

==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: concentration

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 1 Nov 2001 00:08:30 GMT

--------



> and while we are kind of on the subject, is there any sort of mellowing

> effect I could achieve that would possibly put me into a musical state?

> It would be best if these were not illegal drugs, non-addictive, etc..



What's a "musical state"?  Listening or playing?



As far as I know there is exactly one herb which has been shown to

improve the accuracy of musical perception: marijuana.  This was

years ago and I don't have the reference.  In itself it doesn't do

a damn thing to improve musical performance skills, though - you

make the same mistakes but notice them more clearly (which can be

helpful in the long run, but not directly while you're making them).



This isn't really a "mellowing" effect, though.



There is something called voacanga (see my website for its botanical

classification) which is used in West Africa to improve drummers'

performance.  No idea how it works.  As far as I know it's legal

everywhere, if you can get it, but I expect that would change if some

regime like the US discovered it worked.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: concentration

From: "K Shelton" <karen@altnature.com>

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:41:12 -0600

--------

Gotu Kola is my choice to, I have used it when pacing the floor with

writer's block on several occasions and it helps.

For musical mellowing you might want to try kava kava. Tincture is better

than capsules. The most effective method of using is chewing the actual root

but this does not suit everyone's taste.



Karen Shelton

Alternative Nature Herbal and Online Photo Gallery

Amazing Jewelweed Soap for Poison Ivy

http://altnature.com



"Alan Pollock" <nexus@king.cts.com> wrote in message

news:3bdf994a$0$24763$e2e8da3@nntp.cts.com...

>

> Gotu Kola (Centella Asiatica) works wonders for me. About 800 mg raw herb

in

> caps does it for me. I prefer it to Ginkgo because it's Not an upper in my

> system, which Ginkgo, Coffee and all manner of concentration aids are.

Gotu's

> mild but effective. Could possibly help you with your musical mood too.

Nex

>

>

> Nate Petreman <petreman@siscom.net> wrote:

> > My friend wanted me to ask the group if there is any sort of herb that

will

> > help with concentration.  he used to be able to sit around and work with

his

> etc









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: concentration

From: mmankows_nospam@directvinternet.com (Marcin Mankowski)

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 02:13:48 GMT

--------

On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:50:25 -0500, "Nate Petreman" <petreman@siscom.net> wrote:



>My friend wanted me to ask the group if there is any sort of herb that will

>help with concentration.  he used to be able to sit around and work with his

>electronics for 5-8 hours at a time (with average breaks to eat, strech,

>etc...) however, now he cannot concentrate.



This her is tobacco.



>and while we are kind of on the subject, is there any sort of mellowing

>effect I could achieve that would possibly put me into a musical state?  It

>would be best if these were not illegal drugs, non-addictive, etc..



Smoke pipe (do not inhale) and the chances are you will not be much addicted

if at all.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: concentration

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 10 Nov 2001 13:21:17 GMT

--------



> Try Ginko biloba - It is from the oldest tree in history 



This strikes me as a rather strange reason to take it.



Do you swallow lumps of Lewisian gneiss along with it?



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Salvia

From: g-nome <mpcato@lafn.org>

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:11:24 -0800

--------

I'm glad some of you were talking about Salvia Divnorum.

I have found it to be quite enlightening. I would like to 

hear from some of you about your experiences with it.

I must say that used for a vision quest, it beats anything

I have tried to date. Such as Amanita M. 

Short term visions. No nasty side effects. No poisonous alkaloids that I

know of. I really would like to hear, either pro or con, about it.

It seems too good to be so non problematical. I really

wouldn't mind hearing from someone on the negative side effects.





   Michael.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Salvia

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 02:02:16 -0500

--------



"g-nome" <mpcato@lafn.org> wrote in message

news:3BE0BD5C.68EEF169@lafn.org...

[snip]

>I really would like to hear, either pro or con, about it.

> It seems too good to be so non problematical. I really

> wouldn't mind hearing from someone on the negative side effects.



I still haven't had the opportunity to try it, so I couldn't tell you

anything about its effects firsthand.  However, there's a great site called

the Erowid Experience Vaults.  Here's the page for salvia divinorum:



http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp_list.shtml#S



I like their site because it give the good side, the bad side, the health

aspects, and good general information on the herb.



Saskia

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.asthma

Subject: Re: two-tone skin color on face

From: g-nome <mpcato@lafn.org>

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:50:21 -0800

--------

Paul P. Thomas,

Realizing that this is a group devoted to herbal forms of

healing, I have a question. Have you consulted a Physician?

I am an Herbalist to a degree, but once past that which can

helped by Herbology, I tend to consult a Physician.

This is coming from a Wounded Healer. When the symptoms are 

as complex as I have read from you, my next resort would to

try to rule out liver dysfunction. I understand the concepts of a "hot

or cold" liver. I also have a sister that is dying of Hepatitis C. For

her, I believe that herbs may treat the symptom, but it will not be a

cure. 

After ruling out liver dysfunction, yes, go for an herbal or homeopathic

healing. Jaundice is nothing to fool around with.

I have emphysema and cystic lung disease. I have tried to 

deal with it herbaly and I still have had to have two 

pneumothoracotomies to remove cystic blebs from my lungs, seventeen

years ago.

Sometimes herbs and homeopathic remedies can be a cure.

Sometimes not. Without the years of training that a surgeon

must go through, I would be "really" dead. 

Don't let this turn you off to homeopathic ways of dealing with

illnesses. I still try to use the least invasive

methods available when I can.

Just a comment from my particular point of view.





   Michael.





> Hello all,

> I have severe asthma and seasonal allergies and have a question.

> 

> Has anyone experienced a jaundice-like, yellow skin color around the eyes

> and extending down across the cheeks? The color of my face is a healthy

> pink-like color except for the areas noted above. I observe this

> year-round, meaning it isn't caused by my seasonal allergies.

> 

> Any help is appreciated!

> 

> Paul





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,alt.support.asthma

Subject: Re: two-tone skin color on face

From: Steven Litvintchouk <sdlitvin@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 05:36:33 GMT

--------





"Paul P. Thomas" wrote:

> 

> Hello all,

> I have severe asthma and seasonal allergies and have a question.

> 

> Has anyone experienced a jaundice-like, yellow skin color around the eyes

> and extending down across the cheeks?



When you say "around the eyes," do you mean that the whites of your eyes

have turned yellow themselves?



If so, that's a sign of true jaundice.  You need to see your doctor.



(I once took an excess amount of beta-carotene supplement, unaware of

the risk.  And over a period of months, my skin started to turn yellow

from the beta-carotene.  But the whites of my eyes remained white.)





-- 

Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Email:  sdlitvin@earthlink.net    



9-11.

Answer the call!





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: good mail order dry herbs

From: "K Shelton" <karen@altnature.com>

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:42:16 -0600

--------

I like Monterey Bay real well. HUGE selection.

www.herbco.com



Karen Shelton

Alternative Nature Herbal and Online Photo Gallery

Amazing Jewelweed Soap for Poison Ivy

http://altnature.com



"Paul Maser" <paul@maser.net> wrote in message

news:9rf0c7024ni@enews3.newsguy.com...

> www.pennherb.com has a nice selection and a good online ordering system.

> www.libertynatural.com carries about twenty dried herbs, but has a lot of

> extracts.

> Starwest Botanicals is rated highly by a friend:

> http://www.starwest-botanicals.com

> I also like Frontier Natural Products:

> http://www.frontierherb.com/

> Paul

> "passionflower" <sunmagick@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:51133e81.0110241400.6d9fe0e0@posting.google.com...

> > hi everyone-does anyone know of an good mailorder herb companies?

> > i've heard that you can't trust all of them, and that some come filled

> > w/bugs and aren't good at all.  and, are there any that sell small

> > amounts of herbs, around 4 oz. so that i can experiment w/them before

> > i decide to get more?

> > thanks a lot,

> > rebecca jean

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: good mail order dry herbs

From: "P4X4QT" <pbishop@iland.net>

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:09:15 -0600

--------

I buy all of my herbs from penn herb they even sell them in 1 oz  packages.

I have never had any problems with them.  Recently, I went to a local place

to buy some red clover and upon opening the package I noticed I was give an

extra additive, namely sheep pellets.  I was not very happy, so I doubt I

stray again from Penn Herb.





"Paul Maser" <paul@maser.net> wrote in message

news:9rf0c7024ni@enews3.newsguy.com...

> www.pennherb.com has a nice selection and a good online ordering system.

> www.libertynatural.com carries about twenty dried herbs, but has a lot of

> extracts.

> Starwest Botanicals is rated highly by a friend:

> http://www.starwest-botanicals.com

> I also like Frontier Natural Products:

> http://www.frontierherb.com/

> Paul

> "passionflower" <sunmagick@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:51133e81.0110241400.6d9fe0e0@posting.google.com...

> > hi everyone-does anyone know of an good mailorder herb companies?

> > i've heard that you can't trust all of them, and that some come filled

> > w/bugs and aren't good at all.  and, are there any that sell small

> > amounts of herbs, around 4 oz. so that i can experiment w/them before

> > i decide to get more?

> > thanks a lot,

> > rebecca jean

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic and Anthrax

From: bingo@rosenet.net (Gene & Jayne Freadman)

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:38:01 -0800

--------

Garlic may not be the answer for everything but I've used it for

everything from congestion, to garlic juice in  viniger and alchol for ear

infection, to removeing a growth on my temple that I was afraid to go to

the Dr. with.



I take a spoon full of raw galic about four times a week. I chase it with

a cup of hot chocolate to help it go down.

 

Why would you have to take such a huge amount of garlic as apposed to a

little pill?





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic and Anthrax

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 05:54:17 -0700

--------

Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net> wrote:





>>>sores. IT IS SAID TO PREVENT ANTHRAX IN CATTLE, 

>>>BEING LARGELY USED FOR THE PURPOSE. 

>>

>>  It is SAID does NOT MEAN it is proved (emphasis mine).

>

>Yes, Tsh, I never said that.  I was simply quoting "A Modern Herbal."

>These were quotes, capish?



  And how modern is this Herbal?





>But what I was saying was that garlic can be very effective against

>many antibiotic-resistant bacteria, because I have used it for that

>purpose  when modern antibiotics not only failed me but nearly killed

>me in the process.   (You clearly stated garlic had only minor

>antibiotic properties.)



  It does, and works best if directly applied ... crushed garlic

poultices, for example, can be used for wound infections (in the

absence of better remedies).



>Also, if you want to find out where the references I typed in

>originated, YOU look them up.



  Basic rule of newsgroups (and term papers) ... he who cites has

to provide the sources. 



>>>In olden days, Garlic was employed as a specific for 

>>>leprosy. IT WAS ALSO BELIEVED THAT IT HAD MOST 

>>>BENEFICIAL RESULTS IN CASES OF SMALLP

>>

>>  It WAS BELIEVED does NOT MEAN it is proved (emphasis mine).

>

>See above again as you keep trying to put words into my mouth.



  By citing, and adding your own emphasis, you imply that you

agree with this.  Belief does not equal proof, nor soes saying

equal proving.  Garlic has been investigated over the years as an

antibiotic, but hasn't made it out of the lab yet, for reasons I

do not remember reading about.  Many substances prove to be too

unstable for commercial use, have intolerable side effects, etc. 





>As an additional note here, Smallpox is not a bacteria.  It is a

>virus.  And antibiotics are ineffective against viruses.



  Most deaths from smallpox are from the resulting dehydration

and secondary infections ... manage these and the survival rate

improves considerably. 











Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic and Anthrax

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.***>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 17:32:10 -0800

--------

Linda N wrote:



> On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:41:44 -0800, taschlauch

> (snip)

> >You have to watch what you post about this stuff , some one could read it and

> >think they could take it for a anthrax treatment , and treat the whole family

> >with it. Most of us know better , but some may not know as much about it as us.

>

> GIVE ME A BREAK!!  John Q Public is usually a lot smarter than most

> people give him credit for.  If anyone is reading into this discussion

> that any of us are saying just take garlic for anthrax, then maybe

> they had better go back to grade school and learn some basic reading

> skills.

>

> >Is there any truth a statement I read that "garlic is an antibiotic for

> >anthrax" and  does garlic have any antibiotic characteristics?

> >

> >Herbs can do wonders when some one that knows what they are doing uses them ,

> >but should never be used when it comes to life and death treatments. If some

> >one can't get to treatment for what ever reason , then the right herbs could

> >save their life til they can. But this is not the case almost always , this

> >should always be pointed out when posting about life and death treatments of

> >any kind. It only take one person to miss under stand , and have lose of life

> >because of it. Sorry but I felt I had to point this out , we can never be sure

> >who will read this and what they could make of it.

>

> See above again.

>

> However, in a totally other vein, (NOT talking about Anthrax anymore),

> sometimes it is the allopathic treatment that is killing you and

> turning what should be a simple situation into a life threatening one

> and then having nothing in standard medical care to help save your

> life.

>

> Years ago I landed in the ER with life threatening pancreatitis from

> the overuse of antibioitics by doctors for an ear infection.  Talk

> about stupidity.  Doctors know that many of the bacteria that cause

> ear infections have now become antibiotic resistant, yet because they

> know of nothing else to do, when the infection won't clear up, they

> just keep on giving broad spectrum antibiotic after broad spectrum

> antibiotic in desperation (The same thing many doctors do with toxic

> chemotherapy by the way.)

>

> And they kept telling me to keep taking these antibiotics "OR ELSE"

> Well I had to find out what their "or else" was the hard way....by

> landing in the hospital with life-threatening pancreatitis. And even

> then standard medicine has little to offer for pancreatitis.  Finally

> I left the ER and ended up treating myself with herbs, glandulars, and

> tons of acidophillus. And I have treated every ear infection since

> then with herbs and they worked just fine.

>

> (And NO I would not treat Antrax with just herbs, in case Tsh or

> someone else wants to puts words in my mouth again...however

> antibiotics are so bad for me now, who knows what might kill ME first,

> the anthrax or the antibiotics)

>

> Nothing is ever that black or white. Standard drug treatments can be

> miraculously life saving....and they can be just as dangerously

> deadly, even in the hands of Physicians supposedly trained in their

> use.

>

> I just hope we don't over panic about this Anthrax thing and over use

> the antibiotics because of public panic and then as a consequence not

> have them be effective for those truly exposed and who really need

> them.  In my state there was a news story last week, about a physician

> writing a prescription for himself for a year's supply of Cipro.

>

> Holy jumping Jehesefat!!  It appears even physicians can act like

> jerks in a terrorist situation. Luckly the state Health Board stated

> that they would be looking into any overuse and misuse of Cirpo, but

> they also stated that ultimately they could not stop any physician

> with a license to write any prescription he saw fit for any amount he

> saw fit.

>

> Talk about the fox watching the hen house.   AMA stupidity at is

> finest.

>

> Since several other antibiotics also kill anthrax , we should be saving

> Cipro for when perhaps anthrax has become resistant to ampicillin and

> the docycyclines anyway. The government is trying to educate doctors

> about using these other antibiotics first, but again, doctors are

> allowed to prescribe what they want in the amounts they want most of

> the time with impunity anyway.

>

> Linda N



Hi Linda N !!!



GIVE ME A BREAK!!  John Q Public is usually a lot smarter than most people give him

credit for.



I'm not thinking of John Q Public when I posted , I'm talking about that dumb butt

that should have knew better but didn't. And your disclaimer was just fine, for John

Q Public to under stand it. But some times you have to stop and think , about the

dumb person that is looking for a reason to do dumb stuff. Just look at what the

post was asking to start with............



(((((" GARLIC IS AN ANTIBIOTIC FOR ANTHRAX ")))))  he said ((((  I read that )))) in

his post.



First off if even millions of people needed antibiotics for anthrax , the gov't

would get them and fly them in within 24 hours. They only need to start treatment on

them , then find more to give them. like a one week worth for everyone , will give

the gov't a week to get the rest. We are not going to run out , how many cities and

how many drug stores is in the US. So if the gov't don't have all that is needed ,

the drug stores will have them. There is many other antibiotics that will work just

fine to , so that will not be a problem. The only problem I see that could happen is

, people may not know they have it until they go to get help for it. So the real

problem at hand is , preventing it and knowing you are around it if you ever are.



And no doctor would turn anyone away if they think they was around it , and was able

to tell them why they think they was. They would do some test first , but they would

get treatment if they even think they could have been around it. Picking a few

people off like sitting ducks , will be the most likely way anthrax will be used by

them that are doing it. Why because it works way better for what they want , and

they will keep it up until they are found and stopped. And it will keep the gov't

busy til they can find away , to kill 1000's of people with something else they come

up with.



T.A.S.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic and Anthrax

From: sax50man@aol.com (OldBluesman)

Date: 02 Nov 2001 05:00:05 GMT

--------

Hey folks.  Its me again.  The only reason why I asked the question  originally

is due to an article I read at the following url.



http://www.mistral.co.uk/garlic/antibiotic.htm



Is this a reputable source?





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic and Anthrax

From: yomousey@aol.com (YoMousey)

Date: 02 Nov 2001 07:36:02 GMT

--------

> Linda N linda_n@worldnet.att.net 

wrote:

>Yes I know!!! And if we keep over using antibiotics we might find

>ourselves in a post anti-biotic era,  where antibiotics are mostly

>useless and we will really be in trouble.



They've been saying this for 30 years.



Tony









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Fuggy headedness

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:14:53 -0000

--------

I tend to get fuggy headedness  during the day. A good walk outside works

temporarily but when I am back indoors working it comes back. I figure alot

is to do with sleeping times and cleaner foods which I am working on...



After a small experiment with coffee (which I have never ever drunk

beforehand) I found this cleared my head good n proper, but I am wel aware

of this not being the best thing. Any suggestions for a more gentle

replacement. Im happy drinking herbal tea, not so keen on supplements as

that kives my tired kidneys something else to chemically break down - but

willing to give stuff a shot .



Sue











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Fuggy headedness

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 05:57:02 -0700

--------

"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:



>I tend to get fuggy headedness  during the day. A good walk outside works

>temporarily but when I am back indoors working it comes back. 



  Indoor air pollution is a strong possibility  Any aromatherapy

candles, sacred incense, long-lasting room scenting devices in

the environment?  If so, get rid of them and see if it helps.







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Fuggy headedness

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 01:56:26 -0500

--------



"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:%L7E7.48894$a14.5771864@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

[snip]

> After a small experiment with coffee (which I have never ever drunk

> beforehand) I found this cleared my head good n proper, but I am wel aware

> of this not being the best thing. Any suggestions for a more gentle

> replacement. Im happy drinking herbal tea, not so keen on supplements as

> that kives my tired kidneys something else to chemically break down - but

> willing to give stuff a shot .



I know the fuggy feeling well, Sue.  Every so often I have a small amount of

coffee to clear my head.  I usually drink about 3 swallows and that's enough

to do it.  And I don't worry about it being unhealthy because it's such a

small amount.



I also find that if I eat carbohydrates - like hash browns for breakfast - I

want to go right to sleep.  If I mix a fair amount of protein with it - like

1 egg - I don't get that fuggy feeling.  The best mix for me is protein like

chicken or fish and fresh or frozen veggies.



Saskia

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Fuggy headedness

From: hherbalone@aol.com (HHerbalOne)

Date: 11 Nov 2001 12:45:51 GMT

--------

>From: "Sue Green" sue.green1@ntlworld.com 



> (Snipped) I tend to get fuggy headedness  during the day. A good walk outside

works

>temporarily but when I am back indoors working it comes back. 



It could be that the exercise is helping or the getting outside is helping.



It could be that the exercise is balancing sugar/insulin in the blood and/or

increasing circulation.  Try exercising indoors as soon as you feel the

fogginess to find out if it is just being outside or it's the exercise that is

doing the trick.



It could be that you are allergic to something inside-cleaners, pesticides,

pets... See if just sitting outside without the exercise brings relief.



Since you did say it comes back as soon as you come back inside, it does seem

to point to air pollution of some kind to which you are allergic.  Make sure it

isn't carbon monoxide poisoning if you have gas heat.



HH









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Garlic?

From: "Alan" <Aldray@bigfoot.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 16:02:07 GMT

--------

My mother has a heart condition. It has been suggested that she eat a clove

of garlic every day. This might sound dumb, but can she just swallow it

whole with the same effect as chewing it? She would rather swallow it whole,

but someone has told her it does not have the same effect - which sounds odd

to me as I thought the stomache acids would work just the same?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic?

From: bilherbs@aol.com (Bilherbs)

Date: 01 Nov 2001 19:26:35 GMT

--------

>My mother has a heart condition. It has been suggested that she eat a clove

>of garlic every day. This might sound dumb, but can she just swallow it

>whole with the same effect as chewing it? She would rather swallow it whole,

>but someone has told her it does not have the same effect - which sounds odd

>to me as I thought the stomache acids would work just the same?

>

Swallow it whole, chewing sounds like somebody is trying to punish your mother!



Belinda









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic?

From: "iam me" <budhaboy@email.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 01:47:49 GMT

--------



"Alan" <Aldray@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3meE7.4812$5e2.647468@news1.telusplanet.net...

> My mother has a heart condition. It has been suggested that she eat a

clove

> of garlic every day. This might sound dumb, but can she just swallow it

> whole with the same effect as chewing it? She would rather swallow it

whole,

> but someone has told her it does not have the same effect - which sounds

odd

> to me as I thought the stomache acids would work just the same?

>



Mix it in with dinner.... One clove is not nearly enough for my pasta sauce.

I add it after I cook it so that the garlic is still fresh.



>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic?

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 01:25:25 -0500

--------



"Alan" <Aldray@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3meE7.4812$5e2.647468@news1.telusplanet.net...

> She would rather swallow it whole,

> but someone has told her it does not have the same effect - which sounds

odd

> to me as I thought the stomache acids would work just the same?



When you mash the garlic clove, a parent substance called alliin meets up

with an enzyme called allinase.  It forms allicin, which is garlic's "active

ingredient".  That's why it's important to chew it.  Allicin becomes

unstable when heated, so you don't get the full effect if it's cooked.



Get her some of those chewable chlorophyll tablets you can find in health

food stores.  It might turn her tongue green for a while, but it does help

to cut the garlic taste and smell.



Saskia



Source:  Rodale's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Herbs







--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 16:45:10 +0200

--------

"Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:



> "Alan" <Aldray@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

> > She would rather swallow it whole,

> > but someone has told her it does not have the same effect - which sounds odd

> > to me as I thought the stomache acids would work just the same?

> 

> When you mash the garlic clove, a parent substance called alliin meets up

> with an enzyme called allinase.  It forms allicin, which is garlic's "active

> ingredient".  That's why it's important to chew it.  Allicin becomes

> unstable when heated, so you don't get the full effect if it's cooked.



You don't have to chew it to get the benefit of allicin.



> Get her some of those chewable chlorophyll tablets you can find in health

> food stores.  It might turn her tongue green for a while, but it does help

> to cut the garlic taste and smell.



No, only giving it to all your friends, too, cuts the smell of garlic.

Then none of you notice that you stink to the high heavens.



As an alternative, eat 2-3 raw cloves of garlic for a few weeks, after

which you don't smell anymore. BUT: lots of people simply cannot take

raw garlic - it's too hard on their stomachs, so they can't do this.



And there's still antimicrobial activity in cooked garlic, it's just not

as effective. So eat LOTS of it. Yum!



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Is it me?

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 17:25:19 GMT

--------

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:22:43 GMT, "KarenS" <karantypes@home.com>

wrote:



>Too quick on the draw, I resent this message.

>

>Anyway, yes my migraine triggers are cleared up except for anxiety/stress.

>Chocolate and hormones are squared away.  I did try feverfew tincture and

>the vomiting from the taste was pretty severe so I have ruled out that type

>of feverfew, never tried the capsules/pills.



It might be worth it to try the capsules/pills.  And as someone else

said in there answer to you, you may not have eliminated all of your

triggers if you are still having migraines.  Aspartame is a big

trigger for some people as well as tyramine-containing foods,

chocolate, (as you mentioned) coffee,  milk, and  mold containing

foods.



Sometimes the only way to do that with food is to go on a 5 day spring

water fast or eat a food in those five days that is very unusual and

that you've never or rarely eaten.  If your trigger is a food or drink

you have been consuming, by day 3 or so you will have the migraine of

the century as you withdraw from that food.



Then by day 5 or 6 the migraine will be gone.   Then you introduce one

food or drink a day at this point.   When you hit the item triggering

your migraine with minutes to hours afterwards, you will get a

migraine and you know you have hit "pay dirt.''



Sometimes a reaction to a "trigger food is 3 days later but this is

rather rare.



Another way to do this is make a food and drink journal and rotate

food families.  After a while you will start to see a pattern of

certain food(s) or drink showing up as triggers.



I agree with the person who stated that stress and anxiety are often

causes of insomnia, but migraines are usually more associated with a

dietary trigger.  And until you find this trigger, herbs are going to

be of mininmal help, although you can still try feverfew capsules or

tablets to help some.



Hope this helps,



Linda

>

>"Linda N" <linda_n@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

>news:ccc0utsdlq9mcpdc0vdj8osj5h6h910s2v@4ax.com...

>> While I am an herbal student and definitely believe in the power of

>> herbs, for chronic migraines and insomnia, it is always best in my

>> view to look for the triggers. Migraine triggers are often foods to

>> which one has become senstive.  Insomnia the same thing.

>>

>> Have you tried the regular use of Feverfew for your migraines? It has

>> help some people and I do use it on occasion in that way, but, in my

>> view, it is best to find your migraine triggers and eliminate them

>> first.

>>

>> I suffered from blinding migraines for years, and when I cleaned up my

>> chronic candida, cleaned up my diet, and cleaned up my environment of

>> everyday toxic chemicals, the migraines went away.  ('This was years

>> and years ago, by the way.)

>>

>> Linda N

>>

>>

>>

>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:12:27 GMT, "KarenS" <karantypes@home.com>

>> wrote:

>>

>> >I suffer through migraines and insomnia quite frequently.  I have tried

>> >kava, valerian, passionflower, 5HTP at various times and don't feel that

>> >they do much.  Is herbal medicine "mind over matter"??

>> >

>> >P.S.  Be gentle - I am a new lurker/poster to this board.

>> >

>>

>







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Is it me?

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 17:25:20 GMT

--------

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:30:01 -0500, "Nate Petreman"

<petreman@siscom.net> wrote:



>where do you go to school/what field...sounds very interesting.  My aunt is

>an Organic farmer (certified) and she seems to be so happy with it.

>I would like to learn about herbs as well.  I do my research online for now,

>but I am sure there is some bogus stuff out there.

>

>Nate



I am taking Rosemary Gladstar's "The Science and Art of Herbology"

distance learning course.



See http://www.sagemountain.com for more information.



Originally I wanted to take the Diploma in Herbal Studies Course at

the Australasian School of Herbal Studies, but I could never come up

with the 1,600 bucks needed for the tuition.  Now the course costs

over 2,000 and many of the books needed are no longer included.



Maybe someday I may still be able to take that course, but I think God

may have had a hand in steering me towards Sage Mountain.



Ms. Gladstar is one well renowned herbalist in the U.S. and I am

finding her course very comprehensive and well written.  I feel I am

learning about herbalism at the feet of one of the best.  The course

is 10 lessons long which does not sound like a lot until you get the

lessons. They are power packed with information and you have to do a

lot of extra studying on your own. 



I have been taking the course for almost a year now (after self study

for a few years on my own) and am almost half way through.  In some

ways what you get out of it is proportional to what you put into it.



What ever herbal course I may take after this, (if I can find a way to

cough up more money....I borrowed the money to pay for this from a

friend.) in my view, what I learned at the feet of Ms. Gladstar will

always be cherished.



Hope this helps.



Linda N



>

>> While I am an herbal student

>







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Is it me?

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 2 Nov 2001 01:47:10 GMT

--------



> I'd identified MSG as one of my triggers- and I was amazed when I found

> that aspartame also did it. I knew other people had the problem with

> MSG, but I'd missed hearing that aspartame has gotten to others as well.

> They sometimes sneak it into 'lowfat' or 'nonfat' yoghurt.



Walker's even sneak it into crisps (prawn cocktail flavour at least).



Who the hell needs a crisp sweetened with anything, let alone aspartame?



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Feverfew

From: "Persephone48" <fakeaddy@noneofyourbuisness.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 17:39:57 GMT

--------

Does anyone know if feverfew is safe to use while breastfeeding?  I suffer

from migraines and would love to be able to take feverfew for it.  My

daughter is due in December, so I thought I'd ask now so I'd know ahead of

time if I should get some or just forget it until later.



Thanks!

--

-Michelle (3-22-79)

Happily married (4-29-01)

DH-Lyle (12-12-76)

DS-Caleb (9-24-99)

EDD (12-05-01)-It's a girl!! Gabrielle Mae

http://www.geocities.com/persephone7999/index.html

http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/s/supercalebbaby











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Feverfew

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:21:39 -0700

--------

"Persephone48" <fakeaddy@noneofyourbuisness.com> wrote:



>Does anyone know if feverfew is safe to use while breastfeeding?  I suffer

>from migraines and would love to be able to take feverfew for it.  My

>daughter is due in December, so I thought I'd ask now so I'd know ahead of

>time if I should get some or just forget it until later.



Whatever you eat comes out in the breastmilk ... and no one has

ever tested feverfew in nursing infants.  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Feverfew

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 04:40:12 -0500

--------

"Persephone48" <fakeaddy@noneofyourbuisness.com> wrote in message

news:NNfE7.219385$K6.106294305@news2...

> Does anyone know if feverfew is safe to use while

> breastfeeding?  I suffer from migraines and would love to be

> able to take feverfew for it.  My daughter is due in December,

> so I thought I'd ask now so I'd know ahead of time if I should

> get some or just forget it until later. Thanks!  > -Michelle 



I have migraine and I have learned persistent undesirable news about

several anti-migraine remedies during the last year. Many of these are

"seritonergic" in the brain (good) and elsewhere (mitral valve-- bad).



Feverfew has just enough suspicion that I would vote against using it

during pregnancy. 



There have been in vitro (test tube) studies showing feverfew damage to

slices of rat aorta here: 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Link&db=PubMed&dbFrom=PubMed&from_uid=8032668



We don't know for sure what this means in living people since many of the

biochemical feedback loops which keep living tissue in healthy balance

have been removed from test tube tissues. Also, the equivalent feverfew

dose in the test tube may have been very high, and everything is more

toxic like that. 



However, fetal formation is at least somewhat like the test tube in that

some or many biochemical feedback loops have not yet been formed. A system

of any type is held in physical shape and functional balance by feedback

loops (like a thermostat). This is one possible systems explanation of why

so many chemicals that don't bother adults are bad for fetuses. 





For migraine prevention, I would suggest experimenting with liberal daily

quantities of low fat solid milk products, such as yogurt or cottage

cheese. These contain a lot of tryptophan, a nutrient precursor to natural

brain seritonin. Of course YMMV, and some folks may have to deal with the

lactase supplementation issue for milk indigestion.



I think that I have had fewer migraines since I began drinking 1/2 cup

daily liquid buttermilk plus a tablespoon of fat-free powdered buttermilk

in soup. (I use these because of their low cost.) Note that the higher

saturated fat of liquid buttermilk reportedly may tend to make migraines

and serum cholesterol worse in an overall high fat diet.



I hope this helps.



Sean

---







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Feverfew

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 05:04:02 -0700

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote:





>There have been in vitro (test tube) studies showing feverfew damage to

>slices of rat aorta here: 

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Link&db=PubMed&dbFrom=PubMed&from_uid=8032668

>



Feverfew does have a definite affect on blood pressure in adult

humans. Persons with low normal may find themselves passing out

when they stand up.  



If this were to be a permanent effect, that could be serious.  











Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Feverfew

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 17:33:30 -0500

--------

"Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:c3n7utkijbe00tu0ggibs5t0krsvjugge3@4ax.com...

> Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote:

> >There have been in vitro (test tube) studies showing feverfew damage to

> >slices of [rabbit] aorta here: 

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Link&db=PubMed&dbFrom=PubMed&from_uid=8032668

> 

> Feverfew does have a definite affect on blood pressure in adult

> humans. Persons with low normal may find themselves passing out

> when they stand up.  

> If this were to be a permanent effect, that could be serious.  



Wow, there are a lot of things to consider--



Natural serotonin causes the smooth muscle of arteries to contract. Whole

body arterial contraction raises relative blood pressure. 



IIRC, one feverfew action is to inhibit release of serotonin from blood

platlets (can't find the cite), possibly resulting in less arterial

contraction and lower blood pressure or even fainting. Platlets are not

permanent, so the blood pressure effects of feverfew via platlets would

not be expected permanent.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8441776&dopt=Abstract

"Feverfew and vascular smooth muscle: extracts from fresh and dried plants

show opposing pharmacological profiles, dependent upon sesquiterpene

lactone [including parthenolide] content."

Barsby, et al, 1993



Barsby, 1993 reported (A)that -fresh- feverfew leaf extract containing

parthenolide caused an in-vitro permanent inhibition of the ability of

smooth muscle to contract.  This is the effect reported about rabbit aorta

slices (oops, not rat). Worrisome if it exists in people.



Barsby, 1993 also reported (B) the opposite effect, that -dried- feverfew

leaf extract that did -not- contain parthenolide "elicited potent and

sustained contractions of aortic smooth muscle" in-vitro (also presumably

sliced rabbit aorta). The dried feverfew leaves which contained no

parthenolide were purchased at health food stores in UK, circa 1993.



Migraines are typically described as having two phases, the arterial

contraction or prodrome phase (with or without an aura), and the arterial

expansion or acute pain phase. In the expansion phase, stretched artery

walls hurt. 



Using the platlet-serotonin-inhibit theory, fresh feverfew leaves would be

eaten daily to prevent a "spill" of serotonin. This would possibly prevent

an arterial contraction migraine prodrome. But are -fresh- feverfew leaves

safe if the Barsby-A effect actually exists in living people? Grieve's

herbal does not mention use of fresh feverfew leaves.



If parthenolide progressively breaks down in aging dried leaves, capsules

of dried feverfew might have good effect, some effect, no effect or

possibly even the opposite effect (Barsby-B) in preventing migraine. 



If the Barsby-B effect ("potent and sustained contractions") actually

exists in living people, then aged dried leaf feverfew might possibly be a

treatment for acute migraine pain. But how could one be sure that all the

parthenolide was gone? Fry it? Make infusion tea? Make decoction tea? How

much would be needed?



Sean

---











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Feverfew

From: "Persephone" <fakeaddy@noneofyourbuisness.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 03:47:59 GMT

--------

Yes, if it is a permanent effect you could bet your bottom dollar I wouldn't

be using it.  I have very low blood pressure as the norm, I go up to 120/80

while pregnant, but am normally anywhere from 80/60 to 90/70.  I'm also

hypoglycemic, don't know if that has anything to do with anything.



Thanks for the information!

-Michelle









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: heal ulcer, or relieve pain

From: "iam me" <budhaboy@email.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 02:04:07 GMT

--------

A good friend of mine has an ulcer.  (I believe it is in his stomach) It is

also irritating his pancreas.  (pancreatitis? He wasn't sure exactly what

the doctor called it)  His diet has always been VERY poor.  His wife is

working on him to eat more veggies but she doesn't really eat very well

herself.  So after years of ignoring my suggestions, he is finally willing

to make some changes.  He is in quite a bit of pain, even though he was

given medication.  My questions are, what teas, herbs, etc can I recommend

to relieve his immediate pain when eating?  What can he eat that will not

irritate him?  What herbs can he use, and in what form, to promote healing

&/or a quick recovery?



 So far, different books I have read suggest  comfrey and licorice root,

both of which may have serious side effects.  If there is something less

dangerous or if the threat is merely blown out of proportion, I would really

like to know.



Thankyou very much!  -Jeska









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: heal ulcer, or relieve pain

From: "Darcy" <darcygehl@netscape.net>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:00:07 GMT

--------

I know that peppermint can be relaxing occasionally for stomache problems.

and that as a tea or just eating a teaspoon of the herb will help curb the

acid in the stomache after he eats a bad agrravating meal.

I have found that for myself it was mostly linked to a nerve problem so if

he can find something that relaxs him it may curb the problem or at least

lessen it.  Hot peppers actually have been found to help ulcers instead of

aggravate them.  thou not 100% sure of which ones.



"iam me" <budhaboy@email.com> wrote in message

news:ranE7.67508$8a.46718318@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com...

> A good friend of mine has an ulcer.  (I believe it is in his stomach) It

is

> also irritating his pancreas.  (pancreatitis? He wasn't sure exactly what

> the doctor called it)  His diet has always been VERY poor.  His wife is

> working on him to eat more veggies but she doesn't really eat very well

> herself.  So after years of ignoring my suggestions, he is finally willing

> to make some changes.  He is in quite a bit of pain, even though he was

> given medication.  My questions are, what teas, herbs, etc can I recommend

> to relieve his immediate pain when eating?  What can he eat that will not

> irritate him?  What herbs can he use, and in what form, to promote healing

> &/or a quick recovery?

>

>  So far, different books I have read suggest  comfrey and licorice root,

> both of which may have serious side effects.  If there is something less

> dangerous or if the threat is merely blown out of proportion, I would

really

> like to know.

>

> Thankyou very much!  -Jeska

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: heal ulcer, or relieve pain

From: g-nome <mpcato@lafn.org>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 21:05:22 -0800

--------

iam me wrote:

> 

> A good friend of mine has an ulcer.  (I believe it is in his stomach) It is

> also irritating his pancreas.  (pancreatitis? He wasn't sure exactly what

> the doctor called it)  His diet has always been VERY poor.  His wife is

> working on him to eat more veggies but she doesn't really eat very well

> herself.  So after years of ignoring my suggestions, he is finally willing

> to make some changes.  He is in quite a bit of pain, even though he was

> given medication.  



Pancreatitis. The pancreas is very much connected with the liver,

the bloods strainer. Poor diet, acetaminophen, and alcohol

can lead to some major problems with the liver, pancreas, and

gall bladder. And pancreatitis is extremely painful. I suffered 

from it 17 years ago.

Yes, this coming from a past consumer of Amanita. It doesn't do a 

whole lot for me, so I will not try it again.

My sister does have liver and pancreas problems so I have done

a bit of research on the net. We don't get a long, but, she is my

sister.

Ulcers. I have had some experience with them too. Type A stress

junkie. Peppermint helped a lot with the symptoms. It was not a 

cure. An old herbal concoction, 13th cent., corroborated by modern

medicine and herbalists consists of ground activated charchol,

peppermint, and magnesium hydroxide. Kind of sounds a lot like Maalox

without the aluminum hydroxide. It is. 

It also depends a lot on where the ulcer is. The stomach? The

esophagus? The duodenum? And how long the symptoms have been occuring?

All important items when treating an ulcer, no matter

what style of healing you prefere.

Only from a first hand experience. Just a sugestion. Check it out

with others and make up your own mind.





   Michael.



My questions are, what teas, herbs, etc. can I recommend

> to relieve his immediate pain when eating?  What can he eat that will not

> irritate him?  What herbs can he use, and in what form, to promote healing

> &/or a quick recovery?

> 

>  So far, different books I have read suggest  comfrey and licorice root,

> both of which may have serious side effects.  If there is something less

> dangerous or if the threat is merely blown out of proportion, I would really

> like to know.

> 

> Thankyou very much!  -Jeska





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: heal ulcer, or relieve pain

From: "Paul Maser" <paul@maser.net>

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 08:46:44 -0800

--------

Since 1995, doctors have realized that ulcers are caused by a bacterium

(heliobacter pylori) and that they have antibiotics that cure it. The

Internet has a lot of good info on this.

The herbal cure, which takes longer is slippery elm bark tea taken before

every meal. A large pinch in a cup with hot water. Drink within five minutes

of preparation.

Paul

"iam me" <budhaboy@email.com> wrote in message

news:ranE7.67508$8a.46718318@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com...

> A good friend of mine has an ulcer.  (I believe it is in his stomach) It

is

> also irritating his pancreas.  (pancreatitis? He wasn't sure exactly what

> the doctor called it)  His diet has always been VERY poor.  His wife is

> working on him to eat more veggies but she doesn't really eat very well

> herself.  So after years of ignoring my suggestions, he is finally willing

> to make some changes.  He is in quite a bit of pain, even though he was

> given medication.  My questions are, what teas, herbs, etc can I recommend

> to relieve his immediate pain when eating?  What can he eat that will not

> irritate him?  What herbs can he use, and in what form, to promote healing

> &/or a quick recovery?

>

>  So far, different books I have read suggest  comfrey and licorice root,

> both of which may have serious side effects.  If there is something less

> dangerous or if the threat is merely blown out of proportion, I would

really

> like to know.

>

> Thankyou very much!  -Jeska

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: more energy

From: "Meaghan  Millen" <mlmillen@sympatico.ca>

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 22:45:10 -0500

--------

Hi, I'm kinda new here, and maily lurk reading.  A little back ground, my

main interest is aromatherapy, but I do realize that herbs can be just as

effective.  A friend of mine asked me if I knew of any herb or something

that would give him more energy.  I know of essential oils, but he'd like to

know of herbs something he can ingest if possible



I've already suggested eating properly, and more exercise, and look at his

sleep.  Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in

advance



meaghan









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: more energy

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:18 -0700

--------

"Meaghan  Millen" <mlmillen@sympatico.ca> wrote:



>Hi, I'm kinda new here, and maily lurk reading.  A little back ground, my

>main interest is aromatherapy, but I do realize that herbs can be just as

>effective.  A friend of mine asked me if I knew of any herb or something

>that would give him more energy.



>I've already suggested eating properly, and more exercise, and look at his

>sleep. 



There are no magic potions (herbs) that can pull energy out of

the atmosphere and give it to him.  It has to come from inside

the cells ... and the only way it gets there is through good

diet, moderate exercise, and adequate sleep. 



There are herbs (mostly caffeine and ephedra containing ones)

that can FORCE your body to temporarily feel more energatic, but

they do this by robbing the reserves.  You end up crashing and

feeling worse. 





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: more energy

From: Yez <yezelel@newsguy.com>

Date: 2 Nov 2001 18:55:25 GMT

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:



<snip> 

> There are herbs (mostly caffeine and ephedra containing ones)

> that can FORCE your body to temporarily feel more energatic, but

> they do this by robbing the reserves.  You end up crashing and

> feeling worse. 



I get a nice boost with ginseng, do you know if that robs your 

reserves as well?



'rena





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: more energy

From: g-nome <mpcato@lafn.org>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 20:33:42 -0800

--------

Ginseng gives me gas and major heartburn. But then, I am 

allergic to garlic. And oddly enough, surgical silver. No,

really. And the caffeine from any source does drain your 

energy reserves. And EEEKK, ephedra, well I also have 

problems with that, too.





   Michael.



Yez wrote:

> 

> Tsu Dho Nimh wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:

> 

> <snip>

> > There are herbs (mostly caffeine and ephedra containing ones)

> > that can FORCE your body to temporarily feel more energatic, but

> > they do this by robbing the reserves.  You end up crashing and

> > feeling worse.

> 

> I get a nice boost with ginseng, do you know if that robs your

> reserves as well?

> 

> 'rena





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: more energy

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 05:06:12 -0700

--------

Yez <yezelel@newsguy.com> wrote:



>Tsu Dho Nimh wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:

>

><snip> 

>> There are herbs (mostly caffeine and ephedra containing ones)

>> that can FORCE your body to temporarily feel more energatic, but

>> they do this by robbing the reserves.  You end up crashing and

>> feeling worse. 

>

>I get a nice boost with ginseng, do you know if that robs your 

>reserves as well?



  I don't know - it may step up activity of the energy production

pathways.  

  But caffiene (yerba mate) and ephedra (ma huang) are like armed

robbers, in that they boost the energy utilization far more than

the production, ending in a deficit. 





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: more energy

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 21:06:41 +0200

--------

Yez <yezelel@newsguy.com> wrote:



> Tsu Dho Nimh wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:

> <snip> 

> > There are herbs (mostly caffeine and ephedra containing ones)

> > that can FORCE your body to temporarily feel more energatic, but

> > they do this by robbing the reserves.  You end up crashing and

> > feeling worse. 

> 

> I get a nice boost with ginseng, do you know if that robs your 

> reserves as well?



Ginseng fills up your reserves - but only if you do it _without_ taking

caffeine at the same time. 



And you can use any of a number of adaptogens like ginseng, no need to

shell out major bucks for the name of ginseng - especially as, like it

says in the medicinal herbfaq, many ginseng products don't contain any

ginseng (at USD 700 per pound dried root (wildcrafted) or USD 200 per

pound dried root (organically grown)(prices from 1998 or so) I'm not a

bit surprised).



So, do, for instance, gotu kola (which is NOT the same as cola nut) or

Withania somnifera, or Leuzea rhaponticum, or Rhodiola rosea, or even

good old licorice root, which, while not an adaptogen, still helps your

adrenals.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: more energy

From: Yez <yezelel@newsguy.com>

Date: 4 Nov 2001 04:46:10 GMT

--------

Henriette Kress wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:



> Ginseng fills up your reserves - but only if you do it _without_

> taking caffeine at the same time. 



Thanks for the info Henriette!

 

> And you can use any of a number of adaptogens like ginseng, no

> need to shell out major bucks for the name of ginseng -

> especially as, like it says in the medicinal herbfaq, many

> ginseng products don't contain any ginseng (at USD 700 per pound

> dried root (wildcrafted) or USD 200 per pound dried root

> (organically grown)(prices from 1998 or so) I'm not a bit

> surprised). 



I get the extractum I fancy from a company called Hsu's, I have heard 

good things about their company and their 'power pieces' do seem to 

accelerate my senses too but....

 

> So, do, for instance, gotu kola (which is NOT the same as cola

> nut) or Withania somnifera, or Leuzea rhaponticum, or Rhodiola

> rosea, or even good old licorice root, which, while not an

> adaptogen, still helps your adrenals.



I really appreciate the pointer to the herbs you mentioned above, I've 

heard of gotu cola but not tried it and licorice root (yechh!) but 

haven't heard of the others, and will definitely be doing a little 

research on them and checking my catalogs for them now, thanks!



Good Health,

'rena in El Cajon





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: essential oil blend for earaches, and nose stuffyness????

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 2 Nov 2001 15:13:00 GMT

--------

>I have the following allergies as given by an allergist trees, what kinds no

>idea (possibly pollens) ,  dust mites,



>I live in western canda alberta and have been suffering for the last year

>from reaccuring ear infections and stuffy head.



>what are good oils to mix together and dilute into water that I could use as

>ear drops and as nose stuffyness removiers.



>Darcy



If you are looking for essential oils as opposed to herbs proper, you might want

to post to alt.aromatherapy



I am sadly underinformed on how to use essential oils, or which ones to use.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: essential oil blend for earaches, and nose stuffyness????

From: "Graham Sorenson" <fragrantXXXX@bigfoot.com>

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 19:37:45 GMT

--------



"Darcy" <darcygehl@netscape.net> wrote in message

news:9nSD7.131635$oa2.42304566@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com...

> I have the following allergies as given by an allergist trees, what kinds

no

> idea (possibly pollens) ,  dust mites,

>

> I live in western canda alberta and have been suffering for the last year

> from reaccuring ear infections and stuffy head.

>

> what are good oils to mix together and dilute into water that I could use

as

> ear drops and as nose stuffyness removiers.

>

> Darcy



Hi Darcy.. You do not mix oils with water (They don't mix) and more

importantly you don't drop essential oils into the nose or ears. Even when

diluted.



--

Graham Sorenson

http://TheGuideToAromatherapy.com









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: essential oil blend for earaches, and nose stuffyness????

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 22:04:21 +0200

--------

"Graham Sorenson" <fragrantXXXX@bigfoot.com> wrote:



> > what are good oils to mix together and dilute into water that I could use as

> > ear drops and as nose stuffyness removiers.

> 

> Hi Darcy.. You do not mix oils with water (They don't mix) and more

> importantly you don't drop essential oils into the nose or ears. Even when

> diluted.



You can mix essential oils (EO) and water if you first make the EO into a

spirit. That is, one part essential oil to ten parts 95 % EtOH.



However, that's even worse on tender mucous membranes...



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: essential oil blend for earaches, and nose stuffyness????

From: "Graham Sorenson" <fragrantXXXX@bigfoot.com>

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 01:47:24 GMT

--------

>

> > > what are good oils to mix together and dilute into water that I could

use as

> > > ear drops and as nose stuffyness removiers.

> >

> > Hi Darcy.. You do not mix oils with water (They don't mix) and more

> > importantly you don't drop essential oils into the nose or ears. Even

when

> > diluted.

>

> You can mix essential oils (EO) and water if you first make the EO into a

> spirit. That is, one part essential oil to ten parts 95 % EtOH.

>

> However, that's even worse on tender mucous membranes...

>

> Cheers

> Henriette





yes but that is changing the affects of the oils by changeing the chemical

composition anyway :-)



any oil can be made to mix with water if you use a surfactant but who knows

what the effect will be ??



Graham





>

> --

> hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

> Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: essential oil blend for earaches, and nose stuffyness????

From: "Deb" <debra@nospam.com>

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 02:28:28 -0800

--------



> > > what are good oils to mix together and dilute into water that

I could use as

> > > ear drops and as nose stuffyness removiers.

> >



You can make an infused oil with olive oil and mullien flowers.

(heat together gently for 1.5 hrs, do not exceed 150*  --  see FAQ

for more instructions)  The oil will help the earwax loosen and your

body can eliminate it easier.  Some people use garlic oil but it has

a tendency toward botulism, so I wouldn't want to put it into my

ears.  I wonder about opening a garlic oil gelcap and squeezing that

in?



The best thing I ever found for stuffy sinuses is an attachment that

hooks onto my waterpic and pulses at the same rate as healthy

cilica.  A saline solution will be all you need to use.  You could

also use the saline in a neti pot.  Learn more at alt.sinusitis (I

think thats the name of the group--I haven't been there for awhile)



Deb



--

Check 3 books, get 3 more opinions.  Don't just take my word.  I'm

still learning.  ;>







    http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

> Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant

names  ...

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: essential oil blend for earaches, and nose stuffyness????

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 11 Nov 2001 15:17:52 GMT

--------

>The best thing I ever found for stuffy sinuses is an attachment that

>hooks onto my waterpic and pulses at the same rate as healthy

>cilica.  A saline solution will be all you need to use.  You could

>also use the saline in a neti pot.  Learn more at alt.sinusitis (I

>think thats the name of the group--I haven't been there for awhile)



>Deb



I think the newsgroup is alt.support.sinusitis, though there could possibly be

others.  From a cross-posted message in another newsgroup:



Newsgroups: alt.med.allergy,alt.support.asthma,alt.support.pulmonary,alt.support.sinusitis,alt.support.sleep-disorder,sci.med,sci.med.immunology,sci.med.pharmacy



Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.med.allergy:5719 alt.support.asthma:89961 alt.support.sinusitis:7858 alt.support.sleep-disorder:55348 sci.med:302424 sci.med.immunology:17216 sci.med.pharmacy:102051







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: essential oil blend for earaches, and nose stuffyness????

From: "Gisela" <gisela@gibbon12.freeserve.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:28:56 -0000

--------

Get a garlic oil capsule, break it open, warm the oil in a spoon over a

candle -carefully! - it needs to be runny, not sizzling hot:-), pour slowly

into the ear, down the side of the ear canal, so that any air can escape.

Stay away from dairy products - don't experiment with essential oils in your

ear.

Gisela

www.eastwestpublications.com



"Darcy" <darcygehl@netscape.net> wrote in message

news:9nSD7.131635$oa2.42304566@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com...

> I have the following allergies as given by an allergist trees, what kinds

no

> idea (possibly pollens) ,  dust mites,

>

> I live in western canda alberta and have been suffering for the last year

> from reaccuring ear infections and stuffy head.

>

> what are good oils to mix together and dilute into water that I could use

as

> ear drops and as nose stuffyness removiers.

>

> Darcy

>

>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: essential oil blend for earaches, and nose stuffyness????

From: lanshirwil@aol.com (Catherine Symonds)

Date: 18 Nov 2001 15:28:15 -0800

--------

My 10-year-old daughter suffers from recurrent ear infections

(thankfully, much less this year than last year!), and we've found

that a few drops of warm St. John's Wort oil in the ear provides

instant pain-relief & helps to clear it up.



I wish I had made a notation of the article I had read re: Tea Tree

oil & dust mites, so I'll just have to go by what I remember . . .  A

study conducted in Australia (or was it New Zealand?) showed that

bedsheets and blankets laundered in hot water, detergent *and* Tea

Tree oil to be much more effective in ridding them of dust mites than

simply laundered in hot water and detergent.

I suppose it won't be long before Tea Tree-containing laundry

detergents & Tea Tree bedding sprays (for mattresses, pillows) will

snare people's attention. ;o)



"Darcy" <darcygehl@netscape.net> wrote in message news:<9nSD7.131635$oa2.42304566@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com>...

> I have the following allergies as given by an allergist trees, what kinds no

> idea (possibly pollens) ,  dust mites,

> 

> I live in western canda alberta and have been suffering for the last year

> from reaccuring ear infections and stuffy head.

> 

> what are good oils to mix together and dilute into water that I could use as

> ear drops and as nose stuffyness removiers.

> 

> Darcy





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Garlic again?

From: "Alan" <Aldray@bigfoot.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 15:51:21 GMT

--------

Thanks all for your replies.  Someone also told me that if you eat too much

garlic it will seep through your pores (you wil smell it on your skin?).

Surely not  with one clove a day?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic again?

From: garlicgrower@snip.net (Alliums)

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 01 18:42:32 GMT

--------

, "Alan" <Aldray@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> Someone also told me that if you eat too much

>garlic it will seep through your pores (you wil smell it on your skin?).



Pooh.  Garlic smells wonderful and everyone should eat as much as they want.  

If you do worry about smelling, just take a nice hot shower -- the smelly 

stuff is water-soluble and it will wash right out of you.





>Surely not  with one clove a day?



More like one head/day raw -- roasted, you can eat a lot more.







Dinara, the Garlic QUEEN*

Sustainable agriculture takes root with your support!        <*>



*Philadelphia Harvest Show 2001 results:



Blue Ribbons: Garlic, Single Variety & Garlic Basket, 16 Varieties

Community Garden Sweepstakes Award: Most Blue Ribbons Won by a Community Garden





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic again?

From: bilherbs@aol.com (Bilherbs)

Date: 03 Nov 2001 02:18:41 GMT

--------

Stick a clove of garlic in your sock and wear it to bed one night. You WILL

have garlic breath the next morning.



Belinda





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic again?

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 12:42:50 -0000

--------

Anyone tried the 'eat a sprig of fresh parsley' thing after eating garlic?

It's

the last thing I've ever wanted to do at the end of a yummy garlic-laced

meal, but if it works,    well.....it would mean we could eat it more of it

;o)







"Bilherbs" <bilherbs@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011102211841.12126.00002142@mb-mv.aol.com...

> Stick a clove of garlic in your sock and wear it to bed one night. You

WILL

> have garlic breath the next morning.

>

> Belinda













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic again?

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 5 Nov 2001 08:49:31 GMT

--------

from "Alan" <Aldray@bigfoot.com>:



>Thanks all for your replies.  Someone also told me that if you eat too much

>garlic it will seep through your pores (you wil smell it on your skin?).

>Surely not  with one clove a day?



I wouldn't think so.  I once heard that road workers in Alaska ate lots of

garlic to make themselves malodorous to the voracious mosquitoes.



)Stick a clove of garlic in your sock and wear it to bed one night. You WILL

)have garlic breath the next morning.



)Belinda



That sounds like wishful thinking to me.  I would certainly like to get the

benefits of garlic but am greatly limited in what I can eat, especially raw,

with sensitive, ticklish throat and respiratory system.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic again?

From: bilherbs@aol.com (Bilherbs)

Date: 06 Nov 2001 03:31:42 GMT

--------

>)Stick a clove of garlic in your sock and wear it to bed one night. You WILL

>)have garlic breath the next morning.

>

>)Belinda

>

>That sounds like wishful thinking to me.  I would certainly like to get the

>benefits of garlic but am greatly limited in what I can eat, especially raw,

>with sensitive, ticklish throat and respiratory system.



You want me to send you a clove and a sock? <G>



Belinda





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbs In A Nebulizer

From: pumpkin0669@juno.com (Pumpkin)

Date: 2 Nov 2001 22:48:51 -0800

--------

Is it possible to use herbs in a medical type of compressor nebulizer??





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs In A Nebulizer

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 3 Nov 2001 11:56:40 GMT

--------



> Is it possible to use herbs in a medical type of compressor nebulizer??



If you don't mind being a human guinea pig for an experiment in new ways

to induce asthma.  Your lungs are not designed to cope with direct

contact with plant material, and if there is any trace at all of mould

on the herbs you're using (difficult to be sure of) you could set off a

lifelong respiratory mould allergy.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs In A Nebulizer

From: pumpkin0669@juno.com (Pumpkin)

Date: 4 Nov 2001 08:33:13 -0800

--------

How about essential oils in those medical nebulizers? 



I have a burner that is made for essential oils (candle type) and the

info I have gathered states you can inhale some of the oils using a

burner, but I don't know which ones.



Pumpkin







bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address) wrote in message news:<8287@purr.demon.co.uk>...

> > Is it possible to use herbs in a medical type of compressor nebulizer??

> 

> If you don't mind being a human guinea pig for an experiment in new ways

> to induce asthma.  Your lungs are not designed to cope with direct

> contact with plant material, and if there is any trace at all of mould

> on the herbs you're using (difficult to be sure of) you could set off a

> lifelong respiratory mould allergy.

> 

> ========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

> Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

> http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

> freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs In A Nebulizer

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 05:08:41 -0700

--------

pumpkin0669@juno.com (Pumpkin) wrote:



>Is it possible to use herbs in a medical type of compressor nebulizer??



  No,  The leaves get stuck in the nozzle. 



  Forcing herbal solutions into your lungs sounds like a BAD

idea.  Their traditional use is plain inhalation, and the results

of forced aspiration could be quite different than you expect.





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Reynaud's syndrome

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 01:49:28 -0500

--------

Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome.  In a nutshell, the

circulation to my hands and feet gets very bad in the cold weather.  The way

the doctor explained it was that the cold causes the small blood vessels to

go into spasm, which makes my hands and feet feel very cold.  They get

white - sometimes slightly purplish if it's really cold.  The best way to

get warm is to take a hot bath, which opens the blood vessels and gets my

circulation going again.  But I can't take a hot bath when I'm at work....

  )



Does anyone know of any herbs that are good for the circulation?  I have low

blood pressure, so it's OK if its something that will slightly raise the

blood pressure.  Stimulants like ginseng and ephedra don't seem to work -

they actually seem to aggravate the situation.  I was thinking of something

more along the lines of an herb that promotes healthy blood vessels.



Saskia

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 05:14:34 -0700

--------

"Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:



>Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome.  In a nutshell, the

>circulation to my hands and feet gets very bad in the cold weather.  The way

>the doctor explained it was that the cold causes the small blood vessels to

>go into spasm, which makes my hands and feet feel very cold.  They get

>white - sometimes slightly purplish if it's really cold.  The best way to

>get warm is to take a hot bath, which opens the blood vessels and gets my

>circulation going again.  But I can't take a hot bath when I'm at work....



  A heating pad works wonders.  Put it on the floor and keep your

feet on it.  



  For the hands, filling the restroom sink with HOT water and

immersing your hands and forearms might help.  Wearing fingerless

gloves to prevent heat loss



  Also make sure your clothing is not restricting blood flow, and

that you have heat-retaining socks and even gloves.  You might

find that "core warmth" retaining clothing (thermal underwear)

helps the peripheral circulation. 



>Does anyone know of any herbs that are good for the circulation?  



  What's that B vitamin that causes hot flashes?







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: baird@newstaff.com (Baird Stafford)

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 15:23:23 -0500

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:



<snip>



>   What's that B vitamin that causes hot flashes?



Niacin - an excellent vasodilator.  Apparently, to be "medically

significant," the dose must be between 500 - 1000 mg.



The prickly "flush" can be avoided by getting the stuff in a

time-release formula.



Baird







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 19:02:44 -0600

--------

On Sat, 3 Nov 2001 01:49:28 -0500, "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

wrote:



>Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome.  In a nutshell, the

>circulation to my hands and feet gets very bad in the cold weather.  The way

>the doctor explained it was that the cold causes the small blood vessels to

>go into spasm, which makes my hands and feet feel very cold.  They get

>white - sometimes slightly purplish if it's really cold.  The best way to

>get warm is to take a hot bath, which opens the blood vessels and gets my

>circulation going again.  But I can't take a hot bath when I'm at work....

>  )

>

>Does anyone know of any herbs that are good for the circulation?  I have low

>blood pressure, so it's OK if its something that will slightly raise the

>blood pressure.  Stimulants like ginseng and ephedra don't seem to work -

>they actually seem to aggravate the situation.  I was thinking of something

>more along the lines of an herb that promotes healthy blood vessels.



There's something rumoured to be a military method that I used in a

modified form that worked wonderfully for my hands.  I was going to go

outside in a non smoking household to have a cigarette.   But first I

wanted to wash the dishes I'd dirtied up.  I already had my down

jacket on, but did them in very hot water (I always wash dishes with

the hottest water my hands can stand).  When I realized I then had the

chance to try the military method, I turned up the heat and held my

hands under the hot until my fingernails started to hurt.  Then I went

outside into the below zero (F) weather and had a cigarette.  My hands

steamed at first.  And then felt fine.  I had another cigarette. My

hands still felt fine, but my trunk and legs were getting cold.  I've

not been bothered much by cold hands since then and then only to about

the extent a normal person would be.   I've not had the nerve to try

it on my feet.  I just wear fuzzy slippers and warm socks a lot....



There are several variations on it that I've seen in a couple of

camping groups.  One is to go as near naked as is socially acceptable

into a very cold place (your yard, the garage) and put your hands /

feet into a bucket of very hot water.  The hot water should be kept

hot, so you should have a helper to fill up for you.  Sounds stupid.

But my variation worked for me, so the full method might be even

better.

-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 07:25:56 -0700

--------

cyli@tiny.net.invalid wrote:





>There's something rumoured to be a military method that I used in a

>modified form that worked wonderfully for my hands.  I was going to go

>outside in a non smoking household to have a cigarette.   



Cigarettes are VERY BAD for people with Reynaud's, because the

nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. 





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 04:23:31 -0500

--------

"Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:9s0434$43l$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...

> Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome. 

[snip]

> I have low blood pressure

[snip]

> Stimulants like ginseng [...] don't seem to work...



Both I and Durk Pearson in _Life Extension_, 1982 both found natural

thyroid extract to be a potent hand warming agent. Accept no synthetic

substitutes. Properly dosed thyroid extract will modestly raise your heart

rate and blood pressure. 



Your doc probably won't give you any to even try it. And typically he will

try to justify this and try to scare you, by citing extreme cases. 



Yes, it is possible to successfully take a limited amount of additional

thyroid even if thyroid serum tests are "normal". No blood serum test can

accurately indicate your true metabolic rate inside cells.  Basal

temperature testing can. 



If you are able to buy thyroid extract in Mexico, limit your dose so that

your waking basal temperature does not rise over 98.2 F (Dr. Barnes), or

your heart rate over 90 bpm (Framingham study). Like everything else, use

the smallest dose that gets the job done. See 

<http://www.brodabarnes.org> 

for more details on temperature testing based thyroid treatment.



Ginseng is known to increase adrenal hormone output which may somewhat

increase heat and enzyme metabolism. If that isn't working well, the

thyroid system is the next one to try boosting. Later, ginseng may be

useful also, should you need the Barnes "combination treatment".





BTW, high dose time-release type of niacin has been claimed to cause

serious liver trouble. I don't know the details, but life extensionists

are generally opposed to high doses of single vitamins unless taken in a

reasonable balance with other mega-vitamins-minerals. 



Good luck,

Sean

(Not A Doc And I May Be Wrong   :)





"Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:9s0434$43l$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...

> Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome.  In a

> nutshell, the circulation to my hands and feet gets very bad in

> the cold weather.  The way the doctor explained it was that the

> cold causes the small blood vessels to go into spasm, which

> makes my hands and feet feel very cold.  They get white -

> sometimes slightly purplish if it's really cold.  The best way

> to get warm is to take a hot bath, which opens the blood vessels

> and gets my circulation going again.  But I can't take a hot

> bath when I'm at work....

> 

> Does anyone know of any herbs that are good for the

> circulation?  I have low blood pressure, so it's OK if its

> something that will slightly raise the blood pressure. 

> Stimulants like ginseng and ephedra don't seem to work -they

> actually seem to aggravate the situation.  I was thinking of

> something more along the lines of an herb that promotes healthy

> blood vessels. Saskia









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: jbyron <geodigest@telocity.com>

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 13:11:34 -0500

--------

I have seen some work suggesting that fish oil (cod liver oil, salmon oil) 

might be beneficial in Reynaud's disease. The fats that are present in fish 

oils (and possibly flax oil) have a major effect on arachidonic acid 

metabolism.  In some diseases (asthma, reynaud's), there seems to be an 

excess of certain arachidonic acid compounds that cause smooth muscle to 

contract.  Essential fatty acids reduce the level of these vasoconstricting 

fat compounds. 



Jonathan 





Saskia wrote:



> Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome.  In a nutshell, the

> circulation to my hands and feet gets very bad in the cold weather.  The

> way the doctor explained it was that the cold causes the small blood

> vessels to

> go into spasm, which makes my hands and feet feel very cold.  They get

> white - sometimes slightly purplish if it's really cold.  The best way to

> get warm is to take a hot bath, which opens the blood vessels and gets my

> circulation going again.  But I can't take a hot bath when I'm at work....

>   )

> 

> Does anyone know of any herbs that are good for the circulation?  I have

> low blood pressure, so it's OK if its something that will slightly raise

> the

> blood pressure.  Stimulants like ginseng and ephedra don't seem to work -

> they actually seem to aggravate the situation.  I was thinking of

> something more along the lines of an herb that promotes healthy blood

> vessels.

> 

> Saskia

> --

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 6 Nov 2001 00:16:32 GMT

--------



> Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome. [...]

> Does anyone know of any herbs that are good for the circulation?



Shouldn't ginkgo help?



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 04:15:38 -0700

--------

bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address) wrote:



>

>> Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome. [...]

>> Does anyone know of any herbs that are good for the circulation?

>

>Shouldn't ginkgo help?



 Its effect on circulation is from its anticoagulant action.  One

baby aspirin a day is just as effective and MUCH cheaper. 





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Reynaud's syndrome

From: "Gisela" <gisela@gibbon12.freeserve.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:16:58 -0000

--------

Get yourself some Buckwheat capsules, which can also be taken as tea - rich

in Rutin, essential for the circulation. Also Ginger, and to some extend

Gingko would be helpful. You can add a handful of powdered ginger to your

bath, too. Add cinnamon to your food and tea whenever possible.And keep

moving, and protect yourself against temperature fluctuations - keep warm,

but not too hot, wear gloves int he cold, etc. Dry skin brushing in the

morning, along with stretching and breathing exercises all keep your system

going...and add ginger essential oil and juniper berry with some grapefruit

or other citrus oil to a base oil for massage.Use daily. And don't ever,

ever smoke.

Good luck, Gisela.

www.eastwestpublications.com



"Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:9s0434$43l$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...

> Two years ago I was diagnosed with Reynaud's Syndrome.  In a nutshell, the

> circulation to my hands and feet gets very bad in the cold weather.  The

way

> the doctor explained it was that the cold causes the small blood vessels

to

> go into spasm, which makes my hands and feet feel very cold.  They get

> white - sometimes slightly purplish if it's really cold.  The best way to

> get warm is to take a hot bath, which opens the blood vessels and gets my

> circulation going again.  But I can't take a hot bath when I'm at work....

>   )

>

> Does anyone know of any herbs that are good for the circulation?  I have

low

> blood pressure, so it's OK if its something that will slightly raise the

> blood pressure.  Stimulants like ginseng and ephedra don't seem to work -

> they actually seem to aggravate the situation.  I was thinking of

something

> more along the lines of an herb that promotes healthy blood vessels.

>

> Saskia

> --

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.

>

>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Juniper berries?

From: "Alan" <Aldray@bigfoot.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 17:15:54 GMT

--------

Gin supposedly is flavored with juniper berries.  Don't know if this is

still the case these days, as the bottle just says *botanicals* whatever

they would be in gin????  Question is.....Does anyone have a book with the

herbal answer to juniper berries that they could quote to me?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Juniper berries?

From: derwyn <ynerbyn@bo.m>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:17:15 +1300

--------

Sloe gin is nice, just soak sloes (fruit of the blackthorn) in a bottle

till dark red and drink (in moderation!)







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,alt.forsale.nutrition,alt.health,alt.health.ayurveda,alt.health.cfs

Subject: Best way to make herbal teas at home 

From: Scout <scout2001@mailandnews.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 14:16:09 -0500

--------

I want some resources and answers for making herbal teas and liquids.

I am new to herbs.  Been in vitamins and homeopathy for many years. 



To save time and customize the herbs for my body, I want to buy bulk

herbs and then make them into teas or liquids.  It seems that buying

the bulk POWDERS is probably easier than buying the actual

herb/flower.  



I want to learn the best way to make the teas or liquids.  I want to

know about: 



()storing the herbs.  I assume glass with some type of cork top or

rubber seal?



()making the teas or liquids and conveniently having them ready-made

in my refrigerator for re-heating in the microwave.



My objectives are convenience and customization to what I need.  



What books, videos, resources, do you recommend?



THANK YOU!  







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,alt.forsale.nutrition,alt.health,alt.health.ayurveda,alt.health.cfs

Subject: Best way to make herbal teas at home 

From: Scout <scout2001@mailandnews.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 14:19:00 -0500

--------

I want some resources and answers for making herbal teas and liquids.

I am new to herbs.  Been in vitamins and homeopathy for many years. 



To save time and customize the herbs for my body, I want to buy bulk

herbs and then make them into teas or liquids.  It seems that buying

the bulk POWDERS is probably easier than buying the actual

herb/flower.  



I want to learn the best way to make the teas or liquids.  I want to

know about: 



()storing the herbs.  I assume glass with some type of cork top or

rubber seal?



()making the teas or liquids and conveniently having them ready-made

in my refrigerator for re-heating in the microwave.



My objectives are convenience and customization to what I need.  



What books, videos, resources, do you recommend?



THANK YOU! 



P.S. I FORGOT TO MENTION:  PLEASE EMAIL ME DIRECTLY AT

scout2001@mailandnews.com because my PDA can not check the newsgroup. 







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,alt.forsale.nutrition,alt.health,alt.health.ayurveda,alt.health.cfs

Subject: Re: Best way to make herbal teas at home

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 5 Nov 2001 08:49:28 GMT

--------

Scout <scout2001@mailandnews.com> wrote in alt.folklore.herbs:



> I want some resources and answers for making herbal teas and liquids.

> I am new to herbs.  Been in vitamins and homeopathy for many years.

>

> To save time and customize the herbs for my body, I want to buy bulk

> herbs and then make them into teas or liquids.  It seems that buying

> the bulk POWDERS is probably easier than buying the actual

> herb/flower.

>

> I want to learn the best way to make the teas or liquids.  I want to

> know about:

>

> ()storing the herbs.  I assume glass with some type of cork top or

> rubber seal?

(snip)



The Herb Book, by John Lust, copyright 1974, is a good book to start, but lacks

the newer knowledge.  John Lust was western-oriented, with very little

information on Chinese or Ayurvedic herbs.



> P.S. I FORGOT TO MENTION:  PLEASE EMAIL ME DIRECTLY AT

> scout2001@mailandnews.com because my PDA can not check the newsgroup.



)So go to groups.google.com to see what's up. You post here, you read

)your reply here.



)Henriette



I notice the mailandnews email address, you (Scott) could also check the

newsgroups from http://mailandnews.com



Does the PDA have a Web browser?  What other Internet capabilities?



It's easy enough for me to convert this to an email message.  All I do is

replace the Newsgroups: line with a To: line, and save as a separate file.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Need help with Basil

From: "Denis Marier" <marierd@nbnet.nb.ca>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 20:50:34 GMT

--------

I not having good luck with indoor and outdoor basil plants.  It seems that

some insects are at work.

My two indoor plants are dying.  The leaves appears to have been bitten. by

some strange creatures.  I would appreciate help on this subject for now and

for future plants.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Need help with Basil

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 4 Nov 2001 01:47:36 GMT

--------



> I not having good luck with indoor and outdoor basil plants.  It seems

> that some insects are at work.

> My two indoor plants are dying.  The leaves appears to have been bitten

> by some strange creatures.



We haven't had any luck growing basil indoors either.  They just shrivel

up and die within weeks, even though the microclimate (warm kitchen)

shouldn't be any different from where I've seen them happily growing in

Turkey.



Are they sensitive to natural gas?



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Need help with Basil

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 5 Nov 2001 08:49:20 GMT

--------

> I not having good luck with indoor and outdoor basil plants.  It seems

> that some insects are at work.

> My two indoor plants are dying.  The leaves appears to have been bitten

> by some strange creatures.



)We haven't had any luck growing basil indoors either.  They just shrivel

)up and die within weeks, even though the microclimate (warm kitchen)

)shouldn't be any different from where I've seen them happily growing in

)Turkey.



)Are they sensitive to natural gas?



)========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

)Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760



From my experience, plants tend to grow much more vigorously outdoors than in

the kitchen, living room or bedroom.  Plants also tend to grow more vigorously

in a greenhouse than in a (dwelling) house.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Need help with Basil

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 07:19:56 -0700

--------

"Denis Marier" <marierd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:



>I not having good luck with indoor and outdoor basil plants.  It seems that

>some insects are at work.

>My two indoor plants are dying.  The leaves appears to have been bitten. by

>some strange creatures.  I would appreciate help on this subject for now and

>for future plants.



  Can you describe the bites?  



two teeny puncture marks on the main vein of the leaf are the

scarce Vampirus basilicus and need a garlic spray





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Need help with Basil

From: "Lili" <jaroen@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 00:41:46 GMT

--------

hello denis, i am a newbie in the world of herbs but have had astounding

luck with 'siam queen' basil. it's hard to imagine a hardier plant. i am in

north carolina and it has yet to get very cold but mine are still blooming

so i have hopes they will last the winter. if you are in california ( ? ),

the oriental grocers should sell seed packets. i have found my thai

varieties of vegetable etc. to by extremely hardy. and i have grown almost

all from seeds.

"Denis Marier" <marierd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

news:uMYE7.8789$R%6.1243585@news-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...

> I not having good luck with indoor and outdoor basil plants.  It seems

that

> some insects are at work.

> My two indoor plants are dying.  The leaves appears to have been bitten.

by

> some strange creatures.  I would appreciate help on this subject for now

and

> for future plants.

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Need help with Basil

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 7 Nov 2001 09:32:34 GMT

--------

from "Lili" <jaroen@worldnet.att.net>:



>hello denis, i am a newbie in the world of herbs but have had astounding

>luck with 'siam queen' basil. it's hard to imagine a hardier plant. i am in

>north carolina and it has yet to get very cold but mine are still blooming

>so i have hopes they will last the winter. if you are in california ( ? ),

>the oriental grocers should sell seed packets. i have found my thai

>varieties of vegetable etc. to by extremely hardy. and i have grown almost

>all from seeds.



What part of NC are you in?  Some parts of NC had below freezing last Oct 28.

Basil is an annual, not winter-hardy.  I have seen basil knocked off by frost

at 31 F.  Some ornamental or wild basils might be a little hardier.  I don't

know about all basils, but some, at least, come back in subsequent years by

reseeding.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Need help with Basil

From: derwyn <ynerbyn@bo.m>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:20:05 +1300

--------

Thai Basil is easier than sweet basil. Both love full sun and lots of

water as well as moving air. The best place is in a tunnel house with

one open wall. The warmer the better. Aphids are a problem when the

plants are too dry. If you pinch them out on first appearing the aphids

will die back. Pinch daily and water plenty. Sow in late spring after

frost danger is past.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: atrial fibrilation

From: impwwexp@aol.com (ImpWWExp)

Date: 03 Nov 2001 23:35:40 GMT

--------

Hi:

I have atrial fibrilation.  It occurs once/twice a week and it usually lasts

24-48 hours.  I take a lot of herbal medicines such as Hawthorne, Taurine,

CoQ10, Magnesium, Calcium, Natural Blood Thinners, Vitamic C, and Ginkgo

Biloba.  Unfortunately, these "medicines" do not seem to be helping me and have

no effect on my condition.  I wanted to know what you can recommend for me

because I am suffering constantly with this disorder.

I also heard about the PACEMAKER.  I was wondering how it works, and if its

helpful.  How long do people live after the insertion of the pacemaker?  Maybe

you know of a doctor who specializes in this field, in NY.  Are there any

complications that can arise during or after the insertion of pacemaker?

Thank you,

Julia





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: atrial fibrilation

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 19:10:49 -0600

--------

On 03 Nov 2001 23:35:40 GMT, impwwexp@aol.com (ImpWWExp) wrote:



>Hi:

>I have atrial fibrilation.  It occurs once/twice a week and it usually lasts

>24-48 hours.  I take a lot of herbal medicines such as Hawthorne, Taurine,

>CoQ10, Magnesium, Calcium, Natural Blood Thinners, Vitamic C, and Ginkgo

>Biloba.  Unfortunately, these "medicines" do not seem to be helping me and have

>no effect on my condition.  I wanted to know what you can recommend for me

>because I am suffering constantly with this disorder.

>I also heard about the PACEMAKER.  I was wondering how it works, and if its

>helpful.  How long do people live after the insertion of the pacemaker?  Maybe

>you know of a doctor who specializes in this field, in NY.  Are there any

>complications that can arise during or after the insertion of pacemaker?

>Thank you,

>Julia



I'm trying to stay calm.  But.  Please stop all the herbs and whatnot

and go see a cardiac specialist.  You may or may not need a pacemaker.

You do need a doctor.  Pacemakers work fine.  Most people live a lot

longer after getting one than they would have without one.  Of course

there are complications that can arise.  But one of the complications

of not getting one can be painful death.  Not that you necessarily

need a pacemaker.  You need an M. D. who specializes in heart

problems.  He / she will diagnose you and treat you.



Well, you could keep on with the calcium (as long as it's not

'natural' calcium, IMO) and the CoQ10.  The rest of those things can,

as you've self diagnosed, have an effect on your heart.  Since you

seem to have self diagnosed, they may even be making your heart go

into fibrillation (if that's really what it's doing and it's not just

something that feels like fib to you) more than it otherwise would.



When you see the doctor, (soon, I hope) you can ask her / him if any /

all of the herbs are okay for you to take.



-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: atrial fibrilation

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 07:24:03 -0700

--------

impwwexp@aol.com (ImpWWExp) wrote:



>Hi:

>I have atrial fibrilation.  It occurs once/twice a week and it usually lasts

>24-48 hours.  I take a lot of herbal medicines such as Hawthorne, Taurine,

>CoQ10, Magnesium, Calcium, Natural Blood Thinners, Vitamic C, and Ginkgo

>Biloba.  Unfortunately, these "medicines" do not seem to be helping me and have

>no effect on my condition.  I wanted to know what you can recommend for me

>because I am suffering constantly with this disorder.



  Have you considered that they may be making things worse? What

kind of medical care are you under? 



>I also heard about the PACEMAKER.  I was wondering how it works, and if its

>helpful.  How long do people live after the insertion of the pacemaker? 



  Most people survive years!  VP Dick Cheney just got one.  Ask

your doctor abouit a referral to a cardiac specialist.  There may

be drugs that can get it under control, or it might need a

pacemaker. 



  Yes there are complications possible, but untreated atrial

fibrillation can be fatal.  Any one of these episodes could kill

you.









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: atrial fibrilation

From: roseann1120@yahoo.com (roseann)

Date: 6 Nov 2001 12:08:04 -0800

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<cljaut405ou1h5of7tetorafvum8hmak51@4ax.com>...

> impwwexp@aol.com (ImpWWExp) wrote:

> 

> >Hi:

> >I have atrial fibrilation.  It occurs once/twice a week and it usually lasts

> >24-48 hours.  I take a lot of herbal medicines such as Hawthorne, Taurine,

> >CoQ10, Magnesium, Calcium, Natural Blood Thinners, Vitamic C, and Ginkgo

> >Biloba.  Unfortunately, these "medicines" do not seem to be helping me and have

> >no effect on my condition.  I wanted to know what you can recommend for me

> >because I am suffering constantly with this disorder.

> 

>   Have you considered that they may be making things worse? What

> kind of medical care are you under? 

> 

> >I also heard about the PACEMAKER.  I was wondering how it works, and if its

> >helpful.  How long do people live after the insertion of the pacemaker? 

> 

>   Most people survive years!  VP Dick Cheney just got one.  Ask

> your doctor abouit a referral to a cardiac specialist.  There may

> be drugs that can get it under control, or it might need a

> pacemaker. 

> 

>   Yes there are complications possible, but untreated atrial

> fibrillation can be fatal.  Any one of these episodes could kill

> you.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Tsu Dho Nimh

> 

> A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





Hi-My spouse had cardiac bypass in Jan. Since them he has infrequent

bouts ao atrial fibrillation. I will quote from a pamplet on the

condition that he was given in cardiac rehab. Treatment

option-stimulate the vagus nerve by placing your hand on your stomach

and press down lightly. Use your stomach muscles to resist the

pressure as much as you can. I agree with the above posts to seek

medicial attention as soon as you can.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: atrial fibrilation

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:50:35 GMT

--------

On 03 Nov 2001 23:35:40 GMT, impwwexp@aol.com (ImpWWExp) wrote:



>Hi:

>I have atrial fibrilation.  It occurs once/twice a week and it usually lasts

>24-48 hours.  I take a lot of herbal medicines such as Hawthorne, Taurine,

>CoQ10, Magnesium, Calcium, Natural Blood Thinners, Vitamic C, and Ginkgo

>Biloba.  Unfortunately, these "medicines" do not seem to be helping me and have

>no effect on my condition.  I wanted to know what you can recommend for me

>because I am suffering constantly with this disorder.

>I also heard about the PACEMAKER.  I was wondering how it works, and if its

>helpful.  How long do people live after the insertion of the pacemaker?  Maybe

>you know of a doctor who specializes in this field, in NY.  Are there any

>complications that can arise during or after the insertion of pacemaker?

>Thank you,

>Julia



Atrial fibrilation can be caused also by food and environmental

allergies/sensitivitiee.  Sherry Rogers, M.D. talks of this a lot in

her books. 



I do NOT agree with Tsh about allowing a cardiologist to insert a pace

maker unless it is a LAST resort. Before I  would ever allow a doctor

to insert a permanent pacemaker in me if I had the problem, I would

see an Environmental Medicine specialist.   I assume you were

diagnosed by a physician with atrial fibriation as otherwise you might

not be using the term.



Personally I don't see where the herbs you are taking would aggrevate

the condition (although they certainly MIGHT) but they wouldn't help

either. Why would you assume herbal blood thinners would help?  Some

of the supplements you mention are used for heart conditions but they

also wouldn't necessarily be specific for Atrial fibrilation either.



 I certainly think any doctor should know about the herbs and

supplements you are taking as well, assuming they know anything about

herbs.



You can locate an Environmental Medicine Physican in your area by

going to



http://www.aaem.com



Hope this helps.



Linda N





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

From: markdgold@aol.com (Mark Gold)

Date: 3 Nov 2001 18:39:52 -0800

--------

deepbluedrag0n@aol.com (DeepBlueDrag0n) wrote in message news:<20011028174137.16142.00000361@mb-cr.aol.com>...

> hello

> does anyone know of anything that will help with carpal tunnel syndrome?

> I have a friend who is pregnant and the doctor has said there is nothing

> he can give her and that she should maybe look into

> massage/aromatherapy/herbal remedies. It is causing her a great deal of

> discomfort at the moment .. and any suggestions would be welcome :O)



[Note: Sorry if this is a duplicate message. My ISP's news server is down.]



Chris,



I sounds like your friend has an open-minded healthcare practitioner.

I've read about quite a number of successful CTS treatments on the Net

over the years. I think it is more a matter of what your friend is willing

(or has the energy) to try.



In my mind, it is simply common sense to remove as many factors as

possible that can be contributing factors to the situation.  Not

considering the removal of contributing factors can make healing slow

going in my experience. Here are a few to consider (that you may not have

thought of):



1.  Fluoride compounds - They promote the formation of apatite crystals

that can predispose a person to developing and significantly worsen

RSI/CTS. Please go to the following web page:



http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/

(note the spelling of *fluoride*)



and read through if you like, but click on Item #11 to read some excerpts

from the New Zealand Medical Journal about RSI / CTS. Notice that the

improvement involved elimination of fluoride sources *and* supplementation

with Mg++. Magnesium helps in a number of ways as it binds with the

fluoride and magnesium can help with pain because it helps reduce the

effect of endogenous and exogenous excitotoxins.  Eliminating fluoride is

a bit tricky since it involves the use of *spring* water (not just bottled

water) for cooking and drinking (note: carbon filters do not eliminate

fluoride) and the avoidance of green / black tea, commercial sodas, and

mechanically-boned chicken preparations (to name a few things). Also, any

supplementation with magnesium should be discussed with the healthcare

practitioner. Finally, fluoride accumulates in the body over the years, so

it may take some time for the body to eliminate it.



2. All excitotoxins should be avoided where possible. They have the effect

of increasing pain and inflammation in most cases. In fact, animals are

sometimes given excitotoxins in animal experiments to increase pain and

inflammation. This includes:



a) aspartame -- which is basically a slow poison as recent research in

Europe has shown ingestion to lead to the accumulation of formaldehyde in

the liver, kidneys, brain, and other organs and tissues. In addition, it

breaks down into an excitotoxin which can also increase pain and

inflammation (especially from long-term use). I suppose that is why

research this year on patients with FMS showed that eliminating

excitotoxins (especially aspartame) eliminated or significantly reduced

symptoms. More information at:



http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/summary.html



b) MSG (monosodium glutamate, hydrolyzed proteins, autolyzed yeast, yeast

extract, and in junk/grocery food stores it is sometimes seen as "natural

flavors" on the label). Of course, it can be counterproductive to try to

be perfect in avoiding MSG, but reduction of MSG exposure can help. Please

note that it can be found in some restaurant foods (e.g., Chinese

restaurants, KFC).



c) cysteine -- Often mixed with flour at cheap bakeries.



d) free-form amino acids -- aspartic acid, glutamic acid, and cysteine --

in supplements. Also, many supplements and drugs (OTC, prescription)

contain aspartame in the inactive ingredients.



3) Stress -- It will be much easier for the body to heal if the body and

mind are relaxed to a reasonable extent. Simple yoga stretches, meditation

classes, massage, taking fun breaks from work to relax the eyes,

shoulders, neck, spine, etc.  can all help over time.



4) Activities that directly cause pain.



As far as ideas to directly treat the pain:



A) I am partial to breathing and/or inner body awareness meditations like

Vivation or similar modalities since they can eliminate the sense of pain

at the source (in one sense) fairly quickly. See: www.vivation.com

for example. The healing using a technique such as this will generally be

quicker, deeper, and more likely to be permanent.



B) The following is an old, but very useful article that first appeared (I

believe) on the C+Health mailing list related to RSI/CTS. It contains some

useful ideas for treatment:



http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/project/atic/techinfo/oth

er/carpel_tunnel_discussion

(Note that web page is split into two lines)



Another good article by the same author can be found here:



ftp://ftp.cs.princeton.edu/pub/typing-injury/amt.advice





C) Here are three good web pages from the excellent LA RSI Support Group.

The first two web pages are success stories. The third page goes over

treatment options.



http://www.geocities.com/la_rsi/stories.html

http://www.geocities.com/la_rsi/erikstry.html



http://www.geocities.com/la_rsi/treatmnt.html



D) If your friend really wants to do "a bit more" on the healing part,

some of the Ayurvedic and lifestyle suggestions in the book, "The Key to

Health and Rejuventation" by Andreas Moritz (www.1stbooks.com) can be very

helpful. However, some of the self-help programs mentioned in the book

should wait until after pregnancy.



I hope this helps.



Best Wishes,



                           Mark Gold

                Holistic Medicine Resource Center

                    12 East Side Dr., #2-18

                        Concord, NH 03301



                          603-225-2110

                      mgold@HolisticMed.Com

                   http://www.HolisticMed.Com/





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 02:58:54 -0500

--------

The only thing worse than the *International Fluoride Conspiracy* is the

*International Anti-Fluoride Conspiracy*.   =)



What bothers me about this anti-fluoride suggestion for CTS-pregnancy, is

that the one time that -ingested- fluoride may actually be useful is

during fetal tooth bud development. 



From the last time I waded into this anti-fluoride quagmire, IIRC after

pregnancy, fluoride is only useful when directly applied to teeth. I could

be wrong, since both sides seem to exaggerate their case, which makes the

facts really hard to determine. 



"Mark Gold" <markdgold@aol.com> wrote in message

news:cf83c668.0111031839.33ab0a6a@posting.google.com...

> 1.  Fluoride compounds - They promote the formation of apatite crystals

> that can predispose a person to developing and significantly worsen

> RSI/CTS. Please go to the following web page:

> [snip]

> [...] click on Item #11 to read some excerpts

> from the New Zealand Medical Journal about RSI / CTS. 



http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/rsi.htm

"Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI) and Magnesium and Fluoride Intake"

G.E. Smith 

New Zealand Medical Journal, 98:556-557, 1985



My reading of Smith, 1985 is that the well-known and wide spread

nutritional deficiency of magnesium may have yet another form in RSI. The

role of fluoride and apatite crystals in RSI as stated by Dr. Smith in his

study and followup letter is -mostly- speculative. From Smith's letter,

New Zealand Medical Journal, Aug 28, 1985: "Therefore, it is *conceivable*

that some cases of RSI might result from deposition of apatite crystals in

and around synovial sheaths and tendons passing through the carpal

tunnel." (emphasis mine)



Check the conditions which correlate with CTS; they include known hormone

change (pregnancy) or hormone deficiency conditions: menopause,

hypothyroidism, and diabetes mellitus (and interestingly, Raynaud's

disease). Unbalanced nutrition (e.g., magnesium deficiency) always makes

things worse. My guess is that ordinary levels of fluoride would be

unnoticeably tolerated in the presence of adequate magnesium.



I have a friend who only drank unfluoridated water as a child. After

public water was fluoridated, she drank milk instead. Later she drank

distilled water for 25 years, and took 2:1 calcium-magnesium supplements

for 25 years. She had never used fluoridated toothpaste, ever. She worked

as a data entry clerk part time, and eventually developed RSI in her mid

thirties. Due to months of rest every year she was able to continue this

work for another seven years. But by her early 40's she had to quit.

(Curiously, she ate daily candy as a child, brushed her teeth once before

bedtime, yet has never had any cavities. But, aha, she has taken

supplemental vitamins nearly every day of her life; including 10 years of

"Perx" as a child, a multi-vit possibly recommended by Consumer Reports.) 



It would be very hard to argue that her RSI had -anything- to do with

fluoride, or for that matter with magnesium deficiency. More likely the

usual suspects-- age related decrease in hormones. 





And, BTW, based on the fluoride-enzyme-poisoning theory (if serum fluoride

concentration rises above 0.5 ppm) I stopped using fluoride toothpaste for

baking soda a couple of years ago to see if my fibromyalgia syndrome

(probably includes general low enzymes) would get any better. It didn't,

but three months later my teeth began to hurt probably due to enamel

microporosis. I went back to fluoride paste and my teeth are ok now. 



Sean

---





"Mark Gold" <markdgold@aol.com> wrote in message

news:cf83c668.0111031839.33ab0a6a@posting.google.com...

> deepbluedrag0n@aol.com (DeepBlueDrag0n) wrote in message

news:<20011028174137.16142.00000361@mb-cr.aol.com>...

> > does anyone know of anything that will help with carpal tunnel

> > syndrome? I have a friend who is pregnant and the doctor has

> > said there is nothing he can give her and that she should maybe

> > look into massage/aromatherapy/herbal remedies. It is causing

> > her a great deal of discomfort at the moment .. and any

> > suggestions would be welcome :O)

[snip]

> 1.  Fluoride compounds - They promote the formation of apatite crystals

> that can predispose a person to developing and significantly worsen

> RSI/CTS. Please go to the following web page:

> 

> http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/

> (note the spelling of *fluoride*)

> 

> and read through if you like, but click on Item #11 to read some

excerpts

> from the New Zealand Medical Journal about RSI / CTS. 



http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/rsi.htm



> Notice that the improvement involved elimination of fluoride

> sources *and* supplementation with Mg++. Magnesium helps in a

> number of ways as it binds with the fluoride and magnesium can

> help with pain because it helps reduce the effect of endogenous

> and exogenous excitotoxins.  Eliminating fluoride is a bit

> tricky since it involves the use of *spring* water (not just

> bottled water) for cooking and drinking (note: carbon filters do

> not eliminate fluoride) and the avoidance of green / black tea,

> commercial sodas, and mechanically-boned chicken preparations

> (to name a few things). Also, any supplementation with magnesium

> should be discussed with the healthcare practitioner. Finally,

> fluoride accumulates in the body over the years, so it may take

> some time for the body to eliminate it.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

From: "Mark Gold" <markdgold@mediaone.net>

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 20:02:39 GMT

--------

> From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

> Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

>

>>   http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/rsi.htm

>

> The only thing worse than the *International Fluoride Conspiracy* is the

> *International Anti-Fluoride Conspiracy*.   =)



Hi!



It is not about anti- or pro- this or that. It is simply about the

scientific evidence that fluoride exposure and accumulation is linked to

the development of RSI / CTS for some people. The subjects in the

experiment with RSI had a higher fluoride intake and higher levels of

fluoride deposited in the bone. (Fluoride accumulates in the brain,

kidneys, bone, and other organs and tissues and tends to be eliminated

much slower than it is stored if it is ingested regularly.)  While the

researcher was not sure of the exact mechanism, it was clear that 1) the

persons with RSI had a greater fluoride intake, 2) the persons with RSI

had a greater buildup of fluoride in the bone, and 3) elimination of

fluoride and supplementation with magnesium (for six weeks) lead to a

market relief in symptoms in 3/4 of the subjects.



> What bothers me about this anti-fluoride suggestion for CTS-pregnancy,

> is that the one time that -ingested- fluoride may actually be useful is

> during fetal tooth bud development.



Fluoride ingestion has not been shown to be useful during pregnancy for

long-term tooth health. On the other hand, several years ago, research

conducted at the Toxicology Department of the Forsythe Dental Center and

published in Neurotoxicology and Teratology (17(2):169-77, 1995) showed that

exposure to relatively low levels of fluoride during pregnancy led to

adverse effects on the brain of offspring. The effects of fluoride on the

brain was later confirmed by a neuroscientist and published in Brain

Research Vol. 784 No. 12 p 284-298 (1998). These studies were conducted by

toxicologists and neuroscientists (not dentists and immunologists -- who

have great expertise, but not in the field of toxicology). The toxicologist

who conducted the first study

mentioned above was kind enough to make a presentation to one of my

discussion groups online and answer questions:



http://www.holisticmed.com/add/mullenix.html



> New Zealand Medical Journal, Aug 28, 1985: "Therefore, it is

> *conceivable* that some cases of RSI might result from deposition of

> apatite crystals in and around synovial sheaths and tendons passing

> through the carpal tunnel." (emphasis mine)



He was speculating on the *mechanism* of why fluoride contributed to RSI

in some of the subjects. He mentioned other mechanism possibilities as

well. However, the evidence showed a fluoride accumulation and elimination

of fluoride helped removed symptoms in most of the subjects.



Here is another article is you're interested in reading more about RSI and

apatite crystal buildup:



"Carpal tunnel syndrome associated with mixed calcium pyrophosphate

dihydrate and apatite crystal deposition in tendon synovial sheath."

Lagier R, Boivin G, Gerster JC

Arthritis Rheum 1984 Oct;27(10):1190-5



Here is another study linking the amount of sulfuryl fluoride exposure at

work

to high rates of carpal tunnel syndrome:



"Health effects associated with sulfuryl fluoride and methyl bromide

exposure among structural fumigation workers."

Calvert GM, Mueller CA, Fajen JM, Chrislip DW, Russo J, Briggle T, Fleming

LE, Suruda AJ, Steenland K.

Am J Public Health 1998 Dec;88(12):1774-80



There are also more case reports in the literature related to RSI and

apatite crystal deposits.



Of course, I'm not saying that fluoride exposure is the only contributing

factor to developing RSI / CTS.



> It would be very hard to argue that her RSI had -anything- to do with

> fluoride, or for that matter with magnesium deficiency. More likely the

> usual suspects-- age related decrease in hormones.



Every case is different. But from a holistic perspective and in this case

from a scientific perspective I think it is useful to remove factors that

have been shown to contribute to RSI in some cases (and are known to other

harmful effects) in addition to taking positive steps to heal. Removal of

fluoride exposure was healing or prevention of RSI / CTS was just one

relatively small, but important part of the ideas I presented. That's the

way I look at it.



Best Wishes,



                           Mark Gold

                Holistic Medicine Resource Center

                    12 East Side Dr., #2-18

                        Concord, NH 03301



                          603-225-2110

                      mgold@HolisticMed.Com

                   http://www.HolisticMed.Com/











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 02:08:22 -0500

--------

You seem like a nice guy, and I am sure that you mean well. I also think

you are chasing an RSI/CTS fluoride chimera. 



IMHO, mechanical relief plus optimal nutrition and herbal/pharma hormone

boosting is the best set of cures for CTS.





"Mark Gold" <markdgold@mediaone.net> wrote in message

news:z9hF7.5455$kw.2155047@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...

> It is not about anti- or pro- this or that. It is simply about

> the scientific evidence that fluoride exposure and accumulation

> is linked to the development of RSI / CTS for some people.



Even though you are right on some points, you presented your initial

scientific case so poorly that I am left with the impression that you are

unintentionally wasting my time. For example:



1) Your posted link to <http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/> contains two

links which caused my eyes to roll up (metaphorically, anyway). 



The first eye-roller link is "Fluoridation Does Not Prevent Tooth Decay". 

Now if that is not an 'anti'-fluoride claim, I don't know what is. Of all

the cases that there are to be made against fluoride, that is the -very

weakest- case. After all, observation of low caries incidence in natural

fluoridated water areas was what led to the international water

fluoridation programs. Citing one good but perverse study doesn't prove

much when there are two dozen other good studies which conclude the

opposite. (Junk science is a tougher call, but one also should avoid

citing a bunch of weak studies to counter a few excellent ones.) 



The second eye-roller is your link to the opinion of an author who's books

I bought and promptly recycled due to his being 'information challenged'.

Sorry, but for me this immediately ranks any of your opinions as less

likely, due to the secondary sources with which you keep company. 



2) You posted that we should click on link #11 which is:

http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/rsi.htm



Dr. Smith's modifiers referring to fluoride include "possibly", "may",

"could", and "might". In brief your reported case for fluoride aggravation

of CTS/RSI is based on Dr. Smith's guesses, assumptions, or speculations.

I think this is not good science reporting.



> He was speculating on the *mechanism* of why fluoride

> contributed to RSI in some of the subjects. He mentioned other

> mechanism possibilities as well. However, the evidence showed a

> fluoride accumulation and elimination of fluoride helped removed

> symptoms in most of the subjects.



I see no need for Smith, 1985, to have focused on fluoride. Normal daily

magnesium intake is on the order of 600 times the mass of typical daily

fluoride intake.  That gives me some reason to think that magnesium

supplements alone would have pushed out the excess fluoride (albeit slower

than also cutting fluoride intake). Occam's Razor applies here: why

postulate a more complicated explanation than a simple magnesium

deficiency? 



Then there's the older study problem. In 1985, Dr. Smith didn't seem to

know how much fluoride is good for bones. The following 1992 rat study

provides at least some numerical data, and also provides some further

evidence that fluoride may be a (optional?) nutrient:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1613632&dopt=Abstract

"The effects of fluoridated water on bone strength."

Turner CH, Akhter MP, Heaney RP.

Orthopaedic Surgery Department, Indiana University, Indianapolis 46202.

J Orthop Res 1992 Jul;10(4):581-7 



"Bone strength followed a biphasic relationship with bone fluoride

content. Fluoride had a positive effect on bone strength for lower

fluoride intakes and a negative influence on bone strength for higher

fluoride intakes. [...] The optimal fluoride content is within the range

of bone fluoride contents found in persons living in regions with

fluoridated water (1 ppm) for greater than 10 years."



> Here is another article is you're interested in reading 

> more about RSI and apatite crystal buildup:

[...]

> Here is another study linking the amount of sulfuryl fluoride

> exposure at work to high rates of carpal tunnel syndrome:

[...]

> There are also more case reports in the literature related 

> to RSI and apatite crystal deposits.



So -now- you want me to examine other, better, links on fluoride CTS/RSI? 



Sorry, I just don't have the time. Without even realizing it you seem to

be doing a version of the anti-fluoride "laundry list" technique described

by Quackwatch: "List enough 'evils,' and even if proponents can reply to

some of them, they will never be able to cover the entire list." See:

<http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/fluoride.html>

(Disclaimer: I find Quackwatch to be useful, but highly biased against

traditional health practices or alternative medical innovation.)



> Fluoride ingestion has not been shown to be useful during 

> pregnancy for long-term tooth health.



I did find mainstream evidence that you are correct about this.  



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9165186&dopt=Abstract

"Randomized clinical trial of the effect of prenatal fluoride supplements

in preventing dental caries."

Leverett DH, Adair SM, Vaughan BW, Proskin HM, Moss ME.

Department of Pediatric Dentistry, School of Dentistry, Medical College of

Georgia, Augusta, USA.

Caries Res 1997;31(3):174-9 



In a fluoride-deficient water area, two mother-child groups were studied,

with and without daily fluoride tablets during the last six months of

pregnancy. Both treatment and control subjects were encouraged to use

postnatal dietary fluoride supplements. 92% of children remained

caries-free in the treatment group and 91% remained caries-free in the

placebo group. The difference was not statistically significant. 



The above single study is reinforced by the following multi-study review:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8327229&dopt=Abstract

"Prenatal fluoridation. A literature review."

Fassman DK.

N Y State Dent J 1993 Jun-Jul;59(6):47-51 

Comment in: 

N Y State Dent J. 1993 Nov;59(9):15 



"The anticariogenic effect of fluoride is well established. During the

past 40 years, numerous papers have been published verifying the efficacy

of fluoride in the reduction of dental caries postnatally. The benefit of

fluoride during pregnancy, however, has been seriously questioned. [...]"





> On the other hand, several years ago, research conducted at the

> Toxicology Department of the Forsythe Dental Center and

> published in Neurotoxicology and Teratology (17(2):169-77, 1995)

> showed that exposure to relatively low levels of fluoride during

> pregnancy led to adverse effects on the brain of offspring. The

> effects of fluoride on the brain was later confirmed by a

> neuroscientist and published in Brain Research Vol. 784 No. 12 p

> 284-298 (1998).



The problem with this whole fluoride brain damage idea is that naturally

fluoridated water is found in many places on earth. Thus we have to ask,

(jokes aside) why aren't people from certain naturally fluoridated and

over-fluoridated parts of Texas or Colorado or West Hartlepool, England

known to be mentally defective? 



Sean

---







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

From: "Mark Gold" <markdgold@mediaone.net>

Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:25:00 GMT

--------

> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

> From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

> Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

>

> You seem like a nice guy, and I am sure that you mean well. I also think

> you are chasing an RSI/CTS fluoride chimera.



Hi! I had a feeling you were working towards presenting quackwatch

"information" on fluoride. As much as I like to follow the "shennanigens"

of Dr. Barrett (lawsuits, attacks on alternative medicine practitioners,

new websites, etc.), I prefer to stick to getting information directly

from toxicologists, neuroscientists, and other scientists who are actually

working directly on the issue.



> 1) Your posted link to <http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/> contains

> two links which caused my eyes to roll up (metaphorically, anyway).

> The first eye-roller link is "Fluoridation Does Not Prevent Tooth

> Decay". Now if that is not an 'anti'-fluoride claim, I don't know what

> is.



However, much of the scientific community and even articles in the dental

trade journals are now admitting that it is the topical effects (e.g.,

toothpaste) of fluoride (not fluoride ingestion/fluoridation) that prevents

tooth decay. Every single scientist at the U.S. Evironmental Protection

Association's

(EPA) headquarters agreed and signed a statement that agrees with me and

many other scientists who have read the scientific literature. You can

read the statement from EPA *scientists* at:



http://www.fluoridation.com/epa2.htm



The above statement delves into other important research related to the

toxicity of fluoride exposure. EPA *scientists* are uniquely-qualified to

discuss fluoride toxicity since they include toxicologists, risk

assessment experts, and other qualified scientists *and* they have been

studying and following the science related to fluoride for quite a few

years.



Only some dentists, government *officials*, and perhaps quackwatch are

still dismissing the most recent scientific evidence. But even dentists are

very gradually beginning to admit that fluoridation does not prevent tooth

decay. That is why I present a detailed discussion of the research on that

page. I did

not see anything in your post that addressed any of the studies presented

on that web page.



Also, there are very effective natural alternatives to using fluoride

topically. That way one does not have to inevitably swallow some fluoride

from toothpaste in order to prevent cavaties. In order to bring the

discussion more back to natural healing and "herbs" I can share what I

have found and I'd like to hear what other persons have found as far as

using natural dental treatments.



> 2) You posted that we should click on link #11 which is:

> http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/rsi.htm



> Dr. Smith's modifiers referring to fluoride include "possibly", "may",

> "could", and "might". In brief your reported case for fluoride

> aggravation of CTS/RSI is based on Dr. Smith's guesses, assumptions, or

> speculations. I think this is not good science reporting.



Now you are simply choosing to ignore the evidence which was:



1) persons with RSI had greater intake of fluoride

2) persons with RSI had greater levels of fluoride deposits in their bone

3) 3/4 of the persons with RSI had significant improvement after both

eliminating fluoride and adding magnesium.



You are also not being quite accurate about Dr. Smith's wording since

all but one of those modifiers he used when discussing the *mechanism*

related to the development of RSI, but not whether fluoride contributed to

RSI. In addition, the study of fluoride-exposed workers showed increasing

incidence of carpal tunnel syndrome as fluoride exposure increased.



> I see no need for Smith, 1985, to have focused on fluoride. Normal daily

> magnesium intake is on the order of 600 times the mass of typical daily

> fluoride intake.  That gives me some reason to think that magnesium

> supplements alone would have pushed out the excess fluoride (albeit

> slower than also cutting fluoride intake). Occam's Razor applies here:

> why postulate a more complicated explanation than a simple magnesium

> deficiency?



Fluoride will continue to build up in the brain, kidenys, bone, etc.

unless intake is eliminated or significantly reduced. We know that Dr.

Smith's protocol of eliminating fluoride and supplementing magnesium

worked for 3/4 of the subjects.  It is just speculation as to whether

magnesium supplementation would have worked as well or at all with his

subjects. I think it is important to stick with a protocol that has been

shown to work.



> Then there's the older study problem. In 1985, Dr. Smith didn't seem to

> know how much fluoride is good for bones. The following 1992 rat study

> provides at least some numerical data, and also provides some further

> evidence that fluoride may be a (optional?) nutrient:



This study has absolutely nothing to do with fluoride's effects on RSI /

CTS or fluoride's effects on the brain, and does not even address the

numerous conflicting *human* studies related to fluoride and hip

fractures. The EPA scientists on the web page above do discuss fluoride

and bone effects, however -- including addressing more recent studies on

humans.



> The problem with this whole fluoride brain damage idea is that naturally

> fluoridated water is found in many places on earth. Thus we have to ask,

> (jokes aside) why aren't people from certain naturally fluoridated and

> over-fluoridated parts of Texas or Colorado or West Hartlepool, England

> known to be mentally defective?



Actually, only a small percentage of water has high levels of

naturally-occurring fluoride. There is some water in the world with very

high levels of arsenic or bacteria as well. Simply because some poisons

occur at high levels naturally does not make them any less dangerous.



One cannot easily study the effects of high levels of naturally-occurring

fluoride in the U.S. or U.K. because fluoride compounds are dumped into

water or fluoride levels are reduced depending upon the water concentration.

In addition, many foods and drinks are made with fluoridated water and

shipped into those areas. Additionally, there is widespread use of fluoride

compounds in farming and in the use of some prescription drugs. So, it is

almost impossible to create a control group in these countries.



We can get the best evidence of fluoride's effects on the brain

in animal studies and in studies on human populations outside of the U.S.

and U.K. Some studies on human populations have shown mental impairment

from fluoride exposure. However, studies on the effects of animals to

relatively low level fluoride exposure has shown damage to brain tissue

and behavioral problems (similar to AD(H)D). Clinical studies have shown

fluoride can depress thyroid function and animal and human studies have

shown fluoride accumulating in the pineal gland. One study showed adverse

effects on melatonin production.



Best regards,



- Mark

  mgold@shelltown.net











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 04:38:01 -0500

--------

The summary of this post can be seen in a single amazing data line graph

at:

http://www.fluoridation.com/colquhoun.htm#Fig%201



"Mark Gold" <markdgold@mediaone.net> wrote in message

news:0OtF7.6097$kw.2419125@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...

> [...] much of the scientific community and even articles in

> the dental trade journals are now admitting that it is the

> topical effects (e.g., toothpaste) of fluoride (not fluoride

> ingestion/fluoridation) that prevents tooth decay. Every single

> scientist at the U.S. Evironmental Protection Association's

> (EPA) headquarters agreed and signed a statement that agrees

> with me and many other scientists who have read the scientific

> literature. You can read the statement from EPA *scientists* at:

> http://www.fluoridation.com/epa2.htm



(sigh) When you claim the great numbers of authorities as above ("Every

single scientist ... signed a statement"), I wish you wouldn't make me

chase the citation. The actual statement at the bottom of

<www.fluoridation.com/epa2.htm> is: "This document was prepared on behalf

of the National Treasury Employees Union [NTEU] Chapter 280 by Chapter

Senior Vice-President J. William Hirzy, Ph.D."



But {non carborundum annoyancimi} onward--



> You can read the statement from EPA *scientists* at:

> http://www.fluoridation.com/epa2.htm



This document is interesting, but it's still an anti-fluoride laundry

list. It's a much higher quality laundry list than most, but while it

makes me concerned about fluoride effects in general, it doesn't

sufficiently persuade me on the central issues. 



However, they (NTEU) cited an "especially important" publication which I

could and did read on-web: "Dr. Colquhoun was Principal Dental Officer for

Auckland, the largest city in New Zealand, and a staunch supporter of

fluoridation - until he was given the task of looking at the world-wide

data on fluoridation's effectiveness in preventing cavities. The paper is

titled, "Why I changed My Mind About Water Fluoridation." In it Colquhoun

provides details on how data were manipulated to support fluoridation in

English speaking countries, especially the U.S. and New Zealand." 



http://www.fluoridation.com/colquhoun.htm

"Why I changed my mind about water fluoridation." 

Colquhoun, J. 

Perspectives in Biol. And Medicine 41 29-44 (1997)."



Dr. Colquhoun's research is summarized in Fig. 1, which can be seen here:

http://www.fluoridation.com/colquhoun.htm#Fig%201

"50-year decline in tooth decay of 5-year-olds [1930-1990]"



Dr. Colquhoun: "At first I thought, with my colleagues, that other uses of

fluoride must have been the main cause of the decline in tooth decay

throughout the western world. But what came to worry me about that

argument was the fact that, in the nonfluoridated part of my city, where

decay had also declined dramatically, very few children used fluoride

toothpaste, many had not received fluoride applications to their teeth,

and hardly any had been given fluoride tablets. So I obtained the national

figures on tooth decay rates of five-year-olds from our dental clinics

which had served large numbers of these children from the 1930s on [18].

They show that tooth decay had started to decline well before we had

started to use fluorides (Fig. 1). Also, the decline has continued after

all children had received fluoride all their lives, so the continuing

decline could not be because of fluoride. The fewer figures available for

older children are consistent with the above pattern of decline [18]. So

fluorides, while possibly contributing, could not be the main cause of the

reduction in tooth decay.



"So what did cause this decline, which we find in most industrialized

countries? I do not know the answer for sure, but we do know that after

the second world war there was a rise in the standard of living of many

people. In my country there has been a tremendous increase in the

consumption of fresh fruit and vegetables since the 1930s, assisted by the

introduction of household refrigerators [19]. ... These nutritional

changes, accompanied by a continuing decline in tooth decay, started

before the introduction of fluorides. ... The increase in tooth decay in

third-world countries, much of which has been attributed to worsening

nutrition [22], lends support to the argument that improved nutrition in

developed countries contributed to improved dental health."





Sean's Personal Fluoride FAQ:



So am I ready to vote for removal of artificial water fluoridation? 

I think so.

Do I think there's a fluoride cause of -many- diseases, including CTS? 

Not yet.

Does ingesting 1 ppm of it cause -some- diseases (other than fluorosis)? 

Maybe.

Am I personally concerned about it?

No, because I've been drinking distilled water plus daily minerals for a

decade, which gets rid of fluorine, chlorine, arsenic, and industrial

pollution.

Do I think water fluoridation is a communist conspiracy?

No, years ago they gave that franchise to multinational corporations.   :)



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome

From: "Mark Gold" <markdgold@mediaone.net>

Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:35:47 GMT

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote in message

news:Pine.LNX.3.96.1011106034948.15385A-100000@ASARian.org...



 > (sigh) When you claim the great numbers of authorities as above ("Every

> single scientist ... signed a statement"), I wish you wouldn't make me

> chase the citation. The actual statement at the bottom of

> <www.fluoridation.com/epa2.htm> is: "This document was prepared on behalf

> of the National Treasury Employees Union [NTEU] Chapter 280 by Chapter

> Senior Vice-President J. William Hirzy, Ph.D."



Hi!  Sorry about that.  The statement was prepared by Dr. William Hirzy of

the EPA, but he worked on the scientific issues with other EPA scientists.

All of the EPA scientists and professionals met, were given scientific

presentations and voted unanimously on the issues pertaining to fluoride. No

one videotaped the meeting for proof, but there are news articles from 1999

on the web that should provide confirmation. In one of the statements from

the EPA union they said:



"Our members review of the body of evidence over the last eleven years,

including animal and human epidemiology studies, indicate a causal link

between fluoride/fluoridation and cancer, genetic damage, neurological

impairment, and bone pathology. Of particular concern are recent

epidemiology studies linking fluoride exposure to lowered IQ in children. As

the professionals who are charged with assessing the safety of drinking

water, we concluded that the health and welfare of the public is not served

by the addition of this substance to the public water supply." [Note: The

statements appears in news articles and should be able to be found by simple

web searches.] [Note2: Dr. Hirzy once told a group at a presentation that

the EPA union (for scientists and professionals) was created, in part, to

keep the scientists from being forced by politically-appointed EPA officials

to make inaccurate scientific statements.]



You may be interested to see what was said recently by Dr. Hardy Limeback,

the President of the Canadian Association for Dental Research and advisor to

the Canadian Dental Association. It marks the start of the end of

fluoridation in Canada:



http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/3/fluoride_forbes.htm





Cordially,



- Mark









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What herbs to help from getting anthrax in the first place

From: vassago954@cs.comlikwid (Vassago954)

Date: 04 Nov 2001 07:08:47 GMT

--------

>Subject: Re: What herbs to help from getting anthrax in the first place

>From: bingo@rosenet.net  (Gene & Jayne Freadman)

>Date: 10/24/01 1:26 AM Eastern Standard Time

>Message-id: <bingo-2310012326020001@dialup-225.rosenet.net>

>

>In article <3BD2A886.B967B4D@lockhavenonline.com>, taschlauch

><taschlauch@lockhavenonline.com> wrote:

>

>> Ok so herbs may or may not kill anthrax after getting it , but it very

>> well may help from getting it in the first palce.

>

>GARLIC LOOKS LIKE A REAL GOOD BET.

>

>I have taken a spoon full almost every day for a few years for general

>good health but - A MODERN HERBAL  by Mrs. M . Grieve- says Garlic was

>often used to prevent anthrax in cattle, that it was the principle

>ingredient in Four Thiefs Viniger to ward off the plague, that it was

>belived to have benefical results in case of smallpox ect..

>

>

*****

Research Oregeno essential oil.  It kills most things, inhibits growth of a lot

of viral infections, bacteria; poss. biologicals.

  I use it as a room spray when sickness afoot or suspected.  White Thyme also

works well; but oregeno is the most promising.  So, if you are deeply concerned

with preventing pathogens from creeping up your nostrils-keep some on hand as

well as a good quality facial mask. Worst case scenario, you'll be possibly

prepared and smell edible.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic as a male contraceptive pill?

From: Rod Ellingham <rodz@zetnet.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 11:08:20 GMT

--------

Hereabouts we use a clove of garlic as a male contraceptive pill.

You don't eat it, you just put in in your sock and it makes you limp.........

Rod E









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic as a male contraceptive pill?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 20:41:45 +0200

--------

Rod Ellingham <rodz@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:



> Hereabouts we use a clove of garlic as a male contraceptive pill.

> You don't eat it, you just put in in your sock and it makes you limp.........



Ow wow wow.



Tell me, how long have you waited for a chance to say that?



Henriette (Oh, and AHBOU.)



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Garlic as a male contraceptive pill?

From: Rod Ellingham <rodz@zetnet.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:16:39 GMT

--------



> > Hereabouts we use a clove of garlic as a male contraceptive pill.

> > You don't eat it, you just put in in your sock and it makes you limp.........



> Ow wow wow.



> Tell me, how long have you waited for a chance to say that?



> Henriette (Oh, and AHBOU.)



> -- 

> hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

> Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



*Oh, ages, I was waiting till the time was ripe.  Hope Helsinki's OK 

BTW, I was there a few times, mainly on way to Estonia.

never seen so many chantarelles for sale as at the Helsinki market.

Ahbou? Gle mhath!

Rod









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbal Tx for Asthmatics?

From: "Crystal Lynne" <x_x@in-orbit.com>

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:11:36 -0700

--------

Anybody had success using herbs to treat/control asthmatic conditions?

I am particularly interested in something that could be used in lieu of an

inhaler/pharmaceutical during an attack...



Thanx,



Crystal Lynne









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Tx for Asthmatics?

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 04:39:17 -0700

--------

"Crystal Lynne" <x_x@in-orbit.com> wrote:



>Anybody had success using herbs to treat/control asthmatic conditions?

>I am particularly interested in something that could be used in lieu of an

>inhaler/pharmaceutical during an attack...



Just a different way of delivering the drug:  teas madewith

Ephedra sinensis (basically ephedrine)can be sipped.  But they

are slow to act, and it's hard to sip while gasping for breath.



You might have better luck finding herbs to calm down the immune

over-reaction.  Fenugreek and (for some people) Echinacea

minimize allergic reactions 







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Tx for Asthmatics?

From: "Crystal Lynne" <x_x@in-orbit.com>

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:23:15 -0700

--------



> Just a different way of delivering the drug:  teas madewith

> Ephedra sinensis (basically ephedrine)can be sipped.  But they

> are slow to act, and it's hard to sip while gasping for breath.



Herbs taste far better, however, and are quite a bit less spendy :) What

about preventatives?













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Tx for Asthmatics?

From: dtv3@webtv.net (HDTV Wide Screen Full MsnTV Image)

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:15:06 -0500 (EST)

--------

Essential oil 12 hour treatment on Asthma

or Bronchitis. Use a 4 ounce bottle with 75% Mentha piperita

(peppermint), 20% of Mentha Spicata (Spearmint) and 5% Fir Needle (Abies

alba) Buy a inhaler cup with handles on both sides. 



In the morning before going to work put water in cup microwave to

boiling, then add 3 drops of this potion to water, oil doesn't mix with

water it will stay on top. Breathe in for 15 minutes there should be no

Asthma or Bronchitis 'wheezing' for 12 hours. After supper about 1 hour

do the same treatment over it will allow you to sleep with no

congestion. Do this every day of your life and you will never experience

attacks again. 





I have a woman on this for 30 years, using only natural to the body

products, instead of pharmaceutical asthma pills. Your choice a natural

or unnatural to the body way of freedom of either disease. Not a cure,

but better breathing for life.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Tx for Asthmatics?

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 6 Nov 2001 07:53:08 GMT

--------

>Anybody had success using herbs to treat/control asthmatic conditions?

>I am particularly interested in something that could be used in lieu of an

>inhaler/pharmaceutical during an attack...



>Thanx,



>Crystal Lynne



I think you mean Rx and not Tx?



Yes, I've used various herbs and combinations to relieve asthma, ever since

summer 1996.  I relied heavily on lobelia in the earlier days, but its effect

gradually diminished, and after I discovered the virtues of green tea, I had no

more need for lobelia.  Henriette has said lobelia dried herb loses its strength

in six months.  I generally use green tea in combinations that I put together

rather than alone.  I don't think any herbal combination will relieve an asthma

attack as quickly as albuterol + ipratropium bromide inhalers.



I used Chinese ephedra, ma huang (Ephedra sinica) intermittently, the most

recent being late March 1997.  Waking up coughing violently a few hours later

was part of the reason, though I can't say Chinese ephedra actually harmed me.

The violent coughing was probably due to the underlying condition rather than

the Chinese ephedra.



Different people with asthma will respond to different herbs and combinations.

Some people swear by mullein for asthma, but the effect on me is neutral

(herbal tea, I never tried smoking it).



A herbal regimen needs to treat both the immediate asthma attack and the

underlying conditions that spawn asthma attacks.  The latter is more

complicated.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Cannabis for pain relief

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:23:20 -0000

--------

Cannabis the leading painkiller in trials: Cannabis could be a better

treatment than conventional painkillers, according to the first commercial

trials of the drug. People with crippling multiple sclerosis or nerve

injuries were given a spray with cannabis extract, which is used under the

tongue. Pain relief was better than any previous treatment in four out of

five cases and some patients have described the effects as 'miraculous'. The

trial began last year after being approved by the Home Office (UK)

The Daily Mail











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 04:14:57 -0700

--------

"bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:



>Cannabis the leading painkiller in trials: Cannabis could be a better

>treatment than conventional painkillers, according to the first commercial

>trials of the drug. People with crippling multiple sclerosis or nerve

>injuries were given a spray with cannabis extract, which is used under the

>tongue. Pain relief was better than any previous treatment in four out of

>five cases and some patients have described the effects as 'miraculous'. 



All welland good, but it's still an illegal drug in the USA.

Various states have passed "medical marijuana" laws, but the feds

are still threatening to prosecute anyone who uses it.







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: Yez <yezelel@newsguy.com>

Date: 6 Nov 2001 21:10:44 GMT

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:



> All welland good, but it's still an illegal drug in the USA.

> Various states have passed "medical marijuana" laws, but the feds

> are still threatening to prosecute anyone who uses it.

> 

> Tsu Dho Nimh

> 

> A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will

> annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. 



I love your tag and lifted it :) There have been several busts here in 

CA by the DEA going against what the people clearly voted for and 

arresting people growing MM. A case here recently was thrown out 

because they hosed up the evidence (destroyed the crop by chopping it 

up so couldn't count the plants) and in every case where there is a 

jury trial, the DEA loses. What a waste of taxpayer money! But without 

the "drug war" the US government would lose their favorite tool for 

propping up terrorist dictatorships everywhere.



'rena



End 'drug war' terrorism now!





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:02:52 -0000

--------

There's hope yet... how about this little snippet from todays paper....!





 A study at a university in Charleston, South Carolina, into whether the

banned drug Ecstasy can help cure post-traumatic stress disorder, has

received approval from the Bush Administration. Incidence of the condition

is expected to increase in the wake of the terrorist attacks of September

11.

The Times



How come they can't investigate the medicinal properties of cannabis?

Anyway worth keeping an eye on the research coming out the UK.   I've heard

it's a big help for those with MS for instance.









"Yez" <yezelel@newsguy.com> wrote in message

news:Xns9151863D9946Dyezelelnewsguycom@209.155.56.90...

> Tsu Dho Nimh wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:

>

> > All welland good, but it's still an illegal drug in the USA.

> > Various states have passed "medical marijuana" laws, but the feds

> > are still threatening to prosecute anyone who uses it.

> >

> > Tsu Dho Nimh

> >

> > A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will

> > annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

>

> I love your tag and lifted it :) There have been several busts here in

> CA by the DEA going against what the people clearly voted for and

> arresting people growing MM. A case here recently was thrown out

> because they hosed up the evidence (destroyed the crop by chopping it

> up so couldn't count the plants) and in every case where there is a

> jury trial, the DEA loses. What a waste of taxpayer money! But without

> the "drug war" the US government would lose their favorite tool for

> propping up terrorist dictatorships everywhere.

>

> 'rena

>

> End 'drug war' terrorism now!









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: Liz Hanson <liz@zylanid.demon.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 22:29:16 +0000

--------

In article <1A7G7.729$_R2.114857@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, bryher <bryher_m

@yahoo.co.uk> writes

>Anyway worth keeping an eye on the research 

>coming out the UK.   I've heard

>it's a big help for those with MS for 

>instance.

>



Yes - there was a TV program recently, showing some of the MS sufferers taking

part in a trial.  They were using extract of cannabis sprayed under the

tongue, and did seem to gain some freedom of movement and suffer less pain.  I

just wanted to cheer!  Why should people have to suffer paralysis and pain if

there is something so cheap and simple that can help them?  If it helps only a

few, it should be an available option.

-- 

Liz Hanson





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: "Persephone" <fakeaddy@noneofyourbuisness.com>

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:37:39 GMT

--------

I'm not sure that would be true.  I can think of at least one thing

available in herbal form that is relatively cheap, yet is used in another

form pharmaceutically.  Black cohosh is know for it's estrogen replacing

abilities and is also found in Remifeminin.  There are other things in

Remifeminin, but the main ingredient is black cohosh.  Last time I check,

black cohosh is relatively cheap-I just bought a bottle in pill form for a

dollar, usually retails for $4 a bottle. ;)



-Michelle









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:06:10 -0500

--------

Unlike cannabis, black cohosh has no political-control history. For

comparison think of the higher tax cost of 190 proof tincturing alcohol

($5+ USD for 200 ml "half-pint" Everclear). Apparently, 190 proof beverage

alcohol is not even legal in some U.S. states. I can buy maybe 8 times

more denatured alcohol for the same price.



I suspect the extra $ would go to the -government- power axis. We know

from watching the news that cannabis products don't need no pharma lab  :) 



Sean

---





"Persephone" <fakeaddy@noneofyourbuisness.com> wrote in message

news:TaYH7.13692$RI2.7506180@news2...

> I'm not sure that would be true.  I can think of at least one

> thing available in herbal form that is relatively cheap, yet is

> used in another form pharmaceutically.  Black cohosh is know for

> it's estrogen replacing abilities and is also found in

> Remifeminin.  There are other things in Remifeminin, but the

> main ingredient is black cohosh.  Last time I check, black

> cohosh is relatively cheap-I just bought a bottle in pill form

> for a dollar, usually retails for $4 a bottle. ;) > -Michelle





"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:3bef095b_2@news.cybertours.com...

>     If they legalized it, they'd find a way to make it *not*

> cheap. Anything to make more $ for the medical/pharmaceutical

> power axis.





> "Liz Hanson" <liz@zylanid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:t$TMBIA8Wb67Ewy9@zylanid.demon.co.uk...

> > In article <1A7G7.729$_R2.114857@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, bryher

> <bryher_m

> > @yahoo.co.uk> writes

> > >Anyway worth keeping an eye on the research

> > >coming out the UK.   I've heard

> > >it's a big help for those with MS for

> > >instance.

> >

> > Yes - there was a TV program recently, showing some of the MS

> > sufferers taking part in a trial.  They were using extract of

> > cannabis sprayed under the tongue, and did seem to gain some

> > freedom of movement and suffer less pain.  I just wanted to

> > cheer!  Why should people have to suffer paralysis and pain if

> > there is something so cheap and simple that can help them?  If

> > it helps only a few, it should be an available option. 

> > Liz Hanson









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: Yez <yezelel@newsguy.com>

Date: 7 Nov 2001 23:48:14 GMT

--------

bryher wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:



> There's hope yet... how about this little snippet from todays

> paper....! 

> 

> A study at a university in Charleston, South Carolina, into whether 

> the banned drug Ecstasy can help cure post-traumatic stress

> disorder, has received approval from the Bush Administration. 

> Incidence of the condition is expected to increase in the wake of 

> the terrorist attacks of September 11.



Oh my stars and garters! I thought you were just joking about this, 

but I heard it on the news myself this morning, I almost fell out of 

my chair. More big lies. The 'authorities' have run tons of ads about 

how Ecstasy can cause permanent brain damage, even just using it one 

time, now they are saying it might be ok? Who's in charge in this 

looney bin? (slapping forehead)



'rena





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: Yez <yezelel@newsguy.com>

Date: 8 Nov 2001 22:29:59 GMT

--------

Leaves & Roots wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:



> Could you tell us what newspaper?  Was it local reporting or A.P.? 

 

Hi Carolyn,



I heard it on either CNN or C-Span, those are the two I listen to in

the morning. Here are a couple of links I found on a real quick

search though (the SFGate is AP article)...



http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2001/11/06/national2143EST0888.DTL&nl=fix

http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/index.html#fdaapproves

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/references/media/2001_maps_mdma_1.shtml



'rena





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Cannabis for pain relief

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 02:42:22 -0500

--------

"N`osal Woodbender" <nosalwoodbender@home.com> wrote in message

news:3BE7F860.5ED988B8@home.com...

[...]

>     It may be a pain releiver, not killer for some conditions.

> It did nothing for my fibromyalgia at all. It just made life a

> little easier. Making sweeping statements about a substance that

> should be legal is not good for the cause at all.



I agree.



The therapeutic effect (including pain relief) of cannabis varies with

both the condition being treated, and the conformation of the person being

treated. It makes no sense to oversell its properties when U.S. users must

take legal risks to use it. I don't recommend cannabis as a single herb

for anyone with a cold conformation (feels cold, dislikes coolers, likes

heaters). 



For example, cannabis used in trying to prevent/treat migraine makes some

people worse, yet others report relief. Mills (1991) stated that there are

some migraineurs who get relief only with cold, or others only with heat

applied to the head. The connection may be that cannabis is a cooling

herb, well-suited to the hard physical labor and hot working conditions in

Jamaica. 



Fibromyalgia is usually (not always) a cold disorder with low body

temperature (LBT). I recommend that those with fibro-LBT in the U.S. not

risk seeking out cannabis since therapeutic benefit is unlikely. (And

smoking anything is especially hard on fibro-LBT folks' lungs due to low

repair hormone levels.)  



Sean

---



 

> > "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> >

> > > Cannabis the leading painkiller in trials: Cannabis could be a

> > > better treatment than conventional painkillers, according to the

> > > first commercial trials of the drug. People with crippling

> > > multiple sclerosis or nerve injuries were given a spray with

> > > cannabis extract, which is used under the tongue. Pain relief

> > > was better than any previous treatment in four out of five cases

> > > and some patients have described the effects as 'miraculous'.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: herbs production

From: "vlado" <juresko@vip.hr>

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:49:12 +0100

--------

i'm living in dalmatia (croatia). there is a lot of herbs and spices all

around the adriatic cost, all nature without any kind of chemicals impact.

i'm looking for someone who wanna buy this goods. i can arrange production,

but need one serious buyers to doing the long term contract.

please, only serious offer.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: herbs production

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 6 Nov 2001 00:14:12 GMT

--------



>i'm living in dalmatia (croatia). there is a lot of herbs and spices all

>around the adriatic cost, all nature without any kind of chemicals impact.

>i'm looking for someone who wanna buy this goods. i can arrange production,

>but need one serious buyers to doing the long term contract.



I'm not a serious buyer but I kinda doubt whether Croatia is that much

less chemical-sodden than richer places in Europe.  Can you back this up?



I've only been there once, ten years ago visiting a friend.  I looked

into the market in Rijeka and there was an old woman selling a phenomenal

array of medicinal herbs, simply laid out on the pavement.  I could hardly

recognize any of them.  We had no language in common but I would love to

have been able to talk to her about them; obviously she knew exactly what

it all was and what it was for.  I would guess that regardless of whether

the herbs are distinctive, the local folk knowledge about them certainly is.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: horsechestnuts - any use?

From: at491@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Kim Goldberg)

Date: 6 Nov 2001 20:38:15 GMT

--------

Does anyone know of any use for horsechestnuts?  Apparently they

are too bitter to be roasted and eaten like regular chestnuts.



Kim



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Kim Goldberg | goldberg@freenet.carleton.ca | Nanaimo, BC

  Author Profile: http://www.islandnet.com/pwacvic/goldbg00.html 

      Latest Book: Where to See Wildlife on Vancouver Island  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: horsechestnuts - any use?

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 04:43:29 -0700

--------

at491@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Kim Goldberg) wrote:



>Does anyone know of any use for horsechestnuts?  Apparently they

>are too bitter to be roasted and eaten like regular chestnuts.



  I think they are toxic.  But they make great slingshot

ammunition.  





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: horsechestnuts - any use?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:53:32 +0200

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:



> at491@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Kim Goldberg) wrote:

> 

> >Does anyone know of any use for horsechestnuts?  Apparently they

> >are too bitter to be roasted and eaten like regular chestnuts.

> 

>   I think they are toxic.  But they make great slingshot

> ammunition.  



No, they're not toxic, they're just not edible.



Great medicine, in fact. Good for things like varicose veins, hemorrhoids, and

couparose skin.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: horsechestnuts - any use?

From: "SGilbertson" <slg@chorus.net>

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 07:57:11 -0600

--------



"Kim Goldberg" <at491@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message

news:9s9hnn$du8$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...

> Does anyone know of any use for horsechestnuts?  Apparently they

> are too bitter to be roasted and eaten like regular chestnuts.

>

> Kim



You definitely can't eat them.  They're supposed to be good for preventing

or shrinking varicose veins, but when I tinctured them, it tasted so bad

that I couldn't get down even a few drops of the stuff.  I have heard of

people taking horsechestnuts in capsule form but have never seen them in

caps myself.



Zoe









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: horsechestnuts - any use?

From: "Evelyn Ruut" <mama_lion@ulster.net>

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:22:56 GMT

--------





An interesting thing I have heard about horsechestnuts, (which may be purely

folklore), is that if you carry a horsechestnut in your pocket and touch it

regularly, it will stave off arthritis or rheumatism.   This was told to me

by a Norwegian lady.



It is interesting how often such folklore turns out to have some truth to

it, and frankly I would wonder if it might actually have some anti-arthritic

properties in the oil or skin of it.



Henrietta?  would you happen to know of this belief?   I ask you

specifically, since it is from the general area of your part of the world!



Best Regards,

Evelyn







"Kim Goldberg" <at491@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message

news:9s9hnn$du8$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...

> Does anyone know of any use for horsechestnuts?  Apparently they

> are too bitter to be roasted and eaten like regular chestnuts.

>

> Kim

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>     Kim Goldberg | goldberg@freenet.carleton.ca | Nanaimo, BC

>   Author Profile: http://www.islandnet.com/pwacvic/goldbg00.html

>       Latest Book: Where to See Wildlife on Vancouver Island

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: horsechestnuts - any use?

From: Rod Ellingham <rodz@zetnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:30:56 GMT

--------



> Does anyone know of any use for horsechestnuts?  Apparently they

> are too bitter to be roasted and eaten like regular chestnuts.



> Kim



*In this country they're called conkers & the kids (& some adults) 

bore holes in them & thred string through & have conker fights.  You 

try to break your opponents conker with your own.

As for eating, we were always warned they were poisonous...

Rod











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: horsechestnuts - any use?

From: "Evelyn Ruut" <mama_lion@ulster.net>

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 14:07:33 GMT

--------



"Rod Ellingham" <rodz@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message

news:2001110821305670044@zetnet.co.uk...

>

> > Does anyone know of any use for horsechestnuts?  Apparently they

> > are too bitter to be roasted and eaten like regular chestnuts.

>

> > Kim

>

> *In this country they're called conkers & the kids (& some adults)

> bore holes in them & thred string through & have conker fights.  You

> try to break your opponents conker with your own.

> As for eating, we were always warned they were poisonous...

> Rod





I always heard that too.  Wonder if it is true....



Evelyn









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: horsechestnuts - any use?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:00:28 +0200

--------

"Evelyn Ruut" <mama_lion@ulster.net> wrote:

> "Rod Ellingham" <rodz@zetnet.co.uk> wrote



> > > Does anyone know of any use for horsechestnuts?  Apparently they

> > > are too bitter to be roasted and eaten like regular chestnuts.

> >

> > *In this country they're called conkers & the kids (& some adults)

> > bore holes in them & thred string through & have conker fights.  You

> > try to break your opponents conker with your own.

> > As for eating, we were always warned they were poisonous...

> 

> I always heard that too.  Wonder if it is true....



Not toxic in the sense that you eat 'em and die, no.



Toxic in the sense that if you make a mush out of them and eat that you'll get

intense griping with diarrhoea and such, sure.



But that's just because they contain loads of saponins.

You'd get the same reaction if you'd eat soap (real soap, not commercially made

detergents)



In medicinal quantities (ie. small) you see none of that.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Ayurvedic Advice on Blook Pressure Please

From: "Ken Schwartz" <kenshireen@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 22:37:52 GMT

--------

I am looking for an herbal or Ayurvedic remedy to reduce blood pressure



Thank you, Ken









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ayurvedic Advice on Blook Pressure Please

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 23:30:22 -0500

--------

"Ken Schwartz" <kenshireen@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:4JiG7.22106$S4.2048766@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> I am looking for an herbal or Ayurvedic remedy to reduce blood pressure

> Thank you, Ken



Without knowing more (see below) you might try 1-2 grams daily of:

calcium-magnesium (Dr. Balch* recommends about 2-4 grams for high b.p.)

vitamin C         (Dr. Balch recommends 3-6 grams in divided doses)

vitamin E         (400 IU oil cap = roughly 1/2 gram)

Other complementary vitamins and minerals which will fit into a single

tablet.



*Balch & Balch, M.D., _Prescription for Nutritional Healing_, 1997.



The advantage of these nutrients is that some reportedly have direct

effects on improving high b.p., or will support and improve the action of

herbs or drugs when you find out what the right ones are.



There is a large amount of information on high blood pressure, both

allopathic and herbal. The most important question about this condition

can be readily answered only by an allopath: Does your high blood pressure

have a known cause ("secondary hypertension") or an unknown cause

("primary hypertension"). There may be herbal treatments for the causes of

secondary hypertension, but those causes should be explored separately. If

the cause is unknown, you are free to experiment with reasonable herbal

treatments (time dependent on just how high your pressure is). 



If you can't get herbs to work fairly soon, I suggest that you get the

condition under control with pharma and then gradually find herbs or

nutrients that will do the job long term. It would be wise to make some

inquiry into possible excessive action of simultaneous pharma and herbs;

if so there are strategies to attempt management of this problem. 



The most important thing that you can do yourself is to acquire a blood

pressure meter. The reason that it is important is that you can really

know if your treatment is working no matter how alternative it is (like

music therapy). 



The electronic b.p. meters are easier to use but reportedly not as

accurate as manual sphygmomanometers. Not easy-to-use means that you will

be less likely to use it, so I suggest an electronic one. If you write

down your nurse's occasional manual readings along with those from your

meter, you should get an adequate idea of the error, if any. 



The difference between "herbal" (probably meaning European herbal) and

Ayurvedic is that Ayurvedic uses herbs in formulas, and some/many of the

Ayurvedic herbs are not well known to either Euro or Traditional

Chinese Medicine (TCM) herbalists. Ayurvedic practitioners also give a lot

of lifestyle advice which may or may not sit well with Westerners. TCM is

much more body focused, and I think that is why it is growing so rapidly

in the U.S. with its diversity of lifestyle opinions. 



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Vasovagal, any herbs to help with it?

From: tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001)

Date: 08 Nov 2001 11:07:45 GMT

--------

Vasovagal is a condition in which blood is drawn

away from the brain and arms and pulled toward

the internal organs and legs.



It happens in suseptable people from either pain

or stress.



TIA





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Vasovagal, any herbs to help with it?

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:41:50 -0500

--------

"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011108060745.18011.00001949@mb-fz.aol.com...

> Vasovagal is a condition in which blood is drawn

> away from the brain and arms and pulled toward

> the internal organs and legs.

> It happens in suseptable people from either pain

> or stress. > TIA



This page has a lot of technical information on the condition. It appears

to be the about the same as simple fainting but occurs frequently enough

to be an injury risk.

http://www.nymc.edu/fhp/centers/syncope/vasovagal%20syncope.htm



They mention increased salt intake as a way to increased blood serum

volume.



Based on their suggestion of using fludrocortisone, licorice is probably

the herbal equivalent though a substantial dose may be required. While

using licorice some potassium supplementation may be a good idea if one

does not eat vegetables on a regular basis.



Based on their suggestion of using yohimbine "in selected patients",

yohimbe herb is an obvious substitute, though the author doesn't state the

indications for such selection. One should study the effects of yohimbe

before taking it. A stiff dose gave me a migraine headache, though that

isn't likely in people without chronic migraine.



Since SSRIs seem to help, that hints at a low serotonin hormone condition.

One could try adding serotonin-precursor tryptophan foods to one's diet,

including milk products, bananas, and turkey, probably best eaten at the

evening meal or snack in case of tryptophan-induced sleepiness.



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Oenethera

From: "John Lawrence" <canthespam@juno.com>

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:06:25 -0500

--------

What would be the best way to prepare homegrown Oenethera (evening primrose)

so as to reap the full benefit from the GLA contained in it. I'd like to

know which parts of the plants to use, and also whether to prepare a tea,

tincture,poultice, or ground herb, etc..









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Oenethera

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:47:59 +0200

--------

"John Lawrence" <canthespam@juno.com> wrote:



> What would be the best way to prepare homegrown Oenethera (evening primrose)

> so as to reap the full benefit from the GLA contained in it. I'd like to

> know which parts of the plants to use, and also whether to prepare a tea,

> tincture,poultice, or ground herb, etc..



Grind up the seeds.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: HGH

From: fool for love <loveleached@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 08:27:59 -0500

--------

Does anyone have an opinion about the use of HGH (human growth

hormone) as aid to sleep and mental clarity.

Are there any side effects to consider?

Does anyone have experience with using this?



thanks,

FFL





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: HGH

From: eddies1 <eddies1@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:47:16 -0500

--------

I used HGH for 6 months with no noticeable difference in my well being.

That was about 300.00 worth





fool for love wrote:



> Does anyone have an opinion about the use of HGH (human growth

> hormone) as aid to sleep and mental clarity.

> Are there any side effects to consider?

> Does anyone have experience with using this?

>

> thanks,

> FFL









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: HGH

From: thayer@zdaily.com (thayer)

Date: 8 Nov 2001 17:04:51 -0800

--------

fool for love <loveleached@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b12lutcavcm2dmfj5sg9bb0cu2ks7eb371@4ax.com>...

> Does anyone have an opinion about the use of HGH (human growth

> hormone) as aid to sleep and mental clarity.

> Are there any side effects to consider?

> Does anyone have experience with using this?

> 

> thanks,

> FFL



Hi FFL- there are basically 3 different types of HGH available-

homeopathic, injected and releasers- very differing results, very

differing costs and very differing side effects for each- (and tests

of homeopathic and releaser products show WIDE variations in

effectiveness depending upon which company product you take). You ask

about aiding sleep and mental clarity- these ARE frequently helped by

HGH. I personally take the homeoapthic product I sell partly because

it has virtually no known side effects (see dosage page on the site

below for known side effects for this product) and it has proven

effective for me in reversing a few of my aging signs. Is any form of

HGH a miracle cure? No, but over 98% of my customers fail to ever take

advantage of my 30-day money-back satisfaction guarantee.



Thayer  - Site Owner

http://www.hghcompany.com





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: HGH

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:06:03 -0600

--------

"thayer" <thayer@zdaily.com> wrote

>

> Hi FFL- there are basically 3 different types of HGH available-

> homeopathic, injected and releasers- very differing results, very

> differing costs and very differing side effects for each- (and tests

> of homeopathic and releaser products show WIDE variations in

> effectiveness depending upon which company product you take). You ask

> about aiding sleep and mental clarity- these ARE frequently helped by

> HGH. I personally take the homeoapthic product I sell partly because

> it has virtually no known side effects (see dosage page on the site

> below for known side effects for this product) and it has proven

> effective for me in reversing a few of my aging signs. Is any form of

> HGH a miracle cure? No, but over 98% of my customers fail to ever take

> advantage of my 30-day money-back satisfaction guarantee.



What percentage continues to re-order 6 months later or even 30 days later?



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: HGH

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 04:45:23 -0700

--------

fool for love <loveleached@hotmail.com> wrote:



>Does anyone have an opinion about the use of HGH (human growth

>hormone) as aid to sleep and mental clarity.



  It would be FOOLISH to mess around with your hormone levels.  



>Are there any side effects to consider?

  It's untested in humans ... you might be the first to discover

side effects.



>Does anyone have experience with using this?

  True HGH is injected, in short supply and EXPENSIVE ... I doubt

that we are talking about the same thing.  







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Pain relief

From: Rod Ellingham <rodz@zetnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:28:39 GMT

--------

I get bad pain at night from a sarcoma (cancerous tumour) in my leg, 

(even the NHS were able to diagnose it in the end, after giving me 

physiotherapy for mqny months for it (!!) which gave it plenty of 

time to spread elsewhere...the docs cut a lot of the tumour away 

months ago & I got 8 bouts of chemo (!!) which eased it temporarily. 

It only hurts when the leg is horizontal so I have to sleep sitting 

up most of the time. GP has prescribed avery pain killer in the book 

& none work.  My oncologist promised to send the GP his ideas for an 

effective pain killer but never did (this is absolutely typical of 

the NHS I've experienced) if I ring to enquire at the wonderful 

hospital (not a million miles from Aberdeen, I get confrontation 

&argument from their receptionist...) A scan at another NHS hospital 

seemed to show the growth had stopped, but apparently they'd 

forgotten to inject me with the dye...... then they forgot to send 

the scan to the oncologist at the other hospital I had to take a long 

journey to visit....



I'm sick of these highly-paid wallies, Anyone know something herbal 

that would help?

Rod











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Pain relief

From: Rod Ellingham <rodz@zetnet.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:43:27 GMT

--------

The message <cdQG7.2027$qf.285020@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>

  from  "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> contains these words: 





> See your GP & get him/her to ring the oncologist there and then?  They can

> sometimes miraculously  become available when a GP rings them.  Talk to the

> Patients Association & Community Health Council - even your MP - they can

> also get things moving fast.







But I did see the GP, who said no doubt the oncologist would contact 

him in due course.... I'm so totally disillusioned with the whole 

shower I can't be arsed, their receptionist/dragons only seem to see 

it as an ideal opportunity for an argument & I want to try & enjoy 

what's left of life, rather than struggle against these sad people.

The last time the local GP tried to speed things up I ended up having 

to do 2 sets of blood tests because the local one was done too early 

- more bloody needles & sore veins!

Rod

















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Pain relief

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:18:16 -0000

--------

> But I did see the GP, who said no doubt the oncologist would contact

> him in due course.... I'm so totally disillusioned with the whole

> shower I can't be arsed, their receptionist/dragons only seem to see

> it as an ideal opportunity for an argument & I want to try & enjoy

> what's left of life, rather than struggle against these sad people.



Can totally understand that.  It seems you have to find the energy to fight

the hardest when you're least able to do so.  It's really quite disgusting.

You need an intelligent GP who's prepared to stand up for you, or a

friend or relative to fight for you.  Maybe if you went back once more with

the specific request that he ring the oncologist he would do so.  Or maybe

see another Gp in the practise who is more understanding.  I've been in

touch with the Community Health Council before and found them really

efficient.  A letter to my MP about a problem my mother was having also

worked with wondrous speed where nothing had before.



You seem to have been treated shoddily from the start  - I would list those

things you mentioned in your first post and send it to CHC, MP & Patients

Assoc. with a request that you have the oncologist's recommended painkillers

immediately.  Copy it to the local newspaper - you might become a local

hero!  I'll  bet you anything you like you're not the only one having

problems in your area.



Another idea might be to organise an appointment - maybe two  - with a

private oncologist, or whatever specialism is best placed to recommend the

best pain control ... it's my impression that the private consultants have a

wider range of drugs to choose from.   Problem with that is if they are

pharmacy drugs only available at a hospital you may not be able to get them

on the NHS.  If the high street chemist can dispense them then you can get

the private prescription changed to an NHS prescription - at least my doctor

will do that.



Also helpful is this site

http://www.update-software.com/National/default.htm    check out the

clinical trials there - recruiting for all sorts of things from painful

knees to serious cancer. ... there are the results of trials there too.

(note for all those interested in the cannabis for pain relief trials....

should be in there somewhere...)



Maybe also there is an ng on google somehwhere  for ppl with your problem -

pain relief /cancer sufferers?... I'm sure there will be something there.





In the meantime does anyone know of any serious herbal pain relievers that

might help?

















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Pain relief

From: Yez <yezelel@newsguy.com>

Date: 10 Nov 2001 21:33:25 GMT

--------

Rod Ellingham wrote on alt.folklore.herbs:



> But I did see the GP, who said no doubt the oncologist would

> contact him in due course.... I'm so totally disillusioned with

> the whole shower I can't be arsed, their receptionist/dragons

> only seem to see it as an ideal opportunity for an argument & I

> want to try & enjoy what's left of life, rather than struggle

> against these sad people. The last time the local GP tried to

> speed things up I ended up having to do 2 sets of blood tests

> because the local one was done too early - more bloody needles &

> sore veins! Rod



Rod, I was hoping you would get some help, because I'm not well versed 

enough to help. I was diagnosed with a critical illness as well and 

through no help from allopathic doctors and conventional drugs have 

managed to return to some semblance of health :) Keep fighting, 

planning for tomorrow and maintain your sense of humor! I know how 

hard it is (I couldn't breathe, that made it pretty hard to laugh and 

even sitting up or moving hurt) I found a lot of helpful info at

http://www.lef.org/ they have a list of protocols at 

http://www.lef.org/protocols/index.shtml I also found Mothernatures 

on-line library very handy, but alas, they closed their site, boy do I 

miss them! Come back Mothernature!! I think most of their material was 

from Rodale(sp?)articles though and that might still be available 

somewhere on-line. Hang in there!



Good health and good luck,

'rena in El Cajon





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Pain relief

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:16:29 -0000

--------

Herbs that apparently help with sleep btw:  Scullcap, Hops, Valerian, Linden

flower, Catnip, Passion flower, Chamomile.   Melatonin too, though not a

herb of course.











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Comfrey Question??

From: "Arlene Mobley" <arlene9999@earthlink.net>

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 02:34:37 GMT

--------

   Did anyone happen to read the article in the Herb Companion about

comfrey?? They say that studies have been done because of a large amount of

people who ingested it for a long period of time developed a rare form of

liver disease. They also go on to caution not using comfrey on any open

wounds...This alarms me because comfrey is used alot in salves and soaps....

    Any comments?????



Arlene









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Comfrey Question??

From: "Mark Gold" <markdgold@mediaone.net>

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 06:12:33 GMT

--------

Arlene Mobley <arlene9999@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:1hHG7.26849$hZ.2466141@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

>    Did anyone happen to read the article in the Herb Companion about

> comfrey?? They say that studies have been done because of a large amount of

> people who ingested it for a long period of time developed a rare form of

> liver disease. They also go on to caution not using comfrey on any open

> wounds...This alarms me because comfrey is used alot in salves and soaps....

>     Any comments?????



Arlene,



My understanding is that very few people have diagnosed with problems from long-term, internal use of comfrey.

I think the number I've seen mentioned in the scientific literature is under 10 worldwide over the last 15-20

years. I don't use it internally (although I used it on rare occassion in the past) as I'm trying some

Ayurvedic Medicine formulas these days.



I don't think there is any problem with using it externally. In fact, I think those salves with comfrey are a

much safer and healthier choice than using drug store oitments. Now if you were going to dip your body in

comfrey root tea for 18 hours a day for several years, I think you might have something to worry about. :-)



Here's an article from HRF that I found that mentions comfrey and other herbs (but I don't think it addresses

external use):



http://www.herbs.org/greenpapers/controv.html





- Mark Gold

  mgold@holisticmed.com

  Holistic Medicine Resource Center

  http://www.holisticmed.com/











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Comfrey Question??

From: eddies1 <eddies1@earthlink.net>

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 14:59:38 -0500

--------

In the article I read, there were only 4 complications related to comfrey and 3

were questionable and 1 was related to a woman who consumed about 12 cups a day

for several years. I would be cautious and treat it like a temporary medicine

and maybe even have a liver funtion test done by my doctor if using internally

for more than a few weeks.



Arlene Mobley wrote:



>    Did anyone happen to read the article in the Herb Companion about

> comfrey?? They say that studies have been done because of a large amount of

> people who ingested it for a long period of time developed a rare form of

> liver disease. They also go on to caution not using comfrey on any open

> wounds...This alarms me because comfrey is used alot in salves and soaps....

>     Any comments?????

>

> Arlene









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Using Herbal Tinctures

From: "LisaJones" <soapprincess*Remove this*@home.com>

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 05:47:13 GMT

--------

I have several herbal tinctures, and wish to begin using them, but am

looking for some dosage information.



The herbs and their strengths are as following;



Dong Quai                    1:1

Vitex                                1:1

False Unicorn Root    1:1.5

Red Raspberry Leaf    1:1

Wild Yam Root            1:1



All of the tinctures are organic, and alcohol based with the exception of

one glycerate (The red raspberry leaf).



I am hoping to use them to regulate a hormone imbalance.



Any help with amounts would be truly appreciated.



L.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Growing herbs indoors

From: "M Gagarin" <mgagarins@home.com>

Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 20:08:45 GMT

--------

Hello all,



Hoping for some tips from the "experts"...everyone here seems to be far more

knowledgeable than me. I just started gardening this past year, and had an

herb plot that did pretty well despite an incredibly long drought. A few

weeks ago I moved several of the plants indoors. They've been doing OK, but

just barely. I'd really like to keep them going all winter. What I'm looking

for are any good tips from experienced growers, beyond just the normal "lots

of sunlight" and "keep watered". I've got the plants in a spot where they

get just about all the sunlight there is to get during the day, and I'm

watering them about every other day. Are there some herbs that require more

water than others, and are there any good fertilizers/plant foods I can use?

Also, I know basil gets bushier if you keep the blossoms and smaller leaves

pinched back, but will the other herbs benefit from regular plucking?

The types I have are as follows:

Basil - The regular Italian Sweet variety

Sage

Parsely

Thyme

Rosemary

--You know, all the basic culinary herbs. I also have a lemon basil plant

and a "dark opal" basil with deep purple leaves...that last one is least

healthy-looking, but still hanging on.



Again, just looking for some general tips on any or all of the herbs. I've

found a lot of general herb info, but not much on any specific plant.



Thanks,

Mike













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing herbs indoors

From: "Lili" <jaroen@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 00:08:01 GMT

--------

mine do well with their weekly dose of miracle gro.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing herbs indoors

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 04:34:36 -0700

--------

"M Gagarin" <mgagarins@home.com> wrote:



>Hello all,



>A few

>weeks ago I moved several of the plants indoors. 



  Did you dig them up?  Or were they in pots all along?



>They've been doing OK, but

>just barely. I'd really like to keep them going all winter. What I'm looking

>for are any good tips from experienced growers, beyond just the normal "lots

>of sunlight" and "keep watered". 



  Depending on where you live, you might not have enough

sunlight.  And herbs (except the mints) usually like to be on the

dry side.



  A "Gro-Lite" for them would help.  But in northern climates,

perennial herbs are best treated as annuals.  If you plant them

in large pots and bring them into a place with 10-12 hours of

light (sun or artificial) they can survive over the winter. 









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing herbs indoors

From: "M Gagarin" <mgagarins@home.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:59:15 GMT

--------



Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>   Did you dig them up?  Or were they in pots all along?



Nope, I dug them up. That was part of my concern for the basil, as I've read

some varieties are easily shocked by transplanting. As for the others, I

wasn't so sure.



>   Depending on where you live, you might not have enough

> sunlight.  And herbs (except the mints) usually like to be on the

> dry side.

>

>   A "Gro-Lite" for them would help.  But in northern climates,

> perennial herbs are best treated as annuals.  If you plant them

> in large pots and bring them into a place with 10-12 hours of

> light (sun or artificial) they can survive over the winter.



I was wondering about the sunlight, in fact. There's still quite a bit now,

but I'm in western Michigan, so when winter really kicks in there might be

10 hours of daylight at best, probably more like 8 or 9.

As for Gro-Lite (and Miracle Gro, thanks Lili), is there a particular kind

that's food-safe, or are they all OK? I do cook with these herbs just about

every day. This may sound weird, but when I first moved the plants to pots,

I watered them a few times with Schultz's tomato food...gardening supplies

are pretty much seasonal around here, and it was the only thing I could find

that I could safely assume was OK to have in edible plants.

Anyway, thanks a lot. You've already helped quite a bit.





> Tsu Dho Nimh

>



PS--After lurking around this groupo for a few days, I just caught on to

your Pseudonymn. I like it.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing herbs indoors

From: Liz Hanson <liz@zylanid.demon.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 15:25:35 +0000

--------

In article <Dw9H7.7207$RI2.3816294@news2>, M Gagarin <mgagarins@home.com>

writes

>

>This may sound weird, but when I 

>first moved the plants to pots,

>I watered them a few times with Schultz's 

>tomato food...gardening supplies

>are pretty much seasonal around here, and it 

>was the only thing I could find

>that I could safely assume was OK to have in 

>edible plants.



Go easy on the tomato food when using it with non-tomatoes.  It can be too

strong for slower-growing plants.  Nothing wrong with it - just use it more

diluted.  (Tomatoes can grow in sewage, so I have heard, and like their food

strong)

-- 

Liz Hanson





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing herbs indoors

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 05:32:32 -0700

--------

"M Gagarin" <mgagarins@home.com> wrote:



>As for Gro-Lite (and Miracle Gro, thanks Lili), is there a particular kind

>that's food-safe,



  Gro-Lite - one of those flourescent lights for indoor growing

of plants. 



  Next year, plant some herbs in pots for wintering over to avoid

the transplant shock.









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing herbs indoors

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:48:00 +0200

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:



> "M Gagarin" <mgagarins@home.com> wrote:

> 

>   A "Gro-Lite" for them would help.  But in northern climates,

> perennial herbs are best treated as annuals.  If you plant them

> in large pots and bring them into a place with 10-12 hours of

> light (sun or artificial) they can survive over the winter. 



Umm. No. Lots of herbs are perennial up here, too, if they're perennial

elsewhere, that is. No need to dig up, say, French tarragon, or most of the

thymes, or chives (which _came_ from here), or lovage, or the mints, or or or...



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing herbs indoors

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 05:35:50 -0700

--------

Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote:



>Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:



>>   A "Gro-Lite" for them would help.  But in northern climates,

>> perennial herbs are best treated as annuals.  



>Umm. No. Lots of herbs are perennial up here, too, if they're perennial

>elsewhere, that is. No need to dig up, say, French tarragon, or most of the

>thymes, or chives (which _came_ from here), or lovage, or the mints, or or or...



  How do you harvest them under the snow and ice?  In Montana

(-40 winters, 3-4 feet of snow, 2 foot frost line) starting them

fresh indoors in late winter gave them a head start over plants

that had wintered over outdoors.





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Growing herbs indoors

From: "LisaJones" <soapprincess*Remove this*@home.com>

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:06:52 GMT

--------

Many perennial plants require a rest period each year ...I have some

Lavender that is looking a little sorry right now...it's normal for them to

do this in the fall and winter, part of the natural cycle.



Lisa











==========

Newsgroups: sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Yohimbe herb formulas for life extension

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 02:12:41 -0500

--------

serge_kreutz@yahoo.com (Serge Kreutz) wrote in sci.life-extension 

news:<68592051.0111040333.1b67a60b@posting.google.com>...

> I believe that yohimbine does have some potential for life

> extension. It lowers blood pressure, and grossly improves sexual

> function... which in itself has life-extending potential.

> [snip]

"John Doe" <xyzzy35@hotmail.com> wrote in sci.life-extension

news:9dcc03d1.0111082105.61ee9dc@posting.google.com...

> Actually, yohimbe readily causes tachycardia and 

> high blood pressure.



Making a distinction between yohimbine (the extracted chemical) and

yohimbe (the herb): Herbs with partly undesirable effects can combined

into a herbal formula which minimizes the undesirable for a particular

conformation body type (warm/cool, moist/dry, etc.)



If yohimbe is a unique aphrodisiac as www.yohimbe.org claims, then it

would be worthwhile to develop (or find existing) a series of such

formulas by body type.



Anyone know more about yohimbe combination herb formulas?



Sean

---





"John Doe" <xyzzy35@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:9dcc03d1.0111082105.61ee9dc@posting.google.com...

> serge_kreutz@yahoo.com (Serge Kreutz) wrote in message

> news:<68592051.0111040333.1b67a60b@posting.google.com>...

> > I believe that yohimbine does have some potential for life

> > extension. It lowers blood pressure, and grossly improves sexual

> > function... which in itself has life-extending potential.

> >  

> > The following is from http://www.yohimbe.org :

> > 

> > "This web site started out providing information on yohimbe,

> > the bark, and yohimbine, the pharmaceutical agent, which is

> > extracted from the bark. We still mainly deal with yohimbe and

> > yohimbine because yohimbe and yohimbine until now are the only

> > substances worth to be called an aphrodisiac, a drug that

> > enhances sexuality. It does so with all aspects of it (desire

> > and performance). It's the only drug under the sun that does

> > this, though we grant that Viagra (sildenafil) is another

> > medication working on erections (but not on desire).

> > 

> > "While this site has initially focused on yohimbe / yohimbine

> > and sexuality, we have now widened the scope by not just dealing

> > with sexuality but aspects of life extension and eternal youth."

> 

> Actually, yohimbe readily causes tachycardia and high blood pressure.

> Go away.









==========

Newsgroups: sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Yohimbe herb formulas for life extension

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:50:36 +0200

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote:



> Making a distinction between yohimbine (the extracted chemical) and

> yohimbe (the herb): Herbs with partly undesirable effects can combined

> into a herbal formula which minimizes the undesirable for a particular

> conformation body type (warm/cool, moist/dry, etc.)

> 

> If yohimbe is a unique aphrodisiac as www.yohimbe.org claims, then it

> would be worthwhile to develop (or find existing) a series of such

> formulas by body type.

> 

> Anyone know more about yohimbe combination herb formulas?



Yohimbe is a unique aphrodisiac, yep. It's unique in being so dangerous to

people with weak hearts. Couple that with the fact that some people can't get it

up _because_ they have weak hearts and you're ready for disaster. 



There's better herbs. Try muira puama instead, for starters.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Yohimbe herb formulas for life extension

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:25:45 -0500

--------

"Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:ghfqut8qm0l42m3k90eelisvvpialnivs6@4ax.com...

> Yohimbe is a unique aphrodisiac, yep. It's unique in being 

> so dangerous to people with weak hearts. 



I did what you promote for study of herbal treatments-- I looked for

experiential evidence of this yohimbe vs. heart problem. Perhaps I missed

important data, but I couldn't find much at all. 



Most Google search items quoted a vague 1993 document from the FDA

website. In the FDA's _Special Nutritionals/Adverse Events Medwatch(?)

System_ I found one reported death for a multi-ingredient product in 1998

for which yohimbe was the 6th listed ingredient.

<http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/aemsfull.html>



In the The Medicinal HerbFAQ at Henriette's website, Michael Moore doesn't

like yohimbe (the herb) because of its complex and self-counteracting

chemistry: 

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-2-2-yohimbe.html

"Consistent use will, because of it's wildly opposite effects, find and

widen metabolic chinks in almost ANYBODY."  Moore uses the term

"potentially", so maybe his concern is at least partly theoretical.



Spoerke's review of herbal literature (_Herbal Medications, 1990_)

mentions an ambiguous report of lowering of high blood pressure by

yohimbine, when logic would suggest the opposite. 





> Couple that with the fact that some people can't get it

> up _because_ they have weak hearts and you're ready for disaster. 



Viagra has the same problem, as may other impotency treatments:



http://www.carlsonlabs.com/pdf/march.pdf

"DRUG VS. GRIM REAPER 

"A printed perspective in the Journal of the American Medical

Association has revealed a rather alarming number of deaths in

men who use pharmaceutical interventions to treat erectile

dysfunction (ED). 



"Of the deaths of men who use prescriptions to treat 

ED, Viagra was listed highest, with 564 deaths out 

of approximately 11 million prescriptions. ...



"Viagra is hailed as a cure for impotency, and only recently

has the FDA publicized an update to include a revised label

noting risks of myocardial infarction, sudden cardiac death, and

high blood pressure.  The debate of drug vs. disease is not the

issue.  Rather, common sense points that if an underlying

cardiovascular disease may be the causative factor for

impotency, if the disease is treated first, then impotency may

recede." JAMA. 2000;283(5): 590-91



"Post Script:  Yocon ... [Yohimbine Hydrochloride] 

showed only 1 death out of 4 million prescriptions. 

This was the lowest out of the four drugs listed."



Yohimbine (the drug) seems statistically safe, but clearly safer if one

does not have heart disease. I think that's why the FDA doesn't want it to

be OTC.



I found the whole www.yohimbe.org site occasionally confusing on the issue

of yohimbe (the herb) vs. yohimbine (the extracted drug). The author

apparently prefers yohimbine. 



At <www.yohimbe.org/yohimbelimitations.htm> the author talks about the

side effects:

"However, yohimbe also has its limitations. For one thing, the side

effects are difficult to manage: general over-excitation, heart

palpitations, sleeplessness for some 20 hours after ingesting even an

amount too little to have any pro-sexual effect." 



Sleep is critical to life extension, so there are clearly limits to be

observed. Any future multi-herb herb formulation should try to safely

counteract this effect.



The author also notes a slowly increasing tolerance (5-fold in several

years) for both yohimbe and yohimbine. This is obviously another issue for

life extension use.



> There's better herbs. Try muira puama instead, for starters.



<http://www.yohimbe.org/muirapuama.htm> states "No, muira puama does not

work, not as an aphrodisiac anyway." 



But, reported aphrodisiacs may work for some people and not for others

(surprise, YMMV!). On another page of the same site

<http://www.yohimbe.org/others.htm> appears a review of a recipe by

Cynthia Mervis Watson MD, named "Flibuster" Orgasmic party punch. This

recipe contains both muira puama tincture, and damiana tincture. Watson

observed evidence and a reported a testimonial of aphrodisiac efficacy.

(_Love Potions_, by Watson & Hynes; JP Tarcher, 1993)





Yohimbe may be an endangered species:

http://www.geocities.com/nutriflip/Naturopathy/Yohimbe.html

"In the meantime the destruction goes on which will see this species

virtually eliminated from it's native habitat. We urge that anyone

contemplating the purchase of any yohimbe product should make enquiries as

to whether it is plantation grown. The environmetally responsible facade

of the pharma companies is not to be trusted unless they clearly state

that it is plantation sourced rather than the so called "responsibly and

sustainably harvested" material."





The Euro-American herbalists seem to be opposed to yohimbe, and therefore

are unlikely to create new formulas. It's not native to TCM or Ayurvedic,

and isn't mentioned in my Unani book. Yohimbe (the herb tree) is native to

Nigeria, Cameroon and the Congo. If the indigenous herbal traditions there

use traditional herb formulas to limit side effects, such formulas may be

inaccessible to us. 



Sean

---





serge_kreutz@yahoo.com (Serge Kreutz) wrote in sci.life-extension 

news:<68592051.0111040333.1b67a60b@posting.google.com>...

> I believe that yohimbine does have some potential for life

> extension. It lowers blood pressure, and grossly improves sexual

> function... which in itself has life-extending potential.

> [snip]

"John Doe" <xyzzy35@hotmail.com> wrote in sci.life-extension

news:9dcc03d1.0111082105.61ee9dc@posting.google.com...

> Actually, yohimbe readily causes tachycardia and 

> high blood pressure.

>

"Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:ghfqut8qm0l42m3k90eelisvvpialnivs6@4ax.com...

> Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote:

> 

> > Making a distinction between yohimbine (the extracted chemical)

> > and yohimbe (the herb): Herbs with partly undesirable effects

> > can combined into a herbal formula which minimizes the

> > undesirable for a particular conformation body type (warm/cool,

> > moist/dry, etc.)

> > 

> > If yohimbe is a unique aphrodisiac as www.yohimbe.org claims,

> > then it would be worthwhile to develop (or find existing) a

> > series of such formulas by body type.

> > 

> > Anyone know more about yohimbe combination herb formulas?

> 

> Yohimbe is a unique aphrodisiac, yep. It's unique in being so

> dangerous to people with weak hearts. Couple that with the fact

> that some people can't get it up _because_ they have weak hearts

> and you're ready for disaster. 

> 

> There's better herbs. Try muira puama instead, for starters. 

> Henriette









==========

Newsgroups: sci.life-extension,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Yohimbe herb formulas for life extension

From: Michael Moore <hrbmoore@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:28:46 -0700

--------

In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.1011111060557.8890A-100000@ASARian.org>,

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote:



> "Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

> news:ghfqut8qm0l42m3k90eelisvvpialnivs6@4ax.com...

> > Yohimbe is a unique aphrodisiac, yep. It's unique in being 

> > so dangerous to people with weak hearts. 

> 

> I did what you promote for study of herbal treatments-- I looked for

> experiential evidence of this yohimbe vs. heart problem. Perhaps I missed

> important data, but I couldn't find much at all. 



For what it's worth, this is the Commission E monograph on Yohimbe,

minus the references. (I am not exactly a fan of them, nonetheless...)



I have other research, but to put it up would be even worse copyright

violations than THIS is. I sold, formulated and experimented

extensively with the bark (back in the 1970s, when quality sources were

easier to find). I finally stopped using it completely...to many

customers and patients coming in with tachycardia, low OR high blood

pressure reactions and vascular irritation...I concluded it was far too

problematic and herb for over-the-counter sales, too unpredictable for

use with the very folks that had sexual dysfunctions tied to

cardio-vascular, diabetic or hormonal causes. 



Personally (ever a taker of herbs) I took so much in the early days

that the very NAME Yohimbe has given me shivers for over 25 years



--------------------Commission E---------------------------

YOHIMBE BARK

Latin Name: Pausinystalia yohimbe Pharmacopeial Name: Yohimbehe cortex

Other Names: johimbe



OVERVIEW

Yohimbe is a tall evergreen forest tree, reaching a height of 90 feet

and width of 40 feet, native to southwestern Nigeria, Cameroon, Gabon,

and the Congo. The material of commerce is collected in the wild in

this same region (Bown, 1995; Keay, 1989; Leung and Foster, 1996;

Reichert, 1997). Yohimbe bark has traditionally been used in western

Africa as a sexual aphrodisiac, especially in male erectile disorders,

reportedly stimulating both erection and salivation. Medicinal use of

yohimbe bark reached Europe in the 1890s. 



The majority of pharmacological data is on one of its isolated

constituents, the indole alkaloid yohimbine, rather than on whole bark

preparations (Bown, 1995; Duke, 1997; Grasing et al., 1996; Leung and

Foster, 1996). Yohimbine is also found in related trees (Pausinystalia

macroceras and P. tillesii) as well as in Indian snakeroot (Rauwolfia

serpentina (L.) Benth) and quebracho (Aspidosperma quebracho-blanco).

In Africa, P. lane-poolei (pamprana, igbepo) is also used

therapeutically. A dressing of the ground bark is applied topically to

yaws (an infectious tropical skin disease) and itching skin (Bown,

1995; Budavari, 1996; Duke, 1997).



In Germany, yohimbe bark is the subject of a negative (unapproved)

monograph in the Commission E due to lack of data and safety concerns.

In the United States, yohimbe bark is widely used in numerous

aphrodisiac, athletic performance (as an alternative to anabolic

steroids) and male sexual performance dietary supplements. The most

commonly prescribed drug for functional impotence is yohimbine

hydrochloride (e.g., Afrodex, Aphrodyne, Yocon, Yohimex,

Yohydrol), which is often combined with other drugs, including

strychnine, thyroid, and methyltestosterone (Leung and Foster, 1996;

Tyler, 1993). 



The Merck Index reports its therapeutic category as an a-adrenergic

blocker and mydriatic (causing pupillary dilatation), its use as a

pharmacological probe for the study of a2-adrenoceptor, and its uses in

veterinary medicine as an aphrodisiac and as an adrenergic blocking

agent (Budavari, 1996). No significant human studies on crude yohimbe

bark or its whole extract have been conducted.



Numerous studies, however, have investigated the actions of the

isolated constituent yohimbine; for example, some pharmacokinetic

studies have been performed in humans (Grasing et al., 1996; Owen et

al., 1987) and human clinical studies have investigated its use for

erectile dysfunction or male impotence (Morales et al., 1987; Reid et

al., 1987; Riley, 1994). One study indicated that lower doses of

yohimbine, given to patients who are fasting or eating a low-fat diet,

may be more effective (Grasing et al., 1996).



There are a few studies showing that yohimbine is effective for some

impotence, especially of vascular, diabetic, or psychogenic origins. It

can improve the quality and staying power of erections, usually without

increasing sexual excitement. The Commission E noted side effects,

however, including dizziness, nervousness, and anxiety. To determine

its therapeutic efficacy and evaluate the safety of yohimbine in regard

to its specific use for erectile dysfunction, a systematic review and

meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials was conducted (Ernst and

Pittler, 1998). The authors found seven trials that fit the predefined

inclusion criteria. Overall methodological quality of those studies was

satisfactory. The meta-analysis demonstrated that yohimbine is superior

to placebo in treating erectile dysfunction. Serious adverse reactions

were infrequent and reversible. 



The authors concluded that the benefits seem to outweigh the risks.

Therefore, yohimbine is considered to be a reasonable therapeutic

option for erectile dysfunction (Ernst and Pittler, 1998). This

conclusion is based not on the bark but on the isolated constituent

yohimbine, which is available as a drug. A review of yohimbine and

related yohimbe alkaloids details potential adverse effects and drug

interactions (De Smet, 1997).



Though yohimbe bark is freely available in the United States in health

and natural food stores, pharmacies, and by mail order, it should be

used with caution. It is not recommended for excessive or long-term use

and may potentiate pharmaceutical MAO-inhibitors. Its pharmaceutical

derivative, yohimbine, can significantly increase blood pressure at

oral doses of only 1520 mg (12 mg can induce a hypertensive crisis in

patients taking tricyclic antidepressants), produce unpleasant

digestive and central nervous system symptoms, and may potentiate

hypotensive drugs. A dose as low as 10 mg can induce mania in patients

with bipolar depression (Bruneton, 1995; De Smet and Smeets, 1994;

Grasing et al., 1996; McGuffin et al., 1997; Osol and Farrar, 1955;

Reichert, 1997; Roth et al., 1984). An analysis of commercial yohimbe

products sold in the United States revealed that few products were

found with any appreciable levels of yohimbine, raising concerns about

the quality control of some of these products (Betz et al., 1995). 



DESCRIPTION

Yohimbe bark consists of the dried bark of the trunk and branches of

Pausinystalia yohimbe (K. Schumann) Pierre ex Beille [syn. Corynanthe

yohimbi Schumann] [Fam. Rubiaceae] and its preparations. The bark

contains alkaloids. The main alkaloid is yohimbine. 



CHEMISTRY AND PHARMACOLOGY

Yohimbe contains up to 6% indole alkaloids, 1015% of which are

yohimbine (quebrachine); also a-yohimbine (isoyohimbine),

allo-yohimbine (dihydroyohimbine), yohimbinine, a-yohimbane,

yohimbenine, corynantheine, and others (Betz et al., 1995; Budavari,

1996; Leung and Foster, 1996). The Commission E did not report

pharmacological actions.



USES

The Commission E reported its unofficial use for sexual disorders, as

an aphrodisiac, and for feebleness and exhaustion. The effectiveness of

this herb and its preparations for the claimed applications is not

sufficiently documented in the scientific literature, and thus the

Commission E categorized it as an unapproved herb. The Commission E did

not find adequate documentation to support this use. The Evaluation

section of the original monograph states, "The therapeutic

administration of yohimbe bark and its preparations is not recommended

because of insufficient proof of efficacy and the unforeseeable

correlation between risk and benefit."



Contraindications

In existing liver and kidney diseases and in chronic inflammation of

the sexual organs or prostate gland (McGuffin et al., 1997; Reynolds,

1989; Roth et al., 1984).

___________________________________________________________________

Side Effects

Therapeutic administration of yohimbine can cause nervous excitation,

tremor, sleeplessness, anxiety, increased blood pressure, tachycardia,

nausea, and vomiting. In case of existing liver and kidney diseases,

yohimbe preparations should not be used. Interactions with

psychopharmacological herbs have been reported.



Use During Pregnancy and Lactation

No data available.



Interactions with Other Drugs

May potentiate pharmaceutical MAO-inhibitors and, in high doses,

potentiate hypotensive drugs (McGuffin et al., 1997).



Dosage and Administration

Evaluation: The therapeutic administration of yohimbe bark and its

preparations is not recommended because of insufficient proof of

efficacy and the unforeseeable correlation between risk and benefit

(Commission E).



Yohimbine Hydrochloride: 5.4 mg, three times daily (Rice et al., 1996);

6 mg., three times daily (Morales et al., 1987; Reid et al., 1987;

Reynolds, 1989; Werbach and Murray, 1994); 15-20 mg per day though

higher doses up to 42 mg per day may be more effective (Werbach and

Murray, 1994). Other sources state that yohimbine may be more effective

at lower doses and that there are significant risks associated with

doses over 10 mg (Devi, 1998; Reichert, 1997; Riley, 1994).



-- 

Michael Moore (hrbmoore@mindspring.com)

http://www.swsbm.com - SW School of Botanical Medicine

All my teaching and clinical manuals, 2000 medicinal plant

images and herb research material can be obtained at my web site.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: About cutting back on Ginkgo Biloba

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 01:47:00 -0800

--------

I've been taking ginkgo biloba ( Spring Valley 30 mg standardized

extract tablets ) 2 X 2 = 4 per day , for 60 days now. I want to cutting

it back to 2 X 1 per day , it seems to help me with thinking and my mem.

Will 2 X 1 per day keep me close to the help I'm getting now , or is it

better to just stop taking it for a mo or two the start again.



Thanks for any input !!



T.A.S.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: About cutting back on Ginkgo Biloba

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 04:35:19 -0700

--------

taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.com> wrote:



>I've been taking ginkgo biloba ( Spring Valley 30 mg standardized

>extract tablets ) 2 X 2 = 4 per day , for 60 days now. I want to cutting

>it back to 2 X 1 per day , it seems to help me with thinking and my mem.

>Will 2 X 1 per day keep me close to the help I'm getting now , or is it

>better to just stop taking it for a mo or two the start again.



  You will never know unless you try it.  





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: for scarring

From: derwyn <ynerbyn@bo.m>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:08:11 +1300

--------

calendula cream







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: for scarring

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:34:27 -0700

--------

"goudagirl" <gudagirl@swbell.net> wrote:



>as I get older, I find that any adult acne or other skin blemishes never

>seem to go away completely any more...I'm always left with a bit of a scar

>or dark spot. It's esp. bothersome on the more visible places, such as my

>face and chest.  



Prevention is easier than removal.  The dark pigmentation can be

prevented by using sunscreen on freshly healed wounds.  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Whats The Best Herb to grow with a child

From: derwyn <ynerbyn@bo.m>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:13:20 +1300

--------

>You can also make avocado trees - help it along by whacking it once

with

a knife, then keep the lower part of the seed in water (a cognac glass

does nicely).



Now there's a nice lifestyle! :-)







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Kava Kava extract brand?

From: "Penn" <dennispennis@geocities.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:52:39 GMT

--------

Do u know a good kava kava extract brand?,and where a can get it?



-Rob-









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Help Required!

From: "Stephen Armstrong" <stephen.armstrong1@virgin.net>

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:08:41 -0000

--------

Hi Group,

Just dropped in as I need to find Vegetarian Gelatine type Capsules in the

UK, any help would be appreciated.



--

Regards,

Stephen









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Help Required!

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:45:03 +0200

--------

"Stephen Armstrong" <stephen.armstrong1@virgin.net> wrote:



> Hi Group,

> Just dropped in as I need to find Vegetarian Gelatine type Capsules in the

> UK, any help would be appreciated.



The Herbal Apothecary (in the UK) has vegecaps.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Flower remedies

From: bluebell <"bluebells<wood>"@shaw.ca>

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 02:47:59 GMT

--------

Good evening:

Does anyone  know about the Bach flower remedies.

Opinions please?

Thanks very much

Diana

chop the wood to email







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: What is the best brand...

From: "bgirl" <brianne@spamtrapalpha66.com>

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 03:36:22 GMT

--------

of 5-HTP to purchase?  And where is a good site that rates different brands

of vitamins and herbs (if there is such a site)





Thanks!!

bri









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: comfrey -gums

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:33:44 -0000

--------

I have heard some tales about comfrey being good for receeding gums. Can

anyone tell me more about how I use this herb (leaves or root), where I can

purchase the herb or a product ready made (preferably in the UK)



thanks



Sue













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: comfrey -gums

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:44:38 +0200

--------

"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:



> I have heard some tales about comfrey being good for receeding gums. Can

> anyone tell me more about how I use this herb (leaves or root), where I can

> purchase the herb or a product ready made (preferably in the UK)



You probably won't be able to find it in the UK, unless you grow your own.

Don't, though - it contains liver toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids, and there's

better herbs for everything comfrey has been used for. 



Don't brush so hard for receding gums, and go to a dentist.

Try Calendula for bleeding gums, and go to a dentist.

Try Echinacea with Calendula for gum diseases, and go to a dentist.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: comfrey -gums

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:38:29 -0000

--------

Henriette,



Nice hint about the dentist... been, regularly, getting basic cleaning done

regularly. No mre help from the dentist Im afraid.



My gums arent bleeding, just slowly receeding, I had been pretty poorly,lost

weight etc and I think the malnutrition led to lack of gum growth. Hopefully

they should recover with me but I want to give them a hand



We have Echinacea tea (Dr Stuarts) would that be something that could be

useful if I drank more regularly.. or is it not strong enough as tea... ?



Sue









Henriette Kress wrote in message ...

>"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>

>> I have heard some tales about comfrey being good for receeding gums. Can

>> anyone tell me more about how I use this herb (leaves or root), where I

can

>> purchase the herb or a product ready made (preferably in the UK)

>

>You probably won't be able to find it in the UK, unless you grow your own.

>Don't, though - it contains liver toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids, and

there's

>better herbs for everything comfrey has been used for.

>

>Don't brush so hard for receding gums, and go to a dentist.

>Try Calendula for bleeding gums, and go to a dentist.

>Try Echinacea with Calendula for gum diseases, and go to a dentist.

>

>Cheers

>Henriette

>

>--

>hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

>Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: comfrey -gums

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 03:48:24 -0500

--------

"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:MeMI7.9274$6v1.1094946@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

[snip]

> My gums arent bleeding, just slowly receeding, I had been

> pretty poorly,lost weight etc and I think the malnutrition led

> to lack of gum growth. Hopefully they should recover with me but

> I want to give them a hand

[snip] > Sue



My dentist told me that one significant cause of gum recession was mouth

breathing. This can be the result of short lip(s), night nasal congestion,

association with snoring, night head position, pillow type, etc. Night

mouth breathing can be observed by having a family member or friend

watching you sleep. 



Also, while I was doing the fluoride research for a recent thread, I

recall some research (or just some claims) that vitamin-mineral

supplementation would slow gum recession. I was focused on fluoride, so I

don't recall many details or have a cite. The outcome of my fluoride net

research was that superior nutrition (primarily via food refrigeration) is

far more important than topical fluoride in prevention of cavities.



This is likely to be true of gums as well. Since you probably have a

refrigerator, starting or improving vitamin-mineral supplementation is

logical next step for your consideration. All vits and minerals should be

supplemented together, but since scurvy is well known to attack gums prior

to other visible tissues, it is possible that vit C should be one of the

heavier supplement doses. Subclinical scurvy (no bleeding) is a well-known

health food theory of many illnesses. 



Too bad about the comfrey PA problem. Since comfrey cause faster tissue

growth, a comfrey-substitute mouthwash would be a good try to accompany

vits-mins. Are any of the comfrey substitutes known to have the same

tissue-growth acceleration action?



Good luck,

Sean

---





> Henriette Kress wrote in message ...

> >"Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> >

> > > I have heard some tales about comfrey being good for receeding

> > > gums. Can anyone tell me more about how I use this herb (leaves

> > > or root), where I can purchase the herb or a product ready made

> > > (preferably in the UK)

> >

> > You probably won't be able to find it in the UK, unless you

> > grow your own. Don't, though - it contains liver toxic

> > pyrrolizidine alkaloids, and there's better herbs for everything

> > comfrey has been used for.

> > 

> > Don't brush so hard for receding gums, and go to a dentist. Try

> > Calendula for bleeding gums, and go to a dentist. Try Echinacea

> > with Calendula for gum diseases, and go to a dentist.

> > 

> >Cheers

> >Henriette









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: comfrey -gums

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:07:10 +0200

--------

Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote:



> Too bad about the comfrey PA problem. Since comfrey cause faster tissue

> growth, a comfrey-substitute mouthwash would be a good try to accompany

> vits-mins. Are any of the comfrey substitutes known to have the same

> tissue-growth acceleration action?



I expect you mean Plantago spp. (leaf) and Calendula? Yes, they can be used in

the same way as comfrey, without the PA risks.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: comfrey -gums

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:01:26 -0000

--------

Thanks for all this information. I am taking a more serious regular dose of

vitamin C, and I have an order of a product called orarex - anyone heard of

this, or had any experience.



best wishes



Sue













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: I love this stuff

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 16 Nov 2001 09:22:50 GMT

--------

from "CRS" <chris.schardt@crimsoncup.com>:



> A fantastic tasting green tea that is also good for you.



> Check out www.yerbamateforhealth.com.



I tried yerba mat from a health food store, Frontier brand, was not impressed.

When I got started with green tea (Camellia sinensis), I had no more reason to

take yerba mat.  But I still intend to browse the above Web site to see what

they say.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: anxiety

From: BOREDnTEXAS@webtv.net

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:49:46 -0600 (CST)

--------

what is a good herb for calming anxiety...i have tried kava and valerian

with no or little effect....looking for something you can find in te

health food stores...any info will help..thanks.

                                  faith







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anxiety

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:20:35 +0200

--------

BOREDnTEXAS@webtv.net wrote:



> what is a good herb for calming anxiety...i have tried kava and valerian

> with no or little effect....looking for something you can find in te

> health food stores...any info will help..thanks.



You might want to do something about the cause for anxiety. There's worse things

to do for that than find your nearest flower therapist.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anxiety

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 17 Nov 2001 08:58:09 GMT

--------

>You might want to do something about the cause for anxiety. There's worse things

>to do for that than find your nearest flower therapist.



>Henriette



Just what does a flower therapist use and do, and is it closely related to

aromatherapy?  I am rather confused in these areas.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anxiety

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:36:06 +0200

--------

"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote:



> >You might want to do something about the cause for anxiety. There's worse things

> >to do for that than find your nearest flower therapist.

> 

> Just what does a flower therapist use and do, and is it closely related to

> aromatherapy?  I am rather confused in these areas.



Read the FAQ.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anxiety

From: "CRS" <chris.schardt@crimsoncup.com>

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:08:06 -0500

--------

I have been drinking an herbal tea that calms me down (helps me sleep at

night) and keeps me going at the same time.  At times I used to only get 4

to 5 hrs a night.



It is called Yerba Mate tea.  Check out www.yerbamateforhealth.com for more

information on it including a free report on the health benefits.



I drink the tea regularly and love it.



Chris







<BOREDnTEXAS@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:7831-3BF5359A-5@storefull-238.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

> what is a good herb for calming anxiety...i have tried kava and valerian

> with no or little effect....looking for something you can find in te

> health food stores...any info will help..thanks.

>                                   faith

>











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anxiety

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:42:32 +0200

--------

"CRS" <chris.schardt@crimsoncup.com> wrote:



> I have been drinking an herbal tea that calms me down (helps me sleep at

> night) and keeps me going at the same time.  At times I used to only get 4

> to 5 hrs a night.

> 

> It is called Yerba Mate tea.  Check out www.yerbamateforhealth.com for more

> information on it including a free report on the health benefits.

> 

> I drink the tea regularly and love it.



Spam spam spam

oh oh oh ooooh



Anyway. Yerba mate is just yet another caffeine-containing leaf tea.



For the same "benefits" you can do regular green tea. Or even a tea made of

green coffee beans.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anxiety

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 06:01:54 -0700

--------

BOREDnTEXAS@webtv.net wrote:



>what is a good herb for calming anxiety...i have tried kava and valerian

>with no or little effect

  How were you using them, for how long?  



  Also, what is the  source of the anxiety and is it interfereing

with your life?  



Faith - 

  Forget the "yerba mate" advice, as it's caffeine.  In the USA,

a commonly sold brand of tea, Celestial Seasons  has a flavor

called "Tension Tamer".  It's a mix of Kava, Valerian, Linden and

a few other relaxants.  Found in most supermarkets. 

  Make a big cup, sweeten with a bit of mesquite honey and sip

slowly.  



  In some Hispanic supermarkets, there is a tea called "Tila",

which is pure lindenflower.  In small quantities, this is VERY

calming to many people.  In larger quantities, it has them face

down on their desks, snoring.  



  Meditation is a very good way to curb anxiety - even the

initial slow breathing exercises are effective.  





  





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anxiety

From: "Sue Green" <sue.green1@ntlworld.com>

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:04:58 -0000

--------

>calming to many people.  In larger quantities, it has them face

>down on their desks, snoring.

>

>  Meditation is a very good way to curb anxiety - even the

>initial slow breathing exercises are effective.







I can agree with this, in a state of panic its hard to feel it work, but if

you keep practising calm breathing in the non anxious moments, your body

starts to learn.... I think this and some physical stretching exercises

really helped my overactive nervous system



I used to carry bachs rescue remedy for general anxiety and fear, but also a

bigger bottle of the rock rose for panic..



best wishes



Sue









>

>

>

>

>

>Tsu Dho Nimh

>

>A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy

enough people to make it worth the effort.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: anxiety

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 19 Nov 2001 10:11:24 GMT

--------

Excerpt from Tsu Dho Nimh:



>  In some Hispanic supermarkets, there is a tea called "Tila",

>which is pure lindenflower.  In small quantities, this is VERY

>calming to many people.  In larger quantities, it has them face

>down on their desks, snoring.



I've seen, in a few Hispanic or international markets (two so far, and one is no

longer in business), Tilo estrella, which I think is really Ternstroemia (family

Theaceae) and not related to tilia (linden).  It was sold in 1/8 oz bag, Adelita

brand, which wouldn't go far.  One herb store also carried this herb, Frontier

brand (both linden and ternstroemia flowers, sold separately).







==========

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - just don't go nuts 

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:40:04 -0500

--------

"DRCEEPHD" <drceephd@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011116153511.15511.00000293@mb-mn.aol.com...

> Natural Hygiene has long recommended ( over 100 years ) the

> eating of fresh, raw, nuts.  Its about time modern medicine

> caught up.  



One person's nut-meat is another person's poison, and modern medicine has

to treat some of the victims in the ER. 



Nut-meat promotion seems to be a periodic food fad going back at least 100

years. I suppose it stalls each time when a significant number of children

get very sick or even die from the potent allergens contained in tree nuts

as a group. One problem for natural hygiene theory is that tree nuts

resist being eaten-- think about that bitter red stuff which surrounds

pecan nut-meat. Cashews have toxic shells which are removed before selling

them. 



> He ate 8 brazil nuts with romaine lettuce daily for his extra

> need for protein.  



Particularly beware of feeding brazils, cashews, and other exotic nuts to

young children. Read the labels of chocolate candy boxes for exotic nuts

content before giving them to young children. I suspect that some cases of

holiday gastritis can be traced to chocolates with ground-up nuts.



To introduced older children to exotic nuts, you can use a one-time

progressive sensitivity test. Advise older children to first rub the nut

lightly inside their lower lip, and wait a few minutes. Then if no

reaction (like swelling)  they should take a small nibble, and wait a few

minutes. Then if no reaction it is probably ok to eat an entire nut, but I

suggest that they wait till the next day before eating any more. 



Sean

---





"DRCEEPHD" <drceephd@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011116153511.15511.00000293@mb-mn.aol.com...

> >Subject: Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - 

> >just don't go nuts 

> >From: John 'the Man' DeMan@JustSayNo.com 

> >Date: 11/16/01 1:58 PM Central Standard Time

> >Message-id: <ondavtk92kooouf3bp9t89mdvl3tur12av@4ax.com>

> 

> > An interesting article was turned up by my 

> > Health Newsfeed service at:

> > http://home.naturalhealthperspective.com/links.html

> >

> > Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - 

> > just don't go nuts

> >

> >

http://www.dallasnews.com/lifestyles/food/STORY.ea009046fe.b0.af.0.a4.6f648.html

> > "Scientists are studying them, health experts are convening

> > about them, and even weight-loss specialists are recommending

> > them. Joining olive oil, nuts are the latest food to fall into

> > the healthy fat category."

> 

> Natural Hygiene has long recommended ( over 100 years ) the

> eating of fresh, raw, nuts.  Its about time modern medicine

> caught up.  

> 

> We keep fresh, raw nuts available at all times.  1 to 2 ounces

> every other day is plenty.  I recall the story of the "Lion of

> Russia", a vegetarian wrestler who was never defeated.  He ate 8

> brazil nuts with romaine lettuce daily for his extra need for

> protein.  Doesn't hurt for quality fat and...calcium as well.

> Cee.









==========

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - just don't go nuts 

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:10:03 -0500

--------

"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message 

news:3bf5a27a_1@news.cybertours.com...

> I SWEAR you NEVER heard boo about this a generation ago. Or do

> you think people have changed, or the nuts have changed, or

> there has been some type of environmental shift that has primed

> people to have more severe food allergies?



I never heard boo about tree nut allergies either, even though I almost

died from one as a boy. At the time it just didn't occur to most parents

(or doctors?) that they could report this kind of thing to the FDA. It

wasn't until I was studying herbs that I found out that tree nuts were

notorious allergens. While I was in a distinct minority, yet I was not all

that unusual. 



There was one limited clue to my being at risk: My family had allergies,

and I had severe upper respiratory allergies from a time soon after birth.

So, perhaps families without any allergies need not be overly concerned

about giving their children exotic nuts.



As for what has changed, it's an increase in mass communication and a

decrease in birth rate. In Japan, and elsewhere, parents are obsessed with

protecting their one child from even fairly remote dangers. 



My suspicion of an allergen-promoting environmental factor is the

universal use of plastic clothing (and rugs)-- not the wearing of plastic

clothes, but the dust of them settling on forced air furnace heat

exchangers and outgassing constant low levels of little known chemicals.



Sean

---





"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message 

news:3bf5a27a_1@news.cybertours.com...

>    And to think all these years how unwary my family was!! I

> mean, duh, we just had nuts at the holidays and we ate them like

> little piggies and loved them. No swelling, no visits to the

> emergency room, no problemo- continuing for now some 40 years in

> my case. The only side effect is gaining weight. (I guess come

> to think about it that IS a TYPE of swelling..) Who knew what a

> very dangerous practice this was!!

> 

>    Seriously, I am so totally amazed when I do run into someone

> with a severe food allergy- one fella who stops breathing if he

> eats potatoes, but refuses to read labels before he eats

> prepackaged foods- leaves it up to his wife to do that. Sort of

> a Darwinian behavior, I thought.

> 

>    Do you think previously people just died from this type of

> thing at an early age, but now we are saving them and their

> genetic line, and have these ongoing health problems? I SWEAR

> you NEVER heard boo about this a generation ago. Or do you think

> people have changed, or the nuts have changed, or there has been

> some type of environmental shift that has primed people to have

> more severe food allergies?

> -- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

> refuses to stay between the lines when parking --

> 







==========

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - just don't go nuts 

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 17 Nov 2001 13:22:27 GMT

--------



[ Double top-posting fixed; Wakefield did it in the first message,

  Foxfire then did it again, this time quoting the same text twice.]

>> I SWEAR you NEVER heard boo about this a generation ago. Or do

>> you think people have changed, or the nuts have changed, or

>> there has been some type of environmental shift that has primed

>> people to have more severe food allergies?



Elliot Dewberry's "Food Poisoning" (1943; 4th ed 1958) has a chapter on

food allergy in which he estimates that 30% of the population had some

degree of it.  He has 18 references on it going back to 1912.



He gives a list of the most frequently problematic allergens.  Walnuts

are on it but peanuts aren't.  Peanut allergy seems to be a genuinely

new problem.





> As for what has changed, it's an increase in mass communication and a

> decrease in birth rate. In Japan, and elsewhere, parents are obsessed

> with protecting their one child from even fairly remote dangers. 



Frank Furedi's "Paranoid Parenting" has some good stuff on this for the

British context.  The removal-of-childhood-germs theory fits in with this.





> My suspicion of an allergen-promoting environmental factor is the

> universal use of plastic clothing (and rugs)-- not the wearing of plastic

> clothes, but the dust of them settling on forced air furnace heat

> exchangers and outgassing constant low levels of little known chemicals.



Possible, but chemical allergies and food allergies often affect different

people.  The overlap isn't that great.





It took me a few seconds to format this message correctly, a fraction of

the total time I spent writing it.  That will have saved the readers of

this group, collectively, from hours of sorting through chaotic jumbles

of quotation.  It's plain selfish arrogance not to edit properly.  (Your

software is no excuse: my newsreader puts the insert point at the start

of a followup, too).



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - just don't go nuts 

From: db77619@aol.com (Db77619)

Date: 17 Nov 2001 18:00:01 GMT

--------

In "The Green Pharmacy"(Can't remember author), the author mentions several

different nuts as herbal medicine for certain ailments and diseases. He does

give a word of caution about allergic reactions to nuts. 

My advice is if you're worried about being alergic to nuts is to make an

appointment to be tested by an allergy specialist.

I recently found out that testing is pretty much painless. However, they still

probably use a few of the old methods. By the way, it's been years since I was

tested. I was a teenager when I was tested for allergies.





==========

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - just don't go nuts

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 18 Nov 2001 10:37:03 GMT

--------

"DRCEEPHD" <drceephd@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011116153511.15511.00000293@mb-mn.aol.com...



> Natural Hygiene has long recommended ( over 100 years ) the

> eating of fresh, raw, nuts.  Its about time modern medicine

> caught up.

>

> We keep fresh, raw nuts available at all times.  1 to 2 ounces

> every other day is plenty.  I recall the story of the "Lion of

> Russia", a vegetarian wrestler who was never defeated.  He ate 8

> brazil nuts with romaine lettuce daily for his extra need for

> protein.  Doesn't hurt for quality fat and...calcium as well.

> Cee.



Sean/Foxfire responded:



> One person's nut-meat is another person's poison, and modern medicine has

  to treat some of the victims in the ER.



> Nut-meat promotion seems to be a periodic food fad going back at least 100

  years. I suppose it stalls each time when a significant number of children

  get very sick or even die from the potent allergens contained in tree nuts

  as a group. One problem for natural hygiene theory is that tree nuts

  resist being eaten-- think about that bitter red stuff which surrounds

  pecan nut-meat. Cashews have toxic shells which are removed before selling

  them.



> Particularly beware of feeding brazils, cashews, and other exotic nuts to

  young children. Read the labels of chocolate candy boxes for exotic nuts

  content before giving them to young children. I suspect that some cases of

  holiday gastritis can be traced to chocolates with ground-up nuts.



Why pick on tree nuts?  There are many other food allergens in the plant and

animal kingdoms, and fungi too.  Wheat is a frequent offender, for allergies and

celiac disease.  Corn, potatoes, citrus, tomatoes, peanuts are frequent

offenders.  Fish and nonfish seafood, milk and eggs have been known to trigger

nasty reactions, sometimes life-threatening.



Ground nuts in candies and cakes, being hidden, are a trap for people allergic

to those nuts.



I need the calories in nuts, eat more than 2 ounces nut meats per day average,

and am still skinny.  But I get very little fat from other than nuts and seeds.



I don't find any bitter stuff in ripe pecans, though underripe pecans are sticky

and bitter inside, unpalatable to humans, though I have seen squirrels eat

pecans at that stage.



Other things besides nuts resist being eaten.  Ever try to catch and eat a deer

with bare hands and teeth?









==========

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - just don't go nuts

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:20:32 -0500

--------

"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

news:9t830c$sd3i$2@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

> Why pick on tree nuts?  Wheat is a frequent offender, for

> allergies and celiac disease.  Corn, potatoes, citrus, tomatoes,

> peanuts are frequent offenders.  Fish and nonfish seafood, milk

> and eggs have been known to trigger nasty reactions, sometimes

> life-threatening.



It was something I read years ago, no cite. Supposedly tree nuts were

either more allergenic (more people affected) than other food sub-groups,

or the resulting allergic reactions were more adverse (more ER runs or

fatalities). Do you think that source was wrong?



> Ground nuts in candies and cakes, being hidden, are a trap for 

> people allergic to those nuts.



This is a bad one for me, since some exotic tree nuts turn out to be cheap

(Andy Rooney on CBS _60 Minutes_, 2001). I have to wonder if their

cheapness is the result of not digesting well in most of the population.



> I need the calories in nuts, eat more than 2 ounces nut meats

> per day average, and am still skinny.  But I get very little fat

> from other than nuts and seeds.



I like and eat a lot of pecans when I can afford them, along with the

occasional walnut. During one period of my life, pecans and sun-dried

apricots were a staple diet (yum).



> I don't find any bitter stuff in ripe pecans, though underripe

> pecans are sticky and bitter inside, unpalatable to humans,

> though I have seen squirrels eat pecans at that stage.



I can't figure that. Every single Georgia pecan I've ever cracked had a

brittle U-shaped layer of dark red, bitter, and astringent material

sandwiched between the nut-meat halves (and elsewhere I think). Sometimes

I even find a little of this in bags of shelled pecans.



> Other things besides nuts resist being eaten.  Ever try to catch 

> and eat a deer with bare hands and teeth?



LOL!



Wheat and other herbivore-fodder plants also resist being eaten through

their phytoestrogens content, a hormone-suppressing issue for men. From

plants, phytoestrogens make their way into natural vitamin E oil caps,

with unknown consequences. Natural source dry alpha-vit E has had the

phytoestrogens destroyed by heat processing, but it lacks beta, delta, and

the newly-important gamma-vit E.



Sean

---











==========

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Enjoy those pecans, walnuts, and almonds - just don't go nuts 

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:11:07 -0000

--------

There's the theory that we're all too clean these days.   Southhampton

University have tried vaccinating people who have allergic asthma with

certain soil bacteria and have had a lot of success.   I think there's some

bigger trials ongoing.   Our lack of exposure to many bugs  these days can

mean the immune system goes 'looking for trouble' in other directions

apparently.    Childhood vaccinations only stimulate part of the immune

system - I believe scientists are looking to modify them so they give the

whole immune system something to do.   Had a really interesting article

about it but it got deleted- should have kept it!









I SWEAR you NEVER heard boo about this a generation

> ago. Or do you think people have changed, or the nuts have changed, or

there

> has been some type of environmental shift that has primed people to have

> more severe food allergies?

> --

>

> -- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

> refuses to stay between the lines when parking --

>















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,misc.health.alternative

Subject: Re: homeopathy - any proof ?

From: <ftekpuentes@UBmail.ubalt.edu>

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:23:26 EST

--------



http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991532



joseph in NC



















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Isecticidal Soap??

From: "Denis Marier" <marierd@nbnet.nb.ca>

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:47:52 GMT

--------

I have had problems with insects especially with basil.  I just bough a

bottle of Insectiidal Soap.

The people at the Garden Center stated that it was safe to use on herbs

providing that they be washed before eating.  I would appreciate getting

some comments on using this Insectidal Soap made by Green Earth









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Isecticidal Soap??

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 05:58:38 -0700

--------

"Denis Marier" <marierd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:



>I have had problems with insects especially with basil.  I just bough a

>bottle of Insectiidal Soap.

>The people at the Garden Center stated that it was safe to use on herbs

>providing that they be washed before eating.  I would appreciate getting

>some comments on using this Insectidal Soap made by Green Earth



  Insecticides sold for use on edible plants have to pass

stringent testing.



  A perfectly acceptable, and much cheaper, bug killer is 1/4

teaspoon liquid dishwashing detergent and 1 tablespoonful of

vegetable oil in one quart of water.  Mix in a spray bottle and

thoroughly spray the leaves, top and bottom, with it.  



  Rinse well after harvesting.





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Isecticidal Soap??

From: jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie)

Date: 23 Nov 2001 08:41:04 GMT

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:

>   A perfectly acceptable, and much cheaper, bug killer is 1/4

> teaspoon liquid dishwashing detergent and 1 tablespoonful of

> vegetable oil in one quart of water.  Mix in a spray bottle and

> thoroughly spray the leaves, top and bottom, with it.  

> 

>   Rinse well after harvesting.



That may work well for many plants, but that particular solution killed

my rosemary -- one that was looking really promising for Bonsai, too.

Oh, well...

The catnip survived the treatment.



-- 

  jamie  (mjwm@cox-internet.com)



  		"There's a seeker born every minute."







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Isecticidal Soap??

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 05:06:06 -0700

--------

jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie) wrote:



>Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>   A perfectly acceptable, and much cheaper, bug killer is 1/4

>> teaspoon liquid dishwashing detergent and 1 tablespoonful of

>> vegetable oil in one quart of water.  Mix in a spray bottle and

>> thoroughly spray the leaves, top and bottom, with it.  

>> 

>>   Rinse well after harvesting.

>

>That may work well for many plants, but that particular solution killed

>my rosemary -- one that was looking really promising for Bonsai, too.

 

  Maybe you have to rinse soon after applying it?  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Sneezy kitty

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:22:12 -0500

--------

My 13 pound cat (not fat, just a very big cat) has a cold.  He has been

sneezing and coughing since yesterday morning.  His nose is running, too.

Poor guy is breathing through his mouth right now and it's not a pretty

sight.  For anyone familar with Berke Breathed's comic strips, he puts me in

mind of Bill the Cat.  I'm just waiting for the AAACCK!.



Anyway...



Are there any safe herbs for treating this in a cat?  I have a ton of info

on what to use for people, but I have nothing on cats.  I was thinking along

the lines of a little bit of yarrow.  I also have a tincture called

Decongest which has elcampane, mullein, comfrey leaves and anise.  It works

great on humans.  Just don't know if anything in there would be bad for

cats.  I wanted to use the tincture form because he won't touch his water

dish if there's anything but water in it.  A few drops of tincture will be

easy to give him...if I can wrestle him to the ground.  ;  )



Thanks.



Saskia

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Sneezy kitty

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 05:39:58 -0700

--------

"Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:



>My 13 pound cat (not fat, just a very big cat) has a cold.  He has been

>sneezing and coughing since yesterday morning.  His nose is running, too.

>Poor guy is breathing through his mouth right now and it's not a pretty

>sight. 



  How old is he? What's his vaccination history?  Is he

interested in food or not?  Does he have a fever?  



 There are several things that can cause this, a couple of them

are viruses, a couple bacteria.  And some require a vet visit and

antibiotics.  



>Are there any safe herbs for treating this in a cat?  

  No - their metabolism is way wierd, and you can kill them

easily with the wrong thing.  



  Plenty of water, a warm place to sleep, and the usual food. If

he loses interest in food for more than two days, it's vet time.



  If he's reasonably active and eating, he's just got a "cold". 









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Sneezy kitty

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:00:51 -0500

--------

"Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:mgspvtcj45crklp7m8o942ibrvvd5ith9u@4ax.com...

> "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:



Thanks, Tsu.  Turns out he just had a cold.



He was to the vet 2 weeks ago for a gum infection - on a short course of

antibiotics for that.  His shots are up to date.  He's an indoor cat, so not

in contact with any of the neighborhood cats.



Aside from an occassional sneeze, he's back to his usual silly self.



Saskia

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.

















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: OT: Top vs. middle vs. bottom posting

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:52:28 -0500

--------

"bogus address" <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:8354@purr.demon.co.uk...

> [ Double top-posting fixed; Wakefield did it in the first message,

>   Foxfire then did it again, this time quoting the same text twice.]



I didn't top post; it's technically a middle post. I did a bottom post

quoting six lines from the previous ~24-line post. I then trimmed the

previous thread to include only the most recent previous post and quoted

it below my signature for purposes of continuity (dealing with the server

lag arrive-out-of-order problem).



I did repeat six lines-- that's the compromise which avoids both top

posting and also having to scroll to the bottom of a long thread. For a

while I tried removing the top quotation's lines from the post quoted at

the bottom (to avoid any repeat) but with further quotation the original

posters thoughts were at some risk of being misunderstood. 



The problem is that one never knows when threads will both get long and

require debate continuity for new readers. When this happens bottom posted

threads become tedious to read. 



Top posting works much better for fast reading-- I can instantly tell if

the posted response is troll, spam, or flame (or anti-those) that I don't

want to read, and just tap the NEXT UNREAD button. 



Since some readers prefer a visible conversation continuity, I have

compromised by repeat-quoting only the lines I'm responding to. For fast

reading a short quotation works almost as well as top posting. But in

those cases where I'm not responding to a specific thought, then I do a

simple top posting rather than quote the entire previous post and force

the reader to scroll to the bottom. In other words, I don't make other

people do what I don't want to do. 



I was well aware that you would complain about the repeated lines. It was

the best compromise that I could think of to date.



> It took me a few seconds to format this message correctly, a fraction of

> the total time I spent writing it.  That will have saved the readers of

> this group, collectively, from hours of sorting through chaotic jumbles

> of quotation.  It's plain selfish arrogance not to edit properly.  (Your

> software is no excuse: my newsreader puts the insert point at the start

> of a followup, too).



I thought it was clean, organized, considerate, and well-thought out

myself   :)



Your MacSlurp 1.6d8 newsreader which autoscrolls to the first unquoted

line does sound like a nice feature. Perhaps it will be added to Outlook

Express or other free PC-compatible newsreaders eventually. However, like

the classic IBM Selectric typewriter, that type of fix is known as a

"triumph of engineering over design". A problem thus fixed tends to return

when migrating one's newsreading or news post archives to a new platform.





AAACCK! (I guess you UK folks never saw Berke Breathed's Bloom County with

Bill the Cat) You crossposted your complaint to misc.health.alternative, a

huge flame-prone newsgroup, on the weekend yet! I have trimmed m.h.a

and renamed this post to keep the a.f.h formatting debate as local as

possible. 



Sean

--









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: mixing herbs

From: karipuf@sesat.net (karipuf)

Date: 17 Nov 2001 17:03:22 -0800

--------

Hi..



I would like to make a custom tea blend incorporating nettles,

licorice and tea and I was wondering if there were likely to be any

interactions between these herbs in the tea.



On a more general note, are there any general rules of thumb

(concerning interactions) when it comes to mixing herbs? I mean.. is

it generally a safe thing to do or are there certain issues that one

has to be aware of?



Thanks

karipuf





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: "Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:11:55 -0500

--------

"karipuf" <karipuf@sesat.net> wrote in message

news:1ff14997.0111171703.28b8642c@posting.google.com...

[snip]

> On a more general note, are there any general rules of thumb

> (concerning interactions) when it comes to mixing herbs? I mean.. is

> it generally a safe thing to do or are there certain issues that one

> has to be aware of?



Always keep in mind that herbs are medicines, and just because they are

natural doesn't mean they are "safe".



The best thing is to get a few good books which give you a complete

description of the herb, what it does medicinally, what its active

ingredients are, what part to use, etc.  Problem is that there isn't really

one book out there that has everything in it...you'll find the info

scattered all over the place.



My herb bookshelves are loaded with books, magazines, clippings, notebooks

and print-outs from the internet...including more than a few good threads

that have been on this newsgroup (see the Google newsgroup archive site).



Read up on what you're going to use in your tea.  See how it affects your

body.  Look at the description to see if there are any contraindications.



Saskia





--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No excuses for not acting...and no mercy for whiners.











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:54:38 +0200

--------

"Saskia" <saskia49@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:



> "karipuf" <karipuf@sesat.net> wrote in message

> news:1ff14997.0111171703.28b8642c@posting.google.com...

> [snip]

> > On a more general note, are there any general rules of thumb

> > (concerning interactions) when it comes to mixing herbs? I mean.. is

> > it generally a safe thing to do or are there certain issues that one

> > has to be aware of?

> 

> Always keep in mind that herbs are medicines, and just because they are

> natural doesn't mean they are "safe".



Sweeping generalizations, anybody?



I have one, too:



   Always keep in mind that herbs are food, and just because pharmaceutical

   giants extract single active constituents from them and sell that as medicine

   doesn't mean they are "dangerous".



Anyway, if by tea you mean your normal run-of-the-mill black chinese tea

(Camellia sinensis) then don't do that together with licorice, at least not for

any length of time. Tea contains caffeine, which exhausts your adrenals.

Licorice strengthens the adrenals. The end result is not pretty.



Other rules of thumb? You might want to go to a herb school or the other.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: "KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:57:59 -0500

--------



"Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:u4qevtc2lek4879kk3p3upenjtsh0j7iib@4ax.com...

> Anyway, if by tea you mean your normal run-of-the-mill black chinese tea

> (Camellia sinensis) then don't do that together with licorice, at least

not for

> any length of time. Tea contains caffeine, which exhausts your adrenals.

> Licorice strengthens the adrenals. The end result is not pretty



So, taken together they offset, leaving the adrenals alone, right?



While taking either one alone on a constant basis would lead to problems,

unless you were attempting to correct a problem.



k









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:00:50 +0200

--------

"KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co> wrote:



> "Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote

> > Anyway, if by tea you mean your normal run-of-the-mill black chinese tea

> > (Camellia sinensis) then don't do that together with licorice, at least not for

> > any length of time. Tea contains caffeine, which exhausts your adrenals.

> > Licorice strengthens the adrenals. The end result is not pretty

> 

> So, taken together they offset, leaving the adrenals alone, right?



Like I say, one strengthens, the other drains, the result is NOT pretty.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:04:26 +0100

--------



karipuf a crit dans le message

<1ff14997.0111171703.28b8642c@posting.google.com>...

>Hi..

>

>I would like to make a custom tea blend incorporating nettles,

>licorice and tea and I was wondering if there were likely to be any

>interactions between these herbs in the tea.

>

>On a more general note, are there any general rules of thumb

>(concerning interactions) when it comes to mixing herbs? I mean.. is

>it generally a safe thing to do or are there certain issues that one

>has to be aware of?

>

>Thanks

>karipuf



Which nettle? Some contain digitaline (digitalus).



James









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:18:58 +0200

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> karipuf a crit



> >I would like to make a custom tea blend incorporating nettles,

> >licorice and tea and I was wondering if there were likely to be any

> >interactions between these herbs in the tea.

> 

> Which nettle? Some contain digitaline (digitalus).



What a preposterous statement.



Nettles do not contain Digitalis toxins. For that you need to go to Digitalis.

Other heart glycosides can be found in Atropa, Hyoscyamus, Scopolia, Datura and

Duboisia, among others.



But nettles? Digitalis toxins? Heh. Not even dead nettles (Lamium sp.).



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:11:12 +0100

--------



Wakefield a crit dans le message <3bf7bef7_2@news.cybertours.com>...

>   I had also raised an eyebrow at that statement. Never heard of digitalis

>coming from nettle.



raising an eyebrow is much different than being rude and ignorant.  Cardiac

glycosides  are found in many plants.  While not found exactly as digatilis

in nettles, glucoides found in urtica diocica behave as digitalines  and are

used as a circluatory stimulant.  same is true of Securigera varia Lassus

coronilla. Digatilis is found in the same form in convallaria maialis (lilly

of the valley) and other plants.

  In short though popular with certain groups nettles can be dangerous

plants to use.  I would recommend a course in botany at a local college.



James









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:03:02 +0200

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



> Wakefield a crit:

> >   I had also raised an eyebrow at that statement. Never heard of digitalis

> >coming from nettle.

> 

> raising an eyebrow is much different than being rude and ignorant.  Cardiac

> glycosides  are found in many plants.  While not found exactly as digatilis

> in nettles, glucoides found in urtica diocica behave as digitalines  and are

> used as a circluatory stimulant.  same is true of Securigera varia Lassus

> coronilla. Digatilis is found in the same form in convallaria maialis (lilly

> of the valley) and other plants.



There are _NO_ heart glycosides in nettles. There is _NO_ risk to get heart

troubles from nettles.



Nettles (Urticaceae) are not in the _least_ related to Digitalis

(Scrophulariaceae) or Convallaria (Liliaceae).



So, what's your source?



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: Robyn James <herbalist@cableinet.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:59:43 GMT

--------

"maison.mousse" wrote:

> 

> Wakefield a crit dans le message <3bf7bef7_2@news.cybertours.com>...

> >   I had also raised an eyebrow at that statement. Never heard of digitalis

> >coming from nettle.

> 

> raising an eyebrow is much different than being rude and ignorant.  Cardiac

> glycosides  are found in many plants.  While not found exactly as digatilis

> in nettles, glucoides found in urtica diocica behave as digitalines  and are

> used as a circluatory stimulant.  same is true of Securigera varia Lassus

> coronilla. Digatilis is found in the same form in convallaria maialis (lilly

> of the valley) and other plants.

>   In short though popular with certain groups nettles can be dangerous

> plants to use.  I would recommend a course in botany at a local college.

> 

> James



Now you are following nonsense with more nonsense. Nettles have a long

history of liberal use as a vegetable with the only danger being that of

the unpleasant sting, and digitalis is not found in Convallaria,

although it does contain a group of cardiac glycosides - the

convallatoxins. I would recommend the botany course to you, sir.



Robyn





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: mixing herbs

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:45:59 +0200

--------

Robyn James <herbalist@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:



> Now you are following nonsense with more nonsense. Nettles have a long

> history of liberal use as a vegetable with the only danger being that of

> the unpleasant sting, and digitalis is not found in Convallaria,

> although it does contain a group of cardiac glycosides - the

> convallatoxins. I would recommend the botany course to you, sir.



And a bit of pharmacognosy too. Digitalis is a plant genus, not a constituent.

Thus, if you find Digitalis in your Convallaria, you've _planted_ it there.



But maisonmousse's is such an outrageous claim that I think we've a troll on our

hands. Go back under your bridge, you bore us.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: lice/dry hair

From: "Dana" <oldking69@home.com>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:11:04 GMT

--------

Hi all,



Hoping you can help...my friend just wrote this to me, and now I'm asking

you for her.  Here's her question:



My two girls are aged 8 and 12 years. They have the long and thick hair. The

dry Australian heat is already hitting Adelaide and my girls have been

continuously infested with head lice. I have tried every chemical product at

the chemist & I am now convinced they don't work and seeing their hair look

dry and lifeless is really upsetting.  I have tried tea tree oil & lavender

through their hair B4 school, but come the week end the fumigation, soaking,

combing and tears has me at the end of my tether.  Please help on any advice

I would be forever grateful.



TIA,



Dana C.















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: lice/dry hair

From: jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie)

Date: 18 Nov 2001 18:16:50 GMT

--------

Dana <oldking69@home.com> wrote:

> Hi all,

> 

> Hoping you can help...my friend just wrote this to me, and now I'm asking

> you for her.  Here's her question:

> 

> My two girls are aged 8 and 12 years. They have the long and thick hair. The

> dry Australian heat is already hitting Adelaide and my girls have been

> continuously infested with head lice. I have tried every chemical product at

> the chemist & I am now convinced they don't work and seeing their hair look

> dry and lifeless is really upsetting.  I have tried tea tree oil & lavender

> through their hair B4 school, but come the week end the fumigation, soaking,

> combing and tears has me at the end of my tether.  Please help on any advice

> I would be forever grateful.



Coat their heads thickly with mayonaisse or petroleum jelly.  This

smothers any live lice and loosens the nit (egg) "glue" from the hairs.

Cover with a shower cap overnight, and shampoo out in the morning.

Carefully use a nit comb to remove eggs - try to get a metal nit comb, as

the plastic ones sometimes have teeth too far apart to get all the nits.

Repeat weekly until the problem is gone.



If possible, put the bedclothes in a trash bag sprayed with any bug spray

that contains pyrethrins for at least a week -- that will be long enough

for nits in the bedding to hatch and be killed.   Otherwise, wash all

bedding in hot water and dry in a very hot drier, and boil their combs

and hairbrushes.



-- 

  jamie  (mjwm@cox-internet.com)



  		"There's a seeker born every minute."







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: lice/dry hair

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:49:09 -0600

--------

"Dana" <oldking69@home.com> wrote



> Hi all,

>

> Hoping you can help...my friend just wrote this to me, and now I'm asking

> you for her.  Here's her question:

>

> My two girls are aged 8 and 12 years. They have the long and thick hair.

The

> dry Australian heat is already hitting Adelaide and my girls have been

> continuously infested with head lice. I have tried every chemical product

at

> the chemist & I am now convinced they don't work and seeing their hair

look

> dry and lifeless is really upsetting.  I have tried tea tree oil &

lavender

> through their hair B4 school, but come the week end the fumigation,

soaking,

> combing and tears has me at the end of my tether.  Please help on any

advice

> I would be forever grateful.



Tea tree oil put into their shampoo, 5 drops to the ounce, and wash daily

for two weeks.



Do the usual vacuum of the whole house, wash all bedclothes in hot water and

dry in hot dryer, boil all combs, brushes etc and put any and all stuffed

animals in plastic bags for two weeks.



Ok, so you've probably done that.



What works - it ain't herbal - is to use a temporary hair color on them.

Pick one that matches their natural color and washes out in 30 or so

shampoos.  It will kill the lice and eggs, loosen the eggs and make them

easier to comb out and lice don't seem to care much for color treated hair.

It should also restore the shine to their hair.



Meanwhile, do the rest of the usual stuff and comb through very thoroughly

with a metal lice comb daily for two weeks.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: lice/dry hair

From: "Lili" <jaroen@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:55:10 GMT

--------

i have had head lice twice ( years apart ) and after getting rid of them

each time i got them  again from my pillow. so you have to deal with your

bedding, pillows and such.  the girls get reinfected that way.  also one of

their friends may have lice unknowingly or repeatedly.  the house of that

schoolmate may have infected pillows etc. that your girls get into. i am

speaking from experience here.  many people are so ashamed of having lice

they won't tell anyone and that is how others get infected/infested.  i left

that awful white liquid on for 24 hours and that was that.  but if you are

in an area where there seem to be alot of lice about then people say to

shampoo one's hair daily. they say lice won't stay in daily shampooed hair.

  i have had my share of lice and seen many other people with it and i truly

think your girls are gettig them back from their pillows or a school mate or

a school mate's pillows.  like, when the girls lie about on the floor and

tell stories or what ever, well, their hair lays out and touches the hair

from the lice infected girl. it's a short walf for a louse to go down one

girl's hair onto the next girls hair although the girls may be feet apart.

this has happened to me and that is how i got the bloody things in the first

place. good luck!  i am sure you will get rid of them by being alert. you

will find out why they are recurring.

"Dana" <oldking69@home.com> wrote in message

news:s4RJ7.149258$IR4.49576943@news1.denver1.co.home.com...

> Hi all,

>

> Hoping you can help...my friend just wrote this to me, and now I'm asking

> you for her.  Here's her question:

>

> My two girls are aged 8 and 12 years. They have the long and thick hair.

The

> dry Australian heat is already hitting Adelaide and my girls have been

> continuously infested with head lice. I have tried every chemical product

at

> the chemist & I am now convinced they don't work and seeing their hair

look

> dry and lifeless is really upsetting.  I have tried tea tree oil &

lavender

> through their hair B4 school, but come the week end the fumigation,

soaking,

> combing and tears has me at the end of my tether.  Please help on any

advice

> I would be forever grateful.

>

> TIA,

>

> Dana C.

>

>

>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: lice/dry hair

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 05:56:27 -0700

--------

"Dana" <oldking69@home.com> wrote:



>Hi all,

>

>Hoping you can help...my friend just wrote this to me, and now I'm asking

>you for her.  Here's her question:

>

>My two girls are aged 8 and 12 years. They have the long and thick hair. The

>dry Australian heat is already hitting Adelaide and my girls have been

>continuously infested with head lice.



They are getting REinfected from somewhere, perhaps a friend or

from their own pillows or hair ornaments. 



Let them know the rules:

1. NEVER share hair ornaments or grooming tools

2. NEVER share hats, scarves, etc.  



Kill the environmental ones

1. Put all the non-washable things in a large black trash bag,

seal it and place it in the hot sun for several days.  KILLS the

egs and adults. 

2. Run all their bedding and other washables through with

detergent and washing soda (borax)

3. Wash all grooming tools in hot water with soap and ammonia,

dry in the sun.



The fix for the lice and the dry hair problem too is any light

vegetable oil (or mayonnaise).  Comb out their hair, apply oil

liberally from scalp to tip, cover with a plastic cap, and leave

it for several hours to overnight.  Long hair can be braided into

several thin braids to make it manageable, as long as you make

sure they are SOAKED with the oil.  Pin these up and the girls

can play during the treatment. 



Then dilute 1 spoonful dishwashing liquid with warm water and

massage through the hair to remove most of the oil.  Follow with

shampooing and rinsing as usual.  With long hair, don't do the

"scrubbing against the scalp" lathering motion.  Just work the

shampoo from scalp to ends along the strands to keep tangles to a

minimum.  



Comb and blow dry.  Regular use of a curling or straightening

iron on the hair near the scalp minimizes re-infection, because

it kills the eggs. 



Than contact the school and let them know there is a louse

problem.  These can reinfect from child to child for months until

the parents ALL do the treatment on the same day and repeat is in

10 days.  





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Grapefruit Seed Extract

From: cxk69@yahoo.com (Chris)

Date: 18 Nov 2001 09:19:39 -0800

--------

Just started taking it myself, hopfully I will have something to say

about it soon. Good question about the flora, I doubt it upsets it but

I am taking probiotics along side the GSE so I might not notice if it

did.













Daniel Dorff <ddorff@danieldorff.com> wrote in message news:<1hf9tt01qna6pr5h8i6o5vg0nuvlrc38g8@4ax.com>...

> Has anyone had experience with NutriBiotic's Grapefruit Seed Extract capsules or 

> drops?  I've read it's a broad-reaching antibiotic, and their webpage shows some

> statistics illustrating this, though of course I know I'm reading their ad.

> 

> I've heard it's effective against bacteria and viruses but I wonder if it kills

> off lots of bacteria whether that upsets intestinal good flora, etc.

> 

> Thanks for any advice or experience!





==========

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Are we all too clean? (was: Enjoy those pecans...)

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:00:11 -0500

--------

"bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:%dMJ7.5097$tm3.805762@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...

> There's the theory that we're all too clean these days.  

> Southhampton University have tried vaccinating people who have

> allergic asthma with certain soil bacteria and have had a lot of

> success.   I think there's some bigger trials ongoing.   Our

> lack of exposure to many bugs  these days can mean the immune

> system goes 'looking for trouble' in other directions

> apparently.    Childhood vaccinations only stimulate part of the

> immune system - I believe scientists are looking to modify them

> so they give the whole immune system something to do.   Had a

> really interesting article about it but it got deleted- should

> have kept it!



Paralytic polio may have gotten very bad in the first half of the 20th

century because sanitary sewers came into widespread use. This supposedly

resulted in children not coming into contact with multi-strain polio

viruses until much later in life, when the paralytic types produce a much

more devastating illness in a fully-formed peripheral nerve system.



Of course that led to the current Sabin polio vaccine program. Since the

symptoms of 30-years-later post-polio syndrome and symptoms of chronic

fatigue syndrome are the same, (report of a '90's post-polio conference) 

there is an *unproved* suspicion that chronic fatigue syndrome may be

somehow related to Sabin vaccination. If there really is a relationship,

Sabin attenuated-live-polio vaccine might either cause a silent case of

polio worse than we realize, or maybe Sabin simply fails to protect us

from silent non-paralytic polio, which we use to get from sewage exposure

as infants.



Sean

---





> > I SWEAR you NEVER heard boo about this [allergenic tree nuts] a

> > generation ago. Or do you think people have changed, or the nuts

> > have changed, or there has been some type of environmental shift

> > that has primed people to have more severe food allergies?

> > -- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that

> > refuses to stay between the lines when parking --









==========

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Are we all too clean? (was: Enjoy those pecans...)

From: wright@clam.prodigy.net (David Wright)

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 04:34:19 GMT

--------

In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.1011118143631.27481B-100000@ASARian.org>,

Foxfire  <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote:



>Of course that led to the current Sabin polio vaccine program. Since the

>symptoms of 30-years-later post-polio syndrome and symptoms of chronic

>fatigue syndrome are the same, (report of a '90's post-polio conference) 

>there is an *unproved* suspicion that chronic fatigue syndrome may be

>somehow related to Sabin vaccination. If there really is a relationship,

>Sabin attenuated-live-polio vaccine might either cause a silent case of

>polio worse than we realize, or maybe Sabin simply fails to protect us

>from silent non-paralytic polio, which we use to get from sewage exposure

>as infants.



That last speculation is pretty dubious, in my opinion.  However, it's

becoming moot, as Sabin is removed and replaced by Salk again.



  -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net 

     These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.

       "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants

                  were standing on my shoulders."







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001)

Date: 19 Nov 2001 14:24:32 GMT

--------

Anyone know of any Herbs or other nutrients

that will reduce high levels of Cortisol?



Thanks,

Tony





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:25:04 -0500 (EST)

--------

"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011119092432.15382.00000496@mb-mm.aol.com...

> Anyone know of any Herbs or other nutrients

> that will reduce high levels of Cortisol? > Thanks, > Tony



Maybe, but more info is needed to construct a holistic health picture that

herbalists can work with.



How do you know you have high levels of cortisol hormone?

Can you tell us a test number, like micrograms per deciliter (ug/dL) of

blood serum?

If tested, what time of day was your test, and how long had you been

fasting?

If tested, what else were you tested for (generally), and did you have any

other abnormal tests?

Do you have an allopathic diagnosis, or any known high-cortisol-associated

symptoms?

Do you usually feel warm or cool, and do you like/dislike heaters or

coolers?

Do you usually feel moist or dry, and do you like/dislike moist air or dry

air?



Sean

---











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001)

Date: 21 Nov 2001 14:10:53 GMT

--------

No one knows of any?



Tony





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:15:07 +0200

--------

tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001) wrote:



> No one knows of any?



Herbalists generally do a full evaluation when the trouble is a bit more

insidious. That means that you won't get sensible advice on a question like

yours, where you haven't given half enough facts.



In other words, there are no magic pills. If somebody tries to sell you one, for

something like too high cortisol, he/she's a quack.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001)

Date: 22 Nov 2001 11:31:30 GMT

--------

>Henriette Kress hetta@saunalahti.fi 

wrote:

>tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001) wrote:

>

>> No one knows of any?

>

>Herbalists generally do a full evaluation when the trouble is a bit more

>insidious. That means that you won't get sensible advice on a question like

>yours, where you haven't given half enough facts.

>

>In other words, there are no magic pills. If somebody tries to sell you one,

>for

>something like too high cortisol, he/she's a quack.

>

>Cheers

>Henriette



I didn't realize that I was here for the 3rd degree, I simply wanted a question

answered. I've seen all kinds of post here asking various questions and never

have I seen anyone have to answer a slew of questions to get an answer, until

now.



Tony





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:59:50 -0000

--------



I guess she's asking what do you need the cortisol for as it can be used for

a large number of conditions.    There isn't one herb that will cover

everything cortisol does, but may be one which can help for a particular

problem.







"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011122063130.13090.00002633@mb-mg.aol.com...

>

> I didn't realize that I was here for the 3rd degree, I simply wanted a

question

> answered. I've seen all kinds of post here asking various questions and

never

> have I seen anyone have to answer a slew of questions to get an answer,

until

> now.

>

> Tony









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:41:41 +0200

--------

tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001) wrote:



> I didn't realize that I was here for the 3rd degree, I simply wanted a question

> answered. I've seen all kinds of post here asking various questions and never

> have I seen anyone have to answer a slew of questions to get an answer, until

> now.



If you want a valid reply to a simple question you get it with very little

information.



If you want a valid reply to a complex question you need to give complex

information. 



That's not 3rd degree, that's common sense.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001)

Date: 23 Nov 2001 14:55:14 GMT

--------

> Henriette Kress hetta@saunalahti.fi 

wrote:

>tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001) wrote:

>

>> I didn't realize that I was here for the 3rd degree, I simply wanted a

>question

>> answered. I've seen all kinds of post here asking various questions and

>never

>> have I seen anyone have to answer a slew of questions to get an answer,

>until

>> now.

>

>If you want a valid reply to a simple question you get it with very little

>information.



And you gave be ZERO information, all I asked was which herbs will reduce

Cortisol levels, what's so hard about that?



Tony





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:35:24 +0200

--------

tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001) wrote:

> > Henriette Kress hetta@saunalahti.fi  wrote:



> >If you want a valid reply to a simple question you get it with very little

> >information.

> 

> And you gave be ZERO information, all I asked was which herbs will reduce

> Cortisol levels, what's so hard about that?



Your question is not simple.



Or, sure, it is: you'll find ZERO herbs that reduce cortisol levels.



If you expand it into a complex question, you might find herbs that help with

your underlying PROBLEM.



But you have to give more information for that.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:31:10 -0500

--------

Henriette Kress hetta@saunalahti.fi  wrote:

> tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001) wrote:

> > I didn't realize that I was here for the 3rd degree, I simply

> > wanted a question answered. I've seen all kinds of post here

> > asking various questions and never have I seen anyone have to

> > answer a slew of questions to get an answer, until now. > Tony



> Henriette Kress hetta@saunalahti.fi  wrote:

> If you want a valid reply to a simple question you get it with 

> very little information.

> If you want a valid reply to a complex question you need to give 

> complex information. 

> That's not 3rd degree, that's common sense. > Henriette





A.f.h most frequently serves as a Board of Triage (could be life

threatening-- see a doc!) or Board of Second Opinion (there are better

options than having your gall bladder taken out!). While the traditional

herbal diagnosis questions are not often seen here, they are available if

needed. Frankly, I wish every herbal advice requester would tell a.f.h

their heat and moisture balance, because allopathic docs don't fully check

this, and with it I think a.f.h responders could give overall better

advice.



Folks seeking herbal advice in a.f.h usually name a known disease (usually

diagnosed by allopaths who are usually pretty good at that). Or tell us

how they feel (pains, depression, etc), and maybe say their docs can't

find anything much wrong. The latter may be "pre-disease", little taught

to allopaths but well-known to herbalists (particularly Traditional

Chinese Medicine (TCM/CHM) practitioners).



High cortisol is not a specific disease, nor a symptom which can be

described without blood or saliva tests using high tech chemical

instrumentation.  Thus questions 1 thru 3. If you have had a prescription

cortisol test, and it's abnormal, your allodoc either does or doesn't know

what's causing it, and both of those possibilities are useful info to

herbalists. Thus questions 4 & 5. 



If one has the excess cortisol of Cushing's Syndrome "Therapy is directed

at correcting the hyperfunction of the pituitary gland or the adrenal

cortex; the precise approach depends on the underlying physiologic

abnormality." (Merck's Manual 13th) In other words, one might have either

a pituitary or an adrenal tumor, and it would be good to know which one. 



Another problem with your question is that it suggests that herbs work

just like drugs. They often don't. For example aminoglutethimide is a drug

which suppresses excess cortisol, but I'm not immediately aware of a herb

which is that anti-cortisol specific or potent. With library research,

perhaps I could locate a suitable Euro-American herb or herb formula for

that purpose. But that herb or formula might or might not address the

underlying cause of the excess cortisol. 



Alternatively, the TCM/CHM herbal system is much less interested in

finding underlying causes, and more interested in overall patterns of

symptoms. But wow, to determine patterns of symptoms TCM practitioners not

only ask questions 6 & 7 (heat balance & moisture balance), they also do a

tongue inspection, pulse diagnosis, diet summary, etc. And all

professional practitioners, allopath or alternative, take a complete

health history. 



Anyway, best of luck with your condition whatever its cause.

Sean

---





Henriette Kress hetta@saunalahti.fi  wrote:

> tonyz2001@aol.com (TonyZ2001) wrote:

> > Anyone know of any Herbs or other nutrients

> > that will reduce high levels of Cortisol? > Tony

>

> > Foxfire wrote:

> > > [...]

> > > How do you know you have high levels of cortisol hormone?

> > > Can you tell us a test number, like micrograms per deciliter

> > > (ug/dL) of blood serum?

> > > If tested, what time of day was your test, and how long had you

> > > been fasting?

> > > If tested, what else were you tested for (generally), and did

> > > you have any other abnormal tests?

> > > Do you have an allopathic diagnosis, or any known high-cortisol-

> > > associated symptoms?

> > > Do you usually feel warm or cool, and do you like/dislike

> > > heaters or coolers?

> > > Do you usually feel moist or dry, and do you like/dislike moist

> > > air or dry air? [...] > Sean

>

> > No one knows of any?

>

> Herbalists generally do a full evaluation when the trouble is a

> bit more insidious. That means that you won't get sensible

> advice on a question like yours, where you haven't given half

> enough facts.

>

> In other words, there are no magic pills. If somebody tries to

> sell you one, for something like too high cortisol, he/she's a

> quack. >Henriette











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:48:15 -0600

--------

"Foxfire" <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote

>

> A.f.h most frequently serves as a Board of Triage (could be life

> threatening-- see a doc!) or Board of Second Opinion (there are better

> options than having your gall bladder taken out!). While the traditional

> herbal diagnosis questions are not often seen here, they are available if

> needed. Frankly, I wish every herbal advice requester would tell a.f.h

> their heat and moisture balance, because allopathic docs don't fully check

> this, and with it I think a.f.h responders could give overall better

> advice.



I suspect most do not know their heat and moisture balance.  I certainly do

not know mine.



> Folks seeking herbal advice in a.f.h usually name a known disease (usually

> diagnosed by allopaths who are usually pretty good at that). Or tell us

> how they feel (pains, depression, etc), and maybe say their docs can't

> find anything much wrong. The latter may be "pre-disease", little taught

> to allopaths but well-known to herbalists (particularly Traditional

> Chinese Medicine (TCM/CHM) practitioners).

>

> High cortisol is not a specific disease, nor a symptom which can be

> described without blood or saliva tests using high tech chemical

> instrumentation.  Thus questions 1 thru 3. If you have had a prescription

> cortisol test, and it's abnormal, your allodoc either does or doesn't know

> what's causing it, and both of those possibilities are useful info to

> herbalists. Thus questions 4 & 5.

>

> If one has the excess cortisol of Cushing's Syndrome "Therapy is directed

> at correcting the hyperfunction of the pituitary gland or the adrenal

> cortex; the precise approach depends on the underlying physiologic

> abnormality." (Merck's Manual 13th) In other words, one might have either

> a pituitary or an adrenal tumor, and it would be good to know which one.

>

> Another problem with your question is that it suggests that herbs work

> just like drugs. They often don't. For example aminoglutethimide is a drug

> which suppresses excess cortisol, but I'm not immediately aware of a herb

> which is that anti-cortisol specific or potent. With library research,

> perhaps I could locate a suitable Euro-American herb or herb formula for

> that purpose. But that herb or formula might or might not address the

> underlying cause of the excess cortisol.

>

> Alternatively, the TCM/CHM herbal system is much less interested in

> finding underlying causes, and more interested in overall patterns of

> symptoms. But wow, to determine patterns of symptoms TCM practitioners not

> only ask questions 6 & 7 (heat balance & moisture balance), they also do a

> tongue inspection, pulse diagnosis, diet summary, etc. And all

> professional practitioners, allopath or alternative, take a complete

> health history.

>

> Anyway, best of luck with your condition whatever its cause.



Ah, since this is a TCM approach, no wonder I do not know mine.  I've never

consulted a TCM practitioner.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to reduce Cortisol?

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:03:02 -0600

--------

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:48:15 -0600, "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

wrote:



>

>I suspect most do not know their heat and moisture balance.  I certainly do

>not know mine.



Nor do I.  Could one of the TCM people here tell us if it's easy for

an individual to find their own or is it something that only a trained

practitioner can measure?



-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbs for Alopecia

From: "JT" <Toire@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:18:19 GMT

--------

Looking for herbs to help with alopecia.



TIA









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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for Alopecia

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 21 Nov 2001 00:24:21 GMT

--------



> Looking for herbs to help with alopecia.



I've had this.  It has multiple causes, but the worst single one in

my case seems to be food intolerance to egg (any amount in any form).



So, I suspect the answer may be removing something from your diet

rather than adding it.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for Alopecia

From: "Axel Grease" <Axel@NoSpam.com>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:37:18 -0500

--------

bogus address wrote in message <8361@purr.demon.co.uk>...

>> Looking for herbs to help with alopecia.

>I've had this.  It has multiple causes, but the worst single one in

>my case seems to be food intolerance to egg (any amount in any form).

>So, I suspect the answer may be removing something from your diet

>rather than adding it.





Sensitivity to eggs made your hair fall out?

Seems odd.

Alopecia is usually from an excess of Androgens, and in men, an excess of

the enzyme

5-Alpha Reductase... same thing that plays a big roll in BPH.



High fevers can kill hair follicles too.



Raising children just makes one have gray hair,

and then tear it out by hand.



Axel









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for Alopecia

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 21 Nov 2001 11:48:12 GMT

--------



>>> Looking for herbs to help with alopecia.

>> I've had this.  It has multiple causes, but the worst single one in

>> my case seems to be food intolerance to egg

> Sensitivity to eggs made your hair fall out?  Seems odd.

> Alopecia is usually from an excess of Androgens, and in men, an excess

> of the enzyme 5-Alpha Reductase...



I assumed the original poster was talking about alopecia areata, which

is what I get and which has no correlation with any hormonal factor

(except it is sometimes treated by intradermal injections of gluco-

corticoids, not very successfully).  It seems to be an auto-immune

condition, and Sean's explanation of why egg might trigger it is quite

reasonable (except that leaky gut is unlikely to be involved; enough

egg protein gets through to cause illness in lots of people with no

gut problems, it doesn't take much).



I don't have any problem with Allium vegetables (another high-sulfur

food) - in fact I suspect they even help control the alopecia - so the

suggestion that it's specifically sulfur-containing proteins seems on

the mark.



Male pattern baldness is not an illness and never needs treatment.  I've

got that too.  My head gets cold sometimes.  Big deal, I can put a hat on.

Weirdly distributed patches of missing hair are bit harder to cope with.





> same thing that plays a big roll in BPH.



WTF does that TLA mean?



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for Alopecia

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:44:45 -0500

--------

"bogus address" <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:8364@purr.demon.co.uk...

> >>Grifty121 wrote:

> >>> Looking for herbs to help with alopecia.

> >bogus address wrote:

> >> I've had this.  It has multiple causes, but the worst single one in

> >> my case seems to be food intolerance to egg

> Axel Grease wrote:

> > Sensitivity to eggs made your hair fall out?  Seems odd.

> > Alopecia is usually from an excess of Androgens, and in men, an excess

> > of the enzyme 5-Alpha Reductase...

> 

> I assumed the original poster was talking about alopecia areata, which

> is what I get and which has no correlation with any hormonal factor

> (except it is sometimes treated by intradermal injections of gluco-

> corticoids, not very successfully).  It seems to be an auto-immune

> condition, and Sean's explanation of why egg might trigger it is quite

> reasonable (except that leaky gut is unlikely to be involved; enough

> egg protein gets through to cause illness in lots of people with no

> gut problems, it doesn't take much).

> 

> I don't have any problem with Allium vegetables (another high-sulfur

> food) - in fact I suspect they even help control the alopecia - so the

> suggestion that it's specifically sulfur-containing proteins seems on

> the mark.

>

[snip]



An alternate theoretical cause of leaky gut does not involve direct villi

damage by specific food intolerance as observed in celiac disease. In the

alternate, low levels of adrenal and/or thyroid simply fail to populate

the intestinal walls with a thick enough coat of daily new cells to

prevent all undigested whole protein migration to the bloodstream. 

Low-adrenal is a widespread problem (also commonly recognized as Deficient

Kidney in TCM), so at least minor egg protein leaks would also be widely

expected.  And, alas, both specific food intolerance and low-hormone thin

lining can simultaneously be present.



For glucorticoids to help build a thin, leaky gut, they must enter the gut

via the liver and gall bladder, and then return through the gut wall into

the mesentery blood.  Hydrocortisone would do that since it is natural

cortisol in pills. I don't know for sure whether the allopath-preferred

semi-synthetics like intradermal prednisone, if used for alopecia areata,

would have that natural behavior.



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs for Alopecia

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:59:15 -0500 (EST)

--------

"Axel Grease" <Axel@NoSpam.com> wrote in message

news:3bfb4bb6$0$35622$4c5ecdc7@news.erinet.com...

> bogus address wrote in message <8361@purr.demon.co.uk>...

> > JT wrote:

> > > Looking for herbs to help with alopecia.

>

> > I've had this.  It has multiple causes, but the worst single

> > one in my case seems to be food intolerance to egg (any amount

> > in any form). So, I suspect the answer may be removing something

> > from your diet rather than adding it.

>

> Sensitivity to eggs made your hair fall out? Seems odd.

> Alopecia is usually from an excess of Androgens, and in men, an

> excess of the enzyme 5-Alpha Reductase... same thing that plays

> a big roll in BPH. High fevers can kill hair follicles too.

> Raising children just makes one have gray hair, and then tear it

> out by hand. > Axel



Here's one egg-alopecia scenario that could make sense: 



Food intolerance in celiac disease (wheat gluten intolerance) is known to

damage the vili of the intestine, possibly causing "leaky gut". This could

happen in other food intolerances as well. Undigested whole proteins could

"leak" into the blood stream where they are attacked by antibodies. If any

of those proteins somewhat resemble body proteins, autoimmune co-attack on

the body protein also occurs, hair in this case. 



One of the things that eggs and hair have in common is sulfur, IIRC, an

element of the amino acid methionine. MSM theory I heard on a promotion

tape claimed that biosulfur bearing proteins are relatively rare in food.

(MSM and DMSO are sources of biosulfer repair molecules, and DMSO also has

other useful properties).



Herbs to boost adrenal and/or thyroid function also would be expected to

build the gut wall faster and thicker. Both adrenal and thyroid are needed

in relatively large amounts to transcribe DNA into new intestine-lining

cell proteins on a daily basis. Hormone trouble can thus lead to digestion

trouble, and then other troubles in chain-links. 



Sean

---











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx>

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:21:56 -0800

--------

My cat is a pure breed Parisian cat , she isn't fixed because I don't

know if I will breed her or not yet. Anyway when she comes into heat ,

she has alot of pain and it seems to happen longer then with most cats.

The cry from the pain is not the same , as when she is calling a male

cat. Plus the poor thing can't move to good from it , anyway I'm told

some cats get like that. So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I was

told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

anything down. So this time I gave her a 1/2 of a 40 mg black cohosh

extract caplet , she is now much better ( laying on her chair ) and she

ant even mad at me for making her take it anymore he he he !!!



Other then this problem she is in good health , I had to force her mouth

open and put the 1/2 caplet in. She almost bit her mouth ( trying to get

it to come out ), she will not take anything in her food so that is out.

Does anyone know any better way for me to give her pills ??? as I don't

want her to bite her self taking it , plus it doesn't help if she gets

upset over it.



Thank !! T.A.S.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:09:52 -0000

--------



"taschlauch" <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote in message

news:3BFA20B4.BE94A055@lockhavenonline.xxx...

> My cat is a pure breed Parisian cat , she isn't fixed because I don't

> know if I will breed her or not yet. Anyway when she comes into heat ,

> she has alot of pain and it seems to happen longer then with most cats.

> The cry from the pain is not the same , as when she is calling a male

> cat. Plus the poor thing can't move to good from it , anyway I'm told

> some cats get like that. So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I was

> told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

> anything down. So this time I gave her a 1/2 of a 40 mg black cohosh

> extract caplet , she is now much better ( laying on her chair ) and she

> ant even mad at me for making her take it anymore he he he !!!

>

> Other then this problem she is in good health , I had to force her mouth

> open and put the 1/2 caplet in. She almost bit her mouth ( trying to get

> it to come out ), she will not take anything in her food so that is out.

> Does anyone know any better way for me to give her pills ??? as I don't

> want her to bite her self taking it , plus it doesn't help if she gets

> upset over it.

>

> Thank !! T.A.S.



Is this a serious post or are you just trolling?????



Carry on giving your cat those medications and you will kill her. Ibuprofen

is extremely toxic to cats and will cause severe stomach ulceration. No

wonder the poor thing can't eat.



I suggest you seek veterinary advice IMMEDIATELY and NEVER give human

medications to animals without veterinary consent.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: striket@stu.beloit.edunospam (Terrie Strike)

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:04:59 GMT

--------

In article <3BFA20B4.BE94A055@lockhavenonline.xxx>, taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote:

>My cat is a pure breed Parisian cat , she isn't fixed because I don't

>know if I will breed her or not yet. 



You do not know enough to be breeding this cat. And the last thing the world 

needs is more cats. And *persians* are one of the most over bred breeds there 

are. Go get her spayed before you kill her trying to breed her. Breeding is 

very risky and very expensive. It's not for most people.



-Terrie





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 21 Nov 2001 12:01:12 GMT

--------



> My cat is a pure breed Parisian cat , she isn't fixed because I don't

> know if I will breed her or not yet. Anyway when she comes into heat ,

> she has alot of pain and it seems to happen longer then with most cats.

> The cry from the pain is not the same , as when she is calling a male

> cat. Plus the poor thing can't move to good from it , anyway I'm told

> some cats get like that. So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I

> was told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

> anything down.



You have quite likely given your cat irreparable damage to the liver

and kidneys.



You *must* get the cat to a vet immediately, as palliative treatment for

the poisoning may add years to the animal's life.  But after what you've

done to her, pregnancy is out of the question, and female cats that go

into heat repeatedly without getting pregnant are likely to get acute

abdominal sepsis.



It might be better if you just gave the poor thing to a cat rescue

organization and asked them to find a new owner with a clue.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:37:13 -0000

--------



"bogus address" <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:8365@purr.demon.co.uk...

>

> > My cat is a pure breed Parisian cat , she isn't fixed because I don't

> > know if I will breed her or not yet. Anyway when she comes into heat ,

> > she has alot of pain and it seems to happen longer then with most cats.

> > The cry from the pain is not the same , as when she is calling a male

> > cat. Plus the poor thing can't move to good from it , anyway I'm told

> > some cats get like that. So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I

> > was told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

> > anything down.

>

> You have quite likely given your cat irreparable damage to the liver

> and kidneys.

>

> You *must* get the cat to a vet immediately, as palliative treatment for

> the poisoning may add years to the animal's life.  But after what you've

> done to her, pregnancy is out of the question, and female cats that go

> into heat repeatedly without getting pregnant are likely to get acute

> abdominal sepsis.

>

> It might be better if you just gave the poor thing to a cat rescue

> organization and asked them to find a new owner with a clue.



I agree with you completely (having previously warned this owner of

detrimental health to his/her cat)



However, I'm still suspicious of this being a troll, to provocate a

reaction. If not then this owner should seek veterinary advice immediately,

and cease owning cats till they learn how to care for one, pedigree or not.



I'm appalled at the insensitevity and lack of knowledge from this owner, and

wish I could subdue him/her to an equivalent sense of pain/suffering as

he/she has subjected to this cat.



I hope against all hope that this cat receives appropriate veterinary care.



Chloe VN (UK)











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 05:58:25 -0700

--------

taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote:



>My cat is a pure breed Parisian cat , she isn't fixed because I don't

>know if I will breed her or not yet. 



  Get a breeder's opinion on whether she is good enough quality

to bother breeding.  Put her in a couple of cat shows and see how

she does.  Beuing "purebred" is not enough, she has to be a good

example of the breed AND be in excellent health.





>Anyway when she comes into heat ,

  How old is she?  Cats that aren't spayed and not bred for

several years can get all kinds of problems, including cancer ...

so either breed her or put her out of her misery.



>she has alot of pain and it seems to happen longer then with most cats.

>The cry from the pain is not the same , as when she is calling a male

>cat. Plus the poor thing can't move to good from it , anyway I'm told

>some cats get like that.



  What does your vet say, after a thorough exam of her.  YOU

sound rather indifferent to the pain she's in. 



>So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I was

>told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

>anything down. 

  So ... who told you cats could take Ibuprofen?  Did you ask the

vet.



>So this time I gave her a 1/2 of a 40 mg black cohosh

>extract caplet , she is now much better ( laying on her chair ) and she

>ant even mad at me for making her take it anymore he he he !!!



  And what gave you the idea that herbs are good for cats?  They

have non-human metabolisms and can be hurt by doses of things

that are safe for human infants. 



>Other then this problem she is in good health



  So other than enduring repeated PAINFUL sessions of heat while

you dither over whether you want her to have kittens or not ...

she's in great shape.  How long do you plan to let this keep

happening to her? 





> I had to force her mouth

>open and put the 1/2 caplet in. She almost bit her mouth ( trying to get

>it to come out ), she will not take anything in her food so that is out.

>Does anyone know any better way for me to give her pills ??? 



  FIX THE PROBLEM - either get her evaluated for breeding and

breed her or have her spayed.  A better way to allow you to

postpone your decision merely risks the cat's health.





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:50:25 -0500 (EST)

--------

taschlauch wrote:

> So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I was

> told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

> anything down. So this time I gave her a 1/2 of a 40 mg black cohosh

> extract caplet , she is now much better [...]



[snip of abrasive responses]



Dear taschlauch-- sorry you are having a bad time with your cat, your

desire to help your cat, and some of the a.f.h folks who think your cat is

more important than you are.



taschlauch has been around a.f.h long enough for me to believe that she is

clearly not a troll. She is learning healing arts. Maybe the hard way this

time, but it happens. There's a grim saying among med students that one is

not a real doc until one has killed one's first patient. (And it's a big

cat, so we don't know for sure that the its life will be short.)



If taschlauch has made the life-threatening ibuprofen mistake with her cat

that you folks think she has, she probably feels bad enough about it

without the incidental verbal abuse. I know I would. Why aren't you all

offering her some sympathy along with the facts and vet urgency? 



Were y'all weaned too soon?



Sean

---





"taschlauch" <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote in message

news:3BFA20B4.BE94A055@lockhavenonline.xxx...

> My cat is a pure breed Parisian cat , she isn't fixed because I don't

> know if I will breed her or not yet. Anyway when she comes into heat ,

> she has alot of pain and it seems to happen longer then with most cats.

> The cry from the pain is not the same , as when she is calling a male

> cat. Plus the poor thing can't move to good from it , anyway I'm told

> some cats get like that. So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I was

> told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

> anything down. So this time I gave her a 1/2 of a 40 mg black cohosh

> extract caplet , she is now much better ( laying on her chair ) and she

> ant even mad at me for making her take it anymore he he he !!!

>

> Other then this problem she is in good health , I had to force her mouth

> open and put the 1/2 caplet in. She almost bit her mouth ( trying to get

> it to come out ), she will not take anything in her food so that is out.

> Does anyone know any better way for me to give her pills ??? as I don't

> want her to bite her self taking it , plus it doesn't help if she gets

> upset over it.











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:52:17 -0800

--------

HI !!!



I'm not a troll , I'm a guy just trying to help my cat. My cat was taking from

her mom to young , the owner selling her needed the money to keep their house.

So she sold all the breeded cats she had for $50 each ( she was a pro breeder

), norm would cost $1000.00 each. She said at that cheap of price , she would

not give any papers with her. I told her I didn't really care or need them ,

so I put the tiny kitten in my shirt pocket and went home with her. She would

not eat , so left her go for 1 day ( watched her closely ). Then holded her

for 2 days , and got her to eat for me. Well she got ok , and stays by my side

most of the time. 1st off I don't want to breed her to make money , 2nd I did

not know the Ibuprofen would hurt her ( my mom said to try it ).



But I do think herbs can be of a big help to cats , dogs or another pet for

that matter. I don't think many vets use herbs , just like many M.D.s don't

use herbs. And why because it only sold as a food supplyment , thanks to the

good old F.D.A. for that. Its a lie , or we could eat a bottle of black Cohosh

, and not have to worry about it. But we can not do that , most DR. say sure

you can take herbs. Because of what the F.D.A. calls them , they think well if

they think herbs will help them. I will let them take them , after all it

can't hurt. Well I forgot and started thinking that , and just gave my poor

cats the black cohosh. It is what women would take for that problem , so with

out thinking I just cut the amount for her size.



The only way to give the right herbs , and in the right dose is to learn about

it. Just as with herbs and people , but it looks like we all got alot of

learning to do. Before we can use herbs to treat our pets , but after all this

is what herbs are really about. Learning about our sicknesses , and how to

tell what sickness we have , and what herbs to use to treat it. And our pets

are most unable , to tell us what is hurting them. And most often have to wait

longer for treatment , because we think they will be ok in a day or 2. Or we

don't have the money to pay the vet if it ant bad , and some times they don't

ever get better because of it. There should have been many post on what herbs

, are used in what amounts , for what sicknesses for cats.



But none was posted , only you will kill the poor cat. Well I for one will

start learning , how to treat my best friend for the last five years. You can

buy a cats main shots , for about $4 over the internet without a vets script (

Needle Comes With It ). But yet where does one even start to learn , about

herbs for ones sick cat.



And to foxfire !! Thank You !!!



I was not going to post back til I read your post , and you are right I have

learned from this. Much to often we do learn the hard way , and I will indeed

keep learning about herbs for cats. Because giving drugs to your cats , is no

better then us taking drugs. Are we going to say , don't give that cat herbs

or you could kill her. But on the other hand say , the drugs the vet gives her

will not. The truth is the right herbs , in the right amounts , for the right

illness is way better then drugs any time it can be used over drugs. And your

post just made me thought about it , when I could have just not posted back at

all. So I'm glad I read your post , and I'm also glad I'm posting back.



taschlauch



I'M abit socked by all that I have read , and I'm not a



Foxfire wrote:



> taschlauch wrote:

> > So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I was

> > told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

> > anything down. So this time I gave her a 1/2 of a 40 mg black cohosh

> > extract caplet , she is now much better [...]

>

> [snip of abrasive responses]

>

> Dear taschlauch-- sorry you are having a bad time with your cat, your

> desire to help your cat, and some of the a.f.h folks who think your cat is

> more important than you are.

>

> taschlauch has been around a.f.h long enough for me to believe that she is

> clearly not a troll. She is learning healing arts. Maybe the hard way this

> time, but it happens. There's a grim saying among med students that one is

> not a real doc until one has killed one's first patient. (And it's a big

> cat, so we don't know for sure that the its life will be short.)

>

> If taschlauch has made the life-threatening ibuprofen mistake with her cat

> that you folks think she has, she probably feels bad enough about it

> without the incidental verbal abuse. I know I would. Why aren't you all

> offering her some sympathy along with the facts and vet urgency?

>

> Were y'all weaned too soon?

>

> Sean

> ---

>

> "taschlauch" <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote in message

> news:3BFA20B4.BE94A055@lockhavenonline.xxx...

> > My cat is a pure breed Parisian cat , she isn't fixed because I don't

> > know if I will breed her or not yet. Anyway when she comes into heat ,

> > she has alot of pain and it seems to happen longer then with most cats.

> > The cry from the pain is not the same , as when she is calling a male

> > cat. Plus the poor thing can't move to good from it , anyway I'm told

> > some cats get like that. So I gave her a Ibuprofen for the pain as I was

> > told it may help , she got sick from it for 3 days and can't hold

> > anything down. So this time I gave her a 1/2 of a 40 mg black cohosh

> > extract caplet , she is now much better ( laying on her chair ) and she

> > ant even mad at me for making her take it anymore he he he !!!

> >

> > Other then this problem she is in good health , I had to force her mouth

> > open and put the 1/2 caplet in. She almost bit her mouth ( trying to get

> > it to come out ), she will not take anything in her food so that is out.

> > Does anyone know any better way for me to give her pills ??? as I don't

> > want her to bite her self taking it , plus it doesn't help if she gets

> > upset over it.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:10:07 -0000

--------



"taschlauch" <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote in message

news:3BFF7BE1.720F7DB2@lockhavenonline.xxx...

> HI !!!

>

> I'm not a troll , I'm a guy just trying to help my cat.



Ok I apologise for calling you a troll, but your posts did sound like a very

extreme scenario trying to provoke shock response from its readers.



> My cat was taking from

> her mom to young , the owner selling her needed the money to keep their

house.

> So she sold all the breeded cats she had for $50 each ( she was a pro

breeder

> ), norm would cost $1000.00 each.



Then she was an extremely irresponsible breeder to let the kitten go to you

before she was ready. How old was she when you took her home? It doesn't

sound as though she was properly weaned, so I guess around 4 weeks old? A

kitten should not leave its mother till at least 8 weeks old.



<snip>



> 2nd I did not know the Ibuprofen would hurt her ( my mom said to try it ).



I don't wish to sound rude here, but I'm afraid you need to learn some basic

facts about caring for your cat. You are not a veterinary surgeon, therefore

cannot diagnose and treat your animal yourself. I am a qualified veterinary

nurse with considerable experience, yet I would NEVER attempt to diagnose

and treat one of my animals without advice from a vet first. Human

medications, although do cross the boundaries into veterinary medicine at

times, can be lethal to animals, as you have found out. Especially when you

have no knowledge of anatomy and physiology of your cat or the chemical

interactions of certain drugs.



I cannot stress again how important it is to get your cat to a veterinary

surgeon and have a full diagnosis done of her health. Please DO NOT attempt

to treat her yourself, herbal or otherwise without professional advice. I

would also advise that you do not attempt to breed from this cat from what

you have said about her history.



>

> But I do think herbs can be of a big help to cats , dogs or another pet

for

> that matter. I don't think many vets use herbs



There are quite a lot of homeopathic vets around, you just need to find one

in your area and consult him/her on the proper usage of herbs. Whether you

use conventional medicine or herbal remedies, again you still need a full

veterinary diagnosis of the cats health and prescribed an appropriate

treatment by the VET, not yourself. I found this link that may be of some

help to you.



http://www.blakkatz.com/homeopathy.html



> It is what women would take for that problem , so with out thinking I just

cut the amount for her size.



Have you discussed with a vet whether this treatment would be appropriate

for a cat, and if indeed it will cause any harm? I have no knowledge of this

particular herb so afraid I can't help you with it.



I'm sorry to have to keep going over this, but do you have a clear diagnosis

of what your cats problem is? It's no good associating her apparent pain

with menstrual cramps of women. Cats do not have menstrual cramps in the

same way. What you have described in your post, indicates to me a far more

serious underlying condition, which needs immediate diagnosis and treatment

from a vet. I cannot stress the importance of that enough.



> There should have been many post on what herbs, are used in what amounts ,

for what > sicknesses for cats.



Only a vet (homeopathic or otherwise) can advise on types and quantities of

treatment.



Please post back with more details of your cats health and behaviour etc and

I will help where I can. But I'm NOT a vet, only a nurse, therefore cannot

give you a diagnosis, but may be able to point you in the right direction.

Alternatively, try posting to alt.med.veterinary where there are a few vets

to answer queries on that newsgroup.



I wish you well and hope you will do your best for the cat, but please get

some proper advice before you do any more harm.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 24 Nov 2001 23:05:18 GMT

--------



> But I do think herbs can be of a big help to cats , dogs or another

> pet for that matter. [...]

> The only way to give the right herbs , and in the right dose is to

> learn about it. [...] There should have been many post on what herbs

> are used in what amounts , for what sicknesses for cats.



So you can use your cat as an experimental subject to learn on?



There is no reason to suppose herbal therapy for a cat is going to be

any easier than conventional.  Cats have *very* different physiologies

from people and you can transfer *nothing* of what you know about the

effects of herbs on humans.



I don't know of a veterinary herbalist around here (homoeopathic vets I

could find) but if there is one, they'll have spent many years learning

their trade and they'll have learnt it by digging out every bit of other

people's previous experience they can find rather than risk making an

animal suffer by gratuitous guesswork.



Fixing the after-effects of ibuprofen poisoning is not likely to be

something there's a herbal remedy for you can look up in a book.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:49:52 -0500

--------

On 24 Nov 2001 23:05:18 GMT bogus address <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> taschlauch wrote:

> > But I do think herbs can be of a big help to cats , dogs or

> > another pet for that matter. [...] The only way to give the

> > right herbs , and in the right dose is to learn about it. [...]

> > There should have been many post on what herbs are used in what

> > amounts , for what sicknesses for cats.

> 

> So you can use your cat as an experimental subject to learn on?



I assume taschlauch has financial issues like the rest of us. Like it or

not, one learns the limits of one's abilities by actually doing animal

care. I know I did. One makes the best judgements possible based on

advice, but tempered by money realities. 

 

> There is no reason to suppose herbal therapy for a cat is going

> to be any easier than conventional.  Cats have *very* different

> physiologies from people and you can transfer *nothing* of what

> you know about the effects of herbs on humans.



IMHO, I think that position is too extreme. Now a -reptile- has a very

different physiology, but even they have very similar cellular processes

(as do bacteria). Cats are mammals with all the same organs that we have.

What I think is most different is that cats primarily burn protein for

energy instead of carbohydrates. Hungry cats reportedly will eat dry dog

food, but eventually they will develop protein malnutrition from doing so. 



My starting research assumption was that one could not feed plants to cats

at all. But surprise, people are doing it, and the cats seem to tolerate

it (there is an on-web pic of a cat who gets fed semi-veggie food). My

guess is that since cats eat entire prey (including bones of small

animals), they have evolved tolerance and use for the vegetable contents

of herbivore gastrointestinal tracts. Also, cats are reported to

instinctively eat some plants in the wild, as well as domestic catnip

herb.



Furthermore the little-written herbal tradition for domestic animals seems

to go back as far as it does for people. We know that the ancient

Egyptians had both herbal medicines and sacred cats. I asked an amateur

Egyptologist friend, who said that she knew of no cultural reason that

Egyptians would not treat a sick sacred cat with appropriate herbs.



> I don't know of a veterinary herbalist around here

> (homoeopathic vets I could find) but if there is one, they'll

> have spent many years learning their trade and they'll have

> learnt it by digging out every bit of other people's previous

> experience they can find rather than risk making an animal

> suffer by gratuitous guesswork.



Fortunately, in the Internet Age, there are a couple of veterinary

herbalists with websites. But I agree that finding out the specifics of

what they know will not be easy.



> Fixing the after-effects of ibuprofen poisoning is not likely

> to be something there's a herbal remedy for you can look up 

> in a book.



We know milk thistle for liver, but I don't recall a Euro kidney herb. ???



I think I would at least try to quench free-radicals from damaged kidney

tissue by looking into a mega-vitamin-mineral profile appropriate for

cats. I did encounter some kind of cat vs. excess vitamin D issue which

had no reference. Excess vit D in humans causes tissue calcification.



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:45:18 -0000

--------



"Foxfire" <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote in message

news:Pine.LNX.3.96.1011125001304.8007B-100000@ASARian.org...

> On 24 Nov 2001 23:05:18 GMT bogus address <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:



> > So you can use your cat as an experimental subject to learn on?

>

> I assume taschlauch has financial issues like the rest of us. Like it or

> not, one learns the limits of one's abilities by actually doing animal

> care. I know I did. One makes the best judgements possible based on

> advice, but tempered by money realities.



If taschlauch cannot afford veterinary fees, then quite honestly he

shouldn't be owning an animal, that goes for anyone. In undertaking

responsible ownership of any animal, one must be able to provide adequate

healthcare to prevent suffering to that animal.





> > Fixing the after-effects of ibuprofen poisoning is not likely

> > to be something there's a herbal remedy for you can look up

> > in a book.

>

> We know milk thistle for liver, but I don't recall a Euro kidney herb. ???

>



It is not only the kidneys that are damaged through ingestion of ibuprofen.

As I stated in my first post, it causes severe ulceration to the stomach

lining, thus causing extreme pain to the animal and preventing him

eating/drinking properly. No amount of herbs will fix that.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 26 Nov 2001 00:51:48 GMT

--------



>> Cats have *very* different physiologies from people and you can

>> transfer *nothing* of what you know about the effects of herbs

>> on humans.

> IMHO, I think that position is too extreme. Now a -reptile- has a very

> different physiology, but even they have very similar cellular processes

> (as do bacteria). Cats are mammals with all the same organs that we have.

> What I think is most different is that cats primarily burn protein for

> energy instead of carbohydrates. Hungry cats reportedly will eat dry dog

> food, but eventually they will develop protein malnutrition from doing so. 



It's not protein malnutrition, it's much more specific.  Cats have at

least three nutritional requirements with no human parallel: taurine

(without which kittens go permanently blind and adult cats get heart

failure), arachidonic acid (I forget what the effect of a deficiency

is, but it's lethal) and arginine (where deficiency can only be induced

experimentally, but if you feed a kitten a diet artificially depleted

in arginine while still giving it the other amino acids, it will die

within hours).



That lot, to me, adds up to *really extreme* caution about transferring

expertise derived from humans, particularly anything that might affect

protein or fatty acid metabolism.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:46:52 GMT

--------

> It's not protein malnutrition, it's much more specific.  Cats have at

  least three nutritional requirements with no human parallel: taurine

  (without which kittens go permanently blind and adult cats get heart

  failure), arachidonic acid (I forget what the effect of a deficiency

  is, but it's lethal) and arginine (where deficiency can only be induced

  experimentally, but if you feed a kitten a diet artificially depleted

  in arginine while still giving it the other amino acids, it will die

  within hours).



> That lot, to me, adds up to *really extreme* caution about transferring

  expertise derived from humans, particularly anything that might affect

  protein or fatty acid metabolism.



> ========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

  Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760



From my reading (Adelle Davis), arachidonic acid, linoleic acid and linolenic

acid are essential fatty acids in human nutrition.  Arginine and histidine are

not among the eight main essential amino acids for humans, but sometimes the

human body may not be able to produce enough arginine or histidine without

getting these amino acids from food.  Or is this a highly unlikely deficiency?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:29:49 -0800

--------

So you can use your cat as an experimental subject to learn on?



SNIP>>>>>>>



No I said I would learn the right way , and I found stuff already. L@@K for your

self  fellow links for it , but I stand by being able to treat our pets with

herbs and most of this stuf backs it up .....



http://www.herbsnpets.com/pets/index.htm



http://www.herbsforanimals.com/



http://www.hiltonherbs.com/



http://www.animalherbs.co.nz/speak.htm



http://www.theherbsplace.com/givetopets.html



taschlauch





bogus address wrote:



> > But I do think herbs can be of a big help to cats , dogs or another

> > pet for that matter. [...]

> > The only way to give the right herbs , and in the right dose is to

> > learn about it. [...] There should have been many post on what herbs

> > are used in what amounts , for what sicknesses for cats.

>

> So you can use your cat as an experimental subject to learn on?

>

> There is no reason to suppose herbal therapy for a cat is going to be

> any easier than conventional.  Cats have *very* different physiologies

> from people and you can transfer *nothing* of what you know about the

> effects of herbs on humans.

>

> I don't know of a veterinary herbalist around here (homoeopathic vets I

> could find) but if there is one, they'll have spent many years learning

> their trade and they'll have learnt it by digging out every bit of other

> people's previous experience they can find rather than risk making an

> animal suffer by gratuitous guesswork.

>

> Fixing the after-effects of ibuprofen poisoning is not likely to be

> something there's a herbal remedy for you can look up in a book.

>

> ========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

> Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

> http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

> freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:54:33 -0000

--------



"taschlauch" <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote in message

news:3C009DEC.50A04156@lockhavenonline.xxx...

> So you can use your cat as an experimental subject to learn on?

>

> SNIP>>>>>>>

>

> No I said I would learn the right way , and I found stuff already. L@@K

for your

> self  fellow links for it , but I stand by being able to treat our pets

with

> herbs and most of this stuf backs it up .....



By learning the right way, you would need to take a degree in veterinary

medicine to first be able to diagnose illness in your cat, then you would

need to have studied homeopathy at some length to be able to appropriately

treat the cat, should some alternative substitute to conventional medicine

be available. How would you know what those substitutes could be without

prior pharmaceutical knowledge?



Do you leave your own health to chance in this way? Would you consult a

doctor if you were sick or would you take a chance that some herbal remedy

might cure your ailments?



I notice you failed to address some of my issues in my last post. I am only

trying to help you and prevent any more unnecessary suffering to your cat.

If you were in the UK, I would be seeking RSPCA action, due to your

seemingly unwillingness to provide adequate medical care for an obviously

suffering animal.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:08:03 -0500

--------

> "taschlauch" <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote in message

> news:3BFF7BE1.720F7DB2@lockhavenonline.xxx...

> > [...] I'm a guy just trying to help my cat.



<heh> Pardon getting your gender wrong, taschlauch. I noticed that when

"Tony" posted recently, I had assumed male but another responder assumed

female. I think the women on a.f.h outnumber the men (which I like   :)



I did web-only research on the general issues of OTC drugs in cats. The

biggest drug problem mentioned is cat acetominophen poisoning, followed by

aspirin & other salicylate (Pepto-Bismol) poisoning, followed by NSAIDs

(ibuprofen, etc.) poisoning. In other words, human OTC pain relievers

cannot be used for cats with inflamation or pain. Ibuprofen is described

as a cat kidney toxin. See the following semi-technical summary:

http://maxshouse.com/FAdrug.html "DRUGS TO AVOID IN CATS"



I also did web-only research on herbs used for cats. Mostly I wasn't very

impressed by what I found. Two vet sources said very little is known about

the proper doses. The two exceptions below are for Milk Thistle and Red

Raspberry, which contain dosage info by people who claim to have a lot of

experience with these particular herbs for animals. 



In common practice, the herb dose seems to be scaled by weight: find the

human dose in grams (or ounces), divide that by 150 (average human weight

in pounds), multiply that by weight of cat in pounds, equals cat dose in

grams (or ounces). Check that the resulting cat dose is in the ballpark of

1/15 of the human dose. Then further adjust the dose for known cat

sensitivity or insensitivity to the particular herb.



And of course herbs for pets vary in quality, and therefore effectiveness,

just like herbs for people. 



http://www.theherbsplace.com/givetopets.html "how to give herbs to pets"

http://www.pettribune.com/1998/040598/9.html "Milk Thistle (with doses for

cat & dog liver trouble)"

http://www.pettribune.com/1998/101198/28.html "Red Raspberry (in cat

pregancy)"

http://www.altvetmed.com/herb_med.html "Herbs in Veterinary Medicine"

http://www.gcci.org/ciah/articles/botanicalmedicine.html "Botanical

Medicine and Herbal Tonics for Pets"

http://www.holisticat.com/herb4cat.html "6 top herbs for cats (of 10 by

expert)"

http://www.upwithherbs.com/single.htm "20 herbs for cats"

http://www.tejascats.com/newchtsh.htm "Herbs for Cats (21 herbs &

nutrients)"

http://www.morrills.com/tashasherbs.htm "Tasha's Herbal formulas for cats

and for dogs"

http://www.theherbsplace.com/sspets.html "natural pet treatment

testimonials"



"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote in message

news:3bffac59_1@news.cybertours.com...

> There is also the Merck Vet Manual available as a very good 

> reference. It will allow you to supplement the information

> from your vet.



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0911910298/qid=1006652048/sr=2-1/103-8396133-5576636 

"The Merck Veterinary Manual (8th Ed), $32.00 + S&H"



Here are online medical dictionaries for the medical words frequently used

in professional references. Medical terminology may seem incomprehensible

at first, but it may help to think of it as learning the language of a

sport with which you are not familiar. 

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/dictionaries.html



BTW, most students of health sciences begin by studying anatomy, and the

physiology of how each organ works. Public library books are good enough

to start with.



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 25 Nov 2001 10:43:07 GMT

--------

Excerpt from taschlauch:



>But none was posted , only you will kill the poor cat. Well I for one will

>start learning , how to treat my best friend for the last five years. You can

>buy a cats main shots , for about $4 over the internet without a vets script (

>Needle Comes With It ). But yet where does one even start to learn , about

>herbs for ones sick cat.



Is it safe for somebody inexperienced with hypodermic needles to inject a cat or

inject oneself or another human?  I wouldn't be so confident, would probably go

to a vet for the needed shots.



I am not familiar with the effect of black cohosh on cats, but apparently it was

the ibuprofen that caused so much trouble.  I don't think there is much

knowledge on herbal medicine for cats and other nonhuman animals, wouldn't know

where to go for good advice.  I think there is a Wellpet emailing list mentioned

somewhere in Henriette's FAQ.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:10:36 -0000

--------



"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

news:9tqhvq$48vub$3@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

> Excerpt from taschlauch:

>

> >But none was posted , only you will kill the poor cat. Well I for one

will

> >start learning , how to treat my best friend for the last five years. You

can

> >buy a cats main shots , for about $4 over the internet without a vets

script (

> >Needle Comes With It ). But yet where does one even start to learn ,

about

> >herbs for ones sick cat.

>

> Is it safe for somebody inexperienced with hypodermic needles to inject a

cat or

> inject oneself or another human?  I wouldn't be so confident, would

probably go

> to a vet for the needed shots.



No, its not safe for an inexperienced lay person to inject an animal. Unless

you have extensive knowledge of anatomy of the animal, it would be quite

easy to damage various nerves, hit a vein/artery or inject into a muscle.

All of which would cause extreme suffering to the animal.



In the UK, it is illegal for vaccinations to be administered by anyone other

than a veterinary surgeon, who then signs and issues the appropriate

certification, which is required by any establishment your animal visits, as

proof of vaccinations having been given.



I believe in the US, vaccinations are available for purchase by anyone,

although I have no knowledge on the legalities of such. I find it hard to

understand how the ordinary pet owner can have sufficient knowledge on the

various diseases and types of vaccinations necessary to adequately protect

the animal. Different drug companies make different vaccinations, sometimes

combined and sometimes individual. How can a pet owner judge which

vaccination their particular animal needs?



This isn't an area I've looked into in any depth and would like feedback on

this matter. Maybe the drug companies recommend the correct vaccinations, I

don't know. Also what is the position on certification in the US to prove

your animal is adequately vaccinated?











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:28:28 -0500

--------

"Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote in message

news:P46M7.9451$i37.1302447@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

> "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

> news:9tqhvq$48vub$3@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

> > Excerpt from taschlauch:

> > > [...] You can buy a cats main shots , for about  $4 over 

> > > the internet without a vets script ( Needle Comes With It ).

> > Is it safe for somebody inexperienced with hypodermic needles

> > to inject a cat or inject oneself or another human?  I wouldn't

> > be so confident, would probably go to a vet for the needed shots.

>

> No, its not safe for an inexperienced lay person to inject an

> animal. Unless you have extensive knowledge of anatomy of the

> animal, it would be quite easy to damage various nerves, hit a

> vein/artery or inject into a muscle. All of which would cause

> extreme suffering to the animal.



Extensive knowledge is needed by a generalist. For a routine technical

task, only a technician's knowledge is needed, and a motivated lay person

can usually learn a specific technical task in a relatively short time. 

Granted that injecting animals requires some athletic talent and timing,

and that personal instruction would be better. However, taschlauch has

previously posted that he is connected with a farm, so he may be able to

get instruction from someone in his farming community. 



I take it that the vaccine shots themselves are specifically intended for

subcutaneous injection, and that the local reaction to them would be very

painful inside a muscle. Subcutaneous syringes typically come with short,

fine needles, so one would have to work at it to get a short needle into a

muscle. Also, can't one tell if a blood vessel has been hit by drawing

back slightly on the syringe and looking for blood in the syringe barrel?

As for hitting significant nerves, isn't that a people problem too, best

avoided by choosing a good injection site? I would be interested to know

if injection site instructions and warnings come with the do-it-yourself

cat vaccine kit. 

 

> In the UK, it is illegal for vaccinations to be administered by

> anyone other than a veterinary surgeon, who then signs and

> issues the appropriate certification, which is required by any

> establishment your animal visits, as proof of vaccinations

> having been given.

> 

> I believe in the US, vaccinations are available for purchase by

> anyone, although I have no knowledge on the legalities of such.

> I find it hard to understand how the ordinary pet owner can have

> sufficient knowledge on the various diseases and types of

> vaccinations necessary to adequately protect the animal.

> Different drug companies make different vaccinations, sometimes

> combined and sometimes individual. How can a pet owner judge

> which vaccination their particular animal needs?

> 

> This isn't an area I've looked into in any depth and would like

> feedback on this matter. Maybe the drug companies recommend the

> correct vaccinations, I don't know. Also what is the position on

> certification in the US to prove your animal is adequately

> vaccinated?



The U.S. economy was founded by a coalition of farmers and businessmen.

Even today the right of farmers to control their costs by doing routine

vet work remains a matter of high priority. 



The rights of U.S. pet owners are a sidebar to the rights of farmers. Some

states have prescription syringe laws (not aimed at farmers of course),

but others don't. Government ordinances sometimes require vaccinations,

and the pet owners are typically notified of this when seeking local

animal licenses. Perhaps these specific vaccinations must be done and

certified by a vet. Non-mandatory vaccinations seem to handled by

owner-to-owner recommendations, and pharma advertising in vet offices and

pet magazines. Also, in this rights environment, vets are more likely to

cooperate in educating do-it-yourselfers.



> "Foxfire" <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote in message

> news:Pine.LNX.3.96.1011125001304.8007B-100000@ASARian.org...

> > I assume taschlauch has financial issues like the rest of us.

> > Like it or not, one learns the limits of one's abilities by

> > actually doing animal care. I know I did. One makes the best

> > judgments possible based on advice, but tempered by money

> > realities.

> 

> If taschlauch cannot afford veterinary fees, then quite

> honestly he shouldn't be owning an animal, that goes for anyone.

> In undertaking responsible ownership of any animal, one must be

> able to provide adequate healthcare to prevent suffering to that

> animal.



That is a matter of philosophy. The U.S. farming tradition, as extended to

pet owners, is opposed to animal-owning being beholden to veterinary guild

ransom. The key is of course how one defines "adequate healthcare", about

which reasonable people may differ.



> > bogus address wrote:

> > > Fixing the after-effects of ibuprofen poisoning is not likely

> > > to be something there's a herbal remedy for you can look up

> > > in a book.

> Foxfire wrote:

> > We know milk thistle for liver, but I don't recall a 

> > Euro kidney herb. ???

> 

> It is not only the kidneys that are damaged through ingestion

> of ibuprofen. As I stated in my first post, it causes severe

> ulceration to the stomach lining, thus causing extreme pain to

> the animal and preventing him eating/drinking properly. No

> amount of herbs will fix that.



I take it that you are new to herbalism. Slippery elm and the many other

mucilaginous or gum herbs are a routine treatment for ulcerated stomachs

in people. I would think that in the case of cats, one would want to

choose a herb from this family which had a relatively low salicylate

content. (JC maintains a list of high salicylate plants at his website,

though it may be limited to foodstuffs.) Now, getting the mucilaginous

herb -into- the cat in a useful form may be difficult. (Henriette has

discussed this issue for people in the last couple of months.)  Perhaps an

oral syringe (no needle) would work?



Sean

---











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:01:51 -0000

--------



"Foxfire" <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org> wrote in message

news:Pine.LNX.3.96.1011125120453.14521A-100000@ASARian.org...



>

> I take it that the vaccine shots themselves are specifically intended for

> subcutaneous injection, and that the local reaction to them would be very

> painful inside a muscle. Subcutaneous syringes typically come with short,

> fine needles, so one would have to work at it to get a short needle into a

> muscle.



Yes, most vaccinations are injected subcutaneously, but do not use any

different size of needle (particularly in cats) from those used in

intra-muscular injections. Unless the animal is particularly obese, the

muscle lies almost directly beneath the skin and does not take much

penetration to reach it.



> Also, can't one tell if a blood vessel has been hit by drawing

> back slightly on the syringe and looking for blood in the syringe barrel?



Yes, that would the procedure used, but how many people would know that

unless demonstrated from a professional person?



> As for hitting significant nerves, isn't that a people problem too, best

> avoided by choosing a good injection site?



It would still require knowledge of the anatomy of the animal in question.



> I would be interested to know

> if injection site instructions and warnings come with the do-it-yourself

> cat vaccine kit.



Yes, I would be interested to know that too. Coming from the UK, I am not

familiar with this cavalier attitude the US seem to have in pet ownership.

I'd also like to point out that by taking your animal to a vet for its

vaccinations, also gives the vet opportunity to carry out a full health

check annually at no extra cost, giving the owner peace of mind that all is

well with their pet.



<snip>



> > It is not only the kidneys that are damaged through ingestion

> > of ibuprofen. As I stated in my first post, it causes severe

> > ulceration to the stomach lining, thus causing extreme pain to

> > the animal and preventing him eating/drinking properly. No

> > amount of herbs will fix that.

>

> I take it that you are new to herbalism. Slippery elm and the many other

> mucilaginous or gum herbs are a routine treatment for ulcerated stomachs

> in people. I would think that in the case of cats, one would want to

> choose a herb from this family which had a relatively low salicylate

> content. (JC maintains a list of high salicylate plants at his website,

> though it may be limited to foodstuffs.) Now, getting the mucilaginous

> herb -into- the cat in a useful form may be difficult. (Henriette has

> discussed this issue for people in the last couple of months.)  Perhaps an

> oral syringe (no needle) would work?



I am not totally new to herbalism but I do have a lot to learn. I have used

herbal preparations on my horses with some success for many years, but then

a horse is a herbivore anyway, and therefore much easier to treat. I do not

believe sufficient research has been done in treating cats/dogs in this way,

although I do know of some commercial brands readily available for certain

conditions that may help.



If I was to go down the route of treating my cats with herbal remedies, I

would seek the advice of a homeopathic vet, and follow his/her instructions.

In no way would I jeopardise the health of any of my animals by

experimenting with different herbal preparations to find out if something

would harm or help them.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:56:37 -0600

--------

"Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote

>

> Yes, I would be interested to know that too. Coming from the UK, I am not

> familiar with this cavalier attitude the US seem to have in pet ownership.

> I'd also like to point out that by taking your animal to a vet for its

> vaccinations, also gives the vet opportunity to carry out a full health

> check annually at no extra cost, giving the owner peace of mind that all

is

> well with their pet.



Most people here take their animals to a vet.  It is generally only in rural

areas that you will see folks ordering injections from a veterinary supply

house and giving them themselves.  In those cases, they have been trained on

how to give them - at least the people I know who do it have been.  I've

seen a lot of nurses do this as well.



Once you get into the farming communities you do see a lot of attitudes

toward animals that might be construed as "cavalier" but they generally give

their animals care as good as they give themselves.  They don't go to the

doctor for themselves either unless very ill.



Veterinary care here can be very expensive.  My dogs get their shots each

year for about $36.00 each which I consider to be cheap.  Their annual exam

is another $28.00 each which is also not that bad.  But if they need

anything major it can be very expensive.  One dog I know needed surgery that

ran $1000.00.  Many people simply cannot afford such an outlay of funds.



Things like medication for fleas and worm preventatives can be very

expensive too.  It's $70.00 for a six month supply for each dog and I have

three dogs.  That runs to $420.00 a year for that and then for shots and

exams another $192.00.  That is a total of $612.00 each year for normal care

for healthy animals not counting their food and toys.



I don't think pet ownership should be solely for those who earn enough to be

considered "upper middle class".  I think anyone who loves animals should be

able to have them.  There are low cost alternatives available through many

Humane Societies but folks have to be persistent about getting those

services.  I saw one woman given much bad information and paying far too

much for her cats shots and neuters.



Oh, and neutering an animal here?  One vet gave me an estimate of $320.00

for one dog.  Many charge $125.00 or so for the procedure.  Again, check

with a local humane society to see if there is an alternative available that

one might qualify for.  The one here in St. Louis will do it for $25.00 for

people in certain income categories.



Veterinary care here is not equal in all places and in rural communities it

is less expensive than in cities but is generally not as advanced either.



Loki - from a rural area herself









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 05:01:01 -0700

--------

"loki" <loki5@mindspring.com> wrote:



>Things like medication for fleas and worm preventatives can be very

>expensive too.  It's $70.00 for a six month supply for each dog and I have

>three dogs.  



  Here's an herbal worm preventer ... about once a month, feed

them finely ground raw green pumpkin seed kernels mixed with

their food for a couple of days.  Dosage for an adult human is

about 1/3 cup, and a tablespoon works for the average cat, so

adjust accordingly.

  There is a compound in the seeds that is specifically toxic to

ascarids and tapeworms.  Can't help much on the fleas - they are

not a problem here because it's too dry. 



>Oh, and neutering an animal here?  One vet gave me an estimate of $320.00

>for one dog.  Many charge $125.00 or so for the procedure.  



  YIKES!  I paid $65 for the last feral (and the vet took it out

of the cage for me).  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 04:56:40 -0700

--------

"Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote:



>> Also, can't one tell if a blood vessel has been hit by drawing

>> back slightly on the syringe and looking for blood in the syringe barrel?

>

>Yes, that would the procedure used, but how many people would know that

>unless demonstrated from a professional person?



  Cat vaccinating is easy enough that a well-written description

with a couple of pictures can show how to do it. 



>> As for hitting significant nerves, isn't that a people problem too, best

>> avoided by choosing a good injection site?

>

>It would still require knowledge of the anatomy of the animal in question.



  Again, the scruff of the neck for dogs and cats ... I don't

know where for horses and cows, but they have lots of large

muscle areas to use. 



>Coming from the UK, I am not

>familiar with this cavalier attitude the US seem to have in pet ownership.



  Not all of us are cavalier about it ... but those with many

pets or a feral population can save a lot of hassle and money by

taking care of the routine vaccinations themselves.  And for the

isolated farming areas, there are often no vets for miles and

miles, maybe 100+ miles.  







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:42:03 -0700

--------

"Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote:



>No, its not safe for an inexperienced lay person to inject an animal. Unless

>you have extensive knowledge of anatomy of the animal, it would be quite

>easy to damage various nerves, hit a vein/artery or inject into a muscle.

>All of which would cause extreme suffering to the animal.



  Most petvaccinations are administered into the "scruff", the

loose skin over the shoulders.  You just lift up the skin and

jab, then inject.  



>I believe in the US, vaccinations are available for purchase by anyone,

>although I have no knowledge on the legalities of such. I find it hard to

>understand how the ordinary pet owner can have sufficient knowledge on the

>various diseases and types of vaccinations necessary to adequately protect

>the animal. Different drug companies make different vaccinations, sometimes

>combined and sometimes individual. How can a pet owner judge which

>vaccination their particular animal needs?



  There are vaccination schedules available. 



>Also what is the position on certification in the US to prove

>your animal is adequately vaccinated?



  Rabies, for dogs, is the only certificate needed that I know

of. 





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:44:30 -0000

--------



"Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:9ne20us78remqh4ofd5fu3tnurrlf1qomb@4ax.com...

> "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote:

>

> >No, its not safe for an inexperienced lay person to inject an animal.

Unless

> >you have extensive knowledge of anatomy of the animal, it would be quite

> >easy to damage various nerves, hit a vein/artery or inject into a muscle.

> >All of which would cause extreme suffering to the animal.

>

>   Most petvaccinations are administered into the "scruff", the

> loose skin over the shoulders.  You just lift up the skin and

> jab, then inject.



I am well aware of the procedure, as I pointed out in another post, I am a

qualified veterinary nurse. I was trying to point out that the normal pet

owner would not have sufficient knowledge to carry out the procedure safely,

without professional advice.



>

> >I believe in the US, vaccinations are available for purchase by anyone,

> >although I have no knowledge on the legalities of such. I find it hard to

> >understand how the ordinary pet owner can have sufficient knowledge on

the

> >various diseases and types of vaccinations necessary to adequately

protect

> >the animal. Different drug companies make different vaccinations,

sometimes

> >combined and sometimes individual. How can a pet owner judge which

> >vaccination their particular animal needs?

>

>   There are vaccination schedules available.

>

> >Also what is the position on certification in the US to prove

> >your animal is adequately vaccinated?

>

>   Rabies, for dogs, is the only certificate needed that I know

> of.



Do boarding kennels not need to see proof of all vaccinations prior to

boarding an animal with them?













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:42:12 -0600

--------

"Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote

>

> "Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote

> >

> >   Rabies, for dogs, is the only certificate needed that I know

> > of.

>

> Do boarding kennels not need to see proof of all vaccinations prior to

> boarding an animal with them?



If one is going to board a dog, yes they require more than just rabies.

Most folks never board their dogs though and thus, a rabies vaccination is

all that is required by law in most places.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:53:19 -0000

--------



"loki" <loki5@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:9trokv$sg2$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...

> "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote

> >

> > "Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote

> > >

> > >   Rabies, for dogs, is the only certificate needed that I know

> > > of.

> >

> > Do boarding kennels not need to see proof of all vaccinations prior to

> > boarding an animal with them?

>

> If one is going to board a dog, yes they require more than just rabies.

> Most folks never board their dogs though and thus, a rabies vaccination is

> all that is required by law in most places.





Thanks for the information. I'm beginning to see that things are

considerably different over in the US than here in the UK. For one, we don't

routinely vaccinate against rabies unless we plan to take our animal abroad.

Also, boarding kennels here are big business and the majority of cat/dog

owners will probably use one at some point in their lives.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:38:02 -0600

--------

"Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote

>

> Thanks for the information. I'm beginning to see that things are

> considerably different over in the US than here in the UK. For one, we

don't

> routinely vaccinate against rabies unless we plan to take our animal

abroad.

> Also, boarding kennels here are big business and the majority of cat/dog

> owners will probably use one at some point in their lives.



Yes, it is very different.  I've spent enough time with friends in the UK to

have seen the differences first hand.



Rabies is still a big concern here.  In my county there were two rabid bats

found this year and some are found just about every year.  Rabid raccoons

are a problem as well though a smaller one.  I live in a large city (St.

Louis) and there is a raccoon family that routinely raids my garden each

summer looking for tomatoes.  It is very rare indeed though to find a rabid

domestic animal.  The laws are very strict and all pets must be vaccinated

for rabies each year.



While boarding kennels are big business here as well, they are more often

used in cities than in rural areas.  They tend to be expensive ($20.00 per

day per animal here - for my pack that is $60.00 per day) and we have pet

sitting services available in the same price range which allow the animal to

stay home.  I use pet sitters myself when I travel on business.  That way

the dogs are home, the house is protected and someone is in to check on

things.  In my case, the pet sitter spends the nights here but in others

they make several visits per day to feed/walk, etc.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 04:48:54 -0700

--------

"Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote:



>> If one is going to board a dog, yes they require more than just rabies.

>> Most folks never board their dogs though and thus, a rabies vaccination is

>> all that is required by law in most places.



>Thanks for the information. I'm beginning to see that things are

>considerably different over in the US than here in the UK. For one, we don't

>routinely vaccinate against rabies unless we plan to take our animal abroad.



  Well, we are what you would call "abroad" ... and have regular

outbreaks of rabies in the local wildlife.  



>Also, boarding kennels here are big business and the majority of cat/dog

>owners will probably use one at some point in their lives.



  The least time I needed to abandon the pets, I hired someone to

come in and feed them.  Pet nannies are fairly common here, and

good for most animals because they stay in familiar surroundings.











Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 04:46:37 -0700

--------

"Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com> wrote:



>

>"Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>   Most petvaccinations are administered into the "scruff", the

>> loose skin over the shoulders.  You just lift up the skin and

>> jab, then inject.

>

>I am well aware of the procedure, as I pointed out in another post, I am a

>qualified veterinary nurse. I was trying to point out that the normal pet

>owner would not have sufficient knowledge to carry out the procedure safely,

>without professional advice.



  And I am NOT a veterinary anything, but it's an easy procedure.

The hard part is holding the cat and avoiding the fangs.





>> >Also what is the position on certification in the US to prove

>> >your animal is adequately vaccinated?

>>

>>   Rabies, for dogs, is the only certificate needed that I know

>> of.

>

>Do boarding kennels not need to see proof of all vaccinations prior to

>boarding an animal with them?



  Yes, but that only applies if you are boarding the animal, and

only if the kennel insists.  Rabies shots for dogs are almost

universal and governmentally required.









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:39:00 -0800

--------

OK , I messed up with the Ibuprofen and I said so , and I was simply

pointing

out that one could buy the shots for pets. Meaning that the stuff to

treat pets

are out there , and if the stuff is out their the info must be out there

as

well. I would not try to give my pet the shots ( the vet does that , and

cheap

as well ), and I pointed out in my first post. That my cat was in great

shape ,

the only problem is her having pain at times when in heat. The vet said

it is

norm some times , with pets that was not fixed as they get older. He

also said

she should be fixed , and that I should make up my mind about breeding

her or

not. He also said I should do one or the other with in a year or so , as

it

would not be good to breed her after she is 6 years old.



But if I can treat myself for some things with herbs , and I do say (

SOME

THINGS ) why not my cat. We do not run to the doctor every time we feel

sick ,

nor do we run to the vet at every sickness of our pets have. I have

found alot

about treating pets with herbs already , I found out garlic should not

be given

to pets for long times in any form. One thing I have seen just like with

herbs

for people , they always tell of what herbs are bad for our pets and

should not

be used. Vets have there place , but so can herbs for your pets. And as

for not

knowing what wrong with our pets , I would take my pet faster to a vet

if I

didn't know what was wrong her. They will always tell you what not to

give your

pet , but may or may not tell you what herbs to treat them with even if

they

know.



I think how to treat ( some things ) for your pet with herbs , should be

out

there as much as for people. Most people miss treat their pets , not

even

getting them life and death treatment. It is very common for people to

have

their pet put to sleep , because they don't want to or don't have the

money for

treatment. Or in some cases shoot the pet , because they don't even

bother

getting a vets help at all. It would only helps the pets , by getting

people to

treat their pets for smaller problems. It should also get them to get

help from

a vet , when bigger problems do come up. And if people know what to look

for ,

when problems do come up that needs a vet it would get the pet help

sooner. So

even from a vets point of view , this would be a good thing not a bad

thing.



taschlauch



Lost Soul wrote:



> "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

> news:9tqhvq$48vub$3@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

> > Excerpt from taschlauch:

> >

> > >But none was posted , only you will kill the poor cat. Well I for one

> will

> > >start learning , how to treat my best friend for the last five years. You

> can

> > >buy a cats main shots , for about $4 over the internet without a vets

> script (

> > >Needle Comes With It ). But yet where does one even start to learn ,

> about

> > >herbs for ones sick cat.

> >

> > Is it safe for somebody inexperienced with hypodermic needles to inject a

> cat or

> > inject oneself or another human?  I wouldn't be so confident, would

> probably go

> > to a vet for the needed shots.

>

> No, its not safe for an inexperienced lay person to inject an animal. Unless

> you have extensive knowledge of anatomy of the animal, it would be quite

> easy to damage various nerves, hit a vein/artery or inject into a muscle.

> All of which would cause extreme suffering to the animal.

>

> In the UK, it is illegal for vaccinations to be administered by anyone other

> than a veterinary surgeon, who then signs and issues the appropriate

> certification, which is required by any establishment your animal visits, as

> proof of vaccinations having been given.

>

> I believe in the US, vaccinations are available for purchase by anyone,

> although I have no knowledge on the legalities of such. I find it hard to

> understand how the ordinary pet owner can have sufficient knowledge on the

> various diseases and types of vaccinations necessary to adequately protect

> the animal. Different drug companies make different vaccinations, sometimes

> combined and sometimes individual. How can a pet owner judge which

> vaccination their particular animal needs?

>

> This isn't an area I've looked into in any depth and would like feedback on

> this matter. Maybe the drug companies recommend the correct vaccinations, I

> don't know. Also what is the position on certification in the US to prove

> your animal is adequately vaccinated?





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 26 Nov 2001 00:57:07 GMT

--------



> its not safe for an inexperienced lay person to inject an animal. Unless

> you have extensive knowledge of anatomy of the animal, it would be quite

> easy to damage various nerves, hit a vein/artery or inject into a muscle.

> All of which would cause extreme suffering to the animal.



One of the lesser-known legal trivia about medicine in the UK is that

it's legal for vets to treat people but not for doctors to treat animals.



Which makes sense.  The vet has a perspective on a range of anatomies and

physiologies that includes the human ones, but not the other way round.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: "Lost Soul" <lost-soul@ntlworld.nospam.com>

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:14:54 -0000

--------



"bogus address" <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:8378@purr.demon.co.uk...

>

> > its not safe for an inexperienced lay person to inject an animal. Unless

> > you have extensive knowledge of anatomy of the animal, it would be quite

> > easy to damage various nerves, hit a vein/artery or inject into a

muscle.

> > All of which would cause extreme suffering to the animal.

>

> One of the lesser-known legal trivia about medicine in the UK is that

> it's legal for vets to treat people but not for doctors to treat animals.

>

> Which makes sense.  The vet has a perspective on a range of anatomies and

> physiologies that includes the human ones, but not the other way round.



Yes, that is certainly true, and I often receive treatment from my own vet

for minor ailments and injuries, rather than spend long hours in casualty or

trouble my GP for a prescription.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Giving Black Cohosh for cat in heat ???

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:34:46 -0700

--------

taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote:



>I'm not a troll , I'm a guy just trying to help my cat. My cat was taking from

>her mom to young , the owner selling her needed the money to keep their house.

>So she sold all the breeded cats she had for $50 each ( she was a pro breeder

>), norm would cost $1000.00 each. She said at that cheap of price , she would

>not give any papers with her. 



  She DESPERATELY needs to be neutered! Cats get all kinds of

problems if they keep going into heat w/o getting pregnant.  And

there are plenty of kittens in the world ... you don't need to

breed her w/o papers to see "the miracle of life", and

unregistered Persians are just another alley cat. 



>2nd I did

>not know the Ibuprofen would hurt her ( my mom said to try it ).



  Unless your mom is a vet, don't take her advice about cats and

medicine.  



>But I do think herbs can be of a big help to cats , dogs or another pet for

>that matter. 

  Very little research has been done on it, and cats have a WIERD

metabolism ... you are playing Russian Roulete with kitty's life

if you give anything untested. 



>cats the black cohosh. It is what women would take for that problem , so with

>out thinking I just cut the amount for her size.



  Cats are NOT HUMAN FEMALES! 



>The only way to give the right herbs , and in the right dose is to learn about

>it. Just as with herbs and people , but it looks like we all got alot of

>learning to do. 



  FORGET TESTING HERBS ON KITTY UNLESS YOU WANT TO KILL YOUR CAT!



>There should have been many post on what herbs

>, are used in what amounts , for what sicknesses for cats.



  I do not give herbal remedies to my cat ... except catnip.  



>But none was posted , only you will kill the poor cat. 



  Because we DO NOT KNOW ANY RELIABLE HERBAL REMEDIES FOR CATS!



>Well I for one will

>start learning , how to treat my best friend for the last five years. You can

>buy a cats main shots , for about $4 over the internet without a vets script (

>Needle Comes With It ). But yet where does one even start to learn , about

>herbs for ones sick cat.



  For starters, get a lot of cats, because you are going to kill

a few before you figure what herbs in what dosage for what

condition.  Feed the herbs to the healthy cats and monitor them

for kidney and liver problems (expensive lab tests needed). 







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Ginger for arthritis

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:40:23 -0000

--------

Ginger could offer arthritis sufferers relief from pain without the side

effects of conventional drugs, according to a study. A rheumatologist at the

University of Miami School of Medicine, Professor Ray Altman, tested 250

volunteers with osteoarthritis, the most common form of the condition. Two

thirds of those given the ginger pill reported relief from pain. Professor

Altman revealed his findings yesterday at the British Medical Association in

London. He said: 'The ginger extract reduced significant pain. Their pain

after walking was almost twice as good an improvement as placebo. The effect

seen is similar to that seen with trials using conventional drugs. Clearly

this is a short-term study, and a longer-term study is needed.' The product

used in the trials, Zinaxin, is already used for arthritis in other parts of

the world. In the UK, however, the condition is treated with

anti-inflammatory drugs.



http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/news/index.asp?y=2001&m=11&d=20#id67297

















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ginger for arthritis

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:24:07 -0700

--------

"bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:



>Ginger could offer arthritis sufferers relief from pain without the side

>effects of conventional drugs



  What about the side effects of the ginger?  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ginger for arthritis

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:43:48 +0200

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:



> "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> 

> >Ginger could offer arthritis sufferers relief from pain without the side

> >effects of conventional drugs

> 

>   What about the side effects of the ginger?



Hmm. What _are_ the side effects of ginger, other than a severe dislike for it

if you take too much for too long?



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ginger for arthritis

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:35:09 -0700

--------

Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote:



>Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

>> "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> 

>> >Ginger could offer arthritis sufferers relief from pain without the side

>> >effects of conventional drugs

>> 

>>   What about the side effects of the ginger?

>

>Hmm. What _are_ the side effects of ginger, other than a severe dislike for it

>if you take too much for too long?



  I don't know.  But before you replace A with B, you need to

find out if "B" has any adverse effects. 





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ginger for arthritis

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 23 Nov 2001 09:46:12 GMT

--------



>> Hmm. What _are_ the side effects of ginger, other than a severe dislike

>> for it if you take too much for too long?

> We don't know the side effects of ginger yet?  Oh wow and my mother

> fed me all those dangerous cookies so carelessly. It's a wonder I'm

> still alive. I know!  Maybe that's why I have to wear glasses.  It was

> the ginger!  has anyone tested for that?

> I have to forgive her, though.  She meant well.  She just figured that

> after a few thousand years, it is likely someone would have noticed the

> effects.



The amounts of foods like ginger used for therapeutic purposes are so

much higher than anything most people eat that there *isn't* thousands

of years of experience with it.



One protocol developed in Israel uses ginger and turmeric together as

anti-clotting agents.  They're about as effective as streptokinase and

a lot cheaper, even though people have to take a cupful of turmeric a

day.  But they have the *same* risks for side-effects like haemorrhagic

stroke.



Ginger is also not something people in the West have thousands of years

of experience with.  The implication being that not everybody in the gene

pool with a serious allergic reaction to it has been killed off or bred

out yet.  It isn't one of the commoner food allergens but it does affect

some folks.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Ginger for arthritis

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:06:53 -0000

--------



Maybe get in touch with the Prof and ask him.......





"Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:a2vpvtgs0c9fv69ij7kcps7of53ac67ksk@4ax.com...

> "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>

> >Ginger could offer arthritis sufferers relief from pain without the side

> >effects of conventional drugs

>

>   What about the side effects of the ginger?

>

>

>

>

> Tsu Dho Nimh

>

> A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy

enough people to make it worth the effort.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Help with drying up mother's baby milk...

From: "Skye" <brighid@dreamscape.com>

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:04:15 -0500

--------

Hello,

I have a question regarding baby's milk.  My sister just had a baby.  She is

not going to breast feed and asked her doctor for something to dry up her

milk.  I guess usually something is given in a shot or pill form.  The

doctor said no because of a new medical policy to let the milk to dry up on

its own.  The doctor told my sister to just bind herself chest up and wait.

My sister is doing so but it is extremely painful and I worry about her

getting an infection called mastitis.  I was wondering if there is an herb

she could take maybe in a tea form that would help the milk to dry faster

and relieve her stress.



Anyway thanks in advance

Skye









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Help with drying up mother's baby milk...

From: "iam me" <budhaboy@email.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:39:00 GMT

--------



"Skye" wrote:



I was wondering if there is an herb

> she could take maybe in a tea form that would help the milk to dry faster

> and relieve her stress.

>

> Anyway thanks in advance

> Skye



I have read that both parsley and sage work for decreasing breast milk.  You

can either eat it raw or make a tea.  Not sure of the dosage,  just try

including them both into your diet in creative ways.  Juiced parsley is

yummy with carrots and apples.  Good luck!  -Jeska









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Help with drying up mother's baby milk...

From: "Skye" <brighid@dreamscape.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:24:10 -0500

--------



iam me <budhaboy@email.com> wrote in message

news:oNbM7.102194$8a.75741936@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com...

>

> "Skye" wrote:

>

> I was wondering if there is an herb

> > she could take maybe in a tea form that would help the milk to dry

faster

> > and relieve her stress.

> >

> > Anyway thanks in advance

> > Skye

>

> I have read that both parsley and sage work for decreasing breast milk.

You

> can either eat it raw or make a tea.  Not sure of the dosage,  just try

> including them both into your diet in creative ways.  Juiced parsley is

> yummy with carrots and apples.  Good luck!  -Jeska

>



I'll look into it - My sister would rather breast feed but for medical

reasons cannot and wanting to help relieve her pain I thought I'd ask.

I thank you and she thanks you!

Peace

Skye









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Help with drying up mother's baby milk...

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:17:33 -0600

--------

"Skye" <brighid@dreamscape.com> wrote in message

news:u051qepjjqqs8a@corp.supernews.com...

>

> iam me <budhaboy@email.com> wrote in message

> news:oNbM7.102194$8a.75741936@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com...

> >

> > "Skye" wrote:

> >

> > I was wondering if there is an herb

> > > she could take maybe in a tea form that would help the milk to dry

> faster

> > > and relieve her stress.

> > >

> > > Anyway thanks in advance

> > > Skye

> >

> > I have read that both parsley and sage work for decreasing breast milk.

> You

> > can either eat it raw or make a tea.  Not sure of the dosage,  just try

> > including them both into your diet in creative ways.  Juiced parsley is

> > yummy with carrots and apples.  Good luck!  -Jeska

> >

>

> I'll look into it - My sister would rather breast feed but for medical

> reasons cannot and wanting to help relieve her pain I thought I'd ask.

> I thank you and she thanks you!



If she really would prefer to breastfeed (and I think it is far healthier

for both mother and baby most of the time), have her contact the LaLeche

League.  They have experienced mom's who can help her through most anything.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Help with drying up mother's baby milk...

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:58:50 +0200

--------

"Skye" <brighid@dreamscape.com> wrote:



> I'll look into it - My sister would rather breast feed but for medical

> reasons cannot and wanting to help relieve her pain I thought I'd ask.

> I thank you and she thanks you!



If you do decide to go the sage route: any scented Salvia spp. work like Salvia

officinalis.

To dry up things you should do sage tea cold. A hot sage tea will just increase

things, be it sweat or milk.



Good luck, and hope she gets better soon.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Mixing herbes

From: "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:57:30 +0100

--------

Much miss-information has been put forth on mixing herbs.  In particular in

response to a question on mixing nettle with licorice.

Nettles on their own are considered toxic plants.  Among other things they

contain cardiac glucosides similar to digitalis.  Licorice

contains glycyrrhizaglabra which increases the effect of the glucoside.

Long term use of a combination of these herbs can lead

to heart failure.

   If interested the common occurance of cardiac glucosides in plants

go to yahoo and  search under glucosides cardiac.



James



Saxena, P. R.; Pant, M. C.; Kishor, K.; Bhargava, K. P. (1965)Identification

of pharmacologically active substances in the Indianstinging nettle, Urtica

parviflora (Roxb.). Can J Physiol Pharmacol43:869-876

Schmidt, R. J. (1985) The super-nettles. A dermatologist's guide to antsin

the plants. Intnatl J Dermatol 24(4):204-210





http://www.reseauproteus.net/1001solutions/g/glycyrrhizaglabra.htm



http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0175.htm











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:07:22 +0200

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



> Much miss-information has been put forth on mixing herbs.  In particular in

> response to a question on mixing nettle with licorice.

> Nettles on their own are considered toxic plants.  Among other things they

> contain cardiac glucosides similar to digitalis.  



Hohhoijaa, as we say in Finland. Nettles are NOT toxic. They do NOT contain

heart glycosides.



> Licorice

> contains glycyrrhizaglabra which increases the effect of the glucoside.



No, Licorice _is_ Glycyrrhiza glabra. That doesn't increase the effect of

_anything_. Go read up on botany.



You're quite a nutcase, you know that?



> Long term use of a combination of these herbs can lead

> to heart failure.



That's REALLY preposterous.



>    If interested the common occurance of cardiac glucosides in plants

> go to yahoo and  search under glucosides cardiac.



Why would I do that when NETTLES DO NOT CONTAIN CARDIAC GLYCOSIDES?



And note, the term is glycosides. A glucoside is just a subset of the glycosides

- it's a glycoside where the sugar is a glucose. 



I do doubt that that little fact makes any sense to you, though. Go read up on

pharmacognosy.



> Saxena, P. R.; Pant, M. C.; Kishor, K.; Bhargava, K. P. (1965)Identification

> of pharmacologically active substances in the Indianstinging nettle, Urtica

> parviflora (Roxb.). Can J Physiol Pharmacol43:869-876

> Schmidt, R. J. (1985) The super-nettles. A dermatologist's guide to antsin

> the plants. Intnatl J Dermatol 24(4):204-210



Ants in the plants? Most Urtica spp. contain something quite like formic acid,

in the hollow hairs that make you itch when you touch them. That acid is

actually very helpful if you use it externally on your joint problems.

Internally nettles help with lots of things, partly because they're just loaded

with minerals and trace elements (and a few vitamins), partly because they're

nettles.



That doesn't make them toxic.



Here's a reference for you, on the species you gave a reference on, Urtica

parviflora:

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/cgi-bin/pfaf/arr_html?Urtica+parviflora&CAN=LATIND

Other nettles can be found in the PFAF database, too, check this:

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/database/latinU.html



And stop posting your disinformation.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:37:17 +0100

--------

Madame you are correct in that I should have said glycyrrhizine.  when

speaking of licorice.  However you are very wrong about nettles not

containing cardiac glucosides.



From your comments I would assume that you have had no formal training from

an accredited institution in botany, organic chemistry,

bio chemistry or any related science.



   Your ignorance is exceeded only by your rudeness.



James









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:26:31 -0700

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



>Madame you are correct in that I should have said glycyrrhizine.  when

>speaking of licorice.  However you are very wrong about nettles not

>containing cardiac glucosides.



  Nettles used to be a commonly eaten vegetable.  Hard to attain

that status when you are toxic. 



>From your comments I would assume that you have had no formal training from

>an accredited institution in botany, organic chemistry,

>bio chemistry or any related science.



  And your CV is? 



>

>   Your ignorance is exceeded only by your rudeness.

>

>James

>







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:00:19 +0100

--------



Tsu Dho Nimh a crit dans le message ...

>"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

>

>>Madame you are correct in that I should have said glycyrrhizine.  when

>>speaking of licorice.  However you are very wrong about nettles not

>>containing cardiac glucosides.

>

>  Nettles used to be a commonly eaten vegetable.  Hard to attain

>that status when you are toxic.

>

>>From your comments I would assume that you have had no formal training

from

>>an accredited institution in botany, organic chemistry,

>>bio chemistry or any related science.

>

>  And your CV is?

>

>>

>>   Your ignorance is exceeded only by your rudeness.

>>

>>James

>>

>

>

>

>Tsu Dho Nimh

>

The only places I have heard of nettles being used as food is in books and

websites of those who promote herbal medicine.  It's

toxicity is like that of Johnson grass  ( Sorghum halepense (L.) Pers.)

in that it can very from a little to a lot.



There is a brief C.V. at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/james.lumpkins/qual.htm



This was directed at the subject at hand.  Left out were courses in

biology, geobiology, Palo Botany , microbiology, anatomy and  physiology.



James











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:52:00 +0200

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



> The only places I have heard of nettles being used as food is in books and

> websites of those who promote herbal medicine.  It's

> toxicity is like that of Johnson grass  ( Sorghum halepense (L.) Pers.)

> in that it can very from a little to a lot.





It's like this: if _you_ have no experience using it, ask somebody who has. Olde

ladies often know _far_ more about the real use of plants than theoretical old

men.



Up here nettles are _the_ most used herb in lay herb folk circles, along with

dandelion.



Nettles are certainly not toxic, no matter how many skewed articles you show us.

If they did contain digitalis toxins lots of people would have died of it, and

we'd have had lots of negative headlines. Have we had that? No.



Anyway, I tire of you. 



<plonk>



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:42:28 -0700

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:





>The only places I have heard of nettles being used as food is in books and

>websites of those who promote herbal medicine.  It's

>toxicity is like that of Johnson grass  ( Sorghum halepense (L.) Pers.)

>in that it can very from a little to a lot.



They have to be gathered as VERY young shoots, and soup seems to

be the preferred way of using them, but recipes are out there.

Wash thoroughly and use as any green leafy veggy.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/recipes/recipe2.shtml  



http://www.santesson.com/recept/nesssopp.htm



http://www.beyond.fr/food/tourtedehaute.html  (spring greens pie)









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 05:05:02 -0700

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



>

>Tsu Dho Nimh a crit dans le message

>>They have to be gathered as VERY young shoots, and soup seems to

>>be the preferred way of using them, but recipes are out there.

>>Wash thoroughly and use as any green leafy veggy.



>You are correct limited use of the VERY young shoots should not

>cause a problem. The adult plant itself is generally not drop dead

>toxic. 



  The older shoots of Urtica dioica might be used in tonics and

remedies, but they are too danged tough for cooking unless you

are desperate for greens, and full of gritty cysts.



  I did a google search, and aside from references to the stings

being cause of dermatitis, found absolutamente NADA on

cardiotoxic effects of the common stinging nettle.  Do you have

the URL of anything showing that they do have this toxicity?



>As far as those who claim to be drinking it by the gallon. QUELLE

>MERDE! 



  It does taste like merde as a tonic, but I don't like boiled

greens of any species. 



>Where was the wisdom of the olde ladies when 20 million people

>died of flu in 1918? What did they do to end the leper colonies? 



  We are talking about cooking and herbal medicine, not

bacteriology.  And the bacteriologists didn't do too well against

the Spanish flu either.  



>Herbs are very use full things and drugs FROM plants are very important, but

>on their own herbs will not effectively treat any serious

>disease.



  Certainement c'est merde ... I have a 1927 Materia Medica that

is chock full of herbal remedies that were in use in the

pre-antibiotic era for treating all kinds of serious diseases.  



>I bet that the first thing people here who have been replying with their

>total nonsense do when they have a serious infection is to run to the

>doctor and demand antibiotics. 



  We were discussing the culinary and herbal use of Urtica

dioica, which is known to not be an antibiotic herb.  Most

persons who use herbs for some problems use the products of the

pharmaceutical industry for others. 







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:38:36 +0200

--------

Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote:



>   The older shoots of Urtica dioica might be used in tonics and

> remedies, but they are too danged tough for cooking unless you

> are desperate for greens, and full of gritty cysts.



You don't pick "very small shoots". You pick them from about 10 cm to about 30

cm tall, after which you can still pick the tops, until it starts to flower. If

you want fresh nettles during all of summer, mow them down and wait for 2-3

weeks. Voila, more young nettles.



Nettle tea can be made from these, but they're more often boiled and used as

greens; add them to your potato mush, to your rice, to your other greens, or

just eat them as is, kind of like spinach. Do remember to cut them up or the

stems can be too chewy, even if they're not as tough as full-grown nettles.

(Full-grown nettles have _very_ tough stems. You can't even think of dreaming of

chewing them. Think rope and you pretty much got it. The stems have been used to

make cloth, very silk-like.)



Other parts of nettles I use, have used for years, will continue to use for

years, and give to all clients who need them:

- nettle sees are great. They're on a par with ginseng. AND they're "Nature's

  Viagra", ie. they'll restore function to some of the impotents out there.

- nettle root is a great herb for benign prostatic hyperplasy (BPHP). It also

  soothes the urinary tract in general, but it's so much work to pick that I use

  easier herbs for UT troubles.

- nettle leaf is good if you have allergies. It's also packed with minerals and

  vitamins, and is thus a good general strengthener. This can be used in tea or

  as a leaf vegetable, your choice.



Some people don't like the taste of nettle stew; they generally like the taste

of anise better. They should eat spring stews from the very young leaf of

Aegopodium podagraria, which is more to their tastes.



I repeat, nettles are not toxic, nor have they ever been toxic.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: herblady@newsguy.com (Rasta Poodle)

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:00:37 GMT

--------

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:38:36 +0200, Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

wrote:



>You don't pick "very small shoots". You pick them from about 10 cm to about 30

>cm tall, after which you can still pick the tops, until it starts to flower. If

>you want fresh nettles during all of summer, mow them down and wait for 2-3

>weeks. Voila, more young nettles.

>

>Nettle tea can be made from these, but they're more often boiled and used as

>greens; add them to your potato mush, to your rice, to your other greens, or

>just eat them as is, kind of like spinach. Do remember to cut them up or the

>stems can be too chewy, even if they're not as tough as full-grown nettles.

>(Full-grown nettles have _very_ tough stems. You can't even think of dreaming of

>chewing them. Think rope and you pretty much got it. The stems have been used to

>make cloth, very silk-like.)



I remember years ago, when I first started herbal research/reading, that in

England, nettles are regarded as a 'spring tonic' stewpot herb. After a long

winter, the folks went out and gathered the young shoots, and stewed them much

as you say, Henriette. They regarded the stew are a great rejuvinator. I guess

it's pretty much the same all over Europe.

>

>Other parts of nettles I use, have used for years, will continue to use for

>years, and give to all clients who need them:

>- nettle sees are great. They're on a par with ginseng. AND they're "Nature's

>  Viagra", ie. they'll restore function to some of the impotents out there.

>- nettle root is a great herb for benign prostatic hyperplasy (BPHP). It also

>  soothes the urinary tract in general, but it's so much work to pick that I use

>  easier herbs for UT troubles.

>- nettle leaf is good if you have allergies. It's also packed with minerals and

>  vitamins, and is thus a good general strengthener. This can be used in tea or

>  as a leaf vegetable, your choice.



Well, thankfully, I don't have any of those problems :-) but once again, I am a

bit saddened that there are so many time-honored plants that I can't grow in

Miami, e.g. dandelions, plantain, St. John's Wort, nettles.



>I repeat, nettles are not toxic, nor have they ever been toxic.

>

>Henriette



They're only toxic in the minds of toxic trolls who focus in on, and

misinterpret obscure papers. But we've seen many toxic trolls here before, eh?

They soon leave.



         Anya  {{{*_*}}}

Visit my "Aromatherapy Debunked and Defended" site

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

Bob Marley and the Wailers album "Exodus"

named "Album of the Century" by Time magazine







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:32:53 -0700

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:





>Nettles are toxic they appear on every list of toxic plants I have seen.



  Because of the contact dermatitis!  



>The leaves of the young plant may be eaten if the formic acid is boiled out

>and then the leaves rinsed.   Why anyone would want to do that is beyond me.



  For the taste and the vitamins?  Nettles sprout far earlier

than garden greens in cold climates, so are/were the first veggie

available in pre-supermarket days.  











Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:04:01 GMT

--------

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:37:50 +0100, "maison.mousse"

<maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



>>I repeat, nettles are not toxic, nor have they ever been toxic.

>>

>>Henriette

>>

>Nettles are toxic they appear on every list of toxic plants I have seen.

>The leaves of the young plant may be eaten if the formic acid is boiled out

>and then the leaves rinsed.   Why anyone would want to do that is beyond me.

>Only a complete fool would brew up tea

>directly from nettle leaves as the formic acid is water soluable.  Formic

>acid is toxic to the liver.  The reason people die from drinking methenol is

>because it oxidizes to formaldahyde and formic acid

>both liver toxins.

>

>James



You are out of your mind!!  Plus I took a look at your qualifications

and your resume.  None of your qualifications make you even remotely

qualified to judge whether Nettles are toxic, and your resume says it

all.: "He served many years as a scientist for such firms as Phillips

Petroleum Company"..."Mr. Lumpkins worked in France for Biopol Labs of

Washington State, U.S.A. collecting plants and extracting components

from those plants for use in pharmaceutical laboratories. "



Extracted, and  isolated components from plants are NOT the plants

themselves.  We have heard this weary argument over and over from

pharmaceutical companies who are out to denegrate herbs.



Good old days in medicine?  We are living in one of the most toxic

medical eras in history right now.  Doctors Are The Third Leading

Cause of Death in the US, causing 250,000 deaths every Year, and the

pharmaceutical companies are right there beside them.  106,000 people

die every year from non-error, negative effects of drugs, and another

7,000 die each year from medication errors in hospitals. These

statistics were printed in the Journal American Medical Association

Vol 284 July 26, 2000.



See: http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm

for more on this.



The original link in JAMA online was:

http://jama.ama.assn.org/issues/v284n4/full/jco00061.html

but it has expired.



As for Henriette. Herbalists don't come with better qualifications



Nettles is not toxic.  Even "The American Pharmaceutical Association's

Practical Guide to Natural Medicines" doesn't state Nettles is toxic,

and it can hardly be claimed to be unbiased when it comes to plant

medicines.  I quote:



 "Through the ages the herb's nutritious, tender young shoots have

been eaten as vegetable and added to beer and other drinks and foods.

The vitamin C-rich shoots were once enlistedd to treat scurvy.  Nettle

has served as fodder for crops, as fiber for textiles, and as a source

for dye in the form of chlorophyll....German health

authorities...approve of nettle for increasing urination to treat

inflammatory conditions of the lower urinary tract, and help prevent

and treat kidney stones.....mounting scientific evidence supports the

use of nettle for early symptoms of BPH...Nette appears to be

relatively safe to use for most ailments."



pps 455-456, "The American Pharmaceutical Association's Practical

Guide to Natural Medicines" Andrea Peirce, 1999, The Stonesong Press,

Inc.  ISBN 0-688-16151-0



You are a pharmaceutical company troll. Nothing more.



As Henriette put it, we tire of you.  I will add, go peddle your

nonsense somewhere else. We aren't listening.



Linda N







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:56:49 -0600

--------

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:04:01 GMT, Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

wrote:



>

>You are a pharmaceutical company troll. Nothing more.

>

>As Henriette put it, we tire of you.  I will add, go peddle your

>nonsense somewhere else. We aren't listening.

>

>Linda N



I'll bet that he's as knowledgeable about herbs as he is about web

sites.  Track his URL back by one and see yet another example of

either do-it-yourself or "I've got a nephew who does that all the

time.  Pay him a thousand and he'll make you a great site."  



-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 25 Nov 2001 10:43:06 GMT

--------

Excerpt from Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>:



> The original link in JAMA online was:

> http://jama.ama.assn.org/issues/v284n4/full/jco00061.html

> but it has expired.



Little typo there, domain should be http://jama.ama-assn.org

I've been there, though not to that specific link.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:34:48 GMT

--------

On 25 Nov 2001 10:43:06 GMT, "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

wrote:



>Excerpt from Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>:

>

>> The original link in JAMA online was:

>> http://jama.ama.assn.org/issues/v284n4/full/jco00061.html

>> but it has expired.

>

>Little typo there, domain should be http://jama.ama-assn.org

>I've been there, though not to that specific link.



Thanks Thomas.



with the typo corrected the link is still good although the location

has changed.



http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v284n4/ffull/jco00061.html



Linda N.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: herblady@newsguy.com (Rasta Poodle)

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:55:39 GMT

--------

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:14:18 +0100, "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

wrote:



>That is nice but I did not say treat I said effectively treat.  These

>remedies either were totally worthless or of very little help.  I am

>sure you could find a medical book of the same era that recommended the

>treatment of various shall we say personal diseases with mercury componds.

>It did help because the patient became so crazy he did not worry about death

>and the medicine generally killed him before the disease did.   In medicine

>there is

>no good old days.



>Looking forward to the C.V.'s

>

>James



Mr. Maison mousse, you have now officially entered the realm of newsgroup

troll. You come to a herbal folklore group and slam the herbs.  Your CV is

worthless here, because you don't even have the coursework you demanded others

have, e.g. organic chemistry. Troll, pure and simple. Stop trying to impress us

with your limited trollish 'knowledge', stop creating new subject headers to

crow about your 'superior' knowledge, just stop. Please. 



         Anya  {{{*_*}}}

Visit my "Aromatherapy Debunked and Defended" site

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

Bob Marley and the Wailers album "Exodus"

named "Album of the Century" by Time magazine







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:30:14 -0700

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:





>>  We are talking about cooking and herbal medicine, not

>>bacteriology.  And the bacteriologists didn't do too well against

>>the Spanish flu either.

>Not only have vaccines been developed for the spanish flu , modern

>antivirals and antibiotics for the secondary effects  have been developed so

>that the mortality rate is very low.



  YOu criticised the "olde women" for not doing well aganist the

spanish Flu ... they did as well as the bacteriologists of their

day.  Nowadays the old women get the vaccine. 



>>I have a 1927 Materia Medica that

>>is chock full of herbal remedies that were in use in the

>>pre-antibiotic era for treating all kinds of serious diseases.



>That is nice but I did not say treat I said effectively treat.  These

>remedies either were totally worthless or of very little help.



  Oh really?  Care to cite (not "site") your sources for the

uselessness of the 1930s pharmaceuticals? 



>sure you could find a medical book of the same era that recommended the

>treatment of various shall we say personal diseases with mercury componds.



  No .. Salvarsan 606 had been invented. 









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: herblady@newsguy.com (Rasta Poodle)

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:37:55 GMT

--------

On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:59:34 +0100, "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

wrote:



>Thank you for the very nice replies.  I would suggest a telephone call

>to your local poison control center and ask them the effects of drinking

>tea made from stinging nettle leaves.  But then they may be part

>of that international anti-herb conspiracy.  Call you spell paranoid

>loonies?  It would take a total brain dead fool not to know that a plant so

>full of formic acid that it causes minor contact burn is poisonous.

>All parts of the nettle is toxic to some degree including the root.

>Now how about if you experts let me know what university you attended.

>Only those who are too lazy or stupid to get a real education do not value

>one.

>

>   James



James Lumpkin, the official new troll of afh.  BTW, I attended the University

of California and have a degree in Ethnobotany. Many here have degrees, and

also have some degree of civility and do not troll. 



         Anya  {{{*_*}}}

Visit my "Aromatherapy Debunked and Defended" site

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

Bob Marley and the Wailers album "Exodus"

named "Album of the Century" by Time magazine







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:19:39 -0700

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



>Thank you for the very nice replies.  I would suggest a telephone call

>to your local poison control center and ask them the effects of drinking

>tea made from stinging nettle leaves.  But then they may be part

>of that international anti-herb conspiracy.  Call you spell paranoid

>loonies?  It would take a total brain dead fool not to know that a plant so

>full of formic acid that it causes minor contact burn is poisonous.



  Nettles inject the formic acid into the skin from a gland at

the base of the sting, the "sting" being a brittle and incredibly

sharp-tipped structure on stems and leaves.  It's a contact

dermatitis, not a burn.











Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:46:17 -0600

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote



> The only places I have heard of nettles being used as food is in books and

> websites of those who promote herbal medicine.  It's

> toxicity is like that of Johnson grass  ( Sorghum halepense (L.) Pers.)

> in that it can very from a little to a lot.

>

> There is a brief C.V. at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/james.lumpkins/qual.htm

>

> This was directed at the subject at hand.  Left out were courses in

> biology, geobiology, Palo Botany , microbiology, anatomy and  physiology.



Actually, I know people who still use nettles as food and I have a wonderful

recipe for nettle soup.



It's not folklore, people still eat them with no ill effects.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: bilherbs@aol.com (Bilherbs)

Date: 22 Nov 2001 21:49:53 GMT

--------

>"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote

>

>> The only places I have heard of nettles being used as food is in books and

>> websites of those who promote herbal medicine.  It's

>> toxicity is like that of Johnson grass  ( Sorghum halepense (L.) Pers.)

>> in that it can very from a little to a lot.

>>

>> There is a brief C.V. at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/james.lumpkins/qual.htm

>>

>> This was directed at the subject at hand.  Left out were courses in

>> biology, geobiology, Palo Botany , microbiology, anatomy and  physiology.

>

>Actually, I know people who still use nettles as food and I have a wonderful

>recipe for nettle soup.

>

>It's not folklore, people still eat them with no ill effects.

>

>Loki



I drink nettle infusion by the gallon all year long and have been doing this

for a long time. Nettle and potato soup is wonderful.



Belinda





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:49:07 -0600

--------

"Bilherbs" <bilherbs@aol.com> wrote



> I drink nettle infusion by the gallon all year long and have been doing

this

> for a long time. Nettle and potato soup is wonderful.



Yeah, I make an infusion that has, among other herbs - nettles in it.  I

drink it frequently in the winter with no ill effects.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:03:50 -0500

--------



"Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:h6vpvtscekpgdrk3v0bugfbvemvp5jd0bj@4ax.com...

> "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

>

> >Madame you are correct in that I should have said glycyrrhizine.  when

> >speaking of licorice.  However you are very wrong about nettles not

> >containing cardiac glucosides.

>

>   Nettles used to be a commonly eaten vegetable.  Hard to attain

> that status when you are toxic.





People eat Poke also ... yet it is very toxic when not young or when

prepared improperly.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: bilherbs@aol.com (Bilherbs)

Date: 24 Nov 2001 18:36:24 GMT

--------

>People eat Poke also ... yet it is very toxic when not young or when

>prepared improperly.

>



hehe...  I really do love these posts. So how do you prepare it properly and

how young does it have to be. We use Poke root tincture for the animals and

ourselves. When my hands start to hurting really bad in the winter I eat dried

berries.



 Sill alive and kicking,



Belinda





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 10:45:25 -0500

--------

Since you seem unable to read any reference book or do a simple search on

your own, here is the first place I looked:



"Caution: The fresh plant is poisonous, and in large doses the dried root is

an irritant and emetic and cathartic; there are also concerns for its wider

safety. It should be used only as prescribed by a qualified practitioner,

and the recommended dosages should never be exceeded. The seeds in the

berries are poisonous and have caused fatalities in children. It may cause

foetal abnormalities, so should not be used during pregnancy."



Yes, it is prescribed for lymphatic conditions and rheumatism. Overdose of

root preparations can be problematic, seeds should never be kept where any

child might accidentally ingest them (and all children brought up where the

are wild should be properly educated not to eat them). Dried berries are

apparently not as toxic as the fresh, but children that learn to eat dried

ones can then decide to have the fresh ones, thinking they will be similar

to blueberries, blackberries or black raspberries that no doubt also grow

wild in the same areas. There is some evidence that the berries may be

cooked and the poisonous parts will be neutralized, so cooked pies are

possible (but I don't think I would try it).  Many things our ancestors at

in small quantities were not especially good for them, causing minute organ

damage each time. Don't forget that their life span was not that great.



To eat the shoots: generally pick leaves from young plants, not more than

12" tall (they also get too tough to be edible, as well as concentrating the

alkaloids in the leaves). Wash the leaves, Bring to a boil, discard the

water and repeat, discarding that water also, boil in a third change of

water until tender. Then generally fry up in a little hot bacon grease.

Considered to be a good spring tonic, no doubt due to its action on the

lymph glands.  Despite most of my relatives eating Poke Sallet each spring,

we were also brought up to know that it was not something to mess around

with in the wild state or to be consummed very often.



Toxic compounds: Phytolaccatoxin and related triterpene saponins, an

alkaloid (phytolaccin), and histamines



General recommendations are to label the entire plant as poisonous. Note

that this is also a common source of poisoned cattle (and apparently pigs).

They will eat the young plants, getting quantities of root and older stems

(generally they leave the older ones alone), resulting in illness or even

death. Symptoms of poisoning are similar to those in humans:



"The eating of nonfatal quantities of poke, perhaps of the shoots, may cause

retching or vomiting after two hours or more. These signs may be followed by

dyspnea, perspiration, spasms, severe purging, prostration, tremors, watery

diarrhea (often bloody) and, sometimes, convulsions. If a fatal quantity is

eaten, perhaps including roots, the above signs are followed by paralysis of

the respiratory organs and other narcotic effects, culminating in the death

of the poisoned animal."



Most who have cattle in areas that Poke is native eradicate it.  Just as you

also must limit cows access to acorns in the early fall, supplementing their

feed to prevent them from overdosing on that as well.



Karen





"Bilherbs" <bilherbs@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011124133624.02487.00000657@mb-fi.aol.com...

> >People eat Poke also ... yet it is very toxic when not young or when

> >prepared improperly.

> >

>

> hehe...  I really do love these posts. So how do you prepare it properly

and

> how young does it have to be. We use Poke root tincture for the animals

and

> ourselves. When my hands start to hurting really bad in the winter I eat

dried

> berries.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 27 Nov 2001 10:25:23 GMT

--------

> "Caution: The fresh plant is poisonous, and in large doses the dried root is

  an irritant and emetic and cathartic; there are also concerns for its wider

  safety. It should be used only as prescribed by a qualified practitioner,

  and the recommended dosages should never be exceeded. The seeds in the

  berries are poisonous and have caused fatalities in children. It may cause

  foetal abnormalities, so should not be used during pregnancy."



> Yes, it is prescribed for lymphatic conditions and rheumatism. Overdose of

  root preparations can be problematic, seeds should never be kept where any

  child might accidentally ingest them (and all children brought up where the

  are wild should be properly educated not to eat them). Dried berries are

  apparently not as toxic as the fresh, but children that learn to eat dried

  ones can then decide to have the fresh ones, thinking they will be similar

  to blueberries, blackberries or black raspberries that no doubt also grow

  wild in the same areas. There is some evidence that the berries may be

  cooked and the poisonous parts will be neutralized, so cooked pies are

  possible (but I don't think I would try it).  Many things our ancestors at

  in small quantities were not especially good for them, causing minute organ

  damage each time. Don't forget that their life span was not that great.



> To eat the shoots: generally pick leaves from young plants, not more than

  12" tall (they also get too tough to be edible, as well as concentrating the

  alkaloids in the leaves). Wash the leaves, Bring to a boil, discard the

  water and repeat, discarding that water also, boil in a third change of

  water until tender. Then generally fry up in a little hot bacon grease.

  Considered to be a good spring tonic, no doubt due to its action on the

  lymph glands.  Despite most of my relatives eating Poke Sallet each spring,

  we were also brought up to know that it was not something to mess around

  with in the wild state or to be consummed very often.



> Toxic compounds: Phytolaccatoxin and related triterpene saponins, an

  alkaloid (phytolaccin), and histamines



> General recommendations are to label the entire plant as poisonous. Note

  that this is also a common source of poisoned cattle (and apparently pigs).

  They will eat the young plants, getting quantities of root and older stems

  (generally they leave the older ones alone), resulting in illness or even

  death. Symptoms of poisoning are similar to those in humans:



> "The eating of nonfatal quantities of poke, perhaps of the shoots, may cause

  retching or vomiting after two hours or more. These signs may be followed by

  dyspnea, perspiration, spasms, severe purging, prostration, tremors, watery

  diarrhea (often bloody) and, sometimes, convulsions. If a fatal quantity is

  eaten, perhaps including roots, the above signs are followed by paralysis of

  the respiratory organs and other narcotic effects, culminating in the death

  of the poisoned animal."



> Most who have cattle in areas that Poke is native eradicate it.  Just as you

  also must limit cows access to acorns in the early fall, supplementing their

  feed to prevent them from overdosing on that as well.



> Karen



I've eaten poke salad cooked, never raw, never suffered symptoms of poisoning.

It is very seasonal, so I didn't stay with it very long, but have eaten as much

as three pounds (about 1.36 kg) in one week, weight before cooking.  I took the

appearance of flower buds as an indication that plant was past its salad days,

not really sure the plant passes a toxicity threshold at that point.  I would

cook in the same pot with beans and grains, or sometimes in a glass-covered

ceramic container with other vegetables, so I never had cooking water to

discard.  This may violate the usual recommendations, but I didn't suffer

poisoning.  I also like(d) dandelion, chickweed and other edible weeds.  I never

ate poke berries, cooked or raw.



Poke berries look a lot like blueberries, but the poke plant is very different

in appearance from a blueberry shrub.  Blackberries and black raspberries are

markedly different in appearance from poke berries, I don't see how anyone with

any familiarity could mistake poke berries for blackberries or black

raspberries.



I think raw poke salad would be more toxic than cooked, and animals such as

cattle don't get to cook their poke salad.  I wouldn't have known if cattle

would eat poke, or acorns.  Do pigs tolerate acorns better than do cattle?



Does anybody know if cooked poke berries are toxic, and if there are long-term

effects as opposed to short-term?  I've read the seeds in poke berries are

toxic, but nothing was said about the effect of cooking.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:07:51 -0500

--------

"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

news:9tvpmg$57nfq$2@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

> I've eaten poke salad cooked, never raw, never suffered

> symptoms of poisoning. It is very seasonal, so I didn't stay

> with it very long, but have eaten as much as three pounds (about

> 1.36 kg) in one week, weight before cooking.  I took the

> appearance of flower buds as an indication that plant was past

> its salad days, not really sure the plant passes a toxicity

> threshold at that point.  I would cook in the same pot with

> beans and grains, or sometimes in a glass-covered ceramic

> container with other vegetables, so I never had cooking water to

> discard.  This may violate the usual recommendations, but I

> didn't suffer poisoning.  I also like(d) dandelion, chickweed

> and other edible weeds.  I never ate poke berries, cooked or raw.





Did you notice any thermogenic effect, such as hot flashes or a marked

increase in warmth that week?



Sean

---











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 29 Nov 2001 12:13:35 GMT

--------

>Did you notice any thermogenic effect, such as hot flashes or a marked

>increase in warmth that week?



>Sean

---

(apparently in reference to eating cooked poke salad)



I didn't notice any thermogenic effect from the poke salad.  If I felt an

increase in warmth, it would have been from the weather, since it was spring

going into summer.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:59:03 -0700

--------

"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote:



>I wouldn't have known if cattle

>would eat poke, or acorns.  Do pigs tolerate acorns better than do cattle?



  Pigs FATTEN on acorns, as do deer. 



>Does anybody know if cooked poke berries are toxic, and if there are long-term

>effects as opposed to short-term?  I've read the seeds in poke berries are

>toxic, but nothing was said about the effect of cooking.



  Not toxic, but not very good either.  The Pokeberry (Phytolacca

decandra) is better used for inks and natural dyes.



  The danger with the nettle plant is to children and

enthusiastic but uninformed harvesters of edibles.  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:24:05 -0700

--------

"KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co> wrote:



>

>"Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>   Nettles used to be a commonly eaten vegetable.  Hard to attain

>> that status when you are toxic.



>

>People eat Poke also ... yet it is very toxic when not young or when

>prepared improperly.



  Yes, and the "old ladies" know that it has to be "poke salad" -

fresh young leaves, not roots or old leaves.  Or ripe

pokeberries, for a mediocre substitute for blackberries.  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:19:03 -0500

--------

Actually, he has one valid point.



If you check the translation of the 2nd reference (the first is about the

possible ways to poison your dog), it is about licorice, seems well written

(with the limits of the translator) and reasoned. Good list of both ancient

uses of licorice, new research (including against cankers and AIDS) and

dosage info in various forms (again, limited somewhat by the translation as

to exact form). Under interactions with other drugs you get:



"The use of liquorice combined with that of diuretic can increase the

potassium loss while an increased potassium loss increases the sensitivity

to glucosides of digitalin."



So, I would think common sense would indicate limiting self-dosage of

licorice while taking any digitalin based heart medication and being treated

with diuretics (a very common combination).  But, "long term use" may not be

necessary to cause problems, just as self-treatment with potassium

supplements or blood thinning herbs can cause problems with the conditions

usually treated by such drugs.



Karen





"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message

news:9tfqqp$rea$1@wanadoo.fr...



> contain cardiac glucosides similar to digitalis.  Licorice

> contains glycyrrhizaglabra which increases the effect of the glucoside.

> Long term use of a combination of these herbs can lead

> to heart failure.

.....

>

> http://www.reseauproteus.net/1001solutions/g/glycyrrhizaglabra.htm

>

> http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0175.htm









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 03:55:45 -0800

--------

We must not forget , most herbs are toxic if mixed wrongly. The same goes for

drugs , and he did point out mixed together. There is not much in the way of

trials on , interactions with herbs. And every book on herbs I've read , made it

very clear to be careful when mixing herbs. And from what I read I don't think

he was trying to be a troll , but even if he was you old ladys defended Nettle.

Better then most attn. could have , there by turning the tables the way it

should be. We need people to point out bad thing with herbs , so we learn if it

is true and about all of the good things about them to. I for one know that if

anyone puts something on this nag , that ant true they will be called on it. And

I will indeed learn much about it , from all the post that will follow it.



taschlauch



KOland wrote:



> Actually, he has one valid point.

>

> If you check the translation of the 2nd reference (the first is about the

> possible ways to poison your dog), it is about licorice, seems well written

> (with the limits of the translator) and reasoned. Good list of both ancient

> uses of licorice, new research (including against cankers and AIDS) and

> dosage info in various forms (again, limited somewhat by the translation as

> to exact form). Under interactions with other drugs you get:

>

> "The use of liquorice combined with that of diuretic can increase the

> potassium loss while an increased potassium loss increases the sensitivity

> to glucosides of digitalin."

>

> So, I would think common sense would indicate limiting self-dosage of

> licorice while taking any digitalin based heart medication and being treated

> with diuretics (a very common combination).  But, "long term use" may not be

> necessary to cause problems, just as self-treatment with potassium

> supplements or blood thinning herbs can cause problems with the conditions

> usually treated by such drugs.

>

> Karen

>

> "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message

> news:9tfqqp$rea$1@wanadoo.fr...

>

> > contain cardiac glucosides similar to digitalis.  Licorice

> > contains glycyrrhizaglabra which increases the effect of the glucoside.

> > Long term use of a combination of these herbs can lead

> > to heart failure.

> .....

> >

> > http://www.reseauproteus.net/1001solutions/g/glycyrrhizaglabra.htm

> >

> > http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0175.htm







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:28:07 +0200

--------

taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx> wrote:



> We must not forget , most herbs are toxic if mixed wrongly. The same goes for

> drugs , and he did point out mixed together. 



Well, no.



If two herbs are nontoxic when used as single herbs, you can be sure they're

nontoxic when used as a mix. You have to REALLY look hard to find any exceptions

- offhand I can't think of a single one.



> KOland wrote:

> 

> > to exact form). Under interactions with other drugs you get:

> >

> > "The use of liquorice combined with that of diuretic can increase the

> > potassium loss while an increased potassium loss increases the sensitivity

> > to glucosides of digitalin."



Well no. That's theoretical, and based on the single constituent, glycyrrhizin.

You have to _really_ apply yourself to get enough glycyrrhyzin to get side

effects from the whole herb, licorice - and why would you?



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: "KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:01:35 -0500

--------

Don't know why anyone would.



If you track down enough pages on nettles, you find those recommending them

as a nutritious supplement when eaten and as tonic tea for pregnant women.

The same page warns that if you reduce enough of them down and produce a

concentrate, you get an abortifacient



http://www.childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/herbsandvit/index.php



Other pages point to its use as a diuretic. Also not a problem, unless

carried to an extreme. Anything can be overdone.



In reference to the glucosides, one site did have an analysis of some of the

active components .. one glucoside is present in the root:

"Constituents: Leaves: Flavonoids (isoquercitin, rutin); acrid components,

particularly in the stinging hairs (including histamine and

5-hydroxytryptamine, formic acid, volatile and resinous acids); silica,

glucoquinone, tannins, ascorbic acid and other minerals and vitamins in

appreciable levels. Root: polysaccharides, sterols and sterol glucosides,

lignans, ceramides, fatty acids, monoterpene diols and glucosides" ...

http://www.purplesage.org.uk/profiles/nettle.htm



Of course, sterol glucosides are sometimes considered a good thing (example,

as an active ingredient in cloves - http://www.aluwe.com/vita_cpdm2.html )

and are generally considered to vary widely in their effects, depending on

the source (which determines exact configurations of the compounds).



So, in theory: possibly, you could produce a concentrate from the root which

contains enough glucosides from the root,  that taken together with a

concentrate of licorice could cause problems (with potassium loss from both

the licorice and from the natural diuretic effects of the nettles). But, as

you say, why would you want to? Unless you thought this was some new chic

diet combination?  More likely, such concentrates would have other adverse

affects on your body as well.



There are much easier ways to hurt yourself, without trying so hard. And

ways of harming someone else without the effort.



Karen





"Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:lhtuvtshrf9q6cd53ic7rgfhe6forge0nk@4ax.com...>

...

> Well no. That's theoretical, and based on the single constituent,

glycyrrhizin.

> You have to _really_ apply yourself to get enough glycyrrhyzin to get side

> effects from the whole herb, licorice - and why would you?









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Mixing herbes

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:45:08 +0200

--------

"KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co> wrote:



> Don't know why anyone would.

> 

> If you track down enough pages on nettles, you find those recommending them

> as a nutritious supplement when eaten and as tonic tea for pregnant women.

> The same page warns that if you reduce enough of them down and produce a

> concentrate, you get an abortifacient



Not using the herb and what's in your kitchen, you don't. You need a lab for

that, and what are we talking about then? Yep, that's right, pharmacognosy. And

that's not herbs.



> In reference to the glucosides, one site did have an analysis of some of the

> active components .. one glucoside is present in the root:



There are lots of different glycosides. Only one group of them is heart active.



Saying that a plant contains glycosides is about as informative as saying it

contains, oh, flavonoids, or alkaloids, or vitamins. Be specific. And nettles do

not contain heart glycosides. You won't even find those in the root.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Depressed

From: bluebells <bluebellswood@shaw.ca>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:28:36 GMT

--------

Hello Again

Can anyone suggest something to lift the spirits at this time of year.

Thank you

Diana







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Depressed

From: bilherbs@aol.com (Bilherbs)

Date: 22 Nov 2001 01:46:36 GMT

--------

>Can anyone suggest something to lift the spirits at this time of year.

>Thank you

>Diana



- Doing a good deed for somebody in need.

- Spending a day outdoors 

- A nice long hot bath and a good book

- St John's Wort tincture



Belinda





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Depressed

From: hherbalone@aol.com (HHerbalOne)

Date: 22 Nov 2001 12:34:21 GMT

--------

>From: bluebells bluebellswood@shaw.ca 



>Hello Again

>Can anyone suggest something to lift the spirits at this time of year.

>Thank you

>Diana



Depends.  Is this an emotional response to the holidays, or something physical

due to the season, health, etc.?



HH





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Depressed

From: bluebells <bluebellswood@shaw.ca>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:30:21 GMT

--------

Hi



HHerbalOne wrote:



> >From: bluebells bluebellswood@shaw.ca

>

> >Hello Again

> >Can anyone suggest something to lift the spirits at this time of year.

> >Thank you

> >Diana

>

> Depends.  Is this an emotional response to the holidays, or something physical

> due to the season, health, etc.?

>

> HH



I guess it's the season - not really an wemotional response - I really like the

holidays - they are lovely , but dreading the next three months

Thanks for asking







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Depressed

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:50:40 +0200

--------

bluebells <bluebellswood@shaw.ca> wrote:

> HHerbalOne wrote:

> > >From: bluebells bluebellswood@shaw.ca

> >

> > >Hello Again

> > >Can anyone suggest something to lift the spirits at this time of year.

> > >Thank you

> > >Diana

> >

> > Depends.  Is this an emotional response to the holidays, or something physical

> > due to the season, health, etc.?

> 

> I guess it's the season - not really an wemotional response - I really like the

> holidays - they are lovely , but dreading the next three months



Try oats,  tinctured in the milky seed stage. That'll help you right away. You

can do SJW tincture, too, but that'll take a while to kick in.



The winter blues are quite common around here, but shouldn't be too bad this

year, because we have lots of snow already, which lightens up the landscape

something fierce.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Depressed

From: bluebells <bluebellswood@shaw.ca>

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:52:35 GMT

--------

Hi Henriette

Thank you and to the others who replied



Henriette Kress wrote:



> >Try oats,  tinctured in the milky seed stage. That'll help you right away. You

> can do SJW tincture, too, but that'll take a while to kick in.



I'm not sure what 'tinctured in the milky seed stage' means.  How do I proceed,

please?

BTW  we live in a virtual rain forest - no snow yet, but we may get a little in the

New Year.

Thanks again

Diana







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Depressed

From: do_not_use_this_address@spamhole.com (Albert T.)

Date: 27 Nov 2001 18:03:06 -0800

--------

Hello,



Will oats help if an emotional component is present?.



SJWort did not help.



Thanks



Albert





X-No-archive: yes

Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message news:<cakuvt0491h4ldkobg2q4b3qo59bfhhv28@4ax.com>...

> bluebells <bluebellswood@shaw.ca> wrote:

> > HHerbalOne wrote:

> > > >From: bluebells bluebellswood@shaw.ca

>  

> > > >Hello Again

> > > >Can anyone suggest something to lift the spirits at this time of year.

> > > >Thank you

> > > >Diana

> > >

> > > Depends.  Is this an emotional response to the holidays, or something physical

> > > due to the season, health, etc.?

> > 

> > I guess it's the season - not really an wemotional response - I really like the

> > holidays - they are lovely , but dreading the next three months

> 

> Try oats,  tinctured in the milky seed stage. That'll help you right away. You

> can do SJW tincture, too, but that'll take a while to kick in.

> 

> The winter blues are quite common around here, but shouldn't be too bad this

> year, because we have lots of snow already, which lightens up the landscape

> something fierce.

> 

> Cheers

> Henriette





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Depressed

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:56:36 +0200

--------

do_not_use_this_address@spamhole.com (Albert T.) wrote:



> Will oats help if an emotional component is present?.



Perhaps. It's worth a try anyway. You'll be able to tell if it works within

days. Do the milky seed tincture, it's the best form of oats for

nerve/nervous/mind problems.



> SJWort did not help.



Did you use it for long enough? It's 3-4 weeks before you can tell. And use

deep-red tinctures, that way you can tell if they're good yourself (the redder

the better).



Nick told me that Chinese Hypericum contains no hypericin at all at all. Ergo,

no red color. But it's the cheapest on the market, so it gets bought in huge

quantities. Where does that end up? You got it, Hypericum "standardized"

extracts. Nick, care to tell us if cheap synthetic hypericin is available now?



Combine lousy Hypericum with a marker constituent that does nothing whatsoever,

and you have a worthless extract, _with_ all the side effects of the pure

constituent, hypericin. It's too easy to cheat on standardized extracts. 



Learn to tell a good tincture from a bad one, good dried herb from bad dried

herb, and ditch pharmagiant stuff.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Depressed

From: bluebells <bluebellswood@shaw.ca>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:28:50 GMT

--------





Leaves & Roots wrote:



> "bluebells" <bluebellswood@shaw.ca> wrote in message

> news:3BFC2ACB.86DADF3E@shaw.ca...

> > Hello Again

> > Can anyone suggest something to lift the spirits at this time of year.

> > Thank you

> > Diana

> >

>

> something legal?



Iguess itwould have to be - herbalwise









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Culinary herbFAQ part 7/7

From: "C." <cbiach@yahoo.com>

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:26:44 -0500

--------



I was wondering... would it be possible to post just a link to the

FAQ, rather than the whole big message?  It takes awfully long to 

download on my (admittedly slow) modem...



Thanks,

C.



Henriette Kress wrote:



> Archive-name: food/culinary-herbs/part7

> Posting-Frequency: monthly (on or about 20th)

> Last-modified: 2001/06/14

> Version: 1.17

> URL: http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

> 

>







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Culinary herbFAQ part 7/7

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:42:26 +0200

--------

"C." <cbiach@yahoo.com> wrote:



> 

> I was wondering... would it be possible to post just a link to the

> FAQ, rather than the whole big message?  It takes awfully long to 

> download on my (admittedly slow) modem...



There are still people who do not have web access. The web is a nice extra, but

the real place for usenet FAQs is - usenet.



Any decent newsreader has a setting for long messages (ie. don't download any

over x lines). Perhaps you can find such a setting in Mozilla?



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Culinary herbFAQ part 7/7

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:28:24 -0700

--------

"C." <cbiach@yahoo.com> wrote:



>I was wondering... would it be possible to post just a link to the

>FAQ, rather than the whole big message?  It takes awfully long to 

>download on my (admittedly slow) modem...



  Set your newsreader to download only the headers, select what

you want to read, and download only the selected message bodies.

Almost any newsreader can do this, but you'll have to read the

help file and find the settings. 











Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Culinary herbFAQ part 7/7

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 23 Nov 2001 10:00:23 GMT

--------

"C." <cbiach@yahoo.com> wrote:



> I was wondering... would it be possible to post just a link to the

> FAQ, rather than the whole big message?  It takes awfully long to

> download on my (admittedly slow) modem...



Herb FAQ totals about 800 KB in 14 messages.  You don't say your exact rated

modem speed, but I was able to get about 80 KB/min when I had the 14.4K modem,

most of that was on CompuServe.  Such a modem should download the 14 FAQ

messages in perhaps 12 minutes, though software factors could slow things down.

I think most ISPs don't accept connection speed < 14.4K.









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Culinary herbFAQ part 7/7

From: "KOland" <not a valid address@bad.co>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:31:15 -0500

--------

Usenet is international. Care to guess how fast  access is overseas or how

much they pay per minute (both to phone companies and ISP's) for access?



Even many phone companies in the US still do not guarantee over 300 baud

access (since they don't have to by law).







"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

news:9tl6nm$39rib$1@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

> "C." <cbiach@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> > I was wondering... would it be possible to post just a link to the

> > FAQ, rather than the whole big message?  It takes awfully long to

> > download on my (admittedly slow) modem...

>

> Herb FAQ totals about 800 KB in 14 messages.  You don't say your exact

rated

> modem speed, but I was able to get about 80 KB/min when I had the 14.4K

modem,

> most of that was on CompuServe.  Such a modem should download the 14 FAQ

> messages in perhaps 12 minutes, though software factors could slow things

down.

> I think most ISPs don't accept connection speed < 14.4K.

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Diabetic Neuropathy

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:48:15 -0600

--------

Ok, so I've just found out I have this.  I'm looking into it having had no

previous experience with the condition.  I am told it is reversible and am

wondering if anyone here has successfully reversed it (or even controlled

it) through natural means.



I've seen Evening Primrose Oil recommended along with ALA but have no

experience with ALA.



Any and all suggestions will be appreciated and evaluated and maybe even

tried...



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Diabetic Neuropathy

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:39:37 -0700

--------

"loki" <loki5@mindspring.com> wrote:



>Ok, so I've just found out I have this.  I'm looking into it having had no

>previous experience with the condition.  I am told it is reversible and am

>wondering if anyone here has successfully reversed it (or even controlled

>it) through natural means.



  Meticulously keeping your blood sugar under control by careful

diet and testing and insulin (it's a hormone, which by definition

is natural) is the only way to keep it from progressing.  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Diabetic Neuropathy

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:46:47 -0600

--------

"Tsu Dho Nimh" <abacaxi@hotmail.com> wrote

>

>   Meticulously keeping your blood sugar under control by careful

> diet and testing and insulin (it's a hormone, which by definition

> is natural) is the only way to keep it from progressing.



Well, I don't need insulin to keep my blood sugar at non-diabetic levels and

I do have those levels now.  My blood sugar today was 109.  I'm very good at

controlling diet and exercise and I do take a medication.



The folks on the diabetic newsgroups say that there are things that can

reverse such damage.  I was just wondering what folks here thought about the

idea.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Diabetic Neuropathy

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 04:22:40 -0700

--------

"loki" <loki5@mindspring.com> wrote:



>Well, I don't need insulin to keep my blood sugar at non-diabetic levels and

>I do have those levels now.  My blood sugar today was 109.  I'm very good at

>controlling diet and exercise and I do take a medication.

>

>The folks on the diabetic newsgroups say that there are things that can

>reverse such damage.  I was just wondering what folks here thought about the

>idea.



If the neuropathy is not long-standing, you have a chance at it.

Don't statrt taking every recommended thing at once ... if there

are side effects you can't figure out what caused it out of a

crowd.  



Try each remedy in turn, giving it a couple of weeks to see if

there is any effect.  B-vitamin supplements (folic acid and b-12)

are probably my top 2 choices.  





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Diabetic Neuropathy

From: "Nutri  Person" <nutri_person@earthlink.net>

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:41:47 GMT

--------

"loki" <loki5@mindspring.com> wrote

> Well, I don't need insulin to keep my blood sugar at non-diabetic levels

and

> I do have those levels now.  My blood sugar today was 109.  I'm very good

at

> controlling diet and exercise and I do take a medication.

>

> The folks on the diabetic newsgroups say that there are things that can

> reverse such damage.  I was just wondering what folks here thought about

the

> idea.



        Would  taking  the  herb  aloe  vera  and  grape

        seed  extract  help  with  diabetic  neuropathy????













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Diabetic Neuropathy

From: Alan Pollock <nexus@king.cts.com>

Date: 30 Nov 2001 02:42:22 GMT

--------

loki <loki5@mindspring.com> wrote:



> Well, I don't need insulin to keep my blood sugar at non-diabetic levels and

> I do have those levels now.  My blood sugar today was 109.  I'm very good at

> controlling diet and exercise and I do take a medication.





109 means zilch unless you say when you took the measurement. If you took it 2 

hours after a meal, bravo. If you took it before a meal, ho hum. Nex





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Diabetic Neuropathy

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:21:02 -0600

--------

"Alan Pollock" <nexus@king.cts.com> wrote in message

news:3c06f20d$0$41401$e2e8da3@nntp.cts.com...

> loki <loki5@mindspring.com> wrote:

>

> > Well, I don't need insulin to keep my blood sugar at non-diabetic levels

and

> > I do have those levels now.  My blood sugar today was 109.  I'm very

good at

> > controlling diet and exercise and I do take a medication.

>

>

> 109 means zilch unless you say when you took the measurement. If you took

it 2

> hours after a meal, bravo. If you took it before a meal, ho hum. Nex



It runs that after meals and also before meals.  I've got it fairly

constant.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Diabetic Neuropathy

From: Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:02:11 -0500

--------

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:48:15 -0600, loki <loki5@mindspring.com> wrote:



>Ok, so I've just found out I have this.  I'm looking into it having had no

>previous experience with the condition.  I am told it is reversible and am

>wondering if anyone here has successfully reversed it (or even controlled

>it) through natural means.



Peripheral neuropathy is often caused by nutritional deficiencies,

especially deficiency of B vitamins. This is discussed in the Merck Manual,

in Medline abstracts, other studies, and the celiac literature.

Malabsorption leading to nutritional deficiencies is what celiac disease is

all about.



While neuropathy is listed as a complication of diabetes, numerous studies

have found that about 7% of Type 1 diabetics are undiagnosed celiacs. Ergo,

there is a high probability that those diabetics with neuropathy are the

ones that are the undiagnosed celiacs.



Have you been tested for celiac disease? Even without the neuropathy

connection a 7% probability is high enough that all diabetics should be

tested.



Don <www.gluten-free.org>.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Medicinal herbFAQ Part 6/7

From: Q Tip <temporaryaddy99@tds.net>

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:16:48 -0500

--------

"xyz" <a@b.c> wrote:



>please repost 2 & 7, as they havnt appeard with the server i use :(



All the parts are available here,



http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/herbfaqs.html



or here.



ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/alt/folklore/herbs/

-- 

Q Tip





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Medicinal herbFAQ Part 6/7

From: Q Tip <temporaryaddy99@tds.net>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:47:03 -0500

--------

"Mrs. Wheeler" <gypsy@endor.com> wrote:



>how could ALL the parts be posted to the first addy you gave when on that

>page it says the last update was 9/01 and in the faqs henriette posted to

>this ng, it says they (the faqs) were last updated 11/01???

>

>just curious.



I would assume that 9/01 was the last time Henriette updated that

(personal) web site...  The FAQs have been around for years, are rather

large (others were complaining recently) and I doubt they have changed

much in the past two months.  The second link is an archive that auto

updates every time the FAQs are changed, however some browsers do not

handle ftp sites as well as http.  AFAIK all parts are available from

both links.

-- 

Q Tip





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Plant Pharmacology

From: herblady@newsguy.com (Rasta Poodle)

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:06:20 GMT

--------

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:57:02 +0100, "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

wrote:



>Note: For those of you who search the web for profession papers or

>research papers on plant pharmacology or any other scientific work you will

>find that almost none are present on open web sites. At best you will find

>an abstract of the paper but more often just a listing. As a rule you must

>acquire the journal that the paper was presented in. Most professional

>organization let people who have an interest in that profession join as an

>associate member. However often one must have a sponsor. This is no real

>problem if you are located near an university many professors will sponsor

>you if you show an interest. These journals also are available at University

>Libraries.

>

>James



Thank you very much for that lecture on how to conduct research. However, you

might notice nobody asked you, and that you're starting a subject just for your

own edification. I'm sure there are many Abnormal Psychology sites out there

that we could research to find out the exact name for your problem, but many of

us are too busy/don't care.



If you ever with to visit a great herbal information site, I recommend

Henriette's, and the links she provides from there. Great reading, great info,

no false claims, just good info. You might want to try it before trolling here

or lecturing us on your narrow world view anymore.

>

>

>





         Anya  {{{*_*}}}

Visit my "Aromatherapy Debunked and Defended" site

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

Bob Marley and the Wailers album "Exodus"

named "Album of the Century" by Time magazine







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Plant Pharmacology

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:39:40 -0500

--------

On 2001-11-23 06:06:21 PST maison.mousse (maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr) wrote:

> Note: For those of you who search the web for profession papers

> or research papers on plant pharmacology or any other scientific

> work you will find that almost none are present on open web

> sites. At best you will find an abstract of the paper but more

> often just a listing. As a rule you must acquire the journal

> that the paper was presented in. Most professional organization

> let people who have an interest in that profession join as an

> associate member. However often one must have a sponsor. This is

> no real problem if you are located near an university many

> professors will sponsor you if you show an interest. These

> journals also are available at University Libraries. > James



That's not the place to start library-Internet research any more. That's

where to finish, but only if the subject warrants such detailed

examination.  Nearly any health-related subject can be "80%" researched

(80-20 rule) by doing just three Internet searches: (1) Google web, (2)

Entrez-Pubmed (National Library of Medicine), (3) Google groups.



http://www.google.com/advanced_search?num=100

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?num=100&as_scoring=d&hl=en



I have configured both Google URLs to return 100 hits and Groups to return

hits with the most recent post first (default is "relevance").



The abstracts stored at Entrez-Pubmed are a starting point for some herbal

debates, but either the abstract or the debate has to be "interesting" to

be worth digging for the full paper. Even full-text papers rarely settle

herbal debates, partly because many herbal studies are so reductionistic

as to be meaningless to traditional holistic herbal practice. 



Sean

---













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Medicinal herbFAQ Part 5/7

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:37:13 GMT

--------

Henriette,



What happened to part 6 this time.



You posted parts 1-5 and then part 7 but I don't see part 6 posted.

Is it just my ISP?



Linda





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Medicinal herbFAQ Part 5/7

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:42:22 +0200

--------

Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net> wrote:



> What happened to part 6 this time.

> 

> You posted parts 1-5 and then part 7 but I don't see part 6 posted.

> Is it just my ISP?



Yes. It went out okay here; perhaps it'll show up later? If not, I'll send it

out again in a month.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Medicinal herbFAQ Part 5/7

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 25 Nov 2001 10:43:05 GMT

--------

Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net> wrote:



> What happened to part 6 this time.

>

> You posted parts 1-5 and then part 7 but I don't see part 6 posted.

> Is it just my ISP?



and Henriette responded:



>Yes. It went out okay here; perhaps it'll show up later? If not, I'll send it

>out again in a month.



I get all 14 parts of the herb FAQ, culinary and medicinal, through

news.cis.dfn.de, but remember getting only 2 or 3 through my ISP's news server

news.bluegrass.net.  Information is available at http://news.cis.dfn.de, open

to anybody, but you have to register, free of charge, they give you user name

and password.  No binary newsgroups.  They carry alt.aromatherapy but not

alt.folklore.aromatherapy, and none of the own.health.* newsgroups.



Otherwise, the FAQ should be available on Henriette's Web site, complete with

pictures and live links.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: need info on msm

From: "judy barrett" <poet5@mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:39:13 -0500

--------

    Hi Folks,

I am looking for information on MSM. I have looked on the web, and found

lots of cites, the problem is they all tell the good points because they are

trying to sell one brand or another. I know that it is really not an herb,

but there is a lot of knowledge on this list. My husband and I were thinking

of trying MSM for arthritis, but we want to do our homework first. Any

information will be appreciated. thanks







--

all blessings

Judy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: need info on msm

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:16:29 -0700

--------

"judy barrett" <poet5@mindspring.com> wrote:



>    Hi Folks,

>I am looking for information on MSM. I have looked on the web, and found

>lots of cites, the problem is they all tell the good points because they are

>trying to sell one brand or another. I know that it is really not an herb,

>but there is a lot of knowledge on this list. My husband and I were thinking

>of trying MSM for arthritis, but we want to do our homework first. Any

>information will be appreciated.



I tried it, and although it seemed to help my tendonitis, I was

getting bad headaches ... stopping it stopped the headaches.



It's in the "worth a try" supplement, especially if you also take

Glucosamine Chondroitin.  BTW - I got mine at Safeway, way

cheaper than any online or "health food" store.  It's also at any

major drugstore chain. 







Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: need info on msm

From: "judy barrett" <poet5@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:46:02 -0500

--------



Tsu Dho Nimh wrote



I tried it, and although it seemed to help my tendonitis, I was

getting bad headaches ... stopping it stopped the headaches.



It's in the "worth a try" supplement, especially if you also take

Glucosamine Chondroitin. BTW - I got mine at Safeway, way

cheaper than any online or "health food" store. It's also at any

major drugstore chain.



Thanks for the information and your observation. I am taking Glucosamine

Chondroitin with quercetin and bromelain. That combination seems to work

pretty well. The Vitamin shoppe also has Glucosamine Chondroitin with MSM. I

may try that when I run out of this combination to see which works best.



Thanks again

--

all blessings

Judy









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: need info on msm

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:48:38 -0600

--------

"Wakefield" <heretik@loa.com> wrote



>    I just saw an article claiming that one of them (MSM or glucosamine)

has

> side effects but has been shown to be effective even if only taken 1/week.

> Sorry I can't remember which it was. I may run across the article again.



Glucosamine is beginning to be suspected as a trigger for diabetes.  I've

read several articles on the subject though I remain unconvinced myself.  I

do know it raises my blood sugar levels though and I have stopped taking it

for that reason.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Determining heat and moisture balance (was: Herbs ...Cortisol?)

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 03:13:43 -0500 (EST)

--------

On 2001-11-23 08:49:56 PST loki (loki5@mindspring.com) wrote:

> Foxfire wrote:

> > [...] I wish every herbal advice requester would tell a.f.h

> > their heat and moisture balance, because allopathic docs don't

> > fully check this, and with it I think a.f.h responders could

> > give overall better advice.



> I suspect most do not know their heat and moisture balance.  

> I certainly do not know mine.



On 2001-11-23 17:07:21 PST cyli (cyli@tiny.net.invalid) wrote:

> Nor do I.  Could one of the TCM people here tell us if it's

> easy for an individual to find their own or is it something that

> only a trained practitioner can measure?





Relative heat and moisture balance are easy for you or anyone to

determine. Takahide Kuwaki (see below) calls this your "conformation".

Just think about and answer these two questions:



- Do you usually feel warm or cool, and do you like/dislike heaters or

coolers?

- Do you usually feel moist or dry, and do you like/dislike moist air or

dry air?



If you feel cool about as much as warm, and have no consistent preference

for either heaters or coolers, then you are probably in relative thermal

balance.



If you feel moist about as much as dry, and have no consistent preference

for either moist air or dry air (or drinking much/little water), then you

are probably in relative moisture balance.



Moisture balance is not much further discussed in what I've read. But

there is a lot more about temperature balance, both in TCM and western

practice. However, excess heat imbalance is said to produce dryness.



In the west, absolute thermal balance is determined approximately with an

oral fever thermometer at random times during the day or night, done just

like mom and the doc do. Using the Barnes Test method, absolute thermal

balance is determined exactly with a basal thermometer underarm

immediately on waking after at least six hours of sleep. Menstruating

women must make this basal measurement on the third day of the menses.

(See www.brodabarnes.org)



In TCM practice, absolute thermal balance is determined approximately by

observing the client for signs of heat or cold. Prof. Wicke's TCM signs of

heat (_Traditional Chinese Herbal Science, Vol.1_,1994 www.rmhiherbal.org) 

include rapid pulse, and red tongue with yellow tongue fur (or sometimes

just tiny red spots).  I would add: an obviously florid face or obvious

sweating, perhaps with loose clothing.  Wicke's TCM signs of cold include

slow pulse, pale tongue and white tongue fur. I would add: an obviously

pale face or extra clothing, perhaps fastened at the neck. 



TCM further describes mixtures of heat and cold signs in different parts

of the same person, as well as certain confusing states of false (yin)

heat and false (yang) cold.



> > Alternatively, the TCM/CHM herbal system is much less

> > interested in finding underlying causes, and more interested in

> > overall patterns of symptoms. But wow, to determine patterns of

> > symptoms TCM practitioners not only ask questions 6 & 7 (heat

> > balance & moisture balance), they also do a tongue inspection,

> > pulse diagnosis, diet summary, etc. And all professional

> > practitioners, allopath or alternative, take a complete health

> > history.



> Ah, since this is a TCM approach, no wonder I do not know mine.  

> I've never consulted a TCM practitioner. > Loki



Kuwaki's TCM/CHM book (_Chinese Herbal Therapy: A Guide to Its Principles

and Practice_, 1990) 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0941942309/qid=996830216/sr=1-4/ref=sc_b_4/103-9404960-6818225

uses tree diagrams which make it particularly easy to apply the proper TCM

herb formulas for a particular person's conformation. For example, he

describes eight different conformation formulas for diabetes mellitus.



But it's not just TCM. My Unani herbal medicine book (Chishti, 1991) 

describes excesses of heat, cold, moisture, and dryness as the Four

Primary Intemperaments.



Unani is the herbal system which followed Avicenna (1000 C.E.) who

followed Galen (150 C.E.) who followed Hippocrates (400 B.C.E.), perhaps

following the Egyptian dynasties, and so on back through the dawn of

civilization to tribal medicine.



Galen classified herbs according to their thermal effect on the human

body. (See Michael Tierra, OMD, for a description of Galenic herb thermal

classification: <http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/TWHM.html>) So, Galen

and earlier practitioners must have had a method for determining a

patient's thermal imbalance in order to prescribe a herb which would both

cure the disease and restore thermal equilibrium.  



Perhaps Galen merely placed a hand on the patient's forehead, observed

use/disuse of blankets, and asked if they felt fever or chills. That would

be a quick and easy method to determine herb temperament for use during

febrile diseases, but it's just my speculation. Today's chronic diseases

probably make temperaments less obvious.



I assume that every professional herbalist has learned a clinical practice

to determine a client's current temperature and moisture balance. While

Wicke (TCM) is specific on such a method in his textbook, Chisti (Unani)

and Mills (Euro) are not.



If anyone can describe the heat and moisture evaluation methods which

Michael Moore's U.S.-herbal school teaches, and those of classic

Euro-herbal schools, I would be very interested to hear them.



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Determining heat and moisture balance (was: Herbs ...Cortisol?)

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 05:22:13 -0600

--------

On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 03:13:43 -0500 (EST), Foxfire

<foxfire@piglet.ASARian.org> wrote:



Good information snipped.



Thanks for the response.  Interesting stuff.

-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Control sex herb

From: "FAKE COP" <fakecop@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:54:26 GMT

--------

Hello I live in the state of  La. and I am looking for all kinds of herbs

that will decrease an overactive sexual drive (nothing permanent, of

course). I am looking for herbs that will work for men and for women. Herbs

similar to chasteberry, once called "monk's peppers", which is known to calm

sexual desire in men. Any assistance will be well appreciated. Thanks.













==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Control sex herb

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:05:54 -0800

--------

Well more info is needed , like what sexual problem they have to give them an

overactive sexual drive in the first place. If by taking something , what sexual

problem they have that they took something for it. Anyway you look at it , it

comes down to what their under lining sexual problem really is. Of course they

may think it is not a real sexual problem , but it really is one so they must

treat that in any case. If it was some dumb thing they just didn't think about ,

then they should start thinking about it. Now as for your ??? , salt peter

should help but I can not say for sure. If it is a real problem where it hurts (

the male most often ), they should seek the help of a MD.



taschlauch



FAKE COP wrote:



> Hello I live in the state of  La. and I am looking for all kinds of herbs

> that will decrease an overactive sexual drive (nothing permanent, of

> course). I am looking for herbs that will work for men and for women. Herbs

> similar to chasteberry, once called "monk's peppers", which is known to calm

> sexual desire in men. Any assistance will be well appreciated. Thanks.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Control sex herb

From: "Krian" <a@a.com>

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:33:10 -0000

--------

Try pine essential oil, in a very small dose however, as it is toxic. It

renders men impotent for a couple of hours. Its usually used by armoatherapy

massuses to stop mail clients 'rising to the occasion'.



Hope that helps



K.





"FAKE COP" <fakecop@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:C1SL7.127512$WW.7930180@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> Hello I live in the state of  La. and I am looking for all kinds of herbs

> that will decrease an overactive sexual drive (nothing permanent, of

> course). I am looking for herbs that will work for men and for women.

Herbs

> similar to chasteberry, once called "monk's peppers", which is known to

calm

> sexual desire in men. Any assistance will be well appreciated. Thanks.

>

>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: good source for bulk herbs and supplies?

From: "iam me" <budhaboy@email.com>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:16:31 GMT

--------

Hello, I was wondering if anyone here can recommend any good online sources

for bulk herbs.  I checked out glenbrookfarm.com, which has been recommended

on this ng more than once but the shipping charges seem rather prohibitive.

The prices are great for the herbs but the shipping works out to be almost

as much as the cost!  Is that just I have to deal with or are there other

sources of high quality herbs for less?



Also, I am interested in making lotions and salves for gifts this year and

was wondering if anyone could recommend a good source for inexpensive

containers, jars, tins, etc.  Or things like beeswax, cocoa butter, lanolin,

cosmetic grade white clay...  Any help would be appreciated!  thanks, Jeska



P.S. I did try to find this stuff on my own first, but I decided to tap the

wealth of knowledge and experience contained here as well.   I also looked

at the folklore herbFAQ but didn't find any references to actual websites

that sell bulk herbs, did I look in the wrong place or are you just not into

advertising?  ^_^









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: good source for bulk herbs and supplies?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:37:15 +0200

--------

"iam me" <budhaboy@email.com> wrote:



> Hello, I was wondering if anyone here can recommend any good online sources

> for bulk herbs.  I checked out glenbrookfarm.com, which has been recommended

> on this ng more than once but the shipping charges seem rather prohibitive.

> The prices are great for the herbs but the shipping works out to be almost

> as much as the cost!  Is that just I have to deal with or are there other

> sources of high quality herbs for less?



Frontier's is pretty good for the sheer amount of herbs they carry. There are

others, but you haven't said where you are.

The best is of course Blessed herbs, but I'm reluctant to tell that to too many,

because if they see a demand like Frontier's, their quality will just _have_ to

go down. You can't run a _large_ herb house and expect the quality of a smallish

one.



> Also, I am interested in making lotions and salves for gifts this year and

> was wondering if anyone could recommend a good source for inexpensive

> containers, jars, tins, etc.  Or things like beeswax, cocoa butter, lanolin,

> cosmetic grade white clay...  Any help would be appreciated!  thanks, Jeska



Your nearest pharmaceutical wholesaler will have salve jars in different sizes. 



You're better off buying all the rest elsewhere. For instance, beeswax is

easiest procured from a nearby beekeeper. Cocoa butter - I get that from a

natural food wholesaler, who also carries a rather large range of cold-pressed

organic oils. 



Lanolin, now - you know that that's responsible for lots of allergies? I

wouldn't use it. White clay, pass.



> P.S. I did try to find this stuff on my own first, but I decided to tap the

> wealth of knowledge and experience contained here as well.   I also looked

> at the folklore herbFAQ but didn't find any references to actual websites

> that sell bulk herbs, did I look in the wrong place or are you just not into

> advertising?  ^_^



I'm certainly not into advertising. Also, if I were to keep a list of quality

bulk providers, I'd have to keep it up-to-date, and that's FAR too much work. 



I have other things to do with my time. Like, I've added some of the last

missing herb-related bits from King's to my site; you'll also find the first

bits of the British Herbal Pharmacopoeia from 1911 there; and Michael Moore has

scanned more of Ellingwood, so that's online, too, now. 

Ellingwood will be on his site, too, once he's scanned it all, never fear.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: good source for bulk herbs and supplies?

From: "iam me" <budhaboy@email.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:59:15 GMT

--------

Thankyou!  I'll skip the lanolin.  Pharmaceutical supplies are a great

suggestion.  I was searching for "cosmetic" containers and was only finding

sites suitable for larger companies.  BTW, I am in the US,  So Cal.   -Jeska









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs and Predisone

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:35:01 GMT

--------

On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:09:22 -0500, "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

wrote:



>

>One herb that I use now when I get sinus infection is pau 'd arco (lapacho).

>Since I've found that, I've gotten rid of the chronic sinusitis that I had

>for years and haven't had to use any antibiotics at all.  Just be aware that

>it will detox you and should not be taken with antibiotics.  I've not had

>any trouble with it washing out the inhaled asthma meds though.  Also, the

>pills are pretty much worthless, IMO.  Get the bulk herb, make sure it's the

>red, shredded inner bark and fresh.  Boil it for 20 minutes - about a

>tablespoon per 8 oz of water.  I take 3 cups a day for 10 days for sinus

>infections.





The reason why Pau Darco helps with sinus infections is because most

of them are now being found to be caused by a fungus and not a

bacteria. Thus antibiotics being useless.  The Mayo Clinic did a study

on this and it was recently on a local news station as well.



Unfortunately most doctors haven't got the message yet and still keep

giving the antibiotics in cases where the primary suspect is in fact a

fungus, except they never check. They just assume it is a bacteria

because they have always been taught and assumed that.



Linda N





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Male genital yeast infection

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:21:20 GMT

--------

On 23 Oct 2001 20:03:40 GMT, jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie)

wrote:



>Traces in the gut are normal flora, that isn't overgrowth.  Vaginal yeast

>infections are not indicative of intestinal yeast infections.



Many times, in fact, yes they are.



Linda





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Olive Leaf Extract

From: "McCormick Richard A." <rich1338@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:33:22 -0800

--------

Hi,



I am looking for a site or some info on Olive Leaf Extract. Basically the

properties are most important to me. Michael Tierra probably has covered

this in his newer version of his herbal book (s) but I can't find anything

on line on this particular subject. I have a book on it by Dr. Morton Walker

(Olive Leaf Extract: Natures Antibiotic) published by Kensington Health

Books, but he doesn't go into that sort of information.



I am interested because I am an AIDS patient and my weight is an issue and

with the onset of the cold and flu season (I can't take Echinacea, it is not

recommended for people with HIV, it actually lowers the immunity in immune

compromised people for some reason I can't remember, Gaia Herbs did a

conclusive study that proved this years ago). I began to take Astragalus and

I love the herb but I started to loose water weight and I read up on it

(refresher) and found that it is a diuretic. So my next herb that I have had

luck with in the past is the Olive Leaf Extract....



I am trying to find out if it is considered a diuretic and what it's

Energetics are (sweet, sour ect...and warm, neutral or cold ect....)



Thank you



Richard : )~









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Olive Leaf Extract

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 26 Nov 2001 01:04:33 GMT

--------



> I am looking for a site or some info on Olive Leaf Extract.

> I am interested because I am an AIDS patient 



There has been some discussion of it on uk.people.support.cfs-me, and

I'd guess that what you're looking for in it may have some overlap

with what people with ME/CFS want it to do.  So you might try the CFS

newsgroups.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Hi-Vit-C Report, Colds, and Asthma (was: Herbs ... Predisone)

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:13:45 -0500

--------

On 2001-10-12 01:01:47 PST Michelle L. Orlando (graywolf@texas.net) wrote:

> I am an asthmatic and have a cold that has started my being

> short of breath and had to go to my doctor. I have been taking

> while sick my usual herbs  [...] > Michelle



On 2001-10-13 02:23:56 PST Thomas Mueller (tmueller@bluegrass.net) wrote:

> There has recently been a thread in this newsgroup, cross-

> posted to several other newsgroups, on the merits of vitamin C

> and echinacea for colds.



On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:09:22 -0500, "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com wrote:

> One herb that I use now when I get sinus infection is pau 'd

> arco (lapacho). Since I've found that, I've gotten rid of the

> chronic sinusitis that I had for years and haven't had to use

> any antibiotics at all. [...]



On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:35:01 GMT Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> The reason why Pau Darco helps with sinus infections is because

> most of them are now being found to be caused by a fungus and

> not a bacteria. Thus antibiotics being useless.  The Mayo Clinic

> did a study on this and it was recently on a local news station

> as well.

> Unfortunately most doctors haven't got the message yet and

> still keep giving the antibiotics in cases where the primary

> suspect is in fact a fungus, except they never check. They just

> assume it is a bacteria because they have always been taught and

> assumed that. > Linda N



Since it can be difficult for an asthmatic (or migraneur like me) to

randomly try new herbs due to triggering attacks, asthmatics may be good

candidates to try high-dose vitamin C therapy to cure colds or sinusitis.



I was able to use high-dose C (20 grams daily) to cure a cold this fall,

after failing with smaller doses (under 5 grams daily) for the last

decade. To the best of my current understanding, the type of infection,

virus, bacteria, or fungus should not matter, vit C should be somewhat to

very effective in all infection cases (maybe protozoan too). Also, I've

heard of no reason that one cannot mix a favorite herb with the high-dose

vit C cure. Remember that the high-dose C response to infection is natural

in all mammals, except primates, guinea pigs, and fruit bats who have lost

the vit C genes to do this.



My cure occurred late in the cold, but I was definitely still sick. I took

the 20 grams (gag-sour handful of tablets!) all at once. Not recommended

unless you have a type 'A' personality   :)   IIRC, Pauling says to take 1

or 2 grams per hour. My symptoms disappeared for the rest of that day. The

next day they were back, and disappeared with another handful of tablets.

And the cold was over-- wow. I can 'hardly wait' to try it early in a

cold. But it may be next spring or fall before I can try (since I can

prevent some cold onsets with daily vits-mins and still others with (1 to

max of 3, once per hour) 12.5mcg doses of Cytomel brand thyronine (T3)

thyroid hormone. I mention the T3 cold-onset-cure because it has worked

for three other cool-conformation people; its theoretical basis is immune

enzyme induction.)



The right vit C dose is chosen by bowel tolerance, which Dr. Cartcart, MD

discovered and Dr. Linus Pauling, PhD popularized. Read Dr. Cathcart's

description here:

http://www.mall-net.com/cathcart/titrate.html

"Vitamin C, Titrating to Tolerance"

Dr. Robert F. Cathcart, M.D., 1994



The following testimonial appeared in the recent "Vit C useless for

colds?" thread:



> "beni kafe" <benik@elisra.com> wrote ...

> > Every thing Pauling and Dr. Cathcart wrote is correct and works

> > in almost 100% of the time.I take 13 grams a day and do not get

> > colds most of the time. When I do have a virus, as it happened

> > last week, i took 30-40 grams a day and passed is only in one

> > rough day and  the rest of the days it was just sore throat and

> > runny nose , but i didn't miss even one day of work and usually

> > felt reasonably well. and this works the same for many of my

> > friends. So, all these "researches" are pure bullshit, because

> > one have to reach bowl tolerance in order to see the dramatic

> > results of vitamin C, and this vary from person to person.



Recently, testing high-dose C got cheaper. I was able to buy my first

bottle of Now brand calcium ascorbate of 8 oz. (227 grams) for under $10

USD. Each teaspoon is about 5 grams. Not sick (except my usual

fibro-fatigue stuff), I took 10 grams daily to start. After about a week,

my 'C deficit' began to fill up and looser B.T. told me to reduce the

dose. I reduced by 2.5 grams (1/2 tsp.) per day and today I am down to 5

grams. 



Calcium ascorbate powder is somewhat bitter, and without care it can be

inhaled. To avoid both of these problems, I have been pouring half a

swallow of low-fat buttermilk in my mouth. Holding it there keeps the back

of my throat closed, avoiding powder inhalation. Then I pour the

pre-measured powder in my mouth, close it, let the buttermilk soak up the

powder, and swallow. The sourness of the buttermilk helps counteract the

bitter powder. If one does not like buttermilk, other thick

highly-flavored liquids should work also. Alternatively, one can purchase

1 gram caplets of calcium ascorbate, but I think that it's about $15 USD

per 100 grams. Now brand also sells a 4 oz. calcium ascorbate, and an 8

oz. magnesium ascorbate. I don't recommend the magnesium ascorbate because

it could theoretically interfere with the B.T. indication. Ideally, the

calcium and magnesium versions should be mixed in a Ca-Mg ratio of 2:1,

and I hope Now will eventually create that product. 



In combination with 1 gram of daily niacin, my cholesterol and

triglycerides blood tests dropped into the normal range last week. That's

noteworthy because my triglycerides have been stuck in the modestly high

range for years. After the tests, I dropped the niacin back to 750 mg (3/4

gram), because the high C was markedly increasing the flushing effect, and

one should not take more niacin than needed because of liver concerns

(possibly in people who don't take balanced mega-vitamins-minerals).



What I really want to know, is whether high-dose C (perhaps in the 5-10

gram daily B.T. range, not during a cold) will suppress or dramatically

reduce the need for asthma meds? If so, it could be a life-extender for

many asthmatics.



Good luck Michelle & Loki & Thomas,

Sean

(Not A Doc, And I May Be Wrong   :)

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbs and Diabetes cures

From: blueberry@dslextreme.com

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:16:54 -0800

--------

What herbs (natural) are used in the treatment and cures of diabetics.

Need up to date information.

Thanks,

Penny









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs and Diabetes cures

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:26:35 -0600

--------

<blueberry@dslextreme.com> wrote



> What herbs (natural) are used in the treatment and cures of diabetics.

> Need up to date information.



None.  If a person is a Type I then they must take insulin shots or die.

It's pretty simple.



If a person is a Type 2 then they must watch what they eat and exercise.

Otherwise, they lose body parts to amputations, go blind and die.



It's pretty simple either way.



Now, if you are asking what herbs/oils might help control some of the

nasties that come with diabetes, I use tea tree oil in all my liquid soaps

to control/prevent fungal infections, particularly on the feet.  It also is

an antibacterial/antiviral and helps control skin infections, again mostly

on the feet.



I use a mixture of half Vaseline/half baby oil (or not organic but the stuff

that made it once was) on my feet at night to counteract dry skin.  I am

looking for something to get rid of the calluses on the bottoms of my feet

and to heal cracks in them but haven't hit on the right formula yet.



Othewise, not much helps.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs and Diabetes cures

From: Michelle Carlson <carls197@pilot.msu.edu>

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:50:25 -0500

--------

Loki,

Have you tried using a pumice stone on your feet right when you get out of the

shower? It's really worked for me. Takes a little time to see the calluses go

down, especially if they're big, but it really does help. After that, oil up

your feet and put some cotton socks on.



Hope this helps! You may have tried all of this already. :)

Michelle



loki wrote:



> <blueberry@dslextreme.com> wrote

>

> > What herbs (natural) are used in the treatment and cures of diabetics.

> > Need up to date information.

>

> None.  If a person is a Type I then they must take insulin shots or die.

> It's pretty simple.

>

> If a person is a Type 2 then they must watch what they eat and exercise.

> Otherwise, they lose body parts to amputations, go blind and die.

>

> It's pretty simple either way.

>

> Now, if you are asking what herbs/oils might help control some of the

> nasties that come with diabetes, I use tea tree oil in all my liquid soaps

> to control/prevent fungal infections, particularly on the feet.  It also is

> an antibacterial/antiviral and helps control skin infections, again mostly

> on the feet.

>

> I use a mixture of half Vaseline/half baby oil (or not organic but the stuff

> that made it once was) on my feet at night to counteract dry skin.  I am

> looking for something to get rid of the calluses on the bottoms of my feet

> and to heal cracks in them but haven't hit on the right formula yet.

>

> Othewise, not much helps.

>

> Loki







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs and Diabetes cures

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:11:18 -0600

--------

"Michelle Carlson" <carls197@pilot.msu.edu> wrote



> Loki,

> Have you tried using a pumice stone on your feet right when you get out of

the

> shower? It's really worked for me. Takes a little time to see the calluses

go

> down, especially if they're big, but it really does help. After that, oil

up

> your feet and put some cotton socks on.

>

> Hope this helps! You may have tried all of this already. :)



I have tried it.  I've found that an artificial pumice stone works best and

I use it daily.  It actually works better if I put some cuticle remover on

it first.  Still, it's not enough...



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs and Diabetes cures

From: derwyn <yn_erbyn@y_bo.m>

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:36:13 +1300

--------

Funnily enough blueberry leaf tea (vaccinium) is supposed to be good.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbs to cure diabetes

From: blueberry@dslextreme.com

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:31:04 -0800

--------

What herbs have been used to cure diabetics and their problems.

Thanks







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to cure diabetes

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:22:28 -0600

--------

<blueberry@dslextreme.com> wrote



> What herbs have been used to cure diabetics and their problems.

> Thanks



Um, none?



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to cure diabetes

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:02:24 +0200

--------

blueberry@dslextreme.com wrote:



> What herbs have been used to cure diabetics and their problems.



There are two main types of diabetes: 



- your body doesn't make (enough) insulin. That's IDDM, or insulin-dependent

  diabetes mellitus; unless you get your shots, regular as clockwork, you're

  pretty much dead.

- you've been doing too much food for so long that your fat cells say "oh,

  _more_ insulin to shoo in _more_ fat into these here tissues? Sheesh, I can't

  take _any_ more of that. Let's just ignore it, it's just like Jehovah's

  witnesses, they'll go away eventually."

  You make insulin okay, but the cells that insulin is aimed for simply don't

  react to it anymore, so you make _more_ insulin. And more, and more, and more.

  Change your diet. And exercise.



Herbs? Some of them can help, in both cases, but none will cure. 



If you elmininate sugars, excess carbos, and so on, you can cure the second one

yourself. You have to keep your diet forever after, though. In order to be able

to resist the sugars you should help your liver first.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to cure diabetes

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:55:01 -0600

--------

"Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:u8840ugp937n1vnvsv9u5ljrn7m0mpa5r8@4ax.com...

> blueberry@dslextreme.com wrote:

>

> > What herbs have been used to cure diabetics and their problems.

>

> There are two main types of diabetes:

>

> - your body doesn't make (enough) insulin. That's IDDM, or

insulin-dependent

>   diabetes mellitus; unless you get your shots, regular as clockwork,

you're

>   pretty much dead.

> - you've been doing too much food for so long that your fat cells say "oh,

>   _more_ insulin to shoo in _more_ fat into these here tissues? Sheesh, I

can't

>   take _any_ more of that. Let's just ignore it, it's just like Jehovah's

>   witnesses, they'll go away eventually."

>   You make insulin okay, but the cells that insulin is aimed for simply

don't

>   react to it anymore, so you make _more_ insulin. And more, and more, and

more.

>   Change your diet. And exercise.

>

> Herbs? Some of them can help, in both cases, but none will cure.

>

> If you elmininate sugars, excess carbos, and so on, you can cure the

second one

> yourself. You have to keep your diet forever after, though. In order to be

able

> to resist the sugars you should help your liver first.



I have found that what my friend calls "white food" should be avoided.  I

seem to metabolize white flour, white rice, potatoes and such things pretty

much the way I metabolize sugar.  It's awful.  If I stick to whole grains

and veggies as a source of carbs then I'm fine.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to cure diabetes

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 05:02:15 -0700

--------

blueberry@dslextreme.com wrote:



>What herbs have been used to cure diabetics and their problems.



  None.  For TypeII diebetes, there are many food stufs that can

help, but nothing replaces insulin shots for the TypeI kind.  











Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbs to cure diabetes

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:52:46 -0500

--------

(roku<blueberry@dslextreme.com> wrote in message 

news:3C019B58.41E7778D@dslextreme.com...

> What herbs have been used to cure diabetics and 

> their problems. > Thanks



Cure is too strong a term, but better control than the doc alone can give

one does seem to be possible. I am personally acquainted with someone who

halted diabetic retinopathy with mega-vitamin-E. Linus Pauling discusses

both mega-E and mega-C for this purpose in _"How to Feel Better and Live

Longer_, (Freeman, 1986). 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380702894/qid=1006850609/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_14_1/002-0653150-6728021



Hot tubbing, IIRC, can reduce excess blood sugar by about 15%. 



Below is the Japanese physician Kuwaki's tree chart for TCM/CHM herbal

formula treatment according to one's personal conformation. With some

effort, these formulas can be found for sale on the internet as tea

granules, prepared similarly to instant coffee.



Sean



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Chinese Herbal Therapy : A Guide to Its Principles and Practice

       by Takahide Kuwaki M.D., (Oriental Healing Arts Institute, 1990)

                        -use monospace display font-



Kuwaki, p.76: "[start with diet, exercise, insulin if needed] ... if an

appropriate Chinese herbal therapy is followed in addition, many of the

subjective symptoms will resolve."



                             Chart 13: Diabetes



                                 - Obesity ------------ Siler and

                                |                       Platycodone

                 - Strong ------|                       Formula              

                |  conformation |                                            

                |  (energetic)   - Thoracostal -------- Major Bupleurum      

                |                  (chest-rib distress) combination (plus    

                |                                       Rehmannia            

 - Fever -------|                                                            

| conformation  |                - Thoracostal -------- Minor Bupleurum      

| (active,      |               |  (chest-rib distress) Combination (plus    

| stimulating,  |               |                       Rehmania)            

| inflammatory) |               |                                            

|               |               |- Extreme thirst ----- Ginseng and Gypsum   

|                - Weak --------|                       Combination          

|                  conformation |                                            

|                  (fatigued)   |- Lassitude in ------- Rehmannia Six        

|                               |  the lower limbs      Formula              

|                               |                                            

|                                - Weak physique ------ Ophiopogon           

|                                                       Combination          

|                                                                            

|                      - In general ------------------- Rehmannia Eight

|                     |                                 Formula

 - Chill -------------|                                 (plus Ginseng)  

   conformation       |                                                      

   (atrophic,          - Gastointestinal symptoms ----- Four Major Herb      

   retreating, atonic)                                  Combination          



Thoracostal (chest-rib) distress: feeling of heaviness and pressure at the

subcostal (below rib) region, particularly on the right side. See the book 

text for a fuller explanation of the chart. 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0941942309/qid=996830216/sr=1-4/ref=sc_b_4/103-9404960-6818225



                                 Formulary 

       [English name:, (Pinyin name), (Japanese name), ingredients]



Siler and Platycodone Formula: (fangfeng tongsheng san) (boju tusyo san)

rhubarb, mirabilitum, licorice, ma-huang, gypsum, raw ginger,

actractylodes, tang-kuei, cnidium, peony, mentha, forsythia, schizonepeta,

siler, scute, gardenia, talc, platycodon. 



Major Bupleurum combination (add Rehmannia): (da chaihu tang) (dai saiko

to) bupleurum, scute, pinellia, raw ginger, jujube, chih-shih, peony,

rhubarb



Minor Bupleurum Combination (add Rehmania): (xiao chaihu tang) (syo saiko

to) bupleurum, scute, pinellia, raw ginger, jujube, ginseng, licorice



Ginseng and Gypsum Combination: (baihu jia renshen tang) (byakko ka ninzin

to) anemarrhena, Oryza, licorice, gypsum, ginseng



Rehmannia Six Formula: (liuwei dehuang wan) (rokumi gan)

dried rhemannia, dioscorea, cornus, hoelen, alisma, moutan

(aka Six Flavor Kidney Qi Pill)



Ophiopogon Combination: (maimendong tang) (bakumondo to)

ophiopogon, pinellia, ginseng, jujube, Orzya, licorice



Rehmannia Eight Formula (add Ginseng): (bawei dehuang wan) (hatimi jio

gan) dried rhemannia, dioscorea, cornus, hoelen, alisma, moutan, plus a

herb pair which makes the whole formula known as follows:

(aka Cinnamon and (cooked) Aconite Kidney Qi Pill) 

or (aka Achyranthes and Plantago Kidney Qi Pill) 

or (aka Lycium and Chysanthemum Kidney Qi Pill)



Four Major Herb Combination: (sijunzi tang) (sikunsi to)

ginseng, atractylodes, hoelen, licorice, raw ginger, jujube

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: 5-HTP question

From: BOREDnTEXAS@webtv.net

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:29:21 -0600 (CST)

--------

has anyone taken or know of any info on 5-HTP....it was recomended to

me....thanks and thanks for everyone's other responses from a previous

post!!!!!!







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: 5-HTP question

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:07:36 -0500

--------

<BOREDnTEXAS@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:23327-3C01C521-406@storefull-237.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

> has anyone taken or know of any info on 5-HTP....it was

> recomended to me....thanks and thanks for everyone's other

> responses from a previous post!!!!!!



"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011126051123.09790.00001520@mb-fz.aol.com...

> You didn't give your life history so how can you expect 

> an answer? > Tony



Maybe TonyZ2001's significant other departed recently, so we wish him good

luck in finding another so he won't have to live under a bridge for long.

:)



But Tony has a point. For what purpose was the 5-HTP recommended?



I've taken a half bottle of 5-HTP natural source. It gave me a headache

once, probably due to triggering a migraine by adjusting serotonin levels.

If you don't have migraine that probably won't happen.



5-HTP has a couple of problems: 



(1) Synthetic 5-HTP was 'Peak X' contaminated a few years ago, so make

sure your bottle says that it's a natural extract of Griffonia

simplicifolia.

(2) It reportedly releases body serotonin instead of brain serotonin.

Excess body serotonin can cause proliferative myocytis of the heart mitral

valve.



I suggest that you ask this question again in sci.life-extension, though

a.f.h may be of further help if you tell us why you want to use 5-HTP.



Sean

---











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Herbal Contraception?

From: "Crystalynne Carson Skywater" <no1@byteme.com>

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:35:13 -0700

--------

My significant other and I are interested in finding some herbs that will

help us *not* conceieve.

I'm looking for a 'his' and a 'hers' solution. My research has turned up

only female contraceptives and it sounds like wild carrot seed (Queen Anne's

Lace) is the most effective for women, preventing implantation [of a zygote]

into the uterine lining. Black cohosh showed up in my cybertravels, but I'm

not certain what the action of this herb is in terms of preventing

pregnancy. Any recommendations? Anyone have success using herbs as

contraception?? What about something for *him*?



Thanks in advance,



Crystalynne Carson Skywater









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Contraception?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:02:27 +0200

--------

"Crystalynne Carson Skywater" <no1@byteme.com> wrote:



> My significant other and I are interested in finding some herbs that will

> help us *not* conceieve.

> I'm looking for a 'his' and a 'hers' solution. My research has turned up

> only female contraceptives and it sounds like wild carrot seed (Queen Anne's

> Lace) is the most effective for women, preventing implantation [of a zygote]

> into the uterine lining. Black cohosh showed up in my cybertravels, but I'm

> not certain what the action of this herb is in terms of preventing

> pregnancy. Any recommendations? Anyone have success using herbs as

> contraception?? What about something for *him*?



Forget it. Do barrier ones (condoms and the like), get him or her snipped, or

use abstinence.



Any others will just lead to you being called "Mommy" one of these days.



Oh, of course, there's hormonal ones, like the pill and such. They play havoc

with your hormones. Avoid them. REALLY avoid them. You'll thank me in ten years

or so, when your hormonal system is all in working order, while all around you

ladies have troubles, both reproductive and thyroidal.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Contraception?

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:48:28 -0500

--------

"Henriette Kress" <hetta@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message

news:j9840uosj7fv2962q0en7jod6er0ttq9i7@4ax.com...

> > My significant other and I are interested in finding some herbs

> > that will help us *not* conceieve.[...] Any recommendations?

> > Anyone have success using herbs as contraception?? What about

> > something for *him*?

> 

> Forget it. Do barrier ones (condoms and the like), get him or

> her snipped, or use abstinence. Any others will just lead to you

> being called "Mommy" one of these days Oh, of course, there's

> hormonal ones, like the pill and such. They play havoc with your

> hormones. Avoid them. REALLY avoid them. You'll thank me in ten

> years or so, when your hormonal system is all in working order,

> while all around you ladies have troubles, both reproductive and

> thyroidal. > Henriette



Agreed. I've known "the pill" lead to a lot of trouble, including no sex

for months! I recommend VCFs (Vaginal Contraceptive Film), as a good but

slightly less effective alternative to barriers. 



Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Contraception?

From: "Crystalynne Carson Skywater" <no1@byteme.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:46:13 -0700

--------

> Oh, of course, there's hormonal ones, like the pill and such. They play

havoc

> with your hormones. Avoid them. REALLY avoid them. You'll thank me in ten

years

> or so, when your hormonal system is all in working order, while all around

you

> ladies have troubles, both reproductive and thyroidal.



I'm afraid I won't be thanking anyone but myself for a decision (already

made, long ago--you're not talking to a clueless teenager here) not to go

for hormonal methods of contraception. Unfortunately, I don't find anything

you've said in response to my original post to be at all helpful, though I

appreciate your attempts to play guidance councelor.



Crystalynne Carson Skywater









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Contraception?

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:23:03 -0600

--------

"Crystalynne Carson Skywater" <no1@byteme.com> wrote



> I'm afraid I won't be thanking anyone but myself for a decision (already

> made, long ago--you're not talking to a clueless teenager here) not to go

> for hormonal methods of contraception. Unfortunately, I don't find

anything

> you've said in response to my original post to be at all helpful, though I

> appreciate your attempts to play guidance councelor.



You were told the truth, that herbal contraceptives result in lot's of

pregnancies and some deformed infants.  If you don't much care whether or

not you get pregnant, it's still a bad choice.



Loki









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Herbal Contraception?

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:10:31 -0700

--------

"Crystalynne Carson Skywater" <no1@byteme.com> wrote:



>I'm afraid I won't be thanking anyone but myself for a decision (already

>made, long ago--you're not talking to a clueless teenager here) not to go

>for hormonal methods of contraception. Unfortunately, I don't find anything

>you've said in response to my original post to be at all helpful, though I

>appreciate your attempts to play guidance councelor.



Listen to the advice ... Diaphragms and condoms are the

non-hormonal way to go.  



Any herb that could prevent conception would be messing with your

endocrine system just as much as any prescription contraceptive

does.  Or did you think that because it's "natural" it will

somehow manage to shut down the ovaries without changing a thing?













Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: poisoned

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 05:03:53 -0700

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:





>............................................................................

>....................Stinging nettles (Bull nettles, nettle spurge, etc.) Do

>not induce vomiting; rinse mouth and any other areas which came in contact

>with the acid; give 1-2 tablespoons of cooking or mineral oil. Note: may

>exhibit slow and irregular pulse.



For any pet or small child foolish enough to munch on the raw

leaves, this is good advice.  





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: poisoned

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 26 Nov 2001 23:04:05 GMT

--------



> James Lumpkin herbal troll

> The perfume business must be very bad/slow for him



That idiot works in that line of business?



So did my uncle.  He died of prostate cancer at a relatively young age.

He was convinced it was the chemicals he'd worked with most of his life

that caused it.



There can't be many products with so many deadly hazards that get on the

market with so little safety testing as perfumes.  I wonder how many

people die of anaphylaxis every year from perfume-induced flower allergy?



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: poisoned

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:58:11 -0600

--------

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:29:22 +0100, "maison.mousse"

<maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



>Reprinted with permission!

>

>POISONED!

>John Cargill, MA, MBA, MS and Susan Thorpe-Vargas, M.S, Ph.D.

>

>.............It is extremely important to get these two protocols correct.

>For poisoning with acids, alkalis, petroleum distillates and stinging

>nettles, DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. These substances can cause great damage

>coming out, especially if aspirated. In both protocols, treatment for shock

>and other supportive therapy such as CPR, IV fluids, oxygen, etc., may be

>required. In any case, standard first aid procedures of checking the airway,

>breathing and circulation should be part of the initial evaluation. Note:

>Some poisons have antidotes, others have none. The sooner the poison is

>removed or absorbed or moved through the system, the less its effects will

>be.

>............................................................................

>....................Stinging nettles (Bull nettles, nettle spurge, etc.) Do

>not induce vomiting; rinse mouth and any other areas which came in contact

>with the acid; give 1-2 tablespoons of cooking or mineral oil. Note: may

>exhibit slow and irregular pulse.





Good lord, man, you've used one obviously very toxic (sometimes

deadly) poison with extreme emergency room protocols for treatment and

you're comparing it to something where you might have to rinse out the

kid's mouth with water and give it a bit of cooking oil at home?  And

it's the protocol for raw nettles.  Geeze.  That's what's a good thing

to do for your skin on any part of your body if you contact it (and it

bothers you much.  Has never bothered me much).   Has nothing to do

with herbal usage.  And the best you can come up with for harm is that

the ingester may have a slow or irregular pulse?  What, btw, since

you're so scientific, is the dose required to cause pulse problems?

Grams per kilo or ounces per pound will do.  

-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: poison plants ect

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 05:07:04 -0700

--------

"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote:



And your point is?  Nobody has ever said 



BTW, you forgot Lily of the Valley, which has REALLY toxic parts,

and Nutmeg, which can cause hallucinations in large quantities.  



  









Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: poison plants ect

From: herblady@newsguy.com (Rasta Poodle)

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:37:37 GMT

--------

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:55:08 +0100, "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

wrote:



>arrowhead vine  majesty  boston ivy

>neththytis ivy  colodium  pathos

>emerald duke  red princess  heart leaf (philodendron)

>split leaf (philodendron)  saddle leaf (philodendron)  marble queen



Now James Lumpkins is trolling the herbal group with non-herbal plants. Does

his perfume company who pays him to spam many newsgroups know he's delibertly

antagonizing people with trolling behavior?



         Anya  {{{*_*}}}

Visit my "Aromatherapy Debunked and Defended" site

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

Bob Marley and the Wailers album "Exodus"

named "Album of the Century" by Time magazine







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: poison plants ect

From: cyli@tiny.net.invalid

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:00:10 -0600

--------

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:37:37 GMT, herblady@newsguy.com (Rasta Poodle)

wrote:



>On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:55:08 +0100, "maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr>

>wrote:

>

>>arrowhead vine  majesty  boston ivy

>>neththytis ivy  colodium  pathos

>>emerald duke  red princess  heart leaf (philodendron)

>>split leaf (philodendron)  saddle leaf (philodendron)  marble queen

>

>Now James Lumpkins is trolling the herbal group with non-herbal plants. Does

>his perfume company who pays him to spam many newsgroups know he's delibertly

>antagonizing people with trolling behavior?

>

>         Anya  {{{*_*}}}

>Visit my "Aromatherapy Debunked and Defended" site

>http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

>Bob Marley and the Wailers album "Exodus"

>named "Album of the Century" by Time magazine



It may be his own company. Considering what his behaviour here

exhibits about him, he may have done the site himself, too.  Someone

with too much ego and too little knowledge did it, anyway.



-- 

rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless



remove invalid or hit reply to email.

Though I'm very slow to respond.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Seek source salvia root

From: roseann1120@yahoo.com (roseann)

Date: 26 Nov 2001 05:45:28 -0800

--------

Can anyone suggest source to order salvia root (salvia officinalis).

The leaves are readily available, however I can't find root. I have

tried Penn Herb, Monterey Bay.Thanks. roseann.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Elderberry for CFS

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:50:12 -0000

--------

Interesting article....



AME (myalgic encephalomyelitis), or chronic fatigue syndrome, affects

substantially more women (85%) than men, and is more likely to affect people

who have a history of allergies and overachievers who set high standards for

themselves.



In 40% of cases, there is also a proven link between chronic fatigue and an

infection with the Epstein-Barr virus (EBV). And that link could be even

more pertinent because, depending on the tests being used, a significant

proportion of individuals - up to 15% - who have had an EBV infection will

still test negative for it. As a member of the herpes family of viruses, EBV

has the ability to remain dormant in the body long after the primary

infection has passed. It "hides" in the salivary glands and the B cells of

the immune system, where, unless something goes wrong, it can usually be

kept in check by the other immune-system cells. The herb that acts

specifically against EBV is the humble hedgerow plant the elderberry, sales

of which have rocketed in America in recent years. The active ingredients

inhibit or block the virus's replication mechanism. It is also a potent

immune tonic.



(from the Sunday Times, UK)















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Elderberry for CFS

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:46:53 GMT

--------

Excerpt from "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>:



> The herb that acts

  specifically against EBV is the humble hedgerow plant the elderberry, sales

  of which have rocketed in America in recent years. The active ingredients

  inhibit or block the virus's replication mechanism. It is also a potent

  immune tonic.



> (from the Sunday Times, UK)



What part of the elderberry plant is effective against EBV?  Flowers, berries

or other?







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Elderberry for CFS

From: "bryher" <bryher_m@yahoo.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:31:29 -0000

--------



I'm not sure... the article added at the bottom  ...."Solgar makes a

supplement that combines a standardised elderberry extract (150mg) with the

equivalent dosage of the powdered raw herb "...  so I guess whatever's in

that particular one.





"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

news:9u2fat$5mnpe$4@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

>

> What part of the elderberry plant is effective against EBV?  Flowers,

berries

> or other?

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: What are Olives good for ???

From: taschlauch <taschlauch@lockhavenonline.xxx>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:32:27 -0800

--------

I just fund out I like olives , they teaste great. So I was wondering

what they was good for , and what they are bad for.



Thanks !! taschlauch







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: What are Olives good for ???

From: derwyn <yn_erbyn@y_bo.m>

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:56:55 +1300

--------

Just about everything. The oil is unsaturated and the leaves are a tonic

tea.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.aromatherapy,alt.folklore.aromatherapy,alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.aromatherapy,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: Essential Oil, Herbal "Must-Have" Kit?

From: "K Shelton" <karen@altnature.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:36:03 -0600

--------



If I could only have one it would be lavender. My must have list is Ylang

Ylang, Lavender and Sandalwood, but that is because I like them, and I hate

unnatural fragrances.  I have found that Ylang Ylang and sandalwood mixed up

with some home made vanilla extract and vodka makes a great fragrance.



Chamomile oil is very expensive but goes farther than any other oil I have

used. You will not need near as much, so its really a good deal. Melissa (

lemon balm) EO is good for cold sores. Sassafras is said to be an insect

repellant.

I love to see new people learning about herbs.



--

Karen Shelton

Alternative Nature Herbal and Online Photo Gallery

Amazing Jewelweed Soap for Poison Ivy

http://altnature.com







"Rick C. Davies" <rickd@cyber-wizard.com> wrote in message

news:td1srot12fpu68@corp.supernews.com...

> Knowing that I will receive many responses to this question, I am still

> going to pose it to the newsgroup(s).  Are there any recommendations for

> creating a "starter kit" for someone just getting into exploring oils and

> herbs?  I know there are several different oils and herbs, but are there

> specifically some that every person should have that can help address an

> assortment of problems and maladies?

>

> Looking forward to responses,

> --Rick

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Illinois Poison Center

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:56:20 -0600

--------

They'll just be thrilled to be getting calls from other states not to

mention the UK and Australia.  This is an international group.  You really

should know what you are asking for when you post here...



Loki



"maison.mousse" <maison.mousse@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message

news:9ttjao$5h4$1@wanadoo.fr...

> Always call the Illinois Poison Center at 1-800-942-5969 if a plant from

> this list is eaten in any amount.

> Arrow-Head Vine  Ink Berry  Poison Ivy

> Black-Eyed Susan  Jack-in-the-Pulpit  Poke Weed

> Catnip  May Apple  Queen Anne's Lace

> Celandine  Memory Root  Shamrock

> Corn Cockle  Mushrooms  Skunk Cabbage

> Dutchman's Breeches Nephthysis  Squirrel Corn

> Flax  Oxeye Daisy  Stinging Nettle

> Foxtail   Virginia Creeper

> If you have a plant that is not included on any of these lists, contact

the

> Illinois Poison Center to find out if the plant is safe. Remember: all

> plants can be a choking hazard.

> For more information, call the Illinois Poison Center at 1-800-942-5969.

>

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Hi-Vit-C Report, Colds, and Asthma

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: 27 Nov 2001 10:25:19 GMT

--------

from Sean/Foxfire:



>Since it can be difficult for an asthmatic (or migraneur like me) to

>randomly try new herbs due to triggering attacks, asthmatics may be good

>candidates to try high-dose vitamin C therapy to cure colds or sinusitis.



I don't see anything wrong with an asthmatic trying various herbs, but hopefully

the selection will not be random.  I still have not ventured to try lycium

berries or ashwagandha root (family Solanaceae) because of delayed asthmatic

reaction I get from eating fruits and vegetables in that family: potatoes,

eggplant, peppers (Capsicum) and tomatoes.  I don't know if lycium berries and

ashwagandha root contain solanine or solanine-related alkaloids.



Vitamin C and pantothenic acid had no effect on my asthma and food-allergy

symptoms when I took these vitamins in summer 1996.







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: Hi-Vit-C Report, Colds, and Asthma

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:55:18 -0500

--------

"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote in message

news:9tvpmf$57nfq$1@ID-49635.news.dfncis.de...

> Foxfire wrote:

> > Since it can be difficult for an asthmatic (or migraneur like

> > me) to randomly try new herbs due to triggering attacks,[...]

>

> I don't see anything wrong with an asthmatic trying various

> herbs, but hopefully the selection will not be random.  I still

> have not ventured to try lycium berries or ashwagandha root

> (family Solanaceae) because of delayed asthmatic reaction I get

> from eating fruits and vegetables in that family:



Migraine doesn't stop me from experimenting with herbs but it way slows

the process. I'm careful with the timing of herbs that are likely to be

the most help in the long term for low-hormone fibromyalgia syndrome. The

reason for the caution seems to be that sharp falls in some hormone levels

trigger migraine. This includes the delayed reaction 'bounce' following a

sharp hormone increase from some herbs. 



I experiment with hormone-adjusting herbs when I'm not doing some

important project and can afford to have and treat a 12+ hour headache. I

was frustrated early this year when low-cost pharma ergotamine-caffeine

tablets disappeared from the local market. At the time I lacked any other

treatment for status migraine, so I had to cease a major licorice tea

experiment. For the next herb experiment cycle, I recently acquired

pharma hydrocortisone (synthesized natural cortisol) backed up by

prednisone (semi-synthetic), should status migraine strike.



> Vitamin C and pantothenic acid had no effect on my asthma and 

> food-allergy symptoms when I took these vitamins in summer 1996.



I too never got a gram or three of pantothenic acid to work for upper

respiratory allergy. However, after noting the way that B.T. vit C

potentiated the niacin flush last week, maybe I should revisit the

high-dose pantothenic treatment and add B.T. vit C next sneeze season.



But how much vit C did you take? 



Dr. Cathcart, Pauling, another poster I quoted and his friends, and now

myself (after 10 years of using too little to cure colds) have determined

to our own satisfaction that to cure the diseases that vit C will cure, a

90%+ bowel tolerance dose is -absolutely- necessary.



Good luck,

Sean

---









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: I want to import some herbs

From: not@home.net

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:42:18 GMT

--------

I have a friend in China who grows his own herbs for resale, who,

what, where, would I go see to import his herbal remedies/medicine?

TIA

Red Penoy





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: I want to import some herbs

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:59:54 -0700

--------

not@home.net wrote:



>I have a friend in China who grows his own herbs for resale, who,

>what, where, would I go see to import his herbal remedies/medicine?



He needs to get export permits from China, and you need to get

import permits from the USA: try the FDA and the US Customs

Bureau for starters. 





Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.support.ibs,alt.support.crohns-colitis,alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Best remedies for treating IBS and Crohns

From: Scout <scout2001@mailandnews.com>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:33:01 -0500

--------

I am looking for a summary of thins that help IBS and Crohns patients

to control their diarrhea, constipation, and gas. 



Where would be the best place to find suggestions like:

Imodium, PepermintOil, aloe, Caltrate, etc.... all in one consolidated

place for recommending items for treatment.



Since my PDA won't check newsgroups, can you post a copy to

scout2001@mailandnew.com?   Thank you!







==========

Newsgroups: alt.support.ibs,alt.support.crohns-colitis,alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: Best remedies for treating IBS and Crohns

From: "Bill McArthur" <wmcarthur@health-ways.com>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:41:25 -0500

--------

I would be interested in replies as I have two friends who suffer with IBS

and Crohns.



--

Regards,



Bill McArthur

wmcarthur@www.health-ways.com

"Scout" <scout2001@mailandnews.com> wrote in message

news:dn0a0u0v306vo2fnpgkn8inbri743v1if5@4ax.com...

> I am looking for a summary of thins that help IBS and Crohns patients

> to control their diarrhea, constipation, and gas.

>

> Where would be the best place to find suggestions like:

> Imodium, PepermintOil, aloe, Caltrate, etc.... all in one consolidated

> place for recommending items for treatment.

>

> Since my PDA won't check newsgroups, can you post a copy to

> scout2001@mailandnew.com?   Thank you!

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.support.ibs,alt.support.crohns-colitis,alt.folklore.herbs,own.health.herbs

Subject: Re: Best remedies for treating IBS and Crohns

From: Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:52:50 -0500

--------

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Scout <scout2001@mailandnews.com> wrote:



>I am looking for a summary of thins that help IBS and Crohns patients

>to control their diarrhea, constipation, and gas. 



Best thing is to find out what foods are troublesome, and avoid them. The

follow from a woman in Canada:



The journal article that is a must for anyone with Crohn's who wants to 

try diet is:



  Jones, V.A, Dickinson, R.J.,Workman,E., et al. Crohn's Disease: 

  Maintenance of Remission By Diet. The Lancet, July 27, 1985. pg 177-180.



It describes exactly what we did with Greg only we did it at home: the home

version is Turkey broth only until no symptoms (if I remember that was

about 3 days) and then add one food in at a time and only keep it in if no

symptoms. In Greg's case symptoms are within 3 hours, I realize that this

is not the case with some Crohn's patients and for those, this may not

work. The good thing about this article is it lists a whole bunch of foods

that may be the problem. For example, while wheat and milk are quite common

problems, if I remember correctly barley was only a problem in 1 out of 150

patients (don't quote me on that just my memory) - barley is definitely a

problem with Greg. All the foods he does have problems with were incidently

in the list.



======



Anyways the gist of it is that they all went on spring water and an

elemental diet. (We had Greg on turkey soup broth and water.) They then

started adding foods in and if they bugged them they cut that food out of

their diet. Out of about 110 people, 50 decided medication and surgery was

easier. Of the 60 who remained, 10 did not stay in remission and found that

diet did not help, the good news is 50 who stuck to their diets have been

3 years in remission. Greg is now 1 1/3 years in remission which was

unimaginable before we did this to him. The things that bother him are

gluten, corn, yeast, tap water, coffee, additives, alcohol, chocolate.  



Anyway the main food intolerances listed are wheat, dairy products,

brassicas, maize, yeast, tomatoes, citrus fruits, eggs, tap water, coffee,

banana, potato, lamb, pork, beef, rice, tea, fish, onions, chicken, barley,

rye, turkey, additives, alcohol, chocolate, shellfish, swede (rutabaga).







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: hypertension totally recoved

From: "loki" <loki5@mindspring.com>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:15:39 -0600

--------

Wow.  I'm totally recovered from hypertension too!  In my case, I lost a

good bit of weight and fixed a sleep apnea.  Worked like a charm.



Now, why is it that I think you've got some spam tucked away in your email

box just waiting for folks to ask...



Loki\



"wayleng2001" <wayleng2001@yahoo.com.sg> wrote in message

news:3c053219_1@news.tm.net.my...

> Totally recovered from hypertension

>

> I want to tell all of you an unbelieveble news; my blood pressure is in

> normal level now, doctor said that I'm totally recovered from

hypertension.

> Thank you god, thank you...

>

>  Actually I read a pay it forward mail from newsgroup months ago, it is an

> information sent by a patient that recovered from hypertension. I want to

> take this opportunity to say thank you very much to whom who sent that

> incredible information

>

> please visit the website www.chengkim.com/yongjian and forward to your

> friends.

>

> God bless you

>

>









==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: BuckWheat?

From: mmontiel@tampabay.rr.com

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:15:08 GMT

--------

Does anyone know the health benefits of eating BuckWheat? 





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: BuckWheat?

From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address)

Date: 29 Nov 2001 23:16:22 GMT

--------



> Does anyone know the health benefits of eating BuckWheat? 



It isn't wheat.  For people with wheat intolerance that's fairly

significant.  It's very unlikely to induce food allergy (being

evolutionarily much closer to thistles than to any grain).



Nutritionally it has nothing special going for it, except that most

people could usefully eat a wider variety of starches than they do.

It grows in fairly appalling climates, which may make it significant

when global weather really goes down the toilet.



========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes,

freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: BuckWheat?

From: Tsu Dho Nimh <abacaxi@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 04:46:11 -0700

--------

bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address) wrote:





>> Does anyone know the health benefits of eating BuckWheat? 



It makes nice pancakes :)  











Tsu Dho Nimh



A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.





==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: hypertension cure

From: "M. Templeton" <nini2@bellsouth.net>

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:03:23 -0500

--------

Chris,



There's many things that will help bring your BP down but if your diet is

not a healthy one it would be fruitless to use a natural remedy and expect

good results. Lean meats and lots of fresh vegetables are a must...cut way

back on processed foods.



The main thing that can start you on a recovery road is water...pure,

spring, bottles or tap filtered water. It will start your system pumping

properly in a short time. Drink 8,  8 oz  glasses per day.  First one in the

morning   re:  one before your shower and another after dressing for

example, but be sure to do it on an empty stomach for  best results.

Eliminate coffee, caffeine is a diuretic and it actually draws fluids from

your joints.  Decaffeineated is created by using phamaldyhide ...avoid it!

Avoid sodas and diet drinks.



Drink herbs teas as they also contribute to you natural fluid supply and can

count as one of the 8 glasses. There are many flavorful choices on the

market....after a few cups you will acquire a taste for them and find you

favorites. Use a bit of honey with your tea if you're not on a sugar free

diet. Try it iced.



You need to keep your system pumping to get that pressure down. Also, garlic

in your foods or in pill form has been know to decrease the BP. There are

other natural supplements and foods but without the water they fall short.

Hope this helps.



Margaret Templeton,

Editor/Publisher:



Discover The PATH News, a free monthly

publication with -natural- approaches for

chronic illnesses.



Healthy news you can use.

mailto:subscribe@thepathnews.com

visit: http://thepathnews.com





"chris" <emptyhed@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:eKbN7.1214$%j1.344455@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...

> i am looking for a hypertension cure if there is one can anybody advise me

>

> thanks

>

> chris

>

>











==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: hypertension cure

From: Foxfire <foxfire@piglet.asarian.org>

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 03:14:56 -0500

--------

> "chris" <emptyhed@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

> news:eKbN7.1214$%j1.344455@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...

> > i am looking for a hypertension cure if there is one can 

> > anybody advise me thanks > chris



It would be helpful to know whether you had high systolic or high

diastolic (or both). There can be quite different causes for one versus

the other. The cause of some high blood pressure ("essential/idiopathic")

is not adequately understood. 



"M. Templeton" <nini2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:2hxN7.18881$8n4.1483326@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...

> Chris, [...]if your diet is not a healthy one it would be

> fruitless to use a natural remedy and expect good results. Lean

> meats and lots of fresh vegetables are a must...cut way back on

> processed foods.



I certainly agree with eating a healthy diet. Yet, as I recall, the

shortcut is to cut way back on the heavy sodium salt intake and saturated

fat found in processed foods. 



The problem for many people when they try to do this is that American food

is too bland and unsatisfying, since it has evolved to sell to as many

cultural genotypes as possible. Generically, I suggest Mediterranean

olive-oil/onion based foods with heavy Middle Eastern spices.

Alternatively, find out where your ancestors came from and eat the fully

spiced foods which they ate, while using moderation on traditional

saturated fat intake intended for heavy manual labor lifestyles.



> [...] Drink 8,  8 oz  glasses per day.  



As one a.f.h poster's mother found out (drinking 8 *16oz* glasses), if one

overdoes the water intake, especially combined with low salt, one can end

up hospitalized with hyponatremia (low blood serum sodium). Personally, I

couldn't possibly drink that much water (8 x 8oz)  on a regular basis. It

depends on your body type and metabolic rate. 



> [...]

> Eliminate coffee, caffeine is a diuretic and it actually 

> draws fluids from your joints.  



Yes, but probably about the same small percentage of water is drawn from

everywhere at the same time? 



> [...]

> Drink herbs teas as they also contribute to you natural 

> fluid supply and can count as one of the 8 glasses. 



Alas, substituting random herb teas for coffee is not an escape.  Probably

more herb teas promote diuresis than any other single pharmacological

feature.



> [...]

>Decaffeineated is created by using phamaldyhide ...avoid it!



Formaldehyde?? I hadn't heard about that. My understanding is that coffee

used to be decaffed by using either TCE (trichlorethylene solvent) or

water. Don't know, but I'm guessing that TCE has fallen out of favor due

to ozone layer destruction, acquifer contamination, and suspicion of

traces of TCE left in the coffee. In any case, water decaffed coffee

should be ok.



> [...]

> Avoid sodas and diet drinks. [...]



Many do contain hidden salt. Some people seem to be overtly sensitive to

aspartame, others possibly in subclinical ways not fully understood.





Fortunately, you don't need to guess. If you buy a blood pressure meter

you can find out which advice works and what does not. Keep a regular log

and also record the error difference between your meter and the nurse's

more accurate readings. 



Sean

---

 







==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Re: hypothyroidism

From: Linda N <linda_n@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:28:49 GMT

--------

On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:47:35 -0700, Michael Moore

<hrbmoore@mindspring.com> wrote:



> I've

>> got no reason to believe any "thermogenic" substance would do anything

>> for me, whether it be paradichlorobenzene, ma huang or something from a

>> nearby hedgerow.

>

>I have had some success with the use of Centella asiatica (Gotu Kola),

>preferably as a fresh plant tincture, 20-30 drops t.i.d.

>

>It seems to be one of the few herbs that can help RAISE a mildly

>depressed thyroid..seems to moderately increase pituitary-hypothalamus

>response. Also...no soy protein supplements...they can suppress thyroid

>functions in wobbly-thyroid-folks.



It is interesting that you state this, Mr. Moore.   Although I am just

an herbal student at this point and hardly in your league,  or that of

Henriette or other professional herbalists (and most likely never will

be), and I was not an herbal student then,  Gotu Kola was one of the

herbs I used for quite a while when I accidently induced

hypothyroidism in myself juicing too much raw cabbage when I didn't

know any better. (I found out quick enough though! (grin).   Thomas

Bartram who wrote "Bartram's Encyclopedia of Herbal Medicine", also

list Goto Kola as helpful.   He lists Ginseng as helpfull too.



I used Siberian Ginseng (Eleutherococcus senticosis.) at times to try

and help my thyroid bounce back as well.   According to Daniel Mowery

Ph.D. who wrote "Herbal Tonic Therapies" Siberian Ginseng "Improves

thyroid responsiveness to changing body demands". Of course he also

notes that it has a nutrative or tonic effect on the adrenal glands.



Dr. Mercola's site (www.mercola.com) talks alot of the relationship

between poorly functioning adrenals and a poorly functioning thyroid.



The book "Herbal Defense" by Robin Landis and Karta Purkh Sinkh

Khalsa,  AHG lists Saw Palmetto as usefull as a thyroid tonic and a

general endrocrine tonic, noting that in the stampede to use it for

BPH the fact that it is a general glandular tonic is now frequently

overlooked.   David Hoffman lists it as a general glandular tonic

too, as well as Michael Tierra, and in "The Little Herb Encyclopedia"

Jack Richardson, N.D. states that Saw Palmetto berries assist the

thyroid to regulate sexual development, normalizing the activity of

those glands and organs."



I have to admit I am still perplexed by all this infomation about Saw

Palmetto and the thyroid, but something else I read about the probable

relationship between Estrogen dominance syndrome at menopause as

proposed by John Lee in his book "What your doctor may not tell you

about Menopause" at least struck me as interesting.  He claims

Estrogen tends to have supressive effects on Thyroid  gland function

especially when it is in "dominance"  (unopposed by Progesterone).



His  proposed theory on this is that estrogen inhibits thyroid action

in the cells, probably interfering with the binding of thyroid to its

receptor. Both hormones have phenol rings at a corner of their

molecule and Estrogen may compete with thyroid hormone at the site of

its receptor. In doing so the thryoid hormone may never complete its

mission.  So in his mind the hypothyroidism that appears to be very

common in Menopausal Women may be the result of Estrogen Dominance.



Some herbals, state that Saw Palmetto has an estrogenic substance

("The Way of Herbs" by Michael Tierra for one).  My understanding of

many "estrogenic herbs (please correct me if I am wrong here)  is that

they can be called either estrogenic or antiestrogenic depending on

how you look at it. They have substances in them that occupy estrogen

receptor sites and so complete with estrogen if you have too much

floating around, and supply some weak estrogenic "activity" if you do

not have enough.



Could Saw Palmetto be of thyroid help in menopausal women, or women

with other reproductive organ problems by normalizing estrogen levels?

I wonder.  And I wonder how this might or might not apply to men or

different mechanisms might apply.  If anyone knows I would interested

in learning more.



Anyway, I also took kelp, L-tryrosine, co-enzyme B2 , co-enzyme B6,

and B1 in between meals for my thyroid as well on the advice of my

twin sister who has a Ph.D. in nutritional biochemistry.  I also made

certain I took a multiple vitamin mineral supplement and other

supplements to cover my bases when it came to selenium, zinc, and

copper, and my MCS physician agreed with my choices.



To make thyroid hormone, iodine still needs to attach to the amino

acid tyrosine, and several nutrients are needed to accomplish this

including zinc, copper, vitamins A, B2, B3, B6, and C.  



Also if selenium is short supply, it results in a decrease in the

conversion of T4 to T3 in other cells in the body.  (Not in the

thyroid or pituitary.)  People with a selenium deficiency often have

elevated levels of T4 and TSH (the hormone secreted by the pituitary

to stimulate the thyroid to secrete more T4).  Selenium deficiency

results in low thyroid activity in the cells even though hormone

levels are normal or even elevated. The body does not try to correct

this problem because the thyroid and pituitary are not affected by a

selenium deficiency as much as other cells, so the regulatory feedback

system fails. (Information found in "Total Wellness" by Joseph

Pizzorno, N.D.)



I just started to take Saw Palmetto for other reasons but one of the

surprises I got when I started it was I noticed that when I had

pancreatic attacks from chemical or mold exposures, (I still get them

since my antibiotic nightmare years ago) they were much more mild

still and much shorter in duration. I just saw my MCS physician last

Tuesday and told her about Saw Palmetto being listed as a general

endrocrine tonic as well as a urinary antiseptic and urinary

antiinflammatory.  However even as I knew this, I was not expecting a

benefit in reduced pancreatitis.  It will be interesting to see if it

will help with my thyroid as well.



So far my physician is stilll monitoring my thyroid since I induced

the hypothyroidism in myself and she just took another test.  The TSH

was still slightly elevated last year ( 2.8) but she was (and still

is) reluctant to put me on thyroid medication (which with her

wholistic orientation would most likely be Armour thyroid and not

Synthroid or one of those T4 only formulas), unless I have no other

choice.  Once on thyroid meds I would most likely have to be on them

for life.  Once the thyroid sees it is getting enough hormone

elsewhere it stops attempting to produce its own and the thyroid

atrophies.



I also stepped up my aerobic exercising program.  Exercise not only

stimulates thyroid gland secretion, it increases tissue sensitivity to

thyroid hormone.  It may be that many of the health benefits of

exercise may be a result of improved thyroid function.



I am allergic to Soy so I don't eat it, however, I also  limit use of

other goitrogenic foods and when I do eat them I eat them cooked not

raw.



I should have the results of my resent thyroid test in a few weeks,

and I am definitely hoping all my hard work on all these different

wholistic fronts has paid off.



Linda N.

















==========

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs

Subject: Liver support

From: "Peace4you" <peace_4_you*nospam*@yahoo.com>

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:27:40 GMT

--------

Hi all,



I have to take large amounts of medication and I also take many herbs to

help the meds and also take herbs to counteract the effects of medication

and this includes milk thistle which I've been taking for years. Recently, I

had to get more aggressive with my treatment and my blood work is showing

that my liver is not happy (bilrubin count is high) and it is preventing me

from continuing with my treatment.



Can anyone please tell me what other herbs I can add to the standardized

milk thistle to get even more liver support?



Thank you!

Jen







