From cyli.visi.com Tue Oct 01 04:13:41 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] So yesterday, I made a flu thingy.

From: "Cyli" <cyli.visi.com>

Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:13:41 -0500



On 30 Sep 2002 at 17:02, Henriette Kress wrote:

(snipped)

> 

> I think raw garlic has too rabid a taste on its own, which is why the honey and

> lemon juice. 

> Cooked garlic, yum! Honeypickled garlic, yowza! Raw garlic, no thanks.



Honey pickled garlic?  How does one do that?  I have a honey garlic 

oriental seasoning bottle (I add lots more honey).  Just mix and put 

in the 'frig?



From sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de Wed Oct 02 01:28:44 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] So yesterday, I made a flu thingy.

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:28:44 +0200



Honeypickled garlic, yowza!

-----------------

Oooouuu, that does sound interesting.  Pray tell :)  Is there a recipe?



Sorcy, licking chops (hi, I'm the new kid on the block, by the way.... spent

the last few days reading up on the archives and very much liked what I saw

so far, thanks for having me :)



From sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de Wed Oct 02 01:30:28 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] So yesterday, I made a flu thingy.

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:30:28 +0200



> Sounds alot like my favorite flu thingy,

-----------

mine too <lol>.  Well Doc Schulze's recipe, actually, but works like a

charm, although, admittedly, the honey/lemon option sounds MUCH better

tasting :)



Below the ingredients (called Super Tonic), the whole batch is 'tinctured'

in organic apple cider vinegar.  The hard matter, after straining, tastes

pretty good as a topping for salads or baked potatoes:



1 Part fresh chopped White Onions (or the hottest onions available)

1 Part fresh chopped Garlic Cloves

1 Part fresh grated Ginger Root

1 Part fresh grated Horseradish Root

1 Part fresh chopped Cayenne Peppers (or the hottest Peppers available



Didn't know if it was okay to send this, can mail the whole profile if

wanted.  Otherwise I'm going to sit back for a little while and just

observer until I get a hang of the rules and such.  This might be old news

for most of you.



Green Blessings,

Sorcy



From sdkueff.mindspring.com Tue Oct 01 15:19:02 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Garlic Oil

From: "Susan D. Kueffer" <sdkueff.mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 05:19:02 -0700



Henriette,



At 04:58 PM 9/30/2002 +0300, you wrote:

> > My son and I made some garlic olive oil with delicious fresh garlic- zowie!

>

>Strong, eh?



Yes, it's strong, but it doesn't bite the tongue when lemon juice is 

added.  But then, as my dad used to say, "Matters of taste aren't 

debatable." >;)



Incidentally, I forgot to delete the rest of the message to which I was 

responding in my last post.  Many apologies, Henriette.  I'll try to be 

more careful in the future.



Susan



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue Oct 01 16:25:59 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Alcoholic tinctures for animals

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 09:25:59 -0400



Several years ago, I used alcoholic tinctures to treat my ferret, who

had a tumor on her adrenals causing hyperexcretion of hormones (the

poor thing was almost entirely bald when I started).  Using 2-3 drops a

couple times a day for years proved palliative (she grew back almost all of 

her hair, put weight back on, and her energy & zest for life

definitely increased), but not curative.  I never saw any indication

that the alcohol was affecting her adversely.



While I have no idea how different animals mught be affected by the

alcohol in tinctures, I suspect that, just like in humans, it doesn't

pose as much of a problem as one might think.



Mary Wulff & Greg Tilford, who wrote Herbs for Pets (which, by the way,

is SUCH a good book that everybody should have it, even if they don't

have animals) also have a company called the Animals Apawthecary, which

makes liquid extracts for animals.  They use a low alcohol & glycerine

base.



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue Oct 01 16:52:36 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Kava Kava

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 09:52:36 -0400



Though I try to use mostly regional herbs I can gather myself, I LOVE

Kava Kava, and use it for a wide range of things (an infused oil is

incredible for massage, and diluted with glycerine and applied

topically I've seen it resolve several yeast infections & cases of

vaginitis).



As are most of us, I am rather flabbergasted by the reports of

hepatotoxicity, and I have to believe that there are other factors at

play, whether they arise from interactions or the manufacturing of the

kava (I've told people who asked to avoid standardized Kava products).

I have a case by case report of the initial European dilemma, which

shows that several of the cases are insipid at best, but there are some

that show no clear explanation, and, skeptiscism aside, people losing

their livers is nothing to take lightly.



I asked a guy named John Fowler, who runs an organic Kava farm in

Hawaii called Nuka Hiva Trading Company and has been growing and using

Kava for years what he thought about it and all he could say was that

nobody he knew in the South Pacific was losing their livers, and they

drink WAAAY more Kava than we do here.



Nuka Hiva Trading Company is a great source for Kava, by the way.  John

grows several varieties you can order by name (they're fun names too,

like Kumakua & Awa Mokihana), and will ship freshly dug roots if you

want to extract them fresh or masticate your Kava the traditional way..

an arduous experience, but wow... nice.



Perhaps, though most of us would love to see a world where herbal

remedies were recongnized and valued, good things will come of this...

maybe Centrum will take Kava out of their vitamins, and nutracuetical

companies will stop turning Pacific cultures into a commodity.  Maybe

people will stop asking me "if I just take two or three of these a day,

I'll be calm, right?"



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Tue Oct 01 19:55:41 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Kava Kava

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:55:41 +0300



"jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com> wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> Though I try to use mostly regional herbs I can gather myself, I LOVE

> Kava Kava, and use it for a wide range of things (an infused oil is

> incredible for massage, and diluted with glycerine and applied

> topically I've seen it resolve several yeast infections & cases of

> vaginitis).



Very interesting. Perhaps I'll use the dried roots I have lying around for that,

then - they're a few years old, and I've made tincture from fresh roots only

(organically grown, from Hawaii).



> As are most of us, I am rather flabbergasted by the reports of

> hepatotoxicity, and I have to believe that there are other factors at

> play, whether they arise from interactions or the manufacturing of the



Agreed. Most of the adverse effects came from concentrated kavalactones. 

70 % kavalactones? That's not a kava extract, that's a pharmaceutical product,

and with concentrates you _always_ have to be careful - as, for instance, with

essential oils, or licorice concentrates.



> I have a case by case report of the initial European dilemma, which

> shows that several of the cases are insipid at best, but there are some

> that show no clear explanation, and, skeptiscism aside, people losing

> their livers is nothing to take lightly.



Again agreed. There haven't been all that many details from the European cases,

or if there have, I haven't seen them. I see the kava scare as yet another way

to diss a popular herb, a way to get laypeople to believe that herbs in general

are dangerous. The responses from diverse governments have been waaay out of

proportion, especially when you take the prolonged lack of detailed information

about these cases into account.



> Nuka Hiva Trading Company is a great source for Kava, by the way.  John

> grows several varieties you can order by name (they're fun names too,

> like Kumakua & Awa Mokihana), and will ship freshly dug roots if you

> want to extract them fresh or masticate your Kava the traditional way..

> an arduous experience, but wow... nice.



... and freshly dug is the best best root for tinctures. Do a 1:2 95 % and

you'll only need 1-3 drops at a time. Anything more is a waste of good herb; and

if you have a kava tincture that states more than that it's not very good kava

tincture.



Note, even with drop doses I've seen a few scaly skin patches on one person with

recently acquired Hep C.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From NEHrbSup.aol.com Tue Oct 01 21:07:50 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Kava Kava

From: NEHrbSup.aol.com

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:07:50 EDT



> As are most of us, I am rather flabbergasted by the reports of

> hepatotoxicity, and I have to believe that there are other factors at

> play, whether they arise from interactions or the manufacturing of the



Agreed. Most of the adverse effects came from concentrated kavalactones. 

70 % kavalactones? That's not a kava extract, that's a pharmaceutical 

product,

and with concentrates you _always_ have to be careful - as, for instance, 

with

essential oils, or licorice concentrates.



> I have a case by case report of the initial European dilemma, which

> shows that several of the cases are insipid at best, but there are some

> that show no clear explanation, and, skeptiscism aside, people losing

> their livers is nothing to take lightly



Henriette et al,



I DID get my hands on some of the data from the European "study" (so called) 

when it first started to be raised a problem and what I found was that there 

were two or three major elements which made me understand clearly that the 

work was directed at both scaring the public and spreading misinformation in 

a manner that would allow it to "grow feet and walk on its own" for a long 

time - as it is by virtue of this discussion.



First was that the "tincture" was actually an acetone extract of Piper 

mythisticum (kava kava) that extracted more of the single constituent kavain 

than the lactones and other plant constituents that would have perhaps 

protected the liver from damage.

Second was that the dosing was, as I recollect, extremely high and gave me 

one of those "WHaaaaat??" knee jerk reactions and,

Third was the fact that the test subjects who suffered ill effects and died 

were, to a person, individuals who already had livers that were extremely 

stressed and compromised by conventional drugs etc.  There was no attempt to 

separate out these individuals for analysis nor was there any mention made 

that the chemical extraction process that was used could well have subjected 

the liver of the participants to direct exposure to acetone which would have 

done the very same thing to these people.  



Those facts notwithstanding, the "study" was reported on but not made 

available for review by the herbal or unbiased scientific community - and 

then picked up as "gospel" by the balance of the European community and now 

even the US FDA.   I went looking today and could not find the study myself 

so I will have to glean through old saved hard copy of stuff that I have to 

see if I can find it to share with the list.



I continue to make and sell kava tinctures and even have a number of Hep C 

clients that are using it to get better grounded and relaxed - and guess what 

- their livers are continually IMPROVING on the protocol I have for Hep (kava 

is not part of that)- one is even off the transplant list after only a year 

on the protocol - but I guess since I don't have a double blind placebo 

controlled government oversighted 3 million dollar "study" to back up my 

"anecdotal" witch doctor experiences, it doesn't count.



my penny's worth.

peter 



Peter Byram, CNC, Herbalist

New England Herbal 

299 Jagger Lane

Hebron, Connecticut 06248

860-228-9199  -  Fax 860-228-9399



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue Oct 01 23:26:54 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Kava Kava

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:26:54 -0400



For those who've asked, here's an email for John Fowler from Nuka Hiva

Trading Company: kava.tribalsite.com



Their website is down, and has been that way for a while, but I just

ordered a pound of roots from him which arrived yesterday, and are

excellent, if the little bit I chewed is representative of the rest of

the bag (Kava roots are an excellent chew, in spite of the tough fibers

that run through them).  Dry, it goes for about $32/lb.  Whole Foods

out my way sells the dried c/s roots (who knows how old) for $52, which

I think is outrageous.  He usually sends me an email on the day they'll

ship out and I use Paypal to send the money, that way there's no long

stressful delay between payment and shipment - something I worried

about when placing my first "internet order".



>I won't go in detail but I don't recommend Nuka Hiva Trading for living

>plants. I haven't bought his other products, and they may be great.

>

>Hideka



I've ordered from him several times and haven't had a problem at all,

barring the occasion after 9/11 when my fresh roots were intercepted by

the Gov't and held up for two weeks... Pretty dried out when I got

them, but fortunately no mold.  Other than that, I've been delighted

dealing with him, though I haven't ordered any live plants, which I

imagine is a different beast entirely.



The proportions for the Kava/Glycerine compound for vaginitis/yeast

infections is 1 part Kava extract, 2 parts glycerine.  I initially

thought it up on my own, and had the woman mix the tincture with KY,

but later found the glycerine recipe in ELLINGWOOD'S THERAPEUTIST -

Volume 3, No. 3, March 15, 1909... it's on Michael Moore's site.

Reports are that it burns/tingles a bit initially (some were disturbed,

but one woman said it was among the better remedies she's tried), but

everyone who's used it wanted more to have on hand "just in case".



From violetmoon.mindspring.com Tue Oct 01 17:58:52 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Willow

From: "Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:58:52 -0500



Greetings,



I am new to the list.  My name is Erica Kroll.  For now I make medicines

for my family and am starting a small business.  I grow many plants in

my garden and wild craft from the farm that my family is care taking.

I've been enjoying what I've read tremendously and appreciate this

resource!



I have been wondering if the pain relieving constituents of willow bark

will extract in olive oil? 



Thanks for any comments.



Erica



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Tue Oct 01 19:52:57 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Willow

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:52:57 +0300



"Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> I have been wondering if the pain relieving constituents of willow bark

> will extract in olive oil? 



Yes, they will. As will balsam poplar buds ("balm of gilead buds") and

meadowsweet flower, bud, and leaf (and root, but that tastes ghastly) - and

queen of the prairie, Filipendula rubra, works like meadowsweet, Filipendula

ulmaria.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From violetmoon.mindspring.com Tue Oct 01 21:09:57 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Willow

From: "Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:09:57 -0500



>>> I have been wondering if the pain relieving constituents of willow 

> bark will extract in olive oil?



Yes, they will.<<



Thank you Henriette.  I'm curious why infused oil of willow bark is not

used in more rheumatism and muscle pain balms and the like.  Perhaps it

has more to do with other available plants/trees to use in the local

areas where many of those balms are made.  I have hundreds of big and

small willow trees in my area but none of the other plants and trees

that you mention.



Be well,

Erica



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Tue Oct 01 21:20:28 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Willow

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:20:28 +0300



"Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> Thank you Henriette.  I'm curious why infused oil of willow bark is not

> used in more rheumatism and muscle pain balms and the like.  Perhaps it

> has more to do with other available plants/trees to use in the local

> areas where many of those balms are made.  I have hundreds of big and

> small willow trees in my area but none of the other plants and trees

> that you mention.



Peeling barks is a chore, no matter what the tree.



Picking balm of gilead buds is not, as long as you have disposable gloves and

work clothes that can take the resin stains.



Picking meadowsweet flowers is a pleasure, especially if it's windy enough to

deter the horseflies.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From violetmoon.mindspring.com Tue Oct 01 22:04:21 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Willow

From: "Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:04:21 -0500



>>Peeling barks is a chore, no matter what the tree.<<



Ahhh, I see!  Thanks.



Erica



From sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de Wed Oct 02 01:50:50 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Willow

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:50:50 +0200



I'm curious why infused oil of willow bark is not

used in more rheumatism and muscle pain balms and the like.

------------

it isn't?  I always include it in mine, infused in olive oil since olive

itself has nice pain relieving properties....



hmm.......



Sorcywondering



From hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu Tue Oct 01 19:31:36 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] More kava contraversy

From: hkobayas <hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:31:36 -0500



I haven't seen anything new regarding hepatoxicity, but somebody from UC San 

Francisco reported that he did not find any difference between placebo and 

kava in the double blinded study he conducted. I haven't read the original 

article or located it, so I refrain any further comments.



<I asked a guy named John Fowler, who runs an organic Kava farm in Hawaii 

called Nuka Hiva Trading Company>



I have dealt with him/his company for my study on kava tissue culture, and it 

has been a little frustrating.



<Nuka Hiva Trading Company is a great source for Kava, by the way.  John

grows several varieties you can order by name (they're fun names too, like 

Kumakua & Awa Mokihana), and will ship freshly dug roots if you want to 

extract them fresh or masticate your Kava the traditional way.. an arduous 

experience, but wow... nice.>



I won't go in detail but I don't recommend Nuka Hiva Trading for living 

plants. I haven't bought his other products, and they may be great. If 

somebody has a question, he/she can send me a PM. I also don't recommend Aloha 

Seeds (more expensive, and probably re-selling plants from Nuka Hiva), and in 

fact, I am looking for a reliable source that has pathogen free kava plants.



Hideka



From Elfreem.aol.com Tue Oct 01 23:42:18 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: alcoholic tinctures

From: Elfreem.aol.com

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:42:18 EDT



<<Several years ago, I used alcoholic tinctures to treat my ferret, who

had a tumor on her adrenals causing hyperexcretion of hormones (the

poor thing was almost entirely bald when I started).  Using 2-3 drops a

couple times a day for years proved palliative (she grew back almost all of 

her hair, put weight back on, and her energy & zest for life

definitely increased), but not curative.  I never saw any indication

that the alcohol was affecting her adversely.

>>



Would you share with the group what was the tincture you used and 

at what strength? thanx



Elliot Freeman



From sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de Wed Oct 02 01:29:35 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] converting tincture mixes to teas or dry herbs

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:29:35 +0200



Although the formula seems to help his breathing, he seems  uncomfortable

and nauseated.

-------------

He might be 'drunk'.  I found that my cats do not tolerate tinctures at all

due to the alcohol, and considering bodyweight, half a dropper seems too

much (in my opinion).  I dose by drops (echinacea, mostly, for infections),

and mix with catmilk or a favorite food treat.  It also depends what kind of

cat... I have long haired breeds, which are so finicky they can't stomach

much of anything....



Otherwise, I see no reason not to prepare your formula as a strong decoction

and see if he'd take it mixed in something he can't resist.  Haven't used

Yerba Santa myself, but the other herbs are giving off their goodies in

water (not sure about the lobelia, which supposedly needs 1  third ACV) as

far as I know.



just my 2 cents...



Green Blessings,

Sorcy



From sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de Wed Oct 02 01:30:38 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Re: list rules (was: flu thingy)

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:30:38 +0200



> ( Honey and other sugar sources are off my diabetic list)

-------------

just checking before I step in something, is it okay to mention other

possibilities, not strictly 'herb', like for instance propolis tincture or

colloidial silver water (the latter causing quite some controversy on most

lists), or is it 'what grows' only?



thanks, Sorcy



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Wed Oct 02 07:56:42 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: list rules (was: flu thingy)

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:56:42 +0300



"Sorcy" <sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> just checking before I step in something, is it okay to mention other

> possibilities, not strictly 'herb', like for instance propolis tincture or

> colloidial silver water (the latter causing quite some controversy on most

> lists), or is it 'what grows' only?



http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/archives/herblist/rules.html#rules



Henriette, listowner.



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From macphee.net1plus.com Thu Oct 03 18:29:25 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: list rules (was: flu thingy)

From: "Joanie" <macphee.net1plus.com>

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:29:25 -0400



Well, I know this is completely OT, but as it has been brought up and in

very current USA news, please forgive this link to article and image of

politician turned blue from Colloidal Silver water.

 http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Central/10/02/candidate.blue.skin.ap/



Stephen Buhner's book on herbal anti-biotics is what  I refer people to....

and now I will show them this image, and assume he will not make it to be

the first blue Senator in the US.  Joanie



> > colloidial silver water (the latter causing quite some controversy on

most



> http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/archives/herblist/rules.html#rules



From kentr.twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 02 11:06:08 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re:cervical dyplasia -  natural treatments?

From: Rick Kent <kentr.twcny.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 01:06:08 -0700



Could you give us the formula again?  We tried getting goldenseal resin, but no luck . . .



Rick



K B wrote:



> Sorry to take so long to respond.  I have been busy and got waaaaaaay behind in my mail.

>

> I usually use pretty much equal parts by weight of powdered herbs.  You can powder small amounts in an "Osterizer" type blender, but the barks & roots are a pain so get then ground if you can.

>

> Melt the cocoa butter and stir the powdered herbs in until it is the consistancy of soft mashed potatoes.  Roll into suppository shapes about the thickness of a pencil and about an inch and a half long.

>

> Use one nightly for three days (maintenance)to up to two weeks (hit-it-hard- before a retest therapy) at a time as needed.

> I believe most abnormal tests are caused by viruses (and that they trigger most cancerous changes).

> HTH

> KB



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed Oct 02 18:56:08 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Wholesale carrier oils?

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:56:08 -0400



Does anyone know of a place that will sell bulk carrier oils at

wholesale prices with low/no minimum orders?  I'd like to get a gallon

of Almond Oil for a reasonable price, so that I can charge a reasonable

price for the massage oils I make (paying retail for anything makes me

queasy).



I've got a resellers account at Mountain Rose, but the minimum order is

more than I can muster for the time being.



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Wed Oct 02 19:10:52 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Wholesale carrier oils?

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:10:52 -0500



You might try Majestic Mountain Sage:



http://www.the-sage.com/



I don't know how the prices compare to other companies' wholesale prices,

but it seems pretty inexpensive to me.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



Does anyone know of a place that will sell bulk carrier oils at

wholesale prices with low/no minimum orders?  I'd like to get a gallon

of Almond Oil for a reasonable price, so that I can charge a reasonable

price for the massage oils I make (paying retail for anything makes me

queasy).



From soapdoc.squeaky-clean.com Wed Oct 02 22:07:36 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Wholesale carrier oils?

From: "Squeaky Clean...Naturally(tm)!" <soapdoc.squeaky-clean.com>

Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:07:36 -0400



Hi there!



You can find this for $16.00 a gallon here this week only! 

http://www.todieforsoap.com/servsupply.htm (nci) she often has GREAT 

specials on carrier oils/butters.



HTH,

Darlene



At 11:56 AM 10/2/2002 -0400, you wrote:



>Does anyone know of a place that will sell bulk carrier oils at

>wholesale prices with low/no minimum orders?  I'd like to get a gallon

>of Almond Oil for a reasonable price,



From soapdoc.squeaky-clean.com Wed Oct 02 22:06:03 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Ferula assa-foetida  Syn.  Ferula foetida

From: "Squeaky Clean...Naturally(tm)!" <soapdoc.squeaky-clean.com>

Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:06:03 -0400



>Hi,



I am sorry for the delay, but I wanted to thank everyone that gave me info 

on this plant! Not too sure if I even want to try it now that I read how 

"pungent" it is, but I appreciate all the info just the same!



Darlene



>Although this plant is native to high plains of Iran and Afghanistan, it is

>alo found in Turkestan, Afghanistan, and Iran. It also grows wild in central

>United States. Not sure if you looking to purchase it or grow it yourself 

>both

>are possible.



From mt_turtle.email.com Thu Oct 03 01:40:30 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: cervical dyplasia -  natural treatments?

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:40:30 +0900



YOU WROTE: Could you give us the formula again?  We tried getting goldenseal resin, but no luck . . .



I ADD:

The exact formula for the "suppositories " changes to meet the constitution needs of the individual but includes anti-viral, anti-neoplastic and anti-yeast type herbs in a cocoa butter base.  Some of my favorite and oft used ones include myrrh resin, Pau 'd Arco bark , goldenseal root (or one of it's substitutes - Oregon grape root, coptis or barberry root), calendula, red root, usnea.   not herbal but an effective ingredient - propolis.  Using anti neoplastics and anti virals internally can help also.  Some favorites are lemon balm, matake, and tumeric.  Mix these with support herbs like burdock and red clover (choose based on persons constitution and other conditions.  Read susan weed and donald yancy.

KB



From dblan.netusa1.net Thu Oct 03 02:18:18 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Japanese Hops

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan.netusa1.net>

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:18:18 -0500



Does Japanese hops "fruits" have the same medicinal properties as regular

hops?  Mine is "blooming" and I wondered if I can use them for relaxing

teas?

Dee

"The Gardenthyme Lady"

I am one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but

still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the

something I can do.

--Edward E. Hale



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Thu Oct 03 08:54:32 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Japanese Hops

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:54:32 +0300



"GardenThyme Lady" <dblan.netusa1.net> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> Does Japanese hops "fruits" have the same medicinal properties as regular

> hops?  Mine is "blooming" and I wondered if I can use them for relaxing

> teas?



Yes. And the American species

.

Note, you can use the leaf of all three, as well, even if it's not as strong as

the cones. 



And there's very few herbs as _bitter_ as those cones, or, more precisely, as

their lupulin. Lupulin is the yellow-green resin dots which end up on the bottom

of your jar of dried hops cones. 



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From dblan.netusa1.net Sat Oct 05 18:12:20 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Japanese Hops

From: "GardenThyme Lady" <dblan.netusa1.net>

Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:12:20 -0500



Cones, that's the word I was looking for.  Thank you for letting me know I

can use them.  If they are bitter, does that mean they are also good for

your liver?  Is it best to Use these in a tincture or decoction?

Thanks for the help.



Dee

"The Gardenthyme Lady"

I am one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but

still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the

something I can do.

--Edward E. Hale



Yes. And the American species

.

Note, you can use the leaf of all three, as well, even if it's not as strong

as

the cones.



And there's very few herbs as _bitter_ as those cones, or, more precisely,

as

their lupulin. Lupulin is the yellow-green resin dots which end up on the

bottom

of your jar of dried hops cones.



Cheers

Henriette



From tmueller.bluegrass.net Mon Oct 07 09:30:27 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Japanese Hops

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller.bluegrass.net>

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 02:30:27 -0400 (EDT)



"GardenThyme Lady" <dblan.netusa1.net> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> Does Japanese hops "fruits" have the same medicinal properties as regular

> hops?  Mine is "blooming" and I wondered if I can use them for relaxing

> teas?



: Yes. And the American species

: .

: Note, you can use the leaf of all three, as well, even if it's not as strong as

: the cones. 



: And there's very few herbs as _bitter_ as those cones, or, more precisely, as

: their lupulin. Lupulin is the yellow-green resin dots which end up on the bottom

: of your jar of dried hops cones. 



: Cheers

: Henriette



I had dried hops once from a health food store, I think it was from Frontier,

believe the medicinal value was minimal.  That was Humulus lupulus, not

Japanese.  Maybe it was too old?  There was only mild bitterness, nothing to

compare to devil's claw, cramp bark or wormwood (Artemisia absinthium).  I

didn't see any yellow-green resin dots.



From macphee.net1plus.com Mon Oct 07 15:27:54 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Japanese Hops

From: "Joanie" <macphee.net1plus.com>

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:27:54 -0400



the hops I used to back by the bale when I worked for the guy who supplied

New England stores before Frontier came along was intensely bitter...I would

get the resin dots (lupulin?) which I remember as being more orange yellow,

but this was nearly 30 years ago, all over me, too and would taste it

(related to marijuana, too, remember) to some extent (but did not mind it)

until I could wash it off .  Though I do not remember wormwood as being more

bitter when tasted in tea or food than hops, wormwood *was* more intensely

bitter and pervasive when handling...hops was rather pleasant to handle, but

just as intensely bitter to take in a tea.  I could live with hops resin on

my skin, I could not stand to leave wormwood on my skin at all as I could

taste it too intensely even then.



Henry Thoreau mentions the wooziness of the hops pickers in my town in at

least one of his books.  But a 'mild' bitterness and no knock you right out

effects with intake (or even feeling some effect with smelling it) sounds as

if the hops you got were picked when they were really too old.  Perhaps held

too long too in the healthfood store, too, but I bet they were gone by to

begin with.  I cannot imagine an outfit as big as Frontier having perfect

quality control.  Joanie



> I had dried hops once from a health food store, I think it was from

Frontier,

> believe the medicinal value was minimal.  That was Humulus lupulus, not

> Japanese.  Maybe it was too old?  There was only mild bitterness, nothing

to

> compare to devil's claw, cramp bark or wormwood (Artemisia absinthium).  I

> didn't see any yellow-green resin dots.



From plantpeople.triton.net Thu Oct 03 09:26:30 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] No Subject....

From: Joyce Wardwell <plantpeople.triton.net>

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 02:26:30 -0400



>Does anyone know of a place that will sell bulk carrier oils at

>wholesale prices with low/no minimum orders? 



Try Liberty natural 

email addy = libertynatural.com  

Believe refined almond oil sells somewhere in the vincity of 25.00/gallon.  Minimum order for wholsesalers was $50.00 last time I ordered.  Throw in a gal vegetable glycerin and a few eo's to play with and 50.00 comes pretty fast.

JoyceW



---------------------------

Every great Oak Tree, was once just a nut, that stood its ground



From sdkueff.mindspring.com Thu Oct 03 17:50:50 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Garlic Oil and the Dangers of Botulism

From: "Susan D. Kueffer" <sdkueff.mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:50:50 -0700



Hi herb listers,



At 04:58 PM 9/30/2002 +0300, you wrote:

> > My son and I made some garlic olive oil with delicious fresh garlic- zowie!



I make a tasty salad dressing by chopping lots of fresh garlic and adding 

it to the olive oil, then add fresh lemon juice to it.   Mmmmmm....good!



After reading an article once, about the dangers of botulism, as a result 

of not refrigerating my garlic oil, I always keep it in the fridge.  It's 

also helpful to add an acidifying agent (like lemon juice) to the mix, to 

prevent the growth of Clostridium (C.) botulinum.



If you want more information about this, click on this link: 

http://www.colostate.edu/Orgs/safefood/NEWSLTR/v2n4s08.html



Also, if you run a Google search, using the words "garlic oil botulism," 

you'll find a lot more information on the subject.



I'm curious to know if the people on this list refrigerate their garlic 

oil, or do you just add an acidifying agent, and leave it at room temperature?



Susan



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Thu Oct 03 18:41:09 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Garlic Oil and the Dangers of Botulism

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:41:09 -0400



> > > My son and I made some garlic olive oil with delicious fresh garlic-

zowie!

>

> After reading an article once, about the dangers of botulism, as a result

> of not refrigerating my garlic oil, I always keep it in the fridge.



Well I think we eat ours too fast for that to happen!

Its gone already- time to make more...



Michelle



From psilver.cix.compulink.co.uk Thu Oct 03 21:34:00 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Herbs for broken bones

From: psilver.cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:34 +0100 (BST)



My partner has broken several bones in a bicycle accident. Can anyone 

recommend herbs that might help the healing process please?  Thanks.



Pat S in Somerset, England



From sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de Fri Oct 04 01:39:03 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Herbs for broken bones

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:39:03 +0200



Can anyone

> recommend herbs that might help the healing process please?  Thanks.

-------------

Arnica, Comfrey, Calendula, Boneset.... on a first thought.

If infused, I prefer castor oil, for its deep penetration and pain relieving

properties.



Sorcy



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Fri Oct 04 09:45:48 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Herbs for broken bones

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:45:48 +0300



psilver.cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver) wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> My partner has broken several bones in a bicycle accident. Can anyone 

> recommend herbs that might help the healing process please?  Thanks.



Internally:

to speed healing: Calendula or Plantago, tea or tincture, your choice

for the pain: meadowsweet with California poppy, tea or tincture, your choice

for minerals: tea of nettles, red raspberry leaf, horsetail, Alchemilla, or

  green oat straw, or other mineral-rich plants.



Externally, as soon as you can reach it: 

for the swelling: SJW or Arnica oil or salve (no Arnica on broken skin!)

to speed healing: Calendula or Plantago oil or salve (or comfrey, if the skin is

  intact)

for the pain: meadowsweet or balm of gilead oil or salve.



And perhaps SJW tincture or tea, internally, even if I'm not sure that it

reduces swelling when taken internally.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri Oct 04 17:11:26 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Herbs for broken bones

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:11:26 -0400



>My partner has broken several bones in a bicycle accident. Can anyone 

>recommend herbs that might help the healing process please? Thanks.



I've treated LOTS of broken bones, from fractures to shatters to cracks

to chips, and almost always have incredible results.  There's probably

4 or 5 herbs I use, but the absolute most important among these is

Solomon's Seal root (1:2 fresh tincture), ETHICALLY WILDCRAFTED -

there's a good way to do this without removing the growing part of the

plant from the ground at all... check out this old post:

http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/herb/2002-August/000860.html



Solomon's Seal acts on the tendons & bones directly, and is

particularly good for joint injuries.  I learned about it from Matthew

Wood, and you can pretty much get the gist of it from his entry in "The

Book of Herbal Wisdom".  Then, if you start using it, you'll have so

many of your own successful experiences you'll never want to be without

it.



I also use Horsetail, especially if there's damaged cartilage, and

Mullien Root, which I believe properly alligns the bones so they heal

cleanly.  Comfrey is, of course, excellent, but you have to come to

your own comfort level regarding PAs, and whatever your opinion is, be

wary about who you give it to... no prior liver stress.  If there's any

nerve involvement, St John's wort oil should be applied externally, and

maybe the tincture internally as well.  If there is numbness in the

extremities from nerve damage, you can always try urtication - topical

fresh stinging nettles.  I've done this for someone, and the results

were great, though you might have a hard time talking someone into it.



My "base formula" for broken bones is 2 parts Solomon's Seal Root, 1

part horsetail & 1 part Mullein Root.  Sometimes I add Comfrey Root.



Solomon's Seal, again, is so important.  I certainly think it makes any

formula at least twice as effective.  The only place I know that sells

Solomon's Seal Tincture is Avena Botanicals: www.avenaherbs.com



From herbgatherer.hotmail.com Fri Oct 04 22:14:18 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Herbs for broken bones

From: "Pamela Quayle" <herbgatherer.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:14:18 -0400



> I've treated LOTS of broken bones, from fractures to shatters to cracks

> to chips, and almost always have incredible results.  There's probably

> 4 or 5 herbs I use, but the absolute most important among these is

> Solomon's Seal root (1:2 fresh tincture), ETHICALLY WILDCRAFTED -



Do you think that all Polyganatum work equally well?  I have a very tall

variety that may be a supersized P biflorum (our native) - or it may be

something that came from an earlier gardener on this land.  Strangely it

chose to begin growing amongst a Opuntia humoidosa in one of the hottest,

dryest and sunniest places here and has thrived.  The Opuntia developed some

fungal problems and had to be removed so I will be moving the Solomon Seal

to a place I think is more appropriate for it (and hope it continues to

thrive).  I have started new plants from its seeds and they are equally as

large - the rhizomes are more than an inch thick and several inches long.

I'd like to make some tincture when I move it, but seeking opinions on

whether they are interchangeable.  Today as the rain approaches I go to

scatter its fresh seeds.



Pamela



From tassbaby.senet.com.au Fri Oct 04 02:18:35 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Garlic oil and honey turned green

From: Kirsty Tassell <tassbaby.senet.com.au>

Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:48:35 +0930



2 nights ago I chopped a whole pile of garlic and packed it in two

separate jars - one with olive oil and one with honey. Looking at them

this morning, in both jars, some of the garlic is starting to turn green

- does anyone know what this is ?? Is it bad??Should I chuck them out

and start again? Is there anything I should have done differently ??(all

I did was peel and chop the garlic, put them in a jar and pour warm

honey/olive oil over them - let cool then put a lid on)



Cheers



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Fri Oct 04 09:58:53 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Garlic oil and honey turned green

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:58:53 +0300



Kirsty Tassell <tassbaby.senet.com.au> wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> 2 nights ago I chopped a whole pile of garlic and packed it in two

> separate jars - one with olive oil and one with honey. 



Did you boil the garlic in vinegar before you put it into the oil? If you didn't

you have a pretty good growing ground for botulism. Yes, it happens very rarely,

but when it happens it's very bad - you might end up hospitalized for half a

year, or you might end up dead. 



Given that botulism is avoidable just by not putting garlic into oil, and given

that the result of possible poisoning is ghastly, I wouldn't use unvinegared

garlic oil. Unless it's stored in the freezer, of course.



More about Clostridium botulinum: it's in the ground all over the world. Garlic

grows in the ground. Dug-up garlic probably has some Cl. botulinum spores. It's

an anaerobe, which means it doesn't grow in air... but oil contains no oxygen,

so if you put your garlic in oil the Cl. botulinum spores will grow. In itself

the bacterium isn't toxic, but its byproducts are very much toxic; so for safe

food you need to stop it from growing.



Neither Clostridium botulinum nor its toxin have taste or smell.



More here:

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap2.html

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/botulism_g.htm (these guys say garlic

oil is an unusual cause of botulism ... somewhere else I've read that garlic oil

accounts about half of the food-related botulism cases in the US. Shrug.)



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Fri Oct 04 19:13:19 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Garlic oil and honey turned green

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:13:19 -0500



Would adding something like grapefruit seed extract to garlic oil be

sufficient, either through its antibacterial action or its acidity, to

discourage botulism growth?



Kerry



-----Original Message-----

From: herb-admin.lists.ibiblio.org

[mailto:herb-admin.lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Henriette Kress

Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 1:59 AM

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Garlic oil and honey turned green



Kirsty Tassell <tassbaby.senet.com.au> wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> 2 nights ago I chopped a whole pile of garlic and packed it in two

> separate jars - one with olive oil and one with honey.



Did you boil the garlic in vinegar before you put it into the oil? If you

didn't

you have a pretty good growing ground for botulism. Yes, it happens very

rarely,

but when it happens it's very bad - you might end up hospitalized for half a

year, or you might end up dead.



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Fri Oct 04 19:43:20 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Garlic oil and honey turned green

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:43:20 -0500



Another question - wouldn't boiling the garlic in vinegar first render its

antimicrobial properties useless?



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



Did you boil the garlic in vinegar before you put it into the oil? If you

didn't

you have a pretty good growing ground for botulism. Yes, it happens very

rarely,

but when it happens it's very bad - you might end up hospitalized for half a

year, or you might end up dead.



From mwherbs.dshome.net Fri Oct 04 08:42:34 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re:  Garlic oil and honey turned green

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs.dshome.net>

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:42:34 -0700



green as in sprouting or green as in mold? I have had poorly 

preserved garlic get moldy.

Sharon in Tucson



From violetmoon.mindspring.com Fri Oct 04 17:54:10 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Extracting

From: "Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:54:10 -0500



Good morning,



Can anyone recommend books specifically about what constituents extract

into certain menstrums, what the solubility is and what the best methods

are for each specific one?



Thanks,

Erica



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri Oct 04 18:02:46 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Extracting

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:02:46 -0400



>Can anyone recommend books specifically about what constituents extract

>into certain menstrums, what the solubility is and what the best methods 

>are for each specific one?



Richo Cech's Making Plant Medicine & James Green's Medicine Maker's

Handbook come to mind.



From violetmoon.mindspring.com Fri Oct 04 18:34:39 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Extracting

From: "Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:34:39 -0500



Thanks for responding Jim,



I have both of those books, but I'm finding some contradictory

information about what is soluble in what.  For instance Marshmallow

being a mucilage is supposedly only soluble in water.  However, it is in

a lot of salves and balms.  Perhaps I'm just missing something, but it

makes sense to me that it would be soluble in oil, but it doesn't say

that anywhere.



Be well,

Erica



From carlton.midrivers.com Fri Oct 04 21:32:48 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Extracting

From: "Aliceann or Scott" <carlton.midrivers.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:32:48 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)



Hello Erica,



In Ayurvedic practice I was taught to make a decoction of the herb first,

then add that to the salve/oil, then simmer over low heat until the water

has evaporated off.  This way the decocted material is available to the

oil/salve having been extracted in water first.  It works....takes patience

but works well.



Blessings,

Aliceann



-------Original Message-------



Subject: RE: [Herb] Extracting



I have both of those books, but I'm finding some contradictory

information about what is soluble in what. For instance Marshmallow

being a mucilage is supposedly only soluble in water. However, it is in

a lot of salves and balms. Perhaps I'm just missing something, but it

makes sense to me that it would be soluble in oil, but it doesn't say

that anywhere.



Be well,

Erica



From violetmoon.mindspring.com Fri Oct 04 22:25:24 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Extracting

From: "Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:25:24 -0500



>>In Ayurvedic practice I was taught to make a decoction of the herb

first, then add that to the salve/oil, then simmer over low heat until

the water has evaporated off.<<



Hi Aliceann,



Thanks for responding....

Whenever I can't infuse herbs fresh, I prefer to use the Ayurvedic

method.  As I write I am doing this with calendula! For me it seems to

work better than just putting the herbs directly in the oil.  



My thoughts were to use the Ayurvedic method with dried marshmallow

roots if the fresh infusion didn't work.



Be well,

Erica  



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri Oct 04 18:56:12 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [Herb] Extracting

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:56:12 -0400



>I have both of those books, but I'm finding some contradictory

>information about what is soluble in what.  For instance Marshmallow

>being a mucilage is supposedly only soluble in water.  However, it is in

>a lot of salves and balms



I think contradictions are simply par for the course... I've made a

marshmallow tincture (which, theoretically, shouldn't work), and it

must have extracted the mucilage because the resulting tincture not

only wouldn't pass through a coffee filter, but it wouldn't pass

through a mesh teaball either, and the mucilage was clearly visable

(looked like mucous coughed up from a chest cold... nice example of the

doctrine of signatures).  What I did find, though, is that if I tried

to combine the marshmallow tincture with anything, the mucilage would

precipitate right out, which really looked distressing to the person I

gave the bottle to (my lovely wife... she deserves so much credit...).

So a marshmallow tincture will "work", but certainly isn't the best

preparation, looking at other available options... I haven't made a

tincture of Marshmallow since (or Slippery Elm), though I do tincture

fresh Plantain, Solomon's Seal & Comfrey Root.



As far as what it'll do in oil, make a small batch & see.  I use

Plantain in oils, and regardless as to whether the mucilage is

adequately extracted, it certainly works quite well.  The same applies

for Comfrey... there's much more to these plants than their isolated

physical components; the fixed laws of chemistry only extend so far.



From violetmoon.mindspring.com Fri Oct 04 19:46:10 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Extracting

From: "Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:46:10 -0500



>>As far as what it'll do in oil, make a small batch & see.  I use

Plantain in oils, and regardless as to whether the mucilage is

adequately extracted, it certainly works quite well.  The same applies

for Comfrey... there's much more to these plants than their isolated

physical components; the fixed laws of chemistry only extend so far.<<



I certainly agree with you here!  I love using comfrey and plantain (as

much as the deer loving eating them!)  I will definitely make trial

batch of marshmallow oil.  I just wish there was more specific info out

there...my right brain is yearning percentages and numbers to balance my

intuitive side!



Thanks!

Erica



From mwherbs.dshome.net Sat Oct 05 01:53:11 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [Herb] Extracting

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs.dshome.net>

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:53:11 -0700



  marshmallow when cooked becomes starch rather than mucopolysacrides. 

I think that tincturing works like cooking the mucilage becomes 

starchy.I don't know about oil it almost seems like an osmosis 

problem what would be pulled where, seems that a green plant would be 

more likely to give up something to oil. Found one poultice remedy 

with linseed oil and water.



In my old books can't find anything but water extraction in fact in 

Blumgarten- Materia Medica, Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1939 the 

definition of "mucilages -are gummy drugs dissolved in water."

I think it is emollient even as a starch- think of gumbo with boiled 

okra, certainly slimy.

Sharon in Tucson



From psilver.cix.compulink.co.uk Fri Oct 04 21:39:00 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: Herbs for broken bones

From: psilver.cix.compulink.co.uk (Pat Silver)

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:39 +0100 (BST)



Thanks for the recommendations. I'm dosing him with a mix of nettle, 

horsetail, Alchemilla and Plantago because that's what's growing well 

around here at the moment (I'm a great believer in using local herbs where 

possible). Topical application isn't practical at present but I've made a 

Calendula and Plantago oil for as soon as things settle down a bit.



Pat S



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri Oct 04 23:31:55 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: alcoholic tinctures & animals

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:31:55 -0400



><<Several years ago, I used alcoholic tinctures to treat my ferret> >>

>

>Would you share with the group what was the tincture you used and

>at what strength? thanx



The formula I used changed and mutated several times as her condition

changed, but mostly in proportions and less so as far as ingredients.

I tried to focus on alteratives and adrenal tonics, as well as "anti-

tumor" herbs (as described in Donald Yance's Herbs, Healing & Cancer)

and at one point the blend was made up of:



Burdock Root (all around restorative tonic)

Nettles (adrenal tonic)

Red Clover ("anti-tumor")

Siberian Ginseng (adaptogen/adrenal tonic)

Oatstraw/milky oats (adrenal tonic)

Agrimony (she was dribbling urine, $ "grim" is also believed to inhibit 

tumor growth, and I just really like agrimony...)

Mullein Root (dribbling urine again, plus its a good lymphatic cleanser)

Violet Leaf (antitumor)

1 drop of Poke Root per 1/2 ounce of tincture  (antitumor/alterative)



There's alot more to it than just the formula, which was made

specifically for her.  I don't think it could be simply duplicated for

any ferret with this condition.  I'd be delighted to elaborate off list

if you know of a poor critter with this problem.



Also, I just got a call from a woman whose cat has been using a blend

of I made up altertives (psuedo-hoxsey) for Feline Leukemia - again

regular tinctures with alcohol, who wanted to let me know that she has

cancelled her appointment to put the cat to sleep, and that she can't

believe he's still alive.  Again, evidently the alcohol in the

tinctures doesn't seem to negate their healthful benefits.



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Sat Oct 05 12:14:06 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Agrimony, was Re: alcoholic tinctures & animals

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:14:06 +0300



"jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com> wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> Agrimony (she was dribbling urine, $ "grim" is also believed to inhibit 

> tumor growth, and I just really like agrimony...)



Agrimony doesn't grow here, or it would if I'd put it in my garden, of course,

but we have loads of different Potentilla species all over the place, and

somebody I deem reliable (I forget who) said that these two can be used

interchangeably. So I use the leaf of diverse species of Potentilla. It's cool

for things like cramps (provided it's not a "chamomile" -type cramper), but it

also helps my clients with gut upset. 



Dunno, these days I mostly use teas.



Anyway, if you want to elaborate on, say, agrimony, feel free.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From mterry.snet.net Sun Oct 06 16:48:37 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Agrimony, was Re: alcoholic tinctures & animals

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 09:48:37 -0400



Henriette Kress wrote:



> Agrimony doesn't grow here, or it would if I'd put it in my garden, of course,

> but we have loads of different Potentilla species all over the place, and

> somebody I deem reliable (I forget who) said that these two can be used

> interchangeably. So I use the leaf of diverse species of Potentilla. It's cool

> for things like cramps (provided it's not a "chamomile" -type cramper), but it

> also helps my clients with gut upset.



Wow!  Including cinquefoil (P. reptans), then?  It's everywhere here.



May

--

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

---Albert Einstein



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed Oct 09 02:46:07 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Agrimony, was Re: alcoholic tinctures & animals

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 19:46:07 -0400



>Anyway, if you want to elaborate on, say, agrimony, feel free.

>

>Cheers

>Henriette



Well... first of all, I say uh-GRIH-muh-nee (like "Jiminy" cricket!) and not 

A-grih-MOE-nee... but that's just cause when I learned the name I 

mispronouced it, and when I learned how other people say it, I decided I 

liked my mispronunciation better.



It's a real gentle atringent, and I combine it with Mullein Root for 

incontinence, for which it works nicely.  Matthew Wood uses the tincture for 

pretty much the same indications as people use the flower essence, and I 

sometimes will throw it into a blend based on this assumption (usually if 

its appropriate for the condition, and someone comes in to see me but 

doesn't want to say why).



For a topical application for mild hemmorhoids, I've combined some Oak, 

Yarrow & Agrimony tincture with a bit of distilled Witch Hazel, an this 

combination can be applied to a cotton ball and tucked into place.  More 

severe cases do well with some Collinsonia added, both to the mixture & 

internally as well.  I was told though, that it can leave an embarrasing 

stain on the undies... GREEN?



For no good reason other than a similarity in flavor 

(bitter/sweet/astringent) I sometimes mix it with Eyebright for leaky eye 

allergies.  I also will combine it with other herbs (like Myrrh & a little 

lemon juice)for canker sores for people who'd rather put up with the sore 

than taste Goldenseal or Goldthread.



It blends beautifully with Burdock.



From mterry.snet.net Wed Oct 09 10:45:40 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Agrimony, was Re: alcoholic tinctures & animals

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 03:45:40 -0400



jim mcdonald wrote:



> I also will combine it with other herbs (like Myrrh & a little

> lemon juice)for canker sores for people who'd rather put up with the sore

> than taste Goldenseal or Goldthread.



How do you use Goldenseal and Goldthread for canker sores?



Thanks,

May

--

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created

them.  ---Albert Einstein



From drkelly.icdc.com Sat Oct 05 22:02:33 2002

To: "Herb List" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Anyone know of herbs to use for chronic phlebitis that won't interact with coumadin?

From: "Lynn Kelly, DC" <drkelly.icdc.com>

Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:02:33 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)



  

Anyone know of herbs to use for chronic phlebitis that won't interact with coumadin  LK



From sdkueff.mindspring.com Sun Oct 06 19:33:04 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Garlic Oil vs. Dangers of Botulism

From: "Susan D. Kueffer" <sdkueff.mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 09:33:04 -0700



Henriette,



At 09:58 AM 10/4/2002 +0300, you wrote:

>Did you boil the garlic in vinegar before you put it into the oil?



Are you saying that adding plenty of lemon juice to the garlic, then adding 

olive oil, and keeping it in the refrigerator, still wouldn't be safe 

enough?  I've always thought that lemon juice would provide enough acidity 

to prevent the growth of Clostridium botulinum.  Not so?



I've never tried boiling the garlic in vinegar, but it sounds like a good 

idea.  How long do you boil it, Henriette?   One question though...wouldn't 

you end up with a lot of garlic vinegar, and not much garlic in the oil 

itself?   Does it have to be plain vinegar, or can wine-vinegar be used?



Susan



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Sun Oct 06 19:52:26 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Garlic Oil vs. Dangers of Botulism

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:52:26 -0500



And again, wouldn't boiling it kill all of it's antimicrobial properties?

And would adding grapefruit seed extract be enough protection against

botulism?



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



I've never tried boiling the garlic in vinegar, but it sounds like a good

idea.  How long do you boil it, Henriette?   One question though...wouldn't

you end up with a lot of garlic vinegar, and not much garlic in the oil

itself?   Does it have to be plain vinegar, or can wine-vinegar be used?



Susan



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Sun Oct 06 20:30:14 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Garlic Oil vs. Dangers of Botulism

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 20:30:14 +0300



"Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> And again, wouldn't boiling it kill all of it's antimicrobial properties?



Are you making a garlic oil for its antimicrobial properties? It's a food.

Anyway, if you want garlic to retain antimicrobial zing in your cooking you

should chop it up and leave it for about half an hour. Then proceed. 

That way, the alliinase splits alliine into allicine and whatever. Allicine is

the main antimicrobial bit in garlic.



> And would adding grapefruit seed extract be enough protection against

> botulism?



Grapefruit seed extract works if and only if it's been "enhanced" with a

strongly antimicrobial preservative. Here's more:

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/archives/Best/2000-01/gse.html



So sure, go ahead and add it. I don't know if it works against anaerobes as well

as aerobes; but be aware that the end result is anything but natural.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Fri Oct 11 00:00:49 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Garlic Oil vs. Dangers of Botulism

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:00:49 +0100



Doesn't honey itself have possible botulism spores making it contra for

infants? I make garlic honey for my son every year, usually petle and

mortaring it before infusing for a few days and straining, should I not do

this? Can't believe such a traditional recipe could be so dangerous.

Namh



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Fri Oct 11 10:29:40 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Garlic Oil vs. Dangers of Botulism

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:29:40 +0300



"Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> Doesn't honey itself have possible botulism spores making it contra for

> infants? I make garlic honey for my son every year, usually petle and

> mortaring it before infusing for a few days and straining, should I not do

> this? Can't believe such a traditional recipe could be so dangerous.



Infants do not have stomach acid. Therefore, they can't kill botulism spores.

Therefore, honey is dangerous for kids under, say, 1 year. Older than that, no

trouble.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From teragram.silcom.com Fri Oct 11 17:14:35 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Garlic Oil vs. Dangers of Botulism

From: "Teragram" <teragram.silcom.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 07:14:35 -0700



<I>Infants do not have stomach acid.</I>



<blink>



Tell ya what, Henriette, let a infant spit up on your shirt and don't rinse

it off your clothing right away.  See how the fabric likes it.



Infants most certainly DO have stomach acid.  Their IMMUNE SYSTEM isn't

fully developed, however.  Other people besides infants can have problems

with botulism spores present in honey.  If memory serves the stomach has

little to do with the problem, but rather the intestines.



- T.



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Fri Oct 11 17:33:29 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Garlic Oil vs. Dangers of Botulism

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:33:29 -0500



Fabrics don't like infant spit-up not because the presence of stomach acids,

but because most infants are formula fed, and the iron in formula stains

things. Spit up from a breastfed baby isn't nearly as objectionable.



But you're right, infants DO have stomach acid. Look at all the babies who

suffer from reflux.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----

<I>Infants do not have stomach acid.</I>



<blink>



Tell ya what, Henriette, let a infant spit up on your shirt and don't rinse

it off your clothing right away.  See how the fabric likes it.



Infants most certainly DO have stomach acid.  Their IMMUNE SYSTEM isn't

fully developed, however.



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Fri Oct 11 08:04:48 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Garlic Oil vs. Dangers of Botulism

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:04:48 +0300



"Susan D. Kueffer" <sdkueff.mindspring.com> wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> >Did you boil the garlic in vinegar before you put it into the oil?

> 

> Are you saying that adding plenty of lemon juice to the garlic, then adding 

> olive oil, and keeping it in the refrigerator, still wouldn't be safe 

> enough?  I've always thought that lemon juice would provide enough acidity 

> to prevent the growth of Clostridium botulinum.  Not so?



I don't know how good lemon juice is.



> I've never tried boiling the garlic in vinegar, but it sounds like a good 

> idea.  How long do you boil it, Henriette?   One question though...wouldn't 

> you end up with a lot of garlic vinegar, and not much garlic in the oil 

> itself?   Does it have to be plain vinegar, or can wine-vinegar be used?



It should be boiled for quite long, but in fact I haven't done this as I don't

like the taste of vinegary garlic... my take is, you want (culinary) garlic oil,

you make it an hour or five before you use it, and store in the frigde. You

might even try to freeze it.



Yes, you'd end up with garlic vinegar, too. Actually plain vinegar would be

better as it's more acidic, but, you know - shrug.



External use is not a problem, except that garlic oil for earache makes the

problem worse for about 1 in 8 or so... I like my mullein oil better, that isn't

irritating to anybody.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From tassbaby.senet.com.au Mon Oct 07 08:51:13 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: Garlic gone green

From: Kirsty Tassell <tassbaby.senet.com.au>

Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 15:21:13 +0930



2 nights ago I chopped a whole pile of garlic and packed it in two

separate jars - one with olive oil and one with honey.



Did you boil the garlic in vinegar before you put it into the oil?green

as in sprouting or green as in mould? I have had poorly preserved garlic

get mouldy.

Sharon in Tucson



It doesn't look like mould green - its kind of a vibrant lime green

within the actual garlic, as opposed to on it, if that makes sense???



Did you boil the garlic in vinegar before you put it into the oil?

Henriette



No - for future reference - do you boil the whole garlic in vinegar and

then chop them?? Or chop them, then boil them? Would adding lemon juice

suffice??

Kirsty



From leppihalme.quartal.com Mon Oct 07 11:31:57 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Hops (was: RE: [Herb] Japanese Hops)

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme.quartal.com>

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 11:31:57 +0300



Thomas Mueller:

> I had dried hops once from a health food store, I think it 

> was from Frontier, believe the medicinal value was minimal.

> That was Humulus lupulus, not Japanese.  Maybe it was too old?

> There was only mild bitterness



I suggest you get your hops (Humulus lupulus) from a homebrew supply shop. They carry oxygen-barrier packaged hops in the form of either pellets or whole cones. Pellets have a slightly longer shelf life. A good homebrew shop _always_ keeps the packages in the fridge and the labels tell you which year's harvest it is. Smell the package. If it smells like hops, the package leaks and you shouldn't buy it. Go to another shop, a good one, that takes care of the stuff they sell. If last year's harvest is all you can find right now, use it quickly and get some fresh when this year's harvest arrives.



If you want hops for their lupulin content (*bitter*), which you probably do, ask for "bittering hops" and choose a variety with high alpha acid content. It's marked on the label as "AA%". Some US varieties that have a very high AA content are Chinook (typically 12-14 AA%), Columbus (13-16 AA%) and Nugget (12-14 AA%). In the UK, try something like Target or Northern Brewer.



Store your hops in air-tight containers in either the fridge or the freezer. I store mine always in the freezer.



Questions?



Miikkali



From eksommer.gator.net Mon Oct 07 21:30:09 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Garlic continued

From: "Ellie Sommer" <eksommer.gator.net>

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:30:09 -0400



I missed the beginning of the garlic thread, but I am curious about the

commercial preparations made for the ears, e.g. the garlic/mullein oil.

Does anyone know how this is preserved? Is it not a problem because the

garlic is strained out? But of course to preserve the anti-microbial

properties (i.e., by not using heat), then you'd have to infuse it for

2-6 weeks, plenty of time for something to grow, I would imagine!



And what are the chances of microorganisms escaping through the ear

channel into the body since there is a direct connection?



I would love to make my own mullein/garlic oil for ears but I have shied

away due to the possible dangers.



Ellie in Florida



From brendam.lakefield.net Tue Oct 08 16:20:48 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] herbs for cats

From: "brendam" <brendam.lakefield.net>

Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:20:48 -0400



I just visited the humane society.  I try to get there every 2-3 months and

each time I go I notice that some cats/kittens have discharge coming out of

their eyes.  Some cats sneeze and one sneezed and had green discharge from

the nose.  I think it must be an upper respiratory infection.  Does anyone

have any thoughts on what herbs could be used?



Thanks

Brenda



From bjwyatt.accesstoledo.com Wed Oct 09 13:32:23 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] herbs for cats

From: "Brenda Wyatt" <bjwyatt.accesstoledo.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:32:23 -0400



Brenda:

I brought in a stray several years ago with upper respiratory infection,

introduced her too soon to the rest of my cat population, and ended up

treating 5 rather than one--lesson learned. Anyway, the original sick kitty

responded very well to a saline solution with 5 drops echinacea tincture per

half cup solution, warmed a bit and dripped in the corner of each eye, three

to five times per day--keep this procedure up for at least two weeks,

refreshing the saline as necessary. I also add a few drops echinacea

tincture to the cat's wet food at each feeding.



Feel free to email me off list for more details.



(Another) Brenda

WomynWyse Herbs & Botanicals

womynwyse.accesstoledo.com



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed Oct 09 02:25:39 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Solomon's Seal

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 19:25:39 -0400



I'm not sure about the inter-changability of

Polygonatums, but I believe they could all be used.  I

also use the Biflorum, cause thats what grows here, but

the initial references to its use for broken bones comes

from Gerard's Herbal... I'm not sure which species is

native to England, but would -guess- most can be used

interchangably.  If you've got plants with big roots,

that's very cool... sometimes the biflorums out by me

have nice, thick, crisp roots, but lots of them are only

knobby at the joints, and pretty thin between.  It can

make for a long day in the woods, stooped over and

watching out for Poison Ivy.... but I suppose I like that

more than most things in life, so no complaints here.



I did, however, once buy the chinese variety and it came

processed in whatever manner all chinese herbs seem to

(steamed? sulfited? who knows, but certainly didn't look

like a dried up root normally would...), and I decided

not to use it... I have no idea whether the curing would

affect or change its properties.  The chinese use it as

some kind of tonic, someone once told me it was to

increase virility... the mucilage could be a signature

for that I suppose.



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Thu Oct 10 00:13:06 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:13:06 +0100



Anyone know any causative factors for recurrent apthous mouth ulcers?

> Doesn't seem to be any other "GI" issues (chron's, uc, coeliacs etc

although

> could such condidtions be sub-clinical?)

>

> Also, no other immune problems, good diet, no stress issues. Breakouts are

> regularly irregular, always on soft moveable bits, get sticky, smelly and

> take 2 weeks ish to clear.

>

> Anyone got any magic formulae? Taking Calendula 90%, Hydrastis and

Echinacea

> as mouthwash & internally. Myrrh is so awful.



 Thanks,

Namh



From cyli.visi.com Thu Oct 10 04:31:18 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: "Cyli" <cyli.visi.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:31:18 -0500



Mail message body



On 9 Oct 2002 at 22:13, Niamh wrote:

(snipped)

> Anyone know any causative factors for recurrent apthous mouth ulcers?

> >

> > Also, no other immune problems, good diet, no stress issues. Breakouts are

> > regularly irregular, always on soft moveable bits, get sticky, smelly and

> > take 2 weeks ish to clear.

> >

> > Anyone got any magic formulae? 



My daughter used to get icky sores every time she dated her 

boyfriend.  Had something to do with kissing and he had perpetual 

cold sores.  Could you be being re-infected regularly from someone 

else?  Using a common spoon, etc.?



From sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de Thu Oct 10 22:19:20 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy.kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:19:20 +0200



. Breakouts are

> > > regularly irregular, always on soft moveable bits, get sticky, smelly

and

> > > take 2 weeks ish to clear.

--------------

I get them too (although I was told the cold sores/fever blister type things

are almost always caused by the herpes virus, which supposedly 2/3rs of

humans carry.  Outbreaks usually occure when the system is weak.  Sometimes

the cycle brings them on with a vengence, but not always).



I tried every recommended remedy on the planet (lemonbalm, myrrh,

goldenseal, lavender, tea tree, to only name a few), and find the ONLY thing

that works with something resembling speed (a week of that pain is not what

I consider successful treatment, even if the normal time frame is 2 weeks)

is raw propolis tincture.



It burns pretty bad for a few seconds, resulting in some major hopping

around, but several times per day application usually clears them up within

2-3 days.  I follow the propolis tincture by propolis cream (raw propolis

heat infused in cator oil for about one year makes and incredible natural

salve consistency) to ease the sting.



Dr. Schulze's tooth and gum formula also brought results, but that hurts

even worse and additionally tastes awful.



Propolis would be my first choice.  A clinical study (forgot the source,

sorry) showed it to be a lot more effective than zovirax.  Raw propolis is

pretty hard to find these days, the most commercially offered stuff is

powder, that means its cut with other things to make it powdery.  Untreated

propolis can NOT be powdered, its way too hard and sticky.  Average cost are

about $2.00 per 10 grams, and it needs to be tinctured in very high alcohol

percentage (I use 96%), best with heat (the back of the stove works wonders,

it heats up each time you use the oven)



If the sores are INSIDE the mouth, I additionally swish with echincea

tincture before applying the propolis.



Green Blessings, Sorcy



From carlton.midrivers.com Fri Oct 11 16:32:49 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: "Aliceann or Scott" <carlton.midrivers.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 07:32:49 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)



Try a mouthwash of sesame oil heated with neem and gotu kola.  It doesn't

burn although the neem is bitter.  The oil needs just a little heating...

hot to touch, take off heat and add 1 tsp neem powder and 1 tsp gotu kola

per cup of oil,  Strain after 10 hours of sitting at room temp.  Can be

applied directly to the ulcer/lesion as well,  If you add myrrh to the oil

you'll get even faster results but may have trouble with the taste.  



BTW I would guess any alcohol tincture would sting/burn.  Turmeric powder

sprinkled directly on a lesion will sting too but then will act as an

analgesic and help with healing.  I can't imagine that propolis alone would

sting but then I leave that material to the bees so haven't any experience

with it apart from in hives and extracting honey.



Aliceann



From kchisholm.ca.inter.net Fri Oct 11 16:57:25 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm.ca.inter.net>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:57:25 -0300



Dear Niamh



Niamh wrote:

> 

> Thanks Sorcy and Cyli,

> 

> they are mouth ulcers, not cold sores, and it's not from reinfection I'm

> sure. Thanks for the useful info anyway.

> Namh



Gold Thread is recommended for mouth sores.... have you

tried it?



Kindest regards,



Kevin Chisholm



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Sat Oct 12 08:54:23 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:54:23 -0400



Nee-iv, right?  That's such a beautiful name, though I'll never be able to 

figure out why those sounds come out of those letters...



Mouth sores can be so difficult... If I use myrrh, I always cut it with 

Agrimony & Lemon Juice, just enough to make the myrrh bearable.  Lemon Balm 

is supposed to be specific against Herpes virus, so you might throw that in 

as well, if you think it could be a cold, and not just a canker, sore.  Then 

a vigorous swishing of the mouth, the more often the better.  It'll sting, 

but that's not so bad... means its working.  I'd also use a tooth powder 

-daily- with sifted clay, powdered Myrrh, some baking soda, a little bit of 

salt, and enough Fennel (or other) essential oil to (again) make the Myrrh 

bearable.  There's a recipe in Rosemary Gladstar's "Herbs for beauty" (or 

something like that book) which is quite good.



Using Goldenseal or Goldthead tastes just as bad as Myrrh, though different. 

  I find that fresh Goldenseal tincture is sweeter tasting than the dried, 

and I would recommend that.  I've got no experience with Goldthread, though 

a friend tells me it tastes worse and works better.  I would just have the 

person take a sqirt of tincture and swish... the more contact the better.



Another thing to try is Propolis, which is supposed to be quite good for 

coldsores/canker sores, though I pretty much only use it for colds & flus.  

Leaving the dreadful flavors of Myrrh, Goldenseal & goldthread behind, I've 

made the most splendid concoction... "Cocoa Buzz".  Simply combine about a 

spoonful of unsweetened, organic Cocoa powder, A spoonful of Wildflower 

Honey, and a squirt or two of Propolis tincture.  The result is a tasty & 

potent medicinal brew that is ideal for small children who've learned to 

SCREAM "No Echinacea!".  Kids never seem to complain when you offer them 

Cocoa... go figure.  It works incredibly for sore throats, and even quite 

well for strep, and is a great treat for those of us adults who still love 

cocoa.  Sometimes I make it for others (or myself) if they have to be around 

sick people.  Its more of a treat than a daily tonic, and might be a way to 

make treating acute outbreaks more fun.  The tincture (I do 1:4, 95%) can 

also be taken straight, and will even provide a little coating on the sore 

if layered on.



If there appears to be a septic infection that is occasionally "flaring up" 

into these sores when you're stressed out, run down and not 

eating/exercising right, look into Wild Indigo, Red Root, Plantain & 

Echinacea.



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Sun Oct 13 01:18:24 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:18:24 +0100



Thanks Jim and Kevin,



Gold thread? What's the Latin? The mix I made for this erruption was

Hydrastis, Echinacea and Calendula, which he started taking just as they

errupted and didn,t heal, but stopped them getting worse. He didn,t take for

almost 24 hours, and they got very bad, at which point he started putting

neat Myrrh on (I know, martyr to the cause) and of course Myrrh just works,

although sometimes it's hard to know if the medicine is worse than the

disease! I don't understand why they keep happening though, in the complete

absence of any other obvious factors in a healthy young man. Thought it

might be environmental, but there is nothing obvious that changes. Yes they

are "just" canker sores. Great recipe Jim! My son is impossible to get any

kind of medicine into, and I'll certainly be giving it a try.



Namh

----- Original Message -----

From: jim mcdonald <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 6:54 AM

Subject: Re: [Herb] mouth ulcers



Nee-iv, right?  That's such a beautiful name, though I'll never be able to

figure out why those sounds come out of those letters...



Mouth sores can be so difficult... If I use myrrh, I always cut it with

Agrimony & Lemon Juice, just enough to make the myrrh bearable.  Lemon Balm

is supposed to be specific against Herpes virus, so you might throw that in

as well, if you think it could be a cold, and not just a canker, sore.  Then

a vigorous swishing of the mouth, the more often the better.  It'll sting,

but that's not so bad... means its working.  I'd also use a tooth powder

-daily- with sifted clay, powdered Myrrh, some baking soda, a little bit of

salt, and enough Fennel (or other) essential oil to (again) make the Myrrh

bearable.  There's a recipe in Rosemary Gladstar's "Herbs for beauty" (or

something like that book) which is quite good.



Using Goldenseal or Goldthead tastes just as bad as Myrrh, though different.

  I find that fresh Goldenseal tincture is sweeter tasting than the dried,

and I would recommend that.  I've got no experience with Goldthread, though

a friend tells me it tastes worse and works better.  I would just have the

person take a sqirt of tincture and swish... the more contact the better.



Another thing to try is Propolis, which is supposed to be quite good for

coldsores/canker sores, though I pretty much only use it for colds & flus.

Leaving the dreadful flavors of Myrrh, Goldenseal & goldthread behind, I've

made the most splendid concoction... "Cocoa Buzz".  Simply combine about a

spoonful of unsweetened, organic Cocoa powder, A spoonful of Wildflower

Honey, and a squirt or two of Propolis tincture.  The result is a tasty &

potent medicinal brew that is ideal for small children who've learned to

SCREAM "No Echinacea!".  Kids never seem to complain when you offer them

Cocoa... go figure.  It works incredibly for sore throats, and even quite

well for strep, and is a great treat for those of us adults who still love

cocoa.  Sometimes I make it for others (or myself) if they have to be around

sick people.  Its more of a treat than a daily tonic, and might be a way to

make treating acute outbreaks more fun.  The tincture (I do 1:4, 95%) can

also be taken straight, and will even provide a little coating on the sore

if layered on.



If there appears to be a septic infection that is occasionally "flaring up"

into these sores when you're stressed out, run down and not

eating/exercising right, look into Wild Indigo, Red Root, Plantain &

Echinacea.



From macphee.net1plus.com Sun Oct 13 03:24:34 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: "Joanie" <macphee.net1plus.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 20:24:34 -0400



Goldthread is Coptis genus.  Coptis trifolia subsp. groenlandica (formerly

species name) is the species growing here in NewEngland (except Cape Cod),

and I personally know of no other.  Low growing evergreen woodland plant

with threadlike bright-yellow rhizomes being the medicinally active part,

similar in action and contents to goldenseal at al, and in the same family.

I hope it does not get too popular, as it too could get wiped out.  Good

stuff to use if it is growing well in your back woods, though,,,those woods

would be rather cool and wet and dark.  Joanie



> Thanks Jim and Kevin,

>

> Gold thread? What's the Latin?



From wdsofedn.bellsouth.net Wed Oct 16 06:01:07 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] mouth ulcers

From: myron <wdsofedn.bellsouth.net>

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:01:07 +0900



Hello,



just got back from the AHG meeting in wisconsin and I'm running through my

e-mail.

Don't know if any one mentioned this already regarding mouth sores (and not

cold sores),

but this is one of the earlier symptoms of Crohn's disease.  I would wonder

if there were any bowel complaints (diarrhea, constipation, blood or mucous

in the stool?) .  If not, I've found Krameria works remarkably well.  Good

luck!

-- 

Myron Hardesty

Clinical Herbalist



Weeds of Eden

1572 Bardstown Road

Louisville, KY  40205

(502) 456-9453 



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Thu Oct 10 00:13:56 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:13:56 +0100



Hello all,

I am trying to research the entry of herbs into breastmilk and in particular

which herbs can be used to treat the infant through the milk and which herbs

the mother should not take while breastfeeding. Can anyone point me in the

direction of resources to do with the pharmacokinetics of herbs into

breastmilk? Also any good resources to deal with the formulation of

breastmilk itself or a good general herbal pharmacology link.



It seems almost impossible to predict given the tiny understanding we have

of the synergy of the whole herb on the first person, never mind a second!



Does anyone have practical experience of treating the infant through the

mother and is it really feasible?



Thanks for any thoughts,

Namh



From HerbalSW.aol.com Thu Oct 10 00:51:10 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: HerbalSW.aol.com

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:51:10 EDT



Niamh:

What herbs in particular are you thinking about?

I frequently suggest moms drink chamomile for a restless and or colicky baby 

unless the Mom is seriously allergic to ragweed...

There a A LOT of herbs that are counterindicated in pregnancy which would 

also follow through for breast feeding...

Let me know if you want me to send you some information or I can post it 

here, if that is okay...

Catherine



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Thu Oct 10 08:53:44 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:53:44 +0300



HerbalSW.aol.com wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> There a A LOT of herbs that are counterindicated in pregnancy which would 

> also follow through for breast feeding...

> Let me know if you want me to send you some information or I can post it 

> here, if that is okay...



Sure, post here.

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Thu Oct 10 00:57:01 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:57:01 -0500



This is actually an area of interest for me, as I am also a volunteer

lactation counselor and hope to be a certified lactation consultant in the

not-too-distant future. I would start with reading the reference book

written by Thomas Hale, PhD, called "Medications and Mothers' Milk" which is

considered the equivalent of the PDR, but as it pertains to the

breastfeeding pair. It's considered THE pharmacological reference book WRT

lactation, and as the use of herbs becomes more and more popular, each

subsequent edition has more herb entries in addition to drugs (albeit, very

little information on actual transfer into milk). His website is also a

wealth of general information as far as drug transfer into milk, which can

generally also be applied to herbs as well:



http://neonatal.ttuhsc.edu/lact/



Also worth mentioning is this website, which is devoted to all things

breastfeeding, and has a great page on the use of herbs during

breastfeeding:



http://www.kellymom.com/other-herbs.html



WRT your question about treating the nursing baby herbally through the

mother - just as with pharmaceutical meds, in general VERY VERY little of

the drug/herb actually goes through into the milk, so treating the baby

indirectly through the mother is generally not very effective. Of course,

there are a few exceptions to that, such as when the baby is in the

immediate neonatal period (first couple weeks of life) and has what's called

a "leaky gut," at which time much more of the drug/herb would actually get

through into the baby's system. But a good rule of thumb is that baby

generally gets about 1% of what mom takes in, and other than the breastmilk

itself, it's generally not very effective to treat baby in that manner.

Depending on the age of the baby and if any other foods/supplementation has

been given to baby (thus destroying baby's "pristine gut") I feel

comfortable giving a few milder glycerite herbs directly to baby.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----

I am trying to research the entry of herbs into breastmilk and in particular

which herbs can be used to treat the infant through the milk and which herbs

the mother should not take while breastfeeding. Can anyone point me in the

direction of resources to do with the pharmacokinetics of herbs into

breastmilk? Also any good resources to deal with the formulation of

breastmilk itself or a good general herbal pharmacology link.



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Thu Oct 10 01:08:50 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:08:50 +0100



Thanks to Kerry, Catherine and Terra for your prompt replies.



I read some of Dr Hale's stuff through ibreastfeeding.com and he does seem

to be an authority on breastfeeding, although a lot of his stuff is centred

around the pharmacology of drugs. I tied mailing him, but he has a full

schedule of seminars all over the world. He is running some research into

some herbs, I think SJW and Milk thistle, pesumably to ascertain whether

thos herbs taken by and for the mother are passed through the milk. What I

want to know is whether the normal herbs you would like to take for your

baby can pass through the barrier. For instance, I read that basic (alkali)

molecules are ion trapped in the milk (ie kept there) whereas other

molecules are not and are excreted by the mother in the normal way. I want

to do this for a dissertation and need to know more about the

pharmacokinetics of herbs to do this. You are right Catherine, ther may be

crossovers with drugs as a lot of the principles are the same. The only

thing I could do is strip it down to active constituents and compare them

that way, not what I want to do, but you have to start somewhere. So Kerry,

I am thinking about all herbs for children. And Terra, I think we can safely

say that the sulfurs in garlic etc DEFINITELY pass through the milk (!), BUT

WHY and can it be applied to other herbs? Do the volatile oils pass and why?

And once they do pass, are they absorbed by the infant? Like alcohol is

passed to the milk but is cleared from it in about 30 mins per

unit...nicotine is passed and accumulates there, but doesn't pass through

the babiy's gut, only irritates it in large ammounts.



So what I am looking for really, is resources on the chemistry of pertinent

herbs, the pharmacokinetics of them in the mother's body (whether or not

they accumulate in milk) and the likelihood of their absorption once in the

baby.



Also, once you have your baby, there is often lots of work to be done in

toning up your venous system (not to mention the bowel) and getting rid of

accumulations and the like. I worry for my one little one about taking

depuratives for example, and even sapponin herbs. I want to know whether I

should be worried.



And any anecdotal stuff would be really nice as that's what it is all about.



Cheers,

Namh

>

>



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Thu Oct 10 01:55:01 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:55:01 -0500



Yes, there's not a lot of info or research out there on the pharmokinetics

of herbs as they pertain to lactation, not nearly as much as there is on

pharmaceutical drugs. Even with garlic and St. John's wort, two of the most

extensively studied herbs out there, we have no information on milk/plasma

ratios or protein binding. So all I think you'll be able to do is break them

down into components (something we're always loathe to do with herbs), look

at pharmaceutical drugs with similar characteristics, and do some

extrapolating.



Regarding nicotine - it does have 30% oral bioavailability, so a good

portion of it does make it from the breastmilk/baby's GI tract into the

baby's system.



Regarding detoxifying - it's generally not recommended, as the breastmilk is

one of the chief ways that toxins are eliminated from the body. You know how

you feel when you're going through a detox? All that crud that's making you

feel that way is going DIRECTLY INTO your breastmilk. Some mild liver toning

and eating good foods is about all I'd recommend while breastfeeding. The

exception to that is if the mother or baby is dealing with yeast overgrowth

that is affecting nursing.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----

I want

to do this for a dissertation and need to know more about the

pharmacokinetics of herbs to do this. You are right Catherine, ther may be

crossovers with drugs as a lot of the principles are the same. The only

thing I could do is strip it down to active constituents and compare them

that way, not what I want to do, but you have to start somewhere.



Like alcohol is

passed to the milk but is cleared from it in about 30 mins per

unit...nicotine is passed and accumulates there, but doesn't pass through

the babiy's gut, only irritates it in large ammounts.



Also, once you have your baby, there is often lots of work to be done in

toning up your venous system (not to mention the bowel) and getting rid of

accumulations and the like. I worry for my one little one about taking

depuratives for example, and even sapponin herbs. I want to know whether I

should be worried.



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Thu Oct 10 01:10:06 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:10:06 -0500



Also worth noting is that there really are very few herbs that are

contraindicated in the nursing mother that AREN'T contraindicated while not

nursing. Purgative and some stimulant herbs generally should be avoided, as

they're a bit harsh, and there are a few herbs which can decrease milk

production which should also be avoided (mentha spp., parsley, sage).



Kerry



From violetmoon.mindspring.com Thu Oct 10 01:23:22 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: "Erica" <violetmoon.mindspring.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:23:22 -0500



Hi Niamh,



I am not the most knowledgeable I'm sure, but as a doula I work with

lots of women and babies.  Chamomile tea is awesome for babies who are

inconsolable.  Moms drink it and within 10 or so minutes begin

breastfeeding and the effect is very noticeable.  A combination of dill,

fennel, and chamomile is also great for colicky babies.  Other ways that

herbs are great while breastfeeding it to just add simple nourishment by

using nettles, red clover, oat straw, etc. I worked with a mom once that

was very unhealthy, young and single that really wanted the best for her

baby but didn't eat very healthy.  Typically, the baby gets what it

needs while the mother suffers from deficiency.  However, this baby was

pasty, pale, and not very vibrant.  She seemed rather weak as well.  Mom

started drinking a daily infusion of just nettles, oat straw, and

peppermint and within a week there was a noticeable difference.  Then we

worked more specifically on diet.  The baby turned pink and vibrant

again, and the mom has become a very empowered and energetic young lady.



Anyway, Le Leche League International would be a great resource I'm

sure, and there is a doctor who has done extensive research on

breastmilk, medications, and some herbs.  I think his name is Dr. Hale?

I'll double check and post if I find out for sure.  He has an extensive

web site.



Be well,

Erica



From NEHrbSup.aol.com Thu Oct 10 06:46:05 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Treating babies through breastmilk

From: NEHrbSup.aol.com

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:46:05 EDT



Hi again,



Just a note of caution for the specific issue of breastfeeding.  Nursing moms 

should not just be cautious but should absolutely ABSTAIN from any of the 

herbs that act as chelators of heavy metals.  Those of you who have been 

around the list for a while know I am somewhat passionate about heavy metals 

and the issues surrounding the hows and whys they are in the food chain and 

vaccines etc to begin with but that is something that will have to wait for 

another day (and probably another list) for discussion.  



The herbs that come immediately to mind to absolutely NOT consume while 

pregnant or nursing are cilantro in all its forms - coriander seed - 

coriander leaf -   wood sorrell and sheep sorrel (really some debate as to 

whether sheep actually chelates stuff)  and chlorella.  You won't find this 

on 'warning" lists or labels, and no harm will come to mom if she eats or 

consumes them, but they put baby at significant risk both "in utero" and when 

nursing.  These "chelators" are, becasue of their chemical characteristics, 

able to grab (chelate) heavy metal that is bound in mom's tissues and bring 

it into the bloodsteream where it is "supposed" to then be eliminated.  But 

if mom is either pregnant or nursing she gets to share her poison with her 

child. 



 I've heard different multipliers over time and still don't have a good 

reputable source that I would rely on to give me a definitive hard number but 

what I have found is that a pregnant mom will pass to her unborn child 

something like 2.5 to 4 times her own body burden of heavy metals (measured 

in part per million) when something is done to free (chelate) it from mom's 

tissue.  Lactating moms will pass a greater amount (measured in micrograms  

per liter) than this to their children because heavy metals LOVE fatty tissue 

and any accumulation of fats - which is just what the body is working with 

and refining when it makes milk.  



The worldwide increase in autism that is aproaching epedimic levels in some 

area is now believed to be linked in large part directly to heavy metal 

toxicity of mom and child



For my pregnant and lactating clients, I suggest rather vehemently that they 

not only avoid the above but that they take either ester C (preferred) or 

Rose Hips becaue of its neuro-protective benefits for both mom and child, and 

just as strongly suggest that unless they have a true emergency they stay OUT 

of a dental office during the entire time they are pregnant or nursing if 

they have any amalgam fillings in their mouth. 



peter  



Peter Byram, CNC,  Herbalist

New England Herbal Supply Co.

299 Jagger Lane

Hebron, Connecticut 06248

860-228-9199  -  Fax 860-228-9399



From NEHrbSup.aol.com Thu Oct 10 06:19:06 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: NEHrbSup.aol.com

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:19:06 EDT



Hi guys

The following is the list that I use in the shop both as a hand out and as a 

reference for putting warnigns on the packages of some of the different herbs 

we offer. It started with the American Botanical Council's list and has been 

amended over the past 6 or 7 years as new stuf is published.   I started to 

cull out the non-pregnancy/ breastfeeding ones but then decided that it might 

be a handy guide for folks to have in its entirety.   Hope someone finds it 

helpful.



Safety Guide 

For Botanical/ Medicinal Herbs



The following herbal safety guide and cautions are based on the American 

Herbal Products Association Botanical Safety Index. The index was created to 

provide standard safety classifications and labeling recommendations for 

botanical or medicinal herbs . As with all guides of this nature the 

assumption of the authors is that the herbs will be used in a rational, 

educated and well informed manner. Illness or negative reactions, some very 

severe, can occur from casual or irresponsible use, excessive consumption, 

individual sensitivities and allergic reactions. We highly recommend that 

anyone intending to use botanical herbs with which they are unfamiliar in a 

program of self medication first seek qualified expert advice before using.



Agar Agar

This herb should be ingested only with adequate liquid. Not for use by 

persons with bowel obstruction.



Alfalfa

Not recommended for use by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Aloes (Cape)

Read and follow directions carefully. Do not use if you have or develop 

diarrhea, loose stools or abdominal pain. Consult your physician if you have 

frequent diarrhea. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication or have a 

medical condition, consult your physician before using this product.



Angelica

Not to be used during pregnancy or by persons taking blood thinning agents. 

Avoid prolonged exposure to sunlight.



Arnica  (excludes homeopathics)

For external use only. Can cause allergic dermatitis with extended use or in 

sensitive persons.



Ashwagandha

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Barberry 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Bergamot, Wild 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Black Cohosh 

Not to be used during pregnancy or while nursing.



Black Walnut

Not recommended for long term use.



Bladderwrack  

Not to be used during pregnancy or while nursing, or by persons with 

hyperthyroidism.



Blessed Thistle 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Bloodroot 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Blue Cohosh

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Boldo

Not to be used by persons with gallstones, serious liver conditions or 

obstruction of the bile duct.



Borage



Not recommended for long term use. Not to be used during pregnancy or while 

nursing.



Broom Tops



Not for use by persons taking MAO inhibitors or with high blood pressure.



Buchu Not to be used during pregnancy.



Buckthorn

Read and follow directions carefully. Do not use if you have or develop 

diarrhea, loose stools or abdominal pain. Consult your physician if you have 

frequent diarrhea. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication or have a 

medical condition, consult your physician before using this product.



Calamus, European

Not recommended for internal use



Canada Snakeroot

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use. Not to be used during 

pregnancy.



Cascara Sagrada

Read and follow directions carefully. Do not use if you have or develop 

diarrhea, loose stools or abdominal pain. Consult your physic) an if you have 

frequent diarrhea. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication or have a 

medical condition, consult your physician before using this product.



Catnip 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Cayenne (capsules & extract only)

Avoid contact with eyes or open wounds.



Celandine (extract only) 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Chamomile, Roman 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Chaste Tree Berries 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Coltsfoot

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use. Not to be used during 

pregnancy or while nursing.



Comfrey

For external use only. This herb should not be used on abraded skin and 

should not be used on unbroken skin for prolonged periods. Not to be used 

during pregnancy.



Coptis 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Cornflowers 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Cramp Bark

Not recommended for use by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Deer's Tongue

Use as an aromatic in potpourris or other crafts. Not for internal use.



Devil's Claw

Not recommended for use by persons with ulcers.



Dong Quai

Not to be used during pregnancy or by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Dyers Broom Flowers 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Elecampane

Not to be used during pregnancy or while nursing.



Ephedra (Ma Huang)

Warning: Seek advice from a health care practitioner prior to use if you are 

pregnant or nursing, or if you have high blood pressure, heart or thyroid 

disease, diabetes, difficulty in urination due to prostate enlargement or if 

taking an MAO inhibitor or any other prescription drug. Reduce or discontinue 

use if nervousness, tremor, sleeplessness, loss of appetite or nausea occur. 

Not intended for persons under 18 years of age. KEEP OUT OF THE REACH OF 

CHILDREN.



Eucalyptus

Not to be used by persons with inflammatory diseases of the gastro-intestinal 

and bile ducts and severe diseases of the liver.



False Unicorn 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Flax Seed

This herb should be ingested only with adequate liquid. Not for use by 

persons with bowel obstruction.



Garlic (capsules & extract only)

Not to be used during pregnancy or while nursing.



Gentian

Not to be used by persons with ulcers or when stomach irritation or 

inflammation is present.



Ginger (capsules & dry extract only)

Not to be used during pregnancy. Persons with gallstones should consult a 

health care practitioner before use.



Goldenrod

Persons with chronic kidney disorder should consult a health care 

practitioner before use.



Goldenseal Root

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use. Not to be used during 

pregnancy.



Guar

This herb should be ingested only with adequate liquid. Not for use by 

persons with bowel obstruction.



Henna 

For external use only.



Hop Flowers

Not recommended for use by persons suffering from depression.



Horehound 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Horseradish (extract only)

Not for use by persons with kidney disorders or inflammation of the stomach 

lining.



Hydrangea

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use.



Juniper Berries

Not to be used for more than six weeks in succession. Persons with 

inflammatory kidney disease should not use this herb. Not to be used during 

pregnancy.



Lemongrass Not to be used during pregnancy.



Licorice

Not for prolonged use except under the supervision of a qualified health 

practitioner. Prolonged use may cause hypertension, edema, headache, vertigo 

and potassium depletion. Not for use by persons with hypertension, 

hypokalemia, edema, cirrhosis of the liver and cholestatic liver disorders, 

and diabetes. Not to be used during pregnancy.



Lobelia

May cause nausea and vomiting if ingested. Not to be used during pregnancy.



Lomatium (bulk herb)

Not recommended for use by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Lomatium (extract)

Not recommended for use by persons taking blood thinning agents. This product 

may cause a skin rash. Discontinue use if rash occurs.



Lovage

Not recommended for use by persons taking blood thinning agents or persons 

with impaired or inflamed kidneys.



Lovage Sichuan 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Lycii Berries 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Mace

Caution: Large amounts of nutmeg or mace may cause dizziness, stomach pains, 

rapid pulse, nausea, anxiety, liver pain, double vision and coma.



Maidenhair Fern

Not to be used during pregnancy. Large doses may act as an emetic.



Mistletoe

Not for use by persons with protein hypersensitivity and chronic progressive 

infections such as tuberculosis and AIDS.



Motherwort 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Mugwort 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Mulberry Bark 

For decorative use only.



Mulberry Twig

Not recommended for use by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Myrrh 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Nutmeg

Caution: Large amounts of nutmeg or mace may cause dizziness, stomach pains, 

rapid pulse, nausea, anxiety, liver pain. double vision and coma.



Oregon Grape 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Osha 

Not to be used during pregnancy.

Parsley Root

Not to be used during pregnancy or by persons with inflammatory kidney 

disease.



Pennyroyal, European 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Periwinkle

Not for use by persons with low blood pressure or hypotension.



Pleurisy 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Polygala (Senega)

Not for use by persons with gastritis or ulcers.



Prickly Ash Bark 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Psyllium Seed

This herb should be ingested only with adequate liquid. Not for use by 

persons with bowel obstruction.



Quassia 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Queen of the Meadow

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use. Not to be used during 

pregnancy or while nursing.



Red Clover

Not to be used during pregnancy or by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Rehmannia, Raw

Not for use by persons with diarrhea and lack of appetite.



Rehmannia, Steamed

Not for use by persons with diarrhea and indigestion.



Rhubarb

Read and follow directions carefully. Do not use if you have or develop 

diarrhea, loose stools or abdominal pain. Consult your physician if you have 

frequent diarrhea. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication or have a 

medical condition, consult your physician before using this product.



Rosemary (extract only) 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Rue

Not to be used during pregnancy or by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Safflower

Not to be used during pregnancy or by persons with hemorrhagic diseases or 

peptic ulcers. Ingestion of this herb may prolong blood coagulation time.



Sage (extract only)

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use. Not to be used during 

pregnancy.



Sandalwood, Yellow

Not for use by persons with diseases of the parenchyma of the kidney.



Sarsaparilla, Indian

Not recommended for use by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Sassafras Root

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use.



Senna

Read and follow directions carefully Do not use if you have or develop 

diarrhea, loose stools or abdominal pain. Consult your physician if you have 

frequent diarrhea. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication or have a 

medical condition, consult your physician before using this product.



Sheep Sorrel

Not recommended for use by persons with a history of kidney stones.



Shepherd's Purse

Not to be used during pregnancy or by persons with a history of kidney 

stones.



Sichuan Peppercorns 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Sloe Berries

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use.



Southernwood 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Tansy 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Tonka 

Use as an aromatic fixative in potpourris or other crafts. Not for internal 

use.



Tree Peony 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Turmeric (extract only) 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Uva Ursi 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Vetiver 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



White Oak 

Avoid application to extensively damaged skin.



Wild Cherry 

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use.



Wild Indigo (extract only) 

Not to be used during pregnancy. May cause vomiting and diarrhea, and is 

toxic in large doses.



Woodruff 

Not recommended for use by persons taking blood thinning agents.



Wormwood 

Use with caution. Avoid excessive or long term use. Not to be used during 

pregnancy.



Yarrow 

Not to be used during pregnancy.



Yellowdock 

Not recommended for use by persons with a history of kidney stones.



Peter Byram, Herbalist

New England Herbal Supply Co.

299 Jagger Lane

Hebron, Connecticut 06248

860-228-9199  -  Fax 860-228-9399



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Thu Oct 10 06:35:10 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:35:10 -0500



That's an interesting list, thank you! There were a couple questionable

entries, such as garlic, which the list states is contraindicated while

breastfeeding (it is not). Also interesting is that it DOESN'T state that

sage is contraindicated while breastfeeding, and of all the herbs out there,

that is the FIRST herb I would say that breastfeeding women should avoid

(medicinal amounts, culinary amounts are fine). Also worth mentioning is

that many sources state that Vitex agnus castus should be avoided during

pregnancy, when in fact it can be beneficial at preserving a pregnancy in

women who have a history of miscarriage (due to it's progesteronic effects).



Kerry



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Fri Oct 11 00:59:36 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:59:36 +0100



Another interesting about Vitex is that it is galactagogue in "small"

dosages and inhibits prolactin in "large" doses through its dopaminergic

(theory) actions. Although all dosages for Vitex are usually so small that I

can't seem to justify that at all. Anyone know what sort of range that might

be?



 Also worth mentioning is

> that many sources state that Vitex agnus castus should be avoided during

> pregnancy, when in fact it can be beneficial at preserving a pregnancy in

> women who have a history of miscarriage (due to it's progesteronic

effects).

>

> Kerry

>



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Thu Oct 10 09:21:27 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:21:27 +0300



NEHrbSup.aol.com wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> The following is the list that I use in the shop both as a hand out and as a 

> reference for putting warnigns on the packages of some of the different herbs 

> we offer. It started with the American Botanical Council's list and has been 

> amended over the past 6 or 7 years as new stuf is published.   I started to 

> cull out the non-pregnancy/ breastfeeding ones but then decided that it might 

> be a handy guide for folks to have in its entirety.   Hope someone finds it 

> helpful.



Your list is fine as far as it goes, but I find the lack of latin names a real

disadvantage. As well as the lack of "why" for the "not to be used in pregnancy"

or "not to be used while lactating" bits.



You should be aware, too, that the ABC info is pretty theoretical; they trust

research done in vitro and on hamsters far too much for my tastes. This can be

seen in their involvement in "HerbalGram" and in their past involvement with

Tyler (past because the man died, not because they stopped supporting him.). And

let's face it, anybody who could push Tyler as "the" authority on herbal

medicine didn't have a clue about herbal medicine.



There's a few real authorities on herbal medicine. One of them is Michael Moore

(another would be David Hoffman, even if his live talks _stink_.). You'll find

Michael's extremely good list of herbal-medical contraindications on his site:



  http://www.swsbm.com/ManualsMM/HerbMedContra1.txt (as text file), or 

  http://www.swsbm.com/ManualsMM/HerbMedContra1.pdf (as .pdf file)



It includes a section on pregnancy which includes a section titled "may be

present in milk". The milk bit includes garlic, of course (because garlic does

get into milk), but that's because some babies can't stand the taste of garlic

;)



Michael has other of his manuals online, too: 

http://www.swsbm.com/ManualsMM/MansMM.html



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Thu Oct 10 23:52:31 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:52:31 +0100



Peter, some "whys":

>

> Borage

>

> Not recommended for long term use. Not to be used during pregnancy or

while

> nursing.



WHY!! It's a galactagogue and lovely for breastfeeding I think ,I'm shocked!

Why not for long term use?

>

> Catnip

> Not to be used during pregnancy.



> Elecampane

> Not to be used during pregnancy or while nursing.

>

> Ginger (capsules & dry extract only)

> Not to be used during pregnancy. Persons with gallstones should consult a

> health care practitioner before use.

>

> Horehound

> Not to be used during pregnancy.

>

> Mistletoe

> Not for use by persons with protein hypersensitivity and chronic

progressive

> infections such as tuberculosis and AIDS.

>

> Turmeric (extract only)

> Not to be used during pregnancy.

>

> Yarrow

> Not to be used during pregnancy.

>

>

> Peter Byram, Herbalist

> New England Herbal Supply Co.

> 299 Jagger Lane

> Hebron, Connecticut 06248

> 860-228-9199  -  Fax 860-228-9399



Thanks,

Namh



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Fri Oct 11 00:29:04 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:29:04 -0500



I agree, Niamh. It also has WONDERFUL EFAs, which is great for baby's brain

development, both in utero and while breastfeeding.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



Peter, some "whys":

>

> Borage

>

> Not recommended for long term use. Not to be used during pregnancy or

while

> nursing.



WHY!! It's a galactagogue and lovely for breastfeeding I think ,I'm shocked!

Why not for long term use?

>



From mterry.snet.net Fri Oct 11 03:00:41 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:00:41 -0400



Kerry & Jack wrote:



> I agree, Niamh. It also has WONDERFUL EFAs, which is great for baby's brain

> development, both in utero and while breastfeeding.

>

> WHY!! It's a galactagogue and lovely for breastfeeding I think ,I'm shocked!

> Why not for long term use?



Borage contains pyrrolizidine alkaloids:



 http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/PAs/PAs-plants.html



--

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created

them.  ---Albert Einstein



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Fri Oct 11 08:07:38 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:07:38 +0300



"Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> I agree, Niamh. It also has WONDERFUL EFAs, which is great for baby's brain

> development, both in utero and while breastfeeding.



Borage seed oil is different from borage. Borage seed oil has not been found to

contain PAs.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From gcwhite.ntlworld.com Sun Oct 13 12:34:22 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: "gcwhite" <gcwhite.ntlworld.com>

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:34:22 +0100



> I agree, Niamh. It also has WONDERFUL EFAs, which is great for baby's

brain

> development, both in utero and while breastfeeding.



> Kerry



The EFAs are only in the borage seed ie. starflower oil, and are not present

in the herb which is what is referred to below.  Also borage oil doesn't

contain any of the omega-3 EFA which is the most important for brain

development  (found in flax oil, hemp seed oil, fish oils.)



Cheers



Graham White  B.Sc. (Herb. Med.), MNIMH.

Medical Herbalist

Bishop's Stortford & Buntingford

--------------------------------------------------------------------



gcwhite.ntlworld.com



> -----Original Message-----

>

> Peter, some "whys":

> >

> > Borage

> >

> > Not recommended for long term use. Not to be used during pregnancy or

> while

> > nursing.

>

> WHY!! It's a galactagogue and lovely for breastfeeding I think ,I'm

shocked!

> Why not for long term use?



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Fri Oct 11 08:07:03 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:07:03 +0300



"Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:

> Peter, some "whys":

> >

> > Borage

> >

> > Not recommended for long term use. Not to be used during pregnancy or while

> > nursing.

> 

> WHY!! It's a galactagogue and lovely for breastfeeding I think ,I'm shocked!

> Why not for long term use?



Borage contains hepatotoxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids.



And do snip as you go. 



Thanks.

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From oaksong.peak.org Fri Oct 11 10:12:11 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: margi <oaksong.peak.org>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:12:11 -0700



Isn't that supposed to be broken skin?



~margi



NEHrbSup.aol.com wrote:



> Comfrey

> For external use only. This herb should not be used on abraded skin and

> should not be used on unbroken skin for prolonged periods. Not to be used

> during pregnancy.



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Fri Oct 11 16:12:53 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:12:53 -0500



The warning says that it should NOT be used on abraded (broken) skin, and

that it should not be used FOR LONG PERIODS on unbroken skin, as the PAs can

get into the body transdermally.



Of course, there is a whole school of thought that comfrey, in its whole

form, is not really a concern with regards to PAs, especially for external

use, and especially with an oil.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



Isn't that supposed to be broken skin?



~margi



NEHrbSup.aol.com wrote:



> Comfrey

> For external use only. This herb should not be used on abraded skin and

> should not be used on unbroken skin for prolonged periods. Not to be used

> during pregnancy.



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Fri Oct 11 17:12:18 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:12:18 +0300



"Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> The warning says that it should NOT be used on abraded (broken) skin, and

> that it should not be used FOR LONG PERIODS on unbroken skin, as the PAs can

> get into the body transdermally.

> 

> Of course, there is a whole school of thought that comfrey, in its whole

> form, is not really a concern with regards to PAs, especially for external

> use, and especially with an oil.



That's true. Pyrrolizidine alkaloids are water soluble; AFAIK they're not oil

soluble. So make your oil from dried plant; if you make it from fresh plant

you'll get watersoluble constituents, too.



Anyway, dried comfrey leaf smells stale. Very stale. Yech.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Fri Oct 11 17:23:25 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:23:25 -0500



Funny you mention that, because another list member and I recently had a

conversation about comfrey oil she was trying to make, and it was coming out

smelling very strongly. I don't think it's a stale smell, but just very

"green" and herby. It reminds me of the smell of alfalfa, or being in a

horse barn. Fortunately, the salve I make with comfrey also has German

chamomile, which makes the finished product smell nice and sweet. The

lavender essential oil doesn't hurt things either.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----

From: herb-admin.lists.ibiblio.org



That's true. Pyrrolizidine alkaloids are water soluble; AFAIK they're not

oil

soluble. So make your oil from dried plant; if you make it from fresh plant

you'll get watersoluble constituents, too.



Anyway, dried comfrey leaf smells stale. Very stale. Yech.



From oaksong.peak.org Fri Oct 11 19:45:36 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: margi <oaksong.peak.org>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:45:36 -0700



Thanks for the clarification.



Any ideas for a GENERAL guideline for how long is a long period?  I realize this

varies from case to case.  Do certain constitutions tend to absorb substances

transdermally more than other types, or is there some other way to estimate

safety of external use?  I understand that this is a contraversial subject, but

wonder if folks have logical reasons for their thoughts on this.  I've seen

comfrey used internally and repeatedly with no apparent ill effects, but livers

vary greatly, eh?



Thanks,

~margi



Kerry & Jack wrote:



> The warning says that it should NOT be used on abraded (broken) skin, and

> that it should not be used FOR LONG PERIODS on unbroken skin, as the PAs can

> get into the body transdermally.

>

> Of course, there is a whole school of thought that comfrey, in its whole

> form, is not really a concern with regards to PAs, especially for external

> use, and especially with an oil.

>

> Kerry

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

> Isn't that supposed to be broken skin?

>

> ~margi



From tmueller.bluegrass.net Sun Oct 13 08:25:03 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Really long - list of warnings - pregnancy etc etc.

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller.bluegrass.net>

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:25:03 -0400 (EDT)



Thanks to Peter Byram for the herbal safety guide.  It looks like the safety 

guide that was published in the Frontier catalog for 1996-97, but of course,

most people don't have that catalog.



It seems the safety guide erred in favor of caution in some places, such as not

using Sichuan pepper and sage, among other spices, during pregnancy.  These are

both common cooking spices in some large part of the world, China in the case of

Sichuan pepper.  Lemon grass and red clover are so mild I can't believe they'd

be contraindicated for pregnancy.  I've picked red clover flowering heads for

use in cooking, quite confident of no toxicity.



From tmueller.bluegrass.net Thu Oct 10 07:00:38 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Re: Hops

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller.bluegrass.net>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:00:38 -0400 (EDT)



from "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme.quartal.com>:



I suggest you get your hops (Humulus lupulus) from a homebrew supply shop. They carry oxygen-barrier packaged hops in the form of either pellets or whole cones. Pellets have a slightly longer shelf life. A good homebrew shop _always_ keeps the packages in the fridge and the labels tell you which year's harvest it is. Smell the package. If it smells like hops, the package leaks and you shouldn't buy it. Go to another shop, a good one, that takes care of the stuff they sell. If last year's harvest is all you can find right now, use it quickly and get some fresh when this year's harvest arrives.



If you want hops for their lupulin content (*bitter*), which you probably do, ask for "bittering hops" and choose a variety with high alpha acid content. It's marked on the label as "AA%". Some US varieties that have a very high AA content are Chinook (typically 12-14 AA%), Columbus (13-16 AA%) and Nugget (12-14 AA%). In the UK, try something like Target or Northern Brewer.



Store your hops in air-tight containers in either the fridge or the freezer. I store mine always in the freezer.



Questions?



Miikkali

(end of quote)



My response:



Thanks for info on hops.  Now what are the pellets, and how are they made?  Are

they sort of like instant coffee or the granules used in Chinese herbal 

medicine?  I suppose the cones would be less processed.



From leppihalme.quartal.com Thu Oct 10 10:52:14 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Re: Hops

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme.quartal.com>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:52:14 +0300



Thomas Mueller:

>

> Thanks for info on hops.  Now what are the pellets,

> and how are they made?



They're hop cones dried, ground, and pressed into small pellets. What do they look like? See, for instance, these pages:

http://www.stpats.com/hops.htm

http://www.worthogbrewers.co.za/ag4b/ag4b_ingredients.html



Or do your own search on Google (nci).



> Are they sort of like instant coffee



No. Instant coffee is a freeze-dried extract (infusion) of roasted coffee beans. Hop pellets are just hops that are ground to a coarse powder and pressed into pellets. Because they have a smaller surface in direct contact with air, they have a longer shelf life. Of course, they also have to be stored properly. (Oxygen-barrier package, in cold.) The price is usually the same as with whole cones.



At this time of year, if only 2001 harvest is available, I choose pellets. If the new harvest is available, I choose whole cones. I prefer stuff that's only minimally processed, if at all.



> or the granules used in Chinese herbal medicine?



I don't know what they are or how they are made.



> I suppose the cones would be less processed.



Yeah. Whole cones are just dried. If you don't count drying as "processing", then they're not processed at all.



How to use hops then? If you want just the bitterness, boil them in water for an hour. (Actually, a slightly lower pH than water would be better in isomerizing the hop oils and getting the bitterness out, but water will do.) This way, through decoction, you'll lose most of the volatile oils but get the most of the bitterness. If you want to preserve the volatile oils and whatever medicinal properties they have, make a standard infusion. This way you'll have less bitterness.



Some homebrew supply stores also carry isomerized hop oil, but I know too little about how it's made to give proper advice. I think it's like an EO, but that's just a guess.



Miikkali



From leppihalme.quartal.com Thu Oct 10 11:04:54 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Re: Hops

From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme.quartal.com>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:04:54 +0300



Thomas Mueller:

> Thanks for info on hops.  Now what are the pellets



As an addition to my previous post on hop forms, there are also "hop pucks". They're sort of in the middle of whole cones and pellets, processing-wise and shelf-life-wise. Pucks are whole hop cones pressed into pucks about half an inch thick and about 1.5 inches in diameter.



Miikkali



From mwherbs.dshome.net Thu Oct 10 20:03:22 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: Treating babies through breastmilk

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs.dshome.net>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:03:22 -0700



  Peter wrote "The herbs that come immediately to mind to absolutely 

NOT consume while pregnant or nursing are cilantro in all its forms - 

coriander seed -

coriander leaf -"



Do you have references for this info, I am very interested in them 

because living here in the southwest it is rare to see a pregnant or 

nursing mother who doesn't eat cilantro on almost a daily basis. Also 

it doesn't seem to be a traditional taboo item either. I have had 

some contact with the gals who work for the lead poisoning department 

and they have said nothing about this, their biggest concerns being 

more to do with old buildings that have dust of lead based paint, 

imports that have lead based paint (window blinds from China for 

instance), ceramic dishes and containers that have lead in them , 

folk use of an old allopathic medicine lead powder. I realize that 

this is not all heavy metals but an example of one.

Sharon in Tucson



From GerstenbergerA.aol.com Fri Oct 11 01:47:44 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Agrimony

From: GerstenbergerA.aol.com

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:47:44 EDT



Hey! I say uh-GRIH-muh-nee, too (same reason) and always get teased, but 

then, I also say pee-OH-nee instead of PEE-uh-nee, because my friend does.

What's in a name?



In a message dated 10/8/02 7:48:09 PM, multiflorum.hotmail.com writes:



>Well... first of all, I say uh-GRIH-muh-nee (like "Jiminy" cricket!) and

>not 

>A-grih-MOE-nee... but that's just cause when I learned the name I 

>mispronouced it, and when I learned how other people say it, I decided

>I 

>liked my mispronunciation better.



From oaksong.peak.org Fri Oct 11 02:30:10 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Agrimony

From: margi <oaksong.peak.org>

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:30:10 -0700



I say el-a-CAMP-a-nay.  I heard someone pronounce it that way once and I liked

it.  Most folks say el-a-cam-PANE.



~Margi



GerstenbergerA.aol.com wrote:



> Hey! I say uh-GRIH-muh-nee, too (same reason) and always get teased, but

> then, I also say pee-OH-nee instead of PEE-uh-nee, because my friend does.

> What's in a name?



From providence.cbn.net.id Fri Oct 11 14:27:50 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Need Help : Parameria Laevigata & Jatropha Curcas

From: "Providence" <providence.cbn.net.id>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:27:50 +0700



Dear All, 



Could you please anyone help me ?

I need the details of below plants : 

1) Parameria Laevigata (Juss.) Moldenke 

2) Jatropha Curcas 



Do they listed in British Pharmaceutical Codex, or British Herbal

Pharmacopoeia, or American Herbal Pharmacopoeia, or other big countries'

pharmacopoeia?

For your information, in Indonesia, we used the bark (of Parameria

Laevigata) and the leaves (of Jatropha Curcas) for medicinal herbs. But

I need confirm them also listed in big countries' herbal pharmacopoeia. 



Please share with me if you have the information . I need their details

urgently .. 

Please send email directly to : providence.cbn.net.id



Thanks a bunch for your kind help !! Looking forward to hearing from

you. 



Best regards,

Reggie



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Mon Oct 14 19:29:52 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Need Help : Parameria Laevigata & Jatropha Curcas

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:29:52 +0300



"Providence" <providence.cbn.net.id> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> I need the details of below plants : 

> 1) Parameria Laevigata (Juss.) Moldenke 

> 2) Jatropha Curcas 



You'll find Jatropha curcas (Curcas purgans) in King's dispensatory:

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic/kings/curcas-purg.html



I've never heard of Parameria laevigata. Perhaps you can dig out older latin

names for it?



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From mterry.snet.net Mon Oct 14 20:23:16 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Need Help : Parameria Laevigata & Jatropha Curcas

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:23:16 -0400



I got curious, and did a search for P. laevigata, and found a Chinese synonym,

chang jie zhu, as well as Parameria barbata (Blume), Parsonsia barbata Blume -

Apocynaceae (dogbane) family,  and Aegiphila laevigata Juss - Verbenaceae.  You

can click on this page for a drawing:



http://mobot.mobot.org/W3T/Search/image/iix247.html



The 'basionym' or preferred name (a new word for me) is listed on that site as

Aegiphila laevigata Juss.



May



Henriette Kress wrote:



> I've never heard of Parameria laevigata. Perhaps you can dig out older latin

> names for it?



--

It's only the giving that makes you what you are.  ---Ian Anderson



From macphee.net1plus.com Mon Oct 14 20:30:33 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Need Help : Parameria Laevigata & Jatropha Curcas

From: "Joanie" <macphee.net1plus.com>

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:30:33 -0400



hmmm...I did not receive the original post, but

this (Parameria laevigata) seems to be an Asian species in the dogbane

family, named by Moldenke, so it *may* be written about in his book about

Herbs of the Bible (I am assuming that this is the same Moldenke), but that

is just a guess...will check if I have a chance.



only synonym I find is similar

       Parameria laevigata (Juss.) Moldenke   [Syn. P. barbata (Bl.) Schum.]



image (drawing)

http://mobot.mobot.org/cgi-bin/search_vast?w3till=01806118_001.gif



A google search yields a couple of dozen hits, but most in another language

and script.

I doubt if this example will come through, but will try:

???????? Parameria laevigata



Joanie



> I've never heard of Parameria laevigata. Perhaps you can dig out older

latin

> names for it?

>

> Henriette



From macphee.net1plus.com Mon Oct 14 20:54:30 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Need Help : Parameria Laevigata & Jatropha Curcas

From: "Joanie" <macphee.net1plus.com>

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:54:30 -0400



never mind, Moldenke does not write about it there.

and the script I tried to send did not come through.

Still more sources to look through, but not now.

Sorry, I skipped over the name may brought up in the Verbena family...I

found even less on that one so rather ignored it.  Basionym I take as

basename...name used when first described.  But I am mere amateur, in it for

love of it.  Joanie



> this (Parameria laevigata) seems to be an Asian species in the dogbane

> family, named by Moldenke, so it *may* be written about in his book about

> Herbs of the Bible (I am assuming that this is the same Moldenke), but

that

> is just a guess...will check if I have a chance.

> ???????? Parameria laevigata



From mt_turtle.email.com Fri Oct 11 19:17:46 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re:Boiling Garlic

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:17:46 +0900



One thing we should all be aware of is that heating garlic changes it's medicinal value.  Many chemicals convert to something else when heated.

KB



From mt_turtle.email.com Fri Oct 11 19:19:35 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] RE:Dangers of Botulism

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:19:35 +0900



Stomcahe acids and bowel flora are very different in a breast fed infant than in an infant fed other foods.  

KB



From dpotocki.erols.com Fri Oct 11 19:30:58 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: Honey in infants--botulism

From: Donna Potocki <dpotocki.erols.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:30:58 -0400



I have read that the danger lies in raw honey, not pasteurized honey. However, is

the pasteurized honey as beneficial in general?



Also, regarding a recent post on menthes being ingested by nursing mothers, I seem

to remember a caution about the mints being potentially damaging to the gall

bladders (?) of young children. Henriette???



Please, correct me if I am wrong. Just replaced my hard disk and have lost most of

my posts from 2002. Much of my personal memory lay on the old disk! :-)



Donna



Henriette wrote:



> Infants do not have stomach acid. Therefore, they can't kill botulism spores.

> Therefore, honey is dangerous for kids under, say, 1 year. Older than that, no

> trouble.

>



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Fri Oct 11 23:02:22 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: Honey in infants--botulism

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:02:22 +0300



Donna Potocki <dpotocki.erols.com> wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:



> Also, regarding a recent post on menthes being ingested by nursing mothers, I seem

> to remember a caution about the mints being potentially damaging to the gall

> bladders (?) of young children. 



Until they have a gallbladder infants can't handle menthol. So don't give any of

the real mints (Mentha spp.) to kids under 1 or 2 years.



I don't know if menthol comes through in milk.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From mt_turtle.email.com Fri Oct 11 20:00:27 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: How long is long? was long list

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 02:00:27 +0900



Length depends on which herb, and condition of the body you are using it on.  Animals react differentlt than humans, Children and elderly react differently than adults, and those with pre-existing constitional issues react differently than the healthy and robust.



I personally would not be concerned about using comfrey for 2 or 3 weeks after surgery or other injury to assist healing but would not go much longer than that.  This IS assuming and otherwise healthy adult human with no preexisting contraindications such as impaired liver function (Hep C, cirrohsis, etc.)  For a 45 year old woman on birth control pills and taking NSAID's for arthritis, I would be leary, as liver function is probably already impaired.

KB



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Sun Oct 13 01:36:00 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Borago and PAs

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:36:00 +0100



Is the PA count of Borago anything to really be worried about? Is it an

academic thing or has anyone ever been compromised by taking it?



Thanks,

Namh



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Sun Oct 13 03:47:35 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Borago and PAs

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:47:35 -0500



I believe the risk is theoretical. As far as I know, the only cases of

actual liver damage conclusively linked to the herb (not necessarily borage,

but *an* herb which contains PAs) have been through the isolated PAs, and

not the herb in its whole form.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



Is the PA count of Borago anything to really be worried about? Is it an

academic thing or has anyone ever been compromised by taking it?



From tmueller.bluegrass.net Wed Oct 16 07:53:04 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Borago and PAs

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller.bluegrass.net>

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:53:04 -0400 (EDT)



> Is the PA count of Borago anything to really be worried about? Is it an

> academic thing or has anyone ever been compromised by taking it?



> Thanks,

> Namh



I remember from my days with CompuServe, which ended in late August 1997, one

person knowledgeable about herbs stated that borage and coltsfoot didn't have

enough PAs to cause problems, but comfrey could pose a hazard.  Nothing was

said about other PA herbs such as Petasites (butterbur) or senecio.  I'd be

nervous about using Petasites.



From plantpeople.triton.net Sun Oct 13 05:35:14 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] coco buzz

From: Joyce Wardwell <plantpeople.triton.net>

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:35:14 -0400



>"Cocoa Buzz". Simply combine about a spoonful of unsweetened, >organic Cocoa powder, A spoonful of Wildflower Honey, and a squirt >or two of Propolis tincture. 



What is the menstruum and methodoloy?  Sounds like you are mixing coco, honey and propolis with no water and serving neat, so to speak, on the spoon - or do you refer to traditional hot cocoa drink froth in boiling water?  



>The tincture (I do 1:4, 95%) can also be taken straight, and will >even provide a little coating on the sore if layered on.



Posted after sharing the info on coco, so am a bit confused - coco is made into tincture?  Or refer to previous about mouth sores?  Either way, won't wait for a sore throat to try this one....



JocyeW



Every great Oak Tree, was once just a nut, that stood its ground



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Sun Oct 13 18:14:09 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] coco buzz

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:14:09 -0400



> >"Cocoa Buzz". Simply combine about a spoonful of unsweetened, >organic 

>Cocoa powder, A spoonful of Wildflower Honey, and a squirt >or two of 

>Propolis tincture.

>

>What is the menstruum and methodoloy?  Sounds like you are mixing coco, 

>honey and propolis with no water and serving neat, so to speak, on the 

>spoon - or do you refer to traditional hot cocoa drink froth in boiling 

>water?



ah, yes... the cup of hot water... that certainly makes it easier to 

swallow, though the whole gooey mess does taste good off the spoon.  

Actually, I always mix the ingredients into the water as I make it... I 

tried making a bunch to have around that I could just spoon into a mug of 

water, and it was so viscous it was nearly impossible to work with (though, 

again, cleaning the spoon -and the bowl- off wasn't so bad...



There are a lot of admixtures to make this Cocoa even more interesting.  You 

can leave out the Propolis for a "dark chocolate" flavor.  A pinch of 

Cayenne or other chili is traditional, and adds a nice kick... Nutmeg can 

also be nice.  Orange zest can be nice.  Blackberry honey is nice.  

Raspberry Brandy can be REALLY nice.  Limited only by the imagination.



Dale Pendell just released a book called Pharmakodynamis that has two 

chapters on the botany, history, pharmacology & "essence" of chocolate, in 

all of its many forms, which is quite fascinating, for those interested.



> >The tincture (I do 1:4, 95%) can also be taken straight, and will >even 

>provide a little coating on the sore if layered on.



1:4, 95% - Propolis.  I got this ratio from Stephen Buhner's Sacred & Herbal 

Healing Beers, which has excellent info on Propolis.  He actually says that 

the tincture is then cut 50/50 with water, but I can't imagine why.  I'd 

also guess you could retincture the propolis at least one more time, by the 

smell of it after the tincture is strained off.  Works GREAT.



From sc62.charter.net Sun Oct 13 16:55:43 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Dried herbs worthless

From: "Sandra Cochrane" <sc62.charter.net>

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:55:43 -0400



Hi,

It was recently brought to my attention that some or many herbs are

literally worthless after being dried, i.e., St. John's Wort, Valerian Root,

and Skullcap being mentioned. I have also read that Pokeroot loses it's

potency the day it is picked. If this is true, are there any others? I agree

that the fresh is always, or mostly always better, but for those of us who

have to rely on the dried, is there a list somewhere that explains which to

buy dried, and which, not?

Thank you.

Sandra



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Sun Oct 13 17:06:33 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Dried herbs worthless

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:06:33 -0500



Valerian certainly isn't worthless when dried, and most roots are also fine.

In addition to St. John's wort, I'd also add chickweed and lemon balm to the

list. However, I've had success tincturing dried St. John's wort, as well as

skullcap. I imagine it's that the alcohol is better at drawing out the

properties than oil is. With alcohol, my dried SJW tincture still comes out

a lovely red/brown, and my skullcap is certainly still potent.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----

Hi,

It was recently brought to my attention that some or many herbs are

literally worthless after being dried, i.e., St. John's Wort, Valerian Root,

and Skullcap being mentioned. I have also read that Pokeroot loses it's

potency the day it is picked. If this is true, are there any others?



From carlton.midrivers.com Sun Oct 13 19:22:10 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Dried herbs worthless

From: "Aliceann or Scott" <carlton.midrivers.com>

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:22:10 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)



Subject: [Herb] Dried herbs worthless



Hi,

It was recently brought to my attention that some or many herbs are

literally worthless after being dried, i.e., St. John's Wort, Valerian Root,

and Skullcap being mentioned. 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



I guess this is a matter of what worthless means.  We have always kept mints

 dill, lemon balm, St. Johnswort, and other aromatic type herbs intact on

the stems until we use them for formulas or cooking.  Where I grew up the

mint was hung upside down in paper bags in the attic for the winter.  We

never had a loss of pungency or "mintiness" during that time.  I think to

some extent we are looking for the American style "get the most punch for

the buck"  idea here.  In my experience, herbs properly stored intact do not

lose their efficacy over a year for arial parts and over two years for

root/bark parts.  Of course some of the volatile oils want to evaporate into

the ether layer.....that's why they address ether tissues and disorders. 

Some herbs just plain oxidize. You can generally tell by handling the herb

as to what its potency and latent energy is....small, color, brittleness

without release of aroma etc.....



For plants like chickweed and jewelweed fresh is best.  That's quick to know

too when you handle them in the wild.....they aren't very lifelike when they

have died back for the winter.  



For those who feed dried hay to livestock, it becomes quickly apparent how

fresh and potent the grasses are by looking at the bales and breaking them

open to feed out.  The stock certainly know and will usually head for the 

best" of the hay types depending upon species.  One year old hay is good if

stored right.  Two year old hay generally takes greater quatity and

supplementation to maintain good energy and health.



Best Regards,

Aliceann



From tmueller.bluegrass.net Wed Oct 16 07:53:02 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Dried herbs worthless

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller.bluegrass.net>

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:53:02 -0400 (EDT)



Lemon balm would be my leading nominee for worthless dried herb, but 

Aliceann's practice of leaving the leaves on the stems intact may preserve some

life, however this is much more difficult to handle for commercial purposes.

But then cut/sifted dried lemon balm is not worth handling.



I've eaten chickweed both raw and cooked, only fresh, didn't really notice

medicinal effect, though it was probably very good nutritionally.  So I

wouldn't expect anything worthwhile from dried chickweed.



I had some dried skullcap in 1996 that didn't really do anything for me: could

be either loss of strength or my inability to respond.



From mt_turtle.email.com Mon Oct 14 22:13:25 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Dried herbs worthless

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:13:25 +0900



Most herbs will hold from harvest season to harvest season if properly stored, but some herbs don't hold their medicinal properties for long after drying no matter what you do.  That is why some are better held in alcohol, glycerin, oil, or vinegar, etc.



Lemon Balm, Shepard's purse, Skullcap, and  are almost inert 8 to 12 weeks after drying. St. John'swort is another one that should be tinctured as soon as possible.   You may choose to have the herbs dried at point of harvest to prevent mold, etc. during shipping, but they should be tinctured as soon as possible after receiving.



Valerian root not powdered is potent yeeeeears after drying - just different.  A small percentage of folks will be hyper rather than calmed by products made from dry valerian root.  Best tincture from fresh root to avoid this.   But for most, dry root tincture is just fine.

KB



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Mon Oct 14 22:26:49 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Dried herbs worthless

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:26:49 -0500



I thought this was simply a characteristic of valerian, and not necessarily

related to storage method. Is there some sort of chemical change that takes

place when it's dried?



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



Valerian root not powdered is potent yeeeeears after drying - just

different.  A small percentage of folks will be hyper rather than calmed by

products made from dry valerian root.  Best tincture from fresh root to

avoid this.   But for most, dry root tincture is just fine.



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Mon Oct 14 23:44:10 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Spotted Knapweed

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:44:10 -0400



Anyone know any good uses for Spotted Knapweed (centuarea maculosa)?



The plant is bitter & astringent, and the leaves can be poulticed on

cuts, but perhaps it has some greater pharmacopial niche that would

prove beneficial for those of us trying to keep it from taking over our

meadows.  Its native to Europe, and I assume it must have some

traditional uses, though I've not seen any specifically for this

species.  Greive's Modern Herbal has some info on other Centaureas

(bitter astringent vulneraries), but any other information (especially

first hand) would be great



From mwherbs.dshome.net Tue Oct 15 00:43:48 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: Need Help : Parameria Laevigata & Jatropha Curcas

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs.dshome.net>

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:43:48 -0700



Indonesian Apocynaceae- Parameria Laevigata I don't have any 

medicinal use info but here it is keyed out for identifying --



http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:4nfPzUex-uEC:www.arbec.com.my/pdf/art5julysep02.pdf+Parameria+Laevigata&hl=en&ie=UTF-8



it is also listed on this botanical supplier list- with a common name 

of kayu rapat

  http://www.haldin-natural.com/botanical/index.asp?offset=20



From elfreem.aol.com Sun Oct 20 21:45:34 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] capsicum plaster

From: elfreem.aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:45:34 -0400



Listers might be interested in a study involving capsicum plaster that will appear in my November issue for hospitals around the country: 



For patients undergoing abdominal hysterectomy, postoperative nausea and vomiting occurs as often as 90%. Non-pharmacologic approaches, such as acupressure of the Chinese P6 and the Korean K-K9 points, have been evaluated as alternatives to antiemetics. Kim et al compared the effects of capsicum plaster and placebo tape on the Korean K-D2 point, along with capsicum plaster at the P6 point. Capsicum plaster was 

applied before the induction of anesthesia and removed 8 hours after surgery. PONV occurred significantly less often in the K-D2 and P6 groups (22% and 26% respectively) compared with the control group (56.7%) 24 hours after surgery (P < .001). In addition, the need for rescue antiemetics was significantly less in the treatment groups compared with controls (P < .001). Capsicum plaster appears to be a simple, inexpensive and effective method for reducing the frequency of PONV. 

Further study is desirable to determine if the effects of capsicum plaster is additive when used along with pharmacotherapy or whether the use of capsicum plaster in combination with drugs, such as ondansetron, can provide similar results with reduced drug dosage. 

Kim KS. Anesthesia Analgesia 2002;95:1103-7



Most herbalists are familiar with some of the actions of capsicum locally and internally; however, I was impressed with the above study because it combined several alternative modalities, herbalism and acupressure. 



After reading some of the classic writings of the ecelectics from Henriette's web site, I was impressed with the various uses of capsicum. For example, Felter writes "a mixture of capsicum, vinegar, and salt will sometimes prove a good antiemetic if given in small doses diluted with cold water." That was news to me.



Also, "Capsicum is of very great value in alcoholic delirium. If secretions are suppressed and food can not be taken, or if sleep can not be induced in delirium tremens, one faces an extremely dangerous and perhaps fatal issue. But if secretions can be re-established and food be retained, sleep is very apt to follow. Then the battle against death is won. For this purpose no agent will accomplish so much as capsicum...."



I am contemplating whether to include the above information in the article, since few allopaths are familiar with using anything other than a benzodiazepine (Ativan, Librium, Valium, etc) for alcohol withdrawal/delirium and the fact that an herb may be useful in acute situations.



Does anyone have any additional information on the use of capsicum for nausea/vomiting or other acute situation?



Please cc to "elfreem.aol.com" as I do not always have time to 

read the list every day.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh

The Shared Newsletter

Member, Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists



From polo.ccp.com Sun Oct 20 22:08:55 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] capsicum plaster

From: "d.a." <polo.ccp.com>

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:08:55 -0500



Elliot,



    I suggest you read Sam Biser's work " Curing with Cayenne" (1999) where

he showcases the medical philosophies of Dr. Richard Schulze and Dr. John

Christopher. You have only touched on a small part of the amazing properties

of capsicum. When used in conjunction with many herbs, it amplifies the

affects of the primary herb. Likewise, it can bring coronary victims back to

normalcy, stimulate the regaining of sight in the blind, help in the removal

of cataracts, stop internal/external hemorrhaging, etc, etc.



    I have long been a big fan of counter-irritation in the form of

plasters, light blisters, liniments, etc. It is one major way to stimulate

the immune system in a localized area. This stimulating effect has long been

undervalued,if not down right ignored.



indeed, perhaps our most valuable herb,



doug



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Sun Oct 20 23:55:08 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] capsicum plaster

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:55:08 +0100



Although I didn't know of its anti-emetic effect, I didn't vomit when having

my last baby, unheard of for me and all the women in my family! I was taking

5 drops (1:3) in a strong tea frequently during labour. Another thought is

the historical combination of Capsicum and Lobelia, maybe this is another of

their opposing effects married.



Interesting! Thanks, and could you please enlarge on the Korean points you

talked about for us ignorami and also how was the plaster prepared?



Namh



From mterry.snet.net Mon Oct 21 00:07:45 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] capsicum plaster

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:07:45 -0400



elfreem.aol.com wrote:



> Also, "Capsicum is of very great value in alcoholic delirium. If secretions are suppressed and food can not be taken, or if sleep can not be induced in delirium tremens, one faces an extremely dangerous and perhaps fatal issue. But if secretions can be re-established and food be retained, sleep is very apt to follow. Then the battle against death is won. For this purpose no agent will accomplish so much as capsicum...."

>

> I am contemplating whether to include the above information in the article, since few allopaths are familiar with using anything other than a benzodiazepine (Ativan, Librium, Valium, etc) for alcohol withdrawal/delirium and the fact that an herb may be useful in acute situations.



I'm neither a doctor nor a practicing herbalist.  I would question, however, whether it would be wise to substitute anything during DTs for the customary drugs.  I have read various reports of fatality rate for untreated DTs, and at least one source gave the number as high as 40%.  I understand that you are not talking about *not* treating, but about herbal treatment.  And, of course, if medical professionals wanted to use capsicum in circumstances where they had conventional

drugs to fall back on, it might be well worth a try.



FWIW,

May

--

Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it's important.  ---Eugene McCarthy



From HerbalSW.aol.com Mon Oct 21 00:18:02 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] capsicum plaster

From: HerbalSW.aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:18:02 EDT



I am having a C-section in February.  I would assume these properties would 

apply to me as well?

Catherine



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From elementalclay.webtv.net Mon Oct 21 00:23:52 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] capsicum plaster

From: elementalclay.webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:23:52 -0500 (CDT)



  Just to add something to this discussion, I have a chihauhau that

occasionally gets seizures.  At the onset of her last one I gave her

about 1/2 tsp of apple cider vinegar infused with cayenne peppers.

  The seizure stopped immediately.

  Before I learned about this her seizures could last five minutes or

more.

Roxanne



Roxanne J. Brown

Elemental Clay

http://www.cloudnet.com/~elemclay/

"One does not learn by speaking"



From ask.gtii.com Mon Oct 21 18:52:41 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Salvia divinorum ?

From: "Richard M. Ask" <ask.gtii.com>

Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:52:41 -0500



Anyone have any info on this or internet locations

to find info on it ?



TIA



Richard



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue Oct 22 16:58:57 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Salvia divinorum ?

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:58:57 -0400



>Anyone have any info on this or internet locations

>to find info on it ?



Dale Pendell's book Pharmako/peia is probably the only written sources worth 

looking into.  Daniel Seibert's site, Sage Wisdom, has all of the 

"scholarly" information anybody could want, and also includes plenty of 

links eventually leading to stories about high school kids smoking Salvia 

while their parents are out of town and asking if anyone else has ever seen 

"the green spinner".  On a more substantial note, it includes a printout of 

Pendell's chapter on Salvia D.: http://www.sagewisdom.org.



Most of the people who I've met who are "into" this plant have never been 

able to integrate their fascinating experiences into practical wisdom with 

which to enrich their lives, which, I think, has a lot to do with the 

absence of a cultural structure and the place where Salvia D. fits into 

that.  Also, the indigenous people who have been the stewards of this plant 

(which, as a cultigen, has been propogated almost exclusively by the people 

who tend to it since time immemorial) consider it sacreligious to smoke it, 

and that is why they believe people who do this cannot understand the plant. 

  Traditionally, LOTS of very bitter leaves were chewed & sucked on.



Have fun!



From cyli.visi.com Tue Oct 22 19:28:12 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Salvia divinorum ?

From: "Cyli" <cyli.visi.com>

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:28:12 -0500



Mail message body



On 21 Oct 2002 at 10:52, Richard M. Ask wrote:



> Anyone have any info on this or internet locations

> to find info on it ?



At least one of the .drugs newsgroups should have lots on it.  Go to 



http://dejanews.com and check out the groups with drugs in the name 

for that herb and you should get a bunch about it.  



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Tue Oct 22 08:31:40 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Salvia divinorum ?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:31:40 +0300



"Cyli" <cyli.visi.com> wrote to herb.lists.ibiblio.org:

> On 21 Oct 2002 at 10:52, Richard M. Ask wrote:

> 

> > Anyone have any info on this or internet locations

> > to find info on it ?

> 

> At least one of the .drugs newsgroups should have lots on it.  Go to 

> 

> http://dejanews.com and check out the groups with drugs in the name 

> for that herb and you should get a bunch about it.  



It's http://groups.google.com these days. 



Also, if you want to participate in a newsgroup (or want to read your usenet

newsgroups offline, or want an easy way to skip boring threads, or ...) an ISP

with a newsserver is a far better idea than googlegroups. Try

news:alt.drugs.salvia for starters.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From sc62.charter.net Wed Oct 23 00:25:51 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] dried herbs  tinctures

From: "Sandra Cochrane" <sc62.charter.net>

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:25:51 -0400



I can't figure out the ratio of tincturing dried herbs such as slippery elm,

or mullein leaves,(not powdered), that are so light and fluffy, that when I

put the required 4 ounces to a pint, they fill up the entire jar. I can't

powder them even with the vita-mix.There is no room left for the alcohol. In

fact, with these two herbs, I can't even fit 4 oz. all in the jar. Why is

this, and what is the solution?

 Thanks. Sandra



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Wed Oct 23 02:53:10 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] dried herbs  tinctures

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 02:53:10 +0300



"Sandra Cochrane" <sc62.charter.net> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> I can't figure out the ratio of tincturing dried herbs such as slippery elm,

> or mullein leaves,(not powdered), that are so light and fluffy, that when I

> put the required 4 ounces to a pint, they fill up the entire jar. I can't

> powder them even with the vita-mix.There is no room left for the alcohol. In

> fact, with these two herbs, I can't even fit 4 oz. all in the jar. Why is

> this, and what is the solution?



You should not tincture things like slippery elm, linseed, mallow root, or any

other herbs that depend on mucilage for their action. You won't get mucilage out

of a tincture, as alcohol splits it into simple carbs; therefore, it's a waste

of both herb and alcohol.



Next, you have a pint of herb that weighs less than an ounce? 1:5 is the usual

ratio for dried herb, that's 1 part (by weight) of herb to 5 parts (by volume)

of menstruum.



And I don't think I've ever powdered any herb I've tinctured by maceration. Cut

them up into nice-sized chunks, that's enough, both for dried and for fresh herb

tinctures (fresh at 1:2 95 %).



I powder herbs I tincture by percolation, and in percolation volume is of no

consequence at all... as long as you don't pack it so tightly that you split

your percolator. Which again is no risk if you use a recyclable plastic bottle

as raw material for said percolator. (Most all of our lemonade etc. bottles,

mostly plastic these days, are recyclable, which means they have to be

_sturdy_.) These bottles have the additional advantage of screwtops, and they

come in sizes up to 1.5 or sometimes even 2 liters.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Wed Oct 23 03:21:22 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] dried herbs  tinctures

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:22 -0500



Okay, let's suppose it's a non-mucilagenous herb that happens to be very

lightweight when dried. Skullcap comes to mind (yeah, yeah, skullcap's

useless when dried, yada yada). What do you do when 5 oz. of skullcap

(powdered, no less) still is too much for 25 oz. of menstruum? Is it better

to do less herb or to have a big clump of herb that's impossible to shake

up?



Also, are mucilagenous herbs successfully extracted as a glycerite? My

cherry bark/mullein glycerite is one of my most popular tinctures, and I'd

hate to think the mullein has been just a big waste of space all these

years.



Kerry



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Wed Oct 23 03:38:00 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] dried herbs  tinctures

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:38:00 +0300



"Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



> Okay, let's suppose it's a non-mucilagenous herb that happens to be very

> lightweight when dried. Skullcap comes to mind (yeah, yeah, skullcap's

> useless when dried, yada yada). What do you do when 5 oz. of skullcap

> (powdered, no less) still is too much for 25 oz. of menstruum? Is it better

> to do less herb or to have a big clump of herb that's impossible to shake

> up?



Percolate. 



Or use fresh herb. 



Or use the simpler's rule and forget about fancy ratios: stuff the jar full of

herb, cover with alcohol, close lid and let sit for 2-4 weeks. That simpler's

rule is a joy to apply to fresh oat in milky seed.



> Also, are mucilagenous herbs successfully extracted as a glycerite? My

> cherry bark/mullein glycerite is one of my most popular tinctures, and I'd

> hate to think the mullein has been just a big waste of space all these

> years.



Sorry, I don't do glycerites. I do tinctures, teas, oils, syrups, salves,

sometimes capsules, but _no_ glycerites. Nor do I feel a hankering to start

using them; I think their sickly sweet taste is simply ghastly.



Mullein a mucilaginous herb? I don't see it as such. It's a nice scroph family

anti-inflammatory, along with plants like Veronica and Scrophularia. Mullein has

an affinity for the lungs, either as a tea or smoked (if you smoke, that is).

Smoked... therefore, that particular effect cannot be due to any mucilage. Also,

mullein tops can sometimes help incontinence, but mullein root is pretty

specific for that - it strengthens the trigone of the bladder, and there's not

much to choose from for that particular action.

Anyway, for heavier mullein, forget the leaf and instead use all you can get off

the flowerstalk.



Now, _slippery elm_ is mucilaginous.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Wed Oct 23 15:19:04 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] SJW while nursing

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:19:04 -0400



Hello



Does anyone have anyexperience or information regarding this?



I tend to think that warnings regarding problems with SJW arw

unfounded(except for with MAO inhibitors)



I am nursing my baby and have some issues that are specific to SJW(nerve

pain due to injury, tendency twards slight depression in darker seasons)



I made some lovely blood red tincture that I would love to dip into...



Michelle



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Wed Oct 23 15:59:13 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] SJW while nursing

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 07:59:13 -0500



Breastfeeding experts who have a background in allopathic medicine and

pharmacology tend to lean towards discouraging its use, but not because of a

belief that it's harmful, but because there isn't much research on this herb

WRT nursing women. But knowing that these same experts say that nursing is

not contraindicated if you are taking Depakote or Lithium, I find it highly

unbelievable that they would discourage the use of a benign little herb like

St. John's Wort. So I can only surmise that their recommendations are based

purely on fear of the unknown, and a skepticism/distrust of herbs in

general. Both Zoloft and Paxil are absolutely approved by these experts

while nursing, and knowing what I know about SJW I simply don't believe that

its effects would be any greater on the nursling than that of those

antidepressent meds. Of course, if your baby is under a month of age, I try

to discourage the mom from taking *anything* since so much more of the

drug/herb goes through to the baby's bloodstream in the immediate postpartum

period. The Commission E states that there is no contraindication while

breastfeeding. Anecdotally, I know of many mothers who have taken this herb

while nursing with no untoward effects.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



Hello



Does anyone have anyexperience or information regarding this?



I tend to think that warnings regarding problems with SJW arw

unfounded(except for with MAO inhibitors)



I am nursing my baby and have some issues that are specific to SJW(nerve

pain due to injury, tendency twards slight depression in darker seasons)



I made some lovely blood red tincture that I would love to dip into...



Michelle



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed Oct 23 17:08:10 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] percolation cones

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:08:10 -0400



>(Most all of our lemonade etc. bottles,

>mostly plastic these days, are recyclable, which means they have to be

>_sturdy_.) These bottles have the additional advantage of screwtops, and 

>they



I don't think I'd ever use a juice bottle as a percolator, as you -will- 

extract some of the plastic into your tincture (if you drink bottled water, 

surely you've been able to taste the plastic in it, juice bottles are, I 

believe the same grade of plastic).  I'm not sure what "number" or grade it 

is, but I only use plastic Vodka bottles as percolators, as they're made 

with a much denser plastic, and they're specially made for alcohol anyway.  

I also, on account of my disdain for plastic, use a cork rather than a 

bottle cap for the end of my percolator, which (I think) is what is 

described in King's Disp.  Corks are, admittedly, occasionally very 

difficult to work with, but experience yeilds familiarity.



... and yeah, I know... all this goes into a bottle with a rubber dropper.  

Oh well.



From sc62.charter.net Wed Oct 23 21:03:35 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Tincture Ratio

From: "Sandra Cochrane" <sc62.charter.net>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:03:35 -0400



I know I must sound so thick, because I just don't get it.

  I know that ounces in weight is not the same as ounces in volume, and

therein lies my hang-up. If they were the same, there would be no problem.

Could you please, just this once, break down the 1:5 ratio into numbers

ounces for me? Like a cooking recipe?

 For example, if I am using 4 ounces of dried herb by weight, how much would

the :5 part in volume be in ounces?

How many ounces of liquid would that be?

 If I could get the answer to this in numbers instead of parts, I think it

would help me to understand the whole principle between weight and volume.

Thank you.



From jclarke1.mn.rr.com Wed Oct 23 21:10:39 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [Herb] Tincture Ratio

From: "Kerry & Jack" <jclarke1.mn.rr.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:10:39 -0500



If you are using 4 oz. of dried herb, then you would use approximately 20

oz. of menstruum (by volume). Technically you're supposed to do it

grams:milliliters, instead of oz:oz but it comes out to be so close anyway,

I prefer to use oz. since that's what I'm used to.



Kerry



-----Original Message-----



 For example, if I am using 4 ounces of dried herb by weight, how much would

the :5 part in volume be in ounces?

How many ounces of liquid would that be?

 If I could get the answer to this in numbers instead of parts, I think it

would help me to understand the whole principle between weight and volume.

Thank you.



From hetta.saunalahti.fi Wed Oct 23 21:59:16 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Tincture Ratio

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.saunalahti.fi>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:59:16 +0300



"Sandra Cochrane" <sc62.charter.net> wrote to <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>:



>  For example, if I am using 4 ounces of dried herb by weight, how much would

> the :5 part in volume be in ounces?



4 x 5 = 20



> How many ounces of liquid would that be?



20



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 30 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From sc62.charter.net Wed Oct 23 21:09:40 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Grades of plastic numbers

From: "Sandra Cochrane" <sc62.charter.net>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:09:40 -0400



The number on the bottom of my McCormick's vodka plastic bottle is 1. The

majority of numbers I have seen till now have been 3, bottled water, etc.

The lower the number the better the quality of plastic.



From rochelle.ntlworld.com Wed Oct 23 22:01:32 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Black Cohosh

From: "rochelle" <rochelle.ntlworld.com>

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:01:32 +0100



I have had 2 enquiries whether it is safe to use Black Cohosh for hot

flushes when the patient has High Blood Pressure. Anyone have a definitive

answer?



Thanks

Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Thu Oct 24 21:55:45 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Black Cohosh

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:55:45 +0100



Far as I know it's Safe, but side effects are headache and nausea, so go

easy at first.

Namh



From retlawtrauts.webtv.net Thu Oct 24 15:43:26 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Blood Veins & Herbs

From: retlawtrauts.webtv.net (Walter Stuart)

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 07:43:26 -0500 (CDT)



Are there any herbs that will desolve the cholestrol build up in veins. 



Walter



http://community.webtv.net/retlawtrauts/OwnYourOwnIslandA



Can you add to this:

http://community.webtv.net/retlawtrauts/OldTymeHealth



From GerstenbergerA.aol.com Thu Oct 24 21:59:43 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Blood Veins & Herbs

From: GerstenbergerA.aol.com

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:59:43 EDT



Herbs and foods high in soluble fiber help to reduce plaques or build up of 

cholesterol and other debris in arteries. That would include oats, you could 

use milk oats tea, but I'd just go with slow cookin' oatmeal 2-3 times a 

week, and plantain seeds (psyllium) sprinkled on top.



Happy Halloween!

AG



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Thu Oct 24 21:54:13 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Blood Veins & Herbs

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:54:13 +0100



Garlic, Turmeric, Guggulu, off the top of my head lower cholesterol ratios.

Be careful of blood thinning meds with herbs though.

Namh



From niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Thu Oct 24 21:47:28 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] sjw while nursing

From: "Niamh" <niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:47:28 +0100



Michelle,



if you are worried, why not start with alternatives to SJW and see what

happens before resorting to it? Then you could bypass unnecessary worry that

mi8ght be counterproductive. Thing is, noone can tell you that it doesn't

penetrate milk or won't make its way into your baby, even if these effects

are still benign. For example, you could use vervain as a nervine and

galactagogue together for you and your baby; use SJW oil topically on your

nerve pain or even take a homeopathic preparation which is excellant for

nerve pain; and get special light bulbs to help with the SAD. Then next year

when you probly won't be breastfeeding, you could use SJW. Dr Hale that we

spoke of earlier in the discussions on breastfeeding is conducting research

into the passage of SJW into milk. Till then...

Namh



From plantpeople.triton.net Thu Oct 24 23:42:42 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] conversions

From: Joyce Wardwell <plantpeople.triton.net>

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:42:42 -0400 (EDT)



>I know that ounces in weight is not the same as ounces in volume, and

>therein lies my hang-up. If they were the same, there would be no >problem. Could you please, just this once, break down the 1:5 ratio >into numbers ounces for me? Like a cooking recipe?



The simplest solution is simply to go metric.  Math is my nemesis and the mathematics of fluid ounces and volume ounces and ratios was way too much equationizing for my small brain.



BUT with metric: 

1 gram = 1 ml = 1 cc  (of water - alcohol fits also)

This is so elegant.  There is no conversion.  Even I can figure it out.



So buy a couple metric beakers and graduated cylinders.  Get a metric scale (will run you about $20.00 total if you get them on ebay).  Start using it and in no time at all you will fell comforatble with it.  Heck you can even get a scale that converts grams to ounces - so can convert your grams back to ounces for the other folks that insist on using one of the most difficult measuring systems ever cobbled together.

Peace NOW - not one man's twisted version of global prosperity

JoyceW



Every great Oak Tree, was once just a nut, that stood its ground



From mt_turtle.email.com Fri Oct 25 22:43:12 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re:  conversions

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 04:43:12 +0900



an easy way to measure one fluid ounce (for small amounts) is to use a shot glass.  The standard shoot glass is one fluid ounce.



From mt_turtle.email.com Fri Oct 25 22:57:46 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re:plastic & pering

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 04:57:46 +0900



Color is an indication of composition.  Those clear glass like (PET) bottles leach more chemials that have estrogenic effect on the body.  The milky bootles are safer.  No plastic is better.  I try to use plastic only when necessary (IV tubing -O.K.,  wrapping leftovers - not)



I used the suggestion frr notes on Michale Moore's site and had the bottoms cut off a couple of those green sprkling water bottles, then sanded them smooth.  They make woooonderful perculation funnels, 'cause they have smooth sloping shoulders but glass fruit juice bottles would work too.

KB 



From irenalucia.mybizz.net Sun Oct 27 05:36:28 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] canker sores

From: "Irene L. Bednarski" <irenalucia.mybizz.net>

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:36:28 -0400



I study herbs, supplements and pharmaceuticals. I used to be bothered by

mouth and cankersores and still occasionally do. Chocolate(cocoa) and nuts

are especially high in the amino acid arginine.  Cut down on these foods and

take lysine tablets and the mouth sores will go away.  It's an amino acid

imbalance.  Lemon balm would be great topically. 



From gaila.hoosierlink.com Wed Oct 30 02:26:11 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Pre-surgery suggestions?

From: "Gail" <gaila.hoosierlink.com>

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:26:11 -0600



I will be having a total thyroidectomey on Nov. 15 due to thyroid cancer.

Is there anything I can be doing ahead of time to speed up the healing

process, or to prepare my body for what is ahead?  Thanks in advance...



Gail



From mt_turtle.email.com Wed Oct 30 17:17:14 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re:canker sores

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 00:17:14 +0900



YOU WROTE:

<snip> Cut down on these foods and take lysine tablets and the mouth sores will go away.  It's an amino acid imbalance. <snip>



I ADD:

My eldest son was a picky eater when under age ten.  He lived on whole grain pancakes, potatoes, raw carrots, lettuce without dressing and mass quantities of peanut butter(which is low in lysine but high in other amino acids).  He had problems with mouth sores until he started taking a lysine supplement.  No more mouth sores.  After he started eating a wider range of foods the supplement was no longer necessary.

KB



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed Oct 30 21:55:03 2002

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] thoughts on asters

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:55:03 -0500



Since late summer, I've been looking into the medicinal use of various Aster 

species.  By simply walking through a meadow & plucking flowers, it soon 

became apparent that the more color the blossoms had, the more resinous and 

strongly scented they were as well.  Here is SE Michigan, the most abundant, 

stickiest & smelliest (in a good way) species is the New England Aster 

(aster novae-angliae), and that's what I've been working with.



I've  collected and dried several flowers and added them to some Tobacco 

(they're a traditional admixture), and discovered that they smooth out the 

flavor and harshness of the smoke.  They also (dare I say) seemed to add 

some effect that can only be vaguely described as "pyschoactive", though, to 

be clear,  I don't consider that term synonymous with "psychedelic".  A nice 

smoke...



I've also burned the dried blossoms on coals and inhaled the smoke, a native 

american use for treating headache, congestion, sinus irritation, confusion, 

and unconsciousness.  Again, their was a peculiar quality to it (perhaps one 

could say it clears the head?), but not being congested, or having sinus 

problems, I can't vouch for its effectiveness in those areas.  I've ruled 

out trying to intentionally give myself a headache to see if the smoke will 

releieve it, and haven't yet figured out how to inhale it when I'm sleeping 

to see if it wakes me up.  Burning the fresh blossoms of a paler colored 

Aster smelled, more than anything else, like chocolate cupcakes coming out 

of the oven, but didn't do any more than evoke childhood memories of grade 

school birthdays.



Both King's & Cook's Dispensatory's describe the roots of Aster Cordifolius 

as a sedative comparable to Valerian (they quote Rafinesque here), and this 

I find rather intriguing.  After nibbling the fresh blossoms while walking, 

I feel confident in verifying that the New England Aster, at least, 

certainly possesses a clearly discernable sedative effect.  Eating as few as 

4-5 flowers off the plant can facilitate this (which means don't eat the 

blossoms at the farthest point of your hike from where you started.... it'll 

seem like a long way back... though you could always lie down & look at the 

clouds...).



I plan to, in a couple of weeks when the plants totally die back for the 

season, gather some roots to test as well.  Hopefully I'll have a nice and 

easily obtainable nervine to add to my materia medica after this proving.  

I'd love to hear from anyone else whose interested in this plant's medicinal 

use, and would REALLY love a xerox of Rafinesque's entry on it, if anyone 

has it.



From brendam.lakefield.net Thu Oct 31 16:32:13 2002

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] long term herb usage

From: "brendam" <brendam.lakefield.net>

Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:32:13 -0500



I have been taking triphala for about a year now.  I know it is safe for

long time use, but should a person take a break from an herb every now and

then, or can a person take it indefinitely?  Or does it depend on the herb?

Thanks

Brenda



