

==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Plantago purshii

From: Charlie Kane <charkane@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 06:10:45 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by charles kane <charkane@earthlink.net> :



After good winter rains Catalina State Park is covered with annual desert plantain

(Plantago purshii) - you'll have to dodge the park rangers though. :)



Regards

Charlie Kane

--------------------------------------------------------------------



For the Tucson Clinic of Botanical Medicine, The Collection Newsletter,

Herb Walks, Herb and Environmental Issues, and more,  check out....

http://www.tcbm.med



> Subject: Re: plantain

> From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:06:47 -0700

> X-Message-Number: 4

>

> well you are right it does grow here if there has been enough rain in

> the winter. It is summer monsoons and it doesn't seem to sprout for

> them. I had 3 plants in my yard that dried out by April I just don't

> have the heart to gather something so sparse. I really haven't found

> a big enough patch to gather from yet.

> Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:Beeswax post from 30 July '01

From: dpotocki <dpotocki@erols.com>

Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:51:53 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by dpotocki@erols.com :



Please excuse me if this has been stated before. I haven't recently been

able to read my posts as faithfully as usual. I used to make candles and

just wanted to warn anyone who might not realize how flammable wax is.

Don't ever leave it on the heat unattended and be sure to have a

tight-fitting lid close to the pan you are using. If the wax does catch

on fire, just put the lid on, and it should snuff out the flame by

killing the oxygen.



> Pot the wax into the foot of some old panty-hose or tie it loosely into

> some fine muslin, put the whole thing into a pot of water and heat it

> gently until the wax melts and runs out through the mesh.

>

The operative word here is "gently", don't use a high level of heat.

Also, I am interested in the suggestion about the nylon. Might the

artificial fabric melt along with the wax?  Thanks!



Donna



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Beeswax post from 30 July '01

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:03:46 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 8/1/01 12:49:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

dpotocki@erols.com writes:



<< The operative word here is "gently", don't use a high level of heat.

 Also, I am interested in the suggestion about the nylon. Might the

 artificial fabric melt along with the wax?  Thanks!

 

 Donna

  >>



Hi Donna -



Thanks for sharing about the beeswax.  Hot wax can be very damaging and 

certainly would melt nylon.  Then removing it from your project would be more 

trouble.



In health -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH, ND

Conley Farm Learning Center & Apothecary

Private consultations; Classes now forming for September

Online classes schedule through Herbgrow30@aol.com; 

Mystical Forest Children's Herbs



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:Beeswax post from 30 July '01

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:51 +0100 (BST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Pat S <psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk> :



Hi Donna,



> Also, I am interested in the suggestion about the nylon. Might the

> artificial fabric melt along with the wax?  Thanks!



No, there isn't a problem.  You put plenty of water in the pot and only 

get it hot enough to melt the wax so it doesn't even get near to the 

boiling point of water.



PatS



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Beeswax post from 30 July '01

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:09 +0100 (BST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Pat S <psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk> :



Hi Mary,



> Thanks for sharing about the beeswax.  Hot wax can be very damaging and 

> certainly would melt nylon.  Then removing it from your project would 

> be more trouble.



I promise you that if you melt the wax in water the temperature cannot get 

above the boiling point of water (unless you let it all evaporate of 

course) and at that temperature there is no problem at all with the nylon 

melting.  If using nylon bothers you tie the wax loosely into some 

loose-woven cotton cloth such as muslin or cheesecloth, it's just that a 

panty-hose foot is so convenient.



PatS



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Aloe

From: Eleanor Sommer <eksommer@gator.net>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:23:15 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Eleanor K. Sommer <eksommer@gator.net> :



I would like to begin adding fresh aloe to my salves and creams. This is 

something I have not previously done, and despite my earnest research, I 

have found no information about how to do this. I have found plenty on how 

to harvest and prepare the aloe, but not how it will react in combinations 

or if it needs to be specially prepared initially. Has anyone had any 

experience with this? Thank you.

Ellie in Florida



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Aloe

From: "Stephen Pointer" <stephen.pointer@zoom.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:19:53 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Stephen Pointer <stephen.pointer@zoom.co.uk> :



Hello Ellie in Florida



One thing that I have found it that Aloe tends to go off quite easily with

out a preservative.



Steve







==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Aloe

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:51:31 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



----- Original Message -----

From: "Stephen Pointer"

>

> One thing that I have found it that Aloe tends to go off quite easily with

> out a preservative.

>



Those were my thoughts, too. I imagine it's due to its high water content.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Vegan alternative to beeswax in salve?

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:42:22 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



I just had a customer contact me, wishing to buy some salve, but they are

vegan and do not use bee products. I'm wondering if there are any

alternatives to beeswax as a thickening agent in salve. She suggested

glycerin, but I'm only familiar with liquid vegetable glycerin. Is there a

solid form? Would something like that work, I wonder? Anyone have any other

suggestion?



TIA



Kerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.KerrysHerbals.com

Miracle Salve, herbal tinctures, essential oils and more!



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Vegan alternative to beeswax in salve?

From: "Rosemari Roast" <walkinthewoods@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:49:38 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Rosemari Roast <walkinthewoods@5Pillars.com> :



RE ". . . alternatives to beeswax as a thickening agent in salve."



I have used Shea Butter on occasion, and while it does not behave precisely

like beeswax, it is workable and is (I believe) a vegetable product.



There must be other vegetable butters (solids) out there that I am unaware

of that would work and I am looking forward to the responses of others.



Hope this helps!



Rosemari Roast

Herbal & Energy Medicine

Walk in the Woods, LLC



www.geocities.com/walk_inthe_woods



To learn about events & workshops coming up in CT, please visit:

www.geocities.com/walk_inthe_woods/healinglevents



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Vegan alternative to beeswax in salve?

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:21:28 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



cocoa butter but it melts at body temp. there is also that yucky 

mineral wax-- paraffin.

Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Vegan alternative to beeswax in salve?

From: mango <j.kolling@chello.nl>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:04:54 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by mango <j.kolling@chello.nl> :



Coconut butter.



Btw: just how many lines may one reply to before the posting is ignored?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Vegan alternative to beeswax in salve?

From: "Diana Lapp" <dlapp@bmi.net>

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:57:41 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Diana Lapp <dlapp@bmi.net> :



Kerry,



Candelilla wax makes a good vegan substitute for beeswax, albeit 

more expensive.  I have made lip balm with a mix of candelilla and 

carnauba waxes that turned out very nice.  Carnauba wax (also 

vegatable based) is extremely hard - harder than beeswax.  

Candelilla wax is somewhat softer than beeswax.  Mixing your 

wax(es) with shea butter, cocoa butter, and/or coconut oil makes 

for very emollient salves.



Diana

His Garden Botanicals



> Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :

> 

> I just had a customer contact me, wishing to buy some salve, but they

> are vegan and do not use bee products. I'm wondering if there are any

> alternatives to beeswax as a thickening agent in salve. She suggested

> glycerin, but I'm only familiar with liquid vegetable glycerin. Is

> there a solid form? Would something like that work, I wonder? Anyone

> have any other suggestion?

> 

> TIA

> 

> Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Vegan alternative to beeswax in salve?

From: Elizabeth Scotten <bek@timelessremedies.com>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:28:03 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



on 8/2/01 6:42 PM, Kerry's Herbals at jclarke1@mn.rr.com wrote:

> I just had a customer contact me, wishing to buy some salve, but they are

> vegan and do not use bee products. I'm wondering if there are any

> alternatives to beeswax as a thickening agent in salve. She suggested

> glycerin, but I'm only familiar with liquid vegetable glycerin. Is there a

> solid form? Would something like that work, I wonder? Anyone have any other

> suggestion?



I have been using jojoba wax for a client who is allergic to bee products. I

haven't tried it in a salve, but it makes a beautiful cream! It is rather

expensive but worth it. I have been wanting to play with a few other plant

waxes and butters so we'll see...



love&light - bek

-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Vegan alternative to beeswax in salve?

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 08:26:09 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



i would love to try the jojoba wax, where can i buy it??



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Vegan alternative to beeswax in salve?

From: Elizabeth Scotten <bek@timelessremedies.com>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:20:25 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



on 8/4/01 11:26 AM, LJS Doody at ldoody@internetcds.com wrote:



> Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :

> 

> i would love to try the jojoba wax, where can i buy it??



Try www.jancas.com (nci) that's where i get it.



-bek



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: zuchini oil???

From: Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:52:10 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com> :



I was cutting zuchini up for bread, when I noticed small beads of clear liquid

coming out from the cleanly sliced through edge.



I rubbed it on my thumb and it soon turned into a white foamy type substance.



Ten minutes later, my thumb feels like it has been injected a painkiller of

some sort.  Almost like novicane.



Am I merely being sensitive, or does zuchini actually have some medicinal

purposes that I don't know about?



Thanks for the help in this weird inquiry;  I'm curious!



Jeanette



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: zuchini oil???

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:32:31 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:52:10 -0500 Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com>

writes:

> Sent to the herblist by Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com> :

> 

> I was cutting zuchini up for bread,... I noticed small beads of 

> clear liquid coming out from the cleanly sliced through edge. 

> I rubbed it on my thumb and it soon turned into a white foamy type 

> substance. Ten minutes later, my thumb feels like it has been injected

a 

> painkiller of some sort.  Almost like novicane. Am I merely being

sensitive, or does zuchini actually have some  medicinal

> purposes that I don't know about?



There is something in the "hairs" ( vibrissae?) on the skin that behaves

strangely with me, and I tend to scrub heavily with a clump of nylon

tulle fabric which removes anything strange.  I would think it is the

plant's protection against predators, after all the zucchini is the seed

pod, the source of new life for the plant.  If that is what it is, it may

be antiparasitic.



Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: zuchini oil???

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:25:28 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



from Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu> :



>As an ecologist and herbalist, I (and the planet) are horrified at your

>suggestion of harvesting plants in a protected area! If a medicinal plant

>is only growing in a state park, then you need to start cultivating it in

>your yard and encouraging others to do the same.

(snip)



Kentucky state parks prohibit taking plant materials, and I presume most other

states have similar laws.



Maybe desert plantain also grows in other nearby areas after good winter rains?



>After good winter rains Catalina State Park is covered with annual desert

plantain

>(Plantago purshii) - you'll have to dodge the park rangers though. :)

>Regards

>Charlie Kane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Ethical Wildcrafting (was: plantain)

From: Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:27:04 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu> :



As an ecologist and herbalist, I (and the planet) are horrified at your

suggestion of harvesting plants in a protected area! If a medicinal plant

is only growing in a state park, then you need to start cultivating it in

your yard and encouraging others to do the same. If it's too difficult to

cultivate, we need to find an alternative. The whole point of state and

national parks is to protect natural resources, which includes native

medicinal plants and weeds, even "common" ones. There are other public

lands where harvest is allowed, such as BLM lands and state and national

forests, as well as our own backyards and other private lands. I encourage

herbalists to learn the differences between land protection categories so

that you can gather herbs in areas where it is allowed.



I know the arguments -- we herbalists are superior and we know best how to

wildcraft and we're trying to heal people, right? I wish I could believe

that, but I have seen too many herbalists who just take whatever they want

whenever they want it, without a thought or a prayer (or with an insincere

prayer). I was especially ashamed of our lot at the Medicines from the

Earth conference in 2000. David Winston had located an American Ginseng

plant on the site and showed it during one of his wild weed walks. The next

day it was gone...in the midst of a conference of 500 herbalists. Go

figure. -SM



>After good winter rains Catalina State Park is covered with annual desert

plantain

>(Plantago purshii) - you'll have to dodge the park rangers though. :)

>Regards

>Charlie Kane



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: beeswax

From: "Lizard" <lizard@dock.net>

Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:29:29 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by frank cordeiro <lizard@dock.net> :



Two thoughts:

First, beeswax is excreted by the bees and harvested by bee keepers without

(I thought) harming the bees..  Wouldn't a vegan be able to use it?



Second, there is a new soy wax on the market being used to make candles and

supposedly cheaper than beeswax.  Currently (using Google) I could only find

it in large quantities but I thought you might find it interesting.

Lizard (replying late cuz' he's got the digest)



-----

on 8/2/01 6:42 PM, Kerry's Herbals at jclarke1@mn.rr.com wrote:

> I just had a customer contact me, wishing to buy some salve, but they are

> vegan and do not use bee products. I'm wondering if there are any

> alternatives to beeswax as a thickening agent in salve.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: beeswax

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:55:06 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



----- Original Message -----

From: "Lizard" <lizard@dock.net>

> Two thoughts:

> First, beeswax is excreted by the bees and harvested by bee keepers

without

> (I thought) harming the bees..  Wouldn't a vegan be able to use it?

>



Well, I think there are different "levels" of veganism. Apparently these

people are very strict vegans, and do not use any animal byproducts.



Thank you everyone for your wonderful suggestions! I'm looking further into

carnauba wax, and I think I'll give that a try and see what happens.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: Charlie Kane <charkane@earthlink.net>

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 06:49:41 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by charles kane <charkane@earthlink.net> :



I recognize the plant...not the artificially created boundary, be it state,

federal, county, etc.   If the population will support harvesting then I will do

so.  The million dollar question is how big, diverse, etc. does a plant population

have to be to collect from.  That is determined from the experience and discretion

of the herbalist and from the direct impact of collection.  Just like in any other

profession you got good herbalists and bad herbalists.  In this day and age a good

herbalist must be an environmentalist and very conscious of his of her impacts on

the natural world.



I would rather collect a plant in a park where it is literally a ground cover than

in a not so coveted place where it is sporadic and sensitive to any upheaval.



Charlie



------------------------------------------------------------------

For the Tucson Clinic of Botanical Medicine, The Collection Newsletter,

Herb Walks, Herb and Environmental Issues, and more,  check out....

http://tcbmed.com/





> Subject: Ethical Wildcrafting (was: plantain)

> From: Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

>

> As an ecologist and herbalist, I (and the planet) are horrified at your

> suggestion of harvesting plants in a protected area! If a medicinal plant

> is only growing in a state park, then you need to start cultivating it in

> your yard and encouraging others to do the same. If it's too difficult to

> cultivate, we need to find an alternative. The whole point of state and

> national parks is to protect natural resources, which includes native

> medicinal plants and weeds, even "common" ones.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:05:36 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu> :



I agree that some herbalists are probably more skilled than others at

determining whether or not to gather a plant from a wild population. So who

exactly is going to determine who the "good" and "bad" herbalists are?

Where did you sign up for certification? Did you get a special badge?...a

special permit to go to my favorite park and collect plants? I don't think

so. I am playing a bit of devil's advocate here, but I think you get the

point. None of us is qualified to play god. 



The million dollar question is exactly as you state it: how big does a

plant population have to be to collect from it. This is a serious

ecological question and is the sort of work that is being undertaken in the

field of study known as Conservation Biology. The science has not yet been

able to state what is the appropriate number for a population of plants or

animals to thrive. We know that smaller populations (below 500? below 200?)

of wide-ranging mammals are in peril of extinction due to genetic

compression and inbreeding. Plant populations are perhaps even less

flexible than those of mammals, since plants require specific conditions

and they cannot "move" to satisfy their habitat requirements except through

the slow process of seed dispersal. 



If you need a plant for your personal or professional healing practices,

your discretion becomes very subjective. You have a conflict of interest

and you are NOT in the best position to determine if the population can

withstand your collecting. I suggest further reading and research on the

part of anyone who wants to know more, e.g. check out the journal

"Conservation Biology" or any of several textbooks by that title and also

the excellent book "Saving Nature's Legacy." You could also join United

Plant Savers to learn more about imperiled medicinal plants and to support

our efforts to protect and save them. (NCI all.)



As for the violation of park boundaries, you are just like the folks in

Amazonia (or President Bush and his oil buddies, for that matter). "The

boundaries are 'artificial'," you reason, "so why not collect there. I

actually deserve to collect there. No one can stop me." And so it goes,

until the planet and all of its species are collected to death. Exactly

which part of the planet is protected from our greedy grabbing and

grubbing? How do we decide? Where do you draw the line? We have

collectively established parks in the U.S. for this very purpose of

protection. Believe me, I am no pro-government cheerleader, but our parks

serve a very vital purpose. They are a VERY SMALL percentage of our overall

land mass (just about 2-3%). We have more land under interstate highways in

this country than we do in protected areas! And then those of us who are

supposed to be environmentally aware are running into the parks and

stealing plants -- shame on you! I implore you to reconsider your actions

and find an alternative way to satisfy your herbal needs.



Charlie's previous post:

>I recognize the plant...not the artificially created boundary, be it state,

>federal, county, etc. If the population will support harvesting then I will do

>so. The million dollar question is how big, diverse, etc. does a plant 

>population have to be to collect from.  That is determined from the

experience 

>and discretion of the herbalist and from the direct impact of collection.  

>Just like in any other profession you got good herbalists and bad

herbalists.  

>In this day and age a good herbalist must be an environmentalist and very 

>conscious of his of her impacts on the natural world.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:43:43 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



Bravo Susan

You stated what I felt, much better than I would have.



And I can't believe that the only plantain you could

find to harvest would be on protected land. Look around

it is a very prolific plant, and if it is growing in a protected

area near you, it is probably growing in unprotected areas

near you as well.



It is also embarrassingly easy to cultivate, it's a "weed" after

all.



I was delighted to find both ginseng and trillium growing in

my own woodlands a few years back. While it is by no means

a "protected area" (well maybe by me) I wouldn't think of

harvesting it because even though the plants are healthy, there are

just a few of them scattered about. Of course that's the way they

grow in the wild, not in swaths like when we cultivate them.



3 years ago I planted ginseng root and I am hoping that in a few years

I will be able to harvest some of them. In the meantime I buy what I need

from a reputable source.



Heidi Scholes



----- Original Message -----

> Sent to the herblist by Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu> :

>

> I agree that some herbalists are probably more skilled than others at

> determining whether or not to gather a plant from a wild population. So

who

> exactly is going to determine who the "good" and "bad" herbalists are?

> Where did you sign up for certification? Did you get a special badge?...a

> special permit to go to my favorite park and collect plants? I don't think

> so. I am playing a bit of devil's advocate here, but I think you get the

> point. None of us is qualified to play god.

>

> The million dollar question is exactly as you state it: how big does a

> plant population have to be to collect from it. This is a serious

> ecological question and is the sort of work that is being undertaken in

the

> field of study known as Conservation Biology. The science has not yet been

> able to state what is the appropriate number for a population of plants or

> animals to thrive. We know that smaller populations (below 500? below

200?)

> of wide-ranging mammals are in peril of extinction due to genetic

> compression and inbreeding. Plant populations are perhaps even less

> flexible than those of mammals, since plants require specific conditions

> and they cannot "move" to satisfy their habitat requirements except

through

> the slow process of seed dispersal.

>

> If you need a plant for your personal or professional healing practices,

> your discretion becomes very subjective. You have a conflict of interest

> and you are NOT in the best position to determine if the population can

> withstand your collecting. I suggest further reading and research on the

> part of anyone who wants to know more, e.g. check out the journal

> "Conservation Biology" or any of several textbooks by that title and also

> the excellent book "Saving Nature's Legacy." You could also join United

> Plant Savers to learn more about imperiled medicinal plants and to support

> our efforts to protect and save them. (NCI all.)

>

> As for the violation of park boundaries, you are just like the folks in

> Amazonia (or President Bush and his oil buddies, for that matter). "The

> boundaries are 'artificial'," you reason, "so why not collect there. I

> actually deserve to collect there. No one can stop me." And so it goes,

> until the planet and all of its species are collected to death. Exactly

> which part of the planet is protected from our greedy grabbing and

> grubbing? How do we decide? Where do you draw the line? We have

> collectively established parks in the U.S. for this very purpose of



> protection. Believe me, I am no pro-government cheerleader, but our parks

> serve a very vital purpose. They are a VERY SMALL percentage of our

overall

> land mass (just about 2-3%). We have more land under interstate highways

in

> this country than we do in protected areas! And then those of us who are

> supposed to be environmentally aware are running into the parks and

> stealing plants -- shame on you! I implore you to reconsider your actions

> and find an alternative way to satisfy your herbal needs.

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:31:02 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>Heidi wrote:::

>And I can't believe that the only plantain you could

>find to harvest would be on protected land. Look around

>it is a very prolific plant, and if it is growing in a protected

>area near you, it is probably growing in unprotected areas

>near you as well.

>



OK where to begin just because some place is a park or national 

monument, national forest, protected habitat means that it is truly 

protected or that it is in optimum health. Nor does it mean that 

people don't fit into the ecology of place. after living here in the 

desert especially I see how many of the plants that are here rely on 

animals/ people to keep them healthy.When the native populations were 

here there was a city here with a population that would match what is 

here now and they were living off this land of corse they also had a 

summer home in the mountains. Now we have taken over the prime living 

areas and the reservations are in the most desolate areas and there 

is no more summer home either. In any case most of the Saguaro fruit 

goes ungathered and I see alot less baby saguaro then there was 

before, this is something that is being studied but study is a trendy 

thing. The saguaro fruit is the sweetest wild fruit in the desert and 

I think that it has survived being attractive this way, just like 

tomatoes the seeds survive the intestines to be planted with a lump 

of rich fertilizer. this plant is protected not only on state land 

but supposedly over the whole state, and guess what if a land 

developer wants to clear the land they can. Now I know that there can 

be "some" apparent effort to preserve and the developer may cut a 

nice tidy root ball off in order to up root this plant and sell it or 

re-plant after the construction is done. So lets look at the 

re-planting all the roots have been cut and the soil disrupted how 

long to you think it takes them to die? some times quick but more 

often it is many months  to a couple years remember they are drought 

resistant and will stay green and just slowly fold in on themselves. 

these plants need all their surface roots the roots grow longer than 

the height of the plant the only trouble is that a conventional 

gardner may think well we can trim these side roots off and it will 

be ok- this is not how this plant survives the way it survives is by 

gathering water from those side roots, the plant doesn't live off a 

conventional root ball. Water when it rains runs quick here in the 

desert and doesn't seep deeply in on the hillsides where the saguaro 

grow. This is also simular to the national forest service policy to 

CLEAR CUT all areas that are logged. They will sell a permit to a 

logging co. to cut  X ammount of board feet of fir in an area, there 

are about 50 trees in this area of the type  and perhaps 5 times as 

many other kinds of trees a say some redwood, cedar or larch.  The 

logging company cuts all of the trees in this area  but are only 

allowed to truck out the fir, the NFS may have even determined that 

in this region that they won't allow trucking out any of the other 

kinds of threes cut down because they are in short supply. In the 

past the remaining plants and trees were left mostly where they laid 

with some in  slash piles now the remaining trees are all put into 

the slash and  burnt, if someone doesn't go and truck off those 

things before it happens.The discovery and use of taxol for breast 

cancer made use of some of the old wood that had been left lying 

around  and some of the old slash piles, the companies with permits 

in hand went out and harvested all trees they could find in those 

regions and cut quite a bit more- destroyed the huckle berry bushes 

in these areas because these low bushes that had regrown in the 

previously cleared places if the soil was just right. Should this 

type of use policy be allowed, does it make environmental sense it is 

done and has been done since the forest service started "managing and 

protecting" our lands? It doesn't mean wild gathers are immune to 

this kind of stupid behavior either but I do think that if more 

people used and lived in the outdoor habitat that there would be 

greater conservation efforts overall. I use to have an old book 

published at the turn of the century titled "WILD FLOWERS EVERY CHILD 

SHOULD KNOW"  there was between 200 and 300 plants identified in the 

book, this is atleast  how many plants my grandparents could name . 

How many plants can the average person name now? This ignorance is a 

big part of how so many plants and environs are endangered now.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:17:10 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>Heidi  wrote:

>And I can't believe that the only plantain you could

>find to harvest would be on protected land. Look around

>it is a very prolific plant, and if it is growing in a protected

>area near you, it is probably growing in unprotected areas

>near you as well.

>

>It is also embarrassingly easy to cultivate, it's a "weed" after

>all.

>



As you say you live in a "woodlands" this has little to do with our 

environment. Here in the" desert" plantain is only alive in the early 

spring in areas where there has been enough water through the winter 

to produce germination and growth. there may be plantain seed under 

our very feet but if not enough water no plant and the seed will 

wait. The variety that grows here is extremely narrow leaved about 

1/8" wide and 2" - 6" long and is generally very hairy, it is called 

Indian wheat because it resembles a miniature wheat plant . They do 

not grow in closely packed mats and I think that is probably an 

annual and not perennial. I would like to gather a small bit of it 

just in case I get stung by another scorpion , where do you purpose I 

gather it? All federal and most state lands require permits of some 

type in order to gather, do all the herbalists on the list get the 

required permits and also get permission from property owners to 

gather even on apparently untended or fenced lands? There are no 

places I know of that are not "owned " in someway. Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: Charlie Kane <charkane@earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 00:56:07 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by charles kane <charkane@earthlink.net> :



Let me begin by saying that I am going to bypass responses to the flagrant

suppositions and snide remarks previously written.



I feel the main point to this discussion is the impact of collection on plant

populations and or the area where the plant exists, and whether it is appropriate

to collect within politically derived boundaries.  I will say it again - let the

plant population decide if collecting is appropriate - not the politically drawn

lines, which are created - mostly - by a group of elitist older white males.



Who decides  on whether the population can tolerate harvesting (and many times grow

stronger from it)? - we do! - the one's whose craft is taking of plant life and

giving life and health to the people who need it most.  If we are intimate enough

with a local area, seeing the place change with the seasons,  having an intrinsic

knowningness of how to behave and what to do in a  place, we are 100 times more

qualified to be in that position than any consortium of scientists laying down the

"law" .  There are places where only 1 person can collect without minor

disruption.  There are other areas where the land is resilient and the plants are

extremely numerous - many people can collect there.  And, of course there are

places where no one should collect if they wish not to leave a detrimental mark

that will not heal.  These decisions must always be up to us - the herbalists.  If

one day we are not (and we are getting there) able to make these decisions it will

be partly because we have failed in our role of emissary to the people, who largely

have no clue of the plant world.  It will be a time when everything is under a

glass dome divided into pieces, fragmented to the point of only parts not greater

than the whole.  I insist - people who collect anything, even with a moderate

amount of environmental awareness are part of the solution.



I am as zealous about plant preservation as any who were so moved to passionately

post to this string.  But the reality of it is we kill and or hurt plants, and

therefore take from our surrounding environments overtly in order to practice our

profession.  We are worth our salt when we are able to do this, subjectively - make

minimal impacts, and help the recipient heal.



Boundaries do not matter - the plants, the earth and surroundings through which

they came, and the transformation which can occur in practicing the art of

herbalism is what matters.



Charlie



-------------------------------------------------------------------

For the Tucson Clinic of Botanical Medicine, The Collection Newsletter,

Herb Walks, Herb and Environmental Issues, and more,  check out....

http://tcbmed.com/



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:40:50 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



----- Original Message -----

"Charlie Kane" charkane@earthlink.net

wrote:

<snip>



>There are places where only 1 person can collect without minor

> disruption.  There are other areas where the land is resilient and the

plants are

> extremely numerous - many people can collect there.  And, of course there

are

> places where no one should collect if they wish not to leave a detrimental

mark

> that will not heal



Following your line of thinking here, how do you know who else is collecting

in an

area? In other words if only one person can collect without damaging an

area, who

decides WHO that one person is? You?



If you are collecting and then selling your herbals, I think you have an

intrinsic conflict

of interest, and are probably not the best judge of how much can be taken.



If you, on the other hand, are giving the herbals to the poor or needy and

get no monetary

reward for such, I may be willing to accept that the temptation to take what

you need

regardless of the impact would never be an issue for you. But then that's

just you, one person.

What about the other wildcrafters who don't have your lofty principals? Or

are you saying that

just because they are herbalists, they are above the baser human flaws like

greed and self interest?



I wish that were true...



Heidi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 06:58:46 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



[ and snipped by me ]



> If you are collecting and then selling your herbals, I think you have an

> intrinsic conflict

> of interest, and are probably not the best judge of how much can be taken.



How can the conflict be intrinsic? Maybe he's a highly principled guy, 

who harvests with the utmost regard for conservation, and is also 

mindful of the fact that island populations are at great risk, and so 

out of regard for his own future opportunity he harvests lightly and

selectively, removing weaker members and alleviating overcrowding.



> If you, on the other hand, are giving the herbals to the poor or needy and

> get no monetary

> reward for such, I may be willing to accept that the temptation to take what

> you need

> regardless of the impact would never be an issue for you.



So, then, it is your belief that he'd be more likely to harvest with 

conservation in mind after looking into the eyes of an ailing child? 

That's terribly insulting, don't you think?



> Or

> are you saying that

> just because they are herbalists, they are above the baser human flaws like

> greed and self interest?



Interestingly, I would expect a very strong conservation ethic among 

wildcrafting herbalists. It's in a wildcrafter's best interest to 

ensure the vitality of the populations he harvests, is it not? 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:13:21 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



----- Original Message -----

From: "Art Sackett" <asackett@artsackett.com>

To: <herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu>

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:58 AM

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting



> Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :

>

> How can the conflict be intrinsic? Maybe he's a highly principled guy,

> who harvests with the utmost regard for conservation, and is also

> mindful of the fact that island populations are at great risk, and so

> out of regard for his own future opportunity he harvests lightly and

> selectively, removing weaker members and alleviating overcrowding.



I have no doubt that he is

>

>

> So, then, it is your belief that he'd be more likely to harvest with

> conservation in mind after looking into the eyes of an ailing child?

> That's terribly insulting, don't you think?



I certainly didn't mean to be insulting and I am sorry that you feel that I

was.



But it is my belief that if he is making money from the sale of the

plants that he (and I am using "he" as a global here, not pointing to one

individual) wildcrafts, and then he has a conflict between what's good for

the

plant, and what's good for him, I'm not so sure the economic argument

wouldn't

win.



>

> Interestingly, I would expect a very strong conservation ethic among

> wildcrafting herbalists. It's in a wildcrafter's best interest to

> ensure the vitality of the populations he harvests, is it not?

>

In a perfect world that certainly would be true. In that perfect world there

would

also be much more Goldenseal and Ginseng growing in the wild.



I'm not implying that Charlie is going around raping the wilderness, I just

found his

tone unsettling. It sounded to me like he was saying that he can take plants

from

anywhere he wants. Like "the protections and rules don't apply to me,

because I'm special

and I know what I'm doing." Great maybe he is, and maybe the person who

comes after

him is too, and maybe the next, until you get to that person who says.

"Whoa, getting a little thin

here, and even though I really need that plantain (or whatever) for a salve,

I'll have to wait until

next year and hope that the rains come again and that I get here early

enough" That's a fine

scenario and I'm sure it happens just like that.



(TIC, for those who don't recognize it)



Or wait, maybe I am missing the obvious, that every wildcrafter is an

educated herbalists, no

wildcrafting territories overlap and no plant is ever being overharvested...



...yeah that's the ticket



I'm sorry that I offended so many people with my opinions, and I'm not going

to continue with this thread.



Heidi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: "Cylise (cyli)" <cyli@tiny.net>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:19:19 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Cylise <cyli@tiny.net> :



 

> I'm sorry that I offended so many people with my opinions, and I'm not going to

> continue with this thread.

> 

> Heidi



Okay, then, I'll take part of it on.  Since this started I've been wondering 

why anyone who has decided he/she is good enough to go above the law isn't good 

enough to find the stuff out where it's legal. If it's in a park, there should 

be some outside the park, shouldn't there?

--



rbc: vixen.  Fairly harmless.   Most of the time.



http://www.visi.com/~cyli



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:12:22 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



Firstly, I speak only for myself, and perhaps not very well...



> Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



8< snipped, with all due regard for the continued health and

   abundance of the discussion >8   :-)



> But it is my belief that if he is making money from the sale of the

> plants that he (and I am using "he" as a global here, not pointing to one

> individual) wildcrafts, and then he has a conflict between what's good for

> the

> plant, and what's good for him, I'm not so sure the economic argument

> wouldn't

> win.



It seems that you disbelieve in the existence of others, such as I, in 

whose belief system the good of the plant IS the good of the man. We 

would no sooner participate in the destruction of a plant population 

than we would participate in the stoning of one of our children.



Perhaps after the heat of the argument has subsided, we can revisit 

this issue with greater care to avoid giving offense. I think I would 

like that, if we can in fact avoid giving offense. I've never once seen 

an apology whose healing ran as deep as the wound to which it was 

applied.



-- 

Art



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:10:26 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



	Here, Here, Charlie, I agree with you fully. Many of the herbs we see 

growing in protected or unprotected areas will simply naturally fade away 

in its own growing cycle, unused, if not collected. It is a waste.  True, 

if one collects the upper leaves/blossoms, then that plant will not seed, 

but as is nature's way, the other neighboring plants will more than take up 

the slack of the missing plant tops (or you can simply leave a few 

flowers/seeds on that plant). As far as those plants which roots are needed 

in the Fall, that plant has already gone to seed and has "renewed" itself. 

It is the wildcrafter which has to judge the plant population dynamics at 

time of harvesting.

	What intrinsic good is protected nature if it can not be appreciated and 

utilized in a protected way?  Park administrators/law makers are not 

medical herbalists and have not given us consideration of any kind. I am 

with you, Charlie. You will find most practicing wildcrafters to be the 

most rabid  of conservationists of any in the human population.



doug

	



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: "Daphne Saul" <dtstsz91@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:10:17 

--------

Sent to the herblist by Daphne Saul <dtstsz91@hotmail.com> :



I am going to put my 2 cents in here.



I happen to see both sides of this issue.



There *are* people, hard though it may be for some to believe or understand 

who *make* it their business to know the land that sustains them intimately. 

  This would include being aware of other locations of particular plants, in 

addition to things that go beyond the scope of this board (which often 

involve religious practice).



Yes, the laws are there for a reason, and I think they should be adhered to 

by those who don't see these ultimately unexplainable sides of it.  If you 

don't know (or believe in) what I'm talking about then, by all means stick 

with the law.  It's a great guideline.



'Ethical' and 'legal are not necessarily one and the same.



Daphne



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Ethical Wildcrafting

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:53:01 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



----- Original Message -----

From: "Daphne Saul" <dtstsz91@hotmail.com>

> Yes, the laws are there for a reason, and I think they should be adhered

to

> by those who don't see these ultimately unexplainable sides of it.  If you

> don't know (or believe in) what I'm talking about then, by all means stick

> with the law.  It's a great guideline.

>

> 'Ethical' and 'legal are not necessarily one and the same.

>



I hate to clutter up the list with "I agree!", but I wanted to chime in that

I "get" where Daphne and Charlie are coming from, and I tend to lean more

towards these philosophical beliefs, as well.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: olive leaf

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:32:22 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



hello all



firstly thanks for the information on beeswax de-mucking a great help!



my next question is:



does anyone have any information on the use of olive leaf in high blood

pressure, i havent come up wiht much information in my [brief] web trawl, or

my literature trawl. i am spending time in clinic with a medical doctor who

is using it with his patients, but nobody there could guide me to any

information.



thanks, i know you will be a great help!!



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Sterols and sterolins

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:25:30 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



There is an article in a newsletter distributed to health food stores titled

"Plant nutrient halts arthritis", referring to sterols and sterolins.  In a

later article in the same newsletter, "Pet care - a veterinarian's perspective",

a DVM explains the virtues of sterols and sterolins as he uses in his veterinary

practice.  A commercial sterols-and-sterolins product is mentioned, so I think

those articles may essentially be advertising.  Then there are more articles

mentioning sterols and sterolins and this commercial product.



Does anybody know if there is any substance to this, and if so, what plants

would be a good source of sterols and sterolins?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Wildcrafting

From: hkobayas <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:32:51 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Hideka Kobayashi <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu> :



First off, I am not entirely against collecting plants from the wild. It would 

be something I would avoid or would not consider in general.



However, I am afraid even suggesting collection of plants from a protected 

area or justifying this type of behavior is not really "ethical." I am not 

doing a PC thing, but isn't wild crafting from a State or a federal park 

prosecutable? Yes, you can express your opinion at court, but I am not too 

sure if the judge will acquit you because you have "experience and discretion" 

as a seasoned herbalist.



In addition, if one person starts to collect plants from such an area, what 

would be the impact on their habitat as a whole? Should you let others do the 

same because you don't see the influence? If everybody starts collecting 

plants from protected areas, even something common might become scarce. The 

rapid decline of Echinacea angustifolia population has been reported in their 

habitat. I think some of them were growing in protected area.



I am well aware of the issue concerning wild vs. cultivated plants about their 

potency. Seeds of many medicinal plants and wild plants are available, so 

definitely there is an alternative. I just don't see avantages in advocating 

collecting plants from wild, especially from protected area.



Subject: Ethical Wildcrafting



<I recognize the plant...not the artificially created boundary, be it state,

federal, county, etc. If the population will support harvesting then I will do

so. The million dollar question is how big, diverse, etc. does a plant 

population have to be to collect from.  That is determined from the experience 

and discretion of the herbalist and from the direct impact of collection.  

Just like in any other profession you got good herbalists and bad herbalists.  

In this day and age a good herbalist must be an environmentalist and very 

conscious of his of her impacts on the natural world.



I would rather collect a plant in a park where it is literally a ground cover 

than in a not so coveted place where it is sporadic and sensitive to any 

upheaval.>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Wildcrafting

From: cadfile@juno.com

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:00:25 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Stan Mills <cadfile@juno.com> :



Enough all ready. I think we all get the point and all the rhetoric is

not going to change anybody's mind at this point. I think you are beating

a dead horse.



"Cadfile"



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Evening Primrose oil capsules

From: krw97@juno.com

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:08:37 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by K Williams <krw97@juno.com> :



does this really work for PMS?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Evening Primrose oil capsules

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:20:16 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>Sent to the herblist by K Williams <krw97@juno.com> :

>

>does this really work for PMS?

>

for some componets of my PMS yes like breast swelling and some of the 

mood swings but I have found that some of the women I have worked 

with it didn't help. I guess it depends on what their complaint is, 

diet how much caffeine  they imbibe, does their liver need to be 

addressed...Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Collecting from the wild

From: hkobayas <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:40:54 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Hideka Kobayashi <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu> :



I still do not completely understand why somebody has to insist collecting 

from the wild. I am well aware not all plants are "culturable." But many of 

them are. I really do not think it is a good (or "ethical") idea to adovocate 

or even suggest collecting from a State park, whether you think plant 

poppulation can sustain the collection or not. You can say whatever you want. 

But the thing is, such activities are clearly illegal, and I am a little 

concerned about bad image/reputation we may have because of this. And if you 

collect from a private land, and you need a permission. Of course you cannot 

grow everything, but growing your own plants seems to be more logical than 

going through all of this.



<Okay, then, I'll take part of it on.  Since this started I've been wondering

why anyone who has decided he/she is good enough to go above the law isn't 

good

enough to find the stuff out where it's legal. If it's in a park, there should

be some outside the park, shouldn't there?>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Collecting from the wild

From: "Daphne Saul" <dtstsz91@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:47:54 

--------

Sent to the herblist by Daphne Saul <dtstsz91@hotmail.com> :



Art said:



"Personally, I cannot understand why someone would feel that

humans are

the only animals who should not forage from the land, the only

critters

excluded from the thing we call nature. I feel sorry for those

folks,

and I fear them because they are dangerous."



I agree.  And I won't even get into the implications of this ideaology on 

the wild and 'cultivated' plant and animals worlds.



"The myth of the infallible government?....."



Hear, hear!!! Don't get me started!



No need for me to start anyway, you've done a fine job!



Daphne



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Collecting from the wild

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:05:57 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by Hideka Kobayashi <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu> :

> 

> I still do not completely understand why somebody has to insist collecting 

> from the wild.



Personally, I cannot understand why someone would feel that humans are 

the only animals who should not forage from the land, the only critters 

excluded from the thing we call nature. I feel sorry for those folks, 

and I fear them because they are dangerous.



Here, where I live, it's considered terribly unethical to let the 

burdock and the Queen Anne's lace live, let alone to cultivate them.

Here, they're just two of a long list of noxious weeds that displace

native species. If you were my neighbor and planted a field full of 

St. John's Wort, you'd likely be forced to pay the county for the 

eradication effort.



> I am well aware not all plants are "culturable." But many of 

> them are. 



And many of them should not be, and would not be by anyone who's taken 

the time to understand the local ecosystem, in accordance with the 

principle that there's no such thing as an action without consequence.

While it's mighty convenient for me to have local access to hypericum, 

I'd gladly give it up.



> I really do not think it is a good (or "ethical") idea to adovocate 

> or even suggest collecting from a State park, whether you think plant 

> poppulation can sustain the collection or not.



The myth of the infallible government? This would be the very same 

government that says you cannot even be told what kinds of toxic 

residue are known to be on the tomato you just bought at the grocery

store? (Import restrictions were lifted, and new laws enacted to 

protect the profit potentials of foreign agribusiness, to bring the 

US into compliance with NAFTA. I'm not making this up. Remember Oprah 

Winfrey's legal battle after she stated that she was swearing off 

hamburger? The only reason she got off was because it was determined 

that the law didn't apply to her specific case.)



If the government doesn't even care enough to keep you from eating 

known poisons, do you think it's going to care enough to fund the 

eradication of noxious weeds at some park where budget cuts prevent 

them from keeping all of the restroom facilities maintained? Or to 

employ a suitable number of suitably qualified biologists at each 

park to carefully consider the ecosystem(s) that exist(s) at each 

park, and either plan or prevent the harvest in the most 

environmentally beneficial manner?



> Of course you cannot 

> grow everything, but growing your own plants seems to be more logical than 

> going through all of this.



Beware the tenets of the ignorant, for no good comes from them.



How would I go about keeping my little plot of what I know as herbs 

from spreading their seed on the wind, in the exrement of birds, 

attached to the fibers of my socks or in the fur of a rabbit, and 

establishing them in my neighbor's sheep pasture where he calls them 

weeds, or up the road in Dinosaur National Monument where you'd call 

them protected?



There you have it, my most convincing argument. Can you convincingly 

argue against the collection of invasive imports that threaten native 

species?



:-)



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Collecting from the wild

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:55:34 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



hkobayas wrote:



> I still do not completely understand why somebody has to insist collecting

> from the wild. I am well aware not all plants are "culturable." But many of

> them are.

> Of course you cannot

> grow everything, but growing your own plants seems to be more logical than

> going through all of this.



But if you live where you can't grow plants, there's certainly no reason why you

can't wildcraft goldenrod or clover or other plants that aren't endangered.  I do.



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Collecting from the wild

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:45:04 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:05:57 -0600 Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

writes:

> Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :

> 

> > Sent to the herblist by Hideka Kobayashi 

> <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu> :

> > 

> > Here, where I live, it's considered terribly unethical to let the 

> burdock and the Queen Anne's lace live, let alone to cultivate them.

Marcia:

My neighbor sends her 19 year old boy to mow for me very early in the

season to prevent my "infested" lawn from showing plantain, violets, gill

over-the-ground ( nepeta glechoma, I think) and G-D FORBID my dandelions

which may let their white cloud seed pods fly in the breeze to her

"weed-free" green carpet of grass and ruin the neat green frontage.

And the whole town has a very similar feeling.



In an area where mowing makes linaria (toad flax) and other interesting

(weeds and/or herbal plants) disappear, I occasionally pull up one or two

roots and transplant them quickly to my back yard.  If they were going to

disappear through "landscaping" efforts, where is the ethical problem.

I haven't been through anything like hkobayas describes below, but the 

attitude is not missing.  Marcia



hkobayas continues:



> Here, they're just two of a long list of noxious weeds that displace

> native species. If you were my neighbor and planted a field full of 

> St. John's Wort, you'd likely be forced to pay the county for the 

> eradication effort.



Marcia:



Over the years I have seen herbals and other wild flowers/weeds disappear

simply through "landscape maintenance" in grassy areas near parking lots

green belts near recreation areas, and I have seen people allow the

orange berried bittersweet, that stoloniferous pest take over, kill wild

roses and raspberries and mulberries, and refuse prune enough to make a

nice dried arrangement, because of ignorance.  The public needs to be

educated.  Suggest you all think creatively and come up with suggestions,

because the situation is a _____ if you do and _____if you don't

situation.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE PROLIFERATION OF SUMAC TREES THAT SUDDENLY MADE A HOME

IN MY BACK YARD?



Good luck and good health to you all,

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Herb recall

From: "Poutinen, Jay" <jpoutine@uwsp.edu>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:52:51 -0500 

--------

Sent to the herblist by poutinen, jay <jpoutine@uwsp.edu> :



MedWatch: The FDA Safety Information and Adverse Event Reporting Program



Pacific BioLogic Co. is recalling capsules containing the herb Akebia

Trifoliata Caulis (Mu Tong) and the herb Asarum Sieboldii Herba cum Radix

(Xi Xin); as these herbs may present a serious health hazard to consumers.

These herbs contain aristolochic acid, a potent carcinogen and nephrotoxin

found in certain plants and botanicals. This chemical can cause serious

kidney damage and has been associated with several occurrences of kidney

failure. The use of aristolochic acid -containing products has been linked

to increased risk of kidney cancer in people who have consumed it.



For more info on specific products named in the recall and other

Aristolochic Acid safety alerts, see the 2001 MedWatch Safety Information

page at 

http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/safety/2001/safety01.htm#aristo



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: ethical wildcrafting

From: "plantpeople" <plantpeople@triton.net>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:26:48 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by plantpeople@triton.net :



 Here in the" desert" plantain is only alive in the early

> spring in areas where there has been enough water through the winter

> to produce germination and growth. there may be plantain seed under

> our very feet but if not enough water no plant and the seed will

>.....I would like to gather a small bit of it

> just in case I get stung by another scorpion , where do you purpose I

> gather it?



Perhaps this is not the right question.  Perhaps asking yourself - "What

other plant that is more prolific and reaily availble in  my ecosystem could

I use for scorpion bites?"

 I do not know the desert plants, but in my area (northern Michigan) I can

easily think of several dozen plants I could use for insect bites.   Surely

you could ask those familiar with your native/introduced flora and find a

more reaily available substitute - perhaps even one that you would be doing

a FAVOR to the ecosystem by gathering.



Joyce W - an herbalist who DOES wildcraft for commercial purposes - and

guess what?  After 20 years of doing so, my wild stands are in BETTER

conition for my having given them the attention and care that comes from

ethical wildcrafting.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: ethical wildcrafting

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:57:21 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



this is an excellent, thought provoking thread - thanks to everyone!



i personally do a little wildcrafting, i spend time with several people who

do it 'proffessionally' and NEVER fail to be impressed by their commitment

not only to the plant populations they harvest from but to passing on their

knowledge. these are not the people who are raping the earth - anything but!



i thank them for their conscientiousness



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: ethical wildcrafting

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:59:42 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>.....I would like to gather a small bit of it

> just in case I get stung by another scorpion , where do you purpose I

> gather it?



now from "plantpeople" <plantpeople@triton.net>:

) Perhaps this is not the right question.  Perhaps asking yourself - "What

) other plant that is more prolific and reaily availble in  my ecosystem could

) I use for scorpion bites?"



That person has reason for worrying about scorpion stings.  According to

Colin Fletcher, in "The Complete Walker" (1968), there are two quite small

sand-colored scorpion species found only in Arizona whose sting is serious,

sometimes fatal.  So it helps to have the right remedy.  But how would desert

plantain be kept for use in case of a scorpion sting, so as to retain its

effectiveness?



Joyce W, are there any scorpions in upper Michigan?  If so, their sting would be



comparable to a bee sting, nothing serious unless the person is allergic or

hypersensitive.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: licorice?

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:01:18 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



I know this is difficult without pictures, but I need help in identifying a 

plant.

I bought a planter a while back that was filled with various plants.  One of 

them, the grower said, is licorice.  The few pixs I have of licorice don't 

match.  This plant looks like a silvery-green, 'fuzzy' thyme plant.  The 

leaves are are slighlty larger than an actual thyme plant, but this plant 

that I have hangs like a thyme.  I don't notice any odor to it.  Any ideas?

phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: licorice?

From: Joan Russell <joanr@mindlink.net>

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:44:28 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by joanr@mindlink.net :



Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:

> 

> Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :

> 

> I know this is difficult without pictures, but I need help in identifying a

> plant.

> I bought a planter a while back that was filled with various plants.  One of

> them, the grower said, is licorice.  The few pixs I have of licorice don't

> match.  This plant looks like a silvery-green, 'fuzzy' thyme plant.  The

> leaves are are slighlty larger than an actual thyme plant, but this plant

> that I have hangs like a thyme.  I don't notice any odor to it.  Any ideas?



I have two kinds of licorice plants (official and Chinese).  There is no

scent to the leaves (just the root).  The photos start here and go to

next for the rest:



http://www.mycountrygarden.net/HGarden/HAZ/l/_1ch.lic.2.html



I wonder if what you have is a "licorice plant that you buy for hanging

plants".  I think it is a Helichrysum petiolatum...If it is this plant,

it is just an ornamental.  I looked for a photo on my site, I thought I

had one but I can't find it.  I use them every year in containers. Here

is a good photo I found:     http://www.dscole.com/catalog-companion.htm



Hope this helps.......................Joan



***********************************

joanr@mindlink.net

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: licorice?

From: Elizabeth Scotten <bek@timelessremedies.com>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:11:49 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



The plant in question is a type of Helichrysum. It always bothered me that

they call it "the licorice plant".



blessings - bek

-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: hollyhock

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:03:35 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



ok - another question.  i like to use all of the plants in my garden for one 

thing or another.  Is there any use for hollyhock?  I have many, many books - 

but not one mentions hollyhock.  I've heard some say it can be used like 

marshmallow.  Any cautions?  Any suggestions?

sweltering phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: hollyhock

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:04:36 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :

>

>ok - another question.  i like to use all of the plants in my garden for one

>thing or another.  Is there any use for hollyhock?  I have many, many books -

>but not one mentions hollyhock.  I've heard some say it can be used like

>marshmallow.  Any cautions?  Any suggestions?

>sweltering phebe



use it in place of marshmallow, from what I hear quite a bit of the 

commercial marshmallow are really  holllyhock roots. also use the 

flowers for tea.

Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: hollyhock

From: Elizabeth Scotten <bek@timelessremedies.com>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:14:25 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



on 8/8/01 6:03 PM, Herbmednurse@aol.com at Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:



> Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :

> 

> ok - another question.  i like to use all of the plants in my garden for one

> thing or another.  Is there any use for hollyhock?  I have many, many books -

> but not one mentions hollyhock.  I've heard some say it can be used like

> marshmallow.  Any cautions?  Any suggestions?

> sweltering phebe



It's sweltering here too!  I have used hollyhock like marshmallow - leaves

can be nice in soup. Look up Alcea - that's the genus.



blessings - bek

-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: hollyhock

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:48:01 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



see maud grieve for a description, it is used like marshmallow, and i think

the flowers are used in chinese medicine



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: pot marigold

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:08:12 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



last question!  :)

I have an established plant - calendula - it's about 8" tall with bright 

yellow-orange ray flowers.  The flowers last for a bit on the plant.  In the 

spring, I had some unknown flower seeds and scattered them around, and now 

they appear to be calendula also.  But they are much bigger - about 12" tall 

and spreading.   The flowers look much the same as my smaller plant, but the  

center of the flower turns a light brown and then the ray petals shrivel up 

quickly.  The leaves on both plants look exactly the same to me. Any 

suggestions?

much appreciation - phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: pot marigold

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 09:33:34 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>I have an established plant - calendula - it's about 8" tall with bright 

>yellow-orange ray flowers.  The flowers last for a bit on the plant.  In the 

>spring, I had some unknown flower seeds and scattered them around, and now 

>they appear to be calendula also.  But they are much bigger - about 12" tall 

>and spreading.   The flowers look much the same as my smaller plant, but the  

>center of the flower turns a light brown and then the ray petals shrivel up 

>quickly.  The leaves on both plants look exactly the same to me. Any 

>suggestions?



Taste the leaf of your confirmed calendula. It should be "salty, yucky - no

thanks, I don't want any more of that". (But it isn't toxic.)



Then taste a leaf of one of your unconfirmed calendulas. The same? Right, you've

got more calendula. Not the same? Spit it out, lady, spit it out; it's not a

calendula, you don't know what it is, and be sure you don't use it until you

have a positive ID.



There's lots of different cultivars of Calendula; some taller, some smaller;

some darker, some lighter. The centers of the flowers differ, too - some are

bright yellow, some are dark brown, some are somewhere in between. The centers

don't usually turn color, and the ray petals usually go all into a bunch and

fall off - that's calendula. They don't really shrivel. And smaller Calendula

flowers mature faster than the larger ones.



Cheers

Henriette (Pictures of Calendula online on my site.)



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Collecting from protected area

From: hkobayas <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:41:06 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Hideka Kobayashi <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu> :



Since somebody wrote this is enough already, I will keep it short. In the 

first message I stated I am not entirely against collecgting from the wild. 

And I wrote it was not a good idea to adovocate collecting from a State or a 

Fedral park. It is just a common sense.  The second one was basically the 

same, but gave a thought about growing them other than collecting them. I 

found the whole thread very interesting since people on other lsitservs I 

belong to (not Green Peace stuff) are generally against collecting from the 

wild. Or atleast it seems to me that way.



<It seems that you disbelieve in the existence of others, such as I>



You are stretching this too much. Please read my original posting if you do 

not mind.



<they're just two of a long list of noxious weeds that displace native 

species. >



I believe the original posting was about non-weedy Plantago species growing in 

a protected aera, I believe.



<The myth of the infallible government? This would be the very same government 

that says you cannot even be told what kinds of toxic residue are known to be 

on the tomato you just bought at the grocery store?>



Another stretch. I cleary wrote you can write whatever you wish just like you 

did. But advocating or indicating that you will or may committ a crime (even 

if it is rathet petty) is not simply smart. I really don't care even if the 

big gov. is lurking in here. But I would be careful anyway (maybe I have 

not???)



<Personally, I cannot understand why someone would feel that humans are the 

only animals who should not forage from the land, the only critters excluded 

from the thing we call nature. I feel sorry for those folks, and I fear them 

because they are dangerous.>



I agree. But who decides who can collect and how much from a protected area? 

If you are suggesting that somebody should lobby for this type of activity, 

just like quota for hunting deeror something, I would support and understand 

to 

a certain degree.



<There you have it, my most convincing argument. Can you convincingly argue 

against the collection of invasive imports that threaten native species?>



Again, that was no my point. It was about collecting from a "protected area" 

(State Park, etc), and assumingly native species such as Plantago species in 

the Arizona Park. To make it a little clear, I even used an example of decline 

of Echinacea angustifolia population.  I really do not care personally if 

somebody collects "weeds" (in a horticultural sense, may not be in the general 

sense). I clearly wrote not everything is "culturable," so you need to depend 

on some sources other than your own cultivated plants. I admit I did not mean 

to include noxious weeds, but then again, I have never wrote anything on 

invasive species.



If somebody decides to collect weeds from road sides or hiw/her own yard, that 

would be his/her decision.  I would be concerned about heavy metal 

contamination and other pollutants, though. I heard NIH has conducted some 

studies on heavy metal contamination of medicinal plants/preparation in US. I 

have not read the report yet.



<I haven't been through anything like hkobayas describes below, but the 

attitude is not missing.  Marcia>



Misquatation, Marcia.I did not write this. Art did.



>

>hkobayas continues:

>

>> Here, they're just two of a long list of noxious weeds that displace

>> native species. If you were my neighbor and planted a field full of

>> St. John's Wort, you'd likely be forced to pay the county for the

>> eradication effort.>



This, of course depends on where you live. So if you are in central Illinois, 

and trying to grow Hypericum, that would be perfectly fine (so I heard). I 

guess this has become a long message.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Collecting from protected area

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:43:33 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



 I understand that the following is Art's contribution not hkobayas, to

this thread:  Here, they're just two of a long list of noxious weeds that

displace  native species. If you were my neighbor and planted a  field

full of  St. John's Wort, you'd likely be forced to pay the county for 

the eradication effort.



 It wasn't super clear whose contribution it was from the message I 

replied to.   However, in non-protected areas like the edges of  parking

lots, and in some parks which are not designated as  protected, because

they get mowed for public recreation, some  interesting and useful

weeds/herbals get mowed and "disappeared",  and I think gathering is a

form of preservation.   I also feel there  is a great deal of ignorance

and the public does need some education, because they will kill plantain

and dandelions, but will allow  lythrum "loosestrife" and NewEngland

ragweed ( not ambrosia) to flourish.



 Good luck and good health,

 Marcia

 ---



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Collecting from protected area

From: "Cylise (cyli)" <cyli@tiny.net>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:38:59 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Cylise <cyli@tiny.net> :



> Sent to the herblist by Hideka Kobayashi <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu> :

> 

> Since somebody wrote this is enough already, I will keep it short. In the 

> first message I stated I am not entirely against collecgting from the wild. And

> I wrote it was not a good idea to adovocate collecting from a State or a Fedral

> park. It is just a common sense.  



I'll keep my response short, too.  I agree heartily.  But this is much like the 

email I once did with a NAMBLA member, who had his own ideas about government 

interference and protection as it affected him, personally. He knew better, so 

he'd do as he pleased.



Every state I've heard of has State Forests, where I believe it is legal to 

gather more than fruits and berries (though I'd check first if I were going to 

do any digging. Permission would probably be easily gotten).  I think darn near 

anything is legal on BLM land, if the particular species isn't protected.  I 

may agree with the ones who think the government has their heads stuck in a 

dark place, but only to a certain extent.  If you want to gather in State 

Parks, go to DNR meetings and lobby for herbal permits.  

--



rbc: vixen.  Fairly harmless.   Most of the time.



http://www.visi.com/~cyli



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: A different perspective

From: "Jimmie" <wolfclan@home.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 04:44:25 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



I've been reading this thread of changing subject lines and have watched all

you good folk ponder as to what is legal, ethical and your "right" to gather

medicines from the wild.



In the Americas, "traditional pharamacology" <pun intended> is based

entirely on Native American Ethnobotany, yet in reading all these words,

where has anyone taken into consideration the reverence that we do when

gathering this form of life that we have adopted as part of our living

family?



Little if any consideration is reflected in today's modern gathering

practices.  Medicines are taken without respect for the gift they offer us

humans.  People go out and take what they want, not what they need. What do

they give in return?



This land is known to me as my mother and she is very much alive people.

Medicines are a fragile gift, not a self-imposed right to plunder as you see

fit.  Treat them disrespectfully, and they will disappear.



If you're all so worried about the outcome of their future, perhaps you

should go and ask those who have been responsible for taking care of this

land for the past forty thousand years and see what them old ones have to

say about gathering.  You might be surprised.



Jimmie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: A different perspective

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:28:09 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



> where has anyone taken into consideration the reverence that we do when

> gathering this form of life that we have adopted as part of our living

> family?



I thought that it had been alluded to...



    "... others, such as I, in whose belief system the good of the 

     plant IS the good of the man. We would no sooner participate in

     the destruction of a plant population than we would participate

     in the stoning of one of our children." -- Me (Art)



    "This would include being aware of other locations of particular 

     plants, in addition to things that go beyond the scope of this 

     board (which often involve religious practice)." -- Daphne



Anything more would have been out of place in this particular 

discussion, I think, and unwelcome on this list: 



http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/archives/herblist/rules.html#rules



It's Henriette's list, and it's kind of her to share her resources with 

us. We should respect her wishes.



-- 

- Art



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: A different perspective

From: "Jimmie" <wolfclan@home.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:16:05 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



It's Henriette's list, and it's kind of her to share her resources with us.

We should respect her wishes.

I didn't start the debate, only added the views of myself and all

Traditional People, <not just Native> who observe Healing Plants as living,

breathing entities of our Earth.  Since the first Forests were cut down and

the soil scorched, the Medicines have suffered.  Acid Rain, PBBs and tons of

other pollution, poison the soil and hardly anything grows as it once did,

then on top of that, many, <not all> harvest without thought to next week,

next year or our generations of Medicine People to follow our own.  If in

saying this, causes me to cross some ethical line of the list rules, then

perhaps I am in the wrong place and an un-subbing would benefit everyone

involved.

With Kind Regards,

Jimmie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: A different perspective

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:27:39 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Jimmie,

         I respect your views. As with most rational debates--the process 

allows us to reanalyze  our own views and perceptions of our truth.  This 

can not but be good.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: A different perspective

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:32:17 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



> If in

> saying this, causes me to cross some ethical line of the list rules, then

> perhaps I am in the wrong place and an un-subbing would benefit everyone

> involved.



I wasn't suggesting any such thing, simply pointing out that I stop 

short of what I believe to be the boundary Henriette has defined.

Perhaps my perception is incorrect, and I'm stopping well past it, or 

maybe I'm still a hundred yards from it. 



My concern was for Henriette, not a ploy to run anyone off. That said, 

I'm going to shut up now and just try to learn what I can. For me, 

knowledge comes easier when I don't make it fight to swim upstream.



-- 

- Art



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: A different perspective

From: "Jimmie" <wolfclan@home.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:06:07 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



From: "Art Sackett":

"For me, knowledge comes easier when I don't make it fight to swim

upstream."



Ahh, but that is where the best Medicines grow, shh, don't tell anyone.



Jimmie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Wildcrafting--Observation-Opinion

From: "Daphne Saul" <dtstsz91@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:54:24 

--------

Sent to the herblist by Daphne Saul <dtstsz91@hotmail.com> :



Jimmy said...



"The Migrant workers came, they pulled up every sage plant by the

roots,

before it went to seed and now it no longer grows in that area.

Tens of

thousands of years it has grown there and in one Summer, it is

wiped out. Am

praying that it returns."



I take it that nobody saved any seeds?  'Twould be ideal if they had.



"Greed is sure to be the agent of our demise,"



Yup...That's capitalism for 'ya...and make no mistake, the laws are written 

for a capitalistic society.  I sure hope people wake up soon.



Daphne T. Saul



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Wildcrafting--Observation-Opinion

From: "Jimmie" <wolfclan@home.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:32:24 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



<Daphne wrote>

to those who have participated and drawn out ideas, I thank you.



I thank you as well.



All this talk has reminded me of a sad story that happened just three years

ago.  I gather sage in a sacred place in South Dakota just as my People have

gathered there for several millennia, but we never thought of it as ours, so

we didn't fence it in or post the land as private.



Sadly, the demand from those looking for spiritual shortcuts, drove the

price of this sage to over 16 dollars per lb at that time, <it climbs higher

in price every year>  So some entrepreneur thought what a great and

profitable idea it would be to bring some migrant workers to this area from

a nearby farm and "harvest" the sage for their personal gain.



The Migrant workers came, they pulled up every sage plant by the roots,

before it went to seed and now it no longer grows in that area.  Tens of

thousands of years it has grown there and in one Summer, it is wiped out. Am

praying that it returns.



Greed is sure to be the agent of our demise,

Jimmie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Indian reverence

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 10:33:18 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Jimmie,

         I think you must have been skimming over many of the ethical 

wildcrafting posts. Many touch on this "reverence" which you seem only to 

attach to the native Americans. True modern students of medical 

herbalogy/wildcrafting have long been ingrained with this reverence.  You 

assume again like other members of this list that we are out to rape the 

land for "our needs". I find this the furthermost from the truth of those 

who have spent years studying and wildcrafting herbs.  They all know how 

precious the medicinal herb is and you will find this reverence in their 

genes, unequivocally.

         Personally, I am a bit sick of all of this "reverence to mother 

earth" that has long been attributed to the native Americans.  I think you 

would find out that the native Americans were just as human as anyone 

else.  They appreciated the scarcity of game and plants as well as everyone 

else in times of famine which often would carry on into times of plenty.  I 

am sure they were as prone to waste as anyone else--such is human 

nature.  Most of the time they did not have the technological methods to 

over-harvest, even if they wanted to.  I might add that the one method of 

the primitives of herding wild game over cliffs--killing herds at a 

time--is not very conducive to this reverence myth, but an empty stomach is 

very forgiving.

         In summary all I am saying, your Native American "Reverence" is no 

less rare now among the herbal breathen as it may have been among your 

ancestors.  By the way, your "traditional (herbal) pharmacology" is not 

based entirely on Indian Herbal teachings. Far from it, most have very deep 

European traditions which were brought over with the immigrants.  And with 

our truly native plants found only here, such as poke root (which have no 

European tradition of treatment), that herb seems to have been far more 

investigated for its medicinal properties by the white man when compared 

with the simple benefits the Native Americans prescribed to it.



doug



---



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Indian reverence

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:12:02 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Jimmie,

         No, I think I have an open mind. I certainly feel one of the 

world's worse holocausts were perpetrated upon the native American 

populations by the USA.  But I am also a student of human nature and evil, 

greed, waste is a human condition, I am sure American natives are not 

immune from it. Who is to really say if ALL of the tribes of prehistory 

were really nature conservators above and beyond that of any non-industrial 

culture. You can not say and I can not say. We only rely on stereotypes and 

selected hand-me-down traditions to interpret our forefathers--shaded with 

our own perceptions.

         Your sage experience is indeed a rape of nature and I abhor it, 

like you.  But these people are not our people and they are not members of 

this list.



peace and respect,



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Indian reverence

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:30:42 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



> Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :

>

> Jimmie,

>          No, I think I have an open mind. I certainly feel one of the

> world's worse holocausts were perpetrated upon the native American

> populations by the USA.  But I am also a student of human nature and evil,

> greed, waste is a human condition, I am sure American natives are not

> immune from it.



Doug,



So what you are saying is that you believe that no one EXCEPT herbalists is

immune from these human conditions. And that all herbalists are?



Since I consider myself a herbalist, I wonder what other powers I have

accumulated

along with a modicum of plant knowledge.



Heidi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Indian reverence

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:18:11 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



----- Original Message -----

From: <polo@ccp.com>

To: <herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu>

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 11:33 AM

Subject: Indian reverence



> Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :

>

> Jimmie,

>          I think you must have been skimming over many of the ethical

> wildcrafting posts. Many touch on this "reverence" which you seem only to

> attach to the native Americans. True modern students of medical

> herbalogy/wildcrafting have long been ingrained with this reverence.  You

> assume again like other members of this list that we are out to rape the

> land for "our needs".



I don't know why this is such a touchy subject, and is fostering such sharp

(and rude I might add) rebuttals. The original thread started over whether

it was ethical

to wildcraft in protected areas. NO ONE condemned wildcrafting in

unprotected

areas. It really is two separate things, but somehow they have been lumped

together

so that if you are opposed to the idea of someone wildcrafting in a

protected area, then

you must be against wildcrafting anywhere and wildcrafters in general. No

so, but that

is how it is shaping up.



I also don't have a clue as to why this seems to be devolving into very

unsavory racial

quibbling. I would hope that that is just unintentional and won't become a

common

occurrence, but this is not the first post with a "us versus them" flavor.



I suggest you go back and re-read Jimmie's letter. Did he identify the

"entrepreneur", or are you the

one who is assuming that he is denigrating non-Native Americans? I think you

actually assume

a lot, and it is ironic that you then accuse him and "other members of this

list" of assuming.



Brings to mind the old joke about assuming, you know?



Heidi Scholes



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Indian reverence

From: "Jimmie" <wolfclan@home.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:19:46 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



 Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes:

"Did he identify the "entrepreneur", or are you the one who is assuming that

he is denigrating non-Native Americans? I think you

actually assume a lot, and it is ironic that you then accuse him and "other

members of this list" of assuming"



I wish it were so, that all Native American's were above being

Entrepreneurial of the medicines, and it doesn't stop there, you can go to

places like Pine Ridge in South Dakota and buy a murdered Eagle for $800

from certain Native individuals as well.



Jimmie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Indian reverence

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:51:27 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



I realize that Jimmie. No ethnic group is immune from it.



And for all I know the "entrepreneur" was a member of your own tribe.



ALL Native peoples are not honest and reverent and above base deeds. No

population is. This is the reason why you can't say that all herbalists are

honest and reverent and therefore above the law. Which was my original

contention



My point was that you didn't specify, he assumed (maybe correctly, who

knows?) and then griped about you and others assuming.



pot,kettle,black as they used to say.



Heidi



----- Original Message -----

From: "Jimmie" <wolfclan@home.com>

> I wish it were so, that all Native American's were above being

> Entrepreneurial of the medicines, and it doesn't stop there, you can go to

> places like Pine Ridge in South Dakota and buy a murdered Eagle for $800

> from certain Native individuals as well.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Indian reverence

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:38:17 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



My, My, Heidi,

         Aren't we touchy and bringing up the "race card", too.  Jimmie's 

original post implied the superiority of the native "reverence" in my mind 

(sorry if this perception was a wrong one): he writes, "...perhaps you 

should go and ask those who have been responsible for taking care of this 

land for the past forty thousand years and see what them old ones have to 

say about gathering. You might be surprised."

         I just take exception to this stereotype which has been fostered 

through the years. I am sorry if it came over as rude and sharp as you put 

it.  I apologize for that, it was never my intention.

         A far as this thread taking a new turn, so what?  Have we not had 

enough of the ethics of wildcrafting or do you want be to stay strictly on 

your thread topic--that is pretty dictatorial of you, Heidi.

         Sorry, about the "assuming" part of my post.  You are quite right. 

I should not assume anything about the list's position.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: ADMIN: wildcrafting threads

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:42:08 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



The discussion was interesting as long as it lasted, but most of the recent

posts have been more or less snide personal remarks (read "a flamewar in the

making").



That means that the discussion is now closed.



Cheers

Henriette, listowner.



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mulleinw

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:27:06 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



8< shnip



> Anyone use mullein in smoking mixtures? Do you know if drying it in the

> microwave will keep it moist and not allow it to dry brittle?



It doesn't specifically address microwaving, and I'm a fan of air 

drying so don't know about nuking herbs, but:



http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/smoking/smoke2.html#preparation



-- 

- Art



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mulleinw

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:30:03 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



Thanks Art

That is the material I read, and it got me thinking about nuking them just a

bit and then putting them in jars.

I now have a whole bunch of 1st year mullein, begging to be harvested.



Will have to try it and let you all know how it works.

Heidi



> Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :

>

> It doesn't specifically address microwaving, and I'm a fan of air

> drying so don't know about nuking herbs, but:

>

> http://www.teleport.com/~howieb/smoking/smoke2.html#preparation



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mulleinw

From: mango <j.kolling@chello.nl>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:37:08 +0200

--------

Sent to the herblist by mango <j.kolling@chello.nl> :



I'm looking for some Mullein herb and seeds, if you can spare any please let me

know.



Joel



> I now have a whole bunch of 1st year mullein, begging to be harvested.

>

> Will have to try it and let you all know how it works.

> Heidi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mulleinw

From: rja86@webtv.net (Renee and Jerry)

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:01:49 -0700 (PDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Renee <rja86@webtv.net> :



If mullein can be put in the freezer, can all herbs be put in freezer?

And do you dry them first before putting in?  How long can they be kept

in freezer?  Curious for future reference.  Thank you and have a nice

weekend.



Take care.



Love and Peace,  

Rene and Jerry







==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mulleinw

From: "Jimmie" <wolfclan@home.com>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:05:08 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



I personally, am a strong believer that a medicine's healing property<ies>

diminish as it ages.  As we all know, anything that you can do to slow that

process down, i.e. storing them in a dark cool place in an airtight

container will keep them "fresh" longer.



That teaching on freezing came to me from an odd source.  I watched a pbs

show of a man trying to keep corn on the cob as fresh as the day he picked

it.  He tried everything imaginable until he realized that the problem was,

that even though he had frozen the corn immediately, the fermenting process

continued from within the cob itself.



So what he did, he drilled the cob out with a steralized drill bit and

blanched the corn just enough to stunt the green within the cob from

fermenting.



I applied the same philosophy to my gathered medicines.  I later found out,

that the old ones used to bury medicines in sealed, water tight birch bark

baskets in the late summer/early fall as they were gathered and I am sure it

was for the same results.



Thank you for your well wishes for my weekend.  I wish the same warm wishes

for you and yours as well.



Jimmie



Sent to the herblist by Renee <rja86@webtv.net> :



If mullein can be put in the freezer, can all herbs be put in freezer?

And do you dry them first before putting in?  How long can they be kept

in freezer?  Curious for future reference.  Thank you and have a nice

weekend.



Take care.



Love and Peace,

Rene and Jerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mulleinw

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:04:12 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



Stopping that "aging" process is why you blanch vegetables before you can or

freeze them. If you just take

corn straight from the field and freeze it, it continues to "age", I guess

that's the same as fermenting in this case, and the end result is very tough

and flavorless (starchy).

Blanching (sticking it in rapidly boiling water for 1-2 minutes) stops the

conversion of sugars to starch, something that happens immediately when you

pick corn and other vegetables.



I don't think blanching is an option with most herbs, though, since I think

the medicinal properties would leach out into the water.

You might try vacuum packing them before you blanch them, though. Kind of

like "boil in the bag".



I have actually been experimenting with using the microwave to stop that

conversion. I am finding that most herbs and flowers dry well and retain a

lot of color if I nuke them for 1 or 2 - 20 second intervals at 50% power

with a minute of rest in between. I get them just warm and then I let them

dry outside of the microwave on paper towels. They dry very quickly this way

and I am hoping that the retention of color means that they are also

retaining their medicinal value.



Flowers that I dried this way last year, still have all of their original

color more than a year later, even exposed to light. (I framed them)



Of course YMMV



Heidi



> Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :

>

> So what he did, he drilled the cob out with a steralized drill bit and

> blanched the corn just enough to stunt the green within the cob from

> fermenting.

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mullein

From: "Jimmie" <wolfclan@home.com>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:17:27 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jimmie <Wolfclan@home.com> :



The Mullen that I grow, is over 7 feet tall this year.  I gather the leaves

just before they start to dry out and freeze them in Ziplocs.  When I need

to use it, I take just what I need from the bag and leave the rest in the

freezer for another day.  I take the leaves and place them on a metal tray

and into an oven that has a pilot light going and keep them there overnight.

In the morning, they have dried out enough to stay lit.  Good for chest

colds.



I would imagine that the microwave would give the same drying results, but

am personally worried that the excessive amount of heat could damage or

alter the healing properties of the leaf.  If smoking it is for flavor

rather than healing, this concern would be of no consequence.



With kind regards,

Jimmie



> Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :

>

> Thanks Art

> That is the material I read, and it got me thinking about nuking them just

a

> bit and then putting them in jars.

> I now have a whole bunch of 1st year mullein, begging to be harvested.

>

> Will have to try it and let you all know how it works.

> Heidi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mullein

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:34:38 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



speaking of mullein there has been so much rain here this year I have 

several volunteer plants in my zeriscaped yard . Quite amazing the 

closest other plants I have seen are about 3000 feet above here. I 

have watered them this summer on the days it doesn't rain and even on 

the days it does rain when it is 110 degrees. I hope they will make 

it for another year or 2.

sharon in tucson with miracle mullein plants



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Mullein

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:15:49 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



I'm going to harvest as soon as I can get out there. I should have more herb

than I need once it is dry.



I also left one huge mature plant smack in the middle of my flower beds,

much to the chagrin of my more

"haute-i-culturally" inclined neighbors. ;-P



So I should have some seed, I can snag you.

Email me privately with your snail addy and I will see what I can do.



Heidi



> Sent to the herblist by mango <j.kolling@chello.nl> :

>

> I'm looking for some Mullein herb and seeds, if you can spare any please

let me

> know.

>



---



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Evening Primrose

From: Tracy LaFrance <t.lafrance@sympatico.ca>

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:24:27 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Tracy LaFrance <t.lafrance@sympatico.ca> :



I am NEW to the list...Recently someone I know was in the process of

"landscaping" a vacant lot, full of evening primrose.  Knowing that it

was about to be destroyed,

and on its way to a landfill site, I gathered as much as I could and am

drying it....I have been researching on the net on what to do with it, I

have the whole plants, sadly roots and all.  All that I could find

was....roasting the dried seed pods and using as a seasoning.  Does

anyone have info. on how to use the roots, the seed pods, or leaves, I

would greatly appreciate it.   Will olive oil draw out the medicinal

properties in the seeds, or by making a tincture ?  I would love to make

a cream, if I knew which part to use, and how?  I would like to think

that its fate was something more than the site it was heading too!!!



With thanks

Tracy



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Evening Primrose

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 02:56:05 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



from Tracy LaFrance <t.lafrance@sympatico.ca> :



  I am NEW to the list...Recently someone I know was in the process of

  "landscaping" a vacant lot, full of evening primrose.  Knowing that it

  was about to be destroyed,

  and on its way to a landfill site, I gathered as much as I could and am

  drying it....I have been researching on the net on what to do with it, I

  have the whole plants, sadly roots and all.  All that I could find

  was....roasting the dried seed pods and using as a seasoning.  Does

  anyone have info. on how to use the roots, the seed pods, or leaves, I

  would greatly appreciate it.   Will olive oil draw out the medicinal

  properties in the seeds, or by making a tincture ?  I would love to make

  a cream, if I knew which part to use, and how?  I would like to think

  that its fate was something more than the site it was heading too!!!

(end of quote)



John Lust has an entry for evening primrose in The Herb Book.  Medicinal part is

the plant, I don't know if that includes the roots.  It can be used for an

infusion, for coughs associated with colds, or ointment, for rashes and other

skin irritations.  I have no personal experience.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: local remedies, was ethical gathering

From: "plantpeople" <plantpeople@triton.net>

Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:02:07 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by plantpeople@triton.net :



> That person has reason for worrying about scorpion stings.  According to

> Colin Fletcher, in "The Complete Walker" (1968), there are two quite small

> sand-colored scorpion species found only in Arizona whose sting is

serious,

> sometimes fatal.  So it helps to have the right remedy.  But how would

desert

> plantain be kept for use in case of a scorpion sting, so as to retain its

> effectiveness?

>

> Joyce W, are there any scorpions in upper Michigan?  If so, their sting

would be

> comparable to a bee sting, nothing serious unless the person is allergic

or

> hypersensitive.



We have no scorpions that I am aware of in Upper Michigan, therefore, we

really have no local traditions for herbal remedies against scorpion stings.

However, I have utter faith that in the southwest where scorpions are a

problem, there are local traditions, using common local plants to treat

scorpion stings - especially if they are nothing to mess around with.

People survive by learning how to defend themselves against the perils of

their environment.  With a little research, I am sure information could be

found about plants to use in her area for scorpion stings other than

plantain.  Perhaps some one on this list is familiar with the flora of that

region and can assist.

The point I was trying to make was that in any given area, there is usually

found a multiple of plant remedies for the perils of that

ecosystem...especially if plant populations are seasonal.  Here, tree bark,

buds, evergreens and a few winter hardy plants that grow near running water

were heavily relied on in the deep months of winter.  What was use in the

desert during the dry season?  A particular Cactus?  Succulents? Or were the

scorpions polite enough to leave people alone during the dry months? :-))

Jouce W



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: 2 questions

From: "rochelle" <rochelle@ntlworld.com>

Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:26:12 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by rochelle <rochelle@ntlworld.com> :



1. Is it the Marshmallow leaves or roots I need for a mouth infection? I buy

my herbs as tinctures and make up gargles.



2. I have a large fennel plant I grew this year. Will there be a fennel bulb

underneath and when do I harvest it!!!



Regards,

Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release Date: 07/08/01



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: 2 questions

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:17:13 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



From rochelle <rochelle@ntlworld.com> :



>1. Is it the Marshmallow leaves or roots I need for a mouth infection? I buy

>my herbs as tinctures and make up gargles.



>2. I have a large fennel plant I grew this year. Will there be a fennel bulb

>underneath and when do I harvest it!!!



I think marshmallow leaves or roots are soothing but not antibiotic or

antiseptic.



Whether fennel produces a bulb depends on the variety, and even if you have the

bulb-forming variety, that depends on growing conditions.  I've had fennel of

the bulb-producing variety that didn't come to much more than seedlings.  As for

when to harvest, the time is not so fixed as with tomatoes or other fruit crop,

you have to see what you get.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: 2 questions

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:51:48 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



>Thanks Thomas, I was beginning to despair of the list thinking my question

>was maybe too basic but do I take it from your reply that it wouldn't matter

>which I put into a gargle together with Calendula, Hypericum, Echinacea and

>maybe Sage for a sore throat?



>Regards, Rochelle



I am not really sure what to use for a gargle for sore throat.  John Lust, in

The Herb Book, has a list of herbs under SORE THROAT heading, and Althea, which

is marshmallow, and sage, are among those many herbs marked as especially

suitable for gargle.



Now I'd like to know what to gargle for throat tickle, which is my main throat

problem, and almost certainly not infectious.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: 2 questions

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:01:38 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>Now I'd like to know what to gargle for throat tickle, which is my main throat

>problem, and almost certainly not infectious.



Hyssop.



Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Jewelweed

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:50:44 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



I attended an excellent "ethnobotany walk" this weekend at the

Connecticut College Arboretum.  The leader of the walk, a young botany

professor from France, pointed out jewelweed, stating it had prevented

him from getting a rash after exposure to poison ivy, to which he is

very sensitive.  He said he crushed the leaves and applied them to his

skin.  I had always been told that it's the gooey stuff in the stems

that is the most effective part.  Does anyone know?



Thanks,

May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Jewelweed

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:54:20 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:50:44 -0400 May Terry <mterry@snet.net> writes:

> Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :

> 

> I attended an excellent "ethnobotany walk" this weekend at the

> Connecticut College Arboretum.  The leader of the walk, a young 

> botany  professor from France, pointed out jewelweed, stating it had 

> prevented  him from getting a rash after exposure to poison ivy, to

which he is  very sensitive.  He said he crushed the leaves and applied

them to his  skin.  I had always been told that it's the gooey stuff in

the stems

 that is the most effective part.  Does anyone know? Thanks, May



It is the gooey stuff in the stems,and while he may have caught up a

leaf, and there might be some extractive in the crushed leaf, but the

major substance is in the crushed stem, which btw is kind to insect

bites, also.

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Jewelweed

From: "Pamela Quayle" <herbgatherer@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:34:53 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Pamela Quayle <herbgatherer@hotmail.com> :



  He said he crushed the leaves and applied

> them to his  skin.  I had always been told that it's the gooey stuff in

> the stems

>  that is the most effective part.  Does anyone know? Thanks, May

>

> It is the gooey stuff in the stems,and while he may have caught up a

> leaf, and there might be some extractive in the crushed leaf, but the

> major substance is in the crushed stem, which btw is kind to insect

> bites, also.

> Marcia



I find that up until July (in New England) the stems are much more potent,

thereafter the stems become woody as the plant begins to flower (and attract

hummingbirds) and the leaves are the more potent part.  I gather it in June

to make oil and to freeze a slurry of stem and leaf.



Pamela



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Jewelweed

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj@nac.net>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:09:32 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by William Jacobson <williamj@nac.net> :



I just mash up the jewelweek in a blended and slap it on, or if working in

the garden I smash some on my arms and hands and give myself a slather

before going in and washing up.



The gooey stuff is lost when the weed dries.  So the best way to keep some

is to smash it up in the blender and then pour it into an ice cube tray.

When frozen, separate the blocks and put them into a bag in the freezer.

When you need some jewelweed, just thaw out a single cube.



Bill



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: cataracts

From: mh <drductape@texoma.net>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:58:04 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by the doctor <drductape@texoma.net> :



Hi

I have a 31 year old horse who is developing cataracts. Do you know of any 

treatments that would slow or better yet reverse this process?



Thanks

Mary 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:04:35 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



         In response to: "Are cataracts reversible with medication? If so, 

why do people go for cornea transplants?



Thanks.

Kevin Chisholm"



Dear Kevin,

         To the best of my knowledge, surgical correction is probably the 

best modern medicine can offer for cataracts. I know of no commonly used 

chemical means of correcting lens opacities. Isn't this where herbal 

medicine is usually considered by the masses, (:>)? When no apparent hope 

exists in modern therapeutics?

         I am from Missouri ("I will believe it, when I am shown."), but I 

find the statements attributed to Schultze about his helping/curing 

cataracts rather interesting and worth looking into.  You are right, "One 

can not knock success" and one should find a long line of cataract 

candidates lining up to be cured by cayenne by the Schultze's method--if it 

were indeed efficacious.



suspicious, but intriguing,



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Herbs effective against trichomonas

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:08:12 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



Does anyone know what herbs are specifically effective against trichomonas?

I've been able to find grapefruit seed extract and goldenseal as herbs that

are specifically known to be effective (anyone know if Oregon Grape would be

as effective as goldenseal?). What about garlic? Any other herbs? Anyone

know of general treatments? I've heard that trichomonas needs an alkaline

environment, so perhaps a vinegar douche?



Thanks for any feedback.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Herbs effective against trichomonas

From: "Demetria" <demetria@demetria.com>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:17:49 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Demetria <demetria@demetria.com> :



Agrimony~



Echinacea

The tincture was able to reduce both the rate of growth and the rate of

reproduction of Trichomonas vaginalis especially combined with Calendula

Both internal and topical application would work



L.bulgaricus, L.acidophilus and the bifidobacteria  are extremely useful



Oregon Grape or Goldenseal would probably both be effective using a whole

plant extract of course.



I hope this helps..I am thinking purple loosestrife and thuja may also be

extremely helpful.

Demetria

Goddess Garden

http://www.demetria.com

Holistic Herbal Skin Care Products for the Whole Family. Vegetarian and

Organic

Heart of Herbs

http://www.heartofherbs.com

Herbal, Aromatherapy and Doula Education.

Apprenticeships, Correspondence and Workshops.

Check out our new look!



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Herbs effective against trichomonas

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:36:20 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



my favourite herb for a vaginal discharge is lamium album - white dead

nettle, i dont know if that would be applicable here?

i would use it as a tea and use a little thuja, tea tree, garlic and

calendula for a topical treatment



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:  Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:22:54 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Dear Mary,

         Funny your timing. I am on another list in which cataracts are 

being discussed now. One member posted part of the following:



"...an excerpt from the book "Curing With Cayenne" by Sam Biser:

....Dr. SCHULZE: We have the eyebright formula I inherited from my teacher 

Dr. John Christopher--but I've improved it a lot by adding much more 

cayenne than was ever in it.

EYEBRIGHT FORMULA:

The new Dr. Schulze formula is equal parts of eyebright herb, bayberry 

bark, red raspberry, and goldenseal and one half to one full part of cayenne.

         Use the tincture as an eye wash. Put five to ten drops into an 

eyecup, along with distilled water. Wash your eyes with it six times a day 

for severe cases and use internally, three to six dropperfuls a day.

         Well, Dr. Christopher put in one-eighth part cayenne, that was his 

high dosage of cayenne. I started adding four to eight times that for the 

average person. That becomes one-half to one full part of cayenne, and the 

cayenne I recommend is 250,000 heat units strong.

I have not seen any real effect with that formula without the cayenne. I 

have never met or run into anybody who said they only used eye bright and 

healed their eyes. It just didn't happen. But here in the clinic, I saw 

people get rid of their glasses and _I saw lots of cataracts go away.>>"



         I found the above post very interesting and of possible 

application to veterinary medicine.  You need to make sure you have the 

proper formula, and you could infuse the wash into the equine eye via the 

lacrimal ducts. This is done with a syringe full of the infusion and a 

tomcat catheter. If interested, I can give you more detailed methodology on 

this procedure.



good luck,



Doug  A.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: "Heidi Scholes" <hscholes1@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:16:13 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



Just a question



Does the cayenne sting the eyes?



Heidi



----- Original Message ----- 

> Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :

> 

> Dear Mary,

>          Funny your timing. I am on another list in which cataracts are 

> being discussed now. One member posted part of the following:

<snip Dr. Christopher's recipe>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: "Scott and Aliceann Carlton" <carlton@midrivers.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:38:10 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Aliceann and Scott Carlton <carlton@midrivers.com> :



Yes, it hurts and putting it in a horse's eyes is not only unkind but also

dangerous

to whoever is in the way of a frightened flying body weighing 1000 pounds.



A lot of horses develop cataracts and if this fellow is 31 then I'd

certainly consider palliative rather than curative help.......even with

impaired vision, quality of life isn't necessarily affected.  Feed nice

carrots, provide fresh grass and properly cured hay (dry and green

forVitamin A/ Carotene) keep

his face clear of tears, and be his friend and guide.



Aliceann

----- Original Message -----

From: Heidi Scholes

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:16 AM

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts



Sent to the herblist by Heidi Scholes <hscholes1@earthlink.net> :



Just a question



Does the cayenne sting the eyes?



Heidi



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:54:15 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



         In response to:  "Yes, it hurts and putting it in a horse's eyes 

is not only unkind but also dangerousto whoever is in the way of a 

frightened flying body weighing 1000 pounds.

>         A lot of horses develop cataracts and if this fellow is 31 then I'd

>certainly consider palliative rather than curative help.......even with

>impaired vision, quality of life isn't necessarily affected.  Feed nice

>carrots, provide fresh grass and properly cured hay (dry and green

>forVitamin A/ Carotene) keep

>his face clear of tears, and be his friend and guide.

>

>Aliceann"



Dear Aliceann,

         Again, with all potent herbs, dosage and concentration is all 

important. One should initially seek a "warming' affect which will 

stimulate ocular circulation in the horse. Your  "hurting/painful" 

suggestion would mean you were using too high concentrations of cayenne, 

initially. As far as being "dangerous", one has to use common sense with 

horses and know how to deal with them. For instance, I have spent many 

years extracting wolf teeth from young horses with only the aid of the 

twitch. This would be compared and contrasted to many vets who would 

heavily, chemically sedate a horse under the same procedure--totally 

unnecessary.

         Carrots and hay will not cure cataracts. You are right, one must 

take into consideration the physical condition and age of the horse. An old 

horse probably should be left alone, but then if this eyewash is of 

use--who is to really say?  To follow the MD's creed: "Do no (permanent) 

harm."  I have seen cataracts in foals which I would be very tempted to try 

to help at such an early age using this wash. It all depends on many things.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: "Scott and Aliceann Carlton" <carlton@midrivers.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:20:44 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Aliceann and Scott Carlton <carlton@midrivers.com> :



I think that was the point Doug.....a 31 y.o. horse is not a foal.....and a

foal developing cataracts needs attention to the underlying condition most

of all.  Horses that age are in a vata stage of life....just as elderly

people are.  Excellent nutrition, increased absorbable oils.....flax meal

etc to keep the caecum functioning will do much to arrest the growth of

cataracts and other vata type conditions even if a "cure" is not achievable.

Horses that go totally blind function very well in pasture as well as under

saddle.......they use their senses well.



I would consider adding a pinch of cayenne to feed long before I'd use it to

promote warmth on an ocular area through a wash.  We'll have to differ on

approach I guess.



Consider that if you are diluting to the point that there is no irritative

effect then you lose the medicinal quality of the herb.....and others, less

risky, can easily be substituted.  Additionally, increasing blood and

viscous fluid  to the eye can just as easily promote cataract growth as

counter-irritant healing.  I'm sure you remember the days of soring to

promote high action in saddlebreds etc...........by putting irritants on the

pasterns and then applying all manner of chains and abrasive ropes and

weights to the area...do you remember seeing the huge scars that formed from

that practice?



My history with horses...riding, competing, training, and teaching/coaching

spans 40 plus years.....vets were rarely seen over that period of time and

quiet handling made it possible to treat painful cuts and conditions

effectively and without injury to handler or animal.  So I understand where

you are coming from.....just a matter of different approach I guess.



Best Regards,



Aliceann



Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Dear Aliceann,

         Again, with all potent herbs, dosage and concentration is all

important. One should initially seek a "warming' affect which will

stimulate ocular circulation in the horse. Your  "hurting/painful"

suggestion would mean you were using too high concentrations of cayenne,

initially. As far as being "dangerous", one has to use common sense with

horses and know how to deal with them. For instance, I have spent many

years extracting wolf teeth from young horses with only the aid of the

twitch. This would be compared and contrasted to many vets who would

heavily, chemically sedate a horse under the same procedure--totally

unnecessary.

         Carrots and hay will not cure cataracts. You are right, one must

take into consideration the physical condition and age of the horse. An old

horse probably should be left alone, but then if this eyewash is of

use--who is to really say?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 02:40:31 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Dear Aliceann,

	Point taken about the equine "old boys". LOL, be careful about what you 

say about "soring" Saddlebreds. I grew up exhibiting American Saddlebreds, 

and I assure you there was no deliberate irritation involved in that breed. 

You are thinking of the Tennessee Walking horse and that pitiful running 

walk those people so crave in the show ring. Yes, that is an abomination. 

Ahhhh, soring does not produce "high action" as you put it. It was used on 

walking horses to cause them not to want to put weight on the front legs 

and thus engage a longer stride behind to stimulate the type of show ring 

running walk so desirable and manmade and painful. In other words, the hind 

legs were supporting more body weight to take the weight off of the front 

end to achieve that gait type.

	Ok, maybe nutrition might help, but I wouldn't want to hold my breath 

using that strategy. I am always after the quick relieve, arrest, or cure, 

but to each his/her own--I have an open mind.  Sometimes "no action" is the 

best action.

	As far as diluting the cayenne to the point that there is no affect. True 

such a cayenne wash would probably have minimal value, but the point is it 

will give you a reference point to work from until you observe the desired 

affect you are seeking in the eye. You would want a warming affect, a 

stimulation of ocular circulation.  Schultze believed that cayenne was a 

sort of catalyst for the other herbs, as well as being beneficial in its 

own right. I need to study the Schultze's treatment further and know what 

he looks for and wants to achieve.  As I stated in an earlier post, I have 

not personally used this wash formula, but find it intriguing and worth 

experimenting with.  I have heavily employed counter-irritation 

(injectables, leg paints, etc.) in other equine uses with excellent results 

and have an idea what to generally look for.

	I don't particularly believe that increased ocular blood supply 

stimuilates cataracts. To tell you the truth, I am not sure that veterinary 

science really knows the cause of these lens opacities, though they 

certainly have their theories.  I am impressed with the reputation of 

Christopher and Schultze. Schultze has spent years using cayenne and he 

seems to feel it to be of benefit with cataracts.



Food for thought,



doug



  



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:45:17 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by Aliceann and Scott Carlton <carlton@midrivers.com> :



> A lot of horses develop cataracts and if this fellow is 31 then I'd

> certainly consider palliative rather than curative help.......even with

> impaired vision, quality of life isn't necessarily affected.  



My folks inherited a pony with the purchase of their land -- he'd lived 

there since birth, and previous attempts to sell him or give him away 

had failed. He'd break out and go home again, from as far as 18 miles 

away. He was about 30 at the time my folks bought his ranch. He 

eventually went blind, but wasn't much affected by it. He'd run the 

at a gallop, turning just short of trees, corrals, and whatever else 

had been there since last time he could see it.



The tricky part was keeping the section he was in clear of new 

obstacles. A wind-downed tree would take him by surprise, even at just 

walking speed, unless it was breezy and he could hear the wind 

whispering through its leaves, or he'd catch a sniff of it. He'd avoid

an area where he'd heard a chainsaw running for about a week, apparently

having found some downed trees or brush  piles a time or two. Once he 

found a thing the hard way, though, he remembered the spot, and would go

around it even after it was gone.



I didn't see it, but Dad told me of a time when the pony lost his 

bearings for a while, after being terrorized by a visitor's ill-behaved 

dogs. Dad said he had to walk him around the property for a while with 

his hand on the little guy's muzzle, and if he removed his hand the 

pony would just stop and not move. He said that once he figured out 

where he was, though, he trotted ahead as he often did, just as though 

nothing had happened. 



The last thing the pony did was his usual walk around the property with

my dad, after a nice breakfast of alfalfa hay. A few hours later, he was

found dead, a few feet from the very spot where he'd landed at birth.  



He probably noticed the loss of vision, didn't seem to be too terribly 

affected by it. He could sneak up on a person with great skill, and it 

was one of his favorite games. It's humbling to be snuck up on by a 

blind pony.



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:25:41 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Art,

         Interesting story about your pony. Just proves that horses are 

creatures of habit. This is the reason why a horse will often run back into 

a burning barn when they are taken out to be freed. They find the barn by 

HABIT a safe place, even it isn't.  Not very smart animals when compared to 

other animals.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:32:44 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com> :



Now, now Doug.  Don't get my dander up!  :o)



Thank you for the information on the book about cayenne.  I find it a great

help in (*externally*) treating laminitis on my 17 year old mare and plan to

really research all what it can do this winter.





polo@ccp.com wrote:



> "Not very smart animals when compared to

> other animals."

>

> doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:42:44 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Art Sackett <medherb@artsackett.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :

> 

>          Interesting story about your pony. Just proves that horses are 

> creatures of habit. This is the reason why a horse will often run back into 

> a burning barn when they are taken out to be freed. They find the barn by 

> HABIT a safe place, even it isn't.  Not very smart animals when compared to 

> other animals.



Dogs are the same way -- their safe place is wherever they sleep, even 

if it's on fire.



Sheep follow woolly butts. It's what makes them feel safe, even if that

woolly butt is two steps from the edge of a cliff. (Bison, too. I used 

to live a couple hundred yards from a buffalo jump... )



Maybe it's not a matter of intelligence, but of instinct:



I know a guy who lives in South Central Los Angeles, has bars on his

windows and doors, bullet holes in his stucco house, and doesn't keep   

dogs any more because they kept getting shot. When I asked him why a    

guy who makes decent wages wants to live in a place like that, his 

answer was, "This is my home. I grew up here. I raised my children 

here. They are NOT going to run me out of MY HOME."



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:35:27 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Art,

	Point well taken. Definition for "home" is where one feels safe. Emphasis 

on the word "feel" here.



thanks,



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:29:55 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Response to "Does the cayenne sting the eyes?



Heidi"



Dear Heidi,

	I am sure it could be uncomfortable in large concentrations. The key is to 

start out gradually and work up in concentrations enough to achieve the 

ocular circulatory stimulation desired.  Particularly when dealing with 

horses, one should start out very slowly in all things and gradually 

increase one's demands on this animal.  The best preliminary exercise with 

such a horse is to use normal sterile saline first as eye drops or 

lacrimally to get the horse accustomed to this delivery procedure before 

ever actually treating the eye with an herbal infusion.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:54:59 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



polo@ccp.com wrote:



> "...an excerpt from the book "Curing With Cayenne" by Sam Biser:

> ....Dr. SCHULZE: We have the eyebright formula I inherited from my teacher

> Dr. John Christopher--but I've improved it a lot by adding much more

> cayenne than was ever in it.

> EYEBRIGHT FORMULA:

> The new Dr. Schulze formula is equal parts of eyebright herb, bayberry

> bark, red raspberry, and goldenseal and one half to one full part of cayenne.

>          Use the tincture as an eye wash. Put five to ten drops into an

> eyecup, along with distilled water. Wash your eyes with it six times a day

> for severe cases and use internally, three to six dropperfuls a day.



Ummm, to put it bluntly, doesn't this hurt like hell?  I remember making a

Szechuan recipe once with cayenne peppers, and absentmindedly rubbing my

eyes...flushing them with water was all I did for the remainder of the day.



May

--

Death is our body's way of telling us to slow down.   ---Ryan Drum



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:35:28 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



In response to:  "Ummm, to put it bluntly, doesn't this hurt like hell?  I 

remember making a

Szechuan recipe once with cayenne peppers, and absentmindedly rubbing my

eyes...flushing them with water was all I did for the remainder of the day.



May"



Dear May,

         Yes, I am sure under improper formulation a cayenne eye wash would 

be very bad news. As with any potent herb, dosage is all important and one 

must be conservative in initial treatment until one gets a "handle" on how 

that individual organism reacts.  The smallest dosage of any herb should 

probably be the criteria utilized in its application to achieve the desired 

affect.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Equine cataracts

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:00:59 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Miikkali Leppihalme <leppihalme@quartal.com> :



May:

> I remember making a Szechuan recipe once with cayenne

> peppers, and absentmindedly rubbing my eyes...flushing

> them with water was all I did for the remainder of the day.



Didn't much help, did it? Capsaicin, the HOT constituent in chili peppers,

is not water soluble. Then again, I'd hesitate to rinse my eyes with alcohol

or oil, even though Capsaicin is soluble in both.



-

M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: "michelle" <mlaksmi@xprs.net>

Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:41:29 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by michelle <mlaksmi@xprs.net> :



> I remember making a Szechuan recipe once with cayenne

> peppers, and absentmindedly rubbing my eyes...flushing

> them with water was all I did for the remainder of the day.



Didn't much help, did it? Capsaicin, the HOT constituent in chili peppers,

is not water soluble. Then again, I'd hesitate to rinse my eyes with alcohol

or oil, even though Capsaicin is soluble in both.



Actually,

Rinsing the eye with a bland oil is THE thing to do(or breastmilk!!)-

especially when an essential oil or other oil soluble irritant enters the

eye-

It works.



Michelle



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:36:40 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



"Leppihalme, Miikkali" wrote:



> May:

> > I remember making a Szechuan recipe once with cayenne

> > peppers, and absentmindedly rubbing my eyes...flushing

> > them with water was all I did for the remainder of the day.

>

> Didn't much help, did it? Capsaicin, the HOT constituent in chili peppers,

> is not water soluble. Then again, I'd hesitate to rinse my eyes with alcohol

> or oil, even though Capsaicin is soluble in both.



Well, it eventually carried out the oil on the flood of saline solution.  The

"remainder of the day" was a bit of an exaggeration, but it did take a while

before I was comfortable again.  Anyway, the point is, not sure I'd be putting

it in my eyes on purpose, no matter who recommends it.



I was also told once, that, contrary to popular belief, cayenne would soothe my

stomach.  Don't believe that one either.



May

--

Death is our body's way of telling us to slow down.   ---Ryan Drum



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:40:30 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



In response to:  "Didn't much help, did it? Capsaicin, the HOT constituent 

in chili peppers,

is not water soluble. Then again, I'd hesitate to rinse my eyes with alcohol

or oil, even though Capsaicin is soluble in both.



-

M"



Dear M,

         True Capsicum is not soluble in water, but following the herbal 

formulation of Dr. Christopher and Szechuan may be all that is needed. I 

doubt if a perfect cayenne solution is vital in the use of Cayenne as an 

eye wash. Certainly their eye wash formulations seems to be of value to 

their patients as prescribed. It is worth a try, if carefully utilized.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

From: Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:56:32 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jeanette Johnson <rej@cpinternet.com> :



Slightly OT, but does anyone know where I can find this book?  Is it older, or

would Amazon or Barnes and Noble possibly carry it?



TIA,

Jeanette



polo@ccp.com wrote:



> Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :

>

> Dear Mary,

>          Funny your timing. I am on another list in which cataracts are

> being discussed now. One member posted part of the following:

>

> "...an excerpt from the book "Curing With Cayenne" by Sam Biser:



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Equine cataracts

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:48:11 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



in one of the books I have on Hildegard of Bingen  the sap from grape 

vines put into eyes.

also I think that essential fatty acids as a food supplement would 

improve the fluid viscosity in the eye - maybe flax seed meal. I will 

ask a friend of mine who has been a horse trainer since childhood.

sharon in tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:  Equine cataracts

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:51:46 -0400 (EDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by tmueller@bluegrass.net :



Excerpt from Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



>  "...an excerpt from the book "Curing With Cayenne" by Sam Biser:

   ....Dr. SCHULZE: We have the eyebright formula I inherited from my teacher

   Dr. John Christopher--but I've improved it a lot by adding much more

   cayenne than was ever in it.

   EYEBRIGHT FORMULA:

(snip)



Is there no danger of damage to the eyes from such a strong dose of cayenne?

I am thinking in terms of human eyes in this context.  Can horses' eyes tolerate

more harsh stuff than human eyes?  Even the slightest hint of cayenne can be

very painful to human eyes, and Habanero peppers can be very painful to the

digestive tract beginning with the mouth.



What is done after applying the eyebright-cayenne formula to the eyes (human or

horse)?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:  Equine cataracts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:55:38 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



>         In response to: "Is there no danger of damage to the eyes from 

> such a strong dose of cayenne? I am thinking in terms of human eyes in 

> this context.  Can horses' eyes tolerate

>more harsh stuff than human eyes?  Even the slightest hint of cayenne can be

>very painful to human eyes, and Habanero peppers can be very painful to the

>digestive tract beginning with the mouth. What is done after applying the 

>eyebright-cayenne formula to the eyes (human orhorse)?"



Dear list member,

         The concentration of the cayenne can be very minute to very 

concentrated. I assure you some homeopathic dilutions of cayenne would give 

absolutely no discomfort response of any kind. So you have a wide gamut of 

concentrations to play with. I have faith in the experience of Dr. 

Christopher and his protege in their practices.  If you are worried, start 

at very diluted cayenne concentrations. I always try things on myself 

before practicing on anyone else or any animal. Do the same.

         Again let me state that I have no personal experience in using the 

Christopher/Schultze

eye wash formula. It does sound of value and worth a try. I have used other 

eye washes on horses with little trouble.  According to Christopher's & 

Schultze's agenda, it seems one doesn't need to do anything after the multi 

daily applications.

         Again, I hope I don't have horse people going out there in the 

real world to randomly mix up cayenne and "squirt" their haphazard 

infusions into their horse's eyes. Make sure concentrations are accurate 

and low to start off with, and I would always advise trying it on oneself 

before giving it to the animal in the initial stages. After that one can go 

from there.  You would not want obvious pain in your horse's eye which can 

easily be detected by any horseman, i.e. eye rubbing, etc.

         I have long been a believer in counter-irritation and have helped 

many horses with this medical mechanism. The powers of cayenne deserve to 

be appreciated, studied, and utilized.



>



Doug  A.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Equine cataracts

From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:35:51 -0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by kchishol@fox.nstn.ca :



Dear List



Are cataracts reversible with medication? If so, why do people go for cornea

transplants?



Thanks.



Kevin Chisholm



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Equine cataracts

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:30:13 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Miikkali Leppihalme <leppihalme@quartal.com> :



Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :

> 

> True Capsicum is not soluble in water, but following 

> the herbal formulation of Dr. Christopher and Szechuan

> may be all that is needed. I doubt if a perfect cayenne

> solution is vital in the use of Cayenne as an eye wash.

> Certainly their eye wash formulations seems to be 

> of value to their patients as prescribed. It is worth

> a try, if carefully utilized.



I'm sure it is worth a try and I guess you misread my post or the one I was

responding to. The subject had already drifted from Dr Christopher's formula

to trying to get pain caused by cayenne go away from a human eye. I believe

Michelle was right in saying that rinsing the eye with oil would be best in

such a situation.



-

M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re2 questions

From: "rochelle" <rochelle@ntlworld.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:16:38 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by rochelle <rochelle@ntlworld.com> :



From Rochelle <rochelle@ntlworld.com> :

<<>1. Is it the Marshmallow leaves or roots I need for a mouth infection? I

buy

>my herbs as tinctures and make up gargles.



From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>



<<I think marshmallow leaves or roots are soothing but not antibiotic or

antiseptic.>>



Thanks Thomas, I was beginning to despair of the list thinking my question

was maybe too basic but do I take it from your reply that it wouldn't matter

which I put into a gargle together with Calendula, Hypericum, Echinacea and

maybe Sage for a sore throat?



Regards, Rochelle



Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release Date: 07/08/01



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Re2 questions

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:01:41 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



rochelle wrote:



> <<>1. Is it the Marshmallow leaves or roots I need for a mouth infection?

>

> From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

>

> <<I think marshmallow leaves or roots are soothing but not antibiotic or

> antiseptic.>>

>

> Thanks Thomas, I was beginning to despair of the list thinking my question

> was maybe too basic but do I take it from your reply that it wouldn't matter

> which I put into a gargle together with Calendula, Hypericum, Echinacea and

> maybe Sage for a sore throat?



It depends on what you're using it for.  For gum infections, nothing beats

myrrh.  For a sore throat, sage tea is excellent, but you may need

internal/topical herbs for a throat infection.  I'm not sure why you're using

calendula and hypericum in your gargle; I would think that if you have an actual

throat infection you would need to treat with antimicrobials such as echinacea,

usnea (especially if strep is present), possibly goldenseal topically.  I defer

to the experienced herbalists to give you more specific answers.



May

--

Death is our body's way of telling us to slow down.   ---Ryan Drum



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Re2 questions

From: "michelle" <mlaksmi@xprs.net>

Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:33:07 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by michelle <mlaksmi@xprs.net> :



Hello



Im coming in late on this one -but,

For most throat issues including strep I have not seen anything work better

than a combination of propolis and myrhh-

Fast results and instant relief.



Echinacea works for some people but not all, in my experience.



Michelle



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Cayenne (was: RE: Equine cataracts)

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:48:43 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Miikkali Leppihalme <leppihalme@quartal.com> :



May

> I was also told once, that, contrary to popular belief, 

> cayenne would soothe my stomach. Don't believe that one either.



Christopher Hobbs wrote in 1996 something about cayenne. This is cut&pasted

without permission from anyone so hit me, Hetta, if this is a no-no.



"There has been some discussion about whether cayenne, if it is used

excessively, can irritate or even cause ulceration of the intestinal tract.

In reviewing the modern scientific literature, studies agree that cayenne

not only does not harm the intestinal mucosa (the protective covering), but

on the contrary, can speed healing--though some people seem to be more

sensitive to the irritating effect than others. In one study, daily

consumption of meals containing 3 grams of chili powder did not worsen

patients with duodenal ulcers who were also taking antacids. A recent study,

using a video camera threaded into the digestive tract, found no visible

damage to the mucosa of the stomach or upper small intestine of 12 healthy

volunteers who consumed 30 grams of jalapeno peppers. When the subjects were

given a meal containing 2 grams of aspirin, multiple gastric ulcers were

seen in 11 out of the 12. 



In animal studies, cayenne has actually shown a protective effect on the

gastric mucosa, prompting some researchers to call for further human

studies."



-

M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Cayenne (was: RE: Equine cataracts)

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:07:57 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



"Leppihalme, Miikkali" wrote:



> In animal studies, cayenne has actually shown a protective effect on the

> gastric mucosa, prompting some researchers to call for further human

> studies."



Very possibly true.  It did, however, hurt.



May

--

Death is our body's way of telling us to slow down.   ---Ryan Drum



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Biser's Book

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:18:32 GMT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Dear Jeanette,

    I had the same trouble when looking for this book in the major websites. 

You need to plug the name, "Curing With Cayenne" & Sam Biser into some 

search engines and you should get some leads. The ones I found are mostly 

health food stores and they are asking around $36 for a 136 page 

book--rather expensive in my book. 



doug 





==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: equine cataracts

From: "globird" <globird@tenmegs.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 06:54:53 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by gloria scholbe <globird@tenmegs.com> :



Several people have had success using eucalyptus honey for cataracts in

dogs and cats. Dr. Pitcairn recommends it in his book "Natural Health

for Dogs and Cats". I don't see why it wouldn't work for horses, too.



If  you type the words cataracts, eucalyptus, and honey into your search

engine, you will find several references to it. The medicinal properties

of eucalyptus must be carried in the nectar and remain in the honey. I

understand that it takes several weeks of application. One drop of the

honey is placed in the lower eyelid daily. It also has the benefit of

not hurting, as cayenne will.



gloria



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Pony story (and cataracts)

From: "Eleanor K. Sommer" <eksommer@gator.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:49:55 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Eleanor K. Sommer <eksommer@gator.net> :



Herbal lore aside (and of course OT), I must say, Art, your story about the

pony is beautiful. Brought tears to my eyes. However, the point is not

lost. We can get as addicted to using herbs as we can to using

pharmaceuticals, and sometimes the situation calls for no acton at all.

Something even herbalist should remember.



P.S. As a writer and professional editor, I urge you to submit this story

somewhere, perhaps to the  who publishers of the Chicken Soup books, Health

Communcations in Deerfield Beach FL.  -Ellie



>Subject: Re: Equine cataracts

>From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

>Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:45:17 -0600

>X-Message-Number: 16



>My folks inherited a pony with the purchase of their land -- he'd lived

>there since birth, and previous attempts to sell him or give him away

>had failed. . . .

>----   Art Sackett   ----



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: How to make Arnica gel

From: Carol Mora <carollm@rockbridge.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:54:01 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Carol Mora <carollm@rockbridge.net> :



Have been thinking about how useful arnica gel is and

wondering if it's possible to make it myself.  Anyone know?



Thanks,



Carol



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: How to make Arnica gel

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:49:11 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Carol Mora <carollm@rockbridge.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



> Have been thinking about how useful arnica gel is and

> wondering if it's possible to make it myself.  Anyone know?



Use Hypericum oil instead. Pretty much the same effect, without the toxicity.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

  The HerbFAQs are   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-cont.html

     in new spots:   |  http://ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/culi-cont.html

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: How to make Arnica gel

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:59:21 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by Carol Mora <carollm@rockbridge.net> :

>

> Have been thinking about how useful arnica gel is and

> wondering if it's possible to make it myself.  Anyone know?

>



Infuse the arnica flowers in an oil (olive, almond, etc) for a couple weeks,

then strain the oil. Heat it slowly over a low flame and add just enough

beeswax to get it to the gel-like consistency you want.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: How to make Arnica gel

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:29:24 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Carol Mora wrote:



> Have been thinking about how useful arnica gel is and

> wondering if it's possible to make it myself.  Anyone know?



Don't know about gel, but I make arnica salve myself (infuse arnica flowers in

oil, add about 1/4 as much beeswax).  Sometimes I mix arnica oil and St. John's

Wort oil half and half.



May

--

Death is our body's way of telling us to slow down.   ---Ryan Drum



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: How to make Arnica gel

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:06:27 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:54:01 -0400 Carol Mora <carollm@rockbridge.net>

writes:

> Sent to the herblist by Carol Mora <carollm@rockbridge.net> :

> 

> Have been thinking about how useful arnica gel is and

> wondering if it's possible to make it myself.  Anyone know? Thanks,

Carol



If Arnica Oil or tincture can be mixed with aloevera gel, and perhaps

thickened with powdered gel, and/or powdered whole herb aloe vera dumped

out of capsules, it might be useful.    If you want something more like

the commercial, those hand antiseptics in gel form in pump bottles, is

probably very similar to the base...

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re 2 questions

From: "rochelle" <rochelle@ntlworld.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:47:18 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by rochelle <rochelle@ntlworld.com> :



Thanks to May and Michelle for their replies to my question but I have to

say this was a mouth NOT a throat infection. The patient, a 4 yr old child,

that I have been treating homoeopathically presented with a mouth full of

what looked like herpes type blisters. They were painful and she hadn't

eaten for 2 days. She was drinking water through a straw. Her tongue was

thick white and yellow with ulcerations down the side. The cause may have

been antibiotics given for swollen glands as Mum never thought to get in

touch with me for an acute problem as her presenting complaint is asthma and

she is /was on high dose steroids for prevention. The steroids have been cut

by half and asthma is improving.



 In the mouthwash I made up the Calendula and Echinacea were for healing and

the Hypericum helps with the pain. I added Marshmallow for its soothing

properties. I also gave a homeopathic remedy.



2 days later Mum phoned to say that the mouth was clearing up beautifully

and the child was starting to eat again. I not prepared to decide whether it

was the herbal mouthwash I made up or the homeopathic remedy I gave as it

doesn;t really matter!!



Thank  you Michelle for reminding me about Myrrh



Which leaves my original question - Marshmallow, is it the leaves or root

that does the soothing for throat and mouth infections??



------------------------------

rochelle wrote:



> <<>1. Is it the Marshmallow leaves or roots I need for a mouth infection?

>

> From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

>

> <<I think marshmallow leaves or roots are soothing but not antibiotic or

> antiseptic.>>

>

> Thanks Thomas, I was beginning to despair of the list thinking my question

> was maybe too basic but do I take it from your reply that it wouldn't

matter

> which I put into a gargle together with Calendula, Hypericum, Echinacea

and

> maybe Sage for a sore throat?



It depends on what you're using it for.  For gum infections, nothing beats

myrrh.  For a sore throat, sage tea is excellent, but you may need

internal/topical herbs for a throat infection.  I'm not sure why you're

using

calendula and hypericum in your gargle; I would think that if you have an

actual

throat infection you would need to treat with antimicrobials such as

echinacea,

usnea (especially if strep is present), possibly goldenseal topically.  I

defer

to the experienced herbalists to give you more specific answers.



May



www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release Date: 08/08/01



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Re 2 questions

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:15:56 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



hello may



re: the leaves or the root of marshmallow?



well, if you require a direct action, such as coating the sore with a

protective layer of mucilage, you would use the root.

if you require a reflex action, say in a bad cough or cystitis, you would

use the leaves. the leaves are also used externally for a poultice on burns,

eczema...



the leaves contain around 6-9% mucilage and the root as much as 37% mucilage



i hope this helps!



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re 2 questions

From: "rochelle" <rochelle@ntlworld.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:05:40 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by rochelle <rochelle@ntlworld.com> :



Dear Lizzie,



Thanks for your reply re- marshmallow. I am now happy to order the roots as

what I want is the mucilaginous quality  whether it is for a mouth , throat

or stomach problem.I shall also order myrrh which I don;t have and some more

hyssop which I have used with success for catarrh mixed with Sambucca.



Regards,

Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Baptisia

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:30:58 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



I seem to have found the mother lode of wild indigo (Baptisia tinctoria)

in a wooded area behind a friend's organic farm.  My plan is to tincture

some root.  Any advice?  Also, what have people found Baptisia most

useful for?



Thanks,

May

--

Death is our body's way of telling us to slow down.   ---Ryan Drum



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Baptisia

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:55:21 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:30:58 -0400 May Terry <mterry@snet.net> writes:

> Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :

> 

> I seem to have found the mother lode of wild indigo (Baptisia 

> tinctoria) > in a wooded area behind a friend's organic farm.  My plan

is to  tincture some root.  Any advice?  Also, what have people found

Baptisia most  useful for?> Thanks,  May

 

 Dear May,

Perhaps you would like to leave the roots and make some nice blue dye,

its main use.

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Baptisia

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:42:09 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Marcia V Grossbard wrote:



> > Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :

> >

> > I seem to have found the mother lode of wild indigo (Baptisia

> > tinctoria) > in a wooded area behind a friend's organic farm.  My plan

> is to  tincture some root.  Any advice?  Also, what have people found

> Baptisia most  useful for?> Thanks,  May

>

>  Dear May,

> Perhaps you would like to leave the roots and make some nice blue dye,

> its main use.



Really?  My understanding is that it's antimicrobial, and is used for sore

throats and upper respiratory infections.



May



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: pinched nerve

From: "Susan Perry" <sperry@mail.dal.devry.edu>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:28:33 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Susan Perry <sperry@mail.dal.devry.edu> :



I have been suffering from a pinched nerve in my right arm for some time (approx 8 weeks). I am seeing a chiropractor and have some improvement, but it is still painful and debilitating. Is gthere a beneficial salve or ointment I can use?



Susan Perry, Ph.D.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Stomach problems (was Re: Re 2 questions)

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:36:45 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



LJS Doody wrote:



> hello may

>

> re: the leaves or the root of marshmallow?

>

> well, if you require a direct action, such as coating the sore with a

> protective layer of mucilage, you would use the root.

> if you require a reflex action, say in a bad cough or cystitis, you would

> use the leaves. the leaves are also used externally for a poultice on burns,

> eczema...

>

> the leaves contain around 6-9% mucilage and the root as much as 37% mucilage

>

> i hope this helps!



It does, though I wasn't the person who asked the question %>)  Here's one,

though: according to United Plant Savers, slippery elm is slipping away from us

here in the U.S.  Do people find marshmallow root as good to use for stomach

soothing?



May

--

Death is our body's way of telling us to slow down.   ---Ryan Drum



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Stomach problems (was Re: Re 2 questions)

From: Marcia V Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:01:47 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard <ngbard@juno.com> :



According to United Plant Savers, slippery elm is slipping  away from us

here in the U.S.  Do people find marshmallow root as good to use for 

stomach soothing?  May

 

Probably.  Now if you could get the commercial interests to grow and

process Marshmallow root into capsules and make it "convenient" for us

lazy folk, it would be better than wildcrafting the last of our slippery

elm.  Education is needed.

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Stomach problems (was Re: Re 2 questions)

From: "Scott and Aliceann Carlton" <carlton@midrivers.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:38:36 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Aliceann and Scott Carlton <carlton@midrivers.com> :



Much of the healing is in the asana of gathering, preparing, and formulating

the herbs and foods....there aren't real shortcuts about this......even

though it would seem a good thing to put it in a pill and swallow and presto

chango........



I use marshmallow root a lot for demulcent qualities.  Another very good

herb is bamboo manna which is excellent for lung restoration as well.  I

don't live where I can gather either, but I do purchase in bulk and prepare

the formulations I need according to the problems and underlying

constitution.



I've always disliked slippery elm........don't know why, maybe taste or

quality of texture, but marshmallow root is pretty good stuff......so is

gokshura or caltrops (puncture vine, tribulus terrestris) particularly for

kidney and urinary tissues and problems.



Best regards,

Aliceann



Sent to the herblist by marcia v grossbard



Probably.  Now if you could get the commercial interests to grow and

process Marshmallow root into capsules and make it "convenient" for us

lazy folk, it would be better than wildcrafting the last of our slippery

elm.  Education is needed.

Marcia



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: thyme

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:34:55 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



I have several types of thyme plants.  Does anyone know if I can use all 

kinds for tincturing?  I've got a lot of silver thyme that I'd like to use.  

I take it that thyme is thyme no matter the color of the leaves???

much thanks ~ phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: thyme

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:30:49 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



> I have several types of thyme plants.  Does anyone know if I can use all 

> kinds for tincturing?  I've got a lot of silver thyme that I'd like to use.  

> I take it that thyme is thyme no matter the color of the leaves???



Tastewise, the best one is Thymus vulgaris. The rest are all just pale copies.

If you want thyme substitutes that are easy and fast to pick, look to the

Monardas.

And neither thymes nor Monardas are tincture plants, in my eyes. They're very

good as teas or syrups.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: thyme

From: Elizabeth Scotten <bek@timelessremedies.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 06:53:12 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



I agree with Henriette about the teas and syrups. My favorite as far as

flavor goes, especially during cold and flu season is Thymus vulgaris

'citriadora' (lemon thyme). It makes a really nice tea and loosens chest

congestion quite well. As far as i'm concerned, part of the experience with

thyme is breathing in the  steam as you drink the tea.



:) bek



-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Goldthread/coptis - contraceptive?

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:13:24 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



Kind of a silly question - I just finished rereading Jean Auel's "Earth

Children" series of books (Clan of the Cave Bear, et al)(nci), which took on

an interesting new meaning to me this time, since it's the first time I've

read them since becoming interested in herbalism.



Anyway, in every volume of the series, they mention that Ayla uses "golden

thread" as a contraceptive. I'm assuming it's the same as coptis, but I

haven't been able to come across it being used in this manner. Does anyone

have any information about this, or if it was a different herb she was

referring to?



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Goldthread/coptis - contraceptive?

From: "louherbs" <louherbs@paulbunyan.net>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:12:29 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Lou Hendrickson <louherbs@paulbunyan.net> :



There are some Jean Auel websites.  On one of them there is a list of herbs

mentioned in the books.  This may help clarify the use of "golden thread."



Lou Hendrickson



Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



Jean Auel's "Earth Children" series of books (Clan of the Cave

every volume of the series, they mention that Ayla uses "golden

thread" as a contraceptive. I'm assuming it's the same as coptis, Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Echinacea

From: "Robin Dorey" <rdorey@mtdata.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:51:11 -0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by robin dorey <rdorey@mtdata.com> :



   Hi everyone,



I have a bumper crop of purple coneflower/Echinacea purpurea.  My garden

glows with purple:)  Anyway, this fall I want to pull a lot of it up as it

is after all a flower garden and I want more room for more flowers.  Do I

use the whole plant for the tincture??  I seem to remember that 3-4 year

plants were the best but I have not a clue how old some of these are.  They

have freely reseeded themselves around the garden for several years.  Does

the age factor make a difference??  Thanks for your help.  Robin Dorey



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: baptisia tinctoria (wild indigo, indigoweed)

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:12:43 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elfreem@aol.com :



>  I seem to have found the mother lode of wild indigo (Baptisia tinctoria)

>  in a wooded area behind a friend's organic farm.  My plan is to tincture

>  some root.  Any advice?  Also, what have people found Baptisia most

>  useful for?



Wild indigo was one of the eclectic favorites for treatment of infected,

poorly healing wounds. King recommended it in 1846 as an antiseptic.

It has a host of other uses. The plant was official in the US Dispensatory 

from 1831-42 and in the National Formulary from 1916-36. 



One of its alkaloids is similar to nicotine and at high doses it acts as 

an emetic and cathartic.



Elliot Freeman



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Antibiotics, Analgesics, and Acute Otitis Media

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:40:43 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elfreem@aol.com :



Greetings Listers:



I am preparing the following information on various treatment for 

acute otitis media (ear ache) in children for the newsletter service 

I manage to hospitals around the country. In the U.S., antibiotics 

have been commonly prescribed despite the fact that these agents 

are not much more effective than placebo. For a variety of reasons, 

however, its been very difficult to get prescribers to stop using 

antibiotics in this setting, perhaps because when someone sees 

a physician they expect to get a prescription. Parenteral expectation 

may be a big factor. At any rate, since the last portion of the article 

is on an herbal remedy I thought the list might be interested in the 

information. Its in rough form and will be finalized in a few days. I may 

add the name of other products here in the U.S., such as the one by

Eclectic Institute, since the product Otikon is not available here.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh



ANTIBIOTICS, ANALGESICS, AND ACUTE OTITIS MEDIA 



     Evidence indicates that antibiotics have only modest benefits in 

treating children with acute otis media (AOM). In a meta-analysis, 

Del Mar found that 60% of placebo- treated children were pain free 

within 24 hours of presentation and 2-7 days after presentation only 

14% of children in control groups still had pain. Antibiotics did not 

increase the number of pain free children at 24 hours, but at 2-7 days, 

antibiotics reduced pain in the remaining children by 41%. It was 

determined that prevention of one child from experiencing pain 2-7 days 

after presentation required treating 17 children with early antibiotic 

therapy which was associated with a near doubling of vomiting, diarrhea, 

or rashes.1 In another review of the medical literature from 1966 through 

1999, Takata et al found that amoxicillin and ampicillin provided "modest 

benefit" in relieving symptoms in children with AOM. Overall, signs and 

symptoms resolved within 4 to 7 days in 78% of children not initially 

treated with antibiotics. Based on 6 studies comparing ampicillin or 

amoxicillin with placebo, it was estimated that about 8 children with 

AOM would need to be treated with antibiotics to avoid a clinical failure 

at days 2-7. The efficacy of various antibiotics were similar; 

however, the incidence of adverse gastrointestinal effects varied.2 



     More recently, in the largest controlled trial to date in 315 children 

with AOM, Little evaluated the effects of prescribing immediate antibiotic 

therapy with amoxicillin (or erythromycin as an alternate) or prescribing 

antibiotic therapy if needed after waiting for 72 hours. Antibiotics had 

marginal benefits primarily after 24 hours when distress and symptoms 

were beginning to be resolved anyway. Immediate antibiotic therapy 

provided one day's benefit in symptom duration, days of crying, and 

night distrubance. The wait and see approach resulted in a 76% 

decrease in antibiotic prescriptions. It was concluded that a wait and 

see approach is feasible, acceptable to parents, and should substantially 

reduce use of antibiotics. In addition, any benefit gained by prescribing 

immediate antibiotics must be weighed against potential side effects 

and the parents' belief of the importance of antibiotics, according to the 

investigators.3 Physicians may feel pressured by parents to prescribe 

antibiotics even when they consider that an antibiotic is not indicated.4 



     Wondering if an alternative to an immediate antibiotic would be 

appropriate remedy rather than a wait and see approach, Matz et al 

compared a topical anesthetic containing benzocaine (Auralgan), with 

antibiotics (usually amoxicillin) in 88 children with AOM. All children 

were assessed after 3-7 days and given an alternative treatment in the 

event of failure. Both study treatments brought pain relief, although there 

was a trend toward lower pain scores in the antibitic group. There were 

4 treatment failures in the Auralgan group and 2 in the antibiotic group, 

which may not be clinically significant; however, 89% of the children 

given Auralgan responded clinically and were spared unnecessary 

antibiotics. Parents appeared equally satisfied with both treatments 

and few complications were encountered in either group. Prescribing 

an otic anesthetic, with watchful waiting for a short period of time, 

according to the authors, has the potential to reduce millions of 

antibiotic prescriptions.5 



     In an Israeli study, Sarrell compared an herbal and anesthetic otic 

formulation involving 103 children 6-18 years of age with otalgia associated 

with AOM. The herbal remedy contained Allium sativum (garlic), 

Verbascum thapsus (mullein), Calendula flores (Marigold), and 

Hypericum perforatum (St Johns Wort) in oil and the anesthetic 

contained ametocaine and phenazone in glycerin, which is generally 

similar to Auralgan. The two treatment groups were comparable to 

each other in initial pain scores and all children with AOM were 

effectively treated, with no observed complications due to avoidance 

of antibiotic therapy.6 



     Conclusion: Immediate antibiotic therapy has modest benefits in 

children with AOM, but may lead to adverse effects and/or the development 

of resistant strains of bacteria. Anesethetic ear drops and/or herbal ear 

drops appear to be an effective alternative to immediate antibiotic 

therapy for AOM in children. 



1. Del Mar CB. BMJ 1997;314:1526-29

2. Takata. Pediatrics 2001;108:239-247

3. Little P. BMJ 2001;322:336-42 

4. MacFarlane J. BMJ 1997;315:1211-4                               

5. Matz PS. Pediatric Academic Societies Annual Meeting, Baltimore 

6. Sarrell EM. Arch Ped Adolsc Med 2001;155:796-99                 



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Antibiotics, Analgesics, and Acute Otitis Media

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:02:43 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Very interesting post, Dr. Freeman.



thanks for sharing,



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Antibiotics, Analgesics, and Acute Otitis Media

From: "Steve and Christine Wilson" <scwilson@bigpond.net.au>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:45:29 +1000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Christine <scwilson@bigpond.net.au> :



Hi Elliot ,



Thanks for posting this great info I would be interested in the a copy of

the final report .



I use cotton wool with tea tree droped on to the wool then inserted into

ear, this  has proved very successful . I have used it on an adult very

recently where he was experiencing ear pain due to dental problems. He found

it very effective for the pain management.



Regards Chris



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE:Antibiotics, Analgesics, and Acute Otitis Media

From: dpotocki <dpotocki@erols.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:10:44 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by dpotocki@erols.com :



Greetings everyone!



Elliot Freeman wrote:



> I am preparing the following information on various treatment for

> acute otitis media (ear ache) in children for the newsletter service

> I manage to hospitals around the country. (snip)

>



Elliot, I am curious to know the causes of the AOM which you discuss in

your paper. BTW, I do not have a medical background (other than being a

mom [smile]), but id the doctors involved in the studies do any kind of

culture or other investigation to determine the presence of a specific

bacterium? If we are talking symptoms here, shouldn't we be looking for

the cause first?  Even in herbal treatments, the holistic approach would

be to discover what is going on in the body before treating a condition.

Am I too much a purist or were the AOM scenarios which your sources were

treating already identified? Your posts are always very interesting and

your attempts to educate the medical establishment are appreciated by

those of us who wish to see more cooperation between the various

approaches to health care. Perhaps you could elaborate on the background

specifics of AOM a bit more. Herbal treatment of ear problems does seem

to be of great value...attested to by my own grandchildren. Still, I

have always been concerned that we discover the source of a problem,

something perhaps more difficult when dealing with tiny tots. If their

systems are somehow compromised by a deficiency in some area, that

should be addressed.



Keep up your good work.



Donna



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: NE Herb Supply?

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:35:45 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Regarding the below, I sent an email Aug. 8 to Peter Byram at the

address Henriette provided, and have not received a reply.  Does anyone

know if this contact info is still current?



Thanks,

May



> Quality kava tincture: get fresh root from Hawaii (or other tropical

places

> where they cultivate it organically), tincture 1:2 in 95 % alcohol.

>

> If that's impractical, and you're in the US, you might want to try

(listmember)

> Peter Byram's - it's quite good [1], but I think he only has it once

or twice a

> year. Peter?

>

>   Wait, I have the contact info here somewhere:

>   Peter Byram, New England Herbal Supply Co., 860-228-9199,

nehrbsup@aol.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: NE Herb Supply?

From: "Joanie MacPhee" <macphee@net1plus.com>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:36:10 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by macphee@net1plus.com :



I don't know, May.

Perhaps Mary does.

I sent him an email back in the spring after he announced his last Kava

order and never heard back from him then, either.  I suspect he is just out

and about.  Or AOL ate it. He is in Hebron Connecticut, though, as I

remember...perhaps you can look him up in the book, and/or take a ride over.

Joanie



>Regarding the below, I sent an email Aug. 8 to Peter Byram at the

>address Henriette provided, and have not received a reply.  Does anyone

>know if this contact info is still current?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: NE Herb Supply?

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme@quartal.com>

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:28:55 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Miikkali Leppihalme <leppihalme@quartal.com> :



> I sent an email Aug. 8 to Peter Byram at the

> address Henriette provided, and have not received

> a reply. Does anyone know if this contact info

> is still current?



He has also an alternative email address (see below). I've talked with Peter

only through the address that you have, although that's quite a while ago.

Here's the snailmail address and other contact info to NE Herbal Supply. You

might try to call him.



299 Jagger Lane

Hebron, Connecticut 06248 USA

Phone: 1-800-742-0631 or 1-860-228-9705

FAX: 1-860-228-9705

another email-address: NEHerbalSupply@Sprintmail.com 



-

M



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: NE Herb Supply?

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:37:28 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbgrow30@aol.com :



In a message dated 8/21/01 11:36:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mterry@snet.net 

writes:



<< Regarding the below, I sent an email Aug. 8 to Peter Byram at the

 address Henriette provided, and have not received a reply.  Does anyone

 know if this contact info is still current?

 

 Thanks,

 May >>



Hi May -



Yes his email is still correct....he's just had a busy summer taking his CNC 

certification and he'll get to you asap.



Warmly -

Mary



Mary L. Conley, MNH, ND

Conley Farm Learning Center & Apothecary

Private consultations; Classes now forming for September

Online classes schedule through Herbgrow30@aol.com; 

Mystical Forest Children's Herbs



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Salve help/thank you

From: "Renee" <rja86@webtv.net>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:59:19 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Renee <rja86@webtv.net> :



I finally made my first herbal salve recently, and it turned out

perfectly.  I want to thank everyone for all the good advice you've given

me these last months.  I think I used a portion of everyone's advice in

making this.



Take good care,

Renee



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Salve help/thank you

From: Melesana@aol.com

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:14:22 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Meg <melesana@aol.com> :



In a message dated 8/21/01 1:44:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rja86@webtv.net 

writes:



> 

>  I finally made my first herbal salve recently, and it turned out

>  perfectly. 



Please let us know how you did it then, Renee.  



Meg



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Salve help/thank you

From: "Renee" <rja86@webtv.net>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:39:21 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Renee <rja86@webtv.net> :



May,

I sun infused comfrey rt, SJW, calendula, plantain leaf, chickweed herb,

mullein leaf, goldenseal in extra virgin olive oil, first cold pressed, in

the hot shade in yard.

I double infused it for total of 4 weeks. I strained, then gently heated

with 3/4oz beeswax to 8oz infused oil. Added 1 drop benzoin, 2 drops tea

tree, 4 drops lavender per ounce, and 1-800 IU vit. E per oz.

If anyone has suggestions on how I can make it better for future

reference, I am always willing to learn. Thanks



Take care,

Renee



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: dried herbs

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:36:58 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



I know that we like to use up our stored, dried herbs within the year that 

they were collected.  But I have a few plants that I dried last July/August, 

and those same plants did squat in my garden this year.  Do you all think 

that they can still be used over the next six months or so?  They're still in 

a 'whole' state.

much thanks~phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: dried herbs

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:51:21 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by GardenThyme~Lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



I'm in the same boat.  I'm going to use mine as long as they smell good.



Dee

"The GardenThyme Lady"



I know that we like to use up our stored, dried herbs within the year that

they were collected.  But I have a few plants that I dried last July/August,

and those same plants did squat in my garden this year.  Do you all think

that they can still be used over the next six months or so?  They're still

in

a 'whole' state.

much thanks~phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: dried herbs

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:43:00 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



> I know that we like to use up our stored, dried herbs within the year that 

> they were collected.  But I have a few plants that I dried last July/August, 

> and those same plants did squat in my garden this year.  Do you all think 

> that they can still be used over the next six months or so?  They're still in 

> a 'whole' state.



Whole keeps longer than cut'n'sifted.



Properly stored (tightly capped glass jars in a dark cupboard) keeps longer than

paper bag, or tight glass jars in light.



Roots and barks keep for far longer than a year. 

Greens and flowers generally store less well than harder parts.



Some herbs keep for less than a year - Melissa, Lobelia, Hypericum, Capsella

come to mind, but there are others. Dry'em, chop'em up, and freeze them, if you

want them to keep for more than, say, 6 months.



Some herbs keep indefinitely - Arctostaphylos leaf, for instance, simply doesn't

go bad, so if you have that, powder it up for ease of use, keep it wherever,

and/or use it whenever. Other herbs that don't go bad at all are lichens like

Usnea or Cetraria; as long as they're stored dry they're technically still alive

(ie. put them into a damp spot in the woods and they'll go on growing).



Other than that? It's up to you and your organoleptic testing skills. Does it

still taste like it should? Does it smell like it should? Does it have the right

color? Go ahead and use it. Small loss of flavor, smell, or color? Use more of

it.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: harvesting questions

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:24:36 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by GardenThyme~Lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



Hi all, hope you are having a great weekend.

I have valerian and lemon balm I wish to tincture this weekend.  It is my

understanding I am to use the roots for the valerian.  Do I tincture this in

everclear?

  What about the lemon balm, does it need to be tinctured with everclear or

is vodka good enough for it?

I appreciate any and all information!



Dee

"The GardenThyme Lady"



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: harvesting questions

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:23:24 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by GardenThyme~Lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :

>

> Hi all, hope you are having a great weekend.

> I have valerian and lemon balm I wish to tincture this weekend.  It is my

> understanding I am to use the roots for the valerian.  Do I tincture this

in

> everclear?

>   What about the lemon balm, does it need to be tinctured with everclear

or

> is vodka good enough for it?



My understanding is that all fresh herbs should be tinctured in a 190 proof

alcohol, due to the water content in the herbs. So yes, I believe it would

be best to use the Everclear if you're working with fresh herbs.



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: harvesting questions

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:18:08 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"GardenThyme Lady" <dblan@netusa1.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



> I have valerian and lemon balm I wish to tincture this weekend.  It is my

> understanding I am to use the roots for the valerian.  Do I tincture this in

> everclear?



If you want to, and if you have fresh root. You can also tincture the greens, in

95 % EtOH, if they're fresh. Or use 60 % or so, if they're dried. The greens are

milder in action than the root, but still useful.



>   What about the lemon balm, does it need to be tinctured with everclear or

> is vodka good enough for it?



Don't tincture your lemon balm; the tincture doesn't keep. Chop it up and freeze

it instead. And use lemon verbena (Lippia citriodora) or that other plant,

whatever it's called in English, Dracocephalum moldavica, instead of lemon balm

as a tincture. Same taste, same effect, and they keep.



They keep as a dried herb, too, where lemon balm goes stale within 6 months.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: harvesting questions & Joe Pyle Weed

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:48:16 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by GardenThyme~Lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



Thank you   for the information.  I had previously heard to let the valerian

die back before using the root for the tincture.  I didn't use the leaves

;(.  I'm glad to know I can use the leaves  next year though.  I will use

them in a soothing tea.

I made  a tea made with Echinacea flowers this year, after the suggestion of

using the leaves & flowers of that plant.  It not only tastes good, but

gives me a lift.

I planted two lemon verbena this year, but the one I planted in my garden

drowned and the one I left in a pot is only 10" high, not much to it.  I do

have a nice bit of lemon balm ready, so will freeze it for this winter.  I

also freeze my chives and parsley, that is the only way I've found to keep

the flavor.

There is a huge patch of Joe Pyle weed down the road, and I can use it.  Is

it the root of this plant to use?  They are blooming and have a wonderful

pink/purple flower.   I wondered about making it in a previous batch of

boneset extract since  they are both used to cure virus.  The boneset is

very bitter, and I have a "lot" of the tincture, this is why I was

considering using it for the Joe Pyle Weed.

What do you all think?



Dee

"The GardenThyme Lady"



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Tinctures...

From: "Scott and Aliceann Carlton" <carlton@midrivers.com>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:12:00 -0600

--------

Sent to the herblist by Aliceann and Scott Carlton <carlton@midrivers.com> :



There seem to be a great many questions regarding the practice of

tincturing and I'm just wondering... do all of you folks routinely tincture?

Do you also dry/freeze-dry/freeze?



What is it about the tinctures?  I mean, inherently, the idea of a shot of

vodka when I'm feeling a touch low might spur me to 1: 'take my medicine'



and 2: 'feel better' but doesn't the idea of whole herb preservation make

any sense?  Drying seems to work wonderfully for me and as I've already got

thousands of vials of spider specimens sitting around in alcohol, the idea

of confusing my herbs with them doesn't really do much to convince me

otherwise.  Besides, if I really DO need a tincture I can make it up later

from dry materials or use it as an infusion, decoction, or encapsulation.



Just a wonder ...

Scott Carlton



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Tinctures...

From: Melesana@aol.com

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:03:45 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Meg <melesana@aol.com> :



In a message dated 8/25/01 1:15:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 

carlton@midrivers.com writes:



> do all of you folks routinely tincture?

>  Do you also dry/freeze-dry/freeze?



Yes to all of the above, Scott.  I still have a lot of learning to do, and 

for me, tincturing seems overall the most effective.  I do dry the herbs I 

grow, when I'm not going to use them immediately.  When I'm going to use them 

for healing, rather than flavoring or food, I'm probably going to use them 

tinctured anyway, and the medium will probably be alcohol and water, maybe 

with a bit of glycerin.  Knowing that, I might as well go ahead and do it.  

They'll keep longer tinctured, and be easier to store.  I don't tincture 

fresh herbs for the reason Kerry gave - they have more water content, and 

cheap vodka is cheaper than Everclear.



Meg



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Tinctures...

From: "Connie C. Hayes" <chayes@wizard.com>

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:43:21 -0700 (PDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Connie Hayes <chayes@wizard.com> :



I am still learning a lot about herbs, but I do like the dry herb myself.

It is easier to store for me.  The one thing I would like to know is,

what is the shelf life of dry herb?  I store in mason jars, in a box,

in my closet.  Not a cold place, but not hot either.  When do they lose

their potency?

Thanks

Connie



> and 2: 'feel better' but doesn't the idea of whole herb preservation make

> any sense?  Drying seems to work wonderfully for me and as I've already got

> thousands of vials of spider specimens sitting around in alcohol, the idea

> of confusing my herbs with them doesn't really do much to convince me

> otherwise.  Besides, if I really DO need a tincture I can make it up later

> from dry materials or use it as an infusion, decoction, or encapsulation.

> 

> Just a wonder ...

> Scott Carlton



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Tinctures...

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:16:59 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Scott and Aliceann Carlton" <carlton@midrivers.com> wrote to

herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



> There seem to be a great many questions regarding the practice of

> tincturing and I'm just wondering... do all of you folks routinely tincture?

> Do you also dry/freeze-dry/freeze?



Yes. 



I also make oils and salves, usually from dried herb, sometimes from fresh. 



And my pessaries are made from dried and usually powdered herb, with cocoa

butter.



> What is it about the tinctures?  I mean, inherently, the idea of a shot of

> vodka when I'm feeling a touch low might spur me to 1: 'take my medicine'



They're easy to take, and they're easy to take _with_ you. If given the choice

between giving a client a tincture or a tea, I ask first: are you in the habit

of making tea? If so, tea is no problem. If no, tincture is better, because it

usually means that the client takes it. And that is always better than having

the tea sit in the cupboard, unused.



> and 2: 'feel better' but doesn't the idea of whole herb preservation make

> any sense?  



Some herbs give far more bang for the buck as a tincture - you only use 15 drops

at a time, instead of a teaspoon of dried herb at a time.

Other herbs are impossible to use as anything but a tea - the mallows, for

instance, can be used either as teas or as glycerites, and personally glycerites

disgust me. 

The taste of glycerites - yech!. Couple that with the inefficiency of

extraction, and you have my reasons for never ever touching the stuff in a

nutshell.



Some herbs are good as vinegars, too, especially the mineral-rich ones. Try a

nettle vinegar, with perhaps a bit of honey ... yum!



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Tinctures...

From: GerstenbergerA@aol.com

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:10:50 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by GerstenbergerA@aol.com :



In a message dated 8/25/01 4:04:29 PM, Melesana@aol.com writes:



>cheap vodka is cheaper than Everclear.

>

I find Everclear burns too much going down, and isn't available in every 

state. I use white brandy now, it tastes better to me than vodka, and you can 

still see the color of your extraction, not quite as high in alcohol, but 

high enough to do the job. Sometimes I add a drop of maple syrup to really 

bitter ones.

Ann G.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Valerian leaf

From: "Eleanor K. Sommer" <eksommer@gator.net>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:50:04 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Eleanor K. Sommer <eksommer@gator.net> :



Must be the weekend for harvesting valerian. I'll be digging mine tomorrow

morning before the Florida August heat gets too intense.



I am also fascinated to learn of the use of the leaf. How about the flower?

I always notice the distinctive valerian odor when I am working in the

garden if I brush against the leaves or clean around the base of the plants.



Can it be dried and used as tea later, or is it better prepared fresh or

dried as a tincture?



I have the same question about echiniacea. I have tinctured all parts of my

echinacia, but I have never dried the aerial parts to use in tea. Dee, is

the way you use it in tea? Or do you make a tea from fresh flowers and

leaves?



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Valerian leaf

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:05:24 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



"Eleanor K. Sommer" <eksommer@gator.net> wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



> I am also fascinated to learn of the use of the leaf. How about the flower?



Yes.



> I always notice the distinctive valerian odor when I am working in the

> garden if I brush against the leaves or clean around the base of the plants.

> 

> Can it be dried and used as tea later, 



Yes.



> I have the same question about echiniacea. 



Yes.



Oh, okay, I'll be a bit more helpful. Yes, you can use the both fresh and the

dried aboveground parts of both Valeriana and Echinacea, both as a tea and as a

tincture.



Valeriana: The aboveground parts are weaker than the roots. Root or aboveground

parts, fresh, are weaker than root or aboveground parts, dried. So you want

extra super strong valeriana? Use the dried root. You're not sure that the herb

fits you? Use the fresh aboveground parts. Tea, tincture, capsules, whatever.



Echinacea: The strongest part of Ech is the root, after that it's seeds,

complete flowerheads, and greens. I don't dig mine up at all; I _like_ their

gorgeous flowers. So I pick a flower here and another there, and I sift through

the seeds of all the rest, once the stems turned brown.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Valerian leaf

From: "louherbs" <louherbs@paulbunyan.net>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:21:56 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Lou Hendrickson <louherbs@paulbunyan.net> :



> I have the same question about echiniacea.



I harvest the leaves and the flower petals of Echinacea, dry, and grind and

fill capsules as needed during the winter.



Lou Hendrickson louherbs@paulbunyan.net



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Valerian leaf

From: Melesana@aol.com

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:53:00 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Meg <melesana@aol.com> :



In a message dated 8/26/01 1:20:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 

louherbs@paulbunyan.net writes:



> I harvest the leaves and the flower petals of Echinacea, dry, and grind and

>  fill capsules as needed during the winter.

>  



I'm interested in how people grind their dried herbs.  Mortar and pestle?  

Crush by hand?  Coffee grinder?  Blender?



Meg



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Valerian leaf

From: "louherbs" <louherbs@paulbunyan.net>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:24:00 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Lou Hendrickson <louherbs@paulbunyan.net> :



> I harvest the leaves and the flower petals of Echinacea, dry, and grind

and

>  fill capsules as needed during the winter.

>



I'm interested in how people grind their dried herbs.  Mortar and pestle?

Crush by hand?  Coffee grinder?  Blender?



Meg



I usually start with the mortar and pestle, then use the coffee grinder to

get the herb ground finely.  When grinding a large batch at a time, I may

start with the food processor.



Lou Hendrickson louherbs@paulbunyan.net



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Valerian leaf

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:09:30 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by May Terry <mterry@snet.net> :



Melesana@aol.com wrote:



> I'm interested in how people grind their dried herbs.  Mortar and pestle?

> Crush by hand?  Coffee grinder?  Blender?



It depends on the herb, but most of the time I use a coffee grinder (a different

one than I use for coffee).



May

--

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral

crisis, maintain their neutrality.   ---Dante



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: RE: Valerian leaf

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:01:57 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by GardenThyme~Lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



I go out and pick a fresh flower every morning and add it to my pot of tea

(I use black tea, with the addition of usually dandelion and motherwort and

some lemon herb too).  This is summer though, in the winter, I use both

dried leaves and the flowers  of Echinacea in my herb tea at the first

feeling of "illness".  I also use tinctures in the winter, SJW to ward off

the depression, kava kava when I need a lift, Echinacea if I feel run down.

  I usually keep a nice jar of "calming tea" blend for anytime, and then one

for in the morning which has the above herbs in it. (mostly liver and

"women' herbs) as I have problems with gall bladder and PMS.

I'm just learning of valerian.  I have used the capsules from GNC, and the

really help me when I can't sleep.  I'm looking forward to  making a

tincture of my own.

I will miss my herbs this winter, and it seems summer goes by so quickly

with all there is to do.  I am trying to gather and save all I can.   Does

anyone know what part of Joe Pyle Weed is used for illness?  There are a lot

of them now.



Dee

"The GardenThyme Lady"



Sent to the herblist by Eleanor K. Sommer <eksommer@gator.net> :



Must be the weekend for harvesting valerian. I'll be digging mine tomorrow

morning before the Florida August heat gets too intense.



I am also fascinated to learn of the use of the leaf. How about the flower?

I always notice the distinctive valerian odor when I am working in the

garden if I brush against the leaves or clean around the base of the plants.



Can it be dried and used as tea later, or is it better prepared fresh or

dried as a tincture?



I have the same question about echiniacea. I have tinctured all parts of my

echinacia, but I have never dried the aerial parts to use in tea. Dee, is

the way you use it in tea? Or do you make a tea from fresh flowers and

leaves?



-



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Valerian leaf

From: "michelle" <mlaksmi@xprs.net>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:22:20 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by michelle <mlaksmi@xprs.net> :



Hello



Joe Pye weed,Eupatorium purperea or maculatum-"gravel root"-

traditionally used as a tea of leaf and root for stones in the urinary

tract,

also once used for colds and fevers, gout, and rheumatism.



Havent used it myself- but it does grow in New Hampshire where I just moved

to.



Michelle



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: moulds ?

From: JCrobin838@aol.com

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:04:56 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Jackie <JCrobin838@aol.com> :



In a message dated 8/26/01 2:02:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, polo@ccp.com 

writes:



> My problem was finding a good source for cocca butter--expensive 

>  material, it seems.  Anyone out there have a good source for cocca butter?

>  

>  doug

>  

Doug - not knowing where you are or your region I can't help.  If you get me 

a little closer to where you are without revealing your actual address I 

might be able to help.  Remember they use cocoa butter to make candy.



Jackie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: moulds ?

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:20:00 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



hello all



can anyone out there please tell me where in the u.s. i can get re-useable

pessary/suppository moulds?



thanks all



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: moulds ?

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:38:57 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Dear Lizzie,

         I bought my suppository mold off of ebay.  They come up often for 

sale on this online site. The brass ones tend to bring the highest prices. 

The one I purchased was made of steel and probably dated from the 

1950s.  My problem was finding a good source for cocca butter--expensive 

material, it seems.  Anyone out there have a good source for cocca butter?



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: moulds ?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:07:32 +0300

--------

Sent to the herblist by Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi> :



polo@ccp.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:



>          I bought my suppository mold off of ebay.  They come up often for 

> sale on this online site. The brass ones tend to bring the highest prices. 

> The one I purchased was made of steel and probably dated from the 

> 1950s.  My problem was finding a good source for cocca butter--expensive 

> material, it seems.  Anyone out there have a good source for cocca butter?



I buy my cocoa butter from Herbal Apothecary (UK). I could get it at the same

price from a pharmaceutical wholesaler over here, but theirs is in 250 g lots in

drops. I _like_ the half-a-kilogram blocks I get from England.



Oh, the price? FIM 200 per kg + VAT. It's not cheap, but it's well worth it.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi     Helsinki, Finland     http://ibiblio.org/herbmed

Herb FAQs, pictures, classic texts, articles, archives, plant names  ...



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: moulds ?

From: Elizabeth Scotten <bek@timelessremedies.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:23:32 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Elizabeth Scotten <timelesstree@earthlink.net> :



> polo@ccp.com wrote to herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu:

> 

>> I bought my suppository mold off of ebay.  They come up often for

>> sale on this online site. The brass ones tend to bring the highest prices.

>> The one I purchased was made of steel and probably dated from the

>> 1950s.  My problem was finding a good source for cocca butter--expensive

>> material, it seems.  Anyone out there have a good source for cocca butter?



Here in the states, i like to get  cocoa butter from Trinity Herb (nci).

They are really nice to deal with. (www.trinityherb.com to request a

catalogue) They only sell wholesale though.



-bek

-- 

bek@timelessremedies.com

http://www.timelessremedies.com



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Cocoa butter

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:01:06 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by Peter Byram <nehrbsup@aol.com> :



If you are looking for a really good cold pressed Sumatran (tests organic but is not certified) Cocoa butter, talk to me off list - and BTW - this applies to my earlier post about Kava - even though Henriette "opened the door" on the issue of Kava, it doesn't mean that she has suspended the "no commerce" rule for the list.  So .... if you have a question that can be in any way shape or fashion related to commerce or "doiing business" take it OFF LIST and get to me privately.

Thanks,

peter



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: walnuts

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:23:21 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



what is the easiest way to get the green 'flesh' off the walnuts to make

tincture please? i have never done it before.

...well it was just dusk when i walked the dog, so i happened to come home

with some :)

i have never seen these black walnuts before - they smell divine!



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: walnuts

From: "Kerry's Herbals" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:44:30 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Kerry L. <jclarke1@mn.rr.com> :



> Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :

>

> what is the easiest way to get the green 'flesh' off the walnuts to make

> tincture please? i have never done it before.



Having just done this myself on Friday, I can tell you what worked well for

me. I took the claw end of a claw hammer and smashed it into the walnut, and

then gave it a couple good thunks on the concrete floor. The hulls broke

right off.



One note of warning - DO wear gloves!! My fingers, cuticles and nails are a

very lovely shade of DARK brown, with no indication that these stains will

be going away for at least a couple more weeks. Have fun!



Kerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: walnuts

From: polo@ccp.com

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:42:10 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Doug Ahart <polo@ccp.com> :



Dear Lizzie,

         I find using a hammer on the whole black walnut rather messy, and 

it tends to splatter everywhere. Stained my Stetson a few years ago which 

goes to prove plainsmen should not be processing herbs, I guess. A simple 

way for me is to take a sharp knife and peel off the outer green husk as if 

you were peeling a potato. This way you can shave them off in very thin 

"flakes" which should help with the maceration process as well.



doug



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Thanks re Valerian etc

From: "Eleanor K. Sommer" <eksommer@gator.net>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:42:47 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Eleanor K. Sommer <eksommer@gator.net> :



Thanks Henriette and everyone for tips about harvesting valerian and

echiancea. I have a lot of echincacea, and I harvest the roots in rounds,

letting some self-seed and rotating around the patch each year.



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: moulds / cocoa butter

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:37:07 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



just been sent this web site Doug, it looks good to me... perhaps someone

out there will have a personal reccommendation?



will look on ebay - thanks!

though i was thinking of something plastic??



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: moulds?

From: psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:47 +0100 (BST)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Pat S <psilver@cix.compulink.co.uk> :



Hi Doug,



>  My problem was finding a good source for cocca butter--expensive 

> material, it seems.  Anyone out there have a good source for cocca 

> butter?



Try some of the soapmaking suppliers on the Net, cocoa butter is used in 

soapmaking.



PatS in Somerset, England



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Huston, Herbalist

From: "Sarah Head" <sarah@headology.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:27:36 +0100

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sarah J Head <sarah@headology.co.uk> :



Can anyone please recommend a herbalist in the Huston area of Texas who

could deal urgently with a hamstring injury?



Many thanks



Sarah



Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Interstitial Cystitis/Candida

From: Astrid9787@aol.com

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:58:57 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by erica <astrid9787@aol.com> :



Hello everyone,



I'm having my first symptom(s) flair up after a few months of minimal pain. 

After having having sex without appropriate lubrication (I typically use 

almond oil with pleasant results) I now have what I call a pseudo-UTI. I've 

been getting these for years and believe that the constant prescribing of 

antibiotics by doctors wrongly assuming I had an infection caused my present 

Candida affliction. There's no bacteria, but the symptoms are similar. It 

started with urgency and burning immediately FOLLOWING urination. I still 

have the urgency two days later but now instead of burning after urination 

it's during (accompanied now by a shot of pain) and ceases right after. When 

this started my urine was as clear as water and now it's cloudy but not foul 

smelling. There is a chance that the cloudiness if from the herbs I am 

taking.....that is the reason for this post. Do you think the herbs I'm using 

are good choices, and if not, what am I missing?



Decoction of Dandelion leaf

Compounded tincture of Goldenrod (Solidago can.), Cornsilk (Zea mays), 

Horsetail (Equisetum arvense), Pipsissewa (Chimaphilia umbellata), and 

Juniper Berry (Juniperus communis)--40 gtt q.i.d.



Thanks for any help...

Erica



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Interstitial Cystitis/Candida

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:31:25 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>

>Decoction of Dandelion leaf

>Compounded tincture of Goldenrod (Solidago can.), Cornsilk (Zea mays),

>Horsetail (Equisetum arvense), Pipsissewa (Chimaphilia umbellata), and

>Juniper Berry (Juniperus communis)--40 gtt q.i.d.

>

>Thanks for any help...

>Erica

Erica some of these herbs don't go with interstitial cystitis  don't 

use the chimaphilia and the juniper can't comment on the solidago as 

I haven't used it. With Interstitial cystitis you need to soften your 

approach you could think of it as your bladder is raw,  cracked and 

possibly bleeding don't put anything astringent or acidic on it. 

Soothing is what you are going for the corn silk is good, mallow 

could be used by all means drink alot of water 1-1/2 gallons a day, 

diluting urine is very helpful and reduces the pain. I like St 

John'swort for healing the bladder, it tends to knock the pain a bit 

too.

  for the time being avoid citrus, tomatoes, pickles, vinegar,coffee, 

tea, sodas, mustard, cranberry, vitamin c, uva ursi, goldenseal, and 

anything else that you think might be bothering you.

urinate before and after sex rule out  a vaginal infection that is 

causing irritation over 50% of women who self dx yeast infections 

really have another kind of vaginal infection

wear cotton underwear

some women are sensitive to latex and this is the problem

  for some cases I have used an usnea spilanthes combo with St john's 

wort 3x/day

I am probably forgetting something but this is the general idea there 

are some IC websites that are helpful.

Sharon in Tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Interstitial Cystitis/Candida

From: "LJS Doody" <ldoody@internetcds.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:15:33 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by LJS Doody <ldoody@internetcds.com> :



hello Astrid



you have my sympathy, in the past i have suffered from exactly the symptoms

you describe. nothing seemed to clear this up for me until i started to

drink white dead nettle tea [lamium album]. have never needed to use it

since now i think about it!



good healing



Lizzie



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Grinding herbs

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan@netusa1.net>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:20:26 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by GardenThyme~Lady <dblan@netusa1.net> :



I use an electric coffee grinder, after stripping from the stems.  Only when

I'm ready to use the herb, as it releases the oils.

This is only for large leaf  herbs, small ones I strip from the stems, and

use  whole.  I also use my coffee bean grinder when making blends of herbs

for seasonings.



Dee

"The GardenThyme Lady"



I'm interested in how people grind their dried herbs.  Mortar and pestle?

Crush by hand?  Coffee grinder?  Blender?



Meg



I usually start with the mortar and pestle, then use the coffee grinder to

get the herb ground finely.  When grinding a large batch at a time, I may

start with the food processor.



Lou Hendrickson louherbs@paulbunyan.net







==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: interstitial cystitis/candida

From: "globird" <globird@tenmegs.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:09:39 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by gloria scholbe <globird@tenmegs.com> :



Hi Erica,

Cloudy urine usually consists of high numbers of any or all of the

following: bacteria, mucus, whole cells and/or cellular debris from

kidneys and bladder, mucus, yeast, various types of crystals formed from

the diet, trichimonas, and blood. The cause of the cloudiness needs to

be identified in order to determine the correct treatment. A change in

diet could deal with crystals, for example but different approaches

would be required for treating yeast, bacteria, or parasites.



The only thing I can think of that might be caused by the herbs would be

some form of crystals. You should have a urinalysis done to determine

the exact cause. This is a very simple and inexpensive lab test that can

be performed in most clinics. If you have a microscope, you could

probably do it at home, but you would need some way to spin the sample

down first, so the solids would concentrate in the bottom of the

container. Then you would need to know what you are looking at.



Another cause of cloudy urine is dehydration. If you aren't taking in

enough fluid, urine will become concentrated.



My suggestion is to see a physician for diagnosis and then make a

decision about whether herbs should be used to treat the problem.



gloria



> Hello everyone,

>

> I'm having my first symptom(s) flair up after a few months of minimal

pain.

>There is a chance that the cloudiness if from the herbs I am

> taking.....that is the reason for this post. Do you think the herbs

I'm using

> are good choices, and if not, what am I missing?

>

> Decoction of Dandelion leaf

> Compounded tincture of Goldenrod (Solidago can.), Cornsilk (Zea mays),

> Horsetail (Equisetum arvense), Pipsissewa (Chimaphilia umbellata), and

> Juniper Berry (Juniperus communis)--40 gtt q.i.d.

>

> Thanks for any help...

> Erica



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Muscle spasms

From: "Carol Dube" <dubecarol@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:22:19 +0000

--------

Sent to the herblist by Carol Dube <dubecarol@hotmail.com> :



MUSCLE TWITCHING AND HERBAL MEDICINE



I found this information on the site 

http://ighawaii.com/naturally/nv/smmt.html



Shawn Messonnier DVM



Dr. Daryl McDonald referred a pet for acupuncture.  The patient, a shih tzu, 

had been evaluated by the referring veterinarian and Dr. McDonald for the 

unusual signs of muscle twitching.  The lumbar muscles would spasm and 

caused the dog considerable distress.  Despite numerous diagnostic testing, 

no diagnosis was reached.  A trial dose with methocarbamol produced minimal 

relief.  I decided to try a Chinese herbal formula used in people with 

muscle spasms.  Within 2 weeks the dog had improved greatly.  The pet 

continues to do well on this therapy.



I have muscle twitching in the calves of both legs that never stops and I 

would be very interested in finding out what this Chinese herbal formula is. 

  This problem is also called fasciculations.  If you could find out the 

name of this formula or any other other information that could help, it 

would be greatly appreciated.



Yours truly,



Carol Dube



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==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Candida

From: "M. Lazar" <jedihands@alltel.net>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:12:54 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Marianne Lazar <jedihands@alltel.net> :



Erica,

 You should consider a yeast free, sugar free diet to start.  There is a

book

 call the "The Yeast Connection".  I started the diet 10 days ago and

feeling

 great.  I had chronic muscle fatigue and muscle pain, (not good for a

 massage therapist), memory recall problems, headache, skin rashes, periods

 wacko, emotional ups and downs and depression just to name a few.  I never

 had vaginal yeast problems until the day after my chiropractor saw the

yeast

 spots on my palms.  Years ago I had almost constant UTI infections and

 worried I was allergic to my husband.   A lot of symptoms from the past

make

 since now.

 I would not take the Nystantin reccommended by the book.  You can use  Pau

 D'Arco, Acidophilous and garlic to start.  Colonics are reccommended.  All

 the symptoms I was having made me think I was premenopausal (age 48) but

 tests came back right in mid range except that I am on a natural

 progesterone cream that has helped the emotions and fibrocystic breasts.  I

 feel very stable right now, the best I have felt in years.  Find a good

 herbalist who will muscle test for the right product and dosage.

 Hope this helps, good luck,

 Marianne



 Hello everyone,

 >

> > I'm having my first symptom(s) flair up after a few months of minimal

> pain.  > After having having sex without appropriate lubrication (I

typically use

> > almond oil with pleasant results) I now have what I call a pseudo-UTI.

> I've

> > been getting these for years and believe that the constant prescribing

of

> > antibiotics by doctors wrongly assuming I had an infection caused my

> present

> > Candida affliction. There's no bacteria, but the symptoms are similar.

It

> > started with urgency and burning immediately FOLLOWING urination. I

still

> > have the urgency two days later but now instead of burning after

urination

> > it's during (accompanied now by a shot of pain) and ceases right after.

> When

> > this started my urine was as clear as water and now it's cloudy but not

> foul

> > smelling. There is a chance that the cloudiness if from the herbs I am

> > taking.....that is the reason for this post. Do you think the herbs I'm

> using

> > are good choices, and if not, what am I missing?

> >

> > Decoction of Dandelion leaf

> > Compounded tincture of Goldenrod (Solidago can.), Cornsilk (Zea mays),

> > Horsetail (Equisetum arvense), Pipsissewa (Chimaphilia umbellata), and

> > Juniper Berry (Juniperus communis)--40 gtt q.i.d.

> >

> > Thanks for any help...

> > Erica

>

>



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Candida/ interstitial cystitis

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:14:37 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>  Marianne wrote:

>  I would not take the Nystantin reccommended by the book.  You can use  Pau

>  D'Arco, Acidophilous and garlic to start.  Colonics are reccommended.  All

>  the symptoms I was having made me think I was premenopausal (age 48) but

>  tests came back right in mid range except that I am on a natural

>  progesterone cream that has helped the emotions and fibrocystic breasts.  I

>  feel very stable right now, the best I have felt in years.  Find a good

>  herbalist who will muscle test for the right product and dosage.

>  Hope this helps, good luck,

>

>



  Pau D'Arco is too harsh if what you have is interstitial cystitis



for fibrocystic breasts that swell and are painful at times cut out 

all caffeine, chocolate,and hydrogenated oils and you should be 

getting some good clean essential fatty acids in your diet use extra 

virgin olive oil, evening primrose oil or flax seed oil as 

supplements . it is a lymphatic issue and some of the traditional 

remedies can make a difference like phytolacca (Poke root) , verbena, 

ceonothus (red root). If you tend to have dry eyes then  be sure to 

get the essential fatty acids squared away.

Sharon in tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Candida/ interstitial cystitis

From: "michelle" <mlaksmi@xprs.net>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:20:44 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by michelle <mlaksmi@xprs.net> :



Hello



Marshmallow root (althea) sounds very appropriate here, along with the

cornsilk. It sounds like the ut needs soothing.

Beyomd that- the aforementioned dietary guidelines are indicated as well.



Michelle in Vermont



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Candida/ interstitial cystitis

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:34:15 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



In a message dated 8/30/01 3:09:10 PM, mlaksmi@xprs.net writes:



<< Marshmallow root (althea) sounds very appropriate here, along with the



cornsilk. It sounds like the ut needs soothing.



Beyomd that- the aforementioned dietary guidelines are indicated as well.



 >>



my mail has been horrendous lately - lotsa missed/dissed mail.  

I missed the beginnings to this candida/ic topic....what kind of sx was the 

lady having?  

Just wondering, so I can follow this more closely - an older lady friend of 

mine thinks she

may have this - has a bit of 'whitish' drainage from the urethra, no vaginal 

drainage, no odors at all, some external itching, no hematuria or frequency, 

but is a tad bit burning 'down there' she says....is this what you all are 

talking about?

She's been using acidophilus intravaginally and orally, garlic BID,  C  and 

cranberry capsules.  

any suggestions?  It doesn't sound like a frank vag yeast infection; 

something urinary but without all the full-blown sx that we usually associate 

with it.  could it be that she's just been keeping things at bay???

phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Candida/ interstitial cystitis

From: "michelle" <mlaksmi@xprs.net>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:24:46 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by michelle <mlaksmi@xprs.net> :



Hello



What I find is that most women have "cold type" symptoms and the cranberry

and vitamin c just make them colder. They may abate the symptoms for awhile

but they come back. Perhaps something to improve the digestion like

triphala, which has vitamin c but is not a refrigerant. Definitely no sugar

or juice, very little or no flour, and usually more protein are indicated in

"candida" .



sorry phebe- i dont have the earlier posts to fill you in:-)



michelle



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Candida/ interstitial cystitis

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:47:53 -0500

--------

Sent to the herblist by Linda Shipley <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com> :



X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2001 20:47:54.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A9660C0:01C13195]



I was just wondering, is anyone going to the ANMA convention in Las Vegas 

Sept 13-16?

Linda



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==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Interstitial Cystitis

From: Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:59:15 -0400

--------

Sent to the herblist by Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu> :



I agree with what the others have said about soothing your bladder, and

especially want to comment on the Juniper berries: they are much too harsh

and stimulating for IC. I have had a similar problem in the past (chronic

urethritis), and my solution consisted of drinking lots of water; avoiding

all carbonated, sweet, and caffienated beverages (permanently!), and ending

the use of latex condoms. Now I can't even entertain a drink of champagne

(the worst for me) without cringing! And the final piece of the puzzle is

drinking pure water. Depending on your water source, you could be getting

very hard water that forms crystals in and irritates the bladder -- this

was one source of my discomfort as we had our water tested and found out it

was very hard (I also had a kidney stone about the same time). Good luck

with soothing your tired bladder.  -Susan



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Interstitial Cystitis

From: rja86@webtv.net (Renee and Jerry)

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:13:30 -0700 (PDT)

--------

Sent to the herblist by Renee <rja86@webtv.net> :



I have Interstitial Cystitis and was formally diagnosed with it in 1990.

SJW, Quercetin, and marshmallow tea is also recommended.  Diets low in

acidic foods if there is pain.  Very unpleasant disease, no known cause,

and no known cure, although some go into remission for periods of time.

Me, no remission.  I have frequency, urgency as my main symptoms.   I am

up all hours of night to urinate also. ;))



PS Tried Lobelia for spasms, didn't help me, but may help others.



Take care.



Love, Health and Peace,  

Rene and Jerry



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re:possible UTI

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:33:10 -0700

--------

Sent to the herblist by Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@dshome.net> :



>phebe wrote:

>Just wondering, so I can follow this more closely - an older lady friend of

>mine thinks she

>may have this - has a bit of 'whitish' drainage from the urethra, no vaginal

>drainage, no odors at all, some external itching, no hematuria or frequency,

>but is a tad bit burning 'down there' she says....is this what you all are

>talking about?

>She's been using acidophilus intravaginally and orally, garlic BID,  C  and

>cranberry capsules.

any suggestions?



dilution first  get her drinking more, she may be spilling some sugar 

or it could just be irritation from dryness or concentrated urine no 

matter which it is drinking more water will help, clean water is best 

but what ever she can afford or will do. Mallow or corn silk tea can 

be soothing and can help heal from irritation.   the studies done on 

cranberry juice as a preventive were done in nursing homes drinking 

4oz 1x/ day of cranberry juice that is atleast an 80% concentration 

will work to prevent a UTI . When treating a UTI  drink the 4 oz 3-4x 

a day.  With herbs I am use to seeing a change with in 3 days folks 

should really do a 10 day treatment just to be sure. The first thing 

I have someone do when ever the feel the first inklings of something 

coming on is to drink water and sit in a tub.

  Women can use a drinking water bottle filled with a little mallow or 

desert willow or saint john'swort tea like a post partum peri bottle 

this can soothe the irritation on the spot just start squirting 

before you start peeing.

    someone else mentioned progesterone and for older menopausal women 

sometimes a little over-the-counter progesterone cream will help with 

irritation-

shaorn in tucson



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Re: Re:possible UTI

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:57:08 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by herbmednurse@aol.com :



In a message dated 8/31/01 1:38:46 AM, mwherbs@dshome.net writes:



<<  someone else mentioned progesterone and for older menopausal women 

sometimes a little over-the-counter progesterone cream will help with 

irritation-

shaorn in tucson

 >>



thanks Sharon...I've also found that a mild vinegar/water douche with some 

acidophilus works too.

phebe



==========

To: herb@franklin.oit.unc.edu

Subject: Candida/Interstitial Cystitis

From: Astrid9787@aol.com

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:03:18 EDT

--------

Sent to the herblist by erica <astrid9787@aol.com> :



I wanted to thank all of you for responding. First, I have been battling the candida for years, so the anti-candida diet many of you mentioned in your posts is part of my lifestyle. It's extremely hard to not *fall off the wagon* with this diet since there are so many no-nos. I have my ups and downs but mostly I stick to it like glue. 

I truly believe that my insides (gut and bladder) have been so damaged by chronic use of antibiotics (for those pseudo UTIs) and the birth control pill-not to mention being a very unhealthy vegetarian for 3 1/2 years while in college. I am currently studying holistic nutrition at a wonderful school out here in the San Francisco Bay area and am also under the guidance of a nurse practitioner/herbalist who specializes in inner ecology imbalances. So, yes, I know I'm on the right track and have improved substantially in the last month or two. Except of course for this recent IC flair up. 



As for the intercourse, I never use condoms due to my extreme sensitivity to such things. I have no idea if the latex exasserbates the condition or not...better safe than sorry, tho. With all the things going on with my body, my interest in making love has dwindled to near nothing. And, when I do get in the mood, it's usually clouded over by fear that I will feel terrible the next day (no pain during). This anxiety isn't as bad as it was, since my condition has been improving. When I feel better, I want to do IT more, obviously. I'm newly engaged, for goodness sake!



Susan mentioned that juniper berries are much to irritating. Well, I didn't deliberately add them to my repitoire. They're the last ingredient in the tincture from Herb Pharm that I bought. Once again, that is a Goldenrod/Horsetail compound. Oh, and I stopped drinking coffee and alcohol cold turkey when this all started way back when. My diet is pristine:)



Nevertheless, I'm feeling much better than I was yesterday and the day before. 



Since I'm already *here*, I have another quick question. Buchu leaves are one of my all time favorite remedies for my sore bladder, but there has been some sort of embargo on them since last spring. Yesterday I saw some at my herb store and bought some. Now I'm wondering....think they're of good quality? Since they've been off the market for so long, can I be assured they aren't irradiated or other such business? Anyone familiar with buchu?



Thanks again. You guys are great.



Erica



