From mt_turtle.email.com Thu May 01 00:32:51 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Sanguinaria

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 06:32:51 +0900



traditionally applied as a root paste, tinctured also works



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 01 00:36:59 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:36:59 +0300



d.a. wrote:



>   Granted, some of what you say is true, and I am not advocating that

> anyone should try it! But nevertheless, this type of herbal therapy has

> historic HERBAL tradition behind it and is hardly unique. 



As far as I know these tissue-destroying salves (escharotics) require zinc 

chloride to really work - not herbal.

The eclectics might have used such escharotics, but they also merrily used 

mercury and lead.



The lot doesn't belong to herbal history, but to _medical_ history. And I 

think they should stay there.



> So because Naiman has no medical degree, allopathic or otherwise--the

> material she has compiled has no value or is very low in creditability?



No. Because she calls herself a ND without real ND backing ... oh, I see she's 

dropped that. Smart move. She was still very "Ingrid Naiman, ND" a few years 

ago when I happened to frequent an email list she was also on. 



And I see her site has gone through a complete facelift - the only hint I can 

find to actual escharotics on that site is the name: cancersalves.com. Used 

to be, there'd be salves for sale, gruesome pictures, case histories, the 

works. Now it explicitly states "we don't sell escharotics here". Another 

smart move. Ingrid's grown wiser. Dunno if she even uses escharotics on 

clients anymore?



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From elsaucc.msn.com Thu May 01 01:41:19 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: "Elsa Bruguier" <elsaucc.msn.com>

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:41:19 +0000



>...Any ideas for an alternative med. to the one that was withdrawn 

> >yesterday (due to a reaction [full-body rash]) to prevent his salivary 

> >glands from drying out..



I would like to clarify that in keeping with list parameters, I was asking 

here (though articulating poorly) about herbal medicine alternatives that 

might address the issue of dessicated salivary glands.



Thanks to all who considered/answered my questions.



Elsa



From Jeninct2.aol.com Thu May 01 04:42:06 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: Jeninct2.aol.com

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:42:06 EDT



Hi !



I know that there is immune suppression in luekemia cases due to bone marrow 

transplants...the idea is to suppress the immune system so it doesn't reject 

the transplanted bone marrow...but I have never heard of the immune system 

being intentionally suppressed with chemo....yes the chemo actually causes 

the immune system to be surpressed...but that is not the desired action. It 

is my understanding that one part of the cause of cancer is due to a 

surpressed immune sysem...in addition to other factors.



I would think that the only contraindication for taking any immune system 

enhancer was if one was on corticosteroids or medications to intentionally 

surpress the immune system...ie those that have had organ transplants.



Take Care!



Jen in CT





From Jeninct2.aol.com Thu May 01 05:01:50 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: Jeninct2.aol.com

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:01:50 EDT



In a message dated 4/30/03 6:44:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

phosphor.hotkey.net.au writes:



<< this may not be correct: I recall reading cancer cells gobble up glucose

 very readily. I think some people have therefore found benefit in switching

 to a very low carb diet. >>



>From the American Cancer Society



http://www.cancer.org/docroot/MBC/content/MBC_6_2X_Benefits_of_nutrition_during_treatment.asp?sitearea=MBC



The main idea is a balanced diet...though for some people they may just want 

to cut some things out due to the change in appetite due to the chemo side 

effects. I knew a guy going through chemo that just couldn't handle the smell 

of some foods cooking...would set his stomach rolling.



>What about the cyanogenic compounds in apricot/peach kernel, peach leaves,

pawpaw seeds?>



I have never juiced apricot/peach kernals, peach leaves, pawpaw or apple 

seeds for that matter. I think the kernals just might damage the 

juicer...though not positive and don't want to experiemnt with my juicer:) As 

I give my granddaughter some of my juices each day...I definately don't want 

to give her apple seeds...never have tried pawpaws.



Take Care!



Jen in CT



From phosphor.hotkey.net.au Thu May 01 12:10:26 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor.hotkey.net.au>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:10:26 +0300



< The main idea is a balanced diet>

code for having no idea what one is talking about.



< I have never juiced apricot/peach kernals, peach leaves, pawpaw or apple

seeds for that matter>

the juicing idea has been left behind i think.



Andrew



From carlton47.earthlink.net Thu May 01 05:15:10 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:15:10 -0600



Think about it this way...if chemo is a strongly reducing therapy designed

to locate and destroy rapidly growing abnormal cells which have their own

protective mechanisms, why would you want to build cells to thwart this

process?  The immune system is protective of destructive invaders as best

it can against stuff that will eat holes in tile.  Fortunately, these days,

many chemo agents are even more specific and do not destroy as much healthy

tissue in many types of cancers, but first you must have something that can

penetrate and destroy abnormal cells, so initial chemo rounds often are the

"whammy" type.   You want to support the redevelopment of healthy bone

marrow through nutrition (that bone marrow and vegetable soups throughout

is a great help), but not a rapid response type cell growth.  



The question was about dessicated salivary glands which are hard hit as is

all mucosa in chemo.  Marshmallow root in small quantities seems not to get

in the way of treatment and along with mucilagenous foods like okra, can

support saliva, water element, and mucosa.



The immune system suppression is a reflection sometimes of cancers, and

generally of chemo that destroys the cells that are destroying cells..and

so on.  There are many opinions about whether to use immune building

protocols during treatment.  I am simply asking that before tossing

astragalus, echinacea, and even my beloved ashwaganda at a cancer patient,

learn about the cancer, its method of growth and cell protection, the type

of chemo and its function and what is the best physical status for

treatment penetration and success.  If the oncology team is aware of herbal

interests, they will generally suggest good timing for use.  I have stuck

with external massage for comfort and support without medicinal additives

precisely not to interfere with a treatment protocol...because if herbs are

used and the chemo fails to hit its mark then either higher doses or more

potent chemo will be added with significantly more risk to the patient.



> Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

>

> Hi !

>

> I know that there is immune suppression in luekemia cases due to bone

marrow 

> transplants...the idea is to suppress the immune system so it doesn't

reject 

> the transplanted bone marrow...but I have never heard of the immune

system 

> being intentionally suppressed with chemo....yes the chemo actually

causes 

> the immune system to be surpressed...but that is not the desired action.

It 

> is my understanding that one part of the cause of cancer is due to a 

> surpressed immune sysem...in addition to other factors.

>

> I would think that the only contraindication for taking any immune system 

> enhancer was if one was on corticosteroids or medications to

intentionally 

> surpress the immune system...ie those that have had organ transplants.

>



From phosphor.hotkey.net.au Thu May 01 08:45:13 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor.hotkey.net.au>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:45:13 +0300



< I would also think that one would want to bulk up on carrots and other

cancer  fighting veg.s/fruits...plus have the benefits of the nutrients of

the vegs/fruits.>



this may not be correct: I recall reading cancer cells gobble up glucose

very readily. I think some people have therefore found benefit in switching

to a very low carb diet.



What about the cyanogenic compounds in apricot/peach kernel, peach leaves,

pawpaw seeds?



Andrew



From elementalclay.webtv.net Thu May 01 10:42:44 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: elementalclay.webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 02:42:44 -0500 (CDT)



Jim,

  Could you explain how simmered beef marrow helps support bone marrow?

  This thread hits close to home as many things discussed could have

helped my father including the saliva support and nutritional problems

with patient revulsion to foods.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From marcobabi.libero.it Thu May 01 13:49:38 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: marco valussi <marcobabi.libero.it>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:49:38 +0200



  PLEASE be careful of immune

>building during chemo treatments.  The immune building herbs are potent and

>will counter desired and targeted chemo treatment.



Although I wholeheartedly support the idea that great care should be taken

in intervening with patients with tumors and undergoing chemio, I would

dispute this assertion, at least in this absolute phrasing.  Sure, before

embarking in a therapy of this kind all the aspects of patient situation

(constitution, general levels of energy, responsiveness, etc.),  type of

cancer (staging, dimensions, immune evasion ability, etc.)  and of the

chemio regimen (mono or polypharm, mechanisms, hepatic metabolism and

therefore possible interactions with other agents, etc.) need to be

evaluated.  In this sense an immune modulatring approach is not simple and

certainely needs a professional approach. However, there are many cases,

both in cancer and autoimmune disorders and in AIDS, where a well pondered

immune modulation can make a big difference.  In fact immune therapy is

also part of the biomedical armamentarium: active therapy with nonviable

tumor cells and passive therapy with IL-2, IFN and other cytokines used to

activate tumor-infiltrating lymphocytes and NKCs.  Since these therapies

have been moderately effective in treating certain kinds of tumors, it can

be expected that herbal remedies which can activate IL-2 will be active and

not detrimental. Even more important however is the fact that certain

remedies can 1.  increase the health of the immune system (for this reason

I prefer to talk about immune modulation more than immune stimulation), and

it has been shown that a healthier IS helps the success of chemio.  2.

decrease the ability of cancer cells to evade the IS, that is, make the

cancer cells more immunogenic.   Having said that it seems to me that

immune therapy can at best increase the efficacy of therapies which address

the various mechanisms of cancer infiltration, progression and

proliferation: signal transduction, gene expession and the rest.



>The idea of chemo is to wipe out immune response in order to initially

>destroy cell division and growth.



I would say that the idea of chemio is that of targeting the mechanisms at

a cellular and organism level which support cancer growth and spread, which

means: DNA and DNA-enzymes damage.  Obviously this strategy will be more or

less specific, and it will, more or less, affect all actively proliferating

cell, inclusive those of the IS, but this is an undesider consequence of

chemio, not a mechanism.  In fact cancer cells by themselves produce

various humoral factors which are immunosoppressive 4PGE2, etc.) so

building up the immune system seems a good counteracting strategy.



Usually it is not a good idea to use

>immune building herbs during this phase as it will encourage cell growth of

>abnormal as well as normal cells



This would only be true if the immunestimulating effect of remedies was one

of a generic cell proliferation and undifferentiation; however, from what I

know of immune enhancing remedies, this is not the case.  In fact some

remedies can stumulate apoptosis, which is a good thing.



Detox remedies are IMO more 'delicate' because they usually involve an

hepatic action which can be dangerous as pharma interactions are involved;

antioxidants need to be used with caution because there are controversial

reports over their suporting action on cancer cells.  At the end of the day

every case is a specific case and cannot be treated with a general approach.



As for salivary gland atrophy, perhaps a banal suggestion, but bitter herbs

have a nice stimulating action , and needn't to be swallowed.  And

Echinacea has a good sialagogue (sp?) action.  Perhaps a combination of

these with mucilage can be useful.  An old remedy was sage infusion, it has

the stumulating prop of ess oils and the mucilages as well.

Cheers

Marco



Marco Valussi BSc. (Hons.) Phytotherapy

Rappresentante Italia EHPA (European Herbal Practitioners Association)

www.euroherb.com

marcobabi.libero.it



From polo.cameron.net Thu May 01 16:47:34 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: "d.a." <polo.cameron.net>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:47:34 -0500



    Contraire, contraire, dear Henriette,



    Most of the salves listed are purely herbal. Starting with Hildegard of

Bigen's salve of violets, olive oil and goat fat.  These salves have evolved

into rather complex herbal formulas through the ages. True, zinc chloride

tended to be used in some of the latter eclectic's formulas and by other

MDs, i.e. Eli Jones, john pattison, perry nichols, and Frederic Mohrs; but

there is much more to cancer salves than zinc chloride and to penalize the

whole concept of such a salve because of a mineral

component is rather short sighted!  As an efficient scholar would, Naiman

has covered everything in unusually stunning detail. I agree that her

credentuals in spiritualism may put her work under suspect, but this is a

nice academic work on a very misunderstood herbal subject. I suggest you

actually read the book before condemning it. Jems of wisdom can be found in

the most unexpected of places.



    Naiman starts with Hildegard's violet salve which was claimed to kill

cancerous cells on contact.  Bloodroot and pokeroot are other commonly used

salve herbs. Dr. Christopher used cayenne in his for increased circulation.

Naiman deals with "drawing salves" and examines Christopher's black ointment

containing poke root, red clover, chaparral, plantain and many other herbs.

Here are some of the other formulas that she describes:



An anti-metastasis beverage of yarrow in fennel tea.



Historic Indian poultices consisting of red onion, poccon powder, poke root,

jimson seed, boar's tusk root. Dr. Thomson's cancer plaster of red clovers.

William Fox, MD's cancer liniment of blue flag, red clover, and bloodroot.

Though Dr E. Jones tended to use the minerals in his remedies, she describes

his poultice powder of slippery elm, flax seed, lobelia seed and bayberry

bark.  His yellow healing salve of burgundy pitch, white pine turpentine,

beeswax, mutton tallow, and olive oil. His compound syrupscophularia of

scophularia, phytolacca, rumex crispus toot, celastrus scandens bark/root,

podophyllum root, juniper berries, prickly ash berries, guiacum wood, and

oil of sassafras.  She studies Hoxsey closely and lists many of his known

formula which are devoid of zinc chloride, though his salve did contain

some. She covers various poke root poultices and a mullein lobelia

fomentation for breast cancer. She has a great section on herbal "Boluses".

Herbal vaginal douches and enemas are covered. Naiman goes on and on in a

very exhaustive study of herbal tradition in the treating of cancers,

particularly in the epidermal and tumor vain.  All the cautions and dangers

are closely studied and proclaimed.



    I highly recommend the book for the pure study of the subject, if

nothing else.



doug



    .



----- Original Message ----- 



> Henriette wrote:

>

> As far as I know these tissue-destroying salves (escharotics) require zinc

> chloride to really work - not herbal.

> The eclectics might have used such escharotics, but they also merrily used

> mercury and lead.

>

> The lot doesn't belong to herbal history, but to _medical_ history. And I

> think they should stay there.

> Henriette



From carlton47.earthlink.net Thu May 01 17:34:37 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:34:37 -0600



Absolutely Marco...



Immune modulation has and exercises tremendous effect...but timing is

everything, and knowing what aspects of the immune system are affected by

an herbal approach is key which isn't always so easy to identify as immune

building can refer to a great number of aspects of the immune system.  So,

in my sweeping universality, my caution is simply, as you say, to confer

with the treatment team and get ALL the info before embarking on an immune

system rescue campaign which may affect even an immune modulating treatment

protocol...serendipitously perhaps, but then the team doesn't know what is

causing the beneficial effect. Cancer is not a problem to treat without

specific knowledge due to both the adverse potential of the treatment and

the definite adverse effect, often irreparable, of the pathology.



Central pathway diseases such as cancer are deeply and sneakily invasive

which is why "cutting out the tumor" or "getting good labs"  is too often a

charade as the master cells and undifferentiated germ cells can carry the

chemical messages of the cancer physiology...and emerge under the right

conditions no matter how powerful the immune system numbers and how

specific the therapies.  That astragalus, echinacea, ashwagandha, turmeric,

gotu kola and a host of other herbs are potent tools in themselves is

without question...but if there are too many players in the treatment

protocol, there will be misleading results.



I have spoken often here of the usefulness of herbs and nutritional as well

as massage therapy approaches in a family member's case with the

recommended timing of the treatment team.  Her "levels" of red blood cells

and T-Cells normalized in record time through the use of turmeric, saffron,

ashwagandha, and some digestive spices in a milk tonic.....between chemo

rounds.  She also had experimental therapies not one knew the effects of

for sure...she grew very healthy cancer cells in the chemical soup of

chemo, and grew the same in an experimental use by a treatment team of

"potentized" garlic.  So I am a strong supporter of immune building

herbs....just not in the initial stages of treatment and not without full

knowledge of the oncology team.  What works for one will harm another. 

First rule in my book is: "Do no harm"



As for detox, I am obviously wary as to add to the liver kidney and

apocrine/endocrine load is dangerous and as I mentioned, child size amounts

of more gentle herbs, if any, are to be used is the safer route. 

Palliative therapies do not "detox" in the harsh sense of things and are

always balanced with demulcent, tonic, and supportive combinations.



In my view the very best suggestion so far has been to  to cook up a good

bone marrow and vegetable soup or other basic nutrition to support the body

functions and core survival allowing treatment to take its effect and then

address adjunctive needs once the treatment information has been given its

identifiable parameters in any given individual.  



Aliceann



> [Original Message]

> From: marco valussi <marcobabi.libero.it>

>

> Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

>

>   PLEASE be careful of immune

> >building during chemo treatments.  The immune building herbs are potent

and

> >will counter desired and targeted chemo treatment.

>

> Although I wholeheartedly support the idea that great care should be taken

> in intervening with patients with tumors and undergoing chemio, I would

> dispute this assertion, at least in this absolute phrasing.  Sure, before

> embarking in a therapy of this kind all the aspects of patient situation

> (constitution, general levels of energy, responsiveness, etc.),  type of

> cancer (staging, dimensions, immune evasion ability, etc.)  and of the

> chemio regimen (mono or polypharm, mechanisms, hepatic metabolism and

> therefore possible interactions with other agents, etc.) need to be

> evaluated.  In this sense an immune modulatring approach is not simple and

> certainely needs a professional approach. However, there are many cases,

> both in cancer and autoimmune disorders and in AIDS, where a well pondered

> immune modulation can make a big difference.  In fact immune therapy is

> also part of the biomedical armamentarium: active therapy with nonviable

> tumor cells and passive therapy with IL-2, IFN and other cytokines used to

> activate tumor-infiltrating lymphocytes and NKCs.  Since these therapies

> have been moderately effective in treating certain kinds of tumors, it can

> be expected that herbal remedies which can activate IL-2 will be active

and

> not detrimental. Even more important however is the fact that certain

> remedies can 1.  increase the health of the immune system (for this reason

> I prefer to talk about immune modulation more than immune stimulation),

and

> it has been shown that a healthier IS helps the success of chemio.  2.

> decrease the ability of cancer cells to evade the IS, that is, make the

> cancer cells more immunogenic.   Having said that it seems to me that

> immune therapy can at best increase the efficacy of therapies which

address

> the various mechanisms of cancer infiltration, progression and

> proliferation: signal transduction, gene expession and the rest.

>

> >The idea of chemo is to wipe out immune response in order to initially

> >destroy cell division and growth.

>

> I would say that the idea of chemio is that of targeting the mechanisms at

> a cellular and organism level which support cancer growth and spread,

which

> means: DNA and DNA-enzymes damage.  Obviously this strategy will be more

or

> less specific, and it will, more or less, affect all actively

proliferating

> cell, inclusive those of the IS, but this is an undesider consequence of

> chemio, not a mechanism.  In fact cancer cells by themselves produce

> various humoral factors which are immunosoppressive 4PGE2, etc.) so

> building up the immune system seems a good counteracting strategy.

>

> Usually it is not a good idea to use

> >immune building herbs during this phase as it will encourage cell growth

of

> >abnormal as well as normal cells

>

> This would only be true if the immunestimulating effect of remedies was

one

> of a generic cell proliferation and undifferentiation; however, from what

I

> know of immune enhancing remedies, this is not the case.  In fact some

> remedies can stumulate apoptosis, which is a good thing.



>



From marcobabi.libero.it Fri May 02 09:57:31 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Throat cancer and herbal allies

From: marco valussi <marcobabi.libero.it>

Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:57:31 +0200



Absolutely Aliceann... :-)



>Absolutely Marco...

>

>Immune modulation has and exercises tremendous effect...but timing is

>everything, and knowing what aspects of the immune system are affected by

>an herbal approach is key which isn't always so easy to identify as immune

>building can refer to a great number of aspects of the immune system.  <snip>

So, In my view the very best suggestion so far has been to  to cook up a good

>bone marrow and vegetable soup or other basic nutrition to support the body

>functions and core survival allowing treatment to take its effect and then

>address adjunctive needs once the treatment information has been given its

>identifiable parameters in any given individual.

>

>Aliceann

>



Marco Valussi BSc. (Hons.) Phytotherapy

Rappresentante Italia EHPA (European Herbal Practitioners Association)

www.euroherb.com

marcobabi.libero.it



From dmam.optonline.net Thu May 01 06:07:10 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Herb Digest, Vol 2, Issue 55

From: Peter Marino <dmam.optonline.net>

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:07:10 -0400



WOW! what a bunch of opinion and assertion being tossed around. This being

my first post, I'll try to keep it civil.



If anyone has actually read Naiman's book or visited her web site, you'll

find she doesn't advocate eschotics with ZnCl. She doesn't even really

suggest blood root based eschotics and warns veahmently against novice use.

I think you need to study up on eschotics if you believe ZnCl is needed for

a response. Naiman has compiled quite a few " herbal tonics" that she will

always point to. I think you'll also probably find herbal surgery quite

libelous (in the U.S.A. at least) even as a licenced M.D.



As for "real" or "accurate" oncologic surgery (now that's an oxymoron, like

precision bombing!), you are obviously not familiar with head and neck

surgery!!! Not that is gruesome! Life saving, maybe, depending on the stage.

But at what cost to quality of life?



Also, chemo therapy is not meant to specifically target the immune system.

Unless the patient is having a bone marrow transplant. Immune suppression is

a side effect, not a wanted response. The last thing wanted is a bacterial

infection, but will mostly happen and land the patient on triple

antibiotics. Which then opens the door for a fungal over growth. Believe me

when I tell you, that a systemic fungal problem, can be the oncologists

worst nightmare, but is a possible scenario.



Now, a good point by point constructive criticism of eschotics would have

been a much better learning experience, rather than character assassination

and allopathic assumption. For I'm led to believe, that eschotics will only

attack cancerous cells, leaving "normal" cells alone. If so, than this would

be an ideal debulking agent, for it would leave the carotid intact.



P.M.

(and I don't dare post my credentials, even though they are bona fide)





From carlton47.earthlink.net Thu May 01 10:48:29 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Re: Herb Digest, Vol 2, Issue 55

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 01:48:29 -0600



> [Original Message]

> From: Peter Marino <dmam.optonline.net>

> Subject: [herb] Re: Herb Digest, Vol 2, Issue 55

>

> WOW! what a bunch of opinion and assertion being tossed around. This being

> my first post, I'll try to keep it civil.

>



>

> Also, chemo therapy is not meant to specifically target the immune system.



In fact Peter, newer chemotherapies definitely target the immune system

specifically seeking to harness immune system response to attack cancer

cells as I am sure you are aware.  However, cancer usually arises following

long standing incusion into the immune system and marrow which has produced

inflammatory tissue responses in vulnerable body tissues that can trigger

rapid cell growth and turnover promoting tumor growth and the whole nine

yards of blood supply and a very sophisticated protective chemistry that

masks detection by immune cells.



> Unless the patient is having a bone marrow transplant. Immune suppression

is

> a side effect, not a wanted response. 



It is an effect and for most big guns chemotherapy agents, the evidence of

cell destruction has been used to measure chemo penetration...  risk

management has traditionally been the balance between destruction of

'healthy" cells and cancer cells.  Obviously this has improved in recent

years  with newer agents, but the big guns are still used and, if immune

suppression is not seen, then there is concern over the effectiveness of

the chemo agent.  It's nice to rejoice over "good counts" that co-exist

with tumor or cancer cell destruction for sure.



Immune system suppression is being used in many auto-immune disorders as

well..including Lupus and Crohn's as you probably know.  The effect seeming

to be that the redeveloping immune cells take on normalized function with

consequent elimination of the inflammation and tissue damage from

autoimmune attacks.



The last thing wanted is a bacterial

> infection, but will mostly happen and land the patient on triple

> antibiotics. Which then opens the door for a fungal over growth. Believe

me

> when I tell you, that a systemic fungal problem, can be the oncologists

> worst nightmare, but is a possible scenario.



It's interesting to me that in recent years (apart from exposure to weird

stuff like ebola and SARs), very immune suppressed folks on chemo have

experienced fewer bacterial and fungal messes.  Those with continued

aggressive cancer have been more vulnerable.  This  experience is based on

patients I see in psychotherapy practice as well as in support groups. 

Oncology units and Emergency Departments may have a very different picture.



>

>

> P.M.

> (and I don't dare post my credentials, even though they are bona fide)



So, why not post them then?



Aliceann



From sc62.charter.net Thu May 01 07:26:46 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Immune System Formula

From: "Sandra" <sc62.charter.net>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:26:46 -0400



My granddaughter, 22 y.o., has moles that keep occurring all over her, that

she must keep getting cut away; ten removed so far; the doctor called them

skin cancer.

When she was very young, her parents divorced and her mother moved away; she

took it very hard, and began having many health problems, such as Raynaud's

and IBS syndrome, and clusters of warts on her feet that have to be

surgically removed periodically (virus).



I encouraged her to improve her diet, and strengthen her immune system,

(not *instead* of the medical treatment).



I wanted  to make her one of Michael Moore's formulas, but I was confused

between one called an Immune TONIC, and another called Immune STIMULANT.



After reading a recent post about some immune-enhancing herbs possibly

encouraging the growth of the wrong kind of cells, if I understood that

right, I'm not sure which one would be beneficial. When and if there is an

auto-immune disorder here,  would the state of the immune system be

*hypered*, or *suppressed*, so that one or the other would be

contra-indicated.



In Michael's book 'Medicinal Plants of the Pacific West', on p. 314, he

lists several herbs under categories of properties, such as the

'Immunostimulant'. Does that mean that these herbs

are interchangeable and can be substituted, so that if I didn't have the

snakeroot, for example, (Virginia Snakeroot Aristolochia serpentaria, is

90.00 lb.) I could use the red root listed there instead, were I to make

this formula?



Thank you very much,



Sandra



From carlton47.earthlink.net Thu May 01 08:21:06 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Immune System Formula

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:21:06 -0600



Hi Sandra,



You are probably going to have responses from both ends of the spectrum and

point in between.  My view regarding auto-immune problems is to try to

decrease the triggers to the auto-immune response.  When it is as deeply

entrenched as you describe in this young woman, I would be inclined to move

slowly with a palliative reducing protocol encompassing lifestyle,

nutrition, herbs, and a quieter type spiritual practice of whatever is her

best connection to the nature of life.  



When symptoms are this distributed and complex, it suggests to me a central

pathway disturbance where core tissues such as marrow and bone are

affected.  To build up what already exists in excess as ama or increased

tissue reactivity doesn't make as much sense as slowly asking the body

tissues to come back into balance.  A light, balanced diet with good

nutrients and mixed warming and cooling digestive herbs representing all

tastes (sweet, sour, bitter, salty, pungent and astringent) at each meal

invites balance.  Even though there is excess in terms of improper immune

response, there also is deficiency in terms of depleted body tissues and

cells..so both need to be addressed.  The more gentle cleansing approaches

such as dandelion tea, hot water and lemon juice before meals, hydrotherapy

in warm but not hot water, exposure to light and fresh air but not extremes

of temperatures or intense sun, nor extended darkness all will invite the

body into alignment.  



Michael Moore has some of the best formulations I have ever read of or

learned and his assessment forms are very detailed. I am sure others here

can speak to his formulas and recommendations with much greater knowledge. 

However, the key part is to be accurate in assessment of constitution as

well as imbalance, so nothing will beat a face to face consultation in my

view.  I think you have certainly shown wisdom in connecting the bits and

pieces to a fundamental imbalance.  Choosing the correct path of treatment

and support is not simple.



Rebuilding immune function correctly once the feeding of the imbalances is

out of the way is absolutely necessary, and  knocking back the viral load

throughout the body is important too.  My choices in the knockdown phase

often are aloe juice, and a combination of neem, gotu kola and asafoetida

which addresses gut and skin.  I use this for viral infections and stubborn

leftovers of same.  My son-in-law found it helpful when he contracted

chicken pox as an adult two years ago...shortened the course and intensity

of it.  There are plenty of herbs to use.  I would start out with the

cleansing and reducing ones first then move to building and tonic.  Since

my 25 y.o. daughter has lived with immune system and autoimmune system

problems from birth I have learned to let her instincts lead the way.  She

can tell quickly when an herb is not right and just as quickly when it is

right no matter what the books or manuals say.



Good luck and take in all opinions as you consider options to suggest.



Best regards,

Aliceann



> Subject: [herb] Immune System Formula

>

> My granddaughter, 22 y.o., has moles that keep occurring all over her,

that

> she must keep getting cut away; ten removed so far; the doctor called them

> skin cancer.

> When she was very young, her parents divorced and her mother moved away;

she

> took it very hard, and began having many health problems, such as

Raynaud's

> and IBS syndrome, and clusters of warts on her feet that have to be

> surgically removed periodically (virus).

>

> I encouraged her to improve her diet, and strengthen her immune system,

> (not *instead* of the medical treatment).

>

> I wanted  to make her one of Michael Moore's formulas, but I was confused

> between one called an Immune TONIC, and another called Immune STIMULANT.



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 01 13:47:19 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: ingrid

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:47:19 +0300



Peter Marino wrote:



> find she doesn't advocate eschotics with ZnCl. She doesn't even really



It's "escharotics".



> Now, a good point by point constructive criticism of eschotics would have

> been a much better learning experience, rather than character assassination

> and allopathic assumption. 



Like I said, Ingrid has grown wiser these days. Shrug.



> For I'm led to believe, that eschotics will only

> attack cancerous cells, leaving "normal" cells alone.



Okay, and legalities aside: I have never seen anybody who has used 

escharotics (except for the usual "use dandelion sap on warts").

But I have talked to herbalists I trust who have seen escharotics used on 

deeper tumors - these salves can be really horrible. Clean, painless? - not 

really, no. Effective? - only sometimes.



Those who have actually used escharotics on deeper tumors, or who have seen 

the results of such use with their own eyes: please speak up.

I'd love to be convinced about the usefulness (or even about the relative 

harmlessness) of escharotics - _by people with personal experience in their 

use_.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From Elfreem.aol.com Thu May 01 15:42:06 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Throat cancer and herbal allies 

From: Elfreem.aol.com

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:42:06 EDT



<<<In a message dated 4/30/2003 5:42:39 PM Central Daylight Time, 

herb-request.lists.ibiblio.org writes:



And I see her site has gone through a complete facelift - the only hint I can 



find to actual escharotics on that site is the name: cancersalves.com. Used 

to be, there'd be salves for sale, gruesome pictures, case histories, the 

works. Now it explicitly states "we don't sell escharotics here". Another 

smart move. Ingrid's grown wiser. Dunno if she even uses escharotics on 

clients anymore?

>>>



Ingrid is making an attempt to disconnect her role as a source for

product for sale and more as a source of information. For the last few

years she has been afraid of being shut down by the FDA and has

purposely been mute on some of the cancer cures she has known 

about ..possibly even involved with personally. Do not mistake

the lack of products on her web site as a signal for a change

away from the use of escharotics.



Elliot



Elliot



From mwherbs.cox.net Thu May 01 17:47:02 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: escharotics

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs.cox.net>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:47:02 -0700



I have used a salve on myself and my DH and a handful of my friends 

have used it, on themselves. Since I didn't concoct it couldn't say 

exactly what is in it and I don't want to know because I think that 

it is a huge responsibility and you would end up dedicating your life 

to just such work. The stuff I used was sold to me by some folks who 

treated their horses and themselves with it. The batch I used on my 

DH was from Dana Matt's source, they looked and smelled different but 

the effect was similar.

    I didn't use it on deep tissue it was superficial, the surface bit 

I applied it to, on myself was originally the size of a pin head, the 

scar is about the size of a quarter and went 3/4 inch deep. It was 

located on the upper part of my calf and after the first 3 days was 

painful. There was no way to completely keep the paste off the normal 

tissue and still completely cover the emerging area, because there 

was some normal tissue over the part that died, it was burnt by the 

salve. It is true that the central area- the cancer didn't hurt. 

Because the chunk that comes out can not be predicted before hand, I 

can truly appreciate how dangerous it could be if it is over a larger 

vein or artery look-out how are you going to control that bleed? For 

me it took 3 weeks. When I treated my DH his was in the middle of his 

back original size about 1/2 of what it ended up and his is between a 

quarter and a fifty cent piece in size and more shallow maybe only 

1/4 inch deep, and came out in 1 1/2 weeks. His did not hurt, maybe a 

slight burning occasionally, but it wasn't on a moving part so not 

much pull on the site and not much healthy tissue covering the 

cancer. Neither of them got infected nor did they smell, not even as 

much as a umbilical cord, though it did brown out much the same way.

    This is a topical treatment so if you have metastases it isn't 

really going to work, the primary tumor isn't really the point then 

because it has traveled, you would need a systemic treatment, and 

with that perhaps the primary tumor will recede.

   Because I have had a hobby of reading old medical autobiographies I 

have read a couple doctor's accounts of using escharotics. One 

doctor, Dr. McCartney in  in northern New York/Canada (he traveled on 

both side of the border to treat folks) used prudently an escharotic 

paste, he preferred other treatments but would use the paste on a few 

select cases. His paste included cocaine for pain. One case he 

treated was a man who had a cancerous tumor involving his mastoid, I 

think it was post surgery that didn't get the entire tumor he applied 

the salve and the guy had the entire area slough off including the 

bone he went on to live at least another 7 years.

    I think that the effects can be big and could be life threatening 

as well, it is like a chemical burn so you have the possibility of 

shock, excessive fluid loss, bleeding, pain...This is not a treatment 

to be undertaken lightly.

    I know one woman who put it on a spot on her face, luckily it 

wasn't her nose, her cheek  and the entire bit came off in 3 days if 

was very superficial then she was the scar it was going to leave and 

went to a plastic surgeon he said he could fix it after it healed but 

her insurance wouldn't pay for it. He was from India and was familiar 

with this form of treatment so wasn't too shocked or chastising.

sharon in Tucson



From Elfreem.aol.com Thu May 01 20:18:25 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: escharotics 

From: Elfreem.aol.com

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:18:25 EDT



>>>

In a message dated 5/1/2003 11:03:17 AM Central Daylight Time, 

herb-request.lists.ibiblio.org writes:



 I know one woman who put it on a spot on her face, luckily it 

wasn't her nose, her cheek  and the entire bit came off in 3 days if 

was very superficial then she was the scar it was going to leave and 

went to a plastic surgeon he said he could fix it after it healed but 

her insurance wouldn't pay for it. He was from India and was familiar 

with this form of treatment so wasn't too shocked or chastising.

>>>



Can you provide more details on the salve that was used?



Elliot



From mwherbs.cox.net Thu May 01 19:18:40 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: escharotics

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs.cox.net>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:18:40 -0700



same stuff I used on my DH , like I said I didn't endeavor to know 

what the stuff was exactly. I would bet it had Zinc chloride and then 

...? So my friend with the spot on her face it was very shallow and 

not really under any other tissue at all what you saw was what came 

off. This is not true of all skin cancers, probably if she had it 

removed by surgery they would have taken more tissue than what came 

off, because they take a bit for good measure to be sure to get it 

all.

Sharon in Tucson



From dmam.optonline.net Thu May 01 19:58:55 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] chemo's

From: Peter Marino <dmam.optonline.net>

Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 12:58:55 -0400



> Message: 10

> Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 01:48:29 -0600

> From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>



> > In fact Peter, newer chemotherapies definitely target the immune system

> specifically seeking to harness immune system response to attack cancer

> cells as I am sure you are aware.



Well, since this is an herbal list, this is kinda off topic. If anyone wants

to continue this thread, I suggest we do it privately.



The case in hand being dicussed has not defined the cancer per say (type,

primary site, etc...). I'm willing to bet it is a sarcoma. I'll also bet

there are no such chemos, as you mention, being considered for this case (if

it is being treated conventionally). The usual course of radiation to shrink

it, surgery to clean it out and chemo to "mop" up, is the norm.



> It's interesting to me that in recent years very immune suppressed folks

on chemo have

> experienced fewer bacterial and fungal messes.  >Those with continued

> aggressive cancer have been more vulnerable.  This  experience is based on

> patients I see in psychotherapy practice as well as in support groups. >

Oncology units and Emergency Departments may have a very different picture.



As you already stated..... Good counts are something to be celebrated. But

late staged cases and salvage doses have not changed the secnario.



> So, why not post them then?

> Aliceann



Why? Would it add any credence to what I have said?



A very important question to ask of the medicos(but you may not get an

honest answer), is; if the treatment about to be administered is considered

curative or palliative? Then a person can make an informed choice as to what

intervention to choose, or at the least, what not to choose.



P.M.



From redden.viriditasherbalproducts.com Thu May 01 23:13:01 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] 

	Cancer treatment : salves, immunomodulation, herbs, food & chemo

From: "John Redden Viriditas" <redden.viriditasherbalproducts.com>

Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:13:01 -0400



Hi folks,

I would like to briefly state that I have been treating people with various

cancers for twenty years as a herbalist. Unlike orthodox medicine I do not

attack the cancer but help the body return to normal functioning. I have

worked with oncologists and on teams with nurses, naturopaths and other

therapists. Ingrid Naimon , Ralph Moss, Hartwell and Yance all have done

extensive research on the history of cancer treatment. Reading the primary

sources that they quote has helped me find my way. I will list my most

successful remedies below.



Hoxsey's or Trifolium compound has enormous benefits for the liver and

lymphatic organs. The controversy is around the people and not the formulae.

Essiac is a mild lymphatic and demulcent. Overhyped by sales people though

it still has a place of use, especially with inflamed mucus membranes.

Eli Jones' Scrophularia compound is similar in action to Hoxsey's though

less cathartic. It does not need be made by soxhlet extraction to work.

Immunomodulators: Astragalus, Ganoderma spp.,Lentinus, Panax,

Eleutherococcus, Inonotus obliquus, Trametes versicolor and their adjuncts

are always a major component of my treatment protocol.

Anti-inflammatory: Glycerrhiza, Dioscorea, and Bupleurum reduce the need for

synthetic cortical steroids and counter some of the damage of chemo.

Raw beet juice, wheat grass juice and chlorella provide nutrition and

cleansing actions.

"Immune boosting soups" of mushrooms (above), Arctium (gobo), garlic, sage,

thyme and miso offer nutrition, anti-bacterial&anti-fungal protection and

probiotics.

Violet salve softens tumours as does castor oil.

Escharotic salves. I have only seen two cases as I am in training though I

made the salve with Sanguinaria and Alpinia galangal and ZnCl. One was an

encapsulated mass and one was an infiltrating growth with several masses.

Both times the process took over two months of extreme pain as the breast

tissue was burned away revealing the growth. One popped out and the healing

began leaving a nasty scar. The other took over half of the breast tissue

(med-lg to begin with) but we used a honey based salve to heal and it healed

faster and looked better. Only for the brave and heroic.



No one is cured though I have people who are still around more than a decade

longer than the doctors give them. Like alcoholics, cancer patients must

never go back to their old ways and must adopt a new and disciplined

lifestyle to maintain quality of life.I hope this has helped the discussion.

John



From dmam.optonline.net Fri May 02 19:37:09 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] salves, immunomodulation, herbs, food & chemo

From: Peter Marino <dmam.optonline.net>

Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:37:09 -0400



Just to clarify John,

Chief Sundance and John R. Christopher used natural forms of iodine in their

formula. Unlike Hoxey, who used pharmaceutical. What form do you use?



P.M.



> Message: 4

> Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:13:01 -0400

> From: "John Redden Viriditas" <redden.viriditasherbalproducts.com>

> Subject: [herb] Cancer treatment : salves, immunomodulation, herbs,

> food & chemo



> Hoxsey's or Trifolium compound has enormous benefits for the liver and

> lymphatic organs. The controversy is around the people and not the

formulae.



From ngbard.juno.com Sat May 03 02:56:24 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] info needed (psoriasis)

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 19:56:24 -0400



Psoriasis is a genetic disease; you can't make it go away altogether, 

but you can stop flareups: don't do coffee, tobacco, alcohol, stress. 

Eat high-quality foods only. Help the liver. Do high-quality EFAs. You 

also might want to make a psoriasis salve, with mahonia, burdock, 

calendula, and St. John's wort. Henriette

Woud you include some kind of cayenne oil in a psoriasis salve? (OTC here

uses a capsaicin cream for temporary relief ( a derivative of cayenne))

Marcia

---



From ngbard.juno.com Sat May 03 23:23:16 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] help

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 16:23:16 -0400



Joyce Joyce Woods theempressnyc.yahoo.com wrote:

If you feel you need something to soften your

clothing, use some vinegar in the rinse cycle. Once

your clothes are dry there will be no vinegary smell.

 

I add:    You can change the aroma of vinegar by adding aromatic herbs

and spices and letting them "tincture" for a few days and pour it through

a coffee filter and rebottling it for the laundry situation.  Oregano

would be antiseptic and allspice, also with a nice overtone, or

cloves...Take a look through your herbals for something aromatic.  You

might as well have fun.

Marcia    ngbard.juno.com

--- 

 



From ngbard.juno.com Sat May 03 23:45:20 2003

To: Herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] question on support materials for throat cancer

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 16:45:20 -0400



Andrew phosphor.hotkey.net.au  wrote:What about the cyanogenic compounds

in apricot/peach kernel, peach leaves,pawpaw seeds?>



If they were mortar-and-pestled and tinctured and added in small amounts

to juices and other foods, might these amygdalin-bearing sources be

helpful?



Marcia

---



From cultiv8r.tpg.com.au Sun May 04 04:16:28 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Drug Cartels war on nature

From: kobi <cultiv8r.tpg.com.au>

Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 11:16:28 +1000



Hello all,



Not sure if it has been mentioned here yet or not but a tragic story is 

unfolding this week in Australia.



The all-powerful pharmaceutical industry are manipulating the failure 

of an synthetic anti-histamene drug made by Pan Pharmaceuticals who are 

also the leading manufacturer of natural medicines and remedies.



Now the biggest medical recall in Australia's history, only one 

pharmaceutical drug and 1300 natural products have been withdrawn from 

the shelves across the country under the orders of the federal 

government's TGA. Australians have been told not to consume any 

vitamins, health supplements, herbal remedies or natural products but 

assured that all pharmaceutical prescription drugs are safe.



The company in question is under heavy scrutiny regarding some 

management and administration issues, and possibly some manufacturing 

processes.



Sadly, the entire complimentary health industry is feeling the brunt of 

this corporate driven witch-hunt and Australian's a gullibly throwing 

away everything from vitamin C to primrose oil.



The media are faithfully serving the corporate paradigm and we can only 

hope for some sort of effective resistance and exposure of how the drug 

companies operate throughout the world.



If anyone has any useful information and resources that may help 

Australians wake up to the global exploitation by the drug cartels, 

please forward them on to cultiv8r.tpg.com.au



With thanks



Links to media reports are here:-

http://www.abc.net.au/public/

http://smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/28/1051381890445.html



From smokeplants.wildapache.net Tue May 06 03:39:47 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] nettle root for prostate

From: "Mairi Ross" <smokeplants.wildapache.net>

Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:39:47 -0700



Hi



Some commercial formulas for prostate health include nettle root. How does

one prepare nettle root for this purpose?  How effective is it?  I'm looking

to make a prostate health formula for my partner with local plants: so far

am looking at Ocotillo bark, Red Root, and Prickly Pear Cactus  (I live in

Arizona) and we have a lot of nettles. Any other suggestions?



Thanks

Mairi



From hetta.spamcop.net Tue May 06 16:03:51 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] nettle root for prostate

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:03:51 +0300



Mairi Ross wrote:



> Some commercial formulas for prostate health include nettle root. How does

> one prepare nettle root for this purpose?



Dried nettle root, either as tea (decoction - it's a root) or in capsules. 



> How effective is it?



I usually tell people to use 2 herbs and change to 2 different ones every 2 

weeks. That means you need 4 in total. This because two herbs together is 

more effective than single herbs, in benign prostatic hyperplasy (the most 

usual prostate complaint), and because changing over every now and then is 

more effective than using same old same old all the time.



You'll see prostate health improving in that he no longer has to get up in the 

middle of the night to pee, and in that he can write his name in the sand 

again. Once that happens you can leave the prostate herbs; start again when 

he has to go pee regularly in the middle of the night again.



> I'm

> looking to make a prostate health formula for my partner with local plants:

> so far am looking at Ocotillo bark, Red Root, and Prickly Pear Cactus  (I

> live in Arizona) and we have a lot of nettles. Any other suggestions?



Saw palmetto (southern Texas, but could be closer to you, too)

Bidens, any species, aboveground parts

Epilobium, any species, leaf

pumpkin seeds or other seeds that contain lots of zinc - or zinc in pills



Ocotollo and red root are liver and lymphatic herbs, respectively - very good 

ones, and boy, do I ever wish those two grew over here. 

Prickly pear, shrug. It's a food.



... did I tell y'all'n about my close friend, one of the most ladylike beings 

there are? Lipstick, painted fingernails, tiptop, the works? No? Okay then: 

We've had a very long winter, with lots of snow. Most of the snow went a month 

ago, down here in the sunny south.



Now, my friend's in the habit of going outdoors every day, for 1-2 hours of 

working in the woods. She recently told me that winter was over just a teensy 

bit too early.



That she'd been training all winter long. 



And that, if only her name started with an "O", she could now write her name 

in the snow.



I almost fell off my chair, I was laughing so hard.



Henriette (Here's to fun friends, present and absent!)



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From redden.viriditasherbalproducts.com Tue May 06 19:09:55 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Cancer treatment  KI and pancreatic enzemes.

From: "John Redden Viriditas" <redden.viriditasherbalproducts.com>

Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 12:09:55 -0400



Hi Peter et al,

I use pharmaceutical KI salt in my Trifolium/Hoxsey formulae because of the

large amount of both K (potassium) and I (iodine) required for

supplementation. How do you get that from sea weeds etc. in large

quantities?

I also sometimes use (porcine) pancreatic enzymes in early stages of

treatment and prevention. The naturopath or MD on the team has to

prescribe/procure them.

I suppose coffee enemas are herbal and they work well at moving things

through the liver and bowels.

All in all, each person requires their own path back to health but I find

myself choosing from a relatively small list of efficacious treatments for

the seriously ill.

John



From wdsofedn.bellsouth.net Thu May 08 07:45:50 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: credentials

From: myron <wdsofedn.bellsouth.net>

Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 13:45:50 +0900



"Jim McDonald S.T.H., H.N.



or perhaps "F.O.S." is better..."



I'm guessing that's not for

fructo-oligo-saccharides

(though I've heard they help...:) )



Myself?  C.H. : "certified huckster"



From mt_turtle.email.com Thu May 08 19:22:07 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: credentials

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 01:22:07 +0900



YOU WROTE:

maybe I both?

Jim McDonald S.T.H., H.N.

or perhaps "F.O.S." is better...



I ADD: 

I vote for just H.N.  Used to be folks only used the initials for the degree that took the highest level of education, now it seems their credentials list longer than their name. I vote K.I.S.S. and I love herb nerds!!!

KB

P.S. Your sense of humor is refreshing!



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 08 17:48:27 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] bone soup and alteratives

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 10:48:27 -0400



Someone asked about the logic behind Bone Marrow soup for those undergoing 

cancer treatment.  Basically, the soup I described contained bones, 

astragalus, burdock, & garlic simmered good & long for broth, and then 

burdock, shiitakes, garlic & other "soup regulars" in the stew itself.



The idea here is both nutrition and nourishment of the immune system (I'll 

gracefully avoid whether Astragalus "stimulates" or "nourishes", or what the 

difference is...).



The idea behind the bone marrow is that our bone marrow creates lymphocytes, 

white & red blood cells.  The kidneys, while "screening" the blood send an 

"inventory" of what's in it to the bone marrow.  The bone marrow then makes 

the required blood cells to acheive the right "balance".



If the bone marrow is stressed or injured by chemo (or whatever... maybe 

massive doses of interferon if we're treating hep C), then the task of 

creating blood cells falls onto the lyphatics and spleen... which they can 

do, but they're already burdened by all the metabolic clean-up they're 

involved in, so the extra work takes away from that.



Bone marrow stew nourishes the bone marrow to help it remain strong and 

healthy during times of great stress, whatever they be.  What kind of 

mechanism does this work through?  I've got NO IDEA.  Its folk medicine, 

passed on & on & on... I just noticed that when I tried it, it seemed to 

work well.



Though he doesn't talk about stew, Eli Jones's "Cancer, its causes, symptoms 

& treatments" is on Michael Tierra's site and is certainly worth reading 

over.  I've got a print copy, and it should be noted that the old 

pharmacuetical notations in some of the recipes in the web version seem not 

to be the same as the book... you can get it (granted, its a very pathetic 

"tissue paper" book) from minimum.com for about $5.



The most imprtant thing, he states, is to build the energy and vitality of 

the patient, NOT to "attack the cancer" directly.  The cancer will not be 

resolved if the vitality is low.  So focusing on "anti tumor herbs" or 

escharotics or whatever is a moot point until the patients digestion and 

metabolism are improved... the mechanisms that create "good blood" have to 

be working well.



This is why Jones's Cancer Drops and and Hoxsey's formula and Essiac and 

Compound syrup of scruphularia are all primarily blends of alteratives.  

Alteratives nourish & build up, and that's what should be done FIRST in ANY 

case of degenerative illness.  Create a nourishing formula of alteratives 

and adaptogens, and then work on addressing specifics with "stronger" more 

"medicinal" herbs.



From wjp1816.nycap.rr.com Fri May 09 09:57:53 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] bone soup and alteratives

From: "Bill Pizer" <wjp1816.nycap.rr.com>

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 02:57:53 -0400



Recently on the TV I saw a section on dining in New York City.  I don't

remember if it was "Food Finds" or some other show.  The show featured a new

dish of bone marrow.  I don't know they got the bones of that size with the

marrow.



Beside it looking good, I would like to locate some bones for that dish.



I can remember when I was growing up in Utica, my father owned a "corner

grocery store".  We use to cut our round stead and leave the bone in.  When

it was cooked my father and I would see who could get the bone with all it's

flavorable marrow.



Every now and then I am luck to get some bone marrow.



Bill,

Albany, NY



From phosphor.hotkey.net.au Fri May 09 10:02:19 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] bone soup and alteratives

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor.hotkey.net.au>

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:02:19 +0300



JIm wrote:

< The idea behind the bone marrow is that our bone marrow creates

lymphocytes, white & red blood cells.  The kidneys, while "screening" the

blood send an "inventory" of what's in it to the bone marrow. >



very interesting. Do you know what is the hormone or mechanism that the

kidney uses to tell the marrow?



< The bone marrow then makes  the required blood cells to acheive the right

"balance".>



in TCM the kidneys and marrow get lumped together a lot.  so here's a

confirmation of that.



the chinese also call the brain the 'sea of marrow'.  its been discovered

that immature stem cells from the marrow can migrate to the brain and turn

into neurons.



in terms of treating cancer, there was one vagabond healer of the early

twentieth century who used a lot of homeopathics and mother tinctures, his

name being Ellis Barker.  he used to treat cases of cancer successfully

without always getting rid of the tumour; ie the patient stayed in good

health and eventually died of something else, and the tumour was kept in

quiescence.



Andrew



From Foxhillers.aol.com Fri May 09 14:29:22 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] bone soup and alteratives

From: Foxhillers.aol.com

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 07:29:22 EDT



Bill

   My local grocery store always has marrow bones and I make this soup 

regularly both from beef bones and cracked chicken bones as the Chinese do.

   I think one of the PBS cooking shows just recently also featured marrow 

bone soup.

mjh



In a message dated 5/9/03 4:06:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

wjp1816.nycap.rr.com writes:



> Recently on the TV I saw a section on dining in New York City.  I don't

> remember if it was "Food Finds" or some other show.  The show featured a new

> dish of bone marrow.  I don't know they got the bones of that size with the

> marrow.

> 

> Beside it looking good, I would like to locate some bones for that dish.

> 

> I can remember when I was growing up in Utica, my father owned a "corner

> grocery store".  We use to cut our round stead and leave the bone in.  When

> it was cooked my father and I would see who could get the bone with all it's

> flavorable marrow.

> 

> Every now and then I am luck to get some bone marrow.

> 

> Bill,

> Albany, NY

> 



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 08 17:56:27 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] credentials

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 10:56:27 -0400



> > (and I don't dare post my credentials, even though they are bona fide)

>

>So, why not post them then?



this wasn't directed at me but...



jim mcdonald

~self taught herbalist~



...would that be



Jim McDonald, S.T.H.?



maybe I could go for that herb nerd thing...



Jim McDonald, H.N.



maybe I both?



Jim McDonald S.T.H., H.N.



or perhaps "F.O.S." is better...



From carlton47.earthlink.net Fri May 09 08:20:23 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] credentials

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 23:20:23 -0600



Seems to me that this is a site of wisdom keepers and wisdom seekers (not

either or but both) no matter what the alphabets....  I asked because I

wondered why it mattered either way and why anyone would be wary of posting

whatever credentials represent to that individual.  



I always listen carefully to your posts Jim because they are clearly said

and reflect knowledge and common sense.  In my opinion, your comments about

bone marrow soups and good nutrition are the core of health and healing no

matter what the condition along with digestion as the foundation.



Best Regards,

Aliceann, T.O.F. (Tired Old Folk)



> [Original Message]

> From: jim mcdonald <multiflorum.hotmail.com>



> Subject: [herb] credentials

>

>

> > > (and I don't dare post my credentials, even though they are bona fide)

> >

> >So, why not post them then?

>

> this wasn't directed at me but...

>

> jim mcdonald

> ~self taught herbalist~

>

> ...would that be

>

> Jim McDonald, S.T.H.?

>

> maybe I could go for that herb nerd thing...

>

> Jim McDonald, H.N.

>

> maybe I both?

>

> Jim McDonald S.T.H., H.N.

>

> or perhaps "F.O.S." is better...

>



From hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu Fri May 09 01:16:25 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Another kava paper

From: hkobayas <hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 17:16:25 -0500



An article ("Hepatitis induced by Kava") is going to be published in Journal 

of Hepatology (Stickel et al., 2003). This is basically a review of 36 cases 

("So far the biggest" authors boast), and the conclusion is drastically 

different from Denham et al. (2002). At one point, authors made a fatal 

mistake by stating kavalactones are alkaloids. This is rather short (6 pages 

including references), and their quality of work looks ok, but not excellent 

or anything. But what do I know? I would like to ask opinions of others who 

have access to Science Direct.



Hideka



From sumar.mail.ifas.ufl.edu Fri May 09 03:17:57 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Credentials

From: Susan Marynowski <sumar.mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 20:17:57 -0400



I don't mean to make fun. Credentials of all kinds are fascinating and

interesting to me for what they tell us about the person. But I can't

resist this one.  :-)   I'll be:



Susan Marynowski

Self-taught Herbalist In Training



That's:

Susan Marynowski, S.H.I.....



From polo.cameron.net Fri May 09 04:27:15 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] cancer theories

From: "d.a." <polo.cameron.net>

Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:27:15 -0500



    Since we have been discussing cancer to some extent on this list of

late, I was wondering if any of you are familar with Dr. David Gregg's

theory on cancer?  Of all the theories, I have ever studied, his, makes the

most sense to me and could generally encompass most all cancers.



    In a nutshell, cancer is a function of a cell or cells' energy. If for

whatever reason, this energy is interfered with, be it by Carcinogens,

Oncogenes, etc., all that is needed is for an essential enzyme or enzymes to

be removed. The Kreb's cycle and respiratory chain will subvert this cell or

cells back to the more primitive form of anaerobic metabolism.   This

anaerobic metabolism is still to be found in the primitive memory of cells.

As Dr. Gregg writes: "I propose that the normal cells have a

memory/capability of reverting back to a more primitive, biochemically less

complex state of survival. Possibly a memory of the time when the earth had

no oxygen in its atmosphere. Such primitive, single cell organisms had the

property of dividing without limit (no counting mechanism "telemer" as

exists in our more advanced cells). The division rate and extent was also

controlled simply by the availability of nutrients. They also did not have

the property of "differentiating" into specialized cells that would be

required for them to participate in a coordinated way with other cells to

enable a complex organism to function."



    Anyway, for those that find this capsule view of his cancer theory

interesting, you may read more at:



http://www.krysalis.net/cancer.htm



doug



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Fri May 09 15:48:51 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Spring in Vermont

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:48:51 -0400



Well it seems as though Spring is finally here in the North Woods-



In my garden Lilacs are leafing out(no flowers yet!), Comfrey is peeping out

of the Dirt- Chamomile has reseeded aplenty, Peonies are poking up like

asparagus. Lilies of the Valley are unfurling their leaves, fresh Echinacea

leaves are appearing from below the earth...Rosettes of Dandelion and

Evening Primrose decorate the ground. Valerian is appearing, Daylilies'

leaves are growing tall. I am probably the only person in this area who has

made a bed for Prunella- I just love her... Yarrow is spreading...and so is

something called "Bishops Weed" Aegopodium podagraria- anyone know any use

for that? It has a faint Angelica like smell...and it spreads like crazy! Oh

and I have a lovely second year Angelica that I am very excited about!

...the woodchuck is digging below the Viburnum...



On a walk in the woods the other day I saw many friends...Blue Cohosh, Trout

Lillies everywhere, Trillium, Coptis, Dwarf Ginseng, Hellebore(Epipactis

helleborine), a Yellow Ladies Slipper!



On a horse back ride through the meadows and some woods I saw Tussilago

aplenty, Marsh Marigolds(Caltha palustris), and fields and fields of

Galium...



Ah the green world is uncovered!



Michelle (Today I am going to eat some Dandelion roots and greens that I

sacrificed...)



From wjp1816.nycap.rr.com Fri May 09 21:57:27 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Spring in Vermont

From: "Bill Pizer" <wjp1816.nycap.rr.com>

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:57:27 -0400



Michelle,



Have you ever eaten Mash Marigolds?  They have to be picked before

flowering.  They have to be boiled and the first water thrown out (this

takes most of the bitterness out of the leaves).  They are good when

combined with a slice or two of fried bacon broken up into small pieces.

Both the pieces and the fat are poured over the awaiting dish.



Bill,

Albany, NY



From hetta.spamcop.net Sat May 10 08:26:58 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Spring in Vermont

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 08:26:58 +0300



Michelle Morton-niyama wrote:



> spreading...and so is

> something called "Bishops Weed" Aegopodium podagraria- anyone know any use

> for that? It has a faint Angelica like smell...and it spreads like crazy!



Goutweed? That's a real weed. 

It'll take over your yard if you let it (really), so just pull it out.



Young leaves, not yet unfolded, can be eaten, and people who like the taste of 

anise think they're delicious - as salads or used like spinach. Me, I say 

yech to all things anisy, so it's definitely not for me.



-----



Of wildflowers there's only the tussilago, but that was in flower weeks ago. 

And there's scillas striking blue all over the hill behind the sauna. Pretty!



I've been digging an enormous pit in my garden (for horseshit), and therefore 	

have dined on tiny garlics, every few days. Yum! The ones that have escaped 

me have finally managed to get aboveground. No crocuses at all. I can see 

that the roseroots (4 plants, 2 species) are planning flowers, in their 

newspapers on the other side of the yard. The irises are doing the same. 

The rest of the evacuated plants are more timid - ech and monarda and inula 

and angelica and lots of mints and hyssop and ...



Henriette (4 eggs in the new nest today, and she's started to brood.)



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From ngbard.juno.com Sun May 11 18:15:21 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Spring in Vermont

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 11:15:21 -0400



Michelle Morton-niyama wrote:

 

.. something called "Bishops Weed" Aegopodium podagraria- anyone know any

use

 for that? It has a faint Angelica like smell...and it spreads like

crazy!



I have a large patch of Aegopodium ( maybe podagrari, maybe podogyrus?)

it has green and white variegated leaves, with a local popular name of

"Youth and Old Age", that spreads like a weed, and it is useful beyond

garden color when flowers have faded I would like to know. Does anyone

have any info?



Marcia

---



From williamj.nac.net Sat May 10 01:56:31 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Rue plants

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 18:56:31 -0400



  Thanks Sarah.  I did a little look up and discovered that "rue" is used

for a lot of plants.  The local rue I have in the garden is probably in your

English perennial garden, too, as THALICTRUM PUBENSNS OR SIMILAR SPECIES.

ABOUT THE herb RUE.  all I RECALL IS READING ONCE IN A MURDER MYSTERY THAT

PROSTITUTES WHO REGULARLY TOOK RUE TO PREVENT CHILDREN REGULARLY ENDED UP

DEAD BECAUSE THE RUE STOPS THE BODY FROM TAKING UP A LOT OF ESSENTIAL VITS

AND MINERALS.



Bill



----- Original Message -----

From: "Sarah Head" <sarah.headology.co.uk>

To: "

>

> Rue is ruta graveolens. I



From hetta.spamcop.net Sat May 10 08:13:44 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Rue plants

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 08:13:44 +0300



Bill Jacobson wrote:



> Thanks Sarah.  I did a little look up and discovered that "rue" is used

> for a lot of plants.  



If you talk rue (or garden rue) you talk Ruta graveolens. 

If you add things other than "garden" to that rue you talk other plants.



> The local rue I have in the garden is probably in

> your English perennial garden, too, as THALICTRUM PUBENSNS OR SIMILAR



DON'T SHOUT PLEASE. 

Thalictrums are meadow rue, or anemone rue, or rue anemone. 

They're not rue, because that's Ruta graveolens.



And the most likely thing named rue to be found in an English perennial garden 

is - rue. Which is also what's found in my herb garden. Ruta graveolens.



Sure, there's Thalictrums in the marsh thataway -> but they're meadow rue, 

they're not rue.



> all I RECALL IS READING ONCE IN A MURDER MYSTERY THAT PROSTITUTES WHO 



I wouldn't be all that inclined to trust a murder mystery author in things 

herbal. After all, they have a plot to sustain.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From wdsofedn.bellsouth.net Sat May 10 09:35:07 2003

To: herblist <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] kidney/bone connection

From: myron <wdsofedn.bellsouth.net>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 15:35:07 +0900



"JIm wrote:

< The idea behind the bone marrow is that our bone marrow creates

lymphocytes, white & red blood cells.  The kidneys, while "screening" the

blood send an "inventory" of what's in it to the bone marrow. >



very interesting. Do you know what is the hormone or mechanism that the

kidney uses to tell the marrow?"



I think that would be Erythropoetin

Without it the bone marrow cannot manufacture RBCs (not sure about WBCs)

which makes me wonder if it is damage to the kidneys in chemo or radiation

that leads to drastic drops in hematocrit/hemoglobin levels.  Or is there a

loss of the necessary nutrients to manufacture the blood cell? or the

hormone erythropoetin?

Ther is some definite and fascinating mechanism of early evolutionary

biology that links the kidneys to the bone.  Assuuming adequate iron stores

and eryhtropoetin, RBC production can rise to 10 or more times normal: WHY ?

Was it evolved to combat possible blood loss in the injured or was it a

means of necessarily accelerated maturity in the move from ocean to land?

Those organisms that couldn't ramp up blood cell production died off (or

decided to hang out in the ocean) The erythrocytes or RBCs carrying oxygen

as part of the tidal surf...??? 



From joycew.triton.net Sat May 10 18:40:20 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] laws and herbs

From: joycew.triton.net

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:40:20 -0400 (EDT)



Spring finally seems here in northern MI also.  Our sure sign of spring?  Morels are up, and with recent rains looks like it is going to be an abundant year - yum!  

Haven't been able to get out in it much this last month as got hit hard with a sudden acute infection - but just sitting out in the sun with the toads and daffodils is a joy.

Which brings me to my next point.  Besides myself, I am aware of no serious herbalist/alternative practitioner in this area (though I could drive a couple hundred miles downstate).  Makes it pretty darn difficult when you are sick, because lets face it, when running a high fever, you are not making clear decisions, and shouldn't be treating yourself.

After years of trying to work as an herbalist in Michigan, I am convinced that a large part of the reason for this is the legal climate here.  It is unabashedly restrictive of herbal practice.  Most herbalists in Michigan practice or manufacture under the table because laws are so slanted towards corporate methodology and resources, and ramifications of being caught so draconian. There very well may be some wonderful experienced herbalists around here, but they aren't going to help unless they know you or have a firsthand trusted referrel. 

I am curious, if any of you on the list have had experiences with either run-ons herbalists have had with enforcement agencies - and how you dealt with them...  or with the process of how some of the states have changed laws to be more sympathetic with herbalism (not just generic alternative medicine, we have our share of reiki practioners).  Not websites and organizations that support alternative health choices, can do my own research, just asking for personal experiences and thoughts.  

This experience has got my dander up and and ready for wave making.



JoyceW F.M.H. (Fighting mad herbalist)



From sekhmet.netins.net Sat May 10 18:59:56 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] laws and herbs

From: "Rev. Christina Paul" <sekhmet.netins.net>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 10:59:56 -0500



Hi Joyce:



I am one of the few people that works at a nationally 

known cooperative that sells bulk herbs. I won't mention 

it by name, because it really serves no purpose - and I 

want to stay within the guidelines of the list. :-)



At any rate, my biggest frustration is the number of herbs 

that our company is pulling because of FDA *demands* - and 

that demand is then echoed by the insurance company that 

insures our cooperative business.  We have had to pull 

Ephedra Sinica (Chinese Ephedra) we have had to pull Kava 

Kava, and now Yohimbe.  The list goes on...and on and on, 

and it is my belief it will continue to go on because the 

insurance companies, the AMA, the FDA, pharmaceutical 

companies and Wall Street profit mongers will continue to 

call the tune and we as herbalists and consumers of 

products will continue to be harassed.



A little over a year ago, our company was pretty much 

financially coerced into discontinuing all capsules, 

tinctures and extracts and homeopathics. This of course 

was not what was told to the public - well not entirely. 

"It was not financially profitable for us to continue 

making".  Omitting, of course, the edict by the insurance 

company that if we DID NOT cease and desist from making 

these alternatives - which were fairly good - they would 

raise the rates to insure the business OR drop us 

entirely.  In business, in this sue-happy society, you 

cannot afford to be without insurance. Especially if you 

are a business of any considerable size.



We as a company are not allowed to discuss what an herb is 

for, we are not allowed to recommend books, websites, even 

good places to find a competent herbal practitioner. The 

only thing we are allowed to say is "Do your own research" 

and "I am sorry, but we are a licensed food wholesaler, 

therefore the law forbids me from giving you any 

information about this herb."



Are we living in America or are we living in some fascist 

society somewhere?  These people asking simple questions 

cannot get simple answers, because of "The LAW".  It is 

frustrating on both sides because I find myself on both 

sides of the issue. I desperately want to help these 

people - and I came to the company because I believed that 

I would get an opportunity to do that - but unfortunately 

got caught in the lurch of the quite disasterous 

reorganization of that company when it decided to go more 

"Commercial". Thank God they are going back to their roots 

(pun not intended, really) and what they originally 

believed in.  



I very possibly might lose my job as a result of speaking 

out about this, but I want people to know. I want people 

to realize that there is an all out assault from all 

directions and its a concerted attack.  Unfortunately 

profit margins, operating considerations such as staying 

insured, particularly in the case of large herb suppliers 

is going to pretty much call the tune as to what the 

herbalists and consumers in the US dance to.  



I don't blame you for being angry. I am angry and 

disillusioned and outraged that we let these soul-less 

 !.$!!  make these choices for us! What is worse, is the 

current Administration is helping to come about much 

faster it seems.



I currently have a business partner and Mentor who is an 

AHG Master Herbalist.  We have a little store locally, and 

we both keep each other abreast on what is happening. I 

find that that and contact with other herbalists seems to 

be the only way we can stay prepared against the attacks 

from "THE LAW".



Anyway, sorry for the rant.  But I really felt that it 

needed to be said, and those of you who know what and 

which company I am talking about will at last know the 

truth about the situtation. 



Sincerely



Christina Paul



From williamj.nac.net Sat May 10 20:23:25 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] laws and herbs

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:23:25 -0400



Good on you, Christina.  That wasn't rant, it was well thought-out and I

appreciated hearing it.



Bill

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rev. Christina Paul" <sekhmet.netins.net>

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 11:59 AM

Subject: Re: [herb] laws and herbs



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Sat May 10 21:03:18 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] laws and herbs

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 14:03:18 -0400



I've been, for the past several years, talking with herbalists form all over 

about aking a living in various areas of the feild (over by the goldenrod, 

maybe next to the queen anne's lace, maybe in the yarrow...).  Anyways, time 

and again, I've heard tales of people barely making a living, losing money, 

closing their shops, being coerced by restrictions about what they can and 

can't do and how they can or can't do it.  Its pretty frustrating, as I'd 

love to drop the day job and sustain myself on herbs alone.  Very few people 

can... though I always tell myself at least I'm not trying to make my living 

as a publishing poet...



I really wanted to run a very small community oriented apothecary, make 

tinctures, salves, ect, teach classes, and do consulatations here and there. 

  I've pretty much figured out that unless I become finacially... what's the 

word? oh LOADED, that's probably not realistic, for a number of reasons.  

Even if I had the coolest herb shop conceivable, with a staff of faerie-folk 

to answer questions about the esoteric virtues of the plants, I'd be out of 

business within a week should somebody open a discount vitamin shop filled 

with capsules of 33 year old echinacea leaf.  And the laws that govern 

making herbal preparations are outragious... all designed to incur permits 

and fees and costs that make small scale production impossible.  Why would I 

need a state liscensed commercial kitchen to make saint john's wort oil in a 

mason jar out in the sun?  Or goldenrod tincture out in a feild?  Granted, a 

stainless steel counter would be nice for cleaning up spills when I'm 

filling bottles but I don't know why the state should need to liscense 

that...



So I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the key is education.  We 

need to teach, so there are more herbalists available and more people making 

stuff of their own for thier own use, and more voices to speak for our 

craft.  The reason, after all, that we're in this bind is because ignorance 

prevails.  People don't know because for a generation or two, the teaching 

was lost.  the use of herbs need to return to the public knowledge, it isn't 

meant to be held by just us herbalists.  We're for more complex problems, 

and to help explain ideas and concepts.  One of my goals is for everybody I 

know to learn how to use plantain for bites stings and minor wounds.  At 

every one of my classes, I tell people that if they learn one thing, its 

that rubbing fresh plantain leaves on their mosquito bites will probably 

make them disappear within the day (the other "one thing" they're supposed 

to learn is what poison ivy looks like).



If people have a rudimetary, working knowledge of herbs, they won't seem so 

foriegn or potentially dangerous.  The average person though, thinks about 

herbs and they think about ephedrine based weight loss shit, and they 

probably know somebody whose had some sort of hypertensive reaction to it, 

so they feel like herbs are something they need to be wary of, right off the 

bat.  So when the goverment says they want to ensure the consumers safety, 

the consumer is all over that, they think its great.  But if the consumer 

was educated, even a little, in herbs, and they saw their usage of them 

restricted, they'd want to keep the goverment out of it.  So the goverment 

is one problem, but public ingorance is the root cause.  Just like any 

health probl;em, if we want to remove the acute problem, we have to resolve 

the conditions causing it.



So we, as plant people, need to educate, we need to teach.  Those of us who 

have a strong back ground need to offer classes and workshops and the like 

in our communities, and those who know a little bit need to share what they 

do know and seek out what they don't (please don't share what you don't 

know...).  If you live in a community where herbalists are unavailable, 

research till you find the one closest to you and see if they'll come out 

and teach a class, or offer a program, or direct you to someone who will.   

Most of us are struggling to make a living, and we can only do that if we're 

supported by our communities.  This won't be so expensive if you pull from 

people near you, and don't have to cover someones travel, food and lodging 

because they're from far away.  Or start an "herbal book club"; read books 

and then learn to make salves or grow nettles for tea together.  If you get 

a group of interested people together, everything becomes easier.



One of the things I've dove into is getting together a gathering of 

herbalists here in michigan.  Its amazing both how few of us there are, and 

also that I've found a few nearby I never knew of.  If an herbalist in every 

state tried to do the same thing, then when people wanted to find an 

herbalist, there'd be a place to look for one near you.  And for us, we can 

(hopefully) come together and perhaps figure out how we can support each 

other and collectively make life easier for us all.



anyways, another rant you all.  Teach somebody about plantian for me...



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Sat May 10 22:09:14 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] laws and herbs

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 14:09:14 -0500



 <<And the laws that govern

making herbal preparations are outrageous... all designed to incur

permits and fees and costs that make small scale production

impossible.<<



Hmm, I hope I'm not way too naive but I am in the process of building a 

certified kitchen and have done the research in my state (Missouri) and

it isn't that big of a deal.  Smooth, wipable surfaces, 3 sinks and they

check your process out to make sure your not picking your nose and

sticking your finger in the tincture while processing ;0)Granted, it is

ridiculous that they put tincturing on the same level as an all out

restaurant with the same requirements but it could be worse, they could

require a lab.  Another option is to find a restaurant that will let you

use their kitchen in the off hours.  Usually this would be in the middle

of the night or very early, your health dept would have to make special

efforts to check you out and could never just 'drop in' cause they would

never know when you were going to be there.  Some have suggested using a

restaurant kitchen and still tincturing in the field.  Only going to the

kitchen on occasion to bottle, sterilize, etc.  Good or bad, I don't

know....  Point is that there are ways around the restrictions (not that

this makes them OK).  I have an online business that for now only sells

topical remedies.  In my state I don't have to have a certified kitchen

for 'cosmetics'.  I have no reason to sell most of the herbs that are

considered 'unsafe' by the fda except for comfrey on some occasions and

all of them are topical.  When I do start selling tinctures, I will keep

them simple with no remedies that will put me at risk.  Also, my

understanding of the regulations is that you can put together dry tea

and infusion blends without a certified kitchen if you buy the herbs

bulk and simply re-package them since there is no 'processing' involved.



I have the same dream/vision of a farm with an apothecary/shop and to

teach.  I think that it will happen and will be successful. (It helps to

have a carpenter for a husband so my costs won't be as high.)   I'll

have to have you come as a guest teacher Jim!



Be well,

Erica



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Sat May 10 23:35:15 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] kidney/bone AND credentials...

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 16:35:15 -0400



>Ther is some definite and fascinating mechanism of early evolutionary

>biology that links the kidneys to the bone.  Assuuming adequate iron stores

>and eryhtropoetin, RBC production can rise to 10 or more times normal: WHY 

>?

>Was it evolved to combat possible blood loss in the injured or was it a

>means of necessarily accelerated maturity in the move from ocean to land?

>Those organisms that couldn't ramp up blood cell production died off (or

>decided to hang out in the ocean) The erythrocytes or RBCs carrying oxygen

>as part of the tidal surf...???



wow...



Here's some new credentials:



Myron Hardesty, E.H.

(Evolutionary Herbalist)



From phosphor.hotkey.net.au Sun May 11 07:56:39 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] kidney/bone AND credentials...

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor.hotkey.net.au>

Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 07:56:39 +0300



Jim writes:

<There is some definite and fascinating mechanism of early evolutionary

biology that links the kidneys to the bone.  Assuuming adequate iron stores

and eryhtropoetin, RBC production can rise to 10 or more times normal>



under what circumstances does this happen?



Andrew



From rochelle.ntlworld.com Sun May 11 00:35:30 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Lobelia and breastfeeding

From: "Rochelle Marsden" <rochelle.ntlworld.com>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 22:35:30 +0100



I have prescribed 5 drops of Lobelia tincture 3 x a day to a breastfeeding

mother. Will this amount get through the milk to the baby?



Regards,

Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Sun May 11 02:22:07 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Lobelia and breastfeeding

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:22:07 -0400



>I have prescribed 5 drops of Lobelia tincture 3 x a day to a breastfeeding

>mother. Will this amount get through the milk to the baby?



while I don't know for sure, my guess would be that if it did, the child 

would refuse to nurse.  Lobelia is pretty acrid, a flavor babies wouldn't 

care for.  An idea would be to have her take the tincture AFTER nursing, so 

this would be less of a concern.



From drkelly.icdc.com Sun May 11 14:15:58 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] promotion.

From: drkelly.icdc.com

Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 14:15:58 US/Eastern



<Those of us who have a strong back ground need to offer classes and workshops 

and the like in our communities, and those who know >



Try networking with chiropractors, nurses, massage therapists, estheticians, 

beauticians, people involved with obstetrics, and holistic minded general 

medical people.  Then there's guest teaching in biology classes in schools or 

one day non credit courses in local colleges.  I used to teach at a community 

college and an elementary school science class; brought my spine on a string 

and x-rays; good for public relations.  My community center allows free space 

for lectures; some libraries do, too, and actually promote your class. 



Use a heading such as "home remedies for headaches and other things that ail 

you." Make it something that people can relate to, not "Herbs for 

everyone"......too general.  Ask your friends and relatives if they know a 

place you can set up a talk.



Keeping your costs down....If you don't have a web page, get one.  Most isp's 

give free space. Make page headings, "Insomnia", "Arthritis", etc., 

(searchable subjects) with your city in the title, giving background on 

causes.   I use "Chiropractor Philadelphia" and "Philadelphia Chiropractor" 

(although my pages are now resting till I get time to tend to them).  Found a 

few good patients that way and they were already educated about what I do 

before the first appointment.  



Network with your peers.  Since there are over 200 listers, you can start one 

off this list, everyone writing something with a searchable list of ailments 

and practitioners by city.



Most of you have good signatures; add a location.  I like the 

signature, "Sharon in Tucson";  every time I come out here to Arizona I think 

about her.



Since self promotion is very difficult for some artists (kinda like not being 

able to sell their own paintings but could sell for someone else) the web 

allows for another way to at least get people to know you are alive and to 

call you.  



To begin, just go through your phone book and email address list and ask 

everyone you know for sources. LK



From cmaria.triton.net Sun May 11 20:20:37 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] harbalist gathering

From: Christa-Maria <cmaria.triton.net>

Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:20:37 -0500



Jim,

 Would you please share when that gathering is and where ?

I plan to come with Joyce W. but forgot the dates and felt others might

want to come, too..

C-M



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Mon May 12 03:35:31 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:35:31 -0400



>Does any one know of any gatherings in Michigan



Here's the info on what I'm trying to put together... don't expect a big 

conference... this is basically an opportunity to get us together in a room 

and talk about ideas and areas of mutual concern, share info and 

esperiences, & get to know who each other is... very few of us know very 

many of the rest of us, I think (and maybe we'll tell bad herb jokes, like 

"Do you know what species of Avens that is?"   "hmm... Geum Idunno...").



Any furthur inquiries can be made to me off list.



Michigan/Great Lakes Herbalist Gathering

July 25th, 26th & 27th (Friday evening through Sunday afternoon)



Bald Mountain State Recreation Area in Lake Orion (SE Michigan)

For a map there:

www.michigandnr.com/parksandtrails/ParksandTrailsInfo.asp?id=435



There are cabins that sleep 20, in bunks, but no running water and no 

electricity.  The park is beautiful, and we'll be taking an herb walk and 

having lots of discussions and brainstorming.



Jim

(248) 737-3589

multiflorum.hotmail.com



From herbgatherer.hotmail.com Mon May 12 14:17:35 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering

From: "pamela quayle" <herbgatherer.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 07:17:35 -0400



If anyone in the NE US is looking for a networking group we have the 

Northeast Herbal Assn with an annual retreat and good newsletter with 

opportunity to advertise educational programs, etc.  We are encouraging 

local networking groups within the organization as well.  Here's the 

website:

http://http://www.northeastherbal.org/



Pamela



From mccoy.newsguy.com Tue May 13 00:45:12 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering

From: Anya <mccoy.newsguy.com>

Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:45:12 -0400



At 07:17 AM 5/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>If anyone in the NE US is looking for a networking group we have the

Northeast Herbal Assn with an annual retreat and good newsletter with

opportunity to advertise educational programs, etc.  We are encouraging

local networking groups within the organization as well.  Here's the website: 

>http://http://www.northeastherbal.org/

>

>Pamela



That sounds wonderful -- so nice to have a regional group.



Here in Florida, I fear we are few and far between, and the herbs are so

different down here, well, the medicinal plants -- it is hard to figure out

'what's what.' If there are any Florida-based herbalists, please let me

know.

Anya

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

(c)



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Tue May 13 01:56:21 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:56:21 -0500



Hi. I would love to find a herbalist group here in East Texas. Please email 

me if ya know of any.

Linda S.



From SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net Tue May 13 13:19:01 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering

From: "Robert Linde" <SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 07:19:01 -0300



Hi Anya,

I'm just finishing TCM school and really focused on herbs and my wife is

almost done with M Tierra's planetary herbs course. We are in St. Pete and

about to open a clinic with acupuncturist, herbalist, tai chi and lifestyle

classes.

Bob

----- Original Message -----

From: "Anya" <mccoy.newsguy.com>

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 6:45 PM

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering



At 07:17 AM 5/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>If anyone in the NE US is looking for a networking group we have the

Northeast Herbal Assn with an annual retreat and good newsletter with



From mterry.snet.net Tue May 13 16:06:14 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 06:06:14 -0700 (PDT)



--- Robert Linde <SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net>

wrote:

> Hi Anya,

> I'm just finishing TCM school and really focused on

> herbs and my wife is

> almost done with M Tierra's planetary herbs course.

> We are in St. Pete



Hi Bob,



Where is "St. Pete"?



May



From sarahflemming.earthlink.net Tue May 13 16:17:22 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering

From: Sarah Flemming <sarahflemming.earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:17:22 -0400



St. Petersburg, Florida, U. S. A.



At 09:06 AM Tuesday 5/13/2003, you wrote:

>--- Robert Linde <SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net>

>wrote:

> > Hi Anya,

> > I'm just finishing TCM school and really focused on

> > herbs and my wife is

> > almost done with M Tierra's planetary herbs course.

> > We are in St. Pete

>

>Hi Bob,

>

>Where is "St. Pete"?



From SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net Tue May 13 21:19:49 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering

From: "Robert Linde" <SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:19:49 -0300



St. Petersburg Florida, we are on the west coast of Florida, near

Tampa/Clearwater

b

----- Original Message -----

From: "May Terry" <mterry.snet.net>

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 10:06 AM

Subject: Re: [herb] herbalist gathering



--- Robert Linde <SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net>

wrote:

> Hi Anya,

> I'm just finishing TCM school and really focused on

> herbs and my wife is

> almost done with M Tierra's planetary herbs course.

> We are in St. Pete



Hi Bob,



Where is "St. Pete"?



May



From wdsofedn.bellsouth.net Mon May 12 17:37:33 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] spleen venting 

From: myron <wdsofedn.bellsouth.net>

Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:37:33 +0900



<There is some definite and fascinating mechanism of early evolutionary

biology that links the kidneys to the bone.  Assuuming adequate iron stores

and eryhtropoetin, RBC production can rise to 10 or more times normal>



under what circumstances does this happen? -Andrew



Apparently in response to low oxygen environments such as high altitudes or

in clinical conditions in which the tissues are getting starved of oxygen as

in cardiac failure (also thyrotoxicosis and severe pulmonary distress).

Hypoxia. I am not saying however that the body WOULD manufacture 10 times

normal in such cases, merely speculating why it may yet have the ability.

Again, I am wondering if there is some evolutionary carryover demanding

massive access to oxygen reserve or manufacture.  During gestation

apparently the spleen is performing some of this blood-building ability when

the bones aren't up to snuff.  In fact, in some animals this ability extends

well beyond birth when oxygen consumption rates are higher than the bones

can provide. The spleen is a red blood cell reservoir with

hyper-hemoconcentration and an increased oxygen carrying capacity. During

fight or flight stress, with increased fuel and oxygen demand at the

tissues, not only does the liver dump glucose (as with humans) but the

spleen contracts under beta-adrenergic stimulation and dumps all that

hemoglobin rich blood into circulation. Apparently humans don't need this

mechanism anymore sending the spleen on the way to vestigialism (if one

IGNORES all its endogenous anti-bacterial action and red blood cell

filtration - which is I guess what might happen on the way to splenectomy)

BTW, went to Peru earlier this year and witnessed this massive production of

hemoglobin face to face.

Literally! High up in the Andes in the town of Willoq, a resplendent textile

community.  The ruddy complexion was common to everyone living at that

altitude:



http://www.astro.umd.edu/~vogel/peru/Dick/Willoq/sm_11727-Peruvian_Child.htm

l



Apparently this is considered a "secondary" polycythemia referring to

increased production of RBCs to accomodate oxygen demands (and would be

reflected in a higher hemoglobin/hematocrit reading) This is directly

attributable to increased production of aforementioned erythropoetin in the

kidneys. This is also called erythrocytosis. "Erythremia" on the other hand

is a reserved designation for increased blood cell count for no known reason

(as in polycythemia vera).  Now to make sure henriette herb-cop doesn't bust

on me I should mention that after travelling from 350 ft above sea level in

the Amazon to over 11,000 ft in the Andes in the span of 24 hrs I managed

NOT to contract(?) altitude sickness by the simple addition (I think) of I

full ounce alcoholic extract of ganoderma spp (1:5/25%). I also consumed

three tablets of someone elses Gingko biloba, probably standardized. On

reading, the effect of the reishi has to do with oxygenation of the blood

but through an undisclosed (by Hobbes, at least) mechanism (though he does

cite studies where it increases "bone marrow nucleated cell proliferation"

and WBCs and "hematoglobin" whatever that is. This is what I used during

radiation to offset the white blood destruction (a part of fuzheng therapy

in china) Anyway a number of the other people did get sick having to go on

oxygen and even moved to a lower elevation.  I felt fine.  Can anyone tell

the client with hepatitis c and elevated hemoglobin/hematocrit didn't bother

to show up tonight

Myron, Evolutionary herbalist :)



From joycew.triton.net Mon May 12 20:25:53 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] manufacturing laws

From: joycew.triton.net

Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:25:53 -0400 (EDT)



>I am in the process of building a certified kitchen and have done >the research in my state (Missouri) and it isn't that big of a deal. >Smooth, wipable surfaces, 3 sinks and they check your process out to >make sure your not picking your nose and sticking your finger in the >tincture while processing ;0)



Rules vary from state to state - and from your local inspectors intrepretation of those rules.



In Michigan, the entire state is zoned as an agricultural state (thanks to the cherry growers consortium) and the rules are strict - and enforced. You need to have a separate facility with health department approved well and septic (or city sewer).... for starters.  You can convert an extra room in your house into a second kitchen - as long as it is completely separate from home use (and that means separate well and septic as well, according to our health inspector).  



In addition, our district state inspector can demand third party data on the shelf life of any products you sell.... for each and every product (and he does).



Now, I hear in New Mexico, you can just about make your products outside.... sigh



>Granted, it is ridiculous that they put tincturing on the same level >as an all out restaurant with the same requirements but it could be >worse, they could require a lab. 



I suggest you read the proposed FDA guidelines for manufacturing of supplements.  Their stated purpose of the guidelines is to be be sure that what is stated on the label is inside the bottle.  In order to comply, a manufacturer of product will need to have an objective means to verify product content - either through their own testing or have it independently verified by a third party.... for each and every batch of product you make.  Course, they are being generous, and giving the small manufacturer (ie: less than 100 employees) 3 years to comply.



These proposed guidelines are getting very little bru-ha-ha, as they are to protect the consumer.  Who they really protect are the large pharmaceutical houses from upstart competition.  If they really want to protect me - well, I'd be really safe if I was in a straight jacket - couldn't hit myself upside the head anymore.

JoyceW



From Foxhillers.aol.com Mon May 12 21:16:05 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] manufacturing laws

From: Foxhillers.aol.com

Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:16:05 EDT



In a message dated 5/12/03 1:28:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

joycew.triton.net writes:



> You need to have a separate facility with health department approved well 

> and septic (or city sewer).... for starters.  You can convert an extra room 

> in your house into a second kitchen - as long as it is completely separate 

> from home use (and that means separate well and septic as well, according 

> to our health inspector).  

> 



    In this part of Michigan, there are any number of small caterers and cake 

bakers with licensed in home/separate room operations...... I do not think 

ANY of them were required to have separate wells and septic systems.



mjh



From mt_turtle.email.com Tue May 13 00:39:57 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] manufacturing laws

From: "K B" <mt_turtle.email.com>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 06:39:57 +0900



<snip> do not think ANY of them were required to have separate wells and septic systems.<snip>



One problem is that you are pretty much at the mercy of your local inspector.  Different inspecter will interpret vauge wording different ways.  I have seen it in action (not me).  And if you dare to go over his head for an appeal - whooa unto you each inspection time! Talk about nit picking!



Here in TN you must have a separate room also.  can not use the production kitchen for meals, etc.  Different refrigerator, different stove, etc.  Also must have an entrance directly from the outside into the room.  No supplies can pass through another room on its way to the kitchen (unless said other room is a "shipping and recieving" room used only for that purpose and connected directly to the kitchen.  Must have a diswasher with sterilizer cycle not used for non production purposes, must have 3 hole sink, sink has to be open below (no under cabinet}. And more.  They treat you like a commercial resturant.  It is very costly for someone doing in part time or just getting started...

KB

 



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 13 17:20:26 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] sweet woodruff

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:20:26 -0400



I use Cleavers quite a bit, but so far never Sweet Woodruff (aside form a 

couple batches of May Wine... hic!).  Anybody use this one, and would like 

to compare contrast to Cleavers or enlighten me with thier experiences?



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Tue May 13 21:18:14 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:18:14 -0500



I wonder what you use cleavers for? I read that it is a good lymphatic.  

Would you mind to elaborate on that please.

Linda S.



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Tue May 13 22:29:43 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:29:43 -0400



Ive heard Cleavers is specific for eczema that shows up in creases behind

the knees, arms, etc...



I have not personally tried it- although I am going to tincture it this

year.



Do people use different Galiums for different things?



Michelle



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 13 23:17:17 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:17:17 -0400



>I wonder what you use cleavers for? I read that it is a good lymphatic.  

>Would you mind to elaborate on that please.



Cleavers acts on the liver, gently stimulating bile production and aiding in 

metabolism; its "areas of expertise" are in treating ailments of the kidneys 

and improving the functioning of the lymphatic system.  Lymph is the watery 

portion of the blood, the portion which bathes the cells, supplying 

nutrients and removing wastes.  The lymphatic system is crucial in immune 

health, as it stores the "memory" of previously encountered viruses and 

bacteria, and remembers the appropriate antibodies, should they ever return. 

  It also brings the nutrition to the cells, and picks up metabolic wastes.  

This waste then passes through a series of lymph vessels.  When several of 

these channels meet, we have lymph nodes, commonly referred to as "glands" 

(as in "ah, your glands are swollen").  The tonsils are the most famous 

lymph nodes, but others are located under the arms, in the groin, and behind 

the chin beneath the ears.



When the immune system is fighting an illness, the lymph system is very busy 

cleaning up after all the dead bacteria, in addition to its work removing 

metabolic debris... and since we're not moving around a whole lot when we're 

sick, and movement is what allows the lymph to circulate, its easy for 

stagnation to occur.  Often, if it gets "overloaded", metabolic debris 

accumulates, and we get swollen glands.  Cleavers acts as a lymphatic 

decongestant to flush this debris from the lymph nodes.  It is the ideal 

herbs for treating tonsillitis and swollen glands, and can be combined with 

Echinacea for this purpose.  Cleavers is an incredibly safe and gentle 

plant, and completely safe for children.  GENTLE... Cleavers.  For a 

stronger effect, combine with Echinacea, Red Root, a little bit of Poke... I 

just treated a 60 some year old woman who got really, reakky bad swollen 

glands under one ear.  Her Doctor gave her... hell, why can't I remembre the 

name of the Anthrax antibiotic?   Anyway, that one, saying it would help 

"if" there was an infection.  It wouldn't, though have done anything for the 

lymohatic stagnation.  Echinacea, (mostly) Cleavers, Burdock Seed & a bit of 

Poke Root cleared the problem up quite well.



The affinity of Cleavers for the lymphatic system carries into its 

usefulness for the kidneys and urinary system; once the metabolic debris is 

cleaned out of the lymphatics, it needs to be excreted.  As a diuretic, 

Cleavers increases the volume of the urine, flushing these wastes out of the 

body.  Cleavers will help when urination is scanty and the urine is dark, 

and accompanied by recurring urinary tract infections or a burning sensation 

in the bladder or ureters; "scalding urine" as it used to be called, or 

dysuria: painful urination.  It is also indicated for "turbid" urine or 

kidney stones... but be real: Cleavers ain't gonna touch kidney stones 

you're in the process of passing... by itself.  Its best used to prevent 

recurrance if you're predicposed.  Burdock seed would be good in addition.  

Anyways, a bit of useful info is that you shouldn't ~ever~ ignore scanty, 

burning urination.  It'll clear up a lot better if its addressed 

immediately, as opposed to waiting for it to develope furthur.



Cleavers is also associated with skin problems, specifically those of a dry, 

chaffed nature.  we herbalists, of course, believe that these problems arise 

from innefficient metabolism and liver disorders.  To treat these, the 

~consistant, long term~ use of nourishing alteratives is indicated.  

"Alteratives" act slowly in myriad ways to restore balance to metabolic 

functions.  Cleavers, specifically, helps restore and balance watery fluids 

(as does Chickweed); other herbs like Burdock Seed (they go good together), 

do the same for oily secretions.  Both fluids most be balanced to supply the 

skin with adeqaute moisture & lubrication.



Most herbalists believe that Cleavers rapidly loses effectiveness when 

dried, so it should be gathered and tinctured while fresh to preserve its 

virtues.  Or, an herbal "succus" can be created by running the fresh plant 

through a wheat grass juicer and preserving the juice with 25% alcohol.  God 

knows why Herbpharm uses dried Cleavers... they should know better...



From hetta.spamcop.net Tue May 13 23:27:45 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 23:27:45 +0300



jim mcdonald wrote:



> Most herbalists believe that Cleavers rapidly loses effectiveness when

> dried, so it should be gathered and tinctured while fresh to preserve its

> virtues.  Or, an herbal "succus" can be created by running the fresh plant

> through a wheat grass juicer and preserving the juice with 25% alcohol. 

> God knows why Herbpharm uses dried Cleavers... they should know better...



Dunno - I use dried cleavers (and dried yellow bedstraw - Galium verum) and it 

just works. Teas, that is - I do lots of teas, and the occasional tincture, 

with my clients.



Shrug. Have you tried dried cleavers? Note, my cleavers usually doesn't last 

the year -- if I have it, I give it, and generally have none left in February 

or March or so.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 13 23:37:51 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:37:51 -0400



>Dunno - I use dried cleavers (and dried yellow bedstraw - Galium verum) and 

>it

>just works. Teas, that is - I do lots of teas, and the occasional tincture,

>with my clients.

>

>Shrug. Have you tried dried cleavers? Note, my cleavers usually doesn't 

>last

>the year -- if I have it, I give it, and generally have none left in 

>February

>or March or so.



I compared a batch of fresh cleaver tincture to an older batch of dried 

cleaver tincture, and the fresh seemed to be just so much more... vibrant.  

Perhaps my older batch was too old?  Maybe it was three years, or maybe just 

two.  I guess I can't say one worked better than the other, but I could 

taste which one I liked more, and it was the fresh.  ...and I use mostly 

tinctures, so who knows.  Probably just preference.



And I almost always use my alteratives in combination.  Do you go "neat"?



From hetta.spamcop.net Tue May 13 23:43:37 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 23:43:37 +0300



jim mcdonald wrote:



> And I almost always use my alteratives in combination.  Do you go "neat"?



Formula. With the rest of the herbs they need.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From Herbmednurse.aol.com Thu May 29 02:33:41 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] cleavers

From: Herbmednurse.aol.com

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:33:41 EDT



we've found a treasure trove of cleavers in the woods that bound our farm.  

I've found conflicting information as to the best way to use it in 

preparations.  Any sage advice?

thanks!



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 29 08:28:39 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:28:39 +0300



Herbmednurse.aol.com wrote:

> we've found a treasure trove of cleavers in the woods that bound our farm.

> I've found conflicting information as to the best way to use it in

> preparations.  Any sage advice?



Tea.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From liveoak.ozarkisp.net/ Thu May 29 14:53:30 2003

To: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: "Bob" <liveoak.ozarkisp.net/>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 06:53:30 -0500



I've found out that cleavers has an 

excellent life support system for 

Chiggers, as it grows older. I waited to 

seeding time before picking it. What is 

the time to gather the herb? Thanks



> Herbmednurse.aol.com wrote:

> > we've found a treasure trove of 

cleavers in the woods that bound our farm.

> > ,,,,,,



Regards,



Bob



"In God We Trust"



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 29 16:07:20 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:07:20 -0400



>Herbmednurse.aol.com wrote:

> > we've found a treasure trove of cleavers in the woods that bound our 

>farm.

> > I've found conflicting information as to the best way to use it in

> > preparations.  Any sage advice?

>

>Tea.

>

>Henriette



Go figure for differences, but I only use the fresh plant.  There was an 

extensive post I wrote on Cleavers a few weeks ago, which you could access 

in the archives.



From HerbsAcadiana.aol.com Thu May 29 16:48:14 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: HerbsAcadiana.aol.com

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:48:14 EDT



I use it as a fresh vegetable.  In Louisiana it comes up in January so it's a 

nice winter green.



Cook like spinach.



Henrietta (Traiteusse)



From joycew.triton.net Thu May 29 19:23:23 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] cleavers

From: joycew.triton.net

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:23:23 -0400 (EDT)



>we've found a treasure trove of cleavers in the woods that bound our >farm. I've found conflicting information as to the best way to use >it in preparations. Any sage advice?



In addition to tea and spinach greens - cleavers make a dandy in-the-field seive.  Just mat a handful together and pour your needing to be strained liquid through.



For medicinal out of season use preserve them by tincture

Peace

JocyeW



From Herbmednurse.aol.com Sat May 31 00:51:51 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: Herbmednurse.aol.com

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:51:51 EDT



In a message dated 5/29/03 11:23:46 AM, joycew.triton.net writes:



<< For medicinal out of season use preserve them by tincture

Peace

JocyeW >>



hi joyce,

this is what i'd like to do - Tilford recommends tincturing fresh 1:2 in 50% 

alcohol.

anybody have other ideas?  much of what I've read say that dried isn't much 

use....



From hetta.spamcop.net Sat May 31 10:02:18 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:02:18 +0300



Herbmednurse.aol.com wrote:



> this is what i'd like to do - Tilford recommends tincturing fresh 1:2 in

> 50% alcohol.

> anybody have other ideas?  much of what I've read say that dried isn't much

> use....



I do tea. I keep two dried and cut up Galium species in the same jar, and the 

tea works beautifully. 



Now, do any species besides "sticky" galiums (cleavers, Galium aparine and 

close relatives) and Ladies' bedstraw (Galium verum) work?



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From Melesana.aol.com Sat May 31 01:01:18 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] cleavers

From: Melesana.aol.com

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:01:18 EDT



In a message dated 5/30/03 2:52:42 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 

Herbmednurse.aol.com writes:



> much of what I've read say that dried isn't much 

> use....

> 



It's worth trying, though, because it might be useful to you.  I tincture 

mine dried, and use it to help with swollen lymph nodes.  It works for me.



Meg Umans



From tassbaby.senet.com.au Thu May 15 15:03:18 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Natural Health Site

From: "Kirsty Tassell" <tassbaby.senet.com.au>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:33:18 +0930



There was a really good information site - natural health link - that

combined information of conventional and alternative (including

herbal!!) treatments of various health disorders. It was a

"practitioner" only site, but in the last few weeks, I have not been

able to access it. Does any one know what's happened to it? Or are there

other sites that people find useful?

 



From rochelle.ntlworld.com Thu May 15 19:26:57 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Lavender

From: "Rochelle Marsden" <rochelle.ntlworld.com>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:26:57 +0100



Excuse my ignorance but is it the leaves, flowers or both you use to make

lavender tea?



Regards

Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 15 20:06:14 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Lavender

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:06:14 +0300



Rochelle Marsden wrote:



> Excuse my ignorance but is it the leaves, flowers or both you use to make

> lavender tea?



Flowers, flowering tops, leaves - whatever. All of them taste of lavender, 

and therefore all of them taste of perfume.



It doesn't even matter what species you use - L. angustifolia, dentata, 

spicata etc., they're all the same.



Of course, when I've first told a class about the taste and then gone on to 

actually make a tea of lavender or rose flowers, far too often I get a 

collective "yum - can I have more?" in return. And I have no idea if they're 

serious or if they're just mocking me. Yech. ;)



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From phoenix.phoenixrc.com Thu May 15 21:48:04 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Lavender

From: Phoenix <phoenix.phoenixrc.com>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:48:04 -0400



> Of course, when I've first told a class about the taste and then gone on to

> actually make a tea of lavender or rose flowers, far too often I get a

> collective "yum - can I have more?" in return. And I have no idea if they're

> serious or if they're just mocking me. Yech. ;)



I had some rose Turkish delight (brought fresh from Turkey so it was nice & soft

not old & stale like we usually get here) and it was yummy.



You can use rose petals as flavoring?  Do they have any other particular

benefit?  Having just shot off an email asking a friend for some ideas for the

roses that are blooming by our back door this seems like one of those

synchronicity things :)



Phoenix



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 15 23:19:32 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Lavender

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:19:32 +0300



Phoenix wrote:



> You can use rose petals as flavoring?  Do they have any other particular

> benefit? 



Roses "lift the spirit". I use them for depression, insomnia, things like 

that. 



But a tea would be too much to ask of clients - if it tastes ghastly, chances 

are they won't take it. They're usually quite happy with a tincture, though. 



I use flowers or flowerbuds only, the green parts are just Yet Another Rose 

Family Astringent.



And of course - non-sprayed roses only. 

Also, the stronger the scent the stronger the action. Damascena is very good, 

as is rugosa.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From phoenix.phoenixrc.com Fri May 16 09:24:38 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Lavender

From: Phoenix <phoenix.phoenixrc.com>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 02:24:38 -0400



Henriette Kress wrote:

> 

> Phoenix wrote:

> 

> > You can use rose petals as flavoring?  Do they have any other particular

> > benefit?

> 

> Roses "lift the spirit". I use them for depression, insomnia, things like

> that.



Hmmm....it put me right to sleep! :)  I had to try it twice to get a strong

enough flavor so I did have two largish cups then a nice nap on the couch til

the phone started ringing and the dog started barking.



> But a tea would be too much to ask of clients - if it tastes ghastly, chances

> are they won't take it. They're usually quite happy with a tincture, though.



Ah, well, I liked the flavor.  The rose flavor is mild enough that I would think

you could add it to a mix of other things and barely taste it.  I haven't tried

making my own tinctures yet, I suppose that's the next step.



> 

> I use flowers or flowerbuds only, the green parts are just Yet Another Rose

> Family Astringent.

> 

> And of course - non-sprayed roses only.

> Also, the stronger the scent the stronger the action. Damascena is very good,

> as is rugosa.



Ick.  I don't use herbicides and haven't needed pesticides yet and it drives my

neighbors nuts because they don't understand.  The guys on either side of us are

into that weed free lawn.  (I do pay attention to where their spray goes and

it's noticeable since it kills off the clover in our yard if they over spray.) 

I tried to explain to one of them I didn't like the idea of spraying poison on

the lawn especially since I (and now the new dog) walk around barefoot on it. 

He gave me a blank look and said "But it washes off when it rains".  "Yeah,

right into the water table."  Besides, I like the dandelions, I think they look

cheerful :)



Thanks for the info, Henriette.  I love this list, people are just full of good

stuff they're willing to share and everyone seems very patient with newbies like

me.



Phoenix



From Foxhillers.aol.com Thu May 15 22:04:08 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Lavender

From: Foxhillers.aol.com

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:04:08 EDT



   These are quite refined flavors and may be too subtle for most American 

palates.  Another one I enjoy is rose geranium as a seasoning and as a tea 

served with a nice lemonbalm laced pound cake.

   Rose petal tea is nice with meringues......



mjh



In a message dated 5/15/03 2:48:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

phoenix.phoenixrc.com writes:



>  Of course, when I've first told a class about the taste and then gone on to

> > actually make a tea of lavender or rose flowers, far too often I get a

> > collective "yum - can I have more?" in return. And I have no idea if 

> they're

> > serious or if they're just mocking me. Yech. ;)

> 

> I had some rose Turkish delight (brought fresh from Turkey so it was nice & 

> soft

> not old & stale like we usually get here) and it was yummy.

> 

> You can use rose petals as flavoring?  Do they have any other particular

> benefit?  Having just shot off an email asking a friend for some ideas for 

> the

> roses that are blooming by our back door this seems like one of those

> synchronicity things :)

> 

> 



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 15 23:33:59 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Lavender

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:33:59 -0400



>    These are quite refined flavors and may be too subtle for most American

>palates.  Another one I enjoy is rose geranium as a seasoning and as a tea

>served with a nice lemonbalm laced pound cake.

>    Rose petal tea is nice with meringues......



I'm still recovering from the rose flavored betel nuts I tried what... 6 

years ago?  Perhaps longer.  Even two hours later, my head was still one big 

rose.  I wondered how I was supposed to tell what the Betel was doing?  Its 

left me with a pretty strong aversion to rose petals... (I like her hips 

better anyways... he he...)



A year or so ago, though, I tried a variety of betel chew called Supari.  

That was awful, too... kind of like sucking on potpourri.  What a shame I 

can't try the real thing, wiith just the nuts, piper betel leaf and a bit of 

lime... no addition flavoring.  Third times the charm, isn't it?



From eksommer.gator.net Sun May 18 18:08:38 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Lavender

From: "E K Sommer" <eksommer.gator.net>

Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:08:38 -0400



While this thread about lavender is still fresh, I'd like to mention a

combination I stumbled on one evening when I was restless and could not

sleep. I brewed a tea of oat tops, lavender, and chamomile. I had the

wildest dreams. I tried it again a few nights later to see if it was a

coincidence. It happened again. I gave some to a few friends to see if they

had similar results. They did. I then tried it three nights in a row and

observed that the effects wore off on the third night. So my empirical

conclusion is that is seems to work for inducing dreams if used now and

again. And, of course, it had the desired result of calming my mind so that

I could fall asleep.



The taste is passable. I think the chamomile overpowers the lavender a bit

and the oats take the edge off the bitterness of the lavender. I only steep

about 20 minutes, otherwise in my experience flowers with heavy volatile

oils become very bitter.



Ellie



Eleanor K. Sommer

Gainesville FL 32641

eksommer.gator.net



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 15 23:24:20 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:24:20 +0300



Foxhillers.aol.com wrote:



>    These are quite refined flavors and may be too subtle for most American

> palates.  Another one I enjoy is rose geranium as a seasoning and as a tea

> served with a nice lemonbalm laced pound cake.

>    Rose petal tea is nice with meringues......



Rose geranium (Pelargonium whatever 'Attar of Roses') makes a stronger rose 

tincture than the best of roses ... and I use it as such. 



Lemon-scented geraniums (Pelargonium whatever - there's _lots_) are for all 

practical purposes identical with lemon balm - also gently anti-depressant 

and calming. And I use them as such.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From joanr.shaw.ca Thu May 15 23:51:41 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Joan <joanr.shaw.ca>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:51:41 -0700



On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 01:24  PM, Henriette Kress wrote:

>

> Rose geranium (Pelargonium whatever 'Attar of Roses') makes a stronger 

> rose

> tincture than the best of roses ... and I use it as such.

> Lemon-scented geraniums (Pelargonium whatever - there's _lots_) are 

> for all

> practical purposes identical with lemon balm - also gently 

> anti-depressant

> and calming. And I use them as such.



Henriette, I was wondering how you dry the scented geraniums.  I have 

air dried lemon geranium and it always turns yellow although the lemon 

scent is still very strong.   I wonder if I use my electric dehydrator 

on very low if that would work?



Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 16 07:35:52 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:35:52 +0300



Joan wrote:



> Henriette, I was wondering how you dry the scented geraniums.  I have

> air dried lemon geranium and it always turns yellow although the lemon

> scent is still very strong.



I don't care about color in my dried scented geraniums - I care about taste. 

That fades too, though - your best bet is to chop up the fresh leaves and 

freeze them.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From Foxhillers.aol.com Fri May 16 00:27:17 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Foxhillers.aol.com

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:27:17 EDT



In a message dated 5/15/03 4:54:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joanr.shaw.ca 

writes:



> On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 01:24  PM, Henriette Kress wrote:

> >

> > Rose geranium (Pelargonium whatever 'Attar of Roses') makes a stronger 

> > rose

> > tincture than the best of roses ... and I use it as such.

> > Lemon-scented geraniums (Pelargonium whatever - there's _lots_) are 

> > for all

> > practical purposes identical with lemon balm - also gently 

> > anti-depressant

> > and calming. And I use them as such.

> 

> Henriette, I was wondering how you dry the scented geraniums.  I have 

> air dried lemon geranium and it always turns yellow although the lemon 

> scent is still very strong.   I wonder if I use my electric dehydrator 

> on very low if that would work?

> 

> Joan

> My Country Garden

> http://www.mycountrygarden.net

> 



Joan

   The fragrance is in the leaves not in the color......

mjh



From joanr.shaw.ca Fri May 16 08:36:49 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Joan <joanr.shaw.ca>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:36:49 -0700



On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 02:27  PM, Foxhillers.aol.com wrote:

>

> Joan

>    The fragrance is in the leaves not in the color......

> mjh



The leaves in a tea blend sure look awful though....that is why I was 

wondering how I could dry them and keep them green.  I realize the 

fragrance is in the leaves and the taste is still there but they turn 

an awful brown/yellow.  Not very practical to freeze them either when I 

make up tea blends to use and to sell....atlhough for at home use I 

will freeze some and also try the dehydrator.  I do use the dehydrator 

on very low for Italian flat parsley too as they retain their colour 

and their taste using this method.  The leaves always turn brown in my 

air drying cabinet.  That is the only herb I dry in the dehydrator - I 

use my large air drying cabinet for everything else.



> Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 16 08:56:07 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:56:07 +0300



Joan wrote:



> >    The fragrance is in the leaves not in the color......

>

> The leaves in a tea blend sure look awful though....that is why I was

> wondering how I could dry them and keep them green.  I realize the



Sure, you can try a dehydrator. I haven't usually bothered (and I don't 

remember the outcome, colorwise, of that); I use up my scented geraniums 

pretty much the week they get their haircut.



Anyway, if you're after good looks in addition to taste, why not go for the 

originals? Rose petals give a very good and very pretty rose taste. Apple 

slices give a very good and rather good-looking apple taste. 

And so on. 

And I've found lemon verbena to give a very good lemony taste - neither taste 

nor color fade on that one. Lemon catmint is another one to try.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress                           Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From joanr.shaw.ca Sat May 17 02:11:45 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Joan <joanr.shaw.ca>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:11:45 -0700



On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 10:56  PM, Henriette Kress wrote:

>

> Anyway, if you're after good looks in addition to taste, why not go 

> for the

> originals? Rose petals give a very good and very pretty rose taste. 

> Apple

> slices give a very good and rather good-looking apple taste.

> And so on. And I've found lemon verbena to give a very good lemony 

> taste - neither taste

> nor color fade on that one. Lemon catmint is another one to try.



Thanks, Henriette.   I do use rose petals (I grow over 100 old garden 

roses <LOL>, I do grow and use lemon verbena, lemon catnip, lemon mint, 

lemon basil, lemon balm.  I like to use all my plants if possible so 

want to figure out a way to use lemon geranium.  I actually haven't 

used apple slices.  I will try that - we grow about 6 different 

varieties of apples here.  I do use Rosa eglanteria (apple scented rose 

leaves) so that would be interesting to combine the two with other 

herbs too.



Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Sat May 17 15:43:17 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 08:43:17 -0400



  I like to use all my plants if possible so

> want to figure out a way to use lemon geranium.



You can put fresh leaves on the bottom of a cake pan before you pour in your

batter~



But I guess this would go under the ~vices~ heading :-)



Michelle



From snielsen.orednet.org Fri May 16 22:07:20 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Susan Nielsen <snielsen.orednet.org>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:07:20 -0700 (PDT)



On Thu, 15 May 2003, Joan wrote:



> The leaves in a tea blend sure look awful though....



Why not enclose a note saying, "These leaves naturally dry to a

wholesome straw color. Nothing artificial has been added to make

them look unnaturally green."



Sell what you got, baby.



Susan

--

Susan Layne Nielsen, Shambles Workshops      	|"...Gently down the

Beavercreek, OR, USA -- snielsen.orednet.org  	|stream..." -- Anon.



From ngbard.juno.com Sat May 17 20:00:25 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:00:25 -0400



lemon geranium... 

You can put fresh leaves on the bottom of a cake pan before you pour in

your

batter~ >But I guess this would go under the ~vices~ heading :-)

>And then again, maybe there are small benefits beyond flavoring?

Marcia



From mccoy.newsguy.com Sun May 18 17:19:29 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Anya <mccoy.newsguy.com>

Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:19:29 -0400



At 01:00 PM 5/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>

>lemon geranium... 

>You can put fresh leaves on the bottom of a cake pan before you pour in

>your

>batter~ >But I guess this would go under the ~vices~ heading :-)

>>And then again, maybe there are small benefits beyond flavoring?

>Marcia



I've never heard of the P. crispum (lemon) leaves being put in the bottom

of a cake pan, and I always thought it was due to their stiff, leathery

texture. I 've heard of -- and used -- rose ones, and peppermint, for

instance, as they easily peel off the cake when done.



The traditional use for lemon geraniums was in finger bowls. A sprig would

be floated in the bowl for scent. No edible uses, unless maybe someone

would boil them in sugar syrup to see if it would flavor the syrup nicely.

Anya

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

(c)



From ngbard.juno.com Sat May 17 22:03:50 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Scented geraniums, was Lavender

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 15:03:50 -0400



lemon geranium, btw, is actually a pelargonium.  There may be herbal

benefits from the pelargonium plant, or from the constituents that give

it a lemony fragrance. It would be nice to have a reference on it.

Some people put one leaf in the bottom of the jar of homemade apple

jelly. It might behave like a spice in food-- a little improves the

overall flavor and too much creates a burning sensation which either

stresses your body into creating endorphins or it is doing harm in other

ways.  Cookbooks from a time when people made their own jellies might

have some good hints on geraniums. 



Another place to look, is Henriette's website, especially:

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic/bpc1911/pelargonium_oleu.html

It is still discussed mainly as a flavoring, but then ....



Marcia



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri May 16 00:04:28 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] vices

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:04:28 -0400



So, anyways, after thinking of betel nuts, which I've yet to experience 

appropriately, I began to ponder my deep interest in the exploration of 

"exquisite botanical curiosties" (know to some in their respective countries 

as "vices").



what's everybody's favorites?



Me, I love a good smoke, quality coffee (mmm... mocha java...), bittersweet 

cocoa, hard cider, absinthe (though, alas, I've only an ounce and a half or 

so in my bottle, and my source all dried up...), and some other 

unmentionables... (mystery adds to intrigue...).



From mpacord.earthlink.net Fri May 16 04:02:06 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Lavender (on a related subject)

From: Michael Acord <mpacord.earthlink.net>

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:02:06 -0700



Can anyone out there recommend a good reference on lavender in general? 

 TYIA.

    Mike Acord



Rochelle Marsden wrote:



>Excuse my ignorance but is it the leaves, flowers or both you use to make

>lavender tea?



From sumar.mail.ifas.ufl.edu Fri May 16 15:20:10 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: vices

From: Susan Marynowski <sumar.mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:20:10 -0400



OK Jim, I'm thinking about my vices now, especially herbal ones. Probably

my worst is chocolate. I like it dark and bitter, the 77% stuff is about

right for me, although I have been know to indulge in baker's squares! I've

also been in a deep relationship with Campari for the past few years. That

is the ~25% alcohol liquor that is an apertif....a bit bitter but also

flavored with pomegranite juice (and sugar, of course). I take it straight

up and it still isn't bitter enough for me, so sometime I add some

angostura bitters. And I guess smoking is a vice, but I don't inhale

directly as much as I fill the entire bathroom (and sometimes the entire

house!) with burning herbs, usually local redcedar, which is what the

natives here used for "smudge." Can't think of eny other herbal vices

unless you count collecting herb books!   

-Susan in North Florida



(Did someone mention a drying cupboard? Hah....here in the humid south you

could grow a very nice mold collection!)



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Fri May 16 15:50:27 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Re: vices

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:50:27 -0500



Mmm-mmm...a good stout organic beer, a glass of good wine, a bit of a

smoke here and there, and bitter chocolate!  Yum!  Oh, and coffee, but

only the good stuff.



Erica



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Fri May 16 18:52:40 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [herb] Re: vices

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:52:40 -0500



What is the 'good' coffee I am curious to know? Thanks for sharing.

Linda S.



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri May 16 21:46:51 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [herb] Re: vices

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:46:51 -0400



>What is the 'good' coffee I am curious to know? Thanks for sharing.

>Linda S.



Mocha Java... oh, mocha java...



Good coffee to the "regular stuff" is like ghiradelli bittersweet chocolate 

to hershey's, or Celestial Seasons tea compared to something fresh out of 

the garden... or the dalai lama compared to a polititian...



From mterry.snet.net Fri May 16 23:30:00 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Re: vices

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:30:00 -0700 (PDT)



--- jim mcdonald <multiflorum.hotmail.com> wrote:

> 

> Good coffee to the "regular stuff" is like

> ghiradelli bittersweet chocolate 

> to hershey's, or Celestial Seasons tea compared to

> something fresh out of 

> the garden... or the dalai lama compared to a

> polititian...

> 

It's too bad, Celestial Seasonings used to be

decent...whenever I go somewhere for a social evening,

and the host/ess says "Coffee? Tea? Herb tea?" I take

a chance, though that usually means CS...if it didn't

seem rude, I'd whip out a bag of green stuff, "I just

happen to have with me..."



What makes you think the Dalai Lama isn't a

politician?



May



From honthaas1.centurytel.net Fri May 16 17:12:23 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] hyssop

From: Veronica Honthaas <honthaas1.centurytel.net>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:12:23 -0600



Spring is very late here in NW Montana..........still many freezing nights 

and this morning it smells like it is going to snow.

As to be expected the garden is coming up very late. I was out weeding 

yesterday and cleaning up around the hyssop plants and came very close to 

pulling them out (I always want to pull them out). For some reason that is 

an herb that I have never been able to warm up to...............it smells 

like skunk to me.



Anyway, I was hoping that someone out there could share some of their 

passion for this plant and help me adjust my "attitude" towards this 

wonderful herb. I am in need of inspiration! Thanks, Veronica



From ngbard.juno.com Fri May 16 23:24:55 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] article on essiac(website)

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:24:55 -0400



http://www.cancer.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/cam/essiac



The above was in an enewsletter I receive periodically from

                    MEDLINEPLUS-NEW.mail.nlm.nih.gov



  It seems to be progress, but with a little bit of a clinker.

What do you think?

Marcia



From tmueller.bluegrass.net Sat May 17 04:10:12 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] info needed

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller.bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:10:12 -0400 (EDT)



> Does anyone have any specific information on the medicinal value of 

> Malpighia glabra (Barbados Cherry), Papaver rhoeas (Shirley poppy), 

> and Vitis vinifera (a grapevine)? I have been asked to be involved

> in the distribution of a cream that has been reported to have

> beneficial effects on eczema, psoriasis, liver spots (whatever that

> is), and even old age wrinkles. Has anyone used these herbs

> personally?



> Elliot Freeman



I have no experience with Barbados Cherry.  Only experience with Vitis vinifera

is with the fresh and dried fruits.  Vitis vinifera is the popular table grape

species available in various seedy and seedless varieties such as Thompson

Seedless, Perlette, Superior Seedless, Flame Seedless, Cardinal, Emperor, 

Ribier, Calmeria, and others.



I have used Papaver rhoeas flowers but found it very weak, ineffective for what

it was supposed to do, mild sedative, supposed to calm the cough impulse though

not very strongly.



From tmueller.bluegrass.net Sat May 17 04:10:13 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Difficulty swallowing and/or digesting,

	especially starchy foods

From: "Thomas Mueller" <tmueller.bluegrass.net>

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:10:13 -0400 (EDT)



from "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>:



> I've used meadowsweet (spirea or filipendu... filip-something ulmaria) to 

> address this, as its an astringent with a tonic effect on the GA tissues.  

> Results have been good, and with regular use for a few months, heartburn is 

> pretty rare for the fellow.  The idea is that if the sphincter muscle 

> between the esophagas & stomach is weak or lacking tone, it won't be able to 

> separate stomach acids from the esophagas.  Once those acids get to work, 

> the muscle becomes weaker and weaker.  Chamomile or Fennel will help improve 

> symptoms by neutralizing the acidity, but if you want to stop this, you need 

> to heal the tissues.



> A friend of mine said Triphala works similary, but I'm not familiar with it 

> (AA?).



> You might also want to use a mucilage on the tissues if you believe they're 

> severely enflammed or ulcerated.  This will coat & soothe them to ease 

> discomfort, and if you use a mucilage that's also a bit astringent, then 

> that's all the better.  Plantain is one of my favorites, and indicated by 

> "tickles in the throat".



I certainly had problems relating to upper abdominal tightness at the

esophagus-stomach junction, but now have tightness apparently further up the

chest that interferes with eating, especially starchy foods.  Meadowsweet for

that too?  Heartburn has not been a problem with me.



How do you use plantain for throat tickles?  Does it have to be fresh, or is

dried OK?  If fresh, should it be taken raw or cooked?  Recently I had a sore

inside the lip, apparently from biting accidentally, and it wasn't getting any

better for about six days.  Then I went out and picked Plantago lanceolata

leaves, chewed raw with meals, pressed the chewed Plantago against the lip sore,

did that for several meals, and that apparently cleared the sore.  But eating

the raw Plantago had no effect on the throat tickle.



I've been eating various starchy root/tuber vegetables, not including potatoes,

apparently what Anya was referring to in her post about an elderly lady with 

edema.  One I ate on a regular basis through last May 9 is a large taro root

whose flesh is white with purple streaks, also known as dasheen or malanga coco.

I noticed increasing difficulty swallowing this (cooked, of course, nobody eats

it raw), and in more recent days, noticed throat tickle and upper chest

irritation that seemed to result from eating this starchy root.  Allergy, maybe,

or maybe an intensification of a sensitivity of long standing first noticed in

1978 with other starchy roots of the same family (yautia, malanga): genera

Colocasia and Xanthosoma, family Araceae.  With yautias, I noticed under some

circumstances an upper abdominal discomfort, and with all the yautias, malangas

and taros except for this large variety with purple-streaked flesh, the

physical act of eating was too uncomfortable for any frequent consumption.



I find other starchy foods physically difficult to eat but don't feel any actual

allergy-suggestive symptoms.  ame (Dioscorea genus) is difficult for me to eat

more than a very small amount at one time.  I can eat beans and brown rice but

not enough to satisfy my needs; I am likely to get very hungry again within five

hours even in the middle of the night.  This hunger is likely to be accompanied

by breathing difficulties, so I have to eat, can't ignore it.  Yellow dent corn,

mixed with brown rice, or oat groats, adds crunch and a bit of sweetness, making

the mixture easier to eat than without the corn, but I haven't been able to find

this corn except at a feed store, where it is likely to be insect-infested, and

now there is also the issue of genetic engineering.  This is the same corn from

which corn meal is made.



In recent months, I've gone back to eating meat, was able to tolerate pork, even

with estimated 35% fat, but not beef (throat tickle problems).  The pork,

including the fat, was much easier to swallow than starchy foods, and being

skinny, I don't have to worry about gaining too much weight.  Now I wonder if my

allergy problems with fish and squid, perhaps beef too, might be due not so much

to the fish as to the starch I ate at the same meal, especially the taro root.

So I may try again with fish but will have fresh raw pineapple with the meal,

and a herbal brew including green tea between meals to help guard against

adverse reactions, and no starchy foods at the same meal.



> I haven't suffered from any reflux since going on a low carbohydrate diet.



> Henrietta



I think it's the starches that are bothering me, while non-starchy carbohydrates

seem OK, no need to restrict fruits such as apples, mangos, papaya, tart

cherries, strawberries, etc. 



Some (self-styled?) nutritionists praise complex carbohydrates as if complex

carbohydrates could cure all the world's ills.  Sports nutritionists recommend

pigging out on pasta on the day before a major athletic event such as a

marathon, or have they wised up in more recent years?



From joanr.shaw.ca Sun May 18 02:05:33 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: vices/ now Herb Cabinet

From: Joan <joanr.shaw.ca>

Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 16:05:33 -0700



On Friday, May 16, 2003, at 05:20  AM, Susan Marynowski wrote:

>

> (Did someone mention a drying cupboard? Hah....here in the humid south 

> you

> could grow a very nice mold collection!)



Actually here it is humid too (southern B.C.)  but not as bad as 

Florida I am sure.  How do you dry your herbs?  The herbs are open to 

the air though in my cabinet if you look at the photos on my website:



http://www.mycountrygarden.net/HGarden/preserving/drying/drying.html



Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Sun May 18 16:35:24 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Pneumonia

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:35:24 -0400



Well its been a rough week here at my house. My 3 year old has pneumonia...

and I put him on antibiotics(never thought Id say that- first of my kids to

have them...) He was listless and dehydrated and had to have IV fluids

...what a nightmare...



I am giving him a tea blend with slippery elm, mullein, cherry bark,fennel,

licorice,ginger,calendula and osha. I add Usnea tincture...



A day after beginning the antibiotics he is complaining of sore lymph nodes

in his neck...



I am giving him a few drops(4-5) of a lymphatic blend with Echinacea,

Ceanothus, Baptisia, Thuja, Iris, Stillingia and Prickly Ash- just a couple

times a day- I know that is a strong one but I feel these few drops will

help...



Coltsfoot is in bloom everywhere- but with the PA knowledge I should perhaps

avoid it? It seems so specific- but I am not  familiar with it myself- just

seeing it everywhere.



Cleavers comes to mind, too...



Anyone have any other suggestions? I am working with a Bastyr naturopath

(more into homeopathy than I am...)and an MD...but of course it is the

weekend and it is always worse at night...



Thanks ,

Michelle



From carlton47.earthlink.net Sun May 18 17:10:50 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Pneumonia

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 08:10:50 -0600



Clear chicken broth made with fresh chicken, carrots, celery, garlic,

onion, black pepper, salt, ginger, basil and oregano for best delivery and

absorption of the respiratory herbs and spices and for nutritional support

that will strengthen digestive and tissue energy.  The lymph node

tenderness and enlargement is a marker that the immune system is working. 

While uncomfortable, it is a good sign.  Try a lightweight piece of muslin

you can cut into a "play scarf" and soak it in tepid water scented with a

little rose and lavender oil and wrap it loosly around his neck for comfort.



Lots of rocking chair time will also help but you are probably doing that

already.



Hope he feels better soon.



Blessings

AA



> [Original Message]

> From: Michelle Morton-niyama <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

> Subject: [herb] Pneumonia

>

> Well its been a rough week here at my house. My 3 year old has

pneumonia...

> and I put him on antibiotics(never thought Id say that- first of my kids

to

> have them...) He was listless and dehydrated and had to have IV fluids

> ...what a nightmare...

>

> I am giving him a tea blend with slippery elm, mullein, cherry

bark,fennel,

> licorice,ginger,calendula and osha. I add Usnea tincture...

>

> A day after beginning the antibiotics he is complaining of sore lymph

nodes

> in his neck...

>



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Mon May 19 16:33:13 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Pneumonia

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:33:13 -0400



>A day after beginning the antibiotics he is complaining of sore lymph nodes

>in his neck...

>

>I am giving him a few drops(4-5) of a lymphatic blend with Echinacea,

>Ceanothus, Baptisia, Thuja, Iris, Stillingia and Prickly Ash- just a couple

>times a day- I know that is a strong one but I feel these few drops will

>help...

>

>Coltsfoot is in bloom everywhere- but with the PA knowledge I should 

>perhaps

>avoid it? It seems so specific- but I am not  familiar with it myself- just

>seeing it everywhere.

>

>Cleavers comes to mind, too...



Sounds exactle like what I just addressed, but with a woman in her late 60s. 

  I used a blend of Cleavers (half the bottle) Echinacea, Burdock Seed & 

Poke Root.  Took care of it within a weeks time.  A poutice of fresh mullien 

leaves, mashed up so they're juicy, could be applied externally over the 

glands to help improve the drainage, as well.



Really, your blend should work fine too, though I always think Cleavers with 

kids.  How many times a day are you using the extract?  More than three 

might be indicated.



Agree 100% with Aliceann's chicken soup recommendation.  A few sticks of 

astragalus while making the broth is a nice addition, as is fresh Burdock 

root & shiitakes (added to the final soup).



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Mon May 19 18:06:36 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Pneumonia

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:06:36 -0400



> Really, your blend should work fine too, though I always think Cleavers

with

> kids.  How many times a day are you using the extract?  More than three

> might be indicated.

>

> Agree 100% with Aliceann's chicken soup recommendation.  A few sticks of

> astragalus while making the broth is a nice addition, as is fresh Burdock

> root & shiitakes (added to the final soup).

>



Thanks Jim and Aliceann-



Organic Chicken stock is made- with lots of Garlic and onions...will add

some shiitakes when I warm it up.

Do you use astragalus in acute illness? I have heard mixed opinions on that

one- I do have some and could simmer that in the stock.



Have some cleavers and am trying that out...



This whole thing has made me feel like a total amateur...it is so hard when

it is your own child and they are *really* sick...I have had a hard time

keeping my cool...



Thanks for your input-

Michelle



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Mon May 19 18:52:19 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Pneumonia

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:52:19 -0400



>Do you use astragalus in acute illness? I have heard mixed opinions on that

>one- I do have some and could simmer that in the stock.



Some do, some don't... I do, but really only in soup, I don't think I've 

even got any of my astragauls tincture in a dropper bottle.  As this list 

exemplifies, mixed opinions are par for the course... I had a class on 

sunday, and clarified that while many herbalists avoid dried cleavers, I 

know of one good one who uses it and feels it works fine... I've never said 

that before...



>This whole thing has made me feel like a total amateur...it is so hard when

>it is your own child and they are *really* sick...I have had a hard time

>keeping my cool...



I can relate... reminds me of the first time I nursed my wife through a 

really bad fever... she was SO sick, it was pathetic.  Though I felt pretty 

confident in what I was doing, it was still intimidating to see her feeling 

SO lousy.  But this is how you gain experience.  Everybody whose good at 

treating something has done it for the first time.  Next time, you'll know a 

bit more, and so on.



That's why, after all, they call it a practice.



From sumar.mail.ifas.ufl.edu Mon May 19 04:13:07 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: vices now Herb Cabinet

From: Susan Marynowski <sumar.mail.ifas.ufl.edu>

Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:13:07 -0400



>On Friday, May 16, 2003, at 05:20  AM, Susan Marynowski wrote:

>> (Did someone mention a drying cupboard? Hah....here in the humid south 

>> you

>> could grow a very nice mold collection!)

>

>On Sat 17 May 2003 at 16:05:33 Joan wrote:

>Actually here it is humid too (southern B.C.)  but not as bad as 

>Florida I am sure.  How do you dry your herbs?  The herbs are open to 

>the air though in my cabinet if you look at the photos on my website:

>

>http://www.mycountrygarden.net/HGarden/preserving/drying/drying.html

>

>Joan

>My Country Garden

>http://www.mycountrygarden.net

>

>

Great pics of your drying cupboard, Joan! I do actually dry some herbs on

screens during our drier seasons, which are spring and fall months here in

North Florida. This primary drying takes place on screens up high on my

screened porch, which is about 13 feet off the ground. Other times of year

I can only achieve partial drying this way. I usually end up finishing

dried herbs in my oven, which has a gas pilot burner. The pilot provides

just enough heat and dryness to dry things fairly quickly. I can "finish"

herbs overnight and completely dry something green in several days in the

oven. I guess it is like using a dehydrator, except I am capturing energy

that is already being used in my household. I have checked into the problem

of potential gas "fumes" being caught in the herbs, and concluded that it

was not a problem, as natural gas combustion is fairly clean and the herbs

are actually _giving off_ moisture at this point. I make sure everything is

really dry before I store it in sealed jars (or sometimes freeze it).



Does anyone else on the list have creative means of drying herbs in hot

and/or humid climates?  --Susan in North Florida



From rochelle.ntlworld.com Mon May 19 19:56:03 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Rochelle Marsden" <rochelle.ntlworld.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:56:03 +0100



I have 2 problems

1) white fly ruining my Lemon Balm

2) Something eating my Bay tree



I have a large Rosemary bush + lavender+chives very nearby but they aren't

preventing the bugs although they are bug free and nothing will eat my wild

rocket (except me!!). Any ideas for getting rid of the bugs without

resorting to chemicals? I have put my  plastic strawberry mesh over the Bay

tree but it is still being got at!!



Regards

Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



From kchisholm.ca.inter.net Mon May 19 20:32:22 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm.ca.inter.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:32:22 -0300



Dear Rochelle



> I have 2 problems

> 1) white fly ruining my Lemon Balm



Knock them off with a strong spray of soapy water. I use Windex. The wetting

agent in Windex (or soap) plugs off their spiracules, or "breathing holes"

and the little beasties succumb.



As a point of interest, I would guess that the Lemon Balm is not growing in

compost, and that you probably made a recent addition of nitrogen

fertilizer, either as mineral, or as fresh manure.



> 2) Something eating my Bay tree



Sorry I can't help here...



Kevin

>



From GaSeku.aol.com Mon May 19 20:41:10 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: GaSeku.aol.com

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:41:10 EDT



Rochelle,

I haven't had any bug problems on my  herbs, but I have had some on my roses. 

I use 1 ounce of liquid seaweed, NOT FISH EMULSION, and 1 ounce of molasses 

per gallon of water. Then I spray it on the foliage. This way I get the 

benefit of foliar feeding and many of the bugs hate it..

Good luck!

Gaye, Texas



From OakCamp2.aol.com Mon May 19 21:04:38 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: OakCamp2.aol.com

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:04:38 EDT



Hi Rochelle,

If you have covered the plants and they are still being eaten, then the pests 

are inside the cover.  Hand inspect the plant and soil, looking under leaves, 

in the leaf axil, and check flowering parts.  Many times hand removal of 

pests is the best solution.  If the pests are too small or numerous to hand 

remove, I have been successful with a solution of 2 or 3 drops any liquid 

dishwashing soap, 1/8 teaspoon of cayenne pepper and 1 quart of water.  This 

can be put into any clean, empty spray bottle and the plant should be 

thoroughly sprayed.  Try to get the undersides of the leaves because the bugs 

will hide there while you are spraying.

I like this solution because it works in 2 ways.  The soapy water will kill 

the bug if they are sprayed directly with it, and the cayenne will deter the 

bugs who survive from eating the plant again.  



HTH,

Barb Birkinbine

Oak Camp Herb Farm



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Tue May 20 00:17:55 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:17:55 -0500



Anyone know what will kill spiders? There are Sooooo many in our yard. I am 

serious.  Thanks a bunch for your help.

Linda S.



From asackett.artsackett.com Tue May 20 00:57:58 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: Art Sackett <asackett.artsackett.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:57:58 -0600



Howdy, Linda:



Don't kill the spiders! If they're there in great number, they're feeding on 

something else that's there in great number -- working for you.



--

----   Art Sackett   ----



On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 04:17:55PM -0500, Linda Shipley wrote:

> Anyone know what will kill spiders? There are Sooooo many in our yard. I am 

> serious.  Thanks a bunch for your help.

> Linda S.



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Tue May 20 01:16:36 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:16:36 -0400



> Howdy, Linda:

> 

> Don't kill the spiders! 



Thats right- Spiders are beneficial- they are your friends!



Michelle



From kchisholm.ca.inter.net Tue May 20 04:22:40 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm.ca.inter.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:22:40 -0300



Dear Linda

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs



> Anyone know what will kill spiders? There are Sooooo many in our yard. I

am

> serious.  Thanks a bunch for your help.

> Linda S.

>

1: What harm are they doing?

2: There would not be that many spiders there unless there is a lot of food

for them. Have you ever watched a spider web, to see what they were

catching?

3: If you succeeded in killing off all the spiders, how would you then

control the plague of what it is that the spiders are now controlling for

you?



Kevin



From carlton47.earthlink.net Tue May 20 01:06:19 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:06:19 -0600



Spiders are "obligate predators"  they will not concentrate where there are

not LOTS of food items -- insects.  Leave them and let them clean up the

other beasties what are far more likely to be a problem than the spiders. 

They will disperse as the food availability declines.  In the meanwhile, be

careful not to step on them! 



Scott... (Aliceann's other part).



> [Original Message]

> From: Linda Shipley <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

> To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

> Date: 5/19/2003 2:17:58 PM

> Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

>

> Anyone know what will kill spiders? There are Sooooo many in our yard. I

am 

> serious.  Thanks a bunch for your help.

> Linda S.



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Tue May 20 01:50:10 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:50:10 -0500



I got a spider bite last year that did not feel good. It has me a little 

scared.

Linda S.



From carlton47.earthlink.net Tue May 20 02:22:01 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:22:01 -0600



Spider bites are possible... but, actually, quite rare.  If you were able

to watch the spider bite you, consider yourself among the very few who can

actually document a spider bite!  Most people see spiders in the area,

notice a sharp pain or bite and effect the connection.  Sometimes it's true

... most times it's really something else like a sweat bee that gets

trapped in clothing, for example.  People often talk of spider bites but if

you ever really get up close and personal, you will see that most spiders

are really not well-equipped to bite people.  Their chelicerae (base of the

fang) and the fang work laterally and, the way the muscles are attached,

serve to hold the fang closed against the cheliceral boss (base) more than

pull the fang into the prey.  This means that (somewhat like a cam) maximum

power is impossible to transmit to the tip of the fang until it is 90

degrees or less from the cheliceral base.  Consequently, it would be a lot

like you trying to bite a chunk of wood out of the middle of your dining

room table!!  (Now, if you've got REALLY buck teeth you just might get a

START on that, but I doubt even then that you'd have a lot of success).



Most spider bites treated in medical facilities are, in reality, "bites of

unknown etiology" ... simply because there is no spider that was actually

witnessed and captured to be 'credited' with the resultant condition.  For

years medical personnel have labeled such as "spider bite" or, when the

patient recalls having seen a spider in the area... "brown recluse bite." 

But that is changing ... slowly... because, frankly, some of the

consequences of these kinds of bites have become quite severe.  Probably

not as a result of the venom 'per se' but as a function of individual

reaction.  We have noted particularly severe tissue damage and long-term

necrosis following "bites of unknown etiology" when the patient was on

corticosteroid medications for arthritic conditions ... for example.  In

only one case were we able to positively tie such a bite to a spider ... an

immature male (almost mature) Coras juvenalis which was found squashed

inside the shoe in which the patient's foot had received the bite.  (The

side of the shoe offering enough additional constraint as to allow the fang

to penetrate).



Anyway... the issue really is... don't be scared.  They are really not

aggressive beasties.



Scott



> [Original Message]

> From: Linda Shipley <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

> To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

> Date: 5/19/2003 3:50:13 PM

> Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

>

> I got a spider bite last year that did not feel good. It has me a little 

> scared.

> Linda S.



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Tue May 20 05:44:51 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:44:51 -0500



Sorry to burst your bubble, but I saw the critter when he was biting me. We 

were looking each other int he eyeballs. It was quite weird.

Linda S.



From hetta.spamcop.net Tue May 20 08:37:40 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:37:40 +0300



Linda Shipley wrote:



> Sorry to burst your bubble, but I saw the critter when he was biting me. We

> were looking each other int he eyeballs. It was quite weird.



The spider debate is completely offtopic here, seeing as spiders don't appear 

as garden pests.



And, if you _really_ want them gone, you can ask the spiders to leave. 

Or just ask them to not go places where you walk barefoot.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Tue May 20 05:47:47 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:47:47 -0500



I realize spiders are beneficial insects/whatever kind of bug.  That is why 

we let 3 huge garden spiders keep their web in the herb garden last year. 

Beautifully colored boogers.

Linda S.



From carlton47.earthlink.net Tue May 20 06:22:48 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:22:48 -0600



Hi Linda...AA here...



So this spider ran over to you and attacked or what?  People here in MT

refer to "aggressive house spiders" that chase them up their cellar stairs.

Visions of Arachnophobia leap to  mind!  In any case, why would you want to

kill them when they do so much good?  Three orb weavers aren't going to

take care of a lot of the stem gnawing, sap sucking beasties that say Wolf

Spiders, Crab Spiders, Jumping Spiders and Sac Spiders (Clubionids) will on

the ground.



In the 40 years I've assisted Scott ( a spider taxonomist) collect all

sorts of spiders including black widows, tarantulas, and probably the most

aggressive in my experience...jumping spiders, I have yet to be bitten or

attacked by one so it's interesting if the tenor of spiderdom has changed

(or alto, bass and soprano for that matter) in a manner similar to African

bees.



It must be a concern for you or I doubt you'd think seriously about doing

them in and risking additives to your garden.  I'd ask the plants what

their view is for a while first.  Also, in sacred traditions the spider is

a very powerful creature.  That may be a good thing for the spirit of the

plants you have and their medicinal powers.



FWIW,

AA



> [Original Message]

> From: Linda Shipley <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>



> Subject: Re: [herb] Bugs on herbs

>

> Sorry to burst your bubble, but I saw the critter when he was biting me.

We 

> were looking each other int he eyeballs. It was quite weird.

> Linda S.

>



From Jeninct2.aol.com Mon May 19 22:40:26 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: Jeninct2.aol.com

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:40:26 EDT



Hi!



Has anyone tried tincutring Skunk Cabbage? If so, what was your experience 

with it? I am thinking of marking some to dig up this fall and try...but have 

not been able to find anything on how much rhizome to 

ETOH/water...furthermore...which type of ETOH should be used 

ie...brandy...grain...vodka...maybe I should try all three.



Take Care!



Jen in CT



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Mon May 19 23:44:42 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:44:42 -0400



>Has anyone tried tincutring Skunk Cabbage? If so, what was your experience

>with it? I am thinking of marking some to dig up this fall and try...but 

>have

>not been able to find anything on how much rhizome to

>ETOH/water...furthermore...which type of ETOH should be used

>ie...brandy...grain...vodka...maybe I should try all three.



Tincture the fresh root 1:2 with 95% grain alcohol.  It'd be better to wait 

till fall, and be sure the ground is clean.  Lots of skunk Cabbage is 

growing in polluted ground.  I'd use small doses 5-15 drops as needed for 

spasmodic coughing (once you get started, you can't stop, till your gagging 

& trying not to throw up).



I was once told that if you inadvertantly inhale the "dust" that arises from 

freshly dried Skunk Cabbage root after running it through a coffee grinder, 

it will "slow time".  But that's just heresay...



From carlton47.earthlink.net Tue May 20 05:58:56 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:58:56 -0600



Hi Jen,



You do realize how toxic skunk cabbage is yes?  I have had three patients

referred to me for psychotherapy over the past 6 years who were poisoned by

skunk cabbage that was not properly prepared.  They all had problems

(neurological) with memory, concentration and incoordination even after

intensive medical treatment.Why would you want to tincture it please?



AA



> [Original Message]

> From: <Jeninct2.aol.com>

> Subject: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

>

> Hi!

>

> Has anyone tried tincutring Skunk Cabbage? If so, what was your

experience 

> with it? I am thinking of marking some to dig up this fall and try...but

have 

> not been able to find anything on how much rhizome to 

> ETOH/water...furthermore...which type of ETOH should be used 

> ie...brandy...grain...vodka...maybe I should try all three.

>

> Take Care!

>

> Jen in CT



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 20 19:01:48 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:01:48 -0400



>Hi Jen,

>

>You do realize how toxic skunk cabbage is yes?  I have had three patients

>referred to me for psychotherapy over the past 6 years who were poisoned by

>skunk cabbage that was not properly prepared.  They all had problems

>(neurological) with memory, concentration and incoordination even after

>intensive medical treatment.Why would you want to tincture it please?

>

>AA



I've used Skun Cabbage personally - again, small doses: 5-15 drops for 

spasmodic coughs... usually 5, and I'm -twitch-  okay (sorry... that was 

probably inappropriate).  I agree entirely that it warrants respect and 

knowledge, similar to what I'd say about Lobelia.



>From Kng's:

"the most eligible mode of administration is a saturated tincture of the 

fresh root, of which 1 or 2 fluid drachms may be given for a dose"



A drachm is, I believe about 60 drops, which makes 2 darchms 120.  Since the 

eclectic did use the plant, and in these doses, I'd be VERY interested in 

hearing more about that specifics of the poisoning.  Please elaborate...



From Jeninct2.aol.com Tue May 20 22:50:32 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: Jeninct2.aol.com

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:50:32 EDT



In a message dated 5/19/03 4:45:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

multiflorum.hotmail.com writes:



> Tincture the fresh root 1:2 with 95% grain alcohol.  It'd be better to wait 

>  till fall, and be sure the ground is clean.  Lots of skunk Cabbage is 

>  growing in polluted ground.



Thanks Jim!



The Skunk Cabbage is growing on our property...out back...woodlands...no 

roads close by..or people for that matter! :)



Take Care!



Jen in CT



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Tue May 20 22:59:26 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:59:26 -0400



> The Skunk Cabbage is growing on our property...out back...woodlands...no

> roads close by..or people for that matter! :)

>



I just noticed, while reading up on respiratory blends, that Skunk Cabbage

is in one of Sharol Tilgners formulas. Her book is "Herbal Medicine from the

Heart of the Earth" and I highly recommend it.



Michelle



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 21 00:04:40 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:04:40 -0400



From: Jeninct2.aol.com

>Reply-To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

>To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

>Subject: Re: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

>Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:50:32 EDT

>

>In a message dated 5/19/03 4:45:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>multiflorum.hotmail.com writes:

>

> > Tincture the fresh root 1:2 with 95% grain alcohol.  It'd be better to 

>wait

> >  till fall, and be sure the ground is clean.  Lots of skunk Cabbage is

> >  growing in polluted ground.

>

>

>Thanks Jim!

>

>The Skunk Cabbage is growing on our property...out back...woodlands...no

>roads close by..or people for that matter! :)



Even so, with no roads close by, you have to be very careful, because the 

water is coming from somewhere... what's upstream, or upland?  Any 

conventional farms will have pesticides and herbicides leaching inot the 

groundwater & runoff, and whatevers downstream is suspect.  PCBs and 

Mercury, once in the water, stay there.  Just be sure to find out, so you 

know.  Living in SE Michigan, I'm leary of almost ALL of our wetlands, and I 

only gather aquatics from springfed ponds on property whose owners, and 

history, I know.



From carlton47.earthlink.net Wed May 21 06:08:03 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:08:03 -0600



Hi Jim.....



There were two separate cases (adults ages 40+) from Maine.... and one (age

20 something) from Upstate NY. All were cases where the skunk cabbage was

consumed as a veggie.  In all cases the cooks apparently failed to change

the waters often enough so the oxalic acid/crystals and whatever else

remained concentrated.  



I am assuming the residual symptoms that caused these folks to be sent to

me were related to kidney function problems, but I couldn't get my hands on

any labs...just MD referrals with "that's what we're dealing with for

effects"  Wish I could be more specific.  I do know that these folks did

experience stomach burning but not the mouth burning and blisters...perhaps

the boiling muted the initial effects?  I've never wanted to study the

plant except in the ground as something nice to look at, so don't know what

other constituents might contribute to the toxic effects.



 I still remember my mother, who was a gardener but not an herbalist,

saying that we children needed to not pick or taste the skunk cabbage and

jack-in-the-pulpit even though it looked good.  (We chewed the sassafras

leaves instead!).



I understand Skunk Cabbage is used as an antispasmodic and, given its

potency, that may well be a use...but I'll pass I think.  Does tincturing

remove  or bind up oxalate crystals?



> [Original Message]

> From: jim mcdonald <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

>> Subject: RE: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

>



>

> I've used Skun Cabbage personally - again, small doses: 5-15 drops for 

> spasmodic coughs... usually 5, and I'm -twitch-  okay (sorry... that was 

> probably inappropriate).  I agree entirely that it warrants respect and 

> knowledge, similar to what I'd say about Lobelia.

>

> A drachm is, I believe about 60 drops, which makes 2 darchms 120.  Since

the 

> eclectic did use the plant, and in these doses, I'd be VERY interested in 

> hearing more about that specifics of the poisoning.  Please elaborate...

>



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 21 17:46:36 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: RE: [herb] Skunk Cabbage

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:46:36 -0400



>  I still remember my mother, who was a gardener but not an herbalist,

>saying that we children needed to not pick or taste the skunk cabbage and

>jack-in-the-pulpit even though it looked good.  (We chewed the sassafras

>leaves instead!).



Sassafras leaves are SO good... my favorites probably... like green candy.



>I understand Skunk Cabbage is used as an antispasmodic and, given its

>potency, that may well be a use...but I'll pass I think.  Does tincturing

>remove  or bind up oxalate crystals?



I don't know... its ~very~ acrid, and I basically got a good mouthfull of 

spit, put five drops in, did a good swish and swallowed.   The spasmodic 

part of the cough I had resolved quickly (only a days worth of doses, three, 

I think) and I switched to mullein & plantain tincture.  Haven't had a 

spasmodic cough since then, or had anyone else come to me with one, so the 

jars somewhere in the back of the cupboard... unless its in the box I 

haven't found since I moved.  But, anyways, it did work so well that I'd 

find it useful to have around, should that type of cough arise again.



Are the crystals soluable in alcohol?  Could be as simple as that.  A five 

drop dose, as well, may be the reason no aggravation occured.



From hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu Tue May 20 06:43:59 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Bugs on herbs

From: hkobayas <hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:43:59 -0500



It is little difficult to tell what to do because I am still not sure what 

pests are causing damage here.



On spraying chemicals: Whatever they are, they are chemicals. I don't want to 

go in the goodness/evilness of pesticides, but some synthetic ones may be less 

harmful. If you are still concerned, you can try biorationals such as 

hotpepper wax, soapy water, diluted essential oil, etc. Don't use a product 

based on tobacco unless it is pure nicotine, etc. The product may still 

contain virus (TMV), and it can cause infection, etc.



I read long time ago, spraying milk is effective in controlling aphids. But 

they sure don't chew on leaves.



There is ample information out there including Internet. Having a book on 

basic pest and disease control is greatly beneficial if you grow plants.



Hideka 



From HerbalSW.aol.com Tue May 20 15:31:30 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Bugs on herbs

From: HerbalSW.aol.com

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:31:30 EDT



Neem is in several good products out there



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From joycew.triton.net Tue May 20 07:32:54 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] pneumonia

From: joycew.triton.net

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 00:32:54 -0400 (EDT)



>This whole thing has made me feel like a total amateur...it is so >hard when it is your own child and they are *really* sick...I have >had a hard time keeping my cool...



One of the main things to watch for is viral infection vs bacterial.  The word "pneumonia" is used rather loosely and can mean either one. 



If you child is running a constant high temperature or a temp that spikes high quickly and stays high, a bacterial infestation may be indicated, and all the chicken soup (and poke root. mullein plasters, etc) will not address the problem.



You can try the moldy bread route if you want.  But bacterial infections are nothing to fool with.  This last month I was unfortunate to battle an E. coli infection, which we now believe I picked up at work. The difference between feeling sick to system overload happens fast.... faster than astralagus can deal with.   



Learn the difference between the two and watch like a hawk.... good idea for any illness, actually.



SIncerely,

JoyceW



From carlton47.earthlink.net Tue May 20 08:19:03 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] pneumonia

From: "Aliceann and Scott Carlton" <carlton47.earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 23:19:03 -0600



Point well taken Joyce.  Note that this little one was already  started on

antibiotics....hopefully after a culture that indicated bacterial, but that

info isn't usually available stat so.....



In any case, bacterial or viral..while the herbs selected might differ a

little, the need for the body, especially tiny and elderly frail is to have

enough nourishment that is usable to respond to the invaders and annihilate

them, which takes a lot of energy.  I remember spending the better part of

a year in bed with one infection after another at age 8-9.  In those days

the doctor came to the house and generally administered tablets and a (ugh)

shot of penicillin or aureomycin (my ears still ring).  That afforded life

saving relief, but the real cure and diminishment of symptoms came from 1)

clear broths sometimes given by the teaspoonful 2) foot and back massage by

patient but weary parents and 3) sitting in the yard tucked under blankets

beneath the huge locust trees where I could breathe the fresh air and feel

the sun's warmth.  (In those days the TB asylums were still doing the fresh

air cures which blessedly spilled over to me as my mom grew up in the

northern Adirondacks).



Best Regards,

Aliceann



> [Original Message]

> From: <joycew.triton.net>

> Subject: [herb] pneumonia



SNIPPED



> One of the main things to watch for is viral infection vs bacterial.  The

word "pneumonia" is used rather loosely and can mean either one. 

>

> If you child is running a constant high temperature or a temp that spikes

high quickly and stays high, a bacterial infestation may be indicated, and

all the chicken soup (and poke root. mullein plasters, etc) will not

address the problem.

>

> Learn the difference between the two and watch like a hawk.... good idea

for any illness, actually.

>

> SIncerely,

> JoyceW

>



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Wed May 21 01:43:14 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] pneumonia

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:43:14 -0400



> Point well taken Joyce.  Note that this little one was already  started on

> antibiotics....hopefully after a culture that indicated bacterial, but

that

> info isn't usually available stat so.....

>

> In any case, bacterial or viral..while the herbs selected might differ a

> little, the need for the body, especially tiny and elderly frail is to

have

> enough nourishment that is usable to respond to the invaders and

annihilate

> them, which takes a lot of energy.



Exactly-

We are actually still waiting to get the results of the culture, but he did

turn around overnight- he is not completely better, mind you, but much ,

much better.

I think the big problem was dehydration- i couldnt get him to drink enough-

and I was even offering him diluted juices(which i suppose could have

weakened him further- i just couldnt make him drink only tea and water-

which he usually does.)

I started with my "childrens cure all " chamomile- but I couldnt get him to

sweat. Then I did Catnip and Yarrow...still hot and dry. Upon hindsight,

Asclepias tuberosa would have been ideal- but I dont usually like to use

those strong herbs on kids- usually all they need is Chamomile, Lemon Balm,

Ginger, Catnip...

I never suspected that it was going for his lungs- a cough was never the

main symptom- until the day before he went to the hospital for IV fluids and

antibiotics(ugh).

Now I have him drinking a tea of Ech, elderberry, rosehips, marshmallow(will

cold infuse tonight but have been decocting),then I add violet leaves and

red clover and steep. To clear the crud tinctures of cleavers, elecampane,

osha, angelica, thyme, a wee bit of yerba santa and a drop of

pleurisy/butterfly weed.

My baby, who is one, has the same thing- but has been nursing constantly and

has not been affected like Gideon was- he was in bed and did not eat for a

full week. I am treating myself with the herbs i am giving Gideon. I am

hoping it is over soon!



Michelle



From joycew.triton.net Wed May 21 03:58:06 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] pneumonia

From: joycew.triton.net

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:58:06 -0400 (EDT)



>In any case, bacterial or viral..while the herbs selected might >differ a little, the need for the body, especially tiny and elderly >frail is to have enough nourishment that is usable to respond to the >invaders and annihilate them, which takes a lot of energy. 



Just because the child did not respond to the anti-biotic given, does not mean it is not a bacterial infection.  There are some notoriously resistant strains of bacteria out there.  You are right, hopefully there was sufficient grounds for prescribing an anti-biotic in the first place.  And if there was, and the child is still ill, it does not necessarily follow that there is no bacterial infection currently.



Bacterial infections will invade any host, and can be difficult to eliminate completely.  Even a glowing healthy adult does not have the resources or energy to resist and annihilate certain strains of bacteria, once they have entered their bloodstream.   

The resources and energy of the person dictate the bodies ability to fend off the bacteria (under normal means of exposure) to begin with and its ability to recover.     



>That afforded life saving relief, but the real cure and diminishment >of symptoms came from 1)clear broths sometimes given by the >teaspoonful 2) foot and back massage by patient but weary parents >and 3) sitting in the yard tucked under blankets beneath the huge >locust trees where I could breathe the fresh air and feel the sun's >warmth. 



Such is the nature of acute illness.  Save the life first - then rebuild to health. ... and never turn down a foot massage along the way.



From hetta.spamcop.net Tue May 20 08:49:48 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] ADMIN: earthlinker with virus on this list

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:49:48 +0300



ADMIN:



One of our earthlink listers has a virus. I know because I've been catching 

the bl**dy things in list filters for the last week or three, and headers 

show it's always from earthlink. Mailman (the list software) only shows me 

that it's 100+ kB of a binary attachment, it doesn't analyze the virus for 

type, so I have no idea if it's klez or something else.



... I should probably save the headers of the next one that turns up and give 

it to earthlink for a trace ... until then, please check your PCs, folks.



Henriette, listowner.



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From redden.viriditasherbalproducts.com Tue May 20 19:31:03 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Drying Herbs

From: "John Redden Viriditas" <redden.viriditasherbalproducts.com>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:31:03 -0400



I found a nifty way to dry herbs in the house. My refrigerator is tucked

under storage cabinets in the kitchen. When drying plants I tape cardboard

strips along the sides of the fridge. The warm air from the compressor

streams over the top of the fridge and through the flat baskets filled with

herbs and dries them quickly and gently.  We also have drilled holes in the

cabinets above the fridge and channel air through them using cardboard to

seal the space around the fridge forcing the air up through the cabinets. We

notice no increase in power usage or surging by the fridge compressor.

  The prevailing wind cuts through our house and one hallway. We have placed

nails into the wood framing over the doorways angled upwards. At the local

thrift shop we purchased old lace curtains and table cloths. With string we

make a criss-cross spider's web using the nails as the form and connect the

lace to the nails over the webbing as a support. We now have a long hall

way with a tent ceiling of lace. Leaving holes at 2-4M intervals we can

climb on a chair and throw the herbs onto the netting/lace. From below we

can poke the herbs to turn them and check them for readiness. Obviously if

there are seeds they collect below on the floor.

  Lastly we bought a piece of pre-fab lattice and framed it. We screwed in

tea cup hooks on alternate cross pieces. Eye hooks in the ceiling are used

to suspend the frame which also has eye hooks on the back corners. Fixed

length chain or adjustable string lengths lets you suspend/lower the unit.

Tie bundles of herbs with elastic bands and hook them. Our frame hung over

the kitchen so we could stand on the counters to place most of the bundles

up. The rest we used a ladder.

If there is not enough wind we use fans for the first few days.

In the workshop I use much larger lattice pieces and fans.

John in Toronto. (maybe not so hot but can be humid)



From guavatrees.hotmail.com Wed May 21 15:25:23 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Drying Herbs

From: "Gary Hunter and Kim Peck" <guavatrees.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:25:23 +0000



We are also in Florida and we built a wooden outdoor smoker which we smoke 

fish, tempeh, and other things in. We use it all the time. I just place the 

herbs I've found on top. We ususally use a low temp and keep it going all 

day.  They come out nice- not too dry.



Kim in Cedar Key where it has been humid and wet lately!



From rochelle.ntlworld.com Wed May 21 00:45:31 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] bugs

From: "Rochelle Marsden" <rochelle.ntlworld.com>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:45:31 +0100



Thanks for your replies.  To tell you the truth I don't fancy eating herb

leaves that have become saturated with a strong soap solution or Cayenne

pepper!! I suppose I will have to hope that the critters die before the

plants do or spray a commercial product on that says you can eat the crops

on the same day as spraying!!  I LOL at the suggestion that I might put

nitrogen or manure on my plants. I am not that conscientious!!!



Regards,

Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



From cyli.visi.com Wed May 21 03:13:10 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] bugs

From: "Cyli" <cyli.visi.com>

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:13:10 -0500



On 20 May 2003 at 22:45, Rochelle Marsden wrote:



> Thanks for your replies.  To tell you the truth I don't fancy eating herb

> leaves that have become saturated with a strong soap solution or Cayenne

> pepper!! I suppose I will have to hope that the critters die before the

> plants do or spray a commercial product on that says you can eat the crops

> on the same day as spraying!!  



If you're going to eat the same day as spraying with the soap or 

cayenne mix, pick the edibles first and then spray.  The spray will 

wash off in a couple of days, leaving the plants edible again.  Just 

take your ones to eat and rinse them well under the hose a couple of 

times, take them in and rinse them under the sink faucet a couple of 

times again, pop them in the 'frig until mealtime and then enjoy 

eating them.  Having had a bug walk on them earlier in the day, or 

even chew on them, will do you no harm at all.



I don't believe there's a commercial product that'll let you eat 

anything for at least a few days after spraying. I'd be waiting at 

least a week after, regardless of it the label said it was safe or 

not.  



BTW, are your plants actually suffering from the bugs?  Bits of leaf 

gone?  Drooping and looking pale?  If not, you may just be having 

bugs that are taking off the dew or exudate of the leaves.



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Wed May 21 15:24:37 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] bugs

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:24:37 -0500



 >>I suppose I will have to hope that the critters die before the plants

do or spray a commercial product on that says you can eat the crops on

the same day as spraying!!<



Hi Rochelle,  nobody has mentioned chickens yet.   This is our first

year with chickens and I'm amazed at how well they keep the bugs out of

my garden.  I always had a problem with grasshoppers and flea beetles.

This year there are no problems so far.  Even if you live in the city,

some cities allow a certain number of chickens.  With a small garden you

won't need more than 2 or 3 that can free range.



Be well,

Erica



From scwilson.bigpond.net.au Wed May 21 02:34:39 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: "Steve & Christine Wilson" <scwilson.bigpond.net.au>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 09:34:39 +1000



Does anyone have experience with seasonal effective disorder or winter 

blues and its tx with herbs



thanks chris 



From Foxhillers.aol.com Wed May 21 03:33:01 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: Foxhillers.aol.com

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:33:01 EDT



In a message dated 5/20/03 7:34:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

scwilson.bigpond.net.au writes:



> Does anyone have experience with seasonal effective disorder or winter 

> blues and its tx with herbs 

> 

> thanks chris 

> 



Chris

   I hope I respond appropriately this time so the message gets to you.

   I have dealt with SAD, diagnosed in 1990 at Mich State U Medical School.

   I worked for two years with St. John's Wort at triple strength with 

marginal effect.

   Then, Siberian ginseng and Ginkgo biloba plus Lobelia with the same 

results.

    However, I found that my overall inflammatory process diminished and I 

had to have some rings sixed downward, else they fell off my fingers.



   What turned the tide for me was full spectrum lights from October thru 

March, two hours each morning.  This was the same set up as used in the research 

project I was involved in.



   Of course, the above herbs may work for you if you were not more dead than 

alive as I was.



Hope this helps

mjh



From liveoak.ozarkisp.net/ Wed May 21 14:22:39 2003

To: Foxhillers.aol.com,

 Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: "Bob" <liveoak.ozarkisp.net/>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 06:22:39 -0500



Morning here and reading this I wondered what herb(s) or 

environmentally changes(ot) could I effectively use with taking 

anti-depressants such as Nefazodone. Understanding that SJW is 

not used with the anti-depressants. Thank you



>    I worked for two years with St. John's Wort at triple strength with 

> marginal effect.

>    Then, Siberian ginseng and Ginkgo biloba plus Lobelia with the same 

> results.

> 

>    What turned the tide for me was full spectrum lights from October thru 

> March, two hours each morning. > 



Regards,



Bob



From williamj.nac.net Wed May 21 22:05:42 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:05:42 -0400



l

>    What turned the tide for me was full spectrum lights from October thru

> March, two hours each morning.  This was the same set up as used in the

research

> project I was involved in.

>

>    Chris...my experience as well.  The light is amazing.,  I use it while

I am on the computer at least two hours a day .



Bill



From Jeninct2.aol.com Wed May 21 04:37:26 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: Jeninct2.aol.com

Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:37:26 EDT



Hi!



I personally have used St. John's Wort...for the past 5 years...I start the 

begining of Oct and go through to the end of March. 



Take Care!



Jen in CT



From p.rudolph.att.net Wed May 21 22:50:35 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: p.rudolph.att.net

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:50:35 +0000



St John's Wort can be used with antidepressants - not all, not MAO inhibitors. 

And I have been taught and have found from personal experience with clients and 

self that a combination of St J's and Melissa is most effective (much much more 

than St. J's alone). And using that combination with light therapy is best of 

all.



pat



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 21 23:07:26 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:07:26 -0400



>Does anyone have experience with seasonal effective disorder or winter 

>blues and its tx with herbs



A friend of mine says eating Schizandra berries always makes her feel 

"sunny"



From Herbgrow30.aol.com Thu May 22 05:18:49 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: Herbgrow30.aol.com

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:18:49 EDT



In a message dated 5/21/2003 1:47:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

Foxhillers.aol.com writes:



>  What turned the tide for me was full spectrum lights from October thru 

> March, two hours each morning.  This was the same set up as used in the 

> research 

> project I was involved in.

> 

>    Of course, the above herbs may work for you if you were not more dead 

> than 

> alive as I was.

> 

> Hello ~

> 

> I too get SAD (Seasonal Effective Disorder/Depression) every winter now.  

> In my practice I see it more and more as folks get older.  The OTT lights 

> seem to help me also.  I have one on my desk and one at eye level in my 

> kitchen where I work.  Also I do get amazing results from St. Johns Wort 

> tincture.  But I make my own tinctures from organically grown plants.  

> These tinctures have helped others in my practice also.  There are a 

> variety of flower essences too, but each formula needs to be formulated 

> specifically for each client.



For OTT light information just type in "OTT Lights, or OTT Light Boxes" into 

your search engine.  I would not pay the $300-350 some places ask.  You can 

get them as desk lamps (Mine was $45), or as a replacement flourescent bulb 

that fits into a kitchen base, (Mine was $29.00).  You can sometimes find 

them at good health food stores.



> 

> Hope this helps ~

> 

  Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Summer classes forming



From Foxhillers.aol.com Thu May 22 05:31:13 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] winter blues ( sads)

From: Foxhillers.aol.com

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:31:13 EDT



My late husband made me a light bank..... three two bulb fixtures mounted on 

some plywood.  Six full spectrum bulbs.  It is important to be no more than 

three feet from the lights to garner their healing value.

mjh



In a message dated 5/21/03 3:17:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, williamj.nac.net 

writes:



> 

> >    What turned the tide for me was full spectrum lights from October thru

> > March, two hours each morning.  This was the same set up as used in the

> research

> > project I was involved in.

> >

> >    Chris...my experience as well.  The light is amazing.,  I use it while

> I am on the computer at least two hours a day .

> 

> Bill

> 



From williamj.nac.net Wed May 21 22:18:59 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Backs, bones & connective tissue problems

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:18:59 -0400



Jim,



I finally read Matthew Wood's three articles on backpain, etc.  Very

informative and tantalizing but sort of vague on details.  How much and how

does one take Osmunda regalis?  and the White Oak Bark with it.  Internally,

externally?



Mullein for the bones.  The leaves or the root? and how much?  the part on

the tendons was a great one but I did not figure out if I was to use True

Solomon's Seal or False Salomon's seal.There is a difference.



Also what is the Latin name for Japanese Teasel/



Bill



----- Original Message -----

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 1:28 PM

Subject: [herb] Backs, bones & connective tissue problems



> Here's links to a three part article by Matthew Wood for herbs used to

treat

> back, bone & connective tissue problems.

>



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 21 23:06:14 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Backs, bones & connective tissue problems

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:06:14 -0400



>I finally read Matthew Wood's three articles on backpain, etc.  Very

>informative and tantalizing but sort of vague on details.



>How much and how does one take Osmunda regalis?  does one take Osmunda 

>regalis?  and the White Oak Bark with it.  Internally,

>externally?



Matt uses everything in really low doses, 3-5 drops 3 times a day; some 

things, like Lobelia or wormwood just a drop.  That's pretty much standard 

with him.  Me... it depends.  If I feel really confident I've got the right 

herb, I usually use 3-7 drops (I like prime numbers...).  Otherwise, between 

10 & 30.  It depends on me, the herb, the person, & what feels right.



He told me he makes Osmunda from the leaves.  If you're buying it, the only 

person I know who makes it is Kate Gilday from Woodland Essence 

(www.woodlandessence.com).  He gave me a bottle, but it seemed to give me 

hives three times.  At least it taught me Peach Leaf tincture applied 

externally seems to make hives go away pretty well...



It would be internal usage, though sometimes he rubs tincture in externally 

as well.  I do that, too... If I'm using Solomon's Seal for say, a knee 

injury, I'll have the person rub a bit of the tincture on the knee when they 

take the extract... so it knows where to go...



>Mullein for the bones.  The leaves or the root? and how much?  the part on



He uses just the leaves, exclusively.  I usually use the root (for bone 

stuff), especially in cases where I want to "restore allignment".  Good for 

spine troubles.  I once used Mullien for a girl who'd been in a car 

accident, broke her arm, and after several weeks it wasn't healing right.  

They were going to rebreak the arm, then re-set it.  She was freaked.  I had 

her take Mullein, and things worked out.  I don't even think she was 

consistant with it... she never got back top me, and I got my follow up from 

a mutual friend.



Mullein Root tea has worked in the past for me as well, though I've only 

used it a couple of times, foir a thrown out back.



>the tendons was a great one but I did not figure out if I was to use True

>Solomon's Seal or False Salomon's seal.There is a difference.



He uses true, and I've always used true.  I suspect False would work as 

well, but can't seem to tell someone, "I know True Solomon's Seal works on 

Joint injuries, but I'd like you to be my guinea pig so I can test out the 

False."  I usually get to experiment on my wife... maybe she'll break 

something someday...



>Also what is the Latin name for Japanese Teasel



I don't have a clue... dipsascu,khvkuy... something.  I know what it looks 

like written down on paper, and I know what the plant looks like growing.  

If I needed to look it up I'd probably check Michael Moore's Site.



From williamj.nac.net Thu May 22 00:30:50 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Backs, bones & connective tissue problems

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:30:50 -0400



Thanks Jim,



I would have thought he used the Osmunda root, for it is a large fleshy

knob. three weeks ago.  The leaves are still uncurling here and are about 18

inches tall.  So I'll make a tincture.



For years I have used dried herbs in capsules but this year I am going to

try tinctures.  Did a large batch of CLeavers and Wood Betony last week.

Now I will start Ground Ivy and Solomon's Seal.  Been gathering young

nettles, so sweet and nice while young.  Some have already dried.  I think

probably the roots and leaves should be gathered in the fall when they have

more junk or stuff?



The season here in the mountains of New Jersey is full swing.  We just

finished an outstanding crop of morels and wild ramps.



Fern Royal, or Osmunda regalis is one of our most common ferns here around

lakes and swamps and it grows well even in my garden.



Bill



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 22 07:48:13 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Backs, bones & connective tissue problems

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:48:13 +0300



Bill Jacobson wrote:



> For years I have used dried herbs in capsules but this year I am going to

> try tinctures.  Did a large batch of CLeavers and Wood Betony last week.

> Now I will start Ground Ivy and Solomon's Seal.  Been gathering young

> nettles, so sweet and nice while young.



... to me, nettles and cleavers are tea herbs. Except that nettles also really 

are the best wild pot herb ever. 



So, in addition to drying them for tea: 



* cut clean young nettles (I pick'em up to about 25 cm (10") tall, after which

  I pick just the tops)(use gloves), 

* put the lot into cold water (use gloves) for about 10 minutes to give

  insects spiders etc. a chance to leave, 

* then put greens into boiling water (use gloves) for 1-2 minutes (until

  leaves are dark green and stems are light green). 

* Lift onto chopping board, let cool. 

* Add more de-crawlied nettles to same water, boil up, lift onto chopping

  board, and so on until you have no more nettles. 

* Chop up cooled preboiled nettles, put into potato mush, or risotto, or

  pancake batter, or bread dough, or freezer jars (1 liter nettles gives 1-2

  dl chopped-up greens). 



Or dry the nettles, boiled and chopped-up, in your dehydrator, and use the 

dried greens in your food. You could use plain dried nettles (not boiled) but 

they taste more of hay than of nettles, so they're not as good in food.



> I think

> probably the roots and leaves should be gathered in the fall when they have

> more junk or stuff?



Most are better in fall, yes. Do nettle root whenever, though.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 22 17:04:14 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Backs, bones & connective tissue problems

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:04:14 -0400



>I would have thought he used the Osmunda root, for it is a large fleshy

>knob. three weeks ago.  The leaves are still uncurling here and are about 

>18

>inches tall.  So I'll make a tincture.



For the record, while Matt told me he used the leaves, the root is 

traditional.  He probably heard about it, initially, from Grieve's herbal, 

where she (briefly) mentions its usefulness in rickets & lumbago.



From phosphor.hotkey.net.au Thu May 22 03:09:48 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] warming herbs

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor.hotkey.net.au>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:09:48 +1000



Henriette,



Could I ask what's been traditionally used as a warming herb in the nordic

countries during winter?  I can think of angelica but not much else at the

moment.



thanks

Andrew



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 22 07:25:22 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] warming herbs

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:25:22 +0300



Phosphor wrote:



> Could I ask what's been traditionally used as a warming herb in the nordic

> countries during winter?  I can think of angelica but not much else at the

> moment.



Mustard (as in mustard plasters) and horse radish. Angelica is good for gas 

and such, but hot? Nah.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From ngbard.juno.com Thu May 22 23:48:19 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] warming herbs

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:48:19 -0400



WArming herbs for me are cardomon, cinnamon, ginger and cayenne and

others like coriander in very small amounts either in food or in a

beverage. ( New England area)



Marcia



From Jeninct2.aol.com Thu May 22 21:12:32 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: Jeninct2.aol.com

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:12:32 EDT



Hi!



I have a 26 yr old son, who had decided, a few years back, he didn't want any 

of mom's "witches brews" anymore...he's all grown up...well now he is has 

decided that maybe I can help him...and I don't know how in this case.



A year and a half ago, he had all five toes dislocated and planted on top of 

his foot...no broken bones...not even a skin rupture...two surgeries later, 

various pain and psych meds...including the nasty "oxycotin"...and now the very 

real possibility of having his foot amputated...not due to infection ...but 

all related to pain...he is asking me to help him. He only gets a few hours 

sleep at night, before being woke up by the pain. He does not have feeling in 

various parts of the foot...at times the foot turns red and is very hot...other 

times it is dead white or even purple and very cold. You can touch him in some 

places and he feels it in another...not sure if this was all due to the 

dislocation or surgery. I told him that he would need to speak to the two doctors 

that are working with him...before going on anything herbal...if there is 

anything herbal that can be done...and that he might have to go off his meds before 

starting on them...again he would need to get the okay from his doctors...we 

are going to see one of them tomorrow...I really feel that he needs to see 

someone else.



Anyway...it has been suggested to me that he start with St. John's 

Wort...tincture...externally for now...internally Indian Pipe (I need to research this 

one) and some anti-inflammatory herbs. Any thoughts?



Take Care!



Jen in CT



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 22 21:36:39 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:36:39 -0400



>Anyway...it has been suggested to me that he start with St. John's

>Wort...tincture...externally for now...internally Indian Pipe (I need to 

>research this

>one) and some anti-inflammatory herbs. Any thoughts?



probably have some thoughts, but first, what's the rational for the Indian 

Pipe?  Are you refering to Monotropa Uniflora?



From niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk Thu May 22 23:50:10 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: "Niamh Mcginley" <niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 21:50:10 +0100



>

> Anyway...it has been suggested to me that he start with St. John's

> Wort...tincture...externally for now...internally Indian Pipe (I need to

research this

> one) and some anti-inflammatory herbs. Any thoughts?

>

> Take Care!

>

> Jen in CT



Jen,



God, the poor guy. I've had nerve trouble, pain and numbness and all that

but from a different kind of injury. And funny pains being referred around,

SaintJohn's Wort alone means I have the use of an arm now. So I reckon get

it down him now, best quality you have. You could use the oil topically. Of

course you know the skin colour changes are due to poor circulation and you

need a good circulation for healthy nerves. This is the angle you need to

work on because if the doctors painkillers are not working herbs wont

either, of course there are some great herbal anodynes but their use is

restricted most places and they are very close to poisons so you have to

know what you are doing.



I would start with foot baths and maybe even hand and foot baths. And use

herbs to help the circulation and protect the vessels. Is he mobile?



I think you HAVE to bring him to see some one else. Sounds like it could be

a sort of carpal tunnel of the foot syndrome. Maybe even some thing like a

splint to keep his toes in a certain position at night would help

enormously. There may be nerve compression. And blood vessel damage.

Let us know what you think and if you need other ideas. I just dont want to

be preaching to the converted after all your experience!

Namh



From ngbard.juno.com Thu May 22 23:57:14 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:57:14 -0400



I used to use a strong decoction of dried supermarket oregano leaves for

extreme menstrual pain that I now know was fibroids.  I don't know what

it will do  for nerve pain associated with dislocated toes, and it does

taste horridly bitter, but AFAIK the anodyne property is not toxic, and

if it takes the edge off that kind of pain, it might be worth a try.



My chiropractor adjusts my feet when he adjusts my back because I tend to

have small but painful issues.

Maybe a chiropractor or a physical therapist can come up with something

that relieves something that is perpetuating the causes of the pain.



Good luck and good health to you and yours,

Marcia



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 23 09:07:47 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:07:47 +0300



Marcia Grossbard wrote:

> I used to use a strong decoction of dried supermarket oregano leaves for

> extreme menstrual pain that I now know was fibroids.  I don't know what

> it will do  for nerve pain associated with dislocated toes, and it does

> taste horridly bitter, but AFAIK the anodyne property is not toxic, and

> if it takes the edge off that kind of pain, it might be worth a try.



Interesting use of Oregano. I use recently dried Angelica root (as in, dried 

during the last 12 months or so), and my clients swear by it. It's also 

_extremely_ fast.



But: Angelica helps with severe _cramps_. Oregano, being one of the gut 

soothers, very probably works the same way. 

So it's not the pain per se, it's the cause of the pain. I'd be very 

interested if oregano did in fact help with this sort of pain, though.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From GEOTANI.aol.com Fri May 23 01:50:58 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: GEOTANI.aol.com

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:50:58 EDT



Hi Jen,

I'm not an herbalist, I'm a pharmacist, but the case of your son rang a bell. 

First of all, if the toes turn red, white and blue (purple), that may be 

diagnostic (I think for Raynaud's phenomenon, some treatments are intraarterial 

reserpine and nifedipine). 

I have a friend who's foot pain was so severe that the touch of a bedsheet 

was exquisitely painful. They too tried him on pain and psych meds, but now are 

going to acupuncture.

You've probably either heard of all this or have tried these things. Let me 

know if I can help.

Thanks.



Take care,

George Taniguchi, PharmD, MPH



From Herbgrow30.aol.com Fri May 23 02:27:41 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: Herbgrow30.aol.com

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:27:41 EDT



In a message dated 5/22/2003 2:13:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

Jeninct2.aol.com writes:



> again he would need to get the okay from his doctors...we 

> are going to see one of them tomorrow...I really feel that he needs to see 

> someone else.

> 

> Anyway...it has been suggested to me that he start with St. John's 

> Wort...tincture...externally for now...internally Indian Pipe (I need to 

> research this 

> one) and some anti-inflammatory herbs. Any thoughts?

> 

> Take Care!

> 

> Jen in CT

> 



Hi Jen ~



We've gone through something similar with my husband and 2 neck/basal-brain 

surgeries.  He has nerve damage and many of the symptoms you have mentioned.  

He had to go off of oxycontin in December.  We have found acupuncture and 

massage to restore the blood flow and oxygen to the area helped.  Then I made a 

pain cream from homeopathic Bellis perennis (daisy); hypericum perf. (St. Johns 

Wort); Rhus tox (Poison Ivy); and Ruta graveolens.  These in combination with 

each other are wonderful for pain.  



Many forget that St. Johns Wort was originally used to assist with nerve 

regeneration.  We also make a St. Johns Wort oil from placing the flowers in a bit 

of oil and leaving in the sun until the oil is a lovely rose red.  The oil 

helped especially with the massage, but I think my touching him at night helped 

more.



Then we gave him folic acid; glucosamine chondroitin; vitamin B; a nerve and 

osteo mix of: vitamin D, calcium, phosphorous, iodine, and magnesium made by  

Country Life; and co-enzyme Q-10 to move oxygen to the injured areas.



Herbally I made a pain tea of white willow bark (pain and inflammation), St. 

Johns Wort (nerves); lobelia (antispasmodic).  If he needed this at night I 

would add it with scullcap or chamomile.  If he was particularly anxious I would 

put it in with some Kava.  This would work to help him sleep and not awake 

with a drugged feeling.



Lastly I found a good therapist who did manipulation and light touch therapy. 

 She has moved the bones and nerves through meridians to help oxygen and 

blood flow to the area.  Fortunately we had good insurance because he gets 2 

physical therapy treatments a week, 2 massages a month, and his special 

manipulations each week.

I hate to be a pessamist and many times I would get severely concerned 

nothing was working, but just now he can actually turn his head; hold it up right; 

and begin to hold things in his left hand (which was dead for a year and a 

half).  He still cannot do anything on the farm and goes to bed after each 

treatment but he has what is most important -- hope.



I hope this helps.  You are welcome to contact me offlist if I can offer 

anything else.



Warmly ~

Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From amandawaaldyk147.hotmail.com Fri May 23 03:16:48 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: "mands ." <amandawaaldyk147.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 00:16:48 +0000



I have an excellent formula for fractures, dislocations.  I have used this 

formula for many sporting injuries and fractures and have had great results.



The herbs help to reduce swelling, stop pain, and promote blood flow and 

heal fractures.  This is a traumatic injury which has caused the blood and 

qi to stagnate which results in poor circulation.

Foot Soak

Ru Xiang 9g

Mo Yao 9g

Da Huang 12g

Chi Xiao Dou 30-40g

Wei Ling Xian 12-18g

gUi Zhi 12- 15g

Dang Gui Wei 12-15g

Ma Huang 9g

Shen Jin Cao 15g

Tou Gu Cao 9-12g

Hong Hua 9-12g

Tao Ren 9-12g

Chuan Wu 9g

Fu Zi 9g



Instructions: decot for 30mins and water and rice wine. Soad feet with 

enough water up to ankle bone for 30 mins morning and night. THis formula is 

amazing and really does work.  As the injury is severe this will alleviate 

the pain immediately.  I speak from experience, as I smashed my toes and 

broke my ankle snowboarding.  THis worked wonders. During the day he should 

use the linament zheng gui sui.

regards amanda



From: Jeninct2.aol.com

>Reply-To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

>To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

>Subject: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

>Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:12:32 EDT

>

>Hi!

>

>I have a 26 yr old son, who had decided, a few years back, he didn't want 

>any

>of mom's "witches brews" anymore...he's all grown up...well now he is has

>decided that maybe I can help him...and I don't know how in this case.

>

>A year and a half ago, he had all five toes dislocated and planted on top 

>of

>his foot...no broken bones...not even a skin rupture...two surgeries later,

>various pain and psych meds...including the nasty "oxycotin"...and now the 

>very

>real possibility of having his foot amputated...not due to infection ...but

>all related to pain...he is asking me to help him. He only gets a few hours

>sleep at night, before being woke up by the pain. He does not have feeling 

>in

>various parts of the foot...at times the foot turns red and is very 

>hot...other

>times it is dead white or even purple and very cold. You can touch him in 

>some

>places and he feels it in another...not sure if this was all due to the

>dislocation or surgery. I told him that he would need to speak to the two 

>doctors

>that are working with him...before going on anything herbal...if there is

>anything herbal that can be done...and that he might have to go off his 

>meds before

>starting on them...again he would need to get the okay from his 

>doctors...we

>are going to see one of them tomorrow...I really feel that he needs to see

>someone else.

>

>Anyway...it has been suggested to me that he start with St. John's

>Wort...tincture...externally for now...internally Indian Pipe (I need to 

>research this

>one) and some anti-inflammatory herbs. Any thoughts?



From dmam.optonline.net Fri May 23 07:24:42 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: Peter Marino <dmam.optonline.net>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 00:24:42 -0400



How about trying a TENS unit along with the herbals.



P.M.



> Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:12:32 EDT

> From: Jeninct2.aol.com

> A year and a half ago, he had all five toes dislocated and planted on top

of

> his foot...no broken bones...not even a skin rupture...two surgeries

later,

> various pain and psych meds...including the nasty "oxycotin"...and now the

very

> real possibility of having his foot amputated...not due to infection

...but

> all related to pain...he is asking me to help him.



From Jeninct2.aol.com Sat May 24 15:53:25 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Dislocated Toes, Severe Nerve Pain

From: Jeninct2.aol.com

Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 08:53:25 EDT



Hi!



I would like to thank all of you who have sent me notes, prayers, and 

encouragement...both privately and publicly...I have started doing research on what 

has been suggested.



I went with Jack...yesterday...to the surgeons office...he has sympathetic 

nerve damage...they will be scheduling him for surgery in the next few 

weeks...this will be to see if they can get the toes to at least straighten and touch 

the ground (right now they are  knotted and raised - like as if all bent and 

trying to touch the ball of the feet)...the amputation will be a last 

resort...and I am praying a non-issue in time!



One of you asked me about the use of Indian Pipe (I am sorry but I accidently 

deleted your email when I was meaning to print it out). I havd not heard much 

of the use of Indian Pipe. What was suggested to me was that it had been used 

to...not rid the pain...but to increase one's pain tolerance. I believe the 

person suggesting it referred to David Winston (sp?) as the source of this 

info. I have found very little info on Indian Pipe...and what I have found 

suggests I not use this...as I don't feel comfortable with it...at this point...due 

to lack of knowledge.



Again, I thank all of you who have responded...and just wish to let you know 

that I am researching the suggests you have put forth!



Take Care!



Jen in CT



From niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk Fri May 23 02:29:52 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Dysmenhorroea

From: "Niamh Mcginley" <niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 00:29:52 +0100



> Laura Ridley wrote:

>

> > Her cycle is rather long (35 days +) and unpredictable.

>

Henriette wrote:

> Vitex should help her get that cycle back to regular.

> A tincture is best; do it at 1:5 60% or so, 15-30 drops 1-2 x /day.

>

> Why vitex? Because a long cycle points to progesterone deficiency, and

vitex

> strenghtens the corpus luteum, which is responsible for progesterone.

>

> If she likes she could also do dong quai; then, the pattern is: vitex from

> menses to ovulation (know your body, know your mucus ...); dong quai from

> ovulation to menses; neither taken during menses, as both can make you

bleed

> more.



Funny, the feeling here in the UK is that Vitex is best suited to short

cycles (21 days) 1ml per morning of a 1:1 or 1:2. It's definitely not for

everyone.



To the lady that posed the question, are you sure your friend does not have

something going on if her cramps are so bad? Like fibroids or endometriosis?

Cos you really need to know before you are taking herbs with a hormonal

action. You asked about uterine tonics like raspberry leaves. They are a

good idea if the cramps are a result of a badly toned uterus. You could use

gentle things like Lady's mantle and yarrow combined with whatever else is

indicated. Maybe Shepherd's purse if the bleeds are heavy,. Or valerian if

tension is an issue. Henriette is right about angelica, it is a powerful

mover of blood. I don't understand it yet and so wouldn't know, I am nervous

of it for that reason. I'd favour the softly softly approach myself, and use

a pain mix like your own symptomatically in the mean time. A good one is

valeriana 10, vib pru 10 and anemone pulsatilla 10. hourly doses til relief

is obtained. i know the cycles are not very predictable, but some people

fare much better just by taking valerian in the week prior to whenevr the

pain comes, 5ml three times daily, or whatever suits the individual of

course. doing things like spraying cold water up your legs and on your belly

after you r shower for a minute in the mornings all month round is a simple

way to keep your pelvic blood moving. In the mean time figure out what is

wrong and treat that.

Namh



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Fri May 23 03:53:39 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: vertigo

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:53:39 -0500



Hi listmembers. Since we have been talking about nerves I want to ask a 

question of you all. Do you have any experience with vertigo? I have started 

her on the gingkgo and colloidal minerals. Also, she is getting work done by 

chiropractor.  The MD recommended antivert but she hasn't taken that.  

(afraid of side effects)  She wants to go herbal all the way. She said she 

had a massage that really helped center her--been under alot of stress.  I 

would appreciate your ideas. Thanks.

Linda S.



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri May 23 05:27:07 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: vertigo

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:27:07 -0400



>Hi listmembers. Since we have been talking about nerves I want to ask a 

>question of you all. Do you have any experience with vertigo? I have 

>started her on the gingkgo and colloidal minerals. Also, she is getting 

>work done by chiropractor.  The MD recommended antivert but she hasn't 

>taken that.  (afraid of side effects)  She wants to go herbal all the way. 

>She said she had a massage that really helped center her--been under alot 

>of stress.  I would appreciate your ideas. Thanks.



Makes me think about chewing Calamus root.  I'd pick up an ounce, have her 

chew a few small pieces as soon as she feels the slightest twinge of 

vertigo.  If that's the right herb, she'll know immediately & want to get 

more.  It's very balancing and extremely good for overwhelming axiety & 

panid attacks.  A dizzy-queasy feeling is a specific indication



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 23 09:36:48 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: vertigo

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:36:48 +0300



Linda Shipley wrote:



> Hi listmembers. Since we have been talking about nerves I want to ask a

> question of you all. Do you have any experience with vertigo?



Inner ear troubles - you might want to try Glechoma hederacea, 2-3 cups of tea 

a day, for 2-3 months.



And no coffee or caffeine - that interferes with peripheral blood flow ...



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Fri May 23 12:07:46 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: vertigo

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 04:07:46 -0500



Henriette wrote:

"

Inner ear troubles - you might want to try Glechoma hederacea, 2-3 cups of 

tea

a day, for 2-3 months.



And no coffee or caffeine - that interferes with peripheral blood flow "



I add: Henriette, where do you find ground ivy-other than picking it 

yourself?   I would like to purchase some. And have you had success with 

this herb for vertigo? Thanks.

Linda S.



From guavatrees.hotmail.com Fri May 23 15:18:07 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: vertigo

From: "Gary Hunter and Kim Peck" <guavatrees.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:18:07 +0000



One thing I tried was Damiana- 3-4 cups a day.  You can smoke it too if you 

want. I wouldn't take it too long though- it can interfere with iron 

absoption after a while, I understand.



Helped me a lot. : )



Kim



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri May 23 16:32:30 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: vertigo

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:32:30 -0400



>I add: Henriette, where do you find ground ivy-other than picking it 

>yourself?   I would like to purchase some. And have you had success with 

>this herb for vertigo? Thanks.



Kate Gilday has Ground Ivy tinctured, at www.woodlandessence.com.  I don't 

know of a source for the bulk herb, unless you talk to a wildcrafter and 

have them get it for you.



From ngbard.juno.com Sun May 25 07:51:29 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: vertigo

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:51:29 -0400



vertigo? . Also, she is getting work done by 

chiropractor.  The MD recommended antivert ...



I had a virus cold vertigo,for about20 days and I was on antivert which

started to work and then "reverted" to worse when I rolled over in bed. 

I switched to ginger capsules ( Somewhere in the archives of the New York

times is a report of a spin test study, wherein the GINGER CAPSULE

SUBJECTS walked away from the chair that they were spun around in.  The

placebo and no-pill subjects either staggered or fell down.



My eyes are uneven and turbulence makes them feel bouncey and more uneven

( in the mirror one eye is lower than the other) for turbulence and

vertigo and the sequellae of nausea ande vomiting, I used to struggle

with ginger capsules, which helped me with that ROTTEN cold, and chewing

crystallized ginger.

Last plane ride over a turbulent area, I squirted  about 1/2 teaspoon of

ginger tincture into either a seltzer or a diet lemony fizzy drink, and

that was a miracle in speedy cures.  



Good luck and good health to you and yours,

Marcia

---



From hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu Fri May 23 06:53:15 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Kombucha name

From: hkobayas <hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:53:15 -0500



This is not about kombucha ad herb/neutraceutical, etc. Is there anyone who 

knows for sure why the fermented tea with fungi/batcteria is called 

"kombucha"? I have checked Internet refernces, but I am still not sure why. 

Kombucha is kelp tea in Japan, not Koucha Kinoko (= red tea mushroom). I read 

Dr. Kombu from Korea treating Emperor Inkyo, and kombucha spread throught the 

country. Well, first of all, it's Emperor Ingyo, not Inkyo. And tea drinking 

didn't become popular well into 13th century in Japan. And there seems a lot 

of confusion about its history.



A couple of sites mentioned that it's very popular in Japan, but that was a 

fad back in '70.



So this isn't herb, but if anybody can direct me to a right direction, it will 

be most certainly appreciated.



Hideka



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 23 09:38:38 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Kombucha name

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:38:38 +0300



hkobayas wrote:

> This is not about kombucha ad herb/neutraceutical, etc. Is there anyone who

> knows for sure why the fermented tea with fungi/batcteria is called

> "kombucha"? I have checked Internet refernces, but I am still not sure why.



Try the kombucha list. Kombucha _overwhelmed_ this list a couple years ago, 

and has been OFFtopic here, ever since.



http://www.topica.com/lists/kombucha/

http://w3.trib.com/~kombu/



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Fri May 23 15:27:22 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] AHG?

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:27:22 -0400



> -- 

> Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland



Is that new?



Congratulations!

What an herbal honor!

I am working toward that m'self...still a ways off...



Michelle



From Juliesjames.aol.com Fri May 23 17:05:19 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG?

From: Juliesjames.aol.com

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:05:19 EDT



In a message dated 5/23/03 5:27:21 AM, lakshmi.kingcon.com writes:



>> Henriette Kress, AHG  



I had seen that you were listed as a candidate on the website-now it's 

official!



Congratulations!! 



julie



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 23 18:02:54 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:02:54 +0300



Michelle Morton-niyama wrote:

> > --

> > Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

>

> Is that new?



Aye. It was a joy to read the required letters of reference (like, wow. I was 

sorely tempted to ask for a couple additional references, just because the 

replies were so cool).



And when the AHG folks told me the application had been approved, they said 

"Henriette and [a well-respected UKian herbalist] in the same month - we're 

on a roll" ...



> Congratulations!



;)



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From ask.gtii.com Fri May 23 18:09:18 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG?

From: "Richard M. Ask" <ask.gtii.com>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:09:18 -0400



----- Original Message -----

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>



> Michelle Morton-niyama wrote:

> > > --

> > > Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

> >

> > Is that new?

>

> Aye. It was a joy to read the required letters of reference (like, wow. I

was

> sorely tempted to ask for a couple additional references, just because the

> replies were so cool).

>

> And when the AHG folks told me the application had been approved, they

said

> "Henriette and [a well-respected UKian herbalist] in the same month -

we're

> on a roll" ...

>



I guess I missed something along the way here

AHG ? American herblist guild?



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 23 18:48:35 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:48:35 +0300



Richard M. Ask wrote:



> I guess I missed something along the way here

> AHG ? American herblist guild?



Yes. http://www.americanherbalistsguild.com



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From HerbalSW.aol.com Fri May 23 18:28:35 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG?

From: HerbalSW.aol.com

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:28:35 EDT



(I am not worthy)

genuflecting



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri May 23 19:20:08 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG?

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:20:08 -0400



>Yes. http://www.americanherbalistsguild.com

>

>Henriette



Makes me ponder the filled out application I've got in a drawer somewhere 

and all ready to go.  I oscillate every couple months on whether or not I 

want to send it in...



part of its strictly practical:  I have so little expendable cash to pay the 

dues, along with the money that would go to attending one of the many very 

expensive symposiums for continuing education... I'm just getting to the 

point where I can occasionally make a deposit that exceeds what I've already 

spent in grain alcohol, bottles, and the gas it takes to drive from this 

persons house to that (and theirs the book habit, too...).



and part of its idealistic:  As I think we joked around about a month or so 

ago, I really hate credentials... even when they're highly respectable, as I 

feel the ahg is...



so...

to ahg or not to ahg... that is the question...



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 23 19:45:43 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG?

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 19:45:43 +0300



jim mcdonald wrote:

>

> and part of its idealistic:  As I think we joked around about a month or so

> ago, I really hate credentials... even when they're highly respectable, as

> I feel the ahg is...



Dunno. Why did I join? Perhaps I like their cause. Perhaps there's some 

credibility lent by those letters, in the current political climate of the EU 

- not that professional membership in the AHG is all that likely to have an 

impact on anything Finnish, but it sure can't hurt. And it _does_ give me a 

certain credibility elsewhere, as reactions on this list have shown.



Shrug. AHG herbalists are like people everywhere - there's good ones, there's 

ones you shake your head about.

But: they're all practising herbalists - or at least, they have been 

practising herbalists, for at least 4 years, back when they sent in their 

application.



That's gotta be worth something.



And if they grow big enough - think about it, practising herbalists actually 

having a say in things herbal!



That's worth helping along, even if your yearly fee suddenly doubles.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From herbalanng.cox.net Sun May 25 06:07:54 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG?

From: Ann Gerstenberger <herbalanng.cox.net>

Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 23:07:54 -0400



c'mon Jim,

go fer it! It's herbalists like you and Henriette that will keep the 

AHG,  ...



worth aspiring to.



Congratulations, Henriette, looks like we may have to change the name to 

the I(nternational)HG.



Ann G.,

student member



jim mcdonald wrote:



>> Yes. http://www.americanherbalistsguild.com

>

> Makes me ponder the filled out application I've got in a drawer 

> somewhere and all ready to go.  I oscillate every couple months on 

> whether or not I want to send it in...



From lauraridley.localdial.com Fri May 23 17:47:34 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re: Dysmenhorroea

From: "Laura Ridley" <lauraridley.localdial.com>

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 15:47:34 +0100



Hello Naimh.

Thankyou for your input.

In fact, my friend recently went to see a holistic practitionner (he called

himself an iridologist, but from what she told me, his approach encorporated

more approaches than simply iridology).   Anyway, he advised her generally

on a altering her diet (eating regularly, wheat, dairy and egg free, and

other than that mostly based on the Hay Diet) and to get regular exercise -

all sensible suggestions of course.  He also reccommended several herbs and

nutrients.

She said she when she mentioned her menstrual pain, he briefly told her it

was probably cauesd by blood sugar imbalance. So after following his regime

for 3 weeks or so, her period came on, and she said the discomfort was

hardly anything when compared to the month before.

After reading your message though, Naimh, it would of course be necessary to

eliminate serious conditions, and in fact I'm surprised that this guy didn't

go further in asking her about her period pain, but she went to see him on a

general level - lack of energy, no joie-de-vivre that kind of thing.

Although sounds like he did skip over it.

I will keep on seeing if she's OK and still improving.  If not suggest

visiting GP to get the mentioned conditions checked for.  Its just that she

was talking about taking the contraceptive pill and I wanted her to avoid

that at all cost!

Thanks again.

Laura



From p.rudolph.att.net Fri May 23 19:56:38 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] AHG? - how to beat the high cost of expensive symposiums

From: p.rudolph.att.net

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 16:56:38 +0000



There are many very expensive symposiums you can use for continuing education  

but there are conferences and classes which are a lot more reasonable. I avoid 

the high priced stuff and go for ones i can afford.  Plus I work at conferences 

to offset the cost. I am coordinating work exchange for the Green Nations 

Gathering in NY State in September. You pay a smaller fee and then spend about 

20 hours during the conference weekend working on various things, some 

monitoring classes, some moving things around and some cleaning up among other 

tasks. If any one is interested in applying, they can contact me off list for 

details. (check out www.greennations.org for information on the conference)



Pat



 



From hetta.spamcop.net Sun May 25 00:22:39 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Summer!

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:22:39 +0300



So on wednesday we had the big annual spring market right next door to where 

I'm at, in Helsinki.



I bought and/or swapped:

- Tagetes lucida (Mexican tarragon) - annual

- Lippia citriodora (lemon verbena) - annual, for all practical purposes

- Monarda citriodora (a bee balm) - a really gorgeous annual

- a thyme (my old one had died) - tender perennial

- 3 x Satureja douglasii (yerba buena) - annual, for all practical

  purposes; but I'll keep one of them indoors all summer, let's see if it's

  better at surviving that way

- lavandula dentata (a lavender) - tender perennial. Let's see if it

  survives the winter

- Pycnanthemum pilosum (a mountain mint) - perennial

- Iris sibirica (an iris) - perennial, which will flower at a lofty height

  of about 1 m (3') - probably this year

- 2 x Salvia apiana (whitesage) - annual, for all practical purposes, but

  I'll keep one of them indoors all summer, perhaps it won't die over winter

  that way.

- Echinocystis lobata, just because it's said to have vanilla-scented flowers

  - I'll put it into the hops and watch'em twine into each other



of my old things, these have survived, among others:

- Lavandula officinalis 'Hidcote blue' (lavender) - tender perennial

- French tarragon - tender perennial

- lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of caraway (biennial, yum for the

  leaf!)

- an angelica (it even survived being parked on a newspaper for the two weeks

  from when I dug it up to the time I got 3 cubic meters of horseshit plopped

  into the enormous hole I'd dug in the front garden, and the old dirt put

  back on top of that) (this is unusual because 1) angelicas have taproots,

  and 2) I didn't cover it with dirt, but just parked it in full sun)(biennial

  or short-lived perennial)

- pretty much all my mallows (Malva moschata (2 colors), Malva rosea, Lavatera

  whatever), even if the Althaea officinalis looks dubious (perennials)

- six seedlings of Alcea rosea -let's see what color they are, I had 4

  different ones last year (biennial or short-lived perennial)

- Inula helenium, which I divided into 4 enormous chunks and gave away

  (perennial)

- hyssops, let's see what colors I have now (I used to have all three - blue,

  white, pink; but blue survives best) (perennials)

- the funny hyssop, that isn't H. officinalis (perennial)

- Calamintha grandiflora 'Variegata' - a glorious perennial, pretty and tasty

  (perennial)

- Monarda didyma 'Cambridge scarlet', 'Schneewittchen' and hybrids of these

  two - perennials

- Chelone whatever - perennial

- Tanacetum balsamita (costmary) - a perennial, and a very late bloomer. It

  didn't even manage to seed last year, which was the earliest and warmest

  ever

- Mentha spp: maroccan mint (Mentha spicata var. crispa 'whatever'), curly

  mint (Mentha spicata var. crispa, and boyo this one is _crispa_), spearmint

  (Mentha spicata) eaudecologne mint (a peppermint - Mentha x piperita 'Eau de 

  cologne'), field mint (Mentha arvensis), greymint (Mentha longifolia -

  gorgeous, and tasty, too), peppermint (Mentha x piperita 'the best one

  England has but I've forgotten the name), applemint (Mentha suaveolens

  (yech)), ...

The Pycnanthemum tenuifolium hasn't shown up yet, I'm worried.

The melissa died.

I'm worried about the obedient plant, too.



So today there was a garden fair about an hour thataway -> , and I got some 

_real_ exotics:



- 2 x Stevia rebaudiana - first time I've ever seen this in Finland (tropical,

  perennial. I don't think it'll survive our winter even indoors, but I'll 

  give it a shot)

- 2 x licorice root (Glycyrrhiza glabra) - a tender perennial - the old one

  died

I also bought a replacement melissa, a new Salvia sclarea (the old one died), 

and a Dipsacus fullonum.



I expect I'll have about 100 species, give or take a couple dozen, once 

they're all up and accounted for. Of which at least 10 are _real_ mints 

(Mentha sp.), and lots are "fake" mints (Calamintha, Satureja, Monarda, 

Pycnanthemum, ...)



In other news, this morning there was one tiny red thing in the new nest, and 

when I came home this evening all five had hatched. New greenfinches, that is 

- the other nest, the one that's 30 cm (1') behind the old one. Yay birdmama!



And there's a saying in Finnish: 



Kuu kiurusta kesn         A month from the lark to summer

puoli kuuta peipposesta     half a month from the chaffinch

vstrkist vhsen        a little from the wagtail

pskysest ei pivkn   not a day from the swallow



And because I saw a swallow on Wednesday it's officially summer here now.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From joanr.shaw.ca Sun May 25 01:48:16 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Joan <joanr.shaw.ca>

Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 15:48:16 -0700



On Saturday, May 24, 2003, at 02:22  PM, Henriette Kress wrote:

>

> - the funny hyssop, that isn't H. officinalis (perennial)



curious to know what that would be <lol>.  I haven't heard of that one 

before!  Wonderful list Henriette.  I calmed down growing many 

varieties of herbs a few years ago....down to 200 or so now <LOL>.  For 

a while there I thought I had to grow every herb I came into contact 

with.   I am also concentrating on the ones I use most - in teas and 

tinctures and vinegars - as you need so many of those to harvest each 

year to make the teas etc.



> a new Salvia sclarea (the old one died),



Clary sage is a biennial supposedly, although some of mine bloom the 

first year....never could figure that out.  All the biennials seem to 

have a mind of their own.   I am surprised your melissa died....you can 

have some of mine it is growing everywhere  <LOL>..however I cannot 

seem to keep hyssop alive...I had all three colours that I grew from 

seed.  Mine all died within a few years of my finding a good use for 

them - figures.  I grew licorice from seed and will probably dig one up 

this year.  I hope they liked it where I planted them and has a strong 

licorice flavour.  I was growing astragalus in the same bed that I grew 

from seed but for some reason after about 3 years it completely 

disappeared.  Very disappointing.  I have a special raised bed to grow 

root crops including dong quai, licorice, astragalus, valerian, fo-ti 

but haven't dug any roots yet.  This is the first year I haven't grown  

a new herb.  This year I am just concentrating on keeping  the herbs I 

have growing well and harvesting them as I broke my hip in December and 

I am using the garden as physical therapy which is working very well!



Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



From hetta.spamcop.net Sun May 25 09:06:46 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:06:46 +0300



Joan wrote:

> Henriette Kress wrote:

> > - the funny hyssop, that isn't H. officinalis (perennial)

>

> curious to know what that would be <lol>.  I haven't heard of that one



Hyssopus seravschanicus



> > a new Salvia sclarea (the old one died),

> Clary sage is a biennial supposedly



Well yes - mine was supposed to flower this year, but instead it up and died.



> I am surprised your melissa died....



One word: winter. Melissa really doesn't like winter, and dies rather 

regularly. It does self-seed, though, just not in my garden, dunno why.

Last winter was vicious.



> Can't

> seem to keep hyssop alive...I had all three colours that I grew from

> seed.  Mine all died within a few years of my finding a good use for

> them - figures.  



They are short-lived perennials, but they self-seed _profusely_. If the plant 

you're pulling up is not a weed it's likely a hyssop. Or a catnip, catmint, 

musk mallow, oregano, one of the "real" mints ...

Hyssops also thrive on being cut down pretty much to the roots every year, 

which hares do for me.



> have growing well and harvesting them as I broke my hip in December and

> I am using the garden as physical therapy which is working very well!



Get better soon.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From herbgatherer.hotmail.com Sun May 25 15:20:57 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: "pamela quayle" <herbgatherer.hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 08:20:57 -0400



> Hyssops also thrive on being cut down pretty much to the roots every year,

> which hares do for me.

>

I had a new experience this winter just after snowmelt - winter was also

severe here.  Found the rue had been pruned to about 3" of the ground with

all the semi-green leaves scattered around the plants on the ground.



Does this sound like hare?  They usually aren't a problem for me, but I'm

stymied what did this.  Rue has never been bothered before - I assumed

because of the bitterness.



Pamela



From hetta.spamcop.net Sun May 25 16:32:07 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 16:32:07 +0300



pamela quayle wrote:

> > Hyssops also thrive on being cut down pretty much to the roots every

> > year, which hares do for me.

>

> I had a new experience this winter just after snowmelt - winter was also

> severe here.  Found the rue had been pruned to about 3" of the ground with

> all the semi-green leaves scattered around the plants on the ground.

>

> Does this sound like hare?



Yes. Greens and chewed-off branches all around the plants, a few droppings 

here and there - that's hare.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From mccoy.newsguy.com Sun May 25 17:29:22 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Anya <mccoy.newsguy.com>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 10:29:22 -0400



Hi Henriette



Don't tell me your two varieties of lemongrass didn't make it :-(

Anya

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

(c)



From hetta.spamcop.net Sun May 25 17:36:52 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 17:36:52 +0300



Anya wrote:

>

> Don't tell me your two varieties of lemongrass didn't make it :-(



I have just one variety. This one is rather exotic, its taste is much better 

than the usual lemongrass one. I got it from a friend abroad, and it lives 

indoors.

Currently it looks gorgeous, with new leaves, wide and long, that point 

straight up - they're not even bent, like they have been over much of winter. 

It'll go outdoors for the summer in another two weeks - we might still get 

frost, and I'd hate to lose it.



The turmeric I got from the same friend didn't survive the previous winter ... 

(hint hint).



Henriette (You still have my address? And, more importantly, did I ever return 

the favor?)



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From joanr.shaw.ca Sun May 25 22:37:42 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Joan <joanr.shaw.ca>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:37:42 -0700



On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 07:36  AM, Henriette Kress wrote:



> Anya wrote:

>>

>> Don't tell me your two varieties of lemongrass didn't make it :-(

>

> I have just one variety. This one is rather exotic, its taste is much 

> better

> than the usual lemongrass one. I got it from a friend abroad, and it 

> lives

> indoors.

> Currently it looks gorgeous, with new leaves, wide and long, that point

> straight up - they're not even bent, like they have been over much of 

> winter.

> It'll go outdoors for the summer in another two weeks - we might still 

> get

> frost, and I'd hate to lose it.



I grow quite a few tropical plants in my sunroom (turmeric, ginger, 

cardamon, olive, teabush, bay, lemon verbena, pomegranite, guava, 

lemongrass to name some of  them) and never can decide whether I will 

put them out for the summer or not.  I did an experiment last year with 

3 neem  tree seedlings that I grew from seed. One outside, one in the 

sunroom and one under grow lights.  The only difference I saw was the 

outside grown one had a stronger stem on it  than the other two.  I 

usually leave the tender plants in the sunroom as I really don't want 

to bring any pests to the sunroom and it is easier to just leave them 

where they are.

>

Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



From mccoy.newsguy.com Mon May 26 04:55:46 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Anya <mccoy.newsguy.com>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 21:55:46 -0400



At 05:36 PM 5/25/2003 +0300, you wrote:

>Anya wrote:

>>

>> Don't tell me your two varieties of lemongrass didn't make it :-(

>

>I have just one variety. This one is rather exotic, its taste is much better 

>than the usual lemongrass one. I got it from a friend abroad, and it lives 

>indoors.

>Currently it looks gorgeous, with new leaves, wide and long, that point 

>straight up - they're not even bent, like they have been over much of

winter. 

>It'll go outdoors for the summer in another two weeks - we might still get 

>frost, and I'd hate to lose it.



Aha, that must be the Cymbopogon flexuous, the East Indian lemongrass. It

is much sweeter than the C. citratus (West Indian), and I love to make iced

tea and syrup from it. No stalk like the citratus, either. Both, however,

are commonly called fevergrass, and a tea is drunk to reduce fever.



>The turmeric I got from the same friend didn't survive the previous winter

... 

>(hint hint).



Ok, next vistit to the Indian market.....

>

>Henriette (You still have my address? And, more importantly, did I ever

return 

>the favor?)



No, no address, it is probably lost in the morass of my email archives. No

'return the favor' was done, but none was expected. Heck, the advice about

the liver support herbs was enough :-)

Anya

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

(c)



From honthaas1.centurytel.net Sun May 25 21:32:11 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Veronica Honthaas <honthaas1.centurytel.net>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:32:11 -0600



>..however I cannot seem to keep hyssop alive...I had all three colours 

>that I grew from seed.  Mine all died within a few years of my finding a 

>good use for them - figures.  I

>Herb.lists.ibiblio.org



Please share you uses for (and attraction to) hyssop. As I mentioned in an 

earlier post I just cannot warm up to this plant. I am looking for 

inspiration. Veronica



From hetta.spamcop.net Sun May 25 21:45:36 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 21:45:36 +0300



Veronica Honthaas wrote:

>

> Please share you uses for (and attraction to) hyssop. As I mentioned in an

> earlier post I just cannot warm up to this plant. I am looking for

> inspiration.



Hyssop is one of the strongest mint-family anti-inflammatories there are 

(thyme is another, and Monarda can be used interchangeably with thyme). 

And hyssop is tasty, too. I put it into teas for gut upset, cystitis, common 

cold, and so on. And it's pretty much specific for singer's throat.



I use flowering tops, cut just above the woody part; hung to dry in bunches, 

and, when dry (they don't bend but instead snap), snip them up into 2-3 cm 

bits with comfortable and sharp scissors.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From kveress.sympatico.ca Sun May 25 02:29:26 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: "Karoly Veress" <kveress.sympatico.ca>

Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 19:29:26 -0400



>

> - 2 x Stevia rebaudiana - first time I've ever seen this in Finland

(tropical,

>   perennial. I don't think it'll survive our winter even indoors, but I'll

>   give it a shot)



Isn't spring glorious - especially for us northerners . . .

I know for a fact that the Stevia will survive indoors, because mine has

done so for now something like 5 years.  Nicely cut it back and it will

thrive.



Margot in Canada



From Herbgrow30.aol.com Mon May 26 09:59:37 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Herbgrow30.aol.com

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 02:59:37 EDT



In a message dated 5/25/2003 10:38:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

hetta.spamcop.net writes:



> I have just one variety. This one is rather exotic, its taste is much 

> better 

> than the usual lemongrass one. I got it from a friend abroad, and it lives 

> indoors.

> Currently it looks gorgeous, with new leaves, wide and long, that point 

> straight up - they're not even bent, like they have been over much of 

> winter. 

> It'll go outdoors for the summer in another two weeks - we might still get 

> frost, and I'd hate to lose it.

> 



Hello all ~



My lemongrass did not survive our many snows here this winter and neither did 

my Vitex treelet.  Stevia always is an annual here on the East Coast of the 

U.S.  I usually try a few new plants each year, so I ordered Vietnamese celery, 

Henbane- Hyoscyamus niger,  and White dead nettle- Lamium maculatum (alba).  



What came back was tons of Melissa  off. (I can save seeds), and a lovely 

Lime balm; Figwort- scrophularia nodosa;  Horehound-  Marrubium vulgare; 

Horseradish- (amoracia rusticana); Calendula; Soapwort- saponaria off.(pink); St. 

Johns wort- (hypericum); Scullcap- scutellaria laterifolia; Thyme- thymus 

pulegioides (white magic); Valerian- valeriana off.; Evening Primrose- oenothera 

fruticosa; Black Cohosh- Cimicifuga racemosa; Balm of Gilead- cedronella 

cananiensis; Agrimony- agrimonia eupatoria; Boneset- eupatorium; Elecampane- inula 

helenium; Bee balm- monarda; Lobelia- lobelia cardinalis and inflata; Hyssop- 

hyssopus off (Common Blue); some of my lavenders (I also lost some); tons of mints, 

rosemary, oregano, dill, and fennel.



The fragrant rugosa roses are flourishing with all of this rain; and I lost 

some roses also but replaced them with 5 new ones.



Some of my  herb choices are for their beauty (Black Cohosh), but most I will 

use in new tinctures and/or dry for this year's teas.  



Warmly ~

Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From Herbgrow30.aol.com Mon May 26 10:04:56 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!

From: Herbgrow30.aol.com

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 03:04:56 EDT



In a message dated 5/25/2003 2:37:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

honthaas1.centurytel.net writes:



> >..however I cannot seem to keep hyssop alive...I had all three colours 

> >that I grew from seed.  Mine all died within a few years of my finding a 

> >good use for them - figures.  I

> >Herb.lists.ibiblio.org

> 

> Please share you uses for (and attraction to) hyssop. As I mentioned in an 

> earlier post I just cannot warm up to this plant. I am looking for 

> inspiration. Veronica

> 



This wasn't my post, but hyssop seems to be more of a tender perennial here.  

I have trouble keeping it also.  I have had 2 kinds of hyssop here (hyssopus 

off or Common Blue), and Licorice or a black hyssop because it has a dark stem 

and exudes a licorice scent and flavor.  The black comes back very easily.  

The blue has lasted, at most, only 3 years in the main herb garden.  Last year 

I had only one, common blue, come back out front, and one in the new smaller 

garden.  I love the plant and so do bees.  I use hyssop leaves in teas as it is 

a sedating plant.



Warmly ~



Mary L. Conley, ND

MS Natural Health, Herbalist

The Conley Farm ~ Online Classes ~ Spring classes forming



From ask.gtii.com Sun May 25 00:58:45 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Jeanne Burgess 

From: "Richard M. Ask" <ask.gtii.com>

Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:58:45 -0400



Does anyone have a website

or contact information on her?



TIA



Richard



From Avam57.aol.com Sun May 25 08:03:07 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Shatavari root

From: Avam57.aol.com

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:03:07 EDT



Has anyone had any experience with Shatavari root? It seems like a great herb 

fpr midlife hormonal shifts-great support while the body's adjusting  Anna in 

Spokane



From empirepd.yahoo.com Sun May 25 16:22:14 2003

To: Herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Feverfew question/issue

From: "Sam W." <empirepd.yahoo.com>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 06:22:14 -0700 (PDT)



I read with interest an exchange regarding Feverfew on

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-2-9-feverfew.html.

Does anyone have any knowledge of

side-effects/interactions of Nortriptyline (a

tricyclic anti-depressant commonly perscribed in low

doses for chronic and migraine headaches) and Feverfew

(Parthenolide)? I have developed what appears to be

some neurological symptoms after taking these two for

a short time for my headaches. I have read that

Feverfew may have some negitive effect on smooth

muscle tissue of the body. I fear that I may have done

some neurological or muscle tissue damage by taking

this combination or perhaps it is just Feverfew's

effect by itself. The issues I appear to be having are

with muscle control and the doctors I have seen don't

know what is going on and know nothing about Feverfew.

Do you know of anybody that might be an expert in this

or at least have knowledge? Any help would be greatly

appreciated. If the researchers do not have any

records of ill effects on humans, I might be their

first case.



Thanks much,

Sam Wetsel

empirepd.yahoo.com



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Sun May 25 20:41:00 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Feverfew question/issue

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:41:00 -0500



I would be curious to know how long you have been taking feverfew and at 

what dosage?

Linda S.



From empirepd.yahoo.com Mon May 26 01:57:38 2003

To: clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com,

 herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Feverfew question/issue

From: "Sam W." <empirepd.yahoo.com>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:57:38 -0700 (PDT)



Linda,



I only took it for about 6 days, one 380 mg tablet in

the morning and one 380 mg tablet in the evening. The

brand was Nature's Way (believe I got it at CVS), the

bottle recommends three of the 380 mg tablets a day. I

took it for my migraines and was taking nortrityline

(I believe about 5 or 10 mg a day) at the same time.

This was about a year ago. As I said, I discontinued

after 6 days as my tongue was feeling strange. I

continued the nortrityline for about a month and a

half longer before stopping that. Do you have any

knowledge to pass on?



Thanks much,

Sam

--- Linda Shipley <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com> wrote:

> I would be curious to know how long you have been

> taking feverfew and at 

> what dosage?



From GEOTANI.aol.com Mon May 26 03:35:33 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Feverfew question/issue

From: GEOTANI.aol.com

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 20:35:33 EDT



Hi Sam:

Parthenolide can inhibit serotonin release from platelets. If it also 

inhibits serotonin release in the central nervous system, then theoretically there 

may be an interaction with nortriptyline. 

Nortriptyline is a Tricyclic Antidepressant, and centrally increases 

serotonin in the synaptic cleft of neurons. Therefore feverfew would attenuate the 

effects of nortriptyline, meaning decreased effectiveness. Perhaps this is 

manifested in you as residual migraine and headache symptoms. This is a strictly 

pharmacological explanation.

The reported drug interactions with feverfew include:

1. Anticoagulant/Antiplatelet drugs (e.g., warfarin and aspirin): increased 

bleeding

2. Nonsteroidal Antiinflammatory drugs (e.g., Motrin, Aleve, etc.): decrease 

the effectiveness of feverfew.

"Post-feverfew syndrome" consists of nervousness, tension headaches, 

insomnia, joint pain or stiffness and tiredness.

Clinical studies of feverfew have used extracts containing 0.6-0.7% 

parthenolide. A Canadian product "used as a prophylactive against migraines"  is 

standardized to only 0.2% parthenolide. Perhaps you're just not getting enough 

parthenolide.

Hope this helps. Contact me offlist if you have questions.

Thanks.



Take care,

George Taniguchi, PharmD, MPH



From joanr.shaw.ca Sun May 25 23:06:20 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Summer!/Osteoarthritis

From: Joan <joanr.shaw.ca>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:06:20 -0700



On Saturday, May 24, 2003, at 11:06  PM, Henriette Kress wrote:

>>

> They are short-lived perennials, but they self-seed _profusely_. If 

> the plant

> you're pulling up is not a weed it's likely a hyssop. Hyssops also 

> thrive on being cut down pretty much to the roots every year, which 

> hares do for me.



I wasn't cutting them down properly I guess.  I will grow some hyssop 

seed this year and try again.  I  use hyssop in a cold remedy herb tea 

blend and I like the taste of the hyssop - it tastes like it should 

work.

>

> Get better soon.



Thank you Henriette.    I am almost back to normal.  Just some 

stiffness if I sit too long and some days a little pain but that is all 

getting better every week.  I am back to doing anything I 

want.....sometimes a little slower or for not as long as time but t hat 

is improving too.



That brings up something I was going to ask here.  I broke my hip in 

December, and the allopathic doctors say it takes about 6 months to one 

year to recover if you ever do.  They also figured I had osteoporosis, 

which I don't, and that I am guaranteed to get 

osteoarthritis....hehe.....I aim to prove them all wrong.   Some 

doctors just don't seem to have a  clue.  I want to prevent this 

happening.  I have started yoga again, as flexibility is supposed to 

help and I have been back to gardening almost a month after my injury 

(with a walker).     I know what to treat it with....but I don't have 

it and I don't want it <lol>. I  have read that anti-oxidants can 

prevent and treat osteoarthritis.



My diet is excellent as we raise most of our own organic vegetables, 

fruits and herbs.  I take mineral herbs as overnight infusions, mineral 

vinegars,  herb teas, a coffee substitute decoction that includes 

burdock, ginger, dandelion and other roots, herbs, and seeds.  I also 

take some tinctures once in a while(mostly for tonics as in staying 

healthy) and  supplements but not many.  Anything else I could do?  Not 

having the stupid accident in the first place is not an option <lol>.   

  Anything that stands out that I  may be missing??



Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net



From niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk Mon May 26 00:38:09 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] herbal midwifery

From: "Niamh Mcginley" <niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 22:38:09 +0100



Hello,

this is an urgent request to anyone out there that might know of sources to

start researching herbal midwifery. Particularly the treatment of early

threatened miscarriage. Any one know of any body of research conducted on

pregnant women or maybe birthing centres that use herbs?



If you have any leads, please give them, any at all. And if anyone knows a

herbal midwife in the UK especially, that would be great.



I'll leave my personal email:



niamh.nmcginley.fsnet.co.uk



thanks,

Namh



From HerbalSW.aol.com Mon May 26 05:10:39 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] herbal midwifery

From: HerbalSW.aol.com

Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 22:10:39 EDT



Wild yam, helonias, and cramp bark is a standard tincture I use

However, having had three myself, if the baby needs to abort itself, due to 

natural deficiencies, let it happen.

If it's about progesterone problems, other measures can be taken.

Don't fool with this without a lot of knowledge and understanding of the 

mother's health and the fetus' status

Catherine



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk Mon May 26 23:32:27 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] herbal midwifery

From: "Niamh Mcginley" <niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:32:27 +0100



> Wild yam, helonias, and cramp bark is a standard tincture I use

> However, having had three myself, if the baby needs to abort itself, due

to

> natural deficiencies, let it happen.

> If it's about progesterone problems, other measures can be taken.

> Don't fool with this without a lot of knowledge and understanding of the

> mother's health and the fetus' status

> Catherine

>



Catherine, thank you for replying. I am not treating anyone, just

researching, hopefully for the good of all of us. I know there is some

German study of Vitex and threatened miscarriage but can't find it. The

thing that staggered me was that the college of obs/gynae now think that low

progesterone levels are not a cause of miscarriage, but are the mechanism by

which a pregnancy destined to abort does so, hence the uselessness of

progesterone therapy to pregnant women. Like you said, don't mess with this.

So how can we know the status of the foetus at 6 weeks or 8 weeks, when it

usually happens? How can we as herbalists decide when it "should happen" as

you say? Clearly herbs are doing something that progesterone alone is not.



How did you arrive at your standard tincture? Was it something you learned

from literature or someone else or intuitive?



Thank you very much Julie for that contact, I will try to get an email

address tonight.



Many thanks,

Namh



From Juliesjames.aol.com Mon May 26 08:38:44 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] herbal midwifery

From: Juliesjames.aol.com

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 01:38:44 EDT



Hi-

I would contact Aviva Romm, the Director of the AHG, who is also an amazing 

midwife. I'm sure she'd be a great resource for whatever you need, or would 

point you in valuable directions.

I'll bet you could reach her at the AHG office, or through the website: 

http://www.americanherbalistsguild.com/

just in case you dont have it.



Good luck



Julie



From HerbalSW.aol.com Tue May 27 15:00:41 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] herbal midwifery

From: HerbalSW.aol.com

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 08:00:41 EDT



I was given the tincture from an old teacher of mine.  

I was unaware that the college of OBGYN believes that because a friend of 

mine was on progesterone for all three of her pregnancies ... oh well.



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From dmam.optonline.net Mon May 26 17:52:50 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: experiment

From: Peter Marino <dmam.optonline.net>

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:52:50 -0400



Try adding a fan on a timer in your sun room. The breeze will stimulate

stronger stem growth.



P.M.



****************************************************************************

****************************************************************************

****************************************************************************

****************************************************************************

******************************************************

  I did an experiment last year with

> 3 neem  tree seedlings that I grew from seed. One outside, one in the

> sunroom and one under grow lights.  The only difference I saw was the

> outside grown one had a stronger stem on it  than the other two.  I

> usually leave the tender plants in the sunroom as I really don't want

> to bring any pests to the sunroom and it is easier to just leave them

> where they are.

> >

> Joan

> My Country Garden

> http://www.mycountrygarden.net

>



From mterry.snet.net Mon May 26 21:16:51 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 11:16:51 -0700 (PDT)



Okay.  I admit to having a bad mattress that I'm

trying to scrape together money to replace, and a bit

more pounds on than I should be carrying...but I also

have struggled with lower back problems ever since a

back injury that necessitated a diskectomy and

laminectomy about 7.5 years ago (L4-L5, sciatica,

arggggg).



So, if you could put together the world's best

anti-inflammatory, what would you use?  I am on 25 mg.

Vioxx a day, and every time I try to go off it my back

goes into spasm.  It costs $30 a month just for the

co-pay, and I am about to be the sole renter of my

house, so I can't afford it.  I also take 400 mg.

Skelaxin as needed (Flexeril turned me into a zombie).

 I've recently started massage therapy, which at least

is keeping me moving.  Can anybody help me lay down

them burdens?



Thanks in advance,

May



From niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk Mon May 26 23:37:49 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: "Niamh Mcginley" <niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk>

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:37:49 +0100



I'd look into Harpagophytum procumbrens as you have muscle spasms as well.

Read about it though cos it isn't for everyone (very bitter).

Namh



From dan.awherbals.com Sat May 31 19:20:35 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: Dan <dan.awherbals.com>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:20:35 -0700



I am surprised no one suggested Bromelain. It is from the pineapple stem 

and is a proteolytic digestive enzyme. When taken away from food it is a 

very potent anti-inflamatory. It is the only thing that has ever touched my 

tendonitis.. make sure you get the 2400 gdu/gram quality.. The rest are 

junk..



Dan McDonley



From williamj.nac.net Tue May 27 01:13:39 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:13:39 -0400



: Have you tied Napoxyn...a lot cheaper than Vioxx...This is the Comercial

preparation  ALEVE



Having had a distinigrating spine for years I find I keep things in check

through four caps of Aleve, in divided doses.  When I get a bad attack I

have found, about once a year, that a Epidual by an

anetheziaologist...essentially a shot into the spine.  Does the trick and

lastsx about a year.  In addition get off the weight, try the Atkins Diet,

and go walking a couple miles a day.



Herbs.  take curicumin tablets...slow working, but stay on them regularly.



[put together the world's best

> anti-inflammatory, what would you use?  I am on 25 mg.

> Vioxx a day, and every time I try to go off it my back

> goes into spasm.  It costs $30 a month just for the

> co-pay



From mterry.snet.net Tue May 27 13:39:58 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 03:39:58 -0700 (PDT)



--- Bill Jacobson <williamj.nac.net> wrote:

> : Have you tied Napoxyn...a lot cheaper than

> Vioxx...This is the Comercial

> preparation  ALEVE

> 

> Having had a distinigrating spine for years I find I

> keep things in check

> through four caps of Aleve, in divided doses.  



Thanks, Bill, but I can't take any of the traditional

NSAIDS.  My stomach is extremely sensitive to them. 

My endoscopies are fascinating; they remind me of Carl

Sagan taking an imaginary trip to observe sunspots. 

Gastroenterologist said they're typical NSAID damage.



When

> I get a bad attack I

> have found, about once a year, that a Epidual by an

> anetheziaologist...essentially a shot into the

> spine.  Does the trick and

> lastsx about a year.  



Are you talking cortisone?



In addition get off the

> weight, try the Atkins Diet,

> and go walking a couple miles a day.



I certainly need the diet and exercise, but Atkins

wasn't for me...lost 5 pounds the first week, then

nothing for three weeks after.  A more traditional

diet like Weight Watchers works--it's keeping the

weight off after that's the problem.

> 

> Herbs.  take curicumin tablets...slow working, but

> stay on them regularly.

> 

Thanks, I believe I'll give this a try.



May



From williamj.nac.net Tue May 27 18:51:57 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:51:57 -0400



I once took Pregnezone during an attack...never again.  The  Epidural is a

cortisone shot directly into the spinal cord and has to be done by an

anetheiologist who is a real artist..after doing this a couple years she has

tattooed the spots on my lower spine so she can shoot me up.  I do this

usually once a year in the spring.  My orthopedist says I can have three

shots a year of this, but one has been enough so far.



I am lucky.  the naprozn I

've taken for 20 years with no problems



Bill

----- Original Message -----

From: "May Terry" <mterry.snet.net>

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:39 AM

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories



From mterry.snet.net Wed May 28 02:35:52 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:35:52 -0700 (PDT)



--- Bill Jacobson <williamj.nac.net> wrote:

> I once took Pregnezone during an attack...never

> again.  The  Epidural is a

> cortisone shot directly into the spinal cord and has

> to be done by an

> anetheiologist who is a real artist



Yikes...I'm not a sissy, but this gives me the

creeps...are you sure it's not harmful systemically?

> 

> I am lucky.  the naprozn I

> 've taken for 20 years with no problems

> 

Can't take any of the old NSAIDs.  They kill my

stomach.  The Vioxx doesn't, but, as I said, I just

don't want to take it forever...just got my income tax

refund back today, though, so new mattress here I

come!



May



From Foxhillers.aol.com Tue May 27 11:37:53 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org,

 mterry.snet.net

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: Foxhillers.aol.com

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 04:37:53 EDT



In a message dated 5/26/03 2:17:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mterry.snet.net 

writes:



> Okay.  I admit to having a bad mattress that I'm

> trying to scrape together money to replace, and a bit

> more pounds on than I should be carrying...but I also

> have struggled with lower back problems ever since a

> back injury that necessitated a diskectomy and

> laminectomy about 7.5 years ago (L4-L5, sciatica,

> arggggg).

> 

> So, if you could put together the world's best

> anti-inflammatory, what would you use?  I am on 25 mg.

> Vioxx a day, and every time I try to go off it my back

> goes into spasm.  It costs $30 a month just for the

> co-pay, and I am about to be the sole renter of my

> house, so I can't afford it.  I also take 400 mg.

> Skelaxin as needed (Flexeril turned me into a zombie).

> I've recently started massage therapy, which at least

> is keeping me moving.  Can anybody help me lay down

> them burdens?

> 

> Thanks in advance,

> May

> 

Mary

   I deal with similar issues without the surgery and the VIOXX.  The herbs 

Gingko biloba and Tumeric and St. John's wort serve as anti-inflammatories for 

me.  But, what provides the most relief is additional Magnesium to 1000 mg per 

day and MSM (6 to 10 grams/day) with vitamin C (3 to 5 grams per day).



Hope this helps

mjh



From mterry.snet.net Wed May 28 02:19:08 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:19:08 -0700 (PDT)



--- Foxhillers.aol.com wrote:

> 

> The herbs 

> Gingko biloba and Tumeric and St. John's wort serve

> as anti-inflammatories for 

> me.  But, what provides the most relief is

> additional Magnesium to 1000 mg per 

> day and MSM (6 to 10 grams/day) with vitamin C (3 to

> 5 grams per day).

> 

Thank you--do you use supermarket turmeric or

something else?  I believe not everyone feels it's a

very effective form.



May



From williamj.nac.net Wed May 28 17:30:38 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:30:38 -0400



CUricumin is the active ingredient and you can find tumeric extract that has

a standardized amount of the CUricumin.  But it is rather expensive.  I buy

tumeric in bulk, by the half pound and make my own caps.  one thousand mg a

day suits me.

tumeric.  I think you need to find what works for you for we are all

different.  You can also start using tumeric in your cooking, for it is used

as a base or beginning spice in most East India dishes.  When I visit my

Indian friends in Ottawa for a week I just stop taking tumeric for I get it

in every meal.



Bill

).> >

> Thank you--do you use supermarket turmeric or

> something else?  I believe not everyone feels it's a

> very effective form.

>

> May

>

>



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 27 14:52:12 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 07:52:12 -0400



>So, if you could put together the world's best

>anti-inflammatory, what would you use?  I am on 25 mg.

>Vioxx a day, and every time I try to go off it my back

>goes into spasm.  It costs $30 a month just for the

>co-pay, and I am about to be the sole renter of my

>house, so I can't afford it.  I also take 400 mg.

>Skelaxin as needed (Flexeril turned me into a zombie).

>  I've recently started massage therapy, which at least

>is keeping me moving.  Can anybody help me lay down

>them burdens?



about any time back & bones come up, you'll hear solomon's seal from me.  As 

an antiinflammatory for vertabrae, you might possibly combine it with fresh 

black cohosh tincture 75/25. You might aid the massage therapy by making 

some antispamodic Kava kava oil:  get some good quality root, grind it up, 

and let it sit in almond oil in a crock pot on low for a week or so, then 

use this for the massage.  Its very relaxing, especially if warmed, and has 

the nicest earthy aroma.



But for sure, use the Sol. Seal.  I can personally attest to its usefulness 

in treating the slipped disc I had.



From mterry.snet.net Wed May 28 02:16:15 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:16:15 -0700 (PDT)



--- jim mcdonald <multiflorum.hotmail.com> wrote:

> 

> about any time back & bones come up, you'll hear

> solomon's seal from me.

> 

> But for sure, use the Sol. Seal.  I can personally

> attest to its usefulness 

> in treating the slipped disc I had.

> 

Okay, now I'll have to find it in bloom, since false

Solomon's Seal is at least as plentiful around here,

and I can't tell the diff unless it's blooming...then

what do I do?  What part do I use, prepared how?



Thanks Jim,

May



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 28 02:31:16 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 19:31:16 -0400



> > about any time back & bones come up, you'll hear

> > solomon's seal from me.

> >

> > But for sure, use the Sol. Seal.  I can personally

> > attest to its usefulness

> > in treating the slipped disc I had.

> >

>Okay, now I'll have to find it in bloom, since false

>Solomon's Seal is at least as plentiful around here,

>and I can't tell the diff unless it's blooming...then

>what do I do?  What part do I use, prepared how?



unless you're north of Mich, its probably bloomed already, and you'd be able 

to tell by looking for the remnants of the blossoms.  After you become 

familiar with them, you can tell which is which 90% of the time... just 

because you can.  False Solomon's Seal will still have the stalk of the 

terminal flowers, the True Solomon's Seal may still have the flower stems 

underneath (if you've got the P. Biflorum, it'll look like an upside down 

Y).  You can also tell by the root color... the False is pretty 

yellow/ivory, the true is much whiter.



Normally, you'd gather the roots in the fall.  DON'T DIG THE PLANT UP... 

trace down the stem, find the rhizome in the ground, trace it back a couple 

inches, cut it and pull out the back end of the root.  This way, you won't 

disturb the growing portion of the plant at all.  Areas I harvest like that 

have shown no impact at all.  Many cut roots even put up folioage from the 

cut end the next year, and that results in more berries and more plants.



But you probably don't want to wait till fall, eh?  Avena Botanicals sells 

Sol. Seal Tincture, as does herbalist & alchemist.  Since the dosage is low, 

you could just dig up a root or two (size can vary widely) and tincture a 

small quantity, then do more in the fall to have on hand. 5-15 drops of 

tincture, 2-3 x daily has worked fine for me and all the people I've worked 

with.



From williamj.nac.net Wed May 28 17:22:23 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:22:23 -0400



> Lucily, here in New Jersey, they are both blooming now and I have a couple

distinguishing points to make.  False Solomon's Seal does not have an

absolutely straight stem, it jogs ever so slightly, sort of like bamboo,

after the leaf nodule. True Solomon's seal has a straight stem.  Also Jim's

point about the color of the root is correct, though some very old Solomon's

Seal tends to be brown skinned, but generally as you pull up the rizome the

true is white and the false is ivory or brown.



Bill> > > >

> >Okay, now I'll have to find it in bloom, since false

> >Solomon's Seal is at least as plentiful around here,

> >and I can't tell the diff unless it's blooming...then

> >what do I do?  What part do I use, prepared how?



From GEOTANI.aol.com Wed May 28 05:19:19 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories

From: GEOTANI.aol.com

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:19:19 EDT



To mterry.snet.net:

Vioxx is made by Merck. If you have a cap on your prescription benefits, and 

exceed it, you may be eligible for the Merck Patient Assistance Program, which 

provides medication free.

Some manufacturers have quite high income ceilings.

They don't have an 800 number for patients, but they do have a number for 

health professionals that may prescribe the Vioxx for you: (800)994-2111.

Hope this helps.



Take care,

George Taniguchi, PharmD, MPH

Email: geotani.aol.com



From hikirsty.yahoo.com Tue May 27 00:12:41 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re:Calendula for slow healing ulcers

From: Kirsty Kingsley <hikirsty.yahoo.com>

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 14:12:41 -0700 (PDT)



Hi, has anyone use Calendula for slow healing leg ulcers, in particular have you used it as a compress (calendula tea being used) or have you used an ointment or lotion? My husbands grandfather, 86 years old has a big ulcer which has not healed and is keeping him up at night.

I have organic calendula infused macadamia oil that I can make into an ointment but think the compress would be better.  I know that there would be herbs internally however am a herbal student and would prefer to try something topically. 

 

Any help would be appreciated. 

 

Kirsty K 

South Aust



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 27 14:47:01 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re:Calendula for slow healing ulcers

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 07:47:01 -0400



>Hi, has anyone use Calendula for slow healing leg ulcers, in particular 

>have you used it as a compress (calendula tea being used) or have you used 

>an ointment or lotion? My husbands grandfather, 86 years old has a big 

>ulcer which has not healed and is keeping him up at night.

>I have organic calendula infused macadamia oil that I can make into an 

>ointment but think the compress would be better.  I know that there would 

>be herbs internally however am a herbal student and would prefer to try 

>something topically.



The calendula would probably be well matched in such a case with fresh 

plantain, applied and changed every few hours as a poultice.



From liveoak.ozarkisp.net/ Tue May 27 15:47:43 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re:Calendula for slow healing ulcers

From: "Bob" <liveoak.ozarkisp.net/>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 07:47:43 -0500



Jim,

  I have a new leg ulcer, diabetic and the first one (ulcer). 

I've no idea how I got it. Anyway, when I saw the first post I 

used the Calendula, and remembering the relief the plantain 

provides my cracked hands, made a poultice. Now, I have also 

taken Golden Seal extract (40 drops) to help combat internal 

infection. Is the GS counter productive, an assistant, or 

unnecessary.  Am developing stomach cramps and the expected bowel 

problem.



Bob Root



From mwherbs.cox.net Tue May 27 17:30:02 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Re:Calendula for slow healing ulcers

From: Sharon Hodges-Rust <mwherbs.cox.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 07:30:02 -0700



>

I would try soaks or compresses and the salve in the off time to keep 

the tissue soft. I would also add something that would help the 

circulation and do a bit of nerve repair like Saint John's wort oil 

it would have the added benefit of reducing the pain a bit too, or 

maybe some hawthorn added to the soak.

I think that it would take a bit of persistence and consistence. 

without seeing the wound it would be hard to say if it needs to be 

kept moist and when to start  letting it dry a bit. Another old 

recipe recorded by Frances Densmore for gangrenous wound- inner bark 

of white pine( from a young tree, wild plum(from a young tree) and 

wild cherry boil until all the barks are soft then pound out and make 

a poultice or dry and reconstitute the pulp to put on a wound.



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 27 21:43:49 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re:Calendula for slow healing ulcers

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:43:49 -0400



>Jim,

>   I have a new leg ulcer, diabetic and the first one (ulcer).

>I've no idea how I got it. Anyway, when I saw the first post I

>used the Calendula, and remembering the relief the plantain

>provides my cracked hands, made a poultice. Now, I have also

>taken Golden Seal extract (40 drops) to help combat internal

>infection. Is the GS counter productive, an assistant, or

>unnecessary.  Am developing stomach cramps and the expected bowel

>problem.



Goldenseal wouldn't be my first, secong third or fourth choice for 

"combatting internal infection".  The Plantain has antibiotic effects, and 

is particularly good for Puss-y infections (wrote that once in a handout, 

but ~without~ the "-", and someone called back to say she thought it was "a 

crude way of refering to vaginitis(!!!!)".  I had NO idea what she was 

talking about, till I looked at the handout...).



Anyways, if there's a systemic infection, you might think echinacea, wild 

indigo, oregon grape... but without being clear on all the infinite details, 

there's no way I could be able to discern between the many options.  I can 

say, though, Goldenseal probably isn't a very good one.



From rochelle.ntlworld.com Tue May 27 01:27:42 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Herb I have never heard of

From: "Rochelle Marsden" <rochelle.ntlworld.com>

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 23:27:42 +0100



I have just had a phone call wondering if I had any of a herbal tincture

called Life Root or Packera aurea. I don't and  it is not in the catalogue

of my herbal supplier.  I wonder if it had another name or if it was one I

couldn;t get hold of in UK because it is an American herb like Ceanothus. I

have found it in my Hoffmann book but not anywhere else under that name.



Regards

Rochelle



www.rochellemarsden.co.uk



From recluse1.earthlink.net Tue May 27 02:37:17 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herb I have never heard of

From: Tuckered Tortoise <recluse1.earthlink.net>

Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 16:37:17 -0700



golden ragwort...if that is any help.

diane



At 11:27 PM 5/26/2003 +0100, you wrote:

>I have just had a phone call wondering if I had any of a herbal tincture

>called Life Root or Packera aurea. I don't and  it is not in the catalogue

>of my herbal supplier.  I wonder if it had another name or if it was one I

>couldn;t get hold of in UK because it is an American herb like Ceanothus. I

>have found it in my Hoffmann book but not anywhere else under that name.



From hetta.spamcop.net Tue May 27 10:54:21 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herb I have never heard of

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:54:21 +0300



Tuckered Tortoise wrote:

> golden ragwort...if that is any help.



Senecio aureus? Is that a Packera nowadays? Live and learn.

It does contain livertoxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids...



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 27 16:49:44 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Migraines & other stuff to use

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:49:44 -0400



Though Feverfew is the most advertised "herb for migraines", there are other 

very effective ways to address this.  My favorite "base formula" (the idea I 

start with before adding or subtracting other herbs based on individual 

need) is equal parts Wood Betony (betonica, not pedicularis), fresh Black 

Cohosh & Jamiacan Dogwood tinctures.  A dropperful, taken 3x daily, or as 

needed AS SOON as even an INKLING of a migraine is felt will lessen its 

intensity & duration.



Regular use of Wood Betony on its own will decrease the occurance of 

migraines, and is an amazing restorative nervine tonic.  One woman I worked 

with went from having migraines several times a week, to almost never having 

them at all.  If they come back (stress levels), she starts back on the wood 

betony regularly & they'll disappear again till her stress outweighs her 

taking care of herself.



She'd used feverfew before and not been all that impressed with the results.



From HerbalSW.aol.com Tue May 27 17:02:02 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Migraines & other stuff to use

From: HerbalSW.aol.com

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:02:02 EDT



I have had NO success with feverfew for migraines and I get the ones you need 

to throw up and sleep it off.

As for wood betony, can you take that while breastfeeding?



Catherine M. Wood, LCSW, CADC, ADS

Eagle Spirit Healing Center

Where Your Spirit Learns To Soar

www.eaglespirithealingcenter.com



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 27 17:14:30 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] threatened miscarriage & humility

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:14:30 -0400



One of the women I work with had a horiible pregnancy... threatened 

miscarriage, terrible nausea, spotting, contractions... almost everything 

bad that could happen was.  She spent... four? five? months of her pregnancy 

in bed, on medications and taking steroids to build up the babies lungs in 

case of premature delivery.  She was sick pretty much throughout, and it was 

a very distressing situation.



I, of course, was quietly afraid that this was all very distressing, because 

I saw it as trying to force a pregnancy that was not working to work no 

matter what.  The amount of drugs being used was freaky, and I worried that 

if this baby was born, that there'd be a high potential for terrible 

troubles.  Top it off, the mother has a lousy diet, no interest in natural 

medicine, doen't exercise & is a complete stress ball with numerous 

preexisting health imbalances.



The baby was born, labor was very hard, but now, 7 months later, this 

beautiful, healthy, bright eyed bugger is crawling aroung the office I'm I'm 

trying to teach him to say "root".  All of my fears and trepidations, though 

justified, were for naught.



Looking back, If I were to see the same situation play out again, I probably 

~still~ think I'd be fearful for trying to "force" things... but I'd also 

have the humility I've gained for watching a situation play out where 

everyting seemed so wrong and worked out so right.  In a field where 

"alternative practitioners" of all sorts can sometimes be as arrogant as MDs 

(haven't we all met them?), a foundation of humility will make our practice 

all the more sound.



just some thoughts...



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Tue May 27 18:32:13 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] threatened miscarriage & humility

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:32:13 -0400



Top it off, the mother has a lousy diet, no interest in natural

> medicine, doen't exercise & is a complete stress ball with numerous

> preexisting health imbalances.

>

> The baby was born, labor was very hard, but now, 7 months later, this

> beautiful, healthy, bright eyed bugger is crawling aroung the office I'm

I'm

> trying to teach him to say "root



I find that "high stress moms" frequently have "threatened miscarriage"- its

that "contracted" way of being, perhaps? Also have harder labors- not

trusting their bodies and having too much fear and anxiety. The nausea is

most likely from a poor diet- although I had it horribly with my boys and

not too bad with my daughter...and my diet was better with the boys...

I would be likely to try nervines(Motherwort,Oat,Lemon Balm come to

mind)with the stress moms- if they were in a place of accepting

responsibility for their health...but I also find many want to defer

responsibility to someone else(doctors) and end up with the whole shebang of

drugs in pregnancy and in labor too...



It is amazing that a healthy little guy can come from such a situation...and

they do end up healthier if they are nursed, as well- give them a little

more vital essence...even if moms diet is poor it is better than formula, i

think...



Michelle



From HerbsAcadiana.aol.com Wed May 28 06:36:24 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] threatened miscarriage & humility

From: HerbsAcadiana.aol.com

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 23:36:24 EDT



It is amazing that a healthy little guy can come from such a situation...and

>they do end up healthier if they are nursed, as well- give them a little

>more vital essence...even if moms diet is poor it is better than formula, i

>think...

>

>Michelle



My Mom had 11 kids in the slums of So. Philly and surrounds.  We all nearly 

starved during the depression and the result of Dad's drinking up the grocery 

money.  Mom's diet was horrendous and so was ours.  We all 11 thrived (Adam 

died at 18 mths from meningitis after measles-before antibiotics), and have above 

average IQ's.  It did affect our teeth, however.  Mom is now 83.  She 

delivered most of us at home, nursed all of her babies except me-I was allergic, and 

even had one completely painless delivery.



I think the human race can take a lot of abuse and was designed to.  Not the 

ideal, but not the end.



My big complaint is that since pain doesn't kill, nature hasn't come up with 

a better way for humans to give birth.



Henrietta (Traiteusse)



From Herbmednurse.aol.com Thu May 29 02:30:46 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] threatened miscarriage & humility

From: Herbmednurse.aol.com

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:30:46 EDT



In a message dated 5/27/03 10:32:24 AM, lakshmi.kingcon.com writes:



<< Top it off, the mother has a lousy diet, no interest in natural



> medicine, doen't exercise & is a complete stress ball with numerous



> preexisting health imbalances. >>



most midwives that I've worked with say that moms who have a lot of 

nausea/vomiting are B vitamin deficient; they give them 100 mg. in a B complex, or 

frequent doses of brewer's yeast and staying away from supplemental vitamin C(also 

helps with breast feeding) those that were threatened miscarriages were 

started on high dosages of natural vitamin E (d-tocopherol - mixed tocopherols 

preferably - not dl- the synthetic one) in doses of 800 IU/day.  They also liked 

to give them false unicorn, black haw/cramp bark, red raspberry, wild yam, 

catnip and passionflower.  

Stressed out moms are already depleted in B vits - while I can't think of the 

herbs specifically that may provide those - taking an inexpensive form of B 

complex may help.



From Juliesjames.aol.com Thu May 29 05:56:39 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] threatened miscarriage & humility

From: Juliesjames.aol.com

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:56:39 EDT



In a message dated 5/28/03 4:31:13 PM, Herbmednurse.aol.com writes:



> those that were threatened miscarriages were 

>started on high dosages of natural vitamin E (d-tocopherol - mixed 

tocopherols

>preferably - not dl- the synthetic one) in doses of 800 IU/day.



Only for the first and maybe into the second trimesters, though: the high 

levels of E can cause abnormal placental adherence when kept up that long.

Sorry, I know it's off topic, but I've seen some problems arise with that one.

Back to herbs now...



Julie



From lullwater.airmail.net Tue May 27 19:55:41 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories/colon

From: Debbie <lullwater.airmail.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:55:41 -0500



If one were aiming at the gastro system, leaky gut, then what would be

the recommendations/amts? Debbie



From hetta.spamcop.net Tue May 27 20:23:59 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Anti-inflammatories/colon

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:23:59 +0300



Debbie wrote:



> If one were aiming at the gastro system, leaky gut, then what would be

> the recommendations/amts? Debbie



The very first thing one would have to do would be to _discontinue_ the 

offending food(s).



Then, you can use herbs. Try a combo of mallow (leaf, root, flower - whatever 

you have), calendula petals, epilobium leaf, and hyssop.



That helps mucous membrane (mallow), heals wounds (calendula), helps 

the gut in general and is slightly astringent (epilobium) and is 

anti-inflammatory (hyssop).



But none of that will help if you continue to irritate your gut.



Quick allergy test: which are the food(s) you just can't do without? 

That's the foods you'll have to stop eating. It'll be tough for 2-3 days, and 

difficult for about 2 weeks, but then you'll feel so much better that you'll 

wonder why you ever did eat such poison.



Another quick allergy test: take your pulse before and after eating something 

you suspect might be a problem. If it's 10-15 points higher within 15 

minutes, stop eating that particular food.



Another quick allergy test: food that has you running to the loo with 

explosive diarrhea pretty much immediately you've eaten it is a food you're 

severely allergic to. And such a food is _extremely_ irritating to your gut.



Then, of course, there are the longer-term tests for offending foods, but the 

bits above can give you a pointer in the right direction.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk Tue May 27 19:59:40 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] was herbal midwifery, now Vitex and PMS

From: "Niamh Mcginley" <niamhmcginley.tiscali.co.uk>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 17:59:40 +0100



> I was unaware that the college of OBGYN believes that because a friend of

> mine was on progesterone for all three of her pregnancies ... oh well.



Yes Catherine it is true, this is the British College by the way. I read a

paper by them saying the therapy was useless, and that the main reason it is

still used is to make patient and especially doctor feel they are doing

something. It's a bit of a minefield. But I suppose drugs ned to have a

significant percentage of effectiveness before they are rated, and that

would not mean it didn't help a significant few. That's just me speculating,

the research just says useless. How was your friend feeling on progesterone?

I believe patients feel it is like their worst premenstrual nightmare,

depression, irritability, weepiness.



In one Vitex monograph I read that it shouldn't be given to women with a

type of PMS suggestive of a progesterone overbalance- depression,

irritability and weepiness etc. Do you lot steer clear like this, or have

you treated women of this sort that managed fine with Vitex? And can anyone

describe that type of premenstrual syndrome more fully? The suggestion makes

sense, I was just wondering if it was true, or if Vitex has a more

amphoteric action perhaps.



Thanks again, and thanks for the email adress Henriette.



Namh



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Tue May 27 21:05:49 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] was herbal midwifery, now Vitex and PMS

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:05:49 -0400



>In one Vitex monograph I read that it shouldn't be given to women with a

>type of PMS suggestive of a progesterone overbalance- depression,

>irritability and weepiness etc. And can anyone

>describe that type of premenstrual syndrome more fully?



Think pulsatilla, or one of the related anemones, in small doses (5-15 

drops) taken as needed.



From joycew.triton.net Tue May 27 20:31:27 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] slow healing ulcers

From: joycew.triton.net

Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:31:27 -0400 (EDT)



>Another old recipe recorded by Frances Densmore for gangrenous wound-> inner bark of white pine( from a young tree, wild plum(from a young >tree) and wild cherry boil until all the barks are soft then pound >out and make a poultice or dry and reconstitute the pulp to put on a >wound.



Do not use turpentine or other skin irritants on slow healing ulcers (most of your pine based herbs).  They blister and irritate skin and may cause more harm than good.  A slow healing ulcer is not necessarily gangrenous.



Why is the person having a hard time healing?  Bed sores?  Diabetes?  Poor circulation to the area?  Pinpointing and addressing the internal issues will help you choose the correct protocol - even if only external.



Without knowing ANYTHING other than a slow healing ulcer, I would probably look to using gentle mucilaginous herbs such as comfrey or marshamllow soaks/pountices (at LEAST 2x daily) combined with application of a healing oil such as St. Johnswort or Calendula, mixed with Vitmain E, inbetween soaks.  



Massage above the area to improve circulation (If it is on the foot, massage hip joint, thigh, calf and ankle)  Raise foot periodically to increase circulation.

Peace

JoyceW

    



From phosphor.hotkey.net.au Wed May 28 01:49:53 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb]  now Vitex and PMS

From: "Phosphor" <phosphor.hotkey.net.au>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:49:53 +1000



<In one Vitex monograph I read that it shouldn't be given to women with a

type of PMS suggestive of a progesterone overbalance- depression,

irritability and weepiness etc.>



estrogen dominance - angry

progesterone dominance - weepy



too simple? or a reasonable guideline?



andrew



From jab.barron-net.fsnet.co.uk Wed May 28 14:37:34 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Motherwort (Leonurus cardiaca) for tachycardia

From: "Jeremy Barron" <jab.barron-net.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:37:34 +0100



Hi



I would be interested to hear of anyone's experience of using Motherwort 

(Leonurus cardiaca) as a treatment for sinus tachycardia due to anxiety.



I occasionally experience this problem myself. My GP has confirmed this 

as simple tachycardia and in the past has prescribed Propranolol (a beta 

blocker). I've found cognitive therapy very useful for managing anxiety 

but I still have the odd occasion where it hits 'out of the blue' and I 

seem to have very little control over it without resorting to 

pharmaceuticals.



If Motherwort is effective, in what form is it best taken and should it 

be used only when required or taken on a more regular basis?



Jeremy

Cornwall, UK



jab.barron-net.fsnet.co.uk



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 28 16:50:38 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] "herbal" mattress

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 09:50:38 -0400



>don't want to take it forever...just got my income tax

>refund back today, though, so new mattress here I

>come!



heh... this is actually kind of herbal...



My wife and I, after our old mattress was shot, purchased a latex 

mattress... made from the actual latex of the rubber tree, which is 

antimicrobial and doesn't retain moisture.  You don't have to flip it, its 

natural, so not allergenic AND it WAY nicer than the old spring and coil 

kind, AND didn't cost a whole lot... so... maybe look into that.



From hetta.spamcop.net Wed May 28 16:55:57 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] "herbal" mattress

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:55:57 +0300



jim mcdonald wrote:



> My wife and I, after our old mattress was shot, purchased a latex

> mattress... made from the actual latex of the rubber tree, which is

> antimicrobial and doesn't retain moisture.  You don't have to flip it, its

> natural, so not allergenic 



... people do get allergic to natural rubber. In fact, people get _very_ 

allergic to natural rubber.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Wed May 28 17:11:53 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] "herbal" mattress

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 09:11:53 -0500



Hello. I am allergic to latex.

Linda S.



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 28 18:04:25 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] "herbal" mattress

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:04:25 -0400



> > My wife and I, after our old mattress was shot, purchased a latex

> > mattress... made from the actual latex of the rubber tree, which is

> > antimicrobial and doesn't retain moisture.  You don't have to flip it, 

>its

> > natural, so not allergenic

>

>... people do get allergic to natural rubber. In fact, people get _very_

>allergic to natural rubber.

>

>Henriette

>

>Hello. I am allergic to latex. Linda S.



umm.... uhhh...



mphgnh... (rempve foot)



Okay... well... if you're NOT allergic to latex (which is, of course, 

covered up by fabric), its a good choice, and can be recycled (with a bit of 

effort finding the right place to drop it off) much easier than a 

conventional mattress.  And mold doesn't grow in it... and critters don't 

live in it... I think... I don't know...



I like mine...



From elsaucc.msn.com Wed May 28 21:10:47 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] "herbal" mattress

From: "Elsa Bruguier" <elsaucc.msn.com>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:10:47 -0400



... people do get allergic to natural rubber. In fact, people get _very_ 

allergic to natural rubber.



this is an imp. (treading on off-topic) thread.

though healthcare workers have been dealing with latex sensitivity/allergy

for some time, individuals outside that arena can also be affected.  i'm an athlete who reacted to 3 different items in which latex was a component--- 

1.   within 5 days of a knee surgery, i reacted to something in the surgical

strips used to cover my athroscopic surgery site.  what happened?--  when i

removed the strips, i'd formed blood blisters on those areas where the strips

touched my skin. 

2.    i used athletic tape that made my skin itch and form an angry rash 

within 30 mins.;

3.    i also developed a skin reaction when wearing a neoprene thigh sleeve 

(athletic equipment); hard, fluid-filled, itchy blisters formed around the 

periphery of my leg where the sleeve contacted my leg (i'm not sure why 

blistering/reacting didn't form a blister shaped sleeve where it completely 

covered my thigh).

if one is singly sensitive/allergic to natural rubber, it can be easily 

diagnosed.  there is a blood test for natural rubber allergy/sensitivity.  

however, if one is not exclusively reacting to natural rubber, the diagnosis is 

not always straightforward.  for example, though i reacted to 3 diff. items that 

contained natural rubber, when i was tested for a natural rubber/latex allergy, 

my bloodwork was negative for rubber anti-bodies; therefore, i am not reactingt 

to the natral rubber, but to something that's contained therein/combined with.  

i will be tested further to determine which byproduct of latex/component freq. 

used with rubber i am sensitive to.  (i believe the NIH has info on their web 

site.)

latex sensitivity/allergy can impact daily (non-athletic) activities in ways one 

might not consider:  getting a room done in your house, or at work and latex 

paint is being used?  the latex sensitive/allergic person cannot be present; 

food service workers wear gloves--  the person who is latex sensitive or 

allergic could "react" during/after food consumption; a visit to the dentist, 

doctor, etc.?  those folks use latex gloves/tubes all the time, so make your 

sensitivity/allergy known.

sensitivities/allergies can span a range from itchy (seemingly just nerve-

wracking/uncomfortable) to life-threatening (anaphylaxsis); however, once 

sensitive/allergic *all* subsequent exposures heighten the sensitivity/allergy.



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 28 18:12:28 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Solomon's Seal ID

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:12:28 -0400



> > Lucily, here in New Jersey, they are both blooming now and I have a 

>couple

>distinguishing points to make.  False Solomon's Seal does not have an

>absolutely straight stem, it jogs ever so slightly, sort of like bamboo,

>after the leaf nodule. True Solomon's seal has a straight stem.  Also Jim's

>point about the color of the root is correct, though some very old 

>Solomon's

>Seal tends to be brown skinned, but generally as you pull up the rizome the

>true is white and the false is ivory or brown.



Up here, we've got ziggy-zaggy stemmed TRUE Solomon's Seal... really 

(hopefully my latex/allergy debockle hasn't destroyed my credibility...).  

the stem, though, is a bit more delicate, and not as zigzag as the false.  

Same with the leaves... get to know them both throughout the year, and by 

fall you might be able to tell just by looking.



Doug Elliot's Book "Wild Roots" has the best (really, the ~only~ good) 

picture of the root I've ever seen, though the info on it isn't the 

greatest.  But not to worry... if you're harvesting it in the fall, after 

the berries have dropped, that'll be easy... look for a couple blue/black 

berries that may still be hanging on, or the upside down "Y" stem they fell 

off of... that's a positive ID.  The plant turns a straw golden-yellow in 

the fall, which will help you find it in dense undergrowth.



From joycew.triton.net Wed May 28 20:18:40 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] solomon's seal

From: joycew.triton.net

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:18:40 -0400 (EDT)



>Up here, we've got ziggy-zaggy stemmed TRUE Solomon's Seal... really 

>the stem, though, is a bit more delicate, and not as zigzag as the >false. Same with the leaves... get to know them both throughout the >year, and by fall you might be able to tell just by looking.



The Ottawa call the zig/zag stem variety of true solomon's seal Twisted Stalk - and emphasis for use is more on arthritic conditions) (doctrine of signatures, perhaps) 



I find twisted stalk more often in sandy loam soil than in clay loam soil

Peace

JoyceW



From JCrobin838.aol.com Wed May 28 20:34:23 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] solomon's seal

From: JCrobin838.aol.com

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:34:23 EDT



This is about to bloom in PA and is so pretty.



Jackie



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Wed May 28 21:42:08 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Ornamentals

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:42:08 -0400



Went to this amazing nursery out near Ann Arbor, and they had lots of herbal 

delights... like Black Cohosh & Pulsatilla & thises & thats... but they were 

all "ornamental varieties"... as an example, the Black Cohosh was darker 

tinted than "natural" and bred so the racame... raceme... how do you spell 

this? so the flowering stalk would be shorter.



Anybody know how this tinckering might affect the medicinal virtues?



From Herbmednurse.aol.com Thu May 29 02:35:10 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] tooth plaque

From: Herbmednurse.aol.com

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:35:10 EDT



I've got some little ones that have horrible plaque build up no matter what 

we use in tooth paste, powder, or rinse.  Is there anything herbal that I could 

prepare in a mouth rinse or tooth powder that would really help loosen the 

plaque the prevent further build-up? TIA



From cyli.visi.com Thu May 29 03:29:47 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] tooth plaque

From: "Cyli" <cyli.visi.com>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:29:47 -0500



Horseradish.  Found the information when researching Wasabi, which, 

commercially, is mostly horseradish dyed green.  Someone found it 

just eliminates plaque. They wanted to make a toothpaste out of it, 

but horseradish is a bit of an acquired taste.  I've developed a 

taste for horseradish and I can't find any plaque in my mouth, but 

mine always tended to be very soft plaque anyway.  A mild horseradish 

sauce might be a way to start them.  



Sorry, I can't reference an URL for it, but Googling might find it.  

I do know I found it on the Web somewhere.



On 28 May 2003 at 19:35, Herbmednurse.aol.com wrote:



> I've got some little ones that have horrible plaque build up no matter what 

> we use in tooth paste, powder, or rinse.  Is there anything herbal that I could 

> prepare in a mouth rinse or tooth powder that would really help loosen the 

> plaque the prevent further build-up? TIA



From Herbmednurse.aol.com Thu May 29 02:50:33 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] plant ID

From: Herbmednurse.aol.com

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:50:33 EDT



I found an interesting plant in the woods - but cannot find a picture of it 

*anywhere*.  I got so excited because I thought it was goldenseal at first - 

but now I don't think so.

It grows in a sunny spot on the woods' floor, and is now about a foot above 

ground.  The single green stalk holds a 9 inch leaf that stands like an 

umbrella - the top being rather flat.  The whole leaf is circular on the perimeter, 

and is divided into 7 lobes, each lobe is then divided a bit into two.  one 

leaf - 7 divisions with 2 further divisions.  i hope that makes sense; it's 

really like one big leaf with further divisions that don't cut all the way to the 

stalk.

wish i could take a picture; I'm really puzzled and have never seen this 

before.  we have a loam soil here.

???



From polo.cameron.net Thu May 29 03:46:29 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] plant ID

From: "d.a." <polo.cameron.net>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:46:29 -0500



Your mystery plant sounds very much like mayapple (podophyllum)--but, of

course, it is always hard to ID a plant from mere text. You might get some

field manuals and compare the mayapple to your unknown.  The Eclectics

tended to use podophyllum much. I have a number of mayapples growing in my

woods and need to harvest some as well.



doug



----- Original Message ----- 

From: <Herbmednurse.aol.com>

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 6:50 PM

Subject: [herb] plant ID



> I found an interesting plant in the woods - but cannot find a picture of

it

> *anywhere*.  I got so excited because I thought it was goldenseal at

first -

> but now I don't think so.

> It grows in a sunny spot on the woods' floor, and is now about a foot

above

> ground.  The single green stalk holds a 9 inch leaf that stands like an

> umbrella - the top being rather flat.  The whole leaf is circular on the

perimeter,

>



From williamj.nac.net Thu May 29 06:47:21 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] plant ID

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 23:47:21 -0400



Sounds like American Mandrake.  Does it have a large waxy white flower?



Bill

----- Original Message -----

From: <Herbmednurse.aol.com>

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:50 PM

Subject: [herb] plant ID



.

> It grows in a sunny spot on the woods' floor, and is now about a foot

above

> ground.  The single green stalk holds a 9 inch leaf that stands like an

> umbrella - the top being rather flat.  The whole leaf is circular on the

perimeter,

> and is divided into 7 lobes,



From hetta.spamcop.net Thu May 29 08:30:20 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] plant ID

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:30:20 +0300



Herbmednurse.aol.com wrote:



> It grows in a sunny spot on the woods' floor, and is now about a foot above

> ground.  The single green stalk holds a 9 inch leaf that stands like an

> umbrella - the top being rather flat.  The whole leaf is circular on the

> perimeter, and is divided into 7 lobes, each lobe is then divided a bit



American Mandrake, Podophyllum sp. The fruit is edible.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From Herbmednurse.aol.com Sat May 31 00:53:09 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] plant ID

From: Herbmednurse.aol.com

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:53:09 EDT



In a message dated 5/29/03 12:35:58 AM, polo.cameron.net writes:



<< Your mystery plant sounds very much like mayapple (podophyllum)--but, of



course, it is always hard to ID a plant from mere text. You might get some



field manuals and compare the mayapple to your unknown. >>



it *may* be mayapple.  i have about half a dozen field guides with great 

pictures - but none that really seem to match this plant.

there are no flowers or fruit on it - yet, at least - mayapple sounds to be 

the most logical ID for now.

much thanks!



From drkelly.icdc.com Thu May 29 07:39:02 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] ABC codes for herbalists and other alternative health

	providers, etc.

From: "L Kelly" <drkelly.icdc.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 00:39:02 -0400



Today  5/29 is the last day to apply for status to register to bill

insurance companies with "ABC procedure codes" in U.S.  There is a

classification of "Herbal/Botanical Therapist" listed on the application

form as well as other titles in alternative medicine.



Don't know much about it; just heard about it over a week ago.  Get more

information from this site:



http://www.alternativelink.com/ali/home/



Seems that U.S. is looking at alternative healing and insurance and billing

and wants to incorporate alternatives with allopathic.....(maybe........

that's what they said; don't know whether to believe them but I signed up.)

LK



From drkelly.icdc.com Thu May 29 07:43:44 2003

To: "Herb List" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Addendem to ABC's........

From: "L Kelly" <drkelly.icdc.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 00:43:44 -0400



--> 5. Letter to Practitioners From Alternative Link



May 21, 2003



Dear Practitioner,



This letter is 1) to remind you of the cutoff date for securing rights to

use ABC codes; 2) to let you know that leading healthcare organizations are

planning to adopt ABC codes; and 3) to help you begin to incorporate ABC

codes into your practice. Please go to http://www.alternativelink.com

immediately to secure your rights to use ABC codes.  If you do not register

by May 29, 2003, you will lose your rights to use the codes under HIPAA.

Registration is free at http://www.alternativelink.com  and carries no

obligations.



As you may know, earlier this year, the U.S. Department of Health and Human

Services (HHS) authorized commercial use and evaluation of ABC codes under

the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA).  HHS

extended its original code user/evaluator registration deadline to May 29,

2003, so "trading partners" of prior registrants could also register, and so

HHS could determine who had authorization to use ABC codes and who did not.



Because of the prompt action of practitioners who registered before the

original HHS cutoff date, hundreds of industry-leading organizations have

now registered as well.  Those now positioned to use and evaluate ABC codes

under HIPAA include:

 top 20 and other commercial health plans;

 leading Medicare Plus Choice, Medicaid and military health plans;

 healthcare providers, such as hospital systems, subacute care facilities,

preferred provider organizations and independent practice associations;

 administrative and claims-related businesses;

 fully and self-insured employers;

 academic institutions with integrative healthcare programs; and

 software developers in both the healthcare and automotive insurance

industries.



Since more than 10,000 organizations and practitioners have already secured

their rights to adopt ABC codes and are now looking for potential trading

partners, you now have an opportunity to develop business relationships with

these registrants and begin to incorporate the codes into your practice.

Again, to do so, please go to www.alternativelink.com immediately and follow

the relevant registration instructions. You will find helpful background

information and code set implementation resources on the site, as well.



Once you have registered, please forward this message to all your

colleagues, so they, too, can meet the government deadline and have rights

to use the codes. Remember, registration for ABC codes is complimentary (no

charge) and non-obligatory.



We look forward to supporting your continuing success and welcome your

questions, comments and/or suggestions at

userregistration.alternativelink.com.



Sincerely,



Connie Koshewa, CPM, MPH

Director of Practitioner Relations and Code Development



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Thu May 29 15:40:12 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Turmeric

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:40:12 -0400



> ).> >

> > Thank you--do you use supermarket turmeric or

> > something else?  I believe not everyone feels it's a

> > very effective form.



I use bulk certified organic turmeric- bright orange and wonderful aroma(if

you like turmeric!) I cook with it and occasionally put it in caps...

Turmeric, and ginger, are heavily treated with fungicides- choose organic!



Michelle



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 29 16:30:21 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] plant ID-mayapple

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:30:21 -0400



> > It grows in a sunny spot on the woods' floor, and is now about a foot 

>above

> > ground.  The single green stalk holds a 9 inch leaf that stands like an

> > umbrella - the top being rather flat.  The whole leaf is circular on the

> > perimeter, and is divided into 7 lobes, each lobe is then divided a bit

>

>American Mandrake, Podophyllum sp. The fruit is edible.



The root was used as an alterative, but is VERY STRONG and has the high 

likely hood of TOXICITY. Mayapple makes Poke look tame.  Extracts have been 

shown to reduce cell division, which accounts for its use in cancer formulas 

by the eclectics, and also indicates why it should never be used during 

pregnancy.



I've always shied away from it... when you're dealing with plants that are 

so strong its best to learn about their use from someone whose used them 

first hand.  At any rate, its DEFINITELY not a plant for a beginner, or even 

intermediate herbalist.



From hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu Thu May 29 18:05:57 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Ornamentals, wasabi, etc.

From: hkobayas <hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:05:57 -0500



<Went to this amazing nursery out near Ann Arbor>



Arrowhead Alpines?



<as an example, the Black Cohosh was darker tinted than "natural" and bred so 

the racame... raceme... how do you spell this? so the flowering stalk would be 

shorter.>



Raceme. Probably, black cohosh isn't bred for the trait per se. I am merely 

guessing, but it is likely a selection. To me, breeding is more elaborate 

effort. Evevrybody can select a plant from a given population.



<Anybody know how this tinckering might affect the medicinal virtues?>



I asked the same question here about ornamental varieties of Echinacea. 

Somebody said she used them like ordinary ones. Unless plants are highly bred 

for a specific trait because some other unrelated traits can be lost during 

the breeding process. Have you ever notice cut flower varieties of carnation 

and sweet pea don't smell much any more?



However, I did read the quality of Camellia (C. japonica) oil from ornamental 

cultivars was inferior to ones from wild types. I am not sure how inferior or 

what is considered to be inferior in this case, though.



So I guess it really depends.



<Horseradish. Found the information when researching Wasabi, which, 

commercially, is mostly horseradish dyed green.>



Depends. There are more or less authentic ones, but they aren't cheap. Also 

there are two types of wasabi cultivars. One is oka wasabi (field wasabi) and 

mizu wasabi (water wasabi). The latter is considered to be better/superior, 

but the former is likely used for wasabi paste.



Hideka



From polo.cameron.net Thu May 29 19:16:04 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Rhus Toxicodendron 

From: "d.a." <polo.cameron.net>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:16:04 -0500



Just curious, any of you ever been brave enough out there to experiment with

Rhus Toxicodendron as a tincture?



doug



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 29 19:44:43 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Rhus Toxicodendron

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:44:43 -0400



>Just curious, any of you ever been brave enough out there to experiment 

>with

>Rhus Toxicodendron as a tincture?



every year I ponder this... and wimp out.  I LOVE Poison Ivy... even have a 

poison Ivy photo album, with pictures of the little sweetie in all of her 

varied guises.  But, alas, when it comes down to it, ~I'd~ have to be the 

first person to try it, and... well, isn't it obvious?



From polo.cameron.net Thu May 29 20:03:44 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Rhus Toxicodendron

From: "d.a." <polo.cameron.net>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:03:44 -0500



Jim,



    My dilemma, too! I don't particularly love poison ivy as a plant, but I

am fascinated with its medicinal attributes so valued by the Eclectics.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Should I or shouldn't I?



doug



----- Original Message ----- 

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

> every year I ponder this... and wimp out.  I LOVE Poison Ivy... even have

a

> poison Ivy photo album, with pictures of the little sweetie in all of her

> varied guises.  But, alas, when it comes down to it, ~I'd~ have to be the

> first person to try it, and... well, isn't it obvious?



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Thu May 29 20:32:25 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Rhus Toxicodendron

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:32:25 -0400



>     My dilemma, too! I don't particularly love poison ivy as a plant, but 

>I

>am fascinated with its medicinal attributes so valued by the Eclectics.

>Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Should I or shouldn't I?

>

>doug



Go for it!!!



Then let me know how it works out... he he...



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Thu May 29 20:21:35 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Rhus Toxicodendron/Conium

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:21:35 -0400



.  I LOVE Poison Ivy... even have a

> poison Ivy photo album, with pictures of the little sweetie in all of her

> varied guises.



He he... Thats funny...she is pretty clever...I dont seem to get Poison Ivy

rash , but my kids and husband do...so I am pulling her up from our yard-

leaving her to wander free in the forest...I did get a little overwhelmed

but then I thought- this is a plant! I love plants!- what does this one have

to teach me?



I had a similar experience a few years ago with Poison Hemlock- We were

renting a house in California where someone had let it go to seed and had

put it in the compost pile....well, i spread compost on the garden plot and

there were little Conium sprouts everywhere...Now I ~really~ know what that

plant looks and smells like...



Michelle



From hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu Thu May 29 20:29:24 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Correction

From: hkobayas <hkobayas.students.uiuc.edu>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:29:24 -0500



I relalized a part of my previous post was illegible to understand.



<Unless plants are highly bred for a specific trait because some other 

unrelated traits can be lost during the breeding process.>



Unless plants are highly bred for a specific trait(s), they likely retain  

features/characteristics that are not "related" to the strait a breeder is 

after. However, it can be easily lost during extensive breeding. Sometimes, 

breeders are unconsciouslly selecting against some traits because of the 

linkage, gene interactions, etc.



Hideka



From OakCamp2.aol.com Thu May 29 21:24:44 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Re: Conium

From: OakCamp2.aol.com

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 14:24:44 EDT



In a message dated 5/29/2003 12:21:52 PM Central Standard Time, 

lakshmi.kingcon.com writes:



> well, i spread compost on the garden plot and

> there were little Conium sprouts everywhere...Now I ~really~ know what that

> plant looks and smells like...

> 



I have been watching a plant in my flower bed for 2 years now.  I have tried 

to positively id it, but have been unsuccessful so far.  It is either poson 

hemlock or sweet cicely.  I know that if it can't be id'd then I should prolly 

just get it out of there for safety's sake, but i'm too intrigued with it to 

give up just yet.  The thing that has me puzzled is that the stem is >entirely 

purple and smooth<.  The leaves are definately sweet cicely, as are the 

flowers.  The leaf smelled like anise early on in the spring but now have lost that 

scent.  Any clues??  Do you need more physical information?? I'd be happy to 

give more detailed morphology.  Help!



Barb Birkinbine

Oak Camp Herb Farm



From polo.cameron.net Thu May 29 22:23:17 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Conium

From: "d.a." <polo.cameron.net>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 14:23:17 -0500



I grow Conium maculatum and it has a very distinctive splotched red purple

stem. These spots are quite obvious and are not found on any other plant

(water hemlock, perhaps the exception), I have come in contact with in my

area. I understand that the water hemlock plant also has purple markings,

but it seems to be characteristically, less spotted and more streaked. At

any rate these two seem to have the distinctive stem markings.



doug



----- Original Message ----- >

> I have been watching a plant in my flower bed for 2 years now.  I have

tried

> to positively id it, but have been unsuccessful so far.  It is either

poson

> hemlock or sweet cicely.  I know that if it can't be id'd then I should

prolly

> just get it out of there for safety's sake, but i'm too intrigued with it

to

> give up just yet.  The thing that has me puzzled is that the stem is

>entirely

> purple and smooth<.  The leaves are definately sweet cicely, as are the

> flowers.  The leaf smelled like anise early on in the spring but now have

lost that

> scent.  Any clues??  Do you need more physical information?? I'd be happy

to

> give more detailed morphology.  Help!

>

> Barb Birkinbine



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Thu May 29 23:16:33 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Conium

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:16:33 -0400



The leaf smelled like anise early on in the spring but now have lost that

> scent.  Any clues??  Do you need more physical information?? I'd be happy

to

> give more detailed morphology.  Help!

>



Conium is stinky- downright offensive in my book- ew.



Cicely should be pleasant.



Michelle



From williamj.nac.net Thu May 29 23:45:47 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Conium

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:45:47 -0400



Only the young leaves of Sweet Cicely are pleasant.  The anise-like seeds

are delicious while fat and green up until they totally dry.  My Cicely gets

a reddish lower stem as it ages.  As the plant finishes flowering the leaves

get tough and lose the anise flavor and are downright grass-like in taste.

I don't think water hemlock looks like Sweet Cicely as a plant.  For one

Sweet Cicely generally is a single plan

t.  Hemlock grows with rhizomes that connect plants.  Cicely grows usually

from the seed as individual plants.



Bill----- Original

>

> The leaf smelled like anise early on in the spring but now have lost that

> > scent.  Any clues??  Do you need more physical information?? I'd be

happy

> to

> > give more detailed morphology.  Help!

> >

>

>



From OakCamp2.aol.com Fri May 30 00:34:36 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Conium

From: OakCamp2.aol.com

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:34:36 EDT



In a message dated 5/29/2003 2:37:42 PM Central Standard Time, 

polo.cameron.net writes:



> Conium maculatum and it has a very distinctive splotched red purple

> 



Right, that's the puzzling part, no splotches, no streaks, it is entirely 

purple, glossy purple on the upper parts and the lower stems actually look like a 

purple grape with the bloom still on it.  

The leaves are alternate and opposite, and hoary like sweet cicely.  They are 

compoundly divided into 3 parts, glossy green underneath.  The leaf axil also 

forms a sheath around the stem.  The flowers are white and formed in umbels 

of 5-7 flowers held well above the leaves. The stems holding the flowers 

gradually turn from purple to green and the umbel is all green. 

>Conium is stinky- downright offensive in my book- ew.



Cicely should be pleasant.<



The leaves don't smell bad (this said by a person who has fish emulsion still 

lingering on her fingertips-lol) they smell faintly of anise. 



Barb



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Fri May 30 00:48:36 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Conium

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:48:36 -0400



> > Conium maculatum and it has a very distinctive splotched red purple

> >

>

> Right, that's the puzzling part, no splotches, no streaks, it is entirely

> purple, glossy purple



Conium does not always have the streaks and/or spots- not necessarily a

distinguishing feature.



Michelle



From macphee.net1plus.com Fri May 30 05:19:46 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Conium

From: "Joanie" <macphee.net1plus.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:19:46 -0400



 Barbara, I do not remember where you live, so I really hesitate to guess

what you have, but just  in New England there at least 34 genera (and lots

more species) in the Apiaceae, or Umbelliferae growing wild, and 4 species

of sweet cicely...some without odor....though to check odor, scratch the

root...that is usually distinctive.  But not all species of sweet cicely

smell like anise, and I do not know all of the plants with that particular

odor.  This does not sound like anise or fennel, but there are probably

others that I am not familiar with.



Conium is usually splotchy, but another similar alien in new England is

Peucedanum palustre with a sometimes uniformly purplish stem.  But I do not

know of the odor.  Other than angelica, I cannot think of other purple

stemmed candidates offhand and am preparing for a class to teach in the

morning, so I can't look right now..and I need to find my glasses to read my

books to do that anyway.



Last year I had to wait until one plant in this family, that looked like a

cross between wild carrot (because of pedicels hanging from flowers) and

what you describe without purple or scent, though, went to seed in order to

identify it.  It was Aethusa, Fool's Parsley as I remember..but I could not

tell until I examined the seeds, with resembled miniature pumpkins in their

ribbing.  So....these plants are not easy.  If you lived in New England I

could probably identify it with more information and perhaps images...but if

you live in the west...sheesh.,.,you probably have plants that I am not

familiar with.



Anyway....that is first thing, I think...to put a location to this plant.

When I have more time I can see what other purple plants and anise scented

plants grow around here...am thinking you live in a C state.  Joanie



>   no splotches, no streaks, it is entirely

> purple, glossy purple on the upper parts and the lower stems actually look

like a

> purple grape with the bloom still on it.

> The leaves are alternate and opposite, and hoary like sweet cicely.  They

are

> compoundly divided into 3 parts, glossy green underneath.  The leaf axil

also

> forms a sheath around the stem.  The flowers are white and formed in

umbels

> of 5-7 flowers held well above the leaves. The stems holding the flowers

> gradually turn from purple to green and the umbel is all green.

> >Conium is stinky- downright offensive in my book- ew.

>

> Cicely should be pleasant.<

>

>

> The leaves don't smell bad (this said by a person who has fish emulsion

still

> lingering on her fingertips-lol) they smell faintly of anise.

>

> Barb



From OakCamp2.aol.com Fri May 30 16:00:47 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Re: Conium

From: OakCamp2.aol.com

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:00:47 EDT



In a message dated 5/29/2003 4:48:41 PM Central Standard Time, 

lakshmi.kingcon.com writes:



> Conium does not always have the streaks and/or spots- not necessarily a

> distinguishing feature.

> 



Thanks, everyone for all for your thoughts.  I think I will see if someone 

from the botany department would like to key this plant. Joanie, I live in 

Wisconsin, so it is possible for any of the Umbelliferae we discussed to be located 

here.  The mystery will continue for a while.  I'll let you all know if I get 

it positively id'd.

Thanks again,

Barb



From Avam57.aol.com Fri May 30 00:32:28 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] ABC codes for herbalists and other alternative health

	providers, e...

From: Avam57.aol.com

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:32:28 EDT



Do you really think it a good idea to give one's social sec # and/or tax id 

on the internet, over a non secure site? I have concerns about this "last 

chance" request to sign up for "ABC inclusion"??>!! Anna in Spokane



From drkelly.icdc.com Fri May 30 05:50:21 2003

To: <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] ABC...........

From: "L Kelly" <drkelly.icdc.com>

Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:50:21 -0400



<Do you really think it a good idea to give one's social sec # and/or tax id

on the internet, over a non secure site? I have concerns about this "last

chance" request to sign up for "ABC inclusion"?>



If I remember correctly, they also listed a phone number for applications on

the website.  Can be checked with NIH, too.



Received this announcement through a chiropractic organization.  Heard about

it before but only a little through chiro organizations and mailing lists.



Sent announcement to the herb list at the last moment because that is when I

read from the application, as I filled it in, that herbalists could be

included as providers.                 LK



From hetta.spamcop.net Fri May 30 09:28:38 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] ABC...........

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:28:38 +0300



L Kelly wrote:

> >Do you really think it a good idea to give one's social sec # and/or tax

> >id on the internet, over a non secure site? I have concerns about this

> >"last chance" request to sign up for "ABC inclusion"?

>

> If I remember correctly, they also listed a phone number for applications

> on the website.  Can be checked with NIH, too.



I'm not all that certain that serving insurable service is good for 

herbalists. Previously independent MDs who signed up for insurance found out 

that their income dropped 20+ % because of clauses all over the insurance 

contracts ("we pay only so much for this") ("we pay this only if you have 

also done this") and so on, while, for the same reason, their administration 

costs went over the roof.



Whatever.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Fri May 30 19:06:55 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:06:55 -0500



Does anyone have any experience making an extract of jewelweed for

poison Ivy?  I plan to make some, but I seem to remember reading

somewhere that it needs some kind of special preparation.  Any

suggestions?



Thanks,

Erica



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Fri May 30 19:30:37 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:30:37 -0400



>Does anyone have any experience making an extract of jewelweed for

>poison Ivy?  I plan to make some, but I seem to remember reading

>somewhere that it needs some kind of special preparation.  Any

>suggestions?



Personally, I feel that fresh jewelweed applied as a poultice for a 

sustained period of time works far better than any preparation of it.  As 

the plants grow larger, the leaves can be stripped off and used immediately, 

and the succulent stalks can be stored in the refridgerator vegetable drawer 

like celery.  Adding a bit of fresh Plantain leaves and Self Heal to the 

poultice helps as well, especially if scratching has infected the rash.



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Fri May 30 21:27:08 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:27:08 -0500



>>Personally, I feel that fresh jewelweed applied as a poultice for a 

sustained period of time works far better than any preparation of it.<<



I agree!  However, I need to prepare this for possible long term

storage.  I have saved the tea of the fresh plant as ice cubes before,

but I'm looking for something I can store.



Thanks,

Erica



From williamj.nac.net Fri May 30 22:33:09 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: "Bill Jacobson" <williamj.nac.net>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:33:09 -0400



The usual way of keeping some Jewel Weed for Poison Ivy is to mush it up in

a blender with some water and pour it into an ice-cube tray and freeze.

Then empty the cubes into a bag and keep them in your freezer.  When you

need some just thaw a cube.



Bill



From elementalclay.webtv.net Fri May 30 21:51:07 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: RE: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: elementalclay.webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:51:07 -0500 (CDT)



Erica,

  I put the jewelweed in the blender with acv and gave it a whirl, then

let it sit a week or so, strained and put it in the fridge.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com

Look not for Wealth in the Glitter of Gold

      But in your Grandmother's Smile



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Sat May 31 04:54:42 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:54:42 -0500



>> I put the jewelweed in the blender with acv and gave it a whirl<<



Hi Roxanne!  Thanks...what is acv?



Erica



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Sat May 31 04:57:08 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:57:08 -0500



>>Hi Roxanne!  Thanks...what is acv?<<



Ah!  Nevermind...apple cider vinegar!



Erica



From herbgatherer.hotmail.com Fri May 30 23:02:17 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: "pamela quayle" <herbgatherer.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:02:17 -0400



> Does anyone have any experience making an extract of jewelweed for

> poison Ivy?  I plan to make some, but I seem to remember reading

> somewhere that it needs some kind of special preparation.  Any

> suggestions?



I agree with the fresh use suggestions.  However I do make an oil of the

jewelweed, mix it with plantain and chickweed oil and make those into a

salve with a little tea tree oil added.  I carry this with me for those

times I get into poison ivy and there is no jewelweed around.  It seems to

stop the rash if used prior to exposure or just after - also when the first

itch starts.  I do not use it on poison ivy that has started to get weepy.

I call this Itch Relief and it works great on bug bites, the red

inflammation I sometimes get from brushing inner arms against plants and

more.



Pamela



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Sat May 31 04:53:40 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:53:40 -0500



>>However I do make an oil of the jewelweed, mix it with plantain and

chickweed oil<<



I was thinking of something like this too!  Thanks for your thoughts and

experience.



Be well,

Erica



From elementalclay.webtv.net Sat May 31 05:03:40 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: RE: [herb] Jewelweed Extract

From: elementalclay.webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 21:03:40 -0500 (CDT)



"jewelweed in blender with acv"

Erica, what is acv?

  Hi Erica,

  Sorry 'bout that.  ACV is apple cider vinegar.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com



From ngbard.juno.com Fri May 30 23:08:56 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] Herbs for relieving diarrhea

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:08:56 -0400



Dear list members,



ARe there any herbs for relieving diarrhea.  Either I read elsewhere or

somebody mentioned ginger, maybe?

Thanks,

Marcia



From elementalclay.webtv.net Fri May 30 23:25:48 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbs for relieving diarrhea

From: elementalclay.webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:25:48 -0500 (CDT)



Hi Ginger,

  It depends on the cause of the diarrhea but I use ground cinnamon here

with good results for most cases.  We mix a scant tsp in a cup of hot

coffee or tea and drink it down.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com



From SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net Fri May 30 22:32:50 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbs for relieving diarrhea

From: "Robert Linde" <SmallShipCruises.worldnet.att.net>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:32:50 -0300



fennel can be useful as well

----- Original Message -----

From: "Roxanne Brown" <elementalclay.webtv.net>

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 5:25 PM

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbs for relieving diarrhea



Hi Ginger



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Sat May 31 00:23:47 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbs for relieving diarrhea

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:23:47 -0400



>   It depends on the cause of the diarrhea but I use ground cinnamon here



Cause is super important... you don't want to work against the body if you 

need to get stuff out of you.  That said, rose family astringents work 

nicely.  Strawberry leaf is very gentle, suitable for babies, raspberry leaf 

is stronger, raspberry root is stronger, and blackberry root is stronger 

still.



Cranebill (wild geranium) works quite well, too.



From elementalclay.webtv.net Sat May 31 01:05:11 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbs for relieving diarrhea

From: elementalclay.webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:05:11 -0500 (CDT)



Has anyone tried oak galls, the small ones the size of a marble that

develop on the twigs for diarrhea?

  I have the galls but haven't done anything with them.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com



From ngbard.juno.com Sat May 31 19:07:49 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbs for relieving diarrhea

From: Marcia Grossbard <ngbard.juno.com>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:07:49 -0400



Thank you all for your help.

Marcia

---



From Herbmednurse.aol.com Sat May 31 01:25:15 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] shepherd's purse

From: Herbmednurse.aol.com

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:25:15 EDT



we've got shepherd's purse absolutely everywhere.  the midwives in our area 

use a lot of it in tincture form at births.  i understand that the tincture has 

a short shelf-life.

again, i have conflicting information as to how to tincture it: fresh or 

dried.  

I tried a fresh tincture (in Greg Tilford's book) but am having great 

difficulty keeping it in the ratio he recommends without a lot of the herb being 

above the alcohol - 

is there a significant difference between fresh and dried use in tinctures?

tia!



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Sat May 31 02:02:30 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] shepherd's purse

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:02:30 -0400



> we've got shepherd's purse absolutely everywhere.  > again, i have

conflicting information as to how to tincture it: fresh or

> dried.



Shepherds Purse is best tinctured fresh for its hemostatic

properties...midwives like it fresh!



Michelle



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Sat May 31 02:02:59 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] shepherd's purse

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:02:59 -0500



What do the midwives use the shepherd's purse for exactly?  Afterbirth?

Linda S.



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Sat May 31 02:53:36 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] shepherd's purse

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:53:36 -0400



> What do the midwives use the shepherd's purse for exactly?  Afterbirth?



Postpartum Hemmorhage.



Michelle



From hetta.spamcop.net Sat May 31 10:05:02 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] shepherd's purse

From: Henriette Kress <hetta.spamcop.net>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:05:02 +0300



Herbmednurse.aol.com wrote:



> we've got shepherd's purse absolutely everywhere. 



> again, i have conflicting information as to how to tincture it: fresh or

> dried.



You _can_ tincture Capsella dried, but it has to be recently dried. The dried 

herb is even shorter-lived than the tincture. What I do is, dry it, chop it 

up, keep a small part in a jar in the cupboard, keep the rest in a jar in the 

freezer. And tincture some - but I usually tincture Capsella fresh.



> is there a significant difference between fresh and dried use in tinctures?

> tia!



Not if you adjust alcohol %.



Henriette



-- 

Henriette Kress, AHG                      Helsinki, Finland

Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



From cmaria.triton.net Sat May 31 04:02:57 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] diarrhea

From: Christa-Maria <cmaria.triton.net>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:02:57 -0500



Blackberry anything, roots, tea from leaves, fruit..

C-M



From jab.barron-net.fsnet.co.uk Sat May 31 04:57:38 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: "Jeremy Barron" <jab.barron-net.fsnet.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 02:57:38 +0100



Can anyone recommend herbs suitable for use as eye lotions for dry/tired 

eyes? I read somewhere, possibly in James Duke's Green Pharmacy that 

taking evening primrose oil could be beneficial, especially for contact 

lens wearers of which I'm one.



Thanks



Jeremy



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Sat May 31 04:58:55 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:58:55 -0500



>>Can anyone recommend herbs suitable for use as eye lotions for

dry/tired eyes? <<



Hi Jeremy,



I have read the violet blossoms infused in oil work well but haven't

tried them yet.  I have some infusing right now and plan to make a salve

soon.



Erica



From mterry.snet.net Sat May 31 06:05:55 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: May Terry <mterry.snet.net>

Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:05:55 -0700 (PDT)



Jeremy Barron <jab.barron-net.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:



Can anyone recommend herbs suitable for use as eye

lotions for dry/tired eyes? I read somewhere, possibly

in James Duke's Green Pharmacy that taking evening

primrose oil could be beneficial, especially for

contact lens wearers of which I'm one.



My optometrist swears by flaxseed oil for dry eye.  He

noticed mine seemed less dry, and asked if I had

started taking it; I told him no, but that I had

started taking evening primrose oil recently for a

different reason.  He felt that made sense, and

recommended that I continue.



Other than that, I always use just saline in my eyes.



May



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Sat May 31 16:24:28 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 08:24:28 -0500



For use inside the eye, I have used a chickweed tincture diluted with

witch hazel and distilled water and it has always worked to clear

redness.  I started using it when I had a plugged tear duct and keep it

around for whenever I get dust, dirt or irritants in my eyes.



Of course when I mentioned the violet blossom oil, I was referring to

use around the eye!



Erica



From multiflorum.hotmail.com Sat May 31 17:10:14 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:10:14 -0400



>Can anyone recommend herbs suitable for use as eye lotions for dry/tired 

>eyes? I read somewhere, possibly in James Duke's Green Pharmacy that taking 

>evening primrose oil could be beneficial, especially for contact lens 

>wearers of which I'm one.



Lotion?  I wouldn't use an oil base on the eyes, but getting oil almost 

always helps us dry people.  ...and remember, freshly ground flax seed works 

just as well as flax seed oil, keeps better (grind before using or freeze 

them), and costs less.  Its also a tasty condiment for oatmeal (thanks 

joyce!).



I've only tried this once, and it was really nice.  If you live near 

sassafras, collect some of the pith, and make a lukewarm infusion from it.  

Strain well, and use as an eyewash... ahh....



Curious, while talking about eyewashes... I've made Eyebright eyewashes in 

the past, and seen really amazing results for cunjuctivitits, purulent 

infections resulting from face to concrete collisions, and even in helping 

out a dog who had a bunch of porcupine quills removed from his eyeball 

(OWWW!!!!).  I know Goldenseal was used in conjuction with eyebright in 

eyewashes, but I've never been able to get the guts to use it, for fear that 

it'd stain the whites of the eyes and the person would have to go through 

the rest of their life saying, "No, I don't have jaundice..."



Anybody used it?



From sekhmet.netins.net Sat May 31 17:23:02 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: "Rev. Christina Paul" <sekhmet.netins.net>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:23:02 -0500



On Sat, 31 May 2003 10:10:14 -0400

  "jim mcdonald" <multiflorum.hotmail.com> wrote:

>  I know Goldenseal was used in 

>conjuction with eyebright in eyewashes, but I've never 

>been able to get the guts to use it, for fear that it'd 

>stain the whites of the eyes and the person would have to 

>go through the rest of their life saying, "No, I don't 

>have jaundice..."

>

>Anybody used it?



I have, Jim. I had a lovely case of conjunctivitis from a 

bad batch of make up and used the infusion of goldenseal 

root and eyebright. I used a piece of the whole root, 

rather than the powder. The powder, I would think would be 

a bit too gritty.  (Anyone do it that way?)  This 

infusion, used several times a day as an eyewash, cleared 

the condition up in a few days. And to answer your 

question, no, it didn't turn the whites of my eyes yellow 

or make me look jaundiced.  ;-)



Christina 



From polo.cameron.net Sat May 31 19:05:32 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: "d.a." <polo.cameron.net>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:05:32 -0500



I am a big believer in and have used the Dr. Christopher eye formula of

eyebright, red raspberry leave, goldenseal, and CAYENNE. Yeah, it

stings,,,,,,but it stings so good (:>)! Just the other night my nephew  came

in my house after mowing down some hay with his eyes itching and swelling. I

filled an eye cup with physiological saline and a few drops of this formula

and he was relieved in no time.



Dr. Christopher has sworn that this formula can do a number of good things

for the eye, even strengthening them.



doug



From lakshmi.kingcon.com Sat May 31 20:34:40 2003

To: "Herb" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: "Michelle Morton-niyama" <lakshmi.kingcon.com>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 13:34:40 -0400



I know Goldenseal was used in conjuction with eyebright in

> eyewashes, but I've never been able to get the guts to use it, for fear

that

> it'd stain the whites of the eyes and the person would have to go through

> the rest of their life saying, "No, I don't have jaundice..."

>

> Anybody used it?

>



Nope- I use Calendula faithfully with excellent results...



Michelle



From clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com Sat May 31 21:29:04 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Re: [herb] Herbal Eye Lotions

From: "Linda Shipley" <clarinetgirl72.hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 13:29:04 -0500



I use a chamomile tea in eye drop form for eye wash, very weak.

Linda



From joycew.triton.net Sat May 31 07:45:57 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] jewelweed

From: joycew.triton.net

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 00:45:57 -0400 (EDT)



>However I do make an oil of the jewelweed, mix it with plantain and >chickweed oil and make those into a salve with a little tea tree oil >added. 



I used to make a jewelweed salve also - before I realized urioshol (sp?) is soluble in both alcohol and oil - so when you spread on jewelweed in a slave, you are providing a medium that can spread the poison ivy.  



>I carry this with me for those times I get into poison ivy and there >is no jewelweed around. It seems to stop the rash if used prior to >exposure or just after - also when the first itch starts.



For most people, the salve works to stop the spread of P.I. - probably because of jewelweeds ability to bind to the skin cell receptors before the urioshol does.  However, in those who are very sensitive to P.I. - a jewelweed salve can make it worse... I've seen it happen.



So when no freezer space is available, to store jewelweed ice cubes, I make a thick jewelweed and organic apple cider (with mother) milkshake.  I let it sit in the sun a few days to ferment to a beautiful mellow orange color.  Strain and bottle right away - don't let it sit around until you get to it.  I've a bottle in my root cellar that is about 5 years old - and just used it on some P.I. my sons got into last week - still works.    



Have made it fermented and unfermented.  Fermented seems to work better, and certainly stores better as you are giving a chance for the mother vinegar to grow some more and increase acidity and thus shelf life.  



Jewelweed in alcohol is a great long term mold/mildew killer btw

peace

JoyceW



I carry this with me for those

times I get into poison ivy and there is no jewelweed around. It seems to

stop the rash if used prior to exposure or just after - also when the first

itch starts. I do not use it on poison ivy that has started to get weepy.



From earthmedicine.mindspring.com Sat May 31 16:21:22 2003

To: "'Herb'" <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: RE: [herb] jewelweed

From: "Erica" <earthmedicine.mindspring.com>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 08:21:22 -0500



>>urioshol (sp?) is soluble in both alcohol and oil<<



 

This, I think is what I had read in the past but couldn't remember.

What do you think about a glycerin vs. apple cider vinegar tincture?



Erica



From l_stilwell.hotmail.com Sat May 31 09:40:31 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: [herb] powdering bilberry leaves

From: "Lloyd Stilwell" <l_stilwell.hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 01:40:31 -0500



This morning I was trying to grind up bilberry leaves in a morter and pestle 

in order to put them into capsules but but all I managed to make was a pile 

of extremely uncooperative fibers. So now I know how NOT to go about it. 

What is a better way? -Lloyd



From elementalclay.webtv.net Sat May 31 09:53:59 2003

To: herb.lists.ibiblio.org (Herb)

Subject: Re: [herb] powdering bilberry leaves

From: elementalclay.webtv.net (Roxanne Brown)

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 01:53:59 -0500 (CDT)



Lloyd,

  I have given up my mortar and pestle for any light weight items such

as leaf.  I use a $20 electric coffee grinder for most herbs.  If you

don't have a coffee grinder throw them in a blender and pulverize.

  As warranted, I will use an electric chopper first and then the coffee

grinder like before I roast dandelion root.

  Larger fibers like leaf ribs can be removed  by rubbing herbs thru a

course tea strainer to make finer plant material to put in capsules.

Roxanne



http://www.elementalgallery.com



From joanr.shaw.ca Sat May 31 21:12:20 2003

To: Herb <herb.lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [herb] powdering bilberry leaves

From: Joan <joanr.shaw.ca>

Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:12:20 -0700



On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 11:53  PM, Roxanne Brown wrote:

>

>   Larger fibers like leaf ribs can be removed  by rubbing herbs thru a

> course tea strainer to make finer plant material to put in capsules.



I was at a workshop with Susun Weed yesterday.  She said that powdered 

herbs in capsules are not the way to go.  She said that when you eat 

the whole plant, it goes through some digestive processes which kills 

or breaks down the parts of the herbs that are toxic or not good for 

you( and that there is always something that would not be good for you 

in most herbs).  When you take a capsule with powdered herbs, all those 

constituents are still in there when it will probably hit your 

intestinal tract and be  digested.  I don't have a clue whether she is 

right or not.  Anyone care to comment on this??

Joan

My Country Garden

http://www.mycountrygarden.net





