

==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Tea Tree Oil

From: Alice From Hell <alicefromhell@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:50:59 GMT

--------

LuckyHoodoo wrote:



> >Tea tree oil is obtained by distillation, and so is very powerful (as

> >are any other oils obtained by distillation).   They're sold in small

> >bottles, because you need very little.   We certainly don't see any

> >diluted oil.

> >

> >An Aussie friend once used it under his armpits to deal with

> >perspiration - burnt himself severely (ouch).

> >

> >Good product, but be careful - test before you use full strength.

> >

> >bye

> >Jill from Australia

>

> Well I bought a big O' bottle from Wall Mart two years ago and It is still not

> empty.  (8 oz).  You are forgeting about carrier oils.  Most tea tree is not

> *pure* tea tree.  If it was you would be paying really high prices.  The back

> of my bottle states that it contains 2% of the chemical in tea-tree which

> provides the medicinal benefits.  It also states that this is the established

> percentage that all tea-tree oils must contain to be called "tea-tree oil" in

> the first place (coming from Australia).

>

> LuckyH.



Funny, all the EOs I buy, including tea true, are 100% undiluted.

My suppliers sells 10 mL for about eight bucks.



--

"When you make love you're using up energy; and afterwards you feel happy and

don't give a damn for anything. They can't bear you to feel like that. They want

you to be bursting with energy all the time."









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Tea Tree Oil

From: "tribble" <tribb@herbalbrews.com>

Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:31:43 -0500

--------

I use Tea Tree oil all the time, but there have been several cases of

toxicity caused by use of the Tea Tree EO not only in pets but in people.

Just be careful.



AUTHOR :    JACOBS MR

AUTHOR :   HORNFELDT CS

TITLE :  Melaleuca oil poisoning.

SOURCE :  JOURNAL OF TOXICOLOGY CLINICAL TOXICOLOGY; 32         (4). 1994.

461-464.



ABSTRACT:  BIOSIS  COPYRIGHT: BIOL ABS.

Melaleuca oil, extracted from the Melaleuca alternifolia, contains 50-60%

terpenes and related alcohols. Clinical experience with products containing

melaleuca oil  is limited. This case report suggests that ingestion of a

modest amount of a concentrated form of this oil may produce signs of

toxicity.





Blessings,

Tribble









> Digestive: antiseptic. Used for intestinal infections and diarrhea.

>

> Genito/urinary: antiseptic. Used for thrush, vaginitis, cystitis, fungal

> infections.

>

> Immune system: stimulates.

>











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==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Tea Tree Oil

From: Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:54:12 +0100

--------

I had a look in my cupboard and found I had 2 bottles of tea tree - one 'Tea

Tree Essential Oil' which is 100% pure and one 'Tea Tree Oil' which is 15% tea

tree.  I reckon if it says 'Essential Oil' its likely to be pure, and if it just

says 'oil' or 'aromatherapy oil' it'll be diluted.



Julia







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Tea Tree Oil

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:39:08 GMT

--------





Julia Maddocks wrote:



> I had a look in my cupboard and found I had 2 bottles of tea tree - one 'Tea

> Tree Essential Oil' which is 100% pure and one 'Tea Tree Oil' which is 15% tea

> tree.  I reckon if it says 'Essential Oil' its likely to be pure, and if it just

> says 'oil' or 'aromatherapy oil' it'll be diluted. Julia



The diluted is probably what people use as a direct application to zits and cuts.

The essential oil ( any kind) should be considered STRONG, an ingredient in a

mixture.  Use the strong stuff to "gauge" the others by comparison sniffing, and add

a sticker, if one of the others is equally strong. Standards cannot be policed.

Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: sleeping and addiction

From: "tribble" <tribb@herbalbrews.com>

Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:46:19 -0500

--------

Hi,



Try making a tea of equal parts passion flower, spearmint & chamomile. If

you can find tilia star flower this is good to add - about 1/4 part. Also

lemon verbena, lemon peel, lemongrass for flavor in 1/3rds. Lastly add 1/4

part catnip and hop strobile.



 Passion Flower & Catnip both frequently given to MS patients to "take the

edge off". I have had great success with people - prescribing this. I would

think it would have the same effect



You might also try going to your local health food store and getting a

cleansing/purifying tonic and ridding any of that residual Vicodin from your

body.



Blessings,

Tribble





Keith Blackketter <houstonwitchy@texquest.net> wrote in message

news:3b66d4e5$1_1@newsa.ev1.net...

> I have a question I ruptured two discs in my back about 9 months ago while

> working since that time I have been taking Vicodin, ( was supposed to be 4

> times a day, but I got it to where I was only taking it at night before I

> went to bed, ) now then I have had a procedure done on my back to correct

> the problem and want to get off the vicodin, I have tried every herb that

I

> know of; Hyssop, Valerian root, chamomile, Oats, kava kava, All of these

> make me drowsy, which is a good thing, but when I lie down I am not able

to

> get to sleep do to tossing and turning, basically cant get the edge off.

>

> Any help would be appreciated, I just need something that will make me

relax

> and not be so edgy if that makes sense

>

> Blessed be

>

> --

> In Her Service )o(

>

> Keith

>

>









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==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: sleeping and addiction

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: 1 Aug 2001 02:50:20 GMT

--------

Keith Blackketter <houstonwitchy@texquest.net> wrote in article

<3b66d4e5$1_1@newsa.ev1.net>...

[snip]

> All of these make me drowsy, which is a good thing, but when I lie

>down I am not able to get to sleep do to tossing and turning, 

>basically cant get the edge off.

> 



What you need to do, I think, is to relearn your sleep ritual.  Everybody

has one.  It's the way you lay down when you go to bed, toss and turn a few

times to get yourself comfortable, then fall asleep...there's a definite

pattern to how most people do this.  The vicodan preempted your previous

sleep ritual.  You just need to establish a new one.  The medication

knocked you out.  You now have to do the "work" it did.



> Any help would be appreciated, I just need something that will 

>make me relax and not be so edgy if that makes sense



Shift your focus here, Keith.  *You* need to make *yourself* relax, and to

not depend on an outside source.  Some things that help when I'm edgy at

night...deep breathing, focusing on my breathing, and relaxing my body. 

Pull yourself inward.  If you're one of those people who sees colors when

you close your eyes, focus on the colors you see and the patterns they

make.  



Focusing on soothing music helps, too.  Concentrate on your breathing and

how your body reacts to the music.  I like the old church music like

Gregorian chants (which are written to induce a meditative state) or John

Taverner's church music (psychic dental floss), and some of the "new age"

or world music.  I like Richard Warner's QUIET HEART (Japanese flute) -

it's very soothing.  Jon Mark's STANDING STONES OF CALANISH puts me out

every time...in fact, I had it a few months before I heard it all the way

through.  ;  )



Stick with it.  Eventually you'll be able to relax easily on your own. 

Just be patient with yourself.



Blessed be, Keith.



Saskia

-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.  









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: sleeping and addiction

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:55:09 -0700

--------

"Keith Blackketter" <houstonwitchy@texquest.net> wrote:



>I have a question I ruptured two discs in my back about 9 months ago while

>working since that time I have been taking Vicodin, ( was supposed to be 4

>times a day, but I got it to where I was only taking it at night before I

>went to bed, ) now then I have had a procedure done on my back to correct

>the problem and want to get off the vicodin, I have tried every herb that I

>know of; Hyssop, Valerian root, chamomile, Oats, kava kava, All of these

>make me drowsy, which is a good thing, but when I lie down I am not able to

>get to sleep do to tossing and turning, basically cant get the edge off.



  Start by cutting the Vicodin isn 1/2 and take 1/2 pill at night

for a couple of weeks, then 1/4 for a week orso.



Then you can usually give it up.



  One herb you don't mention is Tilia (European linden), which is

a VERY calming, take the edges off kind of an herb. 





Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Breast Engorgement	

From: "Eric" <spamhater_egoettl@qwest.net>

Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:49:08 -0700

--------

My wife and I recently miscarried our 25 week old baby.  My wife gave

birth to him on Saturday.  Her milk has come in and she's very

uncomfortable.  She's had mastitis a few year's ago and is dreading

that happening again.  Any help on 1) how to make her more comfortable

and 2) prevention of infection.  Thank you all before hand.  We are

really doing OK.  Thanks.



--

Eric









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Breast Engorgement	

From: "Deb" <debra@teleport.com>

Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:54:25 -0700

--------



Eric <spamhater_egoettl@qwest.net> wrote in message

news:PTL97.1656$YJ3.410059@news.uswest.net...

> My wife and I recently miscarried our 25 week old baby.  My wife

gave

> birth to him on Saturday.  Her milk has come in and she's very

> uncomfortable.  She's had mastitis a few year's ago and is dreading

> that happening again.  Any help on 1) how to make her more

comfortable

> and 2) prevention of infection.  Thank you all before hand.  We are

> really doing OK.  Thanks.

>

> --

> Eric

>

>

Such a difficult time for you, sympathy and prayers sent your way.



Try sage tea.  Sage (Salvia officinalis--regular garden/cooking sage)

is contraindicated for nursing mothers because it will dry the milk

up.



Hope this helps



Deb

--

(in Oregon, the pacific northWET)









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Breast Engorgement

From: Totara <down@the.woods>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 07:29:00 +1200

--------

cold cabbage leaves, ice packs...









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Breast Engorgement 

From: egr420@aol.com (Egr420)

Date: 02 Aug 2001 03:00:12 GMT

--------

>help on 1) how to make her more comfortable



Absolutely!!  Large (leafy green) cabbage leaves placed in her bra.  Won't take

long (few hours) before she feels the difference.  Take them out at night & do

it again during the day.  After 2 or 3 days, she'll be fine. 





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Breast Engorgement

From: Alice From Hell <alicefromhell@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 03:23:32 GMT

--------

What is it that the cabbage does, exactly?



Egr420 wrote:



> >help on 1) how to make her more comfortable

>

> Absolutely!!  Large (leafy green) cabbage leaves placed in her bra.  Won't take

> long (few hours) before she feels the difference.  Take them out at night & do

> it again during the day.  After 2 or 3 days, she'll be fine.



--

"When you make love you're using up energy; and afterwards you feel happy and don't

give a damn for anything. They can't bear you to feel like that. They want you to

be bursting with energy all the time."









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Breast Engorgement

From: "Nick" <hero.uk@mcmail.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:01:31 +0100

--------



Alice From Hell <alicefromhell@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3B68C821.60DA3B7B@hotmail.com...

> What is it that the cabbage does, exactly?

>

> Egr420 wrote:

>

> > >help on 1) how to make her more comfortable

> >

> > Absolutely!!  Large (leafy green) cabbage leaves placed in her bra.

Won't take

> > long (few hours) before she feels the difference.  Take them out at

night & do

> > it again during the day.  After 2 or 3 days, she'll be fine.

>



The midwives told my wife about the cabbage leaves trick for breast

infections while she was feeding.



Man I was so sceptical but it really worked - no idea at all why.



regs



Nick









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Granuloma Annulare

From: "poohoney" <poohoney@prodigy.net>

Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 06:11:05 GMT

--------

Hi-I have been diagnosed with granuloma annulare-some sort of benign tumors-

on my foot.  They seem to be growing and spreading now.  I have pain in the

bones of my feet and they crackle when I walk.  I know that this isn't

serious and the tumors usually resolve on their own but I'd sure like to

help them away.  I started taking Black Cohosh, Saw Palmetto and

Echinnacea/Goldenseal.  I also take Bromelain for all over joint pain.  Does

anyone have any ideas on how I could get rid of these things.  One theory is

that they are caused by a bacteria and steroid cream is prescribed.  I know

that there must be an herb to get rid of them too and I don't want to take

steroids.  Thanks for your suggestions.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Granuloma Annulare

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:00:25 GMT

--------





poohoney wrote:



> Hi-I have been diagnosed with granuloma annulare-some sort of benign tumors-

> on my foot.  They seem to be growing and spreading now.  I have pain in the

> bones of my feet and they crackle when I walk.  I know that this isn't

> serious and the tumors usually resolve on their own but I'd sure like to

> help them away.  I started taking Black Cohosh, Saw Palmetto and

> Echinnacea/Goldenseal.  I also take Bromelain for all over joint pain.  Does

> anyone have any ideas on how I could get rid of these things.  One theory is

> that they are caused by a bacteria and steroid cream is prescribed.  I know

> that there must be an herb to get rid of them too and I don't want to take

> steroids.  Thanks for your suggestions.



You may be a candidate for a comfrey ointment. You can always add antibacterial

and antivirus stuff like Garlic, oil of oregano and liquid GSE

Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Granuloma Annulare

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 17:54:19 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Your case of granuloma annulare (GA) researches as a good news-bad news

type problem:



	Good news: It is likely to go away even if you do nothing.

	Bad news: It may disseminate (spread or return elsewhere).

	Good news: IMHO, it is a good candidate for home treatment.

	Bad news: If  disseminated, it may be a sign of diabetes mellitus.

	Good news: You may have a lot of time to prevent complications.

	More good news: It -might- be easy to treat at this stage.

	Uncertain news: How would you know home treatment worked or not? 



http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol1num2/diabetes/granuloma-annulare.html

"_Granuloma Annulare and Diabetes_" 

"Similar to the association of necrobiosis lipoidica and diabetes, it

appears that a high percentage of persons with disseminated granuloma

annulare have diabetes mellitus."

"Figs 65,66. Skin biopsy from a patient with diabetes mellitus and

disseminated granuloma annulare. The left-hand image demonstrates both a

perivascular and interstitial inflammatory cell infiltrate. The right-hand

image demonstrates histiocytes between collagen bundles."

(c) 1995 Dermatology Online Journal, University of California Davis



Note the references to inflammation, suggesting maybe not enough

endogenous adrenal hormones.  Also refers to collagen; other references

said the collagen has changed, maybe damaged. This suggests a heavy load

on the vit C supply, since collagen can't form without it. (Ref. Norman

Cousins, _Anatomy of a Patient_, Bantam, 1991). The joint pain and noise

in your feet also suggests an arthritic condition associated with lack of

adrenal hormones. There is a lot of vit C stored in normal adrenal tissue.



I doubt the bacterial theory (unless we are talking about secondary

infection of severely damaged tissue). Corticosteroids (often synthetic

forms of adrenal hormones) in large quantities suppress immunity and

typically make bacterial infections worse.



On the other hand, if one has an autoimmune disease, one has excess

immunity, and large quantities of corticosteroids restore normal immune

balance (for a while).  Diabetes mellitus is suspected of being an

autoimmune disease of the insulin-producing islet cells in the pancreas.



Uncontrolled diabetes is a life shortener. While it is unpleasant (and

debilitating in your case) to have GA, you might come to consider it a bit

lucky that you got a distant early warning that you might have

sub-clinical diabetes or be approaching it.





Quick fixes (as always your mileage may vary   :)



Let's assume that what's nutritionally good for diabetes mellitus is also

good for granuloma annulare. Even if wrong, this is not a risky assumption

when using nutrients to attempt healing. 



In "How to Feel Better and Live Longer" by Linus Pauling, Nobel PhD

(Freeman, 1986), he cites:

"Dice and Daniel (1973) reported from the study of one diabetic subject

that for each gram of L-ascorbic acid taken [daily] by mouth the amount of

insulin required could be reduced by two [insulin] units."

and

"My conclusion from the evidence... is that there is no doubt that vitamin

E has great value in controlling peripheral vascular disease, which often

occurs together with heart disease and diabetes." The successful early

study of peripheral occlusive arterial disease which he cites used 300 to

600 IUs of vit E per day. Dr. Pauling ultimately recommended no less than

400 IUs per day when in otherwise good health, and he states, "...two or

three months of vitamin E intake is needed for it to become effective."



The pioneering vitamin E physicians of the Shute family used therapeutic

amounts of vit E, with slow daily increases, up to 3000 IUs per day. Blood

serum will not carry any more than 3000 IUs. Excessive amounts of natural

oil mixed-tocopherol vit E will likely cause gut cramps due to everyone's

limit on the ability to digest oil in quantity. Therefore, water soluble

dry E is typically added in when the daily oil E limit is reached. 



I currently take 800 IUs of vit E and 1.5 grams of vit C daily in fair

health. If I thought that I was threatened by diabetes or GA, I would take

more of both, with slow increases up to the E oil cramp limit, and

non-acid vit C (calcium ascorbate) slowly up to the bowel tolerance limit. 

Then if needed, dry E slowly up to the 3000 IUs daily limit. Dr. Pauling's

book contains more information and instructions on the vit C bowel

tolerance concept. Finally, bring the levels of the vits back down until

you find out what your actual daily needs are. This will take several

years, please be patient (heh). 



Because all nutrients work together, a daily balance of other

mega-nutrients is desirable including A and B vitamins, minerals, and

possibly amino acids. Except for the amino acids, these can be found in

one "ultra" daily vitamin tablet with many minerals and a B-complex number

of 100 (e.g., 100 mg of vit B1). If you can pay more, two "ultras" in B-50

size are easier to swallow. 



It is particularly important IMHO to include 2 grams daily of

calcium-magnesium in a 2:1 ratio. The el cheapo kind with zinc is probably

ok.





Slower fixes:



There are European herbs which should be useful for autoimmune diseases. I

will leave those suggestions to other a.f.h.'alists. 



The TCM/CHM herbal approach to frank diabetes as always, complicated by

the need to determine the state of your particular body (hot/cold,

moist/dry, etc.) In _Chinese Herbal Therapy_, Takahide Kuwaki, M.D.,

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0941942309/qid=996830216/sr=1-4/ref=sc_b_4/103-9404960-6818225

lists a tree diagram with no less than eight herbal formulas for diabetes,

chosen depending on your particular body and symptom patterns. If the

quick fixes don't do the job, you can consider whether these TCM/CHM

formulas may (or not) be appropriate for your GA.





Be aware that vit E and vit C fixes are quite general for many conditions,

while the formulas Kuwaki lists are more narrowly focused on the specific

patterns listed (as opposed to a Western-named disease). In general, if

you fit the symptom pattern, the formula is recommended, little matter

what your disease is called. 



Hope this helps. I would be very interested to learn from you whether the

quick fix vitamins work as well as Pauling and the Shutes believed.



Sean

(Not A Doc And I May Be Wrong   :)

---



poohoney <poohoney@prodigy.net> wrote in message

news:Z3N97.162$VV5.18038913@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...

> Hi-I have been diagnosed with granuloma annulare-some sort of benign 

> tumors- on my foot.  They seem to be growing and spreading now.  I 

> have pain in the bones of my feet and they crackle when I walk.  I 

> know that this isn't serious and the tumors usually resolve on their 

> own but I'd sure like to help them away.  I started taking Black 

> Cohosh, Saw Palmetto and Echinnacea/Goldenseal.  I also take 

> Bromelain for all over joint pain.  

> Does anyone have any ideas on how I could get rid of these things.  

> One theory is that they are caused by a bacteria and steroid cream is 

> prescribed.  I know that there must be an herb to get rid of them too 

> and I don't want to take steroids.  Thanks for your suggestions. 







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Remove freckles

From: "Paul  Groves" <paul.groves@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:19:00 +0100

--------





"fang" <fang27@excite.com> wrote in message

news:3b6609ac.3321291@chicago.usenetserver.com...

> On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:58:30 +0100, "Sue Green"

> <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>

> >ahh, you cant get rid of them. they're kisses from the angels...  :0)

> >(it was no comfort for me either when I was 10 and covered in them, and

> >still have plenty now)

> >

> >

> >Sue

>

> A woman without freckles is like a night without stars..........

> :-)

>

> -Mike

>

> P.S.  Guys with freckles; sorry, got nothing for ya.



Damn! :-)



Ah well, my girlfriend doesn't seem to object! :-)









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Remove freckles

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:08:28 GMT

--------





LuckyHoodoo wrote:



> >A woman without freckles is like a night without stars.........



> >-Mike>P.S.  Guys with freckles; sorry, got nothing for ya.*LOL*

> LuckyH.

> P.S.  I prefer the term "Angel Kisses" to freckles.  Please adjust your vocab.



Marcia:

If you use a super sunblockcream and stay out of the sun during peak sun like

highnoon or 11:00 during daylight savings time, you may fade these "taches de

douceur" ( Colette used douceur instead of rousseur to say touches of sweetness

instead of touches of red) down to a hint of what it was.  If you are a beach

bunny, wear a long sleeved shirt after the first 10 minutes ( even in the water

darling) and a picture hat, and keep applying that sunblock cream.



Good luck and good health,

Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Remove freckles

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:45:16 +0100

--------

;0)   truly thats a cracker...  youll go a long way when the world has been

turned to all women by eostrogen (spl?)  over dominance..





Sue







LuckyHoodoo wrote in message

<20010731105743.16299.00003358@ng-mq1.aol.com>...

>>A woman without freckles is like a night without stars..........

>>:-)

>>

>>-Mike

>>

>>P.S.  Guys with freckles; sorry, got nothing for ya.

>>











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. (was Re: Echinacea Tinctures)

From: "Deb" <debra@teleport.com>

Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:39:03 -0700

--------



fang <fang27@excite.com> wrote in message

news:3b67aadc.659797@chicago.usenetserver.com...

> Interestingly enough, I have a tincture (of Ech) I picked up that

has

> no alcohol - the first I've ever seen that.  Got it about 6 months

ago

> in Amish Country  (Lancaster, PA).

>



Is the base glycerine?  Some people use it.  Many of the herbal

constituants will not be drawn out using it.  It has a much shorter

shelf life than alcohol.  I don't like the taste or texture.  ymmv





> Is there an amount of alcohol % that works best?  A previous post

said

> they used 55%.  Commercial tinctures I've seen usually have 25% -

35%.

> I have a bottle of 80 proof vodka to use - should I switch to grain

> alcohol and distilled water?

>



Simples can be made using 80 proof (40%) vodka.  There are many

theories and some research to justify higher  (or lower) alcohol

usage.  One thing to think about:   our elders were preserving their

medicinal herbs long before we could measure the % of alcohol.  With a

tincture, you can dose small, if it isn't enough you can increase it

easily.  This ain't prescription, mass produced medicine if you are

making it in your kitchen.  ;>



If you want a real good book, I would suggest 'Making Plant Medicine'

by Richo Cech  www.chatlink.com/~herbseed   Richo has many years

experience and writes in an informative yet entertaining manner.



Deb

--

(in Oregon, the pacific northWET)









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. (was Re: Echinacea Tinctures)

From: fang27@excite.com (fang)

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 01:58:01 GMT

--------

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:39:03 -0700, "Deb" <debra@teleport.com> wrote:



>

>fang <fang27@excite.com> wrote in message

>news:3b67aadc.659797@chicago.usenetserver.com...

>> Interestingly enough, I have a tincture (of Ech) I picked up that

>has

>> no alcohol - the first I've ever seen that.  Got it about 6 months

>ago

>> in Amish Country  (Lancaster, PA).

>>

>

>Is the base glycerine?  Some people use it.  Many of the herbal

>constituants will not be drawn out using it.  It has a much shorter

>shelf life than alcohol.  I don't like the taste or texture.  ymmv



Yes, it is glycerine - and I agree about the taste.  Pretty much ruins

any kind of drink you put it in.





>

>> Is there an amount of alcohol % that works best?  A previous post

>said

>> they used 55%.  Commercial tinctures I've seen usually have 25% -

>35%.

>> I have a bottle of 80 proof vodka to use - should I switch to grain

>> alcohol and distilled water?

>>

>

>Simples can be made using 80 proof (40%) vodka.  There are many

>theories and some research to justify higher  (or lower) alcohol

>usage.  One thing to think about:   our elders were preserving their

>medicinal herbs long before we could measure the % of alcohol.  With a

>tincture, you can dose small, if it isn't enough you can increase it

>easily.  This ain't prescription, mass produced medicine if you are

>making it in your kitchen.  ;>



I read in a few books anywhere from 25% to 40% alcohol, and in online

book called "Herb Formulas for Clinic And Home" (by Michael Moore)

that echinacea augustfolia should have a tincture of 80% alcohol.  So

it got me wondering about what would work best.



Thanks,



-Mike





---------------------------------------------------



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http://www.fschobbies.com/backissues/backissues.html







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. (was Re: Echinacea Tinctures)

From: "Deb" <debra@teleport.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:22:57 -0700

--------



fang <fang27@excite.com> wrote in message

news:3b69b376.1761872@chicago.usenetserver.com...

> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:39:03 -0700, "Deb" <debra@teleport.com> wrote:

>

> >

> >fang <fang27@excite.com> wrote in message

> >news:3b67aadc.659797@chicago.usenetserver.com...

> >> Interestingly enough, I have a tincture (of Ech) I picked up that

> >has

> >> no alcohol - the first I've ever seen that.  Got it about 6

months

> >ago

> >> in Amish Country  (Lancaster, PA).

> >>

> >

> >Is the base glycerine?  Some people use it.  Many of the herbal

> >constituants will not be drawn out using it.  It has a much shorter

> >shelf life than alcohol.  I don't like the taste or texture.  ymmv

>

> Yes, it is glycerine - and I agree about the taste.  Pretty much

ruins

> any kind of drink you put it in.

>

>



I never could tell if it had spoiled.  I like to taste my herbs, not

cover them up with some syrupy glop.  ;>    Some herbs need to be

tasted, like bitters for example.



>

> I read in a few books anywhere from 25% to 40% alcohol, and in

online

> book called "Herb Formulas for Clinic And Home" (by Michael Moore)

> that echinacea augustfolia should have a tincture of 80% alcohol.

So

> it got me wondering about what would work best.

>



Richo (Making Plant Medicine, www.chatlink.com/~herbseed) spends the

first 100 pages talking about different preparation methods.  Michael

Moore has detailed instructions also.  The different %ages might be

different opinions, or some books might be using fresh herb and others

dry.  Most medicinal constituents will be drawn out of the herb either

by alcohol or water.  The water is either in the fresh herb or in the

menstrum.



The thing is, especially when you are just starting, do you have a way

to weigh the herb and measure the menstrum accurately?  I'm still

looking for a decent scale (in my price range) that can measure the

small amounts of herb to tincture for one person for a year.  My

current method results in tinctures that seem stronger than

commercially available ones.  I adjust my dose down and can add more

if I think I need to.



I figure if I want something more 'exact' than what I make, I'll buy

from HerbPharm, Wise Woman Herbals, or Eclectic.  These are all local

professional, experienced herbal companies.  I don't know how large

their distribution is, but most areas will have their local

equivalent.  Or use mail order.



Deb

--

(in Oregon, the pacific northWET)









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. (was Re: Echinacea Tinctures)

From: fang27@excite.com (fang)

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:16:36 GMT

--------



>Richo (Making Plant Medicine, www.chatlink.com/~herbseed) spends the

>first 100 pages talking about different preparation methods.  Michael

>Moore has detailed instructions also.  The different %ages might be

>different opinions, or some books might be using fresh herb and others

>dry.  Most medicinal constituents will be drawn out of the herb either

>by alcohol or water.  The water is either in the fresh herb or in the

>menstrum.

>

>The thing is, especially when you are just starting, do you have a way

>to weigh the herb and measure the menstrum accurately?  I'm still

>looking for a decent scale (in my price range) that can measure the

>small amounts of herb to tincture for one person for a year.  My

>current method results in tinctures that seem stronger than

>commercially available ones.  I adjust my dose down and can add more

>if I think I need to.



Well, I have a scale that measures to the gram, so I can get pretty

exact measurements by weight.  I was thinking a 1 to 5 ratio on fresh

Ech to alcohol.



-Mike





---------------------------------------------------



Looking for any Disney comic book back issues?  Check out:



http://www.fschobbies.com/backissues/backissues.html







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. (was Re: Echinacea Tinctures)

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:47:00 -0400 (EDT)

--------

If wine naturally ferments until the alcohol reaches the 10-15% range, and

at that point fermentation ceases because the yeast organisms are poisoned

by their own fermentation products, and, bacteria die at a some alcohol

percentage in the 3-5% beer range (this be true?), why do you believe that

you need so much alcohol in your tincture for any reason other than

maximum solvent extraction? 



(The reason I'm asking is that I still don't know the amount of alcohol to

recommend adding to cooked commercial aqueous cayenne sauce, to be packed

away in  home heart attack emergency kits (the Shulze/Christopher

method).)



Sean

---



Wakefield <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:9ki6sk$sc8$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

>    My take on this is; one of the prime considerations is ensuring that

> the tincture not support the growth of bacteria or fungi. Starting with

> roots, unless they are very well-scrubbed, seems to offer a chance at a

> higher level of initial contaminants, so you might want a higher level of

> alcohol (80% as you were saying, for example).









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. (was Re: Echinacea Tinctures)

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 05:35:13 -0700

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:



>(The reason I'm asking is that I still don't know the amount of alcohol to

>recommend adding to cooked commercial aqueous cayenne sauce, to be packed

>away in  home heart attack emergency kits (the Shulze/Christopher

>method).)



Consider using the small commercial packets of hot sauce - they

are already sterile and don't take up much room.



It just a small bottle of Tabasco.  It lasts for years on the

shelf. 

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. (was Re: Echinacea Tinctures)

From: "Deb" <debra@teleport.com>

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 00:37:16 -0700

--------



Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote in message

news:Pine.LNX.3.96.1010804224413.26809A-100000@ASARian.org...

> If wine naturally ferments until the alcohol reaches the 10-15%

range, and

> at that point fermentation ceases because the yeast organisms are

poisoned

> by their own fermentation products, and, bacteria die at a some

alcohol

> percentage in the 3-5% beer range (this be true?), why do you

believe that

> you need so much alcohol in your tincture for any reason other than

> maximum solvent extraction?

>

> (The reason I'm asking is that I still don't know the amount of

alcohol to

> recommend adding to cooked commercial aqueous cayenne sauce, to be

packed

> away in  home heart attack emergency kits (the Shulze/Christopher

> method).)

>

> Sean

> ---



I've read several times that a 23-25% alcohol is needed to preserve

herbal tinctures.  I would need substansial proof to trust anything

less.  ymmv



Deb

--

(in Oregon, the pacific northWET)

>

> Wakefield <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

> news:9ki6sk$sc8$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

> >    My take on this is; one of the prime considerations is ensuring

that

> > the tincture not support the growth of bacteria or fungi. Starting

with

> > roots, unless they are very well-scrubbed, seems to offer a chance

at a

> > higher level of initial contaminants, so you might want a higher

level of

> > alcohol (80% as you were saying, for example).

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. (was Re: Echinacea Tinctures)

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 13:02:15 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Commercial hot sauce packets are certainly something to remember. If one

was unprepared out on the road and had any heart warning symptoms, a visit

to the nearest Taco Bell for 10 hot sauce packets would be better than

nothing. 



In a true heart attack speed of treatment is essential. 



Recalling my test of the Shulze method during my own very painful

non-heart attack (probably ischemic colitis) it would have been very

difficult to find and grasp such small packets. Sometimes I can't get

these open under normal circumstances without using scissors. It would

have been harder still to open between 5 to 10 them and somehow squirt

them down my throat instead of landing them on my tongue. Very likely

there would have been cayenne all over my face and hands, which would

probably have made the whole experience a lot more unpleasant.



Dr. Shulze uses standard brown dropper bottles in his emergency herbalist

kit containing tincture of cayenne and tincture of lobelia. These cost on

the order of $25 each from Southern Botanical, who used to be Shulze's

signature product supplier. Schulze also mentioned an aiming strategy by

using the dropper to squirt under tongue for unconscious people (lobelia

for an epileptic fit). 



I simply noticed that my coop carried "Fig's One Drop" cayenne sauce

(Figueroa Bros., Metaire, LA, 800-886-6354 for local distribution

inquiries.) already packaged in a standard brown glass dropper bottle for

a fraction of the Southern Botanical cost. 



It just seems to me that adding somewhere between 5 to 15% Everclear would

allow one to put a Fig's bottle in a heavy freezer zip lock plastic bag in

the first aid kit, car, tool box, camper, etc, and forget about it unless

it was needed. ???



Sean

---



Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:n8fqmtcgiqasrps4t72qpqsvsr5mn0njd3@4ax.com...

> Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:

> >(The reason I'm asking is that I still don't know the amount of alcohol

> >to recommend adding to cooked commercial aqueous cayenne sauce, to be

> >packed way in  home heart attack emergency kits (the Shulze/Christopher

> >method).)

> 

> Consider using the small commercial packets of hot sauce - they

> are already sterile and don't take up much room. It just a small 

> bottle of Tabasco.  It lasts for years on the shelf. 

> Tsu Dho Nimh

> 









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: I have a queation....About Mint seed....

From: nivi.bbs@x3.net.vit.edu.tw (ι)

Date: 01 Aug 2001 12:52:51 GMT

--------



  I love mint so much. Because I live in taiwan, I can't buy some

  kinds of mints in there. I want to buy mint seeds. Are there

  anybady can tell me where I can find them(Online)? Please!



  Thanks so much.



ps.Because my English is so poor, I hope somebady can understand

   what I mean.

                                     nivi.



--

  Hi! I so love Rodents....      :)



  Niviventer coxingi and N. culturatus are my favorite rats.



  They live in Taiwan, me too.       :)



--

# Origin: TANet Botanical Gardens BBS 192.192.42.3

# From: pri105.dialup.tku.edu.tw





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: I have a queation....About Mint seed....

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: 1 Aug 2001 13:54:44 GMT

--------

ι <nivi.bbs@x3.net.vit.edu.tw> wrote in article

<3ha6U4$7ek@x3.net.vit.edu.tw>...

> 

>   I love mint so much. Because I live in taiwan, I can't buy some

>   kinds of mints in there. I want to buy mint seeds. Are there

>   anybady can tell me where I can find them(Online)? Please!

> 

>   Thanks so much.

> 

> ps.Because my English is so poor, I hope somebady can understand

>    what I mean.



I've never been successful at growing mint from seed.  It grows best by the

shoots it sends out.  You should look for a site that sells live plants.  



Saskia



-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.  









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Leg Cramps after running. . .

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:01:35 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:6g9dmtskn79hu6ahgmfpcnnab8v0l1diom@4ax.com...

> Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:

> >[...]"Prevention", which seemed to have a policy of allowing authors

> >without degrees write whatever they liked about food and health.  

> >

> >Hmm... kinda like alt.folklore.herbs. 

> 

> HEY!!

> 

> I'll have you know that _I_ have a degree!

> Henriette, M.Sc.(Econ).



LOL!



> (Actually, I also have a diploma as Certified Clinical Herbalist, but 

> that paper isn't worth much. [...]



Yet I bet it keeps you out of Finlandia government trouble. 



I have wallpaper more or less like Dinara's (beg pass on details so I

don't come across as high holy to my Rainbow hippy friends). But, it would

be of no value if <insert worst paranoid Julf Helsingius case here> our

State Board of Allopaths took a very jaundiced view of my a.f.h. musings. 



I was thinking about what could happen to some of us US folks, especially

those in actual herbal practice on the land. I've done a bit of that

mostly at Rainbow gatherings, and then only when the higher holies were

-really- busy :D





Alliums <garlicgrower@snip.net> wrote in message

news:tmdmjhojruo11@corp.supernews.com...

> >I'll have you know that _I_ have a degree!

> 

> Me, too! :-D

> 

> Dinara, M.S. (Technical and Scientific Communication; Drexel University, 

> Philadelphia, PA) Tell you the truth, it was the library science courses 

> I took while at Drexel that have paid off the most. . .



A few AMA quack watchers have noticed the barbarians (health and medical

information specialists) at the gates.  At some point they will have to

make an example of one of us by metaphorical beheading and pikeing. 



However, before they get around to it, we may sack the citadel. 



Younger non-AMA allopaths have been told that they could have something

like 40-50% fewer questions to answer if medical librarians helped them

out. Docs could answer another 23% of Q's by email without need to see the

patient. 



Somewhere in that 75%-ish area, and when dealing with non-fulminating

health conditions, there is room for potentially original creative library

research. This can happen when the answer to a health-med question is not

found in any textbook, but a previously unpublished answer may be deduced

from leads found both in the scientific literature and traditional healing

texts. 



Library research is also a completely legitimate pursuit by scholars.  My

professor of research told us of the irony that he had become most

well-known for the publication of his creative library research, rather

than his experimental studies. 





My role model is the late California electronics engineer Nathan Pritikin

and his 1958 library research discovery that a very low fat (<10%) diet

with exercise will reverse occlusive coronary heart disease. He cured

himself first. Long before Dr. Dean Ornish and the other Dr-come-latelys,

Pritikin not only figured out a working treatment plan, but he also

figured out a way to make money at it, while holding the immensely

powerful cardiology establishment at bay. 



Essentially, his patients were desperate and dying wealthy people.

Pritikin charged them enough to hire a staff of medical doctors. He didn't

have to ask the government for permission, because for practical purposes,

he was running a health spa. The MDs saw many people leave, clearly better

off than when they arrived, and they documented the success of the

treatment. Also, the MDs were well-paid and had easy work in a nice

climate, so they defended the Pritikin method against all professional

attacks. By 30-40 years later, the cardiology establishment had caved, and

finally everyone was happy. 



I wonder if someone could channel Nathan Pritikin for... 



..another legendary health business plan!



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: girlwater99@yahoo.com (Cindy)

Date: 1 Aug 2001 08:42:25 -0700

--------

Hello, glad I found this site, I hope someone out there can help me.



I am 35, and went off of the pill end of Dec, because it causes me to

have very sore breasts, bad moods (snapping at my boyfriend one too

many times over nothing), bloating, occasional bleeding between

periods, and an irregular heartbeat (anxiety?).



So I went off of the pill, awesome decision. I feel much better

overall, moods are normal again, body feels normal, moods ect...Except

now....



... It is now July and this month and last, I have had spotting almost

continiously. It sucks, and it doesn't seem to be going away, I have

it more in the mornings it seems, then tapers a bit, but generally

there all day long, it is not heavy and only requires me to wear a

pantyliner.  I have no pain, no breast tenderness, or any other major

symptoms.



I went to the doctor and he recommended that I go on the pill or take

a Depro-Provera shot. NO WAY, I went off of the pill for very good

reasons, and I tried the Depro shot once about 5 years ago and it

caused me to spot like I am now and had to go on the pill then to stop

it. I never used to have that much problem with the pill when I was

younger, just milder symptoms than what I explained above, I did have

the irregular heartbeat before too which is kind of freaky, I told the

doctor about this and he didn't seem to concerned about it. I don't

believe I have anything wrong with my heart, I believe it was just

anxiety caused by the pill.



He also told me that I was having a lack of estrogen in my body and

that is what causes this spotting. My last pap test was normal, and I

have never had any problems before, I have not had kids yet, and I

plan on it next year, and do not want to mess with things too much. 

My 3 older sisters are starting to experience menopause at around 45,

so I don't think that is what is happening, they are beginning to miss

periods and I don't think they had this problem.

So.... I do not want to go on the pill again, or the Depro shot, there

has to be something that will help I hope?



I have heard that progesterone cream may help my problem, is this

true? Is there anything out there that can help? Is this what is

called dysfunctional uterine bleeding?



Any information will be greatly appreciated.



Thanks,



Cindy





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: "Deb" <debra@teleport.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:31:39 -0700

--------



Cindy <girlwater99@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:397c752e.0108010742.3ff740c1@posting.google.com...

> Hello, glad I found this site, I hope someone out there can help me.

>

> I am 35, and went off of the pill end of Dec, because it causes me

to

> have very sore breasts, bad moods (snapping at my boyfriend one too

> many times over nothing), bloating, occasional bleeding between

> periods, and an irregular heartbeat (anxiety?).

>

> So I went off of the pill, awesome decision. I feel much better

> overall, moods are normal again, body feels normal, moods

ect...Except

> now....

>

> ... It is now July and this month and last, I have had spotting

almost

> continiously. It sucks, and it doesn't seem to be going away, I have

> it more in the mornings it seems, then tapers a bit, but generally

> there all day long, it is not heavy and only requires me to wear a

> pantyliner.  I have no pain, no breast tenderness, or any other

major

> symptoms.

>

> I went to the doctor and he recommended that I go on the pill or

take

> a Depro-Provera shot. NO WAY, I went off of the pill for very good

> reasons, and I tried the Depro shot once about 5 years ago and it

> caused me to spot like I am now and had to go on the pill then to

stop

> it. I never used to have that much problem with the pill when I was

> younger, just milder symptoms than what I explained above, I did

have

> the irregular heartbeat before too which is kind of freaky, I told

the

> doctor about this and he didn't seem to concerned about it. I don't

> believe I have anything wrong with my heart, I believe it was just

> anxiety caused by the pill.

>

> He also told me that I was having a lack of estrogen in my body and

> that is what causes this spotting. My last pap test was normal, and

I

> have never had any problems before, I have not had kids yet, and I

> plan on it next year, and do not want to mess with things too much.

> My 3 older sisters are starting to experience menopause at around

45,

> so I don't think that is what is happening, they are beginning to

miss

> periods and I don't think they had this problem.

> So.... I do not want to go on the pill again, or the Depro shot,

there

> has to be something that will help I hope?

>

> I have heard that progesterone cream may help my problem, is this

> true? Is there anything out there that can help? Is this what is

> called dysfunctional uterine bleeding?

>

> Any information will be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Cindy



There are so many things that could be parts of your problem.  Any

information from a 'newsgroup junkie' would take a lot of research on

your part before you would know if it was safe to follow.



Look for a local herbalist or Naturopathic physician or Traditional

Chinese Medicine practitioner.  They will talk to you for about an

hour and together you can work on a plan of action.



Deb

--

(in Oregon, the pacific northWET)









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: 2 Aug 2001 11:34:58 GMT

--------

Cindy <girlwater99@yahoo.com> wrote in article

<397c752e.0108010742.3ff740c1@posting.google.com>...

[snip]

> So I went off of the pill, awesome decision. I feel much better

> overall, moods are normal again, body feels normal, moods ect...Except

> now....

> 

> ... It is now July and this month and last, I have had spotting almost

> continiously. It sucks, and it doesn't seem to be going away, I have

> it more in the mornings it seems, then tapers a bit, but generally

> there all day long, it is not heavy and only requires me to wear a

> pantyliner.  I have no pain, no breast tenderness, or any other major

> symptoms.

[snip]



I think it just might be your body trying to readjust, to find its normal

hormonal pattern.  When I went off the pill years ago, I had the same

problem.  It will eventually go away.  If it gets too annoying, shepherd's

purse can help with the bleeding.  Personally though, I'd let it run it's

course.  



Saskia

-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.  





> 





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 18:55:05 GMT

--------





Saskia wrote:



>

>

> >

> > ... It is now July and this month and last, I have had spotting almost

> > continiously.



>

> I think it just might be your body trying to readjust, to find its normal

> hormonal pattern.  When I went off the pill years ago, I had the same

> problem.  It will eventually go away.  If it gets too annoying, shepherd's

> purse can help with the bleeding.  Personally though, I'd let it run it's

> course.

> Saskia



Marcia:

The above advice is either very good or super.  However, there are "more

natural" hormonal materials from your ob/gyn to look into.  In asking, you may

find out like I did that your original hormonal prescriptions were designed to

deal with something that they know about but haven't told you like a

hyperplasia which I have, and my HRT is designed to deal with it slowly,

SLOWLY!

Good luck

Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:58:20 GMT

--------

On 1 Aug 2001 08:42:25 -0700, girlwater99@yahoo.com (Cindy) wrote:



>

>I have heard that progesterone cream may help my problem, is this

>true? Is there anything out there that can help? Is this what is

>called dysfunctional uterine bleeding?



Cindy, the problems you had while on the pill all suggest an

intolerance to exogenous progesterone, similar problems which many

women not taking drugs suffer pre-menstrually.

See:

http://members.nbci.com/diff_drummer/

which is indeed biased against the stuff but no more so than the

progesterone snake oil salesmen are biased against _endogenous_

oestrogen!

Prescription progesterone _is_ used alone in the treatment of

menorrhagia in perimenopausal women but we're talking about heavy

continuous bleeding here, not spotting.  Plus it would be a

contraindication when it comes to conception.

OTC creams are unregulated and mostly touted to women with peri

problems. If they contain sufficient progesterone to have any but a

placebo effect then they _should_ clearly be administered by a doctor.

If all they are is a placebo then I'd say, why fill someone else's

wallet.



Irregular heart beat or palpitations can be an early sign of

perimenopause. But, as you say, it can also be caused by anxiety and

having felt so crummy on the pill is sufficient cause to be anxious!

However, if they continue you might want to consult another doctor.

Indeed, as you wish to conceive, I'd say your present one isn't really

taking your concerns seriously enough. 

Handing out yet another script for hormone drugs is not the answer,

IMHO and I think you were very wise to refuse.  Given that you have

been pill free since December and are still having the spotting

problem, I think I'd want a second opinion from a gynaecologist. An

old-fashioned D&C might be required just to have a good 'clear out' of

endometrial build-up. 

I also don't think a internet recommended herbal remedy would make

much sense for something that is rather more than a menstrual problem

and for which you are unsure about the exact cause.  

Some which are recommended to women: dong quai, black cohosh and

motherwort, can make it worse. Vitex has been shown to work in

research but only when the cause is too much prolactin. Lady's mantle

can be useful for heavy periods but I'm not sure about breakthrough

type bleeding.  Perhaps a watch and wait approach, while ensuring an

iron-rich diet, might be best for a few more months. I suspect it's

what I'd do if conception isn't an urgent requirement. 



Joanna









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: fengxp@yahoo.com (David)

Date: 3 Aug 2001 04:46:08 -0700

--------

Hi Cindy,

I'm a Traditional Chinese Medical doctor, there are lots of women as

you in China, from my experiences only Chinese herbs can deal with it

and treat it well.



If you live in Toronto, please give me call at 416-5938558.  I have to

check the patient before I make prescriptions.  If not, please email

me your medical files(I just need more information).



Yours,



Sincerely,



David Feng





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: girlwater99@yahoo.com (Cindy)

Date: 3 Aug 2001 10:28:27 -0700

--------

Hello all,



Thanks for the information people, I am not sending my medical files

to anyone who I don't know personally. Sorry.  Perhaps if my problem

persists I will see a naturopath in my area.



I am currently trying the progesterone cream, perhaps its just a

"placebo effect", but it seems to be going away, I agree with the idea

to "wait it out" as I don't really want to try any drugs at all. I

would rather get a shot of progesterone like one person suggested,

rather than try endless BC pills to find the "right one".

Contraception is not a big worry for me as I can usually feel when I

ovulate and use condoms anyway.



My intention in posting this was to find information on some herbs

that may be helpful in regulating the menstrual cycle. I appreciate

the information given and I will be checking out those herbs

mentioned. I just didn't know the names of any, nor what could be

used.



I have been reading up on progesterone, and I find that a lot of info

says that in our daily regime our estrogen levels can be high, leading

to premature menstration in young girls, (I was 12 when I started,

normal, I grew up on a farm and ate wholesome foods), but eating store

bought products ect later in life... I think can really mess you up.

Also the going on and off the pill over the years.  I have the

pregnancy mask on my face, I have never had children. I was told and

have read that this is from too much estrogen in the body.  So it seem

logical to me to try the progesterone.



Thanks again for your replies and I welcome any further comments.



Cindy





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: "iam me" <<NOSPAM>budhaboy@<NOSPAM>email.com>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:20:32 GMT

--------



"Cindy" <girlwater99@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:397c752e.0108030928.2adb8935@posting.google.com...

> My intention in posting this was to find information on some herbs

> that may be helpful in regulating the menstrual cycle.



Cindy, check out a copy of Rosemary Gladstar's  "Herbal Healing for Women"

Aside from being generally useful, there is a section devoted to regulating

the menstrual cycle.    Good luck!  -Jeska   ^_^









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: "judy barrett" <poet5@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:40:10 -0400

--------

Hi Cindy,

I was having some spotting between periods, and after doing some research I

started taking vitex, two capsules a day. After about a month the spotting

stopped. A few months after I ran out of vitex and did not buy more. the

spotting began again. So now I take it every day. I am down to one capsule

in the morning. Naturally I had myself checked by the doctor and he found

nothing wrong. I stop the vitex when my period starts and begin it again

when the period is over.



I hope this helps.



--

all blessings

Judy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Abnormal Menstrual Bleeding, help anyone?

From: girlwater99@yahoo.com (Cindy)

Date: 7 Aug 2001 16:06:37 -0700

--------

Hello all, just a note to say thanks again for the info, I will for

sure check out the vitex, sounds just like what may work for me. I am

doing well since taking the progestrone cream, seems like it worked

for me so far will see what happens next month, maybe I just needed a

little longer for my hormones to get in check after getting off the

pill 6 months ago.



I have been doing some reading about estrogen and progesterone and it

seems like we are living in an estrogen dominant world. I am beginning

to wonder if taking progesterone therapy may benefit a lot of women. I

am going to research this some more. You should all check it out as

well, you never know how it may help you!



Well good health to you all, and thanks for the valuable tips.



Sincerely,



Cindy





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: fleas

From: "Teunis van Ree" <vree@lantic.net>

Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:31:50 +0200

--------

Try obtaining 'desert rue' (Thamnosma texana) or 'turpentine broom'

(Thamonosma montana). A couple of twigs in/on their bedding will do the

trick!



"Dave Creech" <dtcreech@advnet.net> wrote in message

news:BK497.53995$aW5.718804@dfw-read.news.verio.net...



  I don't know if your cat will do this or not, but it works for my two

dogs.



Try adding some garlic to their food, at least every other day.  For some

reason fleas do not like the smell(?) of the garlic, and will look for some

other being to pester.



You will need to vacuum at least every other day, as it takes about 48 hours

for the eggs to hatch.  You will need to do this for at least two

weeks--just to be on the safe side.  Also wash all bedding in hot water,

with bleach (if possible).  You may want to shampoo your carpet.  You can

use flea powder on the carpet (leave it on for 30 minutes), and under the

couch cushions (I believe this was already said).  Most flea powders are so

non-invasive, you can even use them on your pet.  Flea collars are

(according to my vet) pretty much a waste of money, because they only

protect that small area around the eyes and ears.  But you may want to use

one anyways, I do.



A bath in an oatmeal based pet shampoo every other day for a week is also a

good idea.  My vet has told me that there is no reason to buy flea shampoo,

as the fleas will drown in any type of water.  Make sure you kill any fleas

which come off of your cat.  Also use the flea comb every day until the

fleas are gone--again killing any fleas that come off your animal.  I don't

envy you having to give your cat a bath :)



Also (I'm not sure this is a big problem for cats but...) if your animals

are not on a heartworm preventative, you should look into it.  Mosquitos and

fleas are the largest spreaders of heartworm.



Just a few ideas....



~Tammy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: fleas

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 2 Aug 2001 01:51:44 GMT

--------



> I don't know if your cat will do this or not, but it works for my two

> dogs.

> Try adding some garlic to their food, at least every other day.  For

> some reason fleas do not like the smell(?) of the garlic, and will look

> for some other being to pester.



NO!!!



Garlic and onions are toxic to cats, they can cause haemolytic anaemia.

A dosage level that would dissuade fleas would probably kill the cat.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: re: fleas

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 2 Aug 2001 08:53:29 GMT

--------

>Also I have heard that to get rid of fleas in ones home; take a "horse-apple"

>(a big green, "brain" looking fruit which oozes a white frothy, stinky liquid)

>and poke holes in it with a knife, needle or what not.  The liquid will

>immediately begin to ooze out.  Place this on top of some newspaper on the

>ground.  The smelly fruit is said to contain a chemical that fleas detest and

>should drive them from one's house.  (You may have to use several depending on

>how bad the infestation.)



>LuckyH.



Is this "horse-apple" Maclura pomifera, family Moraceae, also known as Osage

orange?  Osage breadfruit would be a better name for its appearance, and this

species is in the same family as the tropical breadfruit.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: fleas

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:39:42 -0700

--------

"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote:



>>Also I have heard that to get rid of fleas in ones home; take a "horse-apple"

>>(a big green, "brain" looking fruit which oozes a white frothy, stinky liquid)

>>and poke holes in it with a knife, needle or what not.  The liquid will

>>immediately begin to ooze out.  Place this on top of some newspaper on the

>>ground.  The smelly fruit is said to contain a chemical that fleas detest and

>>should drive them from one's house.  (You may have to use several depending on

>>how bad the infestation.)

>

>>LuckyH.

>

>Is this "horse-apple" Maclura pomifera, family Moraceae, also known as Osage

>orange?  



I hope so, because where I grew up, "horse apples" were of the

same famuily as "meadow muffins" and "cow pies" ... manure. 

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: re: fleas

From: luckyhoodoo@aol.com (LuckyHoodoo)

Date: 02 Aug 2001 16:33:14 GMT

--------

>Is this "horse-apple" Maclura pomifera, family Moraceae, also known as Osage

>orange?  Osage breadfruit would be a better name for its appearance, and this

>species is in the same family as the tropical breadfruit.



I don't know the actual name of the tree and it's fruit.  Here in Oklahoma we

mainly call them "horse-apples" although stinky-green-brain-fruit might be just

as well!!!



LuckyH.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal ratios for making formulas - website URLs needed

From: "Robyn" <herbalist@DELETETHISBITcableinet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 20:42:16 GMT

--------

"James" <jamesjc@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message

news:9k11fv$o39$1@news4.jaring.my...

| Hi everyone,

|

| I'm looking for a website that will show you the ratio of herbs for making

| formulas; i.e. 3 parts of one herb, and 2 parts of another herb etc. Any

| help would be much appreciated :)

|

Do you have some particular formulas in mind? Otherwise, what you are asking

for sounds rather complicated - you learn to make appropriate ratios through

experience and knowledge of the herbs concerned and it depends on why you

are using them, on the patient involved, the quality of herbs and all kinds

of stuff that can't really be summarised very easily.



Robyn









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Marijuana

From: Michael Acord <mpacord@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:12:34 GMT

--------

Steven Grace wrote:



> "AegleMarmelosAKA" <aeglemarmelosaka@aol.com> wrote in message

> news:20010730132637.18765.00000961@mb-mv.aol.com...

> >

> > Marijuana to treat excruciating painful Crohn's disease, Shingles

> > (post-herpetic-neuralgia) and Glaucoma should be legalized.

>

> What makes you believe that Marijuana can help with the pain of Crohns

> Disease? As a sufferer since pre-teen days ( I am now 38) I have never heard

> of Marijuana being used to alleviate the pain or symptoms of the disease. I

> know there is a current campaign to legalise the drug for MS but have never

> heard of it being associated with Crohns.

>

> Steve







There are good reasons to believe that medical marijuana could be useful in some

cases of Crohn's disease; for relief of pain, if nothing else.  Whether any

patient would benefit from it's use, given its known risks and side effects, is

really the subject for a discussion between the patient and the physician.  In a

few States, a recommendation for its use in some medical conditions is legal, at

least in terms of the State laws, but remains proscribed under federal law.  It

is only recently that marijuana has become available for research, and it will

be some time before the specifics of its use in a whole host of medical maladies

are known. But, given its RELATIVELY  benign nature, and a long history of use

in traditional medicine, it seems reasonable to allow a physician to add it to

his/her armementarium of beneficial compounds. One must always remember that the

battle over marijuana is based on politics, and not on the known scientific

evidence.  The majority of THAT does not support further prohibition in its

present form. The War on Drugs has cost us (you and me) a hundred billion

dollars, with no appreciable effect on drug use, and an ever worsening crime

component.  Wouldn't it have been nice to have seen a paltry 1% of that (say a

BILLION dollars) go into the research on finding a cure for Crohn's disease?

    A Sympathetic MD ;-}>







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Marijuana

From: N`osal Woodbender <nosalwoodbender@home.com>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:16:06 GMT

--------





Michael,

    While I do not have Crohn's disease, I have fibromyalgia. I cannot use marijuana

right now because of possible UA's. And I know it helps my pain, even for a couple

of days after. I had not touched the stuff for over 15 years when a friend of mine

"made my day" around 2 years ago. She gave me a brownie that was laced. It was the

first time I had been out of pain in a long time.



Greg





> Steven Grace wrote:

>

> > "AegleMarmelosAKA" <aeglemarmelosaka@aol.com> wrote in message

> > news:20010730132637.18765.00000961@mb-mv.aol.com...

> > >

> > > Marijuana to treat excruciating painful Crohn's disease, Shingles

> > > (post-herpetic-neuralgia) and Glaucoma should be legalized.

> >

> > What makes you believe that Marijuana can help with the pain of Crohns

> > Disease? As a sufferer since pre-teen days ( I am now 38) I have never heard

> > of Marijuana being used to alleviate the pain or symptoms of the disease. I

> > know there is a current campaign to legalise the drug for MS but have never

> > heard of it being associated with Crohns.

> >

> > Steve

>

> There are good reasons to believe that medical marijuana could be useful in some

> cases of Crohn's disease; for relief of pain, if nothing else.  Whether any

> patient would benefit from it's use, given its known risks and side effects, is

> really the subject for a discussion between the patient and the physician.  In a

> few States, a recommendation for its use in some medical conditions is legal, at

> least in terms of the State laws, but remains proscribed under federal law.  It

> is only recently that marijuana has become available for research, and it will

> be some time before the specifics of its use in a whole host of medical maladies

> are known. But, given its RELATIVELY  benign nature, and a long history of use

> in traditional medicine, it seems reasonable to allow a physician to add it to

> his/her armementarium of beneficial compounds. One must always remember that the

> battle over marijuana is based on politics, and not on the known scientific

> evidence.  The majority of THAT does not support further prohibition in its

> present form. The War on Drugs has cost us (you and me) a hundred billion

> dollars, with no appreciable effect on drug use, and an ever worsening crime

> component.  Wouldn't it have been nice to have seen a paltry 1% of that (say a

> BILLION dollars) go into the research on finding a cure for Crohn's disease?

>     A Sympathetic MD ;-}>



--

     Ya'at'eeh, Greg

    Breaking things since 1956

    http://members.home.net/nosalwoodbender









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Hep C viral count

From: "stephanie" <stephanie1441@home.com>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 00:16:18 GMT

--------

My viral count keeps climbing.  It is 30 million now, but my enzyme levels

have stayed normal for 1 year now.  I contribute it to the herbal extracts

that I started around 1 year ago.

What is the highest viral count anyone knows of, and what happens to my

health as this continues to climb?





Thanks

sd









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Hep C viral count

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:06:33 GMT

--------





stephanie wrote:



> My viral count keeps climbing.  It is 30 million now, but my enzyme levels

> have stayed normal for 1 year now.  I contribute it to the herbal extracts

> that I started around 1 year ago.

> What is the highest viral count anyone knows of, and what happens to my

> health as this continues to climb?

>

> Thanks

> sd



You may wish to use things to help the liver like milk thistle and dandelion

or at least read about them and talk to your physician.  You may wish to

relate to oil of oregano capsules in the same way.   If you want to try a

decoction of oregano leaves, it probably wouldn't hurt.

Good luck,

Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Hep C viral count

From: tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001)

Date: 03 Aug 2001 08:35:37 GMT

--------

>stephanie" stephanie1441@home.com 

wrote:

>

>My viral count keeps climbing.  It is 30 million now, but my enzyme levels

>have stayed normal for 1 year now.  I contribute it to the herbal extracts

>that I started around 1 year ago.

>What is the highest viral count anyone knows of, and what happens to my

>health as this continues to climb?

>

>

>Thanks

>sd



Hi Stephanie,



My prayers are with you.



I think you should run to a Health Food  store that sells:

 "ProBoost Thymic Protein A"



This product will enhance your Immune System to fight the virus, there  is a

lot of documentation on how it works, just do a search at:

http://www.google.com

or any other search engine, also search for Thymic Protein A  at

http://www.lef.org

which also has much more info on treatments for Hep.C



I would also recommend Maitake D-Fraction mushroom extract by Natures Answer

look at:

http://www.naturesanswer.com



Good luck and get well.



Tony





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Hep C viral count

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:54:15 -0400 (EDT)

--------

My current understanding of the most serious risk from hepatitis C is

possible liver cancer.



One of my relatives in his late seventies or early 80's recently died of

this combination. (For whatever it's worth, he said it was a relatively

easy way to go.)  It was obvious to me that his immune system had kept the

hep c virus in check for quite a long time, perhaps twenty-five or more

years since he was probably exposed to contaminated blood as a medical

worker. 



If I had your condition, I would take non-acid vitamin C (e.g., Solaray

calcium ascorbate powder) according to the directions in "How to Feel

Better and Live Longer" by Linus Pauling (Freeman, 1986).  The late Dr. 

Pauling was a medical biochemist who won two Nobel Prizes. 



If I had your condition I would take calcium ascorbate to bowel tolerance

and hold at that dose for several months to see if the viral count started

to decline or at least stabilized. If the count drops to minimal levels, I

would then reduce the daily C dose to the minimum amount which kept the

virus in check, because that is what animals who make their own vit C do

in response to a virus. 



If taking too much vit C which isn't being used (more than 2 grams daily

while not ill), anecdotal reports from me and others suggest that acid

insoluble kidney stones can result from loss of nocturnal urine

alkalinity.



To the extent that you can afford it, you should consider taking a general

range of the other life extension nutrients, vitamins, minerals, and amino

acids. Nutrients all work together. Other than cost, I don't know of any

reason why you shouldn't simultaneously pursue the suggestions made by the

other posters as well.  Exactly how you got better is a lot less important

than that you do so. 



I (and probably others on a.f.h.) would be very interested in how your

case responds, since hep C is a widespread problem. 



Hope this helps.



Sean

---



stephanie <stephanie1441@home.com> wrote in message

news:mZ0a7.58698$EP6.13916381@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...

> My viral count keeps climbing.  It is 30 million now, but my enzyme

> levels have stayed normal for 1 year now.  I contribute it to the 

> herbal extracts that I started around 1 year ago.

> What is the highest viral count anyone knows of, and what happens to my

> health as this continues to climb?

> Thanks

> sd 







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Gingko Question

From: "Kenneth Cooke" <kencooke@optushome.com.au>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 02:23:12 GMT

--------



"Peter H" <phh_jr1@msn.com> wrote in message

news:eb735075.0107302014.42ac525@posting.google.com...

> For those of you who have used Gingko and have gotten positive

> results, how long did it take before you really started to notice the

> effects? I have been taking Gingko for a few weeks and although it may

> be helping me somewhat, I really haven't noticed much of a difference.

>

> Peter



A few weeks is about average, and you may find that the effect will drop off

after a while. Like any herb, it has different effects for different people.



I f it's your circulatory system you want to stimulate, try ginger,

(assuming you haven't already)









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: nose bleeds

From: egr420@aol.com (Egr420)

Date: 02 Aug 2001 02:55:23 GMT

--------

>has anyone got any wisdom to share on the subject? something to

>> prevent them



Make sure he takes Vitamin C with BIOFLAVINOIDS and also Grapeseed is wonderful

for capillary walls.  Really helps those who easily bruise (or have varicose

veins) as well. 





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: nose bleeds

From: "M Kluga" <goonies@alphalink.com.au>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:52:18 +1000

--------

Styptic herbs are often used to stem bleeding.  A good one is Yarrow

(Achillea millefolia) which I use by taking a handful and bruising it quite

well and then packing the nostril with the bruised leaves.  This works

really well.  If you do not have yarrow available, common Italian parsley

used in the same manner also does the trick.



Regards

MK









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Mustard Seed

From: egr420@aol.com (Egr420)

Date: 02 Aug 2001 03:03:35 GMT

--------

I'm trying to find information on the folklore of mustard seed.  Any old wives'

tales out there?  I seem to remember that they bring in money - but can't find

anything to back it up.  I know there's the biblical story, and I even found a

Buddha story, but nothing to back up my family's 'belief' of putting them in

the doorway to bring money in.  Anyone ever hear of this??





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mustard Seed

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: 2 Aug 2001 11:20:31 GMT

--------

Egr420 <egr420@aol.com> wrote in article

<20010801230335.04344.00000797@mb-mh.aol.com>...

> I'm trying to find information on the folklore of mustard seed.  Any 

> old wives' tales out there?  I seem to remember that they bring in 

> money - but can't find anything to back it up.  I know there's the

biblical

> story, and I even found a Buddha story, but nothing to back up my 

> family's 'belief' of putting them in the doorway to bring money in.  

> Anyone ever hear of this??



The idea came to be because a mustard seed is very small and it grows into

a very large plant...abundance out of almost nothing.



Saskia

 -- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.  









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mustard Seed

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 4 Aug 2001 10:25:18 GMT

--------

>The idea came to be because a mustard seed is very small and it grows into

>a very large plant...abundance out of almost nothing.



>Saskia



I've seen a fair variety of seeds, including mustard seeds, and wouldn't

consider mustard seeds very small.  I thought portulaca seeds were very small

until I saw begonia seeds.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mustard Seed

From: Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 10:31:03 -0400

--------

On 4 Aug 2001 10:25:18 GMT, Thomas Mueller <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote:



>>The idea came to be because a mustard seed is very small and it grows into

>>a very large plant...abundance out of almost nothing.

>

>>Saskia

>

>I've seen a fair variety of seeds, including mustard seeds, and wouldn't

>consider mustard seeds very small.  I thought portulaca seeds were very small

>until I saw begonia seeds.



Except that one doesn't eat portulaca or begonias. One can eat purslane,

related to portulaca, and it may also have small seeds, but it may not have

been a food plant in the biblical times in the biblical areas.



Don <donwiss at panix.com>.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mustard Seed

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 6 Aug 2001 09:34:29 GMT

--------

>Except that one doesn't eat portulaca or begonias. One can eat purslane,

>related to portulaca, and it may also have small seeds, but it may not have

>been a food plant in the biblical times in the biblical areas.



>Don <donwiss at panix.com>.



Purslane is Portulaca oleracea.  Mustard is grown for the seeds used as a spice,

though there are mustards grown for greens.  Purslane would be harvested for the

leaves and stems.  People who eat purslane might eat the seeds, but not separate

from the leaves and stems.  Portulaca oleracea is a natural species, so it might

have been eaten by humans where it grows since thousands of years ago.



Of the seed foods and spices, poppy may be one of the smallest.  Sesame is also

small.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mustard Seed

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 6 Aug 2001 14:15:12 GMT

--------



> Of the seed foods and spices, poppy may be one of the smallest.  Sesame

> is also small.



Basil seed (takmario? anardana? I forget which is which) makes both of

them look HUGE.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mustard Seed

From: "Marigold" <LynnCaphidsBrown@mediaone.net>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:40:30 GMT

--------

According to "Cunningham's Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs" mustard seed is

used for protection.  It can be sprinkled on the door sill or buried under

the doorstep as a protective measure to prevent supernatural beings from

entering the home.  I've not heard of using it to bring in money, but some

of our old grannies knew that even the most doubting will do something to

bring in money while scoffing at protection spells.  Or maybe a family

member caught old granny doing this spell, and she explained it this way so

they would allow her to continue protecting her family.

Marigold



"Egr420" <egr420@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010801230335.04344.00000797@mb-mh.aol.com...

> I'm trying to find information on the folklore of mustard seed.  Any old

wives'

> tales out there?  I seem to remember that they bring in money - but can't

find

> anything to back it up.  I know there's the biblical story, and I even

found a

> Buddha story, but nothing to back up my family's 'belief' of putting them

in

> the doorway to bring money in.  Anyone ever hear of this??









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mustard Seed

From: "Segan" <brighid@dreamscape.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:59:50 -0400

--------

I don't know where there is a book reference but I know my mother-in-law

used to hang a little plastic packet of mustard seeds from the rear view

mirror in her car.  When I asked my husband why she does this (because she

doesn't believe in any of this stuff) he said because in Italy where my

mother-in-law was from it was a common belief that mustard seeds have

magickal properties dealing with the drawing of money to a person.



Peace

Segan



Egr420 <egr420@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010801230335.04344.00000797@mb-mh.aol.com...

> I'm trying to find information on the folklore of mustard seed.  Any old

wives'

> tales out there?  I seem to remember that they bring in money - but can't

find

> anything to back it up.  I know there's the biblical story, and I even

found a

> Buddha story, but nothing to back up my family's 'belief' of putting them

in

> the doorway to bring money in.  Anyone ever hear of this??









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Mustard Seed

From: "Michele Morrow" <mlmmorrow1@home.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:29:27 GMT

--------

To make a wishing bag of your own for a praticular objective, into a

drawstring pouch place one rabbit's foot, five new nails, nine mustard seed

and thirteen pennies. Anoint the bag with Mojo Oil and rub it between the

palms when you make your wish.



The Magical Uses of Herbs by Anna Riva







--

Michele Morrow



--

__________________________________________________

 -THIS CONCERNS YOU!  If you suffer from eye problems (i.e. floaters,

glaucoma, cataracts, nearsighted, farsighted, have considered eye surgery,

wear glasses or contact lenses!

mailto:seeclear2001@fastresponder.com

http://www.geocities.com/seeclear2001









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Vitex (angus-cactus)

From: "Nick" <hero.uk@mcmail.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:04:15 +0100

--------



whiteMemphis <loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message

news:3b66805c@news.alphalink.com.au...

>

> "Dave Creech" <dtcreech@advnet.net> wrote in message

> news:TO497.53996$aW5.718969@dfw-read.news.verio.net...

> > I have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrom (PCOS) and have been taking Vitex to

> > regulate my cycles, as well as control some of the other symptoms of

this.

> > My question is this;

> >

> > I am going to start taking Clomid (a fertility drug) and have heard that

> the

> > Vitex will cancel out the clomid, so I should not take them both at the

> same

> > time.  How long before taking the Clomid should I stop taking the vitex?

> >

> > I take 2 500mg capsules 1 in am, 1 in evening.

> >

> > Does anyone know the answer to this?

>

> > You should ask a professional about this Tammy

> >



but ask about Vitex agnus castus rather than angus cactus which I think is

some kind of Scottish prickly pear.



Nick









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Vitex (angus-cactus)

From: "whiteMemphis" <loom@alphalink.com.au>

Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:18:07 +1000

--------



".

> > > My question is this;

> > >

> > > I am going to start taking Clomid (a fertility drug) and have heard

that

> > the

> > > Vitex will cancel out the clomid, so I should not take them both at

the

> > same

> > > time.  How long before taking the Clomid should I stop taking the

vitex?

> > >

> > > I take 2 500mg capsules 1 in am, 1 in evening.

> > >

> > > Does anyone know the answer to this?

> >

> > > You should ask a professional about this Tammy

> > >

>

> but ask about Vitex agnus castus rather than angus cactus which I think is

> some kind of Scottish prickly pear.

>

 And don't be surprised if the doc gets a bit prickly, he/she may never even

have heard of it.

>This is a big problem when you need sound advice from the  medical

profession, all you can do is shop around til you find a doctor who is

sympathetic and open-minded to other treatment modalities, good luck  :-)

Vitex agnus castus is a progesterone inclined substance.  In ancient times

it was given to monks to subdue their libidos.  I have a tree of it in the

garden, it is quite beautiful, loaded with berries at the moment, and

although I would love to use it I have found that even a tiny bit makes me

quite sick.  wonder if that's how it worked for the monks??

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Vitex (angus-cactus)

From: "Kayla" <mintkay@yahoo[nospam].com>

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:46:06 GMT

--------

Hi!



There are two great groups at Yahoo that can help with this question.



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcoHOLISTIC



and



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PCONatural



Also, the Soul Cysters site can really help too.



http://www.soulcysters.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi



Hope this helps,



Kayla   =)





~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~



"Dave Creech" <dtcreech@advnet.net> wrote in message

news:TO497.53996$aW5.718969@dfw-read.news.verio.net...

> I have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrom (PCOS) and have been taking Vitex to

> regulate my cycles, as well as control some of the other symptoms of this.

> My question is this;

>

> I am going to start taking Clomid (a fertility drug) and have heard that

the

> Vitex will cancel out the clomid, so I should not take them both at the

same

> time.  How long before taking the Clomid should I stop taking the vitex?

>

> I take 2 500mg capsules 1 in am, 1 in evening.

>

> Does anyone know the answer to this?

>

> Thank you!

>

> ~Tammy

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Kava help

From: "Nick" <hero.uk@mcmail.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:08:35 +0100

--------



Daniel Sundqvist <daniel.sundqvist2@telia.com> wrote in message

news:3B5B9159.BBBF00BE@telia.com...

> Hi

>

> I recently received 1 pound of kava root i ordered from hawaii. Now i

> wonder what the best

> method to extract the kavalactones is. I have tried with at most 10

> tablespoons of root and simmer it (took it of when i couldnt have my

> finger in anymore, is this to long or to short?), and then ran it trough

> a strainerbag. (at most i strained it for 1.5h...) I may have been a

> litle relaxed, but could be placebo.

> So i wonder if the method were you run it in a mixer with oil and

> lech...? works much better so i can spend some money buying one. Or

> maybe 10 tablespoons is too litle?

>

> Thanks, Daniel

>



The kavalactones are poorly soluble in water which is why the trad use is to

smash it up in water to make a milky emulsion.



They are soluble in ethanol so make a tincture - this is the best way.  I

use ordinary vodka which doesn't work as well as Everclear, but I can't buy

that in the UK.



Nick









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Japanese Medicinal Plants

From: "Nick" <hero.uk@mcmail.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:13:40 +0100

--------



Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:qd3gltsh42rcuke5eghadmneb9f4gvao0j@4ax.com...

> "jesse glass" <ahadada@gol.com> wrote:

>

> >I'm looking for information on medicinal plants in Japan.  If anyone

could

> >offer information or refer me to articles or books, it would be

appreciated.

>

> The Japanese brand of TCM is kampo. Do a few searches for that. But know

that

> you'd need to know Japanese in order to get their quality texts - not very

much

> has been translated.

>

> I'm looking at "Color Encyclopedia of Medicinal Herbs

garblegarblegarblegarble

> 826 garblegarble" right now. It's a nice enough book, with color photos

for

> every single plant listed, but unfortunately it's in Japanese. 900 pages,

826

> plants, 5800 yen, Kazuo Izawa 1998. No, I don't know Japanese, it was a

gift

> from people who were simply _delighted_ at my pleased-sour expression when

I

> opened their package.

> Faugh! Trying to get me to learn Japanese! Well, okay, they did promise me

a

> "Nelson" (_The_ English-Japanese dictionary) if I wanted one ...

>

> Cheers

> Henriette (Currently, I've got about a quarter of my Japanese plant pics

online.

> It'll be close to half by the end of next week. The rest will follow

soonish.)

>



Hey H



"kore wa sakura des"  [this is the cherry blossom] - this will cover you for

most conversational Japanese requirements, I never leave home without it.



Nick











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Japanese Medicinal Plants

From: "Kayla" <mintkay@yahoo[nospam].com>

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:56:32 GMT

--------

Hi!



I just purchased a really good book called Kampo - How the Japanese Updated

Traditional Herbal Medicine by Akira Tsumura.  So far I'm really glad I did!



Also, here is a website that has some information including the FAQS about

Kampo (Japanese Herbal Medicine).



http://www.tsumura.co.jp/english/index.htm



Kayla





"jesse glass" <ahadada@gol.com> wrote in message

news:hWC57.2164$j04.278772@nnrp.gol.com...

> I'm looking for information on medicinal plants in Japan.  If anyone could

> offer information or refer me to articles or books, it would be

appreciated.

> Thanks! Jesse

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Japanese Medicinal Plants

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:59:51 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Since the zenith of quality in Japanese autos and audio, especially the

old Sony equipment, I have been in awe of Japanese product development

skills. I assume Kampo should have benefited as well. 



But Kampo is not cheap, or necessarily even cost effective. 



I read the web site's FAQ, and looked over the _Frequently-used Kampo

Extracts_ for things I might verify, and noticed "Sairei-to". I did

library research on Sairei-to several months ago in response to an a.f.h.

question. It is the equivalent of TCM/CHM "Chai Ling Tang", and may be an

effective substitute for steroid drugs such as prednisone.  This certainly

sounds useful given how endemic adrenal-function failure is. 



I followed up on availability and price. Web site availability was limited

at the time to mandarinherbs.com and www.botanicum.com who list

decocted-extract granules for sale. In one of the few cases cited on the

web, 9 g/day of Sairei-to granules were prescribed

(<http://www.itppeople.com/articles/sairei-to.htm>). That worked out to

about $80 per month.



Synthesized natural hydrocortisone (= serum adrenal cortisol) or

semi-synthetic prednisone (less edema tendency than hydrocortisone) are a

fraction of the price of Sairei-to and every pharmacy has them in stock.

At about the same time as Sairei-to was offered for $80/month, I purchased

30 tablets of prescription hydrocortisone (20mg each) for $10. 



Yes, of course, the herb formula may have important advantages, but time

to access and price matter very much to most of us. 



Looks to me like having money but little access to cooperative docs would

be a reason to go the Kampo herbal route.





Something that the web site would have little reason to mention, is that

learning Kampo requires memorizing hundreds of formulas and the diseases

that each is good for. This method integrates well with allopathic

training, so that in Japan, Kampo is prescribed by MDs alongside with

pharma. 



For the average person, (or Chinese child), TCM/CHM is claimed easier to

learn since a much smaller number of herb formulas can be modified by the

practitioner to suit a particular client's symptom patterns and

conformation. The claimed advantage is that the TCM/CHM practitioner can

treat a wider range of body types, and also treat new chronic diseases

which have not yet been vetted by the Kampo system.





For those interested in having a go at making their own Sairei-to, I have

listed below the ingredients of Chai Ling Tang (Bupleurum & Hoelen) from

www.craneherb.com (who state that they don't have a supplier).



Sean

---



--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.craneherb.com/Products/Product0760

Chai Ling Tang (Bupleurum & Hoelen)



Ingredients

Pin-Yin English Percentage 

Chai Hu Bupleurum Root 15.47% 

Ze Xie Alisma Rhizome 12.52% 

Sheng Jiang Ginger Rhizome 9.39% 

Rou Gui Cinnamon Bark 9.39% 

Ban Xia Pinellia Rhizome 7.83% 

Bai Zhu Atractylodes Rhizome - white 7.83% 

Chi Fu Ling Poria (Red) 7.83% 

Zhu Ling Polyporus Sclerotium  7.83% 

Huang Qin Scutellaria Root 6.26% 

Ren Shen Ginseng Root - white 6.26% 

Gan Cao Licorice Root 6.26% 

Da Zao Jujube - red (Sour Seed) 3.13% 



Western Symptoms

Taste-Bitter 

Edema 

Stool-Diarrhea 

Cold-Common 

Gastroenteritis-Acute 

Nephritis 

Pyelonephritis-Acute 

Heat Stroke 

Chills-Alternating Fever 

Chest-Irritability 

Anorexia 



Chinese Symptoms

Water-Stagnant 

Spleen-Qi Deficient 

Tongue Symptoms

Coating-White 

Coating-Thin 

Pulse Symptoms

Wiry 



Contraindications

None Listed 



--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://mandarinherbs.com/abcform.htm

#31940 Bupleurum & Hoelen Combination Chai Ling Tang $32.95/100g granules

$22.95/50 g capsules 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.botanicum.com/englishac.html

#1910 Bupleurum & Hoelen Combination Chai Ling Tang $32.50

(extract-granules

100 gram containers) 

--------------------------------------------------------------------



Kayla <mintkay@yahoo[nospam].com> wrote in message

news:AgFb7.41327$LP2.2111127@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> I just purchased a really good book called Kampo - How the Japanese 

> Updated Traditional Herbal Medicine by Akira Tsumura.  So far I'm 

> really glad I did!

> Also, here is a website that has some information including the FAQS 

> about Kampo (Japanese Herbal Medicine).

> 

> http://www.tsumura.co.jp/english/index.htm

> 

> Kayla

>

> "jesse glass" <ahadada@gol.com> wrote in message

> news:hWC57.2164$j04.278772@nnrp.gol.com...

> > I'm looking for information on medicinal plants in Japan.  If 

> > anyone could offer information or refer me to articles or books, it 

> > would be appreciated.

> > Thanks! Jesse 









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Japanese Medicinal Plants

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:06:53 +0300

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:



>question. It is the equivalent of TCM/CHM "Chai Ling Tang", and may be an

>effective substitute for steroid drugs such as prednisone.  This certainly

>sounds useful given how endemic adrenal-function failure is. 



If your adrenals are exhausted the _first_ thing to do is to stop all caffeine

intake. Then do adaptogens. And vitamins. And no stress.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Anti-inflammatory herbs.

From: "Nick" <hero.uk@mcmail.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:18:13 +0100

--------



Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:tnqdlt0nrrecaf39cr1umo0babp366b1j7@4ax.com...

> "Nick" <hero.uk@mcmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >>   :)   Would you believe I have a sister Hsin Nho Nimh?

> >>

> >> Tsu Dho Nimh

> >

> >

> >Hey Tsu

> >

> >So I guess she'd have almost the opposite personality to my Irish mate,

Ant

> >O'Nim.

>

> Nick -

>   Is it you with the gay uncle ... Hom O'Nim ?

>

> and can we pull this thread any farther off topic and into bad

> taste territory?

>

>



lol, I think you got the last word in there Tsu  - where are all my

thesauruses and dictionaries when I need them!



Nick









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Neem for Cat Flu?

From: agent@news4u.co.uk

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:10:14 GMT

--------

Hi all,



My three cats have just been diagnosed with cat flu and my littlest

one has been diagnosed as a chronic carrier.  The main symptom is

conjunctivitis, with occasional bouts of the sneezy sniffles and mouth

ulcers.



I was wondering about using Neem to treat them, especially the

carrier.  I love my babies and I don't want them to suffer any more

than they have to.



Also, the gunk the vet gave me to put in their eyes seems to really

hurt.  I was wondering about using Eyebright instead.



Thanks!

Kat





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Neem for Cat Flu?

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 05:37:50 -0700

--------

agent@news4u.co.uk wrote:



>My three cats have just been diagnosed with cat flu and my littlest

>one has been diagnosed as a chronic carrier.  The main symptom is

>conjunctivitis, with occasional bouts of the sneezy sniffles and mouth

>ulcers.



>I was wondering about using Neem to treat them, especially the

>carrier.  I love my babies and I don't want them to suffer any more

>than they have to.



  Cats are a wierd species ... you can KILL them with things that

are harmless to human infants.  Don't play vet on your kitties

unless you have the cat's grave already dug and a hanky ready, or

are using something that has been solidly researched and you know

what to expect.  



>Also, the gunk the vet gave me to put in their eyes seems to really

>hurt.  I was wondering about using Eyebright instead.



  Use the gunk - many cats hate having their heads messed with,

and the confinement it takes to get the ointment in their eyes,

and would put up a fight if you were using saline drops. 



 "Eyebright" has the therapeutic value of Visine. It's OK for

irrtitation, but not much against viruses or bacteria. 

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Neem for Cat Flu?

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:02:36 GMT

--------





agent@news4u.co.uk wrote:



> Hi all,

>

> My three cats have just been diagnosed with cat flu and my littlest

> one has been diagnosed as a chronic carrier.  The main symptom is

> conjunctivitis, with occasional bouts of the sneezy sniffles and mouth

> ulcers.

>

> I was wondering about using Neem to treat them, especially the

> carrier.  I love my babies and I don't want them to suffer any more

> than they have to.

>

> Also, the gunk the vet gave me to put in their eyes seems to really

> hurt.  I was wondering about using Eyebright instead.Thanks!Kat



Poor little kitties.  Perhaps a decoction of oregano leaves could be

chilled, filtered and used on Q-tip type applicators to sponge off the

corners of their eyes( an external application) and at least remove the

outside exudate.   But drops and/or ointment should be supplied by a

veterinarian.



Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: seek remedy wart

From: roseann1120@yahoo.com (roseann)

Date: 2 Aug 2001 06:37:05 -0700

--------

Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3B66E1F3.AAB1B19C@zoom.co.uk>...

> Best remedy I know is Thuja tinture (not homeoathic mother tincture

> tho), apply 3*a day until the wart goes

> 

> Julia

> 

> roseann wrote:

> 

> > I have small wart on my finger. Seek remedy to banish. Thanks.



Thanks for response for wart RX. Using tea tree oil & clove oil.

Helping already. Thanks.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anti-aphrodisiac herbs ?

From: bo <lofasz@shedgabay.com>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:28:36 -0500

--------

OK... I am interested in whether the recently touted Arginmax works as

a libido enhancer for women.... any users care to comment?







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: alzheimers question

From: "Lucky" <luckyno@email.net>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:06:46 -0700

--------

Hi, does anyone know how fast Alzheimer's progresses from the diagnosis to

when the patient isn't able to function anymore?

I know someone who has it and he still DRIVES!! I consider this very

dangerous!

Thanks for any information.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alzheimers question

From: cyli@tiny.net

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:12:53 -0500

--------

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:06:46 -0700, "Lucky" <luckyno@email.net> wrote:



>Hi, does anyone know how fast Alzheimer's progresses from the diagnosis to

>when the patient isn't able to function anymore?

>I know someone who has it and he still DRIVES!! I consider this very

>dangerous!

>Thanks for any information.



Inform the state driver's license bureau.  Many states will check out

people who are reported and will retest them or require that their

doctors certify them as able to driver.



For the first part, it varies.  Takes some forever to have to be kept

in bed, some deteriorate more rapidly.

---

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alzheimers question

From: leeco11@aol.com (LeeCo11)

Date: 04 Aug 2001 00:04:50 GMT

--------

>Hi, does anyone know how fast Alzheimer's progresses from the diagnosis to

>when the patient isn't able to function anymore?



It depends on how far it has progressed when diagnosed.  They have some new

medicines on the market now that will help stop the progress.  It also depends

on the individual.  I have known some that have lasted a year and some that are

still alive after 10 years.  Awareness varies with the individual also.



 >I know someone who has it and he still DRIVES!! I consider this very

>dangerous!

>Thanks for any information.



If they are related and you see their awareness is not what it should be you

should take the keys away for both their sakes and the sake of other drivers.  



Better to act sooner while they are still rational.  



Hope all works out well.

lee





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alzheimers question

From: "Marigold" <LynnCaphidsBrown@mediaone.net>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 05:47:54 GMT

--------

Hate to break it to you, but you can't just take keys away from someone!

Having a disease does not strip people of their fundamental rights.  The

only way you have the right to do anything like that is if the person has

been declared incompetent by a court and you have been assigned by that

court as that person's legal guardian.  If you feel that someone is

endangering him/herself or others, you can report it to Adult Protective

Services or the equivalent agency in your state.  APS will investigate your

allegation to determine if the person needs to be examined for competency.



Have you actually seen this person driving erratically, or are you making an

assumption?  The state won't take someone's license without cause, which

usually means they have to have gotten at least a few tickets or caused an

accident.  Again, having a disease is not cause for removal of rights or

privileges.  Too bad, really - I know a few drunks whom I would love to see

out from behind the wheel, but since they haven't been caught driving drunk,

their licenses can't be taken.  Same principle - it's called equal

protection under the law.

Marigold - hopping off the soapbox.



"LeeCo11" <leeco11@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010803200450.29962.00002709@ng-ci1.aol.com...

> >Hi, does anyone know how fast Alzheimer's progresses from the diagnosis

to

> >when the patient isn't able to function anymore?

>

> It depends on how far it has progressed when diagnosed.  They have some

new

> medicines on the market now that will help stop the progress.  It also

depends

> on the individual.  I have known some that have lasted a year and some

that are

> still alive after 10 years.  Awareness varies with the individual also.

>

>  >I know someone who has it and he still DRIVES!! I consider this very

> >dangerous!

> >Thanks for any information.

>

> If they are related and you see their awareness is not what it should be

you

> should take the keys away for both their sakes and the sake of other

drivers.

>

> Better to act sooner while they are still rational.

>

> Hope all works out well.

> lee









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alzheimers question

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:33:11 -0700

--------

"Marigold" <LynnCaphidsBrown@mediaone.net> wrote:



>Hate to break it to you, but you can't just take keys away from someone!

>Having a disease does not strip people of their fundamental rights.  The

>only way you have the right to do anything like that is if the person has

>been declared incompetent by a court and you have been assigned by that

>court as that person's legal guardian.  



Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a right, and if they are a hazard to

others, the safety of the others is paramount.  You wouldn't balk

if they had said this person regularly got drunk and drove ...

impairment is impairment. 



In the short term, taking the keys or creating a temporary

problem in the car is the best solution.  Followed immediately by

reporting the driver to the state bureau in charge of driver's

licenses for a retest so the situation is permanently taken care

of.  



>Have you actually seen this person driving erratically, or are you making an

>assumption?  The state won't take someone's license without cause, which

>usually means they have to have gotten at least a few tickets or caused an

>accident.  



  In most states, you can merely say: I think this person needs a

retest because I have seen them doing _________, and these

reports can be anonymous.  



Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alzheimers question

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 4 Aug 2001 11:10:47 GMT

--------



>> Hi, does anyone know how fast Alzheimer's progresses from the diagnosis

>> to when the patient isn't able to function anymore?

> It depends on how far it has progressed when diagnosed.



And what kind of dementia they've got - you can't diagnose Alzheimer's

definitively without a brain biopsy (not usually done while the patient

is alive).  There are other dementias with similar symptoms.



I've seen a dementia patient go from disoriented-but-fully-verbal-and-

mobile to bedridden to comatose to dead in three weeks.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Brahmi

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:02:20 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Maria Kluga <goonies@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message

news:3b6656bc@news.alphalink.com.au...

> I am looking for some information on Brahmi, a Hindi herb, which 

> is believed to be useful in the treatment of dyslexia.  Any ideas, 

> experience with this herb, would like to hear from you.

> TIA

> Maria



I could not find out who believes this. If you know, please tell us.



Will the real brahmi please stand up?



I found "brahmi" herb pointers to all of these names: Herpestis Monniera

(brahmi #1), Bacopa Monnieri (brahmi #2), Centella asiatica (Gotu-Kola), 

http://www.mapi.com/ayurvedicherbs/brahmi.html

and maybe even Curcuma <whatever> (Turmeric)

http://www.herbmed.org/herbs/curcuma.htm#folk

though this reference very vague and unclear.



Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> 

wrote in "Bacopin repairs brain neurons?" thread, in message 

news:nq6mlt45j1e1g4o1lqkmd9p60jpavr66r6@4ax.com...

> Bacopa monniera .... seems to be the latest cure-all. I found

> more citations from vendors than researchers.  It appears to be

> an Ayurvedic remedy ...



Mapi.com is the vendor site of Maharishi Ayurveda Products. 

They state: 

"Two main herbs go by the name of Brahmi in the ancient Ayurvedic texts.

Some experts, such as Vaidya R. K. Mishra, feel that Herpestis Monniera is

more authentic and is preferable for mental benefits except where urinary

flow, purification, and immunomodulation is desired by the physician. The

other herb that commonly goes by this name is more popularly known in the

U.S. as Gotu-Kola, or Centella asiatica. When the texts specify Gotu-kola

without the option of substitution, it is called Mandukaparni. So we

always identify Brahmi as Herpestis Monniera in our herbal formulations."



Mapi.com does not mention dyslexia, although they mention a coordination

of comprehension (Dhi), memory (Dhriti) and recollection (Smriti).

Dyslexia may involve a failure of coordinating functions in the

cerebellum.  I found "dyslexia" mentioned in another vendor's laundry list

of brain troubles brahmi might be good for, but that's really vague. 



I could find only one reference to bacopa/brahmi in the Entrez-PubMed

database and that was about gastric ulcers in rats. There were references

to Herpestis Monniera from 1967-69 by Ganguly DK, Malhotra CL, but no

abstract. I also found (somewhere): Y. B. Tripathi, et al "Bacopa monniera

Linn. As an antioxidant: mechanism of action", Indian J. Exp. Biol.

(1996), 34(6), 523-526



There are pharma and herb treatments which attempt to increase blood

supply to the brain through vasodilation and stimulation (e.g., ginko and

gotu kola). This is usually done to improve memory. I have not seen

evidence that dyslexia is specifically a memory problem. I found one

vendor who had added brahmi to a ginko and gotu kola formulation, (but

which brahmi for sure?). 





Dr. Harold Levinson, a pioneer in the biochemical treatment of dyslexic

syndromes includes a modest list of bio treatments in Appendix A of "Smart

But Feeling Dumb" (Warner 1984,1994). These include B vitamins, OTC

anti-histamines, anti-motion sickness drugs, pharma stimulants, and ginger

root (ginger has anti-motion sickness properties). 



If "brahmi" actions happened to fit into one of Dr. L's catagories, I

would be more interested, but I'm not expecting that I will learn this any

time soon, if ever. 





Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Brahmi

From: "Teresa Mannix" <author@virtuallyyours.com.au>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:03:15 +1000

--------

I am growing both Brahmi and Gotu Kola (which is sometimes confused with it)

in my herb garden. Gotu Kola is, I believe, otherwise known as Pennywort. I

believe both have been proven in clinical trials to improve brain function

and circulation, in a similar fashion to Ginko Biloba. I have never seen any

reference to dyslexia.



Both are very easy to grow. I eat three leaves a day of the Gotu Kola (any

more can be harmful) and 10cm of Brahmi. It sure beats buying expensive

bottles in health food shops. I have definitely noticed an improvement in my

concentration.



Teresa





"Maria Kluga" <goonies@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message

news:3b6656bc@news.alphalink.com.au...

> I am looking for some information on Brahmi, a Hindi herb, which is

believed

> to be useful in the treatment of dyslexia.  Any ideas, experience with

this

> herb, would like to hear from you.

>

> TIA

> Maria

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Brahmi

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 6 Aug 2001 09:34:30 GMT

--------

>Both are very easy to grow. I eat three leaves a day of the Gotu Kola (any

>more can be harmful) and 10cm of Brahmi. It sure beats buying expensive

>bottles in health food shops. I have definitely noticed an improvement in my

>concentration.



>Teresa



How does one know how many Gotu Kola leaves to take?  Does Gotu Kola require a

tropical climate?  Brahmi is not nearly so well-known as Gotu Kola.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Brahmi

From: Alan Pollock <nexus@king.cts.com>

Date: 06 Aug 2001 16:13:36 GMT

--------

Teresa Mannix <author@virtuallyyours.com.au> wrote:



> Both are very easy to grow. I eat three leaves a day of the Gotu Kola (any

> more can be harmful) and 10cm of Brahmi. It sure beats buying expensive

> bottles in health food shops. I have definitely noticed an improvement in my

> concentration.





How can more than 3 leaves be harmful, and about how many mgs would that be?



I've always read that taking too much Gotu Kola only changes its effects to

that of a sedative. Nex





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic for prostate infection

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 17:03:32 GMT

--------

On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:14:49 +0100, "rajinder.nijjhar" 



>Could someone tell me the maximum amount of Garlic that you can eat without

>causing any harm to stomach as the Garlic is hot in nature?

>

>I would also be glad to hear of similar experiences from other people and

>any suggestions.



Hi, Rajinder,



I really can't address the issue of using garlic for prostate cancer

etc. but what you writes suggests other possibilites.  Perhaps all the

antibiotics are now causing secondary fungal infections, in which case

the antibiotics are now causing a new set of problems of their own.

Antibiotics kill bacteria and by killing the good bacteria along with

the bad, allow yeast to proiferate.



Having said all that taking garlic might help with both problems as it

is antifungal, antibacteral, and anti parisitical.  Taking some

probiotics might also help as well.



Now, the question of how much garlic you can take without it causing

harm to the stomach can be bypassed. The recipie below can help with

that. However, it will not reduce garlic's "heating effects" in many

times aggrevating other hot (inflammatory) conditions like arthritis,

etc. so in that sense caution might still be in order.



At any rate here is a recipie found in Paul Bergner's book entitled

"The Healing Power of Garlic" which he calls A Garlic Cocktail that he

claims will not upset your stomach.  II can personally attest to the

fact that I have tried it and I would concurr with his opinion.

However I alter the recipie to substitute  1/4 water for the vinegar

and wine and add 3/4 teaspoon ascorbic acid crystals for the

"tang"/acidity lost by their elimation.  I am ferment intolerant and

plus I do NOT think vinegar and wine are good to use in yeast

infections, contrary to some popular opinons



This is a double recipie



6 cloves raw garlic, peeled

2 Tablespoons red wine

2 Tablespoons vinegar

2 Tablespoons olive oil



Blend well in a blender.  Add 1/2 cup hot water. Let stand 3-6 hours

(I prefer a minimum of 4)  Do not strain.  To take a dose,  stir the

mixture well, and add 1/6 of this (about 2 1/3 tablespoons) to a cup

of hot water. Take another dose every 3-6 hours.



Mixture must be made fresh daily as the allicin is broken done

completely and gone in about a day.



This tastes a bit like drinking salad dressing. Quite tasty actually,

and it does not upset your stomach.



If I attempt to eat raw garlic, it burns a hole in my stomach and I am

so nausiated that I throw it up before it can really do any good. But

I tolerate this cocktail just fine.



Hope this helps.

LindaN

>

>Rajinder Nijjhar

>Indian

>







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic for prostate infection

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:53:21 GMT

--------

On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 17:03:32 GMT, Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

wrote:



>However I alter the recipie to substitute  1/4 water for the vinegar

>and wine and add 3/4 teaspoon ascorbic acid crystals for the

>"tang"/acidity lost by their elimation.





That should read:

"However I alter the recipie to substitute  1/4 CUP

water for the vinegar and wine and add 3/4 teaspoon ascorbic acid

crystals for the "tang"/acidity lost by their elimination."



Sorry,

Linda N





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic for prostate infection

From: Alan Pollock <nexus@king.cts.com>

Date: 05 Aug 2001 01:34:01 GMT

--------





There'a a newsgroup for prostatitis, which is probably what you folks are 

describing.



sci.med.prostate.prostatitis has loads of useful info, anecdotal and 

otherwise.



Quercetin is something to try by the way. It worked wonders for me. Nex





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Adaptogenic herbs

From: "Guy Platt" <guy@getskilz.com>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 01:16:29 GMT

--------

Hi,



The latest golf magazine has an article on Stress Busters where they list

Adaptogenic herbs as being one methods of lowering stress and tension. They

list a few herbs that are Adaptogenic (Panax Ginseng, Ashwadandha, St John's

Wort, Lemon Balm, etc).



 I was wondering if there are any commercial adaptogenic herb mixtures made

up specifically for stress, or whether I should just experiment with the

above herbs? I'd like something good for golf, but also something that I

could take when speaking to a large audience.



Any suggestions appreciated.



thanks

  A. Guy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Adaptogenic herbs

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 06:51:31 -0400 (EDT)

--------

(long second section)



1) I suggest that you avoid using St. John's Wort routinely when you will

be exposed to sunlight. It is now documented to my satisfaction that some

(not all) St. John's wort extracts which contain a certain component,

probably the red dye in the oil, will greatly increase the absorbtion of

burning ultraviolet light. Since UV is the fundamental cause of most skin

cancers, it makes no sense to use that component unless one will be

inside. Note that there are conditions that might benefit from increased

UV, say bacterial infections in wounds, or warts where there is a virus to

be killed.



2) Panax Ginseng can be very useful if you are "feeling your age". It

apparently works by boosting one or more hormones.  About 10% of users can

get unsafely high blood pressure from ginseng, so if you decide to do

this, I suggest that you get a home BP tester (the finger type looks easy

to use). However, ginseng might possibly raise your anxiety level, so

maybe it's not right for your conformation (see below).



3) Public speaking anxiety reportedly responds to 40 mg (two 20 mg blue

tablets) of the beta-blocker propranolol an hour before the speech. I

tried it and was surprised by how well it worked. This is a drug which was

formerly used by Olympic rifle shooters to steady their aim. Propranolol

is normally and safely consumed in large daily quantities by people with

high blood pressure. It's not habit-forming. I can't imagine your doc

saying no to such a trivial and occasional use. 

	Kava herb may be a herbal alternative, reportedly somewhat more

Valium-like rather than propranolol-like. The main problem with Kava is

that it requires large doses; IIRC, in the 300 mg range. The whole herb

tastes yucky, so only kavalactone extract pills/caps really make sense.

The liquid kava extracts are mostly too weak to work, and contain way too

much alcohol. You would need to determine in advance if kava made you too

spacey to speak well.

	Don't golf courses typically have a masseur available on site (or

nearby in case of public links)? You might benefit greatly from regular

theraputic massage; many businessmen do. 

	Should you determine in advance your proper kava dose, a

combination of kava and massage might be excellent provided that you can

avoid driving afterward. 



	Hot tubbing at home is another excellent tension stress reduction

idea. But don't take any drugs/alcohol or herbs until after you get out of

the tub. There have been a number of unfortunate deaths from this type of

combination, mostly in people who had either known or unknown heart

trouble, I think. 



------

If you are interested in details about herbal theory and practice, please

read on. Otherwise that's my response to your direct questions. Perhaps

other a.f.h. folks have knowledge of the other adaptogens you mentioned.



Hope this helps.   :)

------



Having "stress" is a popularization. Stress is normal and life is

stressful by nature. Technically, the problems result from "strain" which

is undesireable response to stress. Strain typically results from an

insufficient margin of strength or endurance, while undergoing stressful

activities. Among genetically normal individuals (technically those within

plus or minus 1 standard deviation from average), strength and endurance

can be increased through nutrition and exercise. You as a well-informed

sportsman probably already know this in reasonable detail. 



I'm guessing that you have been reading popular magazine articles

concerning the use of herbs for athletic performance enhancement. I don't

object to such journalism since everyone must begin somewhere, but by

analogy, I bet you can remember beginners articles on playing

golf/computing/whatever that left out important info or even gave obsolete

advice. Popular herbalism is no different.

	Three important things that inexpert writers often leave out about

herbs are: 

	1) Herbs are best chosen based on your personal "conformation".

	2) The drug model of healing applies only to very potent herbs. 

	3) Herbs work better in combinations or formulas.



1) Conformation means the kind of body that you have, and its current

state of balance of heat, moisture and pH (among other things). Example:

if your conformation is cool, you probably need warm herbs, and

vise-versa.

	I like the questionaires for Ayurvedic body type: kapha (large,

heavy, fat); pitta (florid, overheated, short-tempered); vata (tall or

short, skinny, frail). Everyone is some mixture of all three, but usually

one type will predominate. I suggest combining at least two different

questionaires for a more complete analysis. Since there are not the same

number of questions in each body type questionaire, you will need to do a

little math to properly weight the value of each question in contribution

to the final three percentages. (But being into golf, I'm guessing that

you are a business dude who will find this to be a cinch.) 

	The Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM/CHM) system determines

conformation by asking "Do you like/dislike heaters or coolers? Do you

like/dislike humidity/fluids or dryness (and related questions like

fondness for sweets)?  pH is determined by your like/dislike of sour foods

or bland foods, sour belching, or even low tech measures of urine ph

during the day and the night (yes, you can do this yourself with

multi-color pH paper: day should be acid, night should be alkaline).



2) Most USA citizens grew up with drugs contained in small pills

accompanied by a variety of warnings about overdose and side effects, plus

occasional recalls. Some herbs like foxglove/digitalis and belladonna are

potent and do act like drugs, but they are infrequently used. Potent and

therefore poisonous herbs are typically used in cases where they are

justified by severe organ imbalance, such as congestive heart failure

(foxglove leaves) and migraine (ergot of rye). Treatment of such cases is

usually left to allopaths who are licensed to administer precise doses of

drug poisons to the sick. 

	The culinary model makes more sense for most herbs.  No one doubts

that onions have strong physiological effects. Everyone knows that some

people can't eat raw onions, while others love them. Everyone also knows

that a capsule full of raw onions would be almost unnoticed by most

people, including many of those who "can't eat raw onions". Most herbs are

food-like and are eaten in food quantities, with due respect for the

nature of each. One warns children about onions, peppers, and mustards,

but mishaps are not expected to be life-threatening.

	The problem is that most herbs used for healing are not potent,

yet because they are packaged in pill-size capsules, uninformed doctors

and consumers think they should act like drugs. This means that doctors

tell scare stories about herbs, and consumers are disappointed when they

take herb capsules, yet nothing happens. And then pharma companies try to

stir up regulatory action based on both fear and consumer fraud, with the

intent of persuading people to buy only pharmaceutical$. 

	Then there is the scientific incidental punishment. Pharma

companies generate a constant PR demand that herbs be double-blind tested

for effectiveness before any claim can be made for efficacy. The problem

is that double-blind tests are designed for drugs, which typically act in

isolation to block some physiological action (e.g., ergotism blocks limb

circulation). This means that any vitamin or herb which acts by

cooperative enhancement of metabolism (e.g., B-vitamin antioxidants), may

well fail a double-blind test precisely because they must be tested in

isolation from their normal co-nutrients. 



3) Most herbs have a conformation which is -not- exactly right to

counterbalance a typical human problem. For example, hot herbs tend to be

drying, so a sweet moistening herb may be an appropriate formula mate. 

	European herbalism tends to focus a lot on the effects of single

herbs. My opinion as to the reason for this is that Europe has been

generally impoverished for hundreds of years and poor people have little

other choice, since formulas tend to be more expensive.

	I'm guessing that if you can afford to play golf, you can and

should use formulas, rather than single herbs. 

	There are indeed European formulas, and since you can easily

obtain bulk European herbs, this is probably a good place to begin.

However, if you want the benefit of 4000 to 5000 years of formula

development, I suggest that you continue by learning the Asian TCM/CHM

system.

	Can you learn to choose formulas yourself? Certainly you can.

Every Asian family teaches their children to do this. If you learn it, you

can then teach your children, and I personally would consider it to be a

valuable gift to your family. 

	On the other hand, the time commitment is substantial, say, the

equivalent of two years of study at your convenience. It's getting easier,

but some elements of the herbal studies are utterly arcane. This is due to

a combination of unlearning old European nonsense (doctrine of

signatures), and trying to translate the Chinese system of physiology into

Western biomedicine. There is strong evidence that the Chinese system is

(mostly) rational, but it tends to take a long time for Westerners to

grasp it without leaning on ancient superstitious explanations (five phase

theory).

	Your other option is to study the basics, and then see several

different practioners in the Chinatown of some big city. Ask them to write

down your TCM diagnosis and the formulas they recommend. Don't press if

they seem unwilling to do this, since they might be worried that you are

investigating them. Otherwise, just write down what they tell you

phonetically, and get an expert to help you translate it later. Since not

all TCM practitioners are equally knowledgeable, (about formulas to help

win at sports), I suggest that you could combine the common elements of

their formula advice based on your previous basic TCM/CHM study. 



The formulas themselves are best purchased from the web as dried tea

formula granules, which work just like instant coffee. Don't use any

formula which contains heavy metals; they are obsolete. IIRC, "Dragon

bone" is probably dolomite rock, and can be easily substituted by

calcium-magnesium tablets from the health food store; a lot of

mined natural dolomite rock tends to have some lead traces in it.



For just the basics of TCM/CHM, I recommend:



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0941942309/qid=996830216/sr=1-4/ref=sc_b_4/103-9404960-6818225

Chinese Herbal Therapy : A Guide to Its Principles and Practice

by Takahide Kuwaki, James Varner (Editor)

Amazon Price: $19.95

Availability: This title usually ships within 4-6 weeks. 



Sean

---



Guy Platt <guy@getskilz.com> wrote in message

news:NXma7.24638$Kd7.15118120@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...

> The latest golf magazine has an article on Stress Busters where they

list

> Adaptogenic herbs as being one methods of lowering stress and tension.

They

> list a few herbs that are Adaptogenic (Panax Ginseng, Ashwadandha, St 

> John's Wort, Lemon Balm, etc).

>  I was wondering if there are any commercial adaptogenic herb mixtures

made

> up specifically for stress, or whether I should just experiment with the

> above herbs? I'd like something good for golf, but also something that I

> could take when speaking to a large audience.

> 

> Any suggestions appreciated.

> 

> thanks

>   A. Guy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Adaptogenic herbs

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 4 Aug 2001 11:26:43 GMT

--------



>> I was wondering if there are any commercial adaptogenic herb mixtures

>> made up specifically for stress, or whether I should just experiment

>> with the above herbs? I'd like something good for golf, but also

>> something that I could take when speaking to a large audience.



If golf is stressful, why are you doing it?





> 3) Public speaking anxiety reportedly responds to 40 mg (two 20 mg blue

> tablets) of the beta-blocker propranolol an hour before the speech. I

> tried it and was surprised by how well it worked. This is a drug which was

> formerly used by Olympic rifle shooters to steady their aim. Propranolol

> is normally and safely consumed in large daily quantities by people with

> high blood pressure. It's not habit-forming. I can't imagine your doc

> saying no to such a trivial and occasional use.



Propranolol can kill you if you've got asthma or are taking heart drugs;

other side-effects may include depression and impotence.  It has a long

and surprising list of severe interactions with other drugs (including

most of those likely to be prescribed to golfers, i.e. middle-aged men

with diseases of affluence).



In my experience the best countermeasure for public-speaking anxiety

is being properly prepared (which for me sometimes means having both

a script and a brain-pattern outline to let me improvise outside the

script as needed).



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Adaptogenic herbs

From: Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:00:50 +0100

--------

> In my experience the best countermeasure for public-speaking anxiety

> is being properly prepared (which for me sometimes means having both

> a script and a brain-pattern outline to let me improvise outside the

> script as needed).



another useful hint is to have your notes on card not paper - so if your hands

shake, the pages don't rattle!



I'd have a Lavender and Chamomile bath the night before you're due to speak, to

help you sleep.



Julia



'stress is excitement unsupported by breathing'







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: seeds

From: haagen.dad@verizon.net

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:00:28 GMT

--------

Hi Martin,



Try Thompson-morgan.com  they have what you are looking for!

Nancy



Martin Clarke wrote:



> Does anyone know a good place to purchase seeds for flowers such as camomile

> etc.

>

> I would like to grow some in my garden.

>

> Martin



--

Nancy & Jeff Bloom

Newtown, PA.



e-mail: haagen.dad@verizon.net









==========

Newsgroups: alt.drugs.caffeine,alt.drugs.melatonin,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.forsale.nutrition,alt.health

Subject: Adrenal and Melatonin Results

From: Scout <scout2001@mailandnews.com>

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 22:32:20 -0400

--------

I AM ABSOLUTELY EXHAUSTED ALL THE TIME!   



I have received my GreatSmokies saliva results on Adrenal and

Meltaoninthey seem to be quite logical for the way I am feeling.



My 8A DHEA was VERY low at 0.652.   The range is 0.8 to 4.5

My Cortisol was NORMAL at 8AM 12 Noon, 4PM, and MIDNIGHT.

My DHEA/Cortisol was LOW at 0.08   The range is 0.10 to 0.70

Melatonin was LOW in evening AND at midnight.<1.5



This explains why my circadian rhythm causes me to sleep during the

day and be awake at night.yich!  



I have started melatonin 1mg sustained AND will try 1 mg

immediate-action.  Should I start the sustained tablet a few hours

before bed?



I will start taking 7-keto DHEA.  I am considering compounding a gel

at 10mg/2cc.  What do you think?  Since I have liver and malabsorption

problems and propensity to prostate canceris this the way to go?  



I would like some books, web sites, and suggestions for treating the

adrenal and melatonin problem.



Other related info:  



MY BODY IS TOO HI IN:    Mercury Toxicity, Bilirubin, Bile, Album/Glob

Ratio,  ,SGPT, Triglycerides,  LDL, Cholest Ratio, T suppressor cells,

Stomach Acidity, 

 

MY BODY IS TOO LOW IN: , DHEA, Melatonin at night, Overall Glucose,

UnderArm Temperature averages 96.3,

Chromium,Magnesium,Manganese,Thyroid, Globulin, Blood Pressure, Serum

Chloride, Hypoxia/hypoperfusion using SPECT brain scan.

    

MY THYROID PANEL IS CLOSE TO NORMAL:  TSH 1.5 (0.5-5.5); Total  T4=6.7

(4.5-11.1),  Free T4=1.9  (1.4-3.0).   T3 Uptake 28.8  (22-36).  T3

Reverse is 11 (10-24).   T3 Total is 156 (60-181).   Free T3 is 362

(230-420).    Thyroglobulin Antibodies OK

Thyroid Peroxidase Antiboides OK Adrenal Antibody OK	. 



ANY HELP would be appreciated.  



Since my PDA can not access newsgroups, please Email to

scout2001@mailandnews.com











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Adrenal and Melatonin Results

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 20:13:59 +0300

--------

Scout <scout2001@mailandnews.com> wrote:



>I AM ABSOLUTELY EXHAUSTED ALL THE TIME!   



SO HOW HIGH IS YOUR DAILY CAFFEINE INTAKE?



Stop it all. That is coffee, guarana, mate, tea, cola drinks ... the lot.

Exercise daily (at least 30 minutes/day).

Keep your room quiet and dark during the night.

Don't do anything in bed but sleep (and sex).



Report back here in a few weeks.



And go to http://groups.google.com for usenet access.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Headaches

From: tizytabs@aol.com (TeRaBiTHia)

Date: 03 Aug 2001 05:35:35 GMT

--------

i've always taken *feverfew* for headaches... just don't take too much or

you'll become rather tranquilized or *high*... if it has directions with it,

follow them

BB

*terabithia*





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Headaches

From: d <sweetgrass@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:45:23 GMT

--------

You might try chamomile/peppermint tea (try the loose tea and a tea

strainer ... it tastes much better and I cant help but believe its more

potent).  Chamomile tends to relax one, and peppermint soothes the

stomach.  Another possibility is willow bark ... it contains an ingredient

upon which aspirin's synthetic composition is based upon  .... I am not

sure about whether it matters if its white willow bark or red.  You might

check the FAQ for herbal uses that Henrietta posts here periodically, or

check any number of herbal books ... go to your local store or library that

carries books and check the index for headaches.



I also use lavender oil from time to time (if I remember) ...  I rub a

little into my temples or above or over my eyebrows, as well as a little

beneath my nose for a aromotheraputic boost :).



But, truth be told, if the headache is severe, or I'm busy/in a hurry, I

reach for the excedrin ...



for what its worth,

d



THECHILLIS wrote:



> Hi,

> Can anyone reccomend a herbal remedy for headaches, as an alternative to

> paracetomol etc.

> Regards,

> Doug







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Headaches

From: M. Meister <mmeister@sprintmail.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:13:24 GMT

--------

tizytabs@aol.com (TeRaBiTHia) wrote:



>i've always taken *feverfew* for headaches... just don't take too much or

>you'll become rather tranquilized or *high*... if it has directions with it,

>follow them

>BB

>*terabithia*



Sorry to intrude ; ) I lurk here. 

I read (maybe on this group) a few years ago about studies saying that

Fever few caused smooth muscle damage that was irreversible. Just

because it's an herb doesn't mean it is not harmful! Some have

reported constipation with use of fever few but it's not the stool,

it's the peristaltic action of the intestine which becomes the

problem.



maggie







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Headaches

From: "Chip Orange" <corange@psc.state.fl.us>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:59:44 -0400

--------

Any links or references I can investigate on the possible smooth muscle

damage from feverfew?  I've got a weird swallowing condition now (after

years of taking feverfew to prevent migraines) and am wondering if my

swallowing problems could possibly be related?



TIA,



Chip





"M. Meister" <mmeister@sprintmail.com> wrote in message

news:lu25ot8hia5n4rel9ujves69jt984ik1o8@4ax.com...

> tizytabs@aol.com (TeRaBiTHia) wrote:

>

> >i've always taken *feverfew* for headaches... just don't take too much or

> >you'll become rather tranquilized or *high*... if it has directions with

it,

> >follow them

> >BB

> >*terabithia*

>

> Sorry to intrude ; ) I lurk here.

> I read (maybe on this group) a few years ago about studies saying that

> Fever few caused smooth muscle damage that was irreversible. Just

> because it's an herb doesn't mean it is not harmful! Some have

> reported constipation with use of fever few but it's not the stool,

> it's the peristaltic action of the intestine which becomes the

> problem.

>

> maggie

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: edema while on computer for a long time

From: graywolf@texas.net (Michelle L. Orlando)

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:05:05 GMT

--------

Will try again--my hobbie is genealogy and I will spend a long time

sitting at the computer searching for family histories, etc. and I

find I am getting edema (not much) on the top of my hand and leg. I

keep my leg sometimes on a stool, but mostly not. I have been using

Dandelion herbs from the health food store 3 caps and taking Vitamin

B. Also, trying to drink lots of water. 



Anyone have any info or herbs to recommend? I do have asthma that I

must take prescription sprays 2 x's a day for it, one is a steroid

spray. 



Appreciate any info and herbs to take.



Michelle





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: edema while on computer for a long time

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 03:43:06 -0700

--------

graywolf@texas.net (Michelle L. Orlando) wrote:



>Will try again--my hobbie is genealogy and I will spend a long time

>sitting at the computer searching for family histories, etc. and I

>find I am getting edema (not much) on the top of my hand and leg. 



Get a "computer timer" - software that willset off an alrm every

15-20 minutes - and get up and move around more often.

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: edema while on computer for a long time

From: "Scott" <cmayhem@ns.ihatespam.ca>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:55:39 GMT

--------

what is edema?



--

 replace ihatespam with sympatico



> graywolf@texas.net (Michelle L. Orlando) wrote:

>

> >Will try again--my hobbie is genealogy and I will spend a long time

> >sitting at the computer searching for family histories, etc. and I

> >find I am getting edema (not much) on the top of my hand and leg.

>











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: edema while on computer for a long time

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:25:07 -0700

--------

"Scott" <cmayhem@ns.ihatespam.ca> wrote:



>what is edema?



that puffy effect you see in your feet when you've been sitting

at the computer for 8 hours straight. 

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: edema while on computer for a long time

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:40:52 GMT

--------

On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:05:05 GMT, graywolf@texas.net (Michelle L.

Orlando) wrote:



>Will try again--my hobbie is genealogy and I will spend a long time

>sitting at the computer searching for family histories, etc. and I

>find I am getting edema (not much) on the top of my hand and leg. I

>keep my leg sometimes on a stool, but mostly not. I have been using

>Dandelion herbs from the health food store 3 caps and taking Vitamin

>B. Also, trying to drink lots of water. 

>

>Anyone have any info or herbs to recommend? I do have asthma that I

>must take prescription sprays 2 x's a day for it, one is a steroid

>spray. 



Water retention is, I believe, a side effect, is it not?

But, be that as it may, I've 'been there, done that...' and herbs were

not the answer. Exercise was.  Two or more hours gardening or walking

[preferably divided into twice a day] plus stopping off every hour or

so to do some domestic, physical chores, seem to have cured the

problem.  Or at least, I have noticed that when it's raining and I'm

too lazy to leave the computer, the oedema returns.



Joanna







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: edema while on computer for a long time

From: jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie)

Date: 3 Aug 2001 20:15:34 GMT

--------

Michelle L. Orlando <graywolf@texas.net> wrote:

> Will try again--my hobbie is genealogy and I will spend a long time

> sitting at the computer searching for family histories, etc. and I

> find I am getting edema (not much) on the top of my hand and leg. I

> keep my leg sometimes on a stool, but mostly not. I have been using

> Dandelion herbs from the health food store 3 caps and taking Vitamin

> B. Also, trying to drink lots of water. 



I recommend that you see your doctor first, before looking into herbs.

While edema can be caused by some things that aren't very dangerous,

it can also be a warning sign of a serious cardiac problem.



-- 

  jamie  (mjwm@austin.rr.com)



  		"There's a seeker born every minute."







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: edema while on computer for a long time

From: president@whitehouse.gov (Charlie Lawrence)

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:36:07 GMT

--------

i have rsd and have severe swollen/painful hand.  i wear an endema glove my 

therapist gave me, it's a tight fitting stretchy thing.  it works well.



graywolf@texas.net (Michelle L. Orlando) wrote in 

news:3b6a4b9e.26855708@news.texas.net:



> Will try again--my hobbie is genealogy and I will spend a long time

> sitting at the computer searching for family histories, etc. and I

> find I am getting edema (not much) on the top of my hand and leg. I

> keep my leg sometimes on a stool, but mostly not. I have been using

> Dandelion herbs from the health food store 3 caps and taking Vitamin

> B. Also, trying to drink lots of water. 

> 

> Anyone have any info or herbs to recommend? I do have asthma that I

> must take prescription sprays 2 x's a day for it, one is a steroid

> spray. 

> 

> Appreciate any info and herbs to take.

> 

> Michelle







-- 

"Only after the last tree has been cut down,the last fish has been 

caught,when the last river has been poisoned, will you discover that money 

can't be eaten."





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: pubic lice

From: "Jim Mulcahy" <mulcahyj@wycol.net>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:03:50 GMT

--------

is there a good herbal remedy for pubic lice?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: pubic lice

From: "Scott" <cmayhem@ns.ihatespam.ca>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:53:24 GMT

--------

shave your bag may work



--

 replace ihatespam with sympatico

Jim Mulcahy <mulcahyj@wycol.net> wrote in message

news:3b6b1405$1@news.pcom.net...

> is there a good herbal remedy for pubic lice?

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: pubic lice

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:25:26 -0700

--------

"Jim Mulcahy" <mulcahyj@wycol.net> wrote:



>is there a good herbal remedy for pubic lice?

>

Any of the remedies for headlice work on pubic lice.  



Just make sure to treat ALL areas of coarse hair: legs, chest,

and armpits ... maybe even your back.  

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: energy

From: "judy barrett" <poet5@mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:37:22 -0400

--------

My husband is a healthy active 70 year old. He had a physical not long ago

and everything was fine. He even had some extra blood work done. The problem

is that he seems to get tired very easily. He wants to go to sleep right

after supper, gets up from the nap and goes to bed.



Is there an herb, or a combination of herbs that might build up his energy.

I know not to use the stimulant  herbs, but he needs to build up the energy

level a bit.



I check this group about once a week, but if you would reply to my email

address I would appreciate it.



Poet5@mindspring.com



--

all blessings

Judy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: energy

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:45:42 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Oh my, so many questions should really be asked and answered, so please be

aware that you would be wise to seek further.



All other things being equal, and they rarely are, panax ginseng tea

traditionally prepared from red roots is the most-used TCM/CHM herb when

older men slow down too much. Ginseng users should monitor for excessive

blood pressure. Yes, a herb formula would probably be better, but now we

really need the many questions and answers.



You may be reflecting the 'adrenal exhaustion' stereotype about

stimulants. Stimulants are often just fine when nutritional support for

stimulation is simultaneously provided. Vit C, B6, and phenylalanine for

coffee drinkers is just one example. There is some preliminary evidence

that coffee drinkers are less likely to get Alzheimer's. 



You may wish to consider subscribing to Life Extension Magazine which is

offered by the Life Extension Foundation of Hollywood Florida. Their main

web site FAQ is here:

http://www.lef.org/company.html

along with many other interesting resources.



However, Pearson & Shaw have documented a number reasons why some people

are opposed to life extension (see _Life Extension_, Warner, 1983?; but

_Life Extension Companion_, Warner, 1984 is far easier to read for other

issues). It does cost considerable money, though I've devised a minimalist

version for maybe $250/yr. But some people are either openly or secretly

tired of living. Or the chance of living longer (or just healthier) is not

worth the necessary change in their routine. God's will, etc.  It is

pointless to try to get such people to take a lot of daily pills or drink

strange-tasting teas. 



The magazine is offered here for $40/yr:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag.html

but it appears that you can buy it here for $20/yr:

http://www.ncbuy.com/magazines/1113.html



This is a little odd, but if you are well-off, you are encouraged by me to

buy the mag for the higher price. The reason for this is that LEF sponsors

private research into life extension issues of the biomedical type that is

normally done only by governments, universities, and pharma companies. 

They seem to be nice people with a good reputation among life extenders

(so far). 



If you are not well-off, many of the recommended vitamins, herbs, and

other supplements can be purchased for much less than LEF prices with

careful net shopping.



Hope this helps.



Sean

---



judy barrett <poet5@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:9kfcvk$1u6$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...

> My husband is a healthy active 70 year old. He had a physical not long

> ago and everything was fine. He even had some extra blood work done. 

> The problem is that he seems to get tired very easily. He wants to go 

> to sleep right after supper, gets up from the nap and goes to bed.

> Is there an herb, or a combination of herbs that might build up his

> energy.

> I know not to use the stimulant  herbs, but he needs to build up the

> energy level a bit.

> 

> I check this group about once a week, but if you would reply to my email

> address I would appreciate it.

> 

> Poet5@mindspring.com

> 

> --

> all blessings

> Judy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: energy

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:28:55 -0700

--------

"judy barrett" <poet5@mindspring.com> wrote:



>My husband is a healthy active 70 year old. He had a physical not long ago

>and everything was fine. 



How long ago was that?  



>The problem is that he seems to get tired very easily. He wants to go to sleep right

>after supper, gets up from the nap and goes to bed.



He needs a checkup ... could be the beginning of heart failure,

anemia, leukemia, or other things.  



If you think he's tired now, just try a stimulant and see what

happens when you force the body to burn energy it is trying to

save ... you zoom then crash.  

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Echinacea Tinctures & alcohol amounts. 

From: Jill Colwell <jcolwell@ozemail.com.au>

Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:37:26 +1000

--------

The British Herbal Pharmacopoeia (BHP) says:



Dried root and rhizome - dose 1 g or by infuse or decoction.   

Liquid extract 1:1 in 45% alcohol - dose 0.25 - 1 ml.   

Tincture 1:5 in 45% alcohol - dose 1-2 ml.



Cheers

Jill Colwell - Australia





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Marijuana & other pain relieving drugs

From: Jill Colwell <jcolwell@ozemail.com.au>

Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:48:13 +1000

--------

I agree with the Sympathetic Doctor - we should stop trying to prohibit

drugs (and I DON'T take them, so don't flame me, please).   



My husband died last year from pancreatic cancer, and couldn't tolerate

morphine.   Our chemist said that "if only heroin was legalised in

Australia - Bob would have been able to use that without a problem".  

As a herbalist, I know that the more the whole drug is used, usually the

less side effects.  Laudanum (opium) would have been another option.  

It was in wide spread use in the UK in 19C, but stopped by the law

makers (USA Presidents were / are are the worst).



Just my tuppence worth.

Jill Colwell - Australia



>Sympathetic MD wrote:

> There are good reasons to believe that medical marijuana could be useful in some

> cases of Crohn's disease; for relief of pain, if nothing else.  Whether any

> patient would benefit from it's use, given its known risks and side effects, is

> really the subject for a discussion between the patient and the physician.  In a

> few States, a recommendation for its use in some medical conditions is legal, at

> least in terms of the State laws, but remains proscribed under federal law.  It

> is only recently that marijuana has become available for research, and it will

> be some time before the specifics of its use in a whole host of medical maladies

> are known. But, given its RELATIVELY  benign nature, and a long history of use

> in traditional medicine, it seems reasonable to allow a physician to add it to

> his/her armementarium of beneficial compounds. One must always remember that the

> battle over marijuana is based on politics, and not on the known scientific

> evidence.  The majority of THAT does not support further prohibition in its

> present form. The War on Drugs has cost us (you and me) a hundred billion

> dollars, with no appreciable effect on drug use, and an ever worsening crime

> component.  Wouldn't it have been nice to have seen a paltry 1% of that (say a

> BILLION dollars) go into the research on finding a cure for Crohn's disease?

>     A Sympathetic MD ;-}>





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: rose tea??

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:43:02 +0100

--------

Can anyone suggest a supplier of rose tea, Preferably UK but anyway

considered...

The important thing is it should be rose only, no other fruity additions...



My Mum had some in St Lucia and it blew her away and now she cant get any...



thanks...



Su









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: "Sally Pointer" <SallyPointer@btinternet.com>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:11:31 +0100

--------



"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:Bacb7.7241$hs5.1399265@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...

> Can anyone suggest a supplier of rose tea, Preferably UK but anyway

> considered...

> The important thing is it should be rose only, no other fruity

additions...

>

> My Mum had some in St Lucia and it blew her away and now she cant get

any...

>

> thanks...

>

> Su

>

> I've never tried rose tea by itself, if its just petals or hips then a

good supplier like Baldwins or the Herbal Apothecary should be fine, if its

laced with rose oil or a mixture of the parts of the rose then you may have

to work out what itwas then blend from scratch. Did it taste like

roses?Sounds nice.

Sally









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 05:03:54 -0700

--------

"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:



>I wasnt there at the time, so not sure. She swears they said it was rose

>tea. Guess it could have been rosehips..

>



It might have been what the Mexicans call "jamaica" - the flower

of a hibiscus species, makes a lovely red tea with a delicate

flavor.  



Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 8 Aug 2001 01:25:39 GMT

--------



>> I wasnt there at the time, so not sure. She swears they said it was

>> rose tea. Guess it could have been rosehips..

> It might have been what the Mexicans call "jamaica" - the flower of

> a hibiscus species, makes a lovely red tea with a delicate flavor.  



This is the same stuff I suggested, usually called "sorrel" in the UK.

Sue, if you live anywhere near an Afro-Caribbean community you should

find that quite easy to buy (look for bags of pink dried flower petals),

if my guess is right it'll save you a lot of time to just try it, and

anyway you won't regret it even if it doesn't turn out to be what your

mum had.



(There's no Afro-Caribbean community in Scotland; the only time I've

bought the stuff myself was from a shop near Portobello Road in London,

and I've had it in Caribbean restaurants in England).



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:11:26 +0100

--------

We have a great shop in town, loads of caribbean food, they also stock

chinese too..  Best place for ad crazy looking fruits and vegetables. Also

one of the best stockist of fresh coriander this season.



I have had their sorrel tea in the past, they have a couple of blends..

nice,



regards



Sue





bogus address wrote in message <8041@purr.demon.co.uk>...

>

>>> I wasnt there at the time, so not sure. She swears they said it was

>>> rose tea. Guess it could have been rosehips..

>> It might have been what the Mexicans call "jamaica" - the flower of

>> a hibiscus species, makes a lovely red tea with a delicate flavor.

>

>This is the same stuff I suggested, usually called "sorrel" in the UK.

>Sue, if you live anywhere near an Afro-Caribbean community you should

>find that quite easy to buy (look for bags of pink dried flower petals),

>if my guess is right it'll save you a lot of time to just try it, and

>anyway you won't regret it even if it doesn't turn out to be what your

>mum had.

>

>(There's no Afro-Caribbean community in Scotland; the only time I've

>bought the stuff myself was from a shop near Portobello Road in London,

>and I've had it in Caribbean restaurants in England).

>

>========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce.

<========

>Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131

6604760

>http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and

recipes,

>freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music

resources

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: "Graham" <Graham@whereever.com>

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:09:31 -0700

--------



Sue Green <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:LFrb7.7631$3K2.1179400@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

> I wasnt there at the time, so not sure. She swears they said it was rose

> tea. Guess it could have been rosehips..

>





If it is rosehip tea that you want then try www.av-at.com  they have some

nice teas amongst other stuff





> Do you have any contact details for the companies you mentioned???

>

> thanks

>

> Sue

>

>

>

> >>

> >> I've never tried rose tea by itself, if its just petals or hips then a

> >good supplier like Baldwins or the Herbal Apothecary should be fine, if

its

> >laced with rose oil or a mixture of the parts of the rose then you may

have

> >to work out what itwas then blend from scratch. Did it taste like

> >roses?Sounds nice.

> >Sally

> >

> >

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 6 Aug 2001 00:55:39 GMT

--------



> Can anyone suggest a supplier of rose tea, Preferably UK but anyway

> considered...

> The important thing is it should be rose only, no other fruity additions...

> My Mum had some in St Lucia and it blew her away and now she cant get any...



Are you sure it was rose?



Caribbean names for things can be odd.  What I suspect this might have

been is Hibiscus sabdariffa, known in some British Afro-Caribbean

communities as "sorrel" (it is totally unrelated to the green sorrel

used in French cookery).  Dramatic pink colour and spectacular flavour.



Rose hips are just coming into season now and roses have been in flower

for a bit.  Why not just experiment?  (Note, you have to be careful to

remove the internal mass of spiny fluff from the rosehips or the result

will be like fibreglass cordial).



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: cyli@tiny.net

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:20:56 -0500

--------

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:15:28 +0100, "Sue Green"

<sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:





>

>MM..Not sure if I can find the original retailer as it was in a part of the

>caribbean where the internet is probably not all that well plumbed in..

>Gorgeous island though and Id never want to dig up all that land for some

>piping to be laid. The people there seem pretty happy without it...

>



I'd bet that the place where she had the tea can get snail mail.  And

I'd bet even more that they have a good idea what goes into their rose

tea.  It may not be modern, but it's very direct.  Write them an ask.

---

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:47:54 +0100

--------

hee hee, yeah Ill write a letter addressed thus:



Cafe

Above Julianne Supermarket

St Lucia

The Caribbean



As thats all we have. There were a few of the above mentioned supermarkets

on the island, and I have no idea where on the island this one was..I didnt

even visit it, and Mum may have been worse the wear (or better perhaps) for

Rum...





Maybe Ill send them a postcard and see what comes of it.



Im not anti snail mail, I just have no idea where they were...



Cheers



Sue

x







cyli@tiny.net wrote in message ...

>On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:15:28 +0100, "Sue Green"

><sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>

>

>>

>>MM..Not sure if I can find the original retailer as it was in a part of

the

>>caribbean where the internet is probably not all that well plumbed in..

>>Gorgeous island though and Id never want to dig up all that land for some

>>piping to be laid. The people there seem pretty happy without it...

>>

>

>I'd bet that the place where she had the tea can get snail mail.  And

>I'd bet even more that they have a good idea what goes into their rose

>tea.  It may not be modern, but it's very direct.  Write them an ask.

>---

>rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

>http://www.visi.com/~cyli









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:34:03 +0100

--------

;0) Youre dead right, Ill put it right above a pilgrimage to India for

meditation and yoga lessons!!



Bulgaria eh, wonder if Mum could be talked into that.



Dont worry about living long enough, just adopt a more practical attitude,

perhaps you get a few lifetimes to try it all in, aim for one per lifetime.

And take a notepad with achieved aims with you through to the next one, in

case you forget - or you could end up in Crete relearning essential oils

production! ;0)





Perhaps, in the case of quantum mechanics, and some scientific stuff I still

dont get, you are already resonating there in Bulgaria and Crete at the same

time. We are all resonating in everything...or something like that...



Sue

x



Wakefield wrote in message <9kq296$h0k$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net>...

>oh cmon, it's time for a visit down there- you know you want to go- just

put

>it on the 'to-do' list- like my trip to the rose fields of Bulgaria and

>Turkey, and the hills of Crete for lessons in production of essential oils.

>If I live that long and have the resources. Good luck!

>--

>

>-- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

>refuses to stay between the lines when parking --

>"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

>news:9XVb7.16292$3K2.1987566@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

>> hee hee, yeah Ill write a letter addressed thus:

>>

>> Cafe

>> Above Julianne Supermarket

>> St Lucia

>> The Caribbean

>>

>> As thats all we have. There were a few of the above mentioned

supermarkets

>> on the island, and I have no idea where on the island this one was..I

>didnt

>> even visit it, and Mum may have been worse the wear (or better perhaps)

>for

>> Rum...

>>

>>

>> Maybe Ill send them a postcard and see what comes of it.

>>

>> Im not anti snail mail, I just have no idea where they were...

>>

>> Cheers

>>

>> Sue

>> x

>>

>>

>>

>> cyli@tiny.net wrote in message ...

>> >On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:15:28 +0100, "Sue Green"

>> ><sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> >>

>> >>MM..Not sure if I can find the original retailer as it was in a part of

>> the

>> >>caribbean where the internet is probably not all that well plumbed in..

>> >>Gorgeous island though and Id never want to dig up all that land for

>some

>> >>piping to be laid. The people there seem pretty happy without it...

>> >>

>> >

>> >I'd bet that the place where she had the tea can get snail mail.  And

>> >I'd bet even more that they have a good idea what goes into their rose

>> >tea.  It may not be modern, but it's very direct.  Write them an ask.

>> >---

>> >rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

>> >http://www.visi.com/~cyli

>>

>>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea??

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 7 Aug 2001 07:00:09 GMT

--------

> Can anyone suggest a supplier of rose tea, Preferably UK but anyway

> considered...

> The important thing is it should be rose only, no other fruity additions...

> My Mum had some in St Lucia and it blew her away and now she cant get any...



>Are you sure it was rose?



>Caribbean names for things can be odd.  What I suspect this might have

>been is Hibiscus sabdariffa, known in some British Afro-Caribbean

>communities as "sorrel" (it is totally unrelated to the green sorrel

>used in French cookery).  Dramatic pink colour and spectacular flavour.



>Rose hips are just coming into season now and roses have been in flower

>for a bit.  Why not just experiment?  (Note, you have to be careful to

>remove the internal mass of spiny fluff from the rosehips or the result

>will be like fibreglass cordial).



>========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

>Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760



I suppose rose tea could be made from the petals and flower buds but believe

such a rose tea would be weak.



Hibiscus sabdariffa has much stronger flavor, tea might be rose color, but not

actually related to roses botanically.



What species of rose produces hips with so much spiny fluff?  I know, from the

dried rose hips, that Rosa canina seeds are very hard.  Once, by a house that

was condemned for urban renewal, I found and ate some rose fruits that were

sweet and juicy, very palatable for eating raw.  I guess the species was

Rosa rugosa but couldn't verify that fact.  I've also eaten Rosa multiflora

fruits, which are small, bitter and unpalatable, so I didn't persist eating

these fruits.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mustard Seed [for abundance luck]

From: catherine yronwode <cat@luckymojo.com>

Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 21:38:44 GMT

--------

> From: Egr420 <egr420@aol.com>



> I'm trying to find information on the folklore of mustard seed.  Any 

> old wives' tales out there?  I seem to remember that they bring in 

> money - but can't find anything to back it up.  I know there's the 

> biblical story, and I even found a Buddha story, but nothing to back > up my family's 'belief' of putting them in the doorway to bring 

> money in.  Anyone ever hear of this??



 Marigold <LynnCaphidsBrown@mediaone.net> wrote in message

 

> According to "Cunningham's Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs" mustard 

> seed is used for protection.  It can be sprinkled on the door sill 

> or buried under the doorstep as a protective measure to prevent 

> supernatural beings from entering the home.  I've not heard of using 

> it to bring in money, but some of our old grannies knew that even 

> the most doubting will do something to bring in money while scoffing 

> at protection spells.  Or maybe a family member caught old granny 

> doing this spell, and she explained it this way so they would allow 

> her to continue protecting her family. Marigold



In African-American hoodoo folk-magic, i have only heard of white

(yellow) mustard seed being used for protection and as an expression of

faith in heaven's blessings. Now, money could be one of those blessings,

i suppose, but i have never heard it said exactly that way.

It is sprinkled at the doorway to keep off witches, and it is carried in

a mjo bag with other herbs for protection. It is an ingredient in Four

Thieves Vinegar, which is used for protection and to cross up your

enemies -- and it does part of the protection work.  



Black (brown) mustard seed is magically used in hoodoo to confuse

enemies, witches, and others. It too is an ingredient in Four Thieves

Vinegar, which is used for protection and to cross up your enemies --

and it does the crossing work.  



cat yronwode 



Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: rose tea?? - found some

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:37:52 +0100

--------

I found somewhere in Holland that does some great sounding teas, including

Jamaican hibiscus type. But also pure unadulterated rose tea,...



www.botanic-art.com lovely people as well, very helpful and friendly...



Sue





Sue Green wrote in message ...

>I wasnt there at the time, so not sure. She swears they said it was rose

>tea. Guess it could have been rosehips..

>

>Do you have any contact details for the companies you mentioned???

>

>thanks

>

>Sue

>

>

>

>>>

>>> I've never tried rose tea by itself, if its just petals or hips then a

>>good supplier like Baldwins or the Herbal Apothecary should be fine, if

its

>>laced with rose oil or a mixture of the parts of the rose then you may

have

>>to work out what itwas then blend from scratch. Did it taste like

>>roses?Sounds nice.

>>Sally

>>

>>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: colic

From: "Dave Colquhoun" <Dave@aeonach.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:16:51 +0100

--------

Hi all,



Can anyone out there help us.



Our son is just six weeks old and we're having a distressing time. All the

symptoms seem to point to colic and that's what the thinks too.



Tonight's spasms of pain seemed quite severe. The doctor has suggested a

concoction based on paracetamol, which we are reluctant to use.



Can anyone suggest anything?



Many thanks,



Dave









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 7 Aug 2001 00:13:00 GMT

--------



> Our son is just six weeks old and we're having a distressing time. All

> the symptoms seem to point to colic and that's what the thinks too.

> Tonight's spasms of pain seemed quite severe. The doctor has suggested

> a concoction based on paracetamol, which we are reluctant to use.

> Can anyone suggest anything?



Is he being exclusively breastfed?



If not this could be food allergy.



Colic is only a symptom, not a disease.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: Liz Hanson <liz@zylanid.demon.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 01:22:40 +0100

--------

In article <8031@purr.demon.co.uk>, bogus address <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk>

writes

>

>

>Is he being exclusively breastfed?

>

>If not this could be food allergy.

>

>Colic is only a symptom, not a disease.

>



And even if the babe is breastfed, mothers sometimes have to be careful about

their own diet, to avoid problems for baby.  This is not necessarily allergy -

just the new gut being hypersensitive.  And some babies do get abdominal cramps

very easily.

-- 

Liz Hanson





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: "Dave Colquhoun" <Dave@aeonach.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 06:30:02 +0100

--------

Sorry,



Yes, Murdo is exclusively breastfed and Steph has largely moved over to

goatsmilk (don't eat meat).



We heard that fennel tea can help and Steph drinks plenty of that, she only

drinks herbal teas.



Dave.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:16:55 +0100

--------

My (breastfed) baby used to get tummy ache if I drank orange juice or ate

swede or beans. Drinking cartons of apple juice can be bad and lots of wheat

can be harsh on the tummy too.



Treat mum as if she has tummy ache, seeing as baby is getting the same diet,

indirectly - she could eat gentle settling food, drink ginger or chamomoile or

peppermint tea.  She probably needs a bit of tlc anyway if she's worried about

baby.



If you can't find a solution remember that colic doesn't last for long, and

colickly babies grow up fine.  Look after yourselves, its a tough time for you

too.



Julia



Wakefield wrote:



>    so then, is it asociated with other food intake- cabbage or broccoli,

> sausage/pork, cucumbers, beans? If it sometimes causes gas in grownups, it

> can cause gas in the breastfed little one second hand.

> --

>

> -- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

> refuses to stay between the lines when parking --

> "Dave Colquhoun" <Dave@aeonach.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:9knuda$t3o$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

> > Sorry,

> >

> > Yes, Murdo is exclusively breastfed and Steph has largely moved over to

> > goatsmilk (don't eat meat).

> >

> > We heard that fennel tea can help and Steph drinks plenty of that, she

> only

> > drinks herbal teas.

> >

> > Dave.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:35:41 GMT

--------





Wakefield wrote:



>

>

> >

> > Treat mum as if she has tummy ache, seeing as baby is getting the same

> diet, indirectly - she could eat gentle settling food, drink ginger or

> chamomoile or

> > peppermint tea.  She probably needs a bit of tlc anyway if she's worried

> about  baby.



Marcia: (the above sounds good)

I add that baked potatoes with yogurt might be helpful, and almost any green

leafy culinary herb ( smidges) may be added for enhancement for the mother.

Good luck and good health,

Marcia

---



>







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:11:58 +0100

--------

although avoid parsley as it can reduce milk flow (apparently)



Julia



Marcia Grossbard wrote:



> Wakefield wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Treat mum as if she has tummy ache, seeing as baby is getting the same

> > diet, indirectly - she could eat gentle settling food, drink ginger or

> > chamomoile or

> > > peppermint tea.  She probably needs a bit of tlc anyway if she's worried

> > about  baby.

>

> Marcia: (the above sounds good)

> I add that baked potatoes with yogurt might be helpful, and almost any green

> leafy culinary herb ( smidges) may be added for enhancement for the mother.

> Good luck and good health,

> Marcia

> ---

>

> >







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:05:39 +0100

--------

I think you call 'swede' yellow turnip, just in case you think I was eating

Swedish people...



Julia







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:36:52 GMT

--------





Julia Maddocks wrote:



> I think you call 'swede' yellow turnip, just in case you think I was eating

> Swedish people...



Marcia:

Thank you.  I thought maybe they were either rutabagas or kohlrabi.

Marcia

---



>

>

> Julia







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: colic

From: "Nightshade and Flat" <andersons@eatel.net>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:52:19 -0500

--------

A bit late, but I haven't checked this newsgroup in a little while...



My son had bad colic too, and on advice of a very nice British lady, I

bought a bottle of "Woodward's Celebrated Gripe Water".  It contains Dill

Oil, Sodium Bicarbonate, Oleoresin Ginger and sucrose and comes in a

paper-wrapped plastic bottle.  It works, and my son seemed to quite like the

taste.



Love & Laughter,

Nightshade





"Marcia Grossbard" <catsie@mediaone.net> wrote in message

news:3B731098.2FC14E12@mediaone.net...

>

>

> Julia Maddocks wrote:

>

> > I think you call 'swede' yellow turnip, just in case you think I was

eating

> > Swedish people...

>

> Marcia:

> Thank you.  I thought maybe they were either rutabagas or kohlrabi.

> Marcia

> ---

>

> >

> >

> > Julia

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: What's wrong with comfey??

From: mamasown@aol.com (MAMASOWN)

Date: 07 Aug 2001 00:48:40 GMT

--------

I here the FDA has ordered all supplements containing comfrey to be removed

from stores. Is this because comfrey works or because it is poisonous?

Ephedra has definately hurt people but they have not ordered it to be removed

from stores.

I don't get it. Can someone explain it?







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Alice From Hell <alicefromhell@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 01:08:12 GMT

--------

Do you have a source for this?



MAMASOWN wrote:



> I here the FDA has ordered all supplements containing comfrey to be removed

> from stores. Is this because comfrey works or because it is poisonous?

> Ephedra has definately hurt people but they have not ordered it to be removed

> from stores.

> I don't get it. Can someone explain it?



--

I know I'll do the right thing

If the right thing is revealed

Cause it's always raining in my head

Forget all the things I should have said

--Staind "Epiphany" _Break the Cycle_









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:44:17 -0700

--------

mamasown@aol.com (MAMASOWN) wrote:



>I here the FDA has ordered all supplements containing comfrey to be removed

>from stores. Is this because comfrey works or because it is poisonous?

>Ephedra has definately hurt people but they have not ordered it to be removed

>from stores.

>I don't get it. Can someone explain it?



It has some compounds in it that cause liver failure.  

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: "Axel Grease" <Axel@NoSpam.com>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 02:23:15 -0400

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh wrote in message ...

>mamasown@aol.com (MAMASOWN) wrote:

<snips>

>>I here the FDA has ordered all supplements containing comfrey to be

removed

>>from stores. Is this because comfrey works or because it is poisonous?

>It has some compounds in it that cause liver failure.





Wouldn't this be a better "one-liner" answer?...

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/medicinal-herbs/part3/

..or ...

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-2-15-comfrey.html



... not nearly so misleading as to the level of danger, since the amount of

comfrey needed to damage most livers significantly is rather great.



Has anyone discovered what the human liver's natural ability to recover from

veno-occlusion damage might be, vs. the dosage of comfrey required to

overcome that healing ability within a specific time frame?  If not, more

research certainly seems appropriate before banning use of any plant on the

basis of only 4 people's complex, and questionably documented, problems.



>When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no

need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.

>John Kenneth Galbraith



When confronted with new ideas, requiring strong and convincing proof of

veracity is the act of a rational and prudent person.

Ridiculing the need for proof is the mark of a person whose motives may well

be less than desireable, in the minds of rational and prudent people.



Axel









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: "SGilbertson" <slg@chorus.net>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:24:00 -0500

--------

Hear, hear.  There are prescription drugs on the market with far greater

proven dangers than comfrey, which has been successfully used for hundreds

if not thousand of years.  It's easy to grow, easy to dry, and easy to use,

thus pharmaceutical companies can't make money off it.  And there, in my

opinion, lies the motive for trying to scare people away from its use.



Zoe





"Axel Grease" <Axel@NoSpam.com> wrote in message

news:3b6f898c$0$1525$4c5ecdc7@news.erinet.com...

> Tsu Dho Nimh wrote in message ...

> >mamasown@aol.com (MAMASOWN) wrote:

>

> Wouldn't this be a better "one-liner" answer?...

> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/medicinal-herbs/part3/

> ..or ...

> http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-2-15-comfrey.html

>

> ... not nearly so misleading as to the level of danger, since the amount

of

> comfrey needed to damage most livers significantly is rather great.

>

> Has anyone discovered what the human liver's natural ability to recover

from

> veno-occlusion damage might be, vs. the dosage of comfrey required to

> overcome that healing ability within a specific time frame?  If not, more

> research certainly seems appropriate before banning use of any plant on

the

> basis of only 4 people's complex, and questionably documented, problems.

>











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:32:15 +0300

--------

"SGilbertson" <slg@chorus.net> wrote:



>Hear, hear.  There are prescription drugs on the market with far greater

>proven dangers than comfrey, which has been successfully used for hundreds

>if not thousand of years.  It's easy to grow, easy to dry, and easy to use,

>thus pharmaceutical companies can't make money off it.  And there, in my

>opinion, lies the motive for trying to scare people away from its use.



Problem is, veno-occlusive disease (VOD) stems from hepatotoxic pyrrolizidine

alkaloids. Next problem is, veno-occlusive disease is insidious. So auntie died?

Well, she was poorly... unless you suspect 

veno-occlusive liver problems you won't do an autopsy. A few decades ago it was

impossible to do biopsies.



So while you may think that comfrey has been used safely for hundreds, if not

thousands of years, actually it's been a quiet killer for hundreds, if not

thousands of years. Sure, it takes lots of comfrey. Sure, lots of us survive.

But why risk it?



More information on pyrrolizidine alkaloids here:

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/PAs/PAs.html



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:25:36 -0700

--------

Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote:



>Problem is, veno-occlusive disease (VOD) stems from hepatotoxic pyrrolizidine

>alkaloids. Next problem is, veno-occlusive disease is insidious. So auntie died?

>Well, she was poorly... unless you suspect 

>veno-occlusive liver problems you won't do an autopsy. A few decades ago it was

>impossible to do biopsies.

>

>So while you may think that comfrey has been used safely for hundreds, if not

>thousands of years, actually it's been a quiet killer for hundreds, if not

>thousands of years. 



Thank you!  

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:21:00 +0100

--------

I think one of the problems is, that people take prescription drugs seriously and are careful about doses, but herbs are seen as

'safe' so some people take as much as they want, and if they don't get better quck enough they take some more.



Hopefully everyone using herbs will learn more about safe doses and prevent the need for govt interference.  But I doubt it...



Julia



Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:



> Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote:

>

> >Problem is, veno-occlusive disease (VOD) stems from hepatotoxic pyrrolizidine

> >alkaloids. Next problem is, veno-occlusive disease is insidious. So auntie died?

> >Well, she was poorly... unless you suspect

> >veno-occlusive liver problems you won't do an autopsy. A few decades ago it was

> >impossible to do biopsies.

> >

> >So while you may think that comfrey has been used safely for hundreds, if not

> >thousands of years, actually it's been a quiet killer for hundreds, if not

> >thousands of years.

>

> Thank you!

> Tsu Dho Nimh

>







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: "SGilbertson" <slg@chorus.net>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:36:13 -0500

--------

"Julia Maddocks" <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk> wrote in message

news:3B713CBC.B8D3753@zoom.co.uk...

> I think one of the problems is, that people take prescription drugs

seriously and are careful about doses, but herbs are seen as

> 'safe' so some people take as much as they want, and if they don't get

better quck enough they take some more.

>

> Hopefully everyone using herbs will learn more about safe doses and

prevent the need for govt interference.  But I doubt it...

>

> Julia



Still, there are more documented deaths from prescription drugs than from

any herbs.  Tylenol will kill you if you take enough of it, and many

prescription anti-inflammatories are notoriously hard on the liver. Yet the

panic level always rises when we talk about herbs...



I guess this whole discussion points out some basic differences in

philosophy.  I recognize the utility of laboratory proof and the type of

rational thought process we commonly see in medical journals and the like: I

used to be a litigator who represented plantiffs with asbestos-related

illnesses, and we relied on medical experts, including pulmonologists and

epidemiologists, to provide the proof that our clients were suffering from

asbestos-related diseases.  But I also think that this sort of logical,

rational process can be used detrimentally to cloud the real issues: can we

take care of our own health using empirically tested methods, or do

corporations (with government backing) have the right to ban those methods,

while permitting their own equally risky yet significantly more expensive

methods?  I don't intend to trash anyone's opinions here, but I do think the

issues are more complex than they may first appear.



Zoe









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 04:27:45 -0700

--------

Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk> wrote:



>I think one of the problems is, that people take prescription 

>drugs seriously and are careful about doses, but herbs are seen 

>as 'safe' so some people take as much as they want, and if they 

>don't get better quck enough they take some more.



  Exactly!  And they don't realize thast the effects are often

slower to show up ... one of my tenants drank an ENTIRE pot of

ephedra tea because the first cup didn't do anything for her

congestion (right after the cup was empty, she was still

congested, so she swilled down the rest of the pot).  She bounced

off the walls for a few hours, but she was REALLY decongested. 

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 09:36:01 GMT

--------

On 07 Aug 2001 00:48:40 GMT, mamasown@aol.com (MAMASOWN) wrote:



>I here the FDA has ordered all supplements containing comfrey to be removed

>from stores. Is this because comfrey works or because it is poisonous?

>Ephedra has definately hurt people but they have not ordered it to be removed

>from stores.

>I don't get it. Can someone explain it?



http://www.msnbc.com/news/597162.asp?cp1=1

http://www.cancerpage.com/cancernews/cancernews3001.htm

I believe there is some Japanese research which suggests comfrey might

be carcinogenic if ingested as well as causing possible liver damage.



In the UK it is generally only found in balms for external treatment

of bruises etc.



However, as a compost hastener or liquid feed for plants, it's free

for the picking and quite brilliant!



Joanna





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: "Steven Grace" <steven@grace74.freeserve.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:41:23 +0100

--------



"Joanna Prescott" <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message

news:2idvmtgll5k6li93srjjsm5d38gnbg34fk@4ax.com..

>snip<.

> In the UK it is generally only found in balms for external treatment

> of bruises etc.

>

> Joanna



....for which it is an excellent healer, my wife recently sprained her ankle

very badly causing pain, severe bruising and inflammation that continued

unabated for over a week. Whilst we were hobbling around Bath on a summer

break we found some comfrey balm and the rate of healing was very

impressive.

We are converted.



Steve









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 00:15:35 GMT

--------

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:41:23 +0100, "Steven Grace"

<steven@grace74.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:



>

>"Joanna Prescott" <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message

>news:2idvmtgll5k6li93srjjsm5d38gnbg34fk@4ax.com..

>>snip<.

>> In the UK it is generally only found in balms for external treatment

>> of bruises etc.



>....for which it is an excellent healer, my wife recently sprained her ankle

>very badly causing pain, severe bruising and inflammation that continued

>unabated for over a week. Whilst we were hobbling around Bath on a summer

>break we found some comfrey balm and the rate of healing was very

>impressive.

>We are converted.



If you can find the plants, just cut some leaves [it re-grows] and

make up some 'embrocation'. It pongs terribly but this plant really is

a wonderful gift of nature. Personally, I wouldn't take it internally

as my liver has taken enough of a bashing from more pleasant potions

but really, I do wonder why it's taken us all so long to rediscover

these potentially free sources of healing and gardening aids.



Joanna





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: "Leaves & Roots" <leavesandroots@leavesandroots.com>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:43:36 -0400

--------



"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

<ker snipitiy snip>

What would be good is if there were an extraction process to get

> the allantoin without the pyrilozidine (I know that's spelled wrong, and

I'm

> sorry). Anyone know of such? > --

<snip some more>



If I may quote from the side of Herb Pharm's Comfrey extract:   "Through our

special extraction process, we are able to produce a mucilage-rich extract

that is free of Comfrey's potentially toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids.  This

creates a comfrey extract that is safeto use internally as well as

externally"



Ta Da!!



Carolyn











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:29:40 GMT

--------

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:43:36 -0400, "Leaves & Roots"

<leavesandroots@leavesandroots.com> wrote:



>

>"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

><ker snipitiy snip>

>What would be good is if there were an extraction process to get

>> the allantoin without the pyrilozidine (I know that's spelled wrong, and

>I'm

>> sorry). Anyone know of such? > --

><snip some more>

>

>If I may quote from the side of Herb Pharm's Comfrey extract:   "Through our

>special extraction process, we are able to produce a mucilage-rich extract

>that is free of Comfrey's potentially toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids.  This

>creates a comfrey extract that is safeto use internally as well as

>externally"



<chuckle> Well they would say that, wouldn't they!



According to the following site, it's the allantoin which causes cell

proliferation and, therefore, heals wounds.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/comfrey.html

"Wild comfrey was brought to America by English immigrants for

medicinal uses. The allantoin content of comfrey, especially in the

root, has resulted in its use in folk medicine for healing wounds,

sores, burns, swollen tissue, and broken bones. Allantoin, found in

milk of nursing mothers and the fetal allantois, appeared to affect

the rate of cell multiplication. Wounds and burns seemed to heal

faster when allantoin was applied due to a possible increase in number

of white blood cells. Comfrey has been reported to promote healthy

skin with its mucilage content that moisturizes and soothes, while the

allantoin promotes cell proliferation. "



But then so does Vitamin E oil....

I guess the answer is to continue using it externally but not on a

fresh, deep wound and not to feed it to one's rats!



I wonder if there's a sufficient number of vegan long-term internal

users [for the B12] and how there livers are doing. 



Joanna





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:06:54 +0300

--------

Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:

>"Leaves & Roots" <leavesandroots@leavesandroots.com> wrote:

>

>>If I may quote from the side of Herb Pharm's Comfrey extract:   "Through our

>>special extraction process, we are able to produce a mucilage-rich extract

>>that is free of Comfrey's potentially toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids.  This

>>creates a comfrey extract that is safeto use internally as well as

>>externally"

>

><chuckle> Well they would say that, wouldn't they!



They wouldn't say that if they hadn't removed the pyrrolizidine alkaloids.

HerbPharm is a _HONEST_ outfit.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:27:32 -0400 (EDT)

--------

SGilbertson <slg@chorus.net> wrote in message

news:9krije$e1o$1@news.chorus.net...

> "Julia Maddocks" <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:3B713CBC.B8D3753@zoom.co.uk...

> > I think one of the problems is, that people take prescription drugs

> > seriously and are careful about doses, but herbs are seen as

> > 'safe' so some people take as much as they want, and if they don't get

> > better quck enough they take some more.

> > Hopefully everyone using herbs will learn more about safe doses and

> > prevent the need for govt interference.  But I doubt it...

> >

> Still, there are more documented deaths from prescription drugs than

> from any herbs. [...] 

> Yet the panic level always rises when we talk about herbs...



The "panic" isn't real, except maybe among pharma CEOs and stockholders.



IMHO, this is bought-and-paid pharmaco propaganda repeated endlessly in

the media, via media-connected old-boy PR firms. (I wrote a Usenet essay

on this subject last December, but alas, the thread was hijacked by the

WOSD.  :)



The underlying message is "see, herbs are *just as dangerous as drugs*",

so of course it then seems so reasonable to remove them from the market.

Thus consumers will have no alternative to allopath$ and pharma$. Last

year's front cover Reader's Digest (among others) attack on ephedra was

intended to "prove" the propaganda and drive home the need for outright

bans or stiffer regulations on all herbs, including hostile tests for

herbal treatment efficacy.



But the truth is, *most* herbs are *not* drugs, culturally understood.

It's fuzzy, but the USA cultural Aspirin Bottle Test of Drugs is

sort of flowcharted as follows: 



1) When one takes a few pills/caps, do most people get well? 

	If yes = drug. If no = snake oil herb fraud. If die = poison.

2) When one takes the whole bottle, do most people die or cripple?  

	If yes = drug. If no = herb, but if throw up = demand ban anyway.



As more taking more herbs when one doesn't get well quickly enough, two

herbalists whom I have studied, (RMHI professor of TCM, Roger Wicke,

Ph.D., and the radical herbalist doctor Shulze) claim that many herb

dosage forms are inadequate. Wicke thinks most alcohol tinctures are

useless, and Shulze claims that most encapsulated herbs have been

deliberately packed in small enough capsules so that they will usually do

nothing when consumed like aspirin. 



I have seen some evidence that both of these claims are true. 



British medical herbalist Simon Y. Mills  lists typically 2-4 grams per

infused dose for many common herbs, and often this is repeated 2 or 3

times per day. Also, I can buy a 1 oz. kava tincture at my coop for about

$8 USD. It comes with a dropper, but one effective dose is --- the whole

bottle!  



Sean

---





SGilbertson <slg@chorus.net> wrote in message

news:9krije$e1o$1@news.chorus.net...

> "Julia Maddocks" <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:3B713CBC.B8D3753@zoom.co.uk...

> > I think one of the problems is, that people take prescription drugs

> seriously and are careful about doses, but herbs are seen as

> > 'safe' so some people take as much as they want, and if they don't get

> better quck enough they take some more.

> >

> > Hopefully everyone using herbs will learn more about safe doses and

> prevent the need for govt interference.  But I doubt it...

> >

> > Julia

> 

> Still, there are more documented deaths from prescription drugs than

> from any herbs.  Tylenol will kill you if you take enough of it, and

> many prescription anti-inflammatories are notoriously hard on the liver.

> Yet the panic level always rises when we talk about herbs...

> 

> I guess this whole discussion points out some basic differences in

> philosophy.  I recognize the utility of laboratory proof and the type of

> rational thought process we commonly see in medical journals and the

> like: I used to be a litigator who represented plantiffs with

> asbestos-related illnesses, and we relied on medical experts, including 

> pulmonologists and epidemiologists, to provide the proof that our clients 

> were suffering from asbestos-related diseases.  But I also think that this

> sort of logical, rational process can be used detrimentally to cloud the

> real issues: can we take care of our own health using empirically tested 

> methods, or do corporations (with government backing) have the right to 

> ban those methods, while permitting their own equally risky yet 

> significantly more expensive methods?  I don't intend to trash anyone's

> opinions here, but I do think the issues are more complex than they may 

> first appear.

> 

> Zoe

> 

> 







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What's wrong with comfey??

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:06:57 +0300

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:



>British medical herbalist Simon Y. Mills  lists typically 2-4 grams per

>infused dose for many common herbs, and often this is repeated 2 or 3

>times per day. Also, I can buy a 1 oz. kava tincture at my coop for about

>$8 USD. It comes with a dropper, but one effective dose is --- the whole

>bottle!  



If that's the case, you've got lousy kava tincture. The effective dose of

quality kava is 1-3 drops. Anything more is a waste of good kava tincture.



I use lots of tinctures. Very rarely do I go above the "Take 30 drops 1-3 times

a day" in tincture formulas. Even more seldom is it more than "15 drops 1-3

times a day" for single herb tinctures.

And my tinctures do work at those doses. If yours don't, well, perhaps you

should learn how to pick your own herbs and tincture them yourself. Then you'd

know quality.



I also use lots of teas, usually in blends, sometimes as single herbs. 

These, too, work. And I'm not giving them in grams per day. Instead it's "Drink

2-3 cups a day; it's 1-2 teaspoons to the cup". _Quality_ herb doesn't need

large doses. You don't need more than a teaspoon three times a day even for mild

herbs like Epilobium.

Perhaps Simon Mills is using herbs from the global herb trade? Dried as fast as

possible, then kept in burlap and plastic bags in the back of a warehouse for a

few years, then sold to herbal wholesalers, kept on their shelves or backroom

for a few more months or years, and sold in one kilogram (or one pound) lots?

(There are a few excellent wholesalers of herbs. These don't buy anything from

the global herb trade - they have their own pickers and know where their herbs

come from.)



On a related note, _Chinese_ herbs are usually dispensed in large amounts - 

100 g a day isn't very unusual. But there, you're talking a different paradigm

altogether - TCM is not western herbal medicine.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Blood Sugar

From: "xxx" <xxx@pleasenomail.com>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 02:33:50 -0700

--------



Hello;



We have a neighbor that has diabetes and we are looking for a formulation in

a bottle that can help control his blood sugar. We have heard of

formulations by Enzymatic Therapy or Natures Way, etc.,



Appreaciate any advice













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Blood Sugar

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 04:12:25 -0700

--------

"xxx" <xxx@pleasenomail.com> wrote:



>

>Hello;

>

>We have a neighbor that has diabetes and we are looking for a formulation in

>a bottle that can help control his blood sugar. We have heard of

>formulations by Enzymatic Therapy or Natures Way, etc.,



Which type of diabetes?  Type I or Type II?  



Age?  Weight? Overweight?  



What is their current diet and lifestyle?  

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: aloe vera

From: jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie)

Date: 8 Aug 2001 01:20:10 GMT

--------

I have an aloe plant that I bought as a tiny little thing a few years

ago.  It now stands 3 feet tall.  I noticed when I broke off a leaf

recently that the lining of the leaf (not the gel) looks almost black.

Is that normal for a large aloe, or is there something wrong with it?

The leaves didn't look that way when they were small.



-- 

  jamie  (mjwm@austin.rr.com)



  		"There's a seeker born every minute."







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: "Robert Wade" <RWADE2@wi.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 04:50:14 GMT

--------

Does anyone know of an herb that is known to bring on a menstrual cycle that

is late?  Someone suggested calendula?  Does anyone know about that?



tia



Rena









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: Julia Maddocks <julia.maddocks@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:31:31 +0100

--------

depends why its late -



If you're definately not pregnant you can try drinking penny royal tea (1 tsp in

a cup of boiled water 3 * a day). It tastes nice too!



If you had a bit of a shock or lots of stress around ovulation time that can

make you late as can long airoplane journeys.



If you are pregnant, drinking herbs to bring on menstruation could make you ill

or harm the foetus or cause all sorts of problems.



Julia



Robert Wade wrote:



> Does anyone know of an herb that is known to bring on a menstrual cycle that

> is late?  Someone suggested calendula?  Does anyone know about that?

>

> tia

>

> Rena







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:29:43 GMT

--------

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 04:50:14 GMT, "Robert Wade" <RWADE2@wi.rr.com>

wrote:



>Does anyone know of an herb that is known to bring on a menstrual cycle that

>is late?  Someone suggested calendula?  Does anyone know about that?



Er, no, never heard of it. 

See:

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/cgi-bin/pfaf/arr_html?Calendula+officinalis&CAN=LATIND

Scroll down till you reach medicinal uses.



The most common herb used to bring about er...ummm...a late period, is

pennyroyal:

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/cgi-bin/pfaf/arr_html?Mentha+pulegium&CAN=COMIND



"Pennyroyal has been used for centuries in herbal medicine. Its main

value is as a digestive tonic where it increases the secretion of

digestive juices and relieves flatulence and colic[254]. Pennyroyal

also powerfully stimulates the uterine muscles and encourages

menstruation, thus it should not be prescribed for pregnant women

since it can procure abortions, this is especially the case if the

essential oil is used[238, 254]. "



If this is the real problem [a possible unwanted pregnancy] may I

humbly suggest serious thought about causing malformation if minds are

changed and a visit to a regular doctor if they are not.



Otherwise, let nature take its course. Menstruation can be delayed for

all sorts of reasons: stress, malnutrition, over-exercise, beginning

perimenopause [can be as early as 35], never being 'regular'. 



Joanna









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:22:29 -0400

--------

You should include a warning, ingestion of any pennyroyal essential oil

can be fatal. Otherwise, Robert might be tempted to try it in order to jump-

start "his" period.



Generally, those wanting the effects of Pennyroyal, aren't looking to kill

themselves as well.



"Joanna Prescott" <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message

news:guv1nt4qcgfdg5can6p2sb9eornrvov8hk@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 04:50:14 GMT, "Robert Wade" <RWADE2@wi.rr.com>

> wrote:

>

> >Does anyone know of an herb that is known to bring on a menstrual cycle

that

> >is late?  Someone suggested calendula?  Does anyone know about that?

>

> "Pennyroyal has been used for centuries in herbal medicine. Its main

> value is as a digestive tonic where it increases the secretion of

> digestive juices and relieves flatulence and colic[254]. Pennyroyal

> also powerfully stimulates the uterine muscles and encourages

> menstruation, thus it should not be prescribed for pregnant women

> since it can procure abortions, this is especially the case if the

> essential oil is used[238, 254].









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: Debbie Huffman <kyra@flash.net>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:59:08 GMT

--------

NA wrote:



> You should include a warning, ingestion of any pennyroyal essential oil

> can be fatal. Otherwise, Robert might be tempted to try it in order to 

> jump-start "his" period.

> 

> Generally, those wanting the effects of Pennyroyal, aren't looking to kill

> themselves as well.



"Any" is overexaggeration.  I have personally taken up to 10 drops of

pennyroyal EO over a 3-day span.  I knew I wasn't gravid [hey, I can

count!] and had been suffering from a BAD case of the upper respiratory

mucosa.  OTOH, the fatal dose can be as little as 1/2 tablespoon.  



OB counting:  For any one woman the 2nd half of the hormone cycle will

be the same number of days from month to month.  The first half can

indeed be thrown wildly off by a variety of stressors and environmental

conditions.  A basal body temperature thermometer and paper chart are

your best tools for determining whether or not a period is indeed

"late."  Here's one of the several sites I found by searching on

"sympto-thermal:"



http://www.epigee.org/guide/nfpchart.html



-Kyra



> "Joanna Prescott" <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:



> > "Robert Wade" <RWADE2@wi.rr.com> wrote:



>>> Does anyone know of an herb that is known to bring on a menstrual 

>>> cycle that is late?  



> > "Pennyroyal has been used for centuries in herbal medicine. Its main

> > value is as a digestive tonic where it increases the secretion of

> > digestive juices and relieves flatulence and colic[254]. Pennyroyal

> > also powerfully stimulates the uterine muscles and encourages

> > menstruation, thus it should not be prescribed for pregnant women

> > since it can procure abortions, this is especially the case if the

> > essential oil is used[238, 254].





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:14:25 -0400

--------

Any, as in true Pennyroyal or American Pennyroyal (different herbs).

Not something for the lay person to be messing with.



"Debbie Huffman" <kyra@flash.net> wrote in message

news:3B72EB46.B6BD4B0C@flash.net...

> NA wrote:

>

> > You should include a warning, ingestion of any pennyroyal essential oil

> > can be fatal. Otherwise, Robert might be tempted to try it in order to

> > jump-start "his" period.

> >

> > Generally, those wanting the effects of Pennyroyal, aren't looking to

kill

> > themselves as well.

>

> "Any" is overexaggeration.  I have personally taken up to 10 drops of

> pennyroyal EO over a 3-day span.  I knew I wasn't gravid [hey, I can

> count!] and had been suffering from a BAD case of the upper respiratory

> mucosa.  OTOH, the fatal dose can be as little as 1/2 tablespoon.

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: "Graham" <Graham@whereever.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:29:28 -0700

--------





Read the information on Pennyroyal etc at www.aromamedical.demon.co.uk



Graham

http://TheGuideToAromatherapy.com







NA <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:EHFc7.270$RE.568426@news.uswest.net...

> Any, as in true Pennyroyal or American Pennyroyal (different herbs).

> Not something for the lay person to be messing with.

>

> "Debbie Huffman" <kyra@flash.net> wrote in message

> news:3B72EB46.B6BD4B0C@flash.net...

> > NA wrote:

> >

> > > You should include a warning, ingestion of any pennyroyal essential

oil

> > > can be fatal. Otherwise, Robert might be tempted to try it in order to

> > > jump-start "his" period.

> > >

> > > Generally, those wanting the effects of Pennyroyal, aren't looking to

> kill

> > > themselves as well.

> >

> > "Any" is overexaggeration.  I have personally taken up to 10 drops of

> > pennyroyal EO over a 3-day span.  I knew I wasn't gravid [hey, I can

> > count!] and had been suffering from a BAD case of the upper respiratory

> > mucosa.  OTOH, the fatal dose can be as little as 1/2 tablespoon.

> >

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:08:23 -0400

--------

better yet, try the newsgroups FAQ:



http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-2-16-pennyroyal.html



Ingestion of infusion made from herb indicated in some cases, not essential

oil,

which has a history of use in inducing abortions.



Other sources for toxicity:



http://www.dunromin.demon.co.uk/aromatherapy/aromaoils_safety.htm

http://www.nutritionfocus.com/nutrition_supplementation/herbs/Pennyroyal.htm

l



others are easy to find. Oddly, the only pages supporting ingestion of

pennyroyal

I have found are aromatherapy sites.  One that seemed almost positive was

http://clinical.caregroup.org/altmed/interactions/Herb_Groups/Hepatotoxic.ht

m

where reference was made to a death (the only one ever? not according to

other

references) by ingestion of pennyroyal, but goes on to say that such

ingestion is

not a proper use of essential oils, to quote: "Essential oils are not

generally used

as internal medicines in herbal therapeutics".



Example of a warning at one site:



WARNING

The essential oil contains large amounts of pulegone (85-92%) making

pennyroyal toxic in large quantities; pulegone is hepatotoxic. 15 ml of oil

has proved fatal. Effects from ingestion of oil include abdominal pain,

nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, agitation, pyrexia, hypertension, rash

and tachycardia. Herb may cause kidney and liver damage. Irritant,

hepatotoxic, nephrotoxic



For those raised the states, that's about 1/2 an ounce for the fatality

level. smallers levels,

I assume, are what caused kidney and liver damage.





"Graham" <Graham@whereever.com> wrote in message

news:iNGc7.301$RE.622478@news.uswest.net...

>

>

> Read the information on Pennyroyal etc at www.aromamedical.demon.co.uk

>

> Graham

> http://TheGuideToAromatherapy.com

>

>

>

> NA <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message

> news:EHFc7.270$RE.568426@news.uswest.net...

> > Any, as in true Pennyroyal or American Pennyroyal (different herbs).

> > Not something for the lay person to be messing with.

> >

> > "Debbie Huffman" <kyra@flash.net> wrote in message

> > news:3B72EB46.B6BD4B0C@flash.net...

> > > NA wrote:

> > >

> > > > You should include a warning, ingestion of any pennyroyal essential

> oil

> > > > can be fatal. Otherwise, Robert might be tempted to try it in order

to

> > > > jump-start "his" period.

> > > >

> > > > Generally, those wanting the effects of Pennyroyal, aren't looking

to

> > kill

> > > > themselves as well.

> > >

> > > "Any" is overexaggeration.  I have personally taken up to 10 drops of

> > > pennyroyal EO over a 3-day span.  I knew I wasn't gravid [hey, I can

> > > count!] and had been suffering from a BAD case of the upper

respiratory

> > > mucosa.  OTOH, the fatal dose can be as little as 1/2 tablespoon.

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:40:06 GMT

--------





Robert Wade wrote:



> Does anyone know of an herb that is known to bring on a menstrual cycle that

> is late?  Someone suggested calendula?  Does anyone know about that?tia

> Rena



Vitex might be helpful, or at least something to read about.

Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:08:42 -0400

--------

Rena:



This is the info I found on Calendua at one site - it pretty much agrees

with other info

I have previously read about it's uses (generally for skin care). If you

need to bring on

a late period, check with your doctor for birth control pills or the RU-486

(essentially

just a large dose of birth control hormones, same effect as what everyone

already takes).

If you are not already on birth control, you need a physician's care for the

first few days.



Calendula flower (Calendula officianalis)



Actions: Anti-inflammatory, diaphoretic, astringent, vulnerary, antifungal,

cholagogue, emmenagogue, febrifuge.



Common Use: Also known as marigold, this flower has marked anti-fungal

activity and may be used both internally and externally to combat fungal

infections. Internally it is used to reduce digestive inflammation and is

therefore helpful in treating gastric and duodenal ulcers. Also useful for

relieving indigestion and gall bladder problems, and can help normalize

delayed or painful menstruation. 5 to 15 drops 2-4 times daily.



"Robert Wade" <RWADE2@wi.rr.com> wrote in message

news:cnHc7.52504$Jg.6595376@typhoon.kc.rr.com...

> My name is Rena, as I signed in my post.  This account is in my husband's

> name.  Geez.

>

>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: "James Gilbert" <jamesgilbert01@home.com>

Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:28:33 GMT

--------

> Does anyone know of an herb that is known to bring on

> a menstrual cycle that is late?



I've read that it's the precipitous drop in progesterone

levels that causes the shedding of the uterine lining in

the first place.



And, I've heard of women using progesterone cream in large

doses (i.e., a woman's ovaries generate 15 to 20 milligrams

per day during the 2nd half of the cycle, so they apply

enough cream daily to equal - say - 25 milligrams per day)

and then after some time...they abruptly stop...so as to

artificially telegraph to their body, "Okay - it's time to shed the lining."





James









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs for menstrual cycle

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:29:43 GMT

--------





James Gilbert wrote:



> > Does anyone know of an herb that is known to bring on

> > a menstrual cycle that is late?

>

> We have had threads on this discussing vitex and other threads talking about

> pennyroyal.  I used vitex with the last 10 days of my HRT prescription meds on

> one cycle, and it was a little bit "too" effective.



Marcia

---







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Wholesale Essential Oils

From: "Toml1001" <warc23@ktml.net>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 05:18:53 GMT

--------

Try:



www.WholesaleOils.COM











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: So what about herbal breast enlargers (as Bloussant)??

From: Alison Janes <AuctionWatch@powerparent.com>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:13:34 -0600

--------

Do these things work?







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: So what about herbal breast enlargers (as Bloussant)??

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 04:29:13 -0700

--------

Alison Janes <AuctionWatch@powerparent.com> wrote:



>Do these things work?





  For spetaculat results, quickly and non-surgically, use a

WonderBra from Victoria's Secret.  Instantly reversible too.



  The herbal stuff works in much the same way as birth control

pills ... changing hormone levels can cause breast enlargement.

But the pre-packed remedies are $$$ compared to the same herbs

separately.



  These things can screw up your menstrual cycle and cause

infertility - probably not permanent, and probably not in all

women, but mucking about with your hormone levels just to get

larger breasts may not be what you wanted.  Yes the ads say

"safe", but they mean "won't kill you".

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: So what about herbal breast enlargers (as Bloussant)??

From: schatz1@ptdprolog.net

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:15:30 GMT

--------

I've been taking the herbs on greenbush and it's been about 6 weeks and

I do see

a difference, my girlfriend took bloussant for about a month and noticed

fullness but

she didn't continue taking it, she probably would have seen more, now my

daughter

is taking grobust so we'll see if that works



Alison Janes wrote:



> Do these things work?











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Anti-fungal mouthwash?

From: amberapple@aol.com (Amberapple)

Date: 09 Aug 2001 03:05:57 GMT

--------

a couple of drops of tea tree in warm water is an excellent anti-microbial

mouthwash...









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: AMBERGRIS

From: amberapple@aol.com (Amberapple)

Date: 09 Aug 2001 03:08:23 GMT

--------

someone wrote:



And this has to do with herbs. . .how?



wlel, to be fair, ambergris is used in perfumery and so this somewhat falls

into the aromatherapy category...if the original poster had mentioned that a

botanical sourceof ambergris fragrance is peru balsam, that could have turned

it into an herbal discussion, too...









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Sick Kitties

From: agent@news4u.co.uk

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 09:33:08 GMT

--------

Hi all,



My three cats have just been diagnosed with cat flu and my littlest

one has been diagnosed as a chronic carrier.  The main symptom is

conjunctivitis, with occasional bouts of the sneezy sniffles and mouth

ulcers.



I was wondering about using Neem to treat them, especially the

carrier.  I love my babies and I don't want them to suffer any more

than they have to.



Also, the gunk the vet gave me to put in their eyes seems to really

hurt.  I was wondering about using Eyebright instead.



Any advice is welcome!



Thanks!

Kat





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: RE: Sick Kitties

From: alaininvc@nethere.com

Date: 9 Aug 2001 15:56:12 GMT

--------

Hi Kat(!),



Our littlest one was ill with the cat flu about a year ago. We gave it 5

drops

of "Oil of Oregano" in its food; once on Monday mornings again on Wednesday

mornings. Inside of 10 days she was fit as the proverbial fiddle!



Hope this helps!



Lois & Alan





 -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----

  http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups

   NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Sick Kitties

From: agent@news4u.co.uk

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:59:37 GMT

--------

Excellent!  Thanks Lois!  Actually,  I've been meaning to try that on

myself as well.



Kat





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: RE: Sick Kitties

From: alaininvc@nethere.com

Date: 9 Aug 2001 15:57:55 GMT

--------

Hi Kat(!),



Our littlest one was ill with the cat flu about a year ago. We gave it 5

drops

of "Oil of Oregano" in its food; once on Monday mornings again on Wednesday

mornings. Inside of 10 days she was fit as the proverbial fiddle!



Hope this helps!



Lois & Alan





 -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----

  http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups

   NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: feverfew and ants and bugs

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:57:13 +0100

--------

;0) Exactly what my bloke says...a gecko/lizard....but that was to catch

spiders after the spiders had caught the flies. I wouldnt wanna keep one in

a cage for any time, it would have to be free...they're beggars to catch

form previous experience..(the last one I looked after was called houdini,

you can guess why).  If its free in the house, how do I not lose it through

an open window/door???



Toads abundant in the back garden... they love the jugnle type grassy

atmosphere Ive created by doing buggar all gardening last year!!



cute little critters though... must admit. We had two emerald lizards at

Mums years ago.. very pretty.





Sue



>

>You need a toad!  Or a gecko, for indoors.

>Tsu Dho Nimh

>

>"If it were not for their intestinal bacteria, some people

>would have no culture at all."  Koch









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: glue ear

From: "Paul Sorenson" <pauls@REMOVE.classware.com.au>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:00:50 GMT

--------

Anyone have any herbal tips for glue ear (non infected) for a 4yo boy.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: glue ear

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:06:09 -0700

--------

"Paul Sorenson" <pauls@REMOVE.classware.com.au> wrote:



>Anyone have any herbal tips for glue ear (non infected) for a 4yo boy.

>



More water, less soft drinks, to help thin the mucus. 



Not herbal: any expectorant like the one in Robitussin cough

syrup to promote production of thinner mucus. 



You might have success with echinacea to propmote phagocytosis

and clearing away of the mucus by the WBC.  

Tsu Dho Nimh



When faced with choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. 

John Kenneth Galbraith





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: doggy

From: "Kate" <KD1024@swt.edu>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:52:03 -0500

--------

Alright ladies and gents...big question.  I have a puppy that's about 5-6

weeks old (not sure-someone dropped him off at our house.  We live in the

country and people seem to think this is an adequate way to take care of

overpopulation) who used to have a bad case of mange.  Practically all his

hair is gone, and his skin is still flaking off pretty badly.  I took him to

the vet to get rid of the mange and I think the dip that I got for him is

working, the only problem is that this was about 2 weeks ago, and none of

his hair has even started to grow back yet!  he's not scratching himself

anymore, but not a sign of new hair growth.  any ideas as to what the

problem may be?  Am I just being too impatient?



-Dawson









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: doggy

From: herblady@newsguy.com (RastaPoodle)

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:59:11 GMT

--------

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:52:03 -0500, "Kate" <KD1024@swt.edu> wrote:



>Alright ladies and gents...big question.  I have a puppy that's about 5-6

>weeks old (not sure-someone dropped him off at our house.  We live in the

>country and people seem to think this is an adequate way to take care of

>overpopulation) who used to have a bad case of mange.  Practically all his

>hair is gone, and his skin is still flaking off pretty badly.  I took him to

>the vet to get rid of the mange and I think the dip that I got for him is

>working, the only problem is that this was about 2 weeks ago, and none of

>his hair has even started to grow back yet!  he's not scratching himself

>anymore, but not a sign of new hair growth.  any ideas as to what the

>problem may be?  Am I just being too impatient?

>

>-Dawson



Be patient. Also, call the vet -- you will probably  be told to add some flax

seedoil or eggs to the pup's food. I had to have a mangy kitten shaved last

year, and it took a month or more -- much more for all the hair to grow back.



Also, I think that two dips are necessary, ask the vet. About 10 days apart,

IIRC.



         Anya  {{{*_*}}}

Visit my "Aromatherapy Debunked and Defended" site

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

Bob Marley and the Wailers album "Exodus"

named "Album of the Century" by Time magazine









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: doggy

From: herblady@newsguy.com (RastaPoodle)

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:26:55 GMT

--------

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:59:11 GMT, herblady@newsguy.com (RastaPoodle) wrote:



>

>Be patient. Also, call the vet -- you will probably  be told to add some flax

>seedoil or eggs to the pup's food. I had to have a mangy kitten shaved last

>year, and it took a month or more -- much more for all the hair to grow back.



Forgot to mention -- go to my cats webpage to see pics of the poor shaved

kitty. He looked so bad the first week, I ddn't take pics. He was so bad, the

skin on his face was furrowed into deep wrinkles by the mange mites. He was

four months old when I adopted him from the alley, and had been suffering for

months, poor thing.



He now has the most beautiful coat you ever saw.



         Anya  {{{*_*}}}

Visit my "Aromatherapy Debunked and Defended" site

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

Bob Marley and the Wailers album "Exodus"

named "Album of the Century" by Time magazine









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Bay tree...

From: Tazaria <ronbrown@bigpond.net.au>

Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:36:40 GMT

--------

hi,



I was wondering whether it was possible to 'strike' bay shoots from a

larger bay tree to create new plants. Alternately, is there any other

way to propogate bay without having to wait for a new little plant to

grow tall enough? I basically want plants that are about hip height so

that I can make a bay topiary, and I my local nursery only has *really*

little (ankle height) plants. My mother-in-law on the other hand, has a

lovely establised tree in her back yard, and I'd love to be able to take

cuttings off that..



Thanks,



Tazaria







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Bay tree...

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:21:35 GMT

--------





Wakefield wrote:



>    When I tried this with Laurus nobilis this spring, I was unable to root

> cuttings- but I hadn't any Rootone at that time. You might have better luck

> with air/layering or bending brances down to root in the soil and then

> detach. I have a feeling they are slow to induce roots, but I bet you can do

> it.

>



Here in the Northeast we don't have bay, Laurus Nobilis, but some of us have

been successful with anchoring rhododendron lower branches into the soil with

"hairpins" made of "U's" cut off of wire coathangers and having new plants in

about 3 years.  ( Our bay leaf comes dried in a fairly expensive supermarket

jar, sigh)

Good luck,

Marcia

---







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Bay tree...

From: "Susan L. Nielsen" <snielsen@orednet.org>

Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:13:10 -0700

--------

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Wakefield wrote:



> "Tazaria" <ronbrown@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message

> news:3B750949.C9658A2@bigpond.net.au...

> hi,

>

> I was wondering whether it was possible to 'strike' bay shoots from a

> larger bay tree to create new plants.



I have had luck rooting Laurus nobilis just by sticking a broken

piece into the ground and keeping it watered. Do be certain you

have at least one node underground. It takes a while...



Susan

--

Susan Nielsen, Shambles Workshops      		|"...Gently down the  

Beavercreek, OR, USA -- snielsen@orednet.org  	|stream..." -- Anon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------	

Purveyors of fine honey, Jacob Sheep, Ashford spinning products

			and Interweave books









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: fennel

From: schatz1@ptdprolog.net

Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:00:02 GMT

--------

Does anyone have any ways I can use fennel, like side dishes etc..







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: fennel

From: "Haele" <hazeling@adnc.com>

Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:56:02 -0700

--------

Stuff the "heart" (base of the stalk) of fennel with diced mushrooms, cooked

chicken, roma or brandywine tomatoes, prepared (boiled and drained) brown

rice and  "elephant" garlic, in a "flavoring" mixture with (appx 1/3 cup)

olive oil, a bit (around 1tsp) of balsamic vinegar, and a pinch of mustard

per cup of mixture (my boyfriend likes to add capers and chopped pimentos to

this).

Put in a low pan that is "drizzled" with olive oil. Bake in an preheated

oven around 325 degrees for twenty-five - thirty minutes.  After fifteen

minutes of baking, brush hearts with a bit more olive oil and cover with

shredded asengo or mozzarella cheese, if desired.  Let sit for two minutes

before serving.  Fennel "hearts" should be slightly browned and tender and

cheese (if added) should be bubbly..

(the basic mixture for this is also good in stuffed artichokes and zucchini)



Another way to cook that recipe is to use the above stuffing mixture and

bake in a casserole(without the fennel hearts), adding 1 tsp of fennel to

the mix for the fennel "flavoring".



Fennel is also good mixed with rosemary, lemon and oil on chicken or fish.

I've added it to a pea and onion mix that is served with alot of  butter or

"cream" sauce.



Haele



schatz1@ptdprolog.net wrote in message <3B750DBA.BAE2DF7C@ptdprolog.net>...

>Does anyone have any ways I can use fennel, like side dishes etc..

>













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: fennel

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:27:12 GMT

--------





schatz1@ptdprolog.net wrote:



> Does anyone have any ways I can use fennel, like side dishes etc..



I have had it sauteed as a side dish...( well, that restaurant

folded...)interesting, but why not use it as a seasoning with quiet

vegetables like slices of zucchini or yellow squash and green and yellow

beans?  It should do well as 10 to 20% of a medley of any group of

vegetables.

Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Acid Reflux due to Hiatus Hernia

From: "Margaret Rothwell" <margaret@rothwell5.freeserve.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:01:54 +0100

--------

Every pharmacutical drug I have been prescribed has had bad side effects. Is

anything herbal recommended for this condition?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Acid Reflux due to Hiatus Hernia

From: hherbalone@aol.com (HHerbalOne)

Date: 12 Aug 2001 10:45:08 GMT

--------

>From: "Margaret Rothwell" margaret@rothwell5.freeserve.co.uk 



>Every pharmacutical drug I have been prescribed has had bad side effects. Is

>anything herbal recommended for this condition?



Mine got better when I quit eating refined foods (white bread, white rice,

etc.),  and sugars.  Actually, the Sugar-Buster's Diet fits the bill nicely.



I also quit drinking with meals and drank a mixture of red-raspberry leaf and

red clover tea, cutting out all soft-drinks, etc.



H.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Acid Reflux due to Hiatus Hernia

From: "judy barrett" <poet5@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:40:04 -0400

--------

Hi Margaret,

I have had reflux for several years, and I asked the same question on this

list and got some helpful answers. The two things that worked best for me

are activated charcoal and red clover tea.



I have my biggest meal of the day at supper time, I know it should be

otherwise, but my work schedule won't let me have the largest meal in the

middle of the day. I take two capsules of the charcoal right after supper.

I also use the red clover tea whenever I can, or I use the clover in

capsules when I am traveling or can't manage to make the tea.



Stay away from the mint family  those good tasting herbs make reflux worse.



I am taking prilosec  but it has not been the whole answer. When I added the

herbs, plus a good calcium magnesium  supplement, I started getting better.

The last time I had myself checked, the doctor said that the swelling was

gone, and only the redness was left. I told him about the herbs, and he

said, "just keep doing what you are doing it's working."



My next checkup is in September, and I will  see what is happening then. I

never had burning  the condition showed up as a cough that would not go

away. I have not had the cough for a long time which is a good sign.



I hope this helps



all blessings

Judy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Acid Reflux due to Hiatus Hernia

From: Marcia Grossbard <catsie@mediaone.net>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:40:09 GMT

--------





Margaret Rothwell wrote:



> Every pharmacutical drug I have been prescribed has had bad side effects. Is

> anything herbal recommended for this condition?



You can try slippery elm and maybe some fenugreek,--( I've used the capsules).

You can add tinctures of things that help the gall bladder and liver to one

empty tincture bottle and have two to three drops in a glass of water. They all

help a little, and aloevera gel ( not whole herb) or gel in capsules will help a

little also, but you would probably to do better with some introspective

scanning on whether you may need to be treating an ulcer with prescription

antibiotic from your primary care specialist and/or garlic with a bismuth liquid

like the American (nci) soothing PeptoBismol ( and/or generic copies), if you

have right side biliary cholic, or whether you are like me, and side effect or

no side effect, during "mean" episodes, use Zantac (ranitidine) (nci) which is

my most effective treatment. (Been there)

Good luck,

Marcia

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Acid Reflux due to Hiatus Hernia

From: "Kayla" <mintkay@yahoo[nospam].com>

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:51:34 GMT

--------

Hi,



I took a teaspoon of fresh ginger juice every morning on an empty stomach.

I wouldn't eat anything for about an hour afterwards.



I also started taking turmeric tablets with me whenever I ate out and took

one before my meal and drank nothing else during my meals.



Both helped tremendously.



A couple other things I did was start yoga and limit fatty foods.



Also, a while back I found sites and forums in regards to this.  Here is

one:



http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/herbal/msg0420261012563.html



Kayla









"Margaret Rothwell" <margaret@rothwell5.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message

news:9l5k7k$v35$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Every pharmacutical drug I have been prescribed has had bad side effects.

Is

> anything herbal recommended for this condition?

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Acid Reflux due to Hiatus Hernia

From: "Margaret Rothwell" <margaret@rothwell5.freeserve.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:36:30 +0100

--------

Thanks for all the advice folks--I now have confidence that I can control

this condition









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Potted Burdock

From: "Michelle" <nospammichelle@wyatt88.freeserve.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:52:49 +0100

--------

Does anyone sell live burdock via mail order



Cheers

Michelle



--

I have a website at http://michelle494.friendpages.com/   that tells you all

about me!!









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Potted Burdock

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:12:07 +0300

--------

"Michelle" <nospammichelle@wyatt88.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:



>Does anyone sell live burdock via mail order



Probably not, because it's a biennial with a taproot, thus not too easy to

transplant. Seeds, now, should be pretty easy to find. And all burdocks (Arctium

spp.) work.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Potted Burdock

From: "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:14:03 -0400

--------

I don't know about the biennial part - I have one that comes up in exactly

the same place every year (despite my best efforts -- east TN, USA).  Being

biennial would not stop someone from selling it in a pot (look at all the

foxglove sold in bloom each year (just in time to go to seed and die).

However, that doesn't mean it would be a good investment - seeds from

someone that has it already would be the way to go.



"Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:b6ldntgeg3m0nir7vrc7bb77jr19atmhmv@4ax.com...

> "Michelle" <nospammichelle@wyatt88.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>

> >Does anyone sell live burdock via mail order

>

> Probably not, because it's a biennial with a taproot, thus not too easy to

> transplant. Seeds, now, should be pretty easy to find. And all burdocks

(Arctium

> spp.) work.

>

> Cheers

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: Dr Corinne B Leek <cleek@ns.sympatico.ca>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:32:05 GMT

--------

On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:35:14 -0500, "SGilbertson" aka Zoe

<slg@chorus.net> wrote:



>Just in case you're not sure how to do cut and paste, you need to select the

>part you want to forward, then copy it into a new message to send where you

>want.  If you use Microsoft's Outlook Express, highlight what you want to

>copy, then press Copy (or Ctrl C).  Then open your new message and copy the

>selection into it by pressing Paste (or Ctrl V).



Following are responses I received from the individual in question

when I attempted to help assist her understanding, per her wish that

these emails be posted to this group (apologies in advance for the

length):



>From cleek@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Aug 09 21:36:27 2001

On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:14:11 -0400, you wrote in alt.folklore.herbs:



>I was not aware

>that sending attachments is 'forbidden'. Forbidden by whom?

All and sundry.

Seriously.

It is not an acceptable thing because only certain newsgroups are

set-up to handle such things and folks who use them are aware that

binaries are there.  

On text only newsgroups, many folks, self included, do not get any

"fancy stuff" except as gobbledy-gook.  

Which pisses us off if we are paying for the download. 

 And not all of us are from the USofA where such things seem to be

"free".

So it makes us want to charge the "offender" for the cost of the

unwarranted download in an area where downloads are "Verboten".

Bandwidth is to be protected at all costs by all.  Because an

overcrowded bandwidth means tha the whole Internet is clogged and no

one gets their newsgroup or email because the traffic is so high.  

The onset of the gawddamned MS Outlook has really made a ****BIG****

clog in the system because of all the shit that it sends.  It is also

the prime target of virus/worm authors and a major propagator of such

dangers.

The thing about quoting/including entire previous posts is related.

Very annoying to those who have to pay for downloads.  Very.

Just as an FYI and not a personal attack.

You seem to be one who is somewhat knowledgable about herbs and very

not so re: computers and the 'Net.

Best wishes.





>From heretik@loa.com Fri Aug 10 21:57:47 2001



You seem to be one who is somewhat knowledgable about herbs and very

not so re: computers and the 'Net.



   Well, I'll certainly go for the 2nd half of that statement. I'm

very much fly-by-the-seat- of-my-pants in the puter milieu- always

amazed if something works. Never took a course. Started in DOS- no,

actually started with a Commodore plus4, then a 64, then into compaqs-

now a progen that i bought off my exchange student. But I don't have

any degree of independence of operating systems, no clue of linux or

c+ or any of that- and barely manage to communicate. Add to that

fatigue- and my learning curve is pretty flat.

But at least I get to talk to you'all, and I like that. This is a

great learning environment.

-- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

refuses to stay between the lines when parking --





>From cleek@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Aug 11 20:32:58 2001

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:57:47 -0400, you wrote:



>

>You seem to be one who is somewhat knowledgable about herbs and very

>not so re: computers and the 'Net.

>

>   Well, I'll certainly go for the 2nd half of that statement. I'm very much

>fly-by-the-seat- of-my-pants in the puter milieu- always amazed if something

>works. Never took a course. Started in DOS- no, actually started with a

>Commodore plus4, then a 64, then into compaqs- now a progen that i bought

>off my exchange student. But I don't have any degree of independence of

>operating systems, no clue of linux or c+ or any of that- and barely manage

>to communicate. Add to that fatigue- and my learning curve is pretty flat.

>But at least I get to talk to you'all, and I like that. This is a great

>learning environment.

That's all very nice, but did you understand what I tried to explain

re: the 'Net and why inappropriate binaries and excessive quoting is

actually theft from those who have to pay for download time, including

emails/usenet?

Will you try to modify your posts accordingly?





>From heretik@loa.com Sat Aug 11 21:55:52 2001



   Absoulutely not. I am stealing from no one and will not be dictated

to while I am engage in freedom of speech. This is guaranteed in my

country and I am operating in my country. When you are able to obtain

some type of international legislation against my activities, I will

modify them accordingly. Until then you are attempting to restrict my

freedom of expression in a way that is unwelcome and probably illegal.

Kindly cease. If I had the ability to make these last 2 posts public

to the group- as you all have so KINDLY made plain that you do not

like how I did that before- I would surely publish them there. You may

do that if you like. DO NOT attempt to restrict my freedom of

expression. If I leave a footnote in a message that is how I intend it

to be read. If you don't like it, Don't read my posts. Having you not

read my posts does not bother me in the least. Having you attempt to

browbeat me into curtailing my method of communication for your

convenience CERTAILY DOES. I take it for granted that all of us spend

something on our communications devices- that includes the initial

investment, price of an ISP, and whatever other expenses you are lucky

or unlucky enough to encounter. I choose what expenses I like, you

choose what expenses you like. If my posts are too expensive, pray do

not read them. You have the technology, I am sure.





-- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

refuses to stay between the lines when parking --







--

*** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger!

*** cleek@ns.sympatico.ca





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:34:28 +0300

--------

Dr Corinne B Leek <cleek@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:



>That's all very nice, but did you understand what I tried to explain

>re: the 'Net and why inappropriate binaries and excessive quoting is

>actually theft from those who have to pay for download time, including

>emails/usenet?

>Will you try to modify your posts accordingly?

>

>

>From heretik@loa.com Sat Aug 11 21:55:52 2001

>

>   Absoulutely not. I am stealing from no one and will not be dictated

>to while I am engage in freedom of speech. This is guaranteed in my



Extremely helpful attitude, eh? You're plonked for good, heretik. Good riddance.



Cheers

Henriette, who pays for her internet connection by the minute; but there are

still those who pay by the byte.



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: cyli@tiny.net

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:24:43 -0500

--------

You admit that you're not good at 'this stuff', but refuse to take

advice on it?



Learn about the 'Net and what is and is not acceptable.  Or you'll be

killfiled by all the people you'd most want to write to/read from.



If you can't tell the difference between Henriette's FAQs and your

attempts at binaries and overly long quotes, you'd really better learn

quickly.



BTW, whatever you had quoted was in some odd style that didn't make it

through my newsreader when trying to respond.



On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:01:36 -0400, "Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com>

wrote:



>   Yes well, when it comes to this stuff I am such a moron...I will see if I

>can do this at some point when I am not totally brain dead. Srating with

>printing it out as a recipt to follow, cuz I won't be able to remember it.

>Later, later. I have to get up at 5am. But thanks.



---

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:19:50 -0400

--------

Vixen,



Enough already. Give the guy a break. He didn't try to send a "binary" -

your system simply thought it was such. It WAS an attachment. Some versions

of Outlook name the saved emails as .EML (mine uses .TXT, it is full

version). The .EML files are in a proprietary format, requires Outlook to

read. But, it is a text file (and, technically, binaries are just

collections of data, as are all text files). So, yes, they are useless to

most. Of course, most of us can figure out to skip any attachments we don't

have a reader for.  Personally, I'm tired of downloading the FAQ over and

over. They are quite long. For the sake of those who pay by the download -

such as EU readers - the FAQ should be posted on the web and only links to

them posted periodically. No other group I monitor (not a great number, I

will admit, but I've outgrown spending my life tied to a newsreader) post

the FAQ's in full so often (if ever).



It is no wonder that those who are attacked become defensive. Those of us

who have been on the net for years, yes it is old hat and old arguments.

Those who are truly new (thousands of them every day) don't need to have

someone flaming them out their first time out. Newbies are no longer college

kids that shrug off such antics.  Think about how your grandmother or

grandfather (and if you never had such, my regrets for your loss) would feel

if you did such a thing? Seniors are one of the largest growing segments on

the net these days.  Gentle guidance is not only more effective, it prevents

LONG drawn out threads, such as this one.  If you don't have the energy to

help the newbie, just ignore them. Without anyone attacking them, most fade

away after getting the answer to their questions.  Others aren't truly

newbies and thrive on robbing you of your life energy and time in attempts

to make them conform (in this case, think about your kid brother/sister and

how he/she tried to drive you crazy in high school). In either case, as

experienced as you are, I'm sure you know how to add them to your ignore

list. I can only assume you like the arguing, depite your claims otherwise.



Go out and have some fun, rather than continuing this.



<cyli@tiny.net> wrote in message

news:nd4mntcmi53vido1o3u76l1as74neb6tt1@4ax.com...

> You admit that you're not good at 'this stuff', but refuse to take

> advice on it?

>

> Learn about the 'Net and what is and is not acceptable.  Or you'll be

> killfiled by all the people you'd most want to write to/read from.

>

> If you can't tell the difference between Henriette's FAQs and your

> attempts at binaries and overly long quotes, you'd really better learn

> quickly.

>

> BTW, whatever you had quoted was in some odd style that didn't make it

> through my newsreader when trying to respond.

>

> On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:01:36 -0400, "Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com>

> wrote:

>

> >   Yes well, when it comes to this stuff I am such a moron...I will see

if I

> >can do this at some point when I am not totally brain dead. Srating with

> >printing it out as a recipt to follow, cuz I won't be able to remember

it.

> >Later, later. I have to get up at 5am. But thanks.

>

> ---

> rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

> http://www.visi.com/~cyli









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:40:33 +0300

--------

"NA" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:



Are you sure you're not generating bounces and spam for the postmaster/abuse

desk at nowhere.com?



If you're not sure it'd be better to use things like nospam@nowhere.com.nospam

which _really_ isn't a real domain. IIRC the .nospam ending is generally

approved among sysadmins.



You could also get a throwaway (but real) account at hotmail or yahoo or such.



And sure, I could be wrong, and you've signed up for an account with nowhere.com

(or tucows, which owns the domain), but I've never munged my email address, so I

don't know too much about the do's and don't's of it. Anyway,

http://www.nowhere.com looks like a real site, even if whois.org didn't give

very good info on it. Except that it's owned by tucows.



And I would have emailed you this bit, but you don't give a valid return address

anywhere. Tsk tsk. The usual spot for it is the Reply-to -field, which is

generally ignored by spammer bots.



>have a reader for.  Personally, I'm tired of downloading the FAQ over and

>over. They are quite long. For the sake of those who pay by the download -

>such as EU readers - the FAQ should be posted on the web and only links to

>them posted periodically. 



Finland is in Europe, too. Up here we pay either the phone company or the phone

company _and_ the ISP by the minute, and yes, that goes for local calls, too.



Not everybody has web access, even yet, which is why a lot of FAQ maintainers

(including me) still post the full things to their target newsgroups.



Agent is quite a versatile newsreader. If I wanted to I could, for instance, set

it to ignore long articles ("don't download articles longer than ___ lines") -

and this can be set to different article lengths for different newsgroups.



Something similar should be found in outlook express, too.



>No other group I monitor (not a great number, I

>will admit, but I've outgrown spending my life tied to a newsreader) post

>the FAQ's in full so often (if ever).



Please check news.answers (or if you prefer a website: http://www.faqs.org ).

There you'll find _all_ official periodical usenet postings, including the

herbfaqs. You'll find that quite a lot of them are longer than the herbfaqs, and

quite a lot of those are posted more often than once a month.



Usenet FAQs are posted for usenet users to usenet; the web is just a nice extra,

but the real medium for usenet FAQs is -- usenet.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:38:56 +0200

--------

In France we pay by the hour for our service.  However, I have never

found Madame ou Mademoiselle Wakefields's postings too long.  In fact her's

are one of the few I find an interest in reading.  If one uses

outlook express they can pick and choose what they download.  If you don't

like attachments don't open them.  Outlook express indicates the length of

the message.  If it is too long for you don't down load it.



    James









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: Q Tip <temporaryaddy99@tds.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:42:41 -0400

--------

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:40:33 +0300, Henriette Kress > wrote:



> but I've never munged my email address, so I

>don't know too much about the do's and don't's of it. 



A mung should be on the right hand side of the "@" to prevent your ISP

from having to handle the bounces.  It is as effective (ineffective?)

there as on the left, and no more (or less) annoying to those trying to

email you.  The only exception are _reverse_ spam blocks, where the

apparent mung is a valid part of your email address.



>And I would have emailed you this bit, but you don't give a valid return address

>anywhere.



Invalid addresses should end with ".invalid"  Invalid is reserved for

this, and unlike other currently unused names, will never become valid

in the future.



>Agent is quite a versatile newsreader.



:-)



>Please check news.answers (or if you prefer a website: http://www.faqs.org ).

>There you'll find _all_ official periodical usenet postings, including the

>herbfaqs. 



Minor nit.  The only thing that makes a FAQ "official" is acceptance by

the users of a group.  The moderators of news.answers are now asking

that this be included in the sub headers of new FAQs.

"Disclaimer: Approval for *.answers is based on form, not content."



>You'll find that quite a lot of them are longer than the herbfaqs, and

>quite a lot of those are posted more often than once a month.



True and true.  Not aware of single one posted _less_ often than once a

month.



>Usenet FAQs are posted for usenet users to usenet; the web is just a nice extra,

>but the real medium for usenet FAQs is -- usenet.



Amen!  The web is for wieners<g>



>Cheers



Back at you...

-- 

Q Tip





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 17 Aug 2001 08:20:28 GMT

--------

from Henriette:



>Are you sure you're not generating bounces and spam for the postmaster/abuse

>desk at nowhere.com?



>If you're not sure it'd be better to use things like nospam@nowhere.com.nospam

>which _really_ isn't a real domain. IIRC the .nospam ending is generally

>approved among sysadmins.



>You could also get a throwaway (but real) account at hotmail or yahoo or such.



I remember reading that the approved fake domain is .invalid, as in

nospam@nowhere.com.invalid.  Or maybe .nospam now shares that approval?



Now from "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>:



>I lose preceding messages after a period of time.  In a fast moving group

>they can go quite quickly,  though it seems if I've been following a thread

>and have read all the messages I don't lose anything, since I guess they're

>copied onto the computer somewhere anyway.



Do you lose messages that have been downloaded to your computer disk?



Now from nospam@nowhere.com:



>Enough already. Give the guy a break. He didn't try to send a "binary" -

>your system simply thought it was such. It WAS an attachment. Some versions

>of Outlook name the saved emails as .EML (mine uses .TXT, it is full

>version). The .EML files are in a proprietary format, requires Outlook to

>read. But, it is a text file (and, technically, binaries are just

>collections of data, as are all text files). So, yes, they are useless to

>most. Of course, most of us can figure out to skip any attachments we don't

>have a reader for.

(snip)



As far as I know, anything uuencoded or base64-encoded is considered binary.

Preferred style is one-part plain-text that everybody can read.  Once, my news

download included a 210 KB message in alt.support.asthma that consisted mainly

of a base64-encoded MS-Word .doc attachment, and I had nothing that could read

MS-Word .doc files.  Even if I had the software to read MS-Word .doc files, I

might not want to incur the risk of a possible embedded macro virus.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: cyli@tiny.net

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:41:18 -0500

--------

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:19:50 -0400, "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:



.  Gentle guidance is not only more effective, it prevents

>LONG drawn out threads, such as this one.  If you don't have the energy to

>help the newbie, just ignore them. Without anyone attacking them, most fade

>away after getting the answer to their questions.  Others aren't truly

>newbies and thrive on robbing you of your life energy and time in attempts

>to make them conform (in this case, think about your kid brother/sister and

>how he/she tried to drive you crazy in high school). In either case, as

>experienced as you are, I'm sure you know how to add them to your ignore

>list. I can only assume you like the arguing, depite your claims otherwise.



Never claimed otherwise.  Nor thatwise.  It's been my first response

to Wakefield in about a year or however this no longer newbbie has

been on this newsgroup.

>

>Go out and have some fun, rather than continuing this.



And why are you* so into it?  Hmmmm?  Why don't you just go to email

with him and do your gentle guidance stuff and take care of it all in

your advised way?



---

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: Dr Corinne B Leek <cleek@ns.sympatico.ca>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:32:20 GMT

--------

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:41:18 -0500, cyli@tiny.net wrote:



>On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:19:50 -0400, "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:

>

>.  Gentle guidance is not only more effective, it prevents

>>LONG drawn out threads, such as this one. .....



<Chomp>



>And why are you* so into it?  Hmmmm?  Why don't you just go to email

>with him and do your gentle guidance stuff and take care of it all in

>your advised way?

The whole point of the initial post in this thread was that "gentle

guidance" **had** been attempted with this not-so-newbie.  

And that it was completely rebuffed.

Anonymous, aka "NA" <nospam@nowhere.com>, missed that point, it would

seem.



Dr Corinne B Leek

Nova Scotia



--

*** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger!

*** cleek@ns.sympatico.ca





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:28:52 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Wakefield <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:9llvd7$6m0$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

>  When someone tells me that my style of posting is

> 'theft' of bandwidth (???!!), 

> [...]

>    But the decision to try to cut down on your expenses- or general

> expenses- by going after individual posters and calling them 'thieves'-

> uh, does this seem a little- uh- WEIRD to anyone but me?



That notion made me reactive, too. 



Wakefield is right about the market aspects. The current bottom line is

that if you can't afford her expensive posts, you should not download

them. No matter, be it inconvenient or inefficient to the Usenet consumer,

production of an expensive Usenet post is not 'theft', not even

metaphorically. Socially understood, it's still too strong. Wakefield

did not agree to join a commune with understood scarcity and rationing.



This position is further reinforced by the emerging doctrine of

client-side responsibility for information content filtering. (Yes, that's

a trend toward some point of balance, not an absolute.) 



*******************

> The system is designed to allow communication- but then some people take 

> it upon themselves to attempt to dictate how others may communicate. 



Thanks to my Rolfer, who worked in both Canada and the US, for the

following insight as to what's subconsciously behind the a.f.h 

"Comfey Flame War" (there's an oxymoron):



Foreign friends should keep in mind that working US Americans have no

right to national health care. (The retired do.) It makes folks here tense

when they repress the reality that they can slip from middle class to the

street, carrying all their possessions in a shopping cart, should they

become injured or chronically ill. 



But, oh yes, at least we have the freedom to talk, pray, and create art

about how unhappy we are. Or freedom to create symbols about anything else

that will take our minds off the fact that we can't afford to go to the

doctor, or pay for pills to relieve the rheumatism/whatever, that makes us

so crabby. 



So, many US Americans do not react well during attempts to conform them to

socialized limits on expressive writing, in either length or style. We're

raised this way. 



And in those cases where your expenses are -clearly- not at issue, 

my visceral response to being dictated to about my posting format by an

advisory FAQ and net-gods (even good ones :)  is something like the

cinema dialog of:



"I'm a @#$%^&*! professional at writing, and I've got &^%$#!

free-expression rights because I'm <***USA Nationalism Stuff***>!"



You know... something like how the French and Quebecois feel about being

coerced to patronize "Le Drugstore". 



*******************

> Try to get something going with the phone company, the

> local computer store, or the cable company to decrease charges.

> Granted these options may not work for my buddy over in India.



Or organize as consumers to demand subsidized flat rate Internet service

from your parliamentary government (I wish we had one). This situation in

Europe may yet improve.



I did not know that anyone outside the third world was paying for Usenet

by the minute. The old Fido or WWIV per-minute long distance telephone

nets disappeared around here when my WWIV sysop friend quit in 1994. I

write a lot, but so far only during the months in which I have time and

connectivity. I hope I don't get too per-minute expensive for those in

a net-regressive situation. 



I usually snip as I go, but I long ago realized that some other people are

not going to do this and I stopped thinking about it. When reading Google

Newsgroup Archives, it turns out to be handy that some people don't snip,

because other people don't archive. The strength of an ecology rests in

diversity. Fields of identical hybrid corn plants require more pesticides. 

Excessive Usenet conformity at least requires more admin management time

for those who choose to participate in threads like this one. 



*******************

> I habitually use footnotes. I was brought up in research where 

> footnotes are expected. I also have seen many times when preceding 

> posts unexpectedly disappear, and so useful info in following 

> the thread (if you were interested, and otherwise WHY would you be

> reading..) is lost unless it is appended.



Whether I post at the top, middle, or bottom is partly determined by the

newsreader I'm using, and partly by the content. 



A threaded newsreader with suppressed headers like Outlook Express tends

to discourage me from quoting at the top. When I'm clicking through post

after post on the same topic, I want to read the next response without

rereading previous material. I do want that quoted previous material at

the bottom for reference if I lose the sense of what someone is writing

about. 



An unthreaded newsreader with random topics (and maybe a threaded one with

many missing posts) makes me want to post at the bottom of short posts or

in the middle of longer ones, because I need my memory refreshed more

often. 



When I'm responding in a general way (e.g., to "What herbs for

hangnails?"), I don't want to quote at the top because it's either obvious

from the subject line or obvious from my response, (e.g., "Existing

hangnails respond much better to surgery than herbs, but to not care about

them, you might try Herbal Ecstasy."). 



When I respond to a specific passage I want to quote at the top, post in

the middle, and quote anything remaining at the bottom. This can produce

context problems unless I requote the entire post at the bottom. But ok, I

guess my quoted context problems in a.f.h are of less importance than your

per-minute download time. 



I really dislike searching to read the new response at the bottom of a

long quoted post, so I'm certainly not going to bottom-post like that. If

long posts need to be quoted in entirety (sometimes true), I'm going to

put them at the bottom. Also, I think Reply Button Newbies may do this

instinctively.



-- Oh, maybe I can conjure some pro-forma compromises. Like quote a

keyphrase, when I otherwise would have just top posted.--



*******************

> Or dictating that all posts- 

> achtung! may be only 3 paragraphs long ...

^^^^^^^^^^ <======

Hmm... Does this mention invoke Godwin's Law? 



Sean

---







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: Dr Corinne B Leek <cleek@ns.sympatico.ca>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:26:16 GMT

--------

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:28:52 -0400 (EDT), Foxfire

<foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:



>news:9llvd7$6m0$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

>>  When someone tells me that my style of posting is

>> 'theft' of bandwidth (???!!), 

>> [...]

>>    But the decision to try to cut down on your expenses- or general

>> expenses- by going after individual posters and calling them 'thieves'-

>> uh, does this seem a little- uh- WEIRD to anyone but me?

>

>That notion made me reactive, too. 

>

>Wakefield is right about the market aspects. The current bottom line is

>that if you can't afford her expensive posts, you should not download

>them. No matter, be it inconvenient or inefficient to the Usenet consumer,

>production of an expensive Usenet post is not 'theft', not even

>metaphorically. Socially understood, it's still too strong. Wakefield

>did not agree to join a commune with understood scarcity and rationing.

I suppose neither of you saw my use of the term "inappropriate"

referring to posting of either binaries or excessive quoting in my

original missive?



This newsgroup is not a binaries newsgroup.

Many newsreaders give no choice about downloading posts if one wishes

to follow a thread - if that post has an inappropriate binary, then,

yes.  I stand by my wording of "theft" - harsh as it may seem.

Excessive quoting - I have seen posts in excess of 500 lines with a

one line response.  **That** is absurd, and inappropriate.  Especially

if the individual involved is only doing it from laziness.  Such is

not courteous.

Courtesy and consideration are really all that is being requested.

Consideration that not all are as blessed as those of your particular

society, whatever it might be, with whatever social baggage it may/may

not have.  

And for those who do not take the time to fully learn the use of their

newsreader?  That's also laziness.



But there is far more to this than simple download time for each

individual.  And that's the issue of bandwidth.  If everyone clogs the

lines with inappropriate binaries or excessive quoting, that means

that it becomes more difficult to gain access for everyone and the

entire system slows/gets bogged down.  

Similar to bumper-to-bumper traffic on the Interstate highways you

folks have down in the States.

Then *everyone* suffers.

Wasteful.



sigh.

I guess I just remember the "Good Ol' Days" when all on the 'Net were

highly conscious of everyone's download time and bandwidth usage.



Dr Corinne B Leek

Nova Scotia



--

*** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger!

*** cleek@ns.sympatico.ca





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: "Deb" <debra@teleport.com>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:22:39 -0700

--------

I think what Louise is referring to is the newsfeed not being

consistent.  We are on an alt.* group and they are often not carried

by all the feeds.  It is the nature of Usenet that some of the posts

get lost, some get trashed.  It is to be expected that some of the

postings make it around the world faster than the one sent ten minutes

ago.  ;>    If the feeder line has a problem and needs to clean up

some server space they will often trash the alt.* groups.  I know of

one ISP that doesn't carry any alt.* because it is too much 'noise'.

If your ISP uses more than one feed, some of the missed posts might

turn up, but they will be out of order on the thread.  Check google or

whatever took over for dejanews and compare how many postings are

there against how many you see.  The difference is why  I am looking

to change ISP's.



As for as the topic of this thread, after reading miles and miles of

'right way' & 'my way' opinions, I guess I'll give mine.  ;>



The worst way to post is to type a line or two that have no reference

to what you are responding to.   ;>    I'm sure I'm not the only one

who has seen those posts.  The second worst is to quote a large post

so you can add a 'me too'.



I hate to page down for the new post.  Since I'm now using Outlook

(not Express) I don't have the option of the previous post being just

a click away as it was on Netscape.  So-- I do appreciate the

'footnote' just in case I haven't read the original post, but putting

the 'footnote' at the top so we all have to page down through it is a

pain.  Foxfire had quite a sensible approach, and I too will often

post in the middle.  Sometimes it just makes more sense, especially if

there are several items to address.



Just because the 'tradition' is to post at the end, doesn't mean it is

the 'right' way or the only acceptable way.  Maybe its time Usenet

readers grew a bit and became more flexible.  I've seen this topic

come up many times over the years, but never seen it carried on for so

long.



Now that the bandwidth has been crowded for days in response to

someone complaining about the bandwidth usage, can we please get back

to herbs?



Deb

--

If I ran the world, we'd all face different challenges.  ;>





Thomas Mueller <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

news:9lt5rj$b7h8j$2@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

> Excerpt from L Wakefield:

>

> >   Now THIS is fascinating as an example of the 'fits and starts'

of either

> >outlook express OR my ISP- I can't tell which. My post came thru,

then I got

> >Sean's in my individual inbox- but not on my newsgroup- then I got

Corinne's

> >response to Seans- quoting him- on my newsgroup. So this implies

that some

> >of the newsgroup got Sean's post- but I didn't see it on the

newsgroup. More

> >evidence as to why I include quotes.

> >   I still have no clue as to what a binary is- I gather it may be

a message

> >with an attachment

> (snip)

>

> Binary refers to a file or message not viewable as plain text, such

as an

> executable file, graphic image, sound file, etc.  Most binary

newsgroups have

> names beginning with alt.binaries.  I have never gone there, with

neither

> software nor hardware really up to exploring those newsgroups, nor

the desire to

> waste a lot of time.  From what I hear, there is a lot of sexy

stuff, but it's

> not all sex.

>

> News server is always or almost always not the same as the mail

server, and they

> use different ports: usually 119 for news, 25 for SMTP (sending

mail) and 110

> for POP3 (receiving mail).  Sending a message to a newsgroup and via

email

> requires two separate server accesses.  As for downloaded mail and

news messages

> going to the wrong directory or folder, I can't really tell whose

fault that is

> from my distant angle.  Any other Outlook (Express) users have

similar problems?

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: OT: Cut and paste (What's wrong with comfey??) (Long)

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 19 Aug 2001 11:11:36 GMT

--------



> Wakefield is right about the market aspects. The current bottom line is

> that if you can't afford her expensive posts, you should not download

> them.



I can't afford to buy any more computers or software and what I've got

only does all-or-nothing downloading.  The only I've alternatives I've

got are putting up with this selfish arsehole or unsubscribing.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Garlic for prostate i

From: George.Lagergren@juge.com (George Lagergren)

Date: 13 Aug 2001 06:08:56 GMT

--------

Alan Pollock <nexus@king.cts.com>  posted:     29  08-05-01  12:45



Ne> There'a a newsgroup for prostatitis, which is probably what you

Ne> folks are  describing.



Ne> sci.med.prostate.prostatitis has loads of useful info, anecdotal

Ne> and otherwise.



Ne> Quercetin is something to try by the way. It worked wonders for me.



    BTW, do you take quercetin in capsule form?  And how much quercetin

    do you take?



    Isn't quercitin also good for folks with allergies???????



... End  of  message                                   05 Aug 01  12:56

___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic for prostate i

From: Alan Pollock <nexus@king.cts.com>

Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:48:16 GMT

--------

George Lagergren <George.Lagergren@juge.com> wrote:

> Alan Pollock <nexus@king.cts.com>  posted:     29  08-05-01  12:45



> Ne> There'a a newsgroup for prostatitis, which is probably what you

> Ne> folks are  describing.



> Ne> sci.med.prostate.prostatitis has loads of useful info, anecdotal

> Ne> and otherwise.



> Ne> Quercetin is something to try by the way. It worked wonders for me.



>     BTW, do you take quercetin in capsule form?  And how much quercetin

>     do you take?







It was a while ago and I don't remember dosages; it's probably best to go to

sci.med.prostate.prostatitis, where folks discuss this day in, day out.



I _can_ tell you that quercetin comes in both caps and hard tablet form, and

that it should be taken with bromelain and/or papain for better absorption

(included in many brands). Nex





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: beats the pants off dry...

From: "whiteMemphis" <loom@alphalink.com.au>

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:17:24 +1000

--------

hi,

just harvested my first batch of fresh valerian root, found it very good,

much more effective than dried and *no stink*









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: beats the pants off dry...

From: "Mike" <comtrader@cox-internet.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:23:10 -0500

--------

Where do you find the seed/root to grow Valerian as well as the

instructions?

Thankyou.



"whiteMemphis" <loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message

news:3b789a09@news.alphalink.com.au...

> hi,

> just harvested my first batch of fresh valerian root, found it very good,

> much more effective than dried and *no stink*

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: beats the pants off dry...

From: "whiteMemphis" <loom@alphalink.com.au>

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:07:43 +1000

--------

I don't think you can grow it from seed, I got mine as a potted plant from a

herb nursery, and it has spread to quite a large clump, as far as

instructions, I didn't have any trouble with it, just shaded position, good

friable soil and a feed once in a while.  You do have to wait for it to

build up tho' before there is enough of it to start digging the roots, which

I do in winter when the plant is dormant and all the power is building up in

the roots.



"Mike" <comtrader@cox-internet.com> wrote in message

news:tnohv1sni0673d@corp.supernews.com...

> Where do you find the seed/root to grow Valerian as well as the

> instructions?

> Thankyou.

>

> "whiteMemphis" <loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message

> news:3b789a09@news.alphalink.com.au...

> > hi,

> > just harvested my first batch of fresh valerian root, found it very

good,

> > much more effective than dried and *no stink*

> >

> >

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: allergy to herbs

From: brenda@wallace.RemoveThis.net.nz (Brenda W)

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:29:33 GMT

--------

I am the leader of a girl guide group.

To earn a badge, the girls need to draw a picture using natural

materials, such as berries.. It's winter right now and berries are in

short supply, so we had a brain wave...

we're going to use herbal tea bags to create the dyes..



my question is, how common are allegies to the herbs i'm using? should

i be concerned??



I am using a Ginseng Tea for Red

St Johns wort tea for another red

green tea for green

echinacea tea for yellow.

and normal ceylon tea for brown...





I've ditched camomile as i thought there may be allergies (the colour

was pathetic anyways)





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:37:41 GMT

--------



> I am the leader of a girl guide group.  To earn a badge, the girls need

> to draw a picture using natural materials, such as berries. [...]

> my question is, how common are allegies to the herbs i'm using? should

> i be concerned??

> I am using a Ginseng Tea for Red

> St Johns wort tea for another red

> green tea for green

> echinacea tea for yellow.

> and normal ceylon tea for brown...

> I've ditched camomile as i thought there may be allergies (the colour

> was pathetic anyways)



Allergies are not common to any of those.  Pollens (and less commonly,

roots) of daisy-family plants can be allergenic but unless you already

know you have a child with something like ragwort allergy, don't worry

about it.  These allergies are not seriously hazardous anyway.



I'm allergic to echinacea myself but I've never heard of anyone else

who is.



Where in NZ are you?  Much of the North Island has a wide range of

different-coloured earths exposed at any road cutting (ash strata

from volcanic eruptions).  Mixing them with some sort of binder should

make them into usable paints.  Sulphur (lying around on the ground

near Rotorua) is another yellow pigment.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:10:15 -0400 (EDT)

--------

It's not technically an allergy, but St. Johns Wort is well-known for its

photosensitizing reaction. With either internal or external use one's skin

absorption of burning UV increases. 



I would be concerned about your girl guide artists getting St. Johns red

on the backs of their hands followed by sun exposure. Especially in the

ozone-depleted southern hemisphere, and especially since childhood

sunburns appear to create lifetime increases in the risk of skin cancer.



Not all St. Johns preparations necessarily have this property, but the red

dye might be the component responsible. Note how useful a UV increase can

be in the event of needing to reduce bacteria or viral count in a wound or

skin infection. It's a question of proper herbal respect and good timing.



Sean

---





Brenda W <brenda@wallace.RemoveThis.net.nz> wrote in message

news:3b78e083.613558@news.paradise.net.nz...

> I am the leader of a girl guide group.

> To earn a badge, the girls need to draw a picture using natural

> materials, such as berries.. It's winter right now and berries are in

> short supply, so we had a brain wave...

> we're going to use herbal tea bags to create the dyes..

> my question is, how common are allegies to the herbs i'm using? should

> i be concerned??

> I am using a Ginseng Tea for Red

> St Johns wort tea for another red

> green tea for green

> echinacea tea for yellow.

> and normal ceylon tea for brown...

> I've ditched camomile as i thought there may be allergies (the colour

> was pathetic anyways)







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:51:13 +0100

--------





Is there some sort of database or organisation dealing with herbs one could

report allergic or other adverse reactions to?   I've had quite bad

reactions to a few herbs which so far as I could discover were supposed to

cause no adverse reactions.   This could be so rare its hardly worth

bothering with, or it might not be, but how would we know unless there was

some system which could be used to report it?     If you are seeing a

practitioner then you could report it, but most people aren't.   ????









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: Linda Casey <lcasey@zetnet.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:20:34 +0100

--------

The message <gvae7.12336$v86.1678114@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>

  from  "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> contains these words: 



> Is there some sort of database or organisation dealing with herbs one could

> report allergic or other adverse reactions to?   I've had quite bad

> reactions to a few herbs which so far as I could discover were supposed to

> cause no adverse reactions.   This could be so rare its hardly worth

> bothering with, or it might not be, but how would we know unless there was

> some system which could be used to report it?     If you are seeing a

> practitioner then you could report it, but most people aren't.   ????



I heard on Radio 4 yesterday about a young doctor who is setting up 

such a database.  It's called Herbal Triangle.  Can't remember the 

web address but it's herbaltriangle dot something, probably .co.uk.  

Might be worth a look.



Linda







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:15:08 +0100

--------

I've just found the site; it's www.herbaltriangle.com , but seems to be only

for professionals to fill in on behalf of their patients..





"Linda Casey" <lcasey@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message

news:2001081422203469083@zetnet.co.uk...

>

> I heard on Radio 4 yesterday about a young doctor who is setting up

> such a database.  It's called Herbal Triangle.  Can't remember the

> web address but it's herbaltriangle dot something, probably .co.uk.

> Might be worth a look.

>

> Linda

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: Linda Casey <lcasey@zetnet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:31:35 +0100

--------

The message <VkAe7.2823$gF5.640084@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>

  from  "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> contains these words: 



> I've just found the site; it's www.herbaltriangle.com , but seems to be only

> for professionals to fill in on behalf of their patients..



Ah, that's not much help then really.  Maybe you could email them and 

ask?  It seems to be a very new site, so maybe they just haven't 

thought yet about the general public using it.



Linda







> "Linda Casey" <lcasey@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:2001081422203469083@zetnet.co.uk...

> >

> > I heard on Radio 4 yesterday about a young doctor who is setting up

> > such a database.  It's called Herbal Triangle.  Can't remember the

> > web address but it's herbaltriangle dot something, probably .co.uk.

> > Might be worth a look.

> >

> > Linda

> >



















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 15 Aug 2001 00:25:15 GMT

--------



> Is there some sort of database or organisation dealing with herbs one

> could report allergic or other adverse reactions to?   I've had quite

> bad reactions to a few herbs which so far as I could discover were

> supposed to cause no adverse reactions.



People can be allergic to anything in the vegetable kingdom.  Statistics

are of very little help; with food allergy, there are a few really major

allergens, but everything beyond that is a pile of idiosyncrasies.  How

on earth would you use a piece of information like "0.7% of users react

badly to pokeroot while only 0.6% do so to black cohosh"?  The relevant

populations aren't the entire human race, but much smaller subgroups,

e.g. people who get allergic asthma from ragwort or people with coeliac

disease.  And the numbers there are so small (if you consider only the

proportion who knowingly use a specific herb) that there aren't going to

be any significant statistics.  This is a matter for clinical experience.

I'd trust a good practicing herbalist *way* ahead of any database.



Anyway the Manufacturer isn't known for product recalls, unless He

realized a lot of people were going to be allergic to dodo egg.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:23:04 +0100

--------

hmmm, I'm no statistician, but  thought there must be something we could do

since most ppl who use herbs aren't seeing a professional herbalist.



Anyway you now know someone else who reacts badly to echinacea.   Me.

:o(







"bogus address" <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:8075@purr.demon.co.uk...

>

>

> People can be allergic to anything in the vegetable kingdom.  Statistics

> are of very little help; with food allergy, there are a few really major

> allergens, but everything beyond that is a pile of idiosyncrasies.  How

> on earth would you use a piece of information like "0.7% of users react

> badly to pokeroot while only 0.6% do so to black cohosh"?  The relevant

> populations aren't the entire human race, but much smaller subgroups,

> e.g. people who get allergic asthma from ragwort or people with coeliac

> disease.  And the numbers there are so small (if you consider only the

> proportion who knowingly use a specific herb) that there aren't going to

> be any significant statistics.  This is a matter for clinical experience.

> I'd trust a good practicing herbalist *way* ahead of any database.

>

> Anyway the Manufacturer isn't known for product recalls, unless He

> realized a lot of people were going to be allergic to dodo egg.











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:52:19 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Government agencies receive such reports, but I would discourage you from

routinely taking such an action. In many places these reports would mainly

be used by pharmaco$ to get more herbs banned or restricted. Is that what

you want? 



UK is relatively herb friendly since medical herbalism is legal there. So,

a private UK adverse herbal reaction database would seem a reasonable

middle ground.



If you have had more than two unexpected bad herbal reactions, this is a

strong hint to consider the possibility of your having low corticosteroid

adrenal hormone function (weak "Kidney" in TCM/CHM; low serum cortisol in

western biomedicine).  



Unless you are prepared for a steep learning curve leading into some

practitioner-level knowledge of licorice herbal formulations, perhaps

herbs are not for you. Megavitamin therapy and minimalist use of pharma

may be more appropriate for your body type. 



On the other hand, you have the good luck of (apparently) living in the

UK, so why not let a medical herbalist help you solve these problems? 



Sean

---





bryher <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:gvae7.12336$v86.1678114@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

> Is there some sort of database or organisation dealing with herbs one

> could

> report allergic or other adverse reactions to?   I've had quite bad

> reactions to a few herbs which so far as I could discover were supposed

> to

> cause no adverse reactions.   This could be so rare its hardly worth

> bothering with, or it might not be, but how would we know unless there

> was

> some system which could be used to report it?     If you are seeing a

> practitioner then you could report it, but most people aren't.   ????









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:17:14 +0100

--------













I have seen a medical herbalist & reacted badly to her herb combinations...

reported back & was given another & reacted badly to that.   Didn't go back

again as it was starting to get expensive!  These were combinations of about

half a dozen different herbs so could have been one of them or all of them.



> > UK is relatively herb friendly since medical herbalism is legal there.

So,

> a private UK adverse herbal reaction database would seem a reasonable

> middle ground.<



mmm, something like that.  I'm aware that info could be used as ammunition.

I think I would hope that common sense would prevail ..



I have come across one or two other people who seemed to think echinacea

made their problems worse, & Jack also mentioned a bad reaction, which made

me think, well maybe its not quite so rare.



> If you have had more than two unexpected bad herbal reactions, this is a

> strong hint to consider the possibility of your having low corticosteroid

> adrenal hormone function (weak "Kidney" in TCM/CHM; low serum cortisol in

> western biomedicine).



That's a new one to me... any particular recommendations?  Can you be tested

for this.....?













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: allergy to herbs

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:18:35 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Lotsa questions --



bryher <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:l5ve7.1503$gF5.263891@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...

>

> I have seen a medical herbalist & reacted badly to her herb 

> combinations...  reported back & was given another & reacted badly 

> to that. Didn't go back again as it was starting to get expensive!  

 

What did the visits cost?



No names or locations please, but was it a big city/suburb or small

village? 



How did you decide to visit this particular herbalist?



Was the herbalist a recent graduate or of long experience? 



Was the herbalist primarily a Euro herbalist or Traditional Chinese

Medicine? Or one of the UK herbalists who combines both?



Did the herbalist perform a tongue inspection? (TCM/CHM 'always' do this.)



Did the herbalist study your conformation by asking questions about

whether you were generally hot or cold, and, dry or moist, and maybe, like

or dislike sour foods or bland foods (acid-base balance)?



> These were combinations of about half a dozen different herbs so 

> could have been one of them or all of them.



Were these standard premixed commercial formulas? Do you know the formulas

names? Do you have a list of the herbs in each? In particular, do you know

how much licorice by percentage was contained in each formula? 



What was your dose and schedule?



What were the symptoms of each herbal formula's adverse reaction?



> I have come across one or two other people who seemed to think 

> echinacea made their problems worse, & Jack also mentioned a bad 

> reaction, which made me think, well maybe its not quite so rare.



It is partly for this reason that I advocate "body typing", matching herbs

to particular subgroups of humans. Ayurvedic has a version of this using

questionnaires which I like. My current problem is that I lack a cross

reference from body types by percentage to recommended Ayurvedic herbs,

much less Euro or TCM herbs.



> Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote in message 

> news:Pine.LNX.3.96.1010814194428.15895A-100000@ASARian.org...

> > If you have had more than two unexpected bad herbal reactions, this 

> > is a strong hint to consider the possibility of your having low

> > corticosteroid adrenal hormone function (weak "Kidney" in TCM/CHM; 

> > low serum cortisol in western biomedicine).

> 

> That's a new one to me... any particular recommendations?  Can you be 

> tested for this.....? 



Yes, but it is costly and no one test gives certain results. Blood serum

cortisol has a circadian (daily) rhythm. About 2/3 of the daily total

appears around 8am, IF you are a normal night sleeper. About another 1/3

peaks at 1pm and gradually decreases in serum concentration until the next

morning. 



The morning-afternoon sample cortisol test is the least expensive. But if

one has any sleep disturbance whatever, or does night work, the more

expensive 24 hour samples test is to be greatly preferred. 



Another problem is that cortisol interacts with other hormones such as

aldosterone (water balance), thyroid (protein formation and some heat),

probably DHEA (adrenal androgen), and so on. If any of these hormones is

low, the others change in ways that aren't necessarily documented in

textbooks. In my own case, thyroid utilization to produce heat seems to be

reduced by low cortisol or DHEA or both.



Scout posted to a.f.h. earlier this month that saliva tests for cortisol,

DHEA, and melatonin are available by mail from "GreatSmokies", but I don't

know anything else about them or the quality of the tests.





If you *really* want to do-it-yourself, and take personal responsibility

for doctoring yourself, whether the results are good or bad...



.. well, you might read up on the theory of licorice root herb and its

traditional preparation. If you don't already have a tendency to edema or

holding water (moist conformation), you could microwave large batches of

licorice tea and gradually find out what your licorice limit is. My

reading is that the average person begins to get edema around 10 grams

daily of dried root, prepared as tea. 



If low cortisol is your problem, licorice might (or not) improve your

underlying condition, or at least make other herbs more tolerable. That is

why it is the world's most widely formulated herb, both in Euro and TCM

systems.





Sean

(Not A Doc And I May Be Wrong   :)

----------------------------------









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Focus Factor at www.vitalbasics.com Do not trust!!!

From: dotcom@txucom.net (Don)

Date: 14 Aug 2001 18:06:47 -0700

--------

Watch this company if you do business with them.  They work a couple

of different scams.  If you sign up for Focus Factor a memory enhancer

for 3 bottles @ $150+ they will automatically put you on a standing

reorder.  If you give them a credit card they will pass it around. 

They sent mine to one of their "shell" companies.  They then charged

me a fee to put me on this nice standing reorder.



I never authorized them to pass my credit card around to every Tom,

Dick, and shell company that they own.  I never authorized them to put

me on a standing order.  Yes, my memory is still good enough that I

know when a company is taking advantage of you and working a scam on

you.



What they do borders on being illegal.  They need to be nailed.  If

some lawyer reads this and wants to take them on, then let me know.



Their product is overpriced and was not any better than one from GVI a

similar product that was only 29.95 per bottle.  And you did not have

to take 6 of theirs each day like Focus Factor recommends.



If you have any comments or feedback on this let me know?  I would

like to hear if anyone else was screwed over by this company.  I think

they are basically a dishonest company that bilks people.  They are

very pushy to say the least.  And if I wanted to go down to their

level, I could put it rather nasty.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: How do I get the "good stuff" out???

From: "Patrick Cassidy" <patrick-cassidy@paoli.com>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:49:43 -0500

--------

I'm trying to make some salve or ointment for my poison ivy.

What is the procedure to extract the "good stuff" from  Jewelweed?  Also,

what can I mix with it to give the lotion a "gel" like texture?



Thanks

Patrick









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: How do I get the "good stuff" out???

From: "K Shelton" <karen@altnature.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:19:25 -0500

--------

I don't use salves or oil to make my Jewelweed remedies, afraid oil made

lead to spreading. To treat poison ivy just wash with the tea made from

boiling Jewelweed or if you have a food processor you can grind it up and

squeeze the juice out. Freeze what is let over for future use. Sorry can't

give out my remedy recipes but can tell you its more involved than you would

want to get into for home use. But also don't use alcohol with it cause it

may cause a bad reaction in some people.



One thing I have not tried yet is a Jewelweed infused vinegar for home use,

don't think it would have a long shelf life but should be very effective for

poison ivy and bug bites. Maybe if kept refrigerated.



Jewelweed is funny, it won't keep its properties when dried or left around

too long... even the tea will begin to mold in refrigerator after a few

days.You have to process it as soon as you get it home, and when harvesting

on hot days best to carry a bucket of water to immerse cut stems in to keep

them from wilting.

If it wilts bad you might as well use it for compost.



Or write to me about discounts... jewelweed soap by the pound :-)



Karen Shelton

Alternative Nature Herbal and Online Photo Gallery

Amazing Jewelweed Soap for Poison Ivy and lots of Jewelweed plant info

http://altnature.com



"Patrick Cassidy" <patrick-cassidy@paoli.com> wrote in message

news:9le97a$nbo$1@topsy.kiva.net...

> I'm trying to make some salve or ointment for my poison ivy.

> What is the procedure to extract the "good stuff" from  Jewelweed?  Also,

> what can I mix with it to give the lotion a "gel" like texture?

>

> Thanks

> Patrick











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: MS help

From: leeco11@aol.com (LeeCo11)

Date: 16 Aug 2001 01:36:13 GMT

--------

Would anyone have any info on relieving or curing multiple sclerosis?  Any and

all info will be appreciated.

TIA

Lee





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: MS help

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:13:03 -0400 (EDT)

--------

LeeCo11 <leeco11@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010815213613.11495.00001157@mb-fn.aol.com...

> Would anyone have any info on relieving or curing multiple sclerosis?

> Any and all info will be appreciated.

> TIA

> Lee



MS is one of those "high info" diseases, where one needs to know a lot,

because there are so many MS types, available choices, and associated

special problems. This link has a well-written comprehensive review of the

current state of knowledge concerning multiple sclerosis:



http://www.multiplan.com/healthwell/womenshealth/youngadulthood/MultipleSclerosis.cfm



What age are you now, and what age did you get it? Were you living in the

north or the south when you got it? Which type MS do you have and in what

stage? How certain is your diagnosis? Have you resources or are you living

week to week? What are you taking for it now?



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: MS help

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:43:50 GMT

--------



> Would anyone have any info on relieving or curing multiple sclerosis?

> Any and all info will be appreciated.



The most generally effective thing is a dairy-free diet.  Vitamin and

mineral supplements can help (e.g. evening primrose oil).



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: MS help

From: Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:55:13 -0400

--------

On 16 Aug 2001 01:36:13 GMT, leeco11@aol.com (LeeCo11) wrote:



>Would anyone have any info on relieving or curing multiple sclerosis?  Any and

>all info will be appreciated.



See: Multiple Sclerosis and Diet: http://www.PaleoDiet.com/ms/



Plus here's a recent summary article posted to the celiac mailing list:



http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?A2=ind0108b&L=celiac&F=&S=&P=7130



Don <donwiss at panix.com>.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: alternative to ritalin

From: lilvampress_@webtv.net

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:40:24 -0500 (CDT)

--------

hi



im a 24 yr old female.  i was put on ritalin 2 months ago.  i have heard

of alternatives to ritalin.  im very interested in trying some of them.

can anyone tell me what they might be?  or how to find out?



thanks







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alternative to ritalin

From: "Haele" <hazeling@adnc.com>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:16:26 -0700

--------



lilvampress_@webtv.net wrote in message

<16205-3B7B2488-82@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...

hi



im a 24 yr old female.  i was put on ritalin 2 months ago.  i have heard

of alternatives to ritalin.  im very interested in trying some of them.

can anyone tell me what they might be?  or how to find out?



thanks







Err... a lot depends on why you were put on ritalin, and what the dosage is.



My SO is now on Ritalin and Wellbutrin because they didn't catch his ADD

(yes, he actually has ADD, unlike lots of people who are "diagnosed" with

it...) until he was 30, and most alternatives now would have to be

prescribed in harmful dosages for him to use instead of his current

medications.



He does use homeopathic supplements to help him lower his reliance on it and

he doesn't need to take as much meds as he used to, but his doctor (who

helped him look up what might help him and monitors him regularly) says

he'll probably always have to use his meds in some degree if he wanted to

keep living at the quality of life he is now.



BTW, I'm not a licensed homeopath, so I can't recommend anything to you but

watch your diet (more B and E vitamins) and excersize - which does seem to

help alleviate some of the reliance on ritalin in some cases -  and talk

with *several* different doctors about any alternatives you can safely

take...



Without knowing what the chemical imbalance is, and how much damage it's

already done, it's really not safe to try and treat yourself.



Haele









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alternative to ritalin

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: 18 Aug 2001 16:13:10 GMT

--------

lilvampress_@webtv.net wrote in article

<16205-3B7B2488-82@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...

> im a 24 yr old female.  i was put on ritalin 2 months ago.  i have heard

> of alternatives to ritalin.  im very interested in trying some of them.

> can anyone tell me what they might be?  or how to find out?



If your are on Ritalin for AD/HD, anything that is a stimulant could help. 

The theory is that people with AD/HD have low levels of neurotransmitters

in their brains, and stimulants help the brain to produce more of them.  



Guarana, ginseng or caffeine are some ideas.  Depending on the severity of

your AD/HD, you'd have to experiment with the type of herb and amount...of

course, start out with low dosages and slowly work your way up if needed.  



Why not try something easy to start like coffee, or something with caffeine

in it?  My son, who has grown out of the hyperactive part, but still has

problems concentrating, drinks Arizona Iced Tea's brand of Green Tea with

ginseng and honey.  A nephew of mine drinks coffee to get the same effect. 

It kicks in whatever it is that their brains are lacking and lets them

concentrate better.  Also, a daily multi-vitamin pill - not mega dose -

helps keep him on an even keel.



There's a book called WHY JOHNNY CAN'T CONCENTRATE which gives a good

explanation of the neuro-transmitter thing.  Unfortunately, the rest of the

book is geared toward more mainstream drug ideas of how to tread AD/HD.  I

really don't have any good sources at hand for the alternatives, but the

internet may have them.  There are supplements out there that have things

like valerian in them - the theory is that it will calm the person's

hyperactivity - but those things never worked on my son...didn't seem to

phase him.  The stimulants work best.



Good luck.



Saskia

-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.  









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.attn-deficit

Subject: Re: alternative to ritalin

From: Jim Hawtree <bigjim2c@sprintmail.com>

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:43:16 GMT

--------

I'm 52 yrs old with ADD, and I use 120mg (yes, that's six 20mg

methylphenidate daily). I was diagnosed about eight years ago. I tried

about everything herbal and behavioural etc. for ADD. I used to drink about

a pot of strong coffee, and had intense sugar and chocolate cravings later

in the afternoon. When I started methylphenidate (generic Ritalin) my

caffeine, sugar and chocolate cravings (which were incredibly intense at

times) rapidly disappeared, along with mild depression, extreme

disorganization and difficulty in concentration in spite of very high

standard test scores. I have always used highest-quality food supplements

and healthy foods, After reading literally thousands of pages of books,

articles and letters on alt.support.attn-deficit, I have been forced to the

conclusion that (1) I have a very marked case of ADD; and (2) Using Ritalin

is the healthiest thing that I have ever done.



If WHATEVER improves your work and school and social life, makes you

healthy and makes you happier in your opinion and in the opinion of those

around you, IT IS A GOOD THING. If it doesn't, it isn't. People are

different, sometimes very, very different from the average.



I used Ephedra sinica (in large quantities, I bought it powdered from

Frontier Herbs) by the pound and put it in capsules. But ephedra and

caffeine and kava-kava and lots of other stuff I tried either did not work

or worked for a little while with horrendous side-effects. Ephedra worked

the best, but it was habit-forming like coffee and chocolate, and make me

nervous, irritable and caused sleep disturbances and *horrendous* leg

cramps.



If you truly have ADD, Ritalin may greatly help. The only alternative is

amphetamine (and a couple of other prescription stimulants). There are a

few disorders that vaguely and incompletely resemble ADD for which Ritalin

does not work. People are notoriously bad at self-diagnosis of their mental

states and habits. There are a lot of misguided people who are right 95% of

the time that people sould not use Ritalin, but they are quite wrong for

the 5% who actually have ADD. Great odds for gambling, but tragic if you

base your health and happiness on a well-intentioned dogmatic opinion and

*you* turn out to be the exception. Think for yourself. Don't be gullible.

Good luck!!



(BTW, I tried Welbutrin and it did little for me. It also takes about 2

months or so to get the dose of Ritalin right. It has to increase rapidly,

then more and more slowly to some "magic number" which might be anywhere

from 30mg/day to as much as 300mg/day. Mine is 120mg./day. If you have ADD,

Ritalin is not addicting unlike tobacco or chocolate or caffeine. If you

are addicted to caffeine, for instance, you crave caffeine when you do not

have it. When I forget Ritalin, I never crave Ritalin, I just develop the

very strong cravings for sugar that I used to have; and people and things

*seem* to go unnecessarily out of their way to *deliberately* irritate me!

That's when I discover that I forgot to take Ritalin a few hours ago!

)        :-)



lilvampress_@webtv.net wrote:



> hi

>

> im a 24 yr old female.  i was put on ritalin 2 months ago.  i have heard

> of alternatives to ritalin.  im very interested in trying some of them.

> can anyone tell me what they might be?  or how to find out?

>

> thanks







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.attn-deficit

Subject: Re: alternative to ritalin

From: Norma <someone@nowhereelse.com>

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:37:18 -0700

--------

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:43:16 GMT, Jim Hawtree

<bigjim2c@sprintmail.com> wrote:



>I'm 52 yrs old with ADD, and I use 120mg (yes, that's six 20mg

>methylphenidate daily). I was diagnosed about eight years ago. I tried

>about everything herbal and behavioural etc. for ADD. I used to drink about

>a pot of strong coffee, and had intense sugar and chocolate cravings later

>in the afternoon. When I started methylphenidate (generic Ritalin) my

>caffeine, sugar and chocolate cravings (which were incredibly intense at

>times) rapidly disappeared, along with mild depression, extreme

>disorganization and difficulty in concentration in spite of very high

>standard test scores. I have always used highest-quality food supplements

>and healthy foods, After reading literally thousands of pages of books,

>articles and letters on alt.support.attn-deficit, I have been forced to the

>conclusion that (1) I have a very marked case of ADD; and (2) Using Ritalin

>is the healthiest thing that I have ever done.



I used to have the high sugar cravings too. In fact if I start to

crave something sweet I know it's time for meds soon.



I think meds are best for those with marked cases of ADHD. I'd like to

say all cases of ADHD, but I think those with mild cases can get way

with herbal supplements if they wish. I also tried ephedra, ginseng,

coffee. While I still use ephedra for allergy times (small amounts). I

know feel it works lousy for my ADHD. Until I tried prescribed meds, I

thought the ephedra worked nice. Well my tolerance built up and the

side effects increased, same thing with the other substances. But now

I know better, Ephedra may help me concentrate a little bit and be

less forgetful, etc, but I'd say it's only about 10% as effective as

my meds.



Only exercise is the only natural thing that is as effective, but in

my case I would have to exercise the whole day (I'm not exagerating

either), and I can't.  





>

>If WHATEVER improves your work and school and social life, makes you

>healthy and makes you happier in your opinion and in the opinion of those

>around you, IT IS A GOOD THING. If it doesn't, it isn't. People are

>different, sometimes very, very different from the average.



Yes. For those who try herbs and their lives are fine, it's great,

continue doing it, but some people quickly find, herbs don't do as

well as you had hoped they did.



>I used Ephedra sinica (in large quantities, I bought it powdered from

>Frontier Herbs) by the pound and put it in capsules. But ephedra and

>caffeine and kava-kava and lots of other stuff I tried either did not work

>or worked for a little while with horrendous side-effects. Ephedra worked

>the best, but it was habit-forming like coffee and chocolate, and make me

>nervous, irritable and caused sleep disturbances and *horrendous* leg

>cramps.



Coffee actually started doing the opposite, the more I had, I started

to get sleepier. But it did give me major mood swings, bad headaches,

that until I stopped all caffeine (okay I still have chocolate now and

then), I didn't realize that my irritableness and ongoing depression

bouts were not part of me, but caffeine induced. 





>If you truly have ADD, Ritalin may greatly help. The only alternative is

>amphetamine (and a couple of other prescription stimulants). There are a

>few disorders that vaguely and incompletely resemble ADD for which Ritalin

>does not work. People are notoriously bad at self-diagnosis of their mental

>states and habits. There are a lot of misguided people who are right 95% of

>the time that people sould not use Ritalin, but they are quite wrong for

>the 5% who actually have ADD. Great odds for gambling, but tragic if you

>base your health and happiness on a well-intentioned dogmatic opinion and

>*you* turn out to be the exception. Think for yourself. Don't be gullible.

>Good luck!!



I think people should keep in mind that herbs, just like the

prescriptions are meds. If you keep that in mind it helps keep things

in perspective. Check out everything you take and make sure it doesn't

interact with each other.



>(BTW, I tried Welbutrin and it did little for me. It also takes about 2

>months or so to get the dose of Ritalin right. It has to increase rapidly,

>then more and more slowly to some "magic number" which might be anywhere

>from 30mg/day to as much as 300mg/day. Mine is 120mg./day. If you have ADD,

>Ritalin is not addicting unlike tobacco or chocolate or caffeine. If you

>are addicted to caffeine, for instance, you crave caffeine when you do not

>have it. When I forget Ritalin, I never crave Ritalin, I just develop the

>very strong cravings for sugar that I used to have; and people and things

>*seem* to go unnecessarily out of their way to *deliberately* irritate me!

>That's when I discover that I forgot to take Ritalin a few hours ago!

>)        :-)

>



I also have found that I don't go above my dose, and I have no

cravings to either. At first everybody experiments to get their

correct dose, but after that, you don't stray away from it. 





       Norma



  -- Follow the white rabbit... But don't get lost!





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alternative to ritalin

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:27:09 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Jim Hawtree <bigjim2c@sprintmail.com> wrote in message

news:3B80DC32.7ED91D35@sprintmail.com...

> I'm 52 yrs old with ADD, and I use 120mg (yes, that's six 20mg

> methylphenidate daily). I was diagnosed about eight years ago. I tried

> about everything herbal and behavioural etc. for ADD. 



I think Jim H's experience with healing reality was so well stated. Some

ills in some body types just insist on pharma treatments --for now. 



But it's a deal with an alchemist and his daemon. How long will the

alchemist be there for you? Will the daemon continue to serve you? Will

the alchemist drain away your life force through your bank card?



Twice in the last 10 years my principle pharma treatment for migraine

(ergotamine tartrate, then ergotamine/caffeine) has disappeared from the

local market. Both times the replacements worked less well. The second

time the price increased by an order of magnitude (triptan$ cost 10 time$

more!). 



From the alarmist reports I've seen on TV, I suspect that Ritalin may be

at some risk from the WOSD. 



My suggestion is to do research trials for your next possible ADD

treatment during annual, semiannual, or quarterly drug holidays.



I also think that mega-vitamins-minerals (m-v-m) are especially important

for anyone taking regular pharma, especially a brain stimulant. Stimulants

increase normal metabolic free-radical production, and produce some of

their own. m-v-m at least partly help to soak up the extra radicals to

reduce brain and body aging pace.



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: alternative to ritalin

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:01:47 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Norma <someone@nowhereelse.com> wrote in message

news:5ao3ot4jqqd7ln69nhiv5m166k4lnt2vrp@4ax.com...

> Yes. For those who try herbs and their lives are fine, it's great,

> continue doing it, but some people quickly find, herbs don't do as

> well as you had hoped they did.

> [...]

> I think people should keep in mind that herbs, just like the

> prescriptions are meds. 



I agree with most of what you wrote; except, I object to your

generalization equating herbs to prescriptions.



-Most- herbs aren't meds "just like the prescriptions". If they were, they

would usually be just as potent as pharma, and have similar side effect

risks. But most herbs are not, and most don't. 



Most herbs are not as potent as ephedra. Many of the most useful herbs

have a potency more like ginger, though not necessarily a spicy taste. 



Fresh ginger, as tea, is an amazing abdominal flu ache soother, yet it is

clearly a food, as are many other herbs. How much support would the FDA

get if they took your advice and ordered all grocery stores to hang the

following sign over the ginger root basket?:



"Warning: Ginger is a medicine. Do not consume without reading the

warnings in the Herbal PDR" (Medical Economics Company, Inc., $59.95 USD

per copy).



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: CoQ10

From: "Shirley Hess" <shirley.hess@lexis-nexis.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:42:48 -0400

--------

I can walk into Walmart and buy a 30 day supply of Twinlab CoQ10 (150mg.)

for $18.99.  I go into the health food store and they want $25.00 - $35.00

for the same mg.



Can anyone tell me why there is such a difference?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: CoQ10

From: Gordon Held <gheld@thegrid.net>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:55:26 -0700

--------

Same reason Walmart is 25% or so cheaper on everything else they carry, too.



However, try asking a Walmart "associate" some questions about the CoQ10 or

try to buy some while you're in a hurry some day or try to find some alternate

brands to choose from and you'll figure out the reason for the continued

existence independent store that provides service.



However, you can go to www.beyond-a-century.com and order their product #203.0

and get 133 days supply of 150 mg. powder for $54, which comes out to about

$13 per month.



Gordon Held



Shirley Hess wrote:



> I can walk into Walmart and buy a 30 day supply of Twinlab CoQ10 (150mg.)

> for $18.99.  I go into the health food store and they want $25.00 - $35.00

> for the same mg.

>

> Can anyone tell me why there is such a difference?







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: CoQ10

From: yomousey@aol.com (YoMousey)

Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:37:56 GMT

--------

>"Shirley Hess" >shirley.hess@lexis-nexis.com 

wrote:



>

>I can walk into Walmart and buy a 30 day supply of Twinlab CoQ10 (150mg.)

>for $18.99.  



Sure can't find it for that low a price at any Walmart around here, where are

you located?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: CoQ10

From: "Evelyn Ruut" <mama_lion@ulster.net>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:21:44 GMT

--------



"YoMousey" <yomousey@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010828093756.09122.00006294@mb-ma.aol.com...

> >"Shirley Hess" >shirley.hess@lexis-nexis.com

> wrote:

>

> >

> >I can walk into Walmart and buy a 30 day supply of Twinlab CoQ10 (150mg.)

> >for $18.99.

>

> Sure can't find it for that low a price at any Walmart around here, where

are

> you located?





Hi Mousey,



I get mine at Walmart too, but they have different strengths.   If you buy

the tablets that are really low dose, yeah, you can probably get them that

cheap.  I was told by my natural doctor to take 100 mg a day.   Now that

gets a bit more expensive.



I am of an age and weight and family history that heart problems could be a

prospect on the horizon.   That could be why.....



Regards,

Evelyn









==========

Newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.health,alt.med.cfs.info,alt.support.impotence,medlux.medsci.homoeopathy

Subject: Avena Sativa 

From: Scout <scout2001@mailandnews.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:45:57 -0400

--------

I am considering taking Homeopathic Avena Sativa  .  It increases free

testosterone...does that mean it is androgenic and could be bad for

prostate.



Please respond to scout2001@mailandnews.com because my PDA can not

check newsgouprs.    







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: hello all

From: "Storm" <stormcat@liquidmoon.zzn.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:18:33 -0400

--------

Hello all,

I am Rigel a.k.a Storm Cat. I am a pagan, and I am hoping no one will

dislike me for my religion, thought I am sure there are other pagans in

here. I am a male, age 13. I have studied herbs since I was six. I have

developed a rather firm grasp at them. I hope to learn more and teach others

in this great room. Now I have introduced myself so you can know me better.



Nice To Meet You All,

Storm









==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:30:08 GMT

--------

Hello, I'm a user of 5-HTP.  I find that a single dose of 25mg is

excessive for my needs.  For me, a single dose of 5mg, once a day, is

ideal, and if I want a little more I can always pop some more.  25mg

has quite a noticable effect on me, causing mild sleepiness, sometimes

a mild headache, and often mild symptoms of euphoria and inner warmth.

While it doesn't feel all that bad (actually quite the opposite), I

think that this is really too much for me.  If I take 25mg, I don't

need to take any more for several days before I notice the positive

effects wearing off and I need to take another to maintain the same

desired effects.  (no depression, fantastic sleep).  With about 5mg I

don't really notice any side-effects (positive or negative), but with

sustained use I get the postitive benefits I seek.



Perhaps 25mg or more could be used therapeutically in the short term,

but maybe it is too much for some people for long-term daily

supplementation.  5mg seems to be about the right dosage for me to

maintain an exceptional quality of life, which I certainly didn't have

before.  Perhaps even dropping it down to 2mg might be sufficient for

me in the very long term.  Has anyone else had similar experiences of

finding lower dosages quite adequate?



So this is what I do.. I break up all the little gel-caps, and then I

found a place that sells tiny gel caps, and I fill them up.  Its quite

time consuming and boring!



Surely it would be easy for someone to produce these little guys in a

5mg or less dose! !?! !?!  (of course, from a natural source, no

synthetic please)  Also please no Vitamin B's, I like to control that

myself independantly.  Speaking of which, its also harder to find a

Vitamin B supplement that has an average of 5mg dose..  I found a

source of 10mg Vitamin B's, and then I break it in half, so that isn't

too difficult, but still annoying.  Most B pills I found are 50mg, 10x

the dosage I want/need.  What is all this emphasis on excessive

dosages??!?  Why take more than we really need?  I eat a pretty good

diet already.  Who knows if too much could be causing more harm than

good?  And while I'm 145 lbs, maybe someone smaller than me would need

even less!  5-HTP is a very powerful chemical, (I would call it a

wonder-drug), and we certainly don't know enough about it, or enough

about the potentially damaging effects it might cause for life-long

use in higher dosages.



If anyone knows of anywhere that I can obtain 5-HTP in a 5mg or less

dose, that would be greatly appreciated (although I'm quite doubtful

any exist).  And if anyone knows the manufacturers of these things,

please encourage them to produce a lower dosage pill!  Of course,

perhaps they want to make excessive dosages so that they make more

money or something -- how lame!



Thanks!!







==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 18 Aug 2001 00:00:00 GMT

--------



fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com> writes:

> Hello, I'm a user of 5-HTP.



This does not sound like a herb.



What is it?



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: "Baron Blackfang" <WolfCave@yahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:17:00 GMT

--------

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 5-HTP doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, if

I remember my college pharmacology, so it's totally useless as a tryptophan

supplement. And, the synthesis of 5-HTP has the same risk of contamination

as does tryptophan so I would stay away from it.  Sounds like you are having

a placebo effect. Try a warm milk and turkey bed time snack. Cheaper and

better for you as great sources of tryptophan without the risk.



--

-----------------------------------

Fortitudo Et Macto (Strength And Honor)

Motto of the Roman Legions





"fraggle" <fraggle@poboxes.com> wrote in message

news:h6lqntsnsf3i0qmgvjee6f5aaadq5q6mj5@4ax.com...

> Hello, I'm a user of 5-HTP.  I find that a single dose of 25mg is

> excessive for my needs.  For me, a single dose of 5mg, once a day, is

> ideal, and if I want a little more I can always pop some more.  25mg

> has quite a noticable effect on me, causing mild sleepiness, sometimes

> a mild headache, and often mild symptoms of euphoria and inner warmth.

> While it doesn't feel all that bad (actually quite the opposite), I

> think that this is really too much for me.  If I take 25mg, I don't

> need to take any more for several days before I notice the positive

> effects wearing off and I need to take another to maintain the same

> desired effects.  (no depression, fantastic sleep).  With about 5mg I

> don't really notice any side-effects (positive or negative), but with

> sustained use I get the postitive benefits I seek.

>

> Perhaps 25mg or more could be used therapeutically in the short term,

> but maybe it is too much for some people for long-term daily

> supplementation.  5mg seems to be about the right dosage for me to

> maintain an exceptional quality of life, which I certainly didn't have

> before.  Perhaps even dropping it down to 2mg might be sufficient for

> me in the very long term.  Has anyone else had similar experiences of

> finding lower dosages quite adequate?

>

> So this is what I do.. I break up all the little gel-caps, and then I

> found a place that sells tiny gel caps, and I fill them up.  Its quite

> time consuming and boring!

>

> Surely it would be easy for someone to produce these little guys in a

> 5mg or less dose! !?! !?!  (of course, from a natural source, no

> synthetic please)  Also please no Vitamin B's, I like to control that

> myself independantly.  Speaking of which, its also harder to find a

> Vitamin B supplement that has an average of 5mg dose..  I found a

> source of 10mg Vitamin B's, and then I break it in half, so that isn't

> too difficult, but still annoying.  Most B pills I found are 50mg, 10x

> the dosage I want/need.  What is all this emphasis on excessive

> dosages??!?  Why take more than we really need?  I eat a pretty good

> diet already.  Who knows if too much could be causing more harm than

> good?  And while I'm 145 lbs, maybe someone smaller than me would need

> even less!  5-HTP is a very powerful chemical, (I would call it a

> wonder-drug), and we certainly don't know enough about it, or enough

> about the potentially damaging effects it might cause for life-long

> use in higher dosages.

>

> If anyone knows of anywhere that I can obtain 5-HTP in a 5mg or less

> dose, that would be greatly appreciated (although I'm quite doubtful

> any exist).  And if anyone knows the manufacturers of these things,

> please encourage them to produce a lower dosage pill!  Of course,

> perhaps they want to make excessive dosages so that they make more

> money or something -- how lame!

>

> Thanks!!

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: LostRevolution@aol.com (Vlade)

Date: 18 Aug 2001 09:07:22 -0700

--------

"Baron Blackfang" <WolfCave@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<M6lf7.18626$ZM2.1663615@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but 5-HTP doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, if

> I remember my college pharmacology, so it's totally useless as a tryptophan

> supplement. And, the synthesis of 5-HTP has the same risk of contamination

> as does tryptophan so I would stay away from it.  Sounds like you are having

> a placebo effect. Try a warm milk and turkey bed time snack. Cheaper and

> better for you as great sources of tryptophan without the risk.





You are wrong. 5-HTP (L-5-Hydroxy-Tryptophan), unlike tryptophan,

readily crosses the blood brain barrier and serves as a precursor to

5HT (Serotonin) in the human body. As a matter of fact, tryptophan

serves as a precursor to 5-HTP by converting into it and then into

serotonin. So, by taking a 5-HTP supplement, one bypasses a whole

metabolic stage in serotogenesis. While Tryptophan has to compete with

other amino acids in the blood stream to enter the brain, 5-HTP does

not. As far as the contamination concerned, there was only a singular

established case of tryptophan contamination by the Japanese company

back in the seventies, no other cases of such contamination had ever

been established with tryptophan. It was basically a fluke which

caused FDA to totally overreact and flip out as usual. Another thing,

5-HTP itself had NEVER been known contaminated as of yet.





==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:33:30 GMT

--------

LostRevolution@aol.com (Vlade) wrote:



>"Baron Blackfang" <WolfCave@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<M6lf7.18626$ZM2.1663615@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but 5-HTP doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, if

>> I remember my college pharmacology, so it's totally useless as a tryptophan

>> supplement. And, the synthesis of 5-HTP has the same risk of contamination

>> as does tryptophan so I would stay away from it.  Sounds like you are having

>> a placebo effect. Try a warm milk and turkey bed time snack. Cheaper and

>> better for you as great sources of tryptophan without the risk.

>

>

>You are wrong. 5-HTP (L-5-Hydroxy-Tryptophan), unlike tryptophan,

>readily crosses the blood brain barrier and serves as a precursor to

>5HT (Serotonin) in the human body. As a matter of fact, tryptophan

>serves as a precursor to 5-HTP by converting into it and then into

>serotonin. So, by taking a 5-HTP supplement, one bypasses a whole

>metabolic stage in serotogenesis. While Tryptophan has to compete with

>other amino acids in the blood stream to enter the brain, 5-HTP does

>not. As far as the contamination concerned, there was only a singular

>established case of tryptophan contamination by the Japanese company

>back in the seventies, no other cases of such contamination had ever

>been established with tryptophan. It was basically a fluke which

>caused FDA to totally overreact and flip out as usual. Another thing,

>5-HTP itself had NEVER been known contaminated as of yet.



There still might be a possibility of contamination by poor synthesis

of 5-HTP, although it may be unlikely.  However, I don't take the

risk, and I use non-synthetic 5-HTP derived from an african plant,

which has no possibility of contamination.









==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: "Kristofer D. Dale" <barefoot@plato.nmia.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:58:13 GMT

--------

In misc.health.alternative fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com> wrote:



> There still might be a possibility of contamination by poor synthesis

> of 5-HTP, although it may be unlikely.  However, I don't take the

> risk, and I use non-synthetic 5-HTP derived from an african plant,

> which has no possibility of contamination.



Whew!



Thanks for the laugh, it was good medicine... ;^]



-- 







            _o                   Kristofer Dale,

         _ \<,_                  ragged individualist,

   _____( )/ ( )_____            statistic at large...





p.s. Learn and live, http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org







==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 02:59:19 GMT

--------

"Kristofer D. Dale" <barefoot@plato.nmia.com> wrote:



>In misc.health.alternative fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com> wrote:

>

>> There still might be a possibility of contamination by poor synthesis

>> of 5-HTP, although it may be unlikely.  However, I don't take the

>> risk, and I use non-synthetic 5-HTP derived from an african plant,

>> which has no possibility of contamination.

>

>Whew!

>

>Thanks for the laugh, it was good medicine... ;^]



Well there could be *other* contaiminents, but that would be pretty

unusual eh?  The contaminents that we're talking about that cause EMS,

are only likely to come from the poor synthesis of 5-HTP.







==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: "mnt" <alsern@home.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:48:28 GMT

--------



As far as the contamination concerned, there was only a singular

> established case of tryptophan contamination by the Japanese company

> back in the seventies, no other cases of such contamination had ever

> been established with tryptophan.





    This is not true,  the contamination was only found in New Mexico,

never traced to Japan and was not even in the L-tryptophan but in another

ingredient from a supplement containing L-triptophan.  The CDC never found

the source.





 It was basically a fluke which

> caused FDA to totally overreact and flip out as usual. Another thing,

> 5-HTP itself had NEVER been known contaminated as of yet.



  5H-TP is still a rip off,  eat a bannana,  cheaper and much better source

of serotanin.  BTW  98% of it stays in  your gut no matter what   it's the

balance between several neurotransmitters that give the effect you are

looking for.



    The FDA allows fraud and dishonest practice to flourish,  look at what

the health food industry gets away with today.  it is a bloody shame the way

the old and sick are cheated out of their money.













.





















==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:32:09 GMT

--------

"mnt" <alsern@home.com> wrote:



> It was basically a fluke which

>> caused FDA to totally overreact and flip out as usual. Another thing,

>> 5-HTP itself had NEVER been known contaminated as of yet.

>

>  5H-TP is still a rip off,  eat a bannana,  cheaper and much better source

>of serotanin.  BTW  98% of it stays in  your gut no matter what   it's the

>balance between several neurotransmitters that give the effect you are

>looking for.



Uhh, I dunno where u get that idea, but 5mg of 5-HTP is about 1/10th

the cost of a bannana where I live.  From what I understand, any

serotonin that is in a bannana doesn't ever get into your brain,

because it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier.  As far as I know

there isn't any 5-HTP in a bannana.  There is Tryptophan in a bannana,

but then consuming Tryptophan supplments would be similar to consuming

a bananna.  Consuming Tryptophan is NOT the same as consuming 5-HTP.

I have nothing against banannas, I still eat them too, but they are

not the same as consuming 5-HTP.







==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: "mnt" <alsern@home.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 06:09:24 GMT

--------

the blood brain barrier is overrated.  a chemical does not have to cross it

directly to change mood or control appetite, increase endurance or whatever

effect you are looking for.  the brain is not the beginning and end of the

thought process.  the entire body is involved.  that's why the best way to

feel good is to be healthy,  there is no way around it.



I think of serotanin as the chemical that moves your food through the gut,

that's where 98% of it is located in the body,  eat 4 bannans and you can

feel them move through you,  in the US bannanas from Costa Rica are $0.33

per pound.  they are the cheapest fresh food you can buy.





i am curious,  Why would you take 5-HTP in the first place?



"fraggle" <fraggle@poboxes.com> wrote in message

news:9k5unt40tp9udrt8fm8gje02ieb8c0dm3d@4ax.com...

> "mnt" <alsern@home.com> wrote:

>

> > It was basically a fluke which

> >> caused FDA to totally overreact and flip out as usual. Another thing,

> >> 5-HTP itself had NEVER been known contaminated as of yet.

> >

> >  5H-TP is still a rip off,  eat a bannana,  cheaper and much better

source

> >of serotanin.  BTW  98% of it stays in  your gut no matter what   it's

the

> >balance between several neurotransmitters that give the effect you are

> >looking for.

>

> Uhh, I dunno where u get that idea, but 5mg of 5-HTP is about 1/10th

> the cost of a bannana where I live.  From what I understand, any

> serotonin that is in a bannana doesn't ever get into your brain,

> because it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier.  As far as I know

> there isn't any 5-HTP in a bannana.  There is Tryptophan in a bannana,

> but then consuming Tryptophan supplments would be similar to consuming

> a bananna.  Consuming Tryptophan is NOT the same as consuming 5-HTP.

> I have nothing against banannas, I still eat them too, but they are

> not the same as consuming 5-HTP.

>









==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: "mac" <fred_4all@email.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:14:17 +0200

--------

I totally agree and with my own experience about the

total body health.

You don't know what wonders a tuned mind-body

, due to good health, can make unless you have it.

Try doing some cardio/ fitness or any other sport

for couple of months without quitting and let the body adopt

to the new routine. You should expect many fold increase

in your mental powers.

The key is..........be patience and don't quit, give it time to

adopt. You won't be needing any HTPs or any other

supplement to feel good, you just feel good day or night.

My own experience!.

















==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?

From: seekingequilibrium <nospam@newsranger.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:46:33 GMT

--------

In article <oKIf7.17561$sr4.5129213@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>, mnt says...

>

>the blood brain barrier is overrated.  





I think you might have trouble convincing someone with a malignant brain tumor

that is receiving chemotherapy of that fact.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herb Garden

From: "Lili" <jaroen@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:32:58 GMT

--------

Could anyone suggest what would be good herbs to start a little garden with?

I have basil, mint and rosemary and coriander and would like ideas on the

next ones to plant. I start from seeds if that makes any difference.  Thanks

to all who read and respond!









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herb Garden

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:50:24 GMT

--------

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:32:58 GMT, "Lili" <jaroen@worldnet.att.net>

wrote:



>Could anyone suggest what would be good herbs to start a little garden with?

>I have basil, mint and rosemary and coriander and would like ideas on the

>next ones to plant. I start from seeds if that makes any difference.  Thanks

>to all who read and respond!

>

This depends a bit on where you're gardening, i.e. the climate, and

your intended use.

If you're in the northern hemisphere, you're a bit late to plant most

seeds but you might be able to get cuttings from friends/parks etc.

Autumn is also the correct time for planting garlic cloves if your

main interest is culinary.



Joanna





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herb Garden

From: "John H. Immink" <ecologicals1@home.com>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:58:16 GMT

--------

You may find the basics for beginning herb gardeners on our website useful!

See index page, click on Herb page.

The url is http://members.home.net/ecologicalsgardens

Also, the Links page lists a few very good herb related url's.

Best,

John in Victoria BC Canada



"Lili" <jaroen@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:_Iif7.49928$gj1.4610473@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> Could anyone suggest what would be good herbs to start a little garden

with?

> I have basil, mint and rosemary and coriander and would like ideas on the

> next ones to plant. I start from seeds if that makes any difference.

Thanks

> to all who read and respond!

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herb Garden

From: "Lili" <jaroen@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 05:05:20 GMT

--------

thanks to both joanna and john. much appreciated. yesterday someone gave me

12 different plants to add to the few i had and i am now fancying myself a

real herbalist. when winter comes they will have to come indoors and then

all the excitement will die down ( no pun ) for me i guess. thanks again,

lili

 still want to add more for sure though. have no sage or marshmallow yet.

oh, there's tonnes i don't have!









==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative,sci.med

Subject: RISK of 5-HTP (was: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?)

From: "Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:52:32 -0700

--------



Baron Blackfang wrote in message ...

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but 5-HTP doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier,

if

>I remember my college pharmacology, so it's totally useless as a tryptophan

>supplement.





It does cross the BBB-- it uses the same amino acid transporter as

tryptophan.

However, that transporter requires a COOH group and will not transport

serotonin (5-HT, the decarboxylated 5-HTP).



5-HTP does indeed get levels of serotonin up in the brain, as does

tryptophan.

Alas, converstion of tryptophan to 5-HTP is a committed step in the CNS, and

doing that step before you eat it is dangerous, for you liver can do the

decarboxylation

(using the same enzyme that conversts L-DOPA to dopamine) and

converts 5-HTP to serotonin before it gets to your brain. Serotonin is an

extremely

active substance which doesn't belong in your blood in high amounts. It

causes

pulmonary hypertension and myocyte proliferation which causes a particular

kind of

proliferative heart valve disease. This peculiar heart problem has been

reported

from eating serotonin (in green bananas= matoki), and from taking

serotonergic

drugs such as methylsergide, egotomine, and (most recently) fenfluramine. It

is also

seen as a side effect of  serotonin-secreting APUD tumors (mid-gut

carcinoids).

Mechanism for the valve disease appears to be a serontonergic receptors on

cardiac myocytes which cause myocyte proliferation. Similar pathways

probably

act when platelets (which take up and store serotonin) hit tiny damage

points

on vessal walls, forcing them to start repair.



Do NOT take 5-HTP. You are setting yourself up for the same problems as

people

who took fenfluramine.  Prozac is NOT a direct serotonergic agonist, and

doesn't

cause either valve disease or pulmonary hypertension (fenfluramine kills

animals

with pulmonary hypertension if you give them an overdose, as do all the

other drugs

discussed above-- serotonin is an important vasoconstrictor, something that

platelets

also exploit in dumping it on damaged vessels).



Tryptophane also appears safe, since it is not converted to 5-HTP until it

gets to the

CNS, at which point it doesn't leak back into the blood rapidly enough to

cause

heart and pulmonary problems. Also, the contamination problems have been

solved,

and they're back to adding it to baby formula. Yes, continuing to keep it as

a prescription

drug is an example of government inertia and power-hunger, and in this case

is actually

dangerous, since it causes people to seek the same treatment using

(presently) unregulated

5-HTP.  Doc Harris predicts when the chickens come home to roost as they did

with

fenfluramine, a lot of people are going to be very, very sorry they ever

heard of 5-HTP.



SBH









==========

Newsgroups: rec.drugs.smart,soc.support.depression.treatment,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.depression.medication,misc.health.alternative,sci.med

Subject: Re: RISK of 5-HTP (was: 5-HTP doses *too high*, what source has lower dosages?)

From: fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:45:41 GMT

--------

"Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote:



>5-HTP does indeed get levels of serotonin up in the brain, as does

>tryptophan.

>Alas, converstion of tryptophan to 5-HTP is a committed step in the CNS, and

>doing that step before you eat it is dangerous, for you liver can do the

>decarboxylation

>(using the same enzyme that conversts L-DOPA to dopamine) and

>converts 5-HTP to serotonin before it gets to your brain. Serotonin is an

>extremely

>active substance which doesn't belong in your blood in high amounts.



Perhaps not in high amounts, but it is there.  For example:



1.  Serotonin content of foods:  effect on urinary excretion of 

5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid.  1985.  JM Feldman and EM Lee.

Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 42:639-643.



Used RIA (radioimmunoassay) to measure 5-HT (serotonin) in 80 foods.

Serotonin was found in the following foods at high levels: (data are

ppm)



Butternuts ( the nuts)  398

Black walnuts 304          

English walnuts  87         

Hickory nuts 67-143

Pecans  39                    

Plantain  30.3                 

Pineapple 17.0

Banana  15.0                 

Kiwi  5.8                         

Plums  4.7

Tomatoes  3.2               



Eating large amounts of these foods would also cause elevated levels

of serotonin in the bloodstream.  Your body likely needs *some* level

of serotonin in the bloodstream.



Taking low doses of 5-HTP wouldn't be much different than eating the

above foods -- and its hard to know what percentage of the 5-HTP ends

up in the brain and what percentage ends up in the blood.



Taking higher doses may have potential to cause problems, I agree.



Some people, for whatever reason, may have bodies that don't seem to

be readily converting Tryptophan into 5-HTP, and for them it could be

of some benefit.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Plant ID needed

From: Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:49:12 GMT

--------

Can any one point me to German Herbals? I am trying to ID several

plants in St. Hildegard's _Physica_ Sysemera, Menna, Dorth, Stutgras,

Meygelana, Arnica, Ugera,  Sunnewirbel, Zedoray. I am especiall

interected in Sysemera because I am working a a bit of writing on what

was used to remove head lice, and she uses it in one of her treatments.

Laurie Wood Brandt aka HL Pegasus Devona





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Plant ID needed

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 22 Aug 2001 00:45:08 GMT

--------



> Can any one point me to German Herbals? I am trying to ID several

> plants in St. Hildegard's _Physica_ Sysemera, Menna, Dorth, Stutgras,

> Meygelana, Arnica, Ugera,  Sunnewirbel, Zedoray. I am especiall

> interected in Sysemera because I am working a a bit of writing on what

> was used to remove head lice, and she uses it in one of her treatments.



Zedoray has to be zedoary.  Sunnewirbel, presumably sunflower.  Arnica

is surely the same as modern English and menna the same as manna?



My guess on sysemera would be sesame.



Stutgras (stud grass) is interesting - was it used to improve fertility

in horses?



Write to Tig Lang at the Department of Mediaeval History at the University

of St Andrews here in Scotland - she's doing similar work with Middle

English herbals, might have ideas from early English cognates, and would

be interested in what you're doing.



People might have more ideas if you said what Hildegard's uses for these

were.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Plant ID needed

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 23 Aug 2001 09:21:33 GMT

--------

> Can any one point me to German Herbals? I am trying to ID several

> plants in St. Hildegard's _Physica_ Sysemera, Menna, Dorth, Stutgras,

> Meygelana, Arnica, Ugera,  Sunnewirbel, Zedoray. I am especiall

> interected in Sysemera because I am working a a bit of writing on what

> was used to remove head lice, and she uses it in one of her treatments.



and Jack Campin responded:



>Zedoray has to be zedoary.  Sunnewirbel, presumably sunflower.  Arnica

>is surely the same as modern English and menna the same as manna?



>My guess on sysemera would be sesame.



>Stutgras (stud grass) is interesting - was it used to improve fertility

>in horses?

(snip)



I just checked in Wahrig Deutsches Wrterbuch, a general-purpose German

dictionary, and none of the mentioned plants, beginning with Sysemera, was

listed, except for Arnika (German spelling uses k instead of c).  Manna was

there, meaning the same as manna in English.  Sesam was listed (this is sesame),

so apparently Sysemera is something different.



This is a good example proving the need for Latin names.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Cockroach repellent?

From: "Nightshade and Flat" <andersons@eatel.net>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:46:16 -0500

--------

I live in a wooded area of Southern Louisiana, which means (much to my

disgust) that cockroaches are EVERYWHERE.  I've personally seen five

species!  They even live in the trees!  No matter how well I clean, I always

end up spraying the house every three to four months.  Bengal is the best

roach spray I've found, but as I have a very young child and a cat in the

house, I'm eager to find an alternative to poisoning our immediate

environment on a regular basis.



In light of this, I have two questions:



1.  Does anyone know of an herbal concoction that would be effective against

cockroaches?



2.  Is coffee a rockroach repellent?  Even when I had the misfortune of

living next to some unclean people and was infested on a regular basis, I

noticed that roaches NEVER hid under, behind or around my coffeemaker.



Love & Laughter,

Nightshade









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cockroach repellent?

From: Rich Andrews <abuse@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com>

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:13:47 GMT

--------

"Nightshade and Flat" <andersons@eatel.net> wrote in

news:W_Rf7.10349$4b5.262939@news6.giganews.com: 



> I live in a wooded area of Southern Louisiana, which means (much to my

> disgust) that cockroaches are EVERYWHERE.  I've personally seen five

> species!  They even live in the trees!  No matter how well I clean, I

> always end up spraying the house every three to four months.  Bengal is

> the best roach spray I've found, but as I have a very young child and a

> cat in the house, I'm eager to find an alternative to poisoning our

> immediate environment on a regular basis.

> 

> In light of this, I have two questions:

> 

> 1.  Does anyone know of an herbal concoction that would be effective

> against cockroaches?

> 

> 2.  Is coffee a rockroach repellent?  Even when I had the misfortune of

> living next to some unclean people and was infested on a regular basis,

> I noticed that roaches NEVER hid under, behind or around my

> coffeemaker. 

> 

> Love & Laughter,

> Nightshade

> 

> 

> 



I have heard that diatematous? earth actually kills the critters.  Spread a 

bit around, and it gets in their breathing holes and they suffocate.



rich





-- 

"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism

 by those who have not got it." 

- George Bernard Shaw







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cockroach repellent?

From: "Tiffiny" <tifrod@cwnet.com>

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:02:16 -0700

--------

Rich Andrews <abuse@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> wrote in message

news:Xns9102D7F62CD3Cabusecm183316aftwrth@24.4.64.20...



> I have heard that diatematous? earth actually kills the critters.  Spread

a

> bit around, and it gets in their breathing holes and they suffocate.

>

> rich



The correct name is amorphous diatomaceous earth (silicon dioxide).



Tiffiny









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cockroach repellent?

From: "Pigswill" <pigswill00@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:19:19 GMT

--------

   I would not recomend using diatomatious earth. it is added to specific

binders and used as  a high temp insulation, and the box it comes in is

marked as a possible carcinogen. And also a concern for silicosis of the

lungs, which leads to an unpleasant slow death by suffocation overa period

of years. I would consult an M.S.D.S. sheet on the product before using it

anywhere that a human espescially a child would come in contact with it. For

all the information there is about it, it could be as bad as asbestos. The

material is so common in industrial use, large corporations do a great job

of covering these hazards up as they did with asbestos which carcinogenic

properties were known since the 1940's and continued to be installed until

the removal order by the courts in 1979. The last thing industrial

corporations want is another asbestos removal ruling from the courts, in

regard to diatomatious earth. I am sure they will use all their power to

supress any negative information about the product, and cover their

backsides, with a microscopic warning on the box; which doesn't even use the

words carcinogen but has a level two hazard sign on the box instead. I have

used the product frequently as I am an industrial insulator by trade



Ken





"Tiffiny" <tifrod@cwnet.com> wrote in message

news:3b816da4_1@news2.cwnet.com...

> Rich Andrews <abuse@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> wrote in message

> news:Xns9102D7F62CD3Cabusecm183316aftwrth@24.4.64.20...

>

> > I have heard that diatematous? earth actually kills the critters.

Spread

> a

> > bit around, and it gets in their breathing holes and they suffocate.

> >

> > rich

>

> The correct name is amorphous diatomaceous earth (silicon dioxide).

>

> Tiffiny

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cockroach repellent?

From: "Mike" <comtrader@cox-internet.com>

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:41:49 -0500

--------



"Nightshade and Flat" <andersons@eatel.net> wrote in message

news:W_Rf7.10349$4b5.262939@news6.giganews.com...

> I live in a wooded area of Southern Louisiana, which means (much to my

> disgust) that cockroaches are EVERYWHERE.  I've personally seen five

> species!  They even live in the trees!  No matter how well I clean, I

always

> end up spraying the house every three to four months.  Bengal is the best

> roach spray I've found, but as I have a very young child and a cat in the

> house, I'm eager to find an alternative to poisoning our immediate

> environment on a regular basis.

>

> In light of this, I have two questions:

>

> 1.  Does anyone know of an herbal concoction that would be effective

against

> cockroaches?

>

> 2.  Is coffee a rockroach repellent?  Even when I had the misfortune of

> living next to some unclean people and was infested on a regular basis, I

> noticed that roaches NEVER hid under, behind or around my coffeemaker.

>

> Love & Laughter,

> Nightshade

>

The best thing I have found is placing a light amount of Boric Acid (a

powder) in areas that the bugs will travel through. They get it on their

legs and track it back to their nests. Apparently it suffocates them by

plugging their pores. Anyone else ever try this?

Mike









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cockroach repellent?

From: leeco11@aol.com (LeeCo11)

Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:30:47 GMT

--------

>The best thing I have found is placing a light amount of Boric Acid (a

>powder) in areas that the bugs will travel through. They get it on their

>legs and track it back to their nests. Apparently it suffocates them by

>plugging their pores. Anyone else ever try this?



I have heard this works as well.  Usually they say to mix it with flour.  Also

if you have pets sprinkle it where the pets won't get at it.  Under the stove,

in the cabinets etc.

Lee





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cockroach repellent?

From: Cellar Dweller <ye_olde_cellar_dweller69@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:27:28 GMT

--------

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:46:16 -0500, "Nightshade and Flat"

<andersons@eatel.net> scribbled with a broken crayon:



>I live in a wooded area of Southern Louisiana, which means (much to my

>disgust) that cockroaches are EVERYWHERE.  I've personally seen five

>species!  They even live in the trees!  No matter how well I clean, I always

>end up spraying the house every three to four months.  Bengal is the best

>roach spray I've found, but as I have a very young child and a cat in the

>house, I'm eager to find an alternative to poisoning our immediate

>environment on a regular basis.

>

>In light of this, I have two questions:

>

>1.  Does anyone know of an herbal concoction that would be effective against

>cockroaches?

>

>2.  Is coffee a rockroach repellent?  Even when I had the misfortune of

>living next to some unclean people and was infested on a regular basis, I

>noticed that roaches NEVER hid under, behind or around my coffeemaker.

>

>Love & Laughter,

>Nightshade

>



Around here there is a tree that produces a "fruit" that is about the

size of an orange, green and wrinkly. People call them "Road Apples",

they are very effective at repelling roaches and spiders. You just

place them around your house, inside and out.

I also had great results with boric acid powder, mix it with a little

flour and the roaches will eat it. Or add a little water to make a

paste and you can put it in places that you normally couldn't.

Good Luck,

Gary













"If you believe everything you read, better not read."

      -Japanese Proverb



Remove the numbers from my addy to send me e-mail.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cockroach repellent?

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:18:03 -0500

--------

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:38:35 -0500, "Nightshade and Flat"

<andersons@eatel.net> wrote:



>I'm unfamiliar with "Road Apples", and I've lived in four states so far.

>Where can they be found?

>

>Also, I neglected to mention that I have a ferret.  While I don't think

>she'll eat the boric acid (she's so picky she'll only eat Marshall's ferret

>food), can it harm her?

>



Yes, if it gets on her fur or paws and she licks it off.

-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cockroach repellent?

From: Terrel <ne1102@XYZrcn.XYZcom>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:32:17 -0400

--------

The description of this fruit in the original post was  "... a fruit

that is about the size of an orange, green and wrinkly. People call

them Road Apples, they are very effective at repelling roaches and

spiders." 



Sounds to me as if this might Osage-orange (Maclura pomifera).

According to my herb book, they grow wild from Texas across the

midwest to Pennsylvania. Perhaps your local nursery might know where

to get some, or perhaps some neighbors might know where some are

growing wild.



Terrel

NE1-102



>I'm unfamiliar with "Road Apples", and I've lived in four states so far.

>Where can they be found?



--------------

Remove the last three letters of the alphabet if replying by e-mail.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Looking For Amazon Botanicals

From: "Steve Harclerode" <steve_REMOVE@ME_harclerode.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:53:46 GMT

--------

Hi,



My chiropractor recommended that I take a supplement called Powercaps from a

company called Amazon Botanicals. The only problem is, he can't find the

contact address for the company, and all he has is a small sample, in a

bottle without a company label.



Is there anyone that can post contact information for this company, even if

it's just a distributor I can buy it from? I will check this newsgroup.



By the way, I did search the web pretty thoroughly before posting this. I

found a page www.amazonherbs.com, but after contacting them, they don't sell

the products any more.



Thanks!



--



Steve













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Looking For Amazon Botanicals

From: "K Shelton" <karen@altnature.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:56:14 -0500

--------

Wouldn't be amazondiscovery.com would it?? They have herbal products.



Karen Shelton

Alternative Nature Herbal and Online Photo Gallery

Amazing Jewelweed Soap for Poison Ivy

http://altnature.com



















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Looking For Amazon Botanicals

From: "Steve Harclerode" <steve_REMOVE@ME_harclerode.com>

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:36:08 GMT

--------

Thank you, but that seems to be a different brand. I'm looking for the

specific formulation of PowerCaps made by Amazon Botanicals.



--

Steve



"K Shelton" <karen@altnature.com> wrote in message

news:to039qidlph5c8@corp.supernews.com...

> Wouldn't be amazondiscovery.com would it?? They have herbal products.

>

> Karen Shelton

> Alternative Nature Herbal and Online Photo Gallery

> Amazing Jewelweed Soap for Poison Ivy

> http://altnature.com

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Looking For Amazon Botanicals

From: "Sharon" <bereskos@home.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:42:18 GMT

--------

I did read the post- and if this IS the company and they are not carrying

what you want then you are not going to find it any where are you.



"Steve Harclerode" <steve_REMOVE@ME_harclerode.com> wrote in message

news:igmg7.6006$Qh2.1634603@typhoon.san.rr.com...

It looks like you didn't read my post (see toward the bottom of this page).

These guys used to carry the product line, but they don't anymore, and they

don't even have contact information.



Thanks for replying, but I'm still looking...



--

Steve



"Sharon" <bereskos@home.com> wrote in message

news:Edag7.33637$7h.7497823@news2.rdc1.bc.home.com...

> This it ?

>

> http://www.amazonherbs.com/

>

> "Steve Harclerode" <steve_REMOVE@ME_harclerode.com> wrote in message

> news:uaSf7.4189$Qh2.864571@typhoon.san.rr.com...

>

[SNIPPED STUFF]



> By the way, I did search the web pretty thoroughly before posting this. I

> found a page www.amazonherbs.com, but after contacting them, they don't

sell

> the products any more.

>

> Thanks!

>













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Evening Primrose Oil

From: debbee1023@aol.com (DEBBEE1023)

Date: 20 Aug 2001 02:32:27 GMT

--------

Hi there.  I have a friend who can not take the regular prescription stuff for

menopause, and her regular doctor gave her some literature about evening

primrose oil, and told her that she had heard that this stuff works pretty

well.  She doesn't have hot flashes, if that means anything.  



Can someone here tell me about EPO, and what the pros and cons of it are?



Thank you in advance.







Debbee





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Evening Primrose Oil

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:22:59 GMT

--------

On 20 Aug 2001 02:32:27 GMT, debbee1023@aol.com (DEBBEE1023) wrote:



>Hi there.  I have a friend who can not take the regular prescription stuff for

>menopause, and her regular doctor gave her some literature about evening

>primrose oil, and told her that she had heard that this stuff works pretty

>well.  She doesn't have hot flashes, if that means anything.  

>

>Can someone here tell me about EPO, and what the pros and cons of it are?



With regards to the plant, see:

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/cgi-bin/pfaf/arr_html?Oenothera+biennis&CAN=COMIND



The appropriate paragraph is:



"Evening primrose oil has become a well-known food supplement since

the 1980's. Research suggests that the oil is potentially very

valuable in the treatment of multiple sclerosis, pre-menstrual

tension, hyperactivity etc[66]. It is also taken internally in the

treatment of eczema, acne, brittle nails, rheumatoid arthritis and

alcohol-related liver damage[238]. Regular consumption of the oil

helps to reduce blood cholesterol levels and lower the blood

pressure[21, 66]. The seed is a good source of gamma-linolenic acid,

an unsaturated fatty acid which assists the production of hormone-like

substances[222, 238]. This process is commonly blocked in the body,

causing disorders that affect the uterine muscles, nervous system and

metabolism[238]. "



The research regarding its use for PMS and breast tenderness [which

may also well apply to perimenopause] was done at St Thomas's Hospital

in London.  The test sample wasn't all that large but the results were

'promising'. 

I used it myself for PMS along with Vitamin B6, calcium/VitD/magnesium

and I think they may have helped. Then again, there is always the

placebo effect!

If your friend is mostly suffering from mood swings then it's

certainly worth a try.  The oil is good for one in any case and it

isn't that expensive OTC, in the UK at least. 

Prescription meds for a natural life passage shouldn't be the 'norm'

anyway, IMO.



Joanna





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Dysmenorrhea- What might have been prescribed?

From: Jim Hawtree <bigjim2c@sprintmail.com>

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:44:55 GMT

--------

(I hope this is not too off-topic for this NG. Can anyone suggest a website or

NG, or better yet what the medication could have been?  TIA.)



My wife was given a medication by her parents (one of which was an MD) one

tablet of which was to be taken at the first symptom of menstruation. She now

strongly suspects that she had severe side-effects from it (very severe cramps

and perhaps vertigo, depression , etc.). Several years after she started

menstruation (early 1960's) she began suspecting that the medication was

harming, rather than helping her.



This drug was given as a single tablet (either white or possibly blue) at start

of menstruation. The unfortunate effects may have lasted well over a day. When

she discontinued it, the severe cramps did not recur.



It was prescribed around 1965 in Chicago, Illinois. We are trying to find out

all meds for which she has had a drug reaction ("allergic reaction"). This drug

may have been given as an off-label use (from some well-meaning or misguided

nurse or physician), and/or it may have been discontinued sometime overe the

last 35 years. It was not a NSAID (aspirin or ibuprofin, etc.) but it could

have been a hormone replacement or some sort of muscle relaxant or some sort of

tricyclic or tetracyclic (which would explain the long duration of the drug

reaction).



Please reply to email: bigjim2c@sprintmail.com because we do not always read

newsgroups.



Thanks, Jim and Caroline







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Dysmenorrhea- What might have been prescribed?

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 20 Aug 2001 17:33:04 GMT

--------



Jim Hawtree <bigjim2c@sprintmail.com> writes:

> My wife was given a medication by her parents (one of which was an MD)

> one tablet of which was to be taken at the first symptom of menstruation.

> She now strongly suspects that she had severe side-effects from it ...

> This drug was given as a single tablet (either white or possibly blue) at

> start of menstruation. ...

> It was prescribed around 1965 in Chicago, Illinois.



Goodman & Gilman's "The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics", 1965

edition, lists a few things used for dysmenorrhoea at the time, but

nothing that quite fits that description.  They suggest *injected*

oestrogens in a single dose at the onset of each or every other period,

or else *oral* DES (diethylstilboestrol) 2mg for 10-20 days of the month.



What this looks like is somebody tried a whacking great single dose of

oral DES instead.  Given the side-effects subsequently discovered with

DES, this sounds unpleasant.  I suggest looking at manufacturer's data

sheets of the time to identify the tablet and hence the dosage.





> Please reply to email: bigjim2c@sprintmail.com because we do not always

> read newsgroups.



No.  If you start a discussion in a newsgroup you can follow it there.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Lice

From: ~*Jo*~ <nospam@newsranger.com>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:07:27 GMT

--------

Well..it's that time of year again...I saw some good advice for non-chemical

alternatives for lice control and removal a way back but had not need for

them.....then. Are they archived somewhere, Henrietta?

or can someone just throw them out again for me please? Thanks so much all...

~*Jo*~



http://www.mojomoon.net

THE MOJOMOON MAGICK SHOPPE



http://www.mojomoon.net/spelarch.html

MOJOMOON FREE SPELL ARCHIVE





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Lice

From: "Epona" <nospam@nospam.com>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:42:42 +0100

--------



~*Jo*~ wrote in message <3Dhg7.8453$2u.62123@www.newsranger.com>...

>Well..it's that time of year again...I saw some good advice for

non-chemical

>alternatives for lice control and removal a way back but had not need for

>them.....then. Are they archived somewhere, Henrietta?

>or can someone just throw them out again for me please? Thanks so much

all...

>~*Jo*~





I had this problem a couple weeks back. I found lice on my younger son and

also had started itchy scalp myself. Not wanting to use any form of

chemicals I looked up natural remedies but couldn't find anything that

seemed likely to work. Instead I bought a good quality metal nit comb from

the chemist and have been systematically combing all our hair on a daily

basis. This removed the large adult lice to start with, then each day as

eggs have hatched, the young lice have been removed too before being able to

mature and lay more eggs. You need to keep this up for at least 2 weeks, as

this is the time span for an egg to mature to an adult louse. For the last 2

days I have not found any lice on combing, although I will continue for a

few days more just to make sure.



Hope this helps.



Epona









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Lice

From: ~*Jo*~ <nospam@newsranger.com>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:48:10 GMT

--------

In article <aKrg7.15451$in6.2266795@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Epona

says...

>



>I had this problem a couple weeks back. I found lice on my younger son and

>also had started itchy scalp myself. Not wanting to use any form of

>chemicals I looked up natural remedies but couldn't find anything that

>seemed likely to work. Instead I bought a good quality metal nit comb from

>the chemist and have been systematically combing all our hair on a daily

>basis. This removed the large adult lice to start with, then each day as

>eggs have hatched, the young lice have been removed too before being able to

>mature and lay more eggs. You need to keep this up for at least 2 weeks, as

>this is the time span for an egg to mature to an adult louse. For the last 2

>days I have not found any lice on combing, although I will continue for a

>few days more just to make sure.

>

>Hope this helps.

>

>Epona

>

Thanks..yes it does help!(-_-)I think we have a handle on it now but I needed

reminding that we have to keep it up or we will end up right at the beginning

again. Dilligence is the key.



Peace,

~*Jo*~ 









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Lice

From: bo <lofasz@shedgabay.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 06:58:40 -0500

--------

We fought these little critters with NO success using Nix and other

commerically available things. Our solution: vaseline worked into the

scalp, then a shower cap for 24 hrs. Then picking nits 2 or 3 times

daily until you see no more. Yes, it's disgusting--but it IS very

effective. Dont EVEN waste your money on Nix or the products that

supposedly allow you to easily comb out nits-- they DO NOT work. $50

later I discovered this truth.





On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:48:10 GMT, ~*Jo*~ <nospam@newsranger.com>

wrote:



>In article <aKrg7.15451$in6.2266795@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Epona

>says...

>>

>

>>I had this problem a couple weeks back. I found lice on my younger son and

>>also had started itchy scalp myself. Not wanting to use any form of

>>chemicals I looked up natural remedies but couldn't find anything that

>>seemed likely to work. Instead I bought a good quality metal nit comb from

>>the chemist and have been systematically combing all our hair on a daily

>>basis. This removed the large adult lice to start with, then each day as

>>eggs have hatched, the young lice have been removed too before being able to

>>mature and lay more eggs. You need to keep this up for at least 2 weeks, as

>>this is the time span for an egg to mature to an adult louse. For the last 2

>>days I have not found any lice on combing, although I will continue for a

>>few days more just to make sure.

>>

>>Hope this helps.

>>

>>Epona

>>

>Thanks..yes it does help!(-_-)I think we have a handle on it now but I needed

>reminding that we have to keep it up or we will end up right at the beginning

>again. Dilligence is the key.

>

>Peace,

>~*Jo*~ 

>







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Homourism for dummies

From: Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:59:34 GMT

--------

Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

astrology fits in to it all.

Laurie Wood Brandt





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:34:54 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com> wrote in message

news:210820010659468013%brandtfamily@sprintmail.com...

> Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

> or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

> explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

> astrology fits in to it all.



I learned my Unani Tibb herbal medicine from this book:



The Traditional Healer's Handbook: 

Classic Guide to the Medicine of Avicenna

by Hakim G. M. Chishti, (Healing Arts Press, Rochester VT, 1991)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892814381/qid%3D998413558/104-9471830-4352731



Good book, interesting stories, but there were occasional flaws in logic. 

 

His misnomered "Split Pea Soup" may have saved my health from further

decline. It is much better described as Afghani Chili, which is an

improved version in a 12 plant recipe. (Downside: it requires about 1-1/2

hours to make while standing up.)



The book is reverently Islamic; (therefore?) Chishti does not discuss

medical astrology.  IMHO, planetary astrology is useful only if the client

or the healer are true believers, since that may invoke the placebo or

shamanic effects. However, lunisolar (sun-moon) medical astrology has a

rational basis, since tidal rhythms are clearly embedded in our genes. 



The purging of humors is thoroughly explained as a modern practice. But

it's unwise to purge clients who are short, tall, or thin (Ayurvedic vata

body types are low on internal resources). 



One of the things I really liked was Chishti's update of blood purging,

generally considered barbaric among modern healers. He suggested that the

patient simply get an allopathic blood test of any type!



Sean

----------------------------------------------------------------------- 

 When G.M. Chishti described a Western-type fatal heart attack to Hakim

(healer) Sherif of Kabul, Afghanistan, the Hakim scoffed saying "People

don't die like that." --The Traditional Healer's Handbook; Chishti,1991

----------------------------------------------------------------------- 









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: meee@lokmail.com (me)

Date: 22 Aug 2001 05:04:41 -0700

--------

Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com> wrote in message news:<210820010659468013%brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>...

> Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

> or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

> explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

> astrology fits in to it all.

> Laurie Wood Brandt



I think, rather, that it is not so much based on it as similar to it

because of same origins.

What is Unani (if you would care to explain, please ?)

Btw, watch it - it's written humours, not homours.  It has the same

origin as the word humor.

me





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:35:22 GMT

--------

Sorry about that fumble fingers stricks again :) What is Unani this is

a quote from Australian Unani Medicine Society Inc.

http://www.traditionalmedicine.net.au/unani.htm "Unani is an Arabic

word that refers to its origins in Ionia in ancient Greece, as Unani

Medicine is primarily based on the ancient methods of medicine that

were used and taught by its traditional founders, namely: Hippocrates,

who lived in Greece between 460 and 370 BC and Galen, who lived in

Greece and later in Rome between 129 and 199 AD. Further considerable

contributions were made by Avicenna, an Arabic scholar who lived in

Iran between 980 and 1036."

Laurie



In article <5587700a.0108220404.4cf8ce72@posting.google.com>, me

<meee@lokmail.com> wrote:



> Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com> wrote in message

> news:<210820010659468013%brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>...

> > Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

> > or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

> > explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

> > astrology fits in to it all.

> > Laurie Wood Brandt

> 

> I think, rather, that it is not so much based on it as similar to it

> because of same origins.

> What is Unani (if you would care to explain, please ?)

> Btw, watch it - it's written humours, not homours.  It has the same

> origin as the word humor.

> me





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: Robyn James <herbalist@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:43:35 GMT

--------

Laurie Brandt wrote:

> 

> Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

> or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

> explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

> astrology fits in to it all.

> Laurie Wood Brandt



Try looking at Graham Tobyn's book on Culpeper - I think it is just

called Culpepers Herbal - if you can't find it under that name email me

and I will track down my copy. It has the best explanation of Galenic

medicine and the doctrine of humours that I know of, and Graham also

specialises in medicinal astrology. Personally, I have to admit skipping

the astrology bits, because I know nothing at all, and so it was a bit

too advanced for me, but my colleague who knows more than me on

astrology thought it was excellent.



Robyn





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: meee@lokmail.com (me)

Date: 22 Aug 2001 09:56:33 -0700

--------

Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com> wrote in message news:<210820010659468013%brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>...

> Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

> or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

> explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

> astrology fits in to it all.

> Laurie Wood Brandt



Have you looked up Paracelsus ? He was a medical doctor, alchemist,

and astrologer, amongst others.

me





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:48:56 GMT

--------



>> Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

>> or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

>> explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

>> astrology fits in to it all.

> Have you looked up Paracelsus ? He was a medical doctor, alchemist,

> and astrologer, amongst others.



...who despised Galenism and saw its obliteration as his life's work.



And also wrote at enormous length in a mind-bendingly weird style (look

up the etymology of "bombastic").



You would need to be really masochistic to use Paracelsus as a starting

point for this stuff.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:19:57 GMT

--------

Yes, and he hated humoursim or Galenism as it was called athe time. His

work on the digestive system was one of the pegs in the coffen of this

theory of human physology.

Laurie Wood Brandt







In article <5587700a.0108220856.3b1b8e39@posting.google.com>, me

<meee@lokmail.com> wrote:



> Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com> wrote in message

> news:<210820010659468013%brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>...

> > Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

> > or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

> > explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

> > astrology fits in to it all.

> > Laurie Wood Brandt

> 

> Have you looked up Paracelsus ? He was a medical doctor, alchemist,

> and astrologer, amongst others.

> me





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: "aw" <aw@nothing.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:08:00 +0200

--------

Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com> wrote in message :

230820010720129276%brandtfamily@sprintmail.com...

> Yes, and he hated humoursim or Galenism as it was called athe time. His

> work on the digestive system was one of the pegs in the coffen of this

> theory of human physology.

> Laurie Wood Brandt





I don't know what exactly the word "Galenism" encompasses, besides the

theory of humours, but I know that Galen was not right on all accounts.

Wasn't there in the 18th century someone in England who uttered the famous

words, "better to err with Galen, than to be right with Harvey !" (as I

remember, Harvey had discovered the real function or workings of the blood

flow in the human body, and had proved Galen wrong.)

On the other hand, the theory of humours is, I think, actually just a

special case of the old world view of the cosmos consisting of four (or

five, with the ether) elements, each humour being attributable to one

element..

Moreover, Paracelsus is known to have said : "The wise man rules his stars,

the fool is ruled by his" ; he has also clearly expressed his disdain for

the stupidity  and the lack of intellectual curiosity of his fellow

practicians of official medicine, who practised a "medical art" which was

not worth this name.

So you will understand that I doubt very much that he "hated humourism or

Galenism".  I don't think he was given much to hate and suchlike ; he was

not that kind of a person.

me



>

>

>

> In article <5587700a.0108220856.3b1b8e39@posting.google.com>, me

> <meee@lokmail.com> wrote:

>

> > Laurie Brandt <brandtfamily@sprintmail.com> wrote in message

> > news:<210820010659468013%brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>...

> > > Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

> > > or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

> > > explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

> > > astrology fits in to it all.

> > > Laurie Wood Brandt

> >

> > Have you looked up Paracelsus ? He was a medical doctor, alchemist,

> > and astrologer, amongst others.

> > me









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:50:50 +0100

--------

dont the tibetan buddhists use astrology in their medical check up.. When I

heard they grind up diamonds and and other gems I thought I gotta hear more.

Then I read about Harry Oldfield and his crystal research...also very

interesting..



Certainly seems possible that a number of cultures have come to similar

conclusions regarding medicine and how to keep well. Ayurvedic seems a

little simpler for basic nitwits like me to get my brain around beginnings

rather than CHinese which very quickly seems to get very complicated..



My herblist is trained in Chinese and has attended a couple of Ayurvedic

lectures, I think he found it interesting but possibly concerned about the

apparent simplicity of the dosha set up...



Sue









Laurie Brandt wrote in message

<210820010659468013%brandtfamily@sprintmail.com>...

>Much of Unani and Ayurveda medicine is based on the theory of Homours

>or Galinism. My problem is none of the material I have read so far has

>explained how is it applied. ie diginos made etc. Or how medicial

>astrology fits in to it all.

>Laurie Wood Brandt









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: "aw" <aw@nothing.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:41:06 +0200

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote in message :

200108222122.RAA12505@ASARian.org...

(...)

> > Have you looked up Paracelsus ? He was a medical doctor, alchemist,

> > and astrologer, amongst others.

>

> Paracelsus as Laurie's study source is twice difficult.

>

> 1) He was the original anti-Galenic (and anti-Unani) physician. "To prove

> his point that ancient authors were no longer correct in their medical

> findings, Paracelsus made an elaborate production of burning the books of

> Galen and Avicenna on the steps of the University of Basel."



Are you quite sure that he was "anti-Galenic" and "anti-Unani" ? Shouldn't

we see him rather more as someone who tried to move his fellows to examine

for themselves and not accept everything on authority ? As such, he was

rather, in my opinion, a champion of spiritual and intellectual freedom.

I think, furthermore, that he should be a good source of information on the

elements.



>

http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Colleges/AGNR/Depts/NutritionFoodScience/Cou

rse_Information/HONR289A/papers2/triad%231.html

>

> 2) Given his revolt against ancient authority, Paracelsus' astrology is

> likely to be quite different than Galenic or Arabian medical astrology.

(...)



Quite possibly.  Wasn't "Galenic" astrology, in other words without doubt

the astrology of Ptolemaeus, the kind of astrology which would deduce from a

person's birth chart the time of his death ? Such a feature does not seem to

be compatible anymore with the spiritual evolution of man, as seen by the

direction it is taking since the development of the "ego" in man.

me.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Homourism for dummies

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:53:34 -0400 (EDT)

--------

me <meee@lokmail.com> wrote in message news:1104_998681115@skynet...

> Foxfire, I just wanted you to note that the reply to your post sent

> by "aw" was sent by me.  I am using public pc's and sometimes the 

> email and/or usenet programs already contain personal data which 

> could lead someone to believe that someone else sent the messsage.

>

> me



Ok.



For lyrical reasons I'm reminded of the scene from the movie _Oh, God!_

(1977), where God, played by George Burns, is sworn in as a court witness.

God concludes the oath by saying "...so help me, Me."   :)



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: haele_d@my-deja.com (Haele)

Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:39:55 -0700

--------

Hate to be accused of putting out TMI, however I'm in a bit of a bind

right now and nothing seems to be working.



I've finally planned a 5 day vacation with my currently out of state

SO to start *after* my regular - ahem - period.  Of course, since

Madame Fate is fickle, my vacation starts tomorrow.  And I'm finally

starting today (yes, there's been a bit of stress which I know hasn't

helped either).  I've been downing parsley, the old family standby

(usually used by honeymooning brides) since Saturday to try and have a

little leeway, but it didn't work very well.



So, my question is...does anyone know of anything fairly safe (and

easily availible) that will help slightly older (40ish) plumbing clean

out quicker without too much cramping or side effects, and allow me to

have at least one or two days clear on my vacation? Excerise and lots

of water is already on the list... (Since I'll be cramping anyway,

that particular side affect wouldn't matter too much.)



Thanks. (sympathy and good wishes would accepted right now, too...) 



Haele





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:25:51 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Haele <haele_d@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:7abb3776.0108211139.7e4cf323@posting.google.com...

> does anyone know of anything fairly safe (and

> easily availible) that will help slightly older (40ish) plumbing clean

> out quicker without too much cramping or side effects, and allow me to

> have at least one or two days clear on my vacation? 



Bummer. I've been on the other side of this with SO's several times. 

Since womens' self-image seems to decline when this happens, I hope your

SO will be sympathetic and supportive. 



Since you are in a hurry, here's five ideas, each with problems. But maybe

they will stimulate someone else's thinking, (or maybe they already have

The Answer). 



You can try to speed it up, stretch it out, or stop it. 



The right uterine function herb might assist greatly. Tsu or others in

a.f.h may know if they post or email you in time. But purchase of that

herb may not be convenient, unless it's at the supermarket.



Uterine massage with liberal use of olive oil might help a lot if you had

help. I asked a friend and she said the massage part does work, if one's

SO has any talent for massage. The maneuver is basically a very slow

downward sweep of the palm heels, dividing to each side at the uterine

bulge. Most people are astonished at how deeply the abdomen can be

comfortably displaced with this oil technique. Of course, don't eat

before. Could you do this in self-massage? Very difficult but, it depends

on your energy level and massage skill. Wrist weights might help. One or

two gallon jugs (filled with very warm water) might assist as a massage

tool, if you can find jugs with a smooth enough bottom. With effort, the

flash on plastic jugs can be scraped off with a saw-edged kitchen knife.



Treadmill exercise theoretically could speed up flow, if by yourself. What

you want is a run-rest-run-rest pattern simulating contractions. Of

course, cramps may make this too unpleasant.



My friend said her mother had the heaviest flow of her life when she drank

two glasses of wine at an evening party on a day that her menses began.

But it might take more than that, if it works, and you could be hung over

tomorrow making everything feel worse for travel. 



For what it's worth, call girls use a pessary and douche to vanish the

flow for about a half hour at a time. Getting a fitting on short notice at

your destination is doubtful, but a gyno/midwife nurse practitioner may be

your best bet.



Just stopping the flow without completing the period may not be a good

idea (infection, etc). But, at your destination you might be able to get a

menstrual extraction done by a doc or nurse practitioner, though it may be

legally tangled, and expensive too. I've heard that some "wymyn's" groups

practice this art, but you probably can't get connected on such short

notice.



For future consideration, I'm told some actresses use extra strength birth

control pills to prevent periods altogether. The usual BCP caveats apply.



Good luck, let us on a.f.h know how it comes out.   :)



Sean

---





Haele <haele_d@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:7abb3776.0108211139.7e4cf323@posting.google.com...

> Hate to be accused of putting out TMI, however I'm in a bit of a bind

> right now and nothing seems to be working.

> 

> I've finally planned a 5 day vacation with my currently out of state

> SO to start *after* my regular - ahem - period.  Of course, since

> Madame Fate is fickle, my vacation starts tomorrow.  And I'm finally

> starting today (yes, there's been a bit of stress which I know hasn't

> helped either).  I've been downing parsley, the old family standby

> (usually used by honeymooning brides) since Saturday to try and have a

> little leeway, but it didn't work very well.

> 

> So, my question is...Excerise and lots

> of water is already on the list... (Since I'll be cramping anyway,

> that particular side affect wouldn't matter too much.)

> 

> Thanks. (sympathy and good wishes would accepted right now, too...) 

> 

> Haele







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: "Susan L. Nielsen" <snielsen@orednet.org>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:33:23 -0700

--------

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Foxfire wrote:



> You can try to speed it up, stretch it out, or stop it. 



and then offered an array of fairly horrendous manipulations

because,



> Haele <haele_d@my-deja.com> wrote in message

> news:7abb3776.0108211139.7e4cf323@posting.google.com...

> > does anyone know of anything fairly safe (and

> > easily availible) that will help slightly older (40ish) plumbing clean

> > out quicker without too much cramping or side effects, and allow me to

> > have at least one or two days clear on my vacation?  



How about if, instead, you say, "Look, babe, we're going through

some normal physiological things here, and it makes intercourse

inconvenient, but there are lots of other ways we can enjoy each

other," and you light some candles, burn some scents, open a

bottle of oil, and play outside. Good heavens, for heaven's sake.

A little proportion is called for here.



Susan

--

Susan Nielsen                   |"A merry heart doeth

                                |good like a medicine."

snielsen@orednet.org            |     -- Proverbs 17:22







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: leeco11@aol.com (LeeCo11)

Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:12:28 GMT

--------

>How about if, instead, you say, "Look, babe, we're going through

>some normal physiological things here, and it makes intercourse

>inconvenient, but there are lots of other ways we can enjoy each

>other," and you light some candles, burn some scents, open a

>bottle of oil, and play outside. Good heavens, for heaven's sake.

>A little proportion is called for here.

>

>Susan



Great advice.  You could even talk.  This might actually be a blessing rather

than a curse.

Lee





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:06:20 -0500

--------

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:18:37 GMT, Alice From Hell

<alicefromhell@hotmail.com> wrote:



>Geez, can you people be a little more judgemental here?

>She never even said if she was going to be with a partner. 



Huh?  I'd say that mentioning going with a usually out of town SO

means a partner, with some sexual or at least romantic implications.





-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: "Anastasia M. Luettecke" <luets@fidnet.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:29:02 -0500

--------

>> >Geez, can you people be a little more judgemental here?

>> >She never even said if she was going to be with a partner.

>>

>> Huh?  I'd say that mentioning going with a usually out of town SO

>> means a partner, with some sexual or at least romantic implications.





I've tried to delay mine a few days, simply because I get TSS and would like

to be able to go swimming at least once while on vacation.



It's not always about sex, you know......









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:57:09 GMT

--------

On 21 Aug 2001 12:39:55 -0700, haele_d@my-deja.com (Haele) wrote:



>Hate to be accused of putting out TMI, however I'm in a bit of a bind

>right now and nothing seems to be working.

>

>I've finally planned a 5 day vacation with my currently out of state

>SO to start *after* my regular - ahem - period.  Of course, since

>Madame Fate is fickle, my vacation starts tomorrow.  And I'm finally

>starting today (yes, there's been a bit of stress which I know hasn't

>helped either).  I've been downing parsley, the old family standby

>(usually used by honeymooning brides) since Saturday to try and have a

>little leeway, but it didn't work very well.

>

>So, my question is...does anyone know of anything fairly safe (and

>easily availible) that will help slightly older (40ish) plumbing clean

>out quicker without too much cramping or side effects, and allow me to

>have at least one or two days clear on my vacation? Excerise and lots

>of water is already on the list... (Since I'll be cramping anyway,

>that particular side affect wouldn't matter too much.)

>

>Thanks. (sympathy and good wishes would accepted right now, too...) 



You most certainly have my sympathy as even though my partner isn't

squeamish, I am, especially when it comes to the brown gunk end of

things!

Can't help with the herbals. Lots and lots of DIY o*gasms might

squeeze things out a bit quicker. Otherwise, I think I'd pack lots of

ibuprofen, a hand douche unless a bidet is available, those wet wipes

for babies and, if you can get hold of one; a menstrual sponge/cap/or

diaphragm.  Btw, the ibuprofen is for the cramps but it also slows

down any bleeding which remains.

Alcohol, as someone mentioned, does make the endometrial lining flow

away more freely [sometimes too freely] but I'm not sure it hastens

the end.



Have a wonderful trip anyway. Seeing how a man copes with this

particular problem is an excellent way of deciding if he's a 'keeper',

IME.



Joanna







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:46:50 +0100

--------

Mines a keeper for sure...



a) He don't mind messing the bed sheets a bit if Im still keen. And in

previous experience with him a little foray into the outside world helps a

pile there...(his parents neighbours will never let us live that one down!!)

;0)



b) If Im not keen, then hes fine with whatever, some playing, none, just

catching up on some sleep will keep him happy!!!



C) He has a crap sense of smell anyway and cant smell a thing when Im

complaining about being particularly stinky....



For me the thing of menses on holiday is the fact I hate to use inserts

(tampons)....so swimming would go out. Sex, well you can do that anyway.. Or

not. Whatever.  Swimming is a bigger dilemma for sure.



good luck with the hols, dont mess with your body too much...let it do its

thang as much as possible..



peace love harmony and no PMT!!!!



Sue

x











Joanna Prescott wrote in message

<1g07oto9n1lthcj96t62p1lq33ssmor5fp@4ax.com>...

>On 21 Aug 2001 12:39:55 -0700, haele_d@my-deja.com (Haele) wrote:

>

>>Hate to be accused of putting out TMI, however I'm in a bit of a bind

>>right now and nothing seems to be working.

>>

>>I've finally planned a 5 day vacation with my currently out of state

>>SO to start *after* my regular - ahem - period.  Of course, since

>>Madame Fate is fickle, my vacation starts tomorrow.  And I'm finally

>>starting today (yes, there's been a bit of stress which I know hasn't

>>helped either).  I've been downing parsley, the old family standby

>>(usually used by honeymooning brides) since Saturday to try and have a

>>little leeway, but it didn't work very well.

>>

>>So, my question is...does anyone know of anything fairly safe (and

>>easily availible) that will help slightly older (40ish) plumbing clean

>>out quicker without too much cramping or side effects, and allow me to

>>have at least one or two days clear on my vacation? Excerise and lots

>>of water is already on the list... (Since I'll be cramping anyway,

>>that particular side affect wouldn't matter too much.)

>>

>>Thanks. (sympathy and good wishes would accepted right now, too...)

>

>You most certainly have my sympathy as even though my partner isn't

>squeamish, I am, especially when it comes to the brown gunk end of

>things!

>Can't help with the herbals. Lots and lots of DIY o*gasms might

>squeeze things out a bit quicker. Otherwise, I think I'd pack lots of

>ibuprofen, a hand douche unless a bidet is available, those wet wipes

>for babies and, if you can get hold of one; a menstrual sponge/cap/or

>diaphragm.  Btw, the ibuprofen is for the cramps but it also slows

>down any bleeding which remains.

>Alcohol, as someone mentioned, does make the endometrial lining flow

>away more freely [sometimes too freely] but I'm not sure it hastens

>the end.

>

>Have a wonderful trip anyway. Seeing how a man copes with this

>particular problem is an excellent way of deciding if he's a 'keeper',

>IME.

>

>Joanna

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal help for timing issues...please!

From: haele_d@my-deja.com (Haele)

Date: 27 Aug 2001 15:35:14 -0700

--------

Joanna Prescott <joannaprescott@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1g07oto9n1lthcj96t62p1lq33ssmor5fp@4ax.com>...

> On 21 Aug 2001 12:39:55 -0700, haele_d@my-deja.com (Haele) wrote:

>

(snip question) 

> Can't help with the herbals. Lots and lots of DIY o*gasms might

> squeeze things out a bit quicker. Otherwise, I think I'd pack lots of

> ibuprofen, a hand douche unless a bidet is available, those wet wipes

> for babies and, if you can get hold of one; a menstrual sponge/cap/or

> diaphragm.  Btw, the ibuprofen is for the cramps but it also slows

> down any bleeding which remains.

> Alcohol, as someone mentioned, does make the endometrial lining flow

> away more freely [sometimes too freely] but I'm not sure it hastens

> the end.

> 

> Have a wonderful trip anyway. Seeing how a man copes with this

> particular problem is an excellent way of deciding if he's a 'keeper',

> IME.

> 

> Joanna



Thanks to those offering useful advice, I drank lots of natural red

grape and black-current juice(as well as a little - not too much -

more wine than normal) and it did manage to end a few days earlier

than normal, so I had at least two good days.



And for the all the others...hey, sex is *not* the only important

thing when taking a vacation with the SO(who was more concerned that I

was feeling okay than anything else) ...feeling comfortable and having

fun doing things like staying up and dancing, doing "the jacuzzi",

horseback riding, and site-seeing in public are also very, very

important.  Cramps, feeling "goopy", and general listless really do

screw a vacation up.



Anyway, no harm, no foul.  Thanks again for useful advice.



Haele





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Chitosan

From: d <sweetgrass@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:29:21 GMT

--------

I was wondering if there are side effects associated with its use?  Does

it work?  Any testimonials or horror stories?



Thanks in advance :-)

d







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Chitosan

From: jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie)

Date: 22 Aug 2001 16:20:42 GMT

--------

d <sweetgrass@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I was wondering if there are side effects associated with its use?  Does

> it work?  Any testimonials or horror stories?



A published medical study showed chitosan to be no more effective

than placebo for weight loss.



-- 

  jamie  (mjwm@austin.rr.com)



  		"There's a seeker born every minute."







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: sangre de drago

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 22 Aug 2001 07:58:42 GMT

--------

from jferreira@ashaninka.com (Juan Jose Ferreira) :



> In case anybody is looking for a source for it, please visit

  www.sangrededrago.net, we carry an extensive line of products, plus

  info, pix and links.



If you're going to push this commercial Web site, the least you or the

webmaster could do is make it accessible without fancy acrobatics and

gymnastics.  You or the webmaster needs to browse



http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign



All I saw was [EMBED] with a link to intro.swf, and I recognize .swf extension

as Shockwave, even though my software doesn't.  So I couldn't see anything

meaningful.



I want to see information, not glitz, on Web sites, and I interpret Shockwave

in lieu of HTML as an indication that the company and its Web site are just full

of hot air with no substance.







==========

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness.weights,alt.sport.weightlifting,alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Ringworm Attack. Need Help

From: Jake <jk@noemailaccess.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:24:46 -0400

--------

Hi,



I have been workout at a local gym for 3 months and I recently got jock

itch (ringworm). Is there a natural way to slow down, fight and finally

eliminate (not suppress) this troublesome fungus through natural and

safe methods?



I am trying to avoid using drugs to suppress this infection.



Please respond only if you or your friends have had personal experiences

with this problem. I am not looking for guesses or rumored solutions.



Thanks for your help.



Jake





==========

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness.weights,alt.sport.weightlifting,alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: Ringworm Attack. Need Help

From: "Evelyn Ruut" <mama_lion@ulster.net>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:06:22 GMT

--------



"Jake" <jk@noemailaccess.com> wrote in message

news:3B83A48E.49CA1548@noemailaccess.com...

> Hi,

>

> I have been workout at a local gym for 3 months and I recently got jock

> itch (ringworm). Is there a natural way to slow down, fight and finally

> eliminate (not suppress) this troublesome fungus through natural and

> safe methods?

>

> I am trying to avoid using drugs to suppress this infection.

>

> Please respond only if you or your friends have had personal experiences

> with this problem. I am not looking for guesses or rumored solutions.

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Jake



Dear Jake,



Take a bath (not a shower) and put a tiny bit of clorox in the water.   Not

enough to harm you of course, but it is a powerful anti-fungal.  I'd say a

couple of tablespoonfuls to a tub.



Keep the area very dry.   There are antifungal creams on the market, like

lotrimin, that do a good job, but sometimes splashing something on the skin,

like (believe it or not) old fashioned yellow Listerine, which I have found

works better than half the creams out there.   It can sting for a bit, but

it also cools the itch and dries the skin some because it contains some

alcohol.



Powders which are antifungal and fresh dry underwear as often as you can.

Sweating will aggravate it.



Usually that is enough to get rid of it if it is a mild fungal infection.

If it gets really entrenched deeply in the skin layers though, you might

find it worthwhile to use the antifungals available for that purpose.



There are herbs that are supposed to help fungal infections, but somehow

they never worked very well with the people I know.



Others may have some other suggestions that may work, but the most important

thing is to act quickly so it doesn't become deeply entrenched.   The longer

you leave it untreated the more hard it will be to get rid of it.



E.









==========

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness.weights,alt.sport.weightlifting,alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: Ringworm Attack. Need Help

From: Merle Finch <merle@wnt.sas.com>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:47:22 -0400

--------

FWIW, regarding the controversy over bleach vs. Listerine vs. other

methods of combating ringworm: Consumer Reports studied whether bleach

was the most effective way of combating mildew, cleaning surfaces,

etc. and discovered that apple cider vinegar was actually MORE

effective than bleach. This should be helpful for people who consider

whether they should add bleach to water to help treat things like

ringworm because the vinegar is not a toxin. I use vinegar to prevent

mold in my tabletop fountain because my cats use it as a water dish

and it works.



---

Merle Finch     SAS Institute, Inc.   Cary NC USA

Opinions expressed probably never reflect those of SAS Institute.





==========

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness.weights,alt.sport.weightlifting,alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: Ringworm Attack. Need Help

From: Rich Andrews <abuse@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:48:53 GMT

--------

Merle Finch <merle@wnt.sas.com> wrote in 

news:4FyKOwWFip5H7+VwOoCSLbSP2hx2@4ax.com:



> FWIW, regarding the controversy over bleach vs. Listerine vs. other

> methods of combating ringworm: Consumer Reports studied whether bleach

> was the most effective way of combating mildew, cleaning surfaces,

> etc. and discovered that apple cider vinegar was actually MORE

> effective than bleach. This should be helpful for people who consider

> whether they should add bleach to water to help treat things like

> ringworm because the vinegar is not a toxin. I use vinegar to prevent

> mold in my tabletop fountain because my cats use it as a water dish

> and it works.

> 

> ---

> Merle Finch     SAS Institute, Inc.   Cary NC USA

> Opinions expressed probably never reflect those of SAS Institute.

> 



As I recall, vinegar and salt makes for a good copper cleaner too.



rich







-- 

"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism

 by those who have not got it." 

- George Bernard Shaw







==========

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness.weights,alt.sport.weightlifting,alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: Ringworm Attack. Need Help

From: D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:43:51 -0700

--------

In <3B83A48E.49CA1548@noemailaccess.com> Jake posted:



> I have been workout at a local gym for 3 months and I recently got jock

> itch (ringworm). Is there a natural way to slow down, fight and finally

> eliminate (not suppress) this troublesome fungus through natural and

> safe methods?

> 

> I am trying to avoid using drugs to suppress this infection.

> 

> Please respond only if you or your friends have had personal experiences

> with this problem. I am not looking for guesses or rumored solutions.



Jock itch is usually not the same fungus as ringworm.

Which is a good thing -- lots of air and sunshine do the

trick, quite naturally.



-- 

| I'm old enough that I don't have to pretend to be grown up.|

+----------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ----------+







==========

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness.weights,alt.sport.weightlifting,alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: Ringworm Attack. Need Help

From: Dilworth <bactitech@hortonsbay.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:34:26 -0400

--------

The fungi that cause jock itch are usually Trichophyton species of

various types.  I'm not going into treatment as that has been brought up

in a previous post.



Suffice it to say that, in the lab, we plate fungal cultures on media

and place them in 30 degree centigrade incubators, as this is an ideal

temperature for fungi to grow.  Trichophytons take one to two weeks to

start showing up on media.  All fungi grow outward from a central point,

as they put out hyphae to continue growth.



If you are providing a moist, 30 degree atmosphere for your home grown

colony, it will continue to grow.  The fungi produce macro and micro

conidia as they grow.  Macroconidia are more thick walled, and I assume

harder to kill off than the microconidia, but I don't know that for

sure.



Whatever you do, one treatment is NOT going to cut it.  Even if you bite

the bullet and buy some over-the-counter treatment (which works pretty

well if you use it as labelled) you're looking at one months minimum

treatment at least.  This same fungus can also cause athlete's foot and

can be spread in your moist tub to other family members.  Clean your tub

with bleach cleaner when you're done.  This will help kill off spores in

the tub and will help prevent passing on the fungus to the feet of

anyone else using the tub.



Wash your clothes in HOT water, preferably with bleach if they can stand

them.  Don't re-wear any of your workout clothes - wash them after each

use.  Dry them in a hot dryer if you can.  Keep your skin as dry as

possible at all times.  Wear cotton fibers as opposed to man-made

fibers.  



http://www.aomc.org/HOD2/general/general-JOCK.html



This web site advises against too much scrubbing of the area.



http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/other/TineaCorporis_Cruris_Pedis.htm#TineaCruris



This web site also provides information as to a differential diagnosis. 

You could have a Candida infection (a yeast infection) depending upon

the degree of scrotal involvement in the infection (this is not very

common, but something to keep in mind, according to the web site). 



http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/CANDIDA/Cutaneous_General.htm#Predispose



My mother, who is now a diabetic, had yeast infections of her skin for a

couple of years before the onset of her diabetes, so if you are

overweight, and this is a yeast infection, this could be a big warning

sign to you.  Diabetics have a lot of problems with Candida infections

if their sugar is out of control.  Now that her sugar is in control, she

doesn't have these infections any more.



This web site advises using a separate towel for the groin region when

bathing.



http://www.doctorfungus.org/imageban/index.htm



Check out Trichophyton mentagrophytes or any of the other Trichophytons

if you want to see pictures.



Good luck.



Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)

Microbiology



Jake wrote:



> I have been workout at a local gym for 3 months and I recently got jock

> itch (ringworm). Is there a natural way to slow down, fight and finally

> eliminate (not suppress) this troublesome fungus through natural and

> safe methods?





==========

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness.weights,alt.sport.weightlifting,alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: Ringworm Attack. Need Help

From: Dilworth <bactitech@hortonsbay.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:35:22 -0400

--------

Well, he could burn the house down and that would get rid of the fungal

spores.....honestly, a 20% household bleach solution will work wonders

at cleaning his bathtub.  Use one part bleach and five parts water. 

Make it up new on a weekly basis in a spray bottle.  We used this for

years on all our benchtops for disinfection.



Who is going to heat the bleach to 700 degrees?  Why would you do this

in your bathtub????



Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)

Microbiology



mnt wrote:

> 

> Do not do this the bleach will make you very sick,  Get rid of all chlorine

> product in you house and never use them again

> 

> When Bleach is heated to 700 degrees  what compound is formed?





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: need help deciphering old cure

From: schapman@istar.ca (s chapman)

Date: 23 Aug 2001 13:50:09 -0700

--------

Hi folks, I am going through a journal (dates from the 1770s) that

contains a number of recipes.  The page that I am working on has me

stumped in a couple of places.  Here is the url for the page:

http://home.istar.ca/~schapman/ringbone.jpg



The part that I am having trouble with is at the bottom of the page:



for powl evil [inflammation of the bursa in a horse's neck] take

Akea furtos [spelling - can't ID] 3 peneworth

oyl of Rignum [spelling - can't ID] 12d

Spirits of Nitre 12d





any ideas?





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Regarding the tense environment in the ringworm thread.....

From: "Anastasia M. Luettecke" <luets@fidnet.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:06:03 -0500

--------

Okay, folks.  Let's keep in mind that the newsgroup is entitled

alt.FOLKLORE.herbs.  Let's not go and personally attack people for relaying

information that they may have received from folklore.  I, too, had heard of

bathing in a weak bleach solution.  I've also heard of using Listerine as

something other than an antiseptic.  I assumed that these were old cures,

but chalked them up to folklore, and read on with interest to see what else

might have been used.  I, however, did not start shouting names at posters

for their supposed stupidity.  It's folklore.  Let's just state that it

might not be a good idea and get on with it.  No more yelling about 700

degrees Kelvin or Centigrade or Fahrenheit or the like.  Let's not try to

force others into our ways of thinking.  State your opinions and move on.

I'd hate to have to unsubscribe from this newsgroup because of infighting.

If the group wants to start prescribing herbal and homeopathic remedies,

start a new newsgroup for those purposes.



Let's get back to the folklore.



Anastasia









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Regarding the tense environment in the ringworm thread.....

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:10:48 +0100

--------

Anastasia,  I think because it was sent to so many ng's it's attracted

replies from one or two trolls who don't actually live here  :o/



Don't generally get crazies in this group.



Actually a dilute solution of bleach was once recommended to me for a thrush

infection.  In the end what worked was a tiny bottle of drops sold by a

reputable company here called Biocare which worked extremely well & smelled

faintly of bleach, but I think they must have messed around with it to take

out some of the harmful chemicals - I didnt really understand the

science-speak that came with it:  Oxy-Pro drops ...'de-ionised water,

hyperoxygenated sodium ions"!

I normally react really badly even to the smell of ordinary bleach, yet this

stuff gave me no problems dunked on my skin several times a day....









"Anastasia M. Luettecke" <luets@fidnet.com> wrote in message

news:3b85c15c_2@skycache-news.fidnet.com...

> Okay, folks.  Let's keep in mind that the newsgroup is entitled

> alt.FOLKLORE.herbs.  Let's not go and personally attack people for

relaying

> information that they may have received from folklore.  I, too, had heard

of

> bathing in a weak bleach solution.  I've also heard of using Listerine as

> something other than an antiseptic.  I assumed that these were old cures,

> but chalked them up to folklore, and read on with interest to see what

else

> might have been used.  I, however, did not start shouting names at posters

> for their supposed stupidity.  It's folklore.  Let's just state that it

> might not be a good idea and get on with it.  No more yelling about 700

> degrees Kelvin or Centigrade or Fahrenheit or the like.  Let's not try to

> force others into our ways of thinking.  State your opinions and move on.

> I'd hate to have to unsubscribe from this newsgroup because of infighting.

> If the group wants to start prescribing herbal and homeopathic remedies,

> start a new newsgroup for those purposes.

>

> Let's get back to the folklore.

>

> Anastasia

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Regarding the tense environment in the ringworm thread.....

From: "Evelyn Ruut" <mama_lion@ulster.net>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:34:31 GMT

--------



"bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:pkph7.570$3f.172744@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...

> Anastasia,  I think because it was sent to so many ng's it's attracted

> replies from one or two trolls who don't actually live here  :o/

>

> Don't generally get crazies in this group.

>

> Actually a dilute solution of bleach was once recommended to me for a

thrush

> infection.  In the end what worked was a tiny bottle of drops sold by a

> reputable company here called Biocare which worked extremely well &

smelled

> faintly of bleach, but I think they must have messed around with it to

take

> out some of the harmful chemicals - I didnt really understand the

> science-speak that came with it:  Oxy-Pro drops ...'de-ionised water,

> hyperoxygenated sodium ions"!

> I normally react really badly even to the smell of ordinary bleach, yet

this

> stuff gave me no problems dunked on my skin several times a day....





I think that it may have been a peroxide solution of some kind from what you

describe.   That is another absolutely great skin "cure" - works on

blemishes and lots of other things as well.   There are plenty of old

available and effective products that people have forgotten in the light of

modern druggery.



The people from the other newsgroups that replied with such hysteria are

mostly from the weightlifter groups.



Half those guys are narcissistic fitness freaks on testosterone overdrive

(not to mention the ones on steroids that flip out if someone looks at them

crosseyed)



(grinning)

Ev









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Regarding the tense environment in the ringworm thread.....

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:37:01 +0100

--------

Of course!  I'd forgotten about the very popular acne remedies sold  here

(Oxy5 & Oxy10).  Having had 2 boys that used them I remember that they

bleached the bedlinen something awful !  We still have 'tie-dye' effect

pillowcases :o)



"Evelyn Ruut" <mama_lion@ulster.net> wrote in message

news:0Zqh7.1089$m5.1134501@newsfeed1.thebiz.net...



> I think that it may have been a peroxide solution of some kind from what

you

> describe.   That is another absolutely great skin "cure" - works on

> blemishes and lots of other things as well.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Regarding the tense environment in the ringworm thread.....

From: "Axel Grease" <Axel@NoSpam.com>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:39:28 -0400

--------

Foxfire wrote in message <200108240424.AAA27956@ASARian.org>...

> >Anastasia M. Luettecke wrote:

>Unlike this a.f.h only thread, the "Ringworm Attack. Need Help" thread is

>much crossposted:

>sci.med.nutrition, misc.fitness.weights, alt.sport.weightlifting,

>alt.folklore.herbs, misc.health.alternative





T'would be grand if cross-postings with innane flames and foul-breathed

Trolling were not so easily inflicted.  Sir Jake seems to have opened a door

quite widely to that

sub-pubescent twaddle.



Kill-file time.... mnt = Mark Brockway = qwazz = fraggle = Jake = Gonerz



Axel













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Regarding the tense environment in the ringworm thread.....

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 25 Aug 2001 07:53:23 GMT

--------

from "Anastasia M. Luettecke" <luets@fidnet.com> :



  Okay, folks.  Let's keep in mind that the newsgroup is entitled

  alt.FOLKLORE.herbs.  Let's not go and personally attack people for relaying

  information that they may have received from folklore.  I, too, had heard of

  bathing in a weak bleach solution.  I've also heard of using Listerine as

  something other than an antiseptic.  I assumed that these were old cures,

  but chalked them up to folklore, and read on with interest to see what else

  might have been used.  I, however, did not start shouting names at posters

  for their supposed stupidity.  It's folklore.  Let's just state that it

  might not be a good idea and get on with it.  No more yelling about 700

  degrees Kelvin or Centigrade or Fahrenheit or the like.  Let's not try to

  force others into our ways of thinking.  State your opinions and move on.

  I'd hate to have to unsubscribe from this newsgroup because of infighting.

  If the group wants to start prescribing herbal and homeopathic remedies,

  start a new newsgroup for those purposes.



  Let's get back to the folklore.



  Anastasia

(end of quote)



Actually, this thread was cross-posted to five newsgroups total:



Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness.weights,alt.sport.weightlifting,alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative



Xref: uni-berlin.de sci.med.nutrition:158775 misc.fitness.weights:695220 alt.sport.weightlifting:32626 alt.folklore.herbs:113744 misc.health.alternative:293713



so it's not just folklore, and not just herbs.



Henriette posted messages about the origin of this newsgroup (1992?), before

some of the other newsgroup hierarchies were in place.  So serious herbal

remedies are definitely on-topic, but "folklore" in the name is an invitation to

post messages regarding herbal folklore.  Much herbal medicine has roots in

folklore, from times when modern scientific labs didn't exist.  People who post

to newsgroups are not necessarily familiar with the history of the individual

newsgroups.



I haven't been able to find a newsgroup for homeopathy, which is not really

herbal in that the doses are very tiny, and the homeopathic remedies are not all

of plant origin.  Some (Lachesis = bushmaster snake, for one) are of animal

origin, and some are of mineral origin (Arsenicum album, for instance).  I found

free.uk.homeopathy some time ago, but no activity on that newsgroup.

Conceivably a homeopathy newsgroup might have started since I last looked?



For herbs, there is also a much less active newsgroup, own.health.herbs, not

carried by so many servers as alt.folklore.herbs







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Is Rasta/Anya still in here?

From: preesigirl@aol.com (PreesiGirl)

Date: 24 Aug 2001 16:41:20 GMT

--------

See above





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: OT : Re: Medicinal herbFAQ Part 1/7

From: <meee@lokmail.com>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:38:33 GMT

--------

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:00:50 +0300,  Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote :

> Archive-name: medicinal-herbs/part1

(...)

> 

>    * Anything else you see posted every so often, but that I haven't

>      included in the FAQ or on the wishlist.

> 

> If you wish to contribute send me a short note; I'll keep track of who

> promised to do what, and if you can't find the time to put something

> together in two months your topic will be up for grabs again.

> Your contribution can be as long as you wish to make it; but it should be

> GOOD (like all the entries in this FAQ - thanks, folks).

> 

> Also, if you really know what you are talking about I'd like to hear your

> comments on any entry in this FAQ.

> 

> (Strange - all I ever get is 'Good Show. Keep it up.', but no-one ever

> tells me if they found any errors.)



I am sorry for this somewhat acerbic note, but  I couldn't help it - I didn't read through the whole faq, I just felt compelled 

to comment this little sideline :

you know, that's just normal - they are all made to believe they are supremely important, so, as they are important, they 

go around, patting people on the back, giving benevolent smiles (just as important people do...) ; but pointing out errors 

? In their view, that's much too dangerous.

me











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Sampling of berries on thorny bushes

From: me <meee@lokmail.com>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:15:22 GMT

--------

On the French and Belgian North Sea beaches, in the dunes, there is at places a profuse growth of a kind of dark grey-

green thorny bushes which at this moment are bearing plenty of small orange berries ; these have a pronounced 

astringent/acid taste and are known to contain more vitamin C than, for example, oranges.

In dutch this plant is called "duindoorn". 

I made a rather pleasant, refreshing and nice smelling (non commercial !) drink by just steeping about a part of 

somewhat crushed berries with some tops of nettles, and peppermint leaves in cold water for a few hours (I was inspired 

by necessity, as I had been wandering in the dunes under a blistering sun for some time, and did not have the possibility 

to go to town look for a shop, as everything was closed because of 15h Aug. holiday...).

Who said again that "necessity is the mother of invention" ?

Could anyone in this ng give me advice about how to sample these berries in a fast and efficient way without getting too 

much hurt by the thorns ? I tried to, but it's very slow and you have to be careful.

Thanks.

me







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Sampling of berries on thorny bushes

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:15:55 +0300

--------

me <meee@lokmail.com> wrote:



> Could anyone in this ng give me advice about how to sample these berries in a fast and efficient way without getting too 

> much hurt by the thorns ? I tried to, but it's very slow and you have to be careful.



Most fast ways to use Hippophae rhamnoides (Sea buckthorn) injure the plant. And

it is a very slow grower. 



So use a fork to push berries into a container. That way you won't hurt the

plant, and your hands stay more or less unlacerated.



A few picking tools have been developed for the industrial picker, up here. All

that injure the plant are outlawed. It's also against Finnish law to pick the

berries by cutting up branches. And we cannot pick berries of wild bushes (it's

native to our coasts) before October; they're simply not ripe earlier.



Cheers

Henriette (USD 10 per liter berry juice... yes, there's poaching. Lots.)



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Sampling of berries on thorny bushes

From: meee@lokmail.com (me)

Date: 29 Aug 2001 12:08:19 -0700

--------

Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message news:<e7ddotkktl6ri2qqu21a0bdtt8r1hqas0f@4ax.com>...

> me <meee@lokmail.com> wrote:

> 

> > Could anyone in this ng give me advice about how to sample these berries in a fast and efficient way without getting too 

> > much hurt by the thorns ? I tried to, but it's very slow and you have to be careful.

> 

> Most fast ways to use Hippophae rhamnoides (Sea buckthorn) injure the plant. And

> it is a very slow grower. 

> 

> So use a fork to push berries into a container. That way you won't hurt the

> plant, and your hands stay more or less unlacerated.



If I use a fork to pull the berries off, won't I crush them even

before I use them ?



> 

> A few picking tools have been developed for the industrial picker, up here. All

> that injure the plant are outlawed. It's also against Finnish law to pick the

> berries by cutting up branches. And we cannot pick berries of wild bushes (it's

> native to our coasts) before October; they're simply not ripe earlier.



Here, more south, they are apparently ripe much earlier.  I didn't

know such a great divergence was possible for just one plant species.

Thanks for you reply.

me



> 

> Cheers

> Henriette (USD 10 per liter berry juice... yes, there's poaching. Lots.)





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Sampling of berries on thorny bushes

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:34:53 +0300

--------

meee@lokmail.com (me) wrote:



> If I use a fork to pull the berries off, won't I crush them even

> before I use them ?



Yes, but that's why you have your handy container right under your fork.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbs to use for sinus or alergies

From: shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com (Bob)

Date: 24 Aug 2001 12:20:07 -0700

--------

I would like to try herbs to use for sinus and allergy problems. I

take Claritin for allergies and it works well but i am concerned about

what long- term effects it could have, same with herbs. I am

open-minded about herbs but want to hear from long-time herb users

what benefits you have received, also negative if any.I would not be

hesitant to use herbs for other problems. Any good books someone can

recommend on herbs- how to use and what they help. Thanks to  all.

Bob.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to use for sinus or alergies

From: manono <bush@nd.mountains>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:00:23 +1200

--------

Cod liver oil is great for allergies and cured my hayfever after 35

years of summer hell.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to use for sinus or alergies

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:38:27 -0400 (EDT)

--------

manono <bush@nd.mountains> wrote in message

news:3B8E8D45.4431B855@nd.mountains...

> Cod liver oil is great for allergies and cured my hayfever after 35

> years of summer hell.



How much and how often? 

Eyedroppersful down the gullet    ):(O)

or in food?

What symptoms did you have?

Did you buy a refrigerated cod oil product?



Hmm... maybe worked due to vitamin A, omega 3, and omega 6 EFAs?

(Essential Fatty Acids, the "new" vitamins)



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to use for sinus or alergies

From: manono <bush@nd.mountains>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:43:04 +1200

--------

Yes its the omegas, help yr immunity, I take pearls, two daily and up to

4 if allergy threatens, repeat as needed.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: kategis@ivillage.com (kategis)

Date: 24 Aug 2001 15:25:00 -0700

--------

Does anyone know what would have been used as smelling salts in the

ancient world, particularly in the Mediterranean region?



Thank you in advance,

Kategis





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:53:08 -0400 (EDT)

--------

kategis <kategis@ivillage.com> wrote in message

news:734e698c.0108241425.7607e0a4@posting.google.com...

> Does anyone know what would have been used as smelling salts in the

> ancient world, particularly in the Mediterranean region?



Please tell me if I've missed something, but why would any culture other

than Victorian era women, wearing wasp-waist corsets, use or need smelling

salts?



When I was a boy, they were used occasionally on TV, and I knew they were

for fainting. We had a very old little bottle of something pungent in the

med cabinet, but not labeled "smelling salts". At my home nobody ever

fainted. Are other families different?



In fact, only once in my life did I ever see anyone actually faint. We

were all drawing our blood for typing A,B,A-B, or O in my high school

biology class.  Heh, it was one of the boys.   :)



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:36:24 +0300

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:



> At my home nobody ever fainted. Are other families different?



Yes.



Low bloodpressure would do it, if you stand up too suddenly.



As to the original question, try camphor.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:26:00 -0400 (EDT)

--------

kategis <kategis@ivillage.com> wrote in message

news:734e698c.0108241425.7607e0a4@posting.google.com...

> Does anyone know what would have been used as smelling salts in the

> ancient world, particularly in the Mediterranean region?



Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:vpheotcovj78hvrkkvtk6e2e9dnhrm1qfi@4ax.com...

> 

> [...] try camphor.



Maybe, but both "ancient" and "Mediterranean"? 



Steam distillation of camphor laurel parts could probably not be done much

earlier than a millennium ago. Maybe much later considering the large

metal boilers and quantities of laurel required for commercial trade in

distilled camphor.



Grieve states that (natural) camphor is found in the hollow centers of

only old trees, and must be located by exploratory incision. Very labor

intensive. http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/c/campho13.html



Also, camphor laurels seem to be much more common in southeast Asia, so

natural camphor might have arrived in the Mediterranean relatively late.



In pre-Christian ancient times, perhaps camphor was beyond availability

and means of the average Mediterranean family?



Sean

---













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:14:44 +0300

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:

> kategis <kategis@ivillage.com> wrote:

> > Does anyone know what would have been used as smelling salts in the

> > ancient world, particularly in the Mediterranean region?

> 

> Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote:

> > 

> > [...] try camphor.

> 

> Maybe, but both "ancient" and "Mediterranean"? 



IIRC the Arabs had camphor. It's old, old.



But ancient Mediterrannean smelling salts - naaah. I don't think so. That one

sounds far too fifteenhundreds to me.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: "Sally Pointer" <SallyPointer@btinternet.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:29:58 +0100

--------



"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:9m9hf0$3n5$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

>   I don't KNOW- but as soon as I saw your subject line, I immediately

> thouight of lavendar. One thinks of a restorative mixture.

> --

>

> -- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

> refuses to stay between the lines when parking --

>

> "kategis" <kategis@ivillage.com> wrote in message

> news:734e698c.0108241425.7607e0a4@posting.google.com...

> > Does anyone know what would have been used as smelling salts in the

> > ancient world, particularly in the Mediterranean region?

> >

> > Thank you in advance,

> > Kategis

>

> I've been doing some failry serious research into aromatics in the past

and I don't remember anything offhand for use specifically as 'smelling

salts', but Dioscorides does talk in depth about the curative powers of

aromatic vinegars, that would plausibly have smelling salt properties. I'll

try and dig out my copy and see if he makes specific reference. May I be so

bold as to enquire why you want to know this specific thing? (thinking that

maybe here is someone else researching the same areas...)

Sally









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: kategis@ivillage.com (kategis)

Date: 28 Aug 2001 03:49:52 -0700

--------

> >

> > I've been doing some failry serious research into aromatics in the past

> and I don't remember anything offhand for use specifically as 'smelling

> salts', but Dioscorides does talk in depth about the curative powers of

> aromatic vinegars, that would plausibly have smelling salt properties. I'll

> try and dig out my copy and see if he makes specific reference. May I be so

> bold as to enquire why you want to know this specific thing? (thinking that

> maybe here is someone else researching the same areas...)

> Sally



The "why" is simple.  I'm a writer and I've got a woman passed out in

the 4th century B.C. and need to wake her up! :)



Thank you so much for your help!

Kategis





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: Dr Corinne B Leek <cleek@ns.sympatico.ca>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:58:19 GMT

--------

On 28 Aug 2001 03:49:52 -0700, kategis@ivillage.com (kategis) wrote:



>> > I've been doing some failry serious research into aromatics in the past

>> and I don't remember anything offhand for use specifically as 'smelling

>> salts', but Dioscorides does talk in depth about the curative powers of

>> aromatic vinegars, that would plausibly have smelling salt properties. I'll

>> try and dig out my copy and see if he makes specific reference. May I be so

>> bold as to enquire why you want to know this specific thing? (thinking that

>> maybe here is someone else researching the same areas...)

>> Sally

>

>The "why" is simple.  I'm a writer and I've got a woman passed out in

>the 4th century B.C. and need to wake her up! :)

Why not the simple good ol' stand by??  

Cold water dumped on the face?

Usually readily available.

Not requiring complicated ingredients.

K.I.S.S.

Then you can even have the fun of the character deaking with wet,

clammy garments.



Dr Corinne B Leek

Nova Scotia



--

*** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger!

*** cleek@ns.sympatico.ca





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:22:57 -0500

--------

On 28 Aug 2001 03:49:52 -0700, kategis@ivillage.com (kategis) wrote:





>The "why" is simple.  I'm a writer and I've got a woman passed out in

>the 4th century B.C. and need to wake her up! :)



In novels of the 17th, 18th, and early 19th, centuries, I've read of

burning feathers being held under the nose of the fainter.  It could

be a home remedy that went back to much earlier times.  



-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: "Susan L. Nielsen" <snielsen@orednet.org>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:51:24 -0700

--------

On 28 Aug 2001 03:49:52 -0700, kategis@ivillage.com (kategis) wrote:



>The "why" is simple.  I'm a writer and I've got a woman passed out in

>the 4th century B.C. and need to wake her up! :)



Throw a bucket of water on her.



Susan

--

Susan Nielsen, Shambles Workshops      		|"...Gently down the  

Beavercreek, OR, USA -- snielsen@orednet.org  	|stream..." -- Anon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------	

Purveyors of fine honey, Jacob Sheep, Ashford spinning products

			and Interweave books







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: meee@lokmail.com (me)

Date: 29 Aug 2001 12:13:44 -0700

--------

"Susan L. Nielsen" <snielsen@orednet.org> wrote in message news:<Pine.SUN.3.96.1010828225033.2564C-100000@compass.oregonvos.net>...

> On 28 Aug 2001 03:49:52 -0700, kategis@ivillage.com (kategis) wrote:

> 

> >The "why" is simple.  I'm a writer and I've got a woman passed out in

> >the 4th century B.C. and need to wake her up! :)

> 

> Throw a bucket of water on her.



That's a remedy more commonly prescribed for separating copulating dogs.

me





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:29:05 -0400 (EDT)

--------

kategis <kategis@ivillage.com> wrote in message

news:734e698c.0108280249.584778ad@posting.google.com...

> > Sally Pointer <SallyPointer@btinternet.com> wrote in message

> > news:9mbf78$be2$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

> > [...]

> > May I be so bold as to enquire why you want to know this specific 

> > thing? (thinking that maybe here is someone else researching the 

> > same areas...)

> 

> The "why" is simple.  I'm a writer and I've got a woman passed out in

> the 4th century B.C. and need to wake her up! :)



In which case, common folklore is as good or better than formal ancient

medical practices.



G.M. Chishti (_Traditional Healer's Handbook_ (1991), Unani medicine

following Avicenna (1000 C.E.) who followed Galen (150 C.E.) who followed

Hippocrates (400 B.C.E.)) mentions rose water plus cold water on the chest

for heat fainting and hot musk vapors for cold fainting. One should

question the availability of rose water and/or musk to the average

Mediterranean family in the 4th century B.C. 



"Plants in the Bible", from _The Catholic Encyclopedia_, under 'Apple

tree,':

..bears a sweet fruit, the aroma (Cant., vii, 8) of which is used in the

East to revive a fainting person (cf. Cant., ii, 5).

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12149a.htm

"Cant." is Canticle of Canticles (Song of Songs), called Song of Solomon

in the R.S.V. Protestant bible. Chap 2, verse 5 says, "...refresh me with

apples for I am am sick with love." Vague, but maybe love sickness in a

hot country is known to include fainting.



As for the availability of apples, humans can't live without some sources

of vitamin C. The 'Apple tree' article continues:

"Apple groves flourished at an early date (Ramses II) in Egypt (Loret,

"Flore pharaonique", p. 83); place-names like Tappuah (Jos., xii, 17) or

Beth-tappuah (A. V., Jos., xv, 53) indicate that they were a distinct

feature of certain districts of Palestine."



My quick take is that any sweet smell, with apples being handy, plus cold

water during heat, would come close to the folk treatment of that time.

Pungent smells may work better, but many spices cost dearly in those days.



Sean

----------------------------------------------------------------

Ibrahim Chishti now operates a Unani web site at www.unani.com 

Much of the content seems to originate from G.M. Chishti's book.

----------------------------------------------------------------









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: meee@lokmail.com (me)

Date: 29 Aug 2001 12:17:52 -0700

--------

kategis@ivillage.com (kategis) wrote in message news:<734e698c.0108241425.7607e0a4@posting.google.com>...

> Does anyone know what would have been used as smelling salts in the

> ancient world, particularly in the Mediterranean region?



I don't know where I have this from, but I have got the notion that

smelling salts must have ammonia in them (smelling salts must wake a

comatose person up, not letting him/her smell nice odors, right ?).

And neither can I certify that this was used in the ancient world.

me





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: "Sally Pointer" <SallyPointer@btinternet.com>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:59:52 +0100

--------



"me" <meee@lokmail.com> wrote in message

news:5587700a.0108291117.77cdaf60@posting.google.com...

> kategis@ivillage.com (kategis) wrote in message

news:<734e698c.0108241425.7607e0a4@posting.google.com>...

> > Does anyone know what would have been used as smelling salts in the

> > ancient world, particularly in the Mediterranean region?

>

> I don't know where I have this from, but I have got the notion that

> smelling salts must have ammonia in them (smelling salts must wake a

> comatose person up, not letting him/her smell nice odors, right ?).

> And neither can I certify that this was used in the ancient world.

> me



Well, stale urine is seriously ammonia smelling, and that was most

definately used in the ancient world. What about giving her a whiff from one

of the amphora left on street corners by the fullers (the idea was that

passers by would relieve themselves and the fullers, dyers, tanners etc

would get the use of the valuable urine in the morning)

Sally









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: kategis@ivillage.com (kategis)

Date: 31 Aug 2001 04:57:43 -0700

--------

Wow.  Thanks for all the fantastic suggestions.  Clammy garments might

be quite useful at this juncture in the story, for certain. :)  I'll

pass on the urine.



Kategis





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ancient Smelling Salts

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:10:09 -0400 (EDT)

--------

me <meee@lokmail.com> wrote in message

news:5587700a.0108291117.77cdaf60@posting.google.com...

> I don't know where I have this from, but I have got the notion that

> smelling salts must have ammonia in them 

[...]

> And neither can I certify that this was used in the ancient world.



Stedman's Medical Dictionary (under "salt") states that smelling salts are

ammonium carbonate (old name "sal volatile") scented with aromatic oils

(lavender, nutmeg, etc.). Of course, the ancient world would not have had

the industrial chemical component.



>[...] (smelling salts must wake a comatose person up, not letting him/her

> smell nice odors, right ?).



Chishti (_Traditional Healer's Handbook_, 1991) claims that "In a serious

case of fainting, the person cannot open the eyes but will understand you

if you call his name. If the person cannot understand you or hear you,

that is apoplexy [stroke], not simple fainting, and needs immediate

medical help." Maybe too simplistic from the allopathic view, but seems

more or less true.



Simple fainting is a self-limited phenomenon, so any treatment within

reason will "work". That being the case, would you rather be aroused with

pleasant sensations or unpleasant ones?



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: just learning

From: sunmagick@hotmail.com (passionflower)

Date: 25 Aug 2001 19:47:52 -0700

--------

are there any good herb stores on the net where there would be books

and herb seeds-and anything else herbal!?





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: just learning

From: "yew" <nsyew@premier1.net>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:10:46 -0700

--------

"passionflower" wrote:

> are there any good herb stores on the

>net where there would be books and herb

>seeds-and anything else herbal!?



There are oodles and oodles.  Can you tell us a bit more about what you're

looking for and whereabouts you live?  That'll help folks give you advice

you might actually be able to *use*.  ;)



Brina









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: just learning

From: sunmagick@hotmail.com (passionflower)

Date: 26 Aug 2001 06:34:38 -0700

--------

i live in bangor, ME.-a great place for wildcrafting.  and i've got a

book on how to make salves, oils, etc.  just starting out i only have

access to a few herbs-some mints, thyme, rosemary, and lemon balm-and

they're not very big-i'm always trimming them and drying.  i just need

to know now what i can make from the herbs i have and whether to use

roots, or leaves to make what-and what they heal.

thank you!





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: just learning

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:49:45 +0100

--------

Wakefield, I'm curious to know how cold it gets down your way in winter... I

have most of these herbs in my garden - unsure whether to cover them over

winter  (only planted them this year).  If your temps are similar to ours,

seems I should cover the marjoram and rosemary.





"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:9mc75l$8lr$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

>    Bangor, eh? My sister is in Winterport, and I'm down in York Co.

>    My friends in WV used to make a comfrey salve with either roots or

> leaves. Comfrey grows well up here. So does Saint John's wort- it will

> spread very impressively. Thyme, mints, lemon balm, lavendar- all seem to

> winter over fairly well down my way. Marjoram is pretty tender. I can't

get

> rosemary to overwinter outside- but that's to be expected. Marshmallow

does

> OK. Horehound does fantastically well (let me know if you come up with a

> good way to get past the bitterness of that..)

> --

>











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: just learning

From: "Nightshade and Flat" <andersons@eatel.net>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:36:35 -0500

--------

I guess I'm a barbarian when it comes to herb gardening.  The first year, I

just plant 'em, weed & water 'em, but otherwise leave them be to see if they

survive.  When springtime comes, I know which ones are suited to the

climate.  I lived in Spencer, WV for two years, and had great luck with

three kinds of rosemary, hyssop, pennyroyal, lamb's ears, sweet woodruff,

oregano and Dittany of Crete, two kinds of thyme, wormwood (common and

Roman), fennel (bronze and green), nasturtium, five kinds of basil, and

three kinds of sage.  Basil is the only one that needed some attention, and

cilantro was a lost cause.  The fennel seemed to flourish near an uphill

wall, and the lamb's ears and wormwood did wonderfully in shady-to-sunny

parts near the house, but all the others were planted in a flat bed in my

backyard that remained in full sun for about half the day.  Apart from about

three casualties (cilantro/coriander, chives and fenugreek), everything did

really well.



I've also found that what are called "annuals" tend to reseed themselves.

They may appear to be dead, but suddenly, just as you're about to plant

something else in the same spot, they come back!  I had that experience with

sweet woodruff.  Within a month of being written off as a casualty, I had a

nice, spreading carpet.



Love & Laughter,

Nightshade



"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:9mdl51$oge$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

>    Rosemary has never survived for me. IF you had a very sheltered corner,

> mulched perfectly, and had the hardiest of varieties, you might succeed. I

> seem to have zones 4 and 5 here. I find plants from 3 and 4 are

> indestructible- but zone 5 is a maybe and zone 6 is difficult. rosemary

> seems to be zone 7. A few varieties claim zone 6. Marjoram is usually too

> tender for me. I can do Greek oregano easily and most of the thymes, and

> sage comes back tho it always looks dead to start. Lavendar is OK- at

least

> some varieties. I am trying arnica and clary sage this year, but I think I

> will chicken out on the clary and pot up most of it to bring inside.

>    We get -20, sometimes -30- for that matter we had that in West Virginia

> also but what seems to be the difference here is the permafrost (OK, so

it's

> not really permafrost, but the ground gets to be like iron and stays that

> way for SO LONG). Then you have to contend with what the snowcover does,

> wind dessication, sleet, etc. The pitch and relative altitude works into

the

> equation. What will do well in my uphill garden may croak in my downhill

> garden. It's lifelong learning.

>    Don't neglect your annuals. They are very worthwhile. I hope to get the

> jump on propogation and indoor starts but haven't got the technology down

> yet. You should find a lot of good greenhouses not too far from you. And

> 'Johnny's Selected Seeds' is in Maine (I think they have a website) and

> cater to this climate. Very rugged and good seedstock.

> --

>

> -- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

> refuses to stay between the lines when parking --

> "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:Zapi7.28632$_71.1883465@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

> > Wakefield, I'm curious to know how cold it gets down your way in

winter...

> I

> > have most of these herbs in my garden - unsure whether to cover them

over

> > winter  (only planted them this year).  If your temps are similar to

ours,

> > seems I should cover the marjoram and rosemary.

> >

> >

> > "Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

> > news:9mc75l$8lr$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

> > >    Bangor, eh? My sister is in Winterport, and I'm down in York Co.

> > >    My friends in WV used to make a comfrey salve with either roots or

> > > leaves. Comfrey grows well up here. So does Saint John's wort- it will

> > > spread very impressively. Thyme, mints, lemon balm, lavendar- all seem

> to

> > > winter over fairly well down my way. Marjoram is pretty tender. I

can't

> > get

> > > rosemary to overwinter outside- but that's to be expected. Marshmallow

> > does

> > > OK. Horehound does fantastically well (let me know if you come up with

a

> > > good way to get past the bitterness of that..)

> > > --

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: just learning

From: "yew" <nsyew@premier1.net>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:44:49 -0700

--------

"Nightshade and Flat" wrote:

> I've also found that what are called "annuals"

>tend to reseed themselves.  They may appear to

>be dead, but suddenly, just as you're about to

>plant something else in the same spot, they come

>back!  I had that experience with sweet woodruff.

>Within a month of being written off as a casualty,

>I had a nice, spreading carpet.



Actually, woodruff is a perennial--one of my big favorites.  It dies back to

the ground in the winter, but the roots are still very much alive (and can

even be frozen solid without harm) under the soil.  It's hardy to Zone 4.



Brina









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: just learning

From: "Deb" <debra@teleport.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:04:09 -0700

--------

Check out http://www.mountainroseherbs.com



They have herbs, teas, potions and lotions, seeds, books and all kinds

of gadgets and supplies for when you want to make your own

concoctions.



They mostly deal in organics.  If the quality isn't good, they won't

sell it.  They probably have Richo Cech's book 'Making Plant

Medicine', which I've found to be the most used on my shelves this

summer.  He is the owner of Horizon Herbs and Mountain Rose carries

his seeds.



I just got my new catalog.  The outside says "Lower prices!, Wider

selection!, More Organics.



My only connection with the company has been as a happy customer for

about 15 years.



Deb

--

(in Oregon, the pacific northWET)





passionflower <sunmagick@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:51133e81.0108251847.4ca75465@posting.google.com...

> are there any good herb stores on the net where there would be books

> and herb seeds-and anything else herbal!?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: Lorienne <reesearcher@yahoo.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 04:29:14 GMT

--------

My kitty was just diagnosed w/ Hyperthyroid, and w/ that often are

kidney and liver issues.



The vet has her on antibiotics for a lower UTI and now she has diarrhea.



Tomorrow they start her on meds for the hyperthyroid.



My poor kitty.  I want to help her, but I don't want to overwhelm her

system.



Does anyone here have any experience using alternative methods on their

cat? Herbs, supplements, special foods, etc.?



I know that herbs have done wonders for me, I just wonder if herbs could

help kitty thru her current digestive problems and her long-term

hyperthyroid issues.



I know that i keep acidophilis caps in the fridge for when I am taking

antibiotics, I wonder if a tiny does of that would help or hurt her.



I may search out a "holistic" vet in town on Monday, but in the meantime

I am afraid she is suffering from all these pills and now digestive

problems.



Thanks in advance for any advice.



Peace.



:)





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:25:12 -0400

--------

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 04:29:14 GMT, Lorienne <reesearcher@yahoo.com> wrote:



>My kitty was just diagnosed w/ Hyperthyroid, and w/ that often are

>kidney and liver issues.



What have you been feeding your cat? Has she had a raw meat diet, or a

grain based one?



Don <donwiss at panix.com>.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: Lorienne <reesearcher@yahoo.com>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:01:39 GMT

--------

Don Wiss wrote:

> 

> 

> What have you been feeding your cat? Has she had a raw meat diet, or a

> grain based one? 



Unfortunately, because I didn't know better until lately, I've been

feeding her commercial pet food: fancy feast soft, whiskas packets, and

Iams hard food.



She's 13 or 14 now, and I need to figure out how to ween her into a

healthier diet.  



The vet has her on Clavamox and Predisolone, and just yesterday started

her hyperthyroid meds.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:29:23 -0400

--------

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:01:39 GMT, Lorienne <reesearcher@yahoo.com> wrote:



>Don Wiss wrote:

>> 

>> What have you been feeding your cat? Has she had a raw meat diet, or a

>> grain based one? 

>

>Unfortunately, because I didn't know better until lately, I've been

>feeding her commercial pet food: fancy feast soft, whiskas packets, and

>Iams hard food.



If I had a cat, and if I didn't want to speed the money on raw meat, I'd

feed it canned meat. As pure meat as possible. I'd avoid products that list

grains, e.g. corn and rice. Certainly not what a cat evolved eating.



Not having a cat I don't know the ingredients of the foods you list.



Don <donwiss at panix.com>.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:48:05 -0500

--------

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:29:23 -0400, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

wrote:



>If I had a cat, and if I didn't want to speed the money on raw meat, I'd

>feed it canned meat. As pure meat as possible. I'd avoid products that list

>grains, e.g. corn and rice. Certainly not what a cat evolved eating.



That's what I always thought, but found that cats (and some other

carnivores) start eating their kills in the stomach area.  As most of

their kills are herbivores, they get a certain amount of grains in

their 'normal' wild state diets.  Surprized me.  



-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: "KateyKat" <kate@REMOVEwispsal.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:13:06 +0100

--------

Greets,



Lorienne said:

> She's 13 or 14 now, and I need to figure out how to ween her into a

> healthier diet.



Have a look at www.holisticat.com   or 'Rawcats' yahoo group.



U should find lotsa help there.



HTH

Kate, and the organic RawCats









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:53:14 -0500

--------

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 04:29:14 GMT, Lorienne <reesearcher@yahoo.com>

wrote:



>

>I may search out a "holistic" vet in town on Monday, but in the meantime

>I am afraid she is suffering from all these pills and now digestive

>problems.

>

While finding a holistic vet may be a very good thing, don't rush

anything.  Your cat is already trying to adjust to the meds she's got

now.  Seeing how she adjusts is probably your best bet.  Many of us

creatures have bad reactions to good meds at first and then level out

in a week or two (or, with luck, less time.).



Giving cats any human meds (even herbs or other alternative meds) is

not recommended without careful advice.  Some very mild human meds are

dangerous or deadly to other creatures, even in small doses.  Even if

someone tells you, "Yes, blah blah is good for xxxxx." don't go right

over and stuff your cat with blah blah . Research it a bit first and

get lots of opinions.



Good luck to your cat.  I've had them, lost them, still keep on having

them and loving them.

-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:41:07 -0400

--------

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:21:55 -0400, Wakefield <heretik@loa.com> wrote:



>  Humans and cats have been drinking milk for as long as the

>alliance between herd animals and humans has existed.



While it is true that humans have been drinking it since we started to herd

animals, this is but a speck in the time frame that our digestive systems

evolved over. But what evidence do you have that cats have been drinking it

that long? For one I though that cats were domesticated much more recently.



Don <donwiss at panix.com>.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: "Marigold" <LynnCaphidsBrown@mediaone.net>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:48:48 GMT

--------

Actually, since the antibiotics can deplete the body's natural intestinal

floral, thereby causing diarrhea, the yogurt is a pretty good idea.  I've

known several cats who liked yogurt, and one cat who demanded it whenever I

ate some.  As to cats eating grains - while it is not a good idea to try to

force a cat to become a vegetarian, most cats enjoy variety as much as we

do.  I've known cats who liked oranges, corn, peas, bananas, rice, yogurt,

raisins, broccoli baked potatoes, and peanut butter.

Marigold



"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:9mc6j2$85s$1@nntpsp2-ld.pvd.loa.net...

>    I do like your idea of the acidophilus- but maybe as a diluted yoghurt.

> If kitty seems to want it in small bits, it might be something that would

> help. But of course, donchaknow, there will almost surely be someone who

> thinks that milk is the devil's tool for cats. God knows they are down on

it

> for humans. Humans and cats have been drinking milk for as long as the

> alliance between herd animals and humans has existed.

> --

>

> -- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

> refuses to stay between the lines when parking --

> <cyli@tiny.net.invalid> wrote in message

> news:bhrioto6ri9q0nm6bgosnoehbqd7j50drn@4ax.com...

> > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 04:29:14 GMT, Lorienne <reesearcher@yahoo.com>

> > wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >I may search out a "holistic" vet in town on Monday, but in the

meantime

> > >I am afraid she is suffering from all these pills and now digestive

> > >problems.

> > >

> > While finding a holistic vet may be a very good thing, don't rush

> > anything.  Your cat is already trying to adjust to the meds she's got

> > now.  Seeing how she adjusts is probably your best bet.  Many of us

> > creatures have bad reactions to good meds at first and then level out

> > in a week or two (or, with luck, less time.).

> >

> > Giving cats any human meds (even herbs or other alternative meds) is

> > not recommended without careful advice.  Some very mild human meds are

> > dangerous or deadly to other creatures, even in small doses.  Even if

> > someone tells you, "Yes, blah blah is good for xxxxx." don't go right

> > over and stuff your cat with blah blah . Research it a bit first and

> > get lots of opinions.

> >

> > Good luck to your cat.  I've had them, lost them, still keep on having

> > them and loving them.

> > --

> > rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

> >

> > remove invalid or hit reply to email.

> > Though I'm very slow to respond.

> > http://www.visi.com/~cyli

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:03:36 -0500

--------

"Marigold" <LynnCaphidsBrown@mediaone.net> wrote



> Actually, since the antibiotics can deplete the body's natural intestinal

> floral, thereby causing diarrhea, the yogurt is a pretty good idea.  I've

> known several cats who liked yogurt, and one cat who demanded it whenever

I

> ate some.  As to cats eating grains - while it is not a good idea to try

to

> force a cat to become a vegetarian, most cats enjoy variety as much as we

> do.  I've known cats who liked oranges, corn, peas, bananas, rice, yogurt,

> raisins, broccoli baked potatoes, and peanut butter.

> Marigold



We have a cat who adores cantaloupe.  She will jump in your lap if you are

eating it and DEMAND that she have some.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for kitty cat?

From: amberapple@aol.com (Amberapple)

Date: 29 Aug 2001 01:56:07 GMT

--------

one of my cats not only loves yogurt, he is named after it! Stony; for

Stonyfield organic yogurt...he loved it when he was a kitten...



I tried to get my cats on a raw food diet but it was hard; they were too fussy

to make the switch. 







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Growing Herbs

From: "master splinter" <wanpipe@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:51:51 -0700

--------

Hi,



I would like to learn about growing and using herbs, specifically Sage and

Basil leaf.



Could someone direct me to a website containing the specified information?



thanks!









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing Herbs

From: "yew" <nsyew@premier1.net>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:14:51 -0700

--------

"master splinter" wrote:

> I would like to learn about growing and

>using herbs, specifically Sage and Basil leaf.



First, I think it's important to know what zone you're growing in.  Check

out this map (it takes a while to load if your connection's slow):

http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/ushzmap.html?  (include the question mark)



Learn your terms.  Check out the gardening glossary at Ed Hume Seeds:

http://www.humeseeds.com/glosary.htm



There are too many herb growing sites to count.  Gardenweb.com is a good

place to start.  They've got a great plant database at:

http://hortiplex.gardenweb.com/plants/.



The best book I can recommend is "The Herb Book" by John Lust.  It's a

small, affordable paperback with clear line drawings.  I picked mine up

years ago for $7 U.S.  It covers more common medicinal herbs than almost any

other book I've seen.  While it doesn't have a lot of growing info, it's

still a wonderful resource and will help you learn Latin names.



For great gardening advice, try:

rec.gardens.edible (newsgroup)

ALWAYS include your USDA zone when asking questions of this group.



Good luck!

Brina









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Chaste Berry for Premenstrual Syndrome; research in BMJ Jan 20 2001

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:49:25 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Chaste Berry was last mentioned in a.f.h two years ago (in the Google

Archives anyway), and there's been news since then.



Though accepted by folklore for relief of PMS, one web site suggested that

the scientific studies of Vitex agnus castus were not previously rigorous. 

Rigorous standards include a placebo controlled, double blind protocol,

where both the researchers and the clients don't know who is getting

active substance or placebo. Double blind protocol is often impossible

with whole herbs, but sometimes works well using capsule or tablet

extracts. 



Last January the British Medical Journal published rigorous research done

in Germany's community health clinics using dried Chaste Berry extract in

tablets. 170 women completed the study, over three menstrual cycles. The

dose was one 20 mg tablet once daily; standardized for casticin. "Fruit

extract ZE 440: 60% ethanol m/m, extract ratio 6-12:1;" (whatever that

means). They didn't claim that the casticin content was the only necessary

component, it was just the part that they held to a constant when blending

the extract.



Results of the research: 



"Agnus castus is effective in the treatment of the premenstrual syndrome.

.. Five of the six self assessment items indicated significant

superiority for agnus castus (irritability, mood alteration, anger,

headache, and breast fullness), other symptoms including bloating being

unaffected by treatment. ... The effects were confirmed by women's self

assessment and by the doctors' evaluation. Over half the women had a 50%

or greater improvement in their symptoms. Patient acceptance was high and

side effects were few and mild. ... other researchers have shown that

though the effects of treatment gradually decrease over time, they are

still felt for as long as three cycles after treatment." 



My questions:



Were tablets taken daily for nearly three months actually necessary for

the big improvement found? Is a daily dose a good practice when no

symptoms are present? How can one approximate 20mg casticin when using

dried herb? Are these tablets available commercially?; if so what do they

cost? What does the equivalent treatment with dried herb cost?



The full text of the research is on web at:



Treatment for the premenstrual syndrome with agnus castus fruit extract:

prospective, randomised, placebo controlled study

R Schellenberg

BMJ 2001; 322: 134-137.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7279/134?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&titleabstract=premenstrual&searchid=QID_NOT_SET&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=1/1/2001&tdate=2/28/2001

(If this link doesn't work search "premenstrual" from Jan 2001 - Feb 2001

at: http://www.bmj.com/all.shtml )





Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Original Hoxsey Cancer Formula Needed

From: "James" <jamesjc@pd.jaring.my>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:50:43 +0800

--------

Dear friends,



I've been searching for the Original "Harry Hoxsey Cancer Formula" on the

net but only managed to find an impersonated formula with 9 ingredients as

opposed to the original one which has 11 ingredients. Does anyone happen to

know where I can find the original formula with all 11 herbs including it's

measurements of use/herbal ratios and directions in lay English terms as

opposed to the scientific terms? I've seen it on the net some time ago but

don't have th URL for it. Any help is very much appreciated and thanks so

much in advance.



Sincerely,

JamesDear friends,



I've been searching for the Original "Harry Hoxsey Cancer Formula" on the

net but only managed to find an impersonated formula with 9 ingredients as

opposed to the original one which has 11 ingredients. Does anyone happen to

know where I can find the original formula with all 11 herbs including it's

measurements of use/herbal ratios and directions in lay English terms as

opposed to the scientific terms? I've seen it on the net some time ago but

don't have th URL for it. Any help is very much appreciated and thanks so

much in advance.



Sincerely,

James









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Original Hoxsey Cancer Formula Needed

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:36:34 +0300

--------

"James" <jamesjc@pd.jaring.my> wrote:



> I've been searching for the Original "Harry Hoxsey Cancer Formula" on the

> net but only managed to find an impersonated formula with 9 ingredients as

> opposed to the original one which has 11 ingredients. Does anyone happen to

> know where I can find the original formula with all 11 herbs including it's

> measurements of use/herbal ratios and directions in lay English terms as



The original formula is the Trifolium Compound. It's in King's dispensatory:

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic/kings/trifolium-prat.html



Cheers

Henriette (Do a search for "Trifolium compound" if you want more information.)



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: question about aloe

From: whome2222@aol.comnospam (Whome 2222)

Date: 27 Aug 2001 16:59:09 GMT

--------

hi i was wondering about making a cream or lotion from aloe myself but how do

you get the aloe out of the plant ?? can anyone help

open your mind you never know where it will take you





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: question about aloe

From: "whiteMemphis" <loom@alphalink.com.au>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:43:43 +1000

--------



"Whome 2222" <whome2222@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20010827125909.14627.00005029@mb-fo.aol.com...

> hi i was wondering about making a cream or lotion from aloe myself but how

do

> you get the aloe out of the plant ?? can anyone help

> open your mind you never know where it will take you



Don't know if you mean some sort of mechanical device, but couldn't you just

break the leaves, peel back the skin and scrape it out?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: vinegar and dieting

From: el21@aol.com (El21)

Date: 27 Aug 2001 23:29:46 GMT

--------

  I read somewhere that mixing apple cider vinegar and water would help me lose

weight. Does anyone have any experience using this method? What about those

vinegar pills I read about also, do they work?





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: vinegar and dieting

From: Alice From Hell <alicefromhell@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:58:37 GMT

--------

I think the basis behind that is in effect you're pickling your stomach, i.e.,

shrinking it.

I prefer the taste of pickle brine over apple cider vinegar, though.

Or is it supposed to do something else?



El21 wrote:



>   I read somewhere that mixing apple cider vinegar and water would help me lose

> weight. Does anyone have any experience using this method? What about those

> vinegar pills I read about also, do they work?



--

Im more than a bird, Im more than a plane

More than some pretty face beside a train

And its not easy to be me

{You can all sleep sound tonight

Im not crazy...or anything}

"Superman"

-Five for Fighting

_American Town_









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: vinegar and dieting

From: bilherbs@aol.com (Bilherbs)

Date: 28 Aug 2001 00:38:05 GMT

--------

> I read somewhere that mixing apple cider vinegar and water would help me

>lose

>weight. Does anyone have any experience using this method? What about those

>vinegar pills I read about also, do they work?



Can't tell you about pill, or humans for that matter but I do know that if you

give vinegar to animals they will eat a bit less. None of mine have lost any

weight tho.



Belinda









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: vinegar and dieting

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:44:06 -0400

--------

"El21" <el21@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010827192946.14579.00005218@mb-fo.aol.com...

>   I read somewhere that mixing apple cider vinegar and water would

> help me lose weight. Does anyone have any experience using this

> method? What about those vinegar pills I read about also, do they

> work?



The vinegar is somewhat diuretic.  An old folk remedy mixes a tablespoon

each of vinegar and honey in warm water.  It's a system cleanser.  It also

keeps the body acidic, which keeps it healthier.



Can't tell you about the pills.  I've never seen them.



Saskia

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: vinegar and dieting

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:59:19 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Saskia <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:

> [Vinegar and honey] also keeps the body acidic, which keeps it

> healthier.



Got a source on the acidic-healthier part?



Healthy human skin is slightly acid (to prevent yeast overgrowth), yet

IIRC, oral mucosa is slightly alkaline/base (to keep teeth from

dissolving). Normal urine is acid by day and alkaline by night to keep

both acid-fast and base-fast kinds of stones from forming.



This makes me think that acid-base is a third major conformation to keep

in homeostatic balance, like the hot-cold and wet-dry conformations.



Simon Mills (_Out of the Earth_, 1991) writes a section on "Eliminating

Acids" based on recent-century traditional healing. He states that from at

least the 19th century discovery that uric acid accumulation causes gout,

the British public became persistently convinced that 'acid' is a toxin.

"Arthritis is widely thought to be an indication for the reduction in the

consumption of 'acid foods'". Naturopathic lists residues from meat and

starch as the most acidic; residues from vegetables and fruits as the most

alkaline. Mills notes that while there is some evidence to support 'acid

toxin' theory, "... arthritis" (there are over 100 kinds) "is far more

complex a disorder than these ideas suggest."



Sean

---





Saskia <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:9mkcmi$l7f$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...

> "El21" <el21@aol.com> wrote in message

> news:20010827192946.14579.00005218@mb-fo.aol.com...

> >   I read somewhere that mixing apple cider vinegar and water would

> > help me lose weight. Does anyone have any experience using this

> > method? What about those vinegar pills I read about also, do they

> > work?

> 

> The vinegar is somewhat diuretic.  An old folk remedy mixes a tablespoon

> each of vinegar and honey in warm water.  It's a system cleanser.  It

> also keeps the body acidic, which keeps it healthier.

> 









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: vinegar and dieting

From: jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie)

Date: 30 Aug 2001 21:53:19 GMT

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:

> Saskia <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:

>> [Vinegar and honey] also keeps the body acidic, which keeps it

>> healthier.

> 

> Got a source on the acidic-healthier part?

> 

> Healthy human skin is slightly acid (to prevent yeast overgrowth), yet

> IIRC, oral mucosa is slightly alkaline/base (to keep teeth from

> dissolving). Normal urine is acid by day and alkaline by night to keep

> both acid-fast and base-fast kinds of stones from forming.



You see, the people who use that remedy have a magic vinegar valve

out one side of their stomachs into the blood stream, instead of going

through the whole digestive system like everyone else.  



They usually have the magic pure water valve out the other side of the

stomach, that makes pure water so much more healthy than water with a

little flavoring in it because their bodies "don't have to process it,"

while for the rest of us, water mixes with the food in the stomach so

it's no longer "pure" and is processed out just about last in digestive

system.



-- 

  jamie  (mjwm@austin.rr.com)



  		"There's a seeker born every minute."







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: "W Allen" <wnallen@rcn.com>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:02:25 -0400

--------

My son was accidently hit in the face with a golf club.  The cut is on his

lip and an area right above his lip (about 3/4 to 1 inch long).  It was a

deep cut ( it must have really hurt!) but he didn't get stitches.  He has

been using aloe gel, bacitracin, and tea tree oil on the cut and it is

healing nicely.  Anyone know what he can use on it to keep it from scarring?

Or would anything work better to heal it?  I appreciate any help.



Thanks

Nallen









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: baird@newstaff.com (Baird Stafford)

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:21:55 -0400

--------

W Allen <wnallen@rcn.com> wrote:



> My son was accidently hit in the face with a golf club.  The cut is on his

> lip and an area right above his lip (about 3/4 to 1 inch long).  It was a

> deep cut ( it must have really hurt!) but he didn't get stitches.  He has

> been using aloe gel, bacitracin, and tea tree oil on the cut and it is

> healing nicely.  Anyone know what he can use on it to keep it from

> scarring? Or would anything work better to heal it?  I appreciate any

> help.



Vitamin E both taken internally (but beware of massive doses over 2000

mg:  it's an excellent blood-thinner!) and applied externally might

help.



Blessed be,

Baird







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:11:56 -0400 (EDT)

--------

W Allen <wnallen@rcn.com> wrote in message

news:9mgf72$jl9$1@bob.news.rcn.net...

> My son was accidently hit in the face with a golf club.  The cut is on

> his lip and an area right above his lip (about 3/4 to 1 inch long).  It

> was a deep cut ( it must have really hurt!) but he didn't get stitches.

> He has been using aloe gel, bacitracin, and tea tree oil on the cut and

> it is healing nicely.  Anyone know what he can use on it to keep it from

> scarring? 

> Or would anything work better to heal it?  I appreciate any help.



Aloe is ok. Not sure about the tea tree oil, might be irritant. I couldn't

find the formula for Bacitracin, except it contains zinc. Zinc is a

co-nutrient that works with vit A, and A is known as a skin vitamin.



I would add Vitamin E to the treatment for sure. Speculatively, maybe add

vit A or A & D from opened oil caps, not the ointment. 



I think Neosporin claims on TV its use results in less scarring. (But I

suspect its triple antibiotic used on "every cut every time" is flirting

with antibiotic resistance.)



I recall that DMSO is mentioned in anti-scarring treatments, but I think

it does its best work in the first hours after the injury. Anyway, if you

haven't previously studied and used DMSO, I suggest that you don't use it.

That's mostly because one has to first debunk all the rumors that the FDA

started because they don't control it. BTW, finger cuts are a good place

to begin DMSO self-experiments, after reading a book on the subject.



"No scarring" is probably asking too much. At the least he will probably

have a little white line there, which might be treated with a medical

grade flesh-color tatoo. See this interesting post from alt.skincare

in thread on working/non-working scar treatments:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&selm=385051CF.75D132DA%40earthlink.net



Good luck,

Sean

(Not A Doc And I May Be Wrong  :)

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: leeco11@aol.com (LeeCo11)

Date: 30 Aug 2001 12:52:54 GMT

--------

>I think Neosporin claims on TV its use results in less scarring. (But I

>suspect its triple antibiotic used on "every cut every time" is flirting

>with antibiotic resistance.)



I have been told by dermatologists, surgeons and plastic surgeons NOT to use

Neosporin but rather use Polysporin.  They don't like Neosporin.

Lee





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: "whiteMemphis" <loom@alphalink.com.au>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:48:46 +1000

--------

Yes, I would recommend vitamin E cream or oil, rubbed on the wound, also

comfrey cream once the cut has healed.  If you want to try vitamin E cream,

make sure you get one that has the amount of vitamin stated on the label,

60iu/gm is a good amount. If you just buy a cream without the actual amount

being stated you'd probably be getting a uselessly small amount. good luck

with it.



"W Allen" <wnallen@rcn.com> wrote in message

news:9mgf72$jl9$1@bob.news.rcn.net...

> My son was accidently hit in the face with a golf club.  The cut is on his

> lip and an area right above his lip (about 3/4 to 1 inch long).  It was a

> deep cut ( it must have really hurt!) but he didn't get stitches.  He has

> been using aloe gel, bacitracin, and tea tree oil on the cut and it is

> healing nicely.  Anyone know what he can use on it to keep it from

scarring?

> Or would anything work better to heal it?  I appreciate any help.

>

> Thanks

> Nallen

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: manono <bush@nd.mountains>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:07:19 +1200

--------

calendula cream.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: "W Allen" <wnallen@rcn.com>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:21:43 -0400

--------

Thank you all for the helpful suggestions. Where do you get Helichrysum?  I

had forgotten about using vitamin E--that is usually a great healer, and I

had not heard of using honey, but that would be very handy. Lavender might

be  a problem since he is allergic to some flowers.  So far the cut is

healing up very nicely, and maybe he won't have much of a scar at all.

Thanks!



Nallen













"manono" <bush@nd.mountains> wrote in message

news:3B8D4B76.47339DDA@nd.mountains...

> calendula cream.

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: amberapple@aol.com (Amberapple)

Date: 29 Aug 2001 01:51:51 GMT

--------

I have had good luck with *small* cuts with lavender oil applied neat...







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: sinsualmagic@aol.com (SinsualMagic)

Date: 29 Aug 2001 04:59:59 GMT

--------

Actually, Honey. 

Honey has been used as a healing agent for centuries.It can be applied to

disinfect, and speed the healing process in wounds.



Honey acts as a antibacterial, antifungal and a anti inflamatory agent. Honey

contains hydrogen peroxide, so it aids in killing germs.Honey also promotes the

growth of healthy tissue. Promotes quicker healing & less scaring. 



I use it for cuts and scraps with me children. It works wonders on itchy bug

bites.



Hopes this helps. :) 



~Joy 





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What will help a cut heal with no scarring?

From: "M Kluga" <goonies@alphalink.com.au>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:32:31 +1000

--------

My lecturer tells me that Rose hip oil works very well on scars, as she uses

it to reduce scarring after having laser done on a portwine birthmark she

has.  Something to try.



Regards

MK











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: bust increase

From: schatz1@ptdprolog.net

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:57:30 GMT

--------

Is anyone still taking the herbs to increase your breast size? are they

working?







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Poke berries?

From: "countrywubba" <wubba@skywardinternet.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:52:26 -0400

--------

Is there any good use to be made out of poke berries , other than maybe as a

natural dye?  I've heard that some folks make jelly with the berries but

I've also heard that that is dicy as the berries can be poisonous or

hallucinogenic?



The area birds sure like them!  Can you say "purple gifts falling from the

sky"???  :o(



Wubba









---< This article was posted through www.newzpig.com >---





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Poke berries?

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:40:24 -0400

--------

"countrywubba" <wubba@skywardinternet.com> wrote in message

news:3b8d0d14_2@news.newzpig.com...

> Is there any good use to be made out of poke berries , other than

> maybe as a natural dye?  I've heard that some folks make jelly with

> the berries but I've also heard that that is dicy as the berries can be

> poisonous or hallucinogenic?



Use them for dye or ink...I wouldn't eat them.



The only safely edible part of them is the shoots in the spring.  Remember

that old Tony Joe White song called "Poke Salad Annie"?  The young leaves

can be cooked and eaten and are supposed to be very nutricious.



The root is supposed to be effective for shrinking cysts and tumors, but is

highly toxic, and I would only use it under the supervision of a

knowledgeable herbalist.



> The area birds sure like them!  Can you say "purple gifts falling from

> the sky"???  :o(



Yup...I know that one.  Last year I had a beautiful poke berry plant growing

in my yard, and had the most beautiful blue car with purple spots....  ;  )



Saskia



--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Poke berries?

From: Q Tip <temporaryaddy99@tds.net>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:50:36 -0400

--------

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:40:24 -0400, "Saskia" > wrote:



>The only safely edible part of them is the shoots in the spring.



Can be sliced and fried like okra...  Yum!

-- 

Q Tip





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Poke berries?

From: "countrywubba" <wubba@skywardinternet.com>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:32:43 -0400

--------



>    I did know one very weird person in WV who used to dry the ripe berries

> and use them for some obscure sort of treatment. They smelled SO nasty. I

> really didn't ask what she used them for, cuz it was the kind of thing I

> would have been there half a day listening to subjects covering my

lifetime

> and hers, international politics, and many little-known conspiracies..I

just

> quietly left and aired out my sinuses on the ride home..

~~~~~~~~`

You mean like an ol' "witchity" mountain woman with her mountain cures?



Gee that's what I LOVE to hear about.



Wubba

(but I understand having to listen ALL day to someone who doesn't know when

to be still)







---< This article was posted through www.newzpig.com >---





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Motivation and Forgetting bad memories

From: "Lee" <lee@emrcorp.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:57:47 GMT

--------

Are there any herbs (scented oils) that help with forgetting bad memories

and will help me become more aware of my surroundings and life situation to

help me get motivated?





--

Lee Lieske



http://www.lieske.com/5e.htm









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Motivation and Forgetting bad memories

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:42:08 +0300

--------

"Lee" <lee@emrcorp.com> wrote:



> Are there any herbs (scented oils) that help with forgetting bad memories



Try whitesage (Salvia apiana) for the bad memories. You can also try Salvia

officinalis for that, though I don't know just how effective that one would be.

Another scented sage that might help is Salvia sclarea, clary sage.



And a visit to your local flower therapist might be in order.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Motivation and Forgetting bad memories

From: "Lee" <lee@emrcorp.com>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:20:14 GMT

--------

"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:3b8f9395_2@news.cybertours.com...

>    My thought on this is that 'forgetting' per se will not happen- but

> integrating and healing, freeing yourself from obsessing about the bad

> memories or letting them dominate your present- that is what I would aim

> for.



"Bad memories" is probably the wrong term, "recurring useless thought" is a

more correct term.

While I'm focusing on these thoughts (which might have been from an event

that occured a long time ago) I'm focusing on the past too much and I stop

growing in the present. I stop living 'in the now'



Kind of like when going to school, I might be afraid I won't succeed, or

think about what other people may be thinking, or how much better they may

have it, or how much worse it could be, instead of focusing on what I'm

going to learn that day at school that day.  It's real obvious stuff, that

probably affects a lot of people, but while I'm worrying about these things,

I'm not worrying about other things (I don't see) which are more important.



I imagine that focusing too much on useless thoughts is an 'illness' that

affects a lot of people, whether they are from an event that occured a long

time ago, or recently just passed.  But some people have a worse time

dealing with it than others.





>    With the proper strength and attitude- and the proper healing- being

able

> to remember such can be quite useful. It can enable you to avoid whatever

> the pitfall was a second time; and allow you to teach others to avoid it

as

> well.

>    One thing that has helped me- and is helping me- is to continually give

> thanks that I am FREE of the harmful situation. It doesn't mean I don't

> remember- but that I can dance in celebration that it isn't going on any

> more.

>    I hope this will be relevant to you and that you will be able to

perform

> your own freedom dance.

>





Thanks. It's not that I don't understand that I am free from the situation,

or that the situation is irrelevant to my life, but sometimes I'll be trying

to go to sleep (which is when obsessiveness is my worst enemy) or

meditating, and one of these thoughts will come up and I'll obviate it as

soon as another comes up.  It's hard to explain, but it can become very hard

to control sometimes.  I know this is a situation I need to take care of on

my own, but I think herbs would definetely help.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Motivation and Forgetting bad memories

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:35:56 +0300

--------

"Lee" <lee@emrcorp.com> wrote:



> Thanks. It's not that I don't understand that I am free from the situation,

> or that the situation is irrelevant to my life, but sometimes I'll be trying

> to go to sleep (which is when obsessiveness is my worst enemy) or

> meditating, and one of these thoughts will come up and I'll obviate it as

> soon as another comes up.  It's hard to explain, but it can become very hard

> to control sometimes.  I know this is a situation I need to take care of on

> my own, but I think herbs would definetely help.



For that an excellent combo is Avena (milky seed stage) with Hypericum. Or,

alternatively, Eschscholtzia with Hypericum. These combos also help with

stress-related thoughts that chase around in your head, keeping sleep away.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Non-stimulant herbs for dieting

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:55:15 -0400

--------

About a month ago I asked if anyone knew of any good non-stimulant herbs for

dieting.  I had gained a lot of weight and was having blood sugar swings,

constantly stuffing my face, and desperately craving protein.



I think it was Henriette that mentioned that my liver needed "cooling" and

said to look into burdock and dandelion.



Well, it worked!  I found a great herbal combination at the co-op.  It's

Frontier brand and is one of the Rosemary Gladstar formulas.  It has

dandelion, burdock, nettles, oregon grape, milk thistle, wild yam, yellow

dock and schisandra.  I take one in the morning and one before bed.



The cravings and swings are gone.  I eat til my stomach just starts to feel

full.  And over the last 3 weeks I've dropped 8 pounds.



Thanks!



Saskia

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Coriander seeds

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:43:22 +0100

--------

Have a coriander plant which has 'bolted' and produced a ton of seeds.   How

would I dry them to preserve for the winter - anyone know?  Can't find any

info after 20 mins of searching - maybe its actually a spice not a herb?













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Coriander seeds

From: manono <bush@nd.mountains>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:02:09 +1200

--------





bryher wrote:



> Have a coriander plant which has 'bolted' and produced a ton of seeds.   How

> would I dry them to preserve for the winter - anyone know?  Can't find any

> info after 20 mins of searching - maybe its actually a spice not a herb?



try just squeezing them off the plant onto newspaper, spread them out nd dry

slowly in the sun.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Coriander seeds

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:55:37 +0100

--------

Summer has come & gone here in rainy England.   Guess I can do the same

thing indoors....just will take longer?







"manono" <bush@nd.mountains> wrote in message

news:3B8E8DB1.A715A245@nd.mountains...

>

> try just squeezing them off the plant onto newspaper, spread them out nd

dry

> slowly in the sun.

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Tumeric

From: Laura Bauer <laubau@qwest.net>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:27:03 -0600

--------

Hello all - Just found this website and wanted to ask a

question.

I am allergic to anti-inflammatories in all forms, orally,

topically and intraveneously. Lucky me - I have problem with

inflammation in my body and no way to control it. I recently

saw on a fibromyalgia newsgroup that some people were using

tumeric to help with inflammation.

Is tumeric a natural anti-inflammatory? What is a dose to

take? Can you take too much? Do you need to judge how much

you take based on your weight?

Some people were taking 1/8 tsp per day while others were

taking 1 tsp per day. Some are mixing it with milk - others

mix it with ketchup and eat with a cracker. I tried mixing

it in mayonnaise and putting it on a sandwich - won't do

that again.

My hubby says I should buy some gel capsules and put it in

there.

Any ideas or suggestions on how I can deal with my

inflammation problem naturally would be greatly appreciated.



Thank you in advance

laubau







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Tumeric

From: Alan Pollock <nexus@king.cts.com>

Date: 31 Aug 2001 15:17:42 GMT

--------

Turmeric is a non-steriodal anti-inflammatory. Nex





Laura Bauer <laubau@qwest.net> wrote:

> I am allergic to anti-inflammatories in all forms, orally,





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Tumeric

From: N`osal Woodbender <nosalwoodbender@home.com>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:48:32 GMT

--------





Laura Bauer wrote:



> Hello all - Just found this website and wanted to ask a

> question.

> I am allergic to anti-inflammatories in all forms, orally,

> topically and intraveneously. Lucky me - I have problem with

> inflammation in my body and no way to control it. I recently

> saw on a fibromyalgia newsgroup that some people were using

> tumeric to help with inflammation.

> Is tumeric a natural anti-inflammatory? What is a dose to

> take? Can you take too much? Do you need to judge how much

> you take based on your weight?

> Some people were taking 1/8 tsp per day while others were

> taking 1 tsp per day. Some are mixing it with milk - others

> mix it with ketchup and eat with a cracker. I tried mixing

> it in mayonnaise and putting it on a sandwich - won't do

> that again.



    Dosage will vary. I have fibromyalgia, and used turmeric for a time.

It is one of the ingredients in curry. I still use it in soups and rice

dishes.

    Because of the strong flavor, and the amount that is necessary to

take. I used gel caps. I was taking up to 3 caps, twice a day. The only

problem with it is you develop a resistance to it over time. The only

bad side effect that I know of  is diarrhea. I had heard that from the

herbalist at the apothecary I do busy with. I increased my dosage until

I had that symptom, then backed off. The problem with use with

fibromyalgia, is it is not a inflammatory condition for the most part.

It did help me with some of the pain for awhile though.



>

> My hubby says I should buy some gel capsules and put it in

> there.

> Any ideas or suggestions on how I can deal with my

> inflammation problem naturally would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you in advance

> laubau



--

     Ya'at'eeh, Greg

    Breaking things since 1956

    http://members.home.net/nosalwoodbender









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Tumeric

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:56:00 +0100

--------

Some interesting info I came across about Tumeric:



Turmeric has many medical actions including anti- inflammatory properties

that would alleviate the pain of arthritis. The key active ingredient in

this spice is curcumin, which also gives turmeric its distinctive yellow

colour and which has been shown to be a potent antioxidant.



Turmeric contains between 0.3 and 5.4% curcumin, which is said to work as

well as the steroid cortisone in relieving acute inflammation. It works only

half as well as conventional treatments when the condition is chronic, but,

unlike many of the orthodox treatments, at the recommended safe dosages

(400-600mg, three times a day) it has no toxicity.



Curcumin works by depleting the nerve endings of substance P, a

neurotransmitter that carries pain signals around the body. Curcumin also

works in the body to stabilise cell membranes and thereby prevent the

release of inflammatory agents.









"Laura Bauer" <laubau@qwest.net> wrote in message

news:3B8F5866.514D59E8@qwest.net...

> Hello all - Just found this website and wanted to ask a

> question.

> I am allergic to anti-inflammatories in all forms, orally,

> topically and intraveneously. Lucky me - I have problem with

> inflammation in my body and no way to control it. I recently

> saw on a fibromyalgia newsgroup that some people were using

> tumeric to help with inflammation.

> Is tumeric a natural anti-inflammatory? What is a dose to

> take? Can you take too much? Do you need to judge how much

> you take based on your weight?

> Some people were taking 1/8 tsp per day while others were

> taking 1 tsp per day. Some are mixing it with milk - others

> mix it with ketchup and eat with a cracker. I tried mixing

> it in mayonnaise and putting it on a sandwich - won't do

> that again.

> My hubby says I should buy some gel capsules and put it in

> there.

> Any ideas or suggestions on how I can deal with my

> inflammation problem naturally would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you in advance

> laubau

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Scented oils

From: "Lee" <lee@emrcorp.com>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:23:21 GMT

--------

What are the best brands for scented oils?



I've tried Young Living's oil blends, which smelled a lot better than

anything else I've tried, but they're kind of expensive.  What's the

cheapest brand, with the widest selection, that's the highest qualtiy?



Lee Lieske









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Basal cell carcinoma

From: "Robert Linde" <SmallShipCruises@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:37:39 GMT

--------

Mom had a biopsy and came back as basal cell carci. of course she is persuing

western treatment for removal. At my suggestion she has also gone to

acupuncturist. He prescribed Jiao Gu Lan (gynostemma Pentaphyllum) I can't find

any reference at all for this. Doc said it was a new anti cancer combo

Also love to hear any other suggestions folks have.

In general:

72 y/o good health, lifelong sinus/allergy problems, Macular degeneration (less

severe type dry?), bp 120/70, tongue is red, moist, except tip which is dry, pulse

is slightly rapid, full except kidney which is weak. thats all I can think of.



Just thought I'd come out of lurking for this one...

Bob









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: 5-HTP is a herb !

From: fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:33:48 GMT

--------

Ok, so for the folks that were bitching at me for posting my

apparently "off topic" 5-HTP discussion in alt.folklore.herbs, I'll

just have you folks know that 5-HTP is often injested in the form of

an African herb (Griffonia simplicifolia).







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: 5-HTP is a herb !

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:47:34 +0300

--------

fraggle <fraggle@poboxes.com> wrote:



> Ok, so for the folks that were bitching at me for posting my

> apparently "off topic" 5-HTP discussion in alt.folklore.herbs, I'll

> just have you folks know that 5-HTP is often injested in the form of

> an African herb (Griffonia simplicifolia).



If that's the case, why not call it Griffonia instead of 5-HTP? Perhaps because

you're not actually talking about an herb, but about a single constituent? 



Single constituents are in fact is _not_ the same as whole herbs.



Henriette 



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



