

==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Neem

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 18:57:36 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 06:05 AM 10/31/98 +0300, you wrote:



Which of your co-students/profs is it you adulate??  <grin>



>To herb@MyList.net from "M.T. DABBAGH" <MTD@zajil.net>:

>

>Hi everybody....

>I'm new here in this list.....and I'm doing undergradulation research about

Neem

>( Azadirachtin indica)..and the relationship between it and the human body...

>

>As i know, it acts as anti-viral, anti-bacterial,anti-inflammatory,anti-fungul,

>anti-fertility, and anti-tumor agents....so if any one have more information

>that can help me, please contact me.....



You didn't mention its' effectiveness against crop pests in the plant

kingdom--or is that what you speak of?



If you read warnings on labels when applying against plant pests, it is a

good haloween-type chill. But--perhaps that was your intent?



Have you looked neem up on a search engine, before scaring us all to death? See;



http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/trees/neem.html (My favorite

tree-climbing was  a chinaberry tree near hoem. I used to make "perfume"

from the blossoms for mama. 

When I first purchased neem from Gardens Alive catalogue for natural pest

control, something scared me off--don't remember what. 



I think the purpose of mailing lists such as this is to compare our

exposures to agents and the agents of agents, rather than to swallow the

writtn words on the net as truth. These ares not necessarily so anymore than

the reports of Twain's death were.



Here is more, from inference find search engine--

 http://www.infind.com/





http://www.neemaura.com/Misc/therapeutic_overview.htm



http://www.meadowview.com/messages/54.html



http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/home/87pest.html



This site didnt seem to address safety:



http://www.uq.oz.au/~gagkrego/newslett/ncnl6-11.htm



This was a very interesting question, I am an organic home gardener, and I

believe now my first wariness may have been unwarranted. Thanks--it seems to

be a useful, safe product!



Pat



>                   my regards

>                                         M T D

>

>P.S  I already contact NEEM FOUNDATION.. any one knows other organization...?

>

>

>









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Liver

From: Roses9652@aol.com

Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:19:08 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Roses9652@aol.com:



Sarina:  I've experienced soreness/pain under my ribs on the rt. side and

thought it might be signs of liver problems.  Had gall bladder out over 12

yrs. ago...the T3 and T4 thing interests me.  If a person has low temp always,

could be hypothyroid or Wilson's...can that cause this soreness in the liver?

And what to do?  Dandelion/nettles?   





==========

To: "herblist" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: jaw/gum/tooth problems

From: "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:11:37 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>:



Amber,



<<The formula came from Dr. Richard Schulze.  I have used many of his

<<formulas in the past, and they

<<have always worked in the way he said they would>>  



>Hmmm - this is interesting stuff!  Does Dr. Schulze have a book out 

>by chance?  Where did you find his other remedies?  Help appreciated,

>Amber (also suffering from jawbone decay)



I subscribe to Sam Bizer's Newsletter.  The books and newsletter

subscription info are available on the following site:



http://www.healthfree.com/schulze/healing/



click on "Resources" on the side bar



Marie Winston

b.winston@worldnet.att.net







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Liver/Hypothoyroidism

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:25:22 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 98-10-31 19:21:32 EST, you write:



<< 

 Sarina:  I've experienced soreness/pain under my ribs on the rt. side and

 thought it might be signs of liver problems.  Had gall bladder out over 12

 yrs. ago...the T3 and T4 thing interests me.  If a person has low temp

always,

 could be hypothyroid or Wilson's...can that cause this soreness in the liver?

 And what to do?  Dandelion/nettles?   

  >>

First, here is a letter I received about the liver and t3 conversion. 



>>

greetings,

i'm responding out of list to your posting on hypothyroidism. i've had the

same problem for over ten years and rely on a very small dose of sythroid to

get by. i too have pursued herbal support and replacement but to no avail --

balance is very important in my constitution apparently, and that little bit

of synthroid seems necessary. when i do go off of it, it takes a few very

uncomfortable months to get back into gear again. however, i have noticed that

sjw is especially helpful in the heat flashes from thyroid storms and seems to

keep things nicely balanced. milk thistle is also good since the liver

converts the hormone to t3 to address other metabolic functions. i am told

that kelp can help or hinder a thyroid situation, so i steer clear of it. you

may want to discuss your situation with an acupuncturist, who can identify

specific meridians affected by the thyroid need. from there, you can apply

appropriate herbal support.

good luck!<<



With that said, yes, anyone who has low body temperatures should seriously

consider Wilsons Disease or Hypothyroidism. I put together, a little something

from everywhere, which I keep on file about hypothyroidism. Here it is: 



>>Hypothyroidism is an underactivity of the thyroid resulting in too little

production of thyroid hormone. It is not, as many in the alternative health

field think, an iodine defiency. Alternatiave health is, in most area's, ahead

of allopathy. In this area, some of them are lacking knowledge which does not

make alternative health look good. However, there are some in this field that

understand hypothyroidism is an auto-immune disease and not an iodine

defience. Goiter is an iodine defiency and that is where kelp, irish moss,

etc., can help. That is also just about where it ends. 



Find out your tsh level. If you were diagnosed, it probably was a blood test.

Become familiar with tsh and T4. You need to get to know your levels and have

them monitored from time to time, especially if you are going to start doing

alternatives. 



There are pluses and minueses with the blood test. The doctor has a chart. His

chart tells him whether your TSH and T4 fall within normal range or not. This

is where I had personal problems. The doctor is standing there telling you

that you are normal, your blood test proves it, and you are standing there

feeling awful, overweight without overeating (and we are talking about AFTER

he put you on thyroid medicine), hair is better but still brittle, hands and

feet still get a little cold when they shouldn't, you catch colds easily but

can't get rid of them, or other symtoms of hypothyroidism and possibly none of

these.  There are many symptoms of this disease. Anyway as time went on, I did

research and found MANY patients go through this. The reason is that these

charts are more often incorrect than correct. If the doctor would use them as

a guideline it wouldn't be so bad, but some doctors use them as law. The

reason for this is a paranoia that they might give you too much synthroid and

you will flip from hypothyroid to hyperthyroid. The difficulty with this

philosophy is that they are keeping you sick anyway. I would think they would

be more concerned that you are not being properly healed from the disease you

already have rather than one you might get. This problem of the flip, however,

can be easily solved by a doctor who is willing to monitor you with a blood

test. He can easily see if you have gone hyper this way, rather than keep you

sick because he is fear based. Anyway, most people who really have a normal

tsh, it is between 1 and 2. See what makes you feel best, but my doc insisted

I was all better at 3.7 when in fact I wasn't! 



Moving on, othodox therapy is based upon taking thyroid hormone daily to

replace what is not there. Often this has to remain as the basis of therapy,

in whichcase the aim is to help the body deal with the repercussions of the

condition. Synthroid represses the thyroid so it cannot heal. The doc tells

patients the thyroid does not heal just becuase it is diseased. But

alterrnative health says that it does not heal because of the synthroid.

Probelm is, we must take the synthroid or we could get a heart attack or

something else seriuos. However, with the addition of alternatives, many have

reduced their dose of synthroid and a few have been able to go off it, in

time. This should all be done, however, while being monitored by a (co-

operative) doctor, especailly using TSH and T4 blood test levels.  



The use of Sweedish Bitters in mild cases if HypoT has sometimes cured the

patient, but not in more serious cases, However, it usually is beneficial.



A number of important contributions can be made by herbs to supporting hormone

replacement therapy. Hypothyroidism causes accelerated atherosclerosis and so

coronary artery disease may occur because of deposits of mucopolysaccharidesin

the heart muscle. This damage may be lessened through the use of cardio-

vasculartonics such as Ginkgo biloba and Garlic. Problems reflecting

functional and structural changes in the skin can beeased, and whilst this may

be only symptomatic relief it is essential. Emollients, circulatory stimulants

etc. etc. can all find a role, but the specifics will depend upon the patients

experience. Moisturizing is especially importantas the skin is usually dry and

scaly. EFA's are also being reputed to help auto-immune diseases. 



Relieving some aspects of the symptomatic distress may be achieved herbally.

Any chronic constipation present may be alleviated with laxative.Hepatic

laxatives are the best as there will be the support of liver function,

examples include Rumex crispus, Juglans cineria(Butternut). In extreme cases

the anthraquinone containing herbs might benecessary, e.g. Rhamnus purshianus

(Cascara sagrada) or Cassiasenna (Senna).



Nervine tonics and other varieties of nervine may be indicated. The anti-

depressant plants such as Hypericumperforatum and Artemisia vulgaris can be

helpful.



The liver converts the hormone to t3 to address other metabolic functions, so

dandelion root and milk thistle are especially good. 



I read these things on the net.



"Frequently, low thyroid function is NOT due to low production of thyroxine by

the thyroid but due to failure to convert T4 to T3." I don't know what to

think of that. 



To continue :)



Defiencies in any of the following mierals can prevent conversion of T4 to T3:

cortisol, iron, zinc, copper, selenium



(Guess whose upped her mineral intake? <g> )



That Burdock root aids the pitituary gland by releasing protein to help adjust

hormone balance.



Coleus (a plant) increases the release of hormones from the thyroid gland. The

only problem I am having is locating this plant, as it is not the American,

etc., version, but must come from India or similar. It must be coleus

*foskolin.*  If anyone locates it, please let me know. :)



Adrenal weakness has ALOT to do with hypothyroism.  I have just started on

ProGest cream, which helps the adreanls. It is a percursor to progesterone, a

hormone the adreanls should make enough of but often is not doing it's job for

those with hypothyroidism. I also take licorice root which is natural

cortisone, (don't take if high blood pressure is present, and one may need a

diuretic, or may not). Cortisone is another hormone the adreanls should be

making enough of but aren't. Licorice root also helps stimulate cell

production of interferon, the body's own anti-viral compound. Cal/magnesium,

B5, B complex, all a high protein breakfast. (In my opinion, lacto-vegetarian

is the best way to get protein, as it does not wear the organs down and it

also offers calcium, as many with hypoT get osteoporosis.)



HypoT raises cholesterol levels, which in turn makes hypoT worse. A cycle. So,

garlic helps, and eating oatmeal for breakfast. Fenugreek (lipotropic) ,

chickweed (plaque resisting). 



The B vitamins Riboflavin, Niacin, Pyrodoxine - play a role in thyroid hormone

production. 



C and E , lack of, have been known to cause hyperplasia at a cellular level in

the thyroid.



I have also, recently, discovered, via the net, that Chinese herbs has

something to offer and knows quite a bit about hypoT, but I am just now

investigating that. If you know about this, please tell me. 



One is recommended to eat small meals often instead of three big meals a day.

About about every two hours, at least for awhile. Sometimes that is hard

because we want to eat with family, so a HEALTHY snack can replace a small

meal, like whole what crackers with hummus on it, or a slice of tofu, a cup of

miso soup, etc. And by the way, the more soy one eats the less chance of

getting cancer and those with thyoirid disease have an increased chance of

getting cancer since their immune system, which is located in the thyroid, is

down.  



I am also in the experiemental stage with some new exercise which I heard will

help hypoT ALOT. Now, like I say, it is still experiemental, but it helped

someone. A man had thyroid disease and they were going to remove his thryoid.

He talked to an Ayurvedic doctor who gave him a simple exercise to do every

other day. It seems so simple of an exercise that it is hard to beleive it

works, but this man, after doing the exercize, did not need the surgery

anymore! So, I am giving it a shot. Here it is. Just raise the head up and

down, SLOWLY, and also go from one side to the other SLOWLY, for 20 minutes

every other day. It gets boring so I watch TV or something. Well, sort of

watch it, as my head is moving alot. hehe  But it is worth the try for me. I

wasn't told how long to continue this, weeks, months, etc. so I can't pass

that along. I am guessing that if overdone it could make one go hyperT, but we

just have to use our intelligence and observe our tsh levels, how we feel and

look, basal thermometer temperatures, etc. Well, just thought I would throw

that exercise idea out there. 



By the way, I claim a disclaimer here that anything I say is not for

diagnostic purposes etc.,and to see a health care professional. 



.<<



Hope this helps. Would love to hear any other FACTS about hypoT. Thanks. 



<3

Pari







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Moths

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:35:41 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



When a friend lived in Nigeria she was charged *more* for flour with

weevils in it.  Extra protein.



And insect residues are believed to be important sources of B12 vitamins

for Indian vegans- enough so that when they migrate to Britian where

cleanliness standards are somewhat higher they develop previously unknown

pernicious anemia from a lack of B12.  



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment in the modality of

your choice.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton.



On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:21:43 -0000 Tera Gram <teragram@silcom.com>

writes:

>Was a time when it was impossible to buy ground grain products without 

>EXPECTING there to be a few bugs in it, or they'd show up soon enough. 



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:  Moths

From: oinonenehren@macalester.edu

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 10:41:10 -0500 (CDT)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oinonenehren@macalester.edu:



Boy, I've been here before.  Once I was eating breakfast cereal and

found a big grub the hard way.  After that experience I decided I was

never going to have another grub in my food (and if you've got moths,

you've got grubs/mealworms/larvae, what have you...)  

This is going to take some time, so give yourself at least an afternoon. 

First off, you need to take everything out of your pantry.  



Anything that is in a glass or pottery container with a close fitting lid

is probably ok.  Wipe the outsides with a damp cloth, concentrating

particularly on anything stuck to the bottom. Put those Anything that is

in an open container, a paper bag or plastic bag, or a cardboard box will

need to be checked.

Anything that is ok needs to be put into a glass or pottery container with

a tight fitting lid.  I recommend sifting flours to be sure they are fine

before repacking them.  Don't leave anything in plastic, even if it is

unopened. Plastic bags are easy for mice to chew through, and you don't

want to encourage mice.  Plastic shouldn't be left in contact with foods

for long periods anyway.

Plus, plastic bags sealed at the factory can have small gaps and openings,

and these insects don't ned much of an opening.  Any canned goods and

goods in unopened jars are fine. Wipe bottoms/outsides with a damp cloth

to be sure nothing is stuck to it (food residue/spillage/dust)

By now everything should be in glass or pottery or a can that has nothing

stuck to the bottom or outside.  

Now go into your pantry and scour everything, walls, shelves, floors,

every surface that might have been or could be in contact with spilled

food.  Don't put unopened bags (like flour bags) in your pantry, you can't

rely on them to a) keep the food from spilling b) keep the vermin out of

your food.  Things that you buy in boxes with liners can be ok if you are

careful about closing the liner, but unlined boxes you're better off

transferring the contents to a jar or something.  

If you wish you can strew pennyroyal in your clean pantry, or

use pennyroyal oil or some other repellant oil in your cleaning water, but

don't strew pennyroyal around in a messy pantry, it won't work and isn't

just vermin attracting, it isn't healthy.  All kinds of

dust and mold can be contaminating your food.  Plus, you donUtet all funky

tasting and loose their potency.  Spices and culinary herbs as well

as medicinal herbs also suffer from long storage and exposure to air.  



On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 MDLukacs@aol.com wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from MDLukacs@aol.com:

> 

> 

> In a message dated 10/31/98 9:15:43 AM, you wrote:

> 

> <<The ones that come out of

> flour and such...little white colored things...

> How the heck do you get rid of them with herbs?  They are eating

> me out of house and home.>>

> 

> I don't think there is a way to get rid of them, I think they must be

> prevented.  Once they infest some food item, get it out of the house

> immediately ... before they find another food box to reside in.  

> 

> I had this problem years ago, but once I threw out EVERYTHING and washed the

> cupboards well, the problem dissipated.  Now for safekeeping I keep bay leaves

> in my flour and that has worked.

> 

> Denise

> 







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:  Moths

From: paf@connix.com

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:47:36 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from paf@connix.com:



At one time I had a house full of Indian meal moths, courtesy of organic

rice from the local health food store.  Now I keep a bay leaf in any

container of flour or grain at room temp, and the rice goes into sealed

glass jars in the refrigerator.  The moth eggs hatch out during

spring-summer time, but I keep it in the fridge anyway.



When I bring grains home from the health food store, I immediately jar and

seal and refrigerate them, and I toss the sacks they came in outdoors and

wash anything else (like my funnel) they touched in soapy water.  Since I

started treating organic flours and grains in this fashion, it has

completely eliminated the infestation problem.  Before that, I had to throw

out everything in the cupboard and put a moth ball in the cupboard for a

while.  The larvae had crawled into every package of cakemix, jell-0, rice,

etc., and re-etc., in the kitchen.



I also learned not to keep birdseed for the birdfeeder in the house; same

problem.  It goes in a metal sealed container in the garage.



Best, AnitaL.





--



paf@connix.com









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Moths

From: John Goude <nature@eee.org>

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 19:21:02 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from John Goude <nature@eee.org>:



seer7 wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from seer7 <seer7@netusa1.net>:

> You know the moths that get in your pantry?  The ones that come out of

> flour and such...little white colored things...

> How the heck do you get rid of them with herbs?  



One thing not covered here has not been the dry ice method.  for long

term storage take a container of food and drop a bit of dry ice in it.

close it but not sealed. after an hour or two the dry ice has turned

to carbon dioxide (heavier than air) and displaced the air in the

container.  Now you can seal it with the CO2 acting as a fumigant.



I know bay leaves work too.  If you put them in, put them in when you

put the dry ice in.



-- 

<>< John Goude ><>            ham: KE6VUB

JEG Development

Yucaipa, CA 92399-5605

e-mail: nature@eee.org        http://www.eee.org/bus/nature





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: rash ?

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 07:30:38 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 07:40 AM 10/30/98 -0500, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Anne <anne@gate.net>:

>

>Hello everyone!

>I just noticed yesterday my back itched a little and of course I scratched

>it and it burned a lot. Then I noticed I must have a rash, my family thinks

>that is what it is also. I've never had one before , is there anything

>herbally I can put on it to make it go away? It doesn't itch that much yet

>, maybe because I'm resisting scratching it! :) Any suggestions would be

>much appreciated. I only posted because I haven't seen anything about

>rashes on any lists so far. 

>

>Thanks! :)

> Sometimes it seems we are so into our fantasy of a perfect romance, the

>right person just walks by.

>

>

Rash is heat.  Use diaphoretic herbs, Yarrow, Eupatorium perf., Peppermint,

etc. to help disperse the heat. Eat less meat, more veggies.  Use

Plantain/calendula cream or ointment topically to soothe the area.

Chickweed may be of help both topically and internally.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Post-nasal drip and bad breath

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 07:39:20 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 06:28 PM 10/30/98 PST, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Claudia L. Meydrech, LCN"

<nutritionist@mailexcite.com>:

>

>>Does anyone have any ideas for herbal 

>>remedies for bad breath, probably

>>caused by post-nasal drip? (Where better 

>>to ask such an embarrassing question?) 

>

>:-)

>

>Are you taking anything herbal, or adjusting

>diet at all for the post-nasal drip?  We use

>peppermint oil (for bad breath) - just 

>one drop on the tongue

>is great. To much peppermint oil can make you

>ill, but a drop is fine.  Also good for an

>upset stomach, moving gas out of the intestines,

>etc.   Chlorophyl is great as well for

>deoderizing the body and building the blood

>as well - green drinks.

>

>Claudia L. Meydrech, LCN

>Licensed Certified Nutritionist

>

Diet should be adjusted.  Chronic post-nasal drip will certainly cause

halitosis.  Any time there is this problem you must look to the stomach.

Digestion is certainly a problem.  Increasing intake of fresh and cooked

vegetables is recommended.  Reduce intake of meats.  Use fish more often.

Decrease intake of heavy carbohydrates like grains, bread, etc.  Use

stomach bitters to aid in digestion.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Post-nasal drip and bad breath

From: Michael Acord <mpacord@concentric.net>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:41:06 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Michael Acord <mpacord@concentric.net>:



Lori wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from Lori <lja@enteract.com>:

> 

> Does anyone have any ideas for herbal remedies for bad breath, probably

> caused by post-nasal drip? (Where better to ask such an embarrassing

> question?)

> Thanks, Lori

No thoughts about herbs, but "snorting" saline, followed by blowing your

nose will help prevent the buildup of phlegm which can become colonized

by bacteria.

	Mike Acord





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Moths & jars

From: alliani@flash.net (Randy & Lori Alliani)

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 17:56:06 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from alliani@flash.net (Randy & Lori Alliani):



On storage jars:  I use wide mouth canning jars for all my storage.  I

have a small list of reasons why I like them so much.



*they prevent things from going stale

*they all use the same lid (no digging through drawers and boxes of different

lid sizes)

*they're uniform size, making the pantry look more organized

*they're clear, so you can see what you have and how much

*they come in several sizes (but the same size lid!)



The largest jar I've been able to find in a store is 1/2 gallon (at a hardware

store in CA called Orchard Supply Hardware).  I've seen pictures of 1 gallon

sizes, but I've not been able to find any.  I use the 1/2 gallon sizes as

canisters, too.



I've never had the weevil/moth problem (knock on wood) - I think it just got

added to my list of pros! 

:)

	Lori





On Sun, 01 Nov 1998 10:41:10 -0500 (CDT), you wrote:



~To herb@MyList.net from oinonenehren@macalester.edu:

~

~Boy, I've been here before.  Once I was eating breakfast cereal and

~found a big grub the hard way.  After that experience I decided I was







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal Wraps and Fomentations (plus addnedum)

From: j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski)

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 23:18:47 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski):



	*In response to the many requests I received for the "herbal

wraps" info after I had posted it, I am reposting it along with some new

information>



	*In my searching I found another source, already amongst my

herbal library books, that discusses in great detail the application of

"fomentations", with out alot of info regarding what herbs to use.   

This sources is  Jethro Kloss in "Back to Eden".

There is an entire chapter entitled "Compresses and Fomentations".   This

chapter includes such interesting sounding things as "salt rubs",

"blanket pack", "cold mitten friction", etc.  But the procedure for the

wrap is excellent and includes pictures!



	Anyone interested in more info or sharing experiences w/ herbal

wraps, please contact me.	

	

OK  Here is the scoop on "herbal wraps" This based on information from

several sources

1)  "Lillipoh"  (journal featuring the Anthroposophical approach to

health and illness)

the current issue  (Issue 14 fall/winter) - an article entitled

"Compresses and Poultices"         (e-mail address     lilipoh@aol.com )



2)  A book called "Caring for the Sick at Home", by T.van Bentheim, s

Bos, W. Visser, E. de la Houssaye  (Anthroposopic Press)

                 (e-mail address   anthropres@aol.com, phone

1800-925-1795 )



3)  A phone conversation w/ a nurse belonging to the Anthroposophical

Nurses Association of America Herbal wraps.



 (warning:  never apply essential oils directly to skin,dilute as

directed) 



*For bruises and sprains: 

	Using one part Arnica Essence to nin parts water at room

temperature, wet a cloth the size of the affected area (closed skin

injuires only).  Apply to the affected area and cover w/ wool wrap.  Add

moisture under the wool wrap.  Keep this up until the swelling has gone

down, the switch to using Arnica ointment.



*For Inflammations and abrasions:

	Same procedure using calenula essence. 



*For Abd cramping, menstrual cramps, inflamed eyes, sensory overload

(especially in children):

	Chamomile infusion, boiled then cooled to warm (not hot) apply

wrap

over affected area   Cover wrap w/ wool cloth to insulate.



*For minor burns:

	After running cool water over affected area, apply Combudoron

burn ointment the wrap w/ cool damp (wrung out cloth) .



 	This is only a partial listing, both references mention many

more, wraps, compresses, poultices and inhalations for various

conditions.  

	I plan to use the "Arnica wrap" for my daughter after her Wisdom

teeth

extraction. Please let me know if you try it and how it work -Jenny Iris 

___________________________________________________________________ You

don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: bilberry leaf 

From: j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski)

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 23:20:59 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski):



Hello,

	I've boughtn some bilberry leaf tea, it tastes great, but I

cannot find info on it in any of my regular herbals.  Does anyone know if

it has another name?  Please help! Any discussion, uses, etc.

appreciated! 

	Thanks,  Jenny Iris



___________________________________________________________________

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==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: RE: bilberry leaf 

From: "boulton, robin" <rboulton@sun.hennepin.lib.mn.us>

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:07:34 -0600 

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "boulton, robin" <rboulton@sun.hennepin.lib.mn.us>:



I've read that bilberry is good for improving night vision - the article

said it was given to British pilots during World War II to help them see

better when flying at night.



-----Original Message-----

From:	owner-herb@MyList.net [mailto:owner-herb@MyList.net] On Behalf

Of Jennifer Kiliszewski

Sent:	Sunday, November 01, 1998 10:21 PM

To:	herb@MyList.net

Subject:	bilberry leaf 



To herb@MyList.net from j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski):



Hello,

	I've boughtn some bilberry leaf tea, it tastes great, but I

cannot find info on it in any of my regular herbals.  Does anyone know

if

it has another name?  Please help! Any discussion, uses, etc.

appreciated! 

	Thanks,  Jenny Iris



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:bilberry leaf

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:21:50 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



In response to j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski):



John Lust's Herb Book, copyright 1974, lists bilberry with some lesser-used

alternative common names, but in commercial products, I haven't seen any common

name other than bilberry.  John Lust says the leaves are an effective remedy

for diarrhea, and he says much more about the dried and fresh berries.  I ate

wild blueberries in New York State years ago but don't know the species, wonder

if one of the species was Vaccinium myrtillus, which is bilberry.



How much bilberry leaves do you use per volume of water?



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: pernicious anemia

From: "CoraLynn McKelvy" <coralynnmckelvy@usa.net>

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:35:14 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "CoraLynn McKelvy" <coralynnmckelvy@usa.net>:



Karen,

You're comment on pernicious anemia linked with lack of B12 jumped at me. I

was 17 months old when I almost died from pernicious anemia. Only treatment

back then was massive transfusions which most babies' veins could not handle

& collapsed, resulting in death. Received transfusions every 4-6 months for

the next 5 years.

I (my family) was told that it would return once I passed 40 but has not

happened yet.

Any more info you could share?



Thanks,

CoraLynn

ne TN

coralynnmckelvy@usa.net



-----Original Message-----

From: creationsgarden@juno.com <creationsgarden@juno.com>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 7:47 AM

Subject: Re: Moths





>And insect residues are believed to be important sources of B12 vitamins

>for Indian vegans- enough so that when they migrate to Britian where

>cleanliness standards are somewhat higher they develop previously unknown

>pernicious anemia from a lack of B12.

>

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com

>***************************************



>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: pernicious anemia

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:22:14 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



CoraLynn-



No sense in believing that pernicious anemia will inevitably occur.  Am I

correct in assuming that you currently have no problems related to it?



Watch your diet, make sure you have enough protein and B12 and generally

use herbs and lifestyle choices that support your circulation.  In your

case I probably wouldn't depend upon a vegetarian diet, but make sure

your diet is full of chlorophyll-rich herbs and vegetables as well as

grass-fed lamb and organic beef, stay active and use circulatory spices

like cayenne, cinnamon and ginger.  Use nettles, gingko and rutin for

your capillaries and massage skin over any areas that might have been

damaged from your childhood transfusions with comfrey oil.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment in the modality of

your choice.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton.



On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:35:14 -0500 "CoraLynn McKelvy"

<coralynnmckelvy@usa.net> writes:

>You're comment on pernicious anemia linked with lack of B12 jumped at 

>me. I

>was 17 months old when I almost died from pernicious anemia. Only 

>treatment

>back then was massive transfusions which most babies' veins could not 

>handle

>& collapsed, resulting in death. Received transfusions every 4-6 

>months for

>the next 5 years.

>I (my family) was told that it would return once I passed 40 but has 

>not

>happened yet.

>Any more info you could share?

___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: pernicious anemia

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:29:51 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Elfreem@aol.com:



CoraLynn McKelvy writes:



>  You're comment on pernicious anemia linked with lack of B12 jumped at me. I

>  was 17 months old when I almost died from pernicious anemia. Only treatment

>  back then was massive transfusions which most babies' veins could not

handle

>  & collapsed, resulting in death. Received transfusions every 4-6 months for

>  the next 5 years.

>  I (my family) was told that it would return once I passed 40 but has not

>  happened yet.

>  Any more info you could share?



Pernicious enemia is a deficiency of B12 usually brought about by he lack 

of intrinsic factor which is needed for B12 absorption. Its usually treated 

either orally with cobalamin, intrinsic factor, and iron ....or parenterally 

with B12 injection. Oral dosing with intrinsic factor is quite expensive and 

B12 injections usually require a nurse to administer. Most physicians 

believe that oral cobalamin without intrinsic factor, which is sold over-the

counter, cannot be absorbed ...but this is erroneous. Several recent 

clinical studies and at least one older study confirm that absorption does 

indeed take place if dosage is 1000mcg or more per day. If anyone is 

interested in more information, please contact me directly since this is 

off topic.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh, Managing Editor

Midwest Shared Newsletter/Herb Nutrition Newsletter

Member, Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists



(for free online issues of the Herb Nutrition Newsletter, send a request to

Elfreem@aol.com)





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: pernicious anemia

From: "CoraLynn McKelvy" <coralynnmckelvy@usa.net>

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:32:59 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "CoraLynn McKelvy" <coralynnmckelvy@usa.net>:



Karen,

Thanks for the thought & info.

No problem with pernicious anemia, have run anemic throughout my life but

not in the last 10 years or so.



Have always wondered what caused p.a. & why a baby would have it.

Might this be linked to my childhood inability to resist diseases?  i.e.

had measles 11 times (7 of the easy & 4 of the hard--every time there was a

measle outbreak in school I got extra gammaglobulin), chicken pox 3 times,

mumps twice, whooping cough every fall until I was 15 (set off probably by

severe allergies), pneumonia several times before age 11. Nearly died when I

was 7 or 8 because I had measles, mumps & pneumonia at the same time--missed

a lot of school that winter. :)



Used to be sick about 4 times a year minimum, but since discovering herbs

about 4 years ago I have only been to the doctor once a year for a check-up.

This only to track the Hep C I picked up in transfusions from a severe car

wreck 15 years ago. No trace of Hep C being active, just test positive to

antibodies test. Allergies don't bother me much any more either, don't take

Rx meds when they do--just herbs.



CoraLynn

ne TN

coralynnmckelvy@usa.ent









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Help for the voiceless

From: Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 11:12:51 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:



Henriette Kress wrote:

> 

> >My wife has lost her voice. Her MD diagnosed it as an infection of the

> >respiratory tract, told her to go home to rest and not speak for a week.

> 

> I'd go for mullein tea, or a bit of the tincture in -hot- water.



Thank you, Henriette, for the advice and thanks to all the others who

responded to my question about how to treat sore throat and lost voice

(Linda Semple, Nodigio, Anita Hales and others).

   So, I made some herbal tea (ie. a hot infusion) for her of mullein

(Verbascum thapsus), salvia (S. officinalis) and yarrow (Achillea

millefolium) to get rid of the infection and to soothe the mucous

membranes, added a pinch of mint (Mentha x dalmatica) mostly for the

taste but also to give some instant relief and the sensation of 'this

tea works'. Then she could get very nervous and irritated because she

couldn't speak and I couldn't always understand her sign language, so I

added a little skullcap to help her calm her nerves. These ingredients

were chosen by what was readily available in the grocery store (salvia)

and what I already had (everything else).

   I told her to drink a mug (about 2 dl) of it three to five times a

day, which she did. She started to feel better the next day (friday) and

by sunday she had her voice back to almost normal and she didn't feel so

tired anymore. She's gone to work today and she took a thermos bottle

full of the tea with her. Looks like it's getting better all the time.

   Thanks again, you good people.



--

Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi



"After silence, that which comes nearest 

to expressing the inexpressible is music." 

- Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Looking for info about several herbs...

From: "Yvan Lindekens" <yvan.lindekens@skynet.be>

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:36:57 +0100

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Yvan Lindekens" <yvan.lindekens@skynet.be>:



Hi,



I'm looking for every information I can get about the following plants:



* Urtica dioica / Urtica urens

* Taraxacum officinale 

* Malva sylvestris 



Information about:



* chemical composition of the species

* medical and paramedical aplications

* historical background of the use of this herb in medicine

* gossip about it and everything you want to tell me....



is much apreciated...



Thanks in advance,



yvan.lindekens@skynet.be







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Looking for info about several herbs...

From: KarmaLake@aol.com

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:32:18 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from KarmaLake@aol.com:



Hi,

I hope this was appropriate to respond to the list and not a personal email.

I found a little on the first herb/plant you asked about. Hope this

information helps.

Karma

Urtica dioica 

<Picture>Urtica urens 

<Picture>Stinging Nettle



PARTS USUALLY USED: Root and leaves



MEDICINAL PROPERTIES: Nettles contain iron, sulphor, potassium and sodium.

Excellent for kidney trouble. They expel bladder stones. The boiled leaves

applied externally will stop bleeding almost at once. Tea from the root is

used in hemorrhaging from urinary organs, lungs, intestines, stomach and nose.

Tea from leaves will clean out urinary tract and expel phlegm from lungs. The

green leaves, cooked like spinach, make a good blood purifier.



Excellent hair tonic - will bring back natural color - removes dandruff.

Simmer for thirty minutes and use as a final rinse. 







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Looking for info about several herbs...

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:19:25 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from NEHrbSup@aol.com:



The book you want is "Nutritional Herbology" , " A reference guide to herbs"

by Mark Pederson.  It sells for 19.95 and lists all of the properties of the

herbs you are asking about along with each of the mineral constituents and the

amounts of each.  Its one of the books in my reference library that I look at

with some frequency.  If you can't find a copy locally, get back to me

privately off list and we can get one to you in a couple of days.

peter. 





==========

To: "herb@MyList.net" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Bilberry

From: "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 01:27:23 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>:



Hello Jennifer,



The following is listed in "The Herb Book" by John Lust, published 1974:



Bilberry (Vaccinium myrtillus). Common names: Black whorleberry,

blueberry,

burren myrtle, dyeberry, huckleberry, whinberry, whortleberry,

wineberry.



Pat Hironimus







==========

To: "herb@MyList.net" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Bilberry

From: "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 01:30:08 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>:



Jennifer,



More from the same source ("The Herb Book" by John Lust):



Medicinal Parts:    Leaves, berries.



Description:    Bilberry is a shrubby perennial plant that grows in the

sandy areas

of the northern U.S. and in the woods and forest meadows of Europe. The

angular, green, branched stem grows from a creeping rootstock to a

height of 1 to

1-1/2 feet. The leaves are alternate, obviate to ovate, weakly serrate,

dark green

and shiny on top, and 1/2 to 1 inch long. The reddish pink or red and

white,

solitary axillary flowers have a pitcher-shaped corolla and appear in

May and

June. The fruit is a blue-black (may be red in some areas), 5-seeded

berry.

Although often called huckleberry, the bilberry is more nearly related

to the

cranberry.



Properties and Uses:  Antiseptic, astringent, in the case of diarrhea,

use the left as

an effective remedy. Fresh berries require some experimentation, because

they

can produce diarrhea in some people and stop it in others. They work

well mixed

with grated apple. The dried berries are definitely astringent and can

be taken

alone or mixed with apple powder. The berries have the advantage of

passing

through the stomach without affecting it, then beginning to work in the

small

intestine. A concentrated decoction of the berries is also said to be

good for

typhoid fever. Fresh or well preserved berry juice makes a good

mouthwash or

gargle for respiratory catarrhal problems. For inflamed gums or for

leucoplasia (an

inflammation of the tongue which produces white patches), keep a

mouthful of the

juice in the mouth for a while. Eating the fresh berries has also been

observed to

regular bowel action, stimulate appetite, end intestinal putrefaction

(which

produces gas and flatulence), and stomach cramps, and catarrhal

enteritis. Use

them in addition as a gargle for stomatitis and as a wash for skin

problems and

burns. CAUTION: Leaves can produce symptoms of poisoning if used over

long

periods.



Preparation and Dosage:    Gather the leaves when the plant is fully

developed but

before the berries are ripe.



Infusion:    Use 2 to 3 tsp. leaves with 1 cup water. Take 1 cup a day.



Decoction:    Use 1 tsp. dried berries with 1 cup water. Take 1 to 2

cups a day,

cold.



Cold Extract:    Use 1/3 oz. dried berries with 1 cup water; let stand

for 8 hours.



Tincture:    Take 15 to 40 drops in water, 3 or more times a day as

needed.



I live in Montana where huckleberry is a food staple of the bear

population.  This

year the huckleberry was not very prolific, and I had a bear in my

farming area

eating the organic red clover cover crop with the deer.



Pat Hironimus







==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Yellow Dock and Pregnancy

From: "Dresner, Richard R" <rrd91663@GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:34:17 -0000 

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dresner, Richard R" <rrd91663@GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>:



My wife, who is pregnant, is looking for a natural way of supplementing her

iron intake. I read in a book that 40 drops of Yellow Dock (Rumex cripsus)

tincture taken night and morning will supply sufficient iron for her needs.

Has anyone heard of any contraindications of using yellow dock during

pregnancy?



Thanks a bundle,



Rick Dresner

rrd91663@ggr.co.uk







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Yellow Dock and Pregnancy

From: oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon)

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:10:04 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon):



Yellow Dock is a good source of easily assimilated, non-constipating

iron, and reportedly safe during pregnancy.   Another good source would

be Nettles, which is benificial in that it aids the kidneys in their

increased job, it provides Vitamin K which can be passed on to the baby

in-utero, and then in rich breastmilk,  and also helps prevent

hemorrhaging after birth.  It is also high in calcium, which can diminish

cramping.  Many midwives reccommend alternating Red Raspberry tea with

Nettle tea on a weekly basis, throughout the pregnancy.  Using cast iron

cooking pans will also boost the consumption of iron, which is beneifited

in assimilation by vitamin C.

See the book _Herbal for the Childbearing Year_  by Susun Weed (nci)



Blessings~

Nell, student midwife



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Yellow Dock and Pregnancy

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:16:02 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:10:04 EST, oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon) wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>Yellow Dock is a good source of easily assimilated, non-constipating

>iron, and reportedly safe during pregnancy.   



That's plain wrong. We store about half a years supply of iron in the submucosa

of the small intestine. Yellowdock (Rumex crispus) will make this iron more

mobile. Iron needs -lots- of antioxidants for transport (from anywhere to

anywhere within our body, here it's from storage in the submucosa to the liver).

Antioxidants, like brightly colored fruit (blackberries, black currants,

cherries, blueberries...). Do any of those if you do lots of yellowdock.

In itself yellowdock contains no iron to speak of.



>Another good source would

>be Nettles, 



...and oatstraw, alfalfa, red clover... the mineral teas. Minerals in these are

best absorbed as teas.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Yellow Dock and Pregnancy

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:56:29 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Yellow dock is occasionally included in lists as contraindicated for

pregnant women but in fact I believe that it is _far_ more easily

tolerated than iron prenatal vitamins (but make sure she has a source of

folate).  The iron in vitamins is quite constipating and is toxic

(Todlers who eat vitamins with iron have been known to die).  Pregnant

women have traditionally used rumex and I simply believe that the

warnings are a result of looking at constituents rather than herbal

actions.  (All plants contain some things which we do not use or which

our gut bacteria selectively absorb for our bodies.  Dead plant ashes

actually tell us little about what is absorbed).  I would however suggest

a dose half that strong.  



Rumex crispus makes dietary iron more bioavailable rather than providing

large amounts of iron salts. She should of course make certain that her

diet is mineral rich.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment in the modality of

your choice.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton.



On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:34:17 -0000  "Dresner, Richard R"

<rrd91663@GlaxoWellcome.co.uk> writes:

>

>My wife, who is pregnant, is looking for a natural way of 

>supplementing her

>iron intake. I read in a book that 40 drops of Yellow Dock (Rumex 

>cripsus)

>tincture taken night and morning will supply sufficient iron for her 

>needs.

>Has anyone heard of any contraindications of using yellow dock during

>pregnancy?

___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>,

        "'HeK@HETTA.PP.FI'"

	 <HeK@HETTA.PP.FI>

Subject: RE: Yellow Dock and Pregnancy

From: "Dresner, Richard R" <rrd91663@GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:48:14 -0000 

--------

Henriette on 03 November 1998 15:16, wrote



> >Yellow Dock is a good source of easily assimilated, non-constipating

> >iron, and reportedly safe during pregnancy.   

> 

> That's plain wrong. We store about half a years supply of iron in the

> submucosa

> of the small intestine. Yellowdock (Rumex crispus) will make this iron

> more

> mobile. Iron needs -lots- of antioxidants for transport (from anywhere to

> anywhere within our body, here it's from storage in the submucosa to the

> liver).

> Antioxidants, like brightly colored fruit (blackberries, black currants,

> cherries, blueberries...). Do any of those if you do lots of yellowdock.

> In itself yellowdock contains no iron to speak of.

> 

Thanks for shedding light on the subject.

The question arises, does yellow dock's action of moving iron from the

submucosa to the liver have any detrimental effect on the finely balanced

state in which a baby is growing? Forgive my ignorance, but does this not

make significant demands on the woman's body to which she is perhaps

unaccustomed? 



With regard to the herbal teas and such, how much would my wife need to

drink per day. She is close to being anaemic (sp) and is alrady drinking

Rasberry leaf tea 3 times a day.



Thanks again

Rick Dresner

rrd91663@ggr.co.uk













==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Yellow Dock and Pregnancy

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:53:24 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:48:14 -0000 , "Dresner, Richard R"

<rrd91663@GlaxoWellcome.co.uk> wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:



>state in which a baby is growing? Forgive my ignorance, but does this not

>make significant demands on the woman's body to which she is perhaps

>unaccustomed? 



No more so than the iron pills. Ever feel funny taking one on an empty stomach?

Like, half nauseous? Try a bit of antioxidants before and after.



>With regard to the herbal teas and such, how much would my wife need to

>drink per day. She is close to being anaemic (sp) and is alrady drinking

>Rasberry leaf tea 3 times a day.



That depends on the person - she'll have to find her own balance.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: Herb@MyList.net

Subject: Lungs

From: Kat11559@aol.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:50:51 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:



To all,



My daughter Anne has been having lung and throat problems that start about

this time of year ... every year since she was a child.  She is 17 now and

last night was the onset of the first of what is normally an antibiotic filled

fall season.  She is rattling in her chest and spitting up yellowish phlegm.

Can I please have some suggestions?



Thank you 



Kathrine

>^..^<





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lungs

From: Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:07:05 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:



Kat11559@aol.com wrote:

> 

> My daughter Anne has been having lung and throat problems that start about

> this time of year ... every year since she was a child.  She is 17 now and

> last night was the onset of the first of what is normally an antibiotic filled

> fall season.  She is rattling in her chest and spitting up yellowish phlegm.

> Can I please have some suggestions?



I am not an MD and if I was, I could not diagnose anyone through email.

But I have had asthma since childhood and the symptoms are very alike.

This is why I have dug up some information on how to make life easier

when the winter comes and the air gets more dry and harder to breath.

   So, usually when the weather got colder (and more dry) my breathing

got harder and phlegm started to form. I would also lose my breath very

easily. (Both symptoms very typical of the type of asthma I have.) The

doctors would prescribe this and that to open up the lungs and add some

cortisone (or corticosteroid) inhalations to "heal" the infected lungs.

(That's what asthma basically is; a tendency for a chronic infection in

the lungs, which causes spasms. Excuse me for not knowing the proper

medical terms in English.) The symptoms would go away for the time.

   When I started to go towards herbal medicine with my problems, these

came to my help: when the going gets tough (and as long as the going

stays tough), I took Ginkgo extract <>30 drops three times a day and

mullein tea <>3 times a day (a couple of teaspoons infused for 15

minutes). Ginkgo does lots of things and is a traditional treatment to

asthma in Chinese medicine. Mullein soothes the mucous membranes and

also is anti-inflammatory.

   When the flu is around, I have taken echinacea extract 30 drops three

to five times a day. The flu can make a lot of damage to your lungs if

you have asthma. So, I have taken the echinacea as a preventative ie. to

boost the immune system.

   My question is, has your daughter's doctor ruled asthma out? If it's

asthma, I don't see what good could the antibiotics do.

   I hope this information is of some help to your daughter.



-- 

Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi



"After silence, that which comes nearest 

to expressing the inexpressible is music." 

- Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lungs

From: michelle hudson <shell@unnet.com>

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:10:48 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from michelle hudson <shell@unnet.com>:



hello,

i have severe asthma..my 2 boys have asthma also. we get ill quite often.asthma are

often triggered by allergies and strong emotions,such as fear or anxiety.i have

found by allergy testing what we are allergic to..my one son is allergic to almost

all trees and grasses cats, but no food allergies for any of us. as if all that isnt

enough. so we started there to help aleviate the asthma attacks. then of course lots

of vitamins...vit. c is very important, b complex,and i take ginseng, and goldenseal

is used for sinus and upper respitory problems...when you feel it getting harder for

you to breath star with steam treatments..boil water add 10 drops of eucalyptus, 5

drops of camphor..... we still have to use our inhalers but not as much..and cut

back on the steriods... i only have 50% usage of my lungs (when im not sick) and i

have never smoked a day in my life... im the product of second hand smoke .. and a

family history of asthma...... good luck this is a condition research is costantly

being done on....shell



Miikkali Leppihalme wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:

>

> Kat11559@aol.com wrote:

> >

> > My daughter Anne has been having lung and throat problems that start about

> > this time of year ... every year since she was a child.  She is 17 now and

> > last night was the onset of the first of what is normally an antibiotic filled

> > fall season.  She is rattling in her chest and spitting up yellowish phlegm.

> > Can I please have some suggestions?

>

> I am not an MD and if I was, I could not diagnose anyone through email.

> But I have had asthma since childhood and the symptoms are very alike.

> This is why I have dug up some information on how to make life easier

> when the winter comes and the air gets more dry and harder to breath.

>    So, usually when the weather got colder (and more dry) my breathing

> got harder and phlegm started to form. I would also lose my breath very

> easily. (Both symptoms very typical of the type of asthma I have.) The

> doctors would prescribe this and that to open up the lungs and add some

> cortisone (or corticosteroid) inhalations to "heal" the infected lungs.

> (That's what asthma basically is; a tendency for a chronic infection in

> the lungs, which causes spasms. Excuse me for not knowing the proper

> medical terms in English.) The symptoms would go away for the time.

>    When I started to go towards herbal medicine with my problems, these

> came to my help: when the going gets tough (and as long as the going

> stays tough), I took Ginkgo extract <>30 drops three times a day and

> mullein tea <>3 times a day (a couple of teaspoons infused for 15

> minutes). Ginkgo does lots of things and is a traditional treatment to

> asthma in Chinese medicine. Mullein soothes the mucous membranes and

> also is anti-inflammatory.

>    When the flu is around, I have taken echinacea extract 30 drops three

> to five times a day. The flu can make a lot of damage to your lungs if

> you have asthma. So, I have taken the echinacea as a preventative ie. to

> boost the immune system.

>    My question is, has your daughter's doctor ruled asthma out? If it's

> asthma, I don't see what good could the antibiotics do.

>    I hope this information is of some help to your daughter.

>

> --

> Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi

>

> "After silence, that which comes nearest

> to expressing the inexpressible is music."

> - Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lungs

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:13:34 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



A

>> > My daughter Anne has been having lung and throat problems that start

about

>> > this time of year ... every year since she was a child.  She is 17 now

and

>> > last night was the onset of the first of what is normally an

antibiotic filled

>> > fall season.  She is rattling in her chest and spitting up yellowish

phlegm.

>> > Can I please have some suggestions?

>>

>> 

This recurring problem indicates weakness of the lungs.  I was getting this

same deal for several years but avoided antibiotics with herbal treatments

but I didn't find any real help until I went to see a Chinese herbalist who

gave me a correct prescription to get rid of the dampness and heat in my

lungs.  She also gave me an herbal combination to increase my immune

system.  A good all around Chinese remedy to give at the onset of illness

is GAN MAO LING.  It is inexpensive and will often nip colds and flu in the

bud.  Another good one for winter illness is ILEX (Qing Yin Bai Du Pian). I

would highly recommend you SEE a Chinese practitioner.  If you can't find

one, e-mail me privately and I'll give you the phone of one who may help

you find one.  You may find a good practitioner by checking the internet

for Schools of Chinese medicine in your area and call them for a referral.

Chinese medicine really shines in the area of chronic and long term

disease.  Long time use of antibiotics causes many problems including

breakdown of the immune system and bringing about a strain of antibiotic

resistant bacteria.  There is a better way.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lungs

From: Kat11559@aol.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:09:15 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:



Thank you so much for your kind response.  No, the doctors have not ruled out

asthma, in fact she had it as a child.  We will look at this route.



Thanks and God bless,



Kathrine





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lungs

From: Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 11:43:33 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:



Kat11559@aol.com wrote:

> 

> No, the doctors have not ruled out asthma, in fact she had it 

> as a child.  



If it gives you any comfort, statistically speaking childhood asthma is

more likely to go away with time than adulthood asthma. In fact, the

earlier in the childhood asthma occurs, the more likely it is to go away

and never show up again. Adulthood asthma is a whole different thing. It

does not go away. With proper treatment the symptoms may step aside for

awhile, but they will come again given the suitable circumstances. This

is why I think of asthma as a tendency rather than an illness, because

illness is something that can be cured. (Of course we may understand the

word differently.)

   In modern medicine, asthma treatment is solely treatment of symptoms

and not the cause. This is because it is not yet well known what causes

asthma. So, most herbalists also seem to suggest herbs that treat the

symptoms, such as mullein and thyme and other anti-inflammatories and

antispasmodics.

   I feel this thread is gliding off-topic. Consider responding

off-list.



-- 

Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi



"After silence, that which comes nearest 

to expressing the inexpressible is music." 

- Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lungs

From: oinonenehren@macalester.edu

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:37:11 -0500 (CDT)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oinonenehren@macalester.edu:



Has Anne been checked for allergies?  I'm not sure what region you are

writing from, but in Minnesota "this time of year" is ragweed and mold

season, both very common allergens.  Plus, "this time of year" is

frequently when people shut up their houses for the winter, which can

concentrate indoor allergens (dust, mold, pet dander, etc.).  For chest

congestion I love pleursy root (well, I don't LOVE it, it tastes wretched,

but it works really well) also mullein and horehound.  I have been taking

a combination tincture that really helps clear up that sticky, foggy

feeling in my chest.  But these are pretty much aimed at clearing phlem,

which is important if you want to avoid infections, but you want to get at

the cause of the situation, and if allergies are it, you need to eliminate

them at the source.  For instance: if it happens mold is a problem, you

will want to eliminate mold indoors for the winter, which will involve

chasing down anything that boosts your humidity (like dryers vented to the

inside, unvented bathrooms and kitchens, damp basements, etc.) and

eliminating bad mold habits, like leaving wet towels around in the

bathroom, or wet clothes in the hamper.  But this is only an example.  You

need to find out what, if anything, she's allergic to.  I was amazed at

how much I could effect my symptoms just by making a few changes that my

allergist recommended. You don't have to live in a bubble, you just need

to decrease your total allergen "load" and symptoms will decrease. 

Good Luck, 

Contact me privately if you would like tips on how to lighten your

households total allergen load.  No commercial interest in anything, I

just don't want to take up a lot of time on the herblist on things that

aren't primarily herbal.

Chris OE

oinonenehren@macalester.edu



On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 Kat11559@aol.com wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:

> 

> To all,

> 

> My daughter Anne has been having lung and throat problems that start about

> this time of year ... every year since she was a child.  She is 17 now and

> last night was the onset of the first of what is normally an antibiotic filled

> fall season.  She is rattling in her chest and spitting up yellowish phlegm.

> Can I please have some suggestions?

> 

> Thank you 

> 

> Kathrine

> >^..^<

> 







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: looking for information

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:35:24 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Elfreem@aol.com:



KarmaLake@aol.com writes:



>  Hi,

>  I hope this was appropriate to respond to the list and not a personal

email.

>  I found a little on the first herb/plant you asked about. Hope this

>  information helps.

>  Karma

>  Urtica dioica 

>  <Picture>Urtica urens 

>  <Picture>Stinging Nettle

>  

>  PARTS USUALLY USED: Root and leaves

>  

>  MEDICINAL PROPERTIES: Nettles contain iron, sulphor, potassium and sodium.

>  Excellent for kidney trouble. They expel bladder stones. <snip>



I'm writing an article on remedies for relieving kidney stones. Are any other

herbs known for this? thanx



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh, Managing Editor

Herb Nutrition Newsletter/Midwest Shared Newsletter 

Member, Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: looking for information

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:04:30 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from NEHrbSup@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/3/98 8:37:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, Elfreem@AOL.COM

writes:



> I'm writing an article on remedies for relieving kidney stones. Are any

other

>  herbs known for this? thanx

 Elliott,



Gravel Root (eupatorium purpureum) and Stone Root (Collinsonia canadensis) are

both wonderful herbs for kidney stones as well as erethritis and cystitis

Stone root is a reasonably strong diuretic which will help in the "process" of

expelling and passing the stones.  A note of caution - when attempting to

dislodge or pass stones and gravel from the kidney, the process always has

some level of pain associated with it which can be made worse by not preparing

the urinary tract properly.  Pain can be significantly reduced by starting

first with a cup marshmallow leaf tea (Althea officinalis) (not root or

Fluff), drunk three or four times a day (assuming of course you have a choice

and are not writhing on the floor with a stone stuck somewhere between the

kidney and bladder).  Marshmallow leaf is a demulcent and emollient and mild

diuretic as well so that it will soothe the irritated tract and make it easier

to pass the stone(s). 

peter    





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: kidney stone dissolvers

From: miriam kresh <miriam_k@NETVISION.NET.IL>

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 23:18:02 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from miriam kresh <miriam_k@netvision.net.il>:







Elfreem@aol.com wrote:



> I'm writing an article on remedies for relieving kidney stones. Are any other

> herbs known for this? thanx



A combination of cornsilk, parsley leaves and celery stalk, simmered for 20

minutes and left overnight, should be taken first thing in the morning. This

diuretic has shaken loose gravel and small stones in several friends of mine, who

were able then to excrete this and avoid surgery.



Coffee husks, boiled for 10 minutes and then treated the same way, are said to be

excellent for dissolving kidney stones.



Pellitory of the wall has an ancient tradition attached to it which says that as

a tincture or infusion, it will do the trick. I have no experience with pellitory

of the wall internally, except as a diuretic. However, it is worth noting that a

disproportionate number of people are allergic to it, and so its demulcent,

diuretic properties may not always be available. Myself, I gather it from spring

till mid-summer, when its leaves are big , and throw a sprig or two into whatever

tea I'm making.



Miriam Kresh

miriam_k@netvision.net.il







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Req: Herbal Body Wash Recipe

From: paf@connix.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:59:10 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from paf@connix.com:



If anyone on the list has information re: a mild all-natural or herbal body

wash formula, I'd appreciate receiving it.

-AnitaL.





--



paf@connix.com









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: UTI

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:28:56 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



I asked this on another mailing list and didn't get a very good response, so I

am hoping someone out there knows more. :)



I have a friend who wrote me the following:



>>I wonder what your herbal books have to say about herbal remies that will

help a uninary tract infection (UTI)......I've had one and taken medicine for

it.....it helped some but I think it's back and really want to know how to

prevent these darn things...I know about drinking lots of water and also

cranberry juice...but maybe there is more that I can do.  Thank you for your

help<<



Any suggestions?





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: UTI

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:27:28 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 1

>

>> To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:

>>

>> I asked this on another mailing list and didn't get a very good

response, so I

>> am hoping someone out there knows more. :)

>>

>> I have a friend who wrote me the following:

>>

>> >>I wonder what your herbal books have to say about herbal remies that will

>> help a uninary tract infection (UTI)......I've had one and taken

medicine for

>> it.....it helped some but I think it's back and really want to know how to

>> prevent these darn things...I know about drinking lots of water and also

>> cranberry juice...but maybe there is more that I can do.  Thank you for

your

>> help<<

>>

>> Any suggestions?

>

>

>

>

Avoid sugar, so if you use cranberry juice, get it with no sugar added.

Also, plain old tea, green or black will help.  Good for UTI and for Kidney

problems.  Years ago my mother was told by an MD to drink a cup of tea 3

times a day to help with her chronic kidney trouble.  It was very effective

and kept her out of the hospital.  Cheap and simple.





==========

To: HERB@MyList.net

Subject: re: UTI

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:13:38 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Elfreem@aol.com:



Jamie wrote:

>Thanks for all the advice I got regarding my friend with Lymphoma.  Now I

>have a question about myself.  I get a bladder infection by taking a bath

>w/bubbles, oils, etc.  (I've never tried essential oils though).  I also

>get bladder infections by having sex.

>Everytime my husband and I are intimate I take a "Keflex"--500 mg.  to

>prevent a bladder infection.  This is driving me crazy and making me scared

>now that I know I'm probably hurting my body by taking it.

>I do all the standards.........drink lots of water & urinate right after

>sex but it doesn't help.

>I sure would appreciate any advice you could give me to deal with this in a

>healthier way.



The UTI infection may be coming from the vaginal flora.  I've heard of using

garlic 

as a vaginal suppository, but I don't recall the directions. Can anyone advise

Jamie on this? Meanwhile I'll try to find the reference. --Elliot Freeman





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: UTI

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:19:52 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:13:38 EST, Elfreem@aol.com wrote to HERB@MyList.net:



>The UTI infection may be coming from the vaginal flora.  I've heard of using garlic 

>as a vaginal suppository, but I don't recall the directions. Can anyone advise



Um. You -don't- want to use garlic as a vaginal suppository. You don't even want

it on your skin without oiling your skin first, for longer than, say, 10

minutes. Your skin is fairly more resistant than vaginal membranes... and garlic

will blister that very fast. Painfully so.



The UTI described sounds like something insidious; it probably won't budge with

external stuff, what with all those antibiotics, too. A full evaluation would be

better, with diet changes, lifestyle changes, herbs specific to Jamie ... the

works. A visit to a professional, in other words.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: "herblist" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: UTI

From: "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:53:43 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>:



On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:13:38 EST, Elfreem@aol.com wrote to HERB@MyList.net:



>The UTI infection may be coming from the vaginal flora.  I've heard of

using garlic

>as a vaginal suppository, but I don't recall the directions. Can anyone

advise



To use as a suppository, peel and wash a large clove of Garlic, make several

small cuts or slits in the clove (start with few to none, and work up on

subsequent  days).  Insert in the evening and leave in up to 24 hours, then

replace.  You may experience a slight tingling sensation for a short while

after insertion, but nothing major.



These instructions are basically that given by Richard Schulze.  I have used

them myself with good effect.  BTW, Dr. Schulze does indeed talk a great

deal about sex and how to improve it herbally.  I can also attest to the

effectiveness of these formulas.



Marie Winston

b.winston@worldnet.att.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Lymphoma

From: jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel)

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:46:01 -0800 (PST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):



Hi--I have a friend who was just diagnosed with lymphoma.  The doc told her

that she would have to have chemo and radiation.  I know that really makes

a person weak as well as causes nausea.

Can anyone give me some advice that I can pass on to her.............for

the problems she's going to experience?

Best Regards, Jamie



QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)



"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

of our friends. "

       - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968) 









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lymphoma

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:30:31 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



She might consider having surgery but NOT chemotherapy.



Heavy use of alteratives with measured doses of phytolacca, 



After, but not before, radiation, miso soup and seaweed are good for

rebalancing

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment in the modality of

your choice.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton.



On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:46:01 -0800 (PST) jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel)

writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):

>

>Hi--I have a friend who was just diagnosed with lymphoma.  The doc 

>told her

>that she would have to have chemo and radiation.  I know that really 

>makes

>a person weak as well as causes nausea.

>Can anyone give me some advice that I can pass on to 

>her.............for

>the problems she's going to experience?

___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lymphoma

From: aliceann or scott carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 06:06:14 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from aliceann or scott carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



I would be cautious about advising or suggesting against chemotherapy for

any cancers which have repeatedly demonstarted a positive outcome to this

very depleting but also lifesaving treatment.  This is particularly the

case with lymphoma, which as its name indicates, affects the lymph system.

The lymph network is widespread as you probably know.  To treat just an

affected node (or nodes) surgically is not a means to stop a recurrence in

other nodes.  



I have a long time friend who developed non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma in her

twenties.  She was staged as having widespread disease and had little hope

of doing much in treatment except palliation.  She is now in her forties

having undergone every harsh and experimental chemo treatment then known.

Her willingness to do this has markedly contributed to the refinement of

the chemo protocols for lymphoma.  She has had many years free from the

need for treatment, and many years on a chemo protocol--much more tolerable

than her original course.  She works professionally with a surgeon who also

practices ayurvedic medicine.  The ayurvedic approach has alleviated much

of the tissue damage caused by her original treatment many years ago. So,

in a long winded way, I would support your friend's decisions to

participate in treatment and to use herbs adjunctively to support body

tissues as they react to treatment. 



By the way, the new chemo treatments for many cancers--lymphoma

included--do not absolutely mean loss of hair and nausea.  Additionally,

much has been done in managing side effects of chemo in recent years.

Local support groups as well as the nurses who work with cancer patients

can really help in providing an easier ride through this treament period,

Simple tips like eating crushed ice prior to food to ease mouth ulcer pain,

and making sure food isn't too hot when eaten are examples.  Honoring the

need to rest frequently without feeling like you should be able to "keep up

with everyone else" is critically important to rebuild tissues and, by the

way, to prevent or minimize side effects.  Support groups are a place where

it's ok to talk about these things and to get some good ideas as well.



Good luck in helping your friend.









At 11:30 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:

>

>She might consider having surgery but NOT chemotherapy.

>

>Heavy use of alteratives with measured doses of phytolacca, 

>

>After, but not before, radiation, miso soup and seaweed are good for

>rebalancing

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com

>***************************************

>Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment in the modality of

>your choice.

>Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

>seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

>Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

>cotton.

>

>On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:46:01 -0800 (PST) jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel)

>writes:

>>To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):

>>

>>Hi--I have a friend who was just diagnosed with lymphoma.  The doc 

>>told her

>>that she would have to have chemo and radiation.  I know that really 

>>makes

>>a person weak as well as causes nausea.

>>Can anyone give me some advice that I can pass on to 

>>her.............for

>>the problems she's going to experience?

>___________________________________________________________________

>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

>

>



Please feel free to visit us at our "Homes on the Web"....



	Scott:  http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  LOTS of new photos

posted on 22 October!  Click on "New photos" link in intro paragraph!

Further updated on 27 October.



	Aliceann:  http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/ (updated March

11, 1998).  MAJOR, EXCITING  revision in progress... we'll keep you posted!!







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lymphoma

From: Ingrid Kast Fuller <ingrid@cityscope.net>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 06:13:39 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Ingrid Kast Fuller <ingrid@cityscope.net>:



Jamie....

   I believe that chemo and radiation is NOT the answer but that's all

the doctors are going to give you for Lymphoma.  Take this seriously as

I lost my nephew at 26 to Lymphoma/Hodgkin's disease.  The first time he

went into remission for quite a while, but didn't watch what he ate,

etc...    I'm NOT a doctor, but I believe that there are other ways to

cure or stop cancers.  Do as much research and LOOK ELSEWHERE besides

the USA for answers. If I were the one with the Lymphoma, I would see

what vitamins to take and what herbs to help, drink ALOT of water, eat

the GOOD foods, not snacks....

getting my body healthy would be FIRST priority. I would STOP ANY and

ALL bad habits

and exercise daily.



Just my 2 cents worth!   Sorry if I alarm you or your friend, I just

hate to see people just take what the doctors say.  Maybe you'll need to

do both, the chemo and the herbs/vitamins, etc...  If your friend ever

gets nausea, ask for Marijuana pills from the doctor (my nephew used it

to make him eat and stop nausea).



Jamie Kiesel wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):

> 

> Hi--I have a friend who was just diagnosed with lymphoma.  The doc told her

> that she would have to have chemo and radiation.  I know that really makes

> a person weak as well as causes nausea.

> Can anyone give me some advice that I can pass on to her.............for

> the problems she's going to experience?

> Best Regards, Jamie

> 

> QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)

> 

> "In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

> of our friends. "

>        - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)



-- 

***********************************************************

  Ingrid Kast Fuller              (ingrid@cityscope.net)

CityScope Computer Services          Since 1984

 CityScope Net (http://www.cityscope.net) 1(713)477-6161  

      109 West Southmore, Pasadena, TX 77502-1001  

***********************************************************





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lymphoma

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:52:48 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



If you take herbs that protect you against radiation before the radiation

treatment it will be less effective.  If you choose to go the radiation

route, make the most of it and then use the herbs and miso to recover.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/usda.htm



On Wed, 04 Nov 1998 08:10:52 -0800 Aileen Alexander-Harding

<grnhart@home.com> writes:

>Karen,

>Just wonderring, WHY after and NOT before?

><snip> 

>> After, but not before, radiation, miso soup and seaweed are good for

>> rebalancing <snip>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Oatstraw & peppermint teas

From: natural <natural@wt.net>

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:54:05 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from natural <natural@wt.net>:



Thomas:



My client is still drinking her 12 cups plus a liquid each evening without the

peppermint and has no urinary incontinence problems.



Ironically she didn't believe the solution would be so simple to just eliminate

the peppermint, drank the usual peppermint tea for 2 nights and symptoms

returned.  Stopped the peppermint, and symptoms alleviated.



Rosie

Back to Nature



> To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

> In response to natural@wt.net:

>

> Drinking 12 cups peppermint tea between dinner and bedtime is an awful lot,

> and it must go to the bladder.  Very likely the urinary incontinence problem

> was caused not by the peppermint as such but by all that water.

>

> Thomas Mueller

> tmueller@bluegrass.net







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Oatstraw & peppermint teas

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:13:00 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Rosie/Back to Nature:



12 cups of liquid seems like an awful lot for a whole day, let alone just an

evening.  It wouldn't go through me fast enough, even in July!  How much

peppermint was in the tea?  Can your client tolerate more modest dose of 

peppermint, or is peppermint off her list?  For me, it seems none of the

Lamiaceae (mint family) herbs have appreciable effect, though none have ever

harmed me.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Oatstraw & peppermint teas

From: natural <natural@wt.net>

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 23:10:44 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from natural <natural@wt.net>:



Hi Tomas:



This really is an interesting case and the "cure" too simply for the client and

herbalist.



I asked her how much peppermint in the 12 cups.  her best guess between 1-1 1/2

cups dried.  For the time being peppermint is totally off her list as she is

quite pleased with the results.  Her urinary incontinence was so severe she

could not control the flow; said at times she'd be standing and lost total

control; both in private and public.  M.D's could not diagnose cause; hence she

came to me.  She likes the taste of peppermint but is more than willing to give

it up.  We are now working on reducing the 12 cups of liquid during the evening.



Out of curiosity I'd like her to challenge some of the other mints; don't know

if she is willing and if I should put her in such a position for my own

curiosity.



Any suggestions on this?



Rosie

Back to Nature



> To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

> Rosie/Back to Nature:

>

> 12 cups of liquid seems like an awful lot for a whole day, let alone just an

> evening.  It wouldn't go through me fast enough, even in July!  How much

> peppermint was in the tea?  Can your client tolerate more modest dose of

> peppermint, or is peppermint off her list?  For me, it seems none of the

> Lamiaceae (mint family) herbs have appreciable effect, though none have ever

> harmed me.

>

> Thomas Mueller

> tmueller@bluegrass.net







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Oatstraw & peppermint teas

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:53:13 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Rosie/Back to Nature:



Why does your client take 12 cups liquid during the evening, and why should

reducing the 12 cups be work?



I know peppermint contains menthol but don't know what specific constituent

causes your client's urinary incontinence.  If you or your client can find any

ground ivy (Glechoma hederacea, family Lamiaceae), she might try eating a few 

leaves.  Otherwise, if she thinks she might have a use for a non-peppermint

Lamiaceae herb, she might try cautiously.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lymphoma (long)

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:57:59 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Sorry, my post on lymphoma was sent out before it was completed.



She might consider having surgery but NOT chemotherapy. In Germany 

statistical evaluations showed only a 1% effectiveness in childhood

leukemias and lymphomas. (However it does seem effective against acute

lymphoblastic leukemia and testicular cancer). The cytotoxic protocol

used for childhood leukemias is vincristine from the Madigascar

periwinkle.   All other cancers were found not actually to respond as

claimed to chemo.  German doctors have searched for alternatives to

chemo, (but nothing is officially recommended in place of chemo there.) 



The 1% rate is sufficiently low enough to consider herbal protocols

instead- and even if some lymphomas respond to chemo, other methods may

be as useful. To decide this, there is probably no better book on the

market than Ralph Moss's _Questioning Chemotherapy_ (nci).  Moss,  a

former  PR person for Memorial Sloan-Kettering,goes into each protocol

for each type of cancer and gives chapter and verse for each.  After

this, patients have more info than they are ever likely to receive from

their oncologists -- and they should be able to make informed decisions.



Intensive chemotherapy is known to cause changes in the proteins which

regulate the blood's tendency to coagulate and may increase the risk of

thrombosis (stroke and heart attack).  Vitamin K is phylloquinone derived

from leafy greens or menaquinone made by probiotics in the gut.  (Eat

herbs and other greens and keep your probiotics up with live, fermented

foods.) Medical doctors at London's Guy's Hospital believe that the

stress of chemotherapy affects the intestinal absorption of vitamin K and

interferes with its synthesis in the liver; resulting in a vitamin K

deficiency which in turn leads to abnormalities in blood coagulant

factors.  If chemo is used,  the resulting vitamin K deficiency can be

prevented by a weekly injection of 10 mg of vitamin K. (Elston, T.N., et

al.  Vitamin K prophylaxis in high-dose chemotherapy.  The Lancet, Vol.

345, May 13, 1995, p. 1245)



Michael Tierra suggested persuading a doctor or nurse to administer an

injection of B12 distributed into acupuncture points, stomach 36, spleen

6 and CV 6 or 4. He thinks B12 injection after chemotherapy should be

standard procedure and that injecting them into the acupuncture points is

10 times more effective for fatigue and debilitating effects of chemo

than intramuscular injections.  Obviously this requires a trained

professional who will learn the acupuncture points. 



Food and herbs after chemo would include Tan quai gin (Tan kwei/Dong Quai

).  The Tan kwei gin is a nonalcoholic patent medicine syrup made with

Chinese angelica, found in Chinese herbal and grocery stores.  Rice,

aduki and soy bean congee (a cooked rice soup with beans) made with

astragalus, codonopsis, dang quai, rehmannia and ophiopogon are

traditionally recommended foods.  I personally have not had occasion to

monitor someone on this, but check Michael Tierra's books and web site

for suggestions and recipes. 



Heavy use of alteratives with measured doses of phytolacca, echinacea and

other herbs are helpful.  FOr a comprehensive overview I suggest you read

Ingrid Naiman's book, Cancer Salves, which is not only on cancer salves. 

Her web sites have herbal formulas and comprehensive information. 

www.cancersalves.com



Radiation is also contraversial. If she goes that route, there are herbal

moderating treatments.   After, but not before, radiation, miso soup and

seaweed are good for rebalancing.  Radiated areas can be massaged with

St. John's wort oil and internal SJW and echinacea can help.



However, according to the study published in the 7/98 issue of The

Lancet, a British medical journal, lung cancer patients who had been

treated with radiation therapy after surgery were 21 percent more likely

to die than those who only had surgery. Researchers are unsure why

radiation therapy caused more deaths earlier.  This may or may not be

applicable to lymphoma but bears more study.



And don't forget psychological and spiritual supports.  Cancer is not a

simple disease and the psychological and spiritual components are very

important pilars of treatment.  It is too easy for patients to lose sight

of how important these supports are when they suffer from disease and

treatment-induced depressions.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.  



Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/usda.html



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Children's chest rub

From: Danaroma@aol.com

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:03:44 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Danaroma@aol.com:



I want to make a children's chest rub salve for some nieces and nephews.  

To be used for colds, flu and congestion.  

Any and all recipes and ideas will be much appreciated.

How many drops of EO per ounce can safely be added for children?

Which EOs are safe for this?



Thanks,

Dan





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Children's chest rub

From: TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:38:25 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>:



>I want to make a children's chest rub salve for some nieces and nephews.  



Dan, I have this recipe; I assume its safe for kids; the wintergreen eo is

the only thing that might be iffy. I have seen several that say Wintergreen

is dangeorous to use????????? So you might leave that out.



Eucalyptus Salve / Chest Rub 

30 drops Eucalyptus essential oil 

40 drops Camphor essential oil 

15 drops Wintergreen essential oil 

1 ounce Olive Oil 

1/2 teaspoon Beeswax 



Melt the beeswax in the olive oil. Remove from heat and add the essential

oils. Stir, pour into salve container and label.



Eucalyptus salve is used to relieve respiratory congestion.



   

   BackWoods Herbals  ICQ#: 780196

   http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/4029/ (personal page)

   http://www.angelfire.com/nj/soapnewbies/index.html SN FAQ





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Children's chest rub

From: Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:07:35 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com>:



At 04:38 PM 11/4/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>:

>

>>I want to make a children's chest rub salve for some nieces and nephews.  

>

>Dan, I have this recipe; I assume its safe for kids; the wintergreen eo is

>the only thing that might be iffy. I have seen several that say Wintergreen

>is dangeorous to use????????? So you might leave that out.

>

>Eucalyptus Salve / Chest Rub 

>30 drops Eucalyptus essential oil 

>40 drops Camphor essential oil 

>15 drops Wintergreen essential oil 

>1 ounce Olive Oil 

>1/2 teaspoon Beeswax 

>

>Melt the beeswax in the olive oil. Remove from heat and add the essential

>oils. Stir, pour into salve container and label.

>

>Eucalyptus salve is used to relieve respiratory congestion.





Hello All,



An assumption that these essential oils are safe for kids would be

erroneous.  Good aromatherapy practice would allow that the only essential

oils safe for infants and toddlers (under 3) would be Lavender (L.

officinalis) and Roman Chamomile (Anthemis nobilis), and certainly not in

the strong dilution in your recipe.  Never use more than a 5-7% dilution

for infants and toddlers.  Actually, the hydrolats are even safer for the

wee ones.   For children   4 - 7, you could add Eucalyptus, and never more

than a 10-15% dilution of all essential oils added.    E. radiata is

preferable to E. globulus for those (including adults) who have asthma.  E.

globulus is the most common one available and can (not always) trigger an

asthmatic attack.  There are many other Eucalyptus available, so be sure of

your source.  Make sure that the bottle is labeled with the common name and

the botanical name.  Your supplier should be able to tell you the country

of origin and the chemotype, also.  This is one way you can be assured of

getting pure, aromatherapy grade essential oils.



Camphor essential oil is rarely recommended by trained aromatherapists, and

it is widely overused in over the counter products.  It is one of the

essential oils easily synthesized, and chances of your finding the pure

essential oil are slim.  Likewise wintergreen.  Best to steer clear of

both.  The adulterated oils can be very toxic.



Essential oils are very concentrated plant medicinals and less is

definitely better.  You will see that the following recipes are much more

diluted than your recommendation, however, they are very effective.



Some recipes for the cold and flu season that might be helpful:  



To loosen mucus, pulmonary antiseptic:

	4 cups hot water in glass bowl

	add:

	1 drop Eucalyptus essential oil

	1 drop Lemon essential oil

	1 drop Sandalwood essential oil

Hold head, tented with towel, about 8 inches above bowl.  Breathe slowly

and deeply with eyes closed for about 5 to 10 minutes, three times a day.

Pat face and neck area dry following treatment and wrap scarf or towel

around neck or wear warm turtleneck sweater to prevent chilling.  



Chest Treatment oil I (For brochitis, moist cough)

1 oz. vegetable oil

10 drops Eucalyptus essential oil

5 drops Hyssop essential oil

3 drops Peppermint essential oil

2 drops Cedarwood essential oil

Massage chest and back (down and out under the arms for back, and circular

motion on either side of chest coming up center and down outside)  This

encourages lymphatic drainage and will help draw out fever and reduce lung

congestion.



Chest Treatment oil II (for bronchitis, dry, non-productive cough)

1 oz. vegetable oil

10 drops Eucalyptus essential oil

5 drops Hyssop essential oil

3 drops Bergamot essential oil

2 drops Sandalwood essential oil

Same massage technique as above.



One of the best books is Valerie Gennari Cooksley's Aromatherapy: A

Lifetime Guide to Healing with Essential Oils.  Valerie is a RN and one of

the first in the medical field to introduce and use aromatherapy in a

hospital setting here in the US.  Her no-nonsense, informative and

practical advise is indispensable for anyone interested in using essential

oils for self-care and prevention.  The book is also a great value for the

$.  You'll find the above recommendations, as well as much more on the

subject of kids and colds/flu.



Be well,

 







     



Marcia Elston**Samara Botane/Herbal Indulgence**Seattle, WA

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

Agora pages I host:

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/taxonomy.htm

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/distillation.htm





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Children's chest rub

From: TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:49:49 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>:



>An assumption that these essential oils are safe for kids would be

>erroneous.  



Thanks, always open to new thoughts. ;-) Was given the other recipe by

someone who said they were a certified aromatherapist. So how do we

know???????? Your recipe sounds safer and I like the amounts.

June

   

   BackWoods Herbals  ICQ#: 780196

   http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/4029/ (personal page)

   http://www.angelfire.com/nj/soapnewbies/index.html SN FAQ





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Children's chest rub

From: Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:35:59 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com>:



At 08:49 PM 11/4/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>:

>

>>An assumption that these essential oils are safe for kids would be

>>erroneous.  

>

>Thanks, always open to new thoughts. ;-) Was given the other recipe by

>someone who said they were a certified aromatherapist. So how do we

>know???????? Your recipe sounds safer and I like the amounts.

>June





Good question, June.  Aromatherapy is very new to the US, and while

generally following the European model, there is also expanded development

involving accupuncture with essential oils on the needles, massage using eo

application on TCM meridians, as well as the integrative practice and

prescribed internal use fast on the rise in the medical community.

Aromatherapy can also be safely practiced by the layperson, provided they

are educated.  It can be very confusing and we will no doubt see essential

oils used in the context of many different healing modalities in the future.



There is no such thing as a certified or registered aromatherapist in this

country at the moment.  There are very good schools from which you can

obtain a certificate for several levels of study, but aromatherapy is not

even recognized yet as a healing modality.   There are also a lot of

shysters and multi-level-marketing companies who promote a lot of hype and

even dangerous usages.  Because essential oils are considered G.R.A.S.

(Generally Regarded As Safe-as appropriate for the trade in the food and

flavor industry), many people do not realize that some are very toxic and

dangerous.  Many simply have no therapeutic benefits whatsoever.



For those who want more information, there is a nonprofit membership

organization dedicated to aromatherapy education, the National Association

for Holistic Aromatherapy.  Website can be found at http://www.naha.org

There are a number of good journals published.  The International Journal

of Aromatherapy is very good, and NAHA publishes it's quarterly journal,

Scensitivity.  Pam Parson's Aromatic Thymes is a good magazine for the

layperson.  The American Association of Aromatherapy also publishes good

current information and supports aromatherapy education.  Also, there are

two aromatherapy mailing lists.  One can be joined by posting list@idma.com

with "join aromatherapy" in the body of your post.  The other is at

essentials@naturesgift.com, and can be joined with "subscribe" in the body

of your post.



A number of aromatherapists worldwide (me, included) are developing a

noncommercial website dedicated to aromatherapy information, called AGORA.

You can get to the main working draft of topics through the pages I host

below.



Hope this helps.



Be well,   

 

Marcia Elston**Samara Botane/Herbal Indulgence**Seattle, WA

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

Agora pages I host:

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/taxonomy.htm

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/distillation.htm







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Children's chest rub

From: TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:39:43 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>:



YEs, it does; and I thank you for taking the time to explain all of this. I

am a soap and toiletry maker. I joined all these lists (including the

essential oils, herbs ect) so I   could learn the rights and wrongs. I try

to back this up with books and research. I do want to put out a healthy

product. I appreciate being told that a recipe is wrong and why. This is

how I learn. I don't plan on becoming a aromatherapist or herbalist

(although I would like to take one of those home study herb courses). BUT I

do need and have the desire to know my products. I mainly use dried and

infused herbs and a few essential oils (lavender; peppermint). For my own

family and my health I do use all natural products; mainly the herbs that I

grow myself. So I like to learn in this area too.

Will definently check out the websites you sent me. Thank you again for

your time. ;-)

June 





>Hope this helps.

>

>Be well,   

> 

>Marcia Elston**Samara Botane/Herbal Indulgence**Seattle, WA

>http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

>Agora pages I host:

>http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/taxonomy.htm

>http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/distillation.htm

>

>

>

   

   BackWoods Herbals  ICQ#: 780196

   http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/4029/ (personal page)

   http://www.angelfire.com/nj/soapnewbies/index.html SN FAQ





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Children's chest rub

From: herbalkat@juno.com

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:18:56 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from herbalkat@juno.com:





Hi guys,



Can anyone recommend a company in the U.S. that sells tinctures of

Chinese herbs e.g. He Shou Wu?   



If this isn't appropriate to ask on the list, could u reply to me

privately?  Thanks a million:)



Sandy

mailto:herbalkat@juno.com



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Herb Baby

From: jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel)

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:22:46 -0800 (PST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):



I'm just getting into herbs............I know nothing about them at all.

How did you start out?  How do you know you're getting good herbs?  How do

you know the recipes you get are correct?



One of the replies to my earlier message about lymphoma suggested recipes

by Dr. Richard Schulze.  I went to a web page that lists many recipes for

many different ailments.........so my next question would be "how do you

know you're dealing with a reputable medical herbalist."



Please forgive the ignorance, maybe in a few years I'll be able to answer

somebody else's questions.



Thanks so much, Jamie



QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)



"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

of our friends. "

       - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968) 









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herb Baby

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:19:58 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



>...so my next question would be "how do you

>know you're dealing with a reputable medical herbalist."

>



Ah, you have to ask.  David Hoffman, Penelope Ody, Michael Tierra, Paul

Bergner, Amanda McQuade Crawford, Rosemary Gladstar, Susun Weed,

Christopher Hobbs, Simon Mills, Humbert Santillo, Ingrid Naiman, Richard

Schulze, Ann McIntyre, the Christophers and Letha Hadady, to name a few.



British herbalists with MINMH designation have good training.  We don't

have a comprehensive training in the US, but many reputable herbalists

are AHG members.  Credentials alone do not make a superior healer

unfortunately.  You will get to know recommendations as you read,

experiment and learn.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/usda.htm



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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herb Baby

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:15:10 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:22:46 -0800 (PST), jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel) wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>many different ailments.........so my next question would be "how do you

>know you're dealing with a reputable medical herbalist."



There's two answers. 

One, you're trying to find somebody to help you, locally. 



Clinical herbalists will evaluate your current state of health and give you a

formula based on that. You won't be able to purchase that anywhere else, but you

should -not- fall for MLM scams in any herbalists office. If a "herbalist" pulls

out the Noni, or SBGA, or other such, turn around and leave.



Two, you're trying to find out if this here book is any good. Now, you need to

know that there are several schools of herbalism, even within western herbalism.

There's the old "puke and purge" school, which is still represented by Kloss,

Christopher, and Schultze (of whom I have heard nothing good - his marketing

ways are -evil-). If you -like- daily colonics, go for these.



You'll notice that none of the puke and purge folks ever mention sex. You have a

problem with your genitals? In your place I'd go elsewhere, these folks will

tell you to take a high colonic ;)



There's the "it has to be researched for it to work" -school. Include most

herb-oriented ND's in this category.



There's the "I can feel that this herb will help you" -school. Susun Weed, and

Jeannie Rose are among this group.



And then there's down-to earth herbalists, the "if it works, use it" -school.

Among these you'll find Michael Moore, Simon Mills, Rosemary Gladstar, David

Hoffmann ... the list is endless, really.



Completely outside this list of western herbal styles are TCM, Ayurveda, and

other non-western physiology based styles. Michael Tierras books, by the way,

are mainly TCM.



Whatever you do, avoid semi-herbal folks like Varro Tyler. 

(Why, you ask, when the HerbalGram / Herbs for Health / whatever else glossy you

have that's put out by American Botanical Council / The Herb Research Foundation

pushes him something fierce? Read Jonno's review of Tyler's books:

http://www.teleport.com/~jonno and you'll know why no reputable herbalist can

see any value in these "herbal" bestsellers. Tyler-pushing in these mags was so

bad that I didn't renew my subscription. Really. If those guys are bending that

far to accommodate Tyler (and they -should- know better), then what -else- is

slanted, in their writings?)



Avoid also anyone who tries to sell you their supplements. If it's proprietary

it's not herbs. Reputable herbalists, in their books, will tell you to use

-this- plant, or perhaps to combine these herbs into -this- formula. They will

NOT tell you to buy this extraordinarily good supplement - very special price,

just for you my friend ... so avoid eg. Richard Scalzo's books (they're not

info, they're infomercials), but go for Ed Smith's tincture booklets. Great

stuff!



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herb Baby

From: Lori <lja@enteract.com>

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:28:08 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Lori <lja@enteract.com>:



The November issue of Self has a whole section devoted to common herbs and

some info on evaluating quality of commercial brands.



Lori



At 02:22 PM 11/4/98 -0800, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):

>

>I'm just getting into herbs............I know nothing about them at all.

>How did you start out?  How do you know you're getting good herbs?  How do

>you know the recipes you get are correct?

[snip]





==========

To: Herb list <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Mushrooms

From: jfoster <jfoster@ebicom.net>

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:53:15 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from jfoster <jfoster@ebicom.net>:



Ok, I figure Karen will probably pick up on this one, but looking for 

anyone knowledgeable of these little quirks of life. I got some Rieshi in 

the other day and was contemplating the best way to prepare it. I think 

what I choose was some information I had stashed from Micheal Moore. 

Anyway, basically what the instructions said to do was soak the Mushrooms 

in pure alcohol and basically make a tincture. Then take the mark and add 

10 times the wieght  of the original mushrooms and make a tea. After the 

mushrooms simmer for a couple of hours strain off and throw the marc away 

and continue to simmer. You simmer this until the precalculated amount if 

reached and then you add to the strained off alcohol and you have a 30% 

alcohol extract of Reishi. Now my question is this, what I have read is 

that the polysaccharides are destroyed by anything much higher than 30%. So 

when you soak the mushrooms in the everclear before you start the 

decoction, why does that not destroy them?  I am 95% sure this method came 

from Michael Moore, I could be wrong on that though, And I am quite 

confident in his herbal knowledge, am I missing something here? 

          Thanks

John

Jfoster@ebicom.net







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Mushrooms

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:50:22 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



We went around on this on a professional herbalist's list and I suggest

that you use two groups of reishi if you want the polysaccharides.  High

alcohol extracts the terpenes well and apparently other water soluble

constituents come out somewhat better from the marc. But the

polsacchardides seem to come out best from water extractions.  I skip the

alcohol altogether and cook it down for several hours or over night in a

crock pot, then squeeze the marc and reduce.  You can reduce it down to

mushroom "leather" in a food dryer, if you mix it with eleuthero powder

for substance.  Or just to a powdered extract.  Chris Hobbs has

directions in _Medicinal Mushrooms_. 



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/usda.htm



On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:53:15 -0600 jfoster <jfoster@ebicom.net> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from jfoster <jfoster@ebicom.net>:

>

>Ok, I figure Karen will probably pick up on this one, but looking for 

>anyone knowledgeable of these little quirks of life. I got some Reishi 

>in >the other day and was contemplating the best way to prepare it. I 



___________________________________________________________________

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Brain tumor/Nausea

From: Csono@aol.com

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:08:26 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Csono@aol.com:



I have a client that had surgery for a brain tumor, no chemo, but has been

nausiated since the surgery. She said she has tried ginger and a drug for

chemo  called tophryn(sp?) and nothing seems to work. Any suggestions?

Robyn hardgrove

Csono@AOL.COM





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Brain tumor/Nausea

From: Michael Acord <mpacord@concentric.net>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:45:12 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Michael Acord <mpacord@concentric.net>:



Csono@aol.com wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from Csono@aol.com:

> 

> I have a client that had surgery for a brain tumor, no chemo, but has been

> nausiated since the surgery. She said she has tried ginger and a drug for

> chemo  called tophryn(sp?) and nothing seems to work. Any suggestions?

> Robyn hardgrove

> Csono@AOL.COM

The classic answer would be to try Cannabis or acupuncture, both of

which have been shown to be effective for nausea.

	Mike Acord





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Rebuild bone or muscle

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:43:47 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



If a formula, given by David Winston, of two parts horsetail, one part nettles

and one part alfalfa can remineralize bones, what herbs can help rebuild

weakened muscle tissue, in addition to appropriate exercise?



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Rebuild bone or muscle

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:37:05 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:43:47 -0500 tmueller@bluegrass.net writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

>If a formula, given by David Winston, of two parts horsetail, one part

nettles

>and one part alfalfa can remineralize bones, what herbs can help rebuild

>weakened muscle tissue, in addition to appropriate exercise?



Comfrey or calendula, in addition to dietary protein and exercise. 

Gingko might help from a circulatory POV. And flavanoid-rich herbs like

bilberry, pickled beets and berries.



(The usual comfrey cautions apply.)  Comfrey poultices or compresses can

be used for those who will or cannot take it internally.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/usda.htm

___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Rebuild bone or muscle

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:14:48 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:43:47 -0500, tmueller@bluegrass.net wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

>If a formula, given by David Winston, of two parts horsetail, one part nettles

>and one part alfalfa can remineralize bones, what herbs can help rebuild

>weakened muscle tissue, in addition to appropriate exercise?



The same ones. You'll also need to eat proteins...

Rebuilding tissues will always take what's available in the bloodstream first,

and what's available in storage second. If you flood your blood with quality

building materials your new tissue will be strong. If you don't flood it the

quality of your new tissue depends on what's available, and how much of it.



So, mineral teas are very good eg. for recuperation after an illness.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re(2): Children's chest rub

From: sroberts@expression.org (Shirley E. Roberts)

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:23:51 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from sroberts@expression.org (Shirley E. Roberts):



	Some may take exception to this, but I, personally, wouldn't use any

essential oils in salves for children.  I had some wonderful oil of

lavender, and although I had read that you should not use essential oil on

the skin 'neat',  I thought certainly it would be dilute enough if I added

just a few drops of it to my bathwater.  Whew!  Broke out in hives

everywhere below the water line.  Salves made with strong tea are more to

my liking.



>

>   	Shirley



                                                      



                                                     

	There is a myth around I don't dress well.    I dress very well - I just

don't look so good.



		-Barbara Bush, talking to a reporter from the Ladies Home Journal.



                                                       





herb@MyList.net,Internet writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from TXJune <txjune@texoma.net>:

>

>>I want to make a children's chest rub salve for some nieces and nephews.

> 

>

>Dan, I have this recipe; I assume its safe for kids; the wintergreen eo is

>the only thing that might be iffy. I have seen several that say

>Wintergreen

>is dangeorous to use????????? So you might leave that out.

>

>Eucalyptus Salve / Chest Rub 

>30 drops Eucalyptus essential oil 

>40 drops Camphor essential oil 

>15 drops Wintergreen essential oil 

>1 ounce Olive Oil 

>1/2 teaspoon Beeswax 

>

>Melt the beeswax in the olive oil. Remove from heat and add the essential

>oils. Stir, pour into salve container and label.

>











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Herbs for Para-Flu

From: CarolnNY@aol.com

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:37:17 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from CarolnNY@aol.com:



Hi,



I was wondering what anyone would recommend for my next door neighbor who is

just starting to come down with the para-flu virus that has been sweeping

through our region.  The problem with her is the fact she will be in her  9th

month of  pregnancy next week. This virus is a nasty one that seems to linger

on for about 3 to 4 weeks, it  mostly goes back & forth from head to chest.

With her being so pregnant I would really like to hear from others what would

be good for her at this point.  This is her second child, her first one just

turned 1, & she has easy deliveries.



Thanks, 

Carol

CarolnNY@aol.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbs for Para-Flu

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:44:55 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



>I was wondering what anyone would recommend for my next door neighbor 

>who is just starting to come down with the para-flu virus that has been 

>sweeping through our region.  The problem with her is the fact she will

be in 

>her  9th month of  pregnancy next week. 



Echinacea tincture, with the day's 1-2 tsp dose put in a water bottle so

she can sip it all day long, would be good.  She can also take capsules

at night, washed down by the echinacea water, but capsules require much

larger doses.  If she can stomach it (literally, because taste is an

important indicator in a pregnant woman), chopping up a clove of raw

garlic, coating it with thick honey, and swallowing it from the spoon

held upside down (really- but move fast), can really  knock out the

virus.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/usda.htm

___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski)

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:45:02 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski):



In a couple week my daughter will have all four wisdom teeth removed.  

	I will bolster her immune system w/ vit C and ecchinacea and use

herbal wraps post op.

	Does anyone have any other suggestions for promoting healing,

preventing infection and "dry socket"?

	thanks you  Jenny Iris



___________________________________________________________________

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==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net>

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:33:19 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net>:



I had dental surgery last year and experienced dry socket.  Not a pleasant

experience I assure you.  My dentist packed it with gauze saturated in clove

oil.



I understand that clove has been in dentistry for a long while.....



Don't know if it helps, but had to add my two cents....



Wendy

wvardy@bconnex.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 06:05:19 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:33:19 -0500, "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net> wrote to

<herb@MyList.net>:



>I had dental surgery last year and experienced dry socket.  Not a pleasant

>experience I assure you.  My dentist packed it with gauze saturated in clove

>oil.



Clove oil is not a good idea. It's very hard on your stomach, and unless you can

seal it in under things like silly putty (or whatever) you should not keep it in

your mouth. Yes, it'll take care of your toothache, but you'll have problems

with your digestion if you use whole cloves or clove oil for any length of time.



So don't. 



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: "Elizabeth Gessler" <eeyorelove@ivillage.com>

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:34:08 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Elizabeth Gessler" <eeyorelove@ivillage.com>:



I am very new with herbs and I have been just sitting back and learning but this subject has brought me to ask questions.  I also am going to be having my wisdom teeth out in the near future.  I have a TMJ problem which is causing me severe pain. A lot of the problem is the muscle in the jaw and the joint itself.  Is there anything else that I can do to prepare for having the wisdom teeth out or after they are pulled?  I am trying to limit the pain medicine that I'm on but the pain at times is so bad that I feel faint.  I am seeing a wonderful dentist who I really trust and he is helping me so things are much better.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Elizabeth

 P.S. I have really enjoyed learning from you all and as soon as I have some knowledge to share I promise I will.

---

" It's not much of a tail, but I'm sort of attached to it."

  -Eeyore







--

Visit http://www.ivillage.com for your FREE iVillage.com email account.

iVillage.com: The Women's Network -- Real Solutions for Busy Women. 





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:57:01 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 08:34 AM 11/6/98 -0700, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Elizabeth Gessler" <eeyorelove@ivillage.com>:

>

>I am very new with herbs and I have been just sitting back and learning

but this subject has brought me to ask questions.  I also am going to be

having my wisdom teeth out in the near future.  I have a TMJ problem which

is causing me severe pain. A lot of the problem is the muscle in the jaw

and the joint itself.  Is there anything else that I can do to prepare for

having the wisdom teeth out or after they are pulled?  I am trying to limit

the pain medicine that I'm on but the pain at times is so bad that I feel

faint.  I am seeing a wonderful dentist who I really trust and he is

helping me so things are much better.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>

>Elizabeth

> P.S. I have really enjoyed learning from you all and as soon as I have

some knowledge to share I promise I will.

>---

>"

When my daughter had her wisdom teeth extracted I made her a pack of

slippery elm powder, mullein powder and a little capsicum.  I combined the

herb powders sprinkled them on some gauze and rolled it up and had her

place the pack in the cheek next to the extraction site.  It was very

soothing and helped it to heal quickly.  She needed no pain pills for pain.

 There wasn't any.





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:40:28 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>:



  Try Arnica for the pain and if your wisdom teeth are abscessed or

impacted, than you certainly need them extracted bit if not, then may I

suggest, you call around and find a Massage Therapist and or a Chiropractor

who has had certification in treating TMJ problems.  You could save yourself

from needless surgery.



Good Luck,



Aleksanra

jedihands@wwisp.com

>To herb@MyList.net from "Elizabeth Gessler" <eeyorelove@ivillage.com>:

>

>I am very new with herbs and I have been just sitting back and learning but

this subject has brought me to ask questions.  I also am going to be having

my wisdom teeth out in the near future.  I have a TMJ problem which is

causing me severe pain. A lot of the problem is the muscle in the jaw and

the joint itself.  Is there anything else that I can do to prepare for

having the wisdom teeth out or after they are pulled?  I am trying to limit

the pain medicine that I'm on but the pain at times is so bad that I feel

faint.  I am seeing a wonderful dentist who I really trust and he is helping

me so things are much better.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>

>Elizabeth

> P.S. I have really enjoyed learning from you all and as soon as I have

some knowledge to share I promise I will.

>---

>" It's not much of a tail, but I'm sort of attached to it."

>  -Eeyore

>

>

>

>--

>Visit http://www.ivillage.com for your FREE iVillage.com email account.

>iVillage.com: The Women's Network -- Real Solutions for Busy Women.

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: awilloby@enternet.co.nz

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:08:42 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from awilloby@enternet.co.nz:



To:             	herb@MyList.net

Date sent:      	Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:45:02 -0500

Subject:        	Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From:           	j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski)

Send reply to:  	herb@MyList.net



> To herb@MyList.net from j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski):

> 

> In a couple week my daughter will have all four wisdom teeth removed.  

> 	I will bolster her immune system w/ vit C and ecchinacea and use

> herbal wraps post op.

> 	Does anyone have any other suggestions for promoting healing,

> preventing infection and "dry socket"?

> 	thanks you  Jenny Iris



Hi Jenny



Sorry to hear your daughter will be having her wisdom teeth out.  I 

was supposed to have mine out 40 years ago and they are still 

doing fine - I never went back to that dentist.



I was wondering why she was having them out?  Mine were to 

come out because they were impacted, which caused infection.  

Fortunately the detist couldn't take them out while they were 

infected, so sent me to an enlightened doctor (rare in those days) 

who didn't give me antibiotics but suggested I use hydrogen 

peroxide as a mouthwash.  Did this and infection went, along with 

the pain.  No pain, no removal - just used hydrogen peroxide a few 

more times when there was some infection.



I strongly recommend that you try to keep the teeth unless it is 

absolutely essential to remove them.  If it is a space problem, the 

jaw will expand to accommodate them - at least mine did.



Good luck.



Alan Willoughby

Alan Willoughby

PO Box 296, Tauranga, New Zealand

Phone/fax 64 7 5443087





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net>

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:30:20 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net>:



Well Henriette, you have just solved my mystery!  I am in digestive distress

at the moment, anything and everything I eat causes bloating, cramps and

gas.  I am working on restoring the digestive enzymes (antibiotics were

prescribed to fight infection for the same surgery).



I am currently taking a combination of red clover, dandelion, l.acidophilus,

juniper and cascara sagrada bark.



I'd appreciate any advice you have.



TIA



Wendy

wvardy@bconnex.net



Yes, it'll take care of your toothache, but you'll have problems

>with your digestion if you use whole cloves or clove oil for any length of

time.

>









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 07:19:47 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:30:20 -0500, "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net> wrote to

<herb@MyList.net>:

>

>Well Henriette, you have just solved my mystery!  I am in digestive distress

>at the moment, anything and everything I eat causes bloating, cramps and

>gas.  I am working on restoring the digestive enzymes (antibiotics were

>prescribed to fight infection for the same surgery).

>

>I am currently taking a combination of red clover, dandelion, l.acidophilus,

>juniper and cascara sagrada bark.

>

>I'd appreciate any advice you have.



Why juniper? That can be hard on the kidneys.



Do bulk laxatives to soothe your intestinal tract mucous membranes - flax,

psyllium or chia seed in a glass of water ("frog eggs") about once a day, for a

week or so, should do the trick. 



Mallow tea (any Malvaceae, any part) might help too, as would slippery elm, but

slippery elm is a finite resource while mallow isn't so do mallow if you decide

to do slimy teas.



Forget about cascara sagrada unless you have constipation that won't move with

bulk laxatives.



Do bitters about 10-15 minutes before every meal. Bitters, like dandelion, or

gentian, or hops, or ... it'll take a while, so be patient. 



More is not necessarily better, with any herb.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:42:07 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



This isn't herbal, but tooth extraction is probably not going to do much

for the TMJ.  Biofeedback focusing on your jaw and neck muscles can help.

 A good massage therapist who does polarity balancing can also help-

sometimes myofascial release from inside the mouth (done with finger cots

or latex gloves on) can provide dramatic relief.



And you know those relaxing and antispasmodic herbs:  kava kava,

lobelia...



But address the structural problem first with biofeedback and myofascial

release.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/misc/ter



On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:34:08 -0700 "Elizabeth Gessler"

<eeyorelove@ivillage.com> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Elizabeth Gessler" <eeyorelove@ivillage.com>:

>

>I am very new with herbs and I have been just sitting back and 

>learning but this subject has brought me to ask questions.  I also am 

>going to be having my wisdom teeth out in the near future.  I have a 

>TMJ problem which is causing me severe pain. A lot of the problem is 

>the muscle in the jaw and the joint itself.  Is there anything else 

>that I can do to prepare for having the wisdom teeth out or after they 

>are pulled?  I am trying to limit the pain medicine that I'm on but 

>the pain at times is so bad that I feel faint.  I am seeing a 

>wonderful dentist who I really trust and he is helping me so things 

>are much better.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>

>Elizabeth

> P.S. I have really enjoyed learning from you all and as soon as I 

>have some knowledge to share I promise I will.

>---

>" It's not much of a tail, but I'm sort of attached to it."

>  -Eeyore

___________________________________________________________________

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re(2): Shirley: Children's chest rub

From: sroberts@expression.org (Shirley E. Roberts)

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:48:55 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from sroberts@expression.org (Shirley E. Roberts):



In a book called How to be Your Own Herbal Pharmacist  by Linda

Rector-Page there is a section on Herbal Ointments and Salves.



	There are two methods, the first one a simple preparation, and the second

is more complex.

The simple method is to warm 6-7 ounces of lanolin, cocoa butter, lard, or

vaseline (not if you are a purist) in a pan with 2 tablespoons fresh cut

herbs (or dried or powdered).  Simmer gently 10 minutes, stirring, and

then filter thru a cheese cloth pressing out all the liquid from the

herbs.  Pour into small jars while still warm and let cool.



	The second method is to take a mixture of oils of your choice - almond,

sesame, wheat germ, vitamin E, olive, cocoa butter, lanolin or lard, 6-7

ounces total.  Steep herbs of choice in water to make a strong tea. 

Simmer the oils and the tea together until the water evaporates and the

herbal extract is incorporated into the oils.  Add enough bees wax (2-1/2

oz to 5 oz herbed oil) to make a good consistency.   Melt and stir until

well blended.   (Lanolin or lard will harden by itself and need no wax.)



	She recommends 1 drop of tincture of benzoin to preserve against mold. 

Perhaps a vitamin E capsule would work as well.



	Another method might be to simmer herbs in oil in a crock pot, as someone

has suggested previously, and then add the melted bees wax to the finished

product.



	Shirley

----------------------------

"Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion." -Harlan Ellison, The Grand

Master of Speculative

Fiction. 

----------------------------



herb@MyList.net,Internet writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from Danaroma@aol.com:

>

>Shirley:

>

>Please tell me more about salves made with strong teas.

>

>thanks,

>Dan







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: oral neoplasm

From: paf@connix.com

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:15:38 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from paf@connix.com:



After surgical removal of a benign oral neoplasm, is there helpful herbal

support to discourage it from reoccuring?  All I could think of immediately

was echinacea ext.

tia, Anita L.





--



paf@connix.com









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Pau d' Arco Herb

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:29:34 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



Does anyone know any safety factors regarding this herb & also what

experiences you've had with the herb itself?

Thank you,

Maureen









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Pau d' Arco Herb

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 06:09:38 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:29:34 -0500, "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net> wrote

to <herb@MyList.net>:



>To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:

>

>Does anyone know any safety factors regarding this herb & also what

>experiences you've had with the herb itself?



Can't say about Pau d'arco (Tabebuia), but both desert willow (Chilopsis) and

fireweed herb (Epilobium) are quite benign. And both are good substitutes for

pau d'arco.



So why not go for local plants? You can pick 'em yourself ... you use desert

willow bark, leaves and twigs, and fireweed leaves or flowering tops.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Pau d' Arco Herb

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:27:03 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<So why not go for local plants? You can pick 'em yourself ... you use

desert

willow bark, leaves and twigs, and fireweed leaves or flowering tops.>>



I ahve been on Pau d' Arco for some time on & off in treating candidiasis. I

tinctured some of the herb myself & was just wondering if the group had any

more inof than I've obtained on the herb. I'd never heard of a safety

problem & wanted to make sure that was true.

Thanks again,

Maureen











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: black cohosh

From: Jodi von Hagen <jodiv@uscom.com>

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:25:56 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Jodi von Hagen <jodiv@uscom.com>:



Does anyone know if it's too late to dig up black cohosh in southeastern

PA. I want to make a tincture but don't know if the activity in the

roots is still strong enough. Thanks, Jodi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: black cohosh

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:37:29 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Just after the first frost is good.  You still have some time.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/misc/ter



On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:25:56 -0500 Jodi von Hagen <jodiv@uscom.com>

writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from Jodi von Hagen <jodiv@uscom.com>:

>

>Does anyone know if it's too late to dig up black cohosh in 

>southeastern

>PA. I want to make a tincture but don't know if the activity in the

>roots is still strong enough. Thanks, Jodi



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Combinations of herbs

From: Wow33@aol.com

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:54:01 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Wow33@aol.com:



I have been taking St John's Wort 900mg for about a year with no problems and

modest success.  I have recently started taking Saw Palmetto Berries 2,000 mg

for the first month.



In the past week I have experienced serious irritability and confusion.  My

question is; does this reflect a problem with the combination or is this a

temporary problem associated with the new herb or some other issue.  I would

appreciate your commends.  Bill  - WOW33 







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Combinations of herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 15:20:30 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> In the past week I have experienced serious irritability and confusion.  My

> question is; does this reflect a problem with the combination or is this a

> temporary problem associated with the new herb or some other issue.  I would

> appreciate your commends.  Bill  - WOW33 



Hello everyone! 



Here's a few thoughts....



Irritability and confusion are both common complaints of the fall season. In

Chinese thinking, the liver suffers in the lung's season...irritability is a

liver imbalance sign---suggesting the need for exercise and a

low-fat/low-stimulant diet in this season. Bitter herbs and borscht soup (beets

and sour cream) can help. 



If you are taking SJW, then we can presume that your liver doesn't enjoy

harmony as a rule. Proper lifestyle is a must (includes daily exercise of an

enjoyable nature).



Confusion is associated in Chinese thinking with weak digestion. When the liver

suffers, it makes the stomach suffer with it. Try to avoid soggy, fatty foods,

sweets, and irregular meals.



Best,



Paul Iannone

(coming soon: herb-room.com)





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Combinations of herbs

From: Daniel Miller <un106@victoria.tc.ca>

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 04:24:47 -0800 (PST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Daniel Miller <un106@victoria.tc.ca>:





 

Hello or-- welcome back Paul!  Poignant offering on your behalf.

Said complaints certainly reflective of myself and those around me.



`[proper] lifestyle' Something my chinese medicine practioner emphasizes

to me as the catalyst necessary to fufill the work intended by the action

of the herbs indicated to alleviate my disharmony.

 

 - Dan

 

> On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 p_iannone@lamg.com wrote:

> 

> > To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

> > 

> > In the past week I have experienced serious irritability and confusion.  My

> > question is; does this reflect a problem with the combination or is this a

> > temporary problem associated with the new herb or some other issue.  I would

> > appreciate your commends.  Bill  - WOW33 

> 

> Hello everyone! 

> 

> Here's a few thoughts....

> 

> Irritability and confusion are both common complaints of the fall season. In

> Chinese thinking, the liver suffers in the lung's season...irritability is a

> liver imbalance sign---suggesting the need for exercise and a

> low-fat/low-stimulant diet in this season. Bitter herbs and borscht soup (beets

> and sour cream) can help. 

> 

> If you are taking SJW, then we can presume that your liver doesn't enjoy

> harmony as a rule. Proper lifestyle is a must (includes daily exercise of an

> enjoyable nature).

> 

> Confusion is associated in Chinese thinking with weak digestion. When the liver

> suffers, it makes the stomach suffer with it. Try to avoid soggy, fatty foods,

> sweets, and irregular meals.

> 

> Best,

> 

> Paul Iannone

> (coming soon: herb-room.com)

> 

> 

> 

> 













==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:pau d'arco

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:40:20 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Maureen,



I haven't read anything about pau d'arco causing harm, but my experience is

another matter.  In early March 1997, I had delayed asthmatic reactions from

pau d'arco, though I suspected this hazard the previous October, but dragged

my feet on further use of pau d'arco then.  It was similar to what I might get

from eating peppers (capsicum) or tomatoes (less severe), or eggplant (more

severe) or potatoes (worse yet).  Potatoes, eggplant, capsicum and tomato

belong to family Solanaceae, but pau d'arco belongs to genus Tabebuia (several

species), family Bignoniaceae.  Last summer I cautiously tried the pau d'arco 

that I still had, with little or no adverse reaction.  But I don't wish to push

my luck on pau d'arco in the future.  I can take Echinacea purpurea root OK.



Balch & Balch's Prescription for Nutritional Healing recommends three cups

daily of pau d'arco tea for asthma and several other chronic ailments, sort of

a cure-all?  My experience is not to say what would happen to someone else.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: "herblist" <herb@MyList.net>, <j_iris@juno.com>

Subject: Re:; Wisdom Teeth Extraction

From: "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:29:12 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>:





j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski) wrote:



>In a couple week my daughter will have all four wisdom teeth removed.

>I will bolster her immune system w/ vit C and ecchinacea and use

>herbal wraps post op.

>Does anyone have any other suggestions for promoting healing,

>preventing infection and "dry socket"?

>thanks you  Jenny Iris



Jenny,



I am going to have 4 of my 6 removed next week.  (Yes, I had 2 extra's;

already had 1 out and will be keeping one.)  The best things to counteract

the soreness are Vit. C, Quercetin, Bromalain and Magnesium.  Begin taking

these the morning of the extraction, and continue for a day or two

afterwards (depending on soreness).  I take them before and after any event

that is likely to give me any aches and pains.  Usually 3-4 times a day is

plenty.



As to the dry socket and infection question, Echinachea is very good.  I

think you said before that you will start this at least a week or two prior

to the extraction.  That should allow the immune system time to build before

the need arises.  The most important thing with an extraction though, is to

make sure that the dentist removes the "sock" that normally covers the

roots.  Many dentists don't remove this and any other soft tissue (down to

the bone itself) unless it is infected.  Leaving this in is what frequently

leads to the problems you mentioned, plus the failure of the bone to

"fill-in" where the tooth once was.



Some holistic dentists also perform a procedure called "cavitation" or

"decavitation", for which they charge extra.  This apparently involves

drilling into the bone somewhat after cleaning out all the tissue, to ensure

that the bone will regrow.  Obviously, this is likely to extend the initial

healing time; and from my experience, doesn't seem necessary.



Marie Winston

b.winston@worldnet.att.net







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Saw Palmetto for women

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:07:39 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



Have any ladies been using saw palmetto for libido?  I am interested in

your results (more like comparing them). I tried it for a few months and

have since ceased, perhaps I have some confliction going on.  You may email

me in private if you wish.

Thanks

Juli



Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com



Taking botanicals to the extreme!







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:10:52 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



Juli Kight wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

> 

> Have any ladies been using saw palmetto for libido?  





Hi this herb dosen't work for libido as such, in standard extracts of 

320 mg is works on benign prostatic enlargment. If the enlarged 

prostate is the cause of the libido problem then it may have an 

effect. It can take several months to reduce the enlargment.Hope this 

helps. Donna





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 06:30:01 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



I was giving it a try since I read in James Dukes Green Pharmacy that it

contains beta-stosterol which has been found by research to help restore

libido in women. I could have sworn I read something that said it contained

testosterone, I'll be dumbfounded, I cant find it. I dig it up somewhere!

Thanks

Juli

-----Original Message-----

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 6:00 AM

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women





>To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:

>

>Juli Kight wrote:

>>

>> To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

>>

>> Have any ladies been using saw palmetto for libido?

>

>

>Hi this herb dosen't work for libido as such, in standard extracts of

>320 mg is works on benign prostatic enlargment. If the enlarged

>prostate is the cause of the libido problem then it may have an

>effect. It can take several months to reduce the enlargment.Hope this

>helps. Donna







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:55:10 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



While Saw Palmetto may contain beta-sitosterol, a very common phytosterol

found in many foods and plants, it does not follow that the saw palmetto

plant used as a whole will increase female libidio and I am unaware of

any traditional uses for women's libidio.  Jim Duke is fabulous, but he

is not a clinician and his suggestion is based upon finding constituents

and speculating.  (As he would probably be the first to say.)  It goes

into the "needs more study and may be a source of extracted constituents

for drugs" category.



One study, by DiSilverio, found that saw palmetto extract decreases the

number of receptor sites available for estrogen binding, thus limiting

the action of that hormone.  This was done with male animals.



Another study found that saw palmetto blocked (rat) prolactin receptor

cells (in males)- prolactin can have some dampening of female libidio (at

least when combined with a new baby and no sleep!).  But that is awfully

slim evidence for extrapolating to "helps female libidio",  Asking first

was a good move on your part.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/misc/ter



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:50:57 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> > Have any ladies been using saw palmetto for libido?  

> 

> 

> Hi this herb dosen't work for libido as such, in standard extracts of 

> 320 mg is works on benign prostatic enlargment. If the enlarged 

> prostate is the cause of the libido problem then it may have an 

> effect.



When women get around to reducing the size of their prostates, we men can just

stay in the test tubes and run things from there. :-)



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:46:55 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



p_iannone@lamg.com wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

> 

> > > Have any ladies been using saw palmetto for libido?

> >

> >

> > Hi this herb dosen't work for libido as such, in standard extracts of

> > 320 mg is works on benign prostatic enlargment. If the enlarged

> > prostate is the cause of the libido problem then it may have an

> > effect.

> 

> When women get around to reducing the size of their prostates, we men can just

> stay in the test tubes and run things from there. :-)

> 

> Paul

woooops!!! I guess you were talking about a Womens libido not a mans, 

If I come across anything I'll let you know. Paul get back in the test 

tube!! Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:06:45 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Paul-



Welcome back!  We've missed your acerbic wit and good information.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:50:57 -0800 p_iannone@lamg.com writes:

>When women get around to reducing the size of their prostates, we men 

>can just

>stay in the test tubes and run things from there. :-)

>

>Paul

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==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: RE: Saw Palmetto for women

From: "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:11:22 -0600 

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>:



Sorry if this sounds REALLY stupid but what is libido?  I am female but have

NEVER heard this word.  



Rachael Boyer

3121

"Two breeding

cats and their offspring will generate 420,000 cats in just six years. 

Two breeding dogs with all their offspring will produce 67,000 dogs in

seven years."  Please spay your pet!

 

 "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his

life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last

beat of

his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion"

         Unknown





> -----Original Message-----

> From:	Juli Kight [SMTP:castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us]

> Sent:	Saturday, November 07, 1998 4:08 PM

> To:	herb@MyList.net

> Subject:	Saw Palmetto for women

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

> 

> Have any ladies been using saw palmetto for libido?  I am interested in

> your results (more like comparing them). I tried it for a few months and

> have since ceased, perhaps I have some confliction going on.  You may

> email

> me in private if you wish.

> Thanks

> Juli

> 

> Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

> http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

> The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com

> 

> Taking botanicals to the extreme!





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:14:38 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:11:22 -0600 , "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>

wrote to "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>:



>To herb@MyList.net from "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>:

>

>Sorry if this sounds REALLY stupid but what is libido?  I am female but have

>NEVER heard this word.  



Wanting sex. Low libido - you're not interested. High libido - boyo, watch out!



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:42:49 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Sorry if this sounds REALLY stupid but what is libido?  I am female but have

> NEVER heard this word.  

> 

> Rachael Boyer

> 3121

> "Two breeding

> cats and their offspring will generate 420,000 cats in just six years. 



Obviously your cats are clear on the concept. Why not ask them?



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: RE: Saw Palmetto for women

From: "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:50:15 -0700 (MST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>:



Well now I do feel REALLY stupid!!!  So what are good herbs for this?  



Thank you,

Rachael Boyer

HR Assistant

512-912-3121



-----Original Message-----

From: HeK@hetta.pp.fi [mailto:HeK@hetta.pp.fi]

Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 12:15 PM

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women



To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:11:22 -0600 , "Boyer, Rachael"

<rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>

wrote to "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>:

>Sorry if this sounds REALLY stupid but what is libido?  I am female but have

>NEVER heard this word.  



Wanting sex. Low libido - you're not interested. High libido - boyo, watch

out!



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: Rashid Bacor <rbacor@intnet.mu>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 04:14:29 +0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rashid Bacor <rbacor@intnet.mu>:



Greeting to all of you.



I am new to herbs and to this list.  Could somebody please tell me what is Saw

Palmetto?  Also if it is a herb, then let me have its botanical name.



Rashid Bacor

Coromandel

Mauritius

(Indian Ocean)



Boyer, Rachael wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>:

>

> Well now I do feel REALLY stupid!!!  So what are good herbs for this?

>

> Thank you,

> Rachael Boyer

> HR Assistant

> 512-912-3121

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: HeK@hetta.pp.fi [mailto:HeK@hetta.pp.fi]

> Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 12:15 PM

> To: herb@MyList.net

> Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

>

> To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):

>

> On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:11:22 -0600 , "Boyer, Rachael"

> <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>

> wrote to "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>:

> >Sorry if this sounds REALLY stupid but what is libido?  I am female but have

> >NEVER heard this word.

>

> Wanting sex. Low libido - you're not interested. High libido - boyo, watch

> out!

>

> Henriette

>

> --

> Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

> http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

>       /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

> Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto for women

From: Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:26:11 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>:



>Greeting to all of you.

>

>I am new to herbs and to this list.  Could somebody please tell me what is

Saw

>Palmetto?  Also if it is a herb, then let me have its botanical name.

>



Rashid,

It is Saw Palmetto berries or Serenoa repens

from United States



Lucinda Jenkins

Glenbrook Farms Herbs and Such

Fine Teas, Herbs, Spices. Fine Quality Soaps

http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Spiritual Emergency

From: "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:50:33 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>:



A friend of mine is doing some research on Spiritual Emergencies - which is

a vague term for a wide range of symptoms like feeling 'out of one's body',

hypersensitivity, disoriented, extreme paranoia, extreme heat, ringing in

the ears, feeling compelled to do yoga postures etc.



Someone having a spiritual emergency has typically done an extreme amount of

meditation and/or strenuous breathing exercises although this isn't always

the case.



My friend believes that conventional approaches - i.e. psychiatric drugs -

may be even more harmful than normal.



Does anyone have experience in using herbs for this situation. Would St.

John's Wort or some kind of flower remedy be helpful? Anything else that you

could recommend for 1) grounding 2) become more centred in the body 3)

kundalini heat 4) hypersensitivity?



Thanks,



Pramod







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency

From: "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:21:24 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>:



Hi Lee, I'd like to respond to the "ringing in the ears." A short time ago my

Homeopathic Doctor mentioned Gingko for ears ringing. I've also read a

Fennel/Wild Yam homeopathic combination is used. Another source, states the

importance of Dandelion Root. Apparently ringing ears has to do with not enough

bile being passed through the bile duct.



As a grounding practice, I'd like to suggest the method as taught by the

Berkeley Psychic Institute in California:  In a comfortable sitting position,

close your eyes and take three deep breaths from the diaphram. Visualize a

waterfall, tree, chain, tube, pipeline, anything you want attached to the base

of the spine. Let's say it's a pipeline. Now tell yourself - release the

pipeline straight down through the earth to the center of the planet and anchor

it. So now the pipeline is attached to the base of your spine and is also

attached to the center of the earth.  At the base of the spine you open the

pipeline by imagining it opens like the lens of a camera. Then all you do is

tell yourself Release and see all fear, negativity and other peoples energy flow

down the pipeline into the center of the earth where Mother Earth recycles that

released energy.



In conjunction with 'grounding,' another good thing to do is, with both feet on

the floor, imagine the arch of each foot has a chakra. Open the feet chakra's

(again imagining they are like the lens of a camera) and draw in the pure, fresh

earth energy up your leg channels into the base chakra. Mix the fresh earth

energy in the base chakra and then allow it to flush down the ground. The ground

(pipeline) flows only one way, down into the center of the earth.



Although I have no personal affiliation with Berkeley Psychic Institute, I am

acquainted with a few of its professionally licensed graduates.



Hope this helps.



Pat



Lee Hunter wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>:

>

> A friend of mine is doing some research on Spiritual Emergencies - which is

> a vague term for a wide range of symptoms like feeling 'out of one's body',

> hypersensitivity, disoriented, extreme paranoia, extreme heat, ringing in

> the ears, feeling compelled to do yoga postures etc.

>

> Someone having a spiritual emergency has typically done an extreme amount of

> meditation and/or strenuous breathing exercises although this isn't always

> the case.

>

> My friend believes that conventional approaches - i.e. psychiatric drugs -

> may be even more harmful than normal.

>

> Does anyone have experience in using herbs for this situation. Would St.

> John's Wort or some kind of flower remedy be helpful? Anything else that you

> could recommend for 1) grounding 2) become more centred in the body 3)

> kundalini heat 4) hypersensitivity?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Pramod











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:44:22 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 98-11-08 15:49:03 EST, you write:



<< 

 Kundalina experiences are nothing to fool around with. An understanding

 spritual teacher is needed here - i don't believe herbs will help. The

 flower essence Recue Remedy may be helpful if the emergency is not extreme.

 I would definitely stay away from doctors, particularly those who

 specialize in psychiatry.

  >>



I agree. Kundalini is nothing to fool around with. Get a qualified teacher or

forget it. Too dangerous.



I practice yoga myself, Bhakti Yoga, the yoga of love and devotion. I beleieve

that if your friend wants to do any real research, the idea is that it is in

the heart, not with externals that fool around with the body such as

kundalini. If you want to email me privately with specific questions, I will

answer them. I have been practicing Bhakti Yoga since 1974. 



<3

Sarina







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency

From: Bonnie <chandleb@bellsouth.net>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:46:20 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Bonnie <chandleb@bellsouth.net>:



What is Kundalina?

Bonnie











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:52:31 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:46:20 -0500, Bonnie <chandleb@bellsouth.net> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>What is Kundalina?



Off-topic on this list.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 19:56:31 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Kundalina experiences are nothing to fool around with. An understanding

>  spritual teacher is needed here - i don't believe herbs will help.



Valerian and rest will go a long way toward restoring balance.



Thinking of plants as 'herbs' only serves to limit their value, it seems. 



Paul





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency

From: "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:49:48 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>:



In Indian mystical traditions Kundalini is a powerful sacred energy that is

coiled like a snake at the base of the spine. It can be awakened through

breathing exercises, yoga, meditation. But when it is aroused it pours

through the energy channels of the subtle body. If those channels haven't

been properly prepared (i.e. if they have blockages) the kundalini can be

quite dangerous - extraordinary heat is a common condition. I've watched

someone with kundalini heat complete immerse himself in an icy Himalayan

stream in the middle of winter.

Extreme dissociation - being out of one's body - is also possible. Kundalini

cases sometimes wind up in psychiatric hospitals.



Pramod



-----Original Message-----

From: Bonnie <chandleb@bellsouth.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency





>To herb@MyList.net from Bonnie <chandleb@bellsouth.net>:

>

>What is Kundalina?

>Bonnie

>

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:14:22 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



herb@MyList.net,Internet writes:

>>>> I've watched  someone with kundalini heat complete immerse himself in an

>icy Himalayan stream in the middle of winter.<<

>

>I never actually got to witness it. You are lucky. :) I did see a documentary

>on it though where they showed kundalin in action. Monks woke very early in

>the morning, put wet towles on their shoulders in a cold room and in a matter

>of minutes they were able to cause steam to rise from the wet towels. 



What you are describing is called Tumo, or psychic heat,not Kundalini.

Kundalini is a term in a very highly esoteric system of tantric yoga. What it

refers to is entirely beyond the scope of words.

>

>>> Kundalini  cases sometimes wind up in psychiatric hospitals. >>

>

>Definately. There are so many other safe forms of yoga, no sense to dabble in

>kundalini. It can drive one crazy and isn't worth it. 



What profoundly ignorant nonsense. Why don't you go back to fearing witches

instead.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergency

From: CWade99365@aol.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:36:25 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from CWade99365@aol.com:



Have your friend get her ears checked.  It could be an ear infection.  The

symptoms are as an adult with an ear infection.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Kola Nuts

From: Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:52:36 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>:



Lately, I have had requests for whole kola nuts which I do not have. Why

are people asking for this? 

What are they doing with them? any suggestions?

Thanks



Lucinda Jenkins

Glenbrook Farms Herbs and Such

Fine Teas, Herbs, Spices. Fine Quality Soaps

http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Eyebright

From: coa-gen@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:51:28 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from coa-gen@worldnet.att.net:



   What do you know about the herb eyebright?  How long can it be taken for

the best results?

Jeri Williams





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eyebright

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:14:38 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



coa-gen@worldnet.att.net wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from coa-gen@worldnet.att.net:

> 

>    What do you know about the herb eyebright?  How long can it be taken for

> the best results?

> Jeri Williams



Eyebright (Euphrasia officinalis) is an astringent, anti-inflammatory

and breaks up mucus. Its very good for colds and allergies when you 

have itchy runny eyes and a runny nose ect. I have used it for a week 

and had no bad effects. I take it in tincture form one dropper in the 

morning and evening. David Hoffman says 3 times a day but I have found 

it depends on how you feel. Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:31:54 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:47:26 -0800 Glenbrook Farm

<jenkins@GLENBROOKFARM.COM> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>:

>

>Some schools charge as much as $4,000.00 in the US for a diploma.

>If I paid that much for the fine education they give, would I be an

>herbalist with a title and accreditation in the eyes of the United 

>States Government?  



The US Government will not recognize any herbalist diploma.  If you want

something to practice with get a recognized credential (MD, PhD in

nutrition, ND in a few states, DAc or DOM in many states, RN, LMT, EMT,

DC or whatever has the closest affinity.  Bear in mind that any of these

professions may have restrictions on prescribing, on using non-standard

medicines, etc.  The situation is local and legally controlled by

states.)



Cascade Anderson Geller refuses to have any initials after her name, even

AHG (which she helped found) because she says if there is no affiliation

then no one can tell you that your effective practice is not permitted

under their rules.  Depends how libertarian you want to get about it. 

Pioneers can help people in novel ways but may also harm them.  There are

protections as well as an inherent conservatism in accreditation.



>or is the diploma an expensive piece of paper to them?



to the government, yes.  Bear in mind that every state is different. 

Herbal medicine is illegal in most states (and so we are "educators") and

even the few MDs who learn herbalism may face persecution from the FDA,

their professional associations or their state licensing boards. 

Hopefully less than in the past, but...



>Are we paying for a schools reputation only ( and of course their

>materials)..



You pay for the teachers who will train you, their texts and other

materials.  Get the best individuals, regardless of reputations, then

throw in a marketable name if you feel the need.  Remember the "big

names" do not always have the best teaching- and often pass it off to

their assistants.  If at all possible don't do most of your work by

correspondence.  The hands on work is invaluable.  A training with

clinical practice is best if you want to treat people.  Even training

with a local lay healer is useful if you can accompany him or her on

rounds treating real people.



How can some schools give you a PHD in nutriton or 

>herbology in just 6 months?



Avoid 6 month PhDs.  They should take whatever a normal university PhD

would take- usually a few years, although testing your knowlege and

giving you credit for life experience is reasonable.



>When an herb school says they are accredited , who is doing the

>accrediatation?



They should say who does it.  Use a nationally recognized program. 

However the AHG is moving towards accrediting herbalism programs.  These

would not be legally accepted but would insure a quality of training. 

Training in anatomy and physiology is usually part of this.  I know that

Michael Tierra's training program is moving towards proposed AHG

standards.  If herbalism is then legalized it will probably follow AHG

standards, but it may never be legalized.  



>This is very confusing to me and this post is not meant to 

>start a war, just clear up my confusion so I can choose a path.



Herbalists share in a tradition of having been persecuted, jailed and

even burned at the stake.  Healing is for the strong of heart (and soul),

not the faint of heart.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org/misc/ter



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:47:26 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>:



Henriette,

  I  saw your posts on the herb schools.

I have a question about this and maybe some of you in the USA can answer

this also.

Please keep in mind I am trying to sort this out and not question the

credentials of others.

Some schools charge as much as $4,000.00 in the US for a diploma.

If I paid that much for the fine education they give, would I be an

herbalist with a title and accreditation in the eyes of the United States

Government?  

or is the diploma an expensive piece of paper to them?

Are we paying for a schools reputation only ( and of course their

materials)..How can some schools give you a PHD in nutriton or herbology

in just 6 months?

When an herb school says they are accredited , who is doing the

accrediatation?

This is very confusing to me and this post is not meant to 

start a war, just clear up my confusion so I can choose a path.

If this way off topic then e-mail me your comments as I would love to hear

them

Thanks



Lucinda Jenkins

Glenbrook Farms Herbs and Such

Fine Teas, Herbs, Spices. Fine Quality Soaps

http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 15:13:38 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:47:26 -0800, Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>

wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>I  saw your posts on the herb schools.



More like schools of thought in herbal medicine, not schools per se.



>Some schools charge as much as $4,000.00 in the US for a diploma.



Or more. But GOOD schools don't charge for the diploma, they charge for

education. Diplomas are then just afterthoughts.

You should see the one I got, it's a REAL laugh. "Be it known that Henriette...

...In testimony of this accomplishment we have affixed our signatures on this

day..." - I love it. As the paper legally is a joke, why not make it -really-

pompous? Anyways, the education I got is quite solid, thank you, and no paper

would give me that.



>If I paid that much for the fine education they give, would I be an

>herbalist with a title and accreditation in the eyes of the United States

>Government?  



Title, yes. Accreditation? In the US? You're joking, right? ND's and

acupuncturists can be accredited, in some states, but they're not herbalists -

generally. But there's controversy on the ND title, too. Check the medicinal

herbfaq on further info about education and accreditation.



>Are we paying for a schools reputation only ( and of course their

>materials)..How can some schools give you a PHD in nutriton or herbology

>in just 6 months?



By cheating. If you attend my two-lesson correspondence course I can make you a

professor emeritus in nutrition. It'll only cost you (insert amount here) bucks,

and you should know that the offer is -only- valid through the end of this

month. For only twice as much I'll throw in an ND paper. Act NOW, before it's

too late!



Actually, I frown quite deeply on papermill schools. They detract value from ANY

real education, with the same titles. How do you know if your ND went into debt

to pay for one of the tedious expensive schools, or got her/his degree from a

post box office? Sheesh... the charlatans should be wiped out, one and all.



>When an herb school says they are accredited , who is doing the

>accreditation?



The director of the school? As far as I know no herbal schools are accredited.

ND schools are, in North America, four of them - or is it five now? Seriously,

there's an entry on this in the medicinal herbfaq, go read it.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 20:55:13 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>:







Glenbrook Farm wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>:

>

> Henriette,

>   I  saw your posts on the herb schools.

> I have a question about this and maybe some of you in the USA can answer

> this also.

> Please keep in mind I am trying to sort this out and not question the

> credentials of others.

> Some schools charge as much as $4,000.00 in the US for a diploma.

> If I paid that much for the fine education they give, would I be an

> herbalist with a title and accreditation in the eyes of the United States

> Government?

> or is the diploma an expensive piece of paper to them?

> Are we paying for a schools reputation only ( and of course their

> materials)..How can some schools give you a PHD in nutriton or herbology

> in just 6 months?

> When an herb school says they are accredited , who is doing the

> accrediatation?

> This is very confusing to me and this post is not meant to

> start a war, just clear up my confusion so I can choose a path.

> If this way off topic then e-mail me your comments as I would love to hear

> them

> Thanks

>

> Lucinda Jenkins

> Glenbrook Farms Herbs and Such

> Fine Teas, Herbs, Spices. Fine Quality Soaps

> http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs



There is no such thing as accredidation in the U.S.  Herbalism is not an

accepted discipline nor is it technically legal.  Most of the schools I know

of in the U.S. that teach about herbs, I feel are a waste of money.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 21:07:23 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>:





>The US Government will not recognize any herbalist diploma.  If you want

>something to practice with get a recognized credential (MD, PhD in

>nutrition, ND in a few states, DAc or DOM in many states, RN, LMT, EMT,

>DC or whatever has the closest affinity.  Bear in mind that any of these

>professions may have restrictions on prescribing, on using non-standard

>medicines, etc. 



  Thank you all for your time and energy on this subject.

Henriette site does have alot of information on this subject..I think my

best education may come from an old Florida "Root" woman...if I could only

find one now.

Thanks again







 

Lucinda Jenkins

Glenbrook Farms Herbs and Such

Fine Teas, Herbs, Spices. Fine Quality Soaps

http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:49:56 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from NEHrbSup@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/8/98 10:55:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,

turpin@netsavant.com writes:



<< There is no such thing as accredidation in the U.S.  Herbalism is not an

 accepted discipline nor is it technically legal.  Most of the schools I know

 of in the U.S. that teach about herbs, I feel are a waste of money. >>





Rob,



And what pray tell has given you this kind of insight and thought process.

while there may be no "official" accreditation of a particular facility, there

are nevertheless some very good schools with some very very qualified

practitioners who know their craft very well.  please be specific about the

ones "you know of" that teach herbs that are of no value and please back up

your statement with something solid the rest of us on the list can look to.

It may not be "legal" in technical terms to "practice" the art of healing but

probably that is why some of us don't practice as the allos do - we just "do

it" .  

peter





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 06:21:53 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>:







NEHrbSup@aol.com wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from NEHrbSup@aol.com:

>

> In a message dated 11/8/98 10:55:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> turpin@netsavant.com writes:

>

> << There is no such thing as accredidation in the U.S.  Herbalism is not an

>  accepted discipline nor is it technically legal.  Most of the schools I know

>  of in the U.S. that teach about herbs, I feel are a waste of money. >>

>

> Rob,

>

> And what pray tell has given you this kind of insight and thought process.

> while there may be no "official" accreditation of a particular facility, there

> are nevertheless some very good schools with some very very qualified

> practitioners who know their craft very well.  please be specific about the

> ones "you know of" that teach herbs that are of no value and please back up

> your statement with something solid the rest of us on the list can look to.

> It may not be "legal" in technical terms to "practice" the art of healing but

> probably that is why some of us don't practice as the allos do - we just "do

> it" .

> peter



    Peter,



    I didn't mean anything derogatory because there is no accredidation in the

U.S.  I was just making

    this point to a person that asked a question about it.  What bothers me most

about schools of

    herbalism in the U.S. is the amount of money charged for the education

received.  And along with

    this monetary commitment a person is learning a very precarious trade. (i.e.

there isn't any

    sanctioned practice of it for "lay people")

    I've also been around a few schools and known the people involved and the

people who go to

    said schools.  I'm not impressed.  There seems to be a lot of overly

optimistic, flakey, individuals

    who have simplistic notions about health and herbs and how to practice it.

Obviously this is my

    arrogant opinion.  I could probably go on for pages describing my opinion

towards herbalism in

    the west.  In a nutshell, I believe herbalism in the U.S. lacks depth, a lot

of depth.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:02:46 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 06:21:53 -0700, Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>I didn't mean anything derogatory because there is no accredidation in the U.S.  



You don't? Funny, your post does strike me as quite derogatory.



>I was just making this point to a person that asked a question about it.  

>What bothers me most about schools of herbalism in the U.S. is the amount 

>of money charged for the education received.  



So you've had one bad experience. Care to tell us which school you weren't

satisfied with, sort of pass the word, as it were?



I know -good- schools, where education is more important than money. And where

education is worth every penny you pay for it. In the US.



But sure, you'll find greedy individuals in any trade, if you look for them.



>And along with this monetary commitment a person is learning a very 

>precarious trade. (i.e. there isn't any sanctioned practice of it for 

>"lay people")



So what's new about that? That's been the case in the US ever since the

Eclectics were run out of town, in the 1930's or so. Herbalists have been low

profile ever since. Do you see a lack of herbalists because of that? It just

takes a burning will to work with herbs. Most herbalists I know have what it

takes. As my pal unca Mike said so poetically: 

"Herbalists have Asclepias on their brains and plant sap in their veins".



If you don't have that, why not go for a ND degree? Those are sanctioned in a

couple states in the US. Sure, it's expensive, but you only object to expense

without sanction, don't you?



>I've also been around a few schools and known the people involved and the

>people who go to said schools.  I'm not impressed.  There seems to be a lot 

>of overly optimistic, flakey, individuals who have simplistic notions about 

>health and herbs and how to practice it.



A whole school full of flakey individuals? Come now, was this the first month of

school, or did you give it a real chance and wait with your assessment until the

very last month of school? People change, and mature too, in class.



Among 20 students you'll -always- find about 3 who will become really good

healers, 6 who will become good to mediocre healers, 6 who will do related

things with their herbs (like growing them, or working in herb shops), and

perhaps 5 who won't do anything at all with their education. If you did attend

said school it seems you were among that last 5, as the education they offered

didn't fit you.



>In a nutshell, I believe herbalism in the U.S. lacks depth, a lot of depth.



So you haven't met a good herbalist, have you? Been to any conferences lately?

Listened to practising herbalists, with experience under their belt, speak about

clients, herbs and things to try? No? You should give it a shot, you might be

surprised.



My take on this is that herbalism in the US is on quite stable grounds, both in

philosophical background and in practice. There are good teachers, variety in

ways of thinking (which is necessary for growth), students en masse, excellent

new books based on experience (rather than older books) - herbalism in the US is

doing good. 



About as good as in England and Austrailia, as far as I can tell.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 16:50:29 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>:









>

>

> >I didn't mean anything derogatory because there is no accredidation in the U.S.

>

> You don't? Funny, your post does strike me as quite derogatory.

>

> Well, whether you believe me or not, it wasn't derogatory.  Someone asked a

> question about accredidation in the U.S.  I responded.  As a matter of fact your

> whole response to my post has a lot of attitude.

>

> So you've had one bad experience. Care to tell us which school you weren't

> satisfied with, sort of pass the word, as it were?

>



    Your making some assumptions here.  You don't know what my experience is and,

no, I have no

    desire to go about trashing schools or individuals even though I may have strong

opinions about

    them.



>

> If you don't have that, why not go for a ND degree? Those are sanctioned in a

> couple states in the US. Sure, it's expensive, but you only object to expense

> without sanction, don't you?

>



    I never meant that a sanctioned diploma or accredidation is important to me.

Again, I was trying

    to answer someone's query about the state of herbalsim in the U.S



>

> >I've also been around a few schools and known the people involved and the

> >people who go to said schools.  I'm not impressed.  There seems to be a lot

> >of overly optimistic, flakey, individuals who have simplistic notions about

> >health and herbs and how to practice it.

>

> A whole school full of flakey individuals? Come now, was this the first month of

> school, or did you give it a real chance and wait with your assessment until the

> very last month of school? People change, and mature too, in class.

>



    Again, your making assumptions about how I've come to my opinions.



>

> Among 20 students you'll -always- find about 3 who will become really good

> healers, 6 who will become good to mediocre healers, 6 who will do related

> things with their herbs (like growing them, or working in herb shops), and

> perhaps 5 who won't do anything at all with their education. If you did attend

> said school it seems you were among that last 5, as the education they offered

> didn't fit you.

>



    Who's being derogatory here?



>

> >In a nutshell, I believe herbalism in the U.S. lacks depth, a lot of depth.

>

> So you haven't met a good herbalist, have you? Been to any conferences lately?

> Listened to practising herbalists, with experience under their belt, speak about

> clients, herbs and things to try? No? You should give it a shot, you might be

> surprised.

>



    I have been to conferences. I have heard various herbalists speak.



>

> My take on this is that herbalism in the US is on quite stable grounds, both in

> philosophical background and in practice. There are good teachers, variety in

> ways of thinking (which is necessary for growth), students en masse, excellent

> new books based on experience (rather than older books) - herbalism in the US is

> doing good.



    I disagree with your opinion about all of the excellent new books.  I think most

books about herbs

    don't offer much,  Again, I think there is a lack of depth.



>

> I don't expect to sway you to my opinion.  Nor do I expect to sway anyone else.  I

> will offer my judgment though.  I feel we have different philosophical viewpoints

> about the situation and, there really isn't any place for us to meet.  If you

> disagree with me, fine but,  there's no need for you to make false assumptions

> about me and how I came to my assessment.  Nor is there any need for



    you to drop in little put downs about me.  Why don't you just address the issues

and leave it at

    that?



    Rob







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:41:25 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:



creationsgarden@juno.com wrote:

> 

> a recognized credential (MD, PhD in nutrition, ND in a few states, 

> DAc or DOM in many states, RN, LMT, EMT, DC or whatever 



Any idea where one would find explanations for all these nice

abbreviations?



-- 

Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi



"After silence, that which comes nearest 

to expressing the inexpressible is music." 

- Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Kirk T Norby <kirkt@selway.umt.edu>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:08:57 -0700 (MST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kirk T Norby <kirkt@selway.umt.edu>:



On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Miikkali Leppihalme wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:

> 

> creationsgarden@juno.com wrote:

> > 

> > a recognized credential (MD, PhD in nutrition, ND in a few states, 

> > DAc or DOM in many states, RN, LMT, EMT, DC or whatever

If you are interested in what the initials stand for: 

Medical Doctor, Doctor of Philosophy, Naturopathic Doctor, Doctor of

Acupuncture, Doctor of Oriental Medicine, Registered Nurse, Licensed

Massage Therapist, Emergency Medical Technician, Doctor of Chiropractic

 > 

> Any idea where one would find explanations for all these nice

> abbreviations?

> 

> -- 

> Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi

> 

> "After silence, that which comes nearest 

> to expressing the inexpressible is music." 

> - Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)

> 







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:24:39 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Herbgrow30@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/9/98 6:50:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

turpin@netsavant.com writes:



<< > So you've had one bad experience. Care to tell us which school you

weren't

 > satisfied with, sort of pass the word, as it were?

 >

 

     Your making some assumptions here.  You don't know what my experience is

and,

 no, I have no

     desire to go about trashing schools or individuals even though I may have

strong

 opinions about

     them.

 

 >

 > If you don't have that, why not go for a ND degree? Those are sanctioned in

a

 > couple states in the US. Sure, it's expensive, but you only object to

expense

 > without sanction, don't you?

 >

 

     I never meant that a sanctioned diploma or accredidation is important to

me.

 Again, I was trying

     to answer someone's query about the state of herbalsim in the U.S

 

 >

 > >I've also been around a few schools and known the people involved and the

 > >people who go to said schools.  I'm not impressed.  There seems to be a

lot

 > >of overly optimistic, flakey, individuals who have simplistic notions

about

 > >health and herbs and how to practice it.

 >

 > A whole school full of flakey individuals? Come now, was this the first

month of

 > school, or did you give it a real chance and wait with your assessment

until the

 > very last month of school? People change, and mature too, in class.

 >

 

     Again, your making assumptions about how I've come to my opinions.

 

 >

 > Among 20 students you'll -always- find about 3 who will become really good

 > healers, 6 who will become good to mediocre healers, 6 who will do related

 > things with their herbs (like growing them, or working in herb shops), and

 > perhaps 5 who won't do anything at all with their education. If you did

attend

 > said school it seems you were among that last 5, as the education they

offered

 > didn't fit you.

 >

 

     Who's being derogatory here?

 

 >

 > >In a nutshell, I believe herbalism in the U.S. lacks depth, a lot of

depth.

 >

 > So you haven't met a good herbalist, have you? Been to any conferences

lately?

 > Listened to practising herbalists, with experience under their belt, speak

about

 > clients, herbs and things to try? No? You should give it a shot, you might

be

 > surprised.

 >

 

     I have been to conferences. I have heard various herbalists speak.

 

 >

 > My take on this is that herbalism in the US is on quite stable grounds,

both in

 > philosophical background and in practice. There are good teachers, variety

in

 > ways of thinking (which is necessary for growth), students en masse,

excellent

 > new books based on experience (rather than older books) - herbalism in the

US is

 > doing good.

 

     I disagree with your opinion about all of the excellent new books.  I

think most

 books about herbs

     don't offer much,  Again, I think there is a lack of depth.

 

 >

 > I don't expect to sway you to my opinion.  Nor do I expect to sway anyone

else.  I

 > will offer my judgment though.  I feel we have different philosophical

viewpoints

 > about the situation and, there really isn't any place for us to meet.  If

you

 > disagree with me, fine but,  there's no need for you to make false

assumptions

 > about me and how I came to my assessment.  Nor is there any need for

 

     you to drop in little put downs about me.  Why don't you just address the

issues

 and leave it at >>



I ADD:



Well Rob -  just had to jump in here.  I went back to school for the past 4

years to study the herbs that I have grown and used for the past 10 years in a

more formal venue.  I have had excellent texts, wonderful teachers, and

thoughtful lead-ins to where to go to get hands-on local training.  A list of

the books I recently recommended is in the archives with that post.



So every time I can help an ADD child stay off of ritalin -

Every time I can help an older person who can't take calcium pills supplement

with herbs -

Every time I can assist with the pain of rheumatoid arthritis (bypassing

narcotics) -

Every time I can help a migraine patient abort a headache without narcotics -

Every time I help a person lower their blood pressure without the side-effects

of the 

    allo-meds they have a reaction to -

Every time I can counterbalance the aftereffects of anesthesia -

Every time I can help a person avoid pneumonia (the deadly geriatric that is

making the

  rounds here) -

Every time I educate someone about the wonders of these gifted plants -

I am so glad I spent the bucks I did

AND - I'd do it again!



Mary L. Conley, MNH

The Conley Herb Farm & Learning Center

Be Natural Healing Arts Center/Silver Spring, Md.

Blue Dragon Tinctures & Teas /Catalogue thru Herbgrow30@aol.com

***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.













==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:57:13 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 06:21 AM 11/9/98 -0700, you wrote:



This exchange is an terrific example of all that is the very best of the new

technology called surfing the web. Finding a topic of interest on a mailing

list, you can listen in on a dissenting dialogue of two educated opinions,

and can thus learn and consider.



My compliments also to the chef!



Pat



>To herb@MyList.net from Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>:

>

>

>

>NEHrbSup@aol.com wrote:

>

>> To herb@MyList.net from NEHrbSup@aol.com:

>>

>> In a message dated 11/8/98 10:55:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>> turpin@netsavant.com writes:

>>

>> << There is no such thing as accredidation in the U.S.  Herbalism is not an

>>  accepted discipline nor is it technically legal.  Most of the schools I know

>>  of in the U.S. that teach about herbs, I feel are a waste of money. >>

>>

>> Rob,

>>

>> And what pray tell has given you this kind of insight and thought process.

>> while there may be no "official" accreditation of a particular facility,

there

>> are nevertheless some very good schools with some very very qualified

>> practitioners who know their craft very well.  please be specific about the

>> ones "you know of" that teach herbs that are of no value and please back up

>> your statement with something solid the rest of us on the list can look to.



>> peter

>

>    Peter,

>

>    I didn't mean anything derogatory because there is no accredidation in the

>U.S.  I was just making

>    this point to a person that asked a question about it.  What bothers me

most

>about schools of

>    herbalism in the U.S. is the amount of money charged for the education

>received.  And along with

>    this monetary commitment a person is learning a very precarious trade.

(i.e.

>there isn't any

>    sanctioned practice of it for "lay people")

>    I've also been around a few schools and known the people involved and the

>people who go to

>    said schools.  I'm not impressed.  There seems to be a lot of overly

>optimistic, flakey, individuals

>    who have simplistic notions about health and herbs and how to practice it.

>Obviously this is my

>    arrogant opinion.  I could probably go on for pages describing my opinion

>towards herbalism in

>    the west.  In a nutshell, I believe herbalism in the U.S. lacks depth,

a lot

>of depth.

>

>









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Henriette's school of thought

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:57:18 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 02:02 PM 11/9/98 GMT, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



>

>>I didn't mean anything derogatory because there is no accredidation in the

U.S.  

>

>You don't? Funny, your post does strike me as quite derogatory.



Ah, I see the bars are lowered for derogatory remarks. Bon! I agree with

you, Henriette:



>Among 20 students you'll -always- find about 3 who will become really good

>healers, 6 who will become good to mediocre healers, 6 who will do related

>things with their herbs (like growing them, or working in herb shops), and

>perhaps 5 who won't do anything at all with their education. .....



I have been in the employ of the traditional medical establishment all my

working life, but began to be disenchanted after 15-20 years. Now that I

think on it, it was about that period when the pharmaceuticals began to run

things. My teaching (yes, I also taught med tech microbiology students while

in private employment)--was that 5% of doctors were brilliant.  15% of

doctors are very, very good. 60% of doctors are mediocre, with good and poor

results. 15% of doctors are dangerous to your health and viability. And,

finally, 5% of doctors should be considered legally lethal. (I don't know

how I got by with that!) These %'s may have altered since I first recognized

them, but I fear not for the better. 



These opinions of mine are why I am seeking what I believe is a better way

through the shaking of hands between traditional and alternative medicine.

Both have support and hope to offer to the moderately ill. Neither has the

perfect deal to offer to the desperately ill, but (in my opinion) the first

has a great deal of alternate pain and grief to shoulder the responsibility

for in the name of Hippocrates. If the breach is engineered, we all will

benefit.



Just my own observations, you understand.



Pat



















==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Welcome back Paul

From: natalie pastor <npastor@mail.sdsu.edu>

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:53:28 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from natalie pastor <npastor@mail.sdsu.edu>:



I'm so glad to see Paul back on the list and not just for selfish reasons.



Paul you  figured out what was wrong with me last time I had a problem and

maybe ....



For 8 weeks I've had reoccurring (about every 10 days) swollen large dark

red splotches around my eyes (just over the sinus area). The splotches are

very hot and itchy at first, the skin looks as if it is burned. It is

obviously  heat and I would guess from my sinus area but I do not have a

sinus infection or any infection. Blood and urine shows nothing. Drs. put

me on Augmentin which did nothing. Now they say there is nothing wrong with

me. The splotches fade and then just when I think it's gone, POW it's back.

During the first 36 - 48 hours I feel like death warmed over (fever/chills,

fatigue chest pains, little congestion, headache, stomach upset,

depression, anxiety, anger). As the reddness fades I start to feel better.



I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions, many of which I am

trying. I do have an appointment with a naturopath this week.  This is

driving me crazy - it's gone on too long.



Natalie







Natalie Pastor

Editor/Publisher

Southwest Herbs

200 Highline Trail

El Cajon, CA 92021



npastor@mail.sdsu.edu









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Welcome back Paul

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:32:26 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



herb@MyList.net,Internet writes:

>For 8 weeks I've had reoccurring (about every 10 days) 



So you are looking at something that is accumulating and then being reduced,

only to accumulate again.



>

>swollen large dark

>red splotches around my eyes (just over the sinus area). The splotches are

>very hot and itchy at first, the skin looks as if it is burned. It is

>obviously  heat and I would guess from my sinus area but I do not have a

>sinus infection or any infection. 



That particular area is ruled by the stomach. What kind of weird things are you

doing to your stomach, do you drink coffee, and have you been irritable?



>

>Blood and urine shows nothing. Drs. put

>me on Augmentin which did nothing. Now they say there is nothing wrong with

>me. 



Well, that's a relief! :-)



>

>The splotches fade and then just when I think it's gone, POW it's back.

>During the first 36 - 48 hours I feel like death warmed over (fever/chills,

>fatigue chest pains, little congestion, headache, stomach upset,

>depression, anxiety, anger). As the reddness fades I start to feel better.



This is a pattern usually called 'Depressed Heat.' It is underlyingly a pattern

of Blood Heat combined with poor Liver function, I'll wager. In such a pattern,

there is usually chronic alcoholism, chronic menstrual problems, or longterm

drug use. In any case, therapy will focus on the Stomach, Liver, Kidneys, and

Blood (as understood by Chinese healing). 



Actually, this sort of Liver/Stomach problem is real common in Fall. Summer's

high expectations yield to Fall's practicalities, in some people better than

others.



Best,



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Welcome back Paul

From: Bo <bodacia@tdl.com>

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:30:16 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Bo <bodacia@tdl.com>:



At 10:50 PM 11/8/98 -0700, natalie pastor <npastor@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:



>I'm so glad to see Paul back on the list and not just for selfish reasons.

>

>Paul you  figured out what was wrong with me last time I had a problem and



I second that emotion.  In fact, the news of Paul's return pretty much made

my weekend.  And now I suppose I'd better update my "Where's Paul" web

page. ;)



BTW, Paul, I'm looking forward to spending some time at your new web site

once it's up and running--and would be interested to hear about what you've

been up to for the past year and a half...





ObHerb: Does anyone have (or know of) a list of "endangered" herb species?

Thanks.





-Bo

-------------------------------------------------------------------  

bodacia@tdl.com

http://www.tdl.com/~bodacia





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Welcome back Paul

From: Donna Ferrara <Ferrara@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU>

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:48:59 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Ferrara <Ferrara@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU>:



Ditto for me.  It is like seeing an old friend after many years!  What's

your new web site Paul?









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Welcome back Paul

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:37:12 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Ditto for me.  It is like seeing an old friend after many years!  What's

> your new web site Paul?



herb-room.com



I hope to have it running in ugly rudimentary form by midweek or so. I have a

web-designer working on the real deal, but I'm going to put up some text pages

in the interim. Bear with the low-tech of it, please.



I will be selling a full range of Chinese herbal formulas, some pamphlets of my

own writings, and eventually a bunch of other stuff. Short email consultations

with me ($30)(or the name of the recommending healer) are required for ordering

most of the formulas (by agreement with my supplier). The formulas are

traditional, unmodified, and very high quality (powders and capsules...I don't

believe in tinctures).



Also there will be essays on natural philosophy, Seasonal adaptation, Original

Endowment Taijiquan (TM)(which I teach), and even some writings on swimming. 



Eventually, I want to put a discussion list on the site, on a range of topics.



Glad to see so many friends are still here, and kudos to Henriette for having

the list firmly under her control. Thank you all for keeping out the welcome

mat!



Paul





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Testosterone in women and other interesting tidbits

From: "Vyrianna Lycorne" <lycorne@tiefling.net>

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:29:45 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Vyrianna Lycorne" <lycorne@tiefling.net>:









>>>To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



I was giving it a try since I read in James Dukes Green Pharmacy that it

contains beta-stosterol which has been found by research to help restore

libido in women. I could have sworn I read something that said it contained

testosterone, I'll be dumbfounded, I cant find it. I dig it up somewhere!

Thanks

Juli<<<



I wouldn't be all that surprised if it did contain testosterone.  Women's

bodies to produce testosterone in small quanaties.  and I have read else

where (source unknown at the moment) that it will help with ladies libido.

But I would see about making sure I was well rested and didn't have too much

stress first.  As tiredness and stress have a direct effect on anyones

libedo.



Another interesting fact for some of you out there.  There was a study dones

serveral years ago with women with slightly irregular cycles and problems

getting pregnant.  The study found that male sweat (or bo) from the underarm

area put on on her upper lip or by her nose would even out the female cycle

to a 29 1/2 cycle.  And a 29 1/2 day cycle is optimum for women concieving.

Sometimes it makes you wonder if someone other there didn't have a plan,

doesn't it?













==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Testosterone in women and other interesting tidbits

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:53:54 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 04:29 PM 11/8/98 -0600, you wrote:



Another tidbit: testosterone was the treatment of choice for osteoporosis, a

while back, but fell out of favor because it supposedly occ. caused facial

hair growth and deepening voice. I find that very amusing, as osteo. is

usually a disease of women over 60, and facial hair growth and deepening

voice go with that territory. Wonder what entrepreneur started that rumor,

and what was he selling instead?



See Dr.John Lee's book on progesterone, the precursor of estrogen and

testosterone. It will make your eyes blink like a rachet.



Pat





>To herb@MyList.net from "Vyrianna Lycorne" <lycorne@tiefling.net>:

>

>

>

>

>>>>To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

>

>I was giving it a try since I read in James Dukes Green Pharmacy that it

>contains beta-stosterol which has been found by research to help restore

>libido in women. I could have sworn I read something that said it contained

>testosterone, I'll be dumbfounded, I cant find it. I dig it up somewhere!

>Thanks

>Juli<<<

>

>I wouldn't be all that surprised if it did contain testosterone.  Women's

>bodies to produce testosterone in small quanaties.  and I have read else

>where (source unknown at the moment) that it will help with ladies libido.

>But I would see about making sure I was well rested and didn't have too much

>stress first.  As tiredness and stress have a direct effect on anyones

>libedo.

>

>Another interesting fact for some of you out there.  There was a study dones

>serveral years ago with women with slightly irregular cycles and problems

>getting pregnant.  The study found that male sweat (or bo) from the underarm

>area put on on her upper lip or by her nose would even out the female cycle

>to a 29 1/2 cycle.  And a 29 1/2 day cycle is optimum for women concieving.

>Sometimes it makes you wonder if someone other there didn't have a plan,

>doesn't it?

>

>

>

>

>









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Testosterone in women and other interesting tidbits

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:14:12 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<See Dr.John Lee's book on progesterone, the precursor of estrogen and

testosterone. It will make your eyes blink like a rachet.>>



Would you mind telling me what book you are referring to? I would like to

read it.

Thanks,

Maureen









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: List of endangered plants, was: Re: Welcome back Paul

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:03:54 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:30:16 -0800, Bo <bodacia@tdl.com> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>ObHerb: Does anyone have (or know of) a list of "endangered" herb species?

>Thanks.



That will always have to be local. Up here, for example, Arnica is severely

endangered, but you can find it in abundance in the Rocky mountains. And

Rhodiola rosea is almost impossible to find down here, but up in Lapland it's

fairly common.



A lot of endangered plant lists don't make sense at all. I saw one that had

Ginkgo on it - hehheh - that one has been practically extinct for the last 2000

years, and it's on a North American endangered plant list? On the same list the

plant "cyanide" was going extinct... I'd like to know what that one looks like. 



Seriously, you want a local botanist to point you to an endangered plant list,

you don't want it from anybody without a background in botany.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Plant healing vs. Industrial medicine, was Re(2): 

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:23:56 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> >I've also been around a few schools and known the people involved and the

> >people who go to said schools.  I'm not impressed.  There seems to

> be a lot  >of overly optimistic, flakey, individuals who have

> simplistic notions about  >health and herbs and how to practice it.



Maybe I shouldn't step into this fray, but you will eventually find out that

the above, quite accurate characterization is exactly the same with M.D. type

doctors---who by the way have FAR more dangerous chemicals and harmful

consequences in their form of therapy. 



Mediocrity is rampant in all quarters. But if you actually meet a plant healer

worth their salt, you are generally looking at a person deeply informed about

life. After all, they have the benefit of an ongoing, deliberate, intelligent,

insightful relationship with plants. 



PLANTS---in a billion different pharmacological factories of bioarchitecture,

quantum physics, and experimental biochemistry---have been converting sunshine

into beauty and harmony and indeed into abundant, verdant health FOREVER

compared to us. They are the MASTERS of adaptation, and we can sit at their

sides for years learning the secrets they have acquired in all that time.



[In that regard, our bodies ARE plants. So it is not surprising that they can

heal themselves if they have the benefit of interaction with their natural

companions in organic life.]



As well, plant healers gain sufficient contact with the MILDNESS and ORDER of

health variation that they are quite a bit more filled with insight into human

being than 99% of conventional doctors (and so they USE mild means in an

ORDERLY way). They are far less likely to dismiss pathogenic change as

unimportant or worthy of no therapy. True plant healers keep people alive in

the BROAD senses of that word---unlike doctors who too often reduce their

patients to lookalike appendages of a particular ILLNESS.



It remains true that the eye is already a microscope, even into the soul, if

you know how to use it. 



Bottom line? Media excitement about modern medicine aside, the entire practice

of so-called modern medicine is an exercise in technologically-butressed

flakeyness, founded on utterly simplistic notions of human health. They may

pull it off and discover the secret to removing illness from the body through

awesome technology. But will they understand the life they save?



Another .15 cents will make a quarter. :-)



Paul

(soon: herb-room.com)





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:23:52 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



Thanks for all your insights on Saw Palmetto for women!  And Henriettes

answer to what libido is :)! Now, valerian, two questions.  I see more and

more resources saying valerian is NOT addicting, after many years of seeing

that it was.  I'm confused (and why not? I like sedation herbs!)

Also, a friend was wondering if valerian extract had a short shelf life?  If

so that would explain why my old seem to not do anything, and my new

homemade stuff, is pretty darned ok. Any thoughts there?

Juli



Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com



Taking botanicals to the extreme!







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: Momcat3397@aol.com

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:02:37 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Momcat3397@aol.com:



Juli,

In my 25 years of experience, I have not seen a case of anyone becoming

addicted to valerian. As to your second question, the dried root does seem 

to lose potency over time but my tinctures seem to last longer, but I never 

seem to have any of either left by the time of the next harvest anyhow! 

Storing both forms in amber glass behind a solid cupboard door helps keep

them fresh as does keeping them in the cool end of the house ( not in the

room with the wood stove!).  Hope this helps.



Barbara Honors, Ethnobotanist

Momcat3397@aol.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:45:44 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:23:52 -0600, "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us> wrote

to <herb@MyList.net>:



>Now, valerian, two questions.  I see more and

>more resources saying valerian is NOT addicting, after many years of seeing

>that it was.  I'm confused (and why not? I like sedation herbs!)

>Also, a friend was wondering if valerian extract had a short shelf life?  If

>so that would explain why my old seem to not do anything, and my new

>homemade stuff, is pretty darned ok. Any thoughts there?



Old valerian roots don't die, they just smell that way.

Tinctures might not get stronger in the same way, but is your cap/lid tight?

There -are- volatile compounds in Valeriana...



You can't really say that Valeriana is addicting, it'll just take you over the

hill if you use it regularly for a week or more. Not so you need your daily fix,

just so you get jittery and weepy. And can't sleep, so you take more

Valeriana... 

This is more true of dried valerian than fresh (so use fresh root/herb tincture

please). And as always some individuals are more susceptible than others.



The aboveground parts are weaker than the root is, so you might try fresh tops

if you can't handle dried roots.

Centranthus ruber (red valerian, a relative) can be also used. It's far weaker

than Valeriana officinalis, and perhaps even weaker than V. edulis.



However, if you get a valerian hangover after one night on it then it's not the

herb for you. Try other sedatives, like passionflower, hops, Eschscholtzia,

lavender oil, Argemone... 

... and get off your caffeine habits, and at least go for a 30 min walk every

day.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:56:45 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



At 05:45 PM 11/10/98 GMT, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):

>

>On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:23:52 -0600, "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

wrote

>to <herb@MyList.net>:

>

>>Now, valerian, two questions.  I see more and

>>more resources saying valerian is NOT addicting, after many years of seeing

>>that it was.  I'm confused (and why not? I like sedation herbs!)

>>Also, a friend was wondering if valerian extract had a short shelf life?  If

>>so that would explain why my old seem to not do anything, and my new

>>homemade stuff, is pretty darned ok. Any thoughts there?

>

>Old valerian roots don't die, they just smell that way.

>Tinctures might not get stronger in the same way, but is your cap/lid tight?

>There -are- volatile compounds in Valeriana...

>

>You can't really say that Valeriana is addicting, it'll just take you over

the

>hill if you use it regularly for a week or more. Not so you need your

daily fix,

>just so you get jittery and weepy. And can't sleep, so you take more

>Valeriana... 

>This is more true of dried valerian than fresh (so use fresh root/herb

tincture

>please). And as always some individuals are more susceptible than others.

>

>The aboveground parts are weaker than the root is, so you might try fresh

tops

>if you can't handle dried roots.

>Centranthus ruber (red valerian, a relative) can be also used. It's far

weaker

>than Valeriana officinalis, and perhaps even weaker than V. edulis.

>

>However, if you get a valerian hangover after one night on it then it's

not the

>herb for you. Try other sedatives, like passionflower, hops, Eschscholtzia,

>lavender oil, Argemone... 

>... and get off your caffeine habits, and at least go for a 30 min walk every

>day.

>

>Cheers

>Henriette

>

>--

>Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

>http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

>      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

>Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...

>

>As Henriette points out, letting go of caffeine will help in sedation as

much as valerian or other sedating herbs.  Caffeine places a drain (so to

speak) on the adrenals and with heavy use can really deplete your body

tissues and systems.  You might find that nutritive herbs that restore body

tissues and functions are more soothing than sedating ones and certainly

will be more healthful in the long term.



I do recall knocking out my whole family one Sunday afternoon a few years

ago when we brewed an infusion of hops to sample the effects of that year's

harvest.  Boy did they snooze soundly within 20 minutes of sipping 4 ounces

or so.  No doubt about effectiveness, but they were all kind of

functionless for a couple of hours as well.



Good luck



Aliceann carlton

carlton@mint.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:48:34 -0700 (MST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Sedatives have their place, but you do need to watch your use and see

that it does not lead to abuse.



I personally don't see many people who  have had the opportunity to

become addicted to valerian yet, but the super standardized extracted

forms being pushed commercially by pharmaceutical companies lead me to

suspect that there is strong potential.  George Orwell wrote of

valerian-addicted housewives whose house smelled of the root and I've

seen other references.  It seems to have been one of the "mother's little

helpers" of the 19th century.



Look, many herbs have the ability to be abused.  Are you taking them so

you can continue a toxic lifestyle that does not nourish you?  Do you

_need_ to use sedatives to sleep?  It can be appropriate to use something

when there is a short period of unusual stress- but be aware that in

those times you can be more vulnerable to the pulls of addictions.  (I

remember the father of a friend who poured the whiskey down the drain

when she was widowed and advised her not to drink at all for at least a

year because he felt her vulnerability.  She appreciated his foresight

since they had seen friends pulled under in times of need.)



The best use of herbs is to nourish and to replenish you.  Oatstraw might

be a better strategy than valerian because it remineralizes you, builds

your nerve sheaths and can impart a sense of well-being.  (Valerian can

also make you more hyper if you are adrenally stressed, especially in

dried herb capsule form.)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:09:01 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 10:48 AM 11/10/98 -0700, you wrote:

>

>To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:

>

>Sedatives have their place, but you do need to watch your use and see

>that it does not lead to abuse.

>

>I personally don't see many people who  have had the opportunity to

>become addicted to valerian yet, but the super standardized extracted

>forms being pushed commercially by pharmaceutical companies lead me to

>suspect that there is strong potential.  George Orwell wrote of

>valerian-addicted housewives whose house smelled of the root and I've

>seen other references.  It seems to have been one of the "mother's little

>helpers" of the 19th century.

>

>Look, many herbs have the ability to be abused.  Are you taking them so

>you can continue a toxic lifestyle that does not nourish you?  Do you

>_need_ to use sedatives to sleep?  It can be appropriate to use something

>when there is a short period of unusual stress- but be aware that in

>those times you can be more vulnerable to the pulls of addictions.  (I

>remember the father of a friend who poured the whiskey down the drain

>when she was widowed and advised her not to drink at all for at least a

>year because he felt her vulnerability.  She appreciated his foresight

>since they had seen friends pulled under in times of need.)

>

>The best use of herbs is to nourish and to replenish you.  Oatstraw might

>be a better strategy than valerian because it remineralizes you, builds

>your nerve sheaths and can impart a sense of well-being.  (Valerian can

>also make you more hyper if you are adrenally stressed, especially in

>dried herb capsule form.)

>

>Karen Vaughan

>CreationsGarden@juno.com

>***************************************

>

I agree with Karen.  Although the addiction to valerian may be more like

the addiction to marijuana,  Not necessarily a physical addiction as would

happen with cocaine or heroin.   When using this type of herb you should

also attempt to treat the CAUSE of the problem that makes it seem necessary.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:32:11 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> >As Henriette points out, letting go of caffeine will help in sedation as

> much as valerian or other sedating herbs.  



Nope, sorry, that is the WRONG point of view. Valerian is not just a 'sedating

herb.' It is a very complex plant that has MANY effects on the body, psyche,

and energetic system. 



Removing caffeine from one's diet, certainly a good idea for the most part, is

not at all equivalent to taking valerian. For one thing, plants talk to you. If

you are taking valerian, you are having a conversation with that plant's

spirit. IF you don't believe that, and therefore don't foster that link to the

plants you use, you are certainly at least missing out on part of the benefit.



Removing 'caffeine' is one way of looking at soda intake, but coffee is not

caffeine. In other words, these are crude reductions. The actual processes are

far more complex, and rightfully so.



>Caffeine places a drain (so to

> speak) on the adrenals and with heavy use can really deplete your body

> tissues and systems.  You might find that nutritive herbs that restore body

> tissues and functions are more soothing than sedating ones and certainly

> will be more healthful in the long term.



It can also not be said that 'nutritive' herbs can replace a plant like

valerian and be 'more healthful in the long run.' Valerian can patch up things

that are quite broken...it is a powerful medicinal, and should not be viewed,

in my opinion at least, as merely a 'sedative,' as if the entire effect of the

plant is reduced to that. 



"Sure, sage smells good...so that's why natives smudge." That statement isn't

accurate, but another example of the same reductive model at play.



Regards,



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:25:29 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



Hi, Paul.  Thanks for your comments about Valerian and spiritual effects of

plants.  If you have followed any of my previous posts you are aware that I

place energetics and spirit as pre-eminent in healing practice of any kind.

Sorry if I seemed offhanded in my comments.  I practice Ayurvedic medicine

and of course am aware of the multiple effects of herbs on constitution and

well as vice versa.  I would underscore, however, the importance of

allowing the body to restore its own functions, adrenal or otherwise, and

supporting that process through good nutrition specifically selcted for

individual constitution, prior to embarking on additional complex herbs,

among them Valerian.



The person asking this question indicated that sedating substances are

appealing.  Without knowing what this means to her, I would still reserve

application of an herbal therapy until there was a greater understanding of

what  "sedating" means to her.  Perhaps I've spent too many years working

with people who have developed incredibly complex and damaging effects from

chasing every magic bullet that will bring ease to daily life when what may

be more needed is an increase in the ability to step into the fray and

remain steady and clear.



Peace,

Aliceann Carlton

carlton@mint.net







At 09:32 PM 11/10/98 -0800, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

>

>> >As Henriette points out, letting go of caffeine will help in sedation as

>> much as valerian or other sedating herbs.  

>

>Nope, sorry, that is the WRONG point of view. Valerian is not just a

'sedating

>herb.' It is a very complex plant that has MANY effects on the body, psyche,

>and energetic system. 

>

>Removing caffeine from one's diet, certainly a good idea for the most

part, is

>not at all equivalent to taking valerian. For one thing, plants talk to

you. If

>you are taking valerian, you are having a conversation with that plant's

>spirit. IF you don't believe that, and therefore don't foster that link to

the

>plants you use, you are certainly at least missing out on part of the

benefit.

>

>Removing 'caffeine' is one way of looking at soda intake, but coffee is not

>caffeine. In other words, these are crude reductions. The actual processes

are

>far more complex, and rightfully so.

>

>>Caffeine places a drain (so to

>> speak) on the adrenals and with heavy use can really deplete your body

>> tissues and systems.  You might find that nutritive herbs that restore body

>> tissues and functions are more soothing than sedating ones and certainly

>> will be more healthful in the long term.

>

>It can also not be said that 'nutritive' herbs can replace a plant like

>valerian and be 'more healthful in the long run.' Valerian can patch up

things

>that are quite broken...it is a powerful medicinal, and should not be viewed,

>in my opinion at least, as merely a 'sedative,' as if the entire effect of

the

>plant is reduced to that. 

>

>"Sure, sage smells good...so that's why natives smudge." That statement isn't

>accurate, but another example of the same reductive model at play.

>

>Regards,

>

>Paul

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:24:24 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



>  I would underscore, however, the importance of

> allowing the body to restore its own functions, adrenal or otherwise, and

> supporting that process through good nutrition specifically selcted for

> individual constitution, prior to embarking on additional complex herbs,

> among them Valerian.



In Chinese FORMULA herbalism we don't worry about 'allowing the body...' FIRST,

because the use of formulas already allows for such concerns in a graceful

manner. Chinese herbalism doesn't heavily rely on single-herbs like valerian,

so recommended use of that plant is like any other single herb: occasional.



[Nor, as an aside, do we think in terms of 'adrenals' or any of that

ninetheenth century pseudo-medical reduction.]



> The person asking this question indicated that sedating substances are

> appealing.  



I guess we're referring to different cases. I was responding to the idea that

plants are of no value in so-called spiritual crises. I don't share the fear of

valerian that seems to be the general view, because I have seen what it does in

such cases. It's not something I would put someone on for a daily regime.



>Without knowing what this means to her, I would still reserve

> application of an herbal therapy until there was a greater understanding of

> what  "sedating" means to her.  



Well, OK, if that is how you approach it. If sedation as I understand it is

necessary, I sedate. But that really is a kind of verbal game around the word.

Really, if Qi is abnormal, I normalize with the appropriate formula. What does

the patient know? All they have to do is moderate their lifestyle and swallow

the capsules.



>Perhaps I've spent too many years working

> with people who have developed incredibly complex and damaging effects from

> chasing every magic bullet that will bring ease to daily life when what may

> be more needed is an increase in the ability to step into the fray and

> remain steady and clear.



I don't psychologize...I just treat. I trust the formulas, because I know them

to be balanced in their scope and effect. The kinds of imbalancing worries

you're talking about don't really impact my practice. Then again, I don't treat

everyone and anyone, so perhaps you have the more valid context for such

concerns.



Best,



Paul





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 04:36:06 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



Lets see if I can clear up the "sedating" of my original post.  No, I dont

use it (valerian) everday, not even every week. I should have probably said

"calming" because thats really what I use it for, when my work day runs

right up to bed time, and Im wound tight.  I use other herbs alternately

like kava, chamomile and catmint, depending on the severity of calming /

sedation needed. I was concerned that valerian is physically addicting as

many older (books) resources lead to believe, taking the time and perception

of herbs 10 - 20 years ago in account.  I didnt know if there was scientific

proof either way.  I've been addicted to enough things, so I keep my

valerian use to a minimum. Anyways, everyones insights have been great and a

learning experience, I enjoy the different views.

Thank you!

Juli

-----Original Message-----

From: p_iannone@lamg.com <p_iannone@lamg.com>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Cc: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 10:38 PM

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question





>To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

>

>>  I would underscore, however, the importance of

>> allowing the body to restore its own functions, adrenal or otherwise, and

>> supporting that process through good nutrition specifically selcted for

>> individual constitution, prior to embarking on additional complex herbs,

>> among them Valerian.

>

>In Chinese FORMULA herbalism we don't worry about 'allowing the body...'

FIRST,

>because the use of formulas already allows for such concerns in a graceful

>manner. Chinese herbalism doesn't heavily rely on single-herbs like

valerian,

>so recommended use of that plant is like any other single herb: occasional.

>

>[Nor, as an aside, do we think in terms of 'adrenals' or any of that

>ninetheenth century pseudo-medical reduction.]

>

>> The person asking this question indicated that sedating substances are

>> appealing.

>

>I guess we're referring to different cases. I was responding to the idea

that

>plants are of no value in so-called spiritual crises. I don't share the

fear of

>valerian that seems to be the general view, because I have seen what it

does in

>such cases. It's not something I would put someone on for a daily regime.

>

>>Without knowing what this means to her, I would still reserve

>> application of an herbal therapy until there was a greater understanding

of

>> what  "sedating" means to her.

>

>Well, OK, if that is how you approach it. If sedation as I understand it is

>necessary, I sedate. But that really is a kind of verbal game around the

word.

>Really, if Qi is abnormal, I normalize with the appropriate formula. What

does

>the patient know? All they have to do is moderate their lifestyle and

swallow

>the capsules.

>

>>Perhaps I've spent too many years working

>> with people who have developed incredibly complex and damaging effects

from

>> chasing every magic bullet that will bring ease to daily life when what

may

>> be more needed is an increase in the ability to step into the fray and

>> remain steady and clear.

>

>I don't psychologize...I just treat. I trust the formulas, because I know

them

>to be balanced in their scope and effect. The kinds of imbalancing worries

>you're talking about don't really impact my practice. Then again, I don't

treat

>everyone and anyone, so perhaps you have the more valid context for such

>concerns.

>

>Best,

>

>Paul







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: Momcat3397@aol.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:32:00 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Momcat3397@aol.com:



Karen,

You raises interesting possibilities regarding the potential for misuse of

valerian

(and other plants), particularly the bit about the standardized extracts.

Perhaps

the reason I have not seen this among people I have advised is that most of

them

are athletes or other highly physically active people using valerian

temporarily 

for its muscle relaxant properties while dealing with an injury. I get very

few requests for advice regarding "sedatives", maybe because of the stress-

reducing effect of

exercise. Thanks for providing your experience with a more diverse population.



Barbara Honors, Ethnobotanist

Momcat3397@aol.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 05:45:27 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I was concerned that valerian is physically addicting as

> many older (books) resources lead to believe, taking the time and perception

> of herbs 10 - 20 years ago in account.  I didnt know if there was scientific

> proof either way.  I've been addicted to enough things, so I keep my

> valerian use to a minimum.



I think the word is 'habituating.' I don't think physical addiction is the way

to view this [though I certainly would be SUPERGLAD if anyone would simply

decide to IGNORE the so-called scientific proof of anything, including

gravity].



You describe the way to use the plant successfully. It does a lot more than

calm you down (and certainly LESS than all this handwringing would suggest).



With love,



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:57:24 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 10:25 PM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:



Aliceann, what you say is quite true, no doubt. But---what do you do for

those UNABLE to step into the fray--and,how many are able to diagnose, and

prognose, and guide; where are they when needed, and at what price?? Is the

freedom to choose more accessable and affordable relief , for the weaker of

us, a diabolical entrapment to avoid at all cost?

Your statement, tho undoubtably true, seems cold and shallow to me in the

present medical climate. It is to paternal, and denies to much of the human

condition.



Pat



>The person asking this question indicated that sedating substances are

>appealing.  Without knowing what this means to her, I would still reserve

>application of an herbal therapy until there was a greater understanding of

>what  "sedating" means to her.  Perhaps I've spent too many years working

>with people who have developed incredibly complex and damaging effects from

>chasing every magic bullet that will bring ease to daily life when what may

>be more needed is an increase in the ability to step into the fray and

>remain steady and clear.

>

>Peace,

>Aliceann Carlton

>carlton@mint.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:28:07 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



Hi, Pat--



Your point is well taken.  My comments would indeed seem shallow unless you

knew what I meant by "willingness to step into the fray"  For the past

fourteen years I have worked among the survivors of every act of enmity,

rage, violence, and torture imaginable--some as survivors of war and POW

experiences, others who daily face violence and death at home.  Then there

are those who, as a result of mental health treatment, were so

compassionately subjected to involuntary hospitalizations in the 1940s and

1950s as the children who were "bad"  or who had enough of the spark of

life following sexual or physical abuse and neglect to "act out"  They, by

the thousands, were treated with electroshock, degradation, devastating

drugs and "behavioral modification"  They survived by virtue of human will

and what one person once described to me as "the brush of an angel's wing

against my hand."  Each continues on daily trying to simply get through the

day with a degree of self-worth and for the most part, with a generous and

open heart that recognizes and enfolds others who are beyond the boundaries

of "the good life." 



Yes, we as a society are weary and stressed beyond the ability to take on

more, but we do anyway.  I will often suggest that herbs like valerian,

hops, kava kava, nutmeg, chamomile, mints, catnip etc will ease the

distress that prevents any sense of ease or rest.  Of course there is a

place for all these, but not to the exclusion of building up the physical,

mental, and spiritual body to deal with the wraths and the joys of life.

So if I seemed cavalier, I apologize, nor do I believe that we must all

experience equal suffering to share the burdens of humanity.  You are aware

I am sure of the folks to whom I refer who have decided that there should

be no discomfort in a day, and that if enough supplements, enough mantras,

enough rituals are employed, all aspects of life will be comfortable.  They

suffer grievously when the fantasy goes awry, and my heart breaks with

theirs as the cold rains and east winds chill their hearts and souls.  For

these people, the act of compassion is to lead them to awareness of how to

tolerate pain as well as how to rejoice in bliss.  





At 07:57 PM 11/13/98 -0500, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:

>

>At 10:25 PM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:

>

>Aliceann, what you say is quite true, no doubt. But---what do you do for

>those UNABLE to step into the fray--and,how many are able to diagnose, and

>prognose, and guide; where are they when needed, and at what price?? Is the

>freedom to choose more accessable and affordable relief , for the weaker of

>us, a diabolical entrapment to avoid at all cost?

>Your statement, tho undoubtably true, seems cold and shallow to me in the

>present medical climate. It is to paternal, and denies to much of the human

>condition.

>

>Pat

>

>>The person asking this question indicated that sedating substances are

>>appealing.  Without knowing what this means to her, I would still reserve

>>application of an herbal therapy until there was a greater understanding of

>>what  "sedating" means to her.  Perhaps I've spent too many years working

>>with people who have developed incredibly complex and damaging effects from

>>chasing every magic bullet that will bring ease to daily life when what may

>>be more needed is an increase in the ability to step into the fray and

>>remain steady and clear.

>>

>>Peace,

>>Aliceann Carlton

>>carlton@mint.net

>

>

>

Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:40:40 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



Hi Pat--

Thank you for your message and for your articulate expression of the grief

that tears at the soul of our country.  You are eloquent in your

description and very correct in assessing the burden of despair. This angst

reaches deep into the lives of many who know that they should be happy in

their lives and work yet who do not experience one moment of comfort no

matter what.  They are tired--tired of waking at 4 and working until late

at night, heartsick at having to wake their children from sleep to get them

to daycare because there is no other choice, and sick of feeling empty

physically, emotionally, and spiritually.   If there is a way that

exploring herbs and the lifestyle changes that are part of the herbal

traditions can restore a sense of wholeness and connection, then any step

in this direction is a help.  My plea is to combine the wisdom of herbal

treatment with awareness that our minds and beliefs often paralyze us into

a state of "I can't" when indeed, as others daily demonstrate, we can--and

emerge larger and more whole in the process.



Peace,

Aliceann





At 01:48 PM 11/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:

>

>At 09:28 PM 11/13/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:

>

>Hello, Aliceann...

>

>Your post shames me, for I have never seen physical nor mental horrors like

>you describe. My protest was for the massive numbers of middle class

>americans who went through the stock market crash, the dirt poor farmers who

>were unable to survive the dust bowl, the young who felt unable to leave

>their homes to go lay down their lives in a foreign country for reasons

>which they couldn't believe in---the mama's who couldn't bear to let them--

>the husbands who face the current unspeakable batches of dismisals of the

>almost retired;and also including the stoic wives who are mis-married and

>trying to deal with it daily.

>

>There are so many less monstrous personal tales of wearing, grinding

>emotional pain that are not in the class of heroics you are speaking of, but

>which none-the-less tug at my heart, too. I don't believe that to critisize

>this angst as moral weakness, or to withhold plants which strangely have

>been discovered to ease the burden for a while, is helpful. History records

>the ubiquitous use of these plants for the less than brave."Most men live

>lives of quiet dignity", but for those whose upper lip was not formed in the

>same mold, we mustn't withhold relief, because I do not believe such people

>are made in Hollywood movies where they suddenly see the light and run

>joyfully into the fray. And there just aren't enough free psychiatrists to

>go around, you know.

>

>I think we see things in very much the same way, and I'm very interested in

>your concepts; I see they are honorable and positive. Perhaps we diverge

>only in that the degree of pain we speak of is not of equal nature, or that

>treating it would be of value. I believe that some people try to swim away

>from the Titanic, while some stand calmly on the bridge, and some simply

>fold up and scream in abject terror. There seldom seems time or capability

>to lead the latter to calm acceptance.

>

>We are all so unique. As in the old TV show: "There are a million stories in

>NYC--this is one of them..." 

>

>>.... They, by

>>the thousands, were treated with electroshock, degradation, devastating

>>drugs and "behavioral modification"  They survived by virtue of human will

>>and what one person once described to me as "the brush of an angel's wing

>>against my hand."  Each continues on daily trying to simply get through the

>>day with a degree of self-worth and for the most part, with a generous and

>>open heart that recognizes and enfolds others who are beyond the boundaries

>>of "the good life." 

>>

>>Yes, we as a society are weary and stressed beyond the ability to take on

>>more, but we do anyway.  I will often suggest that herbs like valerian,

>>hops, kava kava, nutmeg, chamomile, mints, catnip etc will ease the

>>distress that prevents any sense of ease or rest.  Of course there is a

>>place for all these,

>

>I agree with you, but I think your next comment unrealistically optimistic: 

>

>>....

>but not to the exclusion of building up the physical,

>>mental, and spiritual body to deal with the wraths and the joys of life.

>>So if I seemed cavalier, I apologize, nor do I believe that we must all

>>experience equal suffering to share the burdens of humanity.  You are aware

>>I am sure of the folks to whom I refer who have decided that there should

>>be no discomfort in a day, and that if enough supplements, enough mantras,

>>enough rituals are employed, all aspects of life will be comfortable. 

>

>Yeah, boy, the young of today's world fit that bill for sure!

>

>>They suffer grievously when the fantasy goes awry, and my heart breaks with

>>theirs as the cold rains and east winds chill their hearts and souls.  For

>>these people, the act of compassion is to lead them to awareness of how to

>>tolerate pain as well as how to rejoice in bliss.

>

>And I wish you well Donna Quizote! I really do....

>

>Pat  

>

>

>>At 07:57 PM 11/13/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>>To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:

>>>

>>>At 10:25 PM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>>

>>>Aliceann, what you say is quite true, no doubt. But---what do you do for

>>>those UNABLE to step into the fray--and,how many are able to diagnose, and

>>>prognose, and guide; where are they when needed, and at what price?? Is the

>>>freedom to choose more accessable and affordable relief , for the weaker of

>>>us, a diabolical entrapment to avoid at all cost?

>>>Your statement, tho undoubtably true, seems cold and shallow to me in the

>>>present medical climate. It is to paternal, and denies to much of the human

>>>condition.

>>>

>>>Pat

>>>

>>>>The person asking this question indicated that sedating substances are

>>>>appealing.  Without knowing what this means to her, I would still reserve

>>>>application of an herbal therapy until there was a greater

understanding of

>>>>what  "sedating" means to her.  Perhaps I've spent too many years working

>>>>with people who have developed incredibly complex and damaging effects

from

>>>>chasing every magic bullet that will bring ease to daily life when what

may

>>>>be more needed is an increase in the ability to step into the fray and

>>>>remain steady and clear.

>>>>

>>>>Peace,

>>>>Aliceann Carlton

>>>>carlton@mint.net

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:

>>

>>Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

>>underway ....

>>

>>Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

>>including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

>>made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.

>>

>>

>

>

>

Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Smoke Smell...YUCK

From: Seylerl@aol.com

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:25:11 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Seylerl@aol.com:



Help... just purchased a new abode.... one room in particular must have

belonged to a smoker... does anyone have any herbal relief.... what might I

use to get rid of the smell.  I've tried traditional cleansers...yet the smell

lingers.



Any and all input would be GREATLY appreciated!

Lisa





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Smoke Smell...YUCK

From: "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net>

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:44:09 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net>:



Hi Lisa



>one room in particular must have

>belonged to a smoker... does anyone have any herbal relief.... what might I

>use to get rid of the smell.  I've tried traditional cleansers...yet the

smell

>lingers.



I seem to remember something about placing a shallow saucer of vinegar in

the room and leaving it.



I have never tried it, but don't have smokers here.....



Not herbal, ........

Good luck!



Wendy

wvardy@bconnex.net











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Smoke Smell...YUCK

From: j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski)

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:22:17 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from j_iris@juno.com (Jennifer Kiliszewski):



leave an open canof coffee in the room, worked for a friend of mine



___________________________________________________________________

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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Smoke Smell...YUCK

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 21:26:18 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Help... just purchased a new abode.... one room in particular must have

> belonged to a smoker... does anyone have any herbal relief.... what might I

> use to get rid of the smell.  I've tried traditional cleansers...yet

> the smell lingers.

> 

> Any and all input would be GREATLY appreciated!

> Lisa



This may sound strange logically, but smudge the room with white sage or what

have you. Good for your soul and your nose.



Paul





==========

To: "herb@MyList.net" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: strong herbs

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:36:53 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



I have several old formulary books as well as materia medica. Is there 

any new info out there on herbs such as digitalis, vitirum, poke ect. 

I have been told that this is only for the MD but these were commonly 

in use  by the village healers for hundreds of years. I don't want 

this information to be lost we may need it someday. Thanks Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: strong herbs

From: "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:42:27 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>:



Hi Donna,



I don't have an answer to your question, but I do have a question for you

- if you don't mind.  Have you ever run across any information on

Knapweed?



With formulary books, sounds like you may be a wealth of information.



Pat



Donna Magee wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:

>

> I have several old formulary books as well as materia medica. Is there

> any new info out there on herbs such as digitalis, vitirum, poke ect.

> I have been told that this is only for the MD but these were commonly

> in use  by the village healers for hundreds of years. I don't want

> this information to be lost we may need it someday. Thanks Donna











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: strong herbs

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:50:39 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



P. Hironimus wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>:

> 

> Hi Donna,

> 

> I don't have an answer to your question, but I do have a question for you if you don't mind.  Have you ever run across any information on Knapweed?



Hi strange you should ask-I found a knapweed in my garden this year so 

I just had to find out about it. The only place I found it so far is 

in Mrs Grieve's books. She says the roots and seeds are used and its 

diaphoretic, diuretic and tonic. There is also mention of it for mucus 

and colds. Hope this helps Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: strong herbs

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:47:56 -0700 (MST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Actually, I think that strong herbs are for the experienced herbalist,

not a MD who probably has no, or only rudimentary training.



Digitalis is particularly tricky and there are less dangerous herbs

available to use in cardiac conditions.  I would personally avoid it.



I love poke and use it often, but I wouldn't want it sold in every health

food store because all those "more is better" consumers who disrespect

the strength of herbs could quickly learn a lesson that would bring the

FDA down upon us.  Poke is best used in drop doses- I usually start with

5 drops twice a day, add a drop until gastric symptoms are felt then step

back two drops.  I've had people who couldn't tolerate 3 drops bid and

people who can go to 15 tid.  I think poke is available to teach us about

minimal dosing- a construct that is especially difficult for Westerners. 

I've also noticed that poke seems to be growing closer to people in

places where it didn't grow before- almost like it is saying with its

strong red stems and striking purple berries, "Look at me.  I can help

your immune system deal with the scourges of civilization."



Keep the information in the formularies available because current herbs

could become less useful- for reasons of cultivation, the

biological-cultural matrix we operate in, and changes in our internal

(and bacteriological) biology.  But we do have more information on some

long term effects which should lead us to avoid some of the poison-class

herbs.

  

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatoes, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:36:53 -0400 Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:

>

>I have several old formulary books as well as materia medica. Is there 

>

>any new info out there on herbs such as digitalis, vitirum, poke ect. 

>I have been told that this is only for the MD but these were commonly 

>in use  by the village healers for hundreds of years. I don't want 

>this information to be lost we may need it someday. Thanks Donna

>



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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: strong herbs

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:04:08 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 09:36 AM 11/10/98 -0400, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:

>

>I have several old formulary books as well as materia medica. Is there 

>any new info out there on herbs such as digitalis, vitirum, poke ect. 

>I have been told that this is only for the MD but these were commonly 

>in use  by the village healers for hundreds of years. I don't want 

>this information to be lost we may need it someday. Thanks Donna

>

You may find these herbs discussed in advanced courses of clinical

herbology.  They certainly are not herbs to toy with.  They are powerful

and dangerous.  ALL herbs should be treated as such.   The knowledge is not

lost.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Henriette's School of thought(long)

From: Kathryn Bensinger <kbensin@mail.state.tn.us>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:34:14 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kathryn Bensinger <kbensin@mail.state.tn.us>:



YOU WROTE:

 <snip> I disagree with your opinion about all of the excellent new

 books.  I think most books about herbs don't offer much <snip>

 

 I ADD:

 I agree with you to some extent on the books. I am a mostly self-taught 

 herbalist.  By reading books and going to hear any speaker who came within 

 a 1/2 days driving distance, then "practicing" what I learned to add 

 experience and intuition, I have been growing, studying and using herbs for 

 a bit over 25 years.   I did participate in a formal apprenticeship to become 

 a direct entry midwife.

 

 Over the years I have collected an extensive library of herb and healing

 books.  My personal collection has over 500 items and I have read many more

 borrowed from friends and libraries.  Many of the books just repeat in a

 different format with different pictures, what has already been covered by

 another book.   Most do not go into enough depth to answer many of the

 things I have questioned over the years.   Some repeat herbal myths as fact

 and some have mis-information - - - ESPECIALLY the kind of errors made by

 someone who just collects data and recipes without ever practicing the

 information.

 

 However, there ARE some good new ones, you just have to pick them out of

 the same old, same old.  I would have paid big bucks back in 1973 to have

 the beginners books by Ody, Weed, & Murray and as I gained experience - the

 stuff written by Moore and the mass info provided by Pederson.  But I had

 to wait for them to gain the experience to write their books and in the

 meantime I gained mine.  Even those writings I don't agree with teach me

 something, even if just by forcing me to identify why I don't agree.  And

 it IS important to compare how other schools think. 

 

 To buy a useful book, get one written by a long time PRACTICING herbalist

 who is respected by his/her peers, preferably one who is also teaching.  It

 is very important to understand which school of thought the herbalist

 practices.  One of the great confusions of my early study days was reading

 two books, both by well respected herbalists, which seemed to be in total

 disagreement with each other.  The confusion stemmed from my lack of

 understanding of the different diagnostic systems and my unfamiliarity with

 the terminology.  And don't expect one book to be able to tell you

 everything you need to know about a disease or a plant, it's a book, not a 

 set of encyclopedias.

 

 Then grow, taste, and use the herbs you are reading about.  No one can have

 a true understanding of herbs or the healing process from pure academic

 studies. It is a bit like learning to drive a standard shift car.  You can

 know where all the gears are and where the clutch is, and understand all

 the steps but until you actually practice a bit you don't really know how

 and are probably going to stall the vehicle and grind the gears a few

 times.



 Lastly, stay on this list and others like it.  Don't let the ocassional flame 

 get to  you.  It is a great way learn the "jargon", interpret the acronyms and

to   discuss the things you can't find answers for in the books.  The lists also 

 help get a  international perspective so missing unless you can afford to 

 travel alot.   Just my 2 cents,

 KB





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Inner Ear??

From: bonbon1947@webtv.net (Bonnie Davis)

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:46:21 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from bonbon1947@webtv.net (Bonnie Davis):



I'm waiting for a callback from my MD, but I wanted to get some advice

from the list also.

Last night about midnight, I felt like I had been smacked in the head,

then the room started violently spinning.  Also had severe nausea.  Any

time I moved (I was in bed), everything started again.  The intensity

has subsided, but my head wants to go one way and my body the other way!

The nausea persists also persists after 12 hours.  It's not easy typing

this while sitting either.



I suspect inner ear problems, however, there is no pain, just a little

bit of a muffled pressure sensation in one ear.



Any help with combatting this would be appreciated.  Common herbs (?) if

possible since I can't drive right  now.  TIA.



Bonnie







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Inner Ear??

From: "Antti Hovi" <AHOVI@latkk.lpt.fi>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:41:09 EETDST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Antti Hovi" <AHOVI@latkk.lpt.fi>:



> From:           bonbon1947@webtv.net (Bonnie Davis)

> Date sent:      Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:46:21 -0600 (CST)

> To:             herb@MyList.net

> Subject:        Inner Ear??

> Send reply to:  herb@MyList.net

Sounds very much like Menier s disease. Room spinning around, severe 

nausea, worse of even slight movement and getting better after about 

12 hours are all typical. Muffled pressure sensation in one 

ear is exactly the same as in Menier s disease also. Usually comes 

back again after one month, sometimes even only 2-3 weeks. Sometimes 

after many months.

If your MD agrees, general guidelines for Menier s disease are:

-avoid stress, excess alcohol, excess salt, excess coffee

-try to go to bed early enough, don t stay awake all night

-try to have enough physical excercise, but  moderately, don t overdo 

The attack feels horrible first, but if it is Menier s disease you 

will feel allright most of the time and the attack lasts only for one 

day, pressure in ear little longer, some days.

I think others can give advice of special herbs, for inner ear 

circulation and nausea.

I hope this helps.

Antti Hovi

antti.hovi@helsinki.fi



> To herb@MyList.net from bonbon1947@webtv.net (Bonnie Davis):

> 

> I'm waiting for a callback from my MD, but I wanted to get some advice

> from the list also.

> Last night about midnight, I felt like I had been smacked in the head,

> then the room started violently spinning.  Also had severe nausea.  Any

> time I moved (I was in bed), everything started again.  The intensity

> has subsided, but my head wants to go one way and my body the other way!

> The nausea persists also persists after 12 hours.  It's not easy typing

> this while sitting either.

> 

> I suspect inner ear problems, however, there is no pain, just a little

> bit of a muffled pressure sensation in one ear.

> 

> Any help with combatting this would be appreciated.  Common herbs (?) if

> possible since I can't drive right  now.  TIA.

> 

> Bonnie

> 

> 







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Inner Ear??

From: Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:14:18 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>:





This sounds like an attack ?infection in the labyrinthe gland in your ear.

I have had this.  It always happens when you are laying down.  You go to

bed just fine.  You wake up, open your eyes, and the room spins violently,

violently fast around and you are nauseated by the spinning.  At this point

you try to rush to the bathroom to vomit but you sort of have to throw

yourself from wall to wall to get there because you are not in

control....you swear you are having a heart attack or something.  IF you

would have laid there and closed your eyes again, the spinning would have

stopped and started again when you opened them again.  IF you had someone

look in your eyes they would flicker strangely.



This runs its course and gets better in a day or so without treatment. But

you should take Gravol to settle your stomach. When the actual "attack" is

over you still feel nauseated and a little dizzy for a day or so.  You

should just keep your head still and don't use your eyes too much, like

watching TV etc.



This is a very scarey experience, but is not harmful to you.  Good that you

check with your MD to make sure this is all it is.

















At 12:46 PM 11/10/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from bonbon1947@webtv.net (Bonnie Davis):

>

>I'm waiting for a callback from my MD, but I wanted to get some advice

>from the list also.

>Last night about midnight, I felt like I had been smacked in the head,

>then the room started violently spinning.  Also had severe nausea.  Any

>time I moved (I was in bed), everything started again.  The intensity

>has subsided, but my head wants to go one way and my body the other way!

>The nausea persists also persists after 12 hours.  It's not easy typing

>this while sitting either.

>

>I suspect inner ear problems, however, there is no pain, just a little

>bit of a muffled pressure sensation in one ear.

>

>Any help with combatting this would be appreciated.  Common herbs (?) if

>possible since I can't drive right  now.  TIA.

>

>Bonnie

>

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Inner Ear??

From: Jwynn0706@aol.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:24:07 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Jwynn0706@aol.com:



In a message dated 98-11-11 12:04:51 EST, you write:



<< This sounds like an attack ?infection in the labyrinthe gland in your ear.

 I have had this.  It always happens when you are laying down.  You go to

 bed just fine.  You wake up, open your eyes, and the room spins violently,

 violently fast around and you are nauseated by the spinning.  At this point

 you try to rush to the bathroom to vomit but you sort of have to throw

 yourself from wall to wall to get there because you are not in

 control....you swear you are having a heart attack or something.   >>



about a year ago i experienced this very thing.every time i woke up or

moved my head,i would get extremly dizzy and throw up and almost

pass out.it lasted 4 days until i decided to see a doctor who told me

that it was an inner ear infection.is this the same thing as the labyrinthe

gland? i was given antibiotics and was fine after a couple of days of taking

them.but 5 months later it happened again and was put on more antibiotics.

im scared to death of it ever happening again because you really feel

out of control and violently ill.is it common to keep getting these inner ear

infections? any herbs to help prevent this?

           





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Cayenne Tincture

From: "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>

Date: 10 Nov 1998 16:16 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>:



I would like to make some cayenne tincture from fruits harvested in my backyard.

The purpose for this tincture would be to 'warm' the body - to improve my blood 

circulation for winter.  My question is as follows:



I have many banana peppers (hot), serranos, and jalepenos - can I include those

in my tincture to get the same effect?





Thank you for your time







Tony







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Cayenne Tincture

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:51:59 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



You can mix the hot peppers for a tincture.



However I find that my cayenne infused oils are hotter and more effective

than my cayenne tinctures.  And my tincture was at least 1:2.5 dry

cayenne.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On 10 Nov 1998 16:16 EST "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca> writes:

>I would like to make some cayenne tincture from fruits harvested in my 

>backyard.

>The purpose for this tincture would be to 'warm' the body - to improve 

>my blood circulation for winter.  My question is as follows:

>

>I have many banana peppers (hot), serranos, and jalepenos - can I 

>include those in my tincture to get the same effect?

___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: "herb@MyList.net" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Green Pecan Hulls

From: Cindi <rlcz@netdoor.com>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:38:34 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Cindi <rlcz@netdoor.com>:



Hi all!



My grandmother told me that there were herbal properties in green pecan

hulls, but was unsure of what they are. Does anyone on the list know?



Thanks!!



Cindi Zemaiduk

Vicksburg, Mississippi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Green Pecan Hulls

From: Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:37:21 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>:



cindi,

 the best we could come up with is they are used like black walnut hulls

but a little more bitter..

the information was hard to fine..

this would come under folk medicine since there is no studies we could find

Lucinda Jenkins

Glenbrook Farms Herbs and Such

Fine Teas, Herbs, Spices. Fine Quality Soaps

http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Green Pecan Hulls

From: Kat11559@aol.com

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:25:29 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:



So what do you do with the Hulls?  Of Black walnut or pecan?



Kathrine





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Green Pecan Hulls

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:27:49 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 05:38 PM 11/10/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Cindi <rlcz@netdoor.com>:

>

>Hi all!

>

>My grandmother told me that there were herbal properties in green pecan

>hulls, but was unsure of what they are. Does anyone on the list know?

>

>Thanks!!

>

>Cindi Zemaiduk

>Vicksburg, Mississippi

>

>

>

If my memory serves me, they would be similar to black walnut hulls.  Dr.

Christopher used walnut hulls to treat a number of men during WWI for

trench rot.  These guys would get an infection on the head that would crust

over and cause them to lose hair.  The MD's had no treatment for it that

was successful.  So he sent off for some walnut hulls, made a strong

decoction and applied soaked rags directly to the area for a couple weeks.

It was successful every time and he gained quite a reputation during the

war.  They probably have lots of tannins, are probably astringent and may

be stimulating.  I'd have to search my library for direct information.







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Quitting smoking

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:58:15 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



Ok, one more and Ill leave the list alone for awhile!  I know this has been

on here and I will go through the archives when I can.  My other half is

going to quit a two pack habit over Thanksgiving weekend.  He is open to

herbal help.  I need the skinny on the best product, or blend, please....no

mlm hype or sales pitches chances are, I'll be buying it through my

wholesaler anyway.  I've been through this a few times with him now, and I

think this is going to be the first serious effort, and has asked for a bit

of help with patience and anything else.

Thanks for your help again guys, I know I've been throwing out alot lately,

you've been a great help.

Juli



Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com



Taking botanicals to the extreme!







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Quitting smoking

From: Kat11559@aol.com

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:31:11 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:



I can tell you from personal experience that, for me the best thing was to

taper of slowly, if you are opposed to using the patch, then do it on a basis

of 10% less cigarettes per day till you are down to none.  Peppermint candy

seems to be helpful as well as calming teas.  Cold turkey is unpleasant at

best.  Good luck.



Kathrine





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Quitting smoking

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:50:31 -0700 (MST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Check Howie Brounstein's site on smoking herbs (link on Henriette's

page).  It might help if he smokes some of these to wean down.  A few of

the "patches" contain lobeline from lobelia.  It might work to wear a

compress of infused or tinctured lobelia, but I've never had anyone try

it.  (If he does, report back!)



(I recently came across a $50 bottle no-smoking aid that contained

nothing but plantain.  Don't know if it works, but if it does try your

lawn before the health food store.)



Kava, oatstraw, scullcap or other antianxiety herbs can help.  Eating

"Fire" foods like roasted red peppers, raddicchio, kale, escarole,

dandelion greens, shrimp, strawberries, apricots, unsweetened chocolate

(say in Mexican sauces), to displace the "Fire" category cigarettes can

help diminish the cravings.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:58:15 -0600 "Juli Kight"

<castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

>Ok, one more and Ill leave the list alone for awhile!  I know this has been

>on here and I will go through the archives when I can.  My other half is

>going to quit a two pack habit over Thanksgiving weekend.  He is open to

>herbal help.  I need the skinny on the best product, or blend, please....no

>mlm hype or sales pitches chances are, I'll be buying it through my

>wholesaler anyway.  I've been through this a few times with him now, and I

>think this is going to be the first serious effort, and has asked for a bit

>of help with patience and anything else.

>Thanks for your help again guys, I know I've been throwing out alot lately,

>you've been a great help.

>Juli



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Quitting smoking

From: "aanda" <aanda@ptd.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:20:20 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "aanda" <aanda@ptd.net>:



I quit after 10 years of smoking and my dh quit too.  Its not an easy thing

to do, but I can assure you that once it is done he'll wonder why it was so

hard to quit.  We both quit cold turkey.  What helped us is that we set a

date to quit and stuck with it.  I used fruit flavored certs everytime I

wanted a cig and my dh use twislers (licorice).  The candy as a replacement

was very helpful.  Also when the craving kicked in we used deep breathing

exercises to get us through the urge.  I hope some of this helps.  Good luck

to you dh and to you too!

Ak

-----Original Message-----

From: Juli Kight <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 7:01 PM

Subject: Quitting smoking





>To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

>

>Ok, one more and Ill leave the list alone for awhile!  I know this has been

>on here and I will go through the archives when I can.  My other half is

>going to quit a two pack habit over Thanksgiving weekend.  He is open to

>herbal help.  I need the skinny on the best product, or blend, please....no

>mlm hype or sales pitches chances are, I'll be buying it through my

>wholesaler anyway.  I've been through this a few times with him now, and I

>think this is going to be the first serious effort, and has asked for a bit

>of help with patience and anything else.

>Thanks for your help again guys, I know I've been throwing out alot lately,

>you've been a great help.

>Juli

>

>Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

>http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

>The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com

>

>Taking botanicals to the extreme!

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Quitting smoking

From: "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:07:08 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>:



These are some of the things I've run across to stop smoking:



Slippery Elm

Lobelia

Licorice Root

Vitamin C with Bioflav's.



Pat



Kat11559@aol.com wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:

>

> I can tell you from personal experience that, for me the best thing was to

> taper of slowly, if you are opposed to using the patch, then do it on a basis

> of 10% less cigarettes per day till you are down to none.  Peppermint candy

> seems to be helpful as well as calming teas.  Cold turkey is unpleasant at

> best.  Good luck.

>

> Kathrine







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Seizure Disorder

From: "Mitzi Miceli" <mitzeli@prodigy.net>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:07:01 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Mitzi Miceli" <mitzeli@prodigy.net>:



First Welcome Back Paul, you were

sorely missed.



I posted a while back for help with

a seizure disorder.  Allopathic medicine

for this is terribly destructive to the 

body, the liver and bone marrow in

particular.



I researched for herbal assistance and

could only find skullcap (anti spasmodic)

and valerian (sedative), but no real

answers to finding the underlying

unbalance.  I understand there is a peak

in brain function which renders the person

unconscious, sometimes falling, sometimes

jerking and shaking, other times just   

pausing.



Does anyone have any thoughts on

what may be the underlying cause? 



Mitzi Miceli        mitzeli@prodigy.net

Dead fish always go with the flow.











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:51:11 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I researched for herbal assistance and

> could only find skullcap (anti spasmodic)

> and valerian (sedative), but no real

> answers to finding the underlying

> unbalance.  I understand there is a peak

> in brain function which renders the person

> unconscious, sometimes falling, sometimes

> jerking and shaking, other times just   

> pausing.



Such illnesses should be treated by constitutional homeopathy, in my opinion.

There are a range of diagnoses...but if the cause is familial, this is such a

deep dysharmony that the strict homeopathic approach is the safest, most

effective route. 



That said, it is certainly possible to support the health of such a person,

using plants. But that isn't the same as eliminating the danger of a seizure.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:10:53 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/11/98 12:52:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



<< 

 Such illnesses should be treated by constitutional homeopathy, in my opinion.

 There are a range of diagnoses...but if the cause is familial, this is such a

 deep dysharmony that the strict homeopathic approach is the safest, most

 effective route. 

 

 That said, it is certainly possible to support the health of such a person,

 using plants. But that isn't the same as eliminating the danger of a seizure.

 

 Paul

 

  >>

Not so long ago I put myself on a homeopathy list. I was surprised to discover

how down they are on herbs. They view them as drugs and dislike them as much

as an allopathic doctor dislikes them. One of their views is that herbs are

used to treat symptoms as allopathic medicines does, and does not look for the

cause. While some people do this, in general, my understanding is to find the

source or cause of the problem with herbs and not just treat the symptom. I

only mention this Paul, because you stress homeopathy which makes me wonder if

you think herbs are only for treating symmptoms and not the cause? I hope I am

wrong. 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:17:51 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Not so long ago I put myself on a homeopathy list. I was surprised

> to discover how down they are on herbs. They view them as drugs and

> dislike them as much as an allopathic doctor dislikes them. One of

> their views is that herbs are used to treat symptoms as allopathic

> medicines does, and does not look for the cause. 



The various divergent theories of homeopaths is not what I was talking about.

Nor am I discussing the prejudices of most homeopaths. What I am referring to

is proper homeopathic therapy for constitutional diseases that are generally

not able to be cured by herbs. 



>While some people

> do this, in general, my understanding is to find the source or cause

> of the problem with herbs and not just treat the symptom. 



In a constitutional disease such as under discussion, you cannot find the

'source or cause' using naturopathic or Chinese models. That's because the

problem is an INHERITED cause, lost to the history of the family, in most

cases.



>I only

> mention this Paul, because you stress homeopathy which makes me

> wonder if you think herbs are only for treating symmptoms and not

> the cause? I hope I am wrong. 



You are.



Best,



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder

From: Debbie McDonald <lullwatr@flash.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:37:42 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Debbie McDonald <lullwatr@flash.net>:



> In a constitutional disease such as under discussion, you cannot find the

> 'source or cause' using naturopathic or Chinese models. That's because the

> problem is an INHERITED cause, lost to the history of the family, in most

> cases.

>

Vaccines can cause seizure disorder. My dog seizes from a Rabies vaccine. There

are homeopathic treatments for pre/apre' vaccines and for vaccinosis. Consuming

nutrasweet can cause a seizure disorder. I have had mild seizures from drinking

tons of nutrasweet.  

-- 





       Debbie McDonald



  mailto:lullwatr@flash.net





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:04:22 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> That's because the

> > problem is an INHERITED cause, lost to the history of the family, in most

> > cases.

> >

> Vaccines can cause seizure disorder. My dog seizes from a Rabies

> vaccine. 



Neither case is pertinent, because the effect is still energetic, and still

relies on the constitutional weaknesses from the family. The Chinese system

SPECIFICALLY excludes such illnesses from the list of cures available. Causes

become weaknesses become tendencies become limitations. A Chinese healer can

treat all of that except the cause. Homeopathy is designed to 'treat' the cause

(actually the body does the work) of inherited illness. Chinese healing, herb

healing in general, is either naturopathic (restoring balance upset by

lifestyle and environment) or humoral (balancing the forces of the body). These

kinds of chronic illness are not naturopathic or humoral, though they certainly

have problems in those domains as auxilliary causes.



>There are homeopathic treatments for pre/apre' vaccines and

> for vaccinosis. 



There is homeopathic nonsense for all sorts of stuff. That's not what I'm

talking about.



>Consuming nutrasweet can cause a seizure disorder. I

> have had mild seizures from drinking tons of nutrasweet.  



Castor beans can cause death, but that again is not the point. You are talking

about acute poisoning, and I am talking about chronic illness.



Paul

[coming this week: herb-room.com]





==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Just a thought

From: "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:26:33 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>:



All of this talk about the different uses of herbs got me thinking last

night.  Boy did I scare my self.  More and More people are learning that

herbs can help with a lot of things, which is great, but bad at the same

time.  Such as my boyfriends mother, she drinks a lot, smokes occasionally,

eats fast food all the time, but she heard that echinica(sp?) helps with

colds, so now ever time she feels a cold coming on she takes some.  Of

course it helps a little but not like it would if she was healthy in the

first place, so now she thinks it is not that great of an herb.  Which is

making me think that after about 3 years of this herb craze people are going

to discredit herbs, because they are not like allopathic medicines, you can

not just treat the effect but must find out the cause to.  So now every time

someone tells me they are going to take this herb for this problem I tell

them with out changing your killing lifestyle the herb will do nothing.  Is

this right?



Thank you,

Rachael Boyer

HR Assistant

512-912-3121





-----Original Message-----

From: p_iannone@lamg.com [mailto:p_iannone@lamg.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 11:32 PM

To: herb@MyList.net

Cc: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thanks, and a valerian question





To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> >As Henriette points out, letting go of caffeine will help in sedation as

> much as valerian or other sedating herbs.  



Nope, sorry, that is the WRONG point of view. Valerian is not just a

'sedating

herb.' It is a very complex plant that has MANY effects on the body, psyche,

and energetic system. 



Removing caffeine from one's diet, certainly a good idea for the most part,

is

not at all equivalent to taking valerian. For one thing, plants talk to you.

If

you are taking valerian, you are having a conversation with that plant's

spirit. IF you don't believe that, and therefore don't foster that link to

the

plants you use, you are certainly at least missing out on part of the

benefit.



Removing 'caffeine' is one way of looking at soda intake, but coffee is not

caffeine. In other words, these are crude reductions. The actual processes

are

far more complex, and rightfully so.



>Caffeine places a drain (so to

> speak) on the adrenals and with heavy use can really deplete your body

> tissues and systems.  You might find that nutritive herbs that restore

body

> tissues and functions are more soothing than sedating ones and certainly

> will be more healthful in the long term.



It can also not be said that 'nutritive' herbs can replace a plant like

valerian and be 'more healthful in the long run.' Valerian can patch up

things

that are quite broken...it is a powerful medicinal, and should not be

viewed,

in my opinion at least, as merely a 'sedative,' as if the entire effect of

the

plant is reduced to that. 



"Sure, sage smells good...so that's why natives smudge." That statement

isn't

accurate, but another example of the same reductive model at play.



Regards,



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Just a thought

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:45:47 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/11/98 12:27:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com writes:



<< 

 All of this talk about the different uses of herbs got me thinking last

 night.  Boy did I scare my self.  More and More people are learning that

 herbs can help with a lot of things, which is great, but bad at the same

 time.  Such as my boyfriends mother, she drinks a lot, smokes occasionally,

 eats fast food all the time, but she heard that echinica(sp?) helps with

 colds, so now ever time she feels a cold coming on she takes some.  Of

 course it helps a little but not like it would if she was healthy in the

 first place, so now she thinks it is not that great of an herb.  Which is

 making me think that after about 3 years of this herb craze people are going

 to discredit herbs, because they are not like allopathic medicines, you can

 not just treat the effect but must find out the cause to.  So now every time

 someone tells me they are going to take this herb for this problem I tell

 them with out changing your killing lifestyle the herb will do nothing.  Is

 this right?

  >>

In my opinion, she would have been like that anyway, probably running for some

alopathic drug instead. If she refuses to quit smonking and eat right, what

can be done? Nothing. I dont think there is anything to be afraid of. As long

as you educate yourslef and learn the right way to use things. There will

always be people who choose to do things the foolish way. It has nothing to do

with herbs. :) I coubt that over a period of time people will discredit herbs

any more than they already have. LOL Herbs have been used in ancient healing

in all cultures before one can even remember. They aren't going to go away now

just because some people have their negeative opinions. So, don't worry so

much. Smile. :) And yes, in my opinion you are doing right by telling that

taking an herb without changing their killing lifestyle won't give sufficient

help, though I woudln't balme it all on the one herb echinacea. Herbs are a

lifestyle in themslef. It takes time and endeavor/desire to do that. Many

don't want to. They just want a quick fix. 



<3Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Just a thought

From: Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:43:36 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com>:







Boyer, Rachael wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>:

>

>  Such as my boyfriends mother, she drinks a lot, smokes occasionally,

> eats fast food all the time, but she heard that echinica(sp?) helps with

> colds, so now ever time she feels a cold coming on she takes some.  Of

> course it helps a little but not like it would if she was healthy in the

> first place, so now she thinks it is not that great of an herb.  Which is

> making me think that after about 3 years of this herb craze people are going

> to discredit herbs, because they are not like allopathic medicines, you can

> not just treat the effect but must find out the cause to.  So now every time

> someone tells me they are going to take this herb for this problem I tell

> them with out changing your killing lifestyle the herb will do nothing.  Is

> this right?

>



I think you made a very good point.  I also believe that modern life has helped

people develop some poor habits.  I think for many imbalances it can be very

difficult to be of any help because most people won't consider altering a few

"bad" habits that could help alleviate their condition.  I think it is very

appropriate to emphasize to someone that some changes could be made in their

life.  A little more discipline.  If they feel it's not important, oh well.  At

least you have given your honest appraisal and opinion of what could be done.  I

think any healing modality, be it alternative or even allopathic, can have a

hard time treating people.  After all, it's not like we're mechanics.  A person

can't just show up and expect to be fixed. (Although many times this is the

attitude that people have).  At best, we can offer a helpful nudge in the right

direction but, most of the responsibility lies with the person seeking help.

Even when you give people herbs, a lot of times they don't even have the

discipline to take them.   I can't force feed it to them.



One more point.  I think another attitude that is prevalent in modern society is

to get something quick and easy.  This colors people's attitudes towards how

they deal with their own health.   The importance of lifestyle is stressed in

many alternative approaches to health but, I feel this attitude is poorly

practiced.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Just a thought

From: muscle@televar.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:41:38 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from muscle@televar.com:



On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:43:36 -0700 Rob Turpin <turpin@netsavant.com> wrote:



>One more point.  I think another attitude that is prevalent in modern

>society >is to get something quick and easy.  This colors people's

>attitudes towards how

>they deal with their own health.   The importance of lifestyle is stressed in

>many alternative approaches to health but, I feel this attitude is poorly

>practiced.





I'd like to expand on your thoughts here Rob. First, I agree fully with

what you're saying. "QUICK and EASY" fixes, are more desirable for modern

society, than long term preventative lifestyles.



Years ago, I studied through a division of health known as "Natural

Hygiene." One of the things stressed very strongly in their teachings in

the journey toward superior health, is to shun any sort of exogenous agents

claimed to "heal" ones body. This means pharmaceuticals as well as HERBS.

Though the hygienists have many very sound, logical approaches toward a

high level of health, I don't necessarily agree with EVERYTHING they

proclaim. The one tenet about herbs always bothered me. In fundamental

*theory* though, I believe they are VERY CORRECT. And what I mean by this,

IS this. That a body or physiological organism that has been cared for with

the natural means it is designed to thrive on (whole uncooked foods

offering superior nutrition, pure water, clean air, adequate sleep,

sufficient exercise and a positive mental attitude/outlook), will NOT

depend on other things to encourage that physiological balance known as

"homeostasis."



My own experience shows, as well as what I've witnessed in others, that

even though herbal remedies offer great assistance with certain health

maladies, a great many of those circumstances for which they are called

upon, wouldn't even be necessary, if a lifestyle was followed, that

included the above mentioned fundamental requisites. The sad truth is

though, so many people are NOT interested in following a path of what

really promotes and encourages health. So they end up degrading their

health day after day, year after year, then expect in a matter of DAYS, to

reverse a condition that could have been prevented in the first place if

proper principles were followed. We live in a twisted modern society bent

on the search for the "magic bullet." The funny thing is, for the most

part, it's hidden in each and every one of our pockets. It's there for the

taking, but it DOES take effort.



My position on the herbal approach to health is that it should be

conservative, and just like drugs, the majority of herbs should be used as

a last resort. I'm currently studying under a school on the subject, as I

DO BELIEVE herbs have their place. But knowing what I DO about health and

the simple steps necessary to preserve the ever wise faculties of the body,

I fully realize that herbs need to be used with scrutiny, conservatively,

and with the understanding that they are not always going to change a

condition that has been taking place in the form of degradation over the

course of a lifetime. Sometimes, the damage done is beyond repair. And no

amount of ANYTHING except *maybe* the possible wisdom of the body itself

will be able to alter that course of doom. And that's only if there's

enough vital force in reserve to see to that end, as well as the conditions

being set, that allow that spontaneous healing to take place.



Just my nickel on the subject.



John L.









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Just a thought

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:52:13 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



Boyer, Rachael wrote:

> 

> I tell

> them with out changing your killing lifestyle the herb will do nothing.  Is  this right?

> 

> Thank you,

> Rachael Boyer

> HR Assistant

> 512-912-3121

> 

Your are quite right-There is a huge difference between healing and 

symptom management.I have had the most terrible time with clients when 

I tell them they must take care of them selves and rest. When I tell 

someone to take a day off they look at me as if I had just shot them.I 

see people devalue themselves every day. What I really don't want to 

see is herbs becomming a treatment for symptoms and lack the real 

purpose behind them. Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Just a thought

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:15:00 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



Donna Magee wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:

> 

> Boyer, Rachael wrote:

> >

> > I tell

> > them with out changing your killing lifestyle the herb will do nothing.  Is  this right?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Rachael Boyer

> > HR Assistant

> > 512-912-3121



This is a yes and no answer I have found for some it must be taken in 

small steps. Perhaps the person can start by sitting still for 15 

minutes. This can be hard for some.Perhaps incorporating just one herb 

into there diet will be a good start. If they can increase there 

overall health with tonic herbs and feel better they may have the 

incentive to do more.I found out real fast you can't suggest change  

without telling them how. Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Just a thought

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:19:11 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 11:26 AM 11/11/98 -0600, you wrote:

>

>To herb@MyList.net from "Boyer, Rachael" <rboyer@crystal.cirrus.com>:

>

>All of this talk about the different uses of herbs got me thinking last

>night.  Boy did I scare my self.  More and More people are learning that

>herbs can help with a lot of things, which is great, but bad at the same

>time.  Such as my boyfriends mother, she drinks a lot, smokes occasionally,

>eats fast food all the time, but she heard that echinica(sp?) helps with

>colds, so now ever time she feels a cold coming on she takes some.  Of

>course it helps a little but not like it would if she was healthy in the

>first place, so now she thinks it is not that great of an herb.  Which is

>making me think that after about 3 years of this herb craze people are going

>to discredit herbs, because they are not like allopathic medicines, you can

>not just treat the effect but must find out the cause to.  So now every time

>someone tells me they are going to take this herb for this problem I tell

>them with out changing your killing lifestyle the herb will do nothing.  Is

>this right?

>

>

This type of thing has been going on for centuries.  If herbs haven't been

discredited by now because of a few people who don't know what they're

doing, I doubt if it will happen any time soon.  I don't think this is a

"craze".  Certain herbs are pushed by marketers at certain times but there

are getting to be more and more qualified and knowledgeable herbalists as

well.  Just 5 years ago you couldn't find a Chinese herbalist anyplace.

Now there's even one in my remote town in Alaska along with 2

acupuncturists.  The AMA journal recently devoted its pages to alternative

medicine including herbs.  More and more herbal information is becoming

available to pharmacists and MD's.  No, I don't think herbs will be

discredited.  They work.  They work well.  They work when other methods

fail.  It's the beginning, not the end.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: vitex

From: oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon)

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:44:06 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon):



I am writing a short article on vitex for a wonderful (alternative)

parenting newsletter.  

If anyone has anything of interest, or personal anecdotes, etc. I would

love to hear them. 

Blessings~

Nell

Mother, student midwife, eagerly learning herbalist, happily writing

stories....



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: vitex

From: "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:47:55 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>:



I use vitex as now I am beginning premenopausal stages and have found it

works great!  It has helped with the headaches I get the day of onset of

menses.  I praise the Chasteberry for its natural estrogenic effects.



Just my .02 worth

Marcia Wilson

Journeywoman Herbalist





----------

> From: October Moon <oct-moon@juno.com>

> To: herb@MyList.net

> Subject: vitex

> Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 4:44 PM

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon):

> 

> I am writing a short article on vitex for a wonderful (alternative)

> parenting newsletter.  

> If anyone has anything of interest, or personal anecdotes, etc. I would

> love to hear them. 

> Blessings~

> Nell

> Mother, student midwife, eagerly learning herbalist, happily writing

> stories....

> 

> ___________________________________________________________________

> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: vitex

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:53:16 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<I praise the Chasteberry for its natural estrogenic effects.>>



Why is it that wit all the research I have doen on this herb it has pointed

to the herb being responsible for increasing progesterone levels in the

body? I haven't read anything about increasing estrogen. Any others with

more info?

Maureen







~

MoJim Rottweilers

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/2855

E-Mail: Rotty4Me@tdstelme.net

ICQ# 4074962, AOL IM: CoolRotty







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: vitex

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:11:49 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:53:16 -0500, "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:



>Why is it that wit all the research I have doen on this herb it has pointed

>to the herb being responsible for increasing progesterone levels in the

>body? I haven't read anything about increasing estrogen. Any others with

>more info?



Vitex is not estrogenic, it strengthens the progesterone phase.



Problem is, if you've a weak progesterone phase, you've a weak corpus luteum,

and that's a finite thing. The corpus luteum is what's left over from the

follicle once the egg has left, and it'll die once you menstruate. If you get

pregnant the hypothalamus will tell the pituitary to let out a bit more

luteinizing hormone, and the corpus luteum will hang on in there for about 2

more months, until the placenta can take over progesterone production. (if you

have morning sickness you know exactly when the placenta has taken over: you

have no more morning sickness. Some corpus luteums stay alive -all- through

pregnancy...) 



So the corpus luteum lives just a short time, normally, and the main things

which induce it to put out progesterone in 2- or 3-hour cycles, instead of the

normal 4- or 5-hour cycles (which makes it live longer) are:

  adrenaline

  adrenergic stress, which is -also- added to by caffeine

  alcohol



PMS: -most- cases of PMS come about because the corpus luteum and thus

progesterone drops out from under you before you're ready for menses. So, all of

a sudden the estrogen gets through (you still have estrogen from fat deposits),

and aldosterone (usually up and about more in your progesterone phase, not in

your estrogen phase), normally suppressed by progesterone, now strengthened by

estrogen, gets to your kidneys, telling them to retain water please, we seem to

have thick blood (or whatever it is they tell the kidneys) - so you have

pre-menstrual edema, a heavy feeling ("a walking pig bladder", and perhaps a

real temper.



If you take Vitex during your progesterone phase (from ovulation to menses) your

corpus luteum, and thus your progesterone phase, will last longer, usually until

you're ready for menses - it won't die prematurely. Voila, no PMS - for -most-

cases of PMS. You -also- need to let go of stress, if at all possible, as that

too will shorten your progesterone phase. 



Menopause: at the end of the reproductive line our eggs are sort of low-browed,

crosseyed, and drag their knuckles along the ground. As the corpus luteum comes

out of the egg that's chosen for this month, a bad egg is a bad corpus luteum.

Especially these eggs/follicles/corpus lutei you want to nurse along gently,

gently, with things like Vitex.



I could go on forever on this but I'll stop here.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: vitex

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:59:41 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<I could go on forever on this but I'll stop here.>>



Well thank you for the info you shared. I am anxious to try this herb. If

you know of other sources with more info on the chaste berry or vitex,

please send them my way!

Thanks,

Maureen













==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: vitex

From: "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:19:43 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>:



Would this be why if I take Vitex for the first 2 weeks of the month or

until menses begins it is really helping me?



I must have misunderstood about the estrogenic effect of the chasteberry. I

got my info from Dr. James Duke's book called "The Green Pharmacy".  Here

is what is says (Surely he won't mind my quoting him this one paragraph):



"The biochemistry is complicated, but basically chasteberry regulates

hormones involved in the menstrual cycle.  It increases luteinizing hormone

production and inhibits the release of follicle-stimulating hormone."



He finishes the paragraph with this statement, which must be where I got

confused.

"All of this translates into a beneficial estrogenic effect."



I am very happy you explained this to me and helped straighten this out. 

It makes more sense now that I have read yours and Maureen's posts.  Thank

you again for posting this information.  You people are great!   Now you

see why I am only a Journeywoman herbalist??? :-)



A little less confused,

Marcia Wilson

Journeywoman Herbalist





----------

> From: Henriette Kress <HeK@hetta.pp.fi>

> To: herb@MyList.net

> Subject: Re: vitex

> Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 12:11 AM

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):

> 

> On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:53:16 -0500, "Maureen Hicks"

<rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

> wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:

> 

> >Why is it that wit all the research I have doen on this herb it has

pointed

> >to the herb being responsible for increasing progesterone levels in the

> >body? I haven't read anything about increasing estrogen. Any others with

> >more info?

> 

> Vitex is not estrogenic, it strengthens the progesterone phase.

> 

> Problem is, if you've a weak progesterone phase, you've a weak corpus

luteum,

> and that's a finite thing. The corpus luteum is what's left over from the

> follicle once the egg has left, and it'll die once you menstruate. If you

get

> pregnant the hypothalamus will tell the pituitary to let out a bit more

> luteinizing hormone, and the corpus luteum will hang on in there for

about 2

> more months, until the placenta can take over progesterone production.

(if you

> have morning sickness you know exactly when the placenta has taken over:

you

> have no more morning sickness. Some corpus luteums stay alive -all-

through

> pregnancy...) 

> 

> So the corpus luteum lives just a short time, normally, and the main

things

> which induce it to put out progesterone in 2- or 3-hour cycles, instead

of the

> normal 4- or 5-hour cycles (which makes it live longer) are:

>   adrenaline

>   adrenergic stress, which is -also- added to by caffeine

>   alcohol

> 

> PMS: -most- cases of PMS come about because the corpus luteum and thus

> progesterone drops out from under you before you're ready for menses. So,

all of

> a sudden the estrogen gets through (you still have estrogen from fat

deposits),

> and aldosterone (usually up and about more in your progesterone phase,

not in

> your estrogen phase), normally suppressed by progesterone, now

strengthened by

> estrogen, gets to your kidneys, telling them to retain water please, we

seem to

> have thick blood (or whatever it is they tell the kidneys) - so you have

> pre-menstrual edema, a heavy feeling ("a walking pig bladder", and

perhaps a

> real temper.

> 

> If you take Vitex during your progesterone phase (from ovulation to

menses) your

> corpus luteum, and thus your progesterone phase, will last longer,

usually until

> you're ready for menses - it won't die prematurely. Voila, no PMS - for

-most-

> cases of PMS. You -also- need to let go of stress, if at all possible, as

that

> too will shorten your progesterone phase. 

> 

> Menopause: at the end of the reproductive line our eggs are sort of

low-browed,

> crosseyed, and drag their knuckles along the ground. As the corpus luteum

comes

> out of the egg that's chosen for this month, a bad egg is a bad corpus

luteum.

> Especially these eggs/follicles/corpus lutei you want to nurse along

gently,

> gently, with things like Vitex.

> 

> I could go on forever on this but I'll stop here.

> 

> Cheers

> Henriette

> 

> --

> Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

> http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

>       /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

> Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: vitex

From: HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:34:21 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:19:43 -0600, "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com> wrote

to <herb@MyList.net>:



>Would this be why if I take Vitex for the first 2 weeks of the month or

>until menses begins it is really helping me?



>From ovulation to menses is the best time to take Vitex. In terms of the

menstrual cycle that's the last two weeks of the "month".



>I must have misunderstood about the estrogenic effect of the chasteberry. I

>got my info from Dr. James Duke's book called "The Green Pharmacy".  Here

>is what is says (Surely he won't mind my quoting him this one paragraph):

>

>"The biochemistry is complicated, but basically chasteberry regulates

>hormones involved in the menstrual cycle.  It increases luteinizing hormone

>production and inhibits the release of follicle-stimulating hormone."



Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) stimulates the follicle to produce estrogen.

The follicle becomes the corpus luteum once the egg has left, and FSH does not

affect the corpus luteum. Before the positive feedback crescendo of estrogen

which leads to ovulation the hypothalamus throws out an hormone which stimulates

the pituitary into putting out FSH.

Luteinizing hormone (LH) stimulates the corpus luteum to produce progesterone.

After ovulation the pituitary is induced to put out LH. As far as I know the

pituitary puts out only one or the other, not both at the same time. However, if

any of you know better feel free to correct me.



All this is of course only true unless you have polycystic ovaries, in which

case any of the stimulating hormones will stimulate any of the hormone producing

tissue trapped under the shell of scar tissue, to produce any number of very

closely related hormones. Trying to make a specific hormone, but failing

miserably under the influence of that same hormone, produced earlier and now

floating around -in- that bubble. Thus, adding perhaps a limb here, a molecule

there, making -broken- hormones. Like estrogen, progesterone, testosterone (yes,

also in women), estradiol, and look-alikes. Until the bubble bursts and the

hormone producing tissue finally is reabsorbed. At which time you can breathe

for a while, until a follicle trapped under the same bit of scar tissue repeats

the feat... which means that once you had a cyst it's easier for you to get

another. So, polycystic ovaries.

I ramble...



>"All of this translates into a beneficial estrogenic effect."



Nope, it translates to a strengthening of the progesterone phase of your cycle.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: RE: vitex

From: "rpschmid" <rpschmid@public.cta.cq.cn>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:47:11 +0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "rpschmid" <rpschmid@public.cta.cq.cn>:



I was wondering how vitex then would effect women suffering

with Endometriosis?  Or women with an estrogen dominance

problem??  Any input on this?



Also are there any herbs which would help boost the body and

aid in the reabsorbtion of the blood left in the abdomen

monthly due to endometriosis??



Thanks Diane







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: vitex

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:59:14 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:47:11 +0800, "rpschmid" <rpschmid@public.cta.cq.cn> wrote

to <herb@MyList.net>:

>I was wondering how vitex then would effect women suffering

>with Endometriosis?  Or women with an estrogen dominance

>problem??  Any input on this?



Nobody else reply to this either? I think you want to visit a professional. 

That way, if we do put a lot of time into your endometriosis, we get paid for

it. You don't want a quick fix...



Can't find a practising herbalist? There's some hints in the medicinal herbfaq,

part 6.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: vitex

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:19:53 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



> ----------

> > From: Henriette Kress <HeK@hetta.pp.fi>

> > To: herb@MyList.net

> > Subject: Re: vitex

> > Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 12:11 AM

> >

> > To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):

> >

> > Vitex is not estrogenic, it strengthens the progesterone phase.



This sounds like it would work well with pro-gest cream,I'm using it 

to equal out my cycle during perimenopause, has anyone used both? 

Donna





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: vitex

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:39:07 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<I am very happy you explained this to me and helped straighten this out.

It makes more sense now that I have read yours and Maureen's posts.  Thank

you again for posting this information.  You people are great!   Now you

see why I am only a Journeywoman herbalist??? :-)>>



And believe me, that is alot more than I am! <G> The reason I was so quick

to jump at your post is that I have very low progesterone levels & the

estrogen hanging out there alone has wreaked havoc on my body. I have done

it all as far as synthetic & even some natural progesterones, but this berry

seems to be different in the way it works. I wanted to make sure that it

definately doesn't raise estrogen levels but helps raise the progesterone.

Thanks for brining up the topic & the one line at the end of the paragraph

you quoted has me wondering too...

Maureen









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: vitex

From: diana.rae@autodesk.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:10:17 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from diana.rae@autodesk.com:



Henriette,



> If you take Vitex during your progesterone phase (from 

> ovulation to menses) your corpus luteum, and thus your 

> progesterone phase, will last longer, usually until

> you're ready for menses - it won't die prematurely.



What effect then, do you think Vitex would have on women attempting to

become pregnant?



:D







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: vitex

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:39:09 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:10:17 -0800, diana.rae@autodesk.com wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>> If you take Vitex during your progesterone phase (from 

>> ovulation to menses) your corpus luteum, and thus your 

>> progesterone phase, will last longer, usually until

>> you're ready for menses - it won't die prematurely.

>

>What effect then, do you think Vitex would have on women attempting to

>become pregnant?



Miscarriages in the first trimester can occur because the corpus luteum gives

out before the placenta takes over progesterone production.



Sure, you can try taking Vitex, and if it helps, be happy. But if you've

problems with infertility you might consider visiting a professional for a full

evaluation - lifestyle changes are often advised, and an outside person can see

you clearly.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: vitex

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:05:52 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



In talking about Vitex does anyone know what a proper dose of the herb would

be in using a tincture? I would think a certain amount needs to be used to

get the desired affect on stimulating the proper hormones?

Maureen









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: vitex

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:07:27 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:05:52 -0500, "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:



>To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:

>In talking about Vitex does anyone know what a proper dose of the herb would

>be in using a tincture? I would think a certain amount needs to be used to

>get the desired affect on stimulating the proper hormones?



As there are different strengths of tinctures you have to check dosage in the

same materia medica which gives you ratios and EtOH percentages. Or, if you buy

the tincture, dosage should be on the label.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Saw Palmetto and stopping hair loss

From: muscle@televar.com

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:11:38 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from muscle@televar.com:



Howdy!



Been listening to the talk lately about Saw Palmetto and female libido.

Interesting stuff...



I was wondering something. It's my understanding that Saw Palmetto is

useful for not only subsiding the problem of MPH (male prostatic

hypertrophy) but because it blocks certain hormononal effects, that it's

also useful for curbing hair loss. Any experienced herbalists on the list

care to comment on that?



And how about topical applications for reversing hair loss? Is there

anything "herbal" that WORKS? I know the allopaths have the ROGAINE market

plugged up. SO since there's a pharmacuetical product out there that's been

proven to regrow HAIR, is there an herbal parallel that does the same job,

for less cost, with better results, and less toxicity?



Thanks for any input anyone with direct experience can relay.



Regards,



John L.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Health ain't cheap, but it's less expensive than dyin'!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++













==========

To: Medicinal and Aromatic Plants list <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: irradiated & fumigated herbs

From: Ray Bayley <silwit@SUBA.COM>

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:46:02 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Ray Bayley <silwit@suba.com>:



8-21-98 Kathryn Bensinger wrote

>(3) The government requires that all imported herbs be either

>fumigated or irradiated to prevent insects and other nasties

>from "sneaking" over the borders.  This adds to the already

>contaminated plant.



Somewhere I had read that all U.S. native-grown herbs are irradiated.



Is all of the above true, that both native and imported are irradiated or

fumigated?  Is there any way to get around this?



Ray Bayley

silwit@suba.com









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: irradiated & fumigated herbs

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:18:03 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:46:02 -0600 (CST), Ray Bayley <silwit@SUBA.COM> wrote to

Medicinal and Aromatic Plants list <herb@MyList.net>:



>Somewhere I had read that all U.S. native-grown herbs are irradiated.



Perhaps for export. You need phytosanitary and other certificates for most

western countries for most plant-derived materials. This just to avoid

introducing new pests into fragile ecologies. Like colorado beetles and things.

You can get clean dried herbs without irratiation, just by being fussy clean

when you dry them. Look, ma, no bugs in -my- jars! (I think.)



>Is all of the above true, that both native and imported are irradiated or

>fumigated?  Is there any way to get around this?



I really doubt that. If it were true you'd never have any creepy-crawlies in

dried herb. That turns out not to be the case... lots of large barrels that's

been sitting in the warehouses for long enough will have dead protein in the

bottom. These by the way are different crawlies from the ones found on live

plants. Those leave when they can't live on the plant anymore, which is some

time before the plant is truly dry.

So, ask any of the herb wholesalers... because of the gross-out factor they

might deny it. So, ask to see the bottom of a storage bin or two... because of

competition they might not let you... shrug. So, believe me, or don't.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Quitting smoking...or not :(

From: KaiforChi@aol.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:40:16 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from KaiforChi@aol.com:



In a message dated 98-11-11 03:51:01 EST,  Karen Vaughan wrote:



<< Check Howie Brounstein's site on smoking herbs (link on Henriette's

 page).  It might help if he smokes some of these to wean down.  A few of

 the "patches" contain lobeline from lobelia.  It might work to wear a

 compress of infused or tinctured lobelia, but I've never had anyone try

 it.  (If he does, report back!)



********Thanks; will check Brounstein's site. Tried lobelia "tincture" (I

believe)--it does taste a bit like nicotine or whatever that taste is in

cigs--but it tastes too nasty! and does not give that "inhale-exhale" thingy

that I seem to crave (no, deep breathing has not yet helped)

 

 (I recently came across a $50 bottle no-smoking aid that contained

 nothing but plantain.  Don't know if it works, but if it does try your

 lawn before the health food store.)



******LOL! You mean that plaintain tastes like a lawn? (Never had either,

btw.)

 

 Kava, oatstraw, scullcap or other antianxiety herbs can help.  Eating

 "Fire" foods like roasted red peppers, raddicchio, kale, escarole,

 dandelion greens, shrimp, strawberries, apricots, unsweetened chocolate

 (say in Mexican sauces), to displace the "Fire" category cigarettes can

 help diminish the cravings.



*******Ah ha! No wonder I crave *hot*, tart, bitter, etc. foods! Perhaps there

is a connection between craving cigs (and whatever is involved with them) and

*LOVING* hot things! (Capsaicin?) (Just today, I had Thai food--my restaurant

companion suggested that it would be over the top for me to ask for my food to

be spiced, on a scale of 1-10--1 being least spicy--at 10; I opted for 8. I

wanted to sweat and cry; all it did was give me a bit of a runny nose. Next

time: 10!  Maybe if I just have a pocket full of jalapenos I won't ever crave

a cig again? Well, I can wish :)



Still hoping for more info on this topic...



tia,

kai

kaiforChi@aol.com

 

 





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Quitting smoking...or not :(

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:23:31 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:40:16 EST, KaiforChi@aol.com wrote to herb@MyList.net:



> (I recently came across a $50 bottle no-smoking aid that contained

> nothing but plantain.  Don't know if it works, but if it does try your

> lawn before the health food store.)

>

>******LOL! You mean that plaintain tastes like a lawn? (Never had either,



Plantago spp. are quite often found in lawns. And sandy hills, and sandy

ditches, and hidden in tall grass. There's so much of them that they're kind of

invisible, you filter them out. Making the plant a hard plant to find, really ;)



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Cayenne tincture

From: "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>

Date: 12 Nov 1998 09:37 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>:



I have cayenne and other peppers ready to harvest and wonder if all 

could be tinctured at once.  I have serranos and hot banana peppers that 

I would like to add.  I understand that capsaicin is present in all 

of these peppers and that is what promotes blood circulation and warms the

body.  Any feedback is appreciated.



Tony  Juhasz













==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: echinacea

From: "CJH" <cjh@rea-alp.com>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:54:14 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "CJH" <cjh@rea-alp.com>:



Hi all:



Would someone please tell me why echinacea is not recommended for women

that are breastfeeding.   Thankyou



Candy

cjh@rea-alp.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: echinacea

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:21:18 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



CJH wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from "CJH" <cjh@rea-alp.com>:

> 

> Hi all:

> 

> Would someone please tell me why echinacea is not recommended for women

> that are breastfeeding.   Thankyou

> 

> Candy

> cjh@rea-alp.com

Hi candy I am looking at the Commission E and under pregnancy and 

lactation it says there are no adverse effects. I have personally 

never heard of a contraindication for echinacea and breastfeeding. 

Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: echinacea

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:45:09 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



A recommendation against echinacea during lactation is probably the

result of misbegotten constituent "science" looking at isolated

ingredients of an herb and making unwarranted extrapolations.



I'll guess that it comes because echinacea has pyrolidazine alkaloids

(miniscule quantities  of isotussiolagine & tussilagine) and certain

kinds of PAs can hurt a developing liver.  Echinacea's PAs are of a

saturated type and are not a concern.



Echinacea is generally regarded as safe for nursing and pregnant mothers.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:21:18 -0400 Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

writes:

>> To herb@MyList.net from "CJH" <cjh@rea-alp.com>:

>> Would someone please tell me why echinacea is not recommended for women

>> that are breastfeeding.   Thankyou

>Hi candy I am looking at the Commission E and under pregnancy and 

>lactation it says there are no adverse effects. I have personally 

>never heard of a contraindication for echinacea and breastfeeding. 



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: echinacea

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:29:56 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Echinacea is generally regarded as safe for nursing and pregnant mothers.



Echinacea IS, however, a rather drying herb, and lactation is not a condition

where drying is ordinarily sought.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:00:46 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



Paul or anyone, 



I have heard Chinese herbs have resolved hypothyroidism for some people. If

you have anything to contribute on this topic, I would greatly appreciate it. 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:12:09 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I have heard Chinese herbs have resolved hypothyroidism for some people. If

> you have anything to contribute on this topic, I would greatly

> appreciate it. 



Hypothyroidism is often such a fake diagnosis there is little to be said about

it. 



The causes are not found out by focusing on the gland. Describe the rest of

your health pattern, and maybe there is something to say.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:57:36 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/12/98 11:20:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



<< 

 Hypothyroidism is often such a fake diagnosis there is little to be said

about

 it. 

 

 The causes are not found out by focusing on the gland. Describe the rest of

 your health pattern, and maybe there is something to say.

 

 Paul

 

  >>

Well, my tsh level WAS way off on my first blood test, so the gland definately

isn't working, and I must take the hormone synthroid since my thyroid no

longer produces it, but I agree that the etiology is often unknown. I have

read that it can be anything from polution, poor diet, adreanl dysfunction,

genetic, to oh so many more. No one really knows the cause of hypothyroidism.

I don't know what you want to know about my health pattern, as I had and still

have almost every single symptom of hypothyroidism. Dry brittle hair, scaly

skin, total exhaustion even after a good nights rest, weight gain without over

eating, bloating (myxedema), hands and feet get terribly cold, I catch

everything that goes around and can't get rid of it once I have it, as I use

to be able to. The immune system, located in the thyroid gland, is broken and

out of order, for sure. hehe Don't know if any of this helped. Ask me

questions. 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:49:46 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>:





I am most interested in this thread.  The reason is that I had a TSH and T4

test done some time ago and there was TSH in my system which means that my

thyroid was not functioning properly.  However the levels were not off the

chart, just slightly abnormal.  Now he has had me repeat them 3 months

later and I have to go back to see him this Saturday.  If they are still

abnormal, I know he will prescribe a very low dose of Synthroid.  I would

love dearly to avoid this and have something else to try to normalize

myself and then have him test again later.  I do not feel really cold,

really tired, and my hair, well I was born with brittle thick hair.  I do

have some scaly, itchy skin.  Little weight gain which just makes me normal

weight.  Any ideas along this line would be appreciated for ammunition when

I see my doctor.  Fake diagnosis?  Do you mean there may be another problem

causing the hypothyroidism and he wants to treat a symptom?

Dina







At 12:57 AM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:

>

>In a message dated 11/12/98 11:20:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>p_iannone@lamg.com writes:

>

><< 

> Hypothyroidism is often such a fake diagnosis there is little to be said

>about

> it. 

> 

> The causes are not found out by focusing on the gland. Describe the rest of

> your health pattern, and maybe there is something to say.

> 

> Paul

> 

>  >>

>Well, my tsh level WAS way off on my first blood test, so the gland

definately

>isn't working, and I must take the hormone synthroid since my thyroid no

>longer produces it, but I agree that the etiology is often unknown. I have

>read that it can be anything from polution, poor diet, adreanl dysfunction,

>genetic, to oh so many more. No one really knows the cause of hypothyroidism.

>I don't know what you want to know about my health pattern, as I had and

still

>have almost every single symptom of hypothyroidism. Dry brittle hair, scaly

>skin, total exhaustion even after a good nights rest, weight gain without

over

>eating, bloating (myxedema), hands and feet get terribly cold, I catch

>everything that goes around and can't get rid of it once I have it, as I use

>to be able to. The immune system, located in the thyroid gland, is broken and

>out of order, for sure. hehe Don't know if any of this helped. Ask me

>questions. 

>

><3

>Sarina

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: paf@connix.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:23:46 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from paf@connix.com:



Regarding the "fake diagnosis" of hypothyroidism, what one really needs is

a correct diagnosis from a reputable, really knowledgeable  endocrinologist

or specialty group such as the Broda O. Barnes MD Research Foundation in

Trumbull, CT, phone (203) 261-2101.  They send out packets of information

and will recommend a Barnes-trained endocrinologist or thyroid specialist

in your geographic area.



Hypothyroidism is sometimes accompanied by hypo-adrenal problems as well

(Addison's disease), resulting in exhaustion, lack of stamina, low stress

tolerance, and fine, thin hair.



Mild hypothyroidism is often improved by the addition of bladderwrack

(kelp) to the diet because it is high in iodine (there's your herbal

support), but it is not enough for those with pretty low tsh levels.



Most commonly, Synthroid is prescribed for this condition, although very,

very many patients report better results with Armour natural thyroid

(derived from pigs' thyroids) because it contains both T3 and T4.  Very

often you must reallly insist, if you want to try Armour instead of

Synthroid.

 The Barnes Foundation has all the info you need, and they have a new

educational website for which you can search.  I'd prob. start with the

AltaVista search engine.



Lastly, there is an elist on this subject, the thyroid list, but I don't

have the subbing info right now.



Best, AnitaL.





--



paf@connix.com









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:29:27 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Regarding the "fake diagnosis" of hypothyroidism, what one really needs is

> a correct diagnosis from a reputable, really knowledgeable  endocrinologist



Who probably know nothing about nonconventional therapies, follow scientistic

theories of health that exclude non-drug curing methods, and probably continue

the hegemony of industrial medicine with great glee.



>Mild hypothyroidism is often improved by the addition of bladderwrack

>(kelp) to the diet because it is high in iodine (there's your herbal

>support), but it is not enough for those with pretty low tsh levels.



Continuing the undue focus on the thyroid, plenty of people try the seaweed and

find out that iodine is not the problem. So 'there's your herbal support'

doesn't satisfy the demands of traditional herbal therapy, since it doesn't

reflect that cognitive matrix.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:31:55 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



So 'there's your herbal support'

> doesn't satisfy the demands of traditional herbal therapy, since it doesn't reflect that cognitive matrix.

> 

> Paul



Hi paul, what is a cognitive matrix-Please don't use terms that you 

don't explain. Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:30:19 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I do not feel really cold,

> really tired, and my hair, well I was born with brittle thick hair.  I do

> have some scaly, itchy skin.  Little weight gain which just makes me normal

> weight.  Any ideas along this line would be appreciated for ammunition when

> I see my doctor.  Fake diagnosis?  Do you mean there may be another problem

> causing the hypothyroidism and he wants to treat a symptom?

> Dina



Pretty much the Heat pattern there, not the Cold one. 



As for ammo...shoot yourself in the foot so you miss your appointment, then go

see a Chinese herbalist. :-)



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:22:39 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:





>Well, my tsh level WAS way off on my first blood test, so the gland

definately

>isn't working, and I must take the hormone synthroid since my thyroid no

>longer produces it, but I agree that the etiology is often unknown. I have

>read that it can be anything from polution, poor diet, adreanl dysfunction,

>genetic, to oh so many more. No one really knows the cause of hypothyroidism.

>I don't know what you want to know about my health pattern, as I had and

still

>have almost every single symptom of hypothyroidism. Dry brittle hair, scaly

>skin, total exhaustion even after a good nights rest, weight gain without

over

>eating, bloating (myxedema), hands and feet get terribly cold, I catch

>everything that goes around and can't get rid of it once I have it, as I use

>to be able to. The immune system, located in the thyroid gland, is broken and

>out of order, for sure. hehe Don't know if any of this helped. Ask me

>questions. 

>

><3

>Sarina

>

Hi Sarina,

You have all the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

 

Check for food allergies, deficiencies of B vitamins, iron, digestive

enzymes, liver disease, hormone imbalances, and parasites.



You should avoid certain foods:

Avoid foods that naturally slow down the functioning of the thyroid such

as, cabbage, brussels sprouts, mustard greens, broccoli, turnips, kale,

spinach, peaches and pears.



Reason: 

These foods contain thiocyanates, isothiocyanates, nitriles and

cyanogenetic glycosides. These substances can block the thyriod from making

T3 and T4.



Also avoid sulfa drugs and antihistamines.



CONSUME foods such as fish, vegetables and root vegetables such as

potatoes. Increase foods high in vitamin B complex such as whole grains and

raw nuts and seeds. Also take foods rich in vitamin A.



I think you will need nutritional therapy.



You should also consider Homeopathy or acupuncture.



Aerobic exercise is important.



Herbs:

There is no herb that has been proven scientifically to stimulate the

thyroid to produce T3 and T4. This does not mean that there is no herb in

existance for the job. I strongly believe there is a herb somewhere for

every ailment. We just have to continue searching. A mixture of herbs can

be made to reduce and or aleviate the symptoms but I am not sure if that

will lead to a cure.



Louis

Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:07:09 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/13/98 10:44:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,

dikerr@smartt.com writes:



<<   If they are still

 abnormal, I know he will prescribe a very low dose of Synthroid.  I would

 love dearly to avoid this and have something else to try to normalize

 myself and then have him test again later.  I do not feel really cold,

 really tired, and my hair, well I was born with brittle thick hair.  I do

 have some scaly, itchy skin.  Little weight gain which just makes me normal

 weight.  Any ideas along this line would be appreciated for ammunition when

 I see my doctor. >>



Doctors rely too heavily on those charts, which are often inaccurate. In most

cases, a truly normal tsh level is between 1 and 2, closer to 1. Most doctors

will argue this because they have a paranoia of making someone who is

hypothyroid hyperthyroid. This, however, is nonsense and can be easily

resolved by monitoring the patient with blood tests. You can also monitor

yourself by taking your resting teperature. Mine is 98.1 and yet the doctors

say I am normal. So, learn what you can from them, but be open to other

aspects. If you want a link oh tsh levels or other info on hypothyroidism,

email me privately and I will send. I have some excellent links! This offer is

open to anyone else. 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:50:16 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/13/98 4:41:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



<< 

 >Mild hypothyroidism is often improved by the addition of bladderwrack

 >(kelp) to the diet because it is high in iodine (there's your herbal

 >support), but it is not enough for those with pretty low tsh levels. >>



Hypothyroidism is NOT an iodine defiency, it is an auto-immune disease, like

AIDS (though it is not aids and not as severe.)



Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:51:54 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:





>

>Hypothyroidism is NOT an iodine defiency, it is an auto-immune disease, like

>AIDS (though it is not aids and not as severe.)

>

>Sarina

>



Autoimmune diseases are those produced by failure of the immune system to

recognize and tolerate self-antigens. This failure results in the

production of autoantibodies that can cause inflammation and organ damage. 



The AIDS virus is not a self-antigen.



Thyroglobulin protein that is normally trapped within the thyroid

follicles, for example, can stimulate the production of autoantibodies that

cause the destruction of the thyroid. This occurs in Hashimoto's thyroiditis.



Graves' disease is another autoimmune disease, but this involves growth of

the thyroid associated with hypersecretion of thyroxine. Antibodies that

act like TSH stimulate the thyroid.



Hypothyriodism is not an autoimmune disease.



Louis



Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:20:13 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/13/98 8:45:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, georges-

louis@FRIEDLI.COM writes:



<< 

 Autoimmune diseases are those produced by failure of the immune system to

 recognize and tolerate self-antigens. This failure results in the

 production of autoantibodies that can cause inflammation and organ damage. 

  >>

The etiology is unknown. I wish it WAS known, beleive me. At best, it is

multi. Many causes. Take a look at the link I sent and see what you think. It

expalins alot. 



>>The AIDS virus is not a self-antigen.<<



I was not and am not saying AIDS and hypothyroidism is the same as AIDS, which

I mentioned as I stated that. I simply am trying to point out that it is too

often viewed as a mere iodine defiency when in reality it is much more serious

than that.



>>Hypothyriodism is not an autoimmune disease.<<



Hypothyroidism is most certainly an auto-immune disease, and if you want links

to prove it, I have plenty! Or, just call your local endo or even a GP. Or

look it up in a medical book. It is defined as an auto-immune disease.



Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:50:17 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



1. Dr. Zha, L.L. at Shanghai Med. University treated 32 cases of

hypothyroidism for 1 year with Shen Lu Tablets(SLT). Clinical symptoms were

markedly improved. Average serum concentration of T3 and T4 increased and

serum levels of TSH decreased.



2. Min,X et al. at the University of Western Australia, Department of

Medicine, in Perth are studying the effects of Chinese Herbs on

Hypothyroidism.

J. Ethnopharmcol(1998), Feb.60(1):43-51.



3. Zhang at Changhai Hospital, Second Military Medical College in Shanghai

is also interested in effect of Chinese Herbs on Hypothyroidism.



Hypothyroidism is a complicated disease. There are so many things in the

Biochemical Pathway that can go wrong from the hypothalamus to the

expression of proteins from rRNA and mRNA. 



An example of Hypothyroidism which is autoimmune is:



Thyroglobulin protein that is normally trapped within the thyroid

follicles, for example, can stimulate the production of autoantibodies that

cause the destruction of the thyroid. This occurs in Hashimoto's thyroiditis.



Most of the other causes of Hypothyroidism is not autoimmune. It can be

failure in transport mechanisms, lower enzyme activity, mutation in DNA and

therefore not expressing the correct sequence of proteins as carriers or

receptors etc. It goes on and on. If your type is autoimmune, then a test

for antibodies to antigens on the thyroid should be positive.



Louis

****************************************

Georges-Louis Friedli, MSc, Ph.D

14011 Jump Drive, Germantown,

MD 20874, USA

Tel:(301)-540-5264

Fax:(301)-540-5264

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/friedli

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis

 





         Ad astra per aspera

        .---.        .-----------

       /     \  __  /    ------     

      / /     \(..)/    -----               

     //////   ' \/ `   ---                 

    //// / // : gf : ---                   

   // /   /  /`    '--                    

  //          //..\\             

         ====UU====UU====          

             '//||\\`                       

               ''``                    

              \|||/

              (o -)

+----------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------+

**************************************





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:56:29 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Hypothyroidism is most certainly an auto-immune disease



The TERM 'auto-immune' REEKS of cancer. Doctors who themselves are full of

cancer come up with ways of describing illness that also identify their own

condition. Too weird.



Hypothyroidism is a SYNDROME. Auto-immune is a CONCEPT. The former is so

general that it is determined by a simple test (ignoring the entire context

that is the person). The latter is so sinister and flat that it is itself

hostile to human life.



That may seem radical to most of you. But give it a thought.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:57:16 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> In a message dated 11/13/98 4:41:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> p_iannone@lamg.com writes:

> 

> << 

>  >Mild hypothyroidism is often improved by the addition of bladderwrack

>  >(kelp) to the diet because it is high in iodine (there's your herbal

>  >support), but it is not enough for those with pretty low tsh levels. >>

> 

> Hypothyroidism is NOT an iodine defiency, it is an auto-immune disease, like

> AIDS (though it is not aids and not as severe.)



Wrongly attributed to me. 



Hypothyroidism is a syndrome (a collection of abnormal test results that are

considered similar)...it is not a disease. 



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:28:03 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/14/98 12:10:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



<< 

 > Hypothyroidism is most certainly an auto-immune disease

 

 The TERM 'auto-immune' REEKS of cancer.<<



Yes, and many patients who go with untreated hypothyroidism get Cancer! 



>>Doctors who themselves are full of

 cancer come up with ways of describing illness that also identify their own

 condition. Too weird.<<



I really don't get into the doctors own heath conditions. 

 

>> Hypothyroidism is a SYNDROME. Auto-immune is a CONCEPT. The former is so

general that it is determined by a simple test (ignoring the entire context

 that is the person). The latter is so sinister and flat that it is itself

 hostile to human life.<<



Explain your defination of syndrome and concept please. 

 

 >>That may seem radical to most of you. But give it a thought.<<



Oh, believe me, that is not too radical for me at all. I have been into herbs

and any kind of alternative healing since the 70s. But what IS too radical for

me is that every time I talk about it (not you, this has happened before)

alternative healers always want to look everywhere but at the thyroid gland

directly. While the allopathis will ONLY look at the gland which I think is

riduculous, altenrative healers go the other extreme, which I equally find

ridiculous. They are doing the same thing the allopaths are doing, in reverse.

Please don't misunderstand me. I DO agree that the whole underlying system has

alot to do with it and may have even caused it, but once it turns into

hypothyroidism the thyroid gland cannot be ignored. If I do not take my

hormone daily (synthroid) I will could have a heart attack. So the thyroid

hormone must be replaced, at least in the beginning. Then the other systems

can be looked at and treated as well. In time and only in some cases, a

patient can get off synthroid completely or at least lower their dose by

treating the rest of the system. 



Sarina

 





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:30:56 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/14/98 12:10:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



<< 

 >  >Mild hypothyroidism is often improved by the addition of bladderwrack

 >  >(kelp) to the diet because it is high in iodine (there's your herbal

 >  >support), but it is not enough for those with pretty low tsh levels. >>

 > 

 > Hypothyroidism is NOT an iodine defiency, it is an auto-immune disease,

like

 > AIDS (though it is not aids and not as severe.)

 

 <Wrongly attributed to me.>



What are you asking? Or stating?  

 

 Hypothyroidism is a syndrome (a collection of abnormal test results that are

 considered similar)...it is not a disease.  >>



Oh really? Not a disease? Care to be in my body? lol Check Dorlands. It is a

disease and I feel it's effects daily. If it is not a disese, tell me the

cure. 



Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:58:56 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Hypothyroidism is a syndrome (a collection of abnormal test results that are

>  considered similar)...it is not a disease.  >>

> 

> Oh really? Not a disease? Care to be in my body? lol Check Dorlands. It is a

> disease and I feel it's effects daily. If it is not a disese, tell me the

> cure. 



You're missing my point. Hypothyroidism is a sydrome. That is not a disease

entity, but a collection of similar sorts of illnesses that are termed 'the

same' even if in fact the similarity is deceptive. I am not discussing your

experience of disease. 



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:59:08 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> But what IS too radical for

> me is that every time I talk about it (not you, this has happened before)

> alternative healers always want to look everywhere but at the thyroid gland

> directly.



There are certainly cases of thyroid gland destruction that require synthetic

hormone. That is not the issue. The point is that the diagnosis is bunk many,

many times.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:08:06 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/14/98 1:04:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



<< 

 You're missing my point. Hypothyroidism is a sydrome. That is not a disease

 entity, but a collection of similar sorts of illnesses that are termed 'the

 same' even if in fact the similarity is deceptive. >>



If hypothyridism is not a disease, want to explain to me why, when a tsh test

is given (thyroid stimulating hormone) that it reveals the level of hormone

coming from the thyroid? It certainly does not seem like something fake going

on. Maybe in some cases, as it is common for adreanl dysfunction to be

misdiagnosed as hypothyroidism, tho even with that it is more common that one

has both difficulties and not just the one. Anyway, tsh directly reveals

information about gland's ability to secrete the needed hormone, which in turn

keeps all other organs working. Many do not realise that the thyroid acutally

keeps other organs operating at their peak, like the heart! Can't fool around

with the heart. And it keeps Cancer at bay, along with many other diseases. I

will agree that other parts of the body must be taken into consideration

regarding what helped cause the thyroid problem (to a degree) and what might

help heal it, as long as the thyroid gland is not be ignored. They all effect

each other, but when the hormone is not being produced by the thyroid, well,

it simply is not being produced by the THYROID. Believe me, I wish I was wrong

on this. It would be so much easier to treat some other part of the body to

heal the thyroid. :) 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:31:45 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>:



At 09:08 AM 11/14/98 EST, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:

>

>

>If hypothyridism is not a disease, want to explain to me why, when a tsh test

>is given (thyroid stimulating hormone) that it reveals the level of hormone

>coming from the thyroid? 



I hope I am understanding correctly...The way I understand it is that the

Pituitary Gland will produce TSH into the blood to stimulate the thyroid

gland if it is not producing enough T4 or T3.  The fact that there is TSH

in the blood is what they consider proof that the thyroid is not producing

enough T4 and T3.  I have had them repeat this test three times now.  Two

were abnormal, but I still have hope for the third, and I have delayed

going on Synthroid. 



I really appreciate the opinions on this subject on this list, as I

struggle to learn about this, and even though the opinions may not agree,

everyone is so generous in sharing their knowledge.



 I still don't know what i will do but, Paul, no way am I going to shoot

myself in the foot :), however I do appreciate the suggestion and welcome

back, it is so good to hear from you again.  



Mr. Friedli, thank you for the references, that first one is particularly

interesting.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:02:06 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> If hypothyridism is not a disease, want to explain to me why, when a

> tsh test is given (thyroid stimulating hormone) that it reveals the

> level of hormone coming from the thyroid? 



Because the thyroid secretes endogenous hormone which can be measured in the

blood serum? Not the point. It is not a disease---because it IS A

>>DESCRIPTION<< OF A PHYSIOLOGICAL DEFICIENCY, not a diagnosis of a >>disease

entity<< that causes a specific physical manifestation. So if one patient has

nightsweats and is irritable, and another is cold as a fish and about as

emotional, both are something you call 'hypothyroid' and hand out a single

therapy? 



Not in my universe. That's ignoring the person, and treating the person like

hamburger.



All you are saying is that a gland is not secreting normally---you certainly

aren't saying why, and once you have synthetic hormone available, APPARENTLY

YOU NEVER HAVE TO SAY WHY AGAIN!



How peachy for those doctors. Later on they can truck out their cancer-CAUSING

'auto-immune' concept, and sell that to people WHO HAVE HAD THEIR >>>>REAL<<<<

DISEASE LEFT UNTREATED FOR SO LONG THE VERY IGNORANCE OF THE SITUATION DEMANDS

THAT CANCER DEVELOP.



Not the way I treat my clients, and absolutely the last time I am explaining

this concept.  :-)



>It certainly does not seem

> like something fake going on. 



Then you aren't looking at what I'm looking at. Those doctors are scalping the

cheap seats for full price.



>Maybe in some cases, as it is common

> for adreanl dysfunction to be misdiagnosed as hypothyroidism, tho

> even with that it is more common that one has both difficulties and

> not just the one. 



Neither is a diagnosis in the real sense of the word. Neither has a CLUE about

the individual, and the individual is FAR AND AWAY the important issue. 



You want to go to doctors who instead of figuring out YOU, treat pieces of your

flesh, and that like gas tanks to be filled up, that's up to you. 



If the mechanical view didn't make you more ill, maybe you'd be ahead of the

game. Or let's say that accepting the mechanical view of your life IS very much

a part of your illness.



>I will agree that other parts of the body

> must be taken into consideration regarding what helped cause the

> thyroid problem (to a degree) and what might help heal it, as long

> as the thyroid gland is not be ignored. 



No one except you said anything about 'ignoring' the thyroid gland.



>They all effect each other,

> but when the hormone is not being produced by the thyroid, well, it

> simply is not being produced by the THYROID. 



Well, if such a simplistic model gives you the strength to go on, mazel tov.



>Believe me, I wish I

> was wrong on this. It would be so much easier to treat some other

> part of the body to heal the thyroid. :) 



Which can be done, and in many cases, to better effect.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 21:27:38 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/14/98 6:22:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dikerr@smartt.com writes:



<< 

 I hope I am understanding correctly...The way I understand it is that the

 Pituitary Gland will produce TSH into the blood to stimulate the thyroid

 gland if it is not producing enough T4 or T3.  The fact that there is TSH

 in the blood is what they consider proof that the thyroid is not producing

 enough T4 and T3.  I have had them repeat this test three times now.  Two

 were abnormal, but I still have hope for the third, and I have delayed

 going on Synthroid.  >>



Yes, this is correct. However the doctors know that when the tsh level is high

that it is the pitituiatry taking over and the thyroid gland in a sickened

condition. The doctors told me this theirself. 



I don't blame you for delaying the synthroid. If you can avoid it all the

better. Because even if it is needed, it also supresses the thyroid. The

allopaths claim the thyroid can't heal anyway, but I feel it can. There are

certain vit/min your can take which help the thyroid do its job, as well as

taking herbs for liver (which converts T4 into T3) and herbs for the lymph

system. 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:32:46 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Hi paul, what is a cognitive matrix-Please don't use terms that you 

> don't explain. Donna



Donna, there is no way for me to even point my elbow toward these topics

without leaving some people out in the terminological cold, so to speak. At

least I'm not using Chinese terms!



Cognitive matrix is the interlocking pattern of ideas about the world within

which people try to understand something.



IF your cognitive matrix is 'modern,' materialistic, mechanistic, scientistic,

reductive, anti-mystical, ethnocentric, disrespectful of the past, and already

presuming accomplishments that have not yet occured (a cure for all cancers!

travel to the stars! peace in our time!...all the rest of that manifest destiny

stuff), then IT alone will prevent you from dealing with healing from the plant

perspective, which is in fact opposite to all of that.



If that isn't made clear enough, then at least I tried to explain myself.

Obviously, you aren't going to get this point of view from the Berkeley

Wellness Letter, or one of those TV 'educators' for the corporate medical

scheme.



Best,



Paul



P.S. Sorry if I wax self-righteous from time to time...it is a personality

flaw, no doubt about it. 



As for the clinic someone mentioned earlier this week: there are many kinds of

healing and many kinds of healers, and certainly that clinic might be very fine

for people seeking that kind of healing. Personally, I'd rather die than submit

myself to such a worldview, but I live on the outskirts anyhow).





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:25:55 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 12:31 PM 11/14/98 -0800, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>:

>

>At 09:08 AM 11/14/98 EST, you wrote:

>>To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:

>>

>>If hypothyridism is not a disease, want to explain to me why, when a tsh test

>>is given (thyroid stimulating hormone) that it reveals the level of hormone

>>coming from the thyroid? 

>

>I hope I am understanding correctly...The way I understand it is that the

>Pituitary Gland will produce TSH into the blood to stimulate the thyroid

>gland 



YES



if it is not producing enough T4 or T3.  The fact that there is TSH

>in the blood is what they consider proof that the thyroid is not producing

>enough T4 and T3.  



NO



It is the concentration of TSH in plasma which determines that. There will

always be normal concentrations of TSH in plasma in a normal situation.



>I have had them repeat this test three times now.  Two

>were abnormal, but I still have hope for the third, and I have delayed

>going on Synthroid.



Please do not delay going on treatment. Go for treatment then try other

alternatives to heal your total being.





Drugs which have the exact chemical structure like the endogenous

counter-part (hormone, protein, etc) will not have too much side effects

like those with modified structures, except where the concentrations have

exceeded normal limits.





>I really appreciate the opinions on this subject on this list, as I

>struggle to learn about this, and even though the opinions may not agree,



It is normal when the philosophies differ. It happens in religion as well. 



I like medical science for the wealth of knowledge available and the

technology used in diagnosing but hate the treatments. I prefer alternative

treatments.



>everyone is so generous in sharing their knowledge.

 

Thats how it should be.  





>Mr. Friedli, thank you for the references, that first one is particularly

>interesting.



Thanks



BASIC INFORMATION



Hypothyroidism may be due to causes within the thyroid gland itself

(PRIMARY) or, less commonly, to failure of TSH production following

pituitary or hypothalamic disease (SECONDARY).



Hypothalamus --> secretes TRH which promotes the secretion of TSH from the

pituitary.



Hypothalamus(TRH) ---> Pituitary(TSH)

Pituitary(TSH) ---> Thyriod(T3 & T4)



When TSH from the pituitary stimulates the thyroid to produce T3 and T4,

but the thyriod is not performing its function to produce T3 and T4, the

pituitary say, AHA, let me produce more TSH. As I produce more TSH, the

thyriod may wake up from sleep to perform its duties, so more TSH is

produced. This is called NEGATIVE FEEDBACK mechanism.



All patients with primary hypothyroidism have an elevated plasma TSH level

but not all patients with an elevated TSH necessarily have a significant

degree of hypothyroidism.



While a normal or low TSH may be associated with SECONDARY hypothyroidism

due to pituitary or hypothalamic disease, a normal serum TSH level would

exclude PRIMARY hypothyroidism. No purpose is acieved by doing TRH tests

when an elevated plasma TSH has already been demonstrated but a TRH test

may be helpful in deciding whether hypothoidism is due to pituitary or

hypothalamic disease.



The thyroid gland is made up of follicular cells. These are epithelial

cells which surround a gel-like material called COLLOID. A glycoprotein

(protein + carbohydrate) called Thyroglobulin is synthesized by these

epithelial cells and secreted into the colloid. The rate of synthesis of

thyroglobulin is under the control of TSH.



Thyroid follicular cells accumulate iodide by an active-transport mechanism

that utilizes energy derived from a Na+, K+ -ATPase, which is located at

the cell membrane.

Certain monovalent anions, e.g. thiocynate and perchlorate (foods I have

mentioned previously [cabbage etc]) can compete for the carrier and thereby

inhibit iodide uptake.



Now we have THYROGLOBULIN and IODIDE in the follicular cell. 



What next?



Thyroglobulin is like the backbone on which T3 and T4 is manufactured. The

iodination of tyrosine is catalyzed by THYROID PEROXIDASE. The synthesis of

thyroxine in thyroglobulin involves:

1. iodination of tyrosine residues to mono-iodo-tyrosine,

2. further iodination of monoiodotyrosine to di-iodo-tyrosine, and

3. coupling of two residues of diiodotyrosine to form THYROXINE(T4) or

coupling of one residue each of monoiodo- and diiodotyrosine to form

tri-iodo-thyronine(T3).



SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE FAULT CAN BE FROM

1. thyroglobulin

2. iodide

3. enzyme(peroxidase)

4. the transport pump

5. colloid



T3 and T4 is secreted from the follicular cells into plasma. In plasma some

of the T3 and T4 are bound to a carrier called TBG (thyroxine-binding

globulin). They are released back to free T3 and T4 when specific tissues

need them.



When free T4 passes into the target cell cytoplasm, it is enzymatically

converted into T3.



T4 is, therefore, not the chemical form of the hormone that is active in

the target cells. T3 is what the cells require.



The attachment of T3 to the chromatin-bound receptor proteins activates

GENES and results in the production of new mRNA and new proteins.



It is these new proteins which then tell the body to do all the wonderful

things hypothyroidism patients lack.



All these things work in concert. One part becomes faulty and the whole

system breaks down like an orchestra with one instrument out of tune.



So you can see that 5 people classified as having hypothyroidism may have

different causes. If you have elevated TSH with low T3 and T4, you are

prescribed T3 or synthetic T3. Speed of treatment means more money in the

pocket of the doctor.



This is where I agree with Paul and others who think the underlying factors

leading to that cause be investigated. Why is the body not actively

transporting iodide? Why is the enzyme not able to incorporate iodide into

tyrosine? Why is the body not synthesizing thyroglobulin. Why is the

carrier-protein low or missing?



Plants and other alternatives like acupuncture, Homeopathy, Raja Yoga, etc

do things to the body that Science at present is incapable to

understanding. One plant may have thousands of compounds. Some of these we

can measure with our modern analytical techniques, but some we cannot

measure or even detect because the concentrations are below the treshold or

critical conc. of the equipments we use.



Louis



Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: oinonenehren@macalester.edu

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:10:12 -0500 (CDT)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oinonenehren@macalester.edu:



I love this conversation.  Judging from some of the posts this subject

holds a lot of pain and frustration for the people who are suffering with

it, but I appreciate their courage in sharing their perspectives and their

wisdom.  I also appreciate the willingness of the professionals to share

their expertise as well.  Its good for all of us that you are willing to

keep trying to communicate, even though at times you seem to be speaking

different languages.  



Thanks

Chris 

oinonenehren@macalester.edu







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:48:34 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



Well Paul, do not think I don't understand what you are saying. I get it

alright. You don't get what I am saying, but for me it is ok for people to

have different opinions.



In a Thyroid Disease newsletter I receive online, the lady in charge, Mary,

had an associate of Dr Weil host one of her chats. In her newsletter she wrote

how she was surprised and disappointed at the misinformation this lady gave,

and told Dr Weil about it. Long story short, Dr Weil, after having talks with

Mary, is begining to retract some of his opinions on kep/iodine. Mary insists

that hypothyroidism is an auto-immune disease not an iodine defiency. 



This can go on forever, and rather it didn't, but I have my sources too. :) By

the way,  I do not have any trouble with my cognitive matrix. :) 



>>P.S. Sorry if I wax self-righteous from time to time...it is a personality

flaw, no doubt about it. <<



LOL hehe Can't say I am going to argue with you on that. hehe (No offense

intended.) 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: MLCherbs@aol.com

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:36:41 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from MLCherbs@aol.com:



This is a very fascinating topic.....as i am hypo myself.....Now i have a

better understanding as to why i do not "fit" any of the physicians i have

gone to "protocol".  They often tell me i could not have the symptoms i do

because i am "hypo".....they NEVER listen to me - they only go by the test

results - and mine are always way off.  Sometimes i am very high - a 17 TSH -

and sometimes very low.....so they insist i do not take my medication

properly!  Why would i not take my medication and then seek

help........ANYWAY......could someone be more specific in what i could be

doing instead of taking Synthroid?  Who should i see?   Thank you all for the

information you always provide.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:24:38 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/15/98 12:28:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, georges-

louis@FRIEDLI.COM writes:



<< 

 NO

 

 It is the concentration of TSH in plasma which determines that. There will

 always be normal concentrations of TSH in plasma in a normal situation.

  >>



Of course. I was not saying T4/T3 are the same thing as TSH. 



Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:25:54 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/15/98 12:28:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, georges-

louis@FRIEDLI.COM writes:



<< 

 Please do not delay going on treatment. Go for treatment then try other

 alternatives to heal your total being. >>



I never said I wasn't on treatment. I have been on synthroid for over a year

and studying hypothyroidism for over a year. You become the master of your own

disese I have been told. :)



Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:10:58 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Well, my tsh level WAS way off on my first blood test, so the gland

> definately isn't working, and I must take the hormone synthroid

> since my thyroid no longer produces it, but I agree that the

> etiology is often unknown.



The etiology is not really unknown, it is just underdiagnosed by (supposedly)

scientific medicine. 



Doctors refuse deductive means (like Chinese healing) these days; they are

addicted to induction. And, sure, induction has done some marvels, but

deduction is perfectly legitimate, even though these addicts rant and rave

about its supposed defects.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: oinonenehren@macalester.edu

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:55:19 -0500 (CDT)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oinonenehren@macalester.edu:



Hi Paul

Can you spend a moment or two comparing and contrasting the inductive vs.

the deductive method that you mentioned in your post?  You're probably

getting tired of the endless requests for clarification, but this seems

really interesting, and I'm only half following you.

Thanks, 

Chris 

oinonenehren@macalester.edu







==========

To: "herblist" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs

From: "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:21:23 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>:



>....could someone be more specific in what i could be

>doing instead of taking Synthroid?  Who should i see?   Thank you all for

the

>information you always provide.



There are several natural thyroid supplements available by prescription that

contain both T3 & T4.  I have taken Armour Thyroid and Westhyroid; I believe

there is one more, but can't remember the name just now.  Most any

Naturopath or an MD who works with a Nutritionist will likely prescribe one

of these over Synthroid.   Also you can try Raw Thyroid from Natural Sources

(nci); it is available from L&H Vitamins at:

http://www.b-vital.com/LHvitamins/index.icl?rurl=&orderidentifier=



Also check out what foods to eat and which to avoid at:

http://thyroid.miningco.com/msub8.htm



Marie Winston

b.winston@worldnet.att.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Cayenne Tincture - Raynaud disease

From: "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>

Date: 12 Nov 1998 11:42 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>:



Do you suggest that a cold extraction of these peppers into - say olive oil- 

might have greater effect?  How would I administer this?  My main

objective is to alleviate the white fingers and slight numbing in cold weather

due to Raynaud disease.







In message "Cayenne Tincture", you write:



> To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:

> 

> You can mix the hot peppers for a tincture.

> 

> However I find that my cayenne infused oils are hotter and more effective

> than my cayenne tinctures.  And my tincture was at least 1:2.5 dry

> cayenne.

> 

> Karen Vaughan

> CreationsGarden@juno.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Cayenne Tincture - Raynaud disease

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:47:20 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Do you suggest that a cold extraction of these peppers into - say

> olive oil-  might have greater effect?  How would I administer this?

>  My main objective is to alleviate the white fingers and slight

> numbing in cold weather due to Raynaud disease.



The main concern there is to check first whether there are HOT symptoms in the

body core. Raynaud's is often Qi Stagnant due to Heat in the Liver. For that,

cayenne is not appropriate.



Paul





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Cayenne Tincture - Raynaud disease

From: "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:45:32 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>:



What is appropriate in such a case?



-----Original Message-----

From: p_iannone@lamg.com <p_iannone@lamg.com>



>The main concern there is to check first whether there are HOT symptoms in

the

>body core. Raynaud's is often Qi Stagnant due to Heat in the Liver. For

that,

>cayenne is not appropriate.









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Cayenne Tincture - Raynaud disease

From: "The McMillans" <mcmillians@nidlink.com>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:50:35 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "The McMillans" <mcmillians@nidlink.com>:



Although I am usually a lurker I had to come out to ask a question on this

subject.  My Hubby has been diagnosed with this disease and I was wondering

what I could do for him in the way of herbs.  The docter has him on Adalat

for his circulation but I would also like to see if there is something he

culd maybe rub on his skin or even take to help with it.  The medication

helps some but there are still days that it bothers him terribly, especially

with winter coming on.  He is a mechanic so he has to work with his hands a

lot with no gloves for the winter.

Thanks you can post me privately if you wish at mcmillians@nidlink.com I am

new to this list so am not quite sure how you guys handle this.

Shannon







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Cayenne Tincture - Raynaud disease

From: "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>

Date: 12 Nov 1998 15:43 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>:



I don't know what Qi is.  How do you define "Heat in the Liver"?  

These terms are new to me and I would very much like to understand.



Thanks



Tony





In message "Cayenne Tincture - Raynaud disease", you write:





> The main concern there is to check first whether there are HOT symptoms in the

> body core. Raynaud's is often Qi Stagnant due to Heat in the Liver. For that,

> cayenne is not appropriate.

> 

> Paul

>                                                                    













==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Cayenne Tincture - Raynaud disease

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:11:57 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> What is appropriate in such a case?

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: p_iannone@lamg.com <p_iannone@lamg.com>

> 

> >The main concern there is to check first whether there are HOT symptoms in

> the

> >body core. Raynaud's is often Qi Stagnant due to Heat in the Liver. For

> that,

> >cayenne is not appropriate.



Well, sorry if I veer into the terminology of my field. I cannot teach Chinese

healing by email (tried that too many times)...usually I am using that

terminology to provide the hint of another system's approach to illness, not to

create confusion.



In the current case, IF heat not cold is the true underlying condition, then

warming therapy is NOT appropriate, even though the complaint is 'cold.' 



Lots of these cases are actually hot, and only cold at the extremities. 



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Cayenne Tincture - Raynaud disease

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:40:19 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



I recommend a warm oil extraction, made in a jar placed in a crock pot

filled with water.  Olive oil is fine, but you can use grapeseed, sesame

or jojoba.  Make sure the water doesn't boil off and fry the oil.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On 12 Nov 1998 11:42 EST "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>:

>Do you suggest that a cold extraction of these peppers into - say olive oil- 

>might have greater effect?  How would I administer this?  My main

>objective is to alleviate the white fingers and slight numbing in cold weather

>due to Raynaud disease.

>

>In message "Cayenne Tincture", you write:

>> To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:

>> You can mix the hot peppers for a tincture.

>> However I find that my cayenne infused oils are hotter and more effective

>> than my cayenne tinctures.  And my tincture was at least 1:2.5 dry 

>> cayenne.

___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Black Walnut Hulls (was Green Pecan Hulls)

From: diana.rae@autodesk.com

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:02:40 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from diana.rae@autodesk.com:



> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:25:29 EST

> From: Kat11559@aol.com

> Subject: Re: Green Pecan Hulls

>

> So what do you do with the Hulls?  Of Black walnut or 

> pecan?

>

> Kathrine



I've never seen Green Pecan Hulls, but I use green walnut hulls from a tree

on my property in a tincture which seems to work great as an anti-parasitic.

When traveling in Mexico, and swimming in rivers locally, I take a teaspoon

of the tincture every 4-6 hours for a few days, and haven't had any problems

with "tourista" or giardia infestation from accidental ingestion of the

water.  



To make the tincture, I use a big 5-gallon jar with a tight-fitting lid,

fill it to the top with the whole walnuts (just after falling off the tree

when their hulls are a bright mossy green - easy where I live because big

crows flock in the tree and knock off tons of the nuts),   and then cover

with a couple bottles of 180-proof vodka.  I let this sit for about 14 days,

then strain through a coffee filter and bottle it back up.  I've passed some

of this to other friends who travel and not one has come back sick from

their holidays.



:D









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Arthritis question?

From: "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:28:35 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>:



I had a customer call today and ask me if I knew anything about a new

"arthritis" formula that was on 20-20 or Dateline or a show like that. 

Said they had people virtually crippled getting up and walking again. She

said that it was called:

"INHALTRA" or something close to that.  



Okay my question is, has anyone heard of this or know anything about it?



Marcia Wilson

Journeywoman Herbalist







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: massage oil

From: "SUSANVILLE SOAP COMPANY" <soap4u2@thegrid.net>

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:48:54 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "SUSANVILLE SOAP COMPANY" <soap4u2@thegrid.net>:



Does anyone have a favorite receipe for just a nice massage?



SUSANVILLE SOAP COMPANY

Dalene Hokanson

soap4u2@thegrid.net



http://www.angelfire.com/hi/zimdoggies   







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Heat and other TCM terms

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:37:49 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



For those who are unaware of basic Chinese medicine concepts such as

"Heat rising from the Liver" , "Qi stagnation"  organ systems and the

like, "The Complete Illustrated Guide To Chinese Medicine" by Tom

Williams (Element, DK or Barnes & Nobel publishers) gives a decent

overview and some basic definitions.



The basic concept is that a western "named disease" may arise from

different conditions in different patients.  Chinese medicine looks

directly at the conditions and treats those.  So two people with

hypothyroidism might have different treatments and different medicines

because of different underlying conditions.  In TCM terms they would not

be labled as having the same disease although they might be grouped

together and treated similarly by a Western physician..  



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Heat and other TCM terms

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:38:51 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> So two people with

> hypothyroidism might have different treatments and different medicines

> because of different underlying conditions.



Two people with health problems might be diagnosed as hypothyroid, but then

they both escape that mindset, and both are treated holistically to much better

results. Another person has their thyroid removed under extreme pressure from

the holistic people in the room, only to have cancer found beneath the thyroid,

thus possibly saving this person's life.



None of these hypotheticals represent successful original diagnoses.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Heat and other TCM terms

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:48:17 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 01:38 PM 11/13/98 -0800, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



Paul, I very much enjoy your posts, but don't you see that the use of

hypotheses in argument against misstatements is canoeing agaist the wind,

when what is wanted--even if not accepted--is bold, bald, backed up fact?

Personally, I never use mysticism, hyperbole, overstatement, exhaustive

examples, preconceptions, biased pronouncements, or feminine flattery, if I

can get in a KO of clear, documented fact. Almost never.



Pat



>Two people with health problems might be diagnosed as hypothyroid, but then

>they both escape that mindset, and both are treated holistically to much better

>results. Another person has their thyroid removed under extreme pressure from

>the holistic people in the room, only to have cancer found beneath the thyroid,

>thus possibly saving this person's life.

>

>None of these hypotheticals represent successful original diagnoses.

>

>Paul

>









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Saw Palmetto - new scientific validation!

From: diana.rae@autodesk.com

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:28:02 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from diana.rae@autodesk.com:



* A recent study concludes that an extract from the saw palmetto plant

  appears to be effective in easing the symptoms of benign prostatic

  hyperplasia (BPH).

    - note: BPH is a common age-related swelling of the prostate gland

      that is thought to affect up to 40% of men aged 70 or older; the

      condition is characterized by frequent urges to urinate and, if

      untreated, can lead to kidney damage and bladder infections.

    - researchers at the Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical Center

      in Minnesota reviewed findings from 18 controlled studies of

      2,939 men with BPH who were treated with saw palmetto extract

      (S.repens), other plant remedies, the drug finasteride, or

      placebo.

    - found that S.repens improved urinary tract symptoms by 28%,

      nighttime urination urge symptoms by 25%, peak urine flow

      by 24%, and bladder urine levels following urination, compared

      to placebo.

    - authors say the efficacy of S.repens was similar to that

      seen in patients treated with finasteride.

    - side-effects associated with use of the plant extract included:

      erection-related difficulty (1.1%) and gastrointestinal

      problems (1.3%).

    - the study is in The Journal of the American Medical

      Association (1998;280:1604-1609).









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Saw Palmetto - new scientific validation!

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:49:29 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:28:02 -0800, diana.rae@autodesk.com wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>* A recent study concludes that an extract from the saw palmetto plant

>  appears to be effective in easing the symptoms of benign prostatic

>  hyperplasia (BPH).



Great. Now that it's scientifically proven us herbalists can believe in it, too,

right?



Guys, saw palmetto (Serenoa), nettle root and Pygeum have been used for BPH for

ages, singly or in combination. 

Now Pygeum is practically extinct so please don't use that. 



If you use Serenoa and nettle root in combination you get half again as much

value out of the plants than if you'd use both singly.



And increase your zinc intake. Nuts and pumpkin seeds ...



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Dedicated medical research

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:57:22 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



Free subscriptions to Doctor's Guide E-mail Edition can be

Obtained by filling out the form located at:



<http://www.pslgroup.com/visitors/dgemail.htm>



Pat









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: low blood pressure

From: oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon)

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:59:41 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon):



I am wondering about low blood pressure.  I read (Michael Moore) that in

and of itself it is not a problem, unless lightheadedness and fatigue

occurr.  My b/p is 90 /60, on a regular basis, and I often (but certainly

not always!) sit down as soon as I stand for fear of fainting.  I had 

attributed my fatigue to an active 3 year old daughter...

Any thoughts here?

Thanks, 

Nell



___________________________________________________________________

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: low blood pressure

From: "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:54:33 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita F. Hales" <hales1@ktn.net>:



At 07:59 PM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote:

>

>To herb@MyList.net from oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon):

>

>I am wondering about low blood pressure.  I read (Michael Moore) that in

>and of itself it is not a problem, unless lightheadedness and fatigue

>occurr.  My b/p is 90 /60, on a regular basis, and I often (but certainly

>not always!) sit down as soon as I stand for fear of fainting.  I had 

>attributed my fatigue to an active 3 year old daughter...

>Any thoughts here?

>Thanks, 

>Nell

>

There's lots of causes for low blood pressure.  One that is seldom

considered is low blood sugar.  I won't get into the biology of it here but

low blood sugar or hypoglycaemia will almost certainly be accompanied with

low blood pressure.  High blood sugar will reflect a high blood pressure.

Hormones, adrenaline, insulin, etc are all related to this.   Look to the

spleen, pancreas, liver.





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: low blood pressure

From: "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:57:59 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>:



Nell,



You may also want to be checked for Mitral Valve Prolapse which can have a

side effect or symptom called disautonomia(SP)  or getting very dizzy and or

passing out.



Marianne





Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 1:00 AM

Subject: low blood pressure





>To herb@MyList.net from oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon):

>

>I am wondering about low blood pressure.  I read (Michael Moore) that in

>and of itself it is not a problem, unless lightheadedness and fatigue

>occurr.  My b/p is 90 /60, on a regular basis, and I often (but certainly

>not always!) sit down as soon as I stand for fear of fainting.  I had

>attributed my fatigue to an active 3 year old daughter...

>Any thoughts here?

>Thanks,

>Nell

>

>___________________________________________________________________

>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Saw palmetto

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:05:05 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



In response to Rashid Bacor <rbacor@intnet.mu>:



Saw palmetto is a shrubby palm, Serenoa repens, that grows along the Atlantic

coast in Georgia and Florida.  Berries are the part used: thin flesh over a

relatively big hard seed.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Herbs for over-heating? 

From: Liila <liila@gate.net>

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:04:58 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Liila <liila@gate.net>:



Hello to everyone on this list!



I have been enjoying this list and learning a lot. I thank you all for helping

to steer me in a new direction, healthwise and attitude-wise. I've found that

by opening up to and contemplating the wonders of herbalism, I've also

become a

lot more holistic in my approach toward all of life. 



I'm a 35 year old female. In the last year or so, I've started experiencing a

real problem with 'heat'. I suffer from chronic heartburn, but have managed to

control it by drinking 1 to 1 1/2 gallons of water a day, cutting caffeinated

beverages out of my diet, giving up my beloved Altoids, (peppermint gives me

horrid heartburn), watching out for acid foods in general. I still take

Tums or

a Pepcid if I need to.



I've also had a real problem with 'hot flashes' during this period. If I'm

in a

warm and/or humid environment, I begin to perspire profusely until I'm

literally drenched, followed by a brief feeling of 'the chills'. I life in

Florida, was in Home Depot today buying pots at the nursery, had another 'hot

flash' and almost felt as if I was going to pass out before I made it to the

air-conditioned car. I have always disliked overly warm surroundings, but this

past year has been extremely uncomfortable. I perspire so easily that it's

embarrassing.



I have hepatitis C, and am left wondering if along with the myriad of other

side-dishes that accompany the virus, this quality of 'overheating'  could be

another one. My intuition is telling me I need to incorporate more 'coldness'

in my life, and I'm wondering if anyone on this list has any ideas as to herb

teas or supplements I could be taking to better treat the whole. I currently

take milk thistle capsules and drink dandelion root/yellow dock tea--taking 3

cups daily with one week off every 2 weeks or so.



Sorry for the long windedness of this post, 



Liila  





==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: RE: Herbs for over-heating? 

From: "boulton, robin" <rboulton@sun.hennepin.lib.mn.us>

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:11:31 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "boulton, robin" <rboulton@sun.hennepin.lib.mn.us>:



One thing that immediately came to my mind is the possibility of a

hiatal hernia. I was diagnosed quite a few years ago and I have many of

the same symptoms - including the hot flashes, although I'm male! The

heartburn is definitely a symptom and I think it makes sense that

drinking a lot of water helps, cutting the acid that may be refluxing

into your esophagus. The peppermint makes sense too as it stimulates

smooth muscle so ( as I understand it ) making it easier for reflux to

occur. I sweat heavily at times for no apparent reason ( when I was

first diagnosed I had started to wake up at night literally drenched in

sweat, having to changes sheets and pajamas). 



Recently I quit smoking and almost totally quit alcohol. In the last few

months my symptoms have decreased remarkably. Also began exercising

daily, and changed to a strict vegetarian diet, partly to help lose

weight. (I have lost 25 pounds so far in about 7 months). All these

things seem to help. I can now sleep lying down again for most of the

night instead of propped up with 4-5 pillows to combat reflux.



See what others, esp. professional health care people, have to say. If

you can get hold of the Balch and Balch book that's been mentioned here

before, it has a good concise description of h. hernia and good

recommendations. If you need the name of the book email me off-list,  I

have it at home, just can't remember what it's called right now.



Hope this may be helpful, I'm waiting with interest to see what others

have to say in response to your message... good luck. If it is h.h., one

consolation is that just knowing what's causing the problem is a big

help, and can significantly reduce the stress and misery.



-----Original Message-----

From:	owner-herb@MyList.net [mailto:owner-herb@MyList.net] On Behalf

Of Liila

Sent:	Saturday, November 14, 1998 1:05 AM

To:	herb@MyList.net

Subject:	Herbs for over-heating? 



To herb@MyList.net from Liila <liila@gate.net>:



Hello to everyone on this list!



I have been enjoying this list and learning a lot. I thank you all for

helping

to steer me in a new direction, healthwise and attitude-wise. I've found

that

by opening up to and contemplating the wonders of herbalism, I've also

become a

lot more holistic in my approach toward all of life. 



I'm a 35 year old female. In the last year or so, I've started

experiencing a

real problem with 'heat'. I suffer from chronic heartburn, but have

managed to

control it by drinking 1 to 1 1/2 gallons of water a day, cutting

caffeinated

beverages out of my diet, giving up my beloved Altoids, (peppermint

gives me

horrid heartburn), watching out for acid foods in general. I still take

Tums or

a Pepcid if I need to.



I've also had a real problem with 'hot flashes' during this period. If

I'm

in a

warm and/or humid environment, I begin to perspire profusely until I'm

literally drenched, followed by a brief feeling of 'the chills'. I life

in

Florida, was in Home Depot today buying pots at the nursery, had another

'hot

flash' and almost felt as if I was going to pass out before I made it to

the

air-conditioned car. I have always disliked overly warm surroundings,

but this

past year has been extremely uncomfortable. I perspire so easily that

it's

embarrassing.



I have hepatitis C, and am left wondering if along with the myriad of

other

side-dishes that accompany the virus, this quality of 'overheating'

could be

another one. My intuition is telling me I need to incorporate more

'coldness'

in my life, and I'm wondering if anyone on this list has any ideas as to

herb

teas or supplements I could be taking to better treat the whole. I

currently

take milk thistle capsules and drink dandelion root/yellow dock

tea--taking 3

cups daily with one week off every 2 weeks or so.



Sorry for the long windedness of this post, 



Liila  





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbs for over-heating? 

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:10:42 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> One thing that immediately came to my mind is the possibility of a

> hiatal hernia. I was diagnosed quite a few years ago and I have many of

> the same symptoms - including the hot flashes, although I'm male!



The cart before the horse.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Surgery

From: LauraMH <lauramh@fsi.net>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:28:09 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from LauraMH <lauramh@fsi.net>:



Dear List,



My husband will be having jaw surgery on Wednesday, 4 days from now.  Is

there anything which can be done at this short notice to strengthen his

imune system and to promote healing?  And anything to be added post surgery?



Many thanks!

Laura MH



Laura McKeown Howell

lauramh@fsi.net

*****

(Einstein's) Definition of Insanity:

"Endlessly repeating the same process, hoping for a different result."

*****





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Surgery

From: Kat11559@aol.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:24:59 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:



Start him on Papaya Enzyme ASAP, the chewable kind it will keep the bruising

to a minimum.



Kathrine







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Echinacea and auto immune problems

From: coa-gen@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:38:53 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from coa-gen@worldnet.att.net:



A bottle of Echinacea capsules I have says it's not recommended for

auto-immune conditions--does anyone know why?

Jeri





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Echinacea and auto immune problems

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:55:35 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Some authorities recommend against echinacea for autoimmune conditions on the

thought that echinacea, by stimulating the immune system, might worsen the

autoimmune condition.  I have read in other places that is not usually true.

Perhaps in this litigious society, the manufacturer is erring on the side of

caution to protect itself against lawsuit.  I have respiratory allergies to some

foods and house dust, and echinacea, at least on a nonsteady basis, doesn't 

seem to hurt.  But then I believe the general recommendation is not to take 

echinacea on a long-term steady basis.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea and auto immune problems

From: natural <natural@wt.net>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:38:19 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from natural <natural@wt.net>:



I have a number of clients with SLE.  When I first began my practice, was cautions

with echinacea and did not recommend same to the SLE clients.  However many told me

they used echinacea in the past (up to14 days at a time) without causing a flare and

have seen evidence of successful use in quite a few given the below guidelines.



Unless I have solid evidence I will not suggest echinacea to any client with severe

organ involvement or failure and one who is in a flare.



Would be interested in anyone with clinical practice to share their experience.



Rosie

Back to Nature



> To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

> Some authorities recommend against echinacea for autoimmune conditions on the

> thought that echinacea, by stimulating the immune system, might worsen the

> autoimmune condition.  I have read in other places that is not usually true.

> Perhaps in this litigious society, the manufacturer is erring on the side of

> caution to protect itself against lawsuit.  I have respiratory allergies to some

> foods and house dust, and echinacea, at least on a nonsteady basis, doesn't

> seem to hurt.  But then I believe the general recommendation is not to take

> echinacea on a long-term steady basis.

>

> Thomas Mueller

> tmueller@bluegrass.net







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea and auto immune problems

From: Ray Bayley <silwit@SUBA.COM>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 02:53:52 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Ray Bayley <silwit@suba.com>:



	Echinacea (and others, e.g. aloe) can increase tumor necrosis

factor (= TNF, specifically the alpha one) (as referenced in Werbach and

Murray _Botanical Influences on Illness_), a cytokine that is

a)inflammatory,

b)suppressive of cellular immunity (e.g. the immunity that can

phagocyticize cancer cells, viruses, other microbes),

c)induces HIV replication (and maybe other viruses?),

d)causes peripheral fat and muscle to break down to be processed into sugar

and then reprocessed back into fat by the liver (= "useless recycling of

calories"; probably the source of sometimes confounding "heat" in the liver

found by TCMers in AIDS; eventually leading to fatty overload of liver and

then also blood [e.g. rise in triglycerides]; a main couse of "wasting"

seen in TNF-mediated inflammatory diseases, especially AIDS),

and e)is being found elevated in more and more autoimmune and inflammatory

conditions--AIDS, MS, SLE, even cardiovascular disease.

	While in normal amounts it is part of the balance of pro- and

anti-inflammatory controls and it does help necrose tumors (through

inhibition of angiogenesis), in elevated amounts it is quite dangerous (as

I hope you can see from the above list).  Unfortunately, by the time one

notes more outward signs and symptoms (e.g. increased viral load, decreased

cellular immunity, inflammation, wasting, excessive serum triglycerides,

exacerbations of autoimmune and inflammatory conditions), the TNF has been

elevated long enough to start overwhelming the body and its pathological

inertia is hard to reverse.

	For those of us who seemingly can't (or won't) financially afford

the lab work to check blood levels of TNF, we hope that the rather cheap

(once one has the equipment) "cells and fluid analysis" of bioimpedance

potentials (BIA, e.g. by RJL Systems) showing a shift of intracellular

water into the extracellular space heralds rising TNF.  And remember

please, when looking at lab work it is not enough to say "within the

reference range", it is a matter of whether the lab values over time are

slowly moving in the reference range towards being out of it--catch disease

while it is still dis-ease, please.

	We can also hope that

a)pulsing echinacea (which is rather traditional),

b)combining it with traditional companions (e.g. goldenseal),

c)combining it with anti-TNFs (e.g. rather large amounts of siberian

ginseng or bioactive omega-3, some allopathic drugs; and large amounts of

these have their own problems),

d)giving it to a metabolism that is already skewed away from its negatives

(e.g. cellular immunity is high, anti-inflammatory controls are strong,

healthy liver, exercise to tell muscle protein to stay where it is),

e)and monitorring its use with thorough analysis (e.g. pulse and tongue

"diagnosis", Hahnemannian or Vithoulkian paths of healing) will prevent a

course of echinacea tipping TNF into pathological realms in any given

individual.

	It is not enough in this case to say of echinacea or any thing that

might increae TNF "it didn't seem to cause any trouble" or "it is usually

OK"--TNF is a powerful cytokine that can turn against you.  Please be more

cautious than I usually see people being with echinacea, aloe, etc.  I have

too often seen clients in morbid momentum (heading towards death) with AIDS

because TNF is high...and then I find that they have been routinely for a

long time taking echinacea, or aloe, or...These can be wonderful herb

tools...at the right time in the right person for the right amount of time.



Ray Bayley

silwit@suba.com









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea and auto immune problems

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:56:18 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 02:53:52 -0600 (CST), Ray Bayley <silwit@SUBA.COM> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>	We can also hope that

>a)pulsing echinacea (which is rather traditional),



What do you mean with that? Homeopathy? This is a list for herbs, not

homeopathy. The twain are -quite- different.



>b)combining it with traditional companions (e.g. goldenseal),



Which is a mindbogglingly silly combo. Ech helps in the beginning of an

infection, goldenseal helps -only- with deep seated mucous membrane stuff. Even

then you should use substitutes, as the plant in the wild, is almost gone now.

Like, zilch left. Nada. Zero. None. Nil. Just big holes and dollar signs in the

eyes of prospective diggers, looking, looking, but not finding it.



On uses of goldenseal and Ech: 

get Paul Bergner's book "The healing power of Echinacea, Goldenseal and other

immune system herbs" and -read- it.



And may the pox take modern marketing hype. Goldenseal is becoming extinct

-FAST- and people still use it mindlessly, endlessly, not noticing that they

don't get better, they get worse. Dry cough, anyone?



Sheesh.



DON'T USE GOLDENSEAL WITH ECH, that's an incredibly inefficient use of -both-

herbs.



DON'T USE GOLDENSEAL unless you buy it from a grower you -trust-. 



DON'T USE GOLDENSEAL for your normal run-of-the-mill flu, at ALL.



End of rant.

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea and auto immune problems

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:03:55 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



(snip)

>End of rant.



Fire and brimstone, as Nick would say. Sorry about the intensity of that rant,

folks.



A better herb to put into a combo with Echinacea would be a driving (or "hot")

one, like ginger or cayenne. That way, when Ech helps you kill off your bugs,

the metabolites from said killing don't just sit there, they move to the liver

and on out.



Ech in itself is a "cold" herb, ie. it doesn't move things.



On Ech and autoimmune diseases: the jury is still out, as far as I can tell.

Some say the problems are mainly theoretical, others say they have seen problems

manifest in person. 

The solution to this dilemma is rather simple: if your clients agree to being

test subjects try it and see how it works for this particular person with that

particular autoimmune disease. Then report back here with your consolidated

results, after a year or three. If enough of us do this then we might just have

clear evidence one way or another, for a number of different syndromes, in a

couple years.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea and auto immune problems

From: Rosie <natural@wt.net>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:55:06 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rosie <natural@wt.net>:



Henrietta:  I've had quite a few clients with autoimmune diseases (SLE) use

echinacea; however I would not ask any with organ involvement/failure nor during a

Lupus flare to be a test subject.   To date no one with Lupus has had a flare using

echinacea as far as I know; however again they did not have organ involvement nor

flare during use.



If anyone else has any experience with using echinacea and auto immune diseases,

would love to have their experience posted.



Thanks,



Rosie



> On Ech and autoimmune diseases: the jury is still out, as far as I can tell.

> Some say the problems are mainly theoretical, others say they have seen problems

> manifest in person.

> The solution to this dilemma is rather simple: if your clients agree to being

> test subjects try it and see how it works for this particular person with that

> particular autoimmune disease. Then report back here with your consolidated

> results, after a year or three. If enough of us do this then we might just have

> clear evidence one way or another, for a number of different syndromes, in a

> couple years.

>

> Cheers

> Henriette

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea and auto immune problems

From: Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:05:33 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Glenbrook Farm <jenkins@glenbrookfarm.com>:



At 09:56 AM 11/17/98 GMT, you wrote:

 Goldenseal is becoming extinct

>-FAST- and people still use it mindlessly, endlessly, not noticing that they

>don't get better, they get worse. Dry cough, anyone?

>

  Henriette

    Goldenseal is also a victim of the drug scene in America.

These weinnes come into the health food store wanting Goldenseal to help

them pass a drug test and we tell them that this will not help you on your

drug test.

You will flunk your test and so they buy it anyway thinking they know

better..now I wonder how many bottles of goldenseal are sold in the USA for

fixing drug test.

Gheezzz



Lucinda Jenkins

Glenbrook Farms Herbs and Such

Fine Teas, Herbs, Spices. Fine Quality Soaps

http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: New Mexico Herbs

From: rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:52:23 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:



Hi all,

 

We just got back from visiting my mother in Carlsbad, New Mexico. While

we were there I picked up three herbs from the produce section in

Walmart. When we got home I tried to find out more about them in my herb

books, and on the internet, but have not found much. The three are

Yerbanis, Istafiate, and Manzanilla. The Manzanilla smells really good.

Does anyone know about any or all of them??



Thanks in advance!!



Cindi Zemaiduk

Vicksburg, Mississippi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:07:50 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> The three are

> Yerbanis, Istafiate, and Manzanilla. The Manzanilla smells really good.

> Does anyone know about any or all of them??



I believe manzanilla is chamomile.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:58:15 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:







p_iannone@lamg.com wrote: 

> 

> I believe manzanilla is chamomile.

> 

> Paul

 

Yes Paul, I think you are right. I was just somewhere else, and they had

manzanilla, and on the back of the package it said that that manzanilla

is the spanish name for german chamomile. 



Cindi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: Lisa Contreras <LMCONT00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 98 22:06:59 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Lisa Contreras <LMCONT00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>:



Hi Cindi,



    Don't know about the first two but Manzanilla is Chamomile.  We use this in

 a tea for sleeplessness or if someone just needs a soothing drink.  Now that

I look again at "Yerbanis", I wonder if this might refer to Anise. It looks

like it could be a combination of the words "Yerba (Herb) and "Anis (Anise).

 Does it smell like anise?  If so, we use this in a lot of our cooking - especi

ally in the cookies we call "biscochitos".



Hope this helps.  I will be interested to know if someone else comes up with a

translation for "Istafiate".



Lisa Contreras





On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:52:23 -0600 rlcz said:

>To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:

>

>Hi all,

>

>We just got back from visiting my mother in Carlsbad, New Mexico. While

>we were there I picked up three herbs from the produce section in

>Walmart. When we got home I tried to find out more about them in my herb

>books, and on the internet, but have not found much. The three are

>Yerbanis, Istafiate, and Manzanilla. The Manzanilla smells really good.

>Does anyone know about any or all of them??

>

>Thanks in advance!!

>

>Cindi Zemaiduk

>Vicksburg, Mississippi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 21:40:27 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:



I found this:

Istafiate:  Artemisia frigida.  tincture effectively retards stomach

hypersecretions.

Simple

tea strong diuretic.  Vinegar tincture applied on sides of face and

temples when

there is

headache accompanied by bloodshot or red eyes.



Manzanilla:  Matricaria matricarioides.  wild Chamomile or pineapple

weed.  Tea

and steeped

oil applied topically mild anti-inflammatory agent.  Internal tea mildly

relaxing,

antispasmodic for stomachaches, gas pain and teething.  As a sedative

mixes well

with

California Poppy, Passion Flower,Wild Oats, Prickly Poppy, or Skullcap. 

As an

intestinal or

uterine antispasmodic, mix with Desert Lavender, Chimaja or True Sage.



Lisa Contreras wrote:

> 

>  I will be interested to know if someone else comes up with a

> translation for "Istafiate".

> 

> Lisa Contreras

> 

> On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:52:23 -0600 rlcz said:

> >To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:

> >

> >Hi all,

> >

> >We just got back from visiting my mother in Carlsbad, New Mexico. While

> >we were there I picked up three herbs from the produce section in

> >Walmart. When we got home I tried to find out more about them in my herb

> >books, and on the internet, but have not found much. The three are

> >Yerbanis, Istafiate, and Manzanilla. The Manzanilla smells really good.

> >Does anyone know about any or all of them??

> >

> >Thanks in advance!!

> >

> >Cindi Zemaiduk

> >Vicksburg, Mississippi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 21:43:32 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:



ok, so now I have identified the manzanilla and the istafiate, but the

yerbanis still remains a mystery. It does not smell like anise. But it

does smell good!! But I have a natural weakness for all herbs....I think

they all smell good:):):)



Cindi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: natural <natural@wt.net>

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:12:22 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from natural <natural@wt.net>:



Hi Cindi:



In addition to the Istafiate and manzanilla which I identified for you on

aboutherbs and noticed you had shared with  this group,

Yerba Anis is Tagetes Florida.  Primary use stomachache and nausea medicine

similar to Anis.  Secondary uses as tea to add to bathwater of colocky or

vomiting children.



Rosie

Back to Nautre



> To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:

>

> ok, so now I have identified the manzanilla and the istafiate, but the

> yerbanis still remains a mystery. It does not smell like anise. But it

> does smell good!! But I have a natural weakness for all herbs....I think

> they all smell good:):):)

>

> Cindi







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:12:15 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



rlcz wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:

> 

> I found this:

> Istafiate:  Artemisia frigida.  



Hi where did you find this info? I can't find frigida anywhere. Thanks 

Donna





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 06:34:57 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:52:23 -0600, rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>Walmart. When we got home I tried to find out more about them in my herb

>books, and on the internet, but have not found much. The three are



>Yerbanis, 

perhaps Yerba anis, a Tagetes

or perhaps anise - either star anise or "normal" which looks like green caraway

seeds.



>Istafiate, 

The spelling Estafiate might give you more.

Could be Artemisia ludoviciana - grey leaves, a hint of a sweet taste to the

tops.

Or that other Artemisia, can't remember the species, looks just like feathery

grey stuff.



>and Manzanilla. 

Chamomile, yellow flowers with white rays, green feathery leaves.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:14:24 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:



Henriette Kress wrote:

> 

> >and Manzanilla.

> Chamomile, yellow flowers with white rays, green feathery leaves.



This is funny. Everyone is saying the same except my usual online

reference, the PFAF database. This database says that manzanilla is the

tree Crataegus pubescens (a relative of hawthorns). Now, that's not very

close to chamomile, not even from the same family. Further, the PFAF

database says that C. pubescens grows in southern North America and

Mexico and the fruit is used as a hypotensive and a cardiotonic

medicine.

   Any thoughts? Which is it?



-Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:58:36 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:14:24 +0200, Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>This is funny. Everyone is saying the same except my usual online

>reference, the PFAF database. This database says that manzanilla is the

>tree Crataegus pubescens (a relative of hawthorns). Now, that's not very

>close to chamomile, not even from the same family. Further, the PFAF

>database says that C. pubescens grows in southern North America and

>Mexico and the fruit is used as a hypotensive and a cardiotonic

>medicine.



You can use any Crataegus spp., fruit or flowering tops with leaves, as a

cardiotonic.



I don't like the PFAF database very much. Being a compilation of information

from a multitude of sources it's about as good as the person compiling that

data, for any given specialty within the database. It's fairly obvious that the

person responsible for the medicinal herbs part doesn't know too much about it.

I prefer the databases made by herbalists for herbalists every time. Shrug - you

pays your money and you takes your choices. The PFAF online database is free of

charge, whereas the good herbal CD-ROMs are about USD 50 per, and worth it.

(Some short descriptions of some good herbal CD-ROMs in the medicinal herbfaq,

part 7).



>   Any thoughts? Which is it?



Both, I guess. Common names being what they are you need latin names. Which is

why I gave descriptions with my plant id's ... Crataegus looks quite different

from chamomile.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:54:38 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



At 04:14 PM 11/15/98 +0200, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:

>

>Henriette Kress wrote:

>> 

>> >and Manzanilla.

>> Chamomile, yellow flowers with white rays, green feathery leaves.

>

>This is funny. Everyone is saying the same except my usual online

>reference, the PFAF database. This database says that manzanilla is the

>tree Crataegus pubescens (a relative of hawthorns). Now, that's not very

>close to chamomile, not even from the same family. Further, the PFAF

>database says that C. pubescens grows in southern North America and

>Mexico and the fruit is used as a hypotensive and a cardiotonic

>medicine.

>   Any thoughts? Which is it?

>

>-Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi

>

Utilizing the http://probe.nal.usda.gov:8300/cgi-bin/webace database and

searching for "Manzanilla" as a common name (which, considering the

circumstances under which these samples were obtained may be accurate) I

find reference to four distinct taxa.  These are: Chrysanthemum parthenium

     Hippomane mancinella     

      Matricaria chamomilla          Neurolaena lobata        



Next, assuming that the above assumption is INCORRECT and that the name

"Manzanilla" is indeed generic, a search for that genus turns up:  NOTHING.



SO... there you go.  With nothing more than "manzanilla" one is left

uncertain at best.



Repeating the process, this time with the http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/

database results in:  "common name not found in database" ... then,

generic, "name not found in database."



"The Flora of North America" database search http://www.fna.org/index1.html

likewise turns up NOTHING when a search for "manzanilla" is undertaken.



So... it would appear that "manzanilla" is a common name or variant ... and

that the only real way to know what one has is to identify the specimen and

ultimately rely upon its internationally recognized 'scientific' name.



Don't even find reference to Crataegus linked from 'manzilla.'



Good luck.



Scott and Aliceann 

carlton@mint.net







Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:00:18 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:







Miikkali Leppihalme wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:

> 

> Henriette Kress wrote:

> >

> > >and Manzanilla.

> > Chamomile, yellow flowers with white rays, green feathery leaves.

> 

> This is funny. Everyone is saying the same except my usual online

> reference, the PFAF database. This database says that manzanilla is the

> tree Crataegus pubescens (a relative of hawthorns). Now, that's not very

> close to chamomile, not even from the same family. Further, the PFAF

> database says that C. pubescens grows in southern North America and

> Mexico and the fruit is used as a hypotensive and a cardiotonic

> medicine.

>    Any thoughts? Which is it?

> 

> -Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi





OK, here is a better description of the manzanilla. It is very stemmy.

It is almost all stem, like a hard grass, and the flowers are very small

and not pretty yellow like chamomile. The smell is very sweet almost

vanilla smelling. The wire wrapping on it says Frontera Produce

Edinburg, Texas, Produce of Mexico. 



By the way, what is the url to the PFAF database that you are referring

to?



Thank you



Cindi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: Lisa Contreras <LMCONT00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 98 21:43:09 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Lisa Contreras <LMCONT00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>:



Hello!



I don't know the database you refer to, Miikkali, I only know that the

manzanilla that our family has used for years is chamomile.  There IS another

 manzanilla - "manzanilla hedionda" (stinking manzanilla) that is also known as

mayweed.  But the manzanilla sold as an herb in our grocery stores is definite-

ly good old chamomile.  I think I will try to access this PFAF database - can

 you tell me where to look for it?



Lisa Contreras



On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:14:24 +0200 Miikkali Leppihalme said:

>To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:

>

>

>This is funny. Everyone is saying the same except my usual online

>reference, the PFAF database. This database says that manzanilla is the

>tree Crataegus pubescens (a relative of hawthorns). Now, that's not very

>close to chamomile, not even from the same family. Further, the PFAF

>database says that C. pubescens grows in southern North America and

>Mexico and the fruit is used as a hypotensive and a cardiotonic

>medicine.

>   Any thoughts? Which is it?

>

>-Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:37:02 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Yerba Anis is Tagetes Florida.  Primary use stomachache and nausea medicine

> similar to Anis.



If I don't miss my guess, Tagetes puts it in the same genus of Aster family as

dandelion.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:12:35 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:37:02 -0800, p_iannone@lamg.com wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

>

>> Yerba Anis is Tagetes Florida.  Primary use stomachache and nausea medicine

>> similar to Anis.

>

>If I don't miss my guess, Tagetes puts it in the same genus of Aster family as

>dandelion.



No, it's Aster family alright, but Tagetes is Tagetes whereas dandelion is

Taraxacum.

There's a couple Tagetes sp. that can be used as spices, but the Tagetes sp.

I've seen in plant so far have only been pretty, not useful for people.



Dandelion, of course, is exceedingly useful in all its forms.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:03:04 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



As a point of interest in this query, I did a general search for Manzanilla

on Yahoo.  Of 440 web pages which came up (covering the usual far flung

gamut) I did come across the Tadin herb and Tea Company at

http://www.tadinc.com/t.htm where a tea called Manzanilla is pictured and

subtitled Chamomile.  Apart from this and an interesting sounding sherry of

the same name (as well as a lot of resorts and place names), there wasn't

much additional information. The picture on the tea box did indeed look

like Chamomile.  Does the product you found smell like Chamomile?



Good luck.



Aliceann Carlton

carlton@mint.net

 



At 01:52 PM 11/14/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:

>

>Hi all,

> 

>We just got back from visiting my mother in Carlsbad, New Mexico. While

>we were there I picked up three herbs from the produce section in

>Walmart. When we got home I tried to find out more about them in my herb

>books, and on the internet, but have not found much. The three are

>Yerbanis, Istafiate, and Manzanilla. The Manzanilla smells really good.

>Does anyone know about any or all of them??

>

>Thanks in advance!!

>

>Cindi Zemaiduk

>Vicksburg, Mississippi

>

>

Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:15:19 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



Wait, wait--a little more news from the web.  There is and article at the

following site

http://www.healthy.net/hwlibraryjournals/HerbalGram/1995/Summer/features/cur

es.htm, probably familiar to henriette, that cites Manzanilla as

arctostaphylos spp.  It is about plants used in the Tarahumara region of

Mexico.  Looks interesting.



Hope it is a lead for you.

Aliceann Carlton

carlton@mint.net











At 01:52 PM 11/14/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from rlcz <rlcz@netdoor.com>:

>

>Hi all,

> 

>We just got back from visiting my mother in Carlsbad, New Mexico. While

>we were there I picked up three herbs from the produce section in

>Walmart. When we got home I tried to find out more about them in my herb

>books, and on the internet, but have not found much. The three are

>Yerbanis, Istafiate, and Manzanilla. The Manzanilla smells really good.

>Does anyone know about any or all of them??

>

>Thanks in advance!!

>

>Cindi Zemaiduk

>Vicksburg, Mississippi

>

>

Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:20:43 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:15:19 -0500, Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton

<carlton@mint.net> wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>Wait, wait--a little more news from the web.  There is and article at the

>following site

>http://www.healthy.net/hwlibraryjournals/HerbalGram/1995/Summer/features/cur

>es.htm, probably familiar to henriette, that cites Manzanilla as

>arctostaphylos spp.  It is about plants used in the Tarahumara region of

>Mexico.  Looks interesting.



That one's definitely spelled wrong. Arctostaphylos sp. is manzanita, not

manzanilla.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:40:35 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> You can use any Crataegus spp., fruit or flowering tops with leaves, as a

> cardiotonic.



Interestingly, Chinese healing uses the fruit as a DIGESTIVE, specific to

removing accumulated MEAT from the digestive system.



Now ain't that a cardio-friendly task? :-)



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: New Mexico Herbs

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:27:37 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 02:58 PM 11/15/98 GMT, you wrote:



Henriette, your sunsite URL is an incredible piece of work! Incalculable

hours.It keeps your own references handy, I imagine, but O! how helpful for

the world, a concept of Samaritanship only recently visualized. Makes me

wish for reincarnation as a student in Michael Moore's class, and a trip

thru the flowering fields of the western US with you (among others more

exotic). I had 18 hours of botany, but bacteriology won out; I thought it a

better working field, and botany a free time pleasure... Now, I wish, I

wish...Too late to catch up to proficiency, but still time to learn.



And I wish to thank you, your work widens my personal vista. 



Pat





>To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):

>

>On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:14:24 +0200, Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

>wrote to herb@MyList.net:

>

>>This is funny. Everyone is saying the same except my usual online

>>reference, the PFAF database. This database says that manzanilla is the

>>tree Crataegus pubescens (a relative of hawthorns). Now, that's not very

>>close to chamomile, not even from the same family. Further, the PFAF

>>database says that C. pubescens grows in southern North America and

>>Mexico and the fruit is used as a hypotensive and a cardiotonic

>>medicine.

>

>You can use any Crataegus spp., fruit or flowering tops with leaves, as a

>cardiotonic.

>

>I don't like the PFAF database very much. Being a compilation of information

>from a multitude of sources it's about as good as the person compiling that

>data, for any given specialty within the database. It's fairly obvious that the

>person responsible for the medicinal herbs part doesn't know too much about it.

>I prefer the databases made by herbalists for herbalists every time. Shrug

- you

>pays your money and you takes your choices. The PFAF online database is free of

>charge, whereas the good herbal CD-ROMs are about USD 50 per, and worth it.

>(Some short descriptions of some good herbal CD-ROMs in the medicinal herbfaq,

>part 7).

>

>>   Any thoughts? Which is it?

>

>Both, I guess. Common names being what they are you need latin names. Which is

>why I gave descriptions with my plant id's ... Crataegus looks quite different

>from chamomile.

>

>Henriette

>

>--

>Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

>http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

>      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

>Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...

>









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Echinacea

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 21:48:23 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Paul,



If echinacea is a rather drying herb, how would that affect allergic rhinitis?

Could it really dry up a runny nose (I don't think so)?  What other herbs are

drying (American ephedra, southernwood, nettle, ground ivy?)?



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:37:08 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Paul,

> 

> If echinacea is a rather drying herb, how would that affect allergic

> rhinitis?



Is this particular 'allergic rhinitis' DUE to Dampness? Most allergic

conditions are associated with digestive dysfunction...echinacea has no value

in that regard as far as I know.



Paul





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Echinacea

From: "Vyrianna Lycorne" <lycorne@tiefling.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:03:44 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Vyrianna Lycorne" <lycorne@tiefling.net>:



>>To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



>>> Paul,



 If echinacea is a rather drying herb, how would that affect allergic

 rhinitis?<<<



Is this particular 'allergic rhinitis' DUE to Dampness? Most allergic

conditions are associated with digestive dysfunction...echinacea has no

value

in that regard as far as I know.



Paul<<



My allergies have nothing to do with my digestive system.   They effect my

respiratory system (mainly sinuses) when I my allergies act up.  My mother

is the same way.  Every fall her sinuses go ABSOLUTELY nuts.  She usually

ends up with sinus headaches.  In previous years she would down sudafed like

it was candy in the fall.  I have ended up with sinusitis due to my alleges

as has my mother.









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Echinacea

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:59:19 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Paul,



My allergic rhinitis, with a little asthma for good measure, is evidently not

due to dampness, but then I am in the very early stages of understanding

Chinese medical terminology.  High humidity is more comfortable to my nose and

throat than low humidity.  Not everybody likes walking outdoors in rain at 47 F,

but that is pleasant to my nose and throat, and I don't get the cold-induced

runny nose that would occur in lower humidity.



As for digestive dysfunction, it seems that I am affected by airborne household

irritant like dust, and in the case of some foods, what triggers the trouble,

quickly or hours later, is the food hitting the throat rather than what comes

later.  I guess I am fortunate compared to people who suffer allergic reactions

from food several feet away or in the same room or house, without ingesting

said food.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:53:02 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Paul,

> 

> My allergic rhinitis, with a little asthma for good measure, is

> evidently not due to dampness, but then I am in the very early

> stages of understanding Chinese medical terminology.  High humidity

> is more comfortable to my nose and throat than low humidity.  Not

> everybody likes walking outdoors in rain at 47 F, but that is

> pleasant to my nose and throat, and I don't get the cold-induced

> runny nose that would occur in lower humidity.



Then it is associated with dryness. Antihistamine use?



> As for digestive dysfunction, it seems that I am affected by

> airborne household irritant like dust, and in the case of some

> foods, what triggers the trouble, quickly or hours later, is the

> food hitting the throat rather than what comes later.  I guess I am

> fortunate compared to people who suffer allergic reactions from food

> several feet away or in the same room or house, without ingesting said food.



Dry tissue is hyperreactive. That is a different mechanism than the 'flypaper'

effect of dampness.



Paul







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Echinacea

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:52:35 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Paul,



My first major instance of noninfectious runny nose came at age 22 when I lived

in a New York City (Manhattan) apartment where the heat was hyperactive, and

tenants had no thermostatic control.  Then during the heating season, the air

would get hot and dry, often in the 80s F, once up to 95 F which is hotter than

it ever got in the summer with no air conditioning.  Air was very dusty, and I

couldn't walk barefoot without getting bottoms of feet dirty.  I had some days

of very runny nose but never two consecutive.  Summer with July indoor mean

temperature of 86 F but higher humidity was much easier to take.  Nose during

heating season commonly had parched feeling, for obvious reasons.



Now I have thermostatic control, far from New York City, but nose runs all year,

some days more moderate than others, notice that a dry feeling in the nose

sends the mucous membranes into overdrive.  I have been wondering what herbs

might be helpful, for drinking or applying directly to nose, or for use in

cooking.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:20:43 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 10:53 PM 11/15/98 -0800, you wrote:



My friend had nasal polyp surgery 4 times as a young woman. She has

recurrent bouts of sinus infections (surprise) and has a son-in-law

pharmacist who provides her with penicillin--I think about 5-7 times a year.

She tests positive for epstein-barr, and almost has narcolepsy, can sleep 10

hrs/night and take 2 hour naps. She has been diagnosed as a thyroid patient,

first hypo then hyper, with yo-yo dosages of thyroid meds, and just last

week put on synthroid--she had 3 hrs sleep the first night, but has now

leveled off to a more regular 8 hours.



I offered to share a new bottle of echinacea with her in case she has any

new bout of sinusitis, and dropped off the new bottle (caps) yesterday.

Today she called to say the bottle says not to be taken by patients with

autoimmune diseases, and she has that.I told her I don't believe she has any

condition that is auto-immune, but to ask her doctor--a perfect example of

the best use of a partnership between AMA and alternative medicine, wouldn't

you say?



Pat



I have been suggesting she use 

>To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

>

>> Paul,

>> 

>> My allergic rhinitis, with a little asthma for good measure, is

>> evidently not due to dampness, but then I am in the very early

>> stages of understanding Chinese medical terminology.  High humidity

>> is more comfortable to my nose and throat than low humidity.  Not

>> everybody likes walking outdoors in rain at 47 F, but that is

>> pleasant to my nose and throat, and I don't get the cold-induced

>> runny nose that would occur in lower humidity.

>

>Then it is associated with dryness. Antihistamine use?

>

>> As for digestive dysfunction, it seems that I am affected by

>> airborne household irritant like dust, and in the case of some

>> foods, what triggers the trouble, quickly or hours later, is the

>> food hitting the throat rather than what comes later.  I guess I am

>> fortunate compared to people who suffer allergic reactions from food

>> several feet away or in the same room or house, without ingesting said food.

>

>Dry tissue is hyperreactive. That is a different mechanism than the 'flypaper'

>effect of dampness.

>

>Paul

>

>









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:52:38 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Paul,

> 

> My first major instance of noninfectious runny nose came at age 22

> when I lived in a New York City (Manhattan) apartment where the heat

> was hyperactive, and tenants had no thermostatic control.



So your environment damaged your lungs with dryness. Ordinarily, a person will

recover, moisture will be restored, and life goes on WITHOUT chronic illness.

But after significant damage, the dryness actually becomes a feature of that

organ system's pattern, and provides the substrate for chronic illness to

exist. Doesn't much matter what chemistry changes then, cause that pattern is

running the show.



What is needed is something that scatters dryness (not just moisturizes it).

Contact me offlist if you like: there is a classical Chinese formula for that

pattern.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea

From: Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:24:53 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



At 11:20 AM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:



I now read from web sources that abnormal thyroid tsh is indeed an

autoimmune disease. Except, that is, on SOME web pages which mention MS,

Rheumatoid arthritis, etc, but not thyroid disease. Place your bets,

friends...there's a lot more such controversies out there. Most, in fact.



Pat









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Immune system

From: "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:17:34 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Wendy Vardy" <wvardy@bconnex.net>:



Hello list!

I am looking for some suggestions from you knowledgeable people.

I am expecting a visitor for the Christmas season who shall be leaving

Australia and temperatures of 30+C to venture up here to Canada and our

possible -20C.  This should be quite the shock!  I was considering

suggesting rather strenuously that he start taking some echinacea to boost

his immune system.

Is there something else I could recommend?

Comments?

TIA



Wendy

wvardy@bconnex.net







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Sinusitis, was Re(2): Echinacea

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:52:06 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> My allergies have nothing to do with my digestive system.   



Oh, really? I beg to differ.



>They effect my

> respiratory system (mainly sinuses) when I my allergies act up.  



In human health, the effect and the cause very often exist in different places.



>My mother

> is the same way.  Every fall her sinuses go ABSOLUTELY nuts.  She usually

> ends up with sinus headaches.  In previous years she would down sudafed like

> it was candy in the fall.  



And scorched the hell out of her lungs by doing so, causing herself

considerable grief, I'll wager.



>I have ended up with sinusitis due to my alleges

> as has my mother.



'Allergies' is just an idea having to do with the behavior of the illness. Yes,

you react to airborne irritants. You can either burn your lungs up drying them

with sudafed (pseudoephedrine), or you can correct that Coke-iced

tea-potatoes-sweets thing people do that accumulates the abnormal fluids in the

lungs in the first place. IT'S A DIGESTIVE DYSFUNCTION, 99 percent of the time.



The drugs she used don't just evaporate. They are powerful, and can exert a

serious imbalancing effect for decades after (aggressive) use.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Tagetes, was Re(2): New Mexico Herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:52:13 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> No, it's Aster family alright, but Tagetes is Tagetes whereas dandelion is

> Taraxacum.

> There's a couple Tagetes sp. that can be used as spices, but the Tagetes sp.

> I've seen in plant so far have only been pretty, not useful for people.

> 

> Dandelion, of course, is exceedingly useful in all its forms.



Ah, of course you're right. Let's see if I can compound my error (double or

nothing?), no cheating with the references: The main Tagetes of interest to

healing is CHICORY.



What do I win, Henriette, if I'm right?



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tagetes, was Re(2): New Mexico Herbs

From: Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:35:09 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:



p_iannone@lamg.com wrote:

> 

> no cheating with the references: The main Tagetes of interest to

> healing is CHICORY.



A little cheating with references on my behalf; we're still dealing with

the same family but Chicory is not in the Tagetes Genus. It is Cichorium

intybus. At least it seems very interesting in terms of healing. My

reference (the PFAF database at

http://www.scs.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/D_search.html) says this: "The root and

the leaves are appetizer, cholagogue, depurative, digestive, diuretic,

hypoglycaemic, laxative and tonic."



-Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tagetes, was Re(2): New Mexico Herbs

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:04:34 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:35:09 +0200, Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>A little cheating with references on my behalf; we're still dealing with

>the same family but Chicory is not in the Tagetes Genus. It is Cichorium

>intybus. 

(snip)

>"The root and

>the leaves are appetizer, cholagogue, depurative, digestive, diuretic,

>hypoglycaemic, laxative and tonic."



Without any cheating at all - I know my roots: chicory root is just about as

useful as dandelion root, one being an excellent substitute for the other. We

did this a couple weeks ago. You use a bit more of chicory, is all.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tagetes, was Re(2): New Mexico Herbs

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:59:45 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:52:13 -0800, p_iannone@lamg.com wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>Ah, of course you're right. Let's see if I can compound my error (double or

>nothing?), no cheating with the references: The main Tagetes of interest to

>healing is CHICORY.



I'd say the main Tagetes of interest is Mexican Mint Marigold.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: [Fwd: Re: New Mexico Herbs]

From: Cathy Teal <luxurylady@abts.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:06:33 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Cathy Teal <luxurylady@abts.net>:



Henriette, 



I have to TRULY agree with her on this one!  Your web site is REALLY a

work of art!  Congratulations and keep up the good work!  Thanks for

sharing it with us!



Cathy









Pat Stephens wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:

> 

> At 02:58 PM 11/15/98 GMT, you wrote:

> 

> Henriette, your sunsite URL is an incredible piece of work! Incalculable

> hours.It keeps your own references handy, I imagine, but O! how helpful for

> the world, a concept of Samaritanship only recently visualized.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Rooibos Tea

From: natural <natural@wt.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:18:10 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from natural <natural@wt.net>:



Health food store yesterday was giving samples of Rooibos tea; asked the

demonstrator what it is what are medicinal values.  All he could tell me

was it's an antioxidant.



Is anyone familiar with this herb and it's properties, uses?



Thanks



Rosie

natural@wt.net







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Rooibos Tea

From: joanr@mindlink.net

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:38:29 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from joanr@mindlink.net:



natural wrote:

 

> Health food store yesterday was giving samples of Rooibos tea; asked the

> demonstrator what it is what are medicinal values.  All he could tell me

> was it's an antioxidant.

 

> Is anyone familiar with this herb and it's properties, uses?



"Rooibos tea, made from the dried fermented leaves of Aspalathus linearis,

tastes similar to oriental tea but is less astringent due to the lower tannin

content.  It is caffeine-free but has a higher fluoride content than oriental

tea, which may help against tooth decay.  Japanese research in the 1980s

showed that rooibos contains a substance similar to the enzyme superoxide

dismutase, an antioxidant compound thought to retard aging.  Extract is used

in schnapps.  Mainly infused as a refreshing drink and as a base for soups,

sauces, fruit drinks, and in baking."



No personal experience on this one, just book learnin'. Rooibos has a few

synonyms - Aspalathus contaminatus and Psoralea linearis (why do they DO

that!)  This came from Deni Bown's Encyclopedia of Herbs and their Uses.........Joan





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism & Chinese Herbs, OOPS

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:33:06 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/16/98 7:38:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, MLCherbs@AOL.COM

writes:



<< 

 This is a very fascinating topic.....as i am hypo myself.....Now i have a

 better understanding as to why i do not "fit" any of the physicians i have

 gone to "protocol".  They often tell me i could not have the symptoms i do

 because i am "hypo".....they NEVER listen to me - they only go by the test

 results - and mine are always way off.  Sometimes i am very high - a 17 TSH -

 and sometimes very low.....so they insist i do not take my medication

 properly!  Why would i not take my medication and then seek

 help........ANYWAY......could someone be more specific in what i could be

 doing instead of taking Synthroid?  Who should i see?   Thank you all for the

 information you always provide.

 

  >>

AOL sent my last letter before I even typed a word on it! Sorry. I have no

idea why that happnened. 



Anyway, it is common for doctors to do this with patients over tsh levels.

Here is a link which is very informative about tsh levels.  Those scales are

so far off yet the doctors use them like their scripture. hehe So, read this

link and you will discover much to help you.



  <A HREF="http://thyroid.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa060198.htm">What's WRONG

With These Doctor's? - TSH Scale</A>

http://thyroid.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa060198.htm



It will give you some amo for those doc's, who rather blame the patient than

admit they do not know enough about hypothyroidism. 



Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Endometoriosis and other benefits of Red Clover

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:59:25 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:





Red Clover:  has an estrogenic effect, phytoestrogens or plant estrogens.

Phytoestrogens have three main classes: coumestans, isoflavones and lignans.

This herb is highest in coumestans.Isoflavones, such as genistein, run a close

second. It is one of the few plants which has all four isoflavones -- even soy

only contains two. Phytoestrogens help to create a balance of estrogen levels.

What is interesting is that it can be added to a formula for women whose

estrogen levels have climbed, as in PMS, or to a formula for women who need

more estrogen, as in menopause, and both will work! How? It seems to recognize

what is going on inside the body and does the needful. For example, the theory

is that when there is too much estrogen in the body, red clovers weaker

phytoestrogens compete with the body's more potent, innate estrogen for space

on estrogenic receptors fouond on cells. The result is less estrogenic

activity. When the estrogen is too low, phytoestrogenic plants offer

additional estrogenic effects.



Endometriosis and fibroids have been reputed to be greatly helped by the

addition of red clover to the daily diet. They are high estrogenic conditions

which this herb can offer a hormonal balance to. Make sure you have this

condition first. See a doctor. Then, if you wish, ask the doctor to allow you

to include natural therapy as part of the treatment plan. 



Red clover has also been reputed to possibly resolve cancer. This is due to

such high amounts of isoflavones, which greatly reduces cancer risk. Biochanin

A, which is genistein precursor found in red clover, is capable of inhibiting

cancer formation in test tubes. Breast cancer patients tend to excrete less

isoflavones in their urine, a possible indication that theyre not eating

enough cancer-fighting compunds.  In general, phytoestrogens are seen as a

potential protector against colon, prostrate and breast cancer. Remember to

eat other phytoestrogenic foods, like soy, carrots and parsley, legumes and

flaxseed. 



And you men out there, guess what? Males can get breast cancer too. It is on

the rise. 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: vitex and Endometriosis

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:01:55 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Phytolacca in drop doses can often aid endometriosis.  But this really

needs to be addressed with a professional herbalist since excess use can

be toxic.



While you are waiting to find an herbalist, keep a daily diary of

symptoms, menstrual cycle stages, food triggers, psychological upsets,

etc.  A 3 month diary can be of great use to your herbalist.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:47:11 +0800 "rpschmid" <rpschmid@public.cta.cq.cn>

writes:

>I was wondering how vitex then would effect women suffering

>with Endometriosis?  Or women with an estrogen dominance

>problem??  Any input on this?

>

>Also are there any herbs which would help boost the body and

>aid in the reabsorbtion of the blood left in the abdomen

>monthly due to endometriosis??

___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: "Roark" <roark@imt.net>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:31:51 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Roark" <roark@imt.net>:



Hi herby folks!



First, I have an "almost" herbal suggestion for sinusitis/runny nose folks.

There has been a lot of discussion about the dryness problem, and I have a

really simple solution:  I "snort" a cup of salt water (sometime with minor

herbs of choice added) at least three times a day.  Don't want to gross

people out, but nothing else works as well -- my problem is tiny sinuses and

mainly mechanical (they don't drain).  Anyhow, I use one of those turkey

baster or baby ear/nose bulbs and squirt the solution into one nostril while

closing the other with my finger, and then blow it back into the bathroom

sink.  (kneeling helps)  Temperature of the water is up to you -- I

personally use luke warm, cold is too achy for my sinuses.  Whereas my

sister-in-law uses cold because warm makes her sinuses too achy.



All right -- the Loaded Question:

There is some discussion about quality of herbal products.  Ok, I bite --

what to look for?



Thanks!

Carol







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: Roses9652@aol.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:05:08 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Roses9652@aol.com:



Carol:  What herbs do you use to mix into the saline solution when you do

this?  Would it be best to tilt the head back or lay down to get the saline

into the deepest sinus areas?  Is this painful?  I tried neosynephrine years

ago that way, and was miserable...it burned...  Rosemary





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: oinonenehren@macalester.edu

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:07:03 -0500 (CDT)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oinonenehren@macalester.edu:



I used to use a nasal irrigator blub, but it was very difficult to keep it

clean.  Now I use a neti pot, and it is a lot easier to keep clean, plus

it came with instructions on how much salt to use (1/4 teasp per cup) what

temperature (lukewarm) what to do if it burns (add some baking soda-a

pinch) and how to do it (lean forward over the sink, turn your head to the

side so that your ear is pointing towards the bottom of the sink) and pour

the water in one nostril.  It should come out the other nostril.  You

don't need to sniff it up into your head (like I had been doing for

months) just let it wash out, then reverse your head and repeat on the

other nostril.  It isn't nearly as uncomfortable as sniffing stuff up into

my sinuses, but if I'm not careful sometimes the water wants to run into

my throat and make me gag. 

Hope this is helpful

Chris

oinonenehren@macalester.edu

There are at least five spelling errors in this message.  Can you find

them all?  



On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 Roses9652@aol.com wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from Roses9652@aol.com:

> 

> Carol:  What herbs do you use to mix into the saline solution when you do

> this?  Would it be best to tilt the head back or lay down to get the saline

> into the deepest sinus areas?  Is this painful?  I tried neosynephrine years

> ago that way, and was miserable...it burned...  Rosemary

> 







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:29:35 PST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>:



>From owner-herb@MyList.net Tue Nov 17 17:16:21 1998



>

>To herb@MyList.net from Roses9652@aol.com:

>

>Carol:  What herbs do you use to mix into the saline solution when >you 

do this?  Would it be best to tilt the head back or lay down to >get the 

saline into the deepest sinus areas?  Is this painful?  I >tried 

neosynephrine years ago that way, and was miserable...it >burned...  

Rosemary



As a cancer survivor & a person whose sinus problems resulted in 

surgical removal of polyps this summer, I found the following is helpful 

with rebuilding my immune system strength:



The ENT MD said use sterile saline from the drug store. 



I do not *snort* my herbs.  I take them by mouth (I regard the herbs 

more like food).

 

In addition my oncologist asks me to keep my herbal treatments in low 

doses.  So I alternating doses of echinacea, st. John's Wort (the 

quercitin is a miracle allergy treatment, see A. Weil's books), 

atralagus, milk thistle, ginseng, licorice root (usually in Chai) 

antioxidant vitamin's & try to eat as few processed foods, while eating 

as many fresh fruits & veggies as  possible.  This year is the first 

year in 10-15 years that I am not suffering from cancer or severe 

sinus/allergies/stuffed up head (all winter!).



The saline keeps the infection down & the herbs help with maintaining 

immune system health & fighting infection.



Barbara



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:49:05 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Barbara,



>In addition my oncologist asks me to keep my herbal treatments in low 

>doses.  So I alternating doses of echinacea, st. John's Wort (the 

>quercitin is a miracle allergy treatment, see A. Weil's books), 

>atralagus, milk thistle, ginseng, licorice root (usually in Chai) 

>antioxidant vitamin's & try to eat as few processed foods, while eating 

>as many fresh fruits & veggies as  possible.  This year is the first 

>year in 10-15 years that I am not suffering from cancer or severe 

>sinus/allergies/stuffed up head (all winter!).



I have seen messages about St. John's wort being used for depression, but does

it work for allergies too?  Is St. John's wort a good source of quercitin?

I am/have been looking for anti-allergy herbs, to prevent the allergic reaction

before it becomes necessary to soothe the throat tickle or dilate the bronchi,

as the case may be.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:01:41 PST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>:



Hi Thomas,



>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

>Barbara,

>

>>In addition my oncologist asks me to keep my herbal treatments in 

>>low doses.  So I alternating doses of echinacea, st. John's Wort 

>>(the quercitin is a miracle allergy treatment, see A. Weil's books), 

>>atralagus, milk thistle, ginseng, licorice root (usually in Chai) 

>

>I have seen messages about St. John's wort being used for depression, 

>but does it work for allergies too?  Is St. John's wort a good source 

>of quercitin? I am/have been looking for anti-allergy herbs, to 

>prevent the allergic reaction before it becomes necessary to soothe 

>the throat tickle or dilate the bronchi, as the case may be.

>



The label on my St. John's Wort Tincture bottle lists quercitin as one 

of the active ingredients in the herb.  I have seen St. John's Wort 

recommended for anti-inflammatory purposes, antifungal, & other for 

treating various other auto-immune conditions.  The auto-immune 

recommendations indicates to me St. John's Wort may help with allergies.  

Though you are correct, I do not remember seeing the herb recommended 

specifically for help with allergies.  I do see some help in easing my 

allergy symptoms when I take St. John Wort.  But I have been doing so 

much to regain my health that it may be impossible to really know what 

specific substances are responsible for my health improvements.



I believe the best source for quercitin is yellow onions. 



Barbara  



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:24:13 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 11:14 PM

Subject: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question





>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

>Barbara,

>

>>In addition my oncologist asks me to keep my herbal treatments in low

>>doses.  So I alternating doses of echinacea, st. John's Wort (the

>>quercitin is a miracle allergy treatment, see A. Weil's books),

>>atralagus, milk thistle, ginseng, licorice root (usually in Chai)

>>antioxidant vitamin's & try to eat as few processed foods, while eating

>>as many fresh fruits & veggies as  possible.  This year is the first

>>year in 10-15 years that I am not suffering from cancer or severe

>>sinus/allergies/stuffed up head (all winter!).

>

>I have seen messages about St. John's wort being used for depression, but

does

>it work for allergies too?  Is St. John's wort a good source of quercitin?

>I am/have been looking for anti-allergy herbs, to prevent the allergic

reaction

>before it becomes necessary to soothe the throat tickle or dilate the

bronchi,

>as the case may be.

>

>Thomas Mueller

>tmueller@bluegrass.net

>

>

why on earth would you use St. Johnswort for allergies.  Allergies have a

cause.  St. Johnswort does not address the cause.  It may reduce some

symptoms but it certainly won't fix the problem.  How about looking at the

stomach and digestion???







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:21:49 PST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>:



>From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

>To: <herb@MyList.net>

>Subject: Re: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 



>why on earth would you use St. Johnswort for allergies.  Allergies 

>have a cause.  St. Johnswort does not address the cause.  It may 

>reduce some symptoms but it certainly won't fix the problem.  How 

>about looking at the stomach and digestion???

>



After writing the post saying "yeah I can not find any documentation 

supporting the use of St. John's Wort for allergies" I remembered I have 

seen recommendations to use St. John's Wort for allergies.  I just can 

not find the references.  The references were not my books.



My oncologist wanted me to take St. John's Wort for stress & depression.  



However when I started rebuiling myself after chemo I was very concerned 

about stomach upset.  For a long time after chemo (1 year & a half) I 

had lots of digestive trouble.  I have changed my diet to almost no 

prepared foods & I have watched my reactions to various food products.  

I always ate yogurt.  Then I started adding various herbs, at LOW doses.  

I noticed within a month of starting milk thistle a lot of my digertive 

problems were reduced significantly.  Then after I started eating mostly 

fresh fruits & veggies, yogurt, nuts, some cereals & herbal teas, and 

grains, & eggs & beans, most all of the bad digestive problems stoppped.  

Later I may take wheat & all milk products out of my diet to see if 

there is a significant change.



I started taking milk thistle to detox my liver from resisual chemo 

effects.  Since starting milk thistle I have seen it recommended for 

many other purposes (like reducing allergies through reducing the 

overall concentration of toxins, & helping reverse liver disease).  St. 

John's Wort was the same way.  I started taking it because my oncologist 

really wanted me to.  (I have refused things like xanax & mood drugs.)  

I stayed with St. John's Wort because I liked how I feel better when I 

take it.   



I am interested in hearing more about bringing my body back in balance 

in order to restore my immune system & stop the allergies.  In my family 

food allergies & airborn allergies are very bad.  I live in a part of 

the country where airborn allergies are known to be very bad (Austin 

TX).  This is great for the plants, but not always so good for the 

filters we call sinuses.



I think the original problem (in my case anyway) maybe as much emotional 

and stress related as dietary or hereditary, but that is not really a 

subject for this list.



Barbara 



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:58:07 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Barbara (and Anita),



I have never, or at least not yet, used St. John's wort.  I now live in

Jefferson County KY, eastern suburbs of Louisville, near the Ohio River,

thought to be a hotbed for allergies.  In Austin TX, is it the natural plant

life or the industrial pollution?  If plant life, why would Austin TX be worse

for allergies than other Gulf Coast and southern Atlantic states?



As for poor digestion, some allergies are triggered by imperfectly digested

food components, while others are airborne or triggered by the offending

substance hitting the throat.  Some people get allergic reactions to foods

several feet away, without eating said food, long before digestive system has

a chance.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:38:16 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 9:24 PM

Subject: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question





>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

>Barbara (and Anita),

>

>I have never, or at least not yet, used St. John's wort.  I now live in

>Jefferson County KY, eastern suburbs of Louisville, near the Ohio River,

>thought to be a hotbed for allergies.  In Austin TX, is it the natural

plant

>life or the industrial pollution?  If plant life, why would Austin TX be

worse

>for allergies than other Gulf Coast and southern Atlantic states?

>

>As for poor digestion, some allergies are triggered by imperfectly digested

>food components, while others are airborne or triggered by the offending

>substance hitting the throat.  Some people get allergic reactions to foods

>several feet away, without eating said food, long before digestive system

has

>a chance.

>

>Thomas Mueller

>tmueller@bluegrass.net

>

>

I personally don't think that St. Johnswort will be specifically helpful to

allergies.  It may relieve some symptoms but the problem is different.  It

may also help relieve some discomfort and emotional problems associated with

illness (If you're sick, you probably don't want to be and it causes stress

compounding the problem).  I maintain that allergies are imbalance in the

digestive system.  Allergies can and are cured all the time.  People

"outgrow" allergies often as their lifestyle and bodies change.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded question

From: "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:46:15 PST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>:



Hi Thomas,



> In Austin TX, is it the natural plant

>life or the industrial pollution?  If plant life, why would Austin TX 

>be worse for allergies than other Gulf Coast and southern Atlantic 

>states?



Probably industrial pollution and natural plant pollens both contribute 

to the bad allergy problems people often develope within 5 years of 

moving here.  I have heard over & over (from Doctors & allergy suffers) 

that this is one of the worst places in the country for people with 

allergies.  People that have never suffered form allergies can and do 

move here and develope severe allergies.



But you can grow all kinds of plants here.  At one of the Nature 

reserves here in Austin I recently heard one of the biologists talk 

about how this bio-region is one of the most diverse in the world, for 

plants.  For years I have grown all sorts of herbs & spices here  :)

(Sun exposure does need to be limitted for the more delicate plants.)



I do not know about how Austin compares the southern Atlantic states. 

One of the big allergy culprits is the cedar tree (which is really a 

juniper and nothing like the cedar trees that grow in western coastal 

states).  I beleive that same cedar grows in several of the Gulf Coast 

states so I'll bet they have some of the same allergy problems.  The 

allergy problems would depend on the individual person, and their 

allergies. <Sigh>



Barbara



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: List of herbs

From: John Gold <jenngold@concentric.net>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:11:43 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from John Gold <jenngold@concentric.net>:



I recently received a supplement which contained the following ingredients.

 I am a diabetic and am interested if any of these substances can help or

hurt my diabetes.

Perilla, Mori bark, Alicma root, Imporate root, Foxnut, Lotus seed,

Quinary, water lily bulb.  

Thanks for your help.

Kathy





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: List of herbs

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:05:32 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I recently received a supplement which contained the following ingredients.

>  I am a diabetic and am interested if any of these substances can help or

> hurt my diabetes.

> Perilla, Mori bark, Alicma root, Imporate root, Foxnut, Lotus seed,

> Quinary, water lily bulb.  

> Thanks for your help.

> Kathy



Ah, Sunrider. The worst formulations on the planet, and poorly labelled to

boot!



A formula like this MIGHT help you, but MIGHT not. It is not the practice of

competant Chinese healing to prescribe on the basis of a NAME of a disease.



We leave that OH-SO SCIENTIFIC practice to them doctorfolk.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Eczema

From: Carrie9557@aol.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:11:15 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Carrie9557@aol.com:



My niece was just diagnosed with a severe case of eczema.  The doctor has sent

her home with 2 different tubes of ointment to apply to her body....both of

which contain steroids.  Can anyone offer any suggestions on herbal

alternatives for this child?  She's only 6 yrs. old and the poor child itches

so bad that she's even scratching herslef in her sleep at night.  Any input at

all would be greatly appreciated.

Carrie

Carrie9557@aol.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: maggie@gpc.peachnet.edu

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:49:01 -0500 (EST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from maggie@gpc.peachnet.edu:



> 

> To herb@MyList.net from Carrie9557@aol.com:

> 

> My niece was just diagnosed with a severe case of eczema.  The doctor has sent

> her home with 2 different tubes of ointment to apply to her body....both of

> which contain steroids. 



  I too have aproblem with eczema... the doctor told me NOT to bathe

  everyday if it was possible.. and to use a glecerin soap

  i found that an aloe and glercin soap works pretty good...

  and that the longer I can go without bathing works pretty good too..

  if you have gas heat... I think a humidifier would work some wonders.

  But if the itching gets so bad that I scratch til I bleed (in my

  sleep) I do break out cream.... mine goes away every spring..

  comes back as soon as I start to use the gas heat. 



  maggie.

-- 

______________________________________________________________________________

 maggie@gpc.peachnet.edu     |     PLEASE SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS

Georgia Perimeter College    |              IN ADVANCE 

Educational Technologies     |     SO THAT I MAY HELP YOU MORE

______________________________________________________________________________





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:54:34 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>:



When I was young I once had scabies - a nasty parasitic infection of the

skin - which my family doctor misdiagnosed as eczema. For over six months he

gave me all sorts of useless creams, even injections, until finally he gave

up and sent me to a skin specialist who did a proper diagnosis in about five

seconds.



The moral of the story I guess, is that sometimes eczema can be

misdiagnosed.



And she seems very young for eczema.



Maybe your doctor knows what he's doing but I would be very cautious.



Good luck



Pramod





-----Original Message-----

From: Carrie9557@aol.com <Carrie9557@aol.com>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 1:16 PM

Subject: Eczema





>To herb@MyList.net from Carrie9557@aol.com:

>

>My niece was just diagnosed with a severe case of eczema.  The doctor has

sent

>her home with 2 different tubes of ointment to apply to her body....both of

>which contain steroids.  Can anyone offer any suggestions on herbal

>alternatives for this child?  She's only 6 yrs. old and the poor child

itches

>so bad that she's even scratching herslef in her sleep at night.  Any input

at

>all would be greatly appreciated.

>Carrie

>Carrie9557@aol.com

>







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:43:58 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



Is eczema what dries and cracks the skin, and is really dry by the finger

webbing?  Ive had problems with that since I've worked in the food business

and have to wash my hands with chemical soap.  I just cant seem to get rid

of it.  I lotion before and after washing and they are still dry. Started to

try different oils to see if it would help.

Juli

-----Original Message-----

From: Lee Hunter <lee.hunter@hum.com>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 12:54 PM

Subject: Re: Eczema





>To herb@MyList.net from "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>:

>

>When I was young I once had scabies - a nasty parasitic infection of the

>skin - which my family doctor misdiagnosed as eczema. For over six months

he

>gave me all sorts of useless creams, even injections, until finally he gave

>up and sent me to a skin specialist who did a proper diagnosis in about

five

>seconds.

>

>The moral of the story I guess, is that sometimes eczema can be

>misdiagnosed.

>

>And she seems very young for eczema.

>

>Maybe your doctor knows what he's doing but I would be very cautious.

>

>Good luck

>

>Pramod

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Carrie9557@aol.com <Carrie9557@aol.com>

>To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

>Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 1:16 PM

>Subject: Eczema

>

>

>>To herb@MyList.net from Carrie9557@aol.com:

>>

>>My niece was just diagnosed with a severe case of eczema.  The doctor has

>sent

>>her home with 2 different tubes of ointment to apply to her body....both

of

>>which contain steroids.  Can anyone offer any suggestions on herbal

>>alternatives for this child?  She's only 6 yrs. old and the poor child

>itches

>>so bad that she's even scratching herslef in her sleep at night.  Any

input

>at

>>all would be greatly appreciated.

>>Carrie

>>Carrie9557@aol.com

>>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:52:15 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:43:58 -0600, "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:



>Is eczema what dries and cracks the skin, and is really dry by the finger

>webbing?  Ive had problems with that since I've worked in the food business

>and have to wash my hands with chemical soap.  I just cant seem to get rid

>of it.  I lotion before and after washing and they are still dry. Started to

>try different oils to see if it would help.



If it as you say was triggered long ago by using a strong soap, it may now be a

fungus infection which took advantage of the fact that the soap stripped off

your skin defenses. That one would still be with you. Antifungal washes, which

won't remove -more- oils and friendly flora from your skin, would be in order.



It could also be just dry skin. If so you need to feed your skin from within -

take essential fatty acids, ie. oils with omega 3 and omega 6 chains. Take a

tablespoon a day, or a couple big capsules. Or switch to a margarine which

incorporates monounsaturated fatty acids.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:05:55 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> > My niece was just diagnosed with a severe case of eczema.  The doctor has

sent

> > her home with 2 different tubes of ointment to apply to her body....both of

> > which contain steroids. 

> 

>   But if the itching gets so bad that I scratch til I bleed (in my

>   sleep) I do break out cream.... 



NEVER, EVER repress skin afflictions with cortisone. You are doubling, tripling

your problems every time you do.



You are sacrificing far more than you can imagine, and the pain you can and

most likely will suffer because of this sort of slam dunk of your poor body is

awful.



Dermatologist and Rheumatologists are the most dangerous kinds of quacks on

this planet.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:05:58 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Avoid the steroids which will only drive the imbalance deeper into her. 

Better to open her pores, increase sweating, pay attention to elimination

 and to move the toxins (allergens) out.  Her body is hot trying to move

things ouy- work with the body reaction by amplifying it.  (And let her

know that her body is working as it should by getting stuff out through

her skin.) Yarrow teas, hot baths with plantain leaf in them, ginger,

dandelion and burdock.  



And identify the allergen so it is eliminated.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:11:15 EST Carrie9557@aol.com writes:

>My niece was just diagnosed with a severe case of eczema.  The doctor has sent

>her home with 2 different tubes of ointment to apply to her body....both of

>which contain steroids.  Can anyone offer any suggestions on herbal

>alternatives for this child?  She's only 6 yrs. old and the poor child itches

>so bad that she's even scratching herslef in her sleep at night.  Any input at

>all would be greatly appreciated.



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:06:09 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Can anyone offer any suggestions on herbal

> alternatives for this child?  She's only 6 yrs. old and the poor

> child itches so bad that she's even scratching herslef in her sleep

> at night.  Any input at all would be greatly appreciated.



Find a good traditional homeopath. Do yourself the biggest favor you have ever

done. And look around for others in the same family, cause that's a family

taint that should be driven out.



She's FAR better off scratching and suffering than being perhaps PERMANENTLY

damaged by the utterly stupid, utterly nonscientific, utterly NONHEALING use of

cortisone. You can cause emotional pain from this approach that is so deep, and

so unyielding that the person kills themselves decades later. Whereas, the

ongoing suffering of eczema can be tolerated, if just barely, and the person

will remain buoyant, and emotionally sane. 



THE SKIN PROBLEM IS HER OWN BODY EXTERNALIZING A GREAT INSULT TO HER HEALTH

THAT SHE INHERITED. DON'T TAKE AWAY HER OWN BODY'S EFFORTS TO FIGHT THAT

ILLNESS, UNLESS YOU WANT TO CAUSE PROFOUND SUFFERING. CORTISONE ONLY SHUTS OFF

THE ALARM, SO THAT THE HOUSE BURNS TO THE GROUND, INVISIBLY. IT IS A HORRID,

HORRID, BARBARIC THERAPY.



Damn the doctors and labs that make that stuff. I have seen SO much suffering

result.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:23:47 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> And she seems very young for eczema.



Not at all...it can be found in newborns. Eczema is a great scourge, and it

should never be repressed. The best naturopathic therapy is demulcent herbs and

lots of love. These children are suffering for their families.



NEVER USE CORTISONE for chronic health complaints. That is a therapy from the

medieval period of conventional therapy, nothing better than coal tar or the

mercury swallow or bleeding. The so-called doctors using this approach should

be lined up and shot, especially when it is realized (at least by some) that

this very same repression of (usually) sexually-transmitted disease is what

produces a familial taint in the first place. 



Let these complaints come out into the light! WHAT are you ashamed of?



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: Rosie <natural@wt.net>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:42:17 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rosie <natural@wt.net>:



Paul:



I'm seeing more young children, 2 years and younger, with eczema.  Would you be

more specific on your therapy for eczema.



Thanks,



Rosie



> To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

>

> > And she seems very young for eczema.

>

> Not at all...it can be found in newborns. Eczema is a great scourge, and it

> should never be repressed. The best naturopathic therapy is demulcent herbs and

> lots of love. These children are suffering for their families.

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:49:30 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:23:47 -0800, p_iannone@lamg.com wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>NEVER USE CORTISONE for chronic health complaints. 



I second that. Cortisone won't heal, it suppresses. Instead of suppressing pain

you should look at the cause. You're a professional ice hockey player and can't

play as long as you feel your knee hurt that much? Tough. If you use cortisone

you're overriding your body's alarms - at your own risk.



Cortisone (or was it cortisol - in any case, they do the same thing) is a

natural hormone, produced, I think, by the adrenocortex. It keeps the

regenerative factor (or whatever that was called again) at bay and suppresses

pain. 

Continuing use of cortisone and similar might just result in your not being able

to heal at ALL. Scary, eh? Like, you have an appendectomy, the doctor sews your

belly shut, you cough, and the threads come through your skin like it was

butter. Yep, too much cortisone for too long.



Nope, not for me.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:18:47 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Paul:

> 

> I'm seeing more young children, 2 years and younger, with eczema. 

> Would you be more specific on your therapy for eczema.

> 

> Thanks,

> 

> Rosie

> 

> > Eczema is a great scourge, and it

> > should never be repressed. The best naturopathic therapy is demulcent herbs

and

> > lots of love.



Demulcent herb therapy is essentially soothing and moisturing the skin and

tender tissues. Plants like oats (oatmeal baths), slippery elm,

calendula...these are all great demulcents. Of course, such therapies don't

heal the condition or relieve all the suffering, and it is understandable that

people want the magic bullet. 



But the point is that the suffering is inherited, and herbs don't relieve

inherited illness to my knowledge. They are adjuvants, helpers. They don't

remove your spiritual duties and limitations.



Proper homeopathic therapy can CURE eczema (and is in fact the REAL magic

bullet for these illnesses). Of course, that is off-topic, but a small amount

of discussion of scope of therapy is worthwhile, and I hope the list will

forgive me my excesses. Some of us healers are a bit extreme because of the

natural contrasts involved.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: Lory2x2@aol.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:26:43 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Lory2x2@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/17/98 11:15:43 AM Mountain Standard Time,

Carrie9557@aol.com writes:

<< My niece was just diagnosed with a severe case of eczema.  Any input at

 all would be greatly appreciated. >>



Hi Carrie - try making a salve with oilve oil, beeswax, oregon grape root, &

myrrh essential oil. That's what we use & it works well for us.   Lory



Lory2x2@aol.com

 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/lory2x2/">Lory's Herb Page</A> 

 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/reldon2x2/">Lory's Jewelry Page</A> 





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Eczema

From: "Mitzi Miceli" <mitzeli@prodigy.net>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:01:01 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Mitzi Miceli" <mitzeli@prodigy.net>:



I have found in such young children eczema to be

commonly caused by food allergies.  The biggest culprits to be wheat, dairy,

and corn.  Try an elimination diet to see if this is the case.  With the

food quality being so poor, and all of the additives and colorings being

added children are having more

and more problems.  Try the freshest most wholesome foods.  For a soothing

cream try the 3C's Calendula, Comfrey, and Coneflower.  All the best luck

with your niece.



Mitzi Miceli

mitzeli@prodigy.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:34:23 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 07:01 PM 11/18/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Mitzi Miceli" <mitzeli@prodigy.net>:

>

>I have found in such young children eczema to be

>commonly caused by food allergies.  The biggest culprits to be wheat, dairy,

>and corn.  Try an elimination diet to see if this is the case.  With the

>food quality being so poor, and all of the additives and colorings being

>added children are having more

>and more problems.  Try the freshest most wholesome foods.  For a soothing

>cream try the 3C's Calendula, Comfrey, and Coneflower.  All the best luck

>with your niece.

>

>Mitzi Miceli

>mitzeli@prodigy.net

>

>

I think this is an excellent response. Let me add a bit here to clarify

some points.

There are different types of eczema depending on their causes and where

they occur on the body. Eczema can be due to allergies, allergies secondary

to digestive disorders such as HCl(hydrochloric acid) deficiency, rashes

secondary to immune diseases, genetic metabolic disorders, or nutritional

deficiencies such as vitamin B especially vit B3 and B6.



Before giving treatment, I always try to get to the root of the problem. 



Mitzi's answer is a brilliant treatment when the cause is allergy.



Eczema can also be a symptom of an omega-3-fatty acid deficiency.



If there is a family history of asthma, hay fever, and food allergies, it

may be helpful to delay solid food introduction to infants as preventative

measures. A ten year study in New Zealand involving 1,265 children showed

that children who were introduced to four or more types of solid foods

before the age of four months were 2.9 times more likely to develop

recurrent eczema than children not exposed to early solid feeding.

Fergusson et al. Pediatrics 86 no.4(Oct., 1990):541-546



Eczema should be treated both internally and externally.



Externally: Evening Primrose oil applied directly to cracks and sore areas

of the skin may be very helpful in promoting healing.



Aromatherapy will also be beneficial.



Internally: There are quite a few herbs that can be used depending on the

cause.



Louis



Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:34:47 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 09:06 PM 11/18/98 -0900, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:

>

Let me take some time to analyze your why's.



Maybe lets start off with why do we get ill and why do we get old and die?



Examine your questions again and see if they make sense.



Louis

Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:14:42 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 09:06 PM 11/18/98 -0900, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:

>Why are there allergies???



One of the primary causes of allergies is an impaired immune system, which

substantially increases the risk of allergic reactions. This occurs when

the immune system becomes stressed due to an overload of toxins. 



Dr. Chaitow, in researching allergies, has found that a number of factors

negatively impact the immune system. These include increased toxic burden

due to pollution in all its forms; disturbances of infant immune systems

through repeated vaccination and immunization; and damage to healthy

intestinal flora due to overreliance upon antibiotics and steroids

(especially birth control pills).



The immune system may also be weakened by hereditary problems. Usually this

will be reflected in the gastrointestinal tract, so that nutrients are not

able to be absorbed and utilized properly.



Other causes of food allergies include nutritional deficiencies, a

repetitive and monotonous diet, chemical in the food chain due to

pesticides and preservatives, and chronic intestinal yeast overgrowth

(candidiasis).



Leaky gut syndrome, or excessive permeability in the digestive tract, is

another major factor that can lead to allergies. In these cases, the immune

system reacts to the particles of partially digested

foodstuff(macromolecules) that leak into the bloodstream through the gut as

if they were foreign materials.

Among the causes of leaky gut syndrome are poor digestion, alcohol

consumption, the use of NSAIDS, virsl and bacterial infections, parasitical

infestations, vitamin, mineral, amino acid and / or essential fatty acid

deficiencies, excessive stress, antibiotics, premature birth, candidiasis

and radiation.



Symptoms represent expressions of the whole organism (not just the psyche

or soma alone). The manifestation of disorders are the result of multiple

forces, some of which are extrapsychic(from the environment) and some of

which are intrapsychic (from within the personality).



These symptoms have cause and meaning.

1. Symptoms represent the patient's effort to maintain balance

(Homeostasis) e.g emotional balance.



2. In order to understand their meaning, one must know the patient's life

history, including his needs and the forces (psychological, social,

biological etc.) which have been of importance in his own development.



>>allergies secondary

>>to digestive disorders such as HCl(hydrochloric acid) deficiency,

>Why is there HCL deficiency?????



>Why are there immune diseases????



>Is there a true genetically inherited disease or just the propensity for

>it????



THERE ARE GENETICALLY INHERITED DISEASES!!!!!AND GENETIC DISORDERS.

Sickle cell anaemia

Down syndrome



There are lots of them. When a mutagen causes mutation in your germ cells

and you pass that on to your offspring ---that is inheritance of a mutated

gene by the offspring. If that mutation creates an imbalance to the system

then that will be manifestated as symptoms of various forms.



>Why would there be dificiencies????



We do not live in a perfect world where all our process foods are

nutritionally balanced.



Maybe you live in a world where there are no STRESSORS, POLLUTION, TOXINS,

MUTAGENS,etc.



Louis



Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Eczema

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:54:10 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I have found in such young children eczema to be

> commonly caused by food allergies.



Stimulating causes should be distinguished from underlying causes. Eczema is a

constitutional illness. It may be stimulated by various things, but its cause

is deeper than such.



Paul





==========

To: "'Herb Group'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Tincture oops....

From: Mickie Erickson <Mickie@decisionsys.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 98 12:54:00 CST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Mickie Erickson <Mickie@decisionsys.com>:





Well, I set up my valerian tincture about a month and a half ago, I shook   

it periodically and discovered when I went to strain it out last night   

that all the chopped up little rootlets had somehow formed themselves   

into a ball, and only the bottom of the ball was sitting in the alcohol!



So I poked the ball apart and am going to let it sit for a couple more   

weeks.



So if you are making a tincture out of something overly fibrous, you   

might want to eyeball it from time to time to make sure that some gnome   

isn't playing tinker toys with your tincture.



Mickie

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Mickie Erickson (mickie@decisionsys.com)

  "You are finite, Zathrus is finite, this is wrong tool"

                                              - Zathrus, Babylon 5









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Tincture oops....

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:37:32 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



You know, I just took the last of the roots out of the fridge to make my

last batch.  I noticed a couple have been sending out roots,  do you think I

could put them back in and plant them in spring?

juli

-----Original Message-----

From: Mickie Erickson <Mickie@decisionsys.com>

To: 'Herb Group' <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 1:00 PM

Subject: Tincture oops....





>To herb@MyList.net from Mickie Erickson <Mickie@decisionsys.com>:

>

>

>Well, I set up my valerian tincture about a month and a half ago, I shook

>it periodically and discovered when I went to strain it out last night

>that all the chopped up little rootlets had somehow formed themselves

>into a ball, and only the bottom of the ball was sitting in the alcohol!

>

>So I poked the ball apart and am going to let it sit for a couple more

>weeks.

>

>So if you are making a tincture out of something overly fibrous, you

>might want to eyeball it from time to time to make sure that some gnome

>isn't playing tinker toys with your tincture.

>

>Mickie

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

>Mickie Erickson (mickie@decisionsys.com)

>  "You are finite, Zathrus is finite, this is wrong tool"

>                                              - Zathrus, Babylon 5

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tincture oops....

From: Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:44:57 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:



Juli Kight wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

> 

> You know, I just took the last of the roots out of the fridge to make my

> last batch.  I noticed a couple have been sending out roots,  do you think I

> could put them back in and plant them in spring?



Wowee! That shows some vigor! I think if they're sending out roots,

they're just reaching out for some soil to live in - so why not give

them some? But put them back in the fridge, so that the roots know it's

winter and time to rest. If the roots are badly damaged, it's possible

that the plant won't be too healthy and of course it's possible that the

roots die during the winter - but hey, why not try?



-- 

Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tincture oops....

From: Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:05:23 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com>:



At 12:54 PM 11/17/98 CST, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Mickie Erickson <Mickie@decisionsys.com>:

>

>

>Well, I set up my valerian tincture about a month and a half ago, I shook   

>it periodically and discovered when I went to strain it out last night   

>that all the chopped up little rootlets had somehow formed themselves   

>into a ball, and only the bottom of the ball was sitting in the alcohol!

>

>So I poked the ball apart and am going to let it sit for a couple more   

>weeks.

>

>So if you are making a tincture out of something overly fibrous, you   

>might want to eyeball it from time to time to make sure that some gnome   

>isn't playing tinker toys with your tincture.

>

>Mickie





Hi Mickie,



You definitely want to have your botanical material submerged in your

alcohol/water menstruum.  The herb sitting above in oxygen could

deteriorate, attracting bacteria, etc., which you definitely don't want in

your tincture.  Alcohol will take care of some of the bacteria, but not

all.  Make sure that you make your tinctures in a jar small enough to fill

almost completely with your menstruum so there's no chance of the herb

material popping up above the liquid line.  Always, the less oxygen in a

preparation, the better, especially when infusing in a vegetable oil.



Make sense?



Be well,

Marcia Elston**Samara Botane/Herbal Indulgence**Seattle, WA

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

Agora pages I host:

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/taxonomy.htm

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/distillation.htm





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tincture oops....

From: Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:10:30 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com>:



At 12:54 PM 11/17/98 CST, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Mickie Erickson <Mickie@decisionsys.com>:

>

>

>Well, I set up my valerian tincture about a month and a half ago, I shook   

>it periodically and discovered when I went to strain it out last night   

>that all the chopped up little rootlets had somehow formed themselves   

>into a ball, and only the bottom of the ball was sitting in the alcohol!

>

>So I poked the ball apart and am going to let it sit for a couple more   

>weeks.

>

>So if you are making a tincture out of something overly fibrous, you   

>might want to eyeball it from time to time to make sure that some gnome   

>isn't playing tinker toys with your tincture.

>

>Mickie





One more thought on tincture-making.  You want to completely *macerate*

your herb material - not just chop.  Don't know if your mention above meant

that you just chopped with a knife, but you'll get a better strength

tincture if you really smash your herb, like in a quisinart, or with the

flat of the knife blade if you're doing this by hand.  This opens up all

the stems and fibrous parts so that the plants give up their constituents

more easily.



Be well,





Marcia Elston**Samara Botane/Herbal Indulgence**Seattle, WA

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/

Agora pages I host:

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/taxonomy.htm

http://www.wingedseed.com/samara/Agora/distillation.htm





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tincture oops....

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:57:02 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:10:30 -0800, Marcia Elston <samara@wingedseed.com> wrote

to herb@MyList.net:



>your herb material - not just chop.  Don't know if your mention above meant

>that you just chopped with a knife, but you'll get a better strength

>tincture if you really smash your herb, like in a quisinart, or with the

>flat of the knife blade if you're doing this by hand.  This opens up all



I don't agree. The alcohol is supposed to draw out constituents through the

plants cell walls. Dehydrating, as it were. This is obviously fresh plants only.

If you use a pulp to tincture from you don't -have- cell walls to dehydrate

through. A no-no in my book.



If you have problems with not getting all the constituents from the plant you

need to either cut into smaller pieces (but not use a vitamix or other on it) or

macerate longer. Macerating means steeping...



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tincture oops....

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:54:36 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Okay Henriette, I'll bite.  Why not give the alcohol an assist by

physically breaking down the cell walls?  Have you tried comparing the

extracts?



I know that when I use the Vitamix, my extracts seem to be stronger.  I

usually do it in midprocess after the herb has been able to absorb the

water from the mixture.  



But even with a Vitamix, most of the cell walls are intact.  There may be

more ruptured at the border, but an inspection of the marc shows plenty

of intact cells.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:57:02 GMT HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress)

writes:

>I don't agree. The alcohol is supposed to draw out constituents through the

>plants cell walls. Dehydrating, as it were. This is obviously fresh plants only.

>If you use a pulp to tincture from you don't -have- cell walls to dehydrate

>through. A no-no in my book.



___________________________________________________________________

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tincture oops....

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:17:51 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:54:36 -0500, creationsgarden@juno.com wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>Okay Henriette, I'll bite.  Why not give the alcohol an assist by

>physically breaking down the cell walls?



You get cellulose too. And other inert structural plant stuff. With osmotic

pressure being what it is this makes it less likely for other constituents to be

absorbed into the alcohol.



Also, if you get rid of cell walls there would be no need to let it sit for the

usual week or four, as all it takes to mix the twain is a good shake. 

Nobody does -that- ...



>I know that when I use the Vitamix, my extracts seem to be stronger.  I

>usually do it in midprocess after the herb has been able to absorb the

>water from the mixture.  



You're talking dry herb. I'm talking fresh. 



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Endometoriosis and other benefits of Red Clove

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:10:34 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> And you men out there, guess what? Males can get breast cancer too. It is on

> the rise. 



Some people will never get cancer; some are prone. That is regardless of

gender. 



Spreading such statistical threats is not what I consider proper speech for

healers. 'Males' CANNOT get breast cancer. Only individuals can.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Endometoriosis and other benefits of Red Clove

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:44:13 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/17/98 4:10:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



<< 

 Spreading such statistical threats is not what I consider proper speech for

 healers. 'Males' CANNOT get breast cancer. Only individuals can.

  >>



This was not a threat Paul. Why do you interpret it that way? Many just don't

know about it. I was just giving information. And by the way, males can get

breast cancer. I saw a man on a documentary who had it! That was one of his

purposes for going on TV. To inform the public that it is not just a woman's

disease. 



Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Intro

From: "joyfulspirit" <joyfulspirit@goplay.com>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:29:57 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "joyfulspirit" <joyfulspirit@goplay.com>:



Hello!  I am new to the list and thought I'd introduce myself.  My name is Ev.  I have just started a four year clinical phytotherapy program and want to learn as much as I can...which is what brings me here!  I am enjoying the discussions very much and will probably lurk for awhile to take it all in.  I do have one question...was just wondering if anyone was familiar with the "Dominion Herbal College" in Canada?  Look forward to getting to know everyone better.  Take care!



Regards,

Ev.

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4987....





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: loaded question

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:28:44 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:31:51 -0700, "Roark" <roark@imt.net> wrote to

<herb@MyList.net>:



>All right -- the Loaded Question:

>There is some discussion about quality of herbal products.  Ok, I bite --

>what to look for?



Pick your own, once, and dry it in the shade, or in a dehydrator. Do it by the

book. Then go out and buy the same plant. 



Compare what you picked and dried to what you bought. 

Equal? Bought stronger? It's okay to buy this company's stuff.

Yours green, vibrant, good scent, and what you bought looks, feels or smells

sort of like last year's hay? Lousy quality. Try somebody else's.



Tincture your own, once. Do it by the book. Then go out and buy tinctures of the

same plant, same part, and same strength according to the label (eg. 1:5 60 %).



Again, compare what you made to what you bought. 

Equal? Bought stronger? Good stuff.

What you bought is watery, no color, no taste? Lousy stuff. Try somebody else's.



Pills? Forget it. You can't assess quality of these without a lab. Anybody with

a dishonest bone can swindle you as much as they like - until some law steps in,

which unfortunately is rather unlikely, with herbs.



Capsules? I wouldn't. Capsules are powdered herbs, usually the dregs of the

barrels. Capsules have been sitting on the shelf / warehouse for who knows how

long. Powdered herbs deteriorate -much- faster than whole herbs. 

When you stuff your own, by hand, you put a -lot- more herb in it than machines

do. That minimizes oxidation, which minimizes deterioration. Also, you know how

old the herb was that you put in there. And how good it was. So, unless you

stuff your own don't bother.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: loaded question

From: joanr@mindlink.net

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:09:53 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from joanr@mindlink.net:



Henriette Kress wrote:

> Capsules? 

> That minimizes oxidation, which minimizes deterioration. Also, you know how

> old the herb was that you put in there. And how good it was. So, unless you

> stuff your own don't bother.



I know it is hard to generalize, but would using your own home made herb

capsules be an adequate way to take herbs such as nettles, scullcap, blue

vervain and others. I guess I am asking how well the herb is absorbed in

capsules in comparison to teas, infusions, or tinctures...........Joan





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: loaded question

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:17:56 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:09:53 -0700, joanr@mindlink.net wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>I know it is hard to generalize, but would using your own home made herb

>capsules be an adequate way to take herbs such as nettles, scullcap, blue

>vervain and others. I guess I am asking how well the herb is absorbed in

>capsules in comparison to teas, infusions, or tinctures...........Joan



There's some things where capsules are good:

- peppermint EO in oatmeal (or cornmeal or any other oily meal)(oily meals do go

rancid, so use fresh stuff) for bowel and stomach complaints

- saw palmetto - nothing should be allowed to taste like sweetened baby barf and

live

- dried valeriana - just to ensure client compliance. Remember however that

fresh valeriana tincture has less side effects than anything containing dried

valeriana



There's other things where capsules are the last thing you want:

- bitters - you need to taste them for them to work

- frog egg stuff (flax seeds, or psyllium seed, or chia seed), and 

- slippery elm powder - you need to let these swell in lots of water before you

take them. It's not good to swallow these dry. I leave the "why not" as an

exercise for the reader

- nettles, alfalfa, oatstraw, red clover and other mineral plants - the minerals

are better absorbed in teas



And there's lots of things where capsules are just one other way to take your

herbs.



Bottom line, know your herbs.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: loaded question

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:38:52 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: joanr@mindlink.net <joanr@mindlink.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 3:06 PM

Subject: Re: loaded question





>To herb@MyList.net from joanr@mindlink.net:

>

>Henriette Kress wrote:

>> Capsules?

>> That minimizes oxidation, which minimizes deterioration. Also, you know

how

>> old the herb was that you put in there. And how good it was. So, unless

you

>> stuff your own don't bother.

>

>I know it is hard to generalize, but would using your own home made herb

>capsules be an adequate way to take herbs such as nettles, scullcap, blue

>vervain and others. I guess I am asking how well the herb is absorbed in

>capsules in comparison to teas, infusions, or tinctures...........Joan



Digestion begins in the mouth.  If you don't taste it, digestion does not

begin.  Bitter herbs are particularly more beneficial if you taste them

first.  Capsules are convenient and a good way to consume something that you

don't like to taste.  However, there's something different when you make an

infusion, decoction or otherwise actually put the stuff in your mouth.  I

personally think your body likes it better.  It may depend on the herb and

your ability to digest those capsules.







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Internal cold

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:51:04 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



Im new to the Chinese cold/warm damp stuff.  I find it very interesting.  I

wonder, if weight loss, change in physical activity, diet etc could have an

effect.  It seems over the last two years, I have become very intolerant of

cold weather (which never used to phase me) and I literally feel frigid

inside.  I know some of the herbs I use are cooling, so I have been trying

to counter with heating teas such as ginger and cinnamon.  Hands and feet

are always cold, circulation is good.  Any tips or suggestions?

Juli



Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com



Taking botanicals to the extreme!







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Internal cold

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:34:42 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



Juli, in your recent posts to the list you describe several characteristics

of a "vata" imbalance (Ayurvedic medicine not Chinese medicine term).  A

vata imbalance is marked by feelings of cold (internally chilled at times)

hands and feet, dry skin that may crack, dry hair, some tendency to

constipation and  frequently gas and lower abdominal distension, dry lips

and mouth, and an increase in scattered thoughts--poor concentration,

anxiety/worry, sometimes numbness in fingers or toes, joint aches and

muscle aches from loss of lubricant in joints and muscles, etc.  You also

wondered about a relationship between weight loss and exercise (?increase).

 Vata is responsible for movement in the body in all tissues and spaces as

well as in thinking.  When it is aggravated due to too much decrease in

nutrients including oils, or due to too much travel/moving around/chaotic

schedule/multple deadlines that sap vital energy, symptoms like those you

describe may show up.  



Using the warming herbs may help, but you will also benefit from taking

them in warm milk or if you don't use milk, warm water so they don't add to

the dryness as much.  Eating all food cooked (steamed vegetables rather

than raw salads), grains well cooked and light like basmati rice intead of

brown with a little ghee (clarified butter) or oil on them and avoiding

cold drinks and hard to digest foods will be likely to increase your body

energy and sense of warmth. 



Be aware of the cooling and drying effects of your cooling herbs; they can

reduce your essential energy (prana which is breath and agni which is

digestive fire) as well as solve a lot of problems. Too much hot (like a

long hot shower or bath) will aggravate the symptoms by drawing the blood

supply from already depleted vital organs to the extremities.   Externally

applied oils may help a little, but not if there isn't enough "juice" to

run the main engines. A regular schedule even if you travel, will also

support a return to more warmth in general--rest is important too, and

somewhere keep handy some soft warm clothes or a favorite blanket.



If you live in Duluth (e-mail address?) you also face drying effects in

winter of intense cold outside and heat indoors.  In addition the long

months of darkness are upon us in the northern areas, adding to the stress

on body systems.



For whatever it's worth...



Peace,

Aliceann Carlton

carlton@mint.net







At 05:51 PM 11/17/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

>

>Im new to the Chinese cold/warm damp stuff.  I find it very interesting.  I

>wonder, if weight loss, change in physical activity, diet etc could have an

>effect.  It seems over the last two years, I have become very intolerant of

>cold weather (which never used to phase me) and I literally feel frigid

>inside.  I know some of the herbs I use are cooling, so I have been trying

>to counter with heating teas such as ginger and cinnamon.  Hands and feet

>are always cold, circulation is good.  Any tips or suggestions?

>Juli

>

>Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

>http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

>The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com

>

>Taking botanicals to the extreme!

>

>

Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Internal cold

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:52:11 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> prana which is breath



You are very knowledgeable. 



I simply append as 'bookkeeping' that prana is NOT breath per se, but rather

the vitality of the breath and nervous system.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Internal cold

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:03:13 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



You are correct in Prana as the capital "p" Paul, and it is the life force.

 It is also called "prana" with a small "p" as "breath"  Always, of course

in ayurveda is the underlying subtle force for all tissues and actions

which is the energy and template for manifest structureand functions.  Thanks.



Aliceann

carlton@mint.net



At 11:52 PM 11/17/98 -0800, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

>

>> prana which is breath

>

>You are very knowledgeable. 

>

>I simply append as 'bookkeeping' that prana is NOT breath per se, but rather

>the vitality of the breath and nervous system.

>

>Paul

>

>

Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Internal cold

From: "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:17:01 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:



Yup you nailed it on the head.  I have been taking long hot baths to warm

up.  Never thought it would do the opposite!  Yes I am in Duluth, its not

even really cold yet, but Im wearing a coat and a down vest all ready.  I am

trying to keep fat grams to 20 for body shaping, and have left raw veggies

alone for awhile. Do you think it would be worth switching from American

Ginseng to Asian?

Juli

-----Original Message-----

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 9:34 PM

Subject: Re: Internal cold





>To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:

>

>Juli, in your recent posts to the list you describe several characteristics

>of a "vata" imbalance (Ayurvedic medicine not Chinese medicine term).  A

>vata imbalance is marked by feelings of cold (internally chilled at times)

>hands and feet, dry skin that may crack, dry hair, some tendency to

>constipation and  frequently gas and lower abdominal distension, dry lips

>and mouth, and an increase in scattered thoughts--poor concentration,

>anxiety/worry, sometimes numbness in fingers or toes, joint aches and

>muscle aches from loss of lubricant in joints and muscles, etc.  You also

>wondered about a relationship between weight loss and exercise (?increase).

> Vata is responsible for movement in the body in all tissues and spaces as

>well as in thinking.  When it is aggravated due to too much decrease in

>nutrients including oils, or due to too much travel/moving around/chaotic

>schedule/multple deadlines that sap vital energy, symptoms like those you

>describe may show up.

>

>Using the warming herbs may help, but you will also benefit from taking

>them in warm milk or if you don't use milk, warm water so they don't add to

>the dryness as much.  Eating all food cooked (steamed vegetables rather

>than raw salads), grains well cooked and light like basmati rice intead of

>brown with a little ghee (clarified butter) or oil on them and avoiding

>cold drinks and hard to digest foods will be likely to increase your body

>energy and sense of warmth.

>

>Be aware of the cooling and drying effects of your cooling herbs; they can

>reduce your essential energy (prana which is breath and agni which is

>digestive fire) as well as solve a lot of problems. Too much hot (like a

>long hot shower or bath) will aggravate the symptoms by drawing the blood

>supply from already depleted vital organs to the extremities.   Externally

>applied oils may help a little, but not if there isn't enough "juice" to

>run the main engines. A regular schedule even if you travel, will also

>support a return to more warmth in general--rest is important too, and

>somewhere keep handy some soft warm clothes or a favorite blanket.

>

>If you live in Duluth (e-mail address?) you also face drying effects in

>winter of intense cold outside and heat indoors.  In addition the long

>months of darkness are upon us in the northern areas, adding to the stress

>on body systems.

>

>For whatever it's worth...

>

>Peace,

>Aliceann Carlton

>carlton@mint.net

>

>

>

>At 05:51 PM 11/17/98 -0600, you wrote:

>>To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

>>

>>Im new to the Chinese cold/warm damp stuff.  I find it very interesting.

I

>>wonder, if weight loss, change in physical activity, diet etc could have

an

>>effect.  It seems over the last two years, I have become very intolerant

of

>>cold weather (which never used to phase me) and I literally feel frigid

>>inside.  I know some of the herbs I use are cooling, so I have been trying

>>to counter with heating teas such as ginger and cinnamon.  Hands and feet

>>are always cold, circulation is good.  Any tips or suggestions?

>>Juli

>>

>>Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

>>http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

>>The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com

>>

>>Taking botanicals to the extreme!

>>

>>

>Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:

>

>Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

>underway ....

>

>Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

>including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

>made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Internal cold

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:15:36 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> You are correct in Prana as the capital "p" Paul, and it is the life force.

>  It is also called "prana" with a small "p" as "breath"  Always, of course

> in ayurveda is the underlying subtle force for all tissues and actions

> which is the energy and template for manifest structureand

> functions.  Thanks.

> 

> Aliceann



My apologies to the list, but Aliceann there is no such distinction. Sanskrit

does NOT have an upper and lower case like English. 



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Internal cold

From: Michael Acord <mpacord@concentric.net>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:19:53 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Michael Acord <mpacord@concentric.net>:



Juli Kight wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from "Juli Kight" <castle67@cp.duluth.mn.us>:

> 

> Im new to the Chinese cold/warm damp stuff.  I find it very interesting.  I

> wonder, if weight loss, change in physical activity, diet etc could have an

> effect.  It seems over the last two years, I have become very intolerant of

> cold weather (which never used to phase me) and I literally feel frigid

> inside.  I know some of the herbs I use are cooling, so I have been trying

> to counter with heating teas such as ginger and cinnamon.  Hands and feet

> are always cold, circulation is good.  Any tips or suggestions?

> Juli

> 

> Your Interent guide for Herbs For Health  -

> http://herbsforhealth.miningco.com

> The Extreme Botanicals Collective - http://www.extremebotanicals.com

> 

> Taking botanicals to the extreme!

Traditional Chinese Medicine is far more complex than it seems at first

glance (or after a BUNCH of glances, for that matter).  My

recommendation is to consult someone who knows a lot about it, such as a

practitioner of TCM.

	Mike Acord, MD





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Hypothyroidism, kelp/iodine & auto-immune issue

From: SarinaX@aol.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:36:25 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from SarinaX@aol.com:



I wrote to the lady (Mary) whose web site I previously put on one of my posts,

and I also corresponded with a hypothyorid patient who similarly wrote to

Mary. Here are her responses on kelp/iodine. Notice her mention of

hypothyroidism being an auto-immune disease. :) 



My letter to Mary:



> Dear Mary,

>

> I want to thank you for what you are doing. I have learned so much from your

> work, so I am sure many others have to. It is wonderful.

>

> Secondly, I have a question. There is something I am very confused about. It

> is the kelp/iodine issue. I use to take kelp in pills but heard it would

> interefere with my synthroid and just in general was not good for my

thyroid,

> so I quit. Yesterday I bought a natural calcium supplement, and when I got

it

> home it had irish moss in it. I am pretty sure it is the same as kelp, that

is

> for iodine. I can't take that vitamin back since I opened it, and it was

from

> a health food store, therefore expensive. But I like it. Now, here is my

> quesiton. Since I am having trouble getting my doc's to raise my synthroid

dose

> which in turn would lower my tsh levels, in which direction would kelp or

> irish moss push my tsh levels? Up or down? Because if they would push them

> down, that is exactly what I may be in need of. Oh, I never felt sick at all

> when I took the kelp pills and just became worried it may effect my tsh

levels

> in a negative way. That is the only reason I stopped. However, since the

doctor

> won't help me get past my tsh of 3.7 and down to 1.0 - 2.0, I feel very

> frustrated and maybe the addition of kelp will help do that? I have been

> cutting my synthroid in quareters, raising my own dose from 1 mcg. to 1.25

mcg.

> I don't like doing this, but they leave me no choice. So if kelp will help,

> that would be better.

>

> Thank you for your time. Take care. I hope all is well for you.

>

> Sincerely,

> Sarina 

***********

Her response:



Kelp is a major controversy. You'll find some say it helps, others not. My

personal idea is be careful of kelp and iodine.  They are known to irritate

the

thyroid that is underactive due to autoimmune disease.  Lack of iodine was, in

previous generations, the cause of  "some" thyroid disease, mainly goiters. It

is

not the cause of Hashimotos Thyroiditis, the most common cause of

hypothyroidism. In  fact, the leading alternative medicine practitioner who

writes on thyroid disease, Dr. Langer, does NOT recommend kelp or iodine

supplements as they further irritate the autoimmune thyroid and can worsen

thyroid problems.



You might want to read my article, Vitamins and Nutritional Supplements for

Thyroid Disease, which looks at the best information available on vitamins and

nutritional supplements for thyroid disease. The article is located at

http://thyroid.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa080398.htm



Salud



Mary

*****************

Here is the letter the online pateint wrote to Mary and forwarded to me:



> Mary..thank you so much for managing this site and thank the Mining Co

> for me too.  I was just reading your article on nutritional supplements

> and came across the issue of Kelp.  I had Graves in '91, too Radioactive

> Iodine in pillform.  Of course I've had many years of thyroid ups and

> downs.  Have recently had my meds increased 4 times to a dosage of .2

> now..this is worrying me and my doctor.

> 

> I have always taken a vitamin that has both Kelp and L-Tyrosine in it.

> I've been told that the L-Tyrosine binds to the meds and makes them more

> effective (from someone who posts here at the Mining Co).  So I've

> continued taking the vitamin.  But after reading your article...I'm

> wondering about the Kelp.  Obviously I don't have Graves anymore...just

> Hypo.

> 

> So what do you think about this?  If I stop the vitamin..I lose the

> benefit of the L-Tyrosine, but gain the benefit of not taking the Kelp.

> Hum.  What to do.

> 

> I have bigger concerns however...my thyroid tests showed another

> drop..(or increase in my TSH from .48 to 3.0).  The Doc thinks I need to

> have the entire thyroid removed to stop the ups and severe downs.

> 

> Anyway...I don't want to wear your typing fingers out...thanks for being

> there!

> 

> Best Wishes..Marcia 

*************

Mary's reply:



Marcia--



L-tyrosine is a precursor to thyroid hormone and can affect thyroid 

function, and kelp is known to create exactly the ups and downs you 

are talking about in thyroid function. Be VERY careful. 



In your shoes, I'd probably go off the vitamin asap, and see if the 

TSH stabilized at all.



Second, I'd ABSOLUTELY get a second opinion and probably a new 

doctor after a doctor says to remove the thyroid for fluctuating 

within the normal range. MANY things can change TSH, illness, your 

diet, whether you're eating soy or high fiber, starting or stopping 

calcium, iron or estrogen supplements, etc. To suggest surgery 

without full investigation of all these factors means you have a doc 

who doesn't know what's going on.



Salud--



Mary

*****************

Mary is not a doctor but she is knowledgeable and her newsletter has been

given mention from Time Online Magazine. 



<3

Sarina





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Ginkgo study

From: diana.rae@autodesk.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:07:27 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from diana.rae@autodesk.com:



* A new report concludes that extracts of the Ginkgo biloba (G.biloba)

  tree may improve memory function in patients with Alzheimer's disease.

    - researchers at the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland

      reviewed four studied of G.biloba involving 424 Alzheimer's

      patients to collect data; patients took 120-240 mg of G.biloba

      extract for three to six months.

    - the meta-review found that those patients taking the extract

      scored about two points higher in a memory tests, compared

      to placebo recipients, while patients taking drugs approved

      by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration scored about three

      points higher than placebo recipients.

    - researchers say the findings indicate that further, large-scale

      studies of G.biloba's effect on memory should be conducted.

    - the report is in the Archives of Neurology (1998;55:1409-1415).





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: What is this?

From: "rpschmid" <rpschmid@public.cta.cq.cn>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:58:15 +0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "rpschmid" <rpschmid@public.cta.cq.cn>:



Hello I'm new to this list.  I wrote once before on the

endometriosis question.  I should explain that I am an

American and I live in Chongqing, China and don't have

access to any written materials on herbs, etc. so please

pardon me if I sound stupid when I ask questions.  I am

seeking help from the wealth of knowledge in the members of

this list forum.  I am trying to improve my health

situation, but many of the Chinese options here have no

translation into English.  And if I describe how I feel

using western terminology (i.e.. hormones, endometriosis,

cysts, etc.) the local doctors don't understand - even with

a translator.  And I do speak Mandarin too.  SO I am

accepting that I must use their system and I also have to

establish a trusting relationship with the Chinese doctor.

It is difficult to have blind trust and just take what they

give you without knowing what you are taking.  My worry is

that they will give me something that will stimulate my

estrogen level which is already high - and which triggers my

endometriosis problems.  I do believe in the benefits of

traditional Chinese medicine - but I would also like to know

the explanation behind it.  Can anyone help me out?



Here is the ingredients of one of the over the counter

"female" formulas that was suggested to me.  The "pills" are

dark brown/black in color, malleable in form, taste is

strong - sweet & bitter, the size is slightly smaller than a

ping pong ball.  They have something to do with the black

skinned chicken.  Each pill is 9 gr.



The main ingredients are listed as: "Pullus Cum Osse Nigro,

Radix Ginseng, Concha Ostreae, Radix Angelicae Sinensis,

Radix Rehmaniae Preparata, Rhizoma Cyperi and Radix

Stellariae."



Dosage is "1pill each time, twice daily - taken with

lukewarm water or yellow rice wine."  (I am assuming you

either cut the pill up and swallow it bit by bit - or you

chew it?)



Action is "to invigorate the vital energy, nourish the

blood, regulate menstruation and stop leukorrhea."



Can anyone help me to learn about the ingredients??  And

what they do??  Any help is very much appreciated as the

doctors here couldn't explain.



Thank you,  Diane







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: What is this?

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:32:32 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> My worry is

> that they will give me something that will stimulate my

> estrogen level which is already high - and which triggers my

> endometriosis problems.  



Treatment of 'endometriosis' (as an entity) is of course not traditional. They

conceived the illness based on its presentation, not its physiological

actuality, which they described at best as Stuck Blood outside the Collaterals

(pathways) or outside the Chong Channel (which irrigates the middle of the

abdomen). 



And, indeed, endometriosis is BEST treated not by herbs or drugs, but by

lifestyle change and QIGONG, with herbs for your GENERAL condition, not

particularly for the endometriosis. The reason is that the herbs really can't

clean out the blood very well (it is 'outside' the [normal] pathways).



Being in China is the ultimate advantage for discovering Qigong, which is a

kind of relaxing movement exercise that is quite frankly WONDERFUL. Qigong can

completely relieve endometrial pain syndromes, and that means normalizing the

condition. Whether the endometrial tissue is still there, if it is not causing

a problem, it is not at all fatal. The biggest danger is the CONTINUED

ACCUMULATION of stuck blood, through continued lifestyle errors. 



The idea that endometriosis is predominantly inherited or prenatal is utter

bunk.



> The "pills" are

> dark brown/black in color, malleable in form, taste is

> strong



Wujibaifeng (black chicken white bone: a kind of chicken) Wan (pills) are a

classical therapy for women's problems. The chicken is a white chicken with

black legs. It has long been thought to be especially nourishing to women. On

the other hand, chicken as the animal of the liver is thought by some,

including me, to be too stimulating for American women in many cases. The

consumption of poultry by such women is a cause of illness, even perhaps

cancer. So so much for the absolute health value of chicken. "What has a back

has a front," to quote the phrase.



> The main ingredients are listed as: "Pullus Cum Osse Nigro,

> Radix Ginseng, Concha Ostreae, Radix Angelicae Sinensis,

> Radix Rehmaniae Preparata, Rhizoma Cyperi and Radix

> Stellariae."



Only the Cyperi rotunda and Angelica sinensis actually would treat

endometriosis directly. The rest are nourishing herbs (including the chicken),

which are generally good to take, but will not dramatically change your endo.

unless the condition is a result of exhaustion or depletion. Since women are

OFTEN depleted, and have cyclical energetic phasing, they generally benefit

from such a therapy without it having to be precise to their actual condition.

But those benefits are to the general health, which means improvement of the

endo. but not direct treatment of it. 



It is a good idea to discontinue the therapy while you are menstruating, and in

fact, nourishing therapy should be stopped in the premenstrual portion of the

cycle as well, or the formula should be modified to become a blood vitalization

therapy (more herbs to move blood).



I cannot emphasize Qigong enough. China has specific exercises taught in wings

of hospitals (and elsewhere) SPECIFICALLY for endometriosis (which shows you,

as an aside, the relatively recent development of Qigong---not so ancient as

some would think, though much of it IS ancient).



> Dosage is "1pill each time, twice daily - taken with

> lukewarm water or yellow rice wine."  (I am assuming you

> either cut the pill up and swallow it bit by bit - or you

> chew it?)



Chew them. Doesn't really matter. The rice wine is the PREFERRED method, but

not if there are signs of heat (hot flashes or the like) or a history of

alcoholism of course. Seaweed is generally very good for endometriosis, as is

miso, and various kinds of traditional pickels. Also, southern Chinese eat sea

slug, which is considered specific for female problems, much like the

wujibaifeng.



> Action is "to invigorate the vital energy, nourish the

> blood, regulate menstruation and stop leukorrhea."



'Regulation of menstruation' indeed will balance the hormone levels, even

though 'hormones' (discovered by the Chinese in fact, several hundred years

before the West) were not a part of the conceptual perspective involved.

 

> Can anyone help me to learn about the ingredients??



> Thank you,  Diane



Ginseng boosts vital energy, Angelica boosts blood and helps blood circulate,

Stellariae nourishes Yin (a subtle portion of the blood, in this case, perhaps

somewhat akin to hormones), Rehmannia nourishes Yin as well, the chicken

nourishes the blood particularly well (it is thought), and oyster shell is

there to help 'break up' accumulations (of stuck blood, in this case). It also

provides a mild sedation. I find Wujibaifeng Wan quite tasty.



What a wonderful opportunity to be in China in these days. I envy you. Please

look into the Qigong. It is crucial in this kind of case.



Best regards,



Paul

(coming soon: herb-room.com)





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loade

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:32:39 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> licorice root (usually in Chai) 



Chai does not traditionally contain licorice (it contains cinnamon, cardamon,

cloves, black pepper, tea, milk, and honey). I presume you mean as a sweetener?



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Endometoriosis and other benefits of Red Cl

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:05:17 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



>  Spreading such statistical threats is not what I consider proper speech for

>  healers. 'Males' CANNOT get breast cancer. Only individuals can.

>   >>

> 

> This was not a threat Paul. 



Oh, indeed it is. "BEWARE, you can get cancer." That is a threat. Many, many

people will NEVER get cancer, and there is no reason to put such ideas in their

heads.



>I was just giving information. 



That is no excuse. Look at WHAT you are saying.



>And by the

> way, males can get breast cancer. I saw a man on a documentary who had it!



You saw a MAN who got cancer. MEN is not a man, it is a gender. MEN are not

vulnerable to cancer as a class. Many men are; many men are NOT.



Threatening people with statistics is how you get to such contaminating

statements, and they are POISON (and I don't mean fish).



Try this one on: "Don't worry! You'll NEVER get cancer." That is certainly true

for MANY people.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Endometoriosis and other benefits of Red Cl

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:15:25 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



>  Oh, indeed it is. "BEWARE, you can get cancer." That is a threat.

> Many, many

>  people will NEVER get cancer, and there is no reason to put such ideas in

> their

>  heads.<<

> 

> I said it in a joking way. Lighten up!



Well, in my universe you are disqualifying yourself as a healer. You are

spreading disease.



I know this is off-topic, but to those who can see what I am pointing at, there

it is. This is WHY I cannot support conventional medicine in its ravages of the

human race.



Being afraid of cancer is a form of the disease. If you succeed in awakening

that fear in someone who had nothing to fear, you have done them a GREAT

disservice. I am sure you are a kind person; you don't know what you are doing

when you say such things at the behest of statisticians. 



If you are not in a statistical group because YOU AREN'T, then you aren't

vulnerable to what is really a FALSE ANALOGY. 



Cancer CANNOT be acquired by many people, but if you take up their hearts with

worry about it, maybe you can transmit it. 



You are doing cancer's work...not the task of healing.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: sinusitis/runny nose suggestion and a loaded q

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:05:45 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> First, I have an "almost" herbal suggestion for sinusitis/runny nose folks.

> There has been a lot of discussion about the dryness problem, and I have a

> really simple solution:  I "snort" a cup of salt water (sometime with minor

> herbs of choice added) at least three times a day.



Nope, that won't do it. Dryness the pathogenic factor CANNOT be eliminated by

such means. Such is a temporary measure, and the dryness remains to haunt you

some more.



Paul





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: agorafobia and panic disorder

From: "wadada" <woodpecker@italway.it>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:41:17 +0100

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "wadada" <woodpecker@italway.it>:



Does anyone knows which herbs are usefull in agorafobia and panic disorder

conditions? thank you.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:  agorafobia and panic disorder

From: MDLukacs@aol.com

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:07:49 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from MDLukacs@aol.com:





In a message dated 11/18/98 9:41:50 AM, you wrote:



<<Does anyone knows which herbs are usefull in agorafobia and panic disorder



conditions? thank you.



>>



I have heard Bugleweed is helpful, but this is only heresay.  Can anyone

comment on this ?



Thanks,

Denise





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: agorafobia and panic disorder

From: "wadada" <woodpecker@italway.it>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:51:45 +0100

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "wadada" <woodpecker@italway.it>:



Thank you for answering me, but what is Bugleweed?? you know I'm

Italian.Thank u.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: agorafobia and panic disorder

From: Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:25:54 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Donna Magee <kuanyin@worldnet.att.net>:



wadada wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from "wadada" <woodpecker@italway.it>:

> 

> Thank you for answering me, but what is Bugleweed?? you know I'm

> Italian.Thank u.



There are several plants called Bugle but all belong to the mint 

family. The one that is seditive is Lycopus virginicus and is a common 

weed in shady areas. In addition to this plant being a seditive James 

Duke says in his book Medicinal Plants  it is being studied for 

treating hyperthroidism altho I have not seen any other research 

concerning this. Donna







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:23:04 +0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>:



I made a tincture using dried herb Cnicus benedictus (blessed thistle) and 60-65%

alcohol.  I later infused the strained herb as part of a "learning experiment"

hoping to extract any minerals remaining, and added it back to the alcohol tincture

so as to "preserve" the solution.  The final alcohol percentage was around 30%



Four days later, I noticed a layer of what looked like sediment on the bottom of

the jar.   Upon casual examination, it looked like mold.  Tomorrow I will take it

to a friend with a good microscope and look for mycelium fruiting bodies. Could

mold even grow in a 30% alcohol mixture?



With a slight amount of agitation, it floated to the top in several pieces, and

with more agitation, broke up into fine particles which remained suspended at the

top.



I don't plan on using my "experiment gone awry" unless someone might have some

observations or comments that could shed light.  Could it be possible that there is

bacteria growing in the alcohol tincture?  Or is it possible that this is JUST

sedimentation?  It is fairly easy to check for mold, but what other methods might

exist to check out what this substance is (that would be within the means of a poor

student)?



Thanks in advance



Susana (still learning...long ways to go)







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:48:01 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Mold should not grow in alcohol concentrations of more than 23%, assuming

you calculated correctly.  That said, I have some dry root ashwaganda

tinctured in 40% alcohol with a similar scum on top.  Let us know what

your scum turns out to be- I was suspecting yeast.  (You may be able to

salvage the tincture.)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:23:04 +0000 Susana Augustyn <augustyn@COLBY.IXKS.COM>

writes:

>I made a tincture using dried herb Cnicus benedictus (blessed thistle) and 60-65%

>alcohol.  I later infused the strained herb as part of a "learning experiment"

>hoping to extract any minerals remaining, and added it back to the alcohol tincture

>so as to "preserve" the solution.  The final alcohol percentage was around 30%



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:49:39 +0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>:







creationsgarden@juno.com wrote:



> Mold should not grow in alcohol concentrations of more than 23%, assuming

> you calculated correctly.  That said, I have some dry root ashwaganda

> tinctured in 40% alcohol with a similar scum on top.  Let us know what

> your scum turns out to be- I was suspecting yeast.  (You may be able to

> salvage the tincture.)

>



I took a sample over to a friend with a good microscope.  We didn't observe any mold or

bacteria cells, but he did suspect yeast but didn't get a positive ID.  Can I assume

the tincture is okay to use? Or is further testing needed?  Any suggestions on how to

further test?



The original plant material was dried.



Thanks,



Susana









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 06:22:31 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:49:39 +0000, Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>

wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>I took a sample over to a friend with a good microscope.  We didn't observe any mold or

>bacteria cells, but he did suspect yeast but didn't get a positive ID.  Can I assume

>the tincture is okay to use? Or is further testing needed?  Any suggestions on how to

>further test?



Toss it. No reason to poison yourself and others when you are trying to heal

them... and NEVER use anything but highest quality. What you have doesn't sound

like highest quality to me. At all.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:50:18 +0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>:



> >I took a sample over to a friend with a good microscope.  We didn't observe any mold or

> >bacteria cells, but he did suspect yeast but didn't get a positive ID.  Can I assume

> >the tincture is okay to use? Or is further testing needed?  Any suggestions on how to

> >further test?

>

> Toss it. No reason to poison yourself and others when you are trying to heal

> them... and NEVER use anything but highest quality. What you have doesn't sound

> like highest quality to me. At all.

>



What I really have is a good learning experience under my belt!  I will toss the defective

tincture. Thanks for the advice!



I am still intrigued with the idea of making an infusion with the strained herb (after

making a tincture) so as to extract whatever minerals may be left.  Perhaps my methods were

faulty.  Any advice on how to have better luck?  Or is this just a pipe dream?



Thanks again,



Susana







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:36:44 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



>I took a sample over to a friend with a good microscope. 



What magnification did you use on the microscope?



 We didn't observe any mold or

>bacteria cells, but he did suspect yeast but didn't get a positive ID.

Can I assume

>the tincture is okay to use? 



Do not assume anything.



>Or is further testing needed?  



Yes if you have the time, materials and the opportunity.



>Any suggestions on how to

>further test?

>

>The original plant material was dried.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Susana

>



Does your friend have an oil immersion objective on his microscope? I think

that is what you need. You will be able to see cultures of bacteria, yeasts

and molds with a microscope but you will need oil immersion to identify them.



There are other tests, like staining, biochemical tests, immunological

tests, serological tests etc.

Try the oil immersion first and if you think you will like to continue then

I will be willing to guide you through some of the other tests.



Enjoy your research.



Louis





Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:52:29 +0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>:







Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli wrote:



> >I took a sample over to a friend with a good microscope.

>

> What magnification did you use on the microscope?



400X was the best he had. He has access to other better microscopes - but they are

located in another city. Hopefully in December.





> >Or is further testing needed?

>

> Yes if you have the time, materials and the opportunity.

>

> I threw out all but a few ounces so I could observe it more.  I had planned on

> letting it sit awhile to see if anything grew - mostly out of curiosity.



> There are other tests, like staining, biochemical tests, immunological

> tests, serological tests etc.

> Try the oil immersion first and if you think you will like to continue then

> I will be willing to guide you through some of the other tests.

>



Thanks for all the information and help!  I would like to try the oil emersion - I

will keep you posted.



susana







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>

Date: 20 Nov 1998 09:09 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Tony Juhasz" <juhasz@nortel.ca>:



I don't think that yeast grows in alcohol greater than 22%.  Hence the limit

on strong beer/wine.





In message "mold, bacteria or simply sediment?", you write:

> To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:

> Mold should not grow in alcohol concentrations of more than 23%, assuming

> you calculated correctly.  That said, I have some dry root ashwaganda

> tinctured in 40% alcohol with a similar scum on top.  Let us know what

> your scum turns out to be- I was suspecting yeast.  (You may be able to

> salvage the tincture.)







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:51:57 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



You could use a spagyric processing, taking some of the marc and putting

it in a cast iron frying pan, then reducing it to ashes, which can be

added back to your tincture.  You will get the some of the minerals but

not other water-soluble constituents.



Or use the same procedure you did, but alter the proportions so there is

a higher alcohol concentration.  (The usual cautions of proof not

equalling percentage and water content in the herb needing to be taken

into account still apply.)  Sometimes I add glycerine to the reduced

decoction and let it remacerate before adding it to the alcohol tincture.

 



However as an old winemaker I am less concerned about yeast than

Henriette. (But I would test further for a positive ID.)   Yeast will die

when the alcohol concentration is high enough and can be "fined" out.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Protect the Ecology.  Boycott Monsanto products including "Terminator"

seeds, bt-NewLeaf potatos, Roundup, Ortho garden products, NutraSweet,

Equal, Ambien, Arthrotec, and genetically engineered soybeans, corn, and

cotton. See http://www.rafi.org



On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:50:18 +0000 Susana Augustyn

<augustyn@COLBY.IXKS.COM> writes:

>I am still intrigued with the idea of making an infusion with the 

>strained herb (after making a tincture) so as to extract whatever 

>minerals may be left. Perhaps my methods were faulty.  Any advice 

>on how to have better luck?  Or is this just a pipe dream?



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:25:48 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<I took a sample over to a friend with a good microscope.  We didn't

observe any mold or

bacteria cells, but he did suspect yeast but didn't get a positive ID.  >



Do you all want to explain to me the differences between "yeast" & "mold?" I

am a long time sufferer of a yeast over growth in my body called

candidiasis. In all the research I have done on the disease, I've learned

yeast IS a mold. I am severely sensitive to any moldy foods like cheese, or

any fermented food like vinegar that would contain molds. If my tinctures

are growing yeast than I would be in big trouble.

Maureen









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:59:04 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 10:25 AM 11/21/98 -0500, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



>

>Do you all want to explain to me the differences between "yeast" & "mold?" I

>am a long time sufferer of a yeast over growth in my body called

>candidiasis. In all the research I have done on the disease, I've learned

>yeast IS a mold. I am severely sensitive to any moldy foods like cheese, or

>any fermented food like vinegar that would contain molds. If my tinctures

>are growing yeast than I would be in big trouble.

>Maureen

>

>

Hi Maureen,

Fungus is a general term that includes the two different forms MOLDS and

YEASTS.



Most MOLDS consist of tubular, branching eucaryotic cells called hyphae. As

molds continue to grow, the hyphae branch, intermingle, and often fuse to

eventually form a visible cobweblike aggregation like that seen on moldy

bread or fruit. These structures are called MYCELIA.



The fungi known as YEASTS are oval, spherical, or elongated cells that form

moist, shining colonies.



This is a very simplified definition to differentiate between the two.



The study of Fungi is MYCOLOGY and can get very complex. It basically

divided into the LOWER FUNGI and the HIGHER FUNGI.



Fungi play such an important role in the slow but constant changes taking

place around us because of their ubiquity and their astonishingly large

numbers. Specifically, fungi are the agents responsible for much of the

disintegration of organic matter, and as such they affect us directly by

destroying food, fabrics, leather, and other consumers' goods manufactured

from raw materials subject to fungal attack; they cause the majority of

known plant diseases, and many diseases of animals and of man; they are the

basis of a number of industrial processes involving fermentation, such as

the making of bread, wines, beers, the preparation of certain cheeses; they

are employed in the commercial production of many organic acids and of some

vitamin preparations, and are responsible for the manufacture of a number

of antiobiotic drugs, notably penicillin. Fungi are both destructive and

beneficial to agriculture. On the one hand they are responsible for

millions of dollars' worth of damage to crops by causing plant disease,

while on the other they increase the fertility of the soil by inducing

various changes which eventually result in the release of plant nutrients

in a form available to green plants.



Under the form-class DEUTEROMYCETES (the imperfect fungi) come the Candida

and Trichosporon. Candida albicans is more yeast-like in that it normally

reproduces by budding.

Normally saprobic, this ever-present fungus sometimes turns pathogenic and

causes candidiasis, a human disease which may take a number of forms:

candidiasis of the mucous membranes, cutaneous candidiasis (an infection of

the skin, nails etc), broncho-pulmonary candidiasis, and pulmonary

candidiasis, which is the most serious of all.



Candidiasis is at least partly attributed to the ever-increasing use of

antibiotics which kill both beneficial and harmful bacteria in the human

body and probably create conditions under which Candida albicans becomes

pathogenic.



Bread mold for example comes under a different class called the

ZYGOMYCETES. One of the orders under this class, the MUCORALES, are

saprobes, living on such substrata as dung and decaying plant or animal

matter. They are capable of synthesizing important industrial products.

Rhizopus stolonifer, the common bread mold is used commercially for the

manufacture of fumaric acid and some steps in the manufacture of CORTISONE.

Rhizopus oryzae is capable of producing considerable quantities of alcohol. 



Bottom line:

Yeast is a FUNGI, mold is a FUNGI, but yeast is not mold.

It is a huge family with the members having different functions and

properties just like plants.



I hope this helps



Louis

Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:22:00 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<Most MOLDS consist of tubular, branching eucaryotic cells called hyphae.

As

molds continue to grow, the hyphae branch, intermingle, and often fuse to

eventually form a visible cobweblike aggregation like that seen on moldy

bread or fruit. These structures are called MYCELIA.>>



Thank you for your very informative post. Most of which I have already

learned in my many years of dealing with candidiasis. If it is true that

yeast are not molds then alot of information I have read is false. Or

misleading. I will take that in to consideration as I study further.

Also, I have learned, as the candida albicans advance they can actually

change their form & go from a fungal stage to a mycelial stage which is much

more aggressive.

 I wonder then, if at least we understand that yeast & molds are both from

the same family "fungi," why a tincture containing mold is any worse off

then one containing yeast?

Thank you again,

Maureen











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:38:19 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:





>Also, I have learned, as the candida albicans advance they can actually

>change their form & go from a fungal stage to a mycelial stage which is much

>more aggressive.



I have also seen similar usage of words. Another example: Someone said "the

candida becomes pathogenic, transforming from a simple yeast into an

aggressive (mycelial) fungus.



Well my point is: Candida albicans is already a fungus. It cannot be

changed into what it is already. 



The different forms of fungi have life cycles where they change from the

spore stage to a mycelial stage and then back to the spore stage. The cycle

goes on and on to prevent extinction of the species.



Yes the mycelial stage will be more aggressive because it is invasive and

causes inflammation of the affected tissues.



> I wonder then, if at least we understand that yeast & molds are both from

>the same family "fungi," why a tincture containing mold is any worse off

>then one containing yeast?



They come from the same DIVISION: Mycota, but are from different families.



I am sure you are aware of the classification in plants:

Kingdom, Division, Sub-division, Class, Sub-class, Order, Family, Genus,

Species.

It is exactly the same in Fungi.



I do not think it is a good idea to allow mold or yeast to grow in your

tincture. All utensils should be sterilised for at least 30 minutes. Your

tinctures should keep for a long time.



Unless you are dealing with a specific fungi which you have already

identified, and want it to produce something or change an active ingredient

into something else. But that is in the realm of research.



If you want more information or have a lot of questions I will suggest you

go to the Lactic acid listserv. I was the administrator for that listserv

for 2 years when I was doing my PhD. There are a lot of expects from

Industry and academia on that list. Their interest is in lactic acid

forming bacteria and fungi etc.



Thanks



Louis





Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:04:40 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



<<The different forms of fungi have life cycles where they change from

the

spore stage to a mycelial stage and then back to the spore stage. The

cycle

goes on and on to prevent extinction of the species.



Yes the mycelial stage will be more aggressive because it is invasive and

causes inflammation of the affected tissues.>>



Thank you for the correction.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:54:53 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



I think there is a lot of misinformation about candidaisis out there. 

One of the most pernicious myths is that if Candida albicans is in

overgrowth then all microbial forms, including those which might compete

with candida and bring it into balance, are bad.  We are walking colonies

of organisms with 80-90% of the cells in our bodies by number and 10% of

the cells by mass belonging to other organisms.  (This does not include

mitochondria which have their own DNA.)



Candida is a problem of ecological balance.  We need to differentiate

between Candida and Saccharomyces cerevisiae (especially inactivated

forms which only hurt those few candida sufferers who have cross-allergic

reactions- but have benefitted others), let alone the various

Lactobacillus, Bacillus, Streptococcus, Lueconostoc, Rhizopus,

Aspergillus, Pediococcus and other species from traditional fermented

foods which strengthen our internal biota.  Candida yeasts go into

overgrowth because (1) antibiotics have decreased the competing

organisms, often causing leaky gut syndrome and (2) dietary indiscretions

have provided a  sugar-rich breeding ground.  They are hard to get rid of

because they have gotten past the self-cleaning intestinal tract and are

lodged in areas where it takes a more rigorous regimen to overcome them.



Ganoderma is a fungus that grows on trees and is very useful to candida

sufferers.  It cannot grow itself in the human body and will not cause

further candida overgrowth.  It will strengthen the immune system and

practitioners like Christopher Hobbs have never seen it harm candida

sufferers.  Maitaki and shitaki have similar beneficial effects.  So we

don't avoid all funguses because one yeast has gone into overgrowth.  



I have seen blue cheese stop intestinal candida overgrowth in its tracts,

because the probiotic organisms protected by the milkfat can get to the

gut where they are able to compete and repopulate the gut.



If you are sensitive to fermented foods like vinegars it may be because

the food still contains sugars that can ferment with the Candida and that

the vinegar is sufficiently diluted in your body that the acid does not

prevent the growth (as it does in the bottle.)  IOW it is your yeast

reacting on the growth medium of partially fermented grape or apple

juice.  Ditto with breads.



If a yeast infection appears to have a mycelial stage, either (1) there

is a secondary organism in overgrowth and the terrain needs to be

addressed in terms of both that and the candida, or (2) replication is

changing the organism for some reason.  However organisms tend not to

completely transmute in a short period of time or we would never be able

to identify species of microbiota.  I suspect that this information is

incorrect although it is technically not impossible.



A 40% tincture would contain inactive forms.  If there is a

cross-allergic reaction on your part, it would not be a good idea to use

it.  But the specific organism would be important to identify because

most likely you are not allergic to all organisms, regardless of family

status.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:22:00 -0500 "Maureen Hicks"

<rotty4me@tdstelme.net> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:

>

>Thank you for your very informative post. Most of which I have already

>learned in my many years of dealing with candidiasis. If it is true that

>yeast are not molds then alot of information I have read is false. Or

>misleading. I will take that in to consideration as I study further.

>Also, I have learned, as the candida albicans advance they can actually

>change their form & go from a fungal stage to a mycelial stage which 

>is much more aggressive.

> I wonder then, if at least we understand that yeast & molds are both 

>from the same family "fungi," why a tincture containing mold is any

worse 

>off then one containing yeast?

>Thank you again,

>Maureen

>

>

>

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:13:21 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:22:00 -0500, "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:



> I wonder then, if at least we understand that yeast & molds are both from

>the same family "fungi," why a tincture containing mold is any worse off

>then one containing yeast?



There are a couple really toxic molds around. For example, you don't want any

aflatoxin in your peanuts... I'm sure there are similar things among the yeasts.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:20:54 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 10:13 AM 11/22/98 GMT, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):

>

>On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:22:00 -0500, "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

>wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:

>

>> I wonder then, if at least we understand that yeast & molds are both from

>>the same family "fungi," why a tincture containing mold is any worse off

>>then one containing yeast?

>

>There are a couple really toxic molds around. For example, you don't want any

>aflatoxin in your peanuts... I'm sure there are similar things among the

yeasts.

>

>Henriette

>



Yes, well said.



Additional information:

Certain Deuteromycetes produce poisons known as MYCOTOXINS. Although most

molds growing on foods are harmless, some are not.Aspergillus flavus and

other fungi, which often grow on stored cereal products and nuts, produce

one type of mycotoxin, aflatoxins from the term (Aspergillus FLAvus TOXIN),

which are quite toxic to many animal species.



Species of the Oomycetes cause some of the most destructive plant diseases

known. These include downy mildew of grapes, which nearly ruined the French

wine industry.



Now this is the interesting part:



Several disease-causing fungi are DIMORPHIC, exhibiting two different forms

under two different environmental conditions. Under certain environmental

conditions these organisms exhibit their normal type of saprobic form, but

in animal tissues or when grown on rich nutrient preparation at higher

temperatures, they appear as yeasts. The term SAPROPHYTIC FORM form has

been suggested for the mold phase, PARASITIC FORM for the yeast stage.



Louis

Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:43:28 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I have seen blue cheese stop intestinal candida overgrowth in its tracts,

> because the probiotic organisms protected by the milkfat can get to the

> gut where they are able to compete and repopulate the gut.



This was such a well-reasoned, well-written post that I must applaud you,

Karen. It takes considerable skill to organize one's thoughts to that degree.



Paul





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Graham White" <hendongreen@gn.apc.org>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:52:22 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Graham White" <hendongreen@gn.apc.org>:



<snip>



Since Henriette is permitting this Candida masterclass, I'll add a few

comments:



C. albicans is an imperfect fungus - this means that there is no known

sexual stage ie. it is diploid throughout its life cycle whereas most other

fungi have a sexual (or perfect) stage during which they are haploid and

combine to produce genetically variable offspring eg. mushrooms are the

fruiting body of a soil fungus.  Some yeast geneticists think that the

genome now contains so many recesive genes that the haploid stage would be

non-viable.

As a result C. albicans has developed a unique (up to 6 years age when I

stopped working with C. albicans) ability for producing genetic variability

called "switching" in that under certain circumstances it is physically able

to move genes from one chromosome to another.  This enables it to survive

things like starvation, antifungal therapy and other stressors. (Paul will

no doubt think that this is incorrigably reductionist)





>Now this is the interesting part:

>

>Several disease-causing fungi are DIMORPHIC, exhibiting two different forms

>under two different environmental conditions. Under certain environmental

>conditions these organisms exhibit their normal type of saprobic form, but

>in animal tissues or when grown on rich nutrient preparation at higher

>temperatures, they appear as yeasts. The term SAPROPHYTIC FORM form has

>been suggested for the mold phase, PARASITIC FORM for the yeast stage.





It is very easy to make C. albicans change from one phase to another and

back again by modifying its environmental conditions.



A quote from the orthodox bible on Candida "Candida and Candidosis" by Frank

Odds:

'The usual observation about the microscopic appearance of C. albicans in

infected human tissues is that a mixture of budding yeasts, pseudohyphae and

true hyphae can be seen' (p. 43)



Cheers



Graham White

----------------------



hendongreen@gn.apc.org

gw035@mdx.ac.uk







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Avoiding cancer & immune system support, was Re: sinusitis/runny nose

From: "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:12:35 PST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>:



Hi Paul,



>From owner-herb@MyList.net Tue Nov 17 23:39:07 1998

>Reply-To: herb@MyList.net

>

>To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:

>

>> licorice root (usually in Chai) 

>

>Chai does not traditionally contain licorice (it contains cinnamon,  

>cardamon, cloves, black pepper, tea, milk, and honey). I presume you > 

mean as a sweetener?



I have seen many recipes for Chai on the Net.  Depending on whose recipe 

I looked at, I found recipes with licorice root, anise, ginger root, and 

vanilla.  (I am making some winter medicinal tea blends for christmas 

presents.)  These other, less traditional ingredients make the tea 

useful for chemo patients & can help ease cold, flu & allergy symptoms.  

The Russian versions of winter herbal teas can contain orange juice or 

lemon juice.  (I like the lemon.)



Using less sugar is a good for immune system, but I started using 

licorice root looking for some of its other benefits, like support to 

the adrenals and general immune support after chemo.  Also, I like the 

flavor.



I should add, I love to use lowfat, vanilla flavored soy drink in place 

of the milk or half & half in my winter teas.  My cancer was ovarian.  I 

always felt like I had too much estrogen.  Now I find soy is recommended 

for helping reduce the chances of developing breast cancer. (I am a high 

risk candidate for breast cancer & soy apparently helps reduce the risk 

of developing breast cancer by tying up the estrogen receptors.  I am 

still researching the subject.)  The vanilla also helps reduce the sugar 

required.   



I love reading the posts about cancer & ways to avoid it.  Herbs seem to 

be powerful tools to help in the fight.  I look for scientific 

validation of active ingridients, but it really does not matter if the 

herbs work perfectly in the clinical sense.  From personal experience I 

know that when you are sick it helps to think in terms of "this herb I 

am taking is stimulating my immune system to grow new immune cells I 

need to overcome this disease I have" because focusing on the healing 

properties of the herb (rather than the ill effects of the disease) can 

effectively stimulate your body to fight. 



Thanks to the knowlegable herbalists on this list who are willing to 

share what they have learned,



Barbara 



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





==========

To: Medicinal and Aromatic Plants list <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: echinacea and autoimmune

From: Ray Bayley <silwit@SUBA.COM>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:46:47 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Ray Bayley <silwit@suba.com>:



quoting Henriette Kress responding to me

>>	We can also hope that

>>a)pulsing echinacea (which is rather traditional),

>

>What do you mean with that? Homeopathy? This is a list for herbs, not

>homeopathy. The twain are -quite- different.

	Yes, I know the difference between herbs and homeopathy and, yes, I

know that this is not a homeopathy list (yes, I read your frequent

reminders about what this list is about).

	Pulsing echinacea is something I believe I have seen on this and

certainly other lists, have been told by herbologists that work in the same

clinic I do, and is something that I have read.  I am suprised that you

have not heard the term before...well, almost everyday I am suprised in my

own fields of knowledge.  It means being on and off the dose, e.g. 1 week

on 4 days off, in a cycle.  I have been told many times that it is a

traditional thing to do with echinacea long-term regimens.  When I found

the echninacea-TNF thing, the two herbologists I mentioned this to felt it

was probably a reason why pulsing was originally formulated.



>>b)combining it with traditional companions (e.g. goldenseal),

>

>Which is a mindbogglingly silly combo. Ech helps in the beginning of an

	"Mindbogglingly silly" eh?  Since I don't recall you being

personally insulting in the past, Henriette, I will instead assume you are

being emphatic and waking us up to the deeper truths that you know.

	I asked 2 Traditional Chinese Medicine experts that I work with

what from their viewpoint should be done to balance the tendency of

echinacea to stimulate TNF production.  Both said that it is not suprising

that goldenseal would be a common thing to do because "energetically"

[TCMers monitor vitality/chi, not chemical actions] it would balance

echinacea somewhat and thus hopefully it would balance the TNF tendency.

They said there are plenty of other things that would also work

energetically.  Of course, in their approach, echinacea may or may not be

used, and if used it would likely be combined with a few things, for the

individual client at that particular time, then modified as the course of

healing progressed.

	I chose to say "e.g. goldenseal"  because there are other things

one can combine echinacea with.  And now, having been informed by you, I

realize that "traditional companions" with echinacea (or anything) need to

be scrutinized.

	Seeing that just mentioning goldenseal leads to an impassioned

chastisement, I reckon I will not use it as an example again on this list.

I even fear typing that sequence of letters in the rest of my reply.



>infection, goldenseal helps -only- with deep seated mucous membrane stuff.

>Even

>then you should use substitutes, as the plant in the wild, is almost gone now.

>Like, zilch left. Nada. Zero. None. Nil. Just big holes and dollar signs

>in the

>eyes of prospective diggers, looking, looking, but not finding it.

	I, for one, no longer stock goldenseal products on the clinic

shelves, based on the genocide of the species as pointed out on this list

and others in the past.  Point well taken.



>On uses of goldenseal and Ech:

>get Paul Bergner's book "The healing power of Echinacea, Goldenseal and other

>immune system herbs" and -read- it.

	OK, if you insist--you have proven yourself to be an expert worth

paying attention to.



>And may the pox take modern marketing hype. Goldenseal is becoming extinct

>-FAST- and people still use it mindlessly, endlessly, not noticing that they

>don't get better, they get worse. Dry cough, anyone?

>

>Sheesh.

	Yes, I too am tempted to use [substitutes for] profanity when

confronted with inappropriate treatments.  I am very glad for the

availability of methods alternative to allopathic drugs, yet I find it

tragic how much this leads to rape of natural resources and the misuse of

the methods leads to lack of healing, even iatrogenic pathologies.  So sad

that "natural methods" as commonly practiced can also have some of the

negatives of the allopathic drug industry.  We need *education* with the

availability.



>DON'T USE GOLDENSEAL WITH ECH, that's an incredibly inefficient use of -both-

>herbs.

>

>DON'T USE GOLDENSEAL unless you buy it from a grower you -trust-.

>

>DON'T USE GOLDENSEAL for your normal run-of-the-mill flu, at ALL.

>

>End of rant.

	Points well taken.



Ray Bayley

silwit@suba.com









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: echinacea and autoimmune

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:47:30 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



>  I asked 2 Traditional Chinese Medicine experts that I work with

> what from their viewpoint should be done to balance the tendency of

> echinacea to stimulate TNF production.  



Which question has nothing to do with Chinese healing.



>Both said that it is not suprising

> that goldenseal would be a common thing to do because "energetically"

> [TCMers monitor vitality/chi, not chemical actions] it would balance

> echinacea somewhat and thus hopefully it would balance the TNF tendency.



Which comments are utterly outside the theoretical matrix of Chinese healing,

appeals to 'chi' notwithstanding.



> They said there are plenty of other things that would also work

> energetically.  



Chinese healing does NOT design herbal formulas 'energetically.'



>Of course, in their approach, echinacea may or may not be

> used, 



Echinacea is essentially unknown in traditional Chinese healing.



>and if used it would likely be combined with a few things, for the

> individual client at that particular time, then modified as the course of

> healing progressed.



Since it is not a traditional medicinal in Chinese healing, it is not a part of

any traditional formulas. So the issues involved in its use are novel, not

traditional. Dressing such novelties up in traditional garb without using

traditional conceptual frames is deceptive. I'm sure you were just passing on

what you heard, though.



Paul







==========

To: Medicinal and Aromatic Plants list <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: echinacea and autoimmune;reporting 

From: Ray Bayley <silwit@SUBA.COM>

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:46:55 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Ray Bayley <silwit@suba.com>:



Henriette Kress posted

>On Ech and autoimmune diseases: the jury is still out, as far as I can tell.

>Some say the problems are mainly theoretical, others say they have seen

>problems

>manifest in person.

>The solution to this dilemma is rather simple: if your clients agree to being

>test subjects try it and see how it works for this particular person with that

>particular autoimmune disease. Then report back here with your consolidated

>results, after a year or three. If enough of us do this then we might just

>have

>clear evidence one way or another, for a number of different syndromes, in a

>couple years.

	The negative effects of excessive TNF in AIDS and some other

autoimmune processes is not theoretical--it is documented.  The sometimes

stimulation of TNF production by echinacea (and others) is also documented.

The question is whether echinacea will cause a pathological increase in TNF

in a given individual, given circumstances.

	Clincially, practically, it is handy to keep tendencies in mind, to

calculate the odds when considering pro vs con.  However, as Asian

Medicines and homeopathy are teaching me, as holistic health/healing ideas

are teaching Western Medicine (oh so slowly), it is safer to take into

account the individual, the particular situation.  That is why I am not

waiting for a "jury" to decide on whether echinacea is (usually?) OK with

autoimmune diseases.  And that is why if a client insists in my presence on

doing something that might increase TNF, I give them a)an emphatic listing

of negative consequences increased TNF can have, b)offer them monitorring

via TNF blood work preferentially, bioimpedance analysis 2nd best, waiting

for increased triglycerides, inflammation, and exacerbations distant 3rd

best, and c)tell them that I hope Asian Medicine (or other sophisticated

methods) balancing of the echinacea will make it all turn out OK.

	I worry that some of the more casual, less discerning readers of

this list will take "see how it works" to mean from their limited

ability/viewpoint.  Again, I state that I have seen people now in morbid

momentum from methods that "seemed OK at the time", seemed OK...for

awhile...to their "healer" and to them, whether it be the MD giving

eventually-toxic drugs or a well-meaning amateur herbologist telling

someone to take echinacea for a long time and not noting the cytokine storm

that brews and digs in before it manifests on the surface.  Hopefully

readers of this list realize the power of herbs and the ways in which the

body attempts to compensate and "go about business as usual" before the

body finally gets unbalanced, manifesting disease where we can readily see

it.  For example, I don't want to wait through the "feeling energetic"

phase of someone taking licorice root routinely, while the hypothalamic

control of the adrenal cortex gets reset causing a now-routine excessive

cortisol level, that eventually manifests as high blood pressure--blood

pressure is not the only monitor that I use when people take licorice, I

prefer the earlier diurnal salivary levels of cortisol--high blood pressure

could be a late sign of a tough-to-reverse momentum.  Similarly, I'm not go

to wait for liver cell membranes to break releasing SGOT, SGPT, etc (the

so-called blood liver function enzymes, which are really liver cell

breaking signs) into the blood when doing liver-affecting herbs or

nutraceuticals (or the MD's drugs)--that's a late sign of a liver in

trouble--instead they will be monitorred by my TCM colleagues, and

preferably we'll do true liver function tests.  Again, I state, I hope,

please, that we all catch dis-ease before it is disease and in this case

try to catch the side-effects, the cons to the therapy, before they

manifest obviously, belatedly.

	I too agree that clients should be in on the decision, giving

informed consent, and that results need to be documented as thoroughly as

possible.  We can't wait for the usual science research groups to do it for

us--not enough money and prestige in it for them.  The amount of data

available from those of us in the clinical trenches is monumental, enough

to answer many questions, so I join Henriette in saying "Then report back

here with your consolidated results, after a year or three."  And I add to

please report your consolidated results also to other venues so more can

see it.



Ray Bayley

silwit@suba.com









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Black caraway

From: Rashid Bacor <rbacor@intnet.mu>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:46:52 +0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rashid Bacor <rbacor@intnet.mu>:



Fellow list members,



Greetings to all of you.



Thanks for your responses, particularly to Lucinda and Thomas, to my

enquiry about saw palmetto.



I am in need of information about black caraway oil.  I have checked

Botany.com and has learned about caraway but no mention is made of black

caraway.  Would anyone of you know which variety of the plant is black

caraway?



Regards



Rashid Bacor









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Black caraway

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:18:56 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:46:52 +0400, Rashid Bacor <rbacor@intnet.mu> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>I am in need of information about black caraway oil.  I have checked

>Botany.com and has learned about caraway but no mention is made of black

>caraway.  Would anyone of you know which variety of the plant is black

>caraway?



Try Nigella sativa. The seed's called black seed, and it's black caraway in

German, I think.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Seizure Disorder/Aspartame/Intro

From: BlizzardCO@aol.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:17:05 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from BlizzardCO@aol.com:





> Consuming

>  nutrasweet can cause a seizure disorder. I have had mild seizures from 

> drinking

>  tons of nutrasweet.  

>  -- 

>  

>  

>         Debbie McDonald

**********************

Hello! My name is Heidi and I'm new to the list. 



About a month ago, my 83 year old grandfather was rushed to the hospital. He

was having a severe seizure. After numerous tests, the doctors could find

nothing wrong with him. (He had another seizure...not as severe...while he was

in the hospital.) One doctor referred to my grandfather's seizures as "Sundown

Seizures". I've never heard of this. This doctor claimed that the lunar cycle

could cause some people to have seizures. I do know that lately, my

grandfather has been consuming a lot of products that contain Aspartame. I did

a little research and the information I found on Aspartame was rather

frightening. 



I know this list is mostly about herbs, but after reading the posts for a few

days, I noticed that there are quite a few knowledgeable people here. Is

anyone here real familiar with Sundown Seizures or Aspartame causing seizures?

I did finally talk my grandfather into tossing out all of the items in his

home that contain Aspartame. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.



Heidi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder/Aspartame/Intro

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:39:36 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I know this list is mostly about herbs, but after reading the posts

> for a few days, I noticed that there are quite a few knowledgeable

> people here. Is anyone here real familiar with Sundown Seizures or

> Aspartame causing seizures? I did finally talk my grandfather into

> tossing out all of the items in his home that contain Aspartame.



The elderly often suffer from emptiness, and emptiness can cause seizures,

strokes, and trembling disorders.



Nutrasweet is the epitome of an empty substance, and in someone who has

emptiness, it is a danger. 



Feed your grandfather nourishing BEEF soup a couple of times daily for the

winter (add the bones to the soup too). It may be useful to give him some

Chinese white ginseng as well. You may add years to his life.



Best,



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder/Aspartame/Intro

From: BlizzardCO@aol.com

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:49:18 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from BlizzardCO@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/19/98 3:42:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



> 

>  The elderly often suffer from emptiness, and emptiness can cause seizures,

>  strokes, and trembling disorders.

>  

>  Nutrasweet is the epitome of an empty substance, and in someone who has

>  emptiness, it is a danger. 

>  

>  Feed your grandfather nourishing BEEF soup a couple of times daily for the

>  winter (add the bones to the soup too). It may be useful to give him some

>  Chinese white ginseng as well. You may add years to his life.

>  

>  Best,

>  

>  Paul

***************

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions Paul. My grandfather for the

most part eats well. He doesn't eat beef or pork and just has some poultry now

and then. He eats lots of legumes, fruits, vegetables, grains, drinks filtered

water, etc. For someone who is so health conscious, I have a very hard time

getting him to believe that the chemicals in a lot of foods are dangerous. He

thinks that because the FDA approved them, then it's okay. My grandfather

lives in another state, so it difficult to keep an eye on him. I think I

finally got my grandmother believing me about the dangers of the chemicals,

additives and preservatives in some foods. So, I'm hoping that I have finally

made some headway with my grandparents. Thanks again for the info.



Heidi





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder/Aspartame/Intro

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:00:20 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions Paul. My

> grandfather for the most part eats well. He doesn't eat beef or pork

> and just has some poultry now and then. He eats lots of legumes,

> fruits, vegetables, grains, drinks filtered water, etc. 



Fruit is not appropriate for this health pattern, and I was serious about BEEF

soup. The training of the elderly to worry about their fat intake like they

were young stress cases with coronary problems is very, very negative. BEEF can

keep the old alive in a way few other foods can. He could also benefit from

Chinese ginseng, if he refuses to eat beef. In my experience, however, it is

usually the people around the old man who refuse to let him eat beef 'for his

own good.' Left to his own design, he would probably fix himself a nice juicy

small piece of steak and cure himself handily.



>I think I finally got my grandmother believing me about the

> dangers of the chemicals, additives and preservatives in some foods.

> So, I'm hoping that I have finally made some headway with my

> grandparents. Thanks again for the info.



Chemicals or no, the issue is repairing emptiness, and it cannot easily be done

with a purist vegetarian diet such as people now consider to be 'healthy.'



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Seizure Disorder/Aspartame/Intro

From: BlizzardCO@aol.com

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:58:57 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from BlizzardCO@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/24/98 6:07:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

p_iannone@lamg.com writes:



> 

>  Fruit is not appropriate for this health pattern, and I was serious about 

> BEEF

>  soup. The training of the elderly to worry about their fat intake like they

>  were young stress cases with coronary problems is very, very negative. BEEF

> can

>  keep the old alive in a way few other foods can. He could also benefit from

>  Chinese ginseng, if he refuses to eat beef. In my experience, however, it

is

>  usually the people around the old man who refuse to let him eat beef 'for 

> his

>  own good.' Left to his own design, he would probably fix himself a nice 

> juicy

>  small piece of steak and cure himself handily.

**********************

My grandfather is a vegetarian by HIS choice. About seven years ago, he had a

mild stroke. He decided to become a vegetarian. He is healthier because of it.

If my grandfather wanted to eat beef, no one would stop him. Besides, I have

always been under the impression that a vegetarian diet is a healthier diet. I

feel so much better now that I stopped eating meat. I have added more grains,

fresh (raw) fruits and vegetables and legumes to my diet along with soy

protein shakes (Peaceful Planet) that have vitamins minerals and herbs in

them. I feel much better and my immune system has been so much stronger. 



I believe my grandfather does take ginseng...I'm not sure what kind though.

What's so special about the Chinese ginseng? My grandfather was put on

Dilantin for his seizures. Thankfully, he hasn't had anymore, but the Dilantin

makes him feel tired. Do you know if there are herbs that could give him a

boost...something that would be safe for him to take? Thanks.



Heidi





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Ezcema WHY?

From: "Mitzi Miceli" <mitzeli@prodigy.net>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:42:45 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Mitzi Miceli" <mitzeli@prodigy.net>:



Why why why not provide some insight?



The body develops dis-ease when it is

out of balance.  This happens when the

body doesn't have the proper raw materials

(nutrients) to function optimally.  Whenever there is

dis-ease, there is a digestive problem.  The

body has not absorbed what it needs, either from

it not being there in the first place or the body was

out of balance and could not absorb it.



Why herbs?  Herbs Cleanse, Nourish, and Balance.  They provide the proper

nutrients to cleanse, and nourish the body so once balanced the body may

absorb the nutrients necessary for optimum function.



In eczema cleansing is necessary, since that is what

the body is trying to do in the first place.  Then building the body, mainly

the digestive system.  Once this is done, the food allergies will not exist.

This does not mean a proper diet is not needed, just that the body is in

balance.



The toxins food additives, colorings, and in the case of adults, coffee,

drugs, and such will return the body to the dis-eased state and the

allergies will return.



Mitzi Miceli

mitzeli@prodigy.net







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: re: sinusitis

From: "Roark" <roark@imt.net>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:38:28 -0700

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Roark" <roark@imt.net>:



Oops!  I had noticed from other postings that Paul will keep us precise in

use of language.  I tend to write casually in e-mail.  Rather than calling

my sinus slosh a "solution" (notice the pun?), I should have said a

"treatment".  I make no claims to whether or not it is treating the cause,

just that it makes me feel better!  ;-)



Now here is another controversial item, and another item on which I

mis-wrote:  I mentioned adding "herbs" of choice.  I hadn't mentioned what I

use because I have little or no knowledge as basis for its use.  And in

fact, it may even be dangerous misuse, but you folks have the knowledge to

tell me if I am an idiot (and I'm sure you will feel free to do that?).  As

an asthma sufferer, various MD's have been having me inhale patent medicine

stuff all my life, so I feel comfortable with the use of eucalyptus

essential oil on the base of my nostrils to help me breathe (is this still

aromatherapy, or inhaling herbal essence, or what?  I mean, there are no

light bulbs involved!)  So sometimes I put a drop in my sinus slosh.  Am I

gonna die?  What do you experts think?  It SEEMS to make me feel better,

breathe more freely and have less sinus congestion, but I understand that

may have to do with the psychological lift of spending expensive oil on

myself!



Carol, the sinus slosher

(please have mercy on us struggling amateurs, there are other forums in

which the professionals can bash away!)







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: sinusitis

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:33:14 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Rather than calling

> my sinus slosh a "solution" (notice the pun?), I should have said a

> "treatment".  I make no claims to whether or not it is treating the cause,

> just that it makes me feel better!  ;-)



I didn't mean to bash you, but only to point out that true dryness as a

pathogenic factor cannot merely be moistened. It is not merely a yinyang

dicotomy. You have to SCATTER dryness, not just use demulcent herbs. Scattering

dryness is in some ways similar to easing an itch, plantchoicewise.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@MyList.net

Subject: Chinese herbal history and the Pen Tsau Ching

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:55:29 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Elfreem@aol.com:



It has been said that the oldest Chinese materia medica, the Pen Tsau Ching

(2800 B.C), recommended ginkgo leaves to "benefit the brain," and for asthma,

swelling of the hands and feet as a result of cold, coughs, filariasis, and

vascular

disorder of aging ...also, that aging members of the royal court used ginkgo

for senility.



Can anyone shed some light on the Pen Tsau Ching and whether the above

statements are myth or true as best we know. A nauturopath and teacher of 

medical history indicated it was myth. What credible information do we

have today that suggests that Chinese herbalism dates back 5,000 years?



Elliot Freeman RPh





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Chinese herbal history and the Pen Tsau Ching

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:32:22 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> It has been said that the oldest Chinese materia medica, the Pen Tsau Ching

> (2800 B.C), 



Shen Nong Ben Cao Jing is the oldest extant work. It dates back to the time of

Christ.



>recommended ginkgo leaves to "benefit the brain," and

> for asthma, swelling of the hands and feet as a result of cold,

> coughs, filariasis, and vascular

> disorder of aging ...also, that aging members of the royal court used ginkgo

> for senility.



Few of those claims are from Chinese healing, but rather are extrapolated from

Chinese healing to modern medical concepts; a very dubious approach at best.



> Can anyone shed some light on the Pen Tsau Ching and whether the above

> statements are myth or true as best we know. A nauturopath and teacher of 

> medical history indicated it was myth. What credible information do we

> have today that suggests that Chinese herbalism dates back 5,000 years?



Asian "Herbalism," as herbalism everywhere, dates back 10,000 years and more.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Induction vs. Deduction, was Re(2): Hypothyroidism

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:33:01 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Hi Paul

> Can you spend a moment or two comparing and contrasting the inductive vs.

> the deductive method that you mentioned in your post?  You're probably

> getting tired of the endless requests for clarification, but this seems

> really interesting, and I'm only half following you.



As I am using the terms (please, no responses from the august universities of

scientific philosophy):



Briefly, induction is a process of theorizing and gathering data to support the

theory, whereas deduction is gathering data and then theorizing on the basis of

a preexisting systematic model. Inductive reasoning would say: unless we know

the mechanism of an action, we cannot know its nature. Deductive reasoning

would say: we can see its nature, why is it occuring?



The bias of induction in modern science produces a kind of blindness. You find

doctors saying stuff like: "Diet has no relationship with acne," which is flat

out bunk in many cases. But since they arrive at this conclusion inductively,

namely by refusing all apparent correlations until proven statistically, they

cannot see that, yes, many cases of acne can be healed with some simple plants

and lifestyle improvement. 



Since such a deductive approach to health is 'unscientific' and 'old wives'

tales,' the fact that it works is always ascribed to placebo. Which is a

nonscientific conclusion, but it does supply that hit of disrespect for the

traditions of the past which Western science thrives on.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Avoiding cancer & immune system support, was R

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:54:20 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> >Chai does not traditionally contain licorice (it contains cinnamon,  

> >cardamon, cloves, black pepper, tea, milk, and honey). I presume you > 

> mean as a sweetener?

> 

> I have seen many recipes for Chai on the Net. 



I'm sure. But the traditional formula has a very balanced makeup, which might

perhaps bear using as originally conceived.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Milk Thistle

From: Magda2@aol.com

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:48:19 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Magda2@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/19/98 7:23:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com writes:



<< I noticed within a month of starting milk thistle a lot of my digertive 

 problems were reduced significantly.>>>



Hi Barabara,

    I am interested in knowing how your milk thistle is prepared for

ingestion??...........tincture,capsule,infusion?   Do you grow your own?

What dose to you take? I grew some this year but it never got to the seed

stage.  I hope it comes back next spring.  Thanks.   Marianne





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Milk Thistle

From: "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:53:03 PST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>:



>In a message dated 11/19/98 7:23:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com writes:

>

><< I noticed within a month of starting milk thistle a lot of 

><<my digestive problems were reduced significantly.

Hi Marianne,



>    I am interested in knowing how your milk thistle is prepared for

>ingestion??...........tincture,capsule,infusion?   Do you grow your 

>own?

>What dose to you take? I grew some this year but it never got to the 

>seed stage.  I hope it comes back next spring.  Thanks.   Marianne



I take low doses of all my herbs because my oncologist requires I take 

low doses.  I have been taking "NOW" Silymarin capsules.  Usually I just 

take 1 dose daily which is 300mg of silymarin according to the bottle.  

I have read it is best to take milk thistle on an empty stomach so I 

take it before I eat anything for the day.



I would like to start using the seeds, but I am not quite sure how.  Can 

you bake eat thistle seeds like sesame seeds & nuts?  (I don't really 

want to make tincture...) 



Barbara 



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Nigella/black caraway

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:41:01 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



I remember seeing nigella seeds in Indian grocery stores, sometimes called

onion seeds, a misnomer.  Indian name was kalonji.  Nigella sativa is not in

same family as caraway.  Sort of a peppery taste, but not really like black or

white pepper.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Thyroid treatments

From: James Barrett <jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:31:33 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from James Barrett <jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk>:



Good day to the List -

My sister, a vegetarian by custom rather than a determined choice,

suffers from thyroid problems, quite what, I don't know.  Medication is

not to her liking, presumably because of side-effects.  Do the members

have any suggestions?  From a previous enquiry, can you check if the

name of any herb recommended is its name in the US but not elsewhere.  I

had real problems!



TIA -

James Barrett







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thyroid treatments

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:31:18 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:31:33 -0800, James Barrett

<jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk> wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>My sister, a vegetarian by custom rather than a determined choice,

>suffers from thyroid problems, quite what, I don't know.  Medication is

>not to her liking, presumably because of side-effects.  Do the members

>have any suggestions?  



Yes. You don't even say hypo or hyper, nor do you give any other pertinent

information. Does she even know you're asking on her behalf? People who don't

come to herbalists of their own free will usually don't think that herbs are

effective ("c'mon, give me a break - you mean you really _believe_ in that

mumbo-jumbo?") and thus won't take them as directed. 



It's quite disheartening to give somebody your best shot and see them pour it

down the drain. It's a waste of good herbs, too...



So if she's really interested give her the address of a professional in her

area. In the UK you can contact the NIMH for said address.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Thyroid treatments

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:26:51 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 09:31 AM 11/20/98 GMT, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):

>

>On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:31:33 -0800, James Barrett

><jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk> wrote to herb@MyList.net:

>

>>My sister, a vegetarian by custom rather than a determined choice,

>>suffers from thyroid problems, quite what, I don't know.  Medication is

>>not to her liking, presumably because of side-effects.  Do the members

>>have any suggestions?  

>

>Yes. You don't even say hypo or hyper, nor do you give any other pertinent

>information. Does she even know you're asking on her behalf? People who don't

>come to herbalists of their own free will usually don't think that herbs are

>effective ("c'mon, give me a break - you mean you really _believe_ in that

>mumbo-jumbo?") and thus won't take them as directed. 

>

>It's quite disheartening to give somebody your best shot and see them pour it

>down the drain. It's a waste of good herbs, too...

>

>So if she's really interested give her the address of a professional in her

>area. In the UK you can contact the NIMH for said address.

>





Hi James,

If you live in /or near London a good place to visit is the NIMH Clinic in

Balham. It is near Balham Underground Station. That clinic is run by the

NIMH as training ground for final year students. I used that clinic for 6

months when I was a student. 



It is run by one or two qualified practitioners. Because it is used for

training, it is cheap. It is free though for the unemployed and the

elderly. You only have to pay for the medication(herbs). Even that is

cheaper that what you will get from the health food shops or herbal shops.



Louis

Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Thyroid treatments

From: "Graham White" <hendongreen@gn.apc.org>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:03:25 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Graham White" <hendongreen@gn.apc.org>:



<big snip>



I'm not sure if the Balham clinic is still being run by the NIMH, however

for people north of the Thames there is the:



Archway Clinic of Herbal Medicine

c/o Whittington Hospital

Highgate Hill

London N19 5NF

Tel: (0171) 288 3666



Nearest tube: Archway (Northern Line)



This is run jointly by the NIMH and Middlesex University



Similar arrangements on price etc.  If you want more info. contact them

direct and they will be happy to send you some information.



>Hi James,

>If you live in /or near London a good place to visit is the NIMH Clinic in

>Balham. It is near Balham Underground Station. That clinic is run by the

>NIMH as training ground for final year students. I used that clinic for 6

>months when I was a student.

>

>It is run by one or two qualified practitioners. Because it is used for

>training, it is cheap. It is free though for the unemployed and the

>elderly. You only have to pay for the medication(herbs). Even that is

>cheaper that what you will get from the health food shops or herbal shops.

>

>Louis

>Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.





Cheers



Graham White

----------------------



hendongreen@gn.apc.org

gw035@mdx.ac.uk











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Herbal Cough Drops

From: Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:55:17 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>:



I'm interested in making herbal cough drops. Can anyone direct me where I

could find a recipe?



Thank you so much.







Lori

ICQ #10616927





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:12:26 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 7:43 AM

Subject: Herbal Cough Drops





>To herb@MyList.net from Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>:

>

>I'm interested in making herbal cough drops. Can anyone direct me where I

>could find a recipe?

>

>Thank you so much.

>

>

>

>Lori

>ICQ #10616927

>

There's a great simple recipe in the Joy of Cooking for Horehound candy

(cough drops).  It can be adjusted for different ingredients.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: diane downs <rdowns@ix.netcom.com>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:17:13 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from diane downs <rdowns@ix.netcom.com>:



Soft Herbal Lozenges



1 tablespoon Osha Root powder

1 tablespoon Echinacea Root powder

2 tablespoons raw Honey

2 drops essential oil of Peppermint

Slippery Elm Bark powder or comfrey root powder



Preparation



1. Put the honey and essential oil in a small bowl. Add the Echinacea and Osha

root powders to the honey and stir it well.

2. Stir in slippery elm powder to the mixture a little at a time until it

reaches a consistency that can be worked with your fingers. Do not make the

mixture too dry, as the herbs will continue to absorb moisture.

3. Pinch off small pieces and roll into balls. The honey helps preserve the

herb lozenges and they will last several weeks if stored in the refrigerator

and about two days if not refrigerated.



How to use



Dissolve the herb lozenges in your mouth so that the healing properties of the

herbs are able to coat the throat. You can eat these as often as needed. Alter

the recipe to include herbs specific to other conditions as well. You can also

use tinctures. The herb lozenges are a good way to get children to take their

herbs. Try rolling them in minced dried fruit or nuts. Peppermint oil is

strong and helps to masked the flavour of strong or bitter herbs but feel free

to experiment with other flavours or omit.





i found this one,

diane



Anita Hales wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>

> To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 7:43 AM

> Subject: Herbal Cough Drops

>

> >To herb@MyList.net from Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>:

> >

> >I'm interested in making herbal cough drops. Can anyone direct me where I

> >could find a recipe?

> >

> >Thank you so much.

> >

> >

> >

> >Lori

> >ICQ #10616927

> >

> There's a great simple recipe in the Joy of Cooking for Horehound candy

> (cough drops).  It can be adjusted for different ingredients.











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon)

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:51:48 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon):



Please tell me something about Osha...I can't seem to find very much

(any!) information on it.  A book, a thought, anything!!

Thanks,

Nell



On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:17:13 -0800 diane downs <rdowns@ix.netcom.com>

writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from diane downs <rdowns@ix.netcom.com>:

>

>Soft Herbal Lozenges

>

>1 tablespoon Osha Root powder

>1 tablespoon Echinacea Root powder

>2 tablespoons raw Honey

>2 drops essential oil of Peppermint

>Slippery Elm Bark powder or comfrey root powder

>

>Preparation

>

>1. Put the honey and essential oil in a small bowl. Add the Echinacea 

>and Osha

>root powders to the honey and stir it well.

>2. Stir in slippery elm powder to the mixture a little at a time until 

>it

>reaches a consistency that can be worked with your fingers. Do not 

>make the

>mixture too dry, as the herbs will continue to absorb moisture.

>3. Pinch off small pieces and roll into balls. The honey helps 

>preserve the

>herb lozenges and they will last several weeks if stored in the 

>refrigerator

>and about two days if not refrigerated.

>

>How to use

>

>Dissolve the herb lozenges in your mouth so that the healing 

>properties of the

>herbs are able to coat the throat. You can eat these as often as 

>needed. Alter

>the recipe to include herbs specific to other conditions as well. You 

>can also

>use tinctures. The herb lozenges are a good way to get children to 

>take their

>herbs. Try rolling them in minced dried fruit or nuts. Peppermint oil 

>is

>strong and helps to masked the flavour of strong or bitter herbs but 

>feel free

>to experiment with other flavours or omit.

>

>

>i found this one,

>diane

>

>Anita Hales wrote:

>

>> To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" 

><Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>

>> To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

>> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 7:43 AM

>> Subject: Herbal Cough Drops

>>

>> >To herb@MyList.net from Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>:

>> >

>> >I'm interested in making herbal cough drops. Can anyone direct me 

>where I

>> >could find a recipe?

>> >

>> >Thank you so much.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >Lori

>> >ICQ #10616927

>> >

>> There's a great simple recipe in the Joy of Cooking for Horehound 

>candy

>> (cough drops).  It can be adjusted for different ingredients.

>

>

>

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:47:56 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:51:48 EST, oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon) wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>To herb@MyList.net from oct-moon@juno.com (October Moon):

>

>Please tell me something about Osha...I can't seem to find very much

>(any!) information on it.  A book, a thought, anything!!



Ligusticum porteri. You use the root for lung problems. Howie has a page on

oshala (Ligusticum grayi), which is quite close to osha in uses - go check that

out: http://www.teleport.com/~howieb



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:24:45 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>:



I'd be happy to give you the Herbal Cough Drop Recipe from my new herbal

cookbook.  Sorry about it's format, but I copies it right from the file.

Here it is:



HERBAL COUGH DROPS



4 Cups boiling water

1 Cup Dried Herbs of choice:

(Horehound, Hyssop, Mint, or a mix

of all three or more.)

3 Cups Brown Sugar

1/2 Tablespoon Butter



Pour boiling water over herbs and let steep 

for 5 to 10 minutes.  Strain off.  Add the 

butter and the sugars.  Bring to a boil over 

medium heat.  Cook until syrup hardens 

when a small amount is dropped into cold 

water.  Pour into a shallow buttered pan or 

mold.  Score into drops or squares before it 

hardens.  Break into pieces immediately after 

hardening.  Wrap each piece individually and 

store in an airtight container.







Respectfully submitted,

Marcia Wilson

Journeywoman Herbalist





----------

> From: Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>

> To: herb@MyList.net

> Subject: Herbal Cough Drops

> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 9:55 AM

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>:

> 

> I'm interested in making herbal cough drops. Can anyone direct me where I

> could find a recipe?

> 

> Thank you so much.

> 

> 

> 

> Lori

> ICQ #10616927





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: Magda2@aol.com

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:28:11 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Magda2@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/20/98 5:19:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

rdowns@ix.netcom.com writes:



<< 

 Soft Herbal Lozenges

 

 

 

 i found this one,

 diane>>>>

 

http://www.wildroots.com/coldflu.htm   <-----------------------    Recipe of

Millie Fodor, owner of Wildroots and owner of the Apothecary Mailing

List..................just wanted to give her credit!   :  )    Marianne





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Herbal Cough Drops

From: Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:20:36 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Lori <lorigo@gvi.net>:



Thank you all so much for the information on herbal cough drops.  I noticed

that none of the recipes specifically recommended using eucalyptus like the

commericals brands.  Is this because eucalyptus is better for clearing

sinuses rather than a cough?  Also, if I decided to include it, do you

suggest the herb or essential oil?



This list is great.  I really appreciate all of you.







Lori

ICQ #10616927





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:16:21 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:20:36 -0600, Lori <lorigo@gvi.net> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>Thank you all so much for the information on herbal cough drops.  I noticed

>that none of the recipes specifically recommended using eucalyptus like the

>commericals brands.  Is this because eucalyptus is better for clearing

>sinuses rather than a cough?  



I'd guess you didn't see Eucalyptus because we go for local plants where we can,

and leave exotics to essential oil manufacturers.



>Also, if I decided to include it, do you suggest the herb or essential oil?



That depends on what you have access to. Can you get quality essential oil (EO)?

Go for that. Can you get good Eucalyptus globulus leaves? Go for that.



Add the dried leaves as one more herb into eg. the horehound/hyssop/mint thingy,

or add the EO just before pouring same into forms.



In the osha/ech lozenge recipe leave out the peppermint EO or use one drop each;

I wouldn't add Eucalyptus leaves to that mix.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: "Chris Deming" <cdeming@earthlink.net>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:32:29 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Chris Deming" <cdeming@earthlink.net>:



>I'm interested in making herbal cough drops. Can anyone direct me where I

>could find a recipe?





 Dear Lori;

I've never had a chance to try out the recipe, (I prefer tea) but try Dian

Dincin Buchman's _Herbal Medicine: the natural way the get well and stay

well_. (nci)  Thats the only one I can get my hand on right now, but I know

there are others.



*Warning: the following message comes from a faulty memory.*

You could also try Euall Gibbins. I don't know which book he wrote it in but

I remember something about  cough drops or lozenges or cough syrup.



Shirley Deming

<cdeming@earthlink.net>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal Cough Drops

From: HERBALS@aol.com

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:15:31 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HERBALS@aol.com:



This is a recipe from another listowners web page.  I am pasting it here as I

found it there:



Harvest Cough Drops    

    

2 c. turbinado sugar    

1 c. strong herbal tea    

3/4 c. light corn syrup    

1/4 t essential oils    

    

Making the tea:    

These cough drops are a way to use some of the herbs you have grown or that   

you find growing near you. I go out and collect everything that is abundant   

and have properties that are good for cough drops (expectorant,    

anti-microbial, mucilaginous). Some herbs I have used are elecampane, thyme,  

sage, echinacea, marshmallow, angelica, elder flowers, mullein and comfrey.   

(I've also thrown in herbs from my cupboard like dried elder flowers and    

yarrow that were reaching the end of their shelf life)    

    

I collect everything and throw all the roots in a pot and simmer these for    

about 30 minutes then throw in the leafy herbs and simmer some more. I start  

with about 1 quart of water. After the herbs have simmered for 10 minutes or  

so I cool it down and strain out the herbs then put the tea back on the    

stove and simmer until the volume of liquid is reduced to 1 cup.    

    

When the tea is finished, combine it with the sugar and corn syrup in a    

saucepan. Cook, stirring constantly until the sugar is dissolved then lower   

heat and cook without stirring until the temperature reaches 300 degree.    

This takes a long time! When the mixture reaches 300 degrees remove it from   

the heat and stir in your essential oils. I used peppermint and eucalyptus.   

Most of the oil evaporates quickly so I add the oil, stir briefly then pour   

the syrup onto a baking sheet.    

    

The syrup immediately begins to harden. As soon as I can touch it and pull    

up the edges I start cutting strips and snipping them into little pieces.    

You have to work fast. I got behind on one batch and had to put chunks in a   

bag and crack them into pieces.    

    

Notes: These turn out a lot like the ricola cough drops. If you don't have    

fresh herbs I'm sure you could substitute dried herbs but I haven't tried    

out proportions yet. I want to add horehound too but I'm afraid of putting    

in too much. I would be interested in learning how to make a cough drop    

without using sugar or corn syrup if anyone has ideas.    

    

Copyright 1998 Millie Fodor    

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    

Millie    

       millie@wildroots.com    

Wildroots Herb Shop                 http://www.wildroots.com    

Apothecary Mailing List    

   http://www.wildroots.com/apothecary.html    

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    

    







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Neti Pot???

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:33:48 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: Desiree <desiree@dipl.nightowl.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 8:49 PM

Subject: Re: Neti Pot???





>To herb@MyList.net from "Desiree" <desiree@dipl.nightowl.net>:

>

>Hi....can you tell me what a neti pot is.....or is that one of the

>misspelled words?

>heheheh!

>

>Want to know what to ask for at the store.  :-)

>

>Thanks,

>Diane

>desiree@dipl.nightowl.net

>

>

>

>

A neti pot is a little "teapot" like device used for flushing sinuses.  You

can also use a child's toy teapot and get the same results.  You just need

something that will pour water into the nostril.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Neti Pot???

From: oinonenehren@macalester.edu

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:48:27 -0500 (CDT)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from oinonenehren@macalester.edu:



Its like a teapot without any handle, just a spout, about the right size

to fit in one hand, holds not quite a cup of water, mine is ceramic, which

I like, but it could be made of any number of materials. The important

part is the spout, because that makes it much easier to get the water into

your nose and not all down your chin.

-Chris

oinonenehren@macalester.edu



On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Desiree wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from "Desiree" <desiree@dipl.nightowl.net>:

> 

> Hi....can you tell me what a neti pot is.....or is that one of the

> misspelled words?

> heheheh!

> 

> Want to know what to ask for at the store.  :-)

> 

> Thanks,

> Diane

> desiree@dipl.nightowl.net

> 

> 

> 

> 







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: herbal remedies

From: STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:51:13 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>:



i am very interested in any remedies for the common cold, any type of

aches, and herbs used for relaxation.  also, if anyone could give me the

history/background of herbal medicine/remedies it would be greately

appreciated!  Thank you very much!



~Ashley







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: herbal remedies

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:45:53 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





>i am very interested in any remedies for the common cold, any type of

>aches, and herbs used for relaxation.  also, if anyone could give me the

>history/background of herbal medicine/remedies it would be greately

>appreciated!  Thank you very much!

>

>~Ashley

>

>

My my, you don't ask for much do you.  One thing you need to be sure of is

that you do indeed have a "cold".  Diagnosis is important.  There are many

serious diseases that start out with symptoms of a "cold".  My favorite for

the good old winter cold is equal parts Yarrow, Eupatorium perf. (Boneset),

and Peppermint and maybe a little licorice root if the throat is tickly.

Make a big pot of it and drink lots of it hot.  Use a heaping tbsp per cup

hot water.  Avoid drafts, cold and don't drink cold liquids or eat cold

foods while  treating.  Eat lots of garlic laced chicken soup.  It has

always worked for me and I've never known it to fail for anybody.  You can

knock out many symptoms overnight but continue herbs for a couple weeks.  It

can help prevent colds too if you are in a situation that might make you

vulnerable.

As to the history of herbs as medicine.  There has been herbal medicine as

long as there have been people.  More has been lost than all the books in

the world could contain.  We have few old texts.  It is a lifetime search to

know the history.







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: herbal cold remedies

From: "aanda" <aanda@ptd.net>

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:25:13 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "aanda" <aanda@ptd.net>:



Here is information I received on another list from a very wise man...I hope

it helps your cold. Ak

Ginger (fresh) is a shoe-in.  Get about 1/4 lb (it's a little pricey).

Cut into about 1 inch chuncks and freeze.  At the first sign of

cold/flu, grab one of the chunks and grate it (should end up with

about 1/2 tsp - NOT MORE) - btw - leave skin on.  Boil some water,

shut off heat and add ginger - cover so that the volatile oils/aromas

don't escape.  Let steep for about 15 mins.  This makes a nice sipping

tea - sip several cups all day long.

This is also a great tea for morning sickness (ya never know....).



-----Original Message-----

From: STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 3:51 PM

Subject: herbal remedies





>To herb@MyList.net from STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH

<astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>:

>

>i am very interested in any remedies for the common cold, any type of

>aches, and herbs used for relaxation.  also, if anyone could give me the

>history/background of herbal medicine/remedies it would be greately

>appreciated!  Thank you very much!

>

>~Ashley

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Compound tincture, was Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 06:52:39 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



>What I really have is a good learning experience under my belt!  I will toss the defective

>tincture. Thanks for the advice!

>

>I am still intrigued with the idea of making an infusion with the strained herb (after

>making a tincture) so as to extract whatever minerals may be left.  Perhaps my methods were

>faulty.  Any advice on how to have better luck?  Or is this just a pipe dream?



Tincture your herb by maceration (this won't work half as well with

percolation). Once you've strained it (don't use a press either) put your marc

(= what's left of your herb) into a pot and cover with water. Bring to a slow

boil, leave on low heat for a while, strain. 

How much tinct did you have? 10 parts, by volume? Right. Now boil your decoction

down to 1 part, slowly, on a very low heat. A waterbath is actually best for

this.



Once you're down to 1 part combine the two.



Now you have a BritMed herbalist compound tincture.



Oh yes, if you have a tincture extracted at a certain alcohol %, and add more

alcohol or more water to this later, you will end up with snow. That's

constituents not soluble in either higher or lower alcohol %. These will usually

combine with each other into something not usable by humans. A waste of good

constituents... 



Moral of the story: don't dilute your stored tincture by adding more water, and

don't try to make it "stronger" by adding more alcohol. You should have done

that -before- straining the herb out...



Henriette

 

--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: sunsite.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: herbal wraps

From: rkb5795 <rkb5795@earthlink.net>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:31:24 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from rkb5795 <rkb5795@earthlink.net>:



Where can I get quality information about herbal wraps?



Randy





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: yeast vs. mold

From: Tsugu/karyn <tfkg@pacbell.net>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:18:58 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Tsugu/karyn <tfkg@pacbell.net>:







Maureen Hicks wrote:



> Do you all want to explain to me the differences between "yeast" & "mold?" I

> am a long time sufferer of a yeast over growth in my body called

> candidiasis. In all the research I have done on the disease, I've learned

> yeast IS a mold.



Yeast is a very simple fungus that is either unicellular or made up of only a

few cells.  It does not have a feeding body like other fungi.  Hope this helps.

karyn







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: yeast vs. mold

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:47:04 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<It does not have a feeding body like other fungi.  >>



Ok, what do you mean by a feeding body? And aren't all fungi cosindered

molds? What do you consider a mold then? I have time & time again seen yeast

being classified as a mold.

Thanks,

Maureen









==========

To: herb@MyList.net, root-l@teleport.com

Subject: Echinacea contraindicated for diabetes?

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:19:07 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



I was told that one of the women's magazines recently wrote that

echinacea was contraindicated for sufferers of type 2 diabetes.  Does

anyone know the thinking behind this contraindication and its accuracy. 

I've only seen the recommendation that injectable forms, which are not

available in the US, be avoided and had assumed that injection rather

than echinacea was the culprit.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:milk thistle

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:36:10 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Barbara,



Milk thistle seeds have a sort of hard shell, so they would probably not be

good for baking.  I had a pound of milk thistle seeds and prepared them by

grinding in a hand-cranked grain grinder, not all at once.



I also grind flax seeds and sesame seeds to eat raw, have baked sesame seeds,

putting in a slightly thick layer in a baking pan, turning the oven to 275 F,

and baking about 22 minutes.  This achieves a lighter roast than commercially

roasted sesame seeds.  If I turn oven to 325 F, time is 18 minutes.  I don't

roast filberts, almonds, walnuts (English or black), butternuts, hickory nuts

or pecans; take these nuts better raw.



You say your oncologist requires that you take low doses of herbs.  That makes

me wonder what determines if a plant material is considered a herb as opposed

to a food that you could take in larger quantity.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:milk thistle

From: "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:07:41 PST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Barbara Kelley" <amberbarbaraherb@hotmail.com>:



Thanks Thomas, for info. on how to use milk thistle seeds.  Being the 

creative cooking type I started thinking of creating a new, unusual milk 

thistle seed paste, like tahini & hummus or peanut butter, after reading 

your post.  



>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



>You say your oncologist requires that you take low doses of herbs.  

>That makes me wonder what determines if a plant material is >considered 

a herb as opposed to a food that you could take in larger >quantity.



I have started to view herbs more as food stuffs than medicines myself, 

as a result of my oncologists requests.  In my case this may be more 

important because of the damage that may have been done to my internal 

organs as a result of Taxol-carboplatin chemo.  I thought Dr. Smith (my 

female oncologist) was an alright doctor when she was supportive of my 

use of herbs.  She knows a whole lot more about chemistry than I do so I 

will abide by her direction in my herbal use.  But still, she does not 

really know how to answer specific questions about specific herbs and 

what herbs should not be mixed with what medications. There is some 

information available about interactions between foods & drugs, and less 

available info about mixing herbs & drugs... 



I guess I need to spend several months observing how all the herbs I 

take causes my body to react.  I am very careful though.  I have seen 

too much in the way of drugs in my life.  I would hate to poison myself.  

I am looking for an prof. ND or herbalist too.  So far, I have not found 

one who wanted to take my case.  When I have *another doctor* 

(herbalist) who can tell me about mixing herbs with confidence maybe I 

can let them to me which herbs are safe to take in higher doses. 



I have run into other doctors who critisized me harshly for even using 

herbs.  Usually the MDs know little about how herbs really work.  There 

is so little research available, if you talk with doctors.  It makes me 

want to go back to school & marry scientific knowlege with herbal 

information.  Plus I know where I can find lot's of information on 

herbs.  But I do not how well the info available on the Net stands up in 

the scientific peer review process.



I am just a little ole mechanical engineer.  But really I am a 

frustrated biologist.  I was on my way to vet school, with a BSME, when 

I became sick.  Now I do not want to perform surgery.  Formally studying 

herbalism, nutrition, botany & bio. chem.  may help me answer my own 

questions about herbal toxicities & healing. I may end up getting a 

masters degree or spend the rest of my life learning about herbs & 

nutrition.  I am not sure how serious or formal I want to be, or if I 

really want to go back to the university.





Barbara



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:milk thistle

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:08:14 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Barbara,



I am not really well-informed on milk thistle seeds, but have never read

anything about their being toxic.



I suppose black cohosh and blue cohosh, not related despite their name, would be

considered as herbs rather than food.  But dandelion, chickweed and plantago

can be used as food, cooked or raw, even if one is ignorant about herbal

medicine.  John Lust, in The Herb Book, lists some common fruits and vegetables

as "herbs": apple, carrot, celery, cucumber, fig, radish, turnip, onion.  I

suppose such herbs as oat straw and alfalfa could be used in large doses in the

absence of a specific contraindication, but some other herbs can have adverse

effects in overdose.



NDs are scarce; I don't really know how to find a good herbalist.



I have heard about the Ohio River valley being bad for allergies.  Even moving

to the desert is not necessarily an escape, as people moving there bring their

beloved plants and keep the plants watered.  Is the allergy-culprit cedar, which

is really a juniper, the same Juniperus communis whose berries are used as

herb/spice?



More delicate plants would need protection from the hot summer sun of Austin TX.

Rain is not assured: in one recent summer I heard Austin broke its record of 59

consecutive precipitation-free days.  I figured there must have been some brown

lawns.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: milk thistle

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:59:44 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I have run into other doctors who critisized me harshly for even using 

> herbs.  Usually the MDs know little about how herbs really work.



Well, that is for sure. But maybe I missed a description of your actual

complaints (as opposed to your diagnoses).



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Infant Constipation

From: Rainbow Press <rainbowpress@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 07:08:05 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rainbow Press <rainbowpress@mindspring.com>:



Maybe some kind soul can help with this problem...a young neighbor just

came to my door with her month old infant son. He is not breast fed & she

say's he stay's constipated! Her pediatrician is not seemingly worried

about this situation. She's been told to use infant supositories & they've

changed his formula, & also diluted apple juice, nothing is helping!

...is there a herbal remedy that would be mild enough for an infant?

You may reply to me directly or direct me to another list if not

appropriate for this group.

Thank you sincerely for any sugestions, Darcy 0:)



mailto:angelwings@mindspring.com







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Infant Constipation

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:25:03 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:









>To herb@MyList.net from Rainbow Press <rainbowpress@mindspring.com>:

>

>Maybe some kind soul can help with this problem...a young neighbor just

>came to my door with her month old infant son. He is not breast fed & she

>say's he stay's constipated! Her pediatrician is not seemingly worried

>about this situation. She's been told to use infant supositories & they've

>changed his formula, & also diluted apple juice, nothing is helping!

>...is there a herbal remedy that would be mild enough for an infant?

>You may reply to me directly or direct me to another list if not

>appropriate for this group.

>Thank you sincerely for any sugestions, Darcy 0:)

>

>mailto:angelwings@mindspring.com

>

I bet he's being given soy formulas.  Here's a great example of why a person

should breastfeed their children.  There's a few simple remedies.  My

grandma always said give them a spoonful of molasses.  (It works).  Make

sure he's getting enough water.  Too bad the doctor's making this poor child

reliant on external relief and dependence on suppositories.  Try a different

formula, perhaps one that does not include soy.  I'd also give him some mild

fennel, chamomile, catnip infusion to help with the gas and relax the child.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Infant Constipation

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:22:53 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 07:08 AM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Rainbow Press <rainbowpress@mindspring.com>:

>

>Maybe some kind soul can help with this problem...a young neighbor just

>came to my door with her month old infant son. He is not breast fed & she

>say's he stay's constipated! Her pediatrician is not seemingly worried

>about this situation. She's been told to use infant supositories & they've

>changed his formula, & also diluted apple juice, nothing is helping!

>...is there a herbal remedy that would be mild enough for an infant?

>You may reply to me directly or direct me to another list if not

>appropriate for this group.

>Thank you sincerely for any sugestions, Darcy 0:)

>

>mailto:angelwings@mindspring.com

>

>



One of my twin boys had the same problem. They are now a year old. I have

been told by the pediatrician to give suppositries.



This is what I did. I give them dilute chamomile tea at night. Sometimes I

add it to their apple juice. As he is now a year old from time to time I

give him dilute prune juice. Prunes contain a laxative called isatin which

slowly puts tone into sluggish smooth muscles. Apart from that prunes have

Viamin A and D, potassium, phosphorus and some other minerals. I cannot

remember them off hand.

He has started eating meals so I try to give him vegetables and fruits. The

problem has been solved now but I had a hard time when he was months old.

Sometimes I used water enema and my finger to help him out. At the time the

faeces gets really hard and he finds it too difficult evacuate it.



Chamomile is the magic herb here.



Bless him



Louis





Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Infant Constipation

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:13:38 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



Forgot to mention fresh pressed carrot juice. I have observed that anytime

he drinks 2 ounces of that, he did not constipate.



I hope this helps.

Louis

Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Infant Constipation

From: Rosie <natural@wt.net>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:14:21 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Rosie <natural@wt.net>:



Darcy:  in addition to the other responses you have had, do you know if the

infant is being fed cows milk?  If so:



 New England Journal of Medicine has an article and an

editorial about dairy allergy and its connection to conspipation in

infancy and early childhood. In the trial, the great majority of

children referred to a gastroenterologist for chronic constipation

unresponsive to laxatives had a proven dairy allergy. I wonder how many

of those responsive to laxatives also had the allergy, but it was

overridden by the laxatives.



Here's the link.



http://www.nejm.org/content/1998/0339/0016/1100.asp



Rosie

natural@wt.net







> To herb@MyList.net from Rainbow Press <rainbowpress@mindspring.com>:

>

> Maybe some kind soul can help with this problem...a young neighbor just

> came to my door with her month old infant son. He is not breast fed & she

> say's he stay's constipated! Her pediatrician is not seemingly worried

> about this situation. She's been told to use infant supositories & they've

> changed his formula, & also diluted apple juice, nothing is helping!

> ...is there a herbal remedy that would be mild enough for an infant?

> You may reply to me directly or direct me to another list if not

> appropriate for this group.

> Thank you sincerely for any sugestions, Darcy 0:)

>

> mailto:angelwings@mindspring.com







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Infant Constipation

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:59:35 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Maybe some kind soul can help with this problem...a young neighbor just

> came to my door with her month old infant son. He is not breast fed & she

> say's he stay's constipated! Her pediatrician is not seemingly worried

> about this situation. She's been told to use infant supositories & they've

> changed his formula, & also diluted apple juice, nothing is helping!



Get a bottle of 'Babydophilus' from the health food store. That's probably a

bacteria deficiency.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Infant Constipation

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:00:55 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Forgot to mention fresh pressed carrot juice. I have observed that anytime

> he drinks 2 ounces of that, he did not constipate.



Undilute carrot juice is WAY too sweet for an infant, imo.



Paul





==========

To: HERB@MyList.net

Subject: Herbal History Trivia Game 8

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:33:22 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Elfreem@aol.com:



Herbal History Trivia Game 8: The Physio Medicalists Rooted In Thomsonianism:



One of the most interesting stories of the 19th century involves a man named

Samuel Thompson, who came to be known as the "Steam and Puke" doctor, literally

changed the way medicine was practiced in the United States (as pointed out in

Herbal History Trivia Game 7). 

Thomson's rigid and autocratic approach fell out of favor by the mid 1830's. 

Some of his followers had begun to realize the need for creating a formal

training (i.e. a chartered college), system to teach the patented system of

medicine. The dissenters disagreed with Thomson's insistence that the method

only be taught to people willing to pay $20.00. It became apparent that the

uneducated healer could no longer compete with the educated professionals being

turned out by the other more organized healing schools (the Eclectic as an

example). A few followers began to set up infirmaries, a practice which Thomson

regarded as the next wave of medical monopoly. 



In 1836, one follower, Alva Curtis, successfully split from Thomson by

establishing the Botanico Medical College and Infirmary. The school offered 

training in the science of Botany, Lectures on Natural Philosophy and Chemistry,

Midwifery, and the forms of disease peculiar to women and children.

Anatomy, Physiology and Surgery. In 1839, Curtis founded the Independent 

Thomsonian Botanic Society. The society encouraged didactic education very 

similar to the regular doctors of the day. 



As the Independent Thomsonians continued their departure from the autocratic, 

structure of Samuel Thomson, they eventually became known as the Physio

Medicalists. Curtis' College became a chartered school called the Physiopathic

Medical College of Ohio. The school dedicated itself to "innocent medicine". 

Around 1860 William H. Cook became the dean of faculty and chair of materia 

medica. Cook organized the expanded materia medica in the 1869 materia medica

The Physio Medical Dispensatory. Cook, a convert from eclecticism, encouraged

the faculty to "enlarge the view and capacity of physio-medical science"

(Haller, page 40). 



Interestingly enough, the Physio=96medicalists took great pride that they had

developed a materia medica which was completely non=96toxic. The Physio-

Medicalists with the Eclectics need to be credited with bringing American herbs

into the professional prescribing environment. An environment which had been

previously dominated by minerals and old world therapies. 



The Physio Medical Dispensatory contains over 140 plants. The emphasis of the

physio-medical system of treatment was by the application of four different 

types of herbs: Relaxants, Stimulants, Tonics, Bitters. What was one of the 

most popular Physio Medical herbs representing a stimulant? 



(answer will be posted within 2-3 days)



References:



Books

Cook, William S., Physio=96Medical Dispensaatory. Sandy: Eclectic Medical

Publications, 1869.

Haller, Jr., John S., Kindly Medicine. Kent: Kent State University Press, 1997.



Journals

Eclectic Medical Journal Reprints=971849=961937. Sandy: Eclectic Medical

Publications.



Game 8 of the herbal trivia series was prepared by Kathryn Rosson - Eclectic

Medical Publications, with a few additions by Elliot Freeman RPh - Herb 

Nutrition Newsletter







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal History Trivia Game 8

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:47:30 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Lobelia was the premier puking stimulant that Thompson promulgated.  And

the sharp peppery taste from such a mild-looking,nondescript plant will

stick with you forever (or at least for a half hour after tasting it!)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: RE: Herbal History Trivia Game 8

From: "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:22:41 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>:



> -----Original Message-----

> From:	creationsgarden@juno.com [SMTP:creationsgarden@juno.com]

> 

> Lobelia was the premier puking stimulant....

> 

> Karen Vaughan

> CreationsGarden@juno.com

> ***************************************

	I thought Lobelia was taken to REDUCE nausea and vomiting?  Please

set me straight on Lobelia.

	---Thank you.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Herbal History Trivia Game 8

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:19:37 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:





>The Physio Medical Dispensatory contains over 140 plants. The emphasis of the

>physio-medical system of treatment was by the application of four different 

>types of herbs: Relaxants, Stimulants, Tonics, Bitters. What was one of the 

>most popular Physio Medical herbs representing a stimulant? 

>



J.M. Thurston, the last and most important contributor to the original

American school of physiomedicalism stressed the paramount importance of

the autonomic nervous system in terms of vaso-motor regulation of visceral

functions.



According to Thurston:



General stimulants = Capsicum, Xanthoxylum

Cerebrospinal stimulants:

  Cerebral=Cola

  Spinal=Virburnum opulus

Gangionic stimulants:

  Cardiac=Eupatorium aromaticum

  Pulmonary=Populus candicans

  Alimentary=Chelone

  Hepatic=Euonymus

  Renal=Barosma

Muscular stimulants:

  Voluntary=Fraxinus americanus

  Involuntary=Myrica



To him Lobelia is a Systemic relaxant.



Is your question pre-Thurston?



Louis





Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: HERB@MyList.net

Subject: re: Herbal History Trivia Game 8

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:26:10 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Elfreem@aol.com:



Herbal History Trivia Game 8: The Physio Medicalists Rooted In 

Thomsonianism:



>One of the most interesting stories of the 19th century involves a man

>named Samuel Thomson, who came to be known as the "Steam and

>Puke" doctor and literally changed the way medicine was practiced in the

>United States (as pointed out in Herbal History Trivia Game 7).

>Thomson's rigid and autocratic approach fell out of favor by the mid 1830's. 

>Some of his followers had begun to realize the need for creating a formal 

>training (i.e. a chartered college), system to teach the patented system 

>of medicine. The dissenters disagreed with Thomson's insistence that the 

>method only be taught to people willing to pay $20.00. It became 

>apparent that the uneducated healer could no longer compete with the 

>educated professionals being turned out by the other more organized 

>healing schools (the Eclectic as an example). A few followers began to 

>set up infirmaries, a practice which Thomson regarded as the next wave 

>of medical monopoly. 



>In 1836, one follower, Alva Curtis, successfully split from Thomson by 

>establishing the Botanico Medical College and Infirmary. The school offered 

>training in the science of Botany, Lectures on Natural Philosophy and 

>Chemistry, Midwifery, and the forms of disease peculiar to women and

>children. Anatomy, Physiology and Surgery. In 1839, Curtis founded the

>Independent Thomsonian Botanic Society. The society encouraged didactic

>education very similar to the regular doctors of the day. 

>

>As the Independent Thomsonians continued their departure from the 

>autocratic, structure of Samuel Thomson, they eventually became known as 

>the Physio Medicalists. Curtis' College became a chartered school called 

>the Physiopathic Medical College of Ohio. The school dedicated itself to

>"innocent medicine". 

>

>Around 1860 William H. Cook became the dean of faculty and chair of 

> materia medica. Cook organized the expanded materia medica in the 1869 

>The Physio Medical Dispensatory. Cook, a convert from eclecticism,

>encouraged the faculty to "enlarge the view and capacity of physio-medical 

>science" (Haller, page 40). 

>

>Interestingly enough, the Physio-medicalists took great pride that they had 

>developed a materia medica which was completely non-toxic. The Physio-

>Medicalists with the Eclectics need to be credited with bringing American 

>herbs into the professional prescribing environment. An environment which 

>had been previously dominated by minerals and old world therapies. 



>The Physio Medical Dispensatory contains over 140 plants. The emphasis of 

>the physio-medical system of treatment was by the application of four

>different types of herbs: Relaxants, Stimulants, Tonics, Bitters. What was

>one of the most popular Physio Medical herbs representing a stimulant? 





Answer: Cayenne 



(lobelia was considered a relaxant and will be discussed in an upcoming

history 

trivia game --ef)



The following are partial Properties and Uses of cayenne taken from 

Cook's Physio Medical Dispensatory: 



Capsicum annuum, Cayenne -- Properties and Uses.-- "The fruit is one of the 

purest of all known stimulants, of great intensity, very permanent in its

action, spreading through the system rather slowly, but ultimately reaching

every organ of the frame. It creates a sensation of warmth, and finally of

biting pungency, in the mouth, stomach, skin, or other part to which it is 

it is directly applied. When used in a considerable dose, it excites the

stomach strongly, yet is diffused so slowly that for a time it disturbs the

equilibrium of circulation and nervous action between the stomach and the

adjacent parts; and hence large quantities may be followed, for a short 

time, by hiccough, and even by a cramping pain in the stomach. It acts 

mainly upon the circulation, but also upon the nervous structures. It first

shows its power upon the heart and the large and central blood vessels; but

finally traverses from the center to the very capillaries. It thus slowly

gives increased tone to the circulation not so materially increasing the

frequency of the pulse, as giving power to each pulsation. In cases where 

the pulse is enfeebled and very much hurried from putrescent tendencies, 

as in typhus, malignant scarlatina, phlegmonous erysipelas, gangrenous 

wounds, threatened absorption of pus, etc., capsicum may be used in full

quantities, and will be followed by diminished frequency but greater 

firmness of the arterial action." 



Capsicum was mentioned by the physician accompanying Columbus on his 

second voyage to America. It was prescribed for a variety of ailments among 

the Mayas, such as earache, as well as by Peruvian Indians. Red pepper 

juice was used by Brazilian Indians reportedly to cure eye pains. Capsicum 

was official in the USP from 1820 to 1942 and in the NF from 1942 to 1965. 

Cayenne is listed in the Merck Manual as an official carminative and stomach

stimulant. 



A historical anecdote: In 1870, there was a lumberjack named James McCann 

who had both feet frozen above his ankles and brought to a Dr. Meeks for

amputation. Instead of the procedure, Meeks gave cayenne pepper to see 

what might happen. "It increased the warmth and power of action of his blood 

to such a degree that it gave him pain and misery in his legs. He laid down 

on his back and elevated his feet up against the wall for 3 or 4 days and then

he could sit up in a chair. The frozen flesh would rot and drop down to the

floor, 

just like buckwheat batter. The new flesh would form as fast as the dead flesh

would get out of the way. That was all the medical treatment he had. The 

16th day after I gave him the first dose of pepper, he walked nine miles 

from Parowan to Red Creek and back." (Haller, 1997)



Various anecdotal reports indicate cayenne is good for circulation, congestive

heart failure, hemorrhoids, excessive bleeding, arthritis, and in as an eye

wash

usually in combination with other herbal extracts.



Dr. John Christoper was one of America's renowned herbalists. His advice 

for treating a heart attack: "Prepare one teaspoon of cayenne in one cup of

hot water. Steep until cool enough to drink without scalding. Prop up the

patient and pour the cayenne tea down the patient's throat. The heart attack

will stop immediately." Dr. Christopher also used cayenne directly on an open 

wound to stop bleeding.



One of Christopher's students, a pharmacist, used cayenne in a successful

treatment of a heart attack.  Summarizing the experience he reported, the 

man was "beyond blue, he was late grey, cold, and did look dead. I saw no

breathing and felt no pulse." After 12 dropperfuls of cayenne tincture, 

"his face turned red - before I even started CPR, and we revived him in

seconds."





Game 8 of the herbal trivia series was prepared by Kathryn Rosson - Eclectic

Medical Publications and Elliot Freeman RPh - Herb Nutrition Newsletter



(to receive a copy of the Herb Nutrition Newsletter send a message to

Elfreem@aol.com with 'SEND HERB NUTRITION NEWSLETTER" in the 

subject)





References:



Books

Cook, William S., Physio Medical Dispensaatory. Sandy: Eclectic Medical

Publications, 1869.

Haller, Jr., John S., Kindly Medicine. Kent: Kent State University Press,

1997.

Biser S. Curing with Cayenne. University of Natural Healing, 1997.



Journals

Eclectic Medical Journal Reprints 1849 1937. Sandy: Eclectic Medical

Publications.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Smoke smell...Yuck...results!

From: Seylerl@aol.com

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:43:50 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Seylerl@aol.com:



Thank you, Oh thank you to all that gave me "smoke free herbal advice".



Extremist that I am, I put all the suggestions to use... the white vinegar,

coffee, sage and citrus cleansers.... I don't know persay which one to give

the crowd like thundering applause to.... all I know is my yucky smoke filled

room, (that made me ill), now smells like an amazing gourmet type

deli....mmmmm.  Makes me hungry.  No more YUCKY smoke smell.



Thanks from the heart for all your suggestions.... they certainly made a very

positive difference in my life!



A $million$ thanks,

Lisa





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Ginko and St. Johnswart

From: "WKHERBS" <WKHERBS@prodigy.net>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:17:45 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "WKHERBS" <WKHERBS@prodigy.net>:



Is it alright to take Ginko and St. Johnswort together?

Thanks

  "Bob Scott





==========

To: HERB@MyList.net

Subject: re: infant constipation

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:11:41 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Elfreem@aol.com:



>>

Maybe some kind soul can help with this problem...a young neighbor just

came to my door with her month old infant son. He is not breast fed & she

say's he stay's constipated! Her pediatrician is not seemingly worried

about this situation. She's been told to use infant supositories & they've

changed his formula, & also diluted apple juice, nothing is helping!

...is there a herbal remedy that would be mild enough for an infant?

You may reply to me directly or direct me to another list if not

appropriate for this group.

Thank you sincerely for any sugestions, Darcy 0:)

>>



Find out if the mother has been giving the infant milk (cows milk) from the

store

..and if she has, tell her to stop immediately. An article in New England

Medical

Journal, October 15, 1998, entitled "Intolerance of Cow's Milk and Chronic

Constipation" described a study involving 65 children (11-72 months) with

chronic constipation who were randomized to receive cow's milk or soy milk

and then crossed over (the group that received one type of milk would

then receive the other).  Forty-four children (68%) responded while receiving

soy milk. In each case, the reponse was confirmed with rechallenge. Children

who responded to soy milk were more likely to have coexistent rhinitis, 

dermatitis, or bronchospasm than those who did not respond to soy milk.

They were also more likely to have anal fissures and erythema or edema 

at baseline, evidence of inflammation of rectal mucosa, and signs of

hypersensitivity, such as specific IgE antibodies to cow's milk.



Perhaps this information may be of help. BTW, I'm not an advocate of soy 

milk. Human milk is the gold standard and nothing comes close to its 

nutritional value.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh, Managing Editor

Herb Nutrition Newsletter & Midwest Shared Newsletter 

Member, Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: re: infant constipation

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:00:07 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



At 12:11 PM 11/23/98 EST, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Elfreem@aol.com:

>

>>>

>Maybe some kind soul can help with this problem...a young neighbor just

>came to my door with her month old infant son. He is not breast fed & she

SNIP

>appropriate for this group.

>Thank you sincerely for any sugestions, Darcy 0:)

>>>

>

>Find out if the mother has been giving the infant milk (cows milk) from the

>store

>..and if she has, tell her to stop immediately. An article in New England

>Medical

>Journal, October 15, 1998, entitled "Intolerance of Cow's Milk and Chronic

>Constipation" described a study involving 65 children  (Big SNIP) evidence

of inflammation of rectal mucosa, and signs of

>hypersensitivity, such as specific IgE antibodies to cow's milk.

>

>Perhaps this information may be of help. BTW, I'm not an advocate of soy 

>milk. Human milk is the gold standard and nothing comes close to its 

>nutritional value.

>

>Regards,

>

>Elliot Freeman RPh, Managing Editor



I would agree with the stopping of cow's milk but would also suggest Goat's

milk before going the soy route.



Scott Carlton

carlton@mint.net



Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.   ICQ # 23983182.  IM nick = naturepho







==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: just a question

From: STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:28:09 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>:



what is lobelia?

















==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: relaxation

From: STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:29:12 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>:



are there any herbs that can help aid in relaxation?  if so, what are they

and where can you get them?

thanks,

ashley







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: relaxation

From: Kat11559@aol.com

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:34:58 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:



There is a wonderful new beverage out on the market called peaceful Kava, it

is a drink that you mix from a powder, works great and taste good too!  



Kathrine





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: relaxation

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:11:56 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>

To: 'herb@MyList.net' <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 9:29 AM

Subject: relaxation





>To herb@MyList.net from STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH

<astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>:

>

>are there any herbs that can help aid in relaxation?  if so, what are they

>and where can you get them?

>thanks,

>ashley

>

>

There are plenty of herbs that help.  It depends on what you need relaxation

for.  You need to supply more information before a recommendation can be

given.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: relaxation

From: STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:30:27 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>:



are there any herbs for stress relief~~relaxation?  also, what about herbs

for stomach aches.  if anyone could tell me where to find these herbs and

tell me specifically what they do, it would be greatly appreciated!



thanks again,

ashley







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: relaxation

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:36:03 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH <astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 9:31 PM

Subject: relaxation





>To herb@MyList.net from STOCKMANN ASHLEY ELIZABETH

<astock@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>:

>

>are there any herbs for stress relief~~relaxation?  also, what about herbs

>for stomach aches.  if anyone could tell me where to find these herbs and

>tell me specifically what they do, it would be greatly appreciated!

>

>thanks again,

>ashley

>

>

Perhaps the stomach aches are stress related????  These symptoms are always

pointing to other problems.  More information would be good before going on

any treatments.  In the meantime, get some Swedish Bitters and start taking

them daily to help digestion.  You may need to take care of elimination too,

for starters I'd use some psyllium.  Examine your lifestyle and attitudes to

help eliminate stresses.  Look into Tai Chi for help.  Eliminate all

stimulants and drugs including coffee, black tea, green tea, ephedra,

anything containing caffeine, chemical additives in food, dyes, get adequate

rest, laugh at something every hour.  Drink Chamomile and catnip tea. More

information about your system would be helpful.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lobelia

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:33:47 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Lobelia inflata is taken as an antispasmodic and as an emetic herb.  One

way it works (in larger doses) is to make you throw up, after which you

feel profoundly relaxed.  Asthmatics often use it.



However it is not necessary to take an emetic dose to have an

antispasmodic response.  And lobelia is often added to formulas to

potentiate them because of its sharp peppery properties.



You may be thinking of homeopathic lobelia inflata which is given to stop

nausea, dyspspsia and asthma in cases with the appropriate rubrics.  Even

homeopathically it can cure by causing vomitting.



Dosage is everything with this herb!

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:22:41 -0600 "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>

writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>:

>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From:	creationsgarden@juno.com 

>[SMTP:creationsgarden@juno.com]

>> 

>> Lobelia was the premier puking stimulant....

>> 

>> Karen Vaughan

>> CreationsGarden@juno.com

>> ***************************************

>	I thought Lobelia was taken to REDUCE nausea and vomiting?  

>Please

>set me straight on Lobelia.

>	---Thank you.

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Lobelia

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:57:57 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:22:41 -0600, "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu> wrote to

"'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>:



>> Lobelia was the premier puking stimulant....



>I thought Lobelia was taken to REDUCE nausea and vomiting?  Please

>set me straight on Lobelia.



It's a powerful emetic if taken in large doses.



There's some emetics that induce a reflex, ie. you take one hefty dose, puke,

and after that all it takes is a couple drops for reverse peristalsis to set in.

Unfortunately I don't remember if Lobelia is one of these. Anybody?



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Contract Farmer seeks Buyer/Broker

From: "Philip Small" <psmall@wolfenet.com>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:55:41 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Philip Small" <psmall@wolfenet.com>:



<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>Greetings Herb List:<FontFamily><param>Times New Roman</param><bigger> 





<FontFamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I have a friend with irrigated cropland (grass hay) in the Wenas Valley. 



2000' elevation.  Between Ellensburg, Yakima and Mt Rainier in 

Washington State.  NO pesticides ever used. 





He has started a few acres of Echinacea.  Some Golden Seal.  Is now 

looking for a broker/buyer and guidance to convert more hay ground to 

medicinal herbs.   Can any of you folks help him?





We are available Dec 7,8 to drive to any farm/broker locations in Oregon 

and Washington to meet.  Heard there were maybe some potential folks to 

contact in Grants Pass area, but have not been able to confirm.





Thanks in advance.





Phil Small 509-452-5450 





------------- 







<nofill>

Philip Small

Land Profile Inc.

member Nat'l Soc. Consulting Soil Scientists

http://www.nscss.org/





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Contract Farmer seeks Buyer/Broker

From: Kat11559@aol.com

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:38:59 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Kat11559@aol.com:



Dear Phil:



Has your friend prepared a package on his information?



Kathrine Hill 214-520-0077





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Mixing herbs

From: "kathy gauthier" <kgauthie@acs.ryerson.ca>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:29:11 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "kathy gauthier" <kgauthie@acs.ryerson.ca>:



I was just wondering if it is alright to take the following herbs together.

St.John's Wort

Ginkgo Biloba

Ginseng

Garlic

Kava Kava



If there is some bad mixing here please let me know.



Kathy







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Mixing herbs

From: Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:26:24 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Scott and/or Aliceann Carlton <carlton@mint.net>:



At 08:29 PM 11/23/98 -0500, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from "kathy gauthier" <kgauthie@acs.ryerson.ca>:

>

>I was just wondering if it is alright to take the following herbs together.

>St.John's Wort

>Ginkgo Biloba

>Ginseng

>Garlic

>Kava Kava

>

>If there is some bad mixing here please let me know.

>

>Kathy

>

>Kathy--



It would help to know why you are taking this combination, at what times of

day, in what proportions, and in what medium (water, milk, capsules,

sprinkled on food, etc).



Aliceann

carlton@mint.net

Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/  Major revision

underway ....



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/  Recent revisions,

including "New Photos" and "A List of Maine Spider Species" has finally

made it!  Last update:  10 Nov. 1998.   ICQ # 23983182.  IM nick = naturepho







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Mixing herbs

From: "kathy gauthier" <kgauthie@acs.ryerson.ca>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:25:18 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "kathy gauthier" <kgauthie@acs.ryerson.ca>:



I take them in capsule form. One capsule of each twice a day, excecpt

KavaKava, that I take two capsules around 9 at night.

St.John's Wort

Ginkgo Biloba

Ginseng

Garlic

Kava Kava

Kathy







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Mixing herbs

From: Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:14:26 +0200

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Miikkali Leppihalme <mii@media.edu.hel.fi>:



kathy gauthier wrote:

> 

> I was just wondering if it is alright to take the following herbs together.

> St.John's Wort

> Ginkgo Biloba

> Ginseng

> Garlic

> Kava Kava



I have taken SJW and Ginkgo together. I have taken Ginseng and Ginkgo

together. I have taken Kava and Ginkgo together. I eat garlic all the

time (cooked and raw). I have had no bad experiences at all. But this is

only the personal experience of one.



-- 

Miikkali Leppihalme - mii@media.edu.hel.fi





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:29:22 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



Just wondering what causes that tingly feeling on the tongue after takign

echinacea?

Thanks,

Maureen









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:53:40 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



In response to "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



Which species of echinacea (purpurea, angustifolia, pallida or other) have you

been taking that causes that tingly feeling on the tongue?  I didn't get the

tingly feeling with Echinacea purpurea.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Re:Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:28:30 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<I didn't get the

tingly feeling with Echinacea purpurea.>>



That is what I am taking, the purpurea, I tinctured it myself. I have heard

reference being made to echinacea causing a tingly sensation on the tongue,

but this is the first time I ever really noticed. I thought someone might

explain why it does that, but maybe it isn't that "common!"

Maureen









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: Magda2@aol.com

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:14:09 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Magda2@aol.com:



Hello all,



     According to Andrew Weil, in ______-Natural Health, Natural

Medicine_____",the root produces a curious and distinctive numbing sensation

when held in the mouth for a few minutes. If a commercial preperation does not

do this, it is not good. Always test echinacea products by putting a bit on

the tongue; return any that fails to cause numbness."  pg.236



My 11 year old son and I also chewed on some purpurpea seeds and our tongue

and mouths became numb, also.  It is such an easy plant to grow that just

about anyone can make up their own potions...............and you know what you

are getting........not to mention the wonderful satisfaction of growing/making

your own concoctions for the betterment of your health and well-being.



Happy herbing............................Marianne





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: OakCamp@aol.com

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:55:12 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from OakCamp@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/24/98 10:22:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, Magda2@AOL.COM

writes:



<<  According to Andrew Weil, in ______-Natural Health, Natural

 Medicine_____",the root produces a curious and distinctive numbing sensation

 when held in the mouth for a few minutes. If a commercial preperation does

not

 do this, it is not good. Always test echinacea products by putting a bit on

 the tongue; return any that fails to cause numbness."  pg.236 >>

All echinacea species produce this sensation- if you don't get the tingle then

you probably have Rudbekia or Parthenium species falsely labeled Echinacea or

herb that is *way* too old.

The numbing comes from isobutylamides present primarily in the roots but also

found in upper plant parts especially during flower and seed production.  I

have been able to get tongue tingle from all plant parts of our e.

angustifolia, at any time of the growing season. (Sure, I munch herbs out in

the field :-)  )  I think it would be hard to get the tingle from dried herb/

flowers- but I've never tried it myself.

Hope this helps.

Barb Birkinbine

Oak Camp Herb Farm

OakCamp@aol.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:43:06 +0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Susana Augustyn <augustyn@colby.ixks.com>:



>



Augustifolia:



> I have been able to get tongue tingle from all plant parts of our e.

> angustifolia, at any time of the growing season. (Sure, I munch herbs out in

> the field :-)  )



Purpurea:



My purpurea blossoms (fresh) produced the tingling, also.  IN the dried form, it

did not.



Susana







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:33:49 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



That tingly feeling comes most strongly from Echinacea angustifolia root.

 It is NOT necessarily a measure of herbal quality as the Eclectics

believed (although it means you have E. angustifolia or purpurea root as

opposed to Patheniium integrifolium, a common adulturant).  E. purpurea,

which was widely adulturated in the Eclectic's time by both non-medicinal

echinacea species and P. integrifolium, and thus was considered inferior,

does not provide this at all in the flower and leaf tinctures.  These are

are proven to work as immunological modulators.  E. purpurea has a weaker

tingle than E. angustifolia in the root tincture.



The isobutylamides in the roots of E. purpurea and E. angustifolia (but

not E. pallida) cause the tingle.  The isobutylamides are soluble in

alcohol.  A grain alcohol tincture of E. angustifolia root causes not

only a tingle on my tongue but a strong false salt taste which will not

rinse out.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:29:22 -0500 "Maureen Hicks"

<rotty4me@tdstelme.net> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:

>

>Just wondering what causes that tingly feeling on the tongue after 

>takign

>echinacea?

>Thanks,

>Maureen

>

>

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:19:36 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<That tingly feeling comes most strongly from Echinacea angustifolia

root.>>



It's funny you say this as I tinctured the echinacea * purpurea* root. That

is one heck of a powerful tingle! Forget about taking the tincture straight,

your liable to zap your tongue off! My husband took the tincture just this

morning without any water or juice. He didn't know about the tingling as all

the other ech. we buy hasn't tingled. He said he couldn't feel his tongue

for about a half an hour! We had some friends over today & the wife tasted a

drop of the herb on her tongue & as she was doing it I said be careful it's

tingly! She tinctures her own herbs from fresh herbs as opposed to my

tinctures made from the dried root. She could not believe the tingle she got

& said that is the most potent strongest ech. she ever tasted!

Quite interesting, at least I know I did something right with my first try

at tincturing!

Maureen











==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: "Jan Schmidt" <jans@rnet.com>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:22:06 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Jan Schmidt" <jans@rnet.com>:



Tongue tingling and numbing with the  power of Echinacea, sounds like a

great combo for emergency gum and teeth problems before going to a dentist.

may times our dental problems happen off hours.

 Can some one comment on this idea?

TIA,

Jan S.

mail to:jans@rnet.com     ICQ# 23432898

Sweet Prairie Soap Co.

http://sweetprairiesoap.hypermart.net

http://www.pfeiferpublications.com/

Now accepting Visa & Mastercard!























==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:15:45 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



I don't think the echinacea reaction would substitute for anesthesia- it

is relatively short in effect.  If the pain is due to infection, it might

be of benefit (although this is one of the few cases where I use organic

cultivated (NOT wildcrafted) goldenseal because of the affinity that

hydrastine has to soft tissues.)  But continuous application of the

echinacea, only slightly diluted in water to prevent burning the tissues

with alcohol, should help.  Or chew on a piece of echinacea root.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:22:06 -0600 "Jan Schmidt" <jans@rnet.com> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Jan Schmidt" <jans@rnet.com>:

>

>Tongue tingling and numbing with the  power of Echinacea, sounds like 

>a

>great combo for emergency gum and teeth problems before going to a 

>dentist.

>may times our dental problems happen off hours.

> Can some one comment on this idea?

>TIA,

>Jan S.

>mail to:jans@rnet.com     ICQ# 23432898

>Sweet Prairie Soap Co.

>http://sweetprairiesoap.hypermart.net

>http://www.pfeiferpublications.com/

>Now accepting Visa & Mastercard!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>



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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:56:19 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



Maureen,



Could that superstrong tingle from the Echinacea purpurea root tincture have

been due to the ethanol used in making the tincture?



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:18:00 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:56:19 -0500, tmueller@bluegrass.net wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>Could that superstrong tingle from the Echinacea purpurea root tincture have

>been due to the ethanol used in making the tincture?



No. Some ech tinctures -do- that. I've a fresh Ech pallida root tinct that's a

killer (the tingle is so strong that even water tastes salty and mealy for about

an hour afterwards), I've a dried Ech ang herb tinct that tingles a bit, my

homegrown Ech purp fresh flowers / dried seedheads do it... the constituent

which does it is in different parts in different Echinaceas, and it's also found

in the flowers (and perhaps other parts) of Spilanthes sp. (toothache plant -

quite interesting looking) and others.

However, I'd be surprised if Ech purp was really superstrong on the tingle side.





There's basically two main strains of Ech (angustifolia + pallida on one side,

purpurea on the other) and these interbreed extensively within their groups. 



So perhaps it's one of the pallida group (with a far stronger tingle) that looks

like a purpurea... or, if it's storebought, then perhaps it's just mislabeled.



A tidbit: any Ech grown in acid soil won't have much activity. They need

limestone. 

A tidbit: you can use the root of Rudbeckia laciniata / R. hirta for the same as

you'd use Ech. Not the herb though.

A tidbit: you can use the herb of most any Ech sp. as you would the root. They

might not be quite as strong (even if E.purp research was done on the herb, not

the root (I can understand that - just look at the size of the plant, and then

the size of the root...))



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: Todd Luger <herb-t@SpiritOne.com>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:13:19 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Todd Luger <herb-t@SpiritOne.com>:



It is my understanding that the tingle of echinacea is an inherent

property of the herb.  It can be detected in freezedried products, as

well, but perhaps liquid spreads the sensation over the tongue more

thoroughly.  The "tingle" may be due to a volatile element that is

destroyed when making conventioanl powders or teas, but is preserved in

cold process methods, like tinctures.  Th degree of the tingle may also

relect the strength and freshness of the herb.





==========

To: "herblist" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:49:59 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>:



>Tongue tingling and numbing with the  power of Echinacea, sounds like a

>great combo for emergency gum and teeth problems before going to a dentist.

>may times our dental problems happen off hours.

>Can some one comment on this idea?

>TIA,

>Jan S.



That would really be a waste of Echinachea, although a course of the herb

might be in order to prevent or help the body to rid itself of an infection.

Cloves either ground or as an essential oil are a true numbing agent and

work wonders on relieving the pain after a dental procedure.  Haven't tried

it in place of Novocain during an extraction though.



Marie Winston

b.winston@worldnet.att.net









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea & tongue tingling

From: Todd Luger <herb-t@SpiritOne.com>

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:18:20 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Todd Luger <herb-t@SpiritOne.com>:



Indeed echinacea was considered an important toothache remedy by the

eclectic physicians practicng in north america, from around 1875 until

the present day amongst some of their modern heirs in the profession of

Naturopathic Medicine.





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Candidiasis, was Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:45:27 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:52:22 -0000, "Graham White" <hendongreen@gn.apc.org>

wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:



>A quote from the orthodox bible on Candida "Candida and Candidosis" by Frank

>Odds:

>'The usual observation about the microscopic appearance of C. albicans in

>infected human tissues is that a mixture of budding yeasts, pseudohyphae and

>true hyphae can be seen' (p. 43)



... and then you drink a tea of fireweed (Epilobium angustifolium) leaves or

flowering tops, and those candida spores sprout but cannot flower. So, no more

candida, after a couple months with your three cups fireweed tea a day. 



It's an abundant weed, and -really- easy to pick too, so if you pay lotsa bucks

for it you've been taken.



If you have candidiasis it helps to add gut flora normalizing stuff, and check

why you were overrun with candida in the first place - if it was simply

antibiotics then fireweed (and perhaps other, stronger antifungals, depending on

severity of your problem) with acidophilus / lactobacillus / live yoghurt, and

perhaps frog egg stuff (psyllium, flax seed) should be sufficient.



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Candidiasis, was Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:26:26 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<... and then you drink a tea of fireweed (Epilobium angustifolium) leaves

or

flowering tops, and those candida spores sprout but cannot flower. So, no

more

candida, after a couple months with your three cups fireweed tea a day. >>



I have never heard this herb mentioned before in dealing with candidiasis.

You make it all sound so simple to cure, I have been battling this thing for

years. Pau d' arco is the herb I am currently using & have used it before as

a tea. Currently I am using it in a tincture I made. I will look up this

fireweed stuff. Can it be tinctured or is the tea better? As for the other

stuff I have done the acidophilus, flax, other anifungals, & even

prescription drugs. All I ever hear about is how resistant the candida is &

can even endure bouts with strong anifungals. I've never taken anything that

just made me better over a few months time, but I always hope! I also think

after fighting an infection of candida that the *normal* amounts that are

supposed to be in the body trigger my immune system to try & get rid of it.

it's a tough battle.



Thanks,

Maureen











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Candidiasis, was Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:59:35 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:26:26 -0500, "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

wrote to <herb@MyList.net>:



>I have never heard this herb mentioned before in dealing with candidiasis.

>You make it all sound so simple to cure, I have been battling this thing for

>years. Pau d' arco is the herb I am currently using & have used it before as

>a tea. Currently I am using it in a tincture I made. I will look up this

>fireweed stuff. Can it be tinctured or is the tea better? 



Use teas for candidiasis, not tinctures. 

I haven't ever heard anybody using fireweed in tincture - it a) doesn't warrant

the expense and b) has no discernible "active constituents", other than the

whole plant.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Candidiasis, was Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: Roses9652@aol.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:27:06 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Roses9652@aol.com:



Is this form typical "fireweed" that grows all over the midwest and west?

Would this be dried then made into a tea?  Does a person experience the "die

off" symptoms that are usual with antifungals when using the tea?  Can a

person use both the Pau D'Arco and fireweed?     





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Candidiasis, was Re: mold, bacteria or simply sediment?

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:19:15 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:27:06 EST, Roses9652@aol.com wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>Is this form typical "fireweed" that grows all over the midwest and west?



Common names vary. Get thee out your botany tome and look it up. The latin name

was Epilobium angustifolium.



>Would this be dried then made into a tea?  



Yes.



>Does a person experience the "die

>off" symptoms that are usual with antifungals when using the tea?  



No.



>Can a person use both the Pau D'Arco and fireweed?     



If a person wants to. But why would you want to?



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: "Med Herbs" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Flushing?

From: "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:34:09 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>:



Hello all,



Wondering if anyone has any input for my little problem.  When I come close

to having a sinus / allergy flare up, just feeling a tickle in my throat or

just a bit stuffy, I get a rash that looks like I have had on a bikini and

been sunburned.  I am clear in the underwear areas for about 12 hours and

then it spreads to the rest of my torso and face.  It will clear before I

get sick, especially if I use echinacea, etc..  My chiropractor has seen it

and is puzzled.  He thinks it may be the way my immune system releases

toxins.  For years I thought I was having a reaction to something but now I

see the pattern.  Any ideas?



Also, I would like to warn people that the is a terrible virus out there

that is deadly as far as dehydration in about 2 hours.  My mother has just

left the hospital after a 5 day stay.  She was in renal failure due to the

intestinal and kidney distress.  Her DR.is now in the hospital claiming he

caught it from her.  Please, if anyone starts to show symptoms, vomiting and

diarrhea, to please put someone on alert to take them for treatment within a

couple of hours.  Do not let go on for too long!  I am located in B'Ham,

Alabama USA.



Thanks,

Marianne

jedihands@wwisp.com









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Flushing?

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:24:26 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: M. Lazar <jedihands@wwisp.com>

To: Med Herbs <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 10:34 AM

Subject: Flushing?





>To herb@MyList.net from "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>:

>

>Hello all,

>

>Wondering if anyone has any input for my little problem.  When I come close

>to having a sinus / allergy flare up, just feeling a tickle in my throat or

>just a bit stuffy, I get a rash that looks like I have had on a bikini and

>been sunburned.  I am clear in the underwear areas for about 12 hours and

>then it spreads to the rest of my torso and face.  It will clear before I

>get sick, especially if I use echinacea, etc..  My chiropractor has seen it

>and is puzzled.  He thinks it may be the way my immune system releases

>toxins.  For years I thought I was having a reaction to something but now I

>see the pattern.  Any ideas?

>

>Also, I would like to warn people that the is a terrible virus out there

>that is deadly as far as dehydration in about 2 hours.  My mother has just

>left the hospital after a 5 day stay.  She was in renal failure due to the

>intestinal and kidney distress.  Her DR.is now in the hospital claiming he

>caught it from her.  Please, if anyone starts to show symptoms, vomiting

and

>diarrhea, to please put someone on alert to take them for treatment within

a

>couple of hours.  Do not let go on for too long!  I am located in B'Ham,

>Alabama USA.

>

>Thanks,

>Marianne

>jedihands@wwisp.com

>

>

>

Tend to your digestive system.  Change your diet to exclude hot foods (i.e.

Mexican, cajun etc.) and caffeine.  Nourish the liver and kidneys with

Dandelion root beverage.  Drink COLD yarrow infusion to cool the liver.

Make sure elimination is normal and active.  Drink LOTS of water, quart or

so a day.  This should start to put you on the right track.  More

information would be needed for further enlightenment.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Infant Ear infection

From: Michael Umehara <umeham@rpi.edu>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:28:12 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Michael Umehara <umeham@rpi.edu>:



Hi all,



  My 10 month old has had recurring ear infections these past two months

- actually it isn't clear is she ever got rid of her original one.



  Anyway, I am debating giving her the garlic in oil treatment since she

also gets a large wax buildup in her ears or if it's even advised for a

child of this age.



Any advice or suggestions to help her? She's on her 4th treatment of

standard antibiotics (Cefzil) and she has a bit of congestion in her

lungs. The pediatrician has already mentioned using the tubes and I

would like to avoid that as much as possible.



Thanks,



Mike

umeham@rpi.edu







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Infant Ear infection

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:01:49 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:28:12 -0500, Michael Umehara <umeham@rpi.edu> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>  My 10 month old has had recurring ear infections these past two months

>- actually it isn't clear is she ever got rid of her original one.

>

>  Anyway, I am debating giving her the garlic in oil treatment since she

>also gets a large wax buildup in her ears or if it's even advised for a

>child of this age.



Take her off all cow's milk. 

And then use infused mullein oil for the earaches, as infused garlic oil gives

problems to about one in five. Mullein oil is anti-inflammatory in addition to

being a great ear pain soother. And no, there's no problems with it in infants

either. Use a drop or two, pocket-warm, in the achy ear.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Infant Ear infection

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:20:32 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



The tubes remove the immediate infection but nearly always cause scarring

in the ears.  They also interfere with swimming  and water play.  Stay

with warm garlic oil, infused muellin oil or a squirt of kyolic.



I would ditch the antibiotics which will kill off the beneficial bacteria

that protect her from future ear infections.  If she is on food, give her

probiotics, miso soup and a medicinal dose or two of blue cheese, then

cut out all dairy and extra sugar.   Remove air pollutants like cigarette

smoke.  If she nurses, nurse her more frequently when she has an

infection coming on, and have her mother eat raw garlic.  In fact, try

not to wean her until her second year as she is sensitive.



If she is on formula, it may be the culprit.  See if nursing can be

reestablished- it often can many months after stopping.  Alternatively

(but less satisfactorily) change the formula.  Soy or goat milk formulas

can help, although some children have allergic reactions from soy too.



When she gets sick, bathe her in water with three cups of strong lemon

balm or yarrow infusion (1 oz./quart of water, infused for at least a

half hour.)  Keep her in the water for a half hour.  Nurse her

frequently.  Make sure she has liquids, and let her ride it out.  It is

not good to supress children's illnesses, unless the fever gets too high

or unless meningitis is suspect.  Just offer her gentle support, catnip

tea and let her body's immune processes strengthen by learning to fight

disease.  When she is over 18 months (but not before because of infant

botulinum dangers with honey) a chopped up clove of garlic dipped in

honey can be taken to fight infections.



My own sons benefitted from sacro-cranial manipulation in reducing their

ear infections.  I had one child  who had the ear tubes and regret having

gone that route.  It immediately helped his hearing, but speaking

directly to him in a louder voice would have helped the hearing without

the later side effects.  



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:28:12 -0500 Michael Umehara <umeham@rpi.edu>

writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from Michael Umehara <umeham@rpi.edu>:

>

>Hi all,

>

>  My 10 month old has had recurring ear infections these past two 

>months - actually it isn't clear is she ever got rid of her original

one.

>

>  Anyway, I am debating giving her the garlic in oil treatment since 

>she also gets a large wax buildup in her ears or if it's even advised

for 

>a child of this age.

>

>Any advice or suggestions to help her? She's on her 4th treatment of

>standard antibiotics (Cefzil) and she has a bit of congestion in her

>lungs. The pediatrician has already mentioned using the tubes and I

>would like to avoid that as much as possible.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Mike

>umeham@rpi.edu

>

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

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==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Candidiasis- Fireweed herb

From: "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:23:53 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:



<<Use teas for candidiasis, not tinctures.

I haven't ever heard anybody using fireweed in tincture - it a) doesn't

warrant

the expense and b) has no discernible "active constituents", other than the

whole plant.>>



I have used both pau d arco tea & tinctures. Can a tea be made out of a

tincture? Also where do you get fireweed? I can't find it anywhere so far

I've looked.

Thanks,

Maureen









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Candidiasis- Fireweed herb

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:24:18 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: Maureen Hicks <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 7:25 AM

Subject: Re: Candidiasis- Fireweed herb





>To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:

>

><<Use teas for candidiasis, not tinctures.

>I haven't ever heard anybody using fireweed in tincture - it a) doesn't

>warrant

>the expense and b) has no discernible "active constituents", other than the

>whole plant.>>

>

>I have used both pau d arco tea & tinctures. Can a tea be made out of a

>tincture? Also where do you get fireweed? I can't find it anywhere so far

>I've looked.

>Thanks,

>Maureen

>

>

>You can put tincture in hot water and drink it as "tea".  It does help

dissapate the alcohol.  Fireweed is prevalent in the Pacific Northwest and

many other areas.  If you want some next summer, it grows all over the place

here.  I can send you all you want.  It's finished for this year however.

The greens are good eating early in spring.  You can also make fireweed

"honey" with the blossoms.  Throw the blooms in salad.  There's lots of

things you can do with fireweed.  You can even make "rope" from the stem

fibers.  You may be able to find seeds from some place like Richters.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Candidiasis- Fireweed herb

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:33:03 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



I'm glad to see that there is a use for fireweed (Epilobium

angustifolium)

 which I saw growing everywhere in magenta profusion last summer in the

Pacific northwest.  It grows along roadsides, in clearings and on burned

woodlands from Canada to Maryland, from coast to coast in the US.  Check

a picture of the herb in a wildflower book.  (Newcombs, p 131;Audobon,

plate 541.)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:23:53 -0500 "Maureen Hicks"

<rotty4me@tdstelme.net> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Maureen Hicks" <rotty4me@tdstelme.net>:

>

><<Use teas for candidiasis, not tinctures.

>I haven't ever heard anybody using fireweed in tincture - it a) 

>doesn't

>warrant

>the expense and b) has no discernible "active constituents", other 

>than the

>whole plant.>>

>

>I have used both pau d arco tea & tinctures. Can a tea be made out of 

>a

>tincture? Also where do you get fireweed? I can't find it anywhere so 

>far

>I've looked.

>Thanks,

>Maureen

>

>

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

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==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: question about the list

From: sterling stoudenmire <sstouden@thelinks.com>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:28:13 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from sterling stoudenmire <sstouden@thelinks.com>:



i want to discover a database for the determinative genetics of 

the medicinal herbs available today..

is there someone who knows where the genetics of herbs are studied and how

the 

results of those studies are indexed or retrieved.?











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Temple/ Sinus Pressure

From: OakCamp@aol.com

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:20:38 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from OakCamp@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/24/98 2:33:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jedihands@wwisp.com writes:



<< Also, I would like to warn people that the is a terrible virus out there >>

I got the "creeping crud" Halloween night and am just now feeling better-

after a double round of antibiotics because of a sinus infection on top of it

all.  Now,(last antibiotic pill was Sunday morning) I have the sensation of

pressure around the eyes and temple region.  Showed up Sunday night and isn't

painful but rather feels like suddenly a tight band has been placed there.

I'm wondering what this is- is the sinus infection still there?  Feels like I

need to yawn to relieve the pressure- sometimes it helps to do this.  I've

never had sinus problems before this, so I'm kinda freaked by this weird

sensation.  I will talk to my doctor tomorrow but thought perhaps there is

something I can do herbally to relieve this or if someone had insight into

this phenomenon.

Thanks for your help.

Barb Birkinbine

Oak Camp Herb Farm

OakCamp@aol.com  





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Temple/ Sinus Pressure

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:45:11 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Herbgrow30@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/24/98 6:29:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, OakCamp@AOL.COM

writes:



<< I got the "creeping crud" Halloween night and am just now feeling better-

 after a double round of antibiotics because of a sinus infection on top of it

 all.  Now,(last antibiotic pill was Sunday morning) I have the sensation of

 pressure around the eyes and temple region.  Showed up Sunday night and isn't

 painful but rather feels like suddenly a tight band has been placed there.

 I'm wondering what this is- is the sinus infection still there?  Feels like I

 need to yawn to relieve the pressure- sometimes it helps to do this.  I've

 never had sinus problems before this, so I'm kinda freaked by this weird

 sensation.  I will talk to my doctor tomorrow but thought perhaps there is

 something I can do herbally to relieve this or if someone had insight into

 this phenomenon.

 Thanks for your help.

 Barb Birkinbine >>



Hi Barb -



We have seen a lot of infections like this at the pharmacy too.  The

naturopathic way is to recognize that an infection is the build-up of toxins

in the body, and an infection should be supported but allowed to run it's

course to let the body eliminate the toxins.  When you take the antibiotics

being prescribed for this kind of illness it pushes the infection further

inward thereby suppressing it.  The way we know this is when people go on a

heavy cleansing program after first coming to us, you can literally smell the

antibiotics that have been sitting in the liver come out through the skin.

They had been carrying all of that stuff around inside for years.



So, a goof cleansing program will help once you are feeling a bit better.

Don't do a heavy one, but a light one to start.  Linda Rector Page has some

wonderful types of programs, instructions for them, and the herbs to use in

her book "Healthy Healing."  I like it because she does not go too heavily

into cleansing at first but works you up to it.



Then you can use hyssop which is great for staving off beginning infections.

Plus for this cold-flu season we have many folks on a higher than normal level

of vitamin C, up to 2,000 mg per day when they are well, and up to 4,000 if

they are sick.  (You can actually take up to 8,000 a day but we don't go that

high).  The rule of thumb for titrating your dose of vitamin C is if you begin

to get a bit of loose bowel movement, then cut back by 1,000 mgs.  That is

your wellness dose.  Also a daily dose of echinacea tincture to assist with

immunity during this cold-flu season is a good idea also. 



Warm packs to the sinus area will help, as well as hot baths in eucalyptus oil

should bring relaxing and relief.



In health -

Mary Conley, MNH



Mary L. Conley, MNH

The Conley Herb Farm & Learning Center

Be Natural Healing Arts Center/Silver Spring, Md.

Blue Dragon Tinctures & Teas /Catalogue thru Herbgrow30@aol.com

***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.







 





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Temple/ Sinus Pressure

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:53:35 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Barbara-



Drink lots more.  The more you liquify the mucus, the faster it can

escape.  Take the usual probiotics and fermented foods to build up your

dammaged bacteria.  

Then go for sushi -have it with miso soup- and eat lots of

wasabi.(Japanese horseradish.)  The wasabi gets to the sinuses like

nothing else.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:20:38 EST OakCamp@aol.com writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from OakCamp@aol.com:

>

>In a message dated 11/24/98 2:33:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>jedihands@wwisp.com writes:

>

><< Also, I would like to warn people that the is a terrible virus out 

>there >>

>I got the "creeping crud" Halloween night and am just now feeling 

>better-

>after a double round of antibiotics because of a sinus infection on 

>top of it

>all.  Now,(last antibiotic pill was Sunday morning) I have the 

>sensation of

>pressure around the eyes and temple region.  Showed up Sunday night 

>and isn't

>painful but rather feels like suddenly a tight band has been placed 

>there.

>I'm wondering what this is- is the sinus infection still there?  Feels 

>like I

>need to yawn to relieve the pressure- sometimes it helps to do this.  

>I've

>never had sinus problems before this, so I'm kinda freaked by this 

>weird

>sensation.  I will talk to my doctor tomorrow but thought perhaps 

>there is

>something I can do herbally to relieve this or if someone had insight 

>into

>this phenomenon.

>Thanks for your help.

>Barb Birkinbine

>Oak Camp Herb Farm

>OakCamp@aol.com  

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Temple/ Sinus Pressure

From: Magda2@aol.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:34:00 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Magda2@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/25/98 5:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

creationsgarden@juno.com writes:



<<  Take the usual probiotics and fermented foods to build up your

 dammaged bacteria.   >>

Hi Karen..........would you please elaborate on this?

Danke...........Marianne





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Temple/ Sinus Pressure

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:47:02 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



When you take antibiotics, you kill off your beneficial bacteria in

addition to any disease-causing bacteria.  Your beneficial bacteria is

supposed to form a living wallpaper in your intestines, as well as

throughout your body.  This living wallpaper will literally surround and

devour invading disease-carrying bacteria, preventing them from making

you sick again.  So when you take antibiotics, you make yourself more

vulnerable to future illnesses.  I only use antibiotics for

life-threatening conditions or Lyme disease.



To rebuild the 500 or so species of bacteria in your gut, you need to

ingest foods with bacteria (traditional fermented foods) as well as

fructoogliosaccharides (FOS) found in fruits and vegetables, and raw

foods.  You can take probiotic supplements, which theoretically have

higher concentrations of acidophilous, bifidus, thermophilus and

sometimes other strains than do fermented foods (but do not always seem

to work- only buy enteric coated supplements, carried in the refrigerator

section of your health food store.  Traditional fermented foods seem to

work well too, especially full-fat plain yogurt, blue cheese, olives and

miso, but also including sauerkraut, pickles, live cheeses, koumiss and

fermented sauces.

Fat seems to help the organisms survive the acidity of the stomach.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:34:00 EST Magda2@aol.com writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from Magda2@aol.com:

>

>In a message dated 11/25/98 5:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>creationsgarden@juno.com writes:

>

><<  Take the usual probiotics and fermented foods to build up your

> dammaged bacteria.   >>

>Hi Karen..........would you please elaborate on this?

>Danke...........Marianne

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Temple/ Sinus Pressure

From: OakCamp@aol.com

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:51:35 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from OakCamp@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/24/98 6:55:16 PM Central Standard Time,

Herbgrow30@AOL.COM writes:



<< We have seen a lot of infections like this at the pharmacy too. >>

Thanks, Mary,  it's always comforting (in a curious sort of way) to know that

you aren't the only one who's gotten this bug.



<<So, a goof cleansing program will help once you are feeling a bit better.>>

I've never tried this before, I usually just try to reintroduce the

beneficials into the gut to replace what was zapped by the antibiotics.  I

will try to find the book by Linda Rector Page and then talk to someone at UW

Pharmacy.  This is something I've wanted to do, anyway.  My timid cleansing

has consisted of eating dandelion greens (you bet, out in the field ;)  ).



<<Then you can use hyssop which is great for staving off beginning

infections.>>

Got some in the barn.  So, is this preventative or do you think the infection

is still there waiting to flair up again?



<<snip....vitamin C, up to 2,000 mg per day.....snip....Also a daily dose of

echinacea tincture>>

I couldn't do any of my usual supplements while I felt bad...seemed like the

antibiotics were all I could handle at the time.  But I'm back on both vitamin

C and echinacea now to help finish this nasty thing.



<<Warm packs to the sinus area will help>>

That sounds just plain wonderful to me...must be what my body needs. :)



<<Drink lots more.>>

Thanks, Karen, for your suggestions, too.  I have been extremely thirsty since

finishing the antibiotics.  It's remarkable how your body drives you to regain

your health.



<<Then go for sushi-have it with miso soup-and eat lots of

wasabi.(Japanese horseradish.)>>

I just put the order in with my SO- love to have a medical reason to go out

and have a good meal!

Thanks all for helping me feel better with your kind responses.

Barb Birkinbine

Oak Camp Herb Farm

OakCamp@aol.com

 





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Temple/ Sinus Pressure

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:08:47 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Herbgrow30@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/26/98 10:55:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, OakCamp@AOL.COM

writes:



<< <<Then you can use hyssop which is great for staving off beginning

 infections.>>

 Got some in the barn.  So, is this preventative or do you think the infection

 is still there waiting to flair up again? >>



I ADD:



It's hard to tell but you can listen to your body...if you get the low grade

fever, a.m. sore throat, or still have a wet cough chances are those little

bugs are still there...then I'd do the vitamin C, hyssop and echinacea, plus

Karen's recommends.  After, and only after your health returns then do the

cleanse to get the chemicals out of your body, then begin to build up each

system.



It wouldn't hurt all of us with so many bugs running round to strengthen our

own vital force this winter.  Nobody can predict whether it will be a mild one

or a terrible one, but we can get through it with better health, fresh air and

better diets.  O.K. soapbox turned in!  



In health -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH

The Conley Herb Farm & Learning Center

Be Natural Healing Arts Center/Silver Spring, Md.

Blue Dragon Tinctures & Teas /Catalogue thru Herbgrow30@aol.com

***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.















==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: mugwort

From: David Shaenfield <dshaen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:37:50 -0600 (CST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from David Shaenfield <dshaen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>:





I have a bag of mugwort. 

Is it supposed to be ingested or smoked?

How much?



thanks,

David







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mugwort

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:09:23 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:37:50 -0600 (CST), David Shaenfield

<dshaen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote to herb@MyList.net:



>I have a bag of mugwort. 

>Is it supposed to be ingested or smoked?



For what? If you leave it beside your bed you'll get interesting dreams.

If you make a tea out of it you've a strong bitter.



It's got no hallucinogenic properties, if that's what you're asking.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mugwort

From: rkb5795 <rkb5795@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:54:12 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from rkb5795 <rkb5795@earthlink.net>:



Hello, David - actually the smoking idea is not too far offtrack. Among

my colleagues, mugwort, also commonly referred to as moxa or moxia, is

known as one of those interesting herbs that crosses healing-modality

lines. It is used in acupressure/acupuncture, as a substitute for

acupuncture needles. The herb is heaped into a small mound over an

acupoint and then lit. When it burns down to the skin the heat (and

sometimes even the burn or blister on the skin) is believed to create

the desired effect of stimulating the flow of "chi," much as an

acupuncture needle would. Western practitioners believe that the burn

changes the electrical flow by stimulating electrical impulses via the

heat or blistering response on the skin.



By the way, I noticed that you are emailing from the University of

Texas. (I am in Dallas). Do they offer any herbalism/herbology courses

there, out of curiosity?



Best wishes, Randy



David Shaenfield wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from David Shaenfield <dshaen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>:

> 

> I have a bag of mugwort.

> Is it supposed to be ingested or smoked?

> How much?

> 

> thanks,

> David





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mugwort

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:05:30 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:54:12 -0600, rkb5795 <rkb5795@earthlink.net> wrote to

herb@MyList.net:



>To herb@MyList.net from rkb5795 <rkb5795@earthlink.net>:

>

>Hello, David - actually the smoking idea is not too far offtrack. Among

>my colleagues, mugwort, also commonly referred to as moxa or moxia, is



Moxa is not mugwort, it's the grey fuzz that's left behind in the bag once

you've used up all your mugwort. Leaf lint, as it were.



Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mugwort

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:51:26 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



You can sleep on it like a pillow for dreams.  Typical tincture ratios of

1:5 with 100 proof alcohol will work for tinctures.  Michael Tierra has

instructions on making moxa for burning at www.planetherbs.com  



But what do you need it for?

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:37:50 -0600 (CST) David Shaenfield

<dshaen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from David Shaenfield <dshaen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>:

>

>

>I have a bag of mugwort. 

>Is it supposed to be ingested or smoked?

>How much?

>

>thanks,

>David

>

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: mugwort

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:19:19 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: Henriette Kress <HeK@hetta.pp.fi>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 10:13 PM

Subject: Re: mugwort





>To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):

>

>On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:37:50 -0600 (CST), David Shaenfield

><dshaen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote to herb@MyList.net:

>

>>I have a bag of mugwort.

>>Is it supposed to be ingested or smoked?

>

>For what? If you leave it beside your bed you'll get interesting dreams.

>If you make a tea out of it you've a strong bitter.

>

>It's got no hallucinogenic properties, if that's what you're asking.

>

>Henriette

>

This last summer we drove through the mountain west of the US and for a car

freshner we picked up some artemesia and hung it from the mirror.  We all

had nice pleasant dreams and the car smelled great.  It didn't interfere

with driving at all (ha ha)







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mugwort

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:19:50 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Moxa is not mugwort, it's the grey fuzz that's left behind in the bag once

> you've used up all your mugwort. Leaf lint, as it were.



Actually, moxa refers to the plant when used in therapy. It is a product of the

plant. Aiye (mugwort leaf) is the Chinese for the plant part used.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Mugwort Info

From: Magda2@aol.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:19:51 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Magda2@aol.com:



 <A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/treats/mugwort.html">Click here: A

Dreamy Mugwort Page</A>

Info for you to peruse on the subject you inquired about......enjoy.

Marianne



<<< >>>>>>>>





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Bladder Infections

From: "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:10:34 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "M. Lazar" <jedihands@wwisp.com>:



Jamie, I have the same problem.

1) Take showers

2) Take shower after sex

3) Use only soap for sensitive skin with no perfumes.  I have to change

soaps every couple of years

4) Laundry detergent can be an irritant

5) Go without underwear as much as possible

6) When you feel a flare up starting, drink cranberry juice or for less

calories take cranberry capsules.

7) Use only white, unscented toilet paper



Hope this helps, I went from 5 or 6 a month to maybe 1 a year.



Marianne

jedihands@wwisp.com



 I get a bladder infection by taking a bath

>w/bubbles, oils, etc.  (I've never tried essential oils though).  I also

>get bladder infections by having sex.

>Everytime my husband and I are intimate I take a "Keflex"--500 mg.  to

>prevent a bladder infection.  This is driving me crazy and making me scared

>now that I know I'm probably hurting my body by taking it.

>I do all the standards.........drink lots of water & urinate right after

>sex but it doesn't help.

>I sure would appreciate any advice you could give me to deal with this in a

>healthier way.

>Best, Jamie

>

>QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)

>

>"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

>of our friends. "

>       - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

>

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Bladder Infections

From: jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel)

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:50:50 -0800 (PST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):



Thanks for all the advice I got regarding my friend with Lymphoma.  Now I

have a question about myself.  I get a bladder infection by taking a bath

w/bubbles, oils, etc.  (I've never tried essential oils though).  I also

get bladder infections by having sex.

Everytime my husband and I are intimate I take a "Keflex"--500 mg.  to

prevent a bladder infection.  This is driving me crazy and making me scared

now that I know I'm probably hurting my body by taking it.

I do all the standards.........drink lots of water & urinate right after

sex but it doesn't help.

I sure would appreciate any advice you could give me to deal with this in a

healthier way.

Best, Jamie



QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)



"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

of our friends. "

       - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968) 









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Bladder Infections

From: paf@connix.com

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:09:58 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from paf@connix.com:



At 2:50 PM -0800 11/25/98, Jamie Kiesel wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):

>

>Thanks for all the advice I got regarding my friend with Lymphoma.  Now I

>have a question about myself.  I get a bladder infection by taking a bath

>w/bubbles, oils, etc.  (I've never tried essential oils though).  I also

>get bladder infections by having sex.

>Everytime my husband and I are intimate I take a "Keflex"--500 mg.  to

>prevent a bladder infection.  This is driving me crazy and making me scared

>now that I know I'm probably hurting my body by taking it.

>I do all the standards.........drink lots of water & urinate right after

>sex but it doesn't help.

>I sure would appreciate any advice you could give me to deal with this in a

>healthier way.

>Best, Jamie



At one time I had problems similar to the above, and here's what helped me:

1) A moritorium on vaginal sex for 6 months; skip the antibiotic stuff

where possible

2) When resuming sex, be sure both partners are scrupulously clean

beforehand; void afterwards.

3) Empty your bladder every 2 hours during the day or every 4 hours at

night (this helped amazingly) And drink lots of pure water.  Never delay

going to the toilet.  I received this advice from the University of

Michigan Outpatient Urology clinic.  It worked well.

4) Cranberry capsules

5)Later I discovered I was hypothyroid.  Once I started taking Armour

thyroid, the UTI's ceased entirely.

Wishing you well, Anita

>





--



paf@connix.com









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Bladder Infections

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 01:38:33 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <georges-louis@friedli.com>:



At 02:50 PM 11/25/98 -0800, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):

>

>Thanks for all the advice I got regarding my friend with Lymphoma.  Now I

>have a question about myself.  I get a bladder infection by taking a bath

>w/bubbles, oils, etc.  (I've never tried essential oils though).  I also

>get bladder infections by having sex.

>Everytime my husband and I are intimate I take a "Keflex"--500 mg.  to

>prevent a bladder infection.  This is driving me crazy and making me scared

>now that I know I'm probably hurting my body by taking it.

>I do all the standards.........drink lots of water & urinate right after

>sex but it doesn't help.

>I sure would appreciate any advice you could give me to deal with this in a

>healthier way.

>Best, Jamie

>

>QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)

>

>"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

>of our friends. "

>       - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968) 

>

>

>

>Hi Jamie,

Keflex is Cephalexin: which is a synthetic modification of the antibiotic

Cephalosporin from the MOULD Cephalosporium acremonium.



Side Effects: Decreased white blood cells, anemia, dizziness, headache,

nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, anorexia, indigestion, itching, oral infection,

abdominal cramps and rash.



I think you should stop taking Keflex.



There are quite a few herbal antiseptics which you could use instead. Some

of the following herbal remedies disinfect the urinary tubules with their

volatile oils. 



Arctostaphylos uva-ursi, Agathosma betulina, Betula pendula, Daucus carota,

Peumus boldus, Apium graveolens etc.



Which ones to use will depend on your condition and what is causing the

problem.

There is a theory that as estrogen levels decline, bacteria is more prone

to adhere to the bladder lining and vaginal tissue.



Another theory states that, diminished blood flow to the bladder (i.e. lack

of oxygen and nutrients to cells) caused by stretched nerves. Here yoga

exercises and acupressure are prescribed.



Although it will be suggested to you to drink cranberry juice, I will say

drink it to prevent an infection but not to drink it when you already have

one. 

The most common bladder infection causing bacteria is Escherichia coli.

E.Coli produces two constituents known as adhesins that cause the organism

to cling to the epithelial cells and then multiply rapidly. Constituents in

cranberry juice inhibit adhesin activity, therefore, the bacteria cannot

attach itself to the bladder wall.



On the other hand, if one is infected then drinking cranberry juice which

contains hippuronic acid will increase the acidity of the urine and cause

more burning sensation.



You should also note that if you decide to use Arctostaphylos uva-ursi,

then you should consume a diet rich in vegetables (especially tomatoes),

fruits etc. because the herb will be effective only if the urine is

maintained at an alkaline pH. There is an explanation for this but I will

like to make things simple.



Find a good Herbalist who will be willing to get to the core of the problem.

These are suggestions you can implement immediately.



Take care



Louis

Georges-Louis Friedli, PhD, MSc, PgD.

http://www.friedli.com

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/louis





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Bladder Infections

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:18:55 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> I get a bladder infection by taking a bath

> w/bubbles, oils, etc.  (I've never tried essential oils though).  I also

> get bladder infections by having sex.



Which suggests a preexisting heat pattern. Instead of the Keflex, quit the

coffee.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Bladder Infections

From: jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel)

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:29:07 -0800 (PST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):





>Although it will be suggested to you to drink cranberry juice, I will say

>drink it to prevent an infection but not to drink it when you already have

>one.



Cranberry concetrate was the most frequent  advice I got.  Should it be

taken daily for prevention?

Or just before sex?



>Find a good Herbalist who will be willing to get to the core of the problem.



Can anyone on the list recommend someone in Tacoma Washington?



Thanks so much!

Jamie





QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)



"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

of our friends. "

       - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968) 









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Bladder Infections

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:01:04 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: Jamie Kiesel <jkiesel@ups.edu>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 9:23 AM

Subject: Re: Bladder Infections





>To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):

>

>

>>Although it will be suggested to you to drink cranberry juice, I will say

>>drink it to prevent an infection but not to drink it when you already have

>>one.

>

>Cranberry concetrate was the most frequent  advice I got.  Should it be

>taken daily for prevention?

>Or just before sex?

>

>>Find a good Herbalist who will be willing to get to the core of the

problem.

>

>Can anyone on the list recommend someone in Tacoma Washington?

>

>Thanks so much!

>Jamie

>

>

The problem with cranberry concentrate is the sugar content.  The little

beasties LOVE sugar.  If you use cranberry juice, you should look for the

kind with NO ADDED SUGAR.  Otherwise, it won't help all that much.  Lemon in

tea can be helpful (no sugar or honey).







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re:Mugwort

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:04:51 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:



>From what I have read on acupuncture with moxabustion, mugwort is burned in a 

little cup attached to the needle.  Mugwort is not burned directly on the skin,

but I would still be quite scared to have something burning so close to my skin.



Thomas Mueller

tmueller@bluegrass.net









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Re:Mugwort

From: "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:21:38 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>:



I've seen it burned on the skin, the practicioner put a little cream on the

skin to insulate it a bit and made a tiny mound of moxa. She was also using

a special Japanese moxa that is free from twigs and lumpy bits.



Don't try this at home kids.



-----Original Message-----

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 12:32 AM

Subject: Re:Mugwort





>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

>>From what I have read on acupuncture with moxabustion, mugwort is burned

in a

>little cup attached to the needle.  Mugwort is not burned directly on the

skin,

>but I would still be quite scared to have something burning so close to my

skin.

>

>Thomas Mueller

>tmueller@bluegrass.net

>

>







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Mugwort

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:59:05 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Burning moxa directly upon the skin is prohibited by the insurance that

most US acupuncturists carry.  It is easy to slip and cause bad burns, so

I second the motion not to try this at home.  However burning the rolled

moxa sticks available in Chinese pharmacies, held over the skin points

that require warming is considerably safer.  Just keep a glass of water

or a moxa extinguisher nearby and knock off the ashes so you don't get a

nasty burn when the ash drops with a bit of coal on your skin.  Have your

acupuncturist teach you how.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:21:38 -0500 "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>

writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from "Lee Hunter" <lee.hunter@hum.com>:

>

>I've seen it burned on the skin, the practicioner put a little cream 

>on the

>skin to insulate it a bit and made a tiny mound of moxa. She was also 

>using

>a special Japanese moxa that is free from twigs and lumpy bits.

>

>Don't try this at home kids.

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: tmueller@bluegrass.net <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

>To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

>Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 12:32 AM

>Subject: Re:Mugwort

>

>

>>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>>

>>>From what I have read on acupuncture with moxabustion, mugwort is 

>burned

>in a

>>little cup attached to the needle.  Mugwort is not burned directly on 

>the

>skin,

>>but I would still be quite scared to have something burning so close 

>to my

>skin.

>>

>>Thomas Mueller

>>tmueller@bluegrass.net

>>

>>

>

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Re:Mugwort

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:13:58 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: tmueller@BLUEGRASS.NET <tmueller@BLUEGRASS.NET>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 8:32 PM

Subject: Re:Mugwort





>To herb@MyList.net from tmueller@bluegrass.net:

>

>From what I have read on acupuncture with moxabustion, mugwort is burned in

a

>little cup attached to the needle.  Mugwort is not burned directly on the

skin,

>but I would still be quite scared to have something burning so close to my

skin.

>

>Thomas Mueller

>tmueller@bluegrass.net

>

>

>

Moxabustion is the most soothing of treatments.  If you want to feel greatly

relaxed and warm.  It enhances acupuncture.  I LOVE it.  I have also used

moxa sticks to "stimulate" acupuncture points at home for some conditions.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Mugwort

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:17:08 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> >From what I have read on acupuncture with moxabustion, mugwort is burned in

> a

> >little cup attached to the needle.  Mugwort is not burned directly on the

> skin,

> >but I would still be quite scared to have something burning so close to my

> skin.



Moxa is definitely burned directly on the skin in 'direct' moxatherapy. Scars

are the intended result in that form of the therapy.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Mugwort

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:18:02 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> From what I have read on acupuncture with moxabustion, mugwort is

> burned in a  little cup attached to the needle. 



No cup, it is just gobbed on the end of the needle in that form of the therapy.



Paul





==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Re:Mugwort

From: "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:44:59 -0600

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Marcia Wilson" <herblady@fidnet.com>:



Anita, I was curious, as to if you buy your own moxa sticks or if you can

tell me where to purchase them.  I am soooo interested in moxabustion, and

grow lots of mugwort. I even have directions for drying it to make it for

moxibustion, but would love to purchase some first to be sure mine is

right.  Any help?



Thanks,

Marcia Wilson

Journeywoman Herbalist





> Moxabustion is the most soothing of treatments.  If you want to feel

greatly

> relaxed and warm.  It enhances acupuncture.  I LOVE it.  I have also used

> moxa sticks to "stimulate" acupuncture points at home for some

conditions.

> 





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Tamoxifen side effects..

From: James Barrett <jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:20:59 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from James Barrett <jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk>:



Good day to the list -



First, thanks for the feedback on my info-request on thyroid problems. 

Reading earlier posts has been immensely useful.



My main enquiry - an old friend of ours had a lumpectomy several years

ago, followed by radio- and chemotherapy.  For years after that, she was

on a tamoxifen regime.  That was discontinued at her request about 10

months ago.  She is still seeing the specialists at our Royal Marsden

Hospital.  For some months, she has been suffering from what has been

described by a dermatologist, as lichen sclerosis in the groin.  The

flesh is violently inflamed.  An ointment treatment, accompanied by a

no-washing ban has had no effect. Another Dermo feels the diagnosis is

inaccurate as there is a fierce burning sensation, as opposed to the

expected itching.  It seems to be edging towards necrosis in that area.

As she was treated for cancer in the lymph nodes under her arms, clearly

her immune system has not much with which to fight.

Can members of the list suggest any herbal treatments to alleviate her

distress and allow her to regain her dignity.



(Five women were operated on for the same problem on the same day in her

ward.  She is the only survivor.  All aged around 50 at that time.)



TIA - 

James Barrett



I am very concerned that without some positive intervention, this might

demoralise a normally very spirited woman and that would be it.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tamoxifen side effects..

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:16:36 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> For some months, she has been suffering from what has been

> described by a dermatologist, as lichen sclerosis in the groin.  The

> flesh is violently inflamed. 



A fire complaint.



> An ointment treatment, accompanied by a

> no-washing ban has had no effect. 



No washing? How barbaric.



>Another Dermo feels the diagnosis is

> inaccurate as there is a fierce burning sensation, as opposed to the

> expected itching.  



Itching is a defect in Qi flow. In a fire complaint, fire is expected.



>It seems to be edging towards necrosis in that area.



Well, fire does deteriorate tissues. The KEY thing is bitter, flesh producing,

cold-propertied herbs applied topically. The bitter herbs are preferably NOT

astringent.



Then, determine WHY it is occuring. What is the source of fire?



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tamoxifen side effects..

From: Ron Tay <opendoor@pacbell.net>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:12:10 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Ron Tay <opendoor@pacbell.net>:



Has she tried application of FRESH medicinal aloe vera to the skin in question?

It's worth a try, because it has so many good effects on skin, and is cheap and

easy...



Ron Tay



James Barrett wrote:



> To herb@MyList.net from James Barrett <jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk>:

>

> Good day to the list -

>

> First, thanks for the feedback on my info-request on thyroid problems.

> Reading earlier posts has been immensely useful.

>

> My main enquiry - an old friend of ours had a lumpectomy several years

> ago, followed by radio- and chemotherapy.  For years after that, she was

> on a tamoxifen regime.  That was discontinued at her request about 10

> months ago.  She is still seeing the specialists at our Royal Marsden

> Hospital.  For some months, she has been suffering from what has been

> described by a dermatologist, as lichen sclerosis in the groin.  The

> flesh is violently inflamed.  An ointment treatment, accompanied by a

> no-washing ban has had no effect. Another Dermo feels the diagnosis is

> inaccurate as there is a fierce burning sensation, as opposed to the

> expected itching.  It seems to be edging towards necrosis in that area.

> As she was treated for cancer in the lymph nodes under her arms, clearly

> her immune system has not much with which to fight.

> Can members of the list suggest any herbal treatments to alleviate her

> distress and allow her to regain her dignity.

>

> (Five women were operated on for the same problem on the same day in her

> ward.  She is the only survivor.  All aged around 50 at that time.)

>

> TIA -

> James Barrett

>

> I am very concerned that without some positive intervention, this might

> demoralise a normally very spirited woman and that would be it.







==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Re: Tamoxifen side effects..

From: "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:35:21 -0900

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "Anita Hales" <Anita.Hales@worldnet.att.net>:





-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Tay <opendoor@pacbell.net>

To: herb@MyList.net <herb@MyList.net>

Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 11:13 AM

Subject: Re: Tamoxifen side effects..





>To herb@MyList.net from Ron Tay <opendoor@pacbell.net>:

>

>Has she tried application of FRESH medicinal aloe vera to the skin in

question?

>It's worth a try, because it has so many good effects on skin, and is cheap

and

>easy...

>

>Ron Tay

>

>James Barrett wrote:

>

>> To herb@MyList.net from James Barrett

<jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk>:

>>

>> Good day to the list -

>>

>> First, thanks for the feedback on my info-request on thyroid problems.

>> Reading earlier posts has been immensely useful.

>>

>> My main enquiry - an old friend of ours had a lumpectomy several years

>> ago, followed by radio- and chemotherapy.  For years after that, she was

>> on a tamoxifen regime.  That was discontinued at her request about 10

>> months ago.  She is still seeing the specialists at our Royal Marsden

>> Hospital.  For some months, she has been suffering from what has been

>> described by a dermatologist, as lichen sclerosis in the groin.  The

>> flesh is violently inflamed.  An ointment treatment, accompanied by a

>> no-washing ban has had no effect. Another Dermo feels the diagnosis is

>> inaccurate as there is a fierce burning sensation, as opposed to the

>> expected itching.  It seems to be edging towards necrosis in that area.

>> As she was treated for cancer in the lymph nodes under her arms, clearly

>> her immune system has not much with which to fight.

>> Can members of the list suggest any herbal treatments to alleviate her

>> distress and allow her to regain her dignity.

>>

>> (Five women were operated on for the same problem on the same day in her

>> ward.  She is the only survivor.  All aged around 50 at that time.)

>>

>> TIA -

>> James Barrett

>>

>> I am very concerned that without some positive intervention, this might

>> demoralise a normally very spirited woman and that would be it.

>

>

Another topical help would be to use equal parts slippery elm bark powder

and comfrey powder.   Apply these in poultice to the affected area and leave

overnight.  I suspect it will soothe tremendously.  Mullein might be another

herb to help applied topically.  Internally, I would use perhaps astragalus,

burdock root, cleavers, and fennel or licorice root.  These should not

interfere with her conventional treatments.  She should consult her

physician in any case before using herbs with drugs.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Tamoxifen side effects..

From: Todd Luger <herb-t@SpiritOne.com>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:59:38 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Todd Luger <herb-t@SpiritOne.com>:



fierce burning sensation in groin is heat in chinese medicine



sclerotic skin disorders are treated with blood movers



astragalus can easily worsen skin diseases with a heat component,

despite its beneficial effects on immunity; good immunity herbs from TCM

would be lonicera, oldenlandia, dandelion, viola from the clear heat and

toxin category



cooling blood movers include moutan, lithospermum, red peony, salvia



additional coolants and skin softeners include scrophularia and raw

rehmannia



because the symptoms are in the groin, a groin specific heat clearer,

such as sophora; also good antifungal ,just in case









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Tamoxifen etc

From: "linda semple" <lindasemple@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:00:10 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "linda semple" <lindasemple@hotmail.com>:



>In reply to:

>jamesbarrett@intrepid.prestel.co.uk

>My main enquiry - an old friend of ours had a lumpectomy several >years

>ago, followed by radio- and chemotherapy.  For years after that, she 

>was on a tamoxifen regime. 



Hi James



Sorry to hear about your friend. If she's in London anyway, perhaps you 

could get her to see one of the many excellent NIMHs (there's a picture 

of my past herbalist/teacher of my teacher on Henriette's website! nci 

of course...especially since I'm not in London any more)I think there 

were a couple of posts recently which mentioned the North london and the 

Balham Clinics both of which are good.

In the meantime, until she gets professional advice, she could try a 

calendula cream or simply wash with calendula infusion. The soothing 

qualities of this might work.



To help her lymph system along the way she could use cleavers 

(goose-grass -  'sticky willow' up here in Scotland. My teacher used to 

recommend an absolutely disgusting drink made from juiced fresh cleavers 

particularly for women who had had lymph nodes removed during surgery 

for breast cancer. As it's the wrong time of the year, I guess a very 

strong infusion or tincture would be ok. If, and I hope not, it's stilll 

a problem in the spring, cleavers turns up incredibly early on wasteland 

and in parks in Central London (I guess it's that additional few degrees 

warmth). I've found it in early January in places like old railway lines 

and along canal banks. If you find it, you can try the horrible juiced 

version for its amazing power but it's quite good simply chopped into 

stir frys or as a fresh early spring green...



And remind her not to be worried by the funny mucousy stuff that will 

pass out of her when she takes cleavers..



good luck



Linda



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: emptiness/beef/vegetarian diet

From: Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:49:28 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Richard Kerr <dikerr@smartt.com>:



At 09:35 AM 11/26/98 -0600, you wrote:

>To herb@MyList.net from Woolman <wool84@niia.net>:

>

micals or no, the issue is repairing emptiness, and it cannot easily be done

>> with a purist vegetarian diet such as people now consider to be 'healthy.'

>> 

>> Paul

>

>What exactly do you mean by emptiness?

>I'd also like your opinion Paul on vegetarian diet. If this is

>off topic please e-mail me privatly. Thanks

>

>Andie

>

>





I too would love to know the answer to this.  I remember my parents truly

believed that boiled beef and boiled chicken together could cure anything.

Every Sunday they served the soup followed by the boiled meat, which we

spiced up with various herbs, and parmesan cheese.

Dina.







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: emptiness/beef/vegetarian diet

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:17:33 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> > Chemicals or no, the issue is repairing emptiness, and it cannot easily be

done

> > with a purist vegetarian diet such as people now consider to be 'healthy.'

> > 

> > Paul

> 

> What exactly do you mean by emptiness?

> I'd also like your opinion Paul on vegetarian diet. If this is

> off topic please e-mail me privatly. Thanks



Emptiness means the absence of needed qualities, such as energy, restfulness,

emotional balance, appetite....



Vegetarian diets are not necessarily more healthful than omnivorous diets.

Indeed, the low protein intake of most attempted 'veggie' diets is a serious

health problem. In addition, fruit or raw foods are not necessarily a healthful

food.



Other than those concerns, the purity and quality of food, restfulness of

lifestyle, is more important than the animal-sourced foods.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: emptiness/beef/vegetarian diet

From: John Leschinski <muscle@televar.com>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:57:10 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from John Leschinski <muscle@televar.com>:



On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:17:33 -0800 Paul <p_iannone@lamg.com> wrote:





>Vegetarian diets are not necessarily more healthful than omnivorous diets.

>Indeed, the low protein intake of most attempted 'veggie' diets is a serious

>health problem. In addition, fruit or raw foods are not necessarily a

>healthful

>food.

>

>Other than those concerns, the purity and quality of food, restfulness of

>lifestyle, is more important than the animal-sourced foods.





I'm SORRY, but I can NOT and will NOT let this one go by without a

passionate response. The adrenalin rushed right through my chest when I

read this commentary above. Listen, you may know a lot about HERBS Paul,

but you're way off on this info you're passing along on food, diet and

health. If we want to talk in terms of science alone, vegetarianism and its

benefits from a health perspective far exceeds the "omnivorous" or

"carnivorous" diet. The scientific documentation to support the case for

vegetarianism is overwhelming. The only thing I can think of, as to WHY

you'd support such a claim, is to justify your own personal preference for

eating meat.



The need for PROTEIN is dramatically overstated by most mainstream

so-called "experts". Your claim that low protein is a serious health

problem, is actually quite the opposite. Excess protein ingestion is a much

greater problem/threat than there being a deficiency. Americans are

phenomenally overfed on protein and animal fat, as well as many other so

called civilized societies throughout the world. Did you ever consider that

maybe, just maybe, all these people you're tending to in giving HERBAL

advice, that they need external sources to balance their chemistry and

resolve health problems, because of bacteriological contamination caused

through autointoxication as a result of MEAT ingestion? The stuff ROTS in

ones system. It produces all kinds of pathogens such as scatols, purines,

ammonia, etc. It increases the pH blood balance to one of acid, when the

body does better and STRIVES for one of an alkaline base?



Without looking at it from a documentation perspective, how about one of

simple observation? Look at the cultures throughout the world that live the

longest, and are the healthiest and you'll find that flesh foods are very

minimal or non-existent in their diets altogether. These cultures work

harder, live longer and have less health problems than the MEAT oriented

cultures like those of the folks in the good ol' USA and elsewhere. There's

nothing inherent in meat that can't be appropriated and assimilated for

optimal health, through vegetable sources. And through most plant and

vegetable sources, there aren't the compounded risks of increased coronary

problems, digestive tract maladies, and overall degenerative destruction

that takes place from eating flesh foods.



I'll go so far as to use myself to support this argument. I've been a

vegetarian for a long time. I'd say about 15 or more years now. I'm an avid

bodybuilder and exercise enthusiast. My bodyweight fluctuates between 185

and 190 pounds. I stand 5'11" and have a physical stature that, although

not your Mr. Olympia type, is quite well muscled, while obviously NOT

sporting the look of protein deficiency. My strength level far surpasses

your average bloke on the street, and my energy level doesn't suffer

because of NO MEAT in my diet. I suffer NO health problems, and when many

people my age (40) are nurturing a gut they can rest a beer can on while

HARD physical labor could possibly bring about their demise, I'm still

feeling like a teenager. Except for some typical middle aged thinning hair,

I also look chronologically younger than I am. I became a vegetarian

because of the relentless investigation of the truth and fact. Not

supposition and hearsay.



Though you made a point in iterating "the low protein intake of most

attempted 'veggie' diets is a serious health problem" you failed to report

that with educated insights into a vegetarian diet, it can be a very

successful regime for promoting health and well being. I found your point

of view to sidestep this critical point. And an even more lacking thing you

said was, "In addition, fruit or raw foods are not necessarily a healthful

food." That's ludicrous!! I can attest to numerous cases where people were

DYING from terminal or debilitating degenerative diseases and came back

from the death list through diets of fasting and all raw foods. The

Hippocrates Institute, one of many facilities, offers programs with just

such a protocol. Cooking food doesn't do anything to enhance or improve its

nutritive value. Digestibility in some cases, yes. Nutritional content, NO.

It destroys it.



I suggest because of your apparent "authoritative" position you hold on

this list in imparting information on herbs, that you reserve your

expertise for that, and don't go misleading people and/or misinforming them

into believing that vegetarianism represents a step toward counter health.

Because it DOES NOT! Of course, if people ate parsley, carrots and lettuce

and nothing else, problems would arise. If someone ate roast beef alone, so

would problems arise there. It's critical to see both sides of the issue,

and though some people may see my rant here as OFF TOPIC, it really isn't.

A person on this list who many look up to for answers, is giving

information that is NOT necessarily accurate or complete. I hold a strong

emotional conviction to the issue at hand, as I've seen people turn their

health completely around as a result of sensible vegetarianism.



I wrote a post recently to this list. Basically I tried to say that the

body is its own best healer, and that *most* HERBS should be used as a last

resort in trying to regain health, NOT as the first rung in the pursuit.

Medicinal herbs can have a tremendous positive impact on ones healing, but

there is the potential for toxicity and side effects JUST LIKE with DRUGS

too. Health is attained on its most molecular level, by reducing or

eliminating toxicity. When a substance is taken-in that provides more

hostility and toxicity in the host than can be effectively and safely

eliminated, then health is compromised. Animal FLESH just so happens to be

one of those exogenous substances that has been clearly demonstrated to

wreak havoc on the endogenous chemistry, thereby disrupting homeostasis.





In health and fitness,



John Leschinski <muscle@televar.com>











==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: More Southwest US pics on my site...

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:17:55 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



go have a look: http://sunsite.unc.edu/herbmed/pictures/sw.html



113 new ones, added today. And if you know your southwestern US plants try your

hand at the unknowns - it's your route to instant fame, as anyone giving a good

ID will be mentioned on that page (with or without email addy).



Cheers

Henriette



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: leptin and obesity

From: p_iannone@lamg.com

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:16:47 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from p_iannone@lamg.com:



> Comments/thoughts?  How do you, as clinicians and experts, deal with 

> people who may have approached you with overweight problems?  



Number one principle: regular, warm, lowfat meals.

Number two principle: no desserts, sweet drinks, or fruit with meals.



Paul





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mugwort and poison oak

From: John Goude <nature@eee.org>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:46:42 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from John Goude <nature@eee.org>:



David Shaenfield wrote:

> 

> To herb@MyList.net from David Shaenfield <dshaen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>:

> 

> I have a bag of mugwort.

> Is it supposed to be ingested or smoked?

> How much?



According to my study of ethnobotany, the Indian tribes around here

used to crush mugwort and rub down with it before entering poison oak

infested areas to prevent the undesirable results of that human

contact with that plant has.





-- 

<>< John Goude ><>            ham: KE6VUB

JEG Development

Yucaipa, CA 92399-5605

e-mail: nature@eee.org        http://www.eee.org/bus/nature





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: mugwort and poison oak

From: Todd Luger <herb-t@SpiritOne.com>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:25:10 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Todd Luger <herb-t@SpiritOne.com>:



My specialty is Chinese Herbal Medicine.  Mugwort is the main ingredient

in moxibustion, the chinese application of burining herbs directly or

close to the skin.  It is considered an important pain treatment and a

vitality and immunity stimulant.  Research shows that one of the

components is borneol, which may exert some of its effects through

direct smoke inhalation during moxibustion therapy.



Internally, mugwort is considered an important female herb.  It is used

for menstrual cramping, but also for excess uterine bleeding, especially

in older, weaker and chillier patients.





==========

To: "'herb@MyList.net'" <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Regarding Poison Oak, Sumac and Ivy

From: Tera Gram <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:46:40 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Tera Gram <teragram@silcom.com>:



I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding mugwort and poison oak, 

but it seems to me that the use is primarily prophylactic.



If you get into one of these nasty poison oil plants and didn't take 

preventative measures, may I suggest something else?  Jojoba oil.



While I have been fortunate to not have to try it, a friend of mine was 

horribly contaminated with poison oak after an el nino storm flooded his 

property.  The waters rushed down a mountain side gathering up all sorts of 

nasties before it landed on his property. During clean-up, Ian got covered 

with poison oak.  I mentioned this to a friend who gave me a small bottle 

(1 oz) of jojoba oil and told me to tell him to bathe and then apply the 

jojoba oil to his skin.



I went to Ian's house and found the poor guy (who looks a lot like Robert 

Plant... and is very big and tall) sitting in the middle of his living room 

floor in nothing but his undies, whimpering because of the intense itching. 

 As I attempted to quell my giggles from the absurd sight (really  to see 

this guy was funny... suffering or no) I gave him the instructions and went 

home.



About 30 minutes later, I received a phone call promising the wealth of the 

world in reward for this marvelous cure.



- Just thought I'd share.



- Tera





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: ADMIN: was Re: emptiness/beef/vegetarian diet

From: HeK@HETTA.PP.FI (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:13:37 GMT

--------

To herb@MyList.net from HeK@hetta.pp.fi (Henriette Kress):



>>Vegetarian diets are not necessarily more healthful than omnivorous diets.

(snip)

>health. If we want to talk in terms of science alone, vegetarianism and its

>benefits from a health perspective far exceeds the "omnivorous" or

(snip)



The debate of vegetarian versus omnivore has no place on this list - partly

because it's not herbs, and partly because neither side of the discussion will

ever let the other convince him/her, no matter what proof is dragged out by

either.



Henriette, listowner.



--

Henriette Kress             HeK@hetta.pp.fi            Helsinki, Finland

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed FTP: metalab.unc.edu or sunsite.sut.ac.jp

      /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-medicine/

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, plant pictures, neat stuff, archives...





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Why do certain herbs go with certain foods?

From: KaiforChi@aol.com

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 05:54:56 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from KaiforChi@aol.com:



Why is it that, for example, I cannot bear (ok, well, I exaggerate a bit)

tomatoes without basil, or ceviche without cilantro, or potatoes without

rosemary, once I have tasted them with it? I used to do fine without them.

And, I know garlic may not be technically an herb, but I really do not want

chicken soup without it. Is a love for herbs like becoming a chilihead? Can

one get overly addicted to herbs and their flavors? I grab uneaten parsley

garnishes from dining companions' plates before they are whisked away...seems

like a gift they aren't "getting" so I take it...



tia,

kai





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Why do certain herbs go with certain foods?

From: herbs <herbs@i-zone.demon.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:04:15 +0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from herbs <herbs@i-zone.demon.co.uk>:



In article <3ce0a3c8.36612800@aol.com>, KaiforChi@aol.com writes

>Is a love for herbs like becoming a chilihead? Can

>one get overly addicted to herbs and their flavors?



Hi



so often now 'addiction' is used to describe 'really like' - you get

used to a nice combination, without the flavoursome element it just

tastes bland, let's face it potatoes taste bland if they're just boiled

(unless it's new potatoes with mint sauce or with chives and freshly

ground black pepper in sour cream - yum!). Oops, there I go again..



You just get used to what's nice. (IMOHO)

-- 

herbs





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Why do certain herbs go with certain foods?

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:24:51 -0500

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Herbs have a balancing effect on certain foods.  Once you taste the

balanced stuff, you may not be tempted to go back (although there may be 

other herbs that also work and different herbs provide a different needed

balance for other people.)  You may find that hte desired "companion

herb" changes over time for you.  And yes, garlic counts as an herb,

especially on this list!



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.                  

                   Don't close your heart so tightly against life's pain

that you shut out life's blessings.



On Sun, 29 Nov 1998 05:54:56 EST KaiforChi@aol.com writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from KaiforChi@aol.com:

>

>Why is it that, for example, I cannot bear (ok, well, I exaggerate a 

>bit)

>tomatoes without basil, or ceviche without cilantro, or potatoes 

>without

>rosemary, once I have tasted them with it? I used to do fine without 

>them.

>And, I know garlic may not be technically an herb, but I really do not 

>want

>chicken soup without it. Is a love for herbs like becoming a 

>chilihead? Can

>one get overly addicted to herbs and their flavors? I grab uneaten 

>parsley

>garnishes from dining companions' plates before they are whisked 

>away...seems

>like a gift they aren't "getting" so I take it...

>

>tia,

>kai

>



___________________________________________________________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Antibiotics and kids

From: Magda2@aol.com

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:33:45 EST

--------

To herb@MyList.net from Magda2@aol.com:



In a message dated 11/26/98 11:55:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,

creationsgarden@juno.com writes:



<< When you take antibiotics, you kill off your beneficial bacteria in

 addition to any disease-causing bacteria.  Your beneficial bacteria is

 supposed to form a living wallpaper in your intestines, as well as >>

Thanks Karen,

     I am amazed at how frequently antibiotics are administered to small

children, who then end up w/ reoccurring illnesses only to be put back on the

antibiotic.    My 2 nieces continually ingest this stuff and are constantly

sick.     My sis is going to get a print out of the info you

provided.......maybe then she will at least consider the acidophilous.  We are

fortunate that we haven't uased antibiotics in about 10 years.  My kids are

now 15 and 11. The last time was for a tooth abscess that I had many moons

ago.   The homemade kapusta (Polish saurkraut)  must've been a

plus.................  thanks again.      Marianne





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea,Tongue tingling

From: "P.NIghswander" <nighs@king.igs.net>

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:19:13 -0800

--------

To herb@MyList.net from "P.NIghswander" <nighs@king.igs.net>:



Tongue tingling and numbing with the  power of Echinacea, sounds like a

great combo for emergency gum and teeth problems before going to a

dentist.

may times our dental problems happen off hours.

 Can some one comment on this idea?

I got a big tooth ache abscess throb on the long weekend and the dentist

was closed from Thursday until Tuesday. I was up to 2 600mg of motrin

every four hours to kill the pain with my name in at emergency service.I

had used all my tinctures from the last winter but my echinacea was just

starting to flower. I made tea and ate the flowers. My teeth aches have

always been in the eyes and ears

and not the mouth and I had not had this feeling for twenty years but I

knew it was a toothache.

The echinacea totally took away the pain and the dentist emergency

service said it had to be sinuses if the pain went away It was an

abscess but the echinacea took away the pain completely.  Later that

week I made an alcohol tincture with fresh flower centres dried a day or

two without the petals. This is the strongest tincture I've made as of

yet. Just bloomed flowers

no petals. It was stronger than my root tincture. Great for teeth

problems. pn







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: Echinacea,Tongue tingling

From: herbs <herbs@i-zone.demon.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:29:48 +0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from herbs <herbs@i-zone.demon.co.uk>:



In article <3661F28E.5C7AE4D8@king.igs.net>, P.NIghswander

<nighs@king.igs.net> writes

>I was up to 2 600mg of motrin

Sorry to hear of your toothache



What is motrin?



-- 

herbs





==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Bladder infections & Coffee?

From: jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel)

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:50:57 -0800 (PST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):



Paul mentioned that not drinking coffee could aid in a decrease of bladder

infections.  I usually drink one cup of decaf 3-4 times a

week............so I was wondering if it's coffee in general or just the

caffeine?

BTW--I stay away from most caffeinated beverages.  Caffeine doesn't like me.



Thanks, Jamie



QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)



"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

of our friends. "

       - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968) 









==========

To: <herb@MyList.net>

Subject: Asparagus Fern

From: coa-gen@worldnet.att.net

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:37:22 -0000

--------

To herb@MyList.net from coa-gen@worldnet.att.net:



Would Asparagus densiflorus 'Sprengeri' be the same as Prickly Asparagus or

Sperage in "Culpeppers Complete Herbal"?  I can't find anything close to it

in my other herbals.  If so, or if, not does anyone know much about it?

what it can be used for?---if it's not medicinal just let me know!  Jeri

Williams







==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Herbal books for a beginner

From: jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel)

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:34:41 -0800 (PST)

--------

To herb@MyList.net from jkiesel@ups.edu (Jamie Kiesel):



I'm very new to herbs, what they do, drying, tinctures, etc.  I would love

some references on books that are informative and easy to understand.  A

friend recommended Rodale's Encylopedia.

Thanks, Jamie



QUOTE OF THE MONTH (11/02/98)



"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence

of our friends. "

       - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968) 









==========

To: herb@MyList.net

Subject: Re: side effects/toxicity of SJW

From: creationsgarden@juno.com

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 07:22:12 -0400

--------

To herb@MyList.net from creationsgarden@juno.com:



Pat-



I wouldn't worry about sun sensitivity then.  Cattle who eat SJW raw get

sunburned.  Some people get sunburned, usually from excessive (or AIDS)

doses but sometimes with standardized extracts.  Just don't overdo the

sun, cover up and use sunscreen if it is a problem.



Yes it is reversible, usually within a month or less of stopping SJW. 

Changing brands may take care of the problem as well.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

****************************************

Email comments are educational, not diagnostic- seek appropriate medical

care.

"Disease often tells its secrets in a causal parenthesis."               

     William Trotter



On Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Pat  Stephens

<pat@mindspring.com> writes:

>To herb@MyList.net from Pat  Stephens <pat@mindspring.com>:

>

>At 11:17 AM 10/20/98 EDT, you wrote:

>

>May I ask exactly what the symptoms are, and how serious, and how long 

>does

>it take to reverse to normal (I assume it is reversible?) I have been 

>taking

>the routine dosage fro a couple of months, and if I am not 

>psychosensitive

>(grin) my face has a certain rosiness, and my tolerance of cold air is 

>much

>greater. As it does help insomnia, I am reluctant to stop taking it, 

>but...

>

>Pat

>

>>..... The bottom line ...HIV positive individuals should be

>>especially cautious about being out in the sun if they are taking 

>SJW. Does 

>>any one have information on the use of sun screen to decrease SJW

>>photosensitivity? 

>>

>>Regards,

>>

>>Elliot Freeman RPh, Managing Editor

>>Herb Nutrition Newsletter/Midwest Shared Newsletter

>>Member, Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists

>>

>

>

>



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You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

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