

==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: evening primrose

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:46:25 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



If you have sun and a temperate climate, plant them.  Evening primroses

can be invasive however!  Do not plant near buddelia or rust can be a

problem and they won't come to seed.



I don't think flax seeds are better, but of course they are more

available.  Cannibis seeds, Ma tzu jen or ho ma jen, which can be

(legally) ordered from bulk Oriental herb suppliers by the pound, are

probably superior in terms of EFA profile and nutrition, and give you the

fiber and bowel-moistening properties as well.  (And no, they won't get

you high, but since drug tests are exceedingly accurate these days, the

tiny potential contamination from resins could show up in tests if your

employer requires them.)  There is a guaranteed resin trace-free hemp

butter on the market- do a web search if you are interested.

.  

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"Isolating an active constituent from a plant is an affront to nature. It

is like taking the intelligence and leaving the wisdom behind."  - Deepak

Chopra



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: increasing the size of brests

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:52:32 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 01/31/2000 2:24:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

xana.oliveira@clix.pt writes:



<< there is a new product to increase women brests, called Natural Push Up, 

and

 the label indicates lupulus, oats, wheat fibers, rye and natural extracts.

 It belongs to DSPharma. Does anyone heard about this and if it's reliable? I

 would appreciate an answer. >>



First I can't see what hops (Humulus lupulus) oats, wheat fiber rye and 

"natural extracts" will do for you except b\make a good bread or home made 

designer beer.



Second, I haven't heard about that particular "wonder" but have had quite a 

bit of experience with a number of similar products that all offer 

"significant increases" in breast size. a little better than a year ago, as a 

result of a constant stream of requests from clients and customers, I offered 

each of them the opportunity to purchase - at cost - some of  these products 

that are on the market just to see if any of them worked as claimed.  My 

criteria was quite simple - they had to be predominantly herbal based, they 

had to be "different" in terms of ingredient formulation - and they had to 

contain nothing that was otherwise harmful or toxic.  Granted it was not a 

"scientific" study, but each of the women involved felt that their appearance 

would be improved by some form of "natural" breast enhancement.   I purchased 

a six month supply of each of three products we went with  - which will go 

unidentified for obvious reasons - and wanted to also get some "Wonder 

Breast" (see wonderbreast.com) which is a Swiss based company that pushes its 

products on line and in certain teen mags.  They are identified specifically 

because they refused to return calls, e-mail and snail mail on product 

ingredients - product safety  and/or to offer their products on a discounted 

basis, despite it being quite clear that they would have a good number of new 

customers if they would answer ANYTHING.  



Bottom line on each of the products was that they had a minimal TEMPORARY 

benefit that disappeared within a week of stopping.  Long term permanent 

benefit was not realized.  The principal "active" ingredient was "sabal 

fruit" or as we know it, saw palmetto berry which has been shown to increase 

the fluid retained by the female breast (an is not bad for other parts of the 

body either).  Some of the other ingredients that were included were wild 

yam, fenugreek seed, fennel - and fennel seed, blessed thistle, all of which 

can also increase breast fluid retention,  and some which made absolutely no 

sense whatsoever - at least to this aging mind.  



While they had differing initial "benefits", they ALL had the same end 

result.  Within a week or two of stopping, the subject was back to normal or 

actually a little worse off since they were "firmer" before starting and once 

the fluid stimulating herbs were stopped, the areas that had been engorged 

with fluid were "deflated" and what was at one time firm was now less than 

that.  



The thing to be aware of is that the "development" of a woman's breast is 

stimulated by the pituitary gland during the period starting with puberty and 

goes on for a short while after that.  Once this has been discontinued or 

stopped through either the "natural" process" of growth or through some 

physiological disorder during that time period,  there is nothing known to 

man, to this point, that will restart or trigger new growth.  Despite what 

the hype says or promises made BY ANY OF THESE PRODUCTS, about adding "new 

glands" or increasing the size of what is already there, IT JUST AINT SO!    

If there was a combination of herbs that would work, I would have come up 

with it or something close to it that could have been refined during the 

period that these women were trying to achieve a "fuller figure".  _ AND I 

would be selling a ton of the stuff long distance from the deck of my boat at 

anchorage off St. Martin.  They (the different companies selling the "hope" 

of larger breasts) all give you the caution that "this may not work for 

everyone and 'results may differ from individual to individual," so that when 

you buy the stuff at $40-125.00 (US),  you don't scream for your money back 

because you are just one of the unfortunate "few" that it doesn't work for.  

In fact, you are one of the 99.5% that IT WILL NOT HELP (no basis for this 

figure other than my own intuitive sense and the results or lack thereof I 

saw first hand)  



Bottom line here is this - if you want to see if something might work - get a 

half pound of powdered saw palmetto, a cap machine, and a bag of capsules and 

make a bunch of capsules - maybe add some fenugreek and milk thistle and 

fennel seed but keep the saw palmetto at least 50% of the blend and try it 

yourself.  Tincture a little yourself or make a strong tea with some ginger 

and rub the stuff onto your breasts at the same time you are taking 4-6 caps 

a day and see what happens.  Just know that the day you start, the reversal 

process will bring you back to where you were.



Hope this saves someone some unnecessary expense.

Peter 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: increasing the size of brests

From: "xana.oliveira" <xana.oliveira@clix.pt>

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:21:25 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by xana.oliveira <xana.oliveira@clix.pt> :



Hello,

there is a new product to increase women brests, called Natural Push Up, and

the label indicates lupulus, oats, wheat fibers, rye and natural extracts.

It belongs to DSPharma. Does anyone heard about this and if it's reliable? I

would appreciate an answer.

Sandra Oliveira Almeida

xana.oliveira@clix.pt

tm. 934284711

Seixal-Portugal



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: increasing the size of brests

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:03:14 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Peter;

amen to all you said about the herbs to "temporarily" increase the breast 

size.

Physiologically, there is nothing more we can do to alter what our genes have 

dictated for us.  Exercising the pectoral muscles in particular will only 

give the illusion of larger breasts.  Most women experience a slight increase 

at that premenstrual time; again, due to fluid retention that I believe you 

referred to.

About 3 years ago, I was nursing a preemie, and needed all the help I could 

use.  

I consulted a lactation consultant (25 years experience) who always used 

fennugreek with much success on her clientele.  well, to make a long story 

short, I also found a company who made a tincture that contained fennugreek, 

fennel, milk thistle, and goat's rue.  Sorry for the english - but boy, did 

them things get big! Lotta milk, but I also lost that when I stopped taking 

the tincture.

So, sorry, just be happy with what the good Lord gave you.  A french doctor I 

worked with once said "anything over a champagne glassful is a waste anyway".

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Are we losing St. John's wort?

From: Kevin Chisholm <kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:28:47 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by kchishol@fox.nstn.ca :



Tsadi@aol.com wrote:

> 

> Sent to the herblist by tsadi@aol.com :

> 

..del..

> 

> << I'm sure we will be next... our drug companies love to make money. >>

> 

> yes, they will try to regulate herbs, in part because some are abused, and in

>...del...

> go ahead, let 'em try to stop us! i ain't scared! how silly!

> 

Dear Tsadi



It is a bit more difficult to stop people from growing their own herbs,

but it can be readily done...lookit the success had with the anti-pot

laws. Certainly, private pot is grown, but at significant threat to the

grower.



The major danger as I see it would be to control the commercial sale of

such herbs.....you could grow them for your own personal use, but you

could not sell them, and you could not buy them EXCEPT through a drug

company channel. Here in Nova Scotia, the Pharmacies even took a run at

requiring herbal remedies to be sold through a Pharmacy, but did not

succeed. 



It is amazing how a few well placed Laws and Regulations could change

things, and make it very difficult to get such herbal remedies. 



Kindest regards,



Kevin Chisholm



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Are we losing St. John's wort?

From: "Harkins" <harkins@sky1.net>

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:14:20 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by harkins <harkins@sky1.net> :



I just wrote an article on this -- and Comdex, which everyone thinks is old

news is not dead, despite what you might have been told. They're just

waiting for the right opportunity. And with countries like Norway and

Germany voluntarily accepting all their regulations... it's only a matter of

time before it becomes a real problem for us.



Herbalists have been doing it their way for a long time, but if herbs are

going to become a real threat to the drug industry, the best protection we

can adopt is education right now -- better educated consumers and users.



My hat's off to Canada for forcing their delegate to walk away from the

whole thing.



Susan

>

> It is amazing how a few well placed Laws and Regulations could change

> things, and make it very difficult to get such herbal remedies.

>

> Kindest regards,

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: enlarged spleen

From: "xana.oliveira" <xana.oliveira@clix.pt>

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:29:13 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by xana.oliveira <xana.oliveira@clix.pt> :



Hello,

my daughert's doctor told her she had her spleen enlarged. she is suffering

of malt fever (brucelosis), and perhaps due to this, she has this problem

besides very high fever. is there any herb that could help in both cases,

the enlargement of her spleen and malt fever? thanks for any help.

Sandra Oliveira Almeida

xana.oliveira@clix.pt

tm. 934284711

Seixal-Portugal



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: MS

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:57:28 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 01/31/2000 11:54:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

jans@rnet.com writes:



<< I have been recently diagnosed with MS. Are there herbs to treat MS? Any

 course of action to take?

   Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 TIA,

 Jan S. >>



Jan,



Before letting anyone do anything or before taking anything of either a 

prescription or herbal nature, have a hair analysis or 24 hour provocative 

urine analysis to determine heavy metal load on a cellular level.  Insist on 

it and if the MD won't do it - find one that will.  There are a number of 

studies that prove rather conclusively that one of the many manifestations of 

mercury/toxic metal poisoning is MS.  Now there ARE other things that will 

cause one to develop MS, but its better to find out what the possible genesis 

of your problem is before letting someone treat you with a protocol that is 

thoroughly inappropriate and could actually hasten the development of the 

disorder.  Do the hair analysis and then get back to me off list with the 

results for some suggestions.

peter 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: R: Are we losing St. John's wort?

From: "marco valussi" <marcobabi@libero.it>

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:02:25 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Marco Valussi <marcobabi@libero.it> :



It seems that the move to ban Hypericum is spreading, unfortunately.  An

italian ministerial document has just been issued that states that from now

on it will not be possible to sell freely Hypericum if the daily dose is

more than 7 mg of standardisec (0.3% hypericine) dry extr./die.  It seems to

me a move towards ban.



Marco



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Diabetic info

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 04:32:13 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



John,



I share your fear of Dr.s. (iatrophobia?).  I seem to always have bad luck, at

least since 1982.  Most of them would likely have you on prescription drugs, and

they might say herbal remedies are nonsense, quackery, or "unproven" (a favorite

word).



I have no experience in herbal treatment for diabetes but believe bilberry

leaves have been used, among other herbs: probably not very strong.  John Lust's

Herb Book lists some herbs for diabetes, but I am reluctant to quote out of

context.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Raspberry

From: "gardenthyme~lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:05:32 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by gardenthyme~lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows the best kind of Raspberry plant

for the purpose of using the leaves for a tea to help with female

problems.  There are quite a few different varieties in the seed

catalog, and I would like to grow the proper kind for this use.

Thanks,

Dee



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Raspberry

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:44:53 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



dee;

i believe it is Rubus idaeus that you are looking for in a raspberry plant.

diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Herbal regulations

From: "gardenthyme~lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:10:15 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by gardenthyme~lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



This is a scary thought...and what is scarier is I believe it is

happening.  In the past two weeks the local news has had two different

segments on how dangerous herbal suppliments are (one was on weight

loss, and the other was on another herb)and there was also an article

in the paper about the dangers of herbal supplements.  They make it

hard to help people realize the benefits of so many herbs, because

people then tend to group herbs in their minds as "bad"and are less

receiptive to them.

Dee



||

|<< I'm sure we will be next... our drug companies love to make money.

>>

|

|yes, they will try to regulate herbs, in part because some are

abused, and in

|larger part, because there's money to be made... but crisis implies

|opportunity, as the saying goes. think about it... an economic power

|attempting to thwart the distribution of an herb to a generation of

people,

|many of whom spent a good part of their early adulthood refining the

|techniques for cultivating and distributing other contraband "herbs".

go

|ahead, let 'em try to stop us! i ain't scared! how silly!



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Herbal regulations

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:32:07 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/1/00 12:27:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

dblan@netusa1.net writes:



<< This is a scary thought...and what is scarier is I believe it is

 happening.  In the past two weeks the local news has had two different

 segments on how dangerous herbal suppliments are (one was on weight

 loss, and the other was on another herb)and there was also an article

 in the paper about the dangers of herbal supplements.  They make it

 hard to help people realize the benefits of so many herbs, because

 people then tend to group herbs in their minds as "bad"and are less

 receiptive to them.

 Dee

  >>



Hi Dee -



Actually if you work in a provider field (such as me in the pharmacy) you see 

a lot of scary mixing and matching from people who are just uneducated about 

how herbs work, and how to use them, and what to check for.  I think it's 

education we should go for because some herbs can be very dangerous and they 

are respected medicines.  Not that I'm for regulation mind you, but a 

movement about education.  There are no bad herbs...just unwise consumers.



In health -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: best herbal medicine guides

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:51:50 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Can anyone give me any name(s) of some of the best reference material out 

there?  There are so many to choose from, many being garden variety (no pun 

intended) or weekend authors.  I have heard some suggest Dr. Michael Murray, 

Hobbs, or Duke. Any pros or cons?  I have many books from which to choose 

from; but would like to know if there is one book that's sort of like a 

"bible".  And, are there any monthly newsletters/magazines that are better 

than others?  Any author or book to absolutely stay away from?

thanks

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best herbal medicine guides

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 06:46:48 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



AWoehlke@aol.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>Can anyone give me any name(s) of some of the best reference material out 

>there?  There are so many to choose from, many being garden variety (no pun 

>intended) or weekend authors.  I have heard some suggest Dr. Michael Murray, 

>Hobbs, or Duke. Any pros or cons?  I have many books from which to choose 

>from; but would like to know if there is one book that's sort of like a 

>"bible".  And, are there any monthly newsletters/magazines that are better 

>than others?  Any author or book to absolutely stay away from?



Stay away from Murray, Duke, and Tyler - none of them practice herbal medicine,

they all just repeat previous authors' writings without adding much of their own

experience to the blend.



Check the medicinal herbfaq, part 7 - URL:

http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed/mediher7.html - it's got a list of good books,

list of good periodicals, and a list of good programs, among other things.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal Regulations--Mary

From: "Dan & Cindy Lee" <akalo@discoverynet.com>

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:56:42 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Cindy Lee <akalo@discoverynet.com> :



>>



Hi Dee -



Actually if you work in a provider field (such as me in the pharmacy) you

see

a lot of scary mixing and matching from people who are just uneducated about

how herbs work, and how to use them, and what to check for.  I think it's

education we should go for because some herbs can be very dangerous and they

are respected medicines.  Not that I'm for regulation mind you, but a

movement about education.  There are no bad herbs...just unwise consumers.



In health -

Mary



---

Mary,



I know  asking you to make a list of herbs that should not be mixed or taken

together would be too time consuming, but what herbs for instance are yout

alking about,  maybe a brief few would not be to many, I am such as what you

mentioned, just a consumer and i know for a fact that I don't know near

enough to know what not to mix or what to mix.



thanks



cindy



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:Heavy metals, was MS

From: Ron Tay <opendoor@pacbell.net>

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:31:52 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by opendoor@pacbell.net :



NEHrbSup@aol.com wrote:



> There are a number of

> studies that prove rather conclusively that one of the many manifestations of

> mercury/toxic metal poisoning is MS.  Now there ARE other things that will

> cause one to develop MS, but its better to find out what the possible genesis

> of your problem is before letting someone treat you with a protocol that is

> thoroughly inappropriate and could actually hasten the development of the

> disorder.  Do the hair analysis and then get back to me off list with the

> results for some suggestions.

> peter



Suppose one wants to flush out any possible concentrations of heavy metals in

their bodies, without doing a hair analysis... do you, or does anyone else, have

suggestions, other than, say, cilantro??



Ron



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:37:25 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/01/2000 8:36:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

opendoor@pacbell.net writes:



<< Suppose one wants to flush out any possible concentrations of heavy metals 

in

 their bodies, without doing a hair analysis... do you, or does anyone else, 

have

 suggestions, other than, say, cilantro?? >>



Ron,



My question to you is why would you want to take this approach??  Since there 

are different things that will work on different metals, it is always good to 

find out just what it is that is a problem - if anything - before going 

blindly down a path that you might not need to travel.   It is somewhat like 

treating yourself for a "disease" - pick one - any one - when you get a 

headache.  I have yet to see anyone that doesn't have some level of some 

metal  - the trouble is that without the test it is impossible to tell what 

specific metal you are looking at.  Mercury, cadmium and lead can all act 

similar when it involves cognitive function and completely differently when 

an organ is involved.  My advice is to get a test if you think yo might have 

a toxicity problem and then use the results to determine what you are going 

to use to clean the system out.

peter  



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: Ron Tay <opendoor@pacbell.net>

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:17:06 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by opendoor@pacbell.net :



> << Suppose one wants to flush out any possible concentrations of heavy metals

> in

>  their bodies, without doing a hair analysis... do you, or does anyone else,

> have

>  suggestions, other than, say, cilantro?? >>

>

> Ron,

>

> My question to you is why would you want to take this approach??  Since there

> are different things that will work on different metals, it is always good to

> find out just what it is that is a problem - if anything - before going

> blindly down a path that you might not need to travel.

> peter

>

>



I am interested in this approach because we are continually exposed to so many

toxic chemicals, including heavy metals. Especially living here in Los Angeles...

there are heavy metals in car and truck exhaust, for example, and in city

water... I don't really want to let them build up to the point I get sick, and

then have to rebuild my body. I would rather take some kind of detoxifying

measures while I'm living, and maybe avoid the situation where you're not REALLY

sick, but just sick enough where you don't feel right, but you can't pin it down,

so you live with it. See my point?



Ron



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: Kevin Chisholm <kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:12:12 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by kchishol@fox.nstn.ca :



 Dear Ray

 

 Your point is well taken. One concern I have is "sub-clinical" mercury

 poisoning from amalgam in dental fillings.

 

 Would anyone know if there is, for example, a "safe" dose of something

 like cilantro that one could take, "just to be sure" that such

 "sub-clinical" mercury build-ups are eliminated, without the danger of

 triggering possible undesirable side effects?

 

 I have heard that there can be significant levels of toxic metals tied

 up in the body in a "safe" manner, where they are not doing harm, and

 that too much of the "toxic metal eliminators" can liberate these

 tied-up metals to the point that they reach serious levels before they

 are voided.

 

 Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated.

 

 Thanks.

 

 Kevin Chisholm

 

> Ron Tay wrote:

...del...

> > I am interested in this approach because we are continually exposed to so many

> > toxic chemicals, including heavy metals. Especially living here in Los Angeles...

> > there are heavy metals in car and truck exhaust, for example, and in city

> > water... I don't really want to let them build up to the point I get sick, and

> > then have to rebuild my body. I would rather take some kind of detoxifying

> > measures while I'm living, and maybe avoid the situation where you're not REALLY

> > sick, but just sick enough where you don't feel right, but you can't pin it down,

> > so you live with it. See my point?

> >



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 06:47:55 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Kevin Chisholm <kchishol@fox.nstn.ca> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



> Your point is well taken. One concern I have is "sub-clinical" mercury

> poisoning from amalgam in dental fillings.



Listmembers: you may advise on how to use herbs to remove mercury from the human

body. However, the full amalgam debate is OFF-topic to this list.



Henriette, listowner



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:27:39 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/03/2000 3:37:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

opendoor@pacbell.net writes:



<< I am interested in this approach because we are continually exposed to so 

many

 toxic chemicals, including heavy metals. Especially living here in Los 

Angeles...

 there are heavy metals in car and truck exhaust, for example, and in city

 water... I don't really want to let them build up to the point I get sick, 

and

 then have to rebuild my body. I would rather take some kind of detoxifying

 measures while I'm living, and maybe avoid the situation where you're not 

REALLY

 sick, but just sick enough where you don't feel right, but you can't pin it 

down,

 so you live with it. See my point?

  >>



Which IS my point exactly.  With a thousand environmental toxins out there of 

which maybe 20 are in the heavy metal category and 13-16 are generally tested 

for because of their prevalence, when you START to feel that way  - or even 

before you do just so you can establish a "baseline",  you should KNOW what 

you are dealing with before throwing things at it to fix it.  Sort of the old 

adage - if it aint broke - why fix it.



  Because of the staggering number of things that can poison you and the 

significant differences between detox protocols depending on whether it is 

organic or inorganic - metal or not etc., I just can't understand why one 

would not want to get an accurate picture of what is going on inside of 

themselves before throwing the kitchen sink at it.  With all the discussion 

on this list relative to how to cleanse the liver using things like milk 

thistle and burdock, it should be clear that this is where you should start 

if what you are really trying to do is something on a prophylactic basis.  Do 

some reading, - Any of the good herbals have at least one formula for liver 

detox that will not only help clean you out but will also balance the 

hormonal changes that might be associated with all of a sudden having a liver 

and endocrine system that is functioning better than it was before.  The 

caution that goes with this is that while all "detoxing" should be good, if 

you have a ton of some bad heavy metal that just happens to be dislodged by 

what you do and not promptly eliminated, it can be redeposited elsewhere 

which can bring on a whole set of new problems or make the ones you have 

already much worse.  I really don't want to paint a picture of gloom and 

doom, but the worst case scenarios are the ones that WILL visit you if you 

are not prepared.  And worse case, particularly with things like mercury, 

lead, cadmium etc, is not a place you want to go in this lifetime.  People 

wind up REALLY messed up - sometimes even after thinking they were getting 

competent help from well intentioned practitioners who "knew a little" about 

detox and chelation.  Knowing all you can in advance of initiating a detox 

program, to me, just makes more sense than to spend some hard earned dollars 

on something you don't need.  To my way of thinking the cost of a hair 

analysis or provocative urine analysis is simply a very good investment in 

your health. And once you know you can fashion a "detox regimen" to suite 

your individual needs.  



peter



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:48:26 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/03/2000 4:16:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

kchishol@fox.nstn.ca writes:



<< Would anyone know if there is, for example, a "safe" dose of something

  like cilantro that one could take, "just to be sure" that such

  "sub-clinical" mercury build-ups are eliminated, without the danger of

  triggering possible undesirable side effects?

  

  I have heard that there can be significant levels of toxic metals tied

  up in the body in a "safe" manner, where they are not doing harm, and

  that too much of the "toxic metal eliminators" can liberate these

  tied-up metals to the point that they reach serious levels before they

  are voided. >>



I'll answer these in reverse I think.  Relative to the issue of "safe" 

binding of toxic metals, and I am trying here to be sensitive, but repeat 

that to yourself a couple of times and ask if what other people have told you 

or you have read makes sense.   Asked another way. - when is a toxin - NOT a 

TOXIN.  if you have toxic metals deposited in your body tissue they ARE 

affecting you.  PERIOD.  Perhaps not in a manner that you can put a finger on 

or one that is immediately evident, but they ARE affecting you in ways that 

you can't even begin to imagine.  The body is a wonderful thing, a living 

machine, that has a zillion receptors in all of its cells.  Each of these 

receptors is designed to receive one nutrient or compound that will trigger 

an action or reaction and when they are all clean and doing their job, 

everything works great.  But as we go along we pick up these "toxins" of a 

thousand different shades and hues and they each have the unique ability to 

mimic one or more of the substances that are supposed to be plugged into our 

cellular receptors.  Once they find a new "home" they stay and they prevent 

the cells they are occupying from doing its proper job in the larger picture. 

 Some you can get rid of easily, some, like metals and some of the more 

volatile hydrocarbons, are very difficult to dislodge depending on where they 

have taken up residence.  AS you go on, depending on exposure, you can wind 

up having all sorts of problems that "defy rational explanation" because it 

is simply an aggregation of a lot of smaller different problems finally 

reaching a "critical" point.  So, at least for me, there is NO safe level of 

toxins bound or not - 



Now, on the issue of metal elimination and safe "sub-clinical" level 

elimination, from my reading and observation (part of which was on self)  

cilantro AND chlorella used in combination do a really good job of keeping 

the stuff moving and not getting redeposited.  Making a pesto sauce or 

putting cilantro in soup once a week and taking chlorella for the next day 

will work nice and slowly -  but without knowing levels and metals - it would 

be impossible and a bit on the irresponsible side to say do this and this for 

that. 

peter 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: Kevin Chisholm <kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by kchishol@fox.nstn.ca :



Dear Peter



NEHrbSup@aol.com wrote:

> 

> Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :

> 

>...del...

  Asked another way. - when is a toxin - NOT a

> TOXIN.  if you have toxic metals deposited in your body tissue they ARE

> affecting you.  PERIOD. 



A good example of when a "toxin is not a toxin" is as follows:

Barium, in the form of barium chloride, is a deadly poison. Barium, in

the form of barium sulphate, is safe and non-toxic. Probably many people

on this list have had a stomach or bowel X-Ray, where they consumed

"barium". The simple reason why one form of barium is deadly, and the

other is safe is that barium sulphate is extremely insoluble, and is

unavailable to the body under the conditions to which it is exposed in

the digestive system.



It is thus very possible to have toxic elements in the body, BUT to have

them in a state where they are "unavailable" to the body.



 Perhaps not in a manner that you can put a finger on

> or one that is immediately evident, but they ARE affecting you in ways that

> you can't even begin to imagine. 



There is no question that toxic heavy metals can cause serious problems. 



 The body is a wonderful thing, a living

> machine, that has a zillion receptors in all of its cells.Each of these

> receptors is designed to receive one nutrient or compound that will trigger

> an action or reaction and when they are all clean and doing their job,

> everything works great.



If the receptor sites are of a nature that they will accept a specific

compound like barium chloride, they cannot accept barium sulphate which

has a different structure.



  But as we go along we pick up these "toxins" of a

> thousand different shades and hues and they each have the unique ability to

> mimic one or more of the substances that are supposed to be plugged into our

> cellular receptors.



If there are receptors which can accept barium sulphate in a manner

which leads to a harmful or undesirable condition, then barium sulphate

is indeed "toxic". The widespread use of barium sulphate, and the lack

of any apparent concern for its use would suggest that barium in the

body is not toxic, when in the sulphate form.



  Once they find a new "home" they stay and they prevent

> the cells they are occupying from doing its proper job in the larger picture.

>  Some you can get rid of easily, some, like metals and some of the more

> volatile hydrocarbons, are very difficult to dislodge depending on where they

> have taken up residence.  AS you go on, depending on exposure, you can wind

> up having all sorts of problems that "defy rational explanation" because it

> is simply an aggregation of a lot of smaller different problems finally

> reaching a "critical" point.  So, at least for me, there is NO safe level of

> toxins bound or not -



I agree fully with you on the importance of toxic heavy metals. I can

also agree with you that even very low levels of "available" toxic heavy

metals are bad. However, I would respectfully suggest that toxic heavy

metals which are "bound" or "unavailable" are not a significant health

hazard.

> 

> Now, on the issue of metal elimination and safe "sub-clinical" level

> elimination, from my reading and observation (part of which was on self)

> cilantro AND chlorella used in combination do a really good job of keeping

> the stuff moving and not getting redeposited.  Making a pesto sauce or

> putting cilantro in soup once a week and taking chlorella for the next day

> will work nice and slowly -  but without knowing levels and metals - it would

> be impossible and a bit on the irresponsible side to say do this and this for

> that.



This is getting to the heart of the matter. I certainly apreciate your

Professional caution. Given that I have no "apparent" or "clinical"

symptoms of toxic metal problems, is there a safe procedure where I

could "ramp up" on a cilantro/chlorella treatment, starting at a low

level, and over a period of weeks (or months) increase the dosage, as

residual heavy metal content was reduced?



Thanks very much.



Kevin Chisholm



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: "gardenthyme~lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:32:56 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by gardenthyme~lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



This was posted on the list some time ago, seems there's an interest,

so I'm reposting it, with thanks to the author.

--|Subj: NUTR: Heavy Metals Detoxification - Chelation

Source: Alternatives

Date: June 1998, pages 91 - 92

Publisher: Mountain Home Publishing

ISSN: 0893-5025

Author: David G. Williams, DC

Title: The Poor Man's Chelation Therapy



There's nothing I like more than learning about inexpensive,

common herbs or spices that exhibit unusual healing properties.

Historically, the use of herbs and spices in cooking evolved as a

method to

preserve foods and make them safer to store and eat. While we've grown

accustomed to using these items to enhanced or accentuate flavors of

food,

researchers continue to discover that they have much more to offer

than just good taste. A recent example involves the work of Dr.

Yoshiaki

Omura.



Dr. Omura recently informed us that he discovered almost by

accident, that the leaves of the coriander plant can accelerate the

excretion of mercury, lead and aluminum from the body. He had been

treating several patients for an eye infection called trachoma

(granular conjunctivitis), which is caused by the micro-organism

Chlamydia trachomatis. Following the standard treatment with

antibiotics. Dr. Omura found that the patients' symptoms would clear

up initially, then recur within a few month. He experienced similar

difficulties in treating viral related problems like Herpes Simplex

types I & II and Cytomegalovirus infection.



Cilantro Helps Flush Out Heavy Metals



After taking a closer look, Dr. Omura found those organisms seemed

to hide and flourish in area of the body where there were

concentrations of heavy metals like mercury, lead and aluminum.

Somehow the organicism were able to use the toxic metals to

protect themselves from the antibiotics.



It just so happens that while he was testing for those

metals, Dr. Omura noticed the mercury level in the urine increased

after one

consumed a healthy serving of Vietnamese soup. The soup contains

Chinese parsley, or it is better known in this country, cilantro.

(Some of

you may also know it as coriander, since it comes form the leaves of

the

coriander plant.)



Further testing revealed that eating cilantro also increased

urinary excretion of lead and aluminum. And when cilantro was used

concurrently with antibiotics or natural anti-viral agents and/ or

fatty acids like EPA with D.A., the above infection could be

eliminated for good. (Acupnct Electrother Res. 95:20 (3-4): 195-229.)



Dr. Omura has made a remarkable discovery. He's found a novel

technique which greatly increases our ability to clear up recurring

infections

both viral and bacterial. And perhaps more exciting, he's discovered

an inexpensive, easy way to remove (or "chelate") toxic metals from

the

nervous system and body tissue - one that anybody can use.



This is Great News for Amalgam Sufferers



Chelation therapy using chemicals like EDTA has long been

used to help remove these heavy metals, but cilantro is the only

natural

substance I'M aware of that has demonstrated this ability. This will

become

news for people suffering from the ill effect of amalgam dental

fillings,

which contains approximately 50% mercury.



Dr. Omura recently performed another study in which three

amalgam filling where removed from an individual using all of the

precautions available to prevent absorption of the mercury from the

amalgam.

Even with strong air and water suction, water rinses, and a rubber

dental

dam, significant amounts of mercury were later found in the

individual's lungs, kidneys,, endocrine organs, liver and heart. There

was no

mercury in these tissue prior to the amalgam removal.



Remarkably, without the help of any chelation agents, cilantro was

able to remove the mercury in two to three weeks. (Acupunct

Electrother

Res 96;21 (2): 133-60.)



Since some of the patients didn't like the taste of fresh

cilantro, Dr. Omura had a pharmaceutical company create a 100 mg

cilantro tablet. In the above dental study, one tablet was taken four

times a

day. As of yet, I haven't been able to find a tested commercial tablet

of

cilantro. It is believed that the active component in cilantro are

easily destroyed during processing. For this reason, I recommend

sticking to fresh herb. It can be eaten raw in soup or salad, on

tacos,

or as garnish with practically any dish.



Recipe for Cilantro Pesto (Make That "Chelation Pesto")



I would think it should also work if the cilantro were

juiced, but perhaps the easiest and tastiest way to use the herb would

be as

the main ingredient in a home made pesto sauce. You can start with the

basic recipe below and add other nuts and spices to suite your taste.



Cilantro Pesto

1 clove of garlic

1/2 cup of almonds, cashews, or other nuts

1 cup packed fresh cilantro leaves

2 tablespoons lemon juice

6 tablespoons olive oil



Put the cilantro and olive oil in blender and process until the

cilantro is chopped. Add the rest of the ingredients and process to a

lumpy

past. (You may need to add a touch of hot water and scrape the sides

of

the blender.) You can change the consistency by altering the amount of

olive oil and lemon juice, but keep the 3:1 ratio of oil to juice. (If

freezes well, so you can make several batches at once.)



In light of the ever-worsening quality of our water and soil

and the widespread use of metals in everyday items like deodorant and

cans, I would seriously suspect that all of us have some toxic metals

in our

body. And unless they are carried out by a chelating agent, things

like lead, aluminum and mercury remain in the body forever. Besides

associated with arthritic condition, depression, muscle pain and

weakness, memory loss and deterioration, and maybe even Alzheimer's

disease.



Summer's here and cilantro is readily available across the

country. It is very popular herb in Mexican cooking, and due to

their large Mexican populations is easy to find anywhere from

Texas to California. In other areas, you may need to visit an Oriental

market

or specialty supermarket, (Remember, it's also called Chinese

parsley.)



I would highly recommend that you take advantage of this

"poor man's chelation treatment". I'm in the process of doing it now

my

shelf and intend to do so at least once or twice a year from now on.

All it

takes is adding fresh cilantro to your everyday foods or eating a

couple

teaspoons of cilantro pesto a day for two or three weeks; either

will give the dose Dr. Omura used in his research. Judging by the

price

around here, that means you'd be spending less than a dollar for two

weeks of cleansing! Of course, if you really don't like cilantro,

you can always spend a thousands times that much on a series of

intravenous chelation treatments...

______________________________________________________________________

___



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: David <orchlogw@kootenay.com>

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 15:35:34 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by orchlogw@kootenay.com :



> It is believed that the active component in cilantro are

> easily destroyed during processing. For this reason, I recommend

> sticking to fresh herb.



gardenthyme~lady



So, what is (are) the active components re heavy metals in cilantro?



David



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals, was MS

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:39:22 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/04/2000 9:46:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

kchishol@fox.nstn.ca writes:



<< This is getting to the heart of the matter. I certainly apreciate your

 Professional caution. Given that I have no "apparent" or "clinical"

 symptoms of toxic metal problems, is there a safe procedure where I

 could "ramp up" on a cilantro/chlorella treatment, starting at a low

 level, and over a period of weeks (or months) increase the dosage, as

 residual heavy metal content was reduced? >>



Kevin, 



Because of Henriette's admonition on the "amalgam discussion"  I won't 

respond to some of the other points you raised, but will comment on your 

final question. 



Why "ramp up".  Since cilantro is a known chelator, get yourself some good 

quality herb from a reputable source,  powder it (because you won't find it 

powdered from most sources), put it in some "00" caps and just start taking 

it a couple of caps a day as part of your daily regimen and keep it up for 6 

months or so.  If you have a problem and are unaware of it, you will begin a 

slow process of chelation that shoudl work just fine.  Since I have yet to 

see a single hair analysis that does not show some level of metals that 

cilantro will get rid of, chances are you got some just not a toxic level so 

this kind of approach can only serve to help you in the long run.  Just use 

common sense in terms of dosing, knowing that this, like any herb, does have 

its "other" uses.   It does have a stimulating effect on the digestive system 

bringing more juices to the stomach so it would probably be a good idea to 

take the stuff a half hour before meals - or get ready to be hungry a lot.



Regards,

peter  



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: MCS and toxins??

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:30:57 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



Both South American Herbs, you must be able to find them listed in

America if they are available in Australia.

Judith Thamm.

----- Original Message -----

From: Thomas Mueller <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

To: <herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu>

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 4:37 PM

Subject: Re: MCS and toxins??



> Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :

>

> >

> If one can't find Smilax officinalis (where from?), can one use

Jamaican

> sarsaparilla (Smilax ornata) or Mexican sarsaparilla (S.

aristolochiaefolia)?

> I believe aroma/flavor is mild, and the cut/slivered root is fluffy,

so you

> would need to use a fairly large volume?  Nothing like the

sarsaparilla soda I

> had many years ago as a child and remember only vaguely.



No, smilax officinalis only.



>

> I never heard of the other herb you mentioned Phyllanthus nuri [or

Quebra pedra].

> I wouldn't have any idea where to find that.



Used in Germany a lot.



>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: hernia-slipped disc

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:37:40 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



>

> I believe slipped disc/spinal troubles are the specialty of

chiropractic?  First

> thing is to put the slipped disc back in place.

>

Holding your weight on your arms for 5 seconds twice a day for a week

then 3 times a day for the next week and so on, puts a disc back in

place.  I have an Australian invented piece of equipment with arm

rests that you support your weight on and allow the body to dangle for

5 seconds at a time.  My pesky disc usually goes back in less than a

week.



As well, you need to sleep on your back with a rolled up towel [or

pillow] under your knees and sleep on your back.  This is essential as

this takes the pressure off your back.  If you turn on your side the

towel/pillow must go between the knees so there is no dragging strain

from the upper knee.



Regards,

Judith Thamm.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: heavy metals

From: "plantpeople" <plantpeople@triton.net>

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:01:10 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by plantpeople@triton.net :



> Suppose one wants to flush out any possible concentrations of heavy metals

in

> their bodies, without doing a hair analysis... do you, or does anyone

else, have

> suggestions, other than, say, cilantro??

>

> Ron



Herbs with soluble gummy fiber such as slippery elm, marshmallow; also irish

moss, gigartina, iridea - seaweed sources of carageneenan, and food such as

barley, oatmeal.  Look for that "slimacous" quality

Also foods high in pectin - apples, carrots, parsnips, etc.

JoyceW



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: heavy metals

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:49:21 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Karen,



You mention the lack of confirmation that kom(taboo) contains usnic acid and

glucuronic acid, but might Usnea (lichen) contain one or both of these chemical

constituents?  Otherwise, how does usnic acid get its name?  Would usnea or any

other lichen be useful against heavy metals or the nonmetallic benzol?



I trust that kombu (Japanese seaweed) is not related to anything taboo on this

list.  Would kombu and wakame (another Japanese/Oriental seaweed) help clear

heavy metals?



Thomas Mueller



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: heavy metals

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:15:01 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:49:21 -0500 (EST), tmueller@bluegrass.net wrote to

herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>You mention the lack of confirmation that kom(taboo) contains usnic acid and

>glucuronic acid, but might Usnea (lichen) contain one or both of these chemical

>constituents?  



Usnea is a source of usnic acid.



>I trust that kombu (Japanese seaweed) is not related to anything taboo on this

>list.  



It is not.



>Would kombu and wakame (another Japanese/Oriental seaweed) help clear

>heavy metals?



Heh. They're salty, making you drink more, and thus making you pee more.

For clearing out stuff I'd use liver and kidney stimulants.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal	Regulations--...

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:39:13 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/2/00 1:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

akalo@discoverynet.com writes:



<< I know  asking you to make a list of herbs that should not be mixed or 

taken

 together would be too time consuming, but what herbs for instance are yout

 alking about,  maybe a brief few would not be to many, I am such as what you

 mentioned, just a consumer and i know for a fact that I don't know near

 enough to know what not to mix or what to mix.

 

 thanks

 

 cindy >>



Hi Cindy -



Here I'm talking about the mixing of drugs and herbs, and we've put up 

possible interactions and cautions here.  Otherwise it's always a good idea 

if you are going to try to self-treat to either take an extensive course, and 

get a couple of herbal PDRs which are loaded with interactions.  The list 

would be too overwhelmed to type them all up again, but I think they're in 

the library here.

In health -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal	Regulations--...

From: "Harkins" <harkins@sky1.net>

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:26:08 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by harkins <harkins@sky1.net> :



And it's not just drugs... caffeine and other seemingly innocent substances

can cause bad reactions with certain herbs...



Susan

>

> Here I'm talking about the mixing of drugs and herbs, and we've put up

> possible interactions and cautions here.  Otherwise it's always a good

idea

> if you are going to try to self-treat to either take an extensive course,

and

> get a couple of herbal PDRs which are loaded with interactions.  The list

> would be too overwhelmed to type them all up again, but I think they're in

> the library here.

> In health -

> Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal	Regulations--...

From: MDLukacs@aol.com

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:31:20 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by mdlukacs@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/2/00 10:42:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

Herbgrow30@aol.com writes:



<< get a couple of herbal PDRs which are loaded with interactions. >>



Hi Mary --



I have a number of books on herbs, but there is little in them on 

interactions.  Will you recommend some titles that I can purchase?  I'm very 

interested in learning more.



Thanks so much,

Denise



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal	Regulations--...

From: "natural" <natural@wt.net>

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:37:05 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by natural@wt.net :



>

> I have a number of books on herbs, but there is little in them on

> interactions.  Will you recommend some titles that I can purchase?  I'm

very

> interested in learning more.

>

> Thanks so much,

> Denise



Denise I just ordered  an interaction software program which I have not

seen.  Should arrive end of this week and will try out. It's by  Integrative

Medical Arts, a division of IBISmedical.com, InteractionsT, a CD-based and

on-line reference to interactions between prescription and over-the-counter

medications and herbs and nutritional supplements. InteractionsT provides

medical professionals information that will allow them to more safely

prescribe, while considering all potential interactions between substances a

patient is taking. This fills the information gap left between the currently

existing body of literature (which has focused on interactions between

pharmaceuticals) and the actual habits of patients, who are increasingly

using herbs, nutrients and "alternative" medications.

http://www.integrativemedicalarts.com/Interactions.html



Have no commercial interest in this company or product.  Am curious of

anyone else has this Interactions and if so, your thoughts on it.



Rosie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal	Regulations--...

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 17:53:58 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/2/00 11:31:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, MDLukacs@aol.com 

writes:



<< I have a number of books on herbs, but there is little in them on 

 interactions.  Will you recommend some titles that I can purchase?  I'm very 

 interested in learning more.

 

 Thanks so much,

 Denise >>



From Barnes & Noble" Complimentary & Alternative Medicines" by Avila &Paltrow 

(sold in paperback form and less expensive with more herbs), and from 

Amazon.com "PDR of Herbal Medicine" by the Medical Economics Company (it's 

expensive but well worth it).



I don't have them here to give you the ISBN# right now as I moved all of my 

texts up to the new botanical pharmacy.



Warmly -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal	Regulations--...

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:02:32 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/2/00 12:38:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, natural@wt.net 

writes:



<< This fills the information gap left between the currently

 existing body of literature (which has focused on interactions between

 pharmaceuticals) and the actual habits of patients, who are increasingly

 using herbs, nutrients and "alternative" medications.

 http://www.integrativemedicalarts.com/Interactions.html

 

 Have no commercial interest in this company or product.  Am curious of

 anyone else has this Interactions and if so, your thoughts on it.

 

 Rosie

  >>



Hi Rosie -



I know Mitch who is the head of the company.  He owns the Paracelsus list and 

is very good and thorough.  I'm sure whatever he puts out will be first-rate.



I may order it myself.



Warmly -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal	Regulations--...

From: "natural" <natural@wt.net>

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 17:18:04 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by natural@wt.net :



> I know Mitch who is the head of the company.  He owns the Paracelsus list

and

> is very good and thorough.  I'm sure whatever he puts out will be

first-rate.

>

> I may order it myself.

>

> Warmly -

> Mary

>

Hi Mary, I agree with your statement.  Have their IBIS 99 and yes Mitch is

first class.  The Interactions CD arrived this afternoon, will install,

report back to the group by this weekend.  Again, have NCI in this product.



Rosie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Chrons Disease

From: Selah88@aol.com

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:33:02 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by selah88@aol.com :



Could someone give me some advice on Chrons Disease?  Several people close to me are in various stages of this disease.  I have got to believe there is a better solution than surgery.  I would greatly appreciate any ideas or input.  Thanks.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Speaking of PDR's

From: Nolan <lilyrose@localnet.com>

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:07:25 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by lilyrose@localnet.com :



I just recieved an advertisement in the mail for a PDR for Herbal

Medicines, and was wondering if anyone has heard of it, and if it is a

worthwhile book.  It's from the Medical Economics Company.  This particular

book says "combination of Germany's Commission E with the expertise of

Joerg Gruenwald, Ph.D, and many other experts, scholars and scientists

working in this field"  Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks so much!!

Cheryl



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Speaking of PDR's

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 07:07:12 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



I'm not a great fan of the Herbal PDR.  Those "experts, scholars and

others working in the field don't appear to include practicing clinical

herbalists.  It isn't organized for herbalists- for instance by action of

the herb.  Much of the data is outdated Commission E stuff.  It has some

decent descriptive botanical written information but the photos of the

few plants photographed are two inch squares in the front -much like the

pill photos in the PDR.  There is a fair amount of constituent

information but little to nothing  on whether the compounds are actually

available in the various forms that people use- for instance some listed

constituents may only come out with powerful solvents, but are absent in

infusions or methol alcohol tinctures.  The actions listed may only occur

when the herb is prepared in specific ways, but this information is

missing.  



If you do lots of medical work, you should probably have it for legal

reasons- it could become a basis of "legal" contraindications.  If you

want a good herbal, get Penelope Ody, Michael Hoffman or one of the other

good illustrated herbals.  And if you do get it, Cosco or other

discounters have it significantly below list price.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"Isolating an active constituent from a plant is an affront to nature. It

is like taking the intelligence and leaving the wisdom behind."  - Deepak

Chopra



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: increasing the size of breasts

From: "xana.oliveira" <xana.oliveira@clix.pt>

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:58:37 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by xana.oliveira <xana.oliveira@clix.pt> :



Diane:

could you tell me what's goat's rue? by the way, I agree with what you said,

because what's important is our health and our own acceptance. what worry's

me is that Portugal as no herb knowledge, and is invaded with this kind of

stuff.

Sandra Oliveira Almeida

xana.oliveira@clix.pt

Seixal-Portugal



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: RE: increasing the size of breasts

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:35:01 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Sandra;

sorry for the delay in answering, but I am not sure what kind of herb goat's 

rue is.  I just remembered it being in this tincture concoction called "More 

Milk".  I know women who would just sprout their own fennugreek and fennel, 

and eat it on salads and sandwiched to get the desired effect.  And I have 

read of milk thistle for the same thing.  But even way back then, I couldn't 

find anything on goat's rue.

sorry!

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: RE: increasing the size of breasts

From: "Giles" <gil@alltel.net>

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:38:00 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by gil <gil@alltel.net> :



Goat's rue is galega officinalis.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together? used to be: re:herbal Regulations--...

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 06:33:56 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:37:05 -0600, "natural" <natural@wt.net> wrote to

herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>Have no commercial interest in this company or product.  Am curious of

>anyone else has this Interactions and if so, your thoughts on it.



The herbs covered are covered very nicely, but unfortunately there's only about

25 of them. If it were 100 the CD would be well worth its price.



Francis Brinker's book is good, as is Michael Moore's online booklet

"Herbal-medical contraindications" (http://chili.rt66.com/hrbmoore/HOMEPAGE - go

for the manuals.)



Cheers

Henriette

--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Two-stage extraction processes

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:04:02 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Susan had asked about two step extraction processes.  There is not one

single way that I extract.  If I am extracting something where

polysaccharides will be destroyed above 30% alcohol, but I want high

alcohol constituents, I may divide the herb and do some in lab alcohol

while the rest goes in 80-100 proof vodka.  I then calculate the

resultant concentrations (since fresh herb adds water) and mix so that my

total alcohol concentration is under 30%, but over 25% for preservation's

sake.



I will alternatively decoct the herb and mix it with glycerine, adding it

to a high alcohol extraction.  Infusing herbs in glycerine for a month is

not a very effective way to extract herbs, so a cooking process helps

facilitate things.



Deborah St. Clair's book _The Herbal Medicine Cabinet_ has lists of

optimum alcohol concentrations for various herbs, as well as clear

instructions on making and calculating the percentages in your tinctures.



And there are _lots_ of ways to prepare herbs besides tinctures or teas.

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.  

Greatness is always the result of an accumulation of little things: a

million results from an accumulation of ones. If you can appreciate it

when it is only a promise and perfect it when it becomes evident, you are

close to knowing the divine process- Ge Hong



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Hepatitus C

From: terrisegal@delaware.net

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:50:17 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by terrisegal@delaware.net :



Hello, 

I have a friend who has been diagnosed with hep c.

She is 40yrs old.

Works as a dental radiology teacher (has been getting hep b shots every 3

or 4 years).

Was diagnosed with hep A  when she was 13

Was diagnosed with breast cancer and had her right breast removed in august

of this year.  Did not do radiation or Chemo.

She was taking large amounts of vitamin A (75,000 to 100, per day).

and stopped about a month before her blood test.

Her blood test shows elevated liver enzymes but she does not have any of

the 'commen' symptoms of hep c.

She takes vitamin c and was taking a prescription form of iron.

The dr's want to do a liver and bone marrow biopsy and she is not sure that

she wants to do this.

Herbs that were suggested that she take were milk thistle and yellow dock

but only took for a week or so.

Any thoughts on this . . . . herbs to take etc....more info on hep c.

Anything is helpful and appreciated.

Thanks,

Terri



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Picorhiza kurroa

From: terrisegal@delaware.net

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:02:17 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by terrisegal@delaware.net :



Hi,

Does anyone know where to purchase this herb and in what form does it come.

Has anyone worked with it . . . . dosages . . . .for elevated liver enzymes

possible hep c.

Thanks,

Terri

terrisegal@delaware.ent



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Heavy metals

From: Pamela Quayle <herbgatherer@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:10:56 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgatherer@snet.net :



I believe incorporating a variety of sea vegetables (from the cleanest possible

waters) into the diet along with root herbs like dandelion and burdock - as food

not therapeutically - and plenty of green herbs and vegetables (organic!) is the

best way to prevent the build up of environmentally available heavy metals and

other toxins.  They are also providing a good nutritional base.  It seems to me

that preventing buildup and treating it are two very different issues.



Pamela



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re(2): Heavy metals

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:36:04 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> I believe incorporating a variety of sea vegetables (from the

> cleanest possible waters) into the diet along with root herbs like

> dandelion and burdock - as food not therapeutically - and plenty of

> green herbs and vegetables (organic!) is the best way to prevent the

> build up of environmentally available heavy metals and other toxins.



From the bowel, maybe, sort of. Vitamin C is the obvious choice if you are

worried about this issue. Try Alacer's CMA, which has other useful effects

(like adding magnesium to your diet, which deficiency can cause you a lot

more problems than a few milligrams of mercury in your mouth).



Sodium alginate is a pretty good 'chelator,' but nothing like plain old

vitamin C.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re(2): Heavy metals, was MS

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:36:08 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> A good example of when a "toxin is not a toxin" is as follows:

> Barium, in the form of barium chloride, is a deadly poison. Barium, in



> It is thus very possible to have toxic elements in the body, BUT to have

> them in a state where they are "unavailable" to the body.



The interior of the bowel is not 'inside' the body, any more than your

wristwatch is.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Big Bruise

From: "Clawso" <clawso@mail.snider.net>

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:03:31 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by clawso@mail.snider.net :



Have a huge bruise on thigh as a result of sledding accidnet. Really ugly

sucker. All around upper leg and well below kneee.



Docs say I lost between 1 & 2 liters of blood inteternally and they're

tracking it for calcification and infection. One huge anti-biotic shot and

Demoral for pain [unused].



Advice? Am doubling my garlic [fresh] and doing an echninacea routine along

with increasing anti-oxidant vitamins.



They say I'll likely temporarily loose about 1/3rd of my strength in that

thigh which is bad news for a tennis player.



C.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 02:07:06 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Homeopathic Arnica 30C works better to my mind than even herbal

poultices.  Infused arnica oil will do in a pinch however.  And you might

want to poultice anyway, with plantain leaves, which you may even be able

to find fresh under the snow.



And if you are experimental and have very clean plantain leaves and read

all the appropriate cautions, that pine extract DMSO in a form designed

for human use can help.



Keep up your antioxidants internally. Chyawanprash the ayurvedic herbal

jam is my preferred way, but other sources of Vitamin C or other

antioxidants will help break up the stagnation, possibly with an assist

from a magnet taped over the spot.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.  

Greatness is always the result of an accumulation of little things: a

million results from an accumulation of ones. If you can appreciate it

when it is only a promise and perfect it when it becomes evident, you are

close to knowing the divine process- Ge Hong



On Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:03:31 -0600 "Clawso" <clawso@mail.snider.net>

writes:

>Sent to the herblist by clawso@mail.snider.net :

>

>Have a huge bruise on thigh as a result of sledding accidnet. Really 

>ugly

>sucker



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: diana cascioli <raven@gwu.edu>

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:13:56 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Diana Cascioli <raven@gwu.edu> :



Clawso wrote:

> 

> Sent to the herblist by clawso@mail.snider.net :

> 

> Have a huge bruise on thigh as a result of sledding accidnet. Really ugly

> sucker. All around upper leg and well below kneee.

> 

> Docs say I lost between 1 & 2 liters of blood inteternally and they're

> tracking it for calcification and infection. One huge anti-biotic shot and

> Demoral for pain [unused].

> 

> Advice? Am doubling my garlic [fresh] and doing an echninacea routine along

> with increasing anti-oxidant vitamins.



I'd give homeopathic arnica a shot. It comes in both ointment form and

as pellets. 



I for some reason want to suggest St. Johns wort infused oil, but I

don't know if that's even an appropriate treatment for bruises.



-- 

raven*.*.*.*.diana cascioli | Be not over wary, but wary enough, 

*.*.*GW Graphic Design.*.*. | First, of the foaming ale,

      http://gwu.edu/~raven | Second, of a woman wed to another,

 http://bmeworld.com/raven2 | Third, of the tricks of thieves. --Havamal



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:54:04 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/04/2000 11:13:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

raven@gwu.edu writes:



<< I for some reason want to suggest St. Johns wort infused oil, but I

 don't know if that's even an appropriate treatment for bruises. >>



Lets hear it for the "little voices" that we listen to.  Long before it 

became the "herb du jour" in the neutraceutical market and the "chic" form of 

elavil, SJW was used for exactly this kind of muscular trauma.  It is 

wonderful for repairing nerve damage and whether you use it as an oil or a 

tincture, rubbing it directly onto the area will help.  



If you are going to be bold try putting some cayenne comfrey and horse 

chestnut aolng with the SJW into a crock pot with a light oil - like 

grapeseed  - and slow cook  it on low for a couple of days  and use that  - 

the chestnut and comfrey both have a long history of helping with things like 

phlebitis and bruising the SJW will help with the nerve damage and the 

cayenne will help get it all there to the right spot to do its magic.  rub in 

every 2 hours.  One word of caution though.  If you do use the cayenne - 

which you should- be very careful about where you touch yourself after 

applying the stuff until you wash your hands.  The face and "private" areas 

of the body are very sensitive and a lack of caution can be the portal to a 

conversation with God. (the voice of experience speaking)

Good luck

peter 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 19:37:58 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



NEHrbSup@aol.com wrote:



> If you are going to be bold try putting some cayenne comfrey and horse

> chestnut aolng with the SJW into a crock pot with a light oil - like

> grapeseed  - and slow cook  it on low for a couple of days  and use that  -



Is it really necessary to do this for a "couple of days"?  When I use my crock

pot to prepare an infused oil, the oil is usually the color of the herb, and it's

quite fragrant, in 60 to 90 minutes.  I'd be afraid I'd be cooking the life out

of it by heating it that long.



May

--

I hope that's valerian I smell. --Howie Brounstein



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: Christa Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:04:55 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by cmaria@triton.net :



Can you get hold of some helichrysum Essential oil?  Apply a dab first

day 3 times full strength, after that dilute with a carrier oil, such as

almond, grapeseed or even oliveoil..C-M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:41:02 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



In regards to the bruise:  I, too, would recommend arnica and st. john's 

wort.  frontier herbs (nci) puts out just such a salve that i have used on my 

kids with great success.  however, with such an extreme bruise, i would be 

very careful in rubbing it much - you could run the risk of breaking off 

little clots before your body has had a chance to do its job in 

phagocyticizing all those dead cells.  and if any of those clots are big 

enough and travel to a coronary artery, or in the lungs, it could spell 

trouble.  be careful.

diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:38:10 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



Ooh, ouch!



I would be applying an arnica cream as quickly as possible



Guarana taken [no later than 4 hours before retiring] up to 3 times a

day helps to clear blood and prevent agglomeration, 500mg or level

teaspoon  made in to a tea is a suitable dosage.



Also gives you stamina and helps with pain.



Judith.

 :

>

> Have a huge bruise on thigh as a result of sledding accidnet. Really

ugly

> sucker. All around upper leg and well below kneee.

>

> Docs say I lost between 1 & 2 liters of blood inteternally and

they're

> tracking it for calcification and infection. One huge anti-biotic

shot and

> Demoral for pain [unused].

>

> Advice? Am doubling my garlic [fresh] and doing an echninacea

routine along

> with increasing anti-oxidant vitamins.

>

> They say I'll likely temporarily loose about 1/3rd of my strength in

that

> thigh which is bad news for a tennis player.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 00:48:24 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Have a huge bruise on thigh as a result of sledding accidnet. Really ugly

> sucker. All around upper leg and well below kneee.

> 

> Docs say I lost between 1 & 2 liters of blood inteternally 



Really? You lose two quarts of blood internally, that is one-third of your

blood supply. That would be one HUGE hematoma (not just a bruise), and I

guess you would be in the hospital. They would certainly have transfused

you.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 13:53:57 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Paul Iannone wrote:



> Really? You lose two quarts of blood internally, that is one-third of your

> blood supply. That would be one HUGE hematoma (not just a bruise), and I

> guess you would be in the hospital. They would certainly have transfused

> you.



I lost nearly half my blood supply due to a post-partum hemorrhage (this was in

1976) and my doctor chose not to transfuse me, just kept me in the hospital

overnight.  They did give me Wheatena for breakfast (instead of those

surgical-sponge-like white cereals) but just sent me home with orders to rest

and eat well.



May



--

I hope that's valerian I smell. --Howie Brounstein



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:44:48 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/05/2000 2:11:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

galingale@chariot.net.au writes:



<< Guarana taken [no later than 4 hours before retiring] up to 3 times a

 day helps to clear blood and prevent agglomeration, 500mg or level

 teaspoon  made in to a tea is a suitable dosage. >>



And I add,   Also great if you are short of cash and want to fly anywhere for 

free - But NOT if you have a problem with your ticker.  its like drinking 2 

POTS of coffee.  Try a "little" before going "whole hog"  - I am "up" for a 

whole day and pretty well wired after ingestion of just a little.  Be cautious

peter 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: "Harkins" <harkins@sky1.net>

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:50:15 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by harkins <harkins@sky1.net> :



I've never heard of this herb and it sounds a bit dangerous -- is it?



Susan

>

> << Guarana taken [no later than 4 hours before retiring] up to 3 times a

>  day helps to clear blood and prevent agglomeration, 500mg or level

>  teaspoon  made in to a tea is a suitable dosage. >>

>

> And I add,   Also great if you are short of cash and want to fly anywhere

for

> free - But NOT if you have a problem with your ticker.  its like drinking

2

> POTS of coffee.  Try a "little" before going "whole hog"  - I am "up" for

a

> whole day and pretty well wired after ingestion of just a little.  Be

cautious

> peter



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:29:29 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Guarana is quite high in caffeine. I remember using it for study and

getting the shakes so badly that I could barely answer the test the next

morning.  Haven't touched the stuff since. Be cautious.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Greatness is always the result of an accumulation of little things: a

million results from an accumulation of ones. If you can appreciate it

when it is only a promise and perfect it when it becomes evident, you are

close to knowing the divine process- Ge Hong



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 16:11:17 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



> << Guarana taken [no later than 4 hours before retiring] up to 3

times a

>  day helps to clear blood and prevent agglomeration, 500mg or level

>  teaspoon  made in to a tea is a suitable dosage. >>

>

> And I add,   Also great if you are short of cash and want to fly

anywhere for

> free - But NOT if you have a problem with your ticker.  its like

drinking 2

> POTS of coffee.  Try a "little" before going "whole hog"  - I am

"up" for a

> whole day and pretty well wired after ingestion of just a little.

Be cautious

> peter

>



I can't drink coffee at all, but guarana contains so much less

caffeine in a different form that I find it fine to take.  With

caffeine I get frightening palpitations - guarana none!

Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 14:57:53 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> And I add,   Also great if you are short of cash and want to fly

> anywhere for  free - But NOT if you have a problem with your ticker.

>  its like drinking 2  POTS of coffee.  Try a "little" before going

> "whole hog"  - I am "up" for a  whole day and pretty well wired

> after ingestion of just a little.  Be cautious peter 



A sign of deficient Yin. If you are reactive to caffeine, you probably

have low-level heart yin deficiency, which is very common in modern times.

Vitamin E is a heart yin booster, as is EPO, as is the wonderful dragoneye

berry (Long gan). Rich brown, and smokey flavored, they are a definite

herbal treat you shouldn't miss. Most Chinatown's have them.



American plant equivalent would be nopales.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 17:01 +0000 (GMT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk :



In-Reply-To: <LYR97981-36296-2000.02.06-00.00.50--psilver#cix.compulink.co.uk@-

franklin.oit.u>

Hi Paul,



> Really? You lose two quarts of blood internally, that is one-third of 

> your

> blood supply. That would be one HUGE hematoma (not just a bruise)



I damaged my knee badly in a bicycle accident some years ago and my leg 

turned black from my knee down to my toes.  The medics estimated that I 

had probably lost about 2 pints of blood into the tissues.  Part of the 

reason the blood spread so far instead of being confined to a small area 

was that I was off-roading and had to get myself around 15 miles to the 

nearest road because there wasn't much chance of someone coming along, so 

the exercise and movement encouraged the blood to move through the 

tissues.  The medics didn't believe that I had got myself out without 

help, and yes, I did a lot of swearing on the way  ;-)



Anyway, what worked for me was cold compresses with witch-hazel for the 

first couple of days while the bruising felt hot, then hot compresses when 

it felt cool, homeopathic arnica internally and arnica ointment 

externally.  Also /careful/ movement and stretching to prevent 

calcification and micro-scarring within the muscles.



Bear in mind too that as the blood in the bruise is broken down you get a 

variety of breakdown products released that can make you feel off-colour 

if it happens too quickly.  Since most of the work of dealing with this is 

done by the liver, something like milk-thistle might be helpful.



PatS



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 17:01 +0000 (GMT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk :



In-Reply-To: <LYR97981-36296-2000.02.06-00.00.50--psilver#cix.compulink.co.uk@-

franklin.oit.u>

Hi Susan,



Guarana contains high levels of caffeine which is why it will give you a 

buzz and keep you awake.



> I've never heard of this herb and it sounds a bit dangerous -- is it?



PatS



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 00:04:47 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Guarana is quite high in caffeine. I remember using it for study and

> getting the shakes so badly that I could barely answer the test the next

> morning.  Haven't touched the stuff since. Be cautious.



There is a marketing dispute about the name caffeine. Guarana supposedly

has 'guaranine,' mate 'mateine,' but both of these are so close to

caffeine, it is a silly debate. 



On the other hand, plants have very complex chemistry, as a rule. Case in

point, coffee, the drink, a complex plant product if ever one is to be

found, is quite rich in NIACIN.



Oddly, the roasting is what makes the raw bean niacin-precursor into

usable niacin. 



Therefore, we can say that part of the boost people feel taking coffee is

actually a REPLACEMENT of some of the B vitamins that coffee drains from

their system in the first place. (Who knows if there is a similar process

in mate or guarana, but neither of those plant beverages are roasted, at

least, not as much as a coffee bean. Habituating to these beverages, then,

might induce a greater depletion of niacin than coffee). 



Now, niacin is pretty damn important stuff: you need it to form NAD and

NADP, which are SO basic to cellular respiration, without them the 'little

gray cells' cannot do their work--and it is hard to wake up, much less

breathe. 



Compared to Co-Q10, niacin is cheap, too. Brewer's yeast (primary grown,

of course) anyone? (asparagus, fish, whole grains...).



Like many herbal issues, oddly reminds me the song lines: 



'be kind to your web-footed friends, for a duck may be somebody's mother.'



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 08:51:44 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> She bruises very easily



A sign of qi depletion. Ginseng is the traditional solution. 



Nutritionally, may point to vitamin C & bioflavonoids deficiency. This

vitamin is HIGHLY individual in need...many people couldn't possibly get

enough from their diet.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:20 +0000 (GMT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk :



In-Reply-To: <LYR97981-36470-2000.02.07-00.00.14--psilver#cix.compulink.co.uk@-

franklin.oit.u>

Hi Judith,



> I can't drink coffee at all, but guarana contains so much less

> caffeine in a different form that I find it fine to take.  With

> caffeine I get frightening palpitations - guarana none!

> Judith.



In which case it's probably not the caffeine you are reacting to but one 

of the other alkaloids found in coffee, since guarana usually contains 

more caffeine than coffee, and in an identical form. Have you ever taken 

pure caffeine and if so, what effect did that have?



PatS



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:30:18 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



> > I can't drink coffee at all, but guarana contains so much less

> > caffeine in a different form that I find it fine to take.  With

> > caffeine I get frightening palpitations - guarana none!



> In which case it's probably not the caffeine you are reacting to but

one

> of the other alkaloids found in coffee, since guarana usually

contains

> more caffeine than coffee, and in an identical form. Have you ever

taken

> pure caffeine and if so, what effect did that have?



Quoting from 'Guarana - the Energy Seeds of the Rainforest' by Michael

Van Straten  (who did his research in South America) with permission

from the copyright holder:

"Guarana will yeild between 3.5 and 4% by weight (of caffeine), which

is about twice the yield of cofee and three times that of tea - this

type of comparison is grossly misleading.  The recommended daily dose

of Guarana as a supplement or medicament is 1 gram, but the amount of

tea or coffee consumed in every cup is hugely more.  If we compare the

amount of caffeine in a 200 ml serving of various drinks with the

amount in a daily dose of Guarana, we arrive at the folloing figures:

Coffee (brewed)        100-200 mg

Coffee (instant)            80-100 mg

Tea                             70-100 mg

Cola drinks                         55 mg

Guarana, daily dose             35 mg "



Also, tea and coffee are water soluble and the caffeine starts to

enter the blood stream as soon as they are drunk.  Guarana contains

saponins which are not water soluble which means it is absorbed more

slowly into the body, taking "up to 6 hours."



I have to be careful with tea as well - never late in the day and

never very strong - I really only drink 'common tea' to be polite when

I am out as most people don't have an arsenal of alternatives.



Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:20:15 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Note that coffee is no more caffeine than St. john's wort is hypericum.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them."     --- Mother

Teresa



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:52:03 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>Note that coffee is no more caffeine than St. john's wort is hypericum.



Heh. You do mean "...than St. John's wort is hypericin.", don't you?



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 05:02:16 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



>>Note that coffee is no more caffeine than St. john's wort is 

>hypericum.

>

>Heh. You do mean "...than St. John's wort is hypericin.", don't you?

>

>Henriette



You bet.  I'm just back from major surgery and am somewhat woozy.  Should

get an email program that lets me hold and review instead of sending.



ROTFL (or would be if I could roll or laugh)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them."     --- Mother

Teresa



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: "Mike & Linda Shipley" <n5wuh@ionet.net>

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:36:25 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by n5wuh@ionet.net :



> > Note that coffee is no more caffeine than St. john's wort is hypericum.

>

> Karen Vaughan

> CreationsGarden@juno.com

> ***************************************

> Sorry, May. I assumed too much, like you could read my mind.! This note

about caffeine and st. johnswort is what I was referring to when I said "I

don't quite follow unless you mean the plant involves more than just

caffeine or just hypericum. There are a whole range of buffers, etc. "

Whatever.

Linda Shipley



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Big Bruise

From: awilloby@enternet.co.nz

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:14:34 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by awilloby@enternet.co.nz :



> Have a huge bruise on thigh as a result of sledding accidnet. Really ugly

> sucker. All around upper leg and well below kneee.



I always use comfrey ointment for bruising.  My wife bruised her leg 

when the horse she was riding cut a corner against a fence post.  

She bruises very easily and came home with an enormous knee 

and was barely able to walk.  Next morning, after a confrey and 

burdock poultice and comfrey and burdock ointment there was no 

soreness or swelling and barely any visible sign of a bruise.  I 

make my own comfrey and burdock cream with olive oil thickened 

with beeswax but you can buy comfrey ointment (I haven't seen it 

with burdock though).



Alan

Alan Willoughby

PO Box 296, Tauranga, New Zealand

Phone/fax 64 7 5443087



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: bruise

From: MARDI2GRAS@aol.com

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:24:50 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by mardi2gras@aol.com :



take bromlien (sp) pineapple emezyne is for bruising, take with pineapple or 

pineapple juice



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Intro and a Question

From: Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com>

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 00:00:52 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com> :



Hollo, good herbal folks!



I joined the list a few days ago and have been merrily lurking, thoroughly

enjoying myself. 



DH and I moved out to the country (escaping from the suburbs) a year ago,

and are setting up a mini-homestead of sorts. Chickens, gardens. Lots and

lots of flowers. Wish I could get as enthused about veggies as I am the

flowers and herbs, but perhaps I'll get there. 



I dabbled in herbs back in the mid 80s a bit, and really enjoyed it. Such

incredible creatures they are! The time is right to get back into it, and

I'm delighted there's this wonderful list. (I hope there's no strong bias

against the home / family herbalist.)  



Looks like there's been an explosion of knowledge and expertise since my

initial forays into herbalism and that dazzles, amazes and pleases me all at

once. So I found especially useful the recent discussion about herbal

references. I have a number of herbals I like but obviously will be adding

further to my library. (Any other suggestions would be appreciated.)



Naturally I have a number of specific questions, but I'll get to those.

There's time. 



I did want to get your thoughts, for anyone who might care to share, on a

question (really an objection about herbs) I've encountered twice recently

in mentioning my newly revived interest to people. I gave them my own

answers, but I'd like to see how that meshes with current thinking on the

subject. 



I consider the whole thing something of a non-issue, and definitely a

question that stems from what I call the Western Medical Model (WMM). It has

to do with the potency, really the variable potency, of an herb grown in

this location versus that, or different leaves (or whatever part is used)

from the same plant, or even different plants grown in the same location. Of

course, the new *standardized* herbs supposedly address that -- but does it

even NEED addressing? IS it an issue? If not, why not?



Anyone care to comment?



Eloriel



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Intro and a Question

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:22:44 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/5/00 1:01:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

eloriel@mindspring.com writes:



<< I consider the whole thing something of a non-issue, and definitely a

 question that stems from what I call the Western Medical Model (WMM). It has

 to do with the potency, really the variable potency, of an herb grown in

 this location versus that, or different leaves (or whatever part is used)

 from the same plant, or even different plants grown in the same location. Of

 course, the new *standardized* herbs supposedly address that -- but does it

 even NEED addressing? IS it an issue? If not, why not?

 

 Anyone care to comment?

 

 Eloriel >>



As a grower I have found that I can have herbs in my garden, and they are 

soil-dependent.  Because they take up minerals from the soil different 

locations will yield separate amounts.  Plus certain families of herbs uptake 

specific minerals.  

For instance - Legumes uptake calcium, potassium and phosphorus supplying 

them to us in the forms we need.  They are also called the lime plants and 

they give us material to build bone, ligaments, and teeth.  The Lily 

(Liliaceae family) stores up organic sulfur in a non-poisonous form.  Plants 

rich in iron supply food for the blood.  The phosphorus plants supply food 

for the brain and nervous system.

Most good herbals that speak of growing herbs can give you this information.



So I can grow yellow dock on the southern end of my farm and get a separate 

iron content, than the ones growing on the northern end, because soil varies 

in different locations/parts of the world.  Yet if you use plenty of organic 

compost and natural fertilizers soil can be replenished very well each year.  

Plus growing cover crops rich in nitrogen and ploughing them under each 

spring is wonderful to keep organic soil rich and productive.



In health -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Intro and a Question

From: "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:14:09 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



Eloriel wrote:



> It has to do with the potency, really the variable potency,

> of an herb grown in this location versus that, or different

> leaves (or whatever part is used) from the same plant, or

> even different plants grown in the same location. Of course,

> the new *standardized* herbs supposedly address that -- but

> does it even NEED addressing? IS it an issue? If not, why not?



> Anyone care to comment?



Hail and well met, Eloriel! Neato name. Welcome to our little slice of

paradise here in cyberspace. Tons of informative folks here, and as you may

guess, there will be lots of disagreement on every topic imaginable! That's

as it should be. How boring would it be if we all agreed.



I have found that whatever herb I grow is almost always better than the

stuff I can purchase, standardized or not!  Freshness has a lot to do with

it, of course.  I admit, however, that I haven't tried to grow any kind of

root herbs, for alas, my entire garden is in pots (condo life sucks

sometimes).



I also think that when one grows their own, a special mind/body relationship

is fostered.  Since I care for my plants on a daily basis, I am very atuned

with their needs.  And I know that no poisons have been dumped upon them.

When they are ailing (whitefly infestation for example) I take good care of

them, and then the favor is returned in kind when I am ailing.   It seems

magical and mystical and if I had never experienced this personally I would

be saying "BULLPUCKEY" if I read such a 'testimonial'.



In short, the best you can do is to watch what you grow and see how it does.

The plants will let you know if something's wrong or something's missing.

Sometimes you may not figure it out until it's too late, but there's always

the next season!



- Tera.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Intro and a Question

From: Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com>

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:51:58 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com> :



Mary and Tera -- thanks for your most interesting replies, which I

appreciate along with the welcome.(I'm increasingly glad to be here on the

list -- such fabulous info.)



I'm afraid I was somewhat unclear in posing my question. I wasn't so much

interested in the variable potency of herbs I grow myself, but rather

others' thoughts about the general *objection* to herbalism that herbs are

somehow inferior [to pharmaceuticals] or perhaps dangerous because you can't

tell (control, actually) the potency from plant to plant, location to

location, or between plant material within the same plant  -- that because

the potency is variable, you can't control dosage. And if you can't control

dosage, well, what good is it?



In all my own reading (mostly from previous interlude with herbs), I don't

recall seeing any real concern about the *variable potency* of herbs

expressed by the herbalist authors, EXCEPT as it might apply to the age of

the dried herb, or the potency of the preparation (tincture, decoction,

etc.) one might make oneself.



Any comments about that side of the issue?



Mary, I'll definitely save your interesting comments for future reference.



Tera wrote:

>I also think that when one grows their own, a special mind/body relationship

>is fostered.  Since I care for my plants on a daily basis, I am very atuned

>with their needs.  And I know that no poisons have been dumped upon them.

>When they are ailing (whitefly infestation for example) I take good care of

>them, and then the favor is returned in kind when I am ailing.   It seems

>magical and mystical and if I had never experienced this personally I would

>be saying "BULLPUCKEY" if I read such a 'testimonial'.



Tera, yes!! I definitely find herbs magical and mystical. ;-)  When I'm

standing at the kitchen counter filling some gelatin capsules, or putting

together some little formula, the herb material tho dried seems nevertheless

alive between my fingers, and my consciousness shifts to an ever so slightly

altered state -- lightly daydream-like. (And believe me, that NEVER happens

when I'm cooking, which is always something of an *unnatural act* for me!! LOL) 



I'm really looking forward to working with my own home-grown herbs, and your

description makes me VERY eager for spring to get here. Last year, the only

herb I harvested to dry was peppermint (one of my faves), tho I did use some

culinary herbs from my nascent herb garden. Can't wait to get that echinacea

really going (I want acres of it!!), and the chamomile and the feverfew, and

the . . . . Well, you get the idea.



Eloriel



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Intro and a Question

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 07:53:02 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



<< In all my own reading (mostly from previous interlude with herbs), I

don't

recall seeing any real concern about the *variable potency* of herbs

expressed by the herbalist authors, EXCEPT as it might apply to the age

of

the dried herb, or the potency of the preparation (tincture, decoction,

etc.) one might make oneself.>>



The reason for that is that most Western herbalists are advising to ose

what grows locally.  Part of the wisdom of the plants is that they change

in relationship to changes in climate moisture, etc.  Guess what, so do

you.  And the synergy of your variability and the plants is an important

part of herbalism.  Many herbalists will go so far as to not use a

particular herb for a season or so if it doesn't grow well.



Soil is nonetheless important and we have been strip-mining our soil, to

the detriment of both our herbs and our produce.  By purchasing organic

herbs grown by farmers who have a committment to rebuild the soil with

natural additives, you can reduce variability.



And finally, I recall a story told by herbalist Alan Tillotson, about

spending time with a native healer.  When he asked him how he knew that

the herbs were potent, the man replied (I paraphrase) ' Sometimes the

plants are strong and other times they are weaker, sometimes the patient

is able to make full use of the plant and other times he is weaker.  I

give a dose and see how the person reacts.  If it's too strong I reduce

the dose.  If it is too weak, I increase it.'  We are not standardized

and our metabolism and digestion varies.  The way to use herbs, or any

medicine for that matter, is to give a moderate dose and see how the

patient reacts, then increase or decrease it as warranted.

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Greatness is always the result of an accumulation of little things: a

million results from an accumulation of ones. If you can appreciate it

when it is only a promise and perfect it when it becomes evident, you are

close to knowing the divine process- Ge 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: What herbs Can Not Be Taken Together?

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 05:16:50 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



I browsed the Interactions Web page, didn't see how many herbs were on the CD,

but when I saw price $99.95 (U.S.), and it requires 32-bit Windows or Mac OS 7.1

or later, that was end of story for me.



I once downloaded a program known as Herbage, took 40 MB disk space but never

worked right.  I forget if it was free or shareware, but eventually deleted all

the files, never paid for the nonworking program.  I would much prefer a

database in plain text or HTML, or some nonproprietary format that will work in

any operating system rather than just the latest Windows and Mac OS.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Eye swelling

From: Kat11559@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:58:24 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by kat11559@aol.com :



Help!  I have just gotten over a really bad bought of the flu.  The doctors 

had me on antibiotics and steroids and now my eyes are really swollen and 

puffy.  Any suggestions?



Thank you in advance.



Kathrine



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Eye swelling

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:45:34 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/5/00 9:58:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kat11559@aol.com 

writes:



<< Help!  I have just gotten over a really bad bought of the flu.  The 

doctors 

 had me on antibiotics and steroids and now my eyes are really swollen and 

 puffy.  Any suggestions?

 

 Thank you in advance.

 

 Kathrine >>



Hi Katherine -



You need to detoxify all of the meds from your system.  Am sending you a 

recent lesson on cleansing that I did with my class.  It's safe but should 

help tremendously.



In health -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Eye swelling

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:32:06 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Antibiotics and steroids for the flu??  Won't work.  Flus are viral  I'd

get a new doctor.



But in the meantime, probiotics, live food and a medicinal dose of stinky

blue cheese.  And some milk thistle seed for the liver.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Greatness is always the result of an accumulation of little things: a

million results from an accumulation of ones. If you can appreciate it

when it is only a promise and perfect it when it becomes evident, you are

close to knowing the divine process- Ge Hong



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Eye swelling

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 16:50:34 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Mary;

could you include that lesson on detoxifying on this site for all of us?

thanks

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Eye swelling

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 14:56:40 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Help!  I have just gotten over a really bad bought of the flu.  The

doctors 

> had me on antibiotics and steroids and now my eyes are really swollen

and 

> puffy.  Any suggestions?



Probiotics, and you could put fresh (plain) yogurt around your (closed)

eyes.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Eye swelling

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 20:51:29 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Eye swelling and some generalized edema can be common after a round of 

steroids, depending on the dosage and length of time.  Some other 'common' 

side effects can be nightmares, and abdominal pains.  Steroids have their 

place, and can be life saving in certain circumstances, but I have never 

heard of them used for the flu unless you were also down with a secondary 

pneumonia, or have other disease entities that make your system weak to begin 

with.  Steroids, too, have a tendency to depress our immune systems.  But 

that is usually when steroids are taken over a period of time.

An old remedy for eye/facial swelling is just cold packs; put a pack of 

frozen peas over a piece of soft cotton or flannel and lay down with the cold 

pack over the eyes.  Or use cucumber slices.  The swelling will go down over 

a couple of days after the steroids are done.  Never abruptly stop steroids 

once you have started them - you could be in for far worse than when you 

started, always taper the dosage according to directions.

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Eye swelling

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 00:06:46 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Antibiotics and steroids for the flu??  Won't work.  Flus are viral  I'd

> get a new doctor.



SOP, thousands if not millions of cases a day. Steroids no doubt as a

decongestant.



> But in the meantime, probiotics, live food and a medicinal dose of stinky

> blue cheese.  And some milk thistle seed for the liver.



Ah, blue cheese. My bacteria thank you for holding this recommendation up

to our noses so often.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Hepatitis C

From: "Dr. Georges-Louis Friedli" <louis_george@earthlink.net>

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:44:44 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by louis_george@earthlink.net :



>Hello, 

>I have a friend who has been diagnosed with hep c.



Which means she came out positive in the Hepatitis C antibody detection

tests (Enzyme linked Immunosorbent assay or in-vitro enzyme dot blot

immunoassay). Am I right?



Has she been tested for hepatitis C RNA? Has she done any blood tests to

show the concentrations of ALT, AST, alkaline phosphatase, GGT etc?



>She is 40yrs old.

>Works as a dental radiology teacher (has been getting hep b shots every 3

>or 4 years).

>Was diagnosed with hep A  when she was 13

>Was diagnosed with breast cancer and had her right breast removed in august

>of this year.  Did not do radiation or Chemo.

>She was taking large amounts of vitamin A (75,000 to 100, per day).

>and stopped about a month before her blood test.



Why is she taking high doses of vitamin A? Who suggested that? That

quantity can be toxic to the liver.



>Her blood test shows elevated liver enzymes but she does not have any of

>the 'commen' symptoms of hep c.



Okay, but which enzymes and concentrations?



>She takes vitamin c and was taking a prescription form of iron.

>The dr's want to do a liver and bone marrow biopsy and she is not sure that

>she wants to do this.



She needs to do a liver biopsy. This will help to find out if the hepatic

lobular architectural pattern is normal or the extent of damage. It will

also give information such as:

if there are lymphocytes, plasma cells, eosinophils and where they are

located (such as the portal zones);

the state of the limiting plate and if there are necrosis of the

hepatocytes and in which regions. These pathological finding is very

important to know the extent of damage and another taken after treatment to

confirm the state of repair etc.



>Herbs that were suggested that she take were milk thistle and yellow dock

>but only took for a week or so.

>Any thoughts on this . . . . herbs to take etc....more info on hep c.

>Anything is helpful and appreciated.

>Thanks,

>Terri



Terri, I am sorry to say, this is not a do-it yourself case. She needs a

real good herbal medicine professional. It is a matter of life and death.

If you want me to take on this case, contact me off list. I have treated

various kinds of liver diseases with success. A month ago I started

treating a patient with hepatitis c, and so far she is doing good. Her

liver enzymes are almost getting back to normal, there is repair going on

according to pathological findings, she is pleased with what is happening.

I can give you her contact information so that you communicate with her. 



What you should be aware of though is that, traditional medicine does not

have a cure for hepatitis c. The patient is given Interferon, but that has

a lot of side effects and does not lead to a cure.



There is cure in nature's medicine but you should know what you are doing.

I am not trying to use the list as a means of getting patients. This

disease is a killer and I will like to help her.



Picorhiza kurroa can be used with other herbs but it has to done

professionally.



Check out:

http://www.friedli.com/testimonials.html



Good luck



Louis



FRIEDLI ENTERPRISES

Georges-Louis Friedli, PgDip., MSc., Ph.D.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Hepatitis C

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:31:36 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/5/00 1:01:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

louis_george@earthlink.net writes:



<< Terri, I am sorry to say, this is not a do-it yourself case. She needs a

 real good herbal medicine professional. It is a matter of life and death.

 If you want me to take on this case, contact me off list. I have treated

 various kinds of liver diseases with success. A month ago I started

 treating a patient with hepatitis c, and so far she is doing good. Her

 liver enzymes are almost getting back to normal, there is repair going on

 according to pathological findings, she is pleased with what is happening.

 I can give you her contact information so that you communicate with her. 

 

 What you should be aware of though is that, traditional medicine does not

 have a cure for hepatitis c. The patient is given Interferon, but that has

 a lot of side effects and does not lead to a cure.

 

 There is cure in nature's medicine but you should know what you are doing.

 I am not trying to use the list as a means of getting patients. This

 disease is a killer and I will like to help her.

 

 Picorhiza kurroa can be used with other herbs but it has to done

 professionally.

 

 Check out:

 http://www.friedli.com/testimonials.html

 

 Good luck

  >>



Hi Louis -



Thank you for sharing all of that.  I had a call last week from a young man 

diagnosed with Hep C.  He had been on interferon and it had debilitated him 

to the point of having to stop working.  They had been in contact with the 

Edgar Cayce Foundation and had an IV protocol, but didn't have any 

instructions on why certain herbs were picked or where to get them in IV 

form.  Not being familiar with this protocol I asked them to find out more.  

I also referred them to a chelation specialist in my area to talk this over 

with them.



The protocol called for the following:



Vitamin C (a large dose)

Calcium gluconate

B complex (high on B-6 and B-12)

Selenium

Milk thistle



The application of castor oil packs

and a vegan diet.



Obviously this is a heavy liver cleanse, and I didn't feel comfortable 

administering this, so I may have them contact you.  I don't see any 

application of rebuilding the body after all of that heavy cleansing and I'm 

not a chelation specialist.



In health -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH, N.D.

Professional Consultations/Online Classes

Botanical Pharmacy, Burtonsville, Md.

Catalogue thru:  Herbgrow30@aol.com

Specializing in Substance Abuse/Addictions Counseling

                                                ***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: pain in the bones

From: "xana.oliveira" <xana.oliveira@clix.pt>

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:15:53 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by xana.oliveira <xana.oliveira@clix.pt> :



Hello,

a friend of mine complains with pain in the back and in her knees, with no

relation with climacic variations. Her X-rays didn't show anything and she

reffuses the drugs that the doctors insiste in prescribing.I think pain

killers are not the solution, but to treat the body from inside with herbs.

What could she took? Thank you in advance

Sandra Oliveira Almeida

xana.oliveira@clix.pt

Seixal-Portugal



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:07:32 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Can anyone suggest the best places to buy bulk herbs?

I have been burned in the past with getting adulterated and low quality 

items, or herbs that were just way overpriced.

Anything you guys can suggest would be helpful.

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:35:05 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



AWoehlke@aol.com wrote:



> Can anyone suggest the best places to buy bulk herbs?

> I have been burned in the past with getting adulterated and low quality

> items, or herbs that were just way overpriced.

> Anything you guys can suggest would be helpful.



I buy from http://www.jeansgreens.com and from New England Organics, which is

near me in CT.  I guess the reason is partly that they have been helpful and so

I've grown to trust them, but mainly because their prices on most things are

reasonable, so if their herbs are higher than some places, I sort of assume

it's because they're not buying junk.  The herbs seem to be fresh (color and

scent are good), so for now I'm satisfied.



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 19:17:43 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/5/00 5:08:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, AWoehlke@aol.com 

writes:



<< Can anyone suggest the best places to buy bulk herbs?

 I have been burned in the past with getting adulterated and low quality 

 items, or herbs that were just way overpriced.

 Anything you guys can suggest would be helpful.

 Diane

  >>



Hi Diane -



One of my students sends me herbs.  She can be reached at OakCamp@aol.com.  

Barb has wonderful herbs (nci).



In health -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: Tjk469@aol.com

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:27:41 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Tjk469@aol.com :



I have ordered bulk herbs from Frontier Natural Porducts and liked the 

quality and price.  www.frontierherb.com



Tammy Kilen

Bath Body & Soul

Bath and Body Products



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 05:13:37 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>I have ordered bulk herbs from Frontier Natural Porducts and liked the

>quality and price.  www.frontierherb.com



Can the general public buy direct from Frontier, do they pay higher prices, or

do they need to form a buyers' club?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 06:31:56 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



With Frontier, the general public can become a buyers club.  All you need

are the phone numbers of two persons, a social security number for the

main member and $10.  



If you want credit, you need business references, but they take plastic.



The prices in the catalog get an 8% add on for members and a 10% add on

for non-members.  Members get a small rebate after their contribution to

the coop is paid from the surcharge.  Free postage over $200, which isn't

hard if you know some bulk groceries and helath food store pharmaceutical

and cosmetic items are available. (nci- just a member)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them."     --- Mother

Teresa



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 21:39:40 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



Have you tried "Jean's Greens"? Her catalogue came with my Rosemary Gladstar

course (so did a couple others but hers has the best prices). I haven't

ordered yet and would be interested in others as well.



Jean's Greens

119 Sulphur Spring Road

Norway, New York  13416

315-845-6500



I don't know if she's online.



Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: october moon <oct-moon@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 08:36:45 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by october moon <oct-moon@juno.com> :



<jhubbell@bridgernet.com> writes:



>Jean's Greens

>119 Sulphur Spring Road

>Norway, New York  13416

>315-845-6500

>

>I don't know if she's online.



Jean is online at

<jeansgreens.com>

and she has a toll free number:

888.845.8327

THe herbs are vital and fresh!

She is a lovely woman, I visit her when I go to my moms.

NCI



Nell



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 06:47:19 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



AWoehlke@aol.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>Can anyone suggest the best places to buy bulk herbs?

>I have been burned in the past with getting adulterated and low quality 

>items, or herbs that were just way overpriced.



Well - WHERE are you?

And, what amounts do you buy?



Good suppliers in the UK: Herbal Apothecary (by the half kilogram); Neal's yard

(by the ounce)

Good suppliers in the US: Frontiers (I don't know minimum amount, perhaps it's

by the ounce), Blessed Herbs (by the lb; don't bother if you only want an ounce)

And MediHerb in straya.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: "natural" <natural@wt.net>

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:09:03 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by natural@wt.net :



> Good suppliers in the US: Frontiers (I don't know minimum amount, perhaps it's

> by the ounce), Blessed Herbs (by the lb; don't bother if you only want an ounce)

> And MediHerb in straya.

>

> Henriette



Henrietta, Frontier sells their bulk herbs by the pound, not ounce.  Great

selection of herbs.  I have a Frontier Co-Op established with them;

basically wholesale prices plus 8% automatic markup from what's in their

catalogue plus S&H.  If you want, I'll call Frontier Monday and ask them if

your listers could use my co-op name to order directly from them to get

these better prices (I wouldn't profit, just believe in helping people get

herbs they can afford).



For really fresh gathered herbs and special orders I've been using Jerry Gut

at http://members.home.net/jerrygut/index.htm.  He's in Canada, used his

herbs for 2 years and very impressed.  Has limited selection online but

takes orders for next growing season for anyone that needs something special

and fresh.



Rosie Lloyd



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: "Graham White" <hendongreen@gn.apc.org>

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 16:25:05 -0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by graham white <hendongreen@gn.apc.org> :



If buying dried herbs in the UK by the half kilo/kilo amount, Hambledon

Herbs is better quality (allegedly - don't know if anyone from HA reads this

list) and are all organic as much as possible.  They are also now producing

a small range of tinctures.  Also Phyto Products sells bulk herbs.



BTW seeing as I'm posting, there is now a producer here in the UK who is

manufacturing commmercially tinctures by a two-step method as discussed on

this list, trading under the name Avicenna.



nci in any of the above.



Cheers



Graham White  B.Sc. (Herb. Med.), MNIMH.

Medical Herbalist

--------------------------------------------------------------------



hendongreen@gn.apc.org



-----Original Message-----

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu <herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu>

Date: 06 February 2000 06:49

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk



>Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



>AWoehlke@aol.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>>Can anyone suggest the best places to buy bulk herbs?

>>I have been burned in the past with getting adulterated and low quality

>>items, or herbs that were just way overpriced.



>Well - WHERE are you?

>And, what amounts do you buy?



>Good suppliers in the UK: Herbal Apothecary (by the half kilogram); Neal's

yard

>(by the ounce)

>Good suppliers in the US: Frontiers (I don't know minimum amount, perhaps

it's

>by the ounce), Blessed Herbs (by the lb; don't bother if you only want an

ounce)

>And MediHerb in straya.



>Henriette



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 13:29:03 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/05/2000 7:18:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

Herbgrow30@aol.com writes:



<< One of my students sends me herbs.  She can be reached at OakCamp@aol.com. 

 

 Barb has wonderful herbs (nci).

  >>



And mine are??   -  



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:  Heavy Metals

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 07:36:56 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



>Remembered I saw something recently - and actually found it!  States

>that the heavy metals and toxins :caesium, mercury, lead and benzol,

>are excreted from the body through body fluids when one drinks

>K*mbucha tea.  This detoxing is due to the presence of glucuronic acid

>which combines with the toxin and passes out in body fluids.



Not to get afoul of the list regs, but your k*mbucha information is in

error.  K*mbucha is approximately 3% acetic acid, like homemade vinegar

but somewhat less strong than commercial vinegar (5%).  It contains

lactic acid, tartaric acid, malic acid, malonic acid, citric acid and

oxalic acid. Reports that the tea contains usnic acid which has

antibiotic qualities and glucuronic acid which helps the liver detox,

have NOT been confirmed by research according to Chris Hobbs, as well as

Osol.  It does contain gluconic acid which is chemically distinct and not

broken down into glucuronic acid in vivo.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

Greatness is always the result of an accumulation of little things: a

million results from an accumulation of ones. If you can appreciate it

when it is only a promise and perfect it when it becomes evident, you are

close to knowing the divine process- Ge Hong



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail order

From: dpotocki <dpotocki@erols.com>

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 09:17:32 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by dpotocki@erols.com :



Jim and Mary Ann:



A local herbalist was a classmate of Jean from "Jean's Greens" and

recommended her highly to me as an ethical and knowledgeable

wildcrafter. I ordered a few things from her and was quite satisfied.

Don't know enough about the medicinal qualities of herbs yet to say

whether Jean's are better than most, but her people are delightful to

deal with, and the gal who recommended her is very knowledgeable.  NCI.

See:



http://www.jeansgreens.com/



Donna



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail order

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 14:10:40 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



Thanks Donna, I had a feeling that she was a good source. Rosemary Gladstar

only mentions a few. I was really impressed with her catalog. Since I hadn't

actually ordered from her yet I decided to just send the info and not

endorse. But I've received a few emails of praise. I think it sounds like

she wins. I have Frontier's catalog also but it is much more expensive and

I'd rather support the smaller herbalist.



Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: cilantro

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:11:11 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :



>  Since I have yet to 

>  see a single hair analysis that does not show some level of metals that 

>  cilantro will get rid of, chances are you got some just not a toxic level 

so 

>  this kind of approach can only serve to help you in the long run. 



Peter, by chance do you keep records of the effects of cilantro or is this

observational. If the latter, may I suggest that you keep records of hair

analysis changes and have the info published in the Townsend Letter

or some other altmed journal/newsletter, in addition to posting on

Henriette's list. I know I'd be interested in this type of information as

would others ..(ie. what levels of which metals & how much of decrease).

In addition, I manage a newsletter service that is distributed inhouse to 

about 350 hospitals and would gladly print the data you tabulate.

This kind of information should be shared ..just a thought.  



Elliot Freeman RPh



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: cilantro

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:43:07 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/09/2000 4:19:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

Elfreem@aol.com writes:



<< Peter, by chance do you keep records of the effects of cilantro or is this

 observational. >>



Elliot,



Gee, why didn't I think of that.  Right now, the results are "observational"  

but I have actualy started to keep charts on clients so with the more recent 

(last 6 months) I have base line info that could be "shared" if the 

individuals don't object and can collect new data with this in mind.  Maybe, 

just maybe,  if the members of the AMA and ADA see enough of this published 

they will start to wake up to what I have come to regard as a much more 

prevalent "underlying casue"  for lots of different ailments.

peter



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Shepherd's Purse

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:46:53 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



I'd like to try shepherd's purse for menorrhagia.  However, Rosemary

Gladstar, in "Herbal Healing for Women" states that it should be used

fresh, or to use a tincture made from fresh herb, since it loses potency

rapidly.  I don't use alcoholic tinctures, and have been unable to find

a glycerite made from the fresh plant.  Anybody have any ideas?



Thanks,

May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Shepherd's Purse

From: Ian and Iris <brooke@jump.net>

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 04:59:33 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by ian and iris <brooke@jump.net> :



	Yes.  If you can find or buy some seeds, grow your own.  It's easy to grow,

tough to keep from growing in fact.  I've even seen it growing in deserts,

tundras, and cracks in concrete. 



	Iris



-- 

Slimy somersaulters 

Singing by moonlight

Slurp up the bugs that give me Ugh!s 

And wish me nighty night.            ---Copyright Iris V. Greene, 1999



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Shepherd's Purse

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:26:44 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



May Terry <mterry@snet.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>I'd like to try shepherd's purse for menorrhagia.  However, Rosemary

>Gladstar, in "Herbal Healing for Women" states that it should be used

>fresh, or to use a tincture made from fresh herb, since it loses potency

>rapidly.  I don't use alcoholic tinctures, and have been unable to find

>a glycerite made from the fresh plant.  Anybody have any ideas?



Freeze it. Mind you, if you freeze it straight from your favorite weed patch

it'll just sit in your freezer; you'll need to clean it and cut it into

tea-sized chunks first.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Shepherd's Purse

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:31:04 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



May;

i don't know if this would help, but Tri-Light herbs (NCI) makes a glycerite 

called HemHalt which contains blue cohosh, bayberry, yarrow and capsicum.  

They have a web site at www.trilightherbs.com.  I have used some of their 

products, happily, but not this one.  the Healthy Baby Supply Company (nci - 

612-225-8535 in MN) has a shepherd's purse tincture.  Again, I haven't used 

this tincture, but have used some of their other products with success.  

Moonflower Natural Products also carries shepherd's purse tinctures.  They 

gear most of their products to midwives.  I have never used theirs,  but 

happened to have an old catalog.  Their number is 503-371-4445.  Both 

Moonflower and Healthy Baby's numbers that I have are rather old, but hope 

this might help you.  Moonflower is a part of Cascade healthCare Products out 

of Oregon.

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Shepherd's Purse

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 06:57:27 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Given that Shepherd's purse is not particularly stable in alcohol, I

doubt it will be stable in glycerite.  Note that alcohol extracts can be

used with most people without adverse consequence, even many alcoholics. 

It disperses the herb far better than glycerin and usually before it

leaves the stomach, so the liver is not usually taxed (and glycerine

isn't completely easy on the liver.)



There are other tannin rich herbs that stop bleeding, and perhaps you

should look to those.  Rosita Arvigo tells of attending a birth with a

ruptured placenta.  She was sent by the midwife out to gather a bunch of

roses, flowers and stems as long as her forearm, and to decoct them. It

worked.  



While cayenne is hemostatic, it doesn't last long.  If you can't use one

herb, there is often another that will help.  



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them."     --- Mother

Teresa



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Shepherd's Purse

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:24:44 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Karen S Vaughan wrote:



> Given that Shepherd's purse is not particularly stable in alcohol, I

> doubt it will be stable in glycerite.



Meaning it should be used in infusion or decoction form?



>  Note that alcohol extracts can be

> used with most people without adverse consequence, even many alcoholics.



Maybe so, but I prefer not to tempt fate, or fool with anything so "cunning,

baffling and powerful" as my addiction to alcohol.



> There are other tannin rich herbs that stop bleeding, and perhaps you

> should look to those.  Rosita Arvigo tells of attending a birth with a

> ruptured placenta.  She was sent by the midwife out to gather a bunch of

> roses, flowers and stems as long as her forearm, and to decoct them. It

> worked.



Wasn't that Rosa multiflora?  I could be wrong.  At any rate, I have read of

other herbs that do work for this.  Anybody care to recommend any?  Preferably

one that is not too hard on the stomach, since mine is very sensitive.



Thanks,

May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Shepherd's Purse

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:39:40 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>Given that Shepherd's purse is not particularly stable in alcohol, I

>doubt it will be stable in glycerite.  



Shepherd's purse (Capsella bursa-pastoris) isn't particularly stable, period.

The same goes for Lemon balm (Melissa).



>There are other tannin rich herbs that stop bleeding, and perhaps you

>should look to those.



It's not the tannins in Capsella which make it work, it doesn't even contain

very much tannin. It's of course the whole plant, but if I were to look for

"the" constituent responsible for the styptic properties I'd go first for the

oils the plant contains. Pretty swirls in the upper layers of your tincture as

you are making it...



...other very efficient styptics? Usnea, in tincture or powder, internally or

topically. If you do use Usnea you should remember that it's a -very-

slow-growing lichen. And it's one that is gone at the very first hint of air

pollution.



So freeze your fresh (or very recently dried) shepherd's purse. It's stable for

2-3 years that way.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Rosemary Gladstar

From: "Richard & Cyndi Ask" <ask@gtii.com>

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:18:57 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Richard & Cyndi Ask <ask@gtii.com> :



Does anyone have contaqct info on her?

Does she have a website?



Richard



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Rosemary Gladstar

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 06:00:03 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



www.sagemountain.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Rosemary Gladstar

From: Greg <patch@berkshire.net>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:23:33 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by greg <patch@berkshire.net> :



>Sent to the herblist by Richard & Cyndi Ask <ask@gtii.com> :

>

>Does anyone have contaqct info on her?

>Does she have a website?

>

>Richard



Richard,



Rosemary's address is :

Sage, PO Box 420, E. Barre,VT 05649

802 479 9825, Fax 802 476 3722

website :

http://www.sagemountain.com



Greg



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Rosemary Gladstar

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:12:30 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



Rosemary is out of the country right now but here is her site 



<A HREF="http://sagemountain.com/">Click here: Sage Mountain Herbs and Sage 

Mountain Retreat Center Welcomes You!</A>

Peter 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: glaucium flavum and ephedra

From: "Antti Hovi" <ahovi@latkk.lpt.fi>

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:08:01 EETDST

--------

Sent to the herblist by antti hovi <ahovi@latkk.lpt.fi> :



A colleague recently came back from eastern Europe with a bronchitis 

and a bottle which contained a pharmacy drug made of glaucium flavum 

(was spelled glaucinum) and ephedra. 

How is glaucium flavum (maiden poppy?) effective in bronchitis? 

Label said constituents were glaucinum hydrobromicum and ephedrinum 

hydrochloricum and essential oil of basil. Does this mean a product 

with only a pure compound of ephedra or has the whole plant been used 

in production of this medicine?

He said that the product did not help him with bronchitis (in 

getting mucus out of lungs) but tasted bad enough. 

Is there still some herbs he could take after being one week in 

fever?

The place he had visited was obviously quite small, because the only 

pharmacy was closed with a sign "closed because of influenza (of the 

owner".



Antti Hovi

antti.hovi@helsinki.fi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: glaucium flavum and ephedra

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:27:12 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Antti Hovi" <ahovi@latkk.lpt.fi> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>A colleague recently came back from eastern Europe with a bronchitis 

>and a bottle which contained a pharmacy drug made of glaucium flavum 

>(was spelled glaucinum) and ephedra. 



Looking at the ephedrine lower down my guess is that this is NOT glaucium, but

glaucine - most likely a purified alkaloid.



>How is glaucium flavum (maiden poppy?) effective in bronchitis? 



Poppies generally dampen the expectorant reflex. The ones that -are- used in

coughs (no, you can't use all of them) are used for dry coughs - the kind where

you just can't stop your resultless, almost spasmodic coughing.

Antispasmodic cough syrups that contain codeine, papaverine and other poppy

alkaloids (pharmacy bottles, at least over here) work the same way.



So, he's got lots of crud in his lungs and needs to get that up? Unh-hnnn. 

Why, then, is he taking a cough reflex suppressant?



>Label said constituents were glaucinum hydrobromicum and ephedrinum 

>hydrochloricum and essential oil of basil. Does this mean a product 

>with only a pure compound of ephedra or has the whole plant been used 

>in production of this 



A hydrobromide of glaucine and a hydrochloride of ephedrine? This is NOT herbs,

this is laboratory-based pharmacy.



>Is there still some herbs he could take after being one week in 

>fever?



Sure, but it's better to fit the herbs to his problem rather than take the first

bottle that says "cough" off your average pharmacy shelf.



If he indeed does have a slimy cough he should throw out his cough suppressant

mix. For lung crud there are not many herbs that are better than Cetraria,

provided you add taste modifiers to his hot Cetraria tea. These taste modifiers

should include loads of thyme.



And frequent small doses of Echinacea should help his immune system get rid of

the pathogens which are keeping him in fever.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: glaucium flavum and ephedra

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:58:53 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



I am not familiar with glauci(n)um flavum, don't know if there exists a

botanical species by that name.  Glaucinum hydrobromicum (hydrobromide in

English) looks more pharmaceutical than botanical, same for ephedrinum

hydrochloricum, which would be ephedrine hydrochloride in English.  Was this

pharmacy preparation intended for infectious or noninfectious bronchitis?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: glaucium flavum and ephedra

From: "Antti Hovi" <ahovi@latkk.lpt.fi>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:31:04 EETDST

--------

Sent to the herblist by antti hovi <ahovi@latkk.lpt.fi> :



>t mueller wrote Thu, 10 Feb 2000 

>dont know if there exists a botanical species by that name.



The bottle was a bit misleading for a chemical product, because there 

was a nice picture of glaucium flavum (a poppy) - so this plant 

species does exist, I presume. 



>looks more pharmaceutical than botanical



Thank you for convincing me that the contents were 

chemically altered, this I tried to find out for certain. I thought 

they might have invented a new extraction method with hydrobromide 

(whatever it is) or hydrochloride instead of conventional alcohol 

etc.  : )



>Was this pharmacy preparation intended for infectious or 

noninfectious bronchitis?



All we could read from the Cyrilic alphabets (real hieroglyphs) and 

russian language   stated that it was intended for chronic and 

asthmatic bronchitis. So it is for noninfectious bronchitis, is it?

I think it is for dry coughing and an exactly opposite medicine for 

my colleagues condition as would be needed, like Henriette said

. 

My colleague said in telephone that he had stopped taking the 

medicine after feeling the first reactions after first teaspoonfuls. 

So he was on the right track already before I had told him Henriettes 

advice of cetraria etc (message number 37, 10 Feb 2000). 

A doctor gave him some antibiotics also.



I hope you could tell us more, what difference infectious or 

noninfectious bronchitis means considering which herbs to take?



Antti Hovi

antti.hovi@helsinki.fi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: glaucium flavum and ephedra

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 06:34:28 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Chronic or asthmatic bronchitis sounds noninfectious to me.  As for what kind of

cough that medicine is for, I can't really tell from here.  Fighting an

infection is quite different from a noninfectious irritation.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Nose allergy question

From: R Dresner <saopedro@yahoo.com>

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:34:13 -0800 (PST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by r dresner <saopedro@yahoo.com> :



I've been using a steroidal nose spray for a nose allergy (to fungus spores) for nearly 3 years

now, and I really want to find an alternative treatment. I've been sick with colds and throat

infections 8 times since last fall, and I think my immune system may be compromised by the spray.



I understand from reading this list that I need something to desensitise the body as well as

supporting the liver. Can anyone suggest a course of treatment which would allow me to

progressively eliminate the spray?



Your help would be much appreciated, I'm desperate to get back to being *naturally* healthy.



Rick Dresner

saopedro@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

http://im.yahoo.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:27:39 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



R Dresner <saopedro@yahoo.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>I've been using a steroidal nose spray for a nose allergy (to fungus spores) for nearly 3 years



You have been slowly killing off your nasal mucous membrane. Getting off the

nose spray will be a real bitch.



Do mucilage. Lots and then some. Aim at going through a pound of flax seeds

every two weeks for the next 6 months, while reducing the dose of your nosespray

over the next three months to zilch, zero, nada, and none.



You could also do mallows, or Plantago sp., but flaxseed is both universally

available and cheap.



How do you use flaxseed? Stir 1 tablespoon flaxseeds into a glass of water (8

ounces or 2 dl, whichever measurement you like better). Make sure that it

doesn't stick together, let sit for 20 minutes, drink water including seeds. If

you have a small coffee grinder grind up your seeds first.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:23:47 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



tmueller@bluegrass.net wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>>I've been using a steroidal nose spray for a nose allergy (to fungus spores) for nearly 3 years

>>You have been slowly killing off your nasal mucous membrane. Getting off the

>>nose spray will be a real bitch.

>Does this apply to steroid inhalers as well, so standard in the conventional

>western medicine treatment of asthma?



Well, yes. You are suppressing a major function of one (or more) of your mucous

membranes. 



You probably get every single lung crud that's doing the rounds, too.



>Is flax seed toxic in large quantity, especially raw?  



Oh yes, you're right, that could be a concern, especially if you grind them

first. Mmm. Use slippery elm then, a tablespoon in a glass of water, well

stirred, 3-5 times a day.



>One pound in two weeks seems like a lot.



Yes, but flax seed is rather heavy, so half a kilogram is not as much as half a

kilogram of most any herb leaf or flower.



>How much Plantago or Malva would one use, 



An equivalent amount, also as cold-water macerations.



>and would it relieve 12-month allergic rhinitis over a long term?



You can try it, but no herb in the world will help you unless you remove the

-cause- of your allergic rhinitis. Liver herbs will help your allergies and

sensitivities.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 06:34:30 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>Well, yes. You are suppressing a major function of one (or more) of your mucous

>membranes.



I suppose a lot of people these days, including doctors, think of mucous

membranes as a creation of the devil, that their function is just a nuisance.



>You probably get every single lung crud that's doing the rounds, too.



More trips to the doctor and antibiotic prescriptions: more money for the

medical-pharmaceutical industry.



>Oh yes, you're right, that could be a concern, especially if you grind them

>first. Mmm. Use slippery elm then, a tablespoon in a glass of water, well

>stirred, 3-5 times a day.



Flax seeds can be cooked, with grains and beans for instance.  I have one more

cooking remaining on one pound slippery elm bark, and don't intend to buy any

more.  Why not oat groats or sweet brown rice instead?  But mucilaginous herbs

seem to have no special effect on me.



Among the liver herbs, does your recommendation of berberis include Oregon grape

too?  Taxonomists are at variance over the genus name, Berberis or Mahonia.

John Lust's Herb Book has a long list of herbs under LIVER, page 73-74.  I am

curious what burdock tastes like, having had only the Japanese cultivated

variety.



How much milk thistle seeds should one take per day, if it is ground into

powder, or how long should it take to finish one pound bag (453.6g)?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 13:03:34 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



tmueller@bluegrass.net wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>Flax seeds can be cooked, with grains and beans for instance.  I have one more

>cooking remaining on one pound slippery elm bark, and don't intend to buy any

>more.  



Oh, the slippery elm situation isn't as bad as all that. Did they find a

resistant strain, some more healthy stands, or did they find out that other elm

species also could supply the bark? I don't remember, but it seems it's

sustainable after all.



>Why not oat groats or sweet brown rice instead?



If you're talking slimy foods, you should talk okra, not rice or oats.



>Among the liver herbs, does your recommendation of berberis include Oregon grape

>too?  Taxonomists are at variance over the genus name, Berberis or Mahonia.



First they were Berberis and Mahonia. Or were they all Berberis at first? I

don't really care... Anyways, the discussions went somewhat like this: 

First a botanist got up and said, "looky here, these have spiny leaves, right?

These have spiny stems. Clearly very different from each other." Thus, Berberis

and Mahonia. 

Then another botanist got up and said, "Can't you tell that the flowers are

close to identical? They're all Berberis," and he goes off, muttering

'dimwits...'. So they were all Berberis.

Yet another botanist got up and said, "Braindead morons, the lot of you. Check

this, spiny leaf, spiny stem. The same genus? Ha!" Thus they were Mahonia and

Berberis.

The next one got up and said "Wheee, guys, check -this- species! It's got the

leaf of Mahonia and the stem of Berberis (..or something such), they -must- be

the same genus!"



They're still slugging it out. Currently they're all Berberis. I think.



Herbalists have long known that the yellow roots and rootbarks of Mahonia and

Berberis are close to identical, in medicinal effects. Mahonia has perhaps a tad

more variety in its uses, but getting worked up over that rather unimportant

point might make us look just as silly as the botanists, and we don't want that,

eh?



The leaf of Mahonia is excellent in salves, provided it has yellow veins - use

that salve for folks with eczema, especially psoriatics. And give them Berberis

or Mahonia internally.



The berries of some Berberis species, especially B. vulgaris as growing in

Europe, has been used, as juice, instead of lemon juice; don't try to use it for

that if the berries of your bush don't pucker up your mouth with their sourness.

Other Berberis berries are rather bland. The berries of Mahonia are edible, too,

and you can make them into a jam with apples - but the jam is better if you

leave out the Mahonia berries...



So yes, you can use Mahonia root just as well as Berberis root, for your liver.



>John Lust's Herb Book has a long list of herbs under LIVER, page 73-74.  I am

>curious what burdock tastes like, having had only the Japanese cultivated

>variety.



Wild burdock root has a nice nutty almost sweet flavor, tinged with a taste of

dirt. It can't be compared with the nonflavor of cultivated Gobo. However, and

this the books don't tell you, the leaf works just as nicely, is very much (and

we're talking -hours- of sweat here) easier to gather, and is available most of

the year, whereas you dig roots in fall or latest in early summer. Now, the leaf

will make you pee more (a LOT more), but if you have ever dug burdock root you

-really- don't care about that detail. I remember all those bundles of burdock

leaf, hung up to dry, just a few months ago ... and can you believe, they're all

gone already? Sob. It's at least three months until we have more burdock around

these parts. And it's snowing again. (I'll go make some more snowmen soon.

Promise.)



You can also use burdock seeds, but they contain rather a lot of, umm, protein,

which in your jar of dried seeds will transform itself into a layer of dead

flies... so if you pick them, tincture them fresh.



Oh, and the books also tell you that it has to be Arctium lappa. Now, some

botanists say there's only one species of Arctium, and that's lappa. I'd really

like to see those guys defending their point of view when they see the

yellow-flowered species that grows in Denmark and south from there... anyway.

Use any Arctium you can lay your hands on, but take into account that they

-like- stony sandy poor dirt, and the roots won't be very strong at all if grown

in good humus.



>How much milk thistle seeds should one take per day, if it is ground into

>powder, or how long should it take to finish one pound bag (453.6g)?



Silybum is on the restricted plant list over here. Thus, I can't give it to my

clients, thus, I don't use it. If I did, I'd tincture it and use 30-60 drops 3-6

x / day.

But if you grow milk thistle yourself: the leaves are a treat in salads, or as

simple snacks. All you need is a sauce made with sourcream and some nice spices

... yum! Scissors are the best (easiest, fastest) way to get rid of those

vicious spines.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 05:09:16 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>I've been using a steroidal nose spray for a nose allergy (to fungus spores) for nearly 3 years



>You have been slowly killing off your nasal mucous membrane. Getting off the

>nose spray will be a real bitch.



Does this apply to steroid inhalers as well, so standard in the conventional

western medicine treatment of asthma?



Is flax seed toxic in large quantity, especially raw?  One pound in two weeks

seems like a lot.



How much Plantago or Malva would one use, and would it relieve 12-month allergic

rhinitis over a long term?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:43:40 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Henriette;

you've included so much interesting information!  But my question lies with 

what your said (and others) about flax seed.  

I want to take flax seed, vs., say primrose, for a good supply of efa's.  I 

have some powdered stuff to stir into juice, but I'd really like to bake it 

into my whole grains.  However, I have read that once you apply heat to 

flaxseed, the beneficial effects are destroyed.  Otherwise, I would also like 

to add it while cooking grains, rice, and legumes.  Would it work better if 

it wasn't ground up first,or do you cook with it whole?  

thanks for your help

diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 06:52:20 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Slippery elm does not live up to its touted benefits with me, so I see no reason

to buy more, though it does not hurt me.  Sweet brown rice is sticky, somewhat

slimy.  Last time I ate okra was about 16 years ago, and it tended to play dirty

tricks on my digestion, giving me putrefaction/indigestion, quite in contrast to

any thought of the sliminess being soothing.  Slimy foods don't seem to confer

any particular advantage to me.



I saw an Oregon grape shrub (Mahonia aquifolium) at the Atlanta Botanical

Garden, but of course I couldn't take anything.  I have eaten fresh barberries,

probably Berberis vulgaris, they were rather sour.



I don't see/taste any attraction in cultivated gobo/burdock.  Maybe the Japanese

fry it in batter?  Surely not worth the high price, I'll settle for carrots.



Why would Silybum be on the restricted plant list in Finland?  Endangered or

threatened species?  Or maybe a noxious weed?  Milk thistle seeds are surely not

too dangerous to take without medical supervision, surely not one of the

higher-risk herbs.  Or is Finland protecting their medical-pharmaceutical

industry?   If one has a grinder, it seems that way would be easier and simpler

than tincture.



I sometimes grind flax seeds to use with wheat in bread.  I also sometimes cook

flax seeds with grains and beans, without grinding.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:54:39 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



tmueller@bluegrass.net wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>any thought of the sliminess being soothing.  Slimy foods don't seem to confer

>any particular advantage to me.



So do some Calendula.



>Why would Silybum be on the restricted plant list in Finland?  

> Or is Finland protecting their medical-pharmaceutical industry?



Yep. To such a degree that even pumpkin seeds are "pharmaceutical company

only"... because they contain so much zinc that they work for benign prostatic

hypertrophy (BPH).



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 06:29:27 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>

Yep. To such a degree that even pumpkin seeds are "pharmaceutical company

only"... because they contain so much zinc that they work for benign prostatic

hypertrophy (BPH).

>

Maybe Finland might want to ban carrots for too much vitamin A and citrus fruits

for too much vitamin C?  Apples for too much pectin?  I believe most people in

the U.S.A. think of pumpkin seeds as food rather than drug, comparable to

sunflower and sesame seeds.  Also, pumpkins are a Halloween tradition.



Regarding polyunsaturated fatty acids in flax seeds and fish, aren't there other

plant sources?  Walnuts, pecans, hickory nuts, filberts, almonds, sunflower

seeds, sesame seeds, pumpkin seeds, etc?



Would liver herbs have any effect on nasal and bronchial mucous membrane

hyperactivity from a nonallergic irritant, such as garlic or raw onions in my

case?  It seems that a small amount of raw garlic, like one-half normal clove,

cut small and wrapped in a cooked collard or other leaf, taken with other items

so that I can't even taste the garlic, is not safe, at least not safe on a

frequent basis like once or more per day.  Raw onions, green or bulb, are too

irritating to me, cooked apparently OK.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:45:43 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



tmueller@bluegrass.net wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>Regarding polyunsaturated fatty acids in flax seeds and fish, aren't there other

>plant sources?  Walnuts, pecans, hickory nuts, filberts, almonds, sunflower

>seeds, sesame seeds, pumpkin seeds, etc?



There are lots of plant sources for polyunsaturated EFAs. However, the most

effective ones, in human supplemental terms, have gone through one (or more)

fish.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nose allergy question

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:11:10 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



AWoehlke@aol.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>Henriette;

>you've included so much interesting information!  But my question lies with 

>what your said (and others) about flax seed.  

>I want to take flax seed, vs., say primrose, for a good supply of efa's.  I 



You want to use your flax seed almost straight after grinding it. The fats go

rancid -very- fast.



And, if you do check the web on "effective" omega-3 and omega-6 oils, you'll

note that only the flax seed oil manufacturers try to convince you that flax

seed is the best source of polyunsaturated fatty acids. All others say that the

oil from fatty fish is -far- better.



So do codliver oil instead.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:  (Frontier) best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in	bulk  

From: Tjk469@aol.com

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:57:52 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Tjk469@aol.com :



Re:  Frontier Natural Products



I believe that they only sell to businesses as they ask for a federal tax ID 

number or resale tax number.  Frontier is a co-op which you can be a member 

of. If you are not a member you pay a 10% surcharge.  Ex: lavender flowers 

whole per lb. is $8.85 if you are not a member you would pay an additional 

10%.  I would contact them directly for more information.  1-800-717-4372



Tammy Kilen

Bath Body & Soul

Bath and Body Products



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: (Frontier) best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs in	bulk  

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:03:45 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



My order form for Frontier does NOT ask for either tax number.  The prices

aren't wholesale either. For example: a pound of whole lavender flowers in

Frontier is $19.05, at Jean's Greens - $17.90, from Herbal Healer Academy -

$19.25.



This Frontier catalog is one that I received for free when I requested a

copy from their website. You can also order from the website. So I think

they sell both wholesale and retail.



Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: High Blood pressure

From: "Julia A. Baker" <jules@ctcn.net>

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:09:27 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by julia a. baker <jules@ctcn.net> :



Kat,

I have run into that more often lately.  I am a nurse at a prison and had one of

the officers ask me the same question not long ago.  He flat out refused to take

the medication and wondered why the doctor hadn't recommended something else

first.  His blood pressure was not morbidly high, so I suggested a diet lower in

fat and higher in fruits and vegetables, especially fresh ones.  I also

recommended he increase his exercise by walking.  He started out with a mile 3

times weekly and worked up to almost 2 miles daily.  Over the course of 3 months,

he lost slightly over 20 pounds and when he went back to his doctor, his blood

pressure was within acceptable range.  He told his doctor what he was doing and

the doctor requested that he continue.

Several years ago, I had a similar B/P problem and was able to come off all meds

by shedding 50 pounds by the method I recommended to the officer.

It's always best to get the doctors approval before starting a diet and exercise

plan.  If his blood pressure is to abnormal, a combination of medication and diet

and exercise will help bring it within normal much quicker.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Horse chestnut

From: Miriam Kresh <miriam_k@netvision.net.il>

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 03:58:52 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by miriam_k@netvision.net.il :



How would one make a preparation of horse chestnut? Where I live (Israel) they

can be bought raw in plenty at this season, but I'm not sure what part  people

are referring to:  the leaf, the fruit (with or without its thin shell), or even

the bark? I am interested in making an infused oil, following Peter's suggestion

to use horse chestnut, comfrey, cayenne and SJW for nerve damage and The Big

Bruise.



Regards,

Miriam Kresh



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Horse chestnut

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:10:40 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



>How would one make a preparation of horse chestnut? Where I live

(Israel) they

>can be bought raw in plenty at this season, but I'm not sure what part 

people

>are referring to:  the leaf, the fruit (with or without its thin shell),

or even

>the bark? I am interested in making an infused oil,



Slice and dry the green fruit or branch bark.  Don't use it fresh or

toxicity can be a problem.  Use the dried leaves to make infused oils or

salves.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them."     --- Mother

Teresa



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Horse chestnut

From: Christa Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:53 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by cmaria@triton.net :



Hi Miriam..

The Horse Chestnut ( Aesculus hippocastanium)

From Lust:....Leaves,  green capsules, seeds can cause poisoning if

taken in sufficient amounts. Roasting  the seeds seems to destroy the

poison in them...

Infusion: Steep 1 tsp. bark ( from branches) in one cup of water

Powder: Take  1/2 tsp. for diarrhea, varicose veins, and hemorrhoids,

For catarhh, take 1/4 to 1/2 tsp. two times a day.

Bath additive: Boil 2 to 2 1/2 punds chopped fruit in water and add the

resulting liquid to bath water.

..It says nothing about infused oils, but it's my guess that either you

take the dried twigs and grind or smash them good, than infuse them with

olive oil, let stand for a week or so in a warm place , than strain the

oil..Or do the same with the dried seeds..

I really don't know, some plants you can extract the healing qualitites

that way, some you can't..some give up their medicines in oil, some in

water and some in alcohol...

Horsechestnut  is much more used in Europe for inflamed veins than in

the US.I've got a nice 'gel' from GErmany, called Beinoil that has it in

the formula and works well...

( I do remember that when very small and having chestcolds, my

grandmother would wrap hot chestnuts in a towel and put on my

chest.....)

Henriette??

C-M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Horse chestnut

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:21:40 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 03:58:52 +0200, Miriam Kresh <miriam_k@netvision.net.il>

wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>How would one make a preparation of horse chestnut? Where I live (Israel) they

>can be bought raw in plenty at this season, 



Are you sure that's -horse- chestnut (Aesculus) and not chestnut (Castanea)?

Horse chestnut is good for varicose veins and hemorrhoids externally, among

other things, and it's excellent for portal vein congestion internally. 

Castanea chestnut is just good eating.



>but I'm not sure what part  people

>are referring to:  the leaf, the fruit (with or without its thin shell), or even

>the bark? I am interested in making an infused oil, following Peter's suggestion

>to use horse chestnut, comfrey, cayenne and SJW for nerve damage and The Big

>Bruise.



This is specifically horse chestnut:



I've made a salve with fresh sliced green fruit, dried sliced green fruit, and

dried bark strips.



They all work very nicely.



I strip barks of fallen branches, right after storms. And it's easy to jump up

and grab hands full of green fruit, they grow sort of in droves. If you wait

until they've fallen down they're too hard to slice into, and thus too hard to

use. Sure, you can use fresh or dried leaf, too, in salves, if you want. Don't

strip them off branches still on trees, wait until you have a big storm.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Horse chestnut

From: Miriam Kresh <miriam_k@netvision.net.il>

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:05:25 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by miriam_k@netvision.net.il :



Henriette Kress wrote:



> Are you sure that's -horse- chestnut (Aesculus) and not chestnut (Castanea)?



Of course, Henriette... what I see around here is Castanea. Looked up Aesculus in my

plant guides for this region, and do not see references to it, although it grows as

close as Turkey. Oh well...



Thank you for the information, and many thanks also to Christa Maria and to Karen for

their input.



Regards,

Miriam



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: arm pain

From: "Sophie Pip" <sophiepip@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:36:21 PST

--------

Sent to the herblist by sophie pip <sophiepip@hotmail.com> :



Hello herb people,

I just developed a problem and any advice would be welcome.

Yesterday I was handing something (it was just a light little box)

to somebody and got a really painful cramp in my upper arm. It lasted for 

(seemed like an eternity) about 2-3 min. It went away and my arm was just a 

little sore. This morn. it was just a little sore but no big deal. Then this 

aft. it started to hurt big time and by now I can hardly lift it.

There is pain in my shoulder, the outside of my arm (and a little down my 

back).

Thanks for any suggestions you have.

Sophie

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: arm pain

From: "Mike & Linda Shipley" <n5wuh@ionet.net>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:33:10 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by n5wuh@ionet.net :



I would take a good calcium/magnesium liquid.

Linda



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: For a friend -- Copper

From: Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:42:39 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com> :



A friend to whom I've been enthusing about this list and my renewed interest

in herbs asked me to ask the general group:



> does anyone know of specific

> ill effects for an adult who  drinks water with a high copper component

[content]?



Thanks,



Eloriel



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: For a friend -- Copper

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:42:51 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Excessive copper is implicated in a variety of disorders.  But follow

Peter's advice about testing first, because high copper in water does not

necessarily tell you what is being absorbed.  Absorbtion depends upon

bioavailability of the form of the copper ingested as well as the body of

the recipient and his intestinal bacteria.



Copper assists in the formation of hemoglobin and the transportation of

iron.  It is part of collagen and elastin and is necessary for the

formation of myelin sheaths.  It acts as an antioxidant in SOD, but can

also be a dangerous free radical if not bound to the protein ceruplasmin.

 It may cause migraines, is implicated in Wilson's disease, and may cause

poor memory, depression, insomnia, joint and muscle pain and nausea. 

Coupled with excessive selenium it can cause cancer. 



Cocoa powder, Brazil nuts, prunes, cashews, bananas, kelp and sunflower

seeds are herbal sources of copper.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them."     --- Mother

Teresa



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: herbs and cholesterol

From: Ian and Iris <brooke@jump.net>

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 04:19:00 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by ian and iris <brooke@jump.net> :



> Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



> Eating cholesterol is not what creates over-production of

> cholesterol.  In fact many vegans have seriously high cholesterol because

> the body goes into overproduction to compensate.  Cholesterol is the

> building block of hormones and the body needs to make sure some is

> around.



	I agree.  Cholesterol levels don't always correlate to eating animal products.



	I had an acquaintance in college who was of normal healthy weight and build. 

She got plenty of exercise, and was on a strict vegan diet all her life.  She

had a cholesterol level of over 1000!  Her blood, in fact, was so full of

cholesterol it was PINK!  In her case, the cholesterol was being overproduced by

her liver... a genetic problem, they said.  She went on lipitor and soon after

had to have her gallbladder removed, then she graduated and moved away and we

lost contact. 



	I've tried a "low-cholesterol" diet for a year with no improvement in my

cholesterol levels (they stayed around 300, and my HDLs were always too low). 

So I gave it up.  Years later  I changed my diet to eating whole, natural,

unprocessed organic foods including organic EGGS, artichokes, dandelions, and

thistles.  Among other positive changes to my health, it also lowered my

cholesterol levels.  It -finally- dropped to around 180, and my HDL profile

looked exemplary.  So, you decide what's better... the "low cholesterol" diets,

or a naturally balanced diet with herbs that are good for the liver.



	Best,

	 Iris



-- 

Slimy somersaulters 

Singing by moonlight

Slurp up the bugs that give me Ugh!s 

And wish me nighty night.            ---Copyright Iris V. Greene, 1999



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: (Frontier) best mail-order, or on-line place to buy herbs 	in	bulk  

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 06:40:42 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Frontier sells herbs to individuals as buying clubs.  Your social

security number is your federal tax ID number.  That way when they send

you member premiums they can report it to the feds.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them."     --- Mother

Teresa



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: nose allergy question

From: "Mike & Linda Shipley" <n5wuh@ionet.net>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:39:54 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by n5wuh@ionet.net :



I am sure you will hear from people on this list steroidal nose sprays are

no good. I saw an herbal nose spray at the health food store the other day.

I started to buy it but couldn't think of who to buy it for. :) Well, there

are homeopathic sinus medications but they are difficult to take since they

are taken every hour, etc.  I also have a sinus support herb which is

horseradish and eyebright. If the problem needs a cool herb, I don't know. I

would look at diet to see if anything is aggravating the allergy.

Acupuncture might help too. I am being helped with a sugar allergy by

acupuncture by a Chinese healer.

Linda S.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Cetraria (was: glaucium flavum, ephedra)

From: Ian and Iris <brooke@jump.net>

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:12:27 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by ian and iris <brooke@jump.net> :



	About Cetraria and lung crud-



	Can Cetraria grow in the Southern US? (Zone border between 7 and 8).  If so,

where might I get seeds or plants to give it a try?



	Does it matter which species of Cetraria is used?



	TIA,

	Iris



-- 

Slimy somersaulters 

Singing by moonlight

Slurp up the bugs that give me Ugh!s 

And wish me nighty night.            ---Copyright Iris V. Greene, 1999



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Cetraria (was: glaucium flavum, ephedra)

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:46:35 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



On Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:12:27 -0600, Ian and Iris <brooke@jump.net> wrote to

herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>	Can Cetraria grow in the Southern US? (Zone border between 7 and 8).  



Possibly. But it'd be very high up in the mountains, close to the timberline.



>If so, where might I get seeds or plants to give it a try?



One gets spores, or bits of dried lichen. Note that the bits of dried lichen

will die very soon if they get moisture in a region with air pollution.



>	Does it matter which species of Cetraria is used?



As far as I know there's only the one. Pictures of it online among my plant

pictures: http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed/pictures/herbpics.html - go for

Cetraria.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Cetraria (was: glaucium flavum, ephedra)

From: "Giles" <gil@alltel.net>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 22:58:50 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by gil <gil@alltel.net> :



>As far as I know there's only the one. Pictures of it online among my plant

>pictures: http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed/pictures/herbpics.html - go for

>Cetraria.

>

>Henriette,

Thank you. The photos are wonderful. The second photo is simply beautiful.

>

>--

>hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

>                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

>Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: shepherd's purse

From: "xana.oliveira" <xana.oliveira@clix.pt>

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:46:37 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by xana.oliveira <xana.oliveira@clix.pt> :



can anyone tell me the latin name of shepherd's purse?

I tried to find it in Portugal under it's translation, but nobody knew it.

Thank you.

Sandra Oliveira Almeida

xana.oliveira@clix.pt

Seixal-Portugal



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: shepherd's purse

From: Ian and Iris <brooke@jump.net>

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:09:29 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by ian and iris <brooke@jump.net> :



> can anyone tell me the latin name of shepherd's purse?



 Sure.  It's Capsella bursa-pastoris.  :)



	Best,

	 Iris

 

-- 

Slimy somersaulters 

Singing by moonlight

Slurp up the bugs that give me Ugh!s 

And wish me nighty night.            ---Copyright Iris V. Greene, 1999



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: shepherd's purse

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:57:45 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



plantpeople wrote:



>  Our local midwives will not work with glycerine tincture of shepherds

> purse,

>  finding it ineffective.  I have supplied them with the tincture in the past

>  and they find the potency noticably diminishes after a full year (they

> store

>  it at room temperature).



Thank you for this information.  I'd be sure to tincture the fresh (or frozen)

herb in small amounts and use it up quickly.



>  For excessive menstrual flow, I would turn to strong sage tea first for

> symptomatic relief, or if something stronger needed, 00 capsules with equal

> parts 190,000 heat units cayenne and fresh ground cinnamon bark, taking one

> every 15-20 minutes.  Then evaulate for possibility of underlying endocrine

> weakness.



I'm premenstrual, but other tests are apparently normal.  I'm concerned about

the cayenne as a stomach irritant; I know some people say that's just a myth,

but...anyone want to comment?



> Also, as a once heavy drinker myself, I find the sugar in foods more of a

> problem than the alcohol in tinctures.

> The Health Resouce Center that specializes in alcoholism (reference: 7 Weeks

> to Sobriety) tests nearly 95% of they alcoholics they treat as hypoglycemic.

> The small amount of alcohol (which the body treats as a highly refined

> sugar) you get in a dose of tincture has less effect on blood sugar than a

> tablespoon of store bought.... ketchup



I have tested hypoglycemic (blood sugar at 45 at the end of a four-hour glucose

tolerance test), but I'm still concerned about the small amount of alcohol in

tinctures.  I just prefer not to go there.  But thanks to all who have commented

on this subject!



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: best mail order, or on-line place to buy herbs in bulk

From: thimbleberry@juno.com

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:02:51 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by t b <thimbleberry@juno.com> :



In my opinion, Mountain Rose Herbs (nci) at

www.botancial.com/mtrose has better quality product

than Frontier, and Pacific Botanicals (nci) at 

www.pacificbotanicals.com has even better quality product.



Thimbleberry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: re: Cetraria

From: "Antti Hovi" <ahovi@latkk.lpt.fi>

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:00:23 EETDST

--------

Sent to the herblist by antti hovi <ahovi@latkk.lpt.fi> :



> Does it matter which species of Cetraria is used?



>As far as I know theres only the one. Picture of it online among my 

plant pictures (Henriette)



I did not find information how south Cetraria islandica grows in USA, 

but there are actually more than one specie. (Because of digest I do 

not know if Sinikka has answered this yet. If she has, you can 

all stop reading this now!

According to the knowledge of the 80-ies, there were 40-50 Cetraria 

species. Now they have been partly divided into other species. 

Then we had in Finland 15 Cetrarias, but now 7 has been put to other 

species and 8 Cetrarias are left.

Two yellow-colored Cetrarias are actually poisonous: C. pinastri 

(tree trunks, rocks)  and C. juniperina (on juniper, lime alps).

Cetraria islandica can have many colour shades (light chestnut brown 

etc) but can hardly be mistaken for (usually bright) yellow 

Cetrarias. 

Cetraria islandica grows in barren and rocky pine forests, often with 

Vaccinium vitis-idea (lingonberry/cowberry) and Arctostaphylos 

uva-ursi (bearberry). It is abundant at least in Canada, reindeers 

and caribous like to eat it.



Antti Hovi  



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: shepher's purse

From: "plantpeople" <plantpeople@triton.net>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 01:04:35 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by plantpeople@triton.net :



 > I'd like to try shepherd's purse for menorrhagia.  However, Rosemary

 > Gladstar, in "Herbal Healing for Women" states that it should be used

 > fresh, or to use a tincture made from fresh herb, since it loses potency

 > rapidly.  I don't use alcoholic tinctures, and have been unable to find

 > a glycerite made from the fresh plant.  Anybody have any ideas?



 Our local midwives will not work with glycerine tincture of shepherds

purse,

 finding it ineffective.  I have supplied them with the tincture in the past

 and they find the potency noticably diminishes after a full year (they

store

 it at room temperature).



 For excessive menstrual flow, I would turn to strong sage tea first for

symptomatic relief, or if something stronger needed, 00 capsules with equal

parts 190,000 heat units cayenne and fresh ground cinnamon bark, taking one

every 15-20 minutes.  Then evaulate for possibility of underlying endocrine

weakness.



Also, as a once heavy drinker myself, I find the sugar in foods more of a

problem than the alcohol in tinctures.

The Health Resouce Center that specializes in alcoholism (reference: 7 Weeks

to Sobriety) tests nearly 95% of they alcoholics they treat as hypoglycemic.

The small amount of alcohol (which the body treats as a highly refined

sugar) you get in a dose of tincture has less effect on blood sugar than a

tablespoon of store bought.... ketchup

JoyceW



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: shepher's purse

From: "plantpeople" <plantpeople@triton.net>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 01:04:35 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by plantpeople@triton.net :



 > I'd like to try shepherd's purse for menorrhagia.  However, Rosemary

 > Gladstar, in "Herbal Healing for Women" states that it should be used

 > fresh, or to use a tincture made from fresh herb, since it loses potency

 > rapidly.  I don't use alcoholic tinctures, and have been unable to find

 > a glycerite made from the fresh plant.  Anybody have any ideas?



 Our local midwives will not work with glycerine tincture of shepherds

purse,

 finding it ineffective.  I have supplied them with the tincture in the past

 and they find the potency noticably diminishes after a full year (they

store

 it at room temperature).



 For excessive menstrual flow, I would turn to strong sage tea first for

symptomatic relief, or if something stronger needed, 00 capsules with equal

parts 190,000 heat units cayenne and fresh ground cinnamon bark, taking one

every 15-20 minutes.  Then evaulate for possibility of underlying endocrine

weakness.



Also, as a once heavy drinker myself, I find the sugar in foods more of a

problem than the alcohol in tinctures.

The Health Resouce Center that specializes in alcoholism (reference: 7 Weeks

to Sobriety) tests nearly 95% of they alcoholics they treat as hypoglycemic.

The small amount of alcohol (which the body treats as a highly refined

sugar) you get in a dose of tincture has less effect on blood sugar than a

tablespoon of store bought.... ketchup

JoyceW



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: St. John's Wort

From: "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:15:01 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by poutinen, jay <jpoutine@uwsp.edu> :



Health professionals are notified of the possibility of drug interactions

between St. John's Wort (hypericum perforatum), an herbal product sold as a

dietary supplement, and indinavir, a protease inhibitor used to treat HIV

infection.  A study conducted by the National Institutes of Health showed

that a significant drug interaction substantially decreased indinavir plasma

concentrations, potentially due to induction of the cytochrome P450

metabolic pathway.  For a copy of the Public Health Advisory see:

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/advisory/stjwort.htm



MedWatch



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: St. John's Wort

From: "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:15:01 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by poutinen, jay <jpoutine@uwsp.edu> :



Health professionals are notified of the possibility of drug interactions

between St. John's Wort (hypericum perforatum), an herbal product sold as a

dietary supplement, and indinavir, a protease inhibitor used to treat HIV

infection.  A study conducted by the National Institutes of Health showed

that a significant drug interaction substantially decreased indinavir plasma

concentrations, potentially due to induction of the cytochrome P450

metabolic pathway.  For a copy of the Public Health Advisory see:

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/advisory/stjwort.htm



MedWatch



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: St. John's Wort

From: "Janina Srensen" <janinaherb@bigfoot.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:14:38 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Janina <janinaherb@bigfoot.com> :



For more info see http://www.thelancet.com/newlancet where in the

current issue is a lot of info about SJW, and a large discussion

section.



Janina



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Cayenne

From: Kevin Chisholm <kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:40:20 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by kchishol@fox.nstn.ca :



Dear Fred



edbaud@bbs.slv.org wrote:

> 

> Sent to the herblist by edbaud@bbs.slv.org :

> 

> and other hot peppers irritate any living tissue they come into contact

> with (as anyone knows who eats em), even getting a bit on your face will

> burn you.  However, they warm you up...good emergency treatment for

> hypothermia, really gets the juices going..



Does the pepper really "get the juices going", in terms of stimulating

circulation, or is the "heating effect" simply one of causing the nerve

system to "perceive heat" without an actual increase in temperature or

circulation? 



Kevin Chisholm 

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Cayenne

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 06:21:34 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Kevin Chisholm <kchishol@fox.nstn.ca> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>Does the pepper really "get the juices going", in terms of stimulating

>circulation, or is the "heating effect" simply one of causing the nerve

>system to "perceive heat" without an actual increase in temperature or

>circulation? 



Rub some cayenne (or one of the seed peppers, black, white, green, red...) on

your skin. Wait for 10 minutes. Check if this part of your skin is hotter than

the surrounding tissue. 



...it's not just nerves. Those oils -do- things to your circulation.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Cayenne

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 16:02 +0000 (GMT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk :



In-Reply-To: <LYR97981-37852-2000.02.13-00.00.59--psilver#cix.compulink.co.uk@-

franklin.oit.u>

Hi Henriette,



You said:-

> Rub some cayenne (or one of the seed peppers, black, white, green, 

> red...) on

> your skin. Wait for 10 minutes. Check if this part of your skin is 

> hotter than

> the surrounding tissue. 

> ...it's not just nerves. Those oils -do- things to your circulation.



Which is absolutely true.  The capsaicin causes the surface blood vessels 

to dilate and increase blood flow.  Since your skin is usually a degree or 

two cooler than your internal temperature, the extra blood flow will 

increase the skin temperature in that area.



It's precisely because of that effect that you should never, ever use it 

to treat hypothermia. Increasing blood flow to the surface will cool the 

blood even more and will make the hypothermia even worse because the core 

body temperature will drop still further as the cooled blood circulates.   

 Same reason as you never give someone alcohol to warm them up' as that 

too increases surface blood flow which cools the blood. You aren't adding 

to the total energy contained in the system, just moving it around a bit.



I'm pleased to hear about your book but sorry that it will be published in 

Finnish only.  I greatly respect your knowledge and would have loved to 

read it, however my Finnish is limited to useful tourist phrases such as 

"Puhutko Englantia?" and "Miss on bussi-pyskki?"  which doesn't help 

very much when trying to read about herbs <grin>  Whatever, I hope the 

book sells well.



Pat



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Cayenne

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:42:23 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> It's precisely because of that effect that you should never, ever use it 

> to treat hypothermia. 



Topically.



>Increasing blood flow to the surface will cool the 

> blood even more and will make the hypothermia even worse because the

core 

> body temperature will drop still further as the cooled blood circulates.

  



Topically.



>  Same reason as you never give someone alcohol to warm them up' as that 

> too increases surface blood flow which cools the blood. You aren't

adding 

> to the total energy contained in the system, just moving it around a bit.



I've heard this, and continue to find it amazingly dense. Alcoholic drinks

have been used to treat, very successfully, cases of 'hypothermia' for

many thousands of years. Science hasn't improved on this much by

interposing this kneejerk logic. Alcohol does a LOT more than simply move

the blood. It is just about straight SUGAR--a massive dose of carbohydrate.



If you are in the hospital cause you fell in a frozen lake, do what the

Romans do. If you're cold from the moor, better take Holmes up on his

offer of BRANDY.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: essential fatty acids

From: Tsadi@aol.com

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:54:46 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by tsadi@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/11/2000 3:40:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

jmccoll@BIORIGINAL.com writes:



<< I am interested in any and all testimonials/case studies, but am especially

 interested in receiving a number of testimonials from, for example,

 naturopathic doctors who widely use EFAs in their practise.   >>



along those lines, would anyone know why a person would get an upset stomach 

from a variety of different efa supplements?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: essential fatty acids

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:02:17 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



depending on the form of efa you are taking; such as in the form of an oil 

such as flaxseed oil, you may really have a gallbladder related problem that 

causes you to feel "an upset stomach."

if your gallbladder is 'sluggish', or the common bile duct is constricting 

unduly due to a load of fat entering the small bowel from your stomach, you 

could get feelings of bloating, gassiness, or quesiness.

make sense?

diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: essential fatty acids

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 20:58 +0000 (GMT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk :



In-Reply-To: <LYR97981-37680-2000.02.12-00.01.36--psilver#cix.compulink.co.uk@-

franklin.oit.u>

Hi,



Tsadi@aol.com said:-

>  would anyone know why a person would get an upset stomach 

> from a variety of different efa supplements?



And why would I experience the exact opposite of the usual effect of EFA's 

on PMT?  ie I am far worse if I take extra EFA's and suffer severe period 

pains.



PatS



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Herbs for Pancreas?

From: "Elinor" <elinor@big.net.au>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 08:31:45 +1000

--------

Could somebody please give me some advice on what herbs could be used for

pancreatic insufficiency, or as a pancreatic tonic.



Thanks



Elinor

Brisbane, Australia

--------

Attachment

winmail.dat



--------



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: nasal polyps

From: "JILL SIMMS-YINGLING" <jtsy10@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:42:29 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by jill simms-yingling <jtsy10@hotmail.com> :



Hi:



My husband has nasal polyps.   Was tested for allergies and they said he was 

allergic to everything.  One of the most severe they have ever seen.



He is trying the shots to see if they will shrink the polyps to avoid the 

next step, which is surgery.



Is there anything in the herbal medicine chest that will shrink those 

babies?  Or boost his immune system so it can absorb them?   Or whatever?



He has a lot of headaches, but the polyps don't cause him much trouble 

unless he gets a cold.  Then he cannot breath through his nose at all.



Jill



Thanks.



______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: nasal polyps

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 06:17:55 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"JILL SIMMS-YINGLING" <jtsy10@hotmail.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>My husband has nasal polyps.   Was tested for allergies and they said he was 

>allergic to everything.  One of the most severe they have ever seen.



Please check you house and / or his working place for mold. If somebody is

exposed to mold long enough he/she -will- get allergic responses to most

anything you can think of, and then some. Over here there's some mold-finding

dogs, but there's also some sort of electronic widget you can wave at suspect

places; no need to tear up walls and floors until you're sure.



Or perhaps: does he work with solvents? Gasoline, hairdresser's chemicals,

laboratory things, alcohol, ether, paints?



Be it mold or solvents, help his liver. Dandelion, milk thistle, berberis,

burdock...



And I can't breathe through my nose, either, when I have a cold. I didn't think

anybody could...



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re. St Johns Wort

From: "Elinor" <elinor@big.net.au>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 08:53:10 +1000

--------

Here in Australia, SJW grows wild and has been classified as a noxious weed,

and farmers don't like their cows eating the stuff, so they have come up

with some deal where a herb manufacturer (sorry, don't remember which one)

will buy all this excess as 'wild crafted', thus also keeping the farmers'

wives busy collecting it!



I saw this on a documentary program called "Landline", and since then, our

media has also been producing articles and segments on the "dangers of

interaction between SJW and other drugs", or even SJW on it's OWN.



It seems to be a very big problem down here that every time somebody comes

up with a new idea, be it proven fact even, that MAY take money away from

the pharmaceutical companies or doctors, or even steer people away from the

traditional way of thinking, the media has to step in and poison everybody

with propaganda.



They never seem to report on how many children are rushed to hospital from

simple ASPIRIN overdose each year, or how many people are suffering side

effects from other over the counter medications, or even commonly prescribed

ones, but are only too quick off the mark to report on the minority groups.



A very good friend of mine was prescribed anti-depressants and tranquilisers

and tried to kill herself TWICE!  I eventually convinced her to get off

these, and try SJW as an alternative without the severe side effects she was

having, and she has never been better.



Anyway, that is my 2 cents worth, and I am sick and tired of the bigger fish

trying to break down us smaller fish all the time with their money and

power, when it's all lies and corruption!.



Elinor

Brisbane, Queensland

Sunny one day, Beautiful the next.

--------

Attachment

winmail.dat



--------



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Re. St Johns Wort

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 08:18:17 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



Dear Elinor

Speak of the devil - from 12/2/00 On Health Daily Brief:



St. John's Wort Affects Medications

-----------------------------------

Two studies have found the popular herbal remedy St. John's

Wort commonly used to treat depression can interfere with

AIDS and heart transplant medications.

http://onhealth.com/ch1/MT.asp?t=/ch1/briefs/item$79703.asp&s=1



Judith.

Adelaide: More sunshine hours than Queensland.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Re. St Johns Wort

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:06:39 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Two studies have found the popular herbal remedy St. John's

> Wort commonly used to treat depression can interfere with

> AIDS and heart transplant medications.



One case is two groups of eight non-infected people testing an AIDS drug

blood level after two weeks of SJW. It was highly reduced, which means

that SJW helps the liver to eliminate blood toxins.



The other case was TWO heart transplant recipients who started to reject

their hearts when the SJW lowered their blood level of the antibiotic they

have to take forever.



SJW has also been found to clear Valium from the blood. So, what is being

'interfered' with is the treatment protocol, not the health of the

individual.



Not much of a condemnation of herbal therapy! 



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: numbness in arms

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:50:24 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



My husband has a problem of his arms always falling asleep while he is.

In the morning when he awakens, the numbness and pain is quite disagreeable; 

which includes his hands.       

We have tried extra B vitamins and bromelain.  We're thinking of splints.

The docs haven't been able to offer anything.  The numbness starts at the 

shoulders and travels down the arms.

Any suggestions?

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:03:25 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/11/2000 10:51:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

AWoehlke@aol.com writes:



<< The docs haven't been able to offer anything.  The numbness starts at the 

 shoulders and travels down the arms >>



Lets hear it for the doctors one more time.  Calcium, Magnesium from herbs or 

supplements and some Co Q-10  and they should go away in short order.  Also 

have a hair analysis done to checkk levels.  Sounds depleted to me.

peter



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:55:19 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu writes:

>My husband has a problem of his arms always falling asleep while he is.

>In the morning when he awakens, the numbness and pain is quite

>disagreeable; 

>which includes his hands.       



As case presentation, this is pretty slim. We know he's male, he's your

husband, and he has arms.



Might we be told his age? His general health? His lifestyle and occupation?

>

>We have tried extra B vitamins and bromelain.  We're thinking of splints.



We're shooting in the dark with you. First on the list HAS to be MAGNESIUM

and calcium for that matter. Hands down, those are deficiencies to be

suspected in men with nerve conduction problems. And we have to suspect

his diet. And we have to wonder about his sinuses.

>

>The docs haven't been able to offer anything.  The numbness starts at the 

>shoulders and travels down the arms.

>Any suggestions?

>Diane



CMA, by Alacer is one damn fine product. I'd recommend their SuperGram II

as well, taken morning AND before bed. 



Vitamin C LONG before Co-Q10 or having your hair sampled.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: numbness in arms

From: "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 02:19:27 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



Diane wrote:

My husband has a problem of his arms always falling asleep while he is.

In the morning when he awakens, the numbness and pain is quite disagreeable;

which includes his hands.

--------------------------



Diane, have you examined the way he sleeps?  How is your mattress?



This could be, partially or totally, a 'mechanical' problem. Before we

replaced our old, saggy mattress, I found myself sleeping in the most horrid

of positions. Few of us are aware of our night-time movements until they

become uncomfortable, and even then, we may be oblivious!



I would wake up occassionally on my stomach, with my arms underneath me.  I

do not normally lie on my stomach when I sleep, I much prefer my sides, and

my back. But with that horrible mattress, my body was trying to alleviate

bad pressures on my spine by rotating myself into EVERY position. My

suspicion is that while on my front, with my arms underneath, my spine was

getting the support it needed.



Just some thoughts.



- Tera.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:27:07 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



TeraGram wrote:



> Diane wrote:

> My husband has a problem of his arms always falling asleep while he is.

>

> Diane, have you examined the way he sleeps?

>

> This could be, partially or totally, a 'mechanical' problem.



Every time I fall asleep with my hands up over my head, my arms fall asleep.  It

never happens otherwise.  I'm assuming there's just pressure on nerves in that

position.



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: Momcat3397@aol.com

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 08:25:18 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by momcat3397@aol.com :



Diane,

Has your husband seen a Chiropractor?

There is a condition called Thoracic Outlet Syndrome which 

produces exactly the symptoms you described.

The space where the nerves that serve the arms and shoulders

connect to the spinal nerves is too small. Numbness results

from compression of the nerves.

While adjusting ones sleeping posotion can often help, 

the condition can usually be cleaed up by a series of

adjustments and appropriate exercises to correct

contributing muscle imbalances.

Meanwhile, apply tincture of  St. Johnswort to the area.

It is usually most beneficial if you can find the "root of

the problem" by checking along the spine to find where

the numbness starts - usually in the upper back between

the shoulder blades you will find an area of tension or

irritation ( the actual numbness may even extend that far

back). Apply the tincture to this area as well as any

on the arms shoulders or hands that are bothersome.

By careful observation, your husband will soon learn 

exactly where it does the most good.

Hope this helps,

Barbara Honors

Ethnobotanist

Momcat3397@aol.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:14:32 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/11/00 10:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

AWoehlke@aol.com writes:



<< My husband has a problem of his arms always falling asleep while he is.

 In the morning when he awakens, the numbness and pain is quite disagreeable; 

 which includes his hands.       

 We have tried extra B vitamins and bromelain.  We're thinking of splints.

 The docs haven't been able to offer anything.  The numbness starts at the 

 shoulders and travels down the arms.

 Any suggestions?

 Diane >>



Hi Diane -



Has the doctor ruled out a pinched nerve somewhere radiating down from the 

neck...if not have him do so first.



In health -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH, N.D.

Professional Consultations/Online Classes

Botanical Pharmacy, Burtonsville, Md.

Catalogue thru:  Herbgrow30@aol.com

Specializing in Substance Abuse/Addictions Counseling

                                                ***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 08:22:42 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



> My husband has a problem of his arms always falling asleep while he

is.

> In the morning when he awakens, the numbness and pain is quite

disagreeable;

> which includes his hands.

> We have tried extra B vitamins and bromelain.  We're thinking of

splints.

> The docs haven't been able to offer anything.  The numbness starts

at the

> shoulders and travels down the arms.

> Any suggestions?

> Diane

Dear Diane,

What does your husband do during the day that is perhaps causing this

reaction at night?  A computer operator?  A job that involves heavy

impact?  Repeated vibrations?

Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 21:29:54 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



to all who have kindly replied; i have neglected to put in some small details.

my husband is a lithographer (printing business), 20-30 lbs. overweight.  As 

far as diet is concerned - i grind all my own grains, use raw honey as any 

sweetener, use a lot of legumes and very little meats.  (and the ones we do 

consume, are organic)

only significant pmh is that of gout "cured" by herbs in the past.  

he had some nerve conduction tests in the past and was told a 'tennis elbow'. 

 it often takes a half hour for the arms and hands to 'wake up' in the 

morning which is very painful.  we've thought of carpal tunnel, but the 

numbness starts a bit too high to be that.  no past injuries to 

shoulders/arms/hands.

does that help?  thanks again, diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: Christa Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 23:09:36 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by cmaria@triton.net :



Hi Diane,

 For tennis elbow ther is a good remedy afriend told me about who

learned it in China. I have used it with unfailing success.

If the pain is in the right arm, feel slowly in the inner thigh from the

groin down for a sore spot. Press this sor spot well and see what

happens..It worked for me..

C-M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 23:12:03 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> to all who have kindly replied; i have neglected to put in some

> small details. my husband is a lithographer (printing business),



See? That little detail makes all the difference. Give this man some

ginseng, and tell him to lift less at a time at work.



> 20-30 lbs. overweight.  As  far as diet is concerned - i grind all

> my own grains, use raw honey as any  sweetener, use a lot of legumes

> and very little meats.  (and the ones we do  consume, are organic)

> only significant pmh is that of gout "cured" by herbs in the past.  

> he had some nerve conduction tests in the past and was told a

> 'tennis elbow'. 



Get a good Arnica cream, and rub it into his arms vigorously. Give him a

good shoulder massage nightly. 



>  it often takes a half hour for the arms and hands to 'wake up' in the 

> morning which is very painful.  we've thought of carpal tunnel, but the 

> numbness starts a bit too high to be that.  no past injuries to 

> shoulders/arms/hands.

> does that help?  thanks again, diane



Give him a good strong dose of Rhus Tox (200). That'll cost $10. And

probably eliminate the problem substantially.



I've given you three targeted therapies. One, constitutional, the second,

topical, and the third homeopathic. 



All three will work, but Rhus Tox is this pattern, and homeopathic

medicine is staggeringly effective when well indicated.



Then tell your doctors to TAKE A HIKE.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: numbness in arms

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:23:16 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Judith;

my husband is a stripper (lithographer) which involves all pre-press 

operations.

He takes photos, type, etc., and puts them all together to go to press.  It 

does not involve any real heavy lifting, nor repetitive duties (although it 

is the same thing every day) but not like sitting at a computer where it's 

that constant, repetitive motion.  He is the one who've I've also written of 

before asking about liver herbals since he has high exposure to some nasty 

chemicals - sometimes not so much touching them as inhaling them.

thanks, 

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Book recommendation

From: "Christine M.Ruessheim" <ruech@vetadm.unizh.ch>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:29:36 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by ruessheim christine <ruech@vetadm.unizh.ch> :



Dear listers,

I am currently evaluating some herbal books to add to my library

and found the herbal bookworm page. They list under those that

are NOT recommended by herbalists Daniel Mowrey's "The

Scientific Validation of Herbal Medicine". Can anyone enlighten

me why? I have currently acquired a book by this author (the

one about tonic herbs) and although I just have gone briefly

through it only I thought it would have some valuable information.

Is it just the former book that is not recommended or the author

as such? Why are Michael Murray's books on the "stinker" list?

Sorry, if I just sound "innocent" but since I am just beginning to

learn about herbs I'd rather like to get the "right" books. Thanks.



Christine Ruessheim



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Book recommendation

From: hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress)

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 13:09:17 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Christine M.Ruessheim" wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>are NOT recommended by herbalists Daniel Mowrey's "The

>Scientific Validation of Herbal Medicine". Can anyone enlighten

>me why? I have currently acquired a book by this author (the

>one about tonic herbs) 



I don't hae the "scientific validation" one. Mowrey's "Herbal Tonic Therapies"

is nice as far as it goes.



But think about it. When talking scientific validation of herbs you're 

- talking only the 15 top researched herbs

or 

- isolated constituents of the few herbs in addition to said 15 that have 

  gotten any research attention

and

- you throw out all the accumulated wisdom of the ages, which has not yet 

  been scientifically validated, and which perhaps never will be validated.



>Why are Michael Murray's books on the "stinker" list?



Because Murray is not a practitioner. Thus, his authorative writings, as a

herbalist, on the use of herbs for health, are suspect.

A couple of years ago I was asked to translate one of his books. Before saying

"yea" or "nay" I looked it over. The experience has traumatized my memory to

such a degree that I cannot remember the title... anyway, I declined, and

advised against translating it at all. I also asked the publisher why not

translate a -good- book while they're at it? Like any of Michael Moore's or

David Hoffman's. Nowadays I'd advise on translating Janice Schofield's "Wild

plants" book, too, that one's admirably adaptable to the Finnish climate.

Shrug. I'm not the translator, and it has taken the publisher far longer than

they first planned, but the Murray translation is due out this summer. 



On the bright side, my own book, due out in two months, will look oh so good in

comparison ;) That one's -good-. In Finnish only though.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Book recommendation

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 21:35:53 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



forgive me if i am naive, but i thought michael murray was a practitioner, 

and taught at bastyr college of naturopathic medicine.  

our area of our state seems to really push his books.....

again, forgive me if i am naive, but i kinda like his books because they 

don't have a lot of what seems to be heresay and anecdotal recommendations.  

he seems to have the dry statistical evidence on the things he writes.

you guys obviously have a lot more experience than i do, coming from an 

allopathic background.  i'd gladly like to be set straight....

diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: St. John's Wort/drug contraindications

From: dpotocki <dpotocki@erols.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:33:16 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by dpotocki@erols.com :



It is important for us all to be aware of any contraindications between

drugs and herbs, but I must say that it is interesting these studies are

so often followed by suggestions of controlling/banning certain herbs or

other natural products. Wouldn't it be easier to just tell aids patients

and others on the dangerous drugs to not use those herbs while on the

drugs?!!!   My mother was on coumadin for 13 years because of an

artificial heart valve. Had she used aspirin products it could have

thinned the blood to the point of causing fatal bleeding. No doctors

ever suggested that aspirin products be banned,  they just informed my

mother of the dangers involved! It worked quite well. Education is the

answer to most of the world's problems, not controls--be it of mind or

money!.



Just my 2 cents!



Donna



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: trigonella-also called hilbah

From: "Dovid Moshe Siegel" <Lvysnote@netvision.net.il>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:31:28 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by dovid moshe siegel <lvysnote@netvision.net.il> :



I am looking for any and all information about this herb.  This happens to

be a very popular herb in the mideast.  Full of vitamins hilbah is alson

used to clean the intestinal tract as well as the blood.  This all I know.

Is this a cold bitter?  And is the information that I said correct?

Thanks in advance for any information.

Have a TOTAL QUALITY day!



DOVID MOSHE SIEGEL

Lvysnote@netvision.net.il



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: trigonella-also called hilbah

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:16:57 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> I am looking for any and all information about this herb.  This happens

to

> be a very popular herb in the mideast.  Full of vitamins hilbah is alson

> used to clean the intestinal tract as well as the blood.  This all I

know.

> Is this a cold bitter?  And is the information that I said correct?

> Thanks in advance for any information.

> Have a TOTAL QUALITY day!



Fenugreek (Fenum Graecum, or Greek hay) is indeed a marvelous herb with

many strange properties.



NO, it is not a cold bitter---neither cold nor particularly bitter. It is

rather a heating spice.



I have mentioned before that a dose of F tea can prevent altitude

sickness. It is probably of great use in preventing and treating airplane

earaches, and in childhood earaches. Come to think of it, another therapy

for Allan's South Dakota Earache Syndrome....



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Hair Loss

From: "Dan & Cindy Lee" <akalo@discoverynet.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:10:43 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Cindy Lee <akalo@discoverynet.com> :



Hi everyone,



I know this is probably so commonly asked you are all tiring of reading this

question, but I have sincerely made an effort to search through the FAQ to

find subject matter on hair loss and any herbs or herbal home made shampoos

that help with thinning hair. I can't seem to find the thread leading to

hair loss.



so I approach the list.



a bit about me:



I am 41 female

have gone through surgical menopause for about 4 years now. ( hopefully on

the downhill side of that now )

have been on Premarin for 3 years, and asked to be placed on plant based

estrogen and now on Estratabs now  for a  year.

Hair began thinning 5 years ago. ( I suspect I was beginning menopausal

symptoms before surgery )

Hair is thin on top around the parting area, no matter which way I part my

hair I can see scalp.



when I was younger my hair was always very thick.

any ideas from you will be extremely helpful.



thanks for any help and all of you time.



Cindy Lee



When one door of happiness closes, another opens;

but often we look so long at the closed door that

we do not see the one which has opened for us



-- Helen Keller



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Hair Loss

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:58:05 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> I am 41 female

> have gone through surgical menopause for about 4 years now. ( hopefully

on

> the downhill side of that now )

> have been on Premarin for 3 years, and asked to be placed on plant based

> estrogen and now on Estratabs now  for a  year.

> Hair began thinning 5 years ago. ( I suspect I was beginning menopausal

> symptoms before surgery )

> Hair is thin on top around the parting area, no matter which way I part

my

> hair I can see scalp.



Lack of protein is the first suspicion. L-Cysteine, vitamin C, and B

vitamins are also suspect. Zinc is suspect. 



And the Chinese view: no blood, no hair. 'The hair is the endings of the

blood.' Ergo, danggui, and especially ginseng and danggui formulas, are

classic to both repair the blood deficiency that was there before your

surgery, and the current state. 

He shou wu (He's Black Hair) is also classic for this complaint.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Hair Loss

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:30:10 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Paul,

would the deficiencies you noted (Zn, protein, etc.) be for those of us who 

seem to turn gray almost overnight?  I am in my mid-40's and undergoing some 

of those premenopausal sx. suffered with EXTREME hair loss, including some 

eyebrow/eyelash after the birth of my last child (who is now nearly 3).  But 

i attributed that to age, hormonal changes brought on by the pregnancy/birth, 

and age-related hormonal changes in and of itself.  There were also some 

EXTREME physical stressors during this time.  I did try the supplements, and 

mostly increased my protein intake by increasing my legume intake (I'm not a 

big meat eater).  Maybe I didn't continue it for a long enough time.  Does it 

take several months to really 'kick in'?  And what levels of Zinc?  I guess 

the thing that really impressed me was the almost overnight change to 

gray........

diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Hair Loss

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:36:36 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Paul,

> would the deficiencies you noted (Zn, protein, etc.) be for those of us

who 

> seem to turn gray almost overnight? 



Graying is not the same, but these are still good things to check. For

graying, use danggui and heshouwu and a Chinese herb called 'eclipta.'

There are standard formulas with these 'kidney/liver and blood' nourishing

properties.



> I am in my mid-40's and

> undergoing some  of those premenopausal sx. suffered with EXTREME

> hair loss, including some  eyebrow/eyelash after the birth of my

> last child (who is now nearly 3). 



Delivery is loss of blood and qi, by definition.



> But  i attributed that to age,

> hormonal changes brought on by the pregnancy/birth,  and age-related

> hormonal changes in and of itself.  



That is rather like labelling a cat 'CAT' to help it catch a rat.

'Hormonal changes' is one of those mouthfulls that means NOTHING

therapeutically, unless you have stock in Lilly.



>There were also some  EXTREME

> physical stressors during this time.  I did try the supplements, and

>  mostly increased my protein intake by increasing my legume intake

> (I'm not a  big meat eater).  



It would be wise to become one. At least eat eggs every other day for a

few months.



>Maybe I didn't continue it for a long

> enough time.  Does it  take several months to really 'kick in'?  And

> what levels of Zinc?  I guess  the thing that really impressed me

> was the almost overnight change to  gray........

> diane



Get some heshouwu (you can use the standard Shou Wu bottled elixir if you

like), and some nice smelly danggui (even capsules at a health food store,

but they should SMELL). And WAY up the protein.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Hair Loss

From: "Bill Winston" <b.winston@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:36:46 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Marie Winston <b.winston@worldnet.att.net> :



You wrote:

>And what levels of Zinc?  I guess

>the thing that really impressed me was the almost overnight change to

>gray........



Diane,



That usually indicates more of a copper deficiency.  Since copper also helps

to regulate the heart beat, it is important.  3mg. a day is recommended.



Copper is contained in green veggies, nuts and legumes.  Herbs high in

copper are Skullcap, Sage leaf, White Oak bark, Horsetail, Yucca root and

Gotu Kola.



Marie

marie.winston@worldnet.att.net



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Numbness in arms

From: "John J Macuga III" <john@cntr4Universalization.org>

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 23:06:38 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by john@cntr4universalization.org :



I would certainly have him checked for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome as the

previous post suggested. I suffered for years with the same condition upon

arising. It took surgery (Rib Resection) to cure the right side (blood and

nerves pinched between Clavicle Bone and First Rib when I raised my arms

above my head) and Chiropractic solved the left side. It is mostly due to

sleep positions where you put your arms up under your head (pillow) while

sleeping which cuts off the blood flow and the nerve impulses to the arms.

During this time the blood vessels contract and when you wakeup and put your

arms down, the blood now pulses through the contracted arteries and can

cause sever pain, as well as the tingling from the nerves.



The condition can also be caused from depression which causes the muscles to

tighten and pinch the nerves and blood vessels as well. Thank God for St.

Johns Wort, this is the most common form.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re(2): Cayenne

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:58:44 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Does the pepper really "get the juices going", in terms of stimulating

> circulation, or is the "heating effect" simply one of causing the nerve

> system to "perceive heat" without an actual increase in temperature or

> circulation? 



Name a kind of 'heat perception' that doesn't increase circulation. Even

looking at the COLOR red makes your heart beat faster.



The EO's in cayenne certainly increase circulation.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Shepherd's purse/cayenne

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 06:34:29 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Yes, cayenne can be irritating to the stomach.  I know from experience with

Habanero peppers in 1995.  I tried to be careful, still got slight burning

sensation at the anus, and stomach irritation that diminished my appetite, just

what I didn't want, being skinny.  You might try cautiously if you want to find

out on yourself.  Some people extol the health benefits of cayenne, but for me,

the adverse effects, digestive and respiratory, clearly outweigh the benefits.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: staphylococcus aureus

From: "Marek Navratil" <marcus@nextra.sk>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:39:11 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Marek Navratil <marcus@nextra.sk> :



Hello



Can anyone give me an advice?

Is there a way of getting rid of staphylococcus aureus using plants and not

antibiotics?



Thanks



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: staphylococcus aureus

From: "Graham White" <hendongreen@gn.apc.org>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 16:33:39 -0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by graham white <hendongreen@gn.apc.org> :



Yes, but it depends where it is and what it is doing.  Send some more

details if you want sensible advice.



Cheers



Graham White  B.Sc. (Herb. Med.), MNIMH.

Medical Herbalist

--------------------------------------------------------------------



hendongreen@gn.apc.org



>Sent to the herblist by Marek Navratil <marcus@nextra.sk> :



>Hello



>Can anyone give me an advice?

>Is there a way of getting rid of staphylococcus aureus using plants and not

>antibiotics?



>Thanks



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: staphylococcus aureus

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 21:39:22 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/13/2000 7:21:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

marcus@nextra.sk writes:



<< Is there a way of getting rid of staphylococcus aureus using plants and not

 antibiotics? >>



Yes,  Grapefruit Seed Extract internally and topically if the staph has 

manifested itself in an open lesion  otherwise just take it internally.  I 

prefer the liquid extract in this situation.  

peter



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Book recommendation & echinacea

From: "Christine M.Ruessheim" <ruech@vetadm.unizh.ch>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 14:48:51 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by ruessheim christine <ruech@vetadm.unizh.ch> :



At 01:09 PM 2/12/2000 +0000, you wrote:

>Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Thanks, Henriette, for your point of view!



>But think about it. When talking scientific validation of herbs you're

>- talking only the 15 top researched herbs

>or

>- isolated constituents of the few herbs in addition to said 15 that have

>   gotten any research attention

>and

>- you throw out all the accumulated wisdom of the ages, which has not yet

>   been scientifically validated, and which perhaps never will be validated.



I wholeheartedly agree with what you said above. But from the few

chapters I have read from "Herbal Tonic Therapies" so far I understand, 

that Mowrey actually just has similar thinking. With his notes about 

standardization eg. he says, that it has become a double-edged

sword as on one side it results in the maintenance of high standards of 

purity and excellence of research but on the other hand that it can also be 

misused to create extracts that do not reflect the true nature of the 

original plant materials.



BTW, these first chapters have revealed a new question: Mowrey classifies

Echinacea to be a tonic herb IF consumed in small doses over a longer 

period of time, but will act unidirectional only if consumed in large amounts.

Also the way of preparation seem to play a role as he thinks that Echinacea 

extracts work unidirectional only.



What are your points of view on this and what would you recommend

if wanting Echinacea to act as a tonic?



Thanks, Christine



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Book recommendation & echinacea

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:01:12 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> BTW, these first chapters have revealed a new question: Mowrey classifies

> Echinacea to be a tonic herb 



Broken record time, but this use of the word 'tonic' is PLENTY of reason

to toss his book into the refuse. Echinacea isn't a tonic, any more than

most plants have some bitter principle and some astringent principle.



Tonification is the use of bitter, astringent herbs to rectify the

relationship between the liver and the digestion. As a therapy, it can be

applied also to the lungs, and the bladder. Using this term to mean

'supplementation' is very bad herbalism.



If you throw out every book that uses this misnomer, you will have a fine

library indeed. I don't believe that great herbalists use this terminology.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Book recommendation & echinacea

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 06:29:26 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Daniel Mowrey's use of the word tonic in "Herbal Tonic Therapies" seems at

variance with the normal use of that word, normally no hint of bidirectionality.

I am very skeptical of Mowrey's notion of bidirectionality, especially after

finding that lapacho/pau d'arco produced a delayed asthmatic reaction.  I also

notice that Balch & Balch (Prescription for Nutritional Healing) recommend three

cups daily pau d'arco tea for asthma and a bunch of other things and don't think

that book dependable.  I don't know how pau d'arco would affect me currently,

but would rather stay clear.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Child's sudden deafness

From: Allan Foster <jointuse@gwtc.net>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:47:58 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by allan foster <jointuse@gwtc.net> :



To the Herb list:

	I have a friend who has just had her second child. Recenlt 

her first child developed a problem with her ears. She had pain in 

her ears one evening and woke up the next day with her ears "stopped 

up" and "deaf as a post"...her mom's description.

	Her mom notes "Her ears have been stopped up for a couple of 

weeks now  She is deaf but isn't in pain.  She is drinking lots of 

water, has cut down on

the milk, is taking Echinacea with goldenseal and extra vit. C, is 

pending time in the bathroom with the shower going, getting her neck 

massaged and chiropractically adjusted."

	I suggested she stop the echinacea and golden seal while I 

sought help from this list since they didn't seem to me to be 

appropriate for this situation.

	I asked my friend for some general characteristics which 

might point to an underlying reason for this malady she responded 

thusly:



She is 6.

She is fairly active, but lately has been very tired after school.

She is warm.  (Always has been)

No changes in coloration

She doesn't like fruit or juice much.

She eats quite a bit of carbs, but meat protein is her favorite.

She probably eats too much fat.  corn dogs are her favorite lunch at

school.

	Does anyone here have any ideas which might help this little 

girl. Many thanks.

-- 



Allan Foster

Hedog's Camp, Rosebud Reservation

<mailto:jointuse@gwtc.net>

"It is a stupid society that  runs an experiment to see what its 

breaking points are." 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Child's sudden deafness

From: Christa Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by cmaria@triton.net :



Has this child played and been exposed to a big noise, something that

sould affect the eardrum? Stuck something in there? Does she have a

temp?

C-M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Child's sudden deafness

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:21:01 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/13/2000 1:18:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

jointuse@gwtc.net writes:



<<  She had pain in 

 her ears one evening and woke up the next day with her ears "stopped 

 up" and "deaf as a post"...her mom's description. >>



The first question I have is "has her mom consulted with a doctor on this 

condition??"



While we are all quick to jump on the wagon and trash the allopathic 

community, this is one of "those" situations where one should at least get 

their diagnosis and then make a decision as to which way to go with a 

treatment plan.   There are only a couple of things I am aware of that can 

cause true deafness in children, loud sharp noises,  infections, and disease. 

 Generally speaking an infection will not get both ears at the same time and 

neither will noises but there are some "diseases" that will. 



Though there is a lot of the picture missing, like what constituetes "stopped 

up" in the mom's mind, (only one of 20 questions) it sounds to me like this 

is an infection of the inner ear and possibly the middle ear where there is 

something interfering with the "mechanical" workings of the hammer and anvil 

as well as something that is probably infecting the fluid that fills the 

cochlea canal which in turn is preventing the cochlea (little hair like 

follicles that stand up in the canal ) from picking up the vibrations being 

sent in from the middle ear and converting them to electrical impulses that 

are then given to the auditory nerve and read as sounds by the brain. - -  or 

- it could be something as simple as totally plugged up outer ear canals all 

caked up with wax - hard or soft - that is preventing any sound from getting 

through the muck.  A trip to a health care professional with an otoscope 

should be the first step - and should have happened already.  if it is not an 

outer ear problem, then a diagnosis of middle/inner ear problem would help to 

define a course of action.  I have a lot of suggestions but none that I will 

make without a little more info. maybe a lot more.

peter 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Child's sudden deafness

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:15:44 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



This is partially off subject - I just want to share my experiences with

"sudden" deafness and let others decide how they want to deal with ear

infections.



I had an horrible earache once when I was pregnant. A friend came over and

put some herbal drops into my ear so I could get some sleep. The pain went

away and I assumed that the infection was gone as well. A few days later I

had my next prenatal visit with my Dr. and mentioned the earache. He

rechecked my ears and asked "Your ear doesn't hurt?" When I said it didn't

he said that he didn't know what it was that my friend put in it but it was

the nastiest infection he'd ever seen. He was surprised I had no pain. I

still don't know what the drops were that he made up.



My last ear infection, I lost hearing for months. It eventually returned on

its own as the inner ear drained. I met a chiropractor who said there is a

special tool they use to drain fluid from ears.



I used to be an interpreter for the deaf in an elementary school setting.

Illness can take hearing without warning. One of the little girls that I

used to work with had been born hard of hearing. When she was about 2 or 3

she caught a cold that developed into an ear infection. Because she was

already being tracked, her next hearing test showed that she had lost

further hearing and was almost completely deaf. Another child, born to deaf

parents was assumed to have inherited his hearing problem. When he was about

10, circumstances had him taken from his family and placed in foster care.

For the first time, he had a thorough exam that showed he hadn't been born

hard of hearing - it was caused from the scar tissue from numerous

infections, also because his parents were deaf, it wasn't important to them

for him to either wear or have batteries in his hearing aid. This caused his

hearing to deteriorate. Lastly, a friend had been born deaf, her parents

enrolled her in the HEAR foundation. They believed that if you bombarded a

deaf baby with sound, the brain would compensate (I don't know if I agree

with it or not). She could hear as a child but she said she took off her

hearing aids when she was away from her parents and they didn't notice. She

claimed that her brain forgot how to hear again and that's why she was deaf.



So, I guess I'm just trying to say that hearing can depend on many factors,

it's not just a simple solution. I agree that the parent should try to find

out exactly what's behind the sudden hearing loss before they try to fix it.



Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Child's sudden deafness

From: Allan Foster <jointuse@gwtc.net>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:07:17 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by allan foster <jointuse@gwtc.net> :



To all on the list who offered assistance:



	Sorry to be so late in thanking you. Just to let you know, 

the mother used sudafed  and blankets with her daughter and the next 

morning hearing in one ear returned fully and the hearing in the 

other was noticeably improved.

	She did take the child to a Doc who did not recommend 

antibiotics , but did want to install artificial tubes claiming her 

eustacian tubes were collapsed. Mom decided that with the improved 

hearing that she would forgo this procedure.

	Thanks for your quick and detailed response, it was a tremendous help.

-- 



Allan Foster

Hedog's Camp, Rosebud Reservation

<mailto:jointuse@gwtc.net>

"It is a stupid society that  runs an experiment to see what its 

breaking points are." 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Child's sudden deafness

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:07 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Sorry to be so late in thanking you. Just to let you know, 

> the mother used sudafed  and blankets with her daughter and the next 

> morning hearing in one ear returned fully and the hearing in the 

> other was noticeably improved.



Follow up on this by keeping this child from excessive dampness and cold

for several months, using ear muffs or cotton if needed. And feed garlic

on a regular basis, in food if the child will have it, in tablets if not. 



No fruit for this kid, no fruit juice! If sweets are to be given, use

sugar or honey. A cookie for such a child is better than an apple.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Child's sudden deafness

From: "Sharon Hodges-Rust" <ntlor@primenet.com>

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:9:48

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <ntlor@primenet.com> :



Hello Allan, I have recently joined the list so am answering this question 

a bit late. Additional things I would think of for ear infection. Neck and 

back adjustment, there is also a way to adjust the ear which will often 

unplug it.Is this the only ear infection this kido has had? if so she is 

not doing too bad, maybe just a run down state during or post flu extra 

stress at home or school. On the other hand if this is one of many look for 

an allergen like milk/ milk products in diet, constant runny nose, 

coughing.

   Now to the herbs I really like garlic for ear infections, probably the 

fastest way to use it is get some inexspensive oil caps and puncture the 

capsule with a pin-squirt this oil around the ear externally - in front of 

the pena down to the jaw line behind the ear on the mastoid process and 

under the ear on the neck.Apply heat to this via a hot water bottle or warm 

cloth in a plastic bag(the cloth in a bag will need to be refreshed often 

as it cools quickly) apply for 10-20 min several x a day. A tea of mullien 

flowers (mildly decongestant) or calendula or elder flowers can provide 

support.

  An good basic,

accessible book for kids - "An Encyclopedia of Natural Healing for Children 

and Infants" By Mary Bove,ND, Keats publishing 1996.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: danggui formulas

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:02:01 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Sory I ask, but I'm only in the first step of learning: what are danggui

> formulas, and what is danggui? Thank you

> Sandra Oliveira Almeida

> xana.oliveira@clix.pt

> Seixal-Portugal



Angelica sinensis. And the 'and' was meant to be '&': Ginseng & Danggui

formulas.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: danggui formulas

From: "xana.oliveira" <xana.oliveira@clix.pt>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:51:18 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by xana.oliveira <xana.oliveira@clix.pt> :



Sory I ask, but I'm only in the first step of learning: what are danggui

formulas, and what is danggui? Thank you

Sandra Oliveira Almeida

xana.oliveira@clix.pt

Seixal-Portugal



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Fenugreek correction

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:36:23 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



I wrote:



"NO, it is not a cold bitter---neither cold nor particularly bitter. It is

rather a heating spice." 



...but then looked in Bensky for something else, and found he lists it as

bitter. I got caught up in the issue of 'bitters' versus the flavor

'bitter.'



Then again, Bensky uses the dreaded misnomer 'tonic' in his section

headings, something that always causes me to scoff at his translation.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: hairloss

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:05:27 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :



 

>  when I was younger my hair was always very thick.

>  any ideas from you will be extremely helpful.

>  

>  thanks for any help and all of you time.

  

Cindy, in the January 2000 issue of the Townsend Letter, Dr. Morton Walker, 

DPM wrote an article on baldness and use of a product called ThymuSkin 

(nci). Since this product is not an herb, its an off-list topic but I'd be 

glad to fax 

you the article (5 pages) if you reply with your fax number directly to me at 

elfreem@aol.com. Please do not reply to the herb list.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh, Managing Editor

Midwest Shared Newsletter Service

Member, Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: topicals for irritants in top layer of skin

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 17:42:36 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



Dear list people: I have been dealing with irritants in my skin for a

long time, after an acquired irritant from another person ( long story).

After finding out from NIH that one of the culprits seemed to be a "

harmless beetle of some sort", I have been looking for "controls"  

Essential oil of Neem that I have been seeking, seems to be extremely

difficult to obtain. ( If any one has an address, phone number or website

for a source, God bless you for sending it to me)  The one small bottle I

obtained had a vile smell, ( characteristic?).  I used lather from neem

soap as a topical, and that seemed to give some relief, especially topped

with the now available again flowers of sulfur.   I recently opened up a

vial of valerian tincture and noted the vile odor, and wondered if (

maybe?).  Grieve's listing on botanical.com includes constituents of

valerian, including formic acid.   I decided to add it to my homemade

lotion mixtures along with black walnut tincture and tea tree oil ( and a

few other things, unfortunately), and it seems to loosen the little

particles that sting and itch occasionally. I am looking for suggestions,

comments, names of herbs, herbal tinctures, essential oils that may have

small amounts of helpful ingredients like pyrethrins, permethrin, etc. 

(My "allo" has given me prescription eurax, an old scabicide, that is now

listed in the regular PDR as an anti-itch, which is less helpful most of

the time than my "homebrew") Marcia <ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Nepeta Cataria

From: diane downs <rdowns@ix.netcom.com>

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 04:12:45 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by diane downs <rdowns@ix.netcom.com> :



I have a friend who had a funy reaction to catnip (Nepeta Cataria) this

is what she wrote,



Diane, I have an herbal question, that may be you can

help me with,

You see, I planted this year for the first time in my

life Nepeta Cataria,

and I have four beautiful plants.

Last week I was having insomnia, and I decided to

prepare a tea with two or

three fresh leaves...in order to sleep better...

Well I don't know if it was the tea,( I assume it was)

but I felt awful,

kind of deasy, and I was wondering if this herb might

have any unpleasent

effect combined with my heart medication, this

medication lowers the heart

beating rate, (as well as my blood pressure, which

usually is very low)and

what I felt that night I took the herbal tea was

something similar to "If I

fell asleep, I might go to the other world", the

effect took a long time to

go, and I didn't try the tea any more, and I didn't

feel this effect back

again... But I am intrigued about this...

Any suggestions.......



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nepeta Cataria

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:28:02 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Last week I was having insomnia, and I decided to

> prepare a tea with two or

> three fresh leaves...in order to sleep better...



Catnip, like nettles (its relative), is a stimulant mint. 



> Well I don't know if it was the tea,( I assume it was)

> but I felt awful,



Diaphoretics like catnip are not appropriate for deficiency cases.



> kind of deasy, and I was wondering if this herb might

> have any unpleasent

> effect combined with my heart medication, this

> medication lowers the heart

> beating rate, 



This person has heart yin deficiency, being masked by this drug, which is

why she has difficulty sleeping, and why catnip isn't the right sort of

sedative. She should try something more on the line of chamomile.



>(as well as my blood pressure, which

> usually is very low)and



Low blood pressure with high heartrate. That is qi depletion with yin

deficiency.



Ask your friend if she gets enough protein, and eats enough dark leafy

greens. 



She may have a copper deficiency (zinc, iron, magnesium...), as well.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nepeta Cataria

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:57:06 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone) wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>> Last week I was having insomnia, and I decided to

>> prepare a tea with two or

>> three fresh leaves...in order to sleep better...

>

>Catnip, like nettles (its relative), is a stimulant mint. 



Catnip is calming, in western herbal medicine. Of course, it smells so bad that

I usually use other herbs.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nepeta Cataria

From: joel <mango@gelrevision.nl>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:12:23 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by joel <mango@gelrevision.nl> :



> Catnip is calming, in western herbal medicine. Of course, it smells so bad that

> I usually use other herbs.



Catnip smells bad, but it tastes good! :) (IMHO that is).



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: trigonella

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:52:46 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Trigonella foenum-graecum = fenugreek  (I recognized genus name)



Known as methi in India.  I never heard of hilbah (Arabic name?).



Part used is the seeds: somewhat bitter but palatable.  Fenugreek leaves can be

eaten too, and fenugreek seeds are sometimes used for sprouting.  My usual way

of preparing fenugreek seeds is to cook with grains (such as brown rice) and

beans.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: trigonella

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:03:39 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



>, and fenugreek seeds are sometimes used for sprouting.  



Fenugreek sprouts have a beautiful curry-ish taste. Yum!



Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: big bruise

From: "Mike & Linda Shipley" <n5wuh@ionet.net>

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 06:36:14 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by n5wuh@ionet.net :



Karen,

I don't quite follow except maybe the plant is not ALL of one certain thing?

Linda S.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: big bruise

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:10:32 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Mike & Linda Shipley wrote:



> Karen,

> I don't quite follow except maybe the plant is not ALL of one certain thing?

> Linda S.



I'd like to request, for those of us who have short-term memory problems and/or

are older, that you reference the original subject or email.  With a post like

this, there is no way to tell what plant you're talking about.



Thanks,

May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: TanKwe ???

From: Cha123chi@aol.com

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:14:45 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by cha123chi@aol.com :



Don't know why I didn't think to ask you wonderful folks about this stuff 

sooner.  Duh!



As my Chinese lady friend was packing to move -- meaning, she's not available 

to answer my questions -- , she gave me a bottle marked ...



TanKwe

Herbal Concentrate

200 CC

0.76 fl. ozs

Chung Lien Drug Works

[... and a lot of Chinese (I assume) writing.]

[... and a repeating background graphic of a stylized root?]



Anyone have any ideas as to:  What's in it?  What's it for?  What's the 

dosage?  Etc.?



Thanks.  Susi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: TanKwe ???

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 01:10:53 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> As my Chinese lady friend was packing to move -- meaning, she's not

> available  to answer my questions -- , she gave me a bottle marked ...

> 

> TanKwe

> Herbal Concentrate

> 200 CC

> 0.76 fl. ozs

> Chung Lien Drug Works

> [... and a lot of Chinese (I assume) writing.]

> [... and a repeating background graphic of a stylized root?]

> 

> Anyone have any ideas as to:  What's in it?  What's it for?  What's the 

> dosage?  Etc.?



Tankwe Jin is a standard otc liquid, containing cheapo Danggui and ass

gelatin (that's donkeys, folks). 



Pretty tasty (tons of sugar or honey, depending on brand), good for making

blood, used after periods.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: TanKwe ???

From: Cha123chi@aol.com

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 01:22:32 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by cha123chi@aol.com :



In a message dated 00-02-18 01:17:13 EST, you write:



>Tankwe Jin is a standard otc liquid, containing cheapo Danggui and ass

>gelatin (that's donkeys, folks). 

>

>Pretty tasty (tons of sugar or honey, depending on brand), good for making

>blood, used after periods.

>

>Paul



Thanks, Paul.  Well, then ... sounds like the best part of this "gift" is the 

VERY dark brown bottle that it comes in.  Better used for storing my 

tinctures, ya?



Susi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: TanKwe ???

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 00:37:38 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



The best part of the "gift " is the danggui.  There is a place for cheap

herb in  maintaining the health of women who menstruate.  If you have a

serious Blood deficiency, OTOH, see a practicioner and use higher quality

herb.



"Ass gelatin" sounds worse than "collagen from non-bovine sources". 

Countries use what they have.



And honey is used to reduce Kapha in ayurveda and makes many herbs more

effectively assimilated than unsweetened herbs.  



(Besides the bottletop is usually the weak link in using Tan Kwei Jin

bottles for your tinctures.)



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain." --Dolly Parton



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: TanKwe ???

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:01:23 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Thanks, Paul.  Well, then ... sounds like the best part of this

> "gift" is the  VERY dark brown bottle that it comes in.  Better used

> for storing my  tinctures, ya?

> 

> Susi



Not at all. I think it makes pretty good tea, and it's good for you, if

fattening. Some brands don't use donkey gelatin, I recall. It's just a

case of getting what (she) paid for...it's inexpensive, and the effects

are mild.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: TanKwe ???

From: Cha123chi@aol.com

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:20:16 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by cha123chi@aol.com :



In a message dated 00-02-19 01:36:25 EST, you write:



> I think it makes pretty good tea, and it's good for you, if

>fattening. Some brands don't use donkey gelatin, I recall. It's just a

>case of getting what (she) paid for...it's inexpensive, and the effects

>are mild.

>

>Paul



Pray, tell ... is there any reason why I, a 51-year-old post-menopausal, 

healthy gal with no ill afflictions ... who practices & teaches T'ai Chi & 

Reiki  ... would want or need to consume this stuff?



(still) Susi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: TanKwe ???

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 05:06:59 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Pray, tell ... is there any reason why I, a 51-year-old post-menopausal, 

> healthy gal with no ill afflictions ... who practices & teaches T'ai Chi

& 

> Reiki  ... would want or need to consume this stuff?

> 

> (still) Susi



Building the yin is central to taichi.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Herbs for pin worms

From: "Robin Dorey" <rdorey@mtdata.com>

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:17:08 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by robin dorey <rdorey@mtdata.com> :



Hi everyone,



I have a friend whose family has been diagnosed with pin worms.  This has

happened before and they took the medicine the doctor prescribed.  Now they

are back and they want to try an herbal approach.  Also they are wondering

how to get out of this cycle they seem to be in.  How are pin worms

transmitted??  Children range in age from infant(less than one year) to

around 10.  Mother is nursing so she is concerned about any toxic or

cautionary remedies.  Thanks for any help you can give.  Robin



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Herbs for pin worms

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 21:25:56 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:17:08 -0400 "Robin Dorey" <rdorey@mtdata.com>

writes:

>Sent to the herblist by robin dorey <rdorey@mtdata.com> :

 ...family  with pin worms.   

>how to get out of this cycle they seem to be in.  How are pin worms

>transmitted??  There was a case of some kind of worms reported in the

Reader's Digest years ago, in fecal matter that turned up in a sandbox

from one infant ... (handwashing may be crucial during the cure)

Mint is anthelminthic. Oil of oregano has many anti-infective properties.

 Neem leaf capsules might be helpful.  However, how to avoid flavoring

the milk in a nursing mother is another issue.  The oil of peppermint

could be buried in something like a vanilla pudding.  The oil of oregano

may be buried in some kind of a tomato- type mix.   Or maybe take

everything in capsules... or make a soapy mixture with oils of

peppermint, oregano and tea tree, and have everyone wash off the obvious

pinworms.

You'll probably get some better ideas to either read about or start with.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Caution, Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Herbs for pin worms

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 21:57:47 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



We had friends with a pin worm problem 20 years ago or so. They finally

broke the cycle by only taking showers for awhile. They figured they were

picking up eggs from the bathtub floor everytime they sat down. They tried

keeping it extra clean for awhile but when that didn't help, they took

showers only. Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:  Herbs for pin worms

From: HarperP@aol.com

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:27:52 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by harperp@aol.com :



The best cure for pinworms is hygiene.  With no other treatment, the worms 

will be gone within 2 weeks.  Without good hygiene, reinfection is almost 

guaranteed.



Pinworms have a two week life cycle, beginning with the ingestion of the eggs 

through the mouth, and ending with intense itching as the mature worms exit 

the anus to lay eggs--usually at the full and new moons.  Reinfection is 

common, and they are easily passed between family members because the sticky 

exudate that accompanies the eggs helps them stick to the fingers and under 

the nails, from whence they reach the mouth during eating and food handling.



FREQUENT hand washing is crucial to prevent reinfection.  Cut fingernails 

short, and use nail brushes and soap every time you wash.  Clean doorknobs, 

toilet handles, faucets, etc. Avoid finger foods, and wash scrupulously 

before touching *anything* that goes into your mouth. Wash all nightclothes, 

underwear and sheets in hot water, then wear underwear day and night to 

prevent further contamination of night wear and bedding.  



This should take care of the problem.



Patricia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Planetary Herbolgy

From: "Dovid Moshe Siegel" <Lvysnote@netvision.net.il>

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:08:10 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by dovid moshe siegel <lvysnote@netvision.net.il> :



Shalom to all...

I received this recipe from one of my friends taken from the book "Planetary

Herbology"  by Micheal Tierra.  Here it is:

Pau D'Arco

Echineashia

Astragalis

Suma

Siberian Ginsing

Reishi Mushroom

Schizandra Berries

Ligustrium

Shaparrel

Golden Seal

Garlic

First Question...

Is this really a good formula for strenthening my liver and getting rid of

the Candida?

Second Q...

Is this a cold bitter?

Third Q...

How is it administered (Tincture)?

Fourth Q...

When I take a formula such as this, what are the expected results?  In other

words, what results should I be looking for?

Fifth Q...

What are the popartions to this formula?

Sixth Q...

Which herbs are allowed to be missing and the formula still work properly?

Seventh Q...

Does anyone have any idea where I can get the Grapefruit, Lemon and

Tangerine seed extract

sent overseas?

Again thank you all for your time and cooperation.

Have a TOTAL QUALITY day!



DOVID MOSHE SIEGEL

Lvysnote@netvision.net.il



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Planetary Herbolgy

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:58:09 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/16/00 1:19:13 PM, Lvysnote@netvision.net.il writes:



<< When I take a formula such as this, what are the expected results?  In 

other



words, what results should I be looking for? >>



Dovid;

I have used a preparation (a tincture) called Deep Defense by Rainbow Light 

Co., put together by Christopher Hobbs that contains  Astragalus root in a 

1:4 strength, Ligustrum fruit in a 1:3 strength, Reishi fruiting body in a 

1:5, Shiitake mushrooms in a 1:5, Echinacea angustifolia in a 1:2, and North 

American Reishi mushroom in a 1:5 strength.  I used this for my husband for a 

horrendous viral infection that was going around his place of work.  He 

'suffered' only two days, significantly less than the two weeks of his peers. 

 The only thing that he didn't like was farting a  lot more due to the 

mushrooms.  Rainbow Light is out of SantaAna, California. (nci)

As far as liver support, I use a tincture from Herb Pharm in Williams, 

Oregon. It includes Dandelion root,leaf and flower, Oregon Grape Root, Milk 

thistle seed, Artichoke leaf, Beet leaf, and fennel seed.

For candida, I would recommend adding pau d' arco, garlic, and grapefruit 

seed extract.

I don't know if these companies have toll  free numbers, or web sites.  I 

could try to find out if you're interested.

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Planetary Herbolgy

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:24:47 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Dovid Moshe Siegel" <Lvysnote@netvision.net.il> wrote to

herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>I received this recipe from one of my friends taken from the book "Planetary

>Herbology"  by Micheal Tierra.  Here it is:

>Pau D'Arco

>Echineashia

>Astragalis

>Suma

>Siberian Ginsing

>Reishi Mushroom

>Schizandra Berries

>Ligustrium

>Shaparrel

>Golden Seal

>Garlic

 

>First Question...

>Is this really a good formula for strenthening my liver and getting rid of

>the Candida?



No. You want to see a professional herbalist for a full evaluation. You don't

want a slapdash formula which includes some adaptogens and some other sexy

herbs. If you tailor the herbs to your problem you'll also get a much cheaper

formula.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:   pin worms-nursing considerations

From: HarperP@aol.com

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:05:11 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by harperp@aol.com :



I just wanted to add that to prevent pinworm infestations in a nursing 

infant, it is important for Mom to wash her breasts with soap and water 

before nursing.  An unconscious nighttime scratch, followed by handling her 

nipple to place it in the baby's mouth is a possible cause.  Also, (as far as 

possible) clean everything that goes into the baby's mouth, especially items 

that are handled by infected family members, such as pacifiers, bottle 

nipples, favorite toys, diaper pail lid, crib rails, etc.  If any of the 

children suck their thumbs or fingers, implement an hourly hand/nail 

scrubbing routine, and explain why.



When my kids were little, we went through a couple of bouts with pinworms, 

with the same experience that after using medicines, reinfection occurred.  

Once I learned the hand to mouth connection, we stopped the problem forever 

with careful hygiene.  It's yucky to think about, but knowledge is power!



Patricia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: pinworms

From: "plantpeople" <plantpeople@triton.net>

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:02:50 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by plantpeople@triton.net :



> I have a friend whose family has been diagnosed with pin worms.  This has

> happened before and they took the medicine the doctor prescribed.  Now

they

> are back and they want to try an herbal approach.  Also they are wondering

> how to get out of this cycle they seem to be in.  How are pin worms

> transmitted??  Children range in age from infant(less than one year) to

> around 10.  Mother is nursing so she is concerned about any toxic or

> cautionary remedies.  Thanks for any help you can give.  Robin



Hmmm. school age children... pinworm heaven.

First cut the fingernails of all in household, and teach children to wash

hands thoroughly immediately after doing their bathroom business (adults

too).  Next hope you have a good vacuum cleaner and not much upholstered

furniture or you will be in a high cleaning mode for about 6 weeks.  Knew

one woman who black plastic bagged her furniure - that worked also.  The

eggs live in dust crevices in carpets and furniture and must be controlled .

Have also heard of folks using baking soda mixed with antiseptic eo's such

as thyme and tea  tree... sprinkle, let sit 15 minutes and vacuum.



I have had best success with eating mass quantities of raw garlic, cabbage

and carrots.  An old fashioned traditional remedy.  Better yet, put it in a

vinegar and salt dressing and by George, you've struck cole slaw!   Keep up

a good size cole slaw serving with Every Meal (for the entire pinworm life

cycle - yes it is a lot of slaw, but is food medicine so must be continual),

and you will create an internal environment inhospitiable to the pinworms

(then you don't have to be quite so neurotic about vacuuming and such).

Make sure the garlic is fresh every time you serve it.  In addition, give

the school age children a dose of chopped garlic mixed in honey just before

bedtime.  If infant is still nursing, she will get a dose from the mother

and should be enough to clear up in the baby also.



Might want to mention that while she's at it, she might as well read up on

alternative treatments for scabies and head lice - with school age children,

they too, will come her way :-))

JoyceW - mom of 4



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: pinworms

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:28:49 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



How about another on pinworms?  I used to work the emergency room at a 

children's hospital, and this is what I would recommend to families.  Most of 

what you have read about pinworms is true - the old adage: cleanliness is 

next to godliness, is quite true in this case!  

Eggs are capable of infesting anther host within about 6 hrs. of being laid.  

Once swallowed they release larvae, which become adults and travel to the 

rectum and lay eggs on the gluteal fold.  There is usually intense itching of 

the anus, and sleep disturbances that go along with it!  The pinworms come 

out at night while the child is asleep; and you can see them yourself (if you 

haven't already) Take a piece of tape and put it on a popsicle stick, or even 

the finger, and rub or press it firmly around the child's anus after a night 

of sleep  & while the child is still asleep. (wait until they have been 

asleep for at least a couple of hours) You can put the tape under a kid's 

microscope, or a 10x magnifying glass to inspect for eggs.  you can easily 

repeat this if you don't see it the first night, for 6-7 nights in a row.  

they can be easily missed on first exam.  You may even see them visually, 

just by looking with a flashlight.  This must be done as rapidly as possible, 

because they will go back into the anus in response to light.  So the 

flashlight should be the only light.  They appear as tiny white threadlike 

creatures, usually less than 1/4-1/2 inch in length.  Pinworms are highly 

contagious, so it will be necessary to treat the whole family! The worms can 

enter the vagina, and the urethra; producing infections and even bedwetting 

episodes.  The eggs are too small to be seen with the eye, and are designed 

to survive the most unfavorable conditions.  The can adhere to dust 

particles, door knobs, and sucking thumbs!

Treatment:

1 - high doses of garlic. this'll be great for breastfeeding mom because the 

garlic will also increase the strength and duration of suckling.  use one to 

four cloves a day depending on the size of the child.  You can also squirt 

those little gel caps in something to drink for the child.  Or disguise it in 

a sandwich.  Kinda hard, I know.

Do this for at least a week.

2- all clothing and bedding washed in hot water.  don't shake the bedding 

when taking if off, as you could shake out eggs.  

3 - wash hands thoroughly before all meals, meal preparation, diaper changes, 

after toilet use.  use and discard a paper towel to turn on/off the faucets.  

4 - toilet seats should be cleaned frequently with salt water (3 tb. per qt. 

wtr.)

5 - dust can carry eggs, so dust cloths should be dampened with  diluted 

household ammonia.

6- fingernails clean and short, no nail biting

7 - hot epsom salt sitz bath may decrease the itching add 1 1/2 cups epsom 

salts to one gallon of hot water and have the child sit in it for 20 minutes. 

 You can use an old plastic wash basin, cleaned out thoroughly before and 

after.  

8 - underwear should be changed frequently and laundered promptly in hot 

water.

9 - you might be able to prevent re-infestation by dressing the child in a 

one-piece jumpsuit or sleeper so that they can't you-know-what.

10 - use separate washcloths for the anus then the rest of the body, and 

separate cloths per child.

11 - eat a high complex fiber diet, including basmati rice

12 - pumpkin seed are supposed to be good to help expel worms.  They can be 

eaten raw or slightly roasted.

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: pinworms

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 06:50:26 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>Eggs are capable of infesting anther host within about 6 hrs. of being laid.



Does that mean the eggs become nonviable after about 6 hours outside the host if

they have not been taken up by another host?  How long would eggs remain viable

on a doorknob or faucet?



Does garlic need to be raw to be effective against pinworms?  I don't really

like cooked garlic either, don't know how much it would irritate me, but raw

garlic is quite irritating to me.  I am not really certain if a half-clove, cut

and mixed with other food items to hide the pungency, irritates my airways, like

the pea that the real princess felt through 20 mattresses.  I still have some

raw garlic to test cautiously after several days moratorium.  Are there any

other herbs that pinworms can't stand that can be used instead of garlic?



A large amount of carrot-cabbage coleslaw can be irritating roughage to some

stomachs.  Maybe it can be grated with a food processor, rotating blade or

grating disk, and combined with some fruit for acidity.  Does the garlic flavor

come through, or is it rather hidden in the mix?



Thomas Mueller



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: pinworms

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:36:26 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



tmueller@bluegrass.net wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>>Eggs are capable of infesting anther host within about 6 hrs. of being laid.

>

>Does that mean the eggs become nonviable after about 6 hours outside the host if

>they have not been taken up by another host?



No. There are pinworm houses, unoccupied for months or years, and then some new

unsuspecting victim moves in... those have to be burned down to get rid of the

massive pinworm infestation.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Estrogen

From: "Barbara McEown" <dsbarb@voyager.net>

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:17:00 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Barbara  McEown <dsbarb@voyager.net> :



This is my first attempt at a mail list so please be patient if this has

been covered before.  Is there a natural substitute for Premarin?  Since

my hyst the Premarin has not controled the hot flashes.  Also my nerves

have been terrible since hyst.  Doctor suggested Xanax.  Is there

anything that will get me back to normal?

Second.  I read an article that said St. Johns Wort could be used to

treat hyperactive children.  But it gave no dosages.  My grandson is on

medication and the pamphlet that came with the medicine said it could

cause depression.  My daughter is afraid she will treat one problem but

create another one with this medicine.  Any help will be appreciated.

Barb



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Estrogen

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:17:23 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:17:00 -0500 "Barbara McEown" <dsbarb@voyager.net>

writes:

>Sent to the herblist by Barbara  McEown <dsbarb@voyager.net> :

 Is there a natural substitute for Premarin?  

There is a soy-based prescription which my friend takes ( name?

esterase?), also there are people who take dongquai as estrogenic and

fo-ti-tieng as a progesterone substitute.   Your regular MD can give you

the soy-based prescription.

...nerves...valerian is calming, and you might prefer it as a night-time

thing, supportive to sleep.



>Second.  I read an article that said St. Johns Wort could be used to

treat hyperactive children.  ...My grandson is on medication

..be careful with mixtures.  Reading and learning and getting guidance

are very important.  There is information printed somewhere that coffee

wires adults and calms down hyperactive children,--again don't mix this

with medication either. In a good " yuppy" supermarket or health food

store there are reference books( sometimes to get you to buy a copy),

where you can look up difficulties and see what some of the writers have

to say. That could be helpful in your discussions with your MD's some of

whom are beginning to look at alternative medicine. ( or look into

finding someone with a naturopathic background) Good Luck, good health

and good caution, Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Estrogen

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:29:29 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/17/00 5:21:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

dsbarb@voyager.net writes:



<<  Is there a natural substitute for Premarin?  >>



We use a combination of two things:  Remifemin made by Enzymatic Therapy 

(nci) which has 40 mg of Black Cohosh; or Estroven (nci) which had the 40 mg 

of Black Cohosh and 100 mg of Kava-Kava for stress and anxiety.  Some women 

don't need or care for the estroven, yet get very good results from the 

Remifemin.



Black Cohosh is an estrogenic herb which means it has estrogen-like 

properties.  By using it you will be teaching your body to replace the 

missing hormones.  Along with this we have found a daily dose of Evening 

Primrose Oil caps seems to give a bit of synergy.  My partner found this out 

during her CHNP (Certified Natural Health Practitioner) classes, so we've 

tried it and it works.



For active children we've never used St. Johns Wort.  I'd do more research on 

that if I were you.  We use Efalax-Focus made by Nature's Way (nci).  It's a 

wonderful combination of Fatty Acids, and Vitamin E.  Along with it we give a 

long list of nutritional concerns, and the dos and don'ts of what to eat.  

The main thing is to eliminate sugars and dyes (yellow and red) from the 

diet.  This includes many breakfast foods and sodas, and many children don't 

seem willing to do this, but you can see a difference in a few days.  We have 

children as small as 8 on it up to college students who've been diagnosed 

with ADD.  I hear a lot of what I've mentioned is now available online.  

Sometimes we make up a flower remedy and always use a complex of aromatherapy 

oils.  One separate formula for each subject so when they need recall if they 

smell that particular scent they recall what was studied.  We're looking into 

trying an experiment in classrooms.



Hope this can help you -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH, N.D.

Professional Consultations/Online Classes

Botanical Pharmacy, Burtonsville, Md.

Catalogue thru:  Herbgrow30@aol.com

Specializing in Substance Abuse/Addictions Counseling

                                                ***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:Lice

From: "Barbara McEown" <dsbarb@voyager.net>

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:22:30 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Barbara  McEown <dsbarb@voyager.net> :



My granddaughter caught lice from school.  I soaked her head in baby oil

at night [three in a row] and covered her hair with a terryclothed lined

shower cap.  I comed her hair each morning before washing out the oil

and by the 3rd morning the lice and nits were gone.  But my question is

since lice live on blood has any studies been done to work on the

problem from the inside out with an herb or medoicine that would make

the blood unsesirable for the lice.  Barb



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:Lice

From: "Dovid Moshe Siegel" <Lvysnote@netvision.net.il>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:40:50 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by dovid moshe siegel <lvysnote@netvision.net.il> :



Rosemary oil seems to be tried and true here.  I hope that helps.  

Have a TOTAL QUALITY day!



DOVID MOSHE SIEGEL

Lvysnote@netvision.net.il



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:Lice

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:40:19 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



> My granddaughter caught lice from school.  I soaked her head in baby

oil

> at night [three in a row] and covered her hair with a terryclothed

lined

> shower cap.  I comed her hair each morning before washing out the

oil

> and by the 3rd morning the lice and nits were gone.  But my question

is

> since lice live on blood has any studies been done to work on the

> problem from the inside out with an herb or medoicine that would

make

> the blood unsesirable for the lice.  Barb



Baby oil acts like an impenetrable skin and doesn't allow the skin to

breathe.  There was a school in Australia [somewhere] and the mothers

were tired of yet another infestation - this was on TV.  They got

together and found that straight hair conditioner and a fine toothcomb

[or lice comb] cleared the problem better than any other way.  The

procedure had to be repeated, and all bedding etc had to be washed, of

course.

Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lice

From: Christa Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:36:12 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by cmaria@triton.net :



With 4 children and lice seemingly beeing a yearly event at our school,

I made it a habit to use vinegar as a final rinse for the hair..it's a

good lice preventative.

C-M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:  Re:Lice

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:36:02 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



I know this sounds weird - but it really did work. We had 4 children and

occasional lice. I taught this trick to a friend as well. I noticed that for

some strange reason, that while combing out hair after being washed, the

hair automatically parted wherever there was a lice. You had to be careful

and pay attention but the last time my kids had lice, that's how I got rid

of them all. The initial hairwash seems to stun them and they aren't moving

around. They just lay there. The hair strands separates around each little

bugger and you just pluck them out. I also noticed that they seem to lay

eggs first in the same area of the head. If I kept an eye on those areas

(nape of neck and behind ears), I would see eggs before problems started.

Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lice

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:26:37 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:22:30 -0500 "Barbara McEown" <dsbarb@voyager.net>

writes:

>Sent to the herblist by Barbara  McEown <dsbarb@voyager.net> :

>

>My granddaughter caught lice ..Bt my question is since lice live on

blood has any studies been done to work on the problemthe inside out with

an herb or medoicine that would make>the blood unsesirable for the lice. 



Barb, that kind of thing would be a lifetime of herbal medication.  In

general, you might want to think about whether " it is broke" and whether

" you should fix it".  If she is suffering from poor resistance to

everything and catches every viral thing that is going around, maybe you

want to read about things like GSE and garlic, and that might be

preventive, along with a culinary form of oregano.  However, you might

want to doctor a castile soap or mild shampoo for use during the school

year with oil of oregano ( essential oil ) or tea tree oil, and encourage

your daughter or daughter-in-law to cook some suppers with oregano and

garlic.  You might want to skim reference books in your local healthfood

and "yuppy" supermarket.  Good luck, good health and good caution, Marcia

<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Ear fluid

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:55:58 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



I am starting to get very concerned about a problem I've had for some

time now.



This past fall, I was treated for a combination middle/external ear

infection (which puzzled my osteopath no end).  He gave me an antibiotic

which seemed to pretty much take care of the infection; however, the

fluid has never left, and has gotten to the point where I can't put the

telephone to that ear, because I can't hear well enough.  The glands are

also swollen and sore.  I am not shy about going to an allopath when I

feel it's necessary; however, in this case, my D.O.'s only suggestion

was to take pseudoephedrine hydrochloride, and to be very careful about

it, as he knows my blood pressure is elevated!  Does anyone have any

advice for me?



I tried mullein ear oil, and at one point added some goldenseal powder.

I also tried drinking an infusion daily of elder flowers, eyebright, and

mullein leaves.  I'm not sure what else to do.



Thanks in advance,

May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ear fluid

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:38:25 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



Have you visited a chiropractor? I had fluid in my ear once and a

chiropractor told me they have a treatment for it. Some device that fits on

their finger, they use it to open up the eustachion tube to allow the fluid

to drain. I didn't take him up on it but he said it sounded worse than it

actually was. I might be brave enough to give him a call the next time I get

fluid that doesn't go away. Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ear fluid

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:57:59 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> I am starting to get very concerned about a problem I've had for some

> time now.

> 

> This past fall, I was treated for a combination middle/external ear

> infection (which puzzled my osteopath no end).  



It must have, since the therapy was inappropriate.



>He gave me an antibiotic

> which seemed to pretty much take care of the infection; however, the

> fluid has never left, 



Antibiotics are pretty bad therapy for ear 'infections.' They are cold,

and damp. Since you apparently had a cold type infection, or a cold-damp

infection, it didn't clear the pathogenic factor, which is a KEY

consideration in treating illness.



> and has gotten to the point where I can't put the

> telephone to that ear, because I can't hear well enough.  The glands are

> also swollen and sore.  



A fair amount of pathogenic factor.



>I am not shy about going to an allopath when I

> feel it's necessary; however, in this case, my D.O.'s only suggestion

> was to take pseudoephedrine hydrochloride, and to be very careful about

> it, as he knows my blood pressure is elevated!  Does anyone have any

> advice for me?



That may be an effective therapy.



> I tried mullein ear oil, and at one point added some goldenseal powder.



Goldenseal is no better for clearing cold or damp than antibiotics.



> I also tried drinking an infusion daily of elder flowers, eyebright, and

> mullein leaves.  I'm not sure what else to do.

> 

> Thanks in advance,

> May



Garlic, garlic, garlic. Eat heavy amounts of garlic, and put garlic oil in

the ear, for a week. That should do it.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Prostate Cancer

From: "Dan & Cindy" <akalo@discoverynet.com>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:42:12 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Cindy Lee <akalo@discoverynet.com> :



Hi everyone,



there is a co worker who's husband had surgery this morning for prostate

cancer.   I was wondering if there are any herbs or vitamins that I can tell

them about that  might help in his healing process as well as helping him

fight this if they don't get it all.   they are supposed to also check his

lymph nodes to make sure it wasn't spread to there, I  hope not.  If there

are any things at all that anyone can pass on to me I would  greatly

appreciate it.  Anything that helped any survivors.



thanks so much



Cindy Lee



When one door of happiness closes, another opens;

but often we look so long at the closed door that

we do not see the one which has opened for us



-- Helen Keller



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Medical marijuana

From: John Leschinski <muscle@televar.com>

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:22:17 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by muscle@televar.com :



Hello fellow listers!



This is an issue that is increasing in public demand, awareness, and needs

addresing in accordance with the general changes of the times. I'm talking

about the incorporation of marijuana into the masses for medicinal and

beneficial health purposes.



I'm not trying to instigate a debate here, but am very curious to know what

the the people on this list think about the institution of marijuana as a

medicinal tool within society, and as a legal available source of health

advancing constituents in general. It seems, that in the year 2000, with

all sorts of drugs freely available to the public, and the damage some of

them cause, that marijuana is a substance that perhaps needs serious

reconsideration from our politicians and society in general. It's

acceptable to go out and get totally smashed on a Saturday night on

alcohol, but to partake of marijuana for healtful benefits, as well as

medicinal reasoning, one is societally deemed a criminal. Reefer Madness

was for the most part, a governmental ploy and it's time to put ridiculous

CRAP like that, to rest.



Many of the notions surrounding this extremely versatile herb are sheerly

MYTH. For validation of what I'm saying, refer to the two excellent texts

"Hemp for Health" by Chris Conrad, and "Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts"

by Lynn Zimmer, Ph.D. and John P. Morgan, Ph.D.



I think it will be interesting to see what the general consensus on this

list is relative to this issue. That is, as to whether we should continue

this insanity and lock people up for something that should be perfectly

acceptable and legal, or do we perpetuate the falsities surrounding this

extremely useful plant, as if it's something equivalent to the "devil's"

sanction.



John



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: User276055@aol.com

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:15:55 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by user276055@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/19/00 1:36:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

muscle@televar.com writes:



<< 

 This is an issue that is increasing in public demand, awareness, and needs

 addresing in accordance with the general changes of the times. I'm talking

 about the incorporation of marijuana into the masses for medicinal and

 beneficial health purposes.

 

 I'm not trying to instigate a debate here, but am very curious to know what

 the the people on this list think about the institution of marijuana as a

 medicinal tool within society, and as a legal available source of health

 advancing constituents in general. 



John,

I completely agree with what you are saying about medical marijuana. I 

recently heard a program on NPR about some researchers in the Boston area who 

are developing a dermal patch for chemotherapy and AIDS patients to alleviate 

nausea and to increase appetite. So surely the medical community knows the 

benefits, now we are in trouble! 

I too would like to hear other opinions on this subject. 

Regards,

Pat



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: "S. Carlton" <carlton@mint.net>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:31:40 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by carlton@mint.net :



At 09:15 AM 02/19/2000, you wrote:

>Sent to the herblist by user276055@aol.com :

>

>In a message responding to:  muscle@televar.com writes:

>John,

>I completely agree with what you are saying about medical marijuana.  snip

>  some researchers in the Boston area who

>are developing a dermal patch for chemotherapy and AIDS patients to alleviate

>nausea and to increase appetite. So surely the medical community knows the

>benefits, now we are in trouble!

>Regards,

>Pat



Well, Pat, John, et. al. ... I think we're in pretty good shape here for 

the transition.  Now that the Government (US) has been forced into a 

position of discrediting tobacco on health grounds it has consequently 

eliminated (or 'wishes to') one of the great revenue producers in its tax 

structure.  Once all of the legal issues and false accusations against 

Cannabis can be reviewed, I'm quite certain the Gov't will be most pleased 

to slip marijuana into tobacco's formerly-esteemed and very lucrative 

revenue producing role.



Cynically?

Scott Carlton

carlton@mint.net



Please feel free to visit us at our Web Sites:



Aliceann:  http://www.Geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408/ - New focus on 

LifeWorks! ... Ayurvedic Medicine!



Scott:  http://www.Geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7136/   "New Photos,"  a 

preliminary working list:  "The Spider Species of Maine."  The Curmudgeon 

Discussion board, NEW ... Family History ... the Maine Part.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:38:35 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/19/00 1:37:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

muscle@televar.com writes:



<< I think it will be interesting to see what the general consensus on this

 list is relative to this issue. That is, as to whether we should continue

 this insanity and lock people up for something that should be perfectly

 acceptable and legal, or do we perpetuate the falsities surrounding this

 extremely useful plant, as if it's something equivalent to the "devil's"

 sanction.

 

 John >>



Well John -

As I am battling an addiction to the substance from my son, I'll never 

condone it.  I've seen firsthand the dangers of this "entry drug" and it can 

smear lives to bits.  Young people today are so into "escape" that anything 

that allows them to do so will be reached for.  I don't know if you're aware 

of the statistics on it's use today, but up to 80% of high school students 

smoke (either sometime during the week or on weekends).  Treatment centers 

for adolescents here are full - all of the time. And no it's not acceptable 

to go out on a Saturday night drinking and get "smashed."  If you're caught 

driving as such you get jail time.



There are many herbs and flower remedies that can work as well as an illegal 

substance.  There is a whole different pattern of activity that surrounds pot 

it even has a name  - "drug-seeking behavior" in the book "Licit and Illicit 

Drugs" by Edward Breacher.  It's not responsible to put such a substance in 

the hands of our young population -ever- for any reason.



I could do a whole paper on the subject but it's too heartbreaking so I'll 

just say I work on the other end of the spectrum of substance abuse, I have 

to pick up the pieces of shattered lives. I'm sorry if this sounds angry, 

John, it's not meant toward you, but the subject.  So nope you won't see this 

herbalist raising her hand or saying "aye" to a vote.



In health -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH, N.D.

Professional Consultations/Online Classes

Botanical Pharmacy, Burtonsville, Md.

Catalogue thru:  Herbgrow30@aol.com

Specializing in Substance Abuse/Addictions Counseling

                                                ***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: "Richard & Cyndi Ask" <ask@gtii.com>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:59:40 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Richard & Cyndi Ask <ask@gtii.com> :



Up and thropugh the 1938 urses year book MJ was

recoomended for 40 different sydromes and diseases

including PMS



There is a lot of political history behind why it is illegal

and NONE of the factual information has to do 

with it being addictive or a gateway drug



I would have thought that the years of alchol proabition

would have taight us if not the world something

but alas........

People who do not learn from history are bound

to make the same mistakes again



Here in Michigan we are taking a very interesting

MJ medical positiion to the balott this fall.



Richard



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:56:12 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



John;

as a medical professional, and an herbal "baby" of sorts, I strongly disagree 

with your notion of "falsities" regarding the use of marijuana.  The 

correlation between marijuana and the escalation to other drugs is 

unavoidable.  The link is so strong and so indisputable, that you cannot deny 

it.  "But", you say, "I don't use stronger drugs", or "I've been using 

marijuana for a long time without deletrious effects."  This is a cloud of 

self-denial that you live in.  It has far more physiological and psycological 

effects than you can imagine.  I have seen innumerable cases of marijuana 

cases gone wrong in the ER and the ICU.  I have seen autopsies on drug users 

that would make your hair curl (to put it nicely). It is not an innocuous 

drug.  Like alcohol and tobacco, you have to examine the real reason why you 

feel that you

 need to alter your way of thinking/responding, or feeling.  And if marijuana 

is legalized, where will it stop from there?  How about coke or lsd, but only 

under "controlled supervision"?  You see where the thinking goes on from 

there?

    Yes, I have heard all the arguments before, that man has done this for 

many a time.  But have you ever read the life histories of some of these 

people - I am not talking about books steeped in romance, heresay and 

conjecture.  I am talking about nuts and bolts biographies.  Many of these 

people were delusional, paranoid, and suicidal.  And that brings me to my 

first point:  suicidal people in the emergency room, rotting livers, 

abscessed brains.  

    Do I smoke?  No.  you need only care for one person on a ventilator for 

life, and you would never touch another cigarette.  Do I do illegal drugs?  

No, you need only care for one person delusional and paranoid from a toke of 

something laced with who-knows-what; never able to recover his 'right' mind 

to not touch the stuff.  Do I drink?  Rarely.  you need only take care of 

your father once from the most horrific and frightening cancer I have ever 

seen to not constantly imbibe the stuff.  We have a society that is consumed 

with feeling good no matter the cost.  Frankly, it frightens the heck out of 

me.  It's time to take responsibility, John.  Be a grown-up.  There's more 

around you than defending your right to get high.

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:01:51 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Pat;

my husband's mother died from a lung cancer that progressed to her spine. 

Marijuana was offered and tried, but only complicated things.  As did other 

patients in the study.

My father passed away after a fight with oral cancer that spread throughout 

his head, neck and shoulder, and spine.  Marijuana only complicated usage of 

other pharmaceuticals that were far more necessary.  

I, personally, think that the verdict is long in coming and needs far more 

scrutiny.  What is the REAL reason why most people are pushing for its 

legalization?

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 05:56:25 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



I certainly agree that marijuana should be legalized or decriminalized,

completely dropped from the penal code.  I would like it if pot could be used in

a nonsmoking way, would be a lot safer than many pharmaceuticals, and safer than

alcoholic beverages.  Use of tobacco and alcoholic beverages each kill far more

people than use of pot, though I don't think pot smoke is good for the lungs.

Medical marijuana could help many people.  I find it totally crazy when federal

authorities intervene against states that permit medical use of pot, and crazier

when farmers are prohibited from planting industrial hemp, "rope, not dope",

which has practically no drug value.



Thomas Mueller



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: HerbsZen@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:58:30 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Will Eckhardt <Herbszen@aol.com> :



Concur-have seen it relieve terrible side effects of interferon used to treat 

Hep C. Perhaps the only way this patient would have been able to complete 

course of treatment.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:18:27 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:59:40 -0500 "Richard & Cyndi Ask" <ask@gtii.com>

writes:

>Sent to the herblist by Richard & Cyndi Ask <ask@gtii.com> :

>Here in Michigan we are taking a very interesting

>MJ medical positiion to the balott this fall.

This may pave the way for creating a "new" allopathic prescription

medication.  So,...if you and yours have strong feelings, the referendum

proposal signatures may be the way to go. Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Michael Acord <mpacord@concentric.net>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:39:26 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by mpacord@concentric.net :



    While it is nice to see that components of Cannabis are finally accepted

as  holding  promise as medications, you cannot ignore the fact that the

government, (which is richly endowed by the incredibly wealthy trans-national

pharmaceutical industry) has given the exclusive right to one company to

produce a phenomenally expensive extract of a naturally-occuring plant.  A

previous trial of this, which netted us Marinol, increased the cost of

equally-potent "doses" (crude vs extract) by  around ninety times, and gave the

world a drug  now classified in the same DEA "Schedule" as Valium and similar

substances.  It is, by the way, widely reported to produce DYSphoria rather

than EUphoria, but we all know that medicine CANNOT be allowed to make one feel

good.

    While there is unquestionably a risk to the use of smoked marijuana

(reported so far for head and neck cancers, but only questionably for lung

problems), the recent Barry McCaffrey-commissioned report, published by the

National Academy of Sciences last year, concluded that the risks of marijuana

were within the risks currently acceptable for some of our present "popular"

drugs.  The report ignored the use of either ingested or vaporized marijuana,

but there are no published scientific reports concerning these modes of

administrationand the NAS could make a case for ignoring them, as the charter

was to review the currently-available scientific information.

    Incidentally, this review of the "currently-available scientific

information" found no support for marijuana being a gateway drug, or

addictive.  This is not to say that some individuals are not going to become

dependent on it, but the majority of the animal kingdom both manages and

tolerates occasional intoxication quite well without feeling the need to

exclude a sizable portion of its population.  Perhap a focus on the reasons for

some to become dependent would be more fruitful than a focus on punishment.

   In any event,  the level of extraction we are talking about no longer has

any connection to herbs and herbal preparations.  The very point of the use of

Cannabis as an herbal "medicine" is to utilize the BALANCE of substances in the

herb, not tear it apart looking for the silver bullet.  While this may be a

worthwhile pursuit, the true test of a medication is whether or not a proposed

substance is safe and effective, and there seems to be no real argument for it

being AS "dangerous" as a lot of medications we already use.  There is much

documented scientific argument for its effectiveness.

    The request to be allowed to promote the  responsible use of Cannabis in

the treatment of a host of conditions, is not a call for the wholesale

legalization of  "drugs."  It IS a request to bring the argument back to the

twin levels of human reason and free, informed choice, and away from the

current economically-based system, including the War on (Some) Drugs.

    I must finally apologize for sermonizing, but the incredible stupidity and

hypocrisy of our government and its need to control sometimes frustrates me

beyond belief.

    Mike Acord, MD



Marcia V Grossbard wrote:



> Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :

>

> On Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:59:40 -0500 "Richard & Cyndi Ask" <ask@gtii.com>

> writes:

> >Sent to the herblist by Richard & Cyndi Ask <ask@gtii.com> :

> >Here in Michigan we are taking a very interesting

> >MJ medical positiion to the balott this fall.

> This may pave the way for creating a "new" allopathic prescription

> medication.  So,...if you and yours have strong feelings, the referendum

> proposal signatures may be the way to go. Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:01:29 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/20/00 10:28:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, ngbard@juno.com 

writes:



<< This may pave the way for creating a "new" allopathic prescription

 medication.  So,...if you and yours have strong feelings, the referendum

 proposal signatures may be the way to go. Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>

  >>



We already have it, called Marinol, in liquid form, available for extreme 

pain by prescription.



Warmly -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 04:54:03 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Marinol is not a whole plant product, it is an extracted constituent of

marijuana- a drug.  Its dosage cannot be as fine tuned as in other forms

of marijuana.  And it still gets people high, so I don't see that it is

any great improvement over the whole plant.



The issue of medical marijuana is not the same as unfettered access to

the plant.  



I too have lived through a family member's addiction (an end addiction,

not a gateway addiction.)  But I still find valid herbal uses for the

plant.  It has a spirit that can demand allegience, as Paul once put it,

but it can also be used sparingly and respectfully for good.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain." --Dolly Parton



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Medical marijuana

From: "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 14:30:37 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



Karen wrote:

Marinol is not a whole plant product, it is an extracted constituent of

marijuana- a drug.  Its dosage cannot be as fine tuned as in other forms

of marijuana.  And it still gets people high, so I don't see that it is

any great improvement over the whole plant.

-----------------------------------------



It's also typically given in tablet form, though liquid form may be

available if Mary is right. I have a very hard time understanding how

someone on chemo who is throwing up at the mere THOUGHT of putting something

in their stomach is supposed to keep a pill or this liquid down long enough

for it to have any benefit.



I've known two people who were prescribed the tablet form during their

courses of chemo and it did them no good at all. One merely suffered,

wanting only to be "legal".  She eventually died. The other said 'damn the

torpedos full speed ahead' and used the occassional bong hit of quality pot

to get himself over the humps. He survived.



While these anecdotes are merely that... anecdotes, it's interesting to note

that the woman had the overall better prognosis for long term survival.



There are many herbs that could be in our formularies which have just as

"bad", if not more so, affects/effects as marijuana.  Hops, tobacco and

mugwort come to mind.  Alcohol is by far the leading death-causer of all

drugs in the US, outranking ALL OTHER drugs combined!!  When one studies the

history of illegalization of cannabis it becomes blatantly clear that we

have been sold a bill of goods.  At one point in our history it was the #1

cash crop for the majority of farmers in the US. When it was made illegal,

farmers RIOTED because a major portion of their income was being denied to

them.  What did our government do?  Supplied them with tobacco seeds and

subsidies.



It confounds me and scares me. What could be next?  Land of the free (to do

only as the gov't tells you) home of the brave (as long as your not foolish

enough to think for yourself).



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Medical marijuana

From: "John J Macuga III" <john@cntr4universalization.org>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:45:23 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by john@cntr4universalization.org :



I'm confused, is Cannabis the same as Hemp. If not! then the following was

misinformation. If it is..... my apologies



When one studies the

history of illegalization of cannabis it becomes blatantly clear that we

have been sold a bill of goods.  At one point in our history it was the #1

cash crop for the majority of farmers in the US. When it was made illegal,

farmers RIOTED because a major portion of their income was being denied to

them.  What did our government do?  Supplied them with tobacco seeds and

subsidies.



-----Original Message-----

From: TeraGram [mailto:teragram@silcom.com]

Sent: February 20, 2000 5:31 PM

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Medical marijuana



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Medical marijuana

From: "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:40:31 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



John Macuga wrote:

I'm confused, is Cannabis the same as Hemp. If not! then the following was

misinformation. If it is..... my apologies

-------------------------------------------

At the time, there were no where near as many varieties cultivated here in

the states. What was grown was for paper, oil and fiber production, and was

only occassionally smoked.



Now a days, there are distinct differences, and the etymology of the words

has progressed to differentiate between the 'two major types'.  What is

grown now for fiber, oil & paper is very different than that grown for

smoking.  The marijuana that is grown for smoking has been carefully

cultivated and hybridized for resinous qualities.  Also know that even the

'best quality' smoking marijuana can be all but completely destroyed if the

males & hermaphroditic plants are not culled from the field.   In hemp

fields, no such culling occurs, and the resulting plants are of especially

poor thc content, and all but worthless for smoking.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:32:54 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"John J Macuga III" <john@cntr4universalization.org> wrote to

herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>I'm confused, is Cannabis the same as Hemp. If not! then the following was

>misinformation. If it is..... my apologies



Hemp is one of the common names of Cannabis.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:33:41 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>There are many herbs that could be in our formularies which have just as

>"bad", if not more so, affects/effects as marijuana.  Hops, tobacco and

>mugwort come to mind. 



Mugwort and hops aren't in the same league at all. 



And tobacco, well. Do without all the additives (including addictives) that

large tobacco companies put in and you're far better off.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Medical marijuana

From: "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 23:08:20 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



>> Mugwort and hops aren't in the same league at all.



Henriette, I respectfully disagree. Or maybe you missed what analogy I was

trying to make.



Hops and mugwort can both be smoked and lead to intoxication. That they are

not abused to the same degree that marijuana is puzzles me, but I do know

that the usage of both is up.  At my local herb store, hops is now kept

behind a locked cabinet, because word is out amongst the teen set: it gives

you a buzz, it's cheap, and it's legal.



One of the medical establishment's biggest 'complaints' about marijuana is

that it is *smoked*, that this could not possibly be healthy, and most

certainly (in their eyes) always leads to further damage. That being the

case, these other two herbs, mugwort & hops fit the same bad-boy label.  AND

they give you a buzz. A definite no-no as far as the medical establishment

is concerned.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 23:14:56 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/20/00 9:41:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, ngbard@juno.com 

writes:



<< Marinol, in liquid form, available for extreme pain by prescription.

  Is it a cannabis sativa product? 



I ADD:  We are told it is.



and was it available in the 60's and

 70's when I was writhing through fibroids and membranous dysmennorhea? 



I ADD:  That would be up to your doctor to prescribe.  I was in college then 

and don't take responsibility for your physician's choices.



 Were you aware of when the edrisol,- nice kind edrisol that let me go to

 work without impairments- was taken off the market, because this excedrin

 was enhanced with one quarter grain each of an upper and a downer, a

 mixed action frowned upon by the AMA?



I ADD:  Again I take no stand on AMA decisions, nor do I feel I should answer 

for them.



It was about that time when I

 started making strong oregano tea, that I read about from an herbal I

 obtained at an out of town library that was "gifted" to me ($5.00 per

 year for non-residents)  I also learned that parsley absorbs arsenic from

 the soil. ( Wish I could remember author and title, but the 60's are long

 gone.)  Is that what they mean when they say" Life can be interesting" or

 the Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times."   >>



I ADD:  Yes we do and with the constant arguing between allopathic medicine 

and alternative deliverers it's gonna get interesting.



One of the things we try to do is empower women who are disappointed, 

frustrated, or downright angry with their medical care to get online and 

research, go to libraries and research.  Nowadays nobody has to put up with 

inadequate care medical or otherwise.



Be your own advocate.  



In health -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Medical marijuana

From: "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:13:04 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by poutinen, jay <jpoutine@uwsp.edu> :



Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



Karen wrote:

Marinol is not a whole plant product, it is an extracted constituent of

marijuana- a drug.  Its dosage cannot be as fine tuned as in other forms

of marijuana.  And it still gets people high, so I don't see that it is

any great improvement over the whole plant.



It's also typically given in tablet form, though liquid form may be

available if Mary is right. 



------------------------

Marinol is supplied as softgels in 2-1/2 mg, 5 mg, and 10 mg.  Psychotropic

effects are very common among users, but I've likened the maximum dose of 10

mg as having about the same effect as one toke on a marijuana cigarette.  



It is indeed difficult for users with a lot of nausea to take this and any

other oral drugs.  It is recommended that Marinol be taken initially 1-3

hours before chemotherapy.  I have noticed that unpleasant psychotropic

effects were greatly enhanced when Marinol was taken at the same time as

other prescription drugs.  Marinol helps some people with nausea, and has no

helpful effect for others.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: John Leschinski <muscle@televar.com>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:20:28 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by muscle@televar.com :



Howdy folks!



I was the one who originally posted on this very touchy subject of medical

marijuana. I have to say, from the response I've seen on this so far, my

speculation was real close to what I thought it would be. That being, that

the majority of people on this list, being healers and compassionate

people, would feel similar to myself in that it's ridiculous the cannabis

plant is so allegorically viewed as this great threat to society.



I would surely like to THANK all of those who responded to this issue,

whether in favor of or against the use of the plant, for taking the time to

post. And I'd especially like to thank some particular people who posted as

well as make some comments.



"Richard <ask@gtii.com> wrote:



>There is a lot of political history behind why it is illegal

>and NONE of the factual information has to do

>with it being addictive or a gateway drug

>

>I would have thought that the years of alchol proabition

>would have taight us if not the world something

>but alas........

>People who do not learn from history are bound

>to make the same mistakes again



Absolutely Richard. You're absolutely right!



>Here in Michigan we are taking a very interesting

>MJ medical positiion to the balott this fall.



I live in Washington state, and though we recently passed a law legalizing

medical use of the plant, the federal law still doesn't want to accept the

state's position from a legal perspective. I understand in Michigan, one

will be allowed to grow their own, for personal consumption. I'm not sure

if that's under "medically prescribed" parameters, or just for each

individual to determine on their own. I don't suppose you'd care to

elaborate on that would you? I'm very interested in hearing more about

this. Feel free to contact me privately if you don't want to post about it

to the list. THANKS for your input!



Paul I., you wrote one of the best posts I've ever read on here by you.

I'll use up my 20K of post limit if I comment on all you said. Suffice it

to say, it was a GREAT post! You and I have disagreed on things in the

past, but your thoughts on this issue got my attention. I applaud you for

putting it so eloquently, logically, and matter of fact. One of your points

really sticks out in my mind. It's NOT the plant's fault that PEOPLE abuse

it. It's people that abuse the plant! Excellent job on what you said!



Thomas Mueller wrote:



>I find it totally crazy when federal

>authorities intervene against states that permit medical use of pot, and

>crazier

>when farmers are prohibited from planting industrial hemp, "rope, not dope",

>which has practically no drug value.



I couldn't agree with you MORE Thomas!! The value of HEMP is so greatly

ignored in the U.S. and the reason seems to be misinformation. It's a

fantastic versatile plant with many values for healing, general health, and

survival.



HerbsZen@aol.com wrote:



>Besides if you worry about your children getting the drug, they are now! If

>we legalize it , like alcohol, it is then a controled source and although

>some will get access it would not be from the dealer down the road. If

>controled it would not have a dose of say PCP in it that might put you in an

>ER, not the pot.



Kids get whatever than can to get "high." Whether it's legal or not,

they'll attain it. They can get high on PAINT, morning glory seeds, baby

rosewood and mushrooms that grow wild in the fields in certain parts of the

country. You make a great point about the contamination of the herb from

less than scrupulous dealers. Some of the things that are placed on illicit

marijuana are what are responsible for the emergency room trips. Paul I.

said, and I quote him, "No you haven't. There is no record of such things

anywhere in the medical literature." He was talking about reported deaths

directly linked to marijuana. This is true, there are none. Not a single

one.



Adrianne ... from Hideen@aol.com wrote:



>I just have to get my 2 cents in here! First of all there is a big difference

>between a user and an abuser. If you take away the plant from the abuser,

>their problems just don't go away, they still exist, like Paul said, it is

>not the plants fault. The plant is just used as an excuse, so one can deny

>the real problem.



Definitely!



>I have witnessed plenty of users, all of them

>respectable members of society, great jobs, lovely family's. Coming home from

>a hard days work and "lighting up" is no different to them than coming home

>and popping open a beer!



Same here. I agree fully!! These people pay their taxes, have close family

ties, but because of an outdated code of morality foisted on us by a set of

outdated laws, one can spend a lot of time looking at the world from behind

bars. Something isn't right there.



> Also hemp is a very useful product. One field of hemp would save acres of

>rainforest trees in the production of paper, it can produce 3 times the fiber

>than a field of cotton. I have seen first hand what the tobacco farmers in

>the state of KY are going through. Hemp fields could be their answer. Most of

>them already are reduced to growing it illegally just to be able to keep up

>the farm, due to a tremendous lack of good paying jobs in that state. If they

>get caught, well there goes the farm that has been in the family for

>generations.



The REASON that HEMP lost out as a fiber commodity many years ago, was

because of the cotton gin. But now that we have technology and the hardware

to better harvest cultivated hemp (check out Canada!), it would be more

economically as well as ecologically feasible to be approaching this plant

for sustenance and economic progression.



I have more to say, but I'll have to say that later in another post.



John



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Medical marijuana

From: "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:18:32 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



John wrote:

The REASON that HEMP lost out as a fiber commodity many years ago, was

because of the cotton gin.

---------------------------



Absolutely wrong.



The cotton gin was invented in 1793 by Eli Whitney. The government began to

outlaw hemp/marijuana in the late 1920's.  A difference of more than 120

years!



Hemp was important as a clothing fiber, but much less so than cotton, wool

or flax. The durability of hemp fibers lent itself towards more industrial

uses than textile.  At the time of government attack, the main products of

hemp were rope, oil and paper fiber.  And there lies the reason that DuPont

and Hearst went on the offensive.



DuPont and his chemical company developed a process to reduce lignin in

trees to a more manageable form for paper making, reducing the mechanical

process which had previously been employed.  Hearst owned enormously vast

tracts of old growth forest. The rest, as they say, is history.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:49:10 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



> I was the one who originally posted on this very touchy subject of

medical

> marijuana. I have to say, from the response I've seen on this so

far, my

> speculation was real close to what I thought it would be. That

being, that

> the majority of people on this list, being healers and compassionate

> people, would feel similar to myself in that it's ridiculous the

cannabis

> plant is so allegorically viewed as this great threat to society.

>



I thought someone else would mention that tests have shown that Uni

students use M. gradually develop partial memory loss and that the

drug [unlike tobacco] can never be removed [excreted] from the system.



Also someone from a medical retrieval team stated that if a person has

EVER taken M. that certain pain killing drugs can never be used.  Not

that one plans to be involved in a car accident or the like that would

require massive pain killers - but we are not able to prevent some

things that happen.



Yet, a sailor here who took M. for epilepsy and admitted it, was given

the choice - stop or be thrown out.  For his illness yes, for others -

I do the pros outweigh the cons?

Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 04:23:58 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



I would like to see if marijuana could be used in a nonsmoking way.  Maybe some

of the harmful effects would not occur.  The smoke can't really be good for the

lungs.



>

I thought someone else would mention that tests have shown that Uni

students use M. gradually develop partial memory loss and that the

drug [unlike tobacco] can never be removed [excreted] from the system.



Also someone from a medical retrieval team stated that if a person has

EVER taken M. that certain pain killing drugs can never be used.  Not

that one plans to be involved in a car accident or the like that would

require massive pain killers - but we are not able to prevent some

things that happen.

>

There are some pain-killing drugs that I would be quite delighted to never be

able to take!  I have to fear the effect on the digestive system and the

prospect of being put in a mental daze.  I believe marijuana is a good

painkiller, they might not need the other drugs.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:37:54 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



I was referring to a case of where a person has been in an accident -

seriously injured - then pain killers are limited - and you'd be

desperate for any pain relief whether your digestion was effected or

not.



>>.  Not

> that one plans to be involved in a car accident or the like that

would

> require massive pain killers - but we are not able to prevent some

> things that happen.

> >

> There are some pain-killing drugs that I would be quite delighted to

never be

> able to take!  I have to fear the effect on the digestive system and

the

> prospect of being put in a mental daze.  I believe marijuana is a

good

> painkiller, they might not need the other drugs.

>

You obviously have never been in great pain.  Had you ever been in so

much pain that you black out from it - then you may have a different

view.



Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: Alice Newton <anewton@earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:39:27 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by alice newton <anewton@earthlink.net> :



John Leschinski wrote:



> I think it will be interesting to see what the general consensus on this

> list is relative to this issue. That is, as to whether we should continue

> this insanity and lock people up for something that should be perfectly

> acceptable and legal, or do we perpetuate the falsities surrounding this

> extremely useful plant, as if it's something equivalent to the "devil's"

> sanction.

>

> John and others:  This is a very interesting discussion we have here.



Whenever I hear medical or law enforcement people begin to rant about mj as a

"gateway" drug, I'm reminded of the saying "To a hammer, everything's a nail."

In other words, because of the particular profession they're in, all they see

are the problems.  No one calls a cop or a doctor just because everythings

going just fine and they want to tell someone how happy they are.  They (md's

and cops) don't see the majority of people who use mj responsibly, hold down

good jobs, and are otherwise fine, upstanding citizens.  The other writer was

correct, it's just like popping a beer to relax after a hard day's work.  I

know many people, active in their communities, 40's, 50's, 60 years old, solid

citizens, etc. who use to help them cope with whatever crap life is throwing at

them.



Mood altering drugs are as old as man (and woman) -kind. My grandfather born in

1903 was a pretty forward-thinking fellow, and I remember him making some

pretty astute observations when I was a kid in the 60's.  He wondered what all

the fuss was about concerning mini-skirts, promiscuity, drug use, etc.  He

remembered shorts skirts, sex, and drug and alcohol use being not uncommon in

the 1920's, when it was legal!  Imagine that!  Even back in the good old days!



Everyone else has already made just about all the points I was going to make,

so I won't repeat them (Go, Paul!).  But I do have this:  The only "gateway"

associated with mj I've ever seen is the door to knowledge.  Many

horticulturists I know got their start by learning how to grow mj for their own

use.  They discovered a whole new world of plant physiology, plant nutrition,

soils management, organic pest control and fertilization, light requirements,

etc. because they wanted the best, cleanest, safest pot they could get.  They

wanted their herb without paraquat, DDT, and organized crime. They were so

facsinated with the process they went on to become professionals in landscape,

nursery, arborist, and other horticultural fields (no pun intended).  It's

rather ironic because now they have these very responsible, well-paying jobs,

and shun the substance that got them started.  Not because they don't want it,

but because felony drug convictions are very bad career moves.



Criminalized mj benefits only lawyers and organized crime.  It's about time we

in the USA got some perspective on the so-called drug war and put our tax

dollars to better use.



Thanks, Alice



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Medical marijuana

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:19:16 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Industrial hemp and marijuana are both Cannabis sativa.  Industrial hemp has

minimal active pharmacological components, meaning practically no value for

medical or recreational use.



John Heinerman, in Heinerman's Encyclopedia of Healing Herbs and Spices, notes

catnip as a smokable legal marijuana substitute.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: GHR15 Herbal Cocktail

From: "Dr. R. Canaday" <rcanaday@interport.net>

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 06:23:19 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by rcanaday@interport.net :



Hi...Has anyone heard of or tried GHR15?



Thanks for any and all info.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Typica tea

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 06:50:23 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Does anybody know what Typica is?  I saw a package (8 oz, 227 g) in an Oriental

grocery store, and it looked like dried schisandra berries.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:Garlic, wa pinworms

From: Christa Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:52:14 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by cmaria@triton.net :



Garlic in honey makes it palatable..C-M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: ODD-ADD-ADHD Children

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:57:37 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/17/00 5:21:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

dsbarb@voyager.net writes:



<< I read an article that said St. Johns Wort could be used to

 treat hyperactive children.  But it gave no dosages.  My grandson is on

 medication and the pamphlet that came with the medicine said it could

 cause depression.  My daughter is afraid she will treat one problem but

 create another one with this medicine.  Any help will be appreciated.

 Barb

  >>



Hi Barb -



I wanted to address this portion of your question separately.  Bear with me 

I'll try to do this step by step.



ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder) where a child has uncontrollable bouts 

of anger and temper tantrums is often treated by anti-depressants.  But 

because books are still being written about this phase of childhood behavior 

that may not be the final say on it's treatment.  Behavior modification is 

also used when the child is calm.  Now ODD frequently appears alongside of 

ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) or ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity 

Disorder) so that may be where you found that link of using an 

anti-depressant on ADHD children.  When taking a family history you almost 

always find some sort of alcoholism, or behavior problem somewhere with an 

ancestor or parent.  Formal pharmacy uses stimulants like Ritalin to treat 

hyperactive children, but at great cost to the child.  So the Efalex 

-Focus(nci) rich in Fatty Acids and diet control seem to work better with 

hyperactive children.  Learn the triggers that set them off and then you as a 

parent can adjust your behavior (in other words you learn to pick your 

battles).  Aromatherapy has helped here too.  Herbs to calm the child at 

night can include chamomile and scullcap teas, along with herbal baths to 

promote calmness.  Many of these children can't stand to be touched but the 

warm baths seem to calm them down.  It's a hard road we're seeing, mainly as 

a result of diet.  You really are what you eat, but looking into the problem, 

reading as much as you can get your hands on, can give you the best 

information for the child.



Hope this can help -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH, N.D.

Professional Consultations/Online Classes

Botanical Pharmacy, Burtonsville, Md.

Catalogue thru:  Herbgrow30@aol.com

Specializing in Substance Abuse/Addictions Counseling

                                                ***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: ODD-ADD-ADHD Children

From: Aliceann Carlton <ayurveda@mint.net>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:18:51 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by aliceann carlton <ayurveda@mint.net> :



At 04:57 PM 02/18/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :

>

>In a message dated 2/17/00 5:21:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>dsbarb@voyager.net writes:

>

><< I read an article that said St. Johns Wort could be used to

>  treat hyperactive children. .......

>  Barb

>******************************************************************



ODD, ADHD, PDD -----



There is still a determined practice in the mental health diagnosis and 

treatment fields to stick as many diagnoses on children as possible and to 

treat each as a separate entity.  While many symptoms fit the DSM IV 

criteria, this rarely addresses the causes of Oppositional Defiant 

Disorder, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Attention Deficit 

Disorder, Pervasive Development Disorder, Overanxious Disorder or Major 

Depression.



In the fourteen years I have worked as a clinician assessing children  I 

continue to be amazed at the treatment of symptoms rather than the needs of 

the children.  With nearly 50% of children in the US growing up in homes 

where there is violence, gee willikers, what would be the logical 

consequence of feeling and physically experiencing terror, humiliation, no 

trust or predictability in day to day life?



Bravo Mary for drawing attention (no pun intended) to establishing and/or 

restoring elements of survival for children......correct foods, comfort, 

safety, and love.  Each child is wired differently and the reaction to 

stress, even "good" stress, is unique.  Some kids become frantic, some 

aggressive, some stubborn, some "shut down" and some become dangerous to 

themselves and others.



True ADHD is rare in spite of the frequency of diagnosis and medication to 

"control" behavior.  Anxious depression is more frequent and sometimes use 

of anti-depressants is helpful in the short term along with therapy.  But 

nothing diagnoses the terror and emptiness children experience when either 

their homes or their school, care provider's environment is dangerous or 

neglectful to them.



BTW -- lavender, cinnamon or vanilla oil in an aroma a lamp or even touched 

on a light shade will do much to soothe a distraught or overanxious 

youngster.   Use of a bath, as Mary pointed out, is one way to comfort and 

soothe a child that cannot be otherwise "held." There is nothing that will 

replace loving touch and companionship however.



Best Regards,

Aliceann Carlton



LifeWorks -- Traditional Ayurvedic Medicine Homepage --

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: ODD-ADD-ADHD Children

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:08:53 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/19/00 8:24:33 AM, ayurveda@mint.net writes:



<< With nearly 50% of children in the US growing up in homes 

where there is violence, gee willikers, what would be the logical 

consequence of feeling and physically experiencing terror, humiliation, no 

trust or predictability in day to day life? >>



Amen.  Again, I say, we are a society consumed with ME.  What's in it for ME, 

how can I get the best, the fastest, the richest, the highest?  Damn anyone 

who dares to take away my time.  Like a child who only asks for love.  I pity 

these parents who aren't there for their children when the children need them 

the most.  They are only little for a short time.  When these parents are old 

or ill, where will their children be then?  Only practicing what they've been 

taught by their parents.  I completely put aside a very lucrative profession 

and a six-figure offer to stay home and care for 7 children on a blue-collar 

income.

At least if my kids go awry, I can honestly say I have given them my very best

.  

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:prostate cancer

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:55:56 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



> there is a co worker who's husband had surgery this morning for

prostate

> cancer.   I was wondering if there are any herbs or vitamins that I

can tell

> them about that  might help in his healing process as well as

helping him

> fight this if they don't get it all.   they are supposed to also

check his

> lymph nodes to make sure it wasn't spread to there, I  hope not.  If

there

> are any things at all that anyone can pass on to me I would  greatly

> appreciate it.  Anything that helped any survivors.

>

Dear Cindy Lee,

Pau d'Arco [Tabebuia avellenedae] and Willow herb [Epilobium

angustifolium] are the two herbs to fight prostate cancer.  Epilobium

is used often on its own here in Australia, it it is talked about even

on TV as some well-known people are using it successfully here,

successfully.

Regards,

Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: prostate cancer

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:32:45 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :



> there is a co worker who's husband had surgery this morning for prostate

> cancer.   I was wondering if there are any herbs or vitamins that I can tell

> them about that  might help in his healing process as well as helping him

> fight this if they don't get it all.   they are supposed to also check his

> lymph nodes to make sure it wasn't spread to there, I  hope not. If there

> are any things at all that anyone can pass on to me I would  greatly

> appreciate it.  Anything that helped any survivors.



There is an herbal product called PC-SPES made by BotanicLab

that is reported to be beneficial for prostate cancer (nci). PC-SPES

is a combination of 8 different herbs. An article appeared in the

New England Medical Journal a little over a year ago in which the

study found a significant decrease in PSA levels in PC-SPES-patients.

Side effects were estrogen-like such as gynecomastia in a relatively

high number of subjects. There is little information comparing this 

dietary supplement with conventional estrogen therapy which has 

also been shown to be beneficial for prostate cancer. For more 

information, call BotanicLab at 714-524-5533. Caution ..PC-SPES 

is not cheap.



Elliot Freeman RPh



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Andrographis

From: Pamela Quayle <herbgatherer@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:49:09 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgatherer@snet.net :



I have just received a newsletter from Richter's Seed Company - they

cover some rather interesting legal and research information in a

monthly newsletter.



There is an article on Andrographis paniculata research on use for colds

as reported in Phytomedicine.  It states it is rather popular in

Scandinavia for this use.  I've never heard the name.



Anyone know the plant and where it grows?



Pamela.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Andrographis

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 21:20:39 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Pamela Quayle <herbgatherer@snet.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>I have just received a newsletter from Richter's Seed Company - they

>cover some rather interesting legal and research information in a

>monthly newsletter.

>

>There is an article on Andrographis paniculata research on use for colds

>as reported in Phytomedicine.  It states it is rather popular in

>Scandinavia for this use.  I've never heard the name.



I've heard of it, but that may have been in one of the olde tomes I scan and put

online.



Funny how magic pills always pop up in far away places. Over here it's South

America, or the wide plains of Siberia (note that there didn't used to be very

much traffic from those parts to anywhere else, so you could safely say just

about anything of just about any plant with nobody being the wiser...)



No, I can't say that Andrographis is widely used in Scandinavia. At least it's

not widely used in Finland.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Andrographis

From: Pamela Quayle <herbgatherer@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 20:32:06 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgatherer@snet.net :



> Funny how magic pills always pop up in far away places. Over here it's

> South

> America, or the wide plains of Siberia

>



Not so funny how these reports of "studies" always make the rounds just prior to the

major marketing campaign.



Speaking of the wide plains of Siberia.  I'm often asked in general herb programs

that I do for garden clubs, centers, etc if Perovskia has any uses.  My pat answer

is that it is included in herb gardens because of appearance and the common name

Russian Sage, but often wonder if there are Russian folk uses.  Anyone know?



Pamela



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Andrographis

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:05:21 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> >There is an article on Andrographis paniculata research on use for colds



> I've heard of it, but that may have been in one of the olde tomes I

> scan and put online.

> 

> Funny how magic pills always pop up in far away places. 



Andrographis is used in Chinese herbalism (it is in the acanthus family).

Since the Chinese were, up til the last few centuries, the world's premier

plant scientists, it isn't surprising that they have come up with many

'magic pills.' In each area of the world plant specialists have found

wonderful plants; this is not a cause of suspicion, even though the

commercial intentions associated with these plants tend to be. 



People don't have a context for plant use. They don't understand illness,

or herbalism. Therefore, they are prey to plant hucksters, and to drug

hucksters for that matter.



[This last week I spoke with a co-worker at my new job, who had

dangerously high blood pressure. The barbers were talking of giving her

FURTHER hormone therapy, and they were talking about perhaps using

psychiatric drugs.



I asked a few questions, and then told her to stop drinking her daily cup

of coffee (duh; the doctors thought it couldn't hurt), stop eating fruit

(weakens the qi, which can indirectly destabilize blood pressure), and to

drink more water (dehydration can cause high blood pressure). Three days

later, NORMAL blood pressure. How embarassing for her 'hair stylists.' How

many of these cases are out there? Seems to me there are plenty.



Of course, this was a young woman, so ymmd. But it goes a long way towards

pointing out that the barbers are as or more guilty of hyping their wares

than the plant commecialists.]



Andrographis is not a cold remedy. It is used like goldenseal is used: for

FIRE complaints. But, because there have been so many mistreatments of

colds using over the counter and prescribed drugs, it becomes efficacious

to use fire clearing plants where previously nothing so drastic was

needed. 



Bensky has a good write-up on it...page 95 of 'his' (translated) materia

medica.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Andrographis

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:03:01 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone) wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>> >There is an article on Andrographis paniculata research on use for colds

>> I've heard of it, but that may have been in one of the olde tomes I

>> scan and put online.

>> 

>> Funny how magic pills always pop up in far away places. 

>

>Andrographis is used in Chinese herbalism (it is in the acanthus family).

>Since the Chinese were, up til the last few centuries, the world's premier

>plant scientists, it isn't surprising that they have come up with many

>'magic pills.' 



The minute it's said to be "widely used in Scandinavia" (which it is not) it's a

magic pill. This has nothing to do with its history in Chinese herbalism.



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Andrographis

From: "Antti Hovi" <AHOVI@latkk.lpt.fi>

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:58:09 EETDST

--------

Sent to the herblist by antti hovi <ahovi@latkk.lpt.fi> :



hetta@saunalahti.fi (Henriette Kress) wrote:

>No, I can t say that Andrographis is widely used in Scandinavia. At 

>least it s not widely used in Finland.



First I thought that I do totally agree. I had perhaps heard this name 

before, but had never heard how to use it and where it comes from.



But it happened, that again a new form of flue came to my workplace. 

Others were coughing, but I only developed some fever and was one day 

in bed (yesterday). After taking echinacea and Cetraria islandica 

(recommended also by Henriette), what did I see in my refrigerator? 

A bottle made of Magic Pill - Andrographis paniculata! 

Now I remembered that in this extract form Andrographis really is 

widely used in Finland and is selling well also. 

I think most of the users have not paid any attention to the name 

Andrographis in small print.

Other main ingredient is Adhatoda vasica (Justicia adhatoda), and I 

think it was actually years ago the main ingredient before 

Andrographis was added to the formula. 

This malabar nut is said to be effective in chest problems and to be 

an expectorant. So they have combined chinese and ayurvedic medicine 

(or tried to do it). 

From my own experience I can say that this combination seems to be 

quite efficient in checking the development of general colds if taken 

immediately when you feel it is coming. 



p-iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone) wrote:

> Andrographis is  .... for FIRE complaints

> but, because there has been so many mistreatments of colds using 

> over the counter and prescribed drugs, it becomes efficacious to use 

> fire clearing plants where previously nothing so drastic was needed.



I have usually stopped taking this Adhatoda/Andrographis-formula 

after first days, because I have felt it really is quite powerful and 

has effects which I do not need after first days in treating a cold.

There is often also liquorice and echinacea, even ginger added to 

these plant extracts (no commercial interest). 

I would like to use better original chinese formulas, but they are not 

available. I would like to visit a chinese doctor, I have heard that 

there exists one in the Capital (one for 5 million Finns). 



And Henriette, if I would not have Cetraria islandica in my kitchen as 

dried, as I do, it would be difficult to dig it out of this one feet 

snow cover (I must admit reindeers manage do it). 

I mean that an ordinary citizen has not much choices (if he/she is 

not extremely well educated in herbalism) here in Finland, he/she can 

consult one chinese doctor in capital or one european herbalist,

Henriette, near the capital - or by this magic pill from the nearest 

market, like also I have done this time (in addition to echinacea and 

Cetraria islandica).



Antti Hovi

antti.hovi@helsinki.fi



Antti Hovi

suunnittelija (FM)

Helsingin yliopisto, Lahden tutkimus- ja koulutuskeskus

Saimaankatu 11, 15140 Lahti

e-mail: antti.hovi@helsinki.fi

puh: 03- 892 20305

fax: 03- 892 20298



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Joe Pye

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:31:27 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :



Someone I know is writing a book with a portion detailing the life of Joe 

Pye, the famous Native American healer for which Jopi weed (Eupatorium 

purpureum) is named in the USA. His name referenced in several books 

that I've read, but can anyone reply with a reference that details his life a 

little more discriptively? Please reply with a cc to me at elfreem@aol.com. 

thanx



Elliot Freeman



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: medical marijuana/attack on plants

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:47:13 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> The 

> correlation between marijuana and the escalation to other drugs is 

> unavoidable.  The link is so strong and so indisputable, that you

> cannot deny  it.  



Easily. There is no evidence of that AT ALL. People, children especially,

choose to alter their awareness for a range of reasons. Marijuana is a

plant that has a profound affect on awareness. But it is hardly the

plant's fault or orientation that other drugs be tried for their effects.

The plant itself is quite proud, and considers it's own counsel

sufficient. Which is, btw, the thing parents and social leaders don't like

about it: it fosters its own interpretations. That can be dangerous to a

child; but it is hardly the plant's fault. Political leaders and society

itself do exactly the same thing.



>"But", you say, "I don't use stronger drugs", or

> "I've been using  marijuana for a long time without deletrious

> effects."  This is a cloud of  self-denial that you live in.  It has

> far more physiological and psycological  effects than you can

> imagine.  



We as a race have used marijuana for millenia. It is neither dramatically

harmful or risk-free. Like most things that have direction, it is a road

you can walk on. And maybe you'll end up in a bad place if you're the

wrong person for that road. And maybe it's perfect for you. No one else

has a right to say, in my libertarian view at least.



>I have seen innumerable cases of marijuana  cases gone

> wrong in the ER and the ICU.  



No you haven't. There is no record of such things anywhere in the medical

literature.



>I have seen autopsies on drug users 

> that would make your hair curl (to put it nicely). 



No you haven't, at least not marijuana autopsies. There are no records of

deaths due to this plant.



>It is not an innocuous  drug.  



It is not innocuous, nor is it demonic. It's a PLANT. That seems to escape

your notice.



> Like alcohol and tobacco, you have to examine the

> real reason why you  feel that you

>  need to alter your way of thinking/responding, or feeling.  



You can examine your reasons for living in every way you see fit. Plant

use has been ongoing now for well over 200,000 years. Modern social

restrictions on plant use are total experiments, compared to that history

of usage. 



It is not easy to develop good ties to plants, it takes time, and the lack

of cultural support for those investigations  that would PREVENT most of

the damage we see around us is more to blame than the attempt to connect

with that history of plant use. Demonizing plants is a form of ignorance.



> And if marijuana  is legalized, where will it stop from there?  



Marijuana is a plant, it is not a member of our society. You cannot

'legalize' a plant. You can attempt to control the lifestyles of people in

your society, but that has nothing to do with the plant. 



You are talking about USAGE. Similarly, tobacco USAGE in the form of

cigarettes is bad for your health, because it easily overwhelms the lung

and lymph systems, especially in the cases of prevalent subclinical

malnutrition we see on all sides. in neither case is there cause to

condemn the plant, and doing so is like condemning sunshine for burning

your rutabagas. Nonsensical.



> How about coke or lsd, but only  under "controlled supervision"?  You see

> where the thinking goes on from  there?



How about coca? Coca has been used in this hemisphere for thousands of

years. It is an ENORMOUSLY healing and healthy plant, when used

traditionally. I resent the fact that it isn't available for MY use, and

the use of my clients. Coca leaves have helped millions of people to live

better lives. Just because modern scientists invented cocaine is not the

plant's fault. You NEVER saw problems with the use of this plant in native

societies.



>     Yes, I have heard all the arguments before, that man has done this

for 

> many a time.  But have you ever read the life histories of some of these 

> people - I am not talking about books steeped in romance, heresay and 

> conjecture.  I am talking about nuts and bolts biographies.  Many of

these 

> people were delusional, paranoid, and suicidal.  And that brings me to

my 

> first point:  suicidal people in the emergency room, rotting livers, 

> abscessed brains.  



Name more than one or two books on 'these people.' And then explain why

'these people's' delusional, paranoid, suicidal mentalities are the

plants' fault.



>     Do I smoke?  No.  you need only care for one person on a ventilator

for 

> life, and you would never touch another cigarette.  



Smoking and 'cigarettes' are not equivalent. Do I smoke? YES. Did my

father die from cancer from cigarette smoking (and other factors, combined

with poor nutrition)? YES. But those things are unrelated, because I smoke

for specific reasons a couple of times a year. And I GUARANTEE you that

there is no health problem with doing so. Tobacco is a very healthy,

healing plant, when used cautiously by someone with good nutrition, who

knows how to abate the accumulation of plant tars just like he or she

abates the accumulation of smog.



>Do I do illegal drugs?  No, you need only care for one person delusional

and paranoid from a

> toke of  something laced with who-knows-what; never able to recover

> his 'right' mind  to not touch the stuff.  



The adulteration of plant products is not the plant's fault. The same goes

for tobacco or coca.



>Do I drink?  Rarely.  you

> need only take care of  your father once from the most horrific and

> frightening cancer I have ever  seen to not constantly imbibe the

> stuff.  We have a society that is consumed  with feeling good no

> matter the cost.  



I have lived in this society for a very long time, and I would not

characterize these people as being consumed with a desire to feel good. In

fact, this is a very sick society, one that performed a genocide in this

very land, and which arrived here with extensive venereal and other

diseases previously unknown here. That these people are still sick,

especially after a couple hundred years of misguided medical 'therapy,' is

not surprising. It ain't the plants' fault.



>Frankly, it frightens the heck out of  me.  It's

> time to take responsibility, John.  Be a grown-up.  There's more 

> around you than defending your right to get high.

> Diane



You, Diane, need to get some perspective.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: medical marijuana/attack on plants

From: HerbsZen@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:14:57 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Will Eckhardt <Herbszen@aol.com> :



Besides if you worry about your children getting the drug, they are now! If 

we legalize it , like alcohol, it is then a controled source and although 

some will get access it would not be from the dealer down the road. If 

controled it would not have a dose of say PCP in it that might put you in an 

ER, not the pot.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: medical marijuana/attack on plants

From: Hideen@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:49:23 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by hideen@aol.com :



Hi everyone

I just have to get my 2 cents in here! First of all there is a big difference 

between a user and an abuser. If you take away the plant from the abuser, 

their problems just don't go away, they still exist, like Paul said, it is 

not the plants fault. The plant is just used as an excuse, so one can deny 

the real problem. 

 I do not think that marijuana is a gateway drug. If it were legal, and a 

person did not have to go to a "dealer" to obtain it, there would be nobody 

pushing other drugs at them. I have witnessed plenty of users, all of them 

respectable members of society, great jobs, lovely family's. Coming home from 

a hard days work and "lighting up" is no different to them than coming home 

and popping open a beer!

 Also hemp is a very useful product. One field of hemp would save acres of 

rainforest trees in the production of paper, it can produce 3 times the fiber 

than a field of cotton. I have seen first hand what the tobacco farmers in 

the state of KY are going through. Hemp fields could be their answer. Most of 

them already are reduced to growing it illegally just to be able to keep up 

the farm, due to a tremendous lack of good paying jobs in that state. If they 

get caught, well there goes the farm that has been in the family for 

generations.

 As a herb grower myself, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the 

plant. I think the good of it by far, out weighs the bad, and god(s) placed 

it on this earth for the good of man.



Adrianne



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: medical marijuana/attack on plants

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:19:57 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



>  and god(s) placed 

> it on this earth for the good of man.



Ever ask the plants why WE were put here?



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: medical marijuana/attack on plants

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:09 +0000 (GMT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk :



In-Reply-To: <LYR97981-39274-2000.02.21-00.01.07--psilver#cix.compulink.co.uk@-

franklin.oit.u>

Hi,



Adrianne said:-

> I do not think that marijuana is a gateway drug. If it were legal, and 

> a person did not have to go to a "dealer" to obtain it, there would be 

> nobody pushing other drugs at them.



I have worked for the Police here in England and it is a fact that over 

here, very few dealers handle both marijuana and other 'harder' drugs. 



PatS



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: probiotics

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 15:57:33 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



I am just recovering from a very nasty bronchial pneumonia & sinusitis.  

Needless to say, after using all the herbs I could to stay this, it got far 

worse.  Now I am on antibiotics, and know I have to use probiotics.  But I 

have several sources with significant conflicting advice.

How long do I take it after I am done with the antibiotics?  I am on the 

(very) expensive Z-pack; that's a 5-day regimen, and the drug is supposed to 

stay in your system for quite a while after that.  

Do I take them only once a day, or more often?  Empty stomach or with food?

Any combo that's especially more helpful than others? (acidophilus and 

bifidus, or what?)

Any help towards laying this to rest would surely help.

thanks,

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: probiotics

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 05:58:46 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



You have normally around 500 species of probiotic bacteria in your gut,

acidophilous being in the highest quantity.  Take a medicinal piece of

blue cheese the size of a OOO capsule twice a day.  Miso soup for lunch 

(add miso after the water is warm and don't cook it).  Unsweetened whole

milk yogurt (you need the fat) once a day.  Vary your brands and types of

yogurt and miso.  Liberally lace your diet with unpasteurized pickles,

sauerkraut, kim chee, olives, and other fermented foods.  If you want to,

take a refrigerated probiotic supplement with enterec coating.  NO fruit,

sugars or refined flour until your bacteria are built up- you don't want

to feed any candida.  



You probably need to do this intensely for two weeks, then wean down to a

comfortable lifestyle level of probiotic foods.

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain." --Dolly Parton



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: probiotics (where to find them)

From: joel <mango@gelrevision.nl>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 00:26:16 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by joel <mango@gelrevision.nl> :



Where do these (our!) probitics naturally come from?

say i want to make healthy yoghurt myself from milk, where could i get the

good bacteria? except from a package with the living bacteria already in it.

I mean where do they naturally reside, and how did people gather them?

if anyone knows or has a clue, them please let me and us know.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: probiotics (where to find them)

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 21:51:01 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



If you were a nomad and stored your milk in a leather bag made of an

animal stomach, you would soon have fermented milk which would survive

for a time without refrigeration.  If you let milk sour, you have grown

probiotic bacteria, but hopefully have avoided putrifying bacteria. 

Bread dough, where a small amount was left over as a starter for the next

days baking, picks up its own cultures, especially as it sours.  Salted

cabbage left to ferment picks up bacteria from the air.  



Over the years, people have selected those strains that tasted best and

cultivated them as "starters" - hence prize yogurt starters,

buttermilk/keir strains and even varietals of wine yeast or vinegar

mothers.  The wild strains may or may not be satisfactory.  The strains

in your own gut began to colonize you through your mother's milk, and the

balance shifted with your diet and exposures over the years.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain." --Dolly Parton



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nepeta cataria

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:26:16 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> >Catnip, like nettles (its relative), is a stimulant mint. 

> 

> Catnip is calming, in western herbal medicine. Of course, it smells

> so bad that I usually use other herbs.



It is calming, but it is also stimulant (just watch what it does to cats).

It is diaphoretic, which is not a calming (centripetal) affect in any

case. Although it is considered refrigerant, I think this is probably a

case of evaporative cooling. Another mint with some hot properties.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nepeta cataria

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 06:38:49 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>Catnip, like nettles (its relative), is a stimulant mint.



Paul, it looks like you slipped a bit.  Catnip (nepeta cataria, family

Lamiaceae) and nettles (Urtica dioica, family Urticaceae) are in different

families.  One is not a relative of the other.



I liked your post on medical marijuana.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Nepeta cataria

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:50:58 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> >Catnip, like nettles (its relative), is a stimulant mint.

> 

> Paul, it looks like you slipped a bit.  Catnip (nepeta cataria, family

> Lamiaceae) and nettles (Urtica dioica, family Urticaceae) are in

different

> families.  One is not a relative of the other.



I often make this sort of stupid error. Unfortunately for me, I've had too

little wildcrafting. I've made up for it with a keen eye, but one of the

things I always respect in healers here like Karen and Henriette is their

commitment to raw plants----something Chinese healing, a relatively urban

practice, generally does not make available. 



I collect sparingly, since the local areas are under such stress. (If only

I could find a good teacher of the desert plants!). 



When I read Howie Brounstein's pages, I always feel a considerable

loss...thinking back to my years of such 'leisure.' I spent an entire

season once, 'just' collecting Amanita muscaria for daring monks at LA Zen

Center. And a few seasons nibbling my way through the Sierras. But that

was awhile ago. I still pluck and smell and rub and marvel, whenever I

have a chance. UCLA's botanical garden is sometimes a godsend, and I still

regret not having the timing to go and collect a ten pound sack of mimosa

flowers (Albizzia) when they bloom on campus every year (they're just

swept up and discarded, unknown gold!). 



These flowers are one of the greatest of all therapies for the emotional

side of the heart, being as good as Ignatia for grief, regret and

heartache. 



It is hard to have the time to learn in nature.



Wintergreen might have been a better reference.



> I liked your post on medical marijuana.



You would have liked my posts on tobacco, too, but unfortunately they

never appeared. I keep at this email stuff to a great degree because of my

feelings of duty to tobacco, a great and kind spirit who has a

considerable love and respect for human beings. 



Too bad so many smoke like they're deaf.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: alfalfa

From: AWoehlke@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:48:04 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by AWoehlke@aol.com :



Can anyone give the definitive advice concerning alfalfa?

And why it is contraindicated in those with autoimmune diseases?

Diane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Ginko Biloba

From: Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:30:42 +0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk> :



I've recently read a lot about Ginkgo Biloba and have been taking

about 240mg a day since October/November.  I find it expensive,

but if it does even a quarter of what's claimed for it, it will be well

worth it.  Last week however, in my usual health food store, I spotted

a much cheaper version of Ginkgo and bought a couple of bottles.

Back home, comparing the label details, I'm confused:  both contain

'ginkgo biloba leaf' and I can see very little reason for the big

difference in price:



[a]

The original, expensive, version is described thus:

     'Ginkgo Biloba Standardized Extract'. 60mg, 240 tabs     

    (60 x 240 = 14,400mg)

Each tablet contains Ginkgo Biloba extract 60mg.

    (Standardised for a minimum of 24% Ginkgo Flavone Glycosides)

    

[b]

The new, much cheaper version is described as:

    'Ginkgo Herbal Tablets each containing Ginkgo Leaf'

    250mg, 100 tabs (250 x 100 = 25,000mg)

Each tablet contains Ginkgo Biloba (dried leaf) 250mg.

Elsewhere on the label there is a little circle which states:

    Non-irridiated.  Certified Potency.



So, [b] contains more of the Ginkgo Leaf, is of 'certified potency' and

is much cheaper, while [a]'s only advantage appears to be,

   "Standardised for a minimum of 24% Ginkgo Flavone Glycosides"

Does that mean that [a] is reliable and [b] is not?



If money were no object I'd buy [a] on the grounds that it's

expensive, so it must be better.  But I wonder......  I intend to go on

buying [b] and see what happens.  I'm an optimist :-)

-- 

Julia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginko Biloba

From: "Teresa Cantrell" <tcantrel@herbsnow.com>

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 23:25:03 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teresa cantrell <tcantrel@herbsnow.com> :



Julia  stated:

"I've recently read a lot about Ginkgo Biloba and have been taking about

240mg a day since October/November.  I find it expensive, but if it does

even a quarter of what's claimed for it, it will be well worth it."



Are you noticing any benefit from the ginkgo?  I would expect that if were

going to, you would have noticed a difference by now.  Maybe not the full

benefit, but certainly something.  I notice a difference within a few days

when I use ginkgo.  Maybe I just need it more than you.



As to label claims, I've taken different brands of the same herb (with

virtually identical labels).  I noticed no difference with one brand and had

great results with the other.  You may want to ask the companies for their

quality control information.



Best of Health,



Teresa Cantrell

email  tcantrel@HerbsNow.com

website http://www.HerbsNow.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginko Biloba

From: "Sabra Way" <sabraway@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:18:56 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by sabra way <sabraway@hotmail.com> :



Bottled herbs are so unrealiable. Because version a) states that is contains

the "active ingredient" to a certain standardised amount you are supposed to

be guaranteed that it will indeed be in there. Product b) does not state

this so you really have no idea what is in there as far as the "active

ingredient" goes. This does not solve your problem however. I would just

like to point out that groups have tested bottled dried herbs and found

claims aside, that some bottles did not contain anything near what they

claimed.  Price did not seem to be a key factor as even the most expensive

brands were not consistant in product quality. You could buy the herb in dry

loose form and make tea from it. That way you know what your getting.



sabra



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginko Biloba

From: Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:59:32 +0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk> :



 Sabra Way <sabraway@hotmail.com> writes

>Sent to the herblist by sabra way <sabraway@hotmail.com> :

>

>Bottled herbs are so unrealiable. Because version a) states that is contains

>the "active ingredient" to a certain standardised amount you are supposed to

>be guaranteed that it will indeed be in there. Product b) does not state

>this so you really have no idea what is in there as far as the "active

>ingredient" goes. This does not solve your problem however. I would just

>like to point out that groups have tested bottled dried herbs and found

>claims aside, that some bottles did not contain anything near what they

>claimed.  Price did not seem to be a key factor as even the most expensive

>brands were not consistant in product quality. You could buy the herb in dry

>loose form and make tea from it. That way you know what your getting.

>

>sabra

>

That sounds promising.  I've never seen it sold, or even advertised,

in dry loose form.  Have you any idea where I could obtain it?

-- 

Julia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginko Biloba

From: "Sabra Way" <sabraway@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:07:32 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by sabra way <sabraway@hotmail.com> :



Julia,



Some health food stores sell bulk dry herbs. You can ask how fresh the herbs

are, where they are from and if they are organic. Another source would be

on-line. Maybe there are other people on this list that know a reliable

on-line source. I am fortunate to live in Vancouver where dry herbs are easy

to locate.



I heaped tsp. in 8oz. water gently simmered and strained. Dose would be 1/2

to 1 cup 3 times a day.  (Bartram) You could make up a days dose all at once

and store it in a thermous or drink it cold. Start at the 1/2 cup dose and

increase from there. Occasionally people will get a headache initially. The

contraindications  are actually headaches, migraines, a/coagulant therapy,

hemophilia and thrombus.



Good luck

Sabra



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginko Biloba

From: HarperP@aol.com

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:33:48 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by harperp@aol.com :



Hi, Julia.

Cost is often more closely related to marketing than value in herbal 

products, but in this case, the difference may be due to processing.  You 

have two different products: one is a standardized extract, the other is 

powdered herb.



To make a standardized extract, first the leaf is extracted in a menstrum 

(liquid), then the cellulose is removed, the extract is dried, and the 

residual is tested for its level of "Ginkgo Flavone Glycosides," (only one 

component of the herb, which is used as a "benchmark") then adjusted to the 

stated 24%.  The resulting powder is then weighed and combined with fillers 

to make your tablets.



Your other gingko product is made by powdering gingko leaves, and possibly 

some fillers, then compressing the mixture into 250 mg tablets.



There is a lot of debate about which is better. Most of the research on 

Gingko has been done on standardized extracts; on the other hand, the plant 

was selected for research because it was effective in its unprocessed state! 

The standardization gives researchers a greater sense of control over the 

product.  



Frankly, whether or not cost is an issue, I would try the herb in as close to 

its natural state as you can find it.  The least expensive, and most 

satisfying approach is to order bulk gingko leaves and make tea, as Sabra 

suggested.  It's pretty easy to powder and capsulize the herb yourself if you 

prefer pills to tea.  If you really like the ease of a bottled product, try 

the inexpensive one first, and only spend more if you don't notice any 

results.



Patricia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginko Biloba

From: Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:29:30 +0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk> :



 HarperP@aol.com writes

>Cost is often more closely related to marketing than value in herbal 

>products, but in this case, the difference may be due to processing.  

(snip)

>There is a lot of debate about which is better. Most of the research on 

>Gingko has been done on standardized extracts; on the other hand, the plant 

>was selected for research because it was effective in its unprocessed state! 



Good point.



>The standardization gives researchers a greater sense of control over the 

>product.  

>

>Frankly, whether or not cost is an issue, I would try the herb in as close to 

>its natural state as you can find it.  The least expensive, and most 

>satisfying approach is to order bulk gingko leaves and make tea, as Sabra 

>suggested. 

>Patricia



I'd be happy to take it as a tea but, as I've just posted to Sabra, I've

never seen it on sale loose.  We have only one 'health food' store

here and it's big business.  Everything's in either capsules or

tablets.  



Mind you, when I first became interested in herbs - about 20 years

ago - I lived near a town that had an 'apothecary-type' of shop; lots

of little mahogany drawers with Latin names in gold lettering on the

wall behind the counter.  You could often identify the dried herb by

its appearance, or smell.  That's when I discovered that Valerian

root stinks!  Having bought some because the book I was reading

recommended it, I came out of the shop and walked through the

town thinking there was something seriously wrong with Llanelli's

drains.  In the car park I checked my shoes to see if I'd stepped on

dog's dirt.  In the car I realised the smell was coming from the brown

paper package on the seat beside me :-)  At home (on the farm) it

took a few minutes to find a glass jar with a tight lid and the smell

lingered in my kitchen.  When my husband came in he decided he

didn't want any tea that day -- and stormed out!  As he had done,

years before in Singapore when I tried to serve us Durian fruit for

lunch, but by then we had become dairy farmers and he was

shovelling cow manure every day, you'd think he would have been

less sensitive!.  I've never seen Valerian on sale in root form

anywhere else.  I wonder why ? :-)

-- 

Julia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginko Biloba

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:31:25 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Price did not seem to be a key factor as even the most expensive

> >brands were not consistant in product quality. You could buy the

> herb in dry >loose form and make tea from it. That way you know what

> your getting. >

> >sabra



> That sounds promising.  I've never seen it sold, or even advertised,

> in dry loose form.  Have you any idea where I could obtain it?



Dry herb has exactly the same 'deficiencies.' These are natural products.

They work, and have worked, just fine for millenia. But you're buying the

conventional medicine view, which ultimately, historically, led from

fresh, to dry (availability and commercial forces), to tinctures to

isolates, to drugs. Doctors are afraid for potency, while I've been

healing with pills and capsules for going on three decades, and Chinese

healing has made pills and powders for at least two thousand years. It

ain't broke!



Standardization is a gigantic canard. Buy into it if you will. But there

are literally hundreds if not thousands of chemicals in a plant, and they

vary in concentration ALL THE TIME. 



And that's fine. The plants aren't contained in the chemistry. That's

looking through the telescope from the wrong end.



Chemistry is not the only basis for reality. Materialism does not contain

all the facts.



Plant people aren't dyed-in-the-er, wool materialists anyhow. How could

they be? Where did this profusion of plants come from? Evolution? Natural

selection does not explain nature.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginko Biloba

From: HarperP@aol.com

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:03:06 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by harperp@aol.com :



Hi Julia,



Bulk Gingko Biloba is available from many sources.  I absolutely trust 

Pacific Botanicals, in Grants Pass, OR (http://www.pacificbotanicals.com--for 

ordering information), but they only sell wholesale.  What I like best about 

them, besides having visited and worked a couple days on their fabulous, 

certified organic farm, is that you can order fresh leaves from them in 

season.  Year-round you can order it dried.  Frontier Herbs 

(www.frontiercoop.com), Starwest Botanicals (1-800-800-4372), and Trinity 

Herbs (www.trinityherb.com) are also reliable sources for dried herb.



Actually, Gingko is a common ornamental tree--check out some pictures or a 

botanical garden, then look around your neighborhood, you might find some 

nearby! (nothing else looks much like it) One note, Gingko, unlike most leaf 

herbs, is best harvested after the leaves turn yellow--green leaves (or 

powder) are a sign of inferior quality.



On another note, your valerian comments were hilarious!  Actually, the fresh 

root (also available from Pacific Botanicals), and fresh root tincture (to 

some extent) smells and tastes a *whole lot* better! (I get icky goosebumps 

just thinking about dried valerian tea. . . )



How did you like the Durian fruit? I read a Smithsonian (I think) article 

about it, but have never actually seen it.



Patricia



In a message dated 2/23/0 11:12:50 PM, JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk writes:



<< >Frankly, whether or not cost is an issue, I would try the herb in as 

close to 

>its natural state as you can find it.  The least expensive, and most 

>satisfying approach is to order bulk gingko leaves and make tea, as Sabra 

>suggested. 

>Patricia



I'd be happy to take it as a tea but, as I've just posted to Sabra, I've

never seen it on sale loose.  We have only one 'health food' store

here and it's big business.  Everything's in either capsules or

tablets.   >>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: MORE on medical marijuana...

From: John Leschinski <muscle@televar.com>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:21:12 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by muscle@televar.com :



Mary wrote:



>We already have it, called Marinol, in liquid form, available for extreme

>pain by prescription.



The thing about "Marinol" is that it's a THC isolate. Meaning, in the

cannabis plant, there is broad array of additional chemical constituents

that are NOT in the solo pill form. The physical result is different. Just

ask anyone who has had the advantage to compare the two, and you'll find

the whole plant is much better in terms of "effect" than the prescribed

pharmaceutical.



Michael Acord, you're another one who I was very impressed to see what you

had to say. We need many more MD's like yourself, willing to stick their

necks on the line to speak out on this subject like you did. Your post was

eloquently composed too. As a medical person yourself, I would imagine as

you say, it's extremely frustrating from your perspective. I'm really happy

to see though, that many more doctors ARE recognizing the value and are

willing to condone cannabis as a medicinal modality. I applaud you for your

fantastic post and support of the issue.



>From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com> wrote:



>Marinol is not a whole plant product, it is an extracted constituent of

>marijuana- a drug.  Its dosage cannot be as fine tuned as in other forms

>of marijuana.  And it still gets people high, so I don't see that it is

>any great improvement over the whole plant.



It's NOT an improvement. It really isn't. The reason being, with the entire

plant, there are as I mentioned, an array of other useful constituents that

add to the "balance" of the plant's overall effect, when ingested or taken

into the body.



>The issue of medical marijuana is not the same as unfettered access to

>the plant.



True! SO VERY TRUE!! This was what I was trying to express and why I wanted

to see what others had to say, when I was wrongly accused of unfounded

behavior such as getting "high" and the need to "grow up."



>It has a spirit that can demand allegience, as Paul once put it,

>but it can also be used sparingly and respectfully for good.



What I like about this, in what Paul said, is that the cannabis plant does

demand allegiance. It demands great respect. Just from the value of plant

beauty alone, personally speaking, it is one of the most gorgeous plants

I've ever seen. It can have so many different variations within its

species, depending on the propagated strain. Colors from red, yellow and

purple grace the flowers, to the most gorgeous shades of vibrant green.

I've never seen any other plant that demands such allegiance. I speak for

myself on this of course. <G>



"TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com> wrote:



>I've known two people who were prescribed the tablet form during their

>courses of chemo and it did them no good at all. One merely suffered,

>wanting only to be "legal".  She eventually died. The other said 'damn the

>torpedos full speed ahead' and used the occassional bong hit of quality pot

>to get himself over the humps. He survived.



Through the battle of cancer, ones "spirit" is immensely important in both

coping and thrusting toward survival. Like I said, the pill is the

government's method to compartmentalize and control the substance. It's

easier for them this way, but not necessarily better for individuals. The

whole plant offers much more, than an extracted isolate. THC, the primary

psychoactive constituent of cannabis, is not the only beneficial

constituent. There are others that work symbiotically as a whole.



"John J Macuga III" <john@cntr4universalization.org> wrote:



>I'm confused, is Cannabis the same as Hemp. If not! then the following was

>misinformation. If it is..... my apologies



Chris Conrad, in his book, "Hemp for Health," spells it out like this...

"The terms 'cannabis' and 'hemp' refer to the entire genus, as they have

for centuries. 'Resinous cannabis' and 'marijuana' refer to the strains

that produce a psychoactive effect."



Anyway, I was glad to see dialogue open on this particular issue. If only

society as a whole was as open and compassionate on this issue, as the

respondents on this list have been, to the issue on the whole.



Cheers,



John



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: MORE on medical marijuana...

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:23:46 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> >It has a spirit that can demand allegience, as Paul once put it,

> >but it can also be used sparingly and respectfully for good.

> 

> What I like about this, in what Paul said, is that the cannabis plant

does

> demand allegiance. It demands great respect. 



It certainly does. Not as much as poppy, but certainly more than coffee.



> Just from the value of plant beauty alone, personally speaking, it is

one of the most gorgeous plants

> I've ever seen. 



Appreciation that may be, but that doesn't look like respect. Look

carefully, because you may be looking with the plant's eyes, not your own.

Respect requires YOU holding the reins of your heart.



> It can have so many different variations within its

> species, depending on the propagated strain. Colors from red, yellow and

> purple grace the flowers, to the most gorgeous shades of vibrant green.

> I've never seen any other plant that demands such allegiance. I speak for

> myself on this of course. <G>



There are, of course, cults of particular plants around the world. 



I recommend not focussing your human mind too intensely on your 'love' for

these bud colors and leaf shapes. Marijuana is a charmer, and that is a

wonderful thing, because this sort of plant can charm people out of the

grave itself. And falling in love with a plant and living an additional

twenty years is better than dying because of a fear of relationships with

plants that have strong minds. Forget 'nausea'...that is the REAL issue.



But we should not give ourselves over to the plants. We have to measure,

very carefully, the right sort of relationship. 



Children, of course, are easily charmed, and for that reason Cannabis

should be kept from them. For adults, we are charmed by many things, and

that is our life, our freedom, our life with this life. A government that

criminalizes such native relationships and imprisons hundreds of thousands

for basically having the 'wrong' family relations, is still just being

'racist,' still trying to impose an external will that DOESN'T

understand---performing genocide on what it doesn't honor, respect, study,

or even conceive. Inalienable rights INCLUDE relationships with what is

alien...if they'll have us.



But, especially for those who desire to be healers, it is critical to

learn respect. Respect is not running to these plants like children,

easily charmed by their smoke or their color, dazed by their allure. Have

a little distance in your heart, if you want to be 'right' with the

medicine.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: MORE on medical marijuana...

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:54:10 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Paul Iannone wrote:



> But, especially for those who desire to be healers, it is critical to

> learn respect. Respect is not running to these plants like children,

> easily charmed by their smoke or their color, dazed by their allure. Have

> a little distance in your heart, if you want to be 'right' with the

> medicine.



I think this is exactly on the mark.  Because most of us have not been brought

up with any natural kind of relationship to either plants or animals, we tend

to romanticize them, on our way to developing the kind of real knowledge that

gives us respect for them.  It may be a necessary step in casting off the old

culture that gave us "dominion" over them, to their and our detriment.



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Herbalist in NW England

From: Susie McDermott <susie@thenet.net.nz>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:55:48 +1200

--------

Sent to the herblist by susie mcdermott <susie@thenet.net.nz> :



Can anyone refer me to a good herbalist or herbal dispensary in northwest England. I met a

woman the other day whose brother has been suffering from psoriasis for many years and

would like to start taking herbs as he's had enough of alopathic medicines.



Regards,



Susie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: catnip

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:20:54 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :



> p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone) wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>  >> Last week I was having insomnia, and I decided to

>  >> prepare a tea with two or

>  >> three fresh leaves...in order to sleep better...

>  >

>  >Catnip, like nettles (its relative), is a stimulant mint. 

>  

>  Catnip is calming, in western herbal medicine. Of course, it smells so bad 

that

>  I usually use other herbs.

>  

>  Henriette



I would seem like improbable that Catnip would be a stimulant and 

calming at the same time. It is logical to assume that either Western 

herbalism or Chinese herbalism must be correct, but not both. Is this

a Spock type of logic or is there another explanation for this disparity?

Is catnip a stimulant in cats but not humans? Perhaps we can hear

from people who use the herb and can describe its effects. Are they

calming ..or stimulating?



Elliot Freeman



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: catnip

From: "Laurie Borgman" <laurie@cable.A2000.nl>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:47:54 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Laurie Borgman <laurie@cable.A2000.nl> :



> I would seem like improbable that Catnip would be a stimulant and 

> calming at the same time. It is logical to assume that either Western 

> herbalism or Chinese herbalism must be correct, but not both. 



Well, my cat is extremely stimulated by Valeriana officinalis, and that is

calming for humans. It seems possible the same is true for catnip.



Laurie Borgman (new member of this list)



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: catnip

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:19:18 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Elfreem@aol.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>I would seem like improbable that Catnip would be a stimulant and 

>calming at the same time. 



Calming to the mind, stimulant to some other organs? There's some such.

Calming to about 90 % of the population, stimulant less than one in ten? Yep,

there's those, too.



>Is catnip a stimulant in cats but not humans? 



I wouldn't call it a stimulant to cats, it's more an intoxicant. 

Not as much as dried valerian root, though. Some cats are clearly users, while

others are plain and crude abusers.



>Perhaps we can hear

>from people who use the herb and can describe its effects. Are they

>calming ..or stimulating?



Catnip is calming to a majority of people. Try it out: brew yourself a cuppa.



Cheers

Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: catnip

From: "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:09:49 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



Henriette wrote:



Catnip is calming to a majority of people. Try it out: brew yourself a

cuppa.

--------------------



This is my experience, also. My one word of caution would be, make it a bit

weaker than you might think desireable the first time, and increase strength

over subsequent brewings.  I'd hate for someone to err on the too strong

side their first time out. Too strong can make some folks vomit.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: catnip

From: Christa Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:47:36 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by cmaria@triton.net :



Catnip also will break a fever very well. C-M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: catnip

From: "plantpeople" <plantpeople@triton.net>

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:37:00 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by plantpeople@triton.net :



>

> I would seem like improbable that Catnip would be a stimulant and

> calming at the same time. It is logical to assume that either Western

> herbalism or Chinese herbalism must be correct, but not both. Is this

> a Spock type of logic or is there another explanation for this disparity?



Both:

Drink warm catnip on an empty stomach, you will increase the hunger

sensation.  It most definetley stimulates digestion, and has a mild warming

sensation.



Drink warm catnip on a full, bloated, gasy or colicy stomach, and catnip

will still act to stimulate digestion - only now its effect is to digest

food more effieciently and thus calm the upset stomach.  Catnip also has an

anti-spasmodic action from its volatile essential oils, which contributes to

its calming influence.



Many people hold nervous energy in the stomach, relax the stomach and you

ease tension, hence catnip's effectiveness to soothe and calm stress and

tension.  I find it excellant for children who have a nervous stomach.



Drink warm catnip and you will increase body temperature (will noticeably

register on a thermometer)and induce a sweat, and calm restless fever,

especially good for when asssocted with digestive flu symptoms.  Drink

before a warm bath and you will certainly notice this efect.



Drink cool catnip tea (not bad when flavored with a bit of lemon) and you

can help break a fever without noticeably raising the body temperature (by

oral thermometer) - not a bad beverage on a hot summers day since it will

increase perspiration and help cool you down.



Though catnips action is stimulating - this stimulating action is used to

calm and soothe....  how's that for Spock logic?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Sastun, and a few other things

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:50:37 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



I heard from Allan in South Dakota, about the child with lost hearing. He

said he would post here about it; perhaps he already has. In any case,

this is a cure to be credited to EPHEDRA, the great healer, just as every

pseudoephedrine cure is to her honor (and there have been millions).

Remember how great she is when you have the thought to condemn her for

methamphetamine labs and other human misuse. The earliest book to survive

in Chinese healing is Shang Han Lun, the lun or treatise on Shang Han,

injury by COLD. It is injury by cold that caused the great art of

moxibustion to be developed, as well as the great art of steaming, as well

as the great art of smudging. We owe a lot to cold; the barbers only know

heat.



I want to recommend that people here read Sastun, by Rosita Arvigo. It's

about plants, Mayan plants, and traditional healing. It's not so great of

a book, slow, pretty boring, rather flat. I didn't expect much when a

friend lent me a copy signed by the author. But it has one or two things

in it that are priceless to the right person. I especially liked the dream

experiences with the plants. I've had those, and one thing is for sure: I

doubt any barbers dream of the deity of Valium or the spirit in Xanax.



Lastly, I am enclosing a poem I translated yesterday, which I think speaks

something about nature. It is by the great but derided poet, Georg Trakl,

who died in 1914. He was a very strange man, and so am I, so naturally we

like each other. I hope you enjoy it.



"Am Monchsberg"

On the Monchsberg (berg=mountain)



Wo im Schatten herbstlicher Ulmen der verfallene Pfad hinabsinkt,

Where, in the shadows of fall-colored elms, the crumbling pathway falls

away,



Ferne den Hutten von Laub, schlafenden Hirten,

Far from the leafy huts of sleeping shepherds--



Immer fogt dem Wandrer die dunkle Gestalt der Kuhle.

Always follows the wanderer there, the dark shape of coolness.



Uber knochernen Steg, die hyazinthene Stimme des Knaben,

Over boney footbridges, a hyacinth voice, like that of a young boy,



Leise sagend die vergessene Legende des Walds.

Softly retells the forgotten events of the woods.



Sanfter ein Krankes nun die wilde Klage des Bruders.

Gentler, like an illness now, (is told) the violent sorrows of brothers.



Also ruhrt ein sparliches Grun das Knie des Fremdlings,

And thus touches a little green to the knee of strangers,



Das versteinerte Haupt;

And turns to stone their heads;



Naher rauscht der blaue Quell die Klage der Frauen.

While nearby murmurs a blue spring, like the sobbing of women.

--



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Sastun, and a few other things

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:22:41 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> The earliest book to survive

> in Chinese healing is Shang Han Lun, the lun or treatise on Shang Han,

> injury by COLD.



Well, I should have said 'one of the earliest.' And 'book' is a bit of a

cultural mistatement.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: MORE on the subject of "medical marijuana"...

From: John Leschinski <muscle@televar.com>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:43:59 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by muscle@televar.com :



While on Amazon.com's site, looking for a variety of books, I chanced upon

a title I hadn't seen before. The book has been around a while, but somehow

it's eluded me. It's one I definitely need to add to my collection and

SOON. :-) But that's beside the point. I thought, in light of the recent

discussion on the list here, regading medical marijuana, the following info

that explains this book, was very poignant. The title of the book, is

appropriate. Or so I think. It's called, "Marijuana: Not Guilty as

Charged." It's written by a former TV journalist and the co-help of Tod H.

Mikuriya, M.D. (Tod apparently a physician rather compassionate and

involved in the medical marijuana legalization battle. At least from what I

can gather.)



Here's what is indicated about the book. But it's not the book itself, I'm

trying to sell anyone on, but the fact that it clearly documents what the

U.S. government has done to stategize and perpetuate obstructing legal

access to cannabis. And apparently this has happened through the

influential deceptive practices of BIG BUSINESS.



So it is said...



"Author David R Ford brilliantly confirms marijuana's medical value. A

"must read" for every politician.(and anyone who wants to know the truth!)



Marijuana has proven medical value, as published March 17,1999 by the

Institute of Medicine, a division of the prestigious National Academy of

Sciences. Why then is it still prohibited medicine by the federal

government? Author, and former CBS television journalist from Hawaii, David

R. Ford reports the facts in his easy to read book. Ford explains how the

federal government created a systematic campaign of deception that began in

the 1930's. U.S. legislators were duped into outlawing this relatively

harnless plant--along with hemp, it's versatile NONINTOXICATING cousin.



The author paints a clear picture, with credible references, that marijuana

is intentionally kept as a Schedule One drug, with heroin,(too dangerous to

prescribe, and with no medical value!) At the same time, Marinol, the

synthetic pot capsule is easily available, but can cost up to $1,000 a

month. Other than the federal government, the war on marijuana is funded by

the alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceutical companies. Marijuana is their

competition. An herb cannot be patented. The book includes dozen's of

patient's stories,(including the author's, who is a cancer survivor.)

Marijuana: Not Guilty as Charged, also includes about every myth regarding

pot for the past 60 years. This book is a MUST READ, written by a man who

has spent over 50 years studying this subject."



It's information like this that helps clarify this issue for me. It

confirms what I have thought all along about this fantastic plant, the

corruption surrounding it, and how my conclusion has been parallel to my

intuition. I look forward to seeing the revolutionary changes in my

lifetime as a result of works like this book, and things such as thought

provoking discussions akin to those on this list.



John



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re(2): catnip

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:28:13 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> Catnip also will break a fever very well. C-M



Again, cooling by diaphoresis, a common technique in cold type fevers.



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: constituents of smelly herbs?

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:40:50 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



Dear Hetta, 

Dear List People: can you recommend a book or website might have

information like this on catmint and other smelly herbs?



Lindley's Treasury of Botany states: 'What is known to chemists as

volatile oil of Valerian seems not to exist naturally in the plant, but

to be developed by the agency of water.' 

The oil is contained in the sub-epidermal layer of cells in the root, not

in isolated cells or glands. It is of complex composition, containing

valerianic, formic and acetic acids, the alcohol known as borneol, and

pinene. The valerianic acid present in the oil is not the normal acid,

but isovalerianic acid, an oily liquid to which the characteristically

unpleasant odour of Valerian is due. It is gradually liberated during the

process of drying, being yielded by the decomposition of the chief

constituent, bornyl-isovalerianate...Marcia <ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: ADMIN- medical marihuana

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:13:12 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



I believe the discussion, as pertinent to the use of the plant in herbal

medicine, has been fairly well exhausted. 

The politics of said use is not really on-topic here (especially as not all

listmembers live in the US), and thus that part of the discussion is now

officially closed.



Cheers

Henriette, listowner.



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed

                 -+- Added more to King's Dispensatory -+-

Medicinal and Culinary herbFAQs, jpegs, database, neat stuff, archives...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Bupleurum

From: lynda.evers@perdue.com

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:27:19 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by lynda.evers@perdue.com :



Can you tell me what it is generally used for?

thanks, Lynda



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Bupleurum

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:05:31 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



<Would anyone have information on Bupleurum?>



Buplerum is antipyretic, diaphoretic, carminative and alterative.  In

other words it reduces fevers, makes you sweat so superficial heat

invasions can be driven back out, stimulates digestion with its spiciness

and helps the body clean the blood and interstitial fluids.



Buplerum, Chai hu, is the root of an umbellifrae family member, Bupleurum

chinese or B. scorzoneraefolium.  The herb is cold, bitter and nontoxic. 

It enters the Liver and Gallbladder channels in Chinese medical terms.

Buplerum is one of the most important Chinese herbs for treating the

liver because it acts on diseases which may be acute and chronic,

interior and esterior, hot and cold and from deficieincies or excess.  

It exerts a harmonizing action on the interior and exterior of the body,

thus balancing disparities in heat conditions or physiological functions.

  It courses the Liver which permits the Liver to harmonize body

functions.  It helps energy rise.  



The herb is used for someone who suffers from alternating fever and

chills, thoracic fullness, pain in the sides of the ribs, bitter taste in

the mouth, possible deafness, headache and dizziness.  It can be used for

hepatitis, malaria and dysentey, menstrual irregularities due to Liver

imbalances, and prolapse of the uterus.   It tends to regulate moodiness,

often dredging out old emotions that may be stored in the organs and

letting them disappate. Its spirit is thus cleansing and harmonizing.



Buplerum is generally used in formulas and there are a number of

traditional formulas, going back over 2000 years.  The formulas and

various preparations of Buplerum (wine fried, honey fried, vinegar fried,

stir fried, or prepared with turtle's blood) can emphasize aspects of the

action of the herb.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain." --Dolly Parton



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Bupleurum

From: Linda K Shipley <lindashipley@juno.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:03:16 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Linda K Shipley <lindashipley@juno.com> :



Hi. Bupleurum is an ingredient in many  chinese formulas. I think it can

help with women's hormone problems but I don't know exactly.

Linda S.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Bupleurum

From: "Sabra Way" <sabraway@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 07:45:15 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by sabra way <sabraway@hotmail.com> :



Oops didn't read far enough down my e-mail.



Bupleurum chinense (Latin) aka Buplerum



Key actions: protects liver, anti-inflammitory, tonic, antiviral

Chinese use: liver tonic, strengthens liver qi and tonic on the spleen and

stomach.

Western use: for a poorly functioning liver, indigestion, immune system

dissorders.



sabra



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Bupleurum

From: "Galerie Z.T." <jetnik@wish.net>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 03:39:15 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Galerie Z.T. <jetnik@wish.net> :



> Subject: Re: Bupleurum



"Sabra Way" <sabraway@hotmail.com> wrote:



> Chinese use: liver tonic, strengthens liver qi and tonic on the spleen and

> stomach.



In Chinese medicine the actions of (the root of) Bupleurum are 'moving' and

'regulating',

certainly not  'tonifying'.



Karen Vaughan already wrote some good information about the Chinese use of

Bupleurum, so I best refer to that message:



From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:05:31 -0500

X-Message-Number: 19



Herman Oving

jetnik@wish.net



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Bupleurum

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:30:03 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Galerie Z.T." <jetnik@wish.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

>Karen Vaughan already wrote some good information about the Chinese use of

>Bupleurum, so I best refer to that message:

>

>From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:05:31 -0500

>X-Message-Number: 19



That only works for the people on digest... 



Henriette



--

hetta@saunalahti.fi   Helsinki, Finland   http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Lupus

From: "John" <jfoster1@cableone.net>

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:17:46 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by jfoster <jfoster1@cableone.net> :



Just recieved a call from a gentlemen that said his daughter,(who is away at

college) is being tested for Lupus. The diagnosis at this time is believed

to be Lupus and Raynaud's phenomena. Has anyone had any success with

treating this. To let you know, we are in Mississippi and as far as a

chinese practitioner I would think they would be a very long distance. I

read some info showing that Wild Yam,Licorice, and Bupleurum could be

helpful but that is as far as I have gotten. Thought maybe some of you folks

out there may have had some experience with this. I told him I would try to

get some information for him and let them decide.

Thanks    John    jfoster1@cableone.net



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Colustrum. (not sure if it's OT or not.) 

From: "Dan & Cindy" <akalo@discoverynet.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:26:53 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Cindy Lee <akalo@discoverynet.com> :



My sister was telling me that she has started using a product she bought in

a health food store, it's a bovine colustrum, the same clear substance that

a nursing mother excretes when she starts nursing. I was wondering if anyone

else has used this, I have never heard of it before.



Cindy Lee



We are each of us angels with one wing. And we can only fly embracing each

other.

Luciano De Crescenzo



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Colustrum. (not sure if it's OT or not.) 

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:31:44 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



I've never heard of it. At least she'll be building antibodies for cow

diseases :}



Seriously, what is it supposed to do? Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Colustrum. (not sure if it's OT or not.) 

From: KR1989@aol.com

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:21:29 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by kr1989@aol.com :



I have never heard what benefit it could have for humans, but I live on a 

farm and the colustrum is the first milk that the calves get when their born 

to give them the antibodies they need from mom...it isn't clear though, but a 

very thick yellow/white substance!



Kathy Haag

Pure Pleasures

www.ppleasures.com

natural soaps, emu lotions, and bath essentials



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Colustrum. (not sure if it's OT or not.)

From: Rebecca Morrison <rhiannon@epix.net>

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:12:38 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by rebeckah morrison <rhiannon@epix.net> :



I have not only heard of, but have used, and swear by colostrum.

Although it can be a little expensive to buy, it really works wonders

for the immune system.

It does, in fact, build antibodies up (in humans!) and will create a

super-immune system after using it for a few weeks. It's also very good

to use as alternative medicine for sick pets (mammals only though, not

lizards or such). I used it on a sick kitten of mine over the summer and

it really worked well. Not only did she recover from her respiratory

infection, but she also grew very big and healthy.

The only real side-effects that colostrum will evoke are when first

taking the pills (they come in vitamin form) you have to start by taking

quite a few every day (like 3 or 4) and weed yourself down to one or two

to build your immune system. During this time the colostrum will purify

your system and you may experience draining sinuses, tearing at the

eyes, diarrhea, and so forth. It's not a big deal though, and it's worth

it in the long run.

The best brand to get is the "New Life" brand of colstrum (I've heard

others lack a lot of necessary nutrients and essential amino acids.)



*Beckah*



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Colustrum. (not sure if it's OT or not.) 

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:35:18 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/23/00 3:22:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, KR1989@aol.com 

writes:



<< I have never heard what benefit it could have for humans, but I live on a 

 farm and the colustrum is the first milk that the calves get when their born 

 to give them the antibodies they need from mom...it isn't clear though, but 

a 

 very thick yellow/white substance!

  >>



I ADD:  While this is not an herb topic, I can share with you that there is 

research within the alternative med community the theory that colostrom which 

comes before a mother's milk and sets up the immune system to resist disease 

seems to be an important part to the start of a baby's life.  The theory goes 

that in certain folks who were not breast fed as babies, don't have certain 

immunities to diseases especially allergies.  So those (I have heard it's 

only young folks and kids) folks who get a lot of allergies, breathing 

problems, and earaches can benefit from a single (one time only) dose of 

colostrom.



For those who are getting set to yell, this is in the working stages only and 

is being researched.  Yes it's available in health food stores, but you've 

got to have someone who works with the stuff tell you about it.  There is a 

practitioner in Virginia who uses it, and the store where I used to work in 

Silver Spring uses it (nci).  So far with marginal results.  Since it's a one 

time only deal it's going to be hard to see if this works right away.



In health -

Mary



P. S. This is NOT to stimulate a discussion on colostrom since it's not an 

herb.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Colustrum. (not sure if it's OT or not.) 

From: Aliceann Carlton <ayurveda@mint.net>

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 06:33:19 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by aliceann carlton <ayurveda@mint.net> :



At 12:26 AM 02/23/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>Sent to the herblist by Cindy Lee <akalo@discoverynet.com> :

>

>My sister was telling me that she has started using a product she bought in

>a health food store, it's a bovine colustrum.



Calves make good use of it for the first 72 hours of life.



Aliceann Carlton



>



LifeWorks -- Traditional Ayurvedic Medicine Homepage --

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5408



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Colustrum. (not sure if it's OT or not.)

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:24:33 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



I'd never heard of the stuff so I don't have one opinion or another but I do

find the idea interesting for a couple of reasons 1.  I still don't

understand how cow antibodies would effect human. If they are in capsule

form, why hasn't someone just marketed capsulated human colustrum (it might

be for all I know) to build the human immune system. 2. I know people that

won't use gelatin caps because either they are strict vegan and even if

they're not, they are concerned about mad cow disease.



By the way, what doe OT mean? Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Colustrum. (not sure if it's OT or not.)

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 05:58:06 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



I too can't keep up with all the acronyms, wondered what IIRC was, apparently

not related to Internet Relay Chat.  T in OT stands for topic, O stands for off,

though it could also stand for "on": ambiguous.



Anyway, I don't like the idea of capsules made with beef and pork gelatin,

considering that I have digestive trouble with mammal meat.  Further, I have

difficulty swallowing tablets and capsules, guess my evolution was not designed

for such unnatural shapes.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: ginkgo

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:37:50 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :



> Last week however, in my usual health food store, I spotted

> a much cheaper version of Ginkgo and bought a couple of bottles.

> Back home, comparing the label details, I'm confused:  both contain

> 'ginkgo biloba leaf' and I can see very little reason for the big

> difference in price:



There's one other reason for a difference in price as described by a

survey last year by ConsumerLabs. They purchased 30 leading brands 

of Ginkgo biloba and tested them to determine whether or not they 

possessed proper amounts of appropriate plant chemicals. Nearly 

one quarter of the thirty brands tested did not have the expected levels 

of chemical marker compounds for GBE, according to the report. All 

had less than adequate levels of one of one or more terpene lactones, 

and three also lacked adequate levels of one or more flavone glycosides. 

Even though they did not pass the testing, all bore labels claiming 

standardization for total flavone glycosides and most also indicated 

being standardized for total terpene lactones. 



Although they didn't list all the products they tested they did list the

ones that passed. To find out the remaining products, it'll cost $400

for the report. There must be a hundred or more they didn't even test, 

but the following list of passing products might give you some good

information. I suspect one of the problems with this survey is that

most credible herbal supplements with an herbalist on staff are

made by small companies which were not and never will be tested

by ConsumerLabs. The natural tendency for most of the general

public will be to gravitate toward the products that are "certified"

by a reputable third party. I suppose that's why ConsumerLabs

did the testing in the first place, but it doesn't help the average

consumer make an informed decision a specific herbal preperation.



1. Acuity Plus, Ginkgo Biloba, 40mg/caplet by Shaklee;

2. Centrum Herbals, Standardized Ginkgo Biloba Natural Dietary 

    Supplement, 60mg/capsule by Whitehall-Robins Healthcare

3. Country Life, Herbal Formula, Ginkgo Biloba Extract, 60 mg/capsule

    by Country Life

4. CVS, Premium Quality Herbs, Ginkgo Biloba Standardized Extract, 

    120 mg/caplet by CVS

5. Enzymatic Therapy, Ginkgo Biloba 24%, 40 mg/capsule, 

    by Enzymatic Therapy

6. Ginkoba, Mental Performance Dietary Supplement, Ginkgo Biloba 

    40 mg/tablet by Pharmaton Natural Health Products

7. Ginkgold, Ginkgo Biloba 60 mg/tablet by Nature's Way

8. Ginkai, Ginkgo Biloba 50 mg/tablet by Lichtwer Pharma

9. Ginkgo-go, Triple Strength Formula, Ginkgo Biloba 120 mg/caplet

    by Wakunaga Consumer Products

10.Ginkgo Biloba Plus with Aged Garlic Extract, Ginkgo Biloba 40 mg/

     capsule by Wakunaga of America

11.GNC, Natural Brand 50/mg tablet by GNC

12.MotherNature.com, Standardized Ginkgo Biloba Extract, 60 mg/

    capsule by MotherNature.com

13.Natrol, Ginkgo Biloba 60 mg/capsule by Natrol, Inc

14.Nature Made Herbs, Ginkgo Biloba 40 mg/softgel by

    Nature Made Nutritional Products

15.Nature's Bounty, Herbal Harvest, Ginkgo Biloba 30 mg/tablet

     by Nature's Bounty

16.Nature's Resource, Premium Herb, Extra Strength, Ginkgo Biloba 

    60 mg/capsule by N.R. Products

17.One-A-Day, Memory and Concentration, Ginkgo Biloba 60 mg/tablet

     by Bayer

18.Puritans' Pride, Inspired by Nature, Ginkgo Biloba Standardized 

    Extract, 60mg/tablet by NBTY

19.Quanterra, Mental Sharpness, Ginkgo Biloba 60 mg/tablet 

     by Warner-Lambert

20.Spring Valley, Ginkgo Biloba Dietary Supplement, Standardized 

     Extract, 40mg/tablet by Leiner/Distributed by Walmart

21.Sundown Herbals, Ginkgo Biloba, For Mental Alertness, 20mg/

     capsule by Sundown Vitamins

22.Thompson, Ginkgo Biloba 60 mg/capsule by Thompson Nutritional 

     Products

23.Ginkgo Biloba Standardized Extract, 60 mg/tablet by Walgreens

24.Your Life, Ginkgo Biloba Standardized Herbal Extract, 60 mg/caplet

     by Leiner Health Products Inc.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: ginkgo

From: Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:24:05 +0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk> :



>Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :

>

>> both contain 'ginkgo biloba leaf' (...) big difference in price:



Thank you for the list, which I've had to cut to keep within the 'not 

more than 15 lines' rule.

>

>There's one other reason for a difference in price as described by a

>survey last year by ConsumerLabs. They purchased 30 leading brands 

>of Ginkgo biloba and tested them to determine whether or not they 

>possessed proper amounts of appropriate plant chemicals. Nearly 

>one quarter of the thirty brands tested did not have the expected levels 

>of chemical marker compounds for GBE, according to the report.  All 

>had less than adequate levels of one of one or more terpene lactones, 

>and three also lacked adequate levels of one or more flavone glycosides. 

>Even though they did not pass the testing, all bore labels claiming 

>standardization for total flavone glycosides and most also indicated 

>being standardized for total terpene lactones.  Although they didn't list all 

>the products they tested they did list the ones that passed. 



Neither of the Ginkgoes I bought was on your list, yet they came

from what I consider to be a reputable (because USA?) source:



[a]

The original, expensive, version is 

"Carefully Manufactured by Holland & Barrett, Ltd (USA)

                                                for Holland & Barrett (UK)"

and claims to contain:

   'Ginkgo Biloba Standardized Extract'. 60mg, 240 tabs     

  (Standardised for a minimum of 24% Ginkgo Flavone Glycosides)

   

While [b]

The new, much cheaper version is

"Manufactured by Good 'N Natural Manufacturing Corp.(USA)

                                                for Holland & Barrett (UK)"

and claims:

     'Ginkgo Herbal Tablets each containing Ginkgo Leaf'

     Non-irridiated.  Certified Potency.



However neither is on your list.  I think I'll follow up the advice I've 

been receiving and order the dried leaf by post.  One effect I've 

noticed is that my cheeks and forehead feel very slightly flushed 

when I take it regularly.  I'll judge the amounts to take by that.



Regards,

-- 

Julia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: I need some help for a friend

From: joel <mango@gelrevision.nl>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:32:52 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by joel <mango@gelrevision.nl> :



Hi all,



A friend of mine asked me if i knew anything that would help him

with preventing migraines or if he has it what would help cure it,

i suggested to him that he'd try relaxing and wearing shades, but the

truth is i don't know anything about migraines. :)

Then i suddenly thought there MIGHT be herbs that help with this, and so

i promised

him to ask it on this list, where there are some professional herbalists

:)

so instead of trying to find the subscription and pass it on to him,

etcetera etcetera (which would be a lot of work and take much time) i

offered him to ask it for him.



So... :) Are there any herbs that help prevent migraines and are there

herbs that

soothe the migraines if they occur after all ?



It's a wild guess, but i'm taking a shot. :)



Thanks in advance all.



Joel



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: I need some help for a friend

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:27:01 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Energetically migraines can be expansive or compressing, and they require

opposite strategies (after first isolating allergens and triggers as Mary

mentioned.)  



There are migraines that  respond to feverfew and migraines that are

worse with feverfew.  The vasodilative migraines, where it feels like

your head will explode outwardly, with too much circulation, respond to

the energetically cooling feverfew or other cooling herbs.  The

vasoconstrictive migraines, where it feels like your head is in a vise,

respond to gingko, periwinkle and clematis.  



Women who suffer may need herbs that help normalize their hormonal cycle

as well.  That requires an indepth look at the menstrual cycle and an

ongoing relationship with an herbalist who specializes in hormonal

issues.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain." --Dolly Parton



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: I need some help for a friend

From: "Richard & Cyndi Ask" <ask@gtii.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:42:42 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Richard & Cyndi Ask <ask@gtii.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by joel <mango@gelrevision.nl> :

> 

> Hi all,

> 

> A friend of mine asked me if i knew anything that would help him

> with preventing migraines or if he has it what would help cure it,



Depends on the type of headache?



There are at lest 4 types that I am aware of:

Stress,overly constricted blood vessels,overly diluted blood vessels

and what in reality is a cluster headache.



Feverfew has gotten lots of press for migraines

but only works on one type and can take up to six months of daily use

to see results.



Richard



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: I need some help for a friend

From: Christa Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:37:03 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by cmaria@triton.net :



Hi Joel,

 The herb feverfew has been toutedd tohelp with migraines..do a search

on it.C-M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: I need some help for a friend

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:41:23 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/23/00 4:31:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

mango@gelrevision.nl writes:



<< So... :) Are there any herbs that help prevent migraines and are there

 herbs that

 soothe the migraines if they occur after all ?

 

 It's a wild guess, but i'm taking a shot. :)

 

 Thanks in advance all.

 

 Joel

  >>



Hi Joel -



There is a multi-approach to working with migraine patients.  First we look 

at diet and eliminate food triggers such as sugars, caffeine, MSG, alcohol,  

the nightshade vegetables, etc.



Then we look at lifestyle and do a little work in that area, such as sleeping 

patterns, proper air flow through the bedroom, etc.



Then we can use a daily dose of feverfew leaf as a preventative, and if a 

headache occurs we make up a tincture with white willow bark, passionflower, 

and feverfew.  Adding in hot or cold packs seems to help.



We also do massage using our own oils of clove and/or basil, and acupuncture 

points when the headache comes.  



We have found with a multi-disciplinary approach we can reduce both the 

severity and the frequency of these headaches.  But first it's important to 

know if your friend gets migraines, so he should have that checked out first.



In health -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH, N.D.

Professional Consultations/Online Classes

Botanical Pharmacy, Burtonsville, Md.

Catalogue thru:  Herbgrow30@aol.com

Specializing in Substance Abuse/Addictions Counseling

                                                ***************************

My comments are instructional only.

Please be sure to seek the care of a health professional.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: I need some help for a friend

From: Victoria Satta <victoria2@erols.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:20:10 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by victoria satta <victoria2@erols.com> :



At 05:41 PM 02/23/00 -0500, you wrote:

>Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :

>

>In a message dated 2/23/00 4:31:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

>mango@gelrevision.nl writes:



>Hi Joel -

>the nightshade vegetables, etc.



Duh, what are those?  :-)  



Victoria



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: I need some help for a friend

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:33:47 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/23/00 9:40:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

victoria2@erols.com writes:



<< Duh, what are those?  :-)  

  >>



The nightshade vegetables are tomatoes, white potatoes, peppers and 

eggplants.  But the avoidance list of foods for migraines goes on:



cheeses (aged) 

wines

nuts

processed meats 

hot dogs

some pickled foods

preservatives in some foods

MSG

caffeine

alcohol

chocolate



to name a few.  You should keep a food diary to see which foods are your 

particular triggers if you get migraines.



In health -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: I need some help for a friend

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:56:46 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Herbgrow30@aol.com wrote:



> The nightshade vegetables are tomatoes, white potatoes, peppers and

> eggplants.  But the avoidance list of foods for migraines goes on:

>

> cheeses (aged)

> wines

> nuts

> processed meats

> hot dogs

> some pickled foods

> preservatives in some foods

> MSG

> caffeine

> alcohol

> chocolate



Funny, that reads a lot like the avoidance list for those on MAO inhibitors.

Any connection?



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: I need some help for a friend

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:01:31 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/24/00 4:20:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, mterry@snet.net 

writes:



<< Funny, that reads a lot like the avoidance list for those on MAO 

inhibitors.

 Any connection?

 

 May >>



Hi May -



It's an avoidance list for migraines from "Migraine, The Complete Guide," by 

The American Council on Headache Education, and many of those things are 

harmful for migraines, and a concern if tyramines are to be avoided as in 

migraines, so yep, could be.



Warmly -

Mary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginkgo biloba

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 03:58:56 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Patricia,



How much (volume or mass) ginkgo leaves, and how much water do you use in making

tea?  Too little will not give you the benefits.



If standardized extracts are not up to what the label states, how is one

supposed to get any standardized extract, ginkgo or other, safely?   Same

question would apply to capsules and tablets, where an unscrupulous manufacturer

can easily cheat.



Thomas Mueller



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginkgo biloba

From: HarperP@aol.com

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:36:37 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by harperp@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/24/0 9:17:32 AM, tmueller@bluegrass.net writes:



<< Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>How much (volume or mass) ginkgo leaves, and how much water do you use 

>in making tea?  Too little will not give you the benefits.



Dear Thomas,

My basic "rule-of-thumb" is 1 oz herb to 1 pint water.  In practice, that's a 

couple handfuls of hand-crushed, dried herb--more if the herb is old or low 

quality, less if it's top quality, or pre-cut &sifted.  I am sure some people 

are more scientific about their measurements than I am.  My defense : ) is 

that I know the plants pretty well, and trust my intuition. 



>If standardized extracts are not up to what the label states, how is one



>supposed to get any standardized extract, ginkgo or other, safely?   Same



>question would apply to capsules and tablets, where an unscrupulous 

>manufacturer can easily cheat.



Well, Elliott Freeman (elfreem@aol) sent a list of tested Gingko extracts to 

the list, so that's a good source of info on Gingko products. (Thank you, 

Elliott!).  



But, in general, I think the most sane approach is to *accept* that nature is 

variable, and herbal products are not well suited to standardization. Optimal 

dosage can vary with each harvest. Although they are marketed in very similar 

ways to drugs, herbs are not precise chemical units like lab-made drugs; I 

don't think consumers really can get reliably standardized, western herbs, at 

this time.  



I hope this does not discourage you; if you'll pardon me for reading between 

the lines of your post a bit--I think you are asking "how can I get the 

proper dose from herbal products if there is no reliable standard?"  The 

answer lies in realizing herbs are not drugs, they are plants.  Cultivate a 

reliance upon the plant itself for information, rather than manufactured 

packaging. Follow general use guidelines, then trust nature, your knowledge, 

and your own body. 



Here are some ways to help assure that you get maximum effectiveness from the 

herbs you use: 

    When possible, instead of buying commercial products, try to buy or 

harvest herbs in their most unprocessed state--you may or may not get better 

quality, but you will learn to evaluate what you *do* have, and so you can 

adjust your usage accordingly.  

    Extend your network in the herb-business community so you know which 

brands are produced by herbalists who understand the plants they use.  (No 

one would buy drugs from a company that didn't understand chemistry, why 

would smart people buy herbs from companies that don't understand plants?)  

    And trust your intuition!



Patricia



>Thomas Mueller



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginkgo biloba

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 04:23:59 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



I know Blessed Herbs (http://www.blessedherbs.com) and Frontier carry dried

ginkgo leaf (nci).



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginkgo biloba

From: tmueller@bluegrass.net

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:46:01 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



How much herb to use depends on the strength of the herb and possible toxicity,

and if you mix with other herbs.  I am trying to determine what combines well

with ginkgo leaves.  1 oz herb to 1 pint water would be woefully excessive with

cramp bark, wormwood, or worse yet, Habanero pepper (ouch!).  I can often get a

feel for what is a strong enough dose.  I don't need to know the exact amount of

active components.  One defender of straight-and-narrow conventional western

medicine in newsgroup alt.support.asthma asks how you know exactly what you're

getting with herbs as opposed to pharmaceuticals, and I wonder how the desirable

dose of a pharmaceutical tends to be something neatly divisible by 100, such as

200 mg or 400 mg rather than 271 mg or 476 mg.



Thomas Mueller



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ginkgo biloba

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:42:35 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:46:01 -0500 (EST) tmueller@bluegrass.net writes:

>Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :

>

>How much herb to use depends on the strength of the herb and possible 

>toxicity...remember part of its action is it anticoagulant (

blood-thinning) capability, and if the conditions are ( right or wrong)

like my mother, a wow of a bloody nose for two 60 mg. tablets from a

medium quality gingko and other supplements company may be a terrible

surprise. Good luck, good health and good caution, Marcia

<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Migraines

From: "Sabra Way" <sabraway@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 07:33:17 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by sabra way <sabraway@hotmail.com> :



There is one herb that is well known to help many with migraines. Itdoes not

help all but it is worth a try . Its called Tanacetum parthenium (Latin) or

Feverfew. You can take fresh leaves (1-2 lrg or 3-2 small) or in capsule

50-100mg/day. If you buy bottled tablets follow the instructions on the

bottle. You can also buy it in Tincture, use 5-10 drops three times a day.

Do not use if pregnant, on blood thinning medication (aspirin, warfarin

etc), may cause stomach upset . Rarely there can be allergic effects:mouth

ulcer, sore tongue and skin rash.

It should also be mentioned that there are several foods that can aggravate

migraines:chocolate, cheese, red wine, MSG, and alcohol. As well, emotional

stress, lack of sleep and weather changes may cause an attack.

Check out the alternative health care  section at the book store. I know

there are books out there but i do not know the titles.



Sabra



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Durian

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:55:10 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



Dear Patricia,

We were host family to student nurses from Maylasia for a number of

years, and one of our 'daughters' brought us back a durian fruit.



> How did you like the Durian fruit? I read a Smithsonian (I think)

article

> about it, but have never actually seen it.

>



So long as you didn't smell it - it was OK.  You held your breath, you

took a bite - you ate it - delicious! - and then you breathed again.

If you drew in the slightest whisker of air as you ate - you got that

unforgettable smell -WOW!  Worse than strong valerian - I stored mine

in an outside shed in a box on its own and it could still cause a

hasty retreat!

Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Rosemary Oil & Thinning Hair?

From: "Dan & Cindy" <akalo@discoverynet.com>

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:59:12 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Cindy Lee <akalo@discoverynet.com> :



I did some reading, and came across something about rosemary oil rubbed

intot he scalp to help hair growth.



has anyone tried this?

I also read that sage oil helps, and maybe even  combine the two but my

sister tells me not to let sage obsorb through the skin. how can sage harm

me?  Is this the same sage in my food pantry?



thanks



Cindy Lee



We are each of us angels with one wing. And we can only fly embracing each

other.

Luciano De Crescenzo



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Rosemary Oil & Thinning Hair?

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:37:19 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:59:12 -0600 "Dan & Cindy" <akalo@discoverynet.com>

writes:

>Sent to the herblist by Cindy Lee <akalo@discoverynet.com> :

>...rosemary oil rubbed into the scalp to help hair growth....sister

tells me not to let sage absorb through the skin. how can sage >harm me? 

Is this the same sage in my food pantry?

(multiplied by a very large factor, yes, and the 1/4% harmful material

possibly in the culinary leaf/powder usually would be very well-handled

by the body, and someone in your great-grandchildren's generation may

discover a small protective factor against ... who knows what.  However,

1/4% of the oil would be distilled or expressed or enfleuraged from maybe

half a truckload of sage leaves, and the amount and concentration would

be phenomenal compared to the leaf.

A compromise might be to take a cheap conditioner or creme rinse and

drizzle some of your sage oil into it  and use that for your scalp

massage, minimizing any possibilities of harm. Leave it on under a shower

cap and or towel turban  until you are ready to take your shower.  Keep

looking in herbals and essential oil books for a list of the extractives

and components. I have requested a new source, because I have recently

found some interesting components for me in valerian in something I found

on the net.  Remember, essential oils, all of them, are stronger than you

think. According to one source, the only safe essential oil to use "neat"

(uncut) on the skin is lavender, but I have more questions than answers. 

Good luck, good health and good caution to you and yours,

Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: growth hormone

From: "greekads.com" <mnikol@otenet.gr>

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:18:30 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Mike Nichols <mnikol@otenet.gr> :



Hello.

I would like to know  if there are any herbs that promote growth hormone

release in humans.

Thanks,

Mike Nichols



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: growth hormone

From: "Judith Thamm" <galingale@chariot.net.au>

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:32:18 +1030

--------

Sent to the herblist by Judith Thamm <galingale@chariot.net.au> :



> Hello.

> I would like to know  if there are any herbs that promote growth

hormone

> release in humans.

Dear Mike,

Not a herb.  All you need is homogenised milk - this contains broken

particles [due to homogenisation] of the IGF-1 identical growth

hormone as there is in the human body.  The broken particles penetrate

the blood more easily which allow this growth factor to spread more

readily around the body.

Judith.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: hops and mugwort not as bad

From: thimbleberry@juno.com

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:20:19 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by t b <thimbleberry@juno.com> :



A few days ago "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com> wrote:



> > Mugwort and hops aren't in the same league at all.



> Henriette, I respectfully disagree. Or maybe you missed what

> analogy I was trying to make.



> Hops and mugwort can both be smoked and lead to intoxication.

> That they are not abused to the same degree that marijuana is

> puzzles me, but I do know that the usage of both is up.



The effects of hops and mugwort, by all accounts, are milder than of

mj.  Neither causes what most would consider "intoxication".



Hops does produce a spaced out state where one's motivation is

affected.  And the plant does create a longing to be smoked again. 

I can see how its stronger cousin (mj) can be bad news.



But mugwort gives a very *wholesome* serene feeling, where one's

energy is more balanced, and one can be more focused and productive.

The sub-euphoric state I've described before here from uising larger

amounts of it is hard to attain, but is not detrimental in any way



Thimbleberry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Durian - was Ginko Biloba

From: Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:33:32 +0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk> :



Dear Patricia,



Thanks for the URLs and other info.  I've been told I mustn't quote

more than 15 lines so I'm trying to keep this short.

>

>On another note, your valerian comments were hilarious!  Actually, the fresh 

>root (also available from Pacific Botanicals), and fresh root tincture (to 

>some extent) smells and tastes a *whole lot* better! (I get icky goosebumps 

>just thinking about dried valerian tea. . . )



It's the sort of experience that sticks in the memory :-)  My attempts to

test  what I was reading about herbs were handicapped by the fact

that my husband refused to have anything to do with my

experiments and my son was far too young, so there was only me:  I

made up the Valerian tea, drank it and had a wonderful sleep.

However, I bought no more of it.  Didn't have the nerve to face the

domestic consequences.

>

>How did you like the Durian fruit? I read a Smithsonian (I think) article 

>about it, but have never actually seen it.



The first thing that strikes you about durian is the unpleasant smell.

Does the Horse Chestnut grow in California?  The durian is a spiky

green fruit, containing nuts, like the chestnut, but the durian is the size

and  shape of a small(ish) rugby ball.  When it's opened up there is

a surprising amount of pith and the large hard nuts are surrounded

by soft flesh.  That's the only part that's edible; very little considering

the overall size of the fruit.   The flesh was a pinky-yellow colour and

very soft.  I was reminded of a fledgling bird that had fallen out of the

nest :-(  The thought of eating that was on a par with frog's legs and

snails, and I haven't managed either of those:  I had to _make_

myself taste it; it was delicious.  I ate the lot.  



The _really_ strange_ thing was that when durian was next in

season I found the smell attractive, while my husband continued to

find it revolting.  I've often wondered about that.  I didn't have the

nerve, even then, to re-order it, although I would have liked to.

-- 

Julia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Tobacco-neurolgical illness

From: HarperP@aol.com

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:13:13 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by harperp@aol.com :



I just read an AP article summarizing (but not documenting) research showing 

that nicotine patches can significantly improve verbal and communication 

skills of patients with Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's and Tourette's 

Syndrome.  I had never heard this, though I understand it is not a new 

discovery.



My question is: Do modern herbalists ever use tobacco for neurological 

illnesses? How is it used (externally or smoked)?  What effects have been 

noted?  Has anyone used wild tobacco?



I found three references, although none of my contemporary literature 

mentioned it. 

Millspaugh's _American Medicinal Plants_  lists its use, externally, for 

"spasma glottidis,"  which sounded promising.  



Grieve's _Modern Herbal_ mentions using it, again externally, in combination 

with belladonna or stramonium (How's that for a witches brew!) for "painful 

tremors and spasmodic affections." 



The1882 _Pharmacopeia of the United States_ indicates the drug standard was 

whole, commercially dried leaves.



I appreciate any information.  Thanks!



Patricia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Tobacco-neurolgical illness

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:53:21 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



HarperP@aol.com wrote:



> I just read an AP article summarizing (but not documenting) research showing

> that nicotine patches can significantly improve verbal and communication

> skills of patients with Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's and Tourette's

> Syndrome.  I had never heard this, though I understand it is not a new

> discovery.



I have a 19-year-old son with Tourette Syndrome, ADHD, and PDD, an autistic

spectrum disorder.  I recently attended a seminar on the use of neurofeedback

techniques for children with ADHD, and the neuropsychologist asked if anyone

knew the "emergency" home treatment for an out-of-control ADHD child.  Some of

us knew it was caffeine.  I asked him if he had heard of nicotine being used for

Tourette Syndrome or any other neurological disorder, and he replied that he had

not, and could not imagine how or why it would work for TS.  Not sure myself,

but I know my son's been self-medicating with it for years.



By the way, I'm not sure why anyone put TS in the same category as Parkinson's.

My son communicates spectacularly well, due in part to the excess levels of

brain dopamine that are characteristic of his disorder.  Parkinson's, as you may

recall from Oliver Sacks' book "Awakenings" (or the movie based on it), is a

disorder characterized by brain dopamine "deficiency".



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Tobacco-neurolgical illness

From: HarperP@aol.com

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:35:07 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by harperp@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/27/0 6:25:27 AM, mterry@snet.net writes:



<< By the way, I'm not sure why anyone put TS in the same category as 

Parkinson's.



The only clue they gave in answer to your question is: 



". . .nicotine can relieve symptoms by changing the way [the] brain uses 

message-carrying chemicals called neurotransmitters. . . ." The article 

refered to separate research projects on children with Tourette's, and elders 

with Parkinson's.  The benefits for Tourette sufferers were specifically 

given as:  ". . . did better and were able to control their symptoms with 

lower than usual doses of Haldol."  Not  much useful data, I know.



Patricia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Olive leaf

From: "Jeni St. Julien" <j_iris@juno.com>

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:49:01 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by jennifer kiliszewski <j_iris@juno.com> :



Has anyone heard of Olive Leaf being used in a similar way to Echinacea? 

A fellow nurse and herbal student friend of mine had used it this winter

to successfully keep her self and her family well.

Jenny Iris



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Olive leaf

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 03:41:57 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Actually I think preventative use of echinacea, except in the case of

someone who is depleted, is not a proper use of the herb.  Echinacea

should be reserved to  fight infections.  



Astragalus in soups, garlic in cooking, warm foods and a well-balanced

diet low in refined carbos is a better preventative approach.  



Olive leaf contains triterpenoids, secoiridoid glycosides, flavonoids,

oleuropein, elenolic acid and calcium elonate and low levels of

alkaloids.  Olive leaf is used by traditional herbalists for high blood

pressure, but new research suggests applications for antiviral purposes

and it also appears to enhance membrane receptivity to insulin.  Hanbury

wrote "On the febrifuge properties of the olive" in an 1854 article in

the Pharmacy Journal, but most research seems to be quite recent (since

1969).  Possibly quite useful, but the usual caveats about nontraditional

uses apply.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"To give pleasure to a single heart, by a single act, is better than a

thousand heads bowing in prayer."    M. Ghandi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Olive leaf

From: Tsadi@aol.com

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 07:40:06 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by tsadi@aol.com :



In a message dated 2/27/2000 1:25:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

j_iris@juno.com writes:



<< Has anyone heard of Olive Leaf being used in a similar way to Echinacea? 

 A fellow nurse and herbal student friend of mine had used it this winter

 to successfully keep her self and her family well.

 Jenny Iris >>



i've only heard it used to help people with candida, although i don't know 

the specifics on it.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Olive leaf

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:58:02 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Sun, 27 Feb 2000 07:40:06 EST Tsadi@aol.com writes:

>Sent to the herblist by tsadi@aol.com :

>

>In a message dated 2/27/2000 1:25:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

>j_iris@juno.com writes: Has anyone heard of Olive Leaf being used in a

similar way to Echinacea?  

Is it better than oregano capsules with oil and leaf?

Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: olive leaf

From: Bonnie <chandleb@bellsouth.net>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 10:16:11 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by chandleb@bellsouth.net :



Hi,

Here is a site that explains about olive leaf.  I have been using it for

about 2 months. I hope this information is helpful.

Bonnie



www.eastparkresearch.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Illness divisible by ten, was Re: Ginkgo biloba

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:04:06 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



> One defender of straight-and-narrow conventional western

> medicine in newsgroup alt.support.asthma asks how you know exactly

> what you're getting with herbs as opposed to pharmaceuticals, and I

> wonder how the desirable dose of a pharmaceutical tends to be

> something neatly divisible by 100, such as 200 mg or 400 mg rather

> than 271 mg or 476 mg.



A perfect point. 



Because they focus on chemicals, they miss the plants by a mile. If you

have lost the battle (you may still win the war) of protecting your

broadest worldview, then you are stuck believing that the only thing that

CAN affect you is a chemical----even though you yourself are not a

'predominance' of chemicals.



Walk into a drugstore and ask them for 100 mg. of 'what I am.' That should

be good for a laugh.



Even if you only put a picture of a plant on your wall, and 'pray' to it,

it will heal you if it is in its nature and desire to do so---even without

a 'dose.' If your 'dead' grandmother comes to you in a dream, and tells

you she loves you, you wake up and your cancer has declined by a

significant amount. We are living beings with feelings; and so are plants.

Those feelings are not 'placebo.' They are part of our living!!!  Is that

an illusion?



Sit under a gingko in a respectful mind, and fall asleep. In your dream

you will get the best 'gingko tea' you ever had. 



Plants share our life----pharmaceuticals are MORE dead than we will ever

be. 



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Durian - medlar

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:01 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:33:32 +0000 Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk>

writes:

>Sent to the herblist by Julia <JPH@mistylaw.demon.co.uk> :

>Dear Patricia,

How did you like the Durian fruit? ... about durian is the unpleasant

smell.

Does the Horse Chestnut grow in California?  The durian is a spiky green

fruit, containing nuts, like the chestnut, but the durian is the size and

 shape of a small(ish) rugby ball.  One wonders if the "stinking medlar"

mentioned in Shakespeare is related and what are the virtues. 

Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Durian - medlar

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:50:41 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Medlar, known as "nespole" in Italian, is a quite small (apricot-sized)

nectarine-like fruit with a beautiful smooth nut in the center.  It is

nothing like durian which resembles a heavily spiked basketball (or cross

between a basketball and a spiny pufferfish)..



The medlar fruit doesn't stink, but the tree might.



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"To give pleasure to a single heart, by a single act, is better than a

thousand heads bowing in prayer."    M. Ghandi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Addiction -- OT? (was: Medical marijuana)

From: Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:01:40 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com> :



Coming out of lurk mode for a moment  -- 



I wanted to address some of the ancillary  ideas and assumptions I've seen

made during the Medical Marijuana thread. It might be OT, but since many

people on this list are professional healthcare providers, I felt it

appropriate to bring a different perspective in on the subject of addiction

-- and hope not to incur anyone's wrath by doing so.



The following comment just happens to be the most recent of those which made

me wince (no offense intended to either writer), which I'll use as a jumping

off point for the comments I want to make:



>  The other writer was

>correct, it's just like popping a beer to relax after a hard day's work. 



That's said AS IF using either substance for this purpose is a thoroughly

acceptable, safe, normal and healthy practice. It isn't. (Well it could be

the *norm* statistically speaking, but not in terms of healthy behavior.)

It's addictive behavior, even if no actual addiction ever ensues. Using

*mood altering* substances or processes is dangerous (playing with fire) and

always a denial of Self. It also does further damage to the aura.



I speak as someone who went through a too lengthy period of alcohol abuse,

and who has done quite a bit of study in the field of addiction, recovery,

dysfunctional people and behaviors (and society), etc. Not an expert by any

means, but a rather well-informed lay persion.



> I

>know many people, active in their communities, 40's, 50's, 60 years old, solid

>citizens, etc. who use to help them cope with whatever crap life is throwing at

>them. 



I'm reminded of a news item I saw a few years ago about how to handle stress

(especially job-related). In a sudden epiphany I realized: Why should we

HAVE to develop ways to COPE with excessive stress? We should strive to

eliminate it instead.  Just Say No. The level of stress most people

experience in mind-numbing, dis-spiriting jobs is unhealthy, exploitative

and simply wrong and THAT'S what needs to be changed, not our perfectly

normal and healthy reaction to too much stress. (And yes, not all stress is

bad, and yes, it's not possible or even desirable to eliminate all stress --

but you get my point.) 



Emotionally and spiritually healthy people (adults and teens and even

younger children) don't numb or *medicate* themselves against the vagaries

of everyday life, they have no need to. Instead they actually DEAL with

their emotions and find other ways to relax. If someone comes home from work

and *needs* something to help them cope with *whatever crap life is throwing

at them,* that's not coping at all. That's copping out. As a longterm

strategy, it's a losing (loser's) strategy -- and as I said, potentially

dangerous. As a short term strategy, it's at best a delaying tactic --

nothing is getting done to figure out a way to correct the underlying problems.



> Mood altering drugs are as old as man (and woman) -kind. 



Which doesn't make their use for the purposes suggested either right or

healthy. (I support the sacramental use of mood altering sacred herbs, even

if I've never had the pleasure myself. <g>)



When I was getting away from drinking, I found myself every now and then

wanting a glass of wine. But what I really wanted was the IDEA of wine --

relaxation, that certain mellowness, etc. I didn't really need wine to

achieve the desired states (no one does) -- I was capable of (and

responsible for) doing it myself.  Most people who drink, especially those

who drink to excess, have a *reason* to drink and ever since I've gotten

well clear of it myself, I haven't been able to figure out what is a GOOD or

appropriate or healthy reason to drink. 



It's a very complex subject, far too complex and involved to cover in one

post, but  the cause of ALL frequent or addictive use of mood-altering

substances or processes (e.g., gambling, sex, spending/hoarding/debting) is

to cover up significant underlying emotional pain -- almost always childhood

pain carried over and continued into adulthood.



Children and teens who are using and abusing do so because they too are in

great pain and feel the need to numb themselves against it. This means that

all our heroic measures to try to eliminate causes of teen addiction -- or

any addiction (e.g.,  making cigarettes illegal for those under 18, or even

our whole misguided War on Drugs) will never totally cure the problem since

anyone prone to substance abuse or addiction will simply find substitutes.

Some have even turned to religion in an addcitive way. (There's a

fascinating book on that too!)  Just about anything can be used addictively.



Anyway, addiction or substance abuse has a lot less to do with a

self-centered, narcissistic desire to *feel good* (as one poster suggested)

than a DESPERATE attempt to not feel quite so devastatingly,

heartbreakingly, crushingly bad.



There's a saying in 12-Step Programs: Alcoholics and addicts are sick, not

bad. You can buy the contention that addiction is a *disease* or not (It is

-- a disease of the Spirit) but at least please don't imagine that addiction

and even most substance abuse are merely matters of self-control, character,

will power, etc. If that were the case, there'd be far fewer alcoholics and

addicts.



We live in an addictive society. Anne Wilson Schaefe has written brilliantly

on this subject. It's a society which actually encourages and enables a good

many addictions (workaholism is right up there at the top, and alcoholism

not far behind). But more importantly, it's a society that causes the kind

of emotional and spiritual wounding (through its members starting with our

parents, themselves emotionally and spiritually wounded). Not everyone falls

prey to addiction (that is, has an addictive personality), of course, but

those who do deserve our compassion, not our judgment. 



None of this is to say that alcohol should NEVER be used for the purpose of

*relaxing,* though that would be IMO a *medicinal* use (so to speak), nor

meant to take a position one way or the other on marijuana, nor to suggest

that a nice cup of chamomile tea is inappropriate. :-) Proabably the

herbalists on the list could explain it better, but it seems to me chamomile

(and other appropriate herbs) help SUPPORT the physical / mental / spiritual

energy system in a positive and proactive way, rahter than dampen or numb it.  



Since this post must surely be OT, if anyone wants to pursue the subject,

feel free to contact me privately.



Regards,



Eloriel



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Addiction -- OT? (was: Medical marijuana)

From: Michael Acord <mpacord@concentric.net>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:52:00 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by mpacord@concentric.net :



Eloriel wrote:



> Sent to the herblist by Eloriel <eloriel@mindspring.com> :

>

> Coming out of lurk mode for a moment  --

>

> I wanted to address some of the ancillary  ideas and assumptions I've seen

> made during the Medical Marijuana thread. It might be OT, but since many

> people on this list are professional healthcare providers, I felt it

> appropriate to bring a different perspective in on the subject of addiction

> -- and hope not to incur anyone's wrath by doing so.



MUCH SNIPPAGE...



    In general, I agree with you that there are many people with addiction

potentials and opportunities, who do, for whatever combination of reasons, become

physiologically dependent on one substance or another. That means that they

experience unpleasant side effects on withdrawal, and that is one commonly-accepted

definition of adddiction.

    Now, if you want to talk about the reasons for addiction, there ARE many who use

(and abuse) any one of a number of "drugs," both natural and synthetic, to avoid

dealing with emotional problems.  Those individuals DO deserve compassion and help,

rather than condemnation, and support in their attempts to regain control of their

lives.  They should probably not be risking their lives by taking most illicit

drugs, and most especially, not cocaine and heroin, which are pure extracts of two

ancient plants, used, however, medically for millenia.  But I do not agree that

emotional tumult is the major motivation for everyone who chooses to use

mind-altering substances.

    Intentional intoxication is part of the animal world as well as the human, as

demonstrated in the recent book "Intoxication,"  (sorry, I can't remember the

author, but he's a UCLA psychopharmacologist), and it exists in all of the

warm-blooded beasts, both furry and flying. It would thus appear that there might be

more dominant issues than emotional coping skills when one is discussing drug use. I

suppose a point could be made that animals are trying to escape from emotional

turmoil, but that gets pretty conjectural.

    Here, we seem to be discussing the use of a natural plant, marijuana (Cannabis),

rather than its synthetic or purified compounds, and there is much history (say,

5000 years, give or take a few centuries) to suggest that the plant has several

things going for it.  Such as its unparalleled safety (more deaths from Viagra,

folks), its multiplicity of medicinal and industrial uses, ease of cultivation, and

ecological friendliness . In one  variety, its abilities to induce somnolence, give

ease from physical pain and nausea, and induce mild euphoria, are highly valued. It

is precisely because Cannabis has a number of uses (and a balance of chemical

compounds) that it has been prized for generations, and is  probably the best reason

for its presence in a rational society.

    That's not to say that there are no risks involved, but General Barry

McCaffrey's report from the National Academy of Sciences concluded that the risks

were well within the limits of safety we have for existing medications. There are a

few reports beginning to appear which try to establish a relationship between the

plant in any form and a variety of physical ills. The data is VERY preliminary, but

there ARE health considerations. One has the sense that sucking smoke into your body

is probably not the most healthful way to administer a medicinal plant extract, but

other routes of administration do exist.

    I don't think much argument can be made for marijuana being the cause of many

social ills, though the money to be made in circumventing the draconian drug laws

doesn't help crime statistics.

    So I find it appalling that  the Drug Czar recently seized a shipment of sterile

hemp seeds, because the "zero tolerance" policy would not allow a THC level beyond

the theoretical disappearing point. The industrial use of hemp, let alone the

medicinal use of Cannabis, seems doomed, at least until reason breaks out in

Washington.  It seems to me we should be allowed to use the herb in whatever way

MAKES SENSE.  And I contend that the current approach makes NONE.

    My apologies for preaching, but some things just piss me off.

    Mike Acord, MD



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: R: Olive leaf

From: "marco valussi" <marcobabi@libero.it>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:47:41 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Marco Valussi <marcobabi@libero.it> :



This topic was discussed on another list, so I'm just copying my old

contribution.



<<The leaf of Olea europea has been used by herbalists both in acqueous

preparations and as alcoholic extracts.  The main active principles are

oleoeuropein, bitter principles, tannins, essential oil, some resins, few

organic acids and saponins.  The actions of the extracts are thought to

be:ipotensive (peripheral circulation); diuretic; hypoglycemic and

febrifuge, but in my personal experience the vasodilatory/hypotensive is the

more certain one.  It is not a very potent herb, but an interesting addition

to other herbs in a recipe, in particular I use it for asthma attacks in

hypertensive individuals to counteract possible systemic effects of more

potent herbs like Ephedra, and as an antioxidant in any stressful state

Traditionally the indications for its use are:

Hypertension and related symptoms

Hyperuricemia

Diabetes

Arteriosclerosis

You can prepare it as a 5% infusion (5 gr dried leaf to 100 ml water), brew

it for 10 min and drink 3 cups per day

You can prepare a tincture of it.  1:5 in 70 % alcohol.  5 ml tds

Lately an alcoholic extract of the leaf, containing mainly oleoeuropein and

calcium enolate (well known antioxidants (1)) has been marketed in the USA

as Eden, and has been used in association with naltrexone and DNCB ad an

adjuvant in the treatment of AIDS and other degenerative and

non-degenerative pathologies.  There has been an article in Positive Health

News 1996 (2) reporting 7 cases supporting the antiviral action of the

extract, documented by the PCR values.  To date, apart for the evident

antioxidant action, no clinical study or experimental data is availble on

this preparation.

There isn't any data on immune

system enhancement (apart from the general antioxidant effect)

As for the best preparation, wine or vinegar seems fine, you need a certain

amount of water to extract the flavonoids (rutin, hesperidine).  The

preparation I use is the integral suspension of fresh plant (SIPF), which

contains everything.



(1)  Visioli, F. e Galli, C.  (1994)  'Oleoeuropein protects Low Density

Lipoprotein from oxidation'.  Life Sciences, vol. 55: 1965-1971.

(2) Positive Health News  (1996) 'An extract from Olive leaves, containing

natural 'protease inhibitors', used in combination with Naltrexone, DNCB and

the whole lemon/olive oil drink reduced HIV viral load from 58000 to

non-detectable levels in two weeks (PCR)'  Positive Health News, vol.

11:1-29.>>



Hope this is useful.



Marco Valussi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: neem oil

From: "H.A.C. Le Poole" <lepoole@indi.nl>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:14:46 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by h.a.c. le poole <lepoole@indi.nl> :



On 13/2/00 Marcia asked if anyone could help her find a source for neem oil.

It took me a while to verify this, but i have  now find a reliable source of

good quality neem oil (nci). I f you havn't found it yet please contact me

directly on my email address, unless the list is interested as well in which

case i am pleased to give more info on this product. I am afraid that the

unpleasant smell is something you have to live with  just as with tea tree

oil, but there are qualities which do smell less aggressive.

Rik Le Poole



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Poor circulation/ leg pain

From: OakCamp@aol.com

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:01:38 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by oakcamp@aol.com :



Hi all, 

I saw my mom yesterday and she chose not to walk any more than she had to 

because of pain in both legs. She has seen her allo dr who told her that it 

was poor circulation in her legs (concentrated around her ankles) and that 

there was nothing that could be done about it. I'm hoping this great list can 

help come up with something for her. 

She is 78, 5'4, 140 lb., usually very active.  Has had her legs stripped of 

varicose veins twice in her life.  Has always had lots of blue surface 

venation around both ankles. Currently she takes Synthroid for hypothyroidism 

and Lotensin for HBP (138/100), and is trying Advil to alleviate her pain 

(but it doesn't seem to be doing anything for her).  She walks slowly and 

measuredly because of the pain (not what I'm used to seeing) and says the 

pain is deep in her legs.  This came on suddenly about a week ago.  Any 

thoughts?? I asked about thrombosis but she said the dr checked her for 

everything and told her it's poor circulation.

Thanks!



Barbara Birkinbine

Oak Camp Herb Farm, OCIA cert

OakCamp@aol.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Poor circulation/ leg pain

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:09:25 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:01:38 EST OakCamp@aol.com writes:

>Sent to the herblist by oakcamp@aol.com :

 ...allo dr who told her that it was poor circulation in her legs

(concentrated around her ankles) and 

>that there was nothing that could be done about it.  Evening primrose

oil  and vitamin E might be useful starters.  Bilberry is supposed to be

good for veins.  Ginger is antioxidant and anti-inflammatory as well as

good for balance. Long term use needed before results are

noticeable.Hopefully you will get some better info from the list. Marcia

<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Poor circulation/ leg pain

From: "H.A.C. Le Poole" <lepoole@indi.nl>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:07:58 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by h.a.c. le poole <lepoole@indi.nl> :

> Sent to the herblist by oakcamp@aol.com :

> Hi all,

> I saw my mom yesterday and she chose not to walk any more than she had to

> because of pain in both legs. She has seen her allo dr who told her that it

> was poor circulation in her legs (concentrated around her ankles) and that

> there was nothing that could be done about it. I'm hoping this great list can

> help come up with something for her.



Any herb that has a high content of flavonoids should help. Bilberry is a

good choice, gingko as well, onions perhaps the best, but given the

acuteness of the problem and the quantities of fruits, leaves etc you need

eat to get an effect, she may be better off to buy capsules containing appr.

500mg rutin  and/or quercetin, which are widely prescribed for these

conditions.



Rik Le Poole



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Poor circulation/ leg pain

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:25:50 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/28/2000 9:02:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

OakCamp@aol.com writes:



<< This came on suddenly about a week ago.  Any 

 thoughts?? I asked about thrombosis but she said the dr checked her for 

 everything and told her it's poor circulation. >>



Barbara,



Time to load the kitchen sink into the cannon~!!  Sounds to me very much like 

something that could become worse if not dealt with in relatively shrot 

order.  First, understand that the Lotensin is an ACE inhibitor that has a 

bunch of cautions relative to "renal" or "hepatic" function.  and though you 

didn't mention it, maybe because your mom didn't mention it to you, she is 

probably taking a prep like hydrochlorothiazide or HCT based diuretic.  The 

typical allopathic approach to high blood pressure is to stifle the "natural" 

function of organs like the heart with ACE inhibitors, beta blockers or 

calcium channel blockers and then to flush fluids and nutrients from the body 

with a strong diuretic.  Less fluid = lower BP.    Typicaly, at some point, 

diuretics eliminate enough of the basic nutrients to really have someone 

(particularly the elderly) "appear" to be rapidly deteriorating, when it is 

just that their already diminished (because of age) nutirent assimilation 

process that is being totally comprimised by the diuretic drug that is 

literally stripping nutrients ESSENTIAL to proper body function out and not 

replacing it with anything.  On top of that there are any number of studies 

that say quite conclusively that while you may not die from a heart related 

disorder while taking the "conventional" heart meds, the incidence of 

renal/hepatic failure and incidence of mortality resulting from heart meds is 

something on the order of 3-4 times that of those not on the meds.  The 

"blockers" be they ACE, Beta, or calcium channel affect the adrenal system as 

well, and some in ways that are very serious.



My suggested approach would be on a number of levels.  First - go to a GOOD 

accupuncturist right away - to open the channels in your Mom's legs and get 

stuff flowing -  Second, if she is taking a diuretic, stop that cold -  and 

replace it with dandelion leaf.   - obviously talk to the MD and tell him 

what you are doing.  Third, get some high quality Kloss Liniment and rub it 

on (into) your mom's legs from just above the knees to the end of her toes 5 

or six times a day (she'll smell a bit but the stuff works,  Fourth,  have 

her take some Cayenne (500 mg 3X/day) for a while to increase circulation and 

a  month or two of bilberry (fruit) tincture  at 60 drops 4X/day.  Fifth, I 

would strongly suggest at least 60 days of a good liver detox tea (herbalist 

(you) prepared), or Essiac to flush out al of the crud in her liver from 

"natural" as well as fromt he meds she has been taking.  Sixth, I would be 

supplementing with some cal/mag (citrate) because her pain may be a simple 

lack of same on a cellular level,  and fianlly I would have her start to take 

100-120 mg of Co Q-10 per day in regualr form or a minimum of 60 mg of the 

new Q-Gel  Co-Q which is about 3 or 4 times as bio available as the capsules. 

 



That is pretty much everything I would suggest you put into the sink before 

loading the cannon and all is, IMHO, warranted.  



Since you are not a neophyte at alternative protocols, talk to the doctor and 

see how receptive he/she is to "going alternative" with your Mom's condition. 

 It is always best, particularly with the elderly, to get the doctor to 

support what you a re atempting to accomplish.  Once you have he/she on 

board,  



Best of Luck

peter



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: tobacco/nicotine-related health benefit???

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:00:09 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :



>> I just read an AP article summarizing (but not documenting) research 

showing

>> that nicotine patches can significantly improve verbal and communication

>> skills of patients with Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's and Tourette's

>> Syndrome.  I had never heard this, though I understand it is not a new

>> discovery.

  

>  I have a 19-year-old son with Tourette Syndrome, ADHD, and PDD, an autistic

>  spectrum disorder.  I recently attended a seminar on the use of 

neurofeedback

>  techniques for children with ADHD, and the neuropsychologist asked if 

anyone

>  knew the "emergency" home treatment for an out-of-control ADHD child. Some 

> of

>  us knew it was caffeine.  I asked him if he had heard of nicotine being 

used for

>  Tourette Syndrome or any other neurological disorder, and he replied that 

he had

>  not, and could not imagine how or why it would work for TS.  Not sure 

myself,

>  but I know my son's been self-medicating with it for years.



While we're on the subject of nicotine in tobacco, listers might be interested

in knowing there have been observations that nonsmokers with ulcerative

colitis have gone into remission when they start to smoke again [1]. I 

guess tobacco does have some health benefit for a few select groups

of people. Nicotine patch, however, is a better choice. Sandborn evaluated 

the effects of transdermal nicotine at the highest tolerable dose (11mg/day 

for 1 week then up to 22mg/day for 3 weeks) in a group of patients with 

mild to moderately active ulcerative colitis. Patients in the study continued 

to receive 5-aminosalicylate compounds, oral corticosteroids, or both. After 

4 weeks of treatment, 12 of 31 (39%) of nicotine-treated patients showed 

clinical improvement compared with 3 of 33 (9%) who received placebo [2].



1. Rudra T, Motley R, Rhodes J. Does Smoking Improve Colitis?

   Scan J Gastroenterol 1989;24:61-3

2. Sandborn WJ, Tremaine WJ, Offord KP, et al. Transdermal Nicotine for 

    Mildly Active Ulcerative Colitis. Ann Intern Med 1997;126:364-71



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: tobacco/nicotine-related health benefit???

From: "Harkins" <harkins@sky1.net>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:33:48 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by harkins <harkins@sky1.net> :



> While we're on the subject of nicotine in tobacco, listers might be

interested

> in knowing there have been observations that nonsmokers with ulcerative

> colitis have gone into remission when they start to smoke again [1]. I

> guess tobacco does have some health benefit for a few select groups

> of people.



==============Tobacco, unaltered tobacco, may have healing properties -- if

you wet the leaves and wrap it around a wound, bruise, sprain, etc... it's

reported to help heal quickly. I won't vouch for it personally because I've

not used it. However, I know a few that swear by its use. But it has to be

unprocessed -- not a commercial product. You need real tobacco leaves.



Susan



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: tobacco/nicotine-related health benefit???

From: Allan Foster <jointuse@gwtc.net>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:43:05 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by allan foster <jointuse@gwtc.net> :



>

>==============Tobacco, unaltered tobacco, may have healing properties -- if

>you wet the leaves and wrap it around a wound, bruise, sprain, etc... it's

>reported to help heal quickly. I won't vouch for it personally because I've

>not used it. However, I know a few that swear by its use. But it has to be

>unprocessed -- not a commercial product. You need real tobacco leaves.

	I have watched people use shredded and powdered tobacco from 

various sources including packs of Bugler and Top for treating open 

wounds for many years. Many times the powder or shreds are just 

pressed into the wound. While organic tobacco might be preferable for 

a host of reasons, medical and spiritual, the stuff in the pouches 

does work.

-- 



Allan Foster

He Dog's Camp, Rosebud Reservation

Voicemail: 1-877-351-8921

FAX: 801-459-5471

<mailto:jointuse@gwtc.net>

"It is a stupid society that  runs an experiment to see what its 

breaking points are." 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: tobacco/nicotine-related health benefit???

From: Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 06:26:40 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by creationsgarden@juno.com :



Paul-



You mentioned writing something on tobacco.  Would you care to post it?



Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden@juno.com

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

"To give pleasure to a single heart, by a single act, is better than a

thousand heads bowing in prayer."    M. Ghandi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: tobacco/nicotine-related health benefit???

From: "Jim & Mary Ann" <jhubbell@bridgernet.com>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:38:34 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by jim & mary ann <jhubbell@bridgernet.com> :



It finally makes sense. I remember over 20 years ago a doctor told my

brother not to quit smoking, he had tried everything and that along with the

other stresses going on in his life had made him sick. I only remember that

he had an ulcer of sorts. The doctor told him that he was one of those

people that would be healthier if he smoked. My reaction was skeptical to

say the least. A few years later, life was calmer for him and he quit

without any problem. It makes me wonder if that is why most of my friends

who quit smoking miss their "after dinner" smoke the most - maybe it had

something to do with digestion. Mary Ann



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Mistletoe

From: Willow <willow@venus.net>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:31:58 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Willow Ragan <willow@venus.net> :



Greetings all,



I'm doing ethnobotanical research on Mistletoe and I am wondering if anyone

on the list has any experience using it therapeutically they would be

willing to share.



Willow Ragan



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mistletoe

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:26:09 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Willow wrote:



> I'm doing ethnobotanical research on Mistletoe and I am wondering if anyone

> on the list has any experience using it therapeutically they would be

> willing to share.



Which mistletoe?



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Subhuti Dharmanda's work

From: p_iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:00:54 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by p_iannone@lamg.com :



People are constantly asking me for good coursework on Chinese herbalism,

and I often recommend the books of Subhuti Dharmananda. I have an update

on getting those works:



The home study guide is out of print, but I understand that SD is making

copies as requested. This is a $40 guide to Chinese herbalism that is very

good with a stunningly complete number of herbs considered. If there is

general interest, I suggest we put in a group request for copies so as not

to overwhelm them with requests. 



Dr. Dharmananda has several other works, and many, many articles available

(.50 to $4 each, at a rate of .10 [US] per page). That is seriously good

education for very cheap.



Go to:



https://www.europa.com/itmonline/artorder.htm



for a rather stunning list of topics. The main URL is:



http://www.itmonline.org/



You can join his START program, which sends out articles four times a

year. A $195 membership in START brings you up-to-date on all of these

articles, including those to be first made available in 2000. The new

stack comes out in March, as I understand it.



And there are some very nice features on the website, such as a wonderful

guide to ancient Chinese healers, at:



http://www.itmonline.org/docs/docs.htm



I don't know if this information is in the Herb FAQ or not, but it ought

to be if not. Dr. Dharmananda's works are very informative, and I heartily

recommend them to all. His articles are always interesting and often

profound. He has been at the forefront of Chinese herbal treatment of AIDS

and other serious chronic illnesses.



ITM, 2017 SE Hawthorne Blvd., Portland, Oregon 97214 

Phone: (503) 233-4907 

Fax: (503) 233-1017 



Their line of products, Seven Forests, are very good and relatively

inexpensive (all pills; unconcentrated). They are only available through

practitioners (not in stores); you cannot order them online to my

knowledge. His book on these products, Bag of Pearls ($14), is in update,

and a new version is supposed to be available in a couple of months. This

book is not of too much use without the products, but it is still

interesting. 



Another out of print 'book' is Golden Mirror, which deals with

constitutional types. It is available on request, for $6. Again, I

recommend we collate our requests and submit them as a single email to

avoid overwhelming ITM.



--



Paul



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: essential oil potency

From: christopher chinnock <chinnock@uclink4.berkeley.edu>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:03:58 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by christopher chinnock <chinnock@uclink4.berkeley.edu> :



At 12:00 AM 2/26/00 -0500, you wrote:

>Remember, essential oils, all of them, are stronger than you

>think. According to one source, the only safe essential oil to use "neat"

>(uncut) on the skin is lavender, but I have more questions than answers.



I had no idea about this -- can you go into greater detail, or comment?  I 

have been taking advice from someone who suggests regularly using e.oils on 

the skin!  If your statement is true, I assume overuse could have adverse 

affects on sinus sensitivities.

Christopher



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: essential oil potency

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:30:56 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:03:58 -0800 christopher chinnock

<chinnock@uclink4.berkeley.edu> writes:

>Sent to the herblist by christopher chinnock 

><chinnock@uclink4.berkeley.edu> :>

>At 12:00 AM 2/26/00 -0500, you wrote:

...Remember, essential oils, all of them, are stronger than you think.

According to one source, the only safe essential oil to use "neat"

(uncut) on the skin is lavender...I read this, and discovered that using

straight thyme oil on a "lesion" that seemed to need it caused a chemical

burn. 

>..have been taking advice from someone who suggests regularly using

e.oils on the skin! (gobs rubbed on an area near eyes, nose and mouth?

Cut with almond oil, olive oil or vegetable shortening?  Or is it tiny

dabs from the rim of the vial?)

>... overuse could have adverse affects on sinus sensitivities...

depending upon your previously existing sensitivities and how much, how

often and method and location of application.  Read, learn, and use the

well-thumbed reference books in your healthfood or yuppy store.  Good

luck, Good health and good caution, Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: essential oil potency

From: Roses9652@aol.com

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:14:58 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by roses9652@aol.com :



Is this true of tea tree oil?  My son has been using this as part of a skin 

cleansing program.  After using a cleanser, he dabs on pure tea tree oil on 

the worst skin eruptions.  His face doesn't look all that much better...but I 

figured it would probably get worse before it improved, perhaps.  Should I 

cut another oil, such as olive, into this?  Or, shouldn't he use it at all?  

Thanks.  Rosemary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: essential oil potency

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:43:58 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:14:58 EST Roses9652@aol.com writes:

>Sent to the herblist by roses9652@aol.com :

>

>Is this true of tea tree oil?  My son has been using this as part of a 

>skin cleansing program.  After using a cleanser, he dabs on pure tea

tree 

>oil on the worst skin eruptions.  His face doesn't look all that much 

>better. If the dabs don't sting, or leave a chemical burn,  it may be

the method of choice.  Alternating every other day with other things

might help with changes.  If the tea tree oil does not smell like

furniture polish, it may already be cut. Marcia<ngbard@juno.com>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: essential oil potency

From: MARDI2GRAS@aol.com

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:27:46 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by mardi2gras@aol.com :



interested in this discussion. I have been wearing patcholy (sp) :( essential 

oil for over 20 years applied directly to the skin as a perfume, and I have 

had sinus problems for almost 3 months now. What do you think list memebers?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: essential oil potency

From: "Graham White" <hendongreen@gn.apc.org>

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 21:53:34 -0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by graham white <hendongreen@gn.apc.org> :



The toxic potential of an essential oil to the skin is related to its

composition, EOs high in alcohols, eg. lavender and tea tree can be applied

neat; EOs high in phenols eg. thyme need to be diluted out in a carrier

oil - the usual concentration is 5% for external use.



Cheers



Graham White  B.Sc. (Herb. Med.), MNIMH.

Medical Herbalist

--------------------------------------------------------------------



hendongreen@gn.apc.org



>Is this true of tea tree oil?  My son has been using this as part of a skin

>cleansing program.  After using a cleanser, he dabs on pure tea tree oil on

>the worst skin eruptions.  His face doesn't look all that much better...but

I

>figured it would probably get worse before it improved, perhaps.  Should I

>cut another oil, such as olive, into this?  Or, shouldn't he use it at all?

>Thanks.  Rosemary



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Medical Marijuana?  New Study

From: "TeraGram" <teragram@silcom.com>

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:28:37 -0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by teragram@silcom.com :



Just in case you haven't seen this article, take a look at:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000228/sc/cancer_marijuana_1.html



Title: Study Says Marijuana Ingredients Kill Rat Tumors



OK, humans aren't rats, and there's a long way to go on this study.

Still, just a little more fodder for those in the 'medical establishment',

who deny that this plant has any benefit whatsoever, to chew on.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Question about a tonic..

From: maggie@gpc.peachnet.edu

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:09:03 -0500 (EST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by maggie@gpc.peachnet.edu :



Hi all,

     I made a kava tonic.. well several jars of it.. and one jar

     was left in the closet...Christams would have been 8 weeks

     .. but this poor jar was left sitting in the back of the closet

     just doing its thing all this while.... would it still be any

     good ?



     maggie.



    

-- 

______________________________________________________________________________

 maggie@gpc.peachnet.edu     |     PLEASE SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS

Georgia Perimeter College    |              IN ADVANCE 

Educational Technologies     |     SO THAT I MAY HELP YOU MORE

______________________________________________________________________________



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Question about a tonic..

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:54:49 EST

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 02/29/2000 12:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

maggie@gpc.peachnet.edu writes:



<< Hi all,

      I made a kava tonic.. well several jars of it.. and one jar

      was left in the closet...Christams would have been 8 weeks

      .. but this poor jar was left sitting in the back of the closet

      just doing its thing all this while.... would it still be any

      good ?

 

      maggie. >



Maggie, 



ABSOLUTELY,  I just pressed out my stuff a couple of weeks ago, and since 

both your fresh root and my fresh root came from the same place at the same 

time,  there is nothing to do but press and enjoy.  I don't know whether it 

was the Hiwa or the Makahea that you had sitting in the back of the closet, 

but I think that the Hiwa actually got stronger by sitting a little longer.  

peter



