.I.S., Inc." <oxoasis@GNOFN.ORG>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 02:01:07 -0600

--------

To whom it may concern,



        Regarding marijuana.  I tried it as a teenager, but have renounced

it since.  I believe it tends to be an aphrodisiac especially when taken

in connection with party.  Therefore, I'm inclined to give it some blame

for lack of success in academics.  I've heard that smoking it has a

terrible impact on the lungs, perhaps worse than cigarettes.  I personally

don't like to take chances with my lungs.  I enjoy the high I get from the

oxygen I breath in the country and from spiritual life.  Give the people a

higher taste and they won't be so inclined to intoxication.



Sincerely,



Christopher J. Flores



           ________________________________________________________

              O.O.A.S.I.S., Inc. (http://www.gnofn.org/~oxoasis)

             Cruelty-free Sustainable Agriculture and Food Relief

              If possible, please add this link to your website.

           ________________________________________________________





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cannibis opinions wanted

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:50:21 -0900

--------

A I am not convinced that the effects on society would be net

>worsened if cannibis were legalized.



Maybe not, but is that a reason to make it legal.  I don't think so.  It is

an incredibly difficult substance to police because it is so easy to grow.





>

>But since only medical use is contemplated under the recent spate of

>bills, I doubt that it would make much difference.  Virginia, if I am not

>mistaken, has had a medical marijuana bill for 12 years or so without

>massive dislocation.  If further legislation were to permit licensed

>growing for medicinal uses, I think the impact would be minor.  (The

>price would be kept artificially high, as with all pharmaceuticals, but

>that is another story.)  After all, medical opiates are manufactured

>without letting children believe that their abuse is acceptible.



I would hope we could get the same attitude towards Cannabis.  It may be

more difficult because the side effects are so much different and less

insidious than opiates.  It also does not have the problem of needle

injection used for heroin which spreads AIDS.  But there is a definate

problem with the spread of infectious mononeucleosis in sharing joints.

There again, AIDS is deadly, mono is annoying.  Neither situation is acceptable.

>

>But I believe that there is no doubt that cannibis has legitimate medical

>uses.  It was permitted under either compassionate use or experimental

>protocols until a few years ago, when Marinol was declared an effective

>substitute and permission for the herb was removed.  (Note that Marinol

>has the same potential for abuse if sold outside of legal channels-

>psychoactive components have not been removed, contrary to public

>opinion.]  However Marinol is a pharmeceutical company patent, and

>somehow that makes all the difference.



Maybe that is the way it will have to be to give it the illusion of control

so as not to send the message to children that abuse of the drug is OK.



>

>I expect to see this scenario replayed with a number of the legal herbs

>we now use.  Drug companies will study and patent altered forms, then get

>the FDA to declare that the raw herbs have too many side effects and

>restrict their sale.  This has already happened in Germany and most of

>western Europe.  If John Hammel is correct, the Codex being considered

>under GATT will do the same here unless we act to prevent it.

>

>(So we herbalists won't be burned at the stake as witches, like in the

>middle ages, but we may be sent to jail with the drug dealers.  And

>phytochemicals will be safe for profits.)

>

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com

>

>



tis a great dilemma.  But the bottom line is always money.  It would be much

simpler to just make a plain old tincture or press into capsules for

consumption but you know there is no money for pharmaceuticals in that.  I

know few rich herbalists.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Hystoplasmosis

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:42:51 -0500

--------

On 12/30/96, Paula Baumgartner asked for information on "hystoplasmosis". As

a microbiologist with over 20 years experience in the "bug" business, I can

offer some basic information...



The actual term is histoplasmosis; this condition is caused by a dimorphic

fungus called "Histoplasma capsulatum". Dimorphic fungi exhibit two separate

growth phases... they grow as filamentous fungi (like the fuzzy stuff you see

on bread) at 25-30 degrees C. At higher temperatures (i.e. 37 degrees

centigrade) they are yeast-like in appearence (smooth, creamy colonies on

laboratory media). H. capsulatum is usually found in soil with a high

nitrogen content; "histo" (as we call it in the trade!) is found in

association with droppings from starlings, pigeons, chickens and bats

(warning to all you spelunkers!) The droppings raise the nitrogen content of

the soil and favor the establishment of histo. It's principle natural habitat

is along the Ohio, Mississippi, Missouri and St. Lawrence Rivers, but it can

be found just about anywhere in the US and throughout the world.



Clinical manifestations are classified according to body site (pulmonary,

extra-pulmonary - i.e. ocular, or disseminated), and can be acute, sub-acute

or chronic. Immunocompromised patients are at a higher risk for histo,

although normal, healthy individuals can also be affected if the infecting

dose is large enough. Severity of the disease is generallly related to the

inoculum size (how much of the airborn fungal material or spores are inhaled,

ingested etc.) Approximately half a million people are infected with histo

each year (from from Bailey and Scott's Diagnostic Microbiology, 9th ed.),

making it one of the most common fungal infections seen in the US.



Fungal infections are notoriously difficult to treat. Fungi have a pretty

tough cell wall, with low permeability, which makes drug delivery a problem.

Histo is usually treated by a variety of antifungal drugs including

Ketoconazole (the drug of choice for many years), amphotericin B and some

newers antifungals including Fluconazole and Itraconazole. AIDS patients are

at particular risk, and often require permanent weekly maintenance dosing of

IV amphotericin B to prevent relapse.



I'm sure Paula's friend is on one or more of these drugs already- if not she

_should_ be. I know of no natural / herbal remedy that will completely

eliminate histo once it is established. However, any herbals that promote

immune function (i.e. echinacea, golden seal) or any herbals which have an

antiseptic effect (garlic) couldn't possibly hurt, might help. Eye washes

with very dilute boric acid can also be useul, but I would run this by her

physician first... you don't want to wash away any topical medication he may

be prescribing. Histo is a serious condition, but if it is caught early and

with agressive antifungal treatment, the prognosis does not have to be grim.



Paula (and others), I hope this information has been helpful. Please keep us

posted as to your friend's progress. And, if anyone has any questions

relating to Microbiology in general, please let me know!



Best wishes,

Nancy Hodinka

Stone Mountain, GA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Looking for Recommendations - Brain tumor

From: James Reid <james.reid@MAIL.WDN.COM>

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:13:11 -0800

--------

To All:



I have only recently signed on to the list and am looking for help with

any herbs which might be useful for treatment of a brain tumor.  Also,

for herbs which may help in reversing the side effects associated with

chemo treatment.



General information:  my wife has an oligodendroglioma which was removed

in 1993 followed by radiation treatment.  All was well for three years

when the tumor has started growing again.  We are fighting it this time

with a standard chemo treatment of PCV (procarbazine, vincristine and

CCNU).  Treatment so far successful in reducing tumor by one-half.  Side

affects were ok until just recently when her blood plateletts have

dropped quite a bit.



Does anyone have any information on successful treatments of a brain

tumor and side affects of chemo treatments.



I appreciate any help you may be able to provide.



jim reid

husband of

susan oligodendroglioma 1980





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Looking for Recommendations - Brain tumor

From: Pat Cassady <AngelicMom@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:59:49 -0500

--------

Have you tried a strict MACROBIOTIC diet?  Organic vegetables, Daikkon

Radish, and broths made with these vegetables and drank a few times a day.

 The radish dissolves fats and excess body mucous.  Look in a bookstore for

 MICHIO KUCCI's

Macrobiotic Way, and other Macro diet cookbooks.  Also there is a Macrobiotic

Cancer Prevention Cookbook.  No Dairy, animal or fatty foods.  Organic brown

rice and other remedies are included in the books.  Also, there is a Kudzu

Root, like cornstarch, which is very good for nausea, mix powder with cold

water, and stir while heating. Add Drop of organic soy sauce, or ume plum to

flavor and balance the stomach acid.  This is the best diet for tumors and I

have a friend who cooks for people who are ill, particularly cancer.  One

woman is doing very well and has been on the diet for years.  Good Luck.

   Pat Cassady





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Wasn't Eisenhower really a cool President?

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:11:22 +0100

--------

        Yes, I know this is an herb forum but I would argue and *will* argue in a

subsequent post that all plants, bushes, trees, whathaveyou are medicinal

substances worthy of investigation, either for their curative or

preventative properties. (Something I thought Howie Brounstein was about to

argue in is last post.)



        Hey folks, wouldn't it be great if we had a sane national drug policy?

I'm going to go out on a limb inviting replies of all natures by suggesting

that the US Congress legalize *all* of what we call illegal drugs. Yes

folks that's heroin, marijuana, cocaine etc. I am doing this because I'd

like to be convinced by someone out there that this is *not* a practical

idea; that this idea has no merit whatsoever. I also suppose that few out

there have ever even *heard* this point of view expressed before much less

argued with proofs.

         The number one question to my mind is: why are they illegal at the

moment? Later we might ask ourselves who benefits.

        The answer must be that these are substances that cause great harm to our

society  on a national, family and of course personal level. Just look at

the way these people who use drugs behave: they cause crime graphs to jump

off the page; they rob and steal to support their habits, they kill each

other and innocents to defend dealing territories, they also harm

themselves, overdoses kill, they don't even know what they are injecting

themselves with or swallowing or sniffing since they buy what they consume

blindly. Sounds like a recipe for national disaster.

        *Prohibition always fails.*

        The 18th amendment that prohibited sale and manufacture of alcohol in the

US failed abominably.  Has anybody ever heard of the Mafia? Does anybody

wish to venture a guess how they rose to such prominence in American life?

Hasn't the same thing happened today with the drug cartels?  Do they suffer

from American drug policy as it stands today? The answer is to take a look

at their accounting books. I think 1996 was a year like any of the last few

years, a more than healthy profit. And this is after countless, endless

politically announced Wars on Drugs. It's the illegal drug policy that

keeps prices *high* for what are really basically overproduced agricultural

products. Aren't drugs as easily available as if they were being sold at

the corner store anyway?

        *Every single death* due to drug abuse can be laid at the hands of the

federal government. If heroin were legalized and regulated by government

(taxed if you like), quality control would eliminate all deaths due to

overdoses. (These generally occur when a purer than normal batch hits the

streets and people inject themselves with their usual dose). Adulteration

of drugs also causes deaths, these too would be eliminated with government

control. Street gangs would not be fighting for dealer turf when there

wouldn't *be* any dealer turf to fight about. Cheap controlled drugs at the

pharmacy would eliminate all the petty (and not so petty) crime of addicts

trying to get money for their next fix. Crime would drop dramatically. The

prisons which cost a ton of money to maintain would see their populations

halved. We have made *criminals out of people* for what are really personal

health problems on an individual level. There are literally billions and

billions of dollars to be saved from the so-called "war on drugs" not to

mention a drop in crime and muggings on the personal level.

        Where does that leave us? It leaves us with the oft repeated fears that

our society will turn into, well, I don't know what exactly. The fear is

that if the message from government changed we'd all be addicts or at least

our children. I for one give our children more credit than that. The fact

that drugs are **illegal** gives them that much *more* added excitement and

publicity. "Hey kid, do you really want to rebel and be

anti-establishment?? Then smoke, shoot, sniff this." You can't believe how

romantic it is to participate in something illegal and condemned by

society. What we will do by decriminalizing is *deromanticize* at the same

time. Doing drugs is seen by many to be *cool*. That's what has to be dealt

with. The worst part of this scenario is for our kids to experiment with

something semi-innocuous like marijuana and discover that they have been

lied to about its effects. They will then feel that if they were lied to

about marijuana then those adults out there are probably lying about all

the rest of the garbage out there for sale. It is totally normal in our

western society for our kids to want to rebel, to search for their own

particular identity, one that may *seem* to be 180 degrees from their

parents. The problem being that there exists a huge signpost out on this

particular Route 66 of rebellion that says "Hey, ya wanna rebel, this way

to the drugs".



        Hey, anyone remember Eisenhower's farewell address?  Anybody out there

remember Eisenhower?? When he left the Presidency he warned against the

threat to our society posed by the military-industrial complex. This was in

1960.  Anybody willing to posit a guess as to what sucked us into the

Vietnam War?? Well I would like to warn of the power of the anti-drug

lobbies. No telling where they will lead us in future. They have already

led us down a road strewn with death, destruction, ruined lives and wasted

national resources.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Wheatgrass = Barleygrass??

From: "JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D." <JoeZ6@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:27:35 -0500

--------

The manufacturer of the product I'm using (PINES) states that wheatgrass and

barleygrass are nutritionally identical.  Anyone know whether this is or

isn't so?  Would there be an advantage to using both? or use the

lowest-priced one? or....?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Comfrey healing too fast

From: Vickie Rickey <VV_PRSIS@SCOCA.OHIO.GOV>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:46:36 -0500

--------

I wrote several weeks ago about a friend who was getting ready for

her third hand surgery.  She was wondering about using Comfrey

internally to speed healing.  She had her surgery on Dec. 17th.  She

ate 3 comfrey leaves before surgery and a couple in the next few

days.  Something really strange happened.  In the first place her

doctor could not believe how fast her stiches could be removed.  There

is almost no scarring already on the area that was cut for the surgery.

The problem is that her therapist said she was healing too fast and that

scar tissue was forming before they could begin therapy.



Now the problem seems to be that she needs to slow the healing down.  Does

anyone know what can be done or has anyone ever experienced this?  She

told her doctor and therapist about the comfrey, but they didn't seem

to think this had any effect at all.  Who knows?



Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks

Vickie Rickey





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Comfrey healing too fast

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:18:58 -0800

--------

At 02:46 PM 1/7/97 -0500, you wrote:

>I wrote several weeks ago about a friend who was getting ready for

>her third hand surgery.  She was wondering about using Comfrey

>internally to speed healing.  She had her surgery on Dec. 17th.  She

>ate 3 comfrey leaves before surgery and a couple in the next few

>days.  Something really strange happened.  In the first place her

>doctor could not believe how fast her stiches could be removed.  There

>is almost no scarring already on the area that was cut for the surgery.

>The problem is that her therapist said she was healing too fast and that

>scar tissue was forming before they could begin therapy.

>

>Now the problem seems to be that she needs to slow the healing down.  Does

>anyone know what can be done or has anyone ever experienced this?  She

>told her doctor and therapist about the comfrey, but they didn't seem

>to think this had any effect at all.  Who knows?

>

>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

>

>Thanks

>Vickie Rickey

>





Vickie, I do not have any quick suggestions, except that I would stop the

Comfrey.  I have seen people use Comfrey as a compress too soon on open

wounds and the wounds heal before they can drain and clear infection

properly.  Hopefully, someone else on the list has better ideas for you.



Be well,



Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Comfrey healing too fast

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:29:35 +0000

--------

I haven't seen this with Comfrey, but I would believe that it is

possible with the herb, since it promotes the regranulation of skin.

I have seen a problem similar to this with goldenseal. Someone had

their wisdom teeth removed, an experience most of us either remember,

or will eventually remember. The woman gargled often with goldenseal

tincture after the removal. This seemed like the right thing to do,

as goldenseal, oregon grape, etc. is great for gum problems,

infections, and the like. Unfortunately, the goldenseal quickly

sealed the holes .... so they were closed on the outside, but not yet

healed under that. These holes needed to heal from the inside - out

..draining as they healed.



When the outside of the hole closes before the inside, I believe it's

called dry socket. It was very painful and required a longer

healing time.



So, it is possible to promote healing too much; certain types of

healing may be inappropriate.



Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



-insert snappy herb joke here-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: St.John's Wort Oil

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:07:20 +0100

--------

Here in this sierra in Spain, St.John's Wort grows wild (as well as other

useful herbs such as peppermint, oregano, horsetail, and many others). The

locals collect SJWort flowers in the spring and put them in a clear glass

jar, fill it with olive oil (from the local press) and leave it in the sun

for about a month. The oil turns a deep red and when strained off, is used

for skin problems of both people and other animals and is very healing. I

have used it on my goats' udders (as well as "Bag Balm" which is also very

good) when they are chapped or scratched. What I would like to know (Anita)

is how does one make a tincture and in what form does one injest this herb?

Also are there any other uses for the oil?

  Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: St.John's Wort Oil

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:30:07 EST

--------

Lucky you to have St. Johnswort growing wild.



To tincture, gather the flowering tips and fill a jar in the afternoon.

Pour in 100 proof vodka or other aquavit.  Lower proofs may not

successfully extract the active principles from the fresh herb.  Fill to

the top, agitate once or twice each day and top off, if the alcohol level

goes down.  Decant after 6 weeks.



Dried St. Johnswort, although sold as a tea, is not terribly effective,

as Michael Moore has pointed out.  You could probably make a fresh leaf

infusion.  The oil is good made into salves with plantain and yarrow.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:07:20 +0100 Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

writes:

>Here in this sierra in Spain, St.John's Wort grows wild (as well as

>other

>useful herbs such as peppermint, oregano, horsetail, and many others).

>The

>locals collect SJWort flowers in the spring and put them in a clear

>glass

>jar, fill it with olive oil (from the local press) and leave it in the

>sun

>for about a month. The oil turns a deep red and when strained off, is

>used

>for skin problems of both people and other animals and is very

>healing. I

>have used it on my goats' udders (as well as "Bag Balm" which is also

>very

>good) when they are chapped or scratched. What I would like to know

>(Anita)

>is how does one make a tincture and in what form does one injest this

>herb?

>Also are there any other uses for the oil?

>  Kathy

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ataxia

From: "List.  Gerald.  Gis01@A0L.Com" <GIS01@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:50:57 -0500

--------

check for Spinal stenosis.  You did not mention truncal ataxia or upper

extremity ataxia, nystagmus or cerebellar signs!  Need neuro work up - EMG

and nerve conduction velocity, MRI or spine (rule out tumor, abscess, spinal

stenosis).  GIS01@aol.com (Jerry).





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and  Shuster?/dandelion

From: Daniela Lowe <danlowe@OVERNET.COM.AR>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:48:38 -0300

--------

Hi everybody!!!

                       Hope all of you are fine.



Well this time I have several subjects that I am sure at least we can still

go on talking about herb, in my humble opinion, and as I am new, I think

that this is a changing moment of the list, may be what chinese called

"crisis" a mix of danger and opportunity.I don't agree that no herbs matters

are discussed, on sunday I read my hubby the whole info Samara gave me on

dandelions and he was astonished. I thank you for that.



Well, going to my questions, I have always suffered of low pressure, but as

years go by, it is worst, especially when the climate is too hot and humid

as it has been for the last weeks (fortunately today is raining) Is there

any herb than can regulate the pressure?, My usual is 100-60 but it drops

down too easily, fortunately, and as I allways have some salty thing around

I manage it. But I would like something more natural and less harmfull than

salt. I appreciate any suggestion.



Anita Hales posted some time ago that she founded a book called " An

essential field guide to studyng, classifyng and collecting plants" Anita,

do you know the way I could get in touch with Simon and Shuster by mail? I

would like to know if they can send me that book. I have several herbs

planted at the new house , but there are lots of them I have in the

sorroundings that I would like to recognize. Thanks .



And now a recipe: I tried a tea and it was great for my stomach:

I gathered a palmful of fresh dandelion leaves, one dondelion flower (Yellow

part only) and one Melissa officinalis leave.

I boiled everything for 5', I strained( for those who know spanish, is this

the word for "colar"?)and drunk as tea with some honey just to make it less

bitter.

It really tasted great. I know that many of you are herbs profesionals and

expertees, so please apologyse for my ignorance at herbs subjects, I quite

enjoy this list, and when I bring something up or give an opinion by no way

I mean to say I have the truth, or that I am a professional whith these

matters. But I think that there is always something new to learn, and many

times it is making mistakes how you learn.



Have a nice day!



Daniela

From a rainy Buenos Aires city.

Danielita

Buenos Aires

Argentina

AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE ESTA   @-;-'---,'---

"The sky speaks in  celestial objects; the sun, the moon, the planets and

the stars are its vocabulary" DR.E.C.Krupp





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Shingles

From: Carla Freeman <cjfreeman@MAIL.MILLIKIN.EDU>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:16:06 -0600

--------

Looking for anyhing out there on shingles?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Shingles

From: Brenda Ralston <BrendaRals@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:29:24 -0500

--------

The amino acid L-Lysine will help and has no known toxicity.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Shingles

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:32:44 EST

--------

For shingles, St. Johnswort applied tipically on lesions as well as

tincture orally 2 dropperfuls 3x / day.

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Shingles

From: Michael Bailes <frgntgar@FASTLINK.COM.AU>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:03:05 +1100

--------

>Looking for anyhing out there on shingles?

Chili and Aloe vera both help shingle pain





Michael Bailes

The Fragrant Garden

Portsmouth Road

Erina. N.S.W. 2250

Australia.

Int fax 61 43 651979 Phone 043 677322

frgntgar@worldgrp.fastlink.com.au (Michael Bailes)

Next Chilli festival March 6/7  March 1997











==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Shingles

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:43:36 EST

--------

Amanda McQuade Crawford suggested using St. Johnswort tincture on the

lesions  as well as taking it orally.  (Personally I'd rather use the

oil).



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:55:31 -0800

--------

At 02:48 AM 1/8/97 -0300, you wrote:



>Well, going to my questions, I have always suffered of low pressure, but as

>years go by, it is worst, especially when the climate is too hot and humid

>as it has been for the last weeks (fortunately today is raining) Is there

>any herb than can regulate the pressure?, My usual is 100-60 but it drops

>down too easily, fortunately, and as I allways have some salty thing around

>I manage it. But I would like something more natural and less harmfull than

>salt. I appreciate any suggestion.

>

why are you avoiding salt? salt is not harmful and is an essential nutrient.

tell us more about yourself. height, weight, other health problems etc.



richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:21:38 -0800

--------

At 09:55 AM 1/8/97 -0800, you wrote:

>At 02:48 AM 1/8/97 -0300, you wrote:

>

>>Well, going to my questions, I have always suffered of low pressure, but as

>>years go by, it is worst, especially when the climate is too hot and humid

>>as it has been for the last weeks (fortunately today is raining) Is there

>>any herb than can regulate the pressure?, My usual is 100-60 but it drops

>>down too easily, fortunately, and as I allways have some salty thing around

>>I manage it. But I would like something more natural and less harmfull than

>>salt. I appreciate any suggestion.

>>

>why are you avoiding salt? salt is not harmful and is an essential nutrient.

>tell us more about yourself. height, weight, other health problems etc.

>

>richard

>        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.

>

>Salt INCREASE the blod pressure, because retain water. In this case isn't

bad for you and like linda sed is a nutrient. There are some hebs for you,

but tell me about you heart, is O.K.?

Carlos





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:52:57 -0800

--------

At 01:21 PM 1/8/97 -0800, you wrote:



>>Salt INCREASE the blod pressure, because retain water. In this case isn't

>bad for you and like linda sed is a nutrient. There are some hebs for you,

>but tell me about you heart, is O.K.?

>Carlos

>

carlos;

where's the evidence that salt increases blood pressure?

why aren't you asking about her kidney's and adrenals? (instead of heart)



richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:47:19 -0800

--------

At 05:52 PM 1/8/97 -0800, you wrote:

>At 01:21 PM 1/8/97 -0800, you wrote:

>

>>>Salt INCREASE the blod pressure, because retain water. In this case isn't

>>bad for you and like linda sed is a nutrient. There are some hebs for you,

>>but tell me about you heart, is O.K.?

>>Carlos

>>

>carlos;

>where's the evidence that salt increases blood pressure?

>why aren't you asking about her kidney's and adrenals? (instead of heart)

>

>richard

>        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.

>

>Hello:

In my 30 years like M.D. never I found a case of low pressure with a kidnet

diss..

I don't say she is wth her heart in bad condiotion, was only an "intuition"

"experienced intuiton" cuestion.

Exesive sodium in blood Retain water. exess of "volume circulation"

increases the Heart work, and like an usual consecuence, the blood pressure

is oncreased. My inglish, is notorius, is bad, but the amswer is a

description of a complicated shisiological prosses.



Carlos.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 06:31:51 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-08 16:27:32 EST, you write:



>>why are you avoiding salt? salt is not harmful and is an essential

nutrient.

>>tell us more about yourself. height, weight, other health problems etc.

>>

>>richard

>>        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.

>>

>>Salt INCREASE the blod pressure, because retain water. In this case isn't

>bad for you and like linda sed is a nutrient. There are some hebs for you,

>but tell me about you heart, is O.K.?

>Carlos



I think that it would be very beneficial to use sea salt (one called Real

Salt is the best of the inexpensives), and if possible, Celtic Sea Salt

(expensive) as it has not been processed to death, but contains all it

original mineral support system. It has health benefits that the bleached,

over-heated, stripped, additive laden store salts do not.



Wishing you wellness,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: Daniela Lowe <danlowe@OVERNET.COM.AR>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:01:59 -0300

--------

At 17:52 8/01/97 -0800, you wrote:

>At 01:21 PM 1/8/97 -0800, you wrote:

>

>>>Salt INCREASE the blod pressure, because retain water. In this case isn't

>>bad for you and like linda sed is a nutrient. There are some hebs for you,

>>but tell me about you heart, is O.K.?

>>Carlos

>>

>carlos;

>where's the evidence that salt increases blood pressure?

>why aren't you asking about her kidney's and adrenals? (instead of heart)

>

>richard

>        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.

Strange as it seems, I am taking Nadolol (do you know that) since more than

one year, a small dose, 10 mg, but wish I don't have to take it more.

Concerning height, an weight, I am 1,60 mt. and weight 48 kgs, that is that

I am slim, but not skinny.

Thanks for answering Richard and Linda (in spanish it means bonita- pretty)

Have a nice day, and sorry for the delay, I have tons of mailing to read,

but having kids, a house and a new house that's beeing built, doesn't live

much time, and my free, I like to garden, and enjoy of the summer.

Danielita

Buenos Aires

Argentina

AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE ESTA   @-;-'---,'---

"The sky speaks in  celestial objects; the sun, the moon, the planets and

the stars are its vocabulary" DR.E.C.Krupp





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:46:50 -0800

--------

At 11:01 PM 1/9/97 -0300, you wrote:

>

>Strange as it seems, I am taking Nadolol (do you know that) since more than

>one year, a small dose, 10 mg, but wish I don't have to take it more.

>Concerning height, an weight, I am 1,60 mt. and weight 48 kgs, that is that

>I am slim, but not skinny.



so why are you taking a beta blocker??



richard

>



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:17:44 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-09 23:53:53 EST, you write:



<< so why are you taking a beta blocker??



 richard >>



Yes, why are you taking that medication (nadolol)?  It is prescribed to lower

blood pressure.  Do you have chest pains (angina)?  Was Carlos correct about

checking your cardiac functions?  Have you ever had cardiac insufficiency?

 Are you currently under the care of a health professional of some kind?



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: Daniela Lowe <danlowe@OVERNET.COM.AR>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:01:44 -0300

--------

At 00:17 10/01/97 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-09 23:53:53 EST, you write:

>

><< so why are you taking a beta blocker??

>

> richard >>

>

>Yes, why are you taking that medication (nadolol)?  It is prescribed to lower

>blood pressure.  Do you have chest pains (angina)?  Was Carlos correct about

>checking your cardiac functions?  Have you ever had cardiac insufficiency?

> Are you currently under the care of a health professional of some kind?

>

>Pat

>



Hi again;

Nadolol was prescripted to me after some Holter controls, where it was found

that in activity  (just walking, or changing clothes)I had tachicardias (too

high 178 p/m ) Even though while sleeping there were Bradichardias. 55 p/m

I am to have a rutine check soon, but up to now  no tyroyd problems, (This

was the first thing supposed)were found,  No mitral valve problems, just

some chest pains when doing efforts, but  doctors say it is not the heart,

nevertheless, I may tell, that I think there may be some tests missing. The

fact is that in this country medicine, or at least common medicine,works

like this, If you have something especific, and that doctors know well what

is it about, they suggest tests and all kind of studies, buy if they do not

know 100 per cent what the trouble is they just say - It must be nerves, may

be psycosomatic, why dont you go to the therapyst?

Theraphy in Argentina (specially in Buenos Aires) is different than in USA;

I don't know in Canada, here you can be with a psycological treatment for a

lot of years,( almost everybody does

The most respectful treament is that one having Freud or Lacan bases. Yet

Gestalt, Psychodrama and other techniques that are shorter are repelled by

those ortodoxian psychologysts that say that all the others are not valuable

unless you have an ordinary psychological degree first.

Well in fact I have done some years of psycologycal research, whith a

Lacanian therapyst. But when feeling bad, and having low presure and

Tachicardias, that, my friends didn't help at all.Nevertheless I change

professional, and went to a psychiatryst who gave me Zoloft (for panik attak

which I had after some time of suffering different kind off  symphoms within

my body, even fainting sometimes due to low pressure)

Now this work well with my panic, but I still have low blood pressure,

tachicardias on efforts and  some stomach acidity, caused by a bone

medication I was given (Flexicamin B 12) that  turn out into ulcus,

Apparently Flex. was too strong for my stomach. But this happend some long

time ago, what remained from that was acidity and some stomach pains when

eating. And I like food!

What I had to change with all these were my dietary uses,  Being vegetarian

up to four years ago, when having ulcus had to start eating lots of meat

again. This was doctors prescription--But now I like it a lot, what I don't

eat to much is fruit, and I do not miss it.



Well for sure I am forgetting lots of things, so I am here to answer what

ever arouses.



I thank you all for your concern, it is great having found you all out there.



Please forgive my english which is not great, and I wish you all a nice weekend.



Daniela

From a hot Buenos Aires city, preparing for tomorrows son's birthday party.

(He is 11 =)

We will enjoy our first swimming pool Party!!!!



















a

Danielita

Buenos Aires

Argentina

AUNQUE NO LO VEAMOS, EL SOL SIEMPRE ESTA   @-;-'---,'---

"The sky speaks in  celestial objects; the sun, the moon, the planets and

the stars are its vocabulary" DR.E.C.Krupp





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:36:37 -0800

--------

At 02:01 PM 1/10/97 -0300, you wrote:



>tachicardias on efforts and  some stomach acidity, caused by a bone

>medication I was given (Flexicamin B 12) that  turn out into ulcus,

>Apparently Flex. was too strong for my stomach.

>

so tell us more about this bone medication. what were in the indicators for

its use?

also give us a diet dairy for a typical days meals.

do you avoid all salt?



richard



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low pressure/How can I contact Simon and Shuster?/dandelion

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:02:23 -0900

--------

>Nadolol was prescripted to me after some Holter controls, where it was found

>that in activity  (just walking, or changing clothes)I had tachicardias (too

>high 178 p/m ) Even though while sleeping there were Bradichardias. 55 p/m

>I am to have a rutine check soon, but up to now  no tyroyd problems, (This

>was the first thing supposed)were found,  No mitral valve problems, just

>some chest pains when doing efforts, but  doctors say it is not the heart,

>nevertheless, I may tell, that I think there may be some tests missing. The

>fact is that in this country medicine, or at least common medicine,works

>like this, If you have something especific, and that doctors know well what

>is it about, they suggest tests and all kind of studies, buy if they do not

>know 100 per cent what the trouble is they just say - It must be nerves, may

>be psycosomatic, why dont you go to the therapyst?



Just a stab in the dark without more information but, have you had your

blood sugar checked for hypoglycaemia?  Some of the symptoms you describe,

low blood pressure, tachycardia, fainting, chest pains, etc, can be

attributed to low blood sugar.  Of course, some doctors I've talked to think

that hypoglycaemia is just a psychosomatic disease anyway.  But it can

easily be controlled with diet.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: JESUS FREAK <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:16:30 -0600

--------

This is in response to the response Anita Hales posted.



No.  This is not helping me.  We don't want a cure for cancer, she is

worried about the hot flashes as I stated before.  We can't "fix" the cancer

first, then worry about the hot flashes.  This  woman is going through

menopause and having horrible hot flashes.



YOu did finally suggest Black cohosh, which _is_ estrogen based and woman

with breast cancer are told not to take it.



Please I'd like some better advice.  Anyone?  I gtuess the cancer part

is irrelevant except that she cannot take anything with estrogen.

I really need some help with her menopausal sympotoms ((insomnia,

depression, etc), especially the hot flashes.  Thanks!



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:12:21 -0800

--------

At 03:16 PM 1/8/97 -0600, you wrote:

>This is in response to the response Anita Hales posted.

>

>No.  This is not helping me.  We don't want a cure for cancer, she is

>worried about the hot flashes as I stated before.  We can't "fix" the cancer

>first, then worry about the hot flashes.  This  woman is going through

>menopause and having horrible hot flashes.

>

>YOu did finally suggest Black cohosh, which _is_ estrogen based and woman

>with breast cancer are told not to take it.

>

>Please I'd like some better advice.  Anyone?  I gtuess the cancer part

>is irrelevant except that she cannot take anything with estrogen.

>I really need some help with her menopausal sympotoms ((insomnia,

>depression, etc), especially the hot flashes.  Thanks!

>

>Deana

>





Hello Deana,



Climacteric and Menopause being not health problems, but the natural

transitional phases in a woman's life, you are discussing the most common

sympton, hot flashes, caused by the decline in estrogen secretion.  About 85

% of all women over age 50 are affected.  For some, this can be a

frightening experience, with palpitations, dizziness or faintness.

Emotional stress, exercise, alcohol and certain foods can be triggers for

some individuals.



David Hoffmann suggests Chasteberry.  (Vitex agnus-castus)  part used:  The

fruit.  Action:  Uterine tonic.  To quote Hoffmann..."Chasteberry may be

called a balancing remedy, as it can produce apparently opposite effects

though in truth it is simply normalizing.  It has a reputation as both an

aphrodisiac and an anaphrodisiac!  It will usually enable what is appopriate

to occur.  The greatest use of chasteberry lies in normalizing the activity

of the female sex hormones....(snip)......It is especially beneficial during

menopausal changes.  Scientists think that it regulates the pituitary gland,

which detects increased estrogen levels and tells the ovaries to make less

Chasteberry can start to work on imbalances after about 10 days, but it may

take up to 6 months or longer."



Cautions:

        Source

American Herbal Products Assn. Botanical Safety Index    Not to be used

during pregnancy.



Herb Society of America Encyclopedia of Herbs                 Excess causes

nerve disorder known as formication (sensation of

insects crawling under the skin.)



Not prescribing, just suggesting you talk with your health practitioner

about this herb.  For myself, I would add Motherwort (Leonurus cardica) for

heart palpitations and anxiety, if any, for its sedative action, but only

after starting chaseberry as a simple for enough time to see if there is a

reaction.  Good luck to you.





Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:27:34 -0900

--------

At 03:12 PM 1/8/97 -0800, Marcia Elston wrote:

>At 03:16 PM 1/8/97 -0600, you wrote:

>>This is in response to the response Anita Hales posted.

>>

>>No.  This is not helping me.  We don't want a cure for cancer, she is

>>worried about the hot flashes as I stated before.  We can't "fix" the cancer

>>first, then worry about the hot flashes.  This  woman is going through

>>menopause and having horrible hot flashes.

>>

>>YOu did finally suggest Black cohosh, which _is_ estrogen based and woman

>>with breast cancer are told not to take it.

>>

>>Please I'd like some better advice.  Anyone?  I gtuess the cancer part

>>is irrelevant except that she cannot take anything with estrogen.

>>I really need some help with her menopausal sympotoms ((insomnia,

>>depression, etc), especially the hot flashes.  Thanks!

>>

>>Deana

>>

>

>

>Hello Deana,

>

>Climacteric and Menopause being not health problems, but the natural

>transitional phases in a woman's life, you are discussing the most common

>sympton, hot flashes, caused by the decline in estrogen secretion.  About 85

>% of all women over age 50 are affected.  For some, this can be a

>frightening experience, with palpitations, dizziness or faintness.

>Emotional stress, exercise, alcohol and certain foods can be triggers for

>some individuals.

>

>David Hoffmann suggests Chasteberry.  (Vitex agnus-castus)  part used:  The

>fruit.  Action:  Uterine tonic.  To quote Hoffmann..."Chasteberry may be

>called a balancing remedy, as it can produce apparently opposite effects

>though in truth it is simply normalizing.  It has a reputation as both an

>aphrodisiac and an anaphrodisiac!  It will usually enable what is appopriate

>to occur.  The greatest use of chasteberry lies in normalizing the activity

>of the female sex hormones....(snip)......It is especially beneficial during

>menopausal changes.  Scientists think that it regulates the pituitary gland,

>which detects increased estrogen levels and tells the ovaries to make less

>Chasteberry can start to work on imbalances after about 10 days, but it may

>take up to 6 months or longer."

>

>Cautions:

>        Source

>American Herbal Products Assn. Botanical Safety Index    Not to be used

>during pregnancy.

>

>Herb Society of America Encyclopedia of Herbs                 Excess causes

>nerve disorder known as formication (sensation of

>insects crawling under the skin.)

>

>Not prescribing, just suggesting you talk with your health practitioner

>about this herb.  For myself, I would add Motherwort (Leonurus cardica) for

>heart palpitations and anxiety, if any, for its sedative action, but only

>after starting chaseberry as a simple for enough time to see if there is a

>reaction.  Good luck to you.

>

>

>Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

>Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

>                                  Herbal Indulgence

>                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

>

>

Vitex increases progestrone output.  I don't know if this would be a problem

in the casse of breast cancer.  I am not sure of the hormonal action of

motherwort.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: "JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D." <JoeZ6@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:10:11 -0500

--------

have you checked out dong quai?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: "Sandow, Kay" <KSANDOW@HQ.ROW.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:49:00 -0500

--------

Deanna,



I'll have to look for the information, but I just read an article about a

product formulated for athletes that had a high arginine content and a low

glycemic index.  They were studying growth hormone in the study, but the

side effect they mentioned was reduced PMS symptoms and stabilized hormone

levels.  I don't remember anything specific about menopause, I think the

sample was too young.  The product stimulated growth hormone when taken

without food, or at bedtime.  I'm not sure how the growth hormone would

figure in with tumors but it may be an interesting research assignment if

someone doesn't already know the answer.   I'll look for the article, all I

remember is the product was a sports-type drink and was compared to gatorade

type products.



If you send me your e-mail, I'll  scan in the article and send it to you if

I can find it.



Kay

ksandow@hq.row.com

 ----------

From: Medicinal and Aromatic Plants discussion list

To: HERB

Subject: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

Date: Wednesday, January 08, 1997 4:22PM



This is in response to the response Anita Hales posted.



No.  This is not helping me.  We don't want a cure for cancer, she is

worried about the hot flashes as I stated before.  We can't "fix" the cancer

first, then worry about the hot flashes.  This  woman is going through

menopause and having horrible hot flashes.



YOu did finally suggest Black cohosh, which _is_ estrogen based and woman

with breast cancer are told not to take it.



Please I'd like some better advice.  Anyone?  I gtuess the cancer part

is irrelevant except that she cannot take anything with estrogen.

I really need some help with her menopausal sympotoms ((insomnia,

depression, etc), especially the hot flashes.  Thanks!



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 07:25:46 -0800

--------

>YOu did finally suggest Black cohosh, which _is_ estrogen based and woman

>with breast cancer are told not to take it.

>

>Please I'd like some better advice.  Anyone?  I gtuess the cancer part

>is irrelevant except that she cannot take anything with estrogen.

>I really need some help with her menopausal sympotoms ((insomnia,

>depression, etc), especially the hot flashes.  Thanks!

>

>Deana

>

this isn't necessarily better advice, just different.

dietary and life style changes that may help

1. no coffee

2. no alcohol

3.no smoking

4.cold foods like salads and fruits, no fruit juice, no raw food

5. no refined sugar

6. no hydrogenated fats

7. commerically raised meats and poultry



add

1.exercise

2.flax seed oil

3.vitamin e (d-alpha)



in chinese medicine menopause symptoms  implies  a def. of yin fluids,

particularly those that calm and

relax the liver



richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Paula Baumgartner <yogt@MAIL.KIVA.NET>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:13:53 -0500

--------

>>

>>>Please I'd like some better advice.



I don't know if it is better but I will tell you what has been successful

for me for hot flashes.  I take a homeopathic rememdy that I get at the

health food store that has viper venom ad herbs in it.  Successful within

days.  I will send you the name as soon as it is available to me.  A friend

has my empty bottle and is picking up some today at the store and I can't

remember it.



Note: I have tried many different preps and this is the only one that has

worked for me.







Peace, Paula



  Anyone?  I gtuess the cancer part

>>>is irrelevant except that she cannot take anything with estrogen.

>>>I really need some help with her menopausal sympotoms ((insomnia,

>>>depression, etc), especially the hot flashes.  Thanks!





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: m kent <mkent@TEXOMA.NET>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:19:46 -0600

--------

I would really do some research before I took arginine or any other

supplement that increased growth hormone.

Cancer cells are fast growing and maybe more GH would make them proliferate

even faster

Just a thought

MK



>Deanna,

>

>I'll have to look for the information, but I just read an article about a

>product formulated for athletes that had a high arginine content and a low

>glycemic index.  They were studying growth hormone in the study, but the

>side effect they mentioned was reduced PMS symptoms and stabilized hormone





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:46:48 -0800

--------

At 09:08 PM 1/9/97 -0800, you wrote:

>>this isn't necessarily better advice, just different.

>>dietary and life style changes that may help

>>1. no coffee

>>2. no alcohol

>>3.no smoking

>>4.cold foods like salads and fruits, no fruit juice, no raw food

>

>Richard,

>My acupuncturist/Chinese Herbalist has told me to NOT take cold foods,  It

>is detrimental to digestive organs. (Groggy brain so can't remember if it

>was pancreas or what - sorry).  Why did you recommend cold food?  Just

>curious -

>Kathy

>Kathy McQuade-Sedler

>

i didn't recommend cold foods. they are on the no list too.



richard



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Paul & Kathy Sedler <smeherbs@MAKO.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:08:39 -0800

--------

>this isn't necessarily better advice, just different.

>dietary and life style changes that may help

>1. no coffee

>2. no alcohol

>3.no smoking

>4.cold foods like salads and fruits, no fruit juice, no raw food



Richard,

My acupuncturist/Chinese Herbalist has told me to NOT take cold foods,  It

is detrimental to digestive organs. (Groggy brain so can't remember if it

was pancreas or what - sorry).  Why did you recommend cold food?  Just

curious -

Kathy

Kathy McQuade-Sedler



Sedler's Mother Earth Herbs - 5272-A West Gold Ct., Beale AFB, CA  95903

916-788-0138 ***** email SMEHerbs@mako.com

FAX 916-788-0849 (not dedicated line)

(All appropriate disclaimers apply.)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Paul & Kathy Sedler <smeherbs@MAKO.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:08:41 -0800

--------

At 11:13 AM 1/9/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>>

>>>>Please I'd like some better advice.

>

Just my two cents, but this is what I have done as recommended by my Naturopath:

I take Vitex tincture,  4-6 dropperfuls per day.

Wild Yam tincture, 3 dropperfuls per day

Progesterone cream

St. John's Wort tincture 4-6 dropperfuls per day for depression

The symptoms disapppeared!!!!  I am very leary of anything containing

estrogen, as I am in the high risk group for breast cancer.

My ND has done extensive research on menopausal symptoms and their relief.

She is totally against ANY preparations containing estrogen unless lab work

shows a definate need in the many areas she tests.  Her experience has been

that progesterone cream helps many many people and that estrogen containing

substances are grossly overused with detriment.  She does do phone

consultations, so if you would like to talk to her please email me privately

for that.

Kathy

Kathy McQuade-Sedler



Sedler's Mother Earth Herbs - 5272-A West Gold Ct., Beale AFB, CA  95903

916-788-0138 ***** email SMEHerbs@mako.com

FAX 916-788-0849 (not dedicated line)

(All appropriate disclaimers apply.)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Paul & Kathy Sedler <smeherbs@MAKO.COM>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:06:01 -0800

--------

At 08:46 PM 1/9/97 -0800, you wrote:

>At 09:08 PM 1/9/97 -0800, you wrote:

>>>this isn't necessarily better advice, just different.

>>>dietary and life style changes that may help

>>>1. no coffee

>>>2. no alcohol

>>>3.no smoking

>>>4.cold foods like salads and fruits, no fruit juice, no raw food

>>

>>Richard,

>>My acupuncturist/Chinese Herbalist has told me to NOT take cold foods,  It

>>is detrimental to digestive organs. (Groggy brain so can't remember if it

>>was pancreas or what - sorry).  Why did you recommend cold food?  Just

>>curious -

>>Kathy

>>Kathy McQuade-Sedler

>>

>i didn't recommend cold foods. they are on the no list too.

>

>richard



Richard,

Sorry, but I saw that the word  *no* was deleted from the beginning of that

line when you typed it in, so after rereading the previous sentence in your

post, I decided to ask.  It was unclear to me anyway about whether you were

recommending cold foods or not.  Thanks for the clarification.

Kathy

Kathy McQuade-Sedler



Sedler's Mother Earth Herbs - 5272-A West Gold Ct., Beale AFB, CA  95903

916-788-0138 ***** email SMEHerbs@mako.com

FAX 916-788-0849 (not dedicated line)

(All appropriate disclaimers apply.)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:02:07 -0900

--------

At 04:17 PM 1/9/97 GMT, maxine casey wrote:

>Am I the only one who thought Jesus Freak's response to Anita Hales post

>was rude and uncalled for?

>

>Personally, if I had breast cancer I'd be a darn sight more worried about

>curing that than going through the menopause.  I would just like to offer

>my thanks to Anita for her most informative post.  Although I am lucky

>enough not to suffer from this myself, I intend to save the information for

>future reference.

>

>

One thing that JF may be overlooking is the holistic picture.  It is best to

deal with the most threatening things first and you may find that secondary

symptoms are reduced or eliminated.  In this case the cancer would be life

threatening where the hot flashes are not, however annoying they may be.

Unfortunately, most of the herbal remedies I am familiar with dabble with

the hormones which may be harmful to the cancer therapy.  I am thinking that

treating the hormones must wait until the other problem is brought under

control.  I would think that maybe flaxseed oil, vit. E and Vit. c would be

good to add to the diet and may help balance things but it sounds like she

needs more intensive treatment for the hormone imbalance.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: "Jennifer Gibbs." <JennyGibbs@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:04:58 -0500

--------

Deana,



Dr. Andrew Weil suggests an herbal formula to help with hot flashes: it

combines dong quai, chaste tree, and damiana.  He says take one dropperful of

a tincture of each herb once a day at noon.



He also *recommends* soy products, especially for those needing to reduce

estrogen overload; evidently soy contains "phytoestrogens" (plant estrogens)

which differ chemically from those produced in our bodies and have some sort

of "protective" effect in those with estrogen imbalances or high estrogen

levels.  I'm no expert, but it sounds like your friend should not discount

soy until she does some research.



Jenny





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breat Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Carolyn Johnson Lewis <CBJLword@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:59:53 -0500

--------

I have found in myself and in talking to others, a negative reaction to soy

in a variety of forms.  In myself it produced at times rather severe allergy

symptoms.  Just wanted to note this is a possibility when taking soy.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Sanicle

From: Celeste <ckubasta@PIONEER.STATE.ND.US>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:15:46 -0800

--------

Help!!! A friend with cancer was told by his doctor to get the herb

SANICLE for treatment.  No one locally has it and does not have any

information on prices.  Can anyone help?  TIA

Celeste





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Not for Low Blood Pressure Query

From: "Sarah A. Boardman" <LUCKYSARAH@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:30:22 -0500

--------

The information on Somazyme is for shingles

NOT FOR LOW-BLOOD PRESSURE...



I apologize for the cut & paste error.  In an effort to respond too quickly,

I goofed.



Ken





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Legalize Botanicals!

From: Will Bason <wbason@SWVA.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:16:21 -0500

--------

Eric said:

(snip)

>        Hey folks, wouldn't it be great if we had a sane national drug policy?

>I'm going to go out on a limb inviting replies of all natures by suggesting

>that the US Congress legalize *all* of what we call illegal drugs. Yes

>folks that's heroin, marijuana, cocaine etc.(snip)





What about legalizing all botanicals, as opposed to all drugs. Opium but

not heroin.  Coca leaves but not cocaine. All cactuses (cacti?) and

mushrooms etc., but not synthesised psychedelics.

        This would be easier to pass than outright legalization of all

drugs, and might well be a wiser choice. Also it might protect against big

business's attempts to refine and then monopolize botanicals by declairing

them too "dangerous".



                                                        Will





man made whisky

God made pot

God is perfect

man is not.

        (biker saying)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Legalize Botanicals!

From: Barbara Rice 396-5498 <brice@EPFL2.EPFLBALTO.ORG>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:56:42 -0500

--------

oh! is that the reason drugstores are popping up all over? <?:>





On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Will Bason wrote:



> Eric said:

> (snip)

> >        Hey folks, wouldn't it be great if we had a sane national drug policy?

> >I'm going to go out on a limb inviting replies of all natures by suggesting

> >that the US Congress legalize *all* of what we call illegal drugs. Yes

> >folks that's heroin, marijuana, cocaine etc.(snip)

>

>

> What about legalizing all botanicals, as opposed to all drugs. Opium but

> not heroin.  Coca leaves but not cocaine. All cactuses (cacti?) and

> mushrooms etc., but not synthesised psychedelics.

>         This would be easier to pass than outright legalization of all

> drugs, and might well be a wiser choice. Also it might protect against big

> business's attempts to refine and then monopolize botanicals by declairing

> them too "dangerous".

>

>                                                         Will

>

>

> man made whisky

> God made pot

> God is perfect

> man is not.

>         (biker saying)

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Legalize Botanicals!

From: Linda K Shipley <lindashipley@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:34:36 EST

--------

I may ask a dumb question, but what is psychedelic about cactus?

Linda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Legalize Botanicals!

From: Will Bason <wbason@SWVA.NET>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:15:03 -0500

--------

>I may ask a dumb question, but what is psychedelic about cactus?

>Linda



The peyote cactus of the the u.s. southewest and mexico has been used as a

spiritual sacrement for thousands of years by native americans.  The san

pedro and several other cactuses have been used similarly on the pacific

coast of south america. They all contain the psychedelic mescaline.





When i step back and think about it, it says a lot about the dominant

culture that whiskey is legal and abundant while the ancient plant allies

that our ancestors used for serious religious purposes are either

relatively unknown, illegal , or both.



                                                sincerely,

                                                        will









*********************

Will Bason

wbason@swva.net

http://www.swva.net/taonow/







































.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Searching for special herbs

From: JEFFREY SCHILLER <jeffreys@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:02:02 -0700

--------

A friend of mine who owns a health food store had asked me to try and help

her find some information and suppliers for the herbs:



AMERICAN BOXWOOD



&



BORAMETZ - She wasn't sure if this was the correct spelling - It is an herb

from the Ukraine.



Any information and suppliers would be appreciated.



Thanks in advance. Please email me directly.

Jeffrey





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fwd: Breast Cancer and Hot Flashes

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:01:23 -0900

--------

A

>

>     Regarding the hot flashes -- have her check with the better health food

>     stores as they have several NATURAL estrogen creams.  She would rub this

>     natural estrogen on her stomach area, penetration would be in that area

>     only. No pills going through her body (breast) or through her liver,

etc.

>



Estrogen creams enter the body as well.  The skin is porous and absorbs

them.  If you want to try an experiment, slice some garlic and put a slice

on the bottom of each foot and wait a bit.  I very short order, you will

taste garlic in your mouth and be able to smell it as well.  Just because

you put it on the outside does not mean it stays there.  BTW, this is a good

way to administer garlic to persons who cannot take it orally.

**************************************************************

*            Merry Christmas and Happy New Year              *

**************************************************************

*Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                          *

**************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: NaCl and blood pressure

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:30:16 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-08 21:00:22 EST, you write:



<< where's the evidence that salt increases blood pressure?

 why aren't you asking about her kidney's and adrenals? (instead of heart)



 richard >>



There is evidence that NaCl (salt) increases blood pressure becauses it

causes the body to retain more water.  The physical presence of increased

fluid in the blood vessels causes increased blood pressure just like

increased water in a garden hose causes the water pressure to increase.  This

is why people with borderline/high blood pressure are quite often started on

a low salt diet by their health care professional.  The lowering of the Na

(sodium) and Cl (chlorine) causes a drop in blood pressure just by the

reduction of the amount of fluid in the blood vessels.  This is a safer

option than chemical BP reduction and works well in a lot of cases.



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NaCl and blood pressure

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:29:35 -0800

--------

At 01:30 AM 1/9/97 -0500, you wrote:



>There is evidence that NaCl (salt) increases blood pressure becauses it

>causes the body to retain more water.  The physical presence of increased

>fluid in the blood vessels causes increased blood pressure just like

>increased water in a garden hose causes the water pressure to increase



the blood pressure increase is seen ONLY in people who are susceptible to it.

anyway its the kidneys job to control the sodium/potassium ratio.

there is no direct corrolation between salt intake and water retention.(in

healthy people)



the fact is that we do not have enough information about this person in

question to make

any recommendations what so ever.





richard

        richard  and linda                      seattle wa.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NaCl and blood pressure

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:32:56 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-09 14:07:31 EST, you write:



<<

 the blood pressure increase is seen ONLY in people who are susceptible to

it.

 anyway its the kidneys job to control the sodium/potassium ratio.

 there is no direct corrolation between salt intake and water retention.(in

 healthy people)



 the fact is that we do not have enough information about this person in

 question to make

 any recommendations what so ever.

  >>

Richard,



I was not trying to diagnose anything and certainly did not make any

recommendations.  I was just explaining in layman's terms how salt (Na or

sodium salts) can increase BP and why increased fluid retention causes

increased BP.  I used the garden hose analogy for those who might have

difficulty grasping the theory.  I have absolutely no idea why the list

subscriber in question has low BP.  I was only discussing what does happen if

NaCl (or another sodium salt) does affect the body by causing increased fluid

retention.  Pregnant ladies are sometimes sensitive to this sort of thing and

reducing the salt intake usually help the situation.  Most pregnant women do

not have kidney or adrenal gland disease--they usually just have increased

fluid retention and reducing salt intake really does help!  Been there, done

that!  ;-)



If some people are "susceptible" as you say, to fluid retention as a result

of NaCl intake, then by reducing the NaCl intake will reduce the BP.



BTW, it has been my experience that people with kidney disease usually have

INCREASED blood pressure.  This person who asked the original question has a

problem with LOW BP.



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NaCl and blood pressure

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:34:43 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-09 01:32:12 EST, you write:



>There is evidence that NaCl (salt) increases blood pressure becauses it

>causes the body to retain more water.  The physical presence of increased

>fluid in the blood vessels causes increased blood pressure just like

>increased water in a garden hose causes the water pressure to increase.

 This

>is why people with borderline/high blood pressure are quite often started on

>a low salt diet by their health care professional.  The lowering of the Na

>(sodium) and Cl (chlorine) causes a drop in blood pressure just by the

>reduction of the amount of fluid in the blood vessels.  This is a safer

>option than chemical BP reduction and works well in a lot of cases.

>

>



Interesting.....



However, several months ago there was a study cited in Prevention magazine

wherein those utilizing Celtic Sea Salt sometimes saw a reduction in high

blood pressure.



Makes you wonder how much has to do with water retention and how much is due

to the stripping and mutilation of the original salt mineral.



Wishing you wellness,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NaCl and blood pressure

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:46:52 -0800

--------

At 06:32 PM 1/9/97 -0500, you wrote:



>

>I was not trying to diagnose anything and certainly did not make any

>recommendations.  I was just explaining in layman's terms how salt (Na or

>sodium salts) can increase BP and why increased fluid retention causes

>increased BP.  I used the garden hose analogy for those who might have

>difficulty grasping the theory.  I have absolutely no idea why the list

>subscriber in question has low BP.  I was only discussing what does happen if

>NaCl (or another sodium salt) does affect the body by causing increased fluid

>retention.

>If some people are "susceptible" as you say, to fluid retention as a result

>of NaCl intake, then by reducing the NaCl intake will reduce the BP.

>

if salt increases bp and fluid retention then the people of japan would all

have high bp

and dying at a young age.the fact is that the japanese as a nation have

about the lowest

bp of any country and also the longest life span of just about anyone.

they also use salty condiments liberally on all their foods.

salt is also essential in the production of HcL in the stomach.



richard



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Horsechestnut Avail. in Alpha-Escin Form?

From: Michael Halpern <MHalpern@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:38:15 -0500

--------

I'd like to find a horsechestnut product or derivative in which some or all

of the beta-escin content has been converted to the much more bioavailable

alpha-escin form.  If that's not difficult enough, I need it without alcohol.



I understand Madaus in Germany makes an alpha-escin product called Reparil,

but I've been unable to find it here.  The ideal product would contain the

escin synergists in horsechestnut, while converting much of the beta to alpha

escin.



Does anyone have any leads on products of whatever description with

alpha-escins?



Mike





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: January HerbNET

From: Maureen Rogers <HERBWORLD@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:24:57 -0500

--------

January's Herbnet Magazine is now online (http://www.herbnet.com/) with

culinary herb thyme (1997's Herb of the year); medicinal herb saw palmetto;

essential oil cedar; spice mace and edible flower daylily.  And check out the

program for the 2nd Annual Herb Business Winter Getaway Conference in Baton

Rouge, Feb 6-10.  Learn about the mediciness of herbs and enjoy Mardi Gras at

the same time.



Maureen Rogers

The Herb Growing & Marketing Network





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: other lists

From: Maureen Rogers <HERBWORLD@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:35:24 -0500

--------

For other lists related to herbs go to the Potpourri section of HerbNET

(http://www.herbnet.com/)  We list as many as we can find.



Maureen Rogers

The Herb Growing & Marketing Network

2nd Annual Herb Business Winter Getaway Conference, Feb 6-10, Baton Rouge, LA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Yin/Yang Consitution???

From: Teasel <teasel@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:58:28 EST

--------

Someone on another list wrote "If you are more yin than yang

in your current constitution, you will really have a positive

response from Cell Tech algae.  I ate it for over 5 years

and never noticed any difference no matter how much I ate.

My sponsor was crazy about it.  My basic constitution is

more yang ... I have been much more pleased with Synergy."



Can someone please tell me what yin/yang means, and how to

tell which one my constitution is?



Thank you VERY much.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Yin/Yang Consitution???

From: Robert Kelly <rekelly@EPIX.NET>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:20:23 -0500

--------

At 2:58 PM 1/9/97, Teasel wrote:

>Someone on another list wrote "If you are more yin than yang

>in your current constitution, you will really have a positive

>response from <deleted>.  I ate it for over 5 years

>and never noticed any difference no matter how much I ate.

>My *sponsor* (emphasis added) was crazy about it.  My basic constitution is

>more yang ... I have been much more pleased with <blank>."

>

>Can someone please tell me what yin/yang means, and how to

>tell which one my constitution is?

>

>Thank you VERY much.



Excerpted from "The Basic Principles of Chinese Medicine" by G.T. & N.R. Lewith:

_______

I. Yin and Yang



The theory of yin and yang is a kind of world outlook. It holds that all

things have two opposite aspects, yin and yang, which are both opposite and

at the same time interdependent. This is a universal law of the material

world. These two aspects are in opposition to each other but because one end

of the spectrum cannot exist without the other they are interdependent.



The ancient Chinese used water and fire to symbolize yin and yang; anything

moving, hot, bright and hyperactive is yang, and anything quiescent, cold,

dim and hypoactive is yin.



The yin and yang properties of things are not absolute but relative. As an

object or person changes so the yin and yang components change at a gradual

rate. Each of the yin and yang properties of the object is a condition for

the existence of the other; neither can exist in isolation.



These two opposites are not stationary but in constant motion. If we imagine

the circadian rhythm, night is yin and day is yang; as night (yin) fades it

becomes day (yang), and as yang fades it becomes yin. Yin and yang are

therefore changing into each other as well as balancing each other.

________

You can read a great deal more about this at:

<http://www.healthy.net/library/books/modacu/mod1.htm>



The item mentioned in your original post is a commercial product, mentions

of which are discouraged here.  It is usually sold via a multi-level

marketing organization, often a sign to proceed with caution.



Regards,





Robert Emmet Kelly, Jr |"Lost and alone on some forgotten highway,

Janet O'Brien Kelly    |travelled by many, remembered by few.

rekelly@epix.net       |Looking for something that I can believe in,

The Lunch Stop         |looking for something that I'd like to do with my life."

Greencastle, PA 17225           "Sweet Surrender" -- John Denver





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Yin/Yang Consitution???

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:08:52 GMT

--------

>The theory of yin and yang is a kind of world outlook. It holds that all

>things have two opposite aspects, yin and yang, which are both opposite and

>at the same time interdependent. This is a universal law of the material

>world. These two aspects are in opposition to each other but because one end

>of the spectrum cannot exist without the other they are interdependent.



All of that is true, but it is far simpler simply to state that yinyang are

parameters. We in the West already have the concept of parameters.



Yinyang, however, is NOT a 'universal law of the material world,' because the

ancient Chinese did not conceive of a 'material world.' Solidity, in yinyang

theory, is simply yin. It overstates things to say that yinyang is a 'law.'

It is parameters, or a cosmogonic level if you are seeking a philosophic or

visionary model.



>The ancient Chinese used water and fire to symbolize yin and yang; anything

>moving, hot, bright and hyperactive is yang, and anything quiescent, cold,

>dim and hypoactive is yin.



I think that Northern Californians would argue with the 'quiescence' of water

right about now....



>The yin and yang properties of things are not absolute but relative. As an

>object or person changes so the yin and yang components change at a gradual

>rate. Each of the yin and yang properties of the object is a condition for

>the existence of the other; neither can exist in isolation.



Yes, but constitutions don't switch from yin to yang in most cases. That's

what a constitution is, the relatively stable context of a person's life. In

that sense, constitution is yin, and thereby resistant to change.



Glad to be back.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Kidneys???

From: Teasel <teasel@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:58:28 EST

--------

Can anyone suggest ways to keep one's kidneys in good shape?

I keep hearing about more and more people needing dialysis,

and want to try to keep mine in good condition.



Thank you VERY much.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Kidneys???

From: Richard Morgan <Audio001@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:49:48 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-09 15:14:04 EST, you write:



<<

 Can anyone suggest ways to keep one's kidneys in good shape?

 I keep hearing about more and more people needing dialysis,

 and want to try to keep mine in good condition.

  >>



Daily use of cranberry pills, extract, or cranberry product of any kind is

very helpfull. Also consumption of lots of water on a daily basis allows the

kidneys to stay cleen and flushed.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Kidneys???

From: Paula Baumgartner <yogt@MAIL.KIVA.NET>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:00:18 -0500

--------

At 05:49 PM 1/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-09 15:14:04 EST, you write:

>

><<

> Can anyone suggest ways to keep one's kidneys in good shape?

> I keep hearing about more and more people needing dialysis,

> and want to try to keep mine in good condition.



the water poured from the pan of boiled green beans.

>  >>

>

>Daily use of cranberry pills, extract, or cranberry product of any kind is

>very helpfull. Also consumption of lots of water on a daily basis allows the

>kidneys to stay cleen and flushed.

>

>

Peace,

   Paula

The Perennial Conspiracy,Perennial Specialist

Nursery, Design, Sales



http://www.pplsi.com/financial.html

Gardener's Log

http://members.tripod.com/~DirtyFingernails/index.html

http://mkn.co.uk/help/extra/people/DirtyFingernails

Garden Consultant

http://www.powernet.com/freepage/Gardener

Zone 5





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Kidneys???

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:37:33 -0800

--------

At 10:00 PM 1/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>At 05:49 PM 1/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>In a message dated 97-01-09 15:14:04 EST, you write:

>>

>><<

>> Can anyone suggest ways to keep one's kidneys in good shape?

>> I keep hearing about more and more people needing dialysis,

>> and want to try to keep mine in good condition.

>

>the water poured from the pan of boiled green beans.

>>  >>

>>

>>Daily use of cranberry pills, extract, or cranberry product of any kind is

>>very helpfull. Also consumption of lots of water on a daily basis allows the

>>kidneys to stay cleen and flushed.

>>

>>

Hello:

If you drink daily a cup of Horsetail Tea your kidney will be clean and

flush too.

I think Horsetail is better.

Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Kidneys???

From: Carolyn Johnson Lewis <CBJLword@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:32:14 -0500

--------

I have been using Milk Thistle extract for over a year now to help strengthen

my liver.  It might also be useful to the kidneys.  It helped my overall

health enormously after a long bout with candida which came on after extended

use of antibiotics.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Kidneys???

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:54:23 -0900

--------

At 05:49 PM 1/11/97 -0500, Richard Morgan wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-09 15:14:04 EST, you write:

>

><<

> Can anyone suggest ways to keep one's kidneys in good shape?

> I keep hearing about more and more people needing dialysis,

> and want to try to keep mine in good condition.

>  >>

>

>Daily use of cranberry pills, extract, or cranberry product of any kind is

>very helpfull. Also consumption of lots of water on a daily basis allows the

>kidneys to stay cleen and flushed.

>

>

concentrated cranberry extract or fresh cranberries can be beneficial but

many of the cranberry juices have so much sugar in them the effects are

overpowered by the stress on the adrenals by sugars.  I would also recommend

not using any anti-acids such as TUMS if you don't want stones.  Kidneys

will stay healthy if the diet is good and enough water is consumed.  If your

urine is strong smelling and dark yellow or even brown, you are probably

somewhat dehydrated and need more water.  your kidneys need water to work

properly.  Thier job is to eliminate waste and toxins.  Without adequate

water, they can suffer from the toxic effects of that same waste.  I would

also recommend daily doses of vitamin C for the whole system including kidneys.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 8 Jan 1997 to 9 Jan 1997

From: skm <skm@GIASBM01.VSNL.NET.IN>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:10:37 +0530

--------

hi,

i m looking for information on a wild herb, cassia tora which is a great

source of gum and a coffee substitute also

if anyone can provide any info regarding its other uses, i shall be h

ighly obliged

thanks

suresh



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suresh Meghwani                    ^

   B.Com,L.L.B.                    $    Exporters of Indian Herbs

Director                           $

Hygienic Nature Care(India) Ltd.   $

357 Main Road,                     $tel : 91-771-536031

Samta colony,                      $fax : 91-771-534632

Raipur 492001 (M.P.)               $

India                              $

----------------------------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Ask Dr. Weil

From: Will Bason <wbason@SWVA.NET>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:39:02 -0500

--------

Hey folks,

        Check out the following url for Dr. Andrew Weil's homepage if you

can.  I've been following it for a couple of weeks, it changes every day or

so and it's immidiately one of my favorite places on the web. Today's has

more herbal content than usual.

http://www.hotwired.com/drweil/



                        hope this finds ya'll well,

                                                        will





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Natural Estrogens

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:58:11 +0000

--------

Well, the common myths come flying again,



> Hi! I'm new.

> Just my two cents worth - I've been using a yam cream for several months now.

>  No estrogen - only natural progesterone.  It stopped my hot flashes from the

> first day I used it.  It has many other benefits resulting from the yams and

> natural progesterone.



Careful, natural progesterone is really chemically synthesized from a

natural oil. Not naturally occuring, completely removed from nature.

Of course, the labelling is for the unwary consumer, as natural

doesn't mean anything legally.





>

> My neighbor had a mastectomy last summer and was told by her herbalist and

> doctor not to take dong quai as it contains estrogen.



dong quai doe not contain estrogen. It effects the estrogenic cycles,

but it does not contain any hormones. Except for a few instances, you

do not find any human reproductive hormones in plants.



THERE IS NO "NATURAL" ESTROGEN OR PROGESTERONE!





BTW, there are also

> environmental estrogens (plastic bags, car seats etc) that ya gotta watch out

> for.



I think of environmental estrogens as being in the food and fluid

(hormones given to animals and such). Plastic, although it may not be

healthy, does not contain estrogen.



Rather than repeat whats already out there, I'll say there is a

wonderful article in the most recent European Journal of Herbal

Medicine that gives an overview of the published herbalists

conflicting opinions. Also, this is from Michael Moores Herbal

Medical Dictionary at:







http://chili.rt66.com/hrbmoore/ManualsMM/MedHerbGloss2.txt





STEROIDS, PLANT The previous subject is obviously an endless one, but

as this is the glossary of an herbal nature, let me assure you,

virtually no plants have a direct steroid hormone-mimicking effect.

There are a few notable exceptions with limited application, like

Cimicifuga and Licorice.  Plant steroids are usually called

phytosterols, and, when they have any hormonal effect at all, it is

usually to interfere with human hormone functions.  Beta sitosterol,

found in lots of food, interferes with the ability to absorb

cholesterol from the diet.  Corn oil and legumes are two well-endowed

sources that can help lower cholesterol absorption.  This is of only

limited value, however, since cholesterol is readily manufactured in

the body, and elevated cholesterol in the blood is often the result of

internal hormone and neurologic stimulus, not the diet.  Cannabis can

act to interfere with androgenic hormones, and Taraxacum phytosterols

can both block the synthesis of some new cholesterol by the liver and

increase the excretion of cholesterol as bile acids; but other than

that, plants offer little direct hormonal implication.

   The first method discovered for synthesizing pharmaceutical

   hormones used

a saponin, diosgenin, and a five-step chemical degradation, to get to

progesterone, and another, using stigmasterol and bacterial culturing,

to get to cortisol. These were chemical procedures that have nothing

to do with human synthesis of such hormones, and the plants used for

the starting materials - Mexican Wild Yam, Agave, and Soy were nothing

more than commercially feasible sources of compounds widely

distributed in the plant kingdom.  A clever biochemist could obtain

testosterone from potato sterols, but no one would be likely to make

the leap of faith that eating potatoes makes you manly (or less

womanly), and there is no reason to presume that Wild Yam (Dioscorea)

has any progesterone effects in humans.  First, the method of

synthesis from diosgenin to progesterone has nothing to do with human

synthesis of the corpus luteum hormone; second, oral progesterone has

virtually no effect since it is rapidly digested; and third, orally

active synthetic progesterones such as norethindrone are test-tube

born, and never saw a Wild Yam.

   The only "precursor" the ovaries, testes and adrenal cortices EVER

   need

(and the ONLY one that they can use if synthesizing from scratch) is

something almost NONE of us ever run out of...Low Density Cholesterol.

 Unless you are grimly fasting, anorectic, alcoholic, seriously ill or

training for a triathlon, you only need blood to make steroid hormones

from.  If hormones are off, it isn't from any lack of building

materials...and any product claiming to supply "precursors" better

contain lard or butter (they don't)...or they are profoundly mistaken,

or worse.

   The recent gaggle of "Wild Yam" creams actually do contain some

   Wild Yam.

(Dioscorea villosa, NOT even the old plant source of diosgenin, D.

mexicana... if you are going to make these mistakes, at least get the

PLANT right)  This is a useful and once widely used antispasmodic

herb...I have had great success using it for my three separate bouts

with kidney stones...until I learned to drink more water and

alkalizing teas and NEVER stay in a hot tub for three hours.  What

these various Wild Yam creams DO contain, is Natural Progesterone.

Although this is inactive orally (oral progesterone is really a

synthetic relative of testosterone), it IS active when injected...or,

to a lesser degree, when applied topically.  This is pharmaceutical

progesterone, synthesized from stigmasterol, an inexpensive (soy-bean

oil) starting substance, and, although it is identical to ovarian

progesterone, it is a completely manufactured pharmaceutical.  Taking

advantage of an FDA loophole (to them this is only a cosmetic

use...they have the misguided belief that it is not bioactive

topically), coupled with some rather convincing (if irregular) studies

showing the anti-osteoporotic value of topical progesterone for SOME

women, a dozen or so manufacturers are marketing synthetic Natural

Progesterone for topical use, yet inferring that Wild Yam is what's

doing good.

  I am not taking issue with the use of topical progesterone.  It

  takes

advantage of the natural slow release into the bloodstream of ANY

steroid hormones that have been absorbed into subcutaneous adipose

tissue.  It enters the blood from general circulation the same way

normal extra-ovarian estradiol is released, and this is

philosophically (and physiologically) preferable to oral steroids,

cagily constructed to blast on through the liver before it can break

them down.  This causes the liver to react FIRST to the hormones,

instead of, if the source is general circulation, LAST. My objection

is both moral and herbal: the user often believes the hormonal effects

are "natural", and that the Wild Yam somehow supplies "precursors"

that her body can use if needed, rejected if not. This implies

self-empowerment and the honoring of a woman's metabolic choice...

something often lacking in medicine.  This is a cheat.  The creams

supply a steady source of a pharmaceutical hormone (no precursor here)

normally only available by prescription, but are SOLD as if the

benefits come from the Wild Yam extract, seemingly formulated with the

intent of having Wild Yam the most abundant substance so it can be

listed first in the list of constituents. I have even seen the

pharmaceutical Natural Progesterone labeled as "Wild Yam Progesterone-

" or "Wild Yam Estrogen precursor" or, with utter fraud, "Wild Yam

Hormone".  To my knowledge, the use of Mexican Yam for its saponins

ceased to be important by the early 1960's, with other processes for

synthesizing steroids proving to be cheaper and more reliable.  I have

been unable to find ANY manufacturer of progesterone that has used the

old Marker Degradation Method and/or diosgenin (from whatever

Dioscorea) within the last twenty years.

   Just think of it as a low-tech, noninvasive and non-prescription

   source of

progesterone, applied topically and having a slow release of moderate

amounts of the hormone.  Read some of the reputable monographs on its

use, make your choice based solely on the presence of the synthetic

hormone, and use it or don't.  It has helped some women indefinitely,

for others it helped various symptoms for a month or two and then

stopped working, for still other women I have talked to it caused

unpleasant symptoms until they ceased its use.  Since marketing a

product means selling as much as possible and (understandably)

presenting only the product's positive aspects, it would be better to

try and find the parameters of "use" or "don't use" from articles,

monographs, and best of all, other women who have used it.  Then ask

them again in a month or two and see if their personal evaluation has

changed.  If you have some bad uterine cramps, however, feel free to

try some Wild Yam itself...it often helps. Unless there is organic

disease, hormones are off is because the whole body is making the

wrong choices in the hormones it does or doesn't make.  It's a

constitutional or metabolic or dietary or life-stress problem, not

something akin to a lack of essential amino acids or essential fatty

acids that will clear up if only you supply some mythic plant-derived

"precursor".  End of tirade.



********************************************************



Thanks to Mr. Moore for his wonderful homepage!









Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



"I hope that's Valerian I smell!"





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Chapparal

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:17:15 EST

--------

Hello,



I have quite a bit of chapparal and have had it since 1994.  I cannot

remember what this herb is used for or anything about it.  Can anyone

please enlighten me or educate me.



Thank you!

-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Chapparal

From: Randy Froeba <htcw@GNA.COM>

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:46:05 -0600

--------

Heidi Feldman wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> I have quite a bit of chapparal and have had it since 1994.  I cannot

> remember what this herb is used for or anything about it.  Can anyone

> please enlighten me or educate me.

>

> Thank you!

> -Heidi-

************************************************************************

Heidi,



Chapparal is native to the American Southwest. Also known as Stinkweed,

Greasewood, and Creosote Bush.(Smell only) Contains the chemical NDGA-

nordihydroguaiaretic acid- which kills the bacteria and microoraganisms

that turns fats and oils rancid. Antiseptic action helps fight tooth

decay and gum disease in a study in the Journal of Dental Research

(sorry do not know exact chapter and verse).It also is a antiioxidant

and anti-inflammatory action. Was approved by the FDA up until 1968.

It was removed because on the animals caused kidney and lymph-system

probems.(excess amounts over long for long peroids)



Hope this helps. Now we both know a little more.



Randy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Chapparal

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:56:06 EST

--------

Randy,



Thanks so much for the information on Chapparal.  I have quite a bit of

it and let me tell you, it does stink!  Whew!



>>It also is a antiioxidant

and anti-inflammatory action.>>  This is quite interesting and also the

fact it helps gum disease and tooth decay.  Does it go into any details

as to how it can be made into a cream or ointment for

anti-inflammatories?



>>. Was approved by the FDA up until 1968.

It was removed because on the animals caused kidney and lymph-system>>

It is easily obtainable at the health food stores we shop at.  I see it

all over.



Thanks so much for your help on all of this!  I appreciate it!



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Chapparal

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:55:47 -0800

--------

At 10:17 PM 1/10/97 EST, you wrote:

>Hello,

>

>I have quite a bit of chapparal and have had it since 1994.  I cannot

>remember what this herb is used for or anything about it.  Can anyone

>please enlighten me or educate me.

>

>Thank you!

>-Heidi-

>

>Hola:

Chaparal is called too "Gobernadora". Is it a very good antibiotic

(exteernal antibiotic) for topical use, and antimicotic too.

Is a good tea for kidney stones.

Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Chapparal

From: "JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D." <JoeZ6@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:35:07 -0500

--------

I don't suppose it was for memory enhancement.....(chuckle.)  couldn't

resist.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Japanese diets and kelp

From: Penny Hemans <pennyh@THENET.CO.UK>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:11:14 +0000

--------

if salt increases bp and fluid retention then the people of japan would all

have high bp

and dying at a young age.the fact is that the japanese as a nation have

about the lowest

bp of any country and also the longest life span of just about anyone.

they also use salty condiments liberally on all their foods.

salt is also essential in the production of HcL in the stomach.



richard



Could this be because of their high kelp(seaweed) intake and their high

fish diet? (I lived in Tokyo for five years and became a huge fan of their

sushi snackbars!)



Penny





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: medicinal herb seeds and seedlings for home growers

From: Hart Hill <greengenes@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:41:05 EST

--------

I'm looking for a source/ nursery etc. for golden seal and osha plants or

seeds for cultivation, or anyone with info about cultivation of wild

medicinal herbs. Does anyone know where I can find ?

Hart





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: medicinal herb seeds and seedlings for home growers

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:19:29 -0800

--------

At 05:41 PM 1/12/97 EST, you wrote:

>I'm looking for a source/ nursery etc. for golden seal and osha plants or

>seeds for cultivation, or anyone with info about cultivation of wild

>medicinal herbs. Does anyone know where I can find ?

>Hart

>

I don't think goldenseal does well under cultivation........but maybe

someone else knows better....Howie?



Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: medicinal herb seeds and seedlings for home growers

From: Maureen Rogers <HERBWORLD@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:39:38 -0500

--------

Barney's Ginseng Patch, Rt 2 Box 43HGM, Montgomery City, MO 63361;

573-564-2575 carries ginseng & goldenseal seeds & planting roots along with

culture books.  Elixir Farm Botanicals, General Delivery, Brixey, MO 65618;

417-261-2393 specializes in Chinese and indigenous medicinal plant seed.

 Horizon Herbs, PO Box 69, Williams, OR 97544-0069; 503-846-6704, has put

together a series of booklets dealing with culture of individual medicinal

plants.   For hundreds more sources try the Herbal Green Pages, our 360+

sourcebook with over 6000 herbal sources. It's part of our membership or

available separately for $25 + $2 postage



Maureen Rogers

The Herb Growing & Marketing Network

PO Box 245, Silver Spring, PA 17575

717-393-3295; FAX: 717-393-9261





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: medicinal herb seeds and seedlings for home growers

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:48:01 -0800

--------

>Date: 12 Jan 97 22:36:09 EST

>From: Cherie Capps <102617.1353@CompuServe.COM>

>To: Marcia Elston <samara@halcyon.com>

>Subject: Re: medicinal herb seeds and seedlings for home growers

>

>I have purchased Goldenseal plants from Richters in Ontario and they do well

>here in Eugene, Oregon.  In fact, if you transplant them, a new one comes up in

>the old spot.  I have one plant I have had for 23 years.

>Cherie

>

>

>

Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: medicinal herb seeds and seedlings for home growers

From: Allan Moult <summerhill@TASSIE.NET.AU>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:19:20 -0000

--------

>>I'm looking for a source/ nursery etc. for golden seal and osha plants or

>>seeds for cultivation, or anyone with info about cultivation of wild

>>medicinal herbs. Does anyone know where I can find ?

>>Hart

Johhny's Selected Seeds offer golden seal roots for sale. Their email is

johnnys@mint.net.





Allan Moult





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 11 Jan 1997 to 12 Jan 1997

From: Charlene Pagac <PAGE303@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:21:34 -0500

--------

Does anyone have information on herbs that may be useful for a 13 year old

boy with ADHD?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 11 Jan 1997 to 12 Jan 1997

From: "Charlene J. Jaworski" <Char5410@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:16:47 -0500

--------

     There is a product sold in health food stores by the name of "Calm

Child" by planetary formulas. Some of my customers have given positive

feedback on the product. Also, I would check out the book, "Guide to Healthy

Healing" by Linda Rector Page.                                          Char





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 11 Jan 1997 to 12 Jan 1997

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:54:38 -0900

--------

At 06:21 PM 1/12/97 -0500, Charlene Pagac wrote:

>Does anyone have information on herbs that may be useful for a 13 year old

>boy with ADHD?

>

>

  I recently saw what appeared to be a good book on this subject.  It was

called Ritalin free children, I think.  Something like that.  I'll have to

go back to the bookstore and check again.  It had many good suggestions for

keeping this condition under control with diet and natural remedies.  I'll

have to buy this one I guess. People keep asking about this subject.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 11 Jan 1997 to 12 Jan 1997

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:06:03 -0800

--------

At 02:54 PM 1/14/97 -0900, you wrote:



>  I recently saw what appeared to be a good book on this subject.  It was

>called Ritalin free children, I think.  Something like that.  I'll have to

>go back to the bookstore and check again.



anita;

the book is ritalin free kids (safe and effective homeopathic medicine for

add and other

behavioral andlearning problems) by judith reichenberg-ullman and robert ullman.

a good book!



richard



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Carpal tunnel syndrome

From: Penny Hemans <pennyh@THENET.CO.UK>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:03:26 +0000

--------

I also have a question; does anyone know of an herbal salve or other

treatment that would help with carpal tunnel syndrome?



Nancy Hodinka

Stone Mountain, GA





I use Arnica cream after each reflexology treatment, but had a short course

of acupuncture which reduced the pain/numbness considerably.   Hope this

helps.



Penny





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Carpal tunnel syndrome

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 04:21:35 -0500

--------

Nancy,



B-complex vitamins with extra B6 have been know to help carpel tunnel.

Anti-inflammatories (bromelain, shark cartilege ie: First Aid by Strength

Systems, Arth-X and topically a homeopathic formula called "Traumeel") and

physio-therapy are helpful. (There have been people who have avoided surgery

by the B vitamin therapy.)



Also color therapy (William Campbell Douglass, M.D. 1-800-728-2288) would be

worth checking in to, as is the Microsoft natural keyboard (elevates

wrists/hands and puts them in a more natural position when typing, and a

wrist band (from drug store with metal plate to keep wrist from twisting

until inflammation settles down)..



Wishing you all the best,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Carpal tunnel syndrome

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:32:01 -0500

--------

Kathy-



Many thanks for the helpful info on CPT.



Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Blood pressure and salt

From: "Charlene J. Jaworski" <Char5410@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:05:29 -0500

--------

     It is my understanding that salt intake aggravates the bp in individuals

who already have a predisposition to high bp. Excessive amounts cause fluid

retention which not only aggravate weight problems, but upset normal

digestion process and weaken immune function.

                                            Char





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: herb from belize

From: "Melinda A. Correll" <Yellem@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:25:44 -0500

--------

hello

i am desperately trying to find out the name of a herb i took in belize a few

years ago. it was a blood cleanser, very bitter, of the cuscutaceae family i

believe. the common name i do not remember, but i think it had "cat" in the

name. the flowers were a yellow/orange, the fruits were gourd-like and

smallish with bumps. its vines grew abundantly in a town (?) near the western

border of belize.

if anyone can shed any light on this mystery, i would be most grateful.

thank you

melley





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb from belize

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:09:01 GMT

--------

>hello

>i am desperately trying to find out the name of a herb i took in belize a

few

>years ago. it was a blood cleanser, very bitter, of the cuscutaceae family i

>believe. the common name i do not remember, but i think it had "cat" in the

>name. the flowers were a yellow/orange, the fruits were gourd-like and

>smallish with bumps. its vines grew abundantly in a town (?) near the

western

>border of belize.

>if anyone can shed any light on this mystery, i would be most grateful.

>thank you

>melley



This is one of those 'splitters and lumpers' controversies, but

Convolvulaceae (spelled Convolvula'ceas in Spanish) is the generally accepted

family name, as far as I know. The cuscutas, or dodders, are vines with

capsule fruit. There are 170 species of cuscuta, and dodders are especially

unforgiving in identification issues, so you may have trouble running the

particular one down. Have you tried calling the Belizian embassy? They may be

able to refer you to a U.S. university that does botanical fieldwork there.



Pau





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb from belize

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:47:31 GMT

--------

> hey paul,

> thanks for the advice! also, i made a mistake. the plant was actually in

the

> cucurbitaceae, the melon family. does that help at all, or do you know of

any

> blood cleansing herbs that you would recommend?

> thanks in advance.

> melley



Figured as much, which is why I stressed that the dodders form _capsules_,

not gourds. Why do you think you need to 'cleanse your blood'???



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb from belize

From: "Melinda A. Correll" <Yellem@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:32:32 -0500

--------

hey paul,

thanks for the advice! also, i made a mistake. the plant was actually in the

cucurbitaceae, the melon family. does that help at all, or do you know of any

blood cleansing herbs that you would recommend?

thanks in advance.

melley





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb from belize

From: "Melinda A. Correll" <Yellem@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:14:24 -0500

--------

thanks again paul



the wonderfully detailed post from Richard Ebensteiner suggested that the

plant i am seeking may be Mormordica charantia. do you agree with that?

i took the herb 3 years ago, and was having trouble with extremely dry skin,

severe itching, fatigue, and a sensitivity to the sun which resulted in

swelling and watery hives whenever i was exposed to the sun for more than a

few minutes. one of the locals suggested that i try the herb, so i stayed in

belize for 6 weeks, drinking 2 strong cups of the herb tea every day, and

eating on fruits and vegetables. the dryness and itching cleared up and i

felt much better. interestingly, my irises became very clear and bright,

eliciting comments even from complete strangers.

now, i am having similar problems, plus a few more. can you recommend a

herbal regimen that might be of use to me?

thanks in advance

melinda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Endometriosis

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:47:09 EST

--------

Endometriosis can be induced in laboratory animals by inserting tampons.

The dioxin produced by chlorine used to bleach virtually all commercial

brands is believed to be the cause.



Interesting correlation: 70% of American women use tampons and 60% have

endometriosis.  A few health food stores sell non-chlorine-bleached

cotton tampons.  All rayon tampons have dioxin, even if the manufacturers

don't use chlorine themselves.



Chaste tree berries (vitex agnus-castii) help:  20 drops tincture 2x per

day or 1 cup tea from fresh-powdered berries daily or 3 capsuls freshly

powdered berries daily can help.  It takes about 3 months to see results

and they may be needed for a year.



Pokeweed tincture- 1 drop, twice a day, building up to a level where you

feel it helping but in no case more than 8 drops twice a day, may help as

well.  Add a second drop after a week, etc, but when you feel it helping,

drop back one level.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Endometriosis

From: Debra Hultgren <dhultgre@NECA.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:08:53 -0500

--------

>Endometriosis can be induced in laboratory animals by inserting tampons.

>The dioxin produced by chlorine used to bleach virtually all commercial

>brands is believed to be the cause.

>

>Interesting correlation: 70% of American women use tampons and 60% have

>endometriosis.   I don't think so.  Where did you get the statistic that

>60% of tampon users have endometriosis???? Please clarify.  Thanks







____________________________________________________________________________

__Debra Hultgren ... Gardner, herbalist, Special Ed Administrator (D)

Reply E-mail to dhultgre@neca.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Endometriosis

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:09:08 GMT

--------

>Interesting correlation: 70% of American women use tampons and 60% have

>endometriosis.  A few health food stores sell non-chlorine-bleached

>cotton tampons.  All rayon tampons have dioxin, even if the manufacturers

>don't use chlorine themselves.



Single-line correlations like that are misleading and absurd. Look at the

lifestyles of women in America! You don't need tampons to create a false

statistic. With all the alcohol, coffee, lack of exercise, OTC drugs, poor

diet, obesity, abuse, boredom and grief, etc., it is nonsense to uphold a

single vector for such a common illness.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: DMSO and Carpral Tunnel

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:47:09 EST

--------

DMSO can be useful, but may not be benign.  It is highly reactive, which

is why it scavanges free radicals, but may actually create more free

radicals left over from the substances it reacts with.  Get medical grade

DMSO, which is purer- not industrial grade DMSO.  Always use very clean

hands to apply it and clean the skin prior to applying it.  Take strong

vitamin C supplements when you apply it to counteract the free radicals

produced secondarily.  Wash hands immediately after use so that the

residue won't take contaminants deeper into your body.



I would first try a deep massage with a penetrating linement- like Tiger

Balm linement, ***rest***, wrist braces (including while sleeping,

because if you lie on your side, you may have the tendency to bend your

wrists) and ergonomic work conditions.  Make certain of your diagnosis.

There are many carpral tunnel-like conditions that do not involve the

nerve going through the carpral tunnel.  If you actually have CTS, try

nervine tinctures like black cohosh, lavender or, if not nursing, St.

Johnswort.



I notice that many women get CTS after having babies, where the problem

may not be so much repetitive motion as new motions that the body has not

developed the strength for.  Nursing may require lots of pillows and the

optimum arrangement may change every few weeks or so as the baby grows.

I found the McClarren stroller "ergonomic" handles to put my hands at an

uncomfortable angle for pushing loads.  Getting a second stroller with

different handles- like an adjustable height bar across the top, may

help.  My accupuncturist had me do wrist curls while holding tin cans for

weights while sitting with my arms supported on arm wrests.



Also make sure that computer setups are comfortable, so that the affected

person does not have to hunch over or strain his or her neck to see the

monitor.  Shoulder position is very important to CTS.  A variety of

pointing devices should be used.  (I have a large Easyball, a comfortable

mouse and a glidepoint keyboard.)  And I make myself use keystrokes

rather than buttons where possible.  And take frequent breaks.



Herbs and linements, IOW, are the least of it.  Find the underlying

reason and change it.  Use linements and herbs only as supports.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: DMSO and Carpral Tunnel

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:59:55 +0000

--------

> There are many carpral tunnel-like conditions that do not involve the

> nerve going through the carpral tunnel.  If you actually have CTS, try

> nervine tinctures like black cohosh, lavender or, if not nursing, St.

> Johnswort.



<snip>



> Herbs and linements, IOW, are the least of it.  Find the underlying

> reason and change it.  Use linements and herbs only as supports.

>



I basically agree with with Karen. Don't rely on the herbs only.

Change the cause. Skip the

chemical (DMSO) and start with the herbs.



If it were me with this problem, I'd use an oil extract of St.john's

Wort, Comfrey, and Lobelia, applied liberally 3X day until healed.

This would support and promote healing in the nervous system and the

skeletomuscular system, and the lobelia would act as a relaxant to

ease the stiffness so common in these injuries that cause pain and

further injury.



Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



"I hope that's Valerian I smell!"





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: DMSO and Carpral Tunnel

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:09:14 GMT

--------

>My accupuncturist had me do wrist curls while holding tin cans for

>weights while sitting with my arms supported on arm wrests.



RSI is repetitive stress. It is NOT treated with exercise. This therapy is

utterly inappropriate in true cases of RSI.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Milk Thistle

From: DEANA <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:36:36 -0600

--------

I am sure most of you know this...but make sure when using Milk

Thistle you don't over-do it.  A couple a week is plenty.  It

can be more harmful then good if you take it every day for a long

period of time.  But, it is a good thing if you spend lots of time

in smokey places, in smog, or just in the harmful air that our

nation now is.



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Soy

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:02:38 EST

--------

<I have found in myself and in talking to others, a negative reaction to

soy

in a variety of forms.  In myself it produced at times rather severe

allergy

symptoms.  Just wanted to note this is a possibility when taking soy.>



Just wanted to point out that UNFERMENTED soy (tofu, soymilk,beans)

contains phytates which destroy bones.  So unless you consume some form

of animal protien, don't use unfermented soy.  Especially if you are a

woman.





Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Soy

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:28:29 -0800

--------

At 04:02 PM 1/13/97 EST, you wrote:



>Just wanted to point out that UNFERMENTED soy (tofu, soymilk,beans)

>contains phytates which destroy bones.  So unless you consume some form

>of animal protien, don't use unfermented soy.  Especially if you are a

>woman.



phytates do not destroy bones!!

what's the connection between animal protein and soy?

richard



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Soy

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:41:19 EST

--------

Phytic acids block the uptake of essential minerals, including calcium,

magnesium, iron and, especially zinc.  (Soy-based infant formula has

caused zinc deficiency in infants.)  In vegan diets, this will interfere

with bone formation, which is a constant ongoing process.  The process of

fermentation (to miso, tempe, etc.) will reduce the phytate content of

soybeans.  Soybeans have a higher content of phytates than do all other

legumes.



The hemaglutinin in unfermented soya promotes the clumping of red blood

cells, which leads to depressed O2 take-up and has been documented as a

growth supressant.  This is deactivated in the fermentation process.



Soy protien is denatured during the production of soymilk to remove the

trypsin inhibitor.  It is soaked in an alkaline solution.  This adversely

affects the digestibility of the protien in percipitated soy products.



I suspect that the inclusion of meat or fish along with products such as

tofu in traditional Asian cooking overcomes the effect of the phytic acid

by adding more minerals than the phytates can block.  I will have to

check my notes further to confirm exactly what the process is.



Dr. Mary Enig and Sally Fallon did some research on soya during the 1960s

which deal with phytic acid blocking of minerals and hemaglutinin.  An

article reviewing their work appeared in _Newlife_ around 1966.  There

are also references in Dr. Suzanne Paxton's paper, "Soy Protien Your Key

to Better Health".



I think that soy products have many excellent uses, especially for women

during menopause.  Obviously soy can be important in the diet.  My

concern is that women under 30 who do not otherwise have sources of

animal protien and who rely upon unfermented soy products, will be at

great risk for osteoporosis later in life.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:28:29 -0800 linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

writes:

>At 04:02 PM 1/13/97 EST, you wrote:

>

>>Just wanted to point out that UNFERMENTED soy (tofu, soymilk,beans)

>>contains phytates which destroy bones.  So unless you consume some form

>>of animal protien, don't use unfermented soy.  Especially if you are a

>>woman.

>

>phytates do not destroy bones!!

>what's the connection between animal protein and soy?

>richard





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Soy

From: "Charlene J. Jaworski" <Char5410@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:31:20 -0500

--------

   This is in response to the unfermented soy causing bone deterioration. Can

you refer me to where you've heard this? I've been in the business a very

long time, and have only heard positive things about all forms of soy,

unless, of course, you're allergic or suffer from systemic candida.

                                                               Char





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Soy

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:26:02 -0800

--------

karen;

thanks for the over view of phytates and soy. its a subject that i've been

interested in for

a while now.

when i responded to your post that said 'phytates destroys bones' i think i

knew at the time

that you meant that phytates bind minerals (esp. ca.).i just thought the

language used should

of been more precise.

do you have any information or know where i can find information about

phytates in other

foods (like wheat, rice, etc) and how cooking affects phytates in these

other foods.



richard.





>Soy protien is denatured during the production of soymilk to remove the

>trypsin inhibitor.  It is soaked in an alkaline solution.  This adversely

>affects the digestibility of the protien in percipitated soy products.

>

>I suspect that the inclusion of meat or fish along with products such as

>tofu in traditional Asian cooking overcomes the effect of the phytic acid

>by adding more minerals than the phytates can block.  I will have to

>check my notes further to confirm exactly what the process is.

>



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Soy

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:09:37 GMT

--------

>Phytic acids block the uptake of essential minerals, including calcium,

>magnesium, iron and, especially zinc.  (Soy-based infant formula has

>caused zinc deficiency in infants.)  In vegan diets, this will interfere

>with bone formation, which is a constant ongoing process.  The process of

>fermentation (to miso, tempe, etc.) will reduce the phytate content of

>soybeans.  Soybeans have a higher content of phytates than do all other

>legumes.



Cooking reduces phytic acid. You think people are eating soy beans raw?



>The hemaglutinin in unfermented soya promotes the clumping of red blood

>cells, which leads to depressed O2 take-up and has been documented as a

>growth supressant.  This is deactivated in the fermentation process.



Cooking reduces hemaglutinin. It is a protein, after all.



>Soy protien is denatured during the production of soymilk to remove the

>trypsin inhibitor.  It is soaked in an alkaline solution.  This adversely

>affects the digestibility of the protien in percipitated soy products.



Ambiguous. If this treatment removes the trypsin inhibitor, then it in fact

enhances digestibility, which is what I think you meant to say.



>I suspect that the inclusion of meat or fish along with products such as

>tofu in traditional Asian cooking overcomes the effect of the phytic acid

>by adding more minerals than the phytates can block.  I will have to

>check my notes further to confirm exactly what the process is.



Meats and fish are quite low in minerals, so this is just poppycock.



>Dr. Mary Enig and Sally Fallon did some research on soya during the 1960s

>which deal with phytic acid blocking of minerals and hemaglutinin.  An

>article reviewing their work appeared in _Newlife_ around 1966.  There

>are also references in Dr. Suzanne Paxton's paper, "Soy Protien Your Key

>to Better Health".



Probably this research has been superceded by other research that shows that

this is not a big issue.



>I think that soy products have many excellent uses, especially for women

>during menopause.  Obviously soy can be important in the diet.  My

>concern is that women under 30 who do not otherwise have sources of

>animal protien and who rely upon unfermented soy products, will be at

>great risk for osteoporosis later in life.

>

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com



Soy-dependent cultures don't have higher levels of osteoporosis. The fact

remains that exercise level in one's early adulthood is the primary factor in

development of this ill.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Liver and milk thistle

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:02:53 -0800

--------

May I ask- What were your symptoms when you were having candida problems

from too many antibiotics? You said you took milk thistle for a year to

correct this.  Thank you for your help.  I think I might have a weak

liver.  Linda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Liver and milk thistle

From: Carolyn Johnson Lewis <CBJLword@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:53:06 -0500

--------

Linda,



I developed allergies to many foods such as wheat and dairy, and the symptoms

I can best describe were (and still are) flu-like: massive head and sinus

congestion.

Weakness in muscles and joint pain, the horrible candida "itch" which

occurred in private parts as well as eyes and ears, an unbelievable craving

for sugar,  and severe highs and lows, probably from the sugar.  The milk

thistle was only part of a huge overthrow of my eating patterns, but clearly

has played a strong part in my ongoing recovery.  Staying on the right foods

is the hard part for me when so many are causing the problems, and all around

me people are eating things I can't have without serious setbacks (even now).

I guess what I should say is I learned what I should take to help myself, and

am much better at it than a year ago, but I still have to tend to my diet

carefully.



I'm no expert, just another sufferer.  But what are your symptoms?



Carol





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Liver and milk thistle

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:30:26 -0500

--------

Carol,



As you are aware, experience is the best teacher.  Some years ago I also went

through my own version of what you have recounted.  Hindsight causes me to

agree with those who say herbs can be of some help in most health problems,

however if people want their condition to be healed, in most cases, they will

find the key in their own habits.  Some people call this a "Change of Life

Style", etc., which still boils down to HABIT.



One of the old timers in the field of healing was a gent named Dr. Norman W.

Walker who died at the ripe old age of 114 years.  His book "Become Younger"

explains much of the present day contribution to health problems in simple

terms.  He also wrote a number of other useful books.  If you are interested

check your local health food stores - if they don't have copies, they can get

them.



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Liver and milk thistle

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:53:34 GMT

--------

>One of the old timers in the field of healing was a gent named Dr. Norman W.

>Walker who died at the ripe old age of 114 years.  His book "Become Younger"

>explains much of the present day contribution to health problems in simple

>terms.  He also wrote a number of other useful books.  If you are interested

>check your local health food stores - if they don't have copies, they can

get

>them.

>

>Chuck



Walker's theories are basically Naturopathic bunk. Just because he had the

(Yang) constitution of an ox, doesn't mean that the rest of us can follow the

absurd lifestyle he proposes.



Yang constitution people NEED eliminative lifestyles. The rest of us, the

overwhelming majority of us in fact, need supportive lifestyles. This is like

trying to set your body concept on a supermodel. They are NOT representative

of the masses, and you can starve yourself nearly to death, you won't end up

looking like Care Otis.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Endometriosis sources

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:25:29 EST

--------

The best write-up of the endometriosis/tampon connection is "Embarassed

to Death: Hidden Dangers of the Tampon Industry" by Karen Happert in the

2/7/95 Village Voice.  It is available on the web at

http://critpath.org/-tracy/village.html



She cites an animal study from the University of Florida Dept of

Medicine, which I believe to be "Immunoresponsiveness in Endometriosis:

Implications of Estrogenic Toxicants by SE Reir, DC Martin, RE Bowman and

JL Becker.  EPH Vol 103, Supplement 7.  Abstract at

http://ephnet1,nichs.nih.gov:80/docs/1995/103(s7)/rier.html



The information on vitex and its length of administration is in Susun

Weed's "Menopausal Years The Wise Woman Way."



The information and dosage on pokeweed is from a personal consultation

with Susun Weed.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:30:36 -0800 Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

writes:



>Hi Karen,

>

>Would you please share your sources for the above recommendations.

>Thanks

>in advance.

>

>Be well,

>Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

>Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

>                                  Herbal Indulgence

>                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Lobelia

From: Norma Butts <nbutts@PORTAL.CA>

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:31:06 -0800

--------

I was trying to find lobelia herb to put in a mullein compress that Anita

posted.  I was told today in one store that it is illegal to sell lobelia in

Canada.  Does anyone know of another herb that I could use as a replacement?

Thanks, Norma





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Lobelia

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:47:57 -0900

--------

At 07:31 PM 1/13/97 -0800, Norma Butts wrote:

>I was trying to find lobelia herb to put in a mullein compress that Anita

>posted.  I was told today in one store that it is illegal to sell lobelia in

>Canada.  Does anyone know of another herb that I could use as a replacement?

>Thanks, Norma

>

>

  The Lobelia would be difficult to replace.  It's action in the compress is

to relax and soothe tissues.  Perhaps Viburnum o. and Wild lettuce would do

the trick or maybe Black and blue cohosh.  I'll have to think some more on

this one.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Lobelia

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:11:58 -0900

--------

At 07:31 PM 1/13/97 -0800, Norma Butts wrote:

>I was trying to find lobelia herb to put in a mullein compress that Anita

>posted.  I was told today in one store that it is illegal to sell lobelia in

>Canada.  Does anyone know of another herb that I could use as a replacement?

>Thanks, Norma

>

>

Lobelia does such a perfect job in this one is hard pressed to find an equal

substitute but there are many good antispasmodics that might be used as

well.  Cypripedium pub. (Ladies slipper) and Scutellaria (Skullcap) might be

used together.  Two others would be Black and Blue cohosh.  If you use

Scutellaria, don't boil it.  Add it after boiling and steep for 20-30 min.

Other things that might be added to this healing compress are Viscum album

(mistletoe), Valeriana (valerian) and maybe Asafedita.  But lobelia would be

my first choice. Perhaps you could grow your own.  Is it illegal to mail

order Lobelia from an American mail order herb company?  Or do you have

someone who could send you some?

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Lobelia

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:14:43 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-18 22:23:11 EST, you write:



>  Is it illegal to mail

>order Lobelia from an American mail order herb company?  Or do you have

>someone who could send you some?



No, it is done regularly and thus far, without problems.



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Michael Bailes <frgntgar@FASTLINK.COM.AU>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:39:52 +1100

--------

How does the herbal community feel about using the herbs and traditions of

an occupied country?

Following from Ricters newsletter:

1. Tibetan Traditional Medicine Enjoys World Popularity

------------------------------------------------------------------------

   XINING (Dec. 26) XINHUA - Foreigners have started to take an  interest in

reading the four books of the famous "pharmacopoeia of the  Traditional Tibetan

Medicine", which are even too difficult for most  Tibetan people.

   According to the survey of the Northwest Research Institute of the  Chinese

Academy of Sciences there are 191 categories, or 2,200 kinds, of  plant

medicines, 150 types of animal medicines, and 57 kinds of mineral  medicines on

the Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau.

   Tibetan medicine is a system of pure natural medicine. Statistics show  that

there are more than 170 companies and 40 research institutes  developing the

natural plant medicines, with 500 products being sold to  more than 20 countries

and regions. Medical organizations have also been  set up in those countries and

regions.

   Pills of the Tibetan medicine are sold to Nepal, Bhutan, India, Japan,

Thailand and Hong Kong and Macao, at prices ranging from several dozen  yuan to

more than 100 yuan each.

   A professor at the Beijing Medical University said: "The global

pharmaceutical industry faces serious challenges. People tend to use  more

natural medicine, which cause little pollution and are free of  side-effects.

Tibetan medicine just meets the need."

   "Western medicine is confronted with challenges, but we see Tibetan  medicine

as very beneficial to people," said Doctor Joachim Bruch of  Germany's Essen

University. He hoped that he could combine advanced  production techniques of

his country with the abundant natural medicine  resources on the Qinghai-Tibet

Plateau.







Michael Bailes

The Fragrant Garden

Portsmouth Road

Erina. N.S.W. 2250

Australia.

Int fax 61 43 651979 Phone 043 677322

frgntgar@worldgrp.fastlink.com.au (Michael Bailes)

Next Chilli festival March 6/7  March 1997





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:53:39 -0600

--------

At 07:39 PM 1/14/97 +1100, you wrote:

>How does the herbal community feel about using the herbs and traditions of

>an occupied country?

>Following from Ricters newsletter:

>1. Tibetan Traditional Medicine Enjoys World Popularity



        I feel like that one should do their homework and find out who is to

benefit from using them.  If it is really the people of that country, then I

feel it is okay.  On the other hand, if it is the government utilizing the

people in a inhumane manner to produce these herbs, then I feel that we

should not support that by using their herbs and traditions.  This is really

generalizing, though.



-Valerie





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:59:15 +0000

--------

> How does the herbal community feel about using the herbs and traditions of

> an occupied country?

>



I won't speak for the herbal community, but I will speak for me.

Knowledge of other traditions and herbs may lead to a greater

understanding of healing and plants on general. But as far as using

plant medicines, I'm bioregional. Learn what you can, but use

locally. Don't import an herb 13,000 miles when dandelion will do the

job.



check out Bioregionalism and fad herbs at my homepage.

Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



"It's easy to harvest wild plants, the hard part is not harvesting."





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Carolyn Johnson Lewis <CBJLword@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:15:16 -0500

--------

Not to wax philosophical but... I think there are many communities that are

not bounded by political lines.  Spiritual communities are one type; herbal

communities are another.  These communities are one of the ways that we get

to ignore political boundaries and dig into what's truly useful: the sharing

of important information to help people get well.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:29:09 -0500

--------

Michael,



You bring up an interesting point.  If the source of information,  the

Pharmecoepia, is still in its original form, it is the truth as the lamas

learned it over the centuries, and likely contains none of the western

intellectual/commercial bias.  I doubt the lamas had an agenda.



However, a major problem occurred with chairman Mao's pals taking over Tibet,

since their basic assumption - The End Justifies the Means -  biases

everything they do.  They have no use for truth unless it serves their

purposes.  The party line (the real agenda) still controls Tibet, inspite of

what western TV anchors feed daily to their watching admirers.  One principle

of the agenda is - two steps forward, one step back (when necessary).



The true Dali Lama is presently in India, having fled there when the invaders

started their wonderful new cultural revolution - the name given to what was

really their  murder inc. intellectual/ethnic cleansing operation in Tibet.

 Most of the lamas in Tibet were killed, and their monestaries destroyed.

 Had the Dali Lama not fled Tibet, he would very likely be dead.  Last year

the invaders "discovered" their own version of the Dali Lama, and with

appropriate pomp and circumstance - installed him as their Officially

Approved Dali Lama.



Unless the so called famous four books of Tibetan information were cross

checked with what is already known and available of Tibetan medicine, I would

consider this whole thing as a cheap publicity stunt prior to the beginning

of a commercial venture to exploit  the "Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau" resources.

 I doubt the Chinese puppet government, the Chinese Academy of Science, or

the dudes at the university in Beijing are interested in the truths of the

Tibetan lamas medical knowledge.  They are in it for the bucks.



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:47:17 GMT

--------

>Unless the so called famous four books of Tibetan information were cross

>checked with what is already known and available of Tibetan medicine, I

would

>consider this whole thing as a cheap publicity stunt prior to the beginning

>of a commercial venture to exploit  the "Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau" resources.

> I doubt the Chinese puppet government, the Chinese Academy of Science, or

>the dudes at the university in Beijing are interested in the truths of the

>Tibetan lamas medical knowledge.  They are in it for the bucks.

>

>Chuck



How profoundly cynical! Conflating the academic Chinese with the military and

bureaucratic government is simply bigotry. It is certainly not an accurate

depiction of the hearts of the intelligensia, ESPECIALLY since the last ten

or fifteen years have seen a near-complete reversal of the Cultural

Revolution dogma.



The Tibetan pharmacopeia is extant in its ancient form, but the

conceptualization of Tibetan medicine suffers from the same nonrational basis

as Ayurveda. That is, it is a system of cure that operates within a system of

spiritualist praxis and worldview. If you are under the care of a Tibetan

'shaman/priest,' AND you undertake some of the purificatory practices of that

tradition (as Bob Flaws and others make clear is essential to such healing)

then the medicine you receive may well be reliable.



If, instead, you are applying tradition in a near-vacuum, you are very likely

to go no where or to the wrong place entirely. The circulation of magical

Tibetan pills over the last decade or two is a case in point. WHO KNOWS what

the results of taking these magical implements is?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Michael Bailes <frgntgar@FASTLINK.COM.AU>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:45:14 +1100

--------

> I doubt the Chinese puppet government, the Chinese Academy of Science, or

>the dudes at the university in Beijing are interested in the truths of the

>Tibetan lamas medical knowledge.  They are in it for the bucks.

>

Thanks for your comment Chuck. I have one book on Tibetan Medicine "Tibetan

Medicine and Psychiatry- The Diamond Healing" by Terry Clifford, Aquarian

press 1984, isbn 0 85030 406 7.  Which I find imcomprehensible because, I

guess, the Tibetan medical  system is so much a part of their culture which

is so foreign to me. A culture which the Chines Goverment is systematically

destroying.





Michael Bailes

The Fragrant Garden

Portsmouth Road

Erina. N.S.W. 2250

Australia.

Int fax 61 43 651979 Phone 043 677322

Next Chilli festival  8/9  March 1997

frgntgar@worldgrp.fastlink.com.au (Michael Bailes)

"I've decided to skip 'holistic.'  I don't know what it means, and I don't

want to know.

That may seem extreme, but I followed the same strategy toward 'Gestalt'

and 'The Twist,' and lived to tell the tale."

Calvin Trillin











==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Barb Schommer <BagLady911@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:45:14 -0500

--------

i am in need of information on the eastern red cedar... can you send me to a

place i can get some... or will you help me





thanks





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet. Herbal rape of occupied country?

From: Mike McLain <Watcher@CSOLUTION.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:06:44 -0500

--------

HE>i am in need of information on the eastern red cedar... can you send me to a

HE>place i can get some... or will you help me





HE>thanks



What part of the tree are you after and how much?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Symptoms & milk thistle

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:01:05 -0800

--------

Carolyn:

I cannot eat much sugar.  20 years ago diagnosed with low blood sugar.

I certainly have not abstained from sugar all that time.  However, when

I CAN I feel much better.  I really have to work on not eating what

everyone else does and eat alot of protein.  It is discouraging

sometimes.  I get headaches, sinus mostly, tiredness, emotional lows

with eating sugar.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Symptoms & milk thistle

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:47:54 -0900

--------

At 03:01 PM 1/14/97 -0800, Mike & Linda Shipley wrote:

>Carolyn:

>I cannot eat much sugar.  20 years ago diagnosed with low blood sugar.

>I certainly have not abstained from sugar all that time.  However, when

>I CAN I feel much better.  I really have to work on not eating what

>everyone else does and eat alot of protein.  It is discouraging

>sometimes.  I get headaches, sinus mostly, tiredness, emotional lows

>with eating sugar.

>

>

I have found that consuming alot of vitamin B 12 seems to help me along with

vitamin C.  When I have low blood sugar headaches and those emotional swings

I take some liquid B vitamins and it helps almost immediately.  It is

especially helpful when I take some before studying or doing "brain" things.

It clears my head.  I also take Calcium, magnesium and chromium daily.

Chromium helps the body balance blood sugars.  It is best to go cold turkey

off the sugar.  You will find that suddenly you have taste buds and don't

need so much seasoning to make your food taste better, especially salt.  If

you want something satisfying, try eating something spicy rather than sugary.

  Every time you binge on sugar, you put more stress on your adrenals and

pancreas.  If you don't curb sugar bingeing, you could end up with diabetes.

It is not uncommon for a hypoglycaemic person to develop diabetes and even

swing from one condition to the other periodically.  It may seem difficult

but quitting sugar is the best in the long run.

  These days I don't even get tempted when others are eating cake and

doughnuts. I just think about how it makes me feel and I have no trouble

saying, "no thankyou".  It bothers others more than it does me.  They seem

to feel unfulfilled if they aren't stuffing me with goodies.  It's a

cultural thing.

  Best of luck and hang in there.  It can be licked.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Symptoms & milk thistle

From: "Nancy A. Rubeck" <Amanla@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:46:15 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-14 18:34:50 EST, n5wuh@FULLNET.NET (Mike & Linda

Shipley) writes:



evening...



have you ever been on a correct diet...?

w/ lots of veggies also...?

and w/ three protein snacks, during the day and something before you go to

bed...?

if you keep this up, your sugar desires will lessen...

as your blood sugar will balance more...

also life style changes, help...



Nancy+

<< However, when

 I CAN I feel much better.  I really have to work on not eating what

 everyone else does and eat alot of protein.  It is discouraging >>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Symptoms & milk thistle

From: Carolyn Johnson Lewis <CBJLword@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:31:03 -0500

--------

Linda,



I just want to add, as someone else mentioned here, too, that what turned my

health around was an organic nutritionist who in one session taught me what

and how to eat.  She was crucial in my turnaround.  (And it was not a fast

turnaround, mostly because of the sugar cravings).  My sister recommends a

book called Sugar Blues.  I have not read it, but as she writes a natural

foods co-op newsletter, she has better sources than I, and heartily

recommended it to me.  I have found, as you mentioned, that if I can

withstand the sugar craving the short minute it takes to get protein into my

stomach, the protein seems to take care of the sugar craving.  I don't know

why.  I am not completely off sugar either, and keep getting knocked off my

good eating plan by holidays and vacations.  Always work to be done in that

area.  But the nutritionist with an all-around eating and supplement plan was

the crucial starting key.  A chiropractor was the next.  Now I'm looking for

someone in my area with knowledge of Chinese medicine.  Good luck!



Carol





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Migraines...

From: Duncan MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod <ejanison@MAIL.TWD.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:56:48 -0500

--------

Does anyone out there know of any possible herbal remedies for a woman who

suffers from chronic migraine headaches (more than one per week)?



-----------------------------------------------------------------

|          ED JANISON          |         EJANISON@TWD.NET       |

-----------------------------------------------------------------

| I was born 400 years ago in the highlands of Scotland.  I am  |

| IMMORTAL, and I am not alone.  For centuries, we have waited  |

| for the time of the GATHERING, when the stroke of a sword and |

| the fall of a head will release the power of the QUICKENING.  |

| In the end, there can be only one.                            |

-----------------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:19:58 -0800

--------

At 06:56 PM 1/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Does anyone out there know of any possible herbal remedies for a woman who

>suffers from chronic migraine headaches (more than one per week)?

>

>-----------------------------------------------------------------

>|          ED JANISON          |         EJANISON@TWD.NET       |

>-----------------------------------------------------------------

>| I was born 400 years ago in the highlands of Scotland.  I am  |

>| IMMORTAL, and I am not alone.  For centuries, we have waited  |

>| for the time of the GATHERING, when the stroke of a sword and |

>| the fall of a head will release the power of the QUICKENING.  |

>| In the end, there can be only one.                            |

>-----------------------------------------------------------------

>



The classic herb used for Migraine headaches (prevention and treatment) is

Feverfew (Tanacetum parthenium)....a member of the sunflower family, grows

prolifically throughout Europe and the US.  The name is a corruption of the

word febrifuge, used go signify its tonic and fever-dispelling properties.

In The Family Herbal, John Hill noted...."In the worst headache, this herb

exceeds whatever else is known."  Recent interest in feverfew as a treatment

for migraine headaches has increased tremendously.  A 1983 survey in Great

Britain found that 70 percent of 270 migraine sufferers who had used

feverfew daily for prolonged periods claimed that the herb had decreased the

frequency and/or intensity of their attacks.



Six-month migraine studies (Johnson ES, et al.:Efficacy of feverfew as

prophylactic treatment of migraine. Br Med J 291, 569-573, 1985) and (Murphy

JJ, Heptinstall S, and Mitchel JRA: Randomized double blind placebo

controlled trial of feverfew in migraine prevention. Lancet ii, 189-192,

1988) made no reports of toxic reactions in patients taking feverfew.

Chewing the leaves, however, may result in apthous ulcerations and some

sensitive persons will develop an exudative dermatitis from external contact

(Awang DVC: Feverfew. Can Pharm j 122, 266-270, 1989.)



Many have also reported successful results using the essential oil of

Lavender (Lavendula officinalis.)



Be well,

Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: DEANA <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:06:09 -0600

--------

FEv

Feverfew is good for migraines...

for normal headaches (if any are normal), white willow Bark...

as a good replacement for aspirin.



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:18:56 -0800

--------

At 06:56 PM 1/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Does anyone out there know of any possible herbal remedies for a woman who

>suffers from chronic migraine headaches (more than one per week)?



Yes, drink a tea of Angelica (Angelica Archangelica) is the bes for your case.

Twaice at day of when the headaches begin.

Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: Carolyn Johnson Lewis <CBJLword@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:30:13 -0500

--------

I am not as familiar with migraines, but do know dairy products, particularly

cheese of any kind, causes severe headaches in my 8-year-old daughter.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: "V. Suzanne Drake" <tanager@CRL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:24:47 -0800

--------

Feverfew.  My son, who has terrible, frequent migraines is going to try

Feverfew at my suggestion.  I need to know, in your experiences, how long

it takes before it is effective and how much, what quantity, you take it.

Also, in your experiences, *is* it effective?  Suzanne  Please reply to:

tanager@crl.com .  Thank you very much for any help you can offer.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: Madeleine Ward <maddyward@JUNO.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:16:01 EST

--------

>From what I have read on Feverfew, it may take one week or as long as

three months

to obtain the desired results against various types of migraine

headaches.  I know  that mine were hormone and stress related.  Have been

taking Feverfew now for

about five or six months and have noticed a decided decrease in my

migraines.

I usually take one tablet in the morning daily.  Can also be taken if one

can detect

the onset of a migraine.



Hope this information helps.



Madeleine



On Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:24:47 -0800 "V. Suzanne Drake" <tanager@CRL.COM>

writes:

>Feverfew.  My son, who has terrible, frequent migraines is going to

>try

>Feverfew at my suggestion.  I need to know, in your experiences, how

>long

>it takes before it is effective and how much, what quantity, you take

>it.

>Also, in your experiences, *is* it effective?  Suzanne  Please reply

>to:

>tanager@crl.com .  Thank you very much for any help you can offer.

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: DEANA <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:34:59 -0600

--------

It is effective but it may take quite qwhile to work.  That means it

may need to build up in your system, and you made need to take it

for over a week.



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:13:30 -0900

--------

At 06:56 PM 1/14/97 -0500, Duncan MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod wrote:

>Does anyone out there know of any possible herbal remedies for a woman who

>suffers from chronic migraine headaches (more than one per week)?



Has she suffered injury to her back or head?  Does she have allergies?  Does

she also suffer frequent colds?  Does she have irregular menstrual cycles?

There are many things that contrubute to migraines.  The above mentioned are

often involved.  It would be good to get a diagnosis.  My daughter suffered

migraines and hers were a combination of allergies, menstrual problems and

suppressed emotions.  We used a combination of acupuncture, homeopathy and

chinese herbs to cure her problems.  She no longer has them.  It is

imperative to get a diagnosis from a qualified practitioner (not an MD, they

are worthless in this matter).  In the mean time you may give her Feverfew.

Be aware that she may develop allergies to this after long use so you must

get a good diagnosis.  Israeli Feverfew is the best (Mygrafew, I think).

>

>-----------------------------------------------------------------

>|          ED JANISON          |         EJANISON@TWD.NET       |

>-----------------------------------------------------------------

>| I was born 400 years ago in the highlands of Scotland.  I am  |

>| IMMORTAL, and I am not alone.  For centuries, we have waited  |

>| for the time of the GATHERING, when the stroke of a sword and |

>| the fall of a head will release the power of the QUICKENING.  |

>| In the end, there can be only one.                            |

>-----------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines...

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:22:22 -0500

--------

D> Does anyone out there know of any possible herbal remedies for a woman who

suffers from chronic migraine headaches (more than one per week)?



Duncan,



It's been my experience that well meaning advice to others is acted upon only

when  it becomes the other person's idea.  Good luck.



Migraines are no fun.  One of the old timers in medicine (died at 114 years)

was Dr. Norman W. Walker.  It was his thesis that most health problems were

due to internal toxemia and malnutrition.  His track record supported his

opinions.  It was his conclusion that migraines and such were the result of

inappropriate diet  creating excess toxic conditions in the colon.  His

answer (though not politically correct) was colonic irrigation - a super

enema.



Anyone suffering from migraines can check this out for themselves, if while

suffering a migraine, they go to a colonic therapist and get flushed out - in

most cases they will find their migraine clears up in 20-30 minutes.



This is one of the interesting situations in which all migraine sufferers I

know, who have tried it, say it works.  Those who said otherwise were giving

opinions, they had not tried it.



Of course this is only a temporary treatment for the condition - it is no

cure.  The cure requires a change of lifestyle - which means - HABITS, and

habits are hard to change - people need to have their own reasons, or it is a

lost cause.



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Migraines 101

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:57:58 +0000

--------

Migraines certainly can be tricky. First and foremost is lifestyle,

not herbs. When do you get the headache. Is it in response to a

certain food, a certain interaction with a particular person, a

certain stress, and environmental toxin. Does it happen at the same

time of the day? You need to look into this stuff first, to see if

there is some rhyme or reason to the headaches. A Drug side effect

perhaps? Treat the cause, not the symptom. This is often difficult to

track down with migraines. This is the way to cure the magraines so

that they don't come back.



Meanwhile, here's the bandaid herbalism that goes with it:



If you can catch the migraine early, the salicylate herbs (willow,

oak, poplar) can be all you need. Calming herbs (skullcap, valerian,

pedicularis, etc.) can also be very useful.



Once the migraine becomes full blown, there are a few ways to treat

it:



1. Vasodilators - some headaches will respond to increased flow to

the brain. Try Ginko, Feverfew



2. Vasoconstrictors - some respond to decreased flow to the brain ...

try .... coffee



3. Some headaches respond to neither. You're left with the calming

herbs, the salicylates, or anything that works. Perhaps even opium

will be of value.



How can you tell which kind of headache you have? Next time you get a

headache, drink a little coffee. If it get better ... use

vasoconstrictors (maybe more coffee), if it gets worse ... try the

feverfew or ginko.



There are a number of other vaso constricting or dilating herbs that

are useful, I've only mentioned a sample of a few safe popular

ones.



Once you know what type of headache, when the headaches occur, and in

response to what stress .... then you can eliminate the stress, and

take something before the headache becomes bad.







Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



-insert snappy herb joke here-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:27:06 +0000

--------

> Realy, the best for this is a tea cuo of "Angelica Archangelica Root", and

> works fine in all cases. I insist. Is the result of years of investigation

> and coincident with many experienced herbalists.

> Carlos Becerra>

>

>



Carlos,



I am not surprised that angelica works on migraines. It is an herb

with very complicated  chemistry. Still, it would fit into one of

those categories. Angelica is a very warming herb that increases

circulation, and is a uterine vasodilator, and I assume a vasodilator

in general.



This may be your herb of choice, but it is not the only herb

possible.



To say that it works in ALL cases though, I wouldn't agree with you.

The hard part about migraines is there are different types, with

different physiological causes and no one herb or drug will work on

ALL migraines.



Also, the herb you take for your migraine should be taylored to your

constitutional needs. A migraine that is pms related with a slow to

start menstruation would be ideal for Angelica. A pregnant woman, or

one that is into their moon and bleeding heavily probably should

avoid this root. I could forsee the angelica actually making

matters worse in some instances.



I am not discounting you, as your opinion is valuable, just throwing

in my two cents. BTW, puedo entiendir tu engles perfectamente, La

grammetica no es importante; es tu pensiementos

interesantes solamente.











Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



"I hope that's Valerian I smell!"





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:19:39 -0600

--------

Just to add, migraines occur, usually, when the blood vessels in the skalp

constrict, thus allowing less blood to the surface area of the brain, then

the vessels dilate, thus allowing a surge of blood to come forth.  This is

the sensation known as an "aura."  Migraines usually occur only on one side

of the brain or the other.  Some research has found that migraines occur in

people with lower enkephalins, the brain's own pain relieving compound, thus

suggesting that opiates and other analgesics maybe more than a "bandaid."

Still others suggest that migraines occur due to lowered localized

metabolism within the brain that initially decreases the blood flow to the

brain.  This would appear to suggest that, possibly, psychostimulants, such

as Ritalin, would decrease the likelyhood of subsequent migraines, just a

thought.  I do not know of any herbal psychostimulants other than caffiene.

In fact a drug prescribed by doctors for both migraines and cluser headaches

contains Ergotamine and caffeine.  Maybe some suggestions?



To receive information about migraines you can send a SASE (two stamps) to:



The National Headache Foundation

Department FD

5252 N. Western Ave.

Chicago, IL.  60625



-Valerie



At 11:57 AM 1/15/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Migraines certainly can be tricky. First and foremost is lifestyle,

>not herbs. When do you get the headache. Is it in response to a

>certain food, a certain interaction with a particular person, a

>certain stress, and environmental toxin. Does it happen at the same

>time of the day? You need to look into this stuff first, to see if

>there is some rhyme or reason to the headaches. A Drug side effect

>perhaps? Treat the cause, not the symptom. This is often difficult to

>track down with migraines. This is the way to cure the magraines so

>that they don't come back.

>

>Meanwhile, here's the bandaid herbalism that goes with it:

>

>If you can catch the migraine early, the salicylate herbs (willow,

>oak, poplar) can be all you need. Calming herbs (skullcap, valerian,

>pedicularis, etc.) can also be very useful.

>

>Once the migraine becomes full blown, there are a few ways to treat

>it:

>

>1. Vasodilators - some headaches will respond to increased flow to

>the brain. Try Ginko, Feverfew

>

>2. Vasoconstrictors - some respond to decreased flow to the brain ...

>try .... coffee

>

>3. Some headaches respond to neither. You're left with the calming

>herbs, the salicylates, or anything that works. Perhaps even opium

>will be of value.

>

>How can you tell which kind of headache you have? Next time you get a

>headache, drink a little coffee. If it get better ... use

>vasoconstrictors (maybe more coffee), if it gets worse ... try the

>feverfew or ginko.

>

>There are a number of other vaso constricting or dilating herbs that

>are useful, I've only mentioned a sample of a few safe popular

>ones.

>

>Once you know what type of headache, when the headaches occur, and in

>response to what stress .... then you can eliminate the stress, and

>take something before the headache becomes bad.

>

>

>

>Howie Brounstein

>howieb@teleport.com

>http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html

>

>-insert snappy herb joke here-

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:09:40 GMT

--------

Kathy wrote:



> And, if the migraines are always centered in and around hormone changes or

the

> menstrual cycle--any advice for that? I asked this once before and Paul

said

> this was not a proper diagnosis from which to suggest a remedy.



It remains so. 'Hormone regulation' is a biomedical measure, not a holistic

one. I have seen literally hundreds of cases where the most disasterous

therapies have been carried out based on this hopelessly simplistic clinical

measure.



>I am not sure

> what else needs to be diagnosed as the doctors say it is hormone

fluxuations

> and they change too fast and too frequently to measure or know exactly.

Years

> ago they prescribed progesterone--didn't help. Then they tried a

prescriptive

> med. (can't remember name) which helped (but didn't elminate) and made me

> very nauseous.



These problems are not that hard to understand, though they may be hard to

treat (since they are very often directly associated with HOW a person is

living---including their psychological life, of course). Oops! Don't have a

handy clinical measure for that? Whatever is a healer to do....



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:34:37 -0800

--------

At 11:57 AM 1/15/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Migraines certainly can be tricky. First and foremost is lifestyle,

>not herbs. When do you get the headache. Is it in response to a

>certain food, a certain interaction with a particular person, a

>certain stress, and environmental toxin. Does it happen at the same

>time of the day? You need to look into this stuff first, to see if

>there is some rhyme or reason to the headaches. A Drug side effect

>perhaps? Treat the cause, not the symptom.



just thought i'd add the chinese medicine prospective on migranes.

a quick look at the book 'the practice of chinese medicine ' by giovanni

maciocia

lists 17 causes, none of which originate in the head itself.



richard

(fresh out of snappy jokes)





<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:44:15 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-15 15:59:17 EST, you write:



>There are a number of other vaso constricting or dilating herbs that

>are useful, I've only mentioned a sample of a few safe popular

>ones.

>

>Once you know what type of headache, when the headaches occur, and in

>response to what stress .... then you can eliminate the stress, and

>take something before the headache becomes bad.

>

>

>

>Howie Brounstein



Howie,



Could you please name some of the other vaso dialating or restricting

herbs--especially one to replace the coffee--uck! I am one of those few who

do not like the taste or smell of the  vile brew! <:o)



And, if the migrains are always centered in and around hormone changes or the

menstrual cycle--any advice for that? I asked this once before and Paul said

this was not a proper diagnosis from which to suggest a remedy. I am not sure

what else needs to be diagnosed as the doctors say it is hormone fluxuations

and they change too fast and too frequently to measure or know exactly. Years

ago they prescribed progesterone--didn't help. Then they tried a prescriptive

med. (can't remember name) which helped (but didn't elminate) and made me

very nauseous.



Thanks much,



Kathy



P.S. For others who have the same problem: Tiger Balm sometimes helps and

also Peppermint & Lavendar (or Lavendin) Essential Oil on temples and stress

or pain areas.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:45:18 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-15 17:00:50 EST, you write:



>>>

>Realy, the best for this is a tea cuo of "Angelica Archangelica Root", and

>works fine in all cases. I insist. Is the result of years of investigation

>and coincident with many experienced herbalists.

>Carlos Becerra>

>

>



Carlos,



Are there other names for this herb? I ask because I have never heard of it.



Thanks much,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:02:44 -0800

--------

At 11:45 PM 1/15/97 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-15 17:00:50 EST, you write:

>

>>>>

>>Realy, the best for this is a tea cuo of "Angelica Archangelica Root", and

>>works fine in all cases. I insist. Is the result of years of investigation

>>and coincident with many experienced herbalists.

>>Carlos Becerra>

>>

>>

>

>Carlos,

>

>Are there other names for this herb? I ask because I have never heard of it.

>

>Thanks much,

>

>Kathy

>

>in German: Engelwurz; in English: Angelica. IN spanish is named too:

"Yerba del Espiritu Santo. I don't know other names, but...

Carlos





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:53:41 GMT

--------

>just thought i'd add the chinese medicine prospective on migranes.

>a quick look at the book 'the practice of chinese medicine ' by giovanni

>maciocia

>lists 17 causes, none of which originate in the head itself.

>

>richard

>(fresh out of snappy jokes)



Then he leaves out a few. For one thing, migraine can be caused by a blow to

the head. Or by reading too many of my posts....



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:11:51 GMT

--------

> Just thought I'd add that when I turned 30 I started getting migraines.

> One day I decided that it might be a menstrual thing so I did the basil



Basal.



> body temperature/graph to see if I could make any kind of connection and

> found that on the day I ovulated I had a migraine.

>

> I do not know if this was the cause but I did this little self study for

> 8 months continuous and each time migraine occured during ovulation

> according to body temp.



That doesn't tell you the 'cause.' It tells you the coincidence.



Ovulation is the period of maximum Yang for a woman...it is not surprising

that a Yang-type illness like severe headache occurs at that point. Yang

energy is Hot, and rises, and the skull is a 'box of bones' and cannot

circulate out large amounts of abnormal Qi.



> Today I use imitrex only when absolutely necessary, and stick to the

> herbal change of life type blends which keeps me well balanced.  For once

> upon a time I lived in fear of MIGRAINE but herbs have definitely changed

> all that.



The causes are ALWAYS associated with defective lifestyle. Ovulation itself

is NOT a cause.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Lisa Saul <lisas@MINDSPRING.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:31:52 -0500

--------

i also get migraines every month,ususally right at the end of my cycle .I

am taking a low estrogen birth control pill...one of my clients suggested

using wild yam cream to increase progesterone...What do y'all think about

using the cream on the pill?



/////////////////////////

?









Lisa

Organica_A Natural Hair Salon

http://www.mindspring.com/~lisas/organica.html





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:49:38 EST

--------

Just thought I'd add that when I turned 30 I started getting migraines.

One day I decided that it might be a menstrual thing so I did the basil

body temperature/graph to see if I could make any kind of connection and

found that on the day I ovulated I had a migraine.



I do not know if this was the cause but I did this little self study for

8 months continuous and each time migraine occured during ovulation

according to body temp.



Today I use imitrex only when absolutely necessary, and stick to the

herbal change of life type blends which keeps me well balanced.  For once

upon a time I lived in fear of MIGRAINE but herbs have definitely changed

all that.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:08:05 +0000

--------

> i also get migraines every month,ususally right at the end of my cycle .I

> am taking a low estrogen birth control pill...one of my clients suggested

> using wild yam cream to increase progesterone...What do y'all think about

> using the cream on the pill?

>



Do you trust your client enough to let them have charge of your

hormonal balance?



Rather than taking more drugs (synthetic "natural" progesterone), I

would try getting off the pill and using another form of birth

control, or have you doctor adjust the dosage.  That might help the

migraines. If your migraines are related to your cycle, that would be

the first place to start.



And perhaps one of the good books on

healthy lifestyles for a women's reproductive system .... Susun Weed,

Rosemary Gladstar, or Amanda McQuade's books are good ones. They all

have the word Menopause in their titles, but they are not just about

menopause.

Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:07:14 -0900

--------

At 03:19 PM 1/15/97 -0600, Valerie Holcomb wrote:

>Just to add, migraines occur, usually, when the blood vessels in the skalp

>constrict, thus allowing less blood to the surface area of the brain, then

>the vessels dilate, thus allowing a surge of blood to come forth.  This is

>the sensation known as an "aura."  Migraines usually occur only on one side

>of the brain or the other.  Some research has found that migraines occur in

>people with lower enkephalins, the brain's own pain relieving compound, thus

>suggesting that opiates and other analgesics maybe more than a "bandaid."

>Still others suggest that migraines occur due to lowered localized

>metabolism within the brain that initially decreases the blood flow to the

>brain.  This would appear to suggest that, possibly, psychostimulants, such

>as Ritalin, would decrease the likelyhood of subsequent migraines, just a

>thought.  I do not know of any herbal psychostimulants other than caffiene.

>In fact a drug prescribed by doctors for both migraines and cluser headaches

>contains Ergotamine and caffeine.  Maybe some suggestions?

>

One other comment.  Some sufferers will get a reflex headache from

analgesics.  My daughter did.  Aspirin, Tylenol and especially codiene would

give her a screaming headache with nausea.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: m kent <mkent@TEXOMA.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:01:37 -0600

--------

which herbs work for you?



>herbal change of life type blends which keeps me well balanced.  For once

>upon a time I lived in fear of MIGRAINE but herbs have definitely changed

>all that.

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:51:03 EST

--------

as far as Migraine only?



For migraine I  like the  Dong Quai especially in a blend first,  and

valerian.



My husband and I use many herbs each day including lots of Pau D'arco and

garlic.  I am diabetic and my husband suffers from candidas so these are

the main herbs at our house.  I also take Evening Primrose Oil and

echinacea daily.



Lynette





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Patricia Brown <Pbrown1225@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:59:10 -0500

--------

I have been on this list for several weeks and have enjoyed lurking.  I felt

the need to speak up at this time because the issue of migraines has come up

and this is a subject I can relate to. A blow to the head/concussion is what

originated my migraines in l985.  They have only gotten progressively worse

and I've tried/taken everything known to the medical profession with very

little luck.  Again, the issue of migraine headaches is the precise reason I

joined this list--a last ditch attempt to delve into a more natural way of

addressing this god awful problem...and perhaps the best way.  And Paul, even

though I joined after your "disappearance" I welcome you back!!



>

>  Then he leaves out a few. For one thing, migraine can be caused by a blow

to

>  the head. Or by reading too many of my posts....

>

>  Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Migraines 101

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:57:09 GMT

--------

> I have been on this list for several weeks and have enjoyed lurking.  I felt

> the need to speak up at this time because the issue of migraines has come

up

> and this is a subject I can relate to. A blow to the head/concussion is

what

> originated my migraines in l985.  They have only gotten progressively worse

> and I've tried/taken everything known to the medical profession with very

> little luck.



Try taking some doses of Arnica montana 1M (a homeopathic medicine). If you

can't get 1M, take any potency you can find, as 'high' as possible (30 or

above is best). Space the doses out a week apart. If you feel anything

dramatic, STOP taking it and wait.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Cold Ese

From: Randy Froeba <htcw@GNA.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:37:57 -0600

--------

Hi Group,



Has anyone heard of the product "Cold Ese" and know what is in it?

Do not know if it is herbal or not, but was featured on one of the

morning news shows.



Thanks,

Randy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cold Ese

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:58:38 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-15 10:42:06 EST, you write:



<<

 Has anyone heard of the product "Cold Ese" and know what is in it?

 Do not know if it is herbal or not, but was featured on one of the

 morning news shows.

  >>

No, it is not herbal.......

The active ingredients are zinc and vitamin C----- (plus flavoring, fructose

etc.).  There are several different brand names available, probably with

different concentrations of Zn and vit. C.  It is supposed to be helpful in

relieving cold symptoms.



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cold Ese

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:01:08 -0800

--------

At 11:58 AM 1/15/97 -0500, you wrote:



>The active ingredients are zinc and vitamin C----- (plus flavoring, fructose

>etc.).  There are several different brand names available, probably with

>different concentrations of Zn and vit. C.  It is supposed to be helpful in

>relieving cold symptoms.

>

>Pat



not all zinc lozenges are the same. they use different carriers i.e.

picolinate, gluconate

and if there's sorbitol or mannitol in the preparation to mask the taste

then the effect will

be nill because the zinc is bound to these chemicals and not utilized.



richard



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Cold Ese

From: Colleen Evans <Colleen.Evans@MAIL.WDN.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:10:31 +0200

--------

Yes, I have used Cold-Eeze.  I found it to work very well, but you really

need to take it with about 48 hours after you start feeling cold symptoms.

My mother and a friend of mine also had success with it.



It runs about $6.00 for a package of 18 lozenges.  It took me over a month

to find a drug store that had it instock.  It's so popular that they

couldn't keep it stocked.  You might need to call around to your local

pharmacies and see who has it.



The address on the package is:  The Quigley Corporation, P.O. Box 1349,

Doylestown, PA  18901



If you can't find it locally, you might want to write to them.  It's not

cheap, but it works and I think it's worth it to cut the duration of your

miserable cold in half.



Hope this helps!

Colleen









At 10:45 AM 1/15/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi Group,

>

>Has anyone heard of the product "Cold Ese" and know what is in it?

>Do not know if it is herbal or not, but was featured on one of the

>morning news shows.

>

>Thanks,

>Randy

>

>







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: opinions wanted

From: Jenny Kennedy <jenny@BIT.PDOS.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:58:44 -0800

--------

Anita wrote:

The current legislation to supposedly make medicinal us of marijuana legal may

be nothing more than a first step for the pot-heads to make their habit legal.

I understand that one of the issues voted on included heroin and LSD for

"medicinal use".



I don't know about anywhere else but in California the legislation was to make

pot available medicinally, mainly to AIDS patients.  IMHO, I feel that if

marijuana makes AIDS patients, and others who are in great pain, lives easier

then they should be able to obtain their "medicine" safely instead of dealing

with street dealers or the possiblity of adulterated marijuana.  As of today,

a new cannibus buyers club opened up in San Francisco to provide medicinal

marijuana to those who use it.



On the issue of herion and LSD, not in California.  Those two substances were

not included in the legislation, Thank god.  I don't think that they have ever

been found to have medicinal purposes anyway.



My conclusion?  We should get high on life and not mind-altering substances.



BTW I think that the US government gives away drugs to people.  Some people can

legally obtain marijuana, heroin, and opiates from the government.  Also

methadone is given to drug addicts by the US.  (I really don't know too much

about methadone, so if I'm wrong please enlighten me. :))



Anyway, the above are my opinions.



Jen





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: opinions wanted

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:10:19 -0600

--------

At 08:58 AM 1/15/97 -0800, you wrote:

>Anita wrote:

>The current legislation to supposedly make medicinal us of marijuana legal may

>be nothing more than a first step for the pot-heads to make their habit legal.

>I understand that one of the issues voted on included heroin and LSD for

>"medicinal use".



>BTW I think that the US government gives away drugs to people.  Some people can

>legally obtain marijuana, heroin, and opiates from the government.  Also

>methadone is given to drug addicts by the US.  (I really don't know too much

>about methadone, so if I'm wrong please enlighten me. :))

>

>Anyway, the above are my opinions.

>

>Jen

>

>>

 Jen:

Methadone ( a synthetic narcotic analgesic) IS used to detoxify heroin

addicts and gives temporary relief to withdrawl symptoms.  It keeps them

from getting "sick" while it has no euphoria that addicts receive from

heroin.  However, methadone is somewhat addictive as well.  It is also used

as a major pain reliever.



As for heroin, it is a derivative of the opium poppy (Papaver somniferum),

as are morphine and codiene (all opioids).  Although heroin was illegalized

in the U.S., morphine is used today in patients with extreme pain and in

terminal cases such as cancer.  Demerol, a synthetic morphine, is used for

many types of pain including childbirth.  Codeine is used for pain in such

drugs as Tylenol 3, and in cough medicine (some states allow the sale of

codeine contained cough medicine over the counter.) In the 1970's,

scientists discovered that people have natural occuring opioids in the brain

(enkephalins).



As far as I know, the US government does give morphine, codeine, methadone,

and their alkaloids, indirectly, to people by the means of medicare,

medicaid, and many government clinics.  Although I am not aware if it is a

widespread problem, it is well documented that law enforcement officers have

given many drugs to addicts in exchange for information.  Hopefully, this is

a primarily a thing of the past. (But, I doubt it.)



-Valerie





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: DEANA <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:57:58 -0600

--------

Well, echinesea and goldenseal root together along with high doses

of Vitamin C (with los of H2O) will help you.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:32:23 +0000

--------

> Well, echinesea and goldenseal root together along with high doses

> of Vitamin C (with los of H2O) will help you.

>

>



Ethical Herb Use Warning



Replace your goldenseal with an appropriate substitute, like Oregon

Grape, or buy farm grown goldenseal.  Let's save the last of the wild

goldenseal for our kids.



Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



"I hope that's Valerian I smell!"





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:30:01 +0100

--------

<excerpt>At 10:16 15/01/97 -0800, you wrote:  



</excerpt><<<<<<<<





>>>>



<excerpt>Hi, I'm new to the list and I look forward to learning a

lot.....I do have a question....What to do about this influenza going

around.  It's been hanging on for weeks now and I'm getting a little

impatient, I've got to get rid of it!  The doctor gave me antibiotics, an

inhaler and codiene cough medicine.  But instead of loading myself up

with these drugs, there has got to be another way!!!





 





Please let me know whats out there to help me......





 





Thanks much





 





Tracie





Ttraub@earthlink.net 





</excerpt>





        Tracie, you are definitely going to receive advice by the armful,

because I am sure with a group like this of knowledgable people

everyone's going to come forward with their favourite herbal cures.

However this gives me the opportunity (read excuse) to rant a little

about my favourite herb/medicine/drug, capsicum anuum, commonly known as

(red) hot chile pepper, cayenne pepper, African red pepper, what the

locals in Andaluca call la guindilla. 



        I'll begin by telling you how I first became aware of its curative

properties (read became addicted). It begins like this: every autumn when

the weather changes here in the Sierra de Aracena just about the whole

pueblo comes down with 'el gripe', the 'flu. Generally it begins with the

kids. They're usually down with it for about a week. As I have a lot of

contact with kids (being a teacher) I also used to come down with a

decent case of the 'flu. It's like the wintertime tax. You get it once

and then you're clear until the next year when the virus has mutated. One

winter, I just couldn't shake it. It would't go away, even after seven

days or so. Another thing was I couldn't get warm. I was in a constant

chill. I was looking at the cayenna powder we kept around for seasoning

our food and decided sort of instinctively to put a nice amount on my

dinner. Then I went to bed under a nice feather blanket. I woke up in the

middle of the night dripping with sweat, had to change my shirt. I woke

up the next morning completely better.



        I then decided that more than anything else the most important factor in

curing an infection of this sort was the elimination of poisons from the

system and that one of the most efficacious ways of doing so was through

the pores. I also treated others with this remedy. If they weren't able

to actually eat 'hot' (picante) food then I devised a method for its

ingestion that worked the same way. Either using the ground up powder or

using a scissors to cut the actual pepper into tiny bits, I would stuff

capsules with cayenne pepper and one could swallow them like pills

without any burning sensation in their mouths and the effect would be the

same; an intense sweat followed by relief and cure. Here's the trip:

ingest some cayenna close to bedtime and then with some nice pyjamas and

some good blankets get into bed and go to sleep. You'll probably feel

warm but *resist* the impulse to uncover yourself. Stay well covered up.

Let me know what happens if you do try this. 



        I know this is going to sound unreal but now that I eat hot pepper daily

I am never ill and haven't missed a day's work in years. It might also

help that I run a few kilometres every day as well. Ok so I take some

Vitamin C too. But the combination seems to work.





        Here's an interesting take. A Dr. Paul Rozin at the University of

Pennsylvania  has discovered that the eating of hot peppers causes a rush

of endomorphins. The 'hotness' experienced by the tongue's nerve endings

leads to 'false' pain signals being sent to the brain. In response to

this the brain produces endomorphins. I can vouch for the rush.



        I'd be interested to here other takes on capsicum as I know there are

people on this list whose knowledge dwarfs mine. In "Back To Eden" Jethro

Kloss devotes fifteen pages just to this one herb. Funny that no one ever

mentions him on this list. Living so isolated for so many years from the

main currents I really have no idea in what esteem he is held in America,

I mean maybe he is thought of as a quack or something; I wouldn't know.



        Meanwhile don't waste your time, money or intestinal flora taking

antibiotics.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:55:49 -0800

--------

At 10:16 AM 1/15/97 -0800, you wrote:

>Hi, I'm new to the list and I look forward to learning a lot.....I do

>have a question....What to do about this influenza going around.  It's

>been hanging on for weeks now and I'm getting a little impatient, I've

>got to get rid of it!  The doctor gave me antibiotics, an inhaler and

>codiene cough medicine.  But instead of loading myself up with these

>drugs, there has got to be another way!!!

>

>Please let me know whats out there to help me......

>

>Thanks much

>

>Tracie

>Ttraub@earthlink.net

>

>Attachment Converted: "d:\eudora\attach\Thisdarn.htm"

>

Try "Echinacea", like tea or capsiles, is the same. Is a good antiviral herb.

Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:31:07 -0500

--------

Tracie,



I suggest you check with your local health food stores or herb shops.  There

are dozens of companies making available many effective herbal formulas for

respiratory problems.  As a rule these formulas contain various combinations

of marshmallow root, ephedra, mullien, passion flower, catnip, horehound,

slippery elm, fenugreek, fennel, bonset, etc. etc.



I have used a number of these combinations over the years and found them much

more effective than prescription drugs.  Also I would not be without some

echinacea, goldenseal, and Pau d'Arco (lapacho) for the heavy weight chronic

respiratory problems.  Rather than "fighting" the diseases, I find it much

more effective to work with the natural processes, using herbs, rest and

nutrition so the body can cure itself.



If you intend to stick around this natural healing world, I suggest you start

with a few books - Natural Healing with Herbs by H. Santillo, and The New

Holistic Herbal by D. Hoffmann are about as good a start as I know of.



Good reading -



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:53:17 GMT

--------

> I'll begin by telling you how I first became aware of its curative

> properties (read became addicted). It begins like this: every autumn

> when the weather changes here in the Sierra de Aracena just about

> the whole pueblo comes down with 'el gripe', the 'flu. Generally

> it begins with the kids. They're usually down with it for about

> a week. As I have a lot of contact with kids (being a teacher) I

> also used to come down with a decent case of the 'flu. It's like

> the wintertime tax. You get it once and then you're clear until

> the next year when the virus has mutated. One winter, I just couldn't

> shake it. It would't go away, even after seven days or so. Another

> thing was I couldn't get warm. I was in a constant chill. I was

> looking at the cayenna powder we kept around for seasoning our food

> and decided sort of instinctively to put a nice amount on my dinner.

> Then I went to bed under a nice feather blanket. I woke up in the

> middle of the night dripping with sweat, had to change my shirt.

> I woke up the next morning completely better.

>         I then decided that more than anything else the most important

> factor in curing an infection of this sort was the elimination of

> poisons from the system and that one of the most efficacious ways

> of doing so was through the pores.



Which is a misconception of the actual process. Cold-type colds develop a

superficial Excess condition, where the Cold blocks the pores. The defense Qi

arrives to fight it off, but cannot, since the pores cannot be opened, like

city gates that lock the invader inside. A struggle results, in which fever

(the defense Qi) and chills (the Cold invader) alternate. The simple

solution, known in many cultures for many, many years is TO INDUCE SWEATING.

This allows the Cold to be expelled, and the condition returns to normal. IT

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POISONS.



This approach will cause beaucoup bad things when applied to Hot-type Colds.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Celeste <ckubasta@PIONEER.STATE.ND.US>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:24:16 -0800

--------

> Which is a misconception of the actual process. Cold-type colds develop a

> superficial Excess condition, where the Cold blocks the pores. The defense Qi

> arrives to fight it off, but cannot, since the pores cannot be opened, like

> city gates that lock the invader inside. A struggle results, in which fever

> (the defense Qi) and chills (the Cold invader) alternate. The simple

> solution, known in many cultures for many, many years is TO INDUCE SWEATING.

> This allows the Cold to be expelled, and the condition returns to normal. IT

> HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POISONS.

>

> This approach will cause beaucoup bad things when applied to Hot-type Colds.

>

> Paul

Paul, as the uninformed newbie who is way behind on reading, please

explain to me how you can tell if you have a cold-type cold or a

hot-type cold.  TIA



Also, a friend's daugher was recently diagnosed with mono and needs to

be able to study for finals.  Any help out there on getting through this

or what works well here. My friend (who pays the college tuition bills)

thanks you for any advice in advance.



BTW - Paul, you are sounding almost sweet in your responses.  A little

too much sugar over the holidays.  <Grin>-----Celeste





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:47:50 GMT

--------

> Paul, as the uninformed newbie who is way behind on reading, please

> explain to me how you can tell if you have a cold-type cold or a

> hot-type cold.  TIA



Let me say that the Chinese made short work of colds theory a good 1,700

years ago. To recapitulate, there are two main classifications of Wind

Attack, Cold and Hot. "Colds" are called Wind Attacks because they: 1) affect

the upper body, where the Wind Gates are (where you breathe, for one thing);

2) they come on suddenly, from the outside, often after untoward

environmental exposure; 3) they present with feeling of blockage, stuffiness,

congestion, which is explained as Wind, where it doesn't belong, displacing

things that should be there, including the ordinary air of the sinuses. Note

that most respiratory _allergies_ fall in this category as well...they

involve feelings of congestion and sneezing (or the attempt to expel the

alien factor).



Cold-type Wind Attacks are the classic winter cold: 1) shoulder and neck

tension; 2) stuffy nose or thin runny; 3) chills more than fever (at least at

first). They are generally treated by expelling Wind and Cold through Warming

Diaphoresis, including sauna, hot shower, blanketing, and herbs like Boneset

or Sage or Pepper, and/or foods like garlic.



Hot-type Wind Attacks are the classic summer cold: 1) pronounced sore throat;

2) stuffy nose or thick mucousy; 3) feelings of heat more than cold. They are

generally treated through Cooling Diaphoresis, including herbs like

peppermint, and Demulcent Cooling herbs with an affinity to the Lungs

(including the entire respiratory passage) like balloonflower. In cases of

severe Heat, Cooling fruit juices like pear or watermelon are very helpful.



In ALL cases, rest and fluids are MANDATORY.



> Also, a friend's daugher was recently diagnosed with mono and needs to

> be able to study for finals.  Any help out there on getting through this

> or what works well here. My friend (who pays the college tuition bills)

> thanks you for any advice in advance.



Mono is an illness that usually affects the stressed-out. The advice is

really restricted to DON'T DRINK COFFEE AND GET MORE REST! Obviously, in this

case the cow is sending postcards from Maui.



> BTW - Paul, you are sounding almost sweet in your responses.  A little

> too much sugar over the holidays.  <Grin>-----Celeste



Distemper shots.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:07:16 -0900

--------

At 10:30 PM 1/15/97 +0100, Eric Feingold wrote:

>At 10:16 15/01/97 -0800, you wrote:

><<<<

>

>>>>>

>Hi, I'm new to the list and I look forward to learning a lot.....I do have

a question....What to do about this influenza going around.  It's been

hanging on for weeks now and I'm getting a little impatient, I've got to get

rid of it!  The doctor gave me antibiotics, an inhaler and codiene cough

medicine.  But instead of loading myself up with these drugs, there has got

to be another way!!!

>

While immune system helpers like echinacea and vitamin C may help alot.

Don't forget those all important Sudorifics and Diaphoretics such as

Boneset, Yarrow, Hyssop, Peppermint and others.  They can help your system

drive out the bugs.  I personally like the four mentioned here and use them

whenever the flu bug knocks and we seldom have secondary infections when

used often, early and prudently.

  Many people continue to go to work.  DON"T go to work.  Stay home and get

well.  Adding Capsicum to various herbal remedies makes them work better.

Just don't overdo it.  Drink gallons of peppermint tea.  It can do the job

all alone if used properly.  Most of the time people don't drink enough of it.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:07:21 -0900

--------

At 02:31 AM 1/16/97 -0500, Chuck Stoy wrote:

>Tracie,

>

>I suggest you check with your local health food stores or herb shops.  There

>are dozens of companies making available many effective herbal formulas for

>respiratory problems.  As a rule these formulas contain various combinations

>of marshmallow root, ephedra, mullien, passion flower, catnip, horehound,

>slippery elm, fenugreek, fennel, bonset, etc. etc.

>

>I have used a number of these combinations over the years and found them much

>more effective than prescription drugs.  Also I would not be without some

>echinacea, goldenseal, and Pau d'Arco (lapacho) for the heavy weight chronic

>respiratory problems.  Rather than "fighting" the diseases, I find it much

>more effective to work with the natural processes, using herbs, rest and

>nutrition so the body can cure itself.

>

>If you intend to stick around this natural healing world, I suggest you start

>with a few books - Natural Healing with Herbs by H. Santillo, and The New

>Holistic Herbal by D. Hoffmann are about as good a start as I know of.

>

>Good reading -

>

>Chuck

>

>

This sounds fine except for the ephedra.  It's lousy for influenza.

Generally it is used for asthma but it's hot drying and can make you

jittery, raising your blood pressure.  I'd just avoid it.  there's lots of

remedies out there.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Bruce Mencer <BMencer@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:50:44 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-15 16:38:44 EST, you write:



<<  Meanwhile don't waste your time, money or intestinal flora taking

 antibiotics. >>



Eric,



 In what ways do you mean "don't waste ..."  regarding antibiotics?  Are you

saying that antibiotics are in general a waste of time and money?  I have a

wife and a daughter who both have mitro valve prolapse and are instructed to

take unusually high doses (6x normal) of amoxicillin prior to a dental

cleaning in case some bacteria finds it's way into their system during the

cleaning.  Is their a better, safer or more sure method?  I would appreciate

your input or the input of others.



Thanks,



Bruce





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Rosamond -Rusty- Taylor <rtaylor@SILVERLINK.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 06:09:43 -0800

--------

>Which is a misconception of the actual process. Cold-type colds develop a

>superficial Excess condition, where the Cold blocks the pores. The defense Qi

>arrives to fight it off, but cannot, since the pores cannot be opened, like

>city gates that lock the invader inside. A struggle results, in which fever

>(the defense Qi) and chills (the Cold invader) alternate. The simple

>solution, known in many cultures for many, many years is TO INDUCE SWEATING.

>This allows the Cold to be expelled, and the condition returns to normal. IT

>HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POISONS.

>

>This approach will cause beaucoup bad things when applied to Hot-type Colds.

>

>Paul



Another way to look at it is that the fever slows the production of the

virus by locking up iron which the virus needs, and helps speed the growth

of the killer-T cells.  The killer-T cells kill off the viruses.  So,

encouraging the fever (as long as it is not a dry fever) is a great way to

speed up the cold-flu cure.



I did this with my husband and oldest son, the only two in the family to

come down with anything this winter.  One day Chuck, our 14 yr. old,

complained of a fever - 101 degrees.  No other symptoms, so I had him

switch to mild foods.  The next day, he had 103.5 degree temp. and a

headache and was lethargic.  I stuck him in as hot a tub of water as he

could stand, and I gave him as much yarrow/elderberry flower tea as

possible (8 cups).  After about an hour in the tub, Chuck's temp. was down

to 102 degrees, and he felt much better.  I stuck him in bed early, and he

slept well that night.  The next morning his temp. was 99 degrees, and he

had a small cough.  I continued the herbal tea every few hours during the

day with 12 drops of Lobelia tincture in every other cup.  I also gave him

500 mgs. vit. C every few hours.  In less than a week, he was completely

over the flu.



There are many possible routines that can be followed.



Rusty



***************************************************************************

                          Bob & Rusty Taylor

                             Poulsbo, WA

                          rtaylor@silverlink.net (home)



***************************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Paul & Kathy Sedler <smeherbs@MAKO.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:30:05 -0800

--------

>Eric,

>

> In what ways do you mean "don't waste ..."  regarding antibiotics?  Are you

>saying that antibiotics are in general a waste of time and money?  I have a

>wife and a daughter who both have mitro valve prolapse and are instructed to

>take unusually high doses (6x normal) of amoxicillin prior to a dental

>cleaning in case some bacteria finds it's way into their system during the

>cleaning.  Is their a better, safer or more sure method?  I would appreciate

>your input or the input of others.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Bruce



Bruce,

I can't take antibiotics - I have very dangerous adverse reactions to any

antibiotics I have taken.  I have been diagnosed with MVP (among other

sundry alphabet soup "diagnoses").  I was never told to take that high of

dose of any antibiotic, and now my dentist tells me that it is controversial

anyway.  I prepare for my visit by resting a bit more than usual,

reevaluating my diet to make sure it is supportive to my body for the

stress, take immune stimulating herbs as well as antimicrobials.  I also

rinse my mouth afterwards with sea salt and sage.  There's a host of other

things I do, but I can assure you that with my very weakened immune system,

I am at risk and have yet to have a problem.  Believe me, that some months I

see my dentist more than my family (or so it seems!).



Perhaps you may want to reevaluate the recent literature out there on the

use of antibiotics as a premed for dental work.  Besides the fact that there

is now a host of little and not-so-little microbes out there who laugh at

antibiotics and keep multiplying anyway.  I am not trying to sound

disrespectful here.  I have found educating myself, and not allowing fear to

run my life, has been healthy for me!!!!



Just my two cents.

Kathy

Kathy McQuade-Sedler



Sedler's Mother Earth Herbs - 5272-A West Gold Ct., Beale AFB, CA  95903

916-788-0138 ***** email SMEHerbs@mako.com

FAX 916-788-0849 (not dedicated line)

(All appropriate disclaimers apply.)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Dina Kerr and Dick Kerr <dikerr@MINDLINK.BC.CA>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:44:38 -0800

--------

>In a message dated 97-01-15 16:38:44 EST, you write:

>

><<  Meanwhile don't waste your time, money or intestinal flora taking

> antibiotics. >>

>

>Eric,

>

> In what ways do you mean "don't waste ..."  regarding antibiotics?  Are you

>saying that antibiotics are in general a waste of time and money?  I have a

>wife and a daughter who both have mitro valve prolapse and are instructed to

>take unusually high doses (6x normal) of amoxicillin prior to a dental

>cleaning in case some bacteria finds it's way into their system during the

>cleaning.  Is their a better, safer or more sure method?  I would appreciate

>your input or the input of others.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Bruce

>

>I have mitral valve prolapse and I don't take antibiotics for cleaning but

I would for extraction.  I just make sure I rinse my mouth with something

like listerine afterwards.  Should be good enough, says my doc.

New to list.  Hi, Paul, whoever you are, you are certainly controversial,

what did you do to rustle all these feathers?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:10:12 -0900

--------

At 10:50 PM 1/16/97 -0500, Bruce Mencer wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-15 16:38:44 EST, you write:

>

><<  Meanwhile don't waste your time, money or intestinal flora taking

> antibiotics. >>

>

>Eric,

>

> In what ways do you mean "don't waste ..."  regarding antibiotics?  Are you

>saying that antibiotics are in general a waste of time and money?  I have a

>wife and a daughter who both have mitro valve prolapse and are instructed to

>take unusually high doses (6x normal) of amoxicillin prior to a dental

>cleaning in case some bacteria finds it's way into their system during the

>cleaning.  Is their a better, safer or more sure method?  I would appreciate

>your input or the input of others.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Bruce

>

>

There are most certainly advantages to antibiotics.  They have been a great

boon to medicine and have greatly increased the survival rate of patients in

many circumstances.  We should in no way look down our noses at antibiotics.

They are wonderful when used prudently.  However, you should be aware that

they destroy intestinal bacteria and are prone to causing allergic

reactions.  I am allergic to two antibiotics from overuse when I was a

child.  There is also a problem with the development of antibiotic resistant

bacteria making some diseases formerly treatable with antibiotics worthless.

That is a frightening thought.

  Certainly they are overprescribed when a few herbs would do nicely without

the problems of antibiotics.  We just need to educate the medical community

some more.  They are getting smarter.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:43:00 -0500

--------

Paul,



Could you please explain the difference between a cold-type cold and a

hot-type cold?



Also, regarding the use of cayenne... could it be that most seasonal

respiratory illnesses (colds, flu, grippe, whatever) are caused by viruses

(not toxins); viruses consist of a nucleic acid core and protein coat;

proteins are denatured at elevated temperatures (fever, thermogenic herbs); a

denatured protein coat prevents the virus from attaching to other cells,

interrupting vial replication and halting the disease. An oversimplification,

perhaps, but from a microbiologist's perspective, it makes sense to me!



Any thoughts?

Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:30:53 -0800

--------

I've witnessed the sweating work in my children when they had fever.





What is beaucoup and Hot-type Colds? How can you tell the difference?  When

do you induce?



Thanks,

Krista



(Other snipped)

>Which is a misconception of the actual process. Cold-type colds develop a

>superficial Excess condition, where the Cold blocks the pores. The defense Qi

>arrives to fight it off, but cannot, since the pores cannot be opened, like

>city gates that lock the invader inside. A struggle results, in which fever

>(the defense Qi) and chills (the Cold invader) alternate. The simple

>solution, known in many cultures for many, many years is TO INDUCE SWEATING.

>This allows the Cold to be expelled, and the condition returns to normal. IT

>HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POISONS.

>

>This approach will cause beaucoup bad things when applied to Hot-type Colds.

>

>Paul

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:31:04 GMT

--------

> Also, regarding the use of cayenne... could it be that most seasonal

> respiratory illnesses (colds, flu, grippe, whatever) are caused by viruses

> (not toxins); viruses consist of a nucleic acid core and protein coat;

> proteins are denatured at elevated temperatures (fever, thermogenic herbs);

a

> denatured protein coat prevents the virus from attaching to other cells,

> interrupting vial replication and halting the disease. An

oversimplification,

> perhaps, but from a microbiologist's perspective, it makes sense to me!

>

> Any thoughts?

> Nancy



An oversimplification, yes. If the body was a machine, maybe thinking along

this line would be effective. But, really, it's not, and the science of

fighting viruses by attacking their chemistry is in its nascence.



I'm an herbalist...I don't seek microbiologist perspectives, personally, but

holistic understandings.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:56:04 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-19 15:59:08 EST, Paul wrote:



>An oversimplification, yes. If the body was a machine, maybe thinking along

>this line would be effective. But, really, it's not, and the science of

>fighting viruses by attacking their chemistry is in its nascence.



>I'm an herbalist...I don't seek microbiologist perspectives, personally, but

>holistic understandings.



Paul-



I would suggest that a "holistic understanding" of _any_ disease process

would have to include careful and educated consideration of the underlying

cause (microbiological or otherwise) in relation to the physical, emotional

and spiritual body. Isn't that the whole point of a holistic approach to

wellness?



Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 14 Jan 1997 to 15 Jan 1997

From: rob <rys@UCLA.EDU>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:46:27 -0800

--------

One thing to be aware of is that there are quite a number of cultivars of

_Tanacetum parthenium_ around, since it it used as an ornamental as well.

The horticultural (i.e. non-medicinal varieties) have very little effect, as

they have been bred for different qualities (e.g. flower shape/size/colour

etc.). So both with commercial tinctures and with homegrown, you want to try

to be sure to get the "medicinal" variety. (Actually this goes for a few

other plants I know of as well, so I guess this could be a nice thing to

keep in the back of one's mind...:). Hope this helps. Oh, BTW, allergies can

often be a trigger for this affliction, so you might want to look in to this

aspect as well (good 'ol diet again...). rob



At 12:00 AM 1/16/97 +0200, you wrote:

>Date:    Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:19:58 -0800

>From:    Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

>Subject: Re: Migraines...

>

>At 06:56 PM 1/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>Does anyone out there know of any possible herbal remedies for a woman who

>>suffers from chronic migraine headaches (more than one per week)?

>The classic herb used for Migraine headaches (prevention and treatment) is

>Feverfew (Tanacetum parthenium)....a member of the sunflower family, grows

>prolifically throughout Europe and the US.  The name is a corruption of the

>word febrifuge, used go signify its tonic and fever-dispelling properties.

>In The Family Herbal, John Hill noted...."In the worst headache, this herb

>exceeds whatever else is known."  Recent interest in feverfew as a treatment

>for migraine headaches has increased tremendously.  A 1983 survey in Great

>Britain found that 70 percent of 270 migraine sufferers who had used

>feverfew daily for prolonged periods claimed that the herb had decreased the

>frequency and/or intensity of their attacks.

>

>Six-month migraine studies (Johnson ES, et al.:Efficacy of feverfew as

>prophylactic treatment of migraine. Br Med J 291, 569-573, 1985) and (Murphy

>JJ, Heptinstall S, and Mitchel JRA: Randomized double blind placebo

>controlled trial of feverfew in migraine prevention. Lancet ii, 189-192,

>1988) made no reports of toxic reactions in patients taking feverfew.

>Chewing the leaves, however, may result in apthous ulcerations and some

>sensitive persons will develop an exudative dermatitis from external contact

>(Awang DVC: Feverfew. Can Pharm j 122, 266-270, 1989.)

>

>Many have also reported successful results using the essential oil of

>Lavender (Lavendula officinalis.)

>

>Be well,

>Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

>Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

>                                  Herbal Indulgence

>                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Fruit Juice

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:21:30 GMT

--------

Illinois [LA Times, 1/14/97, pg. A11]



Juice May Hurt Kids' Growth, Study Says



Drinking more than 12 ounces of fruit juice a day may make preschoolers fat

or stunt their growth, a study published by the American Academy of

Pediatrics in Chicago suggested. No single juice was implicated in the study

of 168 healthy youngsters, but those who drank more than 12 ounces daily

tended to be shorter or fatter than other preschoolers. The findings,

published in the January issue of the journal Pediatrics, suggested that the

youngsters may have been getting too much sugar or missing out on more

nutritious foods.

--



Ahem.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fruit Juice

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:09:06 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-16 14:30:57 EST, you write:



>Juice May Hurt Kids' Growth, Study Says

>

>Drinking more than 12 ounces of fruit juice a day may make preschoolers fat

>or stunt their growth, a study published by the American Academy of

>Pediatrics in Chicago suggested. No single juice was implicated in the study

>of 168 healthy youngsters, but those who drank more than 12 ounces daily

>tended to be shorter or fatter than other preschoolers. The findings,

>published in the January issue of the journal Pediatrics, suggested that the

>youngsters may have been getting too much sugar or missing out on more

>nutritious foods.

>--

>

>Ahem.

>

>Paul





Although not necessary, beging so publicly validated (especially by allopaths

<;o) is a wonderful feeling, and you are indeed entitled to your "Ahem."



Welcome back, Paul.



Kathy



P.S. I have ruled out excessive reading of your posts as a cause for my

migraines (missed that humor) in that I have more than the usual amount

during your absence!  <;o)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fruit Juice

From: Rosamond -Rusty- Taylor <rtaylor@SILVERLINK.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:57:58 -0800

--------

>Illinois [LA Times, 1/14/97, pg. A11]

>

>Juice May Hurt Kids' Growth, Study Says

>

>Drinking more than 12 ounces of fruit juice a day may make preschoolers fat

>or stunt their growth, a study published by the American Academy of

>Pediatrics in Chicago suggested. No single juice was implicated in the study

>of 168 healthy youngsters, but those who drank more than 12 ounces daily

>tended to be shorter or fatter than other preschoolers. The findings,

>published in the January issue of the journal Pediatrics, suggested that the

>youngsters may have been getting too much sugar or missing out on more

>nutritious foods.

>--

>

>Ahem.

>

>Paul





Since you site the source as the LA Times, I assume that you probably

haven't read the actual study itself?  If the study was partly a survey of

what the 168 *healthy* (according to whom?) youngsters were eating, then

probably we are talking about commercially produced frozen juices, or

possibly the aseptic packaged *juices* that may or may not contain 10% or

more of real juice.  But, in any event, we are most likely talking about

cooked juices, and most of those have added sugar.



I agree that such juices are little better than colored sugar water, even

if the sugar is all or mostly fructose.  (Has anyone done a similar study

on Kool Aid?)  When I make up frozen juice (and I only buy juice with no

added sugar), I add 5 cans of water, not three.  The more diluted juice is

much more to my liking, but it is a small part of what my boys drink.  They

mostly drink water.  Most of that is purified or distilled.



However, freshly made fruit/vegetable juices are a healthful food, and can

be very theraputic, as one of Paul's postings indicated (advising

watermelon and some other juice for something that I don't remember).

Freshly prepared juices, used with prudence and some knowledge, can help

with many problems.  One important thing about fresh juices - they should

be swished in the mouth to allow mixture with the saliva, to help in

digestion.  And juices should never be used as a replacement for water.



Rusty  =^)



***************************************************************************

                          Bob & Rusty Taylor

                             Poulsbo, WA

                          rtaylor@silverlink.net (home)



***************************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fruit Juice

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:57:37 GMT

--------

> >Illinois [LA Times, 1/14/97, pg. A11]

> >

> >Juice May Hurt Kids' Growth, Study Says



[snip]



> Since you site the source as the LA Times, I assume that you probably

> haven't read the actual study itself?  If the study was partly a survey of

> what the 168 *healthy* (according to whom?) youngsters were eating, then

> probably we are talking about commercially produced frozen juices, or

> possibly the aseptic packaged *juices* that may or may not contain 10% or

> more of real juice.  But, in any event, we are most likely talking about

> cooked juices, and most of those have added sugar.



There is no reason to presume that. Fruit juice is harmful to health when

consumed as a daily beverage, ESPECIALLY for children, who are in their

formative years.



> However, freshly made fruit/vegetable juices are a healthful food,



They are not. Such faddism doesn't produce good health, as is obvious, since

juicers are among the people who are constantly complaining of their ill

health, thus their need for this 'cure.' The Digestion is served best by

freshly cooked, warm, nourishing foods.



>and can

> be very theraputic, as one of Paul's postings indicated (advising

> watermelon and some other juice for something that I don't remember).



Those were THERAPIES, not dietary recommendations.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fruit Juice

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:15:42 GMT

--------

> And I can't disagree with you more.  To consume processed juice is little

> better than sugar water, but fresh juices from organically grown produce is

> very healthful for children or adults.



Flat out nonsense in the context of the study especially. The nutritional

differences that canned juice has with fresh juice doesn't affect the sugar

content, which is the proposed experimental factor. 'Very' healthful is not

the way to describe fruit...that's like saying that chocolate cake is very

healthful. It is, on your birthday.



>There may be occasional exceptions,

> but my own boys have benefited greatly from fresh juices.  They should be

> consumed on an empty stomach and should not be used to replace water, which

> should be the main drink of anyone.



I wonder how you are qualified to determine this 'great benefit'? Are you a

healer, trained to observe health balance?



> >>The Digestion is served best by

> >freshly cooked, warm, nourishing foods.

>

> Obvious?  Really?  To whom?  I guess we know different "juicers".



As a previous health food store manager, I have met hundreds of juicers. Most

had crappy health, where they were fussing with themselves endlessly.



> >>and can

> >> be very theraputic, as one of Paul's postings indicated (advising

> >> watermelon and some other juice for something that I don't remember).

> >

> >Those were THERAPIES, not dietary recommendations.

>

> I'm not going to debate the nutritional value of fresh juice, as we

> obviously see the subject differently.



If you don't deal with the sugar, you aren't seeing the issue at all.



>I do not agree with all the claims

> for a macrobiotic diet.  I do know that some illnesses benefit greatly from

> a macrobiotic diet, but I don't think that it is the best diet for all

> people, including growing children.  We will have to agree to disagree

> because I don't believe that the most nourishing foods are cooked.

>

> Rusty



Then you don't understand human nutrition and illness. Find ONE traditional

culture on this planet that believed what you believe.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fruit Juice

From: Rosamond -Rusty- Taylor <rtaylor@SILVERLINK.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:23:20 -0800

--------

>> Since you site the source as the LA Times, I assume that you probably

>> haven't read the actual study itself?  If the study was partly a survey of

>> what the 168 *healthy* (according to whom?) youngsters were eating, then

>> probably we are talking about commercially produced frozen juices, or

>> possibly the aseptic packaged *juices* that may or may not contain 10% or

>> more of real juice.  But, in any event, we are most likely talking about

>> cooked juices, and most of those have added sugar.

>

>There is no reason to presume that. Fruit juice is harmful to health when

>consumed as a daily beverage, ESPECIALLY for children, who are in their

>formative years.



And I can't disagree with you more.  To consume processed juice is little

better than sugar water, but fresh juices from organically grown produce is

very healthful for children or adults.  There may be occasional exceptions,

but my own boys have benefited greatly from fresh juices.  They should be

consumed on an empty stomach and should not be used to replace water, which

should be the main drink of anyone.



>> However, freshly made fruit/vegetable juices are a healthful food,

>

>They are not. Such faddism doesn't produce good health, as is obvious, since

>juicers are among the people who are constantly complaining of their ill

>health, thus their need for this 'cure.' The Digestion is served best by

>freshly cooked, warm, nourishing foods.



Obvious?  Really?  To whom?  I guess we know different "juicers".



>>and can

>> be very theraputic, as one of Paul's postings indicated (advising

>> watermelon and some other juice for something that I don't remember).

>

>Those were THERAPIES, not dietary recommendations.

>

>Paul



I'm not going to debate the nutritional value of fresh juice, as we

obviously see the subject differently.  I do not agree with all the claims

for a macrobiotic diet.  I do know that some illnesses benefit greatly from

a macrobiotic diet, but I don't think that it is the best diet for all

people, including growing children.  We will have to agree to disagree

because I don't believe that the most nourishing foods are cooked.



Rusty



***************************************************************************

                          Bob & Rusty Taylor

                             Poulsbo, WA

                          rtaylor@silverlink.net (home)



***************************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!

From: Vicki Latta <luna@BBS.TSF.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:49:52 -0500

--------

My favorite herb for fighting influenza is boneset.... Latin name:

Eupatorium perfoliatum.  It's not an herb that seems to be found on the

health food store shelves, although I couldn't say why.  It's far from

palatable... but no worse than the very rare goldenseal.



It's the best thing I've found for breaking up a fever, and banishing

those terrible shivery chills that come with a bad case of the flu.

Recall reading somewhere that some anti-viral properties had been found

in extracts of boneset, but cannot quote references, perhaps some one

else can help me out here.  Also recall reading that boneset tea taken

hot can act as an emetic... but in years of using it.. have never

encountered this.  Some laxative effect seems to be normal IME.



The tea being strongly bitter, I prefer to put the half teaspoon to

teaspoon dose of tincture in a small amount of mint tea, and gulp it

quickly, then follow with the rest of the tea in small sips.  Have never

had to take more than three doses at eight to ten hour intervals to feel

significantly better.  Of course, bed rest is a MUST if your body is to

summon all its strength to fight off a flu bug... no knocking back the

medicine on your way to work and expecting to be cured by the time you

punch in! :)



Boneset is identified by its opposite leaves that connect around the

stem, tufts of white to offwhite flowers.  It is a "cousin" of gravel

root, or Joe-Pye weed(Eupatorium purpureum,) which is another prolific

herb in these parts (north of the Adirondacks, in NY state.)  Both of

these plants seem to prefer to grow in very moist soil.



The aerial parts are used... my favorite time for picking being just as

the flowers are opening.  If you just pinch off the top foot or so of

the plant early enough in the season, the plant will grow another

flowering top, and you have your medicine, and the plant goes on to set

its seed for the next generation.  A win/win situation.  The tops of two

or three plants should provide more than enough tincture for a family of

three to five for at least one year.



Be well, be happy, Blessed Be!



luna@bbs.tsf.com.... back after a break from the list

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Suggestions for complementary care

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:12:30 EST

--------

A close friend just had an x-ray for bronchial pneumonia (positive)

discovered a large thoracic lump.  She needs to recover from the

pneumonia before they can biopsy it.  In the meantime, she would like

suggestions for complementary care.



50, good diet, insufficient exercise, obese, has had serious stress

within the last few years, some history of heart palpitations (possibly

menopause related?).



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: a little girl in the hospital can't urinate...

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:47:26 GMT

--------

Anansi wrote:



> a little girl in the hospital can't urinate, can anyone suggest any teas

that

> would help?

>

> anansi



Is that really enough information on which to base any reliable advice? WHY

is she in the hospital, for starters.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: a little girl in the hospital can't urinate...

From: Anansi <Anansi@NYO.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:55:51 -0500

--------

a little girl in the hospital can't urinate, can anyone suggest any teas that

would help?



anansi





--





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: a little girl in the hospital can't urinate...

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:08:05 +0000

--------

> From:          Anansi <Anansi@NYO.COM>



> a little girl in the hospital can't urinate, can anyone suggest any teas that

> would help?

>

 anansi



If this girl is in the hospital under some sort of treatment, the

doctor shouuld be aware of that and take it into consideration. There

is no way anyone could answer that question over the internet, and it

would be dangerous to try and treat that problem behind the doctors

back.

Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: a little girl in the hospital can't urinate...

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:43:01 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-16 17:59:49 EST, Anansi@NYO.COM (Anansi) wrote:



>a little girl in the hospital can't urinate, can anyone suggest any teas

that

>would help?



It would seem to be impossible to speculate on treatment (herbal or

otherwise) without some basic information; is the problem due to a structural

defect, renal dysfunction, inflammation or infection, etc??? Is there any

clinical information available?



My best wishes to the little girl -

Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: cold

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:11:33 GMT

--------

>Is the 'flu *always* a cold-type cold?



A 'flu' is an abstraction that Chinese healing doesn't recognize. Are many

Wind Cold Attacks 'flus'? I suppose so. But 'flus' usually have additional

factors, like Dampness and/or Toxin. Dampness usually presents with heavy

mucous, recalcitrant illnesses, nausea, or loose stools. Toxin refers to a

feeling of being very ill, uncomfortable, with a sense of the illness being

especially malign.



> By the way, nice to see your name back on the posts and your words flying

> through the aether.



Thanks. I used to play the aether....



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: cold

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:30:48 +0100

--------

On <bigger>Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:53:17 GMT Paul Iannone

<<p_iannone@LAMG.COM>



wrote:



</bigger>



        First of all Paul this is completely unfair. You are somewhere on the

west coast of the United States and are living on GMT which makes you

eight hours ahead of all the rest of us. How  do you expect us to keep up

when you've already been where we're going?? Is there a fix for this?





meanwhile you wrote:





>Which is a misconception of the actual process. Cold-type colds >develop

a superficial Excess condition, where the Cold blocks the >pores. The

defense Qi arrives to fight it off, but cannot, since >the pores cannot

be opened, like city gates that lock the invader >inside. A struggle

results, in which fever (the defense Qi) and >chills (the Cold invader)

alternate. The simple solution, known >in many cultures for many, many

years is TO INDUCE SWEATING. This >allows the Cold to be expelled, and

the condition returns to >normal. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POISONS.





>This approach will cause beaucoup bad things when applied to Hot->type

Colds.





>Paul





Paul,



        Could I impose and ask if you'd be willing to give me some more

information about this? I plead complete ignorance. For example would it

be possible for *me* to recognize the difference between a hot-type cold

and a cold-type cold or does this need more knowledege and/or training

which I don't possess? Is the 'flu *always* a cold-type cold?





By the way, nice to see your name back on the posts and your words flying

through the aether.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:11:59 GMT

--------

> Can anyone help? My partner Libby desperately needs to get her expressed

> breast milk supply up for our baby daughter who is being fed through a

> gastrostomy tube. If she cannot keep ahead of demand, Hannah's feed will

> have to be supplemented with fortifiers.

>

> Libby is currently chewing fennel seeds, and is about to try dill and

> parsley. Anything else out there that might help?

>

>

> Allan



Classic galactogogues include dandelion root, fenugreek and nettles. They are

all very good. This is also a case where Chaste berries and other 'Blood/Yin

Boosting' herbs could be useful.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Geoff & Mary Orr <gorr@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:44:24 -0500

--------

At 01:25 PM 1/17/97 -0000, you wrote:

>Can anyone help? My partner Libby desperately needs to get her expressed

>breast milk supply up for our baby daughter who is being fed through a

>gastrostomy tube. If she cannot keep ahead of demand, Hannah's feed will

>have to be supplemented with fortifiers.





Alan:

First off, help Libby relax.  Milk flow is supressed under stress.  This

must be a difficult time you both are going through.  Next, I would rent an

electric pump if you haven't already done so.  There are pumps on the market

that will work both sides at the same time, reducing pumping time.  Manual

milk expression can be physically tiring.



With a doctor's prescription, many insurance companies will cover the

expense of pump rental.



Mary Orr





Geoff and Mary Orr

gorr@ix.netcom.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Breast milk

From: Allan Moult <summerhill@TASSIE.NET.AU>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:25:51 -0000

--------

Can anyone help? My partner Libby desperately needs to get her expressed

breast milk supply up for our baby daughter who is being fed through a

gastrostomy tube. If she cannot keep ahead of demand, Hannah's feed will

have to be supplemented with fortifiers.



Libby is currently chewing fennel seeds, and is about to try dill and

parsley. Anything else out there that might help?





Allan





ps: Is the correct nomenclature Paulus vulgaris or Paulus nobilis?

Welcome back either way!







--------------------------------------------------------------

        Allan Moult & Libby Legge    @   Hannah's Herbs



Snail mail: Summerhill Farm, Nubeena 7184, Tasmania, Australia

          Tel: 61+3 6250 2652   Fax: 61+3 6250 2386

               email: summerhill@tassie.net.au

--------------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Alison Birks <ali@NTPLX.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:40:59 +0100

--------

For breast milk production:



I would suggest not using parsley -- it can dry up milk for some women.

For me, whole, unhulled cooked barley is the best remedy I know of to

increase milk.  Eat a couple of servings of it each day, along with teas

containing blessed thistle, nettle, and or fenugreek.  She should be

certain to drink enough fluids, but not too much -- just drink to

thirst.  I would also suggest any mild, relaxing nervine herbs to help

her to relax and focus on the baby.  Too much stress can inhibit milk

production.  Chamomile and lemon balm are particularly good.  Extra B

vitamins and a good  Calcium/Magnesium source (supplement if not getting

it in food) is important for milk production.  Mochi and Amasake are two

traditional foods made from rice that also help to give the extra

calories, B-vitamins and energy needed to make milk.  Good luck to you!





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:56:40 EST

--------

>> Can anyone help? My partner Libby desperately needs to get her

>expressed

>> breast milk supply up for our baby daughter who is being fed through

>a

>> gastrostomy tube. If she cannot keep ahead of demand, Hannah's feed

>will

>> have to be supplemented with fortifiers.

>>

>> Libby is currently chewing fennel seeds, and is about to try dill

>and

>> parsley.



Parsley will definitely DECREASE milk supply. Skip this and sage too.





>> Anything else out there that might help?





Is there any way to get a real live baby to borrow a couple times a day?

This would be most helpful in stimulating the let-down.  Tell Libby to

remember that there is probably nothing wrong with her body.  It just

will respond to the supply/demand stimulation it is getting. It is

imperative that she pumps -nurses-expresses every 2 -3 hours -even at

night. (If you don't already have an electric pump, rent one at your

local drug store. They are way more efficient than hand varieties)  This

is what she would be doing if Hannah was home, nursing around the clock.

Give her *plenty* of emotional support.  Intimate time can help with milk

production as well. Massage and nipple stimulation will elevate milk

production as will a climax.

>>

>>

>> Allan

>

>Classic galactogogues include dandelion root, fenugreek and nettles.

>They are

>all very good.



>This is also a case where Chaste berries and other

>'Blood/Yin

>Boosting' herbs could be useful.

>

>Paul

>



Also consider Borage-very helpful!



Kim in VA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:37:30 EST

--------

Allan-



Lots and lots of water.  Enough liquid to swim in.  The nurses recomended

malta when I was trying to establish breastfeeding- it is a nonalcoholic

malt beverage, quite sweet, found in Hispanic specialty sections.  It

seemed to work well. The fennel, et al is more effective drunk as a tea

or, better yet, an infusion.  Put an ounce in a quart jar before bed,

pour in boiling water and drink in the morning.  I liked fenugreek seed

tea myself.



If she is nursing the baby at all, have her use one side only and pump

the other side.  Or express the milk at first, then nurse the baby.  It

is easier to manufacture more milk for a live baby than a breast pump.

(I found that when I babysat a nursling, I would make enough for two.)

Different pumps are more effective than others, so some experimentation

might help.  Also, soaking the breast in warm water first may help.



Emotions help too, and unfortunately stress can dry her up.   If she can

hold or sit near the baby while she expresses milk, or at least look at

a picture, it helps.  Making breast milk is about love, and while

hospital rooms are difficult places, she will have an easier time if she

floods herself with emotions of love for the baby before she expresses

the milk.  Try giving her a massage or otherwise helping her relax just

before.



(This is probably useless advice, but the easiest time I had expressing

milk was one day when I was on an airplane and the pressure helped the

milk flow.  I was finally able to get a full day ahead.)



I don't know what is wrong with the baby, but some hospitals can be

persuaded to allow even incubator babies to nurse directly, or to

"kangaroo" next to the mother's skin in a position that will allow

nursing, under wraps.  It is worth asking and maybe pushing.  You

probably know that the breastmilk of a premature infant (and perhaps an

infant under stress) is different than regular breastmilk, and more

suited to that baby's needs.



Last but not least, phone your local La Leche League and speak to a

breastfeeding counselor: many have specialized knowledge about nursing in

sistuations like your.  Breastfeeding is a skill and most of us don't get

taught until we are on the front lines.



Good luck.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:25:51 -0000 Allan Moult <summerhill@TASSIE.NET.AU>

writes:

>Can anyone help? My partner Libby desperately needs to get her

>expressed

>breast milk supply up for our baby daughter who is being fed through a

>gastrostomy tube. If she cannot keep ahead of demand, Hannah's feed

>will

>have to be supplemented with fortifiers.

>

>Libby is currently chewing fennel seeds, and is about to try dill and

>parsley. Anything else out there that might help?

>

>

>Allan

>

>

>ps: Is the correct nomenclature Paulus vulgaris or Paulus nobilis?

>Welcome back either way!

>

>

>

>--------------------------------------------------------------

>        Allan Moult & Libby Legge    @   Hannah's Herbs

>

>Snail mail: Summerhill Farm, Nubeena 7184, Tasmania, Australia

>          Tel: 61+3 6250 2652   Fax: 61+3 6250 2386

>               email: summerhill@tassie.net.au

>--------------------------------------------------------------

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: jennifer Perella <MoreFerFer@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:34:23 -0500

--------

I was told by my physician to use milk thistle and it worked like a charm.

jennifer





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:42:42 -0600

--------

 Please, someone explain something to me.  My son was breastfed as a baby;

but, I never even thought about breastfeeding someone else's child.  Do I

understand this correctly from some of the email generated lately?  Is this

an okay practice?  For some reason, I feel uncomfortable about the idea.



-Valerie



  It

>is easier to manufacture more milk for a live baby than a breast pump.

>(I found that when I babysat a nursling, I would make enough for two.)

>

>Emotions help too, and unfortunately stress can dry her up.   If she can

>hold or sit near the baby while she expresses milk, or at least look at

>a picture, it helps.  Making breast milk is about love, and while

>hospital rooms are difficult places, she will have an easier time if she

>floods herself with emotions of love for the baby before she expresses

>the milk.  Try giving her a massage or otherwise helping her relax just

>before.

>



>I don't know what is wrong with the baby, but some hospitals can be

>persuaded to allow even incubator babies to nurse directly, or to

>"kangaroo" next to the mother's skin in a position that will allow

>nursing, under wraps.  It is worth asking and maybe pushing.  You

>probably know that the breastmilk of a premature infant (and perhaps an

>infant under stress) is different than regular breastmilk, and more

>suited to that baby's needs.

>

>Last but not least, phone your local La Leche League and speak to a

>breastfeeding counselor: many have specialized knowledge about nursing in

>sistuations like your.  Breastfeeding is a skill and most of us don't get

>taught until we are on the front lines.

>

>Good luck.

>

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com

>

>

>On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:25:51 -0000 Allan Moult <summerhill@TASSIE.NET.AU>

>writes:

>>Can anyone help? My partner Libby desperately needs to get her

>>expressed

>>breast milk supply up for our baby daughter who is being fed through a

>>gastrostomy tube. If she cannot keep ahead of demand, Hannah's feed

>>will

>>have to be supplemented with fortifiers.

>>

>>Libby is currently chewing fennel seeds, and is about to try dill and

>>parsley. Anything else out there that might help?

>>

>>

>>Allan

>>

>>

>>ps: Is the correct nomenclature Paulus vulgaris or Paulus nobilis?

>>Welcome back either way!

>>

>>

>>

>>--------------------------------------------------------------

>>        Allan Moult & Libby Legge    @   Hannah's Herbs

>>

>>Snail mail: Summerhill Farm, Nubeena 7184, Tasmania, Australia

>>          Tel: 61+3 6250 2652   Fax: 61+3 6250 2386

>>               email: summerhill@tassie.net.au

>>--------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:10:17 -0900

--------

At 02:42 PM 1/17/97 -0600, Valerie Holcomb wrote:

> Please, someone explain something to me.  My son was breastfed as a baby;

>but, I never even thought about breastfeeding someone else's child.  Do I

>understand this correctly from some of the email generated lately?  Is this

>an okay practice?  For some reason, I feel uncomfortable about the idea.

>

>

It is absolutely OK!  I have done this myself.  In former days it was common

for aristocratic women to hire a "wetnurse" for their babies so they could

get their figures back sooner.  The women who commonly did this for a living

would often suckle a piglet to keep their milk up between jobs. (Maybe you

could adopt a pig? tee hee).  I had a generous milk supply and would help my

sister and friends when they had to be away from thier babies for long

periods of time.  We all swapped.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Michael Bailes <frgntgar@FASTLINK.COM.AU>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:44:44 +1100

--------

.Mother's Milk !

Too Much

Sage tea  is a "drying"' herb. Try a fresh sprig in a cup of hot water and

sweetened to taste. Take this tea as often as necessary.

Too Little

Try a tea made by soaking a few .i.fenugreek ;seeds in a cup of hot water.

Fenugreek seeds can be sprouted and eaten in a salad.

Fennel, aniseed, and raspberries (actually .i.raspberry leaf; but try

raspberries anyway) are said to help, so too is borage. Add a little

chopped borage to a salad and eat half an hour before feeding the baby.

.i.Blessed Thistle; (.i.Cnicus benedictus;) is a rampant outback weed. Make

a strong tea of the plant and drink half an hour before feeding. Often the

alcoholic tincture of the plant can be found in health food shops or your

local herbalist might have some on his shelves. It is one of the nicer

tasting herbal medicines.

.i.Beer; or stout is the remedy preferred by the sisters at our local

hospital! Try testing out all the different brands and let me know which

works best?



For excellent advice  on feeding babies contact your local Nursing Mothers'

Association.





Michael Bailes

The Fragrant Garden

Portsmouth Road

Erina. N.S.W. 2250

Australia.

Int fax 61 43 651979 Phone 043 677322

Next Chilli festival  8/9  March 1997

frgntgar@worldgrp.fastlink.com.au (Michael Bailes)

"I've decided to skip 'holistic.'  I don't know what it means, and I don't

want to know.

That may seem extreme, but I followed the same strategy toward 'Gestalt'

and 'The Twist,' and lived to tell the tale."

Calvin Trillin





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: "Bernadette M.Skoczylas" <Bskoczy@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:19:45 -0500

--------

what else is nettle good for?   also, alfalfa leaves....chinese fennel

seed...north american parsley herb..thanks, bskoczy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:53:07 -0600

--------

At 10:44 PM 1/19/97 +1100, you wrote:

>.Mother's Milk !

>Too Much

>Sage tea  is a "drying"' herb. Try a fresh sprig in a cup of hot water and

>sweetened to taste. Take this tea as often as necessary.

>Too Little

>Try a tea made by soaking a few .i.fenugreek ;seeds in a cup of hot water.

>Fenugreek seeds can be sprouted and eaten in a salad.

>Fennel, aniseed, and raspberries (actually .i.raspberry leaf; but try

>raspberries anyway) are said to help, so too is borage. Add a little

>chopped borage to a salad and eat half an hour before feeding the baby.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I read these suggestions, I am wondering whether any of these herbs have

been tested on the toxicity to the nursing child.  Everything I have read so

far deals with how to help the mother for nursing, not the effects on the

baby.  Especially the suggestion for drinking beer.  This is not to mention

that what mother consumes will have an effect on the way that the milk

tastes like to the baby, and I am thinking about borage (I am sorry, but

borage to me is the most awful tasting stuff I have ever had, maybe I'm not

preparing it correctly).  I wish I could give a reference to the study, but

I can't seem to find the article.  If I remember correctly, it was about how

certain foods, drugs, chemicals, were found to accumulate in the mother's

milk which can be dangerous at certain levels to the baby.  If anyone knows

of this study or any others, please comment.

-Valerie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>.i.Blessed Thistle; (.i.Cnicus benedictus;) is a rampant outback weed. Make

>a strong tea of the plant and drink half an hour before feeding. Often the

>alcoholic tincture of the plant can be found in health food shops or your

>local herbalist might have some on his shelves. It is one of the nicer

>tasting herbal medicines.

>.i.Beer; or stout is the remedy preferred by the sisters at our local

>hospital! Try testing out all the different brands and let me know which

>works best?

>

>For excellent advice  on feeding babies contact your local Nursing Mothers'

>Association.

>

>

>Michael Bailes

>The Fragrant Garden

>Portsmouth Road

>Erina. N.S.W. 2250

>Australia.

>Int fax 61 43 651979 Phone 043 677322

>Next Chilli festival  8/9  March 1997

>frgntgar@worldgrp.fastlink.com.au (Michael Bailes)

>"I've decided to skip 'holistic.'  I don't know what it means, and I don't

>want to know.

>That may seem extreme, but I followed the same strategy toward 'Gestalt'

>and 'The Twist,' and lived to tell the tale."

>Calvin Trillin

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:07:33 -0800

--------

I've always wondered, well not always, just since nursing...How much of what

I consume goes to the baby?  Also, how long does it take to get there?



I've been told that only 1% of alcohol goes thru the breast milk.  What

percent of herbs go to the baby?  If I drink Chamomile tea, how much does he

get?  Should I give the baby the Chamomile straight instead? (Actually, I've

done this and a few drops have helped calm him during the colicy period,

thanks to all who mentioned this herb).   If I drink a beer how much does

the baby get?  (Don't think I should give that straight!)



Are there any actual studies done that show:  Mother ate this at 1:00pm

                                              In baby's system at 4:00pm?



There must be something done on this line.



Thanks,

Krista





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Breast milk

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:49:36 -0900

--------

At 10:07 PM 1/21/97 -0800, K. wrote:

>I've always wondered, well not always, just since nursing...How much of what

>I consume goes to the baby?  Also, how long does it take to get there?

>

>I've been told that only 1% of alcohol goes thru the breast milk.  What

>percent of herbs go to the baby?  If I drink Chamomile tea, how much does he

>get?  Should I give the baby the Chamomile straight instead? (Actually, I've

>done this and a few drops have helped calm him during the colicy period,

>thanks to all who mentioned this herb).   If I drink a beer how much does

>the baby get?  (Don't think I should give that straight!)

>

>Are there any actual studies done that show:  Mother ate this at 1:00pm

>                                              In baby's system at 4:00pm?

>

>There must be something done on this line.

>

>Thanks,

>Krista

>

>

Please, for you sake and your baby's sake, don't drink ANY alcohol.  If you

drink chamomile tea, the baby does get some benefit but it would be better

to put a little in a bottle or use a dropper to give it to the baby.  Why

would you give your baby beer anyway?  I think the suggestion was for the

MOTHER to drink beer to increase milk supply.  Better to take some brewers

yeast in a glass of juice.  However, this may cause gas for the baby, you'll

have to experiment with this one.  I did this with my children and only one

experienced gas with it.  It makes prodigious milk (at least in me).

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Ester-C Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Walter Semerenko <walter@ORLINTER.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:24:04 +0000

--------

At 05:07 PM 1/16/97 -0900, you wrote:



>While immune system helpers like echinacea and vitamin C may help alot.



I would suggest you taking Ester-C which is a special form of vitamin C.  It

is a bunch of ascorbic molecules formed into a bigger molecule.  Studies

have shown that approx. 73% of vit. C is removed in the body within 24

hours.  On the other hand, only 5% is eliminated from taking Ester-C.  Also,

ascorbic acid is 2.4 ph which can upset your stomach if you take a big dose

suddenly.  Ester-C is neutral.  From what I gather, you can take

6000mg-8000mg of vit C during colds.  (I'd probable take btw. 3000-4000 mg

though)  Its best to start with small dosages and gradually increase.



I had a two colds so far this winter season and I have been taking vit. C,

echinacea, zinc (boosts your immune system), and drinking green tea.  The

first cold started with a stuffed up nose.  I started taking everthing but

after two days, I went out of town and left my herb/vitamins home so it

lasted a week with only vit. C and green tea.  The symptoms didn't get that

bad...just got a sore throat in the meantime.  The second time I started

with a mild sore throat and took approx. 8 pills of echinacea a day, 4000 mg

of vit. C, green tea whenever I could drink and in three days the symptoms

were gone.  I really think the echinacea worked, but it takes a couple days

for it to kick in.



Walter.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ester-C Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 06:30:03 GMT

--------

> I would suggest you taking Ester-C which is a special form of vitamin C.  It

> is a bunch of ascorbic molecules formed into a bigger molecule.  Studies

> have shown that approx. 73% of vit. C is removed in the body within 24

> hours.  On the other hand, only 5% is eliminated from taking Ester-C.

Also,

> ascorbic acid is 2.4 ph which can upset your stomach if you take a big dose

> suddenly.  Ester-C is neutral.  From what I gather, you can take

> 6000mg-8000mg of vit C during colds.  (I'd probable take btw. 3000-4000 mg

> though)  Its best to start with small dosages and gradually increase.



These results are controversial. Notice that the comparison is ALWAYS to

ascorbic acid, NEVER to ascorbate, which is commonly available in health food

stores, and is considerably cheaper.



> The second time I started

> with a mild sore throat and took approx. 8 pills of echinacea a day, 4000

mg

> of vit. C, green tea whenever I could drink and in three days the symptoms

> were gone.  I really think the echinacea worked, but it takes a couple days

> for it to kick in.

>

> Walter.



Colds should clear up in three days anyhow. If it takes longer, you haven't

treated it well, or you haven't been treating YOURSELF well, and need to

'have a care.'



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb from belize/some nitty gritty

From: Richard Ebensteiner <info51@PHYTOTHERAPEUTIC.COM>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:04:52 PST

--------

Melinda A. Correll  Yellem@AOL.COM wrote: on 01/13/97

"hello

i am desperately trying to find out the name of a herb i took in belize a few

years ago. it was a blood cleanser, very bitter, of the cuscutaceae family i

believe. the common name i do not remember, but i think it had "cat" in the

name. the flowers were a yellow/orange, the fruits were gourd-like and

smallish with bumps. its vines grew abundantly in a town (?) near the western

border of belize.

if anyone can shed any light on this mystery, i would be most grateful.

thank you"



Dear Ms. Melinda

        I beleive that what follows is a description of the plant that grows abundantly near the Western border of Belize.



        I first came in contact with Momordica charantia, "Sorosi", as it is called in Belize in 1984 when it was handed to me all prepared to drink.  It tasted bitter and I asked why; for what they drank this.

        Drink it he stated "it is good for the blood."

        Later, I got to understand,  that the local Ketchi and the Mopan Maya drink it to purify the blood (stimulates the phagocytes, researchers say).  The Garifuna have many uses for this plant.   I found several Universities and Institutations conducting research on Sorosi, (Momordica charantia)

        Scientific research doctors have been validating the Belizean use of Momordica charantia for over 35 years.  This plant is used by many a disease preventative.

Item from>>  please read whole faq from step@eskimo.com

Seattle Treatment Education Project



Momordica charantia, "Chinese Bitter Melon," is a vegetable which has

been used in traditional Chinese medicine as an appetite stimulant, a

treatment for gastrointestinal infection, and to lower blood sugar in

diabetics. Recently, it has also been used in the treatment of certain

types of cancer and viral infections. Researchers have discovered the

bitter melon also contains several proteins which have HIV-inhibitory

effects in vitro. The Momordica Anti-HIV Protein (MAP 30), has been

shown to inhibit reverse transcriptase activity, syncytium formation,

and p24 protein expression.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------end

Cultural names

        Balsam pear; Bitter melon; Chinese Bitter melon; Karela; Sorosi; Cerrase; La-kwa; Art pumpkin; ..and  many others.  I have found over 34.

        Research doctors and scientists from a variety of disciplines report powerful results when testing the medical plant Momordica charantia for diabetes, cancers, leukemia, lymphoma, tumors and viruses -including HIV-1.  Stimulates production of immune systems's phagocytes, activates Natural Killer (NK) cells, lowers serum cholesterol and blood glucose levels.  In recent years several proteins have been isolated from this plant.  Extracts have been shown to possess in-vivo anti-tumor activity and immune enhancement ability.  These extracts inhibited the formation of prostrate adenocarcinoma in rats and lymphoma in mice.

        The isolation of several bioactive proteins from Momordica charantia have been reported by Barbieri, L. and others in the Biochemical Journal; Takemoto, D. J., in Cancer Research and Fletcher, M. A., in the Federation of American Society of Experimental Biology.  Further research has demonstrated  that Momordica charantia inhibits both infection and

replication of HIV-1.

        Authors

        Sylvia Lee-Huang of New York School of Medicine, Department of Biochemistry, New York, NY 10016 USA

        Philip L. Huang of American Biosciences, NY 10021.  His present address is: Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA 02114 USA

        Peter L. Nara of Labatory of Tumor Cell Biology, National Cancer Instutite-Fredrick Research Facility, Fredrick, MD 21701 USA

        Hao-Chia Chen of Endocrinology and Reproduction Research Branch, National Instutite of Child Health and Human Development, Bethesda, Md 20892 USA

        Hsiang-fu Kung of Laboratory of Biochemical Physiology, National Cancer Institute-Fredrick Cancer Research Facility Fredrick, MD 21701 USA

        Peter Huang, Henry I. Huang, Paul Huang of the Department of Biochemistry, New York University School of Medicine, New York, NY 10016 USA

Other pertinent discoveries

        In 1983 Cancer Research magazine reported anti-tumor activity from a crude extract of Momordica charantia.  Tumor formation which had been injected with P-388 tumor cells and also reported that enhancement of the immune functions may contribute to the anti-tumor effects of Momordica charantia.

        In 1993 the Biochemical Journal reported that Momordica charantia inhibited tumor development.  The in-vivo and in-vitro results suggest that Momordica charantia potentially could be used in the treatment of CD-5 positive leukemia's and lymphoma's.

        In 1992 General Pharmacology reported that Momordica charantia exhibited abortifacient, anti-tumor and immunomodulatory activities.

        In 1994 the International Journal of Oncology Published an article with the title:  In Vitro Anti-Tumor Activity of the plant Ribosome Inactivating Proteins Map 30 and GAP  31.  MAP 30 and GAP 31 are plant proteins isolated from Momordica charantia and Gelonium multiflorium, respectively.  These proteins were submitted to the anti-cancer drug screening program of the National Cancer Instutite and found to have potent anti-tumor activity against certain human cell lines.  These included cell lines from renal, non-small cell lung, and breast cancer.  The authors further report that targeted immunofusions made with MAP 30 or GAP 31 maybe most effictive toward these types of tumors.  [The article contains 21 references]



http://www.med.nyu.edu/Research/S.Lee-Huang-res.html

New Anti-HIV Agents

Sylvia Lee-Huang, Ph.D.

Department of Biochemistry

We discovered a new class of anti-HIV agents from medicinal plants.

These agents act at multiple stages of the viral life cycle, affecting acute HIV-infection as well as replication of the virus in already infected cells. These anti-HIV agents are unique because they possess multiple capabilities to act on critical viral targets.

        1995 Lee-Huang S, Huang PL, Chen H-C, Huang PL, Bourinbaiar AS, Huang HI and Kung H-f. Anti-HIV and anti-tumor activities of recombinant MAP 30 of  bitter melon. Gene 161:151-156, 1995

        1995 Lee-Huang S, Huang PL, Huang PL, Bourinbaiar AS, Chen HC and Kung -f  Inhibition of HIV-1 integrase by plant antiviral proteins MAP 30 and GAP31. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 92:8818-8822, 1995



I have noticed that within Belize, it is usually drank as a tea after boiling for several minutes.  It is mixed with sugar and cream, etc. if desired.  Many drink Momordica charantia to prevent diseases of the blood; many use as cleanser to bath the skin.

Indeed, a very important plant.

Sincerely,

Richard















Much respect

for roots and culture Sittee River Red Hill Limited

Barranco Village, Belize, Central America

Maya Mountain FRESH -medicinal plant.Government certified

Momordica charantia (L.)..Airmail from Belize

-As a tea or food sprinkle

Please request research data at: info51@phytotherapeutic.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 06:29:52 GMT

--------

>         As I have never even *heard* of mitro valve prolapse I wouldn't

dream of

> giving any advice on this topic. My previous post concerned dealing with

> influenza and described a treatment I had practised on *myself* as well as

> others close to me, in an empirical sort of way.



And, indeed, MVP is one of those cases where it can be a great thing to have

antibiotics available, since infection in SOME cases can be fatal. This is

more an issue, in my opinion, in cases like dental abcess, root canal, etc.



>         Number one, in

> relation to influenza, this disease is said to be a virus. I have read that

> antibiotics have no effect on viruses whatsoever, ergo their use would be

> ineffective in the curing process if not counterproductive to the body's

> own immune responses.



There were humorous news reports, sponsored by the mindset of the NHI and

pharmaceutical corporations (who spend major bucks on tv, obviously), this

winter. On the one hand, those who took the 'vaccine' turned out not to be

protected from the strains of virus that appeared; but the other hand is that

the good news is that there is still time to get vaccinated!!! I kid you not.



Treatment of the flu by antibiotic is clearly not proper medical therapy, no.

Then again, if you have nothing to offer but medieval advice when your drugs

aren't indicated, you give your drugs whenever ANY argument for their use

exists. There _might_ be a concomittant bacterial infection.



Pathetic.



>Number two, due to their action of destroying

> bacteria in the body they evidently do not do all that good of a job in

> distinguishing between beneficial and harmful, at least that is what I have

> read and destroy many beneficial intestinal flora. This is one reason why I

> would avoid taking them *if at all possible*.



Well, short-course antibiotics do exist that don't do as much damage; and it

remains a fact that many herbs that are touted as heal-alls, like golden

seal, are most likely 'damaging' intestinal flora as well, when taken

aggressively.



>This is also why many people

> recommend the taking of yoghurt (Paul will crucify me for this) with or

> after a course of antibiotics.



Well, yogurt is a pathetic source of bacteria, unless you make it yourself.

Better innoculants exist in the health food stores, and it is those that

these MVP sufferers should take.



>Number three, the indiscriminate use of

> antibiotics, again according to the pundits, is responsible for many of the

> mutations that have rendered some bacterial virtually immune to the action

> of antibiotics. There may be number four...and five...



This is NOT due to mutation, causally, but to natural selection, secondarily.

Bacteria mutate all the time. So whatever survives has a clear path for

multiplication, and its progeny are resistent.



>         Back to the personal. I, personally, have not taken any antibiotics

for I

> don't know how many years. I have not needed them. If I got ill I would

> rest, take plenty of liquids, herb teas and in general excrete through

> urination or sweat whatever needed to be excreted. My body would then fight

> off what it needed to fight off. I remember even once not being able to

> raise a sweat and went out and ran a few kilometres. Believe it or not this

> cured me. I try to listen to my body.



The typical comment of a Yang-constitution. This wil NOT work for cystitis,

for blood infections, for pneumonia, for dysentery....



>         I'm not saying that antibiotics don't have their time and place. I

have

> seen antibiotics save lives on several occasions, but I think one should

> think twice before *casually* resorting to them, which is basically what I

> was reponding to in my previous post.



Agreed.





> If anyone is successfully following my rant I would like to continue it by

> saying that when I look at antibiotics I personally see a primitive form of

> healing. You know, like using the provberbial h-bomb to kill a fly. I think

> that on the horizon there are far more sophisticated techniques that will

> *ally* themselves with our own immuno responses. (That is if the planetary

> crossroads we are at can be crossed.)

>         I feel the same way when I look at the automobile. 19th century

> technology dressed up in 21st century garb pumping poisons into the very

> air we breath.



Herbal therapy and antibiotic therapy aren't that far apart. The area where I

agree with you, though, is that if you let things go to where an a-bomb

appears to be the only solution, then you deserve your antibiotics, and

hopefully your ignorance and poor lifestyle, to whatever degree they are

responsible, will get resolved after you solve the crisis by the only means

remaining.



Paul



[P.S. I'm out of town til Sunday, so don't expect replies til then.]





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: antibiotic rant

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:59:04 +0100

--------

Bruce,

        First I have to say that I am not in any a qualified medical practitioner

so anything I might posit in regard to life, herbs, and health is based

solely on what I have read and studied tempered by life experience; in

short the same as most of us.

        My rant:

        As I have never even *heard* of mitro valve prolapse I wouldn't dream of

giving any advice on this topic. My previous post concerned dealing with

influenza and described a treatment I had practised on *myself* as well as

others close to me, in an empirical sort of way.

        This being said there are several things about antibiotics that I have

read that purport to be from reliable sources. I would be seriously

surprised if any of the following were news to the informed people on this

list. We are all adults here and can use our judgement. Number one, in

relation to influenza, this disease is said to be a virus. I have read that

antibiotics have no effect on viruses whatsoever, ergo their use would be

ineffective in the curing process if not counterproductive to the body's

own immune responses. Number two, due to their action of destroying

bacteria in the body they evidently do not do all that good of a job in

distinguishing between beneficial and harmful, at least that is what I have

read and destroy many beneficial intestinal flora. This is one reason why I

would avoid taking them *if at all possible*. This is also why many people

recommend the taking of yoghurt (Paul will crucify me for this) with or

after a course of antibiotics.  Number three, the indiscriminate use of

antibiotics, again according to the pundits, is responsible for many of the

mutations that have rendered some bacterial virtually immune to the action

of antibiotics. There may be number four...and five...

        Back to the personal. I, personally, have not taken any antibiotics for I

don't know how many years. I have not needed them. If I got ill I would

rest, take plenty of liquids, herb teas and in general excrete through

urination or sweat whatever needed to be excreted. My body would then fight

off what it needed to fight off. I remember even once not being able to

raise a sweat and went out and ran a few kilometres. Believe it or not this

cured me. I try to listen to my body.

        I'm not saying that antibiotics don't have their time and place. I have

seen antibiotics save lives on several occasions, but I think one should

think twice before *casually* resorting to them, which is basically what I

was reponding to in my previous post.



        Paul, I would very much like to hear *your* comments on the relationship

between antibiotics and intestinal flora and the supposed need for and

method of their replenishment, if indeed this be the case.

        If indeed Bruce's wife and daughter are *obligated* to ingest massive

quantities of antibiotics it would be nice for them to have information

concerning ways to avoid  possible deleterious effects this may have.



See disclaimer below:



22:50 16/01/97 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-01-15 16:38:44 EST, you write:

>

><<  Meanwhile don't waste your time, money or intestinal flora taking

> antibiotics. >>

>

>Eric,

>

> In what ways do you mean "don't waste ..."  regarding antibiotics?  Are you

>saying that antibiotics are in general a waste of time and money?  I have a

>wife and a daughter who both have mitro valve prolapse and are instructed to

>take unusually high doses (6x normal) of amoxicillin prior to a dental

>cleaning in case some bacteria finds it's way into their system during the

>cleaning.  Is their a better, safer or more sure method?  I would appreciate

>your input or the input of others.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Bruce

>



Warning!!!!!!!!!!: off-topic discussion coming up. Please delete if you are

serious herbalist.



If anyone is successfully following my rant I would like to continue it by

saying that when I look at antibiotics I personally see a primitive form of

healing. You know, like using the provberbial h-bomb to kill a fly. I think

that on the horizon there are far more sophisticated techniques that will

*ally* themselves with our own immuno responses. (That is if the planetary

crossroads we are at can be crossed.)

        I feel the same way when I look at the automobile. 19th century technology

dressed up in 21st century garb pumping poisons into the very air we breath.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: herbal "serotinin reuptake inhibitors"?

From: Miriam Brooks <mbrooks@ECU.CAMPUS.MCI.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:20:27 PST

--------

I am a medical anthropologist conducting research on the prescribing

practices of primary care providers with regard to psychotropic drugs . I

strongly disagree with this superficial salve which medicalizes issues

that are clearly social in nature.   It is clear however that some people

"suffering from depression" do respond positively to these drugs. I am

aware that raw seal meat as eaten by the Inuit has positive effects on

mood and was wondering if anyone knows of other  foods or herbal

remedies that accomplish this effect.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbal "serotinin reuptake inhibitors"?

From: Jane Moody <jmoody@COMMUNITY.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:58:41 -0800

--------

Miriam Brooks wrote:



> "suffering from depression" do respond positively to these drugs. I am

> aware that raw seal meat as eaten by the Inuit has positive effects on

> mood and was wondering if anyone knows of other  foods or herbal

> remedies that accomplish this effect.



St. John's Wort is the most popular herbal SRI based anti-depressent.



Janie





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbal "serotinin reuptake inhibitors"?

From: Tina Bloom <Frumble@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:54:15 -0500

--------

Hi--I was doing some reading about St. John's Wort recently when it was

discussed on the list.... Here is some information I found on it when I was

online and copied-- an abstract concerning a large study published in the

British Medical Journal regarding its efficacy, and also text from an

interesting web site about hypericum that I found.  At least according to

what is on this web site, this herb is NOT an SSRI but is an MAO-inhibitor,

which is a big difference pharmacologically speaking (although the net effect

is hopefully the same).   Caveat--of course, as this came off of a web site,

I don't know how reliable this information is. I am new to herbs, obviously,

but it's all fascinating to me--I guess my angle, being stunted by an

allopathic education, is that I want to know the pharmacology of these things

and how they work.  If anyone can recommend a good reference of this

nature,.....please!

Tina Bloom

Text follows:

Abstracts from BMJ No. 7052 Volume 313

Saturday 3 August 1996



BMJ No. 7052 Volume 313 Saturday 3 August 1996



St John's wort  for depression - an overview  and  meta-analysis of

 randomised  clinical  trials

Klaus Linde, Gilbert Ramirez, Cynthia D Mulrow, Andrej Pauls, Wolfgang

Weidenhammer, Dieter

Melchart Abstract

Objective - To investigate if extracts of Hypericum perforatum (St John's

wort) are more effective than

placebo in the treatment of depression, are as effective as standard

antidepressive treatment, and have

fewer side effects than standard antidepressant drugs.

Design - Systematic review and meta-analysis of trials revealed by searches.

Trials - 23 randomised trials including a total of 1757 outpatients with

mainly mild or moderately severe

depressive disorders: 15 (14 testing single preparations and one a

combination with other plant extracts)

were placebo controlled, and eight (six testing single preparations and two

combinations) compared

hypericum with another drug treatment.

Main outcome measures - A pooled estimate of the responder rate ratio

(responder rate in treatment

group/responder rate in control group), and numbers of patients reporting and

dropping out for side

effects.

Results - Hypericum extracts were significantly superior to placebo (ratio =

2.67; 95% confidence interval

1.78 to 4.01) and similarly effective as standard antidepressants (single

preparations 1.10; 0.93 to 1.31,

combinations 1.52; 0.78 to 2.94). There were two (0.8%) drop outs for side

effects with hypericum and

seven (3.0%) with standard antidepressant drugs. Side effects occurred in 50

(19.8%) patients on hypericum

and 84 (52.8%) patients on standard antidepressants.

Conclusion - There is evidence that extracts of hypericum are more effective

than placebo for the

treatment of mild to moderately severe depressive disorders. Further studies

comparing extracts with

standard antidepressants in well defined groups of patients and comparing

different extracts and doses are

needed.

Projekt "Munchener Modell",Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitat,Kaiserstrasse

9,80801 Munich,Germany

Klaus Linde,scientific assistant Wolfgang Weidenhammer, biostatistician

Dieter Melchart,project leader

San Antonio Cochrane Center,  Audie L Murphy Memorial Veterans Hospital, San

Antonio,TX 78284,

 Gilbert Ramirez, codirector  Cynthia D Mulrow, professor of medicine Private

Practice for Neurology and Psychiatry, 80796 Munich Andrej Pauls, consultant

psychiatrist

Correspondence to: Dr Linde.



This page designed & written by Gary Ozarko

... Hypericum

ST. JOHN'S WORT

HYPERICUM PERFORATUM

FAMILY: HYPERICACEAE

PART USED: Herb



PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTIONS:

Antidepressant; Antiseptic; Antiviral; Aromatic; Astringent; Diuretic (weak)

& Anti-enuretic; Pectoral;

Resolvent; Nervine; Topically also as mild analgesic.



INDICATIONS:

NERVOUS / EMOTIONAL:

(use topical & systemic) Neuralgia, especially if associated with injury;

sciatica; spinal pains or

inflammation; ANY injury involving nerve damage; nightmares; depression.

Respiratory / E. N. & T. :

Colds associated with coronaviruses (but not rhinovirus); coughs; all lower

respiratory disorders

including haemoptysis; chronic lung catarrh; T.B.; Cytomegalovirus.

GENITO/URINARY:

Affections of urinary passages (highly esteemed); enuresis (especially

child's).

SKIN & LYMPH:

(use topical & systemic) Wounds, especially if septic &/or in areas of nerve

concentration as fingers &

toes; boils; lymphangitis (typically associated streptococci); cellulitis;

ulcers; rashes of nervous origin; hard

swellings; ecchymosis (bruises); vesicles of HSV types 1 & 2; H.Varicella

(Chickenpox); H.Zoster (Shingles);

Poxviruses (Small Pox epithelial lesions, etc); Rubella virus (German

Measles); EBV.

HEPATIC :

HBV, BUT not HAV (type "A" Hepatitis)

MUSCULO-SKELETAL :

(topical & systemic) Fibrositis, associated strain or trauma to ligament.

G.I.T. :

Disorders involving intestinal catarrh; dysentery & diarrhoea; haemorrhoids

(topical & systemic).

GENERAL :

Other enveloped viruses include Orthomyxoviruses ('flu types A, B, & C);

Paramyxovirus (Para-influenza

types 1 - 4 & Mumps); Retroviruses that cause some types of neoplasia &

A.I.D.S.; Togaviruses;

Bunyaviruses; Arenaviruses; & Rhabdovirus (Rabies).





CONTRAINDICATIONS:

Definitely NOT contraindicated for depression (old editions of BHP are WRONG

as they say it is not used

during depression.). In some individuals prolonged duration of high dose may

= skin photosensitivity.



HISTORY:

All pulmonary complaints; bladder trouble; dysentery; diarrhoea; depression;

jaundice, cancer.



PHARMACOGNOSY :

Phytochemistry :

Glycosides - Hypericin & pseudohypericin

Flavonoids - Rutin & Xanthones

Tannin 10%; Volatile oil 1%; Resins



Pharmacokinetics:

1] Topical use of tannins can inactivate viral proteins on contact.

2] Xanthones inhibit Mono-amine Oxidase type A & possibly MAO type B =

definite effect in treating

depression, value of treatment evident after 4 - 6 weeks duration.

3] Hypericin may also have ability to treat depression PROVIDING patient has

regular exposure to natural

sunlight. Hypericin appears to have ability to react with & inhibit viral

proteins.

4] Both Hypericin & pseudohypericin "interfere with the assembly or

processing of viral components by

infected cell ... both have strong affinity for lipids & their cellular

activity appears to be localized at cell

membrane."

5] Reports that Hypericum may provoke photodermatitis in man include other

items such as: orange,

lime, fig, parsnip, carrot, celery, dill. Conclusion - there's going to be

SOMEBODY out there that will be

sensitive to what ever is used as a remedy (or food!). Consideration: if

patient's case history shows

photodermatitis, then patient has already been sensitized by a furocoumarin

or pharmaceutical such as

Sulphonamide, Tetracycline, or Declomycin. If so, area of skin appears even

years after with atrophic-

looking skin area surrounded by ring of dark pigment.

SPECIAL NOTE re: drug interactions --- Even though Hypericum is a MAO

inhibitor, it appears it can be

safely used with pharmaceuticals that are typically not used with MAO

inhibitors; so long as the dose of

Hypericum is within the recommended therapeutic window, its action as a MAO

inhibitor is weak and

takes considerable time.

Like to have a look at a JPEG photo of Hypericum? Click HERE





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbal "serotinin reuptake inhibitors"?

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:08:43 +0000

--------

> At least according to

> what is on this web site, this herb is NOT an SSRI but is an MAO-inhibitor,

> which is a big difference pharmacologically speaking (although the net effect

> is hopefully the same).



First, A note about medline abstracts:



Remember that you  can't always take research from

pulverised rat brains and pure chemicals in petri dishs and apply it

to humans taking whole herbs.



Current thought is that hypericum is both MAO inhibiting and an SSRI

(possibly), and there are other mechinisms at work also. Hypericum

is a plant with many facets, It's not so simple as Prozac, a drug

that is an SSRI.



The MAO effects are way too low to be the only cause of

anti-depressive effects. Check medline to find many references to

confirming this.



> and how they work.  If anyone can recommend a good reference of this

> nature,.....please!



http://ww.hypericum.com is a good plce to start





> Pharmacokinetics:

> 1] Topical use of tannins can inactivate viral proteins on contact.



Yet in the body,most tannins just pass through the GI tract. Tannins

are not anti-viral in your body, or we could use black tea instead of

Echinacea. However, it will kill those viruses in a pertri dish.







> 2] Xanthones inhibit Mono-amine Oxidase type A & possibly MAO type B =

> definite effect in treating

> depression, value of treatment evident after 4 - 6 weeks duration.



Yet hypericum is not purified Xanthones. The inhibition with

hypericum is so mild that it is about the same a bree cheese. This is

too low to be responible for the depressive effect. ) although

perhaps accounts for part of a synergistic effect.





> 3] Hypericin may also have ability to treat depression PROVIDING patient has

> regular exposure to natural

> sunlight.



Exposure to natural sunlight may help depression without st. john's

wort. The clinical trials we have heard about for depression was

using WHOLE herb, when these same trials were conducted using pure

hypericin, the pure chemical didn't work at all. (from European

Journal of Herbal Medicine).





> Hypericin appears to have ability to react with & inhibit viral

> proteins.

> 4] Both Hypericin & pseudohypericin "interfere with the assembly or

> processing of viral components by

> infected cell ... both have strong affinity for lipids & their cellular

> activity appears to be localized at cell

> membrane."



St John's Wort (whole herb) seems to have anti-viral properties, but

to try and localize it to one or two constituents is dificult at

best. MANY MANY herbs and chemicals are anti-viral in petri dishes

but not in the human body.







> 5] Reports that Hypericum may provoke photodermatitis in man include other

> items such as: orange,

> lime, fig, parsnip, carrot, celery, dill. Conclusion - there's going to be

> SOMEBODY out there that will be

> sensitive to what ever is used as a remedy (or food!). Consideration: if

> patient's case history shows

> photodermatitis, then patient has already been sensitized by a furocoumarin

> or pharmaceutical such as

> Sulphonamide, Tetracycline, or Declomycin. If so, area of skin appears even

> years after with atrophic-

> looking skin area surrounded by ring of dark pigment.



In normal doses we won't see this. See the herb FAQ or Hypericum and

photosensitivity on my homepage. I have heard about more

photosensitivity now than ever before. I contribute this to

overdoses. I personally feel that the manufacturers are making

standardized pills too strong, and many people are taking away more

than what the Europeans used for their anti-depresion clinical

trials. We don't see photosensitivity in NORMAL SANE dosages.







> SPECIAL NOTE re: drug interactions --- Even though Hypericum is a MAO

> inhibitor, it appears it can be

> safely used with pharmaceuticals that are typically not used with MAO

> inhibitors; so long as the dose of

> Hypericum is within the recommended therapeutic window, its action as a MAO

> inhibitor is weak and

> takes considerable time.



Like I said, it IS a mao inhibitor, but so weak as to not even cause

drug interactions.

>

Howie Brounstein



howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbal "serotinin reuptake inhibitors"?

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:10:14 -0900

--------

At 02:20 AM 1/17/97 PST, Miriam Brooks wrote:

>I am a medical anthropologist conducting research on the prescribing

>practices of primary care providers with regard to psychotropic drugs . I

>strongly disagree with this superficial salve which medicalizes issues

>that are clearly social in nature.   It is clear however that some people

>"suffering from depression" do respond positively to these drugs. I am

>aware that raw seal meat as eaten by the Inuit has positive effects on

>mood and was wondering if anyone knows of other  foods or herbal

>remedies that accomplish this effect.

>

>

It is interesting about the seal meat.  Seal meat is extremely high in

vitamin A.  So much so in fact that eating large quantities of it

(particularly organ meat) can be toxic.  I wonder if this has anything to do

with it.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbal "serotinin reuptake inhibitors"?

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:58:58 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-17 01:33:46 EST, you write:



> It is clear however that some people

>"suffering from depression" do respond positively to these drugs. I am

>aware that raw seal meat as eaten by the Inuit has positive effects on

>mood and was wondering if anyone knows of other  foods or herbal

>remedies that accomplish this effect.

>

>



L-Tyrosine, St. Johns Wort, Kava Kava, Schizandra, Chocolate, Lavendar, Flax

Oil (EFA's), and Nutritional Yeast Flakes (high in B Vits.) are all

possibilities.



Wishing you all the best,



Kathy~





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herbal "serotinin reuptake inhibitors"?

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:08:44 +0000

--------

> From:          Miriam Brooks <mbrooks@ECU.CAMPUS.MCI.NET>

> Subject:       herbal "serotinin reuptake inhibitors"?



> I am a medical anthropologist conducting research on the prescribing

> practices of primary care providers with regard to psychotropic drugs . I

> strongly disagree with this superficial salve which medicalizes issues

> that are clearly social in nature.   It is clear however that some people

> "suffering from depression" do respond positively to these drugs. I am

> aware that raw seal meat as eaten by the Inuit has positive effects on

> mood and was wondering if anyone knows of other  foods or herbal

> remedies that accomplish this effect.

>

>

There are a few assumptions here I wish to address and

points to make (although I really am neither flaming nor trying to be

personal, just educating):



1. <assumption>: THe herbs that treat depression are serotonin

reuptake inhibitors (sri's). Most of the herbs or foods that

accomplish this haven't been thoroughly studied in relation to

serotonin reuptake. Nor is serotonin reuptake the only mechanism of

anti depression medications. Prozac is a serotonin reuptake

inhibitor, and this has popularized the concept. St John's wort might

be one (to me one medline abstract does not equal truth).



2. <assumption> increasing serotonin levels cures all depression.

There are other factors here to account for, and other

neurotransmitter levels to factor in. We can not isolate one chemical

pathway in a complex process and base everything on it. Not all

depressions respond to just SRI's.



3. Even if we agree that a serotonin increase is the pathway to work

on, reuptake is only one way to accomplish this. One way is to

increase serotonin production (via precursers, etc.), decrease its

breakdown (SRI's do this), and I have even seen medline abstracts

suggesting St John's Wort actually sensitizes or "turns on" more

serotonin receptors on the post synaptic side of things ...

essentially making the same amount of serotonin more effective.





Final point, both plants and human body are very complex.



Howie Brounstein



howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: looking for help... baglady

From: Barb Schommer <BagLady911@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:18:22 -0500

--------

I am in need of any information you may have on the

eastern redcedar - red juniper - juniperus virginiana

i need this for a class...



thanks sooo much





barb





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: DHEA

From: "V. Suzanne Drake" <tanager@CRL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:54:48 -0800

--------

Welcom back, Paul.  I read in a health magazine that DHEA would help me

live longer, improve my memory and a few other things.  Being of an age

where I am concerned that I live long and with good health, I am

interested. Can you tell me what is DHEA and give me any information/

opinions that you may have on this product?  Suzanne





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A.D.D.

From: Carolyn Johnson Lewis <CBJLword@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:05:26 -0500

--------

We have friends whose 14-year old son has been diagnosed with severe A.D.D.

 The mother says they began him on Ritalin when he was very young, and now at

14 he was put on a very serious tranquilizer, as his behavior is so bizarre.

 I don't know too many more details because it is a sensitive issue with the

family, but the mother says she herself has been diagnosed with A.D.D. which

she says is part of a manic depressive tendency in the entire family. I have

noted the Ritalin-Free Child book someone mentioned a few days ago.  But

would like to know what herbs I can suggest to her.  Oh yes.  The boy took

himself off the tranquilizer because he "did not feel like himself" and

immediately started illegal drugs at school.  They say he eats only pasta,

and of course a nutritionist is being discussed as the first step toward

alternative medicine.  Are there any herbs other than St. John's Wort and a

good eating plan which may be helpful to this mother for herself and her son

as sufferers of A.D.D.? I'd like to know more about the diagnosis, too,

although I don't know if this list is the place for that.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A.D.D.

From: Maureen Rogers <HERBWORLD@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:22:04 -0500

--------

Herbs Etc (1340 Rufina Circle, Santa Fe, NM 87501; 505-471-6488) has recently

developed an extract called Kidalin(TM) for ADD.  It's a combination of

Catnip, Damiana, Kola nut, Lavender, Chamomile, Periwinkle, Lemon Balm,

Licorice & Oat seeds.



Maureen Rogers

The Herb Growing and Marketing Network

2nd Annual Herb Business Winter Getaway Conference, Feb 6-10, Baton Rouge, LA

http://www.herbnet.com/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A.D.D.

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:57:15 GMT

--------

> Herbs Etc (1340 Rufina Circle, Santa Fe, NM 87501; 505-471-6488) has

recently

> developed an extract called Kidalin(TM) for ADD.  It's a combination of

> Catnip, Damiana, Kola nut,

                                   ^^^^^^



>Lavender, Chamomile, Periwinkle, Lemon Balm,

> Licorice & Oat seeds.



So parents can hype their kids up on CAFFEINE and stimulants like damiana.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A.D.D.

From: Terry King <terryk@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:02:21 EST

--------

I am under the impression that people who truly are ADD (if there are

really any) experience a downer effect from caffeine and other

stimulants.



Terry     terryk@juno.com

When searching for faults use a mirror not a telescope. Unknown

If you always do what you have always done, you'll only get what you

already have.

Harry Browne, Liberatarian





On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:57:15 GMT Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

writes:

>> Herbs Etc (1340 Rufina Circle, Santa Fe, NM 87501; 505-471-6488) has

>recently

>> developed an extract called Kidalin(TM) for ADD.  It's a combination

>of

>> Catnip, Damiana, Kola nut,

>                                   ^^^^^^

>

>>Lavender, Chamomile, Periwinkle, Lemon Balm,

>> Licorice & Oat seeds.

>

>So parents can hype their kids up on CAFFEINE and stimulants like

>damiana.

>

>Paul

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A.D.D.

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:02:31 -0900

--------

At 03:02 PM 1/20/97 EST, Terry King wrote:

>I am under the impression that people who truly are ADD (if there are

>really any) experience a downer effect from caffeine and other

>stimulants.

>

THis is true.  I know of a young man who went to Europe and ran out of his

Ritalin.  He drank Coca Cola and got a similar effect. It's interesting how

some things affect other differently.  Take antihistamines for example.

Most people become drowsy on them, a few get hyped.  I would think that, as

bad as it is, Coca Cola would be preferable to Ritalin. (Flame umbrella raised)

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Tibet

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:15:53 -0500

--------

P_> How profoundly  cynical!   Conflating  the academic Chinese with

the military and bureaucratic government is simply bigotry.



Sorry the juxtaposition of names places a burr under your saddle.  I

suggest you take your case to Ricters - after all it was their  newsletter

being discussed.



And  similarly we could say - How profoundly naieve!  Justifying the agenda

of murderers is simply stupidity.





P_> It is certainly not an  accurate  depiction of the hearts of the

intelligensia, ESPECIALLY since the last ten or fifteen  years  have

seen a near-complete reversal of the Cultural Revolution dogma.



I am impressed that  you  can  see  into  the  hearts of the Chinese

intelligensia, half way round the world.  By chance, do I  hear  you

including yourself as a member of "the" inteligensia?



Similarly here we could  say  -  The  holocaust  is certainly not an

accurate depiction  of  the  hearts  of  the  German  intelligensia,

ESPECIALLY  since  the last 45 or 50 years have seen a near

complete reversal of the holocaust dogma.



Fill  me  in - I don't understand what the hearts of the present day

intelligensia, whether German or Chinese, have to do with either the

holocaust or the cultural revolution.  The only difference I can see

between the two is in  the  numbers  of dead people.  Hitler's score

was somewhere between 7-10 million (including a bunch of the  german

intelligensia),  while  the  cultural  revolution  cost the lives of

10-20 times that number  of  people.   Did  Hitler miss a sure thing

here?  Had he called his  version  of  the  murder  inc.   agenda  a

cultural  revolution, then wouldn't that have made everything OK?  -

Maybe I have I missed something.



Intellectual rationalizations be damned, murder is still murder.



What  is going on in Tibet is nothing more than Chinese imperialism.

If the Chinese running Tibet are such nice guys, then why don't they

go home and leave the Tibetans alone?





P_> The Tibetan pharmacopeia is extant in its ancient form, but  the

conceptualization   of   Tibetan  medicine  suffers  from  the  same

nonrational basis as Ayurveda.



I seem to run on a different wave length.  It has been my experience

that  all  systems  of  healing  contain  truths,  if not the system

disappears.  I find investigating them with  an open mind is part of

the  fun.   I'd  bet  approaching  them  with  a  closed   mind   is

intellectual foolishness.





P_> If, instead, you  are  applying  tradition in a near-vacuum, you

are very likely to go no where or to the wrong place entirely.



The same can be  said  for  applying  allopathic  drugs,  or  herbal

extracts in a near-vacuum.  Big Deal.



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Tibet

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:57:28 GMT

--------

> P_> How profoundly  cynical!   Conflating  the academic Chinese with

> the military and bureaucratic government is simply bigotry.

>

> Sorry the juxtaposition of names places a burr under your saddle.  I

> suggest you take your case to Ricters - after all it was their  newsletter

> being discussed.



Richter's is not an entirely reliable resource, no.



> And  similarly we could say - How profoundly naieve!  Justifying the agenda

> of murderers is simply stupidity.



What a stupid thing to say. You don't really understand the issue, which

involves healers vs. bureaucrats and militarists. There are a plenitude of

very fine healers in China who CERTAINLY DO NOT support the military efforts

in Tibet. To suggest they do, absent ANY data, is libelous and a lie.



> P_> It is certainly not an  accurate  depiction of the hearts of the

> intelligensia, ESPECIALLY since the last ten or fifteen  years  have

> seen a near-complete reversal of the Cultural Revolution dogma.

>

> I am impressed that  you  can  see  into  the  hearts of the Chinese

> intelligensia, half way round the world.  By chance, do I  hear  you

> including yourself as a member of "the" inteligensia?



I do because I read their books and study their lines of thought. You?



As for the "intelligensia,' yeah, I'm a member. Is that some sort of crime?



> Similarly here we could  say  -  The  holocaust  is certainly not an

> accurate depiction  of  the  hearts  of  the  German  intelligensia,

> ESPECIALLY  since  the last 45 or 50 years have seen a near

> complete reversal of the holocaust dogma.



Nothing of the sort is a legitimate parallel. The rest of your hysterical

posturing deleted.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Coffee :(

From: rob <rys@UCLA.EDU>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:34:45 -0800

--------

Herb Folks-

        More 'o that bad 'ol coffee stuff. I think we get the idea...





* A new study has found coffee consumption to be among the strongest

  lifestyle determinants of (blood) plasma homocysteine (tHcy).

    - tHcy has been linked to heart disease in the past.

    - tHcy levels found to be almost 60% higher for heavy

      coffee drinkers than for non-drinkers.

    - studied over 16,000 Norwegians.

    - those who smoke and drink large amounts of coffee were

      found to have the highest levels of all.

    - source: American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

      (1997;65(136):136-143).



[MedBrief - Friday, January 17, 1997

rob

rys@ucla.edu





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: green tea

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:26:08 -0800

--------

Hi guys.  I am wondering the benefits of drinking green tea on a daily

basis?  Someone mentioned it might have caffeine in it?

Linda N5WUH@fullnet.net (changed my address due to rates going up at

lindashipley@juno.com)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: green tea

From: Henriette Kress <HeK@HETTA.PP.FI>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:43:09 GMT

--------

On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:26:08 -0800, Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

wrote to HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR:



>Hi guys.  I am wondering the benefits of drinking green tea on a daily

>basis?  Someone mentioned it might have caffeine in it?



Green tea does contain caffeine unless it's decaffeinated. 

Benefits? It contains some flavonoids, which are not found in either black tea

or coffee, so you're better off drinking green tea than drinking other

caffeine-containing beverages.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: green tea

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:10:15 -0900

--------

At 12:26 PM 1/17/97 -0800, Mike & Linda Shipley wrote:

>Hi guys.  I am wondering the benefits of drinking green tea on a daily

>basis?  Someone mentioned it might have caffeine in it?

>Linda N5WUH@fullnet.net (changed my address due to rates going up at

>lindashipley@juno.com)

>

>

  The latest fad is drinking green tea because it has OPC's and reportedly

helps eliminate free radicals.  It may help some but many herbs have this

same action without caffeine.  Green tea is just black tea that hasn't been

processed so much.  It is the same plant.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: green tea

From: Walter Semerenko <walter@ORLINTER.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:36:29 +0000

--------

At 12:11 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote:



>Green tea (Camelia sinensis) does indeed have some caffeine (can't find the

>exact figures, but I'll keep looking!), albeit in far lesser quantities than

>black tea (same botanical, just fermented) and, of course, coffee.



[from: http://www.daisan.co.jp/health7.htm]

Tea contains caffeine which, when taken in the proper quantity, simulates

every organ in the body. It has a particularly strong effect on the central

nervous system, heart and liver. This reaction is even more pronounced when

one is sleepy or tired. A cup of tea or coffee will help clear a dull mind

after rising in the morning or after a prolonged period without sleep. The

power to stimulate and awaken the mind comes from caffeine. It is also said

that the amount of caffeine contained in normal servings of green tea can

stimulate the skeletal muscles and facilitate muscular contraction. For this

reason, it is quite helpful to drink tea or coffee in the middle of work to

refresh the mind and restore the body. We find it noteworthy that there is

some scientific support for such old

 customs as the afternoon snack, coffee break or tea time ritual.

 The caffeine in green tea is mostly extracted in the first infusion of the

leaves, but the quantities in subsequent infusions will still be greater

than coffee. And since green tea caffeine combines with catechin in the

brewing water, its action is said to be rather milder than other

caffeine-containing beverages. Even so, some people are sensitive to

caffeine and cannot sleep if they drink green tea before going to bed. It is

safer for such individuals to drink a weak green tea after dinner. Why not

treat yourself to a zestful day by enjoying the positive effects of mild

caffeine with the sweet aroma of green tea?



>I switched from coffee to green tea in the mornings about 3 years ago (2-3

>cups a day before noon with a healthy squeeze of fresh lemon juice and

>occasionally a touch of honey). Since then, I've never had a case of the

>"flu", only had a couple of very mild colds that never lasted more than a day

>or two (never get to use up my sick days anymore!).



I drink green tea at work now, and it keep me alert.  I work in front of a

computer and the mild sleepiness hits me some point during the day, but with

a cup of green tea I'm fine.  Green tea has antiviral properties, so it is

good to take it during colds and flus.  See

http://www.daisan.co.jp/health.htm for more info.



>Don't know for sure if there's a connection, but I do know I get a "clear

>head" without the edgy nervousness of coffee.



Same here.



Walter.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: green tea

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:11:18 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-17 14:28:27 EST, Linda Shipley wrote:



>Hi guys.  I am wondering the benefits of drinking green tea on a daily

> basis?  Someone mentioned it might have caffeine in it?



Green tea (Camelia sinensis) does indeed have some caffeine (can't find the

exact figures, but I'll keep looking!), albeit in far lesser quantities than

black tea (same botanical, just fermented) and, of course, coffee.



I switched from coffee to green tea in the mornings about 3 years ago (2-3

cups a day before noon with a healthy squeeze of fresh lemon juice and

occasionally a touch of honey). Since then, I've never had a case of the

"flu", only had a couple of very mild colds that never lasted more than a day

or two (never get to use up my sick days anymore!).



Don't know for sure if there's a connection, but I do know I get a "clear

head" without the edgy nervousness of coffee.



Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: green tea

From: Randy Froeba <htcw@GNA.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:29:39 -0600

--------

Mike & Linda Shipley wrote:

>

> Hi guys.  I am wondering the benefits of drinking green tea on a daily

> basis?  Someone mentioned it might have caffeine in it?

> Linda N5WUH@fullnet.net (changed my address due to rates going up at

> lindashipley@juno.com)

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Linda,

Both Green and Black Tea have CAFFEINE. Black Tea more due to the way

it is dried. They will not get you off coffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

They do have a + factor but if you

want to stop or cut back on

caffeine this is not the way.

Randy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 15 Jan 1997 to 16 Jan 1997

From: rob <rys@UCLA.EDU>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:43:32 -0800

--------

At 12:01 AM 1/17/97 +0200, you wrote:



>Date:    Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:49:52 -0500

>From:    Vicki Latta <luna@BBS.TSF.COM>

>Subject: Re: This darn influenza!!

>

>My favorite herb for fighting influenza is boneset.... Latin name:

>Eupatorium perfoliatum.  It's not an herb that seems to be found on the

>health food store shelves, although I couldn't say why.  It's far from

>palatable... but no worse than the very rare goldenseal.

>

>It's the best thing I've found for breaking up a fever, and banishing

>those terrible shivery chills that come with a bad case of the flu.

>Recall reading somewhere that some anti-viral properties had been found

>in extracts of boneset,            ^^^^^^^^^^

[SNIP]



Vicki-

        What you might be referring to is a more generalized immune respone

by the non-specific part of the immune system. I did mamange to dig up a

ref. (Note the first author of the study is a pioneer of the

pharmacognostics of _Echinacea_ spp. and many others.)

        The  medicinal _Eupatorium_s are generally cooling or cold, so you

want to use them with the hot, snotty feverish type "colds." Different parts

of different species have different uses and properties (hmmm, I guess this

goes for a lot of plants, huh :). Makes a good combination with sothing

diuretics to promote elimination and cooling. As with any condition where

the balance of health has been affected [insert the usual LIFESTYLE warnings

here!].



-------------------------

   Wagner, H; Jurcic, K.

     Immunological studies of plant extract combinations: In vitro and in vivo

   on the stimulation of phagocytosis.

     Arzneimittel-Forschung, v.41, n.10, (1991): 1072-1076.

     Language:  German.



Abstract:

     The activity of phagocytosis was tested in the in vitro granulocyte test

     and the in vivo carbon-clearance-test in the mouse for an extract

     combination consisting of four plant extracts (Echinacea angustifolia,

     Eupatorium perfoliatum, Baptisia tinctoria and Arnica montana). In both

     immune models, a step by step stimulation of the activity of phagocytosis

     by the addition of the four plant extracts was shown with an increase in

     effectiveness of partially over 50% in comparison to the pure Echinacea

     angustifolia mono-extract. The extract combination showed also in both

     test models a higher efficiency than two other differently composed

     combination preparations and two Echinacea mono-preparations.

-------------------------



Take Care!



rob

rys@ucla.edu





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Gingko

From: Duncan MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod <ejanison@MAIL.TWD.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:49:19 -0500

--------

Does anyone out there know anything about GINGKO or GINGKO BILOBA?  What is

it supposed to do and how much of it do you have to take to get the desired

effect?



-----------------------------------------------------------------

|          ED JANISON          |         EJANISON@TWD.NET       |

-----------------------------------------------------------------

| I was born 400 years ago in the highlands of Scotland.  I am  |

| IMMORTAL, and I am not alone.  For centuries, we have waited  |

| for the time of the GATHERING, when the stroke of a sword and |

| the fall of a head will release the power of the QUICKENING.  |

| In the end, there can be only one.                            |

-----------------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Gingko

From: Barb Schommer <BagLady911@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:37:21 -0500

--------

the ginko - is not closely related to any living family or group in the whole

vegetable kingdom and is the sole survivor of a family, rich in species,

which was distributred over the temperate regions of both the northern and

sourthern hemispheres when the dinosaurs roamed the eart.  It has been called

a living fossil, for it seems to be identical with fossil species that have

been described, and presumable was a common tree in the present temperate and

circumpolar regions of the whole northern hemispehere,  It seems probable

that glaciers caused its extinctin in Northern America, europe and western

sibera.  but in the milder climate of the orient, which the glaciers did not

reach, it survived.  Even there, however it no longer exists in a wild state,

and in Japan and China it is known only as a planted tree.



The fan shaped leaf is found in no other flowering plant, but it does suggest

the leaflet of the maidenhair fern.  Because the trees method of

fertilization of the female flower is similar to what takes place in the

ferns, botanists have called the ginko a missing link between flowering

plants and ferns.  The male cell has cilia or minute marginal hairs that

propel it with a vibratory movement.



At maturity the ginko is a stately tree 100 or more in height with a trunk

sometimes eight feet in diamerter.  In youth it has a continuous central

column, and is sparsely branched.



The fruit... it is said by some,, and i do not disagree that it smells like

decaying flesh... the male treee is much more popular than the female tree..

it grows everywhere,, and is really a quite attactive tree.  In china and

japan the wood is used for chess boards and ches men.



it was introduced into europe in 1730, and into england in 1754 from which

country thirty years later it was brought to the us...



hope this has been helpful info..





baglady911





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Gingko

From: Alisa Mantoni <angel@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:31:14 -0500

--------

WHY does the tree smell so bad?  is there something in the bark or the

leaves that gives it that odor?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Gingko

From: Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:13:43 GMT

--------

On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:31:14 -0500, Alisa Mantoni

<angel@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU> wrote:



>|WHY does the tree smell so bad?  is there something in the bark or the

>|leaves that gives it that odor?



It's the seeds on the female tree, of course. You expect medicine to

smell good too? :). I've smelled the tree while I lived in Sacramento,

CA (they grow in abundance) and boy you'd have to be almost dead to

want to grow it. That's the main reason you rarely see the female

tree.



Sarah, not a fan of the female Ginko :)



hitech@augusta.net

============================================================================

Sarah Elizabeth, Flemming       | They let me say it, I own it.

The HiTech Group                        | Come visit my home page:

P.O. Box 6629                   | http://www.augusta.net/sflemming/hitech/index.html

Aiken, PZ 29804-6629            | 

Republic of South Carolina      | or visit my candidate page:

      (803) 641-6554            | http://www.augusta.net/sflemming/index.html

FAX:  (803) 641-1332          | May the Lord guide and protect you.

============================================================================

"The Constitution is a radical document...it is the job of the

government to rein in people's rights." W.J.Clinton on MTV - 1992





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Gingko

From: Tina Bloom <Frumble@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:24:07 -0500

--------

Baglady--wonderfully informative post on Gingko.... I enjoyed it.

Here's my two cents: from my favorite seed catalog, the Ethnobotanical Seed

Catalog from J.L. Hudson, ($1, Star Route 2, Box 337, La Honda, CA  94020.

 I'm not connected in any way--just thought some in this group would enjoy

this catalog, established 1911, as it is full of open-pollinated and heirloom

seeds, beautiful old-fashioned line drawings, a subversive quote on every

page, and much information on the edible & medicinal properties of the

plants....)

They state:

"Ginkgoaceae-a single species.  Sprouts easily, $1.50.

Ginkgo biloba-"Maidenhair Tree". Hardy tree to 120 feet with handsome 2-3"

fan-shaped leaves.  Beautiful golden fall color.  E. China. A relict species

with identical fossils dating to 200 million years ago. Probably extinct in

the wild (may occur wild in Zhejiang) and surviving  only in cultivation.  As

this is the sole remaining member of a formerly widespread family, it is the

prime example of preservation through dissemination, and a model species for

biological enrichment. The seeds are eaten and both seeds & leaves are valued

in Chinese medicine, and have been proven useful for a variety of conditions

associated with aging.  Hardy to Zone 5 or more, easily grown, pest free.

 Plant it everywhere!"



Tina





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Gingko

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:32:01 -0800

--------

At 06:37 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>

>it was introduced into europe in 1730, and into england in 1754 from which

>country thirty years later it was brought to the us...

>

>hope this has been helpful info..

>

>

in washington state there is a state park called 'gingko petrified forest

state park'

now how did those trees brought here in 1784 get petrified so quickly? <g>



richard





<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: High Blood Pressure

From: Pat Howe <phowe@PTBO.IGS.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:10:08 -0500

--------

I have been listening to you all for about a week,  do you have a herbal

remedy for high blood pressure..

.

Thanx Barb





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: High Blood Pressure

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:51:58 -0800

--------

At 07:10 PM 1/17/97 -0500,  Pat Howe <phowe@PTBO.IGS.NET> wrote:

>I have been listening to you all for about a week,  do you have a herbal

>remedy for high blood pressure..

>.

>Thanx Barb

>

Garlic, Garlic, Garlic.  For high blood pressure and high cholesterol, both.

Praises sung by Sir John Harrington in The Englishman's Doctor, written in

1609, summarizes garlic's virtues:



        Garlic then have power to save from death

        Bear with it though it maketh unsavory breath,

        And scorn not garlic like some that think

        It only maketh men wink and drink and stink.



Uses of garlic date back to Sanskrit records approximately 5,000 years ago,

while the Chinese have been using it for at least 3,000 years.  Codex Ebers,

dating 1550 b.c., mentions garlic used for hypertension, headache, bites,

worms and tumors.  In general, garlic has been used throughout the world to

treat coughs, toothache, earache, dandruff, hypertension, atherosclerosis,

hysteria, diarrhea, dystentery, diptheria, vaginitis and many other

conditions.  Garlic protects against heart disease and strokes by

intervening in the process of atherosclerosis at many steps.  There is

substantial clinical information on garlic's beneficial effects on the

cardiovascular system.  Based on clinical research, the dosage of a

commercial garlic product should provide a daily dose of at least 10

milligrams allicin or a total allicin potential of 4,000 micrograms.



I prefer it fresh.  I use it in almost everything I cook.....and I regularly

crush garlic in water and drink it down, especially when those around me are

getting sick with colds or flu, as it is a wonderful immune system enhancer.

I have had high blood pressure in the past, but I seem to now have blood

pressure attributed to someone much younger than I am.  It is available in

the essential oil or oleoresin, gel caps, powder and tablets commercially,

but I still think fresh is best.



Be well,

Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: High Blood Pressure

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:44:07 -0900

--------

At 07:10 PM 1/17/97 -0500, Pat Howe wrote:

>I have been listening to you all for about a week,  do you have a herbal

>remedy for high blood pressure..

>.

>Thanx Barb

>

>

High blood pressure is not a disease in itself.  It is a symptom of long

time systemic problems.  Obesity, poor diet, stressful living, inadequate

rest, use of drugs (prescription and other), and many other unhealthful

habits contribute to this.  You have do do alot of changing to help this

problem.  It would be good to get to a good reliable holistic healer to

determine the cause before trying herbal bandaids on a symptom of larger

health problems.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: High Blood Pressure

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:44:12 -0900

--------

At 09:36 PM 1/17/97 +0000, John A wrote:

>Can someone tell me how to get off this list?

>

>does anyone care?

>

>

>Pahleeeze.....!!

>

>john

>

>

To subscribe:  Send e-maill to LISTSERV@trearnpc.ege.edu.tr; in the body of

the message type SUBSCRIBE HERB followed by your real name.

To unsubscribe send to the same address and request unsubscription.

Just say UNSUBCRIBE.  Should do the trick.  P.S. don't use a sig. It can

confuse an automatic listserv.  Posting to the list will not unsubscribe

you.  You must send to the listserv.



**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: High Blood Pressure

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:55 GMT

--------

> Garlic, Garlic, Garlic.  For high blood pressure and high cholesterol, both.



> Uses of garlic date back to Sanskrit records approximately 5,000 years ago,

> while the Chinese have been using it for at least 3,000 years.



And utterly inappropriate to cases of HBP due to HEAT.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: chaparral

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:04:32 -0800

--------

May I?  Have a question.  Is it safe to use this chaparral daily, or how

often do you use it?  I have a mouth full of cavities.

Linda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:22:21 EST

--------

I have found yougrt and acidophilous (et al) tablets a relatively

ineffective way to build up flora fast.   While the latest research I

heard found that some of it did survive the trip through the stomach, I

have found that cultures bound in fat seem to help the flora re-establish

faster.  So upon the rare occasions that I have used antibiotics, I go

buy very small amounts of several types of smelly cheese, a few different

brands of whole milk yogurt (including goats milk and ewe milk), and some

miso.  Then, for good measure, I throw in some fresh fermented sauerkraut

or kimchee and fresh pickles.



It used to take several weeks to re-establish flora.  With this regimine

it takes a few days.



(Of course that is no reason to engage in antibiotic abuse.)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:48:41 -0600

--------

Karen,

Not to discount how it affects you in any way, but I have had great success with

acidophilous tablets.  I used to have terrible problems with yeast

infections with little help from the creams and such.  Now, as soon as I

feel like I'm beginning to have one, which is not often anymore, I take one

acidophilous tablet and the next day it seems to be gone.  The bottle

recommends taking three to four tablets a day, but this seems excessive,

especially when one seems to do the trick.

-Valerie



 At 11:22 PM 1/17/97 EST, you wrote:

>I have found yougrt and acidophilous (et al) tablets a relatively

>ineffective way to build up flora fast.   While the latest research I

>heard found that some of it did survive the trip through the stomach, I

>have found that cultures bound in fat seem to help the flora re-establish

>faster.  So upon the rare occasions that I have used antibiotics, I go

>buy very small amounts of several types of smelly cheese, a few different

>brands of whole milk yogurt (including goats milk and ewe milk), and some

>miso.  Then, for good measure, I throw in some fresh fermented sauerkraut

>or kimchee and fresh pickles.

>

>It used to take several weeks to re-establish flora.  With this regimine

>it takes a few days.

>

>(Of course that is no reason to engage in antibiotic abuse.)

>

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:54:51 GMT

--------

On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:22:21 -0500 (EST), Karen Vaughan

<creationsgarden@JUNO.COM> wrote:



>|I have found yougrt and acidophilous (et al) tablets a relatively

>|ineffective way to build up flora fast.   While the latest research I

>|heard found that some of it did survive the trip through the stomach, I

>|have found that cultures bound in fat seem to help the flora re-establish

>|faster.  So upon the rare occasions that I have used antibiotics, I go

>|buy very small amounts of several types of smelly cheese, a few different

>|brands of whole milk yogurt (including goats milk and ewe milk), and some

>|miso.  Then, for good measure, I throw in some fresh fermented sauerkraut

>|or kimchee and fresh pickles.

>|

>|It used to take several weeks to re-establish flora.  With this regimine

>|it takes a few days.

>|

>|(Of course that is no reason to engage in antibiotic abuse.)

>|

>|Karen Vaughan

>|CreationsGarden@juno.com



Or if you really hate the antibiotic porcelain dance, you might try

going to a pharmancy and asking for Lactinate which is none

perscription but kept in the refridgerator. You can get it in either

pill or powder and it should be taken with something acidic. Follow

the instructions.



Not nearly so flavorful as Karens suggestion (by the way wheres the

hard salami and french bread, Karen?) but it fits in a small space in

the refridgerator. My husbands body for no reason I can discern

periodically kills off his flora and this is the method we use to

restablish it, quickly.



Sarah

Sarah Elizabeth, Flemming sui juris

hitech@augusta.net





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:08 GMT

--------

> At 15:54 18/01/97 GMT, Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>  wrote:

>

> > My husbands body for no reason I can discern

> >periodically kills off his flora and this is the method we use to

> >restablish it, quickly.

>

> Again I am seeking knowledge about this. How is it that you *know*, that

> is, how do you or he *judge* that your husband is without flora? As well,

> what is/are the criteria from which you judge that the flora have been

> re-established?



Exactly, and also: tell him to stop drinking coffee or alcohol, or sweets.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:48 GMT

--------

> I have found yougrt and acidophilous (et al) tablets a relatively

> ineffective way to build up flora fast.   While the latest research I

> heard found that some of it did survive the trip through the stomach, I

> have found that cultures bound in fat seem to help the flora re-establish

> faster.



It has nothing to do with fat.



>So upon the rare occasions that I have used antibiotics, I go

> buy very small amounts of several types of smelly cheese, a few different

> brands of whole milk yogurt (including goats milk and ewe milk),



So  which is it: effective or ineffective?



>and some

> miso.  Then, for good measure, I throw in some fresh fermented sauerkraut

> or kimchee and fresh pickles.



And so you provide lots of lactobacillus to your body, with a fair amount of

its natural 'food'...namely lactose, and a comfortable pH...namely that of

lactic acid.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:39:14 +0100

--------

At 15:54 18/01/97 GMT, Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>  wrote:



> My husbands body for no reason I can discern

>periodically kills off his flora and this is the method we use to

>restablish it, quickly.

>



Again I am seeking knowledge about this. How is it that you *know*, that

is, how do you or he *judge* that your husband is without flora? As well,

what is/are the criteria from which you judge that the flora have been

re-established?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:07:44 GMT

--------

On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:39:14 +0100, Eric Feingold

<eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES> wrote:



>|Again I am seeking knowledge about this. How is it that you *know*, that

>|is, how do you or he *judge* that your husband is without flora? As well,

>|what is/are the criteria from which you judge that the flora have been

>|re-established?



Well, he's had the problem much longer than I've known him. He's lived

in the Far East and South America most of his adult life. He was told

what the problem is by a doctor in one of the countries he lived in.

He now recognizes the systems of the onset (full blown lack of fauna

and you'll have the worst diarrhea in your life, it can be life

threatening if not taken care of (dehydration)). I've had the problem

once do to a long period of high dosage antibiotics. I was advised by

a pharmacist to drink a pint of buttermilk. He told me that it has

more of the beasties than yogurt and works faster. One pint (all I

could handle, I hate the stuff) and I was fine.



I would say you need to know the cause and if chronic what your body

tells you.



There isn't a question of knowing there is no maybes if the flora in

your digestive system isn't there or weakend. The food, water etc will

not get broken down and assimilated (read a medical text on the

effects if you're really in search of knowledge) and pass through your

system very quickly and continously.



Sarah, a wife, a victim and observer not a practioner of anykind.



hitech@augusta.net

============================================================================

Sarah Elizabeth, Flemming       | They let me say it, I own it.

The HiTech Group                        | Come visit my home page:

P.O. Box 6629                   | http://www.augusta.net/sflemming/hitech/index.html

Aiken, PZ 29804-6629            | 

Republic of South Carolina      | or visit my cadidate page:

      (803) 641-6554            | http://www.augusta.net/sflemming/index.html

FAX:  (803) 641-1332          | May the Lord guide and protect you.

============================================================================

"The Constitution is a radical document...it is the job of the

government to rein in people's rights." W.J.Clinton on MTV - 1992





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:16:26 GMT

--------

> L. sporogenes is the most stable , does not require refrigeration and is not

> contaminated

> with unwanted bacteria

>

> richard



According to whom? L. acidophilus is highly stable, doesn't require

refrigeration, and is in food rarely contaminated with 'unwanted bacteria.'



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:16:42 GMT

--------

> The fat makes a difference because the fat molecules are not broken down

> until they arrive in the intestine. The culture is protected from the

> gastric acid by the undigested fat.



Well, I recommend you examine the word 'acidophillus' in a dictionary:

ACID-LOVING. Acidophillus is NOT damaged by stomach acid.



>Nonfat yogurt is largely inactivated

> by digestive juices before it gets to the target.



That is unsubstantiated nonsense. Bacterial inactivation usually occurs from

extreme cold, or a lack of food. Bacteria thrive in the bowels of volcanoes,

which, depending on your lifestyle, are usually more hostile environments.



>Some apparently gets

> through, but not much, judging from the relative effect of nonfat

> yogurt/whole milk yogurt and cheese.



If you notice such an effect, it is no doubt due to processing AFTER the

culture has grown.



> The variety is because there are at least hundreds of thousands of

> bacterias in the gut, not solely acidolphilus, bulgaricus, bifidus and

> thermophilius.



Regardless, L. acidophillus is by far the most important and most numerous in

the upper GI tract. While I favor bacterial innoculation after antibiotics,

the entire realm is fraught with controversies that seek to state as fact

what is only supposition. People have been happily supplementing with low-fat

carrier food bacterias for millenia! There is NO fat to speak of in kimchee,

and it will provide your GI tract with plenty of helpful bacteria (even if it

kills your fellow office-workers).



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:27:50 EST

--------

The fat makes a difference because the fat molecules are not broken down

until they arrive in the intestine. The culture is protected from the

gastric acid by the undigested fat.  Nonfat yogurt is largely inactivated

by digestive juices before it gets to the target.  Some apparently gets

through, but not much, judging from the relative effect of nonfat

yogurt/whole milk yogurt and cheese.



The variety is because there are at least hundreds of thousands of

bacterias in the gut, not solely acidolphilus, bulgaricus, bifidus and

thermophilius.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:48 GMT Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

writes:

>> I have found yougrt and acidophilous (et al) tablets a relatively

>> ineffective way to build up flora fast.   While the latest research

>I

>> heard found that some of it did survive the trip through the

>stomach, I

>> have found that cultures bound in fat seem to help the flora

>re-establish

>> faster.

>

>It has nothing to do with fat.

>

>>So upon the rare occasions that I have used antibiotics, I go

>> buy very small amounts of several types of smelly cheese, a few

>different

>> brands of whole milk yogurt (including goats milk and ewe milk),

>

>So  which is it: effective or ineffective?

>

>>and some

>> miso.  Then, for good measure, I throw in some fresh fermented

>sauerkraut

>> or kimchee and fresh pickles.

>

>And so you provide lots of lactobacillus to your body, with a fair

>amount of

>its natural 'food'...namely lactose, and a comfortable pH...namely

>that of

>lactic acid.

>

>Paul

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:32:05 -0800

--------

At 01:42 PM 1/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Sarah,

>

>On the chance that it may be helpful, you might consider looking into

>Bifidophilus Flora Force, made by Natures Sunshine Products (NSP).  Having

>lived abroad occasionally, I know of the problems you relate.  Though I have

>not had a recent occasion to personally check the effectiveness of this

>product in an extreme environment, I fully intend to when the occasion

>arises.

>

>So what's it all about - contents:

>     lactobacillicus acidophilus



L. sporogenes is the most stable , does not require refrigeration and is not

contaminated

with unwanted bacteria



richard



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:18:20 -0500

--------

Sarah,



An additional thought on the topic of your comments -



We all know it is easier, though more of a hassle, to prevent health

problems, than to cure them.  Along the line of prevention for bacterial

problems, if you are not aware of the herbs, you might find it helpful to

investigate and gain some experience with Pau d'Arco (Lpacho, Taheebo), Cat's

Claw  (Unda de Gato), and Echinacea.  They are written up in most good

herbals.



I prefer to use herbs in their simplest forms (when effective) i.e. powdered

herbs as capsules or tablets, which are likely the most available, and

certainly the handiest.  There are some herbs which are more effective as

extracts, and I am not one to turn my back on them.  My reservations to all

this, however is that the more processed an herbal product becomes, the

further down the path it goes toward becoming a drug.  I am a sound believer

in the old addage that there's not one drug available that couldn't be better

replaced by some combination of natural therapies, herbs and nutritious

foods.  How's that for a bias?



A similar problem you haven't mentioned is intestinal worms and parasites -

which luckily I have had no personal experience with, though I have two

relatives who have been there.  It was their experience that anthelmintics

(vermicides and vermifuges) are more than adequate to handling the problem.

 Seems the trick here is to know more about the beasites than they know about

you, since you have to not only kill off those present, but also their as yet

unborn progeny.  This requires knowing who they are, and repeating the

treatment a time or two, at appropriate intervals, for the benefit of the

succeeding generations.





Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:48:55 GMT

--------

> My reservations to all

> this, however is that the more processed an herbal product becomes, the

> further down the path it goes toward becoming a drug.



An arbitrary standard in any case. Processing Mahuang or digitalis doesn't

make them 'more' a drug--THEY ARE DRUGS! Swallow some raw, unprocessed

aconite sometime...you'll see what I mean.



>I am a sound believer

> in the old addage that there's not one drug available that couldn't be

better

> replaced by some combination of natural therapies, herbs and nutritious

> foods.  How's that for a bias?



Utter tripe. Drugs generally act rapidly. Natural therapies, herbs and

nutritious foods require an available timeline. So if the world operated on

your bias, there would be a lot more dead people around.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:21:08 GMT

--------

> We all know it is easier, though more of a hassle, to prevent health

> problems, than to cure them.  Along the line of prevention for bacterial

> problems, if you are not aware of the herbs, you might find it helpful to

> investigate and gain some experience with Pau d'Arco (Lpacho, Taheebo),

Cat's

> Claw  (Unda de Gato), and Echinacea.  They are written up in most good

> herbals.



These herbs AREN'T preventatives. They are antibiotic herbs that are

generally inappropriate to consume on a daily basis, for most of the same

reason pharmaceutical antibiotics aren't.



Entrepreneurialism thrives in my absense, I guess.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:24:11 GMT

--------

> It was their experience that anthelmintics

> (vermicides and vermifuges) are more than adequate to handling the problem.



Then your knowledge base is hopelessly inadequate. Chronic worm and microbial

bowel infections are among the most difficult of all cases to treat

effectively, with herbs OR drugs.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:56:17 GMT

--------

> >> L. sporogenes is the most stable , does not require refrigeration and is

not

> >> contaminated

> >> with unwanted bacteria

> >>

> >> richard

> >

> >According to whom? L. acidophilus is highly stable, doesn't require

> >refrigeration, and is in food rarely contaminated with 'unwanted

bacteria.'

> >

> >Paul

> >

> according to a study done by hughes and hiller (1990) microbiological

> characteristics of

> lactobacillus products. (obstet gynecol 75:244-248)

> of the 16 products they studied which claim to contain l. acidophilis only

4

> actually contained any viable L. acidophilis and 2 contained bacterial

> contaminants



They are studying PRODUCTS, not bacteria. You are discussing PRODUCTS, not

bacteria. Even if this study were pertinent to the claim you were making

("most"), which it is not, it is still only half a loaf, since it says

nothing about the bacteria you are making a claim for.



L. acidophilus is KNOWN, PROVEN to be as I said. Your claim is associated

with a study that found that products are unreliable. Duh. When you show the

contrasting study of L. sporogenes products (which doesn't exist because IN

FACT L. acidophilus assays have been done time and time again with health

food store product, and the results contradict hughes and hiller, who were

probably studying mass market acidophilus), then you will have the basis for

such a claim.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant: recovery

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:17:01 -0800

--------

At 07:16 PM 1/19/97 GMT, you wrote:

>> L. sporogenes is the most stable , does not require refrigeration and is not

>> contaminated

>> with unwanted bacteria

>>

>> richard

>

>According to whom? L. acidophilus is highly stable, doesn't require

>refrigeration, and is in food rarely contaminated with 'unwanted bacteria.'

>

>Paul

>

according to a study done by hughes and hiller (1990) microbiological

characteristics of

lactobacillus products. (obstet gynecol 75:244-248)

of the 16 products they studied which claim to contain l. acidophilis only 4

actually contained any viable L. acidophilis and 2 contained bacterial

contaminants



richard





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: green tea and free radicals

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:55:19 -0800

--------

Anita,  You sound like you are very knowledgable.  I have been reading

your posts for some time now and they are very helpful and informative.

Would you tell me what teas one can drink besides green tea (i don't

like the taste, plus i am getting away from caffeine) to get these free

radical scavengers?

Linda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: green tea and free radicals

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:44:09 -0900

--------

At 09:55 PM 1/17/97 -0800, Mike & Linda Shipley wrote:

>Anita,  You sound like you are very knowledgable.  I have been reading

>your posts for some time now and they are very helpful and informative.

>Would you tell me what teas one can drink besides green tea (i don't

>like the taste, plus i am getting away from caffeine) to get these free

>radical scavengers?

>Linda

>

>

Right off the top of my head, I'd say blueberries.  The local natives drank

a tea from the leaves, bark, twigs and berries of several species of

blueberries (Vaccinium spp.).  They didn't know about free radicals but

there are certainly some free radical chasers in these plants.  They also

used crowberries similarly.   I'm sure others on the herb list will have

favorites to tell you as there are many herbs that contain free radical

chasers.  You may even get chased after by those hawkers of pine bark and

grapeseed extract.  They also contain free radical chasers (flavonoids,

OPC's, Pycnogenols, et.al.)

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Antibiotics and mitral valve prolapse

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:43:06 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-16 23:21:09 EST, Bruce wrote:



>In what ways do you mean "don't waste ..."  regarding antibiotics?  Are you

 >saying that antibiotics are in general a waste of time and money?  I have a

 >wife and a daughter who both have mitro valve prolapse and are instructed

to

 >take unusually high doses (6x normal) of amoxicillin prior to a dental

 >cleaning in case some bacteria finds it's way into their system during the

 >cleaning.  Is their a better, safer or more sure method?  I would

appreciate

 >your input or the input of others.



Bruce-



Any routine dental manipulations that result in bleeding (cleaning,

extractions, etc.) can introduce bacteria from the mouth into the bloodstream

(and the human mouth is naturally teaming with bacteria!) In healthy

individuals, this transient bactermia  usually goes unnoticed while being

cleared by the body's natural defenses, although some folks may experience

mild to moderate flu-like symptoms or general malaise. However, individuals

with mitral valve insufficiencies are much more susceptible to bacterial

endocarditis / colonization of the damaged valve by bacteria. These are

serious, potetially life-threatening conditions, and I think it would

carefully weigh all options and alternatives.



I'm not sure about the 6x normal part, however... some antibiotics are

designed to be administered in one or two large doses (6x?), while others are

designed to be administered beginning several days before the dental

procedure and ending several days after.



If your wife and daughter are subjected to this prophylactic antibiotic

therapy only occasionally (perhaps once or twice a year), and if the

antibiotic is well tolerated with no obvious side effects, if it were me, I

would personally rather be safe than sorry.



I know there are many conflicting opinions on the use of antibiotics... and

it is true that antibiotics have been grossly overprescribed by the medical

profession (with dire consequences i.e. the emergence of super-resistant

strains), but IMHO, they do serve a purpose if used wisely, with discretion

and with careful consideration of all the options. After all, penicillin is

essentially a "natural" remedy... man didn't invent it, a fungus did!



Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: fruit juice and kids

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:59:14 -0500

--------

It occurs to me that today's medical experts making any kind of tests using

foods, are most likely unaware of the difference between fresh raw foods or

juices, and those processed by the corporate giants of the food production

chain.  One point in particular being the total lack of enzymes in the

chemical feast served daily to the trusting, unknowing public.



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: fruit juice and kids

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:39 GMT

--------

> It occurs to me that today's medical experts making any kind of tests using

> foods, are most likely unaware of the difference between fresh raw foods or

> juices, and those processed by the corporate giants of the food production

> chain.  One point in particular being the total lack of enzymes in the

> chemical feast served daily to the trusting, unknowing public.

>

> Chuck



Exogenous enzymes (those in foods), and the whole hysteria over them, are NOT

of importance in digestion. In fact, this topic produces entrepreneurial

indigestion frequently.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Lobelia and Cypripedium

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:05:53 +0000

--------

> Lobelia does such a perfect job in this one is hard pressed to find an equal

> substitute but there are many good antispasmodics that might be used as

> well.  Cypripedium pub. (Ladies slipper) and Scutellaria (Skullcap) might be



Ethical Herb Use Warning



Cypripediums are all but gone from the wild, and legally endangered

and protected in most places. This one is much worse off than

Goldenseal or Echinacea. Do not use it!



Michael Moore says (somewhere in his enormous website) that if you

use this plant you will re-incarnated as a motion detector in the

front of K-Mart!







Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



Wildcrafting is Stewardship





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant :recovery

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:19:28 +0100

--------

Karen,



you wrote:



>It used to take several weeks to re-establish flora.  With this >regimine

it takes a few days.



What would be your *criteria* for establishing the return of flora to

"normal" "acceptable" levels?  I mean, how would you judge that?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: antibiotic rant :recovery

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:43:34 EST

--------

Eric-



After antibiotics my intestinal system is plagued by gas, cramping and

other signs of distress.  Previously this lasted for several weeks until,

with the help of yogurt, and acidophilous, the symptoms went away.

Certain "big gun" antibiotics were worse than others.



With the mixed cheese, normal digestion is established in a week or

under.



My reading is very pragmatic:  if the gut works, the level is okay.  If

I'm  plagued with distress, it isn't. Beyond that I require no

measurements.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:19:28 +0100 Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

writes:

>Karen,

>

>you wrote:

>

>>It used to take several weeks to re-establish flora.  With this

>>regimine

>it takes a few days.

>

>What would be your *criteria* for establishing the return of flora to

>"normal" "acceptable" levels?  I mean, how would you judge that?

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Malaria, viruses et.al. was Re: This darn influenza!!!

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:44:10 -0900

--------

At 04:43 AM 1/18/97 -0500, Nancy Hodinka wrote:

>Paul,

>

>Could you please explain the difference between a cold-type cold and a

>hot-type cold?

>

>Also, regarding the use of cayenne... could it be that most seasonal

>respiratory illnesses (colds, flu, grippe, whatever) are caused by viruses

>(not toxins); viruses consist of a nucleic acid core and protein coat;

>proteins are denatured at elevated temperatures (fever, thermogenic herbs); a

>denatured protein coat prevents the virus from attaching to other cells,

>interrupting vial replication and halting the disease. An oversimplification,

>perhaps, but from a microbiologist's perspective, it makes sense to me!

>

>Any thoughts?

>Nancy

>

>

I recently heard something interesting about a Malaria vaccine.  It seems

that they have made a vaccine that is a bio-engineered substance that

attaches itself to a hepatitis B virus and it sneaks past the normal

barriers to immunize the body against Malaria.  I wish I could describe it

better, I lost the article.  I believe it was in Popular Science magazine.

It sounds like a Trojan horse approach.  It is claimed to be more than 50%

effective in first trials.  I wonder how they get people to volunteer to be

exposed to Malaria to test this stuff?  Not my idea of a fun time.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: "Ms. Joanna Webb" <jcwebb@COASTALNET.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:55:07 -0500

--------

Could anyone give me information for the best treatment for mild burns?



Thanks,



Joanna





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: krystalpaw@EARTHLINK.NET

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:03:09 -0800

--------

I burned myself badly and all I used was Colloidal Silver and a Colloidal

Silver & Aloa cream.



Worked Great.



Beverley



At 04:55 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Could anyone give me information for the best treatment for mild burns?

>

>Thanks,

>

>Joanna

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: fertility

From: Vickie Skillman <MONGO520@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:25:27 -0500

--------

hi everyone.  i was wondering if there are any herbs out there which would

increase fertility or optimize chances for becoming pregnant...





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: fertility

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:16:45 EST

--------

Hi Vickie:



I've read and heard that False Unicorn can help with infertility and

corrects reproductive organs of both sexes.  It also aids during

pregnancy, prevents miscarriage and alkalizes urine.  Improves muscle

tone/contractions, influences the entire hormonal system.



I think red raspberry leaves help in this area too and during pregnancy

for easier childbirth.  We give them to our dogs during their entire

pregnancy and have always had good luck.  I take them during menstruation

for pain and I've heard that other use them for morning sickness.



Lynette





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: fertility

From: "Lori A. Campbell" <lcampbel@MAIL.COIN.MISSOURI.EDU>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:07:14 -0600

--------

On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Vickie Skillman wrote:



> hi everyone.  i was wondering if there are any herbs out there which would

> increase fertility or optimize chances for becoming pregnant...

>

False Unicorn Root is supposed to help.



Here's some recommendations from "Herbal Healing for Women" by Rosemary

Gladstar:



1.  Take two capsules of dong quai three times a day except during

    menstruation.



2.  Take Liquid Floradix iron with Herbs regularly, following the dosage

    recommendations on the bottle.



3.  Take Fertility Tonic, in capsule or tonic form, daily.  Take capsules

    at dose of two, three times a day.  If using tincture, take

    one-fourth teaspoon three times a day:



     Fertility Tonic



4 parts rehmania

1 part astragalus root

1 part dong quai root

2 parts false unicorn root

3 parts wild yam root

1 part vitex berries



     Female Fertility Tea



3 parts wild yam root

2 parts licorice root

4 parts sassafras bark of root

1 part vitex (chaste berry)

1/2 part dong quai root

a pinch of stevia

1 part ginger root

1 part cinnamon bark

1/2 part false unicorn root

1/4 part orange peel



   Use four to six tablespoons of the herb mixture per quart of water.

Add the herbs to cold water and bring to a slow simmer over low heat.

Keep pot tightly covered.  Simmer gently for 20 minutes.  Remove from

heat and allow to infuse for another 20 minutes.  Strain.  Drink

three to four cups daily.



Cascade's Fertility Formula



1 dram dong quai tincture

2 drams squaw vine tincture

2 drams wild yam tincture

1 dram ginseng tincture

1 dram ho-shou-wu (polyganum multiforum) tincture

1 dram dandelion leaf/root tincture



Take 30 drops of the mixture twice daily, before meals, immediately

following cessation of menstrual flow, and continuing until next period.

Discontinue during menses and repeat cycle for up to four months.  If

pregnancy occurs discontinue.



Also:



1.  Drink ginseng tea or take ginseng capsules regularly.



2.  Take sitz baths several times a week for several months.



3.  Make use of acupuncture.  It is very effective for removing

    stagnation and energy blocks and has been used successfully for

    problems of infertility.



4.  Try homeopathic remedies.  Consult a homeopathic physician.



Don't know where you get some of these ingredients.



Lori





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: fertility

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:18 GMT

--------

> On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Vickie Skillman wrote:

>

> > hi everyone.  i was wondering if there are any herbs out there which

would

> > increase fertility or optimize chances for becoming pregnant...

> >

> False Unicorn Root is supposed to help.



Etc.



Top of the list? __DIAGNOSIS__! Shooting in the dark puts holes in your

wallet, and can be dangerous to your health.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: fertility

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:37:57 GMT

--------

> If any of what this guy said was true, nutrition i.e. minerals and trace

> elements were part of the situations.



Sheep don't necessarily get good diets and certainly aren't people. One 90

year old Yang constitution guy who has the spirit of a whoremonger doesn't

count for nothing, either.



> Most natural healers understand that adequate nutrition is the core of good

> health, and some of them say that nature is self protective.  If conditions

> are not proper for natural process to occur, then they don't occur.



Which ignores a simple issue called pathology. Go to places in the U.S. that

feed and drink off high mineral land. They have the same share of illness as

anyone else. The world is vastly more complicated than this health food store

blather lets on.



> Take for example an apple with a worm in it.  Cut the apple in halves by

> lining a knife up so it cuts vertically through both the core and place on

> the skin where the worm entered the apple.  You will see on the inside,

that

> the worm bored straight into the core of the apple and destroyed the seeds.



That is because worms need protein.



>  The naturalist says this is because the tree on which the apple grew was

> sick.  When apple trees are properly taken care of, few if any apples get

> worms in them - only sick trees need to be sprayed with insecticides to

> produce a crop.  Healthy trees don't need to be sprayed.



Every gardener knows that it is the healthy plants that get eaten by bugs

ESPECIALLY. Don't you think bugs have tastebuds? Do you really think they

only scavenge?



People are not trees. The factors that people face in their health are vastly

larger than trees, bugs, or Yang-constituted whoremongers.



> Couples having no children, though they are doing what normally makes

babies,

> can prove to themselves whether or not the lack of natural nutrition has

> something to do with it.



Or, they can go to the ag store and get themselves a His & Hers saltlick for

their headboards, eh?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: "Dr.John M. Kosloski" <Drjkbz@DATAFLO.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:36:45 -0600

--------

Hi there everyone!



Glad to have found you!



I have three questions for you!



1) Can anyone give me the mechanics of bilberry and diabetes/diabetes

retinopathy if there are any.



2) Out side of "bilberry" are there any other herbal nutritional

supplements, etc... that someone can recommend for this condition?



3) Has anyone heard of this new herbal weight loss program called: slim

phase?



Thanks!

Barb @ Diagnostic & Therapeutic Rehab Center





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:05:52 +0000

--------

> 1) Can anyone give me the mechanics of bilberry and diabetes/diabetes

> retinopathy if there are any.

>



Check out the new Herbal Hall



http://www.herb.com/



go to herbal hall, features, and then check out bilberry hill.



Lots of vaccinium info, though perhaps not what specifically what you

are looking for. Perhaps so. Definately worth the visit.

Howie Brounstein



howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:16:45 EST

--------

Hi Barb:



I have used bilberry in tincture form for blood sugar problems when I was

out of control.



today I use Pau D'arco mostly for diabetes and have had good luck in

staying in control.  In fact, 2 more pounds to go before I'm off all

prescription meds for diabetes.



I have some info on Pau D'arco on studies being done in the US if you're

interested, just let me know.



Lynette





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:28 GMT

--------

> I have some info on Pau D'arco on studies being done in the US if you're

> interested, just let me know.

>

> Lynette



Strip off the commercial information and POST IT. Or don't bring it up. You

aren't allowed to invite email IF you sell products or plants  you are

talking about.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:27:57 EST

--------

I do not sell products nor plants  I am merely a pau d'arco consumer

giving a testimonial.  This is only an info sheet received on the studies

and benefits of pau d'arco that I wanted to share via private email.  It

was one whole page that I scanned and didn't want to clog up everyone's

mail if they weren't interested.  It does not contain any advertising for

a particular store or solicit any brand names on it whatsoever. Perhaps I

should not be on this post  as I thought it was a place to share through

testimonials and learn from others knowledge and experiences with various

herb and combinations.



Lynette





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:17:04 GMT

--------

> I do not sell products nor plants  I am merely a pau d'arco consumer

> giving a testimonial.  This is only an info sheet received on the studies

> and benefits of pau d'arco that I wanted to share via private email.  It

> was one whole page that I scanned and didn't want to clog up everyone's

> mail if they weren't interested.  It does not contain any advertising for

> a particular store or solicit any brand names on it whatsoever. Perhaps I

> should not be on this post  as I thought it was a place to share through

> testimonials and learn from others knowledge and experiences with various

> herb and combinations.

>

> Lynette



"Don't cry for me Herblistina! The truth is I never meant to...sell Pau

d'Arco---I was just trying...to be of service!"



Evita fever strikes the Herblist! Don't advertise here, don't spread

commercial information, INCLUDING entrepreneurial claim-sheets, and if you

have REAL information, POST IT. "One whole page" is about 2K, far below the

usual 10K limit for posted information.



The list is really not about testimonials, btw. Alt.folklore.herbs is a much

better place for that. This is really supposed to be a list to discuss the

_verifiable_ knowledge of plant healing. Those of us who heal

'professionally' are only too aware that every plant being sold heals every

illness in existence, except, apparently, the ones our clients had.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:39:40 EST

--------

Paul:



Here is the scan I did on the Pau D'arco.............enjoy.

Kindly forgive any spelling errors as the scanning program isn't that

great at transcribing copy that has lost so much resolution.



Lynette

                       1000 Year Old Inca Cure



                               PAU D'ARCO



     A 'miracle' cure used by the Inca Indians 1000 years ago, has now

come to light. The cure, said to apply to certain types of cancer, among

other ailments, comes from the bark of the Tahebuia tree found only high

in the Andes and is still used by the Callaway tribe, descendant:, of the

Inca medicine men. This news was released by Dr. Paulo Martin, a medical

researcher for the Brazilian government.



     "The Callaways use "taheebo" (the Indian name for the tree) to treat

natives in Peru and Bolivia," Dr. Martin said. And though this may sound

like another "pipedream", two physicians have already used the extract to

cure (yes, cure) Leukemia. They were Drs. Theodore Meyer of the National

University in Argentina and Pratz Ruiz, a general practitioner, in

Concepcion, a city in Tucuman province.



     Along with Dr. Waiter Accorsi, a Brazilian botanist, they developed

an extract which they have experimented with on a variety of ailments

with varying degrees of success.  Dr, Meyer says the herb is "analgesic,

sedative, de-congestant diuretic and hypotensive It HEALS WOUNDS and

COMBATS INFECTION, RESTORES APPETITE, and is a GENERAL. Such properties

justify its being prescribed for LEUKEMIA, CANCER, DIABETES, ANEMIA

GASTRITIS, GASTRICE and DUODENAL ULCERS and RHEUMATISM.  He further says

that it has "no contraindications or incompatibilities, It is non-toxic."

The concentrate is distributed free to cancer patients in Argentina.



     While it seems too good to be true, John Heinerman, a medical

anthropologist who specializes in studying herbal medicines says, "It

sums to have earned itself considerable merit in the successful treatment

of most forms of cancer, diabetes, and certain other debilitating

diseases.... As the clinical data on the use of taheebo in medicine is

accumulated, this item of the Callaway pharmacopoeia begins to look more

and more like the veritable 'treasure of the Incas."  It has been curing

in short order (mostly one month or less) a long list of diseases, Hard

as it may be to believe these include (in alphabetical order):

ANEMIA ARTERIOSCLEROSIS, ASTHEMA, BRONCHITIS,CANCER of all types,

COLITIS, CRYSTITIS, DIABETES, ECZEMA EXTERNAL SORES of any kind, even old

ones, GASTRITlS, GONORRHEA and HEMORRHAGES. Also,

HODGKIN'S DISEASE, INFLAMMATIONS of the GENITAL SYSTEM. LEUKEMIA

LEUKORRHEA LUPUS, OSTEOMYE-

LITIS, PARALYSIS of the eyelids PARKINSON'S DISEASE, POLYPS (intertinal

and vesical), PROSTATIS and PSORIASIS.  Also, RHEUMATISM, RINGWORM,

SCABIES, SKIN DISEASES in

general,SYPHILIS and SEQUELS, ULCERATIONS OF THE INTESTINES, ULCER

(gastric and duodenal) and

VERICOSE ULCERS.



     The research in Brazil was funded by the United States government

and part of its findings concluded. "We isolated a compound we called

quechua from the taheebo, and found it to

be a powerful anti-biotic with virus-killing properties." American herbal

medicine experts Dr. James Duke of the National Institute of Health and

Dr. Norman Farnsworth of the University of Illinois confirmed these

findings, and added, "Taheebo undoubtedly contains a substance found to

be highly effective against cancer.



     Argentinean doctors continue to use quechua on patients. While the

substance can be poisonous, it is not deadly unless used in massive

doses, explained Dr. Carlos Matos of Argentina's National Medical School

in Buena Aires. We have gotten satisfactory results over the past year,"

he said, "and despite American fears, quechua appears to be no more toxic

than too much aspirin or caffeine.  Recently, new uses have been found

for the taheebo,

which may allow thousands of allergic or chemically sensitive people to

make use of its 'miracle' qualities Jeffrey Anderson, a Mill Valley

California physician, treated a woman with a difficult yeast infection,

"Two hours after using the tea as a douche, the vaginal yeast infection

cleared up nicely," he said. Those who use the tea report that sometimes

the symptoms become worse initially, These reactions, however, only last

a short time. One excited patient gave the following report: "I had been

on Nystatin for a year and still hadn't been able to get near dairy

products. Last night I binged on a 1/2 gallon of natural ice cream with

no reaction!"



     The following is a list of the ailments that the doctors at the

Municipal Hospital in San Paulo found that PAU D'ARCO helped:

ANEMIA,ARTERIOSCLEROSIS,ASTHMA,BLOOD BUILDER,BRONCHITlS CANCER All types

COLITIS,CYSTITIS,DIABETES, ECZEMA,EXTERNAL SORES EYELIDS (paralysis),

GASTRITIS, HEMORRHAGES, HERNIAS,INFECTIOUS DISEASES,INFLAMMATION OF

GENITALS,LEUKEMIA,LIVER AILMENTS,LUPUS,NEPHRITIS,OSTEOMYELITIS,PAIN

RELIEVER,PARKINSONS DISEASE,PSORIASIS,PYORRHEA,

RHEUMATISM,RING WORM,SKIN DISEASES,ULCERS,VARICOSE VEINS,WOUNDS.



     There are now people in the United States who are claiming wonderful

results with various illnesses. The following is an updated list of

ailments Pau D'Arco, is successfully treating in the United Stated in

addition to the previous list:

AIDS,ANEURYSM,ANTIBIOTIC,ARTHRITIS,CANDIDA

ALBICANS,FISTULAS,FUNGI,HERPES,HODGKIN'S DISEASE,

LEUKORRHEA,LYMPHOPENIA,MULTIPLE

SCLEROSIS,POLYPS,PROSTATITIS,SCABIES,SINUSITIS,SPLEEN INFECTIONS VENEREAL

DISEASES.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: Donna Geibel <AIMEB@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:56:33 -0500

--------

howie brounstein wrote about a "herbal hall" to find out information on

bilberry.  what is herbal hall and how do you go to it?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: NEW TO THE LIST....GLAD TO BE HERE!

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:32:20 -0800

--------

At 03:56 PM 1/22/97 -0500, you wrote:

>howie brounstein wrote about a "herbal hall" to find out information on

>bilberry.  what is herbal hall and how do you go to it?





http://www.herb.com/herbal.htm    is the path you're looking for.



Be well,



>

>

Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: mild burns

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:01:58 +0100

--------

Joanna,



One possibility:



Every household should have a few pots of aloe vera cactus sitting around

for just this type of emergency. Even if you're in a frigid zone (they do

not like frost), you can keep it inside in a window during the winter and

put it outside in the summer. Again I speak from personal experience. The

gel from the leaves of this cactus plant *really* works. Unfortunately this

may not be available to you at the moment. In that case check out one of

the other posts you are bound to receive with different advice on the same

subject. I have zero experience with store bought lotions, cremes or

pomades claiming a certain percentage content of aloe vera.



At 16:55 18/01/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Could anyone give me information for the best treatment for mild burns?

>

>Thanks,

>

>Joanna

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: mild burns

From: Richard Morgan <Audio001@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:10:23 -0500

--------

Dear Joanna,

 Aloe is very good to cool and take the heat out. As soon as the healing

starts a cream containing Vitamin A and E will help minamize scaring.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: mild burns

From: Cindy Lee <cindylee@MINDSPRING.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:35:35 -0500

--------

At 06:10 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Dear Joanna,

> Aloe is very good to cool and take the heat out. As soon as the healing

>starts a cream containing Vitamin A and E will help minamize scaring.



Aloe Vera also minimizes scaring.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: mild burns

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:18:04 -0800

--------

Dear Joanna,

Try some Aloe Vera get or juice.  It is wonderful for stopping the hurt.

Linda





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: mild burns

From: Mary Starck <mstarck@CE1.AF.PUBLIC.LIB.GA.US>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:53:19 -0500

--------

One other suggestion-calendula lotion, saturating gauze and wrapping the

burn, keeping the gauze clean and moistened with the lotion.  Something

my sister (an RN) taught me when one of her children had a bad burn, and

it really worked!  New skin grew under the moistened gauze.  I use

calendula cream on very mild burns, after an initial coating of aloe, and

it seems to help the skin heal well too.



Mary Starck



On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Eric Feingold wrote:



> Joanna,

>

> One possibility:

>

> Every household should have a few pots of aloe vera cactus sitting around

> for just this type of emergency. Even if you're in a frigid zone (they do

> not like frost), you can keep it inside in a window during the winter and

> put it outside in the summer. Again I speak from personal experience. The

> gel from the leaves of this cactus plant *really* works. Unfortunately this

> may not be available to you at the moment. In that case check out one of

> the other posts you are bound to receive with different advice on the same

> subject. I have zero experience with store bought lotions, cremes or

> pomades claiming a certain percentage content of aloe vera.

>

> At 16:55 18/01/97 -0500, you wrote:

> >Could anyone give me information for the best treatment for mild burns?

> >

> >Thanks,

> >

> >Joanna

> >

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: mild burns

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:02:27 -0900

--------

At 07:53 AM 1/20/97 -0500, Mary Starck wrote:

>One other suggestion-calendula lotion, saturating gauze and wrapping the

>burn, keeping the gauze clean and moistened with the lotion.  Something

>my sister (an RN) taught me when one of her children had a bad burn, and

>it really worked!  New skin grew under the moistened gauze.  I use

>calendula cream on very mild burns, after an initial coating of aloe, and

>it seems to help the skin heal well too.

>

>

One more suggestion.  When I was camping, I used Plantain (Plantago spp.) on

a minor burn.  It helped the pain and healed it quickly.  I just crushed a

leaf and taped it to the burn.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Eczema scarring

From: Karen Guthrie <guthriek@ROGUEWAVE.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:35:36 -0800

--------

Hello all,



This is my first post - I've been lurking for a month or two now.  I am

a total novice in the area of herbs, but have been reading with interest and

filing away lots of useful information thanks to all of you - I am completely new to

this form of discussion, so forgive me in advance for any social blunders...



I was wondering if anyone out there knew how to minimize the pitting,

redness, and scarring from eczema.  I am an adult onset sufferer and have

some scarring on my face.



Thanks in advance for any advice!



Karen



Karen Guthrie

Guthriek@Roguewave.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Eczema scarring

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:25:03 EST

--------

Hi Karen:



I know that chickweed externally applied can help with eczema but I'm not

sure about the scarring.  Chickweed is good taken internally for eating

cellulite and is also a good cholesterol cleaner.



Lynette





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Eczema scarring

From: Karen Guthrie <guthriek@ROGUEWAVE.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:33:50 -0800

--------

Thank you Lynette.



I know that chickweed externally applied can help with eczema



I plead ignorance here....  How is it applied?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Eczema scarring

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:55:33 EST

--------

Hi Karen:



I would suggest opening a capsule or two as if making tea, into hot water

and allowing to cool to lukewarm and bathing the affected area freely.



My husband often opens herb caps to makes teas for these such things.  He

suffers from thrush/candidas and uses Pau D'arco caps. He takes 4 caps

3X's a day plus opens 2 caps 3Xs a day to bathe his throat with the herb

by making a tea.  Of course it tastes awful but a bit of stevia can solve

that, he says.



Another herb he loves is passion flower which he purchases in bulk form

and uses a tea ball for steeping.  It is a wonderful calming type herb

which is great for headache or a sedative and even high blood pressure.

It tastes okay alone and many friends have tried it and then went out and

got some too.



Lynette





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Eczema scarring

From: "Lynette R. Myers" <themyers220@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:50:38 EST

--------

Karen, I just thought of something else.  Pau D'arco comes in lotion form

too and has been used to treat eczema and removes dead skin cells.  This

may help with the scarring.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:55:54 -0600

--------

 The very minute I am burned, I break off a piece of aloe vera and rub the

"goo" onto the burned skin.  works great for me, even on sunburns.  keep

rubbing it on four or five times a day.  For a sunburn, you can also take a

bath with about one or two cups of vinegar in your water to take the sting out.

-Valerie

>At 04:55 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>Could anyone give me information for the best treatment for mild burns?

>>

>>Thanks,

>>

>>Joanna

>>

>>

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Retnopathy and Diabetes

From: Denice Gherardini <DDenice@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 23:24:38 -0500

--------

I saw your post to herb file "READ THIS". I would to share these 3 stories

and as a doctor, you can aurthorize them. They are all backed by medical

records!!!

I will privately E-mail you names and numbers of doctors, if you would like.

DDenice@aol.com



I will not mention any product name or price, as I am not sure if I can (only

second day, thank god I found this list). IF I can let me know!! You won't be

sorry.



I was introduced to "Brand A" which is a pygnogenol by my girlfriend whose

mama has had diabetes for 25 years, emphazemia, asthma, arthritis. She had to

have ANOTHER lazer surgery due to retinopathy, she went for the surgery,

after taking "Brand A" for only 3 weeks and DID NOT need the surgery, her Dr.

took the information on it! Her eye checks went from every month to every six

months  (no lazers needed since taking it) and she read her 1st book in 20

YEARS!!!  She goes to hospital every week for draw and testing. The Doctors

office literally called her and said you have to come into the office because

this test results have to be wrong. THEY WEREN'T!!! She also (prior to Brand

A) almost had to have foot amputated after 9 month strugggle with papercut

type sore on her big toe. Post "Brand A" she stepped on a box of staples and

pout a 7mm hole in her heel. It only took 6 weeks (maybe less but I don't

want to exagerate (sppeling?) to close after fifth week, told her to double

dose  Brand A, she did, gone in less than 7days!

Also my eyedoctor took a case after my exam becuase my stigmatism went from

severe to slight and eyes went from-825 to -625 (first improvement in 25

years)



I have alot more about MS, DOS, ANEMIA, RA, HBP, etc. that can also be backed

by medical redocrds, but you only inquired about diabetes.



HERE IS THE LIST OF THINGS AND I AM ADDING TO IT ALL THE TIME!

Strengthens capillaries                         Enhances Immune System

Helps Diabetes                                      Strengthens Arteries and Veins

Reduces Retinopathy                             Reduces Eczema and Psorasis

Reduces PMS and Menopause               Improves joint flexibility

Improves Circulation                                  Improves cell collagen and elactisity

Reduces Vericous Veins                  HELPS MS ALOT!!!

Fights Inflammation                                   Helps Alzheimers

Lowers Cholesterol                                    Reduces Gout

Lowers Blood Pressure                         Reduces Muscles Cramps

Helps Asthma and Broncitis                      Reduces SNORING

Reduces Wrinkles                                      Hepls reduce and prevent sports injuries

Reduces Arthritic Pain Dramatically     Reduces Capillary Fragility

Prevents Ulcer Formation                        Repairs Atherosclerosis

Subdues Allergic Reactions                      Lowers Histamine levels

Helps Cataracts and Glaucoma            Repairs Artery Linings

Reduces Stress and Depression           Reduces /relieves headaches and migranes

Promotes faster healing                       Reduces risk of helps Parkinsons

Reduces Risk of Stroke                        Increases energy levels

PENETRATES BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER!!!       Helps relieve carpel tunnel syndrome

Helps reduce risk of cancer                     Helps relieve and reduce lupus

Encreases sex drive and stamina Relieves Insomnia

Helps Crones Disease



ANYWAY, what makes this product unique is the ingrdients and delivery system.



It is taken in what is called an Isotonic state. As we get older our body is

not able to breakdown and utilize vitamins and minerals like it use to so

taking them in the Isotnic state is ideal!!!!  1st thing in the morning take

2-oz of water and a small cap of IT and drink, it tastes like wildberrys.

Because your taken it in the Isontic or liquid state it immediate goes to the

small intestine and is distributed immediately. It not only works to stop the

damage that is now occuring, but as you can see from my testimonals, it

reverses damages which has already occured.



All IT consists of is: 25 mg each of the following; PineBark Extract, Red

Wine Extract, Bilberry Extract, Grape Seed  Extract and bioflavoniods. If you

research the market you will find all other pycnogelols contain one of two of

these in a smaller amount and are in the pill form.  This is a vegetarian

product and contains NO wheat, soy, yeast, glutens, starch, salt,

preservatives, milk or artifical flavors or colors.



I am in the business of giving INFOMATION on pycnogenols because of the way

they have changed the quality of LIFE for the people I love.



Whether you buy Brand A, B or C makes no difference to me HONESTLY, but

please look into this. It is soooo worth it!



Sorry this was so long, but again, I think its worth it, besides I never know

when to shut-up anyway!!

.

Thank You for your time,

Denice Gherardini

Arlington Heights, IL

DDenice@aol.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Retnopathy and Diabetes

From: Robert Kelly <rekelly@EPIX.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:40:57 -0500

--------

At 11:24 PM 1/18/97, Denice Gherardini wrote:



>I am in the business of giving INFOMATION on pycnogenols because of the way

>they have changed the quality of LIFE for the people I love.

>

The key phrase. Your commercial posts are NOT allowed in this forum. Please

refrain from using this list for your commercial purposes.



Bob Kelly





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Retnopathy and Diabetes

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:07:03 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-19 07:53:42 EST, you write:



<< I will privately E-mail you names and numbers of doctors, if you would

like.

 DDenice@aol.com



 I will not mention any product name or price, as I am not sure if I can

(only

 second day, thank god I found this list). IF I can let me know!! You won't

be

 sorry.

  >>



Since Paul is away for the weekend ( and will surely post a message about

this when he returns) I will remind you that this list does not advocate

advertising or commercial use of the list subscribers.  To try to put it

nicely:  "We are non-commercial--strictly educational and intellectual".

 That sounds like we have some sense every once in a while!!   :)  There are

people on this list that own health food establishments, but they do not post

commercial messages on this list.  Please refrain from doing so.  We discuss

herbs but do not sell them to each other!  Information and discussion are

welcome; selling is not!



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Bilberry Info.

From: Denice Gherardini <DDenice@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:30:04 -0500

--------

DON'T SHOOT its short I swear.



I do reseach on alternative medicines and a number of different diseases, MY

infomation is FREE!!! You do not have to purchase my products or in my

opinion I would a FRAUD to make money off of someone elses search for an

answer. Please feel free to E-Mail anytime you need something and if I don't

know I'll say so!



The most important thing was left out of last post and thats WHY!!! does it

work.

Doc, you can back me up on this one. The is capillaries and arteries are

basically vascular, and in retinopathy they are hemmoraging behind the eyes

(its an insulin thing). Vitamins E and C are recommended  for disbetes to

increase circulation, oxgenates th blood and strengthens connective tissues

 (vascular, cartovascular etc. ) and becuase Pycnogenols are 50x more

powerful than E and 20X more than Vitamin C they are ideal!!

Hey doc, if this needs to be said better feel free!

ONTO THE BILBERRY:

Bilberry Extract

Derived from leaves and berrylike fruit of a common European shrubsimilar to

the blueberry. Scientific studies confirm a positive effecton vision.

Bilberry may prevent acute glaucoma attacks or play a rolein the treatment of

chronic glaucoma. It may also play a role in relieving menstrual problems;

studies have found it helps to relax

smooth muscleslike those found in the uterine wall. Bilberry is nontoxic.



At your service,

Denice





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Bilberry Info.

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:13 GMT

--------

> DON'T SHOOT its short I swear.

>

> I do reseach on alternative medicines and a number of different diseases,

MY

> infomation is FREE!!! You do not have to purchase my products or in my

> opinion I would a FRAUD to make money off of someone elses search for an

> answer. Please feel free to E-Mail anytime you need something and if I

don't

> know I'll say so!



You are not allowed to promote your products here. Strip your posts of all

product information and say NOTHING about selling the plants you post about.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Teeth, hearts and antibiotics

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:29:42 GMT

--------

> Because of the TCI, I also am on prescription diuretics to reduce the

> resulting edema. I'd prefer to take herbal diuretics, but read somewhere

> that they are not appropriate/strong enough for heart-related edema. Any

> comments?



This kind of comment by MD's is always surprising since they have NEVER made

a study of the subject.



So...it is bunk.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Teeth, hearts and antibiotics

From: Evo & Caryl <emarcon@TALLSHIPS.ISTAR.CA>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:51:17 -0800

--------

I've been most interested in this discussion because I also have to take

pre-dental work antibiotics, but for TCI (tricuspid insufficiency) which

resulted after having a heart tumor removed seven years ago. I'm

especially hesitant to take antibiotics after having an allergic

reaction to one 18 months ago.

Because of the TCI, I also am on prescription diuretics to reduce the

resulting edema. I'd prefer to take herbal diuretics, but read somewhere

that they are not appropriate/strong enough for heart-related edema. Any

comments?

I've just started a natural healing certification course, and really

appreciate the info I'm learning from all of you.

In health, naturally,

Caryl





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Teeth, hearts and antibiotics

From: "Carroll B. Lipscomb" <lipco@ATL.MINDSPRING.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:46:50 -0500

--------

At 03:51 PM 1/19/97 -0800, you wrote:

>I've been most interested in this discussion because I also have to take

>pre-dental work antibiotics, but for TCI (tricuspid insufficiency) which

>resulted after having a heart tumor removed seven years ago. I'm

>especially hesitant to take antibiotics after having an allergic

>reaction to one 18 months ago.

>Because of the TCI, I also am on prescription diuretics to reduce the

>resulting edema. I'd prefer to take herbal diuretics, but read somewhere

>that they are not appropriate/strong enough for heart-related edema. Any

>comments?

>I've just started a natural healing certification course, and really

>appreciate the info I'm learning from all of you.

>In health, naturally,

>Caryl

> Caryl, I would like to know more about the natural healing certification

course you are taking. I did not such a course was available. Where? Thanks.

Carroll Lipscomb

Lipscomb & Company

Marketing-Advertising-Public Relations

Atlanta, GA /(770-988-0850)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Teeth, hearts and antibiotics

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:02:24 -0900

--------

>>Because of the TCI, I also am on prescription diuretics to reduce the

>>resulting edema. I'd prefer to take herbal diuretics, but read somewhere

>>that they are not appropriate/strong enough for heart-related edema. Any

>>comments?

>>I've just started a natural healing certification course, and really

>>appreciate the info I'm learning from all of you.



Just a note.  I remember reading a letter I discovered on some microfilm

when doing some genealogical research.  It was a letter from an MD early in

the 19th century.  He described using the ashes of grapvine in wine to

eliminate abdominal edema (dropsy).  The patient had undergone surgery to

relieve the pressure but still had bloated until her abdomen was so big they

were afraid to move her for fear of bursting her abdomen. (that's alot of

water) Some of the best physicians in the country had given up on her.

Given the simple remedy she began immediately to improve and within 30 days

was completely normal.  I give you this information not as a remedy for you

but as an example of the power of herbal remedies.  The case was reviewed by

the staff of a distinguished New York medical school and they were all

astonished.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Digest?

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:30:02 GMT

--------

> I have lots of info on the different herbs and their benefits.  Please send

> me a mailing address and I'll be happy to send it to you. Susan



You are not allowed to make such solicitations on this list. Go elsewhere

with your home business.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Digest?

From: SCANMANOO7@AOL.COM

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:15:50 -0500

--------

im new at this and looking for a chart to show what the different kinds of

herbs can do,to learn about them,,, can aneyone help me?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Digest?

From: Susan bendixen <Susipnr@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:54:10 -0500

--------

I have lots of info on the different herbs and their benefits.  Please send

me a mailing address and I'll be happy to send it to you. Susan





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: getting pregnant

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:39:24 +0100

--------

On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Vickie Skillman wrote:



> hi everyone.  i was wondering if there are any herbs out there which would

> increase fertility or optimize chances for becoming pregnant...

>

Well it falls to me to say this, but everybody has avoided the obvious

method, that is sex. This sometimes works.

Couldn't resist the humor there but seriously though, (your post didn't

mention much information other than looking for herbs) paying special

attention to the indicators of fertility like body temperature, mucous

method etc. (And this from a man. Me.) We all took for granted that these

had already been carefully tried but who knows. According to what I read,

Vitamin E is known to help with sperm count and mobility on the male side.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Green tea

From: Geoff & Mary Orr <gorr@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:43:50 -0500

--------

I check out the green tea web page mentioned in an earlier post.



If the position that green tea lowers blood sugar level is correct, would

green tea be detrimental for those with hypoglycemia?





Geoff and Mary Orr

gorr@ix.netcom.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Green tea

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:32:48 -0900

--------

At 07:43 AM 1/19/97 -0500, Geoff & Mary Orr wrote:

>I check out the green tea web page mentioned in an earlier post.

>

>If the position that green tea lowers blood sugar level is correct, would

>green tea be detrimental for those with hypoglycemia?

>

>

>Geoff and Mary Orr

>gorr@ix.netcom.com

>

>

Anything with caffeine would be detrimental to a hypoglycaemic.  They

already have a stressed adrenal and digestive system.  There is no need to

add to the problem.  Also caffeine induces adrenaline which uses up blood

sugar.  Big no-no for somone who suffers from this condition.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Child's cold..  Hot? Cold?

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:36:43 GMT

--------

>    My 2 1/2 year old has a nasty cold.

>         1st Symptoms: stuffy nose, cough, whiney

>           Then: fever (103), flushed face, nose runny, mucus in right eye,

> lethargic, hands shaky, no appetite



Probably a Cold-type cold. The fever is his Defense Qi fighting the Cold.



>    Treated with: acidopholus, echinacea and homepathic cough syrup, vitamin

C

>                 (gave children's motrin last night for his comfort, and

mine

> I                 suppose)

>

> My question is what now?  Should I wrap him up to sweat it out?  Is this a

> cold or hot cold?



Don't sweat a person in fever, especially if the child is sweating already!



> Thanks for any quick replies!

> Krista



Treating a young child is often a case where homeopathic ___single-remedy___

therapy using a home kit and guide is the most satisfying course of action.

Young children can't take much in the way of herbs, and acupuncture, while

very effective, is usually hard to locate.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Child's cold..  Hot? Cold?

From: "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:54:50 -0800

--------

   My 2 1/2 year old has a nasty cold.

        1st Symptoms: stuffy nose, cough, whiney

          Then: fever (103), flushed face, nose runny, mucus in right eye,

lathargic, hands shaky, no appetite



   Treated with: acidopholus, echinacea and homepathic cough syrup, vitamin C

                (gave children's motrin last night for his comfort, and mine

I                 suppose)



My question is what now?  Should I wrap him up to sweat it out?  Is this a

cold or hot cold?



Thanks for any quick replies!

Krista





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Child's cold..  Hot? Cold?

From: Kim Scott <kscott@QUICKLNK.QUICKLINK.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:58:25 -0600

--------

At 01:36 PM 1/19/97 GMT, you wrote:

>>    My 2 1/2 year old has a nasty cold.

>>         1st Symptoms: stuffy nose, cough, whiney

>>           Then: fever (103), flushed face, nose runny, mucus in right eye,

>> lethargic, hands shaky, no appetite



  <snip>

>



>>>

>Treating a young child is often a case where homeopathic ___single-remedy___

>therapy using a home kit and guide is the most satisfying course of action.

>Young children can't take much in the way of herbs, and acupuncture, while

>very effective, is usually hard to locate.

>

>Paul

>

>



I agree with Paul with regards to using homeopathic medicine.  This works

quite well on children.  The difficulty lies in finding the right remedy.

It's much easier on older children and adults who can tell you exactly what

they are feeling.  I own a large homepathic kit which I keep on hand at all

times.  You can purchase one through your local health food store, along

with a good starter book.  It does take a lot of studying - but it is well

worth it!



Kim





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Child's cold..  Hot? Cold?

From: "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:34:12 -0800

--------

Thanks for the quick advice Paul & Kim.  I do, in fact have a homepathic kit

also..I just get confused about which rememdy to give.

        I have a call into my homeopathic doctor (she was out of town).  I

don't think she has recommended the same remedy twice based on his symptoms

so I don't know what to use.  Arnica or kali bic where my first guesses, but

I haven't given him anything yet, not that it would hurt, but I hate

guessing and using too many remedies.



He's still feverish, sleeping, and won't eat.



Thanks again,

Krista



At 11:58 PM 1/19/97 -0600, you wrote:

>At 01:36 PM 1/19/97 GMT, you wrote:

>>>    My 2 1/2 year old has a nasty cold.

>>>         1st Symptoms: stuffy nose, cough, whiney

>>>           Then: fever (103), flushed face, nose runny, mucus in right eye,

>>> lethargic, hands shaky, no appetite

>

>  <snip>

>>

>

>>>>

>>Treating a young child is often a case where homeopathic ___single-remedy___

>>therapy using a home kit and guide is the most satisfying course of action.

>>Young children can't take much in the way of herbs, and acupuncture, while

>>very effective, is usually hard to locate.

>>

>>Paul

>>

>>

>

>I agree with Paul with regards to using homeopathic medicine.  This works

>quite well on children.  The difficulty lies in finding the right remedy.

>It's much easier on older children and adults who can tell you exactly what

>they are feeling.  I own a large homepathic kit which I keep on hand at all

>times.  You can purchase one through your local health food store, along

>with a good starter book.  It does take a lot of studying - but it is well

>worth it!

>

>Kim

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Child's cold..  Hot? Cold?

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:20:06 GMT

--------

>         I have a call into my homeopathic doctor (she was out of town).  I

> don't think she has recommended the same remedy twice based on his symptoms

> so I don't know what to use.  Arnica or kali bic where my first guesses,

but

> I haven't given him anything yet, not that it would hurt, but I hate

> guessing and using too many remedies.

>

> He's still feverish, sleeping, and won't eat.



Give him a dose of belladonna. The "ABC's" of childcare are Aconite,

Belladonna, and Chamomila.



A few low potency, non-polychrest doses of your best guess won't hurt...don't

worry.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Child's cold..  Hot? Cold?

From: Kim Scott <kscott@QUICKLNK.QUICKLINK.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:12:16 -0600

--------

Krista:



This is a long one, so anyone not interested in viewing contents, please delete.

This is an overview of basic remedies for colds.  For more in-depth

information, you need a materia medica (very difficult to use - only for the

experienced).



Aconite:  Sp. indic. - first stages of a cold, quickly settles in chest,

breathing sounds harsh; Guiding symptoms - comes on suddenly. afterexposure

to cold, dry winds, restlessness, anxiety, fear; Worse from - night, warm

room, lying on painful side; better from - open air



Belladonna:  Guiding symptoms - sudden and violent onset,restlessness, red

face, hot dry skin, feverish, eyes red, sensitive to light, pupils dilated,

pulse hard and pounding; worse from - afternoon, lying down, touch, jar,

noise; better from being semierect



Bryonia: Sp. indic. - dry stuffy nose, dry lips, harsh dry cough; guiding

symptoms - wants to be left alone, irritable, cries for something then

refuses it; worse from - any motion or movement, touch; better from - rest quiet



Gelsemium: Guiding symptoms - lethargic, eyes droopy, heavy-lidded, fever,

chills up and down back, soft and flowing pulse, thirstless, symptoms

develop several days after exposure; wrose from - 10a.m., damp weather,

excitement; better from - open air, continued motion, profuse urination



Hepar sulphuris:  Sp. indic. - constant discharge, discharge yellow, from

one nostril, rattling breathing, loose rattling cough; guiding symptoms -

sensitive to draft, irritable, sweaty; worse from - dry cold weather; better

from - damp weather, warmth, after eating



Mercurious vivus: Sp. indic. - with diarrhea; guiding symptoms - drooling

more than usual, sweaty, sick odor, weakness, trembling; worse from - night,

damp weather, sweating, lying on right side, warm room, warm bed



Nux Vomica: Sp. indic. - nose drips daytime, nose stuffy at night and

our-of-doors; guiding sypmtoms - irritable, burping; worse from - 4 a.m.,

eating, touch; better from - evening, uninterrupted nap, firm pressure, damp

weather



Pulsatilla:  Sp. indic. - for "ripe colds", thick creamy bland discharge;

guiding symptoms - desires open air, wants attention, changeable; worse from

- heat, after eating; better from - open air, motion, cold applications



Remember, the key to homeopathy is selecting the remedy that matches the

totality of the symptoms.  The key to the choice of remedy is provided by

the observation of those small differences that distinguish one person from

another.  Even given the right remedy, speed of recovery will vary from

person to person.

I hope this helps a little.  I hope your little one recovers quickly.



Kim

kscott@quicklink.net



At 12:34 PM 1/20/97 -0800, you wrote:

>Thanks for the quick advice Paul & Kim.  I do, in fact have a homepathic kit

>also..I just get confused about which rememdy to give.

>        I have a call into my homeopathic doctor (she was out of town).  I

>don't think she has recommended the same remedy twice based on his symptoms

>so I don't know what to use.  Arnica or kali bic where my first guesses, but

>I haven't given him anything yet, not that it would hurt, but I hate

>guessing and using too many remedies.

>

>He's still feverish, sleeping, and won't eat.

>

>Thanks again,

>Krista

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Ethnopharmacological education

From: "<Chris Robbins>" <Robbincs@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:07:44 -0500

--------

I'm interested in returning to shcool to study ethnopharmacology within the

context of conservation biology.  I'd like to look at the ecological,

socioeconomic, political, and cultural factors that might be important in

conservaing plant reources used for pharmacological purposes.  Can anyone

recommend programs in the United States that offer this kind of

interdisciplinary curriculum?  Thank you.



Robbincs@aol.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Colon Therapy??

From: Anne Ludden <OyGavalt@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:53:57 -0500

--------

Does anyone have any information on colon therapy?



Any info would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks in advance!!!





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Colon Therapy??

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:13:28 -0500

--------

Anne,



There have been a few books available on the subject, though none of them I

know of ever hit the top of the best sellers list.



One currently available is "Colon Health"  The Key to a Vibrant Life, by

Norman W, Walker, from Norwalk Press, Prescott, Ariz.  probably available

through a local health food store.  Walker also covers the subject in his

book "Become Younger".  Price of the books ia $5.00 - 6.00 each.



Also, if you have alternative heatlh practitioners locally, they would know

of any colonic therapists in the area.



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Colon Therapy??

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:16:46 GMT

--------

> Are you talking about colon cleansing, if so I can help.

>

> Denice



What, do you have expecially good rubber gloves?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Colon Therapy??

From: Denice Gherardini <DDenice@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:01:19 -0500

--------

Are you talking about colon cleansing, if so I can help.



Denice





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Gingko petrified and today

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:16:04 GMT

--------

> The ginko was widely distributed in prehistoric times and the petrified

> forest at Vantage was laid down at that time.  Subsequently gingkos died

> out in most of the world.  A few specimin trees were found in the 1700s

> in an Asian monastary.



And? Are you implying it had died out except for those specimens? Not at all

true...there are many thousand year old individuals in Japan and China...the

tree has been in Chinese cultivation since 1100 [pace Herbal Emissaries].

What is discovered by the West suddenly exists for all, and could not have

existed previously.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Gingko petrified and today

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:17:06 EST

--------

Richard-



The ginko was widely distributed in prehistoric times and the petrified

forest at Vantage was laid down at that time.  Subsequently gingkos died

out in most of the world.  A few specimin trees were found in the 1700s

in an Asian monastary.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:32:01 -0800 linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

writes:

>At 06:37 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>

>>it was introduced into europe in 1730, and into england in 1754 from

>which

>>country thirty years later it was brought to the us...

>>

>>hope this has been helpful info..

>>

>>

>in washington state there is a state park called 'gingko petrified

>forest

>state park'

>now how did those trees brought here in 1784 get petrified so quickly?

><g>

>

>richard

>

>

><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

>                richard and linda                       seattle wa.

>

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Holism, was Re(2): This darn influenza!!!

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:16:14 GMT

--------

> >I'm an herbalist...I don't seek microbiologist perspectives, personally,

but

> >holistic understandings.

>

> Paul-

>

> I would suggest that a "holistic understanding" of _any_ disease process

> would have to include careful and educated consideration of the underlying

> cause (microbiological or otherwise)



"Underlying cause." What is an underlying cause? From a holistic standpoint,

the person's LIFE  is the underlying cause, as much as any supposed pathogen.



>in relation to the physical, emotional

> and spiritual body.



Well, when you work out the microbiology of the spiritual body, let me know.



>Isn't that the whole point of a holistic approach to

> wellness?

>

> Nancy



No, the point of holistic approaches to wellness is that they avoid the

mechanistic reductive model of the human body that is the foundation stone of

technological medicine.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:16:50 GMT

--------

> Hello,

> Does anyone have any suggestions for curing and preventing athletes foot?



Does he drink coffee or alcohol?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:48:37 GMT

--------

> He likely has systemic candidaiasis.  Get him to a good holistic

> practitioner for a diagnosis.



Much more likely he has an accumulation of Dampness due to lifestyle errors.



Systemic candidiasis is a VERY impoverished diagnosis, one that goes begging

after reductive biomedicine for its conceptualization, and relies on toxic

plants where lifestyle rectification is more to the point.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: athletes foot

From: "T'ainne" <stondncr@VOICENET.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:53:19 -0500

--------

Hello,

Does anyone have any suggestions for curing and preventing athletes foot?

My husband has never had it before but picked it up from my nephew and by

comaparing feet we determined that it is athletes foot.   My husband has

tried over the counter sprays, diluted bleach, iodine, powders, clean

bleached socks, new shoes, and tea tree oil.   This is really making him

crazy.   He has lost a layer or so of skin on his toes from using the bleach

stuff.   He has the most problem with itchyness at night.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated  .... as our next step would be

to go to a Dr.



T'ainne





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Gwenn Scott <GScott5555@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:39:15 -0500

--------

Have your husband soak his feet in water with a few drops of Tea Tree oil.



Gwenn Scott





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:58:35 -0600

--------

My husband has had athletes foot before and he used that cream you buy for

yeast infections, with myconazole.  It worked well, but he had to use it for

about a week.  You also might try washing his socks 4 or 5 times before he

wears them again.



At 04:53 PM 1/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello,

>Does anyone have any suggestions for curing and preventing athletes foot?

>My husband has never had it before but picked it up from my nephew and by

>comaparing feet we determined that it is athletes foot.   My husband has

>tried over the counter sprays, diluted bleach, iodine, powders, clean

>bleached socks, new shoes, and tea tree oil.   This is really making him

>crazy.   He has lost a layer or so of skin on his toes from using the bleach

>stuff.   He has the most problem with itchyness at night.

>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated  .... as our next step would be

>to go to a Dr.

>

>T'ainne

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:16:33 EST

--------

FWIW, you could try a raw cider vinegar/warm water foot bath.



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Mike McLain <Watcher@CSOLUTION.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:25:04 -0500

--------

HE>My husband has had athletes foot before and he used that cream you buy for

HE>yeast infections, with myconazole.  It worked well, but he had to use it for

HE>about a week.  You also might try washing his socks 4 or 5 times before he

HE>wears them again.



HE>At 04:53 PM 1/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

HE>>Hello,

HE>>Does anyone have any suggestions for curing and preventing athletes foot?

HE>>My husband has never had it before but picked it up from my nephew and by

HE>>comaparing feet we determined that it is athletes foot.   My husband has

HE>>tried over the counter sprays, diluted bleach, iodine, powders, clean

HE>>bleached socks, new shoes, and tea tree oil.   This is really making him

HE>>crazy.   He has lost a layer or so of skin on his toes from using the bleac

HE>>stuff.   He has the most problem with itchyness at night.

HE>>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated  .... as our next step would b

HE>>to go to a Dr.

HE>>

HE>>T'ainne

HE>>

HE>>

I am new to the list and I am enjoying it very much. I had some of this

same problem once and heard about apple cider vinegar..it worked!

Just soak your feet in it for about 10 mins. and rinse and dry. If

anyone knows of any danger in this please let it be known.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:47:25 -0900

--------

At 04:53 PM 1/19/97 -0500, T'ainne wrote:

>Hello,

>Does anyone have any suggestions for curing and preventing athletes foot?

>My husband has never had it before but picked it up from my nephew and by

>comaparing feet we determined that it is athletes foot.   My husband has

>tried over the counter sprays, diluted bleach, iodine, powders, clean

>bleached socks, new shoes, and tea tree oil.   This is really making him

>crazy.   He has lost a layer or so of skin on his toes from using the bleach

>stuff.   He has the most problem with itchyness at night.

>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated  .... as our next step would be

>to go to a Dr.

>

>T'ainne

>

>

He likely has systemic candidaiasis.  Get him to a good holistic

practitioner for a diagnosis.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Kim Scott <kscott@QUICKLNK.QUICKLINK.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:52:25 -0600

--------

At 04:53 PM 1/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello,

>Does anyone have any suggestions for curing and preventing athletes foot?



><snip>

>

>T'ainne

>

>



T'ainne -



Read your post and was surprised to hear that he has tried tea tree oil and

it doesn't help.  My husband uses tea tree oil when he gets flare ups of the

stuff. It only flares up upon wearing his firefighter boots and shoes that

are very air tight.  He needs to wash his feet thoroughly before going to

bed and apply tea tree oil using a cotton swab on the infected and

surrounding areas.  Got to bed (without socks - if you can take the smell).

If he has sensitive skin and is irritated by this, dilute this on a 10:1

ratio of olive oil and tea tree oil.  There are a couple of really good

little books on the stuff, too.  Hope this helps.



Kim





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: athletes foot

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:03:14 -0900

--------

At 07:48 PM 1/19/97 GMT, Paul Iannone wrote:

>> He likely has systemic candidaiasis.  Get him to a good holistic

>> practitioner for a diagnosis.

>

>Much more likely he has an accumulation of Dampness due to lifestyle errors.

>

>Systemic candidiasis is a VERY impoverished diagnosis, one that goes begging

>after reductive biomedicine for its conceptualization, and relies on toxic

>plants where lifestyle rectification is more to the point.

>

>Paul

>

>

Correct.  I did not mean for candidaiasis to be THE diagnosis.  It is

certainly a symptom of larger underlying causes which need to be diagnosed.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: UNfertility

From: "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:34:50 -0800

--------

Hi,

        The opposite of a recent post.  My third child is 5 weeks old and I

don't want to get pregnant (at least not for a couple years). I Don't want

to be on the pill,  don't like/trust condems (this new baby was a condem

baby) and I am nursing so there is no way to know if I am ovalating or not.

(I got my period at 8 weeks post pardum with the 2nd child).

        So what's left......besides no sex.



Thanks

Krista





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Growing/buying sandalwood

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:48:25 GMT

--------

> Hello,

> I am very interested in growing sandalwood.  If anyone has a good place to

> buy it, or knows of a company that sells it, please email me at

> TCLONTS@eac.cc.az.us  and not to the list.  Thank you very much

>

> Tommy



Well, you'll need a big lot in the tropics and about 80 years or so to

wait....



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Growing/buying sandalwood

From: Tommy Clonts <TCLONTS@EAC.CC.AZ.US>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:58:49 -0700

--------

Hello,

I am very interested in growing sandalwood.  If anyone has a good place to

buy it, or knows of a company that sells it, please email me at

TCLONTS@eac.cc.az.us  and not to the list.  Thank you very much



Tommy

 l





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Re. lobelia

From: James Reisinger <REISINGERJ@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:45:56 -0500

--------

Caryl.  Thanks for the tip on Ricter's Catalog.  Great catalog.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re. lobelia

From: Evo & Caryl <emarcon@TALLSHIPS.ISTAR.CA>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:42:47 -0800

--------

I don't know if it's legal to mail order lobelia into Canada, but

Richters has it in dried form, or, if you want to grow it, also seeds

and plants. They're at www.richters.com

Good luck



Caryl





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Re. lobelia

From: Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:51:29 GMT

--------

On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:42:47 -0800, Evo & Caryl

<emarcon@TALLSHIPS.ISTAR.CA> wrote:



>|I don't know if it's legal to mail order lobelia into Canada, but

>|Richters has it in dried form, or, if you want to grow it, also seeds

>|and plants. They're at www.richters.com

>|Good luck

>|

>|Caryl

Richter's is in Canada so I would think they ship to another Canadian.



Sarah

Sarah Elizabeth, Flemming sui juris

hitech@augusta.net





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Athletes foot

From: Penny Hemans <pennyh@THENET.CO.UK>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:32:44 +0000

--------

Hi Tainne



Athletes foot loves warmth and sweaty feet.  Throw away any synthetic socks

and change to natural cotton or wool.  Leather shoes are a must.  Wearing

open-air sandals in the summer should reduce the blistering.  My chiropody

college swore by these methods.



Penny





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: New Member

From: "Richard H. Magee" <RMagee3624@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:45:24 -0500

--------

Sorry for sounding redundant as all new members must. But I would like to

know what medicinal herbs I should be  planning to grow this coming spring. I

live in Upstate New York.  I am interested in herbs that are revitalizing

and/or purifying.



Rick





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Altzheimer's

From: Jana Lhotka <csc90a02@DVC.EDU>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:03:24 -0800

--------

If you please, what are the signs of Altzheimer's disease besides the

normal age-related cognitive decline in a 70-year-old female?  Any

remedies, at least to prevent a rapid progress of the disease? Thanks for

any reply, the more the better. Jana.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Altzheimer's

From: "Lori A. Campbell" <lcampbel@MAIL.COIN.MISSOURI.EDU>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:40:34 -0600

--------

On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Jana Lhotka wrote:



> If you please, what are the signs of Altzheimer's disease besides the

> normal age-related cognitive decline in a 70-year-old female?  Any

> remedies, at least to prevent a rapid progress of the disease? Thanks for

> any reply, the more the better. Jana.

>

Gingko Bilboa is supposed to be good for this.



Lori





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Altzheimer's

From: linda/richard <kyote@WOLFENET.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:13:39 -0800

--------

At 04:03 PM 1/19/97 -0800, you wrote:

>If you please, what are the signs of Altzheimer's disease besides the

>normal age-related cognitive decline in a 70-year-old female?  Any

>remedies, at least to prevent a rapid progress of the disease? Thanks for

>any reply, the more the better. Jana.

>

jana;

go to www.halcyon.com/alzh9/



richard



<><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                richard and linda                       seattle wa.



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:32:46 -0900

--------

At 04:55 PM 1/18/97 -0500, Ms. Joanna Webb wrote:

>Could anyone give me information for the best treatment for mild burns?

>

>Thanks,

>

>Joanna

>

>

I keep an aloe vera plant in my home for such emergencies.  When someone in

my family gets a minor burn (not one where flesh is burned off) I simply cut

a leaf the size to cover the burn, slice it in half and put the jelly part

against the burn and cover with a bandaid.  The aloe alleviates the pain and

hastens healing.  3rd degree burns require measures to fend off infection

and require professional help.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: New Member's garden

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:32:10 EST

--------

Nettles, St.Johnswort, echinicea (augustifolia if you can get it,

otherwise purpurea), filipendula, Joe Pye weed, boneset, blueberries,

mugwort, motherwort, ashwaganda (if you can find the seeds), mints,

basil, oregano, rosemary, lemon balm, white pine, wild ginger, chickweed,

dandelion, chicory, lavender, black cohosh, milk thistle, blessed

thistle, sweet annie.  You may have several already disguised as weeds.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:45:24 -0500 "Richard H. Magee"

<RMagee3624@AOL.COM> writes:

>Sorry for sounding redundant as all new members must. But I would like

>to

>know what medicinal herbs I should be  planning to grow this coming

>spring. I

>live in Upstate New York.  I am interested in herbs that are

>revitalizing

>and/or purifying.

>

>Rick

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: No Subject

From: "Doris A. Rich" <Rd32980@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:59:54 -0500

--------

Are the burned areas just red or are there blisters present?



For reddened areas, no treatment is necessary.  You might want to keep it

covered.  For blisters, do not burst them.  Keep them covered with a salt and

water solution (1/4 tsp. salt to 8oz of water).  Change dressings about twice

a day until blisters have gone away.  This will keep them from getting

infected.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: No Subject

From: "M. Pacord" <Mpacord@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:16:17 -0500

--------

It is also important to reduce the thermal damage by reducing the temperature

some.  Soaking a burned hand in cold water for a while before using the aloe

vera (great choice) will go a long way toward healing.  An aspirin (or

meadowsweet) helps, too.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Low Sperm Count

From: Vickie Skillman <MONGO520@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:46:25 -0500

--------

Hello all:  Previously I had written to ask if there were any herbs out there

which would increase fertility... I guess I should have clarified my

situation.  My husband has a low sperm count and do you all know of any herbs

which could somehow aid us with this particular problem?

And by the way, thank you all so much who have previously offered me some

possible solutions!





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Low Sperm Count

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:19:59 GMT

--------

> My husband has a low sperm count and do you all know of any herbs

> which could somehow aid us with this particular problem?

> And by the way, thank you all so much who have previously offered me some

> possible solutions!



Does he have a sweet tooth? Does he drink coffee daily?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: horehound

From: Rob Loach <rdloach@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:06:22 EST

--------

Does anyone have a good recipe for horehound cough drops/candies?  I got

a start of horehound this past year, and I think that I'll have enough

this next year to do something with.  TIA.

Rob



Rob Loach in Greenville SC

rdloach@juno.com =^..^= =^..^= =^..^=

"Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable

in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer." Psalm 19:14





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: horehound

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:02:29 -0900

--------

At 10:06 PM 1/20/97 EST, Rob Loach wrote:

>Does anyone have a good recipe for horehound cough drops/candies?  I got

>a start of horehound this past year, and I think that I'll have enough

>this next year to do something with.  TIA.

>Rob

>

>Rob Loach in Greenville SC

>rdloach@juno.com =^..^= =^..^= =^..^=

>"Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable

>in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer." Psalm 19:14

>

>

There's a recipe in "THe Joy of Cooking".  If you don't have this cookbook,

I'll copy the recipe for you.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Mullein compress

From: Norma Butts <nbutts@PORTAL.CA>

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:06:16 -0800

--------

Anita,

Thanks for the information.  I have bought some blue cohosh and will try

that for now.  I have grown lobelia in the past and never thought to dry it

but will this summer.  In the meantime, Caryl thanks for the website

address.  I'll try that route.  I'm not sure why they made this herb illegal

here - maybe because some people were trying to smoke it. When my son-in-law

was trying to quit smoking and was living in England it was part of the

ingredients in a herbal cigarette he bought.  From what little I've read

lobelia is only safe externally.

Anyway, thanks for the information and I'll try the compress with blue

cohosh and let you know how it works.

Norma





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Mullein compress

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:02:21 -0900

--------

At 08:06 PM 1/20/97 -0800, Norma Butts wrote:

>Anita,

>Thanks for the information.  I have bought some blue cohosh and will try

>that for now.  I have grown lobelia in the past and never thought to dry it

>but will this summer.  In the meantime, Caryl thanks for the website

>address.  I'll try that route.  I'm not sure why they made this herb illegal

>here - maybe because some people were trying to smoke it. When my son-in-law

>was trying to quit smoking and was living in England it was part of the

>ingredients in a herbal cigarette he bought.  From what little I've read

>lobelia is only safe externally.

>Anyway, thanks for the information and I'll try the compress with blue

>cohosh and let you know how it works.

>Norma

>

>

Perhaps I can shed some light on why  lobelia gets a bad rap.  There was an

herbalist by the name of Samuel Thompson who was introduced to Lobelia by

the Indians (American).  He used it with great success for many ailments.

However, a local MD became very upset when some of his patients left him to

go to Mr. Thompson for treatment.  He began a viscious campaign against Mr.

Thompson which included harassment and even a frivolous lawsuit accusing him

of killing his patients. He cited about 100 incidents of death supposedly

attributed to the taking of Lobelia as prescribed by Mr. Thompson.  None of

the cases cited could be inconclusively attributed to Lobelia and the case

was dismissed.

  Even though the case could not prove that Lobelia contained deadly

poisons, it has been listed in the US Pharmacopaeia as a poison.

  Lobelia is generally used as an agent for asthma (smoked) sometimes mixed

with Coltsfoot.  It is used in infusion or acid tincture for stomach

problems as it cleanses the mucous membranes.  In larger doses it is emetic

(makes you vomit).

  certainly it is a potent medicine and should be used prudently within the

confines of educated dosages.  I personally have used Lobelia for many years

for many things.  Some people find it emetic at smaller doses than other

people.  It is better to give less than more as you use it on a new client

to find the proper dosage for this herb.  For example, my husband can only

take a few grains before it makes him queasy.  I can take a whole capsule

without problem but I seldom use it alone like that.  I think a person would

vomit before he could take a toxic dose anyway.

  Smoking it may be different.  I know persons who have become dizzy and

nauseated smoking it but they may have used it too much.  Use it sparingly.

  At any rate, I don't feel it is as dangerous as some other things the AMA

spreads before us as miracle drugs.  There is controversy.  But I know of no

case where it has be definately indicated as the bringer of death.  Maybe

someone else has information I don't but it doesn't hurt to search.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Athlete's Foot

From: Norma Butts <nbutts@PORTAL.CA>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:24:09 -0800

--------

I picked up athlete's food at the swimming pool last year and found that the

cream I bought in the drug store didn't work.  What did work for me was

putting comfrey in a footbath and soaking my feet in it.  According to my

Rodale's Herb Book, it is the allantoin that is in comfrey that does the

healing.

Norma





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: moxibustion mixtures

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:19:54 GMT

--------

> What are the specific herbs used in moxibustion mixtures?

>

> E.g., on http://www.bod.na.no/jahpron/moxaeng.htm I see:

>

>    Western Medicine recognizes effectiveness of Senefa Moxa as an highly

>    interesting oriental Medicine. Moxibustion has been practiced for over

>    a thousand years in oriental countries like China and Japan, as a

>    therapy to cure diseases by stimulating innate healing power of the

>    human body.

>

> along with a list of "Mini-Moxa" products.  My Richters catalog says

> that mugwort is "[u]sed in Japan for moxibustion."  Are moxibustion

> mixtures proprietary, or made case by case by oriental herbalists?



Most moxa is made from 'pure' mugwort leaves, but some have additional

ingredients, designed generally to enhance the dispersing or pain-relieving

effects of the moxa.



Generally, pure "smokeless" moxa is the preferred type for use...it is not

unknown for moxa mixtures to be contaminated with lead and other heavy metal

nasties.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: moxibustion mixtures

From: Reed Darsey <maf00039@MAF.MOBILE.AL.US>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:48:52 -0600

--------

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----



What are the specific herbs used in moxibustion mixtures?



E.g., on http://www.bod.na.no/jahpron/moxaeng.htm I see:



   Western Medicine recognizes effectiveness of Senefa Moxa as an highly

   interesting oriental Medicine. Moxibustion has been practiced for over

   a thousand years in oriental countries like China and Japan, as a

   therapy to cure diseases by stimulating innate healing power of the

   human body.



along with a list of "Mini-Moxa" products.  My Richters catalog says

that mugwort is "[u]sed in Japan for moxibustion."  Are moxibustion

mixtures proprietary, or made case by case by oriental herbalists?



__________________________________________________________________

Reed Darsey, Grand Bay, Alabama, USA     maf00039@maf.mobile.al.us



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=n0Fj

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==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: NaCL, K and HBP revisited

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:23:09 +0100

--------

        A little while back there was a discussion here on high blood pressure and

salt. Came across this from Reuters News Service. The "latest".  I am not

pushing anything here. I make up my own mind about how to eat and I hope

everyone else does too. Perhaps like all these studies it should be taken

with a grain of salt. (Did I really say that?)



Here are some excerpts I cut and pasted.



It begins like this:



NEW YORK (Reuters) - All Americans, not just those with high blood

pressure, should cut down the amount of salt in their diet, say a panel of

blood pressure experts.



It is abundantly evident that there is an inescapable connection between

salt intake and blood pressure. Not only for hypertensive patients but even

for the normotensive or so-called normal blood pressure groups," commented

Dr. Ray Gifford, Jr., professor of internal medicine at Ohio State

University College of Medicine, consultant to the Department of Nephrology

and Hypertension at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation, and a panel member.



  "Eighty percent of our salt intake comes from processed foods," said

Gifford.



        I think the crunch comes here in the relation between potassium and salt

in the body:



"In areas of the world where potassium intake is low and sodium intake is

high, hypertension is more prevalent than in areas where potassium intake

is higher," said Dr. Daniel Jones, director of the Division of Hypertension

at the University of Mississippi Medical Center.







Disclaimer:



I am not selling anything here, but however, if you wish to avail yourself

of 50 megabyte bags of salt, e-mail me privately and I will download them

to you in small easy to use 10 megabyte bundles. Be the first in your

neighbourhood to send the mercury on your doctor's blood pressure apparatus

through the ceiling.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: I explained myself once

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:49:38 GMT

--------

> << For goodness sakes folks, information is what it is all about, lets let

> the

>  information through, even if someone is selling the product. >>

>

> Yes please continue sharing information, that's what we're all interested

in.

>  When you find something that works for you it only makes sense to become a

> wholesale buyer, and to not share info about something that could help

> someone else makes no sense.  When we find a great restaurant we tell our

> friends. They can make their own minds up about it.  Let's stop giving

> sinister motives to people.  If you want more info , e-mail them privately,

> if not maybe it really helped someone else.



NOT HERE YOU DON'T. The 'information' on this list is non-commercial, and it

will stay that way. This tripe about 'telling our friends' has NOTHING to do

with this list. If you want to t(s)ell your friends, go to alt.folklore.herbs

and have a ball. It is equally unacceptable to use the list to generate email

replies outside the list.



NO ADS ON THIS LIST.

                                       ^ [that's a period].



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: I explained myself once

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:49:13 GMT

--------

> Paul, I am new to the list. Does the list belong to you? If so would you

> please post a notice of the rules so everyone would know what is allowed

> and what isn't. This I believe would prevent alot of misunderstanding.

> Thanks,

> Mike



The list belongs to those who contribute to the noncommercial aspect of it.

Henriette posts the list rules periodically.  "Misunderstanding" is not how I

would characterize commerce on a noncommercial list. People do not log on to

get ads from this list. If people want to get ads, go to alt.folklore.herbs

in Usenet and read ads to your hearts delight. NO ONE here needs to locate a

silver salesman, a kombucha clown, a BGA bug, a Pau d'Arco pimp, a Rexall

retard, an Herbalife huckster, a Cola conman, a Cat's Claw convert, or any

such thing.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: I explained myself once

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:35:07 GMT

--------

> Healers can certainly be self centered.



If they were truly self-centered, they woudn't bother with others. That is

all I meant. Obviously, any particular healer can be a fool.



>It would just be a "healer" with

> warped motives. As an example, a "healer" that has an ego that interferes

> with treatment, by giving the patient assorted messages, and so bringing

> about confusion within the consciousness of the patient. The Qi can be

> swayed by disordered thought and inharmonious energy. Simply dispensing

> information is all that is required.



Not by half. Information is usually either an incentive to change,  or simply

a placebo, while the therapy works. Since most of the actual informative

context in Chinese healing is beyond the grasp of lay persons, as is natural

to a professional field, information-imparting is by necessity a sideline.



> Do you pride yourself on being tough?



Sure. Am I supposed to be afraid of pride? Or toughness? I'm not in line to

become the next Mother Theresa, if that is what you mean.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: I explained myself once

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:13:49 -0500

--------

>> Healers can certainly be self centered.



>If they were truly self-centered, they woudn't bother with others. That

>is all I meant. Obviously, any particular healer can be a fool.



>Not by half.



Not by half of what?



>Information is usually either an incentive to change,  or

>simply a placebo, while the therapy works. Since most of the actual

>informative context in Chinese healing is beyond the grasp of lay

>persons, as is natural to a professional field, information-imparting is

>by necessity a sideline.



You have a more pessimistic view of individuals than I. It has been my

experience in my practice, that the more the patient understands what is

happening, and the mechanics, the more long term benefit the patient

receives. Additionally, if one knows how to communicate well with the

patient, just about anything is within their grasp. Any treatment one

engages in imparts information. I am interested in working as a team with

my patients, which requires smooth dialog.



>Sure. Am I supposed to be afraid of pride? Or toughness? I'm not in line

>to become the next Mother Theresa, if that is what you mean.

>Paul



No, Paul that is not what I mean. Pride of toughness is a common quality

amongst defeated combatants. One can be defeated by their own pride. If

you have studied martial arts, as you say, surely, you must have learned

that your greatest enemy is always yourself. In upper levels of martial

arts training, one learns pride interferes with discernment and

perception, leading to attention distracted toward pride, and away from

positive results. In other words, on a practical vein, pride is just

enough attention out of focus to distract attention from proper defense,

or offense.



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Altzheimer's Sign

From: Denice Gherardini <DDenice@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:05:52 -0500

--------

I looked into Alzheimers for my father as he was SURE he had it cause he was

forgetful. In my search I someone explained so simply, like this:



When you forget where you set down you coffee cup, your forgetful



When you forget how to MAKE coffee, it a sign of altzheimers



I have "technical" information which I will post shortly (babues crying gotta

go)



Denice





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 20 Jan 1997 to 21 Jan 1997

From: Alison Birks <ali@NTPLX.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:04:59 +0100

--------

Paul:



I have been following the posts regarding fruit consumption with

interest.  My usual intake of fruit is 1 or 2 servings daily of apples,

pears, dried apricots, figs or raisins.  Sometimes I eat banannas, and

in the summer I eat blueberries, strawberries, peaches and plums.  I am

in my late twenties, a lactating female, with no past or present health

problems to speak of.  I do not eat other types of sweets generally, do

not drink coffee, tea, or use alcohol.  I eat a whole foods, primarily

vegetarian diet with the addition of small amounts of fish and poultry.

As an experiment, I eliminated all fruit for 10 days, and found that it

caused me great digestive distress -- acid stomach, indigestion and a

gnawing feeling in my gut.  I also felt very tired during this time.

How do you explain this?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 20 Jan 1997 to 21 Jan 1997

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:05:02 GMT

--------

> I have been following the posts regarding fruit consumption with

> interest.  My usual intake of fruit is 1 or 2 servings daily of apples,

> pears, dried apricots, figs or raisins.  Sometimes I eat banannas, and

> in the summer I eat blueberries, strawberries, peaches and plums.  I am

> in my late twenties, a lactating female, with no past or present health

> problems to speak of.  I do not eat other types of sweets generally, do

> not drink coffee, tea, or use alcohol.  I eat a whole foods, primarily

> vegetarian diet with the addition of small amounts of fish and poultry.

> As an experiment, I eliminated all fruit for 10 days, and found that it

> caused me great digestive distress -- acid stomach, indigestion and a

> gnawing feeling in my gut.  I also felt very tired during this time.

> How do you explain this?



You are masking a health problem. You do have sweet cravings.



I would guess you skip and delay meals, don't get sufficient protein, rest,

and relaxation. You may also have heavy menstrual periods (when you are

having them). You may also have labile moods.



Oh, the explanation is that your Liver attacks your Stomach, which is weak.

Eating the fruit makes the Stomach weak, but the stimulant effect masks that,

and the fruit Cools the Stomach, which makes it weak also, but does Cool off

the Liver Qi which is where it shouldn't be.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Altzheimer's-Info II

From: Denice Gherardini <DDenice@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:39:08 -0500

--------

Ok, I.m back, babies napping!!!

Here is somemore information that I found on Altzheimers, during my search

for an answer. This information is as I interpretted it. I am not a doctor or

anything like that, I just research the alternatives to modern medicine.



As I said berfore, the disease is not one of forgetful, but of a decline in

intellectual function. Memory and abstract thought patterns are impaired.

Some additional things to watch for are depression, loss of bladder or bowel

control, misperception of there surroundings and/or time. Eventually thier

health and functioning progressively deterioate until they are totallly

incapaciated.



This disease is a dengenerative disease which is causes changes in the brain

Nerve fibers surrounding the brains memory center become tangled and.or

damaged and the information is no longer carried properly to or from the

brain. New memories cannot be formed and existing memories cannot be

retrieved. The exact cause of altzhemiers are unknown, but from the research

they have been able to prove, many of the "indicators" point to nutritional

deficencies (isn't that always the way??). Autopsies done on people with

altzheimers also reveal a high amount of aluminums and mercury.



Here are some of the recommendations for prevention and slowing the

progressive of Altzheimers and WHY to take them:



B-12 with B-5: This vitamin is important for brain function and is usually

found to be deficient in people with Altzheimers It plays a role in coverting

choline into acetylcholine needed for memory. B-12 functions in many

metabolic processes that affect nerve tissue including the formation of an

"insulation" barrier that surrounds many nerves. The recommend form is

administering the vitamins is either an injection or an isontic form, form

maixum absorbation and bioavailbility. Try this first, if the symptoms

disapear, it was not Altzheimers to begin with.



B-Complex:for alot of the reasons as above B's. Also, aids in digestion of

food to help release nutrients etc.



Vitamin C & E: oxygenate the blood which helps to transport oxygen to the

brain cells and protects them from free radical damage.



Pycnogenol: this one is important because it breaks the blood brain barrier

to protect brain cells from free radical damage and also oxygenates the

blood. this one is 50x more pwoerful than the Vit. E and 20x more powerful

than the vit. C.



Zinc: this one stops that plaque formation (that is thought to damage the

nerves) due to a zonc deficiency.



Ginko Biloba:  acts an antioxidant and increases blood flow to the brain and

helps to improve brain function.



There are some others things, but these are the ones I thought were the most

important.



Should you need additinal information or support the number for the

Altzheimers Association located in Chicago is 1-800-272-3900.



I hope I answered some of your question or maybe even eased your mind, it was

my pleasure.



Sincerely, DDenice





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Paul

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:05:13 GMT

--------

> Paul, I am new to the board, would you please explain what your current

> occupation is and what makes you such a professional on herbs.



I am a Chinese healer and a Taijiquan instructor and practitioner. I can

'see' Qi, and use that psychic capacity to treat with a sort of acupressure

bodywork as well. Beyond that, I have just learned that I can 'see'

cancer...so I guess I am going way off the deep end these days. Nonetheless,

my main field is traditional Chinese healing (from the archaic position it

was founded on), and I do read in the source material (in still-halting

Chinese), and have a large Chinese library.



Beyond that, I have been a patient of an excellent traditional homeopath for

15 years. I'm 41, and a keeper of finches and canaries. I live in Los

Angeles.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Paul

From: "Maria T. Bohle" <FRJOBO@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:39:38 -0500

--------

Paul,



    Do you have any information on the use of Peanut Shoots to promote sleep?

 Is this possibly suppressive?



     Appreciate any information you my have.  My books have nothing on this.



Maria





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: DEANA <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:50:19 -0600

--------

if you find any books that are helpful on the Alzheimer's (correct pselling

here might help) could you please fill me in? Thanks.



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: herbal certification, etc.

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:06:42 -0800

--------

Anybody heard of Herbal Healer Academy, inc. specifically Dr. Marijah

McCain, ND, MH in Mtn. View, Arkansas?  I an seriously considering

taking a few courses since it is in my home state, close in vicinity

(herbs close) .  She also offers a homeopathic course i am interested

in.  I am kinda excited, so please be kind, but I would appreciate the

truth if you know of it. Guess I will check with Better Business Bureau

or something if I get REALLY serious.

Linda Shipley





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: relief from cold/flu

From: Vickie Skillman <MONGO520@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:36:10 -0500

--------

I bet all of you know of something which could possibly help hurry a cold

along or maybe, possibly alleviate some of the more annoying symptoms like

fever, sore throat... Would you mind sharing some of your knowledge with me

(I'm new to this list so I don't have a clue)  thanks





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: relief from cold/flu

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:10:34 -0600

--------

Garlic pills, Cold eeze lozenges (if you can find any)



At 11:36 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:

>I bet all of you know of something which could possibly help hurry a cold

>along or maybe, possibly alleviate some of the more annoying symptoms like

>fever, sore throat... Would you mind sharing some of your knowledge with me

>(I'm new to this list so I don't have a clue)  thanks

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: relief from cold/flu

From: Anne Rosa <rosaa@UMICH.EDU>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:58:14 -0500

--------

echinacea tea is very good for boosting the immune system. i drink as

much

as i can when i have cold symptoms. check any natural remedy text and

you

should find it and other suggestions. i'll look again to see which ones

are best

it's handy to have them around, sometimes you don't know who to trust...





On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:36:10 -0500 MONGO520@AOL.COM (Vickie Skillman)

wrote:



>I bet all of you know of something which could possibly help hurry a

>cold

>along or maybe, possibly alleviate some of the more annoying symptoms

>like

>fever, sore throat... Would you mind sharing some of your knowledge

>with me

>(I'm new to this list so I don't have a clue)  thanks





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: relief from cold/flu

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:49:32 -0900

--------

At 11:10 PM 1/21/97 -0600, Valerie Holcomb wrote:

>Garlic pills, Cold eeze lozenges (if you can find any)

>

>At 11:36 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>I bet all of you know of something which could possibly help hurry a cold

>>along or maybe, possibly alleviate some of the more annoying symptoms like

>>fever, sore throat... Would you mind sharing some of your knowledge with me

>>(I'm new to this list so I don't have a clue)  thanks

>>

>>

>

>

The absolutely best things I have used are simply Boneset (Eupatorium perf.)

and peppermint.  They have been used for centuries with great success.  Yes,

I have tried and on occasion use garlic for some types of colds but these

two herbs are especially good for many types of colds, flu and sore throat.

When everyone else lost their voices with the latest flu, I could still talk

and got over it much sooner than anyone else.  But you must use it

frequently.  Drink it in hot tea every couple of hours.  Don't drink cold

drinks with it.  Boneset is somewhat bitter but I have found that the more

you need it the less bitter it tastes (a little strange but others have said

this too).  You can add a little licorice and honey to make it more

palatable.  Licorice is good for that sore throat too.  You might also add

about 1/8 tsp cayenne to the mixture for hoarseness.  This is tried and true

used by myself for many years with great success.  I find that garlic

doesn't help in some cases where the cold becomes entrenched in the chest

and thick green phlegm is present.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Ma Huang

From: Vickie Skillman <MONGO520@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:16:12 -0500

--------

Is Ma Huang an herb?  Do you believe it helps in controlling/suppressing

appetite?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: Valerie Holcomb <valerie@BALLISTIC.COM>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:22:05 -0600

--------

At 12:16 AM 1/22/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Is Ma Huang an herb?  Do you believe it helps in controlling/suppressing

>appetite?

>

Yes, it is an herb, aka, ephedrine.  I have used it before for these

purposes and yes it did suppress my appetite; but, it made me so "wired"

that I felt like I drank about ten cups of coffee.  I didn't like that

feeling much.  It also gave me an upset stomach.



-Valerie>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:16:03 GMT

--------

> I have the same reaction to Ma Huang as Valerie.



So does the entire universe. This is a powerful plant drug, one that is VERY

useful when used by experienced herbalists.



The idea that lay people should be dosing themselves with it blind, or for

that matter hitting the Payless for bottles of Pseudephed because they have

'a cold' is really one of the marvels of commerce!



They really should just put a small hammer in the bottle, and instruct you to

hit yourself over the head with it every four hours, or 'as needed.'



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: Joyce Belford <DBell99543@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:08:30 -0500

--------

I have the same reaction to Ma Huang as Valerie.



Joyce





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:49:34 -0900

--------

At 12:16 AM 1/22/97 -0500, Vickie Skillman wrote:

>Is Ma Huang an herb?  Do you believe it helps in controlling/suppressing

>appetite?

>

>

MaHuang is Chinese Ephedra.  It is an herb.  It has anti-histamine

properties that do tend to suppress appetite.  However,  it is a very strong

medicine.  It will raise blood pressure, cause dryness and make some persons

jittery and nervous, causing sleeplessness.  In my opinion, it is unsafe to

use as a dietary aid.  I've heard alot of hype from MLM's that use it in

diet products and they put these side effects in very small print if at all.

I've seen it dispensed to the public in fairs with no cautions or

restrictions posted to persons it may harm.  These practices will get this

herb, which is traditionally used for asthma, taken clear off the market.  I

believe a couple of states already have put a ban on its sale.  When this

herb is coupled with Guarana or caffeine, what you have is heart attack in a

bottle.  This practice should cease.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Ma Huang

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:24:48 -0800

--------

At 06:08 AM 1/22/97 -0500, you wrote:

>I have the same reaction to Ma Huang as Valerie.

>

>Joyce

>

Let's not forget that Ephedra was one of those herbs in the "Herbal Ecstasy"

that foolish twenty-nothings were using......one death attributed that I

know of....maybe more.  Should only be used with careful advice and

supervision from a qualified practitioner.



Be well,





Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Athlete's foot

From: Michelle Lewis <JLewis7639@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:16:18 -0500

--------

T'ianne,



Edgar Cayce recommended using witchhazel occasionally full strength and bathe

fee often in salt water.



Michelle Lewis





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Paul, sperm count, and cancer (in that order)

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:15:18 GMT

--------

> When the

> situation calls for a fast turnaround from the healing technique,

> allopathic medicine generally just can't be beat.



Wish that WERE 'generally' true. It is true of acute infection and mental

illness, and of course surgery, but the story pretty much ends there. Many

acute cases of illness are in fact _results_. Conventional medicine doesn't

treat results radically. It is like picking dandelions...if you don't pull

the root, you are only 'weeding' for today.



Btw, 'allopathy' is an acceptable description of much of herbalism. A better

term is 'conventional.'



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Paul, sperm count, and cancer (in that order)

From: Phyllis Johnpoll <phyllis.johnpoll@NCSL.ORG>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:37:56 GMT

--------

(Now, no one is to take that message header as descriptive of Paul...)



-> From:    Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> -> Subject: Re: antibiotic

rant: recovery



-> Utter tripe. Drugs generally act rapidly. Natural therapies, herbs and

-> nutritious foods require an available timeline. So if the world operated on

-> your bias, there would be a lot more dead people around.



-> Paul



Bravo, Paul! (I just realized I deleted what you were referring to, so

I'll summarize what I *think* was being discussed.....the issue was

whether "drugs" such as those used in allopathic medicine were

inherently bad, and Paul was replying to someone who as I recall was

insisting that all such drugs could be replaced by some form of more

"natural" therapy.) (And I agree that many herbs really should be

classified as drugs, but don't want to argue about it with ANYONE. It's

an opinion, okay?)



My medical doctor, an osteopath (same as an MD, really, with a few extra

lessons about muscle manipulation thrown in, to oversimplify it)

diagnosed me with strep a few years ago. She knew I didn't like overly

interventionist treatments so she gave me a little lecture about how

strep can cause or become rheumatic fever (the details of which are

now lost in the mists of time.) Yes, she agreed, in days of yore our

ancestors  treated diseases like strep with herbs and natural healing

techniques. However, in days of yore, our ancestors died of rheumatic

fever much more often than they do now. While it might be more

politically correct, she opined, to treat strep throat with herbs and

non-allopathic medicines (yes, an oxymoron, but a valid one...) it

didn't make sense to her and, when she was done explaining it, it didn't

make sense to me either.



IMHO, there is a time and a place for all kinds of healing. When the

situation calls for a fast turnaround from the healing technique,

allopathic medicine generally just can't be beat. When it calls for a

more gentle, longer course of treatment, herbs and non-traditional,

non-allopathic methods are in the running, but in a critical situation,

it's generally best to go with those old, nasty interventionist

thingies.....



The above was just my opinion, but I found myself agreeing so thoroughly

with what Paul had to say, I just had to reply.....



While I've got people's attention, though, I have a couple of things on

other topics....



Someone asked about increasing sperm count. I know that when I was

trying to get pregnant, the doctor told my husband to give up briefs and

wear boxer shorts for the duration. (Boy, did he HATE that!) Also, make

sure they're cotton. And avoid extremely hot showers or baths. An

herbalist recommended saw palmetto, but since my husband's sperm count

wasn't low he decided to forego having a pill to take every couple of

hours (since he tends to forget to take pills, anyway...) The doctor

also mentioned avoiding caffeine, but that's not an issue with my water

guzzling spouse, either, so we didn't worry about it.



Now, then, my mother has just told me (so casually I could scream) that

my father has "a little cancer" (literally what she said) in the

prostate. The ultrasound is next week, but it's apparently small and she

didn't sound worried. I'm not going to go forcing herbs on my dad just

now, but if the doctor decides the cancer is too small to worry about,

is there something I can suggest for him at that point? I don't want to

go burdening him with bunches of pills (he takes enough for his diabetes

and his heart blockage.....) but I'd at least like to suggest something

to strengthen his system against the cancer.



*BB*



ptj





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Paul, sperm count, and cancer (in that order)

From: "Barb (in the office)" <Drjkbz@DATAFLO.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:24:49 -0600

--------

Phyllis Johnpoll wrote:

>

> (Now, no one is to take that message header as descriptive of Paul...)

>

> -> From:    Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> -> Subject: Re: antibiotic

> rant: recovery

>

> -> Utter tripe. Drugs generally act rapidly. Natural therapies, herbs and

> -> nutritious foods require an available timeline. So if the world operated on

> -> your bias, there would be a lot more dead people around.

>

> -> Paul

>

> Bravo, Paul! (I just realized I deleted what you were referring to, so

> I'll summarize what I *think* was being discussed.....the issue was

> whether "drugs" such as those used in allopathic medicine were

> inherently bad, and Paul was replying to someone who as I recall was

> insisting that all such drugs could be replaced by some form of more

> "natural" therapy.) (And I agree that many herbs really should be

> classified as drugs, but don't want to argue about it with ANYONE. It's

> an opinion, okay?)

>

> My medical doctor, an osteopath (same as an MD, really, with a few extra

> lessons about muscle manipulation thrown in, to oversimplify it)

> diagnosed me with strep a few years ago. She knew I didn't like overly

> interventionist treatments so she gave me a little lecture about how

> strep can cause or become rheumatic fever (the details of which are

> now lost in the mists of time.) Yes, she agreed, in days of yore our

> ancestors  treated diseases like strep with herbs and natural healing

> techniques. However, in days of yore, our ancestors died of rheumatic

> fever much more often than they do now. While it might be more

> politically correct, she opined, to treat strep throat with herbs and

> non-allopathic medicines (yes, an oxymoron, but a valid one...) it

> didn't make sense to her and, when she was done explaining it, it didn't

> make sense to me either.

>

> IMHO, there is a time and a place for all kinds of healing. When the

> situation calls for a fast turnaround from the healing technique,

> allopathic medicine generally just can't be beat. When it calls for a

> more gentle, longer course of treatment, herbs and non-traditional,

> non-allopathic methods are in the running, but in a critical situation,

> it's generally best to go with those old, nasty interventionist

> thingies.....

>

> The above was just my opinion, but I found myself agreeing so thoroughly

> with what Paul had to say, I just had to reply.....

>

> While I've got people's attention, though, I have a couple of things on

> other topics....

>

> Someone asked about increasing sperm count. I know that when I was

> trying to get pregnant, the doctor told my husband to give up briefs and

> wear boxer shorts for the duration. (Boy, did he HATE that!) Also, make

> sure they're cotton. And avoid extremely hot showers or baths. An

> herbalist recommended saw palmetto, but since my husband's sperm count

> wasn't low he decided to forego having a pill to take every couple of

> hours (since he tends to forget to take pills, anyway...) The doctor

> also mentioned avoiding caffeine, but that's not an issue with my water

> guzzling spouse, either, so we didn't worry about it.

>

> Now, then, my mother has just told me (so casually I could scream) that

> my father has "a little cancer" (literally what she said) in the

> prostate. The ultrasound is next week, but it's apparently small and she

> didn't sound worried. I'm not going to go forcing herbs on my dad just

> now, but if the doctor decides the cancer is too small to worry about,

> is there something I can suggest for him at that point? I don't want to

> go burdening him with bunches of pills (he takes enough for his diabetes

> and his heart blockage.....) but I'd at least like to suggest something

> to strengthen his system against the cancer.

>

> *BB*

>

> ptj





Dear *BB*,



SAW PALMETTO!! Funny you mentioned it, in regard to increasing sperm

count, however, it is specifically recommended for the prostrate,

prostrate problems!  Have recently seen current studies: Saw

Palmetto/prostrate cancer!  Don't have specifics.  Research Saw Palmetto

and you will understand!



Barb





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Paul, sperm count, and cancer (in that order)

From: Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:29:43 GMT

--------

On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:37:56 +0000 (GMT), Phyllis Johnpoll

<phyllis.johnpoll@NCSL.ORG> wrote:



[snip]



>|Now, then, my mother has just told me (so casually I could scream) that

>|my father has "a little cancer" (literally what she said) in the

>|prostate. The ultrasound is next week, but it's apparently small and she

>|didn't sound worried. I'm not going to go forcing herbs on my dad just

>|now, but if the doctor decides the cancer is too small to worry about,

>|is there something I can suggest for him at that point? I don't want to

>|go burdening him with bunches of pills (he takes enough for his diabetes

>|and his heart blockage.....) but I'd at least like to suggest something

>|to strengthen his system against the cancer.

>|

>|*BB*

>|

>|ptj



Isn't like mom to tell you things like that? Mine either trivialized,

didn't bother or went into histrionics. You learn when to pay

attention.  As for the cancer, I've heard Essiac tea is good. It

doesn't taste bad either. Wish I'd known about it for my mom who died

of metastasized lung cancer. You can find it the health food store or

I have a recipe for it if you would like it.



I'll be praying for your dad and family.



Sarah



hitech@augusta.net

============================================================================

Sarah Elizabeth, Flemming       | They let me say it, I own it.

The HiTech Group                        | Come visit my home page:

P.O. Box 6629                   | http://www.augusta.net/sflemming/hitech/index.html

Aiken, PZ 29804-6629            | 

Republic of South Carolina      | or visit my candidate page:

      (803) 641-6554            | http://www.augusta.net/sflemming/index.html

FAX:  (803) 641-1332          | May the Lord guide and protect you.

============================================================================

"The Constitution is a radical document...it is the job of the

government to rein in people's rights." W.J.Clinton on MTV - 1992





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Peanut shoots, was Re(2): Paul

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:15:48 GMT

--------

> Paul,

>

>     Do you have any information on the use of Peanut Shoots to promote

sleep?

>  Is this possibly suppressive?



Many shoots have a mild sedative effect. Though I have read something about

this somewhere, I don't think I own the reference in which it was listed. I

would be more interested in WHY sleep is a problem in the particular case,

then in HOW to treat it generically.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Peanut shoots, was Re(2): Paul

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:42:06 GMT

--------

> BTW a 2C does promote sleep in a variety of causations.



A '2C'? You mean you're talking about homeopathic remedies?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Peanut shoots, was Re(2): Paul

From: "Maria T. Bohle" <FRJOBO@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:37:39 -0500

--------

Hello Paul,



     Can't agree with you more on the reason for the sleeplessness.



I am, however, working on my Thesis with BIH and this is one of the herbs I

have targeted.  Information is scanty.



I found the initial articles in The Herb Research Foundations news letter.



BTW a 2C does promote sleep in a variety of causations.



Thanks,   Maria





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Herbal Ramblings: A wild winter

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:21:20 +0000

--------

Come walking with me down to the creek and we can see

how the floods have changed our old spots. Don't worry

about the cold, or the patches of snow, it's not that

bad, and besides, a brisk walk is always good this time

of year. You can hear the creek now, let's head that

way. Seems no matter how I try to get to the creek, I

always end up at this spot. It's the noisiest spot on

the creek, and seems to be the easiest spot to find,

almost seems to draw me to this place. Wow, the creeks

have become wider, full of bustling freezing water. How

raging the floods must have been a few weeks ago. What

torrents must have gone through here. Look here, where

the creek makes a sharp right and s-curves up ahead.

This is where all the noise is coming from. Lets look

closer at this little peninsula that the river runs

around. It's been flooding all through here, all the

usual plants have been swept away and replaced with a

pile of sand. Sand, who knows how deep, swept with

ripples, almost as if a part of the still waters full of

ripples have been frozen, transformed into sand ripples.

We don't have to walk on them today, because we can

cross this fallen log to the creeks edge. What a nice

day, I feel deer around, perhaps we'll see them on our

way back.



Hmm, come over here! This part of the creek also has

been replaced by a sand bar. Let's touch it, its

volcanic sand, warn down from the Mountains l lava long

ago and transported here from miles away by the strong

hand of the another wild winter. It came from the high

country, now only accessible to us by ski or snowshoes.

Perhaps someday we can go snow camping up there, but not

today, I like the warm fire back at home.



Its winter now, let's imagine what might grow in a place

like this come spring, come summer, come the following

years. Remember what it was like last year along creeks

like these, in spots like these new sand bars a wet

sandy ripples. I can almost see the large purple Mimulus

lewisii's smiling mouths, I can almost taste there sweet

aromatic sepals.



Remember last year, when we were looking for Angelica.

we were walking along a creek like this, enjoying the

scents of the Artemisia douglasii, and finding a few

angelicas here, a few angelicas there along the creeks

edge. It was warm then, and the cool water felt so good

on our feet and legs as we walked along the rocky bottom

of the creek. Eventually we found a place were the creek

turned sharply. Walking away from the creek, what was

it? Twenty thirty, fifty feet? Either way, through a wet

drainage of  Artemisia we walked, and found ourselves in

a wet boggy area full of hundreds of Angelicas, both

genuflexa and arguta. The creek curved around this

"almost peninsula", around us. Good thing there was both

kinds of Angelica around. We were a little late to get

Angelica arguta, most of the schizocarps had split and

fallen off the umbels. Most were unidentifiable at that

time, without seeds, and there was so much Cicuta

douglasii around! But the Angelica genuflexa, with its

distinctive genuflexed leaves. Hitchcock calls it

"abaxially geniculate," but I think a picture is worth a

thousand words, its easy to understand it when you see

it like this, and I wouldn't call you sister "abaxially

geniculate." Well, you might want to remember these

words to impress friends at parties, I guess.



What a day we had! Was that laterally or dorsally

flattened? You would bring the Angelica roots to me, and

I'd double check the fruits to see that they really were

angelica. Always good to be safe, especially with

umbeliferaes. And the growth rings on these older roots.

remember how we counted them, and all the old Angelicas

had twenty to twenty five rings. And we pondered on the

meaning of this, as some of us went into the water for a

quick refreshing dip. What might have happened here

twenty five years ago?



Open your eyes, you must've been dozing, its cold here,

and I want to get moving. Look again, its suddenly

become clear. This sand bar will grow Artemisia,

mimulus, perhaps Angelica from the mountains. Perhaps in

twenty years we can come back again with another group

of new students. Perhaps they'll fall asleep at lunch in

Artemisia patches that will grow on that sand area.

Perhaps they'll ask, what happened here twenty years ago

the all this angelica was suddenly planted in the spot

by some unknown force? We will know, won't we.



And Michael Moore has said that many rivers in the

plains are so degraded, and that their upper lands have

been degraded, that the seeds no longer flow from the

mountain to replenish the river's edge down low. Lets be

thankful that Oregon's ecosystem is still a bit more

intact. And despite the CNN coverage, despite making the

front page of a major Chilean newspaper, Oregon geology

and ecology continues to evolve.







Howie Brounstein



howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbal Ramblings: A wild winter

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:09:14 -0800

--------

At 11:21 AM 1/22/97 +0000,  Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:



>Come walking with me down to the creek and we can see........







Thanks, Howie....as always your intuitive self finds balm for the irritated

psyche.



Be well,



Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbal Ramblings: A wild winter

From: Gloria Ramsey <ErthDancr3@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:58:20 -0500

--------

Howie

        That was lovely, just beautiful.  So positive, so refreshing.  Thank

you.  Part of my philosophy of natural healing involves such uplifting

retreats.  It is not only good for the soul and emotions, but for body as

well.  Thank you again.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Antihelminthis, was Re: antibiotic

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:26 GMT

--------

> P_> Then your knowledge base is hopelessly inadequate. Chronic worm and

> microbial bowel infections are among the most difficult of all cases to

treat

> effectively, with herbs OR drugs.

>

> P_> Paul

>

> Having not experienced such bowel problems myself, I don't claim knowledge

of

> the subject.  Information - Yes, Knowledge - No.



Sounds like the scoreboard in most of the herb groups.



> Regardless of your opinion in the matter, the herbs they used, worked -

sorry

> about that.



An opinion based on experience will have to exceed a couple of stories, yeah.

These are difficult cases, and they don't just yield to a few herbs and a

magic spell.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Paul, sperm count, and cancer (in that orde

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:33 GMT

--------

> Dear *BB*,

>

> SAW PALMETTO!! Funny you mentioned it, in regard to increasing sperm

> count, however, it is specifically recommended for the prostrate,

> prostrate problems!  Have recently seen current studies: Saw

> Palmetto/prostrate cancer!  Don't have specifics.  Research Saw Palmetto

> and you will understand!

>

> Barb



Please do not quote an entire passage when replying to a part.



Saw palmetto is grossly overrated as a curative agent for "prostate, prostate

problems." For one thing, it is a Warm herbal, and is therefore utterly

inappropriate for many prostatic hypertrophy cases, namely those due to Heat,

which is a very common pattern.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Scarring/was burns

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:39 GMT

--------

> Do you think this will help with other scarring?  My daughter was in an auto

> accident last week and has hundreds of sutures on her jaw line and neck.



Get her bromelain from the health food store. That, sufficient protein, and

supplemental vitamin C & E, and zinc are the first order of business.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Scarring/was burns

From: Patricia Brown <Pbrown1225@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:54:33 -0500

--------

Do you think this will help with other scarring?  My daughter was in an auto

accident last week and has hundreds of sutures on her jaw line and neck.

  The topical stitches were removed yesterday and the rest will absorb.  The

plastic surgeon is adamant about keeping neosporin on the area to prevent

scarring.  Do any of you have suggestions or experience with this?

thank you,

pat



> It smells terrible, but supposedly will take the pain out of really severe

>  burns without scarring.

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Scarring/was burns

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 04:07:30 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-22 13:56:38 EST, Pat Brown wrote:



> Do you think this will help with other scarring?  My daughter was in an

auto

>accident last week and has hundreds of sutures on her jaw line and neck.

>The topical stitches were removed yesterday and the rest will absorb.  The

>plastic surgeon is adamant about keeping neosporin on the area to prevent

>scarring.  Do any of you have suggestions or experience with this?



Pat-



Neosporin, a topical antibiotic, will prevent infection of the wounds by

staphylococcus or other normal skin flora. I'm sure there are some effective

natural alternatives (anyone?), but as antibiotics go, neosporin has been

used for decades and is relatively safe (one of the very few available

without a prescription).



The neosporin doesn't prevent scarring but rather infection, which vastly

increases the chance for scarring.

Good luck to you both!

Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Scarring/was burns

From: rob <rys@UCLA.EDU>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:58:31 -0800

--------

You might also consider a topical poultice of aloe GEL and comfrey which can

be beneficial in these cases. The best option as far as the aloe goes is to

buy your own plant(s)[easy to grow and a really nice multi-purpose herb].

The comfrey isn't too hard to grow either, but use GOOD QUALITY dried

store-bought if you need to. I have seen amazing results with this mixture.



rob







At 12:00 AM 1/23/97 +0200, you wrote:

>Date:    Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:39 GMT

From:    Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Subject: Re: Scarring/was burns



> Do you think this will help with other scarring?  My daughter was in an auto

> accident last week and has hundreds of sutures on her jaw line and neck.



Get her bromelain from the health food store. That, sufficient protein, and

supplemental vitamin C & E, and zinc are the first order of business.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: mother's milk

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:02:15 +0100

--------

I've been watching this topic being chatted around for a long bit now after

the post a while back about someone's needing to increase breast milk. Ok,

it's not exactly a male topic, which has kept me from writing. However,

believe it or not, I do have some experience (lewd comments by private

e-mail please).

        I was witness to my wife's breast feeding of our two sons. They were both

breast fed for about two years each.  My unscientific but empirical

opinions on this topic are based on the fact that I, as a parent, naturally

monitored the growth and health of both my wife and our children. One can't

help but take part. I have also hung around with various other lactating

females.

        In a nutshell: all things being equal, (they never are, are they?) you can

*tweak* the supply of milk with this herb or that herb, increase it (dill

for example) or decrease it (sage for example); one of the best foods in my

opinion being oatmeal (which they are just discovering to be a really cool

food re cholesterol, heart etc) however the single most important factor in

turning on or off the tap is the emotional state of the nursing mother.

Worry, or the belief that one will not or cannot or does not have milk will

in many cases create conditions for the "I didn't have enough milk"

syndrome no matter what herbs are consumed. So basically, as in so many

other things, it's one of those mind over matter situations. If you think

you can you probably will and viceversa.

        Even an angry state in the nursing mother will cause changes in the

quality (and quantity) of the milk given to the infant causing an upset

condition in the baby whether in its alimentary canal or in general

grumpiness and restlessness. So, the role of the mate in this in creating

the emotional space for breast feeding to occur remains quite essential.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: mother's milk

From: Cindy Lee <cindylee@MINDSPRING.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:17:51 -0500

--------

At 02:02 PM 1/22/97 +0100, Eric Feingold wrote:



>        Even an angry state in the nursing mother will cause changes in the



>quality (and quantity) of the milk given to the infant causing an upset



>condition in the baby whether in its alimentary canal or in general



>grumpiness and restlessness. So, the role of the mate in this in creating



>the emotional space for breast feeding to occur remains quite essential.





As will an anxious state (and probably others). I noticed a definite difference in let-down (occurring or not) when my husband supported me and helped me through some problems which resulting in anxiety over being able to bf or not. Without his support, I would 've (more than likely) given up.



<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>ffff,0000,ffff</param><bigger>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    ><<>  <<><<



         |_



        \__/



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Smiles,



Cindy Lee



Zone 8



cindylee@mindspring.com



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



 A rose by any other name would likely be



   "deadly thorn-bearing assault vegetation."



 (Robert Bullock)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</bigger></color></fontfamily>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: mother's milk

From: Anne Rosa <rosaa@UMICH.EDU>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:05:37 -0500

--------

it's a safe bet that just about everything you intake goes directly to

your baby. i am

a nurse-midwifery student, so i've had and am getting more experience

with this.

i don't know the exact timing involved, i would assume at least an hour

or so

or however long it takes you to digest what you have eaten. quantities

would

probably be slightly diluted, but given the distinct physiology of the

baby,

it's underdeveloped gastro-intestinal system and organs in general, as

well

as its 'tininess' would sort of wipe out any dilution your body

naturally made.



as far as giving herbal infusions, teas, directly, i have had

experiences where

this has upset the baby. depending on the age of the child, and the

specific herb

and amount, the reaction would very. i would stay away from giving

anythign too

strong, stimulants, or calmants, either way (this definitely goes for

alcohol,

for you both really. but that's totally up to you, of course. and if he

or she

is really little,

they really should be having nothing more than breast milk, not even

water. any

other ligquid takes up space so to speak, or soothes the appetite, using

up

valuable hunger and space for the milk, which is always more nutritious.



i hope that perspective helps!









On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:02:15 +0100 eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES (Eric Feingold)

wrote:



>I've been watching this topic being chatted around for a long bit now

>after

>the post a while back about someone's needing to increase breast milk.

>Ok,

>it's not exactly a male topic, which has kept me from writing. However,

>believe it or not, I do have some experience (lewd comments by private

>e-mail please).

>        I was witness to my wife's breast feeding of our two sons. They

>were both

>breast fed for about two years each.  My unscientific but empirical

>opinions on this topic are based on the fact that I, as a parent,

>naturally

>monitored the growth and health of both my wife and our children. One

>can't

>help but take part. I have also hung around with various other

>lactating

>females.

>        In a nutshell: all things being equal, (they never are, are

>they?) you can

>*tweak* the supply of milk with this herb or that herb, increase it

>(dill

>for example) or decrease it (sage for example); one of the best foods

>in my

>opinion being oatmeal (which they are just discovering to be a really

>cool

>food re cholesterol, heart etc) however the single most important

>factor in

>turning on or off the tap is the emotional state of the nursing mother.

>Worry, or the belief that one will not or cannot or does not have milk

>will

>in many cases create conditions for the "I didn't have enough milk"

>syndrome no matter what herbs are consumed. So basically, as in so many

>other things, it's one of those mind over matter situations. If you

>think

>you can you probably will and viceversa.

>        Even an angry state in the nursing mother will cause changes in

>the

>quality (and quantity) of the milk given to the infant causing an upset

>condition in the baby whether in its alimentary canal or in general

>grumpiness and restlessness. So, the role of the mate in this in

>creating

>the emotional space for breast feeding to occur remains quite

>essential.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: mother's milk

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:49:40 -0900

--------

ey?) you can

>*tweak* the supply of milk with this herb or that herb, increase it (dill

>for example) or decrease it (sage for example); one of the best foods in my

>opinion being oatmeal (which they are just discovering to be a really cool

>food re cholesterol, heart etc) however the single most important factor in

>turning on or off the tap is the emotional state of the nursing mother.

>Worry, or the belief that one will not or cannot or does not have milk will

>in many cases create conditions for the "I didn't have enough milk"

>syndrome no matter what herbs are consumed.

<snipping here and there>



RE oatmeal:  Avena sativa (oats) are warm, moist and sweet.  Its actions are

antidepressant, restorative nerve tonic, and promotes sweating.  To quote

Penelope Ody, "The herb is a good and resotrative nerve tonic, ideal for

depression and qi deficiency."

  What better thing to give a nursing mother in light of your comments?

Oatmeal each day keeps the blues away.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Burns

From: "Maria T. Bohle" <FRJOBO@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:25:06 -0500

--------

Another old 'folk remedy' for burns is Linseed Oil and Lime Water'  The lime

is a powdered form you buy from your pharmacist. Mix them half and half in a

bottle, shake well and apply to gauze put this on the burn.  Keep the gauze

wet.



This remedy removed all the pain from a blistered burn of mine that hurt from

the minute I go it until I used this stuff 2 days later.



It smells terrible, but supposedly will take the pain out of really severe

burns without scarring.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: herb for baldness

From: Keith Hooks <KHooks525@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:51:15 -0500

--------

Does anyone know of a herb that stops baldness or that restores natural hair?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb for baldness

From: Lisa Saul <lisas@MINDSPRING.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:11:30 -0500

--------

>Does anyone know of a herb that stops baldness or that restores natural hair?





As a professional and holistic stylist I must say that there is nothing to

restore baldness...I have found that regular scalp massage with

jojoba/capsiscum...or some have had good results with polysorbate 80( a

food preservative).The first mixture removes build up from the scalp and

encourages extra blood flow to the scalp...the second removes build up on

the scalp and seems to make the existing hair FEEL thicker.Also  eating a

balanced diet and finding ways to deal with stress always seems to be  of

some help.Low thyroid can also cause thinning hair.Avoid vasoconstrictors

such as coffee and cigarettes.Horsetail tea is good for the hair.Hope this

helps///



Lisa

Organica-A Natural Hair Salon

http://www.mindspring.com/~lisas/organica.html





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: antibiotic

From: Chuck Stoy <Stoychuck@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:52:03 -0500

--------

>St> It was their experience that anthelmintics (vermicides and vermifuges)

are more than adequate to handling the problem.



P_> Then your knowledge base is hopelessly inadequate. Chronic worm and

microbial bowel infections are among the most difficult of all cases to treat

effectively, with herbs OR drugs.



P_> Paul



Having not experienced such bowl problems myself, I don't claim knowledge of

the subject.  Information - Yes, Knowledge - No.



Regardless of your opinion in the matter, the herbs they used, worked - sorry

about that.



Chuck





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb list

From: Donna Geibel <AIMEB@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:11:20 -0500

--------

is there such a thing on this mailing list as a general list of herbs and

herbal remedies?  it would be helpful to some one like me whose knowledge is

limited on herbs.  maybe there is something out there i would be interested

in but am not aware it exists.  any info would be greatly appreciated.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb list

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:42:45 -0900

--------

At 04:11 PM 1/22/97 -0500, Donna Geibel wrote:

>is there such a thing on this mailing list as a general list of herbs and

>herbal remedies?  it would be helpful to some one like me whose knowledge is

>limited on herbs.  maybe there is something out there i would be interested

>in but am not aware it exists.  any info would be greatly appreciated.

>

>

You would be far better off buying a good book.  For starters, I would

recommend The Complete Medicinal Herbal, by Penelope ODY.  It is clear,

concise, tells how to use the herbs correctly, gives dosages and has

wonderful pictures.  Another one that is helpful is THE NEW AGE HERBAL. It's

kind of a hokey name but it has good information.

There are also web sites on the internet that are good.  Howie's Herbal Hall

is excellent and has links to other sites.  You can also do a web search in

Excite or Yahoo or something similar looking for herbal medicine.  There's

alot out there.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 21 Jan 1997 to 22 Jan 1997

From: Alison Birks <ali@NTPLX.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:48:41 +0100

--------

Paul:



What health problem(s) might I be masking?  What is the next logical

step?  If I stop eating fruit, will the undesirable effects

(indigestion, tiredness) go away after a period of time, or is there

something else I need to do?  If liver Qi is attacking my stomach, how

do I put it where it should be?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: A long winded introduction...

From: Denise Brown <deniseb@UP.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:34:32 -0500

--------

Hi all,



What an interesting list!  I like spice, and it looks like there's plenty

here.  I wanted to introduce myself as my name is Denise and would like to

make sure you all know the difference in the spellings (Denice/Denise), so

you can call the right one names...  or whatever!  (hi, Denice!)



I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan near Marquette.  I relocated here

from Denver, Colorado about 3 years ago.  I currently work for the Post

Office and have very little time for anything else at the moment, including

my husband, daughter and two labs.  My daughter is 12, my husband is 47 and

I'm 39 (really!).  I've been studying our native herbs off and on about 16

years and have absolutely no knowledge of Chinese herbology as it's proven

tough enough to remember all the varying names of the local weedery!  I hope

to expand my knowledge base on both, and whatever else there is to learn here.



I'll spit out my major physical ailment as eventually it'll be discussed by

someone on the list if not me, as many of us are female or are close to

females in some way shape or form.  I have "fibroid tumors" in my uterus.

(blush)



The textbook explanation of the condition is that the muscles in the lining

of the uterus for some unknown reason ball up into little hard nodules

forming a group of nodules resembling grapes.  The individual nodules then

grow larger and cause all kinds of side effects which I wont bring up at the

moment.  This is supposedly a simi-"normal" experience for an aging woman.

I don't buy it. They also say it's apparently from too much estrogen being

produced, again, I don't buy it.  They are 'usually' non cancerous, but can

evolve into it.  ???  (What is that?)



The 'medical community' says I have to live with it until it gets so out of

control that they can then justify a hysterectomy.  I say take the thing now

if that's where it's going to end up, and spare me the many years of

suffering.  But then, they won't do that either, it's not natural to be so

young and live without the resulting hormones.  That darn estrogen is still

necessary even though my body is supposedly having an allergic reaction of

some kind to it!



So MY reaction to it all was to look to herbs for some help with the

symptoms since the cause is much harder to determine.  What I've come up

with is to use tinctures of Damiana and Angelica drops in an equal amounts

in water - taking them three times a day (eight hours apart) every day in

order to maintain the same level in my system (could be smaller doses and

closer together to be more accurate about it, but no time to keep up with

that!).  I also am taking a small dosage of kelp twice daily.  I haven't

changed my diet otherwise.  And yes - I drink coffee.



I've done a lot of research on the herbs themselves as well as the medical

problem and either the information available is too sketchy or it's too

technical.  I'm not a scientist, but I would like to understand all the

processes that the herbs are affecting with more detail than most herb books

are able to provide, and without the explicit yet incomplete chemical

terminologies expressed in the available medical information.



Within three months of starting this regime I became a normally functioning

human being with no symptoms being exhibited, except for a((n) apparently)

normal life cycle completing itself instead of an abnormal one.  The tumors

haven't grown any and haven't gone away either.  All I can say is whatever

it is that my body needed to function normally it now appears to be getting

from this 'therapy'.



OK, NOW you can all start with the name calling.  I'm open to hear whatever

you all have to say about it, but keep in mind I've only lurked for 24 hours

and I'm unaware of any other 'threads' on the subject as well as the

backgrounds of most of the listmembers.  I guess I'm looking for possible

side effects that could result from these herbs and the frequency of

consuming them, and any alternatives I haven't considered, so have at it!



(p.s.  I'm prone to headaches and can't consider many herbal therapies for

that reason.)



Anyone?





                                                   o o

Denise

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction...

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:18:22 GMT

--------

> What I've come up

> with is to use tinctures of Damiana and Angelica drops in an equal amounts

> in water - taking them three times a day (eight hours apart) every day in

> order to maintain the same level in my system (could be smaller doses and

> closer together to be more accurate about it, but no time to keep up with

> that!).



The last thing you need is more stimulants. X the damiana.



>I also am taking a small dosage of kelp twice daily.  I haven't

> changed my diet otherwise.  And yes - I drink coffee.



Stop the coffee. I wouldn't even begin to treat you for this complaint if you

drink coffee and were unwilling to stop.



Fibroids result from a few different pathological processes, but mainly they

are due to Stagnation of Blood. This umbrella complaint is associated with

stimulant use, lack of rest, lack of balanced exercise, and imbalances of

spirit that are fostered by this society, by this time period, and by

stimulants.



One of my primary complaints with coffee is that it forces your spirit to the

surface. This is a 'no foreplay' approach to life that is, absent family

needs for self-sacrifice or some art to die for, utterly without merit.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction...

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:03:30 GMT

--------

> Wouldn't shark cartilage be appropriate now to shrink  the tumors?  Has

> anyone seen a study on fibroids.  I've got  a few others but not on this

one

> in particular.



The shark cartilage industry is raping the oceans. That is the fact. In many

areas, sharks are being overhunted to a point where our apparent desire for

this entrepreneurially sold nonsense will be responsible for destroying whole

ecosystems.



There are other, renewable options, and it is our duty to rely on THEM.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction...

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:13:56 GMT

--------

> Ok Paul - I bite.  What are the renewable resources that would help.  So far

> its the closest one I've come up with.  But I am new to herbs, and just

> getting into Chinese medicine (just finished an acupuncture class at NIH).

>

> Give me a hint where to look and I'll do the homework.

>

> Kay



Well, for one thing, calf cartilage is very similar. But if we are talking

about fibroids, well, there are many plant therapies. It requires a

diagnosis, and then a prescription of the proper Chinese herbal formula, as

well as lifestyle changes as needed.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction...

From: "Sandow, Kay" <KSANDOW@HQ.ROW.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:22:00 -0500

--------

Wouldn't shark cartilage be appropriate now to shrink  the tumors?  Has

anyone seen a study on fibroids.  I've got  a few others but not on this one

in particular.



Kay

ksandow@hq.row.com

 ----------

From: Medicinal and Aromatic Plants discussion list

To: HERB

Subject: A long winded introduction...

Date: Wednesday, January 22, 1997 5:34PM



Hi all,



What an interesting list!  I like spice, and it looks like there's plenty

here.  I wanted to introduce myself as my name is Denise and would like to

make sure you all know the difference in the spellings (Denice/Denise), so

you can call the right one names...  or whatever!  (hi, Denice!)



I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan near Marquette.  I relocated here

from Denver, Colorado about 3 years ago.  I currently work for the Post

Office and have very little time for anything else at the moment, including

my husband, daughter and two labs.  My daughter is 12, my husband is 47 and

I'm 39 (really!).  I've been studying our native herbs off and on about 16

years and have absolutely no knowledge of Chinese herbology as it's proven

tough enough to remember all the varying names of the local weedery!  I hope

to expand my knowledge base on both, and whatever else there is to learn

here.



I'll spit out my major physical ailment as eventually it'll be discussed by

someone on the list if not me, as many of us are female or are close to

females in some way shape or form.  I have "fibroid tumors" in my uterus.

(blush)



The textbook explanation of the condition is that the muscles in the lining

of the uterus for some unknown reason ball up into little hard nodules

forming a group of nodules resembling grapes.  The individual nodules then

grow larger and cause all kinds of side effects which I wont bring up at the

moment.  This is supposedly a simi-"normal" experience for an aging woman.

I don't buy it. They also say it's apparently from too much estrogen being

produced, again, I don't buy it.  They are 'usually' non cancerous, but can

evolve into it.  ???  (What is that?)



The 'medical community' says I have to live with it until it gets so out of

control that they can then justify a hysterectomy.  I say take the thing now

if that's where it's going to end up, and spare me the many years of

suffering.  But then, they won't do that either, it's not natural to be so

young and live without the resulting hormones.  That darn estrogen is still

necessary even though my body is supposedly having an allergic reaction of

some kind to it!



So MY reaction to it all was to look to herbs for some help with the

symptoms since the cause is much harder to determine.  What I've come up

with is to use tinctures of Damiana and Angelica drops in an equal amounts

in water - taking them three times a day (eight hours apart) every day in

order to maintain the same level in my system (could be smaller doses and

closer together to be more accurate about it, but no time to keep up with

that!).  I also am taking a small dosage of kelp twice daily.  I haven't

changed my diet otherwise.  And yes - I drink coffee.



I've done a lot of research on the herbs themselves as well as the medical

problem and either the information available is too sketchy or it's too

technical.  I'm not a scientist, but I would like to understand all the

processes that the herbs are affecting with more detail than most herb books

are able to provide, and without the explicit yet incomplete chemical

terminologies expressed in the available medical information.



Within three months of starting this regime I became a normally functioning

human being with no symptoms being exhibited, except for a((n) apparently)

normal life cycle completing itself instead of an abnormal one.  The tumors

haven't grown any and haven't gone away either.  All I can say is whatever

it is that my body needed to function normally it now appears to be getting

from this 'therapy'.



OK, NOW you can all start with the name calling.  I'm open to hear whatever

you all have to say about it, but keep in mind I've only lurked for 24 hours

and I'm unaware of any other 'threads' on the subject as well as the

backgrounds of most of the listmembers.  I guess I'm looking for possible

side effects that could result from these herbs and the frequency of

consuming them, and any alternatives I haven't considered, so have at it!



(p.s.  I'm prone to headaches and can't consider many herbal therapies for

that reason.)



Anyone?





                                                   o o

Denise

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction...

From: "Sandow, Kay" <KSANDOW@HQ.ROW.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:10:00 -0500

--------

Ok Paul - I bite.  What are the renewable resources that would help.  So far

its the closest one I've come up with.  But I am new to herbs, and just

getting into Chinese medicine (just finished an acupuncture class at NIH).



Give me a hint where to look and I'll do the homework.



Kay

ksandow@hq.row.com

 ----------

From: Medicinal and Aromatic Plants discussion list

To: HERB

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction...

Date: Thursday, January 23, 1997 2:29PM



> Wouldn't shark cartilage be appropriate now to shrink  the tumors?  Has

> anyone seen a study on fibroids.  I've got  a few others but not on this

one

> in particular.



The shark cartilage industry is raping the oceans. That is the fact. In many

areas, sharks are being overhunted to a point where our apparent desire for

this entrepreneurially sold nonsense will be responsible for destroying

whole

ecosystems.



There are other, renewable options, and it is our duty to rely on THEM.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction...

From: Annette Greco <AGRECO4391@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:38:42 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-23 14:07:08 EST, you write:



<< Fibroids result from a few different pathological processes, but mainly

they

 are due to Stagnation of Blood. This umbrella complaint is associated with

 stimulant use, lack of rest, lack of balanced exercise, and imbalances of

 spirit that are fostered by this society, by this time period, and by

 stimulants.

  >>



I just had a myomectomy (fibroid removal surgery) in November.  One fibroid

was removed, another was not (couldn't reach it).  Prior to surgery, I felt

lousy.  After surgery, even though I still have one fibroid, I feel great.  I

cut way back on stimulants (unfortunately, still have one cup of coffee each

day but no other caffeine),  am getting 8 hours of sleep a night (whereas I

was really pushing myself before), am walking to keep fit, eating much

better, taking vitamins, and have generally changed the way I view life.  I

refuse to let stress get the better of me.



For me, a different attitude has greatly improved how I feel.



Annette





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction...

From: Denise Brown <deniseb@UP.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:50:58 -0500

--------

Paul writes:

>This umbrella complaint is associated with

> stimulant use, lack of rest, lack of balanced exercise, and imbalances of

> spirit that are fostered by this society, by this time period, and by

> stimulants.

>

Annette writes:

>I just had a myomectomy (fibroid removal surgery) in November.  One fibroid

>was removed, another was not (couldn't reach it).  Prior to surgery, I felt

>lousy.  After surgery, even though I still have one fibroid, I feel great.  I

>cut way back on stimulants (unfortunately, still have one cup of coffee each

>day but no other caffeine),  am getting 8 hours of sleep a night (whereas I

>was really pushing myself before), am walking to keep fit, eating much

>better, taking vitamins, and have generally changed the way I view life.  I

>refuse to let stress get the better of me.



My turn:



Thanks, I know that a lifestyle change is needed, not only for the fibroids,

but for my whole health! I do drink three cups of coffee in the morning, I

get up at 2:30 am and get home at 6:30 pm so I need the help as I drive a

long way to work everyday too.  I don't get much sleep, I don't have time

for productive exercise (work doesn't really count!), I don't have time for

meditating or alone time for centering my spirit.  I'm working on it though!

Working on getting a new job!



Paul - I fit into all the aforementioned categories!  How do stimulants

affect our physiology in a way to promote fibroid tumor growth?

















                                                   o o

Denise

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Info on DHEA

From: Denice Gherardini <DDenice@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:42:48 -0500

--------

The most abundant hormone found in the bloodstream, dehydroepiandrosterone

(DHEA) is produced by the adrenal glands, which sit atop the kidneys. Much

like other hormones known to have anti-aging properties DHEA is produced

abundantly during youth, with production peaking around 25, after this

production wanes.



Research has shown that DHEA has many functions in the body pertaining to

health and longevity. Amoung other things it helps generate sex hormones,

increases percentage of muscle mass, decrease body fat, and stimulates bone

deposition, thereby helping to prevent osteoporosis. As the levels gets lower

we are more likely to get age-related diseases. DHEA is lostly made in

labrotories from substances extracted from wild yams, the most common

substance being diosgenim.



DHEA therapy should be undertaken with caution as some doctors believe that

the additional doses of DHEA supress the bodies natural ability to synthesize

the hormone. Animal studies have also indicated that high doses can lead to

liver damage for this reason it is very important to take additional

supplements of the antioxidants vitamins C & E, to prevent oxidative damage

to the liver.



Hope this helps, anything let me know!

Denice





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Info on DHEA

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:18:08 GMT

--------

> DHEA therapy should be undertaken with caution as some doctors believe that

> the additional doses of DHEA supress the bodies natural ability to

synthesize

> the hormone. Animal studies have also indicated that high doses can lead to

> liver damage for this reason it is very important to take additional

> supplements of the antioxidants vitamins C & E, to prevent tive e

> to ver.



DHEA supplementation is drug hormone therapy, and is an ill-considered

approach to health care. Generally speaking, this sort of therapy appeals to

people who are living either lives of imbalance and are facing accelerated

aging, or Yang constitution people who are looking to extend their

aggressively-sought experiencings.



Leaving off the idea that one is supposed to become more etheric as one ages,

but the emphasis on Yang-Boosting therapy to the ignorance and ignoring of

Yin-Boosting therapy puts you back about 1,200 years in the history of

Chinese therapy. Long, long ago, the Chinese discovered that it is the

__YIN__, not the Yang, that should be built up to enhance youthfulness and

ease aging pressures. Supplementing the Yang is an approach that will tend to

harden the individual's Qi, perhaps diverting their spirit life in an

untoward manner.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Info on DHEA

From: Joan Kite <JoanKite@ADNC.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:31:56 -0800

--------

>Leaving off the idea that one is supposed to become more etheric as one ages,

>but the emphasis on Yang-Boosting therapy to the ignorance and ignoring of

>Yin-Boosting therapy puts you back about 1,200 years in the history of

>Chinese therapy. Long, long ago, the Chinese discovered that it is the

>__YIN__, not the Yang, that should be built up to enhance youthfulness and

>ease aging pressures.



Paul,



Could you provide the list examples of Yin-Boosting therapy for those

interested in Chinese medicine?



Thanks,

Joan



*****************************************************

Joan Kite

Editor, writer, wordsmith

Jezebel Ink

"Welcome to the fin de siecle."

*****************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Fruit, was Re(2): HERB Digest - 21 Jan 1997 to 22

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:17:21 GMT

--------

> What health problem(s) might I be masking?



Weak Digestion, imbalanced Liver, tired Kidneys....



>What is the next logical

> step?  If I stop eating fruit, will the undesirable effects

> (indigestion, tiredness) go away after a period of time, or is there

> something else I need to do?



It's a start, yes.



>If liver Qi is attacking my stomach, how

> do I put it where it should be?



It won't get into the Stomach if you don't skip and delay meals, use

stimulants, or eat fruit.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fruit, was Re(2): HERB Digest - 21 Jan 1997 to 22

From: Jana Lhotka <csc90a02@DVC.EDU>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:00:43 -0800

--------

Why shouldn't one eat fruit? Because of the high sugar content? Excuse my

asking, What's Qi?



Jana M. Lhotka

DVC student, Pleasant Hill, California.







On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Paul Iannone wrote:



> > What health problem(s) might I be masking?

>

> Weak Digestion, imbalanced Liver, tired Kidneys....

>

> >What is the next logical

> > step?  If I stop eating fruit, will the undesirable effects

> > (indigestion, tiredness) go away after a period of time, or is there

> > something else I need to do?

>

> It's a start, yes.

>

> >If liver Qi is attacking my stomach, how

> > do I put it where it should be?

>

> It won't get into the Stomach if you don't skip and delay meals, use

> stimulants, or eat fruit.

>

> Paul

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:17:49 GMT

--------

> But I find the main difference between Eastern and Western herbal

> treatments to be more in the realm of diagnosis rather than specific

> treatment.



Not just diagnosis, but a holistic system of physiology, which is a truly

critical difference. The other major difference is the use of an integrated

formula theory.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: East is East and West is West

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:30:51 -0900

--------

Having researched many aspects of herbal medicine for many years, I am

continually amazed at the incredible amount of information available and am

pleased that I never have learned it all.  There's always more to learn.

One problem with herbal medicine is the different approaches.  Although, in

reality, it may not be a problem at all but a blessing.

   Western herbalism has various contributions, some from middle eastern and

eastern sources and remains a sometimes conflicting source of information.

Not necessarily of the herbs themselves but in the way they are administered

and when.

   Eastern herbalism (I speak mainly of Chinese) seems to have a less

confused system, although there are a few apparent diversions of thought.

Perhaps there has been more in the way of political upheaval in European

politics that contribute to ups and downs in carrying on the knowledge.  I

am not an expert in history but there seems to be a more constant political

situation in China.  I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong.  That's OK.

   But I find the main difference between Eastern and Western herbal

treatments to be more in the realm of diagnosis rather than specific

treatment.  IMHO, the Chinese doctors of medicine outshine all other medical

approaches (including conventional) with respect to the method of diagnosis.

The ensuing treatments with herbs and other things are often startlingly

effective.

  I originally thought that I could learn Chinese diagnosis and apply it to

my Western herbal knowledge.  I am finding that difficult.  There are

parallels but the little I have learned shows that it would be hard to meld

the two without some major overhaul.

  Western herbalism is often short of success because it frequently relies

on treatment of symptoms without looking farther for cause.  Although, I

know reputable western herbalists who do an excellent job of going beyond

symptoms.  Too many western herbals are nothing more than books full of

bandaids.  I've seen books that list a disease or symptom and just put forth

a list of twenty or so herbs that supposedly treat it with no attempt to

specify method of treatment or the fine art of using the correct herb for

what ails you.

  I have a neighbor with one of these books and she keeps calling me up and

telling me what her book says.  Often, the herbs she trys are inappropriate

for the problem in the way she wants to use them.

  I like Western herbs because I can go out in the woods and pick them

fresh.  I believe in using the herbs in your own area for the most part.

Why spend money for expensive imported herbs when one in your own back yard

will do just as well.  But I've had experiences where Chinese herbs have

done what I couldn't do.  I don't believe one is more correct than another.

There is a place for Western herbalism (even if it seemingly contradicts

Chinese methodology), Chinese herbalism (even if it contradicts everyone

else), and even conventional medicine.  There's occasions where each

approach shines.

  It pays to learn about all methods rather than confine yourself to one.

At least learn enough to weigh things in your own mind.  There comes a time

for every practitioner when a referral is in order.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:26:42 EST

--------

>  I originally thought that I could learn Chinese diagnosis and apply

>it to

>my Western herbal knowledge.  I am finding that difficult.  There are

>parallels but the little I have learned shows that it would be hard to

>meld

>the two without some major overhaul.



I think the fundamental issue here is paradigm shift, and getting tangled

up when you switch one to the other- it doesn't work, especially when one

is (as I am) indoctrinated in Western thought.  My  impression is this-



Chinese medicine when separated from it's religious aspects (sometimes

hard to do ) shows genius in it's perception of disease, especially

chronic type cases. I believe the key reason this came to be was the

hot/cold framework (metaphorically speaking) as it's foundation. (I am

attempting to speak in "westernese" here) .  This is a given. The *whys*

behind this is what intrigues me. Other ancient societies (Greek and

Hebrew) held the belief that the "life of the flesh is in the blood".

When we merge the two beliefs to see that when that which is Cold is in

need of more blood,and that which is Hot is hoarding blood unto itself,

thus "stealing"  life from the other organs, it can be easier to diagnose

and to choose which herbs to use.  When you look at Eastern-Western

herbalism, you have to find out  the*whys* and which  herbs were used out

of tradition (not always a good thing!) , superstition, or based on a

religious belief.  (these herbs may or may not be helpful, but like the

lobelia story, may have a lot of erroneous gossip- negative or positive-

attached to it)  Try to follow the "whys" back as far as you can.

Chinese medicine has a relatively  good history of "whys" to follow,

where as Western herbalism does not.  Does that mean our herbs are any

different? Nope. Just our herbalism.  Unfortunately it lacks

(traditionally) the integrity of Chinese medicine probably in fact

*because* of it's blurry paradigm(s).  Fortunately, there are our own

geniuses -George Washington Carter, Thompson, and perhaps  Michael,

Howie, and even Paul  ! ; )   here in the West that are working towards

that goal of using *our* herbs to manage *our* unique illnesses.



 Just my 2 cents- couldn't *paradigm* you know. : )



Kim in VA





>  I like Western herbs because I can go out in the woods and pick them

>fresh.  I believe in using the herbs in your own area for the most

>part.

>Why spend money...







>  It pays to learn about all methods rather than confine yourself to

>one.



>**********************************************************************

>* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

>*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

>*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

>* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

>**********************************************************************

>* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

>**********************************************************************

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:04:25 GMT

--------

> Chinese medicine when separated from it's religious aspects (sometimes

> hard to do ) shows genius in it's perception of disease, especially

> chronic type cases.



'Religion' is not a very good term for the spirit context of Chinese healing.

I suppose what you really mean is 'nonrational' aspects.



>I believe the key reason this came to be was the

> hot/cold framework (metaphorically speaking) as it's foundation. (I am

> attempting to speak in "westernese" here) .



That is not an uncommon foundation. Hellenic herbalism, Unani, Ayurveda,

etc.,  were founded on the same sort of principles of observation and

theorization. There is no way that a sober assessment would localize on this

reason as THE reason Chinese healing is a superior art.



>This is a given. The *whys*

> behind this is what intrigues me. Other ancient societies (Greek and

> Hebrew) held the belief that the "life of the flesh is in the blood".

> When we merge the two beliefs to see that when that which is Cold is in

> need of more blood,and that which is Hot is hoarding blood unto itself,

> thus "stealing"  life from the other organs, it can be easier to diagnose

> and to choose which herbs to use.



While that is an interesting thought, it is entirely inapplicable to Chinese

therapy. Some Channels have more Blood than others...some Organs have

distinct relationships with the Blood, but this particular idea you state

doesn't exist in Chinese therapy.



>When you look at Eastern-Western

> herbalism, you have to find out  the*whys* and which  herbs were used out

> of tradition (not always a good thing!) , superstition, or based on a

> religious belief.



Those are conventional medicine myths. The bulk of Chinese herbal therapy is

utterly reliable. Tens of thousands of tests later, 'you' don't have to

particularly worry about efficacy!



>(these herbs may or may not be helpful, but like the

> lobelia story, may have a lot of erroneous gossip- negative or positive-

> attached to it)  Try to follow the "whys" back as far as you can.

> Chinese medicine has a relatively  good history of "whys" to follow,

> where as Western herbalism does not.



BECAUSE a salient rational system wasn't derived, due to a range of

historical reasons.



People originally knew plants 'directly.' But for the generalization of a

system of therapy, principles and all the rational equipment of thought and

language have to be designed, so that the system can be taught and studied.

Otherwise, plant healing remains part of the armamentarium of the initiate

healers we in the West most often call 'shamans,' and cannot be externalized

to a mass of acolyte healers to serve society at large.



>Does that mean our herbs are any

> different? Nope. Just our herbalism.  Unfortunately it lacks

> (traditionally) the integrity of Chinese medicine probably in fact

> *because* of it's blurry paradigm(s).  Fortunately, there are our own

> geniuses -George Washington Carter, Thompson, and perhaps  Michael,

> Howie, and even Paul  ! ; )   here in the West that are working towards

> that goal of using *our* herbs to manage *our* unique illnesses.



Our illnesses AREN'T unique. Integrating what is useful in the West with the

systematic use of plants in the East is a good idea---BUT, the fact remains

that much of the plant life in Chinese healing was accumulated by EMPIRE. As

the current empire, we have the wherewithall to haul plants from far, far

away to our shores for use by our people. And where reliable, efficient cures

are needed, utilizing those foreign time-tested plant combinations is the

natural option, since we CAN.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:16:21 EST

--------

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:04:25 GMT Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

writes:

>> Chinese medicine when separated from it's religious aspects

>(sometimes

>> hard to do ) shows genius in it's perception of disease, especially

>> chronic type cases.

>

>'Religion' is not a very good term for the spirit context of Chinese

>healing.

>I suppose what you really mean is 'nonrational' aspects.



Good point.  I guess that was really tacky.  I hate it when my spiritual

life is referred to as religion.  Ok, a young lawer once told me that I

should always define terms before entering into a debate (which I'm not

intending to do mind you.. )  and "nonrational aspects"  was not exactly

what I meant.   Supernatural aspects might be closer, which are not

necessarily "nonrational" IMO.

>

>>I believe the key reason this came to be was the

>> hot/cold framework (metaphorically speaking) as it's foundation. (I

>am

>> attempting to speak in "westernese" here) .

>

>That is not an uncommon foundation. Hellenic herbalism, Unani,

>Ayurveda,

>etc.,  were founded on the same sort of principles of observation and

>theorization. There is no way that a sober assessment would localize

>on this

>reason as THE reason Chinese healing is a superior art.



Well, *one* of the key reasons in my book, but then again, my assessments

have not always been sober ones  . Sometimes they're quite intoxicated.

I'll have to check.  ; )  What might be your assessment as to why?





>> When we merge the two beliefs to see that when that which is Cold is

>in

>> need of more blood,and that which is Hot is hoarding blood unto

>itself,

>> thus "stealing"  life from the other organs, it can be easier to

>diagnose

>> and to choose which herbs to use.

>

>While that is an interesting thought, it is entirely inapplicable to

>Chinese

>therapy. Some Channels have more Blood than others...some Organs have

>distinct relationships with the Blood, but this particular idea you

>state

>doesn't exist in Chinese therapy.



Actually, I was neither trying to apply this to Chinese therapy nor state

that this idea existed in Chinese therapy.  This was simply an

impression, and has been helpful for me in treatment of my clients.

But could you define Blood? Is this a metaphor or the red stuff?



(snip)

>> Chinese medicine has a relatively  good history of "whys" to follow,

>> where as Western herbalism does not.



I agree but wish it wasn't true.



>

>BECAUSE a salient rational system wasn't derived, due to a range of

>historical reasons.



This doesn't mean a system *can't* be derived.



>

>People originally knew plants 'directly.'



Many do so today, and at other times in the past, without modalities and

"shamanism".





>

>>  here in the West that are working towards

>> that goal of using *our* herbs to manage *our* unique illnesses.

>

>Our illnesses AREN'T unique.



I beg to differ.

Unique to our time period.  Unique to the Western world, although the

East is sadly catching up.

What about...

 Stress and Eating patterns that can't be found in the tragic quantity

that you will see here in America (that's where I  live ) *our*

illnesses-  illnesses that we as healers have to deal with that can be

more complex than history has had to deal with before, AIDS, Soldiers

effected by chemicals, babies born addicted to crack, people obese beyond

reason.

ADD, Super-strep, and other horrors from the abuse of antibiotics, and

vaccinations.  One can't be empirically trained in these twisted

sicknesses- at least not today.

> As the current empire, we have the wherewithall to haul plants from far

>away to our shores for use by our people. And where reliable,

>efficient cures

>are needed, utilizing those foreign time-tested plant combinations is

>the

>natural option, since we CAN.

>

>Paul

>



I don't know, just because I CAN do something does it justify doing it?

As the current empire, do we not also have the wherewithal to learn and

develop our own paradigms, and healing modalities, like you said,  for

the teaching of those called to healing but needing that which is

unspoken to be spoken and have form. And that in our *own* culture,

diverse as it is, with our *own* plants.  It is better stewardship,  of

our plants, of their plants,  and of our people,( who if around long

enough, will undoubtedly have a decent herbal history to draw upon.)



Kim in VA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:18:23 GMT

--------

> Anita said something which made me think:  about using and selecting herbs

> which are close to home.    Is it a possiblity that herbs, say, from China,

> could cause a negative (or toxic) reaction to those living on the other

> side of the world and vice-versa?



Absolutely not. Chinese herbs have been in use in the West for well over

three hundred years. No such reports.



>Could the humble stinging nettle (Urtica

> dioica), for example, have a strongly adverse effect on those from other

> countries?   We normally adapt to our own surroundings and survive on

> home-grown plants and veges (especially if in a farming area like myself).

>  How do we deal with unfamiliar herbs etc?  Just a query.



Your 'surroundings' plantwise are really a question of climatic zone, not

region. Most foodstuffs are temperate climate plants, so wherever you go in

the world, a tomato is a tomato.



Did you know that 'catsup' is Cantonese for 'Eggplant sauce'? It was invented

in San Francisco by Chinese cooks who were adapting their dishes to the

conveniently available plants of the West. Tomatoes and eggplant plants look

very similar, so the tomato was called 'cat,' eggplant, when the plants were

first shipped in trade to Canton by the Portuguese.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: East is East and West is West

From: Penny Hemans <pennyh@THENET.CO.UK>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:29:34 +0000

--------

Anita said something which made me think:  about using and selecting herbs

which are close to home.    Is it a possiblity that herbs, say, from China,

could cause a negative (or toxic) reaction to those living on the other

side of the world and vice-versa?  Could the humble stinging nettle (Urtica

dioica), for example, have a strongly adverse effect on those from other

countries?   We normally adapt to our own surroundings and survive on

home-grown plants and veges (especially if in a farming area like myself).

 How do we deal with unfamiliar herbs etc?  Just a query.



Thoughts anyone?



Thanks

Penny





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:46:39 GMT

--------

> >> Chinese medicine when separated from it's religious aspects

> >(sometimes

> >> hard to do ) shows genius in it's perception of disease, especially

> >> chronic type cases.



Supernatural aspects might be closer, which are not

> necessarily "nonrational" IMO.



Chinese healing is just fine with its 'supernatural' aspects left in, then.

These spirit aspects enhance diagnosis, to the point that a true seer can

define an illness on sight. So what was your point?



> >>I believe the key reason this came to be was the

> >> hot/cold framework (metaphorically speaking) as it's foundation.

> >

> >There is no way that a sober assessment would localize

> >on this

> >reason as THE reason Chinese healing is a superior art.

>

> Well, *one* of the key reasons in my book[snip] What might be your

assessment as to why?



Rational therapy, formula herbalism, a flexible physiology and

pathophysiology linked to that therapy, knowledge of Qi Channels and their

matrix, and how they impact disease, knowledge of supplementation therapies,

understanding of seasonal and climatic factors, etc.



> >> When we merge the two beliefs to see that when that which is Cold is

> >in

> >> need of more blood,and that which is Hot is hoarding blood unto

> >itself,

> >> thus "stealing"  life from the other organs, it can be easier to

> >diagnose

> >> and to choose which herbs to use.



> Actually, I was neither trying to apply this to Chinese therapy nor state

> that this idea existed in Chinese therapy.  This was simply an

> impression, and has been helpful for me in treatment of my clients.

> But could you define Blood? Is this a metaphor or the red stuff?



It is an 'entity,' not a metaphor. Blood is more than red stuff, since it

encompasses the fluid aspect of the Qi as well. Blood is that aspect of a

person that substantiates their spirit and Qi...it is the part of you that is

formless yet alive. People with sufficient and fluent Blood are happy and at

ease.



> >BECAUSE a salient rational system wasn't derived, due to a range of

> >historical reasons.

>

> This doesn't mean a system *can't* be derived.



Well, yeah, it pretty much does, since there are no new archaic worldviews

available. Been there, done that.



> >Our illnesses AREN'T unique.

>

> I beg to differ.

> Unique to our time period.  Unique to the Western world, although the

> East is sadly catching up.



They are not unique, I repeat. Illnesses may differ from time to time, but

that does not make them unique East to West.



> What about...

>  Stress and Eating patterns that can't be found in the tragic quantity

> that you will see here in America (that's where I  live ) *our*

> illnesses-  illnesses that we as healers have to deal with that can be

> more complex than history has had to deal with before, AIDS, Soldiers

> effected by chemicals, babies born addicted to crack, people obese beyond

> reason.



That still doesn't make them 'our' illnesses, as if therapies can't be

designed using Chinese herbs to treat those illnesses, designed on the very

same principles known from days of yore. Such therapies are being designed as

we speak, with some considerable success. These illnesses do not require

local plants to treat them...they require diagnosis and rational therapy.



> > As the current empire, we have the wherewithall to haul plants from far

> >away to our shores for use by our people. And where reliable,

> >efficient cures

> >are needed, utilizing those foreign time-tested plant combinations is

> >the

> >natural option, since we CAN.

> >

> >Paul

> >

>

> I don't know, just because I CAN do something does it justify doing it?



Yep.



> As the current empire, do we not also have the wherewithal to learn and

> develop our own paradigms, and healing modalities, like you said,  for

> the teaching of those called to healing but needing that which is

> unspoken to be spoken and have form. And that in our *own* culture,

> diverse as it is, with our *own* plants.



Our culture doesn't have sufficient diversity left for that task. There is

simply no more time for such archaic evolution.



>It is better stewardship,  of

> our plants, of their plants,  and of our people,( who if around long

> enough, will undoubtedly have a decent herbal history to draw upon.)

>

> Kim in VA



Stewardship is too big an issue. People need curing, and they need it now.

While it is possible to shoehorn local plants onto Chinese healing, it is not

reasonable to expect to elaborate a new system in this time period. There is

no time, no energy, no great insight for that to work. And no great seers to

make the fundamental leaps necessary to invent a new paradigm.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:38:24 -0500

--------

In <607502143.12687850@lamg.com>, on 01/24/97 at 12:46 AM,

   Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> said:



>Stewardship is too big an issue. People need curing, and they need it

>now. While it is possible to shoehorn local plants onto Chinese healing,

>it is not reasonable to expect to elaborate a new system in this time

>period. There is no time, no energy, no great insight for that to work.



There is plenty of time and energy and insight available. You have become

the  Chinese Medicine establishment. You talk about new ideas and

possibilities, the way the AMA talks about Chinese Medicine.



>And no great seers to make the fundamental leaps necessary to invent a

>new paradigm.



There are no great seers that you are aware of. But then, are you open to

that? There is already a new paradigm available. It has already been shown

to you, but you have not seen it. It is unavailable to you, because you

believe you have all the answers already. The paradigm you espouse is

inflexible. Inflexibility regarding the paradigm of you belief gives you a

platform to defend, and an elimination of new knowledge. It also

ultimately leads to self-defeat.



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:22:23 EST

--------

>Chinese healing is just fine with its 'supernatural' aspects left in,

>then.

>These spirit aspects enhance diagnosis, to the point that a true seer

>can

>define an illness on sight. So what was your point?



My spiritual orientation leads away from the path you are following, and

would be  probably highly offensive to you,but requires me to separate

TCM from it's supernatural aspects,  because of unholiness- I'm required

to keep myself clean.  No disrespect intended.





>It is an 'entity,' not a metaphor. Blood is more than red stuff, since

>it

>encompasses the fluid aspect of the Qi as well. Blood is that aspect

>of a

>person that substantiates their spirit and Qi...it is the part of you

>that is

>formless yet alive. People with sufficient and fluent Blood are happy

>and at

>ease.



This still sounds very close to " the life of the flesh residing in the

blood"

-  close enough to give it at least a second glance.  BTW, I think

Michael Moore kind of touches on this train of thought in his  works on

herbal energetics.





>> >are needed, utilizing those foreign time-tested plant combinations

>is

>> >the

>> >natural option, since we CAN.

>> >

>> >Paul

>> >

>>

>> I don't know, just because I CAN do something does it justify doing

>it?

>

>Yep.



Faulty logic.  Please expound for me.



>Our culture doesn't have sufficient diversity left for that task.



Our culture could not BE more diverse.





>There is

>simply no more time for such archaic evolution.



Who's to tell how much time we have.  We've always had sick people, and

still have found ways to heal and learn about healing simultaneously-

We'll just have to triage, if you will. Perhaps that is where the

shoe-horning  will have to come in.







>Stewardship is too big an issue. People need curing, and they need it

>now.



People have always needed curing.  Stewardship is not a big enough issue.

I wish to be found faithful.





>While it is possible to shoehorn local plants onto Chinese healing, it

>is not

>reasonable to expect to elaborate a new system in this time period.

>There is

>no time, no energy, no great insight for that to work. And no great

>seers to

>make the fundamental leaps necessary to invent a new paradigm.



Perhaps you are right, and that would be sad.  But I don't think there

will be any stopping those who do see and who have the ability to hear

what the plants and the Spirit are speaking to them about healing *today*

 and that  in their own back yards.



Kim in VA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:33:05 GMT

--------

> Hmmm, although I know of no such instances there may be something to this.

> There are definately genetic propensities for allergies to substances like

> alcohol, milk, cheese, etc.



Rarely. Although many people think that Asians cannot digest milk products,

the fact is that historically they had no problem at all. The Chinese had

divisions of government SPECIFICALLY for maintaining horse and sheep yoghurt

purity, for instance.



> there is a school of thought that herbs growing

> in certain areas indicate which diseases are common there.



Well, that is quite a stretch, given that most herbs are quite a bit more

generalized in their distribution than the few casual coincidences would

attest.



>For example,

> there are many herbs in my area traditionally used for bronchial and lung

> diseases. Alaska has a high incidence of TB and lung diseases.  Is it

> coincidence?



Yes. I'll bet many of those problems have, after all, been carried there by

all the Southerners who have moved there, from humid climates. As regard TB,

its spread is more likely reflective of HUMAN crowding during winter, not the

plantlife.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:51:10 GMT

--------

> There is plenty of time and energy and insight available. You have become

> the  Chinese Medicine establishment. You talk about new ideas and

> possibilities, the way the AMA talks about Chinese Medicine.



No, I talk like someone who has made a concerted study of these issues.

Others, like Bob Flaws and Michael Tierra, have also come to the very same

conclusion. It took 3,000 years to fully develop Chinese herbalism...there is

no way we are going to duplicate that effort at this point, nor need we.



Your study of Chinese herbalism is what? Your concerted involvement in

assessing herbal traditions is what? The basis of your comments is what? The

form of your healing work is what? Out with it!



> >And no great seers to make the fundamental leaps necessary to invent a

> >new paradigm.

>

> There are no great seers that you are aware of.



Not just 'great seers,' but great seers who can elaborate an entirely new

paradigm. You have evidence of such a development? Well, share it then! Let's

hear it. WHAT are you talking about?



>But then, are you open to

> that? There is already a new paradigm available. It has already been shown

> to you, but you have not seen it. It is unavailable to you, because you

> believe you have all the answers already. The paradigm you espouse is

> inflexible. Inflexibility regarding the paradigm of you belief gives you a

> platform to defend, and an elimination of new knowledge. It also

> ultimately leads to self-defeat.

>

> James



Again, your projections about what I believe are silly...you have no data. We

are discussing an almost entirely inflexible issue, namely illness. Illness

doesn't yield to faith very effectively, and healing has never been as

reliable as you seem to believe with your callow assertions of a totality of

knowledge that can be imparted to persons so that they can heal themselves.



'New' knowledge in the field of PLANT MEDICINE? No, you are talking about new

knowledge at the level of healing, perhaps. But the issue here is PLANT based

medicine, not all the intricacies of faith healing. I think you have the

wrong list.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:22:38 -0500

--------

In <607502143.15447556@lamg.com>, on 01/24/97 at 03:51 PM,

   Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> said:



>No, I talk like someone who has made a concerted study of these issues.

>Others, like Bob Flaws and Michael Tierra, have also come to the very

>same conclusion. It took 3,000 years to fully develop Chinese

>herbalism...there is no way we are going to duplicate that effort at this

>point, nor need we.



Your problem is that you are coming to conclusions based on intellectual

pap. Your kind of "thinking"  certainly will not contribute to the new

paradigm. Chinese Herbalism is not yet fully developed. It does not always

work. It treats symptoms not causes. It has inherent in it the flaws

inherent to any bureaucracy. It will never be fully developed, because is

fundamental basis regarding healing is wrong. It is filled with incorrect

physical mechanics forged without regard structural study. It's half a

science. Though smidgens of truth are available in Chinese Herbalism, with

the incorrect basis, ALL OF CHINESE HERBALISM IS SUSPECT. You talk like

any other new age zombie, hooked on their particular brand of witchcraft



>Your study of Chinese herbalism is what? Your concerted involvement in

>assessing herbal traditions is what? The basis of your comments is what?

>The form of your healing work is what? Out with it!



The basis of my comments are self evident. Your above question are a bait

to defend, the bait is refused. My credentials are irrelevant as are

yours. My form of healing, is healing. I use herbs at times, always

showing the patient how they bring about the healing with the herb.



>Not just 'great seers,' but great seers who can elaborate an entirely new

>paradigm. You have evidence of such a development? Well, share it then!

>Let's hear it. WHAT are you talking about?



Sure, the system is laid out, and documented. For starters, the

fundamental aphorism that all disease is self-determined, and it supports

the structure that the individual believes in.



I have evidence. But, with out a change in attitude that I see as

receptive, you'll never see it. You are shouting down what is said before

its said. As it all flies right over your head. Truth is apparently too

simple for you to grock.





>Again, your projections about what I believe are silly...you have no

>data. We are discussing an almost entirely inflexible issue, namely

>illness. Illness doesn't yield to faith very effectively, and healing has

>never been as reliable as you seem to believe with your callow assertions

>of a totality of knowledge that can be imparted to persons so that they

>can heal themselves.



I have no difficulty bringing about results. Illness is flexable as

noodles, when you understand its basis. Healing with your mode is

unreliable, as stated above.



>'New' knowledge in the field of PLANT MEDICINE? No, you are talking about

>new knowledge at the level of healing, perhaps. But the issue here is

>PLANT based medicine, not all the intricacies of faith healing. I think

>you have the wrong list.



Faith healing? Not me. As I said before on other posts plant healing is a

prop. Merely the fact that I am refuting the validity of herbology makes

what I am saying pertinent to the list. Herbs don't heal. "Healers" don't

heal.





James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:56:08 GMT

--------

>Truth is apparently too simple for you to grock.



>I have no difficulty bringing about results. Illness is flexable as noodles,

when you

>understand its basis.



> Merely the fact that I am refuting the validity of herbology makes

> what I am saying pertinent to the list. Herbs don't heal. "Healers" don't

> heal.



Well, I think the question of which of us is most haughty has been resolved.

You not only have possession over all the keys of healing, though you don't

say a word about what that represents, but you have a comprehensive

noncategorical criticism of an entire branch of established healing. You even

consider it a 'bureaucracy.'



I cannot wait for you to heal all souls, so we can get on with being

immortal. This is not a forum on the outskirts of healing, but on the use of

plants medicinally, and not as props in your own fantasy of being Christ

Almighty.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:33:10 -0500

--------

In <607502143.16331507@lamg.com>, on 01/24/97 at 07:56 PM,

   Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> said:



>Well, I think the question of which of us is most haughty has been

>resolved. You not only have possession over all the keys of healing,

>though you don't say a word about what that represents, but you have a

>comprehensive noncategorical criticism of an entire branch of established

>healing. You even consider it a 'bureaucracy.'



Categorized criticism:



1. Chinese Herbalism is not yet fully developed.



2. It does not always work.



3. It treats symptoms not causes.



4. It is inflexible like any bureaucracy.



5. It will never be fully developed, because is fundamental basis

regarding healing is wrong.



6. It is filled with incorrect physical mechanics forged without regard

structural study. It's half a science.



7. Though smidgens of truth are available in Chinese Herbalism, with the

incorrect basis, ALL OF CHINESE HERBALISM IS SUSPECT.



You talk like any other new age zombie, hooked on their particular brand

of witchcraft



>I cannot wait for you to heal all souls, so we can get on with being

>immortal.



Are you immortal? Is your goal of healing physical imortality?



>This is not a forum on the outskirts of healing, but on the use

>of plants medicinally,



Herbs are on the outskirts of mainstream. Medical use of plants is not

mainstream ( at least in this country)



>and not as props in your own fantasy of being

>Christ Almighty.



Actually Paul, I see you as Christ Almighty hiding behind your confusion.



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:59:51 -0900

--------

At 06:29 PM 1/23/97 +0000, Penny Hemans wrote:

>Anita said something which made me think:  about using and selecting herbs

>which are close to home.    Is it a possiblity that herbs, say, from China,

>could cause a negative (or toxic) reaction to those living on the other

>side of the world and vice-versa?  Could the humble stinging nettle (Urtica

>dioica), for example, have a strongly adverse effect on those from other

>countries?   We normally adapt to our own surroundings and survive on

>home-grown plants and veges (especially if in a farming area like myself).

> How do we deal with unfamiliar herbs etc?  Just a query.

>

>Thoughts anyone?

>

>Thanks

>Penny

>

>

Hmmm, although I know of no such instances there may be something to this.

There are definately genetic propensities for allergies to substances like

alcohol, milk, cheese, etc.  there is a school of thought that herbs growing

in certain areas indicate which diseases are common there.  For example,

there are many herbs in my area traditionally used for bronchial and lung

diseases. Alaska has a high incidence of TB and lung diseases.  Is it

coincidence?

  However, I've used herbs from all over the world and have found nothing to

indicate localized toxicity.  That's not to say it doesn't exist.  Maybe

someone  else has thoughts on this.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:24:33 GMT

--------

> I have utmost respect for Chinese herbalism and am learning more all the

> time. I admit my ignorance.  How about the integration of Western herbs

into

> The Chinese format?  I would this this might deserve some research.  Who

> knows what we could come up with if a greater pharmacy of medicinal herbs

> was consulted.



This is specifically what is being proposed by authors such as Tierra and

Flaws. There are three major foci to this effort:



1) Identifying local plants that can be substituted for Chinese pharmacal

entities.



An obvious example would be the various local Berberis' in substitution for

Chinese Berberis'.



2) Identifying areas of weakness in the Chinese pharmacopeia and finding

local plants that would be useful to improve that collection.



An example here might be something like comfrey, as a topical application

especially. This also includes other healing system research...the use of

castor oil packs, for instance.



3) Identifying local plants that have characteristics unsuspected by Chinese

herbalism.



This is the most interesting, but most difficult area. Is Cat's Claw similar

to Chinese Uncarias? Is evening primrose unique as a source of

GLA-supplementation therapy?



This is an area that would be very interesting to toss around. But I don't

think it is too profitable to look at this from too generalist of a

standpoint...without Chinese therapeutics as a backbone, such an inclusionary

process would probably be absurdly complicated and impossible to verify.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:39:01 GMT

--------

> Categorized criticism:

>

> 1. Chinese Herbalism is not yet fully developed.



Chinese herbalism is fully developed by any standard that considers

functional development. It is a mature art.



> 2. It does not always work.



No system of healing always works, so this is an absurdly inflexible

standard.



> 3. It treats symptoms not causes.



Nonsense. This is a definitional game you play that has nothing to do with a

sober assessment of the meaning of 'holistic.' Chinese herbalism treats both

symptomology and cause, as is clear in assessments of longterm value of

treatment.



> 4. It is inflexible like any bureaucracy.



It has nothing to do with a bureaucracy, which is an absurd term to apply to

a system of healing as diverse and fluid as Chinese healing.



> 5. It will never be fully developed, because is fundamental basis

> regarding healing is wrong.



Further nonsense from the immaculate saint of the Church of the Illusion of

Illness. As an empirical system of cure, Chinese healing is superb for curing

most illnesses that result from nonconstitutional injuries, and for

strengthening and developing constitutions. As such, it is well developed, if

not 'fully' (whatever that means).



> 6. It is filled with incorrect physical mechanics forged without regard

> structural study. It's half a science.



That is a meaningless phrase since you don't define your terms. 'Structural

study'? What the hell is that? If you mean that Chinese healing anatomy

doesn't equate with conventional anatomy, that is not necessarily a weakness,

since nothing in the Chinese healing paradigm prevents one from considering

conventional anatomical concerns as well, while conventional approaches are

barred from alternative views.



> 7. Though smidgens of truth are available in Chinese Herbalism, with the

> incorrect basis, ALL OF CHINESE HERBALISM IS SUSPECT.



You don'tthe study to make that claim, and your real point is that you are

the bigot of a nontraditional experiment in healing which you believe to be

flawless. You are, in other words, a nutjob.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:54:28 GMT

--------

> Rough scketch: First awaken the individual to the absolute truth of self.

> When an individual fully grasps self, bodies heal very quickly.



This is basically a rehash of Vedanta. Such programs for 'Atman-based'

healing have been proposed FOREVER, however, they are often notable failures

in delivering the goods. This failure is then imputed to the failure of the

person to fully awaken to the 'TRUTH.'



Ramana Maharshi, a great Vedantist, died of throat cancer. He was as awake to

'self' as they get, and yet his illness killed him. His disciples, however,

say that he died for the good of his teaching work.



Such practices fall VERY MUCH, PRECISELY in fact, in the domain of faith

healing. They involve the acceptance or revelation of a 'free' state as the

actual true condition, and then the illness is expected to disappear, since

all illness is nothing but ignorance. That describes Christian Science fairly

well...it is hardly a new perspective or new paradigm of healing.



>The

> learning curve is eliminated. When healing tools are used, they have a

> greatly accelerated effect.



Not possible. They are inactive placebos, so their effect is nil. They are

just props, remember.



>Handle all issues and other barriers,

> (including body stuff to physical) mental and spiritual health, utilizing

> what ever tools are needed, spontaneously at the level the individual is

> at.



Bully. Like hot butter through a knife, eh?



> The tools for physical may include physical nutrition, including herbs

> where assistive, exercise, spinal manipulation, applied kinesiology, and

> direct personal intervention.



'Where assistive'? You mean where the patient will be tricked into thinking

they have an effect.



Your use of herbalism in any OTHER case, viz. a case where you expect the

herbs to perform biochemical action or to influence Qi, will be defective

BECAUSE you aren't an herbalist to any degree at all. Why? Because you can't

take it seriously. Your haughty self-realization makes your turn to magic

more than books. Too much 'herbs' of a certain sort, if you ask me.



Can't really read herbals comfortably with that pyramid on your head anyhow.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:35:36 -0900

--------

A

>Yes. I'll bet many of those problems have, after all, been carried there by

>all the Southerners who have moved there, from humid climates. As regard TB,

>its spread is more likely reflective of HUMAN crowding during winter, not the

>plantlife.

>

>Paul

>

>

Yes.  I have heard some medical men here say that the local natives seem to

be expecially susceptable to TB and pneumonia.  I couldn't say whether this

is from genetic propensitiy or environment.  I suppose there are some who

think it is genetic.  I couldn't say.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:35:37 -0900

--------

At 03:51 PM 1/24/97 GMT, Paul Iannone wrote:

>> There is plenty of time and energy and insight available. You have become

>> the  Chinese Medicine establishment. You talk about new ideas and

>> possibilities, the way the AMA talks about Chinese Medicine.

>

>No, I talk like someone who has made a concerted study of these issues.

>Others, like Bob Flaws and Michael Tierra, have also come to the very same

>conclusion. It took 3,000 years to fully develop Chinese herbalism...there is

>no way we are going to duplicate that effort at this point, nor need we.

>

>

I have utmost respect for Chinese herbalism and am learning more all the

time. I admit my ignorance.  How about the integration of Western herbs into

The Chinese format?  I would this this might deserve some research.  Who

knows what we could come up with if a greater pharmacy of medicinal herbs

was consulted.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Mark Gold <mgold@MAX.TIAC.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:53:41 -0500

--------

>Date:         Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:22:38 -0500

>From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

>Subject:      Re: East is East and West is West

>To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR



>My form of healing, is healing. I use herbs at times, always

>showing the patient how they bring about the healing with the herb.

>

>Sure, the system is laid out, and documented. For starters, the

>fundamental aphorism that all disease is self-determined, and it supports

>the structure that the individual believes in.



James,



Since the system is laid out, I would certainly like to hear about it

in more detail.  I suspect that many others on the group feel the

similarly.  Some of what you talk about seems interesting, but I

currently find it just "interesting thoughts" and it doesn't really

mean that much to me unless there is something more concrete.  If you

cannot give a general layout of the system to the group, maybe you

can give some concrete sample case histories.



Personally, it sounds like you are discussing (at least partially)

*starting* by teaching the client how to start looking deep within

himself/herself, including going into the emptiness, pain, fear, etc.

and lovingly embracing whatever comes up.  Of course, that's just

a guess.  But it would be so much easier if you just spit it

out! :-)  It appears you use other holistic healing tools (e.g.,

herbs) which is not surprising.



Well, I'm going to a prop healing workshop all day tomorrow.  I hope

the details are posted to the group when I get back!



Best Wishes,

                             - Mark

                          mgold@tiac.net

             http://www.tiac.net/users/mgold/health.html

                     No Web Access? Email Me





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:49:50 -0500

--------

>James,



>Since the system is laid out, I would certainly like to hear about it in

>more detail.  I suspect that many others on the group feel the similarly.

>Some of what you talk about seems interesting, but I currently find it

>just "interesting thoughts" and it doesn't really mean that much to me

>unless there is something more concrete.  If you cannot give a general

>layout of the system to the group, maybe you can give some concrete

>sample case histories.



Rough scketch: First awaken the individual to the absolute truth of self.

When an individual fully grasps self, bodies heal very quickly. The

learning curve is eliminated. When healing tools are used, they have a

greatly accelerated effect.  Handle all issues and other barriers,

(including body stuff to physical) mental and spiritual health, utilizing

what ever tools are needed, spontaneously at the level the individual is

at.



The tools for physical may include physical nutrition, including herbs

where assistive, exercise, spinal manipulation, applied kinesiology, and

direct personal intervention.



>Personally, it sounds like you are discussing (at least partially)

>*starting* by teaching the client how to start looking deep within

>himself/herself, including going into the emptiness, pain, fear, etc. and

>lovingly embracing whatever comes up. Of course, that's just a guess.



Good guess. That is done. but only until the individual is awakened. Then,

the education begins!



>But it would be so much easier if you just spit it out! :-)



One problem in "spitting out" what I do, is that It fall's in well outside

the bounds of this list. If you send me private email, I would be happy to

explain what I do, more fully.







>Well, I'm going to a prop healing workshop all day tomorrow.  I hope the

>details are posted to the group when I get back!



>Best Wishes,



Thanks Mark., enjoy your workshop!



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:00:25 EST

--------

Kim-



Don't be too quick to assume that aspects of Traditional Chinese Medicine

are supernatural rather than physical.



Chi is at least partially measurable with scientific instruments.

Becker, using a guassometer with a "pizza cutter" rolling electrode was

able to measure elevated electromagnetic impulses at 80% of the

traditional accupuncture points, when traveling down known meridians.  He

posits that other points, having evolved in a folk tradition, are

something else - points of muscle contracture, nerve points, trigger

points, etc.  Corresponding accupuncture points, especially spots

affecting a patient's condition, had inverse levels of electrical charge

and those charge differentials were reduced after an accupuncture

session.  Korean and German scientists, in separate research almost 2

decades old, injected the body with radioactive isotopes and were able to

see it pass through the meridians.



I have depressed lung and digestive chi, measured by taking my pulse and

corroborated through tongue diagnosis and other reportable symptoms.

Taking herbs such as ginseng or cordonopsis will cause a measurable

increase in my chi levels which are measurable through my pulse.

Exercise can increase it too, although I use walking rather than tai chi

or the martial arts.  Placing accupuncture needles on those points can

cause a measureable increase as well.  In fact sometimes I can feel an

electric charge going from me to my doctor as she stimulates the needles.



"Laying on hands" is another traditional way of affecting the

electromagnetic fields of the body.  I have a 19th century obstetrical

book that recommends finding a friend with "magnetic hands" to lay upon

the head of someone suffering from neuralgia.  Since we know that nerve

impulses are magnetic and that the charges can be balanced by completing

the circuit (with two hands), we can see a primitive Western appreciation

for these forces.  (Notice that Jesus would lay on his "hands" in the

plural when affecting a cure.)



The use of herbs in the western tradition doubtless affects chi, only

Westerners rarely attempted to measure it and thus do not have a

tradition of dealing with it explicitly.  In fact we don't have a good

vocabulary for it.  (I've often wondered if "ruach" (the breath of God

breathed into Adam) and chi are the same thing, (the life force?), but

that is a discussion for another forum.



When electricity was first introduced into forms, many people thought of

it as ungodly or supernatural because it could not be seen.  Today we

identify it as a physical force and acknowledge that it provides no

competition to the Creator, who after all created it.  I suspect that

some day we will see chi the same way.  And that the concept of chi will

be integrated into the western view of medicine.  Along with an

appreciation for the effect of herbs, drugs and surgery upon the natural

energetic forces of the body.





Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:22:23 EST Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

writes:

>>Chinese healing is just fine with its 'supernatural' aspects left in,



>My spiritual orientation leads away from the path you are following, and

>would be  probably highly offensive to you,but requires me to separate

>TCM from it's supernatural aspects,  because of unholiness- I'm

>required to keep myself clean.  No disrespect intended.

>

. Blood is that aspect of a

>>person that substantiates their spirit and Qi...it is the part of you

that is

>>formless yet alive. People with sufficient and fluent Blood are happy

>>and at ease.

>

>This still sounds very close to " the life of the flesh residing in the

blood"

>-  close enough to give it at least a second glance.  BTW, I think

>Michael Moore kind of touches on this train of thought in his  works

>on herbal energetics.

>

>

snip



>

>Kim in VA

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:52:49 EST

--------

On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:00:25 EST Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

writes:

>Kim-

>

>Don't be too quick to assume that aspects of Traditional Chinese

>Medicine are supernatural rather than physical.



Hey now, that's not what  I said... : )   I think I said that <Chinese

Med. when separated from it's religious aspects...shows genius in it's

perception of disease.<  I then redefined my statement when I wrote

that<Supernatural aspects might be closer, (than my poorly worded term

"religious") which are not necessarily "nonrational" IMO.  <   I can

understand why this would be confusing.  Sometimes this is a difficult

medium to communicate in.

>

>Chi is at least partially measurable with scientific instruments.



My understanding of chi is a person or subject's "affect".  My

understanding of what a guassometer measures is the amount of

light-energy in a person. I believe the two are different





>

>"Laying on hands" is another traditional way of affecting the

>electromagnetic fields of the body.  I have a 19th century obstetrical

>book that recommends finding a friend with "magnetic hands" to lay

>upon the head of someone suffering from neuralgia.  Since we know that

>nerve impulses are magnetic and that the charges can be balanced by

>completing the circuit (with two hands), we can see a primitive

>Western appreciation for these forces.  (Notice that Jesus would lay

>on his "hands" in the plural when affecting a cure.)



I lay hands on people and they have been healed, even a person whose leg

was run over by a (slow-moving) Trans -Am!  It's not a big deal to me.I

am drawn to healing with herbs.  As for magnets,  I've had clients use

them at births and they seem to have some relief with them.  Also no big

deal. But definitely off-topic!   (BTW Jesus always healed in different

ways, but faith was always the catalyst.... and that, my friend, is SO

off-topic I probably should have never mentioned it but just couldn't

resist...I'll behave now. ; )



>

>

  (I've often wondered if "ruach" (the breath of God

>breathed into Adam) and chi are the same thing, (the life force?), but

>that is a discussion for another forum.



 Hmm- sounds tempting!



Kim in VA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:34:06 GMT

--------

> >> I don't know, just because I CAN do something does it justify doing

> >it?

> >

> >Yep.

>

> Faulty logic.  Please expound for me.



All I meant is that for me reliability concerns are greater than a desire to

experiment on my patients.



> >Our culture doesn't have sufficient diversity left for that task.

>

> Our culture could not BE more diverse.



No, the commonality of the modern paradigm is nearly global at this point.

People DO INDEED perceive the world in terms of mass/energy, and they do

generally perceive plants with the common senses, so there is little

possibility of some new healing system involving plants arising.



> >There is

> >simply no more time for such archaic evolution.

>

> Who's to tell how much time we have.  We've always had sick people, and

> still have found ways to heal and learn about healing simultaneously-

> We'll just have to triage, if you will. Perhaps that is where the

> shoe-horning  will have to come in.



"Don't risk your health to test a doctor; don't risk your patient's health to

test a medicine."



> >Stewardship is too big an issue. People need curing, and they need it

> >now.

>

> People have always needed curing.  Stewardship is not a big enough issue.

> I wish to be found faithful.



Can't help you there. You are part of a society that consumes WAY more than

its share of food, energy, material, and culture (human awareness).



> >While it is possible to shoehorn local plants onto Chinese healing, it

> >is not

> >reasonable to expect to elaborate a new system in this time period.

> >There is

> >no time, no energy, no great insight for that to work. And no great

> >seers to

> >make the fundamental leaps necessary to invent a new paradigm.

>

> Perhaps you are right, and that would be sad.  But I don't think there

> will be any stopping those who do see and who have the ability to hear

> what the plants and the Spirit are speaking to them about healing *today*

>  and that  in their own back yards.



Well, of course, plant healing will continue to develop, though I predict it

will be along the backbone of Chinese herbalism, since it is demonstrably the

most comprehensive system of holistic care ever developed. Got a spare 4,000

years around? If so, maybe you can match it, who's to say?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:35:44 GMT

--------

> >My spiritual orientation leads away from the path you are following, and

> >would be  probably highly offensive to you,but requires me to separate

> >TCM from it's supernatural aspects,  because of unholiness- I'm required

> >to keep myself clean.  No disrespect intended.



Well, your terminology is just fine then. "TCM" is despiritualized Chinese

healing. I do not practice TCM.



> Kim, I think you may be reading more into the "spiritual" aspects of the

> Chinese healing than is there.



There is plenty there to offend someone from Christian, Judaic or Moslim

faiths. Chinese healing is vastly pagan in some respects.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:52:51 EST

--------

>There is plenty there to offend someone from Christian, Judaic or

>Moslim

>faiths. Chinese healing is vastly pagan in some respects.

>

>Paul

>

Thanks Paul.  At least *somebody* is not misinterpreting me here!

And thanks for giving me more to work with.

Kim in VA





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:49:48 -0900

--------

At 02:22 PM 1/25/97 EST, Kim P Ratcliff wrote:

>>Chinese healing is just fine with its 'supernatural' aspects left in,

>>then.

>>These spirit aspects enhance diagnosis, to the point that a true seer

>>can

>>define an illness on sight. So what was your point?

>

>My spiritual orientation leads away from the path you are following, and

>would be  probably highly offensive to you,but requires me to separate

>TCM from it's supernatural aspects,  because of unholiness- I'm required

>to keep myself clean.  No disrespect intended.

>



Kim, I think you may be reading more into the "spiritual" aspects of the

Chinese healing than is there.  You would do well to learn more before

making subjective judgements particularly based on the recent discussions on

this list.  Certainly, Jesus was a healer who could define and cure an

illness, not only on sight but even without seeing the patient he could

heal.  I don't believe it was  only the faith of the patient that was

instrumental in his healing.  He had power.  There are those who would think

this incredibly "supernatural".

   Healing with herbs IS supernatural.  It is "super" and it is "natural".

When a healer leaves off any spirituality (whatever their beliefs), they

become nothing more than a mechanic.  That's the problem I find with hawkers

of herbs who are recruited to make companies rich.  It's taken many years

for me to learn to separate getting an income with healing with herbs.  I've

been hit up by every network marketing plan that has come around since the

early 70's.  When you forget marketing hype  you can really start to learn.

Soon you will discover there is spirit in plants that is hard to feel from

capsules in brightly labeled packages.

   When you begin to seek for the plants in their living environment, you

come into the world of real spiritual healing.  The body is a whole entity

not simply a machine made of various mechanical parts.  There is a life

force that permeates it and keeps it in balance.  You will find too that

this life force is connected to its environment.  It can be felt.  There are

rare healers who know instinctively what herbs to use and where to find

them.  They need not even know what the plants are.  They just know they are

the proper herb to use for healing a particular case.  I think this is a

spiritual art that can be learned.  It is not pagan, Christian or any other

sectarian thing.  And it is not an "unclean" art.

   I am not a Chinese herbalist.  I have learned Western herbalism because

it was available to me.  I think you are cutting yourself off from a most

interesting study.  You don't need to worship satan or Buddah or anybody

else to learn about Chinese herbs.  It's not a worship thing.  I'm really

puzzled by your comments.  I've never heard of anyone fearing to be unclean

for studying herbal healing. I would encourage you to learn more. No offense

meant.

  BTW, I've been on this list a long time and have found Paul an excellent

resource.  Sometimes you have to pump him for further explanations though.

Instead of being offended and flaming him.  Just ask him for a little more.

It's much more pleasant and can be very enlightening.  I learn alot from his

responses to flames.  He argues with everyone at one time or another.  No

one need feel special.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Kim P Ratcliff <kimrcliff@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:52:50 EST

--------

On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:49:48 -0900 Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET> writes:

>At 02:22 PM 1/25/97 EST, Kim P Ratcliff wrote:

>>>Chinese healing is just fine with its 'supernatural' aspects left

>in,

>>>then.

>>>These spirit aspects enhance diagnosis, to the point that a true

>seer

>>>can

>>>define an illness on sight. So what was your point?

>>

>>My spiritual orientation leads away from the path you are following,

>and

>>would be  probably highly offensive to you,but requires me to

>separate

>>TCM from it's supernatural aspects,  because of unholiness- I'm

>required

>>to keep myself clean.  No disrespect intended.

>>

>

>Kim, I think you may be reading more into the "spiritual" aspects of

>the

>Chinese healing than is there.  You would do well to learn more before

>making subjective judgements particularly based on the recent

>discussions on

>this list.



A rebuke from the gentle Anita suggests careful consideration!  ( no

sarcasm intended)  : )



  Certainly, Jesus was a healer who could define and cure an

>illness, not only on sight but even without seeing the patient he

>could

>heal.  I don't believe it was  only the faith of the patient that was

>instrumental in his healing.  He had power.  There are those who would

>think

>this incredibly "supernatural".



Absolutely.





>   Healing with herbs IS supernatural.  It is "super" and it is

>"natural".



I have no problem with *believing* in the supernatural.  Is that what you

mean here?



>early 70's.  When you forget marketing hype  you can really start to

>learn.

>Soon you will discover there is spirit in plants



I  have discovered this- many years ago.  I wish there was some place I

could discuss this phenomena with others . I don't sell herbs and never

would. It nauseates me. My clients are women and their families, having

babies..not something one can sell over the internet, besides, it would

be illegal in my state to charge them, so I don't.  I minister  healing

to people because it is who I am, and what God has called me to.(Not

because I can make money which I am afraid I felt you inferred in your

post.  I hope I misunderstood. : / )



>There are

>rare healers who know instinctively what herbs to use and where to

>find

>them.  They need not even know what the plants are.  They just know

>they are

>the proper herb to use for healing a particular case.  I think this is

>a

>spiritual art that can be learned.  It is not pagan, Christian or any

>other

>sectarian thing.  And it is not an "unclean" art.





Anita, this happens to me all the time!!   I wish I could talk to others

who are having these type of experiences! I don't consider this unclean,

but a gift from God.  I really think you have misunderstood where I'm

coming from.



>   I am not a Chinese herbalist.  I have learned Western herbalism

>because

>it was available to me.  I think you are cutting yourself off from a

>most

>interesting study.



Who's cutting off ? I've been on this list for 6 months now.



 You don't need to worship satan or Buddah or

>anybody

>else to learn about Chinese herbs.  It's not a worship thing.



Never said this either.



>I'm really puzzled by your comments.



I see that.



> I've never heard of anyone fearing to be unclean for studying herbal

healing.



Huh?! I wouldn't be here for half a year if that was the case.  Besides,

I don't operate in fear. At least I try not to! ; )



I would encourage you to learn more. No

>offense

>meant.

None taken gentle Anita.  You've been taking quite a battering lately!

BTW, I think your sense of humor is just fine!



>  BTW, I've been on this list a long time and have found Paul an

>excellent

>resource.  Sometimes you have to pump him for further explanations

>though.



I thought that WAS what I was doing...sigh.  I guess I don't express

myself as clearly as I should- I'll work at it.



>Instead of being offended and flaming him.  Just ask him for a little

>more.



Me? Flame?  Paul?  Do you think I'm out of my mind?!  (grin)  I was

*really* trying to be respectful ....and pick his brains a little,

without compromising my own convictions.. opinions are something to fight

over, but convictions are what people will die over, which I would.



>It's much more pleasant and can be very enlightening.  I learn alot

>from his

>responses to flames.  He argues with everyone at one time or another.

>No

>one need feel special.



Um,   I guess I missed this too.  I didn't feel that he was arguing with

me at all, I'm accustomed to his tone, and was really enjoying someone

taking time to give serious thought to my questions.  I felt that he

treated me respectfully as well.  Maybe I missed something. Maybe you

did. Don't worry about it.



Kim in VA





>**********************************************************************

>* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

>*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

>*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

>* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

>**********************************************************************

>* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

>**********************************************************************

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:49:33 +0000

--------

>snip alot

> Um,   I guess I missed this too.  I didn't feel that he was arguing with

> me at all, I'm accustomed to his tone, and was really enjoying someone

> taking time to give serious thought to my questions.  I felt that he

> treated me respectfully as well.  Maybe I missed something. Maybe you

> did. Don't worry about it.

>

> Kim in VA

>

>

Isn't it hard sometimes to tell what someone means from a couple of

paragraphs on the internet?  Language is such a fickle thing.  I

guess I was worried that Kim was one of those anti-herb persons.  I'm

glad I was under the wrong impression.   Kim sounds like a terrific

person whom I would like to know.  Herbs hold a "magic" for me that I

would love to share with others.  I sometimes get overzealous.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Mike McLain <Watcher@CSOLUTION.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:01:38 -0500

--------

HE>> >My spiritual orientation leads away from the path you are following, and

HE>> >would be  probably highly offensive to you,but requires me to separate

HE>> >TCM from it's supernatural aspects,  because of unholiness- I'm required

HE>> >to keep myself clean.  No disrespect intended.



HE>Well, your terminology is just fine then. "TCM" is despiritualized Chinese

HE>healing. I do not practice TCM.



HE>> Kim, I think you may be reading more into the "spiritual" aspects of the

HE>> Chinese healing than is there.



HE>There is plenty there to offend someone from Christian, Judaic or Moslim

HE>faiths. Chinese healing is vastly pagan in some respects.



HE>Paul

1Peter 2:12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they

accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God

on the day he visits us. NIV

Do not as the pagans do!

Mike





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:57:07 GMT

--------

> >Soon you will discover there is spirit in plants



And in some plants especially! Which adds a chilling slant to the discussion

about hemp. What I see when I see hemp users is often people who have been

taken over by a plant. It is very bizarre.



I see coffee in the same light.



> I  have discovered this- many years ago.  I wish there was some place I

> could discuss this phenomena with others . I don't sell herbs and never

> would. It nauseates me. My clients are women and their families, having

> babies..not something one can sell over the internet, besides, it would

> be illegal in my state to charge them, so I don't.  I minister  healing

> to people because it is who I am, and what God has called me to.(Not

> because I can make money which I am afraid I felt you inferred in your

> post.  I hope I misunderstood. : / )



Well, that is my situation as well, although I do make a living as a healer.

It is something you are chosen for. It isn't something you come up with by

yourself.



> >There are

> >rare healers who know instinctively what herbs to use and where to

> >find

> >them.



> Anita, this happens to me all the time!!   I wish I could talk to others

> who are having these type of experiences! I don't consider this unclean,

> but a gift from God.  I really think you have misunderstood where I'm

> coming from.



I see no reason why this can't be discussed right here. But, being an

atheist, my interpretation will differ from yours, though both of us will

agree there are supernatural forces at work, 'good AND bad.'



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Menopause

From: Walter Semerenko <walter@ORLINTER.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:58:01 +0000

--------

My friend's mom is going through menopause, and she is getting hot flashes

that last for 2 minutes.  Is there any herbal treatments that any of you can

recommend?  Any other advice would be helpful.



Walter.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: Chris Arthur <CArthur912@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:52:56 -0500

--------

NO.

I use it. Are you always so critical before you know all the facts?

It is a shame you haven't experienced menopause. Perhaps you would understand

the comradarie between humans.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Alzheimer's Disease

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:08:31 -0800

--------

At 06:50 PM 1/21/97 -0600, you wrote:

>if you find any books that are helpful on the Alzheimer's (correct pselling

>here might help) could you please fill me in? Thanks.

>

>Deana

>

There is a web page that will interest you......http://www.halcyon.com/alzh9/



Be well,

Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Alzheimer's Disease

From: "Maria T. Bohle" <FRJOBO@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:13:54 -0500

--------

Try Ginko Biloba,



It increases peripheral circulation and improves oxygenation ability of the

body.



You must take it daily for a long time, months.  It is not known to be toxic,

but as with any herb be very sensitive to side effects and discontinue use at

the first sign.



Ginko works for a lot of seniors, you can get capsules at a good health food

store.



Maria





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: herb information for newbies

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:36:29 EST

--------

Good sites to get more information:



Michael Moore's  web page has comprehensive descriptions, pictures of

herbs, instructions for tincturing, herbal manuals in Adobe Acrobat form

and a list of herbs that should not be mixed.  It is at:

 http://chili.rt66.com/hrbmoore/HOMEPAGE/HomePage.html



Henriette's homepage has culinary and medicinal herbs, topical posts

largely from the Herb list and archives of back herb lists.  It also has

excellent links and FAQs.  You will find it at:

 http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed/



Michael Tierra's webpage has a number of good and long articles.  He

bridges Chinese and Western herbal approaches:

http://www.cruzio.com/~eastwest/



Herbal Hall :  http://www.crl.com/~robbee/herbal.html



Plants Home Page:  http://www.mindspring.com/%7Eplants/index.html



Herb Net: http://www.herbnet.com/



Jim Dukes database is comprehensive but obscure:

 http://probe.nalusda.gov:8000/related/aboutphytochemdb.html



HotWired's Ask Dr. Weil covers alternative medicine from a broadminded

allopathic MD perspective:  http://www.hotwired.com/drweil/



Internet Medical and Health Care Resources: World Wide Web:

       http://www.teleport.com/~amrta/iwaywww.html



Accupuncture:  http://www.Acupuncture.com/



St John's wort- single herb homepage dealing with depression:

www.hypericum.com



Seeds from H.R. Talmage & Son Catalog:

http://www.edification.com/talmage/index.htm



Exotic Plant and Seed Garden:  http://www.datasync.com/sbe/Welcome.html



(also Richters, but I don't have the url)



Chinese herb web site:  http://www-geog.hkbu.edu.hk/health



Phytopharmacognosy list:  http://www.pharmweb.net/www/pharm/



Debbie's Favorite Garden Links:

 http://www.premier1.net/~teachout/glinks.html



And many more belonging to listmembers who will often include them with

their signatures.  Happy webbing.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: uric acid

From: Kim Scott <kscott@QUICKLNK.QUICKLINK.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:13:44 -0600

--------

At 04:04 PM 1/22/99 -0800, you wrote:



>I would like to konw if there is any herb or nutritional treatment for

>uric acid increased serum levels, to prevent gout or pseudogout.

>Thanks all,

>                          Mariana :)

>



Mariana -



Devili's claw has been found to relieve joint pain, as well as reduce serum

cholesterol and uric acid levels.  Dr. Murray recommends a dosage of devil's

claw of 1-2 grams three times a day of dried powdered root; 4-5 milliliters

three times a day of tincture (1:5); or 400 milligrams three times a day of

dry solid extract (3:1).  Other recommended herbs would include licorice and

alfalfa.  Feverfew has also been found to be effective in inhibiting the

synthesis of proinflammatory response.  He also recommends eating 1/2 lb. of

fresh or canned cherries per dya.  Cherries, hawthorn berries, blueberries,

and other dark red-blue berries are rich sources of compounds that have been

found to favorably affect collagen metabolism and prevent and reduce

inflammation of joints.



Kim





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: uric acid

From: Michael Bailes <frgntgar@FASTLINK.COM.AU>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:13:47 +1100

--------

>I would like to konw if there is any herb or nutritional treatment for

>uric acid increased serum levels, to prevent gout or pseudogout.

>Thanks all,

>                          Mariana :)

GIN









==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: uric acid

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:58:11 GMT

--------

> >I would like to konw if there is any herb or nutritional treatment for

> >uric acid increased serum levels, to prevent gout or pseudogout.

> >Thanks all,

> >                          Mariana :)

> GIN



Nonsense, forever nonsense. Gin and raisins are NOT a treatment to lower

GOUT, which is made much worse by consumption of alcohol.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: uric acid

From: Nikki Todd <NikkiTodd@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:20:20 -0500

--------

cherries in any form - dried, juice, fresh, canned





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: uric acid

From: Mariana Chapochnikoff <mch@IMPSAT1.COM.AR>

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:04:03 -0800

--------

I would like to konw if there is any herb or nutritional treatment for

uric acid increased serum levels, to prevent gout or pseudogout.

Thanks all,

                          Mariana :)







P.S. : Please, sorry about my elementary English.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: ... and cancer (in that order)

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:07:01 -0800

--------

At 05:29 PM 1/22/97 GMT, you wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:37:56 +0000 (GMT), Phyllis Johnpoll

><phyllis.johnpoll@NCSL.ORG> wrote:

>

>[snip]

>

>>|Now, then, my mother has just told me (so casually I could scream) that

>>|my father has "a little cancer" (literally what she said) in the

>>|prostate. The ultrasound is next week, but it's apparently small and she

>>|didn't sound worried. I'm not going to go forcing herbs on my dad just

>>|now, but if the doctor decides the cancer is too small to worry about,

>>|is there something I can suggest for him at that point? I don't want to

>>|go burdening him with bunches of pills (he takes enough for his diabetes

>>|and his heart blockage.....) but I'd at least like to suggest something

>>|to strengthen his system against the cancer.

>>|

>>|*BB*

>>|

>>|ptj

>>

Hello:



Try Coenzyme Q-10 4000 mg. daily. Try too Pycnogenol (Grape Seeds extract)

180 mg. at day. I think that will be a very good help for your dady. God

bless him, and you.



Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: endless carping

From: Kathy Lingo <Lingo4@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:26:35 -0500

--------

As in life, this list is filled with diverse personalities and communication

styles. The big benefit here is that you can simply eliminate that which

annoys you. There is a huge amount of knowledge on this list and so much to

learn. I think the very wise will take that which they deem good and

enhancing and ignore that which they find objectionable.



Whether or not you grow to like him, you will find Paul knowledgeable,

informative, passionate about health and healing, and caring (despite the

method of delivery). He appears to be a man with a mission who has grown

weary of "sales pitches" and "unfounded rumors" when one's health is at

stake.



Writing and speaking styles come in as many shapes and forms as the people

who utilize them. Learn what you can, find humor where you will, help as you

are able (siting sources when possible), and grow a really thick skin to deal

with attacks when you are wrong (and we all are sometimes as there is no end

to new information and findings just as there is no end to rumors and fevered

sales pitches). You will grow richer in knowledge, character and

acceptance--and you might even find youself appreciating those you thought

you disliked.



Just an opinion from a very over-sensitive person who almost left two lists

because the attacks on her comments caused pain. I stayed, I learned (not

only new things, but how to question and find the real truth within the

hyped-up tabloid headlines), and I grew to appreciate and like the very

people who angered me. Still, you will sometimes find me hunkered down in the

bunkers waiting for the cease fire. =;o)



Wishing you all peace and acceptance,



Kathy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: endless carping

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:50:55 GMT

--------

> Not even the "cream of the crop", the best physician, is capable, nor so

> ignorant and irresponsible, to ever attempt to make an evaluation or a

> diagnosis and prescribe treatment, without ever having met the patient!

> You are tredding on very dangerous waters Paul!



It can be done, and done successfully, and I have long and successful

experience doing it. My therapy is circumspect and time-tested. I do not take

risks with my clients' health.



We are not talking about treating deadly diseases here. You are imputing a

crime to me that I have not committed. It is certainly possible to describe

the parameters of illness in Chinese healing terms, sight unseen, and to even

make useful and reasonable assessments and recommendations. Your

fearmongering notwithstanding.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: endless carping

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:52:15 -0800

--------

At 12:50 AM 1/24/97 GMT, you wrote:

>> Not even the "cream of the crop", the best physician, is capable, nor so

>> ignorant and irresponsible, to ever attempt to make an evaluation or a

>> diagnosis and prescribe treatment, without ever having met the patient!

>> You are tredding on very dangerous waters Paul!

>

>It can be done, and done successfully, and I have long and successful

>experience doing it. My therapy is circumspect and time-tested. I do not take

>risks with my clients' health.

>

>We are not talking about treating deadly diseases here. You are imputing a

>crime to me that I have not committed. It is certainly possible to describe

>the parameters of illness in Chinese healing terms, sight unseen, and to even

>make useful and reasonable assessments and recommendations. Your

>fearmongering notwithstanding.

>

>Paul

>

The phenomenal emergence of the medical intuitive (degreed by some

universities) is proof that a medical diagnosis can be made from a distance.

This is not considered ignorant or irresponsible, but readily becoming

accepted.



Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: endless carping

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:05:48 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-25 12:54:23 EST, you write:



<< to help maintain and boost the immune system???

  >>



I'm not Marcia, but read my post on cat's claw (posted yesterday).  I've

found it to be very useful in immune systems boosting!  (commercial

disclaimer applies!!!!)



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: endless carping

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:56:15 -0800

--------

At 11:44 AM 1/25/97 -0600, you wrote:

>Marcia Elston wrote:

>>

>> .....KISS

>

>Barb

>

>

>Thank you Marcia! Glad to see you took the time to read.....all the way

>to the end!  Your statement is truly profound!

>

>So, since we're on the dicussion of herbs: what's your take on herbs??

>Which do you recommend, with the exception of the obvious...echinacea,

>goldenseal....to help maintain and boost the immune system???

>

>Barb

>

I can only tell you what I do, Barb, I can't recommend a course for you.

However, I drink plenty of pure (alkaline) water (not distilled, which has

all nutrients removed along with the garbage); I have eliminated most sugar

from my diet, including fruit every morning; I eat mainly cooked vegetables,

legumes and rice with little meat;  I walk and swim three or four times a

week; I work at what I love (I am thankful for that);  I play the keyboard

and sing for relaxation and release, and I garden year around.  And, I laugh

and play with my grandchildren often.  Herbs I use regularly include Stevia,

Garlic (usually fresh although I sometimes take the tablets),  Capsicum,

Gingko biloba and Dong Quai.  I use dandelion (whole plant) a lot, either

infused to drink, or in salads.   I eat a lot of fresh parsley, and I eat

raw vegetables in the form of bitter salads.    I don't use echinacea on a

regular basis; I tend to agree with the school of thought that recommends it

for acute situations.  Goldenseal is endangered, so I substitute Oregon

Grape root, again not as a tonic, but when my immune system is compromised.



Now, maybe we can discuss what herbs to use to supress pompous sarcasm

verging on fraudulent misrepresentation.



Be well,







Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On-topic and diuretics

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:03:45 GMT

--------

> But I do ponder as to the effectiveness of any health care provider who

> delivers diagnosis and treatment with a superior, officious,

> non-nurturing approach. Those who are ill need extra TLC; the more

> chronic the illness the more the need, especially if the HCP wants to

> inspire the patient into major lifestyle changes to restore health.



This myth is one I rise to challenge again and again. 'TLC' is what you give

children who are ill. The adult is someone who is inherently in need of

challenge, catharsis, intensity, even blows from a healer!



Adults don't have much time to change or die. When they have wandered from

their path, it often takes gigantic intensity to push them back in line, at

the cost of their perishing if they don't. In fact, that is the whole message

of illness, the whole message of death, the whole message of the condition we

are caught up in. Only in consumer societies do the passive people cry out

for LUUUUUUVE! Give me a moment of SPIRIT any time. You can keep your Sally

Jessy moments for someone who has the time to be catered to.



In most traditional societies, the idea that you would give 'TLC' to a sick

man would bring about the loudest and most chilling laughter you have ever

heard.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: On-topic and diuretics

From: Evo & Caryl <emarcon@TALLSHIPS.ISTAR.CA>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:55:22 -0800

--------

At the risk of invoking Paul's wrath....For what it's worth, I didn't

find Denise's posts commercial, and I'm glad she's sticking around.

Keeping ads out is, indeed, one of the reasons I stick with this list.

So is seeing the diverse range of info that is shared ON HERBS.

Philosophical rants about Tibet, petty back and forths between highly

charged egos, and cynical comebacks to innocent queries are what I don't

waste my time on. Thank goodness for quick delete methods.

But I do ponder as to the effectiveness of any health care provider who

delivers diagnosis and treatment with a superior, officious,

non-nurturing approach. Those who are ill need extra TLC; the more

chronic the illness the more the need, especially if the HCP wants to

inspire the patient into major lifestyle changes to restore health.



Now, to the real reason we're all here...HERBS...I've decided to get off

prescription

diuretics (taken for edema as a result of TCI) and try a herbal remedy.

I'd appreciate any suggestions of combinations to try.



Caryl





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On-topic and diuretics

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:59:50 -0900

--------

A

>

>Now, to the real reason we're all here...HERBS...I've decided to get off

>prescription

>diuretics (taken for edema as a result of TCI) and try a herbal remedy.

>I'd appreciate any suggestions of combinations to try.

>

>Caryl

>

>

For serious health problems, it is always a good idea to see a reputable

healer and have your progress professionally monitored.  Just "trying" this

or that can get you into a whole lot of trouble.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: dang-gui

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:18:07 GMT

--------

> Paul,

> I am wondering whether dang-gui is the same as dong quai? I am looking

> for something to make blood flow easier.  From my Herbal Emissaries I

> was hoping to find something remotely familiar.

> Linda Shipley



Chinese orthography is a mess. 'Danggui' is the current correct spelling. The

same plant.



The Northern pronunciation is something like 'dawng-uay,' so you can see that

neither spelling gives you all the right clues from the standpoint of

English. Then again, we should understand that a far better pronunciation

standard is Spanish or Italian, and indeed, the designers of Pinyin (the

current and from now on official spelling system) took this into account.

Once you learn how 'gui' is pronounced, it remains essentially the same in

all contexts, unlike English with its impossible orthography.



Pinyin is nearly correct in its capture of the essential phonology, minus the

tones, which can be supplied with numbers, such as Dang1 gui1, so you would

pronounce it a bit high pitched across the entire word (don't drop the pitch

at the end like we do in English).



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: dang-gui

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:06:24 -0800

--------

Paul,

I am wondering whether dang-gui is the same as dong quai? I am looking

for something to make blood flow easier.  From my Herbal Emissaries I

was hoping to find something remotely familiar.

Linda Shipley





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Herbal ramblings: a wild winter

From: Penny Hemans <pennyh@THENET.CO.UK>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:34:48 +0000

--------

Thankyou Howie.  Your words are a healing in themselves.  I am sure there

are many of us on the list who can relate to your experiences, and who will

join you, in imagination, on your walk.  It's been a great boost after a

bout of that 'flu we're all talking about (which by the way only lasted

three days thanks to the advice given from everyone, and not the usual two

weeks, stay-at-home, keep away from contact until better syndrome!)



Blessings

Penny





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: endless carping [off-topic]

From: Michael Umehara <umeham@RPI.EDU>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:45:06 -0500

--------

   First off, I'd like to say that if members really wanted to improve

their netiquette, putting off-topic in the subject line would help

people delete messages like this one that has nothing to do with herbs.



   Secondly, another list that I'm on has an equally vocal member who is also

quite knowledgable and somewhat caustic. He, too, generates his fair share

of off-topic complaints and support message slinging. He maintains, however,

that true knowledge and understanding is better obtained through disparity.



   This other list is also designed to share knowledge for the betterment

of a topic that does not necessarily have distinct black and white answers.

If everyone agreed with a caring response with everyone else's comments, we

would all be fooling ourselves and be locked into our own (probably ill-)

conceived notions. It's my opinion that it is good to be challenged to

defend one's comments (however, we shouldn't have to defend our character).

By hashing our opinions and facts, we can get to a better understanding of

herbs, physiology and psychology, regardless of eastern, western or

un-worldy origin.



  Finally, we are too stuck up on degrees in the USA. Experience and practise

weigh more in my book than some certificate. I still remember a friend's

comment:

What do you call the med student who graduated last in his class? Doctor.



  In closing, another additional netiquette suggestion is to close

one's message with a name and email address. Various systems usually

butcher or hide the proper individual address; and sometimes we forget

that we have an odd email name (I for one would not have chosen umeham

had I had a choice), so a real name is a nice addition.



Sorry for the wasted bandwidth,

   Mike U.

   umeham@rpi.edu





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Fruit, was Re(2): HERB Digest - 21 Jan 1997

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:14:02 GMT

--------

> Why shouldn't one eat fruit? Because of the high sugar content? Excuse my

> asking, What's Qi?



Fruit is a special occasion food, because it is too Sweet, too Cooling, and

too Dampening for optimal Digestive harmony.



Qi is sometimes spelled 'chi,' and it is the influence that something exerts

on something else. It is NOT 'energy.'



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Attitude/dong quai

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:14:06 GMT

--------

> Also, by way of chinese medicine, what do you suggest for hurried, angry

> attitude besides t'ai chai or exercise?



Peppermint oil, a drop right on the tip of your tongue. That, and learn to

breathe from your belly, instead of with your shoulders.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Attitude/dong quai

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:07:05 -0800

--------

Hello.  What a relief (dong qui).  Should women who are premenopausal

take this?

Also, by way of chinese medicine, what do you suggest for hurried, angry

attitude besides t'ai chai or exercise?

Thank you so much.

Lindashipley





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Attitude/dong quai

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:59:53 -0900

--------

At 04:14 PM 1/23/97 GMT, Paul Iannone wrote:

>> Also, by way of chinese medicine, what do you suggest for hurried, angry

>> attitude besides t'ai chai or exercise?

>

>Peppermint oil, a drop right on the tip of your tongue. That, and learn to

>breathe from your belly, instead of with your shoulders.

>

>Paul

>

>

Yeah, try taking some singing lessons.  We vocalists learn to do this in

order to survive all those looong notes.  You know a good vocalist by

watching whether the shoulders are used in breathing while singing.  After a

while you just breathe that way all the time.  Singing is good for the soul

too.  It can be very healing.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction/fibroids

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:14:25 GMT

--------

> My cysts get very large, now in both breasts for about 3

> weeks out of the month and very painful.  The only good part is they swell

up

> enough that I actually have some noticeable cleavage but I digress.



Get an acupuncture treatment or two. Clear the Liver Channel, and your breast

swelling will become less painful (though you may get fewer looks at the

store).



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A long winded introduction/fibroids

From: Lisa Abbinante <LAbbo@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:52:05 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-22 18:06:39 EST, you write:



<< with is to use tinctures of Damiana and Angelica drops in an equal amounts

 in water - taking them three times a day (eight hours apart) every day in

 order to maintain the same level in my system (could be smaller doses and

 closer together to be more accurate about it, but no time to keep up with

 that!).  I also am taking a small dosage of kelp twice daily.  I haven't

 changed my diet otherwise.  And yes - I dri >>



Your posting and physical ailment (fibroid tumors in your uterus) caught my

eye. About 5 months ago (I'm 29) I found a lump in my breast and thought

okay, I have cancer but as it turned out, after tests and an ultrasound, they

determined it was fibrocystic breast disease which sounds worse then it is.

 Basically I've been told some of the same things.  They recommend that I go

on the pill ( don't want to--planning on getting pregnant in the next 6-12

months) and one surgeon told me that they could disappear with pregnancy or

be very painful.  My cysts get very large, now in both breasts for about 3

weeks out of the month and very painful.  The only good part is they swell up

enough that I actually have some noticeable cleavage but I digress.  Anyway,

I started taking kelp as you have and also read that evening primrose oil

(topical form) would help decrease the size of the cysts.  I have only been

using the kelp and evening primrose oil for about 1 1/2 weeks so I don't

really know if it's working but I believe that the kelp could be helping me

because I might be deficient in iodine due to strenuous exercise (and I don't

drink enough water) and a vegetarian diet.  I don't know much about Damiana

and Angelica except from Herb books which you've already consulted but I

would be very interested in hearing how things improve for you.  Maybe the

evening primrose oil would work for your condition?  Take care.



Lisa





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Castille soap

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:14:30 GMT

--------

> Has anyone had experience using the liquid form of castille soap?

> It is supposed to be great for hair, skin etc... and not drying to the

skin.



Very drying to the skin, I beg to differ. I have good skin, but I find it too

drying for me. I can't imagine putting it in my hair---sounds like a Navy

practice, or something.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Castille soap

From: Terry King <taeking@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:45:35 +0000

--------

On 23 Jan 97 at 20:31, Johnny or Susan Battle wrote:



> You must have used something other than true castille soap. Real castile

> soap contains 25% pure glycerin, which is a humectant and an emollient.

> Real soap is soothing and moisturizing to the skin. It contains no lye, and

> often contains a slight excess of oil, which is called superfatting.

> Susan



Susan,



I'm curious how you make soap with out lye?  My information on true

castille soap is it is made from pure virgin olive oil, beef tallow, lye

(either sodium  hydroxide for bar soap or potassium hydroxide for

liquid soaps)and soft water.



Terry King

taeking@televar.com

Zone 4

North Central Eastern Washington





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Castille soap

From: Johnny or Susan Battle <sbattle@AGORA.RDROP.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:55:55 -0800

--------

>

> I'm curious how you make soap with out lye?  My information on true

> castille soap is it is made from pure virgin olive oil, beef tallow, lye

> (either sodium  hydroxide for bar soap or potassium hydroxide for

> liquid soaps)and soft water.

>

> Terry,

No, you can't make soap without using lye. It's just that properly made

soap has no lye in it.

The hyroxide molecule causes the seperation of the glycerol molecule from

the fattly acids (tryiclycerides)

 and then the sodium or potassium combines with the free fatty acids to

create soap! Chemically, the lye is no longer there. A new substance has

been created. An acid (the oil) and an alkaline (lye) form into a salt

called soap. And in this soap is 25 % glycerin- the result of the first

seperation of the glycerol molecule. Truly a wonderful reaction and

resulting product!





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: endless carping - Off topic

From: Celeste <ckubasta@PIONEER.STATE.ND.US>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:35:55 -0800

--------

Dr. John Kosloski wrote:

> the content of what this list had to offer it's

> member's!  How dissappointing!

Yes - I've found out alot about herbs since joining this list.  I'm new

and have alot to learn but have found the varying opinions valuable as I

study and evaluate to make my own assessments.  Flame wars do happen,

but when I grew up our moms called it bickering.

I have never thought twice about posting and even posted off topic (for

my loving dog), ave never been flamed or received anything but good

advice from anyone, including Paul. He has valuable knowledge that he

shares but does allow himself to get off-topic when his style

(personality)ignites flames.  He shows a sense of humor and a heart but

tempers it with rough edges.  [hate to say it, but attributes often

found, IMHO, in older (60s) men who grew up not knowing how to deal with

the emotional side of life]



I thought part of becoming an adult was accepting others differences and

learning to appreciate them. Sometimes when I'm intolerant or upset, I

remember that this is how I have chosen to react to a situation and need

to reaccess my reaction. Sorry if I sound "preachy" but I'm a foster

mother who is constantly confronted by these situations and it's second

nature.



I'm probably inviting a flame war at me here but Valerie Worwood's book

"The Fragrant Mind" has valuable information on using essential oils for

emotional and psychological issues.  Please accept my apologies for

being off-topic and I hope that any flames will be sent to me

personnally and not tie up the list.  TIA --Celeste

ckubasta@pioneer.state.nd.us





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: On healing, was Re(2): I explained myself once

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:11:20 GMT

--------

> >Information is usually either an incentive to change,  or

> >simply a placebo, while the therapy works. Since most of the actual

> >informative context in Chinese healing is beyond the grasp of lay

> >persons, as is natural to a professional field, information-imparting is

> >by necessity a sideline.

>

> You have a more pessimistic view of individuals than I.



I don't think that is pessimism, more like practical knowledge after a long

period of examination.



>It has been my

> experience in my practice, that the more the patient understands what is

> happening, and the mechanics, the more long term benefit the patient

> receives.



Well, that just shouldn't be so, since the therapy is WITH PLANTS. Don't get

me wrong...I explain plenty. But I don't think the effect of that explaining

is really what we might call 'understanding' in a rational sense. It is a

symbolic exchange of healing idealities.



>Additionally, if one knows how to communicate well with the

> patient, just about anything is within their grasp.



Really not true. Do you think you can explain advanced mathematics to an

algebra student? Of course not. Again, some gesture could be imparted, but it

fails to be real understanding, which was my point. Not that it matters, mind

you, but there is no way to exchange chairs with the patient.



>Any treatment one

> engages in imparts information. I am interested in working as a team with

> my patients, which requires smooth dialog.



Yes, but there are limits to such rational therapy. When it comes to

perimeter of the rational, you cannot explain what has no words. I deal with

that periphery more and more, and find it VERY difficult to carry my or my

client's rationalist preferences there.



> >Sure. Am I supposed to be afraid of pride? Or toughness? I'm not in line

> >to become the next Mother Theresa, if that is what you mean.

> >Paul

>

> No, Paul that is not what I mean. Pride of toughness is a common quality

> amongst defeated combatants.



Pride in toughness is an utterly innate and natural condition of the human

psyche. It's like speaking French...it enables you to percolate in France.

Without being tough, there is no way I could peek behind the doors I do. I

have a natural and honorable appreciation for the process that led me to that

insight and opportunity...I respect myself for it. I see no reason to

apologize for it. Nor am I heavily inflated about it. I do not brag here of

my psychic abilities...I mention them, if pertinent. They are just another

part of the trial of existence and awareness, special only because few are

willing to pay the price of admission to those ranks.



>One can be defeated by their own pride. If

> you have studied martial arts, as you say, surely, you must have learned

> that your greatest enemy is always yourself.



That is a common ideality, yes, but I don't find that it is particularly

meaningful in the context of Taijiquan. Karate, maybe.



>In upper levels of martial

> arts training, one learns pride interferes with discernment and

> perception, leading to attention distracted toward pride, and away from

> positive results. In other words, on a practical vein, pride is just

> enough attention out of focus to distract attention from proper defense,

> or offense.

>

> James



Again, pretty much moot in the context of Taijiquan. In Taijiquan, defense IS

offense, and vice versa.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, was Re(2): I explained myself once

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:46:56 -0500

--------

In <923725790.10972599@lamg.com>, on 01/23/97 at 07:11 PM,

   Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> said:



>I don't think that is pessimism, more like practical knowledge after a

>long period of examination.



So. your experience is better than mine? Or is it different. Since my

results are different than yours (ALL of my patients understand FULLY)



>Well, that just shouldn't be so, since the therapy is WITH PLANTS. Don't

>get me wrong...I explain plenty. But I don't think the effect of that

>explaining is really what we might call 'understanding' in a rational

>sense. It is a symbolic exchange of healing idealities.



So, you have now decided, that my experience should not be so? With the

patient willing to be cured, and believing a cure is possible, there is no

cure.





>Really not true. Do you think you can explain advanced mathematics to an

>algebra student? Of course not.



Easily. Providing the algebra student is willing.



>Again, some gesture could be imparted,

>but it fails to be real understanding, which was my point. Not that it

>matters, mind you, but there is no way to exchange chairs with the

>patient.



I don't exchange chairs, I sit eye to eye, and experience. Aren't you

really saying that there is no way for you to relate fully with another?

My patients lack of knowledge is not a liability, for they know what they

do not know. The problem is with those who think that they know when they

don't. One like this is incapable of learning. Very sad. If you cannot

impart "real understanding" to a patient, is not possible that you have

not "really understood"?



>Yes, but there are limits to such rational therapy. When it comes to

>perimeter of the rational, you cannot explain what has no words. I deal

>with that periphery more and more, and find it VERY difficult to carry my

>or my client's rationalist preferences there.



Communication is not just words. You do not know what I cannot do, you

know what you cannot do. You cannot explain what you do not have words

for. This does not mean, that I or others, are so mystified and disabled.



>Pride in toughness is an utterly innate and natural condition of the

>human psyche. It's like speaking French...it enables you to percolate in

>France. Without being tough, there is no way I could peek behind the

>doors I do



Pride is innate to your condition and psyche. You have not met everyone.

Toughness is not the only way to perceive. Nor is toughness neccessary

when one moves fluidly. One only requires toughness to engage in combat. I

don't combat my patients, I educate them and teach them to heal

themselves.



>I have a natural and honorable appreciation for the process

>that led me to that insight and opportunity...

>I respect myself for it. I

>see no reason to apologize for it. Nor am I heavily inflated about it. I

>do not brag here of my psychic abilities...I mention them, if pertinent.

>They are just another part of the trial of existence and awareness,

>special only because few are willing to pay the price of admission to

>those ranks.



Are you on trial? Everyone is psychic. So? Do you feel that you are

superior to the rest of the population?



>That is a common ideality, yes, but I don't find that it is particularly

>meaningful in the context of Taijiquan. Karate, maybe.



Taijiquan. So, pride as a martial artist will help you to overcome a

superior opponent?



>Again, pretty much moot in the context of Taijiquan. In Taijiquan,

>defense IS offense, and vice versa.

>Paul



This is so in all martial arts. Pride still interferes with competence



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Yin Therapy, was Re(2): Info on DHEA

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:11:28 GMT

--------

> Could you provide the list examples of Yin-Boosting therapy for those

> interested in Chinese medicine?



In the context of life extension and deferral of aging, Yin Boosting

therapies are Cooling, restorative, balancing, and nourishing. They are NOT

stimulating or outward directed, though some plants like ginseng have both

capacities. Typical Yin Boosting in Chinese herbalism will involve plants,

foods, and practices that nourish the Kidney, Stomach, and Heart. One herb

example in the West of such therapy might be slippery elm: demulcent,

nourishing, Cooling, and balancing.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: healing style/s

From: "Kathryn M. Bensinger" <kbensin@MAIL.STATE.TN.US>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:17:52 PST

--------

There are times to practice "tough love" and times to

practice TLC.  Anyone who works with people (vs machines,

etc.)including healers knows when to push and when to pamper

and practices both.

--------------------------------------------------------

Name: Kathryn Bensinger  E-mail:kbensin@mail.state.tn.us

Date: 1/23/97             Time: 5:54:35 PM

--------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia

From: Scarlett <scarlett@CBOX.CBX.COM>

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:32:45 -0600

--------

I've got a friend at work who's known she'd had this disease for the 6

years I've known her.....and the results of her most recent bone marrow

test (about a month ago) showed that she's become immune to the

interferon. she's interested in trying to build up immunity through

herbal and natural treatment....in fact, she's ready to try just about

anything (short of doing the bone marrow transplant, which is a horrid

procedure to go through).



Any suggestions would be appreciated.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: CAT'S CLAW

From: "Renee D. Randolph" <ReneeWise@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:23:14 -0500

--------

I WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ON "CAT'S CLAW".  I CAN'T FIND IT IN MY HERB BOOKS.



RENEE WISE@AOL.COM





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: east vs west

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:13:21 GMT

--------

> Are you saying that the collected herbal knowledge of the west in

inaccurate;

> that eastern herbalism should be choosen over european, etc.?



Not inaccurate but not fully developed either. There are threads of real

knowledge, intermixed with a host of inaccuracies, misconceptions, borrowed

myths from 19th century conventional medicine, folk tales, huckster's lies,

and naturalistic and Naturopathic romanticism.



> I have difficulty rejecting something such as garlic for high blood

pressure

> when it so obviously works.



Well, it doesn't 'work' for someone whose hbp is due to Heat.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: east vs west

From: "Kathryn M. Bensinger" <kbensin@MAIL.STATE.TN.US>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:54:10 PST

--------

Paul,

Are you saying that the collected herbal knowledge of the west in inaccurate;

that eastern herbalism should be choosen over european, etc.?



I have difficulty rejecting something such as garlic for high blood pressure

when it so obviously works.

--------------------------------------------------------

Name: Kathryn Bensinger  E-mail:kbensin@mail.state.tn.us

Date: 1/24/97             Time: 9:48:01 AM

--------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: east vs west

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:14:46 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-24 13:36:19 EST, you write:



<< Well, it doesn't 'work' for someone whose hbp is due to Heat.



 Paul >>

I

Paul,



What are the causes for elevated BP caused by heat or by cold (I assume)?  My

father, now deceased, had high BP most of his life- he never weighed over 150

lbs (was 5'9" tall).  He was on medication for the BP, but I don't think it

helped a lot.  He had no kidney disease or vascular disease of which we are

aware.  I think the term used in reference to his PB was "idiopathic" high

bp.  Note of interest:  my father was an MD.  He was 76 when he died (due to

metastatic prostate cancer-- metastasis to skeletal and pulmonary systems),

but he had high BP years and years prior to that.  He was rather high strung

and had a volatile temperament, to put it mildly!



I'm concerned right now because my son, age 27, is starting to have BP

readings in the range of 140/90 --not due to exertion.  He is 6'4" and weighs

around 180 lbs.  He is a rather easy going, laid-back type of person, a

classical pianist and composer--plays in a band--not the type of personality

my father was at all!  He appears to be getting some food sensitivities-- has

racing pulse and feelings of anxiety after eating Oriental foods ----  Could

MSG be involved?  He does not drink coffee but does drink iced tea and colas

on occasion.



Any ideas fom that sketchy info?



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Myomectomy, was Re(2): A long winded introduction.

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:13:35 GMT

--------

> I just had a myomectomy (fibroid removal surgery) in November.  One fibroid

> was removed, another was not (couldn't reach it).  Prior to surgery, I felt

> lousy.  After surgery, even though I still have one fibroid, I feel great.

I

> cut way back on stimulants (unfortunately, still have one cup of coffee

each

> day but no other caffeine),  am getting 8 hours of sleep a night (whereas I

> was really pushing myself before), am walking to keep fit, eating much

> better, taking vitamins, and have generally changed the way I view life.  I

> refuse to let stress get the better of me.



Also, surgical removal IS a form of reducing Excess therapy. Provided you

shore up your Qi, so that the hole in your body doesn't leak (I kid you not),

the net result can be positive. It is really like having an excellent stool,

if you pardon the reference. I'm happy to hear that you are now taking your

SELF health care seriously. Without that, we are sadsacks indeed.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 22 Jan 1997 to 23 Jan 1997

From: skm <skm@GIASBM01.VSNL.NET.IN>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:12:45 +0530

--------

hi herb lovers,

i m interested in attending a international trade fair on herbs

(preferably in Germany)

can anyone kindly provide info in this regard

thanks in advance

suresh



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suresh Meghwani                    ^

   B.Com,L.L.B.                    $    Exporters of Indian Herbs

Director                           $

Hygienic Nature Care(India) Ltd.   $

357 Main Road,                     $tel : 91-771-536031

Samta colony,                      $fax : 91-771-534632

Raipur 492001 (M.P.)               $

India                              $

----------------------------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: HERB Digest - 22 Jan 1997 to 23 Jan 1997

From: skm <skm@GIASBM01.VSNL.NET.IN>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:12:45 +0530

--------

hi herb lovers,

i m interested in attending a international trade fair on herbs

(preferably in Germany)

can anyone kindly provide info in this regard

thanks in advance

suresh



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suresh Meghwani                    ^

   B.Com,L.L.B.                    $    Exporters of Indian Herbs

Director                           $

Hygienic Nature Care(India) Ltd.   $

357 Main Road,                     $tel : 91-771-536031

Samta colony,                      $fax : 91-771-534632

Raipur 492001 (M.P.)               $

India                              $

----------------------------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: mothers, babies, maybe other things

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:57:05 +0100

--------

Re the recent discussions about baby care: in the hopes that this might be

useful to any mothers out there I take pen to hand. You know sometimes you

know something (or think you know something) and believe that everyone

knows it too just because it's obvious to you. So at the risk of being

repetitious, obnoxious and in a worst case scenario, deleted...

        The relationship of the mothers's intake of being food is directly related

to the nourishment of the baby, whether in utero or by breast feeding. I

think this must be obvious to everyone here. One would assume a little more

so when the connection is by umbilical cord than through the intake of

mother's milk, but not by much. A mother during the breast feeding phase

should continue being extremely careful of what she takes in. She may be

eating something innocuous to her (like a strong vegetable, one of the

brassicas for example) that may be upsetting to the infant.

        Food in itself, contrary to popular belief, is *not* what nourishes us but

food  (hopefully, depending on a wide variety of factors) *contains*  the

substances that *can*  support not only life but health as well if our

bodies are able to extract them. (another rap someday, hopefully). Just

witness the vast post-extraction *residues* from what we eat that we send

into the rivers and to the bottoms of the oceans. (By the way, you're not

even allowed to *mention* the common name of these residues on TV or in

most newspapers).

        These extracted substances, eventually, after being removed from the bulk

food eaten by the mother, from the substances extracted from the liquid

matter drunk and even substances extracted from the air breathed will pass

into her milk and so on to the baby. Mother's milk, in this case being the

delivery mechanism for the life giving substances available from the

mother's body.

        This is why sometimes one of the preferred methods of giving the baby

herbs (medicines) is through the mother. What I am leading up to say here

is that on one occasion my teacher, a person whom I respected, who hardly

ever spoke about herbs, at least in my presence did so once and what he

said was that weak herb teas, served barely warm, can be given from birth.

He mentioned camomille, the mints, lemon verbena and lemon grass as the

only ones definitely OK for babies; the others having medicinal effects.

(Someone more knowledgeable than me can correct me if I'm wrong here. I

only pass along what I myself was instructed). Coffee and tea being obvious

no-nos.

        On occasions when I happen to see a pregnant woman or a breast-feeding

woman smoking a cigarette it gives me the shivers. Though my own ego causes

me to lose respect I have learned to generally keep quiet about these

things. As a farmer I know it is impossible to plant on ground that hasn't

been plowed beforehand. You *can*, but you will get little or no result.

The human mind will in general treat a new idea in the same way the body

treats a strange protein, by rejecting it.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: incredible living room mess and aftermath

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:00:54 +0100

--------

I remember Paul mentioning a while back that his posts might cause migraine

in some. Reading the recent batch of posts, that went under the subject

header "carping", definitely caused a certain type of distress in me. It

literally felt like I had left the front door wide open and this wild herd

of rampaging elephants had  invaded the house and stampeded through my

living room. (As you all probably know *real* men don't delete or filter

anything), so I received the full brunt force of it right in the chest. I

got up quickly and ran to open the back door of the house hoping they would

find their way out without injuring either anybody else or themselves.



        I cured myself by taking a tea made from something local called Tila. A

kind of calming herb that people around here use. I *think* the translation

in English is Linden Blossom flowers. Would anyone have any information for

me about this?



        As an aside, when I was drinking it during one of my classes, I take a

thermos to class, one of my eight year olds, Luis Miguel, (LuisMa to his

friends) said, (in Spanish of course), "You're drinking Tila." This, after

I made a big show of teaching them "It's tea time."  They couldn't believe

it when I began to take out a cup and thermos from my bag. What I'm trying

to say is that the use of various herbal remedies is still very much in the

culture here. Would you believe an average 8 year old in the States

identifying the herb tea you were drinking by its smell?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: CAT'S CLAW (some what long)

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:44:31 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-24 02:15:45 EST, you write:



<< I WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ON "CAT'S CLAW".  I CAN'T FIND IT IN MY HERB

BOOKS. >>



Here is information that I posted in September 96.  [It is strange that you

requested this today as I was discussing this plant with another list member

yesterday(off the list though).]  COMMERCIAL DISCLAIMER APPLIES!!!!!!!



Cat's Claw (Uncaria Tomentosa, Gmel. Rubiaceae) or Una de Gato, Paraguayo,

Garabato, Una de Gavilan, or Hawk's Claw.   Uncaria guianesis is also known

as Cat's Claw or Una de Gato and is a related species.



Uncaria (Rubiaceae) has several species including: uncaria attenuata, U.

bernaysii, U. calophylla, U. elleptica, U. ferrea DC, U. gambir, U.

Guianensis, U. kawakamii, U. orientalis, U. pteropoda, and U. rhyncophylla.



Active compounds in the plant:  oxindole-alkaloids (pteropodine,

isopteropodine, speciophylline, uncarine, mitraphylline, isomitraphylline),

N-oxide, rhynocophylline

N-oxide carboline alkaloid, hirustine N-oxide triterpenes, polyphynols,

phytosterols (stigmasterol and campsterol).  The family Rubiaceae, to which

Cat's Claw belongs, is rich in triterpenoid saponins.  Phytochemical studies

of the root bark resulted in the isolation of the main alkaloid called

isoteropodine.  In addition, Peruvian and Italian researchers have discovered

a whole host of phytochemicals including proanthocyanidin, which has already

established itself as a powerful antioxidant.



Character:  anti-inflammatory, anti-rheumatic, antioxidant, anti-viral,

anti-tumor, anti-mocrobial, cytostatic activities, immune system enhancer,

and contraceptive.



Body systems targeted:  immune system. intestinal system, and cardiovascular

system.



Safety:  studies have shown that Uncaria tomentosa has extremely low toxicity

even when taken in large doses.  It should not be taken, however, by anyone

who has had an organ transplant, or by pregnant or nursing women.



The Uncaria vine commonly grows in the foothills of the Amazon and along its

river banks, taking a great deal of time to grow and mature.  It isn't

unusual for a Uncaria vine to take more than 20 years to reach full size,

which can be over 100 feet in length.  Uncaria species typically grow in

jungle regions from the Amazonian Basin in the south, to the jungle areas of

Junin.  Current harvesting of the Uncaria vine involves only the bark.  The

roots of the plant are carefully protected in order to preserve the plant and

further its propagation.  The Peruvian government has taken certain steps to

ensure that supplies of Uncaria will not become exhausted due to imprudent

harvesting.  Peruvian legislation has made harvesting the root of both U.

tomentose and U. guianensis illegal.  this ruling is not problematic for

medical botanists because the bark contains all the therapeutic attributes of

the herb.  The edible bark of both species grows back and continually

replinishes itself.  On the other hand, extricating or cutting the root

causes the vine to perish.



Cat's Claw has traditionally been used to treat arthritis, gastritis, tumors,

dysentery, and female hormonal imbalances.  Today, the plant has demonstrated

the ability to treat viral infections, minimize infalmmation, and provide

therapeutic action for a variety of stomach and bowel disorders.  Phillip N.

Steinberg, a Certified Nutritinal consultant has stated:  "Uncaria tomentosa

has so many therapeutic applications that it seems to far surpass such well

known herbs as Pau d'arco, echinacea, goldenseal, astragalus, Artemesia

annua, Siberian and Panax ginsing, as well as maitake, shiitake, and reishi

mushrooms and other natural products including grapefruit seed extract,

caprylic and lauric acids and shark cartilage" (from the Biology of Vines)



Four of the alkaloids found in Cat's Claw exhibit significant activity on

phagocytosis (the process in which certain white blood cells called

macrophages attack and literally digest infectious organisms and foreign

invaders in the body).



The antioxidant action of Cat's Claw:  several studies have concluded that

Uncaria isolates have several beneficial constituents which act as free

radical scavengers.  Isolates of the plant have the ability to protect the

cells from mutating, which is what occurs when tumors develope.  This

anti-mutagenis activity was observed by Italian researchers in 1992 at the

University of Milan. Smoking is one of the worst sources of oxidative stress

caused by the release of millions of free radicals. The Italian researchers

studied the effects of an aqueous alcoholic infusion of Uncatia tomentosa on

people who smoke.  The results showed antimutagenic activity in vivo in

smokers, confirming the plant's high antioxidant potential.  Cat's Claw can

help protect cells from a number of potentially harmful environmental

substances including:  herbicides, pesticides, smog, car exhaust,x-rays,

ultra-violet light, gamma radiation, rancid foods, certain fats, alcohol,

stress, and poor diets that are high in fat and protein.



The high content of proanthocyanidins in Cat's Claw  aids in capillary

protection, anti-inflammatory action in cases of joint pain and injuries,

anti-edemic, antihistamine, reduces the risk of diabetic complications such

as retinopathy.



The rynchophylline found in Cat's Claw has proven itself to be an inhibiot of

platelet formation and thrombosis.  This means that it inhibits the formation

of blood clots.  The alkaloid compounds in Cat's Claw may reduce the risk of

stroke and heart attack.  It also enhances the circulation of the blood and

lessens the formation of arterial plaque deposits.



The immune system boosting effects of Cat's Claw:  effective against colds,

flu, sore throats, herpes, colitis, etc.  It is a natural anti-viral and

immune systerm booster.  Krallendon, an extract of Uncaria tomentose is the

bioactive component of the plant which has been used to successfully treat

genital herpes, herpes zoster, and AIDS (used by Dr. Dietmar Keplinger).

 Various biological activities have been attributed to the triterpenoid

saponins found in Cat's Claw.  Glycoside glycyrrhizin and glycyrrhetinic acid

have exhibited the ability to inhibit the multiplication of some DNA viruses.

 In addition, all nine compounds (from Cat's Claw) tested showed an

inhibitory effect against the vesicular stomatitis virus when used in certain

concentrations.



Krallendon is the commercial name for one of the constituents of Uncaria

tomentosa that has been used to treat AIDS patients either as an isolated

treatment or in conjunction with AZT.  This combination apparently helps to

inhibit the reproduction of the HIV virus in the blood while it

simultaneously activates the immune system.  This same effect was seen on

cancerous cells.  European health practitioners are currently testing and

using Cat' Claw as a potential treatment for various cancers.  Cat's Claw may

work to lower the resk of cancer in two ways. It has the ability to act as an

antioxidant and may scavenge for carcinogenic substances which can cause the

formation of cancer cells.  In addition, scientific studies may have shown

that it can specifically target cellular mutations such as leukemic cells and

inhibit their development.  During the course of Austrian research on Cat's

Claw, its oxindole alkaloids were tested for their antileukemic effects on

cells which may suggest that these compounds have value as treatments for

leukemia.  Colormetric testing  was only one of the ways the compounds were

tested and showed that all the oxindole alkaloids, with the exception of one,

inhibited the growth of certain leukemic cells.  Interestingly, while

leukemic cell activity was inhibited, normal bone marror cells were not

affected.  Cat's Claw also supports the body during chemotherapy and

radiation threatments, working as an antioxidant in helping to remove toxic

metabolites and in providing support to an already weakened immune system.



Sorry this has gone on for so long but I hope it gives you some useful

information.  I have used Cat's Claw regularly for about a year.  If I think

I may be getting a cold or sore throat, I take it every two hours. I have not

had a cold or cough since I've been taking the Cat's Claw (which is important

because I'm a church organist and music director and I used to get laryngitis

about the time we had our annual Christmas Cantata rehearsals and I would

always lose my voice!). I used it as a last resort on a cat that had had

multiple surgeries to close a surgical wound that wouldn't heal (had fat

necrosis etc,).  I figured that it couldn't hurt the situation.  I mixed the

Cat's Claw in an ointment base and put it on the incision which was draining

and open after several weeks of healing time.  The next day the incision was

closed.  My vet still can't explain what happened.  I told him what I did but

he wasn't familiar with the herb.  I can't explain it either, but it worked!!



My husband has always been an advocate of vitamins and herbs but I have been

a fan of the medical establishment as I have a degree in clinical chemistry

and microbiology and my family members were medical prefessionals (MD's and

RN's).  Guess I've finally been won over to the benefits of some alternative

medicines.





Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:50:51 GMT

--------

> You can give someone an herb, but

> >ultimately, they are responsible for the outcome. They are causing their

> >own ignorance, and their own knowledge.



Utter and complete nonsense. Welcome to the 20th century, what is left of it.

Take a class in chemistry. If I give you a big dose of senna, you aren't

going no where for several hours. That has BUPKIS to do with your ignorance

or knowledge.



> Your perception is truly remarkable, James.  I wish more people could see

> these things themselves.  It's true Paul, when all the props are put aside

> the person themselves have chosen the healing and used you and the prop to

> accomplish it.



That may be an article of faith for you, but it is an irrational view that

presupposes a whole series of issues that I am fairly certain you are not

equipped to debate.



>You mentioned in response to my drinking coffee that you

> couldn't heal me with my attitude, and my response was a little chuckle

> along with "you can't heal me anyway".  By the way, isn't that the same

> meaning as what James wrote, worded differently?  My "attitude" could

> prevent my healing....  really?  You agreed with him, why argue now?



Your actions of clinging to a practice that is degenerating your health will

block healing, yes. It has nothing to do with attitude. 'Wording,' to someone

like you, is apparently a matter of rephrasing what someone says to make it

seem like what you want to hear.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:56:31 GMT

--------

> >Where does the root of bitterness bloom in ones life?  Would one see that

> >bloom if their eyes were underground?  Coffee comes and goes from my

> >life, and it's bitterness is a temporary leaf blowing with the wind my

> >friend, not something rooted in my heart.

>

> >Denise



No, it is rooted in your Liver. And you may have a bear of a time getting it

out of there. It has already hatched eggs in your womb. And you brag of it???



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:39:34 -0500

--------

In <978910.16331707@lamg.com>, on 01/24/97 at 07:56 PM,

   Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> said:



>> >Where does the root of bitterness bloom in ones life?  Would one see that

>> >bloom if their eyes were underground?  Coffee comes and goes from my

>> >life, and it's bitterness is a temporary leaf blowing with the wind my

>> >friend, not something rooted in my heart.

>>

>> >Denise



>No, it is rooted in your Liver. And you may have a bear of a time getting

>it out of there. It has already hatched eggs in your womb. And you brag

>of it???



>Paul



Denise,



In spite of Paul's ranting about where he "thinks" disease is rooted, The

bitterness is as you have stated, in the the heart. This heart which you

speak is  unknown to Paul, perhaps he will one day learn.   Hatred in the

heart manifest as harping criticism of those who would show Paul the way,

if his heart were open to learn.



Relax and have a cup of mocha, it won't hurt you or help you unless you

believe it will.



Paul,



Sit down and have a cup of your favorite relaxing tea, and use it as an

excuse to feel peace.





James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: Denise Brown <deniseb@UP.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:02:17 -0500

--------

Excerpt from the exchange between Paul and James on 01/24/97:



>

>>Well, these are as pompous a set of words as you are accusing me of. Your

>>therapy is perfection itself, it seems. And you teach them to heal

>>THEMSELVES! How lovely.

>

>Pompous requires inaccuracy. Are you opposed to individuals healing

>themselves? Actually, you don't  heal anybody, neither do I. Everyone does

>it themselves, using healers, plants, drugs, surgery, vitamins as props.

>Those are tools. Hammers don't pound nails, they are used to pound nails.

>The nail pounder is the culprit. You can give someone an herb, but

>ultimately, they are responsible for the outcome. They are causing their

>own ignorance, and their own knowledge.



Your perception is truly remarkable, James.  I wish more people could see

these things themselves.  It's true Paul, when all the props are put aside

the person themselves have chosen the healing and used you and the prop to

accomplish it.  You mentioned in response to my drinking coffee that you

couldn't heal me with my attitude, and my response was a little chuckle

along with "you can't heal me anyway".  By the way, isn't that the same

meaning as what James wrote, worded differently?  My "attitude" could

prevent my healing....  really?  You agreed with him, why argue now?



>> What, do they design their own plants in an

>>evolutionary laboratory in their closet?

>

>This is entertainment right?

>

>>If people can heal themselves,

>>what need do they have of plants? Placebo?

>

>Yes, The plants are a prop. sometimes they are of help, sometimes not. It

>depends on how that individual has got things wired.







                                                   o o

Denise

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:08:17 -0500

--------

In <9701242302.AA25967@btc1>, on 01/24/97 at 06:02 PM,

   Denise Brown <deniseb@UP.NET> said:



>Your perception is truly remarkable, James.  I wish more people could see

>these things themselves.



Denise,



Thankyou, but really no more remarkable than your perception, as you have

seen it is yours also!



The key to this type of perception is differentiation. If the patient can

be shown the difference between the illness and themselves, they can

cultivate the "attitude " required for the "cure" An illness is made much

worse (through the mechanics of condensation) when the individual is

introverted into the illness. When they cannot differentiate the

perception becomes narrow and stilted and the body bears the brunt of the

attitude. The herbs used act like any other drug, they hide the cause of

the disease, which always the same. The individual possessing the disease.

Herbs and other drugs, can be used effectively by the conscious individual

to make the road to healing much more comfortable. But, the "patient" must

always remember, it is they, not the practitioner or the substance that

effects the cure.



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: Denise Brown <deniseb@UP.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 20:54:41 -0500

--------

>>You mentioned in response to my drinking coffee that you

>> couldn't heal me with my attitude, and my response was a little chuckle

>> along with "you can't heal me anyway".  By the way, isn't that the same

>> meaning as what James wrote, worded differently?  My "attitude" could

>> prevent my healing....  really?  You agreed with him, why argue now?

>

>Your actions of clinging to a practice that is degenerating your health will

>block healing, yes. It has nothing to do with attitude. 'Wording,' to someone

>like you, is apparently a matter of rephrasing what someone says to make it

>seem like what you want to hear.

>

>Paul





Where does the root of bitterness bloom in ones life?  Would one see that

bloom if their eyes were underground?  Coffee comes and goes from my life,

and it's bitterness is a temporary leaf blowing with the wind my friend, not

something rooted in my heart.



Denise





                                                   o o

Denise

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:07:27 -0500

--------

In <9701250154.AA07681@btc1>, on 01/24/97 at 08:54 PM,

   Denise Brown <deniseb@UP.NET> said:



>Where does the root of bitterness bloom in ones life?  Would one see that

>bloom if their eyes were underground?  Coffee comes and goes from my

>life, and it's bitterness is a temporary leaf blowing with the wind my

>friend, not something rooted in my heart.



>Denise



Splendid poetry.





James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:11:23 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-25 11:52:22 EST, you write:



<< Sit down and have a cup of your favorite relaxing tea, and use it as an

 excuse to feel peace.





 James

  >>



I've been reading all the messages that you have posted lately and I am

wondering the same thing that some on the list asked Paul:  Exactly what

training, qualifications, certifications do you have?  What kind of "healer"

are you?  What methods do you use?  Do you really mean that if I DECIDE I am

going to have glaucoma, for instance, that my body will respond and create

that disease?



Just intellectual curiosity!!



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing

From: "Anne M. Smyth" <Amsmyth@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:29:28 -0500

--------

"Pompous requires inaccuracy"  No, pompous requires knowledge and accuracy.

 You might benefit from a session or two with a dictionary.  Inaccuracy is

inaccuracy, not because you don't agree with it but because it is inaccurate.

 Pomposity can also carry an aspect of stately splendor or magnificence which

has, historically, prompted the uneducated to wish to tear it down. Anne





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:01:50 GMT

--------

> >Well, if they understand FULLY, as you say, then it surprises me that

> >they don't just heal themselves. Whatever you can explain to them about

> >the process, they certainly do not retain it intact.

>

> They do heal themselves, and they do retain. It's in the teaching method.



You are talking nonsense. What are you talking about? What is your modality

of therapy?



> >You left something out. As far as I can tell, this makes no sense.

>

> restate: With the patient unwilling to be cured, and not believing a cure

> is possible, there is no possibility for a cure.



Bullshit. If a person has a heart valve defect, and it is surgically

corrected, there is cure whether or not the person believes in the therapy or

not.



> >Riight. So there is no professional knowledge that requires years of

> >effort to acquire. You can lay it all off on your patients. Amazing.

>

> Apparently things come to you in a difficult fashion. This has not been my

> experience. I do not lay anything on my patients, nor do I make them

> dependent upon me. I teach them to heal. This requires they admit

> ignorance.



Wow. You must be talking about Reiki, right?



> >I don't know what you mean 'relate fully.' What exactly do you do to

> >'relate fully'?

>

> Without barriers in between.



Without barriers? How is that accomplished? Clearly, you are not talking

about plant healing. Reiki, right?



>I assume absolute responsibility for the

> condition of the patient, and hand that absolute responsibility back to

> them at their optimal rate of absorption.

>

> >We aren't talking about 'relationship,' we are talking

> >about information exchange.

>

> I have relationships with my patients.



Really??? Wow. I am suitably impressed. A healer who relates to his patients.

An astounding anomaly indeed.



> >How could you possibly 'relate fully,' in the

> >sense of equally, with another in a healing context? It is a hierarchal

> >interaction. They come to you for your expertise, not for a chat on a

> >shared topic of knowledge.

>

> If they want my expertise, we then have a shared interest.



Not a shared interest, a shared KNOWLEDGE BASE. You are just changing the

focus to escape the implications of what you have been saying.



>Because I have

> greater knowledge in an area does not make me a greater person.



But it DOES make you a part of a hierarchal relationship, not a relationship

of equals.



>It makes

> me a person with greater knowledge.



How can that be? The knowledge can be exchanged instantaneously, after all.



>Knowledge of which I am a willing to

> share with my patients in our mutually beneficial relationship. I have yet

> to meet a patient that I did not learn something new from, and of value to

> my practice.



Well, that is utterly passe. Of course you learn from being a healer, but

that has NOTHING to do with what you were proposing a few minutes back.



> >Ridiculous. Patients don't have a clue what they don't know, or they

> >wouldn't be sick. They know THAT they don't know, which is why they are

> >coming to you.

>

> Patients will tell the healer the cure every time, if the healer is paying

> attention the patient, and not his/her  own ego.



More patented nonsense. The day a patient tells me which herbs to use, is the

day I retire as an herbalist. MY EGO IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS THE PLANTS, not

the patient's.



>>Kind of healing

> work? It has no name. People get well.



Then it isn't plant-based healing, so it isn't pertinent to this list. Why

didn't you say so to start with?



> Are you opposed to individuals healing

> themselves? Actually, you don't  heal anybody, neither do I. Everyone does

> it themselves, using healers, plants, drugs, surgery, vitamins as props.

> Those are tools. Hammers don't pound nails, they are used to pound nails.

> The nail pounder is the culprit. You can give someone an herb, but

> ultimately, they are responsible for the outcome. They are causing their

> own ignorance, and their own knowledge.



Pound that nail with your hand, see how it feels. Clearly, you don't

understand the difference between a tool and a Placebo.



> Everyone is psychic. There are degrees to the manifestation of psychic

> ability.  All see. some are unaware of what they see. Seeing and acting

> upon what one sees.



If you are unaware of what you see, then you don't see.



> Do you feel that you are superior to the rest of the population?



Most of it, sure.



> Are you on trial?

>

> James



Absolutely. Spirit tries us to see if we are fit to walk on.



Since you are outside the purview of this list, your views on healing are

moot. I don't intend to continue to debate non-plant based healing in this

forum [applause].



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:47:29 -0500

--------

In <3004071260.12687733@lamg.com>, on 01/24/97 at 12:45 AM,

   Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> said:



>Well, if they understand FULLY, as you say, then it surprises me that

>they don't just heal themselves. Whatever you can explain to them about

>the process, they certainly do not retain it intact.



They do heal themselves, and they do retain. It's in the teaching method.



>You left something out. As far as I can tell, this makes no sense.



restate: With the patient unwilling to be cured, and not believing a cure

is possible, there is no possibility for a cure.



>Riight. So there is no professional knowledge that requires years of

>effort to acquire. You can lay it all off on your patients. Amazing.



Apparently things come to you in a difficult fashion. This has not been my

experience. I do not lay anything on my patients, nor do I make them

dependent upon me. I teach them to heal. This requires they admit

ignorance.



>I don't know what you mean 'relate fully.' What exactly do you do to

>'relate fully'?



Without barriers in between. I assume absolute responsibility for the

condition of the patient, and hand that absolute responsibility back to

them at their optimal rate of absorption.



>We aren't talking about 'relationship,' we are talking

>about information exchange.



I have relationships with my patients.





>How could you possibly 'relate fully,' in the

>sense of equally, with another in a healing context? It is a hierarchal

>interaction. They come to you for your expertise, not for a chat on a

>shared topic of knowledge.



If they want my expertise, we then have a shared interest. Because I have

greater knowledge in an area does not make me a greater person. It makes

me a person with greater knowledge. Knowledge of which I am a willing to

share with my patients in our mutually beneficial relationship. I have yet

to meet a patient that I did not learn something new from, and of value to

my practice.



>Ridiculous. Patients don't have a clue what they don't know, or they

>wouldn't be sick. They know THAT they don't know, which is why they are

>coming to you.



Patients will tell the healer the cure every time, if the healer is paying

attention the patient, and not his/her  own ego.



>You are just talking your way into believing nonsense.



So, when you are spotted as confused, you dismiss  all of your

misunderstandings as nonsensical?



>Then you haven't met spirit in the terms that I have, I guess. If you

>really believe you can enter a healing interaction from the standpoint of

>total sharing, then you must be VERY entertaining. What kind of healing

>work do you do?



You must have not met spirit in the terms I do. I don't believe in total

sharing, I do it. I am glad that you are entertained. Kind of healing

work? It has no name. People get well.



>Well, these are as pompous a set of words as you are accusing me of. Your

>therapy is perfection itself, it seems. And you teach them to heal

>THEMSELVES! How lovely.



Pompous requires inaccuracy. Are you opposed to individuals healing

themselves? Actually, you don't  heal anybody, neither do I. Everyone does

it themselves, using healers, plants, drugs, surgery, vitamins as props.

Those are tools. Hammers don't pound nails, they are used to pound nails.

The nail pounder is the culprit. You can give someone an herb, but

ultimately, they are responsible for the outcome. They are causing their

own ignorance, and their own knowledge.



> What, do they design their own plants in an

>evolutionary laboratory in their closet?



This is entertainment right?



>If people can heal themselves,

>what need do they have of plants? Placebo?



Yes, The plants are a prop. sometimes they are of help, sometimes not. It

depends on how that individual has got things wired.



>Everyone is psychic? What universe do you live in? Almost NO ONE is

>psychic. How many people do you think SEE Qi? Certainly not 'everyone,'

>or this would be a very different world indeed!



Everyone is psychic. There are degrees to the manifestation of psychic

ability.  All see. some are unaware of what they see. Seeing and acting

upon what one sees.



Do you feel that you are superior to the rest of the population?



Are you on trial?



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:56:44 GMT

--------

> I am spirit.



<belch>



> Most of your philosophy falls outside this list. This is not the Qi list

> either.



Qi is a major concept in the largest and possibly most ancient plant healing

approach in history. It is entirely an appropriate subject for this list. We

don't yet have a list for your brandless, nameless, incapable of description,

flawless, infinite, unaided, entirely excellent and divine form of healing.

So it isn't surprising that it is impossible to engage your ideas on any real

level, since you are indeed above any form of learning in this forum. What

need have you for a computer list on plants? You already have all you need.



>The above is a sign of a lost argument stated by a half asleep

> combatant. This fits on this list, because I am talking about the

> relevancy of herbs to healing. Are you applauding yourself? Again?



Relevency of herbs to healing? That isn't the subject matter of this list.

This list is about the USE of herbs in healing. If you wish to overthrow the

entire subject matter of the list, then you don't belong on it, period. All

of your posts are thereby essentially OFF TOPIC. Shoe in the ass is all I can

hope for you from Henriette.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:15:22 -0500

--------

>> I am spirit.

><belch>



Ah, so the spirit gives you indigestion...;-)



>> Most of your philosophy falls outside this list. This is not the Qi list

>> either.



>Qi is a major concept in the largest and possibly most ancient plant

>healing approach in history. It is entirely an appropriate subject for

>this list.



Qi is no more an herb, than melatonin. If Qi is to be discussed because it

is a concept basic to chinese herbal lore, anything which impacts the body

could be considered germain. Or anything basic to any medical tradition.

All medical traditions use herbs.



>We don't yet have a list for your brandless, nameless,

>incapable of description, flawless, infinite, unaided, entirely excellent

>and divine form of healing.



Thanks.



>So it isn't surprising that it is impossible

>to engage your ideas on any real level, since you are indeed above any

>form of learning in this forum.



I have no difficulty engaging. The ideas apparently irritate your liver.

Try a liver cleanse, and use that to excuse your understanding.



>What need have you for a computer list on

>plants?



What need have you? Aren't a self proclaimed expert?





>You already have all you need.



True enough.



>Relevency of herbs to healing? That isn't the subject matter of this

>list. This list is about the USE of herbs in healing. If you wish to

>overthrow the entire subject matter of the list, then you don't belong on

>it, period. All of your posts are thereby essentially OFF TOPIC. Shoe in

>the ass is all I can hope for you from Henriette.



Herbs aren't used for healing. They are used to excuse healing. Discussing

the use, or non use of herbs in healing is on topic. Getting herbs to be

looked at in thier proper alignment to various practices is germain.



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:00:58 EST

--------

James...



>>Qi is no more an herb, than melatonin>>  Qi in TCM is energy, more

yang.  Blood = denser & more material aspect of energy (therefore yin).

The definition of Qi is very hard to translate.  If I remember correctly

from a class of TCM, Qi is "vital energy and/or Life force.



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:26:45 -0500

--------

>You are talking nonsense. What are you talking about? What is your

>modality of therapy?



Show the patient the truth of their disease. You call nonsense, what you

cannot comprehend.



>Bullshit. If a person has a heart valve defect, and it is surgically

>corrected, there is cure whether or not the person believes in the

>therapy or not.



If the surgical correction happens, the body will manifest the disease in

a different location. It will be the same disease in a different form.

Surgery does not correct causes, it corrects symptoms. As do herbs and

other drugs.



>Wow. You must be talking about Reiki, right?



Wrong. I don't do energy work. That would be same modality, as you,  on

different frequency. Reiki doesn't work, for the same reason surgery

doesn't work, it just shifts disease around to a new mode of display



>Without barriers? How is that accomplished? Clearly, you are not talking

>about plant healing. Reiki, right?



Wrong again, Reiki imposes the same type of barriers between practitioner

and patient that you do. I am talking about HEALING. How? The method is

not mechanical. Reiki is as mechanical as herbs.



>Really??? Wow. I am suitably impressed. A healer who relates to his

>patients. An astounding anomaly indeed.



Perhaps for you.



>Not a shared interest, a shared KNOWLEDGE BASE. You are just changing the

>focus to escape the implications of what you have been saying.



Nope. A shared interest. They want to be healed, I want to show them how

to heal themselves.



>But it DOES make you a part of a hierarchal relationship, not a

>relationship of equals.



We are spiritual equals. I may have greater understanding about the "cure"

But, when the "cure" is effected, it could be argued that the patient has

greater understanding of the disease than the practitioner.



>How can that be? The knowledge can be exchanged instantaneously, after

>all.



What's your point?



>Well, that is utterly passe. Of course you learn from being a healer, but

>that has NOTHING to do with what you were proposing a few minutes back.



It has everything to do with what I have pointed out.



>More patented nonsense. The day a patient tells me which herbs to use, is

>the day I retire as an herbalist. MY EGO IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS THE

>PLANTS, not the patient's.



Your ego is the one that thinks you have the power to heal. You have no

such power, and neither do the vegetables.



>Then it isn't plant-based healing, so it isn't pertinent to this list.

>Why didn't you say so to start with?



I use healing based healing. When I use plants, its a prop.



>> Are you opposed to individuals healing

>> themselves? Actually, you don't  heal anybody, neither do I. Everyone does

>> it themselves, using healers, plants, drugs, surgery, vitamins as props.

>> Those are tools. Hammers don't pound nails, they are used to pound nails.

>> The nail pounder is the culprit. You can give someone an herb, but

>> ultimately, they are responsible for the outcome. They are causing their

>> own ignorance, and their own knowledge.



>Pound that nail with your hand, see how it feels. Clearly, you don't

>understand the difference between a tool and a Placebo.



Thanks you just restated the point. In your example: I still made the hand

hurt. the hammer did not do it. I did it, using the hammer. Tools don't

accomplish work, workers accomplish work using tools.



So, in failing to answer the above question, you admit you are opposed to

individuals healing themselves?



>> Everyone is psychic. There are degrees to the manifestation of psychic

>> ability.  All see. some are unaware of what they see. Seeing and acting

>> upon what one sees.



>If you are unaware of what you see, then you don't see.



Yes you do, You see unconsciously. Everyone is psychic.



>> Do you feel that you are superior to the rest of the population?



>Most of it, sure.



You proclaim your inferiority.



>Absolutely. Spirit tries us to see if we are fit to walk on.



I am spirit. You are only under trial, when you have got something to

prove. If you are spirit, you are trying yourself. Why do you have a need

to be superior? Are you suffering from an unbalanced Qi?



>Since you are outside the purview of this list, your views on healing are

>moot. I don't intend to continue to debate non-plant based healing in

>this forum [applause].



Most of your philosophy falls outside this list. This is not the Qi list

either. The above is a sign of a lost argument stated by a half asleep

combatant. This fits on this list, because I am talking about the

relevancy of herbs to healing. Are you applauding yourself? Again?



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:39:07 GMT

--------

> Herbs aren't used for healing. They are used to excuse healing. Discussing

> the use, or non use of herbs in healing is on topic. Getting herbs to be

> looked at in thier proper alignment to various practices is germain.



The word is germane.



Herbs are obviously used in healing, and they are the basis of healing in

most cases. Placebo, which is what you confuse for herbalism, is a conception

belonging to childish approaches to treating patients with illness that

propose that cure is wholly a mental phenomena.



You are off-topic.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:09:10 -0800

--------

At 09:00 AM 1/25/97 EST, you wrote:

>James...

>

>>>Qi is no more an herb, than melatonin>>  Qi in TCM is energy, more

>yang.  Blood = denser & more material aspect of energy (therefore yin).

>The definition of Qi is very hard to translate.  If I remember correctly

>from a class of TCM, Qi is "vital energy and/or Life force.

>

>-Heidi-

>



We've grappled with trying to find a western word to define Qi, or ch'i,

time again.  Correct me if I'm on the wrong path, Paul, but it isn't exactly

energy in the strict sense.  Jing is energy from eating.  Shen is energy

from breathing.  But, as I read more about five element thinking, it looks

to me that Qi is the connection between the organs.  As in, Spleen/Stomach

(Earth) gives Qi to Lung/Large Intestine (Metal) which in turn gives Qi to

Kidney/Bladder (Water) which gives Qi to Liver/Gallbladder (Wood) and so on

through the system.  So, Qi is connection, or link possibly?  Those don't

quite spell it out, either, because there is an action involved, and this

connection is not exactly static.  These links, when functioning properly

are a continuum throughout the body, but not exactly energy.  Am I groking here?



Be well,











Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: On healing, [long]

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:34:24 GMT

--------

> We've grappled with trying to find a western word to define Qi, or ch'i,

> time again.  Correct me if I'm on the wrong path, Paul, but it isn't

exactly

> energy in the strict sense.  Jing is energy from eating.  Shen is energy

> from breathing.  But, as I read more about five element thinking, it looks

> to me that Qi is the connection between the organs.  As in, Spleen/Stomach

> (Earth) gives Qi to Lung/Large Intestine (Metal) which in turn gives Qi to

> Kidney/Bladder (Water) which gives Qi to Liver/Gallbladder (Wood) and so on

> through the system.  So, Qi is connection, or link possibly?  Those don't

> quite spell it out, either, because there is an action involved, and this

> connection is not exactly static.  These links, when functioning properly

> are a continuum throughout the body, but not exactly energy.  Am I groking

here?



Following a recommendation from Henriette, I will try to find the time to

prepare a faq of my understandings on these issues. Since I am utterly busy,

I can't promise it too soon, though.



Qi is influence. It is NOT bioenergy. Jing is the Yin Substance stored in the

Kidneys which serves as the root of Yin in the body. Gu Qi is the Qi from

food. Shen is spirit, Zong Qi is the Qi from breathing.



Five Phase thinking does not drive Chinese healing so much as the

physiological system itself. Each Organ system does influence the next, in a

specific set of relationships. That influence is the Qi involved, it is not

equivalent to packets of energy being passed in a physiological bucket

brigade, though.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: avena sativa

From: Terry King <taeking@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:45:34 +0000

--------

On 24 Jan 97 at 21:51, Eric Feingold wrote:



> At 22:14 24/01/97 +0200, you wrote:

> Colleen, somebody must be pulling somebody's leg. Avena Sativa is

> best known as "Oats". You can usually buy them at the local

> supermarket in flakes.  Just follow the directions on the package.

> They are not very expensive. Side effects are said to be rare. I

> personally eat them almost every day and I can vouch for my own

> continued interest in sex. They certainly can't hurt you. However,

> if you are serious I would recommend the herb Cannabis Sativa which

> is reported to really work along these lines.

>

Eric,



Don't dismiss this so quickly.  While I have no certain info on the

aphrodisiac properties of oats, I understand that oats contain the most

melatonin of all commonly consumed foods.  Melatonin is supposedly

useful for not only enhancing sleep but boosting mood and regulating

the pituitary gland which in turns regulates the rest of the

endocrine system including the sex hormones.

I can see where oats may be of some use.







Terry King

taeking@televar.com

Zone 4

North Central Eastern Washington





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: avena sativa

From: Colleen Evans <Colleen.Evans@MAIL.WDN.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:14:28 +0200

--------

Hi everyone.



I have a good friend that is taking a doctor prescribed drug for depression

& her anxiety attacks.  Unfortuantely, one of the side effects is that her

sex drive is slim to none.  This is starting to cause a problem in her

relationship with her mate.



I read somewhere that avena sativa is good for "jump starting your sex

drive".  Does anyone know anything about this?  Where do you buy it?  What

form does it come in?  How do you use it?  About how much does it cost?  Are

there any harmful side effects?



Sorry for all of the questions, but I wanted to find out as much as I could

before I told her about it.  I didn't want to get her hopes up unnecessarily.



Thanks in advance for your feedback!!!







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: avena sativa

From: Henriette Kress <HeK@HETTA.PP.FI>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:06:53 GMT

--------

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:14:28 +0200, Colleen Evans <Colleen.Evans@MAIL.WDN.COM>

wrote to HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR:



>I have a good friend that is taking a doctor prescribed drug for depression

>& her anxiety attacks.  Unfortuantely, one of the side effects is that her

>sex drive is slim to none.  This is starting to cause a problem in her

>relationship with her mate.



Ask the doctor for another prescription, or go the hypericum route.



>I read somewhere that avena sativa is good for "jump starting your sex

>drive".  Does anyone know anything about this?  Where do you buy it?  What

>form does it come in?  How do you use it?  About how much does it cost?  Are

>there any harmful side effects?



What you want is not common oats (as in muesli ingredient milled-and-pressed

ripe seed) but the milk-stage green seed, or an extract of this. Read up on it

on my neat-stuff page (thanks Michael) - I'll add some more gems to the Avena

sativa -part of the neat stuff as soon as I've dug 'em out (darn these too big

harddisks...).



Buy any milk-stage oats tincture, if you can find it. Or make your own tincture,

if you can wait until July.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: avena sativa

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:51:09 +0100

--------

At 22:14 24/01/97 +0200, you wrote:

>  Unfortuantely, one of the side effects is that her

>sex drive is slim to none.  This is starting to cause a problem in her

relationship with her mate. I read somewhere that avena sativa is good for

"jump starting your sex drive".  Does anyone know anything about this?

Where do you buy it?  What form does it come in?  How do you use it?  About

how much does it cost?  Are there any harmful side effects?

>



Colleen, somebody must be pulling somebody's leg. Avena Sativa is best

known as "Oats". You can usually buy them at the local supermarket in

flakes.  Just follow the directions on the package. They are not very

expensive. Side effects are said to be rare. I personally eat them almost

every day and I can vouch for my own continued interest in sex. They

certainly can't hurt you.

However, if you are serious I would recommend the herb Cannabis Sativa

which is reported to really work along these lines.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: avena sativa

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:35:34 -0900

--------

At 10:14 PM 1/24/97 +0200, Colleen Evans wrote:

>Hi everyone.

>

>I have a good friend that is taking a doctor prescribed drug for depression

>& her anxiety attacks.  Unfortuantely, one of the side effects is that her

>sex drive is slim to none.  This is starting to cause a problem in her

>relationship with her mate.

>

>I read somewhere that avena sativa is good for "jump starting your sex

>drive".  Does anyone know anything about this?  Where do you buy it?  What

>form does it come in?  How do you use it?  About how much does it cost?  Are

>there any harmful side effects?

>

>Sorry for all of the questions, but I wanted to find out as much as I could

>before I told her about it.  I didn't want to get her hopes up unnecessarily.

>

>Thanks in advance for your feedback!!!

>

>

Ah, Avena sativa.  You can buy it in any grocery store.  Just look for a

Quaker on a round box.  It is oats.  I prefer to eat what they call Scotch

oats, a little more substantive I think.  Just don't put sugar on it.

Spoils the whole effect.  Its character is warm, moist and sweet.  It

contains saponins, flavonoids, alkaloids, stroidal compounds and some

vitamins and minerals.  Oatstraw is antidepressant, restorative nerve tonic,

promotes sweating.  The grain is antidepressant, restorative nerve tonic and

nutritive,  Oatbran is antithrombotic, reduces blood cholesterol.

   As for sex drive, there are many things that can cause this.  If a body

is depleted of its strength by eating wrong foods, poor sleep habits and too

many stimulants, alcohol or illegal drugs (particularly pot), and not enough

exercise, you will find sex drive diminished.  Illness can also cause it as

can hormonal imbalance. Of course the last two can be attributed to the

former living habits.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: avena sativa

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:35:23 EST

--------

Colleen-



Prozac and its related medications do depress sexual response in a

significant number of people.  (As does depression, btw.)  Some of the

related drugs may have a milder response on your friend.  And dosage may

make a difference. She should discuss this with her doctor.



Avena Sativa is also called oatstraw.  It is the same oat plant that Eric

mentioned, but is usually harvested earlier, when the seeds are green,

known as the "milky stage".  Eating oats and oatmeal may have some effect

too, and is certainly delicious, but I don't know of any studies on the

mature forms regarding sexuality.



Oatstraw is rich in calcium and synergistic minerals and vitamins needed

for building bones.  Its steroidal saponins nourish the pancreas, liver

and adrenals and help stabilize blood sugar levels.  It reduces

cholesterol and improves circulatory functioning.  It is a nervine, that

nourishes strong nerves, helps people deal with stress (Vitamin b

complex), maintains restful sleep patterns and  reduces the frequency and

duration of headaches.  It eases bladder spasms, incontinence, uterine

pain and vaginal dryness.  It stimulates sexual response.



The information I have recommends making an infusion of nettles and

oatstraw for sexual response.  Take an ounce of herb:  2 parts oatstraw

and one part nettles and place in a quart jar or a pot with a lid.  Pour

in boiling water and leave overnight, or for at least four hours.  Strain

and drink at least 2 cups per day.  Oatstraw alone is good too.  (It's

delicious.)



I also tincture oatstraw and make oatstraw vinegars:  fill a jar with

oatstraw that you have just whirled in a blender, fill with 100 proof

alcohol or apple cider vinegar, cap (for vinegar, put saran wrap over the

top first) and let sit in a warm place for 6 weeks.  Then decant and

squeeze out the herb.  Use a tablespoon of vinegar or 30 drops of

tincture to substitute for the infusion.  All three can be used in

cooking.



Oatstraw infusions can be used in baths or sitz baths where it is

absorbed through the skin.  (And if your friend makes time for an

oatstraw bath, slowing down and taking care of herself can help her feel

sexy too.)



Since she will need lots of oatstraw, I suggest looking around for goood

prices.  It can be purchased in bulk rather reasonably from Frontier

Herbs Cooperative, may be in country feed stores (check for additives)

and may grow wild.  Eating oats is probably a good idea as well.  I don't

forsee a time when I won't drink or eat it- to stave off osteoporosis if

nothing else.  And it seems to help regulate my 12 year old son's

adolescent nervousness.  (I suspect it normalizes rather than

artificially increases sexual response, or I wouldn't use it here!)



She may want to try damiana (turnera aphrodisiaca) as well.  I have no

direct experience, but Santillo says that it is a sexual rejuvinator of

the sexual organs that has a tendency to overstimulate if used

excessively.  He recommends small frequent doses of the fluid extract or

powder.   Damiana is a traditional female aphrodisiac.



Ashwaganda may be of use too, although I am more familiar with its use in

males.  Look at Michael Tierra's old posts or see if Henriette has them

on her web page.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:14:28 +0200 Colleen Evans

<Colleen.Evans@MAIL.WDN.COM> writes:

>Hi everyone.

>

>I have a good friend that is taking a doctor prescribed drug for

>depression

>& her anxiety attacks.  Unfortuantely, one of the side effects is that

>her

>sex drive is slim to none.  This is starting to cause a problem in her

>relationship with her mate.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Altzheimer's Disease

From: Keith Ward <kward@LIONET.CO.UK>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:07:02 -0000

--------

Cures, retarding medication for those affected is very important, but anyone who is worried about the effects of AD on those they love or care for should also be aware of the effects on the carer.  It will take a lot out of you so be on the lookout for those effects too.



Best wishes to all AD carers



Keith Ward





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: oil of heliatrope

From: venture1 <venture1@TIR.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:11:24 -0500

--------

I heard a recipe that uses oil of heliatrope (I'm not sure I'm spelling that

right).  I have no idea what that is. Can someone help me out?





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Depression

From: Vickie Skillman <MONGO520@AOL.COM>

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:16:59 -0500

--------

I have read here and there on this list that St. John''s Wort is mentioned a

lot when the subject is depression.  Would someone please tell me how to best

utilize this herb as I suffer from depression.  Was on Zoloft for about 8

months but quit because I didn't like the idea of being on a drug every day

of my life.  I would be very interested in finding out more about what herbs

might be of benefit.

Thanks for listening.  Oh, and please I hope that everyone lays off of Paul,

he's okay, even if we all may not agree with his comments from time to time..

it's no big deal.  Like my doctor told me, just let go of all those bad

feelings you have over things that you can't control, don't let it affect

you.  Thanks all!  And remember....Think Happy Thoughts!





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: TCM and MS

From: Michelle Lewis <JLewis7639@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:47:17 -0500

--------

After reading so many posts about TCM on this list, I've decided to take

Introduction to TCM and Qigong classes this spring.  I'd like to learn more

about TCM than an overview.  Are there any books or other resources you can

recommend?  My interests are specifically in external qigong, herbs and

nutrition.



My husband has had MS for 10 years.  I haven't seen this illness discussed

since I've been on the list.  I'd like to know what TCM can do for MS.  He is

38, paralysed from the waist down, is not taking any medications.  He has

lots of problems with his skin (dry, flaking, oozing).



Michelle





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: TCM and MS

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:00:58 EST

--------

Michelle,



If I may recommend some books...  I Ching - Book of changes



The Foundations of Chinese Medicine by Giovanni Maciocia ISBN#

0-443-03980-1



Between Heaven & Earth, a Guide to Chinese Medicine by Harriet Beinfield

and EFrem Kokrngold ISBN# 0-345-37974-8



If you cannot find these books, you can call Red WIng at their 800 number

which I do not have.  If I remember correctly, I believe Red Wing

Publications is located in MA.



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: TCM and MS

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:35:39 GMT

--------

> The Foundations of Chinese Medicine by Giovanni Maciocia ISBN#

> 0-443-03980-1



This is one of the best texts available. It is rather expensive though.



I do NOT recommend 'Heaven and Earth,' however.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: TCM and MS

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:16:04 EST

--------

Paul,



>> The Foundations of Chinese Medicine by Giovanni Maciocia ISBN#

> 0-443-03980-1



This is one of the best texts available. It is rather expensive though.>>

  Yup!  Sure is, but absolutely worth it for anyone seriously interested

in TCM... the cost is $85.00.



Thanks for the information on Heaven and Earth!  These are just all notes

that I wrote down from class.



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: TCM and MS

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:04:13 GMT

--------

> My husband has had MS for 10 years.  I haven't seen this illness discussed

> since I've been on the list.  I'd like to know what TCM can do for MS.  He

is

> 38, paralysed from the waist down, is not taking any medications.  He has

> lots of problems with his skin (dry, flaking, oozing).



Either the case can be taken from a Chinese healing 'where is it now

(regardless of disease classification), in which case the question is 'What

is his own sense of body temperature?", or (maybe and/or) you can locate a

traditional MINIMUM dose homeopath who will treat him for the underlying

disease.



Sorry for the delay in responding. Give a fuller description of his

complaints, and we'll pursue it from the Chinese perspective. Homeopathy,

however, is EXTREMELY useful in MS [---ONLY IF THE HOMEOPATH IS AN EXPERT,

AND TRADITIONAL, though].



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: TCM and MS

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:04:18 GMT

--------

> This is one of the best texts available. It is rather expensive though.>>

>   Yup!  Sure is, but absolutely worth it for anyone seriously interested

> in TCM... the cost is $85.00.



The companion text on herbalism is now out. I don't have it, but I've looked

(salivated) at it, and it appears excellent. It is, however, something like

$120.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: TCM and MS

From: Michelle Lewis <JLewis7639@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:24:57 -0500

--------

Paul wrote:



<<Sorry for the delay in responding. Give a fuller description of his

complaints, and we'll pursue it from the Chinese perspective. Homeopathy,

however, is EXTREMELY useful in MS [---ONLY IF THE HOMEOPATH IS AN EXPERT,

AND TRADITIONAL, though].>>



I've checked out expert homeopaths and the nearest is 160 miles away and my

husband is not strong enough to travel that far yet, so here are his

symptoms.



I asked about body temperature and he said it varies.  My observation is he

is cold much more often than warm.  His skin on legs is like an elephant,

which peels and then oozes a clear liquid.  He has used numerous lotions and

cremes with no result, but had some clearing with a combination of triple

antibiotic ointment and triamcinolone acetonide cream .1%.  (Doctor

prescribed Aquaphor which makes the oozing much worse.)  He has the same

oozing on neck and scalp around ears (but not peeling, more like eruptions.

 Scalp is dry and flaky.



Other symptoms are extreme sensitivity in the neck and scalp; he describes it

as a burning sensation which he feels in some degree all over body.  He has

muscle spasms (doctor prescibed Baclophen, which causes drowsiness).  His

digestion is good, blood pressure normal, is incontinent, bowel movements

somewhat constipated but fairly regular.  Suffers insomnia and bouts of

depression frequently.  His legs are paralyzed, however is determined to walk

again and pulled himself to a standing position with a walker several days

ago.  Is there anything else you need to know?



Michelle Lewis





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: TCM and MS

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:31:26 GMT

--------

> I asked about body temperature and he said it varies.  My observation is he

> is cold much more often than warm.  His skin on legs is like an elephant,

> which peels and then oozes a clear liquid.



So there is clearly Dampness present. Variable body temperature signals, in

most cases of chronic illness, Qi Deficiency.



>He has used numerous lotions and

> cremes with no result, but had some clearing with a combination of triple

> antibiotic ointment and triamcinolone acetonide cream .1%.  (Doctor

> prescribed Aquaphor which makes the oozing much worse.)  He has the same

> oozing on neck and scalp around ears (but not peeling, more like eruptions.

>  Scalp is dry and flaky.



So there is Blood Deficiency.



> Other symptoms are extreme sensitivity in the neck and scalp; he describes

it

> as a burning sensation which he feels in some degree all over body.



So there seems to be an Excess condition (dislikes anything added to an

area=Excess, something in a quantity that is too much already). Burning

sensation is usually due to Heat.



>He has

> muscle spasms (doctor prescibed Baclophen, which causes drowsiness).



Qi Stagnation.



>His

> digestion is good, blood pressure normal, is incontinent, bowel movements

> somewhat constipated but fairly regular.



Deficient Qi incontinence, possibly; constipation due to Qi Stagnation.



>Suffers insomnia and bouts of

> depression frequently.



Heart Blood Deficiency and Qi Stagnation.



>His legs are paralyzed, however is determined to walk

> again and pulled himself to a standing position with a walker several days

> ago.  Is there anything else you need to know?



Yes. His diet is what? His past lifestyle has been? He drinks coffee or other

stimulants? He had or has other health problems? Quote this post in full when

you reply, so I don't forget.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: Terry King <taeking@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:32:40 +0000

--------

On 25 Jan 97 at 15:13, Eric Feingold wrote:

>There is

> little to argue with the fact that (all things being equal; we are not

> talking about the brain-dead here) its assimilation into the body whether

> by oral ingestion, drinking as an infusion, or smoking will most

> undoubtedly heighten sensual awareness. And I use the word sensual in its

> most broadest sense.

>



Eric,



It does not of itself enhance sensual awareness.  What it does do is

allow one to temporarily set aside one's barriers to intimacy and

physically relax.  You can get the same effect from a couple of

stiff drinks of alcohol or a large bowl of oatmeal a hot shower and

a cup of camomile tea.



It is far more sensual, pleasurable and ecstatic to actually drop

one's barriers and be fully intimate with a partner who has done the

same, without having your physical sensations numbed by a drug.







Terry King

taeking@televar.com

Zone 4

North Central Eastern Washington





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: sex and sativa

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:13:31 +0100

--------

At 19:35 24/01/97 -0900, you wrote:



>If a body is depleted of its strength by eating wrong foods, poor sleep

habits and too many stimulants, alcohol or illegal drugs (particularly

pot), and not enough exercise, you will find sex drive diminished.

>* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net



Hi Anita,

        I read all of your posts avidly because I find you one of the best

informed people around about herbs. You know far more about herbs than I

will ever know  and I have tons of respect for you as do, I am sure, all

the other list members. I wish to say however that you are incorrect about

the effects of cannabis sativa. Somehow you have a blind spot in relation

to this useful herb; you seem to always call it a drug and disparage its

usefulness. I have the feeling that your knowledge of this herb is not from

experience but from second and third hand sources, of which I include

watching other people use it on an habitual basis and supposedly throw

their lives away in the process.  Reading about something, watching others

or listening to others can never replace first hand experience. This is how

we *know* things. So I beg to differ with you on this point, solely based

on my own very personal first hand experience with this herb. There is

little to argue with the fact that (all things being equal; we are not

talking about the brain-dead here) its assimilation into the body whether

by oral ingestion, drinking as an infusion, or smoking will most

undoubtedly heighten sensual awareness. And I use the word sensual in its

most broadest sense. Remember, this is, (for the moment at least), the only

point I am arguing here. Whether it turns a percentage of the people who

use it into dope-crazed father-rapers or psychedelic light watching

vegetables is not germane to this particular issue of sex-drive.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:06:41 -0900

--------

>It does not of itself enhance sensual awareness.  What it does do is

>allow one to temporarily set aside one's barriers to intimacy and

>physically relax.  You can get the same effect from a couple of

>stiff drinks of alcohol or a large bowl of oatmeal a hot shower and

>a cup of camomile tea.

>

>It is far more sensual, pleasurable and ecstatic to actually drop

>one's barriers and be fully intimate with a partner who has done the

>same, without having your physical sensations numbed by a drug.

>

>

>

>Terry King

>taeking@televar.com

>Zone 4

>North Central Eastern Washington

>

>

Amen and Amen!!!  It's about time someone said it right.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: James King <gnostic@TELEVAR.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:03:55 -0500

--------

Further applause, and ;-/ appreciation :)



In <1.5.4.32.19970125190641.0067aad4@alaska.ktn.net>, on 01/25/97 at 10:06

AM,

   Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET> said:



>>It does not of itself enhance sensual awareness.  What it does do is

>>allow one to temporarily set aside one's barriers to intimacy and

>>physically relax.  You can get the same effect from a couple of

>>stiff drinks of alcohol or a large bowl of oatmeal a hot shower and

>>a cup of camomile tea.

>>

>>It is far more sensual, pleasurable and ecstatic to actually drop

>>one's barriers and be fully intimate with a partner who has done the

>>same, without having your physical sensations numbed by a drug.

>>

>>

>>

>>Terry King

>>taeking@televar.com

>>Zone 4

>>North Central Eastern Washington

>>

>>

>Amen and Amen!!!  It's about time someone said it right.



James





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:35:54 -0800

--------

Hello:



In my experience a tea of Damiana (Turnera Difusa) is exelent like a Brain

tonic (against depresion) and the best accting like a sex stimulant without

a colateral efects. Damiana (Turnera Difusa) is an Herb that grows easy in

California. You can get easily.



Bibliography: The Herb Society's Complete Medicinal Herbal.- 1995.



Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:26:20 +0100

--------

Terry,

        With all due respect are you speaking from personal experience? When you

say "breaking down one's barriers", "numbed by a drug" you are using the

language that describes one's reactions to *alcohol*. Many people who have

never tried cannabis think that they must be the same and so equate the two

reactions, and they couldn't be more wrong. Please remember that I am in no

way recommending its use for physical intimacy to people too hung up to

"drop...barriers." In such a configuration this herb would have the

*opposite* effect. Again, I am simply stating a fact.  Please, if you have

had experience with this herb say so. Do not quote from second hand sources.

        I would like to reply here as well to Anita's support of your letter.

James' as well. You both seem to be giving *knee jerk* responses without

evidence of any kind to what you thought I was saying. If cannabis sativa

enhanced both sensory and sensual awareness why should we deny it? Does

this mean we condone its indiscriminate use? I, for one, do not use either

cannabis, alcohol nor coffee for that matter. I guess I am too

egotistically hung up on my own personal health. I am merely trying to

describe the effects of this herb. Why does a simple herbal description of

the effects of this plant raise such reactions like the waving of a red

cape in front of a bull? I am sincerely mystified by these reactions.

Please, would you be able to explain your antagonism, not to the plant

itself but to reading a description of its documented effects?



At 10:32 25/01/97 +0000, you wrote:

>On 25 Jan 97 at 15:13, Eric Feingold wrote:

>>There is

>> little to argue with the fact that (all things being equal; we are not

>> talking about the brain-dead here) its assimilation into the body whether

>> by oral ingestion, drinking as an infusion, or smoking will most

>> undoubtedly heighten sensual awareness. And I use the word sensual in its

>> most broadest sense.

>>

>

>Eric,

>

>It does not of itself enhance sensual awareness.  What it does do is

>allow one to temporarily set aside one's barriers to intimacy and

>physically relax.  You can get the same effect from a couple of

>stiff drinks of alcohol or a large bowl of oatmeal a hot shower and

>a cup of camomile tea.

>

>It is far more sensual, pleasurable and ecstatic to actually drop

>one's barriers and be fully intimate with a partner who has done the

>same, without having your physical sensations numbed by a drug.

>

>

>

>Terry King

>taeking@televar.com

>Zone 4

>North Central Eastern Washington

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:35:51 GMT

--------

> Thanks for your kind deference.  However, I must continue to disagree on

> several  points.  1. Pot (Cannibis) IS a drug, a hallucenogenic one at

that.



One of the Chinese names for pot is Huo ma, or "Fire Hemp." It is profoundly

Heating, and commonly scorches the Kidneys, Liver, Heart, Stomach, and Lungs.

Not exactly what could be considered a healing plant in most uses.



In very low doses, it does seem to help with joint pain, as do many Heating

herbs.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:31:35 -0900

--------

At 03:13 PM 1/25/97 +0100, Eric Feingold wrote:

>At 19:35 24/01/97 -0900, you wrote:

>

>>If a body is depleted of its strength by eating wrong foods, poor sleep

>habits and too many stimulants, alcohol or illegal drugs (particularly

>pot), and not enough exercise, you will find sex drive diminished.

>>* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net

>

>Hi Anita,

>        I read all of your posts avidly because I find you one of the best

>informed people around about herbs. You know far more about herbs than I

>will ever know  and I have tons of respect for you as do, I am sure, all

>the other list members. I wish to say however that you are incorrect about

>the effects of cannabis sativa. Somehow you have a blind spot in relation

>to this useful herb; you seem to always call it a drug and disparage its

>usefulness. I have the feeling that your knowledge of this herb is not from

>experience but from second and third hand sources, of which I include

>watching other people use it on an habitual basis and supposedly throw

>their lives away in the process.  Reading about something, watching others

>or listening to others can never replace first hand experience. This is how

>we *know* things. So I beg to differ with you on this point, solely based

>on my own very personal first hand experience with this herb. There is

>little to argue with the fact that (all things being equal; we are not

>talking about the brain-dead here) its assimilation into the body whether

>by oral ingestion, drinking as an infusion, or smoking will most

>undoubtedly heighten sensual awareness. And I use the word sensual in its

>most broadest sense. Remember, this is, (for the moment at least), the only

>point I am arguing here. Whether it turns a percentage of the people who

>use it into dope-crazed father-rapers or psychedelic light watching

>vegetables is not germane to this particular issue of sex-drive.

>

>

Thanks for your kind deference.  However, I must continue to disagree on

several  points.  1. Pot (Cannibis) IS a drug, a hallucenogenic one at that.

2. In this respect, a person's awareness is NOT heightened but diverted.  3.

It makes you hungry, paranoid and you lose inhibitions.  That is how it gets

its reputation for "sensual awareness".  How do I know this?  I was once a

fool too.  Back in the 60's it was the ultimate rebellion and as a teenager,

it's easy to get sucked into it.  My knowledge is not entirely 3rd hand.

I'm just glad I quit the stuff before I got as bad as some I've seen who

still abuse it.  Perhaps, I am overreacting to this but I have my reasons.

I'll continue to be predjudiced against pseudo-enlightenment and

pseudo-sensual enhancement by any drug induced means whether it is alcohol,

pot, or other supposedly aphrodisiac herbs.  Fix the body and it will

respond appropriately at the right time.  There's no need for this junk.

Sorry, but I feel strongly on this.  I guess I'm an anti-pot fanatic,

hopelessly.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: David Campano <davecam@PRGONE.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 03:50:21 -0500

--------

At 08:31 PM 1/25/97 -0900, you wrote:



>Thanks for your kind deference.  However, I must continue to disagree on

>several  points.  1. Pot (Cannibis) IS a drug, a hallucenogenic one at that.

>2. In this respect, a person's awareness is NOT heightened but diverted.  3.

>It makes you hungry, paranoid and you lose inhibitions.  That is how it gets

>its reputation for "sensual awareness".  How do I know this?  I was once a

>fool too.  Back in the 60's it was the ultimate rebellion and as a teenager,

>it's easy to get sucked into it.  My knowledge is not entirely 3rd hand.

>I'm just glad I quit the stuff before I got as bad as some I've seen who

>still abuse it.  Perhaps, I am overreacting to this but I have my reasons.

>I'll continue to be predjudiced against pseudo-enlightenment and

>pseudo-sensual enhancement by any drug induced means whether it is alcohol,

>pot, or other supposedly aphrodisiac herbs.  Fix the body and it will

>respond appropriately at the right time.  There's no need for this junk.

>Sorry, but I feel strongly on this.  I guess I'm an anti-pot fanatic,

>hopelessly.



>* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *



I agree 200 percent! We were dumb and foolish and now are paying the

consequences of that whole lifestyle 25 years ago! My friends who are in

there 40's who continued on with the "Sex, drugs, Rock and Roll..are either

dead ,or they look 80...seriously!! A big joke when I look back but a lot of

people bought into that philosophy since the 60's!  I guess our parents were

right!! Heal the body and dump the drugs..herbs and vitamins can do

that..even to the most abused users.....Dave(former Rock Guitarist-25

years)Campano   davecam@prgone.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: sex and sativa

From: Fred Rodriguez <INSTAKILL@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 07:40:50 -0500

--------

Dear Anita,  I also disagree with  you on your views on sativa. I don't

consider it a         drug   at all. To me a drug  is something that is

processed in a  lab. I feel that sativa

used in moderation has certain benefits. It definetley heightens your senses

especially during sex. I was diagnosed with glaucoma ten years ago and put on

a medication{pilocarpine}that had many side effects. I complained to my

doctor and he  changed the prescription  to two medications{timoptic and

propine}. This combination didn't have side effects so I was satisfied. My

uncle got me some articles on the effects of sativa on some glaucoma

patients, after reading these I decided to try it. Without saying anything to

my doctor I started smoking on a regular basis. The next time I  saw him the

pressure in both eyes was normal. He took me off the medication and saw me

once a week for the next two monthes and the pressure was always normal. I

finally confessed to my doctor and he was surprised . Now I just see him once

a year and everything is normal. I just wanted to point out that it does have

its uses. I just wanted to say that I'm new on the list my name is Fred and

it's been nice talking to everyone. TAKE CARE





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: shark cartilage/was A long winded introduction...

From: m kent <mkent@TEXOMA.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:55:41 -0600

--------

I use a bovine derived chondroitin sulfate.

Same thing as shark cartilage.

It's not herbal, but neither is shark cartilage.

MK



>> Wouldn't shark cartilage be appropriate now to shrink  the tumors?  Has

>> anyone seen a study on fibroids.  I've got  a few others but not on this

>one

>> in particular.

>

>The shark cartilage industry is raping the oceans. That is the fact. In many

>areas, sharks are being overhunted to a point where our apparent desire for

>this entrepreneurially sold nonsense will be responsible for destroying whole

>ecosystems.

>

>There are other, renewable options, and it is our duty to rely on THEM.

>

>Paul

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: on healing

From: Mike & Linda Shipley <n5wuh@FULLNET.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:44:28 -0800

--------

Bitterness can be from the heart, but from Chinese medicine view I would

say the liver has something to do with it.  A cup of chocolate might

help the "grouchies", however.

I am wondering what Chinese medicine would recommend for bitterness

stemming (for lack of a better word) from the liver??

Lindashipley





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: on healing

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:27:12 EST

--------

Paul,



I am not sure how to put this into words... if you could try to guess

what I'm asking, I'd be very appreciative!.... A couple of people have

been discussing depression, and I'm reading my old notes.... I don't

remember everything and it just comes to me in bits and pieces... there

are 5 Element interrelationships,,, Sheng Cycle, Ko Cycle, Destructive

cycle, Anti-Ko cycle, and cosmological sequence



Would depression that is being discussed by a couple of people be the

destructive cycle?  An excess of wood energy will over-control earth,

causing earth to become deficient?  From my chart notes, (I could be

wrong but please correct me)... Wood relates to liver, gall bladder,

Spring, anger, depression, sour (acidic)?  I cannot remember at all how

this works, does one with such a diagnosis need their earth, metal, and

water balanced?  It's been so long since I had that class!



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MS

From: Denice Gherardini <DDenice@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:52:24 -0500

--------

heres my half-sisters true story on MS:



My half-sister has MS, and during the birth of her 4th child (was warned

after first) became wheel chair bound with parilasis and blind, due to the

disease. That was four years ago. Her condition had not improved and at times

gotten worse. We finally convinced her mama to give her pycnogenol about 3

months ago. She had her vision in 6 days and is able to walk to the bath

room, she is improving everyday.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MS

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:10:00 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-25 12:54:36 EST, you write:



<< She had her vision in 6 days >>



Antioxidants (such as pycnogenol and vitamin C) are known to help with

vision.  I think they help increase circulation in the eyes by their effects

on the capillaries in the eyes.  Anybody have any more specific information?



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Ancient herbal remedies and biotechnology

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:52:28 -0500

--------

If anyone is interested, the January 6, 1997 issue of "The Scientist"

contains an article titled "Biotechnology Turns to Ancient Remedies in Quest

for Sources of New Therapies" Very interesting!



"The Scientist" can be reached at http://165.123.33.33  (URL WEB edition -

text and graphics) or Gopher://ds.internic.net/11/pub/the-scientist  (URL

ASCII edition - text only)



Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Alzheimer's resources

From: Nancy Hodinka <NHodinka@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:03:19 -0500

--------

For those who are interested, here are some additional information sources on

current research for Alzheimer's disease (if any have already been posted, my

apologies!):



The Alzheimer's Association:   http://www/alz.org/



In the UK, The Alzheimer's Disease Society

  http://www.vois.org.uk/alzheimers/



The Alzheimer's Research Forum   http://www.alzforum.org/



The Alzheimer Web Home Page   http://werple.mira.net.au/~dhs/ad.htm



The Massachusetts General Hospital Neurology Web Page

       http:// dem0nmac.mgh.harvard.edu/neurowebforum.html



The Alliance for Aging Research:   2021 K St. NW, Suite 305, Washington DC

20006

                                                   Phone # (202) 293-2856



My thoughts are with all of you with aging parents (like my own, who are both

in their 80's). Best wishes,

Nancy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: aromatherapy

From: "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:20:59 -0800

--------

Hi,

        I wanted to know a little about aromatherapy.  I love candles and

scented baths and would like to use certain scents (good quality) in this

way to  help bring about serenity, peace and laughter in my home.  I have an

almost chemical free house and good sense of smell.

        What herbs/scents do you recommend?  Are there any "bogus" companies

to stay away from?



Thanks.



God's Love,

Krista





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: aromatherapy

From: Carlos Becerra Quiroz <esenio@TELNOR.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:41:30 -0800

--------

At 12:20 PM 1/25/97 -0800, you wrote:

>Hi,

>        I wanted to know a little about aromatherapy.  I love candles and

>scented baths and would like to use certain scents (good quality) in this

>way to  help bring about serenity, peace and laughter in my home.  I have an

>almost chemical free house and good sense of smell.

>        What herbs/scents do you recommend?  Are there any "bogus" companies

>to stay away from?

>

>Thanks.

>

>God's Love,

>Krista

>

>Hello:



Aromatherapy is a complex alternative Medical Healing. I think, in my

experience in this field, the best way is with natural aromaticed herbal

oils. I don't belive the use of cndles, aromaticed candles works, not at

least like a healing system.

Sandalo Oil is a good one for general proteccion against viral afections.



Carlos Becerra





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: aromatherapy

From: "Saundra T. Gaines" <saundrag@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:09:39 EST

--------

On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:20:59 -0800 "K." <klica@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:

>Hi,

>        I wanted to know a little about aromatherapy.



 Hi Krista,



If you are interested in learning aromatherapy, a good place to start is

with Valerie Ann Worwood's book, _The Complete Book of Essential Oils &

Aromatherapy_, published by New World Library in San Rafael, California,

1991  ISBN# 0-931432-82-0. In it she explains which oils to avoid and how

to identify quality, as well as giving a list of manufacturers that she

considers reputable.



If you want a quick start in using oils to scent the home or as cosmetics

and toiletries, you might want to get Colleen K. Dodt's book. I think the

title is _The Essential Oil Book_, but I do not have it with me now so I

can't give you any more information on it. She also lists reputable

suppliers.



Don't buy from any supplier whose oils are "oily". Pure essential oils

will evaporate without leaving an oily spot. Also, if all the different

oils are priced the same, you know you are not dealing with quality.

Different oils require varying amounts of raw materials and time, so the

prices vary widely. Oils such as rose, neroli, jasmine, carnation, are

unbelievably expensive. If you see some  reasonably priced, be on guard.

On the other hand, some very beneficial oils, such as lavender and lemon,

are quite inexpensive, considering how far one little bottle will go.



Two catalogs you might want to get are those from Joint Venture, P.O. Box

824, Rogers, AR 72757, aromaya@aol.com and Mountain Rose Herbs, P.O. Box

2000, Redway, CA 95560, (800)879-3337 Warning, just so yo won't be

shocked like I was: there is a "mother godess" type paganism evident in

some of the products from Mountain Rose, but I choose to ignore it

because I do like their other items.



There is an aromatherapy mailing list that I just learned about,

<list@idma.com>.



Usual commercial disclaimers apply.



Hope this helps,

Saundra

saundrag@juno.com

<><





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: aromatherapy

From: LorinGuild Apothecary <woodwitch@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:57:52 EST

--------

> Warning, just so yo won't be shocked like I was: there is a "mother

godess" type >paganism evident in some of the products from Mountain

Rose, but I choose to >ignore it because I do like their other items.



I don't think you ignored it or you wouldn't have brought it up.  Think

of the "mother goddess" statement  a bit more.  IMO...I think you were

deeply touched by the sentiment and are afraid to admit it to yourself.

Try looking at it objectively....you think of "Mother Nature" of "Mother

Earth"......why would a "Mother Goddess" be so frightening.

Blessed Be....



I wish you well...

Hawk`Scry

woodwitch of LorinGuild Apothecary

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3654

-To light a candle is to cast a shadow-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: cannabis sative

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:09:51 +0100

--------

I'm having this slight identity crisis, first Paul told me I was living in

black and white and then you describe me as colourful. Actually, colour me

surprised, to meet someone who has never experimented with cannabis. Don't

worry, you're not missing very much.



At 09:51 25/01/97 -0800, you wrote:

>Eric,

>I know that you are not addressing me but I have been reading your posts

>for awhile. You seem quite colorful.   Anyway, cannabis sative is

>illegal here.  I don't know about where you live. If I got my hands on

>some I might try drinking it as a tea.  I don't know.  However, I hate

>to jeopardize my freedom for a little excitement.

>Linda

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: cannabis sative

From: "M. Pacord" <Mpacord@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:13:18 -0500

--------

One should not assume, however, that the legality of any given plant or plant

product has anything to do with it's usefulness.  The cultivation of the

opium poppy and Cannabis indica (or sativa) are just two cases in point.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: cannabis sative

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:43:39 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-25 17:28:36 EST, you write:



<< Actually, colour me

 surprised, to meet someone who has never experimented with cannabis. >>



Add another to your list!  I never have even attempted to consume it it any

form.  The smell of its residue to enough to convince me I don't want the

stuff in my body.  I was in college during the late 60's so I've had plenty

of opportunities to use the stuff but was never interested.  On the other

hand, I have never wanted or attempted to smoke a cigerette because of the

odor of the smoke and the butts!



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: (fwd) Re: Harvesting St. Johns Wort

From: Henriette Kress <HeK@HETTA.PP.FI>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:35:19 GMT

--------

I just posted this to alt.folklore.herbs:



On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:16:54 -0800, Sharon & Bengt <allorenone@paonline.com>

wrote in alt.folklore.herbs:



>I have some St. Johns Wort growing in my garden.  Spring is a long way

>off but I am looking for information on how to harvest it and then what

>to do with it afterward to make it useable.



Provided you have a medicinal species of Hypericum (the yellow flower will stain

your fingers red when you crush it):



The experts say that dried herb don't cut it. I tend to believe them (hi MM,

how's life?).



So: take a big basket and lots of patience out with you on the meadow to gather

St.John's wort. Now you have to make a choice between quality and time spent on

the meadow:



- either pick only the yellow part of the flower, and mainly plants which have

both buds and flowers (no seeding flowers yet) ... this will take -ages- but

you'll have excellent quality oil or tincture when you're done.



- or pick the top 5 cm of the flowering plant - you'll need scissors or a knife

for this, they do tend to come up root and all if you simply try to 'pick' it;

you'll get good quality oil or tincture when you're done. (this is what I

usually do)



- or pick all but the lowest 10 cm of the flowering plant - you'll get quality

oil or tincture when you're done.



If some flowers have gone to seed, that's alright, no need to discard that part.

If some flowers are but buds - that's really good.



It's not feasible to pick only buds (even if this would theoretically yield the

best-quality oil or tincture), as 

 a) you won't even see the plants in the high grass of the meadow

 b) it'll take -ages- to pick this meagre take (it takes ages to do the flowers

    only, and buds are -lots- smaller)

 c) the flowers are prettier, and it makes me happy to go in a kind of zen-like

    state just picking yellow Hypericum -flowers



Next step: pour your take onto a large sheet of newspaper, and let it be in

shade for an hour or so to give the small black beetles a chance to leave.

There's -lots- of them, at least in my Hypericums.



Then: either crush the lot and pour oil over it, or crush the lot and pour

alcohol over it, or crush the lot and percolate it into tincture(how-to on

Michael Moore's webpage).



For the oil, or the regular tincture, you need a wide jar with a tight-fitting

lock, and leave it in your window for 21 days or so (oil) or 7 days or so

(tincture). For the tincture percolation you'll need a bit more gear, but it'll

be done in a jiffy.



Next step: filter the stuff and pour it into bottles with tight-fitting lids.

The oil has to be decanted off the bottom layer after about 4 days after it's

filtered.



Have fun.

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: other lists...

From: Duncan MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod <ejanison@TWD.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:46:55 -0500

--------

Hello,



I would appreciate it if some of you could tell me where I might find some

"new-age" lists.  I am looking for lists and web sites relating to



HERBOLOGY

NATURAL HEALING (LIKE THIS ONE)

PHILOSOPHY

RELIGION

METAPHYSICS



...well, you get the idea...



-----------------------------------------------------------------

|          ED JANISON          |         EJANISON@TWD.NET       |

-----------------------------------------------------------------

| I was born 400 years ago in the highlands of Scotland.  I am  |

| IMMORTAL, and I am not alone.  For centuries, we have waited  |

| for the time of the GATHERING, when the stroke of a sword and |

| the fall of a head will release the power of the QUICKENING.  |

| In the end, there can be only one.                            |

-----------------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Kava / Waka

From: ToaSt <toast@NETVISION.NET.IL>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:24:37 GMT

--------

About Kava Kava-

Sounds quite a nice legal thing to try, but too *damn complicated* to

prepare.

Is there an easier way to prepare it? (without chewing).

Will smoking work as good?

Any nice combos to try with it?

thanks







.Namaste'.

[toast@netvision.net.il]





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Qi, was Re(2): East is East and West is West

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:36:23 GMT

--------

> Chi is at least partially measurable with scientific instruments.



That is not Qi, but some sort of bioenergy. Qi itself is not measurable,

except by a perceiver. Qi is NOT electromagnetic. The closest translation for

Qi is 'influence.'



Your mother's face has Qi. A foggy day has Qi. Dogshit has Qi. Qi per se is

not equivalent to any form of energy.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Qi, was Re(2): East is East and West is West

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:16:05 EST

--------

>> Qi per se is

not equivalent to any form of energy.>>



I thought Qi meant vital energy or life force.  I thought it meant

"energy"... So what you are saying, if I understand it, does Qi mean,

"natural material or naturally occuring things?



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MS-Eyes

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:36:36 GMT

--------

> Apple Pectin :

> SPECIFICALLY for floaters!!! Chelates heavy metals that



>can circulate thru

> the eyes.



What gives you the idea that floaters are due to heavy metals?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MS-Eyes

From: Denice Gherardini <DDenice@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:59:21 -0500

--------

Vitamins C&E in High doses in conjunction with bioflavoniods

Prevents eye damage, relieves pressure from cataracts and has also been shown

to arrest and reverse cataract formation in some cases. Destroys free

radicals that cause all types of damage, most all damage in the body is

caused by these guys. Reduces and/or lowers intraocular pressure. These are

antivirals which are essential for helping immune system and enhancing and/or

promoting healing. Protects eyes from inflammation.  Helps to prevent

scarring and tissue damage. Improves oxygenation of eyes.



Pycnogenol

50x stronger than vitamin E and 20x stronger than vitamin C. (see above)



Bilberry Extract :

Has been shown to improve both normal and night vision. Some studies has also

shown it to halt loss of vision. Even better if taken in conjunction,  ginko

bilboba, bioflavonoids and zinc.



Apple Pectin :

SPECIFICALLY for floaters!!! Chelates heavy metals that can circulate thru

the eyes.



Vitamin A (also an antioxidant):

Because the light-absorbing retinal pigment is composed of vitamin A and

protein, which are continually being used up as images are formed, adequate

supplies of these nutrients are vital for proper eye function and protects

from free radicals. Aids in dissolution of spots, which may be caused by

deficiency. Necessary for pigment formation and proper balance of intraocular

fluid. Essential for proper functioning of the cones in the retina and

improves night blindness. Tears also contain vitamin A.



B-Complex Vitamins:

B vitamins also work best when taken togther. Needed for intracellular eye

metabolism, deficencies have been linked to cataracts. Helps to alleviate eye

fatigue. Improves oxygenation of eyes also. Prevents damage to nerves in

eyes.



Potassium:

Needed to maintain proper fluid balance in the eyes.



Selenium:

Powerful antioxidant also which kills free radicals which have been

implicated in damage to the retina and microcirculation of the eyes, along

with everything else they do.



Copper:

Also needed for proper healing and also retards the growth of cataracts.



Calcium with Magnesium:

Helps that microcirculation in the eyes, again!



Zinc:

Zinc is believed to help vision loss because it is a factor in the metabolic

functioning of several enzymes in the vascular coating of the eye

(chorioretinal complex). NEVER more than 100 mg per day though.



Denice





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: krystalpaw@EARTHLINK.NET

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:47:33 -0800

--------

I received a very, very bad burn on my hand when I was cooking and

immediately started with Colloidal Silver and a Colloidal Silver topical

gel by the same company.



Be careful what CS you purchase as most out there should be taken off the

market as it could cause a graying of the skin.



Beverley



At 03:38 AM 1/26/97 -0800, you wrote:

>At 04:55 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>Could anyone give me information for the best treatment for mild burns?

>>

>>Thanks,

>>

>>Joanna

>

>I use aloe vera gel with great success.  It takes the pain away and speeds

>healing when used externally.

>

>Kathy McQuade-Sedler

>

>Sedler's Mother Earth Herbs - 5272-A West Gold Ct., Beale AFB, CA  95903

>916-788-0138 ***** email SMEHerbs@mako.com

>FAX 916-788-0849 (not dedicated line)

>(All appropriate disclaimers apply.)

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: Richters Herbs <owner-richters-l@GREATBASIN.COM>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:04:04 -0800

--------

-----------------------  Richters HerbLetter  ------------------------

  Published by:     Richters, Canada's Herb Specialists

                    Goodwood, Ontario L0C 1A0, Canada

  Editor:           Conrad Richter <conrad@richters.com>

  Subscriptions to: majordomo@richters.com

                    - message should be (don't include square brackets;

                    but do include angle brackets):

                    SUBSCRIBE RICHTERS-L [<your email address>] [your name]

  Cancellations to: majordomo@richters.com

                    - message should be:

                    UNSUBSCRIBE RICHTERS-L [your email address]

  Archives:         www.richters.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 97/01/26

Sender: owner-richters-l@richters.com

Precedence: bulk

Reply-To: inquiry@richters.com



Contents

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.  Scientist Clones Ginseng

2.  Flax Tested in Breast Cancer Battle

3.  Garlic Fails Fat Test

4.  India Going Back to Traditional Ayurvedic Herbal Medicine

5.  Indian Herbal Tablets Help Alcoholics

6.  Herbal Treatments Replacing Modern Medicine in Zimbabwe

7.  Echinacea: Does It Cure What Ails Ya? Indians Thought So

8.  Traditional Herbal Healers Making Progress in Treating AIDS

9.  Herb Business News

------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.  Scientist Clones Ginseng

------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Nov 15, 1996, Seed Trade News -- Dr Zamir Punja of Vancouver's Simon

Fraser University has become the first scientist in the world to clone

North American ginseng in the laboratory, according to a report in the

AgWest Biotech Bulletin.



    Using a small leaf cutting, Punja has grown ginseg in 12 months rather

than the usual three years time frame.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.  Flax Tested in Breast Cancer Battle

------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Marilyn Dunlop



    TORONTO, Dec 28, 1996, Toronto Star -- Some breast cancer patients

are eating flaxseed muffins as part of a study by University of Toronto

researchers to determine whether flax can help combat cancer.



    Animal studies by nutrition scientist Lilian Thompson and her team

have indicated ingredients in flax can reduce the size of cancer tumours.



    The scientists are now collaborating with cancer specialist Dr Paul

Goss of The Toronto Hospital to investigate the usefulness of flax in

patients diagnosed with breast cancer.



    The women eat flaxseed muffins daily during the three to six weeks

they await surgery.



    According to a report in The Nutritional Post, flaxseed contains

ingredients similar to those found in tamoxifen, a drug used to prevent

breast cancer recurrence.  Like the drug, flaxseed may counter the hormone

estrogen, which helps many breast cancers grow.



    The report adds that flax has been partially credited with the easier

time Oriental women commonly have going through menopause.  It also says

that although Canada is the world's largest producer of flax, consumption

in North America is extremely low compared with consumption in Asia and

Europe.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.  Garlic Fails Fat Test

------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TORONTO, Jan 25, [Toronto] Globe and Mail -- Contrary to conventional

wisdom, garlic may not offer protection against heart disease.  A team of

British scientists led by Dr. H.A.W. Neil of Oxford University studied the

effect of garlic on 115 participants, aged 35 to 64, who had been unable to

reduce blood-borne fats through diet.  The group had high total cholesterol

levels, ranging from 232 to 329 micrograms per decilitre, and low-density

lipoprotein levels of 135 or higher.  One group of participants took an

odour-controlled dried garlic tablet three times a day for six months. The

other group took a placebo.  The scientists found no significant differences

between the two groups in the amount of blood-borne fats.  Earlier studies

suggest garlic protects against heart disease and heart attacks.



    [Other studies have shown that dried garlic does not have the same

chemical constituents as fresh garlic.  Some sulfur-containing compounds

believed to be important in health are not stable enough to survive drying.

This may explain the disagreement between the present results and the

earlier work. --CR]



------------------------------------------------------------------------

4.  India Going Back to Traditional Ayurvedic Herbal Medicine

------------------------------------------------------------------------

   THIRUVANANTHAPURAM, India, (Jan. 22) IPS - This south Indian state is

setting the pace for a new national policy co-opting Ayurveda, the ancient

system of healing, into a "barefoot doctor" scheme to  aid an ailing public

health delivery system.



   Officially acknowledging last year that India's public health  delivery

system had failed, former health minister A.R. Antulay  announced a series of

policy measures to formally harness the  services of India's 550,000-odd

registered practitioners of  Ayurveda and other traditional systems of medicine.



   The policy quickly took off in Kerala state where, undisturbed by  foreign

medicines, Ayurveda has been a continuing tradition of  vaidyans (master

physicians) training students and treating  patients in sylvan retreats called

"ashrams."



   At the Santhigiri Ashram, patients suffering from diseases  considered

chronic by allopathic doctors are routinely cured by  ayurvedic physicians,

under the supervision of their 70-year-old  master Guru Karunakaran.



   In the best tradition of Ayurveda, Guru Karunakaran looks for  underlying

spiritual causes for diseases such as rheumatism,  diabetes, epilepsy or heart

conditions, and may prescribe psychic  treatments which would seem irrational in

allopathy.



   Although the ashram is famous for its past life therapy (PLT),  which is

free, cures are mainly effected through a wide range of  herbal palliatives, oil

massages, fomentations and steam baths, at  a nominal cost.



   When Saraswati Amma, a 50-year-old diabetic, was told that her  festering

foot would have to be amputated by specialists at the  prestigious Trivandrum

Medical College Hospital she decided to go  to Santhigiri Ashram for a second

opinion.



   "In fact I was encouraged to try out the Ashram's ayurvedic  hospital by the

allopathic doctors and I am glad I did," Amma said.  Not only did she save her

foot, but the herbal cures helped control  her blood sugar levels permanently.



   For diabetes, the main drug prescribed by physicians at the Ashram  is

"Panchamridwekarasa," a pancreatic rejuvenant, the ingredients  of which are

carefully grown and tended at a herbal farm nearby.



   Although medicines produced at the Santhigiri Ashram include rare  and

valuable herbs, they are cheaply priced because they enjoy tax  exemptions, says

Anantha Rama Iyer who manages the ashram's  nation-wide distribution network.



   In Kerala itself, the state government as a special gesture, fully

reimburses its employees for medicines from Santhigiri Ashram sold  against

prescriptions, Iyer said.



   After the central government announced support for the formal entry  of

Ayurveda into primary health care especially in the  poverty-ridden rural areas,

Santhigiri Ashram set up a model  project in Kerala's hilly district of

Palakkad.



   Palakkad, typically, had allopathic doctors and fine diagnostic  facilities

concentrated in the urban areas while people in the  remote villages were left

to fend for themselves.



   With central government funding, the 15 million rupee basic health  project

emphasizing women and child care, consists of a 20-bed base  hospital servicing

six satellite clinics and 33 out-reach centers  covering 50,000 people in a 120

square kilometer swath.



   The strength of the project is the ayurvedic cures for childhood  elements

and for antenatal, natal and post natal care based on  ancient formulas which

are popular with well-to-do city folk as  well.



   According to chief physician Dr. K.N. Shyam Prasad, the herbal  preparations

include "Balasarvangam," a pediatric nerve medicine  which not only works as a

prophylactic against poliomyelitis, but  also cures it in the early stages.



   "It also works well against tetanus and convulsions and as a  respiratory

relaxant in asthma and whooping cough," adds Dr.  Prasad, a qualified specialist

in allopathic eurology.



   The child care plan or "balachikitsa" begins with tests on the  mothers milk

and correctives given to her orally to prevent colic  and induce immunity to

various diseases in the child, Project  Director R. Gopalakrishnan said.



   Oral rehydration therapy (ORT), promoted vigorously by the UNICEF  and World

Health Organization (WHO) as a life-saver in childhood  diarrhea, is in fact

described in ancient ayurvedic texts using  unrefined sugar and rock salt or

alternatively thin rice gruel,  Gopalakrishnan said.



   Care for the new mother includes a three-month period of herbal  oil

massages, compresses and tonics to restore correct body weight  and muscle tone.

There also are herbs to deal with complications  such as premature and septic

abortions.



   Although urban Kerala is better served with allopathic doctors and  health

facilities than anywhere else in India, there is a strong  movement in the state

favoring revival of ayurveda because of its  effectiveness and lack of side

effects.



   The Santhigiri Ashram also has a line of safe herbal medicines for

reproductive health and regulation of fertility which fits well  into the

national family planning program.



   "These herbs have long proved effective for regulating fertility  as well as

for achieving permanent sterility in women without the  complications of

hormone-based pills or surgery," Gopalakrishnan  said.



   Palakkad's forested and hilly terrain deters allopathic doctors  and

development activities, but are an advantage for the Santhigiri  Ashram project

because of the wealth of rare and vanishing herbs  which flourish there.



   Ayurvedic health farms already do brisk business and its  rejuvenating herbal

oil massages and saunas are popular with the  rich and tourists visiting Kerala.



   For the central government, Ayurveda appears a ready-made solution  to new

disparities created by market reforms, which are making  allopathic medicines

inaccessible to the vast majority of Indians.



   "We are rediscovering the merits of Ayurveda and its popularity  with the

people," Union Health Minister Salim Shervani told a  meeting of state health

ministers and secretaries this month and  pledged massive budgetary support to

revive the system in the  country's ninth five-year-old plan, starting this

year.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

5.  Indian Herbal Tablets Help Alcoholics

------------------------------------------------------------------------

    NEW DELHI, Jan. 23 (UPI S) -- Authorities have started distributing

herbal tablets to help alcoholics in India's northern state of Haryana

(HAAR-EE-AANA) quit drinking. The Asian Age newspaper reports (Thursday) the

state health department has distributed 25,000 tablets in the state, which

has officially declared prohibition.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

6.  Herbal Treatments Replacing Modern Medicine in Zimbabwe

------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Angus Gova



   HARARE, (Jan. 20) AIA/GIN - As the country's health delivery system  fails to

cope with national needs, more and more Zimbabweans are  turning to traditional

healers to seek relief for various ailments.



   More than that, there is increasing collaboration between  traditional and

modern health practitioners regarding the medicinal  use of various herbs and

plants.



   Zimbabwe's modern health system has come under immense pressure  over the

last decade, largely due to the shortage of financial  resources to service the

country's nine main referral hospitals,  which serve 80 percent of the

population and over 1,000 rural  health centers.



   Recent research in Zimbabwe has shown that 80 percent of the  country's 10.5

million population have faith in traditional  medicine. An increasing number of

people are seeking traditional  remedies for various ailments such as cancers,

sexually transmitted  diseases, ulcers, arthritis, rheumatism, insect-borne

diseases,  malaria, infertility as well as for AIDS and AIDS-related diseases

such as TB.



   The 50,000-member Zimbabwe National Traditional Healers Association

(Zinatha) recently said that it had identified a number of  medicinal plants

which are being used in successful treatment of  some of the symptoms related to

AIDS. It stressed, however, that  it has not found a cure for AIDS.



   The association, in conjunction with the University of Zimbabwe's  faculty of

medicine, is in the process of isolating the  pharmacologically active compounds

of some plants which, they  claim, can be used to synthesis drugs for the

treatment of AIDS.



   Zinatha has applied for a patent for one of the drugs. If accepted  by

Zimbabwe's Drug Control Council, the association intends to  carry out trials on

AIDS patients. "I am happy to report that 10  percent of the plant medicines

tested showed some protection  against the effects of the HIV/AIDS virus on

human blood cells,"  says association president, Professor Gordon Chavunduka.



   He said during the last five years, more than 200 traditional  medicines used

in Zimbabwe have undergone intensive testing at the  Zimbabwe Drug Control

Laboratory, and to date, 95 percent have  proven useful in the treatment of

various diseases.



   The association now intends to establish hospitals and traditional  medicine

processing factories in each of the country's eight  provinces. It is intended

that the factories will supply the  hospitals with safe and adequate medicines,

thereby getting rid of  the practice by traditional healers of collecting

medical herbs  from the bush, most of which were being administered without

proper  dosages.



   Parallel but unrelated efforts are also being made by the  Bulawayo-based

Zimbabwe Traditional and Medical Clinic, which  recently embarked on a US$30,000

project to establish a herbal  pharmacy.



   The clinic's founder coordinator, Barbara Sibanda --- herself a  university

trained medical doctor -- says the setting up of the  clinic has been prompted

largely by the increasing number of people  seeking traditional methods of

treatment. Sibanda began her clinic  on an experimental basis 15 years ago

combining traditional,  medical and faith healing.



   Clinic records show that the number of patients has risen from 500  in 1981

to over 25,000 in 1995, with some patients coming from  neighboring countries

such as Zambia.



   "The achievements of the clinic, lie not only in the hundreds of  patients

seeking alternative treatment methods every month, but  also in the success rate

that has been achieved so far," says  Theo-Ewart Harvey, a medical doctor who

works closely with  traditional doctors.



   Against the background of the growing number of Zimbabweans turning  to

herbal medicine, yet another independent group of herbalists and  conservation

experts have set up an indigenous herbal garden to  promote natural remedies and

grow local medicinal plants.



   A nursery with hundreds of indigenous trees and grass species with  medicinal

properties is flourishing on the outskirts of Bulawayo,  Zimbabwe's second

largest town. The nursery is sponsored by the  medicinal environmental experts

and teachers.



   Professor Mazura Gundidza of the University of Zimbabwe's  Department of

Pharmacy in the Faculty of Medicine, has been  involved in research activities

in traditional medicine in Zimbabwe  for over 10 years.



   In the mid-80s, there was growing concern that although the  majority of

Zimbabweans prefer to consult herbalists for treatment,  very little scientific

evaluation of the medicinal and aromatic  plants was being carried out.



   In addition, Zimbabwe was spending an enormous amount of foreign  currency

importing drugs and raw materials of plant origins for its  pharmaceutical

industries.



   This gave the department the impetus to embark on a broad medicinal  plants

screening program for both phytoconstituents and biological  activities. A

number of Zimbabwean plants were screened for  alkaloids, anthranoids,

polyphenols, tannins, and cardenolides.



   Having identified these chemical substances, the next stage was to  screen

the antimicrobial, pharmacological, insecticidal, and  toxicological properties

of the purified extracts.



   "The results indicate that Zimbabwe has great potential in the  production of

new essential oils. In addition, these studies show  that Zimbabwe can produce

lavender lemon grass, geranium, jasmine,  eucalyptus and tea tree oils for both

the pharmaceutical and  industrial markets, as well as for the export market,"

Gundidza  says.



   He said without infusing traditional medicine with modern medicine,  it will

be difficult to achieve health for all by the year 2000.

   (Angus Gova is a correspondent for Africa Information Afrique, a  news and

feature service based in Harare, Zimbabwe.)



------------------------------------------------------------------------

7.  Echinacea: Does It Cure What Ails Ya? Indians Thought So

------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Ellen Joan Pollock and Michael Moss



  NEW YORK, Jan. 19, Wall Street Journal -- Margie Lubet thought she was

coming down with a cold. "I felt like I was fighting something, and everyone

around me was sick," the Mellon Bank manager recalls. Then, suddenly, she

felt better.



  Ms. Lubet thinks she knows why: She started taking Echinacea.



  A member of the daisy family, it is the herb of choice these days for many

people too busy to take time off work or away from the kids to do battle with a

virus.



  People who wouldn't pop a prescription pill without peppering their physician

with questions about contraindications and side effects swallow Echinacea by the

dropperful, putting faith in word-of-mouth.



  Why would seemingly rational cold and flu victims turn so readily to a

vile-tasting fluid in an ominous-looking brown bottle?



  Desperation, says Nicole Browning, an executive vice president at MTV

Networks: "You're so busy that you will do anything to sustain good health." Ms.

Browning, who says she isn't "a natural-herbal-type person," started using

Echinacea (pronounced ek-in-Asia) after moving to New York from Atlanta. "Maybe

it's all in my head, but I swear it's staved off some colds," she says.



  Those making the leap of faith are taking a leaf from Native Americans who

once used Echinacea to treat everything from colds to gonorrhea. The Indians

shared their secret with European settlers. And the herb has long had a place in

U.S. health-food stores, if only on the dusty shelves behind the rolled oats.



  Lately, however, Echinacea has gone mainstream. In the past three years, Rite

Aid Corp., Rexall Sundown Inc., and General Nutrition Cos. have introduced

Echinacea lines. Zand Herbal Formulas, a supplier of Echinacea products to

health-food stores, says it has seen a 25% increase in sales in the past two

years, with 1996 retail sales in excess of $10 million. Whole Foods, a trade

magazine, reported recently that Echinacea is the best-selling herbal product in

health-food stores. Annual sales approach $80 million.



  Meanwhile, researchers still are scratching their heads about what exactly is

in the stuff and what good it does, if any. Some think the root of Echinacea

angustifolia, one of nine varieties of the purple coneflower, is especially

potent because it is loaded with isobutylamides, which cause the tongue to

tingle. In Germany, where 300 Echinacea products are available (and paid for by

insurance), a double-blind clinical study in 1992 showed that Echinacea produced

a "statistically significant" improvement in flu symptoms, but only when 180

drops a day were ingested. Half that dosage proved a bust.



  The Food and Drug Administration, which says it has received no complaints

about Echinacea making anybody sick, is staying out of it. Richard Lee, a

professor of medicine at the State University of New York at Buffalo, cautions

that the FDA doesn't regulate the contents of herbal products. Dr. Lee, who is

interested in Chinese medicine, drinks chamomile tea when he gets a cold. He

argues that "a double rum hot toddy and a hot shower works probably as well as

anything else."



  But none of the mystery seems to bother users like Ms. Lubet. "Even if it's a

placebo, I don't care," she says. Echinacea isn't something most users consult

their doctors about.



  Jeannette Festa heard about the supposed immune-system booster from a

next-door neighbor in Baltimore. She was pleased with the results. Now, when she

sees her children getting sick, "I'll give them a little dose in the soup," she

says.



  Still, Echinacea isn't a family habit. Ms. Festa's husband, Arthur Fergenson

a lawyer, refuses to go near the stuff: "I've partaken of the tequila fad and

I've partaken of the single-malt-liquor fad, but I'm not going to partake of the

herbal-remedy fad." His wife wishes he would change his mind. Decongestants make

him kind of "bug-eyed," she says.



  Most users seem more concerned about Echinacea's flavor than about its status

with the FDA. To put it politely, Echinacea tastes terrible. Although it comes

in capsules and as tea, most old hands insist that the liquid is the way to go.



  "I don't think I know anything that tastes that bad," says Stephanie Asch, who

works at Random House. Grape juice, she says, is the only thing that hides it.

Betsy Causey, a New York school administrator, says it tastes like bark.



  Then there's the dosage question. Nature's Answer, a Hauppauge, N.Y., firm

recommends four to five drops, three or four times a day. Herb Pharm, of

Williams, Ore., recommends 30 to 40 drops, two to five times a day. Companies

process it differently, so one drop may not be equal to another. Ms. Causey

advises: "Fill your body with Echinacea at the first sign you feel sick."



  Ms. Lubet, of Pittsburgh, tells a reporter who tried Echinacea and came down

with a cold anyway that she didn't dose up soon enough. "We always have some

excuse," she says, laughing. "`Oh, you took it too late,' or, `You didn't get

enough rest.' If you don't get sick we say, `Oh, it's because of the

Echinacea.'"



  The recent surge of interest in Echinacea has taken even some pioneers like

Janet Zand by surprise. Dr. Zand, a doctor of Oriental medicine and naturopathy,

sold Echinacea in Venice, Calif., in 1978. When she launched McZand Herbal Inc.

in 1979, her partner Michael McGuffin whipped it up in his garage.



  That has all changed. "We went from stirring it with wooden spoons to

high-tech science," says Dr. Zand, whose products now are made in

stainless-steel vats.



  Mr. McGuffin attributes the surge to "that big bump called the baby boom that

has always looked for new ideas. . . . People are looking for more affordable

options and more natural options."



  Some U.S. physicians are taking notice of their patients' experiments. Jay

Gordon, a Santa Monica, Calif., pediatrician, learned about Echinacea 15 years

ago from parents giving it to their children for ear infections. Although he

says he was trained "very conventionally," he now prescribes the herb. "I use a

lot fewer antibiotics than my colleagues," says Dr. Gordon, who also consults

for a company that produces Echinacea.



  Philip Askenase, a professor of immunology at Yale Medical School, says cold

sufferers shouldn't fool themselves into believing that anything at the

health-food store can give their immune systems a boost. "At best, it's probably

not doing anything," he said.



  But he called back with second thoughts after reviewing an Echinacea pamphlet.

"It's kind of interesting that this stuff goes back to the cowboys and Indians,"

he says. He had also learned, he says, that his "children and their boyfriends

are currently taking this stuff."



  Still, he may not join them. For years he has been using mentholated

eucalyptus cough drops when he has a cold and has recommended them to his

patients. Who turned him on to that remedy? A family baby sitter.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

8.  Traditional Herbal Healers Making Progress in Treating AIDS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

   HARARE, Zimbabwe (PANA, 01/15/97) - The Zimbabwe national traditional

healers association (Zinatha) announced on Tuesday it has made considerable

progress towards finding a possible cure for the deadly disease, AIDS.



   Zinatha's president, Prof. Gordon Chavunduka, told journalists that his

association had developed a drug, PMZ, which had been registered

internationally and that his association was now waiting for the patent  rights.



   Chavunduka, a former University of Zimbabwe vice-chancellor, said  clinical

trials would be held as soon as the patent was received and  that if they were

successful, commercial production of the drug would  proceed.



   "We now have a drug which is likely to help cure AIDS but more work is  still

being done to boost its effectiveness since tests have shown that  the drug

dissolves quickly in the body," said Chavunduka.



   The hitherto incurable disease has caused untold suffering to many

Zimbabwean households with an estimated 300 people dying every week  while over

a million are said to be infected with HIV, which eventually  leads to

full-blown AIDS.



   Chavunduka said Zinatha had also found potential drugs for the  treatment of

herpes, ulcers and high blood pressure, and the  association was making

applications for patents for the drugs.



   After several claims of AIDS cures, the Zimbabwe health ministry  allowed the

country's traditional healers to experiment their herbs on  patients with proven

cases of HIV.



   Up to now, health authorities in Harare have maintained that not a  single

patient had reversed from being HIV-positive to negative, after  being treated

by the local traditional medicinemen.



   Meanwhile, Chavunduka said government had not yet responded to  Zinatha's

challenge to identify its members who advised their patients  to have sex with

their children as treatment for HIV infection.



   Zimbabwe's information, posts and telecommunications deputy minister  Oppah

Rushesha was quoted on at least two occasions as accusing Zinatha  members of

telling their patients infected with HIV to have sex with  minors as a cure.



   "She has not yet responded to our challenges and as far as we are  concerned,

there has never been any such case among our members," said  Chavunduka.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

9.  Herb Business News

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agridyne Technologies -- EPA Approves Neem-based Pesticide



   JAN 20, 1997, M2 Communications [Excerpt] -- Agridyne Technologies of

Columbia, Md. was granted [EPA] registration for dihydroazadirachtin (trade

name DAZA) a hydrogenated form of the naturally occurring azadirachtin

obtained from the seeds of the neem  tree, native to India and Burma. It will

be approved for use indoors  against numerous insects such as ants, aphids,

beetle, caterpillars,  crickets, sawflies, whiteflies, centipedes, nematodes

and sowbugs.  Outdoors it will be approved for use on bedding plants,

flowers, potted  plants, foliage plants, plants grown hydroponically,

ornamentals,  trees, shrubs, turfgrass, fiber crops, forage and fodder crops.



----

Twinlab: Adds Significant Additional Manufacturing and Office Space



    RONKONKOMA, N.Y., Jan. 20 /PRNewswire/ -- Twinlab Corporation, a leading

manufacturer of nutraceuticals and nutritional supplements, announced today that

it has signed an agreement to purchase an additional 110,000 square feet of

industrial and office space in Ronkonkoma, N.Y.  The purchase will significantly

add to the 147,000 square feet Twinlab currently occupies on Long Island.  The

purchase of the property is subject to customary conditions, including due

diligence.  With the acquisition of this new space, the company will be able to

increase significantly its manufacturing and operational capacity.  The company

anticipates creating in the future an estimated 100 new jobs as a result of this

planned expansion of its manufacturing and warehousing operations.



    The new property is located in close proximity to Twinlab's current

corporate headquarters.  According to Twinlab executives, the purchase should be

finalized shortly and they expect to occupy the facility by May.



    "We are looking forward to the planned expansion of our manufacturing and

warehousing capacity to enable us to meet increasing demand for Twinlab

products," says Ross Blechman, president of Twinlab Corporation.  "We are proud

of Twinlab's success and significant growth over the last few years and are

equally enthusiastic with the prospect of providing more jobs in the future to

our Long Island community," he adds.



    Twinlab Corporation, headquartered in Ronkonkoma, N.Y. markets over 800 fine

nutritional products including a complete line of vitamins, minerals and

nutraceuticals, antioxidants, fish and marine oils and sports nutrition

supplements under its TWINLAB Division, a full line of herbs and phytonutrients

under its Nature's Herb Division and over 100 herbal teas under its Alvita Tea

Division.



----

Bigelow Tea: Wins Lawsuit Initiated by Celestial Seasonings;  R.C. Bigelow,

    Inc. Vindicated on Packaging and Advertising Charges



    FAIRFIELD, Conn., Jan. 17 /PRNewswire/ -- Bigelow Tea was absolved of any

wrongdoing.  That was the message behind the decision read by a federal judge on

Monday, January 13 in a case brought against R.C. Bigelow Inc., the makers of

Bigelow Tea, by herbal tea maker Celestial Seasonings.  In the 100+ page

decision read from the bench by Judge Edward W. Nottingham, the Bigelow company

was fully vindicated, while Celestial was sharply criticized.  The failed

lawsuit which was filed by Celestial Seasonings in the United States District

Court for the District of Colorado in Denver, accused Bigelow of trade dress

infringement and false advertising, and sought up to $70 million in damages.



    During the 18-month litigation, Boulder-based Celestial Seasonings tried to

tie its lack-luster performance in the herbal tea market to packaging changes

and alleged false advertising by its competitor, Bigelow.



    In its defense, attorneys for R.C. Bigelow Inc. argued that Celestial's

management decisions, as well as other factors in the marketplace, contributed

to the company's alleged losses; and further, that Celestial's trade dress

infringement and false advertising claims against Bigelow were unfounded.



    From the bench of his Denver courtroom, Judge Nottingham declared, "...

Bigelow has not intentionally or unintentionally appropriated the dress

(packaging design) on which Celestial has expended money."  In regard to the

false advertising claims, the judge went on to say "... there is no violation of

the Lanham Act's false advertising prescription."



    In the same oral ruling the judge chastised Celestial Seasonings on several

counts, including a fraudulent letter written by Celestial's former General

Council.  Judge Nottingham stated, "There is evidence here of actions on the

part of Celestial about which Celestial ought to be ashamed," and went on to

conclude, "There is a good deal of evidence in this case that causes me to

wonder about the plaintiff's case and about the reasons why the plaintiff's case

has been brought and why it has been pursued."



    In commenting on the ruling, David C. Bigelow stated, "When my mother

founded the company more than 50 years ago, she built her reputation on quality,

honesty and integrity.  With my wife and daughters, and hundreds of dedicated

employees, we have continued to pursue this spirit of entrepreneurial

excellence.  While we are pleased with the ruling, which clears our name, it has

been an exhausting process.  We look forward to returning our time and energy to

our family-run tea business."



    For more than 50 years, R.C. Bigelow, Inc. has produced quality teas,

including America's best-selling specialty tea flavor, "Constant Comment"(R).

Based in Fairfied, Connecticut, the company takes pride in its family heritage

and its successful growth from a small one-product, entrepreneurial venture to

one of the nation's leading specialty tea makers.  Today, Bigelow Tea offers a

wide variety of teas  -- everything from flavored, traditional, decaffeinated

herb teas to flavored iced teas.



----

Celestial Seasonings: Reports Increased First Quarter Results



    BOULDER, Colo., Jan. 16 /PRNewswire/ -- Celestial Seasonings, Inc.

(Nasdaq-NNM: CTEA) today reported first quarter earnings per share increased 8.9

percent to $0.49 per share for the period ended December 31, 1996, compared with

$0.45 per share for the period ended December 31, 1995.



    Net sales increased 8.6 percent to $25.7 million in the quarter versus net

sales of $23.6 million for last year's first quarter.  The company said case

volume grew by 1.2 percent, although last year's results included its ready-

to-drink business which is now licensed.  Excluding volume which is now under

the license, tea volume increased by 3.9 percent.  Sales from the company's

nutraceuticals line increased to almost $0.7 million in the quarter.



    The company said gross profit improved by 11.5 percent to $16.6 million in

the first quarter, and its gross profit margin increased to 64.7 percent from

63.0 percent for the same quarter last year.  The licensing of lower margin

ready-to-drink products and volume increases in its more profitable channels of

distribution account for the margin improvement, the company said.



    "Our promotions and advertising during the quarter have been very positive

for our brand.  Sales of hot herb teas and specialty black hot teas in the

grocery and natural foods channels drove the increase in revenues this quarter,"

said Mo Siegel, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.  "Our international and

food service businesses also contributed to earnings during the first quarter."



    Celestial Seasonings, Inc. is the largest manufacturer and marketer of

specialty hot teas in the United States.  The company makes Sleepytime(R) --

America's favorite herb tea -- and over 40 other unique blends, including Lemon

Zinger(R), Strawberry Kiwi, Tension Tamer(R), Vanilla Maple, and delicious iced

teas specially formulated to brew in the refrigerator.  The bulk of the

company's hot tea sales occur during the first and second quarters of its fiscal

year.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

  * * * * *     New 1997 Edition Hot Off The Press!     * * * * *

  Richters Herb Catalogue: 103 pages, colour, over 770 herb plants,

  seeds, and dried herbs. Over 40 new herbs, including many rare Chinese

  medicinals like Dong Quai (Angelica sinensis) and Tan Shen (Salvia

  miltiorrhiza). Also Richters exclusive introduction: Orange Spice(TM)

  Thyme -- a wonderful new thyme unlike any other. Order catalogue by

  email at catalog@richters.com (include name and postal address in

  message). Or order on the Richters Web page, www.richters.com .

------------------------------------------------------------------------



RICHTERS HERBS                     | Info:                 info@richters.com

Goodwood, ON  L0C 1A0, Canada      | Catalog Requests:  catalog@richters.com

Tel +1-905-640-6677  Fax 640-6641  | Website:               www.richters.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Useful factual information on Cannabis

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:49:51 -0900

--------

Dear herb friends.  I thought it would be appropriate in light of recent

comments about the "beneficent and wonderful pot" that you get some factual

information.  While the herb has some perhaps useful medicinal qualities, it

also has some very disturbing and dangerous qualities as well.  It is not my

imagination that this herb can destroy lives.  There is a mental condition

recognized by both British and American mental health professionals called

CANNIBIS DEPENDENCE SYNDROME.  There is also volumes of information

available from organizations such as Youth Against Drugs (which my 5

children have supported) that clearly indicate it is not a safe drug to turn

loose on the population in general.  Physical side effects of abuse include,

sexual dysfunction, sterility in males, growth of breasts in males, scarring

of throat from repeated burning and others.  The following is a quote from

the Internet. It is documented if you care to follow up on this information.



>Diagnostic Criteria

>

>A. Cannabis abuse: A destructive pattern of cannabis use, leading to

significant social,

>occupational, or medical impairment. 

>

>B. Must have three (or more) of the following, occurring when the cannabis

use was at its worst: 

>

>   1.Cannabis tolerance: 

>     Either need for markedly increased amounts of cannabis to achieve

intoxication, or markedly

>     diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of cannabis. 

>

>   2.Cannabis withdrawal symptoms: 

>     Either (a) or (b). 

>

>     (a) Two (or more) of the following, developing within several hours to

a few days of reduction

>     in heavy or prolonged cannabis use: 

>          sweating or rapid pulse 

>          increased hand tremor 

>          insomnia 

>          nausea or vomiting 

>          physical agitation 

>          anxiety 

>          transient visual, tactile, or auditory hallucinations or illusions 

>          grand mal seizures 

>

>     (b) Cannabis is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms. 

>

>   3.Greater use of cannabis than intended: 

>     Cannabis was often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period

than was intended 

>

>   4.Unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control cannabis use: 

>     Persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control

cannabis use 

>

>   5.Great deal of time spent in using cannabis, or recovering from hangovers 

>

>   6.Cannabis caused reduction in social, occupational or recreational

activities: 

>     Important social, occupational, or recreational activities given up or

reduced because of

>     cannabis use. 

>

>   7.Continued using cannabis despite knowing it caused significant problems: 

>     Continued cannabis use is continued despite knowledge of having a

persistent or recurrent

>     physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been worsened

by cannabis 

>

>

>

>Associated Features

>

>     Learning Problem 

>     Psychotic 

>     Euphoric Mood 

>     Depressed Mood 

>     Somatic/Sexual Dysfunction 

>     Addiction 

>     Odd/Eccentric/Suspicious Personality 

>

>

>

>Differential Diagnosis

>

>Nonpathologic cannabis use for recreational or medical purposes; repeated

episodes of Cannabis

>Intoxication. 

>

>

>Internet Mental Health (www.mentalhealth.com) copyright  1995-1996 by

Phillip W. Long, M.D. 

>

Is this really something you want to prescribe to your patients when there

are much more benign herbs available?

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Useful factual information on Cannabis

From: "M. Pacord" <Mpacord@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:09:31 -0500

--------

You are right to recommend the use of herbs whenever possible, but the truth

is that Cannabis is enormously safer than virtually any of the substitutes we

have for it, including synthetic THC.  As an herbal agent, Cannabis has been

in use as a medication, albeit sometimes illegally, in a huge number of

cultures for at least the past five thousand years.  And there are no doubts

that problems are encountered with the abuse of  Cannabis by an extremely

small percentage of the total of at-least-one-time users.  What I object to

is that Cannabis is currently very useful, with many applications, but very

illegal.

     As a physician, I have patients for whom I believe that Cannabis would

be the best overall choice as a medication, but I am unable to even recommend

that one of them use this herbal agent without my risking the wrath of the

Federal Government.

     If you want to find out the safety a drug has, one measure is its lethal

dose,  and you can find this out about every current psychoactive agent we

have. Consult the PDR.  The lethal dose of Cannabis has never been

scientifically studied, but it has been estimated (It has never been

acheived.) to be reachable by smoking 1500 pounds of Cannabis in 15 minutes.



    I find it interesting that the only medically available constituent of

Cannabis is THC, in the form of an anti-nausea medication.  I also find it

interesting that the patent for that medication is held by a company that

reportedly charges some 60 to 90 times the price of the herbal preparation.

 I propose that we legalize Cannabis, but that we make one of its

constituents illegal.  That seems to be as reasonable as what we now do.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Useful factual information on Cannabis

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:06:17 GMT

--------

> You are right to recommend the use of herbs whenever possible, but the truth

> is that Cannabis is enormously safer than virtually any of the substitutes

we

> have for it, including synthetic THC.



What do you mean 'we'? There are very few illnesses that I cannot think of

substitutes for. The only one that strikes me as an exception is terminal

cancer, or a condition that requires a therapy where relief by clouding the

spirit is deemed appropriate.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Useful factual information on Cannabis

From: LorinGuild Apothecary <woodwitch@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:10:34 EST

--------

>What do you mean 'we'? There are very few illnesses that I cannot think

of

>substitutes for. The only one that strikes me as an exception is

terminal

>cancer, or a condition that requires a therapy where relief by clouding

the

>spirit is deemed appropriate.



If I may interject here...I apparently missed the opening text, but in

reference to Cannabis only for clouding the spirit is an extrmrmly untrue

application and I assume it is from one who has never partook of the herb

in ritual use.



As for Cannabis' role in treatment of Cancer patients...it is not

allieviating the cancer.  The effects of the herb in some cases not only

PROMOTE (not cause) a sense of well being, but also stimulate the

appetite and kwell the nausea associated with Chemotherapy and other

chemical or radiational side effects.



There are more deaths and diseases associated with alcohol abuse than

ever one that the benefical and beautiful herb Cannabis Sativa has

caused.



I wish you well...

Hawk`Scry

woodwitch of LorinGuild Apothecary

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3654

-To light a candle is to cast a shadow-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Useful factual information on Cannabis

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:02:38 GMT

--------

> If I may interject here...I apparently missed the opening text, but in

> reference to Cannabis only for clouding the spirit is an extrmrmly untrue

> application and I assume it is from one who has never partook of the herb

> in ritual use.



Well, if I understand what you're trying to say, then you are wrong, because

Cannabis inflames the Liver spirit, something Americans do not as a rule

need. That is besides the plant control of spirit aspects. We are human

beings...we are not supposed to give sovereignty over our spirit to outside

forces.



> As for Cannabis' role in treatment of Cancer patients...it is not

> allieviating the cancer.  The effects of the herb in some cases not only

> PROMOTE (not cause) a sense of well being, but also stimulate the

> appetite and kwell the nausea associated with Chemotherapy and other

> chemical or radiational side effects.



There are many non-psychoactive ways to do that. This is hempist pap. Since

most hempists are hempists first, herbalists second or not at all, they cite

such effects and thereby mimic the abject ignorance of conventional medicine

about how you manage chemotherapy and treat the spirit. Cancer patients have

already ceded control to the tumor; they don't need to give up further

control to that jealous and petty plant spirit.



> There are more deaths and diseases associated with alcohol abuse than

> ever one that the benefical and beautiful herb Cannabis Sativa has

> caused.



You are a convert. Only someone who has given themselves to the Cannabis

spirit refers to her plant lover in such terms. As a healer, it is not my job

to create spirit affiliations between my patients and possessive plant

spirits. Compare the spirit of ginseng to that of hemp. Ginseng is utterly

benign, helpful, tolerant, patient, supportive, healing, generous, and

respectful of human spirit. Hemp is none of those things. It is Heating,

agitating, divisive, clouding, jealous, inflating, reality destabilizing and

disrespectful to the parameters of human being. NOT the kind of plant force I

engage to heal. It is the sort of plant you give to people if you want them

to be docile and foolish. It has ruined hundreds of thousands of lives, and

presents a hindrance to many. It has gifts to give, but at what price?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: the continuing saga of sex and sativa

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:33:56 +0100

--------

**********************************************************************

* Cannabis:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           many strange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  



Anita, *please* have a sense of humour. Having one will become you, (in the

old fashioned use of this verb.)





 On a more serious note: I realize you have your private reasons for what

you say. Shall we let emotion cloud reason? As I said many many times

already, the **only** aspect of this herb I wanted to debate was its use

for possible sexual enhancement. Keeping an open mind free from prejudices

is so important, as well as difficult. Do you realize that in a recent

study it was found that smoking cigarettes (using tobacco) helps people

suffering from schizophrenia. It's the nicotine which helps sort out some

chemicals in their brains and makes them *less* likely to go off the deep

end. If I've learned anything in life it's that *anything* is possible and

that 'experience' is something that you don't get until just after you need

it. 





One of my favourite people as I was growing up was Sir Richard Burton. Not

so much because he married Elizabeth Taylor or that he was a great

Shakespearian actor, but because he was the greatest explorer of the

nineteenth century. He was a great linguist and orientalist who translated

into English "The Book of the Thousand and One Nights". He was not the only

one to do so but *his* work is the most prized and is always referred to as

"the Burton translation", much valued for its footnotes and index. I happen

to possess a rare publication of this work in three volumes that take up

some four thousand pages. It came into my possession some years ago; I

consider myself lucky to have purchased it on the street while passing

through Tangier some years ago for only about $25. 



I quote a footnote from Volume II page 948:



---Page 894--Line 15 The Pers. "Bang"; Indian "Bhang"; Moroccan 'Faskh";

and S. African "Dakha"... I heard of a "hashish orgie" in London which

ended with half the experimentalists being on their sofa for a

week...Easterns also use it for "Imsk" prolonging coition, of which I

speak presently.---



The defense rests.                                         



Disclaimer: Do not take this herb if you are seeking sexual pleasure or any

other kind of pleasure. Its effects vary from person to person. It is

illegal and inhaling the smoke from burning substances will most likely

damage your lungs. Needless to say I am not selling it. Warranties may vary

from state to state. If in doubt consult the surgeon general of the United

States. He will always know what is best for you.





By the way I have read the "factual information" you mailed to the list. I

quote you:



>I thought it would be appropriate in light of recent

>comments about the "beneficent and wonderful pot" that you get >some

factual information. 





Anita, *(seriously here)* Were those *my* comments? Are you quoting *me*?

(or even summarizing what I said). I have been talking about properties

known for thousands of years throughout the Middle East and Asia. Have I

said anything similar to the above?







 I know it's useless to say this but at least 75% of the fact sheet was

completely inaccurate. Funny how people see things in different ways. I do

not want to in any way be a defender of the *use* as recreation of this

herb by anyone, but a populace informed truthfully is usually a stronger

and better populace rather than one living in imagined fear of something.

It is difficult to resist when one sees outright fabrications posted on the

net. I imagine that these stories are made up to discourage youth and so

serve some purpose. But as I commented before, what if perchance youth

*does* experiment or have friends that do and find these warnings to be no

more than hype. Loss of faith in one's elders and the government is the

price we may be paying.(if not their willingness to try something harder

because of lack of trust in warnings). Anybody remember the hype of the

1930's against cannabis? It was "rampaging, marijuana sex-fiends"  etc.

etc. Most crime was related to the *use* of cannabis (by fiends),

afro-americans were especially singled out to heighten fear. 



Well, as I said to Terry, no point in carrying on with this. We've both

made our points. You can post again if you want to answer anything in this

one and have the last word. Please stick to topic though. Read the headers.

To tell you the truth I began this topic out of boredom in hopes of getting

the list back to its old self after the heaviness of the past week when the

only posts were about you know what.  





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: the continuing saga of sex and sativa

From: Cindy Lee <cindylee@MINDSPRING.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:04:15 -0500

--------

At 10:33 AM 1/26/97 +0100, Eric Feingold wrote:



>Its effects vary from person to person.



This is what makes it even more dangerous and is why it should not be tried.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ><>  <><

       |_

      \__/



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Smiles,

     Cindy Lee

       Zone 8

cindylee@mindspring.com

    WEB yourself @

    ArachniDesigns

http://www.mindspring.com/~sinbrad/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  A rose by any other name would likely be

   "deadly thorn-bearing assault vegetation."

            (Robert Bullock)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: the continuing saga of sex and sativa

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:03:36 -0900

--------

>Well, as I said to Terry, no point in carrying on with this. We've both

>made our points. You can post again if you want to answer anything in this

>one and have the last word. Please stick to topic though. Read the headers.

>To tell you the truth I began this topic out of boredom in hopes of getting

>the list back to its old self after the heaviness of the past week when the

>only posts were about you know what.

>

>

Well, having no sense of humor is something I've never been accused of

before.  What a refreshing change.  There's lots of information on cannabis

available on the internet.  Lots of it hogwash, lots of it informative and

correct.  I do not disagree that it has useful medicinal qualities.  I have

even stated previously on this list that I think it should be legal for

medicinal use only but should be highly regulated and severly punished for

abusers.  The whole question of using this for sexual enhancement is moot

for most of Americans anyway since it is ILLEGAL!   PS, long heavy use of

Pot has been implicated in sexual DYSFUNCTION.  You may think it helps now

but later it may cause problems.  Use something else.  Find the ROOT CAUSE

OF THE PROBLEM and treat that.

   If a person has sexual problems related to other physical problems for

which they are taking drugs, simply smoking a joint won't help.  (I believe

that was the origin of this discussion.)  That person needs to take care of

the other problems and the sexual dysfunction will take care of itself.

   As to the "quoted" material, it was a somewhat feeble attempt at a

sarcastic parallel to the Wizard of Oz.  I have long felt that pot abusers

follow the "yellow brick road" into fantasy.  There is a bug difference

between a person with a legal prescription to use the drug for a disease and

a person who uses it, tra-la, for fun.  I do not consider it a safe herb for

the general populace.

   don't apologize for starting an interesting discussion.  It's OK to

disagree. No one needs to be offended.  Disagreements bring out information

that is valuable.  The more information presented, the better.  Peace!

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: Paul & Kathy Sedler <smeherbs@MAKO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 03:38:43 -0800

--------

At 04:55 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Could anyone give me information for the best treatment for mild burns?

>

>Thanks,

>

>Joanna



I use aloe vera gel with great success.  It takes the pain away and speeds

healing when used externally.



Kathy McQuade-Sedler



Sedler's Mother Earth Herbs - 5272-A West Gold Ct., Beale AFB, CA  95903

916-788-0138 ***** email SMEHerbs@mako.com

FAX 916-788-0849 (not dedicated line)

(All appropriate disclaimers apply.)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: question

From: Coral <coral@COBWEB.NL>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:29:00 +0100

--------

Does anyone know any good web sites to visit re: herbs and the recipes for

usage?  I am just starting to experiment with herbs and would like to know

more about how to make herbal teas and such.

I am also new to the list so if this is too far off topic please don't

flame me....

thanks

coral





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: question

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:16:05 EST

--------

Coral,



If you are interested in using herbs in different ways, a nice book would

be,  A Home Herbal by Penelope Ody.



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: question

From: ROBERTSON WYNTRENE L <wlrobert@OLYMPIC.CTC.EDU>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:01:46 -0800

--------

Coral wrote:

>

> Does anyone know any good web sites to visit re: herbs and the recipes for

> usage?  I am just starting to experiment with herbs and would like to know

> more about how to make herbal teas and such.

> I am also new to the list so if this is too far off topic please don't

> flame me....

> thanks

> coral

if you go under net search type in herbs and recipes, you might find

something ... Wendy





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: question

From: John Hargrove <hhbotan@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:47:46 -0500

--------

>Coral wrote:

>>

>> Does anyone know any good web sites to visit re: herbs and the recipes for

>> usage?  I am just starting to experiment with herbs and would like to know

>> more about how to make herbal teas and such.

>> I am also new to the list so if this is too far off topic please don't

>> flame me....

>> thanks

>> coral

>if you go under net search type in herbs and recipes, you might find

>something ... Wendy



A great book if you would like some recipes and general information is The

Complete Book of Herbs by Leslie Bremness.  It is a bit "iffy" on some of

the information, but generally a good book for beginners.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.

                                        - Frank Lloyd Wright

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~John & Lea Ann Hargrove  -  H&H Botanicals  -

http://www.tir.com/~hhbotan/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: a different type of healing

From: Geoff & Mary Orr <gorr@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:07:37 -0500

--------

My mother, who lives near Phila., PA, would love to heal her house of bugs,

in particular box elder insects.



Could someone suggest helpful herbs that she could scatter around her house

to deter these insects.  Would pennyroyal, for example, be helpful?



Mary Orr

Geoff and Mary Orr

gorr@ix.netcom.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: a different type of healing

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:03:38 -0900

--------

At 08:07 AM 1/26/97 -0500, Geoff & Mary Orr wrote:

>My mother, who lives near Phila., PA, would love to heal her house of bugs,

>in particular box elder insects.

>

>Could someone suggest helpful herbs that she could scatter around her house

>to deter these insects.  Would pennyroyal, for example, be helpful?

>

>Mary Orr

>Geoff and Mary Orr

>gorr@ix.netcom.com

>

>

Perhaps cedar paneling would do the trick.

**********************************************************************

* Garlic:  "...in men oppressed by melancholy it will...send up...   *

*           manystrange visions to the head:  therefore, inwardly,   *

*           let it be taken with great moderation."                  *

* Nicolas Culpepper, 1653                                            *

**********************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Kombucha and vinegar

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:14:55 GMT

--------

> The kombucha mass is a bacterial culture,

> not a fungus.



That is not correct. It is a yeast, which is technically a fungus. It is just

not a mushroom. The bacterial cohort is not the usual way of referring to

yeasts. Many yeasts have bacterial cohorts...only those trying to sell

themselves and others on a panacea focus on the bacteria.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Kombucha and vinegar

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:17:15 EST

--------

The kombucha "mushroom" is really a sort of mother of vinegar.  Kombucha

"tea"  is a variety of vinegar made with a tea and sugar water base.  It

is not a pasturized vinegar.  The kombucha mass is a bacterial culture,

not a fungus.



Vinegars, especially herbal vinegars, may do as much for you.  I take a

premade (pasturized) apple cider vinegar and soak oatstraw or nettle or

rasberry leaves or white pine needles in it for 6 weeks.  Vinegar will

extract the minerals and other components of the herbs so infused because

of its acid content.  I am told that a tablespoon of infused vinegar

(made with a jar of herb topped with vinegar to the top, infused for 6

weeks and squeezed and decanted) has the calcium equivalence of a glass

of milk and is better assimilated by the body.  If you think that the

bacterial culture has benefit, add some mother of vinegar after the herb

is removed, or mix with an unpasturized vinegar.  (There is a

corresponding dilution of herb).  Unpasturized vinegar sometimes turns

the herb into a slimy mass or discolors it.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Qi, was Re(2): East is East and West is Wes

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:15:05 GMT

--------

> >> Qi per se is

> not equivalent to any form of energy.>>

>

> I thought Qi meant vital energy or life force.  I thought it meant

> "energy"... So what you are saying, if I understand it, does Qi mean,

> "natural material or naturally occuring things?

>

> -Heidi-



No, Qi means influence. A palm tree makes you think of the tropics. That

influence, that something that affects your awareness, that is Qi. In the

ancient Chinese worldview, there was Xing, shape or form, and Qi, influence.

A palm tree has a certain shape, its Xing, and that shape has a certain Qi,

namely that it reminds one of the tropics (in this example). That influence

is certainly not 'energy,' in any way we understand that as 'the capacity to

do work.' Influences do the work of affecting our awareness, but that is

hardly a kind of energy as we consider energy in the modern paradigm.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Qi, was Re(2): East is East and West is Wes

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:11:47 EST

--------

Paul,



Thanks!  I understand Qi much better now and now can keep up!



Thanks again!

-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: qi

From: Heidi Feldman <heidi10@JUNO.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:16:04 EST

--------

Hi Pat,



>> it's way over my head!!>>  Don't worry Pat, you are not alone.  TCM is

indeed very complicated and most interesting once you understand

something.  If you do not understand something, PLEASE ask!  There are a

lot of things I don't understand and a lot of things are said in a way I

cannot quite understand, so I ask to have it re-phrased or explained in

detail.  Just ask!  Smile.



-Heidi-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: refractory surgery

From: DEANA <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:49:14 -0600

--------

Hello.  I just recently nailed down a date to have my eye surgery, in

June I will go in and hopefully fix my horrible near-sightedness and

astignatism.  I am writing so far in advance because I wnat to know if

there is any herbs I could take to prepare me for this surgery.  i

will be hoping for a fast recovery...and of course, I pray that the

surgery does work so that I may be once again a 20/20 or somewhere

near that without the use of contacts or glasses.  Any ideas?



Deana





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: refractory surgery

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:37:55 -0800

--------

At 12:49 PM 1/26/97 -0600,  DEANA <DMZACCAGNINI@TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU>

wrote:

>Hello.  I just recently nailed down a date to have my eye surgery, in

>June I will go in and hopefully fix my horrible near-sightedness and

>astignatism.  I am writing so far in advance because I wnat to know if

>there is any herbs I could take to prepare me for this surgery.  i

>will be hoping for a fast recovery...and of course, I pray that the

>surgery does work so that I may be once again a 20/20 or somewhere

>near that without the use of contacts or glasses.  Any ideas?

>

>Deana

>

Hello Deana,



You might explore the uses of Horsetail (Equisteum arvense) and Bilberry

(Vacinium myrtillus).



Be well,

Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Can herbs be drugs?

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:42:39 GMT

--------

> Steven Foster, author of HERBAL EMISSARIES,



Co-author.



>says, "The Chinese distinguish

> between plants used as "drugs" in TCM and "herbs."  approximately 500 plant

> species produce TCM drugs."



You misread this. What Foster is saying is that only a fraction of the plants

in use in Chinese folk herbalism are official drugs in TCM.



>   What are your thoughts on this?  I am inclined to think there are many

> drugs in the plant world.  Many which will kill you.  Let's discuss.



Of course there are. The concept of a 'drug,' is, as you note, rather vague.

In my view, the idea is best encapsulated by profundity of action. Any plant

with profound action usually has a strong 'directionality.' If misused, that

intense direction can kill or injure.



The value of this conception is that it accounts for the negative

side-effects of longterm use of strong plants such as ginseng.



> *************************************************************************

> * Schizandra:  "The Chinese name wu-wei-zi, meaning "five taste-fruits  *

> *              derives from the fact that the fruits are sweet, sour    *

> *              bitter, pungent (hot) and salty.  The herb is considered *

> *              "balanced" by virtue of this distribution of flavors.    *

> *Steven Foster and Yue Chongxi-HERBAL EMISSARIES                        *



Supposedly the balance of those flavors has changed over time, to reflect

changes in the earth's Qi.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Can herbs be drugs?

From: Anita Hales <hales1@KTN.NET>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:03:22 -0900

--------

In a dictionary definition a drug is: "a chemical substance administered to

a person or animal to prevent or cure disease or otherwise enyhance

phuysical or mental welfare. 2. a habit-forming medicinal substance;

narcotic...vt 6. to mix food or drink with a drug, esp a stupefying narcotic

or poisonous drug. 7. to stupefy or poison with a drug.  8. to administer a

medicinal drug to..."

  This definition fits may herbal medicinal plants including poppy and

cannabis among many others.

  Steven Foster, author of HERBAL EMISSARIES, says, "The Chinese distinguish

between plants used as "drugs" in TCM and "herbs."  approximately 500 plant

species produce TCM drugs."

  What are your thoughts on this?  I am inclined to think there are many

drugs in the plant world.  Many which will kill you.  Let's discuss.

*************************************************************************

* Schizandra:  "The Chinese name wu-wei-zi, meaning "five taste-fruits  *

*              derives from the fact that the fruits are sweet, sour    *

*              bitter, pungent (hot) and salty.  The herb is considered *

*              "balanced" by virtue of this distribution of flavors.    *

*Steven Foster and Yue Chongxi-HERBAL EMISSARIES                        *

*************************************************************************

* Anita Hales, hales1@alaska.ktn.net                                 *

**********************************************************************





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Kombucha, was Re(2): Administrivia

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:57:26 -0800

--------

At 12:35 AM 1/26/97 GMT, you wrote:

>> Can someone give me any information about Kombucha mushroom.  Actually it is

>> not mushroom but a bacteria culture, I understand.

>

>Kombucha is primarily a fungus, a yeast like Brewer's yeast. We don't discuss

>it on this list, but my .10 is that the claims are HUGELY exaggerated.

>

>Paul

>

I believe you can very much the same action and benefit taking apple cider

vinegar, diluted in water.



Be well,





Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Herbal Supp for vascular occlusion

From: James Reisinger <REISINGERJ@AOL.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:16:59 -0500

--------

I have been observing this Web Site for about 2 weeks and find a great

abundance of well educated and informed people in the area of Alternative

Herbal Medicine.  I was wondering if perhaps some of your might comment on my

condition.  (I am new to the Internet and a novice at searcing for specific

information.)



I am a 62 yr old male whose health has been very good until the last 18

months or so.



I have been diagnosed as having an overgrowth of intestinal Candidas Albicans

and a slightly elevated level of mercury.  My symptom's were (are) loss of

energy and more importantly, loss of cognitive powers.  My ability to

concentrate has diminished tremendously and my ability to recall certain

words and names that in the past was little or no problem.  I have had two

angina attacks in the past 24 month's but echocardiogram's indicate no

problem with my heart.  I have declined a suggestion to undergo an angiogram

on the suggestion of a second opinion from another cardiologist.  I do have a

rather significant crease in the right earlobe, which, according to some, is

indicative of cerebral vascular occlusion.  I also have a rather severe case

of tinnitus.  The tinnitus is always present, the amplitude and pattern

change from time to time.  My family physician told me there is nothing that

can be done for the dementia and the tinnitus.  I have found a MD who is more

in tune with Alternative Medicine (AM), including the administering of

Chelation Therapy.  This MD also has his Master's Degree in Nutritional

Medicine.



I have read several books on AM, Forty Something Forever, Bypassing Bypass,

Dr. Whitaker's Guide to Natural Healing, and other's.  From these readings

and my symptom's, I have concluded that the most logical cause of my

condition is vascular occlusion, probably throughout but with the most

significant being the cerebral area.



My doctor is treating me with dietary changes and Nystatin to kill the Yeast.

 He has put me on a supplementation of vitamin's and mineral's and I am

currently undergoing the EDTA Chelation Therapy.  My diet has been restricted

from caffeine, simple carbohydrates (sugar's, fruit and fruit juices), no

carbonation product's, chocolates and a multitude of other sensitive foods,

most predominantly Wheat and Dairy product's.  I am on a high protein

(meat/fish/fowl) with select veggies and select grains, mostly rice and

oat's.  Among the dietary supplement's, he has prescribed heavy doses of

Garlic, Flaxseed Oil, L-Carnitine and L-Acidophilus/Biffidus/FOS.  I have

been on this treatment now for about three months.  I have noticed

appreciable improvement in my energy level and some improvement in my

cognitive abilities (but far from what they were a few years ago).  I have

had no improvement to date from the tinnitus.



I have added to my supplement's, from the reading of several books on Herbs,

Ginkgo Biloba, Echinacea/Golden Seal, Grape Seed Extract, Cayenne, Pau D'Arco

(Tablets and Tea), COQ10 and Nettles.



My question is, i) I am unsure of what Herbs are beneficial and in what

dosage's ( I understand that mixture and dosage is very important), ii) are

there other avenue's that I might be considering to correct the above

conditions?  Any suggestions would be most appreciated and specific reading

material or Web Pages with more info.



Thank all of you for your most learned opinions.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbal Supp for vascular occlusion

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:30:42 GMT

--------

> I am a 62 yr old male whose health has been very good until the last 18

> months or so.



Yang constitution.



> I have been diagnosed as han overgrowth of intestinal Candidas Albicans

> and a slightly elevated level of mercury.



Worthless diagnoses!



>My symptom's were (are) loss of

> energy and more importantly, loss of cognitive powers.  My ability to

> concentrate has diminished tremendously and my ability to recall certain

> words and names that in the past was little or no problem.



Weak Digestion unable to produce Heart Blood.



>I have had two

> angina attacks in the past 24 month's but echocardiogram's indicate no

> problem with my heart.



Blood Stagnation due to lack of Heart Blood.



>I have declined a suggestion to undergo an angiogram

> on the suggestion of a second opinion from another cardiologist.  I do have

a

> rather significant crease in the right earlobe, which, according to some,

is

> indicative of cerebral vascular occlusion.  I also have a rather severe

case

> of tinnitus.



Low rumble, or high pitched?



> The tinnitus is always present, the amplitude and pattern

> change from time to time.  My family physician told me there is nothing

that

> can be done for the dementia and the tinnitus.  I have found a MD who is

more

> in tune with Alternative Medicine (AM), including the administering of

> Chelation Therapy.  This MD also has his Master's Degree in Nutritional

> Medicine.



FORGET Chelation therapy. A waste of money.



> I have read several books on AM, Forty Something Forever, Bypassing Bypass,

> Dr. Whitaker's Guide to Natural Healing, and other's.  From these readings

> and my symptom's, I have concluded that the most logical cause of my

> condition is vascular occlusion, probably throughout but with the most

> significant being the cerebral area.



Possible, but your conventional doctors should have been able to diagnose

that.



> My doctor is treating me with dietary changes and Nystatin to kill the

Yeast.



Attacking your Digestion further with Nystatin is idiotic.



>  He has put me on a supplementation of vitamin's and mineral's and I am

> currently undergoing the EDTA Chelation Therapy.  My diet has been

restricted

> from caffeine, simple carbohydrates (sugar's, fruit and fruit juices), no

> carbonation product's, chocolates and a multitude of other sensitive foods,

> most predominantly Wheat and Dairy product's.  I am on a high protein

> (meat/fish/fowl) with select veggies and select grains, mostly rice and

> oat's.  Among the dietary supplement's, he has prescribed heavy doses of

> Garlic, Flaxseed Oil, L-Carnitine and L-Acidophilus/Biffidus/FOS.  I have

> been on this treatment now for about three months.  I have noticed

> appreciable improvement in my energy level and some improvement in my

> cognitive abilities (but far from what they were a few years ago).  I have

> had no improvement to date from the tinnitus.

>

> I have added to my supplement's, from the reading of several books on

Herbs,

> Ginkgo Biloba, Echinacea/Golden Seal, Grape Seed Extract, Cayenne, Pau

D'Arco

> (Tablets and Tea), COQ10 and Nettles.

>

> My question is, i) I am unsure of what Herbs are beneficial and in what

> dosage's ( I understand that mixture and dosage is very important), ii) are

> there other avenue's that I might be considering to correct the above

> conditions?  Any suggestions would be most appreciated and specific reading

> material or Web Pages with more info.



Ginseng! Preferably in a formula called Gui Pi Tang, which is specific for

generating Heart Blood. In any case, get good quality some Chinese white

ginseng, and have some every day. Most of the rest of the therapies I suspect

are improper or needless, and therefore needlessly expensive. IT IS VERY HARD

FOR ME TO IMAGINE THAT YOU WERE WELL UNTIL RECENTLY, and the cause is Mercury

or candida. I would call it nonsense, but I don't want to upset the

children....



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbal Supp for vascular occlusion

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:51:14 GMT

--------

> Also, there is a homeopathic product by Professional Health Products from

> Evans City, PA.  called MYCOCAN 6X.  Very effective.  My chiropractor

carries

> this product.



Bad idea. Homeopathics do things that you may never know. Why did you get

really, really depressed a few years from now? Maybe because of some

homeopathic crap you took for 'candida.' What a NON-holistic diagnosis and

treatment!



The idea that ghee will eliminate candida is hilarious. Utter nonsense.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbal Supp for vascular occlusion

From: Nikki Todd <NikkiTodd@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:41:49 -0500

--------

I'm new to this site.  Hanna Kroeger has several flushes that might be of

some use.   She has one called green bean soup that flushes out mercury, etc.





 One that I have heard of this past week flushes candida from the small

intestine.  It is:



     Day 1 - 1 teaspoon ghee     -     then wait 25 minutes until you eat

anything else.

     Day 2 - 2 teaspoons ghee   -     then wait 25 minutes until you eat

anything else.

     Day 3 - 3 teaspoons ghee   -     then wait 25 minutes until you eat

anything else.

     Day 4 - 5 teaspoons ghee   -     then wait 25 minutes until you eat

anything else.

     Day 5 - 7 teaspoons ghee   -     then wait 25 minutes until you eat

anything else.



     Food must be fat free for the five days.



     At night on the fifth day - take a warm bath with warm water up past the

torso for at least 20 minutes.  While in the tub, drink 4 ounces of castor

oil (a straw helps get it down).



This process supposedly flushes out candida.



Also, there is a homeopathic product by Professional Health Products from

Evans City, PA.  called MYCOCAN 6X.  Very effective.  My chiropractor carries

this product.



I have just ordered from American Biologics a product called Oxyfresh that is

supposed to help kill the candida fungus.  No idea on whether this product is

good or not.



Several people I know have the candida fungus.  My dog also has it and it

shows up in his ears.  I just finished the 5-day flush with him and have

started him on the MYCOCAN.



Don't know if this is something you could use or not.



Nikki





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Hbp, was Re(2): east vs west

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:26:25 GMT

--------

> What are the causes for elevated BP caused by heat or by cold (I assume)?

My

> father, now deceased, had high BP most of his life- he never weighed over

150

> lbs (was 5'9" tall).  He was on medication for the BP, but I don't think it

> helped a lot.  He had no kidney disease or vascular disease of which we are

> aware.  I think the term used in reference to his PB was "idiopathic" high

> bp.



An essentially meaningless diagnosis.



>Note of interest:  my father was an MD.  He was 76 when he died (due to

> metastatic prostate cancer-- metastasis to skeletal and pulmonary systems),

> but he had high BP years and years prior to that.  He was rather high

strung

> and had a volatile temperament, to put it mildly!



He had a good long life, but sorry to hear about your loss. This type of hpb

is most likely Liver Yang Attacking Upward, a problem where the hbp is due to

Qi from the Liver becoming Heating and exploding upward, injuring the Heart

and the Blood. Such cases can often result in strokes, but they definitely

involve HEAT. That Heat has to be moved through the Bladder and Lungs,

mainly. The Bladder and the bones belong to the Kidney system...so if the

Bladder is Hot, the bones are too.



> I'm concerned right now because my son, age 27, is starting to have BP

> readings in the range of 140/90 --not due to exertion.



A cause for concern, indeed.



>He is 6'4" and weighs

> around 180 lbs.  He is a rather easy going, laid-back type of person, a

> classical pianist and composer--plays in a band--not the type of

personality

> my father was at all!  He appears to be getting some food sensitivities--

has

> racing pulse and feelings of anxiety after eating Oriental foods ----

Could

> MSG be involved?



What else could be?



>He does not drink coffee but does drink iced tea and colas

> on occasion.



Well, not enough of a picture to hazard much of a guess, I'm afraid. Probably

some sort of insomnia pattern is also present?



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Hbp, was Re(2): east vs west

From: "Patricia C. McMullen" <Redgato@AOL.COM>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:35:55 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-27 02:46:32 EST, you write:





>He is 6'4" and weighs around 180 lbs.  He is a rather easy going, laid-back

type of >person, a classical pianist and composer--plays in a band--not the

type of >personality my father was at all!  He appears to be getting some

food sensitivities--

>has racing pulse and feelings of anxiety after eating Oriental foods ----

>Could MSG be involved?



>What else could be?



>He does not drink coffee but does drink iced tea and colas

> on occasion.



<< Well, not enough of a picture to hazard much of a guess, I'm afraid.

Probably

 some sort of insomnia pattern is also present?



 Paul

  >>



Hi Paul (and List),

(I am sending this message to the list rather than just to Paul because I

thought it might be a topic from which we could all learn)



I called my son this morning to ask about the insomia (not thinking for a

moment that could be because he always slept more than I thought was possible

when he lived at home).  Much to my surprise, he said he was really having

problems sleeping!  What else do you want to know that might help determine

what is causing the hign BP?



He does not smoke, but has a new girl friend that does smoke cigarettes.

 They do not live in the same house so he is not continually exposed to

tobacco smoke (but is around it more than he ever has been since noone in our

family smokes).



I have asked people in the vitamin/ health food stores in this area  (NE

Florida) about "healers" and have not been given any information except the

name of one MD that does use "some alternative healing" (I don't know

anything about him other than that).  My son has an appointment with a

"conventional"(if that's the term) MD later this week because we don't know

where else to turn. I'm really worried about his BP because my husband's

mother and father died from high BP related causes (one from massive CVA and

the other from MI).  I already mentioned my father's elevated PB so my son

has a history of high BP on both sides of his family.



Any insights?  Any more questions?  This is scarey (you know how mothers

are)!!!



Pat





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Parkinsons Disease

From: Paula Baumgartner <yogt@MAIL.KIVA.NET>

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:04:37 -0500

--------

Anybody have experience with medicinal therapies and Parkinsons?



Peace,  Paula





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Can herbs be drugs

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:06:45 +0100

--------

Anita,

        I wasn't exactly sure to whom you addressed the question: "What are your

thoughts on this?"  but I took the "your" to be plural. Sorry, in advance,

if you were addressing it to someone in particular.

        To posit my opinion:

        Language is power. Social, political and economic. African-Americans and

Latinos have told me this on occasion. Re the latest debate in Oakland. By

choosing to call one planetary substance an herb, a drug, or a medicine

what you are really doing, perhaps unconsciously, is buying into an agenda.

Language is another method to control how people think. One week's worth of

tv publicity can completely change how we feel about or how we use any

particular word or label. Language is not value neutral.

In the trade 'us teachas' have a name for the English which must be taught

in American schools; we call it SWE, Standard White English. If you do not

know how to use this form of English (it doesn't matter what language you

use at home) then you ain't gonna go nowhere in life.

        In the "use" of SWE at this particular juncture in history the word drugs

conjures up substance abuse or may even be used to describe something not

abused in the streets but deemed 'dangerous'. Herbs and medicines=curative

(or quack) elements. (edit.note-quack is not sold on the streets by people

with speech defects)

        The word drugs seems to have shifted slightly since I was a kid growing

up in America. I remember that people bought 'drugs' at the 'Drugstore' to

cure whatever ailed them.

All of these definitions may of course change either next week or over

time. In present day Spain the word 'drogas' always refers to substance

abuse and what you get at the farmacia are 'medicinas' although they do,

funnily enough, have shops that are called 'Droguerias' where you buy

things like paints, chemicals, detergents even perfumes. (You never really

know what you might find in one of them).

        Anyway one person may be talking about the herb, just to pick one out of a

hat, cannabis sativa, and say "this herb" while another may say "this

drug", both accurate for time and place and both reflecting the inner

convictions of the person.



 I like the definition given by Fred Rodriguez in his recent post although

I have no desire to impose it on others. I have always been enamoured of

the mental yoga required to *attempt* to pose value neutral definitions on

things in life. A plant is a plant and even if it bugs hell out of you that

someone is having too good a time with it, it remains a plant. Take it into

the lab and process it, essencify it, extract one of its ingredients and

you have a drug or a medicine. At the end of the day, it's really in the

eye of the beholder and the choice of word says more about the speaker and

his outlook than about the substance itself.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

From: John Hargrove <hhbotan@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:52:31 -0500

--------

Hello everyone.  We just recently subscribed, and would like to take this

time to say Hi and introduce ourselves.

My wife (Lea Ann) and I live in central-eastern Lower Michigan, between

Flint and Lansing, where we run our nursery: H&H Botanicals.  We have

always had a deep love for herbs and rock plants, and have found that most

"herbs" go great in the rock garden such as: Thymus, Origanum, Rosmarinus

(just the lower ones like 'Blue Boy' and 'Holly Hyde'), Hyssopus, and

Satureja.

Our main loves are are anything from the Genra: Saxifraga, Draba, Salvia,

Thymus, Gentiana, Rosmarinus, Primula, Buddleia, and Geraniums.  I can

never get enough of any of them!

We have been deeply emersed in the study of herbs (esp. taxonomy) and I

hope that we can be of some use to this group.

We do have a web site set up with information of what is going on with us

and the plant world, plus our current plant catalogs.  We would love to

have anyone visit us (pleaseleave us a story or peom, or whatever to post

in the Visitors Page).

Well, I hope that we can help contribute to any and all discussions.

Thanks, John Hargrove, Vernon MI Zone 5



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.

                                        - Frank Lloyd Wright

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~John & Lea Ann Hargrove  -  H&H Botanicals  -

http://www.tir.com/~hhbotan/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: MAO-inhibitors

From: Adele Lewis <lewisar@WHITMAN.EDU>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:40:26 -0800

--------

Could someone please clarify for my what exactly MAO is?  I have seen this

term flying around a lot lately on the list (even coming out of the mouths

of my

friends who seem to be "playing around" with them).  I have the vague

notion that MAO may be a neurotransmiter and do understand the basics of

transmition, reabsorption, etc.

Thanks in advance,

Adele





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MAO-inhibitors

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:49:01 +0000

--------

> From:          Adele Lewis <lewisar@WHITMAN.EDU>



> Could someone please clarify for my what exactly MAO is?  I have seen this

> term flying around a lot lately on the list (even coming out of the mouths

> of my

> friends who seem to be "playing around" with them).  I have the vague

> notion that MAO may be a neurotransmiter and do understand the basics of

> transmition, reabsorption, etc.

> Thanks in advance,

> Adele

>

>





Oh this one sounds like fun, I'll give it a try. MAO is monoamine

oxidase, an enzyme that regulates neurotransmitters, and a name that

is fun to say really fast.



We have nerves. At one place the nerve ends, and there is a space

between one nerve and the next. This is called the synapse. Messages

are carried across these synaptic spaces by neurotransmitters like

seratonin, dopamine, adrenalin (epinephrine), and others. MAO is the

enzyme responsible for the regulation of some of these

neurotransmitters in some areas of the nervous system. When you take

an MAO inhibitor, the breakdown and transmission of these

neurotransmitters becomes confused, causing a wide variety of

strangeness like a buildup of neurotransmitters on the presynaptic

end followed by a rush of them flying across the synapse. This is

only one possibilty of many, and one of my friends swears she can

tell that her neurotransmitters fly part way across the synaptic

spaces, and then hesitate in between, perhaps explaining the altered

feelings she experiences from the MAO inhibitor.



--- Oh where, oh where has my neurotransmitters gone? Oh where, oh

where can they be? ----



As Marcia has said, tricyclic antidepressants are MAO inhibitors, as

well as Yohimbe bark and a number of hallucinogenic plants. The

problem with these substances is that MAO is responsible for a number

of things in the body, and without it, many substances ordinarily

non-toxic can become very toxic. For example, fermented cheeses and

alcohol can be deadly with MAOIs. Special diets are required during

the  time you take these to prevent side effects.



Right now they are becoming quite popular in the natural hallucinogen

crowd. The way it works is that the Ayahuasca (a south american

visionary hallucingenic plant mixture , for those who have been

sleeping)  is said to be MAOIs mixed with the hallucinogenic DMT

containing plants. I have seen folks selling (and taking) supposed

north american ayahuasca made from North American analogs to the

South American plants. The supposed chemistry is: MAO regulates

certain chemicals from crossing the blood/ brain barrier. Of course,

one would reasonably think that this keeps us alive, protects our

brains from unwanted chemicals. With the MAOI, the hallucinogenic DMT

containing plants can cross this barrier, entering directly into the

brain, enhancing the visionary experience. These chemical scenarios

are hypothetical to me, I don't really know, and I don't think people

really know the intricate details. Makes a good enough story, though,

for understanding some basic concepts. Perhaps its true. Either way,

you're messing with your brain chemistry on a deep level. It can be

disastrous. Well, if we were under the supervision of the shaman,

well trained from generations of experience in dosage, care of the

people involved, etc., then I might consider experimenting. But not

for some fun with friends.



BTW, the guy who was selling that stuff said he had poison oak on his

face. That's why he was coming to me, for poison oak relief. Later,

the poison oak went away as mysteriously as it appeared. After some

thought, I realized it could not have been poison oak, it seemed to

be some sort of photosensitivity causing a rash in a visor like

fashion around his eyes. Well, well, well.



One last point. St John's Wort is a MAO inhibitor, but not enough to

cause any problems, nor enough of an MAOI to explain it's

anti-depressive effects. Let me say this one more time ....

Hypericum's effect is NOT due to MAO inhibition, although the plant

does show a certain amount of MAOI activity, it is very small and

comparable to certain MAOI foods that most of us eat eat (like bree

cheese).







Howie Brounstein

howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



-insert snappy herb joke here-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MAO-inhibitors

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:02:07 -0800

--------

At 02:40 PM 1/27/97 -0800, you wrote:

>Could someone please clarify for my what exactly MAO is?  I have seen this

>term flying around a lot lately on the list (even coming out of the mouths

>of my

>friends who seem to be "playing around" with them).  I have the vague

>notion that MAO may be a neurotransmiter and do understand the basics of

>transmition, reabsorption, etc.

>Thanks in advance,

>Adele

>

Some antidepressant drugs trigger the release of chemicals in the brain that

stimulate nerve activity.  Others, notably tricyclic antidepressants and

monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) prolong the active life of these

chemicals after their release.  I'm not sure I'd "play around" with anything

that had the possible side effect of abnormal heart rhythm, seizures, coma

and, occasionally, death.



Be well,

Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Liver herbs, insomnia and pain

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:42:06 EST

--------

You didn't mention what type of liver disease you are dealing with, but

since you won't be unsubscribed without going through LISTSERV, I thought

I might offer a few suggestions.



Dandelion leaves in salads, as cooked greens and a decotion of the roots

drunk twice a day would help support your liver.  Milk thistle seed can

be added to the decoction as well.  Alternatively take tinctures of both,

in a little warm water to evaporate off the alcohol.



For insomnia, I would try sniffing the essential oil of lavender, which

has tested out better than sleeping pills according to recent research.

Make sure you have time to wind down before bed, do a contemplative

movement discipline in the evening.



Oatstraw is an excellent nervine and a tasty drink.  Put an ounce in a

glass jar before bed, pour in a quart of boiling water and cap.  Strain

and drink in the morning and throughout the day.



Needless to say, you should avoid coffee.  If this is difficult, try

eating bitter herbs (radicchio helps me).  I find that the oatstraw

infusion helps take the edge off and I don't need the coffee.



Give us more information before you go if you want other suggestions.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 04:53:45 -0600 Andrew and Julie Cox

<abc1128@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> writes:

>Group,

>

>I joined this list 2 days ago in hope's of finding a friendly relaxing

>atmosphere.  I was looking for help coping with a liver disease that I

>am

>have been slowly dying from for the past 23 years.  I thought I might

>find

>information on herbs to help my insomnia and pain.  Instead I see such

>anger and I am afraid this just isn't healthy for me and I am going to

>have

>to ask you to unsubscribe me from this list.

>

>Thank you,

>

>Julie

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: TCM Books

From: "A. Blake" <amblake@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:37:13 -0800

--------

On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Paul Iannone wrote:



> > This is one of the best texts available. It is rather expensive though.>>

> >   Yup!  Sure is, but absolutely worth it for anyone seriously interested

> > in TCM... the cost is $85.00.

>

> The companion text on herbalism is now out. I don't have it, but I've looked

> (salivated) at it, and it appears excellent. It is, however, something like

> $120.

>

> Paul

>

Yes, I certainly know what you're talking about when herbal book lust

enters your heart.  I am a beginner in reading about TCM but I'm already

concerned about reading a bunch of book that just talk about the same

things without ever going beyond the casual introductions to aspects such

as five-phase theory or functions of the organs to give indication of the

direction one could go if they are interested in learning more but aren't

ready to commit to the point of seeking aprenticeships with remote taoist

adepts (or so it seems the options are).  Is this why you didn't like

"Between Heaven and Earth"? The "shoehorning" of western pop psychology

onto a system that while it may have psychological implications shouldn't

be assumed to be just that?



As far as other books go, what about Ted Kaptchuk's "Chinese Medicine, The

Web that has no Weaver", Daniel Reid's "Handbook of Chinese Medicine", and

my latest purchase, Peter Holmes' "The Energetics of Western Herbs"?  I

regularly catch myself drooling on Bensky and Gamble's "Materia Medica"

(suppose not so noble as salivating?) but I'm not sure if it's appropriate

for a beginner whose only experience in TCM is following formulass for

menstral balancing and tossing herbs together for tonic soups.  At what

point in TCM and any healing paradigm (I used the word!) does one make the

leap from fooling around as a hobby to responsible attempts to help others

heal?



The obvious answer is when the knowlege base is built up to the point that

healing/results occur because of an intentional calculated (not catty)

strategy of herbal treatment applied by the healer.  But how do you move

to this point except through classes or under direct tutilege of a

practicing herbalist?  When are guinea pigs ethical?



One final word:  is there *any* truth to what I was told by a herbalist in

Korea: he was afraid to give me a herbal combination for anything other

than a basic tonic (or are there really such things?) because he thought

that maybe western people's bodies were so different as to be inaccesible

to TCM as practiced in Korea.  Or maybe just making the therepy more error

prone.  Reminds me of a comment from a Taiwanese woman in Chinatown when I

was buying bags full of herbs "Oh I didn't know they worked on you people

too!"  Had to laugh!



Thank's for reading this.  I'm sorry it's so long.



Anna

amblake@u.washington.edu





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: TCM Books

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:32:02 GMT

--------

> Yes, I certainly know what you're talking about when herbal book lust

> enters your heart.  I am a beginner in reading about TCM but I'm already

> concerned about reading a bunch of books that just talk about the same

> things without ever going beyond the casual introductions to aspects [...]



Yes, most of the lay introductory material is utterly redundant (and WRONG,

in way too many cases.



> Is this why you didn't like

> "Between Heaven and Earth"? The "shoehorning" of western pop psychology

> onto a system [...]



A big part of it. Those people are also at the forefront of the attempt to

conflate a misconception of Qi and spirit with the precepts of the New Age

movement.



> As far as other books go, what about Ted Kaptchuk's "Chinese Medicine, The

> Web that has no Weaver",



An excellent book, if dry.



>Daniel Reid's "Handbook of Chinese Medicine",



Not a bad book, but I'm not excited about it either.



>and

> my latest purchase, Peter Holmes' "The Energetics of Western Herbs"?



An interesting reference, but with a real tendency to be misleading.



>I

> regularly catch myself drooling on Bensky and Gamble's "Materia Medica"

> (suppose not so noble as salivating?) but I'm not sure if it's appropriate

> for a beginner whose only experience in TCM is following formulass for

> menstral balancing and tossing herbs together for tonic soups.



Please don't use that word 'tonic' in that way. Tonic means to tonify, that

is to increase tone. The Chinese words Bu and Jian, which are sometimes

mistranslated 'tonify,' really mean supplement and strengthen (respectively).

We have one of the most repugnant and conscienceless entrepreneurs on the

planet to thank for popularizing this usage to line his pockets: Ron

Teeguarden.



Bensky & Gamble is a mandatory text, though Maciocia's new herb book is a

possible (if more expensive) substitute. You can learn an awful lot about

Chinese healing from these formularies. Another option is the book Chinese

Herbology, by Subuti Dharmananda (ITM, Seattle?). It is in about the same

price range. ITM puts out many useful texts, though they push their own

products, and some of their information is slanted. Another sometimes good

publisher is Blue Poppy, in Boulder. Bob Flaws, the owner, is however a

cultural conservative, so bear that in mind when reading his restrictions and

views on lifestyle.



>At what

> point in TCM and any healing paradigm (I used the word!) does one make the

> leap from fooling around as a hobby to responsible attempts to help others

> heal?



And the point that you get sick of seeing people being mislead in their

suffering to more suffering. At the point where you KNOW what needs doing.



> But how do you move

> to this point except through classes or under direct tutilege of a

> practicing herbalist?  When are guinea pigs ethical?



People are already guinea pigs. These herbal formulas are predominately safe,

if you have a clue about what you are doing. You can use them 'right out of

the box'...in my experience they rarely need modification. I see so many

BASIC cases it isn't funny.



> One final word:  is there *any* truth to what I was told by a herbalist in

> Korea: he was afraid to give me a herbal combination for anything other

> than a basic tonic (or are there really such things?) because he thought

> that maybe western people's bodies were so different as to be inaccesible

> to TCM as practiced in Korea.



That is utter nonsense. The use of a Boosting formula is itself suspect, in

that case. While people with good lifestyles and balanced health MAY use

herbs to enhance their wellbeing, this is tricky business. The ill need

treatment the same, East or West, as always.



Korean practice is a historically received practice (meaning that it may

uphold restrictions strictly, rather than flexibly). It differs from Chinese

healing in many ways, and the practice of acupuncture is much larger than

herbalism in that state, to my knowledge.



The term 'TCM' does NOT apply to what I practice, btw.



>Or maybe just making the therepy more error

> prone.



No.



>Reminds me of a comment from a Taiwanese woman in Chinatown when I

> was buying bags full of herbs "Oh I didn't know they worked on you people

> too!"  Had to laugh!



Yeah. This is just naivete. These formulas are designed to work on PEOPLE.

One of the most important thing you can do in studying traditions is to note,

frequently, that this is your HUMAN inheritance. Though we say 'the Chinese,'

in fact, they are just as human, just as much 'us,' as we are. I am proud of

MY Chinese heritage, and I am a Colombian/Italian/American!



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Heart problem

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:31:12 GMT

--------

Can the woman with the musician son who has the heart problem repost the

information? I appear to have deleted the post.



Sorry for the bandwidth.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Elecampane root extract

From: Mike Sheffield <71670.1406@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:32 EST

--------

I recently posted a rather long (sorry) message regarding a friend's need for

information on Elecampane root extract, which he hopes to use to alleviate

respiratory congestion due to allergies.  He's been using Seldane (prescription

antihistimine), but wants to find an entirely herbal alternative.  Although I've

searched the books that are available to me, I've found very little.  (Having

just moved to a tiny town after 20 years in Miami and 18 in Tampa, this is going

to be a continuing problem, I fear.)  Perhaps a different herb--say, Echinacea--

would be a better choice for long-term, daily use?  Other suggestions?  Also, my

friend must take a small, daily dose of Synthroid (0.05 mg), a thyroid-boosting

chemical, for his hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid), so of course,

interactions and contraindications are of special interest--particularly in

regard to the liver.



 Thank you so much for any information you may be able to provide.



 Dawn            71670.1406@compuserve.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Elecampane root extract

From: "Sandow, Kay" <KSANDOW@HQ.ROW.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:58:00 -0500

--------

Echinacea shouldn't be used daily for long term therapy.



As always try and remove the item causing allergy.



I've used fenugreek to remove congestion (in acute conditions) from the

lungs.  Has anybody used it a s a preventative therapy.



How about pycnogenol.  I've pulled some information here and there about its

use in allergy and asthma as a preventive therapy.



Kay

ksandow@hq.row.com

 ----------

From: Medicinal and Aromatic Plants discussion list

To: HERB

Subject: Elecampane root extract

Date: Wednesday, January 29, 1997 11:31AM



I recently posted a rather long (sorry) message regarding a friend's need

for

information on Elecampane root extract, which he hopes to use to alleviate

respiratory congestion due to allergies.  He's been using Seldane

(prescription

antihistimine), but wants to find an entirely herbal alternative.  Although

I've

searched the books that are available to me, I've found very little.

 (Having

just moved to a tiny town after 20 years in Miami and 18 in Tampa, this is

going

to be a continuing problem, I fear.)  Perhaps a different herb--say,

Echinacea--

would be a better choice for long-term, daily use?  Other suggestions?

 Also,

my

friend must take a small, daily dose of Synthroid (0.05 mg), a

thyroid-boosting

chemical, for his hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid), so of course,

interactions and contraindications are of special interest--particularly in

regard to the liver.



 Thank you so much for any information you may be able to provide.



 Dawn            71670.1406@compuserve.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Rosacea--need help, please

From: Mike Sheffield <71670.1406@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:37 EST

--------

Hi, friends.   I've just been diagnosed with Rosacea, a progressive disorder of

the skin (usually confined to the face) which often manifests itself, initially,

with a generalized and increasingly severe reddening of the face.  That's the

early stage in which I find myself.  (As it progresses it can worsen, if

untreated, resulting is what is misnamed, "adult acne."  It's really not acne at

all, from what little I've been able to learn about it.)  Anyway, Rosacea often

strikes people who are fair (who may be more likely to blush and flush

often--the tiny capillaries close to the skin begin to rupture) and, ironically

enough, who have otherwise healthy, great skin.  It was made for me, it

seems--and for W. C. Fields, too.  Despite rumors to the contrary, his facial

redness and swollen nose were due to Rosacea.  (For some reason, men are almost

always the victims of the swollen nose aspect of the condition, which rarely

affects women.)  Anyway,   I have a cream I'm supposed to use but if there's an

herbal alternative, I'd like to find it OR a system of herbal augmentation which

will just generally help the condition skin.  (Information on herbal soaps and

appropriate cosmetics would be appreciated, too.  Everything, even my shampoo,

must be mild, non-astringent, and alcohol-free, apparently.)   Any general

information on Rosacea would be appreciated, too, and I'd particularly like to

hear from others who might have experience coping with it.  I live in a very

small town and finding information and others with whom to share it can be a

challenge.



Thanks very much for your interest and help.  Dawn   71670.1406@compuserve.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: depression

From: Anansi <Anansi@NYO.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:33:49 -0500

--------

 E-Mail:

            6lmp@qlink.queensu.ca

 Date/Time:

            1/18/97 3:24 PM

 Subject:

            depression



Body:





       A friend of mine is suffering from manic depression. She has tried to

kill herself

       and I was wondering if there were any vitamins, herbs or anything that

would

       help her. Please e-mail me if you know of any. Thank you.





--





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: depression

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:33:26 -0800

--------

At 03:33 PM 1/28/97 -0500, Anansi <Anansi@NYO.COM> wrote:

> E-Mail:

>            6lmp@qlink.queensu.ca

> Date/Time:

>            1/18/97 3:24 PM

> Subject:

>            depression

>

>Body:

>

>

>       A friend of mine is suffering from manic depression. She has tried to

>kill herself

>       and I was wondering if there were any vitamins, herbs or anything that

>would

>       help her. Please e-mail me if you know of any. Thank you.

>

>

Hello Anansi,



Manic depressive illness is a mental disorder in which a disturbance of mood

is the major symptom.  This disturbance may consist of depression  of of

mania (unipolar) or of a swing between the two states (bipolar.)  A number

of physical illnesses (especially brain disorders), certain drugs, and a

clear inherited tendency are all established factors.  Research has located

at least one of the defective genes responsible on chromosome 11.

Overactivity seems due largely to extra amounts of the neurochemical

dopamine in parts of the brain; this may simply represent a manic reaction

to an underlying depression caused by loss or grief.  Allopathic medicine

would suggest antidepressant drugs and/or ECT (electroconvulsive therapy)

and cognitive-behavioral therapy.



St. John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum) has been historically used as a nerve

tonic, and is now used widely as a mild to moderate antidepressant.  This

action appears to be based on the ability of hypericin and other components

of St. Johns Wort to inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO) typoes A and B. (See

previous discussions about MAO.)  As a result of this inhibition, the level

within the brain increases sof certain nerve impulse transmitters - those

that maintain normal mood and emotional stability.  Extract of St. Johns

Wort have been tested in various animal models designed to study its

antidepressant effects.   And, there are more than 26 double blind studies

with standardized St. Johns Wort extract (0.3% nypericin).  The results from

these studies indicate that St. Johns Wort extract at a dosage of 300

milligrams three times daily is as effective in relieving symptoms of

depression as standard antidepressants, but is much better tolerated with

fewer side effects.



Your friend would do well to also seek any underlying issues of loss or

grief and to review dietary habits.



Be well,





Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: depression

From: Colleen Evans <Colleen.Evans@MAIL.WDN.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:42:18 +0200

--------

Hi Marcia,



Thanks for all of your valuable information.



My friend is seeing a therapist to talk over her "very difficult" past, that

has lead her into a very unsettled adulthood.



She is taking a prescription for her depression, I could find out exactly

what it is if necessary; could she take the St. John's Wort along with her

prescribed medicine or would it hurt her?  She REALLY wants to be off of

taking a "drug" daily, but without this medicine she has symptoms of

depression and when the stresses get too much...she has panic attacks.

She's not diagnosed as a manic depressive, just a girl that's had WAY TOO

MUCH INFLICTED STRESS & UPSET in her early life and it's caught up with her

as an adult.  She's just in a regular depression (if there is such a thing

as "regular" depression).



I told her about the St. John's Wort extract and she's really interested,

but wants to know if she could start it while still on her prescribed

medicine.  The medicine she's on now if she were to go off of it, she'd have

to step down the dosage and then go off.  She just couldn't STOP taking it.



Any comments please about using the herb with her medicine?  Her doctor

isn't knowledgeable about herbs and their uses, so she won't be able to

consult with the doctor about using both.  Let me know if you need to know

exactly what drug she's using.  I can tell you that she had to call a

pharmacist once because some cold medicine she needed to take said "don't

use if taking an MAO"; the pharmacist said that her medicine WAS NOT an MAO

and to go ahead and take the cold medicine (hope that helps).



Thanks for your comments/suggestions.  She's a REALLY sweet girl and I'd

really like to help her...and she'd REALLY appreciate it too.



Regards to all my herb buddies :>

Colleen







 The results from

>these studies indicate that St. Johns Wort extract at a dosage of 300

>milligrams three times daily is as effective in relieving symptoms of

>depression as standard antidepressants, but is much better tolerated with

>fewer side effects.

>

>Your friend would do well to also seek any underlying issues of loss or

>grief and to review dietary habits.

>

>Be well,

>

>

>Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

>Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

>                                  Herbal Indulgence

>                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

>

>







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: depression

From: Lynn Rausch <lrausc19@EMAIL8.STARNETINC.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 04:24:22 GMT

--------

Hello everyone,



  I also have panic attacks and am a depressed person. I'm taking

Zoloft and Klonopin. I have stopped seeing my doctor for the medicine.

I have decreased myself 50mg of zoloft. I'm now taking 100mg of zoloft.

Also still 1.0mg Klonopin.

  My doctor did talk to me a little bit about St. Johns Wort. He acted

as if that would be something to try. So that's what I'm going to do.

I had ordered some St.Johns Wort, along with some KavaKava (to take

before bedtime). The St. Johns Wort will replace the Zoloft. I hope

this works for me as will as your friend. I think she should give it

a try. But I do think she should get off the medicine first. I wish

her well in trying the herbs instead of medicine.





Lynn





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: depression

From: Marcia Elston <samara@WINGEDSEED.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:33:52 -0800

--------

At 08:42 PM 1/29/97 +0200, you wrote:

>Hi Marcia,

>

>Thanks for all of your valuable information.

>

>

>I told her about the St. John's Wort extract and she's really interested,

>but wants to know if she could start it while still on her prescribed

>medicine.  The medicine she's on now if she were to go off of it, she'd have

>to step down the dosage and then go off.  She just couldn't STOP taking it.

>

>Any comments please about using the herb with her medicine?  Her doctor

>isn't knowledgeable about herbs and their uses, so she won't be able to

>consult with the doctor about using both.  Let me know if you need to know

>exactly what drug she's using.  I can tell you that she had to call a

>pharmacist once because some cold medicine she needed to take said "don't

>use if taking an MAO"; the pharmacist said that her medicine WAS NOT an MAO

>and to go ahead and take the cold medicine (hope that helps).

>



St. Johns Wort IS a MAO inhibitor, so I would make sure that the drug she is

taking is not contraindicated.  Also, St. Johns Wort is slow to act....it

may take 30 days or more for her to see results.  I, personally, would not

take herbs and prescription medication for the same symptom at the same

time.  Is it Buspar or Prozac?  If she is serious about trying herbal

remedies, she definitely should follow her doctor's recommendation of

stepping down the dosage instead of stopping cold turkey.  My 80 year old

mother (w/Alzheimers) has been successfully using St. Johns Wort for her

depression for about 60 days now.  It took a very long time to see good

results with her, but she is gradually adapting and having less depression.

Her doctor told me that stopping Buspar without stepping down could cause

death in older people.  Certainly not something that I, in good

consciousness, would give to an elderly person with failing cognitive powers.



Be well,





Marcia Elston     I     Samara Botane     |     Seattle, WA

Manufacturers of Aromatherapy and Herbal products

                                  Herbal Indulgence

                 http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: depression

From: Adele Lewis <lewisar@WHITMAN.EDU>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:38:29 -0800

--------

I know that St. John's Wort infusion made from fresh flowers is supposed

to help depression.  My question for the list is: does anyone know that

recommended dosage?

Thanks,

Adele



On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Anansi wrote:



>  E-Mail:

>             6lmp@qlink.queensu.ca

>  Date/Time:

>             1/18/97 3:24 PM

>  Subject:

>             depression

>

> Body:

>

>

>        A friend of mine is suffering from manic depression. She has tried to

> kill herself

>        and I was wondering if there were any vitamins, herbs or anything that

> would

>        help her. Please e-mail me if you know of any. Thank you.

>

>

> --

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Melatonin

From: "JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D." <JoeZ6@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:45:00 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-24 22:38:08 EST, you write:



<<  The Longevity list often discuss this along with other life

 extending products and procedures.  If you would like the address

 feel free to post to me directly for it. >>

Please send me address (E-mail I hope)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Echinicea agustifolia and false salt taste

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:20:31 EST

--------

I recently purchased an alcohol tincture of Echinicea agustifolia from

Ecclectic Institute instead of my usual mixed echinicea glycerite

compound.  Whenever I take it, I get intense false sensations of

saltiness on my tongue which do not wash away with water.  The tincture

is not salty to the taste, but the sensation of saltiness that follows it

is VERY strong.  This even happens when I take it diluted in water.



I've heard about "tongue tingling" with E. agust., but not a false salt

taste.  Does anyone know what in the herb causes it?  Is it stronger in

an alcohol tincture?

(My son gets the same reaction.)



Also, does anyone know how Echinicea pallida compares to Echinicea

agustifolia and Echinicea purpurea?  And where agustifolia plants can be

obtained?



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Echinicea agustifolia and false salt taste

From: Johnny or Susan Battle <sbattle@AGORA.RDROP.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 17:14:53 -0800

--------

Karen asked,

>

> Also, does anyone know how Echinicea pallida compares to Echinicea

> agustifolia and Echinicea purpurea?



I visited Trout Lake Farms in Trout Lake, WA, this autumn, and asked their

research chemist this exact question. His opinion was that their Echinacea

purpurea was the best, the strongest in many constituents. He also said not

to be concerned, though, in which echinacea you use. The difference is

usually not that much.

This guy, Rudy, was employed to test the plants, choose the hardiest, and

use those seeds for the next crops, etc. Not hybridizing the plants, just

human picked survival of the fittest. He's done this in many countries.

I think Trout Lake Farms is the biggest organic herb grower in the country.

I do not work for them, nor do I sell their product. But I think they

produce a wonderful product. Even their shipping guy loved his job, and

wanted to talk about every aspect. A delightful feeling to the place.

Susan





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Echinicea agustifolia and false salt taste

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:15:06 EST

--------

I'm suprised that the Trout Lake Farms research chemist says E. purpurea

is the best (although it might be the most cost effective considering the

differential in Frontier's wholesale prices.)  I've always read that E.

augustifolia was stronger medicine, but have read nothing about E.

pallida (which is priced close to E. augustifolia.)



Does anyone know about the intense false salt taste that follows the

tingle of E. augustifolia tincture?



And does anyone know who sells E. augustifolia plants?



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 17:14:53 -0800 Johnny or Susan Battle

<sbattle@AGORA.RDROP.COM> writes:

>Karen asked,

>>

>> Also, does anyone know how Echinicea pallida compares to Echinicea

>> agustifolia and Echinicea purpurea?

>

>I visited Trout Lake Farms in Trout Lake, WA, this autumn, and asked

their

>research chemist this exact question. His opinion was that their

Echinacea

>purpurea was the best, the strongest in many constituents. He also said

not

>to be concerned, though, in which echinacea you use. The difference is

>usually not that much.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MAO-inhibitors and St. Johnswort

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:20:31 EST

--------

Howie-



You wrote:

"One last point. St John's Wort is a MAO inhibitor, but not enough to

cause any problems, nor enough of an MAOI to explain it's

anti-depressive effects. Let me say this one more time ....

Hypericum's effect is NOT due to MAO inhibition, although the plant

does show a certain amount of MAOI activity, it is very small and

comparable to certain MAOI foods that most of us eat eat (like brie

cheese)."



I noticed an itchy rash on my arms when I was taking St. Johnswort

tincture, in the dead of winter, without sun exposure.  Would the MAOI

affect the skin like that?



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MAO-inhibitors and St. Johnswort

From: Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:08:43 +0000

--------

> From:          Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

> Subject:       Re: MAO-inhibitors and St. Johnswort



> I noticed an itchy rash on my arms when I was taking St. Johnswort

> tincture, in the dead of winter, without sun exposure.  Would the MAOI

> affect the skin like that?

>



Are you sure that the rash was photosensitvity and not an allergic

reaction to, let's say, a new laundry soap?



How much SJW were you taking, and for how long? If it is the cause of

the photosensitivity, dead of winter sunlight could still cause the

reaction. And you should decrease your dosage or discontinue use.



Photosensitivity from SJW does not imply that it is an MAO

inhibition causing it. There are many other substances that cause

photosensitivity that are not MAOIs. I don't believe that

photosensitivity in SJW is caused by an MAOI reaction, especially if

the MAOI effects are so mild you can eat foods without any problems

that would killl you if you took a chemical antidepressant MAOI.









See my other recent post for more thoughts about SJW

photosensitivity.

Howie Brounstein



howieb@teleport.com

http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html



The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: MAO-inhibitors and St. Johnswort

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:15:06 EST

--------

Actually I don't attribute the skin rash to photosensitivity.  I had

minimal exposure to light.  I was thinking of your client's "poison oak"

reaction to a MAOI.    It could have been a reaction to mixing herbs as

well- I was taking ashwaganda and a Chinese modular phlegm clearing

formula.  But when I stopped the St. J. the rash disappeared.



I know that some people get contact dermatitis when picking the St. J.  I

have theorized, but don't know, that some of the constituents can cause

rashes in sensitive individuals.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





On Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:08:43 +0000 Howie Brounstein <howieb@TELEPORT.COM>

writes:

>> From:          Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

>> Subject:       Re: MAO-inhibitors and St. Johnswort

>

>> I noticed an itchy rash on my arms when I was taking St. Johnswort

>> tincture, in the dead of winter, without sun exposure.  Would the

>MAOI

>> affect the skin like that?

>>

>

>Are you sure that the rash was photosensitvity and not an allergic

>reaction to, let's say, a new laundry soap?

>

>How much SJW were you taking, and for how long? If it is the cause of

>the photosensitivity, dead of winter sunlight could still cause the

>reaction. And you should decrease your dosage or discontinue use.

>

>Photosensitivity from SJW does not imply that it is an MAO

>inhibition causing it. There are many other substances that cause

>photosensitivity that are not MAOIs. I don't believe that

>photosensitivity in SJW is caused by an MAOI reaction, especially if

>the MAOI effects are so mild you can eat foods without any problems

>that would killl you if you took a chemical antidepressant MAOI.

>

>

>

>

>See my other recent post for more thoughts about SJW

>photosensitivity.

>Howie Brounstein

>

>howieb@teleport.com

>http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/howie.html

>

>The difference between poison and medicine is dosage.

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Help

From: Rosemary Hayward <Roses9652@AOL.COM>

Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:36:15 -0500

--------

Julie:  I just joined this list, too..but I would like to know more about

your liver problems.  I have cervical arthritis, but have had problems in my

side, similar to gall bladder problems, but my g. bladder was removed years

ago...I have suspected liver problems.  My grandmother died in the early

sixties of liver cancer.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Feverfew

From: "Heather St. Giles" <Heather@BAYSYSCG.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:50:07 -0800

--------

I would like to know more about growing and/or preparing Feverfew.

Comments, anyone?

Thanks in Advance

Heather





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Feverfew

From: John Hargrove <hhbotan@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 01:08:31 -0500

--------

>I would like to know more about growing and/or preparing Feverfew.

>Comments, anyone?

>Thanks in Advance

>Heather



Hi Heather,

Feverfew (C. parthenium, Matricaria parthenium, or Tanacetum parthenium

...depends on who you ask) grows extremely in any sunny spot just as long

as the soil is well drained.  If you are starting from seed, you may sow at

anytime inside and pot on for transplanting later.  Seeds generally

germinate in about a week, unless you have a "black-thumb."  They also cut

very well from basal stem-cuttings placed in a frame.   Be careful as the

where you place in the garden, the little devils self sow like mad!

As far as preparing, most people will recommend that you eat the leaf fresh

(once a day to help prevent migraines).  But, the leaf is very bitter and

can cause mouth ulcers, a common side-effect, in most people.  If this does

happen, try lightly sauteing in butter.  If you are using any type of

blood-thinner, avoid using this plant.  It will affect clotting rates.

Hope this helped!



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.

                                        - Frank Lloyd Wright

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~John & Lea Ann Hargrove  -  H&H Botanicals  -

http://www.tir.com/~hhbotan/





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Does anyone have this 800 #?

From: Colleen Evans <Colleen.Evans@MAIL.WDN.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:49:56 +0200

--------

Hi everyone!



I'm trying to find out information about Frontier Herb Cooperative.  Does

anyone have their toll-free 800 #?  I'd appreciate if you would send e-mail

it to me at Colleen.Evans@mail.wdn.com



Thank you.

Colleen



P.S. Are any of you aware of any other companies that offer really good

prices on herbs through mail order.  Any information you can share is

appreciated.







==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Does anyone have this 800 #?

From: "JOSEPH ZACKER, Ph.D." <JoeZ6@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:58:10 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-29 13:53:28 EST, you write:



<<

 I'm trying to find out information about Frontier Herb Cooperative.  Does

 anyone have their toll-free 800 #? >>

800-669-3275





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Hoxey's Herbs

From: Graham White <hendongreen@GN.APC.ORG>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:57:53 GMT

--------

Thanks to all (particularly Sharon - thanks again!) who sent me information

on Hoxey's herbs and stingilla root.  The following is what went in my

assignment. I would appreciate any comments :-)



e. Hoxey's Herbs - the origin of this formula is surrounded by myth, however

it is the

oldest US alternative therapy for cancer, and is still used at the

Bio-Medical Center in Mexico although banned in the USA. The internal

formula is made up of various herbs

added to a base preparation of potassium iodide and cascara (Rhamnus purshiana

bark). Many of these have been shown to have anticancer and immunostimulating

effects (Ward, 1988). The usual herbs are :

     pokeweed root - Phytolacca americana. Has several effects on the immune

system including stimulation of the production of two cytokines,

interleukin1 and

tumour necrosis factor (Bodger et al, 1979). Constituents include

triterpenoid saponins,

alkaloids (betalain-type), resins, phytolaccic acid and lectins (pokeweed

mitogen

factor) (Hoffmann, 1990, p.224, and Newall et al., 1996, p.215). Opinions

vary on

toxicity.

     burdock root - Lappa, Articum lappa. Antitumour activity has been reported

(Newall et al., 1996, p. 52). Also desmutogenic properties. Wide range of

constituents

especially a bitter glycoside arctiin (see Fig. 2).

     barberry - berberis, Oregon grape, Berberis vulgaris. The major alkaloid is

berberine (see Fig. 2) which has antiseptic, antipyretic and immunostimmulatory

properties (Willard, 1991, pp. 24-29).

     buckthorn root - Rhamnus cathartica. Contains the anthraquinone glycosides

(glucofrangulin, chrysophanol) equivalent to Cascara but with higher emodin

(Willard,

1991, p. 54) which has been shown to have antileukaemia activity.

     stillingia root - Queen's delight, Stillingia sylvatica. Constituents

are volatile oil, acrid resin, fixed oil, tannin. Actions are alterative,

blood purifier (Hoffmann, 1990, p. 226).

     prickly ash - Zanthoxylum americanum and Zanthoxylum clava-herculis.

Constituents include coumarins, alkaloids, principally chelerythrine (see

Figure 2),

herculin in Zanthoxylum clava-herculis. Actions alterative. traditionally

used for cancer.

     red clover - Trifolium pratense. Constituents are phenolic glycosides,

flavonoids,

coumarins, cyanogenic glycosides. It has alterative and anti-inflammatory

actions.

Reputed anti-tumour activity (Bartram, 1995, p. 366-367).

     licorice - Glycyrrhizia glabra. Possesses a wide range of active

components and

therapeutic activities.



f. Essiac - Named after its originator Renee Caisse, a Canadian nurse who

developed

the formula in the 1920s. Although a Canadian government report in 1982

concluded,

"No evidence exists to support the claims that Essiac is an effective

treatment for

cancer" the formula is in widespread use throughout North America. The original

formula consists of:

     sheep sorrel - Rumex acetosella. Contains carotenoids and emodin. Used as

a traditional remedy by the Algonquin Ojibwa indians.

     burdock - see above.

     slippery elm inner bark - Ulmus fulva. Contains mucilage.

     rhubarb - Turkey rhubarb, Rheum palmatum. two major groups of active

ingredients, glycosides (anthroquinones and derivatives) and tannins. The

extract of

rhubarb root has been shown to have antitumour properties (Willard, 1991,

pp. 290-

292).









Graham White

------------



hendongreen@gn.apc.org

gw035@mdx.ac.uk





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: (T)CM Books & other things

From: Robert Thiel <gavilan@NBNET.NB.CA>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:10:09 -0400

--------

The bookstores in this part of Canada are rather limited (unless one likes

Danielle Steele), but I did see a book yesterday on Chinese Healing. It

costs $21 (Canadian) and I don't want to buy it till I find out if it's a

worthwhile investment. Thus if someone could let me know if _The Chinese

Way to Healing: Many Paths to Wholeness_, by Misha R. Cohen, OMD,L.Ac, is a

good book to buy, I'd appreciate it.



I also saw an even more expensive book on 'Reiki'. I know it's some type of

'laying on of hands'. I don't know, however, if it's a worthy therapy or

just another scam. Does anyone have any knowledge about it?  (Yes, I know

it's not about herbs, but the Chinese Healing book does include that

subject.)



And finally I think I recall that Paul made some rather disparaging remarks

about Ramana Maharshi. If we accept the possibility that he was an

'enlightened' being, I can't see why he couldn't die from cancer of the

throat. He was in his 70's and no doubt had different considerations about

life and death than we do. From what should these 'enlightened' humans die?



Cheers,



  *+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*



    -+-  Bob Thiel  -+-

    Moncton, NB, Canada

    gavilan@nbnet.nb.ca

Translator: Spanish to English





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: (T)CM Books & other things

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:34:03 GMT

--------

> The bookstores in this part of Canada are rather limited (unless one likes

> Danielle Steele), but I did see a book yesterday on Chinese Healing. It

> costs $21 (Canadian) and I don't want to buy it till I find out if it's a

> worthwhile investment. Thus if someone could let me know if _The Chinese

> Way to Healing: Many Paths to Wholeness_, by Misha R. Cohen, OMD,L.Ac, is a

> good book to buy, I'd appreciate it.



No, you can spend that money better mail ordering Kaptchuk's book.



> And finally I think I recall that Paul made some rather disparaging remarks

> about Ramana Maharshi.



You misread. I have great respect for the Maharshi. I have seen darshan film

of him (undeniably powerful) and own most of his books. I was just countering

the idea that realization makes you invulnerable to illness...ESPECIALLY

'lay' realization mediated by some sort of temporary mind trick.



>If we accept the possibility that he was an

> 'enlightened' being, I can't see why he couldn't die from cancer of the

> throat. He was in his 70's and no doubt had different considerations about

> life and death than we do. From what should these 'enlightened' humans die?



Well, I consider that a misunderstanding of the nature of such beings (I

consider them different from birth, not 'just human' like the rest of us),

but Maharshi essentially died long before he had disciples and devotees, so

the issue isn't as you're reacting to.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: (T)CM Books & other things

From: Ben Muadib <muadib@HIGHER-IDEAL.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:39:23 -0500

--------

In <843050974.2846191@lamg.com>, on 01/30/97 at 09:34 AM,

   Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM> said:



>You misread. I have great respect for the Maharshi. I have seen darshan

>film of him (undeniably powerful) and own most of his books. I was just

>countering the idea that realization makes you invulnerable to

>illness...ESPECIALLY 'lay' realization mediated by some sort of temporary

>mind trick.



I conclude you are wrong about this. One who is truly enlightened is

completely unconcerned about the physical self. The lack of concern allows

the master to toss about disease like so many specks of dust. I have seen

this occur so many times. The Maharishi was a capable fellow, but not

truly awakened. True awakening brings the ability to assume complete

causation over the material realm including something as meaningless as

throat cancer. Complete physical invulnerability occurs, when the master

can create and destroy the physical body at will.



As to the idea about mind tricks, the awakened one has no mind, only pure

knowing, pure intent, pure focus.





>Well, I consider that a misunderstanding of the nature of such beings (I

>consider them different from birth, not 'just human' like the rest of

>us), but Maharshi essentially died long before he had disciples and

>devotees, so the issue isn't as you're reacting to.



A truly awakened one is never truly born. One just assumes the body when

one chooses, and drops one when one is in the mood.



Ben Muadib





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: (T)CM Books & other things

From: Robert Thiel <gavilan@NBNET.NB.CA>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:41:24 -0400

--------

>this occur so many times. The Maharishi was a capable fellow, but not

>truly awakened. True awakening brings the ability to assume complete



I think you're mixing up two different persons: Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

is NOT the giggling person seen on TV called Maharishi.



>  If you ever reach total enlightenment while you're drinking a

>>>>     beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose.



And I'm not sure what the author (Mr. Hoenigsberg) of the above is

attempting to tell us.





  *+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*



    -+-  Bob Thiel  -+-

    Moncton, NB, Canada

    gavilan@nbnet.nb.ca

Translator: Spanish to English





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: (T)CM Books & other things

From: Hoenigsberg <honeymtn@ADRIFT.HARBORNET.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:06:19 -0900

--------

  If you ever reach total enlightenment while you're drinking a

>>>     beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose.

>>>==========

>>>     As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red

>>>     again, I sat there thinking about life.  Was it nothing more than

>>>     a bunch of honking and yelling?  Sometimes it seemed that way.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: HEART PROBLEM

From: Denise Melanson <dmmelans@UNITY.NCSU.EDU>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:54:32 -0500

--------

This is the firs time I have written to this listing so i hope I get it

right.



        My father (46 yr white, 6'2" 200 lb), had a minor heart attack

two weeks ago thursday.  6 mo. ago his cholesterol was 280, now it is

178, I don't know the ratio of LDL to HDL. He was brought into the

hospital on Friday AM, and over the weekend experienced a series of

spells which were alleviated by nitroglycerine.  On Monday AM his doctors

(THE SANGER CLINIC at CMC), reccommended an angioplasty and 2 stints. SO

he went in and had two arteries (95% and 85% clogged) performed on. That

night he had another minor heart attack, and the angiogram showed a

complete blockage in one of the stints. SO Tuesday am they took him in

for a double bypass (to clear the 85% and another 60% artery, the 95% was

fine with the stint). He came through fine, and was only in ICU for 27

hours. Infact he was sitting up and eating a little bit before he went to

a private room. However, when he was moved to a private room they started

him on heart medicine to control fibrulations, and they tried to feed him

PEPPER STEAK for lunch, (the smell made hime nausious) and he started

vomiting profusely. SO they put him on anti-nausea, and darvaset. They

also gave him a stool softener, and something to control his

cholesterolol. I feel like all of this medicine is causing more problems,

but I am not an MD, (only a PhD candidate). I am writing to ask diet

advise and/or herbal remedies or preventatives. He has no problems with

blood pressure, but HE LOVES PIZZA, so keeping him off fat is hard. In

addition, he is the kind of person who picks every little onion, pepper

or plant material out of food before he eats it.



Any suggestions.



Thank you

Denise





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Echinacea agustifolia and false salt taste

From: Cindy Lee <cindylee@MINDSPRING.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 17:13:53 -0500

--------

At 05:20 PM 1/28/97 EST, Karen Vaughan wrote:

>I've heard about "tongue tingling" with E. agust.,



Thank-you for posting this. I just tried E. Agust instead of the purpurea

and found my tongue tingles.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ><>  <><

       |_

      \__/



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Smiles,

     Cindy Lee

       Zone 7/8

cindylee@mindspring.com

    WEB yourself @

    ArachniDesigns

http://www.mindspring.com/~sinbrad/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  A rose by any other name would likely be

   "deadly thorn-bearing assault vegetation."

            (Robert Bullock)





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Echinacea agustifolia and false salt taste

From: Johnny or Susan Battle <sbattle@AGORA.RDROP.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 17:17:43 -0800

--------

>

> Thank-you for posting this. I just tried E. Agust instead of the purpurea

> and found my tongue tingles.



Your tongue should tingle when you put any good echinacea on it, purpurea,

agustofolia, pallida...

Susan





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Non-PMS symptoms

From: Celeste <ckubasta@PIONEER.STATE.ND.US>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 14:39:57 -0800

--------

This may be weird but I had the Norplant for 4 years and have taken the

Depro-Vera shot for over a year now and consequently have only had a

period once in the past 5 years.  My last shot was about 5 months ago

and their usefulness is supposed to be about 90 days.  I've been having

pre-menstraul symptoms (enlarged breasts, cravings, crabbiness) for

about a week and anticipate it coming soon.  Is there any I can do to

get it faster?  Would a tea made from herbs that pregnant women are

supposed to avoid help?  I am not pregnant, do not plan on getting

pregnant, and haven't had any opportunity to anyhow so taking the herbs

is not a problem.  I'm almost 40 and haven't recognized any mid-life

signs (other than grey hair).  TIA - Celeste





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Heart beats to fast

From: Lynn Rausch <lrausc19@EMAIL8.STARNETINC.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 04:24:25 GMT

--------

Hello everyone,



   I need some advice for my husband. Recently he has had a racing

heart beat that won't stop for hours. So he finally went to the

hospital. They gave him some tests, but they also shot him up

with Adenosine. my husband said that he felt really better and his

racing heart had slowed down the way it should. I have been doing

some web seraching on Adenosine. I'm hoping that someone has some

herbs that may help this problem when it occurs. It doesn't happen

everyday. The doctor claims he's strong as a horse. Yeah right.

    Sometimes I think he gets like a panic attack like I do. But

his is really worse. Are there any vitamins that he may be lacking?

Has anybody else have this problem?



All advise will be welcome.



Thank You,

Lynn





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Heart beats to fast

From: Bruce Mencer <BAMencer@AOL.COM>

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:47:19 -0500

--------

In a message dated 97-01-29 23:32:56 EST, you write:



<<  I need some advice for my husband. Recently he has had a racing

 heart beat that won't stop for hours. So he finally went to the

 hospital. >>



I'm no doctor, but your husbands symptoms sound an awful lot like mitro valve

prolapse, a condition my wife has.  She is told that diet (especially

coffee){Paul will like this} effects it.  Also stress.  If you get any info

on herbal treatment for this I will be very interested as well.  Anyone have

any ideas?  Paul, Anita, Eric, Howie???  Anyone?



Thanks,



Bruce





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Heart beats to fast

From: Lynn Rausch <lrausc19@EMAIL8.STARNETINC.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:26:40 GMT

--------

Hello Bruce,



  Thanks for telling me about your wife. Did the doctor give her any

medicine for this. My husband has been getting this to much lately.

Of course I'm getting very afraid. Maybe it's because I have them

goofy panic attacks and very seldom go outside unless I'm with him.

He is my safe person. But now I feel I have to get strong and hurry

up and get well enough to go to stores, movies, etc. again.



PS. I will let you know about anything I find out.



Thanks,

Lynn





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Heart beats to fast

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:43:19 GMT

--------

> I need some advice for my husband. Recently he has had a racing

> heart beat that won't stop for hours.



This whole category of illness, known in Chinese healing as 'palpitations,'

is usually due to injury to the Heart from lack of rest, lack of nutrition,

use of stimulants (or pharmaceutical drugs), longterm stress, longterm

emotional disharmony, or chronic illness. These cases can be treated with

Chinese healing...see an acupunturist local to you for a syndrome

differentiation and appropriate treatment.



These conditions certainly can be constitutional (inherited) as well...in

such cases minimum dose homeopathy can be very effective.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Heart beats to fast

From: LorinGuild Apothecary <woodwitch@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:02:07 EST

--------

In medical terms this is known as Tachycardia.  The heart races at

approx. twice the normal rate if not more.  (normal rate for adult is

60-80 bpm)

Also known as an anxiety attack.  For the sudden onset a sessation of

what you are doing and lay down with feet propped up.  Breathe into a

paper bag and relax your mind.  Sodalite is a wonderful stone for this

purpose, but this is a herbal list and I won't go into that.



I would suggest a concoction of two parts red clover, one part catnip,

and one part skullcap in '0' capsules.   2 caps twice a day or as needed.



I wish you well...

Hawk`Scry

woodwitch of LorinGuild Apothecary

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3654

-To light a candle is to cast a shadow-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Heart beats to fast

From: Celeste <ckubasta@PIONEER.STATE.ND.US>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:19:14 -0800

--------

Paul Iannone wrote:

>

> > I need some advice for my husband. Recently he has had a racing

> > heart beat that won't stop for hours.

>

> This whole category of illness, known in Chinese healing as 'palpitations,'

> is usually due to injury to the Heart from lack of rest, lack of nutrition,

> use of stimulants (or pharmaceutical drugs), longterm stress, longterm

> emotional disharmony, or chronic illness. These cases can be treated with

> Chinese healing...see an acupunturist local to you for a syndrome

> differentiation and appropriate treatment.

>

> These conditions certainly can be constitutional (inherited) as well...in

> such cases minimum dose homeopathy can be very effective.

>

> Paul

Paul - you often recommend acupuncture connected with Chinese healing.

Where I live all the acupuncturists are chiropractors, who I doubt are

associated with Chinese healing.  How would I know?  What questions

should I be asking them?



Working under the assumption that none of them are qualified, how many

visits would someone have to make to a qualified person, living xxx

thousand miles from here?  A work associate has this problem and I know

this would be her next questions.  TIA - Celeste





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Frontier Herbs

From: Michelle Lewis <JLewis7639@AOL.COM>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:22:24 -0500

--------

I requested a catalog from Frontier several months ago.  The telephone # is

1-800-786-1388.  Address is 3021 78th St., P.O. Box 299, Norway. OA 52318.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: medicinal plants drying

From: Evandro de Castro Melo <ecmelo@MAIL.UFV.BR>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:38:02 -0200

--------

        Hello Everybody:



        Please, I need informations about drying of medicinal plants:

airflow, air temperatures and layout of dryers.



        Many thanks,







-----------------------------------------------------------

Prof. Evandro de Castro Melo

Departamento de Engenharia Agricola

Universidade Federal de Vicosa

36571-000 Vicosa MG              e-mail: ecmelo@mail.ufv.br

BRASIL                            http://www.dea.ufv.br

------------------------------------------------------------





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: medicinal plants drying

From: Henriette Kress <HeK@HETTA.PP.FI>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:25:03 GMT

--------

On Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:38:02 -0200, Evandro de Castro Melo <ecmelo@MAIL.UFV.BR>

wrote to HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR:



>        Please, I need informations about drying of medicinal plants:

>airflow, air temperatures and layout of dryers.



To date I've thrown my take into three different sizes of dehydrators, one my

own (tabletop size), one a cottage industry -size (that's described below) (was

built into a sauna) and one an industry -size dryer (sorry, can't say how they

did that, way to complicated for me) (built into a barn - the size of a grain

dryer).



First some rules of thumb when drying herbs:



Flowers: below 40 deg.C

Leaves:  if action is dependent on essential oils: below 40 deg.C

         else: up to 60 deg.C

Root:    up to 60 deg.C

Fruit:   up to 60 deg.C

Seed:    up to 60 deg.C

(any I left out?)



All roots/fruit/other fleshy parts of herbs you dry need to be cut into strips /

coins / whatever so that the thickest piece is 5 mm or less; this will cut down

on drying time which ups the quality.



Then some considerations: 



- pick herbs in dry weather if at all possible. The only time you might consider

picking in wet weather is this: arggh - the meadowsweet are going to seed

already and it hasn't let up for ages ...

- do not add fresh herbs to a batch which has been in the dryer for some time;

that would lower your quality.

- do not mix different herbs. You don't want your dandelion roots to smell of

valeriana root ... nor do you want them to have the effects of meadowsweet. This

is important already while picking - different compartments in your basket or

different baskets for different herbs.

- clean the frames between batches.



And then a description of a cottage-size dryer:



Make several frames, say 50 cm deep x 100 cm wide x 5 cm high.

Staple mosquito net or similar to cover the bottom of your frame.

Make a framework holder which holds your frames; you should be able to get at

your frames while drying, and you should be able to pull them out and put in

other frames instead. Leave enough room on top / underneath for the

heater-airfan combo - if you let these get too close to your herbs they might

not dry but scorch - baad quality.



Should look a bit like this: 



|_________________________________|  /__ frame

|                                 |  \

|                                 |

|_________________________________|

|                                 |

|                                 |

|_________________________________|

|                                 |

|                                 |

|_________________________________|

|                                 |

|                                 |



Put an airfan either below or on top. Add a heater. Add a timer.



I have seen good designs for this size, or smaller, in books dealing with drying

food for camping trips. You can get those at any library.



Piece of cake. Have fun,

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: dietitians or herbalists out there?

From: ASHLEY C ALOIA <aloia@NEVADA.EDU>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:44:26 -0800

--------

I am a student at UNLV and have an assignment interviewing dietitians or

other related health professionals.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx

Ashley Aloia

aloia@nevada.edu





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Herbs for cats?!?!?!?

From: Victoria Schamberger <afn43914@AFN.ORG>

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:49:28 -0400

--------

Hi Everyone!



My name is Victoria and I have signed on in hopes of finding some help in

re: to herbal remedies for animals. If this subject is taboo--as it seems to

be on conventional VETERINARY lists, please let me know as painlessly as

possible;-)



I was hoping someone knew (or could direct me to someone who *does* know)

about dosages of vitamin C, echinachea, and other immune boosters for cats.

I got a cat from the shelter who had a Upper Respiratory InfectionI and now

have a resident cat who picked it up. Conventional medicine put the shelter

kitty on antibiotics in case of 2ndary infection, but put my older cat on a

decongestant to relieve his sniffling and sneezing. We all know antibiotics

won't touch the URI--so I'm stuck with a miserable kitty.



I appreciate any advice I recieve, and so does Skippy!!



TIA

Victoria

^--^    ^--^   ^--^

*+*     *+*    *+*

Victoria,

Skippy

Sam

and Max

Schamberger

afn43914@afn.org

http://www.afn.org/~afn43914



"Do I dare

Disturb the universe?

In a minute there is time

For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse"

        -T.S.Eliot

        _The Love Song of J.Alfred Prufrock_





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs for cats?!?!?!?

From: LorinGuild Apothecary <woodwitch@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:57:52 EST

--------

Hi...I am new to the list and couldn't help writing in for ya here...



I have two wonderful books that I got years ago and there is a new

homeopathic book on the market, but I am more naturopathic, so I can't

help ya with that one.

The first is "Rodale's Book of Practical Formulas" and it has dietary and

"practical" information.  The other is "The Complete Herbal Handbook for

the Dog and Cat" by Juliette de Bairacli Levy.  These are old Romany

(gypsy) cures and apparently the gypsy's didn't have much call for cats.

But there is some good info.



I would personally ask your Vet for antibiotics for your primary cat.  Is

she up to date on  her shots.  The annual shots you give cats cover the

most infectious of the UR disorders such as Clamydia.  (running eyes,

sniffles and sneezes)

I hope they feel better soon, so you may also.



I wish you well...

Hawk`Scry

woodwitch of LorinGuild Apothecary

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3654

-To light a candle is to cast a shadow-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: Herbs for cats?!?!?!?

From: Celeste <ckubasta@PIONEER.STATE.ND.US>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:04:27 -0800

--------

Victoria Schamberger wrote:

> to herbal remedies for animals.

A great site for general info is www.altvetmed.com

>

 a Upper Respiratory InfectionI and now

> have a resident cat who picked it up. Conventional medicine put the shelter

> kitty on antibiotics in case of 2ndary infection, but put my older cat on a

> decongestant to relieve his sniffling and sneezing.

If you get any private mail on this, please forward it to me also.  I

have a friend whose cats have the same problem.  TIA--Celeste





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: ramblings

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:47:37 GMT

--------

> Some of these plants taste interesting, others very

> bitter, but the thing is I trust the goats and sheep to tell me what's

> edible and what isn't and what seasons are better than others for what



Unfortunately, livestock die and get sick all the time from eating poisonous

fodder. While I take your point, you are romanticising.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: ramblings

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:24:38 +0100

--------

        It is safe to continue reading this letter. It is actually intended for

this mailing list. When I woke up this morning I decided to activate my

brain (for a nice change of pace) so things should be working fine.

However, if you do not, (today at least) wish to hear any new ideas that

might not fit into preconceived associations  about how things might be, if

I were you, I would rush to the nearest delete button (without passing 'GO'

as they say) and press it for all I was worth. Notice that this time the

disclaimer comes at the beginning.



         I was mulling over in my head the other day the fact (to me at least)

that one man's herb is another man's weed. To be honest, this thought

passes through my head almost every time I go out to pasture the goats and

sheep on land that is very rich in a variety of herbs. I know few of their

names (almost none in English) and neither do the goats. But this does not

seem to bother them; they are in fact, real busy chomping away and getting

nourishment. Believe it or not I have, in my existence as goatherd (a noble

profession) tasted almost all the herbs (bushes and plants; really whatever

you want to call them) out there that the animals eat on a daily basis. You

can't help but do that. You're out there for a couple of hours and feeling,

as they say, a bit peckish, and you see them eating up a storm and so you

take a nibble, sort of like a baby goat who after a week or two of only

mother's milk will go smelling around to see what all the hype is about

this solid food thing. Some of these plants taste interesting, others very

bitter, but the thing is I trust the goats and sheep to tell me what's

edible and what isn't and what seasons are better than others for what. I

would imagine that if one of those famines came along, and they *do* come

along (there was one here only 50-60 years ago), that I would know which

plants to begin cutting and cooking up for nourishment. It is of course

always interesting to see the plants they will gravitate to when they have

for example diarrhea (usually caused by eating too much wet green food

after not having any. Slowly and in moderation, that's the key.) or right

after birthing. Some plants are avoided except for one special time of year

when eating them seems to be right, with others they eat only the bark and

avoid the green leaves like the plague. But what they *do* do, they do with

such a certainty, such an inate wisdom that at times I can only envy them

their knowledge. They become in a sense my teachers.

         One suspects cures to many maladies lie hidden here. I have met

herbalists who have even taught me certain, for lack of a better word,

prayers, that one says over the plant before harvesting that increase the

plant's potency for curing. The belief that plants, as well, have a certain

inate intelligence is not foreign to me. To contact it, entering into the

realm of my belief system.



 There is in general so much more to life than meets the eye. As I think

Hamlet once told Horatio, there's more goin' down here than a jerk like you

would ever suspect.







        It is however in the personal contact (called cultivation) (and not their

mere observation in the wild) with plants, herbs, edibles in the garden

that plants will give up a lot of their secrets to you.  To me plants

display an incredible intelligence in the way they live.





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: ramblings

From: Dina Kerr and Dick Kerr <dikerr@MINDLINK.BC.CA>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:13:50 -0800

--------

>          To me plants

>display an incredible intelligence in the way they live.

>

>And I think you do too.



Very much enjoyed your ramblings.  I think you have a good life.

Dina

>

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: ramblings

From: Eric Feingold <eric@NET.DISBUMAD.ES>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:49:47 +0100

--------

Paul,

        What you say is indeed true, but only occurs under certain conditions. If

grazing animals are kept away from forraging, like in pens for example,

when they are let free you cannot trust them to choose a correct diet right

at once; you don't know what they will eat. They will be (madly) hungry for

natural plants. I believe this how most if not all of the poisonings occur.

Believe me, animals put out to pasture daily will steer clear of poisonous

herbs.

On Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:06:47 -0800 you wrote:



> Some of these plants taste interesting, others very

>> bitter, but the thing is I trust the goats and sheep to tell me what's

>> edible and what isn't and what seasons are better than others for what

>

>Unfortunately, livestock die and get sick all the time from eating poisonous

>fodder. While I take your point, you are romanticising.

>





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: ramblings

From: Karen Vaughan <creationsgarden@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:01:27 EST

--------

Beautiful post Eric-



> I would imagine that if one of those famines came along, and they *do*

come along (there was one here only 50-60 years ago), that I would know

which plants to begin cutting and cooking up for nourishment.



Sheep and goat stomach difference disclaimers apply.  But it is a clue.

Especially after you have tasted them.



> It is of course always interesting to see the plants they will

gravitate to when they have for example diarrhea (usually caused by

eating too much wet green food after not having any. Slowly and in

moderation, that's the key.) or

right after birthing. Some plants are avoided except for one special time

of

year when eating them seems to be right, with others they eat only the

bark

and avoid the green leaves like the plague. But what they *do* do, they

do

with such a certainty, such an inate wisdom that at times I can only envy



them their knowledge. They become in a sense my teachers.



Wow.  I envy your ability and time to observe.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Acupuncturists, was Re(2): Heart beats to fast

From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone@LAMG.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:09:33 GMT

--------

> Paul - you often recommend acupuncture connected with Chinese healing.

> Where I live all the acupuncturists are chiropractors, who I doubt are

> associated with Chinese healing.  How would I know?  What questions

> should I be asking them?



Well, any Chinese healer should supply a syndrome differentiation in

[translated] Chinese terms. If they can't do that, drop them. Candida,

hypoglycemia, hypothyroidism, toxins...these are not appropriate terms.



> Working under the assumption that none of them are qualified, how many

> visits would someone have to make to a qualified person, living xxx

> thousand miles from here?  A work associate has this problem and I know

> this would be her next questions.  TIA - Celeste



If distance interposes and no one local is qualified, then acupuncture is not

a good option. Either they deal with someone who does long distance Chinese

syndrome differentiation and treats with herbs and lifestyle therapy [like I

do, but this is NOT a solicitation], OR they seek out the services of a

homeopath, which can often be effective for this sort of illness. The

advantage of a homepath is that, though you may travel a few thousand miles

to see them initially, the followups can usually be done over the phone. The

therapy is utterly minimalistic, and very cheap (comparatively). The hard

part is finding a really good minimum dose homeopath. My own is in Davis,

California...in my considered opinion, well worth a cross-country flight.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: A slip of the knife

From: Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:18:48 GMT

--------

Yes folks, I need your advice, as usual.



Last evening while attempting to carve a roast, I had a knife slip and

cut into the side of my left, middle finger, the one between the index

finger and ring finger. It cut diagonally into the nail catching some

some flesh on the outside and going through the nail to within to

within a 1/4 inch of the tip.



It's clean and bled profusely, but what should I do now?



Your advice on healing this would be appreciated. I find typing more

difficult than usual with this wound :).





Sarah Elizabeth, Flemming sui juris

hitech@augusta.net





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A slip of the knife

From: LorinGuild Apothecary <woodwitch@JUNO.COM>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:02:07 EST

--------

>Your advice on healing this would be appreciated. I find typing more

>difficult than usual with this wound :).



As an Emt-B as well as herbalist..

keep it clean with soap and water.  I have made a slightly astringent

wound wash from soaking comfrey leaf (dried) in commercial witchhazel for

two weeks... strain and bottle (label all that good stuff)...not that it

will help you now, but for future reference.  You don't need stitches?

good..comfrey leaf either fresh or in a poultice will help heal with

leaving a minimal scar.

I would say keep it clean and bandaged for a day or two, then let it have

some air.  And try to be a little more careful with that knife   :)  I

bet the roast was delicious.



I wish you well...

Hawk`Scry

woodwitch of LorinGuild Apothecary

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3654

-To light a candle is to cast a shadow-





==========

To: HERB@VM.EGE.EDU.TR

Subject: Re: A slip of the knife

From: Sarah Flemming <hitech@AUGUSTA.NET>

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:38:19 GMT

--------

On Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:02:07 -0500 (EST), LorinGuild Apothecary

<woodwitch@JUNO.COM> wrote:



>|As an Emt-B as well as herbalist..

>|keep it clean with soap and water.  I have made a slightly astringent

>|wound wash from soaking comfrey leaf (dried) in commercial witchhazel for

>|two weeks... strain and bottle (label all that good stuff)...not that it

>|will help you now, but for future reference.  You don't need stitches?

>|good..comfrey leaf either fresh or in a poultice will help heal with

>|leaving a minimal scar.

>|I would say keep it clean and bandaged for a day or two, then let it have

>|some air.  And try to be a little more careful with that knife   :)  I

>|bet the roast was delicious.

>|

>|I wish you well...

>|Hawk`Scry

>|woodwitch of LorinGuild Apothecary

>|http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3654

>|-To light a candle is to cast a shadow-



Thank you for the advice, Hawk'Scry. I will work on the astringent,

peroxide is what I used :). Soap and water it gets lots of and

rebandaged often. I hasn't quite stopped bleeding under the nail, I

keep bumping it. But there is really nowhere to put stitches without

removing my nail to get to the wound. I don't think that, with

antibiotic therapy is gonna help much. Campfrey poltices win and

thanks.



Sarah

Sarah Elizabeth, Flemming sui juris

hitech@augusta.net



