From smokeplants@wildapache.net Sat May 05 23:41:27 1990

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] smoking, tobacco, and anxiety

From: "Mairi Ross" <smokeplants@wildapache.net>

Date: Sat, 5 May 1990 13:41:27 -0700



>Could tobacco help somebody not accustomed to tobacco to relax?



You might try some other plant besides Nicotiana tobacco.   I've

experimented with other "tobaccos" besides Nicotiana and found that smoking

them has been helpful for anxiety, especially acute anxiety/spinning out

and anxiety/obsessive attacks. I've used mixtures of Mullein (as a base)

with Skullcap, Hops, Damiana (just a little - makes some people cough), and

Passionflower as the anti-anxiety herbs, Manzanita for astringency and

balance..  (Howie Brounstein likes smoking Pedicularis for relaxation,

especially muscular).  Skullcap seems to be especially helpful for obsessive

anxiety.  Hops for insomnia. Smoke works faster than tinctures, though I've

used tinctures as backup.



My research indicates that over 150 plants have historically been smoked in

North America.  A Dine'/Navajo smoke herbalist and plant gatherer both say

that in the Dine' tradition ingesting plants heals the physical body while

smoking plants "heals the mind."   That has been my experience.



I agree with Jim that smoking anything is a "power" act, but there is Big

Power (higher danger potential) and Little Power.  Nicotiana is more Big

Power.  I do think that Nicotiana has physiologically addictive properties

that these other plants do not have.  I know several people who have used

non-Nicotiana mixtures (especially with a little Lobelia added) to stop

smoking cigarettes and marijuana.  I also think that smoking anything in the

cigarette form tends to speed people up, while smoking plants (even

Nicotiana) in a pipe tends to trigger the parasympathetic and slow people

down.  This is not just the plant being smoked, but the tangible handling of

the pouch, pipe, sitting down, having to focus, smoke slowly, etc. You just

can't smoke a pipe in the same "mode" as a cigarette.



Mairi Ross

Jerome, AZ



From rdorey@mtdata.com Sat Mar 01 01:45:17 2003

To: "herb list" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] foot injury:(

From: "Robin Dorey" <rdorey@mtdata.com>

Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:45:17 -0400



Hi all,



You were all so helpful a few weeks ago when I had bent my foot under me.

It was swollen and black and blue.  Well 4 weeks later it turns out to have

a fracture in the bone that comes down from my baby toe on the outside of my

foot.  They don't cast  these types of broken/fractures anymore.  Apparently

the healing process is the same and so to forgo the inconvenience of a cast

or whatever, I have nothing on my foot.  If there is still the "egg/bruise"

in 12 weeks, then surgery.  I have given my foot a severe talking to and

explained the time limit so am really hoping no surgery.:)Does anyone have

any other suggestions for me??  I was thinking of something internally.

Thanks for any help you can give me.  Robin



From mwherbs@cox.net Sat Mar 01 05:10:27 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Intro too! 2? II?

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:10:27 -0700



>Hi

>I have been on the list a few weeks and wanted to introduce myself as well.

>

>i'm in tucson, AZ, and considering pursuing my life long interest in 

>herbal medicine as a possible career. I'm looking into 

>taking/enrolling in an herbology course/school. I've looked at a few 

>schools, in Boulder , CO and SIlver City , NM. Also i'm interested 

>in hearing mre about Michael Moore's class in Bisbee. SInce it is 

>near by to me, it would be more convienent, but being only 5 months 

>i wonder how  the course was, how much was learned, absorbed, etc...

>i think i remember that one person, on this list has been in that 

>course, isthat true? if so, any info or advice ( from anyone) on the 

>class and or pursuing this as a career move would be GREATLY 

>appreciated.

>thanks so much!

>darcey blue

  Hello Darcey,

  I am in Tucson as well, to start with you could take a series from 

Pam Hyde Nakai, it is local, not that expensive and a good intro. She 

was one of M. Moore's students quite a while ago.

Sharon in Tucson

PS I think I am missing some posts because there is a stuck in Bisbee 

thread that has bits and pieces I have not seen before, just 

wondering what all I might be missing on the list.



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Sat Mar 01 14:51:05 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Intro too! 2? II?

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:51:05 -0500



>   I am in Tucson as well, to start with you could take a series from

> Pam Hyde Nakai, it is local, not that expensive and a good intro. She

> was one of M. Moore's students quite a while ago.



I took Pams class back in 1994 I think- she was teaching with Barbara

Klockevold(sp?) It was very informative- focused mostly on herbs of the

bioregion.



Michelle



From mwherbs@cox.net Sat Mar 01 17:14:51 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: blooms

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 08:14:51 -0700



It has been raining recently, and unseasonably warm before that so we 

have the local dock blooming canaigre , mustards, desert zinnia, 

little pink fairy dusters, brittle bush, desert senna,anil del 

Muerto, lantana, sweet meliot, greenthread, a few salmon colored 

flowers on the globe mallow, filaree, Mescal bean which has 

grape-scented purple flower clusters. I haven't seen any California 

poppies around Tucson, of corse there are all sorts of stuff people 

plant from nurseries like pansies and geraniums blooming around town.

sharon in tucson



From mwherbs@cox.net Sun Mar 02 03:25:42 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: blooms

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:25:42 -0700



Ok so it is rainy again here today and I can see it snowing on all 

the hills above us but here in the valley I took note of some more 

flowers - aloe vera, lantana, some of the cresote, jojoba, rosemary, 

purple ground cherry, a few penstemons, baileya.

sharon in tucson



From alaena@diamon-naturals.com Sat Mar 01 19:59:22 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] sauerkraut

From: "Alaena Diamon" <alaena@diamon-naturals.com>

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 11:59:22 -0600



Hi... I'm Alaena from Minnesota, new to the list.  Does anyone know of a

connection between sauerkraut and pain in the joints/muscles?  My left hand

is so painful, I can barely use my fingers... right hand mildly hurting, and

feet also hurting quite a lot.  We had sauerkraut last night for dinner...

and a few weeks ago I had the same problem, but don't remember if it

coincided with the sauerkraut!  Hubby thinks it's a major change in the

weather coming.  When I get this, it lasts a couple of days, getting

progressively less painful until it disappears.  I do have arthritis that

causes painful joints from time to time, but take MSM and the pain is

minimal.



Also, does anyone have experience with herbs that are good for diabetes,

i.e., lowering blood glucose?  I'm a type II diabetic, and have been for

about 18 years, but just never paid much attention to it.  Now... I'm on a

low carb diet, and wondering about herbal supplements... I already take MSM,

ester C, and Lecithin.  Does anyone have info on Lecithin?  I am told it

lowers cholesterol.

Hugs,

Alaena



From niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Sun Mar 02 00:29:46 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] constitutional intake form

From: "Niamh" <niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:29:46 -0000



From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>



> (Niamh talks about the intake form from the herbal energetics booklet.

That

> booklet was mentioned earlier today, compleat with URL.)

> That intake form, properly understood, is an admirable tool for

pinpointing

> the weakest system(s), the one(s) that, if inflamed, should be left alone

and

> built around, and if not inflamed, should be shored up with mild herbs.

> Henriette



Thank you so much for that, am going to try to digest it as soon as I have

room......

So do use it as the starting point for your consultations, or do you take

your case history first and then tie up the ends with it? I think it is

fantastic, for the simple reason that when you get down an avenue with a

patient it's sometimes hard to get up again and see a broader picture. It

can get a bit too focused especially when there is a lot of illnesses to

deal with it.  The day to day functions, ultimately the greatest pointers to

imbalance get brushed over and then you can't see the wood for the trees.

Thank youi spamcop (had to laugh!)



Namh



From hetta@spamcop.net Sun Mar 02 10:29:39 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] constitutional intake form

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 10:29:39 +0200



Niamh wrote:

> From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

> 

> > That intake form, properly understood, is an admirable tool for 

> 

> So do use it as the starting point for your consultations, or do you take

> your case history first and then tie up the ends with it? 



First, I write down the problem the client came in for.

Then, they get the intake form. That then is a basis for all discussions.



If I don't write down what they came in for I tend to forget it ... so they 

get all in balance, but that might not touch their most vexing troubles for a 

while. Troubles irritating enough to seek out an alternative practitioner, 

eh? And it makes sense to give relief on those, with symptom-masking herbs if 

needed, and work on long-term wellness separately. That makes for happy 

clients, which means more clients.



> Thank you spamcop (had to laugh!)



spamcop.net is a spam catching service. If I didn't use such I'd drown in spam 

(and viruses)(think at least 100 junk messages a day) - my saunalahti address 

has been out there for years. It still attracts a majority of the spam I get, 

which is why I'm ditching it and switching to my spamcop address instead. 

Oh, to be back in the days of '94, with no spam... and no info on t'web 

either, eh?



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From drkelly@icdc.com Sun Mar 02 17:27:24 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] poodle skin?

From: "Lynn Kelly, D.C." <drkelly@icdc.com>

Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 10:27:24 -0500



A friend rescued an abused 7 year old pinchon (sp?).  Had not been groomed

and skin was in terrible condition; tail still bad, skin cracked, etc. Vet

prescribed thyroid meds.  Has urinary incontinence (don't know whether she

doesn't have sensation or can't control) very, very nervous but lavishly

affectionate.



Can someone who advises for animals please get back to me?  Thank you.  LK

drkelly@icdc.com



From elementalclay@webtv.net Mon Mar 03 20:04:32 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org,

 drkelly@icdc.com (Lynn Kelly, D.C.)

Subject: Re: [Herb] poodle skin?

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:04:32 -0600 (CST)



Lynn,

  The first thing that comes to mind is to use an oil like Udo's on the

dogs food to help with her skin.

  Incontinence is common in small dogs that are nervous and especially

abused ones.  This is something that may get better as trust is

established.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 03 20:39:40 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] poodle skin?

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:39:40 -0500



>   Incontinence is common in small dogs that are nervous and especially

>abused ones.  This is something that may get better as trust is

>established.



Ditto... it may not be incontinence at all, but a sign of his/her submission 

to you as the dominant one in the relationship... natural dog way of showing 

(s)he understands your at the top of the pecking order.  In abused animals, 

this can be a way for them to say, "yes, I know you're dominant, don't hurt 

me".  In addition to being very gentle with her, when you're playing with or 

interacting with her and she lowers her head, lower yours, get down with 

your chin to the floor, and nuzzle her.  This is the dog way of showing 

acceptance and encouragement to play.



Some type of oil (EFA) is probably best for the skin, along with, perhaps, 

burdock root/seed, and rescue remedy in her water to chill ouut the nerves.  

Look into Tilford's "herbs for pets"... a GREAT book, even for people.



oh yeah... another thought is that she could be emotionally distraught by 

the typical "poodle haircut".  Maybe just let her go natural... you could 

rename her "Dread", or maybe "Rasta"...



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Thu Mar 06 02:03:09 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] poodle skin?

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:03:09 EST



In a message dated 3/3/2003 1:10:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

elementalclay@webtv.net writes:



> Lynn,

>   The first thing that comes to mind is to use an oil like Udo's on the

> dogs food to help with her skin.

>   Incontinence is common in small dogs that are nervous and especially

> abused ones.  This is something that may get better as trust is

> established.

> Roxanne

> 



Hi Lynn & Roxanne ~



I didn't get the original post on this, but assume the subject is skin and 

incontinence.  We adopted an Old English Sheepdog who had an incontinence 

problem.  I began to grow and use horsetail herb.  I made it into a tincture 

and would put 10 drops each night on her food, and then 10 drops at bedtime.  

She'd lick it off of my fingers.  Since the breed is large that was a 

sufficient dose for her.  Over the years we had to go up in dosage as she 

aged.  You'd have to titrate down for smaller animals.  For skin sensitivity 

we had to bathe her each weekend with a rub I made of calendula and soapwort, 

then finish with a calendula, vitamin E, and aloe whipped cream I made her.  

At the beginning she would try to lick off the cream but with gentle training 

she found it helped her.  She had a soft cotton bedspread she would sleep on, 

and by the weekend it really needed washing.  We would also limit her water 

after 6 p.m.  On hot summer days when she'd be dying for a drink at night I'd 

take her outside, let her run through the sprinkler as long as she wished and 

lap up all of the water she needed.  She'd then spend the night outside under 

her favorite tree.  Her name was Nellie and I miss her very much.



PS - The solution the vet suggested was to get her some Dexatrim tablets.  It 

had some ingredient in it that firmed those back anal muscles.



Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From sc62@charter.net Sun Mar 02 19:06:43 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:06:43 -0500



Is anyone familiar with the use of potassium iodide as a medicinal herb for

hyperthyroid? It is an old drug used in the treatment of respiratory and

sinus problems.



It also has anti-infective properties and is sometimes used to treat certain

skin conditions. Today it is mainly used to treat overactive thyroid and to

protect from the effects of radiation from inhaled or swallowed radioactive

iodine.



If it is not recommended, is there an herb that could take it's place. I've

been using bugleweed, motherwort, hawthorn, and such herbs, but they are not

making much difference with the cardiac symptoms.



When I learned about this potassium iodide, I thought perhaps if it goes to

the thyroid and *fills it up*, it will prevent the over-excess of hormones

causing the cardiac symptoms.



Also, when I tried to order it through my druggist, I was told I needed a

prescription, but I can order it online. I can't understand why the

difference.



Much appreciation,

Sandra



From hetta@spamcop.net Sun Mar 02 20:23:09 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:23:09 +0200



On Sunday 02 March 2003 19:06, Sandra wrote:

> Is anyone familiar with the use of potassium iodide as a medicinal herb for

> hyperthyroid? It is an old drug used in the treatment of respiratory and

> sinus problems.



Iodine is not a herb, it's an element. One that is necessary for the thyroid. 

One that's added to normal table salt, in order to do away with 

iodine-deficient hypothyroid. This is called "iodized salt". Try to find salt 

that's not iodized... note, sea salt contains native iodine.



So there IS no iodine-deficient hypothyroid these days. That again means that 

if you actually were to use iodine in any form as a supplemtn for some kinds 

of hypothyroid you're very likely to make things worse.



So tell your source to wake up and look around them... we're in the 21st 

century now. Not the 1950s, or the 1940s.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From cyli@visi.com Mon Mar 03 00:50:14 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Cyli" <cyli@visi.com>

Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:50:14 -0600



Mail message body



On 2 Mar 2003 at 20:23, Henriette Kress wrote:



 

> One that's added to normal table salt, in order to do away with 

> iodine-deficient hypothyroid. This is called "iodized salt". Try to find salt 

> that's not iodized... 



Unfortunately, that's very easy to do right here in the goiter belt 

of the US.   Somewhere along the line whoever's in charge decided 

that plain salt is okay now because everyone eats so many things from 

all over the world and so much fish from the ocean that they're 

getting enough iodine in their food.  Wrong.  Lots of rural folks 

grow their own of veggies and meats and they eat local fish that they 

or their friends or relatives catch.  Their kids are getting to be 

awfully chunky these days.  I've had to look carefully on the shelves 

to find iodized salt, as it's in much lesser supply than plain salt.



This in an area where thyroid problems are mostly underdiagnosed 

until they cause visible problems, such as large goiters or 

hyperthyroidism with palpitations (hypo with palpitations is 

generally ignored or given anti-depressants).



Looks as if the FDA got its additives-are-bad and urban yuppie scales 

as the normal diet thing mixed up with reality.



If I take a 10 minute walk in downtown I'm bound to see at least 3 

women with rear ends over 2 or 3 feet wide and the rest to match.  

Not as many of the kids are obviously overweight as what I see when 

camping in the country, though.  8 to 12 years old kids of normal 

height should not be weighing 120 to 180 pounds and have trouble 

running because their thighs rub together.



Sorry.  Hit one of my buttons.  Guess what my endocrine disorder is?  

No sympathy needed.  My doctor and I are on the same wave length and 

I'm pretty much correctly medicated with Armour now.



From honthaas1@centurytel.net Mon Mar 03 01:08:02 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: Veronica Honthaas <honthaas1@centurytel.net>

Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:08:02 -0700



>

>So there IS no iodine-deficient hypothyroid these days. That again means that

>if you actually were to use iodine in any form as a supplemtn for some kinds

>of hypothyroid you're very likely to make things worse.



My experience differs. Here in Montana  we are far away from the sea. There 

is no iodine in the soil and good seafood is hard to come by or is very 

expensive.  I do find many of my clients showing varying degrees of 

hypothyroidism. It is almost epidemic here even in cats,  dogs and horses 

and the vets have them on Synthroid.  I prefer to treat naturally with kelp 

and other sea vegetable herbs and that seems to do the trick. It can take 

about 6 months of regularly adding these wonderful sea veggies to the diet 

to see and improvemint........but it works.



From carlton47@earthlink.net Sun Mar 02 23:21:52 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:21:52 -0700



Sandra,



As Henriette said....Potassium Iodide is not an herb but an elemental ionic

bond.  The only way it would have helped respiratory and sinus problems

would have been in the case of someone with severe hypothyroid function who

would have those symptoms chronically along with MANY other symptoms of

stagnation reflecting a thyroid that is not functioning.



Now if you listen to the FEMA folks and catastrophisers, you will have your

handy supply of these potassium idodide pills when the "nuclear attack"

arrives in your face....should you survive the initial crisping that is.



It is prescription for good reason.  You can really mess up your body by

taking it when there is no need to and I can't think of anyone who does not

have access to iodized salt these days.  Also, if you suppress your own

metabolism of any of the elements, bad things will happen because your body

will no longer see a reason to perform this function, and you'll be toxic

anyway.



Aliceann



> Subject: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

>

> Is anyone familiar with the use of potassium iodide as a medicinal herb

for

> hyperthyroid? It is an old drug used in the treatment of respiratory and

> sinus problems.



>

> When I learned about this potassium iodide, I thought perhaps if it goes

to

> the thyroid and *fills it up*, it will prevent the over-excess of hormones

> causing the cardiac symptoms.

>

> Also, when I tried to order it through my druggist, I was told I needed a

> prescription, but I can order it online. I can't understand why the

> difference.



From carlton47@earthlink.net Mon Mar 03 16:48:27 2003

To: "Herblist" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:48:27 -0700



Hi Cyli,



Your point is noted, however, having a big rear end and the rest to match

does not mean that there is iodine deficiency.  Additionally, iodine uptake

is also dependent upon co-elements such as copper and zinc.  What do your

soil and water surveys indicate in terms of elements and contaminants? 

Goiters and hypothyroid conditions can be caused by an inability to absorb

iodine, metabolize it etc as well as thyroid damage from pathogens.  I

would be wary of assuming presence or lack of iodine is the indicator.



In any case, the question was regarding using potassium iodine for

treatment of respiratory and sinus problems which would be dangerous

without knowing the current levels in the body.



I see lots of folks with underactive thyroid problems...but the thyroid

problem developed from other long standing life activity components, not

usually a lack of iodine.



AA



Cyli

>

> Unfortunately, that's very easy to do right here in the goiter belt 

> of the US.   Somewhere along the line whoever's in charge decided 

> that plain salt is okay now because everyone eats so many things from 

> all over the world and so much fish from the ocean that they're 

> getting enough iodine in their food.  Wrong.  Lots of rural folks 

> grow their own of veggies and meats and they eat local fish that they 

> or their friends or relatives catch.  Their kids are getting to be 

> awfully chunky these days.  I've had to look carefully on the shelves 

> to find iodized salt, as it's in much lesser supply than plain salt.



From cyli@visi.com Wed Mar 05 03:18:31 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org,

 carlton47@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Cyli" <cyli@visi.com>

Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:18:31 -0600



Mail message body



On 3 Mar 2003 at 7:48, Aliceann and Scott Carlton wrote:



> Hi Cyli,

> 

  I

> would be wary of assuming presence or lack of iodine is the indicator.

> 



Quite.  But it's an additive factor and _is_ helped by iodized salt. 

Which is now not too hard to find, but easy to miss at the store.  On 

the lowest shelf to one side while the regular salt is on the next 

shelf up, filling the shelf.



From carlton47@earthlink.net Mon Mar 03 17:00:09 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:00:09 -0700



Hi Veronica,



We'll check out the soil status for Montana over the next couple of days. 

Since there are huge deposits of the stuff here in the Eastern Montana

region (look up the oil drilling reports...they look for high iodine

deposits co-existing with oil deposits), the question is of accessibility

not presence.  Also, how many folks eat only local foods in your part of

the state?



As I mentioned to Cyli, there are lots of reasons besides iodine deficiency

for thyroid dysfunction...most of those lifestyle related and due to

exposure to iodine depleting or uptake reducing factors.  Read up on the

Hanford atomic test exposure findings on Iodine 131 for more information on

this.  Montana suffers greatly from the destruction of element and mineral

balances due to mining, agriculture, drilling etc.....what are the levels

in your area of environmental factors?



This still doesn't address the issue Sandra brought up of using Potassium

Iodide for sinus and respiratory problems.  My vote is to drink hot water

(not from Anaconda though) with black pepper for these problems and to look

at environmental and lifestyle factors for causes.



As for Kelp and sea stuff, I lived along the sea for many years...the

lobstermen and fisherfolk have just as high an incidence of thyroid

problems.  To look at an isolated element is too narrow a focus.  Maybe I'm

prejudiced because I dislike the taste of kelp?



Best Regards from the old sea beds of the Badlands,

Aliceann



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 03 18:09:59 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:09:59 -0500



The association between Iodine & the thyroid is that the thyroid uses Iodine 

as a raw material to make hormones.  No Iodine in the diet, no raw 

materials, more difficult to make the hormones.  Supplementing iodine 

supplies these raw materials, so people say "Iodine is good for throid 

disorders".  It is... ~if~ you're deficient in Iodine.



When the body is deficient in Iodine, it will absorb it via the skin from 

Iodine gases that may be in the air.  If you live downwind from a nuclear 

reactor, which releases radioactive Iodine in its gov't allowed emissions, 

you will absorb this and the radioactive Iodine will break down in your 

Thyroid.. this is not good.  This is why Potassium Iodide is "recommended" 

in case of a nuclear disaster... if you're all "filled up" with Iodine, you 

won't absorb any of the radioactive iodine in the air (or less, at any 

rate).



While Iodized salt is prevalent on the shelves of grocery stores, most 

people get their salt intake from "junk foods", and the companies producing 

these often skip on the ~iodized~ salt to save money.  Many "health 

conscious" people have decided salt is bad and eliminated it from their 

diets... so Iodine defiency is a reality nowadays.



Potassium Iodide, though, is a pure chemical and not realy what the body 

wants.  ~IF~ you are deficient in Iodine, find a good, repuatble seaweed 

harvester and consume that... its bioavailable and body friendly, and you 

can eat it or use it as a condiment or put it in recipes to no end.  A ~much 

better~ choice than a potentially toxic chemical.  You can also buy capsules 

and simply take Kelp as a daily supplement, but MAKE SURE it comes from 

clean water.  There's no good done by using Kelp harvested from polluted 

water to be healthy.  Naturespirit Herbs and Sea Vegetables is a good source 

(thanks joyce!).



If your thyroid problem is NOT due to Iodine deficiency - and many, if not 

most, aren't - you need to look at lifestyle.  Physical activity is 

extremely important.  A good diet is extremely important.  As far as herbs 

go, look to alteratives... they should be the base of any formula.  Burdock 

does more good when taken ~consistently over a long period of time~ than 

almost any herb I know of, and is a much better way to address a hormonal 

imbalance than a stint on this herb or a stint on that herb.



I've yet to meet a person with a thyroid disorder that doesn't have lots of 

stress and emotional issues as a major contributing factor.  There's also an 

esoteric relationship between thyroid problems and self expression... the 

thyroid is associated with the throat chakra, and it seems lots of thyroid 

sufferers have things they need to express... what that is, exactly, can run 

the gammet (Ryan Drum says there are often grief issues), but there's a 

release that needs to happen for improvement to occur.



Ryan Drum has a very clinical article on the use of seaweeds for thyroid 

dysfunction at www.planetherbs.com.



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Thu Mar 20 13:05:02 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:05:02 -0500 (EST)



On getting enough iodine from iodized salt, some people, like me, rarely use

added salt, so iodized salt vs. non-iodized salt would make little difference.

I eat seaweed throughout the year, and last summer when it was hot, I took

small amounts of sea salt, less than the average person uses in winter.  I got

sweaty as it was hot outdoors, and I would turn on the air conditioner only

when the room temperature reached 33 or 34 C, and I never left it on overnight.

Yet I see a couple of sausage recipes in a cookbook that call for two

tablespoons coarse salt with one pound venison and two pounds pork, and there

was no reference to summer heat or hiking Death Valley in July.



Jim McDonald, you mention burdock:



> Burdock 

> does more good when taken ~consistently over a long period of time~ than 

> almost any herb I know of, and is a much better way to address a hormonal 

> imbalance than a stint on this herb or a stint on that herb.



How long should it take to notice if burdock is having a beneficial effect?

Burdock seems to do nothing for me, bad or good, but maybe I didn't take enough

over an extended time, being not persuaded of the benefits?



From carlton47@earthlink.net Tue Mar 04 03:59:46 2003

To: "Herblist" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 18:59:46 -0700



----- Original Message ----- 

From: Veronica Honthaas 

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org;carlton47@earthlink.net

Sent: 3/3/2003 9:32:07 AM 

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide



Veronica wrote:



I am answering off list because I am not sure  the world really cares about

soils in Mt. 



*The world better care as the soils in Montana have been majorly damaged as

a result of stripping, extraction, overgrazing and erosion!  Anyway, this

message came to me via the list, so I am responding to it via the list as

it seems to be a thread of some interest.



Anyway,  I should have been more specific an said Western Montana. We live

on a small farm and my husband is a farrier.  We work closely with some

excellent veterinarians who are working with mineral issues in our area. 

We virtually have no iodine in our area! 



*That's useful information to know.  What soil labs and reports can you

direct me to please? What other factors are a part of the environment?



Test after test has confirmed that.  Deep deposits (possibly related to oil

pockets..........of course we do not have much in the way for oil here,

either) would not necessarily be available to plants.



That's true, but they often affect water resources.



I originate from the east coast and we did not have the low thyroid issues

back there. 



Strange, we sure did in NJ, NH, and Maine for the past 50+ years.



Our area is growing very fast.



Yes, and the environmental impact is huge!



 In my practice I notice that the majority of my clients who are new

transplants to the Mt West have much healthier thyroids than the locals.



How do you know this?  What is the testing process? 



However, give them three years and they will be showing the same signs a as

those who were born here. Eating good seafood or sea veggies really helps.



You think it's because of iodine exclusive of other factors?  I agree

natural sources are always best....if you  keep them in balance as I am

sure you suggest to your clients.  Personally, I recommend molasses daily

for folks who are low on everything ....good taste, good minerals etc...but

it still has to be used in moderation...and in combination with fresh food.

Maybe the molasses would help offset the awful taste of the kelp, dulse

etc?  The fish sure isn't safe to eat regularly either.  Hmmm...nope, can't

talk myself into it...pass the iodized salt please....



It still does not suggest that Potassium Iodide supplements will treat

sinus problems.  Sandra has also clarified her point indicating she's

actually dealing with hyperthyroid rather than hypothyroid if I read her

last message correctly?



Thanks for the information.

Aliceann



From nmdpapon@hotmail.com Thu Mar 06 01:58:52 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: "Nadine Papon" <nmdpapon@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 23:58:52 +0000



I used to take Iodine in Cayce's product Atomidine. It took the edge off the 

feeling of depletion but like synthroid it didn't solve my thyroid problem. 

I did not feel the edginess and emotional roller coaster that I felt with 

synthroid.



Recently I came across Wilson's Thyroid syndrome.

The theory being that if you were diagnosed with a thyroid problem you were 

put on synthroid for life. After a few months the synthroid stopped working 

sufficiently because that is not the only thyroid needed. Synthroid does not 

produce what Wilson calls the other - T-3. They have a web site but I don't 

have it at present. I will look it up.



I took their formula (it is what is naturally produced in the body and they 

have their own labs which produce it)twice for three-weeks at a time with 

two or three weeks in the middle. I took my temperature several times a day 

(more times than they recommended) and monitored my energy pattern and 

eating habits.



Interesting sideline is that I have not used toothpaste with flouride for 

years because I know it affects my thyroid negatively. I ran out during one 

of those weeks and used flouride toothpaste and immediately my temperature 

dropped. Quickly I figured that out and bought the  toothpaste without 

flouride at the health food store.



Then I took a homeopathic T-3 which is milder for another two or three weeks 

and my temperature has continued to be stable.



Hope this helps.



Nadine



From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

>Reply-To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

>To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

>Subject: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

>Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:06:43 -0500

>

>Is anyone familiar with the use of potassium iodide as a medicinal herb for

>hyperthyroid? It is an old drug used in the treatment of respiratory and

>sinus problems.

>

>It also has anti-infective properties and is sometimes used to treat 

>certain

>skin conditions. Today it is mainly used to treat overactive thyroid and to

>protect from the effects of radiation from inhaled or swallowed radioactive

>iodine.

>

>If it is not recommended, is there an herb that could take it's place. I've

>been using bugleweed, motherwort, hawthorn, and such herbs, but they are 

>not

>making much difference with the cardiac symptoms.

>

>When I learned about this potassium iodide, I thought perhaps if it goes to

>the thyroid and *fills it up*, it will prevent the over-excess of hormones

>causing the cardiac symptoms.

>

>Also, when I tried to order it through my druggist, I was told I needed a

>prescription, but I can order it online. I can't understand why the

>difference.



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Thu Mar 06 02:11:31 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:11:31 EST



In a message dated 3/3/2003 11:12:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

carlton47@earthlink.net writes:



> Anyway,  I should have been more specific an said Western Montana. We live

> on a small farm and my husband is a farrier.  We work closely with some

> excellent veterinarians who are working with mineral issues in our area. 

> We virtually have no iodine in our area! 

> 



Hello ~



For references in soil and minerals Dr. Bernard Jensen in his book "The 

Chemistry of Man," ISBN #0-9608360-9-8, has mentioned many parts of the 

country devoid of iron and potassium especially.  It came up as they did 

tests in the 50's and 60's regarding health and diet.



One of the "old fashioned" ways of measuring if you need iodine is to put 

some on the arch of your foot.  If it disappears within a few hours your body 

is low in iodine.  So it's off to the kelp beds with you.



Hope this helps ~

Mary

Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Thu Mar 06 02:39:52 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Potassium Iodide

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:39:52 EST



In a message dated 3/5/2003 7:10:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

nmdpapon@hotmail.com writes:



> Recently I came across Wilson's Thyroid syndrome.

> The theory being that if you were diagnosed with a thyroid problem you were 

> 

> put on synthroid for life. After a few months the synthroid stopped working 

> 

> sufficiently because that is not the only thyroid needed. Synthroid does 

> not 

> produce what Wilson calls the other - T-3. They have a web site but I don't 

> 

> have it at present. I will look it up.

> 

> Gosh Nadine ~



You sound like me a few years ago.  I too went the Synthroid route, and when 

it didn't work, I did a lot of my own research.  I found out about the T3-T4 

problem also.  Now Synthroid is being sued, and many of our doctors here are 

switching their patients over to Levoxyl.  There are still many ways to work 

with thyroid naturally, and I would suggest if this is your choice to work 

through a naturopath or herbalist.



Warmly ~

Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From midnightwolf31@hotmail.com Mon Mar 03 14:17:59 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] [herbal remedies] infection in uterus, also cyst on kidney

From: "christina francis" <midnightwolf31@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:17:59 -0800



I and the rest of the family would like to request assistance in searching 

for any help we can receive dealing with uterine infections after 

childbirth. My sister had her baby going on six weeks ago now. The doctors 

have tried treating it with antibiotics but she isn't responding. Also 

passing brown gunk with small vein looking strings with it since shortly 

after having her daughter. Know it is typical to pass this, but the doctors 

feel the timing has exceeded its limits. My mother is wondering if the 

doctor didn't get all of the placenta out after her child was born. The OB 

nurse at the hospital did mention that if the placenta had been abrupting 

during the pregnancy, it could have been breaking down in this form. She had 

bleeding during most of the duration while carrying both children.



She has also been treated for kidney and liver infections both before and 

during these pregnancies. Developing a cyst on her right kidney that went 

from the size of pencil eraser after she had her first child  to the size of 

a golf ball now.



They are talking of putting her in the hospital and possible hysterectomy at 

age 19. Going to try a D&C first though.



My gut instinct is that she has been carrying an infection around within her 

for quite some time and that possibly might be moving into the blood. These 

infections have been going on now for over two years, which has me seriously 

concerned as they just keep relapsing back.



Have done some back research into various herbs, as I have been studying 

them on and off since childhood, but an just now getting into the dosages of 

them and growing them myself.

Some of the ones I have found might be useful are:

Godenseal

Parsley with Garlic

Echinacea

Oregon Grape

Myrrh

Capsicum/Cayenne, though I do not think she will take this one..lol..



Sincerely and blessed be,

Christina aka ~Midnightwolf~



From mterry@snet.net Mon Mar 03 16:46:05 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] [herbal remedies] infection in uterus, also cyst on kidney

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:46:05 -0500



christina francis wrote:



> My mother is wondering if the

> doctor didn't get all of the placenta out after her child was born.



About 3 weeks after my first and third childbirth, I hemorrhaged and had to be

taken to the hospital for an emergency D&C.  My doctor felt fairly strongly that

the placenta, in those two pregnancies, had attached itself over an area of scar

tissue (from who knows what), and when the uterus shrank after the birth, it

sucked up a piece of the placenta, then decided to slough it off a few weeks

later.



Seems like something 'mechanical' like this might be what's going on with your

sister.  If that's the case it will have to be taken care of in a *mechanical*

way; if she also has infection, it may clear up more readily if offending tissue

is removed, or whatever the underlying cause is.  She certainly needs

nutritional support, so diet/supporting herbs sound like a good idea, but the

doctors have to figure out what's going on, not just remove the uterus to

eliminate the problem *area*.



I hope this doesn't sound condescending to doctors.  Just a layperson's opinion.



May

--

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From mwherbs@cox.net Tue Mar 04 08:54:34 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] [herbal remedies] infection in uterus, also cyst on

 kidney

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 23:54:34 -0700



First of all take a deep breath. She is probably going to be ok.

     Antibiotics won't stop bleeding- it helps the body to fight 

infection- if infection is the cause of the bleeding then it will 

eventually stop.

     The blood is brown,so that is good, it is not frank bleeding 

which can be more of an emergent problem. Does the discharge have an 

odor? how much bleeding is happening in an hour? in a few hours? in a 

day? is she soaking pads, how many?

  So how much running around has she been doing since the birth? If 

she is doing much running around or lifting, climbing stairs, caring 

for a toddler and doing all the normal house work and shopping too 

then she can even end up bleeding longer. Being upright and mobile 

with care prevents other complications such as blood clots in the 

legs, but trying to maintain a normal life is too much for most women 

in the immediate postpartum. If she has a toddler at home with this 

new baby then just eating and child care is about it, the house work 

needs to be farmed out to others, if company is over to drop off a 

meal, then mom needs to be sitting with the baby and the company 

needs to be doing a load or 2 of laundry or washing the dishes, 

picking up the house...

    Is she breastfeeding, I am hoping she is because this helps the 

uterus to clamp down and go back to normal size. when a uterus clamps 

down it is providing its own direct pressure and staunches bleeding.

    When the placenta is delivered after the birth of the baby the 

uterus is greatly enlarged and the entire surface of the placenta 

which is often the size of a plate has been inter-looped sort of like 

velcro to moms uterine wall. A piece or even a separate lobe can be 

left adhered,aged placentas can certainly fall apart and do this but 

I think far more often it is do to the hands of an impatient 

practioner who may tug a bit too quickly and sheer off a piece. 

abruption is just the opposite of retained and so I think that some 

misinformation has been floating around.

In reading your post I am thinking that it is possible that your 

sister has a fibroid or 2- this would account for the bleeding during 

pregnancy as well as excess post partum - fibroids are so firm that 

they don't clamp down properly.

    I would recommend rest, and to stop the bleeding my first choice 

would be yarrow because stops internal bleeding of any kind. plenty 

of fluids, green veggies  like broccoli, leaf lettuce,and cooked 

greens to build up her vitamin K for clotting, also for the iron and 

I am wondering if at this point how anemic is she.

Sharon in Tucson



From liveoak@ozarkisp.net Mon Mar 03 16:11:55 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org,

 "Lynn Kelly, D.C." <drkelly@icdc.com>

Subject: Re: [herb] [Herb] poodle skin?

From: "Bob" <liveoak@ozarkisp.net>

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 08:11:55 -0600



Mail message body



LK,

	Give her a special place, her very crate/corner/under the bed. A place where she can see what is 

going on, but feels secure. Set up a daily schedule for her, so that she can expect and anticipate coming 

events.  Her incontinence may be nerves, like a puppies who wants to please its new owner.  Be firm with 

what you expect, but adjust you tone of voice so that she isn't scared, but understands that she has done 

something you don't approve of. Kind words, lots of praise, and good care should help her to readjust.  

Remember to be patient with her. She has had seven years of apparent abuse.



	I have recently resubscribed to this list, Viet Nam Vet, who raises and loves his German Shepherd and 

Shih Tzu's (Sheed Zoo's)



Bob Root

Arkansas, USA



> Can someone who advises for animals please get back to me?  Thank you.  LK

> drkelly@icdc.com





From sc62@charter.net Mon Mar 03 21:07:37 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Re: Herb Digest, Vol 2, Issue 3

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:07:37 -0500



Thank you for all the responses to my question, but I'm sorry that I  don't

think I explained it very well.



I am producing too much thyroxin, and was going to use this potassium iodide

to absorb the extra hormone  in the thyroid, as I understood that too much

thyroxin  was the cause of the hyper-ness, and the fast metabolism causing

the heartpounding, not just palpitations.>



When I learned about this potassium iodide, I thought perhaps if it goes to

> the thyroid and *fills it up*, it will prevent the over-excess of hormones

that are causing the cardiac symptoms, to be absorbed.

>

I do use the Celtic seasalt, and avoid kelp, as that is what the doctor said

when I was diagnosed....'stay away from kelp.'



But when I was doing macrobiotics, I used a lot of sea vegetables, and I

didn't

 know whether that was good or bad for this situation. Probably too much

kelp, iodine, again.

I know that black tea also contains iodine, and that is the beverage I use,

but I mix the loose tea with loose rooibos tea. "



As for Kelp and sea stuff, I lived along the sea for many years...the

> lobstermen and fisherfolk have just as high an incidence of thyroid

> problems.



Could that be because they ingest too much iodine from the sea

air,(overactive thyroid)? Ocean air is saturated with iodine>

>

 When I read about thyroid disease in the books, many recommend kelp and

iodine for *any* kind of thyroid disorder, and this really confuses me. I

don't know whether I need more or less iodine, if I am producing too much

thyroid hormone now; wouldn't  less be better?

>

> , look to alteratives... they should be the base of any formula.  Burdock

> does more good when taken ~consistently over a long period of time~ than

> almost any herb I know of, and is a much better way to address a hormonal

> imbalance than a stint on this herb or a stint on that herb.



Yes, I have been taking burdock for awhile now along with dandelion for

something else, but I didn't know that it balanced hormones too.

>



Thanks,



Sandra

>



From herbalanng@cox.net Tue Mar 04 20:07:40 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: Herb Digest, Vol 2, Issue 3

From: Ann Gerstenberger <herbalanng@cox.net>

Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:07:40 -0500



Dear Sandra,



Just to review, the thyroid uses iodide to make thyroid hormones. The 

theory is that ingesting potassium iodide will "use up" receptors in the 

thyroid so that other circulating (radioactive per recent post) iodine 

will not be absorbed, but rather excreted, is flawed in a few ways.



In case of nuclear explosion, we'd end up with radioactive iodine in our 

blood vessels, liver and kidneys anyway, is that better?



The thyroid readily alters the number of receptors to absorb as much 

iodine as it wants, to make as much hormone as is being demanded by body 

system sensors.



The amount of iodine you consume may increase the amount of hormone you 

make, if you were iodine deficient (sounds like you are not), it is not 

clear whether reducing iodine consumption will limit hormone production, 

or simply cause the thyroid to enlarge to get what it needs.



High iodine foods include black tea, sea vegetables, shell fish, and 

also soy products, turnips, some fortified breads, and iodized salt. 

Rather than say "no more tea or seaweed" I would suggest regulating your 

iodine intake for a while, read labels, and using the U.S. RDA (150 

ug(micrograms)/day) and the Tolerable Upper Level (1100 ug/day, any more 

has possible adverse effects) as a guideline. You choose the foods, but 

get the RDA, and not much more, in your diet, stick to it for at least 6 

weeks, and see if it makes a difference.



Iodine consumption does not directly affect the absorption or effects of 

circulating thyroid hormones on target systems in the body, which 

regulate just about everything (metabolic rate and blood pressure, 

nutrient metabolism and absorption, GI motility and tone, nervous system 

function, muscle development, joint and skeletal health,  reproductive 

ability and lactation, tone and moistness of the skin).



Are you already on an antithyroid prescription drug? If so, be careful, 

herbs aimed at the heart/circulatory system could exaggerate or inhibit 

their effects.



With more information, for hyperthyroid condition, among the things I 

might try include:

a nervous system tonic - Skullcap, Oats, Valerian, or Vervain are 

possibilities

Nettles for trace nutrients, nervous system support

Burdock or perhaps Yarrow for the liver, or let the Vervain do double duty,

David Hoffmann says Lycopus virginica (Bugleweed) is specific for 

hyperthyroid, in The New Holistic Herbal.

Finley Ellingwood (1919) named it specific for irregular heartbeat, a 

cardiac tonic, peripheral vasoconstrictor, at the same time slowing the 

velocity of the pulse, and curiously enough goiter (we could think this 

through, but I've gone on long enough).



Stress factors? Find a way to have calm time everyday, walk, yoga, 

meditation, prayer, bath



I'm not a Bach Flower practitioner, but you may look to the remedies to 

address associated emotional issues.

Singing, chanting or intoning is another lovely way to direct healing 

emotional energy through the throat chakra.



Good luck with it,

Ann G.



Sandra wrote:



>

>I am producing too much thyroxin, and was going to use this potassium iodide

>to absorb the extra hormone  in the thyroid, as I understood that too much

>thyroxin  was the cause of the hyper-ness, and the fast metabolism causing

>the heartpounding, not just palpitations.>

>

>When I learned about this potassium iodide, I thought perhaps if it goes to

>

>>the thyroid and *fills it up*, it will prevent the over-excess of hormones

>>

>that are causing the cardiac symptoms, to be absorbed.

>

>I do use the Celtic seasalt, and avoid kelp, as that is what the doctor said

>when I was diagnosed....'stay away from kelp.'

>

>But when I was doing macrobiotics, I used a lot of sea vegetables, and I

>didn't

> know whether that was good or bad for this situation. Probably too much

>kelp, iodine, again.

>I know that black tea also contains iodine, and that is the beverage I use,

>but I mix the loose tea with loose rooibos tea. "

>

> When I read about thyroid disease in the books, many recommend kelp and

>iodine for *any* kind of thyroid disorder, and this really confuses me. I

>don't know whether I need more or less iodine, if I am producing too much

>thyroid hormone now; wouldn't  less be bette

>

>Yes, I have been taking burdock for awhile now along with dandelion for

>something else, but I didn't know that it balanced hormones too.

>

>Thanks,



From cyli@visi.com Wed Mar 05 03:34:00 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: Herb Digest, Vol 2, Issue 3

From: "Cyli" <cyli@visi.com>

Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:34:00 -0600



On 3 Mar 2003 at 14:07, Sandra wrote:



> I do use the Celtic seasalt, and avoid kelp, as that is what the doctor said

> when I was diagnosed....'stay away from kelp.'



Then you're hyper.  The iodine / kelp is what's recommended for low 

(hypo) thyroid, as it's generally harmless and may do a lot of good.  

Hyper is a mess (but I can hardly express how much I enjoyed it after 

years of hypo.  Unlike most who are hyper and hate it.).  Go to the 

newsgroup alt.support.thyroid read the group for a few weeks and then 

ask some questions, do the recommended reading and don't let the 

doctors operate or radiate you until you understand what's happening.



>  When I read about thyroid disease in the books, many recommend kelp and

> iodine for *any* kind of thyroid disorder, and this really confuses me. I

> don't know whether I need more or less iodine, if I am producing too much

> thyroid hormone now; wouldn't  less be better?



Yes, but AFAIK, more iodine will not fill up the thyroid and make it 

produce less thyroxine.  Paradoxically, sometimes thyroid pills will 

(do not try that on your own).  But you'll learn that from the 

newsgroup.  Less would be better, but it's all very complicated.  



From mwherbs@cox.net Tue Mar 04 02:17:35 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re:  Potassium Iodide

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:17:35 -0700



as a former down-winder( I use to live near Hanford) I would say 

better safe than sorry. sea weed is cheap and easy. I too would 

recommend Ryan Drum's lectures on iodine.

Sharon in Tucson



From sc62@charter.net Tue Mar 04 22:59:02 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Re:Hyperthyroid (was Potassium Iodide)

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:59:02 -0500



> It still does not suggest that Potassium Iodide supplements will treat

> sinus problems.  Sandra has also clarified her point indicating she's

> actually dealing with hyperthyroid rather than hypothyroid if I read her

> last message correctly?

>

Yes, Aliceanne, I'm hyp_er_thyroid, Graves disease, and what I'm confused

about is,if I'm producing too much thyroxine now, wouldn't I need to avoid

anything with iodine in it so that I don't produce more, that's  if   the

overabundance of thyroxine is the cause of the hyperactivity of the

heartbeat?



Thanks for your help,

Sandra



From Tsadi@aol.com Tue Mar 04 23:06:56 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re:Hyperthyroid (was Potassium Iodide)

From: Tsadi@aol.com

Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:06:56 EST



In a message dated 03/04/2003 3:59:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

sc62@charter.net writes:



> Yes, Aliceanne, I'm hyp_er_thyroid, Graves disease, and what I'm confused

> about is,if I'm producing too much thyroxine now, wouldn't I need to avoid

> anything with iodine in it so that I don't produce more, that's  if   the

> overabundance of thyroxine is the cause of the hyperactivity of the

> heartbeat?



hi sandra,

my experience and understanding is that when your thyroid is imbalanced, 

either hyper or hypo, you should stay away from iodides, etc. as they often 

just add to the imbalance. iodides are good for tonifying the thyroid when 

it's running fine, but again, my understanding and experience has been that 

once the thyroid is off, you should leave it be and address the issues that 

are leading to the imbalance (the thyroid's operation is connected to its 

interaction with many organs -- liver, pituitary, adrenals, reproductive 

organs, etc.). perhaps the best thing to do at this point is to take measures 

to address the systems that are getting run down by your high thyroid, and 

the systems that are leading to the hyper-ness -- unfortunately, the latter 

may require clinical attention.

good luck!

elizabeth



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Tue Mar 04 23:11:56 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re:Hyperthyroid (was Potassium Iodide)

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:11:56 -0500



> Yes, Aliceanne, I'm hyp_er_thyroid, Graves disease, and what I'm confused



Id definitely read Ryan Drums article- I believe Graves disease is the one

that is treated with Melissa tincture...



go to www.planetherbs.com

click on articles, search for ryan drum botanicals for thyroid function and

dysfunction...



Michelle



From carlton47@earthlink.net Wed Mar 05 05:27:08 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [Herb] Re:Hyperthyroid (was Potassium Iodide)

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:27:08 -0700



> [Original Message]

> From: Sandra <sc62@charter.net>

> To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

> Date: 3/4/2003 1:57:36 PM

> Subject: [Herb] Re:Hyperthyroid (was Potassium Iodide)



> >

> Yes, Aliceanne, I'm hyp_er_thyroid, Graves disease, and what I'm confused

> about is,if I'm producing too much thyroxine now, wouldn't I need to avoid

> anything with iodine in it so that I don't produce more, that's  if   the

> overabundance of thyroxine is the cause of the hyperactivity of the

> heartbeat?



Hi Sandra and all,



I recently had a patient with Graves who had her thyroid irradiated to

treat the condition...thus destroying it so she is now on replacement

thyroxin for life and has all the hypothyroid problems associated. 

However, the real reason behind the condition is autoimmune attack and her

thyroid is not the only organ askew.....reproductive system has been

polycyctic for many year preceding....hard to know if she has

Stein-leventhal Syndrome as she never was referred to a specialist or

endocrinologist.



I would try to "treat" this condition except through MD care...preferably a

specialist.  it can be very high risk.  Obviously you want to avoid

stimulants at this time until the thyroid dysfuinction is under control and

probably for a long time to come.  There will also be depletion problems

due to the exhaustion of the thyroid high gear.  That can be treated

nutritionally and herbally once the acute problem is "under wraps" so to

speak.  Please listen to your doctor's advice about this as it doesn't just

fix itself.  You must decide what is the best choice, but a hypothyroid

condition is easier to manage than hyper in terms of acute risk in my book.



Thanks for clarifying Sandra.  my best wishes to you for healing and

recovery...

AA



From sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de Wed Mar 05 02:46:26 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] nettles tincture

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 01:46:26 +0100



 While the liquid was a beautiful green, as she poured it into 

> a bowl, there was almost a 'flourescent' swirl to it.  

-----------------

dishsoap residue????????????????



Sorcy



From carlton47@earthlink.net Wed Mar 05 15:51:34 2003

To: "Herblist" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Re:  Typos Corrections... Re:  Thyroid Post 3/4/03

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:51:34 -0700



 

My apologies to all....fingers hit send before brain registered typos.....

AA

>

> Hi Sandra and all,

>

> I recently had a patient with Graves who had her thyroid irradiated to

> treat the condition...thus destroying it so she is now on replacement

> thyroxin for life and has all the hypothyroid problems associated. 

> However, the real reason behind the condition is autoimmune attack and her

> thyroid is not the only organ askew.....reproductive system has been

> 

CORRECTED TYPING

polycystic for many year preceding....hard to know if she has

> Stein-Leventhal Syndrome as she never was referred to a specialist or

> endocrinologist.

 

>CORRECTED TYPING:

> I would NOT try to "treat" this condition except through MD

care...preferably a

> specialist. It can be very high risk. 

 

Obviously you want to avoid

> stimulants at this time until the thyroid dysfuinction is under control

and

> probably for a long time to come. There will also be depletion problems

> due to the exhaustion of the thyroid high gear. That can be treated

> nutritionally and herbally once the acute problem is "under wraps" so to

> speak. Please listen to your doctor's advice about this as it doesn't just

> fix itself. You must decide what is the best choice, but a hypothyroid

> condition is easier to manage than hyper in terms of acute risk in my

book.

>

> Thanks for clarifying Sandra. my best wishes to you for healing and

> recovery...

> AA



From sustras@attglobal.net Wed Mar 05 17:42:35 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Teeth, gums, bones

From: Susan Strasser <sustras@attglobal.net>

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:42:35 -0500



Hi to you all -- I'm to have a tooth extracted in a couple of weeks.

What should I be doing, before and after, to help counteract the trauma,

heal the bone, etc?



Thanks much -- Susie Strasser



From mterry@snet.net Thu Mar 06 02:51:35 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org,

 sustras@attglobal.net

Subject: Re: [Herb] Teeth, gums, bones

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 19:51:35 -0500



Susan Strasser wrote:



> Hi to you all -- I'm to have a tooth extracted in a couple of weeks.

> What should I be doing, before and after, to help counteract the trauma,

> heal the bone, etc?



This isn't herbal per se, but definitely hit the Vitamin C.  It helps a lot

with reducing swelling and bruising, and of course it's helpful whenever

infection is a possibility.



May

--

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From Drolma@aol.com Fri Mar 07 18:26:51 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Teeth, gums, bones

From: Drolma@aol.com

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:26:51 EST



Hi,



good question.  I thought about this, because I had  a tooth 

extracted yesterday.  Today, no pain, no swelling.

 

Annectotal herb use here:

General herbs for health and light cleaning of vital organs for several weeks

before extraction plus few additional stresses

to the system, ie no booze, well balanced diet, lots of rest, water.



Saving up large amounts of money for this extraction.

I keep arnica homeopath  in my hand bag!  Right in the

elevator I took some.  I wonder what the plant arnica would

do in decoction.



so, in summary:  for my tooth extraction I used herbs to energize my

energy and "vitality" and to gently keep my kidney, liver, etc. working

well.  I am going out to the Mojave desert this weekend and walk about

and see which plants I am attracted to just now, read about them, and

consult the sketchy desctiptions about what the Native Americans

might have used at this time of the year for their teeth.



eating oatmeal, Pam



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 07 18:35:38 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Teeth, gums, bones

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:35:38 +0200



Drolma@aol.com wrote:



> good question.  I thought about this, because I had  a tooth 

> extracted yesterday.  Today, no pain, no swelling.



Congrats!



> I keep arnica homeopath  in my hand bag!  Right in the

> elevator I took some.  I wonder what the plant arnica would

> do in decoction.



Don't. In large doses it shoves all your blood to the periphery, leaving 

nothing for the heart... you go into shock.



It's a herb best used externally or homeopathically. For pretty much the same 

effect you could try SJW... internally, too.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From mterry@snet.net Sat Mar 08 01:33:06 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Teeth, gums, bones

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:33:06 -0500



Drolma@aol.com wrote:



> I had  a tooth

> extracted yesterday.  Today, no pain, no swelling.

>

> I keep arnica homeopath  in my hand bag!  Right in the

> elevator I took some.  I wonder what the plant arnica would

> do in decoction.



My guess would be it would kill you.



May

--

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From dan@awherbals.com Sun Mar 09 00:14:57 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Teeth, gums, bones

From: Dan <dan@awherbals.com>

Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:14:57 -0800



On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:33:06 -0500, May Terry <mterry@snet.net> wrote:



> Drolma@aol.com wrote:

>

>> I had  a tooth

>> extracted yesterday.  Today, no pain, no swelling.

>>

>> I keep arnica homeopath  in my hand bag!  Right in the

>> elevator I took some.  I wonder what the plant arnica would

>> do in decoction.

>

> My guess would be it would kill you.

>

> May

> --



Well a decoction (setting aside the degradation from boiling) wouldn't kill 

you if you got the

dose right. I have used arnica internally and given it to clients with 

great success. Usually only 3-10 drops of tincture though. I would think 

tea would be a teaspoon dose..



Arnica should be used with care but is a great plant to use non 

homeopathically.



Dan



From hetta@spamcop.net Wed Mar 05 18:16:44 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] ADMIN: Things, etc.

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:16:44 +0200



Three things: 

1) snip as you go or be moderated

2) cut your footer down to size or be moderated



and, not really netiquette:



3) if your "to" and "from" addresses don't match you're moderated, for all 

practical purposes.



-----



Okay, here we go then. First, netiquette:



1) There's no way I can catch this sort of thing in advance, in my filters:



   >

   > _______________________________________________

   > Herb mailing list

   > Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

   > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/herb

   >

   >

   > End of Herb Digest, Vol 2, Issue 4

   > **********************************



   _______________________________________________

   Herb mailing list

   Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

   http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/herb



Not that the double list footer is all that bad in itself, but it's a surefire 

sign of a lister who doesn't bother to remove older texts from his/her own 

reply. Over the years I've gotten more and more allergic to that (aaaah - 

aaaah - AAAHH --- TCHOO! - see?) ... so these people get "moderated" faster 

than you can say "Err, what?".



If mailman could filter on the text of posts I'd be home free - I'd just put 



> Herb mailing list



into those filters and catch the lot... but alas, mailman can't do that. I can 

only stop this by moderating the overquoters. Now, I don't really like having 

lots of listers on "moderated" status - it means all their posts have to be 

approved by me, which isn't how mailing lists should work. 



So do me a favor - snip as you go. And this URL: 



   http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html 



is pretty helpful, especially for people new to the net.



-----



2) The people on digest get a day's worth of posts all in one enormously long 

message. They're very much less than amused if you include a mile-long footer 

in every single message you send to the list. That's why netiquette says that 

a footer (.sig or signature) should be at most four lines long, preferably 

with "-- " (dash dash space - like my .sig, below) on a separate line just 

before it. 



I don't get all that upset if your .sig is 6 lines, but 10+ gets you stuck 

into "moderated" pretty much immediately.



-----



That's all on the netiquette front. It's not all that much to ask, eh?



-----



Now, this isn't netiquette, but some delays between sending in a post and 

seeing it onlist might seem vexing to some listers:



3) Some listers have one "from" address they're sending mail from, and another 

address they've subscribed as, perhaps long ago - this is shown as the "to" 

address in posts they receive from this list. If these addresses don't match 

the list software stops any messages they send to the list and tells me "a 

non-member tried to post but I got'em - go have a look". 



So if you see strange delays you could check your addresses, and if they don't 

match, change the one you're subscribed as to the one you're posting from.



Ta ta

Henriette, listmom.



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From Elfreem@aol.com Wed Mar 05 20:58:57 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] iodide ingestion following radioactive fallout

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:58:57 EST



Ann,



Just to set the record straight ..while this is of topic, it is vitally 

important.

Following a nuclear explosion there will be radioactive iodide associated

with fallout. Iodide is concentrated in the thyoid gland and will cause

great harm if the amount achieves toxic levels. The amount of harm

in other areas of the body would be minimal. If enough potassium 

iodide is ingested shortly after a blast, radioactive iodide will not be 

"concentrated" in the thyroid and will wind up like most of the

excess iodide that is ingested afterward ...excreted or too dilute

to cause harm (we're talking about radiation levels during fallout

several hundred miles away from the blast over a two week period). 



Your post minimized the importance of taking potassium iodide 

supplementation following a nuclear blast and listers should be made 

aware of the importance of having potassium iodide or some other iodide

available ..if and whan a nuclear explosion becomes a potential risk. 



Now to get back on-topic, if a nuclear blast does take place, God forbid, 

you can be assured that potassium iodide will be hard to obtain for 

some time ..at least beyond the time that you would need it to prevent 

destruction of the thyroid gland. The potassium iodide dose for 

adults is 130mg/day for at least 1 weeks and possibly 2 weeks or

longer. I'll have to calculate the amount of iodide in potassium iodide, 

but after that the next step is to find out what herbs might contain a 

high enough amount of iodide so as to be useful. My guess is that 

quantities would be too large to consume, but that would have to be 

verified. Judging by the post below, one would suspect that the 

recommended radiation prophylaxis dose would be toxic, but I don't 

think there's a problem of iodide toxicity at that dose and period of 

time ...however, but I'll look into it.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh

Member, Assocation of Natural Medicine Pharmacists



In a message dated 3/5/2003 11:06:03 AM Central Standard Time, 

herb-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes:



Just to review, the thyroid uses iodide to make thyroid hormones. The 

theory is that ingesting potassium iodide will "use up" receptors in the 

thyroid so that other circulating (radioactive per recent post) iodine 

will not be absorbed, but rather excreted, is flawed in a few ways.



In case of nuclear explosion, we'd end up with radioactive iodine in our 

blood vessels, liver and kidneys anyway, is that better?



The thyroid readily alters the number of receptors to absorb as much 

iodine as it wants, to make as much hormone as is being demanded by body 

system sensors.



The amount of iodine you consume may increase the amount of hormone you 

make, if you were iodine deficient (sounds like you are not), it is not 

clear whether reducing iodine consumption will limit hormone production, 

or simply cause the thyroid to enlarge to get what it needs.



High iodine foods include black tea, sea vegetables, shell fish, and 

also soy products, turnips, some fortified breads, and iodized salt. 

Rather than say "no more tea or seaweed" I would suggest regulating your 

iodine intake for a while, read labels, and using the U.S. RDA (150 

ug(micrograms)/day) and the Tolerable Upper Level (1100 ug/day, any more 

has possible adverse effects) as a guideline. You choose the foods, but 

get the RDA, and not much more, in your diet, stick to it for at least 6 

weeks, and see if it makes a difference.



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Thu Mar 06 02:32:47 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] iodide ingestion following radioactive fallout

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:32:47 EST



In a message dated 3/5/2003 2:00:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, Elfreem@aol.com 

writes:



> Following a nuclear explosion there will be radioactive iodide associated

> with fallout. Iodide is concentrated in the thyoid gland and will cause

> great harm if the amount achieves toxic levels. The amount of harm

> in other areas of the body would be minimal. If enough potassium 

> iodide is ingested shortly after a blast, radioactive iodide will not be 

> "concentrated" in the thyroid and will wind up like most of the

> excess iodide that is ingested afterward ...excreted or too dilute

> to cause harm (we're talking about radiation levels during fallout

> several hundred miles away from the blast over a two week period). 

> 



Hi Elliot ~



Good to see you again.  This is a topic I follow very carefully, living just 

outside of Washington, DC.  A year ago I ordered some potassium iodide 

through a reference who gave me a site.  It was called RAD BLOCK, and was 

sold wa KI4U.  The site was www.ki4u.com.  They also have a whole print-out 

they give for taking this product.  It's way to lengthy to put up here.  It's 

very expensive now because of all of the publicity so be aware.



So we have the anthrax nosode here, and the Pot. Iodide; now we have to work 

on stuff for sarin and racin gasses.



One herb comes to mind for environmental toxicity and that is our Chaparral.  

It is a mid western herb growing here in the U.S.  I know as a flower essence 

many use it for cleansing from many environmental hazards.



Plus taking the time to build up your health at this point with appropriate 

cleansing and nutritive herbs is a good idea.



Warmly ~

Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From cmaria@triton.net Wed Mar 05 21:01:06 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Wall Street Journal

From: Christa-Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:01:06 -0600



Henriette,

 I do have an article from the WSJ, does not have your picture or name,

but deals with prostate cancer, the herbal way.

If you want it , please send me your address and I will send it to you.

C-M



From williamj@nac.net Wed Mar 05 21:58:18 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Colitis

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj@nac.net>

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:58:18 -0500



A friend of mine has bouts of eruptive colitis, sometimes , as right now, so

serious that there is blood in the diaharea.  At work her job is very

stressful ,with the bosses piling on more and more work.  Does anyone have

any advice of what herbs might be helpful during such an attack, and

secondly what herbs might be useful for her to take to prevent such an

attack?



Bill Jacobson

Swartswood, New Jersey-----



From hetta@spamcop.net Thu Mar 06 06:39:02 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Colitis

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 06:39:02 +0200



On Wednesday 05 March 2003 21:58, Bill Jacobson wrote:

(bloody diarrhea)

> Does anyone have

> any advice of what herbs might be helpful during such an attack, and



Mallows, any and all of them; or plantago; or calendula tea; or crossed 

linseed in water, or ...



> secondly what herbs might be useful for her to take to prevent such an

> attack?



She needs to check her diet. The colon is not divorced from her stomach... 

she's severely allergic to something in her food, have her get rid of that.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From dan@awherbals.com Thu Mar 06 09:04:51 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Colitis

From: Dan <dan@awherbals.com>

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 23:04:51 -0800



On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:58:18 -0500, Bill Jacobson <williamj@nac.net> wrote:



>

> A friend of mine has bouts of eruptive colitis, sometimes , as right now, 

> so



Demulcent herbs as others have said are really important.. Changing diet 

also.. However one of the best remedies out there for ucerative colitis is 

canadian fleabane (Conyza canadensis).. However make sure it is in a 

program with supportive constitutional Tonics and lifestyle changes or it 

and other remedies will wear out and make things much more difficult.



Good luck..



Dan McDonley



From redden@viriditasherbalproducts.com Wed Mar 05 22:38:41 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Black and blue foot

From: "John Redden Viriditas" <redden@viriditasherbalproducts.com>

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:38:41 -0500



Hi Robin et al,

When there is a haematoma and the skin is unbroken then paint the bruised

area with tincture of Arnica montana 1:5 (20%). An arnica fomentation

covered with cellophane  for an hour each day is stronger. If the tincture

is irritating the skin then dilute it as far as another 20% i.e. 5mL

tincture (20%) in 95mL water to make 100mL. Soak cloth with this and bind to

area loosely and cover. Keep in place one hour.



Also alternate foot soaks in hot and cold water. 2 basins 5 minutes each

upto 30 min/day.

This will improve circulation to the area.



Fresh or dried comfrey (Symphytum off.) poultice for tissue damage.



Internally drink a decoction of comfrey, nettles (Urtica dioica) and

horsetail (Equisetum arvence). Add 30mL cider vinegar to 1L water to

slightly acidify it. This will improve its mineral content and your

absorption. Sweeten with unsulfurred molasses and you have a good tissue &

bone building tea. Good luck. John



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Thu Mar 06 00:31:49 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Black and blue foot

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:31:49 -0500



I'd recommend a combined tincture of Solomon's Seal Root & Horsetail, 

perhaps a bit of Comfrey along with it.  Mullein might be a good idea as 

well.  Half the bottle should be Solomon's Seal.  I can't state enough how 

well this has worked for me in many cases of fractures that couldn't be 

casted.  I believe even taking the Solomon's Seal alone would be VERY 

beneficial.  A good dosage would be 5-10 drops, 3-5x daily.



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Thu Mar 20 13:05:01 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Black and blue foot

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:05:01 -0500 (EST)



from "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>:



> I'd recommend a combined tincture of Solomon's Seal Root & Horsetail, 

> perhaps a bit of Comfrey along with it.  Mullein might be a good idea as 

> well.  Half the bottle should be Solomon's Seal.  I can't state enough how 

> well this has worked for me in many cases of fractures that couldn't be 

> casted.  I believe even taking the Solomon's Seal alone would be VERY 

> beneficial.  A good dosage would be 5-10 drops, 3-5x daily.



Jim, where do you get Solomon's Seal herb or tincture?  This herb seems

difficult or impossible to find commercially, though I saw Solomon's Seal root

in an Oriental grocery store, don't know if they still have it, also don't know

if it's the same species known in the USA as Solomon's Seal.



From HerbalSW@aol.com Thu Mar 06 03:13:33 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] (no subject)

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 20:13:33 EST



Here's a question for y'all

I have a 4 week old infant who has baby acne.  The regular books say simply 

mild soap and water and nothing else.

Skin stuff is about liver and her oil glands are staring to work.  Any 

thoughts on how to address this rapidly changing and ever growing beautiful, 

yet, zit faced kid o' mine? I am breast feeding her so could do stuff via the 

breast milk...

Thanks in advance?



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From MARDI2GRAS@aol.com Thu Mar 06 07:36:02 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: MARDI2GRAS@aol.com

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 00:36:02 EST



have a friend that is addicted to opiate drugs. what can I advise him to do 

and take to detox and help with the pain of coming off these drugs. Has been 

doing them for about 6 months. snorting oxi cotton, up to 20 crushed pills a 

day. second bout with addiction, quit for 4 months and started up again. your 

compassion and knowledge would be appreciated.



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Thu Mar 06 07:56:26 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 00:56:26 EST



In a message dated 3/6/2003 12:37:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

MARDI2GRAS@aol.com writes:

> have a friend that is addicted to opiate drugs. what can I advise him to do 

> and take to detox and help with the pain of coming off these drugs. Has 

> been 

> doing them for about 6 months. snorting oxi cotton, up to 20 crushed pills 

> a 

> day. second bout with addiction, quit for 4 months and started up again. 

> your 

> compassion and knowledge would be appreciated.

> 

Hello ~



While there are protocols and supplements that assist (and I use the word 

loosely) in helping with addiction, my suggestion is that your friend needs 

to go through a 30-60 day treatment program.



We, who treat addictions, see it as three-fold:  a physical, mental, and 

spiritual addiction.  While many at-home addicts try to do-it-themselves, 

they cheat themselves of the mental and spiritual counseling they need.  

Plus, if your friend is not ready there is no herb one can take to help them 

quit.



Oxy-contin is a very potent drug to withdraw from and this definitely should 

be done in a professional setting.



Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From dan@awherbals.com Thu Mar 06 09:02:02 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: Dan <dan@awherbals.com>

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 23:02:02 -0800



On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 00:56:26 EST, <Herbgrow30@aol.com> wrote:



> In a message dated 3/6/2003 12:37:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

> MARDI2GRAS@aol.com writes:

>> have a friend that is addicted to opiate drugs. what can I advise him to 

>> do and take to detox and help with the pain of coming off these drugs. 

>> Has been doing them for about 6 months. snorting oxi cotton, up to 20 

>> crushed pills a day. second bout with addiction, quit for 4 months and 

>> started up again. your compassion and knowledge would be appreciated.

>>



Avena and Eschscholzia are two herbs that can be helpful in a program. Also 

there is an herb i have been experimenting called  Kratom (Mitragyna 

speciosa) that apparently hits all the opiate receptors and can help with 

withdrawl.. Let me know privately if you need info on where to get this 

plant.



Good luck with this and make sure before you invest the time and energy 

into this that they are asking for your help. Trying to help someone who 

has not reached out can be very hard on both of you.



If you get a chance look up any info you can find from Donna Odierna, she 

has a lot of experience in the Oakland Free Clinc with opiate addictions.



Dan



From hetta@spamcop.net Thu Mar 06 11:13:32 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 11:13:32 +0200



On Thursday 06 March 2003 07:36, MARDI2GRAS@aol.com wrote:

> have a friend that is addicted to opiate drugs. what can I advise him to do 

> and take to detox and help with the pain of coming off these drugs. Has been 

> doing them for about 6 months. snorting oxi cotton, up to 20 crushed pills a 

> day. second bout with addiction, quit for 4 months and started up again. 

your 

> compassion and knowledge would be appreciated.



You want to get Phil Rasmussen's articles on opiate (and benzodiazepine) 

withdrawal - they were published twice, once in the European Journal of 

Herbal Medicine, once in the Modern Phytotherapist. The EJHM articles are 

online -- see my links page if you don't have the EJHM site bookmarked. You 

could also look for anything written by Donna Odierna, who is perhaps _the_ 

expert on herbal drug withdrawal, these days.



You want vitamins - LOTS of vitamins. Do a double dose of multivitamins, add a 

double dose of a good B-complex, and in addition to that, do C-vitamin to 

bowel tolerance - every day, for a few months.



Herbs - do liver herbs according to constitution (I call this "detox tea"); do 

silybum (this also helps the liver); do high quality kava for the anxiety; 

and do vitex for when the cravings get to be too much. 



Essential fatty acids won't hurt, either; try evening primrose oil - double 

the dose given on the package.



In addition, and this is _very_ important: ask why he got addicted. What did 

the drug give him that he couldn't get in other ways? GIVE him that 

particular thing, or do your very best to do so. One of my clients said 

heroin (which is an opiate drug) gave him a clearness of mind he'd never had 

before ... the closest herb I could think of which would address this was 

gotu kola, so I gave him that.

If you don't address this your friend will be caught again very soon - because 

that drug gives him something he can't get elsewhere.

He'll also need to disconnect from his friends, the ones who got him the 

drugs... moving a few hundred miles away should be extremely helpful.



And note, it's par for the course to slip back once or twice, even during 

detox, especially with hard drugs. Don't get upset, just start over. 



(Haah. _MY_ clients haven't slipped - at least, none of them have, so far.)



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Thu Mar 06 16:56:31 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 09:56:31 -0500



>have a friend that is addicted to opiate drugs...



My heart goes out to you.  One of my best friends, as well, has fallen into 

heroine and cocaine, together, intravenously.  The simple truth is that its 

going to be ~entirely~ up to your friend whether he can recover or not, and 

if he can, what the cost to himself and his relationships will be.  While I 

understand, very empathetically, your deep desire to help him out I'm also 

going to offer you the practical and important advice of being very careful 

about what you let him bring into your life.  People who are drowning often 

take with them the people who try to rescue them.  Drug addicts steal, lie 

and are wrapped up in such a severe form of self abuse that they really 

don't have the perspective to understand how badly they can hurt the other 

people in their life... all they care about is getting back to that numbed 

out place where they can escape their pain.  They're delusional... when they 

start getting clean they'll often think that they can use again, but they'll 

just do so "less often"... really believing they could.  In counseling my 

friend, whom I've known literally all my life, he said to me that he really 

didn't even care about dying... that it'd just be a release.  Not much to 

work with, eh?



Using herbs as an adjunct to treatment needs to consist of addressing the 

affects of withdrawl and on nourishing the body.  Alteratives and 

adapteogens such as Burdock, Siberian Ginseng, Astragalus, Nettles and Milky 

Oats will help to nourish him and rebalance metabolic functions.  Something 

bitter, like Dandelion or Oregon Grape, may help to reestablish an appetite, 

if he's lost that.  DON'T Colon clease, DON'T go on a detoc fast, DON'T do 

ANYTHING to the body that isn't gentle.



For the withdrawl symptoms, herbs like Arnica, Boneset, Blue Vervain and 

Black Cohosh will help with the aches & pains, and Cramp Bark and your 

choice of antispasmodic nervines.  Use other herbs as symptoms indicate.



Again, though, all the helpful plants in the world won't do anything unless 

your friend chooses to deal with whatever is pushing him into these drugs.  

While we western herbalists like to look at drug addiction as a chemical 

process, I think its much, much more influenced by the desire to escape from 

emotional pain.  If your friend fears the drugs less than whatever that pain 

is, the best you can do is pray for him.



I absolutely agree some sort of professional help would help immensely, 

whether that be a detox program or private therapy.



Again, I'll urge you to be VERY cautious with him.  Don't let him know where 

the key to your house is.  Very little sucks as bad in life as when your 

friend steals from you or screws up your life when you're trying to help 

him.



my prayers to you and your friend.



From hetta@spamcop.net Thu Mar 06 17:13:10 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:13:10 +0200



On Thursday 06 March 2003 16:56, jim mcdonald wrote:

> >have a friend that is addicted to opiate drugs...

> 

> My heart goes out to you.  One of my best friends, as well, has fallen into 

(snip)

> For the withdrawl symptoms, herbs like Arnica, Boneset, Blue Vervain and 

> Black Cohosh will help with the aches & pains, and Cramp Bark and your 

> choice of antispasmodic nervines.  Use other herbs as symptoms indicate.



Agreed on the most part, but on the aches and pains: they only show up if you 

don't do the vitamins (and EFAs, and zinc, and...). 

I _like_ getting phone calls that say "your herbs are miraculous -  I forgot 

to take them this morning, and boyo what a shitty day, and then I took them 

immediately when I got home, and was fine about 10 minutes later". 



And "Wow, your herbs are fabulous. None of my friends had it as easy as I 

did." 



Note, I credit the vitamins (and zinc, and other things found in a good 

multivitamin complex) as much as the herbs, here.



Also, caution is probably prudent on things like house keys; still, users 

aren't necessarily abusers, no matter how deeply they're stuck.



(And agreed, Dan: Esch is specific for opiate withdrawal - it binds to the 

same receptors in the brain as the opiates do, without the addiction or other 

side effects, therefore doing away with the cravings little by little. Avena 

is another excellent choice. Opiate addicts tend to have _severe_ 

constipation, too, but that goes away on its own, in time. Or perhaps a tad 

faster with lots and lots of plums ...)



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From HerbalSW@aol.com Thu Mar 06 23:44:49 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:44:49 EST



there is also an excellent protocol used in many hospitals and drug treatment 

center involving auricular acupuncture.  I have been trained in it and have 

seen it work miracles.  It is called the NADA protocol and I think there is a 

website explaining it and it's availability.  They also use an herbal tea to 

help the individuals relax during the 45 minute treatment session.

Catherine



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Fri Mar 07 00:12:52 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:12:52 EST



In a message dated 3/6/03 3:13:39 AM, hetta@spamcop.net writes:



<< and do vitex for when the cravings get to be too much. 



 >>



in what way does vitex help the cravings?  



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 07 07:39:05 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] need info please for drug detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 07:39:05 +0200



On Friday 07 March 2003 00:12, Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/6/03 3:13:39 AM, hetta@spamcop.net writes:

> 

>> and do vitex for when the cravings get to be too much. 

> 

> in what way does vitex help the cravings?  



It stops them.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Thu Mar 06 13:59:14 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] baby acne

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 06:59:14 -0500



My second had that-

I would suggest not using soap- and washing with ground herbs and

oatmeal(yarrow,chamomile,lavender)

I would also wash throughout the day with mild calendula tea.

Dusting with arrowroot is nice as well.



Cograts on your gift.



Michelle



From mwherbs@cox.net Thu Mar 06 14:42:55 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: baby acne

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 05:42:55 -0700



milia, the baby acne should be left alone there is pathology to it. 

there is no infection and no disease process here. You could cut the 

soap because how dirty does a baby really get?  Just bathe with 

water, diaper area may need a tiny bit of soap. A face scrub routine 

could really end up backfiring, babies tissues are very delicate and 

don't tolerate too much rough treatment. This is why even allopathic 

medicine goes for simple washing as well because there really isn't 

anything here that needs to be fixed.

  Now if you are seeing excessive inflammation or the acne is infected 

still simple washing, and depending on the rash either a calendula 

weak tea rinse or salve. In addition get rid of possible irritating 

substances like laundry soaps with dyes and smells, dryer sheets, 

which also seem to cause some women a great deal of trouble in 

pregnancy as well, what is touching the babies face all the time ?- 

you and your families clothes they too need to be smell and dryer 

sheet free. Are you using anything strong smelling on your skin, 

since you are breastfeeding the baby is also in touch with that all 

the time as well. And if you are in contact with anything you know 

you are allergic or sensitive to get rid of it, and this includes 

foods.

As for breastmilk, there are very Nutrients that are affected by 

mom's diet, but one big one is essential fatty acid content, so what 

are your sources of efas?

Most of us get way too much hydrogenated oils and not enough clean 

oils cook with a cold pressed oil, toss out the margarine unless it 

is the kind without hydrogenated oil. You may need to supplement-flax 

seed oil, evening primrose oil, black currant oil.

Sharon in Tucson

PS I started practicing midwifery aprox 21 yrs ago, currently working 

on an Arizona licensed.



From carlton47@earthlink.net Thu Mar 06 15:57:13 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [Herb] Re: baby acne

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 06:57:13 -0700



> Subject: [Herb] Re: baby acne

>

> milia, the baby acne should be left alone there is pathology to it. 

> there is no infection and no disease process here. 

 This is why even allopathic 

> medicine goes for simple washing as well because there really isn't 

> anything here that needs to be fixed.



Thanks for the voice of reason Sharon.  In addition to your suggestions, a

daily massage with a little sesame, pure olive, or coconot oil is a big

help.  All babies benefit from gentle massage and the oil nourishes the

delicate skin without clogging it up as is the problem with mineral oil

based oils.



As you noted Sharon, this isn't a pathological condition and it quickly

resolves (weeks to a few months).



Aliceann



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Thu Mar 06 16:27:35 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: baby acne

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 09:27:35 -0500



. A face scrub routine

> could really end up backfiring, babies tissues are very delicate and

> don't tolerate too much rough treatment.



I should have been more clear- I meant to put the herbs in a muslin cloth

and wash with the "milk" that they make- really, just let it drip on the

skin- no scrubbung involved. Yes, I agree, no soap...



Michelle



From Elfreem@aol.com Thu Mar 06 17:57:33 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: iodide ingestion following radioactive fallout

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:57:33 EST



Hi Mary,



I'm familiar with RAD Block but the most inexpensive KI I could find

is offered from Medichest.com (search for iodide). Not only do they

have 65mg tablets, but you can order KI by the pound. This may be

important for community minded individuals.



Off the top of my head, would cilantro good for anion chelation as well 

as cations (metals)? If so, it might be appropriate for iodide removal. 

Any thoughts?



Elliot



In a message dated 3/6/2003 3:15:38 AM Central Standard Time, 

herb-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes:



Good to see you again.  This is a topic I follow very carefully, living just 

outside of Washington, DC.  A year ago I ordered some potassium iodide 

through a reference who gave me a site.  It was called RAD BLOCK, and was 

sold wa KI4U.  The site was www.ki4u.com.  They also have a whole print-out 

they give for taking this product.  It's way to lengthy to put up here.  It's 



very expensive now because of all of the publicity so be aware.

   (snip)



   One herb comes to mind for environmental toxicity and that is our 

Chaparral.  

   It is a mid western herb growing here in the U.S.  I know as a flower 

essence 

   many use it for cleansing from many environmental hazards.

   (snip)



From Juliesjames@aol.com Sat Mar 08 08:18:50 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Re: iodide ingestion following radioactive fallout

From: Juliesjames@aol.com

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 01:18:50 EST



In a message dated 3/6/03 7:58:20 AM, Elfreem@aol.com writes:



>Off the top of my head, would cilantro good for anion chelation as well

>as cations (metals)? If so, it might be appropriate for iodide removal.

>Any thoughts?



According to Bill Mitchell, the whole Cilantro/chelation issue is highly 

suspect. He says that the theory has evolved from only one case, and that 

both the presence of and the elimination of the mercury were only tested 

by-oh heck I cant remember now, but something like muscle testing or another 

type of evaluation that was rather lacking in specifics; no disrespect meant 

to them that believe in it-but such results arent anything on which to base a 

heavy metal detox protocol, ya know?

Any more information on this? My info comes from a workshop he gave, but as 

there wasnt discussion involved, I have no other info than what he offered.



Julie



From adriane_aleel@yahoo.com Fri Mar 07 02:30:12 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Menopause and St. Johns Wort

From: Adriane <adriane_aleel@yahoo.com>

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:30:12 -0800 (PST)



A few days ago there was a discussion on herbs

that help menopause. I did not see St. Johns Wort

mentioned. I tried several thing when going

through menopause myself ....like red

clover,cohosh, soy etc. I found St. Johns Wort

worked wonderfully for me. It helped with the

mood swings, sleep problems, etc. Has anyone else

found St. Johns Wort beneficial during menopause?

My thyroid also went haywire shortly after I

started into menopause. I have talked to many

other women my age, and that does seem to be a

quirky side effect of menopause for quite a few

of us. I know you probably won't find that in the

books anywhere, but that has been my experience

and quite a number of my friends as well. Any

thoughts? What is happening in our bodies besides

loss of hormone? Could the estrogen have been

protecting the thyroid in some way? If we are on

thyroid meds we can't take soy because it blocks

the thyroid absorption. Out of 5 of my frinds

going through menopause 4 of us had hypothyroid

problems as well. Just thought I would mention

that in case someone wants to do a study, or

maybe knows of one that has already been done.All

I can say is thank heaven for the St.Johns Wort,

it really helped me.



Adriane



From elementalclay@webtv.net Fri Mar 07 08:02:16 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Vitex, detox

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 00:02:16 -0600 (CST)



Henriette,

  Does vitex reduce cravings for other addictions such as tobacco or

alcohol or just opiates?

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 07 08:59:21 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Vitex, detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:59:21 +0200



On Friday 07 March 2003 08:02, Roxanne Brown wrote:

> Henriette,

>   Does vitex reduce cravings for other addictions such as tobacco or

> alcohol or just opiates?



... try it.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From elementalclay@webtv.net Fri Mar 07 09:01:01 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Vitex, detox

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:01:01 -0600 (CST)



Okay, Henriette, I'll give vitex a try for smoking.  What do you think

for dosage?

Ground in caps or tincture or?

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 07 09:48:36 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Vitex, detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:48:36 +0200



On Friday 07 March 2003 09:01, Roxanne Brown wrote:

> Okay, Henriette, I'll give vitex a try for smoking.  What do you think

> for dosage?



10-15 drops of tincture whenever you can't resist the urge. 

Or chew on a seed whenever you can't resist the urge. 



I wouldn't do caps - waste of good herbs, you need much less than is found in 

a capsule for it to work.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From lgsekula@mail.joimail.com Fri Mar 07 15:10:13 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: vitex and cravings

From: Gaye Sekula <lgsekula@mail.joimail.com>

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 07:10:13 -0600



I'm sorry I have missed what vitex stops the craving for. Would someone 

please enlighten me? Thanks, Gaye



From sc62@charter.net Fri Mar 07 18:17:01 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Propolis

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:17:01 -0500



I was wondering if anyone has any experience, or thoughts about propolis. I

know that it is not an herb, but  a beehive product, a resin, but it is

listed along with all the other bulk herbs in some of the major herb

suppliers.



It's said to be an anti-bacterial, anti-inflammatory, a natural antibiotic,

strengthens the thymus gland that influences the immune system, etc.



I'm looking for something for basically for infections and inflammations,

internal and external.



It is quite expensive, 22.00 1/4 lb or 57.75 for a lb.



Or are there herbs that would substitute as well?



Has anyone tinctured it?



Thanks.

Sandra



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Fri Mar 07 19:28:17 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Propolis

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:28:17 -0500



>I was wondering if anyone has any experience, or thoughts about propolis.



Indispensable.  I can't think that there could be any replacement for 

Propolis... and in fact, it is herbal, being made by bees from trees saps & 

resins.  The only way to really use it is as a tincture... I do 1:4, with 

straight grain alcohol... Propolis is entirely insoluable in water and using 

diluted alcohol will be less potent.  Judging by the smell of the leftover 

Propolis after you drain your tincture, I'd guess you could extract it at 

least twice, though I haven't done so yet.



You can chew on it, too, but it'll make those red "swedish fish" candies 

look slippery in comparison, sticking to your teeth for days.  Ironically, 

as it inhibits the bacteria that cause tooth decay, this isn't such a bad 

thing...



It's ~excellent~ for treating infections, especially sore throat; if you 

squirt it right into the back of your throat it'll coat the inflammed 

tissues & STAY THERE, not being washed away by salive for quite a while.  

The flavor/aroma is clearing to the head, and decongesting.



Propolis is antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal, antiallergenic, 

antioxidant, antiblah blah blah...  AND it contains all the known vitamins 

except vitamin K and all the minerals needed by the body except sulfur.



Propolis also makes a GREAT band aid.  Simply apply to a cut (after you've 

stopped the bleeding, perhaps with a bit of Yarrow or Witch Hazel) and 

breathe on it till it dries.  Repeat till you have two or three coats.  

It'll seal & disinfect the wound, and promote quicker healing... WORKS GREAT 

for cuts on the fingers, toes, or other areas you can't bandage or poultice 

that well.



I've been pondering making a "bee salve", using only Propolis, Beeswax & 

Honey, but haven't yet gotten around to it... I don't have a recipe, I was 

just going to "wing" it.  Maybe it'd "bee" good for "hives"... hee hee.  If 

it worked well, it'd probably cause quite a "buzz", eh?  Maybe I'll test it 

on my "honey"...



My favorite method of using Propolis (the most fun one, too, as much as my 

bad puns...) is in what I call...



COCOA BUZZ:

Ingredients (for one cup):

1 spoonfull Unsweetened Cocoa Powder (Non-Irradiated/Organic)

1 spoonfull Organic/Wildflower Honey

Propolis Extract (about 30 drops - 1 squirt - or to taste)

Enough hot water to fill a mug



Optional flavorings:

A teaspoon (or so) Royal Jelly

A pinch of Cayenne (traditional Aztec admixture)

A pinch of Nutmeg

A Pinch of Orange Zest

A bit of Vanilla extract

Substitute Blackberry or some other flavored Honey (very good), Simmer 

Blackberries in some blackberry honey, or for a real kick, Blackberry 

liquor... your imagination is all that limits the possibilities.



To prepare:

Put a scoop of Cocoa Powder in a mug, add more or less an equal amount of 

Honey (you can adjust the Cocoa-to-Honey ratio to make the drink sweeter, or 

more bitter, if you prefer), a squirt of Propolis Extract, and any optional 

flavorings.   Add hot water and drink up.



Leaving out the Propolis and focusing on the cocoaC those with a sweet tooth 

can simply simmer some fresh berries in some honey, add some cocoa powder, 

stir it up into a syrup and pour over vanilla ice cream... sinfully good.  

Or "paint" it onto a friend... that's sinfully good too...



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Thu Mar 20 13:05:10 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Propolis

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:05:10 -0500 (EST)



Excerpt from "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>:



> It's ~excellent~ for treating infections, especially sore throat; if you 

> squirt it right into the back of your throat it'll coat the inflammed 

> tissues & STAY THERE, not being washed away by salive for quite a while.  

> The flavor/aroma is clearing to the head, and decongesting.



> Propolis is antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal, antiallergenic, 

> antioxidant, antiblah blah blah...  AND it contains all the known vitamins 

> except vitamin K and all the minerals needed by the body except sulfur.



Would propolis be good for an allergic throat tickle?  Might there be danger of

being or becoming allergic to something in the propolis?  Would the best means

of application be to squirt the tincture?



From sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de Sat Mar 08 20:01:58 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Propolis

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:01:58 +0100



> I was wondering if anyone has any experience, or thoughts about propolis.

----------

Hard to find/get the unadultered raw propolis (commercial stuff is often

laced with other powders to make it 'powdery) but I wouldn't be without.

Its invaluable for anything you can imagine, external and internal, for

first aid and fighting any type of bug.



Alas, expensive, and needs to be tinctured with very high percentage alcohol

(at least 180 proof, but the higher the better, I use 96%)



Sorcy



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Fri Mar 07 19:32:51 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Arnica

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:32:51 -0500



>It's a herb best used externally or homeopathically. For pretty much the 

>same

>effect you could try SJW... internally, too.



I replaced my homeopathic arnica with a dry flower tincture (fresh dried, 

less than a week from harvest), and I'd NEVER go back to Homeopathic.  Small 

doses, 5-15 drops, have worked far better than Homeopathic pellets ever have 

for me.  Mixed 50/50 with water, it seemed to work better than cremes I've 

used, as well, though not quite as easy to work with.



It's got a weirdly creepy yet beckoning taste as well...



From niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Sat Mar 08 00:16:17 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Arnica

From: "Niamh" <niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:16:17 -0000



From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>



I wonder what the plant arnica would

> > do in decoction.

>

> Don't. In large doses it shoves all your blood to the periphery, leaving

> nothing for the heart... you go into shock.

>

> It's a herb best used externally or homeopathically. For pretty much the

same

> effect you could try SJW... internally, too.

>

I recently met a Mexican lady who told me her grandad used to make "syrups"

of arnica flowers and dispense it to everyone, even pregnant women or any

one who needed it. It made me wonder what actually happened to make it such

a dangerous herb? If it is properly understood, is it not as safe as any

other herb? Makes me wonder if future generations will view Kava et al in

the same light (having been banned in the UK) I was glad to read your post

Jim, I recently bought some in a chemist a proper tincture, and was shocked

as it is supposed to be practitioner only here and we are not trained how to

use it internally at all, not even out of historical interest.



Namh



From hetta@spamcop.net Sat Mar 08 08:51:45 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org,

 Niamh <niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Arnica

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 08:51:45 +0200



Niamh wrote:

> I recently met a Mexican lady who told me her grandad used to make "syrups"

> of arnica flowers and dispense it to everyone, even pregnant women or any

> one who needed it. It made me wonder what actually happened to make it such

> a dangerous herb? If it is properly understood, is it not as safe as any



... Mexican arnica is a Heterotheca - it's NOT Arnica sp.



Heterotheca is not a problem, internally.



And heterotheca is what you usually get when you buy bulk arnica (at least in 

the US), unless you use a supplier you can trust - or pick your own.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From honthaas1@centurytel.net Sat Mar 08 18:54:30 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Arnica

From: Veronica Honthaas <honthaas1@centurytel.net>

Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:54:30 -0700



>... Mexican arnica is a Heterotheca - it's NOT Arnica sp.

>

>Heterotheca is not a problem, internally.



Here in NW Montana we have lots of Arnica cordifolia. How does that compare 

medicinally to Arnica montana?



From hetta@spamcop.net Sat Mar 08 20:24:29 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Arnica

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:24:29 +0200



On Saturday 08 March 2003 18:54, Veronica Honthaas wrote:

> >... Mexican arnica is a Heterotheca - it's NOT Arnica sp.

> >Heterotheca is not a problem, internally.

> 

> Here in NW Montana we have lots of Arnica cordifolia. How does that compare 

> medicinally to Arnica montana?



All Arnica spp. can be used like Arnica montana. 



In fact, Arnica cordifolia is far better than A. montana if you're talking 

about picking it (or growing it) ... the cordifolia is found in large stands, 

the montana is single plants dotting the landscape. 



Also, don't restrict yourself to flowers only, pick the leaf, too. Unless 

you're picking for a buyer (who usually specify flower), in which case, 

you're _growing_ that there Arnica montana, aren't you? It's endangered 

wherever it's found in the wild.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Thu Mar 20 13:05:06 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Arnica

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:05:06 -0500 (EST)



> ... Mexican arnica is a Heterotheca - it's NOT Arnica sp.



> Heterotheca is not a problem, internally.



> And heterotheca is what you usually get when you buy bulk arnica (at least in 

> the US), unless you use a supplier you can trust - or pick your own.



> Henriette



I guess this solves the question of the arnica I saw in El Primo, a Latin (both

Mexican and Caribbean) grocery store that no longer exists.  I remember asking

what it was used for, how it was used, and if it was safe.  Now I see it might 

have been not the real thing.  They also sold small packages of other herbs

including gordolobo (which is mullein with stems and flowers), matarique and

tilo estrella (which looks exactly like Frontier's ternstroemia flowers, so I

figure it's the same genus and same plant part).



From sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu Fri Mar 07 20:19:32 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Re: Nettles infusion or tincture

From: Susan Marynowski <sumar@mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 13:19:32 -0500



The swirls on top of nettles infusion are the oil soluble components

floating on top of the watery solution. I presume it is the same with the

tincture, since that is partly a water-based extraction. Not sure what you

are using nettles tincture for, but infusion is the better way to take

nettles. Nettles tincture is sort of a waste of good herb and alcohol.

--Susan in Florida



Sorcy wrote:

>> While the liquid was a beautiful green, as she poured it into 

>> a bowl, there was almost a 'flourescent' swirl to it.  

>-----------------

>dishsoap residue????????????????



From cmaria@triton.net Fri Mar 07 20:40:35 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] Vitex

From: Christa-Maria <cmaria@triton.net>

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:40:35 -0600



How about he essential oil of vitex? I do know it works well for

menopausal problems, or for my daughter to ease her pains during her

menses,  but would it also have the same benefit as the seed or tincture

to relieve 'cravings'?

C-M



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 07 19:27:38 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Vitex

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:27:38 +0200



Christa-Maria wrote:

> How about he essential oil of vitex? I do know it works well for

> menopausal problems, or for my daughter to ease her pains during her

> menses,  but would it also have the same benefit as the seed or tincture

> to relieve 'cravings'?



Sorry, I don't do essential oils... so I have no idea.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk Sat Mar 08 00:04:17 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Bladder Spasms

From: "Niamh" <niamh@nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:04:17 -0000



From: Alaena Diamon <alaena@diamon-naturals.com>



> I have a friend who is having bladder spasms and this creates

incontinence.



I'd try Kava if you live somewhere that it hasn't been banned, I know it

helps incontinence associated with MS and is relaxant and antiseptic to

boot. I'd combine it with Viburnum prunifolium and whatever else is

indicated for her personally. Maybe she needs magnesium or something, just a

thought.

Namh



From Tsadi@aol.com Sat Mar 08 03:34:21 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Bladder Spasms

From: Tsadi@aol.com

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 20:34:21 EST



In a message dated 03/07/2003 4:59:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

alaena@diamon-naturals.com writes:



> I don't know what the prescription meds are... so it needs to be an herbal

> preparation that would not interfere with any meds she's on.



you can check, but in my experience, juniper berries have been very helpful 

with bladder problems.

elizabeth



From dan@awherbals.com Sat Mar 08 04:38:06 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Bladder Spasms

From: Dan <dan@awherbals.com>

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:38:06 -0800



I would suggest some Lobelia and Ammi visnaga in a tonic as well as some 

demulcent herbs in tea like licorice and marshmallow and some peppsissiwa 

to tighten up the membranes. With the tea blend add some mullein root, 

according to micheal moore it strengthens the Trigone muscle which helps 

incontinence.



Also with any spasms try a Calcium Magnesium supplement.



Dan McDonley



On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:59:35 -0600, Alaena Diamon <alaena@diamon- 

naturals.com> wrote:



> I have a friend who is having bladder spasms and this creates 

> incontinence.

> She's on a medication from the doctor to treat this, but it's causing her

> more problems!  Are there herbs that can safely be taken that might help? 

> I

> don't know what the prescription meds are... so it needs to be an herbal

> preparation that would not interfere with any meds she's on.  She is in 

> her

> 70s, I believe... maybe late 60s.

> Alaena

> www.diamon-naturals.com



-- 

"The Divine is not something high above us. It is in heaven, it is in 

earth, it is inside of us." - Morihei Ueshiba.



From NEHrbSup@aol.com Sat Mar 08 16:12:48 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] Bladder Spasms

From: NEHrbSup@aol.com

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:12:48 EST



In a message dated 3/7/2003 4:59:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

alaena@diamon-naturals.com writes:



> I have a friend who is having bladder spasms ...(snip)       Are there herbs 

> that can safely be taken that might help?



First and foremost  - marshmallow root tea - double decocted for 15 minutes 

each time and allowed to cool completely in between - 1/2 ounce root to the 

pint.  Really does a nice job of relaxing soft tissue  drink at least a quart 

a day til the problem goes away - then look for he cause of the spasms - my 

guess would be infection or urinary tract irritant that has been introduced 

or increased  since the problem manifested itself.  Look to things that may 

have turned the urine a bit less acedic allowing infection to kick up.  Both 

marshmallow and cranberry will increase kidney acidity.  Cranberry 

concentrate in gel form is a good one if you can't find a "pure" cranberry 

juice that has been sweetened to make it more palatable.  A bunch of 

blueberries - frozen or canned if you can't find fresh which is near 

impossible this time of year - is a super anti-oxidant wich wil clear out any 

oxiodative damage byproducts that have added to the problem.  - No coffee or 

green/black tea , pre\ocessed foods (becaue of the garbage they contain, 

"soda" diet or otherwise, 



A litle birch leaf and/ or buch leaf, uva ursi, usnea, zea mays tea - 

separately or in any combination - as an infused tea will help tonify and 

clean out the whole kidney to bladder urinary tract after things calm down. 



Hope this helps.

peter 



Peter Byram, CNC, Herbalist

New England Herbal 

299 Jagger Lane

Hebron, Connecticut 06248

860-228-9199  -  Fax 860-228-9399



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Sat Mar 08 00:18:45 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Rhodiola rosea

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 17:18:45 -0500



I know this has been asked about here previously- and I just came across an

article on Michael Tierras site -

www.planetherbs.com

click on articles, scroll down to rhodiola



Michelle



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Sat Mar 08 04:16:55 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] animals and herbs

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 21:16:55 EST



does anyone have ideas for good sites to view info on herbs for animals, 

particularly farm animals?  anything that someone found to be invaluable?



From elementalclay@webtv.net Sat Mar 08 04:56:05 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] animals and herbs

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 20:56:05 -0600 (CST)



Try www.sweetmeadowherb.com for horses.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From elementalclay@webtv.net Sat Mar 08 06:42:08 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] animals and herbs

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:42:08 -0600 (CST)



I incorrectly posted a website.  The proper address for horses and herbs

is

www.meadowherbs.com

My apology.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From MARDI2GRAS@aol.com Sat Mar 08 17:54:39 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] grateful

From: MARDI2GRAS@aol.com

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 10:54:39 EST



for everyone's time and knowledge in helping me with the drug detox problem. 

I followed through with more research on what you offered. I feel the friend 

needs to go to a clinic, but claims you are " marked for lfe", or afraid of 

records. That isn't true is it? They have private status, correct? thanks 

again.



From HerbsAcadiana@aol.com Sat Mar 08 19:55:11 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] grateful

From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:55:11 EST



In a message dated 3/8/2003 9:55:13 AM Central Standard Time, 

MARDI2GRAS@aol.com writes:



> for everyone's time and knowledge in helping me with the drug detox problem. 

> 

> I followed through with more research on what you offered. I feel the 

> friend 

> needs to go to a clinic, but claims you are " marked for lfe", or afraid of 

> 

> records. That isn't true is it? They have private status, correct? thanks 

> again.

> 



Most forms you fill out ask if you have ever been treated for a psychiatric 

problem, what health problems/history you have had, including drug addiction, 

etc.  And that's just connected with things like employment and medical 

insurance. Hospital admission history forms taken by the admitting 

nurse/physician also include those questions. The clue here is "treated."  

Sometimes it is phrased as "suffered from."  Believe me it shows up 

somewhere, sometime, but better treated than dead, damaged or insane.



It's like the phrase "Have you ever been ACCUSED of child abuse."  It's even 

on Boy Scout forms for volunteers.  Not convicted, mind you, just accused.



Any application for insurance, etc., will also contain a consent agreement to 

allow them to access your medical information as a condition to coverage.



There is no such thing as true privacy when it comes to medical records and 

I've worked in the medical field for over 40 years.  There are plenty of ways 

around it. You can sue later if they release your information without your 

consent, but good luck on that.  Now if you were trying to get your very own 

medical information released to you for some reason you will think I'm lying. 

 :-)



There have been proposals put forth to be able to get treatment for drug 

addictions under an assumed name or number to protect identity and let more 

people seek help.  So far, they haven't been able to pass them.



Henrietta (Traiteusse)



From mterry@snet.net Sat Mar 08 20:52:02 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] grateful

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:52:02 -0500



HerbsAcadiana@aol.com wrote:



> Most forms you fill out ask if you have ever been treated for a psychiatric

> problem, what health problems/history you have had, including drug addiction,

> etc.  And that's just connected with things like employment and medical

> insurance.



If they ask those questions in the U.S., they are in violation of the Americans

with Disabilities Act of 1990.



Off-topic, so nuff said.



May

--

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From sc62@charter.net Sat Mar 08 21:21:32 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Re: Animals and Herbs

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 14:21:32 -0500



Try:



http://www.7mfarm.com



They deal with herbs for livestock, farm animals and pets.



Sandra



From Drolma@aol.com Sat Mar 08 21:55:14 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] herb essential oil smoke

From: Drolma@aol.com

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 14:55:14 EST



So right, Henrietta, arnica !

These herbs facilate the strangest physical responses in

different forms.



Here is a question:  Essential oil of rosemary in incense.



I  put rosemary essential oil on a burning carcoal and got a thick

almost dry-ice-like smoke.  Maybe 30 drops, maybe more.

within hours i had a very itchy rash start at the chest and 

spread up to my face first and then over two days down to

my feet.  Was it the rosemary or something else.



So, question is:  where is there information on essence smoke?



pam



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Thu Mar 20 13:05:08 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] herb essential oil smoke

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:05:08 -0500 (EST)



from Drolma@aol.com:



> Here is a question:  Essential oil of rosemary in incense.



> I  put rosemary essential oil on a burning carcoal and got a thick

> almost dry-ice-like smoke.  Maybe 30 drops, maybe more.

> within hours i had a very itchy rash start at the chest and 

> spread up to my face first and then over two days down to

> my feet.  Was it the rosemary or something else.



> So, question is:  where is there information on essence smoke?



> pam



I am not familiar with the effects of rosemary essential oil smoke, but 

essential oils are strong stuff.  You can get more information in newsgroup

alt.aromatherapy, and this applies also to Christa-Maria's question on vitex

essential oil.  I'd be worried about creating a sensitivity and not being able

to use rosemary essential oil or possibly even rosemary herb any longer.



I don't use incense; never really liked it, and not good for a tender 

respiratory system.  Late in December 1996, after Christmas, I was in an office

where somebody was burning incense, just cheap store junk.  I felt my breathing

partially suppressed but was relieved within a minute after getting back

outdoors where the temperature was 42 F (between 5 and 6 C).



I am delayed having to go through all the email and newsgroup downloads, and by

the aftershocks of that fish that was so hard on my respiratory system.



From joycew@triton.net Sun Mar 09 01:54:42 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [Herb] FDA herb/supplement proposed manufacturing guidlines

From: joycew@triton.net

Date: Sat,  8 Mar 2003 18:54:42 -0500 (EST)



Well, they're here - the FDA in its incessant kowtowing to corporate pressure has announced its proposed guildeines for manufacturing of herbs and supplements... aka "if you can't play in the lab with the big boys, get out of the kitchen.... literally.  



Read more on the story from MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/882166.asp



then you can go to the FDA's home page:

http://www.fda.gov/default.htm



click on top article under FDA news: FDA Proposes Labeling and Manufacturing Standards for All Dietary Supplements

>From there you can click on the link to read the proposal (547 pages -am working on it myself), and their background and fact sheets.



You can then either return to the FDA homepage and scroll down to the leave public comment link, or go to:

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/voice.html to leave comment. 



FDA is taking public comment for 90 days.

JoyceW



From drkelly@icdc.com Sun Mar 09 05:35:00 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [Herb] Dry eyes?

From: "L Kelly" <drkelly@icdc.com>

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 22:35:00 -0500



What do you do for dry eyes?



Drinking cod liver and flax oils, slippery elm, burdock root and marshmallow

teas seem to help a little.  Any other suggestions?



What can be used directly in eyes?



Happened suddenly.  Ideas for causes?      LK             drkelly@icdc.com



From mterry@snet.net Sun Mar 09 10:08:53 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org,

 L Kelly <drkelly@icdc.com>

Subject: Re: [Herb] Dry eyes?

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 03:08:53 -0500



L Kelly wrote:



> What do you do for dry eyes?

>

> Drinking cod liver and flax oils, slippery elm, burdock root and marshmallow

> teas seem to help a little.  Any other suggestions?



I have 'dry eye syndrome', silly-sounding, but nonetheless a recognized

diagnosis, often caused as it is in my case by wearing contact lenses.  My

ophthalmologist informed me of research that people who take flaxseed oil

experience a lessening of symptoms; he noticed that my symptoms had improved

greatly and asked me if I had been using flaxseed oil.  I told him no, but that

I had been taking Evening Primrose Oil, and he thought that that had probably

been the reason for improvement.



> What can be used directly in eyes?



I just carry saline solution with me, and keep my eyes lubricated with that.  If

there are herbs that will truly help, I'd love to hear about them.



May

--

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 06:52:52 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] ADMIN: Okay, we're up and running again.

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 06:52:52 +0200



Sorry guys, looks like anything you posted while we were away went into the 

bitbucket - don't know why. Please repost... thanks.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 07:37:00 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] ADMIN: Okay, we're up and running again.

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:37:00 -0500



>Sorry guys, looks like anything you posted while we were away went into the

>bitbucket - don't know why. Please repost... thanks.



darn... I'd written a very thorough treatise that covered how one could use 

herbs to live forever, become irresistable to the opposite (or the same, if 

that's your thing) sex, and break down radioactive waste to boot...

and I didn't bother to save it before I sent it out... dagnabit..



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 08:34:21 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] ADMIN: Okay, we're up and running again.

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:34:21 +0200



jim mcdonald wrote:



> >Sorry guys, looks like anything you posted while we were away went into the

> >bitbucket - don't know why. Please repost... thanks.

> 

> darn... I'd written a very thorough treatise that covered how one could use 

> herbs to live forever, become irresistable to the opposite (or the same, if 

> that's your thing) sex, and break down radioactive waste to boot...

> and I didn't bother to save it before I sent it out... dagnabit..



Oh darn. And I expect you've forgotten all about that irresistibility / 

anti-radioactivity herb now? 



We'll have to do without, I expect.



Me, I only I lost a piece about the herb that cures all cancer and another 

about a contraceptive herb that actually works. 



And my memory's completely wiped on those items as well. I blame the aliens.



Henriette (... now where's me tinfoil hat?)



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From sdkueff@mindspring.com Tue Mar 18 16:51:59 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Upside Down Herb Gardening

From: "Susan D. Kueffer" <sdkueff@mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 06:51:59 -0800



Hi herblisters!



At 06:52 AM 3/18/2003 +0200, you wrote:

>Sorry guys, looks like anything you posted while we were away went into the

>bitbucket - don't know why. Please repost... thanks.



Glad to hear we're up and running again.  Since there may be some who 

didn't get my post on upside down herb gardening techniques, here goes....



Hi all,



Sounds like you have a wonderful garden, Adriane!



At 03:10 PM 3/17/2003 -0800, you wrote:

 >>Ok I'll bite...What the heck is upside down gardening.<<



Glad you asked. It's a wonderful option, especially for those who have a 

limited amount of gardening space.



The plants grow out of a 3-inch hole cut in the bottom of a bucket. My 

buckets hang on the braces that support a 3-wire extension on the fence, 

but they can just as easily be hung from criss-cross boards on top of a 

post or tree stump. You can even use one of those oblong planter boxes 

(with several appropriately-spaced holes cut out of the bottom of them, and 

attached to a railing or wall, as long it's in a spot that gets good sun 

exposure.) Plant brackets, hung on the side of a building work well too, as 

long as they're anchored well. Tomatoes do especially well with this 

method, because they like plenty of warmth around their roots. Best of all, 

you don't have to stake them! Bush or vine variety...doesn't matter. I've 

done both. Peppers do well upside down too!



Herb gardens can be done the same way. A friend of mine did a mix-and-match 

thing with her herb garden. The entire garden was hung on a south-facing 

wall of her garage, located by a small patio near her kitchen. Very handy! 

All of the plants were growing in buckets....some of them growing out of 

the top, while others were growing out of the bottoms.



The planting method isn't too difficult. You just cut a 3-inch hole in the 

bottom of a bucket, cover it with a small piece of newspaper, and fill the 

bucket with your favorite potting mix. Cover the bucket with a small piece 

of wood (or the lid, if it's one of those 5-gallon buckets that comes with 

a lid). Flip the bucket over, and add a bit more potting mix, if needed, in 

the hole, and plant a seedling in it. Leave the bucket sitting this way, as 

you tend the plant, for about three weeks, or until the roots of the plant 

have become established, then flip the bucked upside down, remove the wood 

or lid, and hang it from the handle. Since the flipping and hanging is 

difficult for me, my neighbor does that part for me.



I've heard many people say, "I'd love to have an herb garden, but I just 

don't have room for one."



My answer to them is, "Where there's a will, there's a way."



All you need is a bit of imagination. The possibilities are endless. Go 

ahead. Try it! You'll like it!!!



Kevin...I've been growing upside down plants for years...and never had a 

single one of them die on me. I got loads of tomatoes from very few plants 

too! They always grow out of the bottom of the bucket, then the tips of the 

branches turn up toward the light.



Gardening on....

Susan



From victoria2@goeaston.net Tue Mar 18 17:03:25 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Victoria Satta <victoria2@goeaston.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:03:25 -0500



Good morning everyone...



This is a sad day in world history, but I guess life goes on.  I have a 

couple of questions:  what herbs and protocol do you recommend for managing 

candida, parasites and a colon cleanse?



Thank you,

Vicki Satta



From clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 18:37:30 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:37:30 -0600



I would use olive leaf. For detox, I am not sure. Somebody else?

Linda



From clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 18:43:14 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:43:14 -0600



I have an herb CD by Hoffman and it came up with eucalyptus for detox, tea 

tree for parasites.

Linda



From victoria2@goeaston.net Tue Mar 18 18:15:56 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Victoria Satta <victoria2@goeaston.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:15:56 -0500



At 10:43 AM 3/18/03 -0600, you wrote:



>I have an herb CD by Hoffman and it came up with eucalyptus for detox, tea 

>tree for parasites.



Thanks Linda!



So if you want to do candida, parasites and a general colon cleanse/detox, 

do you go recommend the candida treatment first for X amount of days and 

then the the parasites and detox/colon cleanse at the same time?



Thanks!



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 19:22:12 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:22:12 -0500



Whenever I see posts with the word "detox", I think how desperately people 

need to learn about the LONG TERM use of alteratives as nourishing, 

balancing, normalizing tonics.  Herbs like Burdock, Cleavers, Nettle & other 

alteraives are herbal foods that, when used ~consistantly~, often eliminate 

the need for flushes, purges, thises & thats.



Learning about the unique niches that individual alteratives fill allows you 

to customize a formula that will address whatever your "weak spots" are.  

For example, if stress and adrenal exhaustion are an issue, include Nettle & 

Oats, if lymphatic stagnation is an issue, include Cleavers or red root, if 

there's constipation, think about Yellow Dock, Dandelion or Oregon Grape.  

Burdock helps to normalize the activity of the sebaciuos glands; Hawthorne 

improves the function of a weak heart.  If there are areas of more immediate 

concern, like septic infections, you can add Echinacea or Wild Indigo to the 

formula till they're cleared up...



These are just some examples, not a blueprint.  Learn what these herbs do 

and how to use them to treat your individual situation, and you'll be able 

to get a LOT farther than doing X number of days on this detox formula or 

that colon cleanse... and don't even get me started on gall bladder flushes. 

  I repeat: using nourishing alteratives on a regular basis to tonify is 

MUCH more effective than following this or that detoc regime... there's a 

time and a place for such things, but its not as often as people do them.



From clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 19:23:29 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:23:29 -0600



I forgot what else you had asked.

For the colon cleanse Hoffman recommends cascara. I have done that and found 

it to be a little strong for me. I like to take psyllium better, about 2 

caps with alot of water.  Green leafy lettuce really helps alot in that 

area.

How do you know you need to do the detox and the parasite cleanse? Is is a 

liver detox?? For parasites there is also black walnut hulls and wormwood. 

It is nasty tasting stuff though. You could do capsules.

Have you been out of the country, like in a 3rd world country? Is that why 

you need a parasite cleanse? I was thinking of doing a spring cleanse 

myself. Hadn't decided what to use exactly yet. I have heard olive leaf is 

good but it takes a few months of taking it for the candida. It is always 

good to do a liver cleanse, almost always.

Linda



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Tue Mar 18 21:48:36 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:48:36 -0500



Yes, like Jim, I am more in favor of supporting bodily systems, as opposed

to "detoxing".

Many of the detox regimes are harsh and leave the body in a weakened

state...

why not nurture and nourish and help the body to do what it knows how to do?



Michelle



From victoria2@goeaston.net Tue Mar 18 21:35:58 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Victoria Satta <victoria2@goeaston.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:35:58 -0500



At 02:48 PM 3/18/03 -0500, you wrote:



>Yes, like Jim, I am more in favor of supporting bodily systems, as opposed

>to "detoxing".



Michelle



I am interested in what you consider to be "supporting bodily systems" and 

how when the body cannot do it by itself (I think mine cannot)... then 

isn't detox the proper way to go?



>why not nurture and nourish and help the body to do what it knows how to do?



Of course, what you are saying sounds great, but does a body get to the 

point that it cannot handle this "stuff" anymore.  I have real problems 

with whatever is going on with me right now, and how do I determine an 

emergency strategy?



:-)



Thanks,

Vicki



From clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 19:28:22 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:28:22 -0600



I am glad you mentioned cleavers. I have been looking for an herb for my 

husband to cleanse his lymphatic system. I was thinking cleavers. Hoffman 

and some others also mention Poke root but I know that is strong medicine. 

His need for lymphatic herbs is evident in his iridoloy readings. He has 

been taking something from a certain company I won't name but it doesn't 

seem to be doing much. So when he runs out of the stuff I am going to try to 

talk him into the cleavers. He has trouble with moods and a little 

depression.  I think he needs a good alterative.



Anybody had any experience with Poke root? Thanks a million.

:) Linda



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 20:32:51 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:32:51 +0200



Victoria Satta wrote:

> I have a 

> couple of questions:  what herbs and protocol do you recommend for managing 

> candida, parasites and a colon cleanse?



That begs the question: how have you arrived at candida, parasites, and the 

need for a colon cleanse?



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From victoria2@goeaston.net Tue Mar 18 20:37:48 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Victoria Satta <victoria2@goeaston.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:37:48 -0500



>

>

>That begs the question: how have you arrived at candida, parasites, and the

>need for a colon cleanse?



Yes Henriette!  I have consulted with an herbalist on the parasites and the 

need for a colon cleanse.  I have some products, but I want to compare what 

I have with what you might suggest to be sure that I'm doing the right thing.



As far as the candida is concerned, I've had that confirmed by a medical 

intuitive. I've been reading a lot about it and my symptoms seem to agree 

with the candida.  Is there really any way to tell for sure?



Thanks!

Vicki



   



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 22:07:56 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:07:56 +0200



On Tuesday 18 March 2003 20:37, Victoria Satta wrote:

> >

> >That begs the question: how have you arrived at candida, parasites, and the

> >need for a colon cleanse?

> 

> Yes Henriette!  I have consulted with an herbalist on the parasites and the 

> need for a colon cleanse.  I have some products, but I want to compare what 

> I have with what you might suggest to be sure that I'm doing the right 

thing.

> 

> As far as the candida is concerned, I've had that confirmed by a medical 

> intuitive. I've been reading a lot about it and my symptoms seem to agree 

> with the candida.  Is there really any way to tell for sure?



Yes. Lab tests, from stool and/or blood, for both the candida and the 

parasites. Medical intuitives, shrug. Kinesiology, stay _far_ away from any 

kinesiologist who tells you that you have parasites. They want to sell you 

supplements, and they don't have a clue.



Anyway, what's called "parasites" is usually an inflammation in the ileo-cecal 

juncture... for which walnut is pretty much a specific. Along with getting 

rid of the _irritant_, which is found in your diet. So you do the 2-weeks 

completely without gluten-containing foods (check labels), then you eat 

normally for a week, then you do the 2-weeks completely without any milk 

whatsoever (check labels), then you eat normally, then skipe all and any 

Solanaceae for two weeks, and if it's none of those, do a food diary for a 

few weeks, to find the culprit.



As for parasites: there's lots of different ones, and you therefore have to 

know which you have (identified by _lab_ tests), before you can even begin to 

start to look for herbs to battle'em. Note that some things that are called 

parasites are in fact symbiotes - we feel better with them than without them.



Some do need battling. For giardia and the like you could try quassia, 

bitterwood, Pricrasma, or Picraena - they're herbally pretty much identical, 

even if they're not quite the same, botanically. And if you want to avoid 

picking up things like giardia in the first place you might want to keep some 

quassia chips in your drinking water. It'll get bitter -- but no amoebas.



For candida: do the candida diet, do things like Epilobium leaf (any species 

will do), help the liver, and do something about your immune system.



Colon cleanser, pass. I don't do colon cleansers.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From HerbalSW@aol.com Tue Mar 18 20:51:32 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:51:32 EST



Henriette:

I am suffering from post partum baby brain.  Did you post the specifics of 

your detox protocol and, if you didn't would you be willing to do so?

Thanks in advance

Catherine



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 21:09:12 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:09:12 +0200



HerbalSW@aol.com wrote:



Hi Catherine,



> I am suffering from post partum baby brain.  Did you post the specifics of 

> your detox protocol and, if you didn't would you be willing to do so?



I work along the same lines as Jim - I give lymphatics, kidney and liver herbs 

where needed. Lymphatics is cleavers, Bidens, oxeye daisy ... kidney herbs is 

nettle seed (with green greens (as opposed to black greens) attached), 

Solidago, Bidens, oxeye daisy. And I throw in liver herbs, according to liver 

type and liver health.



I like Bidens because it's abundant over here, even if it's rather good at 

hiding. Cleavers (Galium aparine and other clinging Galiums) is a nice weed 

in the vegetable garden and sometimes even in an overgrown lawn or two, and I 

use it interchangeably with yellow bedstraw (Galium verum). They grow in 

pretty different places: cleavers likes a bit of shade and rich moist soil, 

while yellow bedstraw likes full sun and dry poor soil.



And I've got a really good spot where I pick oxeye daisy. It's been planted 

years ago, the place abandoned, and the oxeye daisy has taken over. 

Therefore, it's easy to pick lots of it. I get that when I pick St. John's 

wort (over here that's mid-July - the SJW is beginning to flower, the oxeye 

daisy is on its last legs). Oxeye daisy is very pretty both as a flower and 

in tea.



Cheers

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From mwherbs@cox.net Tue Mar 18 20:09:41 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:09:41 -0700



>

>

>I like Bidens because it's abundant over here, even if it's rather good at

>hiding.



Hiding in your sox, pant legs, skirts....



Sharon in Tucson



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 21:56:02 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:56:02 +0200



Sharon Hodges-Rust wrote:



> >I like Bidens because it's abundant over here, even if it's rather good at

> >hiding.

> 

> Hiding in your sox, pant legs, skirts....



The seeds, sure. But the plant hides very well. You only know that there was 

Bidens on the meadow you just crossed when you look down to see all the seeds 

you caught.



Ta ta

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 22:33:25 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:33:25 -0500



>I am interested in what you consider to be "supporting bodily systems" and 

>how when the body cannot do it by itself (I think mine cannot)... then 

>isn't detox the proper way to go?



If your body is so taxed it can't help itself, ~my opinion~ is that 

gentleness is called for.  Detox diets & colon cleanses are often forceful 

and exert your body more, which sets you up for needing to do them every 

month or two... just what those who sell that stuff want.  When you think 

about the fact that most "Cancer Remedies" are blends of alteratives, and 

NOT Cascara Sagrada, Senna, Aloe & the like, it reinforces the notion that 

persistant gentleness accomplishes what forceful coersion cannot.



>Of course, what you are saying sounds great, but does a body get to the 

>point that it cannot handle this "stuff" anymore.  I have real problems 

>with whatever is going on with me right now, and how do I determine an 

>emergency strategy?



Tough question, over the internet.  First & formost is to stop doing things 

that exhaust and deplete you... often this goes far beyond diet and whether 

you drink coffee or not.  Behavior patterns, thought patterns, poor 

breathing habits, lack of rest, lack of exercise (repeat !!!lack of 

exercise!!!... nothing is as exhausting as not engaging in physical 

exertion)... you have to re-evaluate your diet to include everything you 

take in and process.



If you need to find a herbal formula without guided help, focus on herbs 

that are alterative & adaptogenic, avoid herbs with cautions until you 

understand why they have them and TAKE IT EASY.



Good luck...



From ngbard@juno.com Fri Mar 21 20:44:50 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:44:50 -0500



CD by Hoffman?

Publisher? Website?

Marcia

---



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 21 20:51:07 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:51:07 +0200



On Friday 21 March 2003 20:44, Marcia Grossbard wrote:

> CD by Hoffman?

> Publisher? Website?



>From the medicinal herbfaq:



The Herbalist, ver.2.0, by David L. Hoffmann, CD-Rom database, listprice USD 

54.95, DOS, Windows31, Mac.

Available from Hopkins Technology, 421 Hazel Lane, Hopkins, MN 55343-7116. 

Phone 612-931-9376 or 800-397-9211.

More info found at http://www.hoptechno.com/herbmm.htm.

"The Herbalist" was made before crosslinking really took off, but it has a 

nice index/search engine. It gives you fast access to thorough plant / 

ailment information. As a bonus there's pronounciations of some plant Latin - 

the British way. HeK evaluation: Excellent.

This is the best herbal therapeutics program on the market.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From sdkueff@mindspring.com Tue Mar 18 17:18:41 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Spring Silliness >:D

From: "Susan D. Kueffer" <sdkueff@mindspring.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:18:41 -0800



Ha!



At 08:34 AM 3/18/2003 +0200, you wrote:

>Me, I only I lost a piece about the herb that cures all cancer and another

>about a contraceptive herb that actually works.



Well, since my upside down planting method post made it through, I guess 

it'll fall on me to locate my long lost post about that herb that'll 

retrieve things that never got saved.  Only thing is, I can't remember 

where I put it.  Drat!  Guess I'm having one of those senior moments (or, 

is it a serious bout with senior long-term memory loss?).  >;)



>And my memory's completely wiped on those items as well. I blame the aliens.



Uh-huh...right.



>Henriette (... now where's me tinfoil hat?)



On your head.  (snicker).  Must be spring!



Susan



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 23:09:00 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Spring Silliness >:D

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:09:00 +0200



Susan D. Kueffer wrote:

> Well, since my upside down planting method post made it through, I guess 

> it'll fall on me to locate my long lost post about that herb that'll 

> retrieve things that never got saved.  Only thing is, I can't remember 

> where I put it.  Drat!  



Ah, but the question is, ... did you save it?



Oh, and why was the list down:



There was some trouble in the configuration for this list, and it was solved 

by moving everybody over to a "fresh" list. Unfortunately, some settings 

(like "nomail") got lost in the move.

And the ibiblio folks were rather reluctant to do this, because some things 

would get lost in the move, so they tried a host of other things first. 

Which is why we were down for such a long time.



Just in case some of you were wondering. 



I expect we'll be up far faster if it happens again (which I hope it won't). 



Note, though: herb-2 worked - no config troubles there.



Ta ta

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From sdkueff@mindspring.com Wed Mar 19 17:00:59 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Spring Silliness >:D

From: "Susan D. Kueffer" <sdkueff@mindspring.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:00:59 -0800



At 11:09 PM 3/18/2003 +0200, you wrote:

>Susan D. Kueffer wrote:

> > Well, since my upside down planting method post made it through, I guess

> > it'll fall on me to locate my long lost post about that herb that'll

> > retrieve things that never got saved.  Only thing is, I can't remember

> > where I put it.  Drat!

>

>Ah, but the question is, ... did you save it?



I sincerely hope so...but I can't for the life of me remember the filename 

I used for it. >;)



Susan



From brown.eyes@sympatico.ca Tue Mar 18 17:54:59 2003

To: <Herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Hormone help

From: "Roxane Kerr" <brown.eyes@sympatico.ca>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:54:59 -0500

--------

Hi, I was looking for some information regarding hormore regulators.  I

unfortunately have been getting 'medroxyprogestrone axetate' injections for

the past nine months.  I had many 'growths' and continuous bleeding.  The

injections were started as a compromise with my Doctor, I get them and they

don't cut me open to just look around!!

Well talk about forced menopause!  Fatigue, acne worse then my 14 year old,

sudden 'handles' I never had even after having five children!  Hotflashes,

migraines,mood swings every hour, bleeding for weeks on end.... and the list

goes on, OH and my hair is thinning!

The only good points I can think of for this synthetic drug is the 'growths'

seem to be shrinking and I can't get pregnant.

I asked the doctor about using herbs to help with the side effects without

reversing the reason I'm getting them and of course the Dr. looked at me

like I was speaking some strange language (note to self find Dr that

believes in natural health).

So, has anyone ever dealt with this before?  Any suggestions?  I'm only 34

and I'm beginning to feel 80 with being as tired as I am.

I presently take natural iron supplements to conteract the endless

bleeding....



I am open to any suggestions.  I don't want to be sliced up like a slab of

pork, nor do I want to live in a constant blah state...



Talk to me.....



Thank you in advance for digging around in books and checking this out for

me......



Roxane Kerr C.H.



From clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 18:35:51 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Hormone help

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:35:51 -0600



Run, don't walk to another doctor. I would start out with a mild woman's 

herb. The side effects are enough to scare me off. I am sure there is some 

people on this list that know what to tell you exactly. My prayers are with 

you.

Linda



From mwherbs@cox.net Tue Mar 18 18:42:43 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Hormone help

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:42:43 -0700



what are the "growths"? fibroids? before the doctor treated you did 

you have lab work done? the hormone that you are taking is 

progesterone- it puts limits on estrogen. So even with the 

progesterone you are still bleeding? What other procedures have you 

had done and how long has this been going on?

   The anemia you have plays a role in your fatigue, and blah 

feelings, also maybe the migraines.

    Susan Weed has an herbal menopause book that is probably 

applicable, I don't think you can expect an allopathic doctor to do 

much by way of "natural"If this guy is an OB-GYN even more so they 

are surgeons he may be treating you with meds but his real preference 

rather than fine tune is to do surgery that's his primary job 

probably what he likes most about it , very hands on -tactile and 

visual. If you are looking for some alternative approaches you need 

to find another kind of practioner like a naturopath, chiropractor in 

some states, midwife, clinical herbalist or research and do it 

yourself.

   My standard stop bleeding for any cause plant is yarrow and it is 

not going to fix your hormones but it may help to reduce the bleeding 

you are having.For the anemia, nettles, greens-atleast 1 cup/day 

(also supplies vitamin k), miso soup, molasses, liver, b vitamins. 

Stay hydrated it makes the difference between loosing rich blood or 

diluted blood.

diet, general health, family history,current meds or supplements you 

are taking. and lifestyle all need to be looked at.

    Go to the library and look at the herbal/natural menopause books 

they will have some info that could help.

Sharon in Tucson



From brown.eyes@sympatico.ca Tue Mar 18 21:21:44 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Hormone help

From: "Roxane Kerr" <brown.eyes@sympatico.ca>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:21:44 -0500



Thanks.

The 'growths' are fibroids and polyps...that is the extent to the

information I have been told.

I tried to explain to the doctor that my body doesn't even like simple

tylenol, let alone synthetic anything!

I've been dealing with profuse bleeding spells (for as long as 50 days at a

time) for over a year now...this progesterone was their solution, and if I

stop i get to go through the reverse or possibly worse for 6-8 months.

I know it's going to take a while to put everything back where it should be,

just hoping for helpful suggestions!  As a single mom with five kids, a job

and studying part time...I can't afford to be in slow motion all the time.



Thanks again

Roxane

----- Original Message -----

From: "Sharon Hodges-Rust" <mwherbs@cox.net>

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:42 AM

Subject: Re: [herb] Hormone help



> what are the "growths"? fibroids? before the doctor treated you did

> you have lab work done? the hormone that you are taking is

> progesterone- it puts limits on estrogen. So even with the

> progesterone you are still bleeding? What other procedures have you

> had done and how long has this been going on?

>    The anemia you have plays a role in your fatigue, and blah

> feelings, also maybe the migraines.

>     Susan Weed has an herbal menopause book that is probably

> applicable, I don't think you can expect an allopathic doctor to do

> much by way of "natural"If this guy is an OB-GYN even more so they

> are surgeons he may be treating you with meds but his real preference

> rather than fine tune is to do surgery that's his primary job

> probably what he likes most about it , very hands on -tactile and

> visual. If you are looking for some alternative approaches you need

> to find another kind of practioner like a naturopath, chiropractor in

> some states, midwife, clinical herbalist or research and do it

> yourself.

>    My standard stop bleeding for any cause plant is yarrow and it is

> not going to fix your hormones but it may help to reduce the bleeding

> you are having.For the anemia, nettles, greens-atleast 1 cup/day

> (also supplies vitamin k), miso soup, molasses, liver, b vitamins.

> Stay hydrated it makes the difference between loosing rich blood or

> diluted blood.

> diet, general health, family history,current meds or supplements you

> are taking. and lifestyle all need to be looked at.

>     Go to the library and look at the herbal/natural menopause books

> they will have some info that could help.

> Sharon in Tucson



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 21:20:12 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Ox Eye Daisy

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:20:12 -0500



>I work along the same lines as Jim - I give lymphatics, kidney and liver 

>herbs

>where needed. Lymphatics is cleavers, Bidens, oxeye daisy ...



Ox Eye Daisy as a lymphatic herb?  Do elaborate on its actions...



I use it primarily as an astringent & diuretic, almost always in formulas, 

usually along with Goldenrod & Ragweed for hay fever/allergies, or with 

Goldenrod, Queen Anne's Lace, Burdock seed, Plantain & other stuff for 

recurring UTIs or people with scanty hot, smelly urine (...ew, that sounds 

icky, doesn't it?).  I'd love to learn more about how to use it in other 

ways.



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 21:54:36 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Ox Eye Daisy

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:54:36 +0200



jim mcdonald wrote:

> >I work along the same lines as Jim - I give lymphatics, kidney and liver 

> > herbs where needed. Lymphatics is cleavers, Bidens, oxeye daisy ...

>

> Ox Eye Daisy as a lymphatic herb?  Do elaborate on its actions...

> 

> I use it primarily as an astringent & diuretic, almost always in formulas, 

> usually along with Goldenrod & Ragweed for hay fever/allergies, or with 

> Goldenrod, Queen Anne's Lace, Burdock seed, Plantain & other stuff for 

> recurring UTIs or people with scanty hot, smelly urine (...ew, that sounds 

> icky, doesn't it?).  I'd love to learn more about how to use it in other 

> ways.



It's halfway between Bidens and Capsella in action. Or was it Bidens is 

halfway between Capsella and oxeye daisy? I forget, but I usually throw it in 

when lymphatics are called for. I also use it in urinary troubles.



But hmmm, for hayfever / allergies? Hmmm. I'll try that, too, then, only I'm 

all out, so that use for oxeye daisy will have to wait until July.



But tell me about your use of burdock seed. And you say to use burdock 

continuously - do you use root or leaf? I've long since abandoned burdock 

root, it's just too much work to dig it up for the meager results. That goes 

for wild burdock which likes stony soil, which means the root breaks about 

15-20 cm down, and you get perhaps 5 such roots in an hour.

I've abandoned burdock seed, too, because it contains too many wrigglies. The 

kind that turns up _after_ you've dried'em, checked them to make sure they're 

completely devoid of extra protein, and put them into their storage jar. Two 

weeks later it's, ewww, how did all these dead flies end up in my burdock 

seed jar?

Gak. This could of course be avoided by throwing the seed into the freezer for 

a day or two before drying the lot, but that'd only mean that the extra 

protein would be better hidden. And that'd still be gak-worthy.



Henriette (I've a new guestbook on my site, go have a look! It's cool, I made 

it myself, with php and mysql! And I put all the old guestbook entries in 

there, from my earlier guestbooks.)



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From hdup@xsinet.co.za Tue Mar 18 21:55:52 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Osteo Arthritis

From: "dupi" <hdup@xsinet.co.za>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:55:52 +0200



Hi there



Have you any advise on helping with a case of severe osteo arthritis?



Dupi in South Africa



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 18 22:09:11 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Osteo Arthritis

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:09:11 +0200



dupi wrote:



> Have you any advise on helping with a case of severe osteo arthritis?



Start with the diet - I just posted the general outline of a set of 

elimination diets in the detox thread.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From elementalclay@webtv.net Tue Mar 18 22:03:33 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: [herb] Burdock

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:03:33 -0600 (CST)



  I haven't had insect trouble with the seeds in burrs I have left in

paper bags but I would like some advise for extracting the seeds from

the burr.

  The roots I dig from my yard and since I never let them go to seed, I

can continually snap off the top eight inches by putting the spade

straight down next to the root and pulling the spade sharply towards me.

  The same goes for dandelion root.  I find the roots that need to

regrow after removing the top few inches come back very thick and

healthy.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 22:21:46 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Burdock

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:21:46 -0500



>but I would like some advise for extracting the seeds from

>the burr.



My advice:  let someone else do it.  Even though I'm a manic wildcrafter, 

I've given up having issues about buying Burdock seed... my last attempt to 

seperate the seeds from the burrs reminded me of trying to fish my ferret 

out of a roll of fiberglass insulation (I didn't know -until a few minutes 

later- that that's what the soft stuff in the back of the closet was).



It really is just too much of a pain.  Pacific Botanicals sells it, and they 

can tell you when it was gathered.  My advice is to avoid Chinese seed... I 

bought some and it was so old and lifeless I threw it out and none of it 

even sprouted.



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Tue Mar 18 22:24:12 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Burdock

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:24:12 EST



In a message dated 3/18/03 2:22:19 PM, multiflorum@hotmail.com writes:



<< It really is just too much of a pain.  Pacific Botanicals sells it, and 

they 

can tell you when it was gathered.  My advice is to avoid Chinese seed... I 

bought some and it was so old and lifeless I threw it out and none of it 

even sprouted. >>



I agree.... I like the HerbPharm (nci) tincture that combines both root and 

seed; works fantastic for perimenopausal acne and eczema.  I've tried just 

the root tincture, but didn't have the same effect as both seed and root.



From elementalclay@webtv.net Wed Mar 19 00:24:47 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: Re: [herb] Burdock

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 16:24:47 -0600 (CST)



Jim,

  Ferrets... you got me thinking claws and tearing things apart.  I'm

too stubborn to buy what nature gives me for free so this is what I came

up with this afternoon for extracting burdock seeds.  I'm hoping it will

work as well with milk thistle.

  I started with burrs that have been sealed in a paper bag since

November and are very dry.

  Then I took a four foot length of inch and a half PVC pipe that has

the bottom cut at a slant for a cutting action into the burrs.

  The burrs went into a narrow bottom bucket and with a repeated tamping

motion of the PVC pipe, it breaks up the burrs.  Remove the top layer

and there is several handfuls of chaff and seeds on the bottom.

  To clean the seeds, I took a cookie sheet and holding it at an angle I

use a piece of cardboard to lift and turn the chaff.  The seeds roll to

the bottom of the cookie sheet and are caught on the edge.

  Considering I just assembled all the materials and began less than a

half hour ago, I am pleased to have almost 3/4 cup of fairly clean seeds

in a jar.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Tue Mar 18 22:15:47 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] mulberry

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:15:47 EST



I just found out that the farm we purchased has some mulberry on it.  Any 

suggestions for its use? I've read that the bark and fruit can be used as a 

food; the fruit especially as a tonic.  Ideas?



From mterry@snet.net Wed Mar 19 04:58:47 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] mulberry

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:58:47 -0800 (PST)



--- Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:

> I just found out that the farm we purchased has some

> mulberry on it.  Any 

> suggestions for its use? I've read that the bark and

> fruit can be used as a 

> food; the fruit especially as a tonic.  Ideas?



Here's one *not* to try: don't stand outside picking

and eating them before a meeting with any particularly

distinguished co-workers.  At least not the red ones. 

If they're white, enjoy!



May



=====

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From miriam_k@netvision.net.il Wed Mar 19 06:46:57 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] mulberry

From: Miriam Kresh <miriam_k@netvision.net.il>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:46:57 +0200



Mulberry wine is the most delicious of home-made drinks. You can also dry

the berries for later use in teas.



Yes, and if you pick more than one or two, you do wind up looking like the

guilty party in a horrible murder case ;).



Miriam



From ngbard@juno.com Sun Mar 23 17:08:48 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] mulberry

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:08:48 -0500



You can also dry the berries for later use in teas.

Does it have some medicinal capability maybe like raspberries (

superficial resemblance  and similar taste)?

Marcia



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 22:48:37 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox/Alteratives

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:48:37 -0500



Open question to the list (particulary you lurkers who listen but don't say 

as much):



How many of you really feel like you know what an "alterative" is and does, 

and would know how to differentiate between them if you wanted to put 

together a personalized formula for yourself or someone else?



I just feel like most "new to the field" enthusiasts have no idea what 

alterative herbs really do, outside of being "blood purifiers" or "spring 

tonics".  Elaborating on this might be useful...



From darcyblue@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 22:51:56 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox/Alteratives

From: "Darcey Blue" <darcyblue@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:51:56 -0700



Well not much yet! which i s why i lurk and listen from more knowledgable 

folk out there...:)

jsut wnat to let you all know, that i sent my application and letter into 

michael moore to enroll in his class next spring! yipee! i haven't yet heard 

back, but i'm looking foward to it most eagerly...then i'll really have some 

things to say !



darcey



----Original Message Follows----

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Reply-To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox/Alteratives

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:48:37 -0500



Open question to the list (particulary you lurkers who listen but don't say 

as much):



How many of you really feel like you know what an "alterative" is and does, 

and would know how to differentiate between them if you wanted to put 

together a personalized formula for yourself or someone else?



I just feel like most "new to the field" enthusiasts have no idea what 

alterative herbs really do, outside of being "blood purifiers" or "spring 

tonics".  Elaborating on this might be useful...



From rnmsw@bellsouth.net Wed Mar 19 00:04:41 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: Re: [herb] Herbal detox/Alteratives

From: <rnmsw@bellsouth.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:04:41 -0500



> 

>I don't have a clue.

Denise 

> 

> Open question to the list (particulary you lurkers who listen but don't say 

> as much):

> 

> How many of you really feel like you know what an "alterative" is and does, 

> and would know how to differentiate between them if you wanted to put 

> together a personalized formula for yourself or someone else?

> 

>

> 



From mterry@snet.net Wed Mar 19 03:42:26 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox/Alteratives

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:42:26 -0800 (PST)



--- jim mcdonald <multiflorum@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 

> How many of you really feel like you know what an

> "alterative" is and does, 

> and would know how to differentiate between them if

> you wanted to put 

> together a personalized formula for yourself or

> someone else?

> 

> I just feel like most "new to the field" enthusiasts

> have no idea what 

> alterative herbs really do, outside of being "blood

> purifiers" or "spring 

> tonics".  Elaborating on this might be useful...

> 

A couple of years ago I asked on this list for

definitions for alterative, tonic, adaptogen, surface

immune stimulant, deep immune stimulant, etc...it

might be a good idea to define these again and say

what they are good for.



May



=====

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From kchisholm@ca.inter.net Wed Mar 19 03:46:58 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal detox/Alteratives

From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm@ca.inter.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:46:58 -0400



Dear Jim



I, also, would appreciate any insights into alteratives, etc. 

I'm ignernt on so many things.



Kevin



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 23:19:49 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] burdock

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 16:19:49 -0500



>But tell me about your use of burdock seed. And you say to use burdock

>continuously - do you use root or leaf? I've long since abandoned burdock

>root, it's just too much work to dig it up for the meager results.



I've always considered Burdock the Alterative par excellence.  The seeds 

fall pretty much into the same usage as the roots, but are better for 

treating the acute phase or flare up of a chronic condition, like, say, 

eczema: use the root long term, and add the seeds when it flares up.  I've 

also used them for itchy rashes that you can just barely see as a redness on 

the skin & that feels like the "fiberglass itch" the burrs gave me, together 

with Wild Cherry bark (together in treatment, not in a bottle).  Good 

results, when nothing else would work.



Their slightly diffusive (tingly) flavor reminds me a bit of Echinacea, and 

I'll often combine the two and add it to mucilaginous tea (cornsilk, 

plantain)for UTIs (been thinking about adding Black Eyed Susan to this mix 

as well... I think Joyce mentioned to me she used Black Eyed Susan for 

UTIs...).  Matt Wood told me they're more active on the kidneys (I think it 

was him...); I've not used the leaf, though I'll probably begin to do so 

after hearing your thoughts on them, though not as a replacement for the 

root... I'm still a youngin'... I can spend a day diggin...



The seeds, and the roots as well, also normalize sebascious activity, both 

internally & externally, which helps lubricate dry skin or clear up 

especially oily skin, and improves hormone transport through the body when 

tissues are dry & atrophied (again, this I learned from matt wood, who 

learned it, I think, from Phyllis Light).



Burdock Root is really strong & grounding in a formula... solid.  The seeds 

give a formula some kick.



From joanr@shaw.ca Wed Mar 19 03:22:03 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Ostearthritis/Avascular necrosis

From: Joan <joanr@shaw.ca>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:22:03 -0800



When I broke my hip (75% of the neck of the femur) in early December, 

two doctors told me I would get secondary osteoarthritis.  I told them 

I was going to prove them wrong.  Now I have to figure out how to do 

that <lol>  My diet is excellent , I don't have low bone 

density.....(just a  accident in my home.....on cement......nothing 

else broke my fall except my hip). The only good thing about it all was 

it happened in the gardening off season and now I can garden  

again.....in fact the one cane I use now comes in handy for raking, 

etc. although I will be glad when I can get rid of that too!



Also there is a risk of avascular necrosis for my type of injury and I 

can't find any information that would help me prevent this.  Of course 

the doctors say you can't do anything....either you get it or you 

don't.  I really don't want to have a hip replacement which is what 

they would have to do if the bone dies.  I can't find much info on 

this, at least how to help prevent it.  There must be something I can 

do.....never was one to sit and wait.



  Any ideas??



Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



From texasbluebonnets@comcast.net Wed Mar 19 04:34:45 2003

To: Hennriettas Herblist <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Cindy Lee <texasbluebonnets@comcast.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:34:45 -0600



this is a resend:



Hi everyone,



 I am looking for some herb that can help with general calming down. I sort of get panic attacks, and just feelings of anxiety, which ( yes I have talked with a doctor but do not want to take antidepressants cause I don't think I am depressed.  more along the lines of OCD ) anyway, I also have high blood pressure which I DO take medicine for, but my blood pressures been running high lately so they are monitoring that.  



I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on an herb that I cant ake that will help just calm me a little, nothing heavily sedating. I have tried the wellness teas that have valarian in it, but took one of the capsules once and felt  tingly before I passed out.   a woman I work with is trying something called holy Basil but I have never heard anything about that,  but she says that makes her sleepy. but I also dont need anything that will interfere with my blood pressure meds.  so any information ya'llc an offer will be greatly greatly appreciated. 



 cindy



<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

<HTML><HEAD>

<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=GENERATOR>

<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>this is a resend:</FONT><BR></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua">Hi everyone,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua">&nbsp;I am looking for some herb that can help 

with general calming down. I sort of get panic attacks, and just feelings of 

anxiety, which ( yes I have talked with a doctor but do not want to take 

antidepressants cause I don't think I am depressed.&nbsp; more along the lines 

of OCD ) anyway, I also have high blood pressure which I DO take medicine for, 

but my blood pressures been running high lately so they are monitoring 

that.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua">I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on an 

herb that I cant ake that will help just calm me a little, nothing heavily 

sedating. I have tried the wellness teas that have valarian in it, but took one 

of the capsules once and felt&nbsp; tingly before I passed out.&nbsp;&nbsp; a 

woman I work with is trying something called holy Basil but I have never heard 

anything about that,&nbsp; but she says that makes her sleepy. but I also dont 

need anything that will interfere with my blood pressure meds.&nbsp; so any 

information ya'llc an offer will be greatly greatly appreciated. </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua">&nbsp;cindy</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 14:49:03 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:49:03 -0500



> > I sort of get panic attacks, and just feelings of anxiety, which ( yes I

> > have talked with a doctor but do not want to take antidepressants cause 

>I

> > don't think I am



The most powerful anti anxiety medicine on the planet is Tobacco... but 

that's probably not what you need, so please don't start smoking, and if you 

do, keep trying to quit till you do.



I'd recommend, hands down without a doubt, chewing on Calamus Root.  Its an 

acquired taste, but works ~incredibly~, in my experience.  Only a small 

amount, say a few pieces of the cut & sifted root to a scant tablespoon, 

need be chewed, along with some good deep breaths.  Very few people know 

about this use, but whenever anyone does, they agree that it works much 

better to treat the panic/anxiety atack when it's happening than anything 

else they've tried.  It does, though, need to be used with other herbs, 

breathing exercises, and figuring out what the panic attacks are about in 

order to resolve them.



Incidentally, the reason Calamus root is used to help people quit smoking is 

because of its antianxiety effect



good luck.



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Mon Mar 24 09:23:03 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 02:23:03 -0500 (EST)



from "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>:



> The most powerful anti anxiety medicine on the planet is Tobacco... but 

> that's probably not what you need, so please don't start smoking, and if you 

> do, keep trying to quit till you do.



> I'd recommend, hands down without a doubt, chewing on Calamus Root.  Its an 

> acquired taste, but works ~incredibly~, in my experience.  Only a small 

> amount, say a few pieces of the cut & sifted root to a scant tablespoon, 

> need be chewed, along with some good deep breaths.  Very few people know 

> about this use, but whenever anyone does, they agree that it works much 

> better to treat the panic/anxiety atack when it's happening than anything 

> else they've tried.  It does, though, need to be used with other herbs, 

> breathing exercises, and figuring out what the panic attacks are about in 

> order to resolve them.



> Incidentally, the reason Calamus root is used to help people quit smoking is 

> because of its antianxiety effect



> good luck.



Is tobacco really an anti-anxiety medicine, or is that because of the addiction

and withdrawal symptoms?  Some smokers tell me cigarettes help them relax, but

I attribute that to helping relieve their withdrawal symptoms.  Could tobacco

help somebody not accustomed to tobacco to relax?  



Tobacco is clearly not an option for me with respiratory system so tender.  One

cigarette for me would be one cigarette too many.  More to the point, one puff

would be one puff too many.



I saw Calamus root in a book on culinary herbs and spices, and it interested me,

having seen this herb in medicinal herb references.  Calamus (Acorus calamus,

family Araceae) is also known as Sweet Flag.  I am always looking for things to

improve my appetite, since one major factor contributing to asthma problems at

night is feeling full prematurely and thereby not eating enough.  It's not just

the stomach but rather, all the way between throat and stomach, where I can feel

tight and possibly nauseated.



From sarar@insani-x.com Thu Mar 20 00:15:30 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Sara Reller <sarar@insani-x.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:15:30 -0600



I used to have minor panic attacks. I refused to take anything. I knew that

a major part of it was just stress in my life (proven to me by the fact that

I havent had once since I got a job and a place to live and am now done

with college). The thing that worked best for me was mint tea. But since

when you are in the middle of a mall a nice cup of mint tea isnt always at

the top of the Starbucks menu I carried a small vial with my favorite

calming smells (I think its personal as well as general mine was Jasmine,

Lavender, and Dragons Blood) If I was going into a situation where I knew

Id get an attack, Id wear it as perfume. But Id get to the nearest

bathroom (if I could) and just sit there and smell it until I felt better

then remove myself from the situation.

But thats just me.

Sara



on 3/18/2003 8:34 PM, Cindy Lee at texasbluebonnets@comcast.net wrote:



>  

> this is a resend:

> Hi everyone,

>  

>  I am looking for some herb that can help with general calming down. I sort of

> get panic attacks, and just feelings of anxiety, which ( yes I have talked

> with a doctor but do not want to take antidepressants cause I don't think I am

> depressed.  more along the lines of OCD ) anyway, I also have high blood

> pressure which I DO take medicine for, but my blood pressures been running

> high lately so they are monitoring that.

>  

> I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on an herb that I cant ake that will

> help just calm me a little, nothing heavily sedating. I have tried the

> wellness teas that have valarian in it, but took one of the capsules once and

> felt  tingly before I passed out.   a woman I work with is trying something

> called holy Basil but I have never heard anything about that,  but she says

> that makes her sleepy. but I also dont need anything that will interfere with

> my blood pressure meds.  so any information ya'llc an offer will be greatly

> greatly appreciated.

>  

 cindy



From gardenthymeherbs@yahoo.com Thu Mar 20 15:16:37 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: The Gardenthyme Lady <gardenthymeherbs@yahoo.com>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:16:37 -0800 (PST)



I recently read a hint that would work for "calming

smells" You use an empty lip balm tube, and put a

piece of cotton with the E.O. herbs on it into the

tube, and as needed, use it as an inhaler.  This would

work for colds too.

Dee

I carried a small vial

> with my favorite

> calming smells 



=====

Dee

"The Gardenthyme Lady"



From mterry@snet.net Fri Mar 21 02:35:43 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:35:43 -0800 (PST)



--- Sara Reller <sarar@insani-x.com> wrote:

> I used to have minor panic attacks. I refused to

> take anything. I knew that

> a major part of it was just stress in my life

> (proven to me by the fact that

> I havent had once since I got a job and a place to

> live and am now done

> with college). The thing that worked best for me was

> mint tea.



Well, I had *major* anxiety/panic attacks, and,

believe me, tea doesn't cut it.  My pulse would be 150

during an extended attack, I would have nausea and

diarrhea, and feel like I could not get enough air

(which, of course, made the panic worsen).  I put up

with large amounts of emotional pain (a terrible

marriage) to avoid anxiety (being 'abandoned').  I

still consider Xanax to have been a godsend.  If kava

kava works anywhere near as good, I would say that

it's a worthwhile treatment even if long-term use

can't be proven not to have serious side effects.



May



=====

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From sarar@insani-x.com Fri Mar 21 06:56:09 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Sara Reller <sarar@insani-x.com>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:56:09 -0600



I'm sorry that you think I stepped on your toes. I thought the the original

post seemed to refer to more minor attacks. Hence I responded in kind. A

sever panic attack would call for a stronger approach. Generally that's the

way the world works. There's no need to jump down my throat.

And if you think that anxiety isn't an emotional pain you need a little

reexamination of what is pain.

So just because your PAIN was WORSE doesn't mean my answer wasn't valid for

my problem. Your answer was valid for your problem. People need to have as

much information as they can to make an educated decision. No meds that was

what I read so I went with things that wouldn't interfere with existing meds

and other trouble. Xanax would, there is more than one solution to every

problem. Not just yours and not just mine.



Sara



on 3/20/2003 6:35 PM, May Terry at mterry@snet.net wrote:



> --- Sara Reller <sarar@insani-x.com> wrote:

>> I used to have minor panic attacks. I refused to

>> take anything. I knew that

>> a major part of it was just stress in my life

>> (proven to me by the fact that

>> I haven?t had once since I got a job and a place to

>> live and am now done

>> with college). The thing that worked best for me was

>> mint tea.

> 

> Well, I had *major* anxiety/panic attacks, and,

> believe me, tea doesn't cut it.  My pulse would be 150

> during an extended attack, I would have nausea and

> diarrhea, and feel like I could not get enough air

> (which, of course, made the panic worsen).  I put up

> with large amounts of emotional pain (a terrible

> marriage) to avoid anxiety (being 'abandoned').  I

> still consider Xanax to have been a godsend.  If kava

> kava works anywhere near as good, I would say that

> it's a worthwhile treatment even if long-term use

> can't be proven not to have serious side effects.

> 

> May

> 



From mterry@snet.net Fri Mar 21 23:05:45 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:05:45 -0800 (PST)



--- Sara Reller <sarar@insani-x.com> wrote:

> I'm sorry that you think I stepped on your toes. 



I never said that.



> thought the the original

> post seemed to refer to more minor attacks. Hence I

> responded in kind. A

> sever panic attack would call for a stronger

> approach. Generally that's the

> way the world works. There's no need to jump down my

> throat.



Didn't think I was.  Thought I was being emphatic, not

critical.



> And if you think that anxiety isn't an emotional

> pain you need a little

> reexamination of what is pain.

> So just because your PAIN was WORSE doesn't mean my

> answer wasn't valid for

> my problem. Your answer was valid for your problem.

> People need to have as

> much information as they can to make an educated

> decision. No meds that was

> what I read so I went with things that wouldn't

> interfere with existing meds

> and other trouble. Xanax would, there is more than

> one solution to every

> problem. Not just yours and not just mine.



There's no need to jump down my throat.  As I said, I

was being emphatic.  You misinterpreted my tone as

being critical of you.  I was just trying to make my

point; I felt no animosity whatever towards you when I

was writing.  I have occasionally been somewhat

defensive when people have implied that my anxiety

(and/or depression) SHOULD be able to be controlled

with natural means, but I was not feeling that way

here, just wanting to make sure that people understood

that sometimes it is too severe to, at least

initially, be controlled in that way.



May



=====

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From MLCherbs@aol.com Thu Mar 20 21:38:15 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: MLCherbs@aol.com

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:38:15 EST



i have occasional panic attacks - "shakey" uneasy feeling.  I find immediate 

relief with Bach Flower   "Rescue Remedy".  I put a few drops under my tongue 

and the a few drops in a "bottled water" for when i am out - there is no 

adverse effect...just cuts the nervousness.



From williamj@nac.net Sun Mar 23 21:05:09 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj@nac.net>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:05:09 -0500



I started taking Bach's "Rescue Remedy" several years ago when it was given

to me by my Vet when I was in terrible grief after putting my dog down.  It

was the only thing that helped.  Since then I have passed the bottle of

drops around to friends deserted by lovers and others with lots of grief and

now my Coop stocks it and can't keep it in stock.  This is really good

stuff.



Bill

----- Original Message -----

From: <MLCherbs@aol.com>

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:38 PM

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic



> i have occasional panic attacks - "shakey" uneasy feeling.  I find

immediate

> relief with Bach Flower   "Rescue Remedy".  I put a few drops under my

tongue

> and the a few drops in a "bottled water" for when i am out - there is no

> adverse effect...just cuts the nervousness.



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Fri Mar 21 02:41:38 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:41:38 EST



In a message dated 3/20/2003 7:36:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

mterry@snet.net writes:



> I put up

> with large amounts of emotional pain (a terrible

> marriage) to avoid anxiety (being 'abandoned').  I

> still consider Xanax to have been a godsend.  If kava

> kava works anywhere near as good, I would say that

> it's a worthwhile treatment even if long-term use

> can't be proven not to have serious side effects.

> 

> May

> 

> 



Hi May ~



Yes Kava can work as well...plus there are many flower essences made from 

herbs that can help a lot...one of them chamomile.  When stress is caused by 

environmental situations we use chaparral natural essence.



Warmly ~

Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From ngbard@juno.com Fri Mar 21 07:10:51 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:10:51 -0500



How do use these flower essences? ( very dilute sublingual drops?

tincture to add to beverage? )



( a friend surprised me by interrupting directions to the cab driver

after theater late at night --- me good girl not deck almost

ex-friend---and later apologized using panic attack as the excuse for bad

behavior)   If your stuff is easy to manage, let me know privately.

Marcia



From ngbard@juno.com Fri Mar 21 07:18:43 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:18:43 -0500



It is interesting that the Hospice nurse in charge of my mother's "death

with dignity" allowed the Rescue Remedy drops as part of her program .

Peaceful was the operative word.

Marcia



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 17:51:37 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:51:37 -0500



>Is tobacco really an anti-anxiety medicine, or is that because of the 

>addiction

>and withdrawal symptoms?  Some smokers tell me cigarettes help them relax, 

>but

>I attribute that to helping relieve their withdrawal symptoms.



Okay, let me preface this as ~pure heresy~, which I'm sure will rile some 

people up.



I don't accept "Tobacco addiction" as a physiological process to be 

legitimate.  While people can go on and on about the biochemistry of 

nicotine addiction, if it was as simple as that, people could chew nicotine 

gum or use patches and that would be that.  I've known so many people who 

stopped smoking and had no withdrawl symptoms, and that also undercuts the 

idea of a chemical basis.



Beyond that, the physiological withdrawl syptoms associated with stopping 

smoking are identical to those that accompany other means of dsitracting 

one's self from anxiety.  As an example, go out into suburbia during a power 

outage and watch how your average american family copes with no access to 

TV.  Deprived of their ability to "tune out", all of the anxieties they try 

to ignore by using television as "zombification therapy" remanifest, with 

all the same sort of physiological "symptoms": nervousness, anxiety, rise in 

blood pressure, rapid shallow breathing, obsession over when the TV will 

work again...



Simply, if you remove the method that a person uses to cope with their 

anxiety (whatever it is), that anxiety will remanifest.  People smoke 

because it relieves nervous anxiety, and from there it can become a nervous 

habit, gets integrated into their lifestyle, and often their self 

identification, and becomes a very hard ~habit~ to break.



If you want to help someone quit smoking, there are a few things that need 

to happen.  First and foremost, the person has to want to not smoke.  This 

is very different than knowing they need to stop, or even wanting to quit.  

Very many people ~enjoy~ smoking, even though they "know they shouldn't".  

If this is the case, the person's chances are slim at best, because they 

really don't ~want~ to quit... they just think they should.  If the person, 

on the other hand, finds themselves feeling that, "you know what, I'm sick 

of coughing, getting bronchitis, running out of breath, people scoul when 

they smell my breath, my whole body reeks like an ashtray... this just makes 

me fell shitty & I'm sick of it, I just don't want to do this anymore," then 

they have pretty good chances of quitting, beacsue they've got a good 

foundation to start from.



I often tell people that if they choose to smoke, do it purposefully, 

because they want to, not because they're anxious or nervous, or out of 

habit.  In the Native american tradition, the proper use of tobacco is for 

prayer; the prayers of the people smoking are carried to the great spirit in 

the smoke.  You smoke to consider an issue or situtation, to pray on it, to 

ask for guidance or perspective.  This is how I smoke, and smoking outside 

of such a context isn't even a thought to me.  I've seen people go from 

being "smokers" to people who "use Tobacco", and in most instances, their 

smoking related health problems clear up, even though they still 

occasionally smoke.  They often report that smoking ceremonially is nothing 

like having a cigarette.  It isn't, anymore than consuming alcohol in a 

tincture is like "drinking".



The ~purpose~ is different, the ~intent~ is different, and intention affects 

the way things affect you.  If you guzzle down a mug of coffee to get you 

through the day, it will affect you differently than if you sip on the 

coffee, and savor its flavor and aroma... if you chow down on a healthy 

dinner, swallowing gulp after gulp, it may cause more digestive distress 

than if you eat a "meat and potatoes" dinner, but eat slowly and chew 

everything really well.  The way we do things affects how doing them affect 

us.  This concept applies to smoking as well.



And don't get me wrong, I think smoking as a habit is ~absolutely vile~, 

self destructive and disrespectful to Tobacco.  It's interesting, in fact, 

that we refer to "abusing Tobacco"... that's really what we're doing: 

abusing it.  Tobacco is a gift from the Creator to help us.  Like all 

sacraments, western culture has ripped it out of its context and made a vice 

out of it.  Probably every botanical vice used by modern society was a 

sacrament in its indigenous context.



If we abuse it, the only way that Tobacco can let us know is by making us 

feel bad.  That's how it tries to tell us, "lay off".  It figures we should 

understand this, and in reality WE DO.  We just don't listen.  We ignore the 

coughing, we ignore the bad smell & the foul taste.  WE ignore knowing that 

we feel worse after smoking... Kind of like when we're in a relationship 

that we know isn't working, but we stay in it.  We know its not good, our 

friends tell us its not good, but we can't give it up because "what would we 

do without it?"  So we continue with it, and use the relationship itself to 

try not to think about it.  We don't step back to get perspective, we step 

in to narrow our veiw of it, to not see the ways it isn't serving us.  The 

same dynamic is at play with Tobacco abuse, or, really, any other form of 

self abuse we engage in.  Really, who believes the people who sue tobacco 

companies and say "they didn't know Tobacco was bad for them?"  That's clear 

cut denial.



When we believe that Tobacco addiction is a physiological ineveitability, 

because nicotine is "so addictive", we disempower ourselves.  We create a 

belief system that makes it harder to quit by re-enforcing and building up 

the difficulty of doing so.  After all, if its all chemical, its beyond our 

power, we have no control.  Its like gravity, or inertia.  But if we accept 

our responsibilty for our habit, we give ourselve the power to break it.



Lord, this is probably far too big a topic to get into here... I'll leave it 

at that.  If anyone is left feeling litagacious, please read the beginning 

over, where I acknowledged the heretical nature of not believing in nicotie 

addiction.



>Could tobacco help somebody not accustomed to tobacco to relax?



Yes, but I wouldn't use it to do so...  My beleif is that the proper use of 

Tobacco is in Ceremony, in prayer, and use outside of this context is 

dangerous... playing with fire, so to speak.



From asackett@artsackett.com Mon Mar 24 19:48:22 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:48:22 -0700



On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 10:51:37AM -0500, jim mcdonald wrote:



> I don't accept "Tobacco addiction" as a physiological process to be 

> legitimate.  While people can go on and on about the biochemistry of 

> nicotine addiction, if it was as simple as that, people could chew nicotine 

> gum or use patches and that would be that.



Are you suggesting that the only compound within tobacco to which the

human body reacts is nicotine? Wouldn't that run counter to the generally 

accepted (here) premise that when considering things herbal there is most 

often a synergy, rather than a single "active ingredient"?



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 20:17:30 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:17:30 -0500



> > I don't accept "Tobacco addiction" as a physiological process to be

> > legitimate.  While people can go on and on about the biochemistry of

> > nicotine addiction, if it was as simple as that, people could chew 

>nicotine

> > gum or use patches and that would be that.

>

>Are you suggesting that the only compound within tobacco to which the

>human body reacts is nicotine? Wouldn't that run counter to the generally

>accepted (here) premise that when considering things herbal there is most

>often a synergy, rather than a single "active ingredient"?



No, I'm saying that Tobacco is ~not~ physiologically addictive.  Its a 

powerful antianxiety herb and people abuse it because they're anxious, and 

don't want to quit because then they'd have to deal with their anxiety.



From hetta@spamcop.net Mon Mar 24 20:24:49 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:24:49 +0200



jim mcdonald wrote:



> No, I'm saying that Tobacco is ~not~ physiologically addictive.  Its a 

> powerful antianxiety herb and people abuse it because they're anxious, and 

> don't want to quit because then they'd have to deal with their anxiety.



Except, then you have the tobacco companies, adding in addictive substances... 

one of them has 'fessed up, the rest are probably doing it as well. 



For "clean" tobacco, do American Spirit or Nat Sherman.



Henriette (... neither of which are available here. Our shops say "EU 

regulations", but funny, it's available in London, Frankfurt and Berlin, and 

those were in EU countries last I looked.)



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From asackett@artsackett.com Mon Mar 24 20:43:57 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:43:57 -0700



On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 01:17:30PM -0500, jim mcdonald wrote:

> 

> > > I don't accept "Tobacco addiction" as a physiological process to be

> > > legitimate.  While people can go on and on about the biochemistry of

> > > nicotine addiction, if it was as simple as that, people could chew 

> >nicotine

> > > gum or use patches and that would be that.

> >

> >Are you suggesting that the only compound within tobacco to which the

> >human body reacts is nicotine? Wouldn't that run counter to the generally

> >accepted (here) premise that when considering things herbal there is most

> >often a synergy, rather than a single "active ingredient"?

> 

> No, I'm saying that Tobacco is ~not~ physiologically addictive.  



So then how do I reconcile your statement "... if it was as simple as 

that, people could chew nicotine gum or use patches and that would be 

that"??? I thought your whole argument was based upon it, falls flat 

without it.



Don't get me wrong, I'm good with anecdotal evidence, with the 

rejection of "modern medical science", and with the acceptance of 

actions that are beyond current scientific explanation. But I want to 

understand HOW it can be that the bulk of human society is suffering 

from some common delusion that predates suburban angst.



> Its a 

> powerful antianxiety herb and people abuse it because they're anxious, and 

> don't want to quit because then they'd have to deal with their anxiety.



My personal experience, as I perceived it, was quite different. I'm not 

and have never been an anxious person, but was addicted to cigarettes 

for about a quarter century. I'm far from being otherwise perfect, but 

anxious is something I've very rarely ever been, and never chronically 

so.



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----



From sarar@insani-x.com Mon Mar 24 23:01:39 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Sara Reller <sarar@insani-x.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:01:39 -0600



I think that one thing that you over looked is the boredom and peer pressure

factors. I know plenty of people who smoke cause they can't think of

anything better to do. But the other thing that fits very well with the

anti-anxiety thing is the peer pressure. There are many jobs where 'smoke

breaks' are allowed but you can't just take 5 minutes and run outside to do

anything you want (yep they are still out there I worked one at a restaurant

and my sister works one at a nursing home) and so that's not so much peer

pressure but falls nicely into that category. I do feel that people who do

it want to do it. But these also are reason's that people want to do it.

Just want to make sure you take these into account in your theory (which I

by the way think is great).



Sara



on 3/24/2003 12:43 PM, Art Sackett at asackett@artsackett.com wrote:

here is most

>>> often a synergy, rather than a single "active ingredient"?

>> 

>> No, I'm saying that Tobacco is ~not~ physiologically addictive.  



From HerbalSW@aol.com Mon Mar 24 21:49:01 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:49:01 EST



I work in the addictions field and those who stop smoking cigarettes (not 

pure tobacco) have a harder time with withdrawal symptoms and relapse 

prevention than those attempting to stop cocaine or heroin



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 05:10:07 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:10:07 -0500



>So then how do I reconcile your statement "... if it was as simple as

>that, people could chew nicotine gum or use patches and that would be

>that"??? I thought your whole argument was based upon it, falls flat

>without it.



First, I don't have an argument, and have always taken exception to the 

western academic notion of presenting an argument, offering evidence to back 

it up, then concluding that because of the solidity with which you argued, 

others should believe you're right... I'd rather have lots of different, 

individualized, conflicting and contradictory veiwpoints, and have everyone 

be okay with that.  In fact, in college I once wrote a paper on that, and 

got ZERO points for my effort.  Evidentaly, challeging academic structure 

within an academic structure isn't libel to earn you points for creative 

thinking.  Oh well...



Anyways, offering something relevent, I'm having a hard time seeing where, 

in that sentence, it could be construed that I'm saying that the effects of 

nicotine are to be understood representing the effects of Tobacco.  Perhaps 

I'm not getting what you're saying, you're not getting what I'm saying, or 

both.  Not really knowing what's the case, I'd say ignore that sentence and 

read the rest of the post.



Its kind of a ramble and not meant to build from one point together in an 

academic matter (hence, it doesn't "fall flat", though, as I mentioned, its 

certainly heretical, isn't it?).  Its also not meant to be understood as the 

reason why ALL people smoke... I'd never say, or mean to imply, that there's 

any reason all people do anything.  The post was actually in response to 

someone asking, "does Tobacco relieve anxiety?"  The answer to that is 

absolutely yes, and that's why ~many~ people smoke.



More than anything, though, its a challenge to stretch one's perceptions 

beyond what are common assumptions about nicotine addiction, or, really, 

addiction in general.  What anyone concludes after stretching those 

assumptions is up to them and their experience.  Mine has shown that a lot 

of people use Tobacco to relieve anxiety.  As another person mentioned, peer 

pressure and boredom also influence a persons descision to smoke.



>Don't get me wrong, I'm good with anecdotal evidence, with the

>rejection of "modern medical science", and with the acceptance of

>actions that are beyond current scientific explanation. But I want to

>understand HOW it can be that the bulk of human society is suffering

>from some common delusion that predates suburban angst.



That, I really don't know, and also wonder all the time.  I've often 

considered that people find it easier to deal with short term solutions to 

problems (smoking, here and now, because I want a cigarette, dammit... I'll 

feel relieved when I have one) than it is to deal with long term solutions 

to problems (dammit, I'm coughing and wheezing all the time... I got to stop 

smoking... but I want a cigarette, dammit!).  This is at least what I've 

seen very clearly in lots of people who smoke.  Perhaps your assessment of 

suburban angst clarifies things a bit as well... Tobacco not only relieves 

anxiety, it will effectively lower angst down a few notches as well.  And 

frustration.



The problem with Tobacco is that its VERY POWERFUL, and very powerful herbs 

are not meant to be used often and indiscriminately.  The more you smoke, 

the less effectively it reduces anxiety/angst/frustration/tension, and the 

shorter the duration of this effect, till it really doesn't work at all.  

But the mind remembers what it DID, how it helped before (or how we enjoyed 

it), and subconsciously we repeat the action in an attempt to recreate the 

experience that initially connected us to the plant.  This is a pretty 

common behavior in humans, and the ways it can manifest are myriad.  Smoking 

is one of them.  Another, perhaps, is gambling, another "addiction" that 

follows pretty much the same pattern, but doesn't have an alkaloid 

(gambaline?) to blame.



> > Its a

> > powerful antianxiety herb and people abuse it because they're anxious, 

>and

> > don't want to quit because then they'd have to deal with their anxiety.

>

>My personal experience, as I perceived it, was quite different. I'm not

>and have never been an anxious person, but was addicted to cigarettes

>for about a quarter century. I'm far from being otherwise perfect, but

>anxious is something I've very rarely ever been, and never chronically

>so.



Again, as stated above, I've not meant to imply all inclusiveness, just 

offering some ideas to think about.  Most people, anyways, think I'm nuts 

about this one, including a number of people whose opinions I highly value.  

That's OK... I believe in Faeries, too, and have been known to turn my shirt 

inside out if I think I'm being pixie-led (that works, by the way...).  I 

really wouldn't even say I'm right.  But since developing this idea, I've 

learned a LOT about addiction, behavior, and dependence.  It works for me.



From asackett@artsackett.com Tue Mar 25 19:33:23 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 10:33:23 -0700



On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 10:10:07PM -0500, jim mcdonald wrote:



> First, I don't have an argument, and have always taken exception to the 

> western academic notion of presenting an argument, offering evidence to back 

> it up, then concluding that because of the solidity with which you argued, 

> others should believe you're right... I'd rather have lots of different, 

> individualized, conflicting and contradictory veiwpoints, and have everyone 

> be okay with that.



Oh, okay. I had assumed that one statement was supposed to have been 

logically related to those around it. I'm sorry.



> Anyways, offering something relevent, I'm having a hard time seeing where, 

> in that sentence, it could be construed that I'm saying that the effects of 

> nicotine are to be understood representing the effects of Tobacco.  



I'm sorry. Being incapable of understanding the meaning you intended in 

what you wrote, I cannot find the error in my perception of it. I'm 

thinking that the best thing I can do is to just accept that I've made 

fool enough of myself for now.



Thanks for trying to enlighten me, and have a good one!



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 21:55:13 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:55:13 -0500



> > Anyways, offering something relevent, I'm having a hard time seeing 

>where,

> > in that sentence, it could be construed that I'm saying that the effects 

>of

> > nicotine are to be understood representing the effects of Tobacco.

>

>I'm sorry. Being incapable of understanding the meaning you intended in

>what you wrote, I cannot find the error in my perception of it. I'm

>thinking that the best thing I can do is to just accept that I've made

>fool enough of myself for now.



Likely, you've merely pointed out that my endeavors to explore creative 

etiology and sentence structure are at times counter productive: they may be 

creative, but they may be confusing as well.  For the sake of clarity, I'll 

~try~ to be at leas a bit more linear.  And remember: the fool is the first 

card in the tarot.



From phosphor@hotkey.net.au Wed Mar 19 04:41:49 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: offlist..panic

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor@hotkey.net.au>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:41:49 +1000



folic acid. help makes the neurotransmitters dopamine and serotonin. these

balance nor-epinephrine, which cause anxiety feelings.

take at least 1mg daily.



andrew

aust.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Cindy Lee" <texasbluebonnets@comcast.net>

To: "Hennriettas Herblist" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:34

Subject: [herb] Something for Anxiety/Panic



this is a resend:



Hi everyone,



 I am looking for some herb that can help with general calming down. I sort

of get panic attacks, and just feelings of anxiety, which ( yes I have

talked with a doctor but do not want to take antidepressants cause I don't

think I am depressed.  more along the lines of OCD ) anyway, I also have

high blood pressure which I DO take medicine for, but my blood pressures

been running high lately so they are monitoring that.



I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on an herb that I cant ake that will

help just calm me a little, nothing heavily sedating. I have tried the

wellness teas that have valarian in it, but took one of the capsules once

and felt  tingly before I passed out.   a woman I work with is trying

something called holy Basil but I have never heard anything about that,  but

she says that makes her sleepy. but I also dont need anything that will

interfere with my blood pressure meds.  so any information ya'llc an offer

will be greatly greatly appreciated.



 cindy



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----



From mterry@snet.net Wed Mar 19 04:49:08 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: offlist..panic

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:49:08 -0800 (PST)



--- Phosphor <phosphor@hotkey.net.au> wrote:

> folic acid. help makes the neurotransmitters

> dopamine and serotonin. these

> balance nor-epinephrine, which cause anxiety

> feelings.

> take at least 1mg daily.

> 

Yeah, but...if you're not deficient in folate to begin

with, why would it help in this way?



May



=====

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From phosphor@hotkey.net.au Wed Mar 19 04:54:40 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: offtopic..panic

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor@hotkey.net.au>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:54:40 +1000



<Yeah, but...if you're not deficient in folate to begin

with, why would it help in this way?>



it won't. but you might be deficient, depending on your ancestry. somewhere

between 25-35% of caucasians of celtic origin exhibit variations in the

enzymes relating to the post-digestive transformation of folate. ie they

need more.



andrew



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Wed Mar 19 13:57:15 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Albizzia julibbrissin

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:57:15 -0500



It is an herb in the Chinese Materia Medica, and can be found where chinese herbs are sold-

also, it is a "noxious weed" in the south (interesting,eh?) Know anyone in the Carolinas? It grows there...

Supposedly the flowers are best for anxiety- but the bark is used as well...

It can be grown as a house plant- I intend on doing this...



Michelle



From gardenthymeherbs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 19 18:10:03 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: article on Kava research

From: The Gardenthyme Lady <gardenthymeherbs@yahoo.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:10:03 -0800 (PST)



http://herbsforhealth.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.betterlivingusa.com/Liver%2520Damage%2520and%2520Kava.htm



=====

Dee

"The Gardenthyme Lady"



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 18:51:28 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: article on Kava research

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:51:28 -0500



While I totally agree with the outcome of this study; that Kava kava is not 

inherently hepatotoxic, it does demonstrate a pertinent problem:



"A coalition of dietary supplements industry associations, including the 

American Herbal Products Association, National Nutritional Foods 

Association, American Botanical Council, Council for Responsible Nutrition 

and Utah Natural Products Alliance, commissioned Waller to evaluate26 

kava-related AERs received by the FDA between May 1998 and September 2001, 

as well as 30 Swiss and German AERs gathered in the last 11 years."



He was ~commisioned~ by the herbal products industry, who make money - lots 

of it - from Kava products.  Likely, pharmacuetical companies will feel 

compelled to ~commision~ their own stuy which says Kava is indeed dangerous, 

and the cycle will continue ad infinitum, as it has with St. John's Wort.  

We say this, they say that; we have our study, they have theirs.  Pointless, 

a waset of time, money & energy.



I've pretty much attempted to refrain from using the results of studies to 

back up what I say an herb, formula or therapy does, because I feel they are 

nearly inevitably prone to reflect the will of the people who pay for them.  

~Let the practice speak for itself~.  When the Kava thing came up, I didn't 

feel like I needed to wait for a study about whether it was dangerous or 

not, I knew it wasn't.  If we fall into relying on studies to prove things 

we give up the experiential nature of traditional herbalism and fall into 

psuedo-scientific-standardized-phyto-nonsense which, at its core, reduces 

the usefulness of using herbs because its trying to do it in a scientific 

framework that is alien to the ways herbs work best.



The most important thing an herbalist can do nowadays, i feel, is to teach.  

Teach the interested public how herbs work, and let the herbs speak for 

themselves.  Doing this will clearly show their supriority over chemical 

medicine.  Look what would happen if we let pharmacueticals speak for 

themselves....



end of tirade.



From gardenthymeherbs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 19 19:52:09 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: article on Kava research

From: The Gardenthyme Lady <gardenthymeherbs@yahoo.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:52:09 -0800 (PST)



Yes, of course you are right Jim.  The problem is so

many people now have a closed mind about these herbs,

and basically herbs in general.  The program I work

for helped sponsored a mini medical program for the

public, one of the programs is on alternative/holistic

medicine.  They normally have a panel of 3

professionals.  They could only come up with one, an

accupunturist.  When I suggested a herbalist

participate I was shot down because the Dr. in charge

wouldn't hear of it.  I tryed to explain the person I

had suggested wasn't a "quack".  She is the president

of the local herb society, owns a herbal business, and

has taught herbal classes at the college.  But because

she owns a herbal business he said she's in it for a

profit and that was that.  I had to bite my tougue not

to retort "And Physicians and drug companies aren't?"

I didn't want to get into an argument over it though.

I've encountered this hostility and resistence

repeatedly.  So our alternative/holistic mini medical

school will not address the use of herbs, and will

only have an accupuncturist on the panel.

Dee "the gardenthyme Lady"



=====

Dee

"The Gardenthyme Lady"



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Wed Mar 19 22:37:49 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: article on Kava research

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:37:49 -0500



What I find interesting is, according to the AHG journal articles on Kava,

most of the hepatotoxic occurrences were from using the acetone extract. Now

I know that solvents supposedly do not remain in the final product- but one

must wonder...



Michelle



From mwherbs@cox.net Wed Mar 19 18:18:44 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Herbal detox

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:18:44 -0700



I can see we are a bunch of nourishers, what happened to your "Jethro 

Kloss, Kellogg" spirit? I am with you here I think that there is 

rarely a place for the strong purge I think kindlier of blood 

letting, leeches, and maggots, all of which I can think of at least 

one use.

     But over the years I have found quite a few folks who insist on 

doing things in an intense way, maybe it is a ceremony for them I do 

not know. A dose or 2 in 1 day of castor oil will empty your 

intestines fairly efficiently (this is not to be done by pregnant 

women) and don't do this for more than a day or else you will end up 

too worn out to get well.

Then start building and your body will be effective in fending off 

what you have been fighting. Be gentle with yourself good health is a 

life's work.

I like verbena, Mormon tea, thistle, desert willow(chilopsis) for 

yeast. But it truly is all in the details, life style, diet, 

allergies,chronic illnesses, emotional well being.

Sharon in Tucson



From mwherbs@cox.net Wed Mar 19 18:33:26 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Herbal detox

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:33:26 -0700



>to clarify I ment verbena,mormon tea and thistle as builders and 

>desert willow as one yeast treatment.

>

>Sharon in Tucson



From hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu Wed Mar 19 19:45:06 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] RE: Kava

From: hkobayas <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:45:06 -0600



<When the Kava thing came up, I didn't feel like I needed to wait for a study 

about whether it was dangerous or not, I knew it wasn't.>



This does not mean it is not dangerous, does it? Just because you think?



<If we fall into relying on studies to prove things we give up the 

experiential nature of traditional herbalism and fall into 

psuedo-scientific-standardized-phyto-nonsense which, at its core, reduces the 

usefulness of using herbs because its trying to do it in a scientific 

framework that is alien to the ways herbs work best.>



That's one type of misunderstanding a scientific study or a result. In 

science, we do NOT "prove". We find an evidence that supports (or we fail to 

reject) the hypothesis we tested. That's not same as "proving". I think you 

stated earlier herbal medicine is like an art if I remember correctly. That 

may be even worse than pseudoscience, or voodoo science I prefer to call.



Hideka



From hetta@spamcop.net Wed Mar 19 20:31:02 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] RE: Kava

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:31:02 +0200



hkobayas wrote:



> That's one type of misunderstanding a scientific study or a result. In 

> science, we do NOT "prove". We find an evidence that supports (or we fail to 

> reject) the hypothesis we tested. That's not same as "proving". 



But there are far too many dishonest scientists out there. I'm sure they 

didn't start out all unethical, but then they noticed that you don't get 

grant money if you don't deliver the desired results... and once you give in 

to that it's a very slippery slope, at the bottom of which you'll find a big 

heap of people who are more than willing to write that "ginger doesn't work 

for nausea" --- where an _honest_ scientist would have written "ginger 

doesn't use this mechanism in its anti-nauseous effects".



Personally, I've read far too many papers blatantly anti-herbal papers. The 

neutral or pro-herbal ones are few and far between. Because, let's face it, 

where do medical and pharmaceutical studies get their grant money from? The 

pharmacogiants. And what's the biggest threat to those? It's 1) people 

starting to do things for their own health, like exercise, diet, lifestyle -- 

and 2) herbs, which cannot be patented, which can be planted pretty much 

anywhere.



Funny thing though.



I'm a non-conformer on two fronts: 1) I'm a herbalist, and 2) I use linux. 



The positions are pretty identical: a small challenger up against the big 

guys. 



When Micro$oft says that linux (which is free) is in fact expensive to work 

with the linux folks shrug, say "FUD", and get on with their lives.



"FUD" stands for "Fear Uncertainty Doubt". 



And _THAT_ is what pharmacogiants and medical sciences throw at herbs, as fast 

and as devastatingly as they ever can.



Herbs aren't any more dangerous now than they were 20 years ago. But these 

days _any_ little thing that's negative about herbs makes headlines 

_immediately_. FUD. ... Shrug. Did you guys know in just how many ways a 30 

minute walk a day is good?



> I think you 

> stated earlier herbal medicine is like an art if I remember correctly. That 

> may be even worse than pseudoscience, or voodoo science I prefer to call.



Of course you would say that - you're working in a scientific frame.



But who cares if it's science, voodoo, art, or pseudoscience? To me, it makes 

no difference _whatsoever_ what outsiders choose to call my craft, as long as 

my clients get better. And they do, so all of this is rather academic, no?



Ta ta

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From asackett@artsackett.com Wed Mar 19 20:46:23 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] RE: Kava

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:46:23 -0700



On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 08:31:02PM +0200, Henriette Kress wrote:



> I'm a non-conformer on two fronts: 1) I'm a herbalist, and 2) I use linux. 



And I, too, am nonconformant in those two ways. :-) (And would add that 

I'm a wholly organic gardener who assists others in their organic 

growing endeavors and supports the anti-GMO movement, as well. Not that 

I want to start any holy wars on that front within this list.)



Happiness and health are more easily maintained in the absence of faith 

in the almighty dollar. 



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 20:32:09 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] RE: Kava

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:32:09 -0500



><When the Kava thing came up, I didn't feel like I needed to wait for a 

>study

>about whether it was dangerous or not, I knew it wasn't.>

>

>This does not mean it is not dangerous, does it? Just because you think?



Not ~at all~ because I think.  Because its not.  My opinions about it are 

based on literally thousands of years of indigenous use, and my interactions 

with hawaiians and other herbalists who've been using the herb for decades.



>That's one type of misunderstanding a scientific study or a result. In

>science, we do NOT "prove". We find an evidence that supports (or we fail 

>to

>reject) the hypothesis we tested. That's not same as "proving". I think you

>stated earlier herbal medicine is like an art if I remember correctly. That

>may be even worse than pseudoscience, or voodoo science I prefer to call.



Respectfully, there's a difference in perspective.  While some may really 

like the concrete "this is why" approach that science strives for, I don't, 

and I address my opinions as such.  To each their own.



For my part, the "voodou science" of the past is what has supplied all the 

info modern science is trying to prove.  The scope of herbal medicine has 

never, ~in the history of the world~, been as narrow as it is under the 

scientific model.  This is alarming and distressing, particularly because 

goverments use this model to make laws that say what someone can and cannot 

do ("studies" claimed sassafras is carcinogenic, and so we can't drink 

sassafras root beer anymore.  "Experience" says sassafras prevents cancer, 

and areas where Sassafras tea is regularly consumed have among the lowest 

Cancer rates in the country).



So information based on experience is empowering.  What it does do, which 

offers the potentials for the dangers that you assert to it, is make people 

responsible for whose word they take.  Thta's a very real danger, not to be 

taken lightly.  My experience, though, is that much of the misinformation my 

students and clients have learned comes from "studies", whose accuracy was 

assumed because "science supported it".  Often these studies toof place in a 

petri dish.  I just can't let the people I work with accept that without 

considering other perspectives.



Takes all kind to make the world go round, eh?



From hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu Thu Mar 20 02:28:25 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] RE: Kava

From: hkobayas <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 18:28:25 -0600



<But there are far too many dishonest scientists out there.>



That may be true or not. Either way, it shouldn't be a reason that you don't 

trust scientific finding. There are many dubious herbal products (Essiac?) or 

herbalists out there as well.



<I'm sure they didn't start out all unethical, but then they noticed that you 

don't get grant money if you don't deliver the desired results... and once you 

give in to that it's a very slippery slope, at the bottom of which you'll find 

a big heap of people who are more than willing to write that "ginger doesn't 

work for nausea" --- where an _honest_ scientist would have written "ginger 

doesn't use this mechanism in its anti-nauseous effects".>



People like you know enough about herbs and the subtlety of research results. 

But the majority does not. I tend to see more problem with media since their 

capability in uderstanding (any) issues is quite limited.



<The neutral or pro-herbal ones are few and far between.>



Not so. There have been at least few articles that find efficacy in 

treatements for anxiety and perimenopausal symptoms for kava even after the 

recent kava scare. You won't see neutral or pro-herb ones in JAMA for the 

reasons you stated, that's for sure.



<Herbs aren't any more dangerous now than they were 20 years ago. But these

days _any_ little thing that's negative about herbs makes headlines 

_immediately_. FUD. ... Shrug. Did you guys know in just how many ways a 30

minute walk a day is good?>



Very true. But I do remember Confrey scare. The situation could have been a 

little different in Japan, though.



<But who cares if it's science, voodoo, art, or pseudoscience? To me, it makes

no difference _whatsoever_ what outsiders choose to call my craft, as long as

my clients get better. And they do, so all of this is rather academic, no?>



Affirmative. That's the reason I don't apply scientific reasonings/logics to 

homeopathy.



<My opinions about it are based on literally thousands of years of indigenous 

use, and my interactions with hawaiians and other herbalists who've been using 

the herb for decades.>



So called anecdotal evidence?



<While some may really like the concrete "this is why" approach that science 

strives for, I don't, and I address my opinions as such.  To each their own.>



It isn't concrete as you wish to believe. In science, we all deal with 

probability. Nothing is concrete in science. Paradigm?



<The scope of herbal medicine has never, ~in the history of the world~, been 

as narrow as it is under the scientific model.>



Or focused.



<("studies" claimed sassafras is carcinogenic, and so we can't drink sassafras 

root beer anymore.>



Another not-so-accurate interpretation. Studies found safrole and isosafrole 

are potential carcinogenic, not sassafras itself.



<So information based on experience is empowering.  What it does do, which

offers the potentials for the dangers that you assert to it, is make people

responsible for whose word they take.  Thta's a very real danger, not to be

taken lightly.  My experience, though, is that much of the misinformation my

students and clients have learned comes from "studies", whose accuracy was

assumed because "science supported it".>



But the same thing can be said information based on anecdotal evidence. Many 

people assume information they learned from *teachers* is accurate because of 

the "source". The process of refining "art" is empirical, and that's what 

science does to get something to work.



<Often these studies toof place in a petri dish.  I just can't let the people 

I work with accept that without considering other perspectives.>



I am not aware of any studies that toof place in petri dishes. Anyway, isn't 

the above statement opposite of what you have done in the past?



Hideka



From texasbluebonnets@comcast.net Wed Mar 19 20:29:43 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Kava

From: Cindy Lee <texasbluebonnets@comcast.net>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:29:43 -0600



Regarding the use of Kava,  I use to use it everyday for anxiety and just to all around help keep me calmed down. I get pa nic attacks. and it worked wo nders for me.  I discovered kava in one of those SObe Drinks, I cant remember what the drink name is now. but they stopped selling that one. I took the kava capsules for over a year and they worked really good. but now all this talk about how harmful it is for you just scares me.  I am curious to know has anyone ever had a bad experience ith Kava?



cindy



From darcyblue@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 20:36:46 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Kava

From: "Darcey Blue" <darcyblue@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:36:46 -0700



I'm not a professional here yet, but i'd be wary of taking just about 

anything, herb, pill or otherwise every single day. JMHO

Darcey



----Original Message Follows----

From: Cindy Lee <texasbluebonnets@comcast.net>

Reply-To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Kava

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:29:43 -0600



Regarding the use of Kava,  I use to use it everyday for anxiety and just to 

all around help keep me calmed down. I get pa nic attacks. and it worked wo 

nders for me.  I discovered kava in one of those SObe Drinks, I cant 

remember what the drink name is now. but they stopped selling that one. I 

took the kava capsules for over a year and they worked really good. but now 

all this talk about how harmful it is for you just scares me.  I am curious 

to know has anyone ever had a bad experience ith Kava?



cindy



From hetta@spamcop.net Wed Mar 19 20:46:53 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Kava

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:46:53 +0200



Darcey Blue wrote:

> Cindy wrote:

>> Regarding the use of Kava,  I use to use it everyday for anxiety and just 

to 

>> all around help keep me calmed down. I get pa nic attacks. and it worked wo 

>> nders for me.  I discovered kava in one of those SObe Drinks, I cant 

>> remember what the drink name is now. but they stopped selling that one. I 

>> took the kava capsules for over a year and they worked really good. 



> I'm not a professional here yet, but i'd be wary of taking just about 

> anything, herb, pill or otherwise every single day. JMHO



Ah, but Darcey, you haven't met panic attacks. If you've seen (or got them) 

them you'll know that anything is better than that.



Also, there _are_ herbs that are safe for everyday use for years. The trick is 

to know which herbs -- and for which people.



And read this: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html



>> but now 

>> all this talk about how harmful it is for you just scares me.  I am curious 

>> to know has anyone ever had a bad experience ith Kava?



You might get strange scaly spots on the palms of your hands... a sign that 

the liver is under pressure. If you do, take some silybum along with your 

kave. Daily.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 21:11:24 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Kava

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:11:24 -0500



>Regarding the use of Kava,  I use to use it everyday for anxiety and just 

>to all around help keep me calmed down. I get pa nic attacks. and it worked 

>wo nders for me.  I discovered kava in one of those SObe Drinks, I cant 

>remember what the drink name is now. but they stopped selling that one. I 

>took the kava capsules for over a year and they worked really good. but now 

>all this talk about how harmful it is for you just scares me.  I am curious 

>to know has anyone ever had a bad experience ith Kava?



Personally, I've always associated proper Kava use as being event related: 

you work a long day with lots of hassle, have a dreadful 4 mile, 2 hour ride 

home, realize you were supposed to stop and drop something off and didn't, 

and feel physically tense and emotionally wired.  Tension is settled into 

the musculature of yor body, your not necessarily in a bad mood, but rattled 

and just can't seem to shake it.  That's when I find Kava is unequalled.



I've taken Kava in capsules (don't ~personnally~ recommend that), in tea, 

prepared as a traditional cold infusion, as a tincture and even chewed up 

and spit out large quantities of the fresh root, added water and drank that 

(the REAL traditional method of preparation, minus that I'm not a bare 

chested virgin girl, and I used muslin, and not banana leaves to strain the 

drink).  Never had, nor seen any problems with any of these preparations.  

John Fowler, a Kava grower in Hawaii where I get my Kava from, says he lived 

for years on Vanuatu where the Natives could drink more Kava than we could 

dream of, and there was never any "liver damage" in those populations.



Longterm, excessive use can cause the dry, scaly skin Henriette refered to 

(natives call it alligator skin), but refraining from use for a short time 

resolves the problem.  Remember Kava is in the pepper family, its hot & 

drying.  The "drier" a person is, the more of a concern this might be.  

Still, its relatively uncommon.



Dale Pendell notes that on some islands, among the natives only men drank 

kava (and LOTS), and there was no discernable health problems they had that 

women didn't.



MY thoughts on the issue of Kava safety is that you should avoid 

standardized Kava extract.  A preparation with 80% kavalactones is no longer 

Kava Kava.



Otherwise, I see little problems with longterm use, though, again, that's 

not what I use it for:



Anxiety/panic attacks get Calamus root to chew on during an episode, and 

tonic nervines like Wood Betony & Skullcap to lessen occurance.



AND Breath exercises AND an outlet to talk about what might be stressing 

them



From phosphor@hotkey.net.au Wed Mar 19 22:59:19 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Kava

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor@hotkey.net.au>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:59:19 +1000



<Tension is settled into the musculature of yor body, your not necessarily

in a bad mood, but rattled and just can't seem to shake it.  That's when I

find Kava is unequalled.>



what about beer or cider? more readily available, and within our culture.



andrew



From asackett@artsackett.com Wed Mar 19 23:17:25 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Kava

From: Art Sackett <asackett@artsackett.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:17:25 -0700



On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 06:59:19AM +1000, Phosphor wrote:



> what about beer or cider? more readily available, and within our culture.



The risk of addiction is pretty great with those, and for some people 

the lowering of inhibition can be dangerous.



Don't get me wrong: I like alcoholic beverages, I even work two nights 

a week in a liquor store for the entertainment value. A client who 

moved to Australia brings me back a sixer or more of VB every time he 

visits the US, ships it to me if he's not coming to Colorado. But there 

are those for whom alcohol is a very risky proposition.



-- 

----   Art Sackett   ----



If we could sell our experiences for what they cost us, we would

all be millionaires.

		-- Abigail Van Buren



From darcyblue@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 23:01:41 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Kava

From: "Darcey Blue" <darcyblue@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:01:41 -0700



Because some of us don't drink alcohol.

darcey



what about beer or cider? more readily available, and within our culture.



andrew



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 23:14:09 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Kava

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:14:09 -0500



><Tension is settled into the musculature of yor body, your not necessarily

>in a bad mood, but rattled and just can't seem to shake it.  That's when I

>find Kava is unequalled.>

>

>what about beer or cider? more readily available, and within our culture.



ah... hard cider is another favorite of mine after such a day.  Kava, 

though, really acts much more pronounced upon the tight muscles; it helps 

you body let go in a way that a hopped beer or fermented cider just doesn't 

touch (though you can get a lot closer by adding a squirt or two of 

Chamomile tincture to a bottle of hard cider...)



From HerbalSW@aol.com Thu Mar 20 00:10:07 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Kava

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:10:07 EST



beer and cider (if it is herd) are addictive and potentially dangerous for 

someone with anxiety



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From dpotocki@erols.com Wed Mar 19 21:02:19 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: burdock and others

From: Donna Potocki <dpotocki@erols.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:02:19 -0500



I am very interested in the concept of fusion (cooking with herbs to improve

one's health). To do that, however, it seems important to know how the

fresh-from-the-garden medicinal herbs would translate into appropriate culinary

ingredients and in what amounts. I. e. what might the equivalents of fresh herbs

vs. dried or tinctured herbs?  How often could the herbs be consumed....? Some

which come to mind are echinaecia, dandelion greens, burdock leaves (?); loveage

stalks and leaves; and other herbs which are not so commonly considered in a

culinary sense. I don't  want to send anyone from the dinner table too quickly

by using a few too many burdock leaves or such. :-)  Any book titles or comments

would be appreciated.  I already have several herbals which discuss the internal

vs. external  uses of herbs, so that information is not what I am after.  Thanks

in advance for any help.



Donna



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 21:26:06 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: burdock and others

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:26:06 -0500



Burdock:  good slivered in stirfrys with carrots, Peapods, waterchestnuts, 

Arame, green onions, lots of sesame seeds, etc.  Use just a bit less than 

the qunaity of slivered carrots.  A spicy hot sauce to drizzle over it can 

be made by combining 3 TBSP Tamari, 2 TBSN Rice Vinegar, 1 TBSN Hot chili 

sesame oil with a heaping teaspoon each of chinese mustard & chili paste.



Dandelions: blend perfectly with Tomato sauce... add them, uncooked, to 

Lasagna, pasta, Bruschetta, or pizzas.



there's a GREAT wild cookbook called "the wild vegetarian cookbook", by 

steve burl (berl?).  He once got arrested for eating a dandelion in central 

park.



From: Donna Potocki <dpotocki@erols.com>

>Reply-To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

>To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

>Subject: [herb] Re: burdock and others

>Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:02:19 -0500

>

>I am very interested in the concept of fusion (cooking with herbs to 

>improve

>one's health). To do that, however, it seems important to know how the

>fresh-from-the-garden medicinal herbs would translate into appropriate 

>culinary

>ingredients and in what amounts. I. e. what might the equivalents of fresh 

>herbs

>vs. dried or tinctured herbs?  How often could the herbs be consumed....? 

>Some

>which come to mind are echinaecia, dandelion greens, burdock leaves (?); 

>loveage

>stalks and leaves; and other herbs which are not so commonly considered in 

>a

>culinary sense. I don't  want to send anyone from the dinner table too 

>quickly

>by using a few too many burdock leaves or such. :-)  Any book titles or 

>comments

>would be appreciated.  I already have several herbals which discuss the 

>internal

>vs. external  uses of herbs, so that information is not what I am after.  

>Thanks

>in advance for any help.

>

>Donna



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Mon Mar 24 09:23:04 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: burdock and others

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 02:23:04 -0500 (EST)



from Donna Potocki <dpotocki@erols.com>:



> I am very interested in the concept of fusion (cooking with herbs to improve

> one's health). 

(snip)



I too have been using fusion, though I didn't think of it by that name.  One of

the first medicinal herbs that I used in cooking was papaya leaf to help me

digest something that would otherwise likely cause ill digestive symptoms.  I

am always looking for herbs/spices that will help keep me breathing without a

struggle several hours later, and to help me eat better.  I have to estimate

appropriate amounts of herbs without good published information, aware that

even if you find a recipe telling how much of a spice to use, it could still 

be too little or too much.



From elementalclay@webtv.net Mon Mar 24 10:23:50 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: burdock and others

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 02:23:50 -0600 (CST)



Thomas,

  I just trust instinct on cooking with herbs.

Parsley buttered potatoes become nettle potatoes.  Dandelion dried leaf

goes in the stew pot.

  I'm not trying to herbally medicate thru food but enhance a cold

climate diet.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From HerbalSW@aol.com Wed Mar 19 21:36:57 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] bottom balm

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:36:57 EST



Can I use St. John's Wort in an infused oil for diaper rash and made into a 

butt balm?



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 22:37:25 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] bottom balm

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:37:25 -0500



>Can I use St. John's Wort in an infused oil for diaper rash and made into a

>butt balm?



Only if you promise to name it that!



From sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de Thu Mar 20 04:26:55 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] bottom balm

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 03:26:55 +0100



Re 'butt balm'



> Only if you promise to name it that!



darn, I knew I forgot to patent that name <lol>



Sorcy, (been making 'buttbalm' for ages... mostly with yarrow, plantain,

cloverblossoms, cleavers, comfrey, calendula, propolis, honey, beewax, and a

few other odds and ends :)



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Wed Mar 19 22:53:46 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] bottom balm

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:53:46 -0500



> Can I use St. John's Wort in an infused oil for diaper rash and made into

a

> butt balm?



I do- I make a salve with SJW and calendula for regular use...

sometimes I add shea butter , too...if Im feeling exotic. Mostly I like good

ol local beeswax- I still have some from the Sonoran desert and I swear that

beeswax has special powers!



michelle



From sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de Thu Mar 20 04:23:35 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] bottom balm

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 03:23:35 +0100



> I do- I make a salve with SJW and calendula for regular use... sometimes I

add shea butter , too

Mostly I like good

> ol local beeswax-

---------------

great choices, but I also swear by zinc added!!



Sorcy



From HerbalSW@aol.com Thu Mar 20 00:07:34 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] bottom balm

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:07:34 EST



I am thinking of calling it boo boo balm for your baby's butt.

too long and not so marketable but pretty funny if 



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From gardenthymeherbs@yahoo.com Thu Mar 20 15:13:20 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] bottom balm

From: The Gardenthyme Lady <gardenthymeherbs@yahoo.com>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:13:20 -0800 (PST)



I am making some baby balm too, I've previously made

it using calendula in Jojoba and St. John's Wort in

Olive Oil, I was thinking about adding some All Heal

Prunella Vulgaris, do you think this would be too

stong a herb for their skin?  The child has very bad

rashes.

Dee

--- HerbalSW@aol.com wrote:

> I am thinking of calling it boo boo balm for your

> baby's butt.

> too long and not so marketable but pretty funny if 

> 

> Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

> Eagle Spirit Healing Center

> Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

> www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From earthmedicine@mindspring.com Thu Mar 20 15:46:07 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] bottom balm

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine@mindspring.com>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:46:07 -0600



I use SJW, calendula, plantain, chickweed and may be adding or

substituting self heal this year.  This has proven to be a very

effective fresh infused salve for me.



Blessings,

Erica



From Jeninct2@aol.com Thu Mar 20 21:52:27 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] bottom balm

From: Jeninct2@aol.com

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:52:27 EST



Hi!



I have used SJW infused oil in my boo boo and butt balm  and feel it is an 

excellent and benefical ingredient.



It started out as being called Kayleigh's Butt Balm (named for my first 

grandchild). She is two now and we switched to Kayleigh's Boo Boo Balm...it 

is also great for bruises.



I infuse my SJW in Jojoba oil instead of a veg oil...the rest of the herbs 

are infused in Almond oil with the addition of Jojoba oil...then blended with 

local beewax.



Take Care!



Jen in CT 



From texasbluebonnets@comcast.net Thu Mar 20 02:01:31 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Panic Attacks

From: Cindy Lee <texasbluebonnets@comcast.net>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 18:01:31 -0600



Well I have heard metioned scullcap before for panic attacks. and a woman I work with is trying something called Holy Basil, but she says it makes her sleepy. 

So in ya'lls opinion,  which would be a better herb to try?  Wood betony I thought increased high blood pressure or maybe I am wrong about that I cant remember. but I have high blood pressure so I cant take anything that will make tht worse.



cindy



From emizzi@earthlink.net Thu Mar 20 02:56:21 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Source for Monastery Herbs

From: Elaine Izzi <emizzi@earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:56:21 -0500



To anyone,

My holistic physician has recommended that I use Monastery Herbs who has a 

special formulation for dealing with babesios, a Lyme disease 

co-infection.  I have been unable to find a way to contact them.  Can 

anyone help?  TIA - Elaine



From Melesana@aol.com Thu Mar 20 07:18:03 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Source for Monastery Herbs

From: Melesana@aol.com

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 00:18:03 EST



In a message dated 3/19/03 5:53:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 

emizzi@earthlink.net writes:



> Monastery Herbs 



Could that be Mountain Rose Herbs?  



<A HREF="www.mountainroseherbs.com">www.mountainroseherbs.com</A>



Meg



From elementalclay@webtv.net Thu Mar 20 10:12:20 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: Re: [herb] Source for Monastery Herbs

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:12:20 -0600 (CST)



  I have found references for Father Pierre's Monastery Herbs in two

places both of which are lists of medicinal items physcians may not

prescribe.  One is Ireland in 1995 and the other is Scotland's doctors

in 1997.

  It is amazing at how many Father Pierres are related in searches to

remedies, herbs, medicine and folk medicine.  However, I cannot find

"the" Father Pierre.

Roxanne



From herbgatherer@hotmail.com Thu Mar 20 14:16:16 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Source for Monastery Herbs

From: "Pamela Quayle" <herbgatherer@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:16:16 -0500



> My holistic physician has recommended that I use Monastery Herbs who has a

> special formulation for dealing with babesios, a Lyme disease

> co-infection.  I have been unable to find a way to contact them.  Can

> anyone help?  TIA - Elaine



I found them in a Google search not long ago.



Pamela



From sc62@charter.net Thu Mar 20 05:04:45 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Herbal detox/Alteratives

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:04:45 -0500



> From: "jim mcdonald" >

>

> Open question to the list (particulary you lurkers who listen but don't

say

> as much):

>

> How many of you really feel like you know what an "alterative" is and

does,

> and would know how to differentiate between them if you wanted to put

> together a personalized formula for yourself or someone else?

>

> I just feel like most "new to the field" enthusiasts have no idea what

> alterative herbs really do, outside of being "blood purifiers" or "spring

> tonics".  Elaborating on this might be useful...

>



 I would like to know more about choosing which alterative would be the most

effective for your personal condition(s), and of family members.



What confuses me too is ,if you are trying to treat more than one condition

at a time, how do you schedule all the tinctures and such x amount of times

a day.



I know you would choose to address the acute situation first, and then work

on the chronic ones, but how much time do you allow between  each different

tincture for a _separate_ condition? I usually take the same one three times

a day for the one problem, but wait a half hour in between , to take a

different one for a separate condition. Is that right?

And, do you work on all the chronic ailments at the same time, because some

herbs work so slowly, you might not want to wait for one long-standing

problem to clear up to start working on another.



How do you sort it all out and get it all together so that you're being the

most effective and not overloading the system?



Thanks,

Sandra



From phosphor@hotkey.net.au Thu Mar 20 05:31:14 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Herbal detox/Alteratives

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor@hotkey.net.au>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:31:14 +1000



< How many of you really feel like you know what an "alterative" is and

does>



my two cents...

1. alteratives restore enzymatic pathways knocked out by fevers and other

debilitating illnesses. [purely my guess]

2. they also kill off viruses lingering in the system.



andrew



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Thu Mar 20 13:05:04 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [Herb] liver herbs

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:05:04 -0500 (EST)



> Caricatures:



> Cold liver: Problems with fat or protein digestion; allergies; gut troubles; 

> liver geared towards fuel, ie. under stress such a person bounces off walls 

> and ceiling; and this is the type that says "and I've never dieted in my 

> life!". Which is unfair to the "hot" liver folks, really. They live a 

> troubled life, gutwise, and die old and skinny. They can't NOT eat simple 

> carbs (potatoes, rice, bread, sugar, fruit) - unless you give them liver 

> herbs, to heat the liver up.

> Low or normal blood pressure, depending on the kidneys.



> Hot liver: loves fats and proteins, never has allergies or gut troubles (but 

> might get a short-lived itchy rash from eating way too much of much too rich 

> foods); liver geared towards building more, ie. under stress such a person 

> _grows_. Tends to live life to the full, and tends to die young(ish), of 

> heart troubles - all that fat, dontchaknow.

> Generally high blood pressure - again, all that fat, dontchaknow. They can't 

> NOT eat fat - unless you give them liver herbs to cool the liver down.



> There's a third stress response, hypo/hyperthyroid; it's not as clearcut as 

> the liver responses.



> You could do worse than go read Michael Moore's herbal energetics booklet off 

> his site: swsbm.com - go for his manuals.



> Henriette



Now, I see after catching up on email, where I stand regarding cold vs. hot

liver.  I seem to digest fat better than protein but still remain skinny, now

up to 50 kg.  I think potatoes are actually complex carbs, starch as opposed to

sugar.  Starches tend to be heavy on the stomach and give me a feeling of

resistance to swallowing, but not all equally.  I can take yellow-ripe platanos

much better than green platanos, and also like the large taro with purple

streaks through the otherwise white flesh; can't take potatoes at all.  But I

eat a lot of fruit, well above the US national average.



Starchy foods are not really so essential to life; hunter-gatherers ate very

litle starch because such foods were not available in pre-agricultural days,

and some people today advocate the paleolithic diet.



Fish for me tends to be heavy on the stomach, and more recently the respiratory

system as well, probably an allergy involved.  First there is the throat tickle

and chest tightness for the following night, then there is soreness in the roof

of the mouth about 48 hours delayed, followed by copious sputum for about ten

days, and I think this now is true for nonfish seafood as well as fish.  I seem

able to prevent the secondary 48-hours-delayed reaction by eating fresh raw

pineapple with the fish or shellfish, and need green tea in addition to other

herbs to cope with the primary asthmatic reaction.  But it reaches a point

where the primary asthmatic reaction escalates, and then I need an extended

moratorium from all seafood like six to eight months or more, with or without

liver herbs.  I see there are people who can get severe anaphylactic reactions

to fish or shellfish, I haven't reached that level of severity yet.  If I try to

go back to fish or shellfish after an eight-month moratorium, I will likely run

into adverse reactions, and it will again be time for an extended moratorium.



From Wjp1816@aol.com Thu Mar 20 16:11:37 2003

To: Herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Change e-mail address

From: Wjp1816@aol.com

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:11:37 EST



Heneretta,



I am changing my ISP and would like to change my e-mail address from



       wjp1816@aol.com   to wjp1816@nycap.rr.com



Please send me information on I can effect this change.



Thanks,

Bill Pizer

Albany, NY



From hetta@spamcop.net Thu Mar 20 17:07:49 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Change e-mail address

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:07:49 +0200



Wjp1816@aol.com wrote:



> I am changing my ISP and would like to change my e-mail address from

>        wjp1816@aol.com   to wjp1816@nycap.rr.com

> Please send me information on I can effect this change.



Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT send administrative messages to the full list.



Bill, you can't change email addresses onlist - you have to unsub one and sub 

the other. This because otherwise people could sign up, confirm, and 

immediately after that go in and change the sub'd address to somebody else's. 

A list which allows email address switches in mid-run, as it were, is as 

insecure as one that doesn't require new subscribers to reply to a 

confirmation message.



Anyway, you'll need your password to unsub, and all passwords were changed in 

the recent hiatus. To get the current one, enter your email address in the 

last field on this http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/herb -page and 

press enter. Then go about halfway down the page and press "send me my 

password". Then unsub, either over the webpage or via email.



Henriette, listowner.



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Thu Mar 20 17:19:20 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Alteratives

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:19:20 -0500



What is an alterative anyway?

Although alteratives make up one of the most useful and widely used class of 

remedies in  the western materia medica, the class itself is also perhaps 

the most poorly defined.  What is an alterative?  If you were to ask a dozen 

different herbalists, you'd likely get a dozen different answers.  Beyond 

that, you'd probably get a bunch of vague suggestions rather than a concise 

definition.  Let us consider some of the many definitions given by some of 

the most notable herbalists of the last few centuries:



~John William Fyfe, MD:  Alteratives produce gradually such a change in the 

functions of organs as to permit a healthy action to take the place of 

disease.



~Rosemary Gladstar:  Alteratives are blood cleansers and purifiers.  This is 

the classic old fashioned term for herbs that, while very broad based in 

their modes of action, nourish  and cleanse the blood of toxins by 

stimulating liver function



~Matthew Wood:  Alteratives... alter the body in some way... acting on the 

lymphatics and liver to remove metabolic waste products... The word 

'alterative' is not very satisfying.



~David Hoffman:  Gradually restore proper body function, increasing health & 

vitality.  Some alteratives support natural waste elimination via the liver, 

kidneys lungs and skin.  Others stimulate digestive function and are 

antimicrobial, while others just work - and we don't know why!



~Donald Yance:  Stimulates a change of a defensive or healing nature in 

metabolism or tissue function when there is chronic or acute disease



~Harvey Wickes Felter:  A drug which causes a favorable change or alteration 

in the process of nutrition and repair, probably through some unknown way 

improving metabolism



~Michael Moore: a term applied in naturopathic, Eclectic, and Thomsonian 

medicine to those plants or procedures that stimulate changes of a defensive 

or healing nature in metabolism or tissue function when there is chronic or 

acute diseases. The whole concept of alteratives is based on the premise 

that in a normally healthy person, disease symptoms are the external signs 

of activated internal defenses and, as such, should be stimulated and not 

suppressed... The term alterative is sometimes inaccurately used as a 

synonym for "blood purifier," particularly by nature-cure neo-Thomsonians 

such as Jethro Kloss and John Christopher.  "Blood purifier" is a term 

better applied to the liver, spleen, and kidneys, not to some dried plant.



~Michael Tierra:  These are agents that gradually and favorably alter the 

condition of the body.  They are used for treating toxicity of the blood, 

infections, arthritis & skin eruptions.  Alteratives also help the body to 

assimilate nutrients and eliminate waste products of metabolism.  The choice 

of alterative depends on matching the accompanying properties of the herb 

with the specific nature of the condition being treated.



Clearly, all of these  definitions, though differing, indicate alteratives 

to be nourishing, restorative tonics.  Most will agree that alteratives tend 

to act upon the lymphatics, liver and kidneys, and that they strengthen the 

body through detoxification.  However, the collective definitions also leave 

room for remedies that have a demonstative tonic effect on health, but seem 

to fit "outside the box" of any specific definition.



Often, alteratives will be refered to as "blood purifiers" (as noted with 

slight disdain by Mr. Moore...), however, these herbs do not generally 

affect the blood directly, rather, cleaner blood is the ~result~ of their 

effect upon metabolic organs and processes.  The quality of the blood is of 

fundamental importance in the use of alteratives, as it is often via the 

blood that an imbalance of one organ or system will affect and disrupt the 

proper functioning of others.



Were I to offer my own vague definition to the lot (which I'm about to do), 

I would describe alteratives as herbs that "feed and nourish the body to 

promote ~systemic harmony~".  What this means is that they get the 

individual organs and systems of the body working in tune with each other, 

which in turn improves the functioning of the whole. This rather ambiguous 

summation is inclusive enough to include all of the herbs I personally 

consider alteratives...  Each individual alterative also has special 

affinities.  If we learn about these herbs, we can discover what these are 

and use these specific indications to create blends to address individual 

circumstances.  For example, nettles & oats nourish the adrenals, and can 

help to focus on that area if it is a significant factor in the imbalance.



Being a ~little~ more specific, though, I generally identify alteratives as 

herbs that strengthen health by nourishing the body and promoting both 

assimilation and detoxification by improving metabolism.   They can be, 

then, desribed as "metabolic tonics".  The notion here is based on clear 

reasonong and common sense:



If the use of alteratives somehow coordinates and improves metabolic 

processes, organs and systems, we are better able to utilize the nutrients 

available in the food and drink we consume, and better able to remove the 

waste products that result from using these processes.  By keeping the 

metabolism working efficiently, we don't have to resort to drastic purges to 

"clean things out", things are kept clean as a part of a smoothly running 

process.  Or, to give a more clear example, cleaning the house daily as 

things go along is easy... waiting every three months is a lot harder 

because things build up.



THIS is why using alteratives on a regular basis is better than "detoxing" 

every few months.



Someday I'll finish the book I'm trying to write on this topic... at the 

rate I'm going, I should be...  2,634 years old... good thing I'm using 

these herbs, eh?



From tassbaby@senet.com.au Thu Mar 20 23:21:58 2003

To: Herb list <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Book on herbs for children 

From: Kirsty Tassell <tassbaby@senet.com.au>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:51:58 +1030



A few weeks back there was a suggestion of a good book on herbs for kids 

- I wrote it down and put the piece of paper away in a very safe place 

and ..........

Kirsty



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Thu Mar 20 23:57:56 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Book on herbs for children 

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:57:56 -0500



The ones I know of are-



-Naturally Healthy Babies and Children by Aviva Romm

-The Herbal for Mother and Child by Anne McIntyre

-Natures Children by Juliette de Bairacli Levy

-Encyclopedia of Natural Healing for Children and Infants by Mary Bove



I also have the Book of TCM Pediatrics by Bob Flaws- It is a textbook and I

think he has a "laypersons" guide as well- My friend and I call this book-

"How to treat every ailment with a clear bland diet..." but it does have

some usefiul info if you like TCM...



Jonathan Treasure has a good review on a few of the aforementioned on his

herbal bookworm site

 http://www.herbological.com/bookworm.html

look under archives...



I find that most books written for childrens health tend to err on the side

of caution...I would like something a bit more in depth at times...



Michelle



From SmallShipCruises@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 20 22:52:05 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Book on herbs for children 

From: "Robert Linde" <SmallShipCruises@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:52:05 -0400



I think Leslie Tierra has a book out as well. Although I have heard good

things about it, I have not yet read it.

Bob



----- Original Message -----

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 5:57 PM

Subject: Re: [herb] Book on herbs for children



The ones I know of are-



-Naturally Healthy Babies and Children by Aviva Romm

-The Herbal for Mother and Child by Anne McIntyre

-Natures Children by Juliette de Bairacli Levy

-Encyclopedia of Natural Healing for Children and Infants by Mary Bove



I also have the Book of TCM Pediatrics by Bob Flaws- It is a textbook and I

think he has a "laypersons" guide as well- My friend and I call this book-

"How to treat every ailment with a clear bland diet..." but it does have

some usefiul info if you like TCM...



Jonathan Treasure has a good review on a few of the aforementioned on his

herbal bookworm site

 http://www.herbological.com/bookworm.html

look under archives...



I find that most books written for childrens health tend to err on the side

of caution...I would like something a bit more in depth at times...



Michelle



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Fri Mar 21 00:03:55 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Book on herbs for children 

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:03:55 -0500



> I think Leslie Tierra has a book out as well. Although I have heard good

> things about it, I have not yet read it.

> Bob



Lesleys book is sweet- it is geared towards teaching kids about herbs- it

has some great projects- highly recommended...

Michelle



From elementalclay@webtv.net Fri Mar 21 06:34:07 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Monastery of Herbs

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:34:07 -0600 (CST)



I found this with a reference to lyme disease.

Monastery of Herbs

PO Box 3123

Granada Hills, Ca 91394

USA

(800) 352-4372

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Fri Mar 21 07:05:56 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Monastery of Herbs

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:05:56 EST



In a message dated 3/20/2003 11:34:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

elementalclay@webtv.net writes:



> I found this with a reference to lyme disease



Hi Roxanne ~



I had to answer this one...we treated some cases of lyme here in Maryland 

last summer.  They had the center bite and the rash as well.  We used 

homeopathic Ledum 30X in a potentized dose once a day for 3 days in a row for 

one week; then 3 days in a row for a second week.  They had to eat a 

completely natural diet, and we used herbal cleanses 4 weeks into treatment.  

The cleanses were quite gentle and consisted of chamomile teas at night (as a 

diuretic); cilantro tincture with parsley; and some green teas.  The length 

of treatment lasted up to 2 months with a revisit of the Ledum as needed.



Warmly ~

Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From tmueller@bluegrass.net Sat Mar 29 08:35:19 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Monastery of Herbs

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller@bluegrass.net>

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 01:35:19 -0500 (EST)



> I had to answer this one...we treated some cases of lyme here in Maryland 

> last summer.  They had the center bite and the rash as well.  We used 

> homeopathic Ledum 30X in a potentized dose once a day for 3 days in a row for 

> one week; then 3 days in a row for a second week.  They had to eat a 

> completely natural diet, and we used herbal cleanses 4 weeks into treatment.  

> The cleanses were quite gentle and consisted of chamomile teas at night (as a 

> diuretic); cilantro tincture with parsley; and some green teas.  The length 

> of treatment lasted up to 2 months with a revisit of the Ledum as needed.



> Warmly ~

> Mary L. Conley, ND

> MS Natural Health, Herbalist



Did you treat these cases of Lyme entirely without conventional antibiotics?

Was it successful?



What role did Ledum 30X play?  Would a lower homeopathic potency have worked,

and what about Ledum non-homeopathic herb?



From emizzi@earthlink.net Fri Mar 21 12:56:36 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Monastery of Herbs

From: Elaine Izzi <emizzi@earthlink.net>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:56:36 -0500



Thanks Roxanne, I feel certain this is the right place! Elaine



>I found this with a reference to lyme disease.

>Monastery of Herbs

>PO Box 3123

>Granada Hills, Ca 91394

>USA

>(800) 352-4372

>Roxanne

>



From herbgatherer@hotmail.com Fri Mar 21 14:57:02 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Lyme - was Monastery of Herbs

From: "Pamela Quayle" <herbgatherer@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:57:02 -0500



we treated some cases of lyme here in Maryland last summer.    We used

> homeopathic Ledum 30X in a potentized dose once a day for 3 days in a row

for

> one week; then 3 days in a row for a second week.  They had to eat a

> completely natural diet, and we used herbal cleanses 4 weeks into

treatment.

> The cleanses were quite gentle and consisted of chamomile teas at night

(as a

> diuretic); cilantro tincture with parsley; and some green teas.  The

length

> of treatment lasted up to 2 months with a revisit of the Ledum as needed.

> Mary L. Conley, ND



These sound like newly acquired cases - have you treated any long standing

cases?



Why are you using cilantro?



I am working with a neighbor who has had Lyme for several years.  She has

had resorted to intravenous antibiotics four times and is currently on it.

She feels like the antibiotics are slowly helping.  I've talked with her

throughout the term of the disease, but she hasn't been willing to accept

that she should be consistent in her therapy and not flit from one doctor or

alternative therapy to another seaking some quick relief.  I think she is

finally there and am hoping to seriously work with her now.



Over the years of listening to her symptoms - and after a bout with Lyme

myself last year - I feel that the damage is in the nervous system rather

than the ever changing areas of the body that symptoms are felt.



We are working with Avena sativa and Astragalus while she is on the

antibiotics - to support the nervous and immune systems.  Diet is fairly

good and exercise including walking and stress relieving movement are

consistent.



I would love to hear of others experience working with deep seated Lyme.  Or

opinions on my idea of it mainly centering in the nervous system.



Pamela



From alaena@diamon-naturals.com Fri Mar 21 15:45:53 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] RE: Alteratives

From: "Alaena Diamon" <alaena@diamon-naturals.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:45:53 -0600



Jim McDonald wrote:

>Being a ~little~ more specific, though, I generally identify alteratives as

>herbs that strengthen health by nourishing the body and promoting both

>assimilation and detoxification by improving metabolism.   They can be,

>then, described as "metabolic tonics".



Which herbs do you consider "metabolic tonics"?

Alaena



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Fri Mar 21 16:46:28 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] RE: Alteratives

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:46:28 -0500



>Which herbs do you consider "metabolic tonics"?

>Alaena



Burdock, Yellow Dock, Oregon Grape, Mullein Leaf & root, Celastrus, 

Sassafras, Sarsparilla, Nettle, Agrimony, Dandelion, Echinacea (in a formula 

- not in heroic doses), Cleavers, Red Root, Calendula, Chickweed, Plantain, 

Violet, Ground Ivy, Poke... and then there are herbs that more directly 

affect certain systems or conditions:  Hawthorne, Milky Oats, Wild Indigo, 

'cetera, 'cetera.



Again, the key is knowing how to differentiate them by the specific niches 

they fill, and using that knowledge to guide formula making.  Just throwing 

X number of them together because they're "metabolic tonics" wouldn't 

necessarily create a useful formula.



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Fri Mar 21 16:49:58 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Vinca

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:49:58 -0500



Anybody use periwinkle (vinca), and understand it outside of just using it 

on astringent indications?  I seem to have read once, or been told (hell, 

maybe I dreampt it...) that it was especially effective for strengthening 

capilaries & blood vessels, but I can't seem to find where I read 

that/remember where I heard that.



From williamj@nac.net Sun Mar 23 20:48:26 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Vinca

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj@nac.net>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:48:26 -0500



I have a friend that takes a combination of Vinpocetine and Huperzine for

memory.  I read somewhere " or dreamt it" that VINPOCETINE IS AN EXTRACT OF

vINCA.



the VINPOCETINE IS ADDED FOR CIRCULATION PROTECTION ON THE PRODUCT LABEL,

5MG DAILY.



About Vinca generally, I believe it is a sedative,  which I read somewhere

long ago and not listed in any book I now have.  But I've never used it.



Bill



Original Message -----

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>



> Anybody use periwinkle (vinca), and understand it outside of just using it

> on astringent indications?  I seem to have read once, or been told (hell,

> maybe I dreampt it...) that it was especially effective for strengthening

> capilaries & blood vessels, but I can't seem to find where I read

> that/remember where I heard that.

>

>



From dan@awherbals.com Sun Mar 23 21:12:47 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Vinca

From: Dan <dan@awherbals.com>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:12:47 -0800



I've used Vinca on two occasions. Neither have i recieved much feedback 

from the clients.



The first is in a Migraine program as the second to last herb to try when 

the rest have failed to slow or stop the migraine. I first use aromatics 

like thuja or anemone, then aromatic antispasmodtics like epipactus. Those 

both need to be done in the aura stage to prevent a full blown migraine. 

Once the Migraine is there then vasoconstrictors such as prescription 

drugs, caffeine, and VINCA... Then if those fail i use a vasodialator like 

clematis..



The other use for Vinca is it can be very effective to stop bleeding 

especially of vaginal/uterine origin. I have a client i gave it to who has 

a bleeding disorder. She hasn't since had cause to use it so no feedback 

from her..



The source on these uses comes from Michael Moore.



Dan McDonley



On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:49:58 -0500, jim mcdonald <multiflorum@hotmail.com> 

wrote:



> Anybody use periwinkle (vinca), and understand it outside of just using 

> it on astringent indications?  I seem to have read once, or been told 

> (hell, maybe I dreampt it...) that it was especially effective for 

> strengthening capilaries & blood vessels, but I can't seem to find where 

> I read that/remember where I heard that.



-- 

"The Divine is not something high above us. It is in heaven, it is in 

earth, it is inside of us." - Morihei Ueshiba.



From normand@onlink.net Wed Mar 26 15:49:23 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Vinca

From: "J&S Normand" <normand@onlink.net>

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:49:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)



 Periwinkle has two alkaloids, vinblastine and vincristine, which act as a

liquid "sponge" causing blood to absorb oxygen. Also it will aid stopping

internal hemorraging, bloody noses and bleeding piles.


I remember reading somewhere as well that it is being researched in lung

cancer......but darn if it doesn't slip my mind where I read it....sorry


 


 


 


-------Original Message-------


 


From: Herb


Date: March 21, 2003 09:50:10 AM


To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org


Subject: [herb] Vinca


 


Anybody use periwinkle (vinca), and understand it outside of just using it 


on astringent indications? I seem to have read once, or been told (hell, 


maybe I dreampt it...) that it was especially effective for strengthening 


capilaries & blood vessels, but I can't seem to find where I read 


that/remember where I heard that.


 




From niamhmcginley@tiscali.co.uk Wed Mar 26 23:10:48 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Vinca

From: "Niamh Mcginley" <niamhmcginley@tiscali.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:10:48 -0000



From: jim mcdonald <multiflorum@hotmail.com>



> Anybody use periwinkle (vinca), and understand it outside of just using it

> on astringent indications?  I seem to have read once, or been told (hell,

> maybe I dreampt it...) that it was especially effective for strengthening

> capilaries & blood vessels,



you know about its use for haemorrhoids? (just checking:)

namh



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Thu Mar 27 16:22:48 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Vinca

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:22:48 -0500



> > Anybody use periwinkle (vinca)



>you know about its use for haemorrhoids? (just checking:)

>namh



Yup... first time I used it was for that; made a blend of Periwinkle, 

Yarrow, Plantain, Oak & Stone Root tinctures diluted in witch hazel extract, 

which the client used to dampen a cotton ball and "tuck in there".  Report 

came back that it worked, stayed in place too, but he had to go out and buy 

new underwear, all of it had an oddly colored green/brown stain he found 

somewhat embarrasing...



From keithhubb@yahoo.com Fri Mar 21 17:49:58 2003

To: Herb email list <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Hi, Folks

From: keith hubbard <keithhubb@yahoo.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:49:58 -0800 (PST)



I have a question. Does anyone know where I might get

a copy of questions for The advanced trustise  of

herbology by Edward Shook?  Does such a thing exist? I

know that there are questions for his earlier book

(Elementary trustise of herbology).



Thanks for any  help, 

Peace,

Keith Hubbard C.H.



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Sat Mar 22 05:04:57 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Hi, Folks

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 22:04:57 EST



In a message dated 3/21/2003 10:50:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

keithhubb@yahoo.com writes:



> I have a question. Does anyone know where I might get

> a copy of questions for The advanced trustise  of

> herbology by Edward Shook?  Does such a thing exist? I

> know that there are questions for his earlier book

> (Elementary trustise of herbology).

> 

> Thanks for any  help, 

> Peace,

> Keith Hubbard C.H.

> 

> 



Hi Keith~



This text is used by Trinity College in many of their graduate courses.  

There are no questions in it though.  It is a huge pile of paper, with no 

table of contents (I did my own).  You'd probably have to buy it through 

Trinity.  It's well worth it though.  It reads like a chemistry text of 

herbs.



810 S. Buffalo St.

Warsaw, IN  46580

800-428-0408

www.Trinityschool.org



Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From Elfreem@aol.com Fri Mar 21 19:23:39 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Rescue Remedy drops

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 12:23:39 EST



Where is the hospice located and what is its name and phone number? 

I'd like to contact the staff there for more information on there use of 

aromatherapy and other altMed modalities.



A recent study described the use of Lemon Balm as aromatherapy

for cases of delirium with good results. Actually, though, a lotion

was applied so I'm not sure it was purely aromatherapy at work.

At any rate, I'd like to know what health centers are doing more

directly ...and learn more about their results.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh

Member, Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists



In a message dated 3/21/2003 11:03:59 AM Central Standard Time, 

herb-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes:



It is interesting that the Hospice nurse in charge of my mother's "death

with dignity" allowed the Rescue Remedy drops as part of her program .

Peaceful was the operative word.

Marcia



From darcyblue@hotmail.com Sat Mar 22 01:25:38 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] herbs for low testosterone in women

From: "Darcey Blue" <darcyblue@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 16:25:38 -0700



I'm doing some research on herbal support for a woman friend who has been 

diagnosed with low testosterone levels.  Apparently this is affecting her 

libido, and is quite upset about it.   i'm wondering what the professionals 

and those more knowledgable than me think about this?

SHe has been on hormonal birth control for over 10 years, and we suspect 

that her body will "rebalance itself, now that she has gone off the 

hormones, in a few months.  but in the meantimei'd like to offer her some 

options to support this rebalancing,and helping to restore her natural sex 

drive.  i'm interested to hear what you have to say. I appreciate it.

Darcey blue



We know she lives. She is the voice of the newborn and the Ancestor, the 

gaze of the last white tiger and flower that breaks through the road. She is 

the red thread of life in all of us; she is tomorrow and we cry for 

her:Mother, free us.

~~Rose Flint

http://www.angelfire.com/az3/bluewindsong



From dan@awherbals.com Sun Mar 23 21:17:27 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herbs for low testosterone in women

From: Dan <dan@awherbals.com>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:17:27 -0800



Thats a very complex issue that is more then just testosterone.. If she is 

a slight built catabolic type i usually use MACA and Smilax to push her to 

a more anabolic state. Also give her a tonic based on her organ system 

weaknesses. Other then that we'd have to know pretty much her whole case to 

specifically suggest a theraputic approach.



Dan McDonley



On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 16:25:38 -0700, Darcey Blue <darcyblue@hotmail.com> 

wrote:



> I'm doing some research on herbal support for a woman friend who has been 

> diagnosed with low testosterone levels.  Apparently this is affecting her 

> libido, and is quite upset about it.   i'm wondering what the 

> professionals and those more knowledgable than me think about this?

> SHe has been on hormonal birth control for over 10 years, and we suspect 

> that her body will "rebalance itself, now that she has gone off the 

> hormones, in a few months.  but in the meantimei'd like to offer her some 

> options to support this rebalancing,and helping to restore her natural 

> sex drive.  i'm interested to hear what you have to say. I appreciate it.

> Darcey blue



From Herbgrow30@aol.com Sat Mar 22 04:59:34 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Lyme 

From: Herbgrow30@aol.com

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 21:59:34 EST



In a message dated 3/21/2003 7:54:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

herbgatherer@hotmail.com writes:



> These sound like newly acquired cases - have you treated any long standing

> cases?

I ADD:  Yes they were newer cases.  No I've not come up on older cases, as 

most have been treated around here.



> Why are you using cilantro?

I ADD:  Cilantro is a heavy metal chelator (meaning it attaches to the metals 

and draw them out of the body), so we also use it for heavy toxins.



> I am working with a neighbor who has had Lyme for several years.  She has

> had resorted to intravenous antibiotics four times and is currently on it.

> She feels like the antibiotics are slowly helping.  I've talked with her

> throughout the term of the disease, but she hasn't been willing to accept

> that she should be consistent in her therapy and not flit from one doctor 

> or

> alternative therapy to another seaking some quick relief.  I think she is

> finally there and am hoping to seriously work with her now.

I ADD:  This is awful.  I hope she can seriously commit to consistent 

treatment now.



> Over the years of listening to her symptoms - and after a bout with Lyme

> myself last year - I feel that the damage is in the nervous system rather

> than the ever changing areas of the body that symptoms are felt.

I ADD:  We teach every body is different, so everyone will react differently. 

 No doubt it affects the nervous system badly.



> We are working with Avena sativa and Astragalus while she is on the

> antibiotics - to support the nervous and immune systems.  Diet is fairly

> good and exercise including walking and stress relieving movement are

> consistent.

I ADD:  Ok, but do not do any cleansing while she is on antibiotics.  Many 

cleanses can attach to the meds and draw them out.  



> I would love to hear of others experience working with deep seated Lyme.  Or

> opinions on my idea of it mainly centering in the nervous system.

> Pamela

> 

>   Mary L. Conley, ND

> MS Natural Health, Herbalist

> The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From kchisholm@ca.inter.net Sat Mar 22 05:29:39 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Lyme 

From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm@ca.inter.net>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:29:39 -0400



Dear Mary



>

> > Why are you using cilantro?

> I ADD:  Cilantro is a heavy metal chelator (meaning it attaches to the

metals

> and draw them out of the body), so we also use it for heavy toxins.

>

Could you please explain the connection between "heavy metals", "heavy

toxins" and Lyme Disease.



Thanks.



Kevin



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Sun Mar 23 17:24:31 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Lyme

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:24:31 -0500



>I am working with a neighbor who has had Lyme for several years.  She has

>had resorted to intravenous antibiotics four times and is currently on it.

>She feels like the antibiotics are slowly helping.



Small doses (3 drops/3 times a day) of Teasel root tincture can be curative 

for Lyme.  Read about it in Matt Wood's Book of Herbal Wisdom (this is, I 

believe, the only source for written info on this).  One of my students had 

lyme twice.  The first time he went convential antibiotic route, and did 

fairly.  Three years later he was bitten again and got really bad... he used 

teasel and seems to have recovered fully.  Jeans Greens carries Teasel 

tincture.



>she hasn't been willing to accept

>that she should be consistent in her therapy



This, of course, is often what decides whether treatment will work or not.  

Impress on her that it can work if she sticks with it, but likely will not 

if she doesn't, then leave it up to her.  Being well is a personal 

responsibilty.



From mterry@snet.net Sun Mar 23 17:59:45 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Lyme

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 07:59:45 -0800 (PST)



--- jim mcdonald <multiflorum@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 

> Small doses (3 drops/3 times a day) of Teasel root

> tincture can be curative 

> for Lyme.  Read about it in Matt Wood's Book of

> Herbal Wisdom>  

>Three years later he was bitten again and

> got really bad... he used 

> teasel and seems to have recovered fully.



I'm uncomfortable with this...as I've stated before, I

live about a 20 minute drive from Lyme, CT, and Lyme

disease is epidemic around here.  I have seem people

have terrible chronic problems from Lyme, when they

have supposedly "recovered fully".  Of course I know

the antibiotics are not foolproof.  But I would be

reluctant to just go and get myself some teasel

tincture if I found the circular rash.



I've had it, by the way.



May



=====

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From herbgatherer@hotmail.com Sun Mar 23 20:54:20 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Lyme

From: "Pamela Quayle" <herbgatherer@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:54:20 -0500



Small doses (3 drops/3 times a day) of Teasel root tincture can be curative 

for Lyme.  .



This is one of the things that we tried about three years ago - but the committment wasn't there at that time.  I am considering it for after the antibiotics - I'm hoping she is ready to take that personal responsibility now.



Matt mentions in his book the importance of using brandy - because of the energetic level, I believe.  I have teasel tincture I made from roots from the garden but it is made with grain alcohol which has been my preference because of the ability to vary percentage.  Normally I would dismiss the importance of the difference, but his work is not what I consider "the norm".  It seems from your postings, Jim, that you have some experience with his work and techniques.  What do you think?  



Pamela



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 18:11:08 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Lyme

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:11:08 -0500



> > Small doses (3 drops/3 times a day) of Teasel root

> > tincture can be curative

> > for Lyme...  > Three years later he was bitten again and

> > got really bad... he used

> > teasel and seems to have recovered fully.

>

>I'm uncomfortable with this...as I've stated before, I

>live about a 20 minute drive from Lyme, CT, and Lyme

>disease is epidemic around here.  I have seem people

>have terrible chronic problems from Lyme, when they

>have supposedly "recovered fully".  Of course I know

>the antibiotics are not foolproof.  But I would be

>reluctant to just go and get myself some teasel

>tincture if I found the circular rash.

>

>I've had it, by the way.



I'd certainly never tell anyone not to go for "conventional treatment".  I'd 

just tell them I know someone first hand who's used both treatments, and who 

using Teasel worked for, and several years later he's still doing well.  

They can make their own descison from there.  I've always felt that letting 

people decide for themselves where to draw the line between conventional nad 

herbal therapy is best, and that telling people they shouldn't have this or 

that conventional therapy is generally a bad idea.  I just offer the info, 

and let them decide... its their responsibilty to make descions concerning 

their health, not mine.



But I'd use teasel.



From sc62@charter.net Sat Mar 22 05:50:43 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Slippery Elm Poultice

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 22:50:43 -0500



I found a poultice formula  for slippery elm bark, plantain, goldenseal

rt. comfrey rt. and cayenne powder, that is said to cause bone to regrow and

tissue to

 regenerate; draw out poisons, and reduce inflammation.



My question is, can it be used _orally_ for a gum/periodontal infection?

I need something that will draw out infection, that I could leave on

overnight.



Many thanks,



Sandra



From kchisholm@ca.inter.net Sat Mar 22 05:57:20 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Slippery Elm Poultice

From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm@ca.inter.net>

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:57:20 -0400



Dear Sandra

>

> My question is, can it be used _orally_ for a gum/periodontal infection?

> I need something that will draw out infection, that I could leave on

> overnight.

>

What about a poultice containing Gold Thread? It is recommended for mouth

sores, cankers, etc.



Kevin



From HerbsAcadiana@aol.com Sat Mar 22 13:23:36 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Slippery Elm Poultice

From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 06:23:36 EST



In a message dated 3/21/2003 9:51:07 PM Central Standard Time, 

sc62@charter.net writes:



> I found a poultice formula  for slippery elm bark, plantain, goldenseal

> rt. comfrey rt. and cayenne powder, that is said to cause bone to regrow 

> and

> tissue to

> regenerate; draw out poisons, and reduce inflammation.

> 

> My question is, can it be used _orally_ for a gum/periodontal infection?

> I need something that will draw out infection, that I could leave on

> overnight.

> 

> Many thanks,

> 

> Sandra



What are you dealing with?  Just how extensive is the periodontal disease? 

Does it involve the tooth socket and/or jaw bone?  Is there gum separation, 

fever, mitral valve prolapse?



I would say it may be effective in combination with other treatments.  Watch 

the cayenne since it may make it intolerable orally.



It would also be imperative to make sure the infection does not enter the 

blood stream and become systemic.  Such infections can lodge in a weak valve 

of the heart causing damage.  There is also the risk of the infection 

spreading into the jaw bone.



I'm guessing a dentist has already been seen? I wouldn't use it as a 

substitute for professional dental care that would determine how extensive 

the socket/bone involvement is, or long-term.



Henrietta (Traiteusse)



From sc62@charter.net Sun Mar 23 17:05:06 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Slippery Elm Poultice

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:05:06 -0500



> From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com



> What are you dealing with?  Just how extensive is the periodontal disease?

> Does it involve the tooth socket and/or jaw bone?  Is there gum

separation,

> fever, mitral valve prolapse?

> I'm guessing a dentist has already been seen? I wouldn't use it as a

> substitute for professional dental care that would determine how extensive

> the socket/bone involvement is, or long-term.



I have seen the dentist, and after full set of x-rays, lengthy examination,

and even when I told him that I knew there was infection there due to the

pain I had been experiencing for some time, in all those areas you

mentioned, he said the x-rays showed no infection, (I've learned since then

that sometimes infection doesn't show on an x-ray for a long time), and

proceeded to do fillings on three teeth, the one in question being one of

them. After that, the pain escalated, and front tooth and upper and lower

gum area and jaw became extremely painful.

 I had several discussions through email with him about it, and he suggested

root canal.Everything I asked him, he said 'I don't know'.He just encouraged

root canal, which he himself does.He's a holistic dentist, and very

qualified. I don't want to do that, 'just in case', so I began earnestly

trying everything I could to help myself. I have eliminated most of the

pain, but I feel that I am just 'controlling' it.

I need to get the infection out of there, and just swabbing it and taking

herbs orally doesn't seem to be enough.

Even if they did a root canal, I don't know how that would get rid of

infection in the bone anyway. Sometimes, from what I've read, it gets worse.

It is a front tooth or I would just get an extraction.

Has anyone ever tried an oral poultice? I read that this slippery elm dries

so hard that it's actually hard to get it off.



Many thanks,



Sandra



From HerbsAcadiana@aol.com Sun Mar 23 18:25:06 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Slippery Elm Poultice

From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:25:06 EST



In a message dated 3/23/2003 9:05:24 AM Central Standard Time, 

sc62@charter.net writes:



> (Snipped) Even if they did a root canal, I don't know how that would get rid 

> of

> infection in the bone anyway. Sometimes, from what I've read, it gets 

> worse.

> It is a front tooth or I would just get an extraction.

> Has anyone ever tried an oral poultice? I read that this slippery elm dries

> so hard that it's actually hard to get it off.

> Many thanks,

> Sandra



 You state no infection was found by your dentist even with xray but you feel 

there > is   an infection based on the fact that you are feeling pain.  Such 

> pain may have many    causes including sinus infection (is it top or bottom 

> tooth?), blocked salivary glands, pressure from adjacent teeth, etc.  If 

> the pain is constant AND infection is truly present it usually means the 

> pulp of the tooth is involved and root canal may be the only answer if you 

> don't want extraction.  It will remove the pulp.

> 

> Is the tooth sensitive to percussion?  Tap it with a tongue depressor or 

> something similar and see if the pain intensifies.  Do cold applications 

> relieve it?

> 

> I have often used oral poultices and treatments for dental problems.  Some 

are simple like using a whiskey (I use Jack Daniel's), soaked pad to draw an 

abscess while a wisdom tooth is coming in and inflaming the gum.



I'd go for a second opinion.  I have a tendency to trust a client's gut 

instinct that something is wrong and would want to pursue the origin of the 

pain.



Henrietta



From HerbsAcadiana@aol.com Sun Mar 23 18:32:14 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Slippery Elm Poultice

From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:32:14 EST



In a message dated 3/23/2003 10:25:40 AM Central Standard Time, 

HerbsAcadiana@aol.com writes:



> > (Snipped) Has anyone ever tried an oral poultice? I read that this 

> slippery elm dries

> >so hard that it's actually hard to get it off.

> 



Sorry my last post put the quote marks in the wrong places.  Hope you made 

sense of it.



I mix Slippery Elm with some olive oil to make it more compact and pliable.  

Then I use one of those mats used to make sushi to roll it.  However, you 

could also put it into a teabag to keep it together.  Particularly if you 

were meaning to leave it in overnight so you wouldn't be eating pieces of it 

while sleeping.



Henrietta



From carlton47@earthlink.net Sun Mar 23 19:02:43 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Re: Slippery Elm Poultice

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:02:43 -0700



Sandra,



You may be experiencing nerve inflammation and associated tissue redness

and pain rather than an infection.  Try making a decoction of myrrh (about

a 1 inch diameter lump in your hand) in water (2 cups)....simmered until

1/2 cup water remains)  Pour the strained decoction into 1 cup sesame oil

simmer over low heat until the water has evaporated, cool it, and rinse

your mouth with  a mouthful it about 3 times a day....no don't swallow....



Also try taking three days worth of turmeric and barberry root caps ("00")

(4:1 turmeric root to barberry root) 3 times a day to reduce inflammation

and inflammatory by-products from your system.



Gotu Kola three times a day in caps helps with cooling "hot" nerves. 

Ashwagandha BID will help in nerve pain and rebuilding nerve function

correctly.  Start using sesame oil alone three times a day to nourish and

strengthen gums as a mouthwash.  Also, if you have access to it and have no

liver problems....chew on a couple small pieces of Kava Kava to relieve

acute pain....it numbs your mouth anyway, but also is a pain reducer...keep

the pieces in your mouth for about 10 minutes....no need to swallow or chew

hard.



Just a few ideas that may help whether there's infection or not.



Hope it's better soon.



Aliceann



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 18:00:11 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] calamus

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:00:11 -0500



>I saw Calamus root in a book on culinary herbs and spices, and it 

>interested me,

>having seen this herb in medicinal herb references.  Calamus (Acorus 

>calamus,

>family Araceae) is also known as Sweet Flag.  I am always looking for 

>things to

>improve my appetite, since one major factor contributing to asthma problems 

>at

>night is feeling full prematurely and thereby not eating enough.  It's not 

>just

>the stomach but rather, all the way between throat and stomach, where I can 

>feel

>tight and possibly nauseated.



Chewing on Calamus root improves appetite, strengthens digestion, normalizes 

acid levels (increases low acid levels, decreases excess acid levels), and 

helps to relieve anxiety.  I've not used it for asthma at all, but if its 

aggravated by anxiety it probably wouldn't hurt.  I could go on for hours 

(lines) about it, but if you look in past archives of the mailing list, you 

can find most of the relevent info I've written there.



But chew the root... avoid teas, tinctures & the like.  Chewing the root is 

the way to go with this herb.  There are many varieties of Calamus that are 

all sold as the same species.  I go by the smell.  The more bitter roots are 

(for me) preferable to the more aromatic.  The Calamus should smell light & 

sweet, not heavy & oily (though the heavy, oily kind would be better for gas 

pains).  The root I've been using lately, and the best that I've found, 

comes whole from South Dakota, and is gathered near the Pine Ridge 

reservation.  I get it through a friend, and as far as I know, its not 

available through the mail.



From darcyblue@hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 18:01:51 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Tobacco

From: "Darcey Blue" <darcyblue@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 09:01:51 -0700



Jim

i think you have something there. Thank you for the new take on addiction. 

Perhaps it isn't so 'new" but rather overlooked in many cases, whether it be 

tobacco, caffeine or any other substance. I think what you are saying is an 

important part of the many facets of addiction to tobacco and otherwise, 

physiological and physcological.



thanks

darcey



From Elfreem@aol.com Mon Mar 24 21:01:40 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Lyme disease

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:01:40 EST



Just to clarify ...I'd go just a bit further when it comes to letting the 

patient decide on whether to use conventional or an herbal therapy. 

A single dose of 200mg doxycycline is curative in the vast majority 

of cases in which an individual is bitten by a tick that is at least 

partially engorged with blood in an area where Lyme disease is 

common ...whereas after several months even combination antibiotic 

therapy has limited results. So then, if you're talking about therapy 

within 3 days, doxycycline is absolutely the first choice for anyone 

who has been bitten by a tick where there is a risk for Lyme disease. 

The combination of doxycycline and an herb, of course, can be 

suggested. If we're talking 30 days later or so, doxycycline and

even the combination of doxycycline with another antibiotic has limited 

usefulness; therefore, herbal therapy, and perhaps in combination, 

can be strongly recommended. Yes ...the choice of therapy should

always be the patients; however, herbalists who desire to maintain

a more professional practice must guide the patient toward the

best option ..and in the case of Lyme disease there is a definite

distinction based on the length of time from bite to presentation.

Perhaps, we're saying the same thing but I thought the issues

should be further clarified.



Regards,



Elliot Freeman RPh

Member, Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists





In a message dated 3/24/2003 11:02:16 AM Central Standard Time, 

herb-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes:



>>Small doses (3 drops/3 times a day) of Teasel root

>>tincture can be curative

>>for Lyme...  >Three years later he was bitten again and

>>got really bad... he used

>>teasel and seems to have recovered fully.

>

>I'm uncomfortable with this...as I've stated before, I

>live about a 20 minute drive from Lyme, CT, and Lyme

>disease is epidemic around here.  I have seem people

>have terrible chronic problems from Lyme, when they

>have supposedly "recovered fully".  Of course I know

>the antibiotics are not foolproof.  But I would be

>reluctant to just go and get myself some teasel

>tincture if I found the circular rash.

>

>I've had it, by the way.



I'd certainly never tell anyone not to go for "conventional treatment".  I'd 

just tell them I know someone first hand who's used both treatments, and who 

using Teasel worked for, and several years later he's still doing well.  

They can make their own descison from there.  I've always felt that letting 

people decide for themselves where to draw the line between conventional and 

herbal therapy is best, and that telling people they shouldn't have this or 

that conventional therapy is generally a bad idea.  I just offer the info, 

and let them decide... its their responsibilty to make descions concerning 

their health, not mine.



But I'd use teasel.



From miriam_k@netvision.net.il Mon Mar 24 22:44:03 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Was calamus, now appetite

From: miriam_k <miriam_k@netvision.net.il>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:44:03 +0200



I've found that sow thistle is a wonderful stimulator of appetite. Even my

budgies show increased appetite when I put a few stalks in their cages. I

cook it in soup, adding it only the last 15 minutes of cooking, when one of

the family is getting over a bout of illness and needs a little building up.

It's a pleasure to watch their eyes brighten at the sight of food where

before the reaction might have been, "I don't feel like eating, take it

away!"



Miriam



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 23:01:05 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Was calamus, now appetite

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:01:05 -0500



>I've found that sow thistle is a wonderful stimulator of appetite. Even my

>budgies show increased appetite when I put a few stalks in their cages. I

>cook it in soup, adding it only the last 15 minutes of cooking, when one of

>the family is getting over a bout of illness and needs a little building 

>up.

>It's a pleasure to watch their eyes brighten at the sight of food where

>before the reaction might have been, "I don't feel like eating, take it

>away!"



wow, really cool... Do you think that effect is attrributable to the 

bitterness (bitterness stimulates gastric secretions stimulates appetite), 

or something else?  I haven't used sow thistle, but it grows all over and is 

readily available...my favorite kind of plant to learn about.



I learned something really interesting about it once, but I forgot what, 

though I do know I read it at the MSU Botanical Gardens, and will try to 

find out again and pass it on to you.



From ngbard@juno.com Tue Mar 25 01:40:55 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Was calamus, now appetite

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:40:55 -0500



Do you have a picture and/or availability suggestions on sow thistle?

Marcia



From phosphor@hotkey.net.au Mon Mar 24 23:51:49 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Was calamus, now sow thistle

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor@hotkey.net.au>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 07:51:49 +1000



Miriam:

<I've found that sow thistle is a wonderful stimulator of appetite.



Miriam, did you find any kind of tonic effect from it as well [increase in

energy/vitality etc] ?



Andrew



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 05:13:03 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Was calamus, now sow thistle

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:13:03 -0500



Ah! remebered what that little plaque (plack?) at the botanical garden said 

about Sow Thistle "used to treat Opium addiction" (oh, the irony...).  Shame 

they don't include references, eh?



From sc62@charter.net Tue Mar 25 02:39:44 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Herb Digest, Vol 1, Issue 15

From: "Sandra" <sc62@charter.net>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 19:39:44 -0500



>  You state no infection was found by your dentist even with x-ray but you

feel

> there > is   an infection based on the fact that you are feeling pain.



Pain coupled with the fact that [something] is eroding the enamel on my

teeth. The problem tooth was the first to show this, but now it has [spread]

to the next three teeth, so that uppermost part of these teeth are just

dentin. I

think it would have to be infection, strep or otherwise to cause this.

I made up a toothpowder with several herbs, black walnut being one of them

because it's been said to make enamel regrow, swabbing with tooth and gum

formula and propolis. Pain is much better, but tooth feels loose and kind of

'foreign'.



(is it top or

bottom tooth?),

Top left canine.



Is the tooth sensitive to percussion?  Tap it with a tongue depressor or

> > something similar and see if the pain intensifies.  Do cold applications

> > relieve it?



Tapping causes only mild sensitivity. I've held ice cubes on it to test, and

not much feeling. But it's the same with some of the others too, so that was

confusing.



I'm trying all the suggestions, and thank everyone for your help.



Much Appreciation,

Sandra



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Tue Mar 25 04:19:04 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Herb Digest, Vol 1, Issue 15

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:19:04 EST



In a message dated 3/24/03 6:40:35 PM, sc62@charter.net writes:



<< >  You state no infection was found by your dentist even with x-ray but you



feel



> there > is   an infection based on the fact that you are feeling pain.



 >>



nursing school and premed never included a whole lot on teeth --- much to my 

chagrin.

and books on dentistry are not exactly my favorite reading.  however, i sure 

would like a definitive source of 'if this is doing this, this must be what 

it is' kind of reading related to mouth/teeth.  even though this request 

doesn't - specifically - include herbs; with that knowledge, one could put 

herbs to a specific complaint.

any ideas??

TIA    

(incidentally, i find it very interesting of late, when i've taken my kidlets 

in for dental work - all the permission forms state that "dentistry is not an 

exact science"......



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Tue Mar 25 05:16:16 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] herb suppliers

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:16:16 EST



I know this question has been asked ad nauseum before about favorite and 

trustworthy herbal suppliers.  I needed to ask again, though.  Someone 

mentioned SF Herbs; I tried them by placing a substantial order (a combined 

order of culinary and medicinal herbs) and was very disappointed with the 

medicinal herbs.  There were several "things" in the bags of herbs that - 

wasn't - the herb I ordered.  The culinary order was fine, though.  

No one there could answer the question as to the age of the herbs, either.  

I know someone mentioned Penn herbs; I've never heard of them.  

Has anyone had any experience with Blessed herbs?

thanks.



From hetta@spamcop.net Tue Mar 25 09:16:46 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 09:16:46 +0200



Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:



> Has anyone had any experience with Blessed herbs?



Impeccable.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From bek@timelessremedies.com Tue Mar 25 13:58:15 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: Elizabeth Scotten Finn <bek@timelessremedies.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 06:58:15 -0500



I second that. The quality excellent. Some of the prices tend to be a 

bit higher than the other suppliers, but i have found that it's worth 

it.



-bek



On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 02:16  AM, Henriette Kress wrote:



> Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:

>

>> Has anyone had any experience with Blessed herbs?

>

> Impeccable.

>

> Henriette

~~

Elizabeth Finn

http://www.timelessremedies.com



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Tue Mar 25 15:00:18 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:00:18 -0500



> Has anyone had any experience with Blessed herbs?

> thanks.

>

I have ordered them and their quality is good. I was  bit disappointed to

see they recently came out with a very high priced "cleansing kit"- but

thats another subject...



Even though I now live on the East coast I still think Pacific Botanicals

has the best consistent quality and continue to order from them.



There are also some great little farms doing medicinal herbs in New England-

Cate Farm... www.catefarm.com

and Heartsong Farm  www.herbsandapples.com

Its great to support them! They are both organic-



Michelle



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 16:40:05 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 09:40:05 -0500



My experince has been that Mountain Rose Herbs seems to have nicer herbs 

than stuff I've gotten from Blessed.  They were able to tell me the date of 

harvest and where it came from, too.  If you sign up for the reseelers 

program (and you don't need to have a tax ID # for that) you get 30% off an 

order... I think the minimum was $250.  That's a pretty good way to get 

expensive herbs & stuff like Propolis.



Pacific Botanicals is also good, because they can tell you when this or that 

was harvested.



What I've been doing the last few years, though, is ordering direct from 

growers & wildcrafters, which is, I think, the best way to support 

individual plant people, and get ~fresh~ roots every fall (for the record, 

fresh goldenseal & Black Cohosh tinctures are SO much nicer than dried).  

Here are some of my favorites:



Zack Woods Herb Farm in Vermont

Melanie & Jeff  (802) 888-7278

~has organic Black Cohosh & other UpS at risk herbs



Naturespirit Herbs & Sea Vegetables in Washington

James & Kari  (541) 846-7995

~all of your Pacific northwest fair



Mimbres Botanicals in SW New Mexico

Bess & Able  (505) 536-2299

~They've got all the stuff you read about in Michael Moore's Canyon West, & 

more



Algonquin Tea Company in Canada

Steven  (800) 292-6671

~Lots of barks & roots, unusual stuff like Alder, Sweet Fern, Aster Roots



Aspen Hill Farm in Northern Michigan

Steve Edwards (231)582-6790

~Organic American Ginseng, Goldenseal, blue & Black Cohosh



Nuka Hiva Trading Company in Hawaii

John (?)

Several varieties of Organic Kava



I'd love to find someone in the Southeast... anyone?



From Jeninct2@aol.com Tue Mar 25 22:01:20 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: Jeninct2@aol.com

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:01:20 EST



I get the bulk of my herbs from Useful Weeds in Manchester CT. Great little 

shop, with very informed owners and staff...they ship too!



I am not affiliated with them...just a very satisfied customer. :)



Jen in CT



From mterry@snet.net Wed Mar 26 00:24:35 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:24:35 -0800 (PST)



--- Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:

>Someone 

> mentioned SF Herbs; I tried them by placing a

> substantial order (a combined 

> order of culinary and medicinal herbs) and was very

> disappointed with the 

> medicinal herbs.  There were several "things" in the

> bags of herbs that - 

> wasn't - the herb I ordered.  The culinary order was

> fine, though.  

> No one there could answer the question as to the age

> of the herbs, either.  



Their herbs are so ridiculously cheap that I've never

had the courage to order from them.  I've always

pictured funny doings down at the dock...



May



=====

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de Wed Mar 26 02:42:07 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 01:42:07 +0100



> Their herbs are so ridiculously cheap that I've never

> had the courage to order from them.  I've always

> pictured funny doings down at the dock...

-------------

I get some bulk for the horses via SF  from time to time, but have to agree

on the assessment.  I suspect third world growers using unmentionable

chemicals.....



Sorcy



From neveshalom@yahoo.com Wed Mar 26 04:55:32 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: "Deborah J. Greenhill" <neveshalom@yahoo.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:55:32 -0800 (PST)



Blessings,

I ordered from SF Herb a few times.  Each time the quality was questionable.  One example: one of the herbs( I think it was the oatstraw) had a significant amount of sheep/horse hair in it.  Could someone have swept the stuff off a barnyard floor and sold it to them?  Who knows?!!

Deborah

 May Terry <mterry@snet.net> wrote:--- Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:

>Someone 

> mentioned SF Herbs; I tried them by placing a

> substantial order (a combined 

> order of culinary and medicinal herbs) and was very

> disappointed with the 

> medicinal herbs. There were several "things" in the

> bags of herbs that - 

> wasn't - the herb I ordered



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 26 17:38:53 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] herb suppliers

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:38:53 -0500



>I ordered from SF Herb a few times.  Each time the quality was 

>questionable.  One example: one of the herbs( I think it was the oatstraw) 

>had a significant amount of sheep/horse hair in it.  Could someone have 

>swept the stuff off a barnyard floor and sold it to them?  Who knows?!!

>

>  I get some bulk for the horses via SF  from time to time, but have to 

>agree

>on the assessment.  I suspect third world growers using unmentionable

chemicals.....



All the more reason to buy dirct from growers/wildcrafters.  Its definitely 

more work, and the price may be higher, but its so gratifying to know that 

this person dug up this root on Monday and you got it on Wednesday, or that 

the Skullcap you ordered was shipped as soon as it was dry (as opposed to 

stuff that looks like 3 year old lawn clippings left out in the sun).  Or 

that your Yerba Mansa wasn't collected from a drainage ditch filled with 

agricultural run-off, or that their isn't a shrinking patch of Osha on a 

mountain somewhere because the person whose gathering it gets paid by the 

pound.  Most distributers can't even tell you where their herbs come from, 

because they get them through numerous sources and they all get mixed in 

together in a big bag somewhere.



Best of all, you get to know the people you deal with, and your money helps 

support them to continue supplying the best possible herbs.  As close to the 

source as you can get when you can't gather it yourself.



From mwherbs@cox.net Tue Mar 25 06:42:17 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Lyme's

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:42:17 -0700



well Lyme's, Borrelia burgdorferi ,a spirochete and like another 

spirochete syphilis is better treated quickly and simply by 

antibiotics. The longer you have the disease the harder it is to get 

rid of it. Also the greater the chance for permanent damage. These 

critters like to settle in joints and the central nervous system. I 

don't really think that herbal medicine met the task of curing 

syphilis in the past and I don't think that it meets the mark for 

treating lyme's today. In 1926 Professor Von Jauregg of Austria was 

given the Nobel prize for his medical contribution- the treatment of 

paresis(brain infection with syphilis) with malaria. His treatment 

was to infect patients who had paresis with malaria trying to produce 

a high fever, the high fever would kill the syphilis in the brain 

enough that it saved 2/3 of these people's lives and to varying 

degrees their cognitive function, he gave no one person more than 12 

fevers and he didn't treat the malaria until a fever of 106 was 

reached.

I am not recommending that people with chronic lyme's disease get 

malaria but maybe they should not be too quick in treating a fever, 

maybe they should support any fever they do get.



Sharon in Tucson



From herbgatherer@hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 14:29:40 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Lyme's

From: "Pamela Quayle" <herbgatherer@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 07:29:40 -0500



  I am not recommending that people with chronic lyme's disease get 

  malaria but maybe they should not be too quick in treating a fever, 

  maybe they should support any fever they do get.



  Hot baths to raise the body temp is one of the therapies used by David Winston.  He also uses and sells a formula designed (I believe) to go after the spiroketes that is based on eclectic treatment of syphilis.  Arduous, but he says effective.    Or this is what he was teaching about 4 years ago.  



  I stress that this is for chronic Lyme, not newly acquired - there antibiotics are the thing to do.  



  Pamela



From alaena@diamon-naturals.com Tue Mar 25 19:31:52 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] RE: bulk herbs

From: "Alaena Diamon" <alaena@diamon-naturals.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:31:52 -0600



I've ordered from Trinity on a regular basis, and am very happy with the

quality of their herbs... and their prices are competitive.  You do need a

tax number to order from them, and there is free shipping if the order is

over $300.00.  www.trinityherb.com is their website.  I've also ordered from

Planet Herbs, an individual organic/wildcrafter, and her prices are very

reasonable, although no free shipping offered.  Since she works alone, or

with family members, she's not great on the bookkeeping end, and was very

slow to send an invoice (and slow to bill my credit card, too!).  Her

website is www.planetherbs.net/.

Alaena



From miriam_k@netvision.net.il Wed Mar 26 00:04:25 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] RE sow thistle links

From: miriam_k <miriam_k@netvision.net.il>

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:04:25 +0200



OK, guys, I confess... I use sow thistle in a very Yiddishe Mamma way. Once

having read somewhere that it increases appetite, I started using it for

that purpose, and all I can say is that it works (at least for my family).



But I did a little research in order to appear more educated, so here are a

few worthwhile links, followed by Culpepper's comments. Sow thistle is a

real roadside weed, growing in empty lots anywhere, I'd venture to say, that

has a cold winter. I find it in abundance here in Israel,  for example, but

wouldn't look for it in a tropical country.



I would venture that as a bitter herb, it supports the liver and as we know,

any liver lover will be good for digestion (and desire to eat) too.



Miriam

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/weedguid/sowthist.htm

good photos of sow thistle varieties



http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/s/sowthi71.html



The good Mrs. Grieve's take on sow thistle



SOW-THISTLES (Culpepper).

These are generally so well known that they need no Description.



Place.

They grow in our Gardens and manured Grounds, and somtimes by old Walls, the

path sides of Fields and High-waies.



Vertues and Use.

Sow-thistles are cooling and somwhat binding, and are very fit to cool an

hot Stomach, and to ease the gnawing pains thereof; The Herb boyled in Wine

is very helpful to stay the dissolutions of the Stomach: And the Milk that

is taken from the Stalks when they are broken, given in drink, is beneficial

to those that are short Winded and have a wheesing withal: Pliny saith that

it hath caused the Gravel and Stone to be voided by Urine, and that the

eating thereof helpeth a stinking breath: Three spoonfuls of the Juyce

thereof taken in white Wine warmed, and some Oyl put thereto causeth Women

in Travel to have so easie and speedy delivery, that they may be able to

walk presently after: The said Juyce taken in warm drink, helpeth the

Strangury and pains in making water.



[EDGENOTE:] Pains & heat of the Stomach, short wind & wheesing, Gravel &

Stone, stinking Breath, speedy Delivery, Strangury, Milk increased, Deafness

& singing in the Ears, Inflamed Eyes, Wheals, & Blisters, Hemorrhoids, Cleer

the Face.



The Decoction of the Leaves and Stalks, causeth abundance of Milk in Nurses,

and their Children to be well coloured, and is good for those whose Milk

doth curdle in their Breasts. The Juyce boyled or throughly heated with a

little Oyl of Bitter Almonds in the Pill of a Pomegranate, and dropped into

the Ears, is a sure Remedy for Deafness, singings, and all other Diseases in

them. The Herb bruised or the Juyce is profitably applied to all hot

Inflamations in the Eyes, or wheresoever else, and for Wheals, Blisters, or

other the like eruptions of heat in the Skin; as also for the heat and

itching of the Hemorrhoids, and the heat and sharpness of Humors in the

Secret parts of man or Woman: The distilled water of the Herb, is not only

effectual for all the Diseases aforesaid to be taken inwardly with a little

Sugar(which Medicine the daintiest Stomach will not refuse) but outwardly,

by applying Cloathes or Spunges wetted therein: It is wonderful good for

Women to wash their Faces therewith, to cleer the Skin, and give a lustre

thereto.



-----Original Message-----

From: herb-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org

[mailto:herb-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Marcia Grossbard

Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:41 AM

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Was calamus, now appetite



Do you have a picture and/or availability suggestions on sow thistle?

Marcia



From lakshmi@kingcon.com Wed Mar 26 01:24:54 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] RE sow thistle l

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi@kingcon.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:24:54 -0500



Sow Thistle kind of looks like a tall dandelion- I used to have them in my

garden in Humboldt County Ca.. They are great for the garden, too, as they

attract cute little finches and they are "deep diggers" and pull nutrients

from the depths. They are great for the compost pile, too. Just by looking

at them, I would think they are similar to Dandelion in action...I have

eaten them as well.

Michelle



From ngbard@juno.com Sun Mar 30 00:40:35 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] RE sow thistle l

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard@juno.com>

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 17:40:35 -0500



Are sow thistle seeds available, or would they be a plant pest in a New

England suburban neighborhood?

Marcia

---



From macphee@net1plus.com Sun Mar 30 02:14:41 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] RE sow thistle l

From: "Joanie" <macphee@net1plus.com>

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:14:41 -0500



Hi Marcia...

while most anything can be found on the net these days...

and I do not think people are being prosecuted for sending weed seeds quite

yet,

I do not think that many are selling this rather common barnyard weed,

though it will often pop up in composted cow manure bought in these parts.

When you head out on route 2 west this summer, detour on route 2A once you

get past Gardner and stop for ice cream at one of the old dairy stands

adjoining an old cowfield.  I can think of several with sowthistle rimming

the fences, especially out past Orange.   Not to say that you do not have it

growing right where you are, but I am not as familiar with that part of the

world...



I used to have lots in my garden, but now I use llama poop, and the sow

thistle has faded away.

SO, not so much an  invasive, but a stick out like a sore thumber kind of

thing.  Joanie



> Are sow thistle seeds available, or would they be a plant pest in a New

> England suburban neighborhood?

> Marcia



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 17:38:29 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] RE sow thistle l

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:38:29 -0500



>Are sow thistle seeds available, or would they be a plant pest in a New

>England suburban neighborhood?

>Marcia



Buying Sow Thistle seeds would be like buying Dandelions or Plantain 

seeds... unnecessary.  Learn what the plant lokks like (imaging stalked 

Dandelion, or Chickory with dandelion flowers), and by midsummer/late summer 

you'll see its growing all over and decide you might no need to grow any 

after all.  But if so, you'll have access to thousands of seeds.



From mwherbs@cox.net Wed Mar 26 05:06:07 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Reccuring fever

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:06:07 -0700



where do you live?



From tbone@netease.net Wed Mar 26 06:13:17 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Reccuring fever

From: "Mr. & Mrs. George Duncan" <tbone@netease.net>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:13:17 -0600



Middle Tennessee above the Alabama and Mississippi line.



Sharon Hodges-Rust wrote:

> 

> where do you live?



From mt_turtle@email.com Thu Mar 27 02:00:24 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Reccuring fever

From: "K B" <mt_turtle@email.com>

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:00:24 +0900



Fever is always down in the morning and up in the evening especially in children.  Even when a fever is high it will be higher in the afternoon to evening.  



I recommend seeing a health professional to rule out strep... A low grade strep infection can drag on and on and can cause permanent damage if not knocked out.  103 for longer than 3 days indicates need for firm action.



If strep is ruled out consider allergies, virus...  Allergies can cause a child to run a fever but is usually not this high.  Use tonic herbs to build up resistance.

KB



From tbone@netease.net Wed Mar 26 05:12:50 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: "Mr. & Mrs. George Duncan" <tbone@netease.net>

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:12:50 -0600



I need some advice for my youngest daughter who will be 4

soon.  She has always been a healthy child, but for the last

2 1/2 weeks.  It started one night with a fever of 103-104 F

and it lasted for three days.  On the fourth day her

temperature was normal but she was still pale and in need of

a nap in the afternoon.  Since then she is well in the

daytime and nighttime, but at around 7-8 pm her temperature

goes up to 103 F for an hour or two.  The only symptoms are

more tired than usual in the afternoon/evening, slightly

paler skin tone, not much appetite when the temperature goes

up.  Oh and nose picking and bedwetting, but I don't know if

it's related... 



I have started giving her echinacea, goldenseal, lemon

balm.  I would rather not take her to the clinic, so any

ideas are very welcomed.



Christina



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Wed Mar 26 17:11:08 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:11:08 -0500



>I need some advice for my youngest daughter who will be 4

>soon.  She has always been a healthy child, but for the last

>2 1/2 weeks.  It started one night with a fever of 103-104 F

>and it lasted for three days.  On the fourth day her

>temperature was normal but she was still pale and in need of

>a nap in the afternoon.  Since then she is well in the

>daytime and nighttime, but at around 7-8 pm her temperature

>goes up to 103 F for an hour or two.  The only symptoms are

>more tired than usual in the afternoon/evening, slightly

>paler skin tone, not much appetite when the temperature goes

>up.



Has the fever "broke" yet (has she had the big end of a fever sweat)?  If 

not, it's likely to keep coming back till it does, so the body can eliminate 

through the skin.  A very good all purpose "fever tea" is a blend of Yarrow, 

Elder & Peppermint(or Wild Bergamot), and you could add things like Catnip 

to encourage a nap if she's restless.



Things that come & go like that make me think of Boneset.  This'd be 

positively indicated if there's achy-ness, and/or she has that "I'm cold, 

need to cover up... too hot to be under a blanket, I gotta get this off 

me... oh, I'm cold again..."  Sometimes this is all consecutive, other times 

people may feel okay between "phases".  Unfortunately, Boneset is pretty 

dreadful tasting... getting a tea down would be difficult, I'd use a 

tincture.  Blue Vervain is similar, but also sedative.  It can be added to 

help sleep during fevers. (Fever tea with Boneset tincure during the day, 

Camomile or Catnip with Blue Vervain at night or for naps).



Soup broth with Astragalus, burdock and shiitake mushrooms in it will 

probably help as well, maybe a bit of Ginger?



I don't see any reason to use Goldenseal.



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Thu Mar 27 05:53:53 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:53:53 EST



My (then 14) year old daughter had something like that last year.  She ran a 

dreadful fever for a whole week ---- and I gave her LOTS of boneset.  Never 

touched her.  She ran the fever throughout the entire day and night with few 

lapses.  It was always around 103.  Usually when someone is febrile only late 

afternoon/evenings, it's - usually - viral. And when they're febrile 

throughout the day with few periods of a normal or near-normal temp., it's - 

usually - bacterial.  We did take her in, ran several tests, and nothing.

She had no other symptoms whatsoever.  We did, at the time, have a 'virus' in 

our city affecting kids the same way.  What it turned out to be, no one knew. 

 After the week, it broke on its own.  I don't mind saying it was a terrible 

week; luckily it didn't affect the rest of the family. Weird.



From tbone@netease.net Fri Mar 28 03:43:43 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: "Mr. & Mrs. George Duncan" <tbone@netease.net>

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:43:43 -0600



Thank you everyone for all the help.  She had a hotter fever

for longer last night, 

and this morning she was fine, as usual.  Now she is

sleeping and her forehead is 

nice and cool.  But last night my 10 month old son had a

fever too.  So, it could

be viral.  



We are goat keepers and drink goat milk and I make cheese

and yogurt.  This year 

we decided to start drinking it raw after reading about how

much better it is.  

But now we are going back to pasteurizing since I just

realized that the fever 

coincided with the first doe freshening (coming in milk).  I

wonder if maybe 

something was passed on to her from the raw milk.



I also had a question about Yarrow.  I made a tincture of

Yarrow some time ago and 

that's what I'm using for my little one.  Is the tincture

comparable to the fresh

herb? 



Christina



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Thu Mar 27 16:15:37 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:15:37 -0500



>My (then 14) year old daughter had something like that last year.  She ran 

>a

>dreadful fever for a whole week ---- and I gave her LOTS of boneset.  Never

>touched her.



Hmm... interesting.  I've always had pretty good luck with Boneset.  

Sometimes if there's still deep aching after starting with it I'll use a 

tiny bit of Black Cohosh and/or Arnica, but the Boneset's always seemed 

specific with that symptom picture.



I can only imagine making a 14 year old take lots of Boneset (yuk!) and then 

having it not really work... hopefully it didn't create an aversion to 

trusting your "potions".



From HerbsAcadiana@aol.com Fri Mar 28 14:26:14 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:26:14 EST



In a message dated 3/28/2003 1:38:17 AM Central Standard Time, 

tbone@netease.net writes:



> (Snipped) We are goat keepers and drink goat milk and I make cheese

> and yogurt.  This year 

> we decided to start drinking it raw after reading about how

> much better it is.  

> But now we are going back to pasteurizing since I just

> realized that the fever 

> coincided with the first doe freshening (coming in milk).  I

> wonder if maybe 

> something was passed on to her from the raw milk.



My Aunt Mildred Corwin caught undulant fever (Brucellosis, Bang's disease), 

from unpasturized goat milk when she was in China.  You might have your 

daughter checked for it.



Henrietta



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Sun Mar 30 02:11:25 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:11:25 EST



In a message dated 3/28/03 6:27:00 AM, HerbsAcadiana@aol.com writes:



<< My Aunt Mildred Corwin caught undulant fever (Brucellosis, Bang's 

disease), 

from unpasturized goat milk when she was in China.  You might have your 

daughter checked for it.



Henrietta >>



The daughter that I wrote of with febrile episodes ---- we had just gotten a 

new batch of raw milk (from a farmer that we had gotten some from previously) 

and I remember wondering if it was this particular batch of milk....no one 

else in the family got sick.  

_if_ it was the milk, wouldn't we all have gotten sick, too?

Ours was cow milk.



From HerbsAcadiana@aol.com Sun Mar 30 17:48:20 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:48:20 EST



In a message dated 3/29/2003 6:12:18 PM Central Standard Time, 

Herbmednurse@aol.com writes:



> The daughter that I wrote of with febrile episodes ---- we had just gotten a 

> 

> new batch of raw milk (from a farmer that we had gotten some from 

> previously) 

> and I remember wondering if it was this particular batch of milk....no one 

> else in the family got sick.  

> _if_ it was the milk, wouldn't we all have gotten sick, too?

> Ours was cow milk.



No, not everyone exposed gets it.  But, it can also be passed directly from 

goats/animals-it's carried in the feces. Killed by pasteurization. Untreated 

it can take up to a year to get rid of it.  My Aunt Mildred got it before 

antibiotics and it left her debilitated for the rest of her life, but did not 

shorten it-she lived to be very old.



Didn't you say you raised goats?  Or was that another poster?  A friend of 

mine here in St. Martinville, LA raised goats and her daughter also had 

undulant fevers of undetermined origin.  She finally outgrew it after a year 

or so.  Makes you think.



I'd also be concerned about TB which can cause that type of fever pattern.  

That's another disease pasteurization was designed to get rid of.  Did the 

milk come from a certified TB-free herd? Has she had skin test for that or an 

xray? Not to mention bladder/kidney infections.  Sure worth a good checkup to 

rule out the obvious.



Henrietta



From tbone@netease.net Sun Mar 30 20:58:18 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: "Mr. & Mrs. George Duncan" <tbone@netease.net>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:58:18 -0600



 > 

> I'd also be concerned about TB which can cause that type of fever pattern.

> That's another disease pasteurization was designed to get rid of.  Did the

> milk come from a certified TB-free herd? Has she had skin test for that or an

> xray? Not to mention bladder/kidney infections.  Sure worth a good checkup to

> rule out the obvious.

> 

> Henrietta



Ugh, it makes me want to ditch the goats now.  Just last

week 3 does kidded and I had to leave the baby (in his

stroller) and little children in the milk stall to take care

of the goats.  The next day the baby had loose stools and a

fever at night.  Thankfully, it didn't come back since.



I have been giving my daughter who has the "evening fever"

lots of lemon balm, yarrow.  I even add some to the green

juice I make.  Is fresh juice of lemon balm as good as an

infusion?  I blend and strain with a vita-mix blender all

kinds of greens and herbs that way we get plenty of vitamins

and minerals.  



She is doing much better since yesterday and her fever

didn't come back.  Her lips are redder, skin tone is normal,

and she stayed up late last night to play.  A definite

improvement.



Christina



From hetta@spamcop.net Sun Mar 30 21:25:44 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:25:44 +0300



Mr. & Mrs. George Duncan wrote:



> Is fresh juice of lemon balm as good as an

> infusion?  I blend and strain with a vita-mix blender all



It's much much better. Only, it takes more herb.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From carlton47@earthlink.net Mon Mar 31 00:11:44 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47@earthlink.net>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 14:11:44 -0700



I'd be cautious of catstrophizing and evilizing raw milk friends.  It is

the giver and sustainer of life.  We milked our goats in an outdoor ped

covered with a tarp on a milking platform.  We never had a case of illness

nor any odor or contamination and out milk was used raw both by humans and

by a show kennel's newborn pups.  I know there are real worries about

brucellosis and TB....testing assesses both of these.  If you or children

develop runs or tummy aches from milk, heat it before use and add a little

cinnamon or ginger and honey...and don't drink too much at a time.  Goats'

milk is easier to digest due to it's smaller fat globules and other

factors.  In any case, if we panic over an imagined association, then we

may risk losing a valued food source.



There also are real concerns about cross contamination of many diseases. 

if your children or you have colds or infections, protect the animals from

your illnesses as much as the other way around.



Blessings,

AA



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Mon Mar 31 01:37:05 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 17:37:05 EST



In a message dated 3/30/03 8:48:50 AM, HerbsAcadiana@aol.com writes:



<< I'd also be concerned about TB which can cause that type of fever pattern. 

 

That's another disease pasteurization was designed to get rid of.  Did the 

milk come from a certified TB-free herd? Has she had skin test for that or an 

xray? Not to mention bladder/kidney infections.  Sure worth a good checkup to 

rule out the obvious. >>



while this was a year ago; she is well now.  but she did come to mind when 

someone else shared a similar experience.  

the farmer has certified cows and a very clean operation.  i even 'sterilize' 

my glass jugs before i go to refill them each time.  

being a nurse, but wanting to stay out of the allopathic fray, i thought of 

every possible thing --- checked her head to toe ..... but i had to take her 

in to make sure; nothing.

i had told the docs (reluctantly) that we had raw milk; because i was 

concerned that maybe something may have been passed.  they said that because 

no one else was ill, that that was unlikely.  <shrug>

i have to second alice's post on milk consumption, though.  - for our family 

- i think the raw is undoubtedly the best way to go.  the farmer that we had 

been getting the milk from stated that a lot of people will get ill if they 

consume too much, too fast.  he tells all his new customers to go very easy 

for the first week or so; even mixing the raw with store-bought for a while 

until your system becomes acclimated to it.

 - always something ---- <sigh>



From HerbsAcadiana@aol.com Mon Mar 31 03:03:41 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:03:41 EST



In a message dated 3/30/2003 4:37:44 PM Central Standard Time, 

Herbmednurse@aol.com writes:



> -(Snipped)  i think the raw is undoubtedly the best way to go.  the farmer 

> that we had 

> been getting the milk from stated that a lot of people will get ill if they 

> 

> consume too much, too fast.  he tells all his new customers to go very easy 

> 

> for the first week or so; even mixing the raw with store-bought for a while 

> 

> until your system becomes acclimated to it.

> - always something ---- <sigh>



I used to drink only unpasteurized milk from a cow of a friend, and used the 

raw butter, too.  Not to mention the yard eggs.  Never heard of taking it 

slowly, but if they aren't used to very rich milk, that could be a problem.  

I think it is much better for the health, but one does have to know what's 

involved and the risks and take precautions.  Would love to have some raw 

goat's milk cheese, unpasteurized right now.  Yes indeedy.



Remember your medical history and the "Milk Fever," from back in the hills 

that used to wipe out whole families?



Henrietta



From dpotocki@erols.com Mon Mar 31 17:29:14 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Reccuring fever

From: Donna Potocki <dpotocki@erols.com>

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:29:14 -0500



Christina said:



> I blend and strain with a vita-mix blender all

> kinds of greens and herbs that way we get plenty of vitamins

> and minerals.

>



Bravp! I love using fresh ingredients. If those ingredients are from

your own garden, it is the only way to know for sure what you are

ingesting! I have read, however, that fiber is important and considering

we may want to keep the greens as whole as possible, are you straining

merely for larger pieces or are you straining out all the pulp? If the

latter is the case, are you losing some of the value of the

greens/herbs?



I remember the controversy years ago over laetrile, apple seeds, apricot

seeds...The typical comment from proponents was that if you eat the

whole apple/apricot, etc. (including the seeds), you won't get poisoned

from the seeds, as your digestive system would tell you that you were

full before you could possibly eat enough seeds to cause you any damage.

If, on the other hand, you ingest a large amount of the seeds alone, you

may indeed have problems. It seems analagous to the argument about

eating the whole herb vs. a large amount of one of its constituents.

Just a thought.



Anyone have any herbal comments on the recent SARS concerns?



Donna



From mwherbs@cox.net Wed Mar 26 14:54:07 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re:  Vinca

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 05:54:07 -0700



On pub-med there are about 2000+ entries when you put vinca in. Here 

are just 3 of them.



  Cancer Chemother Pharmacol 2003 Mar;51(3):227-30

Phase I and pharmacokinetic study of anhydrovinblastine every 3 weeks 

in patients with refractory solid tumors.

Ramnath N, Schwartz GN, Smith P, Bong D, Kanter P, Berdzik J, Creaven PJ.

Department of Medicine, Roswell Park Cancer Institute, Elm and 

Carlton Streets, NY 14263, Buffalo, USA,nithya.ramnath@roswellpark.org



PURPOSE. Anhydrovinblastine (AVLB) is a novel semisynthetic vinca 

alkaloid. We conducted a phase I trial to determine the maximum 

tolerated dose (MTD), dose-limiting toxicities (DLT) and 

pharmacokinetics of AVLB given as a 1-h intravenous infusion once 

every 3 weeks in patients with advanced refractory solid tumors.

PATIENTS AND METHODS. Entered into the study were 24 patients with 

normal bone marrow, hepatic and renal function, and of these 21 were 

evaluable. There were 12 males and 12 females with a median age of 60 

years (range 27-75 years). Diagnoses were non-small-cell lung cancer 

(NSCLC) (11), colorectal cancer (5), soft tissue sarcoma (4), and 

miscellaneous (4). Patients had had a median of three prior 

chemotherapy regimens (range one to six). A total of 51 courses were 

administered at doses of 2.5, 5, 10, 16.5, 21, 25 and 30 mg/m(2) in 

one, three, one, three, six, six and one patient respectively.

RESULTS. Grade 2 infusional hypertension, anemia, and dizziness were 

noted at 16.5 mg/m(2). At 25 mg/m(2), two of six evaluable patients 

had DLT. DLT was grade 4 constipation, neutropenia and grade 3 

nausea/vomiting. At 21 mg/m(2) one of six evaluable patients had DLT 

(grade 3 nausea/vomiting). This dose was the

MTD. Stable disease was noted in one patient with metastatic sarcoma 

to the lungs and in three patients with metastatic NSCLC. The 

pharmacokinetics of AVLB were linear, and well characterized by a 

two-compartment model, with a mean clearance of 26.4 l/h per m(2) and 

median terminal half-life of 18 h. CONCLUSIONS. The recommended phase 

II dose is 21 mg/m(2). A phase II study in NSCLC is being initiated.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

J Antimicrob Chemother 2003 Mar 13; [epub ahead of print]

Effects of the antimitotic natural product dolastatin 10, and related 

peptides, on the human malarial parasite Plasmodium falciparum.

Fennell BJ, Carolan S, Pettit GR, Bell A.

Department of Microbiology, Moyne Institute, Trinity College, Dublin 

2, Ireland.

Microtubule inhibitors from several chemical classes can block the 

growth and development of malarial parasites, reflecting the 

importance of microtubules in various essential parasite functions. 

With the spread of antimalarial drug

resistance, there is an urgent need for new approaches to the 

chemotherapy of this devastating disease. We investigated the effects 

of two naturally occurring marine peptides, dolastatin 10 and 

dolastatin 15, and 10 synthetic dolastatin 10-based compounds 

(auristatins), on cultured malarial parasites of the species most 

lethal to humans,Plasmodium falciparum. Dolastatin 10 was a more 

potent inhibitor of P. falciparum than any other previously described 

microtubule inhibitor, with a median inhibitory concentration (IC50) 

of 10(-10) M. Dolastatin 15 was less active, and compounds of the 

auristatin series had various potencies. Comparison of the 

concentrations required to inhibit P. falciparum and mammalian cell 

proliferation showed that the orders of potency were not the same. 

Dolastatin 10 and auristatin PE caused arrested nuclear division and 

apparent disassembly of mitotic microtubular structures in the 

parasite. The effects of these agents were, superficially at least, 

similar to those of vinblastine but different from those of 

paclitaxel. These studies indicate that compounds binding in the 

'Vinca domain' of tubulin can be highly potent antimalarial agents.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Urol Int 2003;70(1):1-14

Role of chemotherapy in hormone-refractory prostate cancer. Old 

issues, recent advances and new perspectives.

Autorino R, Di Lorenzo G, Damiano R, De Placido S, D'Armiento M.

Department of Urology, Second University, 'Federico II' University, 

Naples, Italy.

Prostate cancer that grows despite castrate levels of testosterone 

and that no longer responds to any form of hormonal manipulation and 

for which nonhormonal approaches are required, can be precisely 

defined as hormone-refractory prostate cancer (HRPC). Until recently, 

there has been no standard chemotherapeutic approach for HRPC. In 

this article recent advances in the treatment of HRPC using 

chemotherapeutic regimens are critically reviewed. We performed a 

MEDLINE search of the published reports from 1995 to 2002 including 

chemotherapy in the treatment of HRPC. We critically reviewed a total 

of 84 clinical trials, of which only 6 were phase III trials, most of 

the studies being phase II trials. Various chemotherapeutic agents 

have been used. To date, the major benefits of chemotherapy in the 

treatment of HRPC are palliative in nature, in terms of reduction of 

pain and use of analgesics and improvement of performance status, as 

followed in the most recent trials. There is a promising activity of 

new drug combinations, such as vinca alkaloids and taxanes in 

association with estramustine. Mitoxantrone, although with a limited 

activity, has been shown to provide improvement in pain and quality 

of life for the patients. Several studies suffer from methodological 

deficits, such as small number of patients, heterogeneity of enrolled 

groups or no definitive response criteria. Further phase III studies 

are necessary to better evaluate the efficacy of the different 

regimens. Copyright 2003 S. Karger AG, Basel



From Elfreem@aol.com Wed Mar 26 16:54:21 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Vinca

From: Elfreem@aol.com

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 09:54:21 EST



Vinblastine (Velban) and vincristine (Oncovin) are prescription 

chemotherapeutic agents that have been used for the treatment of cancer for 

over a decade.



 <A HREF="http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/uspdi/202593.html">MEDLINEplus Drug Information: Vinblastine 

</A>

 <A HREF="http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/medmaster/a682822.html">MEDLINEplus Drug Information: Vincristine</A>



Elliot



In a message dated 3/26/2003 7:44:31 AM Central Standard Time, 

herb-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes:



Periwinkle has two alkaloids, vinblastine and vincristine, which act as a

liquid "sponge" causing blood to absorb oxygen. Also it will aid stopping

internal hemorraging, bloody noses and bleeding piles.

I remember reading somewhere as well that it is being researched in lung

cancer......but darn if it doesn't slip my mind where I read it....sorry



From paf@gbronline.com Thu Mar 27 03:36:39 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Recurring Fever

From: paf <paf@gbronline.com>

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:36:39 -0600



My daughter had similar symptoms as below for a month, and it turned out to

be a tick-borne virus.  Difficult to diagnose, difficult to treat.

Antiviral herbs are helpful.



-Anita



>I need some advice for my youngest daughter who will be 4

>soon.  She has always been a healthy child, but for the last

>2 1/2 weeks.  It started one night with a fever of 103-104 F

>and it lasted for three days.  On the fourth day her

>temperature was normal but she was still pale and in need of

>a nap in the afternoon.  Since then she is well in the

>daytime and nighttime, but at around 7-8 pm her temperature

>goes up to 103 F for an hour or two.  The only symptoms are

>more tired than usual in the afternoon/evening, slightly

>paler skin tone, not much appetite when the temperature goes

>up.



From wdsofedn@bellsouth.net Thu Mar 27 10:46:59 2003

To: <Herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Boneset/interferon

From: myron <wdsofedn@bellsouth.net>

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 17:46:59 +0900



Ok,  Great! I knew if I kept reading this list diligently I'd finally get a

chance to ask this question that's been bugging me forever (though

apparently not long enough to decipher the answer on my own)

I've heard it said (by no less than Donnie Yance, though it may have been in

a dream) That the intense, and deep "bone" pain experienced during an acute

infection is due to massive surges in interferon.  Perhaps, I guess, as an

evolved attempt by the body to force the person into convalescence.  This

may be evidenced (or not?) by the "flu-like" symptoms associated with

interferon therapy in cases of Hepatitis C.  My question then: assuming that

interferon surges had other immunologic effects besides forced

convalescence,  Would these benefits be hampered by the continuous

administration of Eupatorium perfoliatum (Boneset). If so would these

concerns apply equally to the flu AND the symptomatic relief from the side

effects of interferon ?

I've used boneset in both cases quite effectively but always

wondered/worried if I were actually working Against the body (at least in

the former case).

Any takers?

-- 

Myron in Louisville

In the weeds... 



From Avam57@aol.com Thu Mar 27 22:34:34 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] re: herb interactions

From: Avam57@aol.com

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:34:34 EST



Savia Miltorrhizia--anyone know of any specific interactions with 

pharmaceuticals? Is it abortfacent in action? Thanks



From Juliesjames@aol.com Fri Mar 28 17:25:17 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Echinacea & Liver Disease

From: Juliesjames@aol.com

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:25:17 EST



PubMed has an abstract in which Echinacea is listed as possible hepatotoxic. 

Now, if this were an issue, seems to me that we'd have livers falling out of 

people all over the world, as folk tend to use echinacea for any problem they 

have (or dont). Walk into a natural foods store and echinacea is an 

ingredient in widely diverse and completely inappropriate products: weight 

loss, hair growth, energy-for _these_ have we stripped our wild stands. 



So what mechanism or compound might cause echinacea to be damaging to the 

liver?

I cant find any more info other than this one reference. 



Julie



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 28 17:50:55 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Echinacea & Liver Disease

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 17:50:55 +0200



Juliesjames@aol.com wrote:

> PubMed has an abstract in which Echinacea is listed as possible

> hepatotoxic. 



Old, old, _old_ "news". And thoroughly debunked. Try this post, from 

alt.folklore.herbs:



http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=aq75sus35o6nhisi5irh4djgtnoschducm%404ax.com



The pertinent bits:



The ech liver scare all goes back to one single source. Lessee... this one.



  Herbal Medicinals:  Selected Clinical Considerations Focusing on Known or

  Potential Drug-Herb Interactions, by Lucinda G. Miller Arch Intern Med.

  1998;158:2200-2211:



OK, let's go down into the dirty details on this. Miller says, and I quote:



  If used beyond 8 weeks, Echinacea could cause hepatotoxicity and therefore

  should not be used with other known hepatoxic drugs, such as anabolic

  steroids, amiodarone, methotrexate, and ketoconazole. However, Echinacea 

  lacks the 1,2 saturated necrine ring associated with hepatoxicity of 

  pyrrolizidine alkaloids.



Can we say confused writing? First she says it's toxic because of 

pyrrolizidine alkaloids (PAs), next she says Ech doesn't have toxic PAs? 

There's _LOTS_ of plants that contain PAs. Only some of them are toxic. If 

you say plants that contain PAs in general should not be used you can pretty 

much scratch all of the Asteraceae, for starters.



Like, yaa-aawn.



The real problem lies with plants that contain livertoxic pyrrolizidine

alkaloids. Ech is NOT such a plant.



Further down the text, Miller goes on about the dangers of Ech:



  Purportedly, tachyphylaxis ensues if Echinacea mechanisms are used for more

  than 8 weeks although the mechanism of this phenomenon has not been...



Miller could at least have looked just a teeensy bit further down the text of

the Comm.E monographs (which is where this is from). There it says that

tachyphylaxis (an inflammatory response, for instance, fever, or shivering.) 

is a problem with _injected_ Ech.



Like, yaa-aaa-aawn.



Can we say muddled issues, confused thinking, applying the wrong logic? 



Miller should not be allowed to do further research reports, at least until 

she grasps simple things like the difference between injected and oral.



And anyway, it doesn't much matter _which_ foreign substance you inject into

your bloodstream, your lymphocytes will get busy cleaning them out pretty darn

quick. Further, nobody but MDs (and nurses) are legally allowed to inject 

things into people, AFAIK all over the world. So this point is _completely_ 

moot outside of Germany, where MDs actually do use injectable forms of 

diverse herbs, and such are available to said MDs.



So. There is NO PROBLEM with ech taken by mouth; it's one of the most benign

herbs there is. You could get _drunk_ on Ech tincture if you so wished. The 

herb would not give you any trouble whatsoever; the alcohol would give you a

hangover. You could use Ech tea as your regular beverage, instead of, say,

coffee or Chinese tea, without any problems whatsoever. Echinacea is _safe_.



Henriette



From caphector@mac.com Fri Mar 28 20:34:11 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Noni Juice?

From: "Cap'n Hector" <caphector@mac.com>

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:34:11 -0800



I've had a friend who has been talking about the benifical effects of "Noni Juice", and I was wondering if anyone has heard about it...



The reasearch I can find online seems to say that it boosts the immune system, but it's hard to find sites that list research that aren't selling the product...



Thanks for your help,



Cap'n Hector



From elementalclay@webtv.net Fri Mar 28 20:37:41 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: Re: [herb] Noni Juice?

From: elementalclay@webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:37:41 -0600 (CST)



The university of Hawaii used to have information on the medicinal uses

of noni juice.  I had no luck getting the seeds to sprout.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 28 20:38:51 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Noni Juice?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:38:51 +0200



Cap'n Hector wrote:

> I've had a friend who has been talking about the benifical effects of "Noni

> Juice", and I was wondering if anyone has heard about it...

>

> The reasearch I can find online seems to say that it boosts the immune

> system, but it's hard to find sites that list research that aren't selling

> the product...



All you ever needed to know about noni juice:



http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/neat-stuff/sbganoni.html



Henriette



From hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu Fri Mar 28 21:08:57 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] RE: Echinacea

From: hkobayas <hkobayas@students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:08:57 -0600



If used beyond 8 weeks, Echinacea could cause hepatotoxicity and therefore

  should not be used with other known hepatoxic drugs, such as anabolic

  steroids, amiodarone, methotrexate, and ketoconazole. However, Echinacea

  lacks the 1,2 saturated necrine ring associated with hepatoxicity of

  pyrrolizidine alkaloids.



Can we say confused writing? First she says it's toxic because of

pyrrolizidine alkaloids (PAs) next she says Ech doesn't have toxic PAs?



No she does not say that. She simply mentions that Echinacea should not be 

taken with other known hetatoxic drugs. She nowhere mentions PAs in the first 

sentence. In the enxt sentence she mentions that Echinacea does not contain 

PAs and thefeore she indicates other possible causes/mechanisms.



Hideka



From hetta@spamcop.net Fri Mar 28 21:55:50 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] RE: Echinacea

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:55:50 +0200



hkobayas wrote:

>> If used beyond 8 weeks, Echinacea could cause hepatotoxicity and therefore

>>   should not be used with other known hepatoxic drugs, such as anabolic

>>   steroids, amiodarone, methotrexate, and ketoconazole. However, Echinacea

>>   lacks the 1,2 saturated necrine ring associated with hepatoxicity of

>>   pyrrolizidine alkaloids.

>>

>> Can we say confused writing? First she says it's toxic because of

>> pyrrolizidine alkaloids (PAs) next she says Ech doesn't have toxic PAs?

>

> No she does not say that. She simply mentions that Echinacea should not be

> taken with other known hetatoxic drugs. She nowhere mentions PAs in the

> first sentence. In the enxt sentence she mentions that Echinacea does not

> contain PAs and thefeore she indicates other possible causes/mechanisms.



She mentions hepatotoxic PAs earlier on, and in this paragraph jumps to the 

conclusion that Ech is hepatotoxic because of them... but it'd take me some 

while to dig that out again, and I don't feel like it. You might want to read 

the original paper ... but it's pure FUD.



Henriette



From drkelly@icdc.com Sun Mar 30 20:29:13 2003

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] mistletoe?

From: "L Kelly" <drkelly@icdc.com>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:29:13 -0500



Saw mistletoe listed as ingredient on commercial blood pressure lowering

tea.  Poison control says whole plant is  poisonous.



How is it processed or combined  to not cause harm?     LK



From mwherbs@cox.net Sun Mar 30 19:29:40 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] mistletoe?

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs@cox.net>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:29:40 -0700



>Saw mistletoe listed as ingredient on commercial blood pressure lowering

>tea.  Poison control says whole plant is  poisonous.

>

>How is it processed or combined  to not cause harm?     LK

>

Well where is the tea from? How much is in the tea?

The way that it is a poison is the way it is medicinal. You just use 

judicious amounts of it in order to get the desired affect, and 

probably not something to be simply used by a novice.

Sharon in Tucson



From hetta@spamcop.net Sun Mar 30 20:52:04 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] mistletoe?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:52:04 +0300



Sharon Hodges-Rust wrote:

> LK wrote:

> >Saw mistletoe listed as ingredient on commercial blood pressure lowering

> >tea.  Poison control says whole plant is  poisonous.

>

> >How is it processed or combined  to not cause harm?     LK

>

> Well where is the tea from? How much is in the tea?

> The way that it is a poison is the way it is medicinal. You just use

> judicious amounts of it in order to get the desired affect, and

> probably not something to be simply used by a novice.



And also: which mistletoe? Is it a Viscum or a Phoradendron? Whichever, 

neither is all _that_ toxic, really.



Henriette



From Herbmednurse@aol.com Mon Mar 31 01:46:05 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] live plants by mail

From: Herbmednurse@aol.com

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 17:46:05 EST



not too long ago, we moved from the city to a 'hobby' farm.  unfortunately, 

because it was winter, I was unable to dig up any very precious roots of the 

herb 'farm' i had in the city.  now that spring is sprouting, i'm looking 

over our acreage, talking to the previous owner and other farmers --- and 

there is nothing of anything i once grew so much of.  not even comfrey!  

<imagine>  

all last night, i went from site to site looking at plants for sale by mail.  

i really don't want much in the way of seed; would rather have some 

plantlets.  i've no experience in ordering - live plants - via the mail, and 

wondered if anyone had anything good/bad to share about any place that 

they've gotten herbal plants from???

right now, i'm interested in horehound, peppermint, winter-hardy thyme, 

comfrey, catnip, lavender, echinacea, feverfew, borage, and marshmallow.  i 

know i have some anise hyssop seeds and a bit of feverfew and echinacea seeds.

help? (i especially miss my horehound and comfrey)

tia!



From aegisent@chartertn.net Mon Mar 31 02:57:03 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] live plants by mail

From: "Aegis Enterprises" <aegisent@chartertn.net>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:57:03 -0500



www.richters.com    They are in Canada.



CoraLynn

ne TN



From earthmedicine@mindspring.com Mon Mar 31 02:35:04 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] live plants by mail

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine@mindspring.com>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 17:35:04 -0600



My favorites for both live plants and seeds

http://www.horizonherbs.com



http://www.elixirfarm.com



I also occasionally buy seed from

http://www.johnnyseeds.com



http://www.seedsofchange.com



Green blessings,

Erica



From louherbs@paulbunyan.net Mon Mar 31 03:12:38 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] live plants by mail

From: louherbs@paulbunyan.net

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:12:38 -0600



Goodwin Creek Gardens!!



They ship live plants that they have grown themselves on their Oregon farm.

Very professional, very personable, and trustworthy.  They will ship the

plants at the proper time for your area, but will ship right away or a

different date at your request.  I've been buying from them for maybe 10

years now, and am entirely satisfied with all I have ordered.  I highly

recommend them.  Their address is attached below.



Lou



Goodwin Creek Gardens

Post Office Box 83

Williams, Oregon 97544

800-846-7359

www.goodwincreekgardens.com



From HerbalSW@aol.com Mon Mar 31 04:39:36 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] live plants by mail

From: HerbalSW@aol.com

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:39:36 EST



I have had great success with Mountain Valley herbs and Richters both found 

on line



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From darcyblue@hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 05:01:18 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] live plants by mail

From: "Darcey Blue" <darcyblue@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:01:18 -0700



YOu can try Horizon Herbs. They sell plants via mail. I have only bought 

seed from them, so i can't give any advice on the live plants, but they seem 

to be very behind their business and high quality...



http://www.chatlink.com/~herbseed/



darcey



We know she lives. She is the voice of the newborn and the Ancestor, the 

gaze of the last white tiger and flower that breaks through the road. She is 

the red thread of life in all of us; she is tomorrow and we cry for 

her:Mother, free us.

~~Rose Flint

http://www.angelfire.com/az3/bluewindsong You can



From sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de Mon Mar 31 20:03:25 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] live plants by mail

From: "Sorcy" <sorcy@kskbirkenfeld.de>

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:03:25 +0200



> YOu can try Horizon Herbs. They sell plants via mail. I have only bought

> seed from them, so i can't give any advice on the live plants, but they

seem

> to be very behind their business and high quality...

-----------------

I ordered my 'starters' echinacea and comfrey roots from there, and while

they had a long travel time (over the big pond) the quality was impeccable!!



Sorcy



From mterry@snet.net Mon Mar 31 05:13:57 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] live plants by mail

From: May Terry <mterry@snet.net>

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:13:57 -0800 (PST)



--- Herbmednurse@aol.com wrote:



> i've no experience in ordering - live

> plants - via the mail, and 

> wondered if anyone had anything good/bad to share

> about any place that 

> they've gotten herbal plants from???



I've had good luck with Richters (NCI).



May



=====

The time is always right to do what is right.  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.



From multiflorum@hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 17:46:20 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] sars

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum@hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:46:20 -0500



Anyone have any herbal comments on the recent SARS concerns?



hmm... reports tend to leave me hearing "butterfly weed... butterfly 

weed..."



From HerbsAcadiana@aol.com Mon Mar 31 18:33:24 2003

To: herb@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] sars

From: HerbsAcadiana@aol.com

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:33:24 EST



In a message dated 3/31/2003 8:46:57 AM Central Standard Time, 

multiflorum@hotmail.com writes:



> Anyone have any herbal comments on the recent SARS concerns?

> 

> 

> hmm... reports tend to leave me hearing "butterfly weed... butterfly 

> weed..."



And..."Elderberry...Elderberry."  Also, this particular virus might respond 

well to homeopathic TX.



Henrietta



From kchisholm@ca.inter.net Mon Mar 31 18:53:40 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] sars

From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm@ca.inter.net>

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:53:40 -0400



Would not the best thing to do be to "build up the immune system?



How is this best done?



Kindest regards,



Kevin



> Anyone have any herbal comments on the recent SARS concerns?

> 



From hetta@spamcop.net Mon Mar 31 22:44:41 2003

To: Herb <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] sars

From: Henriette Kress <hetta@spamcop.net>

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:44:41 +0300



Kevin Chisholm wrote:

>

> Would not the best thing to do be to "build up the immune system?

>

> How is this best done?



Sleep well

Eat well

Take your vitamins

Exercise regularly (but don't overdo it - that'll stress you again)

Reduce stress

Avoid things like tobacco, too much coffee, alcohol



Do all of that, and do Echinacea, too.



Ta ta

Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                                          Helsinki, Finland

Over 40 MB herbal .html files (FAQs, classic texts, articles, links), plus

pictures, zipped archives, the works, at:   http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From SmallShipCruises@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 31 23:56:56 2003

To: "Herb" <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] SARS

From: "Robert Linde" <SmallShipCruises@worldnet.att.net>

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:56:56 -0400



I love this treatment protocol, but in the paper all I have seen of symptoms

is high fever and cough, does anyone have more details on symptom

progression,

I wonder about adding buffalo horn or gypsum to your formulas

also some possibles are Coptis (huang lian) Woad root (ban lan

gan)platycondon root (jie geng)

bob

----- Original Message -----

From: "John Redden Viriditas" <redden@viriditasherbalproducts.com>

To: <herb@lists.ibiblio.org>

Cc: <ontarioherbalists@smartgroups.com>

Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 5:10 PM

Subject: [herb] SARS



I would treat SARS in this way:

Acute phase: Asclepias tuberosa (Butterfly weed)

                     Eupatorium perfoliatum (Boneset)





