

==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: alchohol in tinctures

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:08:16 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



I went through this before since I not only make tinctures but I make body

sprays

that are alcohol based, and I like to use vodka because I don't want the

ingredients

they use to denature it with.



I call the ATF (Alcohol, Firearms & Tobacco) and finally got an agent to

call me

back and he explained it to me this way:



Their real concern is whether they collect the taxes on potable alcohol. You

can

get a license to denature alcohol, and that entitles you to buy ethanol or

grain

spirits without paying taxes on them. However you have to keep all kinds of

records and show that all of the alcohol was denatured (rendered unfit to

drink)

or you owe them the taxes.



Because I buy my alcohol at the local liquor store, I have already paid the

tax

on it and I can do what I like with it. "As long as you are not calling it

Smirnoff

Spritzer" he said. In other words, I can't resell it as a drink, and as long

as my

label says "Do not ingest" I am ok.



Tincturing it, or adding essential oils to it like I do with my body sprays

renders it

denatured. However I can't sell that alcohol as denatured, I don't

think.(Not an

issue for me)



The ATF has a web site (sorry I don't have the URL, I will look in my files

and

see if I can find it) and you can pull up a page with a list of approved

denaturing

agents. Some of them are really scary chemicals, but some of them are as

benign

as familiar essential oils like wintergreen and thyme.



HTH

Heidi



>

> I don't have the answer, but have a similar question.  No matter which

> 'government' agency I go to I get conflicting answers.  I'd like to make

and

> sell my own tinctures, but cannot find out which 'department' it would

come

> under, or if or what kind of government oversight I would have to lawfully

> have.  Does anyone have any insight into this?  I am in Wisconsin.

> phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: I: Herbal Energetics

From: "marco valussi" <marcobabi@libero.it>

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:55:04 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Marco Valussi <marcobabi@libero.it> :



Sent to the herblist by Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu> :



<<Marco: Whoa, I didn't mean to open this can of worms....<snip>  . Critics

have been unwilling or unable to tell me exactly what is their criticism.>>

That's a pity obviously, and a regrettable conduct.  Criticism to a

position must always be based on debatable, hence open, arguments.  Perhaps

one of

>the reasons for such a failure of the herbalists you consulted was that

they completely disregarded PH work, which obviously isn't a good reason for

failing to explain one's reasons, or perhaps they thought the explanation

wasn't that simple, which again is not a good reason but perhaps more

understandable.  The thing is, PH books are impressive under many angles,

but they fail, IMO, in their very basic assumptions, and in the general

historical approach.  To cut a long story short, collecting an impressive

volume of historical material does not make a work an historical work, and

even if someone's work is indeed an historical work, it might still be a

bad piece of historical work, even if it is impressive - it can be an

impressive failure.  But more on this later.



<<Because I have asked so many times and been rebuffed so

often without hard and fast information, I have begun to assume that there

is some underlying political or personal reason for the feelings (such as

jealousy might be).>>



Understandable



<<I am interested in your critique because I would like to better

understand

the criticisms of P.H.'s work. As I read it, P.H. is not trying to find

some ancient link between TCM and "TGM," rather he is trying to bring

forward the western energetic tradition and to compare/contrast it with the

highly developed TCM approach.>>



Let it be clear that I am not denying the right of anyone to creat his/her

own sincretic view of the world, or to create a new 'energetic' system of

medicine (whatever that might mean) using clippings from different systems

of medicine.  But comparative history is different.  PH attempt, as far as

I

understand it, is to find a systematic, theoretical link between these two

entities.  To claim mutual translatibility between the systems he is

claiming the existence of a common theoretical ground, because two theories

can be translated only as far as they share a large chunk of the 'world'.

There is  really no space here to delve into the intricacies of this

subject, but I would say that my main points of critique are these:

the entity TGM is highly suspicious and I do not think it exists; and PH

really gives no good reasons apart from general similarities and links

between different systems of medicine to to support such a strong argument.

Therefore a comparison between TCM and TGM is already specious.

But let's forget this, and suppose that PH was investigating TCM

vs.medieval Galenism.  At this point, the main criticism is that of

circularity, because PH is taking for granted what he needs to demonstrate,

that there is a common ground for comparison.

Some of the most important developments in historiography in the last

decades have been the re-evaluation of the social aspect of history (Les

Annales School), the rediscover of the history of the multitude as

contrasted with the history of The Great Men, the evaluation of the

Fachtliterature vs. the Learned Texts.  From these developments and from

feminist history came also the appreciation of contextualisation, the

holistic nature of language, the notion that concepts do not exist in a

vacuum, and that their evaluation has to be diacronic (the way they came to

be) as well as sincronic (the way they are).  Now, all these

post-positivistic developments seem to be totally absent from PH work.  He

seems to find completely unproblematic to compare terms coming from very

distant contexts.  As if concepts like human nature, cosmos, nature,

disease, elements and the like were universal and not influenced by the

historical moment



The fact that two terms bear a meaning thanks to the relations they share

with all the other terms in the respective cosmologies, and that therefore

a

comparson of the terms cannot limit itself to a superficial resonance but

has to look deeply into the respective cultural, social and scientific

'worlds', seems not to worry him that much



<<I would agree that his summary of "TGM" may

be somewhat contrived, perhaps even inconsistent, but since this tradition

has been "lost," someone has to start recreating it somewhere.>>



I do not understand this, I thought we were talking about studying our past

tradition.  Recreating a tradition I do not understand.  I do not like

nostalgic, golden-age visions of the past, as if somewhere down there

there

should be some purer truth.  Down there there is the beginning of that

process - history - which we are living now.  We are creating our own

tradition, no need to try to savage something which has very few links with

us.  Studying it, appreciating it, taking from it whatever of wise and

important we can take, yes, but resuscitating it, no thanks, not my cup of

tea



<<Thanks so much for the recommended reading -- I will definitely check it

out. And I would appreciate any other knowledge you can share about this --

<snip> .  --Susan>>



If you want to read what I think about Chinese-Galenic comparative history,

I can e-mail you something longish.



OK, here are some interesting readings.  I am, afraid I do not have handy

all the exact details (I can find out when in my studio)



Sivin, N   'State, Cosmos, and Body in the last three centuries B.C.'

Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies

Sivin, N  'On the reconstruction of ancient chinese alchemy'

Graham, AC  (1970) 'China, Europe, and the origins of Modern Science:

  Needham's The Grand Tritration'. In  S. Nakayama and N. Sivin (eds.)

  Chinese Science.  The MIT Press

Perrigo, CG (1922) Theories of Macrocosm and Microcosm in the  History of

    Philosophy, New York, Columbia University Press

Lloyd, GER Magic, reason and experience

Siraisi, NG (1990) Medieval & Early Renaissance Medicine.  Chicago

    University Press



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Tincture Ratios

From: "Lise" <violetside@gotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:32:16 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Lise <violetside@gotmail.com> :



Hello Everybody,

This is my first time on any mailing list, so I hope this question I have

is not a repeat ov questions answered already.  This is a great list, so

helpful and informative.  I can already tell that everybody here gets a

lot out of it.  Well, here is my question:

I am learning how to make tinctures again for the first time in a few

years.  Previously, I had simply thrown fresh herb into a jar ov vodka and

everything turned out fine, though not very consistent.  Now I am trying

to go about it more scientifically.  So I have thoroughly read the section

in Michael Moore's manuals about dry herb tincture.  I have read and

reread these manuals to make sure that I have not misinterpreted it

somewhere, because the ratios just do not seem to be working for me.  I

have started with a skullcap tincture.  Michael Moore's manual specifies

that skullcap should be used in a 1:5 ratio with 50% alcohol and 50%

water.  Si as the manual directs, I weighed out 100g ov Scullcap dried

herb and then ground it up.  Then I measured out 500 mL of water/alcohol,

poured that into a jar and started to add the powdered herb.  After

pouring half ov the herb in, the liquid was full.  There isn't really any

room in the liquid for the rest of the herb.  How can this ratio be so

unworkable?  Have I done something wrong?  Or should I put the rest of the

herb in even though it won't really saturate with liquid?  I am sure that

the manual said 1 WEIGHT ov herb:5 VOLUME ov liquid.

Any help you could offer would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Lise



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Tincture Ratios

From: "Diana Lapp" <dlapp@bmi.net>

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:49:13 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Diana Lapp <dlapp@bmi.net> :



Lisa,



You seem to be understanding Mr. Moore's formulas correctly.  My 

best guess is that somewhere along the line you measured 

incorrectly.  As a very rough check, 100 gr of ground skullcap 

should equal approximately 3/4 cup by volume (packed), and 500 

ml of liquid would be a shade over 2 cups.  



Diana



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Tincture Ratios

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 07:43:03 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Lise" <violetside@gotmail.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>have started with a skullcap tincture.  Michael Moore's manual specifies

>that skullcap should be used in a 1:5 ratio with 50% alcohol and 50%

>water.  Si as the manual directs, I weighed out 100g ov Scullcap dried

>herb and then ground it up.  Then I measured out 500 mL of water/alcohol,



Yep, that's right. Perhaps your powdered skullcap is too light? In that case,

you should percolate your dried herb tincture. Percolation is not as difficult

as it sounds, but do follow the instructions in the percolation worksheet to the

letter.



Actually, I never powder herbs if I make a tincture by maceration. OTOH, I

percolate a lot. Percolation takes more alcohol to the same amount of herb, but

you get more tincture out, too.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Horse Chestnut

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 11:11:32 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



>To anyone out there:



         I have been intrigued with Horse Chestnut (Aesculus hippocastanum) 

for many years now and have always wondered what the "exacting" process the 

manufacturers use to detoxify the natural seed.  No where have I been able 

to find the slightest information on the nature of this extraction process. 

I have read articles which suggested that cooking or drying was all that 

was necessary to rid the seed of the toxic properties. Then I have read 

other books that seem to suggest that the natural seed tincture was ok, as 

long it was prescribed in proper small dosages.  I have spent money on 

expensive monographs on this tree with no increased insight into how to 

process the seed. What gives?  Anyone out there can enlighten me?  The 

process to detoxify, can not be that complex or secret, can it?



Doug  A.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Horse Chestnut

From: "cyli@visi.com" <cyli@tiny.net>

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:01:59 -6

--------

Sent to the herblist by Cylise <cyli@tiny.net> :



>          I have been intrigued with Horse Chestnut (Aesculus hippocastanum) for

> many years now and have always wondered what the "exacting" process the

> manufacturers use to detoxify the natural seed.  No where have I been able to

> find the slightest information on the nature of this extraction process. I have

> read articles which suggested that cooking or drying was all that was necessary

> to rid the seed of the toxic properties. Then I have read other books that seem

> to suggest that the natural seed tincture was ok, as long it was prescribed in

> proper small dosages.  I have spent money on expensive monographs on this tree

> with no increased insight into how to process the seed. What gives?  Anyone out

> there can enlighten me?  The process to detoxify, can not be that complex or

> secret, can it?



From what I've read it's not as toxic as things like foxglove and is safe to use 

in small infused or extracts without special treatment as long as it's in small 

quantities.  Butcher's broom was suggested as an alternative for varicose 

veins, though.  When used as livestock feed (in the Eastern European 

countries where it originated) it's soaked in lime water and then dried and 

ground up.  Cattle will then eat it and suffer no appearant harm, but pigs 

won't touch it.  What, if anything, the commercial extracts have done to de-

toxify them, I have no idea.



I only answer my mail on an average of every

two or three months.  Do not despair.  Patience helps.



rec.backcountry vixen



http://www.visi.com/~cyli



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Horse Chestnut

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 11:12:24 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



polo@ccp.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>         I have been intrigued with Horse Chestnut (Aesculus hippocastanum) 

>for many years now and have always wondered what the "exacting" process the 

>manufacturers use to detoxify the natural seed.  No where have I been able 

>to find the slightest information on the nature of this extraction process. 

>I have read articles which suggested that cooking or drying was all that 

>was necessary to rid the seed of the toxic properties. Then I have read 

>other books that seem to suggest that the natural seed tincture was ok, as 

>long it was prescribed in proper small dosages.  I have spent money on 



Do you want to use it for food? You could of course use the same processing as

is used for acorns (I think it's crushing, cooking in several waters, and

drying), but truth to be told, if it were any good after processing we'd do it

routinely, not as something to try, once and never again, out of interest.



For medicine? Just do your tincture, or oil (external use), or salve, regular

style. The "toxic" saponins are part of what makes it work. Just remember that

if you overdose you'll have the runs, with some griping.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Lichen Planus

From: "Elinor" <eratcliffe@optusnet.com.au>

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:09:56 +1000

--------

Sent to the herblist by elinor <elinor@big.net.au> :



I need some help on treating lichen planus.  I have searched the web

endlessly, but to no avail.  The only things that come to mind would be St

Johns for the nervous system, and something for the liver.  Stress is highly

indicated, the patient is approx. 50 years of age, female, smoker and coffee

drinker.



I have not heard of this before.



I would appreciate any input.



Many thanks,



Elinor



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: infused oil preservative question

From: "Renee" <rja86@webtv.net>

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:57:46 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Renee <rja86@webtv.net> :



Hi,

about 6 months ago I recieved valuable information from some of you regarding instructions on infusing oils.  I am following the advice that I remember. My question is, I am infusing my first oil (by the sun) and it contains several different dried herbs in one oil; chickweed, plantain, comfrey, goldenseal, SJW. I am using olive oil.  I want to use SOME of the oil to make a salve for healing, but I want to save the remainder of oil for later use. I was told to add benzoin, lavender, and tea tree to the salve jars just before pouring in the warm oil/beeswax combo. (for preserving) at 5 drops per oz.  I understand that.  BUT, how can I PRESERVE the remainder of oil that I'm wanting to bottle for future use?  What can I add to preserve it, and do I need to refrigerate the remaining oil?  What is the shelf life?

PS Now, the most recent info. I got, was to use Vit. e in the salve to preserve.  If so, can I add it to the leftover oil to preserve?  What amount per ounce?

It's all so conflicting, and the herbs were expensive, and I want the oil to last a long time, bec. It will only be used on my family and I.  



Thank you so much, and take care.

Renee



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: infused oil preservative question

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com>

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:56:24 +0300 

--------

Sent to the herblist by Miikkali Leppihalme <leppihalme@quartal.com> :



Renee:

> BUT, how can I PRESERVE the remainder of oil that

> I'm wanting to bottle for future use?



The same way you preserve the salve. Add a few drops of vit E per oz. Or a

few drops of essential oil of tea tree or lavender. I always make my salves

with oils that are already high in vit E; cold pressed oils of olive, almond

or rapeseed. This way I don't much need to bother about the oil going

rancid. I usually add some essential oil of lavender because I like its

aroma, because its effects complement the salve and because it gives me more

sureness about preservetion.



> do I need to refrigerate the remaining oil?



Not necessarily but if you want to keep on the safe side, by all means.



> What is the shelf life?



I make salves and oils only for one year's supply at a time, but I think

they'd keep fine for two. Someone who knows better may correct or confirm

this.



-

M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:01:33 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



Hi Renee,



I use a few drops of vitamin e per oz. A few years ago someone told me about

using Balm of Gilead buds and i have been really pleased with that. If i

want to keep an oil infusion for a year or so, i have been adding about 5

buds per gallon with great success. I know that some folks like to use

Jojoba oil as a preservative as well.



hope this is helpful -



bek

-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:27:49 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



add something that is an antioxidant, vit e oil,or grapeseed oil,or 

laurea leaves... I have never made a combined oil at the same time 

and am wondering how that will turn out. I make individual oils and 

then mix them together if i want a blend.

Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: infused oil preservative question

From: dpotocki <dpotocki@erols.com>

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 08:07:29 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by dpotocki@erols.com :



>  "Leppihalme, Miikkali wrote"

> Renee:

> > BUT, how can I PRESERVE the remainder of oil that

> > I'm wanting to bottle for future use?

>

> (snip)... I always make my salves

> with oils that are already high in vit E; cold pressed oils of olive, almond

> or rapeseed. This way I don't much need to bother about the oil going

> rancid. I usually add some essential oil of lavender because I like its

> aroma, because its effects complement the salve and because it gives me more

> sureness about preservetion.

>

I may be misinterpreting this message, but I use a lot of cold pressed

olive oil in fresh herbal salad dressings and  in cooking. It definitely

goes rancid if not refrigerated. Perhaps for salves it would not matter,

but I have a feeling it would, as I can tell by the smell when the oil

is not right. That would affect my enjoyment of a salve (and possibly

the actions of the infused herbs contained in it???). I am just a lay

person here, so if anyone can add to this, I would appreciate it.



Perhaps, Renee,  you could use up your olive oil in cooking and just

purchase it fresh for your next  batch of infusions--unless you have

already added some preservatives which might not be appropriate for

ingesting. Of course, if you have a 50-gallon drum of the stuff, that is

another story, too. <Grin>



Donna



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: "H.A.C. Le Poole" <hlepoole@planet.nl>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:35:12 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by h.a.c. le poole <hlepoole@planet.nl> :



> I may be misinterpreting this message, but I use a lot of cold pressed

> olive oil in fresh herbal salad dressings and  in cooking. It definitely

> goes rancid if not refrigerated.



I feel I have to respond to the few comments made on the best choice of an

infusion oil as there are still a lot of misunderstandings on the stability

properties of various oils and their suitability for infusions. With

stability I mean the resistance to turning rancid. I think that if you go

through all the trouble of making an infusion or a salve you want to keep it

as long as possible and so often the results are disappointing because of

the wrong choice of the oil. All oils will get rancid sooner or later, but

the speed of turning rancid has everything to do with the type of oil and

the way it has been produced and stored. Mikkali is completely right that in

general cold pressed oils are more stable than the more commonly available

refined oils where most of the natural preservatives ( better word is

antioxidants) are removed in the process. However between cold pressed (non

refined) oils there is also quite a difference in stability, which is not

only related to the natural content of vitamin E and other antioxidants, but

also the way the oil has been handled/stored before it arrives in your

house. F.e. there are literally dozens of different types of olive oil (

like wine vintages) which differ very much in stability, because they have

been processed and stored differently (BTW olive oil is not any more

pressed, but centrifuged, in spite of what they put on the label, but that

is not relevant to the stability). Thus it is very well possible that

Mikkali's olive oil is much more stable than Donna's. Look f.e. at the

colour: usually the greener the oil, the higher the content of natural

antioxidants and the higher the stability, but also the higher the price and

flavour. Not everybody is happy with the strong flavour of olive oil. On the

other hand wheat germ oil which is used because of its unusual high content

of vitamin E, can definitely turn rancid, if not properly processed and

stored in a cool and dark place.  Most of the wheat germ oil is produced by

solvent extraction and subsequently refined, resulting in a loss in

stability, compared to cold pressed wheat germ oil. But if the cold pressing

is not properly carried out ( and this is a very tricky process) it can be

even less stable than refined wheat germ oil.  Besides the content of

natural antioxidants in the oil, just as important is the fatty acid

composition from which you can largely predict its stability. For that

matter sweet almond oil is a much better choice than canola oil. Someone

mentioned grapeseed oil as a preservative?.Grapeseed oil is a very

unsuitable choice as it is produced by solvent extraction and always

refined. It has a very high content of unsaturated fatty acids and a very

low content of antioxidants and turns rancid if you blink your eye. So your

last choice for infusions. Jojoba oil on the other hand is extremely stable

even though it has very little natural antioxidants and very suitable for

this purpose. Just a bit expense.

Don't use soybean oil. It's dirt cheap, but very unstable. Safflower oil is

another one I would never use for this purpose. No one has mentioned (non

roasted) sesame oil, but this is also quite stable without a pronounced

flavour. Some of you may have come across rice bran oil. Very suitable for

our purpose.Castor oil, refined or unrefined, is also quite suitable as long

as it is only for dermal applications. Your best bet are the new so called

high oleic sunflower oils (nci) which are very stable (even when refined)

and very neutral in taste and odour and very reasonably priced. Your local

trader in specialty oils for cosmetics can certainly provide you with these

type of oils. Finally the suggestion of using a drop of vitamin E is also

very valuable for most oils which do not already have a high content of

vitamin E.  How do you know that your oil is already high in vitamin E? Very

difficult to say. But usually coloured oils are higher in antioxidants,

including vitamin E, than lighter ones. But don't overdo it because strange

enough too much vitamin E has the reverse effect!

Good luck

Rik Le Poole



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:59:52 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



Just to add my two cents, I use olive oil for infusions that involve heat,

because I have read that olive is one of the only oils that doesn't change

chemically when heated. Something else to consider when choosing your oils.



Heidi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 00:00:08 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>Just to add my two cents, I use olive oil for infusions that involve heat,

>because I have read that olive is one of the only oils that doesn't change

>chemically when heated. Something else to consider when choosing your oils.



Not a big consideration. Any cold-pressed oil with lots of vitamin E works as

well. However, the normal cooking oils, gotten cheaply at your nearest

supermarket, aren't usable for much of anything.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:43:39 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



>>Just to add my two cents, I use olive oil for infusions that involve heat,

because I have read that olive is one of the only oils that doesn't change

chemically when heated. <<



it does above about 160 f!!! you need to keep it below that when warming it



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: "gcwhite" <gcwhite@ntlworld.com>

Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:49:18 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Graham White <gcwhite@ntlworld.com> :



No this is incorrect.  The only oils that are not affected chemically by

heat are the saturated fats, eg. animal fats and some vegetable oils that

are very high in saturated fats such as coconut oil.



Olive oil is a mainly mono-unsaturated fat and as such is moderately stable

to heat ie. it's OK to use for stir frying but not for things like chips

(french fries to the Americans).



Polyunsaturated fats are very unstable to heat and should not be used for

cooking or in processes involving heat due to oxidation reactions, and more

importantly the formation of trans-fatty acids.  They should also be kept

refrigerated anywhere apart from Finland :-)



> Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



> Just to add my two cents, I use olive oil for infusions that involve heat,

> because I have read that olive is one of the only oils that doesn't change

> chemically when heated. Something else to consider when choosing your

oils.



> Heidi



'Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill' by Udo Erasmus is a very good overview of

the whole subject.



Cheers



Graham White  B.Sc. (Herb. Med.), MNIMH.

Medical Herbalist

Bishop's Stortford & Buntingford



gcwhite@ntlworld.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: infused oil preservative question

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:17:24 +0300 

--------

Sent to the herblist by Miikkali Leppihalme <leppihalme@quartal.com> :



Donna:

> I may be misinterpreting this message, but I use a lot

> of cold pressed olive oil in fresh herbal salad dressings

> and  in cooking. It definitely goes rancid if not

> refrigerated.



Strange. Mine doesn't and I store it in room temperature. For months.



Around here most olive oil bottles have labels that tell me the vit E

content. For salves I choose the one that has the most. Never had any

problems.



Anyway, a safe way would be to add some vit E.



-

M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:07:10 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com> wrote:



>Donna:

>> I may be misinterpreting this message, but I use a lot

>> of cold pressed olive oil in fresh herbal salad dressings

>> and  in cooking. It definitely goes rancid if not

>> refrigerated.

>

>Strange. Mine doesn't and I store it in room temperature. For months.

>

>Around here most olive oil bottles have labels that tell me the vit E

>content. For salves I choose the one that has the most. Never had any

>problems.



Miikkali, Finland is a cool country. Room temperature is very rarely over 21 or

so deg. C, and there's no air conditioning at all at all.



I wouldn't store olive oil in room temperature in the summer in, say, southern

Arizona. Heck, even coffee goes rancid there, in the blink of an eye, if stored

in the cupboard.



But in Finland? My (quality, cold-pressed, E-vitamin-rich) oils keep for years

on end, with no need for refrigeration.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: JCrobin838@aol.com

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:09:45 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jackie <JCrobin838@aol.com> :



In a message dated 6/6/01 12:38:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

hlepoole@planet.nl writes:



<< But usually coloured oils are higher in antioxidants,

 including vitamin E, than lighter ones. But don't overdo it because strange

 enough too much vitamin E has the reverse effect!

 Good luck >>



I have also seen olive oil to have a golden color - what would your

opinion be about an oil of this color as opposed to a "green".



Jackie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: "H.A.C. Le Poole" <hlepoole@planet.nl>

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:40:28 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by h.a.c. le poole <hlepoole@planet.nl> :



> I have also seen olive oil to have a golden color - what would your

> opinion be about an oil of this color as opposed to a "green".

>

Could  be OK,  but  hard to tell. All these different types of olive oil are

rather meant for different tastes than for infusions.



However I forgot to mention that  sun light (and high temperature) plays

havoc on any oil and thus putting herbs for infusion in the window sill is

in fact finding a balance between improved infusion results and reduced oil

stability. That's why in Finland no one may have problems with this method

whereas in Arizona this may severely reduce the shelf live of your infusion.

Rik Le Poole



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:58:39 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>Sent to the herblist by h.a.c. le poole <hlepoole@planet.nl> :

>

>

>>  I have also seen olive oil to have a golden color - what would your

>>  opinion be about an oil of this color as opposed to a "green".

>>

>Could  be OK,  but  hard to tell. All these different types of olive oil are

>rather meant for different tastes than for infusions.

>

>However I forgot to mention that  sun light (and high temperature) plays

>havoc on any oil and thus putting herbs for infusion in the window sill is

>in fact finding a balance between improved infusion results and reduced oil

>stability. That's why in Finland no one may have problems with this method

>whereas in Arizona this may severely reduce the shelf live of your infusion.

>Rik Le Poole

>

Well I have waited for Saint John's wort to turn red in the cupboard 

before but it just never develops fully until exposed to sunlight, so 

I think a bit of sunlight is essential for a descent SJW oil. Now for 

my infusions I use extra virgin olive oil and prefer the green 

looking stuff, have added cresote as a preservative but have also 

used vitamin E and I guess misguidedly grape seed oil just bits of 

it( a friend of mine who makes /sells soap and salve all the time 

buys it 5 gallon amounts, the expense has mainly kept me away 

though). I tend to steer away from safflower oil even the oleic 

because I used it for years hoping to get enough EFAs and had eczema 

off and on the whole time , when I switched to olive oil no more 

eczema ever. Also because it is so hot here I do refrigerate the bulk 

of my stored oil, leaving out a salad dressing container at a time 

for use.

  Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: infused oil preservative question

From: "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:29:54 -0500 

--------

Sent to the herblist by poutinen, jay <jpoutine@uwsp.edu> :



If you squeeze the sh-- out of the olives, the olive oil turns green.



-----Original Message-----

From: JCrobin838@aol.com [mailto:JCrobin838@aol.com]

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:10 PM

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question



I have also seen olive oil to have a golden color - what would your

opinion be about an oil of this color as opposed to a "green".



Jackie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: infused oil preservative question

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com>

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:55:24 +0300 

--------

Sent to the herblist by Miikkali Leppihalme <leppihalme@quartal.com> :



Henriette:

> Miikkali, Finland is a cool country.



Errr...umm...yeah...I've noticed! I tend to forget about these environmental

things; has happened before.



> But in Finland? My (quality, cold-pressed, E-vitamin-rich) 

> oils keep for years on end, with no need for refrigeration.



For how long does your infused herbal oils keep their medicinal potency?

Probably differently with different herbs, but can you give some general

outline?



-

M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: infused oil preservative question

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:15:16 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com> wrote to

herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>> But in Finland? My (quality, cold-pressed, E-vitamin-rich) 

>> oils keep for years on end, with no need for refrigeration.

>

>For how long does your infused herbal oils keep their medicinal potency?

>Probably differently with different herbs, but can you give some general

>outline?



The only herbal oils I've kept as oils for longer periods of time are Hypericum

and Verbascum. One blend (with meadowsweet, Calendula and lavender) was

forgotten in a cupboard for a year or two, and was still good.



Shrug. Rule of thumb, two years.

Raw oils, no herbs added yet? Shrug. Rule of thumb, two years.

Salve, made with only oil and beeswax, and perhaps a drop or two of lavender or

peppermint EO per 30 ml jar? Rule of thumb, 3-4 years.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Manuka oil

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke2@uswest.net>

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:48:39 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke2@uswest.net> :



Has anyone heard of or have any experience in using Manuka oil? In the

course of a conversation about my website, a customer (ostensibly) mentioned

this, saying that it's much more effective than Tea Tree oil, as well as

virtually odorless. She was touting it so much that I was starting to

suspect that she had some sort of commercial interest. A general internet

search has yielded no information.



Any enlightenment would be appreciated.



Kerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.KerrysHerbals.com

Miracle Salve, herbal tinctures, essential oils and more!



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Manuka oil

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke2@uswest.net>

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:50:50 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke2@uswest.net> :



Apparently I didn't use the right phrase when doing a search. Originally I

did a search on "manuka" and got nothing. I just went back and did a search

on "manuka oil" and yielded a ton of information.



Still, any practical experiences and feedback would be appreciated.



Kerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.KerrysHerbals.com

Miracle Salve, herbal tinctures, essential oils and more!



interest. A general internet

> search has yielded no information.

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Manuka oil

From: "JIM CALLAWAY" <twelco12@email.msn.com>

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:16:20 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by JIM CALLAWAY <twelco12@email.msn.com> :



Dear Kerry - I have been using essential oil of  Makuka, sometimes called

New Zealand Tea Tree oil, for a couple of years.

It is certainly not virtually odorless but is more agreeable than Tea Tree,

and is reported to have a broader range of "anti" properties -

antibacterial, antifungal etc. We have had good results for all sorts of

topical applications, both with two leggeds and four leggeds. Suggest you

give it a try. There is also a related Canuka oil which I have a small

amount of but haven't used as much. Best of luck on your quest for

enlightenment - Peace! James Callaway Jr / Twelve Corners



> Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke2@uswest.net> :

>

> Has anyone heard of or have any experience in using Manuka oil? >

> Any enlightenment would be appreciated.

>

> Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Manuka oil

From: "Steve & Christine Wilson" <scwilson@bigpond.net.au>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:24:19 +1000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Christine <scwilson@bigpond.net.au> :



Hi Kerry ,

I have used for sometime now and use it where ti tree may be indicated it

has a sort of woody smell I personally prefer it to ti tree.



regards Christine

>

> Has anyone heard of or have any experience in using Manuka oil? In the

> course of a conversation about my website, a customer (ostensibly)

mentioned

> this, saying that it's much more effective than Tea Tree oil, as well as

> virtually odorless. She was touting it so much that I was starting to

> suspect that she had some sort of commercial interest. A general internet

> search has yielded no information.

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Manuka oil

From: "Ravenna" <ravenna@netserv.net.au>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:24:40 +0800

--------

Sent to the herblist by Ravenna Morgan <ravenna@netserv.net.au> :



Kerry wrote> Has anyone heard of or have any experience in using Manuka oil?

<snip>more effective than Tea Tree oil, as well as > virtually odorless



Hi Kerry,



Yes, I use manuka oil all the time in preference to ti-tree. It's certainly

not odourless but I prefer the odour to that of ti-tree which I find rather

musty. I've tried to do my own simple trials and to date find that manuka

heals more quickly than ti-tree.

The only benefit for ti-tree that I can find (comparing one oil to another)

is price, ti-tree is very inexpensive and manuka comparatively expensive.



Blessings,



Ravenna

The price of knowledge is

the responsibility to share it.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: R: Manuka oil

From: "marco valussi" <marcobabi@libero.it>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:25:41 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by Marco Valussi <marcobabi@libero.it> :



Hi Kerry,



<<Has anyone heard of or have any experience in using Manuka oil? In the

course of a conversation about my website, a customer (ostensibly) mentioned

this, saying that it's much more effective than Tea Tree oil, as well as

virtually odorless. She was touting it so much that I was starting to

suspect that she had some sort of commercial interest. A general internet

search has yielded no information.>>



well, I do have New Zealand Manuka (Leptospermum scoparium) [New Zealand

Ti-Tree is usually Cordyline australis, not a Leptospermum spp., but

commercial names are always changing], and also Kanuka (Leptospermum

ericoides), but I would never try them on my patients, for two main reasons:

unlike Melaleuca alternifolia, there is virtually no research on these oils,

and that little does not support the claims of similar anti-microbial

benefits to tea-tree; if anything they seem less potent.  Secondly, they are

not widely used internationally in cosmetic products, therefore little

practical and formal testing and little exposure to human skin. They may

well be safe but who knows?  They have not been in use for nearly a century

as has Melaleuca alternifolia.  Moreover, they are very variable depending

on sources.

Serious references are scarce and quite old:

-Les Huiles Essentielles, 1928

E. Gildemeister und Fr. Hoffmann

Schimmel & Companie, Leipzig

(French translation)

905. Ol von Leptospermum scoparium seite 417

906. Ol von leptospermum odoratum seite 419



Let's not forget that ess oils have a very different status from traditional

medicinal herbs preparations.  They have a very short history of use, almost

no traditional backing (the use in our modern sense is 50-80 years old, not

more).  This is true for our good old ess oils like rosemary, lavender,

thyme etc.  Oils like manuka, canuka, and many others which are being

aggressively marketed (spell?) have an almost non-existent history of use,

and I apply to them the same precautions I would apply to any new drug.  We

do not now how safe and effective they are, nor we have traditional insights

as to how and how much to use of them.

Would you want to risk a sensitization for your 2 or 4-legged patients just

because an oil smells better?

I would not, especially because there doesn't seem to be a good risk/benefit

balance, and because there is plenty of good ess oils with wonderful smells

and good antibact activity and low tox (an example is Eucalyptus citriodora)

Anyway, if you want to use them, remember to use only freeshly distilled

ones: old ones do tend to develop sensitizing compounds.



All the best



Marco



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Manuka oil

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke2@uswest.net>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 05:33:10 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke2@uswest.net> :



> Sent to the herblist by Marco Valussi <marcobabi@libero.it> :

>

> ericoides), but I would never try them on my patients, for two main

reasons:

> unlike Melaleuca alternifolia, there is virtually no research on these

oils,

> and that little does not support the claims of similar anti-microbial

> benefits to tea-tree; if anything they seem less potent.  Secondly, they

are

> not widely used internationally in cosmetic products, therefore little

> practical and formal testing and little exposure to human skin. They may

> well be safe but who knows?



Thank you, Marco. That was sort of how I was leaning.  I would be very

hesitant to start using something that there is so little known about. And

the heavy marketing of this product is kind of a turn-off. I'd like to see

more objective, informational stuff about this oil, whereas every internet

search pulls up companies that are just trying to sell it. I think I'll

stick with the tried-and-true melaleuca for the present.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Manuka oil

From: awilloby@enternet.co.nz

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:50:53 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by awilloby@enternet.co.nz :



Hi All



From a Kiwi - a person who lives in New Zealand where tea tree 

(sometimes misspelled as ti tree) grows - and who uses manuka 

oil a lot:



Manuka is Leptospermum scoparium

Kanuka (similar to manuka) is Leptospermum (was Kunzea) 

ericoides



Manuka and kanuka are the Maori names of these plants.



Both are called tea tree because early European settlers made tea 

from their leaves.



Tea tree oil generally comes from Melaleuca alternifolia, grown in 

Australia.



As well as providing oil, manuka also provides manuka honey (via 

honeybees of course) some of which is 'active' in that it has 

antibiotic functions which are superior to those of 'normal' manuka 

honey and honey from other sources.  However, all honey is pretty 

effective.  The activity has been identified by scientific tests, but I 

do not know the actual constituents that make it more active.  

However, considerable research has been done on it by university 

researchers.



I use manuka oil in preference to tea tree oil because it is more 

effective and when used in higher concentrations, has less irritating 

effect.  Manuka oil is also added to cosmetics and soaps here.



Hope this helps a bit.



Cheers



Alan

Alan Willoughby

Outdoor Training & Assessment Services Ltd

PO Box 296, Tauranga, New Zealand

Phone/fax 64 7 5443087  Mobile 025 809 816

Website www.outdooreducation.co.nz



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: manuka oil

From: Astrid9787@aol.com

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:23:12 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by erica <astrid9787@aol.com> :



would you happen to know if it's the manuka that is actually a honey, not an oil, and used to treat all sorts of inflammations and irritations internally and externally???



thanks!

erica



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: A group.

From: "brosta" <brosta@supanet.com>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:30:40 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Julia M Brown <brosta@supanet.com> :



I wonder if you could tell me again how to subscribe to your A group, thank

you.

Julia (York U.K.)

"Make today the best you've ever had"



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: A group.

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 21:33:02 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"brosta" <brosta@supanet.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>I wonder if you could tell me again how to subscribe to your A group, thank

>you.



I'll just assume you mean the herb-2 list. 



Commands for the herb -list:

You can subscribe, unsubscribe, and set list options on the web. The URL

is: http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=herb



You can also write to lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu . Commands include:

     subscribe herb

     unsubscribe herb

     set herb digest

     set herb nomail

     set herb mail (this one resets both digest and nomail options)

     get herb hello (to get list rules and helpful hints)

(also available at http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/archives/herblist/rules.html )

     help (general Lyris commands)



Commands for the herb-2 -list:



You can subscribe, unsubscribe, and set list options on the web. The URL

is: http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=herb-2



You can also write to lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu . Commands include:

     subscribe herb-2

     unsubscribe herb-2

     set herb-2 nomail

     set herb-2 mail



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: honey

From: Veronica Honthaas <honthaas@bigsky.net>

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:45:17 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Veronica Honthaas <honthaas@bigsky.net> :



Speaking of honey...how does honey compare as a preservative in formulas

that normally call for glycerine. Could they be used interchangeably? Veronica



>As well as providing oil, manuka also provides manuka honey (via 

>honeybees of course) some of which is 'active' 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: honey

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 20:58:05 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Veronica Honthaas <honthaas@bigsky.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>>As well as providing oil, manuka also provides manuka honey (via 

>>honeybees of course) some of which is 'active' 

>

>Speaking of honey...how does honey compare as a preservative in formulas

>that normally call for glycerine. Could they be used interchangeably? Veronica



Honey is almost solid sugar. It will keep only as long as you don't dilute it.



Glycerine is an alcohol. It can be diluted somewhat, but not indefinitely.



So you can use honey as a preservative much like you'd use sugar,

and you can use glycerine as a preservative much like you'd use "normal" alcohol

(ethanol, EtOH),

except that glycerine isn't even one tenth as good as ethanol at getting out

most active constituents.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: honey

From: emunah@twelvetribes.com

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:36:25 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by emunah@twelvetribes.com :



We have found honey to be an excellent solvent (instead of alcohol)-

 and as a matter of fact have a few infused honey products- we had 

them tested a few years ago for potentcy and it was very 

encouraging. I like to make an echinacea honey loaded with roots 

(which for my personal use I just keep in there all winter long!) I just 

give my children a slice of the root when a cold is coming on- by 

the end of the winter the honey is pretty dark and very mouth-

tingling!



emunah



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: honey

From: Veronica Honthaas <honthaas@bigsky.net>

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:30:17 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Veronica Honthaas <honthaas@bigsky.net> :



Vey interesting.  Please tell what other herbs you have successfully

extracted with honey.  Veronica

>

>We have found honey to be an excellent solvent (instead of alcohol)-



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: honey

From: emunah@twelvetribes.com

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:49:15 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by emunah@twelvetribes.com :



We have sucessfully used Ginseng, Spearmint, Goldenseal, and 

my favorite, Ginger. I also made a personal blend of catnip and 

valerian for those wakeful nights when I didn't want to get up and 

"make something" - just plop a tablespoon in your mouth!



emunah



 

> Very interesting.  Please tell what other herbs you have successfully

> extracted with honey.  Veronica



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: honey

From: mango <j.kolling@chello.nl>

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:51:22 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by mango <j.kolling@chello.nl> :



Hi all,

Just how is this done ? How does one make an extraction of herbs with honey or

honey and vinagre ?



> We have sucessfully used Ginseng, Spearmint, Goldenseal, and

> my favorite, Ginger



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: honey

From: emunah@twelvetribes.com

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:45:34 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by emunah@twelvetribes.com :



We make it like a tincture- 1:5 using very dry whole slightly cut 

(not powdered) herb. (Or you can use powdered, just don't expect 

to get it out of there)  Cover completely. Sits about 6 weeks.   

Warm up slightly to decant. Put in very clean jars. That's it. : )



emunah



> Just how is this done ? How does one make an extraction of herbs with

> honey or honey and vinagre ?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: MENOPAUSE & THE HYPOTHALAMUS

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:55:26 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



I'd be curious to read people's reactions to this article:



http://www.drkoop.com/dyncon/article.asp?id=9268



In particular, I'm interested in ideas concerning perimenopausal

support.



Thanks,

May

--

If you're going through hell, keep going.

                         ---Sir Winston Churchill



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: extracts and tinctures

From: Melesana@aol.com

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:21:55 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Meg <melesana@aol.com> :



When I first started learning about using herbs, I was told that an extract 

is always 1:1, and a tincture is always 1:5 - the first number is herb, and 

the second number is medium, e. g. alcohol.  As I continue to learn, I find 

more sources disagreeing with that than agreeing.  



Are there commonly accepted definitions of extract and tincture?  Do they 

refer to dilution and/or method and/or medium?



Meg



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: extracts and tinctures

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com>

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:33:30 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Miikkali Leppihalme <leppihalme@quartal.com> :



Meg:

> Are there commonly accepted definitions of extract

> and tincture?  Do they refer to dilution and/or method

> and/or medium?



I think the Webster's dictionary is somewhat commonly accepted:



Extract



A decoction, solution, or infusion made by drawing out from any substance

that which gives it its essential and characteristic virtue; essence; as,

extract of beef; extract of dandelion; also, any substance so extracted, and

characteristic of that from which it is obtained; as, quinine is the most

important extract of Peruvian bark.



Tincture



A solution (commonly colored) of medicinal substance in alcohol, usually

more or less diluted; spirit containing medicinal substances in solution.



Note: According to the United States Pharmacop[oe]ia, the term tincture

(also called alcoholic tincture, and spirituous tincture) is reserved for

the alcoholic solutions of nonvolatile substances, alcoholic solutions of

volatile substances being called spirits.



Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, C 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.



-

M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Lichen Planus (repost)

From: "Elinor" <eratcliffe@optusnet.com.au>

Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 16:46:32 +1000

--------

Sent to the herblist by elinor <elinor@big.net.au> :



I am reposting, as nobody seems to have been able to give me a response.

This is quite important.  Has nobody else come across this before?



Thanks,



Elinor



I need some help on treating lichen planus.  I have searched the web

endlessly, but to no avail.  The only things that come to mind would be St

Johns for the nervous system, and something for the liver.  Stress is highly

indicated, the patient is approx. 50 years of age, female, smoker and coffee

drinker.



I have not heard of this before.



I would appreciate any input.



Many thanks,



Elinor



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lichen Planus (repost)

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 15:20:00 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 16:46:32 +1000 "Elinor" <eratcliffe@optusnet.com.au>

writes:

> Sent to the herblist by elinor <elinor@big.net.au> :

> I need some help on treating lichen planus.> I am reposting, as nobody

seems to have been able to give me a  response.

> This is quite important.  Has nobody else come across this before?

Thanks, Elinor



What is it?  Is there another name for it?

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lichen Planus (repost)

From: Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net>

Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 15:44:52 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



on 6/9/01 2:46 AM, Elinor at eratcliffe@optusnet.com.au wrote:

> I need some help on treating lichen planus.  I have searched the web

> endlessly, but to no avail.  The only things that come to mind would be St

> Johns for the nervous system, and something for the liver.  Stress is highly

> indicated, the patient is approx. 50 years of age, female, smoker and coffee

> drinker.



Try this website: http://www.lichenplanus.com/ It outlines the condition and

suggests homeopathic treatment. I was not familiar with this condition so i

did a little checking. There is a study linking lichen planus to liver

disease and Hepatitis B

 (see http://www.skindex.com/trends/quicksum/qsarchive/qs6.html) and also

linking it to stress. As far as i can tell, allopathic medicine doesn't seem

to know what to do about it other than cortisone or steroids. But with the

stress and the liver connections, it seems that it would make sense to deal

with the stress, cut out the caffeine, and above all start working on caring

for the liver. Has she had tests done to check out liver functions and rule

out Hepatitis?



hope this helps - bek

-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lichen Planus (repost)

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:15:49 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 16:46:32 +1000 "Elinor" <eratcliffe@optusnet.com.au>

writes: > Sent to the herblist by elinor <elinor@big.net.au> :>>> 

> I need some help on treating lichen planus.  I have searched the web

> endlessly, but to no avail. 



This website may not help you, but it was an eye-opener for me:

http://umm.drkoop.com/conditions/ency/article/000867.htm



and this was linked to the University of Maryland Medical School, which I

found on a search on lichen planus.

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lichen Planus (repost)

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:47:53 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



you can look up abstracts on Pub Med then go to a medical library and 

look at the articles



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed



it looks as though the medical info is connecting it to liver 

disorders as well as hepB vaccine.

sharon in tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: extract or tincture?

From: "B J Wyatt" <bjwyatt@accesstoledo.com>

Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 08:43:44 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Brenda J. Wyatt <bjwyatt@accesstoledo.com> :



This question recently came across a natural body care list I'm on, and I

thought I would post it here to get the answer(s) from folks in the know who

have been practicing much longer than I have:



>I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the difference is between an

herbal

>extract and a tincture of the same herb?



I am under the impression that there is no real difference, but I'm willing

to be educated!



Thanks,

Brenda



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: extract or tincture?

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke2@uswest.net>

Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 07:54:52 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke2@uswest.net> :



> >I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the difference is between an

> herbal

> >extract and a tincture of the same herb?

>

> I am under the impression that there is no real difference, but I'm

willing

> to be educated!

>

> Thanks,

> Brenda



My understanding was that there was no difference between an extract and a

tincture, but that there is such a thing as a fluidextract, which is a much

stronger (1:1) concentration than a "regular" extract.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: extract or tincture?

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:43:02 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



In a message dated 6/10/2001 8:39:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

bjwyatt@accesstoledo.com writes:



<< 

 >I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the difference is between an

 herbal

 >extract and a tincture of the same herb?

 

 I am under the impression that there is no real difference, but I'm willing

 to be educated!

  >>

The principal difference is one of semantic "legalities".   Here in the US, 

and I would suspect, in other parts of the world as well,  a "tincture" is 

something that has long been prepared by people that make medicines and there 

are a number of laws on the books from days well gone by that restrict their 

production, use and distribution.  Since the herbalist cannot "make 

medicine", "prescribe medicine" or "distribute medicine", but can make an 

"herbal extract" and can both suggest and distribute or sell nutritional 

supplements, we make a tincture quite the same way the eclectics did way back 

when and, to avoid running afoul of those that would nail us upside down on 

the village gate to serve as examples, we call them extracts.  The stuff is 

EXACTLY the same regardless of what it is called - its just doing the 

semantical thing to keep from getting in trouble.

hope this helps

peter 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: extract or tincture?

From: "JIM CALLAWAY" <twelco12@email.msn.com>

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:49:27 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by JIM CALLAWAY <twelco12@email.msn.com> :



 In a message dated 6/10/2001 8:39:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

 bjwyatt@accesstoledo.com writes:



< I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the difference is between an

< herbal extract and a tincture of the same herb?



 < I am under the impression that there is no real difference, but I'm

willing

 < to be educated!



I differentiate extract and tincture as follows:



A tincture is a herbal preparation made by soaking herb material in a

menstruum,

an extraction medium of ethanol,or water and ethanol, for a period of time

ranging from

2 weeks upward, then filtering and pressing out the liquid from the plant

material. I

sometimes refer to this as a simple tincture. It is one of the most basic

forms of herbal

preparation.



An extract implies that something more than simple tincturing has taken

place. This

could be using heat, percolation, Soxhlet extraction, concentration under

heat and/or vacuum,

separate processing of water and alcohol fractions followed by

recombination, steam

displacement, CO2 and other solvent extractions, alchemical separation,

purification and cohobation

with calcination of plant material to isolate and incorporate soluble salts,

and many more techniques

some of which can become quite involved.



The resulting product while prepared from the same species can have widely

varying properties,

applications, constituents and energetics.



The distinction has nothing to do with legalities or semantics but with

practical assessment of

the amount or degree of processing which has taken place. .



This is my personal guideline. I hope it helps. Thanks for your willingness

to be educated.



James Callaway Jr / Twelve Corners



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:: infused oil preservative question

From: "J Mission" <jmission@indy.net>

Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:38:53 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by jmission@indy.net :



Hi,



What is creosote or cresote?  How do you use it as a preservative?  Can it

be used in hand crafted lotions and other toiletries?  Does it have

heat/cold/other considerations for proper use?  What about allergy

considerations?  Where can it be obtained; at a health food store? via mail

order?  Thanks.  I'll go back to lurking now.



j



ps - this is the 4th attempt to send this message through.  What gives???



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Re:: infused oil preservative question

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke2@uswest.net>

Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:01:35 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke2@uswest.net> :



>

> What is creosote or cresote?  How do you use it as a preservative?  Can it

> be used in hand crafted lotions and other toiletries?  Does it have

> heat/cold/other considerations for proper use?  What about allergy

> considerations?  Where can it be obtained; at a health food store? via

mail

> order?  Thanks.  I'll go back to lurking now.

>



As far as I know, creosote is a petroleum product, a tarry substance used to

preserve wood. It's the black gummy stuff that's commonly found on railroad

ties and lower grade landscape timbers. It was my understanding that it's

toxic, and I don't think I would use it in herbal products.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: : infused oil preservative question

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:04:14 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"J Mission" <jmission@indy.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>What is creosote or cresote?  How do you use it as a preservative?  Can it

>be used in hand crafted lotions and other toiletries?  



Chaparral, Larrea tridentata (or other species), green twigs, dried. Infuse your

oil with them, then use that oil to infuse other herbs; or make a blend of oils

including a bit of infused chaparral oil; or make an oil with herbs including

chaparral.



It retards oxidation of fixed oils. It has its own possibly disagreeable smell,

so can't be used if you want a light hint of something rosy or lavendery.



>Does it have heat/cold/other considerations for proper use?  



No.



>What about allergy considerations?  



None, as far as I know.



>Where can it be obtained; at a health food store? via mail order?  



In the desert SW; it's the major plant over large areas. Other than that, I

expect most largish bulk herb houses will carry it.



>ps - this is the 4th attempt to send this message through.  What gives???



The mailing list software for this list rejects html and other fancy formats. It

also rejects all att*chments, all messages with too much quoted text, and a few

other things.



I really truly dislike html -coded posts to text-based mediums (email, usenet),

so I've gleefully blocked it where I can - ie. on this list.



Cheers

Henriette, listowner.



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lichen planus

From: Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:17:05 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu> :



I was curious about lichen planus too, so looked up some links. Here is one

link that is a dermatology info site, so fairly allopathic in viewpoint,

but also states that lichen planus is inflammatory and may also present as

an allergic reaction to medications that disappears when the meds are

discountinued. This description also indicates a link with HepC.

http://www.aad.org/pamphlets/lichen.html

Surely seems like the liver connection is big either way, and I would be

asking this person what prescription medications she is taking.   -SM



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: honey infusions

From: "Lise" <violetside@gotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:33:27 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Lise <violetside@gotmail.com> :



hello.

I am so pleased to hear what folks are using in honey infusions.  My

friends recently introduced me to "honegar" tinctures which use vinegar

and honey as the menstruum instead ov alcohol or glycerin.  It tastes

wonderful, like honey vinegar potatoe chips!  I know that the acetic acid

ov vinegar is excellent at extracting plant alkaloids.  I have used the

honey and vinegar mixture to extract my peganum harmala tinctures. This is

an herb I do not like to mix with alcohol because it is a MAO inhibitor. 

I would love to know more about how the honey is effective and which herbs

you like to use it with.

Thanks,

Lise

alaska



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: honey infusions

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:32:35 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Lise" <violetside@gotmail.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>ov vinegar is excellent at extracting plant alkaloids.  I have used the

>honey and vinegar mixture to extract my peganum harmala tinctures. This is

>an herb I do not like to mix with alcohol because it is a MAO inhibitor. 



I quite like my Peganum harmala tincture, made with fresh root and 95 % alcohol.

No MAO problems here.



The tincture is pretty, too.



And a honey-and-vinegar tincture is not a tincture, it's a honey-and-vinegar

extract. Because to me, a tincture is made with ethanol (or a blend of ethanol

and water, and possibly at most 5 % glycerin, to stop fragile alkaloids from

falling out), nothing else.



You ask, what of a glycerin tincture? That's a glycerite.



The olde definition of extract was that it's solid. Therefrom stems the need for

the term _fluid_ extract - this was a liquid, not a powder.

It used to be a percolated two-way tincture (usually) where the water fraction

had been boiled down to 1/10 (or so) of the volume of the alcohol fraction, and

the twain combined.



Both tinctures and extracts are exhaustively described in King's, online on my

site (see my .sig).



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: honey and herb

From: "Lise" <violetside@gotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:42:17 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Lise <violetside@gotmail.com> :



Thank you for letting us know which herbs you have used with honey.  I

also use ginseng in the recipe when I brew mead.  The ginseng and the

honey compliment each other so well, and drinking medicinal mead is so

soothing whether you are starting to feel under the weather or just need a

sweet dessert drink that is healthy.  The way that I am using the honey

and vinegar together is to make a tincture the same as you would with

alcohol, but substituting the vinegar for the alcohol.  After the herbs

have steeped for the number ov weeks you would leave a tincture to steep,

strain them, then combine this liquid with an equal amount ov honey.  This

preserves the vinegar and herb qualities, and makes the vinegar so yummy

that even children won't run away from it!



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Question about alcohol-based tinctures

From: Craige Roberts <craigeroberts@prodigy.net>

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:43:23 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by craige roberts <craigeroberts@prodigy.net> :



I recently spoke with an experienced herbalist and wild-crafter who told

me that he tinctures everything fresh 1:2 in ethanol, i.e. 95% alcohol. 

That's not what I was taught.  I generally follow the percentage alcohol

recommendations in Michael Moore's "Herbal Tinctures in Clinical

Practice" (3rd edition, available free on his website), and/or King's

American Dispensatory (1915) (the source for most or all of Moore's

recommendations).  E.g., for Leonurus cardiaca, Moore recommends that

fresh plant be tinctured 1:2 in 60% alcohol.  It's my understanding that

the percent alcohol reflects the percent of the plant's known

constituents that are extractable in alcohol, the remainder being only

water-extractable.  Does anyone have any comment on the wildcrafter's

practice of always using straight alcohol?  It's surely a lot easier on

the road than mixing the alcohol and water to percent, but does it make

the best tincture?



Further, do any of you have experience making both alcohol and water

extracts, boiling down the water and then combining?  Do you start by

tincturing in pure alcohol?  And how do you determine the amount of

herb/water to combine with a given amount of alcohol?  On the basis of

the desired end percentage of alcohol in a source like King's?  



Finally, specifically about plantago lanceolata:  King's recommends

putting the fresh juice in alcohol to preserve.  Herbalist & Alchemist

(nci) sells a tincture with the specs: "Fresh plantain leaf extract. .

.(1:2 25) in distilled water. 30-40% ethyl alcohol."    How do you

understand the H&A tincture to have been prepared; as recommended in

King's?  What's the "25" about?  I've heard that a wheat grass juicer is

good for juicing herbs.  Anyone have experience with using one, or

alternatives to suggest?



Thanks,

Craige Roberts

Health Strategies

Columbus, Ohio



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Question about alcohol-based tinctures

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:03:20 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Craige Roberts <craigeroberts@prodigy.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>I recently spoke with an experienced herbalist and wild-crafter who told

>me that he tinctures everything fresh 1:2 in ethanol, i.e. 95% alcohol. 

>That's not what I was taught.  I generally follow the percentage alcohol

>recommendations in Michael Moore's "Herbal Tinctures in Clinical

>Practice" (3rd edition, available free on his website), and/or King's

>American Dispensatory (1915) (the source for most or all of Moore's

>recommendations).



I don't think Michael has used one single source for his strength and dosage

info.



>  E.g., for Leonurus cardiaca, Moore recommends that

>fresh plant be tinctured 1:2 in 60% alcohol.



In the Materia Medica? Nope. That 60 % is for the 1:5 dried herb tincture. If

you check at the end of the booklet (under "Outline of Preparation Methods"),

you'll see that Michael says that fresh should be tinctured 1:2 95 %



You should have read that before starting to make your tinctures. The 95 % for

fresh is implied, not spelled out, in the plant entries.



(URL: http://www.chili.rt66.com/hrbmoore/HOMEPAGE , for those who don't know.)



>Further, do any of you have experience making both alcohol and water

>extracts, boiling down the water and then combining?  Do you start by

>tincturing in pure alcohol?  And how do you determine the amount of

>herb/water to combine with a given amount of alcohol?  On the basis of

>the desired end percentage of alcohol in a source like King's?  



You percolate with two different menstruums. Check Michael Moore's fluid extract

worksheet and other related papers on his site. There's also a short intro to

fluid extracts at the very end of the Materia Medica.



>Finally, specifically about plantago lanceolata:  King's recommends

>putting the fresh juice in alcohol to preserve.  Herbalist & Alchemist

>(nci) sells a tincture with the specs: "Fresh plantain leaf extract. .

>.(1:2 25) in distilled water. 30-40% ethyl alcohol."    How do you

>understand the H&A tincture to have been prepared



You can preserve plant juices two ways:

  1. Freeze them.

  2. Add alcohol to them. There are two ways to add alcohol:

     a. add 1 part 95 % alcohol to 9 parts plant juice, or

     b. add 1 part 40 % alcohol to 3 parts plant juice.



You'll have to ask H&A what they mean with 1:2 25 %, if they also say 30-40 %

EtOH on their label. Perhaps it's 1 part juice to two parts water, diluted

further by adding alcohol for storage? Shrug. Sounds fishy.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: fresh plant tinctures

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:04:53 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



         In the defense of Craige Roberts' post of the misunderstanding of 

M. Moore's directions on tincturing fresh herbs. I was in the same boat.  A 

10/15/00 downloaded copy of his "Outline and Preparation Methods" 

read:  "One part by weight of the fresh, chopped herb is steeped for 7-10 

days in two parts of all plant constituents that contain water, leaving 

only cellulose and dead tissue."  That was all that was said.

         The current Fresh plant tincture info at his site goes much 

further in. detail about what type of alcohol to use:



"FRESH PLANT TINCTURE One part by weight of the fresh, chopped herb is 

steeped for 7-10 days in two parts by volume of grain alcohol (190 proof or 

95% ethanol), and pressed or squeezed out. There is no reason to blend or 

shake this maceration; the tincture is formed passively as a result of 

dehydration. Ethanol draws out all plant constituents that contain water, 

leaving only cellulose and dead tissue behind."



D.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: fresh plant tinctures

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:23:11 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



polo@ccp.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>In the defense of Craige Roberts' post of the misunderstanding of 



I didn't mean to sound as harsh as all that.



>M. Moore's directions on tincturing fresh herbs. I was in the same boat.  A 

>10/15/00 downloaded copy of his "Outline and Preparation Methods" 

>read:  "One part by weight of the fresh, chopped herb is steeped for 7-10 

<snip>



The more detailed text you gave is in both the .pdf and .txt versions of the

Materia Medica, v.5. They've been on his site since - lessee - 10-Oct-1995. (You

can look behind the scenes on Michael's site. Just use directories without .html

files. Like this: http://chili.rt66.com/hrbmoore/ManualsMM/ )



I don't know where you found the file you downloaded last year, but if that was

the Materia Medica (and not one of the other manuals), then it's more than five

years old.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: fresh plant tinctures

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:51:46 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by GardenThyme~Lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



Hi everyone.

Well the herbs are growing great now, and I have several that are ready to

harvest.  My feverfew is blooming, and I'd like to make a tincture from it,

as it is so bitter it's hard to use otherwise.  Does anyone have some advise

on how much fresh feverfew to use to make the tincture? Should I use the

flowers only, or also the leaves.    I have both everclear  195 proof and 80

proof vodka.  Which would be better to use for the feverfew?



I'm making a lovely St. John's wort tincture.  I've only been able to

harvest about a handful of flowers per day, so I add that each day to a

quart of everclear (1 liter).  It is turning a wonderful shade of red, and I

think it is about ready.  The jar is nearly half full of flowers.  I

tintured this in 195 proof everclear, and now I'm wondering if I should

dilute this with water after it is tinctured, or leave it as is.  I have

used this in the past undiluted.  I know it has helped me with mild

depression, and I'm in the sun all the time with no "sun sensitivity" (the

reason the pharm. uses for advising against this herb).



Thanks for any and all advise.

Dee

"The Gardenthyme Lady"



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: fresh plant tinctures

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:08:02 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



My understand is with fresh plant tinctures, you should be using almost pure

ethanol (190 proof - 95% - I don't think they make it any stronger than

that). Because fresh plants have such a high water content, you don't need

any additional water. I think we just had a discussion about this a week or



so ago.



I believe with feverfew it's best to use the aerial parts, not just the

flowers.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Trowel

From: keith hubbard <keithhubb@yahoo.com>

Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 21:58:58 -0700 (PDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by keith hubbard <keithhubb@yahoo.com> :



hi



Does anyone out there know where I can get a fold up

trowel for back packing, wildcrafting. 



Keith



Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.

http://buzz.yahoo.com/



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Trowel

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:46:28 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>Sent to the herblist by keith hubbard <keithhubb@yahoo.com> :

>

>hi

>

>Does anyone out there know where I can get a fold up

>trowel for back packing, wildcrafting.

>

>Keith



How about army surplus store. I carry with us one small fold up 

shovel in the truck it helps a bit with digging but I prefer using a 

stick, have been using a mid-length pry bar you just stick it in the 

ground and pivot round it loosens the dirt so you don't break the 

root/

Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Trowel

From: Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:54:03 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



 

>> Sent to the herblist by keith hubbard <keithhubb@yahoo.com> :

>> 

>> hi

>> 

>> Does anyone out there know where I can get a fold up

>> trowel for back packing, wildcrafting.

>> 

>> Keith



Sierra Trading Co. and Campmore (both have websites online if you do a

search) carry them and usually have good prices.



:) bek



-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Trowel

From: Cha123chi@aol.com

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:13:24 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by cha123chi@aol.com :



In a message dated 01-06-19 02:24:53 EDT, you write:



>Does anyone out there know where I can get a fold up

>trowel for back packing, wildcrafting. 

>

>Keith



Hi, Keith



July 2001 Sunset Magazine (www.sunset.com) features an article titled "Trowel 

savvy", which includes the following:



"folding stainless steel trowel comes with a leather belt pourch ($27, Smith 

& Hawken)."



Susi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Rambling

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:42:38 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



The fireweed (Epilobium angustifolium) is beautiful right now, precisely the

size for picking, and no bug bites yet. 



I pick that one all green, no flowers, no buds. It's very fast in getting the

flowers to go to seed, and if you picked it with a flower or two it'll get there

even if you didn't even think so. So, if you do dry it, you'll have lots of

fluff flying about, when you pull the dried leaf off the stem. That fluff'll get

into your nose and mouth - I've only picked it in flower once, but that was once

too often. I had to open all windows and doors, and vacuum, and while I did put

the dried herb into the jar, I noticed that the fluff was ready to jump out and

about every time I wanted to get some of it ... so I discarded that, then. This

now is just beautiful. About half of my Epilobium pickings from this spring are

bone dry and in their jars (picked 2-3 weeks ago), half are still hanging

(picked a bit over a week ago).



The deadnettle (Lamium album) has been in full flower for the last two weeks, so

I've bundled that one, too, and hung it to dry over a line in a shady spot,

indoors. It's pretty pretty, and it's a weed in my garden. I usually pull it

from under the hyssop and between the various Mentha species it likes to invade,

but as it's a good medicinal plant I've reserved a spot (about 2'x2') where it

can grow in peace. Pretty pretty.



They all dry much faster if they have room on that line than if I have to dry

them hanging off doorknobs, chair's backs and the like.



The bistort (Bistorta major, Polygonum bistorta) is in full flower, as is the

Leuzea (Leuzea rhaponticum, Rhaponticum carthamoides). Pretty pretty, except

that if it doesn't get a bit drier (we've had _lots_ of rain) it's good-bye to

the seeds in the Leuzea flowerheads. They'll just rot or mold away, like last

year. The seeds can be used like the root, _and_ there's a bit of olde Russian

(actually, Soviet Union) research that says it keeps alcoholics dry.



And the ox-eye daisy has opened its first flowers. I'll wait for a bit before I

pick it, it's so very pretty.



On other fronts, I just gave back the correction sheets for my second book (in

Finnish, sorry), it's going to be as good as the first one, if somewhat thinner.

And I'm busy scanning some of the pics I took in Japan a bit over a month ago.

Perhaps I'll get them online this month, perhaps not; they're gorgeous, so if

you see another note saying something like "400 new pics" on my homepage, go see

what's up.



Happy midsummer to all

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Rambling

From: "Joanie MacPhee" <macphee@net1plus.com>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:44:44 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by macphee@net1plus.com :



Henriette, is your first book in Finnish translated to English anywhere and

in print?

If not, I assume all the plants are identified with the Latin names?

I have played with the idea of learning Finnish for many years (my mother

would not teach me as it was the language she used to tell all her

girlfriends her secrets) and classes are given in the Finnish community

center 5 miles from me.  My son intends to learn the language, so...perhaps

I would do it in order to be able to read your book.  Unless there was a

lazy woman's way...like a translation.



I do not think I have ever come across a collection of Japanese wildflower

images.  I am jumping to the conclusion that your Japanese images are of

wildflowers.  Maybe not.



The only place around me where Fireweed grows freely is in an area a few

towns west of me where Finns have settled.  I am sure it is coincidental.

But maybe not.  All the other local areas I once knew of have long ago been

covered over and landscaped.  Oh well.  Gotta run now...Happy midsummer to

you, too.   Joanie

~~~



>The fireweed (Epilobium angustifolium) is beautiful right now, precisely

the

>size for picking, and no bug bites yet.

<>

>On other fronts, I just gave back the correction sheets for my second book

(in

>Finnish, sorry), it's going to be as good as the first one, if somewhat

thinner.

>And I'm busy scanning some of the pics I took in Japan a bit over a month

ago.

>Perhaps I'll get them online this month, perhaps not; they're gorgeous, so

if

>you see another note saying something like "400 new pics" on my homepage,

go see

>what's up.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Rambling

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:37:13 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Joanie MacPhee" <macphee@net1plus.com> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>I do not think I have ever come across a collection of Japanese wildflower

>images.  I am jumping to the conclusion that your Japanese images are of

>wildflowers.  Maybe not.



Nah, there's some wildflowers (like, for instance, white (yep) dandelion), but

mostly I just visited botanical gardens and arboretums.



>The only place around me where Fireweed grows freely is in an area a few

>towns west of me where Finns have settled.  I am sure it is coincidental.

>But maybe not.  All the other local areas I once knew of have long ago been

>covered over and landscaped.  



Fireweed likes lots of light. It'll take over after a fire, or after you've

logged the woods, but it'll disappear again as first the raspberries and then

the birches take over (over here, that is). Except that it's found pretty

reliably along the edges of meadows and forests.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Rambling

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:06:56 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Henriette Kress wrote:



> The deadnettle (Lamium album) has been in full flower for the last two weeks, so

> I've bundled that one, too, and hung it to dry over a line in a shady spot,

> indoors. It's pretty pretty, and it's a weed in my garden. I usually pull it

> from under the hyssop and between the various Mentha species it likes to invade,

> but as it's a good medicinal plant I've reserved a spot (about 2'x2') where it

> can grow in peace. Pretty pretty.



Hi Henriette,



What do you use dead nettle for (medicinally)?



Thanks,

May

--

Heaven walks among us ordinarily muffled in such triple or tenfold disguises that

the wisest are deceived and no one suspects the days to be gods.   ---Ralph Waldo

Emerson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Rambling

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:35:33 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



May Terry <mterry@snet.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>What do you use dead nettle for (medicinally)?



I use it internally (tea) and externally (pessaries, sitzbath) for vaginal

problems, but it's also a decent general anti-inflammatory. Other mint-family

anti-inflammatories (MFAI) taste better, of course.



Pick it in flower, hang it up to dry. Snip into bits when the stem doesn't bend

anymore, or just crush it into that jar.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Mole/skin problems

From: Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:38:55 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com> :



I have a small mole on my foreheard that recently decided to become infected with a

zit.  Just great, huh?



(This is gross, I beg your pardon, but...)  Since it was slightly to the side I tried

removing it(the zit, not the mole) but it didn't work.



I've since been applying tea tree oil.  I once heard it would cure a pimple in around

three days.  Correct?



What else can I do besides that?  My dermatologist appt. won't be happening for a

couple of weeks yet.



Thanks for any help!



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Mole/skin problems

From: "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:20:44 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by poutinen, jay <jpoutine@uwsp.edu> :



Call your dermatologist and tell him or her that you have a change in a

mole, and you would like to get in now.



-----Original Message-----

From: Jeanette Johnson [mailto:rej@cpinternet.com]

Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 9:39 AM

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Mole/skin problems



Sent to the herblist by Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com> :



I have a small mole on my foreheard that recently decided to become infected

with a

zit.  Just great, huh?



What else can I do besides that?  My dermatologist appt. won't be happening

for a

couple of weeks yet.



Thanks for any help!



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mole/skin problems

From: Lee Ann Petropoulos <lapetropoulos@yahoo.com>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:09:16 -0700 (PDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Lee Ann Petropoulos <lapetropoulos@yahoo.com> :



> 



Hi Jeannette!



> I've since been applying tea tree oil.  I once heard

> it would cure a pimple in around

> three days.  Correct?

> 

I have had great success with tea tree oil when

applied at the first sign of a pimple, but it seems

that if you mess with it or wait too long, the success

rate plummets.  Just be sure it's a pimple and not a

mole change.



Lee Ann



Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.

http://buzz.yahoo.com/



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mole/skin problems

From: Emily Brunson <janissa@odsy.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:27:52 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Emily Brunson <janissa@odsy.net> :



There really isn't anything you can do except call your doctor's office and 

try to move up your appt.  DO NOT fiddle with it.  Collect as much 

information as you can remember now regarding when the mole changed, what 

sorts of changes they were, and any home remedies you have tried.  It will 

help if you talk to one of your doctor's nurses and need to give them this 

kind of information.



Again: DO NOT try to pop it or otherwise mess with it.  But DO try to get 

in earlier at your derm.  It may well be nothing but a bit of infection 

that just happens to be near the mole.  But until you know via biopsy 

exactly what it is, it's important to just leave it alone.  If it's 

unsightly, you can put a small bandaid over it if needed (out in public).



When you visit your derm, make sure that if he does a biopsy, he does a 

punch biopsy and NOT a shave biopsy.  Not all dermatologists are as 

familiar with the various skin cancers as others, and s/he may just want to 

slice a bit from the surface.  Wrong.  Make sure to insist on a punch biopsy.



Best wishes,

Em



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mole/skin problems

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:15:57 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:38:55 -0500 Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com>

writes:

> Sent to the herblist by Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com> :

> 

> I have a small mole on my foreheard that recently decided to become 

> infected with a zit.  ... I tried removing it(the zit, not the mole)

but it didn't work. I've since been applying tea tree oil.  I once heard

it would cure a 

> pimple in around  three days.  Correct? What else can I do besides

that?...



 

I am wondering if an "encapsulation" with a chalky or powdery substance,

maybe a paste held in place under a gauze pad with some kind of adhesive

tape.   How to make the paste?  I would use a chalky creme like Aveeno

anti-itch in the tube (nci) calamine with oatmeal and camphor or Acnomel

(sulfur/ resorcinal) or take a small amount of carrier oil and smidges of

vitamin E oil and an antiseptic Essential Oil like thyme or oregano and

add a tiny amount of flowers of sulfur and make sure it is very well

blended in so that nothing melts down and gets into your eyes (

frightening! I know from experience.)  Or maybe you can get a powdery

substance from your healthfood store and blend in your tea tree oil with

a smidge of lavender and oregano EO's, maybe powdered whole leaf aloe

removed from about 6 capsules to about 1 tsp of mix.  Hopefully, it would

lead to a draw-dry-trap situation, and the zit would crust and fall off

some time soon.   Maybe Elliot has something better.

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Menopause

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:44:48 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Hi folks,



I'm 49.5 years old, and have been dealing with perimenopausal symptoms

for several years.  My period had become quite heavy, and I was trying

to deal with that problem by using Vitex during the luteal phase of my

cycle.  This month, for the first time, I seemed to have actually

skipped the period.  I'm not sure what to do now (by the way, I am *not*

pregnant).  I've added black cohosh and cut the Vitex in half at this

point (for whatever reason, the label on the Vitex says to take for a

couple months then cut the dosage in half).  I'm not experiencing any

menopausal type symptoms at all other than a little emotional lability.

I'm sure my attitude helps--I'm very happy to be croning %^)  Does

anyone have any suggestions for me at this point?



Thanks,

May

--

Heaven walks among us ordinarily muffled in such triple or tenfold

disguises that the wisest are deceived and no one suspects the days to

be gods.   ---Ralph Waldo Emerson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:07:28 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Linda Shipley <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com> :



May,

I had trouble with my period time before last where I was passing clots and 

going real heavy, which is strange for me. It really scared me. I used my 

cramp bark tincture since that is all I had. Also I put my feet up and used 

a cold pack. It seemed to help. My books say it tones the uterus also. I am 

also in premenopause. I was afraid I was going to really need some emergency 

surgery or something. My periods have really slacked off until that.

Linda S.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:52:45 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Linda Shipley wrote:



> May,

> I had trouble with my period time before last where I was passing clots and

> going real heavy, which is strange for me. It really scared me. I used my

> cramp bark tincture since that is all I had. Also I put my feet up and used

> a cold pack. It seemed to help. My books say it tones the uterus also. I am

> also in premenopause. I was afraid I was going to really need some emergency

> surgery or something. My periods have really slacked off until that.



Thanks, Linda, for responding.  My cycle turned out to be 50 days--almost

skipped a full cycle.  Bleeding is heavy, as it has been for many months.  Vitex

has not helped, and I've added black cohosh.  I have no other symptoms of

perimenopause, though I *used* to have a lot of hot flashes.  I guess I'll read

up in Rosemary Gladstar and Susun Weed and try to get some ideas to make this

transition smoother.



May

--

Dance in the moment.  Reach down and pull up song.  Spin and chant and forget

the sorrow that we are flesh on bone.  ---Egyptian Book of the Dead



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:00:15 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Linda Shipley <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com> :



May,

I was reading that false unicorn was a good uterine toner. Hope this helps.

Linda



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:04:41 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



In a message dated 6/26/01 8:52:59 PM, mterry@snet.net writes:



<< Thanks, Linda, for responding.  My cycle turned out to be 50 days--almost

skipped a full cycle.  Bleeding is heavy, as it has been for many months.  

Vitex

has not helped, and I've added black cohosh.  I have no other symptoms of

perimenopause, though I *used* to have a lot of hot flashes.  I guess I'll 

read

up in Rosemary Gladstar and Susun Weed and try to get some ideas to make this

transition smoother.

 >>



Hi May,

those cycles - getting longer between but shorter in length - are wonderfully 

part of perimenopause.  So are cycles that come closer together....just about 

anything comes.  But the cycles that you are describing are part and parcel 

of too much estrogen to progesterone.  what happens is that the estrogen 

keeps sending signals to build up the lining of the uterus each and every 

month, but the progesterone isn't produced enough to make for a decent bleed. 

 Then finally, one month, all heck breaks loose and you get a 'purging' kind o

f bleed with clots and the like.  I've had real good success with vitex. But 

all the lit says to take it for an extended period of time, in some women, 

before it works.  False unicorn is supposed to be great too.  You might want 

to try something like evening primrose to offset the increased estrogen.  B6 

is important for progesterone production.  I know there's probably a few 

things I haven't included, but hope this helps.

phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:58:14 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:



> Hi May,

> those cycles - getting longer between but shorter in length - are wonderfully

> part of perimenopause.  So are cycles that come closer together....just about

> anything comes.  But the cycles that you are describing are part and parcel

> of too much estrogen to progesterone.  what happens is that the estrogen

> keeps sending signals to build up the lining of the uterus each and every

> month, but the progesterone isn't produced enough to make for a decent bleed.

>  Then finally, one month, all heck breaks loose and you get a 'purging' kind o

> f bleed with clots and the like.  I've had real good success with vitex. But

> all the lit says to take it for an extended period of time, in some women,

> before it works.  False unicorn is supposed to be great too.  You might want

> to try something like evening primrose to offset the increased estrogen.  B6

> is important for progesterone production.  I know there's probably a few

> things I haven't included, but hope this helps.

> phebe



Thanks--I think I will try the EPO.  Does anyone have any opinions as to whether

or not the black cohosh might be doing more harm than good in these circumstances?



May

--

Dance in the moment.  Reach down and pull up song.  Spin and chant and forget the

sorrow that we are flesh on bone.  ---Egyptian Book of the Dead



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:25:54 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>May, my best recommendation would be to get from the library or buy 

>a couple of the books written by herbalist on the subject. I really 

>like Susun Weed's menopause book- she presents a list of things to 

>do starting with nothing on one end going throught differend self 

>help things up to the bigger medical interventions on any give 

>problem from hot flashes, fibroids, flooding...   There is also a 

>good book out written by Amanda McQuade Crawford  and there are some 

>applicable things in Rosemary Galdstar's book for women as well.  I 

>could probably make a small list  of things to do myself but really 

>the best help would be to put the knowledge in your hands and let 

>you find the best solutions for you.



Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: Lee Ann Petropoulos <lapetropoulos@yahoo.com>

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:42:46 -0700 (PDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Lee Ann Petropoulos <lapetropoulos@yahoo.com> :



--- May Terry <mterry@snet.net> wrote:

> Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

> :

> 

> Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:

> 

> > Hi May,

> > those cycles - getting longer between but shorter

> in length - are wonderfully

> > part of perimenopause.  So are cycles that come

> closer together....just about

> > anything comes.  But the cycles that you are

> describing are part and parcel

> > of too much estrogen to progesterone.  



Dear May,



May I suggest you read "What Your Doctor May Not Tell

You About Menopause" by Dr. John Lee?  In that book he

recommends a natural progesterone cream (along with

eliminating sources of xenoestrogens [synthetic

estrogen mimics]) to help bring the hormones into

balance.  I have no personal experience with this

product so would not presume to recommend it, but the

book certainly gives food for thought.

  



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http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:33:09 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Lee Ann Petropoulos wrote:



> Dear May,

>

> May I suggest you read "What Your Doctor May Not Tell

> You About Menopause" by Dr. John Lee?  In that book he

> recommends a natural progesterone cream (along with

> eliminating sources of xenoestrogens [synthetic

> estrogen mimics]) to help bring the hormones into

> balance.  I have no personal experience with this

> product so would not presume to recommend it, but the

> book certainly gives food for thought.



Thanks, Lee Ann--I'll check it out.  These progesterone creams have been

discussed on this list before, no?  I believe they're a bit controversial.  But

I will check out the book.



May

--

Dance in the moment.  Reach down and pull up song.  Spin and chant and forget

the sorrow that we are flesh on bone.  ---Egyptian Book of the Dead



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Menopause

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:52:10 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



In a message dated 6/27/01 7:59:38 AM, mterry@snet.net writes:



<< the black cohosh might be doing more harm than good in these circumstances?

 >>



I've had an ob/gyn tell me that (and she is into herbs) that her ladies that 

go on the black cohosh almost always bleed - in between,too long, whatever.

just a thought

phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Some info on St. John's Wort

From: Jim <waldpond@interbaun.com>

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 18:57:25 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jim <waldpond@interbaun.com> :



This short blurb may be of interest to those that regard St. John's Wort as a

good herb to use internally over long periods, especially if other herbs, etc.

are used.



<http://www.sciam.com/news/061801/2.html>http://www.sciam.com/news/061801/2.html



The main observation is

"a constituent of St. John's wort, hyperforin, binds to PXR and turns on

       CYP3A4, which then breaks down lots of compounds in the liver "



Jim 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Some info on St. John's Wort

From: "Stephen Pointer" <stephen.pointer@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:30:58 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Stephen Pointer <stephen.pointer@zoom.co.uk> :



Does anybody have any experience of using SJW to help women clean their

system when coming off birth control pills? : Does it combine well with

other herbs to balance the hormones.



Kind Regards

Steve P



>

> This short blurb may be of interest to those that regard St. John's Wort

as a

> good herb to use internally over long periods, especially if other herbs,

etc.

> are used.

>

>

<http://www.sciam.com/news/061801/2.html>http://www.sciam.com/news/061801/2.

html

>

> The main observation is

> "a constituent of St. John's wort, hyperforin, binds to PXR and turns on

>        CYP3A4, which then breaks down lots of compounds in the liver "

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Some info on St. John's Wort

From: "Sharon  Herr, RD" <sherr@NYCAP.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:15:22 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Herr, RD <sherr@NYCAP.rr.com> :



The full-text journal article showing that SJW induces CYP3A4, via PXR (St.

John's wort induces hepatic drug metabolism through activation of the

pregnane X receptor), can be seen at

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/13/7500



SJW has not been shown to decrease the effectiveness of oral contraceptives.

There have only been case reports of intermenstrual bleeding .  I have not

seen any reports of pregnancies resulting from SJW use.  I have a summary of

research for the interactions between drugs and SJW on my website.

List of drugs that have interacted or potentially interact with SJW

http://www.onlinerd.com/herb/page9.html.

Summary of research  http://www.onlinerd.com/herb/page13.html

References   http://www.onlinerd.com/herb/page10.html

The files are available in PDF format at

http://www.onlinerd.com/herb/page4.html



Sharon Herr



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Gout in hand

From: "Sarah Head" <sarah@headology.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:07:42 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sarah J Head <sarah@headology.co.uk> :



My husband has just developed a swollen first knuckle in his right hand

which is painful and won't let him flex the finger properly. The doctor has

diagnosed gout and given him a week's supply of 25mg of indomethacin 3x a

day.



David Hoffman suggests a tea made up of burdock root, celery seed and yarrow

for several months. I have burdock root tincture and dried yarrow to hand.

Can I start this straight away or should I wait until after he has finished

the course of indomethacin?



I should add that he is 45, in good health, but totally stressed out at the

moment due to managing the move of 2000 computers from 1 office to another 6

miles away during this month.



Many thanks for your advice



Sarah



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Gout in hand

From: lisa@nettales.com

Date: 20 Jun 2001 12:21:44 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by lisa@nettales.com :



There is a tea that I made for my ex-hubby and ex-FIL that works wonderfully. 

 

1/4 oz valerian 

1/4 oz skullcap 

1/2 oz yarrow flowers 

1/2 oz nettles	

 

1 tsp 4x per day in 8 oz water. Cut out ALL red meat, legumes, sugars, alcoholic 

drinks until attack is finished. 

 

Can also do charcoal tablets 4 times per day, if needed. They've never needed it 

though. 

 

They claim relief from pain within 15 minutes and attack ends in just a few days. 

Have never had to go longer than 4 days. 

 

Lisa Coleman 

 



On Wed, 20 June 2001, "Sarah Head" wrote:



> 

> Sent to the herblist by Sarah J Head <sarah@headology.co.uk> :

> 

> My husband has just developed a swollen first knuckle in his right hand

> which is painful and won't let him flex the finger properly. The doctor has

> diagnosed gout and given him a week's supply of 25mg of indomethacin 3x a

> day.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: gout in hand

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:14:59 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by elfreem@aol.com :



>  David Hoffman suggests a tea made up of burdock root, celery seed and 

yarrow

>  for several months. I have burdock root tincture and dried yarrow to hand.

>  Can I start this straight away or should I wait until after he has finished

>  the course of indomethacin?



It may be of interest to know that James Duke (Green Pharmacy) has gout 

and has used celery seed extract, celery seeds, and celery stalks ...and was 

able to eliminate taking allopurinol completely. For an acute attack, he 

has used Cat's Claw at high doses (12 pills).



Whatever herb are decided on, they can be taken along with indomethacin,

but indomethacin should be eliminated as soon as possible. If you can,

get a prescription for allopurinol, which decreases uric acid levels,

and if another gout attack occurs get it filled at a pharmacy. Indomethacin 

is an antiinflammatory agent and does not significantly affect uric acid 

levels.

Hopefully, taking celery extract or a combination of herbs in a tea every day

will eliminate the need for allopurinol or indomethacin. Good luck.



Elliot



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Echinacea Purpurea

From: rdrndstrm@webtv.net

Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:44:26 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by rdrndstrm@webtv.net :



Is echinacea contraindicated for diabetes type 2 and / or hypoglycemia?

Thank you very much for any info! Rider



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Yellow Leaves on Basil

From: Dawn Loughborough <dawn_loughborough@yahoo.com>

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:43:12 -0700 (PDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by dawn loughborough <dawn_loughborough@yahoo.com> :



I am a grower in northwest Indiana. Has anyone

experienced a problem with parts of leaves going

yellow on basil leaves?  I would be curious to

understand the cause. It has been cool here for the

basil this spring, and my plants are outside. Any

organic ideas for remedying the situation?  I visited

another local farm that was experiencing the same

problem.



Thanks.

Dawn



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http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Yellow Leaves on Basil

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:17:14 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by dawn loughborough 

> <dawn_loughborough@yahoo.com> :

> 

> I am a grower in northwest Indiana. Has anyone

> experienced a problem with parts of leaves going

> yellow on basil leaves?   Dawn



Do you use lime or epsom salts in your garden patch?  You might need one

or the other. Litmus-type testing for acids and bases would give you an

idea which you need.

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Yellow Leaves on Basil

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:59:08 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by GardenThyme~Lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



They hate cool weather (50 degrees or less), and it's been unseasonable cool

in Indiana lately (I'm in central Indiana, near Terre Haute).  Actually,

it's strange, it is burning hot, then so cool you need a jacket.  My basil

are finally taking off, I lost several due to the heavy rains we had about a

month ago.  Go ahead and  pick off the yellowed leaves.  More will grow, as

long as you don't let your basil go to seed.  Keep them pinched back and

they will bush out nicely.



Dee

"The Gardenthyme Lady"



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: One thank you to all

From: "Renee" <rja86@webtv.net>

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:07:01 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Renee <rja86@webtv.net> :



Hi,

I justed wanted to thank everyone so much for their great replies to my

post regarding my husband's irregular heartbeat several months ago.  He

quit coffee and after two weeks, has had no more problems.  I thank you

again and take good care.

Renee



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: hawthorn- when to avoid?

From: "NIAMH MCGINLEY" <niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:29:10 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Niamh <Niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk> :



> Sent to the herblist by Christa-Maria <cmaria@triton.net> :



> As it turned out, I have a slow heart rate, low bloodpressure and

> hawthorn would not be good for this heart condition.

> For some reason there are also a lot of legends in regards to hawthorn

> to warn of it's use and only very few medicine people will use it



Christa, Henriette, all,



I am very interested in this as I read it before.



Priest mentions not using it when systolic pressure is low.



Is crataegus contraindicated in patients with a slow pulse coupled with very

high blood pressure? And if so, Why?



I am trying to get to grips with what exactly is going on with such symptom

pictures.



Is it that the heart is "emptying" too forcefully with each stroke and this

is why building (for want of a better word) the heart muscle is not good? Is

it coupled with inelastic arteries causing the high BP? Is there poor venous

return? Sorry to confuse the 2 different symptom pictures here.



I recently met an aged man with dangerously high BP and cholesterol and a

pulse rate in the 50's taking loads of crataegus for months with no

improvement, and otherwise doing all the right things. A stroke volunteer.



Sorry if this has been covered already, haven't got thru all the mail yet.

Please will someone explain a) how low pulse/highBP comes about, and b) why

crataegus doesn't help (hinders?).



It's all very confusing.



Ta,

Niamh



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: hawthorn- when to avoid?

From: "Steve & Christine Wilson" <scwilson@bigpond.net.au>

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 22:14:04 +1000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Christine <scwilson@bigpond.net.au> :



.



> I recently met an aged man with dangerously high BP and cholesterol and a

> pulse rate in the 50's taking loads of crataegus for months with no

> improvement, and otherwise doing all the right things. A stroke volunteer.

>

> Sorry if this has been covered already, haven't got thru all the mail yet.

> Please will someone explain a) how low pulse/highBP comes about, and b)

why

> crataegus doesn't help (hinders?).

>

> It's all very confusing.

>

Hypertension stimulates baroreceptors in the carotid sinus, aorta and

cerebral vessels.  This causes the parasympathetic nervous system to be

stimulated, which attempts to restore the BP back to normal.  The heart rate

decreases there by resulting in slow pulse . simplified version of events.



I have seen this happen a few times in the hospital that I work in with

spinal paitents . Its called hypereflexia

and can happen to patients who have an injury above T6 .



As far a the hawthorn goes maybe someone else in the group can elaborate .

with more experince on the herbs .



Rgds Chris



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: passiflora

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 20:14:21 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



would anyone like to share their opinions and personal experiences on

passiflora?

it is not a herb i have ever used, and i am reading about it in Ellingwood.

he describes it as useful in



"wakefulness, disturbed sleep from mental worry"



i have someone in mind for it who has really really restless sleep and

nightmares, feeling unrested much of the time. this is due largely to

stress, overwork and being tortured in the past.



glad to hear all your thoughts



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: passiflora

From: Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:14:17 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



on 6/28/01 11:14 PM, LJS Doody at ldoody@internetcds.com wrote:

> would anyone like to share their opinions and personal experiences on

> passiflora?



i often add it to tea mixtures for sleeping.  i really like the combo of

lemon balm, passionflower, oatstraw and scullcap.



> i have someone in mind for it who has really really restless sleep and

> nightmares, feeling unrested much of the time. this is due largely to

> stress, overwork and being tortured in the past.



ever think about flower essences? (i'm assuming a good therapist is involved

in here somewhere - that's some intense stuff!) the flower essences can be

extremely helpful for emotional issues.



in peace - bek

-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: passiflora

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 03:14:38 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



I have experience with Passiflora incarnata dried herb dating to 1996, was not

impressed, though somebody else might possibly get better results.  I bought

bulk herb from Frontier (nci) at a health food store.  But when I lived in

Atlanta GA, I remember finding Passiflora incarnata growing in a very few places

along the roadside, and the ripe fruits were aromatic and very flavorful but

very seedy; skin in not edible.  As of my latest information, this passiflora is

the state flower of Tennessee.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: passiflora

From: "JIM CALLAWAY" <twelco12@email.msn.com>

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:00:26 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by JIM CALLAWAY <twelco12@email.msn.com> :



Passiflora incarnata does not come to impress but to gently calm and ground

us.

It is a wonderful addition to formulas for sleep and tranquilization.



Dried herb purchased from a bulk bin in a health food store is a poor

representative

of any of our herbal allies. Passionflower extract from the fresh tips of

the vine, with

a few flowers thrown in for good measure, is the way we do it here in

Tennessee

where it is abundant in fields in late summer. Many have had excellent

results with this

preparation.



Deep Peace - James Callaway / Twelve Corners / Franklin, Tennessee



>

> I have experience with Passiflora incarnata dried herb dating to 1996, was

not

> impressed, though somebody else might possibly get better results.  I

bought

> bulk herb from Frontier (nci) at a health food store.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: black-eyed susan (Rudbeckia hirta)

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:58:04 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



      It has come to my attention of late that the Black-eyed Susan 

(Rudbeckia Hirta) may have medicinal properties equal to if not surpassing 

the purple coneflower (echinacea). Does anyone out there have thoughts on 

this plant? Most of my herbals seem to have ignored it.



Doug  A.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: black-eyed susan (Rudbeckia hirta)

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:02:40 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



polo@ccp.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>      It has come to my attention of late that the Black-eyed Susan 

>(Rudbeckia Hirta) may have medicinal properties equal to if not surpassing 

>the purple coneflower (echinacea). Does anyone out there have thoughts on 

>this plant? Most of my herbals seem to have ignored it.



Rudbeckia hirta and R. laciniata: 

Aboveground parts: urinary tract anti-inflammatories. This is mentioned in

King's (under Echinacea: relates species). (online on my site; see my .sig.)

Root: use it like you would use the root of Echinacea.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: black-eyed susan (Rudbeckia hirta)

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:02:50 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Henriette Kress wrote:



> Root: use it like you would use the root of Echinacea.



Is it as effective as Echinacea for infections?



Thanks,

May

--

I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for

it.   ---Abraham Lincoln



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: List commands

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:38:39 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



This is just a friendly reminder.



Remember, commands should go to the listserver, _not_ to the list.



You can subscribe, unsubscribe, and set list options on the web. The URL

is: http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=herb



You can also write to lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu . Commands include:

     subscribe herb

     unsubscribe herb

     set herb digest

     set herb nomail

     set herb mail (this one resets both digest and nomail options)

     get herb hello (to get list rules and helpful hints)

(also available at http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/archives/herblist/rules.html )

     help (general Lyris commands)



Cheers

Henriette, listowner, herblist.



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Low Blood Pressure!

From: "Florin Dima" <florind@geniusnet.ro>

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:07:39 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Florin Dima <florind@geniusnet.ro> :



Hi!

I saw on the list a lot of talking about high blood pressure but there is

any herbal treatment for low or fluctuant blood pressure?

I'll be greatfull for any sugestions!

Thank you!



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Low Blood Pressure!

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:40:48 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Florin Dima" <florind@geniusnet.ro> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>I saw on the list a lot of talking about high blood pressure but there is

>any herbal treatment for low or fluctuant blood pressure?



Maralroot (Leuzea rhaponticum, Rhaponticum carthamoides) will reliably raise low

blood pressure, if used regularly.



Before you embark on a wild goose chase looking for maralroot root tincture,

though, I've a question: is your low blood pressure interfering with your life

(ie. "real" low blood pressure) or is it just something measured by numbers?



Because low blood pressure by the numbers shouldn't be tampered with. Some of us

NEED low blood pressure to be in balance.



Maralroot is easy to grow and the root is large enough for picking after three

or so years. It's a tall (1-2 m) Compositae. Being an adaptogen it's used much

like the ginsengs. Pics of the plants in flower will be online, soonish, on my

site. 



Right now I've only got pics of the young plant and of the dug-up root online.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Lactation in NON-pregnant female

From: "Elinor" <eratcliffe@optusnet.com.au>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:15:11 +1000

--------

Sent to the herblist by elinor <elinor@big.net.au> :



Help!!



This morning whilst doing a regular self-examination, I noticed milk

secreting from my breast.  I checked the other one, and sure enough, much to

my horror, I resembed closely enough, a dairy cow.



I have no explanation whatsoever for this, I'm 32 years old, am definitely

NOT pregnant, am on day 10 of my menstrual cycle.  (Never been pregnant

either).



HOWEVER (always a however), I have been reading how vitex may increase

prolactin.  I have been taking what I would call a 'menstrual regulator' mix

which includes dong quai, however, the vitex was only in very small doses.



Could this be the cause?  (I would have gone to the doctor, however, on this

weekend and being mid winter, all medical centres within 20kms are fully

booked!).



Thanks



Elinor



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lactation in NON-pregnant female

From: "Scott and Aliceann Carlton" <carlton@midrivers.com>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:47:04 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Aliceann and Scott Carlton <carlton@midrivers.com> :



Hello Elinor,



This is one of those "be careful what you wish for" situations.  Any

formulations that affect reproductive system/hormone levels need to be

carefully chosen.  You might want to explore why you were taking the

formulation in the first place....sometimes irregularity is not due to

reproductive system problems or imbalances.



My suggestion would be to stop taking the supplement for a month and see if

there is a change.  If not...look to pituitary-hypothalamic pathway

imbalances which will directly affect reproductive horemone levels as well

as vice-versa.



Good luck.

Aliceann Carlton



----- Original Message -----

From: Elinor

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 8:15 PM

Subject: Lactation in NON-pregnant female



Sent to the herblist by elinor <elinor@big.net.au> :



Help!!



This morning whilst doing a regular self-examination, I noticed milk

secreting from my breast.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Lactation in NON-pregnant female

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:31:44 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Dear Elinor,

         Just in case you are not aware of it, prolonged nipple stimulation 

over weeks can produce a light serious milk secretion in a non-pregnant 

female.  So besides a possible chemical backdrop, there can be a physical 

one as well.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: California Poppy

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 08:34:21 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Does anyone know if Eschscholtzia californica works well for insomnia in

tea or capsule form?



Thanks,

May



--

I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the

better for it.   ---Abraham Lincoln



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: looking for history

From: gloria scholbe <globird@tenmegs.com>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:24:59 -0500

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Sent to the herblist by gloria scholbe <globird@tenmegs.com> :



Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of online

resources about the history of herbal healing, particularly around the

late 1800's to middle 1900's where herbal medicine and the AMA started

to clash and herbal healing fell into disfavor.



I pick up bits and pieces here and there...have read mention of the



Eclectics but can't seem to find a thorough study of this period.



Much appreciated, thanks



gloria



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To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: looking for history

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:20:17 -0700

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Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>Sent to the herblist by gloria scholbe <globird@tenmegs.com> :

>

>Hi,

>I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of online

>resources about the history of herbal healing, particularly around the

>late 1800's to middle 1900's where herbal medicine and the AMA started

>to clash and herbal healing fell into disfavor.

>

>I pick up bits and pieces here and there...have read mention of the

>

>Eclectics but can't seem to find a thorough study of this period.

>

>Much appreciated, thanks

>

>gloria



Check out Michael Moore's web site 

http://chili.rt66.com/hrbmoore/HOMEPAGE/HomePage.html



he has published on like several texts from that time period. Cannot 

remember but somewhere I have also read his comments on it.  Sharon 

in Tucon



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To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: looking for history

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:23:01 +0300

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Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



<huge snip>



>he has published on like several texts from that time period. Cannot 

>remember but somewhere I have also read his comments on it.  Sharon 

>in Tucon



There's also the "Periscope" -article by Francis Brinker. Lessee, I have the URL

here somewhere... ayup, on my classic texts page. Here you go:



   http://www.eclecticherb.com/periscop.htm



And I think there's something about the Eclectics in the medicinal herbFAQ, too.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



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To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: looking for history

From: "Sarah Head" <sarah@headology.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:46:48 +0100

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Sent to the herblist by Sarah J Head <sarah@headology.co.uk> :



While we're on the subject of herbal history. I have just come back from a

guided walk of Shakespeare's Stratford-on-Avon and learnt that his

son-in-law, John Hall, was the best doctor in England at the time, grew and

processed his own herbs and kept a comprehensive note of all his treatments.

These notes, unfortunately only the ones of successful treatments, were

subsequently published - sorry I can't remember the title.



I just wondered if anyone had read John Hall's book as it sounded really

interesting being before Culpepper's time, but after Hildegarde of Bingen's.

Apparently it became a medical textbook!



Sarah



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To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Angelica seeds

From: "Sarah Head" <sarah@headology.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:46:48 +0100

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Sent to the herblist by Sarah J Head <sarah@headology.co.uk> :



I have two angelica plants which have produced huge balls of seeds this

year. The advice I have read says to remove the seed stalks before the seeds

ripen or thousands of angelica seedlings will choke the flower border next

year. Given that one angelica is next to my golden seal plant, I really

don't want it to be choked, but I would like some mature seed that I can

plant in seed trays next year and perhaps give away.



Could I cut off the seed heads now at the green stage and hang them upside

down somewhere dry and warm to ripen?



Many thanks



Sarah



