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Subject: [Herb] pc-spes recall

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I am curious to know more about the recent recall of the herbal combination

PC-SPES (nci). There was an article about it in the Wall Street Journal (front

of the B section) last week. WSJ suggests that as many as 10,000 men with

prostate cancer were taking this combination and that oncologists had

recommended it. It was found to be contaminated and recalled by the FDA. Some

prostate cancer advocacy web sites claim that it has been contaminated

alternately with DES and Warfarin, perhaps to enhance its activity and/or to

address blood-clot issues. I am interested because I find it fascinating that

MDs had actually marginally "accepted" this herbal combination (it was

trademarked and marketed more like a pharmaceutical), and yet the contamination

is now giving "herbalism" a bad name. 



I have absolutely no interest in the PC-SPES product, but I am very curious

about the components and their actions. I found this:



"We have been investigating the anti-tumor and antiproliferative effect Of PC 

SPES, a combination of eight different medicinal plants each having a 

distinct clinical effect (9-11). A dramatic drop in the prostate specific 

antigen (PSA) levels was observed in some advanced prostate cancer patients. 

PC-SPES is a refined powder containing Ganodermab lucidium Karst. 

Dendranthema morifolium Tzvel, Glycyrrhiza glabra L, Isatis indigotica, 

Panax pseudo-ginseng Wall, Rabdosia rubescens, Scutellaria baicalensis 

Georgi, and Serenoa repens ( 11 ,12). Several of these components exert 

significant biological effects for e.g. Ganoderma lucidium Karst exerts a 

strong immunomodulatory effects and the immunomodulatory protein LZ-8 has 

been identified (12); Baicalein a flavonoid derived from Scuttellaria 

baicalensis has anti-proliferative and lipooxygnesase-inhibitory activity 

(13); Serenoa repens is a potent phytoestrogen and its lipid extracts is an 

inhibitor of both type I and type 2 5a-reductase, the enzyme that converts 

testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, the active androgen in the prostate 

(14); Rg 1, a saponin derived from Panax ginseng has mitotic activity 

towards T cells similar to Concanavalin A (15,16) and ginseoside-Rb2 

inhibits angiogenesis in a transplantable tumor model; extracts of 

Glycyrrhiza glabra has been shown to have anti-mutagenic activity (17,18). 

It is the combination of several such potent medicinal plants that 

presumably exert a synergistic anti-proliferative effects by acting on 

multiple targets simultaneously."

[Abstracts of this and other PC-SPES studies can be found at

http://www.pc-spes.com/Studies.html-ssi]



The reductions in PSA that they were getting with PC-SPES were remarkable. I am

curious if anyone on the list knows more about PC-SPES? Also curious if anyone

uses or recommends blends similar to this for prostate cancer and if they are

effective -- or was the effect from the adulterants? 



Just for interest, this same group markets and sells another blend called SPES

for general treatment of cancer and chemo side-effects. Composition of SPES is:

Agrimonia pilosa, Cheng-min Chou, Cervus nippon, Corydalis bulbosa, Ganoderma

japonicum, Glycyrrhiza uralensis, Lycoris radiata, Mou-hui Tou, Panax ginseng,

Pollen, Pyrola rotundifolia, Rabdosia rubescens, Stephania sinica, Stephania

delavayi, Zanthoxylum nitidum, Soy milk.  Anyone have experience with this or

similar blends? 





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From hetta@saunalahti.fi Mon Apr 01 10:34:06 2002

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From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] pc-spes recall

Organization: Yrtit ja yrttiterapia

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Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu> wrote to herb@lists.ibiblio.org:



> Just for interest, this same group markets and sells another blend called SPES

> for general treatment of cancer and chemo side-effects. Composition of SPES is:

> Agrimonia pilosa, Cheng-min Chou, Cervus nippon, Corydalis bulbosa, Ganoderma



There's warfarin in PC-SPES and there's xanax in SPES... no matter what it's

pretty difficult to believe there'd be a plant with the same screening spectrum

as xanax.



It's _not_ a good idea to add pharmaceuticals to herbs, in the West, especially

if you're going to sell them over the counter, even if they do it all the time

in China.



Here's a relevant press release:

http://www.applications.dhs.ca.gov/pressreleases/store/pressreleases/02-03.html

(look at the source if you're using netscape, it's got table problems).



And another, from the distributor:

http://www.botaniclab.com/html/recall.html



The FDA accusations are quite believable; some TCM folks on herbal hall tried

months ago to emulate the formulas with what was stated on the labels, some with

success, others with less so. 



If you want to use something quite like PC-spes, but without the drugs, try a

blend of saw palmetto and "heating" herbs.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

hetta@saunalahti.fi           Henriette Kress            Helsinki, Finland   

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

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From Kathy.Bensinger@state.tn.us Mon Apr 01 20:28:27 2002

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Subject: [Herb] Re: cervical dyplasia -  natural treatments?

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suppositories made with multiple anti-viral, antineoplastic herbs.  They are easy to make from powdered herbs and cocoa butter.  The one I make includes myrrh, Pau D'arco, calendula, barberry root etc.  myrrh is very powerful.

KB

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Subject: [Herb] Re: cervical dyplasia -  natural treatments?

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<<<suppositories made with multiple anti-viral, antineoplastic herbs.  They 

are easy to make from powdered herbs and cocoa butter.  The one I make 

includes myrrh, Pau D'arco, calendula, barberry root etc.  myrrh is very 

powerful.

>>>



Kathy, can you tell us the results of using these suppositories on

patients you are familiar ..details please. thanx



Elliot





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Subject: [Herb] Re: cervical dyplasia -  natural treatments?

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Elliot,

Most of my clients who have used them have had an abnormal pap smear and are scheduled for a repeat test and possible biopsy. 



31 women had normal repeat paps.

2 women had lesions which cleared before biopsy time. 1 woman had vaginal polyps that did not resolve with suppositiry use; they tested non-cancerous but caused discomfort and bleeding during intercourse . She had them surgically removed but they grew back in only 2 months.  She had them removed again and used the suppositories for 2 weeks post-op.   No return.  She had a re-occurance a year later and had them frozen off, used the suppositories for 2 weeks and now uses them for three or four days in a row once each month as preventative.  we are addressing constitutional issues now.



I got the original formula from Susan Weed and have altered it a bit over the years.  

KB





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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: cervical dyplasia -  natural treatments?

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here's the web site for susan:



http://www.susanweed.com/



----- Original Message -----

From: "Kathy Bensinger" <Kathy.Bensinger@state.tn.us>

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 2:31 PM

Subject: [Herb] Re: cervical dyplasia - natural treatments?





> Elliot,

> Most of my clients who have used them have had an abnormal pap smear and

are scheduled for a repeat test and possible biopsy.

>

> 31 women had normal repeat paps.

> 2 women had lesions which cleared before biopsy time. 1 woman had vaginal

polyps that did not resolve with suppositiry use; they tested non-cancerous

but caused discomfort and bleeding during intercourse . She had them

surgically removed but they grew back in only 2 months.  She had them

removed again and used the suppositories for 2 weeks post-op.   No return.

She had a re-occurance a year later and had them frozen off, used the

suppositories for 2 weeks and now uses them for three or four days in a row

once each month as preventative.  we are addressing constitutional issues

now.

>

> I got the original formula from Susan Weed and have altered it a bit over

the years.

> KB

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Herb mailing list

> Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/herb

>



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<<<

The reductions in PSA that they were getting with PC-SPES were 

remarkable. I am curious if anyone on the list knows more about PC-SPES? 

Also curious if anyone uses or recommends blends similar to this for 

prostate cancer and if they are effective -- or was the effect from the 

adulterants? 

>>>



As a member of the Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists, you 

can imagine my surprise when in November of 2000 I ran across a

study involving PC-SPES published in one of the leading oncology

journals, the Journal of Clinical Oncology.  In this study, 33 patients

with androgen-dependent prostate cancer and 37 androgen-independent

prostate cancer were treated with PC-SPES. One-hundred percent of

all androgen-dependent patients had a PSA decline of 80% or more,

with a median duration of 57 weeks. One patient with bladder mass

measured on computed tomography scan experienced a disapearance

of the mass. No patient had progression of PSA during the study.



In the androgen-independent group, 54% had a PSA decline of 50% or

more, with a median time of 16 weeks.



Toxicity was considered in an acceptable range.



Elliot Freeman RPh

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<<<

There's warfarin in PC-SPES and there's xanax in SPES... no matter 

what it's pretty difficult to believe there'd be a plant with the same 

screening spectrum as xanax.

>>>



Yes it is difficult to believe ...but no more difficult than believing 

there's

lovastatin in red yeast rice. I'd say it does indeed appear that tampering

took place, but I'd be more comfortable if there was further proof

coming from somewhere other than the FDA.



Elliot





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Hello Members,

It was my understanding that the "Warfarin" aka coumadin is in fact a

coumarin (saponon) constituent of one of the herbs used in the PC SPES

formula.  It sure wouldn't lower ones PSA or contribute to the success

rate of the PC SPES.  Also the DES accusation could be mistaken for some

phytoestrogen from an herbal constituent, and not really DES.  These

things are all being investigated, but BotanicLab has done considerable

chemical assays of all the SPES prodicts.  It sure wouldn't be in their

best interest to put a product out these with obvious known

contaminants.  As for xanax contamination of SPES, what would that have

to do with using SPES as a cancer treatment formula?  My personal

experience has come from using RA SPES which was arbitrarily withdrawn

from the market by BotanicLabs, the manufacturer.  It was an outstanding

product for me and I was doing great using it for about 11 months.  I'm

back to my previous struggle since discontinuing its use.  Some

herbalists have implied that it was laced with prednisone, but I and

others disagree, since there were none of the usual side effects which

one would see with this steroid.  Things that make you go Hmmmmm.......

Spring Blessings,

Lynn

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From strasser@udel.edu Tue Apr 02 19:26:43 2002

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From: Susan Strasser <strasser@udel.edu>

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Subject: [Herb] Healing fascia

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Hi to you all from a long-time list member who generally lurks, with

thanks for all I've learned...



I've just been diagnosed with what the doctor describes as a small

hernia-like problem in my abdominal fascia -- a little piece of fat, she

thinks, sticking through a tiny tear in the fascia.  She was willing to

go with any of a range of options, from doing nothing and seeing what

happens through surgery (with injections of steroids and other things in

between).



I opted for nothing; what now?  Any ideas for helping fascia heal?  I

see fenugreek for regular hernias in some of my books...yes?  Anything

else?  Should I work on losing a pound or two to shrink the fat, or

doesn't fat work that way?



Thanks --



Susie Strasser





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From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Healing fascia

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I know massage helps with fascia but in that area I am not sure.

Linda S.



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Which is the best type of ginseng to take?

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Subject: [Herb] Re: coumarins vs warfarin

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<<<It was my understanding that the "Warfarin" aka coumadin is in fact a

coumarin (saponon) constituent of one of the herbs used in the PC SPES

formula. 

>>>



Coumarins, as you pointed out, are not the same as warfarin ...although

warfarin is a coumarin derivative. For those interested in biochemistry

and structure-activity-relationships, coumarin has no anticoagulant

activity and needs a hydroxy group at the -4 position and another

group at the -3 position. Many coumarins are constituents in plants

and may or my not have effects on coagulation based on their structure. 

The constituent in sweat clover, for example, is bishydroxycoumarin 

or dicumoral which became a prescription product and has been 

extensively used for a number of years. Whether these compounds 

can be easily mistaken by investigators (read FDA) for warfarin would 

be of vital interest to the herbal community.



For further information on coumarins from the Virginia University

School of Pharmacy see http://www.people.vcu.edu/~urdesai/cou.htm.





Elliot Freeman RPh

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From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: coumarins vs warfarin

Organization: Yrtit ja yrttiterapia

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Elfreem@aol.com wrote to herb@lists.ibiblio.org:



> Coumarins, as you pointed out, are not the same as warfarin ...although

> warfarin is a coumarin derivative. For those interested in biochemistry

> and structure-activity-relationships, coumarin has no anticoagulant

> activity and needs a hydroxy group at the -4 position and another

> group at the -3 position. Many coumarins are constituents in plants

> and may or my not have effects on coagulation based on their structure. 

> The constituent in sweat clover, for example, is bishydroxycoumarin 

> or dicumoral which became a prescription product and has been 

> extensively used for a number of years. Whether these compounds 

> can be easily mistaken by investigators (read FDA) for warfarin would 

> be of vital interest to the herbal community.



IIRC cows bled to death on _rotten_ hay. Fermented hay that included loads of

coumarin-rich plants like woodruffs and sweet clovers. If the hay has not

fermented there should be no risk of thinning the blood. 



So dry your sweet clover well, don't let it ferment. Unless, of course, you

_want_ to play Russian roulette with herbal analogues for warfarin.



Henriette



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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: coumarins vs warfarin

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Dear Henriette



> IIRC cows bled to death on _rotten_ hay. Fermented hay that included loads

of

> coumarin-rich plants like woodruffs and sweet clovers. If the hay has not

> fermented there should be no risk of thinning the blood.

>

The implications of this to the Farming Community are potentially very

serious. As I understand it, most silage ends up fermenting. Would this

imply that Sweet Clover cannot be used as silage feedstock, except at great

risk to the animals who eat it?



Kevin Chisholm





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From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: coumarins vs warfarin

Organization: Yrtit ja yrttiterapia

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"Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm@ca.inter.net> wrote to <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>:



> The implications of this to the Farming Community are potentially very

> serious. As I understand it, most silage ends up fermenting. Would this

> imply that Sweet Clover cannot be used as silage feedstock, except at great

> risk to the animals who eat it?



*pop*



There went your bubble. Think. Ensilage is not a new thing, it's been around for

decades (A.I.Virtanen got a Nobel for it, early last century). So if red clover

is a problem in ensilage, you can rest assured that the farmers know ALL about

it. If it's not a problem in ensilage, you can be sure that they know that, too.



Henriette



-- 

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From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: coumarins vs warfarin

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Does this include red clover as a sweet clover?

Linda S.







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From: Henriette Kress <hetta@saunalahti.fi>

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: coumarins vs warfarin

Organization: Yrtit ja yrttiterapia

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"Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com> wrote to herb@lists.ibiblio.org:



> Does this include red clover as a sweet clover?



Sweet clover is Melilotus spp.

Red clover is Trifolium spp.

While both are in the Leguminosae (or Fabacae), they're not all that closely

related. I've never heard of red clover as a blood thinner. Perhaps somebody

else?



Henriette



-- 

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: coumarins vs warfarin

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Red Clover can be a risk to livestock if it ferments and/or molds (ah

there's another door open) also....resulting in bleeding problems.  We used

to watch it carefully once cut before baling to ensure it was dry enough as

it took longer than the timothy to dry.  It certainly is very sweet and, in

my experience, is sweeter than most other varieties.  I don't know about its

having blood thinning properties unless the fermentation process is also a

part....however, in ruminents and to some degree in humans, that's an effect

of digestion.  Perhaps the biochemists could address this further.



Best Regards,

AA





----- Original Message -----

From: Henriette Kress



Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: coumarins vs warfarin





Sweet clover is Melilotus spp.

Red clover is Trifolium spp.

While both are in the Leguminosae (or Fabacae), they're not all that closely

related. I've never heard of red clover as a blood thinner. Perhaps somebody

else?



Henriette







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depends on your constitution and why you are taking it.

KB

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What would be the best anti-viral herbs/supplements to take to minimize 

the chances of contracting genital warts once exposed?

Thank you



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Subject: RE: [Herb] genital warts

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Echinacea, St. John's Wort, and an L-Lysine supplement.



-----Original Message-----

From: herb-admin@lists.ibiblio.org



What would be the best anti-viral herbs/supplements to take to minimize 

the chances of contracting genital warts once exposed?

Thank you









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Subject: Re: [Herb] genital warts

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>What would be the best anti-viral herbs/supplements to take to 

>minimize the chances of contracting genital warts once exposed?

>Thank you

>

Be sure you are getting a good amount of fresh greens in your food, 

spinach, kale, mallow,purslane. parsley, chickweed.. also some fresh 

or frozen berries for vit A,C,K,B's, folate, minerals. Don't smoke, 

use a barrier method for sex. Unfortunately not all HPVs make a 

visible blib.

      Calendula, violet, myrrh suppositories or a bolus of some fresh 

stuff, what plants are alive at the time you want to treat? If living 

up north I might use for a vaginal bolus, plantain,mallow and then 

anyone of these-,violets,small tender strawberry leaves and flowers, 

erodium/geranium, epilobium, yarrow, gaura, oenothera flowers. Sharon 

in Tucson

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Do you mean St. John's Wort in capsule form? Why the St. J'swort?

Linda S.



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Clinical research has shown SJW to have some powerful antiviral activities.

Its effects on HIV are currently being studied. Although there isn't any

clinical research on SJW and the herpes virus, there is a long history of

traditional use for this purpose.



My understanding is that SJW loses its potency very quickly, so should not

be taken in capsule form. Best is a fresh herb tincture.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----

From: herb-admin@lists.ibiblio.org



Do you mean St. John's Wort in capsule form? Why the St. J'swort?

Linda S.





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Clarification - I realize genital warts are caused by HPV, not HSV, but my

understanding is that these two viruses are similar in structure, thus it

makes sense to extrapolate that if SJW is effective on many similar

structured viruses, it would also be effective with HPV.



Kerry





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I have heard olive leaf extract is good, too.

Linda S.







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What is HSV?

Linda







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Herpes Simplex Virus



-----Original Message-----

From: herb-admin@lists.ibiblio.org

What is HSV?

Linda









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From drkelly@icdc.com Thu Apr 04 23:38:55 2002

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From: "Lynn Kelly, DC" <drkelly@icdc.com>

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Subject: [Herb] fascial hernia

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<<Any ideas for helping fascia heal?  >>



This is a systemic, not local problem.  Need good nutrition.  A hernia is a

hernia no matter where it is, tissues too weak.



Edgar Cayce reading says to use castor oil packs.



Another reading says olive oil with equal amount of arnica massaged into

area.



Chinese medicine ---  when massaging to rub clockwise to tighten and

counterclockwise to loosen.



If hernia is visible and palpable, put something on it to push it in and

tape it after massage.  In the old days for unbilical hernias they used to

put a penny on baby's navel to recess it and tape it to hold.

Usually see fat hernias on "well nourished" people.  Weight loss would most

likely help.



Many Cayce remedies and reasons for health problems can be found at:

http://www.meridianinstitute.com/



Good luck.

_________________________



"Don't let your spine get on your nerves."  Lynn Kelly, DC



http://members.aol.com/starchiro/starchiro.html



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From rochelle@ntlworld.com Sat Apr 06 13:04:46 2002

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Subject: [Herb] Juglans nigra

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Does anyone know of using Juglans Nigra  - Walnut hulls green black

topically

for acne rosacea? I have a very stubborn case of this in a 5 yr old woman

which I can't seem to tpuch with homeopathic remedies. I have just order

some tincture that I thought I would mix in with some aqueous creame which

her face does tolerate. The rosacea presents as pustules with a hard white

top which turns into a crust which flakes and becomes red and sore. She

takes a lot of echinacea as she keeps getting URTI which seem to be  now

responding to Lobelia tincture. She keeps to a very healthy raw veg diet

- a bit too restrictive if you ask me!!

Thanks in advance



Rochelle



www.rochellemarsden.co.uk







www.rochellemarsden.co.uk





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From mwherbs@dshome.net Sat Apr 06 14:02:22 2002

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Rochelle wrote :

>  The rosacea presents as pustules with a hard white

>top which turns into a crust which flakes and becomes red and sore. She

>takes a lot of echinacea as she keeps getting URTI which seem to be  now

>responding to Lobelia tincture. She keeps to a very healthy raw veg diet

>- a bit too restrictive if you ask me!!



  what I have seen is acne rosacea responds to anti-fungal treatments 

so juglans would probably work, but it is very staining so I am not 

sure I would want it on my face. Topically I would go for chiliopsis 

poultice locally and if up north epilobium also poultices because 

this condition is very hot. in addition drink some echinacea tea and 

then put the left over tea bag on the acne. if it is on the nose I 

would paint the inside of the nose with some tincture, if along the 

sinus( cheek bones) would give usnea /spilanthes tincture internally. 

Often what I think is this something that went deeper than the mucous 

membrane surface infection and is now out on the outside. I live in 

the desert so am always aware that an increase in hydration is key to 

tissue integrity, as well as other supportive measures, zinc and vit 

A foods. What else is going on with the organs of elimination? 

Sometimes it is the intestines need to be moving better, others it is 

liver, people with lung stuff and rosacea do better with some 

essential fatty acids and lecithin.

     What is URTI?

Sharon in Tucson

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Juglans nigra

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Sharon Hodges-Rust wrote:



> Rochelle wrote :

> >  The rosacea presents as pustules with a hard white

> >top which turns into a crust which flakes and becomes red and sore. She

> >takes a lot of echinacea as she keeps getting URTI which seem to be  now

> >responding to Lobelia tincture. She keeps to a very healthy raw veg diet

> >- a bit too restrictive if you ask me!!

>

>   what I have seen is acne rosacea responds to anti-fungal treatments

> so juglans would probably work



Does it?  I have rosacea, and my understanding was that it is not the fact

that metronidazole gel/cream are anti-fungal that makes them work, but some

other, poorly understood factor in the medication.  I have tried a black

walnut salve on my face, and my rosacea worsened, so I had to go back to the

Metrogel.  It was bad enough when it was diagnosed that I never left the

house without pancake makeup on, so I certainly don't want to go there

again.  Gail Ulrich told me that the only person she ever saw herbally clear

up rosacea was a woman who consumed a lot of burdock.



I would love to hear it if people really have had a good response to anything

herbal or natural.  Phebe suggested I try Camocare Gold cream, but that

didn't work for me either.



May

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Juglans nigra

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May, can't see it responding to most things that are cream base,other 

than the metro, because of the heat holding properties. I would do 

poultices directly

  so the person with the burdock treatment need some liver help 

classic for skin conditions, but I have seen some people who needed 

their lungs addressed, or their chronic constipation changed. I still 

think it is an infection that started out internally say in the sinus 

and then the surface of that mucous membrane healed over and the 

critter just went deeper into the tissue and came out the other side



sharon in tucson

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Hi,



Your anti-fungal idea is interesting...putting two and two together here. I

have rosacea and if I go out into the wind or cold, my face swells up bright

red with huge acne-like welts all over it. However, twice when I have stuck

to a strict low carb diet (not for the rosacea), my rosacea nearly cleared

up and I had none of the wind/cold reaction that I've been suffering for the

past several years. It was just an observation that I couldn't account for,

so I dismissed it as coincidence. Besides, what I've read about rosacea has

no connection to low carb. (Not to say there couldn't be a connection.)



Now that you mention anti-fungal, and knowing that my addiction and

consequent over-indulgence in carbohydrates probably feeds the yeast in my

system, I am thinking there may be something to that thought.



Thanks for the idea. :-)



gloria





>   what I have seen is acne rosacea responds to anti-fungal treatments

> so juglans would probably work, but it is very staining so I am not

> sure I would want it on my face.







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Subject: [Herb] skin problems.........acne rosacea

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Any skin problems...look at:



1. toxins to be eliminated



2. herbs needed to soothe intestines because of leaky gut (skin is

elimination organ).



3.  need to drink more water



4.  reduce stress



Temporarily stay away from spices, caffeine, hot peppers, wheat, dairy,

below freezing weather, saunas and steam and anything else that causes heat,

extreme cold or narrowing or widening of blood vessels.



Use slippery elm and American saffron teas to heal colon... from Edgar Cayce

reading..... ("a heaping teaspoonful of the Saffron in six ounces of water,

and let it steep much as tea would").



Marshmallow is very good, too.



Macrobiotic diet for a few weeks can help heal the intestines because of

seaweed and elimination of citrus, meats, nightshades (potatoes, tomatoes,

eggplant, bell peppers) and acidic foods.  Try not to do too many yeasty or

fermented things.



Cod liver oil or flax seed oil can do wonders for skin.



Acne Rosacea sometimes can be helped by topical antibiotic preparations,

herbal or otherwise, especially  if  pustules are part of the problem.  I

wouldn't  recommend systemic antibiotics because of yeast and immune system

complications unless nothing else works.



Most important.......Reduce stress...divorce it or tell it to get a job and

an apartment.

_________________________



"Don't let your spine get on your nerves."  Lynn Kelly, DC

http://members.aol.com/starchiro/starchiro.html



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Subject: [Herb] healing digestive system

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We know that many ailments begin in the colon, caused by antibiotics,

NSAIDS, stress, yeast, over acidity, caffeine, nightshades, lack of

digestive enzymes, etc.



Irritated colon leaks undigested food into tissues, causing autoimmune

problems.



This undigested food, arriving at:  1.  joints - causes arthritis  2. skin -

acne, psoriasis, etc; 3. diaphragm - asthma;  4. systemic - lupus and other

autoimmune diseases.



No matter what is wrong I usually recommend herbs to heal colon since our

diets aren't always optimal.  American saffron, marshmallow, slippery elm,

golden seal.



Listers, which herbs do you feel are best for healing digestive system?  For

restoring digestive enzymes?

_________________________



Lynn Kelly, DC       http://members.aol.com/starchiro/starchiro.html



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Subject: Re: [Herb] healing digestive system

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Question:  What is American saffron?



From an Ayurvedic standpoint, digestive herbs include turmeric, asafoetida

(especially for vata problems, the seat of which is the colon), triphala

(three fruits) also especially for the colon and to correct apana vayu

(downward moving energy which is often blocked in vata based imbalances),

trikatu (black pepper, long pepper and ginger).  Triphala guggul is also a

primary formula in digestive treatment.



The other element that is a foundation is diet as you have already

mentioned...eliminating red meats, eliminating raw and most cooked fruits

(sugars that feed ama), minimizing dairy use to ghee and buttermilk,

rebuilding digestion through use of mung and rice kicharees and gruels then

adding steamed vegetables seasoned according to prakruti (constitution) and

vikruti (imbalance).



Yoga asanas are also important as they assist in correcting the breath,

vitalizing the internal organs, and promoting sattvic (more spiritual and

clear) mental states as opposed to rajasic (action and sensory focused) and

tamasic ( inert, decaying and darkened) ones.



Thanks for your comments and information.



Aliceann





----- Original Message -----

From: Lynn Kelly, DC



Subject: [Herb] healing digestive system





We know that many ailments begin in the colon, caused by antibiotics,





Irritated colon leaks undigested food into tissues, causing autoimmune

problems.



No matter what is wrong I usually recommend herbs to heal colon since our

diets aren't always optimal.  American saffron, marshmallow, slippery elm,

golden seal.



Listers, which herbs do you feel are best for healing digestive system?  For

restoring digestive enzymes?









_______________________________________________

Herb mailing list

Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/herb



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To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

From: Natalie Pastor <npastor@mail.sdsu.edu>

Subject: Re: [Herb] healing digestive system

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Aliceann,

This would seem to indicate that triphala would be the best choice 

for diverticulitis on the left side of the body - is that correct/



Natalie





>Question:  What is American saffron?

>

>>From an Ayurvedic standpoint, digestive herbs include turmeric, asafoetida

>(especially for vata problems, the seat of which is the colon), triphala

>(three fruits) also especially for the colon and to correct apana vayu

>(downward moving energy which is often blocked in vata based imbalances),

>trikatu (black pepper, long pepper and ginger).  Triphala guggul is also a

>primary formula in digestive treatment.

>

>The other element that is a foundation is diet as you have already

>mentioned...eliminating red meats, eliminating raw and most cooked fruits

>(sugars that feed ama), minimizing dairy use to ghee and buttermilk,

>rebuilding digestion through use of mung and rice kicharees and gruels then

>adding steamed vegetables seasoned according to prakruti (constitution) and

>vikruti (imbalance).

>

>Yoga asanas are also important as they assist in correcting the breath,

>vitalizing the internal organs, and promoting sattvic (more spiritual and

>clear) mental states as opposed to rajasic (action and sensory focused) and

>tamasic ( inert, decaying and darkened) ones.

>

>Thanks for your comments and information.

>

>Aliceann

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: Lynn Kelly, DC

>

>Subject: [Herb] healing digestive system

>

>

>We know that many ailments begin in the colon, caused by antibiotics,

>

>

>Irritated colon leaks undigested food into tissues, causing autoimmune

>problems.

>

>No matter what is wrong I usually recommend herbs to heal colon since our

>diets aren't always optimal.  American saffron, marshmallow, slippery elm,

>golden seal.

>

>Listers, which herbs do you feel are best for healing digestive system?  For

>restoring digestive enzymes?

>

>

>

>

>_______________________________________________

>Herb mailing list

>Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/herb



-- 

Natalie Pastor

Library Instruction/Graphic Services

San Diego State University Library

619.594.2732

npastor@mail.sdsu.edu



"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

		~Albert Einstein

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Subject: Re: [Herb] healing digestive system

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Triphala is indicated for diverticulitis UNLESS there is an acute flare-up

with inflammation.  I would be inclined to start with a small amount...even

as little as a pinch (1/4/tsp) in  a cup of warm water at night before

bedtime to start, increasing to a three fingered pinch (1/2 tsp) after a

week.  It has both a laxative and tonic effect and does tone the colon and

rebuild tissues promoting better colon function.  The astringent qualities

also can result in decreasing loose stool caused by poor absorption and

colon function.  As you know diverticulitis can be a very nasty condition,

so I am always cautious about the risk of aggravating an inflammatory

response due to the pouches that form and the loss of smooth muscle and

nerve function in this type of condition.



I would expect that brahmi ghee (clarified butter with Centella asiatica

steeped in it) would be a good support for periods of irritation as it is

cooling, healing and well absorbed....also supporting lubrication and nerve

function.  Haven't tried it however, so perhaps someone else could address

this.



Best Regards,

AA



----- Original Message -----

From: Natalie Pastor

Subject: Re: [Herb] healing digestive system





Aliceann,

This would seem to indicate that triphala would be the best choice

for diverticulitis on the left side of the body - is that correct/



Natalie







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From drkelly@icdc.com Mon Apr 08 20:54:13 2002

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Subject: [Herb] American saffron/herbs for digestive system

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Thank you for information on Ayurvedic treatment of digestive system.  Now I

know why I like Indian food.



American saffron, also known as yellow saffron is the stigma (part of the

pistil) of a safflower.



Here is link to Meridian Institute webpage describing it.

http://www.meridianinstitute.com/echerb/Files/1ysaffro.html



This page gives wonderful descriptions of many other common herbs.

http://www.meridianinstitute.com/echerb/Files/profiles.html



Another description of saffron:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/searchpool.asp?target=@DOCTITLE%20saffron

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Subject: [Herb] mock bishop's weed and blackroot

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Hi-

Does anyone know anything about these two herbs? I have them in abundance here on my 

property-



Mock bishop's weed -ptiliminium nuttallii 



Blackroot- pterocaulon pycnostachyum (or virgatum, depending on who you talk to)



thanks,

emunah



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Subject: [Herb] Re: Blackroot (Pterocaulon pycnostachyum)

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Kim: Where do you live? Must be down here in the South, eh? Interesting

that you ask about Pterocaulon pycnostachyum. I would also like to know

more about it. I co-hosted an afternoon workshop with Florida Seminole

herbalist Mary Johns two years ago....I can't find my notes right now, but

I recall that she said it was a "women's herb" and that it was only to be

harvested by menopausal women or women past child-bearing (i.e., not to be

harvested by the woman who needed it). 



Julia Morton features it among 60 medicinal plants in her excellent 1974

book "Folk Remedies of the Low Country" (research done in the Southeastern

US coastal plain). [nci -- This book is a must-have for southeastern US

herbalists! It can be ordered for $12.95 plus shipping by calling the

bookstore of the Fairchild Tropical Gardens in Miami at 305-667-1651 x

3324.]  Julia Morton has a number of other useful titles out there for

herbalists, but it should be noted that she was a toxicologist, so she is

always referring to the poisonous potential of the plant kingdom.



Here is Julia's text on the "current use" of blackroot in rural South

Carolina pre-1974 [my comments in brackets]:

"Decoction of root is taken for colds and menstrual cramps. Some boil whole

root, let the 'tea' cool and drink for 'back ache.' Root is boiled with

whiteroot (Aralia spinosa [devil's walkingstick]) and the decoction imbibed

to relieve asthma. The combined decoction is also given to women who have

colds during confinement. Blackroot may be boiled with whiteroot and twigs

of red cedar (Juniperus silicicola), or with root of Asclepias tuberosa and

heartleaf snakeroot (Hexastylis arifolia), and the liquid taken as a cold

remedy."

"Properties and historical medical uses: Root is narcotic [she cites

Greshoff's "The Distribution of Prussic Acid in the Vegetable Kingdom,

Phytochemical Investigations at Kew"]. Dr. Porcher wrote "Much use is made

of this plant...as an alterative. It is supposed to be possessed of decided

value. It is well known as the blackroot of the negroes. A decoction of the

root is given several times a day.' "

"Other utility: Leave have been chewed as a tobacco substitute."





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From: Rena Henson <rena1695@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: Blackroot (Pterocaulon pycnostachyum)

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Where do you live? Must be down here in the

> South, eh?



Does anyone know of a website that has more

information on this herb and a picture?  I am in NC/SC

and would love to go for a walk in the woods and look

for it.  I have not been able to find a website....



Thanks so much!



Rena





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From sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu Fri Apr 12 04:33:30 2002

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Subject: [Herb] Re: Blackroot (Pterocaulon pycnostachyum)

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:33:30 -0400

Status: O



Rena and others: Here are some sites for viewing Pterocaulon

pycnostachyum....literally "winged stem with dense spike." You will see

that the Latin exactly describes this unusual Aster family member. If you

seach Google or another search engine on the Latin name, you will see some

other sites come up as well. If you live in the coastal plain of SC/NC, I

strongly recommend you get Julia Morton's book that I mentioned in my last

post. The coastal plain is the physiographic province of the flat lands

below the piedmont area and way below the mountains. It's the part of the

state that doesn't freeze...much.



Here's a consultant's web page with lots of great Florida (=S.E. Coastal

Plains) plant pics:

http://www.biologicalresearch.com/plants/



Here's a South Carolina plant atlas with distribution maps so you can see

if it occurs in your county:

http://cricket.biol.sc.edu/herb/



Atlas of Florida plants -- under each plant you can see maps and photos:

http://www.plantatlas.usf.edu



Here's the UNC Herbarium (I didn't see pictures, but might be a good resource):

http://www.ibiblio.org/unc-biology/herbarium/ 

Also see the North Carolina Botanical Gardens.



Pterocaulon is a favorite plant of mine...it grows on my property. I would

still be interested in what others know about uses of the plant. Anyone

have anything to add?  --Susan in Florida





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Hi,



would anyone like to relate their experience of using herbs for labour?



I am interested in all, and have a special interest in Lobelia and capsicum

as in the physiomedicalist tradition. Also, Anemone (pulsatilla),

Caulophyllum (blue cohosh), Viburnum (cramp bark), Gelsemium, Valeriana,

Rubus/Mitchella etc. If you have used any of these or others, please could

you say when each are indicated and the kinds of frequencies and dosages

that work best. Teas won't really be an option during the labour, but would

be post partum (eg nettle and raspberry).



Has anyone found a topical lotion for pains in the back and pelvis useful?

Again I was thinking lobelia and capsicum might be an idea, but would like

ideas how to convert the tinctures into something more oily?



Thanks,

Namh (niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk)

-- 

(Niamh and the listserver have ...issues. We're working on them. 

Henriette, listowner.)



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From HerbalSW@aol.com Thu Apr 11 14:31:39 2002

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:31:39 EDT

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I am giving a lecture on herbs for pregnancy this weekend.  Would you like a 

materia medica (as long as you quote me because I have done a TREMENDOUS 

amount or research on this...)

Catherine



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

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There is also a homeopathic cream by Heel called Traumeel that is a 

phenomenal topical analgesic and bruise/sprain healer remedy.





Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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From jclarke1@mn.rr.com Thu Apr 11 16:06:24 2002

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Subject: RE: [Herb] Herbs for labor

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:06:24 -0500

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I used black cohosh when my uterus was starting to shut down and become less

effective. IIRC, the amount my midwife gave to me was 15 drops sublingually

every hour. Of course, the uterus won't become more effective if it's not

being fed, so I chased this with a couple spoonfuls of honey. I've used and

recommended both valerian and motherwort during labor, around 2-3

droppersful of each (more for valerian, if needed) in juice or tea, ad lib.

I've also recommended either viburnums, as well as valerian, for preterm

labor, irritable uterus, as well as threatened miscarriage.



This is related to one of my big soapbox issues, because I'm very active in

internet parenting communities. One of the topics that frequently comes up

is "natural induction" methods. Mothers seem to have it in their head that

if it's not Cytotec or Pitocin, then it's safe. No - induction is induction,

regardless if it's Cytotec and Pitocin, or blue/black cohosh and castor oil.

You're still forcing a baby to come out before he/she is ready, and that's

ALMOST NEVER a good thing. So I strongly discourage the use of labor

stimulant/augmentation herbs until/unless the mother is already actively in

labor and she's using them under the guidance of someone who is EXPERIENCED

with their use. So many moms try to "self medicate." A site that's often

used (and does have some valuable information) is right here:



http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/



Another thing that's very de rigueur is using "labor prep" cocktails like 5W

or PN6. In my experience, what these do is cause the mother to have weeks of

prodromal labor, which simply exhausts her to the point that she does not

have enough energy stores when the time comes that she actually needs it.

And of course, if you're birthing in a hospital, this will mean augmenting

the labor with Pitocin which often then snowballs into other interventions.

Not to mention that these herbs should not be taken with a history of

previous C-section.



Sorry for rambling, this is a HUGE area of interest for me and I have lots

of thoughts and opinions on the subject.



Kerry





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From mwherbs@dshome.net Thu Apr 11 19:50:49 2002

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Herbs for labor

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:50:49 -0700

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    Warning- reading info in a book or on this list does not 

substitute for experience, the best way to learn these herbs would be 

to apprentice as a midwife with someone who uses them so you can 

learn the full context of use. Most labors should not me messed with 

in any wrote fashion, pain will be pain and women's endorphins 

increase as labor increases. Water, counter pressure, position 

changes, relaxation, safe environment, low lights, eating and 

drinking, going to the bathroom, are the most useful things to help 

labor. The others are for special situations that don't occur often.



Niamh, I have worked with midwives for 20 years now. Tea was more of 

an option in the 80's than it is now, and for some clients it still 

is the only way they will take an herb.

      Capsicum is the one you would more often than not see as a tea , 

most midwives I have known that use it, do so for hemorrhage it is 

often given in combination with capsella (shepherd's purse) or as a 

topical antiseptic and possible stiptic, poured onto the hand before 

it was inserted for bimanual compression or a manual removal.

       Lobelia in tincture give no more than 5 drops at a time no more 

often than every 15 min this can help relax a mom somewhere at 5-7 cm 

that has that tight sound in the voice( but not every woman at 

transition)--- this can change relax baby as well and will change 

heart tones so for a baby that has some low dips or is already 

sleeping at the time DON't give it.  Some women find this herb to be 

disorienting. I have seen it work best in ex-smokers who have quit 

smoking in pregnancy.

       Caulophyllum and cimicifuga most often used together, as a 

tincture or tea to start labor in women who are post dates or already 

have ruptured membranes. may be given at the same time or just after 

castor oil.  castor oil is usually given in 2 and rarely 3 doses 

2oz then a few hrs later another 2 oz .  after the first dose of 

castor oil, tinctures of BB are given  and I have seen different 

dosages preferred by different midwives, 10-30 drops of maybe a 1-5 

tincture given every 10-30 min and believe me you are monitoring the 

heart tones if you are using B+B.What you are shooting for is a good 

contraction pattern. Also nothing enters the vagina if the membranes 

are ruptured and birth is not eminent this includes a curious 

midwife's fingers.  some midwives have used this combo along with 

other herbs as a tea or in caps as part of a 6 week formula. There 

has been one reported case of a mother self dosing and having a baby 

with Congestive heart failure that may or maynot be related.

       Viburnum (cramp bark) used as glycerin, tincture or tea to 

quiet preterm labor or especially annoying braxton-hicks contractions 

that keep a mom from getting a good nights rest,(the mom who has been 

kept awake with contractions 2- 3 nights in a row).  Also at times in 

labor when contractions seem to be not as effective or incoordinate 

in established labor.

         Anemone (pulsatilla) mostly given in homeopathing doseages 

before labor to turn a breech careful will also turn a vertex baby. 

In labor to help get a shift from the baby

         Gelsemium is too touchy to address on a public list, it is 

very potent and is only used in the tiniest doses, probably you would 

be better off with a homeopathic dosing.  Most midwives I know don't 

use or know how to use this herb

         Valeriana- for a worn out mom to help her get some sleep 

could be anytime long prodomal stage or an exausted mom at 10 cm, you 

are still following heart tones  and usually check them as it is 

taking effect if anything you give has a big effect on heart tones 

you don't add another dose.



For back pain, hands and knees position, more often than not the baby 

is posterior and needs to rotate forward. counter pressure on 

mother's lower back she will almost always be able to tell you where. 

Sometimes belly lifting or a band , a stream of warm water directed 

from a hand held shower,St. John's wort oil,sitting in a tub of very 

warm water,walking or dancing, keep the bladder empty,  sterile water 

papules,sometimes moxa. Capsicum as a counter-irritant in labor would 

be hard to work with, because if it didn't work or was too 

overstimulating for the mom it would take some doing to get rid of.

Sharon in Tucson





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Catherine,

Is your materia medica for pregnancy/labor available (for love or money)? A 

friend is planning a pregnancy, and it would be great to have the fruits of 

your research on hand.

Thanks,

Ann



In a message dated 4/11/02 7:32:52 AM, HerbalSW@aol.com writes:



>I am giving a lecture on herbs for pregnancy this weekend.  Would you like

>a 

>materia medica (as long as you quote me because I have done a TREMENDOUS

>

>amount or research on this...)

>Catherine

>

>Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

>Eagle Spirit Healing Center

>Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

>www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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From rena1695@yahoo.com Thu Apr 11 16:17:58 2002

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From: Rena Henson <rena1695@yahoo.com>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Re: [Herb] Kava Kava

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:17:58 -0700 (PDT)

Status: O



>  

> Kava has indeed a very good safety record, but the

> 28 cases of liver

> problems in Germany and Swizerland, with 5 liver

> transplant and two

> deaths are not to be taken lightly.  Check the list

> archives for

> discussion on this and on the type of kava

> standardised extract used.

> For a very complete review see EHPA websites, it has

> it all.

> 

> Cheers

> Marco

> 



I understand that this study was done with

standardized Kava which was processed with

acetone....Perhaps the kava wasn't the problem.  Also,

was it mentioned in the study how much alcohol was

consumed by each person?  The report I read did not. 

Perhaps that was a factor in the liver damage

especailly if it was long term use of the alcohol.



I believe caution and common sense should be used with

any herb.  I also believe SOME (not all) people in the

Western medical commuity know that herbs really do

work and know they will lose money once people are

educated and began self treatment.  Therefore, often

(not always) studies are "slanted" to produce a bad

press coverage - when in truth all factors have not

been considered. 



It all comes down to $$$  - in my opinion. :o)  



Rena







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From KatrinaRickett@hotmail.com Thu Apr 11 16:54:40 2002

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Subject: [Herb] Chewing Tobacco

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:40 -0500

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I have a friend that is hooked on the nicotine contained in chewing tobacco.

He has never really been interested in smoking, per se, just chewing

tobacco.  



Does anyone have suggestions for either an herbal substitute for this or a

way to stop chewing altogether?  I know that there are methods and

substitutes for smoking, but this is altogether different, except for the

addiction to nicotine.



Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated.



Thanks. 



Kathleen 

Dallas, Texas 



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From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Chewing Tobacco

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On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:54:40AM -0500, Katrina Rickett wrote:

> I have a friend that is hooked on the nicotine contained in chewing tobacco.

> He has never really been interested in smoking, per se, just chewing

> tobacco.  

> 

> Does anyone have suggestions for either an herbal substitute for this or a

> way to stop chewing altogether?



Nicotine gum, allegedly reliant upon placebo effect, works fine in 

those who're committed to quitting, and is usually the aid preferred by 

those quitting a snuff habit, it being so similar in application to 

what they're accustomed to. (I live in a cow town, so encounter lots of 

folks with "chew" habits.)



My advice to anyone trying to get rid of a tobacco habit is to just 

quit, using whichever aid he or she is most comfortable with, and when

the desire to commit mayhem becomes almost overwhelming, just start 

back up again, with a promise to oneself to quit again in the near 

future, without self-imposed guilt. There is no shame in experiencing

setbacks when trying to get loose of such an addictive substance as 

nicotine.



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----

PGP/GPG Public Key: asackett-pubkey@artsackett.com (autoresponder)



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> I have a friend that is hooked on the nicotine contained in chewing tobacco.

> He has never really been interested in smoking, per se, just chewing

> tobacco.  



> Does anyone have suggestions for either an herbal substitute for this or a

> way to stop chewing altogether?  I know that there are methods and

> substitutes for smoking, but this is altogether different, except for the

> addiction to nicotine.



> Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated.



> Thanks. 



> Kathleen 



Lobelia contains alkaloids that are said to be able to substitute for nicotine

while being nonaddictive, thus lobeline is sometimes used to help quit smoking,

and could presumably be used for tobacco chewing as well.



Another issue is the chewing habit.  Maybe the tobacco chewer would need

something to chew, to feel like chewing tobacco and involve practically the

same motions, while not containing actual tobacco and nicotine.

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Substitutes such as gum, chewy FruitSavers, etc. can help to ward off a craving.



The hardest part of a craving is the first 90 seconds.  If he can get through

that, then he's got a good chance of quitting.  The first day your committment is

strong and you're pumped to quit, the second day is actually the hardest.  Once

the third gets there, you feel much more confident about quitting.



Hope he hangs in there!  Mouth cancer is nasty stuff to deal with.



Jeanette



Thomas Mueller wrote:



> > I have a friend that is hooked on the nicotine contained in chewing tobacco.

> > He has never really been interested in smoking, per se, just chewing

> > tobacco.

>

> > Does anyone have suggestions for either an herbal substitute for this or a

> > way to stop chewing altogether?  I know that there are methods and

> > substitutes for smoking, but this is altogether different, except for the

> > addiction to nicotine.

>

> > Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated.

>

> > Thanks.

>

> > Kathleen

>

> Lobelia contains alkaloids that are said to be able to substitute for nicotine

> while being nonaddictive, thus lobeline is sometimes used to help quit smoking,

> and could presumably be used for tobacco chewing as well.

>

> Another issue is the chewing habit.  Maybe the tobacco chewer would need

> something to chew, to feel like chewing tobacco and involve practically the

> same motions, while not containing actual tobacco and nicotine.

> _______________________________________________

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> Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

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From sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu Fri Apr 12 04:36:21 2002

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:36:21 -0400

Status: O



Anyone else from the list joining us in Black Mountain the first of June

for the Medicines From the Earth conference (nci)? If so, I would love to

meet and greet you there, as it is always a pleasure to chat with fellow

herblisters. If you don't know about the conference, you can see more at

http://www.botanicalmedicine.org/conferences/me2002/

Early registration deadline is April 17. We also are looking for potential

carpools out of Florida.  --Susan near Gainesville, FL

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From marcobabi@libero.it Fri Apr 12 10:13:37 2002

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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:13:37 +0200

Status: 



Rena Henson wrote:

 

> I understand that this study was done with

> standardized Kava which was processed with

> acetone....Perhaps the kava wasn't the problem.  



Indeed, in fact the main argument against knee-jerk reactions following 

these

cases is that acetrone-based standardised and concentrate extract of 

kawa

ain't like chewed kava, or brewed kava or normal (galenical) tinctures 

of

kawa.  One of the main differencs is that the former contains  30-70%

kavalactones and virtually no gluthatione, while the traditional 

extracts

contain 2-5% kavalactones and a good amount of gluthatione, possibly 

important

for liver detoxification.  Still, it is I think important not to exclude 

any

options, because we haven't had the possibility to read the complete cae

histories.  I believe  FDA reaction to be less alarmistic and more 

realistic

than those of the EU members, which have in general withdrawn the 

products

even before reading the cases.



Also,

> was it mentioned in the study how much alcohol was

> consumed by each person?  The report I read did not.

> Perhaps that was a factor in the liver damage

> especailly if it was long term use of the alcohol.





On the EHPA site you'll find a short report on the cases.  I also have 

the

original german document  (transl in english).  Apparently there was one 

case

of alcohol overdosage, and only two cases not associated with other 

drugs, but

in the majority of cases there was concomitant use of potentially

liver-damaging drugs.  In general the MCA (UK) mantains that of all the 

cases

there are 5 cases of probable connection (kawa extract-liver damage) and 

5

cases of possible connection.



Cheers



Marco



-- 

Marco Valussi BSc (Hons.) Herbal Medicine

Medical Herbalist

Vicolo Santa Cecilia 7

37121

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It has been suggested to me that I use a supplement which contains 

Vinpocetine, a derivative from Periwinkle to help with age related macular 

degeneration.  It is supposed to help increase the amount of oxygen 

available to the brain and increase the rate of ATP production among many 

other things.

I wondered if anyone has had any experience in using the whole herb for 

this problem and whether you would recommend it for this purpose.



Thanks for any help or information you can give me.



Anna Ingre



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Subject: [Herb] Are antimicrobial herbs more effective than drugs?

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Hi all,



I was wondering what you all thought about the belief that plant remedies are 

more effective than drugs, such as antibiotics, especially in light of the 

growing problem antimicrobial resistance to drugs? IS there any reason to 

believe that microbes would NOT develop a "resistance" to plant stuffs that we 

humans ingest as well?



Thanks!

Melissa





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Subject: [Herb] celexa and st john's wort

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Can anyone tell me if there are counterindications for Celexa and St. John's 

wort for an 8 year old female with among other things generalized anxiety 

disorder? I have also tried chamomile, lemon balm, passionflower, 5 flower 

essences, chicory (fe), 

I am concerned about trying some heavier duty anti-anxiety herbs on her but 

the situation is getting desperate she is full blown school phobic, there are 

multiple emotional issues including an impending divorce (who is the IP)? 

here?

I don't want her to go back on the meds because she had strong side effects 

and the psychiatrist doesn't want to try any anti anxiety meds.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance

Catherine





Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

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<the situation is getting desperate she is full blown school phobic,>



The school needs to be looked at, closely and with a set of eyes distant

from her home problems.  I'd lay money that she's getting some sort of abuse

at school.



- T, been there.



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Subject: [Herb] Re:  celexa and st john's wort

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Catherine wrote:

>

>I am concerned about trying some heavier duty anti-anxiety herbs on her but

>the situation is getting desperate she is full blown school phobic, there are

>multiple emotional issues including an impending divorce (who is the IP)?

>here?



Well it doesn't seem to be in her head which is why you treat someone 

with psyc drugs. the anxiety has really causes and is a real response 

to what is going on.

this sounds more like a place for tools and communication. This kido 

needs some ways of communicating her distress, some of the causes of 

her distress may need to be changed or treated another way by the 

adults in her life.  Why school phobia if there is a divorce, what is 

happening at school?

Sharon in Tucson

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re:  celexa and st john's wort

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Thanks for the suggestions and the feed back, but my original question was 

about the Celexa and SJW johnswort.  I am not the primary therapist in the 

case and the family is heading back toward regular psychotropic meds.  I 

understand the need for behavioral interventions, have suggested them but the 

question IMMEDIATELY at hand is the medication aspect. I can't seem to find 

any recent info regarding the counterindications of SJW and Celexa.

Does any one know of some website (objective) that can give me some info 

later than 1998?

Thanks in advance



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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This is a tough question and you might have problems getting specific

answers even from the biochem folks on the interaction.  I would not

recommend giving a child a double whammy of psychoactive substances.

Neither of these medications is likely to address the underlying problem.

If she's afraid to go to school because a bad thing might happen at home

while she is away....like a parent leaving or a big fight, then only

reassurance, love and keeping her schedule as regular as possible is going

to make a difference.  If there is some danger at school as has been

suggested, then a quiet observation should be used by the parent of the

school day... especially recesses, lunch breaks, and bathroom breaks.



Symptoms always are there for a reason....even for little ones.  They are

our way of trying to protect ourselves.  Better to try to find the danger

than to change or suppress the symptoms from my point of view.  (It's sort

of like the parent who brings a child in to me for assessment and then

controls the child's behavior so I won't get mad at either the parent or the

youngster...covering up symptoms isn't any help).



If this youngster is developing a phobia or has a true anxiety disorder, St.

Johnswort won't touch it.   1/2 tsp Ashwagandha  (gee where have we heard

about that before?) in warm milk with a little cinnamon and honey before bed

might make a difference.  Lavender oil on a scent ring on her bedroom lamp

might help with calming. Nurturing foods, laughter and giggles, play, warmth

and safety all will help during a difficult time like a family break-up.  If

the parents can't do this due to their stress, perhaps a relative can take

some time to give support and friendship until the waters calm a bit.



For what it's worth in the scheme of things.



Blessings





----- Original Message -----

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: celexa and st john's wort





Thanks for the suggestions and the feed back, but my original question was

about the Celexa and SJW johnswort.  herb



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From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re:  celexa and st john's wort

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Aliceann Carlton wrote:



> This is a tough question and you might have problems getting specific

> answers even from the biochem folks on the interaction.  I would not

> recommend giving a child a double whammy of psychoactive substances.

> Neither of these medications is likely to address the underlying problem.

>

> Symptoms always are there for a reason....even for little ones.  They are

> our way of trying to protect ourselves.  Better to try to find the danger

> than to change or suppress the symptoms from my point of view.



I've been watching this thread with interest, and I have to add my 2 cents,

which is probably worth...2 cents.



If you have ever had a severe anxiety disorder, you know how awful the symptoms

are.  Not just the emotional symptoms, but shortness of breath, racing heart,

nausea, diarrhea.  It's all well and good to say, treat the underlying problems,

but it is cruel, in my opinion, to expect anyone, in particular a child, to

endure these symptoms for any length of time while the underlying issues are

being worked on.  Give her some relief (which can include herbs, but may not be

exclusively non-allopathic), at which point she will probably be much more able

to actually focus enough to take part in her own therapy, whatever that is.



Let me just add, in case people didn't get the hint...if you have NOT ever had a

severe anxiety disorder, you DON'T know how awful it can be.  I always said I

would put up with any amount of pain to be rid of the severe anxiety I suffered

for a period of a couple of years.



May

--

Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel. True! And they have many

other fine qualities as well.  ---Missy Dizick





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From: "Aliceann or Scott" <carlton@midrivers.com>

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re:  celexa and st john's wort

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Agreed May,



Hi May,



You are preaching to the choir here.  I survived severe anxiety throughout

childhood and then panic attacks until I was 24.  Once my cardiac arrythmia

was diagnosied and treated allopathically, life took on new meaning.  But,

my mom taught me breathing and relaxation techniques from the age of 6, and

she and my dad stepped in to the school problems whenever they noticed I was

getting sick more often, sad and anxious more often or just plain cranky in

attitude.



Food included cream sauces and gravies (in moderate amounts), well balanced

diet and all the time I wanted outdoors clambering over rock walls and

wandering through the woods and fields....my refuge then and now.  There was

lots of music, lots of laughter, and lots of support in ways I didn't

realize until many years later....so, it's not either or but both approaches

in my opinion.  I still would be wary of using two psychoactive substances

whose interactions are not entirely known in a child especially.





I'm a mental health professional....working with both children and adults

with all kinds of anxiety and depression problems.  I agree that there needs

to be relief and comfort for this youngster....perhaps including an

antidepressant.  My point was not to throw both at her at once, and to

simultaneously look into the underlying pressures and problems.



Blessings and peace,

Aliceann





----- Original Message -----

From: May Terry

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: celexa and st john's wort





If you have ever had a severe anxiety disorder, you know how awful the

symptoms

are.  Not just the emotional symptoms, but shortness of breath, racing

heart,

nausea, diarrhea.  It's all well and good to say, treat the underlying

problems,

but it is cruel, in my opinion, to expect anyone, in particular a child, to

endure these symptoms for any length of time while the underlying issues are

being worked on.



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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re:  celexa and st john's wort

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There are so many other dynamics (as you can guess than jsut the school issue 

and the impending divocrce...)Sometimes I don't like working for kids for 

what they have to go through...

Anyway, can you explain to me about ashwaganda.  I ahve only known it to be a 

vitalizing herb for males.

Thanks in advance

Catherine



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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Ayurvedic Herbs - Ashwagandha





From A Yoga of Herbs by David Frawley and Vasant Lad



Ashwagandha (Winter Cherry)

Withania somnifera

Solanaceae



Sanskrit Name Ashwagandha --That which has the smell of a horse, as it gives

the vitality and the sexual energy of a horse



Part Used:  The root



Energetics:  bitter, astringent, sweet/heating/sweet

      VK-(decreases Vata and Kapha) P (no increase or decrease) and Ama+

(increases or aggravates in excess)



Tissues:  muscle, fat, bone, marrow and nerve, reproductive



Systems: reproductive, nervous and respiratory



Actions: tonic, rejuvenative, aphrodisiac, nervine, sedative, astringent



Indications:  general debility, sexual debility, nerve exhaustion

convalescence, problems of old age, emaciation of children, loss of memory,

loss of muscular energy...anemia fatigue, glandular swelling

precautions:  high Ama, severe congestion

Preparation:  decoction, milk decoction, powder (250 mg to 1 g.), paste,

medicated ghee, medicated oil



Frawley comments (selected parts)  "Ashwagandha holds a place in Ayurvedic

pharmacology similar to ginseng in Chinese medicine, yet it is far less

expensive.  It is the best rejuvenative herb, particularly for the muscles,

marrow and semen and for Vata constitution.  It is used in all conditions of

weakness and tissue deficiency in children, the elderly, those debilitated

by chronic diseases, those suffering from overwork, lack of sleep or nervous

exhaustion...."



That being said, it is important to understand how to interpret the Vedic

presentation of information about herbs as it is their qualities, actions

and long term effects that form the core of understanding about whether to

use an herb, in what manner and with what other herbs or foods and lifestyle

practices.  This understanding is universal to all life and to the cosmos in

the Ayurvedic view.



Aliceann Carlton, LCPC, DAy    LifeWorks Ayurveda 2002

----- Original Message -----

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: celexa and st john's wort



Anyway, can you explain to me about ashwaganda.  I ahve only known it to be

a

vitalizing herb for males.

Thanks in advance

Catherine







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I can tell you she is hypersensitive to sounds and is overwhelmed by a lot of 

stimulation (which is exactly what happens in schools, eh?)

The parents are in strong conflict over natural versus traditional 

interventions.



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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May,  I personally think your 2 cents is worth its weight in gold! Having 

suffered panic attacks - they are worst, most overwhelming feeling anyone can 

experience - the fear of the "next one" is equally paralyzing.  Mine occur 

when my thyroid is "out of whack",which of course my doctors deny (the two 

cannot be related - wrong). I can't imagine a child suffering with these 

symptoms - i agree - no one can focus on getting to the heart or problem 

while consumed with the symptoms.  Now you have my 2 cents.

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I have horrid panic attacks, too and have been able to medicate them with 

conditioning and herbs.  

2 pennies in Chicago



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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so what could be a dosage for a small framed 8 year old who is VERY sensitive 

to any meds



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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From drkelly@icdc.com Sun Apr 21 02:00:03 2002

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From: "Lynn Kelly, DC" <drkelly@icdc.com>

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Subject: [Herb] 8 year old female

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Hope this isn't too far off the list subject....My 6 year old grandson woke

up and went to the bathroom to urinate 13 times during one night.  After

having a doc clear him for illness I went to the school, stood inside the

front door and listened to his teacher down the hall screech, scream and

belittle students for about 1/2 hour.  (No one ever made the honor role in

the class, either.)  When I asked principal how that could happen I got a

"wonderful teacher" reply.  Since they wouldn't do anything about her, I

took him out of the school.  His nighttime bathroom visits stopped

immediately.   Problem is, he didn't know he was being mistreated and had

never complained about her or school.  It was just a hunch.



After school is looked at (including bullying from other children)....

Maybe breath control instruction for something to focus on and give a

feeling of control over the situation.  Sometimes shallow breathing causes

body to think it's suffocating; breathing too deeply causes

hyperventilation, both can set off anxiety attacks.  Know of asthmatic

children who were given a crystal and meditation and breathing instructions

and it prevented full blown attacks.



Good luck.

_________________________



"Don't let your spine get on your nerves."  Lynn Kelly, DC



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From carlton@midrivers.com Sun Apr 21 19:23:47 2002

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Subject: [Herb] St. Johnswort and Celexa Interactions

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If you want to tease out the interactions, try going to James' Duke's

database at

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/duke/farmacy2.pl, ask for a display of

chemical constituents and actions as well as references.  Chase down the

references that seem pertinent.  Also, Michael Moore's website at the

Southwest School of Botanical Medicine has a number of research abstracts

that might be pertinent.



Then go to the newest PDR and look up Celexa....or go to their website. Look

through the chemical actions and components.  Look through the effects,

metabolism and adverse effects/precautions.  Analyze the differences...and

similarities chemically and biochemically.  The vet pages also have a lot of

information on St.  Johnswort in it's toxic effects....primarily on

photosensitization which also is a reported (but not necessarily causal)

effect of Celexa.



Celexa advises against concurrent use of any MAOI medications.....St.

Johnswort is not  an MAOI but it seems to have some similar properties at

times and in high doses....which may not need to be as high in children.  In

fact very little research is done on any medications with children so most

dosing is a shot in the dark.



Additionally there might be the question of unknown but interesting

interference of St. Johnswort with other medications including

anti-depressants....sometimes potentiating and sometimes reducing.



Hope this gives you some ideas for chasing down resources.  Some docs and

pharmacists now have a very big book of prescription drugs and

herbal/supplement interactions which might be a resource as well....I can't

recall the name at this moment but saw a copy recently.



St, Johnswort is an amazing and effective herb for a lot of things from

depression to viral loads to some cancer treatments....but it is very active

physiologically as well so should be used with that in mind.



Good luck,

Aliceann



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Thanks, Alice Ann!



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

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From carlton@midrivers.com Sun Apr 21 19:25:52 2002

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Subject: [Herb] Vata Disturbances and Herbs -- Anxiety

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Hi Catherine and All,



I posted information about Ashwagandha in a separate message so this is a

"how come" sort of addition.



From and Ayurvedic view, when a child or adult experiences hypersensitivity

to sound, light,

emotion, and shows increased anxiety, phobias, poor concentration and

panic/anxiety symptoms it usually reflects Vata imbalance.



Correcting this on an herbal/nutritional/ lifestyle level should include

increasing tenderness, love and acceptance, regular routine, warmth/

nourishing freshly cooked foods with sufficient spices such as fennel,

cumin, cinnamon, nutmeg, honey, and oils to support nerve function and

digestion and to decrease the excess dryness and airiness.



Tonic herbs such

as ashwagandha (Withania somnifera), marshmallow root, sesame and lotus

root, nuts, dates and other such sweet and nourishing substances will help

to decrease the excess Vata and improve nerve function.  Gotu Kola (Centella

asiatica) can also help with concentration and calm...but is more cooling so

might not be a primary choice.  The tonic jelly Chyavanprash taken on a

daily basis would also be a consideration.  It tastes good so children and

adults will generally use it, and it contains over 40 herbs in a complex

formula used for thousands of years to restore balance of mind and body.

There are, of course, many other such nourishing herbs; I am simply giving

some of my preferences here.



In any case, the point is to surround this child with love and acceptance as

well as to gently maintain a very regular schedule.....in addition to

whatever might help medically or in therapy.



My two cents...the total is building!



Aliceann



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Alice Ann

Can I forward this info to the mother who is savvy about meds but not as much 

about herbs?

thanks in advance



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

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Subject: Re: [Herb] Vata Disturbances and Herbs -- Anxiety

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Sure.  Anything from any view that will help....

AA



----- Original Message -----

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Herb] Vata Disturbances and Herbs -- Anxiety





Alice Ann

Can I forward this info to the mother who is savvy about meds but not as

much

about herbs?

thanks in advance







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From kalamarjie@hotmail.com Mon Apr 22 01:59:16 2002

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Subject: [Herb] Re Panic & anxiety attacks

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I am a member of this same choir - but am still suffering (10 years now) to 

the point that it basically controls (ie limits) my activities severely - am 

looking for help.  I have my own theories that involve thyroid and some 

allergies but the doc does not concur. I'm certain that menopause was 

playing a large part because there has been some improvement over the years. 

  I drink chamomile and peppermint tea, sometimes ginger tea when the nausea 

is unbearable, but have been using xanax for lack of finding anything else 

the helps. I also had sessions with a behavioral therapist that specialized 

in treating panic disorder and did learn some good techniques from him such 

as deep breathing which does help but does not stop the attacks. Would 

really like not to have to use the xanax - would appreciate any herbal 

suggestions from those who have had success in treating their own or others 

attacks.

Thanks,

Marjie







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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re:  Dosing and Ashwagandha

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I'd be inclined to start with simmering a cup of whole milk (assuming she

tolerates dairy....organic is best) with 1/4 tsp ashwagandha root powder, a

little cinnamon for flavor and digestion and ask her to drink it (about 1/2

cup) warm at night before bed.  If she is willing to do this, then a month

of nightly use should result in her seeming more centered, less sensitive

and with decreased phobic responses.  It will make it a little easier for

her to tolerate stress and to explore this with someone who can help

her....whether counselor, parent, grandparent or wisewoman/mentor.



If she doesn't like the taste, I would consider adding Ovaltine...malt

flavor usually goes over well.  If she tolerates this....e.g. agrees to

drink it and doesn't raise such a ruckus it's counterproductive....then the

amount could be increased by 2 oz in a week and a full cup after 3 weeks or

so.  If milk is not tolerated for some reason, then rice milk is acceptable

as a substitute....but I would not use soy due to potential allergic and

hormone effects.



If the ashwagandha is not desired for this youngster, then try the milk

tonic recipe of simmering 2 cups whole milk with 12 blanched and skinned

almonds and about 4 whole dates (pitted or not).  You can add a little

marshmallow root (about a three finger pinch), cinnamon, and a hint (like

once over the grater surface...or less than 1/8 tsp) of nutmeg). Strain and

offer 4 oz warm as with the ashwagandha....about 1/2 hour before bedtime.

To nourish nerves, two teaspoons of ghee can be added to the milk as it

simmers.



Ghee is a pleasure to make and is one of the best nerve tonics and digestive

aids in Ayurvedic practice.  Simmer one pound of unsalted butter (organic if

possible) over low heat in a heavy pan (no aluminum etc) for about 20

minutes...watching it most of the time.  As the solids separate a foam will

form at the top....don't skim it off....as it simmers the butter will turn a

deep golden yellow and the froth will form particles that sink to the bottom

with the rest of the solids.  It begins to smell (to most people) like

popcorn.  Take it off the heat and cool for a few minutes then strain

through a fine sieve into a glass container.  I store mine in the

refrigerator, but it doesn't have to be if it is cooked properly as it will

not mold or spoil.  You can use it for cooking as well as for medicinal

puposes..chicken breast sauteeed in ghee and garlic is just amazing stuff!



A warm but not hot bath with almond oil and lavender EO (a few drops) is

soothing and helps ensure a quieter night.  A foot massage with the same oil

and a little lavender or similarly calming EO...just a drop or two....will

do nice things for quieting jangled nerves.  Perhaps she and her mom could

swap off foot massages so it doesn't seem so weird to her?  Depends on

personality and culture too.  If there is sweetgrass available and it is

permitted in the home, she might want to learn to weave a sweetgrass basket

to put special tokens in that she finds to keep near her bed.....



Blessings and peace,

Aliceann

----- Original Message -----

From: HerbalSW@aol.com



Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: celexa and st john's wort





so what could be a dosage for a small framed 8 year old who is VERY

sensitive

to any meds





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Subject: [Herb] ***Re Panic & anxiety attacks

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  Not herbal but one of the biggest causes of panic that I have found is

problems with your blood sugar. I had this and never knew it. I always

thought it was my hormones and then drugged myself with alchohol for

years. Also, aspartame is a big cause of blood sugar problems and I also

read that it chelates so if you have any metal fillings in your mouth,

aspartame or not, these can be causative.

  Many doctors do not know how to test and give you the three hour

glucose test and this is not enough. It must be five or six hour test. 

  If you want to know what "cured" me, email me with stars in the

subject.

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Subject: Re: [Herb] ***Re Panic & anxiety attacks

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On Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:49:50 -0500 Debbie <lullwater@airmail.net> writes:

>   Not herbal but one of the biggest causes of panic that I have found 

> is

> problems with your blood sugar.



Marcia: Do list people have suggestions on managing sugar ( avoid going

too low or avoid going too high?)   



Thanks,

Marcia

---



 



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From Elfreem@aol.com Mon Apr 22 16:09:45 2002

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Perhaps that's why you have a parent-teacher association (PTA) at

each school. This sort of behavior (from a teacher) should never be

tolerated and should be brought to the attention of other parents

through the PTA ..and the school itself again with the potential

collaboration of other parents. Parents should not be intimidated by the 

system, but instead should know how to use the system to their 

advantage and have their voice heard.



Elliot Freeman RPh





<<<Hope this isn't too far off the list subject....My 6 year old grandson 

woke

up and went to the bathroom to urinate 13 times during one night.  After

having a doc clear him for illness I went to the school, stood inside the

front door and listened to his teacher down the hall screech, scream and

belittle students for about 1/2 hour.  (No one ever made the honor role in

the class, either.)  When I asked principal how that could happen I got a

"wonderful teacher" reply.  Since they wouldn't do anything about her, I

took him out of the school.  His nighttime bathroom visits stopped

immediately.   Problem is, he didn't know he was being mistreated and had

never complained about her or school.  It was just a hunch.

>>>





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On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 09:09:45AM -0400, Elfreem@aol.com wrote:

> Perhaps that's why you have a parent-teacher association (PTA) at

> each school.



We've had problems in the past that the "authorities" were either 

unable or unwilling to address, the most troublesome with an elementary 

school principal who was of the opinion that he and certain of his 

staff knew more about kids and were better for kids than their parents. 

Among other things, he would have lunch with those kids whose parents 

were non-conformist, alone in his office, and grill them about their 

home lives, looking for any excuse to send socialist services to the 

home. The local caseworker was a do-gooder who was of like mind, and 

between them they disrupted many otherwise happy homes.



We alerted the other parents, etc., as did many other parents in our 

rural community, to no avail, but when 20 or more kids didn't show up 

for the next school year, all being homeschooled, the school board 

finally took notice, and ousted the man.



The following year, we returned our kid to the school, and within two 

months we were back down there to talk to the new principal about one 

of her teacher's behavior, and the new principal was very responsive.



> Parents should not be intimidated by the 

> system, but instead should know how to use the system to their 

> advantage and have their voice heard.



Agreed, with the qualification that the kid should come to no harm as a 

result of a parent's fight with the system. First care for your own, 

then care for the community.



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----

PGP/GPG Public Key: asackett-pubkey@artsackett.com (autoresponder)



Calvin:	"I wonder where we go when we die."

Hobbes:	"Pittsburgh?"

Calvin:	"You mean if we're good or if we're bad?"

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From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

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School can be a constant nightmare for children.

  One thing that was very helpful for my children was a meditation/

visualization of a journey through a field, down steps (what do they

look and feel like for each step), into a boat and they went to visit a

special friend.  This has a lot of imagery going to visit and come back

and it is important to guide the child gently so the imagery is their

own and yet positive.  I used phrases like "warm sun" "bright flowers"

"fish of many colors" "warm sand".  The special friend may be anything

or anyone the child or teen or adult wishes.

  This method has also worked well with bedwetting as the child asks the

special friend to wake him up at night.

  In the real world I have given my children a small jar with cotton

soaked with lavender eo to sniff when they are stressed and this has had

good results.

Roxanne



Roxanne J. Brown

Elemental Clay

http://www.cloudnet.com/~elemclay/

"One does not learn by speaking"



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Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: [Herb]6 year old grandson

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Yoga is phenomenal for kids.



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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Subject: [Herb] pulmonary fibrosis

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I usually lurk, but need some help.  My aunt (79) has had breast cancer (2 

yrs ago), lost one breast and now is fine regarding the cancer.  However she 

was just diagnosed with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis (lung scarring).  She 

would not even be a candidate for lung transplant.



Is anyone familiar with this?  Is there anything herbal that could help her?  

Thank you.



BonnieB

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From TheHealer@msn.com.au Sat Apr 27 10:30:40 2002

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From: "Michael Joubert" <TheHealer@msn.com.au>

To: <Herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re:[Herb] pulmonary fibrosis

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Hi Bonnie,



a safe herb to help with breathing (oxygenation) would be 'Tian Qi' tablets

(Panax Notoginseng) .

Suggest purchase from reputable Traditional Chinese Herbalist (for best

quality).

Normally 2 tabs 3 times a day.

(although considered very safe, check with G.P. if on Warfarin or other

anti-coagulant)



Not a cure, but this herb will help with a persons energy and hence quality

of life...

Many of my patient are happy with it, and not too expensive (at least in

Australia..)



Regards Michael Joubert.

(TCM Practitioner, Melbourne, Australia)







>was just diagnosed with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis (lung scarring).  She

>would not even be a candidate for lung transplant.

>

>Is anyone familiar with this?  Is there anything herbal that could help

her?

>Thank you.

>

>BonnieB



_______________________________________________

Herb mailing list

Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/herb



From BonnieBar@aol.com Sat Apr 27 20:57:12 2002

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Subject: [Herb] pulmonary fibrosis

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Thank you for your info.  My concern with this is how to work with a lung 

specialist that likely doesn't know much about 'Tian Qi' tablets (Panax 

Notoginseng) or chinese herbs.  If any conflicts occur with meds etc.??? Any 

suggestions on how we can incorporate both worlds effectively?



BonnieB



In a message dated 4/27/2002 12:02:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

herb-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes:



<< 

 From: "Michael Joubert" <TheHealer@msn.com.au>

 To: <Herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

 Subject: Re:[Herb] pulmonary fibrosis

 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 17:30:40 +1000

 Reply-To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

 

 

 

 Hi Bonnie,

 

 a safe herb to help with breathing (oxygenation) would be 'Tian Qi' tablets

 (Panax Notoginseng) .

 Suggest purchase from reputable Traditional Chinese Herbalist (for best

 quality).

 Normally 2 tabs 3 times a day.

 (although considered very safe, check with G.P. if on Warfarin or other

 anti-coagulant)

 

 Not a cure, but this herb will help with a persons energy and hence quality

 of life...

 Many of my patient are happy with it, and not too expensive (at least in

 Australia..)

 

 Regards Michael Joubert.

 (TCM Practitioner, Melbourne, Australia)

  >>

_______________________________________________

Herb mailing list

Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

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From HerbalSW@aol.com Fri Apr 26 16:42:10 2002

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I am really frustrated.  I have been making fresh rose water (following an 

old fashioned recipe of grain alcohol, witch hazel and filtered water) and 

lavender candles.

I followed the directions for both recipes and neither one smells right.  I 

mean rather I am questioning my expectation of natural scent versus the 

commercial scents I have found in store for most of my life.  

I know these are two separate mediums and each has their own issues of scent 

and process.  However, I have struggles with both of these this morning and 

am frustrated.  Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Catherine



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com

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Which herbs do you recommend for fluid in 6 year old ears?  This has been an

on and off problem for almost a year .  Child now has chicken pox, too.

Thank you.

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From jclarke1@mn.rr.com Sat Apr 27 20:14:38 2002

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From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1@mn.rr.com>

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Subject: RE: [Herb] fluid in ears/chicken pox

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A garlic/mullein ear oil would be helpful for fluid buildup/infection.

Wholistically, I'd suggest eliminating all dairy from the child's diet, look

into what other food sensitivities might be contributing to the excess

fluid, and also look into regular chiropractic adjustments to help

facilitate proper alignment, which will aid in drainage.



Kerry (just noticed you're a chiropracter, so I guess that last suggestion

is probably redundent)









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From redden@viriditasherbalproducts.com Mon Apr 29 21:37:05 2002

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Subject: [Herb] Vol I #51

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From: "John Redden Viriditas" <redden@viriditasherbalproducts.com>

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Vol I # 53

Date: April 28, 2002 5:01 PM



Fluid / pox: I would recommend Hyssop and Cleavers tea with a drop of Poke

tincture.

Increase the Poke upto 2mL per dose gradually over a week. You know the diet

etc.

Osha or Goldenseal may reduce the infection to a tolerable level.



Pulmonary fibrosis: I would add Ling zhi (Ganoderma lucidum) to the Tian qi

as it

helps with oxygenating blood and reducing the stress on the body.

From a Western point I would use Mullein ,Coltsfoot, Liquorice, Elecampane,

Lobelia and Anise seed.

This would relax the tissues, liquefy mucus,reduce inflammation and reduce

infection. Decoct and

add Anise to infuse at end and add lots of honey. Also you may use tinctures

and add enough

honey to make a syrup . Take syrup neat or in hot water.







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